SIr, I rejoyce much at our so hap­py meeting in this place; I hope leisure will now permit us to conferre of these times, and the proceedings of the High Court of Parliament, in setling the disorders in this State; and such a forme of governement in the Church, as I hope will be congruent to the sence and true mea­ning of the Word of God.

Sir, I joy as much as you for our mee­ting, and I hope we may spend a little time in dis­course of those things you have mentioned; I con­ceive it will not be lost time, nor much hinderance to our other occasions. And under favour Sir, pray what thinke you of the proceedings of the Parlia­ment, concerning Church Government, and Ec­clesiasticall discipline.

A Parliament, pray Sir, what meane you by the word, and what is the signification thereof?

The word is compounded of, and de­rived from the French and Latine words; as I con­ceive, Parle Mentis, which I understand signifies a [Page 2] speech of the Minde, contracted Parlement or Par­liament; and I meane thereby a Councell of grave and learned men, congregated and assembled by their Princes command and authority, to consult and debate freely, speaking clearely what is their minde and intentions; such things tending to the safety and prosperity of their King and Countrey, and what forme of Governement is meetest to bee used in the Church, in the exercise of Religion.

I conceive your definition of the word is good, but I desire to know whether it bee in the power of such a Councell or Parliament, to alter the Governement of a Church, established and con­firmed for severall ages together in a Kingdome, both by the Princes thereof successively, and a whole Councell of State gathered together, and assembled in Parliament.

To answer your request: I conceive it is in the power of a Parliament, with their Princes consent, to alter the Governement of the Church; I can give you instances of the same: The Romish Religion was a long time in this Kingdome practi­sed and professed, confirmed by severall Kings and Parliaments of this Land, untill the 28. yeare of the raigne of Henry 8. Then did that Prince and his Parliament begin to alter the Governement of the Church, and in the 31. of his raigne hee perfected his intentions in a totall change of the Government thereof: Abolished and demolished all places of worship, according to the doctrine and discipline of the Church of Rome, as Abbies, Monasteries, [Page 3] Priories, Nunneries, and the like: the lands and demeanes appertaining to the same were given to the Crown; as also the worship it selfe. This forme of Government (attended onely with some Cere­monies of the Church of Rome) continued this Kings raigne till Edward 6. in whose raigne was a further and more perfecter change in the Governe­ment of the Church then before. Now was Bibles and other Divine bookes ordained by the King and his great Councell to be translated into the English tongue; a forme of Common-prayer made and con­firmed by Parliament to bee used in the English tongue; the administration of the Eucharist, and the Sacrament of Baptisme, used according as in the Ancient and Primitive Church; which forme of government and worship of God is now called the Protestant Religion. This Government and Alteration continued but a small time, till the raigne of Queene Mary, who againe reduced Pope­ry to its height in this Kingdome. This change con­tinued till Queen Elizabeth of blessed memory, who againe set up the Protestant Church, which hath ever since till of late flourished in this Kingdome; and thus you plainly see a Parliament may with the consent of their Prince, alter the Government of the Church, and the discipline thereof, to that forme which the Prince stands most affected too.

But pray Sir, if a Catholique Prince come to raigne over a Kingdome, wherein the Protestant Religion is altogether professed and established: Is it then in the power of the Parliment, without the [Page 4] consent of the King, to make Lawes and Ordinan­ces for the confirmation of their Religion, in the Government, Doctrine, and Discipline thereof.

This question is difficult to be resol­ved, and I cannot punctually determine thereof; but I conceive, if over such a State there bee such a Prince, that is not a native of that Kingdome, a Par­liament of the whole State assembled, may without his consent establish and confirme the ancient Laws and Statutes of the Kingdome, for the Government of the Church and State. But whether it be so, if a native Prince, I cannot certainly resolve.

I verily beleeve the Parliament hath pow­er and authority to change upon occasion the Go­vernment of the Church in contrary Religions, as before is inst [...]ced; but I am not yet satisfied whe­ther a Parliament, either with consent of the Prince, or without, can alter a forme of Governe­ment established in a Kingdome, concerning one Religion, be it the Protestant or other.

To answer this, I conceive the Do­ctrine of the Church cannot be altered, for then we doe change our Religion, and are not of the same as before, but of a new; but the Government and Dis­cipline of a Church may be changed, according as the wisdome and policy of the State shall finde the same convenient or inconvenient, hurtfull or com­modious for the same.

Nay, the Titles, Places and Offices of men of holy Order be at the pleasure of a Parliament, changed, or quite taken away; being of such antiqui­ty [Page 5] in the Church, as Lord Bishops, Bishops, Arch­deacons, De [...]es, Prebends, and the like.

I conceive their Titles may bee chan­ged, or taken away; as Lords Bishops, Archdea­cons, &c. for no such names are to be found in the Scripture, or by the same warranted: Their places of both Temporall and spirituall Jurisdiction (as they are made the onely Governours of the Church and of the State too) may if a State finde them hurt­full and prejudiciall to the same, be taken away and changed; but for their Spirituall functions and offi­ces of Bishops or Presbyters, I conceive the same cannot be changed or taken away with-safety or se­curity; But the sole power and jurisdiction in go­vernment of the Church may be taken from parti­cular persons, (and assistance of grave Divines joy­ned with them in the same) as the wisdome of the Parliament shall see me meet.

But may a State Politique and Civill change the government of the Church, and establish a new sonnic of government in the same, without ad­vise of a Councell or Synod of Divines that are grave and learned, elected and chosen out of every County of the Kingdome, and their consents to the change of government in the Church?

I conceive the Parliament, as it is an Assembly of Lay men, and none of them in holy Order, cannot of its selfe change the government of a Church, without advise and consent of the Clergy: But I beleeve it is in the sole power of Parliament to make choyce of such Divines as shall [Page 6] informe them concerning what Government and Discipline is most convenient for the Church, and what not.

Then cannot a Synod or Convocation of the Clergy be assembled without authority of Par­liament, and what Ordinances is made in the same by them are of no validity, without confirmation by the King and Parliament.

No truly, I beleeve there cannot; and what is done by a Synod or Convocation, without consent and confirmation of King and Parliament, is not binding to the Subject. And now thanking you lovingly for your good discourse, I must take my leave of you till another time; wishing all things may be done in Parliament to the honour of God, firme establishment of true Religion, and such a forme of government in the Church, as may be agreeble to the Word of God, and the setling of peace and unity in all his Majesties King­domes.

Amen. God be with you Sir till out next meeting.

I thanke you heartily.