A SPEECH DELIVERED AT A CONFERENCE with the LORDS. January, XXV. MDCXLI.
By occasion of the PETITIONS from the Citie of LONDON, and the Counties of Middlesex, Essex, and Hertford.
By IOHN PYM, Esquire.
Published by Order of the HOUSE of COMMONS.
WHERETO Are annexed two ORDERS of the said HOUSE.
THE ONE, Containing the Thankes of the HOVSE, given to those of HERTFORDSHIRE.
THE OTHER, For punishing of those who printed a false Copie of that PETITION, and other libellous Pamphlets.
Printed at LONDON by R. Oulton. and G. Dexter, for John Rothwell, and are to be sold at the Signe of the Sun in Pauls Church-yard. 1641.
JANƲARY 25. 1641.
At a Conference betwixt both Houses, concerning divers Petitions presented to the House of Commons; Mr. PYM appointed to manage that CONFERENCE.
I Am commanded by the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses assembled for the Commons in Parliament, to present to your Lordships divers Petitions, which they have received from severall parts concerning the State of the Kingdome: whereunto they are chiefly moved by that constant Affection, which they have alwayes exprest, of maintaining a firme union and good correspondence with your Lordships; wherein they have ever found much advantage, and contentment; but never held it more important & necessary, then at this time, wherein the Wisdome and Resolution of Parliament, have as many great Dangers and Difficulties to passe through, as ever heretofore.
We are united in the publique trust, which is derived from the Common-wealth in the common Dutie and Obligation whereby God doth bind us to the discharge of that trust: and the Commons desire to impart to your Lordships whatsoever Information or Intelligence, whatsoever Incouragement or Assistance they have received from those severall Countries, which they represent, that so likewise wee may be united in the same Intentions and Endeavours of improving all to the service of his Majestie, and the common good of the Kingdome.
The Petitions which I am directed to communicate to your Lordships, are foure: from London, Midlesex, Essex and Hertfordshire. We have received many more, but it would take up too much time, and be too great a trouble to peruse all; and, in these foure, you may perceive the Effect and Sense of all: First, I am to desire your Lordships to heare them read, and then I shall persue my Instructions in propounding some Observations out of them.
TO THE HONOURABLE THE KNIGHTS, CITIZENS and BƲRGESSES, of the House of COMMONS assembled in PARLIAMENT.
The humble Petition and Answer of the Major, Aldermen, and the rest of the Common Councell of the Citie of LONDON.
THat the Committee of this Honourable House upon Saturday the 22. of this instant Ianuary, sent a message to the Petitioners for the loane of one hundred thousand pounds, or of so much thereof as could conveniently be forth with raised, for levying of forces to suppresse the Rebells in Ireland, To which Message something was then answered, and a further answer in writing promised.
In performance whereof they humbly present the answer following, together with the Reasons thereof, desiring that the same (being the best that for the present they are able to give) may favourably be accepted.
And they shall ever pray, &c.
The Answer.
THe Petitioners are duely and deeply sensible of the great miseries of their Brethren in Ireland, and of the eminent danger, not onely of the totall losse of that Kingdome, but of the ruine of this also, if that of Ireland should (which God forbid) be lost. And as they have hitherto shewed themselves ready, even beyond their abilities to serve the King and Parliament; so shall they ever continue to the utmost of their power, with all cheerefulnes and duty. But at the present they are compelled to repeat their former Answer; That they have no power to raise any Summes by way of Tax for any forreigne use; and doe further answer that they have no meanes to doe it, otherwise then by the immediate personall Consent of every particular Lender, which they cannot hope to obtaine in regard of these obstructions following: Which the Petitioners humbly present, together with this their further Answere, as the Reasons thereof.
1. That immediately before the Parliament and sithence divers great Summes for the service of the King and Kingdome have beene already lent by the Citizens [Page 5] of London, besides 50000. l. for the supply of Ireland, in particular; a great part whereof some of the Lenders were compelled to borrow, and cannot to this day repay.
2. That such part of those moneyes as are already due to the Citizens from the Parliament, and should have bin repaid out of the Pole-moneyes and Subsidies, is not yet done, because there is not any considerable summe come in from the Countrey as was expected to satisfie the same.
3. That the said 50000 l. lent for Ireland was hastened and speedily paid within neare about 2000 l upon this ground then urged by the Parliament; that if it were forth with lent, it might be of more use to preserve that Kingdome then the lone of 200000 l. could be, if deferred but six Weeks; yet no considerable Forces are sent thither to this day. And we find that men will not be willing to lend any thing till they be assured that a good strength be sent thither with full Commission to relieve London Derry and other parts of that Kingdome.
4. The generall withholding of very great Summes of money from the Petitioners, and many others, which moneys have beene long due, not onely from Chapmen and other debtors in England; but from very many in Ireland (who owe many hundred Thousands of Pounds to the Citizens of London) doth render divers persons of good, Estates and credit hardly able to goe on with Trade; or to pay their debts and maintain their Charge.
5. The Brotherly offer of Scotland to send 10000 men into Jreland, not yet so accepted as to produce any reliefe to that bleeding Kingdome, while yet our Brethren are dayly massacred there, discourageth most men from lending any Money, were they never so able.
6. The not passing the Bil for pressing of soldiers here, whereby such forces as are requisit might be timely sent from hence into Ireland, puts many men into feares, that there may be some designe rather to lose that Kingdom, and to consume this in the losing of Ireland, than to preserve either the one or the other; for that it cannot be conceived, that the Rebells (being growne so powerfull) will be suppressed by volunteires.
7. The slow issuing of Commissions to those who being in Ireland, or going thither, are willing to enter the field against the Rebells, disables them from doing any effectuall execution upon the enemy, unlesse in their owne defence; and so all the monies that have beene, or may be sent thither, are exhausted to maintaine our forces to doe little or nothing worthy of them, rather then imployed to chastise the Rebells, and to reduce them to obedience, by meanes whereof the number and power of the Rebels are greatly encreased, divers castles and townes are by them taken, much Protestant blood is daily spilt, many thousand families destroyed, the malignant part of Papists and their adherents here are encouraged, and those Rebells so much inboldened, that they boast, they will extirpate the British Nation there, and then make England the seat of warre.
8. The not disarming of Papists here in England, after many discoveries of their treacheries, and bloody designes upon the Parliament and Kingdome, the great decays of Fortifications, Blockhouses & other Sea-forts, the not managing of them, nor furnishing them with Ordinance and Ammunition, the not placing all of them in such hands in whom the Parliament may confide, and the not settling this Kingdome in a posture of defence, in times of so many feares and jealousies of forreigne [Page 7] invasions and intestine conspiracies, the not removing the present Lievtenant of the Tower, and putting such a person into that place, as may be well approved by the Parliament, notwithstanding the earnest petitions exhibited to this honorable House for that purpose, which hath produced a forbearance to bring Bullion into the Tower in this time of scarcitie of monies; all which cannot but overthrow trading more & more, and make monies yet more scarce in the City and Kingdome.
9. The Kings Ships which ought to be a wall of defence to this Kingdome, and a convay to the Merchants (for which Tonnage and Poundage was granted) are not fitted and imployed, as the present condition of this Kingdome and Ireland requires, but some of them for the conveying away of Delinquents, who durst not abide the test of the Parliament, to the great encouragement of the rest of the malignant party here, who when their designes and themselves be detected, know how to escape the hand of Iustice through the abuse of a Royall conduct.
10. The not questioning those many thousands of unknown persons, who are sheltered in Cove [...]garden, and thereabouts, which doe not imploy themselves in any lawfull calling, and it's very probable, lye in a readinesse to adventure upon some desperate attempt, to the endangering of the welfare, peace and safety of the Kings Majestie, Parliament and Citie.
11. The misunderstanding betweene the King and Parliament, the not vindicating the priviledges of Parliament, the not suppressing of Protections, the not punishing of Delinquents, and the not executing of all Priests and Iesuites, legally condemned, while others contrary to priviledge of Parliament have beene illegally [Page 8] (as the Petitioners conceive) charged with Treason, to the deterring of worthy Members from discharging their duties, and to the destroying of the very being of Parliaments, doe exceedingly fill the mindes of men well affected to the publike, with many feares and discouragements throughout the Kingdome, and so disable them from that cheerfull assistance which they would be glad to afford.
12. By meanes of the Premisses there is such decay of trading, and such scarcity of money (neither of which can be cured, till the former Evills be removed) as it is likely in very short time, to cast innumerable multitudes of poore Artificers into such a depth of povertie and extremitie, as may enforce them upon some dangerous and desperate attempts, not fit to be expressed, much lesse to be justified: which they leave to the wisdome of this House speedily to consider and prevent.
These are the Evils under which the Petitioners doe exceedingly labour and languish which they humbly conceive to have sprung from the imploying of ill affected persons in places of Trust and Honour in the State, and neere to the sacred person of his Majestie; and that these Evils are still continued by meanes of the Votes of Bishops and Popish Lords in the House of Peeres.
And now, that the Petitioners have faithfully represented the true Reasons which dooreally enforce them to returne this answer, most of which have beene formerly offered to this Honourable House in sundry Petitions; and that they have done all that in them lies (even beyond all president) to serve the King, Parliament and Kingdome; They humbly crave leave to protest before God and the high Court of Parliament that if any further miserie, [...]e Copie [...] Midlesex [...]tition [...]s never [...]nted, and [...]rfore not [...]erted. befall their deare brethren in Ireland, or if any mischiefe shall breake in upon this Kingdome, to the endangering or disturbing thereof, it ought not to be i [...]p [...]t [...]a to the Petitioners, but only to such as shall endeavour to hinder the effectuall and speedy cure of the evills before recited, that so much disable and discourage the Petitioners from doing that which by this honourable House is desired of them.