Expelled by the Light shining forth, and the appearance of the Day.

In answer to a Book called, Innocents no SAINTS.

Published by one Edward Dodd, wherein he hath la­boured to prove Tythes lawfull, and Tithing Priests and Hirelings to be the Ministers of the Word, and the Masse-house the Church, and calls Idola­try Civility, and Heathenish comple­ments courtesie, and hath perver­ted many Scriptures.

His Deceit laid open, his Vindication made void, and his Argument confounded, and Truth laid open in all these particulars▪ for the sake of the upright in heart, who rejoyces in Truths prosperity.

By one of the Lambs followers, who makes warre against the head of the Dragon, and against the rear of the Beast. F. H.

And the Merchants of the Earth shall weep and mourn over her, for no man buyeth her merchandize, any more, Revel. 18. 11. And cryed when they saw the smoak of her burning, saying, what City is like un­to this City, Rev. 18. 18.

LONDON, Printed for Thomas Simmons, at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate, 1659.

THE man-childe which was caught up unto the throne of God, when the red Dragon sought to devour and destroy him, hath appeared a­gain in power and great glory, after the long and cruell tyranny of the Dragon, wherein she hath killed the Saints, and prevailed a­gainst them, and hath made great war, spoil and havock of the remnant of the womans seed, this 13. or 14 hundred years, aud hath compelled all both small and great (whose names have not been written in the Lambs book of life) to worship him, and the Beast, unto whom he hath given great authority to kill, and to destroy whosoever worshipped the God of heaven, that so they might be worn out, and all the earth might worship him, and feare him, and extoll him, and his authority. Now the time, times, and a halfe being near an end, that John saw the woman should be retired in the Wildernesse, she appearing again in her beautifull garments, and her heir and her seed appear­ing again after the long night of darknesse.

Now when the Lord in this the day of his power is appea­ring again, and the man-childe that is to rule the Nations with a rod of iron. Now the Dragon, Beast, Whore, and false Prophet, and all the mystery of Iniquity, Gog and Magog, and all Apostates, Deceivers, and Merchants of Ba­bylon that have traded upon the waters upon which the whore sits, they are all up in armes, every one with his weapons which he hath formed in the bottomlesse pit, is now set in array against the Lamb who is risen; the Priests, hirelings, and Babylons Merchants, who have got so great gain by Sea, they have given the first on-set in the front, of the black army of the Dragon, and this sixe or seven years hath made a great noyse, and hath raised so much smoak out of the pit, that they have darkned the ayre, and made it cloudy, and hath filled the earth with a great noise, that many have admired what the issue would be, and what the [Page 2] event might prove; but now many who have waited in pa­tience, have seen the Lamb appear, and have seen his rising in majesty, and hath prevailed; And many of them who gave the first on-set grows weary, seeing the battel goes too hard against them, and the Lamb and his followers prevail. And now comes on the tail of the Dragon as the reserve, and the rear of the Beast, among whom Edward Dod ap­pears, and he thinks to prevail, and get himselfe a name, and to do exploits; but alass, all his weapons are but the old broken bowes and the spear is that are strewed up and down the field of confusion, which we have run over and over, and trampled upon, and esteems them no more then rot­ten wood: He hath raked up those things which have been answered over and over, and that which the rest of the Dra­gons army hath vomited up, before in the beginning, he hath licked up, and now vomits it out again, and casts out floods of poysoned words, false accusations, and arrogant reproaches, and proud disdainful speeches, as though his tongue were his own; And like one of Ishmaels brood, scorn­ing and deriding at innocency, and saith, he hath laid down some of our Tenets, and named them, and shamed them. All sober people who know any thing of God, will see thou hast shamed thy selfe, and not us, in uttering forth thy fol­ly: And thy title of thy Book demonstrates what is within it, the beginning is scorn and derision, the end is folly and madnesse, and many ignorant words uttered forth from a corrupt heart and unbridled tongue, which is bent to do mischief, and to speak falshood; but lest thou shouldst glory in the old rotten broken weapons which thou hast taken up, which were formed by thy leaders, and not by thee, which we have answered again and again, and have over-run them as stubble; which answers have cleared the truth to all sober people, that they see all your weapons are but carnall, and not spirituall, and they have no might in them at all to stand against the truth, nor them who are made free by it, whose weapons are spirituall and mighty through God to beat down strong holds of darknesse, and the towers of ig­norance. Many are beat down already, and the Lamb is ri­sen, [Page 3] and upon the white horse, and a numberlesse number is following him, who rides on after him, who shall sub­due the Nations to himselfe, and break the yoke of the un­godly, and deliver the oppressed, and no weapon that is formed against him shall prosper. I say, lest thou shouldst boast, I shall return these lines in answer to thy book.

Thy book thou titles, A pair of Spectacles for a dark-sighted Quaker.

I say thy Spectacles are more like to make ones sight dim­mer, then through them to be made to see, they are such wooden ones; but the Quakers sees before thee, and beyond thee, and comprehends thee, and have received eye-salve, whereby their eyes are opened to see thy deceit, and the de­ceit of the treacherous generation with whom thou art joy­ned, and thy rejoynder and vindication of Samuel Smith, whom thou calls Minister of the Word at Cressage in the County of Satop; thy vindication of him, and thy pleading for him, will not bring much honour to neither him nor thee; and though thou and he both ioyne hand in hand in deceit, yet you shall not go unpunished.

Thou tels the Reader of wandering Planets who have left their station, who have stepped upon the Stage in the County of Sa­lop, who are come forth in this apostatizing time.

All who have a good understanding, may clearly see not onely in the County of Salop, but also in every corner of the Land, many wandering Stars that have no habitation in the Firmament of Gods power, but are tossed up and down, and are as waters, unstable, tossed too and fro with every winde; and the change of one Magistrate, or head Gover­nour will make them all change their forme; and as thou calls it, metamorphize them into another shape, witnesse the ma­ny publique Teachers, and Parish-masters, and tithing Priests in the dayes of Edward the sixth, Henry the 8. Queen Mary, and Queen Elizabeths dayes, and now of late in the Bishops dayes, when the Magistrates voted down the Bish­ops, all or most of the Priests denied their Fathers, and their institution; and though they ordained them Mini­sters, yet they denied them, and now are got into their [Page 4] seats and Benefices, and there thy Reader may see the me­tamorphosed changelings, and the apostates; and I do be­lieve the County of Salop abounds with such like; and they have been on the Stage long, and have acted such a part in every generation, as would please the present Authority, or power, whether they were Papists or Protestants, Prelati­call or whatsoever; but F. D the Exit will come, and when the day appears, the beasts must go into [...]heir dens again: and thou confesseth you live in apostatizing times; thou that art among the Apostates, and in the apostatizing age and time, would accuse others: Nay, thou must hold thy peace, and leave pleading for Apostates, and for the fashi­ons of the heathen which hath got up since the dayes of the apostacy, which the whole scope of thy Book is full of no­thing else; and we cannot permit or allow them who are in the time of apostacy, and who are one with the Apostates, which have wandered after the Beast since the dayes of the Apostles. I say, we cannot allow such as you to be Judges; for we are come out of the apostacy, and to before the A­postates, and to before the wandering Stars, and thou hast mist it much that tells the Quakers are they. Edward, I tell thee, we are come to the everlasting Gospell again, and have received it, and it's the power of God, which was to be, and is to be preached again to the Nations after the a­postacy.

And as for the Book called Malice stript & whipt I have seen it; and the spirit of thy Mr. Smith, whom thou calls Reverend, thou hast elevated him as high as the Pope; but E. D. what is the reason thou reverencest him so much as thou doth to thy Reader? And in the tenth page thou saist, many souls de­pend upon his Ministery; and thou blessest God, for the worke of God you enjoy in that Congregation. Thou hast extol'd him too highly, or else he hath wronged thee grievously; for thou saist thou hast profited much by him: Thou mayest call to minde a certain time, when he preached (as you call it) out of the 13 of Luke, and when he spoke of the parable of the man that planted a Vineyard, and 3 years looked for fruit; and Sam: Smith, whom thou so adores, said, he had sought [Page 5] for fruit from your Congregation this 7 yeares at Cressage, and had found none, he shall be an evidence for me against thee, that thy glorying of him is vain; and it's manifest he is one the Lord sent his Prophet to declare against, who hath run, and the Lord never sent him, therefore he hath not profited you at Cressage at all; lean souls are they like to be that depends on him.

In the first observation, as thou calls it, thou hast ex­tracted the heads of Samuel Smiths Book into five particulars, which thou saist we are ashamed to an­swer, or else know not what to say for our defence. I say unto thee, boast not, when thou putst on thy Armour, but when thou putst it off; for the vi­ctory may be doubtful.

THe first particular, That the Nationall Ministers doth main­tain the true worship of God, and the Doctrine of Christ ac­cording to the revealed will of God.

Answ. So saying, and so doing were something; the true worship of God is in spirit and in truth, which is not loe here, and loe there, nor in outward observations, but in life, in power, and in truth: But to be brief, both the doctrine and practice of the Nationall Ministery in generall, is con­trary to the Scripture, which thou calls the Word of God; (as for instance) their sprinkling of Infants, their teaching men to swear, and calling it part of the worship of God, which is contrary to the doctrine of Christ, who said, swear not at all. Their singing Davids Psalms put into meeter, by Poets and Ballad-mongers, singing them in their invented tunes, which pleaseth the carnall minde; Their studied dis­courses, which you call Sermons, invented from the strength of naturall wit, and not speaking as they are mo­ved by the holy Ghost, which the Ministers of Christ in all ages did.

[Page 6] In these, and many other things which I could instance, they are out of the Doctrine of Christ; And in a word, your whole worship differs both in matter and manner, from the Saints worship in the primitive times.

But seeing we have denyed the Nationall Ministers divers years ago, and have laid down our grounds and reasons to the world, wherein we have charged them, that their pra­ctice is contrary to Scripture; unto which grounds and rea­sons, not one Parish-master in England hath yet vindicated themselves these sixe years. And unto that Book called The Grounds and Reasons why we deny the Priests, if the Reader be not satisfied concerning them, there he may see how they erre, both in Doctrine, and practice, contrary to Scrip­tures.

To the second and third Particular.

That the present government of the Nation is the Ordinance of God; and that the Ministers bringing offenders before the Magi­state is not persecution.

As for the present government of the Nation, the lawful­nesse thereof is not in question by us; but many who are go­vernours, and should be Executors of the Law, have acted contrary to Law, (being stirred up by the Priests, who bite with their teeth, if one put not into their mouths) and hath caused the just to suffer by giving judgement against them, in their wills, contrary to Law, or else according to those Lawes which hath been made in the will of man, in the transgression, under which we have suffered for the truths sake, and therein have peace.

And as for Ministers bringing offenders before Magi­strates, that is an usurped authority, to make a Minister a Magistrate; but Edward, what was the offence? because a company of people came to Cressage, and declared the word of truth in your Streets; and what if it had been in your Assembly, this was no offence in the Church of Corinth, where all might speak one by one, although its become an offence in your Masse-house at Cressage; but the Rea­der may judge in whose steps thou and thy Priest walkes; [Page 7] you have done the offence, and then accuseth others to the Magistrates as offenders; Let shame cover your lips, you impudent men. Hath not Samuel Smith in his own Narrati­on in his book, said, that William Parrat Constable, and Humphrey Dale Church-warden, according to the Ministers direction did pull down the Quakers Speaker, charging some to secure him? And others also of your own County secu­red by the instigation of the Priest, by his own confession, in the fourth page of his book.

And here he and the rest of the society at Cressage, who had a hand in this thing, are manifest to be in the steps of the Pharisees, whom Christ cried woe against, which cast out of their Assemblies, and haled the Disciples before the Magistrates; and like the envious Jewes that cryed, Help men of Israel; for these men turn the world up-side down; but you are worse then they. The Priest was the first fomenter of the breach of peace, the Constable and Church-warden his Executioners, and yet thou tells of the Quakers being of­fenders.

Now all sober people will see your envy & deceit, and that you are in Cains way, and by your false flattery and deceit, would justifie the Magistrate for your own ends, and cause them to turn the sword against the guiltlesse, which should be against the transgressor. And who was in the transgressi­on on the Reader may easily judge by that which is fore-men­tioned, and yet the Priest, and you of his Congregation would make people believe that you did not persecute; the Priest did give order to pull down the Speaker, the Consta­ble and Church-warden they acted, and secured your own Neighbours as prisoners, your own Congregation swearing against them the breach of peace, and getting them shut up into prison, and sentence given against them, and yet thou wouldst have this called equall proceedings; but to that of God in all consciences, I leave to be Judge in this things.

In the fourth and fifth Particular thou saith, We have charged to be envious and bitter, and malicious against the most e­minent Ministers of the Land.

[Page 8] Them whom thou calls eminent Ministers, hath charged us with many false things, and have written many false things against us, for which thou and they in the dreadful day of the Lord shall give an account. Envy, bitternesse, and malice is put away from us, and we envy no man, but speak the truth in sobernesse; and yet to say a lyar is a ly­ar, or a deceiver a deceiver, or an hypocrite, an hypocrite, when they are so, is neither rayling nor malice: Christ, in whom no guile was found, he said, they were a generation of vipers, and they were of their Father the Devill, who were in envy, and went about to kill him. And the Apostle was not envious when he said, O full of all subtlety, thou childe of the Devill, to one who was doing the work of the Devill; and many such workers we finde, and many venomous spi­rits who shoot out poysoned arrows, even bitter words, and these we must reprove sharply.

And those things which thou layst to our charge, take to thy selfe; for the ground of iniquity is in thy heart, from whence thou hast uttered forth all these disdainful, proud, & scornful words, of which thou shalt be convinced, and al­so reproved when the Lord searcheth thy heart, when he brings anguish and perplexity upon thee, then shalt thou confesse to his righteous judgement; and so thy five Princi­ples I have answered, which thou sayest thou hast brought into thy Booke to fill up the blancks; they had better have been blancks still, then have spoyled so much paper with thy ly­lying disdainfull scribbles, which is not worth the an­swering.

In the third page thou saist, Thou wilt restate the reputation of the Ministery of England to be Ministers of Christ; And for proof, thou hast brought Col. 1. 7. and Rom. 15. Those words proves that Epaphtas was a faithfull Minister, and that Paul was a Minister of Christ to the Gentiles; but what hath this proved as to the Nationall Priests? nothing at all; and if thou have no better proof then this to bring them into re­putation, in stead thereof thou wilt bring defamation upon them; and when thou shouldst prove them Ministers, thou proves that Paul and Epaphas were Ministers, will not the [Page 9] least in the truth see thee to be a busie-body; but fools will be medling. Then thou art offended that we call them Priests for receiving of Tythes, I say it's the most proper; for none but Priests and Levites did receive Tythes, and how long since is it, since they generally called themselves the Tribe of Levi? For never Minister of the Gospell, nor of the word of reconciliation, either received tythes, or commanded that they should be payd, neither reproved any for not paying; but said, the Priest-hood was changed and the Law was changed by which tythes were due; but thou goes on, and makes a sound argument as thou judgest, and saith, Abraham paid tythe to Melchisedeck before the Law; And thou askest how he did give it, either by the law of nature, which is called the law of Reason, or by the light within, or by re­velation.

Thou speakst thou knowst not what; where readest thou of the Law of Nature, called the law of Reason, except it be in the devised Fables and Stories of the Priests? But what doth this prove? Gen. 14. Abraham gave the tenth part of the spoyl which he had taken from his enemies, but Mel­chisedeck first brought forth bread and wine to Abrabam and his company, and greeted Abraham and his company kind­ly, and blessed him, and Abraham freely gave unto him the tenth part, Melchisedeck desired none; But dost thou judge, that if Abraham had given him none, that he would have taken by force the tenth part of the spoyl from him?

Now what doth this prove for the tything Priests of this Nation? they must first do as Melchisedeck did, if they will have Melchisedeck for an example, he blessed Abraham, and brought forth bread and wine unto him and his Army; but which of the Priests have done so, which have received tythes; which is not a gift of the people, but a forc't thing from them? If this must be thy proof for tythes by the gift of Abraham, then let the Priests cease forcing and taking them till people be freely willing to give them, and then there will be no complaint: But let us reason a little fur­ther of this matter; Would Melchisedeck have taken the tenth, if Abraham had not given it him? Or when did [Page 10] Melchisedeck, or any before the Law take away the peoples Oxen, Cowes, Horses, Sheep, pots and pans, and bedding upon which poor people lyes, three-fold, four-fold, and sometime ten-fold; that they claim, or sue people to Courts, throw them into prison till death, as many evidences we have in this Nation? Either give us a precept, or an exam­ple before the Law, or under the Gospell, or else stop your lying mouths and clamorous tongues for ever. Dost thou and the rest of the Priests think that wee are so ignorant, that we know not the originall of the tythes in these Nati­ons? a thing invented to fill the Popes coffers, and the rest of the Clergies budgets, seven or eight hundred years after the Ascension of Christ? All which Tythes and Ob­lations, and Obventions were invented in the Apostacy, since the dayes of the Apostles, and since the woman fled into the Wildernesse: And the man-childe was caught up to God, when all the world wondred after the Beast, them they had their rise▪ And when the Kings and Rulers of these Nations did drinke of the Whores cup, then they made Lawes to compell the Nations and the people therein to pay the whores Merchants; and the Popes locusts, which he sent over the Nations, to fill the earth with their deceit, which Laws stands yet in force as though they were some di­vine institution; but both the tythes and the Law by which they are compelled to be paid, we deny, and bear our wit­nesse against, as to be things which holds up the Devils Kingdome; and the Gospel which the Nationall Ministery holds up and preaches, hath no more ability in it to procure a maintenance for them, then the Papists Gospell did for them: So to be brief, the Priests hath the Popes wages for­ced by a compulsory Law, made and ratified by them who owned the Popes supremacy.

Furthermore we assert, that tythes were never due by divine ordination, but onely to the Priests & Levites in the first Covenant, nor never were commanded to be paid but in the Land of anaan; and who so upholds the Ordinances of the first Priest-hood, denies the ordinances of the second: So this commandement to pay tythes now to them, who are [Page 11] neither of Aarons, nor Levies Tribe, and by us who are not in Canaan temporall, nor of Israel according to the flesh, the Commandement by which tythes were due in the first Priest-hood, reaches not unto us. And after Christs ascension, nor one of the Apostles either comman­ded or required any such practice of the Saints, either to Colossia, Corinth, Antioch, Philippi, Pergamos, or the rest of the Churches of Asia. So that it's evident to all judi­cious men, that this is quite another thing got up in the Apostacy, which no Minister or believer ever did own who were witnesses of the second Covenant; but any who are not satisfied in this thing by what I have said, which much more I could say concerning this thing; but I refer them that are not satisfied, to a Book called, The great case of Tythes stated, published by A. P.

In thy fourth and fifth page thou art pleading for master­ship for thy Ministers, and so by thy own argument thou hast proved them out of the doctrine of Christ, who said to his Ministers, Call no man Master, neither be ye called Masters; but to oppose this, thou brings John 3. 10. how Christ said to Nichodemus, art thou a Master in Israel? And then thou vaporest, and saist, these are not the words of Mr. Baxter and Mr. Smith, but Christs. In some translati­on it is Ruler in Israel. In another, Teacher in Israel: But it may be, some who coveted after mastership as thou dost, hath put in Master for Ruler and Teacher; but grant the word Master, Christ testified that the Jewes and Pharisees that they were called of men Master, and reprehended them for it: And if he did say to Nichodemas, art thou a master? he spoke but in their language, not with appro­bation of their being so called; for it's manifest he gave a contrary command to his Disciples, and the commands of Christ did not contradict one another. And as for Ri­chard Baxter and Samuel Smith, whose works thou saith doth witnesse for them beyond thy testimony.

As for R. B. his works are manifest to be works of dark­nesse, many false lyes and reproaches he hath cast upon the living truth of God, and hath been a great opposer [Page 12] of the strait way of the Lord, for which the Lord will plead with him and you all in the day of his righteous judge­ment. And as for S. S. let his owne testimony evidence what his worke is, who said in the Congregation at Cres­sage, he had look't for fruit seven years among them, but found none: So it's manifest he is such a workman as may be ashamed of his work.

In thy sixth and seventh page thou sayest, the Pharisaical Quakers makes voyd the fifth Commandement, because they do not put off their hats to politicall and spirituall Fathers, as thou calls them; and thou heapst up a great deal of Scripture to no purpose, not one word in them all doth prove any such thing, as putting off hats either to Fathers spiritual or temporall, and so thou art a perverter and a wrester of it to thy owne destruction; and thou cites Rom. 13. 7. to prove putting off hats, render to all their dues, tribute to whom tribute; and this is the tribute of the Nation, thou saith. And the 1 Pet. 2. 13. Submit your selves to every ordinance of man, this thou bringst. Ignorant block, shew us either in plain Scripture or example from the Saints, where it is com­manded or commended, or from any ordinance of man, or else cease thy foolish clamour, and learn a bridle for thy tongue, and cease thy foolish inferences. If the Ma­gistrates had no better tribute then putting off the hat, they would soon be poor Rulers: And whereas thou callest it Civill worship, doffing the hat, and bowing the knee, I know no more civility in it, then if thou should put off thy Coat or thy Doublet to every one thou meetest with; And most of this which thou calls civility, is the most practised by them who are the rudest, vainest, and the phantastickst proud Anticks in the Nations, who are full of flattery and deceit, and vaine complements; and to a proud fellow which hath a gay cloak, or powdered hayr, and a [...] silver lace dawbed upon his cloaths, then off goes the hat, and the knee bowes, and your servant Sir, and your servant my Lord, or your most humble servant, or thrice humble servant; when if he were commanded to do service to such a one, would not do any thing materiall, but disdain him; And [Page 13] meet then with a plain man, who will not complement, and then sirrah, & unmannerly Clown, and be ready to fight; and this spirit rules the most in those men, who are so full of their Complements, that begets one another into pride and deceit, and provoke one another by their bad exam­ple into deceit, like drunkards, drinking one to another to make one another drunk, it's like thou wilt call this civili­ty too: And if thou wilt plead, it's the custome of the Nation, doffing hats, and bowing.

The customes of the Heathen are vain, and many In Is­rael who feared the Lord were not to walk after the customes of the Nations; for this deceit was not from the beginning, and who ever comes to be a follower of Christ, who received no honour of men, neither respected persons, will deny this deceit. Take him for thy example, rather then a company of Fidlers, and Roysters, and Ruffins, who are without the feare of God; and Christ who is the Saints example, he said, how can you believe, that seek and re­ceive houour one of another: So then, they were unbe­lievers who sought and received honour one of another; and wouldst thou and the rest who live in deceit, brin [...] the custome of unbelievers, and the practice of unbelie­vers among the Saints, who are believers, and follows Christ their example? I say we have no such custome, nor the Churches of Christ,

The next piece of deceit thou art pleading for, is bow­ing to one another the knee, and titles of honour, where­in the Devill hath a great hold among people. Gen. 44. 14. This thou bringst to prove bowing; Jadah and his brethren came to Josephs house, and they fell on the ground; This is an example indeed. Wilt thou take another; the same brethren of Joseph sold him when he was a boy, was that a good act? If thou say nay, I say one is as much com­manded and commended as the other; for that same that doth violence, it's the same that respects persons; but Abtaham bowed to the children of Heth; what of that? So did Joseph swear by the life of Pharaoh, and both Joseph and Abraham were good men; but they were never the bet­ter [Page 14] for these actions, neither the one nor the other: But then thou brings a Scripture, and thou saith, it must stop our mouths, Gen 49. 8. 10. And thou saith, this may teach us, if we be of Jacobs seed and houshold, to bow to the God of Jacob our King, & why should this stop our mouths? But the scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a Law-giver from between his feet till Shilo come: So he was to rule, to wit Judah, till Shilo came; why should this stop our mouths? Shilo is come, and hath opened our mouths, and the scepter is departed from Judah long since; both them that bowed to Iudah, and Iudah that was once bow­ed unto, they are both bowed under, and Shilo is set a­bove, and now he must be bowed unto, go learn what that meanes. It was answered against bowing, the second Com­mandement prohibits it, Thou shalt not bow down to them; but the answer satisfies thee not.

Thou saith, Doth this forbid civill respects, or idolatrous worship?

That which thou calls civill respect is idolatrous worship, putting off the hat, and bowing the knee to a man with a gay Cloak, or a gold Ring, or a company of Ribbons, or a long Gown: To bow downe to such, because of the attire, is respecting of persons, and idolatry; but you are fallen into a far worse state then respecting of persons; for you re­spect cloaths, and doffs your hats, and bow your knees to them with fine rayment; And let the man in vile rayment or poor attire go by without either cap or knee, and for all thy civility thou so greatly pleadest for, and courte­sie, if he put not off his hat to thee, it may be thou wilt call him Sirrah, Rogue, or Clowne, for all thy civi­lity.

Again, put on the poor man good attire, and a fine Cloak, and a gold Ring, then you change your note, and say, If it please your Worship, or like your Honour, your humble servant Sir.

Now here is not only respecting of persons, which is commission of sin, but respecting the creatures, and wor­shipping the array which is upon a mans back, which is ido­latry, [Page 15] and not civility, which is to be condemned; Yet civility and courtesie I owne, which is so in deed, and in truth; but that which the world calls civility and cour­tesie is hypocrisie and idolatry; And for Salutations, thou saith, we seldome use: and thou bringst Scripture to prove, that Christ and the Saints saluted one ano­ther.

Their salutations are owned, and such salutations are practised by us in uprightnesse of heart, and true love without feignednesse; but we cannot do as you do, bid a man God-speed, when he is not doing the worke of God, nor say Farewell to them who are in their evill deeds; nor as the world doth, with their Good-evens, and Good-morrows, and takes Gods name in vain; and if one do not answer them according to their light vaine mindes, they will fall a rayling and beating; all such spi­rits we deny, and their salutations.

In thy second Observation.

Thou saith, Do not we prove, that places of Christian As­semblies to be a Church, and thou brings many Scriptures to no purpose. Thou bringst the 1 of Kings, vers. 8. and 1 Cor. 11. For the glory of the Lord shall fill the house of the Lord. And thou answerest, and saist, not the Steeple-house, but the Church. There thou hast added to the Scripture, and divers other Scriptures thou bringest, wherein the Temple was called the house of God, and the store-hou­ses were called the house of God, Mal. 3. 10. All which Scriptures I own; but they are nothing to thy purpose; that the Temple was called the house of God, and the Tabernacle the house of God, and the Store-houses the house of God, this is granted. These were made and builded according to the command of God, wherein the Lords treasure was which fed the poor, the fatherlesse, and the widow, and the Priests and Levites that mini­stred unto him; which Temple, Priests, Store-houses and Tythes, were figures and shadows of good thing to [Page 16] come; which when the good things did come, the figures ended.

But when did God command your Idols Temples to be built? and what are they a figure of? That which thou shouldst have proved is, that your Steeple-houses where you meet, any where in Scripture is called the Church of God.

Thou and thy Master Smith art offended that we call the place you meet in a Steeple-house, and saith, take heed that no such Language be spoken again as Steeple house. Why not? Huth not these houses Steeples? But we shall call it truly and properly as it is, the Masse-house, which hath the Crosses standing upon them yet, or an Idols Tem­ple, which was dedicated for the idolatrous worship, and for the Idoll Masse, and other superstitious ceremonies; your windows full of pictures, your walls full of images, and Monks faces, and bears yet the Popish names, as St. Anthony, St. Clement, St. Dunstans, and St. Patrick, and St. Maries, and the like.

You blinde men, full of ignorance, perverters of the Scriptures, which would bring the Scripture to prove your idolatrous Masse-house to be a Church, and calls it the house of God, & Temple of God, when the first Founder was an Apostate; and you who hold it up, and calls it a Church, are of his brood, and are dead stones, which worhips in the dead house, and knows not what the Church of God is; and yet you say, to what end should we bring Scripture to prove any thing by to these men; take it not into your mouths, except you bring it for a better end, to make people believe that the Prophets and Apostles when they spoke of the house of God, and the Church of God, spoke of your Idoll-temple, or ever intended or meant your Steeple-house, or old Masse-house.

And thou saith, Few of the Ministers in England thou be­lieves henceforth will have any thing to do with us, for we are blind leaders of the blinde.

I believe they see sufficiently they have come to great [Page 17] losse, and sees their weapons have not prevailed, but are become all like broken bowes, in which there is no strength, which they may all lay downe in the field of confusion where they set their battell; but the Lamb hath prevailed, and his weapons are spirituall, and they who follow him are skilfull to handle the sword, and are able to make War with the Beast and all his followers; and many are overcome, and the rest shall be subdued, and the day hastneth greatly, that they shall melt away that hate the Lord.

And as for Christs saying, let them alone, they are blinde leaders of the blinde. This he spoke of thy generation the Pharisees, who were called of men Master, and loved greeting in the Streets and Market-places, and stood praying in the Synagogue, in whose foot-steps the Priests of England are, which Christ cryed wo against, and now they are seen to be blinde guides, and leaders of the blinde; for they whose eyes Christ hath opened, hath ceased from such, and now bears their testimony against such.

In the eleventh page thou goes on in thy blindenesse and ignorance, pleading for your publique place of wor­ship, the old Masse-house, set up by the injunction of the Pope; And you have taken their houses into your hands, and scoulds against them in it, when you are in the same nature: And thou bidst us read what conspira­tors and enemies of God use to do, in Pslam 83. 3, 4. They said, Let us take to our selves the houses of God in possession. This was spoken of the Heathen, of Gebal, Am­mon, and Amaleck, and the men of Tyre; who devoured, and destroyed, and sought to destroy the Store-houses and Synagogues that were used in the first Covenant. And thou mayest take the application home to thy selfe, and to the generation thou art pleading for: Have not the Papists good ground to plead with you in this behalf? Was not the Abbies, Monasteries, Masse-houses, Tythes, Oblations, and Obventions, Easter reckonings, Peter-pence, [Page 18] the Papists and Jesuites maintenance? And did not Henry the eighth, who was the first establisher of your Religion in this Nation, Did not he take them a­way from the Papists? and then the Priests who denyed their holy Father the Pope, got their tythes and the main­tenance, and took the Masse-houses into their hands, and the tythes and Easter reckonings: And if thou call these Gods houses, and this Gods maintenance for his Ministers which maintained Popery, Then thou hast brought all these Scriptures against thy selfe, and thou art in a great transgression; and your Schooles and Colledges which thou ignorantly callest the Schools of the Prophets, like an unlearned man, aud Schools of piety, then the Papists were Prophets, and they were pious; For these Schooles and Colledges were invented by them, and you have gotten these from them, to wit, the Masse-house, Schools, Colledges, Tythes, Oblations, the Papists maintenance, and their hire, aud this is lawfull in your eyes, and yet you will call them impious and idolators: Are not the things the same in your hands as they were in theirs? but these things are quite another thing then was in the first Covenant. These things are not to be paralleld with the Synagogues, Temples, Store-houses, Tythes under the Law, for these were in­vented since the Apostles dayes; and the Apostates, who went from the life invented them, when all wondered after the Beast, and never mention a word of the Scrip­ture, as to thinke to prove these invented trumperies; for the Scripture never intends, nor them that spoke it forth, to patronize your deceit in these things.

Object. But it may be thou maist say, Though these things fore-mentioned were set up by Idolaters, and the places were made for an Idolatrous service, and the maintenance and hire were to maintain Idolatrous Priests; but now they are converted to a better use, and they are convenient to meet in, and conveni­ent for our Ministers maintenance.

Answ. Did ever any of the Ministers or Apostles of [Page 19] Christ goe into the Iewes Temple or Synagogues to wor­ship after Christ was ascended, except it was to declare against them, and to bring people off them; or did they take the Jewish Priests maintenance, which was com­manded to be payd of God? or did the Ministers of Christ exhort the Jewes that believed, to build a Temple or a Synagogue to worship in? Or did any of the Mini­sters of Christ go into the Temples of the Gentiles to wor­ship, or into the high places of the Iews? Or did they receive the Idoll Priests maintenance, or the Jewish tythes, or eate that which was sacrificed to Idols? If nay, where is your example; I know you dare not plead com­mandement from the Lord for these things. Might not the Jewes, when they had broken down the Altars of Baal, and destroyed the Images and high places, and the beau­ty of them, have said, these are convenient places for worship, let us now worship here for conveniency; and that maintenance of offerings that was offered to Idols, let's take them, and give them to our Priests and Levites, and let us offer them unto God? If these things had been justifiable, then yours are justifiable now; but if con­demnable then, yours condemnable now; and so let your mouths be stopped and speak no more so proudly, nor bring no more such impertinent proofs and argu­ments for your deceit; for that is enjoyed that weighes you all, and can judge all your deceit.

And for Barbarisme, and Heathenisme, and Heresie thou speaks on, which layes the Lords vineyard waste, it's brought in, and dwels among you, and the fruits are manifest in most of your Steeple-houses or Masse-house as witnesse your ringing of Pans, Candlesticks, Fry­ing-pans, throwing water, and rude behaviour, which hath been used by your Church-members, as fighting, beating, punching, tearing of cloaths, ha­ling out of your Assemblies them that come in the Name of the Lord; and these be the fruits of barbarous Hea­thens, which are not brought forth any where but a­mong [Page 20] you; but it may be thou wilt call this civility and courtesie, and the tribute of the Nation: And for here­sie both in Doctrine and Worship, none are to be com­pared unto you for unsoundnesse and ignorance; for I looke upon you as the tayle of all the people in the Na­tion: And the Vineyard of God that thou speaks on, is no where layd waste so much as among you masse-house wor­shippers; for you are like bryars and thornes, scratching, rending, tearing and haling, and are as a field untilled, and as a waste howling Wildernesse, that knowes not when good comes; and that your Ministers are those proud phantastick sprits that have taken upon them to preach, who denies an immediate call. Neither are they approved of his Church which is in God, the pillar and ground of truth; but onely they are approved by man, and by the Colledges, which were invented by the Pope, where more deceit and foolish fopperies are practiced, then in any society in the Nation besides; for them that denies an immediate call, and an infallible spirit, I deny them to be any Ministers of Christ, and so doth the Church of Christ who meet in his Name; but such are your Ministers, therefore we have turned from them many years ago.

And the next thing that thou art offended at is, that a woman spoke in a meeting near [...]; what if ten had spoke, if they had spoke by the Spirit of the Lord, what offence had it been? Did not God promise by Ioel, that he would pour forth his spirit upon his Daughters, and they should prophesie? and wouldest thou stop them? And Priscilla instructed a Minister, better then any of your Parish ty­thing Priests, to wit, Apollo. And had not Philip three daughters did prophesie? And was there not women with Clement that were fellow-labourers in the Gospell? (And what though she that was in the transgression was to keep silence in the Church?) Doth it therefore follow that they that are come out of the transgression, are to be silent in the Church? Is this good Logick Edward? [Page 21] If Christ be in the male, and in the female, may he speake in the male, but not in the female? Doth not the Apostle say; the man is not without the woman, nor the woman without the man, but both in the Lord? And if the woman be in the Lord as well as the man, may not the Lord speak in her? Art thou one of them that wilt limit the Holy one? What if he speake in a dumb Asse, and reprove the madnesse of the Prophet Balaam? And if hee should doe so now, to reprove the mad Prophets that are in Balaams way, loving the wa­ges of unrighteousnesse now, as he did then? will you reprove God? He that reproves him shall answer it; and he that gainsayes either Son or Daughter, shall perish in the gain-saying. And now I come to thy third Obser­vation.

The third Observation.

THy eye being evill, thou canst not see when good cometh; and thou art one of them who watcheth for iniquity, that thereby thou mayest blaspheme the Name of God and his Truth, which thou art out of. And as for our Tenets, which thou saith thou hast na­med and shamed; thou no more knows us, nor our Te­nets, then thou knowest from whence the winde comes, and whither it goes: For all our words are as a parable to thee, and thou knowest not what we say, although thou hast catched and snatched up some of our words brokenly to quarrell with; yet we are hidden from thee, and a gulfe is between thee and us, that as thou canst not apprehend nor comprehend; but first a terrible day must come upon thee, and those things which thou hast laid down to be our Tenets, thou doubtest whether they be or no, manifest by thy owne words. If we say so, and [Page 22] if we hold so, thou had better have been certain before thou hadst shewed thy selfe too imperious and arrogant, of sham [...]ng them, when thou knowest not whether we hold them, as thou hast layd them downe in thy owne words, the shame at last will come upon thy selfe; and that rash, hasty, raging spirit, by which thou utterest forth all this mudd and dirt, every one may see in this observa­tion thy deceit manifest.

And the first thing that thy darke minde stumbles at is, that some have said, That they that have the spirit of God are equall with God.

He that hath the Spirit of God, is in that which is e­quall, as God is equall, and his wayes equall; And he that is joyned to the Lord is one sprit, there is unity, and the unity stands in equality it selfe.

He that is borne from above is the Sonne of God, and he said, I and my Father are one. And when the Sonne is revealed, and speaks, the Father speaks in him, and dwells in him, and he in the Father. In that which is equall in equality it selfe; there is equality in nature, though not in stature. Goe learn what these things mean, the understanding and learned will know what I say, and this is neither damnable nor blasphemous; but on the contrary, it is saving and precious to them that be­lieve.

And thou concludes, Though they be glorified in heaven, yet are not equall with God.

Here thou blasphemes; the Son is glorified with the Father in the same glory he had with him before the world began; the glory is in purity, equality, immor­tality, and eternity; but for thy proof thou bringst Psal. 86 8. For who among the gods is like unto our God And again, There is none like unto thee, O Lord. Here thou hast gone about to prove more Gods then one in heaven: Were the gods glorified in heaven, which were not like the living God? Or were they in heaven, which were not like the Lord? What blasphemy is this? They that [Page 23] are in heaven are like him in his image, and not like a­ny other; but in the world there are gods many, and Lords many, but that is not in heaven: There are no Gods nor Lords in the World, nor in the Earth, that is like the living God and living Lord of Heaven and Earth; And many such nonsensicall phrases hast thou uttered, and foolish impertinencies; and thou hast scarce cited one Scripture, but thou hast either misapplyed, or wre­sted, and perverted, being very ignorant and unlearn­ed; and thy Masters for whom thou contendst, will ne­ver receive much honour nor credit by thy writing, or vindication of them.

But to the second Particular, which thou calls our Tenet, is, That Christ Jesus is not glorified in his humane nature, and that he hath no reall body, but his mysticall bo­dy, and this thou sayest is contrary to Scripture, Luke 24. 3. 9. and Acts 3. 20. John. 17. And in this thou sayest, we are shamed.

I say thou hast shamed thy selfe, and hath cited these Scriptures to no purpose at all, none of all these speaks of humane nature, or mysticall body; but this I say, he is glorified with the Father in a spirituall body, in the same glory he had with the Father before the world be­gan. And the same Jesus which was of the seed of A­braham according to the flesh, and the Sonne of God ac­cording to the spirit, is glorified with the Father, the man Christ Jesus, he is set downe at the right hand of God; But if thou meane by humane, a carnall body, or the same flesh that thou hast on; deal plainly with us, and nakedly, the next time thou or any of thy Tea­chers writes, and prove us by Scripture where the Church is called his mysticall body; or where hast thou got these new coyned words, as Humane nature, and mysticall body? Correct thy pen, and let no such Po­pish phrases come in print again, least thou shame thy selfe more, instead of shaming of us: And thou con­cludes, If any say here he is, or there he is on earth, believe [Page 24] them not. Where learnedst thou this Article of Faith, I pray thee shew me? Is he not both in heaven and earth? How should he restore the earth and all things into their purity, if he must not be manifest in the earth? What, wilt thou confine him to, or in a place? Doth not his presence fill heaven and earth? Is he divided from his presence?

But may be thou wilt say as thy generation doth, that [...]e is in the Earth by his spirit, and in Heaven in his bo­dy or person, distinct from his spirit. If so, then you divide Christ, and a person without a spirit, and not Christ. I will aske thee a question; No man hath ascen­ded up to heaven, but he that came downe from heaven, the Sonne of man which is in heaven. Where was the Sonne of man, or the man Christ when this was spoken?

If thou canst see this, thou mayst be ashamed to shut Christ out of the Earth, or from among his Saints, where his presence, his arme, his hand and his power is, which is not divided from his body; but I know thou art deafe, and canst not heare what I say, and thou bringst Heb. 10. 12. After he had offered one sacrifice, sate downe at the right hand of God; that is sayst thou, In his humane nature. The shame is come upon thy selfe, who have added thy owne imagination; and let all see whe­ther the Scripture speak of humane nature; but thy folly must be manifest to all.

Thy third Particular that thou names, and as thou sayest shames, is, If wee say wee are without sinne, we deceive our selves. Thou hadst better have enquired perfectly whether we said so or no, before thou hadst undertook to reprove upon so doubtfull termes, and thou bringst Prov. 20. 9. For who can say my heart is clean. He can say so, and speaks truth, whose heart God hath cleansed by the blood of Christ from all sinne: And then thou bringst Job 9. 20. If I justifie my selfe, my owne mouth shall condemn me. That's true, we justifie not our selves, neither [Page 25] selfe; but denies selfe, and selfe is condemned, and Christ, Gods righteousnesse is become our Justification. And then thou bringest Paul, Phil. 3. Not as though I had already attained, but follow after, that I may apprehend. What of that, he was in his growth, and was come to that which was perfect, and did believe to attain to the stature of a perfect man.

And then thou saith, I tell you, you are not perfect, your contempt of the Ministers of Christ, and perverting the Doctrine of Christ are Characters of sin.

That shall stand for thy selfe, and thy Masters whom thou art joyned with, who sets up Popish trumpery in stead of the Ordinance of Christ; and sets up the pre­cepts of men, introduced in the apostacy, for the do­ctrine of Christ: And then thou concludes, the Scripture hath concluded all under sinne, all in the first Adam; but I hope the Scripture doth not conclude all under sin in the second Adam: Neither doth conclude him under sinne that's borne of God, who sins not. And if thou make any such conclusion, thou gives thy verdict for the Devill, and not for God: then thou saith, I am not pleading for sinne. Thou art pleading for nothing else but for sinne and imperfection, in which the Devils king­dome stands; and thou saith, thou hast cause to cry out, O wretched man that I am! So thou hast indeed; hast thou repented of thy drunkennesse? How long is it since thou fell off a bridge, being drunke, and broke thy leg; but it is like, for thy good service done to thy Master, in wri­ting this lying scrole, he will give thee an absolution for that transgression.

The fourth Particular which thou calls our Tenet, is, That we deny the Scripture to be the Word of God; And thou hast brought many Scriptures to prove that they are; but they are as impertinent to the thing as thy for­mer about the Steeple-house, or Masse-house. Thou hast brought many Scriptures, Jer. 37. 8. how they are cal­led the words of the Lord, who ever denyed that? but [Page 26] the Word spoke the words, and the Word is greater. 2 Tim. 3. 16 All Scripture is given by divine inspiration. I de­ny that, some was spoken by the Devill, and some by wicked men, and I hope thou wilt not call that divine inspiration. Then thou may be wilt conclude, I deny the words of Paul to Timothy. I deny the word Is, it is an addition of the Translator, which word alters and varies the true sense of that Scripture; but all Scripture given by inspiration of God is profitable for doctrine, &c. But knowest thou no distinction between inspiration and tradition? You have it by tradition, the Saints by Inspiration. It's a dead letter in it selfe, and as it is spo­ken from your mouthes, who speak of it by tradition; but from them that were inspired, the living Spirit ut­tered forth living words; But what is all this to prove the Scripture or writings to be the Word of God. And then thou cites 2 Cor. 4. 7. Not handling the Word deceit­fully. What doth this prove? nothing at all; and all the rest that thou hast cited is nothing at all but what we have answered over and over many times, wherein all that have any understanding in the knowledge of God are satisfied: That which thou shouldst have proved by the Scripture, is, where the Scripture, or writings, or Letter doth title it selfe the Word of God. It is grant­ed, they are the words of God, and the words of holy men inspired: So in thy owne words, I say, take thou notice, though thou art confident and presumptuous, in this thou hast shamed thy selfe, and not us. The Word was before either Scripture, Writings, or Bible was; which Word is greater, and gave them a being: And thou that wouldst set that which is brought forth by the Father, above the Father, art out of the Apostles wis­dome, speaking a similitude; He that builds a house, receives more honour then the house. Now to call the Scripture the Word, is to give as much honour to the house, as to him that builded it; but in a word, this I say, what ever the Scripture doth testifie of it selfe, or [Page 27] call it selfe, that I owne it to be: And if any man call it another thing, it shall testifie against him; and so thou that hast gone about to set up the words which were spo­ken in time, above or equall with the Word, that was before all time, art ignorant, and unskilfull in the knowledge of GOD, and silence would better become thee.

[...]n thy last page thou saith, How often have wee beene called upon to make known to the world what we hold, and what we would have: Are you the men raised for this worke alone, to cry downe Tythes, and speake against Lace, Ribbons, and Cuffs? Is there nothing for us to do? Then this declare, that this is enough to salvatior.

I say, we have declared more in the world then they do receive or believe, and we have published the will of God to the earth in many things, and shall further pro­ceed as the Spirit of the Lord shall direct us: And that which we would have, is, the old Dragon chayned, and the Whore burnt with fire, and her Merchants cease tra­ding, and the Sea dried up upon which she sits, and up­on which the Merchants trade, and the Beast and all the false Prophets, Deceivers and Antichrists, which have all had their rise since the Ascension of Christ, we would have these be all shut in the pit again; and we would have the Lamb to reigne, and the everlasting Gospell to be preached again, the power of God; and we would have the Earth restor'd, and we would have everlasting righ­teousnesse to reigne in the hearts of people, and Lawes, as at the first, and Counsellors as in the beginning, who iudge not for rewards; and Ministers, such as were in the Primitive times, who will preach without tythes, hire, and set wages, and without the Popes maintenance. If thou canst receive these things, I will shew thee further it may be hereafter, if I heare any more from thee. And we are the men that are raysed up for the worke, to declare against pride in the ground, and also in appearance, as against Lace, Cuffs and Ribbons; And thou askes, if there [Page 28] be nothing else: Hast thou denyed these, and the spirit that leads to the abuse of Gods creatures? when thou hast, I will sh [...]w unto thee there is something else to be done; but if thou doe not obey that which is manifest, why wouldst thou know more to adde to thy condemnation: And we do not say, that casting off these things is all that is required to salvation, thou bids us declare if there be any thing else; so I shall, so that thou hearken to it, and receive it, else thy condemnation shall be greater then if I had written nothing. Thou must repent of all thy sinne, and turn from it, and know the judgement of God for it, and deny thy selfe in every thing, and lay downe thy life also, and take up his Crosse daily, and be crucified to the world, and cease from all thy owne words, actions and thoughts, and come to taste of death before thou come to know him to live in thee to be thy salvation; canst thou do this? when thou witnesseth this done, then thou shalt know further what God requires; but a terrible day will come upon thee before these things be fulfilled in thee; though thou be more stout then thy fellowes, I know him who is able to break thy horn which thou hast exalted against the Lamb of God and his followers.

And for thy exhortation, Not to seed on husks, take it home to thy selfe, for thou hast nothing else to feed up­on; the words of the Saints at best, without the life, or else some innovated invented trumpery of the Whore, of whose Cup thou hast drunke, makes thee speak forth all these venomous words against the life and power of God in his people.

And thou concludes, What thou hast written is as much for our Conversion as Refutation.

Both alike indeed, for thou hast done neither; but hast conceived and brought forth winde, and spent thy time for nought. Alas poor man, tellst thou of convert­ing, who art not come out of the grosse pollutions of the world? who art not ceased from drunkennesse? and art [Page 29] pleading for Masse-houses, Tythes, Hirelings, and Po­pish inventions, and art offended; we should declare a­gainst Ribbons, Cuffs, and Lace; what shouldst thou con­vert any too, except to make them two-fold more chil­dren of the Devill? And what shouldst thou refute or confute? Wilt thou say one shall not steal, and dost thou? Wilt thou say one should not be drunk, and art thou? And wilt thou say one should forsake all sin, and yet say none must be cleansed from it, but be alwayes miserable men, and wretched men? Be first convinced in thy self and turne from thy evill deeds, before [...] more of converting or refuting any; For [...] when all shall be set in order before thee what thou hast done, and thou shalt receive according to thy work; and thou shalt then see this worke to be for condemnation, which thou hast published against the truth, which shall and must abide for ever; and they that are in it, and walk in it shall be everlastingly happy, and shall reigne as Kings and Priests unto God for ever; and over all deceit, and shall live to confound all the children of falshood in all their devices.


This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal. The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission.