A DIALOGUE OR, DISCOURSE BETWIXT Two old acquaintance of contrary OPINIONS, UPON The way as they were Ryding from Northampton neere unto Holmby House, Concerning our present Government by Elders.
By O.B.
Printed for R.K. 1647.
A Dialogue betweene Senior John of of the old house, and Thomas Potgun a young Presbyterian.
HOw now Malignant? what newes hear'st thou concerning the King? or when intends he to come to London, canst tell? Senior Ioh. 'Faith I know not, for I thinke hee likes the ayre where he is now, better then he likes the City ayre, especially since this last Spring.
Your reason for't, pray sir?
Why, both in City and Suburbs strange Planers raigning, hath so incumbred London and Westminster with Elders, gowing faster then Rew, that they are almost crept into the Privy garden.
Why, dare you speak against Elders?
Yes, if they sproure up like so many thornes choking our Wheat, and again, such fruitlesse Trees ought not to comber the ground.
Doe you not read of them in the Apostles times?
Yes, and in Susanna's time too.
Oh, but you ought not to condemne all for two?
Neither ought you to censure so severely so many good ones for the misdemeanour of one.
How meane you by that one?
Why, to inlighten your dull capacitie, 'tis this, you vilifie unjustly all our reverend and venerable Bishops, hating the title, and excluding all their labours, though never so learned, for the default of one, in this you do not immitate our Saviour, who despised not all his Disciples, though one were a Divell. Againe, did you ever read of one Simonides, a Heathen, as Tertullian relateth in Liber 5. how the poore old man was so transported with joy, hearing how many good Bishops were at the translating of the Bible, wished himselfe a Christian, which by the perswasions of these good men, was accordingly before his death effected. Likewise Bishop Baylie writ the Practise of Piety, but you regard not that.
Seriously I like this Discourse well, but what more can you say then for Bishops?
Or whither for one thistles sake you would immitate Samson's Foxes, carrying fire in your tayles, burning up the good graine, and so if it [Page 3]were possible to publish your ignorance more visibly in the world then lately it hath beene. Thus much for Bishops, now to our present govenment in esse.
I, that favours well in my eares.
And in my nose too like a Glyster-pipe.
Well, Ile say no more to you, if you make a scoffe of our Church government guided by Elders
Shall I define their pedigree of old, and where they first sprung up.
Prithee let me heare that?
My Authour cites us sundry places of a Stigian Lake called by some stix, by others the dead sea, but by most the sinke of sodome, situate for ayre so pleasant▪ that the poore Birds attempting to fly over it, in a swelling condition dropt down dread into it; and it is observed that part of the river Tiber runneth into it, where the pretty silver scaled fishes come wantonly swiming in, posting to their own destruction, and there died; on whose odoriferous bankes grow two certaine trees, the one bearing Aples as pleasant to the taste, as Elder to the smell, upon which accursed tree, it is said that Iudas hanged himselfe, a tree altogether unfit for any use but the fire.
Why sure 'tis an argument so hot, it cannot hold long?
No, especially if a second Ioshua gives charge to the Sun to remaine in its fixed horizon or Spheare, whose ardent beames must needs exhale their sap from them, and so by consequence leave them in a very dry condition.
I must needs confesse, there's an old Proverb for't, that is, the dryer they are, the fitter to burne.
And again, if unhappy Phaiton should once more prvaile with his Father to guide the Charret of the Sun for one day, and the unskilfull Ladd o'rethrow it, and set the world on fire, who would be first consumed; the stedfast and sound hearted Oakes, or the rotten withered and instable Elders, I leave to any wise mans censure.
You harpe too much of this one string, when I met you first, I expected you would have acquainted mee with some certaine good newes?
You with some certaine good newes, why 'tis too true? I tell you, I'le shew you above a thousand old standers in London, to my griefe, besides some hourely dying, but a many daily springing up, Heaven blast them in the bloome.
Bloome, now beshrow me, l'ad rather see a [Page 5]thousand Triple-crown'd affected persons, with each man a little Bishop or two in's belly in Purgatorie.
Well, well, seeing y'are possest with such charitable thoughts, I'le have you to understand, that there is in some fence a Purgatorie provided already for you, far neerer then the Popes Kitchin.
A Purgatorie for us sir, your meaning in this, I beseech you?
Nay, for all your beseeching, we mean to doe it.
Why, let me heare what you dare doe?
Why, to cleare and make a free passage against his Majesties happy returne to London, we do intend for to spare for no cost in employing of good store of workmen and labourers, with our owne best assistance, to dig and root out all old shrubbed Elders, that lye as so many stumbling-blocks against the feet of weake consciences, and so convey them by Cart to Scotland yard, there to remaine with the superstitious timber of the late erected Play house in White Hall, but this wood must lye in the posture of a very large Bonfire ready to welcome the King and his Nobles, at their arrivall to London, and in this posture to remaine till Authority [Page 6]shall give this last word of command, that is, Give fire.
Once more, let me intreat you to fall upon some other discourse?
Why then briefly I'le recite you my Dreame the other night.
Let me heare it, so it be not two tedious?