A true and perfect RELATION OF THE VVHOLE TRANSACTION CONCERNING The PETITION of the Six Counties of South-wales, and the County of Monmouth, formerly presented to the Parliament of the Common-Wealth, of ENGLAND, For a supply of Godly Ministers, And an Account of Ecclesiasticall Revenues therein: With the PARLIAMENTS Resolves, and Proceedings thereupon. Now humbly Represented to his Highnesse the Lord PROTECTOR'S Consideration.
Published by A. G.
LONDON Printed by J. G. for Math. Ekins, at the Gun in St. Pauls Church-yard, 1654.
To his most Excellent Highnesse, OLIVER Lord Protector of the Common-wealth of England, Scotland, and Ireland, and the Dominions thereunto belonging.
THe Nation of Wales, being described to the former Parliament to be overspread with Ignorance and Prophanenes. Was by the Members thereof, Taken into consideration, And passed an Act for the better Propagation, and Preaching of the Gospell in Wales; For the putting whereof in execution divers Commissioners were Authorized, and impowered to Amove and Eject those of the Ministery, whom they conceived to be unworthy: And persons were Nominated to Recommend, and approve, such men, as they should judge fit for the advancement of the Gospell in those Countries. The Commissioners according to their Authority, proceeded in the work; So that in a short space, the Ancient Clergy were (for the most part) indiscriminally ejected, The Tithes Sequestred, The Parishes left unsupplied, The blessed Ordinance of Christ taken away from the Inhabitants, And they wholy debarred from any spirituall comfort to their pretious Soules, by any Power or dispensation of Gospell-Ministery, but what they must receive from some few Itinerants in their uncertaine meetings. This (out of a Soule-saving necessity) stirred up the spirits of many of the conscientious Inhabitants to present that pious Petition of South-wales to the Honourable House. But the Petitioners their Councell, and Sollicitors have been prejudiced in their Reputation, for discharging their duty therein to God, and their native Country, and rendred thereby uncapable of serving the same; And have been traduced to have fayled to prove, and make good the Matters exhibited in the Petition; Which constraines mee to publish this Narrative of the whole Transaction and Proceedings of the Parliament, with their Resolves in Referring the same to the Committee for Plundred Ministers; As also to make truly evident unto publick view the Petitioners particular charge, the Commionssiers Answer, with the Petitioners Reply thereunto, as they were lodged with the Clerk for the Committee, according to their severall Originall Copies, Orders [Page] and Reports, Protesting, that I have not the least thought out of malice, or selfe-ends to asperse or calumniate any mans Person; But only to set down matters of fact for the manifestation of Truth, to vindicate the Petitioners, their Councell, and Sollicitors from all malignant designe in promoting the Petition, Either to discourage the godly, or to bring into Authority any Malignant or ill-affected persons, Or re-investing unworthy, and scandalous Ministers.
All which I have made bold in the fear of God, and power of his Grace, to spread most humbly before your Highness. That seeing the Promises of good things do already shine both in Church and State by your Highness his Protection and Government; Why should the poor Inhabitanes of Wales despaire to make known their grievances, and Represent their sad spirituall Condition before your Christian-Eys, who (perhaps) have not had as yet a full discovery thereof? Who knowes, But that the Lord (who had hid these things from such as were formerly in Authority) Hath reserved the same for your Highnesse Care, That the People may have Cause to praise and blesse God for you, whom he hath designed to Performe so glorious a Worke, as to Restore the Comfort of the Blessed Ordinances of Christs Gospell unto their Nation againe.
You are now become not onely Petra, a Foundation, whereon the People must rest: ‘In vos domus omnis Inclinata Recumbit.’ but also Pastor Israelis, a Sheepheard to provide Pastures for the People, The Lord in his Mercy direct you to Act what is conducible to his Glory, the peace of your owne Conscience, and the good and well-fare of the People under your Protection, prayeth,
The PETITION of the Six Counties of South-wales, and the County of Monmouth, with a Narrative of the Parliament Resolves thereupon; And the Proceedings before the Committee for Plundred Ministers, to whom it was Referred by the Honourable House; faithfully transcribed, and herein expressed according to the severall Originall Orders.
The tenth of March, 1651. Col. Edward Freeman Atturney Generall for the Common-wealth in South-wales (as Councell, and at the request of the Petitioners) attended with severall of the Petitioners did present a Petition to the then Supreame Authority, The Parliament of the Common-wealth of England, Intituled The humble Petition of severall of the Inhabitants of the Six Counties of South-wales, and County of Monmouth, well-affected to the Parliament, and present Government, on the behalfe of themselves and the rest of the Inhabitants there, in these words following, (viz.)
THat your Petitioners cannot but with all humblenesse acknowledge your Honours constant care,1. The Petition divided into 9. Heads. in providing for the supply of their spirituall necessities, and the advancement of the Gospell of Christ, and particularly in passing the Act of the 22 of February 1649. Intituled an Act for the Propagation of the [Page 2] Gospell in Wales, so much really intended by your Honours, which filled the hearts of your Petitioners, and all the Inhabitants of Wales with joy and gladnesse in hopes to find the fruits thereof accordingly: Neverthelesse your Petitioners humbly shew,
That since the passing of the said Act, all or most of the Ministers 1 of South wales and County of Monmouth, have beene and stand Ejected from their Benefices, and but few or none of the said respective Counties have beene supplied with any competent 2 number of Godly, able Teachers, to officiate in the Roomes of the outed Ministers.
Neither hath there beene provided any conventient number 3 of godly Schooles for the education of Children, and advancement of learning as was intended by your Honours, and the true purport of the said Act, as they humbly conceive there being not above foure or five Itinerary Teachers in some of the said Counties, appointed and approved of to teach the Gospell. Whereas some of the said Counties do consist of above six score Parishes, and the least of fifty or threescore, many whereof have at least two thousand Soules.
4 That some persons deriving Authority from the said Act, have for these two yeares last past received and disposed of all the profits of the Tythes of Church-livings, and all other Benefices and Impropriations sequestred, within the said six Counties of South-wales and County of Monmouth, which are annually worth twenty thousand pound or thereabouts; Out of which little hath 5 beene converted towards the Propagation of the Gospell, or accompted for to the State.
6 That for want of the due Execution of the said Act, your Petitioners together with the said Inhabitants indure a Famine of the Word of God; Children are not bred up in the Instruction and 7 Information of the Lord; The vast revenues of the outed Ministers are set out at extraordinary undervalues. The Churches are in most places shut up, and the Fabrick thereof ready to fall 8 to the ground for want of Repaire. Neither can the Inhabitants take notice of your Honours Acts, Edicts and Proclamations (wherein the publique Welfare, the Liberty and Safety of their 9 persons, and estates are concerned) for want of a fitting number of Teachers in each County to publish the same.
[Page]Your Petitioners therefore out of their duty to God, the preservation of the Soules of the Inhabitants of their Countrey, the Common-wealths interest, and the earnest desire they have that your Honours most pious intentions expressed in the said Act, may be accordingly observed; Doe hold themselves bound in conscience, out of Christian and Soule-saving necessity, to present the premises to your Honours consideration. Earnestly beseeching your Honours in pursuance of your wonted zeale, and unfeigned Affection to Gods Glory, and the Increase of true Religion, Learning and Piety, to take such a course for the future supply of their respective Counties, with such convenient number of Godly able Teachers, and for Provisions of Schooles and Nurseries of Learning and Religion there; As also to call to account such persons as have received the profits of the said Tithes, Church-livings and Prebends, and the Sequestred Impropriations as to your Honours grave wisdom shall seeme meete.
And your Petitioners shall as in duty bound most humbly pray, &c.
2. The presenting thereof to the Parliament, by Col. Freeman, and his Speech. At the presenting of the Petition, Col. Freeman being come to the Bar, did deliver at the request of the Petitioners, the true sense and meaning of the Petition and Petitioners, and the sum of their desires, for a more cleer demonstration of their reall intentions therein, in these words, (viz.)
IT was the desire of many well-affected Gentry, and other Inhabitants of South-wales, That I should present to your Grave consideration this Petition, and withall humbly to beg you will be pleased to believe they desire not to bring in any scandalous ejected Ministers (as some out of prejudice to the Petitioners do suggest) but such as this Honorable House shall approve of, and onely such shall be most gratefully entertained by them: A Soule-saving necessity hath constrained them to this humble addresse, who for above two yeares last past have lived in darknesse, the light of the Gospell being almost extinguished, shining onely in some few corners of the Country, and ingrossed into particular distinct Congregations, which are not above foure or five in most Counties in Southwales, & how foure or [Page] five Itineraryes can supply a whole County, (most of the Counties consisting of eighty, or a hundred Parishes) is humbly left to your Honours grave consideration. The Inhabitants of Southwales are not onely destitute of a convenient number of Ministers, but also of able Schoole-masters, to the decay of Religion, and Learning. And neverthelesse the vast Revenue of the outed Clergy and all Sequestred Tythes, Impropriations, Gleabs▪ and other Ecclesiasticall Livings (amounting to a great value) is received by persons deriving Authority from the Act of the 22 of Febru. 1649 which was really intended by this Honourable House, for the true propagation of the Gospell, who do let and set out the same to Friends, Creatures, and Alliance of their owne at extraordinary undervalues, to the prejudice of the State, and the gaine of private persons. (Mr. Speaker) This innocent Petition hath no designe in it against the Common wealth, or any particular persons; All that the Petitioners crave from this Honourable house, is a convenient number of able godly Teachers, and Schoole-Masters, such as you shall approve of, and an account for the profits and Revenues of the Churches received for these two last yeares. As we ayme herein, at the Glory of God, and the publick good, so let God blesse us, and give a gracious issue to our humble desires.
The Petitioners being with-drawne, the said Petition was read, and taken into consideration, and thereupon the Parliament passed the ensuing Resolves, viz.
- 1. Resolved by the Parliament, that it be referred to the Committee for plundred Ministers to examine this businesse, and to state matters of fact, and Report their opinions therein to the Parliament, with power for the same Committee to send for Persons, Papers, and Witnesses.
- 2. Resolved, That the same Committee have power to examine upon Oath, and to authorize such Commissioners in the Country as they shall thinke fit to examine witnesses upon Oath, touching any the matters contained in the Petition, and to returne those examinations to the said Committee.
4. The tran [...] mitting of th [...] Petition, an [...] Resolves to th [...] Committee fo [...] plundered M [...] nisters. And the same day the said Petition and Resolves were transmitted to the Honorable Committee for plundred Ministers,to whom the same was referred. And it was then Ordered▪ That the same should be taken into consideration on the 16 of March following, on which day severall of the Petitioners with their Councellors and Solliciters did attend the said Committee with Commissioners Names,5 The Petitioners with Councell, and Solliciters attend the Committee, 16 Martii. which they offered and prayed a Commission, directed to those Gentlemen, or such other persons as the Honorable Committee should thinke fit, to examine the matters contained in the said Petition in the Countrey, where the witnesses resided, and matters of fact did rise, according to the said Resolves of Parliament.
6. Major Gen Harrison excepts against the generality of the Petition, requiring a particular charge, and the Sollicitors Answer.At which time some of the Committee, especially Major Generall Harrison, one of the Commissioners for Propagation in Wales, did insist that the Petition was to generall, and demanded a particular charge; Unto which the Petitioners Sollicitors gave answer, that they were onely Sollicitors for the Petitioners, and had no more yet in charge for their Clients (the Petitioners) then the preservation of the Petition, and doubted not but to exhibite particulars if required; and the Petitioners have convenient time for that purpose: yet neverthelesse, conceived that the Petitioners by the aforesaid Resolves of Parliament, were not directed to exhibite any new charge, or particulars other then the Petition it selfe, which was all that was referred to the consideration of that Honourable Committee, and all that the Petitioners were to prove and make good, which they were ready to doe according to these Resolves, which gave that Committee no power, or direction (as they humbly conceived) to demand or receive any new charge or particulars.
7. The Petitioners are denied a Commission. A Letter to be first sent to the Commissioners for propagation, to send an account by the 18. of May, 1652.But the Petitioners could not then obtaine a Commission to prove their Petition; It being then thought fit, and ordered that first before any Commission issued, a Letter should be written by Major Generall Harrison, Col. Sydney, and Mr. Henry Herbert Members of Parliament, the Commissioners for Propagation of the Gospel in Southwales and County of Monmouth, together with a Copy of the said Petition, desiring them by the 18. of May, 1652 (being two moneths time) to give a particular accompt to the said Committee to the said Petition and matters therein [Page 6] in contained. Whether the said Letter was sent or no, is best known to those worthy Gentlemen, to whom the care thereof was referred.
[...] The Petition [...]i [...]h the Commissioners An [...] wer, read May [...]8. 1652. However the Petitioners with their Councellors and Solicitors did attend the said Honorable Committee on the 18 of May: At which time the Petition, and also a generall Answer was read, purporting the Answer of the Commissioners for the propagation of the Gospel, &c.
9. The Petitioners Councels, [...]xcept against [...]he Commissioners Answer.Unto which the Petitioners Councell replyed, That the same did altogether consist of Generalls; And in regard it was impossible for them (being strangers to the matters of fact) nor yet for their Clients the Petitioners to offer any thing there at the Bar by way of Reply, 10. They pray for a Copy of the Commissioners Answer, which is denyed. or Exceptions to the said Answer before they had a Copy thereof, and time to consider of the same, they prayed to have a Copy of the said Answer for that purpose, which they could not obtaine; but the Petitioners were then Ordered by Friday the 21. of May (being two dayes after) to exhibit such particulars contained in their Petition, upon which they would insist,11. The Committees Order of May 18. 1652. which the Petitioners could not obtaine, or a Copy thereof, untill the day before they were to answer it.and desire to examine witnesses. The Petitioners Agents attended the Clerke of that Committee for the said Order, but could not obtaine the same, or a Copy thereof, untill Wednesday at six a clock in the Evening, so that the Petitioners had but one dayes time to answer the expectation of the Committee in relation to the said Order: who (finding the same to be ambiguously and uncertainly drawn, bearing severall interpretations) did demand of Master Phelpes, the Clerk attending the said Committee, what was meant by the Particulars mentioned in the said Order?12. The Order of May 18. ambiguously drawn. who either would not, or could not satisfie them therein, (though present at the making of the Order, whilst the Petitioners were withdrawne:) whereupon they Addressed themselves to Members of Parliament, that sate at the Committee, when the said Order was made, and tooke advise of Councell; And upon the whole they did apprehend the meaning of the Order to be onely thus; That the Petitioners should declare what part, or particulars of their Petition they would insist to prove (it containing many particulars;) not conceiving that the Committee should require a particular charge against the proceedings and transactions of the Commissioners [Page 7] for Propagation in the seaven Counties for above two yeares, and to have the same drawn up and exhibited in two dayes, which was a worke of impossibility, much lesse to be done in one day; which if they meant, it behoved their Clerk to have expressed the same in the Order by cleere and intelligible words.
The Petitioners in obedience to the said Order in full Answer to what was required, thereby so far as the words,13. May 21. The Petitioners offer to prove the truth of their Petition, in every particular, and desire a Commission for that purpose, And pray that this their tender may be Recorded. and the very Letter of the Order did purport, did appeare on the said 21 of May, and by their Councell did affirme, that they did insist on all the particulars contained in their Petition: And would prove the truth of the Petition in every particular, And prayed againe a Commission into the Countrey, according to the Resolves of Parliament to prove the same; Whereupon Major Generall Harrison did aske the Petitioners Councell, if they had any thing else to offer to the Committee at that time, unto which answer was given by the Petitioners Councell, that they had delivered the Answer of the Petitioners, in obedience to the said Order, and prayed that the same might be recorded.
And prayed also that they would Order their Clerk to deliver the Petitioners a Copy of the Commissioners Answer to the Petition, 14. They move againe for a Copy of the Commissioners Answer, which was not granted. whereby the Petitioners might be enabled either to except or reply unto the same, and proceed to issue according to the usuall course, practice and proceedings in all Courts of Justice, and Committees, And even of that Honorable Committee in all other causes; The Petitioners conceiving that the Commissioners did not send up their Answer with an intention to conceale the same from the knowledge of the Petitioners, or were unwilling that the same should be exposed to publick view. May 21. 1652. 15. An Order for a Sub-committee to report matter of fact upon the Petition, before a Copy of the Commissioners Answer granted, issue joyned, or witnesses examined.
Neverthelesse the Petitioners could not obtaine an Order for a Copy thereof (being commanded to withdraw, before the Committee did explaine the said Order, or give any further time for the Petitioners to satisfy the expectation of the Committee in reference to the same, and before the Petitioners or their Councell were called in, or were againe heard) who had somewhat more to offer to the consideration of that Committee.
It was Ordered that Col. Bennet, Mr. Robinson, Col. Sydney, Mr. Strickland, Alderman Allen, Lieut. Gen. Fleetwood, Mr. Smith [Page 8] and Col. Fenwick, or any three or more of them doe examine the matter of fact, as it then lay before the said Committee upon the said Petition of the six Counties of South-wales, and County of Monmouth, to the said Committee referred by the Parliament, and report the same to the said Committee, in order to a Report of the whole case to the Parliament.
16. The Petitioners prepare particulars con [...]eyned in their Petition, in the nature of a charge.The Petitioners afterwards understanding the sense of the Committee in relation to the said Order of the 18 of May, and that by particulars contained in the Petition, they did meane a particular charge: The Petitioners did with all convenient speed prepare particulars contained in the generall heads of the Petition in the nature of a Charge, and did instance severall miscarriages acted and done by colour of the said Act for Propagation of the Gospel, as by the particulars annexed will more fully appeare.
17. Which particulars are annexed to a Petition presented July 16. 1652. And the Petitioners did the 16. of July 1652. annex the same to a Petition, directed to the said Honourable Committee, wherein they did signify that by the said Order of the 18. of May, they did not then understand the meaning of the Committee, not conceiving their Honours did require thereby a particular charge, especially to be exhibited within two dayes (which was a worke of impossibility) being never before ordered so to do, nor required by the Resolves of Parliament to exhibite or prove any other thing then the Petition it selfe, and the matters therein contained; And having prepared the particulars annexed they prayed them to accept of the same (though for the reasons aforesaid they failed in strictness of time given them by the said Order.)
18. The Petitioners are againe denyed a Commission according to the Resolves of Parliament.And likewise prayed that the Honourable Committee would grant a Commission to the Countries, according to the said Resolves to prove the same, which Petition and Particulars being read for the Reasons in the said Petition contained, and upon the reading and serious debate, and consideration had of the former Orders and Proceedings of the Committee in that Cause,19 Ordered by the Committee, that the particulars should be reported to the Parliament.
It was Ordered, that the said particulars be admitted, and added to the Report of the matters to be Reported to the Parliament. At which time the Petitioners, Sollicitors and Agents, [Page 9] informed the Committee, 20. A Copy of the Commissioners Answer, denyed to the Petitioners frō the 18 of May, to the 16. of July 1652. that their Clerk denyed them a Copy of the Commissioners Answer, who from the 18 of May to that day, being the 16 of July 1652. could not obtaine a Copy thereof (although they used all possible meanes, and endeavours therein) Whereupon
It was Ordered that the Petitioners should have Copies of the Answer of the Commissioners for Propagation of the Gospell in Wales, 21. Ordered, that the Petitioners should have Copies of the Commissioners Answer. and of all other Papers and Proceedings remaining with the said Committee.
And accordingly the Petitioners having Copies of the Commissioners Answer, did prepare a Reply to the same (which was impossible for them sooner to doe.) And (having annexed the said Reply to a Petition) did the 20 of August 1652.22. Upon obtaining the Answer, a Reply is prepared, Present the same to the said Honourable Committee, praying them to accept of the said Reply, and likewise the fourth time prayed a Commission, to prove the Petition, as also their Particulars and Reply. 23. And annexed to a Petition presented to the Committ. Aug 23. 1652. And did likewise informe the Committee that on perusall of a Report drawne up by the Subcommittee, they did finde therein mentioned the said Booke of Accompt, contayning sixty Sheets of Paper, and conceiving it of dangerous consequence,24. The Petitioners pray for a Commission the fourth time. and very prejudiciall, as well to the Petitioners as to the State, in case the said Booke of Accompt should be Reported, before it was lodged with that Committee, 25. And that the Commissioners Booke of account might be lodged with the Committee & a copy thereof granted the Petitioners. and the Petitioners have a Copy thereof, and liberty to surcharge the same, without which the State might be defrauded many thousand pounds by an undue Accompt, they prayed that the said Booke of Accompt might be brought in, and lodged with the Committee; And the Petitioners might have a Copy thereof, and liberty to surcharge the same; And that in the meane time the same should not be reported to the Parliament (their Clerke having declared that the said Booke was onely produced by Major Generall Harrison, 26. The Booke of accompt produced, and afterwards taken away. Aug. 20. 1652. before the Sub-committee, when they were drawing up the Report, and then by him (or others attending him) taken away and never read, examined or lodged with the Clerke of the said Committee.
Whereupon the 20 of August 1652.27. The Sub-Committee Ordered to bring in the Booke of Account the 27 of August. 1652. or shew cause why they would not. It was Ordered that the Sub-committee appointed by Order of the 21 of May last, should bring in to the said Committee, the said Booke of Accompt [Page 10] of the Commissioners for Propagation of the Gospell in Wales, conteyning about threescore Sheets of paper in their Report mentioned; Or satisfy the Committee to the contrary on that day seven-night, being the time when the said Honourable Committee did appoint to take into consideration the said Petition and Reply.) And the care of bringing in the said Accompt was referred to Col. Bennet. But the Clerke attending the said Committee, did contrary to the expresse Declaration of the Committee, insert in the said Order, the third of September, to be the time for bringing in the said Account; And for consideration of the Petition and Reply: Which day being a Fast day,28. The Clarke contrary to the Committees Order inserts the 3. of Sep. which was a Fast-day. set apart by the Honourable Members of Parliament, for their Service and Worship of God, no Committee Sat.
The day following the Fast, the Petitioners Councell and Solliciters did attend the Committee to know their pleasures, if they would then take the Reply into consideration,29. As appears by M. Hancocks Affidavit or appoint another time, informing them, that their Clerke had misnamed the day in the Order, contrary to the Declaration and Order of the Committee,30. The Clerk answering that the next day was inserted in the paper of causes, being 5. of Sep and as by the Affidavit of Mr. Hancock, and the Petitioners Agent and Sollicitor may appeare.
But the Clerke did openly give Answer, that the same was put down in the Paper of causes for the second day following the Fast (being the 5. of Sep.)31. The Petitioners Councell and Sollicitor, attending the 5. day. The Clark had not entred the same into the Paper of causes.
And thereupon the Petitioners Councell, and Sollicitors with the leave of the Committee did depart to their other occasions, and did attend there the next day, according to the publick intimation and information of the Clerk. But the Clerk not having entred the same in the paper of causes, it was not called on, nor taken into consideration that day.
But on the 8 of September, in the absence of the Petitioners,32. But without the privity of the Petitioners Councell, or Sollicitors, it was Ordered the 8. of Sep. 1652. their Councell and Sollicitors; All persons being withdrawn,1. All Orders since the 29 of June, to be discharged. It was Ordered, that all Orders since the 29 of June, be discharged,2. The Report without mention of particulars, or Reply. and the said Report as it was then drawne up and Ordered, should be [Page 11] reported to the Parliament; 3. Without any examination of witnesses. In which report there was no mention made of the said Particulars and Reply, herein after recited;4. Without any Copy of the Booke of Account to be Reported to the Parliament. And the said Report was likewise made and drawn up before any one witnesse was examined in the cause, and before any Copy had, or examination made of the said Booke of Accompt,5. No further proceedings before that Committee. that was never brought in, or lodged with the Committee for that purpose. And it was then likewise Ordered and Declared by the Honourable persons then sitting as a Committee, that they would make no further proceeding in the said Cause, untill the further pleasure of the Parliament be declared, upon the said Report to be made unto them.
At the drawing up of which Order, one Richard Creed servant to the said Major Generall Harrison, 33. Rich. Creede (servant to) M. G. Harrison dictating the Order to Langly, (one of the Clarks) discocovered. and an Agent against the said Petitioners was dictating the words of the said Order to Mr. Langley one of the Clerkes to the said Committee; who was taken therein and discovered by Mr. Hancock, one of the Petitioners Agents, whereupon the said Langley, for prevention of the discovery of this his undue carriage in this businesse against the Petitioners, wished the said Creed to be silent, when hee saw the said Hancock, 34. As appears by M. Hancocks Affidavit. and informed Creed that Hancocks was Agent for the Petitioners, as by the Affidavit of the said Mr. Hancock, may more at large appeare.
And Major Generall Harrison was as active,35. Ma. Gen. Harrison, acting as one of the Committee though a Commissioner in the Act of Propagation. and sedulous in this matter, that on most days appointed for the hearing therof, he did sit and vote as one of the Grand Committee▪ And in a speciall manner did likewise sit with the Sub-committee at the drawing up of their Report, and was chiefe instrument therein, and subscribed the same, though he was not appointed at all to be one of the Sub-committee by the Order of the 21. of May 1652. But was one of the Commissioners appointed in the Act for the Propagation of the Gospell in Wales; And thereby equally intrusted, and concerned with the rest of the Commissioners therein named.
[Page 12] 36. The Petitioners being ordered from further prosecution.The Petitioners by the said Order of the 8 of September, being wholy debarred of any further proceedings before the said Committee, untill the further pleasure of the Parliament should be knowne therein, did patiently waite in expectation of what the Lord would bee pleased to direct them to doe therein.
37. And the Report suppressed from the 29. Jun. 1652. to the 25. May. 1653. But so it fell out, that the said Report was privately kept from the Cognizance of the Parliament, from the 29 of June 1652. untill the 25 of March 1653. (being 9 Moneths,) To what end, and upon what accompt the same was so long suppressed, is best knowne to Colonell Bennet, and others, who had the carriage thereof, and were intrusted by the said Order of 29 Junii. 1652. to Report the same to the Parliament.
38. The Petitioners, their Councell, Sollicitors and Agents are menaced, troubled, and imprisoned as followethIn the meane time, what strange and unusuall wayes have been used to suppresse the said Petition it selfe, you will find herein briefly declared.
1. The Petitioners and their Agents were menaced, and threatned by the Itnerants, and Sequestrators to be Sequestred, and ruined, which was accordingly in part executed.
2.39. The Petitioners are put out of Commission. Divers Gentlemen that bore publick Offices of trust under the Parliament in those parts, and of approved faithfullnesse unto them, were discountenanced and put out of their Places and Offices meerly for subscribing the said Petition, and owning the truth thereof.
40 The Petitioners Sollicitors, are tampered with by Creed, and Mr. Rogers.3. That one Richard Creed, servant to Major Generall Harrison, and Agent for the propagators, and one Hugh Rogers (formerly a Cavalier in Armes against the Parliament, yet one of the Welsh Itinerants) having an evill purpose and designe to corrupt the said John Gunter, the Petitioners Solliciter, and to draw him to violate and falsifie the great trust reposed in him, by the Petitioners, did partly by threats, and partly by faire promises and perswasions endeavour to disingage him, from the further prosecution and sollicitation of the said Petition.
41. Mr. Gunter denying their sollicitation, & tampering, is together with Col. Freeman, prosecuted.But the said John Gunter, abhorring with his Soule to condiscend thereunto, and the said Richard Creed, and Hugh Rogers, finding their endeavours therein fruitless.
The said Richard Creed in August 1652. (being then a servant to Major Generall Harrison) upon his own single information [Page 13] obtained a Warrant for the apprehending & bringing before the (then) Councell, Col. Edward Freeman, the Petitioners Councell, and the said John Gunter the Petitioners Sollicitour; In pursuance whereof the said Col. Ed Freeman, 42. Col. Freeman apprehended, as he was going to Court in Preisteigne Sessions being States Atturney whilest he was discharging his duty in the great Sessions held at Presteigne, in the County of Radnor, as Attorney Generall of South wales, was most disgracefully Arrested by the Councells Messengers, as he was going into the Court to plead for the State, and his own particular Clients. And imediately brought up a Prisoner to the (then) Councell, where he continued above sixteen weekes as a Prisoner, daily attending and petitioning for a charge, or discharge, (the Common-wealth and his own particular Clients in the meane time suffering great prejudice by his absence.)
At last a false and scandalous charge was brought in against him by Richard Creede, in the Name of John Morgan, 43. A charge produced by Creed, in John Morgans Name against Col. Freeman. one of the Sequestrators of the Church Revenues in South-wales, (being a man of a very meane Trade and Condition, before he was intrusted with the managing of the Sequestred Estates.) And the said Creede being demanded to prove the charge so by him exhibited, could not make good any one particular thereof;44. And for want of proofe Col. Freeman is discharged. whereupon Col. Freeman was honorably discharged from his Restraint, and Attendance, in reference to the said charge.
Neverthelesse hee received no reparation to this day for all these Wrongs and Sufferings; (though really damnified by this false Accusation of Creede, 45. The Col. is not yet repaired though damnified 1000 l. and his Complices) above 1000 l.
And afterwards upon the dissolution of the former Parliament, Col. Freeman by an Order of the (then) Councell (where Major Gen.46. But by Order of the (then) councell is discharged of his place of Atturney Gen. without any more charge, or proofs against him. Harrison had then the Honour to sit) was in his absence (without any crime layed to his charge) discharged of his place of Atturney Generall for South wales; Although hee had in that place (as also with the [...]o [...]e of his bloud in the Field) given signall Testimonies of his Fidelity and Affection to the Parliament and Commonwealth of England.
And Mr. Edm. Jones, (a compounded Delinquent on Record) was appointed Attorney Generall in his stead, who continues in that place to this day,37. And M. Edmond Jones, put in his place. notwithstanding the severall Acts and Ordinances of Parliament, disabling him from the execution therof.
[Page 14] 48. Mr. Gunter understanding of the Warrant against him, doth voluntarily render himselfe into the hands of the Serjeant at Armes.And the said John Gunter being gone into Wales to attend his civill imployments in the great Sessions for Carmarthen, Pembroke, and Cardigan, and understanding that the Warrant was issued out against him, did with all possible speed repaire to London, and voluntarily rendred himselfe to the Sergeant at Armes attending the Councell, and as a Prisoner attended 15. weeks, earnestly Petitioning for a Charge or Discharge.
In the meane time, such was the violence of his Prosecutors, that to disable him to attend his calling, and the solicitation of the said Petition about Jan. 49. Attends the Councel as a Prisoner the space of fifteen weeks. 1652. before any Charge brought agianst him, he was kept a close Prisoner in the Messengers custody two dayes and one night, by the meanes of Major Gen: Harrison, who moved at the Councell against the Sergeant at Armes for suffering Mr. Gunter to have liberty, though he daily attended the Councell as a Prisoner.50. A Charge exhibited by Creed, brought in by Major Gen. Harrison his Master, 9. Feb. 1652. But the Councell being informed of the state of his present case, would make no Order for his Restraint.
At last a malicious and impertinent Charge was brought in by the said Richard Creed the Informer, and usher'd in to the Councell by Major Gen: Harrison his (then) Master, 9. Feb. 1652. (about seven moneths after the issuing forth of the Warrant against him) wherein the matters suggested by Creed meerly related to John Gunter as Soliciter for the Petitioners. 51. The matter suggested of a 12. months standing meerly for acting or soliciting, and 7. moneths from the date of the Warrant to the exhibiting of the Charge.
Unto which Charge, John Gunter 5. Apr. 1653. did likewise voluntarily put in a full and satisfactory Answer.
The Petitioners and their Agents being thus dealt withall and discouraged, and the Report of the said Committee lying dormant for about nine moneths, Col: Bennet and others who had the carriage of the Report, did make choice of the 23. of March, 1652. as a most fit and convenient time to bring in the same to the Parliament.
52. M. Gunter voluntarily pure in his Answer 5. April. 1653. The Petitioners with their Councell and Solliciters being then out of Towne, and many worthy Members of Parliament absent, (who by their frequent sitting at the Committee on severall debates touching the said Petition, were deeply sensible of the sad truths therein contained.)53. The Report lying dormant 9. moneths, 54. Brought in by Col: Bennet 28. Mar. 1652. whilest the Petitioners, their Councellors and Soliciters were absent.
[Page 15]But the debate of that businesse being providentially put off untill the Friday following (being the 25. of March) The Pet. Agents returning unexpectedly to Towne,55. The debate of the Report, providentially put off till 25. Mar. upon Thursday the 24. of March, and understanding this great businesse was to be taken into consideration in Parliament the next day, did as much as in them lay prepare an Addresse to the Parliament suitable to the shortnesse of the time, and the weight and nature of the cause wherewith they were intrusted by their Countrey. And for that purpose, A Petition was presented unto the Parliament, 56. Mr. Charles Roberts Pet. with particulars and Reply, put in the 25. of March. the said 25. of March, with a copie of the particulars & Reply herein after recited, by Mr. Charles Roberts, one of the Pet. Soliciters, in these words, viz.
To the Supreame Authority, the Parliament of the Common-wealth of ENGLAND.
The humble Petition of CHARLES ROBERTS of Grayes-Inne Gent'.
THat your Honours having appointed this day to take into consideration your Honours Act of the 23. of February 1649. Intituled, An Act for the better propagation of the Gospel in Wales, and some Petitions and Proceedings relating thereunto; Your Petitioner out of his duty to God, and his Native Countrey, and for and on the behalfe of the Petitioners of the six Counties of South-wales, and County of Monmouth, (by whom he is entrusted amongst others as their Agent and Soliciter) Humbly to offer to your Honours consideration the Particulars and Reply hereunto annexed (The Originall whereof hath been long since lodged with the Honourable Committee for Plundred Ministers, And by their Honours Order of 16. July and 20. August last, hereunto likewise annexed, admitted in order to a Report thereof to your Honours, which neverthelesse (as your Petitioner is informed) are omitted out of the Report of the said Honourable Committee: In respect [Page 16] whereof your Petitioner is inforced to this humble addresse to your Honours,
Earnestly beseeching your Honours on the behalfe of the said Petitioners, to take the whole into your serious consideration, in order to a future redresse of their grievances, partly contained in the said Petition, Particulars, and Reply, in such way as to your Honours grave wisdomes shall seeme meet,
57. The Resolve of Parliament, 25 May 1653. For which not only your Petitioner, but many thousands of the Inhabitants of Wales will have cause to pray, &c.
Whereupon,58. The Petitioners Agents attend the Committee with the Resolves, and move for a Commission. and on consideration, and debate had of the Report brought in by Colonell Bennet, and of the whole matter as it then lay before the Parliament, they passed this insuing Resolve.
Resolved by the Parliament, that this Report be re-committed with power to the Committee to examine the whole matter of Fact,59. The Petiti. delayed untill Thursday, and the Parliament dissolved the wednesday before, and the Committee could not act any longer.and to Report it to the Parliament.
Afterwards the Petitioners Councell, and Sollicitors did attend the said Committee with the said Resolve; And severall times moved them in pursuance thereof, and of the former Resolve of Parliament, of the 10 of March 1651. To grant Commissions to the Countrey, to examine the truth of the Petition, Particulars and Reply; whereby the said Committee might be inabled to Report the whole matter of Fact to the Parlia. But the said Committee did put it off untill Thursday 21 Apr. 1653.60. The Petitiones intend to revive their Petition before the last Parliament.
And the Parliament being dissolved the Wednesday before, the said Committee, became consequently dissolved, and no further proceedings could be had before them on the said Petition and Resolves.
The Petitioners intending to revive their Petition, 61. Mr. Gunter their Sollicitor was the second time imprisoned by order of an absolute Warrant, and Order of Maj. Gen. Harrison. and Complaint before the late Parliament, and the noyse thereof coming to the eares of some persons concerned, The said John Gunter the Petitioners Solliciter, became the second time a prisoner, being apprehended by Edmond Dendy Esquire, Serjeant at Ames to the (then) Councell, and by him committed to the custody of Mr. Humphrey Holden, one of the Messengers attending [Page 17] the same Councell, where he then remained two dayes,50. Mr. Gunter demands the cause of his imprisonment. and one night, who demanding by whose Warrant and Authority he was restrained of the liberty held forth by the Law of the Land, to the free People of this Nation, was answered; That hee was detained by vertue of a Warrant issued forth in August. 1652. and the speciall directions of Major Gen. Harrison.
The said John Gunter having obtained a Copy of the said Order, and seriously considering of the same,51. The Answer given him therein. did finde the tenour thereof to be meerly for bringing in his person to appeare, and answer before the former Councell, to such things as should be then and there objected against him. And in regard hee had satisfied that Order by his voluntary appearance and answer, and finding no Order for his restraint, but the very Councell it selfe dissolved, he did conceive that he ought not to be restrained of his liberty by colour of the said Order, or any other verball Command or Directions; Whereupon he was plainly told that hee must remaine a Prisoner, untill hee did obtaine an Order of discharge from the (then Councell) or from Major Generall Harrison; who being thus straitned, and not at all Committed by any Order of the then Councell; did direct a Letter to Major Generall Harrison, To this effect,52. M. Gunters Letter to Major Generall Harrison, touching his Restrained. viz. ‘That hee had beene exposed to extraordinary expence, and losse of time, and was much damnified by the causelesse prosecution of his servant Richard Creed,unto whose charge hee had long before put in a full and satisfactory Answer, before the former Councell, whereby their Order was fulfilled, and themselves sufficiently satisfied of his Innocency. And desired his Honour to consider how unusuall and destructive a course it was to the free People of this Nation, to be deprived of their just Liberties by verball commands, or otherwise on bare information, before a legall Triall, and Conviction; And therefore hoped hee should not be made the first president of that nature, since the establishment of that Government; But that his Honour and all other in Authority would be pleased to protect him, whilest hee behaved himselfe inoffensive towards their Government.’ 53. Mr. Gunter afterwards discharged by Ma. Generall Harrisons direction. Whereupon Major Generall Harrison, taking the Premisses into consideration, was pleased to give Order and Directions to the Serjent at Armes to discharge the said John Gunter, from his restraint and punishment.
[Page 18] 34. Mr. Gunter received no Reparation, thought damified above 1000 l.Which being performed, notwithstanding though Mr. Gunter being of known integrity to the Common-wealth, yet by colour of this false Accusation (without proofe made against him, or any Tryall or Conviction) was debarred of the benefit of his Profession, in the execution of severall places, and imployments wherein hee was intrusted; And hath not to this day Received any Reparation for his losses and dammages thereby sustained, though hee hath beene damnified every way above a thousand pound.
Having given you the true Relation of the whole Transaction concerning the Petition, with the Parliament Resolves, and severall Orders and Reports by the Committee for Plundred Ministers and others thereupon, with the manifold Obstructions in the Prosecution thereof, both by severall miscarriages of Clerks and other Agents. And the grievous Restraynment of the Petitioners Councell, and Sollicitors from their Liberties. I passe on to the Particular Heads of the Charge put in by the Petitioners.
II. The Particular CHARGE.
The Generall Heads of the PETITION of the Six Counties of South-wales, and County of Monmouth, together with the particulars therein contained; Whereupon the Petitioners desire to have liberty to examine Witnesses in the Countrey by Commission, where matter of Act ariseth, and the Witnesses reside, according to the Resolves of Parliament of the 10 of March last, humbly presented to the Honourable Committee for plundered Ministers.
The First Generall HEAD.
1. THat all or most of the Ministers of the Six Counties of South-wales, and County of Monmouth, have been ejected from their respective Benefices.]
More paticularly,
- Monmouth, 53.
- In the County of Monmouth 53. and upwards, whereof 28. Masters of Arts, 15 Batchelors of Divinity, 10 Preaching Graduates, and University-men, besides all those Curats and Stipendaries that were imployed to Preach and Officiate for Pluralists and Impropriators.
- Glamorgan, 40.
- Ministers ejected 40. and upwards. Whereof two Doctors of Divinity, three Batchelors of Divinity, 16 Masters of art, 19 preaching Graduats and Universitymen, [Page 20] besides Curats and Stipendaries imployed to preach, and officiate for Pluralists and Impropriators.
- Brecknock, 32.
- Minister ejected 32. Whereof one Doctor of Divinity, three Batchelors of Divinity, 18 Masters of Art, 10 Graduats and Universitymen, besides Curats and Stipendaries imployed to preach and officiate for Pluralists and Impropriators.
- Radnor, 30.
- Ministers ejected 30 and upwards. Whereof one Doctor of Divinity, two Batchelers of Divinity, six Masters of Art, besides other Graduats, Curats, and Stipendaries, imployed to preach, and officiate in other Churches and Chappells, and to supply the places of Pluralists and Impropriators.
- Co [...]rmarthen 30.
- Ministers ejected 30 upwards. Besides Curats and Stipendaries and other Graduates, and Universitymen imployed to preach, and officiate for Pluralities, and Improperties.
- Cardigan, 20.
- Ministers ejected 20 and upwards. Besides Curats and Stipendaries imployed to preach, and officiate for Pluralists and Impropriators.
- Pembrok. 32.
- Ministers ejected thirty two, and upwards. Consisting most of them, of able Preachers and Universitymen. and other Graduates, besides Curats, and Stipendaries imployed and Stipended to Preach and officiate for Pluralists, and Impropriators.
The Second Generall HEAD.
That few or none of the said Countries have been supplied, with a competent number of Godly able Teachers to officiate in the roomes of the outed Ministers, there being not above foure or five Itinerary Teachers, in some of the said Counties appointed, and approved of to Preach the Gospell; whereas some of the said Counties consist of 120. [Page 21] Parishes, and the least thereof consisting of 50. many whereof have therein above 2000 Soules.]
More particularly.
- Monmouth not above 20.
- That the County of Monmouth hath in it 140 odd Parishes, to supply which Parishes, there are now of approved Othodox Godly able Teachers and Ministers, resident, stipended and allowed of to preach and officiate, according to the Act of Parliament of the 22 of Feb. 1649 not above 20.
- Glamorgan not above 20,
- That the County of Glamorgan hath in it 151 Parishes, to supply which Parishes, there are now of approved Orthodox Godly able Teachers and Ministers resident, stipended and allowed of to preach and officiate, according to the Actor of Parliament, of the 22 of Feb. 1649. not above twenty.
- Brecknock not above 4,
- That the County of Brecon hath in it 60 odd Parishes, to supply which there are now of approved Orthodox godly able Teachers and Ministers resident, stipended, and allowed to Preach and Officiate according to the said Act, not above 4.
- Radnor not above 8:
- That the County of Radnor hath in it 50 Parishes, to supply which Parishes there are now of approved Orthodox godly able Teachers and Ministers Stipended, allowed and approved of to preach and officiate, according to the said Act, not above 8.
- Carmarthen not above 7
- That the County of Carmarthen hath in it 81 Parishes, to supply which Parishes, there are now of approved Oxthodox godly able Teachers and Ministers resident, stipended, allowed and approved of to preach and officiate, according to the said Act, not above 7.
- Cardigan not above 12
- That the County of Cardigan hath in it 60 odd Parishes, to supply which Parishes, there are now of approved Ministers qualified as aforesaid, not above 12.
- Pembroke not above 30,
- That the County of Pembroke hath in it 140 odd Parishes, to supply which Parishes, there are now of approved Orthodox godly able Teachers and Ministers resident, stipended and approved of to Preach and officiate, according to the said Act not above 30.
The Third Generall HEAD.
Shcoole-Masters.That there hath not been provided such a convenient number of good Schooles, for the education of Children, and advancement of Learning as was intended by the Parliament, and the true purport of the said Act.]
More particularly,
- Monmouth not above 3.
- That in the County of Monmouth there are not above three Godly able Schoole-masters stipended, qualified, allowed, and approved of, according to the said Act, having therein 140 odd Parishes as aforesaid.
- Glamorgan not above 4,
- Not above foure, having therein 151 Parishes as aforesaid.
- Brecknock not above 3,
- Not above three, having therein 60 odd Parishes as aforesaid.
- Radnor not above 3,
- Radnor not above three, having therein 50 Parishes as aforesaid.
- Carmarthen not above 2,
- Not above two, having therein 81 Parishes as aforesaid.
- Penbrook not above 3,
- Not above three, having therein 140 odd Parishes as aforesaid.
- Cardigan not above 3.
- Not above three, having therein 60 odd Parishes as aforesaid.
The fourth generall Head.
That some persons deriving authority from the said Act, have for above two yeeres last past received and disposed of the Tythes, Glebes, Impropriations, Tenths, Portions of tythes, Rents reserved, Colledge Pensions, and other Benefices and Ecclesiasticall Livings and Promotions whatsoever within the six Counties of South-wales and County of Monmouth annually worth 20000. l. or thereabout.] viz.
That Col: Thomas Harrison, Col: Philip Jones, Col: John [Page 23] Jones, Sir John Trevar Knight, Henry Herbert Esq Will: Herbert, Will: Parker, Will: Blethin, Christopher Katchmay, and the rest of the Commissioners named in the said Act, to execute the severall powers therein contained, ware thereby impowred and entrusted by themselves and others deriving authority from them, to receive and dispose of all and singular the Rents, Issues of all and every the Rectories, Vicaridges, Donatives sine Curis, Portions of Tenths, and other Ecclesiasticall Livings, which all the time of passing the said Act then were or then after should be in the disposing of the Parliament, or any others deriving authority from them. As also to receive and dispose of the Rents, Issues and Profits of all Impropriations and Glebe-lands within the said Counties, which then were or then after should be under Sequestration, or in the disposall of the Parliament by vertue of any former Statute, or any Act or Ordinance of this present Parliament. The particular valuations of the said respective Tithes and premisses within the said respective Counties are as followeth, viz.
- Monmouth:
- The Tythes, Tenths, Portions of tythes, Glebes, Impropriations, Rents reserved, Colledge Pensions, and other Ecclesiasticall Livings, Procurations, Promotions, &c. in the county of Monmouth, annually worth 14500 l.
- Glamorgan:
- The Tythes and premisses annually worth 4500 l.
- Brecknock:
- The Tythes and Premisses annually worth 2500 l.
- Radnor:
- The Tythes and Premisses annually worth 2000 l.
- Carmarthen:
- The Tythes and Premisses annually worth 2000 l.
- Cardigan:
- The Tythes and Premisses annually worth 1000 l.
- Pembroke:
- The Tythes and Premisses annually worth 3500 l.
Which in the whole comes to the intire summe of 20000 l. per ann.
And the better to satisfie your Honours of the reall valuations of the said Tythes and premisses, the Petitioners are so far from overvaluing the same, that they shall and will be ready, and doe hereby offer your Honours to give good security for the said Tythes and premisses within the said seven counties 20000 l. per ann. so as they may have, collect and enjoy the same with the same power and authority, and in the same beneficiall manner as [Page 24] the said Commissioners and their Agents have received, made or raised, or might have received, made or raised the same, and the respective Inhabitants, &c. will be well contented to farme their owne respective Tythes, and other the premisses proportionably according to this offer and valuation made by the Petitioners. The said offer of the Petitioners being 20000l. more in two years, then the Commissioners account in their generall answer.
The fift generall Head.
5 That little of the said Tythes and premisses have been converted towards the propagation of the Gospell, or accounted for to the State.]
The Petitioners will make this evident,
1. That no Accompt it all was given or rendred the Parliament of the said Tythes and premisses, untill the Petition was preferred.
2. That the accompt given in by the Commissioners in answer to the Petition is onely in generall, not expressing in particular what profit of the Tythes and premisses they received, nor out of what, nor how disposed, save onely an acknowledgement of the receipt of 20000 l. or thereabouts, which the Petitioners humbly pray they may doe. And the Petitioners having a copy thereof, and convenient time, are ready to exhibit a particular surcharge, the Petitioners having not yet obtained a copy of the generall answer and accompt brought in to the Clerk of the said Honourable Committee, although the Petitioners by their Agents used their endeavour therein, Master Phelps having answered the Petitioners Agents, that the said Answer was sealed up, and order given him, that no copy thereof should be given the Petitioners or their Agents.
3. The Petitioners will also make it apparent, that little of the said Tythes and premisses have been converted to the propagation of the Gospel, or accompted for to the State.
By these few qualified stipended Teachers, Ministers, & School-masters imployed and stipended to teach and officiate.
4. By the small Stipends and Salaries allowed them out of the Tythes and Premisses, whereof some have sadly complained.
5. By the small allowances for 5ts paid to the ejected Ministers wives, though allowed according to the full value by the Act of Parliament.
The Sixt General HEAD.
6. That the Tithes and Premisses for the two last yeares have beene set out at undervalues, to the prejudice of the State.]
1. The Petitioners will make good, That not one Vicaridge, Rectory, or other of the Impropriat Tithes and Premisses, but have been let out at undervalues in every particular Parish. But because the Petitioners are desirous to give your Honours a more particular satisfaction therein, they doe for instance name, and particularize,
That the Rectory of Lanavon Ʋawre, in the County of Brecon, being valued by apprizers upon Oath at 100 l. per annum, yet set out at 55 l. per annum, though 80 l. per annum hath beene offered for it, and sufficient security for payment of the Rent, out of which the 5 ts and contribution being deducted the State will have but a small proportion out of the same.
The Gleabe is worth 4 l. 10 s. per annum, and so much would have beene given for it, yet set out at 40 s. per annum.
The Vicaridge of Glasbury, in the County of Brecon, and Radnor being worth 100 l. per ann. upwards, is set out at 50 l. per an. Though 80 l. per annum was offered to be paid for the same, and once assented unto, and security offered for payment of the Rent, and to include the fifths within the 80 l. so that the fifths and contributions being deducted out of the Rent now paid for the same, the State will have the least proportion thereof.
That the Vicaridge of Devynnog is worth 120 l. per annum, and upwards, yet set out at 60 l. per annum, and contributions thereout paid.
[Page 18]That the Vicaridge of Lliwell is worth 50 l. per annum, yet set out at 15 l. per annum.
That John Rice offered for the Tiths of Llangunur 30 l. per annum, yet the same hath beene let by John Hughes the Sequestrator, to his own brother at 15 l. and thereout the fifths and contributions deducted, whereby the State is defrauded.
That the Impropriate Churches of Chirckhowell Llangeney, Llangattock, Llanelley, Cumdy, &c. scituate in the County of Brecon, Sequestred for the Delinquency of Edward earle of Worcester are worth 350 l. per annum, and 300 l. would have been given for it, yet let out for 150 l. per ann.
That the Rectory of Llanelley, Llawdeneylogg, Llangendirne Llannon and Pembrey, with the Chappells annexed, scituate in the County of Carmarthen, parcell of the estate of the Lord Percy, let out to Henry Vaughan Esquire, late Sir Henry Vaughan Knight, a Delinquent, at 60 l. per annum, well worth 800 l. per annum and upwards, and so much would be given for the same.
The Tyths of Sleynton, worth 50 l. per annum, set out at 25 l. per ann.
The Tyths of Hubbarston are worth 70 l. per annum, let out for 25 l.
The Tyths of Llangam worth 60 l. per annum, set out at 30 let per annum.
The Tiths of Twynnells, worth 28 l. per annum, set out at 8 l. per annum to Mr. White a neer Kinsman to the sequestrator.
The Tyths of Hodston, worth 50 l. per annum, set out at 28 l. per annum.
The Vicaridge of Muncton worth 30 l. per annum, set out unto M. John Lort, brother to Sampson Lort, one of the Commissioners for Propagation at 10 l. per ann.
The Tyths of Warren worth 80 l. per annum, and set out to the said John Lort at 35 l. per ann.
The Tyths of Castle Martin, worth 50 l. per annum, set out unto the said Roger White at 24 l. per ann.
Rhayadar worth 40 l. per annum, set out at 25 l.
St. Harmon, worth 50 l. per annum, set out at 24 l.
Hyopp, worth 50 l. per annum, set out at 25 per ann.
[Page 19] Llangunllo, worth 32 l. per annum, set out at 21 l. per annum.
Kevenleere, worth 80 l. per annum, and set out at 60 l. per annum.
Llanbadarn Vawre, worth 80 l. per annum, set out at 60 l. per annum.
Witten, worth 30 l. per annum, set out at 15 l. per ann.
Blethvach worth 80 l. per annum, set out at 35 l. per ann.
Cascob worth 40 l. per annum, set out 25 l. per ann.
New Radnor worth 80 l. per annum, set out at 50 l. per ann.
Bochrwd, and Llamb [...]der worth 120 l. per annum, set out at 80 l.
Glandestrey worth 70 l. per annum, set out at 40 l. per ann.
Bryngwyn worth 70 l. per annum, set out at 40 l. per annum.
New Church, worth 28 l. per annum, set out at 14 l. per annum.
Disserth and Bettus, worth 80 l. per annum, set at 35 l.
Aberedowe, worth 120 l. per annum, set out at 80 l. per ann.
The Tyths of Cherrington, in the County of Glamorgan, worth 100 l. per annum, and upwards, set out by Col. Jones servant to Mr. William Basset at 35 l. per annum, and contributions, and fifths thereout deducted, whereof the State is defrauded 75 l. per ann.
The Tyths of Bishopston, in the said County, worth 120 l. per annum and upwards, and 60 l. offered for it, yet let at 45 l. per ann. and contributions thereout, deducted, whereby the State hath the least part thereof.
Lambeder Vicaridge in the County of Pembroke, worth 140 l. per annum, set out at 60 l. per annum, to M. John Ellyott, and Morrice Bateman.
Llandisillio Vicaridge (for so much of it as lies in the County of Pembroke) worth 6 l. 6 s. 8 d. set out to Morrice Morgan at 3 l: 10 s.
Llanvalteg Castle Deren in the County of Carmarthen, worth 100 l. per annum, let out at 40 l. per annum, and Taxations thereout allowed.
The Vicaridge of Llanuthull, worth 40 l. per annum, and upwards, set out at 22 l. per ann.
[Page 28]The Vicaridge of Llangamarch, worth 60 l. per annum, set out at 34 l. per ann.
The Vicaridge of Llawrenny, worth 80 l. per annum, and upward; set out at 30 l. per annum, and contributions thereout paid, and the Parishioners could not Farme the same though they offered for it 44 l. and to pay all Taxations, and Contributions.
Lanbeder in the County of Cardigan, worth 50 l. a yeare, set out at 30 l. per ann.
Nantgwulle worth 20 l. per annum, set out 10 l. per annum, and contributions thereout paid, and the Parishoners could not have the same, though they offered 15 l. for the same, and to pay contributions besides.
The Tythe of the Parish of Trednock valued at 60 l. per annum, and so much offered, with good security for payment thereof, yet let out at 28 l. per ann.
The Impropriate Tythe of Llandilio Groseny (late the Earl of Worcesters) worth 100 l. per annum, set out to Nich. Symons at 60 l. per annum, although the Petitioners offered 95 l. per ann. paying contributions.
The Tythe of Llanvetherine, worth 100 l. per annum, & the Parishioners offered 80 l. per annum for it, yet let out at 60 l. per annum to one Charles Godard, his wife being Mr. Cradocks neere Kinswoman.
The Tythe of Gresmont worth 100 l. per annum, and so offered by the Parishoners, but let out to a brother of one of the Commissioners for Propagation at 10 l. per annum, and so for the rest and residue for all Parishes within the said Counties, being every where set out at undervalues.
2 Secondly, the Petitioners will prove that the said Tythes and Premises have not been posted up, and publickly exposed to Farme to the Parishoners, and particular owners and others that would have given most for the same, as is usuall in Improving and advancing other Rents and publique Revenues, disposable by the Parliament, and others Authorized by them.
3. By letting the same to Friends, Kindred, Creatures and alliance of the Sequestrators and others intrusted, with the letting [Page 29] thereof as some have been before particularly instanced by name, and divers others that might be named.
The Seventh Generall HEAD.
7. That for want of the due Execution of the said Act, the Petitioners together with the Inhabitants endure a famine of the Word of God.]
More Particularly,
1. By the scarsity of the persons stipended, allowed and appointed to preach and officiate.
2. By allowing persons to preach and officiate that have borne actuall Armes against the Parliament, and other ill affected persons to the Parliament, (viz.)
One Hugh Rogers of the County of Monmouth, who hath been in actuall Armes against the Parliament, and so continued whilest the late King had any visible strength or interest in the Nation to protect him, and others of his Confederates of the same Principles; The said Hugh Rogers being one that did formerly revile and vilify the Parliament, and Army, and all the godly party and their proceedings.
That Robert Prichard Parson of Neverne, hath during the late Warrs deserted his habitation, joyned with the enemy, and acted with Captaine Edward Lloyd his Father in Law in Kidwelley Castle against the Parliament, and as it is generally believed hath not yet subscribed the Ingagement, yet allowed and beneficed.
That one Hughes of the County of Carmarthen, being a person disaffected to the Parliament, and present Government, and one that joyned with the enemy in the late Rebellion of Poyer, &c. against the Parliament, is permitted and allowed to preach and officiate, and holds one or two Benefices; whereas divers others that never bore Armes against the Parliament are ejected on very slender accompt, particularly Mr Nicholson, M. Evans, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Powell, Mr. Hatley, Doctor Edwards, Mr. Griffith, and others.
[Page 22]That one Thomas Price of the County of Cardigan was setled by the Bishop since the reducing of that County to the obedience of the Parl. and one that hath kept an Alehouse, and a great frequenter of Alehouses.
3. The Inhabitants endure a famine of the Word of God, by reason severall other persons now imployed and stipended to preach and officiate that are deboyst, drunken persons, scandalous in their lives and conversations.]
More particularly,
Thomas Field of the County of Penbroke, John Phillips of the same, David Evans of the County of Cardigan, William Jones of the County of Brecon, William Jones of the County of Monmouth, and severall others that might be instanced, insomuch that the Inhabitants are much discouraged to repaire to their meetings and exercises.
4. The Inhabitants indure a Famine of the Word of God by reason of severall illiterate persons that are of different opinions, that doe teach and officiate, causing great rents and divisions among their Auditories, and severall contestations and disturbances, to the endangering the peace of the County.
More particularly,
At Myniddv-stayne on Munday in Easter week last; at Bedways on Low-Easter Sunday; at Swanzey, at Merthir, and other places: at some of which differences and disturbances there have been severall swords drawne, and some hurt, and the Inhabitants put to a great feare, lest these differences doe grow wider, to the endangering of the publique peace of the Country.
By which means the Inhabitants are very much disheartned and discouraged from comming to their Meetings, which are so remote and uncertaine, that the aged, lame, impotent, and poorer sort that are not provided with horses, cannot, and many thousands know not where or how to come to those places where they exercise their meetings, being sometimes ten, sometimes twenty miles, and sometimes more from some parts of a County, and one while in one County and another while in another County, and but very few in any one place constant: So that a man on a Lords day may ride twenty miles through a [Page] county, and not see a Church doore open, supplyed with a constant, able, godly Minister.
More particularly,
In the county of Brecon, there are above fifty Parish Churches (besides Chappels) that for above this twelve moneeh have not been supplyed with a constant preaching Minister, and at this very time on most Lords dayes there are above fifty Churches that are shut up and unsupplyed.
5. That in the Parishes of Llanvihangell Nantbrane, Llandilervane, Tralloigne, the Colledge of Brecon. (where formerly there was a Lecture once a fortnight) and many other Churches, the Word of God hath not been taught these two yeers.
That the Towne of Brecon. being one of the chiefest Corporations, and most populous in South wales, the Towne of Crickhowell, the Towne of the Hay and Buielt, being all Market towns in the said County, there have not been any one constant able Teacher or Minister for two yeers last past. And divers other townes and parishes in South-wales which might be instanced, whereby the people are much exposed, and the greater opportunity offered them to profane the Lords day, and spend the same in Alehouses, and other leud places, to the great dishonouring of God, and endangering the soules and consciences of the Inhabitants thereof.
6. That the persons named and intrusted for Approvers by the said Act of Febr. 1649. doe live very remote one from another, some in North-wales, some in South-wales, and one of them in London, who being also Itinerant Teachers, which makes their residence unconstant, they doe meet but seldome to receive, entertain, and incourage others to come in and offer themselves to supply the rooms of the ejected Ministers, without whose approbation none can be admitted. Whereas the Commissioners in order to ejecting of the Ministers, and disposing of the Tythes and premisses, doe sit frequently by five, but by twelve for Appeals but very seldome.
The Eight generall Head.
8. That Children are not bred and educated in the Instruction and information of the Lord.]
The Petitioners will make that good.
- 1. By reason of few Oxthodox godly able Teachers and Ministers are imployed to preach and officiate in each County.
- 2. Because the good worke of Catechizing Children, and Instructing them in the information of the Lord is wholly laid aside in all, or most Parishes and Counties.
- 3. By reason so few godly Schoole-masters are allowed, and stipended for that purpose, and some of those imployed and allowed of, are unfit for to undergoe, or be imployed in so great and weighty a businesse.
More particularly,
- One Phillip William, That is a young man of no competent learning for a Schoole-master, yet neverthelesse appointed head Schoole-master, in the Colledge of Brecon, being one of the chiefest Townes in South-wales, and that one Hugh Powell is his Usher or Assistant (who indeed is the onely able man for learning) being a known Papist, and one that hath formerly bred up many Children in Popery, to the griefe and discomforture of their Parents, yet in the face of Towne and Country allowed to officiate there.
- That one David Evans a stipended allowed Schoole-master, at New Radnor (being the Shire Towne of that County) is a drunken deboyst man.
- Hugh Jones of the County of Glamorgan the like. Besides divers others that might be instanced, whereby the Inhabitants are kept back, from sending their Children to be trained up in Religion and Learning, by such ill qualified Tutors.
The Ninth Generall HEAD.
9. That the Inhabitants cannot take notice of the Parliaments Acts, Edicts, and Proclamations, wherein their publique welfare, the liberty and safety of their persons and estates are concerned.] viz.
1. For want of a convenient number of Ministers in the respective Counties, by whom the same ought to be read and published to the respective Parishioners and Inhabitants.
2. By reason that some of the Itinerants are so ignorant, that they cannot read the Act of Parliament (for instance.) When the Act of Parliament for publick Thanksgiving for the Victory obtained at Worcester, against the late King of Scots, was sent down to the County of Glamorgan, to be publiquely read in all Churches and Chappells, to the Inhabitants, the Act being delivered to one Walter Williams to be read on that day, the said Walter Williams answered that he could not read the same.
An Abstract of the Particulars.
- 1. MInisters ejected in the seven Counties; 237 and upwards. Besides Curats and Stipendaries, imployed to preach and officiate for Pluralists and Impropriators Chappells of case, &c.
- 2. The number of the Parishes within the said seven Counties. 700 and odd.
- 3. The number of the present Stipended, Not above 100. allowed Ministers to supply those Parishes.
So that there are 600 Parishes unsupplied.
- 4. The number of the present allowed, Not above 18. Stipended Schoole-Masters.
- 5. The value of the Tythes, &c. received for the maintenance of Ministers and Schoole-masters. 20000 l. per annum, and upwards.
- 6. That severall of the Ministers and Schoole-masters now Stipended, are drunken deboyst persons, some illiterate, others [Page 34] that are Malignant, and bore Armes against the Parliament.
- 7. The Tythes, &c. undervalued in all Parishes within the 7. Counties and the Commissioners accompt onely for two yeares but of—19000 l. or there abouts.
Which is lesse than the Petitioners Charge and Offer by—20000 l. or thereabouts.
These were the Particulars faithfully transcribed, and Copied out of the Originall; which were put in and lodged with the Committee.
And because there is discovered an effectuall Letter, under Mr. William Watkin's own hand (being Register to the Commissioners in Brecknock-shire, and Radnor-shire, Clerk of the Peace under Major Gen. Harrison, within the said County of Brecknock, And lately servant to Colonel Phillip Jones, who wrote all the Commissioners Orders; And had speciall influence upon the Sequestrators and their Agents, Received the Tithes of Bochwrd to his owne use, and set out the Vicaridge of Glasbury, being worth a 100 l. a yeare to his Carpenter for 50 l. a yeare,) which he wrote to Mr. Jenkins Jones, one of the Itinerants in Brecknock-shire; I could not pretermit to insert the same to common view.
A Copy of Mr. William Watkins LETTER, to Mr. Jenkin Jones.
THe twelve pound may be thus got. The Sequestrators is to take them up from Mr. Lewis, and when the money is Received, you may safely pay them, where you [Page 35] please, because it is such an Arrere that the Treasurer knoweth not of, for it lieth not in Charge before him.
If Mr. Lewis denyeth what hee confessed, Let the Sequestrator shew him the inclosed Note.
8. Novemb. 1651.
For Mr. William Jones, and Captaine Morgan Sequestrators.
IT is concieved that there is three or foure yeares Rent due, upon Meredeth Lewis Esq for the Prebendary of Llanvthul, He confessed to be due for one yeare, and told so to me about a moneth since,
And this was added in the Perclause of the Letter to Mr. Jenkins Jones.
IF that will not doe, then let the Sequestrators demand a sight of his Acquittances since the yeare 1642. And then you shall find him out,
[Page 36]Here is Mr. William Watkins his Directions to Mr. Jenken Jones, to get Twelve pounds] and that hee dispose of it as hee please] being an Arrere, which the Treasurer knew not of; And hee gives the Reason for it, For it lay not in charge before him.] And left Mr. Lewes should any way escape the payment, hee betrayes the Gentlemans confession to him, and guides the Sequestrators to finde him out by former Acquittances.
Here is a pretty Trick indeed, who could wish a neater contrivance to finde out Mr. William Watkins, or a more evident Demonstration, to descry to publike view, How a man bearing such Offices, and so specially intrusted in the Common wealth, doth thus notoriously betray the trust committed unto him? But (Ex ungu [...] Leonem) I leave to the judgement of all conscientious Men to understand how plaine the State hath beene defrauded by such Plots; And what secret Correspondencies there are betweene Captaine Jenkin Jones, and his Lieutenant, Mr. William Watkins to advance their Estates in the way of gain-full godlinesse, appeares by their businesse in the County, and City of Gloucester, where above a 100 Horse and Armes were raysed (at the late comming in of the King of Scots to Worcester) which they both mounted with their owne Men, and though they promised to restore the same againe upon their returne to the owners, yet they carried Horse and Armes to Brecknockshire, and never restored them back, which is worth his Highnesse consideration.
And so I proceed to the last part, which is, The Commissioners Answer, and the Petitioners Reply.
III. The ANSVVER of Col. Phillipp Jones. Bushy Mansell. John Price. Rowland Dawkins. Edward Stradling. John Nicholas. James Phillips. Thomas Watkins. Robert Jones. Sampson Lort. Jenkin Francklyn. Rich. King. Rice Williams. William Blethin. John Daniell. John Herbert. John Bowen. Christopher Catchmay, Esquires. Commissioners for Propagation of the Gospell in Wales, and the Reply of the Petitioners of the Six Counties of South Wales, & County of Monmouth thereunto, lodged with the Committee for Plundered Ministers the 20 of August. 1652. and there Remaining of Record.
The Commissioners Answer to the Petitioners particular Heads.
The Petitioners Reply, to the Commissioners Answer.
1. Ans.
THat there were none ejected, but in obedience to the Act, and upon cleare grounds, and those that conceaved themselves unjustly dealt with had their free course [Page 38] of appeale to this Committee, wheather came one from Monmouthshire, but had the judgement against him affirmed, though he were in our opinion as meet for favour as any we proceeded against.
1. Rep.
THat there were divers ejected contrary to the Act without due summons, and examination of Witnesses, and Copies of Orders, Depositions, Papers and other proceedings denied [Page 38] them, whereby they were barred of their free course for appeale to this Honourable Committee; And if the Commissioners shewed so little favour unto the one that did appeale (who is namelesse) though he in their own judgement and opinion was as meet for favour as almost any they proceeded against (as by their Answer appeares) what could the rest expect? And therefore no marvaile if they appealed not to 12, where 5 of those that first gave judgement against them, sit to confirme the same. And so much the rather, because some of the Commissioners have publiquely declared against the very calling and function of the Ministery.
2. Answer
There are yet remaining unejected (127) and upwards of the old Ministers.
2. Reply.
That there are not unejected of the old Ministers, the number of one hundred twenty seven as by the Answer is alleadged: And that many of those that are left unjected, have beene greater Delinquents against the Parliament, and more scandalous in their lives and conversations, then many of those Ejected.
Comomis. Ans. to the 2. Head. 1. Ans.
That we have not refused nor been wanting to give incouragement to any godly man fitted for the Ministery that was tendred unto us.
Pet. Reply.
The Petitioners humbly conceive that the Commissioners have not discharged their duties (in not refusing, and not being wanting to give incouragement to any godly man fitted for the Ministery that was tendered them) (admitting that to be true.) But rather it was their duty to provide such godly able men, as well as to [...]t those that were unworthy, according to the trust in them reposed by the Parliament. And the Petitioners do affirme that the Commssioners have refused and rejected some [Page 39] that have been approved by this Honourable Committee particularly Mr. Collier, Mr. Bywater and others; And the persons named for approved in the Act (being Itinerants, and living remote one from another) meet but very seldome to entertaine and incourage godly men to tender themselves unto them; Wherers all possible diligence is used in ejection of the Ministers, and disposing of the Tythes, And have silenced Mr. Matthew Williams a godly able man, that preached gratis and had so done for many yeares before, not expecting any temporall reward, the Commissioners having no proofes of Delinquency or scandall against him, so that it is more then apparent their designe tends to the extirpation both of the Ministers and Ministery.
2 Answer.
That wee have by speciall Messengers, Letters, and by all other means laboured with the Churches of Christ in New England, London, and the Ʋniversities, for a supply, and through the goodnesse of God have already procured seaventy five: besides the (127) above mentioned left unejected) approved able Ministers to preach the Gospell in those parts, that are most English, besides about (60) godly gifted men, that by the advice of the Ministers, named in the Act are appointed to preach to the Welch. And there are about (80) more with us, which go about preaching the Gospell with great successe in the Welsh Tongue. But taking no maintenance from the tythes [Page 40] we forbeare to mention them. And though there are not as many able Teachers as wee could wish, and are in a hopefull way of procuring, yet we may with safety say, the least County hath many more then by the Petition is suggested.
2 Reply.
That the Petitioners humbly conceive that the Commissioners (had they been so pleased) might have found divers persons better qualified, and more fit for the worke of the Ministery, then many of those by them imployed not onely in New England, London, and the Universities, but neerer home, but that the Tithes and Premisses were of no small advantage to the Commissioners Agents, and the Farmers thereof. And as for the (75) 60) and 80) Ministers and Teachers alleaged to be now imployed, and stipended, besides the (127) pretended to be unejected, which in all make (342) The Petitioners do Av [...]rre, and will make it appeare, if it please this Honourable Committee to give way, that there are not above (100) orthodox [Page 40] godly able Ministers (if halfe so many) stipended, allowed and approved of according to the Act, to supply the 7 Counties, consisting of (700) Parishes, And as for the Commissioners hopes of further supply of Ministers for the future, The Petitioners have little cause to hope, or believe any better performance for the time to come; since their proceedings for nigh (3) years hath taken so small effect.
The Commissioners 3 Ans.
That we have endeavoured all we could to procure godly Schoole-masters from the Ʋniversity, &c. and have setled, and doe maintaine (29) which with those before in being make up (50) And are disposed into Market Townes, and other places most convenient within the said Counties.
The Petitioners 3. Reply.
That whereas the Commissioners pretend there are (50) godly Schoole-masters settled and maintained by them in the seven Counties; The Petitioners doe averre and will make it appeare there are not above (18) godly able Schoole-masters stipended, allowed, and approved of, according to the Act within the said 7 Counties, and severall others drunken deboist persons, scandalous in their lives and conversations, and one of them a Papist if not a Jesuit imployed assistant or Usher in the Towne of Brecon, and others ill affected persons to the Parliament, and present Government, as by their particulars more fully appeareth; And that severall Market Townes in the respective Counties are unsupplied with able Schoole-masters, to the decay of Religion and Learning, viz. Chrickhowell, Hay, Builte, Carmarthen, and other places.
The Commissioners 4. Ans.
That there are above 478 Parishes impropriated Parsonsonages and Vicaridges within [Page] in the said Counties unsequestred (2.) That for those that have been sequestred we have beene exceeding carefull to choose and intrust for each yeare honest, and reasonable men for Collectors in each County, and one Treasurer for the whole, that the accompts might be in the clearest way to be delivered upon the determination of the Act, or sooner if called for: As to the value in the Petition mentioned, though we tooke great care to appoint honest able men Agents, for the letting and setting in each County. We finde they could not raise the whole Revenue of the Sequestred Tithes of the seven Counties to, but (9518 l.) (5 s.) 8 d.) for the yeare (1650.) And for the yeare 1651.) but (10418) 5 s.) 2 d.) And humbly conceive that more thereof could not be then made, out of which there is paid to Ministers, Schoole-masters, and others, according to the intent of the Act for Propagating of the Gospell, in the yeare 1650 the sum of (7923 l.) 13 s.) 5 d.) And for the yeare 1651 in part the sum of (5894 l.) 9 s.) 10 d.) the remainder whereof being for the yeare 1650: [Page 42] the sum of (1594 l.) 12 s.) 3 d.) and for the yeare 1651) 4523 l.) 15 s.) 4 d) resteth in the Tenants hands, so that the Ministers Probationers are not paid up their full sailares, for the yeare 1651. Nor some for the yeare 1650. And the Fifts and Contributions not fully knowne, nor allowed.
Petitioners 4 Reply.
The Petitioners doe deny there are 478 Parishes impropriated, &c. unsequestred, as by the [Page] Commissioners answer is aledged; But acknowledge the Commissioners have been carefull in imploying Collectors, Treasurers and other Agents, in the respective Counties to let, set, receive and dispose of the Tythes and Premises, who have since their imployments, improved their own Estates so well, that in so short a time many of them have become great purchasers; And it appeares by the Commissioners owne Answer, that they make accompt to the Parliament but for (19936 l.) 10 s) 10 d) for the yeares 1650, and 1651, although the Petitioners doe affirme that the Tythes, and Premises within the said 7 Counties are annually worth 20000 l. and have, and doe hereby offer so much for the same, and what hath beene paid out of the Premises to Ministers, and Schoole-masters, will more fully appeare by the Commissioners particular accompt, which the Petitioners have not yet seene, but pray a sight and Copy thereof, and liberty to surcharge the same. And for the sum of 1594 l. 12 s. 3 d) for the yeare 1650. and 4523 l. 15 s. 4 d. for 1651. that resteth (as they say) in the Tenants hands in arreare. The Petitioners doe averre, that if any be unpaid, it resteth in the hands of [Page 42] such as are friends to the Commissioners, or their Agents, who for reasons best knowne to themselves, did not use their wonted rigidnesse in Collecting, and Receiving the same, as hath been shewne to others of further Relation; who have beene forced to pay the treble values of their Tithes, and how well the Commissioners have disposed of the vast revenue aforesaid, may appeare by their Answer annexed, wherein they complaine of want of monies to pay the Ministers approbationers; who are not paid up their full Salaries for the yeare 1650. nor some for the yeare 1651. though on due examination it will appeare, that some of the Itinerants have not above 10 or 20 l. per annum. And the fifts and contributions not fully knowne, or allowed as by the Commissioners Answer is ingeniously confessed; Whereas one of the Commissioners, Major Generall Harrison, not long since openly confessed before your Honours, that there was a Banke of money in South-wales; And when the Fifts and Contributions are paid, and allowed what will accrue to the State is left to your Honours consideration. And what hope the Petitioners have of a future supply of Ministers and Schools-Masters, for the 600 Parishes that are all destiture of Ministers, according to the Commissioners promise in their precedent Answer Particular (2) when in this particular part of their Answer, relating to accompts, they complaine of wanting Monies to pay these few, and inconsiderate number of Ministers, and Schoole-Masters now imployed, especially when the Fifts and Contributions are paid and allowed; By all which it may appeare to this Honourable Committee, the truth of the Petition, in relation to the aforesaid Charge.
The Commissioners 5. Answer.
To say nothing of the 127 unejected, we have taken care to disperse the Ministers above mentioned, paid out of the Treasury over the Counties as equally, and conveniently as wee might with due respect had to the carrying on the worke of God, and the particular inclination of the Peoples spirits, and through singular mercy to the Word of of God▪ hath in these last yeares beene more frequently, and with more successe preached then in many Ages before, whereunto wee doubt not but those that have lately traveled through this poore Country, will beare witnesse.
The Petitioners 5. Reply.
That they have so dispersed them, that a man may ride 20 miles together on the Lords day, and not finde one doore open, supplied with a constant able godly Minister, and how the Worke and Word of God hath beene propagated in those parts the two last yeares, the Petitioners doe appeale to all indifferent unbiassed Men, and especially to the Judges and other publique Officers, who are and have been imployed by the State there, and can give a further relation of the sad condition of those Countries, and what rents, divisions, and disturbances of the publique peace have beene made in those parts, since the Itinanaries were imployed there to the distraction of the minds, and consciences of the people.
The Commissioners 6. Answer.
We have been very carefull that it might not be so, but where it otherwise happened it was upon some of these insuing reasons.
1. That most part of the yeare 1650. and in some places much of the yeare 1651. was spent and most of the profits raysed by the scandalous [Page 44] pretended Ministers before they were ejected.
2. For better satisfaction of the Countrey and carrying on the Worke of the Lord without offence to the people, we tooke order that the Sequestred Tythes &c. should be let to the Parishioners, that every man might enjoy what came from his owne Lands, at somewhat a lower rate, in case they would take it, then to any particular Farmour.
3. In some cases where the ejected Minister was much in debt, and had a great family, and no other Estate, and had Fifts due to his Wife, hee or some of them was admitted Tennant at somewhat an undervalue, to answer these considerations.
4. Vicaridges that were heretofore in respect of Easter-booke offering, &c. received of the Papists considerable are now little worth.
5. The considerations had to Taxes, Reparations, and other incident charges, besides the generall disgust against Tythes, and the disturbance put upon our Countrey by malignants at home, at the least Invasion of the Enemy, and since by the promoters of the Petition, by reason of all which [Page 45] wee have found it no small difficulty, to bring them to the rate they are at.
The Petitioners 6. Reply.
1. How carefull they have beene therein appeares by the particulars preferred to your Honours by the Petitioners, which they are ready to prove, who doe further affirme that a great number of the Ministers were ejected by the Committees of Sequestration, in the respective Counties in the yeares (1647) [Page 44] 1648. and part of 1649. which lay under Sequestration, when the Commissioners for propagation were impowered by the said Act, who acted so vigorusly in the yeare 1650. that all or most of the Tithes and Premisses of the value aforesaid were Sequestred in that yeare, who have or might have received the same.
2. To this the Petitioners say, That since the exhibiting of their Petition, the Commissioners have made a formall Order, that the Inhabitants should farme their owne Tithes for the ensuing harvest, thinking thereby to pacifie the people for the former indirect carriages, and to prevent their prosecution of the Petition; But how well ever this new salver hath wrought, and beene persued can be testified by thousands of the poore Inhabitants, who have received little or no benefit thereby, the Commissioners Agents still farming their Tithes to their Friends, and Creatures at their former undervallues.
3. That neither the Ministers debts, nor yet the charge of Children, nor Family would induce the Commissioners, and their Agents to grant reasonable bargaines to them, nor yet their Fifts according to the Act: unlesse [Page 45] to such of them that were especially befriended: and some could not have their Fifts, except they ingaged to forbeare the execution of their Ministery, and some had speciall allowance for not preaching.
4. That although the Inhabitants have little encouragement, or any reason to pay any Tithes, or any Offerings at all save onely in Obedience to the Parliaments Authority, having so little spirituall comfort administred to them for their Tythes and Offerings, yet the Commissioners Agents have not been wanting in the exact gathering of the Tithes and Offerings, not omitting the very Tithe Eggs.
5. That the Commissioners, or their Agents have hitherto taken little or no care in repairing of Churches and Schooles, divers of which are fallen to great decay, and what they allowed towards Contributions, may partly appeare by their owne shewing particular 4. where the Commissioners ingeniously confessed, that the Fifts and Contributions are not fully knowne, nor allowed, and what disturbances the Petitioners brought on the Commissioners by their humble and modest addresse to the Parliament, setting forth their grievances, and craving redresse thereof; Having neither themselves denyed to pay their Tithes, nor perswaded, advised, or obstructed others from paying the same, the Tithes being most strictly and punctually paid then ever the Ministers received it, is humbly left to your Honours consideration.
And if there have beene any disturbance at all, as indeed there hath been too much, the same hath been done, committed, and occasioned by the Itineraries & Commissioners Agents, by their threats, railing and invective carriages, and expressions against the Petitioners, threatning them with Sequestration and ruine, for petitioning the Parliament, which carriages of theirs the Petitioners humbly conceive to be contrary to the knowne Rights, Liberties and Freedomes of this Nation. And to what difficulty the Commissioners have been put unto, in raysing lesse then 10000 l. per annum out of the Tithes and Premises, when [Page 46] as the Petitioners doe offer 20000 l. per annum, for the same is humbly left to your Honours grave considerations.
The Commissionrs 7. Answer.
That wee fully know the contrary, as to places of any largenesse, to which a considerable number of people belong; But there may be some few Chappells shut up, and decayed in the time of the Warres, which the Inhabitants adjacent, having a more large and convenient place neare to attend the worship of God doe neglect, besides the Reparation thereof is alwayes to be at their particular charge, whereto they have received no hinderance or discouragement from us.
The Petitioners 7. Reply.
That as for those few Churches that are standing, and in reparation, the Petitioners have cause to blesse the Lord, for the care of the Parliament, in making an Act to enable Justices of the Peace, to raise Taxations towards the Reparation of Churches, amongst whom the Lord hath beene pleased to raise a few that desire the publick worship of his Name. But as for the Commissioners care therein, who are many of them Justices of the Peace, they shewed but small affections to support Churches, having contributed little or nothing towards so pious a worke out of the vast Revenue of the Tithes, &c. which they ought to have at least wise so farre as it formerly concerned Tithes, whether Impropriate or Presentatives, since the Commissioners and their Agents received the profits, chargeable with such reparations. The Petitioners humbly conceived them bound in conscience, and according to the trust in them reposed, not onely to repaire and uphold the Churches, which is the least part of their duty, but also the worship, and glory of God therein; And what incouragement the Parishioners have to repaire, and uphold Churches at their owne particular charge, when they cannot get Ministers to Preach the Word of God therein, and performe those other spirituall Rights and duties, which appertaine to the Church and Ministery of God is humbly left to your Honours pious consideration.
[Page]The Petitioners further averting th [...] since this Itinerary way of propagating the Gospell hath beene set on foote in those parts, the Pastors and their particular Auditors take more delight in Teaching and Expounding the Word of God, &c. in private Houses and other places, then the publick Worship of God in publique Churches, where the Inhabitants may have timely, and certaine notice to resort to the same.
And of this sad truth, and all other their Assertions. The Petitirners call upon the Great God of Heaven, who knoweth all the wayes and secrets of man to beare witnesse, the matter by them set forth and averred being such visible publique and knowne truths, that they doe admire at the ways of these that gainesay, and goe about to suppresse the same; And the Petitioners next to the Lord doe appeale to all indifferent unbiassed Strangers, Travellers, Judges, Magistrates, that know those parts, and to all other Inhabitants there, other then the Commissioners, and Tithes gatherers and persons concerned to give evidence of the truth of what the Petitioners affirme.
The Commissioners 8. Answer.
That the Sheriffes and Civill Magistrates take care to have them proclaimed at their Country Courts, and other publique meetings, and to post them up in all markept Townes, and the Ministers (where required) are not wanting therein. And wee humbly hope those that formerly know our County, and now take notice of the alteration, wrought amongst [Page] them through the speciall kindnesse, and power of God going along with the Gospell, will not easily believe they suffer much themselves or the publique from them by any fault therein.
The Petitioners 8 Reply.
That the Parliament have not onely thought fit to command all publique Officers in England, to proclaime, and make knowne all their Acts, Edicts and Commands to the Inhabitants, but have also thought it fit, and necessary to command all Ministers, and Pastors within their respective Congregations to publish and make knowne the same; To the end none may be ignorant [Page] thereof. And that none of the [...] poore Inhabitants may suffer the penalties of these Acts, for transgressing against the same, when they neither heard or saw the same, or were made privy therewith (there being a great distance betwixt Westminster Hall and Wales.) And therefore the Petitioners doe well hope that the same commendable course, commandded, and observed in England, ought to be also Practised in Wales, being part of the same Common-wealth, subject to the same Law, and Authority, and not independant or distant from the supreame Power of the Parliament. The Petitioners acknowledging the goodnesse, and favour of the Parliament, to have beene all along equally distributed to them in their Acts, Orders and Edicts as well as to other parts of the Nation. But the Petitioners with griefe, and sadnesse of heart cannot but complaine for want of the due examination, and observance thereof.
And whereas the said Commissioners, or at least wise those that have put in their said Answer, under a shew of Humanity, doe uncharitably conceive, and give forth that the Promoters of the Petition are persons well known to be pretenders of the Worke of God, thereby to carry on other designes, branding them abroade, and before this Honourable Committee by way of Recrimination, with the Name of Malignants, Delinquents, and all affected persons, and such as have a designe to bring in power Malignants and to re-invest scandalous Malignant unpreaching Ministers, and Curats, notwithstanding their Petition and Prosecution thereof speaks the contrary, The Petitioners and Promoters thereof dare appeale (as touching the sincerity of their thoughts and affections to the Parliament, and the truth of the Petition) to the Righteous God, that judgeth righteously, and trieth the Heart, and Reynes, before whose Judgement Seat they doubt not but to appeare as innocent, from those things laid to their [Page 49] charge, as most of their Accusers, who as they feare doe judge before their time, and are wise above what is Revealed. The Lord onely knowes who are his, and who are onely pretenders of true Religion, and who not, and who they are that drive and carry at selfe interest, under faire and specious pretences, and count gaine godlinesse, making too great hast to grow rich (which true Believers dare not doe.) The Petitioners therefore not regarding the judgement of men, dare trust their Good and Gracious God in all Conditions, And doe humbly Acquiesce in his most Righteous Judgements.
Earnestly beseeching your Honours, Seriously, Piously, and Christianly to weigh and consider the Premises, and the Particulars exhibited by the Petitioners. And as it was impossible for the Petitioners to prepare the particulars of the seven Counties in two Dayes time, much lesse in one, so it was impossible to Reply to the Commissioners Answer, untill they saw the same, and had a Copy thereof; Especially not understanding the meaning of the Order, untill it was explained. And as your Honours favourably entertained, and received their particulars, though the Petitioners for the reason aforesaid failed in strictnesse of time; So they likewise pray your Honours to accept of this their Reply, the Petitioners having not obtained a Copy of their Answer, untill your Honours by the Order of the 16th of July. did command, and Order the same, though your Petitioners ever since the 10. of May since it was lodged with this Committee, used their endeavours therein, which untill July the 16th proved fruitlesse; And the Petitioners pray this Reply may be added, and annexed to their particulars, to be reported to the Parliament, that Command may issue fourth to the Countrey according to the Resolves of Parliament, to examine Witnesses for discovery, and manifestation of the truth of the premises.
And the Petitioners likewise pray the particular Booke of Accompt, mentioned in the Report of the Sub-Committee, may be produced, and the Petitioners have a Copy thereof, with time and liberty to sur-charge the same.
And that your Honours would favourably consider of all the grievances in Order to a settlement, of a convenient number of Godly able Ministers, and Schoole-Masters, such [Page 50] as the Parliament and your Honours shall approve of, and an accompt for the profits of the Tithes, &c. Received since the Commissioners were impowered.
And that in Order to a future supply of such Ministers, and Schoole-Masters, and improving, and advancing the Tithes and Revenues aforesaid; The Parliament will be pleased to take such course therein, as they shall thinke meete; for where is no vision the People perish: And so having done our best endeavours therein, and discharged our Consciences, we shall say no more at this time, but patiently waite on our God, who in his One time without doubt will beare Witnesse of the Truth by the Petitioners Averred in the Petition. In which they aime at nothing more than the Glory of God, the good of His Church and People, The true Propagation of his glorious Gospell; The safety and well-fare of their Countrey in particular, and this Commonwealth in generall, waiting in hope and Expectation of a blessing, and successe accordnigly.
Mr. Tho Lewis, Mr. Tho. Powell, and Mr. Griffith Hatley, their Letter to Mr. Jenk. Jones.
MR. Jones, we desire to be resolved by you whether the ejected Ministers of this Country, who have been silenced & suspended (now this long time) ab officio & beneficio may at last have the door of utterance opened, and be permitted to preach the Gospel freely among those that do much want it, & do as earnestly call for it, as the parched Earth after the dew and Raine of Heaven. The reason why we put this busines to the question is: because about the last spring, some of our fellow Ministers, taking the boldnes to preach the word of God, (were some of them) sent prisoners to Chepsto Garrison, others pull'd out of the Pulpit, and all the rest were threatned to have the same measure meted unto them, if they should make the same attempts: and therefore wee desire to know whether we are under the same restraint still, or are at liberty: wee doubt not but that you can resolve us herein, as well as any other in this County, and we hope you will be pleased to satisfie our civill request herein, and vouchsafe a line of answer, which you may direct to either of the subscribers, who are
Mr. Jenk. Jones Letter in Answer to the former.
YOur Letter dated Feb. 6. 1653. I received the first of March. And in answer to what you propose therein, I shall onely put you in minde that you are still, and (more) than like to be in the same condition, with those in the last Spring; And tell you that you are to expect the same measure from the See the Government, or the Articles signed by the Lord Protector. present Power (whose connivance you seem (at least) to fansie to your selves.) As your brethren had the last Spring from the (then) powers; And also that you need not pretend your being pressed as from pitty to water the parched earth, there being more Sermons Preached (now) in one moneth, then were formerly in twelve, and with very much (though I dare not say with a greater blessing; consider the restraint-fearing-Spirit that's in you,
Mr. Lewis, Mr. Powel, and Mr. Ha [...]lies Reply to Mr. Jenkin Jones Answer.
MR. Jones, wee thank you for your Letter: wherein you have fully resolved us, what we must expect, if we Preach the Gospell in this poor Countrey; nothing but bonds and imprisonment (if you divine aright) abide us. If we be silent, and do not Preach, we are reproached, and if we do Preach we are menaced. A hard dilemma. Sir, notwithstanding your paines in preaching (which nevertheless is much abated of what it was, since you have caught the f [...]h that you looked for) there are many dry and thirsty soules in this Country that are very seldom refreshed with the dew of Heavenly Doctrine, and for want thereof do daily relapse to Popery, and that in no small number; we could name above 20 Parish churches in this County, in many whereof there have not been above two Sermons this 12 moneth, and in most of them none at all: yet the Inhabitants pay their Tithes still as formerly. Their complaints [Page 52] have fill'd the ears of men long since, and have (no doubt e're this) ascended up to the eares of the Lord of Saboth We shall therefore (in compassion to these poor soules) adventure to bestow our paines among them, and put our selves upon the candor & clemency of our present Governour, from whom we do expect (and doubt not to find) better measure then you forbad us; or then our fellow Ministers received (the last Spring) when other powers swayed, to wit, your own.
That there are more Sermons preached (now) in a month then was formerly in 12. will hardly finde credit, with any that knowes this Country, and is such a story that men will admire to have proceeded from your Pen: since that we do not know of above two Itinerant Preachers, resident in the Country (and one of the two hardly worth the name of a Preacher) whereas formerly there was a preaching Minister (almost) in every parish (some Impropriations except) and most of them graduated in the Universities, and able and painfull men in their callings. Consider better of that passage of your Letter, and consider what spirit you are of; for the Spirit of God is a spirit of truth, Nec mendax est, nec mordax.
And thus you have a full Narration of the Petition, the Petitioners charge, The Commissioners Answer, and the Reply thereunto, which makes evident to all Christian soules, the deplorable Condition of the Inhabitants of Wales concerning their Soules we fare, wherein they continue to this very day: enduring a Famine of the Word, and the Bread of life, being tendered unto them, is forbidden; As may appeare by these Letters sent unto me from 3 Reverend and Orthodox Ministers, and Batchelors of Divinity, within the County of Brecknock, directed to Capt Jenk Jones, one of the Itineraries, with his unchristian, and insolent Answer thereunto.