THE FIRST PRINCIPLES OF NEW ENGLAND, Concerning the Subject of BAPTISM AND COMMUNION OF CHƲRCHES.
THere having been some who have thought that the Doctrine of the late Synod Book Concerning Baptism and the Communion or Consociation of Churches is an Innovation and Apostacy from the first principles of New England. And inasmuch as it may be a special Service for these Churches, both in present and in after times, that men should know what the first Principles touching these Controversies were, Considering also, that the Lords Servants and Messengers are much wronged when Apostacy is imputed to them, upon account of the Doctrine aforesaid, and that it will be a thing very acceptable unto God (who is displeased and dishonoured when his faithful ones are traduced) that his Servants should be vindicated from such injurious Aspersions: upon these and the like Considerations, we shall endeavour (as in the Lords holy fear) to erquire what were the first Principles of New-England concerning the Subject of Baptism and Communion of Churches, and leave it to [Page 2]the Christian world, and to Posterity to judge who are the Apostates.
Now this may be done by shewing, what was the judgement of the first Fathers of this Country, touching the questions in Controversy. And in this ensuing Coll [...]ction of Testimonies we shall not mention any of those Reverend Elders that are yet surviving, nor all amongst our deceased worthies, only some of the Chief of the Fathers of this Country.
And first, concerning Baptism, we shall begin with the Judgement of that man of God deservedly famous in both Englands, viz. Mr. Iohn Cotton, late Teacher of the first Church in Boston. And what the Apprehension of that Seer was, is manifest from a Letter which is to be seen written with his own hands in the name, and with the unanimous Consent of the whole Church, which then was in this Boston to the Church in Dorchester. Because the Letter is of Ancient date, and so giveth a great light towards the clearing of the matter, which is before us, we shall therefore here insert it, word for word as it is written with Mr. Cottons own hand, It is that which followeth.
The Case of Conscience which you propounded to our Consideration, [to wit, whether a Grand Father being a member of a Christian Church, might claim Baptism to his Grand-Child, whose next Parents be not received into Church Covenant] ha's been deliberately treated of in our Church Assembled together publickly in the name of Christ. And upon due and serious discourse about the point, it seemed good unto us all with one accord, and agreeable (as we believe) to the word of the Lord, that the Grand-Father may lawfully claim that priviledge to his Grand-child baptized by right of the Grand-fathers Covenant, be Committed to the Grand fathers education; for as God in the Covenant of Grace undertaketh to be a God, unto the Believer and his seed, so by the Rule of Relatives, the Tenour of the Covenant requireth that the Believer, do undertake that himself and his Seed do give up themselves to become the people of the Lord, which he cannot undertake, in behalf of his Seed, unless they be committed to his education. 2. This other Caution also we conceive to be requisite, that the Parents of the Child, do [Page 3]not thereby take occasion to neglect the due and seasonable preparation of themselves for entrance into Covenant with God and his Church: these Cautions premised and observed, the Baptisme of the Grand-child by right of his Grand-fathers Covenant, we believe to be warranted from the nature and tenour of the Covenant of Grace by this Reason, where there is a Stipulation of the Covenant on Gods part, and restipulation of the Covenant on mans part, there may be an obsignation of the Covenant on both parts, or in plainer words, where there is an offer of the Covenant on Gods part, and a receiving and undertaking of the Covenant on mans part, there may be a sealing of it on both parts? But here is an offer of the Covenant on Gods part, Gen. 17.7. where God says, that he will be a God to Abraham, that is, to the Believer and his Seed, and by Seed is not there meant the next Seed only, but Seeds Seed also to many Generations, Isai. 59.21. And here is likewise a receiving and undertaking of the Covenant on mans part, seeing the Grand-father receiveth the Covenant by his faith, and by the profession of his faith, and by his desire of the Seal of the Covenant to strengthen his faith, and he undertaketh also the keeping of the Covenant, in bringing up his Grand-child as much as in him lies to live and walk as himself does, as one of Gods people, according to the Tenour of the Covenant, from whence the Conclusion evidently followeth, that therefore Baptisme may there be Administred to Seal up the Covenant, where the Grand-father receives the Covenant, & undertakes to bring up his Grand child in the faith and obedience of the Covenant.
Against this Argument it was objected by some what the Apostle writes, 1 Cor. 7.14. where if both the husband and the wife, who are the next Parents of the Child be unbelieving, the Child is pronounced unclean, and therefore uncapable of the holy Covenant, and of the holy Seal of it, whereto it was answered that the word in the Tex: translated unbelieving is in the Original Infidel. Now there is a difference between on Infidel and a Carnal Christian, as then was amongst the lews a difference between an Heathen and a Carnal Israelite. Though the Child be unclean where both the Parents are Pagans and Infidels, yet we may not account such Parents for Pagans and I [...]fi [...]el, w [...]o are themselves baptized, and pr [...]fess their b [...]lief of the Fundamental Articles of the Christian Faith, and live without notorious Scandalous Crime, though they give not clear evidence of their regenerate estate, nor are convinced of the necessity of Church Covenant. After this Answer given, there was no father reply [Page 4]against the point in hand, but on the contrary, some of the Brethren expressing their Consents with Addition of other Reasons, and all of them by their silence, we do therefore profess it to be the judgement of our Church, and as we believ agreeable to the word of God (such Cautions being observed as hath been mentioned) that the Grand-Father a member of the Church, may claim the priviledge of Baptisme to his Grand-Child, though his next Seed the Parents of the Child be not received themselves into Church Covenant. Wherein nevertheless we desire, so to be understood, not as presuming to judge others, who happily may be of different opinion in this point, or to direct you, who are by the grace of God given to you, able to direct your selves and us also in the Lord, but as willing in meekness of wisdome to search out the truth of God with you, and in brotherly Love to satisfy your request and demand touching this Question.
- John Cotton
- Tho. Oliver.
- Tho. Leveret
Now this is a great Testimony, for if Anno 1634. which was amongst the Primitive Times of these Churches, if then a Grand Father, such Cautions being observed, as have been mentioned, being a member of a Church might claim the Priviledge of Baptisme to his grand Child, though his next Seed the Immediate Parents of the Child be not received themselves into full Communion, if then also it were true, that there is a difference between an Infidel and a Carnal Christian as then was amongst the Jews, a difference between an Heathen and a Carnal Israelite, and that we may not account such Parents for Pagans and Infidels, and so not their Children for unclean, who are themselves baptized, and profess their belief of the Fundamental Articles of the Christian Faith, and live without notorious scandalous crime, though they give not clear Evidence of their Regenerate Estate, if this were true doctrine, Anno 1634. Posterity will see, who are the Apostates from the first Principles of New-England, whether they whose Principles are for an Enlargement of Baptisme unto some, whose next [Page 5]Patents are not fit for the Lords Supper, or they that do oppose such a practice.
There is also to be seen another large and Judicious Letter of Mr. Cottons written with his own hand to a Friend of his in England touching accommodation and Communion between those of the Presbyterian, and Congregational perswasion, The Letter bears date the 8. 11. moneth 1648. and therein Mr. Cot [...]on delivers his jud [...]ement in twelve propositions, which are too large here to be inserted, only the eighth of these Propositions being directly to our purpose, we shall here transcribe it, The words of it are these, ‘If the godly members of a Congregation formerly Subject to Episcopacy, repenting of their sinful subordination thereto shall be studious of Reformation, and shall solemnly Covenant to endeavour the same, and shall choose their former godly Ministers, into the Pastors & Teachers office, it is not necessary they should take the ignorant or Carnal members of the Parish into the fellowship of this renewed Election of their Ministers, and yet it is not improbable, but the Ministers may perform some Ministerial acts to them, as not only to preach the word to them, but (happily) also to baptize their Children. For such members are like the Church members, with us baptized in their Infancy, yet not received to the Lords Supper, when they come to Age, nor admitted to fellowship of voting in Admissions, Elections, Censures, till they come to profess their faith, and repentance, and lay hold of the Covenant of their Parents before the Church. And yet they being not cast out of the Church, nor the Covenant thereof, their Children may be capable of the first Seal of the Covenant, so in this Case, till the Parents themselves grow Scandalous, and thereby cast off, out of the Covenant of the Chu [...]ch.’
Also to a Reverend person yet surviving in this Country, who in a Letter bearing date, 4.4 Moneth 1649. propounded this Question, A Father that was in the Iudgement of Charity ‘one that feared the Lord, but no Church member, dies and gives his Little Infant to a Church member and Brother of ours, which brother having no Child of his own gladly accepts it, the question is whether such an adopted Child, may by the will of Christ be baptized or not. Mr. Cottons Answer was in these words, you [...] Case of baptizing of the Child, of one fearing God, and in his death giving his Child to a Church member, &c. I propounded to some of our fellow Elders, Mr. Wilson. Mr. Eliot. and I think Mr. Ma [...]her. and as I remember, they all inclined to the Affirmative, their ground was the Text in Gen. 17.12, 13. for mine own part I lean to the Affirmative; as you put the Case, [Page 6]the Parent of this Child was not an Indian or Pagan, but a Christian, and baptized himself, and so confederate with such a Church as we renounce not, and I do not disswade the ministring of the Seal of the Covenant, where the Covenant it self is not wanting, &c.’
Likevise in another Letter, which is extant, under Mr. Cottons own hand writing, to one who thus objected, Carnal children are not fit to renew their Covenant, whilst they are unfit to partake in the Seal of the Covenant, &c. He replies in these words, ‘Though they be not fit to make such profession of visible faith, as to admit them to the Lords Table, yet they may make profession full enough to receive them to Baptisme, or to the same estate Is [...]mael stood in after Circumcission.’
And to one who complained of being in the dark about the truth asserted in Mr. Cottons printed Book concerning the Baptisme of Infants, and that amongst other made this Objection, ‘when (said that Scrupler) a child comes to know that his Parents are no visible Saints, but appear to be contrary both in Life and Doctrine, and the children had only words and water poured on them, how came these persons to have right to it, the Parents having no visible faith to act in that Ordinance, and their children likewise being uncapable, to hold forth the acts of faith before men. He thus Answereth, Ieroboam and his wife were neither of them visible Saints, in your Sense, but appeared to be contrary both in Life and Doctrine, yet the Circumcision of their Son was not in vain to him, 1 Kings 14.13. In this Case when the faith of the Parents is wanting, and yet they still live within the Pale of the Church, though the Church be Corrupt, and the Parents also, yet here the Speech of the Apostle takes place, what though some believed not, shall their unbelief make the faith of God of none effect, God forbid, Rom. 3.3, 4. now the Faithfulness of God who keepeth Covenant and mercy to thousands, supplies the defect of the Faith of the next Parents, and maketh good his Covenant to the Children in respect of the Faith of their former Ancestors in Elder Ages.’
But against this s [...]me may object a passage in Mr. Cottons Book of the way of the Chu [...]ches, pag. 81. where it is said, where neither of the Parents can claim right to the Lords Supper, their Infants cannot claim right to B [...]ptisme, therefore it m [...]y seem, that Mr. Cottons Iudgement was not as ha [...]h been now declared. Unto this, let the judicious Re [...]der attentively hear the Answer, which is, (1.) In that very Book of Mr. Cottons, there are sundry passages which plead for an Enlargement of Baptisme, [Page 7]further then to the Immediate Children of persons in full Communion, even to the Children of such Parents who have such a faith as denominateth them Christian Believers in opposition to Pagan Infidels, yea, if there be a Christian Sponsor for the Child of a Stranger, or wicked man, it may be baptized, see the way, pag 87. 88. 106, 115.
2dly. That Book of the way was printed from an imperfect Copy, in which respect it is not to be wond [...]ed at, if there be therein some passages contradictory to Mr. Cottons known Iudgement. (3.) Mr. Co [...]ton himself was much troubled when he saw that Book come forth, and was desirous that the Reader should understand that his Judgement in such things, wherein the Book of the way is discrepant from that of the Keyes, should be sought for, not in the Book of the way, but in that of the Keys. And that no one may think that these things are Imaginary, or conjectural only, let us hear Mr. Cotton speaking in his own words in his printed defence against the Imputations of Mr. Cawdrey written not long before his death, and Published by Doctor Owen, In which Book pag. 36. 37, 38, 39. ‘The truth is (saith Mr. Cotton) that many years ago I was seriously moved by some of our Brethren and Fellow Elders here to draw up an Historical narration of our Church way, together with some familiar Grounds of the same briefly. In short time as God helped, I dispatched it, which when our Brethren had perused it; I saw they did not close with it, yet a Brother going for England, got some where, a Copy of it, and presented it to some of the Congregational way there, and I afterwards heard, neither did they close with it, and in particular not with that passage which is here recited— which since appeareth more openly, by the Asterisk put upon that passage, and upon sundry other in the Book, but before I saw that, and had only heard, that they did not fully accord, I hoped that it had met with a timely Suppression, rather then an Impression, for I heard no more of it, for two or three years after. mean while perceiving that one main point of dissatisfaction, was the Authority given to the Fraternity, I consiered more se [...]iously and distinctly of the whole power of the Keys, and expressed my apprehensions in that treatise of the Keys which our Brethren here did well accept, and so did the Brethren of like Judgement in England, and some of them were pleased to arrest it, with the Preface that is now Extant before it — This was sundry years after the Treatise of the way had been finished, and carryed to England, and as I hoped suppressed but it seemeth some Brother there— caused his Copy, which was indeed abrupt in the Entrance, and imperfect, otherwise [Page 8]to be published in print, which when I saw, it troubled me not a little, as knowing that the discrepant Expressions in the one, and in the other, might trouble Friends, and give Advantages to Adversaries. I suffered both to stand as they did, especially, seeing I could not help it, the Book of the way being published without my Consent, and both the way and the Keys past my revoking, so that if the Replier find some discrepancy in one of these Books from the other, Let him know that the Doctrine of the way, in such few points, wherein it differs from the Keys, was not mine, when the Keys was published, much less when the way was published, which was many years after, though it had been penned many years before.’
Thus much may suffice for the clearing of Mr. Cottons Judgement, concerning the Subject of Baptisme. In the same year, and in the same Vessel, with Mr. Cotton came into this Country that famous Mr. Thomas Hooker late Pastor of the Church in Hartford upon Connecticot. Now that in Mr. Hookers Judgement, the Children concerning whom the Question is, have a continued standing, and membership in the visible Church (upon which hinge the Controversy about the Enlargement of the Subject of Baptisme turns) is evident from a passage in his most Judicious and accurate Survey of Church Discipline, in which Book ‘pag. 4 [...]. are these words, in some Cases (saith Mr. Hooker) an Implicit Covenant, may be fully Sufficient, as Suppose a whole Congregation should consist of such, who were Child on to the Parents now deceased, who were Confederate, their children were true members, according to the Rules of the Gospel by professing of their Fathers Covenant, though they should not make any personal and vocal Expression of their Engagement, as the Fathers did.’ Also he lays it down for a Maxim that faederati sunt baptizandi proving by several Arguments that Confederates are the proper Subject of Baptisme, see in the same Book, part 3. pag. 11. 12. Now if they that are Confederate, and members of the visible Church, have a right to Baptisme, and if also the Children in Question are Confederate, and m [...]mbers of the visible Church, both which are affirmed by Mr. Hooker, it must needs be that in his Judgement, the Children in Question have right to Baptisme.
At the same Time, and in the same Vessel with Mr. Cotton and Mr. Hooker, there came the godly, learned, Mr. Samuel Stone, late Teacher of the Church in Hartford, concerning whom, what his Judgement was, touching the now agitated Controversies, is known from his practice in the last years of his Life. And that his Judgement was [Page 9]suitable to that practice many years before his decease, appears from a Letter of his written to the Reverend Mr. Mather of Dorchester, and bearing date June 6. 1650. In which Letter he thus expresseth himself. ‘I Conceive, (saith Mr. Stone) that Children of Church members have right to Church membership by virtue of their Fathers Covenant, it being granted that they are in Abrahams Covenant, they have Membership by Birth, Gal. 2.15. (2 dly.) God is their God, Gen. 17.7. (3 dly.) They are Branches, Rom. 11. (4.) they are Subjects of Christs visi [...]le Kingdome, Ezek. 37.25.’ Hence,
‘1. If they be presented to a Church, and Claim their Interest, they cannot be denyed, according to the Rules of the Gospel:’
‘2. Hence there hath been a sinful neglect in New-England of such Children who have either not been presented, or not Received, when they have claimed their right. I spake with Mr. Warham, and we question not the right of Children, but we Conceive it would be Comfortable to have some Concurrence, which is that we have waited for a Long Time. And I think unless there may be some Conference of Elders this year in the Bay about it, that we may see some Reason to the Contrary, our Churches will Adventure to practice according to their Judgement, i. e. take in all such Children as members, I much desire that there may be some meeting of the Elders this year, that these things may be Considered and setled in the Churches, according to the mind of Christ, &c.’ These things do sufficiently manifest what was the Judgement of Mr. Cotton, Mr. Hooker, and Mr. Stone, who all three (as was Intimated) Came into New-England in the same Vessel, Anno 1633. And they may justly be reckoned amongst the first three of New-Englands Worthies.
In the year 1635. God brought into this Country three more of our Worthies: Another Trium [...]irate not unlike the former, viz. Mr. Mather, Mr. Norton and Mr. Sh [...]pard, whose Judgement touching the Question before us, that it did Concur with the Doctrine of the late Synod, will appear from the Sequel.
As for Mr. Mather late Teacher of the Church in Dorchester, what the Apprehensions of that Reverend man of God were Concerning the present Controversie in his Latter Time is well known. The Ancients had an opinion that the [...] dying words of worthy men were Oracutous, because the Soul near its trans [...]gra [...]ion groweth more Divine. Be that Notion as it is, yet the dying Counsel of that blessed man to his Son, is of weighty Consideration. And that Mr. Mather did not take up his perswasion concerning the Enlargenent of [Page 10] Baptisme, in his last years only, but that he was of the same Judgement four and twenty years and more, before his decease, is evident from some Manuscripts of his left written with his own hand. For that Roverend Author did in the year 1645, prepare for the Press an elaborate discourse which he entituleth, A plea for the Churches of Christ in New-England, and in the second part of that discourse, which contains positive grounds from Scripture and Reason for the Iustification of the way of the Churches of Christ in New-England, there is this Question propounded.
These words are to be seen written with Mr. Mathers own hand, Anno 1645. Now if six and twenty years ago in a Book written in defence of the Churches in New England,When this Collection of Testimonies was first composed, it was but 26 years but now it is 29 years since that Book was written. and in justification of tho way of-hese Churches, it were true Doctrine that persons might have right to Baptisme for their Children, and yet themselves not be fit for the Lords Table: If six and twenty years agoe, this was written in a Book, whose whole designe was to Justifie the way of these Churches, how then can it be said, that the present pleading for such Enlargement of Baptisme is any Apostacy from Primitive Principles? Also the same thing was Asserted and urged by this Reverend Author in his Model of Church Government presented to the Synod, Anno 1647. And in the years 1648. and 1649. he did frequently in his publick Ministry in Dorchester thus instruct his people as is to be seen in the Sermon Notes left written propria manu. And in the year 1653. this Question was fully, largly, and Elaborately discussed by the same Author. Also in a Letter to a Friend, bearing date 30th. 5 Moneth 1651. He thus expresseth himself, ‘for my part my thoughts have been this long Time, that our Churches in general do fall short in their practice of that which the Rule requires in this particular, which I think ought to be thus, viz. that the Children of Church members submitting themselves to the Discipline of Christ in the Church, by an act of their own, when they are grown up to mens and womens Estate, ought to be watched over as other members, and to have their Infants baptized, but themselves not to be received to the Lords Table, nor to voting in the Church, till by the manifestation of Faith and Repentance, they shall approve themselves to be fit for the same. But we have not yet thus practiced, but are now Considering of the matter, and of sending to other Churches for advice. Help us I pray you with your prayers that we may have grace to discern, and do the Lords mind and will herein.’ So that in the year 1651. it had for a long Time been the Judgement of this Seer, that some have right to Baptisme for their Children, that yet have not [Page 12]right to the Lords Supper for themselves. But against this Testimony some may object a passage in Mr. Mathers printed Catechisme, pag. 91. This holy man was sensible that some did take Advantage from an Expression therein, to impute unto him a change of Iudgement, touching this Question, which had it been so indeed, Ad meliora transi [...]e nullus pudor, it is no dishonour to any man to change for the better, but concerning this Question, that Reverend man altered not, but was all along of the same Apprehension, wherefore knowing in his own heart that he was of the very same Judgement, when that Catechisme was written, as in his last years he was of, he therefore left a Manuscript in his Study to clear himself from such an Imputation, which for his Vindication, we shall therefore here Insert and publish. The words are as follow.
This Question who ought to be baptized being thus Answered in a Catechisme, viz. men of years when once they are converted to the Faith, and joyned to the Church, and such Infants whose Parents, both, or one of them are so Converted and joyned: The Question therefore now is, whether this Answer if sound and true, do infer that the Children of Persons Converted and joyned to the Church being now Adult, and having Children, may not be so qualified, as to have these their Children Baptized afore they who are now the Parents, be fit for the Lords Supper, or if he that Answered the Question in the Catechisme as above, do think they may, doth not this infer a change in that mans Apprehension, from what it formerly was.
Answer. It seems not at all to infer any such change
1. Because these Apprehensions are no way contrary to one another, nor at all Inconsistent: For if a man say, that the Children last mentioned may be baptized, this does not at all infer, that men of years converted to the Faith, and Joyned to the Church, may not be baptized, nor that such Infants may not be baptized, whose Parents, one, or both, are so Converted and joyned, Nor if a man Answer that such as the Catechisme speaks of may be baptized, does this infer, that those others may not, there is no Colour sure, no just ground for such Consequence, no more then if one should say, that such as are become Believers by hearing the Word preached are to be baptized, (which is a very Truth, Act. 2.41 and 8.12, 37. and 18 8.) it could thence be proved, that no Infants are to be baptized, as not being become Believers, at least not by that means of hearing, preaching, this would in no sort follow from the other, as if one should say, that such as do the will of God upon Earth shall enter into Heaven, & that [Page 13]such as feed Christ when hungry, cloath him being naked, shall be saved in Heaven, which are very true, Matth. 7.21. and 25.34, &c. doth this prove that Little Infants, and the Thief upon the Cross must not be saved, because the one through Imbecillity of Age, and the other through want of opportunity, did not perform the things mentioned, it doth not prove it at all, but that Salvation in Heaven may be the Portion of these as well as of the others; even so though such as the Catechisme speaks of, are to be baptized, it doth no [...] thence follow, but that the Ordinance may be dispensed, to the Infants of such members Children as are mentioned, and though it be dispensed to such, this is no denyal but that such as the late Catechisme speaks of, may be baptized, so that here is no Contradiction between the things Alledged, but that both may be true and consist together.
2 dly. It the words in the Catechisme had any Exclusive particle in them, there had been some more ground or Colour for the Inference; as if the words had been thus, only these, or none but these are to be baptiz [...]d? but any such Exclusive or Negative particle there is none, and therefore the Collection or Inference from them which is made is groundless.
3dly. The Author of the aforesaid Catechisme which was printed in the year 1650. had sundry Times before in the years 1646. 1648. 1649. publickly delivered his Judgement, both by word of mouth, and by writing that such Children of Church members might have their Infants baptized, though themselves were not yet received to the Lords Supper, and so divers Times again in the years following. And therefore it is not probable, that what is expressed in the said Catechisme should be intended by him to have such a meaning as is quite Contrary to what himself had publickly Delivered both before, and after, and that at sundry Times, and in several wayes.
4 ly. Other Authors of much worth for holiness and Learning, who never meant to deny Baptisme to such Children of Church members d [...]are spoked of, yet in Answer to that Question, who ought to be baptiz [...]d? or to whom is Baptisme to be administred, have expressed themselves in Terms, not far unlike to those in the aforesaid Catechisme, Mr. Balls words are these, who ought to be baptized? Answ Infidel [...] Converted to the Faith, and the Infants of one, or both Christian Parents. Catechisme. And the Assembly of Divines at Westminster, speak thus.
Quest. Ʋnto whom is Baptisme to be admin st [...]ed?
Answ. Baptisme is not to be administred to any that are out of the Ʋisivie Church, and so strangers from the Covenant of Promise, [Page 14]till they profess their Faith in Christ, and obedience to him, But Infants descending from parents, either both, or but one of them professing Faith in Christ, and obedience to him, are in that respect within the Covenant, and to be baptized. Larger Catechisme. These words we see are not farre unlike to those in the Catechisme before mentioned, and yet it were a Collection farr from their meaning, to gather from these words, that none should have Baptisme for their Children, except themselves were fit for the Lords Supper: Sure such an Apprehension was never taught nor intended by them; why then should it be thought to be Contained in the words of the aforesaid Catechisme, or deducted from them" when as the words there, and in these Reverend Authors are so very like, even so very like, that the Collection or deduction mentioned is either sound and just from both, or from neither.
5 ly. If the Parents spoken of may notwithstanding their unfitness for that Ordinance of the Lords Supper, yet be truly said to be Converted to the Faith, and joyned to the Church, then the appearance of Contradiction is at an end. Now for the one of these Qualifications, viz. That they be Converted to the Faith, if Faith be taken as it often is for the Doctrine of Faith, as Act. 6.7. Iud. 3. then it is evident that the Parents spoken of, are not destitute of this Faith, because it is required of them, that they understand the Doctrine of Faith, and publickly profess their Assent thereto; And if Faith be taken for the grace of Faith in the heart, why may they not be said to have Faith in this Sense also, seeing it is required of them, that besides their understanding the Doctrine of Faith, and their professing their Assent thereto, that they must also not be Scandalous in Life, but solemnly own the Covenant, and therein give up themselves and their Children to the Lord. And does not this imply some beginning of Faith? Can persons have all these Qualifications, and yet for all this be utterly destitute of the grace of Faith? It seems not suitable to Charity to judge so. And in as much as men have neither Faith, nor any thing that good is by Nature, therefore they that have it may be said to be converted to it, and so the Parents, the baptizing of whose Children is in Question, are not without the one of the Qualifications mentioned in the Catechisme, viz. of being Converted to the Faith. And for the other, viz. of being joyned to the Church, this cannot be denyed touching these Parents, for as much, as by means of the Covenant, which takes in Parents and Children, they have been either born in the Church, or taken in, in [Page 15]their Infancy, and so they were joyned to the Church, If so, they continue still, being neither Cast out, nor deserving so to be, and therefore their Infants are the Children of Parents joyned to the Church. And lest it should be said, that though they were in the Church in their Infancy and minority, yet now being Adult, they fall out, or go out by their own default, in neglecting the duty pertaining to the Adult, therefore for the preventing of this, it is here said, that they solemnly owned the Covenant before the Church, and therein give up themselves and their Children to the Lord, &c. So that here is a personal and publick act of their own, in respect of the Covenant, and giving up themselves and their Children to the Lord, by their own act, with a Subjection of themselves to the Government of Christ in his Church, whereby it appears that as these Parents were in the Church in their minority, and were never since Cast out, so neither are they fallen out by their own neglect; But do manifest their Continuance in the Church, and in the Covenant by their own personal act. And so the other Qualification of Parents, whose Children are to be baptized, which the Catechisme mentioned, is found in the Parents spoken of, viz that they are persons joyned to the Church, and therefore he that affirms than these may have their Children baptized, does not Contradict the fore-mentioned Catechisme at all, nor is there any thing in the Catechisme against the baptizing of these Children.
This which ha's been expressed, may be sufficient for the vindication of that Reverend and Honoured person.
We proceed [...]herefore to Mr. Nortons Iudgement concerning the present Controversy, and that the Apprehensions of that Iudicious and Eagle eyed Seer did Concur with those Servants of the Lord, which have been mentioned, is apparent, both from what himself did often publickly teach, not only in Boston, but in Ipswich; and from a Script composed Anno 1654. by that learned band, which because it is acute, clear, and distinct, (according to the wonted manner of that great Author) and because it was never yet published, we shall therefore here Insert it: It is that which follows.
Quest. Whether the Children of Parents in Church Covenant are Church members and ought to be baptized.
- 1. Children are capable of Confederating in a publick p [...].
- [Page 16]2. Children by divine Institution have Confederated, and do still Confederate in their Parents as publick persons.
- 3. By virtue of this Confederation Children are made Church members.
- 4. The membership of Children Confederating in their Parents is a distinct membership from the membership of their Parents
- 5. This distinct membership gives them a proper right unto Baptisme, so as they are baptized by their own right, and not by the right of their Parents.
Proposition. I.
1. ‘Children are capable of Confederating in a publick person:’
2. ‘That Children though they are uncepable of Confederating in their proper Persons, yet are Capable of Confederating in a publick person, appeareth.’
1. ‘From the nature of God, whose will is the Rule of Rules, and Reason of all Reasons,Bradward. de Causa Dei l. 1 Corol. 32 Polan. Synt. l. 6. c. [...]. none cuilibet Christiano imo & prophane, pro demonst [...]atione s [...]fficere debet.’
2. ‘From the Lordship of God, who may impose upon the reasonable Creature whatsoever duty he pleaseth.’
3. ‘From the nature of a Creature, which oweth unto God what duty he will call for.’
4. ‘From the nature of Community, where the absent, yea, th [...]se that are unborn, are obliged by the deed of their Pleni [...]otentiary acting Legally, 2 Sam. 21 1. Joshua 9.7, 15, 18. Ioshu [...]s Covenant with the Gib. onites bound Saul.’
[Page]Proposition II.
2. ‘Abrahams Children born in his house, and also his Seed in their Generations, Confederated in Abraham, Gen. 17.7, 25.27.’
3. ‘The Posterity of Israel entered into Convenant in the Act of their Progenitors, in Horeb soon after their coming out of Egypt, Ezk. 16 60. the abient and Children yet unborn renewed Convenant in the Act of Israel in the plains of Moab, Deut. 29.’
4. ‘Children under the Gospel Confederate in their Parents, because to the Children of Parents in Covenant, that promise Gen. 17.7. doth belong, Acts 2.39. because they are holy, 1 Cor. 7.14. which Hosmels cannot be understood to be any but external Holiness, nor can that external be reasonably interpreted of any but Church holiness suitable to the like phrase, Rom. 11.16. — Because Children are baptized, which Baptisme in the Gospel Circumcision, [...]ol. 2.11, 12. therefore in Church Covenant, but Covenant they do not no then proper persons, therefore in their publick persons, viz. their P [...]ents.’
5. ‘Either Children under the Gospel are Confederate in their Parents, or Children [...]ay not be baptized or non-members ma [...] be baptized, but children are to b [...] baptized, and non-members are not to be baptized. Therefore Children are to be baptized is with us granted, that non members are not to be baptized appeareth thus. External Baptisme is an external Seal of the external, not only of the internal Covenant. Baptisme as touching the substantial part thereof, succeeds Circumcision in place and use. As therefore Circumcision was applied only to such as were in Covenant, so should it be with Baptisme.’
2dly. ‘they who are not Subject to the Church Government, have no right to Church priviledges, of which Baptisme is a principal one. but non members are not Subject to Church Government, Therefore &c’
3dly. ‘They with whom the Church have nothing to do, have no right to that thing which can only be done in a Church as such. But with non-members the Church have nothing to do, 1 Cor. 5.12. Therefore &c.’
[Page 18] 4ly. ‘If to baptize in ordinary dispensation is only a Shepardly office act, then to be baptized is the privileage only of the Flock But to baptize is in ordinary dispensation only a Shepardly Office act, Math▪ 28.19. The Reason of the Consequence is, Shepard and Flock are Relatives, and Relatorum mutuu [...]est ambitus. The walk of Relates is of equal extent.’
5ly. ‘If Infant non-members have right to Baptisme, then Adult non-members; if so, then why may not non-members come to the Lords Supper.’
Proposition III.
1. ‘That in Children which giveth that fo [...]m of member ship maketh Children Church members, But Confederation giveth the Form of Church membership. Therefore Confederation maketh Children Church members.’
2dly. ‘That whereupon God declareth Children to be in Covenant with him to be holy, and to have right unto Church Priviledges, makes Children to be Church me [...]bers. But upon Confederation God declareth Children to be in Covenant with him to be holy, and to have right to Church Priviledges, Gen. 17. 1 Cor. 7.14. Acts 2.39. therefore Confederation makes Children to be Church members.’
3dly. ‘That which distinguishes between Children in Church Estate and Children not in Church Estate, makes Children Chureb members. But Confederation distinguishes between Children in Church Estate and Children not in Church Estate, therefore Confederation, &c.’
4ly. ‘Either Children are members by Confederation, or there may be given some other way of their membership, or all Children are non-members. But neither can there be given any other way of their membership, neither is it a true Proposition, that all Children are non-members; therefore, &c.’
Proposition IV.
4ly. ‘If Confederate Children are to be baptized notwithstanding the Parents be not members, then they are to be baptized, not by their Parents but be their own membership. But Confederate Children are to be baptized, notwithstanding their Parents be not members, as in Case of the Parents death or Censure falling out after their Childrens being, and before the Time of their Baptisme, therefore Children are baptized by their own membership; Though the membership of the Parent is by Divine Institution Instrumental to the membership of the Child, (for God institutes such only to be publick persons) yet the membership of the Child remains, though the membership of the Parent ceaseth, Pauls freedom by birth lives after his Fathers death, Acts 22.28. the effect continues, though the Instrument be extinct.’
1. Object. ‘In case the Parents themselves be not admitted to full Communion, or that they lye under offence, it seems then their Children ought not to be baprized.’
Answ. ‘We must carefully distinguish between the Parents standing as a publick person, and between the Parents standing as a single person, the Child is contained in the Parent only when he stands as a publick person, not when he stands as a single person. Hence only the Confederation, not the condition or conversation of the Parent is impured to the Child. As Adam was a publick person, in the first transgression, therefore the first transgression was imputed to his posterity, not only to him, Rom. 5.12. but in his after transgressions he was in this respect but a single, not a publick person, therefore [Page 20]they are imputed only unto him, and not to his Posterity’
2 Object. ‘Members are compleat or incompleat: Children are members incompleat, not compleat.’
Answer 1. ‘Did this distinction hold, yet that the incompleatness of Childrens membership is not such why they should be hindred from being baptized, is clear from Pedo-Baptisme.’
2dly. ‘Members are to be considered either in respect of their Communion, or in respect of their membership. In respect of their Communion they may be said to be compleat or incompleat; because Communion receives more or less, and may be enjoyed either in whole or in part, But if members be considered, in respect of membership which is the present Query, then they cannot be said to be compleat, or incompleat, because membership being a Relation doth not receive more or less, as a little member is as truly a member as the greatest, the hand of a Child is truly a hand, and member of the whole as the hand of a man.’
Object. 3. Membership is
- Immediate, viz when these that are Adult
- Confederate in their own persons.
- Mediate, viz when Infants Confederate in a publick person as Mankind Confederated in Adam.
1 Answer. ‘Though Adam Confederated in his own person. i. e. although it be the person of Adam that Confederated, yet Adam himself Confederated not as a single person, but as a publick person, so as though Adam and the Parents of Children Confederate Immediately, i. e. in their own persons, yet do they not confederate as single persons. In this notion, Scil. of not confederating as single persons, the Condition of both mediate, and Immediate members are alike.’
2dly. ‘The validity of membership depends not upon the Instrument or medium to wit, the Parents standing as a publick person in the Act of Confederation, but upon the Institution of God in Christ, the value and virtue of the effect here cannot depend, upon the medium (which is it self also an Arbitrary Effect) but upon the supream and Independent Cause, The membership of a male Child Confederating mediately, i. e. in the publick person of the Mo [...]r, excelleth the memb [...]rship of the Mother Confederating [...]mm [...]i [...]tely in h [...]r own person, because the Mother though sh [...] be a Church member, ye [...] [...]s not capable of being a member co [...]t [...]uent o [...] the Church (for only Brethren constitute a Church, in that they alone [Page 21]be capable of being the Subject of the power of the Keyes, 1 Cor. 14.34. 1 Tim. 2.12.) so as should the Brethren dye, the Sister [...] surviving could not continue a Church, but would immediately cease to the Church members, yet her male Child is not only a Church member, but is also capable of being a member Constituent of the Church.’
3 dly. ‘The Cause why a member is not admitted to such and such Communion, is not any defect in membership, but some defect concerning the qualification of the member. The mother notwithstanding her membership is inferiour to the membership of her male Child, (she being as was said before a member of the Church, but not a member Constituent of a Church) is admitted to the Supper, ye [...] the Child is not. A man or woman Adult Confederating in their own persons Immediately upon some offence possibly falling out or discovered between their Admission and intended Baptisme, may not be baptized, where as a Child Confederated in his publick person is to be baptized.’
Object. 4. ‘Children in their non-Age are by their Parents only materially, and not by themselves formally and actually members.’
Answ. ‘Members potentially are such only in possiblity, but a [...] yet non-members actually. Membership is had two waye [...], either by Confederating in a publick person, or by Confederating in our own-persons, Children are actually and formally members by Confederation in their publick person, not in their own persons: they who have the matter and Form of membership, are actually members. Children Confederate in their Parents have the matter and Form of membership, viz. Holiness, Mal. 2.15. Rom. 11 16. 1 Cor. 7.14. And Confederation in their Parents as their publick person, Gen 17. Acts 2.39. therefore Infants Confederate in their Parents w re actually and formally, not potentially Cirumcised under the Law they are actually & formally, not potentially baptized under the Gospel, therefore they are actually and formally, and not only potentially members. If Mankind Confederated actually in Adam their publick person, when they did not so much as exist in their proper persons, then may children actually existing in their proper persons, actually Confederate in their publick person. But Mankind not yet existing in their proper persons, Confederated in Adam their publick person. Peccatum Al [...]i non fuit alienum s [...]de [...]am no▪ strum peccat [...]m Adami fuit volunt [...]ium [...] modo respectu nost [...]i quia ut fuimus in Adamo nost [...]o Pa entes, it a vol [...]mus in i [...]lo, Ʋedelius de De [...] & creat qu. 105. s [...]u voluntas illa Adami fuit volu [...]tas totiu Ma [...]sae. That Speech of Thomas [Page 22]though used by him to another purpose may aptly be applyed here, peccatum Adami fuit gravius nostris secundum circumsiantiam personae non autem secundum speci [...]m. [...]om. [...].163.3.’
More needs not to be said of Mr. Nortons Judgement concerning this Subject, we come to Mr. Shepards, sometime Pastor of the Church in Cambridg in New-England, who besides his eminent abilities, was a man of much real and living Communion with God, and therefore more like to know the mind of Christ, then many others Now in a Letter of his (Dated Iune 1649. which was not three monethe before his decease) ‘he does assert and prove, that Children are members of the visible Church, and that their membership continues when Adult, and that the Children of Believers are to be accounted of the Church [...]til they positively reject the Gospel, and that the membership of Children hath no tendency in it, to pollute the Church any more now, then under the Old Testament, and that children are under Church discipline, and that some persons Adult may be admitted to Baptisme, and yet not to the Lords Supper, &c.’ The whole Letter being already published, we shall not here insert it, or any thing further concerning it, only assure the Reader that the Letter it self (even the [...]) is still to be seen, as it was written by Mr. Shepards own hand. Also the same Author in his printed defence of the nine positions, pag. 143. does maintain the Church membership of child [...]en and their Subjection to Discipline. In the year after these mentioned, viz. Anno 1636. here arrived two other of New-Englands Worthies.
[Page 23]Mr. Partriches and Mr. Rogers Concerning the Subject of Baptisme. Namely, Mr. Ralph Partrich, and Mr. Natha [...]el Rogers. As for Mr. Partrich sometimes faithful Pastor of the Church in Duxberry in Plimouth Colony, what his Judgement was touching the present controversy, is to be seen from that Model of Church Discipline, when was by him composed and presented to the Synod at Cambridg, Anno 1648. and which is still extant under the hand writing of the Reverend Author, in which Manuscript are these words. ‘The persons unto whom the Sacrament of Baptisme is dispensed’ (and as we conceive ought to be) ‘are such as being of years, and converted from their Sins to the Faith of Jesus Christ, do joyn in Communion and Fellowship with a particular visible Church, as also the children of such Parents or Parent, as having laid hold of the Covenant of grace (in the judgement of Charity) are in a visible Covenant, with his Church and all their Seed after them that cast not off the Covenant of God by some Scandalous and obstinate going on in Sin, as may appear by Math. 28.19. and 1 Cor. 7.14. with Gen. 17, &c. compared.’
Thus for Mr. Partrich his Judgement. Concerning Mr. Nathaniel Rogers late eminent Pastor of the Church of Ipswich in New-England, that his Judgement did concur with the Doctrine of the late Synod touching Baptisme; is certain from what himself did publickly teach some years before his Decease. Also from a Letter of his written to the Reverend Mr. Richard Mather some years before Mr. Rogers went to his Rest, which Letter still remains under the Authors own hand writing, we shall therefore insert, the substance of it, which followeth.
I Received a Letter with a Book from you, and do return you this Testimony of my most thankful acceptance of your kindness and good will both in your Letter and worthy Treatise of Justification, which (as yours are wont to be) is nervous, and this is compendious in a special manner, and yet perspicuous. I see my defect in Hen. Den's matters supplyed by your Diligence. To the Question concerning the Children of Chuch members, I have nothing to oppose, and I wonder any should deny them to be members. — They are members in Censa Ecclesiastico. God so calls them, the Church is so to account thew, and when they are Adulia a [...]atis, though having done no personal act, yet are to be judged members still, until after due Calling upon, they shall refuse or neglect to acknowledge and own the Covenant of their Parents, and profess their belief of, and Subjection to [Page 24]the Contents thereof, which if they shall deny, the Church may Cashier or disown them, — Now for practice I confess I account it a great default, that we have made no more real distinction, between these and others, that they have been no more attended as the Lambs of the flock of Christ, and whether it be not the cause of the corruption and woful defection of our youth, disquiri permittimus We are this week to meet in the Church about it, and I know nothing but we must speedily fall to practice. If we in this shall be Leaders, I pray beg wisdom from the Father of Lights, and him who is our Wisdom as well as our Righ cousness, I commit you to the blessed Communion of the Spirit of the Lord Jesus, and rest,
These Testimonies are more then abundantly sufficient to evince that the first Fa hers of this Country were for that Enlargement of Baptisme, which the late Synod Book pleads for, And that therefore such a practice is no [...]postacy from our Primitive Principles: yet further Testimonies might be superadded unto these, for Mr H [...]nr, Sm [...]h sometimes Minister of the Word at Wethersfield on Connecticot; In a Letter of his dated August 23. Anno 1647. (which Letter was also written to Mr. Mather) thus expresses himself, ‘we are at a Loss in our parts about members Children, being received into Communion, because it is undetermined, in the extent of it, at the Synod, our thoughts here are that the promise made to the Seed of Confederates, Gen. 17. takes in all Children of Confederating Parents, whether baptized here, or else where, whether younger or Elder, if they do either expressly or otherwayes may be Conceived in the Judgement of Charity to Consent thereunto. Now because many have Children grown up, which were born in England, who would gladly express their Consent, and desire to their Parents Covenant, only we are loth to walk alone, in the thing; we could heartily wish we had the Concurrence of your Judgement, &c.’ Thus Mr. Smith.
Likewise, Mr. Prudden late faithful Pastor of the Church in Milford in New-Haven Colon, in New-England in a Letter to the same Reverend person, which the last mentioned was sent unto, does not, only express his own thoughts, but gives Reason for his belief, concerning the Question under Agitation, with whose Testimony we shall conclude, And because his Letter is of Weighty and worthy Consideration, [Page 25]Consideration, albeit part of it (as of that of Mr. Rogers) is already published in the Preface to the Synod Book yet) we shall here insert, the substance of it, which now follows,
I was glad at the receipt of your Letters, but I am sorry to hear of such breaches in Churches, and no way nor means found out and applyed for healing, which I fear with you does strengthen the Presbyterian Objection against our Congregational way, when the writings of some for our defence, and our practice agree not in that particular. I think with you that man to be much blessed, whom God should make helpful in those things; though as he ha's but little encouragement to attempt it, so can he expect less thanks from man who possibly may have erred, but loth to be judged so to have done.—Touching your own Exercises you are not alone in them, the power of the Elders in preparing matters of offence and other things for the Church, has been much questioned by some, But me-thinks hat which Mr Hooker ha's written in the Case (Survey pt. 3d. pag. 33.) should satisfy those who are not of a Contentious Spirit, I had Conference with him about this matter, in his life time. And the Summe of what he hath now written, he then expressed and told me withal, that if a Case should be presented to the Church, in any other way by the Brethren he would refuse to act in it, unless the Church would first dispute the point which he would offer, but act against his Judgement he would not, It's true that the Rule requires to tell the Church in due order by the Officers, as he that Commands one to goe into his house, intends that he should go in by the door.
The Elders are Captains, and Leaders, and Rulers, Heb. 13.17. 1 Tim, 5.18. And therefore the Brethren must not go before them, A common Souldier must not begin or make an Attempt without the Captain. And the Elders being Leaders and Rulers, they are to order all the publick occasions, and affairs of the Church, in a comely manner which they cannot do, if the Brethren have Liberty at their pleasure to publish what seems best to themselves. Touching the desire of such members Children as desire to have their Children baptized, it is a thing that I do not yet hear practiced, but for my own part I am inclined to think, that it cannot justly be denyed, because their next Parents however not admitted to the Lords Supper) stand as Compleat members of the Church, within the Church Covenant, [Page 26]and so acknowledged that they might have right to Baptisme. Now they being in Covenant and standing members, their Children also are members by virtue of their Parents Covenant and Membership, as well as they themselves were by virtue of their Covenant and membership, and they have not renounced that Covenant, nor are justly Censured for the breach of that Covenant, but do own and profess it, and by virtue of it claim the Priviledge of it to their Children Those Children who are within the Covenant, and so members of it Baptisme cannot be denyed unto. But the Children in Question are within the Covenant of the Church, and so members of it, Ergo, Baptisme cannot be denyed to them. The assumption is proved thus, the Children of such Parents, as are within the Covenant of the Church, are themselves within the Covenant of that Church, and so members. But the Children in Question are the Children of such Parents, as are in Covenant, and so members of the Church, Ergo, they are so themselves. The Proposition is clear, because the Parents Covenant for themselves and for their Children, Deut. 29. from 10, to 16. Ezek. 16.8, 13. And God accepts both, Gen. 17.12, 13. the whole Nation is faederally holy, they are expressly said to be in Covenant with their Father, Deut. 29. not partly, or partially in Covenant, Rom 9.3▪ 4 Acts 2.39. and God stiles himself their God, as well as their Father, Gen. 17.7, 8, 9. and to have God to be our God is to be in Compleat Church Covenant with him. The assumption is evident, because else such their Parents had not had right to Baptisme, the Seal of the Covenant: but that they had right unto, and so received it, and the same right they had, the Children have, who are included in their Fathers did expressly engage and Covenant, but these not. I Answer, that the Covenant is the same, and of the same force to bind, and of the same extent, in the one as well as the other: Explicite and Implicite, are but adjuncts of the Covenant, and therefore though they are not come into Covenant, the same way that their Parents did, viz. by explicite personal Covenanting, but are taken in by the Father Covenanting for them and themselves, yet it seems to me, that they are not less truly, or less Compleatly in Covenant. The God of Peace and Truth guide us in those wayes. I rest
Unto these might have been added the Testimony of that Reverend and faithful Servant of Christ Mr. Iohn Wilson, the first Pastor of the [Page 27]first Church in Boston. But his Judgement touching the question in hand is known to all that knew him. And the Reader is referred to his dying Spee hes, concerning this matter which are inserted in the Book called New Englands memorial. (pag. 183. 184.) which because they were amongst the last words of so holy a man, cannot without great sin be despised or disregarded. Also we might have mentioned the Judgement of Reverend Mr. Norris; which that it did Concur with what hath been expressed, is to be seen from the Records of the Church in Salem, viz. in their Records of the 24th. of the first Moneth: And of the 9th of the fifth Moneth and sixth Moneth, Anno 1654. Likewise we might have produced the Judgement of Mr. Philips sometimes the faithful Pastor of the Church in Watertown, but the Reader is for that referred to the Preface in the Synod Book.
Also that some godly and Judicious of the Congregational way in England, are for a greater Latitude in the point of Baptisme, then our dissenting Antisynodalian Brethren do acknowledge, is manifest from what [...]undry Learned men of that way have long sinc [...] published.
For Doctor Owen in his review of Sc [...]asm [...], pag 134 thus expresses himself, ‘I am so far from confining Baptisme subjective y to a particular Congregation, that I do not believe that any m mber of a particular Church was ever regularly baptized; baptisme p [...]cedes Admission into Church membership as to a particular Church, the Subject of it is professing Believers and their Seed, as such, they have right unto it, whether they be joyned to any particular Church, or no, suitable to this Judgement ha's been my Constant and uninterrupted practice.’
Likewise Doctor Nathaniel Homes in his defence of Infant Baptisme against Mr. Tombs, ha's these words, (pag 193.) ‘for baptizing of Believers Infants, several Churches of us do hold, that we may baptize them, though neither of their Parents be of our particular Churches. Baptisme as we conceive being an Admission into the universal v sinle Church, &c.’ And again, (pag 217.) Mr. Tombs having made this Objection, ‘that the baptizing of Infants ha's occasioned on u [...]ne [...]essary dispute about baptizing the Infants of believing Parents, that are not members of gathered Churches. I never (saith Doctor Homes) perceived the world troubled with this dispute, divers Churches without dispute can practice the baptizing of such, &c.’ Thus he. See also in the same Book, 207, 208, 215. with his Epistle to the Reader. And the Collector of these Testimonies hath lately received Letters from su [...]dry eminent Divines of the Congregational way in England, declaring that the Judgement of the Elders with them is generally [Page 28]according to what hath been now expressed. By these things therefore, which have been thus far expressed, it is very manifest that the doctrine of the late Synod concerning the Subject of Baptisme is no Apostacy from the first Principles of New-England, nor yet any declension from the Congregational way. It remaineth that we proceed to the other Question about Communion and Consociation of Churches. Now concerning that, it is less needful to produce many Testimonies, that there in the Synod Introduceth not any Innovation. For some that dissented from the Answer to the first Question about Baptisme, yet in this last concurred, yea, there was an unanimous and universal Assent to the Answer given to this second Question, as the Author of the Antisynodalia American [...] does acknowledge, where (pag. 12.) it is said in the second Question we do fully agree with the rest af the Synod, in all the Propositions laid down about it together with the Proofs thereof, we shall therefore amongst our New English Worthies, only mention the Judgement of Mr. Cotton concerning this Question, which what it is may be seen largly expressed in his Book of the Keyes, pag. 54, &c. And there are those that will remember, that when that eminent Minister of Christ Mr. Mitchel was ordained Pastor of the Church in Cambridg, Mr. Cotton giving in the Name of the Messengers of Churches, the right hand of Fellowship, seriously advised him to endeavour (And that faithful man was ever mindful of that solemn Advice) that that Ordinance of Consociation of Churches might be duly practised, greatly bewailing the defect of these Churches, as to that particular, yea, Mr. Cottons heart was much upon this thing, in his latter time; foreseeing that without it, these Churches and the Congregational way could not stand; He did therefore not long before his decease, draw up some Propositions which are expressive of the way and manner of this Consociation pleaded for, which because they are (as being written by his hand, they cannot but be) of great weight and worth, we shall therefore here insert and publish them.
Propositions Concerning Consociation and Communion of Churches, tendred to the Elders and Brethren of the Church for their Consideration and acceptance according to God.
- Proposition I.
- Every true Church of Christ, viz. a particular Congregation furnished with a Presly ery▪ and walking in the truth and peace of the [Page 29]Gospel, hath received from the Lord Jesus full Power Ecclesiastical within it self, both of Liberty to receive her own members, to choose her own Officers and the like. And also of Authority to Administer Sacraments, Censure her own offenders, and restore penitents, Mat. 18 18: 1 Cor 5. Acts 6.2, &c. and 14 23. so as this Consociation and Communion of Churches ought not to hinder the exercise of this power, but only by Counsel from the word to direct and strengthen their hands, in the right Administration thereof upon all just occasions.
- Proposition II.
- Althought the Apostles of Christ were Independent on each other, and had equally the highest Power Ecclesiastical under Christ, and were led with Infallible Assistance of the Spirit in the exercise thereof, yet Paul with Barnabas and Titus went up to Jerusalem, (and that by Revelation) not only to Confer and Consult with the Apostles about his doctrine, (left he had, or should run in vain, Gal▪ 2.1, 2.) but also Consociated or made Agreement with them by mutual giving the right hand of Fellowship, to dispose the Course of their Ministry and Provision for the poor, that so they might procure the more free and effectual passage of the fruit of the Gospel, and the work of their Ministry, and therefore it may seem much rather, not only lawful, but also very profitable and needful for ordinary Elders, (and Churches though equal in Power) wanting that Infallible Assistance of the Spirit to Comer, and Consult, and Consociate or agree together about all such weighty matters, in which Counsel and Concurrences, to avoid Suspition of prejudice, and partiality, and so to expedite the free passage of the Gospel in the hands of them all.
- Proposition III.
- If when Peter gave offence at Antioch, the Apostle Paul took Liberty to rebuke him before them all, (though he was his equal in place and power) and that no doubt out of that duty of love and faithfulness, which he owed unto him and to the truth, Peter also submitting thereunto, then it may well stand with the equality of Churches out of their duty of Love and Faithfulness to admonish each other in case of publick offence, and submit to such admonition from the word in meckness of wisdom, as to the will and Authority [Page 30]of Christ, and to give such Satisfaction as the Rule doth require.
- Proposition IV.
- Out of Question, the Lord Iesus, the boad, King and Compassionate high P [...]st and Saviour of his body the Church, hath as great a Love and care of the purity, Peace and Edisocation of whole Churches, as of particular Saints as is evident by those Epistles sent to the Churches of Corinth, Galatia, and the seven Churches of Asia, to heal the publick Errors, diffentions, and other Corruptions found in them, and therefore c [...]tainly he hath appointed and sanctified some sufficient meane to preserve their purity and peace, to heal and help the evils and distempers of whole Churches, as well as of particular Believers. Now then since Apostles and other extraordinary Officers are ceased, (that had power in all Churches, and only Love remaineth) what other Ecclesiastical help is there left without infringing the power of particular Churches, but the Exercise of brotherly Love, mutual watchfulness, Brotherly Care, and Counsel? which Elders and Churches ought therefore to practice towards each other in this way of Brotherly Communion and Assistance on all just occasions.
- Proposition V.
- Upon these and other Scripture grounds and Examples, and for the ends above said, it is very meet and requisite, (according to our present practice) that when any Company of Christians intend to unite themselves into the Fellowship of a Church, or being in a Church state to elect and ordain any Elders over them, that in due time they signify their intentions to the Neighbouring Churches, walking in the order of the Gospel, if such may be had, desiring their presence, Assistance, and right hand of Fellowship, that as a Church is a City set upon a Hill, so the Acts thereof may not be as a Light put under a Bushel, but may so shine forth to all other Churches, beholding and approving their order [...]y proceedings, as they may the more readily give them the right hand of Fellowship, and walk with more freedom of Spirit in Brotherly Love and Communion with them in the Lord.
- Proposition VI.
- In such matters of publick Censure, wherein through the obscenity and difficulty thereof, or otherwise, there doth arise differences tending to dangerous Divisions and distractions in the Church, or offence to other Churches, In all such Ca [...]es it is meet and requisite that the Church proceed advis [...]d [...]y with the Counsel and Concurrence of the Elder, or Elders, with other Judicious and impartial Breth [...] of other Churches, clearing up from the Word, what is the mind and will of Christ to be done.
- Proposition VII.
- Not only in matters of Censure, but also in other Cases of Doctrine or practice, wherein for want of Light or of the Spirit of meckness and Love, there doth grow dissention in any Church (as did in the Church of Antioch about Circumsision) The Church so divided shall do wisely and safely, not to proceed to determine the Case by a Major Ʋ [...]te, to the unsatisfaction and offence of a Considerable part among themselves, or the offence of other Churches. But ought rather to bring the matter to the hearing and Judgement of other Elders and Brethren of other Churches: who being desired ought readily to meet together, and seriously (as in the fear of God) to enquire into, the Case, search out by the word, what is the mind of Christ therein, by themselves, (if present) or otherwise, by Letters and Messengers to declare to the Church, what they judge to be the Rule of Christ which they should walk by, which Judgement ought to be received with all due respect according to God, Acts 15.
- Proposition VIII.
- As there is a Brotherhood of members in the same Church, so there is a Brotherhood of Churches, being all Fellow members of Christ Jesus, and so bound to have a m [...]utal Care one of another, Cant. 8 8. It is therefore meet and requiste, that in Case any Church shall fall into any scandalous error or offence in doctrine or practice, then the Neighbour Church or Churches should Advertize, Convince, and admonish such a Church thereof according to the Rule of the Gospel. And if after due Conviction by a Neighbour Church, and again by more Churches, the offending Church as the nature of the offence and the [Page 32]respect due to a Church of Christ may require, may at length withdraw, the Church with sufficient partience will not yet hearken to their Brethren; then withdraw from that Church, or at least that part of it which refuse to be healed, such Brotherly Communion and the fruits thereof, as otherwise Churches usually do afford to each other.
- Proposition IX.
In Case any member shall be laid under Censure in a Church by the Major part with the offence of a Considerable part thereof, or when any whole Church shall seem to have Consented corruptly to such a Censure, upon Complaint of the grieved part attested by the dusenting Brethren, or in the other Case, by other credible persons, it is free, yea, requisite that other Church, or Churches, in the Spirit of meckness desire to know the Reason or their Censure, which if the Church shall clear up to be just, then the other Church or Churches ought to bear witness to their proceedings, and to perswade the Censured and dissenting part of the submit and give satisfaction. But if the Church shall refuse to give an account of the Reasons of their procceedings, or not finally clear up the Justice thereof, nor ease the grieved party, it will then be equal for any other Church to receive the Censured part to their Covenant or Communion.
For so Christ received: the blind man, after he was unjustly Cast out of the Synogogue, Iob [...] 9. The unjust acts of any Church cannot appear to be done, in the name of Christ; out rather in the abuse of his name and power, and therefore do not bind in Heaven, Clavis errans uon Ligat.
- Proposition. X.
- As it is the practise of Godly Christians in the Churches (without any Scruple, and with much Edification and increase of Love) to meet together in Covenient numbers or Families at Set times, house by house, to exercise that Christian Communion, which the moral Rules of the Gospel call for, 1 Thes. 5.11. Col. 3.16. Heb. 3, 13. and so 24. so also upon the same grounds, [besides others] it would [by the blessing of God] conduce much to the increase of brotherly Love and Unity, the spiritual Edification of many, by mutual Faith of each other, to the strengthening of the hearts and hands of one another in the work of the Lord, If the Elders and brethren of the Churches, [Page 33]did meet together, Church by Church, in Convenient numbers, at set times, (not to exercise any Jurisdiction over any,) but to enjoy and practice Church Communion by prayer together, hearing the word preached, and Conference about such Gases and Questions of Conscience, as shall be found useful or needful for the edification and Comfort, and peace of every Church, or any of the Brethren thereof, and this Course might tend much to satisfy the Spirits of divers godly Brethren, who have thought that we so much mind the distinction of particular Churches, and the duties of fellow members in the same, that we loose much of the Comfort of Love, and the Fellowship of the Spirit, which we might enjoy, and that we fall short in some brotherly Love which we owe mutually to our dear Brethren of several Churches.
- For the better Improvement of such a Conference.
- 1. It is fit that the Number of Churches so to meet, be regulated according to the nearness or distance of Churches, and as other Conveniences, or Inconveniences shall require.
- 2. For the times of meeting, it may seem best to leave it to the wisdome of each Society of Churches, to meet more frequently or seldom as they shall see Cause.
- 3. Concerning their Exercises, it is meet that the Elders of each Church where the Conference is to be held, should choose with Consent of the Church some other Elder as they see best, whom they may intreat to preach at their meeting, and also to desire some to moderate in the Conference, and agree upon such Questions as they see fit, three or four, and send them to the Elders of other Churches, at least fourteen dayes before the time of their Assembly.
- 4. For the ordering of the Time, it may be fit that the Sermon should end at Eleven a Clock, and after it the Conference follow, and continue so long, as shall be found meet and seasonable.
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself who is the Counsellour, the Everlasting Father, and Prince of Peace, grant unto all his Churches truth and Peace alwayes, and [...]y all means: and He counsel and guide the hearts of his people to discern and embrace all such wayes as himself hath sanctified, to those holy Ends. Amen.
Thus farr Mr. Cotton. And that this is according to Congregational Principles, is evident from other Testimonies; For the Messengers of an hundred and twenty Congregational Churches, who met at the Savoy in London, Anno 1658. do in their declaration of the order appointed [Page 34]in the Churches of Christ (Thesis 26.) thus declare. ‘In Case of difficulties or differences either in point of doctrine, or in Administrations, wherein either the Churches in general are concerned, or any one Church in their Peace, Ʋnion, and Edification, or any member, or members of any Church are injured in, or by any proceeding in Censures not agreeable to Truth and Order: It is according to the mind of Christ, that many Churches holding Communion together, do by their Messengers meet in a Synod or Council to Consider and give their Advice in or about the matter in difference, &c.’ And Doctor Owen (who was a great part of that Assembly) in his Catechisme concerning Church discipline, (pag. 224, 226, 227.) thus expresses his Judgement. ‘Churches being gathered and setled according to the mind of Christ, ought to preserve a mutual holy Communion amongst themselves, and to exercise it in the discharge of those duties, whereby their mutual good and Edification may be promoted. In desiring or making use of the Counsel and advice of one another in such Cases of doubt and difficulty, whether Doctrinal or practical, as may arise in any of them, Acts 15.2, 6. And from hence it follows, that in Case any Church either by error in Doctrine, or praecipitation, or mistake in other Administrations, do give offence unto other Churches, those other Churches may require an account from them, admonish them of their faults, and withhold Communion from them, in Case they persist in the error of their way, and that because in their difficulties, and before their miscarriages, they were bound to have desired the advice, Counsel, and Assistance of those other Churches, which being neglected by them; the other are to recover the end of it unto their utmost ability, Gal 2.6, 11. And hence also it follows, that those that are rightly and justly Censured in any Church ought to be rejected by all Churches what ever, both because of their mutual Communion, and because it is, and ought to be presumed, until the contrary be made to appear, that in Case there had been any difficulty or doubt in the proceedure of the Church, they would have taken the advice of those Churches, with whom they were obliged to Consult.’ Thus far Doctor Owen. Likewise Doctor Thomas Goodwin. and Mr. Philip Nye in that worthy Epistle which they have prefixed before Mr. Cottons book of the Keyes, (in which Epistle the Congregational way is truly stated and asserted, as it differs from both the extreams, viz. from Presbyterianisme on the one, and Brownisme on the other hand do declare their Concurrence with him in acknowledging ‘that an Association or Communion of Churches sending their Elders and [Page 35] Messengers into a Synod, is an Ordinance of Christ, unto whom Christ hath (in Relation to rectifying male Administrations, and healing Dissentions in particular Congregations, and the like Cases) committed a due and just measure of power suited and proportioned to those Ends, and furnished them not only with ability to give Counsel and Advice, but further upon such like occasions, with Ministerial power and Authority to determine, declare, and injoyne such things as may tend to the reducing Congregations to right order and Peace, see pag. 4. 6, 7, 10.’
Moreover, that the practice of Congregationals, ha's been according to this Profession, may be seen in the Apologetical Narration published by Doctor Goodwin. Mr. Philip Nye, Mr. Sydrach Simpson. Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Bridg. In as much as those famous Apologists (as Paul speaks concerning Iames, Cephas and Iohn amongst the Apostles) seem to be Pillars, [and worthily are they so accounted) amongst Congregationals. Since also that Apologetical Narration (though printed) is in the hands of but few with us, we shall therefore here transcribe and insert some pages of it. And therein they thus declare [see pag. 15. to pag. 22.]
And whereas [say they] the Common prejudice and exception laid into all mens thoughts against us, and our opinions is, that in such Congregational Government thus entire within it self, there is not allowed sufficient remedy for miscarriages, though never so gross, no relief for wrongful Sentences, or persons injured thereby, no room for Complaints, no powerful or effectual means to reduce a Church, or Churches that fall into Heresie, Schisme, &c. but every one is left, and may take Liberty without controul, to do what is good in their own eyes, we have [through the good Providence of God upon us] from the avowed declarations of our Judgements among our Churches mutually during our Exile, and that also confirmed by the most solemn Instance of our practice, wherewith to vindicate our selves and way in this particular, which upon no other occasion we should ever have made thus publick. God so ordered it, that a Scandal and offence fell out, between those very Churches, whilst living in this Banishment, [whereof we our selves that write these things were then the Ministers] one of our Churches having unhappily deposed one of their Ministers, the others judged it not only too suddain an act, [having proceeded in a matter of so great moment without consuiting their S [...]ster Churches, as was publickly professed, we should have done in such Cases of concernment] but also in the proceedings thereof, as too severe, and not managed according to the Rules laid down [Page 36]in the Word. In this Case our Churches did mutually acknowledge and submit to this, as a Sacred and undoubted Principle, and Supream Law to be observed amongst all Churches, that as by virtue of the Apostolical Command Churches as well as particular men, are bound to give no offence, neither to Iew nor Gentile, nor the Churches of God they live amongst. So, that in all Cases such offence or differences by the Obligation of the Common Law of Communion of Churches, and for the Vindication of the glory of Christ which in Common they hold forth, the Church or Churches challenged to offend or differ, are to submit themselves (upon the Challenge of the offence or Complaint of the person wronged) to the most full and open tryal and examination by other Neighbour Churches offended thereat, of what ever ha's given the offence. And further, that by virtue of the same and like Law of not partaking of other mens sin, the Church offended may, and ought upon the Impenitency of those Churches persisting in their Errors and miscarriage to pronounce that heavy Sentence against them of withdrawing and Renouncing all Christian Communion with them, until they do repent, and further to declare and protest this with the Causes thereof to all other Churches of Christ, that they may do the like. And what further Authority or proceedings purely Ecclesiastical of one or many Churches towards another whole Church, or Churches offending; either the Scriptures do hold forth, or can rationally be put in Execution (without the Magistrates interposing a power or another nature, unto which we upon his particular Cognizance and Examination of such Causes, profess ever to submit, and also to be most willing to have recourse unto) for our parts we saw not then, nor do yet see. And likewise we did then Suppose, (and do yet) that this Principle of Submission of Churches that miscarry, unto other Churches offended, together with this other, that it is a Command from Christ enjoyned to Churches that are finally offended to denounce such a Sentence of non Communion and withdrawing from them whilst Impenitent, as unworthy to hold forth the Name of Christ, (these Principles being received and generally acknowledged by the Churches of Christ to be a mutual duty as strictly enjoyned them by Christ as any other) that these would be as effectual means through the blessing of Christ to awe and preserve Churches and their Elders in their duties, As that other of Claim to an Authoritative Power Ecclesiastical to Excommunicate other Churches, or their Elders offending; for if the one be compared with the other, in a mier Ecclesiastical Notion, that of Excommunication pretended, [Page 37]hath but this more in it, that it is a Delivery of whole Churches and their Elders offending unto Satan, (for which we know no warrant in the Scriptures that Churches should have such a power over other Churches.) And then as for the binding Obligation, both of the one way and the other, it can be supposed to lye but in these two things.
1. In a warrant and Injunction given by Christ to his Churches, to put either the one or the other into Execution. And 2. That mens Consciences be accordingly taken therewith, so as to Subject themselves whether unto the one way or the other. For suppose that other Principle of Authoritative Power in the greater part of the Churches combined to Excommunicate other Churches, &c. To be the Ordinance of God, yet unless it do take hold of mens Consciences, and be received amongst all Churches, the offending Churches will slight all such Excommunications, as much as they may be supposed to do our way of protestation and Sentence of non Communion. On the other side, Let this way of ours be but as strongly entertained, as that which is the way and Command of Christ; and upon all occasions be heedfully put in Execution, it will awe mens Consciences as much, and produce the same Effects. And if the Magistrates Power▪ to whic [...] we give as much and (as we think) more, then the Principles of the Presbyterial Government will suffer them to yield,): do bu [...] assi [...]t and back the Sentence of other Churches denouncing this Non Comm [...]nion against Churches miscarrying according to the nature of the Crime as they judge meet, and as they would the Sentence of Chu ches E [...]om [...]nicating other Churches in such Cases upon their own particular Judgemen [...] of the Cause, then without all Controve [...]sy, this our way of Church proceeding, will be every way as effectual, as their other can be supposed to be; and we are sure more brotherly and more suited to that Liberty and equality Christ hath endowed his Church with. But without the Magistrates interposing their Authority, their way of proceeding will be as ineffectual as ours, and more liable to Contempt, by how much it is pretend [...]d to be more Authorita ive, and to inflict more dreadful punishment which carnal Spirits are seldom sensible of. This for our Judgements. And for a e [...]l evidence and demonstration; both, that this was then our Judgements, as likewise for an instance of the effectual Success of such a Course held by Churches in such Cases, our own practice and the blessing of God thereon may plead and testify for us to all the world. The manage of this Transaction, in brief was this: That Church which with others was most Scandalized, did by Letters [Page 38]declare their offence, requiring of the Church suposed to be offending, in the Name, and for the vindication of the honour of Christ, and the relieving the party wronged, to yield a full and publick hearing before all the Churches of our Nation, or any other whomsoever offended, of what they could give in Charge against their proceedings, in that deposition of their Minister, and to submit themselves to an open Tryal and review of all those forepassed Carriages that concerned that particular: which they most chearfully and readily (according to the forementioned Principles) submitted unto in a place and state, where no outward violence or any other external Authority either Civil or Ecclesiastical would have enforced them thereunto. And accordingly the Ministers of the Church offended, with other two Gentlemen of much worth, wisdom and Piety, members thereof, were sent as Messengers from that Church; and at the Introduction and enterance into that Solemn Assembly, (the Solemnity of which ha's left as deep an Impression upon our hearts of Christ [...] dreadful presence, as ever any we have been present at.) It was openly and publickly professed in a Speech that was the Preface to that discussion to this Effect, that it was the most to be abhorred maxime, that any Religion ha's ever made profession of, and th [...]refore of all other the most contradictory and dishonourab [...]e unto that of Christianity, that a single, and particular Society of m [...]n professing the Name of Christ, and pretending to be endowed with a power from Christ to judge them that are of the sa [...]e body, and Society within themselves, should further arrogate to themselves an exemption from giving account, or being Censurable of any other either Christian Magistrate above them, or Neighb [...]ur Churches about them. So farr were our Iudgements from that Independent Liberty that is imputed to us, then, when we had least dependency on this Kingdome, or so much as hopes ever to abide therein in peace.
And for the Issue▪ and Success of this agitation after there had been for many dayes as Judiciary▪ and full a Charge, tryal and deposition of witnesses openly before all Commers of all Sorts as can be expected, in any Court where Authority enjoyns it, that Church which had offended did as publickly acknowledge their sinful aberration in it, restored their Minister to his place again, And ordered a Solemn day for fasting, to humble themselves before God and men for their sinful Carriage in it, and the party also which had been deposed, did acknowledge to that Church, wherein he had likewise sinned,
So that these Godly Learned Writers, were so far from making a Popedome of a particular Church that they deemed it an abhorred maxime [Page 39]to affirme that a particular Church is unaccountable to, or not Censurable by Neighbour Churches about them; They therefore that do reject the Co [...]nsociation or Communion pleaded for, want that which is one Specifical Character of a true Congregati [...]nal man, whereby such are distinguished from Brownists and Morellians, whose Principles have ever been disowned and disavowed by Congregationals, who have also thought themselves not a little in [...]ured, when they have been represented as the same, else how have Hornebecks Summa Controversiaru [...] de Brownishis, and Bailies disswasive, and other writings, ej [...]fde in commatis been so distastful and dissatisfactory to all of that way, who understand what Principles they go upon.
Moreover that our Congregational Brethren are for such Communion of Churches as is by the late Synod asserted, is yet farr more evident from the Testimony of blessed Burroughs in his Excellent Treatise about heart D [...]visions see pag. 84. and 163. And in pag. 43, 44. There are these words. (1.) ‘Those in the Congregational way acknowledge that they are bound in Conscience to give account of their wayes to Churches about them, or to any other who shall require it, this not in an Arbitrary way, but as a duty that they owe to God and man.’
2dly. ‘They acknowledge that Synods of other Ministers and Elders about them are an Ordinance of Jesus Christ for the helping the Church against Errors, Schismes, and Scandals.’
3dly. ‘That these Synods may by the Power they have from Christ admonish men or Churches in his Name, when they see evils Continuing in, or growing upon the Church, and their Admonitions carry with them the Authority of Jesus Christ.’
4ly. ‘As there shall be cause they may declare men or Churches, to be Subverters of the Faith, or otherwise, according to the nature of the offence, to shame them before all the Churches about them.’
5ly. ‘They may by a Solemn act in the Name of Jesus Christ refuse any further Communion with them till they repent’
6ly. ‘They may declare also in the Name of Christ that these erring people, or Churches are not to be received into Fellowship with any of the Churches of Christ, nor to have Communion with one another in the Ordinances of Christ.—You will say, what if they care not for all this? Answ. That is, as if you should say, what if they be not Conscientious, what if nothing can prevail with Conscience? if you say, private Brethren may admonish and declare in the Name of Christ. This is more then if any private Brethren should do the same thing; For a Synod is a Solemn Ordinance of Christ, and the [Page 40]Elders are to be looked upon as the Officers of Jesus Christ. And again, pag. 47. he ha's these words, If it shall be said, But surely they do not agree so farr, they do not come up to these six things mentioned? To that I Answer, I do not in these deliver only mine own Judgement, but by what I know of the Judgements of all those Brethren, with whom I have occasion to Converse by Conference, both before, and since, I stand Charged to make it good, to be their Judgements also, yea, it hath been theirs and mine, for divers years, even then when we never thought to have enjoyed our own Land again. And if it be so, then let the Lord be Judge between us and our Brethren, for those loud and grievous out-Cries, there ha's been against us in this thing.’