THE Hidden things of Esau brought to light, And Reproved in an ANSWER To a Book Intituled A true Relation of a Dispute between Fran­cis Fulwood, Minister of West Alvington, in the County of Devon, and Thomas Salthouse, as it is said, of the County of Westmerland, before the Congregation of them called Quakers, in the House of Henry Pollexpher Esquire, in the said Parish of West.

Published in the Truth's defence, and sent abroad in the World, to pursue the unknown Authors imperfect Relation.

By a Follower of the LAMB in the War against the Beast and False Prophet, known to the World by the name of Thomas Salthouse.

Where is the wise? where is the Scribe? where is the Disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 1 Cor. 1.20.

Thou hast trusted in thy wickedness; thou hast said, None seeth me: Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee. Isai. 47.10.

Rejoyce not against me, O mine enemy; when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord will be a light unto me. Micah 7.8.

London, Printed for Giles Calvert, at the Black­spread-Eagle neer the West-end of Pauls. 1657.

The Preface.

FOrasmuch as there came lately to my hands a certain Book, or rather a Libel without any name unto it, intituled, A true Relation, &c. which it seems the Authors thereof, being conscious of their Ʋnfaithfulness, vain Repetitions, and manifold Lies therein contained, durst not own the same so far as to set their names thereunto, that so an An­swer might have been directed particularly to them and their folly made manifest; but thinking to shelter themselves in the dark from the eye of man, thereby to keep their deeds of dark­ness from the light: Yet he that searcheth the heart, and tries the reins, and brings the hidden things of Esau to light, in his due time will bring them to Judgment, both for their evil thoughts, hard speeches, and ungodly deeds; and this is he of whom I am a witness, who pleads the cause of the Innocent, and executes Righteous Judgment on the Earth.

And although for that the Authors thus hide themselves in the dark by concealing their names, and also the matters there­in contained, being of so little weight, it might justly have ex­cused an Answer, yet notwithstanding for the simple sake, and Truths vindication, I am constrained to send this ensuing Answer into the World, especially into the County of Devon, and Parish of West Alvington, where it is likely these un­known Authors Relation have past before; that if possible, it might come to the view of some of them who have digged so [Page 4]deep to hide themselves and their counsel in the dark, lest their shame and nakedness should be made manifest.

Their Book or Libel being filled with so many vain Repetiti­ons, and gross untruths of their own Suggestions, the Reader thereof can expect little for his Information or Edification: And therefore I shall not endeavor to fill a volumn with repeat­ing overmuch of what is herein contained; but onely hint at some passages that may seem to bear the most weight, and also manifest and reprove some of their lyes.

These Authors begin their Book as follows, A True Relation, &c.

Answer. THe first sentence is a lye, as I shall prove by your words in the Preface your own Rela­tion; where you confess you have conceal­ed some Infirmities, Repetitions, and vile Speeches, which indeed were many, as you say; also you say, the Quaker was so full of Impertinencies and Repetitions, that his words here set down, seem to bear no proportion to his tedious and rude Discourses: And then how can your Relation be true, when by your own confession, much is omitted? out of your own mouths be you judged. And though you finde me rude in Speech, yet may you not expect to find me so in knowledge; for God hath given me a mouth and wisdom to answer such gain-sayers and opposers, as call evil good, and good evil.

Book. On Tuesday 24 October, 1656.

Answ. There was no such day in the year; for the 24 day of October, 1656. was the sixth day of the week, call­ed Friday, and the same day I was at a meeting in Plimouth; but I let this pass among your other infirmities, though I might call it a lye. Its very unlike your Relation should be true, when you could not so much as remember the day.

Book. Published by some that were present at the dispute, out of a single and sincere desire, that Error may be ashamed, and the truth cleared.

Answ Error is ashamed; for are you not ashamed to own your Relation, which is so full of Error, although you say you were present at the dispute? if not, why did not you subscribe your names to your Book, which is so full of error. How can lyers clear the truth? its clear ready, notwithstand­ing all your deceit and deceivableness of unrighteousness, with which you would darken the truth, and cast a stumbling [Page 6]block before the simple, by rendring the truth odious; but the wo is unto such as you, who call truth error, and error truth; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; a deceived heart hath led you aside; a lye is in your right hand.

Book. It seemeth strange unto some that Mr. Fulwood would venture to go to the Quakers meeting, &c.

Answ. Its manifest, both of what generation you are of, and also him whom you call Mr. Fulwood: Your speech be­wrayeth you; did not you call him a Minister? when were any of Christs Ministers called of Men, Master? and who were they that were so called? are not they transgressors of the command of Christ that call men so? Read Matth. 23. Why should not he venture, unless he had thought the Quakers were such as the men of his generation, who hate and beat in their Meeting places and carry before Magi­strates, and to prison? or was he not rather conscious to himself of his guilt and hypocrisie? For the sinners in Sion are afraid, fearfulness surpriseth the Hypocrites, Isai. 33.14.

Book. He had no thought of making a set dispute of it, till provoked by the Quakers railing discourse.

Answ. Here I call you to bear witness against your selves, that my discourse was not railing, but words of truth and soberness, tending to the informing of the mindes of those that were present at the said meeting; that whereas they had formerly spent their money for that which was no bread, and their labor for that which did not satisfie; they might be turned to him who filleth the hungry with good things, and freely administers out of the Everlasting Trea­sury, without money, and without price: And as they had formerly in the time of their ignorance, heaped up to them­selves Teachers, they were exhorted to turn from the dark­ness to the light; that so they might come to know the true Teacher Jesus Christ, the Everlasting, High Priest, the chief Shepherd and Bishop of their Souls: There being many that day present, as sheep without a Shepherd, unto whom I was moved to lay open the deceit of the blinde Guides, Idol-Shepherds, [Page 7]such as run, but the Lord never sent them, hire­lings, false Prophets, deceivers and Antichrists; such as di­vine for money, and speak a divination of their own brain; of which sort, many are gone forth into the world in these last days, and perilous times; and many have followed their pernitious ways, by reason whereof the truth hath been evil spoken of; and unless you call the Scripture language, rail­ing discourse, own your selves to be false accusers; for it lies upon you yet to prove what your false Relation af­firms.

Book. 1: We hear the Quaker threatens to print the de­bate himself, from whom we can expect no faithfulness there­in.

Answ. Your first Reason is grounded on a lye, or false information at the best: I never threatened, nor indeed in­tended any such thing here; your evil surmising appears; your clearly manifest the contrary in your selves, which you say, you could not expect from me; for if I had first print­ed, you might have found more faithfulness then I finde at your hands. But to me this is not strange, seeing it is mani­fest of what generation you are; had you not respected per­sons, you would have done to me, as you would I should have done to you, and not to have added to, nor diminished from my words, to make them appear ridiculous to the Reader, when you pretend to give a true Relation; but your covering is too narrow, though you have made haste with your work, lest others should have written before, that would have dealt equally for both parties.

Book. 2. We hear that some others who did not write say, They will lay their heads together, and print as much as they can remember; which if they should, it must needs be done very imperfectly.

Answ. You have left enough for them yet to do (if any such intention were) before the Relation be perfect; and they may either write or print, notwithstanding what you have done: And if they should give a more imperfect Re­lation then you have done, I shall deny both you and them, and stand a witness for God against you all; but this I know [Page 8]there is none that owns the truth in the least measure, that was present that day, though the words were not written that day as they were spoken, that will joyn with or approve of what you have done. For they may plainly see your un­equal ballance, and bag of deceitful weights, and how you have wrested my words, and enlarged upon his, as if your works should never have been brought to light, or you cal­led in question to give an account thereof; but the just God sees you in secret, who will reward you openly.

Book. 3. We hear that since we supposed, prejudiced persons are ready to say, &c.

Answ. That they were prejudiced persons who said so, is nothing but your supposition; and if they said I had, the best they might speak truth, for truth prevails against deceit, and the Lamb must have the victory: There is little reason, that what you suppose, wonder at, or affirm, should gain much credit or change their mindes, though for the present you have endeavored to cast a mist before the eyes of such as heard not both parties that day, to beget a prejudice in their mindes against the truth.

Book. Let none slander us with unfaithfulness in the Re­lation.

Answ. To say that the Relation is unfaithful and false, is no slander. It seems you were convinced in Conscience of your guilt in this thing, else why did you conceal your names? had you given the whole Reason on both sides, as you say you did, you need not have been ashamed to own it, or put it to others that would have remembred more, and yet are you so impudent as to call it a true Relation.

Book. Yea, the weight of Mr. Fulwoods Answer, though extemporary, is such that we think we may safely, let them loose not onely to what was said that day, but to what can be re­plied upon the deliberation of all the Quakers, betwixt this and Westmerland.

Answ. You have manifested your selves in this Relation to the lest of these called Quakers, to be proud boasters; and to such as live in the light, his Answers, though with the assistance of his, and your deliberation appear to be light [Page 9]and vain; although you that are destroyed for want of knowledge, and set your selves to contend for, and uphold such as cry peace, while men put into their mouths, say they are weighty; and by the assistance and direction of the E­ternal Spirit of him who gives a mouth and wisdom to his Children, that all their adversaries are not able to gainsay or resist; I shall answer to some of his weightest Argu­ments, though it may be not with such cunning devised Fa­bles, and excellence of Speech, as is pleasing to your ears as cannot endure found doctrine; and yet of as much and more weight and use for edification to the simple, as your Narrative, which you say, you have humbly put before them; your expressions manifest but little humility.

Book. If any shall print another Narrative, let them but be faithful in setting down Mr. Fulwoods own Answers or Arguments, in their due weight and fulness.

Answ. Ye Hipocrites, will you pull a mote out of an­others eye, while the beam is in your own? you that would teach others, would not you teach your selves? it would be but vain repetitions to write his words over again. Ought not you to have been faithful first, in setting down my An­swers and Arguments, with the due weight and fulness, be­fore you had exhorted others to faithfulness in this particu­lar, and then there had been no need of another Relation; but the steddy eye (as you say) of those before whom you put your Narrative, might have taken a full view of the truth on both sides, as their ears had done before, who were pre­sent at that discourse.

Book. We know not that we have concealed any thing, save some infirmities, viz Reproaches and vile Speeches, which in­deed were such, and so many, &c.

Answ. Oh you deceitful tongues! do you pretend a con­cealing of infirmities, reproaches, and vile speeches, and yet mention them in general, which such aggravating circum­stances, as to be such and so many, as even inforced some of Mr. Fulwoods more ingenious adversaries, to say, That they wondred that flesh and blood could contain so long un­der such temptations, &c. What were those reproaches [Page 10]and vile speeches, had it not have been as much Charity to have exprest the particulars, as to mention them in general with such aggravations? Let that in your consciences wit­ness, whether you intended any such thing as to conceal my infirmities and vile speeches; if any had been uttered, were not those the vile speeches as you mention; the discovery of the deceit of the hirelings and false Prophets, which if you should have set down, would have manife sted the folly and wickedness of him, and that generation which you go about to hide and uphold?

Book. There were some things very remarkable, and the cunning craftiness of the Quaker was such, That do what Mr. Fulwood could to force him to it, he still found some trick or other to evade the maintaining those passages (of dangerous consequence) which he let fall in his first discourse, which were not a few; and which he took notice Mr. Fulwood wrote down.

Answ. O ye deceitful Craftsmen, and false Accusers, what were these passages of dangerous consequence? was it de­claring against sin, and exhorting to purity and holiness, to minde the light, and take up the Cross and follow Christ in the straight way? or was it the laying open the deceit of the false Prophets, hirelings, and such as say they are Ministers of Christ, and are not? such as are called of Men Master, take the cheif Seats in the Assemblies, uppermost rooms at Feasts; and whose hearts are exercised with covetous pra­ctises, and have forsaken the right way, and are gone in the way of Cain, and run greedily after the error of Balaam, for gifts and rewards: If he that you call Mr. Fulwood, wrote down any thing of dangerous consequence, it had been his duty or yours in this Relation, to have published them; that so they might have been avoided, and the Au­thor ashamed; for you say this was published out of a sin­cere desire, that truth might be cleared, and error ashamed. And here you have added another lye, to say, That I took notice that Mr. Fulwood wrote down those passages of dan­gerous consequence; for I did not see him, nor any other write any thing that day of that discourse, which I was [Page 11]moved of the Lord to speak, not fearing all that came to oppose themselves: Although I were sensible there were many that day come together to lie in wait to catch me in my words; and if I had seen any write down what I said that day, I had no cause to be afraid nor ashamed, knowing that I have a witness in all your consciences that heard me, even the Authors of his Book, though they manifested themselves to be my subtil Adversaries; their cunning will deceive them in the end as their deceit comes to be laid open by the light; which makes manifest every mans work, of what sort it is.

Book. 2. He took all occasions to bring the dispute to such points as lay in difference between us and the Anabaptists, that thus he might engage the Anabaptists with himself, which indeed he effected, the greatest advantage he got that day.

Answ. Have you no other resuge but lies to shelter un­der? what occasion took I to engage the Anabaptists? both they and most of the company then present saw the deceit of Francis Fulwood that day, and many of them declared against it. I utterly deny, that I endeavored to engage any further then the truth convinced them; neither did I fear any that did engage against me: And if the Lord raised up a witness in those you call Anabaptists, or any others, to contend for the truth against your deceit, let him have the glory. I ad­mire no mans person, because of advantage; and if Francis Fulwood lost the advantage that day with your assistance, or likely with the help of his Brethren of the Craft, he may think to regain what he then lost, by enlarging upon his confused Answers and Arguments, and diminishing, and wresting my Answers, Replies, and Arguments that day, made in the truths defence; but neither yours nor the as formed weapons shall prosper, your refuge of lies the Lord will sweep away.

Book. 3. That upon every stand or difficulty, he continu­ally fled unto the common Refuge of Hireling taking Tithes, &c.

Answ. Its a better refuge then lies to flie unto; did not the true Prophets, Ministers, and Messengers of Christ, de­clare [Page 12]against hirelings, such as divined for money, bare rule by their means; sought for their gain from their quarter; and against covetous, proud, heady, high-minded men: Is Francis Fulwood guilty of any of these? If so, let him re­pent in time, and turn you from him; if not, neither he nor you need be offended at me, nor account it too grateful a discourse to any.

Book. 4. Although he first urged to have the express words of Scripture, to be the rule of the dispute, &c.

Answ. You still flie to your old refuge which cannot long stand, to wit lies; look back to the third remarkable thing, as you call it, and compare it with this, and your contradicti­ons and confusions will appear remarkable indeed: Did not you there say, that in every stand I fled to the common re­fuge of Tithes, Hirelings, Diviners for money, &c. which are express words of Scripture; and are you now so impu­dent, as to say, that I did not so much as once keep so exactly to the express words of Scripture? Here you have given an opportunity sufficiently to discover and lay open your folly.

Book 5. Yet his cunning deceived him, in that as is most remarkable. The very Texts which he urged as before noted, afforded so direct and plain Answers upon every occasion, that he had no room left for any colourable Reply.

Answ. What can you not open your mouths without ly­ing? I need give no other answer to this, but appeal to all those that heard the dispute, whose judgments are not cap­tivated with prejudice. Where are those plain Answers? how is it you had not set down some of them, in that which you call a true Relation? A Reply that had not given satis­faction, might stand for a colour; but as troups of Robbers that lay in wait to murder by consent, you bend your tongues for lies, and shoot out your arrows, even bitter words.

Book. 6. Lastly. And which did justly amaze us, how boldly, and with what inforcing Repetitions did Mr. Fulwood challenge him to set down his opinions, and engage that there­upon he would at the next meeting bring Papists Books, &c.

Answ. All opinions and sects I deny, neither can I re­member at present, that I heard him speak of writing down any but my principles; what I owned and disowned, I free­ly declared that day, which neither be nor you hath or can disprove; that dispute being the Fourteenth day of the Moneth, called October, 1656. I had three meetings the same Moneth, one at the house of Henry Pollexphen afore­said on the Six and twentieth day, another the Seven and twentieth at Batson, and another the Eight and twentieth at Kingsbridge: of which, its likely Francis Fulwood had notice: For Nicholas Tripe, in whose house the Meeting then was, informed me, that he sent a Messenger to him with a Message to this purpose; That if he were dissatisfied in any thing in the forementioned discourse, he might have free liberty to come into his house, and be answered to what he had to object; which was done at my request: Let his pra­ctise and mine be judged by the Light, which is nearer to Popery, and who it was that fainted.

Book. The Lord awaken us betime, least we say peace peace, when sudden destruction cometh.

Answ. Let him that nameth the name of the Lord, de­part from iniquity; for none calls Jesus Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. What have you to do to take his name into your mouths? and thus bend your tongues for lies, and hate to be reformed, upon you that are asleep, will the day of the Lord come as a theif in the night, even as sudden de­struction from the Almighty. Therefore arise and be a­wakened, and prepare to meet the Lord by repentance; that if peradventure the thoughts of your hearts may be for­given you. For the Lord hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ; and with equity will he plead the cause of the innocent, against whom you make war, and shoot your arrows in secret; fear and tremble, weep and howl, for the misery that is coming up­on you; in flames of fire will God render vengeance upon his adversaries; out of Heaven will he thunder upon them, and they shall be even broken to peeces, as the Vessel of a Potter is broken with a rod of Iron. In vain do ye pot-sheards [Page 14]of the Earth strive to set Bryers and Thorns in bat­tle; your formed weapons cannot prosper, a consumption is even determined upon the whole Earth; and every mans work is to be tried by fire, that the approved of God may be made manifest. Can ye contend with the Almighty, be­fore whom all Nations are as the drop of a Bucket, or as the small dust of the ballance? Give over, stop your mouths; let all flesh be silent before the Lord. Come down and sit in the dust, you that are high and lifted up, and meet the Judge by the way. Kiss the Son, least he be angry, and lay down your Crown at the feet of the Lamb; and let the Lord be your fear, and let him be your dreads; and let the light of Christ in your consciences, try your words and works; and cease from your blinde Leaders, that have used their tongues, and not profited the people. And while you have the light, believe in the light, and know, while the Spirit of the Lord strives with you; resist not his power, lest your Bonds be made strong, and you for ever shut up in utter darkness. A price is put into your hands, the Lord will not the death of a sinner; the times of ignorance God winked at, but now he calls all men every where to repent. Call not this the railing discourse, but take it as a Call to you, and a warning from the Lord, by a servant of the Truth, made willing by the power of God, to follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth.

Thomas Salthouse.
Francis Fulwood.

TO the substance of what passed between thee and me, in the discourse upon the Four and twentieth day of the Eight Moneth, 1656. in the house of Henry Pollexphen, which its like thou wast not un­acquainted with the Printing of, if no: the cheifest actor. I shall return something in Answer for the Truth's vindication, especially to the particulars of most concernment, which I call to minde since I saw this Relation.

As first: After I had spoken to the people that day, as I was moved, and directed by the Spirit of Truth; then a Friend of mine being moved also, stood up according to the order in the Churches of the Saints, and spoke to the people then present; to whom I gave liberty, the spirits of the Pro­phets being made subject to the Prophets: And as thou mayest remember thy first Objection was against her for saying, Eternal life was not to be found in the Scriptures.

The second thing was a Quere by me propounded to thee, which I yet received no satisfactory Answer unto, from thee.

The third thing was an Objection made by thee against me, for expressing as I was declaring to the people, That those who are out of the Doctrine of Christ, as they were then described by their fruirs and marks, were such as Preach another Gospel then that which the Apostle had preached; and so under the curse, as it is written, Gal 1.

The fourth thing was about the light spoken of in Johns Declaration, and something concerning Tithes.

Fifthly, Concerning Baptism, and the words thee and thou, which many are offended at, as they are, and were given [Page 16]and taken by the servants of God, one to another, as we read in the Scriptures of Truth.

To these things in order, as God doth direct. I shall for the truths sake answer; and as for the other passages in the Relation, not worth the taking notice of, or repeating over again, I shall let them stand and wither as an untimely birth, begotten by one of the adulterate generation, and brought forth of the womb of consusion.

I might have written down a gross sum of lies; but it feems the Authors were pricked at the heart, when they saw what they had done; and so to hide themselves, have concealed their names from the visible eye of man: But this Cave of earthly subtilty, will not long hide them from the All-seeing eye of him with whom we have to do.

If thou be one of their confederacy, fear and tremble be­fore the Lord, and come forth to the Light, that thou mayst be proved and tried; and be not thou called of men Master, but learn of Jesus Christ to be meek and lowly; take up his Cross and follow him, and side not longer with the Chief Priests against him and his Ministers, whom he hath sent forth as sheep among wolves, to reprove sin in the Gates, and to preach Repentance, that people may be turned from the darkness to the light, and from under Satans power un­to God; who hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my Gospel.

To the first of these particulars I shall proceed. Thy first Objection which the Book also mentions against the Woman, is as follows.

Fulwood. I Have one word first unto this woman that spake last, and that is to charge her with speaking ex­presly against the Scripture: She told us, that Eternal life was not to be found in the Scriptures; whereas the Apostle saith expresly, that the holy Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation.

Answ. The Scripture is plain for what she intended, John 5. Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think to have eter­nal [Page 17]life, and they are they that testifie of me, saith Christ. But ye will not come unto me, that you may have life. And again he saith, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; and he that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son, hath not life, although he may have the Scriptures: 2 Cor. 4.10. For the Minister of Christ waited for, and witnessed the life of Christ mani­fested in his mortal Body, and travailed again in birth with others, till Christ the Life was formed in them; I in them, and they in me, saith Christ, John 17. And Christ in you the Hope of glory, the Mystery that hath been hid from ages and generations; and this is Life eternal, saith Christ to his Father, that they may know thee the onely true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. For that which may be known of God, is manifest in them; and this is plain, That eternal life is not to be found in the Scriptures, although it is acknowledged they testifie of these things. Here is no mention made, That eternal life is to be found in the Scrip­tures; and thus thy Objection is answered.

Fulw. True; but this Son in whom eternal life is, is alone to be found in Scriptures, as the next words affirm, They are they which testifie of me; therefore eternal life is to be found in the Scriptures. And thus your own Text overthrows you.

Ans. Be not hasty, but look back to thy confused stuff, wher­in doth the Text overthrow me? for what the Scripture saith, own; but neither by this Text, nor any other. Canst thou ever prove, that eternal life is to be found in the Scriptures? or the Son whom to know is eternal life; therefore let thy mouth be stopped, and proceed no farther to pervert the right ways of God, nor to wrest the Scriptures to thy own destruction; for they are of no private interpretation; al­though many who have them, think to finde eternal life in them, both thou and they are deceived, that seek the living among the dead; for the letter killeth, 2 Cor. 3.6. but the spirit alone giveth life: He that hath understanding, let him read.

The Scripture being thus plain against thy Objection, thy next shift was this; The Apostle saith expresly; That the [Page 18]Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation: But this was not to the thing in hand; for the Scriptures I own and wit­ness to be profitable for Doctrine and Reproof, and to fur­nish the Man of God perfectly; and through Faith, which is alone in Jesus Christ, are they able to make wise unto sal­vation; and without Faith, its impossible to please God. And the company seeing the Objection answered, said, Leave this, here is an end of it: And my Quere to thee was as fol­lows, Whether is it lawful for a Minister of Christ to take Tithe [...], hire, gifts, or rewards, for preaching the Gospel in these days, since the Law and the Priesthood was changed, yea, or nay?

Fulw. You think you have put a Question that will gravel me; have but a little patience, and this will have its place. I demand of you, Whether the Scripture in the express Letter of it, shall be our rule? or whether we may draw consequences from it?

Answ. I deny thy consequences and meanings, and pri­vate interpretations; answer thou my Quere by plain Scrip­ture.

Fulw. He may be a lawful Minister that takes hire; prove the contrary if you can.

Answ. This is no answer to my Quere; yet I shall prove the contrary by Scriptures. The Prophets prophesie falsly, and the Priests te [...]ch for hire, and by their means they bear rule, and my people love to have it so, saith the Lord. This was a wonderful horrible thing that was then committed in the Land, and not lawful; And for this cause, saith the Lord, shall Zion be ploughed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest: They run, but I never sent them, saith the Lord, therefore they shall not profit this people at all; night shall be unto them, that they shall not have a vision, and the day shall be dark over them; Micah 3. then shall the Seers be ashamed, and the Diviners confounded; they shall all cover their lips, for there is no answer of God; they have fed themselves with the fat, and cloathed themselves with the wool; and my people are destroyed for want of knowledge, [Page 19]as troups of robbers wait for a man; even so the company of Priests murder in the way by consent. Put into their mouths, and they cry peace, peace. Put not into their mouths, and they bite with their teeth, and even prepare war against them. This is not the lawful Ministry; for the wo is gone forth against the men that do this, both the Master and the Schollar; and he that helpeth, and he that is holpen, shall fall together. Therefore all people every where come out from among them, and be ye separated, hold them not up, nor be partakers with them in their sins; that so you may escape the misery that is coming upon those blind guides that have forsaken the way of the true Prophets, Christ and his Ministers; who called all men to come freely without money, and without price, and abode in the truth, and gave freely as they had freely received, a necessity being laid upon them to preach the Gospel freely, and to make it with­out charge. Is this thy practise, 1 Cor. 9. or dost not thou preach for hire?

Fulw. If I do, I have Scripture for it, and you cannot say I preach for hire, unless you could see my heart; and besides my preaching twice every Lords day, which is all I am bound by man unto, I Catechise, I Expound upon some part of Scri­ture, I desire particular Conference, in order to the Sacrament, I visit the sick, I preach my turn at some Lectures, and this day I am here doing more then I am bound to do, or can expect any reward from man; for ye all know I might have been quiet in my Study at home, but for love to the Souls of my poor peo­ple, that if possibly I might save them out of the hands of such Deceivers and Seducers.

Answ. Here thou art upon thy Self-justification, yet art thou not clear, from being an hiteling; for thou hast ac­knowledged thy self to be bound by man, and also thou ac­knowledgest thou hadst a competent maintenance in lieu of Preaching. What command or example hast thou for these things? and what Scripture hast thou for the Word, Sacra­ment, or Catechising, or to premeditate aforehand? and when had any of the Ministers of Christ Studies, as thou saist thou mightiest have been quiet in thy Study at home? [Page 20]Thou art out of the steps of the true Ministers of Christ, expounding and giving meanings to the Scriptures, adding and diminishing, interpreting and wresting the Scriptures: And therefore thy Gospel is easily proved to be another then theirs was; and if thou call us Deceivers or Seducers, prove it by Scripture, That we are such, as draw from the an­ointing within unto outward observations; for such are Se­ducers; and he is a Deceiver that transgresseth, and abideth not in the Doctrine of Christ, and steals the Word from his neighbor; that useth his tongue, and saith, Thus saith the Lord, when the Lord never sent him, among whom thou art found; although thou lean upon the Lord, and with the Pharisee, justifie thy self for Preaching many Lectures, and visiting the sick; thy long Prayers, and thy Lecture Preach­ing is but the divination of thy own brain; and thy Ser­vice and Sacrifices, is no more to the Lord then the cutting of a Dogs neck, Isa: 66.3 or offering Swines blood, so long as thou art not justified by Faith; therefore give over Divining for money, and Preaching for hire, and let all fl [...]sh be silent be­fore the Lord; for he that exalteth himself, will the Lord a base, and bring down, that no flesh may glory in his presence.

Fulw. But let me proceed to demand of you satisfaction in one thing: Pray how do you prove the Ministers of England preach an other Gospel then. Paul, preached? for that was one of your marks of the false Prophets.

Answ. I own and have union with the Ministers of Eng­land, and elswhere, that declare freely unto others that which they have heard and seen, tasted and bandled of the Word of Life; 1 John 1.1. which they have received neither of man, nor by man, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ; and I have nothing to say against them: But if either thou, or any other man in England, or an Angel from Heaven preach another Gospel, then that which the Apostle preached, let him be accursed.

Fulw. I receive the Gospel from Paul, as the Galatians did even from the same writings of Paul.

Ans. Even as Paul said to the Galatians, so say I to them who believes thy testimony, O foolish people and unwise I [Page 21]who hath bewitched you to believe such a lying spirit? or to own such a one for your Minister. Is it a like thing that Fra-Fulwood could receive the Gospel from Paul, as the Galatians did? Its manifest, that Paul had preached the Gospel to the Galatians, before he wrote that Epistle to them from Rome, and the Galatians had also received it, before that Epistle was written: And these writings are not called the Gospel, which he saith he received the Gospel from; and if they were, he is found but one of them that steal the Word from his neighbor, and from another mans writings: So it is but death and destruction that speaks of the same; and there­fore receive no such into your houses, neither bid them God speed, least you also be partakers with them in their evil deeds; for all such filthy dreamers and men of corrupt mindes, are sure to have their portion with Jannes and Jam­bres, and their Forefathers and Brethren in iniquity, Co­rah, Dathan, and Abiram, although by this craft they pro­sper for a while, and get much wealth, which is but the wages of unrighteousness.

Fulw. Come, come Sir, you have told us, That what you delivered, you have by revelation from Heaven, wherein I tell you, you blaspheme the Lord; you have said to the people, That the false Prophets, meaning us in the Ministery, deny the light that is in all men.

Ans. It is not blasphemy to declare what I have received by revelation from Heaven; but it is blasphemy for false Pro­phets to call themselves Christs Ministers. For me to declare against false Prophets, as I am moved of the Lord, is neither blasphemy nor railing discourse as thou accountest it; and in as much as thou deniest the sufficiency of the light to lead to salvation, or eternally to condemn, thou maist apply it to thy self, to be one of those false Prophets that rebels against the light, Job 24.13. whose pernitious ways many have follow­ed, by reason of whom the way of truth, is evil spoken of; for thou sayest, the light spoken of in the Scripture, will be found to be onely common and not saving. Here the nature and operation of the light is by thee denied, and the Scripture perverted; and with the light that never changes, art thou comprehended, judged, and condemned.

Christ saith, John 8.12. I am the light of the world, and he that fol­lows me, shall not abide in darkness, but shall have the light of life: And Christs Ministers bear testimony to the same light; and this is the condemnation, That light is come into the world, and men loves darkness rather then light, be­cause their deeds are evil. For whatsoever is reproved is first made manifest by the light, and whatsoever makes manifest, is light, Ephesians chap. 5. And his light turned to, believed in, loved and obeyed, is sufficient to lead to salvation: And for this purpose were Christs Ministers sent forth as sheep among wolves, to turn men from the darkness to the light that shined in the darkness; which their dark understandings did not comprehend, before they heard Preachers that were sent: and of this light I am a witness; and this is the Mes­sage I have to declare, That God is light, and in him is no darkness at all; in him was life, and his life was the light of men: And this is the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. The Law of God also is called a light, Prov. 6 23. and the Commandment a Lamp, and the Word of God is a Light and a Lanthorn, and his Covenant a light, as its written, Behold I will keep thee, and give thee for a Covenant of the people, for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation to the ends of the earth. Christ Jesus is this light, as it is written, Lord now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy Word; for mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared be­fore the face of all people, a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel; and in vain is salvation hoped for from the mountains and from the hills; for up­on him that is mighty, is salvation laid, who saith, Look un­to me, and be saved, all ye ends of the Earth.

Fulw. There is no means sufficient to salvation, but what Scripture asserts to be so; but we do not finde in Scripture, that the light is sufficient to convince of sin, if improved; if it be, shew it.

Answ. The grace of God which bringeth salvation, hath appeared unto all men; and this grace is sufficient, 2 Cor. 12.9. And the Scripture declares there is no other name given [Page 23]under Heaven, whereby men can be saved, 2 Cor. 4.6. but by the name of Jesus, who saith, I am the light; and God who command­ed light to shine out of darkness, bath also shined into our hearts, to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God, in the face of Jesus Christ. And we have this trea­sure in Earthen Vessels, since it hath pleased the Father to reveal his Son in us, unto whom he hath freely made known, what is the glory of the Mystery that hath been hid from ages and gene [...]ations, Christ in us the hope of glory, 1 Col. 27. in whom is life, and this life is our light, and this light is with­in; for that which may be known of God, is manifest with­in: But this is a mystery to you, whose wisdom is earthy, and your understandings darkned; and unto such is our Gospel hid, whose mindes the God of this world hath blinded, among whom we have had our conversation in times past. But our light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen, and arising, and shall cover the face of the earth, as the waters cover the Sea. And now the sinners in Zion be­gin to tremble, and fearfulness surprises the Hypocrites; the voice of Babylons merchants is heard with a loud cry, Rev. 18. Alas, alas! for none will buy our merchandise any longer. Come say they, let us smite with the tongue, the hope of our gain is gone; you know that by this craft we have got our wealth, and if these mens doctrine be received, not onely our craft is endangered; but our Church and Ordinances which all the world worships in, will be denied, and our Tithes, Augmentations, Gifts, and Rewards for Preaching, will be taken away. Report, and we will report it; let us call them Deceivers and Seducers, for none dare contradict us: When we are in the Pulpits, the Law of the Land is our protection, and by it we have liberty to imprison them, if they disturb or interrupt us. And thus you Parish-Teachers shelter your selves for a season; but your covering is too nar­row, and your bed will be found shorter then a man can stretch himself upon it. Your wickedness is manifest, and reproved by the light; and by a foolish people are you pro­voked to jealousie, whom God hath chosen to confound the wisdom of the wise; glory to his Name for ever, who hath [Page 24]put an end to the first Covenant that made not the comers thereunto perfect, as pertaining to the conscience, and hath disannulled the Commandment going before, by reason of the weakness and unprofitableness of it. This is our God, we have waited for him; he alone is our Judge, King, and Law-giver, to whom our soul is subject; for he ever liveth, and hath an unchangable Priesthood, even him who is able to save to the uttermost, all that come to God by him: Which we now witness, and deny, and declare against the changable Priesthood that took Tithes, and denied Christ to be come in the flesh.

Fulw. Tithes are lawful, because not forbidden; yea, they seem to be encouraged by Christ himself; ye. Tithe Mint, &c. And ye do well therefore, we do not ill to take them.

Answ. Read thy portion among them, to whom Christ spoke; and if thou do well, mayst thou not be accepted? Wo unto you Scribes, Pharisees, Hypocrites; for ye pay Tithe of Mint, Mat. 23. Annise, and Cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the Law, Judgment, Mercy, and Faith: These you ought to have done, and not to leave the other undone. But he did not say. You did well in so doing, but called them fools and bl [...]nde: And so may I truly call him who saith, this is an encouragement to takes Tithes. If thou or any of thy Brethren take them on this account, for shame never profess your selves to be Ministers of the Gospel; for Christ gave no command or encouragement to the Twelve, Seventy, or to any of his Disciples to take Tithes: And be­sides those to whom Christ then spake, did not believe in him, nor confess him to be the end of the first Covenant; in which Tithes was commanded, and due to be paid to the Levitical Priesthood, which were many Priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man hath an unchangable Priesthood; for he ever liveth to make intercession for his, and is able to save to the utter­most, all them that come to the Father by him, who is made a Priest for ever, not by the Law of a carnal command, but by the power of an endless life; and of the things which are spoken, Heb. 8.1. both concerning Melchisedec, and the Levitical [Page 25]Priesthood, in that Declaration to the Hebrews. This is the sum and substance, Jesus Christ who is set on the right hand of the Throne of the Majestie in the Heavens, a Mi­nister of the Sanctuary, and of the true Tabernacle which God hath pitched, and not man.

For finding fault with the first Covenant, Behold the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, a new Covenant, not according to the old, which Covenant they brake. Even this is the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my Law in their mindes, and write them in their hearts; I will be unto them a God, and they shall be my people.

And thus the Law and Priesthood being changed, as is clear by Scripture; neither thou, nor thy Brethren have any right to take Tithes, either by the Law of God, or example of Christs Ministers; nor no encouragement from his words, nor from that of Abraham, who freely gave Tithes to Mel­chisedec out of the spoils, who blessed him when he return­ed from the Conquest; but ye receive the tenth, not of the spoils onely, but out of poor mens labors, and of them who receive no blessing from you, and for whom you do no work.

In the time of the Law there were indeed many Priests, and the Priests lips were to preserve the knowledge of the people; and then they ought to have brought their Tithes into the storehouse. And these Priests had a necessity daily to offer Sacrifice; first for their own sin, and then for the peoples: But Christ being come, the Everlasting High Priest of good things to come, by a greater and a more per­fect Tabernacle, not made with hands as the figures and shadows of these good things was: He hath obtained a more excellent Ministry, in as much as he is the Mediator of a better Covenant, established upon better promises. And so the Priesthood being changed, Heb. 7.12. there is made of necessity a change of the Law.

Fulw. I have two things to defend our taking of Tithes against his Verse; one of which I am sure will hold. The first is, That we claim not Tithes by the Law of God, as it were commanded there, but by the Law of the Land, whereby we have as clear a title to our Tithes, as that Gentleman hath to his Estate. The second thing that I have to say, is, That you cannot prove by this Text, that the onely Law for Tithes in the Word of God is abolished.

Answ. Even upon this ground hath thy generation, whose hearts are exercised with coveteous practises in all ages, caused the Saints and Servants of God, of whom the world was not worthy, to suffer. Some the spoiling of their goods, Heb. 11. and others the trials of cruel mockings, yea, moreover Bonds and Imprisonments, for bearing wit­ness against their deceit. Here thou hast manifested thy self sufficiently to be out of Christs doctrine and command, as before in this Relation is expressed, to wit, Bound by man to Preach every Lords day; and by the Law of man thou receivest thy reward. And so if thou hast a minde to sue any of those that believe in Christ at the Law, and take a­way their Coat, thou maist have their Cloak also; for they cannot resist thee, being made subject to the higher power for Conscience sake: And if thou smite me on the one Cheek, I must rather turn the other, then smite thee again. And if any of those within the compass of thy quarter, who are witnesses of the unchangable Priesthood, out of Conscience refuse to pay thee Tithes, thou hast this shelter to flie unto; to wit, the Law of the Land to sue them for their own Corn or Hay, on which thou never bestowedst any labor.

But Friend, look thou first unto the Royal Law, and see if this be as thou wouldst be done by. If thou profess thy self to be a Minister of God, let the Law of God be thy rule, and take counsel of him alone, and let his Word be thy light; and here thou wilt come to see thy pleading for [Page 27]Tithes, to be onely for thy own carnal ends, and not for the glory of God: And if any one deny to pay Tithes out of coveteousness, self-ends, or a desire to save the Earth; I am against that principle, both in thee and them; For the Earth is the Lords, and the fulness thereof. And if any man have this worlds goods, and see his Brother have need, and shut up his compassion against him; how dwells the love of God in that man?

But that thou hast as much right to Tithes, as the Gentleman thou makest mention of, hath to his estate, it lies upon thee to prove by Scripture; Col. 2.14. for that Law is changed, and the hand writing of Ordinances blotted out, by which the Levitical Priesthood had right to their Tithes, who had no inheritance in the Land of Canaan: But thou canst not prove, that the Evidences by which the Gentle­man thou speakest of, holds his estate, is disannulled or made void.

And they who received Tithes, Deut. 14.29. had also a commandment to pay Tithes: And if thou plead for their order, then the strangers, the widows, and fatherless, have as much reason to plead for, and right to receive Tithes, as thou or any of thy Brethren hath.

And if thou plead for Melchisedecs order, then if thou meet any coming from the slaughter of their enemies, after they have conquered, if thou have a blessing for them, thou maist take the Tenth of the spoils, if they be free to give it thee; but if thou deny the figures, and own and confess Jesus Christ to be come in the flesh, and thy self to be one of his Ministers, thou needst neither plead for Tithes, nor take thought what to eat or drink, or what to put on: Matth. 6. For after these things do the Heathen seek, who know not God.

Fulw. The Text saith, he paid Tithes; and if it be grant­ed me, That Tithes be lawful to be paid in the time of the Gospel, I desire no more.

Answ. The Text doth not say, that Tithes was paid in the time of the Gospel, not to any of the Ministers of the Gospel; and if thou confess thy self to be one, I demand of thee to what end thou desiredst it so earnestly. If thou didst but take Christs counsel, to seek first the Kingdom of God and its righteousness, all other things would be added unto thee; for God hath ordained, that they that preach the Gospel, should live of the Gospel, and be content with food and rayment; and the hand writing of Ordinances for taking Tithes is blotted out, and the Commandment going before disannulled; so that it cannot be granted to be law­ful for Christs Ministers to take Tithes: But what needest thou be afraid, if thou be one of his? If God took care for Oxen in the time of the Law, and for the Levitical Priests, who had no inheritance in the promised Land? Matth. 6. Doth he not also take care for his children in these days, seeing his mercy endures for ever? O thou of little Faith! is not thy life more then meat, and thy body more then rayment? If thou were but a Minister of Christ, and didst watch onely for the soul, the dispute about these carnal things would be soon at an end; but by the children of light, both your Call, Mini­stry, Maintenance, and Ordinances are seen, which stands onely in outside things, and carnal washings, are seen and judged. What Scripture have you for sprinkling of Infants, and so call it Baptism, or an Ordinance of God?

Fulw. I never saw an Infant onely sprinkled.

Answ. Whether it be dipping or sprinkling, prove your Baptism of Infants by Scripture to be a lawful command of Christ, or an Ordinance of God; else I charge you to be usurpers of Authority: Many are unsatisfied about this Ordiannce, as you call it; therefore it lieth upon you to make full proof of your Ministry and practise; and where­in your manner of Baptising Infants differs in the ground of it from the Prelates, Bishops, and Papists, whose doctrine and practise you pretend to deny: And when your deeds is brought to the light to be proved, then it will appear, whe­ther you or we have denied the Popish Tenants, practise and principles.

Fulw. This is but to delude the people; you know you deny all Baptism with water, and that you are as much against the Anabaptists as against us.

Answ. This is a false accusation; for I with thousands more in this Nation, whose union and fellowship is in the light, do own and witness the Baptism which the Scripture speaks of, which is by one Spirit into one Body; 1 Cor. 12.13. but all Beggerly Elements, Bodily Exercises, Carnal Ordinances, and Outside Services, Imitations, Likenesses, and Shadows of Heavenly things, we count as dung and dross in compari­son of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, the Substance and End of all Figures, Types and Shadows, in whom we are circumcised, with the Circumcision made with­out hands, in putting off the Body of the sins of the flesh, buried with him in Baptism, and raised together with him, through the Faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead, and we are compleat in him who is the head of all principalities and powers, Col. 2. who hath made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them; and so be­ing dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, we are no more subject to its Ordinances, knowing that they perish with the using, and do not make the Comers there­unto perfect; although they have a shew of wisdom, and a will-worship in a voluntary humility, by which the people are deluded; and if the Anabaptists, as thou callest them have an other Baptism then this, we are not subject unto it. And whereas thou chargest me with deluding the people, its false, and more then thou canst prove: But I shall pass by it, ha­ving learned of him who when he was reviled, reviled not again. And if thou hast any Scripture for the baptising In­fants with water, shew it for the peoples satisfaction.

Fulw. We are commanded to baptize all Nations; but In­fants are a great part of all Nations: Therefore we are com­manded to baptize Infants.

Answ. Here is no mention made of water in this com­mand; and besides, they to whom it was given, were first sent forth to teach; as it is written, Go teach all Nations; and they abode in the doctrine of Christ, and went forth [Page 30]as sheep among Wolves; and into whatsoever City, Town, or Village they entred, they were to inquire, who was wor­thy, and not what they might expect for a livelihood for themselves, their Wives, and their Children: And some were sent forth not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel; and these were sent first to teach and preach repentance, and they were to repent before they were to be baptized. So that it plainly manifests, That those who baptize Infan [...]s before they teach them, or before they have repented, are transgressors of this command of Christ. And I also questi­on, where ever Frances Fulwood was sent either to preach or baptize; for Christs Ministers were not so beggerly, as to take hire for their preaching twice every Lords day, or to contend or wrangle for a competent maintenance in lieu of preaching, or for Tithes, calling them Christs wages; This manifests another spirit then was in the true Prophets, Apostles, and Ministers of Christ, who called all to come freely, without money, and without price, and gave freely as they had freely received. But as there were false Pro­phets in Israel, even so there are also false Prophets in Eng­land, whose hearts are exercised with covercous practises; and who have forsaken the right way in these last days and perilous times; and many have followed their pernicious ways, by reason of whom, the way of truth is evil spoken of. And these men in the ears of deluded people, are cry­ing up the Church and Ordinances, Baptism, Sacrament, Preaching, Praying, and Singing, even as the Jews did of old, the Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord, when they themselves were even destroyed for want of knowledge. But the Lord hath raised up a light in the hearts of Ten thousands of his Saints, whereby they are comprehended, judged, and condemned, and turned away from them that have gotten the words without the life; the form, but not the power; the shadow, and not the substance; the sign, but not the seal. There was indeed a time of ignorance, a day that was neither clear, nor dark; in the which we were led aside by these dumb Idol-shepherds, till God command­ed the light to shine out of darkness, and shined into our [Page 31]hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glorious Gospel, Church, and Ordinances, in the face of Jesus Christ, of whom we had heard, and on whom we had believed: And being justified by faith, we have peace with God; Heb. 11.6. and without faith its impossible to please God.

Fulw. Faith you say is required in Baptism, and that ren­ders Infants capable thereof; for though Faith be required, this doth not render Infants uncapable of Baptism; for chil­dren were capable of Circumcision, and yet Circumcision was a sign and seal of the Righteousness of Faith.

Answ. Their Circumcision made with hands was a sign, Rom. 4. but not a seal; for what saith the Scripture, Abraham be­lieved God, and it was counted to him for righteousness, not when he was in Circumcision, but when he was in uncir­cumcision, and he received the sign of Circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of faith, which he had when he was un­circumcised. The Circumcision of the heart is the seal, Ezek. 20.12. & 10. and the Circumcision with hands was the sign of that seal, as the Sabbath was given to Israel for a sign of that Everlast­ing Sabbath, which is prepared for the people of God. But now, neither Circumcision nor uncircumcision availeth any thing, but a new Creature; neither doth the figure of Water-baptism, nor Sprinkling of Infants which is no figure, seal, nor sign, avail any thing, 1 Pet 3.21. but the keeping of the Com­mandments of God; for when the Gentiles that have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves, Rom. 2. shew­ing the effect of the Law written in their hearts, &c. There­fore if the uncircumsion keep the righteousness of the Law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for Circumcision? for that is not Circumcision which is outward, Phil. 3.3. but that of the heart in the Spirit, and not in the Letter; for they onely are the Circumcision that worship God in the Spirit, and have no confidence in the flesh, and they only know the true Baptism, that are come to the answer of a good conscience towards God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, who are buried with him in Baptism, Eph. 4.30. and quickned together with him, and sealed up by the Spirit of promise, until the day of redemption.

And if this be all the proof can be alleaged for the bap­tising of Infants, by the Teachers of the World, and their upholders, the Author of this Book, their Foundation is on the Sand; for neither can they prove that Christ com­manded to baptize Infants with water; nor that it came in the room of circumcision, or that it is either Sign or Seal of the Righteousness of Faith, unless we should believe what they conceive or imagine for a truth, which few will do that have their sences exercised by reason of use to discern be­tween truth and error, the power of godliness and the form, and have had experience of the deceit of such as now are gone forth into the world, Matth. 15.9. who teach for doctrine the traditions of men.

Something also was spoken about singing Davids Condi­tions in Rime and Meeter, which I then opposed and denied the practise of, as they were by these Poets or Fidlers, Stern­hold, Hopkins, and others, Translated into English Meeter, with apt Notes to be sung in the Church and Chappels, so called, before their Morning and Evening Prayers, and For­mal Preaching; which while the people are singing, they uncover their heads; as if the Scriptures were more holy and honorable since these men perverted them, by putting them into Meeter, then they were before, as they were spoken forth by him who was a holy man after Gods own heart, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

But all your Songs will the Lord God of Sabbath sudden­ly turn into weeping and howling, mourning and bitter la­mentation: Although for a season these men of the World, whose portion is in this life, may make merry over the wit­ness, and put far away the evil day; who lie upon their Beds of Ivory, and stretch themselves on the Couches, that eat the Lambs out of the flock, and the Calves out of the midst of the stall, that chant to the sound of the Viol, and invent to themselves instruments of Musick like David, who sings lyes in the Name of the Lord, calling him to witness that they are not puft in minde, when they are so proud, heady, high-minded and scornful, that without disdain they can scarcely one look upon another, and especially if any [Page 33]that witnesseth Davids conditions come in among them, that cannot bow to their will-worship, but stand a witness against them. If they do not smite with the fist of wicked­ness, they will be sure to smite with the tongue in scorn and derision, with the name of Quaker, or some other invent­ed, reproachful term, as their forefathers, who said they were of Abraham, did with Christ and his Ministers, that declared against their customs and traditions; away with such a fellow say they, It is not fit he should live upon the earth, he brings in customs not lawful to be observed. You that are guilty, apply this to your selves, and be you witnesses against your selves, that you are the children of them that killed the Prophets, crucified Christ, and persecuted his Mi­nisters; though you may profess their words, and cover your selves with their cloathing, their life you are strangers unto; and we are even become your enemies because we tell you the truth. The last thing, as it is also in the Relation, was about the plain language of Scripture, as thee or thou to a particular person.

Fulw. This is but the translation, and it was indifferent for the Translators to have translated it you or thou, the original will suffer either.

Ans. Let that of God in thy conscience, and all who know the original, be witnesses against thee for a lier; it had never been written nor translated to the natural mans under­standing; the original is pure, even the Word of God, which was in the beginning before transgression was, and when the world was all of one Language, before the dispersing of Babels builders: And this word is the original, and not the confounded Tongues and Languages of the Nations of this World, that are under the vail yet untaken away; and they that speak not according to this Word, are such as rebel against the light; and those who are in darkness, call the Hebrew and Greek the Original, and have erred from the right way, not knowing the Scripture, nor the power of God; for the natural man by his faln wisdom, perceives not the things of the Spirit of God; and evil men and se­ducers are grown worse and worse: Therefore its more rea­son [Page 34]that those who are not come to a perfect understanding of the thing that was in the beginning, should believe the Scripture as it is translated, rather then such Dreamers and Diviners as set up their ancient Heathenish customs above the Scripture; or the rule declared of in Scripture: Did not God himself use the same expressions unto Adam, and A­dam unto him again, Gen. 3. And also to Abraham, and A­braham to him again, Gen. 18. And likewise to Moses, and Moses to him again, Exod. 33. And also to Jeremiah, a true Prophet, and Jeremiah to him again, Jere. 11. And to Jonah, and Jonah to him again, Jonah 4. And Christ Jesus the end of the Prophets, to his Father used these expressions, John 17. with a cloud of witnesses that might be instanced, if it were required, that this is the pure Language to one par­ticular person.

Fulw. Pray let me take occasion to minde you, when these expressions of thee and thou have their use in custom; name­ly in two cases, First, In a way of great familiarness, as to our very intimate, or those much below us. Secondly, In way of great reverence and distance as to God, and to a Prince; but in neither of these senses do you use them.

Answ. Can the Blackmoor change his skin, or the Leo­pard his spots? then may those who are accustomed to lye, and to do evil be changed: Although we do not use these words as a custom, yet we use them with reverence and god­ly fear, both unto God, and to our Superiors, Equals, and Inferiors, in love and familiarily, and not with respect to the persons of Princes, or any other that seeks honor from men. And those that are our intimate friends in the truth, are not offended at the expression, but they that are at a distance, and strangers to the Covenant of Promise, and aliens to the Commonwealth of Israel cry out against us, as being di­verse in our Laws and Customs from all other people. This is a custom not lawful to be observed say they, Come let us expel them out of our coasts, 1 Cor. 11.16. these contentious men, we have no such custom; these familiar expressions cannot be borne in our Country: And therefore we deny to contend for such indifferent things as these people make conscience of, [Page 35]who place Religion in words; and even thus the brutish Pastor slights not onely the words of truth and soberness, but also the weightier matters of the Law which God hath required, Judgment, Mercy, and Humility; and by their lyes and lightness have they caused many to forsake the right way, and to follow their devised fables, traditions, and hea­thenish customs, instead of true and sound Doctrine.

To the substance of what passed that day in the Dispute, thus much in answer in brief, for the Reasons above men­tioned. And where as the Relation saith, one went one way, and an other another way, as if nothing had been spoken but in the Dispute. It may be taken notice of, that after Francis Fulwood and his company was gone, our meet­ing continued a pretty season, and a door of utterance was given me afterwards, to speak to the people for their further satisfaction in things that lay dark, as a difference between us in the dispute, and something for their further information and edification; and so our meeting was for the better, and not for the worse, and according to order the Assembly was dismist at that time.

Come down and sit in the dust, ye Marchants of Babylon, Isai. 3.3. and all ye cunning Artificers and eloquent Orators that long have traded with the Saints words, sit silent, and get you into darkness; for no more is your persons to be had in ad­miration, because of advantage, Gird your selves with Sack­cloth, ye Ministers of the Letter, and hired Parish Teach­ers, that have long used your tongues, and said, Ezek 34. Thus faith the Lord, when the Lord never spoke unto you. Yet have sed your selves with the fat, and cloathed your selves with the wooll; you have drunk of the deep wate [...]s, and have fouled the residue with your seet, and the poor of the flock have eaten that which ye have troden down, and drunk that which ye have fouled with your feet. Be ye ashamed, O ye Husbandmen, for the Seed is even rotten under the clods; weep and howl ye pretended Vine-dressers, for the Vineyard is over-grown with thorns, bryers, and fruitless Trees; the day of your visitation is come, the trumpet is sounded in Zion, and an alarum is heard in the holy Mountain of the [Page 36]Lord. Let all the children of the West tremble, be afraid ye sinners in Zion, and let fearfulness take hold of all deceitful hypocrites; the Lords controversie is against the false Pro­phet, and Idol-shepherd; the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye; [...]ch. 11.7. his right arm shall be quite dryed up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkned; for the Lord is arising in his glorious Majesty, to shake terribly the Earth, and to bring down the mighty from their seats, and to exalt that of low degree. The time is come, that iniquity shall have an end, the Crown shall be removed, and the Diadem taken away; the thrones of iniquity shall be cast down, that the antient of days may sit, to whom all judgement is com­mitted; the government must be upon his shoulders, that he alone may rule and reign, even the Captain of our Sal­vation, and Prince of our Peace, who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, God over all, blessed for ever.

The flying Angel is gone forth with the Everlasting Gos­pel, [...]ev. 14. to preach unto all Kinreds, Tongues, and Languages of the Nations; and unto you hath the Call reached, that long hath groaned under the dominion and oppression of the Prince of the air; the hour cometh, and now is, in the which the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and he that heareth shall live. Arise and shine, for you light is come, you that long have slept in the dust of the earth, ac­cept of deliverance: Come forth of the prison houses, shew your selves; salvation and strength is come, the Kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ; the knowledge of the glory of God is arising that shall cover the face of the Earth, as the waters cover the Sea: Seek not ye the living among the dead; for in vain is salvation hoped for or ex­pected from the Mountains, or from the Hills; it is laid up­on him that is mighty, even able to save to the uttermost, all those that come to the Father by him. Therefore cease from man whose breath is in his nostrils, and heap not up unto your selves Teachers, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, for many false Prophets are gone forth into the world in these last days and perilous times: But God who at sundry times, and divers manners, spake to the Fathers [Page 37]by his servants, the true Prophets, hath in these last days spoken by his Son, whom he hath appointed to be heir of all things, by whom also he made the world, whose day A­braham saw and rejoyced; of whom he hath said, Let all the Angels of God worship him; And if the word spoken by Angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobe­dience, received a just recompence of reward, how can ye escape, who neglect this great salvation. O that you knew in this your day the things that belong unto your peace, which so long have been hid from your eyes: A Prophet hath God raised up unto you like unto Moses, and Pastors hath he sent forth according to his own heart; rising up early, and sitting down late, saying, Turn ye, turn ye, why will you die? He that hath an ear, let him hear; this is the day of Zions deliverance, the Lord is gathering in the out­casts of Israel, and the dispersed from among the Gentiles; and out of the heaps of rubbish is he raising up living stones to build unto himself a Spiritual house; and other Founda­tions can no man lay then that which is already laid, Jesus Christ, the Rock of Ages, the same yesterday, to day, and for ever, who is now come a light into the world; and who­soever believeth on him shall never be ashamed. This is our God, we have waited for him, who by his own arm hath brought Salvation and plenteous Redemption, who came and preached peace to us, that sometimes were afar off, and hath shined into our hearts by the light of the glorious Gospel, and hath made us nigh by the blood of the Ever­lasting Covenant: To whom be glory and honor through­out all ages, world without end. Amen.

Tho. Salthouse.

IF Ja. Godfreys Queries to Geo. Pitt, which is added to this Relation, had been all answered; then F. F. might have expected an answer to his Counter-queries; but I shall leave them to him to whom they were directed, That if he see any thing worth an answer, he may write to it, if he be free. And seeing they are of so little weight, arising onely from a busie minde, 1 Tim. 6. I shall take the counsel of such a one as Paul the aged in this particular, to shun prophane and vain bablings, which genders strife, and tends to more ungodliness, not doting about questions and strife of words, whereof cometh envies, evil furmising, and perverse disputing with men of corrupt mindes, reprobate concerning the Faith, and destitute of the truth, who do suppose that gain is godliness. But to me it is no advantage to fight with Beasts, if the dead do not rise; neither would I be found as one beating the air, or boasting in another mans line, or answering a fool in his fol­ly: But if any ask a reason of the hope that is in me, I am and shall be ready with meekness and fear, to give an answer as God gives a mouth and wisdom, whose counsel and di­rection I still wait for. And so unto him in weldoing I commit the keeping of my soul, as unto a faithful Creator.

Tho. Salthouse.

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