Severall letters and passages between His Excellency, the Lord Generall Cromwell, and William Dundas, governour of Edinburgh Castle, and the ministers therein, since His Excellencies entrance into Edinburgh whereunto are annexed some quaeries that were then sent to the said governour and ministers.

Severall letters and passages between His Excellency, the Lord Generall Cromwell, and William Dundas, governour of Edinburgh Castle, and the ministers therein, since His Excellencies entrance into Edinburgh whereunto are annexed some quaeries that were then sent to the said governour and ministers.

Table of contents

Title page

For the Honourable the Governour of the Castle of Edinburgh.

From the Governour of Edinburgh Castle to Colonell Whalley, with my Lord Generals answer.

For the Honourable the Governour of the Castle of Edinburgh.

A Letter from the Governour of Edinburgh Castle, for the Right Honourable the Lord Cromwell, Commander in chief of the English Army.

For the Governour of Edinburgh Castle.

For the Governour of Edinburgh Castle, these.

For the right Honourable the Commander in Chief of the English Army.

Finis.[Page]

§

§

[Page] [Page] Severall Letters and Passages between his Excellency the Lord Generall CROMWELL, and William Dundas Governour of Edinburgh Castle, And the Ministers therein, Since his Excellencies Entrance into Edinburgh.

Whereunto are annexed some Quaries, that were then sent to the said Governour and Ministers.

Printed and sold in York by T. Broad, at his Shopp near Common-Halls-Gate. Septem. 27. 1650.

For the Honourable the Governour of the Castle of Edinburgh.

[Page]

SIR, I received Command from my Lord Generall, to desire you, to let the Ministers of Edinburgh, now in the Castle with you, know, that they have free libertie granted them, if they please to take the pains, to preach in their severall Churches; and that my Lord hath given speciall Command both to Officers and Souldiers, that they shall not in the least be molested.

Sir,

I am your most humble servant Edw: Whalley.

Edinburgh Septem. 9. 1650.

From the Governour of Edinburgh Castle to Colonell Whalley, with my Lord Generals answer.

SSR, I have communicated the desire of your Letter to such of the Ministers of Edinburgh as are with me, who have desired me to return this for answer, [...]hat though they are ready to be spent in their Masters service, and to refuse no [...]ffering so they may fulfill their Ministery with joy; yet perceiving the persecution to be personall, by the practice of your Party upon the Ministers of Christ in England and Ireland and in the Kingdom of Scotland, since your unjust invasion thereof: And finding nothing exprest in yours wherupon to build any security for their Persons while they are there, and for their return hither, they are resolved to reserve themselves for better times, and to wait upon Him, who hath hidden his face for a while from the Sonnes of Jacob. This is all I have to say, but that I am,

Sir,

Your most humble servant W: Dundas.

9. Septem. 1650.

For the Honourable the Governour of the Castle of Edinburgh.

SIR, the kindnesse offered to the Ministers with you, was done with ingenuitie, thinking it might have met with the like; but I am satisfied to tell those with you, That if their Masters service (as they call it) were chiefly in their eye, imagination of suffering would not have caused such a return, much lesse the practice by our Party (as they are pleased to say) upon the Ministers of Christ in England, have been an argument of Personall persecution. The Ministers in England are supported, and have liberty to preach the Gospel, though not to rail, nor under pretence thereof to overtop the Civill Power, or debase it as they please. No man hath been troubled in England or Ireland for preaching the Gospel, nor has any Minister been molested in Scotland since the comming of the Army hither: the speaking the Truth becomes the Ministers of [Page] Christ, when Ministers pretend to a glorious Reformation, and lay the foundation thereof in getting to themselves worldly Power, and can make worldly mixtures to accomplish the same, such as their late agreement with their King, and hopes by him to carry on their Design, may know, that the Sion promised and hoped for, will not be built with such untempered Morter; As for the unjust Invasion they mention, time was when an Army of Scotland came into England, not called by the Supream Authoritie. We have said in our Papers with what hearts, and upon what accompt we came, and the Lord hath heard us, though you would not, upon as solemn an Appeal as any experience can parallell. And although they seem to comfort themselves with being the sonnes of Jacob, from whom (they say) God hath hid his face for a time, yet its no wonder when the Lord hath lifted up his hand so eminently against a Family, as he hath done so often against this, and men will not see his hand: if the Lord hide his face from such, putting them to shame, both for it, and their hatred at his People, as it is this day. When they purely trust to the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, which is powerfull to bring down strong Holds, and every imagination that exalts it self, which alone is able to square and fit the stones for the new Jerusalem: then, and not before, and by that means, and no other, shall Jerusalem (which is to be the praise of the whole earth)▪ the City of the Lord be built, the Sion of the Holy one of Israel, I have nothing to say to you but that I am

Sir,

Your humble servant O. CROMWELL.

Septem. 9. 1650

A Letter from the Governour of Edinburgh Castle, for the Right Honourable the Lord Cromwell, Commander in chief of the English Army.

MY Lord yours I have communicated to these with me whom it concerned, who desire me to return this answer, That their ingenuity in prosecuting the ends of the Covenant, according to their vocation and place, and adhering to their first Principles, is well known; and one of their greatest regreats is, that they have not been met with the like: when Ministers of the Gospel have been imprisoned, deprived of their Benefices, sequestrate, forced to flee from their dwellings, and bitterly threatned for their faithfull declaring the Will of God against the godlesse, and wicked proceedings of men, that it cannot be accounted an imaginary fear of suffering in such as are resolved to follow the like freedom and faithfulnesse, in discharge of their Masters Message: That it savours not of ingenuitie to promise libertie of preaching the Gospel, and to limit the Preachers thereof, that they must not speak against the sinnes and enormities of Civill Powers, since their Commission carryeth them to speak the Word of the Lord unto, and to reprove the sinnes of Persons of all ranks, from the highest to the lowest: That to impose the name of railing upon such [Page] faithfull freedom, was the old practice of Malignants against the Ministers of the Gospel, who laid open to people the wickednesse of their wayes, that they should not be insnared thereby: That their consciences bear them record, and all their hearers do know, that they meddle not with Civill affairs further then to hold forth the rule of Gods Word, by which the straightnes and crookednes of mens actions are made evident. But they are sorry that they have just cause to regreat, that men of meer Civill place and employment, should usurpe the Calling and Employment of the Ministery, to the scandall of the Reformed Kirks, and particularly in Scotland, contrary to the Government and Discipline therein established; to the maintenance whereof you are bound by the Solemn League and Covenant. Thus farre they have thought fit to vindicate the return to the offer in Col. Whalleys latter letter. The other part of yours which concerns the Publike as well as them, they conceive that all hath been answered sufficiently in the Publike Papers of the State and Kirk: onely to that of the successe upon your solemne Appeal they say again what was said to it before, That they have not so learned Christ, as to hang the equity of their Cause upon events, but desire to have their hearts established in the love of the Truth in all the tribulations that befall them. I onely do adde that I am

My Lord,

Your most humble servant W. Dundas.

9. Septem 1650.

For the Governour of Edinburgh Castle.

SIR, Because I am at reasonable good leasure, I cannot let such a grosse mistake and inconsequentiall reasonings passe, without some notice taken of them. And first their Ingenuity in relation to the Covenant, for which they commend themselves, doth no more justifie their want of ingenuitie in answer to Col. Whaleys Christian offer, concerning which my letter charged them with guiltinesse, deficiencie, then their bearing witnesse to themselves of their adhering to their first Principles & ingenuity in prosecuting the ends of the Covenant, justifies them so to have done, meerly because they say so. They must give more leave henceforwards, for Christ will have it so, will they nill they, and they must have patience to have the truth of their doctrines and sayings tryed by the sure touchstone of the word of Gods and if there be a liberty and duty of tryall, there is a liberty of judgment also, for them that may and ought to try▪ which if so, they must give others leave to say and think, that they can appeale to equal judges, who have been the truest fulfillers of the most reall and equitable ends of the Covenant; but if these Gentlemen which do assume to themselves to be the infallible expositors of the Covenant, as they do too much to their Auditories of the Scriptures, counting a different sense and judgment from theirs breach of Covenant & Heresie; no marvel they judge of others so authoritatively and severely: but we have not so learned Christ. We look at Ministers as helper [Page] of, not Lords over the faith of Gods people. I appeal to their consciences, whether any trying their doctrines and dissenting, shall not incurre the censure of Sectary, and what is this but to deny Christians their liberty, and assume the infallible Chair? What doth he, whom we would not be likened unto, do more then this? In the second place it is affirmed that the ministers of the Gospel have been imprisoned, deprived of their Benefices, sequestred, forced to flie from their dwellings, and bitterly threatned for their faithfull declaring the will of God, &c. And that they have been limited that they might not speak against the sins & enormities of the Civill powers, that to impose the name of rayling upon such faithfull freedome, was the old practice of malignants against the Preachers of the Gospel, &c.

If the Civill authority, or that part of it, which continued faithfull to their trust, true to the ends of the Covenant, did in answer to their consciences turne out a Tyrant in a way which the Christians in after times will mention with honour, and all Tyrants in the world look at with feare, and many thousands of Saints in England rejoyce to think of it, and have received from the hand of God a liberty from the fear of like usurpations, and have cast off him, who trod in his Fathers steps, doing mischiefe as farre as he was able, whom you have received like fire into your bosome, of which God will I trust in time make you sensible; if Ministers rayling at the Civill Power, calling them murtherers, and the like, for▪ doing this, have been dealt with as you mention; will this be found a personall persecution? or is sin so because they say so? They that acted this great businesse, have given a reason of their faith in this action, & some here are further ready to do it against all gainsayers. But it will be found that these reprovers do not only make themselves the Judges and Determiners of sin, that so they may reprove; but they also took liberty to stirr up the people to blood and armes, and would have brought a Warre upon England, as hath been upon Scotland, had not God prevented it; and if such severity as hath been expressed towards them be worthy the name of personall persecution, let all uninterested men judge, whether the calling of this practice, rayling, be to be paralleld with the Malignants imputation upon the Ministers, for speaking against the Popish Innovations in the Prelates times, and the Tyrannicall & wicked practice then on foot, let your own consciences minde you. The Roman Emperours in Christs and his Apostles times were usurpers and intruders upon the Jewish State, yet what foot-step have ye either of our blessed Saviours so much as willingnesse to the dividing of an inheritance, or their medling in that kind; This was not practiced by the Church since our Saviours time, till Antichrist assuming the infallible Chair, and all that he called the Church to be under him, practised this authoritatively over civill Governours.

The way to fullfill your Ministrie with joy, is to preach the Gospel, which I [Page] wish some who take pleasure in reproofes at adventure, do not forget too much to doe. 3. You say you have just cause to regreat, that men of civill imployments should usurpe the calling and imployment of the Ministrie, to the scandall of the reformed Kirks, &c.

Are you troubled that Christ is preached? Is preaching so inclusive in your function? Doth it scandalize the reformed Kirks, and Scotland in particular? Is it against the Covenant? Away with the Covenant if this be so; I thought the Covenant and these could have been willing that any should speak good of the name of Christ; if not it is no Covenant of Gods approving, nor the Kirks you mention, in so much the spouse of Christ. Where do you find in the Scripture a ground to warrant such an assertion, That preaching is included in your function, though an approbation from men hath order in it, and may do well, yet he that hath not a better warrant then that, hath none at all. I hope he that ascended up on high may give his gifts to whom he please, and if those gifts be the Seale of mission, be not envious though Eldad and Medad prophesie, you know who bids us cover earnestly the best gifts, but chiefly that we may prophesie, which the Apostle explains there to be a speaking to instruction, and edification and comfort, which the instructed, edified, and comsorted, can best tell the Energie and effect of; if such evidence be, I say again ta [...] he [...]d you envie not for your own sakes, least you be guilty of a greater fault, then [...] ses reproved in Joshua, for envying for his sake. Indeed you erre through the mistake of the Scriptures; approbation is an act of conveniency in [...] of order, not of necessity to give faculty to preach the Gospel. Your pretended fear least error should step in, is like the man that would keep all the wine out of the Countrey, least men should be drunk. It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousie: to deny a man the liberty he hath by nature, upon a supposition he may abuse it, when he doth abuse it judge. It a man speak foolishly, ye suffer him gladly because ye are wise, if erroneously, the truth more appeares, by your conviction, stop such a mans mouth with sound words that cannot be gain [...]aid; if blasphemously, or to the disturbance of the publique Peace, let the Civill Magistrate punish them; if truly, rejoyce in the truth, and if you will call our speakings together since we came into Scotland, to provoke one another to love and to good works, to faith in our Lord Jesus Christ; and repentance from dead works, to charity and love towards you, to pray and mourn for you, and for the bitter returns to, and incredulity of our professions of love to you of the truth, of which we have made our solemn and humble Appeals to the Lord our God, which he hath heard; and then witnesse to, if these things be scandalous to the Kirk, and against the Covenant, because done by men of civill callings, we rejoyce in them, notwithstanding what you say.

For a Conclusion in answer to the witnesse of God upon our solemn Appeal, [Page] you say, you have not so learned Christ to hang the equity of your Cause upon events; We could wish blindnesse bath not been upon your eyes to all those marvellous dispensations which God hath wrought lately in England. But did not you solemnly Appeal and Pray? did not we do so too? and ought not you and we to think with fear and trembling, of the Hand of the great God in these mighty and strange appearances of his? but can steightly call it an Event; Were not both yours and our expectations renewed from time to time, whilest we waited upon God, to see which way he would manifest himselfe upon our Appeals? And shall we after all these our Prayers, Fastings, Tears, expectations, and solemn Appeals, call these bare Events? The Lord pitie you, surely we fear, because it hath been a mercifull and gracious deliverance to us: I beseech yo [...] in the Bowels of Christ, search after the minde of the Lord in it towards you, and we shall help you by our prayers, that you may finde it out; for ye [...] (if we know our hearts at all) our Bowels do in Christ Jesus earn after the godly in Scotland. We know there are stumbling-blocks which hinder you; The Personall prejudices you have taken up against us and our wayes, wherein we cannot but think some occasion has been given, and for which we mourn; the apprehension you have, that we have hindered the glorious Reformation, you think you were upon: I am perswaded these and such like binde you up, from an understanding, and yeelding to the minde of God, in this great day of his Power and Visitation; and (if I be rightly informed) the late blow you received, is attributed to prophane Councels, and Conduct, and mixtures in your Armie, and such like. The naturall man will not finde out the cause; look up to the Lord that he may tell it you, which that he would do, shall be the fervent prayers of

Your loving friend and servant O: CROMWELL.

Edinburgh, 12. Septem. 1670.

For the Governour of Edinburgh Castle, these.

TH [...]se Queries are sent not to reproach you, but in the love of Christ laying the before you; we being perswaded in the Lord, that there is a Truth in them, which we earnestly desi [...]e may not be laid aside unsought after, by any prejudice either against the things themselves, or the unworthenesse or weaknesse of the person that offers them. If you turn at the Lords reproofs, he will power out his Spirit upon you, and you shall understand his words, and they will guide you to a blessed Reformation indeed, even to one according to the Word, and such as the People of God wait for; wherein you will find us and all Saints ready to rejoyce, and serve you to the utmost in our places and Callings.

1. Whether the Lords Controverse be not both against the Ministers in Scotland and England, for wre [...]ing, straining, and improving the Covenant against the Godly and Saints in England, of the same Faith with then in every Fundamentall, even to bitter perfection, and so making that which in the main intention was Spirituall, to serve politicks and [Page] carnall ends, even in that part especially which was Spirituall, and did look to the glory of God, and the comfort of his people.

2. Whether the Lords Controversie may not be for your and the Ministers in England sullennesse at, and darkning and not beholding the glory of Gods wonderfull dispensations in this Series of his Providences in England, Ireland and Scotland, both now and formerly, through envie at Instruments, and because the things did not work forth your Platforme, and the great God did not come down to your mindes and thoughts.

3 Whether you carrying on a Reformation, so much by you spoken of, have not probably been subject to some mistakes in your own judgments about some parts of the same, laying so much stresse thereupon, as hath been a temptation to you, even to break the law of Love towards your Brethren, and those Christ hath regenerated, even to the reviling and persecuting of them, or to stir up wicked men to do the same, for your Forms sake, or but some parts of it.

4 Whether if your Reformation be so perfect and so spirituall, be indeed the Kingdom of the Lord Jesus, it will need such carnall policies, such fleshly mixtures, such unsincere actings, as to pretend to cry downe all Malignants, and yet receive and set up the Head of them, and so act for the Kingdom of Christ in his Name, and upon advantage there of, and to publish so false a Paper, so full of specious pretences to piety, as the fruit and effect of his repentance, to deceive the mindes of all the godly in England, Ireland, and Scotland; you in your own consciences knowing with what regreat he did it, and with what importunities and threats he was brought to do it, and how much to this very day he is against it: and whether this be not a high provocation of the Lord in so grossely dissembling with him and his People.

For the right Honourable the Commander in Chief of the English Army.

My Lord, Your Papers I have communicated to these with me whom they concerned, who have desired me to return this answer. The Contents of these Papers do concern the publick differences betwixt you and those of the three Kingdomes, who have faithfully adhered to the Solemn League and Covenant, and are awed by the oath of God from accession to the guiltinesse of clear and evident breaches of Covenant, and have been so often and fully answered in the publick Papers of this Kirk and Kingdom, In the resolutions of the Assembly of Divines in England, and in the published Writings of the soundest Divines there; yea and of all the reformed Kirks, That they conceive it needlesse (though a matter of no great difficulty) to give a particular answer; especially since the late Generall Assembly have authorized their Commissioners to take into consideration matters of publick concernment to this Kirk, unto whom if you please you may hereafter direct Papers of that kind. In the mean time they rest fully perswaded in their minds, that the event of a battel (though ordered by a just and wise providence) is no infallible proof of the equity or iniquity of a Cause, seeing there is one event to the righteous and to the wicked, to him that sweareth and to him that feareth an oath, as it is clear in the cause of Israel against Benjamin, about the men of Gibeah. I am

My Lord,

Your most humble servant, W. Dundas.

12. Septem. 1650.

Information about this book

Title statement

Severall letters and passages between His Excellency, the Lord Generall Cromwell, and William Dundas, governour of Edinburgh Castle, and the ministers therein, since His Excellencies entrance into Edinburgh whereunto are annexed some quaeries that were then sent to the said governour and ministers.

Cromwell, Oliver, 1599-1658.

Edition statement

1650

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Text Creation Partnership,

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Date

2007-10 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1).

ID [DLPS]

A35111

ID [STC]

Wing C7167

ID [STC]

ESTC R18846

ID [EEBO-CITATION]

08496053

ID [OCLC]

ocm 08496053

ID [VID]

41420

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(EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A35111)

Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 41420)

Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1253:28)

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— Severall letters and passages between His Excellency, the Lord Generall Cromwell, and William Dundas, governour of Edinburgh Castle, and the ministers therein, since His Excellencies entrance into Edinburgh whereunto are annexed some quaeries that were then sent to the said governour and ministers., Cromwell, Oliver, 1599-1658., Dundas, William, 17th cent..

Extent

8 p.

Printed and sold by T. Broad,. York :: 1650.. (Reproduction of original in the Huntington Library.)

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