NOw for an Ishmael!

Are you the Isa­ac's then, against whom to speak a word, is to scoffe at the Children of God? And must we be all cast out, like the bondwoman, and her son, to make room for you the Holy Seed?

I did but use the words of a late Writer, who hath answered your two Debates. p. 19.

That hath snarl'd and carpt, you should have said, at some things in them which he did not understand, and—

This is your old Pride.

It is one of your old Arts rather and wretched shifts, to call men proud, [Page 2]when you cannot confute them; and when you have blotted a great deal of Paper with senseless or impertinent stuff, boldly to cry it up for an unanswera­ble piece.

What Arts do you tell me of? I know none, we use but honesty and plain dealing.

We know a great many other, which have alway stood you in mighty stead. One is, to extoll the men of your own party to the very skie, to mag­nifie their gifts, their zeal, their since­rity, their self-denial, their tenderness of Conscience, their pains taking, toge­ther with their sufferings, though ne­ver so small; And on the other side to disparage ours, or, at the best to speak very coldly of them, though never so pious and learned: nay to shake your heads sometimes, and lament their Ig­norance in the mystery of Christ, the meanness of their spiritual gifts, the for­mality of their pravers, their unedify­ing preaching, and (as it is to be fear­ed) their straining Conscience to com­ply with the times.

Pray let's have no more of this.

Why may I not tell you a few o­ther Devices that have been in use to win and keep your Proselytes? As to brag of your numbers, to spread sto­ries and lyes by your Agents and cor­respondents from one end of the land to the other; to fill every Country with the very same tales; to possess the peo­ple against the writings of those of our way; to give glorious titles to your own Books; to cry up your sufferings, as if they were for the cause of Christ; to call all things you do not like, I do­latry, Antichristianisme, Popery, and such like odions and frightful names; nay, such hath been the tenderness of some of your hearts, as to threaten your poor neighbours they shall have no work, at least to deny to imploy them, unless they will come to your mee­tings.

Now you calumniate to pur­pose.

It was a thing notorious in the late times, as Mr. Edwards assures us; and I have cause to think this evil hu­mour is not spent, but rather encreased. But be that as it will; you have a num­ber of far more efficacious Arts then this. As, to vaunt of the power of your [Page 4]preaching, of the glorious appearance of God among you, and of the multi­tude of Converts to you; to bespatter all that oppose you; to perswade the people, it was good livings that made so many turn Conformists; and that they have lost their gifts, and are much decreased in their graces: at least you have thought good to terrifie them, and bid them take heed; for they have lost the prayers of thousands. But if any adventure to write against you; wo be to them. Whatsoever they were be­fore, immediately they become the e­nemies of God and all goodness. The people are told, that they strike at the power of godliness through your sides; and that they reproach Religion, when they reprove your Superstition. Every reprehension is called railing and ha­tred to the people of God; and what­soever fault they find, it is done on purpose, you say, to bring all godliness into contempt. In short, to suppress you, is to suppress the Spirit; and but to speak against your affected language, is to be desperately profane: for who ever saw the beauty of Sion, and the glory of the Lord filling the Tabernacle, but in your Congregations? Let any man go [Page 5]about to contradict this, it is but pour­ing out half a dozen Scriptures against him, nothing to the purpose, and he is confuted; nay, one word will do the work, and he shall be thought to write rarely, and to come off like an Angel, who can but say; The Lord rebuke thee.

You had as good hold your peace, for I beleive nothing that you say.

I can prove in every particular by true and faithful histories, that this hath been the humour of your Sect.

Save your self the labour; I have no time nor list to hear you.

Nor to read good Books; but only to babble, as your Answerer doth, out of your own head. Did you never see a little Book called, A wise and mo­derate Discourse concerning Church Af­fairs?

No.

It was Printed in the beginning of our Warrs, 1641. And I find it since put among my Lord Bacons Works: there you may find several of these things noted. First; saith he, Speaking of the Op­pugaers of the present Ecclesiasti­cal Go­vernment. they have appropriated to themselves the name of zea­lous and sincere and reformers; as if all [Page 6]others were cold, minglers of holy things, profane men and friends to abuses. Nay, if a man be indued with great vertues and fruitful in good works, yet if he coneurre not fully with them, he is called (in dero­gation) a civil and moral man, and com­pared to Socrates, or some Heathen Philo­sopher. Just contrary to St. John, who would have called such a man Religious; and told such as many of them, that h [...] vainly boasts of loving God whom he hath not seen, who loves not his neighbour whom he hath seen. St. James also saith, that this is true Religion, to visit the Father less and the Widdow. So as that which is but Philosophical and moral with them is, in the phrase of the Apostle, true Reli­gion and Christianity. And as in affections they challenge the said virtue of zeal and the rest, so in knowledge they attribute [...] themselves light and perfection. The Church of England in King Edwards daies wa [...] but in the swadling cloaths, or in the Cra­dle: in Queen Elizabeths time but in it infancy and childhood. The Bishops h [...] somewhat of the Day break, but the M [...] ­turity and fulness of light is reserved fo [...] themselves. And as they consure virtu [...] men by the names of Civil and Moral, [...] those who are truly and godly wise (a [...] [Page 7]discern the vanity of their Assertions) they term Politicians; and say their Wisedome is but carnal and savouring of mans Brain. And in like manner if a preacher speak with care and meditation, ordering his matter distinctly, and inforcing it with strong proofs and warrants, they censure it as a form of preaching, not becomming the simplicity of the Gospel; and refer it to the reprehension of St. Paul, speaking of the enticing words of mans wisdome. You may read there a great deal more to the same purpose, if you have a mind to see your own picture. But nothing methinks is more memorable then the blind rage and fury, which the discove­ry of a most impious cheat excited in some of your predecessors hearts. There was a young Preacher pretended to a power of Casting out Devils; which he began to assume in the year 1586. and more openly professed 1597. This made a great noise of glory, lights, lamps, and shining beams which now appeared in the work, Discove­ry of the fraudulent practices of John Darrel &c. A [...]. 1599. p. 19. It was given out to be a mar­vel [...]us work, a mighty work of the Lord Jesas, which all that loved him in since­rity must be careful to publish: a matter of as great consequence and as profitable to all that sincerely professed the Gospel, as e­ver [Page 8]any was since the restoring it amongst us Ib. p. 16.: And though first her Majesties Judges, and then her commissioners in causes Ecclesiastical, found by the free confession of the party said to be dis­possessed, that it was a meer cheat and a wicked combination to abuse the peo­ple, yet they ceased not to cry out, that to deny the dispossession was in a sort to deny the Gospel. It appeared so evidently (said the Author of the brief Narration) to be the finger of God; as though we our selves should forsake it, and with Judas betray our Master, yea with Pharoah set our selves to obscure it: yet the Lord if he love us will rather make the stones to cry out and utter it, Yea the Devils themselves to ac­knowledge it, then it shall be hid. And I would advise them that slander this work and persecute the Servants of God without causeFor Dar­rel you must know was im­prisoned., to take heed lest they be found e­ven fighters against God. Now would you know, what the business was which made these men stickle and clamour in this fashion? It was briefly this. When Mr. Darrel and his friends prayed by the Book, the boy, or as they said the De­vil in him, was but little moved; but when they used such prayers as for the present occasion they conceived, then the [Page 9]wicked spirit was much troubled. He acknowledged them also to be powerful men, and that he was much tormented by their powerful preaching Disco: very p. 35.48.49.50. This was it which tormented the Bishops also, to see such mean persons do such won­derful things, or to use their own words, It cannot be indured, said the Nar­ration vid. p. 6., that these kind of men which are accounted the off-scouring of the world should be thought to have such interest in Christ Jesus, as that, by their prayers and fasting, he should as it were visibly descend from Heaven and tread down Satan under their feet: whereas other men, ☞who ac­count themselves more learned, excellent, and wise than they, do not with all their Physick, Rhetorick, pomp, and primacy ac­complish the like. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and the weak things of the world to confound the mighty. A place of Scrip­ture as well applied, as that in the 4th. of St. Matthew, He shall give his An­gels charge over thee, &c. and very fit to stir up the peoples hatred against their Governours, who appeared a­gainst this Holy Cause, as they called it, and laboured to suppress this migh­ty work of God.

I haue no leisure to hear these old stories, long since dead and bu­ried.

Nor have I any need to look so far back. For this very Scriblers Book, which you tell me of, is a bundle of such like lewd and impudent tricks and shifts, as I have mentioned: though the truth of it is, they are so poorly ma­naged; that any one may see he is a meer bungler in his own trade: and el­ther for want of wit, or through the violence of his passion, cannot understand so much as common sense.

O Luciferian Pride! O attempts to outrail Ralyhakeh! You may make ano­ther Lucian in time, I had almost said another Julian, if you persist in this way.

You have his words by heart p. 31. of his answer, and it is most stoutly and resolutely an­swered. But I must tell you, it hath been alwaies thought (as Mr. Chillingworth well observes) a mark of a lost and de­spairing cause, to support it self with im­petuous outcries and clamours: the faint refuges of those that want better arguments. And little doth he know, whom he imitates in these brutish ex­clamations. I never saw any man more like that fellow in Lucian, who cryed, [Page 11] O [...].accursed wretch, O damn'd villain, when he could say nothing else.

Yes, both he and we have something else to say.

That is, you have a scornful and supercilious way of pittying those, whom you have a mind to vilifie, which car­ries with it some shew of goodnesse; when it proceeds from a great disdain of others, and an high opinion of your selves. You may remember it, is like, without sending you to a Book of un­doubted credit where you may find it, who it was that said publiquely, He intended to have preached before the poor wretch (viz. his late Majesty, then near his death) upon 14. Isa. 18.19. &c. but the poor wretch, said he, would not hear me. Another also having jeered our Di­vine Service as much as he pleased, at last, wiping his mouth, sanctified all with a sigh or two over us, as poor delu­ded Souls: and then we were much in­debted to his charity.

You will be called to an ac­count one day, for your malevolent and mischievous writings.

That's another way you have to astonish and delude the Multitude, by thundring out Threatnings, and de­nouncing [Page 12]Judgments against us: in which this Gentleman is very powerful, and may pass for a Boanerges. There be­ing this device also accompanying it, to make the Art more effectual; which is, to cry out Blasphemy! if we do but mention any of your Follies; to tell the people (as T. W. doth Epistle to a new ser­mon c [...]lled the Fiery Serpents. 19. Febr. 1668.) that you wish we have not sinned the sin unto death; and to bid us, take heed, that some do not think (as this scribler speaks) we have done despight to the spirit of grace p. 101. of sober Answer.. Thus I remember some wrote a letter to Bp. M [...]ntague Annexed to the ap­peal of the Or­thodox Ministers (as they called themselves) to the Par. against him printed at Edinburg. 1641., wherein they do bat chari­tably hope he hath not committed the Unpardonable sin; exhorting him to re­cant publiquely of his malitious Errors and Heresies, or else, they tell him, he could never have Salvation. But after this (as if they were in no danger, do they what they would) a fit of railing follows; wherein they upbraid him with his birth and parentage, nay, with his very looks and visage (in such vile lan­guage as I will not name) and at last conclude in this fashion, If you can, love the Lord Jesus, and do belong to his Election of grace p. 31..

Me thinks you have an art be­yond all these, having shifted and put [Page 13]me off thus long from what I was going to say, that your Book is answered, and—

And soberly too, as the Title pre­tends.

Yes.

Thats strange, when he roars and cries out so hideously, as we have heard; and complains that he is in a pas­sion; that I have made him spit and sput­ter; nay spue in my very face.

Do not use such words.

They are his own confessions. p. 14.31, 289.. And he acknowledges withall, that he was impatient till he came out against me; that he could not find a man so impru­dent and desperate as himself pag. 2.3.31.; and ha­ving lay'd about him very furiously, he puffs and blows, and saies he is o­verheated; in so much that he is fain to cool himself again with some Holy breath and falls to prayer, when he can exclaim against me no longer. This shews him to be one of the right strain; that can do these things which they condemn, and immediately betake themselves to their Prayers and say I hate my self for it p. 22.; and then they are well, and ready to do the same again. A thoroughly honest man would have laboured to [Page 14]undo what he saw he had done amiss; as he might, if he had pleased, with one stroke of his pen. But there is no such demonstration of his fierce and fi­ery spirit, as this; that he resolved to confute the second part of my Book be­fore he saw it, at least before he would consider it?

Why do you say so?

Because it did not come to his hand, as he tells you it was May 3. and he began April. 21. pag. 81. till he had writ­ten several sheets and printed some (as I have reason to think) and yet they bear the Title of an Answer to the two Friendly Debates. At least he clapt on this Title as soon as the second part ap­peared, and before he had duly weighed all things in it; for I know those that saw some of his sheets printed with that Title presently after May the 3d. when he first received my Book. Was not this bravely done, and like a man in his sober wits? Are not these like to prove excellent men to guide your Conscien­ces, who resolve before hand, if we reason with them, not to be convinced, but to adhere to their party right or wrong? I could not but fancy him, when I observed this, in such a posture as Mr. Burroughs thought he saw Mr. [Page 15] Edwards, fretting and chasing in his study, saying to himself, I will answer him, I that I will: I will reply, I that I will. Like one Piso, St. Hierome speaks of, who though he knew not what to say, yet he knew not how to hold his peace. If he could have had a little patience till he had read but the Epistle of my Book seriously, he might have met with such advise as would have cooled him better then his Prayers, viz. To know before he judged, and not to believe all flying Tales. But an Answer it seems was to be thrust out in all hast, no matter how it was composed, or of what lyes it was made up. He could not stay to think much about it, nor indeed was there any great need; being to please those mean Spi­rits, who like a work best, (as a great man observes) when it resembles those Sacrifices, out of which the heart is ta­ken; and where, of all the Head, no­thing is left but the tongue only.

And why, I beseech you, should not he answer you? Are you such a Goliah of Gath, that no man can deal with you?

I took a measure of my self before ever I took pen in hand: and know ve­ry well how much inferiour I am to my [Page 16]neighbours. But the more to set off the greatness of his own courage and no­ble Atchivements he paints me like that uncircumcised Philistine: and then fancies himself to be a chosen one, pickt out by God As God would have it, I proved to be the man. p. 192. like another David to enter into a single combate with me. This he was not contented to tell us once p. 1., but as his manner is, he repeats it again in his fulsome preface p. 28.. Ha­ving no fear but this, that after he had killed Goliah he should rise again, and renewing the fight should bring some other Giant into the field with him, and be two to one; which all know is unequal. And therefore distrusting my generosity of which he had some opi­nion when he concluded his Book p. 192. I think you a more ge­nerous E­nemy than to set any body beside your self upon me who have encountred you with­out the help of a second, &c., he betakes himself to Conjurations to keep me from taking that advantage. I may well conjure you, saith he, that if I must be replyed to, you alone would do it, for it is not equal that you should have a second, and I have none. It was enough for such a stripling as David to encounter one Giant at a time; and you are taken by some for another Goliah. What ailed thee, O thou flowr of Chivalry, to faint on this fashion? How came thy stout heart to quail at last? Thou that canst [Page 17]pour out Scripture upon thy Enemies as thick as Hail-shot, that canst charge and discharge as fast as a man can spit, that canst dispatch Dragons as easily as Goli­ah's; Why shouldst thou fear a thousand Giants, though as big as Steeples, any more than so many Crows?

Pray cease your fooling.

I assure you he must pass, at least, for one of the Seven Champions; for no body, he tells you, is thought to be my march, unless a St. George who kill'd the Dragon Pag. 292.. Behold the man then, Horse and Arms, and all. See how he flourishes and swaggers, and resolves to pull me down from the third Heavens, whither he fears the breath of the people, and my own vanity may in fancy have trans­ported me Ib. 292.. But the mischief of it is, this Doughty Knight had no sooner bestrid his Beast and marched a few paces, but by some Inchantment or o­ther he lost his wits, and was turned into a new Don Quixote. For if you look into the very next page 293. As he told Hezekiah, that he would deliver him 2000. Horses if he were able to set Riders up a them: so it hath been said, if any man would be the Rider, [...] mean, the Answerer of your Book, he, or rather his Book, should come mounted into the World upon the Back of a [...] Authentick License, &c I hope then I shall not miscar [...]y, &c.; you will [Page 18]find that he fancies my Book to be an Horse, himself riding on the back of it, and which is most wonderful, at the same time fighting with it: and it was none of his fault, I assure you, that he was not also mounted upon the back of an authentick License. But nothing daunted for want of that, up he gets on the Back of the Book, and giving it line upon line (as he speaks) and lash upon lash, away he flies with his head full of Chi­maera's and impossible Imaginations. For he had but just fetcht his breath, and spoken a few words, before the poor Book was turned into a strong City or Fortress; and he walked round about it; as his own description of his adventures tell us, told the Towers thereof, markt well its Bulwarks, considered its Palaces Pag. 294., and setting down before it, either besieged or storm'd it, he knew not whether; and, in his fancy, pulled down all the strong holds thereof, and brought into Captivity every Notion in it, that did exalt it self against Truth and Godliness. And yet he had not travail'd farr, before it was turn'd into a mighty man again, and he thought he saw a Sampson, threatning to pull down the whole Fabrick of Religion, as he did the House upon the Philistins Pag. 22. of the Pre­face.. And [Page 19]then it was a Goliah, as I told you Ib. p. 28.; and a very few minutes before Ib. p. 27. it ap­peared like Geryon, a Gyant with three heads; nay, he did not know but it might be a whole Legion, compassing Re­ligion, as he elegantly speaks, with Rams Horns to make it fall like the walls of Je­richo Ib. p. 25..

I think you are horn madd.

You imitate his puny jests very well. And to confess the Truth, I am a little out; and must correct my Error in not begining in good Order. I should have told you, as the custom is, that of all the days in the year it was April 21. As he tells in the the begin­ing of his Book., in the cool of the Spring Which makes the adventure more won­derful, Don. Q. fury hap­peni [...]g in the warmest day of July., the Non­conformists being then in the tenth degree of Taurus, or to speak in plain terms, in the Second of the twelve Signs of the Zodiack of their sufferings.—

Your wit sure is in the fall of the leaf.

Very well. I am glad to see you in so good a humour; but you must laugh at him, and not at me, for they are his words I assure you P. 246. I had al­most said they have run through all twelve of the Signs in that Zodiack of Suffering which I spake of.. Then, I say, it was, when the good Knight Philaga­thus, or as he is sometimes stiled, Philo­gathus (for there is a difference about his Name, as there was about Don Qui­xote's) [Page 20]abandoning the slothful plumes, and causing certain old rusty Arms to be scoured, which had a long time lain neg­lected and forgotten, in the great Ma­gazines of Qui mihi, Propria quae Ma­ribus, Syntaxis, and other such like fa­mous Armories, put on his Cap, took up his Pen or Lance (call it which you please) and mounted his Steed, marvel­lous content and jocund to think what a noble enterprise he took in hand, of cleaving Giants, beheading Serpents, killing Monsters, finishing Enchant­ments, and in one word, righting all the wrongs, and redressing all the inju­ries, that had been done to the N. C. He had no sooner sallied forth, but a world of windmills whirl'd in his head; and at every turn he fancied he saw some huge Giant, some impious Goliah defy­ing the Armies of the living God. Upon these he sets with a zealous rage, and by his own single arm, in his conceit, van­quishes them all; not having so much as a Sancho Pancha to wait upon him. A Monster or Prodigy of ill Nature, for instance, presents it self, the greatest, one of them, that ever he heard of Pag. 80.. At the first sight it seemed to his roving thoughts like Bloody Bonner, but a little [Page 21]after, like cruel Nero, breathing out no­thing but death and destruction. This put him out of all patience, as he tells you, so that after a few words, he could neither think nor speak any more of it; but falls on to thresh it like a Sheaf of Wheat to the very dust, for fear it should heat a fiery furnace, which now appear'd in his Imagination, and which the Mon­ster, he thought, might bespeak for them. Thus it was in danger to become a Nebuchadnezzar, and before he had done, it appeared in the shape of the Devil himself; every one suspecting that if it were in the power of this Fiend, he would cast them body and soul into endless torments They are his words, p. 149.. And who do you think this Nero-like Monster was? you will scarce believe it; but if you con­sult the Book, you will find it was no body but St. Paul himself, or a poor Conformist explaining and using his Words Friendly Debate, 1. Part. p. 53.; to shew his neighbour that, according to the Apostles opinion, he might as well suffer him only to com­mend some persons a little, as suffer o­thers to do a great deal more than that comes to: This made it vehemently su­spected that our Don's brains did more than Crow at this bout, and that he [Page 22]crasht his teeth, and was perfectly madd with rage. The first occasion of which was a bodily fear wherewith he was sur­prised, that the Monster had a design to forrage all the Country, and leave it so naked of Belly-ware, that he and his must starve. This kindled his wrath, and made his eyes so red, that he could see nothing but Blood, Death, and Hell fire; though there was not the least spark, I assure you, of envy, anger or ill-will in him whom he yells against. But let us pass by this; and next behold a Monster of Pride, taller by the head and shoulders than most others, which started out of his fancy and set it self before him. It was the more frightful, because it was thus large, and yet but a young Cub; not yet grown up unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Pride; as he is pleased to describe it P. 196.. He resolved therefore to slice him, and make minc'd meat of him before he grew too boiste­rous, and stretcht himself as high as Lucifer, or the Morning Star. I [...] which Planet, if you will believe an History Lucian. Verae Hist. L. 1. as true as his Book, there are people by this time so big, that from the waste up­ward they are as tall as the great Colos­fus of Rhodes. But of all the Apparitions [Page 23]he encountred in this Frenzy, there were none put him into so great a Passion, as an huge Giant, just like that wicked Alifamfaron, a furious Pagan, mention­ed in the famous History of Don Quix­ote. L. 1. Part. 3. c. 4. For he conceived he saw him taking a course, that Divinity might be exchanged for Philosophy, Christianity for Heathenism, our Bibles and the Precepts thereof, for Seneca and Epictetus Preface p. 18.. All the Coun­try was in danger to be wasted by him; for he threatned, as he imagined, to pull down the whole Fabrick of Religion Ib p. 22., and to extirpate praectical Holiness from Dan even to Beersheba, from one end of the Land to the other Ib. p. 12.. For the compassing of which, behold a great rout, with a numerous train of Artillery following him at the heels, I know not how many Maximes, Stratagems, Directions, Apho­risms, and other clattering words, as you may find in his terrible Preface. Where he tells you they are very un­sound and unsavoury, yea prophane and im­pious, yea and bent against Religion Ib p. 39.. Thus he multiplyed Monsters in his wild Ima­gination, which made those things ap­pear prophane and impious, yea and bent against Religion (for these things are dif­ferent in his conceit) which are as in no­cent [Page 24]as that Flock of Sheep which Don Quixot [...] took for so many Giants in Ali­famfarons Army. So some of his Friends, as I understand, told him, and would have restrained him (as Sancho laboured to do his Master) from making such a desperate assault upon such harm­less things; but nothing could with­hold him: Away he flings and hunts up and down, as Don Quixote did a­mong the Sheep, saying, in great heat, Where art thou proud Alifamfaron, where art thou? O have I found thee? come to me thou proud Wretch, for I am but one Knight alone, who desire to prove my force with thee man to man, and deprive thee of thy life, in revenge of the wrongs thou hast done to the N. C. And just as he was think­ing to chastise his Pride, he fancied himself transform'd into an Angel and Messenger from Heaven P. 201.. to give the Villain such buffets, as he thinks he will remember all the days of his life.

You said, he would take away his life. Pray make an end of this idle tale.

You must know he was so merci­ful, as not to kill him, provided he would submit to this condition, to go [Page 25]to W. B. as Don. Q. resolved to enjoyn the conquered Caraculiamtro to go to his Dulcinea, and falling on his knees with an humble and submissive voice ask for­giveness Pag. 41., and say, I am that furious Pa­gan, the destroyer of Religion, the rooter out of Practical Piety, whom the never too much praised Knight Don Philogathus, hath overcome in single combate, and hath commanded me to present my self before your greatness, that it may please your Highness to dispose of me according to your liking. This being done, he tells him they will shake hands, as the Lawyers do after they have fought at the barr, and say how do you Brother? I hope there is no hurt done, but all is well again Pag. 290, 291..

It's well the fray is over: and I hope you have done your Story.

I have omitted a number of plea­sant conceits that came into his head, which would make a Volume as big as Amadis de Gaul, should they be all written. And now I mention him, it calls to mind a notable dispute which hapned between Don Quixote and a neighbour of his, touching who was the better Knight Palmarin of England, or Amadis de Gaul: for just such another doth our Don raise about this Questi­on, [Page 26]Whether St. Taffee, or St. Patrick was the better Saint. Many words he makes about it; and in spight of the Irish, or the red letter before his name, St. Pa­trick, in his judgment, hath the worse of it. And no wonder: for such was his gross Ignorance, that he poor Soul took St. Taffee or David, for the Divine Psal­mist the King of Israel. When as every child knows, who hath read true Hi­stories, and not pleased himself like this Knight in his own Imaginations, that he was a famous Bishop in Wales about 1100. year ago; who by the favour of King Arthur translated the Archi-Epi­scopal See from Landaff, to that City which bears his Name to this day.

I confess here he stumbled grieveously. But I thought you would have been so kind, as to have imputed it to the power of Enchantment.

That I confess is the best excuse, which will make his mistakes as pardon­able as the Errors of his Predecessor Don Quixote; who took his Inne for a great Castle, and the honest Host for the Noble Constable of it. And indeed a pleasant sight it is, to behold how while he is searching for one thing, he still encounters another, as Sancho sor­rowfully [Page 27]told Maritornes. He transforms every thing he meets withal into some­thing else quite of another nature; and now it appears in one shape, immedi­ately in another so vastly different, that the great Enchantress the Author of all these transformations, (I have for­got her name, but it ends also in fee or fia Dokesi­sophia as I take it.) is much to be admired. As for ex­ample, now he fancies me riding like Phaeton in the Chariot of the Sun, set­ting this part of the world on fire; and in a trice, before he had well finished one Sentence, the wind of my Spleen (mark the distraction of his fancy) is rumbling in the bowels of the Earth, to make an Earthquake all England over Preface, p. 6.. At this instant he quarrels with the Ra­tional Divines (as he calls them) and makes a fearful stir with them; and at the next breath, they are turn'd into Romantick Preachers, that would plant all Religion within the compass of the famous Arcadia Ib. p. 12. 13.. As for himself, you shall find him like a Roman Sergeant with a bundle of Rods at his back, but let him speak a few words, and he is turn'd into a Robin Hood, and appears with his Bow and Arrows which he lets fly a­mong us Ib. p. 31..

No, only at your self. For [...] labours to give no offense to Jew or Ge [...] ­tile, or to the Church of God, as he the [...] tells you, p. 34.

Very well observed; he is excee [...] ­ing tender of all Jews and Gentiles, in [...] which his distracted fancy transform [...] some of us; but there are certain P [...] ­grims, what they are in his esteem, Jew [...] Gentiles or Christians, I cannot tell, [...] whom he grins very often and makes u [...] ­ly mouths, nay, lets fly with all h [...] might, and treats them very rudely. B [...] he is never more extravagant, than wh [...] he comes to talk of keeping days, whi [...] is as dear to him as Dulcinea to his Bro­ther Don. This he compares to empty­ing the Body by Bleeding and Purging Spring and Fall, or as occasion serves▪ and yet at the very next glance con­ceives it like to exceedings in our Diet, [...] eating and drinking to a greater fulness Ib. pag. 18, 19. All this shews that he is out of his wit [...] and needs a little bleeding himself. If he were sent from that Hospital where he now is, to that without Bishopsgate, it might do him a great deal of good.

Now you bite.

I am between jest and earnest (as he speaks, p. 293.) but by no means can [Page 29] [...]e made angry with him: Especially when I see how prettily he frisks, how l [...]ghtly he leaps over all difficulties, and jumps from one thing to another at the greatest distance; just l [...]ke the Knights-Errant, who are carried in a clowd from one Country to another in the twink­ling of an eye: being now in England, and immediately at Trap [...]sonda by the help of the wise Enchanter. And then he doth so nimbly, and with so much facility apply every thing he meets with­al to his raving Chivalry and ill-errant thoughts (as the Author of Don Q. Hi­story speaks) that it is no small pleasure to behold it. Besides, he is so mar­vellously well satisfied with his perform­ance, and thinks at every turn he comes off so rarely, and with such wonderful success, that it cannot but give one a sin­gular entertainment. He meets, suppose, with a Rational Divine, and speaks ne­ver a word of reason to him: and yet away he flies like Lightning, as if he had seen that old Sophister, the Devil. Nay, he fancies sometimes that he sees a whole Regim [...]nt, whom he calls the Rational Regiment Pag. 68.: but that's all one, he hews them down as if they were but so much Grass; and in two words, his Wor­ship [Page 30]hath got the Victory. More th [...] this, while he is in this career, and im­gines one part of the Castle (i. e. t [...] Book) to be taken and demolished; [...] wonders the other did not fall to th [...] ground of it self, or vanish rather o [...] of sight See p. 197.. For, saith he, I have pro [...] at large, about the begining of my Book, the this is the right sense, and yet you con [...] ­nue wedded to your own Exposition, &c. [...] if his Answer had appeared before t [...] Book he encountred was all in being or as if upon his combate with the be­gining of the Book, the rest shou [...] have disappeared; and the Letters turne as white as Paper, for fear that [...] should see them. What, are you at [...] again, after I have so chastised yo [...] Dare you look me in the face again wi [...] that Exposition, which I have batter [...] and bang'd you for? Methinks yo [...] should have remembered the blows yo [...] received; and knowing the weight [...] [...]y arm, not come within the reach [...] it any more. But, O stupidity! I fi [...] you continue wedded to your own Exp [...]si [...] ­on, nay, keep a woful hugging and da [...] ­ling of the Bastard, after I have dasht i [...] brains against the stones. To this pur­pose the man mused, as you read i [...] [Page 31]the place now quoted. Whereby you may see, he hath a crack in his brain so wide, that one may put two or three fin­gers into it.

I am very sorry for him, I think he is an honest man.

You need not trouble your self at all about him. He is as merry as a Crick­et for all this: and injoys himself most sweetly in the thoughts of his noble at­chievments.

But he hath stumbled so scur­vily, that he hath wounded himself very much in my opinion.

Never fear; he is so full of mettle that he will scarce feel it, though he should receive such a blow on the jaws, as was given Don Quixote; which left him but two teeth and an half; all the rest being as plain as the palm of my hand.

And I must tell you, that would be a sore affliction: for a mouth with­out cheek-teeth, as my Author says, is like a Mill without a Mill-stone. Those Grinders are pretious things, much more to be esteemed than Diamonds.

He is so jocund, that he values them not; but would think himself as good a man, though he should live upon [Page 32]Pap, and be fed with a Spoon. Besides, I must let you know, that he hath a great Vial full of Balsam, altogether as pow­erful as the famous Balsamum of Fiera­bras.

What is that? I understand not your hard words.

It was the best Balsam that any Knight-errant ever had. For the vir­tue of it was so great, that should a man chance to receive such a bang upon his side as buried two or three of his ribs in his body, nay hapned to be cloven in twain, so that one half of him fell on this, the other on that side of his Saddle; yet a draught or two of it, if he w [...]re care­fully set together again, would make up the breach intirely, and straightway render him as sound as an Apple. Such a pretious Composition our Don Philaga­thus is provided withal, which consists of such ingredients as these; It is or may be; some perhaps; I had almost said; for any thing I know; I know nothing to the contrary; if I mistake not; and some other such like words [...]; whereby he can salve any thing, though you imagine the cure never so desperate. As for ex­ample, When W. B. is charged with Preaching that God is departed from the [Page 33]Nation, but will return, &c. Pag. 190. presently he produces his Bottle, and drops out one or two of those words, saying, It may be Mr. B. detests Treason as much as your self, though careless Brachygraphers may—

What are those?

We have talkt so much of Mon­sters, that you take them, I perceive, for some strange Creatures who abused W. B. They are those that take Sermons in Short-hand; who, saith he, may sa­sten some unwary expressions upon him, now and then; and such it may be as ne­ver fell from his mouth, &c. And now all is well, and W. B. as whole as a fish. Though others think for all this, that it may be he doth not detest it, and it may be those words did full from his mouth, and the Brachygr— (the hard word sticks in my throat) it may be did not abuse him; or rather it is certain they did not; otherwise he might have heal'd himself before this, in a better manner than this Quack can do; by assuring us in two or three downright words, that no such thing fell from his mouth.

I think, to say the truth, this is a pittiful Salvo.

It is just such another; when to [Page 34]excuse the Sawciness of some mens Pray­ers, he pertly and confidently replies, I know Nothing to the Contrary, but that your Ministers do miscarrry in their Prayers as oft or oftner than the N. C. do Pag. 97., and then he hath done the feat, and set them as straight as an Arrow. As if I should say, I know nothing to the contrary but that Philagathus his wife beats or scratches him every day, and makes him wish himself a Batchelour again, though never so stale.

I beseech you throw away this Vial of Balsam, which is no bette [...] than a Tar-box, and very much offen [...] me.

And will never heal, you should have added, his Error about St. Davi [...], who, do what he can, was not the [...] that killed Goliah, but a younger an [...] lesser Saint than St. Patrick. He mu [...] find some other Drug to cure Ignoranc [...] or Distraction of Mind: and he wa [...] certainly then in some such raving fit [...] that, wherein he met with Pontius P [...] ­late, and took him for a Believer. Nay he was in good earnest; and brings [...] ­ny arguments to prove that he had [...] real and strong perswasion that Christ [...] the Son of God, and Saviour of the World Page 65, 66. [Page 35]Do you hear, saith he, you the Author of the Friendly debate, who have been Preaching two years (as hath been said Pag. 121.,) why men should believe. Do you know what a Believer is? Have you learnt to understand your Creed? I will prove that Pontius Pilate was as good a Believer as any you will make, according to your Doctrine. To this purpose he dreamt in that fit.—

But he hath rub'd his eyes, you must know, since that, and sees he was mistaken Preface, p. 35..

Are the Ordeal, the hot Coulters, the Plough-shares, the Noli me tangere's, and all the dangerous things he speaks of Pag. 2. of the Book. vanished too.

Yes, they are shier gone: He fears them not, for they were only in his imagination Pag. 37. of the Preface..

Then he begins to come to him­self, as Don Quixote did before he died: and though he be as yet but half awake, (for he only remembers that he some­where asserted Pilate to be a Believer, he cannot tell well where) yet he may in time recover his perfect senses, and re­cant all that he hath said: Especially if some friend will be at the pains to rouze him; as, I have reason to believe that he [Page 36]was beholden for this little illumination, to some honest Sancho or other: who alway talkt more soberly than Don, and would never believe the Windmill to be a G [...]ant, nor the innocent Muttons to be monstrous devouring Pagans, coming to fight against the Christian Fa [...]th. When the Enchantment is fi­n [...]shed, it is to be hoped he may be in as good a mind; and so we will leave him, and prosecute his innumerable fol­lies no [...]urther.

You will do him and me too I gre [...]t kindness: for I am weary of it.

But if some School-boy about the Town should take the toy in his head, to finish th [...] History, How can I help it? Or if some young Preshman in the U­niversity shall take him to task, and be­labour him as the Yanguesian Carrien did D [...]n Quixete with their Trunche­ons, in the Vale of Pack-staves; or toss him in a Blanket, as, the Play-some Clothiers did Sancho, till mere weari­ness constrain'd them to give over: he must thank [...]self for it, who would neers [...]e so bo [...] [...], and play with words [...] manner, that it would [...] the Posterior's of a Lad [...] Kings School at Westminster, who [Page 37]should be caught at such despicable sport.

I hope you will be so civil as not to set any young Wag upon his back.

No indeed, I love not the sport so well. But if he continue at it, or any other imitate him; then I would desire that gentle Youth, who shall entertain us with the History of such adventures, that when he sets before us the Onions, the Anchoves & other Sauces, which Phi­lag. commends Pag. 50., he by no means forget the Parsnips Pag 52. Private person, ex­pect some Sawce, as might be Parsnips; yet such windy things must be eaten temperate­ly by N.C. for fear of such Cracks as you are, that will publish them with an ill re­port.: a rare kind of sauce, which hath this admirable property; that if they be eaten by Non Conformists, and prove windy in their Guts; the Conformists shall crack and stink for them.

Foh! I doubt he will jerk him terribly for this conceit.

I have a fancy comes into my mind of a more proper punishment for him.

What should that be?

The same which the Cavalier del F [...]bo suffered when he was taken in a snare.

I understand you not.

A secret Author, of no small cre­dit, tells us, that they gave him a Cly­ster of Snow-water and Sand; which made such work in the poor Knights [Page 38]entrails, that it had gone very ill with him, had he not been succoured in that great distress, by a wise man, and his ve­ry great Friend:

He being a Doctor, can cur [...] himself. But I pray for my sake pass by these things, the Bull, the Calf, the Milch-Cow, the Dairy and all the rest Preface, p. 28. and Book, p. 30..

There, he would tell you, lies the very Cream of the Jest.

I beseech you, let Cream and Cheese go too; and now look upon hi [...] as a sound man, that is restored to his right understanding again.

I have done: and wish with all my heart he may never hear more of this from any body else.

If you have done, and will be serious, I will ask you a few Questions, which, me-thinks, concern you very much.

Let's hear them. You shall se [...] how solemn and composed I will be.

You cannot deny but that he discourses very orderly sometimes, and its thought hath touched you to the quick. What say you, Do you not feel your self sore with the wounds he hath given you?

You begin to be pleasant, now that I have done.

I think you have infected me a little; but I intend to propound some things very soberly to your considera­tion, wherein he is said to have confu­ted you: hoping you will give me as sober an Answer.

I promise you to consider every thing as gravely and as impartially as I can; to answer you also without any puns, which he calls jests, in which I dare not vie with him. And, to speak plainly, it is a thing much below me; besides, that his wit is so despicable, as I told you, that there are boys of 17. and of no great parts neither, who are much su­periour to him. I will endeavour al­so to speak pertinently to the business, and not ramble as he doth. We will have no great Volume neither, for I know he can write Books with most men for a Wager: A Martyrology See Pag. 237.: I make no Question, as big as Mr. Fox's, and that in a short time, and with no mean shew of Learning. For as for the Stories; it is but taking up all the Reports he meets withal in the Streets, and sending Messengers to all the Cof­fee-houses, and Letters into all parts for [Page 40]the Country Tales, and that work is dis­patcht. And then for a shew of Learn­ing there is nothing need be done (as a Friend of the Author of D. Quixotes History told him) but only to bob into the Book some Latine Sentences, which he knows already by rote, or may ea­sily get without any labour. As for example, when he Treats of Liberty and Thraldom, he may cite that, Non bene pro toto libertas venditur auro; (You understand it, I suppose, or at least be­lieve it is Scholar-like.) If he have oc­casion to mention Death, he may have recourse to that, pallida mors aequo pulsat pede, &c. A notable sentence, and very well known ever since Horace his days. If of the inconstancy of Friends, Ovid is at hand with his Distich, Donec eris faelix, multos &c. If of Love, He is ready to befriend him with his Hei mi­hi quod millis, &c. I need not recite the rest, nor tell you that there is an honest Book called the Grammar, that will furnish him with Diruit, aedificat, &c. and an hundred more such like ra­rities. As for other lesser shreds and bits every School-boy hath them at his fingers ends: The common phrases also (as ad nauseam usque, &c.) they are [Page 41]so familiar with this Author, and he hath contracted such an acquaintance with them, that they will all run to him at an hours warning, and will leave me never an one to assist me. Therefore I shall of my own accord wave them all, and desire them to stand by, or go in­to whose service they please; intending to shift as well as I can without them. Now what have you to say? I am not only a single person, as you see, but quite naked and disarm'd of all those weapons wherewith he is so well ap­pointed; so that you may hope to pre­vail, if Truth cannot defend me. And that I protest Is the thing I will contend for, not for Victory.

Come on then: Say well, and do well. How can you defend so much as the Title of your Book? Are you a friend to those whom you cannot endure within five mile of you Pag. 4 of his Book.; but urge the Law against them?

You have answered your self, and and would have called him carnal, I am sure, should One of us have askt you such a Question. Do you that are so Spiritual understand no other kindness but what is done to your Bellies? I love you so well, that I would have you In­nocent; [Page 42]and am such a Friend to you that I desire to see you at the widest di­stance from any sin.

Pray stay Sir; your kindness is much suspected. If I should propose some such question to you as Christ di [...] to Peter. Simon lovest thou me? you dur [...] not say, thou knowest I love thee Ib..

No indeed.

Did not I tell you so.

I think I may conclude withou [...] any offence, that you are not yet s [...] knowing, as to search the heart. You [...] Philag. indeed supposes our very souls li [...] open to you; else, why doth he ende [...] ­vour to satisfie me Preface, pag. 1., that he doth n [...] know himself to have ever received the least injury from me in deed, or word, [...] thought? But you must pardon us if we be of another mind, and cannot appea [...] to you as St. Peter did to Christ. If yo [...] will judg of us by our words, then [...] can more than say, I can protest that even those Debates were writ in kind­ness to you, and he ought to have thanked him that told you of your faults, had you any mind to amend them I protest also, that I had no respect to any particular person in that passage, which he thinks so full of deadly [Page 43]poyson P. 4. of the Book.; and therefore it was the aking of his own Tooth that made him snap at me. But why do I spend the time in such trivial things as these? The Prefaces to both my Books might have satisfied any unpassionate Reader, what my intention was. But he very fairly takes no notice of them, least they should have made him throw away a great deal of the civil languge he had to bestow upon me. And for as good a reason, I make no doubt, he over-lookt the Con­tinuance of our Debate, because it would have undone a good part of his Book, which is there already answered As about the non­execution of Laws; sharpness, scandal, and many more too long to number..

I must not let you pass thus with the Reputation of good Nature. It was not kindly done of you, to bring in the N. C. uttering such words as make the King to be a Tyrant P. 8. of his Book..

As imply you should have said. But I pray tell me, What shall be done to this false tongue'd Philagathus, who tells us in another place very boldly, that I bring in the N. C. speaking Treason, even saying, that the King is a Tyrant? Will you never leave this Trade of Lying?

You must pass by that.

If he had not told the world an hundred Lies more, I should not have [Page 44]taken notice of [...]t. As to the thing he charges me withal; I did but set down those words, which more besides me have often heard, and supposing they were rashly spoken, without considera­tion of what they implyed, let them go with that Confession. What greater Candor could he desire? and what reason was there for his pains to excuse the N. C. from judging the King a Ty­rant? save only that he was glad to snatch an opportunity to praise, as well as be could, the mercy and clemency of his Majesty towards them. But I be­lieve I shall make him wish he had held his tongue, and spared his ill-savour'd and ill-contrived Rhetorick. For first [...] only tells us that the Sober Non-Con­f [...]rmists [...]refar from thinking the King a Tyrant Ib. p. 8.. It seems there are some so mad [...] and desperate as to be of the con­trary opinion. And how many who can tell? or what may be the issue o [...] [...]t?

For the love of God, be not severe against that slip. Or let the Sober men make an amends for their defects: [...] it is possible they love his Majesty more than you.

And it is possible they may not [Page 45]love him at all. Was there ever such a wretched Orator to plead any mans cause in so great a matter as this? Would any man of wit have apologiz'd for his Friends with his, it may be's, it is possible, for any thing I can tell, and such like words with which his Book a­bounds?

Whatever his words are, he doubts not, as you may see, but that N. C. have a greater Sense of his Majesties mercy than C.

Why so?

Because they have been so great offenders.

Did ever any man hear such Rea­sons? Do we find, that they to whom much is forgiven commonly love very much? Are there no ungrateful wretch­es in the world? Or, Hath it not been the constant complaint, that the most are insensible or forgetful of benefits? And doth not one refusal of mens de [...]es often blot out the memory of all former grants of grace and favour?

You forget our Saviours words which he quotes.

As he doth a number of other Scriptures nothing to the p [...]pose. Th [...]y to whom much is forgiven, will [...]e much, [Page 46]if they be truly penitent, as that woman in the Gospel was; but, Who shall an­swer for all these mens Repentance, and that it is never to be repented of?

Come, let this alone.

But pray let us see, whether this very man do not say those things, which plainly strike him out of the number of the Sober N. C.

Will you make him say, or im­ply the King is a Tyrant?

You shall hear. How can they be Martyrs and killed all the day long, and the King be free from that imputation [...] Do they suffer any thing but according to the Laws? And whose are the Law [...] I beseech you, but the Kings? Can the Parliament make Laws, or any body else, but only the Sovereign? See no [...] how this rash and desperate man hath intangled himself! To say the Laws are tyrannical, he confesses, is Treason or next to it, because it implies the King to be [...] Tyrant, page 8. And yet before he hath done, he says in effect, they are tyra [...] ­nical; When he tells us the N. C. d [...] think that they, or some of them have been Martyrs by us, and are until now kille [...] all the day long, nay crucified by us V. Pag. 229, 230.. And [Page 47]that it were no difficult thing to write a doleful Martyrology of their sufferings, and such as it may be would make my heart to ake P. 231.. Would not a stranger think if he read this, that they lived in some Dio­clesians days? Doth he not write, as if some Pagan Prince, as furious as Ali­famfaron, reigned over us, in whose days there are so many Martyrs as would make a Volume? Nay, whose cruelty is so monstrous, that he prolongs their torments, and will not dispatch them quickly?

Pray do not make your advan­tage of the word Martyrs, he only means sufferers for their Consciences, as he tells you in the place last cited.

Why then doth he use that word, if it be not to procure glory to you, and hatred to us? Cannot he speak in safer Language that needs none of his Expo­sitions? And what do you think the People understand by it, in whose mouth he first puts these phrases of Martyrs and Martyrologies, and then at last tells them in Latine, what may be excepted against them? What doth he himself mean, when he tells of such suf­ferers as are killed all the day long? or, How shall the King avoid being thought [Page 48]another Pharaoh, if, as he supposes they are in an House of bondage P. 148.? In­somuch that, as he tells us, with open mouth, both King and Parliament are clamour'd upon up and down the Nation for undoing the Families of many hundreds of godly Ministers P. 236.. Is not this a Sober Non-conformist; and a most excellent Apologist for his Brethren? I pitty him with all my soul, and wish I knew how to Apologize for him. The most that I can say is, that these are words of course, wherewith you were wont to rail in former times, and he hath not yet forgotten the old language. We re­joyce, said the General Assembly Letter of the Gen. Assembly to the As­sembly of Divines, August, 1643., That Christ at last hath created a new thing in that Land, in calling together, not as be­fore, a Prelatical Convocation to be Task­masters over the people of the Lord, but an Assembly of godly Divines, minding the things of the Lord. And the Indepen­dents said the same to these godly Di­vines, or rather made them worse than those ungodly Egyptian Bishops.—

Pray forbear such odious words.

Can you make any other Con­struction of what they write? but as I was saying, the Independents upbraided [Page 49]them, Tolera­tion justi­fied, in Answ. to the Lon­don Mini­sters Let­ter to the Assembly, 1646. that they could not rest satis­fied with being free as their Brethren, but laboured to become Lords over them; which is just, said they, as if the Israelites after the Egyptian bond [...]ge had become Taskmasters in the land of Canaan one to another. But that it is more in them, who have been better instructed by our Sa­viour to d [...] to others, as they would that o­thers should do to them. Thus you talk [...] in time past, and if you had forgotten this Language, we would never have re­membered it now. But since it is still at your tongues end, and you perswade one another you are still in an house of Bondage; we must desire you to be more reverend to your Sovereign, and use him a little better than you do your fellow Subjects.

Doth not he acknowledge his clemency and benignity; and call him upon that score, the breath of our nostrils so far forth as we breathe, or hope to breathe in a free air?

If you read his words, he hath so many limitations, that they spoil all. They account him, saith he, in that respect to be, as it were, the breath of their nostrils, so far forth as they breathe or hope to breathe in a free [Page 50]air. Would to God he would go to School somewhere, and learn to speak plainer, or rather to hold his tongue. For this, and some other things, make many suspect that all these fair words are but like Mercuries Pipe to lull Ar­gus asleep. If you breathe not in a free air, or if you have not hope of it, if he be not kind to you, and do not as yo [...] would have him; then away goes the breath of your nostrils in a whi [...], according to this Writer. And I must tell you, that notwithstanding all the Clemency he here talks of and seems to be thank­full for, he plainly affirms before [...] concludes that there are those out o [...] whose heads this conceit can hardly be beaten, That they had never enjoyed t [...] peace they have, but that God gave us tr [...] ­ble and interruption by the Plague, Fire, an [...] Sword Pag. 122., an [...] he adds; But a word to [...] wise. You understand his mind, its like better than I, who can make no sens [...] of it but this; That they are behold [...] to Plague, Fire, and Sword, not to his M [...] ­jesty for the peace they have enjoyed.

You make very harsh Inte [...] ­pretation: sure no body hath [...] thoughts.

This is no new thing, but it ha [...] [Page 51]of old been the way of such dissatisfied people to seek how they might work upon our distress: and then, notwith­standing all their good words, to pretend a necessity they should be favour'd. Thus, I remember, in Queen Elizabeths days, they made long Discourses, to shew how they prayed for her Majesty in the business of 88. though, as Dr. Sut­cliff Answer to a certain Libel Sup­plicatory, &c. Print­ed 1592. pag. 54. replyed, their tumultuous praying and prating in those times did rather dis­courage than incourage any. And then at that very time did Martin frame his se­ditious Libels, and then others preached seditious Sermons; nay, Martin senior professed that when the Enemy was rea­dy to assail us, there were an hundred thousand hands ready to subscribe the Supplication of the P [...]ritans at home. Which, saith he, in good policy (we being in fear of outward force) might not be de­nyed nor discouraged.

No more of Martin, I entreat you. We had too much of him the last time, and indeed have too much of this.

He may thank himself, who, like Chaucer's Cook, would needs be busie where he needed not, taking much pains for which neither side will think them­selves beholden to him. The Obser­vation [Page 52]of Solomon should have been re­membred by him, which might have kept him from medling with things he could not manage; That as a thorn goes into the hand of a Drunkard, so is a Pa­rable in the mouth of a Fool, Prov. 26.9. For a Drunkard, (saith a famous per­son Bishop of Galloway in his De­fence, 1614. Pag. 32.) taking a thorn into his hand to strike his neighbour, hurts himself with it; and a fool pierces himself with the words wherewith he thinks to prick others.

It is thought he hath prickt you to the quick in his next exception, a­gainst your Exposition, of the Demonstra­tion of the Spirit and of Power.

I have heard indeed, that many of you think, he hath foil'd me there; nay, given me a deadly wound that cannot be healed. Alas! Good men. I pitty his Ignorance, very much, and their cre­dulity. If bold Bayard (to use the words of a learned Prelate Bishop White Answer to a name­less Pam­phlet, 1637. Pag. 18.) were armed with David's spirit and fortitude, who could stand before him? But if h [...] whole strength consist in wording and facing only, What can it avail an Ape to concei [...] himself to be as strong as a Lyon? Though he make a shew, and fall on, as if be would tear all in pieces; he will foo [...] [Page 53]discover his weakness, when you come to grapple with him. I will close with him therefore, if you please, and try the force of this confident Gentleman. And I will pass by his mis-representing my words, because it is a thing so usual with him, that he must have a pardon for it of course.

He will never believe it, un­less you shew it, at least now that you first charge it on him.

If you will have it so, then ob­serve that he tells you, Pag. 9. I doubt that Minister is not spiritually inlightned, who expounds those words otherwise than of the wonderful gifts of the Holy Ghost. Which is false; for I speak there P. 5. of Fr. De­bate. of some other words of the Apostle, viz. the spirits searching the deep things of God which the natural man cannot discern. But, though it be a bad Omen to stumble on the very Threshold; yet, this is a trifle in com­pare with the rest that follows. For first there is not one of those Authors he cites, as far as I can discern (except the first whom we will examin by and by) who understands by Power any thing else than the gift of Miracles: and that was the thing I am there speaking of (though he, as his manner is, slips it [Page 54]over) Powerful, not Spiritual Preach­ing. By Spirit, indeed, some Interpreters understand something else besides the rest of extraordinary gifts which I men­tioned.

Why do you say some, the stream of Interpreters runs contrary to you.

I know he saith so, p. 10. and it is a remarkable instance of his ignorant boldness. For where, I pray you, doth this stream begin? If you go up toward the Spring-head (if I may so speak) and follow the stream all along from the Apostles time (as high as we can find it) the current will prove to be against him. But his stream begins at Peter Martyr, who is the most ancient Writer that he hath perused. An excellent person in­deed; but we ought not to go to him as the Fountain of our Knowledge, not think our selves learned when we can alledg his Authority. For this will be to make our selves as ridiculous as T.W. who P [...]eaching about the Day of Judg­ment, thus concludes his use of Perswa­s [...]on to Christians to believe this Truth. Peter M [...]rtyr tells us, That some of the Heathen Poets have written, that there are certain Judges appointed (Minos, Rada­manthus, [Page 55] and others) to examine and pu­nish offenders after this life Morning Exercise Methadi­sed, Serm. 25. p. 615. 1660.. Whereby I perceive Peter Martyr is the top of these two mens learning, both for the Ancient Truth, and the ancient Fables. And yet I believe T. W. is not well skilled in Peter Martyr, but added his others of his own head; for we never read but of one judge more, whose name, if you will know it, was Aeocus: And before I have done, I shall make this man also as sick of Peter Martyr, as he was when he vomited (save in your pre­sence) in my very face.

But what say you to Dr. Featly, who leads up the front of the battle?

I see his Name, but where shall I find his words?

In the Assemblies Annotations on the Bible.

The Authors of those, he tells us not without a brag, were N.C. p. 55. Now I am sure the Doctor was none: and therefore either here or there he hath overshot himself. I am afraid he will fall in love hereafter with that Fi­gure which is so odious to him; and if you please, we will allow him the be­nefit of it, and let him make himself whole, with one of his hard words, call'd [Page 56] Synecdoche Let us here what Dr. Featly says.

He preached so, that his Do­ctrine wrought powerfully in the hearts of his Hearers. This he gives us for the Apostles meaning.

But second thoughts are usually better than the first, and he immediately adds (which this man suppresses) or, by the Demonstration of the Spirit and Power, he means the evident Confirmation of his Doctrine by the gifts of the Holy Ghost, and the signs and wonders which he wrought among them. And this indeed is the an­cient Exposition, to which he was pleased to Preface with that of some of the mo­dern Writers. For Origen—

Will you take no notice of Do­cto. Hammond whom he also quotes?

There is no need, if, as this man tells us, his Exposition be the same with [...]igen's: unless it be to shew how lame­ly [...]e reports it. For his Opinion is, that by the Demonstration of the Spirit may be meant, not only the proof of Christian Religion from the old Pro­phecies (which, I must tell you, was by an infallible Spirit bestowing an extra­ordinary gift, call'd Prophesying, and mention'd by me in my short Para­phrase) [Page 57]but also the descent of the Spi­rit on our Saviour at his Baptism ac­companied with the voice from Hea­ven, together with the Spirits descend­ing afterward on the Apostles, and by their Imposition of hands on others al­so. This together with the power of doing Miracles, he tells you, may be lookt up­on as the Demonstration of the Truth of the Gospel, and be the thing that is here meant. I can see therefore no difference between him and me. As for Origen, I shall go for his Opinion only to him­self. And I remember very well that he tells us, over and over again, there is a Demonstration belonging to the Christi­an Religion, which is proper and peculi­ar to it self: A Demonstration more Divine (as he speaks Lib. 1. contra Celsum.) than that of the Greeks by Logick and Syllogistical Discourse (in other places he adds, or by Rhetorick) and it is this which the Apostle calls the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power. Of the Spirit by Prophecies which were suf­ficient [...], &c.to work faith in him that met with them, especially in those things which con­cern Christ: and of Power, by the pro­digious, and astonishing works; which were certainly done, as appears from this Argu­ment among many others, that there are [Page 58]some footsteps of them remaining among those who live according to the Will of the Word. Where by Prophesie, if you under­stand barely the ancient Scriptures, it is plain they were not sufficient to work faith in those that met with them, who were first to be perswaded by other means to belive them to be Divine Revelations. And therefore it is most reasonable to comprehend under that word, the New Revelations, or the Infallible Spirit of Prophesying in the Apostles, interpre­ting the holy Prophets in any Language whatsoever; which accompanied with Miracles and all the other gifts, was a Demonstration beyond all other of the truth of their Doctrine. If we look fur­ther into him, we shall better understand him; for in the third Book against Cel­sus Pag. 152. Edit. Cantabr., he repeats the same again, and more plainly than before. The Preach­ing, saith he, at the first founding of Christian Religion was with a [...]. power of perswading and bowing mens hearts, but not such an one, as was among those that professed the wisdom of Plato, or any other men who had no more than Hum [...]ne Nature. But [...]. the demonstra­tion by the Apostles of Jesus, being given from God, was credible by the Spirit and [Page 59]Power: by which means their word, or ra­ther Gods, ran speedily and swiftly. And again in the beginning of the Sixth Book. Alledg­ing the same words. It is not sufficient that the thing is true, and worthy of credit, which is spo­ken, unless there be a certain power given from God to him that speaks, &c. which consisted not in meer words sure, but in deeds; the Spirit of God working in the hearers hearts by the means of those miraculous gifts. You may find this place cited twice more in his Philoca­lia Cap. 1. & Cap. 4., where he expounds it to be a Cae­lestial, or rather Supercaelestial power, whereby their Preaching was demonstrated to be true. All this makes it plain, that he understood the word Demonstration in a proper sense, for an evident proof of Christian Religion, and that it was no­thing else but the Supercaelestial gifts wherewith they were endowed. And by this you may see I had some ground for my confidence, having observed these things long before I wrote my Book. But if you proceed further to S [...]. Chryso­stom, he contracts the sense, and deter­mines the words wholly to Miracles. Tell me, saith he, who is there, that see­ing the dead rise, the Devils driven out, would not receive the faith? but because [Page 60]there are cheating Wonders (as those of Jug­lers) St. Paul removes this suspicion; for he doth not simply say Power, but first the Spirit, then Power: signifying that the things which were done were spiritual Beza follows this Expo­sition, ma­king Spi­rit and Power, one thing ex­pressed by two words; so Estius also among the Papists.. Oecumenius writes to the same purpose; and Theodoret plainly makes them both one. The Wonder-working of the Spirit [...].witnessed to the Preaching: and the Apo­stle most appositely joyned with the weak­ness of their suffering condition, the Power of the Spirit. And so St. Hierom, He would not dispute with them, least they should think he came to teach them some new Phi­losophy, but he shewed them Wonderful Works and Miracles. To whom you may add St. Ambrose; ‘Since foolish things, saith he, dressed up with words (though weak in virtue) appear as if they were wise; God would not have his Preaching commended by the Testi­mony of words, but of Power; that the foolishness of the Word (as it was judged) might demonstrate it self by the deeds of wise Men, being founded after a Spiritual Manaer.’

It will tire us to follow the stream any further, and I see already which way it runs.

I may save my self the labour, if this bold Undertaker will believe Ma­ster Calvin (whom he much commends, but cares not to imitate) who, as became a knowing and an honest man, expressly acknowledges that Most restrain these words to Miracles Demon­stratio­nem spiri­tus & pot. quam ple­ri (que) ad mi­racula re­stringunt.. Why do you shrug?

I see what is like to become of my good Friend Philagathus.

Never trouble your self. He can prove, if need be, that Most signifies few or none. Musculus indeed tells us, that this word Power in the Evangelical History, is in a manner Alway, used for Miracles: and under these two words he comprehends all that the Spirit wrought in and by the Apostles, and their Preaching. Which, methinks, is excel­lently expressed by Arias Montanus: He proved what he sa [...]. by the manifest power of the Holy Ghost given by Christ to those that believed, and by the efficacy of healings, and other Divine Signs. Nay, his great Friend Peter Martyr, whom he makes us believe he consulted, is pleased to say little less than Mr. Calvin, that there are very Many who restrain these words to Miracles and Prodigies, which Paul wrought Permul­ti sunt, qui haec ad mira­cula con­trahant & prodigia, quae Pau­lus ed [...] ­bat, &c. What he thinks of [Page 62]their opinion, you shall hear presently. Let us first hear what Face hath to say to me. The stream of Interpreters run an [...] ­ther waySober Answ p. 10.It is the sense wherein most Divines do construe it Ib.You have the confidence to oppose the body of Interpre­ters Pag. 11.; and give us an uncouth and less acknowledged Interpretation Pag. 122.: an In­terpretation that deserved not to be once mentioned in opposition to others P. 197. and pag. 279. the General current of Interpre­ters.: Brave­ly said, bold Bayard! and like a blind B. that fears no colours! Stand to [...] stoutly, and rub thy fore-head hard; for w [...]thin that skull of thine is more contain'd than in all the world beside. A whole Body of Interpreters is lodged there, which Mr. Calvin himself never saw. There is a depth of Learning, that no body knows, running in the wide Chanel of thy Brain.—

You had better have said, the wide Crack in his brain.

We have done with that merri­ment. And you may rather suspect [...] crack in his Conscience. For how durst an honest man presume to abuse the world on this fashion? Who, but a man of a debauched Conscience, would re­peat a thing so often, and with such assu­rance of which he had no competent [Page 63]knowledg? How will you excuse his Hypocrisie who commends his own Mo­deration and modesty, in this and another Book, and yet takes upon him publ [...]ckly to contradict and controle another without any ground? nay, to disparage him all he could, and charge him with vain confidence Sir, this vain confi­dence of yours, doth justly pro­voke me, &c. p. 11. & p. 279. bewail your per­emptori­ness, &c. and peremptoriness, when he himself had no other support, but wrote gross untruths out of his own ima­gination? Methinks he should hide his head for shame, and not appear in the open streets; unless he be of the Sect of that Philosopher in Lucian In his Sale of Philoso­phers., who professed to teach men above all things to be impudent and bold, to bark at every thing without distinction, to throw away all modesty, and blot all blus [...]ing quite out of th [...] face. For this is the Art said he, to arrive at glory in a more compendious way than by Education, Study, and such like trifles. If thou beest an Ideot, a Mason [...]r Bricklayer, it is no hindrance why thou s [...]u [...]dst not be admired, if thou hast boldness enough, and canst rail with a good grace.

He is none of those, I'le pass my word for him: though he be a little too forward.

A little too forward! very gently spoken, and like his great moderation, [Page 64]when he acknowledges any fault in his Friends. If he be capable of amend­ment, I will make him less forward, for I have not yet done with him.

You will be too tedious.

I cannot help it. I must make a thing as plain as A B C to him, or he will never see it. I pray desire him to consider where his eyes, or his honesty were, when he told us that Peter Mar­tyr and Marlorate, both do find fault with them who restrain the meaning of tha [...] place to Miracles, and speak as if they did miss the main scope and intent of the Holy Ghost in that Text Pag. 9.. Let him wash his eyes and look once more (if he ever lookt at all) into Peter Martyr, and blush—

Why should you Question his consulting P. Martyr?

Because he is so far from passing any censure on those who are of this opinion, that after he had told us, Very many restrain these things to Miracles; he adds immediately, which perhaps is not beside the truth Permul­ti sunt qui haec ad miracu­la contra­hant, &c. quod so;—tassis non est a vero alienum.. This makes me think that your forward Phil. made a shew of greater learning than he was guilty of, and that he went not so high as Peter Martyr where the [Page 65] stream is against him, and a very great one too, but contented himself with Marlo­rate alone, as if he were some Sea into which the stream of Interpreters empti­ed it self. He indeed thus reports the sense of P. Martyr, Many restrain these to Miracles, but the former sense agrees better with the purpose of Paul Permulti haec ad miracula restrin­gunt, sed prior sensus in­stituto Pauli melius quadrat.. But he ought not to have trusted this Abridger of Books, who as he tells us nothing out of St. Ambrose and Oecumenius, (which are two of the Authors he ga­thers out off, and are of a contrary mind to him) so he wrongs Peter Martyr, who doth not say, there is another sense that better agrees, &c. but only adds after the words last cited, But I more willingly take in that energy whereby the Spirit spoke through his holy breast Sed ego lubentius comple­ctor [...] quâ Spiritus, &c., &c. What think you, is this a man fit to write Books, and inform you in the truth, who takes things on trust, and at the second hand? How many things, may you justly conceive, doth he obtrude on you in the Pulpit for certain truths, which are notorious falsities, who thus in Print belies Au­thors, and runs away before he knows their sense? Nay, openly tells you, that the Most say a thing, when one of the best Expositors in the world, in the [Page 66]confession of all men They are his own words of Mr. Cal­vin, pag. 121., if you will believe himself, affirms that the Most say quite contrary.

You must consider that he wants Books, as he tells you in the Preface.

Then he ought not to have been so peremptory, as if he had read all Authors: and what he bids me do Bewail your per­emptoriness &c. speak­ing of this place, pag. 279., is become his own duty, who ought to do a severt Penance for his Presumption, his vai [...] Ostentation of Learning where he had none, and his deceiving the poor peo­ple with mere wording and facing (as was said before) against a notorious truth.

I am sorry he did not repair to some Booksellers shop, which I sup­pose, are all furnisht with Calvin, M [...]s­culus, and Peter Martyr.

How should he write such a Book in six weeks time and less, if he had been at that pains? He hath a better Shop for his purpose in his own Brains, where he can furnish himself with [...] sort of Ware, without any trouble [...] all. There are Comments and Histori [...] good store, and a certain Worm of suc [...] an admirable property, that it doth no [...] so much feed on them, as feed them an [...] ­nourish them continually. And the truth is, I do not see what good those [Page 67]Authors, you mention, would have done him, had he gone to consult them. For either he is so giddy-headed, or loves so much to pervert mens sense, that he scarce ever conceives any thing aright, but abuses others as well as me. Marlo­rate himself cannot find fair dealing with him, who speaks in milder terms than he, as you have seen; and being but a reporter of other mens sense, ought not to have been alledged at all distinct from them. But he had a mind to make a noise with as many learned Names and words as he could find, having little else to credit himself withal. For why, I beseech you, did he give us Eras­mus his gloss on the place (if you can believe him) in Latine only, when all the rest is English? For my part, I be­lieve he could not construe his words, nor understand the true meaning of them, but put them in to vapour with­al. You may know, if you please, that they are not his gloss upon the place, but only upon one word, not at all to our business. For they are not in his Paraphrase, but in his Annotations, where he is not expounding the words, Spirit and Power, but that, which we render Demonstration: which he would not have [Page 68]so translated; but, with the Vulgar, Ostension, or rather Ostentatien, i.e. shew­ing and declaring, Paulus [...] [...] dec [...]t [...]tur Spiritus Apostoli­cus. so the Apostle calls it. [...]aith he, For as much as the Apostolical Spirit is in the thing it self represented and [...]e [...]tared. What is this to his purpose? I [...]ake [...]o doubt he himself could not tell, but, to make a vain shew of Learning, down it went without any meaning.

Pray English it for us.

So I have; and this is the meaning, as far as I can judg, that the Spirit of the Apostles was sufficiently shewn and made manifest by it self; and there need­ed no other proof to declare it to be Di­vine. Which makes so much to my pur­pose (for how could it shew it self to mens satisfaction, but by the Miraculous gifts?) that if he had understood it, he would have thrown it away. And let it stand aside, if you will; for another rea­son which he might have found in Beza, an ordinary Book, who confutes this Ex­position of the word [...]. as not apposite to the place; it properly signifying, saith he, a proof which renders a thing evident, or demonstrates it from certain and neces­sary reasons. Such were the Supernatu­ral gifts of the Holy-ghost: But the making men of our belief, and perswa­ding [Page 69]them to receive what we say, is no certain and necessary proof, that we speak nothing but the Truth. No man can affirm that, who considers any thing; and therefore the Apostle speaks of such a sensible demonstration or proof; as I mentioned, without which they could not know certainly that there was a Di­vine Spirit in the Apostles. So the word is plainly expounded, Act. 2.22. Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved [...] denu [...] [...]a­ted to you to be ofamong you, by Miracles, Wonders and Signs, which God did by him, &c. From whence I go­ther, that the thing whereby he approved himself to them, or demonstrated he was of God; was the very same whereby the Apostles demonstrated his Religion, viz. Miracles, Wonders and Signs; all the gifts of the Holy Ghost.

But do not the Dutch Annota­tors expound it otherwise.

They seem to understand by Spi­rit, the secret operation of the Spirit in mens hearts, though by Power the same that I do. In which they follow Eras­mus in his Paraphrase: and Theophylact hath something to the same effect, though he presently betake himself to the In­terpretation of St. Chrysostom before named. But how an inclination to be­lieve [Page 70]a thing, or a perswasion wrought in me of it, should be a Demonstration, i. e. a proof that the thing is true which I am perswaded of, or inclined unto, is, as I told you, past my understanding. And therefore having such good com­pany, I shall believe, notwithstanding all his barking, that they were the ex­traordinary visible effects of the Spirit either in our Saviour or his Apostles, or others who believed, which were the Demonstration, by the means of which the Holy Ghost convinced the under­standings, and bowed the wills of unbe­lievers to become Christians.

I thought Grotius only had be [...] on your side: and Philagathus tells us, he perceives, if Grotius be for you, as [...] it were God himself, you are ready to say who shall be against youPag. 10.. As if y [...] were bound to swear whatsoever Grotius Ib. saith.

I remember his words; and they are another notable Demonstration of the Hypocritical modesty, that is, the shameless boldness of this man, who will venture to say any thing, merely out of his own head, which he thinks may disgrace me; and indeavour without any proof, to make the world believe, [Page 71]that I pin my Faith on Grotius his sleeve, and make him in stead of a God. This he repeats I cannot tell how often, (as he shall hear anon with a witness) and, I will repeat it too, only out of that great forge, where the rest of his Book was wrought, his own imagination. For I protest sincerely, it is more than I know, if that be his Interpretation which I gave you: nor did I in all my life, to my best remembrance, consult with him about it. Though, I must tell you, if I had; I should in Mr. Bax­ter's judgment have consulted one of the five most judicious Commentators that ever wrote on the Scriptures Beza, Grotius, Pilcator, Musculus, Deodat, Five of the most judicious Commenta­tors, I think, that ever wrote on the sacred Scriptures. Second Postscript. af [...]er his Disput. about Right to the Sacra­ments, p. 539.. But as judicious as he is, in his opinion, I would have you know that I would ne­ver have followed him, without more reason than his bare affirmation. The naked truth is, that the very propriety of the words, and the drift of the Apo­stles discourse carried me, without any help, to this Exposition. Spirit every body knows who hath studied signifies commonly extraordinary gifts. If he will not be at the pains to examine it, I will quore him an Autority for it, which he often vaunts of; and that is Ma­ster Baxter: who tells you, that he who [Page 72]will observe carefully the language of the Holy Ghost, shall find this word, Spirit, or Holy Ghost, is most usually in the New Te­stament taken for the extraordinary gifts of that Age Vnrea­sonableness of Infide­lity. p. 12.. As for the word Power you heard what Musculus said. But beside, I have noted in my small Observation, that when our Saviour was sent into the World, he was anointed with the Holy Ghost and with Power, Acts 10.38. and that he told his Apostles, as the Father sent him, so he would send them, Joh. 20.21. From whence I concluded that they were to be anointed also with the Holy Ghost (or the Spirit) and with Power, as he had been. And so they were; for as at his Baptism the Spirit of God de­scended on him like a Dove (Mat. 3.16.) so on the day of Pentecost, which was the day of their Baptism (Acts 1.5.) they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, prophesying and speaking with tongues (as the Spirit gave them utterance) and presently working a great Miracle upon the Creeple, and with great power giving witness of his Resurrection See Act. 2. v. 4.17.25. Act 3. v 2 &c. Act. 4. v. 33.. This I thought was the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power, whereby our Lord was approved and demonstrated in his life time to be the Son of God; [Page 73]and by which afterward they proved his Resurrection from the dead, and so the Truth of his Religion. Spirit I take to comprehend, the gift of Tongues, Pro­phesie, Interpretation of Tongues, and all the rest, except doing Miracles, which in Scripture is called by the name of Power. Thus I observe they are distin­guished, Gal. 3.5. He that ministreth the Spirit, and worketh Miracles among you, doth he it by the works of the Law? &c. where all gifts besides Miracles are cal­led the Spirit. And the Author to the Hebrews saith, that God did bear wit­ness to the Apostles Preaching, both with Signs, Wonders, and divers Miracles, and also with Gifts or Distributions of the Holy-Ghost according to his own will. These, and such like considerations were suffi­cient to perswade me to incline to that sense of the words which I gave you. But when I attended to the scope of the Apostles discourse, I had no doubt left in me: nothing so well agreeing with it (whatsoever this man prates) as that Interpretation. For the Spirit and Power is that which proved the Truth of the Apostles Preaching better than any Syllogisms, or artificial Orations could do, which he therefore calls a [Page 74] Demonstration, in opposition to those ways of perswasion which deserved not that name. Now what should that be which was the Reason and Cause of Be­lief; Since it is certain, the Spirit did not inwardly perswade men to believe without any reason? Could some me [...] belief of the Doctrine prove, that others ought to believe? They might still just­ly ask, how those men came by their faith; what was the cause and groun [...] of it? If they said the Spirit perswaded them, How could they tell there was such a Spirit, or that a divine power wrought in them, unless they saw it by its effects, which were the Demonstra­tion to Unbelievers? If you say, it was known by the change of mens lives, the exception against that, as no sufficient proof of Christianity, is, because many who believed were not throughly chan­ged, but still lived ungodlily, even i [...] the Corinthian Church: There was some change also wrought in several men by mere Philosophers; and among the Jews, before the Preaching of Christ, there were many very good men and women. If by Spirit, you will at last say, is meant the ancient Prophesies, (without the extraordinary Interpreta­tion [Page 75]by the Holy Ghost, which appeared many ways to be in the Apostles) that will not do neither as you have heard, unless you will imagine the Apostles preached to the Jews only: for that would have been to alledg one unknown thing for the proof of another; and as if we should offer those for Sureties, for whose credit we need Certificates and Pledges. The Question, I say, would still have remained, How do you demonstrate those Prophesies to be Divine Revelati­ons on which we ought to rely?—

No more words. I am satisfi­ed.

And you are satisfied I hope that this is a man not worthy to be credited, and that instead of Philagathus, a name borrowed I think from Mr. Dents plain mans pathway to Heaven, he deserves to be called Antilegon; The name of another person in that Dia­logae. a meer Caviller and Contradicter, that loves to wran­gle and scold and gainsay right or wrong. The very Spirit of the ancient Sophisters whom Plato cals by that name of Contra­dicters and opposers In so­phista. [...]., & he seems to me to be such a master in the Faculty, that he can shut his eies when he pleases, and fall a quarrelling with any thing that comes in his way. But I hope after this Disco­very [Page 76]of his tolly, he will cease to prate and outface, and labour to prove what he saith: otherwise I have some hope that none who read this will give him any credit, unless it be perhaps some goslings of his own broo [...]ng They are Bp. Whites words to a nameless pamphleter. p. 118.. Be not ang y, for I assure you I have not the lea [...] spark of [...]r, nor was he able with all his scurrility to provoke me to kin­dle against him, all the time I read his Book.

You boast a little too much.

I must say it, that he and you may know how much I contemn such oppo­sers, who may provoke one to laughter, but not to anger. No not though they should be so unmannerly and clownishly despightful as this rude scholar of that Cynick Philosopher I named is, who professes to have vomited his gall, or, as he calls it, delivered his stomach in my face.

It sticks in your stomach sure, you mention it so oft.

He loves repetitions, which makes me lay it in his dish again. But, as I was going to tell you, it immediately [...] be to my mind these words of Mr. Burrough: Vindica­tion agains [...] Mr. Ed­wards. p. 3., and that was all the hurt it old me: There is an odious disease in [Page 77] Nature, casting up the excrements at the Mouth; which is no lesse noisome than dangerous, and therefore the Physicians call it, Miserere mei Deus. Thus exulce­rated minds affected with the like ma­lady in Morality, being surcharged with superfluity of choler and malice, and not able to contain, break forth into di­stemper of words, and pour it out in unsavory language; such we must leave to a miscrere; and if they will not pray of themselves, we must do it for them, and say, Lord have mercy on them. That's all I have to say about this to your cho­lerick Antilegon. And if you have a de­sire, since they say some hold him for a wit, that he should continue to dis­charge himself in this manner for the service of the cause, I am so little con­cerned about it, that you may put forth another Petition, and never trouble me, in the language which some of you used against another Gentleman; that he may have free leave and liberty to run at the Mouth (though it be not natural that ex­crements should come up stairs) as long as he pleases; to scrible still without check or controul, because as it is humbly concei­ved) all the danger of him is want of vent; and the more, he is prohibited the more per­haps [Page 78]he will do that which he is forbidd [...] by Lawful Authority; and the more [...] will think himself considerable, if opposes by them whom he rails at To the Supream Authority of the Na­tion the humble Petition of certain peaceable people against &c. 1659..

Why do you then meddle with him?

You forced me to it, by your continual talking and urging of me; o­therwise I assure you I should have de­spised him and let him alone.

I confess I had a mind to her what you could say about this Dem [...] stration of the Spirit and of Power, be­cause it was commonly said you forsoo [...] the General current of Divines in yo [...] exposition.

Just so Heshusius dealt with goo [...] Melancthon, whom he boldly accused of Blasphemy, and said, he treacherously and prophanely plaid or made sport with the Scriptures, because he preferred the most antient writers of the Church, before his Authority So Paulus Ebetus tels us in his preface be­fore his Comments on this Epistle to the Co­rinth.. And you have not forgot, I suppose, what some said of Mr. Baxter, because he left the modern opinion con­cerning the sin against the Holy Ghest, though he endeavoured to establish a better in the room of it. But if it will do them any pleasure still to bawl and make a noise, I will give my self no [Page 79]further trouble about this matter, in which I have been too long already. And therefore I will not give my self the like liberty in ripping up every one of his gross errors and vain braggs, which if I should carefully spread before your face, so that you might plainly discern them, it would make a volumn five times as big as his. Which is such a fardel of Ignorance and impudence, of disinge­nuity, spight and evill surmisings, of such false dealing, downright lying, pervertings of my meaning, wrangling without cause, vanity, presumption, a­buse of holy Scripture, idle shifts and excuses for faults, that I never yet saw the like in so great abundance in any book in my life, nor I think ever shall.

A very high charge, proceeding it will be thought from your vain-confidence and the height of your pride, for which he hath given you so many buffets.

I feel them not; nor have any thing the worse opinion of my self than I had; though I think he hath told you of my Pride an hundred times. This is no more than his predecessors in this Art of revi­ling have charged their neighbours withal, when they deserve [...] better usage. There was one, for instance, that would [Page 80]needs prove from Mr. Baxters writings (as this man labours to do from mine) that he was hypocritically proud. So he himself tells us Appen­dix to the 5 Disp. of right to the Sacra­ments. p. 484. Preface be­fore his Confession of Faith., and you shall have my answer at present in his words. I will by the help of God search my heart for this sin of pride, and desire him to do the like, and see that he be well acquit from usurping Gods prerogative, and from slandering his Brother. 2. How came I to be so unhappy that only those that know me not load me with this charge, and never any of my Brethren told me of it to my face? 3. It will be worth such mens labour to search how much pride may lie in their impatience of Contradicti­on; and being such, that a man knows not how to speak to them, for fear of being con­tume [...]ious in withdrawing or not giving them the honour they expect. I remember h [...] St. Austin excused a friend of his to a man of such a Spirit, and with a fear least after all his caution he should seem contumelious himself in that Apology. I hear thou complainest of Memoratus a Brother that he answered something contumeli­ously to thee, which I beseech thee not to account a reproach: When as I am certain that it did not proceed from a proud M [...]nd. For I know that Brother of mine; if he speak any thing with [Page 81]greater fervency for his Faith, and for the Charity of the Church than thy gravity would willingly hear, that is not to be called contumely, but confi­dence and assurance of the tru [...] of what he said. For he [...]esired to reason and confer, not to fawn and flatter. In such a confidence, which I feel still un­shaken in my mind after all his batteries; I will proceed, take it [...]ow he please, to make good my charge: by giving only some notorious instances of all those things, and several others, as they oc­cur to my thoughts; For we need not drink up all the Sea to know that it is salt, as Irenaus speaks; nor is it fit to trouble the world with too long a discourse a­bout one mans follies. And if you please we will begin with his Ignorance.

It will be a very ungrateful discourse.

Not more to you than to me, who heartily wish there were a way of cu­ring Ulcers without unripping them first and laying them open. But I look upon this man as so empty, and yet so confident and self-conceited, that there is no way to do him good, but by lay­ing him naked before himself. And I doubt not also but to make my discourse [Page 82]very profitable to others who will give it the hearing; for he that corrects one may mend an hundred.

Proceed then.

You have had some tast already of his skill. St. Taffee will be a witness of it as long as he lives. But to take him down still lower, and keep him from medling hereafter with things beyond his reach, I shall give you a more full demonstration of his Ignorance, and make it manifest that, of a Scholar, he is the worst Horseman that ever bestrid a Book (you will give me leave to al­lude to his own Rhetorick) having rid himself clean out of the saddle▪ And since Divinity seems to be h [...] prime Profession, we will begin with [...] principal point of it; and that is justi­fying Faith and good works. Abo [...] which things he tells us how excellent­ly Mr. p. 18. Baxter hath wrote: and be­cause he hath done so well, imagine they are all sound in those points. Whe [...] as he himself, good man, either do [...] not know what Mr. Baxter saith, [...] else is not of his Mind. From whence conclude that a man may as easily be [...] Antinomian, and not know it (whatsoeve [...] he saith to the contrary) as he ho [...] [Page 83]dangerous opinions about Faith, and not know it.

What are they? I know none.

He tells you not only what his own, but what the N. C. opinion is about Ju­stification by Faith, in these words: We say, only Faith justifies as an Instrument, though not that Faith which is alone Pag. 19. Now Mr. Baxter I assure you, is none of those, but must be exempted out of his We. For there being two things which this Boldface affirms, First, that only Faith justifies; and secondly, that it justifies as an Instrument; he will say neither of them for any good, but looks on them as dangerous Positions.

You just sure, or else Phil. is in a bad case.

It is as I tell you. For to say that Faith only justifies, is to say, that God doth not say true, who tells us, we are not justi­fied by Faith only. This Mr. Baxter repeats over and over again In his Disput. of Justifica­tion and in his Letter.: but I must cite the very words, or else I fear he will wrangle. The Question is, saith he Ib. pag. 192.; in what sense we are justified by Works, and not by Faith only. You answer in a direct contradiction to St. James, say­ing, it is by Faith only. So dare not I directly say, it is not by works, when [Page 84]God saith it is: But think I am bound to distinguish and shew in what sense Works justifie, and in what not, and not to say flatly against God, that we are not justified by works under any notion, but only by the Faith that works Which is Philag. his Assertion.. A denial of Gods assertions is an ill expounding of him.

This I confess is plain.

He speaks as home to the other part, and not only denies that Faith ju­stifies as an Instrument Confess. of Faith, p. 88, 89., but saith, it is besides, nay, against the Scripture, to say that Faith justifies as an Instrument Ib. pag. 295.

I did not think Phil. had clasht with M. Baxter, and held Errors of such a Nature.

Nor he neither; for he doth not use to think, but only imagine. If he had read and considered his Books, he would have found, that those who say Faith justifies as a Quà In­strumen­tum, p 95.true Instrument, do most certainly make it to justifie as an acti­on of man; and in saying that it justifies as an Instrument, yet not as an Act, or by Actions, they speak most gross contradicti­on: seeing an Instrument is an Efficient Cause, and Action is the Causality of the Efficient.

I do not well understand the danger of this.

He tells you Disput. of Justifica­tion. p. 224. p. 214, 216., ‘It makes man his own justifier, or the next cause of his Justification, and by his own act to help God to justifie him: For so all Instruments do help the principal cause. And yet by a self contradiction this opinion makes Faith to be of no moral worth, and so no vertue or grace, yea (I think) it lays the blame of mans in­fidelity on God.’ For the assertors of it have a device to make it a passive In­strument, from whence follow these ab­surdities.

I will not trouble my brains about it; but I see I may omit a Question, which he asks you, viz. Do you not think that good works are the In­strumental cause of our Justification as well as Faith?

I must tell you, in brief, that all the Questions he propounds to me in that place, are such as he would ne­ver have askt; if he had but attain'd a smattering knowledg in Mr. Baxter's writings; whom he commends, just as he discommends me, without under­standing him. For he would have taught him, That neither Faith, nor any work of [Page 86]ours are causes of our Justification, either Principal or Instrumental Confess. of Faith. pag. 31. and other places. Disput. of Justific. pag. 75.

But there is one Question he asks, wherein he prays you to speak out, for it is suspected there is a Snake in your Grass.

A Maggot in his Brain.

And that is, are not Faith and Obedience, both one, and the same thing?

He hath a resolution in Mr. Bax­ter. Our first Faith is not the same with Obedience to Christ (how should it?) yet it essentially contains are solution and Covenant to obey him Confess. of Faith, p. 38, 39.. But there is no end of these impertinent Questions. You will ask me next, how I prove my self not to be a Papist?

No, I'le let the rest alone; be­cause I see what you will say: and this in­deed was not the main thing that you and I first intended to debate. Yet there are some Questions about this matter in ano­ther place, to which I would gladly have, though it be but, a brief An­swer.

Where shall we find them?

There where he comes to your description of Faith, pag. 63.

I remember the place. Where I find him in the same posture that the Bi­shop of Galloway did his Reprover; vex­ing himself with his own anger, tumbling and weltring in the puddle of his tumultu­ous thoughts, whereof he cannot rid himself; bragging most vainly, but producing nothing that may be accounted worthy of an answer Defence, pag. 169.. For I having told you that the Faith our Saviour speaks of in those words, Joh. 6.29. This is the work of God that you be­leive on him whom he hath sent (viz. ju­stifying and saving Faith) is an effectu­al perswasion that Jesus is sent of God: He very gravely tells me that I deny Faith to consist in assent or perswasion (which are the same thing) and so contradict the men of my way. Was there ever such a giddy-braind man as this set a cock-horse, who posts away without his Errand, and tells the world, I deny Faith to be an assent or perswasion, when I tell him it is? Doth he no [...] deserve to have his fingers rapt, or to be soundly scourged, that takes Pen in hand to con­fute a Book, and never minds, or else understands not what he writes against?

But you say, Faith consists not in a bare perswasion, &c.

True, That saving Faith, which I speak of, doth not consist in a bare as­sent to the Truth of the Gospel, but yet it is an assent, though it be something more. Assent is the General nature of Faith, but there is a difference between Faith that is saving, and Faith that is not saving, which I there expressed by the word effectual. And here again he blunders, and keeps a pudder to make a plain ching obscure.

You will not say it was plain sure.

Yes, but I will: though nothing can be so plain and clear, which th [...] mans confused thoughts shall not trou­ble. The difference I made between this Faith which our Saviour speaks of and a bare perswasion that he came from God, was this: that it is a perswasion of that Truth with its fruits and effects. Which I expessed in these words, be­coming his Disciples, sincere Profession of his Religion and living according to it. For unless, our minds being convinced of the Truth, it have this effect upon our wills to make us consent to obey it, and sin­cerely purpose to do according to our perswasion; and unless also, if we live, we make good this purpose, and both [Page 89]profess and perform obedience to the Gospel, we do not the work of God, which our Saviour speaks of, nor have that faith which will bring us to everlasting life. This he might have found affirm'd by Mr. Baxter in as round words as mine, if he had spent that time in reading, and meditating, which he spends in scribling. It's all one, saith he, Appen­dix to Di­sput. of Right to the Sacra­ments, p. 509. in my account to believe in Christ, and to become a Christi­an, &c. To be a believer Disput. of Justif. p. 77, 78., and to be a Di­sciple of Christ in Scripture sense is all one; and so to be a Disciple, and to be a Christian: and therefore Justifying faith comprehends all that is essential to our Discipleship, or Christianity, as its constitutive causes. To which he adds this Proposition, Those therefore who call any one act, or two, by the name of Justifying Faith, and all the rest by the name of works, and say, that it is only the act of recumbency on Christ as Priest, or on Christ as dying for us, or only the act of apprehending or accepting his imputed righteousness, by which we are justified, &c. do pervert the Doctrine of Faith and Justification; ☞and their Doctrine tendeth to corrupt the very nature of Christianity it self. I could add a great deal more with as much ease as I can write, but that I think this sufficient to be replyed to [Page 90]his long babble about the Nature o [...] Faith, and we must not suppose the world at leisure to read the same thing over perpetually. If it do not satisfie him, let him enjoy the vain conceit of his own skill; nay, let him crow over me, and bear himself with the same pertness (to use an expression I have somewhere met with) that a Daw sits cawing an [...] pecking upon a Sheeps back: He will be but a Jack Daw for all that.

You grant then, that there may be a perswalion where it is not effe­ctual.

Who doubts of it? But it is not saving Faith; which was the thing [...] were speaking of. As he might have observed, had he not kept such a cawing to himself, that he could not hear us.

He makes account the Que­stions he asks you there are unanswer­able.

He doth so. And not to dissemble, they seem to be no less subtil and pro­found than the admired Cryptick Que­stion of Chrysippus; if you ever heard of it.

I know not what it means. Lucian in [...]u Sale of Philos.

I'le tell you then, if you will Answer me. Do you know your own Father, or Mother?

Yes sure.

Suppose then, I should bring one veil'd into your company, and should ask you, whether you know him, what would you say?

That I know him not.

But it is your Father; and there­fore if you know not who it is, you know not your own Father.

It is a notable fetch.

Just thus your Champion assaults me. Do you know Sir, What Faith is? Yes say I: He finds the Question an­swered in my Book. But he disguises, muffles and puts it into a great many strange shapes, as well as his wit will serve him; and asks me again, Is this it you call Faith? To which he answers for me, No, and then concludes most smartly, thus you see, you know not what Faith is; For this is it you called Faith. A most profound Disputer, I protest. At the next Sale of Philo­sophers He pre­tends to be one, p. 246.; when you hear them cryed about the Street, I pray enquire after the price of him. It is possible some may venture to give three far­things for him; especially when they hear with what excellent qualities he is endued. For be it known to all, he hath [Page 92]the best skill of any man I know, in [...] king Galamaufry's and Hotchpotches; [...] larding of English with bits of Lati [...] and in making of slaps and sauces [...] discourses. He is furnisht with a wh [...] shopful of shreds, a Magazine of Ta [...] and may set up an Office for Apologie [...] which he hath at his fingers end, [...] your fault what it will. He can shuffle, [...] wrangle, and scold; all these in perse­ction. And besides, he hath a bo [...] face, and can lye at no aim; and [...] you should chance to loose him, yo [...] may know him from all the men in th [...] world by certain Marks he hath abo [...] him. For where you find a man at a [...] turns, putting you off with, it may be [...] it is said, for any thing I know, all, [...] some, and such like words which I be­fore noted, lay hold of him, that's the man. Besides, he hath either robbe [...] another, or else you may know him by the Ordeal and Plowshares, Pelion and Ossa, the Pomps, and the indelible Ch [...] ­racter.

I cannot imagine what you mean.

They that have read a Book about the Rebuilding of London know well enough. For there P. 178. 217, 332, 335. they meet with all [Page 93]these, just as we do here in this: by which you may know that he hath such a set of words and phrases as will be sure to discover him. And now I speak of Pomps, you shall give me leave to shew you what a vain pretense this Ig­norant man m [...]kes to Learning. The ancient Christians he tells you P. 179. of Sober Answer. having found the great inconvenience of Stage Plays, and increase of wickedness by them, p [...]r a word on purpose into the Baptismal vow to deter people from going to them, and that is the Pomps of this World. For some Glossaries say, that Stage-plays were formerly called Pomps, if you will believe Bishop Usher, whom, saith he, I have some where found quoted for this. And so have I; in the Book about the Rebuilding of London P. 217., where the Au­thor saith Positively, Bishop Ʋsher hath observed that the Ancients inserted a passage against Ssage-plays in the Baptis­mal vow, viz. That we should renounce the Pomps of the world: now Pomps (said he) did of old signifie Stage-plays. But where the Bishop hath observed it, or said it, he tells us not; so that in effect he quotes his own Authority, when he tells us here, I have found him somewhere quoted: and draws this conclusion out of his own [Page 94]imagination, that though we allow Play [...] in a due measure, yet the old Christr [...] ­ans did not, but obliged those that were baptized to renounce them.

And what say you to it?

I have told you, he speaks out a of his own idle head, and there is not a word of Truth in what he says. For Pomps never signified any such Plays as ours.

Will you not take Bishop Usker's word?

I will see it first, and have it un­der his hand: for I cannot trust this vain talker, who doth not understand, I plainly see, what he reads. To pretend to know all that Bishop Usher ever writ, or said, would be vanity in me: but I will not believe it, till I have better authority than his, that he ever gave this sense of the word Pomp. Some Plays, or ra­ther Games and Publick Sights We ren­der Ludi by the word Plays, but we should rather say, Shows or Common Sights made for the peoples entertain­ment, and consecrated to some Deity: cal­led Spe­ctacula., he, or any body else might say were by a figure called Pomps: but the Anci­ents distinguished them; and to speak exactly, we must say, that the Pomps of the World were not those things which the Romans called Ludi, and Spectacu­la, which we should render Sports, Sights, or Games; but that stately Pro­cession [Page 95]which was made before one of them. For Pomp, you mustknow, is in its first signification nothing else but the sending of something; and the car­rying it also from one place to ano­ther Thence Mercury was called [...], because he carried down and transmitted souls to Hades., more particularly, the carry­ing something to be shown and exposed to publick view, through the Streets. But the word most properly belonged to that splendid and magnificent Pro­cession (as I may call it) which went be­fore the Races and Combates in the Ro­man Circus, which were the most famous sports among them. So Tertullian as­sures us Circensi­um paulo pompatior suggestus, quibus peopriè hoc nomen pompa, praecedit, &c.; who likewise informs us more particularly of what that Pomp consisted. In the first place there was a long row of the Images of their Gods publikely exposed and carried in the S [...]reet; then of the Images of men of Noble Families, at whose charges those Sports were made; then followed a great number of Chariots and Waggons of divers sorts (which have much trou­bled the brains of Criticks), then the Seats or Thrones of their Gods, then their Crowns, and their Robes and Or­naments; together with all the Sacri­fices which were to be offered, and all the Sacred implements belonging to [Page 96]them. After which came their Col­ledges of Augurs, their Priests, and their Civil Officers. This, in short, was the Pomp, as every body knows who hath read his Book De Spectaculis, chap. 7. Where he tells us, that this was the principal part of the old Idolatry, there being such a great number of their Gods (too many for me now to mention) car­ried in this great and solemn Procession at Rome: Which was the reason, I con­ceive, that it was imitated in the Pro­vinces distant from the City. Where though it was performed with less care and solemnity, as he tells us, yet that did not make the crime less to accom­pany it. For wheresoever the Pomp of the Circus was (these are his words) though there be but a few Images carri­ed about, there is Idolatry in one. And though there be but one Chariot drawn, it is Jupiter's wane. Let the Idolatry be set out sordidly, or in a better garb, it makes no difference, for all is upon the account of the same crime. All this considered, I take these, till I am bet­ter informed, to be the Pomps renounced in Baptism; which Christians were by no means to attend and go along with, or, as Apuleius Conti­nuare pompam. L. 11 Me­tamorph. p. 242. Edit. 1650. speaks, to continue the [Page 97]Pomp. For it was to do an honour to false Gods, and being present at these, they might be in danger to be inticed to downright Idolatry by the bravery and magnificence of the show: which was so great, that all splendid and stately things, whether in speeches or actions, have been since called by the name of Pompous. I know there was a Pomp at their Triumphs, and at great Funerals See Pri­caeus in l. 2. Apuleil Metam. p. 120. and other times, but these which I have named were the Pomps which Believers promised to forsake. And I find it ob­jected to them as a crime by Caecilius a Heathen, in the Dialogue of Minutius Faelix, (who follows Tertullian in his very words) that they abstained from honest Pleasures (as he called them) not enduring to see their Spectaeles, nor to be present at their Pomps Non spe­ctacula vi [...] sitis, non Pompis interestis. p. 15. Edit. Heraldi, 1613. where Ri­galtius notes how antient this form of Renuncia­tion was.. To which he replies in the end of his Book, we abstain from unlawful pleasures, your Pomps and Spectacles, whose original we both know to have been from your Re­ligion, and whose hurtful inticements we condemn Quo­rum & de Sacris o­riginem novimus, &c. p. 54.. And immediately he instance; (as if they were the principal entertainments to ensnare them) in the madness of the People at the Circen­sian Sports For those he under­stands by Ludica­rales.. These were so inviting, [Page 98]that, notwithstanding their Renunciati­on, we understand by St. Cyprian, (who transcribes a great deal of Minutius) some Christians not only went to these publike Spectacles, but also pleaded for their so doing; saying, Where do we find them prohibited? What place of Scripture speaks against them? nay, Is not Helias called the Chariots of Israel, &c? and did not David dance before the Ark? and do we not read of Psalte­ries, Timbrels and Harps, &c? The Apostle also speaking of our Spiritual Combate, borrows examples from the wrestlings, and races, &c. which are at these Spectacles. Why may not one of the faithful therefore, behold that which those Holy men might write? Thus they laboured (as you do now in other cases) with words and phrases of Scripture to defend their dangerous practice. To whom he replies, among other things, Helias being the Chariot of Israel, is no argument that you may go to behold the Circensianraces, for he never ran in any Circus L. de spectac.. And, at last, to strike all dead, he tells them, the Scripture prohi­bited all these Spectacles when it took away all Idolatry, the Mother of all their publike sports Omni­um ludo­rum Ma­trem.; from whence all these [Page 99]Monsters of vanity That is a word he uses more th [...]n once, for these spectacles which is joyned with Pomp in the Baptis­mal vow. and levity came. For what spectacle is there without an Idol? What show without a Sacrifice? what pub­lique combate that is not consecrated to the dead? What should a Faithful Christian do among these? &c. Let him know that they are all the inventions of Damons, and not of God. And then as he had done before (speaking of Helias) so he again mentions the Circensian spectacles; and tells us they were the eldest of all, being consecrated by Romulus himself to Con­sus, the God of Counsel, for helping him to take away the Sabinian Virgins. He that would more fully understand how apt these Pomps might be to en­chant vulgar minds, and consequently how necessary it was the sight of them should be prohibited to Christian peo­ple, may read the rare description which Apuleius (in his Milesian Tales L. XI. pag. 243, 244, &c.) hath left us of the great Pomps Antelu­dia mag­nae Pom­pae. where­in the Mother of the Gods was carried, together with all the chief Ornaments of the most powerful Deities Potentis­simo [...]um Deorum exuvias., and the fine Sights which went before it. No­thing was so grateful to the people as this; because they could please their Gods, they thought, and themselves both together. The Pomp being so con­trived, [Page 100]that it was a mixture of Devo [...] on and Mirth; and the works of the most stately Religion Opera [...] magnificae Religi­onis. were presented to them among chearful Ceremonies, and merry Spectacles Inter hi­lares Ce­remonias, & festiva spectacula, &c. p. 242..

I am sorry these Pomps came in our way, for they have diverted us too long from that which we were speaking of. viz. Faith in Christ. Hath he not made it plain you have abused us, in saying, we take Faith to be no more than a relying on Christ for the forgiveness of sins? p. 67.

No. He hath neither made that, not any thing else plain; unless it be his own Ignorance, or something worse. I have abused no body; but the poor people miserably abuse themselves (by the means of such men as he) who are generally of that perswasion.

But they were taught other ways (as he tells you) by the Assembly, who say, that Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for Salvation, as he is offered to us in the Gospel, that is, as Pre­phet, Priest, and King Sober Answer, p. 67..

I remember the greatest part of these words are in the shorter Catechism: but, Why did he not tell us so? and [Page 101]who gave him Authority to add those words in the conclusion, that is, as Priest, Prophet and King? I am sure they are not there?

That's a small matter, The Assembly themselves warrant that addi­tion, who explain their meaning, (he tells you) by quoting for it, Isa. 33.22. The Lord is our Judg, our Law-giver, our King, and he will save us.

I cannot tell whether I should stand amazed at the Ignorance, or the impudence and falsness of this (Wri­ter, I cannot call him, but) Scri­bler.

Why? what's the matter now?

The Assembly quote no such place as that which he mentions, but ex­pound their meaning, by referring us to another Text in the same Prophet, Isa. 26.3.4. where there is mention only of trusting in the Lord. Will you never leave this Trade of cheating, by adding and taking away from Books, accor­ding to your humor and fancy? To what will those mens impudence arrive hereafter; who, while things are fresh in memory, are so bold as to take this License?

Why should not I believe him as soon as you?

Believe neither of us. But go and search your self the eldest and most Authentick editions, printed either here in England, or by the approba­tion and the Act of the General Assem­bly in Scotland, and you shall meet with no such Scripture as this which he thrusts upon us: nor any at all out of the old Testament, but only that which I have mentioned. Isa. 26.3.4. I have seen several, which I shall not stand particularly to name the first of those was 1649. which cites the place now nam'd.. There is none I suppose can be of greater cre­dit with you, than that set forth in quarto 1658., to­gether with the larger Catechisme and confession of Faith: recommended with a solemn preface by a great many Mi­nisters, and this Gentleman among the rest, to the use of private Families. This gives you the places of Scripture in words at length, but this which he quotes is not to be met withal among them. Nor is it in a late Edition of the shorter Catechisme 1667. printed after the same manner.

Do you think he put it in out of his own head?

I know not what to think. But [Page 103]a man that had a list to imitate his vile way of writing might say, it is possible, for some reason that is suggested, that he was accessary to the fraud.

Fie upon it. Do not leave it to us, to imagine reasons.

But he doth p. 82., as you shall hear, when he talks of my being no enemy to Sacriledge, after this very fashi­on.

And will you follow him in such wicked courses?

No. I only told you what a man might do who studied to pay him in his own coin. And to deal more fairly with him than he deserved, he might add this reason for his Conjecture. I met a good while ago with one edition of that Shorter Catech. Printed by A. Maxwel 1660. into which some body hath foisted this place of Scripture which he mentions, in the room of the other which the Assembly affixed to their definition. Now how he came to be best acquainted with this Editi­on, or prefer it before all others (e­ven that large one with his own hand to it) one cannot well conceive, might a man say, unless it be for the same rea­son that people love their own Chil­dren [Page 104]better than any else. But for a this I conclude nothing. Let me only ask, which way you will conclude in this case? Did he know there was this Alteration made in the texts of Scrip­ture, and that this which he quotes was not in the Edition to which he hath given his Approbation under his hand; or did he not? If not, then he is not so well skill'd in your Divines as he pretends, nor fit to talk of these mat­ters; he is a stranger to his Catechism, and recommends that to the peoples remembrance, which he forgets him­self. If he did know; then I ask how he durst tell us this in the name of the Assembly, and say they prove their proposition by this place, when his Conscience told him they did not? Is it not an high degree of wickedness to countenance, or indeavour to conti­nue such a fraud? May not all your party justly buffet him, for abusing the Assembly and making them write that which they never meant? For he ex­presly tells us, they quote this place, Isa. 33.22. which, as it is nothing to the purpose, so was not chosen by them to back their doctrine withal.

It was some mistake, you may be sure.

Not in him that put out that E­dition, whoever he was; for he in­dustriously changed the Scriptures, to bend their words to his own sense.

I think the Title page of that Edition tells you, that the proofs in words at length, are either some of the formerly quoted places, or others gathe­red from the Assemblies other writings.

Its well observed; for it is a con­fession of a change, according to ano­ther mans judgment and not their own. And this Phil. if he had been the man he would be taken for, would have carefully noted. And since he was speaking of the Assemblies opinion he ought not to have alledged any proofs of it, but those which they quoted themselves for it; especially conside­ring that he wholly relyes on that place of Scripture to shew their sense. As for him who made the Alteration, he did not deal sincerely and as became an upright man. For where shall we find this new proof in their other wri­tings? They never wrote any thing else about these matters but the larger Catechism and the Confession of Faith, [Page 106]and there is no such Scripture alledged in either of those when they speak of this businesse. And now I mention the larger Catechisme again, of which the lester is an abridgment; one would think it had been more fit for him to fetch the explication of their words and take their meaning from thence, rather than from the corrupt glosses put upon the shorter. For they could better express their own mind them­selves, than any of their Disciples. Now if you go thither, you shall find they determine faith to the promises as its object, and make it a resting on Christ and his righteousness for pardon of sin and accepting our persons, with­out any mention of any respect to him as a Prophet or King. Let us read the words. Justifying Faith is a saving grace wrought in the heart of a sinner by the Spirit and word of God, whereby being convinced of Sin and misery, &c. he not only assents to the truth of the promise of the Gospel, but receives and rests upon Christ and his righteousness therein held forth, for pardon of sin, and for the ac­cepting and accounting of his person righ­teous in the sight of God for Salvation. Judge now whether I wrong'd you in [Page 107]that which I said concerning Faith, which it is plain you have been taught to think is nothing else in effect but this, to rely upon Christ for forgive­ness of sins. And should your Child ask you the meaning of those words in the shorter Catechisme, and say, How is Christ held forth or offered to us in the Gospel? I pray tell me what Answer you would return. Would not you, who are exhorted to read those Books and instruct your Family out of them, re­ply to him in this manner? Child, the larger Catechisme, which you must learn next, informs you, that he is held forth as our righteousnesse, and so you must receive him and rest on him for pardon and accepting of your person as righteous, according to the promise of the Gospel.

I think I should teach them in that manner. But I remember withal that in their Confession of Faith. chap. 14. they tell us something else, viz. that the Principal Acts of saving Faith are receiving and resting on Christ alone for Justification, Sanctification, and eternal life by virtue of the Covenant of Grace.

True. But you know that this is not so much read as the other, and is [Page 108]more fitted for Divines than you; not are any of you wont to read it, till you have the former perswasion rooted in your hearts. Besides, they do not speak here of Faith as justifying, but of the principal acts of saving Faith: and you know they use to make a difference be­tween these two. They put also relying on him for Justification in the first place: and more than that, in the eleventh Chapter, which is concerning Justifica­tion, they tell you, that Faith receiving and resting on Christ and his Righteousness is the alone Instrument of Justification. And therefore the common opinion is, that it Justifies as it hath a respect to the blood of Christ and his Righteousness. But I have a more mighty Argument to prove that this is the Orthodox sense of that Assembly, which is from the Parliament it self. Who in their Or­dinance of Octob. 20. 1645. giving Rules and Directions concerning Suspen­sion from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, in case of Ignorance or Scandal, deliver this Definition of Faith which a Communicant is to be instructed in, It is a grace whereby we believe and trust in Christ for remission of sin and life ever­lasting, according to the promise of the [Page 109]Gospel And that you know is to those who be­lieve.. And by this Faith alone, he is to know, Christ and his benefits are applied. This is the more to be observed, because they made this Ordinance, con­sidering the Wonderful Providence of God, in calling them to the great and difficult work of reforming and purging his Church and People, as you read in the Preface; and because this definition is again repeated in the Form of Church Government, to be used in the Church of England and Ireland, after advice had with the Assembly of Divines Aug. 29. 1648. p. 29..

You pack a great many things together, which I had forgotten—

You may see by that, I have stu­died your Catechism as well as ours, though I have not told you my name. By which he may know, that I am old enough to shew, if I pleased, how deep­ly Antinomianism is rooted in your peo­ples hearts, notwithstanding all that Mr. Baxter, and others, have done to pluck it up. For such men as he who talk rawly and negligently of Divine things, help to maintain and support it. Nor do I see any reason to alter my opinion, that many of you are Antino­mians, and do not know it; just as I told you the last time Continu­ation of the Fr. Deb. p. 87.. that you are [Page 110]wont to rail very often (like this Hot­spur of yours) even when you say you aborr it.

I abhorr those reflections you made upon what was done and said by some men in the late times, and I think he hath School'd you to purpose for it. Are you not sensible how oft you broke his Majesties gracious Act of Pardon? And will you think your self a fit re­prover of others for the breach of his Laws, when you do not observe the chiefest and most beloved of them, your self?

I must confess, that this man hath more of a Pedant in him, than any one I know, and very magisterially stands over me with Rod in hand. And when he hath laid on as many lashes as he could, then he takes breath, and says, Now Sir, go on with your Lesson, and please you P. 123. — And so I will; a great deal further than he ever expect­ed to hear. And I have such a Lesso [...] now for him, as will make him give over the Trade of Schooling, if he have any wit in his head, till he be better learned.

Speak out then.

You need not fear it: for I stand [Page 111]in no awe of his correction. I rather pity him, when I think what a taking he will be in; after he finds that Indemnity will do him no more service, than to say, In Speech, beware your Br— This you must know is the Cuckoe Song, which we hear over and over, till we are tired with it, Indemnity, Indemnity, Indemnity. It is ten times at least repeated in his Preface, and I have not leisure to tell how many times in the Book. And yet for all this, we m [...]st be so civil, as to believe that he is not in love with Tautologies P. 230. being not in love with tautolo­gies, I shall, &c.. No, by no means. Though his whole Preface be little else but his Letter turn'd into an Epistle Although my whole Book be no­thing but a Letter to you, yet I shall add an Epistle, &c., (if you know the difference) a vain repetition of the same things, and oft-times in the very same words: yet we must rather suspect our own blockishness than his love of Tau [...]ology to be the reason of it. He is no Parrot he would have you know Though he tells us very often of the Par­rot, N. C. pag. 168, 266, 286., that hath but a few things to prattle, and says them often over: He hath the act of Indemnity to talk of, and then the Act of Oblivion; then the Act of Oblivion, and after that the Act of Indemnity; and then Indemnity a­gain, and so forward, &c. which calls to mind (I cannot help it) the story [Page 112]of Scarpaccia (which we find in a cer­tain Italian Hospital, not now to be named) who had a conceit that he was King of Cuckoes; and so to every one that spoke to him good or bad, he would always answer with great readi­ness, Cuckoe, Cuckoe, Cuckoe. And being demanded why he answered not to the purpose? he replied again, I am King Cuckoe, Cuckoe, Cuckoe.

Methinks you are beside your Book.

Not at all. Look into his Preface, p. 7. and there he tells you, I have laid the axe to the root of the Act of Indem­nity. Turn over a new leaf, and you take him at it again, p. 8. those Pioneers (the two Debates) have been undermi­ning that great wall of defence, viz. the Act of Indemnity. And he hath not done with it yet, I knock, he saith, s [...] hard upon the Act of Indemnity, p. 10. Once more, p. 11. I make nothing, he tells you, of the Act of Indemnity; having razed the foundation (as it is in his Book 249) of the Act of Indemnity. He thinks sure, we have little to do, but are as idle as the boys in the Street, who gather about a Parrot to hear it talk: Otherwise he would not have troubled us with such a [Page 113] Pen-and-Inkhorn Preface, consisting of two and forty pages; when he had so lit­tle new to add.

He tells you Preface, pag. 1., that he thought letter upon letter might be as necessary as precept upon precept, line upon line, twice over, which are the Prophets words, Isa. 28.10.

He prophanes the Holy Scripture throughout his whole Book, by using its words on every common and trivial oc­casion. But let him repeat it a thou­sand times, till he hath made his own head ake as well as his Readers; I shall remain as innocent, and you as guilty as before; only he himsef will appear more boldly Ignorant. For he is like those men who write of Countries they never saw, who commonly tell a great many tales. I have great cause to be confi­dent that he never read this Act seri­ously about which he talks so much, but only poured a flood of words with a great noise out of his own unfurnisht brains. With these he hoped to make his credulous Readers, like those who live near the falls of Nilus, deaf to any other Information, though never so certain.

You cannot think him so bold, as [Page 114]to charge you with breaking an Act, the matter of which he did not understand.

Then he is a dishonest man, if ha­ving read it and understood it, he would not confess the truth, which is this. Within two or three days after his Ma­jesties return, he desired the Parliament which then sate, speedily to dispatch an Act of Indemnity which he had pro­mised. After it had passed the Commons, he went to the Peers Speech in House of Peers, July 27. 1660., and expressed his impatient desire to have this Act pre­sented to him for his Royal assent. Ac­cordingly upon Aug. 29. 1660. this Act was passed, as an Act of free and General Pardon, Indemnity and Oblivion. And in the Preface to it, these two in­tents and purposes of it are expressed. First, that no crime committed against his Majesty, or his Royal Father, shall hereafter rise in Judgment, or be brought in Question against any one to the least indamagement of them, &c. Se­condly, To bury all Seeds of future dis­cords, and remembrances of the for­mer. Accordingly the Former part of the Act is for Indemnity, and pro­vides for mens safety by acquitting, re­leasing and discharging all persons from all crimes (save those excepted after­ward) [Page 115]committed from Jan. 1. 1637. till June 24. 1660. And then the other part (which concerns our present-busi­ness) is for Oblivion, in these words, To the intent and purpose, that all Names and terms of distinction may be likewise put in utter Oblivion, be it enacted, that if any person, or persons, within the space of three years next ensuing, shall presume maliciously to call or alledg The par­ticle Of is to be left out as ap­pears by the Chan­cellours Speech made af­ward, where he recites these words.of, or object against any other person or persons, any name or names, or other words of reproach, any way tending to revive the memory of the late differences, or occasions thereof, that eve­ry such person, so as aforesaid offending, shall forfeit and pay unto the party grieved, if he be a Gentleman, ten pound, &c. This clause the Lord Chancellor at their ad­journment, Sept. 13. 1660. commended in his Majesties Name to their and all mens remembrance. Now mark the Ignorance and the Malice of this Phila­gathus, as he falssly stiles himself: His bold Ignorance, in that he would have the world believe I have violated, nay, horribly violated Pag. 7. of the Preface. this Law as it is an Act of Indemnity (for in that stile he speaks) when I have not so much a [...] a power to punish any man, though he were not acquitted and discharged. [Page 116]His malice, in perswading you, that it is the drift of my Book to provoke the Magistrates to break it in pieces in their anger, as Moses did the Tables of Stone Ib. p. 6.: when it hath no design in those passages which have so netled him, but either to shew, that they act not according to their declared Prin­ciples in times past, or that they have not so behaved themselves as to deserve the name of the only or most knowing and godly people, which they commonly assume to themselves: In which I will shew you by and by, how they break this, as well as other of his Majesties Laws. But first let us mark again, how rashly and impudently he charges me with the breach of this Law, as it is an Act of Oblivion, (which must be distin­guished from the other, though they He confused, as all things else, in his head:) and how he manifestly discovers he never read it, or with no care to understand it. The Act saith, we shall not object against any person, any name or names, or other words of reproach under such a penalty. But this man saith with a bold face, it is expressly provided in the Act of Indemnity, that the crimes therein mentioned as for­given, [Page 117]should no more be objected to any man under a certain penalty, p. 249. The same he saith in another place Pag. 88., with­out any stick; and that those old things must never more, according to that Act, be so much as rehearsed P. 142.; which is less then objected. And more then this, he affirms, that we may not so much as speak of any Ordinance of Parliament which was formerly made P. 254.; and there­fore, like a man of an exceeding nice and tender Conscience, he dares not so much as seem to know, or remember, that ever there were any such Ordinances These are his very words. as I mention. A special way to Answer me, by saying nay, by knowing just No­thing. But judg now of the modesty and sincerity of this man, who makes bold (as he speaks) to take me to task for the breach of a Law, whose words he never recites, nay always puts other words of his own making in the room of them. And judg of his discretion and understanding, Who can let it en­ter into his thoughts, that the Law pro­hibits us so much as to remember what was done in the late Times? Suppose we hear them call us shortly, the old and the implacable Enemy, must we not so much as seem to call to mind that this [Page 118]was the stile of those days? If they be­gin to talk of the Holy cause, and the Good old cause, must we, according to this new Doctor, seal up our lips, and make as if we never heard of such a thing before? What? may we not so much as write a true History of what is past? This is the thing, no doubt, they would be at. We must forget, as I told you at our last meeting Contin. of the Debate, p. 66.; all that is past, and now believe you cannot err, nay, were always innocent. This will be a fine way to keep posterity in Ignorance, that you may do the like again, and ne­ver be suspected, till it be too late to prevent it. A most admirable contri­vance (for which he will be well re­warded, if he can make it good) to turn us into mere fools, by dispossessing [...]s of our Reason, together with our Pas­sions. Then you may do what you will with us, and the Nation shall deserve to be your slaves, if after they have been robbed of so many pretious things, they suffer you to despoil them of their Memories, and deprive them of the benefit of their dear bought experience. But be serious, I beseech you: if all that hath been done, writ, or spoken, must be buried in perpetual Oblivion, [Page 119]How durst the Kings Prime Physician Dr Bates his E­lench. Mo­tuum nu­perorum in Anglia. Dedicate and present to his Majesty himself (and that not long after this Act was past, and yet fresh in memory) an Account, and smart Reproof of the late Commotions in England? In which he lays open the base Arts, the Fraud, Cruelty, Hypocrisie, breach of Faith, Ambition, Covetousuess and Pride, which were then so rife among you. Why was this Book licensed by one of the Secre­taries of State Sir Will. Morice, April 6. 1663.? And why did not this busie Philagathus, who dedicated part of a Book to that Physician, with some others Physical Contempl. on Fire, &c. 1667.; twitch him a little, and whisper this in his ear; Good Sir, Par­den me I beseech you, you are my great Friend, but you have horribly violated the Act of Indemnity? Why did he not in his great zeal, at least, inform him of this, that he had wronged that great Saint in the Army, whom here he so much commends P. 152. of Sober Answer., but the Doctor saith, was a wily man Elench. pars pri­ma, p. 76., attent to his own private profit, and betraying the Presbyterians to serve himself?

Pray let such things pass with­out further Reflection.

I would not so much as have men­tion'd this, if it had not been to shew [Page 120]either how Ignorant this man is, who knows none of these matters, and yet will be a Writer of Books; or how full of hypocrisie, who pretends his Spirit was so moved, that he could not but buffet me for the wrongs I have done them, and yet can flatter another who hath dealt more severely with them.

Shew your self merciful too, and say no more of this to him.

The greatest kindness I can do him, is to shew him, if it be possible, that he is not the man he takes himself for. If he will not be convinced; yet do you blush to think, that any one among you should write thus idly, while others speak and act such things as will call what is past to our mind, (unless you knock out our brains) whether we will or no. We must think a Spade to be a Spade; and, if need be, call it so. The things stand upon record in the Books as yet unburnt, which you would have us forget. Many of those, out of which I quoted some passages, are still in your houses. Why should we blot the images of things out of our memo­ries, which are stampt in Paper not yet blotted, nor [...]orn in pieces? or, Why should we sorbear to mention, that [Page 121]which you do not forbear to read? When Queen Elizabeth put out her Injunction, that her Subjects should not call one another Hereticks or Schismaticks, it was not sufficient for a guilty man to say to him that convinced him of Schism, and called him Schismatick, you regard not her Majesties pleasure, you make nothing of her commands: No, when some troublesome persons pleaded this, I find the Answer was Su [...]cliffs Answer to a certain Libel, Sup­plic. 1592. p. 131., that the Queens Injunctions did not protect factious Mates, but good and quiet Subjects, such as you will not shew your selves to be. That's my Answer now; keep the Laws, and, by my consent, you shall never hear of your breaking them heretofore. Be more humble and modest, and we will never remember you of your Pride. Do not talk as if you were infallible, and knew all Gods Secrets, and we will not tell the people how you have abused them—

Not talk any more, I hope, of the Act of Indemnity.

Stay a while. I have not said all my lesson; but the hardest part is still to come. For suppose, my good Neigh­bour, that the words of the Act had been as he affirms, that we must not men­tion [Page 122]any crime, or any thing that was ever done; which you see is not true. To what purpose doth he tell me of it, unless he first prove that it is but three years since, June 24. 1660? If he can do this, he will be as great a man as he thinks himself: otherwise, he is an im­pudent reviler, in proclaiming me so of­ten, and so lowdly, a most high and grievous offender against a Law which is out of date; and which, if it were in force, I had no way broke. And yet, now that I bethink my self, he must prove that it will never be more than three years since 1660. otherwise, he is a shameless Lyar, in saying the Act re­quires, that their crimes should be no more objected, and never more rehearsed, as you have heard. And after he hath overcome this difficulty (as he hath a strange faculty in stretching) there is another still to conquer; and that is to prove, that I wrote Maliciously; else the former Herculean labour will do him no service. For if I wrote not to satisfie any passion, much less revenge; nor to do any man any mischief, (as I protest I did not) but only to prevent such calamities as we have already suf­fered, to benefit posterity, to reform [Page 123]those who are still top full of the old ill humors, to humble those that break the Laws, and to undeceiue the simple; then it was alway lawful, even during those three years, to remember you of what was past, and now it is become necessary. To conclude this, there is another labour to be undergone after all these (though they are enough, one would think, to make his heart ake) and that is to contradict himself, who is so far from accusing me of Malice, that he is perswaded I was rather car­ried about by others more cholerick, than by my self with so rapid a motion Preface, p. 39., as he thinks I have been. And more than that, he resolves by the help of God, not to judge me at all P. 276.; for which there is very good reason, if you mark what follows in these words; yea, I think I have judged you as little as any man under my Circumstances, if at all. Since he knows so little of himself, yea, of his own Book, that he cannot tell certain­ly whether he hath done a thing or no, he ought not to think, that he knows much or others, and to be very careful how he judges. And if he will hold that good resolution, or stand to what he hath confessed, then he hath thrown [Page 124]all his words against me into the wind; which come flying back into his own face, charging him if not with spight, yet with ignorance, headiness, and un­excusable Folly.

But you may for all this have offended against the intention of the Act, for his Majesty declared that he desired all names and terms of distincti­on should be put into utter Obli­vion.

It is well observed. All names and terms of distinction, but he doth not say all things that were done should never be called to mind; especially when you revive the memory of them in spight of our hearts. But I can tell you more, if it will do you any good, His Ma­jesty desired there might no note of di­stinction remain; and it was his end in forbidding us for three years to call men by any name, or names or other words of reproach, that all Differences might be forgotten. But you would needs keep up notes of distinction and so still continued our Differences.

Pray be more moderate in your assertions.

I cannot abate a word of what I say. For his Majesty told you in ano­ther place, what would be the best way to make us one, and the best instance you could give of declining all mark [...] of distinction (i.e. an effectual means of putting former things into Oblivion, which you are now so desirous of) and he intreated you also to make use of it; but you would not comply with his desires, and by that means kept alive our difference.

I remember no such thing.

Be not angry with those that do. I remember very well, that in his de­claration Pag. 14. concerning Ecclesiastical Af­fairs he heartily wished and desired, that because of dislike to some clauses and expressions in the Common Prayer, you would not totally lay aside the use of it, but read that part against which there could be no exception: which would be (mark his words) the best in­stance of declining those marks of distincti­on which we so much labour and desire to remove: now how many do you think there were, who took this healing course, though they make such a stir now about the burying of Differences? Were you not mighty careful to take away marks [Page 126]of distinction, when that very thing, which, in his Majesties judgment, would be so apt to remove them, was so little regarded? And how did you indeavour then to take away all remembrances of things past i. e. to fulfil the intent of the Act of Oblivion, when you would not remove this great note of distinction, which had been made? And yet I find Petition for peace, &c. not long after this, that some of you desired the Bishops to lay by all for­mer and present exasperations and aliena­ting differences; as if they were bound to comply with the end of the Law, but not you your selves. But I have not done with you yet.

I wish you had; for here's enough.

No. I will quite stop his mouth, if I can. The Chancellour by the Kings command told us Speech at the Ad­journment of the Par. 13. Sept. 1660. p. 15. what kind of names and terms of distinction were to be put into Oblivion, and desired that no bo­dy would find new names and terms to keep up the same or a worse distinction. If the old reproaches, saith he, of Cava­lier, and Round-head and Malignant are committed to the Grave; let us not find more significant and better words, to signi­fie worse things. How well you have [Page 127]observed this exhortation we all know, who call your selves the Godly, the Peo­ple of God, the Saints, the Christians; as if we were the wicked, the enemies of Gods people and no better than Pa­gans. These are marks of distinction with a witness, against which his Ma­jesty there gave you, by him, a particu­lar caution. And I can mention many o­ther affected cognisances and differen­ces, to use my L. Bacons words, whereby you seek to correspond among your selves and to differ from others, which is directly contrary to the design of that clause in the Act of Oblivion.

Pray forget them for once, if it be but to avoid tediousness.

Observe then only this, which will shew you the impertinence of your prating Philag. that he reflects very sharply in that speech upon some things past and gone, and tells them that there were still certain persons who infused jealousies into the peoples hearts, and studied to alienate their affections, by talking of introducing Popery, and of evil Councellors, and such other old Calumnies: which it seems by this, it was lawful to put them in mind of, even within a few days after these crimes were pardoned. [Page 128]He expresly recites also, some of the usual talk Speech at their disso­lution Dec. 29. 1660. p. 19. in the late times whereby the people were deceived (as that God would never restore a Family with which he had such a Controversie, &c.) and remembers them how the Church had been buried many years by the boysterous hands of prophane and Sacrilegious Per­sons under its own rubbish Ib. p. 20.: and that a deep deluge of sacriledge, prophaness, and impiety had covered it and to com­mon understanding swallowed it up, though now it appeared again above the waters Ib p. 21.. And the next year at the ope­ning of the new Parliament May 8. 1661., he lets them know that some, instead of repen­ting any thing they had done, repeated the same crimes; particularly, some seditious Preachers reproached the Laws established, repeated the very ex­pressions, and taught the very Doctrines, they set on foot 1640. Now what saies your Graculo to all this? what a pitty is it, that he was not sent for to advise withal when he pen'd this speech? He would have told him when he came to these words. Hold my Lord; Not a word of what hath been done since 1637. You must not repeat the Doctrines or expressions then in use, though others [Page 129]do. It is against the Act of Indemnity, which you violated too much the last year. For we must not so much as seem to know, or remember that any such things ever were, as Sacriledge, prophanesse, impiety and rapine That's also men­tion'd in his speech.. These old things must never more be rehearsed.

Thus this man hath in effect tutor'd and school'd him, and by consequence his Majesty himself; who by his mouth, as he would perswade us, hath spoken against his own gratious Act of Indem­nity. But will you please to hear what the King himself spoke in person at that time Speech at the opening of the Part. P. 5.; for it is very considerable. After he had told them how much the Act of Indemnity secured the happiness of the Nation, he desired them in Gods name notwithstanding to provide a full re­medy for any further mischief, and to pull up those old principles, which might make new offenders, by the very roots. It seems then they are not to be for­gotten, though they be pardon'd. We may think that it is possible; they only ye hid and do not appear, but are not [...]et extirpated out of mens hearts. And herefore it is lawful to go about that [...]ork; which cannot be done unless we [...]st discover them, and then shew the [Page 130]rottenness of them, and let the people see how much they have been cheated by them. I could add a great deal more out of other Papers, but I think it time to make an end; having sufficiently shewn that all that this man and his per­takers talk about these matters, is only smoak and vapour, which will not a­bide the touch; and that they deal with the Act of Oblivion as they do with the Divine Writings. If they get a word by the end; they make a great noise and cannot tell when to have done with it, never minding the sense. At they cry Free grace, and the Covenant [...] grace, the Covenant of Grace, so they cry the Act of Oblivion, the Act of Oblivion. But look into either of them, and consider them well, and you will find they are no such thing, as th [...] which they mean by them.

Let the world judg between you: For I will meddle no further i [...] this matter.

It is the greatest favour I would desire of you all, that you would i [...] down calmly, and after both sides heard, indifferently judg between us. You would soon see, I make no doubt, that his Book, and not that which [Page 131] As he pretends p. 26 of the preface. he writes against, is a fiery inve­ctive. But the mischief of it is, that many of you will never read what we write. You will only hear of one ear, and believe what a man of your party saies, and then all', your own. For which Partiality if you judg not your selves, God will. Among those also who will read our writings, there are so few I doubt that consider, or that are able to make a tryal and discern when a cause is well maintain'd, and when not (as Mr. Baxter Preface to his Con­fession of Faith. speaks) that he who will confi­dently pour out words, how far soever he digress from the Truth or mark, is as soon believed as he that gives the soundest rea­son. But then let such a man pretend zeal for Religion, (which is the cause of all this stir) let him bawl and cry a­loud and say his Adversary is an ene­my to it, or hath laid a train to blow it up; and that He is come forth with great hazard to himself to prevent that mischief, and shall be a Martyr if he dye in the quarrel As that man tells us p. 26 of the pref.. He will be sure to be admired and held in great Veneration by the Ignorant people. When he hath once fill'd their ears with the sound of these things, his work is done to pur­pose; and it will be hard to get a word [Page 132]we have to say, to enter into them. Especially, if the man, who hath inga­ged the affections of unwary Souls in this manner, joyn a shew of Mortifi­cation, contempt of the World, dislike and hatred of all sin, together with his zeal for the cause of God and Godli­ness. When they see men go simply in the Streets (saith the Bishop Speech at Lisne­garvy., I named the last time) and bow down their heads like a Bulrush, wringing their necks awry, shaking their heads, as though they were in some present grief, &c. when they hear them give great groans, and cry out against this and that sin, (not in their own hear­ers, but in others, especially their Superi­ours) and finally make long Prayers: when, I say, the multitude hear and see such kind of men, they are by and by carried away with a marvellous great conceit and opinion of them: And with such shews have many Pharasaical Teachers drawn the mul­titude after them, who have not their senses exercised to discern between good and evil; but judg only by the outward ap­pearance.

God send you and me a right judgment in all things.

We must not only pray, but la­bour for it; by subduing our Passions, [Page 133]and laying aside all Prejudices, so that we may with indifferent and equal minds consider and try all things; and be in­clined by nothing but truth.

It is a hard matter to keep our selves from being byassed by something or other. And the goodness of any man is apt, I confess, not only to draw and incline my affections to him, but to make me of his belief.

Are there no good men, think you, who want judgment, and are of a weak understanding? Must you believe all they say, because you know they will not deceive you? They may be de­ceived themselves. They may be igno­rant; and then be transported by their zeal, as this man is, to talk of things they understand not.

I will not easily believe him without strict examination, whatsoever credit I give to others.

You had need be the more careful, because the confidence which some men use, may make you too much presume of their knowledg: As I doubt this mans boldness in his Assertions, and in his Rebukes, will deceive many. He beseeches me, for instance, with no small scorn, to reconcile two passages [Page 134]in my first Book, which he saith, are as opposite one to the other as the East and West, or (to make a greater sound) the Artick and Antartick Poles P. 274.: both which, you must think, he hath seen as he past through all the Signs of the Zodiack of their Sufferings. One is in p. 95. where I say, that according to the Covenant, you ought to have some Form of Divine Service; because you bound your selves to reform according to the best reformed Churches. The other is pag. 223. where it is affirm'd, that you took Scotland for the best re­formed Church, and therefore they must be the pattern. Now I pray Sir, saith Philag. What Liturgy had they wont to use in Scotland? or, When was the Church of Scotland for the use of a Li­turgy? If they were always against and with­out a Form of Divine Service (by their good will) how are men bound by the Covenant to use a form of Divine Service every time they meet, by being bound to reform accor­ding to their pattern? And he concludes with a piece of Latine imprting that a Lyar ought to have a good memory.

That might have been spared: But I think he hath charged you shrewdly.

I think the stroke will return [Page 135]with a vengeance upon himself: and he will find he hath wounded his own credit and not mine. But, I confess, the reading of this made me sigh to think, that the Nation should be thus abused by every forward and daring man, who hath so good an opinion of himself, as to write Books, and become a publick Instructer of others. If wise men will not take care to remedy it, they must be content to see themselves as well as us over-run with folly. And what re­medy is there, but that no man be the judg of his own Abilities, but every work pass the approbation of discreet and judicious persons? This was never more necessary than now, when those un­dertake to inform and teach the Nation, who have not so much knowledg as the Prophesying Ape, with which Giles of Pas­samonte went about to cosen the Country.

What was that?

It had this notable faculty; that it could tell nothing at all of what was to come, but knew something of what was past; and a little of things present: otherwise it would never mount up to Giles his shoulder, and chatterin his ear. But this Phil. of yours, frisks, and grins in my face, and grates his teeth apace, [Page 136]and looks upon me as a scurvy lyar: and yet confesses himself Ignorant of what is past; and that, when he mounts up himself without any bidding to talk of it. Thus the poor people are cosened: and this man cosens their Conscience, while such as the other only pick their pockets of twelve pence a piece.

Why? What Liturgy were they wont to use in Scotland? or, when was the Church of Scotland for the use of a Liturgy? Were they not alway without and against a Form of Divine Service?

You need not repeat his words. I was going to tell you, that it is end­less to write to such a Scribler who will ask that Question again which hath been already Answered. Did I not tell you in our last Dehate Continu­ation of the Friendly Debate, p. 409., that the Scottish Form of Prayer was printed here in Eng­land in the beginning of the late Wars? But he is not at leisure to read Books. He is a writer, forsooth; and cannot spare so much time from this great imployment, as to read the Book he writes against. For had it pleased him to be at this pains, there he might have heard of the strange thing, which he ima­gines no body ever saw, the Scots Form of Divine Service. But he will think, [Page 137]perhaps, that I wrote like himself, with­out any care at all; and transcribed that passage out of my own imagination, and not from the sight of my eyes. For your better information therefore, you may know, that there being some per­sons at Frankfort in Queen Maries time, who would admit no other Form of Prayers, but that in the English Book, Mr. John Knox (a principal Reformer in Scotland afterward) joyned with those who quarrell'd at it. But it appears by the story, that he was not against a Form of Divine Service, no, nor against all things in the English Book: But as he had an high esteem of the Compo­sers of it Witness the Com­mendation he gives Cranmer, whom he called, that Reverend Father in God. Ad­monition to the Profes­sors of the Truth in England, An. 1554. p. 51.; so he approved in great part of the work it self. A brief de­scription indeed of it being sent by him, and Whittingham to Mr. Calvin and his opinion of it return'd Jan. 22. 1555. Mr. Knox and four more were ordered to draw forth another order of Divine Service, which was the very same with that of Geneva. But part of the Con­gregation still adhering to the Book of England, after some Conference, they composed a new Order by the ad­vice of Mr. Knox: some of it taken out of the English Book, and other things [Page 138]added, as the State of the Church required; and to this all consented, as we are told in the Discourse of the Troubles of Frankfort Repri [...]ed here, 1642. P. 30, 31.. A little after, Dr. Cox coming thither, answered aloud, as the manner is here, which bred a new con­tention. And, to be short, the English Book was again established and continu­ed (though afterward they left off the use of the Ceremonies) and Mr. Kn [...] went to Geneva. There I find he was when Queen Mary dyed, being one of those who subscribed the Letter to the Church at Frankfort Decemb. 15. 1558., desiring that whatsoever offences had been given or taken might be forgotten, and that all might lovingly agree when they met in England. Not long after he went into Scotland, where some had begun a Reformation. More particularly it had been concluded by the Lords and Ba­rons, a little after their first Covenant In which they, who forsook Po­pery, in­gaged themselves to each other by a Common Bond., Decemb. 3. 1557. that it was thought expedient, advised and ordained, that in all Parishes of the Realm, the Common Prayer should be read weekly on Sundays, and other Festivals publickly in the Parish-Church; with the Lessons of the Old and New Testament, conforming to the ORDER OF THE BOOK OF COMMON [Page 139]PRAYER. And if the Curates of the Parishes be qualified, to cause them to read the same; if not, or they refuse, that the most qualified in the Parish use and read it History of the Church of Scotl. ascribed to Mr. Knox. Book 1. pag. 110.. In this Settlement Mr. Knox found them; and though the Queen discharged the Common Prayers, and forbad to give any portions to such as were the principal young men who read them; yet they continued to be read Ibid. Book 2. pag. 170. an. 1559.. And what was thus began by a few persons, was afterward compleated by a more Publick Decree. For by a General Assembly holden in December, 1562. it was ordained that one Ʋniform Order should be observed in the Ad­ministration of the Sacraments, according to the Order of Geneva. That is, as I understand it, the very same which Mr. Knox and the rest had used when they were there. And two year after Decemb. 1564. It was again ordained, that Ministers in the Ministration of the S [...]craments should use the Order set down in the Psalm Book Both these I have out of the Dispu­tation a­gainst the Assembly at Perth; and they are alledg­ed to prove there should be no kneel­ing at the Sacrament, because their Old Order did not pre­scribe it.; to which now that Form, I suppose, was annexed. Nor did Mr. Knox think himself above these Forms, but made use of them; as ap­pears from hence, That being desired before the Council, to moderate him­self [Page 140]in his Form of praying for the Queen; he related to them the most vehe­ment and most excessive manner of Prayer that he used in Publick, and, after he had repeated the words at length, con­cluded thus; This is the Form of Com­mon Prayer, as you your selves can wit­ness Ib. Book 4 p. 380. an. 1564.. The same History also records a Form of Publick Prayer used in the Church of St. Giles in Edenburgh, upon the Peace made with France July 8. 1560. p. 245.: and a [...] ther Form P. 287. at the Election of Su­perintendents. He also that wrote the Me­derate Reply An. 1646. to the City Remonstran [...] against Toleration, presents the Remon­strants in the last leaf of his Book, with a Form of Thanksgiving, used in the Church of Scotland, for their deliverance from the French by the English, An. 1575. B [...]t why do I mention these particular Prayers? There was Printed, as I said, 1641. the Service and Discipline, and form of Common Prayer, and Administration of the Sacraments used in the English Church of Geneva, received and approved by the Church of Scotland, and presented to the High Court of Parliament that year. And though in that there are now and then such passages as this, the Minister shall use this Confession, or the like in effect; [Page 141]yet they are not to be found in the anci­ent Books. I have been long Owner of a Form of their Divine Service, Printed at Edinburgh, Cum Privilegio Regali, 1594. and bound up with the Psalm-book, spo­ken of before; and there is no such al­lowance given in any place of the Book. The Confession is enjoyned in these words; Ane Confession that sall ga befoir the reading of the Law, and befoir every Exercise. And if you read the first Book of Discipline, presented to the Lords of the Secrct Council of Scotland 20 May. 1560. and by them confirmed Though never coa­firmed by Act of Par­liament. Mr. Knox complain­ing that some in chief Au­thority cal­led the same, De­vout Ima­ginations., you shall find they make some things utterly necessary, and others only profitable for the keeping the Kirk in good Order. Among the first sort are these, that the Word be truly preached, the Sacra­ments rightly administred, Common-Prayers Publickly made. These things be so necessary, say they, that without the same there is no Face of a visible Kirk. And that they mean the Form of Prayer agreed upon, appears by what follows in the end of that Chapter All this you may fiad in the ninth head, concerning the Policy of the Kirk.; In Private houses, we think expedient, that the most grave and discreet persons use the Common Prayers at morn and night, for the comfort and instruction of others. [Page 142]More particularly, when they tren of Discipline In the se­venth head, they advise, in case any man be excommunicated, his Friend should travel with him to bring him to knowledge of himself, and Command­ment given to all men to call to God for his Conversion: And that for this pur­pose, a solemn and special Prayer be dra [...], for then the thing would be more gra [...] done: They are their very words. By all which it is apparent what the consti [...] ­tion of their Church in the beginning was, and that later times have swerved from the Decrees of their Fore-fathers. So the Doctors and Professors of Aberde [...] In their Daplia's 1638. pag. 37. (and they no mean men neither) tel those who came to urge the Cove [...] on them: They, who have subscribed to it, misregard the Ordinances of our Reformen praefixed to the Psalm-Book, concerning the Office of Superintendents, or Bishops, Funeral Sermons, and set Forms of Prayer, which they appointed to be publickly read i [...] the Church. This was a thing so well known (though this Bold-face gives me the lye for supposing it) that Ludovi [...] Capellus Thes. Salmur. pars. 3. p. 658. had reason to write these words; At the Reformation, the Sacred Liturgie was purged from all Superstiti [...]s and Popish Idolatry, &c. and so there wert [Page 143]several Forms of holy Liturgie pure and simple, made and prescribed all about, by the several Authors of the Reformation; in Germany, France, England, ☞ SCOT­LAND, the Netherlands, &c. De­parting as little as possibly they could from the ancient Forms of the Primitive Church, which the reformed Charches have used hi­therto happily, and with profit, every one within the limits of their own Nation and Territories. Till at last there very lately arose in England certain morose, scrupu­lous, and nice, and delicate, that I say not, plainly superstitious persons, to whom the Liturgie of their Church hitherto used seemed fit for many, though most slight and frivolous causes, not only to be disapproved, but plainly abrogated. Bishop Hall—

Enough, enough. You will be as long and tedious as the Common Prayer.

If that were shorter, you would find the greater fault: and if I used fewer words, he would keep the greater quoile; He is not one of those whom a word will suffice. He will struggle and keep a stir even when he is overthrown; and he must be oppressed with Proofs and Arguments, or else he will not cease to quarrel and contend. I shall add [Page 144]therefore the words of Bishop Hall Apology against the Brownists, Sect. 37.; who justifying a stinted Form of Prayer against the Separatists, saith; Behold all Churches that were or are in the World are Partners with us in this Crime. O Idola­trous Geneva, and all French, SCOT­TISH, Danish, and Dutch Churches! All which both have their Forms with us, and approve them. The same you may find in a Divine of your own Mr. Sam. Clark col­lection of the lives of ten Divines p. 255., who tells us (in the Life of Mr. Capel) ‘That he was clear in his opinion for the law­fulness of the use of Set Forms of Prayer, according to the Tenent of all our best and most judicious Di­vines, and according to the practice of all Churches, even the best reformed, saith M. Rogers, now, and in all former Ages. So saith Mr. Hildersham: Yea, and Mr. Smith himself saith, upon the Lord's Prayer (though as then he was warping, and afterwards wandred far in the waies of Separation) that it was the practice of the ancient Church, and of all the Reformed Churches in Christendom, Of the Churches im­mediately after the Apostles; nay, (saith he) of the Church in the time of the Apostles, as may be probably gathered, out of 1 Cor. 14.26. This [Page 145]hath also been the practice of the best Lights that ever were set up in the Churches of Christ. It is very well known, that the flower of our own Divines went on in this way, when they might have done otherwise, if they had pleased, in their Prayers be­fore their Sermons.’ To this Testi­mony (which may serve also for other purposes) I would cast in more, but that you complain of weariness al­ready.

I had rather take your word than be troubled with them.

And will you take Mr. Impudence his word against all these Author ties? What say you? Was there never a time when they used a Form of Prayer in the Church of Scotland? Were they alway without, nay, against a Form when they were left to their own choice? Did their Queen force them to Common Prayers when she forbad the use of them? What do you think? Must we believe all these strong Proofs and solid Testimo­nies, or will he rub his forehead, and say, like himself, believe me before them all? In good time, Sir. Let him play never so many tricks; let him frisk about, and tumble up and down, and [Page 146]endeavour to make you sport, that you may forget the Question you came about: You will have more wit, I hope, than to let him deceive you any more. Remember; Whise the Ape dances on the Rope, that's the time which is taken to cut the Purses of the Spectators. But I think he may put all that he hath gain'd by his chattering and skipping about in his eye, and see never the worse. Or rather, he hath brought an old house, as we say, over his own, and others, head. For by flying to this refuge, which proves a refuge of lies, he confesses the force of my Argument that they break their Covenant, when they meet with­out a Form of Prayer; seeing the best Reformed Churches have used a Form, even, that of Scotland not excepted, after whose Pattern, I will prove, if you please, more fully, that they engaged to Reform.

We have no leisure now for such discourses.

Then Ile let it alone, and proceed to give you another proof of his Igno­rance of things past, though he have [...] half the modesty of Giles his Ape. E [...] you look into p. 243 of his Book, be [...] saith, the N.C. will make bold to tell us (be [Page 147]should have spoken only for himself, who we know is bold enough) that we use them more haraly than ever our selves were used: For though some of you, saith he, were sequestred, yet none of you were silenced, or commanded not to preach, or molested meerly for Preaching, as such. One would think this man should have good assurance for what he affirms thus bodly (to use his own language) and yet the direct contrary is upon Record, and to be seen in Print. For by a Declara­tion of 24. Nov. 1655 The late Protector required, not only that no person who had been sequestred for Delinquency, or been in Arms against the Parliament, or adhered unto, or abetted or assisted the Forces raised against them, should keep in their House or Family, as Chap­lain, or Schoolmaster any Sequestred or Ejected Minister, Fellow of a Colledge, or Schoolmaster; nor, which is more, permit any of their Children to be taught by such, &c. But that n [...] person, who for Delinquency or Scandal had been sequ [...]stred or ejected, should, from and after the first of January next ensuing, preach in any pub­lick place, or at any private meeting of any other persons than those of his own Family. Nor should baptize or administer the Lord's [Page 148]Supper, or Marry, or use the Book of common-Prayer, or the Forms of Prayer therein contained: upon pain of being pro­ceeded against, as by his Orders was provi­ded and directed, for securing the peace of the Common-wealth. This severity moved Doctor Gauden to make a pathetical ad­dress Febr. 4. following. unto him in the be half of so ma­ny undone persons; which was after­ward Printed. And at the same time the Primate of Ireland came to Town on purpose, and went in person to him to intercede for his indulgence towards them. He took also the sortest oppor­tunities of mediating for them, for the space of five or six weeks together; But was fain at last to retreat to his Country retirement (and so to his grave) with li [...]t'e success and less hope, to his great grief and sorrow: Using this expression to Doctor Gauden Postscript to his Peti­tionary Re­monstrance., that he saw some men had only guts, and no bowels Intesti­na, non vi [...]cera..

More words are needless in so plain a business.

I think so too. No two things can be more oppo [...]ite than his Declaration and the Protectors. For the one requires them not to preach, and the other saies they were not forbidden to preach. But [Page 149]this is his usual presumption: He thinks no body knows that which he doth not know; though alas! he falls so short of that Prophesying Ape, that he is ignorant even of things present, which yet he makes bold to prattle of. He would have the world believe, that there is but one N. C. who hath found some favour upon the account of his great modera­tion and peaceableness. And who should that be think you? Hear his own words and you will give a shrowd guess P. 225. There is one, and there is not a second, (as I know in England) who hath been taken in­to some consideration for the greatness of his Moderation and known Peaceableness of spirit, &c. I say, there is one (but he shall be nameless) that hath found some favour upon that account, &c. I say that one, for ought I know, is the only instance in England, whose Moderation in conjunction with what else might be thought to deserve some abatement of rigor, hath procured him so much favour as will find him bread. By these words I say, as I know, for ought I know; I suppose, you cannot but know the Gentleman. And if he do not know a thing, who should? you, may be, believe it upon his word, there is never another who hath been connived at but this ve­ry [Page 150]deserving person. And if he tell you on the other side, that Conformists were only shewn a great Rod heretofore (which he speaks of) but not one of them, that I do know, ever whipt with it They are his words, pag. 256., what would you desire more to perswade you of the present rigor in compare with the lenity (who would think it) that was used in those gracious days? Philagathus knows it not; this is sufficient, and you ought not to enquire further. Though some of us indeed who know little, must needs be so bold (by the leave of his Omniscience) as to say that we are acquainted with many who felt the smart of that Rod. And I, for my part, who am very Ignorant, I confess, in a great many things, know more than one or two that have enjoy­ed the same indulgence with this rare person, whom he speaks of. And when he tells us his name, he shall know theirs, if he desire it.

I cannot tell what to say to these things. I wish he would talk less of his own knowledg.

But you know what to do, unless you still think he knows all that he talks of. And that is, not to believe him, when he tells you of hundreds of [Page 151]Families, nay, the Families of many hun­dreds P. 236, of so many hundreds P. 234. of Mini­sters, that have hardly meat to fill their bellies, or clothes to cover their na­kedness. You would think by his re­peating it so often, that he had counted them; but we have reason to think he spoke at random. You must first Ad­mit P. 233. one supposal, and then he will make another; and tell you it may well be sup­posed there were 1500, &c. who, as it is probable, having most of them families, have little or no temporal estate; and then he can roundly set down hundreds, many hundreds. A wonderful discovery, and a ready way to make thousands as easie as hundreds at pleasure. Much like that of the complainers in John Lilburn's case, who talkt of a hundred discoveries that might be made of the peoples miseries. And the reply which one Declara­tion of some proceedings of Joh. Lilb. 1648. pag. 60. made to them may serve him. Indeed it is true: they may be made with ease. It is but to sit down and write an hundred particulars, what come uppermost, (or to make sup­posals as you think good) taking no care whether they be true or no; and then there will be an hundred such discoveries made.

He did not make supposals sure without reason.

Yes. And will shew you anon there is reason against them. But for the present, we will let that pass, and see if he can give us better Information in greater matters. These are all trifles, you may think, which he doth not mind: But the Covenant — that's a thing he hath studied without all doubt, and knows the bottom of the busi­ness.

Or else he is skilled in no­thing.

And yet how unfit he is to be your Advocate in that cause, appears by the lame account which he gives us of many things belonging to it. Look into his Book, p. 259. and there you will find, as if he meant to debate the business tho­roughly, and had some weighty matter to impart, He begins with an O ye, say­ing, Good Sir, hear how fair the Conces­sions of the N. C. are, and then judg whe­ther there be not a just ground and founda­tion for peace and amity betwixt you and them. Well, I lissen Sir, What have you to say? Why? First of all, he tells us, the N. C. do hold, that the Covenant binds them to nothing that is sinful. A marvelous great condescension: like that p. 153, where he tells us, the N. C. [Page 153]are in charity with all the Saints. They are much obliged to you for your great hu­mility and courtesie. It is a singular fa­vour, that you will be pleased to be in charity with them: and his Majesty is much beholden to you, that you will not think your selves bound to sin. But his Friends would have taught him to have granted more (only he knows lit­tle, as I told you, of what hath been said or done) and bid him add, that it doth not bind them to go beyond their place and cal­ling to do good Propos. to his Maje­sty, p. 12.. And so much for that. Let's prick up our ears now, and hear what he tells us in the second place; for he gapes as if he would hold forth some notable point. Nay Sir, saith he, the N. C. or many of them (for he dare not be confident of all) do think, that if an Oath contain never so many good and ne­cessary things, and but one that is bad and sinful, that one sinful thing is not to be done for the sake of all the good P. 260.. Mark how timorously the Gentleman walks up on the Ice (which he hath done before now They are his words, p. 257.) and what great care he takes that he catch not a fall. He will not pass his word for all the N. C. There are, you may be sure, many of them, he cannot tell how many, who have arrived to such [Page 154]a degree of honesty, that they will no do a sinful thing together with many good things. But some it seems, be fears, are of another opinion, and think they may do a sinful thing for the sake of a great many good. These are brave lads: And I doubt not, whosoever they are, but they will find a great many good things to bring to pass, when they have a mind to make another Rebellion. But this is not all; he desires we should understand in the third place, that the N. C. or some of them do yield this, that they are not bound by an Oath or Co­venant to that which is impossible to be done Ib.. Doth he not advance very much in his Concessions? and come nearer and nearer to us? When some of them (for any thing he knows, I must in cha­rity put in, for his relief) think they are bound to do even impossible things. Nay, many of them may be of that mind, for he dares not venture so far as he did before. It is not the N. C. or many of them, but only the N. C. or some of them think they are not bound, if the matter of the Oath be something that is impossible. Then, as I said, some, nay many he gives us leave to think may be of the contrary perswasion. And what [Page 155]desperate people are those? What will not they attempt, who are not deterr'd by the apprehension of impossibilities in their way? Wo be to us, when these men are angry. But Lastly, the good Gentleman was in such a terrible taking when he was writing of this matter, or else so loath to come near us; that he dare not so much as say roundly, that the N. C. hold a Father, Husband, Master, or Prince, may make void either the Oaths or Vows made by their Children, Wives, Servants, or Subjects without their consent, in things that are subject to their Authority. No, pardon him there, he dare not go so farr, he only says, in a confused manner, that the N. C. or some of them are of this P. 261. opinion. He seems here to be a little sensible of his Ig­norance, and so durst not speak with so much confidence as he doth when he hath less reason. For if he had but read a Book Ames Cases of Consc. Book 4. Q. 11. Resp. 2. that used very early to be put into the bands of young Scho­lars, he would have found this Case de­termined very resolutely in those very words which I now used: and then I perswade my self he would have con­cluded all the N. C. to be of that mind. But he resolved to be very wise and [Page 156]cautious; though he spoil'd all by that means. He dare go no further in the beginning of his Discourse about this matter P. 258., than to tell us, ‘that some who cannot renounce the Covenant, are heartily sorry that ever the taking of that Covenant was pressed upon any body, because the multiplying of Oaths of that nature, doth usually end in the multiplying of Perjuries through mens breach thereof.’ He gives us leave to think then, according to his opinion, that most are not sorry, or not heartily sorry, but would make no great matter of doing the same a­gain. What though Perjuries follow? It is but keeping a Day of Humiliation, and bewailing all the rash Oaths and Perjuries, and then they for their part are very innocent, and washt as white as the Snow in Salmon, as he saith they are by the Act of Oblivion Pref. p. 32.. But wo be to the poor Cavaliers, who could not compound for their Estates unless they took the Vow and Covenant; as some made bold to tell his Majesty in their Proposals (which were since the Act of Indemnity, and therefore I may speak of them) Not presuming, say they, to meddle with the Consciences of those [Page 157]many of the Nobility and Gentry, and others that adhered to his late Majesty, in the late unhappy Warrs, who at their Composi­tions took the Vow and Covenant; we only crave your Majesties clemency to our selves and others, who believe themselves to be under its Obligation. A greater presum­ption than that which they would a­void; to remind his Majesty how bar­barously his Friends had been used (their Consciences being squeezed and oppressed; as well as their Bodies and Estates) even then when they were pleading for his favour. But my busi­ness is only with him. And what do you think of your Champion? Hath he not done you rare service in declaring your Opinion about Oaths and Cove­nants? Will he not make an excellent Casuist, and be fit to be put in the Chair to read Lectures for the satisfy­ing of Conscience? Let not the Schools loose such a precious Engine as this. It is a thousand pities that he should be confined to the Trade of making Saw­ces, of giving relishes, and trimming out Dishes: (or if you will have them so cal­led, Discourses) He can unty your knots, and tell where the Hinge of the Contro­versie turns Preface, p. 40. I have given you Cardo Contro­versiae be­tween the C and N. C., (and that in Latine too) [Page 158]and furnish you with so many Disses, Diffs, and Div's, as shall give great con­tent, and make the feircest Disputers presently shake hands. For you see in four words, he hath laid a Foundation of Peace and Amity between the C. and N. C. though he be not yet come so far as to determine positively whether be­tween all, or many or only some. That you must think is reserved for another Lecture. And yet I perceive there are some testy people, who think he hath done no more to make an accord among us, by his solemn handling this case of Conscience; than Norandino of Savig­nano Whom we find in the Hospital of Incura­ble, &c. 1600. p. 54. did to the composing of a Con­troversie in Italy.

If he were long about it, pray let's not hear it.

No, he had done presently. For there being a great Disputation held in the City of Cesena, this Lubber pas­sing by chance through the place where all the Disputants were met together, cry'd with a loud voyce make room (which immediately he made for him­self with a good Quarter-staff) and give ear to me. I hold this Conclusion, that Savignano is not distant from Cesena a­bove ten miles. And next I maintain [Page 159]this other, that Savignano is of the Mas­culine Gender, and Cesona of the Fae­minine. And I'le also stand to this, That more people will give ear to me who am but a fool, than to you who would ap­pear to be wise. And last of all—

Hold you there. He will spoil all again, I much doubt, after he hath spoken so wise a word.

It is well noted: and therein the most are fully agreed. But setting aside the Quarter-staff, which is a notable weapon, to put an end to a Disputation, I think Norandino, and your Phil. have much alike abilities for composing Dif­ferences. Only the Italian had more confidence, and spoke positively: but the English-man (contrary to his wont) spoke with greater diffidence and di­strust of himself; which may be an argument of a little more wisdom.

I have seen indeed this Sen­tence cited out of Thucydides, That Ig­norance makes men bold, and Knowledg makes them timorous.

There is a great deal of truth in it. But for all that, the Bold fellows carry the day: for they are thought very knowing; and those that dare not talk confidently of all things, the vulgar ac­count [Page 160]very ignorant. So that, whether out of Ignorance, or much Policy and Knowledg of the Peoples humour, you may determine; your Knight hath ta­ken the right course; who very often sets a good face, as we say, upon the matter, and speaks with great assurance, right or wrong: And in this, I think, no man hath a faculty beyond him.

Good now let's have no more of this; for I was tired long ago with it.

Pray stretch your Patience a little farther: I will not exercise it too much. Do you not think, by his Discourse, that he is very well acquainted with me?

I should think most inwardly.

So would any body else. For he can tell you my private opinions, my studies, and what I am able to do as well as if I had taken him into my bo­som. Such an Ass, it seems, I am to dis­cover and open my heart to a stranger: or rather such a silly piece of Impu­dence is he, as to venture to talk by guess, and alway to take such bad di­rection as to guess amiss. He tells you for example, that I am one of those whose judgment leads them to have a great respect for Scientia media P. 219..

What's that?

You may ask him, if you think he can tell you. It is sufficient for me to let you know that I have so little re­spect for it, that I look upon it as an idle invention. So wide a distance there is between his knowledg of me, and my knowledg of my self. However, he can tell you greater matters than this, and confident he is, that once I expounded the Scripture according to Mr. Calvin, and now I understand them according to Grotius.

He only wishes that be not your meaning, p. 121.

That's a way he hath of telling you his mind, and conveying the belief of a thing into yours. For he makes no bones afterward P. 288. to say, that I tell my Hearers, it is a singular Priviledg that they have the Gospel so plainly expounded to them, i. e. as Grotius and I expound it, but not as it is expounded by those Divines that consult Calvin and Beza, and twenty more such worthy Interpreters. He should have taken the courage to make them up seven and twenty You set H. Grotius (for ought I know) a­gainst Twenty seven men who are not of his mind, p. 11,; which, for ought he knows, is as true as the other. Espe­cially since he is so hardy as to tell you that I adore Grotius, p. 269. and Idolize [Page 162]him, p. 279. and trust to him, and rely upon him, as if he were God himself, p. 10, And all this, though I never so much as named him, nor have any greater ac­quaintance with him than with other good Authors, nor so much neither; having gain'd some considerable know­ledg, I hope, of the Holy Scriptures, before I advised with him, or any that he hath mention'd.

Strange! I thought he had been your Oracle.

My God you should have said: And your Philagathus, some great Geni­us who stands at my elbow every time I take down a Book: And sees me throw Mr. Calvin aside, but making a lowly reverence, and kissing his Works when Grotius comes to hand; or rather kneel­ing down, as if I meant to worship, as well as read him.

I cannot tell how to excuse this boldness.

Which is so great and shameless, that if he wore a Steel Vizor, it could not be more impudent. He hath a vile suspicion, he tells you, that Grotius his Notes upon the Canticles did me a great deal of harm; which is a marvel, seeing I never read them in all my life.

How? not read them?

It is as I tell you, upon my honest word.

And yet he is not content to mention it once, but repeats it again P. 122, 195.

And would put a jealousie into you, that I have such a fire kindled in me, as makes me burn with desire to ofter Sacrifice to another Idol. I am a shamed to set down his words, they are so lewd. Nor can I imagine what should bring such things to his mind which are so far from my thoughts, but his own filthy inclinations; or what should make him mention some things Batche­lors, pret­tiaess, Wives, &c. See p. 23, 122, 153., so often, and in such a manner as he doth, but his love to smutty Discourse. He is not content to make mouths at me (of whom he hath so little knowledg) but in effect at St. Paul himself; who commends those that preserved themselves Holy in a single life P. 153.. As if he placed perfe­ction in wedlock; or was of that Gen­tleman's mind who taught the people this lesson in the late times Some Flashes of Lightaing, &c. Sermo [...] upon 1 Cor. 11.10, 11, 12, 1648. P. 172.: God needs such a vessel as Christ to put him­self in. Christ needs such a vessel as you to put himself in. God would run every way, settle no where, be bounded in nothing if he did not settle in his Son. The Son [Page 164]would rest no where, have no content, if it were not in thee. Men would run every way, rest no where, if not bounded by a wife.

Why do you not let such abo­minable stuff lie buried in oblivion?

I had rather have been ignorant of it, than put to the trouble to detest it. But since it is divulg'd, and comes in my way, I thought it a piece of very fit dirt, to stop such a foul mouth as his withal.

I wish he had not open'd it in these matters.

Nor would he; if he had been in­dued with a little of that virtue which St. Bernard so much commends in his last Sermon upon the Canticles: Modesty I mean, which he calls among other things, the Praise of Nature, the Sign of all Honesty, the First fruits of Virtue, the Sister of Continence, the Preserver of Pu­rity, the Keeper of our Fame, the Beauty of Life, and the special Glory of the Consci­ence. But his whole Book [...]s a stranger to this excellent quality, and writ in such a manner, that they who can like it are in a worse condition, in my judgment, than those who love to feed upon coals and ashes. He is come to [Page 165]such a pitch of boldness, that he will undertake to tell you not only what Authors I read, but how much I have read in my Books: And that, for in­stance, I had no more wherewith to charge T.W. than what I produced Pag. 51.. Which is the greater piece of impu­dence, because I have sufficient reason to conclude that he hath not read his Works himself, and so cannot tell what absurdities I have observed. Nor hath he read W. B. later Works, though he commend them for the good and sa­voury passages that are in them. His former P. 194. indeed he thinks he hath read, I say he thinks (for he repeats it) that he hath read more in them, than I pre­tend to have done. A Huge piece of Learning! He might have safely left out his, I think, and spoken more con­fidently; for if he had read but one line, it would have been enough to make good his word: Because (what­ever I have read) I have pretended No­thing at all in that matter, but spoken only of his new Sermons. But he will make you an amends for this diffidence; for he hath a great secret to tell you with open mouth concerning the Con­forming Ministers; some of which, he [Page 166]saith, are known or judged to be arrant Socinians Pag. 70.. And how doth he know it, think you? Is it by Revelation? Verily (to use one of his own words) for any thing that I can perceive, he doth not know it, but only suspect it. And then how dare he, or others, judg them to be Socinians? Mark, I pray, his partition, They are either known, or judged, to be such; that is, they are judged to be so sometimes, though they are not known to be so. These are men of a very nice and tender Conscience, who take upon them to sit in the Judgment Seat, and pronounce sentence of Condemna­tion upon their Neighbours before they understand their Cause, or have any assurance that they are guilty of the Crime. When such men have Power proportionable to their Malice; Lord have mercy upon us. If judgment and knowledg be divided in this manner, who is there that may not be voted to destruction? They will clap their hands and cry as a man goes along, thinking no harm; A Socinian, a Socinian, and straightway the Hounds are let loose—

Use, I beseech you, more civil terms.

You have forgot, I perceive, your [Page 167]own phrase, so common in the late times, when you incouraged one another to go a Parson hunting. But you will re­member it when you have power, and the people, as I was saying, will run like so many Dogs to tear the Innocent in pieces. For my part, I wish he may be questioned by those who have Au­thority about this matter, that he may either make good his suggestion, or else be branded for a malicious Scri­bler.

There is nothing of malice, I am confident, in his words.

I crave your pardon, if I do not believe you: I have cause to think he knows not One. For among all my ac­quaintance, I could never meet with a man that knows, or suspects, so much as one single Minister to be of that per­swasion. And one would think, that Conformists should be known to one another, better than to such triflers as he. Therefore I cannot but look on this as a piece of his disingenuity and spight, (of which I told you, I would give an instance.) Socinian he knows is an odious name, and so he would willingly fasten it on some of us, if he could: the better to stir up the Peoples hatred against all [Page 168]those whom they please to imagine men of that strain. And for the very same cause, I doubt not, he talks of our Idolizing Grotius. It is a popular word, as was said the last time we met toge­ther, which he hath not yet forgot. Whensoever they would have any thing hated, it is but saying that such and such make an Idol of it, and immediately the People will abhor both it and them. Thus they said, we made an Idol of the late King. And you may easily know with a little recollection, who it was that told a Gentleman when he said Grace, and pray'd God would bless the King, (a little before his Death) Your Idol shall not stand long. But they dare not talk of Kings now: and yet the People must be perswaded that we have still some Idol to worship, and who should it be but Grotius? (a sug­gestion as false as the Father of Lies can invent) together with another Image, like that of Nobuchadnezzar's, Dan. 4.32. which, saith he, you too much adore, and would have others do the like Pag. 14.. ‘But it can no more stand before the more select parcels of another Statue which you decry, than Dagon could before the Ark.’ No, it trembles and quakes [Page 169]already, (witness your own fears, saith he,) the very sound of Idol, and Image, and Dagon, is able to do the business. It is as strong as a mighty wind to stir up the Peoples Passions, and put them into a hurry against us: Especially when they are perswaded the Ark is among these men; or if the Ark of God be taken, and the Ordinances a while re­moved by the Philistines, (you know the meaning of this Gibberish) it will return again with a vengeance.

Take heed, Good Sir, you are too bold with the Scripture, The last time you walkt on the Battlements of Blasphemy Pag. 16., when you approved of that saying, A man may talk nothing but Scripture, and yet speak never a wise word.

That's another of these mens po­pular Arts, to cry Blasphemy, Blasphe­my: For then the People think they smell the Apocalyptick Beast. They can understand also what the Battlements of Blasphemy are, though I cannot. Some frightful thing I warrant you; which makes their hair stand an end, or their heads turn round; if they did not so before. Thus they dealt with Bishop Hall, who having said in his Humble [Page 170]Remonstrance, that Episcopacy had con­tinued in this Island ever since the first Plantation of the Gospel, thought good to add these words, P. 21. Of the Humb. Remonstr. Certainly, except all Histories, all Authors fail us, nothing can be more certain than this Truth. Here S [...]ect. cries out very rudely. Os Du­rum! Nothing more certain? What? Is it not more certain that there is a God? Is it not more certain that Christ is God-Man? Is it not more certain that Christ is the only Saviour of the World? Nothing more certain? Must this be an Article of our Creed? &c. And so they run on; accusing these words as bordering upon Blasphemy; which are no more (as he told them in his Answer) than what eve­ry body say in their hourly discourse, when they would confidently affirm any Truth. Nay, so carelessly do they throw out this word against those who oppose their conceits, that we are told by one Anatome of Dr. Gau­den, 1660., ‘to charge the Covenant as contradi­ctory to former Oaths, and as tending to apparent Perjury, is such a mani­fest Blasphemy against so sacred as Oath, as cannot but be abhorr'd by all sober Christians.’ These Patterns your Phil. exactly follows; aggravating every thing though never so harmless, [Page 171]with the like heap of Questions, and the charge of Blasphemy. He is as like them as if he had been spit out of their mouths, as we commonly speak, using the same witless and malicious intimati­ons: (as the Bishops words are) only he seems to have a more viperous incli­nation, and every where goes about seeking out hairs upon Egg-shells.

You must not think to pass this over so smoothly.

Why? St. Hierom speaks bolder words, and I never yet heard that he was a blasphemer. By a perverse Interpreta­tion, saith he, the Scripture becomes of the Gospel of Christ, the Gospel of Man, or which is worse, the Gospel of the Devil Upon the first to the Galatians.. For which he gives this reason; the Gospel consists not in the words of the Scri­ptures, but in the sense; not in the sur­face, but in the marrow; not in the leaves of words and phrases, but in the root of reason.

But he that talks nothing but Scripture, gives no sense, but meerly recites the bare Text.

I remember his words, and they are wondrous wise. What doth he recite the Text for? Is it not to some purpose or other?

Yes sure.

Then he gives the words of Scri­pture a sense by applying them to his purpose. Which yet may be so wide not only from the meaning of the Scripture, but from all reason, that it may be very idle stuffe.

But still there is good sense in Scripture words.

He hath made them his words; having separated them from their sense. And it is an easie matter to shew you a Discourse all in Scripture words and phrases, which you your self shall call nonsense. Such there were in the Primi­tive Times, as we may gather from Irenae­us; who tells us of some, that rather than their own Dreams shall want authority, would cite the Holy Scripture to give them countenance: though they were no better imployed all the time, than those that wreath a Rope of Sand [...].. For they dissolved the parts and members of Truth, by transposing the words from their proper places, and putting them out of their natural order and connexi­on. They cheated the people with scraps of Scripture set together after their own fansie: and called their Ima­ginations the Word of God, because [Page 173]they spoke the syllables and phrases of it. Which was just, saith he, as if an excellent workman should make a Pi­cture of a Prince, consisting of many precious Stones so artificially put toge­ther, that they exactly represented his person. And when he had done, [...], &c. L. 1. p. 32. ano­ther should come and transpose these Stones, and set them in another order; till he had made the Figure of a Dog, or a Fox, and then should confidently affirm, that this is the very Picture of the King which the excellent Artist made. How would you confute such a man? He shews you all the materials; the very same Stones which the work­man used. There is not one of his own putting in, he hath not made the least addition out of his own brains; and therefore it must needs be the Kings Pi­cture. For any thing I can see, accor­ding to this Gentlemans Discourse, the simple people must believe him, and, as Irenaeus speaks in the same place, re­verence this Filthy Fox, which he hath made by misplacing the very same Stones, as if it were the true Image of their Prince. This is a lively resem­blance of the practice of those men who (as he goes on) tear the Word of God [Page 174]in pieces, and plucking some from this Book [...]., some from that, accommodate it to their Tales and old Wives Fables, saying, This is the Word of God. There cannot be a more exact description of the Age wherein we live, in which (as Bishop Hall told Robinson) you joyn Scri­ptures, just as you separated your selves. And when you have packed together a great number of them according to your fansie and humor, then you think you have spoken the Word of God, though sometime never a word of sense. And now I call to mind the Author of that saying which he carps at, only he saith scarce, and I said never a wise word: and that is Dr. Jackson in his Book of the Original of Ʋnbelief Ch. 47. p. 425., where be hath a large Discourse to shew how both the Jew, the Romanist, and the Se­paratist are wont to dream upon the Ho­ly Scripture: and there is no Blasphemy in it that I can find. The sum of it is this. Musing and dreaming are very near of kin: the Fansie in both being apt to weave in every circumstance or occurrent that hath the least semblance or connexion with the principal mat­ter represented, or thought upon. For in Dreams, the principal sense, which [Page 175]should judg, being fast bound with sleep, cannot examine the intimations given by the fansie, and so every thing passes current which it suggests. And in Mu­sing the fansie is so contracted within it self, that it can neither receive Instru­ction from the Understanding, nor give it perfect Information from Represen­tations made by the External Senses, and so its follies are not corrected. But les the Original of these erroneous imagi­nations or fallacies be what they will; this is certain, that they insinuate them­selves after the same manner into such as dream, and such as rather muse than meditate upon the Scripture. Nor is there any other means to prevent their Insinuations, beside vigilant and atten­tive alacrity to sift and examine every circumstance, by setting our thoughts a work to countersway our extemporary conceits or apprehensions, with all o­ther contrary inducements possible. He that thinks of nothing, but of con­firming his own conclusion or appre­hension will presently perswade him­self, the Word of God (especially if he hear it alledged or quoted by ano­ther) speaks just so as he thinks, and profers it self as a witness to give testi­mony [Page 176]to the truth of his present thoughts. Thus the superstitious Pal­mister, who foretels the changes to be in your life, by looking into the lines or wrinkles in the palm of your hand, thinks he hears the foundation of his Art in the sound of Moses his words, Exod. 13.9. Job 37.7. And it shall be for a sign upon thy hand, or of Job's, He sealeth up the hand of every man. The Ignorant Priest likewise, that searched for the word Mass in the Holy Scriptures, skipt for joy, and cryed I have found it, I have found it, when he read those words of St. Andrew, Joh. 1.41. We have found the Messias. And I may add W. B. in his musings upon an unbelieving heart, when he came to think that it is rash, suddain, and maketh hast, presently applied those words of David to this purpose, Psal. 31.22. Psal. 116.11. Seas. Truths, p. 218. I said in my haste, I am cut off from thy sight; and I said in my hast, all men are Lyars.

And pertinently enough: are they not?

No: For by haste in the former place, he means his sudden flight from Saul, which he thought could not be so swift, as that he should make an escape, but his Enemies without a mar­vellous Providence would cut him off. [Page 177]And in the other Flight like to this, he had some reason to lay, that there was no Falth in Man, when his own Son whom he loved, and had so much obliged, and his old and trusty Counsellor proved false and rebelled against him. Some other words of David, when he was in the same danger and distress, this Phi­lag. in his dreaming way of thinking, applies to Gods deserting mens Souls. And generally when they discourse of Humane Reason, they imagine it is that very thing which St. Paul calls the wisdom of the Flesh. In so much that a noted person, gives this reason why men should order nothing in the Worship of God, because the wisdom of the Flesh is at enmity with God: and God hath no rea­son to trust an Enemy in moulding his Service. All Humane Inventions have a malignity in them, and smell of the Foun­tain from whence they come. He gives this reason also, why they should invent nothing for Ornament in Gods Service, because God hath chosen the mean and base things of this world, 1 Cor. 1 27. This is to run after phantasms, and to triamph in words, as a great m [...]n of another Na­tion speaks. To bu [...]ld Observations upon three or four (sometimes but one) [Page 178]little syllables, which signifie nothing but what custom without any reason pleases, and are of no more value than use gives them. And thus, as Dr. Jack­son there observes, Brains apt to busie themselves about curious thoughts or scrupulosities, generally frame such compositions of sacred lines, as men in a Frenzy, or other like grievous distem­per, do out of scrabled walls or painted cloth. The one make foolish or mon­strous Pictures of true colours, the other draw senseless and ridiculous Inferences out of Divine antecedents. And unless I had compared the marginal Quotati­ons of some Anabaptists and Schismati­cal Discourses with the Text, and both with the conclusion intended by their Authors, I should hardly have con­ceived it possible for a man to speak no­thing but Gospel, and yet to speak scarce a true or a wise word. You may find the same Observation in Mr. Bernard Separa­tists schism, [...] 26., (whom we spake of the last time) who tells us the Separatists that then were, to the simple would seem to speak nothing but Scripture, when indeed the main point considered, they speak nothing less.

Pray trace this folly no fur­ther.

I should not have troubled my self at all with these dreamers, were it not that they are so extreamly proud and insolent.

No such matter.

Yes: The most common and ordi­nary people are so well train'd up to a conceit of themselves, that though they will acknowledg one of our Ministers to have more Learning than themselves, and to have studied longer, (a great piece of humility!) yet they will signifie, by the shaking of their heads, how much they pity their ignorance in the mind of God: and peremptorily conclude, that no man that is not of their Sect, knows so much of the Will of God as they do. And the stronger reason (as the fore-named learned Divine ob­serves) is brought against them, the for­warder they are to appeal from Rea­son to the Scripture, and that is to be interpreted by the Spirit, and that is in themselves alone: and we are told that Learning will do men no service to un­derstand the Divine Mysteries.

This is a thing that we are sorry for, as much as you.

Are you so? Why did not your Philag, then so much as approve of the [Page 180]Reprehension I gave to these mens vain Imaginations? nor ingenuously confess that the Nation came to be over-run with folly, by such means as I related; but skips over all that without so much as touching of it. This is an argument of his disingenuity, and study to serve a Party; that rather than say a word against it, he will let the most sottish people think themselves wise, nay, in­courage them to imagine we blaspheme, if we tell them, they talk foolishly in Scripture phrase.

Why do you call them sottish? it is a harsh word.

Why may not that be allowed to me which was to Melancthon in times past? who feared not to say, that this is the sottish or ungraceful discourse, which is opposed by the Apostle to speech seasoned with Salt Col. 4.6. See him upon the place.. For by Salt he understands a judgment rightly and dextrously applying the Word of God. As in our Saviours words, Mark 9. ult. he thinks by Salt, is meant, the Word of God Verbum Dei rectè intelle­ctum ad­hibito ju­dicio, seu discrimine, &c.rightly understood, by using judgment and discerning, lest it be transformed into profane imaginations, &c. and the native signification of the words be changed. But Phil. stands not upon judgment and di­scretion, [Page 181]the Word of God applied by imagination will do as well. His Salt is all of another sort, which in truth is but sottish fansie. Let the world be still abused with the pretence of Visions and Revelations, what cares he? He had rather indeed they would let these words alone Pag. 47.: But if they have a list to use them, he is ready to offer his ser­vice for their defence. Though the world be cheated by them never so much; he will stand by them, and main­tain it that they mean honestly. For what is there, that he cannot make good by his it may be's, and such like tools? It is possible, saith he, that W. B. might mean not elevating, but humbling Visions of God. Say you so Sir? Deal sincerely I beseech you: Did you read the place? What say you? Do not hum and haw, but speak like a man, and say, whether did you look or no, into that Book which you undertook to justifie, to see what kind of Visions he spoke of? If not; with what Conscience durst you become his Advocate, and take upon you to maintain you knew not what? Is this your way of writing Books? It gives men occasion to think you scribled this to get a little mony, which you [Page 182]hoped W. B's. Friends would present you withal, not caring whether it were true or false. If you did; then I ask you, where were your eyes, that you could not see the instance whereby he explains himself, and that is of St. Peter's be­holding Christ transfigured, and saying, It is good to be here? Was this an hum­bling Vision, with which he was so transported? Or doth he speak only of Gods giving counsel and comfort to his people (as you would have us think) when he expressly calls them Times of Raptures and Revelations? All this is within the compass of five or six lines in W. B's Book; which makes me think it could not have escaped him, if he had lookt into it. And therefore I am of the opinion, that according to his wont­ed boldness, he wrote at all adventure; knowing very well the humour of those he had to please, who would magnifie and cry up any thing for an Answer, though never so silly, nay, never so false. And though the impudent cheat be now discovered, it is possible (to speak in his Style) that he hopes to escape well enough. For they can pardon such sins one to another, and shall still be re­puted Saints, though they lie and de­ceive, [Page 183]and dissemble the Truth. If he had had so much honesty as he makes a show of, he would have lookt upon this as a fit place to caution every one against such bold pretences to Visions and Revelations; which he knows are very dangerous, and not therefore to be wink­ed at, because they are zealous people who talk of them. No body seemed to have a greater zeal than Tho. Muncer. He was for reforming even the Refor­mation. He held Luther himself to be too cold: and said his Sermons savour­ed not enough of the Spirit. And by pretending to more frequent and fami­liar conversation with God, and that he had Divine Revelations, and that God declared by Visions his Will to the Saints, he got the reputation of a man extra­ordinarily inspired: and you know what was the end of it. He had a command from the Heavenly Father (that was his phrase) to root up, and destroy, all the Princes and Magistrates of the Earth, be­cause that Christ said, the Kings of Na­tions; to abolish also the Execution of justice, because we read, resist not evil; and to forbid all Oaths, to determine Controversies, because he said, Swear not at all, &c. He had the company also of one [Page 184] Phifer, who used to talk as much of his Dreams, as the other of his Visions; especially of one, wherein he saw an infinite number of Rats and Mice, which he destroyed: This he expounded to be a commandment from the Hea­venly Father to destroy all the Nobility, who, he said, like so many Vermine did eat up the poor people. And what by their professed detestation of sin, their great compassion to the common sort, their soothing and stroking their followers, by appropriating to them all the savourable Titles, the good words, and the gracious promises in Scripture, and casting the contrary alway on the heads of those that opposed them; they strangely prevailed. The common ac­clam [...]t [...]ons of the people, whereby they followed these deceivers, were such as these. Verily, these are the Men of God. These are the true and sincere Prophets of the Lord. And if any such Prophet, or Man of God, suffered most justly by order of the Law for Felony, Rebellion, or Murder; the multitude were so strangely inchanted, that they lamented the taking away of Gods dear Servants; and were affected, as if Sr. Ste­phen, or some such blessed man had been again Martyr'd.

All this, and a great deal more, if he did not know, he might easily have in­form'd himself, even out of the little Papers printed in the beginning of our Warrs. If he did know it, he thought good to dissemble it, for fear of offen­ding some choice ones, as they call them­selves: though in the mean time the Kings Crown may be in danger, if the fansie of Visions and Revelations get in­to mens heads: Then on a suddain, they may think, the still waters are to be turn­ed into blood; and that the very moment is come before they were aware of it, that the quiet people are to be put into a commotion. For W. B. Tenth Sermon, of Prevent­ing Mercy. 1667. p. 488. in another place tells you, that God prevents mens thoughts in the Revelation of the Truths of the Times. ‘What greater blessing than for a man to be well acquainted with the Truth of the Times, in oppo­sition to Antichrist? Now says John in the first of Revel. I heard a voyce be­hind me; before I was aware God prevented me, acquainting me with these Truths of the Revelations.’ You know very well (unless you have for­got our last Discourse) what he means by the Truth of the Times. It is the wit­nessing work, and the Witnesses having [Page 186]power over the waters to turn them into blood. The time he told you is near; and here he teaches you to look for a suddain Revelation, such as the Apostle had when he thought not of it, that is, to follow a strong fansie, when it comes into your head to go about the great work.

His meaning may be better than his words.

So may mine, Philag. supposes. And yet he is very angry with me, merely out of a fear that godliness may be thought to be derided, though I did not intend it: Why then had he not the like zeal against W. B. if he be thoroughly sincere? Why did he not at least tell him, that whatsoever he may mean, the people will think he looks for new Re­velations. Or, Why did he not bid the people beware of him? No, not a word of this, I warrant you. What? tell such a man as he of his faults? or teach his people such things as they do not like? How shall they live then, if they be so zealous? Let the world run wild; so they be but maintain'd, it is no matter.

God doth sometimes reveal things secret to persons of eminent Ho­liness. [Page 187]Did not Bishop Ʋsher foretel the very year and day wherein the Irish Re­bellion begun, no less than 30 year be­fore?

Now God help him. He is drawn, I see, to the very dregs. First, he dare not confidently averr the truth of his story: but after his usual manner begins it with, If I mistake not, Bishop Ʋsher Pag. 47., &c.— Now I have shewn you, that it is no difficult thing for him to mistake: And it is very probable, that he is mistaken here. For Mr. Clark, (a Friend of yours who writ his Life, and knew of these matters as much as this Gentleman) could tell us no more but this; That in the year 1624. he said be­fore many witnesses, that he was perswaded the greatest stroke to the Reformed Church was yet to come, and that the time of the utter ruine of the Roman Antichrist should be when he thought himself most secure Collect. of the Lives of ten Di­vines, pag. 226.. But admit there was such a Prediction; What doth it make to his purpose? Doth W. B. speak of such V [...]sions and Revelations as this in that Discourse? Or must his common Hearers be sup­posed to be under Visions and Revelations, and know things to come, because one great man foretold once in his days one [Page 188]great Revolution? The man himself was a little sensible of the danger of such Sermons. But mark, how he comes off. What God seldom doth (as drying up the Red-Sea) and what he no where promises to do, men should seldom speak of as a thing they expect. It seems the Red-Sea hath been dryed up more than once, and so you may say, though but seldom, that you expect the like again, the drying up (suppose) of the Sea between Callis and Dover, when you have done your work here, and are to carry the Covenant into all Lands. What though it be not promised? you may prattle of it notwithstanding, now and then: All the danger is, if you do it often. Do but beware of that, and you have liberty not only to gape for great things, but to chat concerning them. Though how to make their tongues lie still will be hard to tell, when they hear from W. B. not only of a single Vision, but of Visions, Raptures, and Revelations. Away, Away with this ill­favour'd daubing, and these witless Apologies. Throw away your Plasters good Doctor, for they are too narrow for the Sore. The People have been cheated too much already, do not for [Page 189]shame indeavour to continue the Im­posture. Be contented now, to hear that you and your Friends are some­times mistaken, and have misled the simple; And do not peremptorily re­solve that you will be in the right, or at least will speak in the Apostolical style, that you may be admired; as if with St. Paul you were caught up into the third Heavens.

I am convinced that these are not safe expressions; and I wish they would forbear them.

And yet Phil. can patiently hear them talk of opening all their windows for new light, without saying a word against it. A wondrous zealous man when he list; and when it pleases him, as cold as Ice. Time was, when these things were thought to be of most per­nicious consequence: and it was one of the Reasons given against the Toleration which the Independents sought for: That they professed Reserves, and New Lights, for which they will (no doubt) expect the like Toleration, and so without any end Letter of the Lon­don Mini­sters to the Assembly. Jan. 1. 1645. P. 3.. Let them move for Toleration when once they are positively determined how far they mean to go, and where they mean to stay: till then it is not seasonable. Thus they [Page 190]discoursed heretofore: But now—

You must consider, that he may be ignorant of these things.

Or troubles not his thoughts a­bout them. What though the New Lights proved but flashes of Lightning? its all one to him, you may keep your windows still open. And this I remem­ber, was one flash of those hot-brain'd men: that the Two Witnesses Some Flashes of lightning of the Son of Man Serm. 9. p. 195, &c. an. 1648., who are to do such wonders, are Christ in Flesh, and Christ in Spirit. Christ in Flesh testifying in weakness and mean­ness; but, Christ in Spirit testifying in more power and glory. And would you know who these are? Behold ano­ther Flash: They are the Saints, into whom the holy anointing runs through the Flesh and Spirit of Christ. Christ in Flesh hath much of the nature of the Old Testament: Christ in Spirit hath more of the New. But however, it is generally to be understood of the Saints, Who are the two anointed ones, Zach. 4. and the two Olive Trees rising out of the Root of God—

I'le shut my ears, for they can­not away with such stuff.

And if Phil. would shut his eyes too, it would be better for him. The [Page 191]Eastern Proverb gives him wiser coun­sel, than W. B. not to open all the win­dows, but to shut them: for then the whole house will be full of light. If he would leave off hearing and tel­ling of stories, and retire seriously into his own soul, it would inform him that he is too forward and bold; and that he ought to know more before he be a Writer. Nay, he would find great reason, I believe, to suspect his sincerity: since he deals not his Reproofs im­partially, when he hath occasion; but can better endure to hear one man cry open your windows for new light, than hear another only make an innocent re­flection on that vanity:

I think he hath required your conceit, with his story of the Link-boy and a man in black, pag. 48.

Good! He will bring up a new name for our Ministers; the men in black. Are not these excellent Servants of Jesus Christ, holy men of God; that teach the people nick-names for us? What will please those, who can neither indure the men in white, nor the men in black? Or what will reform those, who after they have been admonisht of the foulness of this crime in others, and [Page 192]think they were too sharply rebuked for it; commit it impudently them­selves?

He confesses with shame and sorrow, that the common people have too much reproached your Ministers as they went along the Streets P. 239..

So much the more reason for a a deeper blush and greater confusion in his face, that he should still continue the reproaches. But mark, I pray, his base hypocrisie; (for I can make nothing else of it) who will not forbear, even when he is confessing a sin with shame and sorrow, to make himself merry, and so to take away all sense of it. They should not have reproached them, saith he, if they met them sober, and their present gesture was not bowing and reeling. What was this, but to abate the edg of his reproof, and to make the guilty smile, when he should have made them cry? Reproof did I call it? No. He hath none for so petty a crime as this. It is but a trifle to call a good Minister, Baal's Priest, Black Devil (as one lately called an excellent person) For this is all he hath to say to it. It was, and is, very uncomely to reproach them when they meet them sober, &c. Very uncomly! [Page 193]O! How mild and gentle the man is grown on a suddain? How cool and lost is his breath after all his blostering; as if he would not molest a feather? He is as tender as that Gentleman, who told us, ‘the main thing in which all Gods people generally from the h [...]ghest to the lowest have been too unskil­ful, is denying self, and contemning those allurements of gain, which puff up the mind of men with boasting and vain glory Short Discourse concerning the work of God, in this Na­tion, 1659. pag. 5.:’ or, as those that said, the Brownists, who had faln into a damnable Schism (as I told you the last time Out of Mr. Gif­ford. pag. 329. of the Continua­tion.) were a little over-sh [...]t in some matters. Alas for them! that they should be such shrewd men at getting mony, and so unskilful in self-denial! Verily, it is a defect. It is not well, that they have gone so farr from the Church of God. Nor is it a comely thing, that his Ministers should be reviled. No; it is very uncomely. They ought to have passed them by civilly P. 240. of his Answ.: indeed, they ought. But how if they do not? Why? they may be Saints for all that, as far as I can perceive; only not so mannerly as he wishes they were. Or if they be not, they may think themselves to be so, notwithstanding any thing this Gentle­man [Page 194]hath to say, who dares not dis­please them. And here, if you observe it, he hath given us a notable proof of his disingenuity and spightful folly, in thrusting into his Book so many idle stories, whose Authors we know not where to find, and of which he himself hath no assurance. I could tell you, saith he, of a Link-boy, &c. Could tell us? What? more than he hath told us? No. Who he was, saith he, I cannot tell Ib p. 48.. A pretty piece of hypocrisie; to make a show as if he would not tell a story, and in that very breath to tell as much of it as he knows. And a fine way of writing falsly, to blot Paper with stories taken up in the Streets, of he cannot tell whom. One of M. Bucer's Pharisees I see is revived, that easily believes tales, and having rashly believed them, loves to spread and scatter them abroad Continu­ation, pag. 260.. And he is so much the worse, because when he distrusts them, yet he will not stick to report them. I shall not meddle with the private stories, notoriously false, which he hath helpt to blow about (though if he go on at the rate he hath begun, he may be brought in danger of the Statute against the Spreaders of false News) you may find another ab­surd [Page 195]passage in his Book, p. 266. which he dares not affirm upon [...]s word. For it was used, he saith, if I mistake not, by one of your Preachers: and it was this, or to this effect, &c. I have discovered so many of his mistakes, that I can see no reason to believe it. It might be a a Preacher of your own who spoke those words, or he might not speak to that purpose, but some other. But they say (p. 292) they are reported. (p. 240.) If fame may be trusted (p. 244.) and such like Authorities are brought as the strongest warrant he hath for his tale; wherewith he abuses the people; and slanders his neighbours. You may won­der indeed (as I find a great stickler W. Wal­wyn Foun­tain of Slander discovered. 1649. p. 8. in the late times notably discoursing) ‘That Religious people are so ready to catch and carry aspersions from man to man, and not have so much honesty and charity as first to be fully satis­fied of the truth of that which they report; and that the taking away of mens good name should be thought no sin among them.’ But truly (saith he) I do not wonder at it, for where notional or verbal Religion, which at best is but Superstiti [...]n, is Author of that little sha­dow of goodness which possesses men, it is [Page 196]no marvel they have so little hold of themselves; for they want that innate, imbred virtue which makes men good men; that pure and undefiled Religion, which truly denominates them good Christians, and which only gives strength against temp­tations of this nature. This is the great defect of your Philagathus, who hath so little even of that innate honesty which is in many men short of Christianity, that he doth far worse things than those which displease him in others. He finds fault with me for looking so far back as 1642, and that when there was a good cause for it, and when I quoted good and undoubted Authorities: but he most basely drags in a vagrant story P. 140.; which his Ignorant Readers may think to be piping hot (as he speaks in another place) out of the Pulpit, when, in truth, it is so old that he knows not the Ori­ginal of it. For the Crocodile of Time, and the Dog of the Discourse, were laught at long before he saw the University. With such stories, I doubt not, he is able to furnish us without any number, though we had not his word for it. Eve­ry boy can do as much. And rather than fail, he, for his part, is so unworthy, that he will stoop to believe Libels, [Page 197]and thence increase the long list of his tales, which he hath mustered up.

You wrong him surely. He cannot be so base.

It is as I tell you. Witness what he writes, p. 121. It hath been said, you have been teaching two year, the reason why we are Christians: as if all the Con­gregation had been Infidels. This was said, the truth is, of a Minister in the Town (whom he, good man, all along takes for me) in a Li [...]el lately laid under the Church Bible; as I have heard from those to whom this very Gentleman hath reported it. And if you saw it all, it would be singular testimony how much some, at least, of your people improve in those great Virtues of arrogance, self­conceit, wrath, bitterness and reviling: And how welcome such a Reprover as this will be to them, who shall only whine and say, Verily, It is very un­comely, you may easily imagine. For I am inform'd withal, that there are other lyes there, and several expressions as modest and humble as those (and of the same nature) which one used in his Prayer in the beginning of the late Wars before the Minister of the Pa­rish; Good Lord, Good Lord, deliver [Page 198]this Congregation from this man, who is un­learned, unpowerful, unprofitable: or as these; O Lord, thou knowest good Lord, that we never had the truth preached among us until now —

Now you are going to tell us the faults of our Prayers. But Sir; if you would not be thought to be a perfect Atheist: If you would not contract a hun­dred fold so much odium, as did he that wrote the Gangrene: If you would not have your name rot and stink among all good men throughout all generations; if you would not —

Pray spare your Conjurations (a lurry of which I remember in his Book Pag. 100, 101.) for they are of no efficacy at all. I am far from thinking you the only good men that must embalm our names, or else they rot and stink. That's a proud imagination of your own, which will never enter in my thoughts. ‘Are you the great Chamberlains of the House of God? (as the Bishop of Gal­loway Defence of his Apo­logy. p. 44. speaks) Are all the vessels of Honour in it committed to your cu­stody? Are you Keepers of the Book of Life, wherein the names of the Heirs of Grace are all registred? Have you the Balance of the Sanctuary, or is [Page 199]the Fan put into your hands to sepa­rate chaff and corn? speak no more so presumptuously: and let not such arrogance come out of your mouth: lest it prove true upon you which St. Austin hath to Parmenian;’ Because you have lost patience, and make hast be­fore the time to separate Chaff and Corn, accounting at your pleasure some men abo­minable, and some approved, you have de­clared your selves to be but chaff, and most light chaff, carried out of the com­pass of Charity by the wind of your own Pride. But be what you please, know that I despise your proud vaunts: and am not afraid of your big and scornful looks, I matter not your hatred, nor regard your rash and supercilious cen­sures. As for the odious names where­with you brand us, they are but a tri­fle in my account. I have other rea­sons to keep me from such imployment, about which I never had so much as one thought.

Not a thought? He saith, there is Book coming out, supposed to be yours, consisting of a Collection of Non-sense and Blasphemy, said to have faln from some mens Prayers.

I know nothing of it, no more [Page 200]than himself. But whatsoever he hears, supposes, or imagines, must down pre­sen [...]y in Print. And that's the way to m [...]ke great Books in an instant, and like­w [...]se to raise great wrath in the peoples hearts against me, out of mere sur­mises.

You have shewn your inclina­tion this way, by what you have told me just now.

You shew your ignorance. Those are passages in Print already, which you may find in a Book Haeresio­gr [...]p [...]y p. 66. of Mr. Ephra­ius Paget's; who tells you, the first of them was uttered in his own Pulpit, and in his presence, concerning himself. And I could send you to other Books, where from goo [...] Authority you may find ma­ny more. But I hate the way of this Scri­bler, who relates stories that have no body to be their vouchers: for it is a course neither Wise nor Honest. Who is there that cannot invent a thousand out of his own head, if he be so mind­ed? And how shall the people know, that the truest are not mere devices, when they know not so much as the per­son who reports them. If I had been guilty of such a fault (who have referr'd you to Authors in Print for all the mat­ters [Page 201]of fact that I have related) he would have told me of it on both ears; and cryed out, as he doth upon the oc­casion of something which he saith, I did but insinuate: Shew me such a thing in Print, or quote me such a passage out of their Sermons Pag. 81.. But he hath one rule for himself, and another for other folk. We must write out of Books in Print; but he from News Mer­chants, or his own Imagination, never considering that we are not so dull or unacquainted with the world, but, if we list, we can give him, as they say, a Rowland for his Oliver; Nay, repay him with such stories, I assure him, and those so well attested, as shall make every vein in his heart to ake. Let him put it to the trial, if he please to go on at this rate: For the present I'le let him alone, and only follow him to hear what he hath further to say out of his Apocrypha; for certain and authorised Histories he hath none. It is thought, saith he, to me Pag. 82.; that you your self in those days (for some reason that is suggested) had not so great a zeal against all that which some men call Sacriledg, as now you pretend to have; and were so far from reproving others for it, that— [Page 202]What's the matter now that he makes a stop? Is he choakt with his tale, and doth it give him the lye in his throat? Or, Is this a wicked Art he hath, of telling half a spightful story, and re­serving the rest, that the people may make it up with what they please?

He speaks not confidently, but only tells you it is thought from some­thing that is suggested, &c.

So it was thought, and more than suggested, that a right Reverend Person kept a great deal of the Poors mony in his hand, when he never so much as finger'd it. If the Father of Lyes sug­gest things, will you presently divulg them and send them abroad? Nay, must your evil surmisings be made so publick as to be put in Print?

That I confess was ill done.

It had not been so bad, if he had told you all that was thought, and the reasons upon which it was suggested; but now he leaves every body to think all the evil of me that their ill nature can invent. As they will suppose from his words, (who never guesses aright) that I was a Reprover of others in those days, (when the truth is, I was then but a boy, newly come from School) so they [Page 203]will be apt to imagine I was, at least, an applauder of that which I now con­demn. But the most quick-sighted of that lying faction (I hope I may have leave to use those words of a very great per­son His Highness Prince Rupert in his Decla­ration. 1642. p. 3.) will never be able to find the time, the place, the man or woman, when, where, and before whom I signi­fied the least approbation of so great a crime, as I always accounted it. Let Philag. himself, when he hath more knowledg of me, be sent to all the places where I have lived to trace my steps, and when he returns, let him put the worst he can hear of me in Print, I shall not blush to read it.

You are very confident.

Not that I shall escape all slan­ders; for I have already met with good store: and have been admonisht also to expect them, if ever I went about to promote any publick good, or to re­move any old, or newly settled evil. This every body can teach us, it is so common. Let such a man (saith one of the late times Fountain of Slan­der disco­vered.) resolve that accor­ding to the good he would do, so shall his aspersions be. Nor let him think, when time and his constant actions have worn out one, or two, or ten aspersions, [Page 204]that he shall be therefore free: but if he continue to mind their good, he shall be sure to find new ones, such as he ne­ver dreamt of, nor could imagine. Such an one is this now cast upon me by Philag. who snarls at my heels very of­ten, and would fain fasten if he could; but now barks perfectly in the dark, (as a worthy person somewhere speaks) without the help of Moon-shine to di­rect him in his snarling. He may as well accuse me of Witchcraft, as of any thing of that nature; or say that I worship the Man in the Moon, for it is as true, as that I so much as fa­vour'd any thing that any men call Sa­criledg.

He cryes you mercy, if he be mis­inform'd, Ib. p. 82.

Let him ask mercy of God, and repent of such gross hypocrisie as makes him wantonly play with a mans good Name; and when he hath abused it, think he hath made amends with a word, saying, I cry you mercy Sir.

Have you not spoken concern­ing others?

Not without good ground, and great cause: to vindicate our selves from their proud contempt; and the [Page 205]odious name of Time-servers, and to take from them that unjust reputation which they affect, of being more know­ing and more godly than all or [...]ers.

You might have put amore can­did construction upon their silence Ib. p. 82. about Sacriledg.

He can tell me nothing to alter my opinion, but only that it is possible their silence might spring from no other cause, but this, that they had not the same notions and apprehensions concerning Sa­criledg, as some have; or that they did think, that Church-lands would not have been so disposed of as they were, &c. A very doughty Champion! To have such an extraordinary motion to undertake your defence, and to be able to perform so little when he comes to the business; is a very great shame.

Why? Is this nothing?

What doth it amount to? It is pos­sible there were other causes; and it is possible, I have hit on the right; and more than that, it is possible he may think so when I have told him the unlikeli­hood of his. Did they not know how many people had of a long time gaped for the remnant of the Church-Reve­nues? Were they not inform'd by one [Page 206]of their own Authors in Queen Eliza­beth's time, that too many of their Scho­lars coveted and craved them with great hunger? ‘While they hear us speak (saith the Author of the Eccle­siastical Discipline) against Bishops and Cathedral Churches, it tickles their ears, looking for the like prey they had before of the Monasteries. Yea, they have in their hearts already devoured the Churches Inheritance. They care not for Religion, so they may get the spoil. They could be content to crucifie Christ, so they might have his Garments. Our Age is full of spoiling Souldiers, and most wicked Dionysius's, who will rob Christ of his golden Coat, as neither fit for him in Winter nor Summer. They are cormorants, and seek to fill the bottomless Sack of their greedy Appetite. They do yawn after a prey, and would thereby to their perpetual shame purchase to them­selves a Field of Blood It is quo­ted in Bi­shop (then only Do­ctor) Ban­crofs Ser­mon at Pauls-Cross. 1588. p. 9. who ad­monished them else­where, that by their out-cries they might farther im­poverish the Church, but they should be sure to be little better for it..’ Thus T.C. more sharply inveighed against the wickedness of some who then followed them, than I have done against any now. He made bold to say, the Age was sull of such irreligious men, as I think a­bound [Page 207]now; and yet I must be thought wicked, ungodly and malicious; for such a supposal, and he, no doubt, a zealous reprover of sin. But let that pass. This so early and open declara­tion of the evil Spirit that then ruled in the Enemies of Bishops, should have taught and admonished all your Mini­sters, one would think, in such a tumul­tuous and audacious Age as ours, to take all occasions to warn men against such wickedness. For that the chief of them esteemed it so, I make no doubt; whatsoever this Ignorant Apo­logist surmises. Mr. Rich. Vines I re­member, very honestly, gave the Par­liament a touch of it, by citing (in a Sermon not Printed) a place concerning Sacriledg out of Mr. Hildersham on the 51. Psalm. But he tells Mr. Baxter, in a Letter to him Which he Printed up­on another occasion in his third Disput. about Ch. Govern­ment and Wor­ship. p. 350., that it did not please; and adds withal; that most are of opinion, that while the Church lies so unprovided for, the donations are not alienable without Sacriledg. And therefore it is most probable the An­notators were of that mind; and so should have indeavoured at least to pre­vent the farther growth of this pro­faneness by some cautions against it; if [Page 208]not told that High Court, with the free­dom and plainness, (which they seem to affect) what the Lord Bacon hath said; viz. That the Parliament of England owe [...] some satisfaction for the many injuries and unjust oppressions formerly done by them to the Church; and therefore should be far from going about to increase that debt. There was a pious man, one Mr. Ʋdal Minister at St. Au­stins­gate., that ventured an undoing in this cause: being sequestred, and more than that, put into the First Cen­tury of Scandalous Ministers, for wri­ting a Book called Noli me tangere: In which, saith Mr. White Cent. 1. Example 22., he charges the Parliament with Sacriledg. This was all they had to say against him; to­gether with these words, That he af­firm'd the great Reformers of the Church now were Hypocrites (for as for the last clause, that he otherways ex­pressed great malignity against the Par­liament, it was but a form, you know, then in use, when they had nothing against a man that deserved such cruel usage) whether he said the latter words or no, I know not, but I am sure he is falsely charged with the former: for he did not say the Parliament was guilty of Sacriledg, as appears by the Book it [Page 209]self, which I have read Printed, 1642. He only shews the danger of this sin, and what judgments have faln upon those who were guilty of it, even upon Sacrilegi­ous Princes. And his instances are such as might have given his Majesty more just reason of anger than the Parliament: of whom he only says this. That no man should think the nature of the sin altered, if the alienation of Church-Lands be done by a National-Assembly of the Estates in Parliament: and de­sires them rather to think it a worthy work and befitting a Parliamentary Re­formation, to restore the Tithes to the proper owners, than taking away the residue of their Lands. Gravely Pray­ing withal to God, that he would grant them wisdom to see the injustice and im­piety of the peoples desires this way, who for the most part are led by wicked passions and distempers, rather than by Reason and Religion. But it seems it was so dange­rous a thing then, only to name the word Sacriledg with abhorrence, that the poor man lost his Living, and his good Name too, (and suffered other­ways most lamentably) for desiring them to have no hand in it; and pray­ing God the ungodly desires of the [Page 210]people might not hurry them to that, to which perhaps they had no inclination of themselves. This was enough to terrifie all that had not great integrity and courage from meddling in this mat­ter—

In which I wish Philag. had not meddled, but let it pass; for it doth but make you bring out old stories, which I love not to hear of.

Then you think, belike, that it was very discreetly done of him, to pass over so great a part of my Book as he hath left untoucht, and only snapt at it here and there; though, I must confess, I look upon this as a part of his disin­genuity and partiality. For why did he not plainly confess the truth of what I said in many places, and pray you to reform? Why did he not bewail the fol­ly wherewith this poor Nation is over­run by your new invented phrases Pag. 34, 35. of Friendly Debate.? The kicking of your people against reproof Pag. 17, 18. the rest you'l easily siad.; their reviling of Common Prayer; their bold pretence to famili­arity with God, when they only let their tongue loose without any restraint; their unreasonable antipathies to a Form of Prayer; their headiness, and ungo­vern'd passion; their conceit of them­selves [Page 211]and their own gifts; their rash censures and gross superstition; their contempt of Governours, and malepert­ness toward their Superiours, the licen­tiousness of their tongues, and rejoyce­ing in iniquity, their appropriating to themselves the name of Godly, their murmuring, impatience, wicked and scandalous reports of Bishops without any foundation; with a great heap of other things, which this brisk Gentle­man very nimbly and confidently skips over? It seems, your people have no list, or leisure, to think of these matters. There are higher and more glorious Discoveries to take up their thoughts; and they leave this dull, low Morality to us. The slaying of the Witnesses, the downfal of Babylon, the calling of the Jews, &c. are fit subjects for their me­ditation, not these poor things which concern their Duty. Thus Mt. Green­ham observed long ago Fifth part of his works, Chap 74. p. 797.; It is often the policy of the Devil, to make men tra­vail in some good things to come, when more fitly they might be occupied in good things present. And experience, saith he, teacheth, that many meddle with the mat­ters of the Church; who are s [...]nseless and barren in the Doctrine of the Now [...]irth.

In one thing indeed I must commend his ingenuity, in that he fairly acknow­ledges, they break his Majesties Law to get a living Read p. 5.. This is an honest confession; and thus far he did well, in not excusing the business with a com­pany of Religious Phrases. If he had also told us that a great reason of his writing against me, was to get a little mony; I believe he had come neare [...] the truth, than when he tells us of his zeal for God. But he could not hold long in a good mood: For he is so kind and good natur'd to his own party, that he thinks, not only fear of wanting a maintenance, but want of good company fit for a Scholar is sufficient to warrant their breach of the Law Pag. 7.; and at last he talks also of opportunities of doing good, as if there were no opportunities, but only in prohibited places: Nay, he asserts this most pernicious principle, that they are not bound to obey the Laws unless they be forced P. 6 Of the Book and Pref. p. 14.; that is not for Conscience, no nor for fear of wrath, but when Justice lays hold of them, and is too strong for them.

Why? Do you read that Christ left Nazareth till they rose up and thrust him out of the City, Luke 4.29, &c. Ib p 6.

Nor do we find there was any Law against Christ's being at Nazareth. Why do you not blush at this vile and beggerly way of arguing? Do the Novices he talks of, that come frisking into the Pulpit with the shells on their heads P. 284., ever discourse thus weakly? Is it easie to find a Boy of any parts, that would reason after this childish fashion? If he reason no better in his Sermons, than he doth in his Writings; God help the people that are instructed by him. They are like to be abused even by the holy Scripture; and to have many an untruth confidently imposed on them, with the Word of God to avouch it: And there­fore had better, a great deal, be taught by one of those striplings, if humble and modest; than by this bold frisking Senior.

I am convinced of the imper­tinency of this Quotation.

And what doth the rest of his Dis­course in that place amount unto but this? that when men have no temptati­on to break a Law, he hath nothing to plead in their behalf: but when they have, (though it be but small; as the want of good company, or the like) he desires they may be excused. An ex­cellent [Page 214]Casuist! By this device all the world may be saved; for, What man is there that sins without a temptation? And, if men may break Laws for fear of want, I pray, what shall become of living by faith on Gods Providence, which he would have us think you com­mend as much as we, when there is no visible means of subsistence? What did our Saviour mean by taking up our Cross: a Doctrine I put you in mind of at the very first, but which he cunningly slips over? Might not the old N. C. have used the same plea that he doth, and have preached till their mouths, as we say, were sowed up? Or, Were they ignorant of their Christian Liberty? And, Have you received a New Light, whereby you see a man is free from Laws when he is in straits; and need not observe them, to his own inconvenience, unless he be compelled by force and violence? Well, I see what value such men as these set upon the Peace of the Church of God, who care not how it is distracted, so they may be but sure to be maintain'd. They have lost the Spirit of the old Christians, who chose to in­dure any thing rather than a breach should be made in the Body of Christ. [Page 215]The words of Dionysius Bishop of Alex­andria in his Letter to Novatian, (cal­led there Novatus) are very remark­able: as I find them alledged by the Professors and Doctors of Aberdene Duplies 1638. pag. 11. out of Euseb. l. 6. Hist. Ec­cles. c. 45., to the Ministers that came to urge the Covenant upon their people. You ought rather to have suffered any thing, what­soever, for avoiding of cutting asunder the Church of God. And Martyrdom for keeping the Church from Schism is no less glorious, than that which is suffered for not committing Idolatry. And in my opinion, also, it is greater: for, in suffer­ing Martyrdom for not committing Idola­try, a man suffereth for one, even for his own Soul; but here a man suffers Martyr­dom for the whole Church. Mr. Calamy also, I remember, prefixes this sentence out of St. Cyprian, to a Sermon of his before the Lords Decemb. 25. 1644.; We prefer the Peace of the Church before Martyrdom. It is worse to make a Schism in the Church than to sacrifice to an Idol. And in his Dedicatory Epistle to them, he cites this passage out of Ruffinus L. 2. c. 9., that Nazi­anzen seeing there was like to be a great disturbance, unless he yielded up his place to another, broke out into this speech; God forbid that for my cause [Page 216]any differences should arise among the Mi­nisters of God: If this tempest be raised for my cause, take me and throw me into the Sea, that so it may cease. But there is an easier way to Martyrdom discover­ed now by the great Philagathus, who teaches men to do as they list, that is, to break the Laws, and keep separated Meetings where they think good, and yet they shall be Martyrs, and he is able to write their Martyrology.

Those must pass for careless words.

I think he doth not mind very much what he writes; for if he did, he would not have left such an odious Cha­racter of you, as he hath done.

Of whom?

Of such as you, who have no more love and gratitude to those who have served you, than to suffer them to be in such straits as tempts them to sin a­gainst God. What strange creatures doth he make you by this discourse? Are your people grown so bad (after you have extolled them so much) that they will not relieve a poor helpless Minister, unless he will break the Laws for their humour? Will they do no­thing for them in remembrance of [Page 217]their old services? Are they so hard hearted that they have no pity on the poor, no not those of the Sacred Professi­on? and the honester and more consci­entious they are, shall they find the less favour? O wicked Generation! Those you account ungodly, I am con­fident would be more charitable. A number of our people would have piti­ed and relieved them, I am sure, if they had taken the same course that their Fore-fathers did. I profess my self one of those that would have cheerfully succoured such good men, who meekly suffered for Conscience sake. This would have made a friendly agreement between us; and rendred them men wor­thy to be beloved. And when our Go­vernours had seen them do all the Laws require as farr as they could, and not crossing them when they could not obey them; it might perhaps have inclined them to hearken to motions of accom­modation; which is not to be hoped for, I am sure not to be desired, by bold vi [...] ­lation of the Laws, and high contempt of our Governours.

But I must not let him pass on this fashion. He hath made such a long de­clamation about their straits, that I [Page 218]must ask you, Did you know what it was heretofore to have a Wife and a great ma­ny young Children, and nothing wherewithal to maintain them? (they are his own words Pag. 5., which I use, to let him see his boldness in mentioning such things) Th [...] Sir, let me tell you, was the case of several Ministers who were worse used than any man is now. For they were not barely turned out of their places, and as his great Friend Dr. Bate Elench. M [...]tuum. 1. part. p. 59. assures us, spoil'd of their Houses, Goods and Revenues, under the name of Sequestration, but shut up divers years in close Prisons and Dungeons, in Ships also, even in the heats of Summer; and there without hearing of their cause, or any accusation preferred against them, macerated with nastiness, fastings, and watchings. Who was there then allowed to contrive Oaths in their own words, which this man desires? And were they not debarr'd the benefit of teaching the Children of their Friends? (a very con­temptible office in this Gentleman's ac­count P. 21. It would make your heart bleed to see them serve as poor Pae­dagogues.) and banisht also out of whole Counties (and not meerly sent five mile from a place) as I told you hereto­fore Friendly Debate. p. 219., but he would not be pleased to observe it?

Good Sir, tell us not these sad [Page 219]stories over again; we are sensible of what you say, and sorry for it.

If you be, I will forbear to give you such a list of suffering Ministers as you do not think of. But why doth this man so audaciously affirm, that their sufferings were not so great, as really they were; and make the world be­lieve that now your Ministers suffer such things, that it is to be lamented with tears of blood?

You bid the N. C. shew what hath befaln them that should deserve the name of hard usage, pag. 27. of your Book So he writes, p. 231..

It should be p. 217. And here now begins his lying and jugling (of which you shall hear more afterward, if you will be so patient.) For I said, that deserves the name of Persecution, and such Persecution as is grievous, nay, intolerable. Consider, I beseech you, what you are to think of such a man as this. Will you take him to be either so conscientious, or so wise, as he would perswade the world be is, who boldly changes the words of a Book, which he tells you is known in Court, City, Country, and Ʋniversities P. 292.? O [...]e would think he is past feeling [...] these matters, [Page 220]and cares not what he doth, if he can but promote the Cause, and make the Ignorant believe my Book is An­swered.

He was willing, he tells you, to decline the word Persecution.

Was he so? He should have de­clined also the falsifying of Books, and the altering other mens words (especi­ally in such a case as that which we de­bated) which he should first of all have sincerely represented, and then said what he pleased. But in stead of this, he im­pudently chops and changes my words more than once, all after as he thinks good. You say, (these are his words, p. 246.) the N.C. do but fansie themselves to be great sufferers: which he had said before also, p. 231. And if you look fur­ther, he will tell you, that I manifestly affirm they have no cause to complain of any hard things which they suffer at this day, p. 250. And in one or two places my words are dwindled into these, You can tell them, they do but fan­sie themselves to be under sufferings, pag. 248 And in the Preface. pag 31.. And yet my words were, Since you fansie you are persecuted, when you are not, &c: p. 190. & 237. So he is con­tented to report them in one place P. 237., [Page 221]and no more, that I can observe: For though he declines the word as much as he can, he plainly signifies that he be­lieves the thing, telling us upon this oc­casion of their being Martyrs, and of a Martyrology he could write, as I before noted. But to pass by this fraudulent way of writing, which he is often guilty of; let you and I debate this business to­gether if you please.

With all my heart; for it akes, when I think of what he saith of their sufferings.

But you must give me leave to note, before we enter upon it, that the na­ture of man is very apt to complain, and none more than your selves. Who, I have always observed, are a very deli­cate and nice sort of people, that make a lamentable noise if all things go not after your mind; nay, put the finger in eye, and cry Persecution, upon very small causes. And therefore we must not be too forward to believe all that this man tells us.

You make them like little Chil­dren, that cry before they be hurt.

They partake very much of the quality of little ones in that particular: who are so tender, that they cannot in­dure [Page 222]so much as the scratch of a pin. They must have all their desires grant­ed, and not be restrained in the least of their Liberty; otherwise, all the Na­tion shall ring with the doleful noise of Persecution, Antichristian Persecution. Immediately your people fansie they prophesie in Sackcloth, and are in a Sack­cloth condition, and carried into the Wil­derness; even those who live in as good houses, and wear as good Chamlets, fine Cloth, and Silks, as any body else. For which I can find no cause, but the high esteem they have of themselves, which makes them look upon all the fa­vours which are done them as small; and any the least cross as exceeding great. What? the precious Sons and Daughters of Sion to be thus used! Is it not a sad thing, that they should be persecuted to the very gates of Sion, yea into the very gates of their Trade?—

I shall not indure this lan­guage.

It is your own W. B. Seas. Truths. p. 113. and others.. But if you will not hear it, I will let it alone.

And all your Stories which you are going to tell.

There was a Book Army Harmless. pag. 2. indeed, ‘which told us of many persons who [Page 223]suffered in extremity, and others like to do more, for their Non-comport­ment with the Presbyterian way; though they judged the same to be manifestly sinful and altogether re­pugnant to the Word:’ Do you believe this complainer?

No, no. They called any little thing, suffering in extremity—

And why should we not think, that Philag. is of the same humour now; since others—

I pray come to the business, and tell me no more of these stories.

I'le omit the most displeasing to you, and only tell you, as a proof of this complaining humour, that there was a Party in the late Usurpers days, who talk [...] as lowdly as Phil. can do, of the Persecution of the Saints, the crucified Cause of Jesus; and said, that the Rulers, Priests, and Souldiers had gotten Christ upon the Cross once more, through the High Treason of the Judas's of the Times. And what was the matter think you? Nothing but this; a few persons were secured; and some were cut short, as they tell you, in their Liberties Image of our Re­forming Times. Praef. & p. 45. an. 1654.. Nay, so grievous it was to some to be crossed and contradicted and brought a [Page 224]little lower in the world than they were; that they would not only tum­ble the whole Nation upside down, but go cross even to their own publick pro­fessions, rather than not have their wills. For this, I remember, was the plea of those who turn'd their Masters out of doors (after they had called themselves a few days before, and seemed to take a pleasure in styling themselves, the Faith­ful Servants, the Faithful Army of this Parliament) that if it were not done, it would be the undoing of some Families. And how many think you were they, for whom all that noise and bustle, and confusion was made? Some Officen of the Army tell you that, in these words Humble Represen­tation to the Lieft. Gen. Nov. 1. 1659. pag. 7., We are not ignorant of the grea argument why this Parliament was inter­rupted. What? Must nine Families be undone at once? No, by no means. Have a care of such precious Creatures, and deal tenderly with them; Those mine may be more worth than all the Nation beside, at least have a better opinion of themselves, and therefore, What is there to be considered so much as their con­cerns?

I have heard enough of this, en­less it were better. Now to the purpose.

This is much to the purpose. For you see what a stir some men are apt to make, if they be in danger to be less than they were before; and how much they prefer the satisfaction of a few be­fore the publique tranquillity. Such men you may be sure will murmur and repine when they are brought down in­deed; as thinking they receive a great injury when they are not in place of power and dignity, and are used hardly, when they do not rule and govern us.

But this is nothing to those who have lost all.

But it shews that we must not pre­sently believe mens condition so bad, as their complaints represent it. For those nine would not have been undone, if they had lost the places they then held. And I must tell you, it hath been an old trick, as to multiply the numbers of those who are disaffected to the Religi­on and Government established, so to magnifie their sufferings. They have al­ways made a grievous moan, and cryed out of hard and cruel dealing, if but a little punished, that might move the pity of the people towards themselves, and their hatred towards their Govern­ours. Thus Campian, I remember, ex­claimed [Page 226]and complained of the Queens rigor in putting him twice upon the rack, which, he said, was worse tha [...] hanging, (just as Philag. saith, burning of them is a shorter suffering than star­ving, p. 80.) when as he had rather seen than felt that punishment, as the Lieftenant of the Tower told him; Be­ing able, after he came from it, to go to his lodging without help, and use his hand in writing, and all other parts of his body; which he could not have done, had he been put to that punish­ment with any such extremity as he spoke of. But what will not bold men say, especially such men as he? whose in­pudence (as Mr. Alex. Nowel, and others told him) was very great, in charging her Majesties Government with cruelty, when the Authors and Professors of his Religion had so horribly tormented ma­ny for the maintenance of ours True Re­port of the Disput. had in the Tower with Edm. Campian. Ang. the last, 1581. Printed 1583.. The ve­ry same, you cannot but see, may be said to your Complainer, who treads in the same steps, and magnifies as the worth, so the sufferings of some men, as if the like was never heard of. Burning is as merciful, or rather more, than that condition of which they are in dan­ger—.

Come; do not repeat his words, but confute them if you can.

First, then let us note where your Philag. makes your Ministers sufferings, and hard usage, to begin; and that is at the Kings Restauration.

No sure.

It is clear from the place, where he computes the number of Sufferers, after his fashion P. 233.; and supposes that the cold dew of an Ejection fell upon two thousand N. C. Ministers, at and before Bartholomew-tide, 1662. Which he ex­plain [...] in his Preface (though it needed not) where he tells us they have been out; and so thousands of souls starved for want of the sincere milk of the Word, almost ten years Pag. 25.. This is very dutifully done, [...]o make their Miseries commence with his Majesties Happiness. And a mar­vellous honesty there is in this Doctors Principles, who reckons their removel from other mens Free-holds for a part of their hard usage; and tells us they were cast out of that, which they ought to have freely restored. What is this but to justifie all Sequestrations? —

Not a word of that, I beseech you.

He plainly discovers those Prin­ciples [Page 228]are in him, which his Majesty told us should be rooted up. But I am con­tent now to examine the truth of his complaints concerning their great po­verty, (though it will not prove, as you shall see, that they are hardly used) and I would have you desire him to tell you, how they agree with the Boasts which one of them makes, in a Book cal­led A Plea for Ministers in Sequestra­tions An 1660 p 13.; where we are told; ‘It is well known (that's to be observed) many of us (that's to be observed) many of us need not, nor did need their Estates for a subsistance. The greater number of us, (mark that For it auswers his Quest. p. 7. where are those rich ejected Ministers to be sound?—) through the mercy of God, could boast of as great Birth, Estates, Friends, and offers of Preferment, as they. We having many of us our selves Livings and Preferments to bestow, and some bestowed upon deserving men.’ Of this he was very confident and well assured, else he would not have uttered these scornful words; I pray God that we may never feel Prelati­cal c [...]mpassion to us and our families.

That was not very modestly said.

The rest of his words require Phi­lagathus to shut his mouth a little, and not to gape so wide in his complaints; [Page 229]for a considerable number of the poor starved families he speaks of, are cut off from the List by this Swaggerer. As for those that remain, I have great cause to believe that he over-lashes very much, when he saith, there are many hundreds of families that have hardly meas to fill their bellies, or clothes to cover their naked­ness, and in short, are in such a conditi­on, that it is to be lamented with tears of blood. Some, I believe, there are in a very mean condition, and so there are among the Conforming Clergy. But that there should be so many, and so miserable as he speaks, we must have better Autho­rity to make us believe it, than his Word. Nay, it is not easie to believe (when we consider what he says else­where) that there are any at all. I rather look upon these grievous and doleful complaints, as an easie Art to draw the peoples compassion to them (as was said before) and to raise their displeasure a­gainst their Rulers, who have reduced them to these straits. And that you may not think this is a new thing, I pray call to mind the clamours of some in the late Times, when they could not have their will, and how disproportionable the Cause was to the Cry. Hear, how [Page 230]the followers of John Lilburn mouth'd it. In the mournful cry (as they called it) of many thousand poor Tradesmen, rea­dy to perish Or the Warning Tears of the oppres­sed. 1647.. O that the crowings of our stomachs could be heard by the Parlia­ment and City. O that the tears of our poor famishing babes were botled. O that their tender Mothers cries for bread to feed them, were engraven in brass. O that [...] pined carkasses were open to every eye. O, our hearts faint, and we are ready to [...] in the top of every street. O you Members of Parliament, O you rich men in the Ci­ty, O you Souldiers, shew bowels of mercy! O hear how our Children cry Bread, Bread, Bread, and we now once more with bleeding hearts cry pity, pity, an oppressed enslaved people! &c. One would think that these were the last groans of a dying multi­tude, and that in the next Bills of Mor­tality we should have heard of thou­sands starved, or fain down dead in the Streets, since they found no relief. But they were alive and alive like. They meant not to take their leave of the world yet, but stay to bellow on this manner. For which there was no cause at all, but only this; that they could not have such Liberties for the people as they desired. This was the ground [Page 231]of their mournful cry, which seemed to be written (as they were told Declara­tion of John Lilb. and some of his Associ­ates. 1648. pag. 56.) by some of the Professors of Rhetorick in Newgate or L [...]dgate, whose practice of that kind of Oratory had made him as great a stran­ger to Truth, as to Blushing. Such is the Rhetorick of Philagathus, who tells us of starving and famishing, rags and tatters, killing all the day long, and crucifying, tears of blood, and heart bleeding: and repeats these as often Preface, p. 25. Book, p. 21, 46, 80, 149, 22 [...], 229, 231, 233, 237, 247, 283, &c. as they did their O, O, O; boldly affirming, or ra­ther presuming, in General terms, with­out any particular proofs. For, where are those starvlings, and crucified persons? Where are the Martyr'd or tatter'd creatures, which will wring from us tears of blood? Why are they not brought forth to the view of some pitiful eye, as was then said? Spend no longer your breath, but let all this be seen; for the view gives deeper impression than mere hearsays. And when they are produced into open sight, we shall go near to set as many honest and worthy Conformists before you, who by reason of their great charge, or small maintenance are in as mean a condition, and live as hardly as they. The truth is, this language of Phi­lagathus (as that Declaration said) looks [Page 232]more like the ebullition of Wine, than the cry of want: and therefore some­time we find him in another Tune, telling us, that the people generally retain the same good thoughts of them that they did heretofore P. 149.. If so, Why should they want now more than in time past; since good thoughts will keep up good affe­ctions, and those will open the heart, and that the purse?—

Ask me no Questions: for I can say nothing positively in this matter.

Nor he neither: For all is built upon Suppositions, as I told you. And you may further observe, that his so many hundreds of families, of pious and learned Ministers that have hardly me [...], &c, p. 234. by that time he is got to p. 247. are dwindled into the, almost starved families of scores of N. C. Mini­sters, pious and able, &c. When he hath better considered of it, he may come down to Dossens, which is a less fall by much than from Many Hundreds to Scores; he could not tell how many, or how few. Nay, his Dossens at last may shrink into some few families, who (to use his own word) it is possible may be as tattered and ragged as his Writings. The truth is, his Penruns on [Page 233]so carelessly, that he drops any thing into his Paper that comes in his way; be it true, or be it false; be it certain, or only doubtful. For when I desired, that your Ministers would not suffer their people to fansie themselves under persecution P. 237. of Fr. Deb.: He presently answers with much pertness, would it were in our power to make them know them­selves to suffer nothing, but if men be turned out of all, &c. P. 283. of his Answ., it is a hard matter to make them insensible. He had such a quick sense of himself (as he tells you presently) that he could not think of any thing else. But, be­cause he had lost his Living, imagined the people, who come not to Church, are turned out of all, which was never be­fore now heard of.

It is a mistake.

And so is his whole Discourse a­bout Persecution; which I said could not be pretended for a cause of their Separation, nor hath he said a word to shew it is so grievous and intolerable as to be alledged for that purpose. He talks of their suffering hard things P. 249.; but, what is that to the business? espe­cially if you consider, that the worst things that are inflicted on them, are the effect of their Separation and con­tempt [Page 234]of Laws, not the cause upon which they separated, as he would have the world believe. For till they left our Churches, and set up Congregations of their own, they were only deprived of their places, not imprisoned, or other­wise punished. Now, I pray, consider seriously; Did ever any man whom you account sober, call it Persecution, (which was the thing I spoke of) to suffer Deprivation, for not conforming to Publick Order? No; it is unjustly called hard usage, and to complain of this, as this Whifler doth (though the condition of some men become very sad thereby) is to complain of all Churches, even of your own, when you had any power. It hath always been thought necessary in all places, that there should be some Order kept in the Church of Christ: For which purpose they have found it as necessary that there should be some Rules and Laws; which signifie no­thing without Penalties to inforce them; and they as little, if they be not inflict­ed when men transgress. So that in con­clusion, it is as necessary to punish those that will not submit to the Laws, as it is to have Publick Order. The French Churches Eccles. Discipline of the Re­formed Churches in France translated into Eng­lish. 1642. Chap. 5. Art. 31. are so sensible of this, that they have provided in Discipline, [Page 235] ‘That if one or more of the people shall move or stir up strife, or conten­tion, to disjoyn and break the Union of the Church, concerning some Point of their Doctrine or Discipline, or about the method, manner, or style of the Catechism, of the Administra­tion of the Sacraments or Publick Prayers, and the blessing of Matrimo­ny; and will not promise not to spread ought of their opinion in any manner or way whatsoever, till the Synod hath heard them, they shall be censured as rebellious persons: And in case they will not renounce their Errors after all means tryed to con­vince them, then they are to be cut off from the Church. But in case a Pastor, or Elder Ib. Art. 32. Con­cerning the Consistory., trouble the Peace and break the Union of the Church, or cause any strife, or contention, a­bout some point of Doctrine or Di­scipline, (which they have subscribed unto) or about Administration of the Sacraments, or the form of Catechism, or Publick Prayers, and Benediction of Marriage; and will not yield to what the Classical As­sembly shall determine, he shall pre­sently be suspended from his charge [Page 236]and imployment, to be proceeded a­gainst at the next Provincial or Na­tional Synod. And if any Minister teach false Doctrine, and will not forbear after Admonition, he is to be deposed: as also those who are not obedient to the Admonitions of the Consistory; or are convicted of He­resie, Schism, or Rebellion against the Ecclesiastical Order Ib. Ch. 1. Coacern­ing Mini­sters and Pastors. Art, 45..’ As for those who thrust themselves into the Mini­stry in Countries and Places where the Preaching of the Gospel is already pure and lawfully established, and will not desist when they are warned of it; they are to be cut off quite, and proceeded against as the Synods judg fit: together with those that follow and adhere to them, if after the like warning and ex­hortation given to them, they do not forbear and forsake them Artie. 55.. This Or­der and Discipline, we are told at the end of the Book, hath been resolved and concluded in no less than 27. National Synods from 1559. to 1637. The places, the years, and the days of the Month being all there named. Now, what hath your prating Philagathus to say to this? Is this Persecution, or hard usage, or is it not? If it be not so in them, there [Page 237]is none among us. For we do no more than they do; and, if those who are de­prived for Rebellion against Ecclesiastical Order happen to be very poor, and fall into distress; we can help that no more than they.

I am loath to condemn those Churches.

Then acquit us. Or if any list to condemn both, a great many more must fall into the same condemnation with us. Even at Frankfort in Queen Maries days, those who dissented from Mr. Horn, and Mr. Chambers, &c. found fault with them, for desiring to be of their Church without subscribing their Disci­pline: a thing said they, which you your selves would never grant to o­thers Troubles at Frankf. p. 85..

Pray do not run so far back.

I need not: for it is sufficient to let you know, that you condemn your selves when you make all these com­plaints against us. You were very per­emptorily resolved heretofore, that the Magistrate might suffer none to instruct the people but such as he thought fit. Who can deny it, said a Writer Apology for Mr. J. Good­win. 1653. in the late Times to be a priviledge and duty of a Master of a Family to admit only such [Page 238]to teach in his house as his Conscience shall be satisfied in, and warrant him to receive? or, to come a little nearer, will the Churches distinguished by the name of Independents and Anabaptists admit of any person wholly unknown, or known to be grossly ignorant a scandalous, to teach in their Congregations, without their approbation and assent first obtained? If not (as it is presumed they will not) let no man scruple, to allow th [...] thing to be the Right of the Magistrate a a publick Parent, in the disposal of publick Places and Revenues to persons to be approved by himself, or such a he shall think meet, to be trusted therein, which is claimed as a right by every private Parent.

We are not against this.

Why do you complain then, as I you, not the King and those he appoints, should judg who are fit to be imployed in teaching his subjects.

You know our Ministers are fit enough, but they cannot conform [...] some Laws.

Hath his Majesty power to exact Laws for the better ordering of the Church, or no?

I love not to be questioned about these matters.

You did not stay to be askt the Question heretofore, but declared the Magistrate not only might, but ought to establish Ecclesiastical Laws, and more than that, compel men to observe them, or else be gone Answer to A. S. 1644. p. 12.

That's too quick work.

His Majesty says so too: and bids you be gone only to your own homes; there you are free. But you were so in love with compulsion heretofore, that you called it the life and power of your Government. At least, this was the sense of a great number; Witness that De­claration of the Kingdom of Scotland, in which they complain, that Religion was not settled according to the Cove­nant, in life and power I find it in the An­swer to it, and to the Commiss. upon the New Pro­pos. 4 Jan. 1648 p. 7., i. e. as the complaint goes on; Liberty was granted for all ways of Worship, and it was or­dained, that none should be forced to the establishment.

Would it were so ordained now.

That wish would have been better, when you had power to do what you desire. But then you wisht quite con­trary; and indeed, ever thought it re­quisite to good Government, that the people should be tyed strictly to the [Page 240]Laws, and punished, according to their fault, if they transgressed. This was so far from cruelty, or hard usage in your opinion, that it was thought useful and necessary, not only for the General good, but his particular benefit who suf­fered. Mr. Walter Travers Answ. to a Suppli­catory Epi­stle of G. T. p. 24., a person much esteemed by your Fore-fathers, declared long ago, ‘That if the Magi­strates did not command and compel the people by severity of Laws and Punishments to serve the Lord, what ignorant and ungodly perswasion soever they have to the contrary, they shall not only become guilty of not doing the duty God requires of them; but al­so no Christian Estate or Policy could stand. For this would soon be every mans answer, in case of being enjoyned any thing concerning God or Men, how holy or just soever it were that did dislike him, that his Conscience is against it.’

I never heard of any good that hath been wrought on any by these pu­nishments.

But others have; as the same per­son tells you Ib. p. 18.. ‘For both many others are hereby kept in duty, that they do not in like sort fall away; and who can [Page 241]tell what it may please God to work even in them hereafter by this means, w^ch have not yet profited by it? Sure I am, it hath done good to many in times past, who by this means have been recovered from their undutiful disobedience, unto a godly Re­formation.’ And what if it have not pro­fited some, must the Medicine therefore be neglected St. Aug. words Epist. 48., because the Pestilential Contagion of certain persons is Incurable?

No. But it is hard to conceive how such severe courses should bring men back to the Church.

You could understand it heretofore without any difficulty; and thought you could demonstrate, that they were very powerful means Modest defence of London Ministers Letter to the Assem­bly, licen­sed by Mr. Cranford. 1646. pag. 22, 23, 24. to bring in wandring souls. The reasons you gave were these. Some wordly lust, whether it be content or dis­content, being usually the ground of Here­sie or Sects, deprive men of that content which was the ground of their Error, and you strike at it in the very root. Many ad­here to a Party rather out of Policy than Conscience, whom, when their design fails, you will see fall off like leaves in Autumn. ‘It will easily appear then, how a Prison, or other penalty (these are your words) may work upon a Sectary. First, it will remove the Beam of Carnal Content which blinded his Eyes. Secondly, It may [Page 242]set Conscience on work, as rough usage did Joseph's Brethrens. Thirdly, It may free a man from distractions and seducing company, that he may have leisure and opportunity seriously to bethink himself of his grounds, &c. which thing by Gods gracious assistance may work a strange alteration in him.’

Dimness of sight can never be re­covered by stripes.

That's true. ‘But yet he that shuts his own eyes, or blindfolds himself with his hand, may by Correction be made to open the one, or to take away the other. A sharp Medicine also instilled into the Eye will remove this Pin and Web, bet­ter than all the fairest speeches and strongest reasons in the world. However, if Bedlam cannot reduce such a one, yet it may restrain him from infecting others.’

You are very severe methinks, I did not think you had been still of so harsh a spirit.

I only repeat your own words, that you may see what your reasonings were, when you came to settle a Government a­mong us. For my part, I love clemency so much, that I think we may say of it, (in the words of one of your Writers in those Times) ‘as of fair weather, it is pity it should do any harm. But if is do, it is a [Page 243]cruel pity Mr. John Good win's Quaeries Question­ed. 1653. pag. 13.. He hurts the good who spares the bad.’ Yet I delight in meekness and gentleness, and as I would have been glad to have seen more of it practised by them who most plead for it, so I would to see no need of any thing else to be used now. ‘Nor should the Magistrate, though he have so large a power, go to the utmost therof, but upon extream necessity. For his end being the same with our Saviours, not to destroy mens lives, but to save them, I suppose him to be the wisest Magistrate who can most easily attain it, and govern the Church and State, with the least pu­nishments.’ For severity of Laws is an Ex­probration of the Magistrates want of care, in not preventing that extremity of offence which doth require them. All which considered, no­thing seems to many wise and moderate men more conducing to your good and the Magistrates honour, than a due execution of those Laws, you are now under; lest by your wanton contempt and bold breach of them, you make it necessary they should be changed for more rigorous: which God forbid. Why do you shake your head?

To hear you talk on this fashion.

There are none of you but would say the same, were you in Authority. You would not leave men at liberty to do as they pleased: And though some particular per­sons [Page 244]suffered that could not conform, you would say, it is better it should be so, than the Publick Order be disturbed; and that those small punishments would prevent greater; and that they were beholden to you for your strictness, since without it they might grow so wild, that you should be constrained to severity. For you did not think it safe heretofore, so much as to connive at those who would not be obedient to the established Government and Discipline. That, as Mr. Case told the Lords, was next door to a Toleration. It is a Toleration in Figures, though not in words at length Sermon before the Peers. March. 25. 1646.. Nor are the Independents of a different mind, who keep an Uniformity, when they have power in their hands, as we see in the Churches of New England; where they agree in their pra­ctices, though not in their Principle: Some being for that way of Church-Administra­tions, as it is called, by the Direction of par­ticular Rules in Scripture, which seem to them very clear, but others, to whom those Scriptures seem to be mis-applied, con­forming to it upon the more General Rules of Scripture, viz. of Charity and Christian Peace. Which is according to a Maxime planted in the Nature of things (as we are told by one here, in a Preface to a Book of a New-England Teacher Mr. James Noyes of Newbury in N. E. Temple Measured. 1647.) which do often act contrary to the Rule of their particular [Page 245]Nature, for the Conservation of the Uni­verse. And were we, saith he, as well grounded upon it as our Brethren of New-England be, we should both the more prefer the Peace and Tranquillity of this Church (which is a General good) above our own pri­vate inerest; and the less censure them, who upon the same Principle have sometimes ta­ken (and will doubtless have the wisdom al­ways to take) just Animadversion upon them that cause Divisions, and are disturbers of the Churches peace; though they may haply plead their Conscience, and transform themselves in­to Angels of Light.

Conscience is a tender thing, and must be tenderly dealt withal.

So Mrs. Hutchinson said, and yet they banished her out of New England for all that.

I thought they had had a great re­gard to Conscience.

The very same which his Majesty hath here, who tells you just as the Court told her; Your Conscience you may keep to your self, but if you shall countenance and incourage those that thus transgress the Law (a small fault you think, who transgress it your selves) you must be called in Que­stion for it: and that is not for your Con­science, but for your Practice Proceed­ing of the Court holden at New-Town. 2 Octob. 1637. pag. 34..

What Law do they transgress? The Law of God?

That was her Question; and this was their Answer, which may serve you. Yes, the Fifth Commandement, which commands us to honour Father and Mother, which includes all in Authority.

There is not one example in Scri­pture to justifie such punishments as those, for difference in judgment.

Still you will run on in your mistake. You may hold your own judgment, (as they told her partakers when they alledged this) so as the Publick Peace be not trou­bled, or endangered by it; and no body will trouble you. For the King doth not chal­lenge power over mens Consciences; but when they do such things as discover a cor­rupt Conscience, it is his duty to use his Au­thority to reform both Ib. pag. 28.. And if they com­plain of his severity, and say, he uses them hardly; they add a new fault to the for­mer, and further indanger the Publick Peace, by estranging as much as in them lies, the hearts of the people from him.

It would be better therefore, if such Laws were never made, as occasion people all this trouble.

Now you run back again. Some Laws we must have; so, that if these be altered, o­thers must come in their room. And though you may be better contented with them, yet others may as much dislike them as you do [Page 247] these. And if their disobedience be not pu­nished, it had been as well, or better, not to have punished your disobedience before; If it be, then the persons are changed, but still there will be sufferers.

It is very true. And, What would you have men do in this case?

What? Be as patient as they can. For it is an excellent thing, as some body I re­member speaks, when men who cannot be active without sinning, (as they judg) are passive without murmuring. Of this Christ and the Primitive Christians have set us an example: and it is glorious in it self, com­fortable to those in whom this virtue is, and the best way to thrive and prosper, and attain their end. The old N. C. being depri­ved, took this course, and neither thought it a just cause for a separation from us, nor complained after this Scriblers manner, but quietly submitted to the sentence. Have you not seen the Protestation made by those who were suspended or deprived in the third of King James?

No.

I'le tell you then two or three Bran­ches of it. We hold, say they protestati­on of the Kings su­premacy, &c. 160 [...]. [...]anch. 8th.; that Kings by virtue of their Supremacy have power, yea also, that they stand bound by the Law of God, to make Laws Ecclesiastical, such as shall tend to the good ordering of the Churches in [Page 248]their Dominions, and that the Churches ought not to be disobedient to any of their Laws, &c. But in case the King should command things contrary to the Word, they declare Branch. 9th. that they ought not to resist him there­in, but only peaceably to forbear obedience, and sue unto him for grace and mercy; and where that cannot be obtained, meekly to submit themselves to the punishment. And further Branch. 11th., that he may by his Authority in­flict as great punishments upon them for the neglect of his Ecclesiastical Laws, as upon any other subjects, &c.

I wish however, that the punish­ments had been less—

Or they more patient Christians—

For then we should not have had these sad complaints of sufferings, hard­ships, and miseries.

And Persecution—

No, he will not call it so; though he confesses the N. C. in Scotland live in a hotter climate than we do here—

We understand his phrase very well, They are intolerably persecuted, though you be not.

He only says, such severity being used against them, as would make a mans heart to bleed P. 244. of his Book..

Yes, if Fame may be trusted, (as he adds) which we know hath brought many a [Page 249]lye to him, and is as little to be trusted as himself. For you may be sure of this, that they are better used a great deal, than they used others heretofore.

Whence shall I have that assurance.

From a little Book newly come forth there, and said to be published by Order, where in answer to these complaints of Se­verity, I find these words modest and free Conference between a C. and a N. C. [...]ant the present distemper [...] in Scot­land. 1669. p. 11. and more you may read. p. 60.. I must so far ju­stifie the rigour you have met withal, as to shew it is far short of yours. The people are required to do nothing, but live peaceably and joyn in wor­ship, whereas you made them swear to you. And the Ministers are not made swear to main­tain the present establishment, (mark this) and to root out the contrary, as you did: they are only required to concurr in Discipline, and to promise submission to Episcopacy. A great peice of business! most grievous and severe Impositions! What will they conform un­to, who cannot away with such small things as these? Must such reasonable Laws as these be changed, only to humour them? If they be not; then there is no help for it, they must be deprived. And if they are so far from submitting to Episcopacy, that they set themselves against the Government, they may with the greater reason be sharp­ly dealt withal; who are so fiery as to op­pose that which is so innocent. But yet I can hear of no such terrible proceedings [Page 250]against them, as this man talks of: For the fore-named Book tells us P. 32., whatsoever noise they make about Persecution, it is more on the side of the C. than of the Non­conformists. For to an ingenuous spirit, it is a far greater trial, if he be not above such things, to be aspersed and railed at e­very where, and made the hatred of the people, than to suffer a little in the world. Which suffering also, I must tell you, though it may conduce in the end much to their good, yet it puts their Governours to a new trouble to inflict it, after they have been long troubled, nay, persecuted by their perversness and fierce oppositions. For tell me, I pray you, (they are the words of St. Austin Against Cresconius quoted in this case long ago, [...] plain Declar. 1590. pag. 68.) when a man that is in a Phrensie doth vex the Physician, and the Physician binds him; whether do both per­secute each other, or no? If that be not a Persecution which is done to his disease, then certainly the Physician doth not per­secute the phrantick or mad-man, but he persecutes the Physician. His Application is, that the Penal Laws of the Princes were as the Bands of the Physician to bind the phrensie and furious out-rage of the Dona­tists: Who made such a clatter there about their Persecution, and grievous sufferings, as this Philag. and others do among us. O, said they, when any Law came forth against [Page 251]them, now your Bishops have inflamed the Rulers to persecute us. They have made them our Enemies, to deprive us of that li­berty which Christ hath left us. We ought not to be compelled: our wills were made free, and you may not offer a force to them. And so they run on in long Declamations against the Catholick Church for using them so cruelly, for all the world, like this bawl­ing Writer of yours: who I think, in my Conscience, would have been more modest, if he had not been so gently used.

Phy for shame!

I know what I say; there is always less murmuring, and men are more thank­ful for the liberty which is allowed them, when Laws are strictly and constantly exe­cuted. But now the Nation is filled, as he confesses, with clamours and noises of their great sufferings and miseries; which he re­peats in a most doleful manner, I cannot tell how often. This he begins withal, p. 5, 6, 7. And again we meet with it, p. 79, 80. And thrice P. 149, 220, 229. more, before he comes to a tedious set discourse about it, p. 231, &c. In which he makes their contempt a part of their suf­fering, (a thing which they pour on us far more than we on them) and Excommuni­cation also, which is commonly for their obstinate contempt of the Court; nay, the want of those degrees in the University [Page 252]which they may have a mind unto, and of Dignities and Offices, are thrown in to make up the tale (though he pretends that he cares not to mention them) whereby we may see how sorely they are hurt who have list and leisure to think of such things. And yet he hath not done with it neither, but we find him bemoaning their condition a­gain P. 283.: as if like the poor Samaritan, they were stript of their rayment, wounded, and half dead. And once more in his Preface; and in how many other places I cannot tell: For to read the whole Book, is no less toil than to travail through long Desarts a foot, without any company; which makes me loth to go thorough it again. It is to seek fruit in the Garden of Tantalus, to look for one leaf, that will give a man either profit or pleasure.

This Pride doth not become you.

I can see nothing of that in this cen­sure. But if there were, you of all other peo­ple should wink at it, who by his own con­fession, are the proudest men in the Nation.

O abominable! He never was so mad yet, as to grant you that.

What think you of those words. If the Non conformist at this day be thought too high and too proud, he only groweth like Camomile, because he is trod and trampled upon; for of Ca­momile it is said, the more it is trodden on, the more it grows.

I remember them, p. 281. But know not what you will make of them.

No? It is a plain demonstration, accor­ding to his reasoning, that they are grown intolerably high and proud; because they are (as he would have you believe) intolera­bly afflicted and distressed, p. 249. A most excellent improvement of Affliction! and arguing much of the Power of godli­ness!

Come, Sir, jeer no more at godli­ness; for you have done it too much alrea­dy. Your Book is an exact method and plat­form to extirpate practical holiness Preface. pag. 12.—What makes you giggle in so serious a business?

I cannot but laugh a little at the labo­rious folly of this mans spight. This is a mere device to draw the peoples minds from attending to what I say, and to stir up their passion against me, as an Enemy and hater of godliness.

No; He doth not think you to be such an Enemy to Religion, as your Book would seem to import Ib. pag. 15., but rather hopes you are a good man Ib. p. 41. and Book. pag. 3..

That's the thing I was going to say. He overthrows all his accusation, in two words; by granting me to be Religious, and j [...]dicious too p. 105. For how is it possible, that a Godly man should contrive a way most effectual to root up godliness, and —

Stay.

You will revoke this favourable opi­nion of me, now that you see whither it will carry you.

He saith, he hath a great desire to constrain himself to think, that you may possi­bly be wise in Solomon's sense, that is, fear the Lord, p. 41.

He was, I observed, at the last, very fearful, lest he should have judged too well of me; and therefore, as you say, doth but constrain himself, nay, hath only a great desire to constrain himself (but, it seems, would not do it) and that but to think that it is possible, I may be a good man. With which I am very well contented, and if you please, I will give him all his good hopes of me back again, having no need at all of them. It is sufficient for me, that he acknow­ledges, he is far from thinking it was my de­sign to overthrow piety, though he is sure it is the end of my Book Preface. pag. 12.. For mark, I beseech you, the absurdity of this. How is it pos­sible for a man by mere chance, having no such design in his head, to form so many A­phorisms, Maxims, and Stratagems, all tend­ing to one and the same end, viz. the sub­verting of godliness and introducing impie­ty; and that so exactly, methodically, and per­tinently Ib. pag. 15., as nothing can be more fitted for this purpose? Make out this to me, if you [Page 255]can, for I protest to you, I am utterly to seek how this should come to pass. There must be a design of the Author in it, or else he could never have done it with as much skill as Campanella shewed, when he went to work for the extirpating Protestantism, and setling Popery throughout England Ib.. Nay, no Engineer, he tells you, could have given more proper counsel how to slight any fort, or strong hold, and how to level it with the ground, than I have given, how true Re­ligion may be plucked up root and branch.

These things, I confess, do not hang well together.

Malice we see wants wit. And after all his labour, he hath but brought forth the Apothecaries Beast, which Julian the Pelagi­an upbraided St. Austin withal. A creature of wonderful strange properties, as he made his Patient believe, and promised he should see the next day, which before morning came had eaten up her self. For, if I went so judiciously and accurately to work to over­throw all godliness, it must be my design to overthrow it; but he is far from thinking that; and therefore there are no such exact Aphorisms and Stratagems, but his better thoughts have destroyed those vain imagi­nations, unless you can believe that Books may be made by shuffling so many Letters together; or Batteries and Engines raised, [Page 256]with throwing so many skuttles full of dirt, and so many bundles of sticks together on a heap.

But the God of this world, I remem­ber, he says, so for the present blinded your eyes. p. 15.

What? That I should contrive all this and never know it? The good man hath plung'd himself so deep in a contradiction, that he is fain to fly to the Devil to help him out. But, I pray, who gave him Autho­rity to stretch the Devils power so far, that it may be thought to do the same upon a Believer, which the Apostle saith, he did upon Infidels? And what is there that can blind any mans eyes, but Covetousness, Lust, Ambition, Anger, Hatred, or some such evil affection or passion? Which if the Faith of Christ have not purged out of my heart, I have no desire to constrain my self to think that it is possible I am a good Christian. The very bottom of the business is this: It is not god­liness, but themselves for which he is so much concerned and keeps all this stir. For the Question is not, whether we shall all heartily and earnestly study to be Godly, that is, to love and obey our Creator above all things, according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ; but whether you be the only godly, or so much beyond all others, as you ima­gine? and whether that be the Power of [Page 257]godliness, which is vulgarly called by that name. This I denied; and this made him so angry. Notwithstanding which I still be­lieve, that many among us, whom some of you make little account of, are more tho­roughly and substantially good, than many among you, upon whom you liberally be­stow that name; who value themselves more upon the score of keeping Days, repeat­ing Sermons, talking of Religion and Experi­ences, than for Justice, Charity, speaking Truth, Peaceableness, Meekness, Obedience, and such like virtues, to which I find them very great strangers. Now in stead of acknow­ledging the emptiness of the former with­out the latter, and how much the poor peo­ple have been cosened by forms of Religion, and canting Phrases, which some of your selves have confessed, when it would serve their turn—

Where did they acknowledg it?

Some Officers of the Army told the rest, that setting a part days for seeking of God, when the way is not good, will not hereafter blind English mens eyes. Doing things unwar­rantably, and then intituling God to them, as they will never the more be owned by him, so they will be never the more accept­able to discerning men Humble representa­tion to the Lieft. Gen. Nov. 1. 1659.. Thus also the pu­rest of you all thought it no profaness heretofore to unmask the hypocrisie of [Page 258]some great Zealots in Religion (as they thought it) and expose their canting to scorn. To omit Mr. Edward's, (for brevity sake) the Author of the Image of our Re­forming Times Or J [...]hu in his pro­per Co­lours. 1654. p. 11, 12., set out, you know whom, under another name in this manner; ‘Jehu will have a word for all his Actions, and do all according to the mind of the Lord. O Heavenly man, whose tongue is tipt with Scripture, the Experiences of the Saints, and the Revelation of the Prophets!’ But now (as I was going to say before you inter­rupted me) we have found a man that would fain blind the eyes of English-men as much as ever; and in stead of confessing honestly, as others have done, that a great many walk in a vain show and image of godliness, who deny the true power of it; he amuses you with a long discourse of a Design laid to o­verthrow all Religion, root and branch: And for that end, presents you with a great many Maximes and Aphorisms, composed with much art to that wicked purpose: Such as these; Let there be no Godly Discourse; Let keeping of Days of Fasting and Prayer be jur­ed; Let mirth and jollity be in incouraged. Teach men to distrust their spiritual senses; with di­vers others of the same Nature. Which are none of mine; as every one may see that can read a Book: But he throws in your faces the snivel of his own nose; and would make you believe it is not the excrement of his brain, but of mine.

How came such a word to drop from your mouth?

Are they uncivil?

I doubt they will be thought so.

They are the words of Mr. Baxter Postscript to his Book of the True Catholick Church. pag. 283., without any alteration, to another man who accused him absurdly; and may as well be applied to this. Who after he had filled a great part of his Book with such senseless stuff as I now ment oned, makes a long snuf­ling Preface to the same effect. And some of your people, I am told, receive it with as much contentment, as if he had come out of that Country, where (if we will believe a story Lucian. Ver. Hist. Lib. 1. like his Discourse) the dropping of the peoples Noses, is sweeter than Honey.

You did well to say some; for all have no such good opinion of it.

There is no man, that being puft up with a good opinion of himself, speaks with confidence and zeal, but will find some ad­mirers; though his Noddle be lighter than an Oak Apple; and as void of wit as Cock­les are of meat in the wane of the Moon. A sad thing indeed it is, that the world should be troubled and abused by some men of emptiness and noise: but so it always was, and we must be contented with it. Nay, grave and solemn persons, are sometimes carried with a furious zeal to accuse their opposites, of such impieties as never entred into their thoughts: and will make their [Page 260]Books speak, what the Authors never so much as dreamt. Mr. Calvin and other Re­formers (it is possible Philagathus may know) were charged with depraving and a­dulterating the sense of the Holy Scri­ptures, which give testimony to the Deity of our Saviour Christ. And there is one Feu-ar­ [...]entius his Notes upon [...]he Frag­ments of [...]renaeus. [...]ag. 508. who hath given us a Beadrole of them longer than that of the Aphorisms, which this new zealot hath fansied to himself, and formed out of my Book. In his Comments also upon the Epistle of Sr. Jude, writing on those words, v. 4. Ungodly Men, he tells us among other things, that Calvin would have the Holy Trinity, neither to be adored, nor in­vocated Com­ment. in Epist. [...]udae. [...]595 [...]ag. 87.. And upon those words, denying the Lord Jesus Christ, he gives us a Catalogue of the Old and New Hereticks, who opposed the Deity and Majesty of our Saviour; and after Simon Magus, Menander, and the rest of that Rabble, come Luther, Calvin, and their followers, as men that preached and writ much against the Mystery of the Trinity, the Majesty of God the Father, and the Deity of Christ and of the Holy Ghost Ib. [...]ag. 117.. But what need I go so far back for instances of this kind, when it is but a few years ago, since Mr. Baxter was solemnly accused for a Pa­pist by Mr. Crandon? And Mr. Eyre of Salis­bury endeavoured to perswade the world, that when he wrote against the Antinomians he meant Antipapists Confess. [...] Faith. [...]ag. 6.; just as this man [Page 261]would perswade you, that when I write a­gainst N. C. I mean Religious people, and such as oppose profaness. Nay, he made such a Monster of him, as if you should con­ceive the Body of a Horse to be joined to the Head of a Man; for he said, he was a So­cinian, Papist, and Jesuite: And, that he was not only a down right Papist, but one of the grosser sort; and that he subtilly endeavour­ed the Propagation of Popery, and all his pretences to the contrary were but Jesuiti­cal dissembling; and lastly, that no Papist spoke more of Merit than he did. Others undertook to conjure the Devil of Pelagia­nism out of him, as he himself also tells us Disputa­tions about the right t [...] Sacra­ments. pag. 520.. And another Vindi­cation of [...] Sir Hen. Vane. 1659. accuses him of calumnies and invectives against the most eminent Protestants; reckoning up withal eight godly men (whose names he mentions) that had writ against him. And I find mention in Mr. Baxter of three more (whose names are not there) beside, Mr. Blake, which make them up a dossen. And that you have 13. to the dossen, I may cast in Mr. Will. Lyford, who put him into the black bill of those who are guilty of Errors and Heresies, because of some opinions of his about the sin against the holy Ghost. Nay, some boldly published him to be a Subverter of Fundamentals (ob­serve it) even then when he was constrain­ed to be as confident, that he should subvert the foundation it self, if he should think o­therways [Page 262] Confess. of Faith pag. 111.. What need I add more, to shew the mad zeal of some Ignorant people, than these memorable words of his? I look not to scape the fangs of such excepters, if I say, that I believe in God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; for no doubt, but some of them can find Heresie, or somewhat that countenances it, in this Appen­dix to the Disp. of the Sacra­ments. pag. 487.. They love to quarrel with every thing, when they have once taken a pique at a Book: and let your writing be never so innocent, they smell some dangerous design in it. For which purpose, you will scarce find a man who hath a better nose than this caviller; who, either for want of under­standing, or else through passion and ha­tred, misinterprets and perverts every thing that he meddles withal.

You make him a strange man.

I'le prove it to purpose, before we have done; and hope that all his clamours, will be of no more force to make you be­lieve, that I have laid any platform to bat­ter down all godliness, than the many Vo­lumns writ against Mr. Baxter will per­swade you, he is a Papist, a Subverter of the Faith, and calumniator of Protestant Di­vines. For there is no more impiety in my Book, than there is Popery in his; nor will any body have such a thought, unless it be such as come to suck poyson, and food for their censuring opinionative zeal, out of the Books they read They are his words concerning one of his..

Some men love to be doing—

Though it be but to disturb those things which lie well enough already. And they fansie they are doing some mighty ser­vice to the world, merely because they put themselves to a great deal of trouble. Wit­ness this busie man, whose pains to remove this stumbling-block out of the way (as he calls it) is altogether as idle, as was the la­bour of Marchetto Piombino: who going to Rome to seek a Master, and lighting by chance upon a stone in the way, began to spurn it with his foot; and in this imploy­ment spent so much of his time, that when all his companions returned back, they found him still troubled about this stone; which he was resolved, he said, to spurn as far as Rome, and there thrust it into the walls so far, that it should never more an­noy such strangers as travailed thither.

Pray do not imitate him; but let us pass by this occasion of offence, which hath turned us out of our way I am sure; for I was going to tell you, that you are thought to have arrived to the highest degree of Pride.

To walk, you had better have said, on the Battlements of Pride.

Pray hear me seriously: for it is no laughing matter.

If the power of laughing, as a very se­rious and holy Divine Dr. Jackson of the Cath. Church. pag. 176. of our own said a [Page 264]great while ago, proceed from the nature of man, and the nature of man consist in Reason, it will be very hard for any man to refrain laughing, that hath but so much rea­son as to consider the vanity of this mans Conclusions. The case is this; Because in writing a Discourse between two persons of opposite perswasions and parties, I re­presented the one commending his Parish Priest (whom he must be supposed to hear) or rather vindicating him from that con­tempt and scorn which the other party poured on him, he infers that I commend my self, and boast of my own reason and skill in the holy Scripture. He had best go and teach his Mother to suck; instruct the University in a new way of drawing con­clusions; for no body ever learnt any such Logick there. And till this upstart Reform­er set Pen to Paper, any body might make two men maintain a Dialogue as long as he pleased, of matters disputed between the Parties they adhered to, and never be thought he spoke of two single persons on­ly. But the sport of it is; Our new Doctor will have that which is said of the N. C. in our Debate to reach to all and every one of that party, or else it signifies nothing; but what is said of the C. must be confined to a single person, and that's my self alone. In good time he may make an incomparable [Page 265]Expounder of Books, if he do but follow (as he hath begun) those Rules which passion and spight will dictate to him, and never let a sober thought enter into his head. For (mark it again) after he hath so often stretcht what is said against the N.C. to eve­ry one of them, he can find in his heart at some turns to restrain my words to one sin­gle person; even then when I speak in the plural number. Such is the perversness of his humour, that he will interpret what I say, quite contrary ways, if thereby he can lay hold of any occasion to cavil, and load me with the ill will and hatred of his credu­lous Companions. As, for example, when he takes notice of what I said concerning the black and white caps upon some N. C. Ministers heads P. 88. of his Book., he presently tells you (in spight of all that he had said himself, and of the large ness of my words) that it is strongly conjectu­red who is the mark I aimed at, and that it is his good head-piece I am more offended with, than his caps and lace. But he hath always as ill luck in his conjectures as in his reason­ings. For I had no particular man in my thoughts, I assure you; and, to confess the truth, spoke only from what I remembred since I was a boy, and from their pictures in Books, not from any observation since I was a man. As for any of their head-peices, I neither fear nor envy them; though they were as good as Mambrino's golden Helmet. [Page 266]Only I must remember you, that men of such like brains as his, have as little judg­ment in head-pieces, as that D [...]n, who took a Barbers bason, for that impenetrable Hel­met. Nor can I look upon this whole inven­tion of his otherwise, than as a malicious piece of his folly, which would reproach me as effectually as he was able, and lay all the blots, which his little wit could devise, upon my reputation. But I may rest con­tented with it; for far better men, than I shall ever be, have been thus dealt withal by ill nature, when it could only cavil, even then when they wrote no Dialogues. The Reverend Professers and Ministers of Aber­dene, for instance, when they only told the Ministers who came to urge the Covenant, ‘that there were other means and more effectual than their Covenant, to use for holding men from Popery, mentioning in particular, extraordinary Humiliations, frequent Prayer, amendment of Life, dili­gence in Preaching, and searching the Scriptures Reply the Eleventh. 1638.;’ they presently received this Answer to their Reply, You have taken an ample testimony to your selves of pains in dispu­ting, writing, and preaching, and in doing all things that can be expected from the most zea­lous; of frequent prayer to God, of humbling your selves before him, of your holiness of life and conversation, &c. As if they had arrogated to themselves some singularity in using these [Page 267]means, when they only said, that there were such means which might and ought to be used, not that they were eminent above o­thers in the diligent use of them. If either they or I had said as this man doth, there is one of great moderation, but he shall be nameless, P. 225. of his Book. &c. you might have suspected we meant our selves, and wrote our own commenda­tion, which is very familiar with him, not only in this Book, but also in others; where he tells you, the whole tenor of his conver­sation and practice hath alway proclaimed him a moderate man, of a reconciling spirit, and of an healing temper Preface to Lon­don's Re­surrection.. Without all doubt: He hath given us an ample testimony of it in this New Book. In which, me thinks, it looks far more like boasting than any thing I have said, to tell us in how short a time he finished this great work; having in less than six weeks space Pag. ult. of the So­ber An­swer. demolished a great many Fortresses, Bulwarks, and Strong holds; and carried into captivity every notion that ex­alted it self against Truth and Godliness, de­feated and confuted so many Stratagems, Maximes, and Aphorisms, as he hath muster­ed up in his Preface; and yet he hath not mentioned all, as he himself assures you Preface. pag. 24.. There are many other exploits that he hath performed besides these; He hath rectified mistakes, given an account of the N. C. opini­ons, of the reasons of their actions, of the method of repairing breaches; and by the way told us, [Page 268]the Hinge of the Controversie, the Knot of the Question Preface. pag. 40., with many fine knacks beside; all which he hath accomplished sooner by a third part, than a Bitch can bring you forth a litter of Puppies. Who could have said more of him, than he hath said of him­self? If this be modesty, it will be hard to find a man that can compare with him i [...] this great virtue. He is the fittest Messenger that could be sent to buffet me for my spi­ritual pride: a disease, I perceive, so incide [...] to men of his Education, even when they have very little to be proud of; that he ima­gines we cannot live without it, but must ra­ther swell to such a bigness, that we are sai [...] to ease and vent our selves in boasting. But I must take leave to tell you, that my breed­ing hath been otherways; having been taught from the beginning, to lay the foun­dation of all true wisdom and goodness i [...] humility of mind, and not to think it so great a busines, if I understood a little more than the vulgar people. And since he con­strains me to say a few words of my self, I shall, without intrenching, I hope, upon any rule of modesty, add thus much; that of all other follies, I find my self the least incli­ned to that which he accuses me of, being still disposed at this day rather to be a learn­er, than an instructor of others. And as I have not one jot the worse opinion of my self, for all that he hath blattered against [Page 269]me, so I have not one jot the better opinion of my self, for all the praise which, he saith, others bestow upon me. I have other and truer measures of my self than he or they can take of me: and know very well, that I am just the same man I was, before I heard either of the one or of the other, and that they can neither add unto, nor take away from my stature.

Did you not think too highly of your abilities, when you thought no match fit for you, but a whole Assembly of Divines?

Thus Mr. Baxter was told heretofore that his words implied, he took himself to be more judicious, holy, and experienced than the Assembly Disput. of the Sa­craments. pag. 522., and I know not how many more. Which Answer was as good as any, to make those who would not be at the trouble to try all things, to think him to be both proud and ignorant. But I cannot chuse but won­der a little at the impudent folly of this man in repeating this charge so often Pag. 81, 129, 195, 196.. Do not they take the liberty when they list to dispute against whole Councils of greater men? Doth not this little Sophister himself take so much upon him, as to reprove the Ʋniversities of this Kingdom, for negligence and injustice too in bestowing degrees P. 241. where he saith, they let Papists slip into Degrees & withhold them from N. C. How he can make good his charge I know not.? Nay, Did they not think themselves fit to reform all the world, and hope that their Gospel-Covenant should fly to the ends of the Earth Conti­nuation. pag. 148, 149.? What Infallible Chair then, I [Page 270]beseech you, was there in this Assembly, that all must submit unto; and no man date to open his mouth against? I know the usual Prayer of your Preachers was, when they first met together, that God would shew them the pattern in the Mount Modest offer. pag. 1, 1644.. And Mr. J. Salt­marsh himself addressed an Epistle to them with this Inscription, To the most Sacred and Reverend Assembly; and begins it with this compellation, Most Sacred Divines Exam. of Mr. Ful­lers Ser­mon.. As if they lookt for some new Discovery from Heaven, that should make them so many spiritual Kings and Emperours, from whose Sovereign Authority none might appeal. But they did not long keep this Veneration even among your selves. To omit the rail­ings of Martin's Eccho, and others: This ve­ry man, who held them for most Sacred, and thought their shade most comfortable and miraculously healing, within a few years for­sook them, and ran from under it, for fear of a yoke which he saw them laying upon his neck. It is no small incouragement, said he, in the year 1642. That I sit like the Prophetess under the Palm tree, under such a shade as yea [...] selves. Whatsoever weakness may appear in my assertions, your Patronage will heal them. For [...] they brought forth the sick into the streets, th [...] at least the shaddow of Peter might touch s [...] of them. But this Song of Praise, was turn'd by 1646. into sighs and groans; and he told them, you call for a y [...]ke, which neither we n [...] [Page 271]our Fathers were able to bear Salt­marsh Groans for Liberty. 1646.. Then they were lookt upon as so many Tyrants; and some were so bold as to challenge them all to dispute with them Compass. Sama­ritan. p. 58, 59.. And one feared not to tell them in the conclusion, that, an Army or Kingdom of strange opinions were brought forth, and they had not laid any one of them upon their backs, by Argument Answer to the Decl. of the Kingd. of Scotl. 4 Jan. 1648. pag. 6.. But you can wink when you list at those things among your selves, which you call by all the odious names you can invent, when you do but fan­sie them in another man. Being very much like the Lamiae, whom you have heard of, I make no doubt, the story is so common; who carried their eyes in their head when they were abroad, and at home closed them up in a box. We may not so much as smile at your affected language, no, not reprove your canting and gross abuse of Scripture phrases; if we do, you say we are profane, scurrilous, blasphemous, and what not? but you may abuse the most innocent things, and sport with them as much as you are a­ble, and this passes for pleasant discourse, and sanctified wit. There was a very sober and discreet Petition, for instance, from the County of Kent, to the House of Com­mons Printed with many other by or­der from his Ma­jesty. 20. May. 1642., in which, after their thanks for those excellent Laws, which they had ob­tained from his Majesties goodness, they prayed among other things, that they might enjoy the solemn use of the Liturgy quiet [Page 272]and free from interruption, scorns, pro­phaness, threats and force; and that Epi­scopal Government might be preserved, Papists suppressed, differences concerning Religion and Ceremonies determined in a Lawful free and National Synod, &c. In short, there is not one offensive word in it but only Liturgy and Bishops, which brought all those scoffs on it, which were wont to be thrown on them. A grave person (as he would seem to be by his Book Late Co­venant as­serted. 1643. pag. 24.) entertain­ed you with a mock Petition, after this dull fashion, Humbly sheweth, That since it was well with your Petitioners when like People like Priest, they would go to the Alehouse with us, and we could offer cakes to the Queen of Hea­ven—

Now you mock him in Scripture phrase.

They are his own words, I assure you: and you cannot but know how much your people love to abuse us in the Holy language, and to pick out such expressions as may sig­nifie us to be Idolaters. Philagathus himself is so used to it, that he doth it, even when he doth not know it, as I charitably believe. W. B. saith he, would not have said a word of the Bowl, and the Pottage, Had he been to pr [...] ­phesie at Bethel, or at the King's Chappel, as Amos speaketh Sober Answer. p. 264., that is, at Whitehall; where, one would imagine, the Golden Calves, are set up and worshipped.

He had no such meaning, I am confident.

It's well if others do not so ex­pound it, who know your usual meaning in such like words. But let us go on with the other Gentleman — ‘Our hearty petition (saith he) is that you would be pleased to give us our Bish­ops again (who thought no more of preaching than a Cobler of plowing, and had no more care of Souls than of their old shooes) and our Service Book, so full of good Prayers, which we can say, as our Parson doth, though half asleep, or quite drunk; and that we may have leave to be drunk and dance on Sundayes, a time designed by our good Bishop for that pur­pose —’

O abominable! No more, I pray you.

There is enough to show the wick­ [...]d Spirit that was then among you. On­ [...] for a more full demonstration of it. I [...]all add; that after he had mockt as [...]dg as he thought good, then he thinks [...] sanctifie all at the last with a little [...]nking breath which he spends in a few [...]ghs, saying twice or thrice, Poor Souls, [...]r Souls! If my head were a Fountain [Page 274]I could weep over these, and if my heart were as it should be (i. e. not full of laughter at them) I would sigh [...]t my words, Poor Souls, Poor Souls. Nay, thus he jeers at His Majesties most sol [...] Protestation, which he made at the t [...] ­king of the Holy Sacrament before the Primate of Ireland, and all the Compa­ny then present—

For Gods sake forbear; you cannot grieve our hearts more then [...] remember any scorn cast upon so sacre [...] a person.

The great pride and insole [...] which this man discovers still to rem [...] among you, makes me think it necess [...] to call these things to your mind. B [...]t will let that instance alone, unless [...] continued Folly call for it.

You should not impute t [...] faults of some to all, as you have [...] through your whole Book.

That's another instance of his dis [...] ­genuity, who will take no notice of th [...] distinction I often made between so [...] men and the rest. But will needs say [...] accuse all, even there where I expre [...] say some, as you shall hear before [...] end. The truth is, this Phil. is so [...] that he writes in many places, as [...] [Page 275]had said nothing unless I had writ a Book on purpose against him. It is e­nough he thinks to silence me, to say, I never preached, to my remembrance, one Sermon of that strain. Page 284. 280. 282. and many other places.I was never one of those flatterers: I have urged that advice several years past. Just as if he had a Saints Bell in his pocket (as your old friend, Martin said to another, Martin Marprelat Protestati­on, when one of his Books was taken in the Press. I hope you will not be offended at his words) crying ting, ting, ting. And what doth it ting? my modesty, my mo­deration, my peaceableness, my Charity; Sobe [...] Answ. p. 143. 144. 225. Nothing but my, my, my. As if he was some Universal Nature, of whom all the particular N. C. did pertake. He might at least have considered that there are several degrees of those who differ from us, and that they are so many that no man can in one breath mention them [...]ll. They were above threescore years ago most ingeniously painted, and like­ [...]ed to Anacreons A Ser­mon at St. Pauls Cross. 1 Nov. 1607. by S. Col­lins. fond loves, Some of which were perfect, some Pipient; some [...]acht, some half hatcht; some peering [...]t of the Egg, some riper in the Chick, [...]hilst others had the strength to flye nim­ [...]y away. All of them have this quality [...]o despise us, and think we know little [...] nothing of the Mystery of Godliness, [Page 276]or want the power of it: but some in their opinions are further, others a les­ser way from us. Now there is nothing in my Book which the N. C. speaks (whatsoever this man boldly talks) but some or other of them alledge against us, or reply to us; though every one doth not object or answer every thing there­in mentioned. As for those who are sorry for our breaches, and dislike the furious and factious Crew, who scorn and revile us, all that I had to say to them was, as you may remember, to desire them to separate themselves from that Herd, by frequenting the publick wor­ship of God, disclaiming their unlawful practices, opposing their bold and proud Spirit, and reproving their insolent and wicked speeches. If they will not be perswaded to this, but still continue a­mong them, countenance their cause, and joyn with them as if they were a more select and holy people, and so find themselves wounded by any thing I have writ; all that I can say to that is only this, which a very grave Author said in the like Case. ‘It may be some of you know, or have heard of that No­ble Moralizer's Fable of Amphialus, Mr. Rob. Ab­bot. Tryal of Church Forsakers, 1639. Enstle to the Rea­der. who when he was in all his Military [Page 277]accoutrements to give Combat (as he thought) to Argalus Knight of the Sun; this mans Wise dressed her self in her Husbands Armour and fought his Enemy. Amphialus spared not his blows, gave a cut in the Neck, closes, overthrows, and gives a mor­tal wound in the Body. But when he opened the Armour and viewed the Body, he found to his great sorrow, it was Parthenia, to whom he meant no hurt at all. Such is my case here, I dare not write against any of our Com­munion, the love of Brotherly peace is glorious, even among men that o­ther way differ in opinion. But if they thrust themselves among the Ene­my, nay, put on the Arms of those with whom I contend for truth, I cannot help it, if they meet with a blow: though I glory not in it, yea, am sorry there should be any such Cause.’

You have given too many blows to your betters. For I doubt your Ministry hath hardly produced those good effects as yet (so richly and plentifully I mean) as theirs have done. I doubt you can hardly say of so many as they can say so, these are the children which God hath [Page 278]given me, &c cease to vilifie those, the God hath honoured above you, as to the conversion of Souls. Discover not an e [...] ­vious Spirit —

You need not repeat any more, I have his words Sober Answer. p. 54. in mind; and remember withal, that such men have been wont of old to vilify all preaching, besides their own, and to challenge to them­selves, if not solely, yet above all others, a converting Ministry. So we were told long ago, and I speak no more, saith my Author, Sermon at Pauls Cross, 1607. pag. 73. than I know by good proof. Thither no doubt that speech of theirs tended, which was so famous in those dayes, that all the flower was of their bolting, throughout the Land. Preface to their first Peti­tion offered to King James. Which conceit continued in those that suc­ceeded, as Dr. John Burges observes. If, saith he, for shame they cannot deny Conformists to have excellent gifts, yet they limit the use of them, only to the breeding of knowledge, [...] reprehension of some grosser faults; but that their Ministry, as well as others that conform not, may work Faith and Repentance to Salvation, they will not easily acknowledge, ye [...], some falsly deny. Preface to the An­swer of B [...] Mor­tords Book, 15. 1631. This Man is one of those Daubters; being sowred very [Page 279]much with that old leaven which heaved and swel'd them up so much. He is in­clined indeed to hope that it is possible we may convert some; but alas! they are very few in compare with the Numbers that they convert. Our Ministry is not so powerful, and works not so much up­on the heart—

He speaks only of you.

You forget your self. Upon the mention of me (who had rather learn, as I told you, than teach) he tells page 14. you of an Image now adored, which is no­thing else but the preaching of Confor­mists, that must fall before theirs as Da­gon did before the Ark. They have the Ark of the Covenant; they have the pre­sence of God among them; they behold the beauty of the Lord in the Sanctuary; who therefore can stand before them? The word is given forth, and we must all down; down to the very ground. For Fire you know, goes out of the mouth of the two Witnesses, (i. e. your selves) so that, when they testifie (as another of your Interpreters expounds it Sermon of the two Witnesses Death and Resurrect­ion, 1648. p. 203. &c.) a­gainst any thing, any man, any Creature, any way, any Ordinances, any Judgment, saying, this is Heathenism, this is Gen­tilism, this is carnal, this is fleshly, this [Page 280]is the Creature, this is Man and not God or of God; presently it is destroyed, consumed, blasted, and brought to nothing. This he is so confident of, that he repeats it again and again; Whosoever shall hurt or oppose the Witnesses [the Spirit, and Spiritual act­ings of Christ and his people] be he never so great, wise, powerful, devout and Re­ligious, he shall not be able to stand, but fire proceeds from the Spirit, which tor­ments, consumes, and destroys him. For when the two Witnesses declare that it is not of God, it is not Christ, it is not the ho­ly one of God; but it is Man, it is flesh, it is the outward Court, that is excluded, not the inward Temple, therefore measure it not, leave it out, exclude it from ha­ving the dews and showers of Heaven fall upon it; presently Heaven is shut, and they have no rain, and they wither as a Plant which God hath not planted. These are your powerful men that can shut Heaven when they list, with a breath of their mouths. It is but speaking a word, and we study and plod and beat our brains and toil, and labour to no pur­pose: that blast spoyls us all.

This man had too much Fire in his head, which made his mouth so hot.

Too much Pride, you should have said in his heart, which makes so many of you despise the labours of other men as weak and unprofitable. Thus an im­pudent Libeller told the good Bishop of Galloway, ‘That others had wrought more faithfully and fruitfully, than he had done, and could teach him how to behave himself, though he seemed to himself (these men you must under­stand can search the heart) a great Doctor in Israel Answer to Tripar­tite Apolo­gy. 1614. p. 180..’ And thus also the Covenanters in late times, upbraided the Reverend Professors of Aberdeen, and they no mean persons Dr. John Forbes, Rob. Ba­ronius &c. Duplies. p. 112. neither, that their pains in preaching were not fruit­ful. To which they Answered then, as I do now, ‘That though it should be true, yet the Parable of the seed sown in divers sort of ground, and the Dolorous complaint which those most painfull and thundering Preachers Elijah, Isaiah, St. Paul, yea, and Christ himself made of their hard success in their Labours, might learn you to be more benigne in your cen­sures of us than you are.’ To which I add; that it must be left to God to judge who doth most good and makes the best men, for all are not good nor all bad, [Page 282]that such rash and ignorant men as this are wont to call by those names. We know very well, that many men who are converted to you are so far from being good that they become worse than they were before: More haughty and con­ceited of themselves; more unman­nerly to their betters, disobedient to their Masters and Governours, unbridled in their language, unpeaceable and trouble­some to their neighbours. It is an easie matter to say I wrong you, but I know what I say, and others have said it before me. It is an old observation of Mr. R. Bernards Separa­tists schism, p. 29.30. 1608., ‘That as soon as ever men enter into the way of separation, immediately they grow peremptory; and though never so simple, yet pre­sently they see the truth without any study: and can partly champer a­gainst us, and condemn us all for false Christians and false Churches. Nay, they are so bewitched with that way, that they are nothing like themselves in what was good and laudable in them. Before humble and tractable, then proud and wilfull; before they could find the word work and them­selves moved by our preaching, but afterward they judg the Minister to [Page 283]have lost the power of his Ministry, because they themselves are in affe­ction altered: blaming the Teacher, when the fault is in themselves. They can with understanding judge between cause and cause, reason and reason, but then they lick up all which comes from themselves as Oracles, be they never so absurd.’ And have we not all seen how light they all make of this great sin of Separation? The N. Eng­land Ministers themselves complain, That there is scarce any truth or error now a days can be received, but it is maintained in a way of Schism, directly contrary to the gathering and uniting Spirit of Jesus Christ Mr. Allen and Mr. Shep­herd, De­fence of the 9 posi­tions. p. 27.. And what should be the rea­son think you that men are so ready to follow this evil Spirit that is in the world, but that they have no sense of spiritual wickednesses, nay, look upon Di­visions, Separations, and all the evil consequences of them, not only as inno­cent but holy things? While the Devil, as Mr. Greenham Grave Counsels and Godly observati­ons. p. 37. well observes, ‘Was known only by horns and claws, or by the hollow voice, he was wonderfully feared; but being now revealed to be a more secret Adversary, a spiritual Tempter, a privy overthrower of [Page 284]Souls, no man almost regards him. And therefore as some have feared him too superstitiously, so now it is come to a more dangerous extremity, that he is not feared at all.’ He enters into mens hearts securely, and they are not aware of it: He rules and domi­neers there, and they rejoyce at it, thinking they are full of the Spirit of God. O how happy would it be, if all would labour to throw this Devil out, which possesses too many: Pride, high conceit of their own knowledge, glory­ing in their gifts, crowing over others as carnal or moral men, together with all the rest of his company which I have mentioned. This would be a better work, than to perswade them they are already converted when they are be­come Proselytes to a party, and too many of them, as far as we can see, by their fruits, like those made by the Pharisees, who were no less laborious, and perhaps successful than your selves.

You are mistaken, we do not call this Conversion, to become N. C.

You may speak for your self, and such as you know very well; for too many do. They glory in the Conversion of those who have only changed their [Page 285]Vices, not their Natures; and of pro­phane or neglectors of Religion, are become Schismatical, proud, censorious, and highly presuming of their know­ledge which they have got in a moment; in one word, have exchanged the sins of the flesh for those of the Spirit. Ter­tullians Perveni­mus de calcaria in Carbona­rium. L. de car­ne. Christi. Cap 6. words are an exact descrip­tion of them, if you do but invert the Proverb, They go out of the Cole-pit, into the Lime-kill: where, though they become white, yet they remain still dirty and defiled. And look how much these excell other men in zeal, and earn­estness, in height of fancy and warmth of affection, in fluency of speech and notable strains of Devotion; in so much the worse condition they are. As men in a frenzy saith Irenaeus L. 1. Cap, 13. pag. 54. (out of Hip­p [...]rates) the more they laugh and ap­pear to be vigorous and strong, doing all things like men in health, nay, somethings above what any sound men can do, so much the more dangerous is their disease: in like manner, the high­er these people are in their own thoughts, the greater store they have of Religi­ous heat, the more vehemently they bend their thoughts and strain their un­purged Souls (drawing the Arrow, as [Page 286]he speaks, beyond the Bow) the less wise they are, or rather the more mad and furious, and the more unlikely ever to return to any sobriety of mind. I would not for all the World be guilty of that Envy, which this ill-natur'd Adver­sary would make you believe I am in­fected withall. I rejoyce, I thank God, not only that men are made truly good, whosoever be the instrument of it; but that they are made wiser and better than my self. Yet I am taught, for all that, by your own Books to lessen the number of such Converts as this man braggs of. For they have informed us, for many years, of an evil generation that have separated from us, in whom, ‘as one of them tells us, Foun­tain of Slander opened, p. 25. 1649. you shall see Christ and Belial, God and Mammon, in one and the same person. Christ in show, and the other in reality. They let themselves loose to lying and dis­simulation, slandering and backbiting, and all kind of circumvention. God, Religion, Reason, Virtue, are but meer termes and notions with them, serving them to no other purpose, but to deceive the more effectually.’ And that particular of lying is confirmed by Mr. H. Peters himself, who to cry [Page 287]quit with those among you that exclaim­ed against the Army, as guilty of many Crimes, said, there are some other diseases as much considerable among o­thers, which may be of greater influ­ence, and the last he mentions is, a spi­rit of lying and false Witness bearing, e­ven to the undervaluing of our enjoyments. A word to the Ar­my, and two words to the Kingdom. 1647. pag. 9. Much more I could relate to this pur­pose, from some of your own mouths, which if it should have been writ by a­ny of us, I know what you would have said of us.

Truly you have said too much to gratifie the common Enemy; and so far (saith Philag. Preface, pag. 10.) as a man may ga­ther from your Book, you would sooner pro­mote a Cassandrian design, viz. of Union betwixt Protestants and Papists, than that betwixt C. and N. C. For you instigate Rulers to much severity against N. C. but never against Papists.

As far as a man may gather from his Answer to my Book; he would soo­ner turn a Turk than a Son of the Church of England, for he hath expressed a great deal of wrath and spite against some of us, but none at all against any of the Turks. What an untoward Adversary have I to deal withal, who, if we will [Page 288]not be impertinent, leave our business and go out of our way to dispute with a man, concludes that we have nothing to say to him? He loves so to ramble himself, that he takes it much to heart, if we will not bear him company. As W. B. pot­tage, you know, led his prophane fan­cy to the story of the Girl that cryed Butter, Butter too, when her Mother taught her the Lords prayer and came to those words, Give us our daily bread. I hope you do not mislike the word Bread in the Lords pray­er, and as thinking that ex­pression too dry, cry out as a Child did, &c. p. 265.

Why should it be called pro­phane? It is but a merry story.

In the Child it was not prophane, who knew not what it said; but in him it is impious to suppose it possible that I should mislike those holy words of our Lords, and think them defective and dry unless I might pray with this Addi­tion, Give us our daily Bread and Butter too. I did not think there had been a Divine among you, who was so much a Child, or else so little a Christian, as to write such stuff as this. Martin, in­deed was so bold, as to desire the Lord he would put it into the Assemblys heart to divide the Directory, not only into Chapters, but into Verses, into Verses too; that so we might have a new Directory-Gospel: [Page 289]But this you know was called an horrid Blasphemy—

Pray do not you tell stories too?

Mine is no old wives tale like his, but to be seen in Print, in a Book A fresh Discovery of some new wand­ring blasing starrs &c. 1646. Sect. 5. where you may find more such scoffing Prayers, from the men of the New light, whom Philag: is resolved to defend.

I pray God deliver us from their darkness.

Shut your windows then against them. And pray withal that God would send Philag. more wit or more Modesty, that he may not trouble the world with such wretched Prefaces and Books any more. As for the advantage which you fancy the Papists may make of what I have said, it is not to be considered in com­pare with that which they make of your Schism, and your loud clamours for more liberty then the Laws allow. We did sweare, said M^r. Rutherford Sermen 25. June 1645. at the Abbey p. 6.the extir­ [...]ation of Popery &c. now we preach, pro­fess and print that liberty is to be given for the Consciences of men, and how can this [...]e denyed to Papists. This design of Liberty, which you have in your heads, is that white Devil, that noon day Devil (if you will believe M^r. Edwards Antapo­log: p: 56.) which coming under the merit of much suffering, and [Page 290]well deserving clad in the white Garments of innocence and holiness, is like to do the more hurt. And it was the opinion I find of an old D^r. in Cambridg long be­fore you or I was born, that if ever Popery come into this land again to have any po­wer, it would be by the means of such Precisians as you.

Why do you call any body by that name?

Let D^r. Feately tell you, an Au­thor whom Philag. quotes very often, Our refined reformers, saith he, A Con­secration Sermon March. 23 1622. (as they would be thought) according to their name of Precisians pare the nailes of pre­tended Romish rites in our Church so near, that they make her fingers bleed. For [...] of monuments of Idolatry, all ornaments of the Church must be taken away. For fe [...] of praying for the dead, they will allow [...] prayer to be said for the living at the burial of the dead. For fear of bread Worship, they will not kneel at the Communion of Christs body and blood. But how fairly you have contributed, more than any body else, to bring that which you fear upon us, by disturbing the Govern­ment of Church and state, and still con­tinuing a lamentable separation from us, there is none now among us, of any [Page 291]understanding, but easily discern: For he is blind indeed, that cannot see through the holes of a Sieve. It is possi­ble you may remember also, who that Gentleman was that told the City of London when he was upon the Scaffold, ‘that it was part of his prayer to Al­mighty God, that the tumultuous people of this Nation might not be like those Pharisees and their followers who pretending a fear of the Romans co­ming and taking away their place and Nation (when there was no cause for it, but they only made use of that sug­gestion to further their mischeivous design of murdering the innocent) had at last the Romans brought upon them indeed and were utterly ruined by them.’ Truly the factious and tumul­tuous people of this Nation, saith my Au­thor, Eaglan [...] Complaint An. 1648. have in all other things the most resembled the Pharisees that ever any people did: God in his mercy grant that they do not also resemble them in this.

There is no fear of that, I warrant you.

A great deal the more, because you are not sensible of the danger. For as if it were a small matter to make such a wide breach in our Church, you seek, [Page 292]to make it wider, by advancing your selves above all other men, disparaging us and our Ministers, and loading them with reproaches, as if they were not worthy to be named together with you. Which forces us to say that of you, which otherways should never have come out of our mouths: though alas! it could not have been hid, you proclaim it so loudly your selves. This very Ad­vocate of yours hath given such a Chara­cter of you in his Book, as may satisfy all wise and sober men, what you are; though we should hold our peace. For he hath one faculty, you must know, wherein he surpasses most other writers, and that is, after he hath made a long discourse to prove a thing, at last to o­verthrow it all. Or to speake in his own phrase, he is such a Cow as having given a great deal of Milk, throws it all down with her foot. For after all the evil he had said of me, in conclusion, as I showed you, he acknowledges so much goodness in me as is inconsistent with his accusations. And in like manner after all the praises he had bestowed on the N. C. for their piety, sincerity, modesty, patience and such like things, in the end he grants the worst things that I charged [Page 293]them with all, and makes them as bad as bad can be. Though you may be sure it was not his design, only truth would out when he did not observe it.

You should not study revenge, by taking notice of the motes that are in the eye of his discourse, because he did so by yours Sober Answ. p. 11..

If I sought for motes I could find a great one in that very phrase. These are logs which I am going to speak of, that a man may see with half an eye. First he confesses that they are self conceited, impa­tient of contradiction, wedded to their own opinion; such as will rule even their Mi­nisters, if not despise and abandon them, unless they please their humor: Else why should they so easily run away from them, nay spew them out of their mouth, They are his own words. p. 228. and see p. 223. if they perswade them earnestly to that which they think in their conscience is their Duty. They are so currish also and hard hearted, that they will give such a Minister a Bill of Divorce, and he may starve if he will, for any thing that they will do for him His own words p. 229.. But the reason is, that they are in a rage, in a violent fermenta­tion and boiling against our Church; and therefore must not be medled withall but let alone, for fear, as he tells you, [Page 294]of making them stark mad, which it is thought would be the effect of an attempt to reduce them to that which I call sobriety pag. 227.. So uncapable they are of good instru­ction, that they speak evil of our Bi­shops and others with open mouth, being the Authors or abetters of false and scan­dalous stories concerning them, and yet cannot be perswaded that they have done it sufficiently, or that they can open their mouths too wide in this case.

A horrid slander.

Say you so? I will read his very words then to you that you may be con­vinced though others will not. Neither must they pag. 228. (i. e. your Ministers) presume to keep a Day of Humiliation for the sin you there mention p. 235. viz speaking evil of Bishops &c. though either to raise or take up a false report against any man, especially if in Authority, is a great sin: yet to keep a day of Humiliation among the people, upon such an account as that (who will not be convinced that they can open their mouths too wide in that case) were im­mediately to divorce themselves from them,☞or to cause the people to give them a Bill of Divorcement, and to be married to some worse Husband—

I am astonisht at his negligent writing: I shall not be angry hereafter if you call him a shatter'd-brain Scri­bler.—

Who not only confesses that you cannot be convinced that you can bawl too loudly, though falsely and scanda­lously against our Governours; but that the hearts of your people are alienated from us, and have an antipathy against us, as he tells you in the next page. And that some of them hate our Worship worse than a Toad, as he assures us upon his own knowledg pag. 224. Canepejus. & angue: and are so un­grateful withal to our Sovereign, that they will not so much as wish for the peace and prosperity of their Native Country, unless they can enjoy such quiet as they desire.

There is no such thing sure in his Book.

No! read then what he saith in another place. p. 221, 222. Where he tells us we must not expect that you should be perswaded to seek our peace by such easy means as I directed you to, for men cannot easily so much deny them­selves as to promote the interest of those by whom they have been ruined and are ruin­ing all the day long. If you urge that text saith he, seek the peace of that City whe­ther [Page 296]I have caused you to be carried captive and pray to the Lord for it: some are rea­dy to reply (how many who knows?) Yea, and so we will seek your peace and pre­sperity, when you make good what is there added, for in the peace thereof yee shall have peace. They will condition, you see, with his Majesty, or else he must not have the benefit of their prayers for the tranquillity and happiness of his Realmes.

Would He had held his peace, and never undertaken our cause.

There is a plain reason, he tells you, for this surliness. They are grons high and proud; they swell with grief, anger and vexation, pag. 281. because they can­not have their will, or as he calls it, are trod and trampled upon. And though they are, it seemes, so low, yet their spirits are so high, and so far from humble and silent patience, that they have cla­moured both upon King and Parliament [...] and down the Nation, for the undoing of many families, So he tells us. p. 236. which tells you what excellent Christians they are; for that word clamour (as one Mr. Ful­lers Vin­dic. of his Sermon. 1643. told M^r. Salt­marsh) sounds in a bad sense in the Holy Scriptures, as arguing an ill tempered spirit, with amixture of Pride and im­patience; [Page 297]for which he cites 9. Prov. 13.4. Ephes. 31. But some of them are gone higher, and have a rebellious princi­ple in them, as he confesses, if what I said be true, Sober Answer, p. 105. as I am sure it is. And yet for all that there are no such people as they, the power of Godliness is their peculiar portion: thus far this man him­self is possessed with those proud fancies, that he thinks, from what I have said a­gainst them, it will be inforc'd that all that which is called Religion is meer Hypocri­sie and imposture,Preface, p. 22. 23.Lastly, as for lying and speaking falsly, you shall not easily meet with a greater example of it than in himself. And if one of your guides be so addicted ro this vice, that he blu­shes not to put them in Print, when he may be so soon confuted, what a num­ber of lyes, in all probability, are there whispered in corners by your common people.

You should say they are mi­stakes, and no more.

I would willingly have called them all by no worse name than falshoods, but upon serious consideration of all things, I cannot but conclude that, too often, there was something of his will in it, and that he had a mind to calum­niate. [Page 298]And for our more orderly pro­ceeding, this being you know, part of my Charge against him, I will first set before you some of the lyes and falshoods in his preface, and then some of those that are in his Book. For the former, there is no truth in those words you meet withal, p. 3. that I call some men all to naught; nor did I say so much as this, which he confidently affirms, that W. B. is the greatest Impostor that ever I knew in the Christian Religion. My words are. He is one of the principal Impostors that per­verted the truth and a lul­terated, &c. Contin, p. 108. These are forgeries of his own, like that which follows p. 8. You bring in the N. C. saying, the King is a Tyrant. But what will not he be bold to invent, who dare tell you (p. 10.) that I knockt so hard (not only upon the Act of Indemnity, which I have show'd you is notoriously false) but upon all overtures for peace and accommodation, that he was not able to lye still; when part of my business was to show the way to it, and when it was fit for you to expect the favour you desire? If we say not what pleases him, it seems we had better hold our peace. If he like not our propositions he will make no bones to say we offer nothing; nay, are against all peace and accomodation with them. They must have their own way; and be [Page 299]set at Liberty (as he tells us) before they will try to make us and you friends; and then it is but upon condition neither; if we will refer it to them, and be bound to stand to their award. They are his own words, p. 220. 221. Such another ugly lye is that which immediately comes after this, that I reflect obliquely upon most eminent persons, and insinuate that they never deserve to be loved or tru­sted more, notwithstanding his Majesties confidence in them. This he found in the same place where he met with all those Stratagems and Maximes he tells you of in the following pages; as that I would put down Religious conference, and bring men out of conceit with experiences, and have spiritual preaching laught out of Countenance; P. 16, 17. of the Pre­face. and that I have used my wit to abuse earnestness in Prayer, preach­ing of the love of Jesus Christ, and using of Scripture language Page 31. Ib. with a number of other such like things, which are such gross lyes that they cannot be forced from my words by doing violence to them and putting them upon the Rack. For I told you in plain termes what expe­riences the Apostle commands; and when Religious conference is profitable to our selves and others, and what it is to preach spiritually, &c. which I do not [Page 300]mean to repeat over again for his con­viction. In stead of that, I will recom­mend to his consideration one Stratagem, which he doth not think of; though he is very expert in it, and though it be a Stratagem of Satan, who as Acontius might have inform'd him, in a Book bearing that Title; S [...]ns Stra [...]a­g [...]es. Book 2. p. 50.52 tran­slated, 1648. prompts men to cavil at one anothers words in their dis­putes; whereby opposition is made not so much against what is affirmed, as against what the opposer hath by a false Interpre­tation feigned to himself, which kind of practice, tends to nothing, saith he, but to provoke the Adversary, and to make a mans self ridiculous; by opening a Win­dow to himself whereout to cast a thousand follies, not a jot to the matter in hand. Yet some men, as he adds, are exceeding­ly conceited of themselves, if misinterpre­ting their Adversaries words, they can infer some great absurdity there from. Howbeit, this custom ought to be left to vain Sophisters: who, as another excel­lent writer observes; Mouns. Balzac. can make use of true propositions to infer an erroneous conclusion, and like petti-foggers, still cite the Law, to Authorise their inju­stice. Such a Caviller is this Philaga­thus, between whose Maximes, Apho­risms, [Page 301]&c. and my propositions, there is as wide a difference, as we find oft­times between the Text and the Com­mentaries, the meaning of the Author, and the Criticismes of Grammarians, So he will confess himself, if he will but take the counsel of Acontius, and forsaking the Devil, with all his Works, report what I say, without addition, di­minution, or alteration. I can warrant only my own words which are sound and innocent, as the other writer speaks in the like case, not those of my Adversa­ry which are full of malice and rancor. For what I have written I am responsi­ble, and am ready to maintain it: but all the Visions and fancies that come in­to other mens heads, are not in my power, nor am I accountable for them. If Philag. will say, that I affirm one of W. B. Sermons is not so good as a Play Preface p. 20.&c. what remedy is there? who can de­fend themselves from being abused by such squint-ey'd Readers? I cannot make my words plainer than they are, which were only these, that the Sermon about the Cupboard of Plate, and Gods depar­ting from us, &c. hath more of fiction in it, than many of the Playes. Friend [...] Debate. 190. What ever other words I should go about to [Page 302]place in the room of them, he may as well deprave as he hath done these, and many other throughout his whole Book; making them depose such things as were never in my thoughts. But now we have to do with the Preface, in which there are so many falsities of this Nature, that if I could find the like in my Book, I should think (as Dr. Corn. Burges saith in another case Anti­dote a­gainst Anti­Sobrius, p. 31.1660.) that it deserved the reward of the Hangman; and I would either burn it my self, or hire him to d [...] it for me. It would tire you to hear them all, and therefore I will only add that notorious one which you find in the first of those Stratagems of Satan, which he hath invented, to cast that blame on us, which justly lyes upon themselves. It is this, that we have brought all the practical Di­vines, such as Scudder, Culverwell, Rogers, &c. quite out of Request, that now adays there is no enquiring after those kind of Books. Presace. p. 12.

He only tells you that a grave Book-seller told him not long since that the Rational Divines (as some would have them called) had brought all our practical Divines, &c. —

Take heed you do not falsify too: [Page 303]He hath made this lye his own, in these words which follow, Ib. page 13. Sure I am, the wri­tings which you have taught the World to set at naught, have been as great Seminaries and nurseries of Religion, as most in the World.

Is it not too true?

There cannot well be a more im­pudent falshood. For it was the canting of some among your selves which first struck those Books out of your peoples hands, and destroyed those great Nu [...]se­ries which he speaks of. They made them believe there was a greater Gospel-Light now broken forth, than had been since the Apostles times; that they brought them more glorious Discoveries of the love of God, and held forth free grace more clearly and fully; and that there was both a freer streaming of Christ's Blood to poor sinners laid open, and a more plentiful powring out of the Spirit in these latter dayes, than our Fore-Fathers had seen: In short, that there was more of Law and of Mount Sinai, in those old Preachers, and now more of Gospel, and Mount Sion in them­selves. This was one of those things which turned their eyes from Authors now named, to look for some greater [Page 304]thing which these new Teachers had to reveal to them.

I must confess I have heard some of our own Divines complain of this. But I doubt you have helpt to make the people reject those Authors as weak and frivolous, and to listen to what new Rational Doctrine your selves are about to bring: as he tells you, p. 13.

He talks idly: and spitefully op­poses his own imaginations to the plain and manifest truth. They were laid a­side and other Books come in their stead; before those whom he strikes at, begun either to preach or write. And some of those very Ministers of yours who com­plained of the New lights and Discove­ries have contributed to it not a little, by affecting of new words and fine phrases, and devising Sauces for that food which those old Divines delivered in a plainet and more simple manner. These many people began even then to long for, when Mr. Rogers his Book was writ; as we may learn from one that prefaces to it. Mr. Fr. Merbury there tells us that some professors in those dayes liked none but such conceited Cooks as this Philagd­thus, who commends so heartily, T. VV. Sances, and tells us an Anchove or two [Page 305]gives the gravy a fine relish; and rather then fail can be content with Carriers Sance, an Onion, to get a man a better stomack to his meat. All these are his words. p. 50. But he himself did not like them; as he tells us in these words; the rest of the professors, which [...]e like wanton children and begin to play with their meat and brook nothing but con­ceited writing and speaking, are to be be­wailed. And therefore he desires the good Readers in the conclusion of that Epistle, to receive Mr. Roger's provision made for them of wholesome meat, not caring for conceited Cookery, but re­memtring that hunger is the best sauce for beavenly food. This is a plain demonstra­tion to me, that this buisy Informer and Reproover hath not been conversant himself in those Writers which he so much commends, but is one of those who hath laid them aside, though he be no Rational Divine, I dare say for him. At least he is never the better for them, being one of those that writes not ele­gantly but conceitedly (if ever any man did) and that labours hard in this phan­tastick trade of Cookery, which those grave Writers did so solemnly condemn. Witness the bread and butter I told you of before, the hot broth of reproof which [Page 306]he talks of p. 123. The Beef and Bacon, the Rabbets and Chickens which he fetches in, to make a savory Mess of W. Bs. bowl of Pottage: pag. 264. and 265. and the conceited jest which he makes a shift to strain at last out of a Galimaufry of Latine and English compounded together: for which he would be soundly firkt if he were I know where, and at every lash be told in his own language that he had both jus in re, and jus ad rem too, far more then any boy in the School.

Did not you bring in your Cheese too in the Epistle to your Rea­der?

And I take it neither for an out­stretched Allegory Like his discourse of this matter; which takes up 3. pages l. p. 264. &c. (as he would have it) nor an unhandsome resemblance. Others I am sure, who are no bad judges think it as far from conceited, as they think him from being witty.

You must consider the matters about which he write, are not very grave, and so it may be pardonable if he be a little phantastical.

No? I thought all this while he had been defending the use of these Sauces in T. W's. Book of Repentance and such like; that have taken the place of those better writers. Which are the less [Page 307]acceptable to many of you for another reason that he thinks not of, being, I have cause to think, but little acquainted with them.

What should that be?

They resolutely maintain the law­fulness and usefulness of a Form of pray­er, which now is so much despised, if not abhorred: and withal approve of the publique service of our Church, and commend some other things which are now neglected.

Can you prove what you say?

I tell you nothing but what my eyes have read. M^r. Rich. Rogers, for in­stance, whom (p. 13.) he sets in the first place, in his seven Treatises Com­mended by Mr. Cul­verwel, one of the Au­thors Phi­lag. prai­ses. dedi­cated to King James in the beginning of his raign, tells you, Treat. 3. chap. 4. that the Publique Prayers solemnly offered to God in the con­gregation, and praysing God with Psalmes, ‘is one of the publique helps to Godli­ness to be used by every Christian. In the which, saith he, if that mind be in us with the which we have been taught to come to all holy exercises, and so be prepared for them, who doubts but that we may receive much help by them? Yea, ☜ and the better a man is the more he shall profit by them. [Page 308]And when a man doth not profit, it is partly of Ignorance partly from a prejudicate opinion and rash zeal, which makes men give themselves to slight and negligent hearing of and at­tending to them. And then having answered the objection of those who said the Ministers in some places were ignorant and unreformed (Sots and idle drones in philag language. p. 284.) and resolved that notwithstanding we ought to joyn with them in prayers:’ He proceeds to satisfy those that said a Minister should use no set form of Prayer, but as he is moved by Gods spirit. To such he saith, It is a fond error so to think —

I know many would not like those words.

I told you so: but hear his reason. ‘For as there be necessary things to be prayed for of all men and alway, and those are the most things which we are to pray for; So there may be pre­script forms of prayer made concem­ing all such things. Which being so, what letteth that in the Reading of such prayers, either of confession of sin, request or thanksgiving, what letteth (I say) that the hearers heart may not [Page 309]profitably go with the same, both to humble to quicken and to comfort? For is the reading it self unpure, when the Minister in his own behalf and the peoples uttereth them to God? I speak not, you see, of the matter of prayer, but of reading it: for if the matter be naught, the pronouncing of it makes it not good any more then reading doth; if it be good and pure being uttered and pronounced, the reading cannot hurt it, or make it evil. And fur­ther to satisfy them, they may know that in all Churches and the best Re­formed there is a prescript form of prayer used, and therefore they who are of a mind that it ought not to be, must separate themselves from all Churches. And then he concludes with a perswa­sion to all good Christians, to lay aside contention and endless and (many of them also) needless Questions about this matter: And seeing it must of all who are well advised be granted, that the publique prayers are helps to stir up Gods graces in us, and to convey to us the many good blessings of God which we want: to look therefore to themselves every way so carefully that they may be fit to be helped and bene­fitted [Page 310]by them; and with the same well ordered hearts and minds to at­tend unto and apply to themselves the prayers, which either before and after Sermon are uttered, or the other which through the whole action of Gods worship are read in their hear­ing: and not to be led by opinion that they can take no profit by them.’

I see very well what kind of writer he is.

And you see he is not for the [...]oth of the men of these days: in which Philag. confesses, your Ministers dare not perswade the people in this manner; much less tell them that all who are well advised are sensible of the benefit that is to be received by the publike prayers read out of a Book. This one passage is enough I doubt not, to make such Books as these to be rejected, as well as their Admonitions.

I believe these very good men, and meant exceeding well —

But were weak and in a lower dis­pensation.

I dare not say so, but I think they would not please now.

No I warrant you: especially when they met with a form of prayer [Page 311]which this Author himself hath drawn up at the end of the fourth Treatise: Chap. 20. p. 537. &c. Edit. 5. 1630. In which among other things he teaches the people to acknowledge the great goodness of God in giving them to live under a most Christian and Religious Prince and King, defending and main­taining the Gospel against all Antichristian Malice and tyranny and other adversary powers, and the same truly and sincerely preached &c. These are words which do not sound well in many of your ears: they would be loath to joyn in this ac­knowledgment. For we are told by one that God hath ecclipsed the light of the Sanctuary: T. W. Godlymans picture p. 114 By another that our Aarons too often make golden Calves: Rebuild. of London. p. 359. And by Philagathus that the Gospel is gone from many congregations in England and else where. Sober Answ. p. 284. And that the Goshens that were (when the N. C. were in them) are grown as dark as the land of Egypt pag. 285. and were it not for some reasons he tells you, he would not have spoken of it, but let it alone, till the cry thereof so came up to Heaven, as to cause the God of Heaven to say as in Gen. 18.11. con­cerning Sodom, I will go down and see if they have done altogether according to the cry of it which is come up unto me &c. p. 286. [Page 312]By which it should seem —

No glosses, good Sir., nor Inferences.

There needs none. We may plain­ly observe what judgments they expect to come upon us because of their re­moveal. We are in Egypt already (though the word of God be read every where) and must be made like Sodom and Gomorrah. I wish heartily that in stead of such acknowledgments as good M. Rogers taught the people to make, though many in those times were su­spended and deprived; they do not now clap petards, on heavens gates, that they may fly open and send down Fire and brimstone upon us.

Are you mad? what wild fire hath got into your head? Phil. called you a Crack; now he will call you a Cracker.

You are not well read, I perceive. ‘T. W. tells you that Prayer hath a power to destroy the Insolent Enemies of the Church. For the two VVit­nesses have a flame at their lips: Fire proceeds out of their mouth, which de­vours their Enemies, Rev. 11.5. and this Fire is certainly to be interpreted of their Prayers. Godly mans pic­ture, by Mr. Tho. Watson. p. 129. Now that you may [Page 313]better understand their power, he tells you that Prayer is a petard which will make Heavens Gate to flye open. Ib. p. 130.’

I cry you mercy, I did not expect to have found such expressions any where.

Not in Mr. Rogers, I warrant you, nor any of the Seminaries before named, who will never trouble you with such conceited language as this, nor tell you; that Prayer is a seed sown in Gods ears. Ib. p. 128.

Good now dismiss both him and Mr. Rogers, I have had enough of them.

Let me tell you first that this book of his was abridged by Mr. Egorton Anno. 1618. and put in Quest. and Answ. (who commended it in his Preface to Mr. Hen. Scudders daily Walk:) and called the practice of Christianity. A Book well know and much read when I was a Child; and hath an Epistle of Dr. Gouge before it, and at the conclu­sion certain Advertisements concerning Prayer. At the end of the seventh Book, chap. 11. pag. 691. Edit. 5. 1635. In which he declares that it is lawful and in some Cases expedient to use a set Form of Prayer. And there being in respect of place and company three sorts of Prayer; Publique in the Church, private in the Family, and se­cret by a mans self: he concludes that [Page 314]the greatest liberty may be taken in soli­tary Prayer, by a mans self; because we are sure, provided we be humble and upright, that God will not upbraid any man, for his Method, Order, Words or utterance. In private Prayer he thinks we may not take so great a Liberty as when alone: and justly fears that some well affected people have been somewhat faulty and offensive in this; the weaker sort being not so capable of that kind of Prayer which is called conceived or extemporall, va­rying every time in words, phrase, manner and order, though the matter and substance be the same. But as for the publique Congregation, special care, he tells you, must be had that nothing be done in praying, preaching or admi­nistring the Sacraments, but what is de­cent and orderly, because there many eyes do see us, and many ears hear us; and upon this account it is expedient for the most part to keep a constant Form both of matter and words, &c.

This was the Doctrine of the Divines of those dayes, though it be not reli­shed now by those, who reverence their Name more than their Books. Dr. Preston himself (another Name which [Page 315]this man vapours withal) declared his opinion about the lawfulness of set forms in the first Sermon Preach­ed before he was Chaplain, as Mr. Ball tells us in his Life, pub­lished by Mr. Clark p. 112. he preached before King James at Royston, upon 1 John 16. where he hath these remarkable words, which will be thought too scornful by many of you now. That a set Form of prayer is lawful much need not be said: the very newness of the contrary opinion is enough to show the Vanity and falshood of it. The truth of it is, it was so new, that there were few of those old Divines but they opposed it in their constant practice. This Dr. now named, Dr. Sibbs, Mr. Hildersham, Mr. Dod, Mr. Bradshaw, &c. alway using one Set Form of Prayer before their Sermons, (and some of them in their Families.) For which the last mentioned gave this reason, as Mr. Gataker tels us in his Life; Life of Mr. Wil. Bradshaw, published by Mr. Clark, p. 67. in Fol because he sitation in prayer is more offensive than in other discourse, unto profane ones especially; whereof in mixed multitudes and meetings some lightly, too many usually, are. And he affirmed this also to have been Mr. Th. Cartwrights practice with whom he sometimes conversed. And Mr. Clark I remember, confesses that Mr. Sam. Crook, who dyed no longer ago than 1649. was the first man who brought [Page 316]conceived prayer into use in those parts where he lived; in Somerset-shire. Collect of [...] o [...] [...] Di­vi [...], p. 38 [...] If you would see more of this you may read Dr. Prestons Book, called the Saints daily Exercise, [...]. 6. 1 31. p. [...]. set forth by Dr. Sibbs, and Mr. Davenport; where you will find this Question largely handled, whether we m [...]y [...]se set Forms of Prayer? and resolved assirmatively. For which he gives many reasons.

I'le seek them when I am at leisure.

Only remember this for the pre­sent, that he saith he knows no ob [...]ection of weight against it. How do you like this Doctrine now?

Is not the Spirit straitned in stinted Prayer? And doth not a man find his Spirit bounded and limited when he is tyed to a Form?

That's the main objection, he tells you; to which he gives three substanti­al Answers. The first is, that those very men who are against this and use this rea­son, do the same thing daily in the Con­gregation; for when another prays, that is a Set Form to him that hears it; who hath no liberty to run out though his Spi­rit should be more large; but is bound to keep his mind upon it. And therefore [Page 317]if that were a sufficient reason that a man might not use a set Form, because the Spirit is straitned, it would not be law­full to hear another pray (though it were a conceived Prayer) because in that case his Spirit is limited. Secondly, he tells you, though the Spirit be limi­ted at that time, yet he hath a liberty at other times to pray as freely as he will. It is no general ty, though he be then bound up. And Thirdly, he adds that there is no ty and restraint upon the Spirit, because there is a ty to words. For the largness of the heart stands not so much in the multitude and va­riety of Expressions, as in the extent of the affections; which have no ty upon them, when we are tyed in words.

Too many words will not do well in any other thing. Let us there­fore make an end of this.

I shall only tell you that if you turn a leaf or two further Saints daily Ex­ercise p. 84. you will find another case resolved about the gesture of Prayer; which he would have to be very reverend, especially in publique. And that Mr. Hildersham exhorts to kneeling as the fittest gesture: And complains of those that neglected it; as also of such as would not sit bare at the [Page 318]reading of the holy Scriptures: wishing withall that when we come in and go out of the Church we would give some sig­nification of such reverence as now is rather derided than approved. By all which you may see without travelling through the rest of the Authors which he mentions, that they will not down with your squeamish stomacks; and have been thrust out of doors by a number of frivolous writers among you, who can better humour the childish fancies, and the corrupt appetites of the professors of this Age. This very man is one of them, who jeers those old Puritans (as they were called) as well as us, when he compares a man that uses a Form of Prayer to an Horse in a Mill Page 97. of his Book.which goes round and round, and cannot easily go out of his way, if he do but jog on, though he be hood-winkt and blindfolded.

But Religion as he sayes, is like to suffer greatly by the not reading of those good writers.

Thats spoken only upon suppo­sition, that our Ministers have made them to be rejected; but if they have been the cause of it them­selves, he can tell you another story. Doubt not of it, he can find you Authors [Page 319]enough as good as they if not better, and as many as you please; twenty, or forty, or more. Say how many you would have, for it's all one to him whether it be twenty or forty Pag. 55, 56, 57. (one is as soon said as the other) and they shall be such Treatises, that there are not better ex­tant in the World of those Subjects.

Do you think he will write against himself?

That's a very small matter with one that minds not what he writes. In a twelve moneths time you may think it is easie for a man to forget what he hath writ; and so no wonder that he who told us in 1668. that some good Scholars were put to such hard shifts as to beg their bread, the Laws at that time be­ing too hard for them, and too strictly observed to let them get any sufficient employment for a livelihood, Rebuil­ding of London, p. 331. &c. should tell us now 1669. that the severe Ordinances signified next to nothing where he was conversant; and should ask to what purpose it is to mention them, as long as I tell of no Execution done by them. Sober Answ. p. 254, 255. But he can do a great deal more than this comes to: in an hours time or so, he can forget what he hath said, and say the contrary. In the 31. [Page 320]page of his Preface he tells you, that he hath endeavoured to restore me with a Spirit of meekness; notwithstanding that, but two leaves before (p. 26.) he had excused himself for not making a milder answer; flesh and blood being not able to bear some of my expressions. In his Book also, if you mark it, he desires you to believe he is far from being one of those who say (as if we were the Jews or Gentils he speaks of in another place) For what acquaintance should we perswade our people to joyn with you? Or how came we to ow you so much Ser­vice? Page 221. And yet he hath not writ many leaves before he tells us in plain termes, without excepting himself, that the N. C. Do think that they or some of them have been martyr'd by you or by your means and are killed all the day long; now they think it unreasonable upon that accouat (if upon no other) that they should also be Martyrs for you; that they should be re­pairers of your breaches, who have been the makers of theirs. Page 229. But there is nothing so pleasant as to see him who laughs at a Ratherism (as he calls it) which he brings in by head and shoulders, not knowing who it was that spoke those words, the plotting of Treason is dange­rous, [Page 321]rather than otherwise pag. 266. fall into a gross one himself and not know it. It is just with God to punish you with per­petual Barrenness, as he did Mical, But I would rather deprecate than wish it. So he pag. 27.; as if he had been at a stand They are his owne words in the other case.and at some uncertainty, whether he might not altogether or almost as well pray God to curse his neighbour, as desire he would not: and therefore brings in his opinion but with a modest rather, or in the way of Ratherism.

I had rather he had let both alone.

Come, leave off that idle toying with words, which he and his fellows are so guilty of.

And are not many among your selves in the same predicament? Doth not he tell you what ware he is able to farnish you with all of this kind? p. 51.

He may open his shop when he pleases: But it will be nothing to the parpose. For we do not call such by the name of powerful men as you do; nor do they pretend to such high illumina­tions, and to speak as men inspired; which makes toying and fooling far worse in your preachers than it can be many of ours.

He wishes that those whom you reprove would avoid speaking and writing of some things.

What they are is hard to tell, for he justifies all that I have noted, and imagines also that I have done my worst. Which I will not now demonstrate to be false, because if what he wishes be done, I protest I have my end. Which was not to abuse any man, much less to make Books of the follies I see in theirs; but only to give such light touches of them, that they and others, on all sides might write and speak after a better and more sober fashion. This which I tell you now in short, is the very bottom of my heart: if he will not believe it, he may chuse. Let him take his course, and force me, if he think good, to say that in our own defence, which I have no such mind, as he imagines, to meddle withal.

For my part, I have so little list to heare more of these matters, that I am inclined to bid you good night.

Stay a while. We have scarce lookt into the Body of his Book for those falshoods and lyes which are scattered there without number. But since you begin to grow weary, I will only note [Page 323]some of the most notorious. This for one, that [...] our Ministers app opriate and arrogate to themselves the name of Rational Divines; p. 16.17. Nay, intitle them­selves and their party to all the reason and learning in England. p. 143, and he is at it again p. 168. and other places. A pure calumny; and so ungrounded, that we have all the reason in the World (which is a great deale more) to say that he is a Lyar. For any man, till this new Logician took the chair, might pretend to speak better reason in some matters than another man, without being thought to ingross all the reason in the Country; or to have commenced D^r. in reason either.

You said you are Master of reason.

So is every body that hath any: and I believe he needed not to com­mence Master or Batchelor either, to have as much wit as he hath at this pre­sent.

Your Ministers he saith have worn those phrases thredbare, the reason of the thing, and the nature of the thing.

He will weare his credit so bare by writing on this fashion, that no man will take his word for a farthing. They affect no such phrases; as all know that [Page 324]heare them. Though it concerns us all, I must tell you, to look to our Reason, when we have been told by those that robb'd us of so many other things, that perhaps we shall find them plundring us of our Reason and unde standing Epistle to Flashes of Lightnings &c. 1648.: that is, imposing spiritual non sense upon us.

Pray enter not into that matter now.

If you have any reason left, you cannot but see how much he wrongs me when he tells you in round words that I deny a man can pray by the assistance of the spirit of God. p. 47. This is a rapper.

He explains himself afterward. p. 89.

What if his Readers never look so far into his Book? Then down goes this ly as glibly as that assertion of T. W. that the Platonists deny the immortality of the soul. The Lu­cianists & Platonists deny the immortali­ty of the Sonl. Morning Exerc. Me­thodized. 1660. pag. 615.

I understand none of their opi­nions.

There are no Philosophers that are so zealous for the immortality of souls as these whom he joynes with the Luci­anists, who derided all Philosophers what so ever, even Epicurus himself when the humour took them.

They are all alike to me, who have no acquaintance with them.

Nor are like to have if you trust such men as these; who venture to say any thing that you may think them learned, without any reason. To which Philag. is such an enemy (whatsoever he pretends) that when I only. mention many things which I have heard from our Minister which are not commonly preached on by yours, and plainly inti­mated that I could name more Friendly debate. p. 152. first Edition; which I desire the reader to consult, that he may see what this man is., he con­cludes boldly that I have quoted the things which our Minister doth mainly insist upon p. 139. and saith, this is the Body of his Divinity; the whole compasse by which he seemes to fail in the whole course of his Ministry. pag. 137. What cannot such a man do to uphold their cause who can [...] such a palpable ly as this? and when I speak expresly of growth in God­liness, and of things supperadded to what are vulgarly talkt of, and did not mention all neither, spends several pages to show how defective the body of our practical Divinity is. And what a case are those poor people in, who fol­low such guides as make no conscience of speaking truth themselves, or have not wit enough to apprehend it when it [Page 326]is plainly spoke by other men.

You are troubled I perceive at these things.

For nothing, I protest, but the naughty humour of such men as these. Otherways, it is a great confirmation of the strength of my Book, that he is fain to make lies his refuge, that he may make a show of a confutation. And as the blind, we say, swallow many a fly, so will you I doubt many a ly. For if you follow him to p. 144. He will tell you that the passages which I quote concerning their railing and bitterness against us are but few; when the con­trary is apparent. He himself within two pages pag. 146. takes notice of others besides those few which he here mentions. Nay he sinds one more then I named to that purpose; whom he calls one of the Mal­cas's. Who was not quoted for any speeches against those by whose decree he was cropt (who it seemes were Apo­stolical men, according to the state of this resemblance) but for bitter words against your selves. It is some thing strange that they being so few, if you believe him, whom I cited, he could not name them right. But I am fain, he saith, to look back as far as 1642. [Page 327]for some of them; and as far as 1621. for others [that is for one] which in­sinuates that I could not or did not cite many of later dayes. Both which are false; for I noted several passages out of M^r. Bridg, printed within these two years, wherein he plainly makes us An­tichristian, and the Prelates all one with the Beast —

Pray repeat them not, nor name any more.

Which I can as easily do, as show the loudness of thar ly, that we began with them first Against which Mart. Mare-prel. is a wit­ness. p. 146. and the naked­ness of that excuse for their tailing, from the general conflagration of Church Go­vernment, p. 145. As if that could be a provocation to them, when they had desired and contrived it themselves, and clapt their hands at the flames. Witness the great expressions of joy and glorying which we then heard, and his own ac­knowledgment, when he tells you, they were as firebrands newly pluckt out of the Fire pag 146.: which deliverance it seemes in stead of provoking their thanksgivings to God, inraged their spirits to throw about firebrands, arrows and death. These were very great Saints without all doubt; who deserved his Apology and may in [Page 328]good time come into the catalogue of Martyrs.

I believe he would only try what he could say for them —

Like a true Sophister; who I am afraid strained his Conscience a little to make excuses for that, which he knew was too black to be blanched; and there­fore I less wonder that he makes bold with it that he may be able to calum­niate me. Making you believe that I would perswade the people that there is no­thing of true Religion, in a sincere aptness and promptness to good discourse. p. 171. (a most horrid ly) And that they may be better imployed the mean time p. 172. Where he is at his old trade of curtail­ing my sentences; for I did not positi­vely say that they might be better study­ing other things, but only upon sup­posal that they did not understand what they said. Sec Friendly Deb. pag. 179. Which shows what an in­clination this man hath to falsify, and how vain he is in going about to make me contradict my self, and also how much nearer he is to madness, or some thing else, than he thinks me. For in fine be pronounces, that I say, Heaven­ly discourse may be spared or let ale [...]e p. 186. Such another forgery is that Pa [...] ­ciple [Page 329]which he saith seemes to be mine, that no man can love another but in the sight and upon the account of a reward. p. 192. Which is as true, as that I was the Aggressor and first set upon the N. C. pag. 290. and that my Books have been magnified as if they deserved to be bound up, if not with the Bible yet with the Liturgy? pag. 291.

Why? did not you fall upon them before they meddled with you?

No. I only vindicated and de­fended our Church and Ministers from the odious aspersions cast upon them by words and writings, as if they were An­tichristian, Babylonish, Apostatical, Superstitious, formal and without the power of Godliness —

You did more than so.

That is, in defending myself, who am a Member of this Church, and other men, I turned the charge upon you, and that is called an Assault. But it is very new reformed language: For I never heard that they who defended themselves, though they gave a wound to their Enemy, were accused of any crime. Surely, as the Scotch Gentle­man saith. Modest Conference. 1669. pag. 63. You who have been so much for desensive Armes, may at least allow us to defend our selves as well as [Page 330]we can with our Tongues and Pens.

I'le give you leave to do any thing, if you will but make an end.

You shall be troubled with no more upon this head, then these two things; the one about excommunication, the other about playes.

It's well you bring them to my mind, I thought to have askt you about those very things. He tells us of Lay-Thunders, and Lay-dispensers of Excom­munications, who are the nimblest at ca­sting abroad the Thunderbolts. p. 240.

He doth so: and deserves to be soundly ratled for that Calumny. There are no Lay-men who excommunicate any body, as he might have learnt, if he had been a careful Student, from a substantial Book. It is the Answer Printed at Oxford. 1603. pag. 21, 22. of the Vice-chancelour, and Doctors &c. of the University of Oxford, to the Pe­tition of certain Ministers desiring Re­formation, when King James came to the Crown. Among other Enormities in Discipline which they complained of this was one, that Excommunication came forth in the name of lay persons, Chan­cellors, Officials &c. To which the reply was, that suppose it true, yet the Chancellor, or Commissary is not a [Page 331]lay man in this case; the Ordinary and he are but one Judg: or rather whatso­ever he doth in this behalf, he doth it in the Authority of the Ordinary, ac­cording to the power committed to him. A thing not unusual in the civil state wherein the Lord Chancellor doth dis­pose of many things which are original­ly in the King &c. But secondly, no lay Chancellor or Commissary what soever doth at any time excommunicate any man, or sends out in his own name any excommunication. For this is the practise of the Church of England, in the censuring of notorious and more grievous crimes, the Arch-Bishop, the Bp. the Dean, the Arch-Deacon, or a Prebendary that is a Priest pronounceth the Sentence in his own Person. And in matters of less offence, as contuma­cy in not appearing or the like, the Vicar General, Official, or Commissary that is not in Holy Orders holds this course. First upon knowledg and exa­mination of the cause he adjudges the p [...]rty worthy to be excommunicated. Then the Minister (associated to him by express authority from the Ordinary) doth pronounce the Sentence of excom­munication against him. Lastly the [Page 332]Chancellour sends to the Pastor of the Parish where that party dwells, requi­ring him publiquely to declare the said party to be a person excommunicated by the Sentence of the Minister his asso­ciate. And all this according to the form of the Articles set forth by her Majesty. 1597.

I am satisfyed, there are no Lay-thunderers. But me thinks they should not meddle at all in this matter.

You reprove that in others which you allow in your selves, who if you could have had your wills, would have brought in a great many lay persons that should have had a hand in excommuni­cation. And as for the slender Offences which this man talks of, we know well enough what they are; no less than contumacy and contempt: concerning which read what the Scottish discipline saith in the Order of excommunication. Printed 1571. Chap: 4. The words are these, thus any small Of­fence may justly deserve excommunication, by reason of the contempt and disobedience of the Offender. But this is not all that I have to say to this man: He receives reports against some of the Elders of the Church, when he confesses he can charge none of them particularly, and [Page 333]thereupon accuses them, for passing that direful Sentence so suddenly, as that they say, I admonish thee, I ad­monish thee, I excommunicate thee, all in a Breath. A most foul calumny; of which I may say as Bishop Hall to Ro­binson and his faction, having separated from us, you devise slanders to colour your sin. We must be shameful that you may be innocent. Apol. a­gainst the Brownists sect. 33. Some Heathens would not have done thus: for Papinian a famous Lawyer chose rather to dy (as S^t. J. Heywood observes Life of Edw. the sixth. p. 84.) than defend the murder which the Emperour Carda­calla had done upon his Brother Geta; but some Divines are still found who destain their profession and the good Arts they have learnt, not only by de­fending factions, but by publishing odi­ous untruths upon report and credit of others only. And yet, if this were true, it is a thing which they of the separation have alledged against one another as much as they did against us. For Geo. Johnson told his fellow Separatists at Amsterdam, that they had excommuni­cation as ready, as a Bishop hath a prison. Bishop Hall Ib. sect. 51. To which you may add that no excom­munication can be more suddenly and rashly pronounced, than many of you [Page 334]have excommunicated your selves from our publike Prayers and the supper of the Lord. So your predecessors were wont to speak of the Separation in which you now are. Divers say they, Letter of many Mi­nisters in old Eng­land to those of new 1637. have left our Assemblys because of a stinted Liturgy and excommunicated themselves from the supper of the Lord, and having turned aside themselves, labour to ensnare others: and how headily and suddenly many did this, is so well known that we need not stand to debate it now.

No. Now I pray you give me leave to play.

I hope you are not yet tired, be­cause you are so jocular; I was going to tell you, that he accuses me, with the same face that he hath said all the rest, as an Advocate for playes, pag. 180. when I only undertook to justify some, whom you falsely call ungodly, merely upon the score of going to a play: And he would make you believe that I plead for them, and sayes, we need not wish for playes; pag. 182. 184. when I say in express words, our Mi­nisters do allow them, to go to a play and in due measure; Incourage them to it they do not &c. Friendly Deb. pag. 182. What think you? Is there any shame left in this man —

He tells you, if it be ordinary [Page 335]in publike playes to introduce obscene [...] prophane passages, he is an Enemy to them so far forth.

What need he tell me that, which I had told him before? Friendly Deb. pag. 192. Have we no­thing to do, but to say the same thing over and over again? Or can he say it better? If he can, let us hear it.

In these dayes men are apt to take too much liberty, and so if you give them leave to go to any, they will go perhaps to all.

That's better said, then any thing I find in him: but there is an Answer ready in a Divine Dr. Fea­tely's pre­face to Mr. Garakers defence of his Book of Lots a­gainst Al [...], [...]. that he hath men­tioned, if you do but apply what he hath discreetly said in the case of lusorie lots, to this of Playes. ‘Albeit, saith he, we are all apt to take too much hold of any point of liberty reached unto us out of Gods word; yet Gods truth must not be suppressed because of mens Errors, neither is it a safe way to go about to cure an error in practise, by another errour in judgment: I mean to reform the abuse of playes by to­tally condemning the use it self of them. Though a Chirurgion mean never so well in letting his Patient blood, when he needs it much, yet [Page 336]if he strike not the right vein, he had better have spared his pains.’ The Lo [...] open the eyes of all that seek to serve him in sincerity and singleness of heart, that neither by inlarging their liberty, they open a gap to licentiousness, nor yet by too much restraining it, lay a snare on weak consciences.

A good prayer: but to acknow­ledg the lawfulness of going to them, opens a gap which they will make as wide as they please.

I cannot help that. But I no more make way to the abuse, by defending the use of them (as M^•. Gataker speaks in the other case) than some of the an­cient Fathers made way to the abuse of wine, when they defended against the Manichees, Tatianists and Encratites, that wine was Gods good Creature which men might lawfully drink: Or than so many of late Writers as defend the lawfulness of an Oath lawfully used against the Anahaptists that utterly con­demn all use of it, do thereby make way for the justification of that ordinary vain swearing which is as rife, nay far rifer then any abuse of playes. For they are mostly, if not only, in London, but the other all the Kingdom over.

But the abuse can hardly be separated from the use.

No? that's strange, why not as well as in drinking Wine? To me this seems far more the easier of the two. For men can have no more of a Play for their money, than the Actors have provided for them, but Wine they may have as long as their money lasts in their pockets, and longer too. And if there be any thing immodest or prophane in Playes, that may be easily remedied by the Ma­ster of the Revels, who, according to the Ancient constitution ought to see that nothing be spoken but what is fit to be heard. Many I am sure who stand in need of some recreation, and find them no vnfitting Antidotes against melancho­ly and other untoward passions, desire none but those which are cleanly, and do no violence to honesty. And they are not so dull but they conceive it possi­ble to reconcile pleasure with vertue, and that as there is a composed melan­choly and folly, so there may be a free and merry wisdom. You perhaps have not, but others have met with one, that tells them, there is an Art of using plea­sure innocently; which was professed anciently by Aristippus in Greece, who [Page 338]never did any thing undecent or unbe­coming, and yet was alwayes Merry. This Art, as the same person teaches them, was corrupted by Petronius and Tigellinus at Rome, who abused it as poysoners do Physick. And therefore as heretofore Magistrates were created ex­pressly to have a care of the pleasures of the people, and besides the Edicts of the Republick, there were under the Empe­rours a Tribune for pleasures; so they heartily desire it may be again. They would have none publiquely allowed, but what passes the severest judgment of Wise and sober men: and would be glad to see such a Science and Discipline of pleasure, as that Gentleman saies be hath seen in the Formularies of Cassiode­rus. They conclude, as he doth, that it is not just to accuse the purity of things for the intemperance of men; and that it is not credible the good things of this life were made only for the wicked.

But many intelligent men, who think Playes lawful enough, yet wish you had not medled with them.

Why so?

Because a running Horse they say needs no spurring; men run to them fast enough already.

There's nothing new in this. I do not spur any running Horse by my Book (as Mr. Gataker well answers in the like case) but endeavour only to un­gird some that have been girt in more than is meet; and to ease such as might be thereby not girt only, but galled too. It was meet in the Judgment of as intelli­gent persons as you mention, though not to invite men to them, which I have not done, yet to oppose your rigid opinion of the unlawfulness of them; because it invades a point of Christian liberty, and it is apt also to make you very censori­ous. If those two reasons be not able to justifie my prudence, I will not defend it with more words.

I think they have been gene­rally condemned.

By whom?

By Godly men.

What? as unlawful.

I cannot tell: they general­ly shake their heads at them.

That is, they dare not say they are unlawful, and yet will not say they are lawful. And so they keep poor peo­ple in bondage to perpetual Scruples, and leave a room for their own censorious­ness. The Lords and Commons I am [Page 340]sure had no opinion of their unlawfulness in the beginning of the late Wars.

How do you know?

By their Ordinance of the 2. of Sept. 1642. concerning Stage-Playes, which only saith; ‘that since publique sports do not well agree with publique calamities, nor publique Stage-playes with seasons of humiliation; it is there­fore thought fit and ordained that while Ireland continues in so distressed, and England in so distracted estate, and set times of humiliation are also continued for these sad causes, publique Stage­playes should cease and be forborn.’ And though it appear they were not in­tirely obeyed; yet in their Ordinance of the 20. of Octob. 1645. wherein they give rules and Directions concerning suspension from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, they decree no more than this (about such matters) in they point of scandal, ‘that no person who uses any Dancing, Playing at Dice or Cards, or any other Game, or makes, or re­sorts unto Playes, interludes, fencing, &c. upon the Lords Day, shall be ad­mitted to it.’ But there is not a word of the exclusion of those who use these [...]creations on other dayes.

Sure they did something more for the prohibiting of Playes.

I am not ignorant of it, They put down all Playes in London, VVest­minster, Middlesex and Surry, by an Ordinance of 22 Octob. 1647. and ano­ther of 16 of Febr. following, and set a penalty on those that Acted or went to them. And yet for all this, the Ordi­nance for the setling of the Form of Church Government to be used in Eng­land and Ireland, which came after these; Aug. 29. 1648. Die Mar­tis. p. 31. doth not shut out such persons from the holy Communion, unless they make or resort unto them on the Lords Day, as afore-said; and then they re­ject those who use Hawking, Hunting, Coursing or Fishing, as much as these.

However many wish you had been affected in writing as you say you are in practice, that is, not to have med­led with them.

They must let me have my wish too; that they would well consider what my reasons were, which I have now told you.

You have one pittiful reason wherewith you plead the lawfulness of Playes, the sum whereof is this; that to see a Play is not so sinful or not worse than [Page 342]to spend the time in hearing long stories of the Bishops, or such and such a Parson or Neighbour (as you say, p. 187.) there­fore it is lawful. A most wretched Ar­gument; as if you should prove that theft is good and lawful, because Adultery is as bad, or worse than that. Are you a Ma­ster of Reason and bring so weak an Argu­ment as this? Theseare his words, p. 184, 185.

I have so much reason as to make you sensible that either he doth not un­derstand common sense, or else is so malicious as to disgrace good Sense (af­ter his pittiful fashion) among those who examine nothing, but believe as o­thers inform them.

How so?

Do I grant or suppose that it is sinful to see a play? Is not the very drift of my discourse quite contrary, to justi­fie those who go to them, if they be o­therwise blameless? Doth not he him­self say as much, when he calls me an Advocate for Playes, and tells you I plead for them? What shall we make of such a pestilent corrupter of plain sense —

I did not think of this; else I should not have mentioned it.

Nor he, either of this or of any [Page 343]thing else that I said, but clatters out of the hollow cabinet of his cheek (as the Bi­shop of Galloway some where speaks Answer to Tripar­tite, Apol. p. 171.) any thing that comes readiest into it, ne­ver going into himself as becomes a wise and modest man to advise with his own mind seriously before he utter any thing. For if he had, he would not but have instantly seen how inconsistent these two are, to make it lawful to go to playes and to suppose it sinful: which contradiction if he could have found in my Book, he needed not have troubled himself any further; for I had effectual­ly confuted my self. But if he had on­ly look't, half a minute upon those lines which he refers you to; Friendly Debate, p. 187. and be capable to understand a discourse; he would have seen that I did not compare one bad thing with another, but an innocent thing with that which is notoriously bad. Only I said (after the fashion of those who speak modestly) Why should they not be thought to spend their time as well as you that can hear long stories of the Bishops, &c. when I might have said, they spend it a great deal better, or there is no com­pare between them. And yet he hath the impudence to declaim on this Argu­ment, and to tell you what Epithets he [Page 344]could bestow on it; and at last to con­clude triumphantly, that he hath convin­ced As you may see p. 186. me of the fallac [...]o [...]sness of this reason, which he himself composed. You may think it too sharp, but I know one that bestowed such another censure on him, as Balzac did upon such another Scribler; after a tedious peru­sal of whose Book he concluded thus, My Grammar cannot find construction in it, nor my Logick common sense. When you have perused and considered this and several other passages, do you judge how much is fit to be abated of the ri­gour of this Sentence?

I have something else to do. Pray let me ask you one Question which you find in him (and he speaks much of it Pag. 181, 182, 183.) why do you allow that to others in Print, which you deny to others in pra­ctice? Why do you not go your self, if it be so lawful? —

I would ask him a Question too, but that I think it vain to demand a rea­son of him that hath it not.

What is that?

Nay, it is a very easie one, and needs no long study to make an answer to it.

What is it then?

Why did he not read my Book [Page 345]better? must we write a new Book for e­very particular man that will not be at the pains to mind what we have writ al­ready: but only Question's and Catechi­ses us about those points which every child can resolve from what hath been already declared? I told you there were some per­sons who were above them and could en­tertain themselves with better pleasures to their liking. Friendly Debate, p. 184. and others who did not think this pleasure so expedient for them in their place and Relation. Why could not he have supposed me at least among the latter sort, without asking any Questions? or since it is a thing in­different whether a man go or not, why should I be bound to give him a reason why I do not use them?

But may not the reason be, because you think them to be generally prophane or obscene? He suspects, they would hardly take with a great many peo­ple, though they were never so ingenious, if there were not some such evil mix­ture in them.

He hath an il-natur'd imagination. I do not think the generality of those that frequent them, would have them stain'd, either with those or any other such qualities. However, the persons [Page 346]whom I pleaded for abhor such things as much as any of you can do: and some Playes they abhor a great deal more.

I do not believe it: the bet­ter sort of us abhor all.

Stay there. Philagathus himself can be present at a breaking up, and there see an innocent modest Comedy Acted by young Schollars: Pag. 179. which, either out of love of Tautologie, or least you should not believe it, he tells you over again in his long-winded Preface. But I can tell you of a Play that, when time was, you could all be contented to read and see Acted too: though more dangerous a great deal than this Childrens sport. It is called Englands Tragedy, Acted by four living creatures and two killing Beasts. I find not the year mea­tioned; but appears by the mat­ter to have been w [...]it­about 1642. being upon occasion of the [...]om­mission of Array. The four living creatures, 4. Rev. 6. were the Militant Church warring for the Lamb; that is, your own dear selves. For the two killing Beasts 13. Rev. 1, 11. he tells you were the malig­nant party warring for Antichrist: the Servants of a strange God, and Rebels a­gainst Israel, as another presently after stiled them. Late Co­venant as­sorted, 1643. p. 14. The Prologue of this Tragedy began with Honorius and Ar­cadius; the Acts and Scenes are most of them past, and now, saith he, it is come [Page 347]to its Epilogue, and the Witnesses are rea­dy to draw the Stage. Be with them therefore; Act your part, knowing that God is not far off to make Satans Syna­gogue bow down at the feet of the true Church. By which it appears that some of you could be content not only to read and see this horrid Tragedy, but to be Actors in it: perswading your selves you saw the witnesses rising again and the Saints sitting in the Throne. So we were told the next year, that they who took the Oxford-Covenant, had entred in Co­venant with the Devil, to serve him, to work and stand up for him, to do as be doth, open his mouth in blasphemy against God, his Name, his Taberna­de, and them that dwell in Heaven Ib. pag. 9. i. e. these Reformers taken up from the Stage, to the high places of Power. There they sat deriding us on Earth; and this man, for his part, said he, would laugh in spite of the Devil. Ib. p. 10. And what was this ridiculous sight think you? I'le tell you: The Kings party were sworn by Covenant to endeavour the maintenance of Religion, and the Subjects Liberty. This and His Majesties most sacred protestation made a Comedy for him, when the Tragedy was ended; and the Devil himself (how [Page 348]should he, when the man dwe [...] in Hea­ven?) could not spoil the sport. By which I see you are not enemies to these recreations when the humour takes you; but would rather have all the mirth to your selves. For we must not so much as smile at all these follies, unless we can be content to be thought prophane; not venture without trembling to go and see a Play; for who can be secure Sober Answ. p. 180. saith Phil. of seeing and hearing no wickedness there?

That's a Question would be resolved.

It's as idle as all the rest. For ma­ny of those which are daily Acted are to be seen in Print.

Well! I never heard of any good, but of much hurt, that hath come by Playes.

There are many other things of which you may say the same, and yet they may be innocent. But I can tell you of some good.

What is that?

The old History of Fryer Francis being Acted by the then Earl of Sussex, his Players at Linn in Norfolk, wherein a Woman was presented, who doting upon a young Gentleman had (the more [Page 349]securely to enjoy his affection) secretly murdered her Husband, whose Ghost haunted her, and at divers times in her most solitary retirements stood before her; there was a Towns-woman till then of good repute, who finding her Consci­ence at this sight extreamly troubled, suddenly shreeked and cryed out, O my Husband, my Husband, I see the Ghost of my Husband fiercely threatning and menacing me. At which shrill unexpe­cted out-cry the people about her being amazed, they enquired the reason of it. When presently without any further ur­ging, she told them that not seven years ago, to be possessed of such a Gentle­man (whom she named) she had poy­soned her Husband, whose fearful Image personated it self (they are the words of my Author Mr. Tho. Heywood, the Actors Vindic. Book third.) in the shape of that Ghost. This she also voluntarily con­fessed before the Justices and was con­demned for it; of all which there were many eye-witnesses (besides the Actors) living a little before this was writ­ten. In King James his reign, as appears by the Book.

So! Conscience it seems hath been awakened at a Play. No wonder then you say one of W. B's Sermons is no better than a Play. Pag. 187.

I have left off now to wonder that he makes no Conscience of what he saith. This I have shown you is a for­gery of his own; which he hath further improved in his Preface into these lying words, which you heard before, One of his Sermons is not so good as a Play. Pag. 20. He hath a dispensation it should seem to write as he list; by which means he is able to confute any Book, even the Bi­ble it self. It is but changing the words, and leaving out some, or putting in others, according to his liking, and then they are for his purpose, to declaim against. Of this Legerdemain there are so many instances in his Book, that they alone are sufficient to make a Volumn, if I should go about to discover them all. If I say, it would not be amiss, that their folly were a little chastised, who fancy they are persecuted when they are not. Friendly Debate, p. 190. He shall tell you that I say, They who fancy themselves persecuted, ought to be chastised. P. 256. of his Answ. If I say you account him a painful Preacher Friendly Debate, p. 194. who preaches often; he shall say, that I make you confess, you call him a plain Preacher who prea­ches often: As if we were so silly, saith he, as to think that to preach plainly, and to preach often were the same [Page 351]thing. P. 267. of his Answ. Would not one think either that this man could not read, or read with other mens eyes, or else come to ill-disposed and with such naughty affe­ctions, that they disturbed his light? It is painful Preachers as clear as can be in my Book, and plain P [...]eachers as ma­nifestly in his. He is like those people in Lucian In his true Hist. Book first. that had eyes to take in and out as they pleased themselves, or when they had lost their own eyes, borrowed of other men. He sees nothing I mean but what he pleases; and like the most of you, can be satisfied to believe others, and not see for himself.

You have made hast to get to the end of his Book, I perceive not­withstanding your high charge he is not much to blame in such like matters.

These offered themselves most readily to my thoughts, but if you have a mind to go further back, with all my heart.

You shall not lead me through the whole Book, if the labour be so te­dious as you tell me.

I protest as Bishop Hall doth Postscript to the de­sence of the hum­ble Remon­strance. in another case, that I never saw any writer, that would dare to profess Christian sin­cerity, so fouly to overlash (and so shame­fully [Page 352]to corrupt and pervert anothers words) as he doth: as if he made no Conscience by what means he upholds a side, or wins a Proselyte. He would have you think, for instance, that I maintain, that the Gospel cherishes fear more than the Law, p. 41. when I only said that a Christian is moved by fear as well as hope, and that the things which the Gospel threatens us withal, are more terrible than the threatnings of the Law. This is the manifest scope of my dis­course: and I still maintain it to be true, that a man may be of an Evangelical Spirit who is moved to do his duty out of a fear of what Christ threatens, as much as out of a hope of what he promi­ses. Nay, I do not see but one may have an Evang. Spirit, who is moved more by such fear than he is by hope, though that was not the thing I under­took to make good. It was only this; that it is not a just Character of a Gos­pel-Spirit, that it is put on rather by pro­mises than threatnings. This I said, and still say, is false, which is not to affirm, as he would have it, that the Gospel cherishes fear more than hope, but that it cherishes them equally; or rather that one may be a good Christian who is mo­ved [Page 353]as much by the one as by the other. By this you see either how dull and stupid he is, or how maliciously disposed, who cannot understand so plain a discourse. And yet he would have you think he is so sagacious and hath so good a Nose that he can smell Pag. 42 I smell what you would be at, &c. my thoughts, even then when he mis-reports my words, you make, saith he, as if the Mosaical spirit did fear only temporal calamities upon Body and Goods, &c. That word only is his own, not mine, as you may see if you will compare our Books together, though I must tell you, all that he hath said to overthrow that position is of no more force than a small puff of wind; for they might, and I doubt not did, know under the Old Testament, that there was a life to come of misery and happiness, though it was not declared by Moses his Law. And so the meer Mosaical Legal Spirit (which we spoke of) may truly be said to fear only those calamities which were threatned by that carnal com­mandment. But he hath not done yet He makes you believe that I deny the Legal dispensation to be terrible and the Gospel comfortable, p. 44. which is a gross abuse; for my position was, that this is not the difference between the dispen­sations, [Page 354]that the one is terrible and the o­ther comfortable; because both are ter­rible; and knowing the terror of the Lord, the Apostles perswaded men. This he could not but see, and therefore to make work for himself, pulled my words asunder. And as he could not find in his heart to speak a word of the Im­pertinances I noted in VV. B. so he will needs undertake a defence of his words, when nothing is to be said, but what will make them worse. To trade in promises he tells you is a phrase good enough: but do what he can to trade, or to deal (which he puts in the room of it) in promises implies buying and selling, a traffique which quite over­throws his conceit of absolute promises. For we never heard of such Trades, that can have commodities brought home to them and left with them for no­thing, and without so much as their en­quiring after them. Nor can all his tug­ging set him clear from his contradiction in making the promises absolute, and yet conditional. If they be the one, they are not the other; nor can he ever bring them nearer than thus, that they may seem to be conditional, but indeed are not.

Hath not God promised ab­solutely to give belief and repentance to a certain number of Elect persons?

No.

Now I see plainly what you are.

Be not so confident: Neither his [...]or your eyes are good, you have no considerable understanding in these mat­ [...]ers. For whatsoever intentions and [...]rposes God hath of doing more for some persons than for others, there is no declaration of this made by the promises [...]o them, but they all run conditionally. And if I had not ceased all wonder at [...]hat this man talks, his boldness would [...]cite that passion now, in maintaining [...]is position against me, that God pro­ [...]ises to some, do what they will, that [...]hey shall repent and believe. This I [...]enied, and he opposes me in it, as you [...]ay see p. 37. of his Book. But those [...]ery places, so unlucky he is in all things, [...]ich he brings to prove his assertion, [...]re a strong confutation of 11 Ezek. [...]9.36. Ezek. 26. I will put a new spi­ [...] into you, &c. For as these promises [...]ere not made to some particular Elect [...]ersons, but to the whole Nation of the [...]s, so he else-where by the same [Page 356]Prophet, (Chap. 18.31.) require them to make them a new heart and a new Spi­rit, supposing that otherways they should dye. Nay, he expressly tells them immedi­ately after this promise Ezek. 11.21. that as for thos [...] whose heart walked after their detestabl [...] things (notwithstanding that he had put [...] new Spirit into them to walk in his Sta­tutes) he would recompencetheir wayes upo [...] their own heads. All this shows he did no­promise to amend them and make the [...] walk in his wayes whether they would o [...] no; but that he only assured them of hi [...] Grace and the means of being made bet­ter, which if they did not use, and mak [...] them a new Spirit, after God had put i [...] into their hearts, they were like to pe­rish. Let him overthrow this if he ca [...] in as plain words as I have spoken it And there is another task also, and in­deed the main business, if he will de­fend Mr. Br. which he hath not yet at­tempted; and that is to show that it i [...] proper to the New Testament Spirit to trad [...] most or altogether in absolute promise [...] He must reconcile this also with his ow [...] confession, that no body knows how to app [...] [...] promise to themselves [...] and th [...] [...] persons can depend on no promi [...] ­ [...] [...] are conditional. [...] Ho [...] [Page 357] [...]en I pray you, can this be the mark [...]f those that are in Covenant, to be be­ [...] again by a promise, especially the abso­ [...]t promise, as I cite Mr. Br. words, Friendly Debate, p. 44. [...]hough he will take no notice of it? Can [...]hey be begotten without Faith? And can their faith depend on promises when there are none? Mr. Rutherford in my [...]ind deals more sincerely and plainly with us, who tells us of a Believers relying [...]nd confiding in Christ through instinct, and know no ground.

I do not think he sayes any such thing.

I assure you they are his words, Ser non at the Ab­bey, June 25. 1645. p. 51. if you can believe he saith true. ‘And he tells you withal, that Faith is some­time from instinct of Grace, rather than from Light of discourse, especially when we first believe and have nothing but a meer command and know not whither the promise and the Saviour belong to us or not: Even as the In­fant that can make no use of discourse, only trusts to the Mother or the Nurse for Milk by meer instinct, having nei­ther promise nor experience for it. In like manner, he saith, afterward though the promise may be forgotten and out of mind, and the assurance [Page 358]that Christ loved me before the Worl [...] be none at all, a Believer yet may rely and confide in Christ through in­stinct and know no ground.’ This is t [...] speak out and not mince the matter▪ There are no absolute promises that you can find at first: but it is as well, for you can believe without them and know n [...] ground; and then afterward you find these absolute promises by the same se­cret instinct, as I suppose, for we can find none by all our discourse.

I did not intend to engage you [...] in this Dispute.

Nor I to enter farther into it, than was necessary to show you how unjustly he vapours upon this occasion, as if he had brought me upon my knees, when he hath not said one word to the busi­ness. He talks I remember of arrows Preface, p. 31.that he hath shot at me alone, whom he hath singled out from the rest of the Herd. But I find, would you think it? that there is no such way to be secure from them as to run to the mark. As for those that I have shot, I will take so much confidence as to think, that though like the Buck he may stand a while with the Arrows in his side, and while he is hot not feel them much, yet you shall see him fall at last.

The loudest Barkers are not alwayes the sorest Biters.

I find it so. Few men have been more bawl'd against by others, than I have been by him. He raises such an out-cry as the Philosophers were fained to do against Lucian, In the Di­alogue cal­led the Fishermen. when they cryed Arm, Arm, against this common Ene­my, &c. But after all I am whole and sound enough, he having rather snapt and nibled at some little bits of my Book, than fastned solidly on any intire propo­sition in it. When I say that the most that sober men have said (as far as I can learn) concerning our respect to the recom­pence of reward, is, that he who doth well only in sight of it, is in a weak estate, but yet indowed with an Evangelical Spirit: Friendly Debate, p. 27. He leaves out these words, is in a weak estate; and then snarles and quarrels with me on this fashion: Unless he eye the glory of God, he hath no Evangelical Spi­rit. On this theme he makes a long de­clamation, though a very sorry one, and to no purpose; P. 32, &c. for it is not possible to separate these two, the one from the other.

I do not understand you.

Can a man give greater glory and honour to God than by quitting his [Page 360]present pleasures and other enjoyments, meerly in hope of good things to come which he doth not see, but only takes Gods word for? Doth he not magnifie the Goodness, the Truth, the Faithful­ness, the Power of God, and declare the high thoughts he hath of all these glorious Attributes, who relyes purely on them for all his happiness? There is nothing plainer at first sight; upon which account I cannot retract what I have said, but he ought rather according to his promise, to write no more on this fashion. Let him reform his Sermons (a leaf or two of which he seems here to have transcribed) and talk more under­standingly and discreetly of glorifying God. And above all things let him take care to expound the Scripture better, which he hath perverted most grossly twice or thrice in this very Argument. Who, before him, expounded those words Hosea 10.1. [Israel is an empty Vine, he bringeth forth fruit to himself] of their having respect only to their own good in their Actions, and not to Gods glory? It is a place as many wayes rendred and expounded as any I can now call to mind: H. Zanchy hath been at the pains to enumerate two interpretations [Page 361]of Rabbi Salomon, another of Dr. Kimchi, a fourth of Aben-Ezra's (which is S^t. Hieromes also) in short there are no less then 7. or 8. wayes of explicating these words, and yet none of them so much as lean towards the sense which this great Censurer obtrudes upon us. Oc­colampadius and others observe that they may be read with an interrogation, doth he bring forth fruit to himself? that is, doth he think the Enemy will leave him any thing, who hath already stript him so bare? No, he will take all away. Others render the words, He shall lay up the fruit, that is, of his sins. A third exposition is, he shall find no fruit, the reason is because of his ingratitude. The simplest sense of all Mercer thinks is this, as he is an empty vine, so he shall bring forth fruit like himself. i. e. none at all. As much as to say, he is spoiled by the Enemy, and deprived by God of the power of increasing. This Zanchy also approves of as the best. But what needs so many words? He commends M^r. Cal­vin sometimes as one of the best inter­preters in the world: pag. 121. 269. To M^r. Calvin therefore he shall go; who speaks not a syllable to this purpose; But after he [...]ath mention'd several other senses ap­proves [Page 362]of this above all. Israel is like a Vine, which having been spoiled one year, brings forth fruit again the next. The Lord vouchsafed his blessing to him, after he had let his vintage be destroyed. But what was the issue? The next words tell you; though God had let him bring forth fruit to himself not his Enemies, he grew worse rather than better there­by, and according to the multitude of his fruit, he multiplyed his Altars. He that hath not these Books may look into the Dutch Annotations, who recite se­veral expositions, but none of his. As for the Assemblies Annot: those printed 1645. speake not a word of it. But those of the 3^rd. Edit: 1657. expound it first as M^r. Calvin doth, he brings forth fruit to himself, not to others; but consumes it on his own lusts and Idolatries; and then mentions some of those named be­fore. There is but one that I have met withal who expounds the words of serving himself and he means thereby, pleasing himself in his sins.

What need you make all this stirre about this place.

It is not a desight in multiplying words that makes me use so many in such an argument, but only a desire to [Page 363]convince you beyond contradiction, that he is a vain talker about the Scrip­ture: one that muses and dreames over them, as I told you before, rather than meditates in them. And yet, like one that having a noisom breath censures the ill lungs of his neighbours, he hath the impudence to charge me most un­justly with this, that my Book is full of Scripture misinterpreted p. 142. Nay to wish, I do not spoil all the holy Scripture I meddle withal. p. 122. When he can­not name one I have spoiled or mis­interpreted, and he himself I clearly discern, is no competent judg, whe­ther a man alledg the Scripture a right or not.

I am sure I am not; being un­acquainted with Expositors.

And so are many of those who undertake to teach others: of whom the Quakers learnt to apply the Scripture according to the sound of the words, not the sense. For they cite these words of another prophet 5. Jerem. last. as learnedly [the Preists beare rule by their meanes] to prove that our Ministers good livings keep up their Authority, as this man doth the words now named, to prove that a good man must eye the glory of [Page 364]God and not only himself in what he doth; or the words of S^t. Paul [he hath chosen the weak things of this world to confound the mighty &c.] to prove that God recovers men out of defections and despair by mistakes or misapplications of holy Scripture. p. 75.

I think he hath shown how much you were mistaken (to say no worse) in that business.

He pulls one half of my words from the other, and then makes a long babble upon them, consisting very much of impertinent comparisons instead of clear proofs and reasons. I said that by fanciful applications of some Scrip­ture, or other not belonging to their condition, well meaning people are cast down and again raised up &c. This he cannot deny: and yet takes notice only of the latter, their recovery by mistak­ing Gods word, and lets the former pass, their falling into malancholy by the same me [...]s. The reason is, because he had no Questions to ask about that, nor any stories out of which to draw this conclusion, that God brings men into despaire, as he saith, he brings them out by mistaking his meaning in his word. But abate him that, and yet, [Page 365]he shall not hit the mark; for the busi­ness is not, as he states it whether a mans melancholy never had any consi­derable ground, because he was cured by mistake or misapplication of Scrip­ture; pag. 73. but whether men do not both fall into melancholy and again are re­covered out of it, merely by such mis­takes or misapplicatins. I say they do; and why he doth not honestly consess it too, I cannot tell; unless it be that he may still keep such miserable Patients under his cure, which he is better able to perform by misapplying the holy Scripture then other ways. And that he may maintain this trade of comfor­ting poor Souls with mere words with­out their sense, mark what a rabble of stories and examples he hath mustered up, which hang together with his con­clusion like Harp and Harrow. These are some of his arguments. A man was cured of a dangerous imposthume by a stab which was intended to take away his life; therefore God cures men of their despair by misapplications of holy Scripture. S^t. Austin's life was saved by missing his way, when one lay in wait to kill him, therefore God delivers men from their trouble of mind, by [Page 366]missing the sense of his word. The Pro­phet Elijah was fed by Ravens, and Jericho's Walls fell down by Rams-horns; therefore God conveys peace into mens hearts by their fanciful interpretations and mistakings of what he saith. These are some of his reasonings, which ne­ver a Rational Divine of them all can equal.

He saith God can do all this, and is able to cause the light of comfort to shine through the chinks of mens mistakes. p. 75.

He means that he doth do it, or else it is nothing to the business. And if there were not some chink or flaw in his brain he would have seen that he ought to say, he comforts them not only through the chinks of their mistakes, but by their mistakes. And he would have discerned also that these goodly Arguments which prove he can do this, prove that he can comfort them by a leafe or Sentence of any other Book, let it be what it will. And the more unlikely and improportionable They are his words. pag. 75. the means are whereby the cure is effected (sup­pose a bit of Tom Thumb or the like) the more it will redound to his glory, and get him greater honour, then if it p. 73.74. [Page 367]were by a piece of Scripture and that well understood.

Phy for shame!

This is the force of his reasoning, as appeares further by the illustration which follows. A physitian is more to be admired, he tells you, who deceives his melancholy into a cure, than he that sets him right by a long course of phy­sick. The consequence of which is clearly this, that the more absurd the conceit is by which he cures him the more he is to be admired: and so the further a thing is from the mind of God, the more glory it will be to him, if a man receive comfort by it. This according to one of his resemblances, is like E­lijahs being fed by a Raven, which Ib. pag. 74.was more like to beguile him, than feed him, &c. to bring him carrion rather than wholesome food.

I do not believe that God doth all that he can do.

Now you have overthrown all he hath said in a word. And happy would it be for him, and better much for you; if you could but teach him this one little peice of Logick. For this mad way of talking and preaching hath debauched Religion; and taught any man to set up [Page 368]for an instructor of others, who under­stood not common consequence. It is but putting on a bold face, and quoting a great many Scriptures, and scraping up some stories, and making a show with similitudes and examples, and then pittying all others and sighing over them as strangers to the Mind and Me­thods of God; and without any more ado they shall be taken for great men by the Ignorant. They can commence Master of the highest knowledg in an instant: And without any study under­stand the mind of the Spirit. Or if they do not understand it, the difference is not so great but it may do as well. For Scripture misinterpreted can bring com­fort from God and therefore why not other things. Say what you will, this confident folly shall be maintained. Such men as this are resolved, it is plain, not only to countenance and defend the never to be too much lamented mis­interpretation of Gods holy word, but to incourage and promote it; by in­teressing God in it, nay, making it for his greater glory to convey peace into mens souls by this means.

God forbid any man should be so resolved.

Rather than acknowledge their errors, I mean, or be thought to have less of the Spirit of God, than indeed they have; they will justifie all their fancies, and abuses of Gods Word: and by new faults maintain the old. And whatsoever this man pretends, I doubt not, but the ground of that wrath which he, and others like to him, have con­ceived against me, is only this; that they find their follies laid open and ex­posed to the view of the World. They are not so much concerned for the cre­dit of Religion, as appears by his being contented the Scripture should be still misinterpreted, as for their own credit, which they think is impaired. Rather than suffer this, what is there they will not endure? To oppose the Army, were it on foot again, would be without any controle (for any thing I can see) to re­sist the Holy Ghost, for that mighty things have been done by them cannot be de­nied. Continu­ation of Friend [...], Debate, [...]. 156.

Meddle not with these things.

No, we must let it pass for the Word of God, if a Reformer tell us that be staggers not at the promise through un­belief, Ib. p. 162. though it will puzzle you I be­lieve, [Page 370]to find a promise to encourage you to reform the Church after your patterns against the will of your Prince.

I know none.

I'le try to help you out, from the writings of those Ministers who urged the taking of the Covenant by this Ar­gument, We have seen the day of the Lords power in this Land, wherein his people have most willingly offered themselves in mul­titudes like the dew of the Morning. Answer to the reply of the Mi­nisters of Aberde. p. 15. If the people be but willing to assist you, presently you will find promises to en­courage you in your designs—

I shall leave you, if you pro­ceed at this rate.

Stay a little. You cannot be con­tent I am sure that this man should cur­tail the Scripture, as he doth my words, to make it seem on his side.

He is not guilty of that, I hope.

Read the 3. Coloss. 23, 24. to which he refers you P. 33. for a proof of what he saith about looking to our reward, though little to his purpose. VVhatso­ever you do, do it heartily as unto the Lord; knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance. For ye serve the Lord Christ. So he quotes [Page 371]the place; but leaves out these material words for the finding the sense, [and not unto men] and then expounds it thus; That we must have an eye to the glory of God and Christ in what we do, or else we shall not receive the reward, where­as the Apostle doth not oppose serving the Lord to serving themselves, but to ser­ving men (as appears by the words which he laid aside, as lying cross in his way) and would have them please their Masters though Heathens, thinking all the while they were doing a part of Christs work; who would certainly pay them their wages, because they were his Servants. By this you see what men will do to serve their own cause, and how easie a matter it is presently to stuff up a Book and to croud into it a number of good words and yet not write good sense. Rather than fail, there is a way to strain the holy Scriptures, and set them upon the rack, that they may reach their purpose; as he doth those words of the Apostle [supposing gain is Godliness 1 Tim. 6.5. pag. 36.] to reprove those who Act only out of a light of the recompence of reward. As if the Apostle spoke there of gaining Heaven, and these were the men from whom we must withdraw our selves —

No more, good Sir; these are the perverse disputings, I doubt, of men of corrupt minds, which the Apostle there speaks of.

Very near of kin to them. But if I should proceed to show you how he hath perverted the sense of a great num­ber of other Scriptures which he hath meddled withal, that alone would hold us half as long as we have been already. They are not words I cast out at random, but I speak deliberately, and as I think. Nor have I time to reckon up all the rest of the places in my Book, where he hath left out words, or abused the sense: I will name only a few more, when I mention Prayer, communion with God, and Meditation, as instances of such du­ties as may be performed between God and our selves, and not such as are ex­pressed in life and manners, p. 40. He tells you that I take these to be the things which are so airy and refined that no bo­dy can feel them, no, not with his most serious thoughts. P. 56. of his Book. And because I affir­med that commonly well meaning peo­ple fancy themselves deserted by God, when they are not (which is sober and good sense, and the sum of what I said) he is in a rage, and fancies the Devil to [Page 373]be entred into me, nay, no less than seven Devils; and cryes out, the Lord rebuke you. Ib. p. 72For was our Saviour, saith he, a melancholy and fanciful person, &c. what led him to that wild discourse, I know not, unless it were his love to con­tradict, and his great wrath and passion against me. Which evil Spirits (to speak in his own language) I hope have but a short time, they rage, and tear, and foam, and (as his words are) sput­ter so much. For he tells you I carp at God, and cast smiles of scorn and derisi­on upon the words of the Holy Ghost, and intimates I am approaching towards the Blasphemy against it; and had almost said I am in the same condition with Simon Magus. All this stuff you may find. p. 76, 77. And what is all this Holy bluster about? Nothing but this, what I spoke of many persons now, he would have you think was meant of all that e­ver were, even of our Saviour himself: and my exposing their fond talk of shi­nings in and Sealings to that shame which it deserves, he makes account is an abuse of the language of the Holy Ghost. And yet they themselves cannot but smile at the Pope when he pretends to the Holy Ghost, and at his Priests who tell us of Miracles and apparitions of Christ; and [Page 374]the Anabaptists in the beginning of the Reformation, who talk of Illuminations, and extasies; and the wild people of the late times, when they brag'd of their anointings, and teachings, and that they were the people of the Lord: All which are Scripture phrases, but by them most ridiculously used and applyed to themselves, as you cannot but acknow­ledge, what is the matter then, that you are so angry with me for a smile or two? would you only have the Mono­poly of these phrases? will you have no body to trade in them (as VV. B. speaks) but only your selves? And must we think you are full of the Spirit when you are only full of Scripture words, Shinings and Sealings, and such like? Is it not possible to charge you with folly, but we must be thought to wound the blessed Creator too, and to be offended at the Holy Ghost? Pag. 76. Away with these proud conceits. Do not imagine God and your selves to be so united, nor call all your own fancies, by the name of Di­vine Mysteries.

Take heed how you speak a­gainst Gospel-Mysteries.

They are your Mysteries, not the Gospel's, which you make such a stir [Page 375]about, and call him profane who hath not the same reverence for them, which you have your selves. And thus the Egyptians, I remember, when they wor­shipt Apes, Storks and Dogs, said, those are very great Mysteries; be not too bold in talking against them. As if, said Lucian, there were any need of a My­stery, or it were such a secret piece of wisdom, by which we know Gods to be Gods, and Dogs to be Dogs. Dialogue call [...] Council of the God [...].

I confess the Gospel-Mysteries are plain now, being revealed by the Spirit in the Apostles, as we have alrea­dy discoursed.

It is very true. Hold to those and we shall have no difference about such matters. But let this man rave as long as he pleases, and lift up his Nose to the Skies, if he can; he shall never per­swade me that you are more extraordina­rily inlightned; and understand more of them than other men; unless I hear you talk more wisely. Nor shall I think that I of­fend when I say many of you take their sudden fancies for gleames of glory, and ir­radiations of the Holy Ghost. Let him bab­ble also till his tongue be weary about experiences, I shall only believe that he was in love with wrangling and hearing [Page 376]himself talk perpetually. For I stated that Doctrine plainly enough, but he takes no notice of it: and would have those, who will read his Book and never look into mine, believe upon his word that I am an Enemy to Christian experi­ence, Pag. 158. and perswade them to disbelieve it; Pag. 160. and in short, am an Anti-experi­mentist.

You have made me out of love with hard words.

It's his own (p. 158.) a com­pound of Greek and Latin, and there­fore worse than Heterodoximony.

What a word is that?

O it makes a dreadful noise, and is very effectual to perswade the People that they hear a Pope not squeak, but roar in our Belly. So he would have you think, that some Preachers make the P [...]lpits Eccho to Rome ever and anon; and by their Heterodoximony have inflamed the Peoples fears R [...]bail­ding of London encouraged p. 184.. But (to let that pass) he might as well have said I jeered at keeping the Lords-day (commonly called the Sabbath) as at laying up and commu­nicating experiences, for they are both put together in my Book p. 167. This, one would think, he was sensible of, for mentioning this passage out of my Book [Page 377]afterward p. 162. of his Book., and speaking of other par­tculars, he leaves out this; and then basely slanders me for putting experiences or those that treasure up and communicate them, among the workers of iniquity. When I only said, that the power of god­liness, did not consist in such things as these. But there is 50 [...] much folly which he powres out on this subject, that it would make too great a part of a Book to lay them open. Would you think any man should be so senseless, as, when I smile at a man that brings his own experience to prove the truth of Christianity, to tell me [...]f the experience the World hath had of the Gospel being propagated far and near? Is this (to omit what might be otherwise replyed) any of your parti­cular experiences? Do you feel that the Jews are a miserable People at this day, which is another thing he mentions? If we must write Books at this rate, it will be endless; for a man must be forced to write the same things over and over a­gain to convince such opposers. And therefore fare him well; let him enjoy all his idle conceits about Holy-days, and tell us of their unwillingness to keep such days as we do not keep our selves St. Swe­then, St Georg, &c. p. 151.; that this Saint is better than that; and say, [Page 378]as he doth profanely, that they are dis­posed to keep a Fast rather than a Festival in remembrance of St. Bartholomew They are his own words. p. 153.; one of the Holy Apostles, to whom some part of the World was beholden for preaching the Gospel: Let him prefer his Major Gen. if he will before him, and make this an Argument against observing our Holy-days, because they are no bet­ter observed p. 155.; I resolve not to trouble my self with such matters, nor all the rest of his impertinencies on this subject.

I am glad of it with all my heart; I hope we are almost at an end.

And I am as glad that he hath be­stowed his six week; time (almost) in abusing me and perverting the sense of my Book, if it have kept him from worse imployment.

I know not what you aim at.

The same that a Gentleman of a neighbouring Nation did, who was used by another Phil. Philar­chus who writ a­gaint Bal­zac. just as I have been by this, and his comfort I take to my self. ‘This little misch of which is done me, may be of some use [...] the Common­wealth: and while malice amuses it self about matters of this concern­ment, it may not find leisure to inter­meddle in affairs of higher moment. [Page 379]They that imploy their time in per­verting the sense of Books, and falsi­fying mens Works, are of such a disposition, that it is possible (as this man speaks) they might have been busied in forging of Wills, or cliping of Money. And he that comes only to desire a Licence or Priviledg for a Book As he did to Seignior Ld. Chaac. of France in a letter, to whom these passa­ges are., might haue sued for a Pardon or a Reprieve. It is much better that injustice should sport it self in the spoiling of a poor Dialogue, than that it should trouble the publick tranquil­lity; and that it should transpose words and alter periods, than remove the bounds of lands, or perplex mens e­states. To say the truth, it is the most innocent imployment that Vice can have; and I might be thought to have served my Country, if I had done no more than find such idle people some work, who might have proved dan­gerous Citizens, if they had not cho­sen to be ridiculous Censurers.’

I hope you do not apply all this to him.

I must, at least, let him know thus much. That I am perfectly well content if the heat of his brains exhale this way, and his intemperate rage find no other [Page 380]vent. If he know not what to do with his zeal, let him continue to spend it on me, rather than suffer it to be more dan­gerously imployed. If this scope and liberty which he gives to his folly, will go no further, he may proceed as he hath begun. And let him call in what assistance he please to pelt me, and powre whole showers of stones upon me, it is like I may be able (as that Gentleman said in his case) I may be able to build my self a Monument with those stones, which Wrath and Malice hurl at me, without doing me any harm.

You will have good luck then, for you may expect other kind of stones than you think of, if all be true that he saith; Hail-stones or Thunder-bolts, for he tells you, he hath but anticipated others that would have come against you in a whirl­wind, and all in Thunder-claps (whereas he speakes in a still and gentle voice) which might have broken all your bones Preface 31..

Pish! They will prove but the noise of Pot-guns, I warrant you. And I look upon this but as a Vapour, and a piece of that Vanity, I told you he is guil­ty of; which hath contrived I cannot tell how many punishments for me. It is but a small matter that in the beginning of his Preface he supposes I deserve to be [Page 381]cut off pag. 3 [...]: he can tell you the manner of it. Either by a Leprosy like Gehazi, or by a worse means; being in as much danger as most men he knows to dy like He­rod of the lowsy disease They are his words. pag. 80.. And why so, think you?

Your pride and insolence is so great as he tells you; as appeares par­ticularly by telling us of W. B. lowsy simi­litudes; which he cannot divine how it should come into your mind, unless your head be already full of lice.

Is not his pride and insolence greater than that he layes to my charge, who presumes, you see, there can be no good Reason for a thing, if he do not know it? Let him know now, once for all, that I did not throw any word carelesly into my Paper (as he doth) but wrote deliberately and gave such Epi­thetes to things as I judged upon consi­deration most proper: if he like me the worse for this, I care not; I like my self the better.

Could you have any reason for so Vile an Epithete.

Suppose I had learned it out of your Books and only returned your own words back again to you; where had the fault been? I am sure I find some [Page 382]of your Spirit in times past, called the Orders in the Common-prayer Book, carnal, beggarly, lowsy and Antichri­stian. Dr. Ban­crost's Ser­mon at Pauls Cross. p. 20.

But you should not have imi­tated such beggarly language.

Nor W. B. used such beggarly si­militudes. For the true Reason, I told you I had a good one continua­tion. p. 116 I assure you, of that Epithete, was this; that he compares an unconverted person to a Beggar, who drops lice as the other doth sins where ever he goes. You will say (these are his words Sinful­ness of sin &c. p. 27. which hath his name to it. 1667.) a Beggar is full of vermine that drops his vermine, wheresoever he goes. So men not con­verted, they are dropping their vermine where ever they go. If they come in good company, they are dropping their vermine there; if they come in bad, they are dropping their vermine there. Why? be­cause they are full of vermine, full of sin. What think you? will he be satis­fied now?

I am even nauseated with the mention of vermine so often.

It would do well, now that I have told him how this Epithete came into my mind, if he would go to W. B. and desire to know how this similitude came into his. For this should put his divining [Page 383]faculty, I should think, harder to it than the other: since he is more kind, no doubt, to him than he was to me, and will not suppose his head to be full of these creepers. How is it possible then that they should come into his mind? especially if you confider, that they are now past the Equinoctial of their suffering; he having almost said, that they are run through all the twelve signes of that Zodiack.

I did not think you would have mention'd this any more; and now me thinks it comes in by the head and shoulders.

There is nothing more apposite, else you should have heard of it no more. For according to that famous Cosmogra­pher Don Quixote Part. 2. chap. 29. —

That's as bad as Brachygra­pher.

No, its grown a common word and as well known as if you say a de­scriber of the world.

Well; go on.

According to him, I say, as soon as ever any ship hath passed the Equi­noctial, immediately all the Lice dye, so that there is not one to be found about any man there, if you would give it's [Page 384]weight in gold for it. And therefore he may spare that request which Don Quixot made to Sancho whom he be­seeched to grope a little (when he was in doubt where they were as they sailed in the enchanted Bark) for if he found never a live thing about him, he might be sure they had cut the line. There needs no more labour but to scratch his head for a Reason to satisfy this inquisi­tive Gentleman, how one so cleane, so free from all vermine, should have such conceits crawling in his head.

This jesting doth not become you.

Had I not better laugh, than be angry at his folly? would you have me go about to confute seriously all that he talks about lice and the lowsy disease, and the black and yellow Jaundice, pag. 88. with such like scabby stuff? (do not be angry; that is one of the things he there men­tions.)

No. But you find fault with his indeavours to be witty.

You have very lucky words, and express my mind very well: Wit is not a thing to be studied or learnt; men lose it (as is apparent by this man) in seeking for it: and while they labour to be [Page 385]facetious they become ridiculous. Is there any thing more monstrous than a jest half English and half Latine? This is to play the fool in two languages: and to make a mans self a laughing stock to the Wise, without being admired by the Vulgar.

I confess I understand not his Latine.

He pleases himself in such English jests as would never have come into an ingenious mans head; and which a man of ordinary wit would have thrown away, had they offered themselves.

You will be thought intol­lerably proud for this very censure.

It must be by those who think it a mighty matter, to hit now and then upon a pleasant conceit. And if they speak some things with a grateful sharp­ness, find it an hard matter to be humble.

I pray Sir, is it not the hardest thing in the world?

To those who have but a superfi­cial sense of their Creator. But to others who live in a continual remem­brance of him, and are deeply sensible that they are but what he made them and helpt them to be, it is the most [Page 386]natural and easy thing that belongs to our duty. But what do you tell me of pride when he is guilty of such pre­sumption as I have now named; and before I dye of the lowsy disease, threa­tens me with perpetual barrenness (p. 27) the blessing of Cham (p. 29. Surely the blessing of Cham will be upon you.) wrath to the uttermost (p. 54.) and after all this, a portion worse than Dives had in the place of Torment p. 80. And with some kind of gust he tells me, that God will certainly reward me for what I have done, either in this world or in the next. As if it were some pleasure to think, how I shall be treated there, though they cannot show their kindness to me here. But with such Bugbeares they have been wont to affright others before me upon small occasions. When Mr. Coleman I remember did but desire that as few things might be established jure Divino, as might well be; presently he was ratled with a what Sir? Will you not speak for your Masters right? are you ashamed to plead his cause. Take heed that fearful threatning befal not you 8. Mark. 38. Whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words &c. of him shall the Son of man be ash amed &c. Brief view of Mr. Cole­man's Mo­del. pag. 5. 1645. And Melancthon hath also observed, Ʋpon 16 Rom. 18. that [Page 387]they who defend absurd things when they want arguments, are apt to be­take themselves to thundering of Ana­thema's against their Adversaries, to denouncing curses, to evil speaking or threatning of them. But no body need be troubled at this, for I am of his mind who said, that all the presages or wishes of Enemies are of the same power with the imprecations of Poets, and the false bruits of Fame, which sound very dreadfully, but are able to do us no harm.

Nor would he do you any harm if he could, but rather save you from it.

But can he pass his word for others too? Time was he saith, when if a man had spoken Irish half so distinctly, as I speak Fanatick, he had been sure enough trussed up for a spye. pag. 156. first of them. These words, me thinks, carry a scurvy intimation in them of the danger I should be in if that time return again.

Do not strain things beyond their meaning.

No I will as soon swing by the head in a string, as deal with him after that manner he hath done with me. I have reported his words just as they are, [Page 388]and what you think of them, I will think too.

I think they are none of the handsomest language, but had no bad intention.

Let it be so then. I am resolved not to wrangle about any thing that may have a fair interpretation: though I must tell you, he carps and wrangles with me without any cause in the world. Of which vice I must give you some instances according to my promise in the beginning: and because it is very late, they shall be but two, which ly also very near together.

Mention being made in the Friendly Debate of three sorts of N. C. the last of which (as you may see p. 206. &c.) are said to be between both, he quar­rels because they were not placed in the middle, being a middle sort of men between the two Extreams, and by the middle we must come at the Extreames See his Book pag. 218.: And yet this is the very man, who in another case gives advice quite contrary to this, and reasons too why the middle should come last. The Building of the City, I mean, he would have begin at both ends, where it stai'd, for every body knows (mark his words Rebuild: of London Discourse. 19. p. 128.) that it is [Page 389]better to proceed from extreams to the middle, (for virtue is in the middle) to build first at both ends or extreams of the City, and so to proceed to the middle, from the two poles as it were to the Center.

I did not think men could cross themselves on this fashion.

Nothing more easy; when they are resolved to be cross to others in every thing.

It seemes there is one rule for building of Cities, and another for building of Books, if you will let me so speak.

As you please. But he crosses this rule he hath made for me, once more in that Book. For when he had told us of two Proverbs, nothing venture, no­thing have, and venture all, and lose all; both which sometimes proves true; he then brings us to the middle way, which he saith, is best; neither venture all, nor venture nothing, but venture something though not all. Discourse 40. p. 245.

I begin to feare he hath an itch of finding fault where there is none: for how should a man know what the middle between two extreames is, till he first know them?

It's well that I can extort that little confession from you. Look a little fur­ther, and tell me what you think of that passage p. 220. where upon occasion of my desiring those Ministers who are not against the Common-Prayer, that they would instruct the People in the Truth, and bring them to a modest and peaceable temper, in order to a compliance with us, he tells me in a jeering way, Sir they are your journey­men, and you may command them what you please, or rather your poor Apprentices, &c. as if I desired them to do us service (which God knows was not in my thoughts) and not to serve the Truth and Peace of the Church of Christ. This is mere perversness of spirit; and ar­gues he did not read or write with a good mind, but studies more to keep up a party, than to promote true Christian Religion.

However he tells you, they can do nothing for the making up the breach. Some have tried to satisfy the People about joyning in a Form of Pray­er &c. and it will not do. p. 223.

He speaks diffidently and saith, Some it may be have tried. But let us take it for a certainty, and since you [Page 391]mention it let me say a few things briefly to it. First, he acknowledges then the gross ignorance and stupidity of your People (which I told you of the last time) who will sooner joyn with Qua­kers as he saith more than once p. 15. and 227.; than with us of the Church of England. For that is his argument against perswading them to be reconciled to us, that the next news we may hear of them shall be, that they have joyned themselves to the A­nabaptists, or to the Quakers, &c. But Secondly, it would be duly considered and sadly laid to heart, how they came by these prejudices and antipathies against so sober a way of worshipping God as is among us. Let those mis-zealous men saith Bp. Hall Answer to the Vin­dication of Smectym. Paragr. 13, who have infused these distastes into well meaning Soules; See how they will answer it at the great day to the Judg of quick and dead. Surely if the case were mine, I should fear it would fall heavy upon my Soul. Thirdly, let them all come back themselves to our Congre­gations, though they cannot bring the people with them. They will thereby do what in them lies to take away the scandal they have given; and they will also leave those people, who when the humour takes them may leave them, and [Page 392]run to the wild sects where still they may enjoy more Liberty. It was a good Me­mento of Mr. Greenhams to Brown when he first separated from our Church, that he hoped he might be better informed and return again to us, but he bid him bethink himself what would become of those poor Souls whom he had seduced, and were carried away, who might run further and further from us, but never be reclaimed. His words pro­ved true, for Brown returned and died a Member of the Church of England, but his Sect remains to the great disturbance of it to this day. It had been well if all your Ministers of this generation had thought of this, and so not begun to lead away so many Souls into a mischievous Schism, who may never be restored: but as it is, if they cannot reduce them, let them come back themselves, and not be worse than the Father of the Sepa­ration. And Fourthly, I have hope here­by that they may do some good, what­soever this man saith, upon the better part of your People; if they set them­selves to it unanimously and with all their heart. For what cannot be done by one man alone (whose unsuccessful labours be untruly talks of) might be done to [Page 393]great purpose if all were of the same pious mind, and joyned in the same good work by Doctrine and Example: decla­ring that neither they nor their Prede­cessors ever held there were any such foul corruptions in our Worship or Go­vernment as should be a just ground for Separation. And Lastly, if there be no hope at all of this; what makes this Gen­tleman talk of an Accommodation and Union between C. and N, C. and that a purpose of it seemed to be as it were pu­blishing very lately Preface. p. 9.? Sure he knows not the meaning of those words, or else contradicts himself, which it is as easie for him to do, as it is to write.

That word Schism which you mentioned just now, is harder to under­stand than Union. For he seems to plead the same reason for our Separation from you, which is alledged for your Sepa­ration from Rome.

That's one of his miserable shifts and excuses which he makes for things that are sinful, Is he so little a Divine as to think we separated from the Church of Rome because they impose terms of Communion which are unne­cessary to be imposed. p. 134.

That might have been left out [Page 394]I think: for he adds, and which our Con­science cannot submit unto.

But is he in good earnest? May we leave a Church without sin, whenso­ever it imposes any thing that our Con­sciences will not let us submit unto?

Pray do you determine.

You shall determine it your selves, for we have not time to discuss this mat­ter thoroughly now. Pray tell me upon what account did you accuse the Inde­pendents of Schism heretofore? They would not in Conscience submit to your Government? and yet Mr. Jenkins calls it, The Schism of Independency [...]ind Guide guided. p. 11. and so doth Mr. Edwards Antopolog. p. 248.; and it is the third general Reason given by the London Ministers in their Letter to the Assembly, against Tolleration, That In­dependency is a Schism; which they prove by such Arguments as I cited in our first Debate out of your own Authors (which this man wisely passes over) and among the rest by this; they separate from a true Church, and therefore make a Schism. There was one I know who replied upon this, that it is no true Church which uses compulsion; but he was answered immediately, then the Churches of New England are false Churches, for they will suffer no Secta­ries [Page 395]neither. But we must not debate this further unless there be another oc­casion; and I must also pass by several things I thought to have said about scandal, because it is not fit to weary you. It shall suffice to admonish you of that good rule of M^r. Baxter, ☞It is a private uncatholique Principle, that a Minister should more feare or avoid the offending and hurting of his own parti­cular flock, then the offending and hurt­ing of the Catholique Church, or of many particular Churches, where the interest of Christ and the Gospel is greater &c. True Ca­tholique Church p. 144. If Philagathus had considered this, or what I said the last time, he would not have made that lame excuse for your Ministers which you meet withal, p. 130. Which shows he had a mind to make a Book, rather than an Answer. Such another is that which he makes for their meeting in time of Divine Service: pag. 15. which he could not but know is a cover­ing a great deale too short for them. Do they therefore meet at that time because the Churches will not hold all our people? open thy mouth man, as at other times, and speake out; Is this the cause dost thou verily think that they hold their Assemblies at those hours [Page 396]when we hold ours? Let him assure himself, this very thing hath laid such as he is very low in the opinion of some who had better thoughts of them before; that they strain themselves on this fashion to alledg those for the reasons of their Brethrens actions, which they know in their consciences are not the reasons. It is a great discredit to them­selves, and an affront withal to their Neighbours.

How so?

By imagining them so silly as to be put off with such flams as these. But we may pardon such little things in a man who can presume many things to be true without any reason at all. Nay, he can presume (contrary to reason, and the very scope of my discourse as I have shown you) that some things which I had learnt more than ordinary, contain an enumeration of all the material points our Minister hath preached to us, after, it may be, six years residence with us. They are his own words. p. 138. And that I would turn one of them if need were (p. 147.) and that if our Governours should put forth their hands and touch all we have, we would curse them as the Devil You see whom he imitates in this wicked presump­tion.said Job would curse God, though not to their faces, yet behind their backs. [Page 397]p. 28. and that they themselves would not be so rigorous as they were, if they had power again, p. 84.

Some of them, he saith, would not, &c.

who are they? A very worthy man (as he tells you he is p. 111) the Au­thor of Nehushtan will not have it law­ful to tollerate the Common-Prayer. His Auditors you need not question are of that mind, and thought those Ser­mons would do well to be printed to make more Proselytes. How many they are we know not, but will not they be earn­est think you, had they power, for the abolishing of the Liturgy as a Monument of Idolatry? And when indulgence was consented unto in some cases, was it not conditioned expresly, that it should not extend to tollerate the use of the common-prayer in any place whatsoever Four Bills and propositi­ons, order­ed to be printed, 11 March, 1647. p. 32.? How shall we be sure that such stiff men would be more yielding, if they were armed with their former strength? But this man hath such a strong belief (otherwise called conceit) that he can presume any thing; no less than this, that he deserves some Countenance from our Governours for writing this goodly Book: Preface, p. 35. and from his party, no doubt, for presuming so [Page 398]lustily for them, that there is no such principle as this which the N. C. hold, that things lawful enough in themselves, become unlawful when they are once enjoyn­ed in the worship of God. P. 105. When the contrary is so apparent that some say it is Idolatry to use such things.

You tell me news.

It is easier a great deal to write a Book about this bigger than any I have made, than to say all those things which we have now discoursed. Did I not tell you the last time of one who makes the imposing of any Form, model, or me­thod of worship, though made by a Council of Elect Angels, to be an usur­pation of Divine Authority, and a setting up of a mans self for God? Continu­ation of the Friend­ly Debate, p. 386. &c. How come you to be so forgetful?

Now I remember it. more words.

Let me tell you, he is not singular in this, but it is a common opinion spread very much among you, that no man on Earth hath power in matters of Religion Christ on his Throne p. 60. [...] and therefore any ordinances about such matters are an Evacuation of Christ's Death, an apparent Apostacy from him, and sute not with the liberty of the Gospel, wherewith Christ hath made us free. [Page 399]The most moderate of this sort of men, and many that go under the denominati­on of Presbyterians, tells us that it is an invasion of their Christian Liberty, which they ought to maintain: But the more zealous say it is an invasion of Christs own royal Prerogative, which is incommunicable to any, to all the pow­ers on Earth, and which they ought not to betray, to prescribe rules to men which he hath not enjoyned. Vindic. of Indep. Churches. You may as well bring a clean thing out of an un­clean, as make a Spiritual Extraction out of a secular root, saith one, Reply of two of the Brethren to A. S. Christ hath committed the power of the Keyes to e­very particular member of the Church and will of every one demand an account, saith another. Mr. Ea­tons Ser­mon at Knuttes­ford. The power of the Re­presentatives shall not extend to things Spiritual or Evangelical, said the Agree­ment of the people. Pag. 24.20. Jan. 1649. All which was so well known not long ago, that one told them in plain terms, they made the civil Magistrate a Kind of Bat i. e. confined him to the twilight of Nature: And that the Child may not adventure to take his les­son out of any Book, but Natures Primmer. Apology. for Mr. J. Goodwin. 1653. p. 5. In short, this is an opinion as old as the Second Admonition in Qu. Elizabeth's time, where you find these words, though [Page 400]there were never an ill word or sentence in all the Form of our Prayers, yet to ap­point that Form to be used, though the words be good, the use is naught. What doth Phil. think now of his presumptuous undertaking in the behalf of the N. C.? And what will he do for all those who are of this opinion, whom he hath with full mouth proclaimed Rebels A rebel­lious Prin­ciple, it is, &c. your mouth wa­ters to be calling N. C. Rebels, Ib.?

Let them agree it among themselves, for I am none of them; and if you will, let them take the rest which concerns that matter among them, and do what they will with it.

I could make fine sport, if I should enter further into that wild discourse. For like a distracted man he runs from the point in hand, and cryes out, God forbid that any of them should say, that things commanded by God ought not to be done, if seconded by the command of the Magistrate—

If you love me do not follow that wild goose chase, as we call it. I know very well we were speaking of in­different things, and so lawful in them­selves; not of things necessary.

I have done, and shall only note two or three more of his presumptions. To lye a soak in the blood of Christ, he [Page 401]presumes, is an allusion to what is said, of the Adamant Stone steeping in the blood of a Goat, p. 46. which conceit, as ill luck would have it, is quite contrary to another presumption which he relyes much upon, that these men speak to Trades-men, to Farmers or Plough-men See pag. 36. and p. 264. (and therefore may be allowed rude ex­pressions) who know as much what be­longs to Adamants, as you know what belongs to Algebra.

Divines do ordinarily make use of this, as he tells you.

Do they so? Among the coun­try hearers too, the honest Farmers, and Plough-men They are his expres­sions, p. 264.? who are better pleased to hear of a mess or Boul of Pottage, than with a resemblance from the Sun, Moon and Stars? And yet they have seen them oftner a great deal than the Adamant stone. Surely they will not thus forsake their plain preaching; and, notwithstanding this mans presumption, I do not believe that one Reader of a thousand, thought of this Adamant. Let's see therefore if he can do any bet­ter in other things: He makes bold to presume that because the Spirit suggested words to the Apostles, therefore it doth so to us; and because to them in preach­ing [Page 402]therefore to us in Prayer. That is the force of his reasoning, p. 96. The Apostle, saith he, acknowledges him­self beholding to the Holy Ghost (1 Cor. 2.13.) for words as well as affe­ctions, and that in his ordinary preaching. Now if the Spirit do suggest words in preaching, why not in Prayer?

Now that you speak of Pray­er, it will keep you here a little longer. Pray tell me, why did you forget to mention that all this while? Have you no care of your credit and reputation which is lost by what you have said of it, unless you can redeem it? Nay, you have made your name to stink, as he tells you, in the Nostrils of many who before had better thoughts of you. Pag. 95.

That's the smallest matter of a thousand, nor is it any prejudice to me, if they hardly expect, as it there follows, to meet me in Heaven. It is certain they shall not, unless they get thither them­selves: and how to secure that, is a thing should more imploy their thoughts, than to be dreaming what will become of other men. But as to the business you speak of, I did not forget it: but fully intended to have shown all the folly of his discourse about it, as I have done in [Page 403]the rest. Particularly in denying that to be a Rule to us which is infallibly dicta­ted by the Holy Ghost. Pag. 92. And in making publique Prayer (which was the thing we debated about) to be for private use. But now I am sensible it is too late: and we shall part better friends if I let it alone; for your prejudices I doubt are so great, that they will either make you angry at my plainness, or mis-under­stand that which you are not used to think of.

I hope otherwayes: and would gladly stay so long, if you can tell me your mind in short.

Part of it I can. Praying by the Spirit, signifies in the holy language, as I take it, the uttering such petitions as were immediately suggested, both mat­ter and words, by the Holy Ghost, accor­ding as the necessities of the Church requi­red. Such a gift I acknowledged there was in the Apostles dayes, but finding no pro­mise that it should continue to ours, nor any such qualification required by Sr. Paul in a Christian Bishop, I made bold to say that no man now can pray by the Spirit; meaning as the Apostle, did. Nor dare this man say the contrary; but pours out a great many words (as they are [Page 404]wont to do, when fewer would better become them) concerning the Spirits bringing some things to our minds; he cannot tell how much, nor how little; Pag. 93. but for any thing he knows, it may be no­thing at all. But if it do, it makes no­thing against me, who told you in plain words, if he could have raed, or would not have cavilled, that I spoke of a Prayer immediately dictated by the Holy-Ghost, as some were in the Apostles dayes. See more in the Friendly Debiae, p. 88. This he should have opposed, and shown us that there is such a Divine gift, which I deny. And affirm that the gift of Pray­er which is now so much talkt of, is part­ly Natural, and partly acquired, by stu­dy, observation, and orderly digesting of things in our minds. So that to the performance of what belongs to it in a compleat manner, there is requi­red, a competent knowledge of the Will of God revealed in the Holy Scriptures, where the matter of our Prayers is alrea­dy declared to us by Gods Spirit. Next of all, an orderly and distinct apprehension of those things which we know: then a firm memory to keep them in mind and in that order: A ready invention also that we may find out what is most proper on all occasions: together with an easie [Page 405]utterance and fluent expression. All these are to be improved by use and exercise; and when this gift is to be exercised in the presence of others, some degree of confidence and boldness is necessary, either from Nature, or acquired by frequent practice. And the greater the compa­ny is, and the more unacquainted we are with them, that we pray withal; the more of that quality last named is ne­cessary for him that makes the Prayer. If any of these be wanting, either there is no such Gift, or it is very lame and defective, as Mr. Egerton observed it was not only in many of the common people (who thought they had it, when they had it not) but in some Reverend and worthy Ministers too, who know­ing they had it not, alwayes used a set Form of words both in the Church and in their private Families; And were men furnished with so much piety and lear­ning that he could hardly prefer any o­ther men before them. Pract. of Christiani­ty. p. 690. They that have a solid and clear understanding, but no more, have no such gift as this. If there be superadded a good Memory, but no quick Invention and Words ready to follow it, they will find themselves at a loss or confused sometimes, even when no body hears them. And so may [Page 406]those who have all these, if they have not withal got a habit of speaking fitly by frequent exercise. Nay, they that have this habit, if they be too bashful may find their gift fail them before a great Congregation. On the other side, we find that they who have little un­derstanding and are indued only with a Memory, are wont to pray over the same phrases, and put together the se­veral heads of a Sermon, sometime in one order, sometime in another, and that is all. As for the men of brisker Ima­gination, better Memories and whose tongues are well hung, though of a shallow Judgment; they will make a fairer shew and please themselves and others with variety of expressions and conceits, when the matter is very mean, and many times but their private opi­nions turn'd into Petitions. But as for them who beside their weak Memories and want of understanding, are of a slow invention or expression, and have only boldness and confidence equal to other mens knowledg and judgment, they will either hum and haw, or use endless tautologies, or speak non-sense, or piece it out with certain words which shall make a part in the beginning, end and middle of every Sentence. Where­by [Page 407]by it is apparent that very excellent men may wholy want this Gift, and others of little worth may have much of it, such as it is. Nay, that men of great holiness may be without it and bad men have it to ad­miration. For if they have furnished them­selves with notions, and laid them toge­therin a method, and can hold them fast so as they are disposed in their Memories, and readily run to them, suddenly produce them, fit expressions to them, and be daunted with nothing; they may ravish the people and themselves too, though they have little or no sense of God and goodness. He also that is but dull and slow, may be more ready and brisk when his fancy is heated, and find things coming faster before him and presenting themselves in that order wherein they lay in his mind; so that one part of his Prayer shall be more taking than the o­ther. But all this is nothing of the Spirit of Prayer, which consists in such things as I told you at the first, and must not now repeat, nor is it praying by the Spirit neither as any man may see that hath not a mind to deceive himself or others. It is not denyed but that when a good man seriously sets himself to meditate, the Holy Spirit of God may, and I believe [Page 408]doth oftentimes, set things in better or­der before his mind, than he could cast them into himself, and brings withal some things to his mind which he had forgot, and not only excites those passi­ons and affections in him which are suta­ble to what he intends to ask of God or thank him for, but raises him extraordi­narily above himself; and yet all this will not amount to a praying by the Spirit, but only by it's assistance. Whereby a man who hath a gift of extemporate speech, sometimes excels all that ever he delivered before, and yet no man will say he spoke by the Spirit. I must add also that notwithstanding this assistance of the Divine Spirit, it is most certain­ly true that many have spoken to the a­stonishment of their hearers (as I can prove from certain stories which you per­haps are not acquainted with) who were not moved by the Holy Ghost at all; and other Devout men who have the Spirit of God as much as any, after all their premeditation, and digesting things in their mind, have not been able to make such prayers, nor found any such assist­ance (as this man would have us depend upon) to bring that matter on a sudden to their mind which they had forgot or not thought upon. I have endeavoured [Page 409]to explain my mind as briefly and perspi­cuously as I could about this business: in which notwithstanding, I know, a man of ill will may find some word or other to snarl and cavil at. But if this man think good to continue still in that humour. I shall throw one bone in his way for him to gnaw a little upon, which may perhaps something a bate the edge of his fury. It is the words of a great man dissatisfied with many things in our Church, who writing upon occasion concerning this matter, confesses a great part of the most distast­ful things that I have said, and upon his own experience. Now what Worship, saith he, or prayers do you use? I am ashamed to name the boldness and folly of some who scarce able to utter three words orderly, will yet take upon them to babble out a tedious and stuttering prayer, where in every tenth word shall be the repeating of O heavenly Father, O merciful Fa­ther, O deare Father, O good God, O merciful God, &c. and also so foolishly packed together that their praying seems rather to be the prating of an infant, that would tell some great tale but cannot hit it. Thus far the Reformer, and yet he saith not all as my Author Dr. Ban­crofts Ser­mon at the Cross. 1588. p. 23 addes, ‘for some­times [Page 410]they will so wander either by error or malice in framing their pray­ers answerable to their affections (which are oftimes malitiously bent against any thing or matter where with they are displeased) that no true Chri­stian if he had time to consider of their meaning ought in charity, when they had done, to say, Amen.’ All this I will undertake to make good when it shall be required by such in­stances as are undeniable.

I have enough: But I wish you be not like the Fox, that perswaded others to cut off their tail, because he had none of his own.

I remember his words very well. p. 99. But he had better have been more modest; and not meddled with that story; because there is another hard by it in the same Author which will give him a flap in the mouth, worse than one with a Fox tail. It is this.

I thought we had been in more hast to be gone, than to stay to hear tales.

It is but a short one; and I will leave you to make the Moral. A Fox went to a players house and turning over all his implements, when at the last [Page 411]he found a Vizor, which made a very fair and goodly appearance without but was hollow within, he cryed out. What an Head is here! the mischief is it hath no Brains. [...]. But to be serious. Must all be supposed to want this gift, who tell you it is not so Divine as he imagines? For my part, I pretend to no thing more than what I have told you, but only this; that I think it is an Art that may be very easily taught those who are of an ordinary capacity, and which many people learn by imitation. It is plain the Boy was taught (after a fashion) in a small time, who was lately hanged for Murder; and it was no such wonder when we consider, that there is a cer­tain forme and rode both of matter and words where many men are wont to run; only they chang their place, and put them in other rank and order. And as this is very easy for some men to at­tain, so it is very delightfull when they have it, which makes them so fond of it and so much to admire it. For their Spirits being heated and their fancy warmed, many things start up on a sud­den which they thought not of before, and these surprise them with their No­velty, and withal are apt to perswade [Page 412]less cautious soules that now they are full of the Spirit of God.

I wonder to heare you talk of easiness. You mean sure of praying by a Book.

No indeed, I think it far more difficult to pray by a Book than other­wayes, if a man be able to do both. For beside the delight which it gives the natural man to have new conceits spring­ing up continually in his mind, and the joy he is apt to conceive from an opinion that then he is extraordinarily inspired from above; it is no small matter in his esteem to have the whole publike Service of God rely upon his invention, and hang upon his lips. This makes him to be a little Pope, of another kind: upon whose mouth alone the Divine worship in the Church as much depends among you, as the Di­vine faith doth on the Pope's mouth a­mong the Papist. There is this difference only (besides the number which depend on each) that he takes a long time and much advice about his resolutions of faith, and your worship oftentimes is but a sudden effusion.

I think I had best arrest you here, for I doubt you begin to take a [Page 413]delight too in hearing your self talk—

Doubt and hope and fear, all as you please your self; it shall please me well enough. Who am resolved to be unconcerned, by the help of God, in what you say, unless you talk more soberly than this man hath done, and appeare to be more in love with truth than any worldly interest. Which that we may all be let us both pray to that eternal spirit (as I find one in the late times concludes his Book. Mr. J. Goodwin's Queries questioned by one quarry, &c.) Who first moved upon the face of the waters and out of a Chaos of confusion brought forth this beautiful frame of things, and in the shape of a meek and peaceable dove descend­ed and sat upon our Saviour the head of the second creation, and who is not the Author of confusion, but of Order; that he would cast out of this Nation every evil spirit, the spirit of blindness, gid­diness and delusion, of pride and presump­tion, of contradiction and perverse dis­puting; and endue us with the spirit of judgment, sobriety and a sound mind, of humility, peace and meekness; that we may not in stead of discovering a greater light of truth return into former darkness of error, nor be spiritual Athenians and Novelists in Religion, nor deserve the [Page 414]censure which the Apostle passed on the Jews, that we are contrary to all men. And God, I hope, who is the Author of all good thoughts and designs will open some mens eyes or other, even by this that hath been said: Be it but of one or two, I shall not think my labour ill bestowed. They will see I hope in what danger they are of being misled, when one of their guides, and of no small account in his own opi­nion if not others, is so ignorant, quarrelsome and contentious. They will at least learn to be more wary whom they trust, and to read both sides be­fore they judg; and not be moved by the bold declamations of men without reason: when they clearly see the ex­ample of a Minister before them, who speaks with the greatest confidence of things whereof he hath no knowledg.

Take heed you hope not too much, and fall not into presumptions as well as he.

No, I have been caution'd against that long ago. I know as Mercury sayes in Lucian In his Charon. that the multitude are be­witcht with Ignorance and error, and their eares so stopt, that they can hardly be boared thorough with an [Page 415]augre. Ulisses could not make his fol­lowers eares more fast with wax from hearing the Syrens. You may break your heart with calling before they will hearken to you: for look what virtue the water of Lethe is said to have in the other world, the same opera­tion hath Ignorance with them here. Yet there are some among them who will suffer no wax to be crammed into their eares; that are more attentive to truth, and will see plainly how the world goes; and judg accordingly. To them I appeale, hoping they will be convinced that I have spoken nothing but the truth; and that others also will be admonished by these things to abide in the truth and make much of it, and defend it, as becomes honest men: though they draw thereby upon them­selves the hatred of others, whose Ig­norance they reprove.

As for that Gentleman whom I have dealt withal thus long, I leave the same Advice with him which Bishop White Conclu­sion of his Answ. to the Dia­logue be­tween two Divines, A. B. 1637. gave another person. That he would not be too well conceited of himself, nor affect popular applause, and so refer the handling of such matters as these, to men of better judgment, learning and [Page 416]modesty: and not give just occasion to have Solomons Sentence applied to him, though thou shouldest bray a Fool in a Mortar a­mong wheat with a Pestil, yet will not his foolishness depart from him. Pro. 27.22.

And since he hath some experience of his own forward humour, and sees that he is apt to be imprudent and desperate (as he hath confessed p. 2) I would further advise him, that when he suspects a fu­rious fit of scribling to be coming again upon him, he would desire his Wife or Servants to lay, pen, ink and paper out of his way; lest he shame himself yet more in the face of the World.