WE have considered this Epistle, stil'd, Just Measures, &c. Subscribed G. P. Directed to all Dissatisfied among Friends, as well to such asarenot seperated, as to such asare; Now though we are in no actual Seperation, yet being truly Dissatisfied, takes occasion to Write as followeth. Who's the Author, is not so much as what is said, considering it seems approved by the Eldership, being sent abroad amongst the Society, as such Books are, as are allowed for Orthodox, there­fore in speaking to it, we shall direct our selves to them, not doubting, but as it was Wrote for them, their mind's included; and unto whom can we so well apply our selves for Relief as unto such as have been the Occasion of our Trouble, by bring­ing into the Society against the Minds of their Bre­thren, things for which there appears no necessity, and then requiring compliance under the Notion of [Page 4]Eldership; now if we apply our selves to them, then chiefly to such as seems to be as the Head, and no­ting Causes by their Effects, this seems setled at Lon­don, from hence came our Circular Letters that have disturbed Us. And therefore as things are Model­ed from hence must come our Voice of Peace if ever Our Divisions be cemented, or our Disatsfaction re­moved; but by the way pray let Us know how this headship, as to Government, came to be fixed here, to Us in our Case there seems but two wayes, that is either by the choise of the People, or by the Choice of the Eldership, Now if the Society as such have devolved the Government upon you that reside here: Pray when was this Agreement made, for 'tis needful to know at least the Original of this Constitution, if we are to be concluded by it? But if this Headship be fixed here by the choice of the Eldership, Pray then give Us leave to Capitulate for that Just Li­berty we had in the Society, before those things was run to this height of Disatisfaction, as formally be­ing made terms of Communion, whilest We have not gone from Ancient Principles, nor into any thing that is Immoral or evil; if you deny Us this, We must complain 'tis not Government, but something of Ty­ranny or Injustice at least that is introduced.

That the Headship as to Government is setled here appears further by the Power being lodged here, for the conveneing of Our Yearly Meetings, as well as by their Assembling here, 'tis here our Orders have their strength, by the Approbation of this confluence. You know Christ Our Lord tells us that His King­dom is not of this World, and therefore we conceive His Government is not set up by such wayes and means as uphold Worldly Power, (address to Prote­stants [Page 5]Page 232 to 244) if so, we cannot think this is Christs Government, nor like it, which is so like that of the World, both for Contrivance and Order, and if not his, it ought at best to be Subservient to his; on which account You ought to be Cautious that you intrench not upon his Prerogative, who is Lord of Conscience; in short, the Government con­tended for by you, you must own to be our Lords or yours; Our Lords it can not be, for 'tis certain he uses no other force to uphold his Government, then to set it up, and if he alwayes took it by Pa­tience and Suffering, he will never uphold it by force and Violence (address to Protestants 203 Page to the end of that Head) and therefore when any thing of Violence is used, we may be sure it is none of his, and if not his, then it must be yours, and as yours, you ought not to impose new things, for that de­stroys that freedom we ought to have and injoy as we are a Free and Voluntary Society; but you tell us this belongs to the outpart of the Church as we are a Civil Society.

What's this but to say we may have one sort of Power to Govern the out Part, and another to guide the in; this makes way for Carnal and Unregenerate Men (if they have but a good share of natural parts) to be our Rulers, but you know Christ our Lord tells us, if the Inside be clean, the outside will be clean also, and truly all Conformity that wants Convicti­on or Perswasion can have no acceptance with God, so that all this is but to please Men; but if you will in­sist that those things are Civil, however you may then take away as well as add, and to take away those things so far as they have given occasion, cer­tainly seems needful; otherwise you may transmit [Page 6]your errours to Posterity, for 'tis on those Founda­tions you lay for Government, that some others will build, and considering that all Builders on a Religious score, since the Apostasie, have fail'd at least in your judgment; or else how could you have Justified our dissent; on this account you ought to have been the more cautious; for error in the beginning, either in the matter or manner of bringing in things, must be the Ruin of a Christian Superstructure; so that tho the Foundation may have been good you may have professed, yet Hay and Stubble may be Builded, for when you tell us those are the lesser things about which the Difference is, (Page 16) they cannot be Fundamentals, and when you say they concern not God. Faith, Conscience or Religion (Page 4 and 5.) they can be but your Opinions and Judgements; those can have no higher Original then that of Mans reason, which as it is subject to be short, vary, and miscar­rie, such things as those ought not to have been brought in as the Lawes of the Medes and Persians; but Cautiously and by way of Probation. Therefore having now the proofe of the evil consequence of being Possitive, where at most you ought but to have recommended: You would do well to Repeal, or at least suspend next Meeting what has been found so fatal to the Unity desired, otherwise you may shew more Power to Rule, then prudence to Govern.

What you have said to others in Address to Protestants (page 62 to 92) both what should be made Terms of Communion, and what should not, deserves your most serious Consideration; for cer­tainly we want nothing of what (you say there) is suf­ficient for Communion, and if so it is unreasonable to [Page 7]shut us out for want of that which ought not to be made such, and that in your own sense, pray be consistent for that passage in Page 93 deserves not only your Con­sideration but Application, and that is if we consider the matter well, I fear (sayes our Author) it will be found that the occasion of disturbance in the Church of Christ, hath in most Ages been found to lie on the side of those that had the greatest sway in it, which in our Age is but too true. We observe this Epistle dif­fers much from other Books writ on this Subject, and allowed by the same Authority, if we should Con­front this with them they would be like Babel Indeed, whilest the same thing is pretended, 'tis true we are wil­ling to search to the quick, but as we would not make the breach wider then needs must, we shall not at this time compare them together, hoping how e­ver that the softness of the Stile of this bespeaks a dislike at least of former severities; what is right we are willing to acknowledge, and shall as readily note; What is wrong, concluding it is dangerous to endea­vour to heal our hurt slightly; and how ever our en­deavour may succeed or be resented; we can in our Defence say, that not only our Arms but our Hearts are open and free to receive you, and what you say as we meet it in the truth and you in the Spirit and power of our Lord Jesus Christ, and can add sin­cerely, that our desire to seek and find that seemless Garment of Our Lord you speak of and not only find it but that we might have it put on as in our beginning, whilest Travellers together in Spirit for the true Rest, which so many have set out to find but miscarryed; but as this Seamless Garment stands not in Identity of an Opinion, nor in the Unity of those Formallities of Form, which respect more the [Page 8]manner of doing of a thing then the thing it selfe; therefore all the Builders that have sought it here have erred and will still err, as they thus seek it. For as Truth is contrary to Error, so is Gods way to Mans in this matter, as our own Appollogies for Liberty do abundantly shew; Now if the Unity to be sought for stand not in Opinion nor in those Formallities of Form as above, it can only be found in the Spirit, where there is a sincerity to God; this Our Lord owns when ever 'tis according to the degree of Light af­forded. And that is it which should be seriously en­quired after, and this you can hardly deny Us, upon your own Concessions in this Epistle, if you are real, other if you deceive Us. You confess (Page the 2) that we are one with you in Judgement in the Worship and Doctrine of Truth, &c. Now if by Worship you mean a true serving of God, and if by Doctrine of Truth you intend, as you ought, what concerns God­liness, it can hardly be but you must allow. Us found in the Faith, and Conscientious in what we doe; for 'tis impossible we should be faithful in the greater Things, and false in the less, on this account you ought to allow our reason or indulge us; and there­fore considering this, and several other confessions in this Book, may we not hope for the future, that Dissenters and such as are dissatisfied may meet with a more favourable aspect from you, and not only their seperate Meetings Visited in Love by you, but your Meetings free and open in your minds and be­haviour to such as come in Love and good will to Visit You, tho in some things disatisfied with your proceedings; for what can keep up the Difference more then your strangeness, and how can it tend to accommodation, the Thing you pretend to desire [Page 9]and seek? Or how can it be Truth, or like it, to keep up this Difference and distance to Severities? if not some time to rudeness; and that with such as agree with you, in your own sense, in all the Essenti­als of Religion, and truly serve God for any thing you know or can prove to the contrary, Pray con­sider of it.

But to proceed; You speak of the Government to remain in the hands of the Eldership, but if Our Lord makes this Eldership, does he not also make the sub­mission that's necessary, for we will say we are for good Order, and if the Elders set us a good exam­ple of humility and selfe-denyal, by which we find it is not themselves they Preach, but Christ and his Government they desire should be set up, and not their own: We can readily give them double Honour, by following them as they follow Christ; and we are sure none of you ought to desire more.

Now if We are only to follow you, as you are the followers of Christ, we ought to be sensible of it, and that must be either by an outward Rule, or by an inward; if the first, set it forth; if the latter, stay till we are convinced or perswaded, this is fair, here blind Obedience is excluded, and it ought not to be denyed; on this foot we inquire how we must know this Eldership on whose Conduct we may safely rely; for where there must be a dependance, there ought to be a certainty; pray mind that, to us then as a free and voluntary Society, there seems but two wayes to know Eldership, that is chiefly after the Spirit, or after the flesh, that is, after an inward or an outward way; now if we must know our Eldership after the Spirit, then indeed no matter of your setting them forth, for as we are not to believe every Spirit, a liberty [Page 10]of Examination is reserv'd, and where that ought to be, a choice must be allowed, on this Foot it follows beyond contradiction, we are not Obliged to new things but as convinced or perswaded; and as this is according to Gods dealing with us in our Spiritual travel, so it agrees with our Imbodying as a free and voluntary Society; and grant but this great Truth and Ancient Testimony, and as it may prevent further disatisfaction, which to us seems greater then you either know or are willing to grant, so it may also help to cure our Division; and how you should deny this to such as was of the Communitie, till your Exclusion by Imposing your Opinions, and do still agree with you in the Worship and Doctrine of Truth we can not tell; but if you will say that we are to know our El­ders chiefly after the flesh, that is after an outward way; I Answer. Not now to insist on the weakness and insufficiency of this way, we do say then as we are a free and voluntary Society, it is needful, as well as our right, not only to be satisfied in them, but have our choice of them; and then not only know who they are but where they reside, that as on the one hand on occasion we may have recourse unto them, so on the other, that thereby we may be secured from being Imposed upon by pretenders.

But if you deny the first, and cannot secure Us in the latter; as we have neither choice in the Eldership, nor power to refuse what is wrong, there is no way left to prevent Ignorance and slavery; at this door, that thing you call Priest-craft entered, and that di­stinction of Clargy and Laity, which must be wrong and insupportable in you, what ever it is in others, we in­treat you to consider of it in a cool Mind.

But if you will say (as in this Epistle Page 14.) that [Page 11] the Government must remain in the hands of such as God hath made Eminent in the gathering of his People, or to this effect; then we Answer, as the case stands, as specious as this is, it is not like to cure our Divisi­ons, but rather to increase them, this being a way to make as many Parties as such Persons to head them, some for Paul some for Apollo, &c. For 'tis sure under this Notion there is and have been many Elders amongst such as are dissatisfied who may on this foot plead an Equal right to Govern; what then remains this way except you'l fly to that of Antiquity or Number, but as those have been denyed by you to others, we conclude you should not use it; then what's to be done to cure our Divisions and prevent further Disatisfaction? nothing can do but our Elders [...] to throw down their Crowns at the feet of Jesus, that it may appear to be his Government and not their's that's sought. Thus Christ our Lord advised in the case of Difference and contest, the Elder is to be as the Younger, and him that Rules, as be that serves, and he that will be the greatest, is to manifest it by being Servant to the rest; for 'tis cer­tain the Government of Christ our Lord in this case is Uniform and does not vary (tho Mans may) using no other way to preserve then he did to gather, for if force, strife, contention, or violence were right at any time, he could as well use it at first as at last. But as he always made his enterance by Patience and Suffering in his Servants, as well as in himself, it is certain he rules in humility overcoming difference by the same way; it is true in the breaking forth of his power, his Servants are mostly Humble and Patiens of necessity, because they have nothing to depend on but him; here many have been preserved that have fail'd when they have known any thing of an [Page 12]overcoming, as tho the Lord was changed because the state of things had changed them; No he is the same still, and therefore no other way but to deny self, and to throw down your Crowns at the feet of Jesus; an hard thing indeed to flesh and blood, but that's no matter, flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, and as this was never known truly done in any Refor­mation, so it has certainly been the ground of Divisi­on, or at least a cause of it, and of that enmity that hath attended Seperation; and 'tis now become your Tryal; O that you could consider of it that so the evil and enmity at least in our different apprehension and dissatisfaction might be avoided; pray consider, more light may spring up, as it hath done before, and God may make use of whom he pleases without your leave, and you ought rather to wait for his judg­ment, then to conclude you are Judges of it, or of whom he sends or makes use of; verily you cannot be too litle in your own eyes, what ever you are in others, pray direct all to Christ, that he may be known by way of preheminence in all, the Elder of Elders, and be content to leave all with him, as in the beginning, with out setting limits to his appearance, of your own devising, knowing most certainly that none that come truly to him, can do any thing against the Truth, and they that do not so come can do nothing for it; and once for all, tho what is evil and Immoral may and ought to be rejected, yet considering what gives ac­ceptance with God can not be Imposed, let not a mis­led Zeal, on this specious Pretence, to make the Church as large as the Profession, or by adding of new Or­ders and Rules, under pretence to help such as are not fatihful, be a cause to reject such as are; for as you deal with such as are Conscientious, you will [Page 13]be dealt with; and to be plain with you, if in this case you do not Judge your selves, you will be Judged by some that succeed, as truly as you have judged some that did go before; for if you would but honestly re­flect upon your selves in that glass of equal Liberty, which you have held to others, you might certain­ly see some thing of the same Image, that you have re­proved in others. And why should you take this ill or think it hard or strange, for you must come through those Difficulties and Straits, where others have fail'd or you must miscarry; but if you have not seen them it is certain you have not escaped them; then must you be as truly tryed, (as others have been) by them whom the Lord may send; you know what our Lord said, There are first that shall be last, and there are last that shall be first. You know those hired into the Vineyard some came sooner then others, but those that came last he paid first, this was not faulted whilest those that came first, did still expect to receive according to their Estimate of their time and Service (as they said) in the beat of the day, but when it proved otherwise, all was wrong with them, what was written, was writ for our Learning; therefore set Self but really aside; and the Scripture will be found as true in our day as formerly. For to be plain, 'tis the overvaluing of your selves and the work, that makes the mistake, but as I should speak to the intelligent, on this point shall not much further proceed at this time, but take notice, what is here said, is not to depress any beneath their true vallue or raise any above it in the eyes of others, but only that confidence in the flesh, wherein so many have stuck and miscarried, might be wasted and consumed, that so the Lord our God might be exalted over all, for he that is come, is yet to come, [Page 14]and as His goings forth hath been from Everlasting, they still continue a Riddle to the Rulers, and a Mistery to all that is but born after the flesh; and what is flesh in a Religious sense, but Form, the external part of Religion; for all that stick here, as they are great in the formality of it, so such never fail'd to persecute them thats born after the Spirit, because such being dead with Christ to the World, and the Rudiments of it, have not nor never had that value for out­ward things, which those born after the flesh have; yet alwayes brings forth the righteousness of those things. It was thus betwixt Israel and the Prophets, and be­twixt the Jewish Rabbys and our Lord, and hath been much after the same manner in the Reformation, and is after the like sort now, if you could but consider it; but for all this we can allow of Elders, and that in a good sense, for some have been before others in testifying to Gods appearance in our day, and have been made instrumental to turn some to righteousness in the hand of the Lord; but what then, did such find out the Truth by their skill or cunning, or the Lord fought them out, did such send themselves or the Lord sent such into his Vineyard? If the Lord, is not all owing to him? and cannot you be content with what honour he gives, without seeking honour by bearing witness of your selves, for the noise you make bears witness you are not satisfied with that ho­nour he gives, he that hath the Bride is the Bridegroom and in the best sense you can be but Preparers for him, and as you have directed all to him you ought to be willing to present all to him, for his increasing must be the decreasing of the Instrument; for every true Preparer for Christ does certainly know as he comes to take the Government they must decrease, therefore [Page 15]do they constantly throw down their Crowns by affirm­ing that their Service must be fulfilled to every one that comes to know the sufficiency of our Lords Government. And cannot you be glad and rejoyce in this? If not, all is not right yet; for all the true Preparers for him, as they know this, ought to be so, they both seek and defire it, but such as are so much in the formallitys of Form, they cannot, because they gather to themselves that is to their own Opinions and Judgments; grant that you have Preached to us Spiritual things; What then, do you desire we should know you after the flesh for that? If so, all is not yet right; if God have made some of you Instrumental to turn some to Righteous­ness, and in that sense may be termed as Fathers, do you expect our Obedience as Children? But if so, consider you are under as great or greater Oligation to us as Children, you should neither provoke not re­quire of us what we can not give for Conscience sake; for it would be cruel to seek to destroy what you might be Instrumental to beget; 'tis not a telling of us the cause of Difference is not matter of Conscience whilest we know, and do most surely believe other­wise; beware what you do for if by your distinctious of what's Civil and Religious, you destroy the tender­ness of Conscience or reject such as are Consciencious, your Work must suffer loss by the fire, which must try your Works as well as others, and indeed it seems already kindled, the occasion of all this noise is for the saving of what is combustible; whereas had you builded nothing but Gold and Silver, had you in­fisted upon nothing but what had been Essentiall to Society and good Order, there would have been no occasion of this noise; because then there had been no fear or hazzard of loss; nay such things would have [Page 16]stood the tryal and com'd through rather purified then hurt.

But to proceed, is it not sufficient for you that we can acknowledg your Seniority, as above expressed and can testifie that it was Truth you directed to in the be­ginning, but we must alway be under your Tutorage? is it not honour enough for you, that we can say that having come to him with our hard Questions, whose Fame you spread, that we have found the truth of his suj­ficiency even beyond your report; and now being come to him, and heard him our selves, would you have us back again to depend on you? Nay verily, rather give us leave frankly to say, we believe not now because of your word, but because we have heard him our selves, whose word is Spirit and life, and by what he has done for us, we're sure he only can compleat what remains; and if your distinction of greater or lesser things were necessary (Page 15 and 16) we find he does not only teach the great things, which you seem to grant as our Duty towards God, but the lesser things also, as our Duty toward Men, which you seem to reserve; and what is this for, but that we might alway remains Pupils, that thereby we might be at your Devotion? but to be plain, if that distincti­on be needfull, we find he teacheth the lesser things first, and greater and greater as we are fitted to re­ceive them; for 'tis impossible we should know the greater and not the less, or be faithful in the greater, and false in the less; for he that performs his Duty to God cannot fail of paying what he owes to his Neigh­bour; and indeed to know this Spiritual Birth, by which God can in a peculier sense be truly called Fa­ther, is needful for every individual Soul; otherwise our Title and Interest is surer to this World and the [Page 17]things of it, then it is to that which is to come, when that and the things of it, as it is more excellent so it can only be more sure, this being but the Figure, and that the Substance; give us leave to say then, where the sufficiency of Christ the Son of God is known, such cannot depend on you, nor any Man; and they that know not your Service fulfilled by him, knowes not yet his sufficiency, nor is Christ yet truly formed in them as they ought to know him: And truly every one that confesses that Christ is come in Spirit, and does not wait and hope to have your Service fulfil­led as Instruments, they have either taken up a false Rest, or yet never came into the true travel. And whilst you seem to grant him the greater things and not the less, it is because you do not know the great­er, or at least are not subject to the Government of Christ as you ought to be; bear with us for the know­ledge of his sufficiency, and the necessity for every one [...]w it, that professes his teaching that con­fesses to his inward and Spiritual Appearance with love to him and those that so profess, makes us thus to speak, and constrains us thus to Judge, that if one dyed for all then all was dead, and he that you have directed to in the beginning, being that one thas dyed for all, for this very end, that such as are quickied and live by him, should not live to themselves, nor to you, nor any other by way of Dependance, but only to him, that dyed for them and rose again, to Govern them so, that tho there may have been a time that we might depend on Men as hoping to receive from them, but this was in our Pupillage and Childish states, and as that must be passed through, or Spiritual Manhood can­not be known, so where Spiritual Manhood is truly known, such cannot know you nor any Men any more so, [Page 18]or after that manner; Christ has been known after the flesh, but now as we are chiefly to know him after the Spirit, on this account therefore we are to know Men no otherwise; thus much by way of Preface.

And now we will come to the matter of Diffe­tence as you have stated it; (Page 2 and 3) that there is a Difference (you say,) is but too plain, for 'tis come (you say) to a Seperation, as well to Places of Worship, as in matters of Dis [...]pline, &c.

Answer, This is well done to grant that those that have Separated have Places for Worship &c. For this fairly demonstrates, those did not Seperate to be at liberty in the flesh, as has been too commonly reported and objected; no, no, that was not the mat­ter; Places for Worship shew such intend to serve God still, and Discipline denotes such intend still to take care of what business belongs to the Society; this we think might bring you nearer them then you are, if well considered, what you confess, [...] that they'r one in Judgement with you in the Worship and Doctrines of Truth, and therefore if you be true, we cannot see how they should be wrong, Con­sider of it.

But to Proceed: The ground say you of this great Dissatisfaction upon which so great a distance has been raised (you say) meaning those that are Dissatisfied) is requiring your complyance with some practices relat­ing to Discipline, particularly womens Meetings, and coming twice before Men, and Womens Meetings about Marriages before admitted to be Solemnized among us, Some of you (that is disatisfied) thinking that there's no Service for Womens Meetings at all, others no Ser­vice in their being distinct from Mens Meetings, at least no necessity for either, and therefore no necessary com­plyance [Page 19]to be required, and insisted upon (by us) but every one left (in this matter should have been added) to their Liberty in Christ, least Imposition and Forma­lity should prevail among us, as they have done in o­ther Religious Societies in this (sayes the Author) I think I have truly and fairly stated the case on your side (that is dissatisfied) and given your Objection to our Practice and the reason why you dissent from it, &c.

Answer, Other things beside this have given occa­sion of dissatisfaction: For Instance that Possitive Limit of a Years time in the case of Marriage, which certainly is of evil consequence, and against both truth and reason, as might be demonstrated. But this a­bove being as the Original or first beginning of the pre­sent Dissatisfaction, that and the rest may be included; in the success of this, we may grant the Objection is bet­ter made then answered a great deal, but yet it is neither fairly nor truly stated at least in the first part; for you ma [...] the Objection [...] alike against Mens and Womens Meetings, and against coming twice to the Mans as well as against comming twice to the Wo­mens; whereas you do very well know that the Objecti­on does lie chiefly against that of the Women, and your imposing of it: and not against that of the Men, nor against coming twice before them, if occasion be for satisfaction; for you know speaking generally they did not refuse to come to the Mens Meetings in the case of Marriage, till you peremptorily made that of the Womens as Essential or as necessary as the other, and would not allow of the Former without the Latter, tho our Antient Practise and Order mutu­ally agreed on and established among us: From hence came Dissatisfaction by Imposing those things, and thereby invading our Liberty as a free and Voluntary [Page 20]Societie, and therefore if hence forward some refused to come to the Mens Meetings in the case of Marriage, it was because you had injoyned the Other with it, and this being wrong in their Judgement, at least as Imposed, it made the whole wrong, for to injoyn what's wrong with what's right, so that the one cannot be done without the other, make the whole act wrong. Now for you to Argue (as in the 7 Page) that such refuse to come to the Mens Meetings because they will not satisfie Parents, nor clear former ingagements, is disingenious and unfair; for you have both lost the Objection, to witt, Womens Meetings, and also make it the same thing to deny imposition, as it is to go from an Antient Practice allowed of by us, wherein you misrepresent the honest Dissenter as well as abuse the unthinking Reader. &c.

As to the latter part of the Objection 'tis more fair; we may take it beginning at those words, at least no necessity for either, that is, there is no necessity for Women Constant Meeting either by themselves or with the Men for Government in our Church or So­ciety. Now the Term necessity on which the weight of the Objection lyes or depends, you have not spok­en to it, nor so much as taken notice of it in your Answer; therefore we may safely say the objection, tho of your own Stating, is abundantly better made then answered; but as the weight of the matter ly­eth in this part, you ought to have taken it in; for you must grant there is a necessity for Womens Meet­ings as above, or there is not; if there is a necessity for Womens Meeting to be universally imposed upon the Society, then you ought fairly to have set that out, for do that and truly demonstrate or prove it, and then complyance will follow of course; this had been [Page 21]a short and clear way to have done your business; but if no necessity for Womens Meetings as above, then you ought to have granted that, because it is need­full to know on what foot you proceed with us; for if no necessity for them, and yet you insist to require our Complyance, then the Issue and decision of this great Controversie, must stand in the valliditie of your Authoritie, to require things to be done by us, for which in truth there is no necessity that they should be done.

Observe, Either of these Points truly proved deter­mins the controversy, but both cannot be insisted on and as both cannot be pleaded, if you can prove nei­ther; in plain terms you must be guilty of Imposing and seeking Lordship over your Brethren, or something that relates to it, which cannot agree with our Prin­ciple and that free bottom we seemed to Imbarke together in

Now we do most surely believe you can prove neither of the Points above, and might here give some reasons for it, without taking any further no­tice of what you write; but least you or any should say we evade your Arguments because we cannot Answer them, we will consider them first; though truly they seem in our Judgment so far from proving any thing to the matter, that they appear more Arti­ficial then Genuine, more like drawing a Curtain be­fore the work of Imagerie, then fairly setting out the truth; or like such as have bad Causes of Titles to manage; nothing is more dangerous then comming to the Merrit of the Cause, or truth in the matter, for what a good Cause in this case indeavours in plainness and simplicitie, the other endeavours to avo [...]d by Ar­tifice and cunning

But to Proceed, what you begin with is to clear your selves of Imposition and Formallitie, but could you have proved either of the Points there had been no Occasion of this, it followes (Page the 4) I do not find (sayes our Author) that you (meaning those disa­tisfied) have any just cause to sear in general an infringe­ment on our Christian Liberty. Since it has been and is most sincerely declared by the Brethren chiefly concern'd in the good Order and Service of the Church, that they have no thought or design of imposing any thing upon the Consciences of Friends or that friends, ought to have now any more then at the beginning any other reason or measure of compliance or conformity in matters re­lating to God then the conviction of the light and Spirit of God in every Conscience but there is this distinction to be considered well of, that the matters in difference are not such as require such an exercise and conviction of Conscience as is pleaded because they relate not to Faith or Worship, did they require Faith, or did they appertain to Worship, as if you were obliged to Worship God only in such Place, time, Gesture, Raiment, with such words and Forms of speech, &c. Your Plea and objection were good; but this about which your Disa­tisfaction arises is merely Discipline in Government and not in Worship, Formallitie in Order, not in Reli­gion, it is about Methods of regulating our selves as to the Civil or outpart of the Church, as we are a So­ciety, &c. For instance, to keep the Necessitous, and reconcile Differences, in fine, to prevent rebuke, and restore disorderly Walkers.

Ans. You see we have quoted you fairly, and shall as freely examine it without begging any excuse; for in matters of Truth and Justice all carnal consideration is to be set aside; on this account then we are to [Page 23]know no Man after the flesh, no not that of Fathers or Elders, and therefore first take notice, all this has no­thing in it to prove a necessity for Womens Meeting con­stantly in the Society as above, nor that you under the Notion of Elders have any Power from God or the So­ciety to bring in, and inforce upon Us that for which in truth there is no necessity; no, could you do that, you do but trifle and lose time by this discourse; but the truth of it is, this bespeaks you can prove neither of the Points; for you perswade us to follow you in those things, not because there is a necessity for them, or because you have Power to Impose them upon us; but because they are not matter of Conscience; whereas if you had Power to bring them in or there was a necessity for them, then they must be matter of Conscience, and it would be our Duty to obey you; for what is Duty is matter of Conscience; you know we have been directed and exhorted to walk in the light as God is in the light, and that is al­wayes, but this we cannot do without Conscience and understanding; now if we must follow you without understanding and Conscience, we are to follow you not in the Light but without it, and then that must be in the dark, and you know 'tis writ they that walk in the dark know not whither they go; to be sure if they get not into the Ditch they must be in danger of it.

But to proceed, You tell us that you find no cause for us to fear in the general an infringement of your Christian Liberty, &c. If this was true in the general, yet just cause in a particular case was sufficient for our resent­ment, for once admit of one error, and way is made for more; you know 'tis a Proverb, Rome was not built on a day; nor did the most degenerate Church become so all at once; nay there's a time ordinarily to grow [Page 24]worse as well as better, but your reason as we take it, that we need not fear an Infringement on our Christian Liberty is this, that the Brethren chiefly con­cerned in the good Order, &c. have most sincerely de­clared they have no thoughts of imposing upon Con­science. But pray who are those Brethren, what must we suppose at adventure who they are, and then conclude they have not only most sincerely declar­ed as above, but also that they cannot err or be mis­taken? But in the first Place, if the matter be so purely Civil as you make it, why are not those persons you speak of, as civilly set forth, for otherwise we are to depend on we know not whom, and take for truth what we cannot understand, and what more blind and Implicite? And what other Medium is afforded whilest neither the Brethren are set out, nor we al­lowed Conscience to know what men say is true, for take notice, there must be a certainty of those things, or a liberty of Choice. But our Author is one of those chiefly concern'd in the good Order, above or he is not, if not pray how does he know those he speaks of have most sincerely declared? what does he presume they have, and we must trust him; and what's this but presumption upon presumption? But if he is one of them chiefly concern'd and so may pretend he speaks by experience; what demonstration does he give be­yond his say so? but if we know him and could take his word for himself, what security can he give for the rest concerned, that they have most sincerely declared as before; but suppose they are sincere and in ear­nest, what satisfaction can either he or they give that they are not mistaken in the matter? this is neither Im­pertinent nor Ʋnnecessary; for if we must be led without understanding and Conscience, to know the [Page 25]truth of things or be satisfied for our selves, we had need to have some satisfaction of the sufficiency of those on whom we are to depend, for what blind Man would be willing to be led into a ditch? so that tho he cannot see himselfe, yet would be as sure as possible those can, on whom he is to depend, and plainly whilst you neither set forth our Leaders that we may query them for our satisfaction, nor allow us Conscience to know what Men say is true; you put us as much as in you lyes into a worse condition then those that's blind, who yet have liberty to chuse for their satisfaction to the best of their un­derstanding; how can you think much that we desire to be satisfied when the Leaders and Elders in most Ages in your own sense, at one time or other have been mistaken, and by their mistake have caused the People to err, and yet might be sincere or in earnest; for you know the Apostle Paul bare the Jews witness, they had a Zeal for God but not according to knowledge, and therefore being Ignorant of the Righteousness of God, went about to establish their own; and if we consider there's nothing new what was then, hath been in all the Re­formation & is still, and will continue, where outward things are over valued, or Circumstantial things made terms of Communion. So that there is no more said or done in all this, then what mistaken Men and degenerate Churches may have said or done.

But to Proceed, you tell us that Friends ought not to have now any more then at the beginning, any other reason or measure of compliance or conformitie in matters relating to God, then the conviction of the light, and Spirit of Christ in every Con­science, &c. But (say you) there is this distinction to be con­sidered well of, that the matters in difference are not such as re­quire such an exercise and conviction as is pleaded, because they relate not to Faith or Worship, &c.

Answer, We grant that a distinction may be made be­twixt what relates to God, and what relates to Man, but to make [Page 26]this distinction in our case, on purpose to exclude Conscience in the latter, is so far from being a right measure, that it is really wrong, and not only wrong but dangerous on a Religious score, and not safe on a Civil. First on a Religious score, as this distinction makes serving God not to stand in all we do, it makes it but to stand in some things, and as this makes Gods Worship and Service not to be constant and continu­al, it makes Worship only to relate to times and Places; in the best sense this can but comport with a Legal Ser­vice and dispensation, for it cannot agree with what's truly Gospel as rightly distinguished and understood from what is Legal, for speaking generally there is nor never was but two Covenants or States in which men are truly and sensibly tyed to God, the first is that of fear, the other is that of Love; the first is that of a Servant, and is a Glorious State and has many advantages, but as it cannot perfect, it is not to continue, but is to give Place to the latter, this is that which as it is perfect so 'tis everlasting, the first state can speak much of his Masters greatness and Majestie in the manifesting of his Royal Pleasure at sundry times and on distinct Occasions; but as those appearances continue not, so this State is but a Servants, and doth not abide always in the house, therefore does not equally serve God at all times, but the Son's state abides allwayes in the House, and does allwayes what's pleasing in the sight of God, and does not serve him more at one time then another, as it relates to his Obedience; for tho' the Errand, he is sent about, may differ according to the Occasion; yet cannot be said to serve God more at one time then another because his Love and Obedience is equal.

Now to apply it: For you under the Notion of Elders to conceive, believe and teach as above, that Gods Worship, Honour and Service, stands but in some Acts, and but at some Times and Places, as it must, if we do not serve God in things [Page 27]that may be termed Civil; tis true this sets up an Elder­ship by begetting an Implicite reverance to them; but it is dangerous and pernicious to the Souls of Men, for if once Men believe that Gods Worship stands but in some things, and but at some times, it prevents the looking and hoping for that Spiritual Worship, Our Lord and Master taught, which is neither at Samaria [...]s Mountain nor in Jerusalem below but in Spirit and truth, and that, we say is to be constant as well as every where; again to believe this distinction that we are not to serve God alwayes and in all things, this prevents the looking and hoping for the effect of that Prayer Our Lord taught his Disciples and us, as we become his Disciples, and that is, thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth, as 'tis in Heaven, and to be sure that is equal, constant, and continual.

Further, to teach that we are not to serve God alwayes and in all things, as it sets God at a distance, so it prevents the looking for as well as the receiving of that blessed Union Our Lord and Saviour speaks of, and that is being made perfect in one through him, by which God becomes all in all, seen, felt, tasted and praised in all we doe, what ever it is; but believing Gods Worship and Service stands but in some things, and but at some times, as it certainly prevents the knowledge of what is a­bove expressed, so it sets up a false rest, then which nothing is more pernitious and dangerous to the Souls of Men; we intreat you to consider of this Doctrine; for where the New Man is truly put on, all is made anew, not only the Hea­vens but the Earth also, and there all is done to the Praise of God to eating and drinking and every thing else.

But on a Civil account we look upon this distinction unsafe, for we know no Civil Government but that of Caesars; therefore none amongst us, but what is Religious, and founded on Religious Principles, in which Faith and Con­science is to be truly concerned in all we doe; For without Faith it is impossible to please God (tho we may men,) and this [Page 28]seems too much insisted on;) we are to walk by faith and not by sight, for 'tis the Just Man that lives by his faith, and if he lives by it, he cannot be without Faith in any act and live to God; Pray mind that; for Faith is as needful to our Souls in the living to God, as the Air is to our Natural Bodies, for the living in this World. As for your instances of those things that do not relate to God, Faith, Conscience, and Religion, that is, keeping the Necessitous, rebuking and restoreing disorderly Walkers, &c. We say those things are Acts of Religion and Conscience, or the Apostle James was out, (1st. Ch: 27 vers) and cannot be done acceptably to God without Faith and Con­ [...]cience, (tho they may without Womens distinct and con­stant Meeting for Government) for if those Acts above could be done rightly without Faith, what hindred the Pha­rises acceptance? For who did them better then they in the outward appearance? But as our Righteousness is to exceed theirs, so if those outward acts be done better by us then them, they must be done in the Faith, in the sense of Gods Presence and Power, ,that workes both the will and deed that's done to his Praise; and this all Forma­lists as well as the Pharises wanted to do them in, and they must needs want that Faith, that gives acceptance with God, who conclude those things are not acts of Re­ligion and Conscience.

But to distinguish things into Civil and Religious, for this purpose, that we might perform, what you are pleased to call Civil, without taking notice of Conscience, which being di­rectly to please and humour you in your Opinions and Judge­ments, what is clearer, then that the Form you are setting up and striving for, to the loss of Charity, and good will, is really to be and is a Form without Power? Seeing according to your distinction it may very easily be performed without Faith and Conscience. On this account pray consider, if you may not as justly be withstood or turned from, as those [Page 29]the Apostle speaks of; We intreat you to be serious in this matter, while Balm in Gilead may be had to heal our wounds and bruises, that is, to cure our Divisions and remove our Dissatisfaction. But further, (You say did those things (of difference) require Faith, or did they appertain to Worship as if you were obliged to Worship God only in some Place, Time Ges­ture, Raiment, with such Words, or Forms of speech, &c. your Plea and Objection was good (page 4)

Answer, True Worship cannot be imposed, for 'tis a ser­ving God according to his mind, in which Mans prescripti­ons have no place, because such the Father only seeks out to serve him, and it appears that Gospel Worship ought to be constant, for such as are Joyned unto the Lord are one Spirit, and they that deny a constant Serving and Worshiping of God, it is because they do not know this Union of being Joyned unto the Lord in one Spirit; how ever the worship you mean and intend is constant or it is not, (for we would by no means mistake you;) if not constant, it relates to our Publick Assemblies only, and so to Preaching and Praying and such other Publick acts as is done and performed at those certain times and Places, and because those things that is the present occasion of difference in a strict sense, do not relate to those Publick acts for Worship in our Assem­blies, therefore in your sense there can be no Imposition up­on Conscience, by Imposing those things; but then pray observe what follows and that is, that there is no serving of God but in our Publick Assemblies, nor (if you please) use of Con­science, but when so met together; On this account, Pray why do you refuse to put off your Hats, to use the word you to a single Person, to pay Tithes and several sorts of Taxes for according to this Notion of Worship and Service those things are Civil and not Religious; we do not mention those things as indifferent; but to shew, how by indeavouring to avoid one error you run into another.

But if we are to Worship and Serve God constantly, as we say we are, we ought to wait to know and be sensible of him every where, and upon all occasions; but we say this cannot be done without Faith, for without Faith we cannot be sensible of his Presence as the Governour of our actions, nor can our deeds be done or wrought in him without it; well then if we are thus to serve God, and this cannot be done without Faith, then we say, if the thing you contend for was really good, we must, if we serve God, first know them to be good; thus on this foot in your own sense our Plea and Objection is good, because the Thing in Difference relates to the Service of God.

You explede in other Societies the impossing Time, Ges­ture and Raiment, in the Worship of God, but pray consider if you are not doing something of the same Nature; for you must grant that the Worship and Service of God ought to be constant or it ought not; if it ought not to be constant, you ty it to some certain times and Places, and herein agree with those you reprehend; but if you allow it constant, the impossition of new things under this Notion of Civil is out of doors; But further this Form that you'r Imposing with all the reason and force you have, is that to a Society, that a Garment is to particular Persons; it is true and as truly granted without any reserve, that what is simple is need­ful in both cases; for we can not be well without a Gar­ment whilest cloathed with those Houses of Clay, neither as we are particular Persons, nor as a Religious Society; but superfluity is dangerous on both hands; for if ever the mind get out to think and conclude that it deserves honour and respect, for the Garment, for the Form's sake in comes those additions of superfluity; from hence on a Religious score comes in Opinion and Ceremony, and this to make it more Glorious and Beautiful; that it may have more re­spect and acceptance both with God and Man; and thus [Page 31]both on a Religious score as well as on a Civil Men grow proud of that which shews their Poverty, and rich in conceit by trusting in that which at the same time demonstrates their want; did they understand or rightly consider of things; for as clothing to our bodies shews our want and not our perfection, even so do Forms in Religion shew our fall and want; and therefore the more we seem to need and are burthened with Ceremony, the more our want and misery appears, if we could but see it. For this cause where this is truly seen and considered, such content themselves with what is simply needful, knowing by how much as they stand in need of little by so much they come near­er their first being; and then such in stead of adding of Opini­on and Ceremony to perfect them, do wait to have such things fulfill'd as much as may be for Righteousness sake; on this account we way safely say the less Ceremony the more truth, and the less noise about the Formallity of Form, the more hopes such wait for the knowledge of God in Christ, which is life Eternal; but to apply the matter, the difference you make with us is not about what is simply needful to Society, for you grant we are one in judgment with you in the Worship and Doctrines of truth, and owns both the end and means of good Order, (Page 11) then pray consider, If it be not hard for you to differ with Us about that which neither relates to the Worship nor Doctrines of Truth.

In short, generally speaking, you have allowed us for­merly as true Worshipers of God without this new Mode or Fashion and you do so still, or you do not; if you do, by what rule can you in the least exclude us your Communion in thought word or deed? But if you do not allow us to be true Worshipers of God and Members of the Society, without we put on this new Mode and Fashion, that you are con­tending for what is more apparent and clear, then that it it is the Raiment or (which is worse) the Fashion of it that is brought in as Terms of Communion and thereby [Page 32]Imposed for us to Worship God in, if we will be of your Society? Look to it, for while you are thus buthened about Ceremony or about the Formallity of Form, the interpretation of what is writing upon this wall of Sepera­tion that you make, will be, that you are weighed in the Bal­lance and found wanting.

Page 6. You say to expect complyance of Members of a Society to such Methods of Order as the Elders thereof have exhorted to and the generallity of the People have imbraced, and which the Major part of those that Dissent, declare they Dissent from, more for fear of suffering an infringement of their Christian Liberty then on dis­like of the matter it selfe, this (you say) cannot be call'd Imposi­tion upon Conscience because expedients of Order, &c.

Answer, That those things concern Conscience we have shewed before; 'tis true you are specious here, but i [...] will not do; for if it were true that the generallity imbraced the Order you have exhorted to, which yet is a question, if we consider it as doing it freely, but if they have that is little; for the greatest Number in most Ages, and that in your own sense have through interest or an Implicite dependance upon their Leaders and Elders, been led and perswaded to their own hurt; again if it were true that the Major part dissent more for fear of an infringment of their Christian-Liberty then on dislike of the matter it selfe, (which we truly question as worded,) yet still their plea is good by what name so ever they call their liberty, for if your distinction of Civil and Religious would hold, which we cannot allow in our case, for our reasons above, yet if it would hold, here's all the difference; we have now a right as Men as well as Christians; and ought no more to be imposed upon by you on a Civil then on a Religious score, you know those that com­mand a Lawful thing to be done that have no legal right to Command it; as it is wrong in those that Command, 'tis wrong in those that obey, the first invade true Liberty the [Page 33]other betray it, so that if the thing was good you ought to have a right Power to Command, but in our coming forth we invested no Man with Power to dispose of us either in Civil or Religious; if we did, Set forth your Authority, for till that is done we conclude you do wrong, and tho from Religious you turn it to Civil; you'r still no better for English Government best suits English Spirits, and the Lawes of England by which the Free Men thereof are go­verned are not made without their consent, which is enough if but truly applyed to spoil this specious pretence.

Page the 7. But you that are Dissatisfyed Object why must we go before Women, and why Women apart from Men? This still Friends, can be no Imposition, as is before expressed, be­cause it is no matter of Faith nor Practice of Worship; but a referring still to our External Order of Life,

Answer. This being as new as any thing to the Objection you have made, for those that are dissatisfied in Page 3. we may reasonably expect that the strength of your reason will be laid out upon it. We desire you to consider it, to is our Author sayes still this can be no Imposition upon Con­ [...]cience as before expressed, but why we pray? Because sayes he, it is not matter of Faith, nor practice of Worship, but a referring still to our External Order, that is, such an Order and Form as may be set up without Faith, and practised without Conscience; for observe here is still no­thing brought to prove a necessity for the thing, nor that you as Elders have any power to bring any thing in against the mind of your Brethren, for which there is no necessity; as to that of Faith, we have spoken to it before and therefore in short if we must receive those things you exhort to with­out Faith, it must be to please Men and not God; what is new in this Argument is your Instance, that the common Banns of Marriage exclude not Women making their ex­ceptions. Very well, nor do we exclude them where they [Page 34]are concern'd; but what is this to prove a necessity for Wo­mens distinct Meeting for Government in the Society? Nothing surely; Women are concern'd in their own Marriages, and sometimes publickly in perticular cases; and what then, therefore they must be so far concern'd in the Publick Ad­ministration of our Church or State Government, as if we could neither have Discipline nor Society without their constant and distinct Meeting to uphold us; what's this, but by a perticular Case or Act, to prove in general a ne­cessity for them to be Church or State Rulers? We will not say the Argument is fallacious but we may safely say 'tis frivolous.

But again, Why Women apart say you (that are dissatisfied? To which our Author answers (and indeed 'tis well worth ob­serving considering the weight that lyes upon it, much of the difference depending upon this modification, and he is so far from leaving out any thing that may contribute to for­tifie this Point, that he tells us his thoughts and all) We think sayes the Author (and you think with him by the ap­probation of his thoughts) for a very good reason (well pray mind this good reason, nay this very good one if you can believe it on second thoughts) Well (sayes the Author) the Church increaseth and what then? This (sayes he) increas­eth the business, and is this all that we might so justly ex­pect to acquit you of Formallity and Imposition? Indeed this is a poor sorry business to convince us, that there is a necessity for Womens distinct and constant Meeting for Go­vernment, in our Society, whether you'l inforce it under the Notion of Civil or Religious, whilest the whole body of Christians never yet increast so much as to find that Me­thod Serviceable, much less a necessity for it.

But to make the most we can of this very good reason, by following it as far as it is good for any thing; suppose then there might be such an increase of Friends in some Places, as [Page 35]might possibly constitute a necessity for Womens Meetings, yet where no such increase is, there is nothing to do for this very good reason; therefore to set up Womens Meet­ings universally is wrong, because it is set up not with re­spect to the increase for Service, but the formallity of the thing; for in this (Page 6) You tell us, it is the end that allwayes constitutes the means, and here you tell us, that the increase makes the business, and as business is that end, therefore on those terms, where there is no increase; there is no business, and where no business no end, and where no end there need no means; and 'tis certain in many Places there is no increase since the thing came in question, there­fore as it is against the truth, so 'tis against your very good reason to impose them universally upon our Society; thus to impose them is a wrong, that you ought to avoid, both according to reason and truth.

But further, according to this reason that the increase makes the Service, a decrease takes it away; therefore where there is a decrease in stead of an increase, as the Service is at an end, we hope you will give leave to lay them by, and we think you can hardly deny this; for as (in your sense) there is not matter of Conscience; Conscience you know cannot be pleaded to uphold them; and if the pretence of Service be a wanting, to what purpose are they indeavoured to be kept up; except for meer Formal­lity? The endeavouring of Unity there being the Rock, on which all others have split; But in short, either your El­ders, that have exhorted to this of Womens Meeting and have used your Authority with the People for the keeping them up till you have made these Rents Divisions and Dis­satisfaction, did believe and judge that Friends was faith­ful to God without Womens Meeting, that is before they had them, or that they was not; if they was not faithful to God, did you think the setting up Womens Meetings for [Page 36]Government in the Society would doe the business? What do you say. Did you think they would keep out the De­vil or baffle the Serpent? Indeed if that was true, things is much altered since the beginning. But if you did believe that Friends was faithful, how could you imagine they would not receive what was needful without force? Pray consi­der is not our Principle universall? And is not the Spirit of truth sufficient to lead into all truth? Then must not every Man, at least every Meeting know best what was Service­able for them, or what they ought to do? If so, what need we pray of more then recommendation? Except you were afraid the Spirit of Truth would not lead into this Practice, and why? Except you know it was not a truth, and if not a truth, will you differ with us for things that ought not be observed as a truth? Pray Con­sider of it.

Page the 8. and 9) You are pleased to tell us of the great benefits of Women distinct Meeting for Government, For (say you to confirm it) two businesses is doing at the same time, which (say you) in Country Places and Winter Seasons where Friends come 10 or 15 Miles to a Meeting must needs be very convenient and comfortable, &c.

Answer, Indeed You are hard beset to keep up the credit of your Opinion, while such Lame Notions are given for reason; for this makes Womens Meetings Serviceable, where either they cannot be Practised, or to be sure, are least used; for here you give short dayes and Winter Season, to make them the more Servicable, so that long dayes and Summer Seasons have the less occasion for them; and yet every body knowes they are then most frequent. And again, as you make their greatest Service to be in Country Places, where Friends come ten or 15 Miles to a Meeting, they seem clearly to be of least use in the City, if at all Service­able there; because Friends live near together, so may [Page 37]take time to do that business they cannot in the Country; when truly had not the good Women in the City found either more Service for their Meeting or less business of their own we believe we should never have been pres­sed with Womens Meeting in the Country to our dissatis­faction; but by how much Friends live farther off one ano­ther by this rule Womens Meetings still are the more Service­able, for the farther off one another, the less time to meet to­gether, and so stand the more need of quicker dispatch; but all this proves Womens Meeting a very ordinary business, for where Friends live near together, they may very well excuse the Women, because they may take time to dispatch their business themse [...]ves; and then where they live remote they may as well excuse them, by reason of the inconveni­ence of getting to go; so that you see all this noise, accord­ing to this reason, is about litle or nothing. But pray is not this reason at a litle ods with your Very good reason befor? For there you made the increase of Friends to great Numbers to make the Service, and here the fewness; for the remoteness does demonstrate there's but few; but pray be­fore you go further then 15 Miles for a Womans Meeting, is the thing practicable you have already set on foot? What! 15 Miles to a Meeting for Women and home again in Win­ter season and short dayes! to which we may add, bad Wayes, long Miles and bad Weather, for you have made no pro­vision nor exception that we know of; what think you of it on second thoughts? You know you have told the good Women the matter does not relate to God, nor is matter of Conscience, so we hope you will allow them the use of their reason, for if they find all the business they can do and goe 15 Miles to a Meeting in short dayes as above, is not worth while, or that they can do all that business, if any better in their respective Meetings, and perhaps with less Charge, then this 15 Miles Journey would put them to; and besides [Page 38]save themselves at home, where they may be sure they have an incumbent Duty, will not you be content? What do you say? If not, pray may not we justly and honestly in­quire if such as injoyne this 15 Miles Journey do themselves put it in practise? If answered, that perhaps such as injoyn it do not live so remote, and therefore have not occasion to make the tryal; then may we not still inquire who are best Judges of fact, those that do not put in practice or them that have? But what think you of it, was not this Order made in some warmer Climate or at least for some that dwelt where Dayes are more equal, Wayes better, and Miles not so long, as in many parts of England? But in­deed too much of this, if it had not been to shew the fri­volousness of your reason) and therein the meanness of the cause that you have caused contention about.

Page the 9 you tell us those are your reasons and Motives to the present Practice of Womens Meeting in the Church of Christ without compelling Conscience or infringing Christian Liberty, &c.

Answer, We have considered the weightyest of your rea­sons that we could find as above, and do not see any thing that is offered that can clear you of either; for here is not one word brought that proves a necessity for the thing you have introduc'd, and insisted upon to Dissatisfaction; or that you have power as Elders rightly to bring into the So­ciety against your Brethrens mind, that which in truth there is no necessity for. Could you prove either of those Points (as before) then it must be our Duty to obey and follow you; but not being so brought in; as it cannot be our Duty to obey, it can be no less in you them Imposi­tion and Formallity by which you indeavour, (whether you consider it or not) both to compel Conscience and in­fringe Christian Liberty.

Page the 9. our Author proceeds to tell us his own sense, by this it appears he told us the sense of others before, at least the sense of others as well as his own; which makes our application to such no less forceible; it followes sayes my Author, my own sense upon the whole matter, (of diffe­rence, for that must be intended) is a misaprehending of the Brethrens intentions and an undistinguishing Zeal against Im­position on the one hand, (that is on the side of those dissa­tisfied) and a fear on the other side (that is on the side of the Elders) that those who so mistook and misrendred the design of the Brethren, were either high minded and unruly, or prone to indue liberty or that they not being the first promo­ters of this Discipline, (to wit Womens Meeting for Go­vernment) detracted from those that were, and so would les­sen the credit of their endeavours, &c. I say (sayes the Author) my sense is that this on each side gave life to the Division, &c.

Answer, We must confess this is pretty modest of a Par­ty concerned and desire you may weigh it, for wee'l con­sider it a little; first as to undistinguishing Zeal against Im­position, by this and some other passages in this Book it appears you allow of some kind of Imposition; therefore as you are the Imposers, it had been your part to have dis­tinguished the matter before you had Imposed upon your Brethren; that so if possible all this trouble might have been avoided; but notwithstanding that you seem to at­tempt something about it, now when a great deal too late, yet we do not find it well done still; 'tis true you tell us, we are not to be imposed upon on a Religious score, nor in things that relate to God; therefore if as Brethren, we had been consulted that we might have agreed, if possible, about sixing the bounds of what's Religious and what relates to God; the difference now had been in a less compass; but you have been far from this Brotherly way, whilest as [Page 40]Elders you have not consulted Us as Brethren, nor as Mem­bers of that Society, that confesses but one Lord and one head; nay rather have not you treated us either not as Brethren or at best but as Minors, that know not our right hand from our left, having no skill in the things that relate to God, nor what is Religious, as neither knowing Con­science nor who is Lord thereof? And doth not all this appear by the determining the matter without our know­ledge approbation or consent? And have not you here di­rectly trode the steps of a wrong imposing Church accord­ing to your distinction in address to Protestants Page 144, where you say, an Imposing Church bears witness of her self she will be both Party and Judge, &c. And is not this di­rectly your State? For as Parties, have not you introduced your Opinions? And as Judges have not you determined the matter against us? We intreat you to weigh the matter seriously, for if this was wrong and evil in others, it cannot be good or right in you; for by how much as our com­ming together, as a Society, is more voluntary and free then any other People, that we know of on a Religious score, by so much is the point more tender, and therefore any thing of unjust Imposition more evil.

2dly. As to our misapprehending the Brethrens intention in that case: We believe we have not misapprehended them at all; however shall be as Charitable as we can in the explaining of our selves; therefore we say the Brethren might intend well, to wit, the credit of the Society and that others might be gathered over to our Form. Yet all this does not prove but they was mistaken in the means used to do it; for 'tis without doubt that the builders of Babel (a Figure of all the mistaken Builders on a Religious score) in­tended no less then the credit and preservation of their So­cieties, and to make their Mountain the gate to Heaven, that others might be obliged to come by them away; the [Page 41] Pharises was as solicitous in the like case and we believe there has been the same care and pretenses in all the Refor­mations. And conclude that you as well as we, judge that all those was wrong, and mistaken, and that their mistake was chiefly Ignorance of Gods power and righteousnes, as well as of his nearness, and therefore in stead of waiting for Gods power to preserve and his righteousness to adorn them, they indea­voured it by their own that could never answer the end de­signed, and truly we believe you are under the like mistake, how strange soever things may appear to you, 'tis certainly the acting of your own Spirit in the likeness of truth, that hath deceived you; we would not have you angry, for there's no occasion to be surprised, since you know beforehand we are Dissatisfyed, and therein do oppose you; now we must op­pose you either as believing you right or wrong, in this of Imposition; if you should conclude that we oppose you as believing you are right you make us really Judges, and as this will offer violence to our understanding we must of ne­cessity (we can not avoid it but) know you are mistaken and do really want Charity, this must cast off all accommoda­tion; for on this account the difference would be made on your part, as great as betwixt Christ and Belial or light and darkness; therefore to prevent your falling into this gulph all we can, and yet without any flattering we must say, We do oppose you as really believing you are wrong; Now that wrong must be managed by design, or through some mistake, if we should conclude it really by design you might perhaps, (and that truly) conclude us uncharitable on the other hand, (and two extreams can never meet) therefore we do place the wrong you do on a mistake (as above) for we can believe you might intend well, to wit, the credit of the Society; but we see those additions you use, as means, cannot do it, nor lyes it in your power by any additions, that you can make use of, to preserve the Name. The Name Quaker will [Page 42]lose its Lustre and Beauty as well as other Names, for the glory of all flesh is but as the Flower of the Field, that the ga­thering may be still more Spiritual as well as more universal, for 'tis only they that doe Righteously that is Righteous, and 'tis only those that fear God and workes righteousness that are accepted of him, and such he accepts every where; and he accepts none else amongst us, nor have we this righteousness as we are of this Form, Society or Name, but as we fear and love God, so that if you cannot raise up this fear and love by which that Righteousness is wrought, that gives acceptance, you can do litle except weary and burthen your selves in the inventing of New Order; that way indeed you may become a Sect as a Nation that warreth against other Nations, but hereby you'l miss the true unity, that stands in the Spirit of Righteousness; by seeking it and placing it in the formal­lity of Form.

3dly, But our Author makes the cause of difference on the other side (that on the side of the Elders) to be their fear, that such as did oppose, did it because they are highminded, or unruly or for undue liberty or because not Parties concern'd &c. (as before.

Answer, It seems there was no Fence for your fear, you were afraid but you did not know of what, we grant those that are afraid in the dark may have strange apprehensions and if in that fear they proceed to judgment and go about to provide for their security, they may well err in the one and misaply the other, why? Because they'r in the dark, that is in doubt and want Patiene to stay till the light come, that makes things manifest as they are, and truly this appears to be your condition with your Brethren; which have been occasion of so much trou­ble and strife, and why should this be taken ill, or thought hard? You know those that are in fear as you were must needs be in doubt, and those in doubt are really in the dark, and it in that doubt or darkness they proceed to Judgment they must needs err, all this is clear to us on your part, for you [Page 43]did not know the true cause of your Brethren's Dissatisfacti­on and opposing you, and therefore tho you Imagined many causes (as above) you still miss'd it; now had you been certain, you could not have been in fear, for that is doubtful; 'tis true the case might have been such as you might have been troubled, but you was in fear and in that fear did go about to preserve your selves, and here was the mischief of the mistake, those that took this great fright had power to Intrest the Major part (the body as its call'd) in their secu­rity under the most specious pretence that particulars or others must be accountable to the Society. Which tho true in many cases, yet is false in some, and that is, when it truly concerns the Lord, and here all or most Societies have err'd, and your Plea is now no more then an old Artifice of the Enemy, by which just and Conscientious Men have been made suf­ferers, in most Ages, as well as in Ours, here was the be­ginning of our mischief and misery, and the cause of it con­tinues; for those of whom you were afraid must need be clothed according to your fear, and what followes whether your Judgement was right or wrong 'tis all one, they must suffer as evil doers by being kill'd and destroy'd in the minds and desires of the unthinking; few Synods and Coun­cils of Men on this account but they have err'd; but as easily as they have been mistaken, it has been as hard to retrieve the wrong, nay on this score have they not rather been tempted to seek out shifts and evasions to cover a fault, then confess a failing? If it be inquired who is thus concerned in our case? The Answer is ready, but in stead of exposing Names, we could desire such might compare their mistake on this foot, with what hath happen'd even through most Ages, and so consider what they have done and do so no more, but in stead thereof make use of their power to make those things indifferent, that have given occasion by being Positive; and then we could easily pass all by and love freely; for truly [Page 44]as much has been forgiven, we can forgive much, and what hazard in all this? when you say those things relate not to God? And truly you'r far from becoming all unto all while you cannot dispense with your own Opinions.

Page the 10th Our Author tells us our difference now is more in Spirit then in fact, in mind more then matter, &c.

Answer, Seing Our Author makes this difference so litle as to matter of fact, as not to amount to matter of Con­science, we hope in time you will see it your Place to take it away by making your Opinion indifferent; that so in stead of falling out by the way, we might quietly travel toge­ther for the true rest.

But to proceed, It is (our Author sayes), come to this, whether Conversation should belong to Women as well as Men and over this he thinks we are gotten for the most part, it seems then we are gotten a little nearer together then we were in his Judgment, and if any mistake is removed 'tis very well; but pray who ever denyed Womens Concern in con­versation as well as Men? They was alwayes concern'd in their own and such as was under their charge, we were allwayes of this mind, and to this the Apostle agrees where he wills the Younger Widdowes to Marry and govern the House, &c.

And if he took this care for the Un-married, surely he did nor forget those that were; but what then? Tho the care of Conversation belongs to them, must they every way be as publickly concern'd as Men? What will nothing do but noise and Popularitie? Must not Men meet but Women must meet and at the same time, but yet must be distinct and seperate from the Men, tho' but divided by a Curtain in the same Room? And is not the Mode of Division most of the matter? Must they indeed be as far concern'd as the Men? Must nothing be done without their consent and ap­probation? Nay sure, for we find the Apostle checking this [Page 45]Popularity and affected Government, when he forbids Wo­men speaking in the Church, but this he did not unto Men which makes some difference; and if he forbids Women speak­ing in the Church, certainly he never thought of either mak­ing a Church or Church rulers of them; you'l say this pro­hibition did not exclude Women in all cases; we say so too; but then it must in a general sense, or you make the Apostle in a matter he seemed so earnest about to speak to no purpose.

2ly. Our Author asketh, whether Women may not meet sepe­rate from Men? And for answer to this he sayes, be pleased to take notice of your unavoidable concession you (that are dissatis­fyed) allow meeting of care in general, and do not absolutely deny Women their share amongst the Men, &c.

Ans. All this is right in the sense we take it, but pray who ever denyed honest Women to meet apart and distinct from Men on occasion? What need of all this, except to make it better appear how far we agree, that so a juster estimate may be taken of our difference? If so, all is well still, there­fore consider the difference, we say they may meett on occa­sion seperate from Men, but you say they must meet and that constantly for Government, whether there be occasion for it, or no, tho they go 15 Miles to a Meeting in Winter sea­sons; what's this but to make busines rather then want it? And indeed to make a great noise about those very things that the more we are concern'd for the more our want and nakedness appear? For what does all this noise, but de­clare that we do not possess what we profess, and are not faithful to our own convictions.

But to proceed, our Author sayes to those that are disatis­fied, You own the end; what's that? you (that are disatisfied) own that the Poor and other things that are essential to Society should be taken care for, that is right, but again sayes our Author you allow of the means too; What's that? Well that must [Page 46]be such fitting Methods as may answer that end the business above expressed or intended; well thus far we do agree, and it must be granted there is a fitting Method to answer the publick busines or necessities of our Society, without Imposing constant distinct Womens Meetings for Government, or there is not; if not, let our Author affirm and prove it; for do that honestly and take the cause; but if there is a fitting Method to answer the Publick busines of our Society with­out this unity in Formallity contended for, why do you differ with Us, except it be for mastership? And if that be it, be plain with us, and so end the Dispute.

But again our Author sayes, You referr the choise of your means to the Society, and you as well as we expect a complyance with those Rules, &c.

Ans. Hold a little; for 'tis too much to grant this by whole sail as little as it is, therefore we will first enquire what is intended, for it is necessary to understand what we are to comply with, pray therefore observe who our Author speaks to, for he speaks in the Plural, You (sayes he) referr the choice of your means to the Society, Pray who speaks he to? Why, in this case he must needs speak to those Friends that are seperated for they having only distinct Meetings and Discipline, it is referrable to them or none; now if he speaks to those Friends, that is through disatisfaction Seperated, then he must speak to the whole Communitie, or but to a part; if he speak but to a part of them, pray what part of those that's seperated? This is necessary, for we ought to understand his meaning; but if he speaks to the whole Com­munitie; then what is this Society, that those that's sepe­rated referr the choise of the means or Rules to for Disci­pline? For here's a Society in a Society, and this seems a mistery; pray let this be unfoulded; for this Society in a So­ciety seems some active business, 'tis set forth as the Soul to the body, pray how comes this Society? What, is it [...] [Page 47] [...]? Why; let it be what it will, God makes it, or Man, or otherwise it must make it self? It self it cannot make ac­cording to reason and truth, therefore if this Society makes it selfe, as its beginning must be Usurpation, its end will be Tyrany and Oppresion, now if those you write to submit to any such Usurpation amongst themselves, whilest they deny it to you, pray prove it upon them; for do that and they will appear guilty of what they accuse you for; but if this Society be of Mans making, that is, that those that are seperated, have selected some from among them­selves to govern them, in whom they have deposited a Power to make Rules and Lawes for them to which the whole is to be subject without examination, tho 'tis true in this it can not be said that others have inslaved them because it is their own choice, but if they have done thus pray prove it upon them? For still they will in some part be guilty of that they accuse you of, there is only this difference, that those thus chosen may act rationally according to the Power lodged in them whilest you act without any such choice or assignation that we know of, the first indeed may be said to be ra­tional, but is it really Ignorance of the sufficiency of Christ to make any such choice and a dishonour to our Lord, as it takes away examination, but to have any to Impose themselves upon us is slavery to boot.

Lastly, But if this Soceiety is of our Lords making, then they must act according to the description of Government our Lord has given and advised to in his Disciples, where he tells us, he that rules should be as him that serves, and he that would be greatest in his Government must be Servant to all the rest, then not as Lords and Masters to Impose upon the rest, for as his Kingdom is not of this World, no more is his Government like the government of this World, for that stands in force and mostly in subtilty and contrivance, but he takes his Kingdom and Government in the hearts of Men by con­victions [Page 48]and perswasions only, which is diametrically contrary to wrath subtilty, force and violence.

But to Apply what is said to our case; as we are a publick Society, there is business belongs to Us, this must be done by some body, and for that end 'tis needful to have time and place appointed that such as are willing to serve their Bre­thren and Friends may meet; and because all cannot meet, such as do, are allowed to act according to those Rules the Society have imbrac'd, and if any thing farther seems needful to them, such have liberty, as the rest of their Brethren have, and not otherwise, to recommend it, but cannot Command; for as we are a free and voluntary Society confessing but one head and Lord, the liberty of examination, must be preser­ved, as well that we may continue a free People, as also and chiefly that we may conserve that honour due unto the Lord, and where according to the truth and our constitution examination ought to be preserved, a choice must be allowed, so that on this foot recommendation is the highest any Man or any Assembly among us can go in the adding of new things nor will or can such as have the mind of Christ desire more; therefore if what such recommend meet with acceptance, all is well; but if not, all is well still to such as meet to serve their Friends and Brethren, and not to be their Lords and Masters now those that have seperated from you on the account of Imposition writes after this Coppy, which our Lord and Master hath set, they will never differ at an El­dership nor mastership, and truly had you given this good example of selfe denyal, we could have given you double Ho­nour, for we are for good Order, thô against Mastership, and for good Government but against Arbitrary proceedings; nor let any think we cannot have good Order and Government so far as its necessary without a despotick Power be lodged in some to rule over us; nay the Civil Constitution of our own Nation demonstrates the contrary, for it allows of Or­der [Page 49]and Government but denys Arbitrary Power, and if in Civil there has been this sense of Freedom to provide a­gainst Lordship and Dominion how much more ought we to avoid it in Religion? where Christ our Lord is to be our Example, that overcame by suffering, and through Death destroyed him that had the Power of Death.

But again Page 11 Our Author sayes The Question is whe­ther in fact Womens Meetings be part of that Discipline the Church admits of, and to this the Author sayes, 'tis evi­dent the Church of God generally speaking receives and Prac­tices it.

Ans. This is litle to conclude us, when 'tis considered that the greatest part of all Churches through all Ages, and that in your own sense, at last have been wrong and mistaken. But to the matter, if we take the Church of God in a general sense (according to Address to Protestants Page 154) we may safe­ly say she neither receives nor practices Womens Meeting for Discipline, but we take it he means Friends; and if not too much to apply the term only to them; then we say, the contrary saying must be as true as this and of as much force to determine the matter against you, the Church of God ge­nerally speaking (sayes our Author) receives and Practices Womens Meetings; what then? But not speaking generally doth neither receive nor practice them; in our Authors sense both parts make the Church, tho not receiving this of Womens meetings by the lesser part hinders not them from being of the Church, and we are sure the practising of them by the greater part can make them no more; then who is this that dare for their mere Opinion sake divide by force and voilence what God hath Joyned together? You know what Christ our Lord said that there should be no Mastership among his; pray then deliver us from this yoak of Bon­dage, which neither we nor our Fathers were able to bear, [Page 50]to wit, Mastership in Religion, and we hope we shall be wil­ling to wait till you are better inform'd.

Page the 13 our Author proceeds as followeth, As in no Age the resisters and gainsayers of care and Order in any of the Lords Servants have passed without the marks of Gods rebuke, so they that have contested and opposed the wisdome of God in his faithful Servants have ever fail'd of their purpose and have been finally manifested to have been led by a wrong Spirit, and as observable it is that those by whom the Lord has eminently appeared and who were the first Instruments of his several dispensations to the Sons of Men have allwayes exercised that Authority amongst the People they have gathered and have constantly been preserved from falling away though some or other have risen up against them with that clamor as if they had set up themselves and were gone from what they taught or were or took too much upon them but what have they all come to, read and Judge, &c.

Answer, 'Tis clear that the genuine and direct sense of all this is to get us into a dependance upon Man under the Notion of Eldership, and to perswade or affright into that Implicite Reverence as that we should not examine what is said or done by them, but the receiving things presumptive­ly on the vallue of others, hath fill'd the Professors of Christianity with Ignorance as well as error, as is excellently set forth in address to Protestants (Page 136 and so to the end of that Head) there wants nothing but application and that is needful because Example prevailes more then Pre­cept. Now that we may avoid that fault in our selves, which you have so warmly and truly taxed in others, we will as freely examine this Part as we have done the rest; and for that end pray who are these Servants you intend and how must we certainly know them? For truly as before if there must be a dependance they ought to be set forth, and what is all this care you speak of? Is it that of Maryes [Page 51]or that of Martha's? That was so Cumbred about many things that thought Mary took little care, and what was the rea­son, but that her selfe was cumbred too much? It seems the latter by this Noise and Clamor that is made about it; 'tis a part that may be taken away which makes those con­cern'd so sensible of it, that they cannot let others be quiet that like Mary have chosen the better part.

But do you conclude or think that such as are dissatisfy­ed with Womens Meetings doe therein oppose the mind of the Lord in any of his Servants, yet how should that be? Whilst you grant those things are not matter of Conscience and that they'r one in judgement with you in the Worship and Doctrines of truth, what is it not a Doctrine of truth and matter of Conscience to believe true Prophets? Again what do you mean by those words contesting the Wisdom of God? Do you intend that Womens Meetings (the matter in question) was set up by the Wisedom of God to be practised? But pray how can this be when you tell us that the things in difference relate not to God nor is matter of Conscience? What set up by the Wisdome of God to be observed and yet neither relates to God, nor is matter of Conscience? What think you of it? Is not this very strange and inconsistant? If not pray explain your selves better.

But further you tell us, those made eminent have been constantly preserved from falling away tho opposed; but what came such to as did oppose read and Judge.

Answer, Here you bear witness to your selves, and what is this but to affright Us into submission to your pre­tences? But pray how must we know those things, for exclud­ing the Apostles times and those before, where must we read all this you tell of? What do you bid us read and Judge, and can not tell where, or at least does not? To be sure this is noise, to say no more, for it can not be to Edification,

Again, what do you mean by those Dispensations he speaks of? He might at least have given an Instance of what he intended, which being omitted, 'tis like the rest, more to amuse then inform us; but will you allow those dealings of God with Israel in Egypt and so into Canaan, to be in­cluded in the Dispensations he speaks of? If you will 'tis well, if not, yet tis clear to us they are a sign of Gods dealing with Men now, in Order to bring them into peace and rest with himselfe, nay what if we say a Figure of Gods dealing with Man from the beginning to the end; for first here is Israel in Canaan which may stand as a Figure of Mans State in Paradice, Israels going down into Egipt by reason of Famine, a Figure of Mans driving out of Paradise, Israel's relief comfort and satisfaction in Egipt, a Figure of Mans Fall whilest alive in the World, being dead to God; the Law or Power of Death having dominion over him; and Isreal in bondage in Egipt a Figure of Mans fall, and misery when sensible of it, being truly quickned and thereby made to know the Power or Law of sin in his Members; but ob­serve this bondage in Egipt preceded their deliverance, and made way or prepared them for their going out into the Wilderness, now as the Wilnerness was a different State to that of Egipt, so the travel there fitted them for the possessi­os Canaan; so far as its said of that generation, who had seen Gods wonders in Egipt, and had experience of his vari­ous dealings or dispensations, that they did walk sweetly with the Lord, but when another Generation arose that did not know those things but by hearsay, though they was in the same Land, they soon forsook the Lord and served Idols; from hence there appears a necessity for every indi­vidual soul to have experience of those various dealings of God in a spiritual sense in Order to their walking humbly with him. Observe there was perfect different States and dispensations in the same age, that is, to the same People [Page 53]contrary to what you assert; here was Canaan Liberty and Freedome, opposed to Egipt bondage and Oppression, and at last Canaan rest to the Wilderness Travels; and as there was those real different States and perfect change of dispensations in the same age, to the same People, so was their Leader, (observe that) as truly changed: For Moses how eminent soever in the bringing them out of Egipt, and through the Sea, yet could he not bring them through Jor­dan into Canaan, a Type of the true rest; no, that was Joshua's work, Moses's Minister, the Figure of the true Jesus, which deserves your serious consideration, for in this change of dispensation lies your great mistake. We might say more, but shall add only this that what was then in the Figure is now to be done in the Substance, what was then done in the Letter, is now to be done in Spirit; for Gods Israel now is after the Spirit and not after the flesh, and are to be gathered from Man to God; so that if you do not throw down your Crowns, there by making way for his Government, by freely delivering up all unto him, but in stead thereof by reflecting upon your abillities to Rule, shall seek to perpe­tuate your Government under the Notion of Eldership, nei­ther you that seek this dependance, nor those that depend upon you can enter the good Land, of which Canaan was a Figure; and what then? If you go not forth again into Egipt you must die in the wilderness.

But we have more to this purpose, in this Page it fol­lowes, nor was it ever heard of (sayes our Author) in the dealings of God with the Sons of men that he varyed or chang­ed his dispensations in the life time of the Instruments, (observe) of any of them as some have been ready to imagine nor yet in that age in which he has brought them forth, &c.

Answer, What adoe here is to get your Government established. If it were Christs our Lords, there would be none of this Noise; but as sure as you seem you'r mistaken [Page 54]that God has varyed his dispensations in the same age is clear above; for those very People of whom it was testified that they did walk sweetly with the Lord were of such as had seen Gods wonders in Egypt, in the Sea, and at Mount Sinai, had known a travel in the Wilderness; and their Leader changed, and that before they entered Canaan, did know the dividing of the Land, and a sitting under their own Vine, none being left to make them afraid; and this under Joshua and not Moses, according to the Figure, is sufficient to shew the wrongness of your assertion; but again, that God never varied or changed his dispensation in the life time of the Instrument of them nor in that Age, this is still as wrong as the former, nay false in fact, for Instance John the Baptist. For that dispensation wherein he was so Emi­nent was truly varyed if not changed in his life time, that it was varyed and to be changed is clear from the Baptists own testimony, and that it was changed in the same Age, is past scruple or contradiction, and not to John Baptist only but to Christ also, first in flesh and then in Spirit.

Now as those assertions are wrong and contrary to the truth, so are they of dangerous consequence to the Souls of men; by perpetuating Mans Government in stead of Christs; there's something like that saying Where is the Pro­mise of his coming? For since the Fathers dyed all things con­tinue alike, for like to that is this that God never varied or changed his dispensation in the same Age, nor in the life time of the Instruments of any of them, in this all things continue alike as they ever did; and then on this foot must not you under this profession all degenerate as others have done be­fore in your sense? But pray how contrary is this to our Saviours advice to his Disciples and to all Man. For sayes he, What I say unto you I say unto all, Watch; and why must we watch? Why, because you know not at what hour your Master will come, and pray who is this Master, but the Lord [Page 55]our God; that changes and varies his dispensations when it pleaseth him, but rarely or never perceived by the Carnal mind nor by the greatest Formalist in Religion, no, no they'r the greatest enemies of it; 'tis true you do not deny but the Dispensation may be changed but though you can not tell certainly when it shall be, yet you presume to tell and that certainly when it shall not be; and that's not in this Age; so that whiles this Age lasts, we need not Watch in your sense; 'tis true your words imply God may alter this Dispensation when this Age is over, and when all those eminent Instruments are dead, but not till then however, and thus by Preaching us into a sleepy Ignorance you hope to secure your Government as long as you and we live, and indeed that's long enough. But if you could watch for us that we need not but may rest secure as long as this Age lasts or you live, yet seeing the Dispensation in your sense may be changed when this Age is over, and when all those Emi­nent Instruments are dead; and then seeing there may be occasion to Watch for the Masters coming, it would be needful at least for the good of others if not for us, to set forth fairly, what you mean by this Age, and who certainly are those Eminent Instruments, and what this Dispensation is that you intend, that so when this Age is over and those Instruments are all dead, then People may prepare to watch for the Masters coming to change this Dispensation; all this and more is the Genuin Consequence of those Positions and assertions, which we must say, is as carnal as they'r pre­sumptious, and is a plain deferring of the Masters coming; and what followes but what ever did? A beating of your fel­low Servants; that this is truly the condition and danger of all those that assert as above, own or stand by it, is to us an undoubted truth, and therefore in order to awaken some and forwarn others we can do no less then assert, that he that is come, is yet to come, that so by a true watching and [Page 56]waiting for his coming some may avoid that great danger those are in, that deferr it.

And indeed this presumption that the Dispensation is not to be changed in this Age, is both your danger and mistake; for this makes the Dispensations of God to lie chiefly in outward Modes of Worship, in outward Forms of Disci­pline, and in the Government of Men, and this in stead of leading the mind to God, leads from him, because in stead of waiting for the Kingdom and Government of Christ, and the increase of it which is Spiritual, this sets up what is outward and Carnal, which may be altered and changed from one thing to another, and yet the mind unre­generated; and therefore those dispensations of God, that convert the soul to God are Spiritual, and are the same now they have been through all Ages, of which that unto Israel and the compleating of that Dispensation by our Savi­our is a true and perfect Figure to us and all men; but seeing you say there is to be no change of Dispensation in this Age, Pray when is it that you intend to Present those that depend on you, as chast Virgins to Christ? That they may be mar­ried unto him; for as this ought to be; so certainly you will allow in that State such may simply depend on him; it does not appear you intend it as long as you live because you say there is to be no variation or changing of Dispensa­tion in this Age and when may it be expected then? For those that succeed you in the Government may as justly de­ny a change of Dispensation in their Age as you do in this and to be sure they'l be as unwilling to allow of it as you; for why? They must bear the Image that you beget, and as they will make you their Authority they will build on you, as it has been through all the Reformations, and then as they are not like to know so much as some have done in this Age they'l be but bigotted the more; for indeed where there is not a constant waiting for the Lords Coming to do [Page 57]what he pleaseth with us, a false rest is set up, and such become as much as in them lyes the limiters of God and good Men, and the preventers of the further discoveries of the mind of God, but if we come to be a Figure of the Universal Church, of which Christ our Lord is truly head, we must know a change and alteration of the Dispensation by which this striv­ing for Mastership and Ceremony may cease and that in our Age, for 'tis certain that Gods appearance is twofold to Man in the work of restoring Man unto himself, and if we be of Spiritual Israel we must know a coming through the work of a first Covenant, before we can know the Second, whereupon it follows as there must be a Preparation before there can be a Choice, there is a Legal Dispensation to be known or passed through before that of the Gospel can be fully understood.

'Tis true if we could consider rightly that the end of all Gods dealing with men is to bring them to himselfe and se­cure them for the future against the attempts of the Enemy, we might call or esteem all Gospel, according to Address to Protestants (Page 82) where 'tis said the Law is the Gospel begun, the Gospel the Law fulfilled or finished, they cannot be parted, by the word parted we conceive he means the Gospel cannot come or be witnessed, except it begin in the Law; for when we consider that all men in their first State are concluded under sin, and that in the work of regeneration there is trouble before peace, and condemnation before Jus­tification, and that no suffering for the present seems Joyom, then may we say those dispensations of Law and Gospel, first and second Covenant are now in being and as distin­guishable to the Spiritual Traveller as ever.

'Tis true Christ our Lord is Heir of all things, but our first knowledge of him is in his descending, where he devests himself of his glory, in this he condescends to lay hold of us, or otherwise it were impossible for us to apprehend or lay [Page 58]hold of him, you know 'tis written the holy Spirit was not yet given because that Jesus was not yet glorified, and yet he both had Disciples and they was taught of him, nay when raised from the dead and they were still taught of him, they had not yet received the Holy Spirit, for he was not yet as­cended, but when the Power from on high came upon them, the true witness that Jesus was glorified, then they received the Holy Spirit that was to abide with them.

But to apply it, if our first knowledge of Christ be in his descending then must we know him ascend where he was be­fore, or the work cannot be compleated, but this cannot be without a change of dispensation; thus instead of deny­it we ought to wait for it. Again when we consider that since transgression at least Man is made under a Law wrote or to be wrote in the hearts or minds of all Men (of which that wrote in stone to Israel was but as a Figure) and that by this Law came the true knowledge of [...], and [...] this Ministration cannot pass away unfulfilled therefore does our Lord descend to assist us to fulfil this dispensation as a Servant, and differeth not from a Servant, tho he is Lord of all; you know he was made under the Law to Israel that he might redeem them truly prepared by it, from under the Law, and he is now as well as then a Minister of the Sanctu­ary and then must we not know him first under a Legal dis­pensation as well as then? For that dispensation given to Israel that he then fulfilled in the flesh was never given to us, and as that was not to continue, it is the Substance of that which remains, that we are to inquire out; God appeared by his servants, and by his Son to the house of Israel after the flesh; the first was to prepare, the latter to perfect; and those that are not faithful in the first part now, can not know the latter no more then Israel in the figure did, thus there may be a coming a great way in the first part of the work and yet miss in the latter.

Well then as there is a Servant state and Sons-state, the first is preparation, and answers to a Legal dispensation, or the ministration of Condemnation, but the latter being truly election or choice answers to that of the Gospel or Ministration of life, the first condemns the sinner, the lat­ter the sin, now as there must be preparation before there can be choice or Election the first State is absolutely needful, but yet as there is a better state there is a necessity to wait for a change of the first to all that comes truly to know the re­concilliation to God through the death of Christ; for as we cannot live unto the righteousness of Legal dispensation except we dye unto sin, so we cannot know true Sonship, except we know a dying to all our righteousness attain'd in the State of Preparation for we must have it before we can part with it.

In the first State we receive a Talent, and except we serve God with all our Strength, it cannot rightly be improv­ed, therefore must we put to our strength and thus we coope­rate with the grace given to make all according to the pattern shewed in the Holy Mount, and here we follow Christ in the Regeneration, that is in the begitting and quickning to fulfil the work given us to do, for we have a work to do; and as we do cooperate with the Talent to do that work something of the Man, something of the flesh remains, there­fore must we come in to the Death of Christ, which we can never truly know, except we first be quickned by him, so then quickning is preparation, but to come in to the death of Christ in the flesh is the perfecting the Covenant of works; you know, whilst our Lord was in the Flesh he told his Dis­ciples, he had overcome the World, but through death the Apo­stle tells us he destroyed him that had the power of death, and as there was two different dispensations then, in the restoration of man, they still continue, and the latter is as contrary to the former as that of our Lord was unto Moses, in the first we are Servants and if faithful we are so far from denying a [Page 60]change of dispensation that we daily wait for it, that we may give an account of the Improvement of the Tallent; for in that stands a change of the dispensation, the first State has life and death set before it, with a Promise of a reward or Punishment according as the creature is faithful or other­wise, and as faithful receive the good from time to time but as we do cooperate with the Tallent, this reaches no fur­ther then the Covenant of works, and as it can not make per­fect as to the new and Heavenly Man, 'tis needful to know what can; and that is the true knowledge of the mistery of Christs death in the flesh, for that perfectly reconciles unto God, by which the one Offering is known that perfects for ever them that are sanctified, for there only can the Wor­ker be freely offered up unto God wholly for a burnt Offer­ing, as a free Sacrifice, and then to die with Christ to the flesh is gain, thus is the Death of the Saints pleasant in the eyes of the Lord, it being the Sweetest Sacrifice because the more they die the more they live to God, this was the State the Apostle so much vallued as he esteemed to know nothing a­mongst them but Christ and him Crucified, and to be made confor­mable to his Death was his chief desire, that if possible he might attain to the resurrection of the dead, you see he was so far from limitting the dispensations of God to what he did know as he did not limit or seem to bound them short of attaining to the Resurrection of the dead.

And of this change of dispensation, we have a Figure in Abrams offering up of Isaac, God promised him a Son, he cooperated with the Promise to bring forth Isaac; that be­ing done, that there might be a distinction betwixt Work and Grace, tho its true if we speak generally all Gods deal­ing with Man to bring him unto himself is Grace, and thus the least measure given to profit with is truly Grace, but when we distinguish with respects to the work of God in Man by which the restoration is brought about and recon­ciliation [Page 61]wrought the latter is termed grace as opposed to that of Works, and that this distinction might be clear Abra­ham must offer up Isaac in whom the Promise stood, it was his all, and therefore in the offering of him up, the Ram the begetter or worker was discover'd behind the Bush, who was there before but not seen till now, but as soon as seen how gladly did Abram offer up the Ram to God wholly for a burnt Offering, O how gladly did Abraham part with the Ram, with the Worker and how easily when he saw that was all that was intended in this great tryal, and now Isaac is receiv­ed in the grace in the Second Covenant, and now and not before can it only be truly said, 'tis no more of work least any man should boast, no this act excludes the boasting and the boaster for ever, and as this throughly reconciles unto God so it perfectly destroyes the enmity, that arises about Opi­nion, and Ceremony, or about the Formallies of Form on a Religious score, the first part of the work shuts out Ishmael the Enemy as an evil doer, but the latter act shuts out or destroyes him as a Serpent, wherein he keeps up the enmities amongst the several professors of Religion; under the shew or likeness of Good, and so make Religion which should be the very cause of good will and Peace, to be cause of en­mity and strife; and this deceives poor Man, and if we were but Spiritually minded the Scripture would be found to be writ for our Learning and comfort, and is as applicable in Spiritual sense now as then in the Letter, wherein the Har­mony as well as the excellency appears. But the chief difference that we find in the dispensations (save that those were more outward, and these now are more inward) is, that what was then done in Israel, as a people or a Society, every particular or individual Men ought to wait to know done in and for himself, for Israel in the flesh came through those various states as Figures to Us; for Instance they were all in Egypt, passed through the Sea, received the [Page 62]Law, travelled the Wilderness, passed Jordan, and entred Ca­naan together; but 'tis not so now with any Society; and see­ing no Society on the account of Religion can be in one and the same State together, that Society that is the truest Figure of the universal Church of God must take in all those vari­ous States that fear God and work Righteousness, therefore a right Gospel Church, with respect to outward Society, is a comprehensive Church, and cannot shut out for Opinion; which deserves your most serious consideration, in relation to your Brethren at least.

But to apply what has been said to our case; as it is sure that every Man, that comes truly to be reconciled unto God, must know the dispensation changed in his Age; so 'tis as certain that what is to be done in one Man, ought to be done in all Men, and must be done in all, that comes truly to know the new and heavenly Man put on; but seeing this cannot be done in all at one time, as we are a Society, it must at least be done in our Elders or Leaders, or 'tis not possible that we should be as a Society, a true Figure of the Universal Church of God. For as are the Elders or Leaders, so is the People in a great measure that depend on them; and therefore if our Leaders have narrow Spirits and wrong Notions of things; the People must be so too, whereupon in followes if our Leaders deny a change of Dispensation and cease to travel, the People must needs do so too, and therefore whilest our Elders and Leaders know not a Change of Dispensation in this Age, which is, a coming through the mistery of Christs Death, and a dying with Christ to the flesh, by which the beauty of External things passeth away in the true Ministration of Life, as such cannot be dead with Christ to the Rudiments of the World, they will be burthened with their Opinions and Ordinances, and therein burthen others. We intreat you to Consider of this; for it was and is on this very foot, that the greatest part of all Religious Societies have fail'd; [Page 63]wherein their Leaders and Elders were allwayes most in fault. For they could allow of no variation or change of Dis­pensation but what they made themselves; and is not this mat­ter of fact? and therefore allwayes missed of the mind of God, both as he appear'd by his Son and by his Servants; it has been thus through all the Reformation, and was thus in that great example of Israel; for thô they received the Law to prepare, as a Schoolmaster to bring unto Christ, and did pre­tend to look for him, yet could not allow of the change of Dispensation that he brought, so sticking in their own Opi­nions and Judgements of things, in stead of receiving him, that should have perfected the work they had known begun, they rejected him, for they said, had any of the Rulers (that is Elders and Leaders,) believed? But the People that knew not the Law were accursed. And those were such as seem'd to have a great esteem for the Law, the first part of the work, yet taught for Doctrines the Commandments of men; by which the People were also misled that depended on them; and whilest you deny a change of Dispensation in this, Age, 'tis clear you stick in your own Opinions and Judgments, and are as truly in danger to miss the mind of God and mislead others, as any that have been before you.

But observe, for you know, or at least may, that whilest our Lord was in the flesh he was tyed unto the Jews, or however did appear so, and here he seem'd straitned or limited with respect to the rest of Mankind; but when he had ful­filled the work given him to do, as he dyed to the flesh of the Jew he became universal, giving Gentiles as well as Jews an enterance unto the Father by one Spirit, and of twain made one New Man, and cast off the seed of Abraham after the flesh, and chused his seed after the Spirit, from hence he took off all confidence in the flesh; for if the Jews had not herein to trust, surely no Society now can have wherein to trust on that account.

But the Apostle tells us, if the casting off the Jews was the riches of the World, what should be their receiving, but as life from the dead? And which way could this great benefit come un­to Mankind in their receiving [...] more then in this; that as then they should have known true reconci­liation unto God, they would have been acquainted with the various States that are to be passed through before that can be known; and then as they would have been truly fitted to have informed Mankind of the different effects of each, so their credit with all that had received Christ would have given them that advantage to have been believed; then should we have been truly informed, that generally speak­ing the work of God in restoring Man unto himself was really twofold? and that the first part, tho a glorious work, yet it was but to prepare and not to perfect; and as it was but to prepare, there was a necessity to wait to know the Dispensation changed. For had the Jews, as a Society received the Messiah, they would then have known him, to inlarge them in the Spirit, by taking away the confidence in the flesh; then with one voice they would have infor­med us, that whilest they continued in the first part of the work, thô it was glorious, yet their Spirits was narrow and shut up to the rest of Mankind, and their thoughts was chil­dish and partial toward God; for they did conclude, that because God had done so much for them, he had either forgotten or rejected all others, but receiving the Messiah as they would have known the Dispensation changed so they would have been inlarged in Spirit; then would they have informed us, that God was God of the Gentile as well as of the Jew, and that as he was Lord over all, so he was rich unto all that in truth called upon his Name; this would have morti­fied and slain all our strife about Forms, carnal Ordinances, Opinion and Ceremony; but alas in stead of coming as a Body or Society from the Form to the Power, coming out [Page 65]of or through the first Covenant Works and from under a Legal Dispensation, wherein the confidence in the flesh stood, as well as the warrs and strife, into the Second Covenant, in to the ministration of Life, where the good will and Peace is; that so they might have been a perfect Figure of the work of God with Man and therein been the great example to the World, as well of Gods Love and good will, as of that Righteousness and Justice which he required; they stuck in the first part of the work; and so that Elect and Pretious Stone, that laid in Sion, became to them a stumbling Stone and Rock of Offence, for tho they seemed to own and magnifie Moses and the Prophets dis­pensation, which God owned and appointed, yet not owning the Change of Dispensation in the Messiah, they became as a Sect, too narrow in their Minds and Spirits, to make known the good unto Mankind in­tended in their chusing; for the casting them off singly was not the riches of the World; but because they stuck in the flesh, and could not follow the Lord fully, as their Father Abram did, to manifest the good, they must be casten off or else it could not have been known, thus it is clear they was rejected and casten off because they denyed the Change of Dispensation, which should have inlarged them in Spirit, to have been the blessing of Nations.

Pray consider if something of this hath not attended all the Reformations according to their respective Interest; they could never as a body receive those further appear­ances of God testifyed unto by such as the Lord sent and and made use of; and therefore stuck in a fleshly knowledg of what they first knew or received, like the Jews, which tho good in it self so far as it reacht, but not consider­ing that as God has done great things for them, he could still do greater, they durst never trust him in the deliver­ing up of the Tallent therefore in stead of becoming more [Page 66]Spiritual, they stuck in the flesh; so that we may see in some sort what is of Man comes to be manifested in a So­ciety which is one body on a religious score, and that is flesh and Spirit, which can never be reconciled, and there­fore the one must prevail, and accordingly as they prevail that body may be denominated, but in particular Persons we have seen the flesh overcom'd and that universallity of Spirit brought forth testified too in the birth of Christ, yet tru­ly there wants the Example in a body or Society of Men, so needful so necessary for the honour of God, and the Peace of Mankind; and from hence have come those seperations and Divisions that have been and must continue till Shilo come. And now you are upon the Stage, and more may be expected from you then others, by how much you con­clude God to have done more for you then others; and as you pretend more unto the Spirit then others. If then you do resemble Spiritual Israel more then others, you must wait to place your Unity not upon the Professor of the Truth, for he may be but as the fleshly child of Abra­ham, but upon the Possessor, and upon all travelling for Sion, tho so ignorant of the way, that they weep because they know it no better. For 'tis those and not the former that follow the Lord where ever he leads, and those he will own for ever, whether they be known unto the World or worldly Professors, or not, he knowes them, and is ga­thering them together in one, by destroying the enmity as it stands in carnal Ordinances; and doth declare now, as he did by his Apostle that of every Nation those that fear God and work righteousness are accepted of him; and what is accepted of God ought to be accepted of Man; and therefore if you conceive you are Leaders (not of Israel in the flesh, but of Israel in the Spirit, you must know your Spirits inlarged, that you may own what God owns; for as our Principal is universal, our good will ought to be as [Page 67]large to the Children of Men, for consider, an Ʋniversal principle and a narrow limited Spirit are inconsistant. But this can never be without a change of the Dispensation come, you know Israel after the flesh was to allow the Gen­tile to worship God in the outward Court. Pray mind then if their outward Court was not larger then ours? 'Tis true they had an inward Court, that such could not come to, till Circumcised; was there then an outward Court, and an inward; and have not we what answers to them now? What is sit for the Society of good Men, may not that very well be allowed to come into our Society or out­ward Court? For they who do not come thus farr, cannot come into the inward Court, yet seeing they must come to the outward before the inward, shall not we al­low them here? Testifying at the same time to the Inward Court, which none can come to but by the true Circumci­sion in Spirit. Thus it is clear, if our Outward Court were but a little more large, our Inward Court would cer­tainly be the more prized vallued and sought after. Again you know the Leader in Israel, in their Travel from Egypt to Canaan, was to Travel according to the least of Israel, and did allwayes own such as were Circumcised, tho at eight dayes old to be of the Church of God in the Figure; and pray will not this hold as true to Spiritual Israel? What is Circumcision in the flesh now but a holy Conver­sation performed in the fear of God? For as this is so far accepted of God it really fits for the Society of good men, and therefore its impossible it should be rejected of that People or Society or Church that is a true Figure of the Church of God; now least you should run this into an ex­tream, we will at present bound it with respect to your Brethen, who have come out and suffered with you for the Testimony of a good Conscience, and do yet in your own sense agree with you in the worship and Doctrines of truth; and [Page 68]yet for all this are shut out and excluded by you, for not complying with you in your Opinions, yea meer Opinions; for that they are such, is put out of doubt, when you tell us, those things of Difference do not relate to Faith, Con­science or Religion. We beseech you to be serious, for this evidently makes manifest the narrowness of your Spi­rits, and that narrowness of Spirit demonstrates a necessity for you to know a change of the Dispensation. For 'tis impossible whiles you thus remain that you should be that Figure of the true Church, to which the gathering can be, by bringing forth that peace on Earth that good will to Men, and glory to God on high; where only the Swords are beaten into Plowshares, and Spears into Pruning Hookes; 'tis this and the glory of this, to which the gathering of the People must be; we saw something of this in our coming forth, as our testimony against all force, wrath and sighting with carnal weapons do testifie.

But alas! Not truly travelling in Spirit to know the work compleated, we have not yet come to know the substance of what was seen in the Vision, without which the other will prove but as a dead and Formal business. Nor can you know this without a change of the dispensation, and there­fore whiles you conclude against it in your mind, it is clear to us, you stick in the works of a first Covenant, and abide but under a Legal Dispensation, and tho you ap­pear to be against the Enemy as as an evil doer, that is no more then others have done before you; but not knowing the Dispensation changed; tho the Enemy does not attach you with what is evil and Immoral, yet he deceives you as a Ser­pent, as is apparent in this noise you make about your Opi­nions, and further clear in this Narrowness of Spirit that appears amongst you, as is amongst the various pro­fessors of Religion, that except you wait to know the Dis­pensation changed, the Serpent will beguile you as he has [Page 69]done others; forin that appearance he cannot be destroyed; but as we come in to the Death of Christ to the flesh and know the Mistery of it. We intreat you to consider of those things seriously and in the fear of God, that the good will and love that is known in the writing those things may be felt; and then tho much might be said about this matter, yet may this suffice, but if in stead of considering them, you will contest them by your cunning; then if the Lord see't meet, more may be said; but in the intrim this may serve.

As little as this Book is, many more things might be ob­jected against; we shall chiefly take notice of one passage more in the 11. Page and with it conclude; it followes (sayes our Author) I would therefore beseech you Friends to ponder it in your own minds upon what a narrow point your distance stands, and that the main and tender point is allowed you, viz. Conscience is free and unconcern'd in the question and the visible ground of Difference being so small weigh with your selves by what has been, what may be the consequence of this lamentable breach, &c.

Answer, As little as this distance is made by you, we do not find it fairly set out; we will indeavour to set it forth as it is without any reserve, that we may come to a clear Issue with you in the matter; and first wee'l take no­tice how farr we agree in your sense according to your con­fesions in this Epistle, that so a better and clearer Judgment may be made of the difference (Page the 2) you grant we are one in Judgment with you in the Worship and Doctrines of truth; therefore in those Essential Points we cannot differ in your sense, which we desire may be noted for the future. Further you say, We own the end, that is, of good Order in the Society, for that must be intended or nothing; and not only so but you say, We allow of the means, which can be no less then such fitting Method; as may answer that end, [Page 70] Page 11.) Thus in your own sense, if you are ingenious, in your confessions, we cannot want what is essential to demonstrate our Duty to God or Men: We own Women are concern'd in Conversation, having Souls to save as well as Men; we allow they may Meet apart from Men on some distinct occasions; we Impose no new Oppinion nor obtrude any new Method in Discipline; You neither do nor have any thing to charge us with that is Immoral or evil; Pray then let not the Bear skin be put on us for the future let things appear as they are.

For on your part 'tis clear that you make the difference to stand and arise from those things, which under the No­tion of Elders you have brought in and exhorted to; we Joyn Issue with you here, and say 'tis true, the difference stand here as to matter of fact, or what does externally ap­pear; but we say our Dissatisfaction is deeper; it is with that Spirit and Power, that without reserve requires complience with what under the notion of Elders you exhort too; it is here we place the ground of our Difference and Dis­satisfaction: We intreat you to be serious: for we most surely believe, that the allowing in our case such a power to Man under the Notion of Eldership begets and leads into an Implicit reverence and blind obedience, and so directly leads into Ignorance and slavery: And as the first is incon­sistent with the true knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; so is the latter with that freedom we ought to Injoy, as we are a free and voluntary Society. Now we say, had you practised Womens Meetings, as believing a Service in them, and only recommended them to be used as a Service was found, we believe we should not have open­ly opposed; hoping as the liberty of examination (the un­doubted right of every true Christian) had been truly and conscientiously preserved by you; things that had been wrong would have dyed of themselves, but when instead of [Page 71]recommending, you injoyn, & when in stead of leaving things to be freely examined, you add all the force and skill you have to uphold them, no way is left for us to stand clear in our Consciences to God; but in standing fast in that free­dom and liberty our Lord has purchased for us; nor any other way have we left to indeavour to undeceive you and others, but by shewing our dissatisfaction. For to be si­lent here, is to give consent; and what strengthens wrong, can never take it away. Meeting therefore with this Power that is wrong exerted in this of Womens Meetings, its here then the difference must stand as to matter of fact; and as the allowing of this Power does in our Judgment and un­derstanding (as above) bring in Ignorance and slavery, therefore we say if the things might be of some service in some places, yet to Impose them universally upon the Society is wrong, and we are in Conscience bound to refuse them, as against the truth, and distructive to our Christian Freedom, as it stands in the Liberty of Exa­mination and choice. Therefore though the thing cannot be said to be simply evil in it selfe, yet the consequence is evil, and we are bound to shun and avoid the appearance of evil as well as the evil it self. Thus the Issue of this great business must stand as stated Page 20. and 21. that is, there must be a necessity for those things that you bring in against your Brethrens consent, or you must set forth that you have a right under the Notion of Elders to Impose upon the Society that for which in truth there is no necessity. For now we say in plain words there is no Necessity for Womens constant distinct Meeting for Government in our Societies, and deny that you have any Power lodged in you under the Notion of Eldership, by Virtue of our constitution, to bring or Impose upon Us that which in truth there is no Ne­cessity for.

First, that there is no necessity for Womens Meetings as [Page 72]above, is clear from the Practice of Friends, whiles we had them not, as well as from the Practise of such now as have them not, and yet owns the same Principle: Again, the Practice of all Christians from the beginning demon­strate there can be no necessity for them in a general way, as insisted on by you. For if there had been a necessity for them to Order or Government, they could not have been without them; seeing what there is a necessity for, is as Es­sential to the being of that thing. But 'tis matter of fact, that they have all done, the business of their respective So­cieties without this Mode contended for by you, therefore we may safely conclude there can be no necessity for Wo­mens constant and distinct Meetings for Government in our Society; and indeed if things are brought in to the Society against the minds of your Brethren, by which dif­ference arises, nothing can justifie the proceeding on your part but a necessity for the thing. For if this of Necessi­ty be not consider'd in our case as abounder, a door is o­pened to fill us with Opinions and Ceremony, seeing there wants nothing to introduce them but a specious Pretence, which never fail'd to wait on such as affect Go­vernment, or reflect on their own abillities for it. Now as there can be no necessity for Womens constant Meeting for Government, for you to claim Power, under the No­tion of Elders to bring in to the Society against the minds of your Brethren such things as in truth there is no Necessity for, this we say is a violence done to our Constitution, as we imbodied a free and voluntary Society and is also against the truth of our Principle and Opinion.

First, that it is a violence to our Constitution is clear for you know in our coming forth we did not choose any Elders to depend on, nor indeed could we according to our Profession; for as we asserted that Christ our Lord was come in Spirit to teach and govern us, a teacher that as he [Page 73]could not be removed into a corner, so he was only sufficient. And therefore the preheminence was to be given to him in all things. Thus it would have been a gainst his Honour, and the truth of what we professed, to have chosen any Man to have depended upon; when Christ was come in Spirit to teach and govern, to depend on Man to do it, was to neglect the Fountain and chuse the Cistern; therefore as we neither did nor could, according to the truth of our Principle, chuse any Men to depend on, under any Name or Notion whatsoever, for any to chuse or Impose them­selves upon Us, is wrong to Us, and a violence offered to our Constitution. For in short, observe; it is really Igno­rance of the sufficiency of Christ to chuse any Man so much as Men­tally to depend on. But 'tis Slavery to have others to chuse for or Impose themselves or their choice upon Us. You know as Christ our Lord was own'd to be come in Spirit to teach and Govern us, we were to bring all our thoughts words and deeds to him, that we might know the truth in what we thought said or did; for we were not to be our own but his; and as we were to bring our own words and deeds to him, certainly we were to bring the words and deeds of all others to him in which we were to be concernd. For as we could not know the truth of what we did our selves, but by the testimony or approbation of his Spirit, so 'tis beyond contradiction we can not know the words and deeds of others to be from the truth any other way; thus conviction or perswasion brought us toge­ther, and that must be preserved still inviolably, or we can not continue a free People, examination of what we were to receive from others was truly asserted, as our undoubted right in our coming forth, and as the truth is but one, the reason is the same now as well as then, therefore to Impose an Eldership upon Us under any pretence whatsoever, as it destroyes or takes away the Liberty of Examination, 'tis a [Page 74]violence done to our Constitution. Indeed what is brought in by violence must needs be upheld by force, or otherwise it will dye and come to nothing of it self; thus the force and strife you have used to uphold what you have brought in by violence demonstrate you more wrong then any argument we can use; when 'tis but seriously considered, that it is not Truth but Error that loses by tryal; nay the truth only gains the most when freely examined and tryed, and error loses most that way; what can discover your wrongness more then the denying a free Examination? For where that is taken away the prevailing of those things cannot be owing to the truth, but the force and conquest of Men; which as it is directly contrary to a free examination and choice, so 'tis beyond contradiction a violence done to our Constituti­on as we are a free and volluntary Society confessing but one Lord and head.

And as the bringing into our Society things for which there appear no necessity, and requiring complyance under the no­tion of Eldership, is a Violence done to our Constitution; so 'tis against the truth of our Principle & Profession. For you know, the Lord from Heaven the second Adam, the quickning Spirit, the true Light that lighteth all Men coming into the World is Professed to be our foundation and asserted by us to be sufficient to lead into all truth all that truly adhere to him. Now it must follow, whilest we thus confess him, that we truly adhere to him, or we do not, if we truly adhere to him, we must according to the truth of what we profess know his sufficiency, and where the sufficiency of Christ our Lord is truly known such can not depend on Man, no 'tis Impossible, as in the Natural Figure, the Moon and Starrs do shew us light, but 'tis in the dark, 'tis in the night; therefore when the Sun comes, thô it does not take away that light, which the Moon and Stares have as to themselves, yet to us it takes it away, so that it is impossible, thô we had a mind to de­pend [Page 75]on that Light or have any benefit from it; and we are sure the Sun of righteousness, as he arises in the Soul, doth as much fulfill the Service and transcend the light of the Instrument; therefore on this foot we are to call no Man Doctor, Master, Father or Elder on Earth by way of Pre­heminence for our dependance; because one is our Doctor, Master, Father, and Elder in Heaven; and all such as are thus taught of him are Brethren; Christ and his Disciples in the dayes of his flesh are a true Figure of this; for he chose his Disciples they did not chuse him; and as he chose them out of the World they was simply to depend upon him, not one upon another; therefore when they thought of depending one upon another by consulting who should be the greatest amongst them, our Lord corrected their mistake and in them yours, if you lay claim to the like choice, by telling them the Elder should be as the Younger, and he that rul'd as he that served, nay, he that would be the greatest a­mong them, must be Servant to all the rest; then not Lord or Master to Impose upon the rest; and as he told them they should call no Man Master, Doctor or Father, so he forbad them to be called soe; and we are sure it was the thing, as well as the Name, that was intended; whereupon it followes, that to seek this Preheminence by desiring this dependance under the Notion of Eldership, as it is contrary to the truth of our Principle and Profession, so 'tis against the very Sence and meaning of the Command of our Lord and Sa­viour Jesus Christ. For this is to come in your own Name and not in his.

But on the other hand, whilst we confess the Lord is come to teach and govern, if we do not truly adhere to him, as such can not know the truth of what they do profess, so 'tis cer­tain such do not truly believe in him; and if such think that want shall be supplyed by depending upon you; or that this is Christs Government, to be subject unto yours, they [Page 76]are Miserably mistaken. And truly whilst you seek this de­pendance under the Notion of Eldership, you contribute to their mistake and are guilty of the Ignorance and Error such are in; for as (in the Figure above) the Disciples were not to gather unto themselves, but unto their Lord, knowing none could be truly taught except they came to him, so they knew that if they did come to him, he was suf­ficient, and therefore having brought 'em to him they did not interpose, We have found the Messiah said one, Jesus of Nazareth, can any good come out of Nazareth? Come and see, try thy selfe, and then thou'l have the same ground to trust that we have, or to this effect; and tis true according to our Profession, that Christ our Lord is now as able to teach, and may be now as easily come to as then; who is it then that dare strive for their Opinions, whilest such acknowledge the Lord is present? Thus if you were the Servants of Christ you must gather to him, and not to your selves; for we can not be the Disciples of Christ till we hear him our selves, nor followers of him till we know him go before us, and this we can not truly know whilest we depend on you or any Man. True Religion is founded on those two Com­mands, to love God with all our heart and our Neighbour as our selves; here's both our Duty to God and Men included; and Christ our Lord teacheth the latter as well as the for­mer; and those that know not something of the truth of those things in their own minds, under our Profession are not yet come in to the School of Christ. Pray therefore let the People know that as Christ is head to the true Churh in all things, he must be head to every Man in all things, that is a Member of this Church: So that to be of this Church is quite another thing then to be of any [...] Socie­ty whatever, (Address to Protestants Page 177) this build­ing is rear'd without noise strife and contention; 'tis like its Figure the Temple built at Jerusalem in Solomons Peaceful [Page 77]Reign no Axe or Hammer heard there; all that at best is but in the Preparation, which so many have mistaken for the choice: And so in stead of travelling for the true rest have set up a false one, growing great in stead of being humble, dispising others in overvalluing themselves. For all this noise and strife in the best sense is amongst the Ser­vants and Workmen, amongst the drawers of Water, and hewers of Wood, and not among the Children and Sons of God. Now your Service if you have any is to bring to Christ, the true knowledge of him ends the strife and the noise. For those that sit at his feet truly to hear him are quiet, and as they have chosen the better part, soe are they not cumbred about many things. And as your Service is to bring to him, you ought to indeavour honestly to take out of the way whatever hinders coming to him, and indeed in this case, that is your own self hood, your affected and desired Elderships for this is to bear witness to your selves, by seeking a relyance and dependance upon you, and this be­gets into Sects and Divisions; for 'tis sure while the People depend on you ot any Man, they neither do nor can know the sufficiency of Christ our Lord. Pray therefore con­sider, that to seek this dependance upon you under the No­tion of Eldership is really against the truth of our Principle and Profession. For if you prevail it will fix the People in that which can never perfect, for all that depend on you, as they must allwayes be learning of you, such can never be able to know the truth as it is in Jesus; as it allwayes falls out where Persons on a Religious score seek to bear Rule by their own means, and the People love to have it so; and as on this foot you will still grow more narrow in your minds and Spirits, as true and just a seperation may be from you as any other People heretofore. We intreat you to weigh the matter, that so you may throw down your Crowns at the feet of Jesus, who alone is worthy to raign, according to our Testimony in our beginning.

Objection, But perhaps you will say, It is true Christ our Lord is sufficient for all that truly adhere to him; but all that Profess him do not adhere to him, and 'tis for their Souls that an Eldership is necessary, and that we are thus concerned that a check may be upon all Practice, as an expediency against Irregularity in Conversation, whether toward them that are without, or them that are within the same Communion, to which the strong will submit for the sake of the Weak, &c. Page the 9.

Answer, It seems your care is about those that do not truly adhere to Christ, and for the securing of them; you ought to be cautious that you do not burthen the Conscience of those that are faithful, for if what is good and evil could not be known and Judged of without Womens Meetings for Government, it were something to the purpose; but since it is clear it may, this seems but an Artifice to seek to inslave such as are conscientious and sincere to God, under pretence of taking care for those that are not; and is but a subtill argument to make way for the setting up Mans Go­vernment in stead of Christs; for what is this but to say we are not to examine what you bring in whiles yon pretend to apply it to some good end? But if we do examin things and truly find they tend to Formallity and leads into Igno­rance and Slavery, yet we must dissemble our conviction and dishonour our head to please you, whats this but to endeavour to make us owe more to you for Government then we do to the Civil Magistrate? 'Tis true We are to Obey every Ordinance of Man for the Lords sake, but yet we do not this blindfold; for as we are the Servants of Christ, and own him for our Lord and Head, we must examine what Man Injoyns, and if in our understanding it agrees with the truth we are bound in Conscience to obey: But if it do not, then Conscience rather obliges to suffer then dishonour our Head. And will you not allow us that berty without making us suffer, which you take and insist [Page 79]upon as a right. You know Christ our Lord is one in all, and cannot deny but that he ought to be the Head of every Man, and where he is truly head, we affirm, such can do no less with respect to his Honour, then examine what they are to receive, and to be singular here, or of the lesser numbers is so farr from being wrong or a hazzard, that it is only just and safe. But perhaps you will Object, shall not the evil doer be dealt with?

We Answer Yes; for as we have granted this before we here confirm it; but then, who is this evil doer, ought to be considered. For you know, you ought (according to Ad­dress to Protestants (Page 99) to make no other distinction of good and evil then God has made; it followes then you shall know them by their fruits (sayes Christ) So (say you) shall Men know them that sincerely believe, and confess Christ by their sanctified Manners, and blameless Conversation, and (mark) Woe unto them that make other distinctions (pray mind it,) for God has made no other. (again) there will be but Goats and Sheep at the last, Holy and unholy, Just and unjust; therefore (say you) let that be our distinction (observe it) which ever was and will be Gods distinction; for all other measures (pray mind) are the effects of the Passions and Presumptions of Men. Pray apply it; and, if you can but give what you have asserted to be right to receive, Contention will be laid asleep among us, for had you made no other distinctions then God has made, we'd had no difference.

But again, perhaps you will say, this is to make void the Service of Instruments and to deny an Eldership in the Church of Christ.

Answer, No we truly own both in a right sense, but we say the Service of those Instruments that the Lord sends are to be fulfilled on a Spiritual account, and therefore such as come in the Name of Christ; gather to him and not unto themselves; for like their Master they bear witness to the truth and make [Page 80]themselves of no Reputation, throwing their Crowns down constantly at the feet of their Lord, affirming freely as well as truly that their Service must be fulfilled for Righ­teousness sake by every one that comes to know the Lord present and sufficient. For where Christ takes the Govern­ment the Service of the Instrument is swallowed up; and therefore must as really decrease, as in the Baptist's time; and they that do not Preach it as well as he know not that self denyal he taught; and yet the least in the Kingdom is greater then he.

And as to Elders, they are such as are more grown up in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ then others are, and 'tis true their Service is to go Armed before their Brethren, in Order to lead them into rest, which their Souls have tasted of; and by bringing them into that State, that their Service might be discharged, such seek not then to set it up as perpetual, but to have it finished; of this we have a Figure in those of Israel that received the Lot of their Inheritance, before they pass'd over Jordan, yet were they strong Men to go Armed before their Brethren, but it was as their Servants not as their Masters. For they was not to be followed but as they were the followers of Joshua the Figure of the true Jesus; and here both them that did follow, and them that went before did know that their Service of going before was to be fulfilled and dis­charged, so that as the one part did truly desire rest, that they should have no occasion for their Brethren's Service, so did the other both desire and expect it, that they might be discharged of it; and this is a true Figure of the Eldership in Christ. For indeed as such are more grown up into the Nature and Spirit of our Lord, by so much they do the more resemble him in his selfdenyal humility and Service. So that tho they go Armed before their Brethren, yet they freely affirm their Brethren are not to follow them, but as [Page 81]they are the followers of Christ; and all true followers of such Elders might have a measure of the same Spirit; therefore all such Elders direct to the Spirit of Truth. For without that they can neither be truly known or followed. But such Elders like their Master makes little Figure in the World, and therefore cannot be known aright but in a Spiritual way, and are as little known as followed. But that the Practices of such may be the better known, we will remind you of what you have recommended to o­ther, which if but truly observed might help us much in our case. You give it in your 5th Cause of Persecution, Address to Protestants Pages 241) it followes another rea­son (of Persecution) and that no small one, is selfe-love and Impatiency of Men under contradiction, be it out of Igno­rance, that they are angry with what they cannot refute, or out of private Interest it matters not, their Opinion must Reign alone they are tenacious of their own sense, and cannot endure to have it questioned, be there never so much reason for it, Men of these Passions are yet to learn, they are Igno­rant of Religion by the want they have of Mortification, such Persons can easily let go their hold on Charity to lay violent hands upon their opposers if they have Power they rarely fail to use it so, not remembring, that when they absolved them­selves from the tye of Love, Meekness and Patience they have abandoned true Religion, and contend not for the Faith once delivered to the Saints which stood therein, but for meer words;

It is here that proud flesh and a capricious head disputes for Religion, and not an humble heart, and Divine frame of Spirit. Men that are angry for God, Passionate for Christ, and that call Names for Religion and slings Stones and Persecute for Faith, may tell us they are Christians if they will, but no body would know them to be such by their fruits; to be sure they are no Christians of Christs making, I would to [Page 82]God the disputants of our time did but calmly weigh the Irre­ligiousness of their own heats for Religion, and see if what they contend for will quit the Cost, will countervail the Charge of departing from Charity and making a Sacrifice for Peace to gain their Points; upon so seasonable a reflection I am confident they would find that they rather shew their love to Opinion then truth, and seek Victory more then Concord.

Could men (Pray mind it) be contented, as he whom they call their Lord was, to declare their Message and not strive for Proselites, nor vex for Conquest, they would recommend all to the Conscience, and, if it must be so, patiently endure contradiction too, and so lay their Religion, as he did his, not in violence but in suffering. But I must freely profess, and in duty and Conscience I do it, that I cannot call that Religion which is introduced against the Lawes of Love, Meekness and Friendship: Superstition, interest or Faction I may. There is a Zeal without knowledge, that is Super­stition, there is a Zeal against Knowledge, that is Interest or Faction, the true Heresie; there is a Zeal with Knowledge that is Religion. Therefore blind Obedience may be Supersti­tion, it can't be Religion, and if you will view the Countrys of Cruelty, you shall find them Superstitious rather then Re­ligious. Religion is gentle, it makes Men better, more friendly, loving, and Patient, then before, and the success which followed Christianity, while the Antient Professors of it betook themselves to no other defence, plainly proves the force of those passive Arguments above all corporal punishments, and that we must never hope for the same Prosperity till we fall into the same Methods. Are Men Impatient of having their conceits owned? They are then most to be suspected (pray mind it) Error and Superstition, like crackt Titles, only fear to be searcht and run and cry for Authority and number. Truth is plain and stedfast without Arts or tricks; will you receive her, well; if not, there is no compulsion. But pray [Page 83]tell me, what is that desired Ʋniformity that has not Ʋnity, and that Ʋnity which has not Love Meekness and Patience in it? I beseech you hear me, for those Men depart from the Spirit of Christianity, that seek with Anger and Froward­ness to promote it. Let us not put so miserable a Cheat upon our selves, nor such an affront upon Christianity, as to think that a most gentle and Patient Religion can be advanced by most ingentle and impatient wayes. I should sooner submit to an humble Opposion, then to the greatest Zealot in the World, and sooner deliver my self up to him that would modestly drop a Controverted truth, then to such as seek tempestiously to carry it, &c. I have quoted this largely, it is both so Christian and pertinent to our purpose; for certainly you ought to practise what you have advised others to, for the little foxes are to be taken as well as the great one, and not only persecution removed, as it stands in Corporal Punishments. but the ground of it: And certainly such as are true Elders in Christ's Church will write after this Copy; and therefore 'tis impossible they should strive for their Opinion, no that is not the way into the Kingdom and patience of the Son of God. So that like their Lord and Master, if they have any Government, they take it by Patience and suffering; which as it is contrary to the Kingdom and Government of this World, so 'tis contrary to the nature, end and aim of all the carnal Professions of Religion, but how Conform you are to the one and contrary to the other, is clear, by the Imposing of your Opinions. For 'tis matter of fact, that the Imposing of your Opinions contrary to what is above hath been the occasion both of our dissatisfaction and division; and pray what are these Opinions, but a Circumstance and Ceremony: Now for you to indeavour to destroy the liberty of Examination on purpose that you may bring in your opinions, that are but as Circumstance and Ceremony, this makes way for Lordship and Dominion, and that can [Page 84]not come in, but Ignorance and Slavery must follow. For not to Examine what we are to receive is to be Ignorant, but to be deprived of Choice is the Origi­nal of Slavery. Indeed if we must be inslav'd after our Confession to so much Freedom and understanding, Ig­norance seems the best Medium to make us Patient to bear it; whiles to know and to be Imposed upon must needs be grievous. In short, there is nothing that can emonstrate you more to be the Servants of Christ and that you truly honour him, then when like him, you can freely leave what you Propose to be Examin'd if true. But how much more ought you to avoid the Im­posing of your Opinions: For if we must receive things because you say it, and not because we know them to be true; Our Building then like others will be on humane Authority, and not on the truth; and as nothing can more manifest you to be dead unto self, and to the Rudiments and wayes of the World in this matter, and so alive unto God, then when you can freely leave what you bring to be examined; so nothing can more conduce to conserve that honour we owe unto the Lord our Head, preserve us a knowing and understanding People, and secure us from be­ing Imposed upon, then for us conscienciously to reserve and keep the Liberty of Examination. For once let that go through any confidence in Man and as the Reverance is Im­plicit, the Obedience is blind; 'tis no matter what Name of distinction those Men go under, to whom we pay an Implicit Veneration; Ignorance and Slavery must follow: and where the effect is the same, the cause cannot differ in or about the [...] of Men. When we consider what you have wrote against Imposition at divers times, and particularly in Address to Protestants; the second part being wholly to that purpose; what can thinking Men say, but that you shewed your parts well against Imposition, [Page 85]as many had done before; but when you should have giv­en the Example unto the World, (which indeed they want in a Body of Men on a Religious score,) and so have proved the truth of your Precepts or good Advice by your own Practise, here you fail'd and have been as difficient as others. So blind is self, so partial is Interest, that Men cannot make the case of others their own; and therefore do not give what themselves did but just now Insist to re­ceive, not as a favour but as a right, and this hath blast­ed all the Reformation to this day. It was not for no­thing that Israel was commanded not to oppress Strangers; no certainly it ought to teach you to have been kind upon the account of Conscience to Dissenters, who had suffer'd your selves so much for the one, and pleaded so little for the other.

Indeed had you but cordially made the case of other your own; and applyed unto your selves what you wrote to others, but in Address to Protestants; it would have been needless to have inserted any part of it here, because you could not but have freely given unto your Brethren what you insisted to receive from others; and then we should have had no difference, and that it is more blessed to give then to receive, as its greater to shew mercy then to receive it, is certainly true. But not doing this, but in stead of it to recriminate Persons for seperateing, and for being dissatis­fyed is the occasion that we have quoted Address to Pro­testants several times, and do yet further add some passages; the first is Pages 79 & 80. where you say, to conclude, if ye desire Peace, Love, Truth, seek Piety, and hate Hypocri­sie, discard all those things called Articles of Faith and Can­nons of the Church, that are not to be found in express terms of Scripture, or so plainly Authorized by Scripture, as may with ease be discerned by every honest and Conscientious Per­son; and in room of numerous and disputed Opinions made [Page 86]the bonds of external communion, lest some plain general and necessary truths be laid down, and let them be few.

Was it right in those you wrote too, to take away those things? And is it not wrong in you to impose such things as give Occasion? And if it was just and right in them to take theirs away, is it not right in you to take yours away? There is nothing but self-love that can hinder, For it will hold as true in our case, being nothing but the Old Cause new Varnisht. But to go on (in Address to Protestants 85 Page) you tell us, that the belief of Jesus of Nazereth to be the Messiah, the Son and Christ of God, sent to restore and save Mankind, is the first, and was then the only re­quisit Article of Faith, without any large confessions, or a heap of Principles and Opinions, &c. And you proceed to prove this confession truly made to be sufficient for Com­munion, and to that end also answer all the usual Objections Page 91 and 92; the last Objection is this, say you, if it be alledged that this will take in all Parties, yee that Schisma­ticks and Hereticks will creep in under this Confession, since few of them will refuse to make it; to this you answer, I do say (sayes the Author) 'twould be an happy day, what Man loves God and Christ, seeks Peace and concord, that would not rejoyce if all our Animosities and vexations about mat­ters of Religion were buryed in this one Confession of Jesus the great Author and Lord of the Christian Religion, so often lost in pretending to contest for it? O Friends! Have not you been greatly wanting to the World here in an exam­ple to your Brethren? whom you acknowledge to be one with you in the Worship and Doctrine of Truth, and therefore can never want those requesit Articles for Com­munion. O that you could see in this your day of tryal the things that belong to your Peace! Now that you may not think much that we should thus remind you, because [Page 87]we are to examine what we are to receive, we will take notice of a little part that you have quoted out of Jacobus Auntius to strengthen what you there write, and there­fore ought to be of more force to conclude you. You beg [...]n with him in the 157 Page and continue to the 172 to the same purpose; but the Place we note is in 162 and followes thus and because a thing will be so much the bet­ter preserved, by how much the greater is the Number of those that keep it, the People oughe often to be put in mind that both the Reading of the Scriptures and the care of Religion belong, nor to the Pastors of the Church only. (that is in our case not to the Preachers and Elders only) but that every one that would be saved (Pray mark it) ought to make dilli, gent search whether corruption be all ready or (mind it) is for the future like to be introduced, and (mark) this to do no less carefully than if he was perswaded that all besides him­selfe was asleep, (no fear then or hazzard of being singular) and (mind) whatsoever is wont to take off the Common People (that is such as are neither Elders nor Pastors) from such stud­dy, care must be taken that that shing (observe) be wholly taken away. And pray who must take this away in our case but the Preachers and Elders? And how must they take it away but by letting every one know that is neither Preachers nor Elders, that if they expect to be saved, the care of Religion belongs to them as well as it doth to the Preachers and Elders, and therefore they ought to examine things and not to believe them true only because such as esteem themselves Pastors and Elders say it; but because they themselves know they are true. And we are sure if this will hold any where it will hold in our case; where we confess but one Lord and Head. But allas! Instead of this good Method to take away what hurts Examination, you are endeavouring all you can to establish and confirm what you ought to take away, telling us, those things do [Page 88]not belong to Faith Conscience and Religion, and so not to us to Examine that are to be govern'd and rul'd, but to you that are our Elders and Teachers; for that is the Natural Consequence of this great strife for your Opi­nions. But as what is above proves we ought to Examine things and that strictly, so what followes confirms that we ought to have a choise as well as Examination. For in Page 149 it followes, to check this exhorbitancy the Apostle Paul demands, Who art thou that Judgest anothers Servant? To his own Lord he stands or falls; which shewes with great evidence (say you) that Christians of all sorts great and small, are but Brethren (to be sure) and consequently (Pray mark) all Supe­riority, Lordship, and Imposition are excluded (to be sure.) But if there be a difference (among Christians) 'tis in this, that as Christ taught, he that is greatest is to be Servant to the rest; (but say you) what is more opposice to a Servant then a Lord? And to Service then Injunction, and that on Penalties too? Here it is that Christ is only Lord and Lawgiver, who is only King of this inward Kingdom of the Soul; and 'tis to be noted (observe) that the Apostle did not write this to a private Brother, or in some special case, but to the Church (observe) as a general standing truth and therefore (say you) now as au­thentick and proper as then; and if this be true, I cannot see (sayes our Author) how any or even the most part of the Church (observe for it is patt to our case,) that are still but Brethren to the rest, of one Voluntary Communion and Profes­sion, can with any shew of reason Impose upon them (of the same Community) and escape the reproof of this Scripture. (and pray mind, to confirm all this what followes) for (sayes our Author) all Societies are to govern themselves ac­cording to their Institution and first Principles of union; where there is violence on this part, Tyrany and not Order is in­troduced; Now since Perswasion and Conviction began all true Christian Societies, (and therefore ours to be sure in your sense) [Page 89] all Christian Societies must uphold themselves upon the same free bottom (to be sure) or they turn Antichristian, I beseech you (sayes the Author) here let us Examine our selves faithfully, indeed that is it we would be at, and the want of that is the cause of our Misery,) and I am of belief (sayes the Author) that something will appear amongst us, that shews great Reverence to that free Name. What do you say will not all this hold you? Can any thing be more to the purpose against Imposition, or more pertinant to our case? Seeing 'tis Imposition that excluded Us the same Society [...]; and ought any thing to be more considered and vallued as Obligeing then what you have said your selves? And yet that you have Imposed your Opinions upon your Brethren is matter of Fact, truly not to be as good as your word in so Sollemn an Oc­casion lessens your Credit, as well as 'tis a dishonour to God, being unrighteous in it self. What you can say to come off, we do not know; except you will indea­vour to Improve this new distinction, that you have made; that is, that those are Civil things and not Re­ligious. But we have shewed that distinction to be danger­ous in our Case alone; and here will a little Examine the difference betwixt your Plea for Imposition, and those you reprehend. You say such have made Opinions Articles of Faith, and those Articles of Faith terms of Communion; now to avoid this rock on which they split, you will not make your Opinions Articles of Faith: No, for they do not concern Faith, You say; but still you will make them terms of External Communion, and pray where's the difference? Sure 'tis only in Name; for the Conse­quence and effect is the same, to witt, Dissatisfaction and Division. Indeed if there is any difference, your way of making the difference is the worse of the two, as not having so much to plead for it, as those may have that [Page 90]you reprehend. As thus, they might believe what they did was right, and so might plead Conscience for making Opinions Articles of Faith, and then them Articles Terms of Communion, though mistaken. But you can not plead Conscience for Imposing your Opinions, while you do again and again say, they do not concern Con­science. But take Notice, no Imposition can be Just, where Conscience cannot be pleaded, and Conscience in this Case (generally speaking) can never be truly plead­ed, but where Persons goes into a known evil or neglect a known Duty; which can never be made out in your case against your Brethren; but further in this passage you tell us that Conscience is allowed us.

Your words is Suspicious, as well as dangerous; For who can dispence with Conscience but he that is Lord of Conscience? But if you intend that Conscience is unconcern'd, as the following words may Import; then does this prove what is above, that you cannot plead Conscience for Imposing upon your Brethren in those things. And pray then what can you plead for Imposing but your Will and Power? But lastly you bid us, (the Visible ground of Distance being so small,) weigh with our selves by what has been, what may the consequence of this lamentable breach. Must this affect us and not you, whiles we tell you that Conscience is concerned; and you tell us it is not? Does this bespeak you Consciencious? No verily, this rather bespeaks that you have lost the tenderness of Conscience, that thus seek to baffle Conscience to please you. For once sacrifice that, and farewel true Religion. But go too, is the Point little for us to comply with, and great for you to omitt? What say you, is not that a kind of con­tradiction? And where shall we find this unreasonable Language most in use but amongst the Imposers of Opi­nions [Page 91]and Ceremonies? Which certainly you ought to Note; if it were but to avoid their company. But is the matter little indeed, and did you introduce this to fit us for greater things, or did you by this intend to Number the People that you might know the greatness of your strength and largeness of your Dominion by the Subjection of the People? If that was it we cannot hope for a redress: For that would be to lose the design and end. But if it was for the good of the People, as we suppose you will pre­tend, then seeing a contrary effect is brought forth, that is, in stead of Love and good will, (the effect of true Re­ligion,) Strife, Debate, and Division arises; can you do any less for the cure of this evil, which hath attend­ed the imposing of your Opinions, then make your Opi­nions indifferent? And what harm can there be in this? For your Brethren to do their business without Womens Meeting for Government, whiles you acknowledge they own the end, and are one in Judgement with you in the Worship and Doctrine of truth.

We doe sincerely beseech you seriously to consider of these things, for your own good, for our Peace, and for the glory of God, and true Religion, that brings forth Peace on Earth, good will to Men and glory to God on high. For we can say in truth what we have writ is not for Contention, but for Peace, not for destruction, but for Information, and therein for Edification. We are not Ignorant, but what we have Writ may be controverted by such as are not willing to make the best of things, and take things in the best sense. For what Writing can escape a Cavilling Mind? Since 'tis clear that the Scrip­ture (if it were Mens Intrest) might be set at odds. Nay we see that one and the same word has different meanings given to it, by different apprehensions of Men; then how [Page 92]much more so large a discourse as this considering the things spoken of in it? However that we may avoid that danger all we can, we will endeavour to bring our pre­sent difference into as little compass as we can; and there­fore as we have several times upon occasion stated the matter in this Book, so we do it now that you may take the better Notice of it at parting. Therefore we do say again, There must be a necessity for that thing, that is brought in against your Brethrens consent, or otherwise you must set forth that you have a right under the Notion of Eldership to bring in and Impose upon us, that which in truth there is no necessity for. You see we deny both, and have given our reasons for it: And therefore if you can [...] prove neither of those Points, and yet will not make your Opinions indifferent; then we must say, that our Dissatisfaction is right, and Seperation on this account for quietness is really Just; and that all this noise that is made against Dissatisfaction and Division, is but to cover an ill Cause, and therefore is as the smoak of the bottomless Pit: Which darkens the Sun and Air, that things cannot be yet seen as they are; but this will off; for the Sun will break through all those Clouds and Disipate those Misty Foggs. Which that it may do quickly for the sake of the simple hearted, is the sincere desire of your well­wishing Friend.