WHat Paper is this? An Ab­stract of the present state of the Mines! I thought that Undertaking had been given for lost.

Really so did I, my Lord—Pray what account does that Paper pre­tend to give of it?

If your Lordship pleases I'le run it over.

If it be not too much trouble to your Lordship.

No, my Lord.

On my word, this is a very ma­terial Paper. I know several of the Gen­tlemen of that Committee very well, they are Men of undoubted Credit and Re­putation; Certainly they would not print and publish any thing that was not really true. I am surprized to see such a Paper.—I protest I have heard this Un­dertaking so ridiculed by the Wits of the Town, that I could not imagine there was any thing in it.

Truly, my Lord, I should not have credited, even this Paper, but that your Lordship gives so good a Character of the Committee. But though your Lordship knows them to be honest Gen­tlemen, are they Men of Skill and Judg­ment in Mineral Works?

They are not only Persons of great Honesty, and not to be byass'd by any manner of Influence, but some of them have a considerable Estate in Mine­ral Works, which they do manage to good Profit and Advantage. And there­fore I don't know any Persons more ca­pable [Page 3]in every respect to make a right Judgment of these Mines than they. And then I am sure, they are as careful of their Reputation, and as cautious and wary of disposing their Money in any un­profitable Adventure as any Persons what­soever.

Then some Men are strangely mistaken about this Undertaking. Real­ly my Lord, this Paper, and your Lord­ships Character of the Committee, makes me desirous to be fully informed of the Nature of this Adventure; perhaps it may be worth our Enquiry at this time, before it is better understood.

It may so. — O here is a Gen­tleman coming in, who is an Eminent Merchant, and ten to one but he knows more of the matter.

Of what my Lord?

Of the Mine-Adventure.

I know so much of it, my Lord, that I am in Five hundred pounds; and here is a Reverend Divine who never was engaged in any thing of this nature before, who has also ventured his Money as well as I.

Nay, if the Merchants and Cler­gy agree together in a Venture, it must needs be successful. But I cannot well conceive how this Reverend Doctor came [Page 4]to be engaged in such a Venture on Mines.

My Lord, if I have erred in this Particular, I am sorry for it; but I must beg leave to assure your Lordship, that it was not out of greedy Lucre of Gain, or of a Fortunate Lot, but some other Reasons that prevailed with me, which perhaps may have very little weight or Credit with many other Persons, and therefore I shall not trouble your Lord­ship with them.

I shall not press any thing con­trary to your Inclinations, Sir: But if I may be free on this occasion, I confess, that if I were to venture my Money in a Lottery, it should be in hopes of a For­tunate Lot.

I don't say, my Lord, but that a Fortunate Lot is a very acceptable thing; but yet if I had been sure to have had none, I would have ventured in this as much as I did.

I never knew a Person of your Coat so fond of a Lottery before; I hope you'l pardon me, Sir, that I am so free with you, for it is your own Discourse that is the cause of it, which to me seems really to want an Interpreter.

My Lord, you have put so hard upon me, that your Lordship now forces [Page 5]me to say something more than I intend­ed. My Lord, I am not fond of that thing called a Lottery in general; but on the contrary, am very glad that all common Gaming Lotteries are suppressed. But I humbly conceive—

My Lord, The drawing of Lots (with submission) is not Malum in se, nor any ways Scandalous in its own Nature; or else your Lordship would never have concurred to introduce the Precedent of the Million Lottery. That which was con­sistent with the Wisdom of the King, Lords, and Commons assembled in Par­liament, can never bear a Reflection on the Wisdom of a private Person.

What you say is true. Neither are we angry at the thing it self, as you may observe by the Favour shewed to the Greenwich-Hospital Adventure; but Lot­teries have been generally abused since that time to ill purposes, and many of them not fairly drawn.

There are many other things that have been abused to ill purposes, as well as the Drawing of Lots; as to give your Lordship one Instance for all: What does your Lordship think of the Law of England? Has not that Law, the best Law in the World, been abused to ill pur­poses? And what Answer is made to that [Page 6]Objection but this? That in such Cases it is vitium hominis, non professionis; and there its agreed that such Abuses by Men ought to be restrained and regulated, but without the least Reflection, nay indeed with a tacit Commendation of those that make a right use of the Law, that do act fairly, and have the Right on their side. And this I conceive to be our Case.

You say well, if your Lottery was fairly drawn to the Satisfaction of all Persons concerned, and not abused to any ill purpose?

My Lord, as to the fairness of Drawing, I must beg leave to acquaint your Lordship, that the Mine-Adventure is allowed to exceed all, (and with due submission be it spoken) even the Million Lottery it self. For though (without doubt) the Million Lottery, and many o­thers) were very fairly drawn, yet the Mine-Adventure Tickets being Subscribed with the Parties own Hand-writing (which no others were) did not only prevent Fraud, but all Mistakes which often hap­pened when the Party depended on the Number of the Tickets only! But here the Names of the Adventurers being read as well as the Numbers of the Tickets, and Registred by two Clerks on Oath, as [Page 7]well Blanks as Prizes, one corrected the other, that if the number of the Ticket was mistaken, as it often happen'd, in printing, reading, or entring, yet the Name of the Adventurer writ thereon was always right, and could not be mistaken, and certainly nothing in nature could be more fair; and indeed all Persons concerned have so acknowled'd.

That was exceeding fair indeed, and beyond all manner of Exception. But what say you to the other part of my Lord's Objection, Was not the Drawing of Lots in this Case abused to ill purpo­ses.

My Lord, with submission I conceive, if ever the Drawing of Lots was allowable, it was in this Case: For this was not in the nature of a common Ga­ming Lottery, where the Undertaker was to have so much per Cent. out of the Mo­ney adventured, since no Person gained a Farthing by this Adventure more than another, unless by having better Fortune. But several Gentlemen being concerned as Partners in a Mine, and being entangled with many Difficulties and Law-suits, and knowing no other way to reconcile their Differences, did agree together to the Drawing of Lots. This was Necessity, not Choice, and seems to be justified by [Page 8]the Common Law of England, where one of the Ancient Divisions by Daughters and Heirs, as Copartners, is by Drawing of Lots. And this puts me in mind of a pleasant Story I have heard of a Grand Marshal of France, who upon the Con­clusion of the War, obtained to be a Judge of a certain Province, where he behaved himself very well; and being commanded by the King to give an Ac­count how he was able to manage and give Satisfaction to so great a Province, being not bred up to the Law. He con­fessed and declared, that there were three sorts of Causes that came before him: Some were so plain and evident, that any Man on hearing Counsel on both sides, might easily determine them. O­thers being more difficult, and a little a­bove his Martial Understanding, he took time to consider of; and after some Conversation with the Advocates on both sides, he discovered who had the Right in such Causes. But there were o­thers, so very Nice and Difficult, that though he took a long time to consider of them, and his Bottles of Hermitage and Flasks of Champagn flew about like Lightning amongst the Advocates, yet he could never get the Counsel on either side to yield, but they still pleaded with [Page 9]Zeal, (in private as well as publick) for their respective Clients. Well, says the King, and what did you do then? The Marshal was very unwilling, yet being forced to it, did confess that he had no other way in that Case, but to retire into his Closet, and to throw Dice fairly on the Drum­head, Now for the Plaintiff, Now for the Defendant. On my word (says the King) Thou art the most just Judge I have in all my Dominions; Go on and prosper.

So these Gentlemen being engaged in a very difficult Cause, and fearing their Lease of the Mines would expire before their Suit in Chancery would be ended, (the Counsel on both sides being very po­sitive in their Opinion for their respective Clients;) they thought fit to submit to the Drawing of Lots, as being the only way left to raise a Stock, reconcile all Differences, and set the Mines on work. And is there any hurt in all this?

No certainly; all Mankind must allow that the Drawing of Lots in such a Case was very allowable. But still I would fain know the Reverend Doctor's Reasons for his great Zeal in this matter; for we have interrupted his Discourse all this while.

My Lord, this worthy Gentleman has prevented a great part of my Defence, and in much more diverting Terms than I could pretend to. But yet, my Lord, I must still own, I had other Reasons for my Engaging in this Affair. But—

Nay, Pray go on Sir.

My Lord, I must then declare, that I was not only satisfied that the Drawing of Lots was lawful, since we find in Sacred Writ, that Joshua divided the Land to the Children of Israel by Casting of Lots; and that Lots were drawn in the Choice of an Apostle; and also that it was absolutely necessary in this Case, for the Reasons aforesaid. But I was farther satisfied, that this Lottery was at first contrived with a very good Design, not only to Reconcile all Differences amongst the Partners, and set on work so great a Mine for the Publick Good, and employ great Numbers of poor Workmen, their Wives and Children; but also thereby to enable the first Contriver thereof to Carve out of the Mines a very Great and Noble Share for Charitable Uses, which could not in all probability have been ob­tained by any other means. This, my Lord, was the Reason that induced me to engage in this Undertaking: For be­ing informed, that this very thing was [Page 11]the Occasion that many Persons refused to be concerned in it, pretending that the Undertaking was entangled (as they cal­led it) with so great a Charity, I thought it became every good Man to give a help­ing Hand to it, not only to bring this particular Undertaking to good Effect, but by the Success of this, to encourage all other Persons concerned in Mineral Works, to follow so good an Example; and to set apart some Share of the Pro­fits thereof to Charitable Uses, if it were only to the Relief of such poor Miners, their Wives and Children, as may in time stand in need thereof. And since, my Lord, all this Good may be done, with­out being one of the Committee for the Management of the Mines, or being inter­rupted from the Duty of our Function by any Temporal Care or Concern in this Affair, I humbly hope that none of my Coat have any reason to be ashamed of promoting so good an Undertaking.

I protest, Doctor, I must beg your pardon, I am much a Stranger to this Matter: Pray, Sir, what is this Cha­rity?

My Lord, there is a Twelfth part of the Profits of all these Mines appro­propriated to Charitable Uses, which I take to be a competent Share thereof, and [Page 12]being placed in good Hands, may conduce very much to the promoting of many Great and Noble Designs in the World; As for the Augmentation of poor Vica­ridges in Wales; for the Assistance and Encouragement of such Persons as shall Endeavour the Conversion of Infidels in the Indies; for Relief of Greenwich and other Hospitals; of poor Miners and La­bourers at the Works, their Wives and Children, and in time, of other poor People in most of the Great Corporations in the Kingdom.

The Design is very good indeed; but I seldom knew a Charity in the Hands of a Company, ever well applied.

But this is in the Disposition of one single Person.

And ten to one, but that single Person will put it all in his own Pock­et.

No, my Lord; Though it is a hard Task to undertake for another in this wicked Age; yet I dare venture to un­dertake, that this Charity shall be appli­ed to the best Uses. But in case of any Abuse or Neglect therein, (if any such thing should ever happen,) your Lord­ship knows that we can by a Commission of Charitable Uses, compel a due Execu­tion of this Trust, and a proper Appli­cation [Page 13]thereof to those Charitable Uses it was designed.

You may so: But if I am not mistaken, there was some mention made of a Gift in Tickets to the Poor of seve­ral Corporations; How does that Matter stand now? Had any of them Good Fortune?

My Lord, that Case stands thus: Sir H. M. having purchased a Power in the Settlement for that purpose, did at first intend to give Two hundred pounds in Tickets to the Right Honourable the Lord Mayor of London, and the Court of Aldermen, towards the Relief of the Poor of the City of London; and One hundred pounds in Tickets to the Poor of Bristol and York, and so proportiona­bly to the Poor of other Corporations, as far as Ten thousand pounds; and that the Magistrates of such respective Corpo­rations should draw Lots, for and on the behalf of their respective Poor, as other Persons did for themselves; whereby it might have happen'd that several Corpo­rations might have been so Fortunate, as to have got such a share in the Mines, as would have discharged them of the whole Burthen of the Poors Tax. But that is now alter'd.

Truly Doctor, I think it was very well intended; How came it to pass that so good a Design was alter'd?

My Lord, the old Partners, who had an Election, whether they would take Money for their Shares, or Subscribe to this New Undertaking, being appre­hensive that by such a Disposition, all those Corporations would have an Inter­est in the Government and Management of the Mines; and not knowing what might be the Consequence of such a thing, did absolutely refuse to Sub­scribe to the Mine-Adventure, unless Sir H. M. would alter that Design; and thereupon after many long Debates about it, and Consultation had with some Learned Divines, it was agreed, That in­stead of Ten thousand pounds in Tick­ets, the Poor shall have a Twelfth part of the Profits of all these Mines, clear of all manner of Charges; and that the same shall be disposed by Sir H. M. to such Person and Persons, and for such pi­ous and charitable Uses, and in such Pro­portion, Manner, and Form as he shall think fit. And, it now standing thus, I doubt not but Sir H. M. will in due time be mindful of the Poor of those Corpo­rations accordingly.

Then it is in Effect the same thing as it was before, only the Charity is changed from a Casual Profit to an Annual standing Revenue for the Poor, which I think is much more equal: But pray, Sir, is there any thing yet given to Charitable Uses?

My Lord, we must not expect that a Child should speak, as soon as it is born.

But if I am not mis-informed, there is a School erected on this account already in Wales.

There is so; but that is but a small Matter, erected on the Credit of this Undertaking: I hope in due time to see great Things accomplished by the Aid of this Charity.

If there be so much good de­signed as you express, I admire this Un­dertaking should be cried down as it is, by some Persons.

My Lord, The Reason of that may be, for that of late Years, there hath been several Projects set on foot, which have either proved unsuccessful, or which is worse, meer Cheats, and the generali­ty of Mankind, seldom Enquire into the Merits of a Cause, but argue, from what has been in another Cause, to what may be in this.

But that is not fair Arguing, for every Cause stands upon its own Bottom. If the Judges of the Land should follow that method, without making Distincti­ons, they would make mad work in West­minster-Hall.

True, my Lord; but they are too wise to fall into such an Error. We are speaking of another sort of People, who never allow themselves time to con­sider any thing, much less to make any Differences or Distinctions; and Man­kind being naturally inclin'd to Satyr and Envy, one malicious or designing Person shall spread a false Report in Town, which will soon be believed by a thou­sand such Inconsiderate Persons, with­out the least Enquiry into the Truth of the Fact.

But why should any Man speak at all against an Undertaking, wherein so much Good is designed; for if it be so fair and charitable, as is represented, it seems to me to deserve Encouragement by all Mankind.

My Lord, there is no Underta­king so Good, so Charitable, or Advan­tagious to the Publick, but some private Persons may be prejudiced by it; and in this Case it's certain there are a great ma­ny Persons, who think themselves very [Page 17]much concerned in Interest against this Undertaking; but I forbear to name any, because I conceive they are under a Mi­stake, and I will not make the Difference wider than it is. I hope a little time will open their Eyes, and dispel all those dark Clouds of Ignorance and Self-interest.

But may not there be another Reason for speaking against this Under­taking? Do you Merchants always speak as you think in these Cases?

My Lord, we ought to do so; but I confess I cannot say we always do what we ought. But is there any great hurt in this? to buy when a Commodity is cheap, and sell when it is dear.

No, Sir; If you don't use some indirect means at that time to make it cheap or dear.

My Lord, The fair Merchant never does any such thing; But I confess it is often done to our Hands by other Persons, and we take the Advantage of it.

Pray give me a Rule to go by in these Cases.

My Lord, it is hard to make a Man of Honour and Pleasure a Man of Business: I hope your Lordship will par­don this Freedom; for all our General Rules have Exceptions; I may give a [Page 18]good Rule, and yet your Lordship may be mistaken, and then I shall be bla­med.

No, good Sir, it it is better to walk by some Rule than none at all: Give me your General Rule, and if I don't apply it well, let the Fault lye at my door.

Why, then my Lord, the Ge­neral Rule that all old Merchants on the Exchange do take, is this; First they observe whether a New Undertaking be founded on a real Substantial Thing, or on a meer Notion; if the Project be only Notional, they seldom venture; and those that do, seldom succeed. But if there be a Staple, or other real Substantial Commodity in the Case, and the Under­taking is brought to bear, then they watch the first Opportunity when it is cried down, and buy in; and when all the World is mad, and run it up into a­nother Extream, then they sell out, and so take the next Opportunity to buy in cheap again.

O, is that your way of Deal­ing? Now we at the other end of the Town do think, that when a Stock be­gins to fall, then the Undertaking falls too; but when the Stock rises, then it is a good Thing, and we lay out our Money in it.

But we generally think other­wise: For nothing is more common, than for the same Man to sell a few Shares cheap, in order to buy in a great many more at the same price. And so on the contrary, several Persons will Combine together to buy a few Shares at a high price, when they really intend to sell out.

This is a pretty Trade indeed. How shall a Man do at this rate to be at any certainty?

Every Person has a very plain Rule to walk by in this Case, if he will but take the trouble to follow it.

Pray Sir what is that? I dare say every Person will follow a Rule that is for his Advantage.

Really, my Lord, a Man would think so: But yet there are some Persons that are either so very full of Business, or very Lazy, that they will rather take things as they find them on the Exchange, then go as far as Lincolns-Inn to know the Truth.

How can they know the Truth at Lincolns-Inn more than at the Ex­change?

My Lord, at the Office in Lin­colns-Inn, every Person may see the Ori­ginal Letters from the Officers at the Mines to the Committee, who must take [Page 20]care that they write nothing but the truth on the peril of their places. And there they may also see the Orders and Proceed­ings of the Committee, and thereby give a great guess at their Opinion of the Mines, and how the Stock and all other Matters stand with them.

This is plain indeed: But I did not imagine that any such Liberty was gi­ven; for few other Companies in England give such a Liberty.

True, my Lord: For many other Companies perhaps subsist upon Credit, but this upon a substantial Foundation; the less others, and the more we are under­stood, the greater esteem will be had both for them and us.

Truly, Sir, this is a great proof of what you observe. But why do some Persons in that part of the World where the Mines lye, speak against this Under­king?

I am one of that Country my self, and your Lordship hears that I speak well of it, and so do a great many more very worthy Gentlemen in that Neigh­bourhood, and many of them are Part­ners with us. But, my Lord, to tell you the truth, we have the same common Frailties amongst us in that part of the World that you have in this; and there [Page 21]are Parties and Factions there, as well as here, and we speak according to the Par­ty we espouse, or the Interest we are en­gaged in; but this never does no hurt amongst us, for we know one anothers Humours, and therefore never mind what either Party says, but enquire into the truth of the Fact, and stick to that.

I think you have said very well; for no Man can tell what private Animo­sities, Envies, Contentions, and separate Interests there are in the World. You can't move for a Bill to make a River Navigable, which a Man would think should generally be esteemed a good Un­dertaking, but you'l find as many Petiti­ons against the Bill, as for it; and so perhaps my Friend hath a Mine in the next County, which he would have to be richer than this. So many Men, so many Minds, and for ought I know so many Interests too: Besides, some Men want Understanding, especially in Mine­ral Works; some want Money; but none want a Natural Inclination to be Censori­ous in no part of the World: Therefore he that can't judge for himself upon a better Foundation than Hearsay and Re­port, is not fit to engage in Mineral Works.

I think so too. But I pray, Doctor, what is your Opinion in this Matter?

I have heard several good Rea­sons given, why Men speak against this Undertaking; Because it is their private Interest, or Policy to do so; or because they don't understand any thing of the Matter, and being prepossessed with an ill Opinion of all Things that look like Projects, will not give themselves the trouble to distinguish, or to be better in­formed. But yet I fancy there may be another Reason assigned, why one sort of Men spend their Wit upon it.

Pray Doctor, what is that?

My Lord, 'tis a little out of the common way of Reasoning; and I can­not tell whether it may be so proper at this time.

Pray Doctor, be free; Let us have your Opinion without any re­serve.

My Lord, since you command it, I will be free. And first, I must observe to your Lordship, that all the World is divided into two Parties, The good and the bad; not but that the best Men have some Failings, and the worst Men some good Qualities: But I mean by this di­stinction, that the World is divided into Men who are chiefly governed by the [Page 23]Suggestions and Influences of a good Spi­rit, and Men who are governed by those of an evil one.

What then, what do you infer from thence?

My Lord, I infer thus much; that as there is in every Man, (who is a little World within himself) an Intestine War between the Flesh and the Spirit; the one inclining him to do good, and the other to do evil; so there is in the great World a perpetual War and Opposition between those two Parties above-mentioned.

But pray, Doctor, what's all this to the Opposition that is made to the Mine-Adventure?

My Lord, I acquainted your Lord­ship, that my present Conception was a little out of the common Road of Rea­son, and am afraid I shall tire your Pati­ence.

No; pray Doctor go on.

My Inference then (in short) is no more but this, That if this Adven­ture be well designed; if so noble a Cha­rity is well intended, and likely to take effect, as I verily believe it will; 'tis no wonder that one of those Parties should violently oppose it; for the Prince of this World has an absolute power over his Subjects; and though [Page 24]wicked Men think themselves free, yet they are really meer Slaves: They have listed themselves as his Soldiers, and so long as they continue in his Service, they must fight his Battles whether they will or no. A Government by an Earthly Prince is outward and visible; but a Go­vernment by a Spirit is inward and invi­sible, and yet the latter is much more pow­erful; for the former only governs the outward Man, but the latter the very Heart and Affections; and certainly who­ever governs the Thoughts of a Man, and his very Heart and Affections, governs the Man himself.

That is certain indeed. But do you really believe that this Charity will prove so considerable a thing.

My Lord, I'le suppose that these Mines should not come near the valua­tion made by the Steward, I'le go as low as ever I heard any Person, and suppose that the Mines should not yield above a fourteenth part of the Steward's Calcula­tion, which no Man of sense ever doubted, yet even in that Case there would be a thousand pounds a Year to Charitable Uses, my Lord, this seems no contemp­tible thing; such a Sum well applied e­very year, may contribute to do no small good in the World.

It is not to be despised in­deed.

But then my Lord, give me leave to suppose on the other hand, what I hope this Gentleman will be able to prove, That it is not impossible, but that the Mines in time may answer even the Steward's highest Cal­culation; and if that should happen, there would be above Twelve thousand pounds every Year applied to Charitable Uses. What a noble Thing would this be! Ought not such a Design to be en­couraged? or at least entertained in the World with favourable Thoughts. A good Man would not rashly condemn any thing of this Nature, but would at least suspend his Judgment for a season, concluding with himself, that if this thing were a Cheat, two or three Years time would fully discover it; but if it be a good thing, why should we rashly and hastily engage against it?

Truly Doctor, you have said a great deal in this Matter, which deserves to be considered; and I confess I am so far convinced, that I can see no reason to judge but that the Mine-Adventure may be a profitable and good Underta­king, notwithstanding the Opposition it has met with by some Persons in the World. Thus much I can say for it, [Page 26]That in the little Experience I have had, I generally found, that the best Designs have met with the greatest Opposition; but I confess, I could never give any good Reason for it before.

This Discourse has really ex­plain'd a great Mystery to me, for I con­fess, I could not understand why so ma­ny Reverend Fathers and Doctors of the Church had engaged in this Adventure; nor why the Undertaking it self was so much cried down by some Persons? But now I am satisfied.

My Lord, I must beg leave to add this one thing more; That though this Undertaking be so much cried down by one Party, yet it is as much cried up by the other, and I hope with much bet­ter Reason.

Truly I begin to be of that O­pinion. But pray Doctor, give me leave to be a little more inquisitive in the Mat­ter of the Mines.

My Lord, I don't pretend to understand any thing of Mines; I have only presum'd to lay before your Lordship the Reasons that induced me to be con­cern'd in them; I really believe that this is an honest Ʋndertaking, and well design'd; but I must leave the rest to this worthy Gentleman, who may perhaps be capable [Page 27]to answer your Lordships farther Enqui­ries.

My Lord, I must confess I have taken some pains to be rightly inform'd in this Matter, as became me to do, and as far as my Capacity extends, shall be ready to give your Lordship any farther Satis­faction.

I have heard that though you may raise great quantities of Oar, yet your Oar is so very hard and poor, that it will turn to no Profit, the Charges of Smelting is so great, and the yield of the Oar so little.

That Objection was formerly made, but is long since vanished; ever since the several sorts of Oar were tried publickly in Stationers-Hall, at a General Meeting of the Partners; which was done with that Exactness, as gave every Person entire Satisfaction, and I thought 'twas impossible for that Objection ever to be started again.

I beg your pardon, Sir, I did not hear what produce those Trials yield­ed.

The three several sorts of Oar were brought into the Hall in a Trunk, with Partitions; and the Oars were first tried severally by themselves, and afterwards jointly together; and the poorest Oar [Page 28]yielded about two Thirds in Lead, and the best about three Fourths. I desire any Person to shew a large Vein richer than this in England.

But how did it appear that the Oar tried in Stationers-Hall, was the Oar from those Mines?

The Adventurers sent for a Ship-loading of Lead and Oar, on pur­pose to have a fair Trial in large Quan­tities, that they might be at a certainty in this Particular, and the Workmen below made Affidavit, That the Lead and Oar put on Board the Ship called the Bro­thers Desire, Thomas Friend Master, at Abcrdavoy, was the Produce of the Mines of Bwlch-Yr-Eskyr-hyr; and the said Ma­ster made Affidavit that he brought the same Oar to the Port of London; and the Master of the Wharf there proved, that he took that very Oar out of the said Vessel, and brought it to the said Hall, where it was immediately tried.

That was exceeding fair and full proof indeed.

But besides, the Committee have answered that Objection very fully in their printed State of the Mines; for there they acquaint us that they make sive pounds and upwards of every Tun of Oar, one with another, and in large quan­tities, [Page 29]over and above all manner of Char­ges whatsoever; which I think, my Lord, is a very great Profit, and the finest Trade in the World, if the Mines hold.

I confess I think it is a prodigious Profit: But are you sure they don't mistake?

No, my Lord, I have seen the Trials, and the Original Entries in their Books at large; and I am satisfied that the clear Profits at present, is above Six pounds per Tun, but I commend the Com­mittee to set it down very cautiously, for fear any Accident should happen here­after, by the fall of the Price of Lead, or of Lytharge, or the like, for which they ought to make an Allowance.

This Answer has prevented a­nother Doubt, Whether their Lead be good or not? For if they make so much Profit, their Lead must needs be a good Commodity; though I confess I have heard that their Lead was brittle, and fit for no other use but to make Bullets or Shot; and that the Oar was so poor, it was not possible to make better Lead with it.

This Objection arises altoge­ther from the unskilfulness of the Per­son that makes it; for hard or poor Oar smelted by a skilful Artist, will make as good Lead, though not as much in pro­portion, as rich Oar; but there is indeed [Page 30]more Art and Skill in the doing of it, and many Persons that are used to soft Oars, do not understand the right way of Smelting hard Oars, which has been the occasion of this mistake. But, my Lord, this Objection has also vanished a long time ago, ever since we made the said Trials, and produced our Lead on the Key of London; and yet that Lead was not made by the most skilful Artist; for the Lead we now make is beyond that, being exceeding tuff, and fit for all man­ner of uses: But at present, till greater quantities of Oar shall be raised, we do for the most part sell our Lead in a sort of a Powder, called Lytharge.

I have seen that which they call Lytharge of Gold and Lytharge of Silver, and as I remember it comes from Poland, or some of those Foreign Parts. Is yours like that?

O, my Lord, much beyond it; there's none will buy Foreign Lytharge since this was made.

Why? Is this a new thing?

Yes, my Lord, good Lytharge was never made a Merchantable Commo­dity in England, till Mr. Robert Lydall, Chief Operator to the Company, made the Discovery, for which he hath a Patent from his present Majesty.

All Refiners will tell you, that they ever made Lytharge in their common way of Refining.

True, my Lord, but never a Merchantable Commodity to Profit or for Sale in quantities; all the Drugsters, Apothecaries, Potters and Glass-makers a­bout Town can testifie this truth; for it was so bad, and mixed with their Wood­ashes and Dust, that it was not fit for their use, and therefore Refiners were necessitated to reduce it into Lead again with great waste: But this Lytharge is made another way, never known in Eng­land before, and is so clean and free from all mixture, that it far exceeds all Foreign Lytharge, and even Red-lead it self. And wherever this Lytharge is known in England, or in any Foreign Parts, they will not buy any other Ly­tharge, as I am informed.

Pray Sir, what is the use of Lytharge?

My Lord, it is bought by the Drugsters, and used by the Apothecaries, Surgeons, and Painters; but the great use of it is by the Potters, in glazing Earthen Ware, and by the Glass-makers in making fine Glass.

Do these Persons take off any great quantities?

I leave it to your Lordship to judge; every Traveller knows that there is Earthen Ware used all over the World, and that all this Earthen Ware must be glazed, or else it is so apt to gather dust and filth, that it is not fit for use: And all this Glazing is with Lead Calcined and made into Powder.

Earthen Ware was made long before your Invention, and therefore the Potters can stand in no need thereof▪

True, my Lord; the Potters finding no sort of Lytharge made fine and clean enough for their purpose, were for­ced with great Care, Trouble, and Charge to Calcine the Lead themselves, or by continual stirring in an Iron Kettle, to make it into a Course Powder, which they ground fine at the Mill, and so mixed it with other proper Ingredients, and made it fit for the Glazing Trade. But, my Lord, in this way of making, the Fumes are very unhealthy to the Men, and the Operation chargeable to the Master; so our Lytharge is not only much finer and better for their use, but cheaper al­so.

Nay then, you will be sure to have all their Custom. But how do the Glass-makers use it, for that is a gene­ral Commodity too?

They use it instead of Red­lead, which is one Ingredient, in their best Glasses; it is of such an Oily, Trans­parent, and yet Binding Nature, that it is of singular use to them.

But if Red-lead serve their turn, why will they use Lytharge?

For the same Reasons as the Potters, because it is better and cheaper.

How is it better?

Red-lead is frequently mixed with Dustand Ashes, and often adulte­rated with Red-oaker and Brick-dust; but this Lytharge is always made pure, without either Dust or Ashes mixed with it. And it is observed, that the Glass made with this Lytharge is much finer, more white and clear; and which is ano­ther great Advantage, is not so apt to crack when cold, as Glass made with Red-lead is; which is more burnt in the fire than Lytharge, and so more short and brittle in its Nature and Use.

Then it is much better indeed: But how is it cheaper?

Because Lytharge goes farther than Red-lead, which is a Compound, and has Water, &c. mixed with it, and all that is added to the Lead it self, is useless to the Glass-makers, and either consumes, or eva­porates in the fire; so that Twenty hundred [Page 34]of this fine Lytharge will make near Two and twenty hundred of Red-lead; and as has been observed, Lytharge not being so much burnt in the fire, but being of a much softer nature than Red-lead, sooner and at less Charge melteth again in the fire, and mixeth better with the Sand and Ashes, used by the Glass-makers to their great Advantage.

Then indeed if you sell the Ly­tharge at the price of Red-lead, it has an apparent Advantage.

My Lord, this Lytharge former­ly was sold at above Twenty pounds per Tun, but now the Company, being wil­ling to make it an Universal Commodi­ty over all the World for those Uses, are content to sell it near the price of Red-lead, which is the reason that I asserted it was cheaper, as well as better, for the use of the Glass-makers.

Do the Potters and Glass-makers in London actually buy and use this Ly­tharge?

My Lord, they do, and agree these Facts above-mentioned; but, this is yet a new thing, and I can't tell whether all of them know the use of it or not; nor whether all are so ingenuous as to confess the Truth, because they may apprehend that it may raise the [Page 35]price of a Commodity they do use; but many of the Chief of these Trades have freely owned these things to be true to their Knowledge and Experience.

You have opened my Eyes ve­ry much in this Matter; for I really thought the Lytharge that you seem so much to depend on, could have but little vent.

Though I have said so much of the Nature and Use of Lytharge, and consequently have proved the great vent of it, yet, my Lord, I must also inform your Lordship, that we never depended so ve­ry much on the vent of our Lytharge.

No! what would you do then?

My Lord, we can make Red-lead with our Lytharge, and make as much or more Money of it; and none can make better Red-lead, or cheaper than we, for our Lytharge is almost Red-lead in its own nature; it wants only grinding and co­louring, and the work is done, whereas others are at much greater Charges.

But you can't vent all your Lead in Lytharge or Red-lead; What will you do with the rest?

We can vent a great deal that way; and the rest we can sell either in Lead, as others do; or else refine it, and [Page 36]take out the Silver and then reduce it into Lead again, which we can do to good profit.

But is your Lead reduced, as good as the other? for it's said that such Lead is not so good.

That is a Vulgar Error (my Lord) for we find by Experience that our Lead is the better, and indeed it a­grees with the General Rule in all Cases of Metals, that the oftner it is refined in the Fire, the purer the Metal.

Then certainly it is your in­terest to refine all your Lead, if your Silver turn to any account. Pray Sir, what is your Profit by the Silver?

My Lord, It is not always the same; but sometimes more, sometimes less.

What is the Reason of that?

I'le endeavour to explain it to your Lordship; but I must first put you in mind of a Common Experi­ment of slitting a Groat with Sulphur or Brimstone set on fire, and if you continue the fire to it, it will turn the Silver Groat to a black Dust, which can never by any Art be reduced into Silver again. So that Sulphur (it seems) is a great Enemy to Silver, and being melted together in the fire, destroys the very Bo­dy of it.

I remember that Experiment very well; but what then?

My Lord, this Silver-oar abounds with Sulphur, and in the Smelting of it in the Fire, the Sulphur destroys a great part of the Silver, sometimes more, some­times less, according to the Skill and Care of the Smelter.

If this be the Case, I can't see how it can be prevented at all, but that the Sulphur will always destroy the Sil­ver, notwithstanding any Care of the Smelter.

My Lord, some Operators use such a Flux and in Smelting the Lead­oar, as imbibes, fixes, or destroys the strength of the Sulphur, before it has any great operation on the Body of the Silver; which Flux is not commonly known; and where it is, there is Skill and Care in the very Use and Applicati­on thereof, and in the ways and proper seasons of mixing and stirring the Oar and Flux (which is a Compound) to­gether: And this is the Reason that some­times we have more Silver, and some­times less out of the same quantity of Lead.

These are things I did not un­derstand before; but I confess you have made it very plain to me, that such things [Page 38]may be, by your Instance in this common Experiment, which almost every Person knows to be true.

Really my Lord, this Gentle­man has extreamly pleased me with this Account of the Matter, for it Answers all the Objections founded on the incer­tainty of the Yield in Silver, and unskil­ful Persons, when they hear that the Oar yields sometimes more, and some­times less, are apt to conclude that it yields nothing at all.

There is another great Reason which occasions an uncertainty of our Yield in Silver, which is this; We have several Ribs of Oar in the same Veins, which lye by one another like Planks in a Floor; as for instance, in the great Vein, we have Potters-Oar, or Soft-Oar, which is of a large Grain; Starry-Oar, which is of a smaller; and Steely-Oar, which is of the smallest Grain of all; and generally the smallest grained Oars do a­bound with most Silver. But at present these Oars, being all mixed and smelted confusedly together, we have more or less Silver in every Operation in proportion to the quantity of small grained Oars that happened to be in each parcel of Lead refined; and this might be the occasion that some Persons formerly thought our [Page 39]Oar so very poor, and others so very rich in Silver.

If so, methinks you should take care in raising your Oar, to keep e­very sort by it self.

We do intend to do so for the future; though it is not improper in some Cases to smelt them altogether in a due proportion. But, my Lord, that we do make profit of the Silver, to the advantage of the Nation, as well as our selves, is so fully and fairly tried and entred in our Books, that there is no room for any Objection in that Case, unless we can suppose that all the Gentlemen of the Committee would not only be guilty of a notorious Falsity in their Journals and Leidgers, but also pay a fictitious Profit to the Company out of their own Pockets, which would be ridi­culous to imagine.

I am sure it would be ridiculous to do so: But now you speak of the Committee again, pray do they really buy in, as is affirmed, or sell out; for I had rather judge of any Man's Opinion of the Mines (that has a knowledge of them) by his Actions, than by his Words.

I have particularly examined that Matter, and do find that the Com­mittee have bought in, and that not any have sold out any part of their Principal [Page 40]Money adventured, or Shares arising from the same.

That is a very clear Evidence that they do not believe the Mine-Adven­ture to be a Cheat: But pray, what has the Steward of the Mines done in that Case?

My Lord, I see your Coach is at the Door, and it is but a little way to the Office in Lincolns-Inn new Square, if your Lordship please, I will wait on you there, where you may receive farther Sa­tisfaction in this and many other Parti­culars.

Do the Company suffer any Person to look into their Books?

Any Partner or Person of Qua­lity. We are not asham'd of our Pro­ceedings.

My Lord, I will wait on your Lordship, if you please. What say you Doctor, will you go along with us?

My Lord, I am ready to attend your Lordship wherever you command me.

Come Sir, we are all agreed; if you please to shew us the way.

My Lord, This is the Office for the present, which Sir H. M. affords the Company gratis, for the Conveniency of the present Committee.

Pray Sir, be pleased to intro­duce us.

I obey your Lordships Com­mands. Sir, I have brought these Noble Lords to see the Method of your Ac­counts relating to the Mine-Adventure.

Sir, the Books are at your Service; you shall see them in what or­der you please.

I thank you, Sir. My Lord, Here is a Register of the Principal Money adventured; and here is the Transfer Book of the Principal Money, according to the Form used in the Bank of England; and here is the Journal and Leidger to the said Transfer Book.

Very well; I see you are in exact Method of Merchants Accounts: If this be a Cheat, I am sure it is a very formal one.

But pray see for the Name of Mr. Waller, and of the Gentlemen of the Committee, how they stand there.

My Lord, Here is an exact Alphabet to the Leidger, by which you'l find all their Names and Accounts in a moment.

That's a very good method. O, here is Mr. Waller's Accounts: I see he keeps his Original Stock, and has not sold out any part thereof. On my word, he is in deep.

My Lord, he ventured all his Arrears of Salary for many Years, at the Rate of Two hundred and fifty pounds per Annum, and chose rather to take it in the Mine-Adventure Tickets then in ready Money.

I think there can't possibly be a greater Demonstration of his good Opi­nion of the Mines, then this I now see with my Eyes; for certainly if he did not think well of this Undertaking, he would have sold out at any Rate before this time.

There is one thing more which demonstrates Mr. Waller's sincerity.

What's that, Sir?

Mr. Waller, in his Essay on the Value of the Mines, and also at the first General Meeting, did propose to take his old Salary of Two hundred and fifty pounds for the first Year, till the Works were set in order; and afterwards to ac­cept One hundred pounds per Annum for every Ten thousand pounds per An­num clear Profits gained by the Partners out of the said Mines, over and above all manner of Charges, whereby he must bring in a clear Profit of Twenty five thousand pounds per Annum to the Part­ners, before he can equal his former Salary; What does your Lordship think of this?

Truly, Sir, I think this is be­yond all; What does he mean? does he ever think to make more than his old Sa­lary?

Yes, he does; he has such an extraordinary Opinion of the Mines, that he does not doubt but at this Rate he shall in time receive a Salary of Sixteen hundred pounds a year.

Well, if he does, much good may it do him. But is the Company ab­solutely bound up to this Proposal?

Not by any Deed in writing; but I can't tell how far they may be ob­lig'd in honour.

Sixteen hundred pounds a year is a vast Salary; they may be very generous to him, and yet take time to consider of setting some bounds to the Proposal; as for instance, That he shall have a Salary of One hundred pounds per Annum for every Ten thousand pounds Profit, not exceeding five or six hundred pounds a year. I think that is very fair.

Well, that may be considered when his Year is out; we must not be unkind to him, on any account whatso­ever; he is certainly both an honest Man and a skilful Miner. And every Under­taking of this Nature does very much depend on the Integrity and Skill of the [Page 44]Persons, who have the management thereof below, as well as above.

'Tis very true. But pray, Sir, now we are here, (for we detain this Gentleman, the Accomptant, from his Business,) Let us just cast our Eye on what the Gentlemen of the Committee have done.

I'le look them out; here are their Accounts.

I see they all keep their Origi­nal Stock; and they are most of them great Purchasers since the Adventure was drawn.

Yes, my Lord.

Pray sum it up, how much they have purchased in the whole amongst them all.

I will, my Lord, 'tis just Eight thousand seven hundred and fifty five pounds in the Principal Money adventu­red.

Well, I see the Gentlemen of the Committee are honest Gentlemen, and speak the truth. I think nothing in the World can be more Convincing. I re­member in all the late Projects that were not founded on an honest bottom, the principal Promoters of them sold out im­mediately, and their Transfer Books, Journals, and Leidgers were kept private, [Page 45]that no Man could tell what they did: But here they not only have stood their ground, but laid out more Money; and all their Proceedings are fair and above board.

Why, my Lord, there are those in the World who say that all this sig­nifies nothing.

It may be so: But I suppose they are such as you have already de­scribed.

That they are indeed; they are resolved to make the Mine-Adventure to be a meer Cheat, right or wrong.

But, pray Sir, what do they say?

Why truly, they very fairly tell us, That the Committee have done this only to put a better Gloss on the Mat­ter.

That's very likely indeed; the Merchants and Lawyers do use to throw away so many Thousand pounds only to get another Person a good Name, Pray are they old Partners, or new Adventu­rers.

My Lord, the far major Num­ber of the Committee are New-Adventu­rers.

Then it's plain, those Gentle­men are only concerned in the Profit, not in the Credit of the Undertaking.

They are so. Well, my Lord, I think we have seen enough to fatisfie any reasonable Men.

Nay, pray my Lord, now you are here, look upon the other Books; Here is the Register of Shares, the Trans­fer Book, and the Journal and Leidger thereto belonging, and also the Alphabet to the Leidger; and here your Lordship may also see the same Persons standing their ground, and purchasing more Shares also. The Committee have purchased Two hundred forty two Shares, besides the said Sum of Eight thousand seven hundred and fifty five pounds in Blank Tickets.

I see it, Sir; There is no room for any Rational Man to object any thing (in my judgment) against the fairness of these Proceedings. Come, let us go.

Nay, my Lord, let me shew you all, now you have taken this trou­ble; here is our Waste-Book Journal and Leidger for the Quick Stock.

Pray Sir, shew me how much your Stock is in the whole?

My Lord, here your Lordship may see that our Original Stock in ready Money is Twenty thousand pounds; which is the more to be valued, because it must be made up again compleat upon e­very Dividend.

On my word, you have a No­ble Stock: But some do say that the great­est part of it is spent already.

My Lord, here is the Account of it; be pleased to take notice how false that Allegation is.

I observe, your Twenty thou­sand pounds is not really lessen'd in all this time above Five thousand pounds; and I see that some part of this has been laid out in Stotes, building Houses for the Miners, Carriage of Oar, Stones, and o­ther incident Charges, that will not be re­peated every Year; and in Smelting and Refining. I think you have been extraor­dinary Husbands: Nay, I see you have near Four thousand pounds standing out in Lead, Lytharge, and in Merchants hands.

I hope, my Lord, you will judge of all the other Stories raised of us by the falsity of this Particular.

I shall make no ill use of what I observe; and indeed I cannot but be of opinion, that you are in a very good [Page 48]Condition, and that all things are very prudently managed: But suppose any Accident should happen to these Books.

My Lord, to prevent that, we have here Duplicates of all our Chief Books.

If you have not a great Trea­sure, it is pity but you had; for I think the Bank of England can't keep their Books in a more exact method.

I shall not trouble your Lord­ships, much more at present, but here is a few other Books which are convenient upon this occasion: Here is a Book for En­tring all Accounts in haec verba; a Book of printed Receipts for Interest Money; a Book to enter all Letters; a Cash Book; three Books for Entring Orders; one for the General Meeting; another for the Grand Committee; and another for the Private or Select Committe; here is In­dex's to all these Books; a Docket-Book for short Entries, and a Book of Petty Expences; a Book of Entring Caveats, and an Alphabetical Index of all Letters of Attorney and Proxy.

Hay-day, here is no end of your Books: Pray what Salaries do you give for keeping these Books.

We have at present but two Officers above, viz. a Gash-keeper and an Accomptant, and both stand us in no [Page 49]more than One hundred and twenty pounds per Annum: But we must in time, as Profits arise, and the Trouble encrea­ses, allow more Clerks, and consequent­ly better Salaries.

Who would believe that it was possible things should be so well mana­ged, and at the same time so strangely re­presented by some Persons?

Nay, my Lord, here is one thing more that pleases me very well; Here is an Alphabetical Index of all Letters, and of the Progress that has been made in all the Veins, Levels, Adits, and Cross-Drifts to each Vein, so that your Lord­ship may readily see an Account of the Mines, and what Oar is raised in each Vein, and by every set of Workmen, without reading all the Books and Let­ters at large, which, my Lord, is a great help to us Men of Business, who have not always time to be poring over all the Books and Papers at length.

Nothing in the World can be more Exact and Satisfactory; I must now believe I can ask no Questions but what you will readily Answer, and I shall not ask them somuch for my own Satisfaction, as that I may be able to Answer all others.

Pray, Sir, How came it to pass that you have not in all this time set on some [Page 50]Engine to drain the Water in the great Work, and raise Oar there? for I re­member I have often heard this Objection made.

My Lord, this thing has been several times under Consideration before the Committee, and in particular the ma­king use of Capt. Savory's Fire-Engine, which I take to be a very ingenious In­vention, and deserves all due Encourage­ment.

Well, Sir; and how chance the Committee did not make use of it?

Not for want of a good Opi­nion of the Engine, my Lord; but be­cause the best Engines are chargeable, and a Level, when made, carries off the Wa­ter without any Charge at all.

Pray, Sir, What do you mean by a Level?

My Lord, a Level is called in some places an Adit, in others a Sough, or Drain, and may be compared to a Common-Shore, carried on from the bottom of the Hill at a dead Level, un­der ground, to the further end of it, to Drain off all the Water from the Mines, as they work them, without the help of any Water-Engine, or any further charge.

That is very fine indeed. How deep is your Level from the Surface of the Ground?

In some places more, in some places less, according to the rise and fall of the Ground; but in the deepest place it is Sixty four yards, or there­abouts.

That is a Noble Level to drain Sixty four yards in Oar from the Sur­face. But How will you sink a Pit or Shaft down to such a deepness to let off the Water?

My Lord, the Miners work from the bottom of the Hill, or Level, on se­veral Stages or Stelches one above ano­ther, till they come near the Surface, and so meet the Shaft, that is siinkng down­wards: But there are many Shafts in o­ther places sunk down above a Hundred yards deep, and in Hungary above Three hundred yards, as Brown in his Travels to the Mine-Towns in Hungary informs us, when he says, That at the Mine of Chrem­nits he went down by the Pit, called by the Name of the Emperor Rodolphus's Shaft, gently descending by the turning about of a large Wheel, to which the Cable is fastned, a Hundred and eight Fathoms deep into the Earth; and after many hours being in the Mine, was drawn out again by the Emperor Leopold's Shaft, streight up, above Three hun­dred yards; a height surpassing that [Page 52]of the Pyramids above a third part.

But their Works perhaps are not so much troubled with Water as yours are.

They may not, my Lord; but our Method is very easie: For when we have sunk down as deep as we conveni­ently can for Water, we bore a Hole through the Rock quite down to the Le­vel, and so let off all the Water in the Common-shore.

That's an excellent way indeed; but pray, Sir, how can you bore through hard Rocks?

My Lord, we have sharp Chi­zels, skrew'd to Iron-rods, of about Four foot long, which are also skrew'd toge­ther to what length you please; with which we pounce the Rock into a Pow­der, and by continually turning about, we keep the Hole round, and with the working of the Water, and motion of the Iron-rod, the Rock or Stone thus beat to dust, will in great measure rise up to the top of the Ground, and work out of it self; but when the Hole begins to be choaked, we take up the Rods, un­skrew the Chizel, and skrew on a Borier, with which we cleanse the Hole, and then put down the Chizel again, and by this means we can bore a Yard [Page 53]in a Day in a very hard Rock.

This is a very fine Invention; you'l make us perfect Miners: But, pray Sir, give me leave to ask you, Whether it would not be worth your while to use some Water-Engine in the mean time, till your Levels can be brought home?

If the Committee did believe that it would be long before those Levels could be brought home to the Veins, I doubt not but they would make use of some Water-Engine; but the Reason which sweyed with them to defer the use of such Engines a little longer, was this, (as I am informed) Their Shaft sunk down in the great Vein (which is now fall'n in) was about Twenty nine or Thir­ty yards deep, and having carried on the Work in a Drift under Ground about Ten yards or more near to a Bogg, the Water thereof, and the small Stream which runs through the same, came in so fast into this Drift, that they were not able to withstand it without a very great Charge; and they are of Opinion, that it will require several Engines to draw off so great a quantity of Water; the Charges whereof, and of placing the same under Ground, and of sinking more Shafts for that purpose, and repairing the old Shafts and Drifts, and the Wages [Page 54]of Men to work the Engines, will (by the Computation of what has been done and actually practised in other Mines) amount to a very considerable Sum of Money, when perhaps by that time these Engines shall be made, the Shafts sunk and made fit to receive them, the Engines carried down and placed to Work, the great Levels, Adits or Soughs may be carried home to the several Veins, and thereby the Water drained off without a­ny Charge, and no farther use made of all those expenceful Engines. And there­fore though such Engines are necessary, and very advantagious to all Works, that have not this great advantage of Ground, as we have, to make a Level to drain off the Water: Yet in our particular Case the Committee did conceive that it would not be very acceptable to the General Meeting, that they should expend out of the Trading-stock any considerable Sum on that account, or (at least) that an Affair of this Nature did require farther consi­deration.

The Committee do well to be saving of the Stock: But, pray Sir, why could not the Committee raise Oar in the Levels, and also with the help of these Engines at the same time, to pay all these Charges?

Because I doubt the Partners would not be pleased to pay Forty shil­lings a Tun, or some other great price, for raising Oar with Engines, when they will be able to raise Oar enough in the Levels for Five or Six shillings per Tun.

That's a good Reason indeed, and I am glad this Objection was thought off, because many Persons argued from hence, That this great Vein was only a Belly of Oar and worked out; for other­wise (say they) the Partners might pre­sently raise Oar with the help of an En­gine, but you have fully satisfied me in that matter.

That Objection has been for­merly answered; A Belly of Oar being Ten, Twenty, or Thirty, (but none a­bove Fifty yards in length, but this Vein has been found for several Hundred yards, and all the parallel Veins in this Mountain shew this to be a mistake. But, my Lord, the Committee (who are in great Expectation of coming up shortly with their Levels to this great Vein) do yet intend (if any Accident should hap­pen to delay them beyond the Time pro­posed) to make use of a Water-Engine, which will immediately demonstrate this to be a settled Vein.

Pray, Sir, what is the longest Time proposed to carry the Level home to the great Vein?

Mr. Waller (the Steward) in his Essay on the value of the Mines, pro­poses to have a Years time to set the Works in order, and carry up the Levels to Oar in the respective Veins, which ex­pires the latter end of May next, being just a Year from the time he went down to the Mines.

I thought he had proposed it much sooner; I am sure I have heard some Persons say so.

I remember that an eminent Counsel being charged with giving an O­pinion that did not hold good in West­minster-Hall, asked the Gentleman where he gave such an Opinion, for he did not remember it, nor could he find his Name in his Book of Fees; No, says the Gen­tleman, but if you remember, Sir, I met you on the Road between Worcester and London, and put this Case to you. That might be indeed, says the Lawyer, had you no more wit than to try your Cause upon a Travelling Opinion. So I doubt this might be a sudden Opinion from Mr. Waller: He is a Sanguine Man, and such Men are apt to believe what they mightily wish for; and yet I fancy he never gave such [Page 57]an Opinion, but with his usual Precau­tion, in case the Rocks under Ground did not prove harder than they were at that time: But since they did, and to such a degree of hardness, that whereas the Miners then made good Wages upon a Bargain of Thirty shillings a Fathom, they can now scarce make their Wages at Six pounds a Fathom. I think we should be as hard upon him as the Rocks are, if we should tye him up to more than he deliberately proposed in his Essay.

Truly I think so too; and he does very fairly, if he keeps that Time; for I seldom knew a Master-builder that promised to build a House in a Year, ever finish it under two, some unlucky Ac­cident or other frequently falls out (be­yond Expectation) to delay the Work, though at last he may finish a very stately Pile of Building, and give very good Content.

Your Lordship observes very well: But in this Case we have reason to believe Mr. Waller will use his utmost En­deavours, because his Salary is to arise out of the Profits of the Mines. And I find by his Letters he has a good heart still; he tells the Committee, That if they'l have a little patience, he doubts not but to shew them Welsh Potozi more glorious [Page 58]than they expect, or he ever promised.

Considering all Circumstances, how deeply he adventures himself, and how he still stands his ground, I must confess I can't but think he believes he shall make a great Thing of it; but yet I perceive many Persons do not fancy those high Expressions; I think his For­ty pounds a year for every Share, did him no great kindness.

That Matter has indeed been the most exposed by our Adversaries a­bout Town of any thing; for many Per­sons taking things upon common Fame, without reading over the Essay and Pro­posals at large, really thought that the Adventurers were to have Forty pounds per Annum for every Share presently with­out any more ado; whereas Mr. Waller did only write an Essay on the value of the Mines, (not a positive Valuation,) and there offers to the old Partners (with all due submission to better Judgment) his Opinion thereof; together with his Reasons at large for the same, that they might themselves Judge of the Validity of them; by all which he does indeed seem to demonstrate to my poor Capaci­ty, that in time, with a large Stock, and good Management, the Mines may be brought to an extraordinary great value; [Page 59]and then it's observed, that at the high­est valuation every Share will be worth Forty pounds per Annum. But Mr. Wal­ler positively declares in the very En­trance of his Essay, (pag. 6.) That he ex­pected one year to put the Works in order, and even then (though a considerable Profit might be made) yet he did not pretend un­der some years more to bring the Works to the highest valuation; that is, to Forty pounds a year for every Share. But what he means by (some years) I cannot tell, nor I believe he can but guess himself, for all that depends on Accidents under Ground, and on the Management by the Partners. But here is nothing that could lead any rational Person, that read this Book, into an Expectation of having Forty pounds a year presently.

No certainly: But is there no­thing in the other Proposals that could lead the World into this mistake?

No, my Lord, it is so far from that, that all those Papers, even the printed Lists at the Drawing, (where the Publishers that agreed with the Clerks for the Copy put it in, to make the Lists sell the better for their own Profit) all refer to the said Essay; and although Mr. Waller's Valuation was very proper to be taken notice of upon such an Occasion, [Page 60]yet the value of the Mines in all the Pro­posals of the Mine-Adventure is expresly set at less than a fourteenth part of Mr. Waller's Calculation, which perhaps is as much too little as the other is thought too great.

That was very cautiously done indeed, and sufficient to prevent such a Mistake; but if Persons will buy an E­state, and never look over the Writings, 'tis their own fault, if they expect more than they ought. But, pray Sir, will nothing less than Forty pounds a year presently for every Share serve their turn, How much is that per Cent. profit?

Forty pounds a year at Ten years Purchase for a Lease of One and twenty years is worth Four hundred pounds, and I think a Share was valued at that time at Twenty pounds, or there­abouts, and at that rate the gain from e­very Share must have been Two thou­sand pounds for every hundred pounds adventured.

A very modest and reasonable expectation, especially for such Persons who were to run no hazard in the Ad­venture, for even the Unfortunate (it seems) were to be repaid their Principal Money adventured, with Interest at Six pounds per Cent.

They were so: But I don't find that any of the Adventurers did ex­pect such a present Profit; but our Ad­versaries abroad have raised this Notion on purpose to make themselves merry, and ridicule this Undertaking.

I remember a great General, when he was told that the conquered Party made very severe Songs upon him, instead of being in a Passion, replied with Contempt, Fye, don't take notice of it, you must give the poor Rogues leave to be merry: So since you are satisfied you have got the advantage of being concern­ed in a good Mine, let those that envy your Happiness be as merry as they please.

But pray, Sir, let us come to the Merit of the Cause, what Profit do you believe may probably be made by this Undertaking? I see you fully un­derstand it, and I shall very much de­pend on your Judgment.

My Lord, it behoves a Man to be very cautious in giving his Opinion in this Case; I can judge for my self, but am not willing to engage another upon my Judgment; your Lordship sees I have ventured my Money, and that is the best proof of any Man's good Opi­nion.

I dont' doubt the Undertaking in General; I verily believe by what I have heard, that no Man will be a Looser by it; nay, I will go so much farther, that I believe there is a fair Prospect of great Advantage; but I would fain know what you, (Sir) do really expect, and in what time?

I humbly beg your Lordships pardon, the Nature of the thing will not admit of any positive Answer to the value, nor to the time.

I don't desire a positive Answer, Sir; I am satisfied that no Person can be absolutely certain of any thing that is out of his sight, especially under Ground; but since they say that Nature is regular in all its Productions, as well under Ground as above, there may be fair. Probabilities observed, and a Person that hath had Experience in Mineral Works, may better guess at the value, and the time, then a Stranger to such Affairs, therefore I desire only to know your own private Opinion, as near as you can guess at the matter.

I shall be very unwilling to disoblige your Lordship in any thing; (and therefore since your Lordship com­mands it) I'le venture to give my private Thoughts, and the present Notion [Page 63]I have; but I may be mistaken.

So may any Man; especially under Ground.

But, Sir, I shall be obliged, if you please to go on with your present Opinion, let it be what it will.

My Lord, I have often heard this Case compared to the Calculation of the value of a Horse, by Arithmati­cians upon giving a Farthing a Nail for all the Nails in his Shoes, and doub­ling the number of Farthings at every Nail; that is to say, by giving one Far­thing for the first Nail, two Farthings for the second Nail, four Farthings for the third Nail, eight Farthings for the fourth Nail, and so on by doubling at every Nail, and then adding them up together, which accounting eight Nails in a Shoe; and so Thirty two Nails in all the Four Shoes, will amount to four Millions four hundred seventy four thou­sand nine hundred twenty four pounds, twelve shillings and four pence, as by the Table or Calculation thereof here adjoyn­ed may more plainly appear.

This seems to be an incredible Sum to any Person that is not skill'd in A­rithmetick; and yet to others, it is as plain and evident, as Two and Three make Five. Now, my Lord, some­thing like this I take to be the Case of the Mines; We must be content to play at small Game at first, for two or three years, but (I doubt not) they will fully answer our Expectation at the last.

Pray, Sir, can you entertain such a thought as to double your Profit every year? that would be a vast thing indeed.

I find that all Authors and ex­perienced Miners do agree, with old Ze­nophon upon the Silver Mines of Athens, That our Gains will be greater or less in proportion to the number of hands we em­ploy: And therefore if we can employ double the number of Hands, and con­sequently raise double the quantity of Oar, why can't we double our Pro­fit?

That seems very plain. But, pray Sir, How many Men do you im­ploy at present?

Not above an Hundred in all manner of Works.

How so?

My Lord, we have no room for more to work, till our Levels and Cross-drifts are carried home to the seve­ral Veins; for we employ as many Men as can stand to work in every place, and we change them every eight hours, day and night, which is all that can be expected in this Case.

Very well; But when your Levels are brought home to the Veins, then I suppose you'l employ double the number of Men presently.

We shall employ more Men to be sure; but I cannot tell how many. But this I conceive I may venture to say, That at the end of the Year, after the Levels are carried home, we shall be able to employ double the number of Men in raising of Oar, to what we shall do at the beginning of the Year, for we shall be making more Stages or Stelches for Men to work upon every Month.

And so at that rate you pro­pose to double your Profit also every Year.

That is my Notion of the Matter, my Lord, I can't see how it can be otherwise; but I do not pretend to make such an exact Calculation, that the Profit shall be just double to a Farthing; but thereabouts, or something near the [Page 67]matter, I conceive it will be. Pray, my Lord, what can your Lordship object against the probability of this Notion?

Truly, Sir, I can't tell what to say against it at present; but for far­ther Explanation pray give a particu­lar Instance.

I will, my Lord; and because I'le keep within compass, I'le suppose that every two Miners should raise no more than one Tun of Oar in a Week, (which they actually did when they worked downwards with Gad and Sledge, and raised the Oar without a Level, by the help of a Water-Engine.) These Men at this rate, and accounting but Forty working Weeks in the Year, will raise Forty Tun a Year, and then the Case stands thus: viz.

• 2 Miners will raise in a year 40 Tun of Oar
• 4 Miners—80 Tun
• 8 Miners—160 Tun
• 16 Miners—320 Tun
• 32 Miners—640 Tun
• 64 Miners—1280 Tun
• 128 Miners—2560 Tun
• 256 Miners—5120 Tun of Oar,
• 512 Miners—10240 and so on.

But I dare go no further, lest I should be thought by some Persons to be extra­vagant, as well as Mr. Waller.

I think you have gone far enough; for if you make but Five pounds Profit for every Tun of Oar one with another, according to the Abstract, the To­tal thereof by this Computation will a­mount to Fifty one thousand and two hundred pounds every year, which is a vast Profit to all the Adventurers. But, pray Sir, why can't any other Persons that are Propietors of Mines do the same thing as you propose to do, and then they'l raise as much Oar, and make as much Profit as you can?

If they have as many Veins in number, as large, as rich, as near the Sur­face, with as deep a Level at each end of the Hill, and as near the Sea as ours, and also as large a Stock as we have, they may raise as much Oar, and make as much Pro­fit: But I confess, I could never yet read or hear that any part of the Christian World hath such Veins as these, with all the Ad­vantages aforesaid; and if they want any of them, they will be at a loss; for some Veins are so small, that the Miners can't raise the Oar without cutting the firm sides a­long with it, and then perhaps two Miners can't raise a Tun of Oar in a Month or more, Other Veins are so troubled with Water, that three parts of four of the Time and Labour of the Workmen is [Page 69]spent in keeping the Water, and there­fore they can raise but little Oar. Others again have so shallow a Level, that they can't erect many Stages one above ano­ther, for any great number of Men to work upon. And some are so far from the Sea, that they can't possibly get Car­riage for any great quantities of Oar, and most private Persons want so great a Stock as is required to all manner of Charges in such Cases. On the other side, the Mine-Adventurers have all the Advantages that possibly can be desired; but I am not for carrying the thing to its highest value at first.

However, let us venture to double the Men once more for our own private Satisfaction, to see what the Profit will be then: Hold, let me consider, you will then employ One thousand twenty four Men; truly that's no such extraordi­nary number of Men in so many Veins, I know a single Vein, not above two Foot wide, which employs Six hundred Men; but these Men at the same rate will be able to raise Twenty thousand four hundred and eighty Tun of Oar in a year, and consequently the Profit at Five pounds per Tun will be One hundred and two thousand and four hundred pounds a year; I protest, I can't tell what can be [Page 70]said against this, nor why you may not double the Men again, and make as much more, supposing the Facts be true, that you have such large Veins.

I am not for terrifying one part of the World, or amusing the other with great Calculations; though I con­fess I can't see at present where the End of our Profit will be, with alarge Stock and a good Management, and therefore as I am not for raising the Mines to too high a value, so I am not for lessening the true value of them, and thereby discouraging the Partners, pro­vided they do not mistake, and expect that Profit presently which is only pro­posed in some years hereafter: And this Caution being carefully observed, I must then own, that as to the Matter of Fact, a great part thereof has not only been attested by many Persons of several Ranks and Qualities upon Occular view, but some Persons of Credit and Reputa­tion have made Affidavits thereof; and though we are not now capable of see­ing so much in the great Vein as in the old Partners time, by reason the Shafts since they left off working were fallen in, and the Works drowned with Wa­ter; yet we can still see so much at the Surface of the Ground, as gives very [Page 71]great Satisfaction to all those that are skill'd in Mineral Works, for they see plainly, that there are several Veins bear­ing Oar at the day near the Surface, betwixt firm and solid Sides. And whatever may have happened in other Counties, where they have generally Bellies of Oar, or where the Veins do lye betwixt Lime­stone, Sills, or Sides, or where the Sills do often change; yet I am fully satisfied by Information from the old Miners in that County of Cardigan, where all the Veins lye between Rag-stone-Sills, or Sides, without changing the Sills, that it was never known in all the old Silver Mines of Sir Hugh Middleton, the famous Mr. Bushell, and all the Patentees of Roy­al Mines, that any settled Vein (as these are) in the County of Cardigan, which did bear Oar at the Surface of the Ground, did ever fail or miscarry at the bottom of the deepest Level they ever made; but on the contrary, they were always ob­served to grow richer and better, as they were worked lower and deeper.

This is very satisfactory indeed. But there is a Report that some Persons have been down at the Mines, and could not see these Ribs of Oar.

I doubt, my Lord, this is but a Report, though, I confess, it is possi­ble [Page 72]such a thing may be; for if any Per­son, in his great Craft and Cunning, should go down to the Mines, and not apply to the Steward, he might come up to Town almost as ignorant as he went down.

Why? Are not the Mines near the Surface to be seen by any Man that goes upon the place?

No, my Lord, they lye in a Bogg, and the Water must be drawn off, with Tubs or Buckets, even in the shal­low Cross-Cuts or Shafts, before any Man can see the Ribs of Oar that lye so near the Surface of the Ground.

Then it is not unlikely but some Person or other has thus made a Mistake, and lost his Labour.

But, Sir, you have forgot to take notice, that the upper Level to the Bogg Vein is carried home, and that the Oar in the said Vein does set well, and wi­dens downward, so that we are past all doubts about that Vein, which I hope will be sufficient alone to repay us our Principal Money with Interest.

All this is set forth by the Committee in the printed Abstract of the State of the Mines, and it proves a very rich Vein. Nay, some very skilful Per­sons are of Opinion, that it will prove [Page 73]as rich as that we call the great Vein, be­cause it bears as good Oar near the Sur­face, and widens downwards, as well as that did; and I hope that single Vein will answer much more Profit than what you are pleased to mention.

Then the Question seems to be, not whether you shall gain or loose by this Undertaking? but how much you shall gain? For, that is all that is uncer­tain. Pray, Sir, how many Veins have you in all?

Eight, my Lord; Six of Lead, and two of Copper.

That is a great advantage to have so many Veins lye together, where one Level will serve to drain the Water from all or most of them. If you can employ but One hundred Men, and con­sequently raise Two thousand Tun of Oar in each Lead Vein, (one with ano­ther,) you will gain at that Rate about Sixty thousand pounds per Annum. But besides, the Committee gives a very good Account of one of the Copper Veins.

The Copper Veins are certain­ly settled Veins between firm Sides, and rich in Copper; but at what deepness they will gather to a Body of Oar, is yet uncertain; they have a promising Aspect, and are very large Veins, and in [Page 74]one of the Cross-drifts which takes most Ground upon it, we meet with rich Strings of green Copper Oar, which gives great hopes that that Vein will prove quick in that place, and bear a Bo­dy of good Oar.

On, my word, if that should so happen; That one Copper Vein may be worth all the Lead Veins, Copper being above One hundred pounds a Tun, and Lead not above Ten or Eleven pounds.

Here is great Expectations in­deed: But, pray Sir, how much Oar do you really believe you shall be able to raise the first year, after the Levels are carried home to the Veins?

Your Lordship may guess by what has been said already; but 'tis not possible yet to give any certain Account thereof, till the Works are set in order, and full Trials made of all the Veins.

But, Sir, as you have been free with us in other Matters, pray give us your present Thoughts of this also; for you can guess at the quantity better than we.

My Lord, I can but guess at it; for it may be the Workmen will not raise so much as I think they will, and it may be they will raise a great deal more.

Well, at a venture, Sir, let us hear.

My Lord, I hope they'l be able to raise at least One thousand Tuns the first year after the Levels are up, if not more; which may be done by Fifty Miners, or there abouts, at the Rate aforesaid.

Surely you may employ the first year more than Fifty Miners in all those Mines.

Truly, I think so, my Lord, a great many more; but I love to keep within compass, lest any Person should suffer by my Computation.

I must confess, I think you have made a very modest Calculation; and yet I fancy, if you double that quantity every year, for five years, you will raise a vast Sum. Pray, Sir, cast it up; you will do it in a moment.

I will, my Lord; Here it is done.

So that it appears that in Case we em­ploy but Fifty Miners the first year, yet in Five years after the Levels are carried home to the Veins, we are likely to raise One hundred fifty five thousand pounds, and thereby to repay every Adventurer his Principal Money adventured with Interest at Six pounds per Cent. to a very small matter.

But if you venture to double your Men once more, as I really think you easily may in so many Mines, then the Sixth year you will get One hundred and sixty thousand pounds, which added to the said Sum of One hundred and fif­ty five thousand pounds, makes Three hundred and fifteen thousand pounds, out of which deduct the said Sum of One hundred sixty two thousand and five hundred pounds, there remains a Divi­dend of One hundred fifty three thou­sand and five hundred pounds clear Pro­fit, after all the Money adventured is re­paid with Interest. What does your Lordship think of this? was there ever such an Undertaking as this in England before?

I protest the more I consider it, the more I am astonished at the thing, for I am not able to deny the force of the Argument, or rather Demonstration [Page 79]for it, and yet it still looks too big to be believed.

If I am in an Error, I can't help it; your Lordship commanded my pre­sent Thoughts, and here you have them; but as I said at first, I may be mistaken, something or other may happen to les­sen the value of these Mines, as for want of good management, or by reason of another War, or some other Accident, that I can't now think off; however, I have demonstrated the thing according to my poor Capacity. And now your Lordship may consider of these Calculati­ns, and see if you can find out any mate­rial Errors in them, and then your Lord­ship will act according to your better Judgment, without blaming your humble Servant for his good Intentions.

For my part, I can't tell how any Man in such Cases as this, can give any tollerable Judgment without the help of such Lights as these are, and therefore if a Man is resolved to be very safe, he may make very liberal Allowan­ces for incident Charges, and all manner of Accidents, and then he can hardly miscarry.

My Lord, that is my earnest desire, for I had rather the Mines should stand at any moderate Calculation below [Page 80]the real value, so as to make all Persons easie, then to have them advanced to too high a value.

You say well, Sir: But as to your former Calculation, I presume you don't expect that you shall be able to double the number of Work-Men every year to the end of your Lease?

No, my Lord, pray pardon me, I thought that Matter had been suf­ficiently explained before; there is no Mine in the World but must be limited in that respect, according to its largeness and the depth of the Level.

What number of Men have u­sually been employed in other Mines of Lead and Copper that were no larger than these?

Mr. Waller in his Essay gives your Lordship an Account, that in some small Veins not above two Foot thick, Six hundred Men have been employed, and in some others, not so large as these, Two thousand Men; in others Four thousand Men, and at Potozi above Twenty thousand Men.

What a vast number then may you (in time) set at work in all these Veins? Certainly you may employ seve­ral thousand Men.

Pray, my Lord, let us suppose that we can't employ more than is above set forth; for I fancy they will raise as much Oar as will be sufficient to an­swer all our Expectations.

I'le suppose what you please; but I see very plainly, that in time you will em­ploy a great number of Men more than you have mentioned: However, there is still one Objection left, That you will often meet with Twitches and Faults in your Mines, and then a great part of their Time will be employed in dead work, without raising any Oar.

My Lord, you observe very well; Twitches are as natural in Veins of Oar, as the Valvulae, or little folding Doors are in the Veins of a Man's Body; and the Veins of Oar are better with them, than without them, for they pre­serve the Mineral Feeder, and thereby en­rich the Oar; and I am very willing your Lordship shall make what Allowances you please for these Obstructions, with­out giving any further Answer.

Nay, Sir, pray let us hear all that can be said on both sides.

If your Lordship will promise that no ill use shall be made of it, I will declare what I think of this Objection.

I'le promise you, Sir, it shall not.

Then, my Lord, I must con­fess I have made liberal Allowances for all these Accidents already; for when your Lordship considers that a Tun of Oar lyes in the compass of two Foot square, or thereabouts, and that two Men in blasting upwards with Gun-powder, will raise more Oar than six Men in work­ing downwards with Gad and Sledge, your Lordship will not think it impro­bable for two Men in one of these large Veins, to raise a Tun of Oar in a day, whereas I have supposed that they will raise but one Tun of Oar in a Week.

If a Tun of Oar lyes in so lit­tle a compass, and your Works are once brought into such an Order, that you can work upwards from the Level, certain­ly one Blast of Gun-powder will bring down more than a Tun of Oar.

It will either bring it down, or so crack the Load of Oar, that with Iron Bars two Men will presently pull down a Tun of Oar.

And then, I presume, the Mi­ners can make a Blast in a Night and a Day, that is, in Twenty four hours.

Yes, my Lord, in five or six hours, if no extraordinary Accidents hap­pen to delay them.

Hey day; Why, at this rate you will raise more Oar in one Year then you can Smelt in two or three?

So some Persons think, my Lord: But I doubt not but we shall be able from time to time to build Furnaces sufficient to answer our Occasions.

But stay, Sir, if you can raise Oar at this rate, I doubt your Mines will hardly hold out to the end of your Term.

My Lord, a great Heap of Oar above Ground lyes in a little room be­low. The Steward, who has experien­ced how much Oar he has raised in a Yard square, has computed at his high­est Valuation, that the Mines can't be ex­hausted during our Term to the deepness of our Level; which your Lordship will the easier believe, when you consider that the Mine of Chermnitz in Hungary has lasted Nine hundred and fifty years, and that the Mine of Potozi, not above Six foot wide in any place, has lasted from the Year 1546. which is about One hun­dred fifty three years, with Twenty thou­sand Men at work. And Zenophon upon the Silver Mines of Athens, tells us, ‘That [Page 84]as they dug on, they still discovered fresh Veins; and though their Mines had been wrought for many Ages with great num­bers of Hands, yet they continued still so far from being drained or exhausted, that they could discover no visible difference in their then present state of the Mines from the Account their Ancestors had de­livered down to them; and when they had most Labourers at work at the Mines, they found they had still Business for more Hands then were employed.’ And Mr. Waller acquaints us, ‘That all great Veins of this kind are in some respects like a great large spreading Oak, and hath a great number of Branches, which like Boughs of a Tree, shoot forth from the Body of the Vein, insomuch that after a considerable Sum of Money shall be gained out of the same, and many Years spent in the working thereof, there will be still discovered fresh Veins shooting forth from the sides thereof, which are innumerable, and scarce ever to be ex­hausted.’

But let us suppose however, that the Mines may be worked out to the bottom or sole of the Level, what will you do then?

My Lord, we must then place a Water-Engine with a Wheel in the great Level, and turn the Water-course that runs through the Bogg in Troughs, down one of the Shafts upon the Wheel, and so by that means drawing off the Water from the Mines, we shall raise the Oar Forty yards deeper than the Level; or else we may use Captain Savory's Fire-En­gine for that purpose, which we find best.

Now you say something; then indeed if you can raise Oar so much deep­er than the Level, I believe there will be no want of Oar; for Forty yards in Oar for Twelve hundred yards in length in so many Veins, will be a vast Addition: Pray Sir, cast it up in the great Vein.

I will, my Lord. Let me consider; If a solid of two foot square in Oar will yield one Tun, how many Tuns will a Vein Twelve hundred yards in length, Two yards in breadth, and Forty yards in depth yield? Answer, Three hundred twenty four thousand Tun; which being valued at Five pounds per Tun, amounts to One million six hundred and twen­ty thousand pounds: Is not this a fair Profit from the Oar below the Levels? But I will abate One hundred and twenty thousand pounds for Twitches and Faults [Page 86]in the Vein, though there is not usually so many at that deepness as near the Surface; and I have supposed the Vein but Six foot wide, though we have had it alrea­dy Seven foot six inches, and in all probability will be much broader at that deepness.

If you can raise so much be­low, what vast quantities may be raised above the Levels? which in some places is Sixty four yards deep from the Sur­face.

Nay, but if one Vein will yield so much, what will all the Veins yield?

I hope they will yield suffici­ent to satisfie your Lordship, that the Veins will not be exhausted during the present Lease.

I think you have given us a very plain demonstration of that; but what will you do when your Term is expired?

Pray, my Lord, let us make the most of what we have, I am not much concerned to look so far before me; if I can have such a profitable Bargain for One and twenty years, I do not care who has it after me.

But I love to look as far as I can, that my Posterity may see, that I had some respect for them as well as for my self; therefore I shall be glad to hear what is likely to be the Issue of this Busi­ness.

I'le acquaint your Lordship what I suppose will be the Issue of it. As soon as our Works are brought to perfection, and we are reimbursed our Principal Money adventured; or that we are all encouraged with the Success of this, and satisfied that we stand upon sure ground, we shall take care either to renew our present Lease, or take other Mines at a reasonable Duty; or we shall do both, as we see best.

Then you don't intend to give over the Mining Trade at the end of the Term.

Over! No, my Lord, I hope the Company of the Mine-Adventurers will florish to the end of the World.

If this Undertaking be once brought to perfection, I can't see any reason to imagine but that the Partners will venture on in the same way, especial­ly after so great Encouragement.

Truly, it is not unlikely but they may: But, pray Sir, are they who have only Blank Tickets Members of the [Page 88]Company, as well as they who have Shares.

No, my Lord, the Company consists of such Persons who have Shares, and they who have Blanks are only Cre­ditors of the Mines, but have no Vote in Elections, or Interest in the Capital Stock.

Pray, Sir, whether would you advise a Friend to buy Blanks or Shares.

My Lord, if I knew the Tem­per of the Person, and the Ability of his Purse, I could tell better how to advise him.

Suppose the Case as you please.

Why then, my Lord, I would not have a diffident distrustful Person, or a Person exceeding timerous in his Nature; buy either Blanks or Shares for one Year or two.

Why so; here is less hazard, and more profit than in most Adventures at Sea.

But such a Person will not give us time to bring the Mines to perfe­ction; as soon as the Levels are carried home, then he will expect that we raise Mountains of Oar presently, before there is room for any great number of Men to stand to work.

But supposing you meet with a Man of Courage and Patience, how would you advise him?

If he be a Man of small Sub­stance, that lives upon the Interest of his Money, I advise him to buy Blanks, be­cause they are a present Profit; but if he be Rich, and can stay for his Money, he may buy Shares, which will bring in a plentiful Return in due time.

Pray, Sir, How comes it to pass that Blanks do now sell under the value of Five pounds per Ticket.

I cannot imagine any reason for it; there can be no doubt but they will be once (and in all probability seve­ral times) paid off, and in the mean time the Interest thereof at Six pounds per Cent. will be punctually paid.

Will it so? Then there is no doubt but they will quickly advance to parr, and for ought I now, sell at Five pounds ten shillings, or Six pounds a Ticket.

They will certainly advance when the Levels are carried home, what­ever they do at present: But this Under­taking is yet in its Infancy, and not at all understood.

So much the better for you that have Money: But, pray Sir, where­in lyes the Advantage of the Shares?

The Shares (as soon as the Blanks are once paid off) will have a considerable dividend, and be advancing every Year towards the highest valuation of Forty pounds per Share, which is a prodigious Profit above the Rate they were first sold, as I have already demon­strated, and in the mean time the Pro­prietors thereof have the management of the Mines; are entituled to a Capital Stock of Twenty thousand pounds at the end of the Term, and to all Advan­tages which shall be procured in the mean time, in the Reversion of these, or in the Purchase of any other Mines, free from the Incumbrances of Blank Tickets, or any other Payments, and when it's consider­ed what Improvements have been made already in so short a time in Smelting and Refining, and what may be made before this Term will be expired, I don't know but a Share in this Company, may by that time be advanced to as high a degree (in proportion) as the New-River-Wa­ter was, which I think did advance from One hundred pounds a share to Three thousand pounds or more, where it now continues.

Suppose it should; what will a Share of these Mines (sold at Twenty pounds in the beginning of this Under­taking) be then valued at?

At Six hundred pounds per share.

That would be a prodigious thing indeed; but, do you really think that the Company will continue this Trade to profit after the present Lease shall be expired.

I leave that to your Lordships Judgment upon what has been said; I would willingly know what can hinder them? Have not they a liberty to re­new this Lease and Purchase other Mines, and lay them open in a rea­diness to make continual Works af­ter this Lease is expired? Have not they the best Artists of all sorts to assist them in farther Discoveries and Emprovements? What is the great Difficulty in Cases of this Nature, but to raise a large Stock? and to have a good Constitution? Mines are not so much wanting in this Kingdom as Money and Management; Private Persons are generally ruined by such Un­dertakings, which are too big for them, and a private Person will get more by a moderate Part or Duty of a Mine clear of all Charges under the Management of so great a Company, than by managing [Page 92]the whole himself, with his own private Stock and Interest, so that (in short) they will not only have at the end of this Term a Noble Stock of Twenty thousand pounds in ready Money, but also other rich Mines in readiness for raising Oar, and for immediate profit; and when the Proprietors of the Shares shall have all the Profit thereof to themselves free from the Incumbrance of the Blanks, as afore­said, what a great Income will they have?

Pray, good Sir, have a care you don't raise Envy instead of Pity, you'l have some Persons who before cried this Undertaking down for a Cheat, come and whisper about that this is too great a thing for a Subject.

That's likely enough, for they act upon the same Principle still; but if it be too great for one, I hope it is not too great for Eight hundred Subjects.

How! Eight hundred Partners, that is a great Number indeed; if you get One hundred and sixty thousand pounds a year, that is but Two hundred pounds per Annum one with another, which is very inconsiderable.

'Tis so indeed, but pray, my Lord, if we venture our Money in a Mine, why should not we have as much [Page 93]favour as the Merchants that venture at Sea; they are not envied if they get One hundred thousand pounds a Man.

The Merchants bring in great profit to the Nation, in the Customs to the King, and in employing the Poor.

Nay, my Lord, we must beg leave to say, that no Company can bring in so much real substantial Profit to this Nation as the Mine-Adventurers; for all that is dug out of the Earth is an Additi­on to the Stock of the Nation; and then none will Employ so many Poor as we shall.

Certainly, if any Company ever de­served to be Encouraged this does, where so much Good is designed, as well to the Publick as to the Poor.

Methinks the way to judge of the Advantage of this Undertaking, is to Examine what the King did make of Royal Mines before the late Act concerning them.

I doubt your Lordship will not be able to make any Judgment by that, for 'tis plain he made very little, if any at all; they were granted away from the Crown to Patentees, under a small Duty to the King, which was seldom paid, and they never could agree to raise any great Stock, and being opposed by all the Pro­prietors of the Lands where the Mines [Page 94]lay in every County, they could not make any considerable matter of them.

Then the Nation was in effect deprived of the Advantages of all the best Mines, till the said Act was pass'd in favour of the Subject.

They were so; and what a vast loss hath that been to this Nation?

A vast loss indeed; but per­haps the particular Profit to the King (though small) might be greater before the Act, then since.

No, my Lord; I do really think that his Majesty will in a few years, when these Works are brought to perfe­ction, gain more by the very Customs of Lead since this Act, then his Majesty and all his Royal Predecessors from the Con­quest did from Royal Mines themselves before.

Nay then, if the King and his People are all Gainers by this Act, it was certainly a very happy Law for the Na­tion.

It was so; and I think it's plain that every Law that Enriches the People, enriches the King, since his Wealth must arise from theirs.

'Tis very true; and this very thing proves what an inseparable Union there is betwixt the Interest of the King [Page 95]and his People; for whilst their Interest in the Case of Royal Mines was divided, neither King nor People could get any thing by them; but now their Interest by this Law is united, both will be great Gainers.

But, my Lord, there is one thing more to be considered in this Case, that may prove of vast Consequence to his Majesty and his Royal Succes­sors.

What is that, Sir? I shall be glad to hear such good News.

This gracious Act of Royal Mines has quite altered the Scene of the Mineral World; for before, every Man that had an Estate or Interest in his Coun­try, endeavoured to conceal their Mines, but now they all labour to find them out, and therefore it is not unlikely but some­time or other, one of those conceal'd Mines, or some other, may be sound out, and prove so rich in Silver, as may be worth his Majesty's acceptance at the price propo­sed in the late Act concerning Royal Mines, and one such Vein would be an inestima­ble Treasure to his Majesty, and his Royal Successors.

It would so: And the way to promote such a Discovery, is to Encourage those that Unite together in a Joint [Page 96]Stock for the working of Mines: But, pray Sir, why did the People of England so very much oppose the Patentees, and en­deavour to conceal their Mines.

Because the Proprietors thereof were to have no advantage by them, nor the least share of the Profit; but on the contrary, their Lands were torn up to the very Bowels, and covered with Heaps of Rubbish, and High-ways were made over their Corn and Pasture Land, without paying any Consideration for the same, to the great Grievance and Oppression of the Subject.

I live in a Level Country where no Mines are, and never saw any of these hardships committed on the Subject; but it is no wonder the Patentees of Royal Mines could make no great Profit, when it was the Interest of all the Country to oppose them.

Nay, they did not only op­pose them in general, but the Miners and the Country People did make them pay sawce for every particular thing: I be­lieve we carry on our Works for a third part of the Charge that it cost the Paten­tees.

How! that's a vast Advantage indeed; Then it should seem that the People are not averse to the Thing, but to the Persons.

My Lord, I don't apprehend that they were averse to the working of Mines, nor to the Persons of the Patentees; but to the least intrusion into their Pro­perties, and to the damnifying their E­states by any Person or Persons whatso­ever, the People of England were always averse, and I believe ever will be.

Truly I can't blame them; but what do you do to oblige them more than the Patentees.

There is a great deal of diffe­rence betwixt their Proceedings and ours, for they came without asking leave, by a great Power and Authority, and without paying any Consideration for the Tres­pass done to their Estates: But we are called in by Consent and in Aid of the Proprietor; paying a valuable Conside­ration for what we have. In short, we come in as Friends, and they were esteem­ed as Enemies.

That is a great difference in­deed: But by their calling you into their Assistance, I perceive the Proprietors don't care to work their own Mines without Partners.

My Lord, there is no working Lead-Mines or Copper-Mines without a large Stock; and it's generally observed that two or three Sets of Adventurers are [Page 98]either ruined or totally discouraged be­fore the Mines can be set in order, and bring in Profit, as it happened in the Case of these very Mines. There were two Setts of Undertakers disappointed be­fore this Company was Established, not­withstanding the Oar appeared at the day near the Surface of the Ground, and two or three small Stocks, to the value of Six or Seven thousand pounds, were raised and spent in carrying up the Levels, erect­ing Smelting-Houses, and in other dead Charges, without the least return of clear Profit, which has so opened the Eyes of the private Proprietors of Mines, that they will not venture on them now without a good back to support them.

They do very wisely; and therefore its plain that Mines can never be wrought effectually for the Publick Good of this Kingdom, but by Compa­nies of Men; for few or no private Gen­tlemen, though of great Estates in Land, are able to raise so great a Stock as is re­quired in these Cases.

Your Lordship is certainly in the right of it; and therefore I conceive (with submission) that it is for the Inter­est of this Nation that such Companies be Encouraged, for thereby his Majesty will not only make a certain profit in his [Page 99]Customs, but be in hopes of a rich discove­ry, every private Subject will make a secure Profit by his Mines, and a considerable Ad­dition will every Year be made to the Gene­ral Stock of the Nation. And what is u­sually said of the Treasure of the King, may be truly said also of the Treasure of the People, that it is Vinculum Pacis & Bellorum Nervi.

I look upon Wool, Corn, and the Mines of England to be our Staple Commodities, whereby the People of England may with good management be­come Gainers in the Ballance of Trade, and therefore all Companies that make Improvements at home, and promote the vent of these Commodities abroad, do most certainly deserve all Encouragement imaginable.

A late Learned Author in an Essay upon the probable Methods of ma­king a People Gainers in the Ballance of Trade, published about a year since, ex­presses the very same Opinion: I have the Book here, if your Lordship please, I'le read the very words, for I think they are not unworthy to be taken notice of.

Pray Sir, do so.

In his Introduction these are the words, viz.

The Land is to yield the Product, which [Page 100]Product is to yield the Wealth, so that we should enquire how this product stands in e­very Particular, but more especially in the principal constituent Parts of England's Strength, namely Wool, Corn, and our Mines, for 'tis by the well ordering and wise dispo­sition of these Branches of our Wealth, that we are to be Gainers in the Ballance of Trade. And in Page 94. after he has treated of the Land of England, and the Product thereof, of several kinds, he goes on in these very words, viz.

Our Mines are the Product of the Earth, and undoubtedly capable of great Improve­ments; we ought to respect them as the Pa­rents of our Trade, and which made us known to the first Merchants of the World, the Phoenicians. We have Tinn, Lead, Copper, Calamy, Iron, Coal, Culm, Allom, Copperas, with other sorts of Minerals; and what is in this manner dug out of the Earth, can't be a less Article then about Seven or Eight hundred thousand pounds per Annum in the whole Rental of the Kingdom.

They who work these Mines, and deal in Minerals, know best what Laws and Consti­tutions they want to make their Business more easie at home, and to give their Com­modities a free vent abroad; but if they need any help from the Legislative Power, most certainly they ought to have it, since [Page 101]their Stock and Labour turn so much to the Common Good, for whatever their Product yields in Foreign Markets, is clear National Profit.

There are lately published some extraordi­nary Accounts of the Mines in Cardigan­shire, where 'tis said there are Eight large Veins of Silver, Lead, and Copper Oar, ly­ing near together in one Mountain, nigh a Navigable River and a good Port.Mine-Adven­ture and Ex­pedient, p. 7.'Tis alledg'd that these Mines with a large Stock, in a few years, may be advanced to a clear Profit of One hundred and seventy thou­sand pounds per Annum. This Computation does not seem at all extravagant to those who have look'd into the Accounts of what Mines produce in other Countries, provided the Oar be good, the Veins like to last, (and large ones seldom fail) and provided there be no invincible Impediment from Nature to their working; they have stood still several Years for want of a good Agreement among the Adventurers.

'Tis said Sir H. M. has put them in a way of being wrought; but if his Expectient should not succeed, and if new Differences should arise, the Legislative Authority, may very well and justly interpose, even to com­pel the Partners to some Agreement, whereby the Work may be carried on; [...] ju­stice [Page 102]due to the Publick, at no time to suf­fer a few Stock-jobbing Citizens to stand in the way of any National Advantage, the Fraud and Corruption of which sort of Men have hurt England in more than one parti­cular.

If these Mines come but any thing near the value Mr. William Waller has put upon them, and with reasons very probable, they are a fit object of the States care; and upon inspection into their true worth, if private Purses can't raise a Stock sufficient to set them going, it were better done upon some publick Fund, to be repaid out of the Pro­fits, than to loose what is represented as so immense a Treasure. But should it prove less, 'tis not to be neglected, for Nations (like private Men) who will thrive, must look into small things as well as great; and for this we have the Examples of France and Holland, whose Ministers examine into the minutest Matters, where the Publick may possibly reap any Advantage; and 'tis a ve­ry commendable piece of Wisdom, were it but for this single reason, that to do so con­stantly, begets a habit of Care and Diligence in things of higher importance.

Thus (my Lord) you see what this ingenious Gentleman says, who hath made it his Business to enquire into Mat­ters [Page 103]of this Nature; he does not think the highest Valuation of these Mines ex­travagant, provided the Oar be good, the Veins like to last, and there be no invin­cible Impediment from Nature to their working; but it's proved before, that the Oar is good, and that there is no rea­son to fear its lasting, and that the Le­vels being carried home, and thereby the Water carried off, there can be no Impe­diment from Nature to their working.

And then he is so sensible of the great Advantages that may accrew thereby to the Nation, that rather than so immense a Treasure should be lost, he seems to think it reasonable that the Parliament should lend the Partners a Stock to carry it on, to be repaid out of the Profits; but since by the Aid of many new Ad­venturers they have at last, with great difficulties, raised a sufficient Stock them­selves, and are willing to run all the ha­zard of so great an Undertaking for the publick Good of the Kingdom, as well as for their own particular and private Advantage, it can never be doubted, but that his most gracious Majesty, and all our Noble Senators and Patriots of their Country, will be ready to give this Un­dertaking all the Encouragement that it is capable of.

There is not the least doubt to be made of it; for his Majesty is alrea­dy very sensible of the great Advantages to the Publick by such Undertakings, as may appear by several Patents granted by his Majesty for the Encouragement there­of; in one of which a particular Friend of mine is concerned, and I remember the beginning of it is in these words: viz.

Your Lordship has an excellent memory; I am glad to find that such Undertakings have been already counten­anced and encouraged. But I think this Company has not been very success­ful.

No, Sir; They obtained the favour of a Charter, but could not agree to raise a Stock, or Purchase any Mines.

Those two main Points should have been first settled, and the Under­taking carried on and fully tried upon a private Agreement under Hand and Seal, before they had proceeded farther.

It should so. Pray Sir, what Method have you observed in this Case?

We first purchased a rich Mine, and then agreed under Hand and Seal to a Constitution for the Manage­ment thereof, which is composed of all the best Charters and Constitutions of Companies about Town.

And you are all effectually bound in Law to the Observation of that Constitution?

Yes, my Lord, we are so.

Pray Sir, let me hear how you are governed.

We are govern'd by a General Meeting, a Grand Committee, and a Select Committee.

Who has Votes in each of these Meetings?

All the Partners who have three Shares have a Vote in a General Meeting, and all who have ten Shares in a Grand Committee, and the Select Committee is elected every Year at a General Meeting, out of those Partners who have Twenty Shares.

In whom does the Active ma­naging Part lye?

In the Select Committee.

Then you will do well to take care that they be not only honest Gentlemen, but Men of Temper and Conduct, fit for Business, and such as have a considerable Interest in the Mines. But what is the Power of the Grand Committee?

The Grand Committee was in­tended to ease the General Meeting of any trouble, unless upon extraordinary Occa­sions: But now the General Meeting, having agreed to meet every second Thursday in May and November, there will be little or no Business for the Grand Committee.

But, pray Sir, what care is ta­ken in your Elections to avoid Animosi­ties and Heats?

We Elect by Balletting, where­by the Votes of all the Partners are deli­vered in a Skrowl of Paper, and a Scru­tiny being made, the Committee is decla­red by majority of Voices, without know­ing how any Person gave his Vote.

That is certainly the best way; for there are many honest Gentlemen that will be disobliged, if their Friends Vote against them, though they are not quali­fied for doing the Company so much Ser­vice as others in a Business of this Na­ture; and all the Partners are to respect the Publick Good in these Cases, and not any Private Friendship.

The Publick Good is their own Good in this Case; and he must be a very weak Man indeed that will act a­gainst himself.

But, I don't find there is any care taken for the Security of those that live in the Country, who can't conveni­ently attend at these Elections in Lon­don.

Yes, there is my Lord; for they may send up a Letter of Attorney to A. B. and in his absence to C. D. and in both their absence to E. F. to Vote for them as a Proxy, and also impower any one of them to receive their Interest or Dividend; which Letter of Attorney, [Page 109]being delivered into the Office, may stand for as many years as they please, till they think fit to alter it; but they must name none to Vote for them, but some of the present Partners who have three Shares.

All this is very well provided: But has every Partner as many Votes as he has three Shares? Then the Mines in time may come into the management of a few rich Persons that shall engross all to them­selves.

No, my Lord, Sir H.M. who had by the old Constitution the majori­ty of Shares in himself at every Gene­ral Meeting, and consequently the ma­jority of Votes, has now for the good of the Company reduced himself, and all others, to one Vote only, though they have ever so many Shares.

That was very well done, and is the Method that is found most Secure, and gives greatest Satisfaction, the same being also observed in the Bank of Eng­land, and the New East-India Company: But may any of the Select Committee Vote by Proxy too?

No, my Lord, there is too great a Trust reposed in them to be depu­ted to any others; all the Treasure of the Company is in their keeping, and under their management, and no Personal Trust [Page 110]can be transferred to a Proxy or De­puty.

That is very true; you ought indeed to be very careful of your Trea­sure, that it be not wasted or imbezel'd. Pray Sir, how do you keep your Stock, does it lye dead by you in a Chest?

No, my Lord, we keep it in Bank sealed Bills, at Three pounds per Cent. Interest in the Bank of England; according to the Directions of our Set­tlements.

And how do you Secure your Bank Bills?

In a strong Iron Chest, with Seven several Locks and Keys, to be kept by Seven several Members of the Com­mittee.

And when you take out any Bank sealed Bills, to whom are they de­livered?

To the Cash-keeper, who has given good Security for the faithful dis­charge of his Office; and he applies and pays the same according to the Order of the Committee.

Very well. But, pray Sir. how many of the Select Committee make a Quorum?

Five besides the Chair-man?

May any five of them, with the Chair-man, dispose of all the Treasure of the whole Company?

No, my Lord, this Matter stands thus: If the value be above Five thousand pounds, the Order, Bargain, or Agreement must be made and signed in Writing, under the Hands of Seven of the Committee, and if above the value of Ten thousand pounds, or be to continue above a Year, then it is to be confirmed by the Grand Committee or General Meeting.

That is very cautiously and prudently provided: Now indeed I see that you have a very good Constitution for the management of the Mines.

There is this farther to be ob­served, That all Material Bargains, Con­tracts and Agreements relating to the said Mines, are to be signed by those Mem­bers of the Committee that make them, that in case of any mismanagement, it may not be trusted to an Entry by the Book-keeper only, as is usual; but it may also appear under their own Hands, who were the Authours of it.

Nothing can be more fair or bet­ter contrived: But, pray Sir, what do you allow your Committee for all this trou­ble?

They have Twenty shillings a­mongst them at every Meeting, and no more.

No! that is very little indeed; in other Companies they have Twenty shillings, or more, apiece; but this is not Two shillings each, if they all appear.

My Lord, they are Men of considerable Estates, and don't value those little Returns; neither was this design­ed, but for a small Refreshment, or the like.

What did you allow Sir H.M. and Mr. Player for their several Journeys to Wales, and taking all that pains for you?

Not a farthing.

How! that was a little hard, was it not?

My Lord, this is the way to preserve our Stock till the Mines bring in greater Profit, and then we may be more generous.

I see you have some Publick spirited Men amongst you, and that is a good sign of bringing your Undertaking to the Effect proposed. But to return to [Page 113]your Constitution; I have indeed seen your Transfer Books, but I forgot to ask what Fee must be paid for every Transfer.

Each Party pays a Shilling be­sides the Stamp; that's all.

That is a very cheap Convey­ance, to pass an Interest of several Thou­sand pounds value for a Shilling: But can they convey their Interest away to each other by no other Conveyance, but by a Transfer and Acceptance in those Books in the Office.

No, My Lord, for all the Part­ners concerned in the Mine-Adventure, are either such who executed the Grand Settlement, by which our Constitution was established, or such as we call New-Adventurers, who came in as Assignees under that Settlement, and have also under their Hands in Stamp-Paper submit­ted to be governed by that Constitution, which does expresly declare, That no Person before such Transfer and Accep­tance made and entred, shall have any Vote in all or any of the said Meetings or Committees, or any Share or Dividend of the Profits of the said Mines.

Then it is very clear that they must comply with their own Constituti­on: But are their Tickets of no force or [Page 114]value now? because it is writ upon them, This Ticket entitles the Bearer to Five pounds out of the Profits of the Mines, &c.

There was not room to write more upon the Tickets, but it was supposed that every Person would read the Settlement of the Mine-Adventure, which shews that those Tickets did enti­tle the Bearer to so much, according to the Limitations in the said Settlement, that is, until the Drawing was over; and Registers made, and signed by the Ma­nagers; together with the said Transfer Books; but afterwards there is not the least regard to be had to these Tickets, only that by them any Person may ob­serve whether he has had Justice done him by the Accomptant to the Company, that is, whether his Interest in the Mines be truly stated and entred in the said Re­gisters.

But what shall the Partners have to lye by them in case of Mortality, to shew that they have such an Interest in the said Mines.

As much as any Person has in the like case in the Bank of England; he may have a Certificate or Copy of the Transfer from the Office, where it is regi­stred, which is sufficient.

Very well, I am satisfied; for he has a Certificate or Copy of the Transfer, and the Security of two Regi­sters, besides several Journals and Leidgers and their Duplicates, to prove his Title; But, pray Sir, what is the manner of Summoning a General Meeting?

A General Meeting must be summoned by hanging up a Publick No­tice thereof in writing on the first Pillar on the right hand near the South-gate of Entrance into the Royal Exchange, and at the usual place of Meeting, a Month before the time appointed. This is all that is required by the Settlement: But there is generally further Notice given in the News Papers; but now every Person may take notice of Course that they have agreed to meet every second Thursday in May and November.

How many Members make a Quorum in a General Meeting?

As many as will make up (a­mongst them) One thousand Shares; but any lesser Number may meet pursuant to notice, and adjourn.

I think this is well ordered, for that is such a Number as may probably meet together to do Business, and is also sufficient to prevent any Surprize upon the Company: But suppose a Person that [Page 116]has a great number of Shares should di­vide them into several Hands, on purpose to make a majority of Votes; such a de­sign may be of ill consequence, and I don't see how you can prevent it?

For this Reason every Partner is obliged, if required by the Chair-man, or any six of the Partners, to make a vo­luntary Affidavit before a Master in Chan­cery, that he hath three Shares in a Gene­ral Meeting, and ten Shares in a Grand Committee, and twenty Shares in a Select Committee, in his own Right, and not in Trust for any other Person, or else he is to have no Vote.

That is excellently well con­trived indeed; but how is the Grand Committee summoned?

The Grand Committee are to meet every second Wednesday in June of Course, and at other Times by such Sum­mons from the Select Committee, Ten days before the Time appointed, as is directed for a General Meeting as afore­said: But I conceive that there will be little Business left for them to do, the General Meeting being now appointed to be held Twice a year, as aforesaid.

I can't see that there is any thing wanting to make you a happy Company, and to preserve Peace and U­nity amongst you.

I hope there is not; For if any difference arises, there is a Provision made for that too.

In Westminster-Hall you mean.

No, my Lord, all the Partners are bound by this Settlement, to choose Arbitrators; and if they can't agree, the Arbitrators are to choose an Um­pire; and if he neglects or refuses to determine the Difference, it is hum­bly referred to the Lord Mayor of London, if no Partner, or else to the Lord Chancellor for the time being, to be de­termined in a Summary way without Pro­cess of Law.

You have more care taken of you, for ought I can understand, than all the Companies in Town: Certainly it was no Lawyer that drew such a peace­able Constitution?

My Lord, there is good and bad of all Professions, Ranks, and Qua­lities of Men whatsoever; the Gentleman that drew this, I believe, does not pre­tend to any Merit or Experience in these Affairs: But this I may observe of him, that 'tis not likely he would have taken so much pains about a Constitution and Method of Management, if he had not at that time entertain'd a very good Opi­nion of the Mines.

Truly, what you say is another very great Argument of the Sincerity of the Underaker. But, pray Sir, how are the Mines managed in the Country?

By a Grove Steward, and a Pay Steward.

What is the Office of a Grove Steward?

The Grove Steward is the Steward of the Mines, and is to govern and direct the Miners and Workmen, set them Bargains, take care that the Mines are regularly worked, and effectually car­ried on, to the best advantage; to see the Our weigh'd out to the Cartiers, and to grant Warrants to the Pay-Steward for the Payment of the Mines, according to their respective Bargains.

What is the manner or way of setting Bargains; is it done in publick or private?

In publick. As for instance; when the Steward of the Mines has a Bar­gain to set out, he comes into the Field, and there openly and publickly proclaims and proposes to the Miners the taking of such a Bargain, and he or they that comes to the lowest Rate have the Bargain grant­ed to them.

This is extraordinary fair; for then the Rate of all Bargains are known to a hundred Persons, or more: But do you never employ any Man at days wa­ges?

Seldom or never; it's better set any Bargain then employ Men under ground at Day-wages.

You had need then to have a very skilful Steward in so great a work, or else a Thousand pounds a year may be quick­ly lost for want of setting good Bar­gains.

It may so; we have had an Instance of that in the Old Partners time, where Mr. Waller set a Bargain at Thirty shillings a Fathom, and afterwards, ano­ther Person being employed (on a Trial) in Mr. Waller's Place, what do you think he paid a Fathom in the same Drift? with a new Set of famous Miners not to be parallel'd in the whole Kingdom?

I can't tell, it may be Three pounds a Fathom.

Be pleased to guess again; it is almost incredible.

Six or Seven pounds a Fa­thom.

Above Ten pounds a Fathom; it appears by the Accounts of their Work.

'Tis no wonder then that some Men are ruined, and others get Estates by the same Mines: but how does Mr. Waller do to set a good Bargain in a new Work?

He is a Man of great Experi­ence, and can give a very great guess at all sorts of Work; but however, he does not trust to that, but he takes a lusty wil­ling Fellow, and sets him on for a day, and stays by him, and comforts him with a Pipe of Tobacco, and a Dram of the Bottle, and by this days Labor he can calculate what that Work is worth, and so sets the Bargain accordingly.

That is a very good way; but is he not over-reach'd sometimes in his Bargains?

Yes, he is, he can't be infalli­ble under ground; but yet for one Bar­gain the Miners get an advantage over him, he gets the better of them in Ten; and we are forced to consider them in some cases, when they work very hard, and are not able to make their Wages, nor scarce get Subsistance.

Most Men, when they take a Bargain, work so hard for themselves, that they expect to get double Wages; and it is hard if he will not let them get single Wages.

My Lord, as he is saving for the Partners, so he endeavours to do right to the poor Miners, for he sets them Bar­gains for a short time; and if they are too hard upon the Miners, he advances in the next Bargain; but if too easie, he makes them abate; so that in the main he contrives that they shall get good Wages, but they shall be sure to work hard for it.

That's very well done: But do the Miners never combine against him to raise a Bargain?

Never of late; they did once Rebel against him; but being a Man of good Courage and Conduct, he broke the Confederacy, cashier'd the Leaders, and has been an absolute Commander ever since; the Miners both love him and fear him.

That's the way to govern such sort of People. Well, I see you are ve­ry happy in a good Steward; but what will you do if he should die?

There is another Gentleman in the World that understands a little of this matter, and is deeply concerned to look after it: However, there is care taken to breed up skilful Men to succeed him.

That is very prudently done: But how often do you make a pay?

We pay Subsistance Money e­very Week, and make a clear Pay every six Weeks.

Very well: And what is the Office of the Pay Steward?

The Pay Steward is our Ca­shier, receives all the Money sent down for the use of the Mines, and pays the Miners their Wages according to their Bargains, keeps all the Accounts in good order, of Wast-Book, Journal and Led­ger, and produces the Warrants from Mr. Waller as Vouchers for every Pay­ment; he also looks after our Stores, as Coal, Iron, Timber, &c. and gives an exact account thereof, and takes care of the carriage of our Oar to the Water side; and for the faithful discharge of his Trust he has also given us good Security.

Certainly nothing in the World can be better managed. But what Sala­ries do you give these Officers?

I have given an Account of Mr. Waller's Salary before; and as to the Pay Steward, he has no more than Fifty pounds per Annum for him and his Assistant.

That is very moderate; but how is the Smelting and Refining man­aged?

Our Smelting and Refining is all done with Pit-coal, which is much cheaper than Wood or Charcoal.

Have you Coal in that Coun­try?

No, my Lord, the nearest place is Neath or Swanzey in Glamorg an­shire; and therefore it was contrived, to save charges in Freight, that the same Vessels which bring Coal to Oar to be smelted in Cardiganshire, shall carry back Oar to Coal to be smelted at Neath; and this is established by the Settlement of the Mine-Adventure.

That was well contrived; but whether is it more advantagious to Sir H. M. to have the Oar smelted at Neath, or in Cardiganshire?

I suppose 'tis indifferent to him; but only in one respect, it would be more advantagious for him to have all the Oar smelted in Cardiganshire, then at Neath; for the Partners being obliged to take his Coal at the Market price, he can car­ry it much cheaper to the Water-side, to be shipt off for Cardiganshire, then to the Silver Mills at Neath; but yet at present we Smelt and Refine all at Neath, though to his loss.

How so? Then you prejudice your Friend, and have no use for your Coal in Cardiganshire.

We having no Smelting or Re­fining Houses in Cardiganshire, with pro­per Furnaces fit for present use, and Sir H. M. having Furnaces ready at Neath, we were glad to use them at present, or else we should have lost a years time; be­sides the Duty of Coal, which is great in Cardiganshire, being saved at Neath, with the Advantages of having Timber, Lyme, Sturbridge-Clay, Iron, and other Neces­saries much more plenty there, we find we can really do our Business more cheap at Neath than in Cardiganshire. However, we are laying up a Stock of Coal in readiness against our Buildings are made in that Country.

That is well done: But what Officers have you at Neath?

We have a skilful Operator, for smelting and refining, and we have a Clerk or Pay Steward?

What is the Office of your O­perator?

To oversee and direct all the Smelters and Refiners, that they smelt the Oar, and refine the Lead, to the best pro­fit and advantage; that they loose no Lead in the Slags, nor any Silver in the [Page 125]Lytharge; and to be continually making Experiments and Improvements in this Art?

I like the first part of his Office very well, but in the latter he may do more hurt than good; for you may spend as much in Chymistry as you get by the Mines.

No, my Lord, we are better Husbands then that comes to; for our Experiments costs us not one Farthing, except a Barrel of Crucibles, and about Ten pounds every year for a Flux.

How so! Must you not have Iron, Brick, Sturbridge-Clay, &c. to build, essay Furnaces, and pay Wages to Workmen to keep the Fire, and attend the Operations; must you not have Coal to make this Fire, and Servants to carry away the Ashes? &c.

All Chymists must have these things and many more, and be at great Charges, and indeed all others in the common way of working, and as they commonly make their Furnaces; but we have so contrived our great Furnaces in the first building of them, that we make all sorts of Trials, and in all degrees of Heat, with the same Fire, and by the help of the same Men that are bound to attend these Furnaces; which saves a vast Ex­pence, [Page 126]and encourages us to be always trying new Experiments, to our great Advantage.

That is very ingeniously con­trived, I could be content to be such a sort of Chymist my self; but I suppose you must employ a great number of Men to work all your Furnaces Night and Day; how do you keep such a Tribe of Men in good order?

They are all kept to a strict Method, and bound to observe the Or­ders of the Work-house, under several Penalties, according to the Nature of the Offence; as for Swearing, Cursing, Quar­relling, being Drunk, or neglecting Di­vine Service on a Sunday, One shilling; for absenting from their Work two hours in a day without leave of the chief Ope­rator, or refusing to obey his lawful Com­mands, one days Wages; for absenting one whole day without leave, a weeks Wages, &c. all which Forfeitures are put into a strong Box, as a reserve for such of them as fall sick, or come to any Ac­cident. And all the Men are also bound to Secrecy, and to discover any Fraud, Deceit, or Mis-management, under the Penalty of One hundred pounds.

This is also very well ordered, for that will make them watch one ano­ther, that if they don't do their Duty, they may get as many Forfeitures for the Publick Stock as they can; and this will be a good Precedent for the Work-house in Cardiganshire. But what is the Duty of the Clerk of the Works?

The Clerk sees all the Oar weighed to the Smelters, and all the Lead to the Refiners; takes an Account of the Product, and attends the drawing off the Silver from every Test, and keeps an ex­act Account thereof, and of all the Stores; he is also our Cashier in that place, re­ceives all the Money, and pays all the Workmen their Wages.

And as to the Coal this Method is ob­served, The Officer at the Coal-pits and the Coal-carriers keep one Tally, and an Officer at the Silver Mills and Coal-carri­ers keep another Tally, which are com­pared and entred by the Clerk, who has an Assistant that is Witness to all his Pro­ceedings and Entries; and these four Of­ficers are all obliged to give in their Ac­counts to the Company upon Oath when­ever they shall be required.

Certainly there cannot be any thing more fair or better managed: But [Page 128]is there no way to deceive you of some of the Silver?

I think it is a very hard matter; for first, we Essay every parcel of Lead on a small Test, to see how much Silver it holds in a pound; then we stand by the first Trial in the great Furnaces, and exa­mine very carefully the yield thereof, by which we know what all the rest must afford to a small matter. Besides, there are many Men employed together in one Work-house, who must all combine to­gether, and forfeit their Obligations, or else they can't deceive us.

Well, Sir, I see you are in such a Method, that you are not easily to be imposed upon. And since I perceive it is the Opinion of wise Men, that it is not improbable but that your Mines may in time answer Mr. Wallers's Calculation, I desire to know (if that should happen) what Addition will be made every year in Silver to the General Stock of the Na­tion; for I am always for the Publick Good as much as I can; and after so long and expenceful a War, I should be glad to hear that the Nation was like to be replenished every year with a good Stock of Welsh Bullion; such a thing as this would fall out very happily, and [Page 129]providentially for this Kingdom; and would be discountenanced by none but those that are Enemies to their Country, or at least prefer their own private gain before the Interest of the Publick.

There have been of late great Improvements made in the Iron Trade by the ingenious Major Hanbury; and also in the Smelting and Manufacturing of Lead by several others; but that which would be most valuable and advantagious to this Nation, viz. The Art of Separating of Silver from Lead, is not yet brought to its highest Perfection. The Mine-Adven­turers, by the Aid and Ingenuity of Mr. Robert Lydall, have made the fairest step towards it; for that Oar which the great­est Artists in the Kingdom could not Smelt and Refine to any Profit at all, it is most certain they do; whereby, I doubt, we have raised the Envy, and consequently the Opposition of some E­minent and Ingenious Refiners, who per­haps may think it a Reflection on their Ingenuity, that any Improvement should be made in that Art by any other but themselves. But this Failing being so very common and natural to Mankind, ought easily to be excused; and we have been so very tender of their Reputation (whatever they have been of ours) that [Page 130]we have not pretended to Extract much more Silver out of a Tun of Lead than they did, and for that we have given a Reason, because the Oar in sinking deep­er grew better and richer then it was be­fore; so that their Sincerity in their for­mer Trials is freely owned and confess'd. But there being a great difference betwixt Refining of Silver, which is properly their Business, and Extracting of Silver out of Lead, which is properly ours; they may not have those Opportunities and Conveniences of making Experi­ments and Improvements in the latter, as we have. Besides, there is a great diffe­rence betwixt their way of Extracting, and ours, in respect of the Charge, for they do it with Wood, and we with Pit-coal; they in London, where all things are dear, and we in a Country where all things are cheap; they do it from Oar which costs about Four pounds a Tun at their Mills, and we with Oar that costs about Twenty shillings.

I am glad you have any Ad­vantages that may encourage you to proceed in the separating of Silver from Lead; because it is plain, that how little Profit soever you may make, all the Silver extracted is clear gain to the Nation; so that in case you [Page 131]extract no more than Five pounds out of a Tun of Lead, and the Charges of do­ing it amounts to Four pounds ten shil­lings, whereby the Profit to the Company is no more than Ten shillings in a Tun, which is very inconsiderable; the Na­tion will gain the whole Five pounds, which is considerable, and may a­mount to a vast Revenue, if you have Encouragement to extract the Silver out of great quantities of Oar. And therefore I desire to know what the Na­tion will get at that rate, in case the Mines should ever be advanced any thing near to Mr. Waller's Calculation.

My Lord, the Nation would gain above One hundred thousand pounds per Annum, as your Lordship may easily compute from the Calculation in Mr. Waller's Essay.

How! That will be a great Advantage to this Kingdom indeed; you need not fear Encouragement from all good Men and true Lovers of their Coun­try, as soon as the Nature of your Un­dertaking is known to the World.

But pray, my Lord, be pleased to consider that the Nation does not only get by the Silver extracted, but also by the Lead, Lytharge, and Red-Lead; which being Exported out of this King­dom, [Page 132]will Import their full value in Fo­reign Commodities, without carrying our Coin and Bullion out of the Nation; and if our Exports are of greater value then our Imports, the Ballance of Trade is gained.

You observe very well; and it is the undoubted Interest of this King­dom, to Export as little Silver and Bulli­on and as much of our own Commodities as we can, in order thereby to gain the Bal­lance of Trade: Which is the great thing we have always labour'd for in England, and the only thing that can make this Na­tion truly great and powerful.

But besides all this, it may not be improper to observe what a Chain of advantagious Consequences to the Nation will attend such an Undertaking as this; How many Hundred (if not Thousands in time) of Men, Women, and Children will be employed? The Men in raising, winding up, and stamping; the Women and Children in dressing and washing the Oar. How many Men and Horses in carrying the same to the Water-side? How many Sail of Ships will be employed in carry­ing Oar to Coal, and Coal to Oar round the South-Coast of Wales? How many Seamen to Man all those Ships? what numbers of Men will be employed [Page 133]in building and making all Materials for the Rigging of so many Ships with Sails, Masts, &c. and in Repairing the same; in loading and unloading the Vessels; and many other ways that are too nume­rous now to be mentioned.

These will be considerable; as we find by experience in the Trade of New-Castle Coal, which has all these Consequences, to the great Advantage of the Nation.

My Lord, New-Castle Coal had a beginning some time or other, as well as this Undertaking; I desire your Lord­ship to tell me, whether you believe that any Man that should at that time have gi­ven an Estimate of what did afterwards come to pass, how many thousand Men, and what vast number of Ships and Sea­men would be employed in that Trade, to the great Advantage of the whole Na­tion, whether at that time his Account thereof would not have seem'd as impro­bable as Mr. Waller's Essay on the value of these Mines.

Truly Sir, I believe it would; and therefore it must be confess'd, That Undertakings of this Nature ought to re­ceive all Encouragement imaginable, be­cause they may conduce very much to the Publick Good if they succeed; and if [Page 134]they do not, they can do none any hurt, but those that are concern'd in the Ad­venture.

Such Men in other Countries are esteem'd Publick spirited Men, and it is the Wisdom and Policy of their Law­makers always to assist and encourage them, and I doubt not but they will be encouraged here, when they are under­stood. But this is a new Undertaking, and unfortunately timed, in an Age when all new things are called Projects, and condemned without a hearing.

'Twas well timed in one re­spect, for Lead is grown a scarce and dear Commodity, and many Veins of late have failed in other Countries.

I think we are all now con­vinc'd, that you are engaged in an Un­dertaking that is likely to be very advan­tagious to the Publick as well as to your selves, as soon as the Works can be fet in order, and brought to perfection. And therefore I desire to know, first, What are the Difficulties you meet with; Se­condly, What Laws and Constitutions you want to make your Business more easie at home, and to give your Commodities a free vent abroad.

Without doubt it was consi­dered, that such an Undertaking as this [Page 135]must meet with many Difficulties, or else what occasion had there been for joyning so many Purses together, and raising so great a Stock.

Your Lordship observes very well, that all great Undertakings do of­ten meet with great Difficulties, and there­fore do require Time and great Purses, as well as Care and Conduct to bring the same to Perfection. But this is little con­sidered by those who condemn this Un­dertaking for delay, when I really think that no Undertaking hath ever gone on better for the time than this has done, or met with fewer Difficulties. Sir H. M. and Mr. Waller went down to the Mines the latter end of May last, and what Con­veniences hath been erected and made at Neath in Glamorganshire for Smelting, Re­fining, and Carriage of our Goods, the Ab­stract of the State of the Mines, set out by the Committee, doth sufficiently shew; as also that Mr. Waller since that time hath erected convenient Houses to Entertain One hundred and fifty Miners, on that barren desolate Mountain where the Mines lye; that the constant and punctual Payments hath encouraged the Country to bring Provisions to them; that the Works have been carried on Night and Day, with fresh Men every eight hours: [Page 136]And although Mr. Waller never propo­sed in his Essay to set the Works in or­der under a Year, yet he is now working in Oar in the Bog Vein, and does expect to be raising Oar in many more places before the year is expired; and had not the Rocks proved excessive hard, which is all the difficulty we have hitherto met with, we had in all probability carried our Levels to Oar in many places before this time.

But, Sir, you have now put me in mind of a great difficulty indeed; for some are so confident, as to say, that the Rocks are so very hard, you will never be able to get through them.

No! that's hard indeed; but, my Lord, it's plain we have got through them in some places, and that we have got into the heart of them in many other; so that they are not unconquerable.

But does not this Difficulty much discourage you?

No, my Lord, not at all; for it is a constant Observation amongst all Miners, that the harder the Rock, the richer the Mine; Nature generally makes the Case, stronger or weaker, according to the richness of the Treasure therein con­tained; for wherever the sides of a Vein are crack'd and broken, the Mineral Wa­ter [Page 137]that feeds the Vein, runs off, and the Vein proves dead, or very poor: But when the sides of a Vein are solid and firm, without cracks, the Mineral Fee­der impregnates and enriches the Mine, and the same proves quick and rich in Oar.

What you say is very rational, I confess; but yet from the hardness of the Rocks there is a great delay and loss of time.

My Lord, with humble sub­mission, I can't allow that any time is lost, that we never proposed to save: I own, that if Mr. Waller does not get through these hard Rocks by the latter end of May next, as he proposed, then we may be said to loose all the time be­yond May; and yet if the Veins do happen to prove at last much richer than he proposed, it will be no loss at all, but an Advantage.

I must beg leave on this occasion to take notice, that I have observed all along in this Undertaking, a very great and particular Providence, beyond what is common and ordinary in other Cases; I have had an account, by how many strange accidental Occurrences these Mines came to the knowledge, and afterwards to the management of those Persons, un­der [Page 138]whose Hands the first part of this Undertaking did so wonderfully prosper. It was not without admiration that I saw so many Persons of different Parties, Sexes, and Interests amongst the old Partners, entirely agree to refer all their Controversies and Law-Suits to the deter­mination of a Person that was a meer Stranger to them, when the dissent of any one Member had destroyed the whole Undertaking; I say, the sight of that Grand Settlement of the Mine-Adventure, signed and Sealed by so many Persons of different Qualities and Interests, di­spersed over the whole Kingdom, did not raise in me a common or ordina­ry Notion of the thing. Neither was it without some wonder that I beheld such an Undertaking set forth in the dead time of a Long Vacation (when the Town was empty, and many monied Men gone into the Country) to prosper to so high a degree, that Mr. Neale de­clared he never saw such crowding for Subscriptions before; That new Adven­turers, of all Ranks and Qualities, should agree in the same Opinion about it; Lords, Bishops, Members of Parliament, Divines, Merchants, and Lawyers in all Parts of the Kingdom: That all things that seem'd at first to be an obstruction, [Page 139]even the very Differences in the Family of the Proprietor, tended at last to the promoting of it: And therefore, I must con­fess, I am inclined to believe that even this particular Accident of the hardness of the Rocks, will also (some way or o­ther) tend to the Advantage of the Un­kertaking.

I confess there has been several remarkable Passages in this Undertaking, and besides what you have mentioned, the drawing of it so very fair, the appro­priating so considerable a part of the Pro­fits to Charitable uses, the Establishing so good a Constitution, the management of it with so much Care and Exactness in relation to the Accounts, and with such Frugality as to the main Stock, the vigo­rous prosecution of the Works, and the great Purchases so lately made by the Committee; all this induces me to have a very good Opinion of the Undertaking, that it is founded on an honest Bottom, and that it will be prosperous in time: But I confess, I can't understand how the hardness of the Rock can tend to the Advantage of the Undertaking, unless by keeping in the Mineral Feeder within the firm sides, and so making the Veins richer, as that Gentleman has observed.

My Lord, I humbly conceive that there is nothing can conduce more to the advantage of any Undertaking then an en­tire Union and good Agreement amongst the Partners; and there is no large Com­panies but may have some uneasie Mem­bers amongst them; Now, is it not an Advantage to have them out?

I understand you, Sir; and so you fancy that this Noise about the hard­ness of the Rocks, may make some un­easie impatient Members sell out, and Men of better Temper come in their places.

I do so, my Lord; and for my part, I have never had any Apprehension that this Undertaking could any ways miscarry, but by some disagreement a­mongst the Partners.

I hope there can be no manner of danger of that, since we have certain­ly as good a Constitution for the manage­ment of the Mines as any Company in England can have, for indeed it is com­posed of the best part of all their Con­stitutions, and I never saw any Compa­ny more unanimous in all my Life, which I confess is a very great Encouragement to me to venture my Money amongst them.

You know it is a Maxim, Con­cordiâ parvae Res crescunt, Discordiâ mag­nae dilabuntur; 'tis all your Interests to preserve this good Temper amongst you: But pray, Sir, is the Estate in Law of the Mines vested in the Adventurers?

No, my Lord; the Estate in Law is vested in Trustees of great Worth and Integrity, who are to permit and suffer the Partners to receive the Profits, and to manage the Mines according to the Constitution before-mentioned.

That was well contrived.

Nay, my Lord, we have been so careful to do every Person Right and Justice, that there is a Clause in the great Settlement, That in Case any Adventurer shall be in Debt, and suffer an Extent or Execution to come forth against him, that the Committee for the time being shall and may sell and dispose of such Adven­turers Shares and Interest in the Mines, at the best Price that can be had on the Exchange for the same, and therewith pay off and discharge the said Debt, the Cre­ditor assigning his Security to the said Committee.

Well, Sir, I must own that I am abundantly satisfied that this is an ho­nest Undertaking: But what do you, say to my Lord's other Question? [Page 142]Do you want no help from the Legisla­tive Power?

There is no Company so great, but the Legislative Power is able to make them greater; but at present I don't know of any thing that we have to desire, un­less his Majesty and the Parliament shall think fit to pass an Act to save the Lives of some Criminals condemned to Die for lesser Offences, and order them to be Transported over Severn to work in the Mines.

Sir, I thank you for that Thought, certainly there is nothing could redound more to the honour of a Christian King­dom than such a Law, whereby the Souls of many Thousands of Men may by the Grace of God be eternally saved, as well as their Bodies, from utter ruin and de­struction.

But besides the Charity of such a Law, there is no small Policy therein; for thereby the Nation would reap the benefit of their Labour, and the poor penitent Criminals be able to make some Atonement for their Crimes in the Service of their Native Country.

What you mention is a Law that all good Men would be very well pleased with, but that we have got such a [Page 143]horrible Notion in England of Slavery, that I doubt such a Law will never be carried in our Parliament.

Truly, my Lord, I am of your Opinion; I believe it would never admit of a Debate; the very Title of such an Act to make English-men Slaves, would be sufficient to throw it out of the House upon the first Motion.

My Lord, I humbly beg leave, with all due submission to your Lordships, to discourse this Matter a little farther, I humbly hope your Lordships (however) will not throw it out without Debate, nor be offended with me for offering my poor Thoughts on this Occasion to your Lordships Consideration.

No, good Doctor; Pray go on Sir, and say what you please.

My Lord, I presume that our No­ble English Patriots are not angry with meer Words or Sounds, but with the Thing it self called Slavery; that is, they abhor that Absolute and Arbitrary Power which is used in other Countreys of condemning Men to the Gallies for lesser Offences; but I can't think they do abhor the saving of an English-man's Life, when he is con­demned to die. That which is now pro­posed, is not to make English-men Slaves that are entitled to Liberty; but, on the [Page 144]contrary, to save condemned Criminals (that have forfeited their Liberty) from the Slavery, both of Sin and Death.

But you would still make them Slaves to work at the Mines.

My Lord, I would so; but they are first dead in Law; they have forfeited their Birth-right; they are no longer English-men; they are condemned by the Laws of England to die; their Blood is Attainted, and the Law has no farther tenderness or regard for them. Can any English-man be in fear of such a Law? No certainly; If he commits no Offence worthy of Death he is in no danger: if he does, he will be glad of such a Deli­verance, to save his Life, to have time to Repent, and to live among Christians in his own Country, where he will have a Chaplain to take care of his Soul, as well as a Keeper of his Body.

I protest the Doctor distinguish­es very well in this Case; If Men would have patience to hear this Matter fairly de­bated, I can't think but they would have another Opinion of such a Law then now they have; for (as the Doctor observes) the Thing we fear, is, That in Case of Misdemeanors, or other slighter Offences, instead of Fine and Imprisonment, or any [Page 145]other usual Corporal Punishment, the Judges should have power to condemn an English man to any sort of Slavery, which would be of ill consequence, for we are tender of our Liberty: But where there is no danger of loosing our Liberty, till a Man is first condemned to die, and hath forfeited his Estate, Liberty, Life, and all, I think that alters the Case very much; for this is to add Liberty to an English-man, not to take it away, since there is more Liberty in any Life, than in the dark Regions of Death.

Truly, my Lord, I think such a Law could never be more seasonable then at this time. Our late War has ta­ken off many thousand Mens Lives, the Country want Men for their necessary work of Husbandry, especially in Har­vest time, and if another War should happen the King would want Souldiers; and therefore for all Felonies and Lar­cenies without Benefit of Clergy, (except Treason and Murder) I think such a Law would be of great advantage to the Pub­lick, as I shall indeavour to demonstrate to your Lordship.

'Twould be a great advantage to your Mines perhaps; but I don't know whether it would be so great an advan­tage [Page 146]to the Publick, to have a Nest of Rogues in the Kingdom.

Hard Labour will in time bring down the highest Spirits; and with God's blessing and good management in a Christian Country, may bring them to a sense of Religion and Vertue.

My Lord, though I propose some advantage to the Mines by this Law, yet I propose more to his Majesty and the Publick, if your Lordship please to hear me out.

Sir, I'le hear you very patient­ly in any thing for the advantage of his Majesty and Publick, therefore pray go on.

My Lord, I propose that the Mine-Adventurers shall pay an Acknow­ledgment to his Majesty for every such Criminal; that is to say, Whereas a Workman in that Country may deserve Nine pence per day, I would divide that Nine pence into three parts, and ap­ply, Four pence per day to maintain the Criminal in Meat and Drink, Three pence per day to his Majesty, and Two pence a day to the Company for Clothes and other incident Charges; whereby his Majesty would have an Annual Rent of Four pounds per Ann. and upwards for each Criminal; at which rate One thou­sand Criminals would yield above Four [Page 147]thousand pounds per Annum, and Ten thousand Criminals above Forty thousand pounds per Annum. This is no con­temptible Income; and in all the Mines of the whole Kingdom so many Men may easily be employed.

I protest I am brought over; I like this Motion very well; and I can't tell how far this Thought may be impro­ved to many other purposes, as well as to the Mines, and bring in a very great Reve­nue, and thereby become very advantagi­ous to the Publick, and very agreeable to the Parliament.

But how would you be able to govern such a multitude of Men, and keep them in good order.

What has been done, may be done: Nay, what is now actually done in Hungary and other places, may I hope be practised in this Kingdom. If once there was a disposition to such a Law, I presume it would not be difficult to pen it so, as to provide against all Objections and In­conveniencies: and if England shall get but the Moiety of what is got by such a Law in Hungary, it would please both the King and Parliament very well. The Mines in Hungary bring in a vast Revenue, and are worked by condemned Criminals, or else they could not get a farthing pro­fit by them.

But, Sir, I question whether this Punishment would be so great a Ter­ror to Offenders as Death.

I presume it will be a much greater Terror to Offenders; for though when Death approaches and looks them in the Face, when the Terror of an Evil Conscience, and Fears of greater Punish­ment in another World, mortifies their Spirits, and daunts their Courage, they would perhaps much rather work at the Mines, and have time to repent, then take a sudden Leap in the Dark, under all those Horrors and Amazements of a guilty Soul; yet when Men are in the Vigour of their Youth, when their Spi­rits are high, their Courage bold and daring, and they are brought to great Necessities and Want, and thereby grow desperate, and are inveigled and drawn in by ill Company, to a lewd and wick­ed Course of Life, they generally cry out for A merry Life and a short one; they then look upon Death with an Atheistical Eye, without any Sense or Horror of Punishment in another World, and the pain of Hanging appears to be so incon­siderable and so short, that it causes no great Terror to them: But the Thoughts of being perpetually condemned to such hard work as the Mines, where they will [Page 149]be sure to do all the most slavish, and aborious work; Men that are used to Plenty and Ease will be extreamly ter­rified with such a Thought more then can be imagined; it will seem as terrible to them as to be hanged every day, and yet not to die and be eased of the pain.

Truly, Sir, you have convin­ced me, I really believe it would be much more terrible: But however, because it is a new thing, I should think it very ad­viseable that such a Law should be Tem­porary at first, and then there can be no danger in making a Trial of it.

Nay, my Lord, I am so very tender of proposing any thing that should be inconsistent with the Liberty of the English Nation, that I should humbly propose that such a Law should be so penn'd, that for fear of any the least Inconvenience, it should still be in the Election of his Majesty, either to let such Criminals suffer Death according to the usual Judgment passed upon them, (which should still be the same as for­merly, without alteration) or else (instead of Transportation to the Indies) to grant them a Reprieve for working at the Mines, and then the Criminal, being uncertain which Punishment might be inflicted up­on him, would be under a double Ter­ror, [Page 150]both of Death and of the Mines.

Now you have made the thing so clear to me, that I can see no manner of Prejudice by it, first to make such a Law Temporary, then that the Judgment be still the same, quod suspendatur per Cal­lum, &c. and only a Power granted to his Majesty in Capital Offences of a lesser nature, (instead of Transportation) to grant a Reprieve (not a Pardon) for work­ing at the Mines, &c. his Majesty receiving such an Annual Rent for every such Cri­minal as aforesaid, whilst in health and a­ble to work; there can be nothing said against this in my judgment.

Truly, my Lord, I think so; unless Hanging be a Priviledge insepara­bly annexed to the English: But what if a Criminal grow sickly and unable to work, how shall he then be maintained?

My Lord, by the Constitution of the Mine-Adventure, all aged and impo­tent Miners and Labourers in their Ser­vice, are to be maintained out of the Pro­fits of the Mines.

That is an extraordinary good thing indeed, that those who spend their Lives in your Service, to make you rich, should not starve themselves; but when­ever they shall grow impotent and una­ble to work, they may have a comforta­ble [Page 151]Subsistance provided for them.

This was the Contrivance of our Steward, Mr. Waller, that has drawn us all into this Undertaking; and this of saving of condemned Criminals to work at the Mines is my poor Thought, which I humbly submit to better Judgment.

Whatever becomes of this Thought your good Intentions will be always had in remembrance, and if he that saves the Soul of one Sinner covers a multitude of sins, what must such a Law as this do, that tends to the saving of Thousands?

I hope it will bring a Blessing upon the whole Nation, upon his most Sacred Majesty, the Right honourable the House of Lords, upon all the Commons of Eng­land, and especially upon their Representa­tives in Parliament, and upon all that have a hand in it, and amongst the rest upon us and our Mines.

Well, Sir, this is a Proposal worthy of Consideration, and I hope in time it may be modell'd by our Judici­ous and Learned Senators and Patriots of their Country, into such a Law as may be consistent with the Liberty of the English Nation, as well as with the Chri­stianity and Charity of our Religion. But, pray Sir, is there any thing else you would desire that may contribute to make you a flourishing Company.

Nothing, at present, that I can think of.

How, Sir! Can you that have just now bestowed so good a Thought upon us, think of nothing more?

No, Sir; I cannot think of more then four principal things required to make an Undertaking of this Nature pro­sperous and successful, viz. a Rich Mine, a Large Stock, Skilful Miners, and a Good Constitution; and the Gentleman I for­merly mentioned has taken care for us in every one of these Particulars; he has chose a large Mine near the Sea, and a good Port, fully tried and approved; he has contrived a way to raise, and also to secure a large Stock for us to the end of our Lease; and by his Provision for de­cay'd Workmen, he has encouraged able Miners to come over to these Works from all Parts of the Kingdom. And then, as to the Constitution for the management of the Mines, I have had their Lordships en­tire Approbation, and therefore I can't (for my part) imagine what can now be wanting to make this a flourishing Com­pany.

I am sorry for it: You Merchants when you have freighted out a strong Ship to Sea, have placed a good Master, a skilful Pilate, and able stout Mariners in [Page 153]her, are apt to think you have done your business, and that nothing more is requi­red; But, Sir, I must beg leave to put you in mind, that after all there is one thing more which you have not yet men­tioned, without which all the rest of your Politicks and Contrivances will not be of any value to you.

Pray, Sir, what is that?

Really, Sir, I am much concern­ed you should not be able to guess at it your self.

O, Sir, I presume now I un­derstand your meaning. I'le assure you, Doctor, I could never forget so material a thing as is contain'd in the very first words in all our Charter Parties, Last Wills and Testaments; but to tell you the truth, I often forbear to mention such things in the Company of Great Men for fear of Censure.

I am sorry, you should be af­fraid, upon any account whatsoever, to own your dependance on a Divine Power and Providence, which has so highly pro­spered all your Undertakings in other Matters; and as to us Lords, I must beg leave to retort your own Observation up­on you, That there is good and bad of all Professions, Ranks and Qualities whatso­ever: And I'le assure you, Sir, if we had [Page 154]no other Reason to believe a Divine Pow­er and Providence, the Regular Produ­ction of Mines under Ground is sufficient to convince us of this Truth.

I beg your Lordships pardon for my reservedness in this matter; I must confess I have all the reason in the world to acknowledge a Divine Providence in all my Affairs, and I am sure I have an entire dependance thereon for the Success of this Undertaking, for I know by ex­perience, that the Race is not to the swift, nor the Battle to the strong, nor Riches to Men of Ʋnderstanding, but the Almighty disposeth every thing as he seeth best.

I doubt not but the Charity out of these Mines will bring a Blessing upon them, which will in a reasonable time convince the rest of this Nation concern'd in Mineral Works, that it will not be their Loss, but their Interest, to appropriate a reasonable Part of all their Gains (espe­cially of these hidden Treasures) to the Service of their great Lord and Master, from whose Bounty they received them.

A little more time will open the Eyes of the World, and set this Un­dertaking in its proper Light; but I pre­sume it will now be very agreeable to these Noble Lords to propose an Ad­journment, for I doubt we have so tired [Page 155]their Lordships patience, that they will never care to hear any more of Mines af­ter this long Discourse.

I am so far from being tired, that I do assure you, Sir, I am abundant­ly satisfied with your Account of them.

That is your goodness, my Lord; but I hope it appears by this time, that this Undertaking is not to be despised or treated with too much neglect.

You have had our Opinions of that already, and it's plain that it wants nothing to bring it into the highest Esteem but to be understood; it is a new thing, and really some that are concerned with you, can give but an indifferent account of the matter.

Your Lordship has hinted at the true Reason for that, because it is a new thing, and very different from other Undertakings, though they at first setting up might be as difficult to be understood as this; which being entangled by Diffe­rences amongst the old Partners, could not be reduced to any effectual Method and Order without large Settlements, and a New Constitution. But I hope your Lordships understand it now pretty well.

I understand it so well, that I think every good English-man ought to assist and countenance your Underta­king.

Truly, my Lord, I am of your Opinion, I think it a very Noble and a very Charitable Ʋndertaking; and that all that have any Love to their native Country, or Charity for the Poor, will both speak and act in favour of it.

I humbly thank your Lordships, I hope so too: I know what the Ministers of France and Holland, and most other Countreys usually do, on such Occasions, to encourage Adventures of this Nature; and I doubt not but we have many wise and honourable Persons in this Kingdom, who understand and wish well to the Pub­lick Good of this Nation, and will not willingly suffer any private Interest to in­terpose, where the Publick is concern'd.