The humble PETITION OF THE MINISTERS Of the Church of England desiring Re­formation of certain Ceremonies and abuses of the Church: with the ANSWER Of the Vicechancelor, the Doctors, both the Proctours, and other the Heads of Houses, in the Vniversity of OXFORD.

Printed Anno, 1641.

To the Kings most Excellent Maiestie.
The humble Petition of the Mini­sters of the Church of England, desiring Reformation, of certain Cere­monies and abuses of the Church.

MOst Gracious and dread Sovereigne, seeing it hath pleased the divine Majesty, to the great comfort of all good Christians, to advance your Highnesse, according to your just title, to the peaceable government of this Church and Commonwealth of Eng­land: wee the Ministers of the Gospell in this Land, neither as factious men, affecting a popular Paritie in the Church, nor as Schismaticks ayming at the dissolution of [Page 2]the State Ecclesiasticall: but as the faithfull servants of Christ, and loyall subjects to your Majestie, desiring and longing for the redresse of divers abuses of the Church, could do no lesse, in our obe­dience to God, service to your Majesty, love to his Church, then ac­quaint your Princely Majesty with our particular griefs. For as your Princely pen writeth, The King as a good Physician, must first know what peccant humours his patient natu­rally is most subject unto; before hee can begin his cure: And although divers of us that sue for Reformation, have for­merly in respect of the times subscribed to the book, some upon Protestation, some upon exposition given them, some with condi­tion, rather then the Church should have beene deprived of their labour and Ministery: yet now we, to the number of more then a Thousand, of your Majesties Subiects and Ministers, all groan­ing as under a common burden of humane Rites and Ceremo­nies, do with one joynt consent humble our selves at your Maje­sties feet, to be eased and relieved in this behalf. Our humble suit then unto your Maiesty is, that these offences following, some may be removed, some amended, some qualified.

1 In the Church Service.

That the Crosse in Baptisme, Interrogatories ministred to In­fants, Confirmation as superfluous, may be taken away. Baptisme not to be ministred by Women, and so explaned. The Cap and Surplice not urged. That examination may goe before the Com­munion. That it be ministred with a Sermon. That divers terms of Priests, and Absolution, and some other used, with the Ring in Marriage, and other such like in the book, may be corrected. The long-somnesse of service abridged. Church-songs and Mu­sick moderated to better edification. That the Lords day be not prophaned. The rest upon Holydayes not so strictly urged. That [Page 3]there may be an uniformity of doctrine prescribed. No Popish o­pinion to be any more taught or defended. No Ministers charged to teach their people to bow at the Name of Jesus. That the Cano­nicall Scriptures onely be read in the Church.

2 Concerning Church Ministers.

That none hereafter be admitted into the Ministery, but able and sufficient men, and those, to preach diligently; and especially upon the Lords day. That such as be already entred and cannot preach, may either be removed, and some charitable course taken with them for their reliefe: or else to be forced, according to the value of their livings, to maintain Preachers. That Non-re­sidency be not permitted. That King Edwards Statute for the lawfulnesse of Ministers marriage be revived. That Ministers be not urged to subscribe, but, according to the Law, to the Arti­cles of Religion, and the Kings Supremacy onely.

3 For Churchlivings and maintenance.

That Bishops leave their Commendams: some holding Prebends, some Parsonages, some Vicarages with their Bisho­pricks. That double-beneficed men be not suffered to hold, some two, some three Benefices with Cure, and some two, three, or foure dignities besides. That Impropriations annexed to Bishopricks and Colleges, be demised only to the Preachers Incumbents, for the old Rent. That the Impropriations of Laymens fee, may be charged with a sixt or seventh part of the worth, to the maynte­nance of the preaching Minister.

4 For Church Discipline.

That the Discipline, and Excommunication may be admi­nistred according to Christs own institution. Or at the least, that enormities may be redressed. As namely, That Excommunication come not forth under the name of lay persons, Chancellours, Of­ficials; &c. That men be not excommunicated for trifles and twelve peny matters. That none be excommunicated without con­sent of his Pastor. That the Officers be not suffered to extort un­reasonable fees. That none having jurisdiction or Register places, put out the same to farm. That divers Popish Canons, (as for re­straint of marriage at certain times) be reversed. That the long­somnesse of suits in Ecclesiasticall courts, (which hang sometime two, three, foure, five, six or seven years) may be restrained. That the Oath ex Officio, whereby men are forced to accuse themselves be more sparingly used. That licenses for mariage without Banes asked, be more cautiously granted.

These with such other Abuses yet remayning and practised in the Church of England, we are able to shew, not to be agreeable to the Scriptures, if it shall please your Highnesse further to heare us, or more at large by writing to be enformed, or by conference among the learned to be resolved. And yet we doubt not, but that without any farther processe, your Majesty (of whose Chri­stian judgement we have received so good a tast already) is able of your selfe to judge of the equity of this cause. God wee trust hath appointed your Highnesse our Physician, to heale these diseases. And we say with Mordecay to Hester, who knoweth, whe­ther you are come to the Kingdome for such a time? Thus your Majesty shall do that, which we are perswaded, shall be ac­ceptable to God, honorable to your Majestie in all succeeding ages, profitable to his Church which shall be thereby encreased, comforta­ble [Page 5]to your Ministers, which shall be no more suspended, silenced, disgraced, imprisoned for mens traditions: and prejudiciall to none, but to those that seeke their own quiet, credit, and profit in the World. Thus with all dutifull submission, referring our selves to your Majesties pleasure, for your gracious answer, as God shall direct you, we most humbly recommend your Highnesse to the di­vine Majesty; whom we beseech for Christ his sake to dispose your royall heart to doe herein, what shall be to his glory, the good of his Church, and your endlesse comfort.

Your Majesties most humble Subjects.
The Ministers of the Gospell, that desire not a disorderly Innovation, but a due and godly Reformation.

The Answer of the Vicechancelor, the Doctours, both the Proctours, and other the Heads of Houses in the Vniver­sity of OXFORD, To the Petition of the Ministers of the Church of England desiring Reformation.

In their Petition, there are three principall parts.

  • 1 A Preface.
  • 2 A Complaint consisting of foure speciall points; In every of them they desire, that certain Ceremonies and Abuses may be, some of them removed, some amended, some qualified.
  • 3 A Conclusion.

For answer whereunto:

1 In Generall.

WE most humbly beseech his most excellent Majesty, that it may be considered, how inconvenient and unsufferable it is in Christian poli­cie, to permit a long and well set­led state of government, to be so much as questioned, much more to beIpsa mutatio consuctud. nis ctiam quae adju­vat utilitate, novitate pertur­bat August. ad I anuar. ep. 118. cap. 5. altered, for a few of his sub­jects: especially considering the matter, pretended to be the cause of these mens grief, and of their desired Reformation, unjustly so called. For it is either the Ceremonies of the Church, or Abuses in the Church, as they alleage. Wherein wee humbly recom­mend to his Princely remembrance.

First, concerning Ceremonies, that they are either su­perstitious; and then no ways to be admitted. Of which sort it should seem by the Petitioners, (and we are ready to prove) that the Ceremonies of our Church are not. Because these men confesse, that in respect of the times they did subscribe unto them: or if they were such, with what cōscience did they subscribe, in respect of the times?

Or else, things in themselves indifferent. And then the supream Christian Magistrate hath lawfullMelan. in 13 ad Rom. Pecca­tum mortale est violare edicta Magistrat. &c. Heming. in Syn­tag. c. de A­diaph. Qui vio­lat Ecclesiasti­cam politiam peccat multis modis, &c. Bez. Epist. 24. ad artic. 7. authoritie to forbid, and wee must forbeare: to command, and wee must obey; not onely for feare, but for conscience sake. Of which kind if these Ceremonies be (as we will justi­fie, and they cannot deny) where is then their pretended obedience? Where is their applause of his Majesties peaceable government? Why doe they trouble both Church & Commonwealth, in respect of matters which in duty and conscience they may well, and ought willing­ly to submit themselves unto?

Secondly concerning Abuses, be it considered: first of what quality they are; secondly, of what degree.

1 Touching the nature or quality of them, whether they are in the very Constitutions of our Church, or ra­ther in the Execution of the said Constitutions. If not in the Constitutions themselves, (as when wee descend to the particulars it will appeare:) there is no cause why the government should be changed; or these men suffered thus to calumniate the State, wherein there is nothing Positive, that is worthy of blame. If in the Execution; (which as we will not absolutely deny, so these men can­not easily prove,) that may be remedied by amending or removing of some certain offendors, without alteration of the State.

2 Touching the degree or grievousnesse of these a­buses, (whether in the constitution, as they suppose, and we deny; or in the Execution, which simply and in every particular,Calv. adv. A­nab art. 2. Vtri­que (sc. Cathari & Donatistae) in eodem errore fuerunt, Quo isti somniatores; Ec­clesiam quaeren­te, in qua nibd posset desiderari, &c. no Church in Christendome is able to justifie, and yet none, so much as this of ours:) we undert [...]e to prove against the Thousand, that maske unknown under that generality, that they are not such, nor so heynous, as deserve this their bitter reprehension: much lesse such an alteration, in the Church and Common wealth, as would ensue; if these Petitioners might have their desire.

2.In Particular.

Concerning the Preface.

We doe but note.

1 WHat reckoning (in truth) the men doe make; of just titles unto Kingdomes, who favour them [Page 9]soDe jure reg. apud Scot. De jur. Magist. in subd. Vind. cont. tyr. Hotto. Francog. much that were wont to subject all Kin gstitles unto popular election and approbation.

2 What comfort (indeed) the Petitioners take in the peace of his Majesties government; who in the very entrance thereof, by seeking this, and the like dangerous alterati­ons, doe disquiet and disturbe the same. Were other men as little inured to peace and subjection, it might occasion some inconvenience.

3 Howsoever in words they decline the imputation of factious men affecting popular parity in the Church, and of Schis­maticks ayming at the dissolution of the state Ecclesiasticall; yet it is too well known in this Kingdome, and by experi­ence it hath been felt in that of [...], pag. 39.40, 41, &c. Scotland, what manner of men they be: as also, what have been the lamentable effects of their Reformation there, and would have been likewise here, had not the prudent foresight and con­stant resolution of our late gracious Sovereigne conti­nually repressed their attempts.

4 These men might have performed better, Their obedience to God, their service to his Majesty, their love to his Church, (as in the particulars will appeare) if they had forborn to trouble his Majesty, the Church of God, and this Common-wealth, with these their causelesse griefs and discontentments. They have thereby made such a breach as will not easily (without much wisdome and patience) be cured. For what are these men, that they should assume so much? or what are the whole Clergy of England besides, that they should be so abased and contemned?

5 That which they alleage out of his Highnesse [...], is a childish fallacy; absurdly taking that for granted, which is the mayn question. They must prove [Page 10](and not assume) that these are the peccant humours of this Church, which in truth is theIuel. Apo. 170 Accessimus quantum maxi­me potuimus ad Ecclesiam Apost. &c. Et 46. Ea omnia quae aut super­stitiosa, &c. Aut cum sacris literis pugnan­tia, aut etiam sobriis homini­bus indigna, &c. prorsus sine ulla exceptione repu­diavimus. least peccant of any in the World, and would be much lesse peccant, if it were cleane purged, of these unquiet and malecontented hu­mours.

6 That diverse of them have formerly subscribed to the booke, (as skornfully they tearme it) doth manifestly evince, that either our Liturgie is justifiable, themselves being Judges; or els that they did liberally dispence with their own consciences, which is not the part of honest men. To doe that in respect of the times, which in it selfe is not lawful, proveth little lesse then hypocrisie: to alledge unknowne Protestations, expositions, and Conditions in their subscription, doth argue no sincerity; and upon due examination, will fall out to be nothing but meere fal­sitie.

7 As for their labours in the Ministery, be they such as they are. This Church of England had been happy if it had not beene troubled with their factious Sermons andMart. Mar. P. Miles monop. Hay any work and the rest of that spirit. scurrile Pamphlets: which have given the Adversary much matter of advantage, distracted the minds of many weake ones, and quite turned some other from the love of the Truth.

8 The number of more then a Thousand, is but a vizard, which we humbly intreat, may be pulled from their fa­ces, that we may see and know the men, that thus groane under the yoke of a Christian and commendable govern­ment; which (maliciously and injuriously) they would have reputed, a most heavy burden of humane Rites and Ce­remonies. The vanity of which their complaint, comes now more particularly to be discussed.

Concerning the matters of their Complaint:

1 Of the Church service.

1 IN the Church service we are ready to maintain, (but they must object first and prove the contrary) that theTert. de Cor. mil. cap. 3. Crosse in Baptisme, Aug. Ep. 23. Interrogatories ministred to In­fants, and Hieron. cont. Luc. confirmation, are most ancient, justifiable, and convenient Ceremonies, and therefore to bee con­tinued.

2 That the Church of England, nor the booke of Common prayer doth not prescribe, that Baptisme should be administred by women. Though we deny it not to beChytrae. de Bap. & in Lev. Sneph de Bap. Zuingl de Bap. Hicrbr. in Comp. Theol. Bap­tisme, if perchance de facto, it be by them administred. Fi­eri non debuit, factum valuit.

3 That the Cap and Surplice be not urged, it is an ab­surd speech and implies confusion. For so every man should be suffered in that behalfe to doe what him liketh. Again, do not their own words import that they may wel be used? but they must not be urged. why? what is there in a Cap or in a Surplice that shouldBuc. de revest. pag 707 Pet. Mart. Ep. ad Hap. Aug. Ep. 154. Calvi. in Ex. 23. offend any man of judgement.

4 That Examination where need is should goe be­fore the Communion, who disliketh? Or that it be ministred with a sermon? But that it should not bee ministred with­out a sermon, is absurd; and hath bred in many a vain and false opinion, as if, not the word of Christs institu­tion, but rather the word of a Ministers exposition, were aT. Cl. 1. p. 158 necessary and an essentiall part of the Communion. Besides he that readeth our Communion booke, shall see that therein the whole manner, end, and use of that holy Institution, is so excellently described, as may be insteed of many Sermons. Also that none should be admitted to [Page 12]that blessed Sacrament (of what age, state, or condition so ever) except they were first examined after the Con­sistorian fashion, were insolent, injurious, and in many re­spects most in convenient.

5 The terms ofIsay 66.21. Where the Ge­neva note doth shew, that the Ministers of the new Te­stament are to be tearmed Priests. Priests and Absolution: the Bucer. in Cen­sur. cap. 20. Ring in Mariage and such other, which they have heretofore tradu­ced in their unlearned discourses, are by divers of our learned Divines, and shall be justified. As contrariwise by the Petitioners they will never be evicted worthy to be abolished.

6 Their desire to have the long-somnesse of service abrid­ged doth well befit their great Devotion. Who not­withstanding are wont to spend an houre sometimes or little lesse, in extemporary, inconsequent, and senslesse prayers conceived rashly by themselves. From hence, their dislike of set and stinted formes of prayer, it doth proceed, that some of them omit, some refuse to repeat, some condemne the use of the Lords Prayer; from hence hath Barrow and Greenewood taken their beginning, and fetched the premisses of their pestilent and blasphemous Conclusions.

7 Church Iust Mart. in quaest. ad Orth. q. 107. Aug Confes. lib. 10. cap. 33. songs and Musique are much beholden to these men now: in as much as they can bee content to disgest them, so they be moderated to better edification. The time was when wee have heard them speake in this point after another sort. Meritricious Church Musicke, Tossing of tennis bals, and such like were their phrases of Gods divine service: but thanked be God that his Maje­sties devout affection in this kind hath forced from them this moderation.

8 That the Lords day be not prophaned, hee is verie prophane that desireth not from his heart. But what man­ner [Page 13]of lawgivers are they that lay downe their coustitu­tions in such Negatives, in such Comparatives? for who can divine what they would have, when they desire that the Rest upon Pet. Martyr. Epist. ad Hoppe­rum. Holy dayes be not so strictly urged? Would they have men upon such dayes goe to plough and cart, as some of their humor have caused their servants to do, on the very feast of Christs Nativity? Or do they mean, that we should take to our selves such liberty therein, as certain persons lately have done; who being comman­ded by lawfull authority to celebrate the fifth of August, with joy and thanksgiving for his Majesties most strange and wonderfull deliverance upon the said day, did not­withstanding spend the same (as we are credibly infor­med) in fasting & mourning and such like works of their obedience? Nay, these and the like experiments do cause us, humbly and instantly to desire, that both Sundays and Holydays may be religiously observed, and the intollera­ble prophanation of them, which is the rather brought in by these mens preachings and examples, may be very se­verely punished.

9 That there may bee an Vniformity of Doctrine pre­scribed: That no Popish opinions may be any more taught or de­fended. What imputations are these? how prejudici­all? How injurious? Not only unto the Church governe­ment, but unto the Christian faith established in this Realme? What advantage do these men in these shame­lesse suggestions reach unto the Papists? as if there were noWee refer to the Articles of Religion a­greed upon & established in Convocation. Anno 1562. vniformity, no consent of doctrine among us: (so ye except them.) As if there were some popish opinions taught & defended in our Liturgy? (as they deem who are ready to make every thingZanch. conf. cap. 24. de Eccl. Milet. Aph. 19. Poperie which they doe not fancie) These are the weapons with which Bellarmine and [Page 14]that Brood, are wont to wound, or rather falsly to re­proach our faith and profession. Good had it beene that these men had never beene able to write, rather then to write thus, to the scandall of Gods Church, and his sa­cred truth.

10 Reverence done at the name of Iesus, is no superstiti­on, but an outward signe of our inward subjection to his divine Majestie, and an apparent token of our devotion. Why doe they not likewise fin I fault with kneeling, sigh­ing, weeping, lifting up of eyes, knocking of breasts, hol­ding up of hands unto heaven? All which good men may use in Gods service with great piety, though Hypo­crites doe otherwise.

11 They are grosly ignorant if they know it not, or wilfully malicious and turbulent, if knowing it to be law­full, they yet oppugne the reading of the Apocryphall Scrip­tures or Writings in the Church. Non ad confirmationem fidei, sed ad reformationem, or institutionem morum, as the AncientHiero. Praef. in Pro. Cypr. in Symb. Pellic. praefan Apocr. fathers speak and approve. As also the Articles of con­vocation, and the Prefaces before the Apocryphall books in the English Bibles, doe directly shew: adding that hey give light, to the divine story.

2. Concerning Church-ministers.

1 WEE heartily desire that able and sufficient men bee admitted into the Ministery. That they preach diligently, and that on the Sunday especially. But who shall judge of their sufficiencie? Or doth not the suf­ficiencie of Ministers Suscipere magis & minus? Were the Ministers of the Primitive Church, all of them able to preach? Did not some of them preach the Gos­pell,Chrysost in 1 Cor 1. Pet. Martyr. in 1 Cor. 1. Gualtan 1 Cor. 1 Cal. in 1 Cor. 1. Bucer. in Eph. a. [Page 15]and other some reade the Scriptures, and administer the Sacraments? Or hath not the urging of that strange doctrine, viz. That he is no Minister that cannot preach, first forced men to take upon them to expound Gods Word, that thereby have brought the Word of God, and the sacred exercise of preaching into lamentable contempt, through their absurde, sencelesse, and irreligious glosses, and paraphrases, and discourses: whiles they have chosen rather so to doe, then to be accounted, Idol-shepheards, Dumbe dogges, No Ministers, and such like? Secondly hath it not made the Brownists confidently to reproach us, that ourBarrowes bookes, &c. Perpetuall go­vernment of the Church. Pag. 339. Church is no Church, our Sacraments no Sacra­ments, our Prince and people infidels, as not being bap­tised at all, our Christian Congregations prophane mul­titudes, &c. onely because some in the Ministery could not nor did not preach? But in this point it would be considered especially, first that it is not possible to have all Ministers men of worth, till all Church-livings be very sufficient to maintaine men of worth. Secondly, that the way to invite men of best parts to take upon them the Ministery, is not to expose and subiect that calling to want and beggary, which in the third part of this their complaint, these men do principally intend. And lastly that howsoever these men doe please themselves in their extemporary gift; yet many of them, though in shew very audacious, doe to withstanding deserve for their grosse ignorance, to be blotted out of the number of preachers, truely so called.

2 How charitable these men are, that would have menHar conf. ex Helv. Post. De Minist. ca. 18 Agnoscimus, &c. Vnde ne hodie quidem rejicimus simplicitatem quorundam pro­bam, &c. removed out of the Ministery, because they cannot preach; (whereas some of them were intreated to take that function upon them, when men more able could not [Page 16]be gotten; and others in their yonger yeeres, have beene of more sufficiency, then now their age, sicknesse, or other in­firmity, will permit them to be:) And how judicious, that would have them to maintaine preachers, who (for the most part) have not wherewith for to maintaine them­selves, we leave to the consideration of the wise. How much better hath our Church devised, to supply the de­fects of some men, in some places of meane valew, by o­ther meanes? As namely, 1. By the frequent reading of the Scriptures: A matter moreZanc. Conf. obs. in cap. 15. Aph. 10.11. availeable unto faith and godlinesse, then the Petitioners doe imagine; and would be much more, if it were not brought into contempt, by their suggestions. 2. By a most religious and excellentB. Ridley to M. Grindall then beyond the seas. Alas that brother Knox could not beare with our booke of common pray­er, &c. The rea­sons he maketh against the Letany, &c. I doe marvell how he can or dare avouch them, &c. forme of Common prayer. 3. By Sermons and Homilies printed and appointed to be read, both for the confirma­tion of the faith, and for reformation of manners. All which in a Church not new to be planted, but now setled and well grounded in the profession of the truth, are ordi­nary effectuall meanes, to continue and increase them, in the true faith and feare of God. Hereunto may be added the manifold provisions in our Church, for sermons quar­terly, or more often, in those Cures, where the Incumbents cannot preach.

3 That Non-residency be not permitted. It is a matter of wise and sound deliberation: first,The bounds of Parishes are not de jure di­vino. what Non-residen­cie is; for many men in our Church, have two parishes committed to their charge, which both will not make one living. Againe, many have but one parish under them, which yet would require more then two, or tenne men to speake at once to all the Congregation. Secondly it is, and long hath beene permitted, by wise and godly Magistrates, that have given way to it, by their positive [Page 17]prudent Laws, as necessary, in some Cases, in a few men, and them (generally and by intendment) of the best de­serts. Thirdly that it is absolutely unlawfull, and inThe answer to the 2. trea­tise of the Ab­stract. no sort to be suffered, neither hath beene proved, nor ever will, by all the Scismaticks in the Land. Fourthly, in what congruity may he be counted an idle Non-resident, that is alwaies present and taketh paines, in some part; and often in every part of his charge; Fiftly, there are not more intollerable Non-residents in England, then some of those, that are either included in the Thousand afore mentioned, or that favor this their attempt: Espe­cially if they shall bee measured by those places of Scrip­ture, which they are wont to alledg against Non-residents after the Texts be well examined. Lastly, it is not possi­ble (as Church-livings are now* allotted) that simply no Non-residency should be permitted,To alter the precincts of pa­rishes, is a mat­ter of greater consequence, then the Ab­stractor, or ma­ny moe such shallow heads can possibly conceive. and yet withall a learned Ministery mainteined, Princes and Peeres of the Land attended, Colleges and Cathedrall Churches continued, the Universities present, and hope of succes­sion in them for hereafter, preserved, propagated and supported.

4 The Marriage of Ministers wee doe not dislike, but maintain the lawfulnesse thereof against the Church of Rome: and humbly desire (if there be neede) that the supreme Magistrate, will add thereunto, by his royall authority and the law of the Land, such farther strength and confirmation, as shall seem fit to his high wisdom.

5 Wee know of no Subscription that is urged, which is not agreeable to law, required by the orders of our Uni­versity, necessary in a Christian Common-wealth, pro­fitable for the Church of God, approveable by all judici­ous learned men, and disliked of none, but of a few folk, [Page 18]that are overmuch addicted to their own opinions. Who notwithstanding, whereThe lawes and statutes of Gen. In the form of Oath, which the Ministers receive. Sect 2. Beza in veta Cal. pag. 910. they beare the sway, it is worth the consideration, how strictly they tie all them that will live among them, to the observation of their Church go­vernment. And in truth (so the things in themselves be not intolerable) better so, then that which is here pro­posed. For the not urging of a conformity in Church discipline, is to to set open the high way to all disorder and Confusion.

3. Concerning Church maintenance.

1 THat Bishops leave their Commēdams. In case some of the ancient revenue might be restored to their Bishopricks, he were utterly unworthy to be a Bishop, that would desire a Commendam. But, as now the most of them are impaired, to take away from all Bishops all manner of Commendams, is (in truth) to tie the Kings hands, that he shall not be able, though he would, (and where he will not, no Commendam can be gi­ven;) to make his most faithfull servants, or other men of best desert in the Ministery, able to maintain their pla­ces and callings, by his Majesties favor, and gracious dis­pensation, when otherwise their Bishopricks are not suf­ficient so to doe. So as if it be well wayed, they doe not so much intend in this particular to impoverish some few Bishops, as indeed utterly to overthrow them, and ge­nerally to restraine the Kings Prerogative.

2 Of the same nature is that which followeth. For no man, except he be the Kings Chaplaine, may hold three Benefices with Cure; and those of his Highnesse own gift. So that here also they desire to limit the Kings fa­vour. [Page 19]Againe, it is not known, that there be five in all this Land, that hold three such Benefices. And then what good dealing is this in the Petitioners, to make the world beleeve, that it is a common fault, which is scarce to be found in a few?

3 Their disposing of Impropriations, The Ecclesi. asticall discipl. pag. 114. doth notably be­wray their lacke of Conscience, their little love to lear­ning and Religion, their temporizing and fitting their motions to the Laieties good liking. For who seeth not that it would be the certain overthrow, and utter ruine of Bishopricks, Colledges, and Cathedrall Churches, if their Impropriations should be demised to Vicars or Curats, the Incumbents, at the old rent, without fine, without im­provement? Againe, who be they, and how many, that by this meanes would be provided for? A few, and those the meanest of the Clergy. But the inconveniences that would hereof ensue, are very many, and intolerable. Therfore we reserve that discourse to a fit opportunity. On the other side, who doth not know, that for a Lay­man to hold an impropriation (which is a Tithe) is origi­nally unlawfull, and cleane contrary to the first institu­tion? Yet these men in all their purity, zeale, and consci­ence, can content themselves, and their preaching In­cumbents, with the seventh part onely of an Impropriati­on, in a Lay-mans fee.

4 Are these all, or the best meanes, that a Thousand mē, such as they would be reputed, can propose to his High­nesse for the bettering of the Church maintenance? If we might know, that it would stand with his Majesties good liking, and should not be imputed unto us as a breach of duty; It were very possible, that the men whom they so much contemne, would be able to propose some other [Page 20]course for the bettring of the Church maintenance, with out the alteration or injurie of any other state.

4 Concerning Church Discipline.

1 UNder the name of their Discipline, we have bin hertofore taught by these men to understand, The kingdom of Christ upon earth. A thing of no lesse importance then the Eccles. Disci. pag. 13. T.C. Epist. to the Church of England. Gospell of Christ Jesus; An essentiall part of the Gospell. A matter of faith to be recei­ved upon paine of damnation: An essentiall marke of the true Church without the which our Church was no Church, our faith no faith, our Gospell no Gospell, &c. And it is now come to be so indifferent, that it may bee admini­stred accordingly; Or else at the least, that these enormities may be redressed? Will it now suffer such an Or else, at the least.

Were we perswaded that their Discipline, their Pres­bytery, the life and being of their Discipline, were indeed of Christs institution; were we perswaded it were a part of Gods Word, an essentiall part of his Word; could we be contented to bee without it? Could wee content our selves to live any where but under it? Would we not re­deem it with much perill and paine? With certain losse? And that willingly?

But the experience that his most excellent Maiesty hath had, of the manifold mischiefs and miseries that at­tend their pretended Discipline, doth make them not dare to speake plainly for it. They therefore faulter in seeking to obtain that, which yet in heart they do affect, and specially desire.

But to these Enormities; these heinous Enormities. Is [Page 21]it not well, that now at length, these quick-sighted men can espie no fouler Enormities in our Church govern­ment?

Enormities.

1 THAT Excommunication come not forth under the name of Lay persons. First, it may truly be said, that though it did come forth under the name of a Chancellour or a Commissary, yet came it not forth under the name of Lay persons. For a Chancellor or a Commissary is not a Lay-man in this case: The Or­dinary and He are but Ʋnus Judex. Or rather, whatso­ever the Chancellor doth in this behalfe, he doth it in the authority of the Ordinary, according to the power that is committed unto him. A thing not unusuall in the Civill state, wherein the Lord Chancellor doth dispose of many things, which are originally in the Crown; and againe, writeth Teste meipso unto many particulars, that never passe by bill assigned.

Secondly, No Lay-Chancelor or Comissary whatsoe­ver doth at any time excommunicate any man; or send­eth out in his own name any excōmmunication. But this is the practice of the Church of England. InConst. Eccle. 1597. cap. de Excess. circa Excom. refor. the censu­ring of notorious and more grievous crimes, the Arch-Bp, the Bishop, the Deane, the Arch-deacon, or a Preben­dary that is a Priest, pronounceth the sentence of Excō ­munication in his own person. And in matters of lesse offence, as contumacy in not appearing, and the like, the Vicar-generall, Officiall or Comissary, that is not in holy orders, holdeth this course. First, upon knowledg and e­xamination of the cause, he adjudgeth the party worthy [Page 22]to be excommunicated; then the Minister (associated un­to him by expresse authority from the Ordinary) doth pronounce the sentence of Excommunication against him; Lastly, the Chancellor sendeth to the Pastor of the Parish where that party dwelleth, requiring him, pub­likely to declare the said party to be a person excommu­nicated by the sentence of the Minister his associate. And all this, according to the forme of the Articles set forth by her Majesties authority, Anno 1597.

Thirdly, are not these execellent Enormity makers, that can finde such an Enormity in the Name of a Layman (in whose name notwithstanding, the excommunication never commeth forth) when yet, if it did come forth in his name, the nature of the thing it selfe is such, as justly cannot be reproved? They are not ignorant, that ex­communication doth proceed as is afore-said; if not in the name, yet in the Authority and Jurisdiction of the Bishop, or some other chiefe Clergy-man, to whom the power of the Keyes doth belong, and unto whom the Church of England hath assigned the execution of that part of our Discipline. Who, if they use the advise and Ministery of a wise and religious Civilian, in decreeing who is to be excommunicate, (whereupon thosePerpetuall govern, of the Chu. pa. 320. out­ward penalties doe ensue, which attend the authority, and follow the sentence of Excommunication, in this Church & Common wealth:) how doth that in any wise violate Christs institution as touching excōmunication?

Lastly, if the Discipline they long for, were once on foot among us, we should then heare tell of certaine Lay-Parsons that ought to have a principall hand in their ex­communications. Thus, as they are weake in judgment for matter of learning in this point, not being able [Page 23]to resolve of any thing in certaine; so are they as partiall in prescribing their plots for matter of practise; whiles they reprove that in others, which in themselves they doe allow. Except peradventure they will tell us (and we must needs beleeve them) that their Lay-Elders be­come Clergy men ipso facto, because they are of their Consistory; & have voyces (according to their learning) in these Ecclesiasticall censures.

2 That none be excommunicated for The order of Excom. &c. in the Church of Scot. Printed June, 1571. Cap. 4. Thus any small offence may justly descrve Excommuni­cation, by rea­son of the con­tempt & diso­bedience of the offendor. trifles and twelve penny matters. They are not. Contempt is then the grea­ter, when the matter wherein they shew their contempt is of lesser valew: As contrariwise, obedience is then more commendable, when it is seen in a matter of greater dif­ficulty. But these men are so accustomed to disobedi­ence, that they account it but a trifle; And therefore ca­lumniate us and our discipline; as if with us, men were excommunicated for trifles, when (in truth) they are censured for their contempt.

3 That none be excommunicated without consent of his Pastor. Without consent, is a captious tearm. For in our understanding, the Minister of the Parish doth give his consent, when he publisheth the excommunication; as also when he doth certifie what he hath done in denoun­cing the same. And this manner of consent we take to be sufficient, and as much as is requisite in a private Pa­stor, that hath no Jurisdiction.

But what is it that these men doe meane? Would they (thinke you) that every Pastor should have a Negative in the excommunicating of his Parishioners? Undoubt­edly they would: threby intending the utter overthrow of the present Church government, and in steed thereof the setting up of a Presbitery in every Parish. Or rather, [Page 24]that which is worse (if worse may be) the enabling of e­very particular Pastour to Excommunicate by himselfePerpetuall go­vernment of the Church, pag. 321. alone.

Except peradventure they will say, that the particular Pastor ought to be joyned in cōmission with the Chan­celour. And then behold what would ensue. On the Minister, a world of troubles: he must be sent for as oft as any of his parish is presented, he must attend the hea­ring and debating of the whole cause; he must be pre­sent as oft as the Chancellor sitteth, as long as the mat­ter dependeth, to his great travaile and pains, his exces­sive charge, and the causlesse neglect of his calling. On the other side, if this Minister will be wilfull, and in fine dissent from the Chancelor in opinion; then is all the la­bor lost; the Judge hath spent his skill and care in vain, and the Bishops Consistory must down to the ground: either Pastor must prevaile, or nothing must be done; To the intollerable hinderance of Justice, and excessive de­triment of the plaintiffe. These and the like, are the well advised Propositions, wherof there is store in their Dis­cipline. By which it doth sufficiently appeare, that as yet it is not throughly refined.

4 Extorting of unreasonable fees, who approveth? Who disliketh not? Who would not have it redressed, in any that offend? Besides there are veryConstit. Eccl. 1597. cap. de Feodisquae off. Eccles. severe laws already made in that behalfe.

5 Farming out of Jurisdictions and Registers places, though we commend it not, nor greatly like of it; yet it is of it self a matter indifferent; neither good nor ill, but as it is used.

6 The restraint of Mariage at certaine times (false­ly called a Popish Canon) wasConsil. Laodi. Can. 52. anciently used in the [Page 25]Church of God; and being rightly understood, is now commendable in this of ours.

7 The Long-somnes of Suits in Ecclesiasticall Courts, is a matter of fact, not of Constitution; nor is the fault of the Court, nor of the Judge necessarily (as these men would seem to imply,) but sometime error in pleading, sometime the intricatenes of the cause, somtime the per­versenesse of the Clyent, sometime the cunning of the Proctors, are the occasion that suits depend long. And when all is said, that they can say, this is none other fault than is incident to the course of Justice at the Common Law; and might befall their Consistory, or a better and more equall kind of triall.

8 The Oath ex officio, is used as it ought, by men of place, of wisdome, and experience; by men of Religion, learning, and conscience. Unto whom the authority to administer it as occasion is offered doth justly belong, not by speciall Commission only, but by the laws of this land, by the two Laws Canon and Civill; and by the war­rant of sundry examples of the word of God: as that wor­thy and learned Dean of the Arches (the ornament & ho­nor of his profession in his time) in his judiciousThe Apolog. 2 part, Cha 9. and so sorth to the end of the same. Apolo­gy of certain proceedings in Courts Ecclesiasticall, doth prove at large,

9 Licenses for Mariage without Banes, are most cau­tiously granted; and that uponConst. Eccl. 1597. cap. de moder. indulg. severe punishment to ensue, if so be the Constitution be violated. But what will satisfie these men, who thus intimate unto his High­nesse, that there is rigor in the former point, and negli­gence in this, when as all moderation and carefulnes is u­sed in them both?

And are not these heynous enormities?

Their Conclusion.

THe ilde vaunt that the Petitioners make of being a­ble to shew that these and other such abuses (as they call them) remaining and practised in the Church of Eng­land, are not agreeable to the Scriptures, doth appeare to be the more ridiculous; because they have passed over in deep silence many learnedThe perpet. gover of Chri. Chur. Asurvey of the pret. holy disc. The answer to the Abstract. The Apol. of certain pro­ceed in Court Eccle. A treatise of Eccles. Discip. De Presbyt. e­jus (que) nova &c. De div. Minist. Evan. grad, &c. The Remon­strance. Querimonia Ecclesiae. The 5 books of the laws of Eccles. polit. Tracts published long since, wherein their vain fancies, and illiterate objecti­ons are refuted at large. If notwithstanding they will yet venture to write, it will be answered; If they will needs argue and dispute, there are ready that will either satisfie them, or by argument silence them. And were it not in regard that we would not seem as undutifull in ac­cepting, as they have been in the offering of this Chal­lenge: it is the thing we would urge, and instantly en­treat, that these matters might be debated between us in writing. But in the mean time, what motions are these for the reformers to make unto a most prudent Prince in his settled and peaceable government; who for many years, hath had triall in that his other kingdome, of their pretended reformation; and in this also hath seen the gracious effects under her Majesties late hapy Raign of that Church Discipline, which they would ruinate and overthrow.

God hath appointed his Majesty unto this Kingdome. It is true; and we magnifie the goodnesse of God for it, and congratulate his Highnes in the prosperous possession of it, from the ground of our hearts. But that God hath ap­pointed him to this kingdome for such a purpose as they conceite; what spirit of divination is in them, that they should forespeake it? Nay rather, seeing almighty God hath ordained him as the great Physitian (next and im­mediately under himselfe,) to take care of the body po­litique, [Page 27]both of his Church and Common-wealth; he will surely cure such diseases, as these men are sick of. (For turbulent and discontented humors are like to breed ve­ry dangerous deseases in a civill State:) And not be per­swaded (as they fondly imagine) by such suggestions as these, to alter that state of the Church, which is accep­table to God, honorable to his Highnes, comfortable to many thousand Ministers, the Nurse of good learning, admirable to strangers, approved by ourThe letters that Mr. Beza. hath written to the Arch. bish. of C. that now is. Opposites, envied of our enemies, distastfull unto none, but such as know neither how to rule, nor how to obey.

The very names of punishments are unpleasant indeed; but the things themselves are necessary sometimes, and their effects good and profitable for preservation of the whol; howsoever the induring of them, may be grievous in the particular. And he that will indifferently consider the true causes of the corrections here mentioned; shall have just cause to approve the Justice,Conspiracy for pretended Reformation. and commend the mildnes, that hath bin used towards this sort of men.

As for that clause of Mens traditions, it is too too odi­ous; and would imply Superstition or Popery to be in some of them; But how vainly, and how injuriously, hath in some sort been heretofore declared.

That other of beeing prejudiciall to none but those that seek their own, &c. is as injurious to all the rest of the Min sters of this land. Be we the men that are so addicted to our own quiet, credite, and commoditie in the world? Where then be the the fruits of our covetousnes, the ef­fects of our ambition, the marks of our idlenes? We be the men, that in the testimony of a good conscience, for the repelling of such a malicious contumely, and slanderous reproach, may truly say: We put not out our mony to u­sury; we detest all filthy lucre; we contain our selves with­in [Page 28]our Vocations; we forsake not our holy callings, we omit not to labour in our severall charges; we sustaine the places of great labour, travaile, and expense; we neg­lect not in publike, in private, in word, in writing, at home and abroad, to put to silence, and stop the mouth of the common Adversary, which these men have enlar­ged against us, and our most holy faith.

To conclude, the thing they seeke is so prejudiciall, both to the Civill state in generall, and in particular, to so many of the very best of the Ministery; that if it should take effect, but God of his mercy, and the Kings most ex­cellent Majesty in his Christian wisdome, will not suffer it) it would breed a strange alteration in the One; and in the Other it would for the present, not only impoverish us, and our Universities, but make both them and us, and the whol Clergy very base and contemptible in the eies of our own people, as also a by-word and scorne to our neighbour Nations; And for succeeding ages, it would cut off all hope of a learned Ministery, and of that grounded learning, which as yet is, and heretofore hath been, the glory and honour of this kingdome.

For manifestation of this point, look upon the face of all the reformed Churches in the world; and whereso­ever the desire of these Petitioners doth take place, be it duly considered; first, how well their proceedings do suit with the state of a Monarchy; And then, how poverty on the one side, and lack of learning on the other, doth creep upon the whole Clergy in those Dominions.

As to the first: would it not beseem the supereminent authority and Regal person of a King, to be himself con­fined within the limits of some particular parish; & then to subject his soveraigne power, to the pure Apostolicall simplicity, of an over-swaying and all-commanding [Page 29]Presbytery? Would it not do him much good, in a time of need, that his people should be rooted and grounded in this truth; viz. That his meeke and humble Clergy, have power to bind their King in chaines, and their Prince in lincks of iron? that is (in their learning) to censure him, to enjoyn him penance, to excommunicate him? yea (in case they see cause) to proceed against him as a tyrant?

We speake not here of other points, as namely, that all appeales in causes Ecclesiasticall (and what doe they not make Ecclesiasticall?) must finally lie, not unto the Prince, but unto the Assembly Provinciall; That they a­low the supreme Magistrate, not potestatem juris, but on­ly facti; while they make him the maintainer of their proceedings, but no commander in them. These and the like, are but petty abridgments of the Praerogative Roy­all, while yet the King T.C. l. 1. p. 180 submits his Scepter unto the Scep­ter of Christ, and licks the dust of the Churches feete.

Neither may it be truely said, that these are only Spe­culations. There are some of high place yet alive, and o­ther some are dead, that have felt the smart hereof in their own experience, and have seen the worst of all this put in wofull execution.

As to the second. Do we not see it at this day verified among them, which hath been so often truly said, and as often unadvisedly denied, that honos alit artes; and con­trariwise, where due reward of learning and liberal maintenance of the Ministery, is fraudulently impaired, or in­juriously taken away,Ecclesias. dif­cipl. pag. 114. there Religion and learning com to decay? There Atheisme and Barbarisme and confusi­on must needs ensue? It is too aparent, that as the reve­nues of those Churches have been embeazled by men of corrupt mindes,Psal. 83.11. which said in their hearts, as it is in the Psalme, Let us take to our selves the houses of God in posses­sion: [Page 30]so the remainder of that grounded learning, which was bred up in former times, is now through succession of time, almost cleane worne out.

Nec bona tam sequitur, quam bona prima fuit.

Insomuch, that there is neither sufficient maintenance in those parts, for any store of excellēt learned men, nor yet many men brought up among them in this last refor­ming age, worthy of that wonted honorable mainte­nance.

God knows we speak not this with a detracting Spirit but with grief of heart: to see the ruines of the Ministe­ry in particular, and generaly of all profound learning in other reformed Churches. As likewise to stirre up this whol nation to a thankfull acknowledgment of that sin­gular blessing in this behalfe, which God of his goodnes hath long, and yet doth continue unto us of this Realm. And withall, to put to silence the malicious ingratitude of those evill men, which looking upon us & this Church through the colourd glasse of their prejudicate opinions; can see nothing among us but defects and deformities, and abuses and enormities, and the like. And therfore in their high discretion, would have us reduced and made con­formable to the calamities of other places.

Whereas, in truth, if we shall bring back the eyes of our minds from forrein parts, and indifferently (without either detraction or flattery) take notice of the present state of this Church and Comon-wealth; we shall easily discern, that it were an incomparable happines for them, if all that professe the truth as it is in Christ Jesus, were in our condition.

We shall see, how that our Church government is du­ly subordinate unto the supreme civill state, and withall doth mightily support the same. That our reverend Pre­lates [Page 31](men of singular worth, not to be matched in any one kingdom) though preferred unto highest roomes, doe yet contain themselves within such bounds as pre­serves that estate from creeping to any Papal corrupti­ons. That our inferior Clergy, by their godly and pain­full labors in their vocation, have been and are the most effectuall meanes to settle the tranquility of this land; by inducing mens minds to Piety towards God, Loyalty to their King, and civill honesty among themselves. That our people generally (excepting some few malecontents of all sorts, whom wee leave to the mercy of the Magi­strate) are inured unto Peace, accustomed to subjection, detest disloyalty, and with all alacrity yeeld their obedi­ence unto their Soveraign.

That the Colledges, the Cathedrall-Churches,Saravia de fa­crilegiis, ca. 9. the Bishops and other Ministers of this land, have yet remai­ning unto them (yet after the many and great spoyles of this Church; which notwithstanding, never prospered with them that got them, but were as rust to the rest of their silver and their gold, or as a Canker, that fretted out themselves, their posterity or their possessions) that yet there is remaining unto them more competent and sufficient maintenance; more comfortable and honorable encouragements, then there are to all other reformed Churches in Christendom.

That answerable therunto (to stop that mouth of ini­quity, which is wont to traduce us, for a dumbe, unlear­ned Idoll Ministery) there are at this day more learned men in this Land, in this one kingdom;1 Cor. 9. 2 Cor. 13. then are to bee found among all the Ministers of the Religion in France Flanders, Germany, Poland, Denmarke, Geneva, Scotland; or (to speake in a word) all Europe besides.

Which yet, may not justly be imputed to us for vani­ty, [Page 32]the Apostle that knew how to be abased, and to make himselfe of no reputation; yet when the impeaching of his personall gifts was abused to the disgrace of his cal­ling; did without either arrogancy or folly, give his De­tractors plainly and roundly to understand, that he was not inferior to the chief Apostles, nay that hee labored more then they all; and so by his own just defence & cō ­mendation, did free himself, his worth and his vocation, from their base and odious imputations. In a like case (we doubt not) a truth may be averred of our selves, even by our selves, without any ostentation at all; when it is so in­juriously impeached & trodden under foote, to the high dishonor of God, the disgrace of his Gospell, and to the slander of this most Christian Comon-wealth.Psal 47.10. Yea the rich mercies that God hath continued unto us these 45 yeeres, ought to replenish our hearts with joy, and that our lips should break forth with thankfulnes & sing, Non facit taliter omni natione; neither have the Regions round about vs been made partakers of the like blessings.

Now the father of Mercies, and God of all Consola­tion, enlarge the wise and understanding heart of our thrice noble King, noble in byrth, noble in wisdom, no­ble in all manner of good learning; assist him ever with his holy Spirit, the spirit of Councell, of Sanctification and of Truth: make him admirable in the swaying of this Scepter as was Salomon in all the world, as long as he walked in the first way of his father David: That so hee may long weare this mortall Crown, in all abundance of piety, peace and prosperity, and hereafter obtaine that immortall Crown that Christ hath purchased for them which by continuance in well doing seeke glory and honor and immortality.

FINIS.

This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Text Creation Partnership. Searching, reading, printing, or downloading EEBO-TCP texts is reserved for the authorized users of these project partner institutions. Permission must be granted for subsequent distribution, in print or electronically, of this EEBO-TCP Phase II text, in whole or in part.