THough you be never so serious, I must breake in upon you, I am in paine till I have propagated our laughter to you, which hath held us ever since last Scruple-Thursday. You know the Scruple-Office, where the doub­ting Sisters are carryed with zeale to joyne in a Reformation with the Resolving Brethren, and burdened consciences come to lay downe their loads, and goe away with others; where the Resolvers take away the doubts, and gain the Doub­ters to themselves: whither seeing all flock that know nothing but to doubt, amongst these I presum'd to make one in the Crowd. Here I found the doubting Brethren turn'd the Resolvers, and those that held the Chaire, uncertaine in their Resolutions, and as doubt­full [Page 2]as the Oracles of Old; as those that beleeve not themselves, what they would have others beleeve. They have proceeded thus farre in the Reformation, and the Resolutions of Doubts, that they have brought all to that petty Scruple, Whether Christ hath any Church, a­ny Ministry, since the Apostles. Or, granting a Church to Christ, but none to them (Dato, sed non Concesso; Yerbery will allow no more.) They disputed this with them, Whether they did not more usurpe on the Title of Ministers in the Church of Christ, then themselves on the Office, in Preaching? or (in their owne phrase) in hinting truths, holding forth lights, making out Gospell-Revelations, exer­cising their Guifts and Lungs, and in Love edifying the Church (or if Yerbery will better admit the Tearme) Pro­pagating the faithfull? Sir, Will you receive the Con­ference, as I had it in a throng and crowded up, or are you at leisure to heare at large all Ob's and Sol's? I'le ven­ture on the Taske, upon the condition, you will take the Dialogue not for one of my penning, or one translated out of Lucians Jupiter Tragaed: but (what you put upon me) my relating. And from the impertinent circumstan­ces, (if you can beare them) you will most please your selfe, to see the whole Mannage, the Logick, the Deter­mination and Result of all the Disputes proceed from those who wore their Arguments by their sides, and yet us'd the others weapons, [...]he chiefe Per­ [...]s of the Con­ [...]rence. to beat them withall.

'Twas after three of the clock when first there appea­red lookes frighted with Visions and Revelations, as if they had fasted and prayd for Mediums, and yet they seem'd rather possess'd then inspird; they call themselves Spirituall, but the Crowd begins to complaine of the Big-bon'd Spirits, after them drop in dejected visages, [Page 3]sentenced fore-heads, that by their posture appear'd to be Seekers, and in the Van of the Lifted and Guifted men, one presseth foremost towards the Tripodes; the crowd divides, and gives way, as Jordan to the Arke, or rather a cloud to a flash of Lightning, his name ask'd, whisper'd aloud, Yerbery. What is he?The Doubting Brethren or Scruplers. Yerbery.

Yerbery, The Champion of the Seekers, the Chaplain Errant, that makes not onely Sermons at all houres, but his Divinity too, like the first Artists, that found out the trade they profess'd. This, was hee ready to oppose, and to hold any thing.

Make way there:

Grimes, a Carpenter, the Deputy-Governour, who held [...] the Rule, and did not amisse governe (a­mongst such doughty Schoole-men) the Divinity Disputation.

Hewson, a Shoomaker, and Colonell, Prior Oppo­nent, a most Categoricall Disputant, yet so rude, that hee seem'd to understand others better then himselfe, that hee neither admitted Impertinen­cies, nor committed any; an admirably Guifted, or Jesuited Brother: Hee propos'd the Questions, en­forc'd their owne objections and Answers, recol­lected the Arguments on both sides, expos'd the others Reasons, if it were possible to more absur­dity, and weakenesse, then the Author. We won­der'd so much true Logick, and false English.

Under the Colonell many other Guifted Officers.

A Major, that had not the spirit of Syllogismes, but of contradiction: who, when hee saw that Logick fail'd him, defied humane Arts.

A Captaine, and a Captaine, that offer'd faire, to [Page 4]second them, but could not goe farre in Mediums, (they were not bred at the fencing Schoole) which the others were not asham'd to ask liberally, though they afforded sparingly.

To these still presse forward the crowd of Seekers, and put in ever and anon,The Resolvers or Scruple-Masters. as, the Interlocutor.

Roome, Roome. Enter at last the grave Scruple-Ma­sters.

Wilkinson, The Chaireman pro Tempore.

On the one hand,

Reynolds, the Oracle, with the hoarse and obscure voice.

On the other hand,

Harris, like Aaron and Hur on both sides Moses, to support his hands; Harris, that maintain'd his gra­vity by silence, and appear'd guifted better for Prayer, then Disputation.

At their side sate

Dr. Temple, the very Timocles in Lucian, that brought more Lungs and volubility, not much more Lo­gick then the other.

To back these, the other stood behind.

Cornish, that help'd to disturbe the Disputation once or twice, and speaking without Mediums, was de­scry'd, and sate downe againe.

Langley, the Mute, 'twas thought hee reserv'd his Re­solutions for the other Sexe.

Cheynel. Cheynel is now cal'd for; he is much miss'd, no confidence of victory without him, the onely man that could oppose frenzy to frenzy, and outvie their zeale with greater heate, fling about Texts, cast wildly, but in Moode and figure.

[Page 5]But will your patience hold out with this style? Now the heate is somewhat over, in a colder reflection, I be­gin to discover my selfe, like one of those, who being transported with mirth, would force others to be as mer­ry as themselves, while indeed they appeare rather mad. I will then give you the Discourse, without the Scene, which you will easily supply by your imagination. The Question first propos'd, and beat out into 8. or 9. more questions or Propositions; Whether the Ministery were committed to the hands of selected Persons? the Theses as­serted; 1. That Christ had a Church. 2. That Christ had all power and judgment given from God. 3. That he was a Prophet, a Priest, and a King. 4. That as a King he Ga­ther'd, Govern'd a Church. 5. That in this Church he ap­pointed some Ministers, &c. That was not the Question. And what meant the paper he read in, they knew not, though they knew, and would not dispute then all the Propositions. They came to shew their Guifts, not the hands they wrote. They came to have their doubts re­solved, These were truths they stood not on. Yerbery then rose up, cry'd downe againe. After an houres de­bate, what was the question, crying up, decrying, this, that, hinting, holding out, and making forth their minds, they fram'd the Question in tearmes which they impos'd to their owne advantage: Whether the esteemed Ministers of the Church of England had more Authority from Jesus Christ to preach in publike, then ordinary Guifted Christians. Here a double weakenesse on the other part, still to insist, and urge their owne Paper, as if they were not they, who have brought in Extempore Effusions throughout the whole service of God, and allow unpremeditated Preaching and praying (such as the Lay might imitate [Page 6]and now here challenge) but here allow onely set, and premeditated Disputes. I was again asham'd to see tearms impos'd to their adversaries advantage, and not so per­tinent to their doubt, which, while the Scruple-Ma­sters urge their owne Propositions, is still hinted to be; Whether it were lawfull for them, who were no Ministers to lay out Scripture in publike, and to undoe Chapters? Whe­ther it were lawfull for the Guifted Christians, or whether it were more lawfull for the esteemed Ministers? The Chaire­man riseth up, undertakes the Cause, but Mediums com­ming not readily, againe the Papers call'd in [...]; Why we come hither to have our Doubts resolv'd, 'tis strange you should tell better then our selves, what our doubts are. The Question was hinted on this occasi­on, viz. your biting and unbrotherly railing against this way of God, in building up one another. The Chair-man riseth up againe, and finding it reducible to one of his Propositions, offers againe at the Question, and reads his 5. Proposition with the Proofes; they admitted no rea­ding Divines, nor indirect proofes. Sol. Prove this; First the Negative, That 'tis not lawfull for the Guifted Christians: Secondly, the Affirmacive, That the esteemed Ministers of the Church of England are lawfully called by Iesus Christ to Preach.

The Negative first endeavoured by the Chaire-man, with a most indirect and confus'd proofe, as he mannag'd it, from the names and Titles, of Pastor, Steward, Em­bassadour, &c. and that confirm'd by Eph. 4.11. Christ gave some Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Teachers, there­fore not all. This was urg'd somewhat more volubly by Timocles, but with no stricter inference. To this the one­ly proofe for the Negative was answered severally; Th [...] [Page 7]the Text was not exclusive: There were othe [...]s mentioned in other places of Scripture given likewise, as Helps, and Go­vernments, (said the Deputy-Governour) That the Infe­rence could not extend to the Negative, Christ gave some Pastors, therefore none other might feed the Flock. That their Preaching did not inferre that there were not some Ministers beside them, that they did not preach with the Titles, Offici­ally, but Edifyingly. They did not Preach, but Teach, and that Christ gave some Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, &c. ex abundanti, to perfect the Saints, that the syllogisme might be return'd on them, Christ gave some Apostles, Evange­lists, Prophets, &c. but they were not that some Evangelists, or Prophets, therefore they were not to Preach: Now ex a­bundanti they urge on the contrary, that it is not onely not unlawfull (as yet it appear'd by all they could say against it) but our duty to improve our Guifts, to exhort, admonish, edify one another, by all the Texts sounding that way: First from the Context alleadg'd against them, Eph. 4.16. That the Members mutually grow up, and make ncrease of the body, unto the edifying of it selfe in love. That the mani­festation of the spirit is given to every one to profit withall, that they are to administer the Grace they have receiv'd, as good Stewards, that 1. Cor. 14. every one was to prophecy, that is, to speake to edification, exhortation, consolation, that there were many preach'd, Act. 8. that were no Evangelists, Apostles, Prophets, &c. and particularly Apollo, Act. 18.28. taught in the Synagogues that Jesus was the Messias, and yet no call'd Minister of the Gospell, it being not probable that he should be chosen by the Apostles to the Ministry, who yet knew nothing but the Baptisme of John, and was to be instructed by Priscilla and Aquilla his Wife. You already guesse the Answer: 'twas extraordinary. They prove it ordinary, since [Page 8]that is ordinary, which was common to all in the Church, as to prophesie, 1 Cor. 14. Belonged to every one. This being all then alleadg'd against the unlawfulnesse, and over­borne with a greater number of Texts that seem'd not onely to prove, but injoyn it as a duty. They Recollect all the Ob's and Sol's, and submit the Result to the judgement of the Spirituall.

For the Affirmative, now they urge them to prove their owne Calling lawfull, and according to the ap­pointment of Christ, and to justifie their owne Ministers of the Church of England, since they could not so easily disprove, as they did reprove the Lay Divines: Timocles stands up.

They which are qualified, which are approved, which are cal­led according to the mind of Christ, and set apart to the Gospel, are Ministers lawfully called according to the mind of Christ: But some Ministers of the Church of England are qualifi'd, &c.

They urg'd against All, and we expected hee should not at first have quitted our Church. But his proofe he stretch'd but to some: What need all this? Provo but one, they are call'd by Christ, we require no more. No: he claims the priviledge of Logick to take his owne choice and Or­der, (a new Priviledge, as any the Subject now as­sumes.)

First, Qualifi'd according to the mind of Christ, here the 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. are read for one Proposition, but some are thus qualifi'd, All, All, 'tis enough if some. This deny'd None, yes some thus Qualifi'd, Reynolds, Har­ris, Wilkinson. Upriseth Yerbery.

Not qualifi'd to the Text, because strikers, because they destroy [Page 9]the Communion of Saints, and because they inflict Tempo­rall punishments for Spirituall Weakenesses.

They destroy the Communion of Saints because they set up Parish Churches. Since Christ bid his Apostles goe, and Teach, no standing Ministers of Christs ord [...]ining.

To this, provok'd with zeale, R. Argues in stead of Answering.

They who have justifying faith and charity according to the Gospell, destroy not the Communion of Saints.

But some Ministers of the Church of England, meaning himselfe and those mith him.

The Seeker grants not that neither, For they who have not the Spirit equall to the Apostles even before they had the Guifts of the Spirit (who then could not beare the say­ing of Christ, and therefore far from Faith,) They that have not at all the guifts of the Spirit (there hee reads them, Prophecying Tongues, Miracles, asks which they challenge) could not pretend to Faith or Charity ac­cording to the Gospell.

'Tis againe answer'd, Guifts extraordinary and Gifts of the Spirit, either donum [...], or [...], This caus'd an out-cry, they came to be edifi'd, and yet they found the Guift of Tongues, they denyed.

To the Question againe.

Not strikers, Because Inflicters of Temporall punishment for Spirituall Weakenesses, because the Assembly approves of the Act of Parliament.

Here they call him back to the question, 'tis safer th [...]n Answering.

Not qualifi'd, Because covetous, because th [...]y take Tythes, they that take others goods, and returne nothing of value for it are Covetous.

[Page 10]Make the syllogisme out. They that take others goods, &c. Where's your Minor? Timocles, They that take others Goods: You make the Minor.

What's this to the lawfull Calling, to the Question? prove your Calling.

Timocles, The next is, they that are approv'd, pray ye let it be they that are call d. No, in order, They are ap­prov'd that are qualifi'd to the mind of Christ; This wee heard before, prove your Calling▪ Calling? Why thus: They that are approv'd according to the mind of Christ, are called according to the mind of Christ, but some Ministers of our Church, [...]ey are ap­ [...]ved vvho are [...]lified (as be­ [...].) &c. Col. Idem per Idem. Sir, pardon me, I know not your name. Your Argu­ment is this; We say you are not lawfull Ministers in the Church of England call [...]d by the mind of Christ, you re­ply, We are, and we are, and therefore we are. Is not this a Circle? I confesse it is, but you put me to it.

How then doe you prove your Calling lawfull. W. Why is there not a Presbytery now to ordaine Ministers? Timo­cles, your Calling is lawfull that is by the appoint­ment of the Magistrate. But who call'd that Presby­tery, who call'd you? so fearefull were they here to defend their owne Calling, lest they should seem to defend their owne Church, or name Bishops, that to wave the Answer R. stands up, and informes them what was a lawfull Calling. To a lawfull calling is re­quir'd in the persons call d the qualifications mentioned, Piety and Parts; in the calling the Inward and Outward Call: the Outward calling double: in a setled Church to be by the Ministers, the Presbytery, in an unsetled Church, as in times of Reformation, the extraordinary or (more properly) the universall way is by the whole Church, [Page 11]for to speake my sense and judgment, the ultimate and last Au­thority is resolv'd into the body of the whole Church. Col. What doe you meane by Church? All the faithfull, all the Christian People. What by the Church of En­gland? All the Christian People of this Nation, or King­dome, call it what you will.

Col. this then (if I mistake not) is the substance of your Speech, that the persons call'd are to be qualifi'd with sanctity and knowledge. We contend for none, but who are qualifi d and guifted, that the power of Calling those persons resides in the whole Church. None could plead better the Independents part. They require no more, but the power of making their Officers.

Thus have they at last dealt ingenuously, and being not able to maintaine by their new fundamentals, they yeelded up the Question. Either R. is very subtill, and by this state of the Question seekes to compound with the Independents, or else very simple, and hath un­awares betray'd himselfe with the Presbyterians. [It is either Reynolds the Fox, or Reynolds the Goose.] They need no Opponents in this Question, every one differing and opposing the other. W. stating the power of calling Ministers in the Presbyterie, winnes the Title of Pres­byterian from them all. Timocles concluding the same power that makes Church-Wardens, and Constables, to appoint and call Ministers, comes of an Erastian. R. To be receiv'd into the Congregation of the Independents. 'Twas now almost 9. of the clock, some complain'd of their heads, some of their Age, another of the Crowd; But a more zealous Brother cries out, Paul teach'd till midnight, and it was the time for their new lights to be held out; Mr. Harris is desir d to close all, and what he [Page 12]could not by dispute, to determine and end the diffe­rence by prayer, and their Requests, are now his best Call; see the power of Naturall Logick that hath prov'd, Those that have no Calling, to be lawfull Preachers, and those that have a Calling to be no Preachers at all.