I. Question: Why are you a Catholic? The answer follows. II. Question: But why are you a Protestant? An answer attempted (in vain) / written by the Reverend Father S.C. Monk of the Holy Order of St. Benedict ...

I. Question: Why are you a Catholic? The answer follows. II. Question: But why are you a Protestant? An answer attempted (in vain) / written by the Reverend Father S.C. Monk of the Holy Order of St. Benedict ...

Table of contents

Title page

✚ TO THE Christian Reader.

✚ Why are you a CATHOLIC?

§. 1.

§. 2.

§. 3.

§. 4.

§. 5.

§. 6.

§. 7.

§. 8.

§. 9.

§. 10.

§. 11.

§ 12.

§. 13.

§. 14.

§. 15.

§. 16.

§. 17.

§. 18.

§. 19.

§. 20.

§. 21.

§. 22.

§. 23.

§. 24.

§. 25.

§. 26.

§. 27.

§. 28.

§. 29.

§. 30.

§. 31.

§. 32.

§, 33.

§. 34.

§. 35.

§. 36.

§. 37.

§. 38.

§. 39.

§. 40.

§. 41.

✚ ¶ TESTIMONIES of HOLY FATHERS regarding The Substance of the foregoing DISCOURSE.

§. 1. Of the Churches prepetual Existence. Visibility, &c.

§. 2. Of the Catholic Churches Unity: and of Schism. §. 43.

§. 3. Of the Catholic Churches Authority. Of interpreting Scripture.

THE SECOND QUESTION: BUT, WHY ARE YOU A PROTESTANT?

§. 45

§. 46.

§. 47.

§. 48.

§. 49.

§. 50.

§. 51.

§. 52.

§. 53.

§. 54.

§. 55.

§. 56.

§. 57.

§. 58.

§. 60.

§. 61.

§. 62.

§. 63.

§. 64. 3. Of the Popes Temporal Authority and Iurisdiction.

§. 65.

§. 66.

4. Of the Real Presence and Transubstantiation. §. 67.

§. 68.

§. 69.

§. 70.

§, 71.

5. Of Adoration of Christ in the Holy Eucharist. §. 72.

§. 73.

6. Of the Sacrifice and Oblation of Christs Body on the Altar. §. 74.

§. 75.

7. Of Communion under One Species. §. 76.

§. 77.

8. Of Sacramental Confession, Pennance and Satisfaction. §. 78.

§. 79.

§. 80.

9. Of Indulgences. §. 81.

§. 82.

§. 83.

§. 84.

§. 85.

10. Of Iustification, and Merit of Good Works. §. 86.

§. 87.

§. 97.

§. 89.

§. 90.

11. Of Invocation of Saints. §. 91.

§. 92.

12. Of Veneration of Images and Relics of Saints. §. 93.

§. 94.

§. 94.

§. 95.

§. 97.

§. 98.

13. Of Prayer for the Dead, and Purgatory. §. 99.

§. 100.

§. 101.

§. 102.

§. 103.

14. Of Celibacy of Priests. §. 104.

15. Of abstinence from flesh enjoyned in Fasting. §. 105.

§. 106.

§. 107.

§. 108.

§. 109.

§. 110.

§. 111.

§. 112.

§. 114.

§. 115.

§. 116.

FINIS.

§

§

[Page]

✚ I. Question. WHY ARE YOU A CATHOLIC? The ANSWER follows.

II. Question. BUT WHY ARE YOU A PROTESTANT? An ANSWER Attempted (in vain.)

1 Pet. 3. 15. Be ready always to give an Answer to every man that asketh you a Reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and reverence.

Writen by the Reverend Father S. C. Monk of the Holy Order of St. Benedict, and of the English Congregation.

LONDON, Printed in the Year, MDCLXXXVI.

✚ TO THE Christian Reader.

[Page]

[Page]

IT was in Obedience to the desire of an Honourable Friend that this following Discourse was written; that it was confined to such narrow lounds; and that it is now Published. He thought it requisite that such Catholics as are not at leasure to read Volums of Controversies, should be instructed how to give a rational Account to Modern Sectaries, why they are Catholics? and he thought also that to justifie such their Profession, a long Discourse would not be necessary. This occasioned the following Answer to the Question proposed in the Title: which Answer, if rational and satisfactory, will prevent or rather determine, all other particular Questions about Religion, the debating of which furnishes the world with Books to fill great Libraries. But what fate soever shall befal this Answer in the esteem of Readers, certain it is that the method of it is unquestionably useful, by which is shewed that the Controversie about the Church is first of all to be seriously debated: because what Party soever shall be able to give convincing Proofs that their Church is the same, or a true Member of the same Church which we believe in the Creed, shall thereby evince that all accusations laid against her are false and groundless, and all separation from her damnable. And on the other side it will be to no purpose to examine the Tenets of a Church already prejudged to be a false Church, that is, to want the inseparable Marks of a true Church, signifyed by these words in our Creeds, One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, denoting Unity of Faith, Sanctity of Discipline, Universality and uninterrupted Succession of Teachers and Governors from the Apostles, to be necessary Signs of a true Church.

Now for as much as regards the following Discourse, if any one shall think fit to undertake a Reply to it; he may please to take notice, that (unless he intend to make quarrels useless and endless) the only proper Reply will be his Answer to another like Question, which he may suppose to be proposed to him by a Catholic, viz. How can a Protestant think himself safe in a Congregation which never was incorporated in any Church whatsoever existent before the (pretended) Reformation? This Question, if seriously and rationally resolved, and especially if the Resolution of it be justifyed by Authorities of (by us all approved) Antient Catholic Doctors, it will then only be esteemed of considerable force against this following Answer to the Question, Why are you a Catholic?

Now in this renewed Impression, the Author thought expedient that such a Second Question should be proposed, as by a Catholic to a Protestant, demanding reciprocally of him, Why are you a Protestant? To which Question an Answer is framed, the most suitable to Protestants grounds, that the Author could devise.

[Page]He is not ignorant that this fashion of writing Controversies Dialoguewise is oft obnoxious to exceptions, and not unjust suspicions of partiality and prevarication: For indeed we sometimes see Dialogues, in which the Authors (who may make their pretended Adversaries, to speak as they themselves please) do put foolish Answers into their mouths, and then laugh at them: presuming thereby to have gained a Victory.

But such a poor shift as this the Author protests against. The allegations against the Roman Church brought in by the Protestant, are, in the Authors opinion, the most considerable that are to be found among Protestant Controvertists, which allegations he is permitted also to deliver in a Stile, for its sharpness, becoming a Protestant now a la Mode. True it is, the Author could not possibly make him answer pertinently and directly to the Question. But whose fault is that? No such Answer, with tolerable satisfaction, as far as the Author could inform himself, could be found in rerum natura.

Now if any Protestant Reader shall dislike the Author's introducing his Protestant sometimes relenting, or convinced that some Catholic Doctrines are too oft falsly and maliciously represented by Adversaries, the Authours excuse must be, that he having according to his conscience demonstrated so much, his duty was to shew his Adversary a rational, honest man, that is, such a one as will be satisfyed with reason: and indeed with no other is he willing to treat.

However, if this do not content the Reader, he may do well to frame a better Protestant Answer to the general Question [Why are you a Protestant?] But except such his Answer be indeed precisely pertinent, and proper to the clearing his Church from the Charge of Schism, either by shewing that she is indeed a true Member, incorporated into the Body of the Catholic Church, believed in our Common Creed; Or that she is innocent, and not chargeable with Schism, though she be not, yea abhors to be, so incorporated; he would do much better to save his labour. No other Answer can be pertinent: No excursions into Invectives against any other Church, or Churches, will be at all to the purpose. Except therefore the pretended Answer be qualifyed as hath been said, he must give the present Author leave to protest against it, as no Answer at all; notwithstanding which Protestation the Protestant may, and probably will, take leave to think and proclaim it unanswerable.

Now the rather to invite him to undertake such a just, though unusual, and hitherto unpractised a Task, the Author does here freely acknowledg, that was a principal end of his Writing and Publishing this Discourse: for the truth is, the World has been too long, and too much, abused with impertinencies and malicious Buffo [...]ries, to the perverting of Souls, encrease of Atheism, and shame of our Nation.

Another considerable Motive also of composing this short Discourse, was a desire in the Author to take occasion to deliver briefly the Catholic Church's Doctrines, as they are in themselves, and freed from the curious fancies of School-men, and misprision of Sectaries, to the Glory of God, and the good of Souls

✚ Why are you a CATHOLIC?

[Page]

A DIALOGUE BETWEEN A PROTESTANT AND A CATHOLIC.

§. 1.

Protestant.

WHY are you a Catholic?

Catholic.

Because I am a Christian, and by the Rule of Christian Faith (the Apostles Creed) am obliged to believe the holy Catholic Church.

Prot.

Did not you believe that Article before you was a Catholic?

Cath.

I thought indeed at that time that I had believed it; but I have found since that I only thought so.

Prot.

It seems then, you do not think that I believe this Article, as well as you.

Cath.

I am sure that by vertue of this Article you are not obliged to be a Protestant.

§. 2.

Prot.

Perhaps we do not agree in the sence of this Article.

Cath.

It may well be so: therefore for a tryal give me leave to propose a few Questions to you.

Prot.

Ask what you please.

Cath.

First then, when you say you believe the holy Catholic Church, do you not believe this Church to be one Body, as St. Paul expresly [Page] teaches, saying, There is one Body, one Spirit, as there is one Hope of our calling, one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism, one God and Father of all, &c. Ephes. 4. 4. 5. 6. and as we profess in the following Creeds of the Church.

Prot.

Yes, I believe the true Catholic Church of Christ to be one Body.

§. 3.

And do you not further believe, that this Church of Christ shall continue one Body till the end of the world?

Prot.

Yes doubtless; for otherwise the time might come, in which this Article of our Faith should be false: and also Christ's promise [That the Gates of Hell should never prevail against his Church] should fail.

§. 4.

Cath.

In professing such a Belief of this Article, do you not also intend thereby to acknowledg your self a Member of this one Catholic Church?

Prot.

Yes, without doubt.

Cath.

You cannot surely think it a matter indifferent whether you be a Member of this one Church, or not?

Prot.

No, by no means: On the contrary I acknowledg, that whosoever is separated from this one Church of Christ, and dies in that separation, cannot be saved.

§. 5.

Cath.

Thus far then we both agree. Let us further, if you please, consider, what a Church in general is, I mean a Christian Church?

Prot.

I conceive it to be a Society of Men and Women publicly professing that Religion which they believe to have been taught by Christ.

§. 6.

Cath.

But every Society thus professing, is it thereby the same Church which we are taught to believe in the Creed?

Prot.

It is at least a part of that Church.

Cath.

Are then Societies of Heretics and Schismatics part of that one Church, since they also profess the Religion which they believe to have been taught by Christ?

Prot.

No: For they cut themselves off from this one Church, either by inventing New and false Doctrines, which renders them Heretics, that is, Chusers of a new Faith: Or by disobeying the Lawful Commands of this one Church, which renders them Schismatics, that is, Rebels.

§. 7.

Cath.

Can any Society be called one Body, or Corporation, unless it be united by common received Laws and Governors?

Prot.

I now begin to perceive whither you would lead me, Therefore [Page] I must advise well lest I engage my self too far by an hasty answer to this Question.

Cath.

Sir it is not Victory, but truth we now regard. Therefore speak not of being engaged, but freely recal any Answer you have, or shall give, if you find cause. And as for the present Question, consider well what that is which makes a Society, as a Kingdom, a Province, an Army, a City, a Corporation to become one Body. Is it not an Obligation imposed on those who live respectively in any of these, to be subject to the peculiar Government and Laws there established? This appears plainly, in that wheresoever any one obstinately refuses such submission, he is esteemed and treated as a Rebel, a Fugitive, an outlawed person, and utterly deprived of all Priviledges and emoluments belonging to the said Body.

Prot.

This cannot be denyed.

Cath.

Apply this then to God's Church. St. Paul says expresly, it is one Body: your Creed obliges you to call it One: The Scripture compares it to a City at Unity in it self: and to a well ordered Army with Banners, under which all Soldiers are reduced in their ranks, expecting the Generals command, signifyed by subordinate officers. Such a society is Gods Church: It is the Kingdom of Christ, which if once divided cannot stand. But by his promise it (and no other Kingdom besides it) shall stand for ever; and therefore it shall never be Divided, but all its members shall continue in their order. Now what makes such Order; but obedience to Government and Laws? Can you Imagine any other, excluding this?

Prot.

I must confess, I cannot, For it is plain, that where every one will be a Law to himself, there can be no Order nor Unity, nothing but confusion and endless Divisions.

Cath.

Hence it follows then, that the Church must necessarily consist of Teachers and Disciples, of Governors and Subjects.

Prot.

That is granted.

Cath.

And consequently, that it is a Visible Society.

Prot.

True: for otherwise none will be able to know whom, or what, to obey: No Society can be invisible to the members of it: and it is not a Society, if the Governors or Teachers in it be invisible, and the Laws unknown.

§. 8.

Cath.

By whom have these Teachers and Governors been appointed in the Church?

[Page]Prot.

St. Paul informs us, Epes. 4. 11. 12. 13. saying, Christ gave some Apostles, and some Prophets, and some Evangelists, and some Pastors and Teachers, for the perfecting of the Saints, for the work of the Ministery, for the edifying of the Body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the Faith and of the knowledg of the Son of God unto a perfect man, &c. So also we read in the Epistle to the Hebrews, No man taketh this honour to himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. Heb. 5. 4.

§. 9.

Cath.

This being so, are not they who are Disciples in Gods Church, obliged in conscience to believe their Teachers, and Subjects to obey their Governors?

Prot.

Yes, without doubt: But yet with this condition, that these Teachers teach truth, and these Governors command lawful things.

Cath.

But is every Subject to be a Iudg whether the Doctrine taught him be true, and the thing commanded lawful?

Prot.

The Scripture is to be Judg between them.

Cath.

Indeed that which you say would be to some purpose, if the Scripture could speak and answer the Readers Questions and Doubts, as we two can do to one another. But the Scripture being only a Writing, and by consequence incapable of interpreting its own meaning whensoever any doubt of its true sence arises, if it may be permitted to every Christian to judg of his Teachers Doctrines by examining them by Scripture, the Church may as well be without Teachers.

§. 10.

Prot.

I know no remedy: For since it is evident to us, that there is on Earth no visible infallible Guide and Interpreter of Scripture, we cannot rely upon any Man, or any Society of Men, so as to remain secure that they will not mislead us, either out of ignorance or secular interests. Therefore we must leave to all Christians a judgment of diseretion, to discern by the Light of Gods word, whether their Teachers guide them in the way of Truth, or not. Every one must take the best course he can, not to fall into any dangerous Error. And since Eternity depends upon it, it is not likely that men will wilfully misinterpret Scripture, to their own destruction; especially in Points Fundamental, which are so clearly set down in Scripture, that no sober Enquirer can be mistaken in them.

Cath.

Well, Sir, I have at present done asking Questions, and now (better enabled by what you have said) will endeavor to give you a fuller Answer to the Question you proposed in the begining, viz. ‘Why are you a Catholick?’

[Page]

§. 11.

First then, Sir, I am a Catholick because I believe that Christ the Author and Finisher of our Faith is infinitely both good, wise and omnipotent. His goodness inclined him to come down into this world to save mankind, by establishing a Church upon earth, which should remain till the end of the world, and in which the way to Heaven should be so taught, as not only the Wise and Learned, but the Poor, Simple and Ignorant also should by Faith and Obedience be made partakers of Eternal Happiness. Now his goodness having designed this; his wisdom enabled him to appoint ways and means proper to effect that his blessed Design; and omnipotence, to make those means successful.

§ 12.

The general efficacious means to accomplish this, are first, The revealing his whole will to his Church; which we acknowledg to be sufficiently done in Holy Scripture, as to all points absolutely necessary to Salvation, though in all those points not so clearly to every one, that without a Teacher their sense may not be mistaken: Neither doth Scripture make an express discernment of what points are necessary. And secondly, The assisting of this his Church with fidelity and a constant performance of her duty in declaring all necessary Divine Truth manifested to her, to her Subjects; with a command, that all Christians should obey and submit to what she shall teach or enjoyn them.

God having thus revealed his whole Will to his one Catholic Church, it necessarily and evidently follows. 1. That Ignorance, or Error, in any Points of Christian Doctrine necessary to Salvation, is damnable. 2. That a Seperation from this one Church is damnable also, upon what pretence soever the separation be made.

§. 13.

Now to avoid eternal Misery thus threatned by Error or Schism, only one of these two ways is possible. 1. By ones own light to penetrate into all Mysteries, so as to be most firmly assured of a right understanding of all necessary verities revealed by God in Holy Scriptures. 2. Or out of a distrust of our own abilities to submit our Reason and internal Assent to Authority. The former of these ways, all Sects divided from the Roman Church, and among themselves, do uniformly take, being forced hereto by denying any visible Society of men to have any authority obliging the Consciences of their Subjects: and by conseqence they have all, if any, an equal Title (that is indeed equally none at all) to challenge belief, one as well as another: neither can they rationally, without deserting their common Ground, condemn, [Page] or excommunicate one another. The latter way we Catholics only take, and, as we think, prudently and surely.

§. 14.

For Sir, I beseech you to consider what a busy, laborious task you have undertaken by being a Protestant, of what Sect among them soever you are. Before you can promise to your self any rest of mind in the Peculiar Fundamental Doctrines of your Sect, your Conscience must satisfy you that you have not embraced a Religion by hazard, but after a diligent, sincere and effectual examination of all the Reasons and arguments, not only of Catholicks submitting to Authority, but also of other Sectaries, who proceeding your way of interpreting Scripture by a private light, do condemn your Doctrines; or whose Doctrines you condemn. To be able to do all this, how many Volums of Controversy are you obliged to read and examine? Besides this, it will be absolutely necessary that you be perfectly studyed in all the Books of Scripture, with the best Commentaries on them, both Ancient and Modern since you ground your Religion upon a sense of Scripture, which perhaps not any of them will allow, and then in equity you are to examine their reasons for it. Now what one mans age will suffice for all this business, though but in one or two Points controverted, and though the party were learned, and had never so much leasure? What then shall ignorant persons do, who yet make up the greatest number of Christians? What shall Trades-men and Day-Labourers do? who can scarce allow from their necessary Vocations any time at all dayly, even to say their Prayers? yet it concerns all these, upon the venture of Eternal Happiness or Misery, not to forsake or embrace a Religion without a sufficient Examination made by themselves of the grounds of it, since they are told, and believe it, that they must trust to themselves only because no external Authority upon Earth can require from them a submission of their judgment, inasmuch, as according to their general fundamental Positions, no Authority is infallible.

§. 15.

Now whereas you said, That all Fundamental Doctrines of Christianity are so clearly set down in Scripture, that no sober Enquirer can be mistaken in them: If this were true, yet since neither the Scripture, nor you your selves, do clearly express which and how many Doctrines are fundamental, every tittle of Scriptures must be read and examined by every one of you, for fear a necessary Doctrine should chance to escape you. But to demonstrate the groundlesness of that [Page] your Assertion, I desire you to reflect on the prodigious multiplicity of Sects swarming in this age, all which ground their Belief upon pretended clear Texts of Scripture alone: you will then scarce find one Article of Christian Faith exempted from their Disputes. There are not wanting who deny the Mistery of the Holy Trinity, the Divinity and Incarnation of our Lord, the Divine Personality of the Holy Ghost. Some absolutely deny Freewill, whilst others exalt the power of it so high, as to affirm Divine Grace unnecessary to its best Operations. Some affirm our Nature to be so incurably polluted by Original Sin as that all the best actions of the Regenerate are Mortal Sins; Others will acknowledge no Original Sin at all. Some affirm Baptism necessary to Salvation, even of Infants: Others reject Infant-Baptism: and Calvinists assert, that Infants without Baptism are sanctified by their Parents faith: and that some Infants dying, though baptized may be damned. Some believe mans Soul to be mortal, and that it perisheth with the Body, not having any Knowledg or Sentiment after death: Some confine God to a determinate place in Heaven, and also deny his Prescience of future Contingents. Lastly some deny an Eternity of torments in Hell. Surely you will not deny most of these to be contrary to Fundamental Doctrines of our Faith: yet all who maintain these Tenets, and all Sectaries who contradict them, do ground themselves upon express Scripture, which to you seems so clear. You cannot be more confident that you have light on the true sence of Scripture, than they of a contrary sense, and only self-love and selfe-esteem determine both the one and the other.

Can it then be prudence in any man to hazard Eternity upon his own sence of Scripture, the half of which perhaps he never read? Commonly a Text or two concludes every point controverted, when perhaps there are twenty Texts, unconsidered by the Person, which would rectify the sence he gave to the former? Is that Guide to be trusted, which has seduced such infinite Multitudes, opposing, calumniating, and hating one another? All Mankind may be witness that this Private Light hath hitherto never been able to confute or undecieve one Sect. In a word, is it not in effect an injurious blaspheming of the Goodness, Wisdom and Omnipotence of God to affirm that he has obliged under penalty of damnation all Christians to unity of Faith in all necessary Doctrines; and also that he hath promised to conserve his Church in this Unity to the end of the world: and on the [Page] other side to affirm withal, that the only Means appointed by him to produce this Unity should be a certain Means of destroying Unity, and which, if made use of by all Christians, the gates of Hell would be too strong for him, so that there would scarce be left a Church upon earth.

§. 16.

Truly, Sir, I do not know through what Spectacles you look upon this principle of Protestancy, which hath been indeed the constant Principle of all Ancient-Herities. But to me it appears most horribly gastly, and only fit to be acknowledged the invention of Lucifer, the foul Spirit of Pride and contention, who presents to unwary Christians once more this fruit of the Tree of the knowledg of good and evil, to be aspired to by our own endeavors, and contrary to Gods appointment.

Since therefore (as hath been said) there are but those two ways to arrive at the knowleg of Divine Mysteries contained in Scripture (yet so contained as that the Texts in which they are contained are subject to be miss-understood) viz. First, A man's own private Reason: And Secondly, Authority of Superiors by Gods appointment placed in his Church: All the Reason▪ I have enforces me to chuse this latter way, because thereby I shall avoid inconstancy, otherwise unavoidable: as I am taught by St. Paul, who sayes, Eph. 4. 11, 12, &c. That therefore God placed in his Church Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers for the edification of the Body of Christ: a Succession of which is to last till we all meet in the Unity of Faith, &c. This Almighty God did, says he, To the end we should not be like children, wavering, and carried about with every wind of Doctrine, through the wickedness of men, and cunning of such as would circumvent us with errour: the only remedy whereof, in the Apostles judgment, is, submission to Authority. To which submission also I am obliged by an express command of God [Obedite praepositis vestris, &c.] Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that are set over you, and submit your selves, for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account—And Reason thus divinely enlightned, obliging me to submit to Authority, I should renounce the same Reason utterly, if I should not prefer that Society which (by an evident Succession from the foresaid Apostles and Pastors) makes the best claim thereto; yea, which alone claims an Authority obliging the Conscience, and that is the Catholics Church; the Authority whereof is evidently the greatest in the world. For though all divided Sects preume to contend with her for Truth of Doctrines, challenging that to [Page] themselves; yet there is not any one of them which dares assume to themselves that eminence of Authority which manifestly appears in her. And you may know this Catholio Church from others, because it only challengeth an universal and absolute, not conditional Obedience; and you may know the Sons of it by their professing to give to the Churches Authority such Obedience.

§. 17.

Now, Sir, consider how agreeable to Gods goodness and wisdom, how suitable to humane capacities, how helpful to mens necessities is this way of grounding our Faith on Gods Word as interpreted by the Catholic Church. The far greatest part of Christians are too weak to maintain Disputes: yet God loves the Poor and Ignorant, at least, as well as he does the Rich and Learned; and takes care to bring them to Happiness without Learning, sharpness of wit, curiosity, and study of knowledg. Consequently he has chalked out a way to Heaven, in which the Ignorant and Simple may walk securely: And in what other way can these walk, but in that of obedience to Authority? This doubtless is that way foretold by the Prophet, Isa. 35. 8. saying in Christs Kingdom, There shall be a high way—and it shall be called a holy way. No polluted person shall pass through it. This shall be [to Christians] a streight way, so that Fools shall not err in it.

Now have Sectaries found out this streight way in which Fools cannot err? Sectaries, I say, who have framed a confused Labyrinth, in which there are a thousand cross paths and windings, where every one wanders, as it were, with a dark Lanthorn in his hand, and either stumbles into, or phantastically chuses such a path as at the present pleases him best, and leaves it also when he thinks good, not taking direction from any other, or not much caring for such directions. By this means we see how that not only Fools and Ignorant, but even the most Judicious amongst Sectaries, following their own light, do walk all their lives, in quite contrary ways, yet all believing that God by the Scripture directs them.

§. 18.

Manifest therefore it is, that Gods way being only one holy, streight High-way, not any Sectaries, but all and only Catholics have been by Almighty God brought into it: In as much as they, distrusting the dim Light of their own Reason for discerning the Verities of Faith contested, borrow the Churches Light: thus exercising Christian Humility, in not presuming upon their own Abilities; and Christian Obedience, in submitting to the Guidance of those Teachers and Governors [Page] whom God hath placed over them, and who are to give an account of their souls, These Heavenly Virtues are, and have always been equally practised by both Ignorant Catholics out of necessity, and by the most Learned out of Duty: Yea, those glorious Lights of Gods Church, the holy Fathers and ancient Doctors, though they were Fathers and Doctors to others, yet to the Church herself they were humble Children and Disciples, learning only from her, and teaching others only what they had learnt from her. This surely is a streight High-way, and a Holy way too: and whil'st the most Simple among Catholicks walk in this way, they have an incomparable advantage in light above the most Learned of those which trust to their private light. For they are guided by all the lights; that is, by the whole Body of those which God hath constituted Teachers in his Church in all ages; and by consequence they are exempted from an Obligation of examining particular Controversies, which their Teachers duty is to examine for them.

§. 19.

Neither is it natural Reason alone which directs us to perfer so eminent Authority before our own simple judgments, but (as hath been said) a Divine Light also appearing in Scripture, and in constant Ecclesiastical Tradition, the best and safest Interpreter of Scripture. There we find the Church called, The Pillar and Ground of truth; a City at one in it self, and set upon a Hill which cannot be 1 Tim. 3. 15 Psal. 122. 3. hid. There we read, That every Tongue which shall rise against her in Iudgment, she shall condemn: that Gentiles Matt. 5. 14. shall come to her light, and Kings to the brightness of her Isa. 54. Rising: And that the nation and Kingdom which will not serve her, shall perish. There we shall find, that the least Supream Tribunal on earth to determine Controversies amongst Christians is the Church, whom whosoever will not hear, is to be esteemed as a Heathen and a Publican; such an unappealeable AuthorityMat. 18. 17. has God established in this Church. And by vertue of this Authority, General Councils representing the whole Body of Church Governors; challenge from all Christians a submission, not only of Non-contradiction, but also of internal Assent, under Penalty of Anathema; which assent we willingly and joyfully yield by vertue of Christs promises, That he will lead his Church into all Truth, Jo. 16. 13. and so preserve her in an uniform Profession of Truth, that the Gates of Hell shall never be able to prevail against her; Mat. 16. 18. which Gates [Page] of Hell are by the interpretations of the Fathers, Heresies.

§. 20.

These irrefragable grounds from Prudence and Scripture have we Catholics for directing our Faith: On the other side, not one single Text of Scripture, nay moreover, not one quotation can be produced out of any one of the holy Fathers, which may rationally incourage a Christian to prefer his own sence of Scripture before that of the Church; whereas whole Books have been written by them of the Churches unity, authority, indefectibility and universality. Now Sir, who can resist, who can hold out against such a Battery?

Prot.

Well Sir, how prevalent soever this Discourse may seem to you to be against us, whom you style Schismatics, it will prove of little advantage to you Roman Catholics; for although we grant, that there is but one Catholic Church, out of which there is no Salvation, yet this does not prove the Roman to be this Church: the Roman, I say, which is but a particular Church, and she being (as we are perswaded) guilty of teaching and practising many false Doctrines, and manifold Superstitions and Idolatry, we cannot with a safe conscience have any communion with her.

§. 21.

Cath.

Sir, this is the ordinary artifice of your Protestant Writers, when they are pressed with the guilt of those unpardonable crimes of (Heresie and) Schism, to impute to the Church many Errors and sinful Practices, in which, foresooth, their tender consciences dare not joyn. This they do, to the end they may be dispenced withal from clearing themselves from Schism, till after a full discussion of all other Controversies touching differences about any particular Errors supposed to be in the Church; which discussion cannot be undertaken by one in a thousand, considering mens general incapacity; and if undertaken by the Learned, would scarce ever have an end.

But this is most unreasonable, because though it were true, that the Church from which they separated were indeed guilty of teaching Errors, yet are Protestants justly and unanswerably charged with Schism in a high degree, in as much as they remain divided, not from the Roman only, but all Patriarchal and all other Churches existent before their Separation: So that if there be such a Crime as Schism, they are manifestly guilty of it: and by consequence it would be damnable in any one to joyn in their Communion. To make this charge good against them, it will be fully sufficient to alledg the confession of all Christians, (and of themselves (also [Page] viz. That there always has been, is, and shall ever remain Calvin. Instit. a Holy Catholic Church of Christ on Earth, from which lib. 4. cap. 1. Separation, upon any pretence whatsoever, is damnable. This Church therefore (wheresoever it is) was in being when they divided from the Roman; and can they pretend that they are Members of this Church? There is not a Society in the world older than theirs, or other than the Roman Church, with which they entertain any communion at all, to whose consession of Faith they will subscribe, and to whose Laws and Government they will submit, but on the contrary condemn its Doctrines, Laws and Government. The consciousness of this, forced the principal Patriarch of Schism, Calvin, to profess that himself and his followersCalvin. Epi. separated from the whole world. ad Melanct.

Now it being impossible for Protestants to excuse, much less to justifie their manifest Schism, to what purpose is it to enter into debate with them about particular Points of Doctrine? As long as the charge of Schisin subsists, uncleared by them, and this Schism grounded on pretended dangerous Errors in the Catholic Church, being Schismatics they are Heretics too, and so condemned by themselves and consequently not to be hearkned to, when they would raise particular controversies, since this one general controversie determines against them all particular debates.

§. 22.

Schism

therefore, in its lowest qualification, considered only as disobedience to lawful Ecclesiastical Authority, being, even in the judgment of learned Protestants, a most horrible Sin, a tearing in pieces the Mystical Body of Christ: There are one or two special Aggravations which extreamly heighten the heinousness of it in Protestants, (I mean those Reformers abroad, and antiently in Scotland, Calvinists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anabaptists, &c.) They were once Members of the Roman-Catholic-Church, which they then esteemed to be that Church, which they believed in the Creed. It hapned that their Prime Patriarchs, Luther, Calvin, Zwinglius, &c. having conceived some discontent either against the Governors, or some prevailing party in that Church which obstructed their profits, or against the Laws of it, which restrained their lusts after Women, grew angry, and began to quarrel with the Church her self, and to study to disgrace her, for which purpose the readiest way was to find fault with her Doctrines: Then Pride and revenge inspiring them, against [Page] these they made objections, yet not so oft against the Churche's own Doctrines as the Tenents of particular Catholick Writers, and most oft they directed their most bitter Invectives against personal miscarriages, for all which the Church must be answerable: And after all this publishing Liberty from Laws which restrained Concupiscence, they quickly found Favorites and Followers: thus Sects were first composed. But if there had been in any of them either Humility or Love of Peace, in case they had been perswaded there had been Errors in the Church her self, to which they could not subscribe, they would not thereupon separate themselves from Her, but submit patiently to her Censures, which she should lay upon them. If her Censures were just, they would have no reason to complain; If unjust, God would reward them for their Patience and love of Peace.

§. 23.

They were no sooner separated, but they heaped on the Church all the most despightful reproaches and Calumnies they could invent, and to heighten their Criminal Schism to the uttermost, they formed New Societies which they called Churches, and therein established New Pastors, and a New Ecclesiastical Ministry: (the very Sin for which God commanded the Earth to swallow Core, Dathan and Abiron.) Amongst the Gifts which our Lord when he led captivity captive, received from his Father, and bestowed on his Church, the principal Gift mentioned by St. Paul, was his constituting therein Apostles, Pastors, and Teachers to continue to the end of the world by a legitimate Succession. There is not the least intimation given in Scripture or Tradition, that this Succession should ever be interrupted: Yet as if it had quite ceased and been annulled, these Reformers, without any Warrant, usurp a Power to take all Authority out of the hands of those to whom our Saviour had given it, and to bestow it according to their own pleasure, thus making a total reversement of the whole frame of Gods Church (as far as lyes in their Power) through the whole World. If Christ himself had thus, without testifying his Authority by Miracles, dealt with the Iewish Synagogue, he would not have expected belief, nor been able to answer that Question proposed to Him, By what authority dost thou these things, and who gave thee this Authority? Luke. 20. 2. Yet all this our late Reformers have done without ever pretending to one Miracle. Into whatever place they come through the whole earth, they, as far as their Secular power extends, degrade and chase away all Bishops, Priests and [Page] Pastors, professing the Catholic Religion, they take Authority to defame them as false Pastors, and true Wolves; they denounce Anathemas against them, they incite their Subjects to rebel, defraud and persecute them, as if God had given his iron Rod into the hands of these Gladiators, and conferred on them the ends of the earth for their inheritance.

No man takes his Power of Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction but he that is called, as was Aaron. Heb. 5. 4. Who called these men to the Office of Preaching and governing Christians? Who invested them with such Authority? If we consult their own Stories, we shall find the prime Ministers in the principal Cities of France, constituted and consecrated by hands of the basest sort of Tradesmen. There have not been nor even now are wanting among them several sensual Priests, (once they had a Bishop) Apostates from the Catholic Church, whom they might employ in the Office of Preaching and Praying in their Synagogues, and by that means make a shew, that some of their Ministers were indeed Clergymen, who had an ordinary Vocation. But such hatred they bear to all Ecclesiastical Order, that even these shall not be admitted into the Presbytery without renouncing their former ordinary Vocation, and receiving their Commission, by a New imposition of hands of Lay-Ministers. In a word, I should weary both you and my self, if I should enumerate all the enormities of your first Reformation. If you have a mind, you may receive sufficient information in a late Book written in French, the Title whereof is (in English) Legitimate Prejudgments against Calvinists; in which thePrejugez. con. les Calvinists learned Author demonstrates by several titles, as by what appeared exteriourly in the life of the first Reformers by want of Mission; by the evidence of their being guilty of Schism; by their temerity most prodigious in their presumption to establish a New Ecclesiastical Ministry; by the Spirit of calumny and injustice which generally actuates them; by their peculiar most monstrous Doctrines taught by them; by their ridiculously impossible way of instructing their Disciples in Christian verities, &c. By these Marks I say he shews that they do not deserve to be admitted to an examination of their Pretended Reform'd Religion, being manifestly prejudged and self condemned.

§. 24.

Prot.

But surely, Sir, you will not apply this to the Reformed Church of England, and particularly that charge concerning [Page] the want of Lawful Pastors. We have been far from making a breach in the Chain of Succession, since if there be lawful Pastors in the Roman Church, we have the like in the English, in as much as we received our Ordinations from Rome.

Cath.

For as much as concerns your Ordinations, I will not here enter into any dispute, neither indeed is it needful: But this I may confidently say, That since English Protestants have (especially of late,) by many tokens shewed that they esteem Calvinists, or Presbyterian Congregations to be true, though not so perfect, Members of Christs Church, as themselves; the English Church, I may say justifies, but however, qualifies or excuses that horrible defect in them of want of Ordinations and lawful Mission, and thereby involves her self in their guilt. Again though it were true, that the English Clergy have received their Ordinations from the Roman Catholic Church, yet sure I am, that Church never released them from their Canonical subjection to their Superiors, particularly to their Patriarch and Supream Pastor of Gods Church: She never gave them power to change the order of administring Sacraments; to reverse Ordinances of Superior Councils; to expel Catholic Bishops from their Sees, meerly because they were Catholics; In a word, she never gave them authority to alter, or rather destroy, the whole Religion, in a manner, professed in England since they were first Christians. If English Bishops have received their Character from Rome, yet not Iurisdiction; or if that also, yet certain it is, that the same Church which gave them Iurisdiction, can also upon their demerits, and exercising it contrary to her intention, suspend the administration of it; which suspension is no doubt implyed in her condemnation of all their Innovations. To be brief, the English Church challenging Ordination by lawful Succession, is thereby obliged to acknowledg the Roman Church, to be at least a true Member of the Catholic Church, (and consequently her self no such Member) unless the Bishops here will confess themselves to be Anti-Catholic Bishops, and yet most unreasonably pretend an Union with the Catholic Church.

§. 25.

Prot.

She does in deed acknowledg the Roman to be a Member, but a corrupt Member of the Catholic Church.

Cath.

Consider, Sir, I pray you, that the Rule of Faith obligeth us to believe the Church of God to be Holy as well as Catholic. Now if the Universal Church be Holy or uncorrupt, then is every Member of [Page] it, as far as in its Communion, Holy and uncorrupt also. Which Holiness does not regard the persons, whether Governors or Subjects; for in the first and best Church of all, consisting of the Apostles and Disciples of our Lord only, there was a Iudas and a Nicolas: A Church is said to be Holy, when it teaches Truth and Holiness: So is the Universal Church Holy and so is every Member, in its Communion; Since that which makes it a Member in its Communion, is its agreement with the whole in Doctrines taught by it, both regarding Faith and Manners. And from hence it follows, that to ascribe Error and Corruption to any Church which is acknowledged a Member of the Catholic Church, and for such pretended Errors to break off Communion with it, is to do the same to the Universal Church, and consequently to contradict an Article of Faith.

Now that this is the condition of the English-Church, is manifest. For since all Christians are under pain of damnation obliged to live in Communion with the Universal Church, by being obedient to it's Laws and Governors; as also to believe, that this Universal Church, is at this day extant, where can an English Protestant hope to find this Church, if not in the Roman Communion? In the Greek-Church he will find the same Doctrine, which in the Roman he calls dangerous Errours, as, (besides the confession hereof by several Protestant Authors formerly) hath been of late, beyond all gainsaying, evidenced by the indefatigable industry ofSan. Relation pag. 233. Monsieur Arnaud in his two late Replies to Claude a Calvinist Minister, from the Authentick Testimonials and Declarations Roses his View of Religion. pag. 4768. both of several late Synods, and of many Ecclesiastical Persons of eminency, both in the present Greek and other Eastern Churches. And besides these he will find other Doctrins which we all condemn as Heresies. Then for pretended Corruptions in practice, the same practices which he stiles Superstitious and Idolatrous (principally touching the Blessed Sacrament) he will find in the Greek Church far more distastful to him. And as for other Eastern Sects, besides the same Practises, he will find himself obliged, if in Communion with any of them, to assent to Ancient, Universally condemned Heresies, Nestorianism, Eutychianism, Monothelitism, &c.

§. 26.

Prot.

But no doubt, God hath his Elect Servants among them all, who are truly Orthodox, as we are: with whom we may be said to be united in Spirit.

[Page]Cath.

Truly Sir, this is a meer pittiful dream to talk of Communion in spirit with hidden Christians, to you invisible, as you are also to them. This renders all the Discourses of the Holy Fathers touching the Churches Visibility and Unity utterly impertinent. Yea this evacuates the Predictions of all Gods ancient Prophets, foretelling the Extent, Glory and Victories of the Kingdom of the Messias: and it makes void the Promises of our Saviour touching his Church. What meaning therefore can you frame to your self, when you say, You acknowledg a perpetually existent Catholic Church, and a necessity imposed on all Christians to live in her Communion?

§. 27.

Pr.

We acknowledg our selves in Communion with all Christian Societies, as far as they teach Truth, and practise according to Christs Law.

Cath.

So you may be said to communicate with Iews, Turks and Insidels: for some Truths are taught by all these, and some of their practises are lawful. But is this such a Communion as the Church Catholic anciently, or as the First four General Councils required? It is manifest that at the time of your first Separation there was not one Society of Christians in the world to whose Profession of Faith you would subscribe, in whose Religious Worship you would joyn, and by whose Laws you would be governed: So that all Christians then living and visible in the World, were to you as Heathens and Publicans; and you the very same to them. Were your first Reformers in Communion with them? Certainly you will not say, that the Roman, Grecian, and Oriental Churches, though they will not deny but you teach some Truths and sometimes practise virtues, do live in your Communion, that is, That Persons mutually excommunicating one another, do at the same time live in one Communion, or that Pastors live in Communion with those who renounce Obedience to them, and abhorr the Faith taught by them.

§. 28.

P.

Why, Sir, would you have us allow such a way of Communion, as you seem to understand, to Societies which we firmly believe do teach damnable Errours, and enjoyn Idolatrous or Superstitious Practises?

Cath.

No Sir, by no means. But since there is on earth a visibly holy Catholic Church, placed as a City upon a Hill, with which you must, under pain of damnation, communicate in such a manner as Christians did in the time of the first four General Councils, I adjure you not to rest where you now are, in Schism, from all visible Churches preceding your Separation, but to find Her out; and having found [Page] her out, to depose an overweening conceit of your own abilities to censure and condemn her Doctrines, and with Christian Humility to submit your self entirely to her Guidance, by which means you will be sure to find rest of mind.

§. 29.

Prot.

This seems to me a task too hard to be undertaken.

Cath.

That which makes it seem so hard to you is, perhaps, a secret whisper of Nature and self-love, telling you, that this may expose you to many worldly disadvantages: or if not this, a strong prejudice by education deeply imprinted in your mind against the Roman Church, the condemning and reviling of which is the subject of most Books you read, and of most of the discourses and Sermons you hear. I name the Roman Church, because I am perswaded, that if you should happen to entertain any Doubts of the security of the Grounds of Protestant Religion, it would not be the Grecian, nor any of the other Oriental Churches, whose Religion you would put in the scales against it, but only the Roman, from whence you had your Christianity, your Church her subsistence, and within the Limits and Iurisdiction of whose Patriarch you live. Do I not judg aright?

Prot.

Yes.

§. 30.

Cath.

Then, Sir, though at present you should have no doubts of any Doctrines taught by your Church, or rather in it (for your self will not allow her the Title of an authentic Teacher, neither does she challenge it) yet since you have voluntarily fixed your self in such a Church, which, not pretending to an infallible direction from God, cannot with any shew of reason tell you, that you are bound in conscience to believe any one of her Doctrines, nor that it is a sin for you to leave her Communion, and to chuse that of any other Society which you may like better, (for then all Christians should, as well as you, be obliged to joyn themselves to the English Church only:) Endeavour, I beseech you, with a mind as disinteressed as may be, to hearken to what may be alledged for the Right which the Roman Church has to challeng your Obedience, so as that the refusal of such Obedience would be an heinous Sin. For this Right indeed She challenges, and She alone: No other ancient Church hath, and no par ticular Sect doth, or can pretend to it.

Prot.

I am content.

§. 31.

Cath.

First then consider, that the very challenging of such a Right which belongs only to the truly Catholic Church, is a strong [Page] proof that She alone is that Church which hath a Right to challenge it, and would prove her self a false Church if She did not challenge it. But because perhaps you cannot easily induce your mind to consider her otherwise than as a particular Church, I confidently believe, that if the Eastern Church were united in one Body with the Western, you would not find any difficulty to think your self obliged to yield an entire Obedience to so great an Authority.

Prot.

This I willingly acknowledg.

§. 32.

Cath.

Be pleased then to reflect on some Age, when these two great Churches were united: for example, in the days of St. Gregory the Great. Then there was a perfect agreement through the whole World, excepting only the Societies of Ancient Heretics, acknowledged for such by Protestants. Then both Doctrine and Discipline was uniform every where. What St. Gregory taught was accepted through the whole Church: Yea those parts of his Writings which are most opposite to your Doctrines (as his Dialogues &c.) have presently after his time been translated into the Greek tongue and with veneration received by that Church: Whence will follow, that what he hath taught us in his Writings, touching Points of Religion, and which you most mislike, was then esteem'd true Catholic Doctrine. Now what does St. Gregory teach but the same which is now taught in the Roman Church? In all Controversies lately raised between Catholics and Protestants, he is constantly and directly against Protestants.

This is so manifest, that it is acknowledged by many learned Protestants, Humsr. in Iesuiti [...]mi part. 2. [...]. 5. Mig. leb. Cent. 6. p. 289. lb. c. 10. p. 748. Cari [...]. Chron. lib. 4. [...]. Onan [...]. Epitome cent. 6. Parker Antih. B [...]it. c. 17. who describing the particular Points of Religion professed by St. Gregory (and St. Augustine the Monk, sent by him to convert England) name these, Freewill, Merit and Iustification of Works, Pennance, Satisfaction, Purgatory, Celibacy of Priests, publick Invocation of Saints, and Worshipping of them, Veneration of Images, Exorcisms, Pardons, Vows, Monachism, Transubstantiation, Prayer for the Dead, Oblation of Christ's Body and Blood for the Dead, the Roman Bishop's Iurisdiction over all Churches, Celebration of Mass, Consecrations of Churches, Altars, Chalices, Corporals and Fonts of Baptism, Veneration of Relicks, Sprinkling of Holy-Water, Dedicating Churches to the Bones and Ashes of Saints, Indulgencies to such as visit Churches on certain days, Pilgrimages, and in a word, the whole Chaos of Popish Superstition, as they are pleased to stile it. So that Mr. Ascham affirms ofA [...]ch. [...]. pro [...]. Dom. p. 33. our Apostle St. Augustine the Disciple of St. Gregory, that He was the [Page] overthrower of true Religion, and the establisher of all Popish Doctrines▪ and another saith of him, That he subjected England to the lust of Antichrist, Osiand. Epist. p. 290. (which Antichrist you must take for granted, was St. Gregory) and therefore after his death, went undoubtedly to Hell, there to receive his reward. Thus evident Convictions forced them to confess that all the Doctrines of Faith now taught, were then professed as Catholic Doctrines: but gall and malice against the Church, suggested such foul, unseemly words to their Pens.

Notwithstanding Protestant Writers, when, not being engaged in controversie, they have occasion to treat of St. Gregory himself, they are not sparing in their Elogies of him, such as these: He was a Whitak. cont. Dur. l. 5. §. 26. Humfr. ad. rat. 5. Godwin in Conv. Brit. c. 4. Magdeb. Cent. 6. c. 10. holy and a learned Bishop. He was by Name and indeed truly Great, adorned with many and great endowments of Divine Grace, and (as he is often styled) the mouth and shining light of our Lord. He was truly a pious man, and for his Christian humility yet more to be praised. From his Infancy being addicted to the studies of Piety, he retired into a Monastery, where shewing a particular sanctity of life, and being wholly intent upon Prayer, he drew the eyes of all men upon him—He did so discharge the Pontifical Office, that following ages never had his equal much less any one excelling him. He was exceedingly renowned for Miracles, &c.

Now me thinks, Sir, the consent of the Eastern and Western Churches, under the Government of such a Prelate, so versed as he was in holy Scripture (witness his Sermons and Commentaries) should be so prevalent with you, as to make you suspect your own Reason, if it suggests to you that the Religion, professed in his days was superstitions and idolatrous.

§, 33.

Prot.

But why do you say, that the Universal Church in the East and West was governd by Saint Gregory, when he himself sharply condemned the Patriarch of Constantinople for assuming such a Title as Universal Bishop, which he calls an Antichristian Title.

Cath.

It was indeed a Title full of arrogance, and therefore justly condemned by St. Gregory in the Notion, in which he conceived it might be understood, as if the Patriarch pretended thereby to be esteemed the only legitimate Bishop in the [Eastern] Church.

For thence it would follow, that all other Bishops were only his Substitutes, acting by his commission, and removeable by him at pleasure: Whereas they claim a reception of their Order and Character, immediately from Christ alone. Such a new Title therefore it [Page] was that St. Gregory condemned in that Patriarch, and abhorred to accept himself, as plainly appears by his Epistles. But yet that he had a Superintendence over the whole Church as Supreme Pastor thereof, to receive and judge Appeals of Bishops from all Parts in causis majoribus; to oblige all Prelates, even Patriarchs, to the Profession of the Faith established in Councils, and the observance of the Churches Laws, and to impose Ecclesiastical Censures on all Transgressors of them, this St. Gregory challenged, and to this the Prelates both of the Western, and Eastern Churches also submitted, as appears by many Epistles sent by him, and Answers received from several Patriarchs, and other Prelates in the East.

§. 34.

Since therefore it is confessedly certain, that the present Roman Church professes the same Religion which Saint Gregory taught and planted in England, which the Eastern Church in those times approved without any contradiction, and which is now condemned by Protestants; it will evidently follow, that in those few Points in which the present Eastern Churches quarrel with the Roman, the said Eastern Churches only have been Innovators; and consequently that the Roman Church (that is, all Churches united in subordination to the Prime Patriarch and Pastor) still remains the Catholic Church, and enjoys the same Authority which the Universal Church in, and before, St. Gregories days enjoyed: So that all Christians who break from her Communion, do thereby shew themselves Schismaticks, and Self-condemned.

§. 35.

I have purposely made choice to instance in the time of St. Gregory the Great, because on the one side several Protestants impute the beginning of the Churches depravation principally to that Age; and on the other side Almighty God, as if he had a design to confute and silence their accusations chose that Age, especially in which to accomplish that most illustrious of all Prophesies, foreshewing the glory of the Catholic Church, which is the Conversion of Nations from Heathenish Idolatry.

The Prophesies themselves are thus expresly set down in the Old Testament, and acknowledged by Protestants to regard the Christian Church, The Prophet Isai writes thus: Isa. 60. 2, 3. The Lord shall rise upon thee, and his Glory shall be seen upon thee. ver. 5. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and Kings to the brightness of thy rising—ver. 10. The abundance of the Sea shall be converted unto thee: the [Page] forces of the Gentiles, shall come unto thee—ver. 11. The sons of Strangers shall build thy walls, and their Kings shall minister unto thee. ver. 14. Thy Gates shall be open continually, that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and their Kings may be brought—All they that despise thee, shall bow themselves at the soles of thy feet, and they shall call thee, The City of the Lord—ver. 22. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong Nation. Again, Isai. 49. 23. Kings shall be thy nursing Fathers, and Queens thy nursing Mothers. And again Isai. 39. 21. This is my Covenant with them, saith the Lord, My Spirit which is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy Seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever. Also the Kingly Prophet, Psal. 11. 8. I will give thee the Heathen for thine Inheritance, and the ends of the earth for thy possession. This Kingdom, (saith the Prophet Daniel) Shall not be given over to another people, but shall stand for ever, Dan. 11. 44. These are Gods Promises to his Church, so acknowledged by Protestants.

Now it is manifest out of Ecclesiastical History, that these Prophecies began not, in a signal manner, to be accomplished, till the days of Saint Gregory. For during the first three hundred years, the Church was wholly under Persecution, and was encreased chiefly by sufferings. In the next three hundred years, the Emperour Constantine being converted to Christianity, there were but few other Kings Foster-fathers of the Church; And besides this, several of the Emperours, and some Kings during that space, turned Arians and Apostates from the Catholic Faith. But from Saint Gregories time till Luther, it is incredible almost what we read of the Conversion of Nations and Kingdoms, and of the wonderful Piety and zeal of (once Barbarous) Kings and Queens, assoon as they had embraced the Catholic Faith. Which Conversions were generally made by the fervor, care, and authority first of St. Gregory himself; as England can, but most ungratefully will not, as becomes her, witness; and next of St. Gregories Successors, Bishops of Rome.

§. 36.

Now, Sir, consider the force of illgrounded prejudices. Several Protestants, though they saw all the formentioned Prophesies perfectly fulfilled by Catholic Missioners, yet out of the pre-assumed hatred to Catholic Religion, they will not acknowledg the forsaking Idols and worship of Devils, and the embracing of the Catholic Faith [Page] to be a Conversion, but rather a Perversion, and therefore wonder that they do not to this day see those Prophecies accomplished, which were made above two thousands years since, In so much as Castalio Professes, The more I do peruse the Scriptures, the less do I find these Promises Castal. in Praefat. Bibli [...]r. Lat. performed, howsoever they are to be understood. David George, a Protestant living at Basil, upon the same grounds became a Blasphemer of Christ, whom he called a Seducer. Bernardin Ochin turned an Apostate, denying they Divinity of Christ. Adam Neuserus, a Calvinist Professor at Heydelberg, turned Turk, and was circumcised at Constantinople. Alemannus likewise renouncing Christianity became a blasphemous Iew. And the principal motive of all these horrible changes, was an opinion that these Prophecies were false Dreams, or impudent inventions of Sectaries, and never fulfilled, because forsooth not fulfilled in a Church of their Reformed Religion, which Reform'd Religion never banished Pagan Idolatry out of one Village. Some conversions indeed of their own particular mode they have made, for by seditions they have banished Catholic Religion out of several places. And particularly the Hollanders may brag, that they have converted the great Empire of Iapan from the Catholic Faith to its pristine most execrable Idolatries; to effect which, they have procured the most cruel murder of near four hundred thousand Catholic Martyrs, themselves in the mean time renouncing the open Profession of Christianity.

§. 37.

Notwithstanding the truth is, the wonderful Conversions of Nations in former and later times also, by Catholick Missioners, have been so illustrious, that very many of the soberer Protestant Writers have highly exalted their zeal and unwearied deligence in their Apostolical functions, and glorified God for it: being forced hereto by the many undeniable Miracles wrought by them.

Yet the pleasant cunning of one Luther an Writer is very remarkable: his name is Dr. Philip Nicolai, who having written a Book on thisPhilip Nicolai de Regno Christi. c. 1. p. 53. very Argument, to wit, the fulfilling of the fore-cited Prophesies, touching the Conversion of Nations, is forced to alledg the examples not only ancient, as of the Saxons, Frisons, Danes, Germans, &c. converted by Catholic Bishops and Priests; but later also, as of innumerable People in the East and West-Indies, reduced from Idols to Christianity by Iesuits and other Religious Missioners; and to acknowledge likewise that God testified the Doctrine preached to them, by stupendious [Page] Miracles. All this, this Lutheran confesses; but then with a turn, he deprives Catholics of the glory and merit of all their labours, and applies it to his own Sect: for he tells his Readers, that all these Apostolical Preachers, in converting Nations, did Luther anizare; and that the Iesuits in their first converting the Oriental Indians, did shew themselves [not Roman Catholics, but] Lutherans and Evangelicks Might he not have said as well, that Christ's Apostles converted Nations, not as such, but as Lutherans?

§. 38.

Now if these Prophesies be Divine, and have indeed been fulfilled, they have been fulfilled by Catholics only, and consequently Catholic Religion constitutes that Church of Christ to which such glorious Predictions were made. I will therefore here adjoyn the words of St. Augustine, who having alledged out of the Scripture many such Prophesies; Au [...]. Epist. 165. concludes thus: Whilst thou holdest thy selffast to these Prophesies, if an Angel from Heaven should say to thee, Leave the Christianity of the whole Earth and chuse the part of the [Shismatic] Donatus, Luther, Calvin, Tindal, &c.] he ought to be to thee Anathema; because he would endeavour to cut thee off from the whole, and thrust thee up into one part, so alienating thee from the Promises of God.

§. 39.

These, Sir, among many other, are grounds surely sufficient to justifie the Right which the Roman Church has to merit your Obedience: I beseech you think seriously on them. For mine own part, I do sincerely protest to you, that unless I would renounce all other Guides to eternal Happiness, but an over-weaning Fancie of mine own abilities, or blind passion against all Guides establish'd in Gods Church: if Divine Revelation, consent of Antiquity, manifest Reason, and even experience by outward Sensation may be fit to guide me, I must not be a Protestant, I must of necessity be a Roman Catholic. For Divine Revelation (interpreted also by consent of Fathers and Councils) informs me, that Christ hath established on Earth a visible Church, which is, one holy and Catholic, the common Mother and only authentick Teacher of all Christians; that this Church shall remain such to the end of the World: and that whosoever is not a true faithful Member of this Church, is thereby cut off from the Mystical Body of Christ, and shall be eternally separated from Him. Again, evident Reason shews, that no Person, or Society, can be esteemed a Member of any Church any other way, than by believing its Doctrines, and being subject to its Laws and Government. In the third place, the testimony of our Senses assures us, that [Page] not any of our Modern Sects do assent to the Doctrines, or are governed by the Laws of any Church at all (and consequently not of the Catholic Church,) which had a being at their first (pretended) Reformation: therefore upon these grounds it evidently follows, that all the said Sects are manifestly guilty of Schism.

Moreover, since the Roman is that Church of which the first Reformers, once were Members, and by reforming made a separation from it, and since the same Church does constantly profess the same Doctrines which were once held by the Universal Body of Orthodox Christians; and again, since there is not any visible Church upon earth to which all marks of the true Church assigned in Scripture, and by the Holy Fathers, can be so applied, and whereto the Antient Prophecies and the Promises of Christ have been so perfectly accomplished, as the Roman; it will evidently follow, that the present Roman Catholic Church ought to be acknowledged that one Holy Catholic Church, which we confess in the Apostles Creed and by consequence whatsoever Doctrines, in opposition to the Faith professed in this Church, are taught by Protestants, they are thereby, without any particular discussion, legitimately prejudged to be formal Heresies.

Now Heresie and Schism being by all (even by Hereticks and Schismaticks themselves) acknowledged most dreadfully wasting Crimes, of which I cannot possibly be guilty whilst I adhere to the Roman Catholic Church, nor avoid the guilt of them by forsaking its Communion; I conceive I have, without any necessity of engaging in particular Disputes, given you rational Grounds enabling me to afford a sufficient Answer to the Question first proposed by you, viz. ‘Why are you a Catholic?’

§. 40.

And for a conclusion, Sir, give me leave to tell you, that it will be utterly in vain for you to atempt the avoiding of the [stigmata] brands of Heresie and Schism, by entring into an endless Dispute about particular Controversies, to be stated out of Books: For, till you be able to shew a present Visible, Orthodox Church, the Governors and Teachers whereof are derived by a continual Succession from the Apostles, which Church in all those Points for which you have separated from the Roman, teaches as you do, and either governs you, or is governed by you; Till this, I say be done, your busying your self about particular Disputes will never produce to you Peace of mind, but rather encrease in you Pride and Malice against others. Your [Page] first most necessary Care therefore must be to establish your self in such a Church as can oblige you to believe her: for by no other way can you (nor your Teachers) avoid Self-condemnation, as manifest Innovators.

There are certain illustrious marks assigned by the holy Scriptures and Fathers, to distinguish the true Catholic Church from Congregations of Hereticks and Schismaticks, such are Unity; Succession, Universality, Converting of Nations, Miracles, &c. And these are such marks as are perceptible by the meanest capacities, to the end that none should be excused if they mistake the Church. Now not one of these so visible marks belongs to you; and not one but belongs to the Roman Catholic Church.

§. 41.

When you are urged to shew some signs or marks which might invite any to joyn with you, all you can say is, That you teach Calvin. In [...]stit. l. 4. c. 2. truth, and that you duly administer the Sacraments; that is, you would prove your selves to be a true Church, because you say you are a true Church; for (not the marks, but) the essence of a Church consists in teaching Truth, &c. But marks of his Church, easily observable by all men, were appointed by God to lead the Simple as well as the Learned, to discover that Church which only teacheth Truth, and duly administers his Sacraments. Not any such marks do you pretend to shew, And as for this your miscalled, single Mark, the Unlearned cannot possibly judg, whether you do indeed teach Truth, &c. and the Learned must have spent their whole lives before they can be in a capacity to judg. And though they should be so unhappy as to suffer themselves to be convinced that you do teach Truth, &c. yet till you can further demonstrate that you are not guilty of Schism, but that you communicate with that one holy Catholic Church, which you believe in the Creed, it would (notwithstanding all the truth pretended to be taught by you) be a damnable sin in them to communicate with you.

These things considered, since I am confident it is impossible for you to clear this point, I believe you will find an insuperable difficulty to prepare, according to the method observed here, a tolerable general answer, sufficient to vindicate your Church; in case I should by way of exchange, propose to you this Question.

Why are you a Protestant?

Prot.

Judg not, Sir, too hastily. Perhaps at our next meeting [Page] you will hear more than you now expect. In the mean time I thank you for your Charity: And, God willing, I will seriously reflect on what hath been said.

Cath.

Farewel, Sir, and, if you think good, cast your eyes upon this little bundel of Citations out of several ancient Holy Fathers of the Church, who will tell you, that upon the very same grounds, which have been here discoursed on, they were good Christians and Catholics.

Prot.

If they tell me so, I shall not easily contemn what they tell me. Farewel.

✚ ¶ TESTIMONIES of HOLY FATHERS regarding The Substance of the foregoing DISCOURSE.

§. 42. §. 1. Of the Churches prepetual Existence. Visibility, &c.

OBscurius dixerunt Prophetae [...]de Christo, quam de Ecclesia, Puto August. in Psalm. 30. Conc. 2 [...]. propterea] The Prophets have spoken more obscurely concerning Christ, than concerning the Church. The reason hereof I conceive to be, because they foresaw in Spirit, that men would make divisions and parties, and that they would not much dispute about Christ himself, but that they would raise great contentions about the Church. Therefore that was more plainly foretold, and more openly prophecyed concerning which, greater contentions would in succeeding times be raised to the end a heavier judgment should befall those who saw [the Church] and yet fled out of it.

Quis numeret testimonia de Ecclesia toto Orbe terrarum diffusa? Quis Aug. in Ps. 147. Who can number the testimonies given [in Scripture] touching the Church spread over the whole earth? who can number them? There are not in the whole world so many Heresies against the Church as there are Testimonies in the [old] Law for the Church. What page there does not proclaim this? what verse does not mention it? All passages there cry out aloud for the Unity of our Lords Body; for he has placed peace through the borders of Hierusalem: Now thou, O Heretick, barkest against all these Testimonies: And therefore that whch is written in the Apocalypse is justly verified in that City, [Page] Without are dogs. Thou barkest against these [Testimonies] From what Tribunal dost thou judg? Thy Tribunal is the presumption of thine own heart. It is a lofty, but a ruinous Tribunal.

Exaltare super coelos, Deus, & super omnem terram gloria tua—] Be thou exalted, O God, above the Heavens, and thy Glory over all the earth, My Bretheren, we have not seen God exalted above theAug. in Psal. 56. Heavens; yet we believe it. But we not only believe, but we see his Glory exalted over all the Earth [in his Church.] Now I beseech you observe what a madness it is which possesses Heretics. They being cut off from the compacted Body of the Church of Christ, and by holding a part being deprived of the whole, will not communicate with the whole earth, over which the glory of Christ, is spread. O Heretical Madness! Thou believest with me that which thou doest not see: and thou deniest that which both thou and I do see. Thou believest with me that Christ is exalted above the Heavens, which neither of us hath seen: and thou deniest his glory over all the earth, which we both see.

In sole posuit Tabernaculum suum—] He has placed his Tabernacle in the Sun, that is, in a place manifest (to all) His Tabernacle is hisAugust. in Epist. Ioan. 2. flesh: His Tabernacle is his Church which is placed in the Sun: not in the night but in the day.

Tanquam ille, quem catechizamus, quaereret & diceret, quo ergo signo—]August. cont. Faust. l. 13. c. 13. If a Catechumen should be inquisitive, and say, But by what sign shall I, being as yet a little one and unable clearly to discern the truth from so many errours, by what mark, I say, shall I find the Church of Christ, to believe which, I am obliged by so many manifest predictions? Hereto the Prophet, as if he had a perfect knowledge of the Catechumens scruples, answers, teaching him, that this is foretold to be the Church of Christ, which is raised on high and apparent to all; For she is the seat of his Glory. For in regard of such doubts as may befal the simpler sort of Christians, who may be seduced by (crafty) men from the Church so gloriously manifest, our Lord providing a remedy, saith, A City which is set upon a mountain cannot be hid.

Christo tales maledicunt, qui—] Those do blaspheme Christ, whoAug. in Psal. 85. affirm that the Church hath perished from off the whole earth, and remained only on [Africa, Geneva, England Holland, &c.

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§. 2. Of the Catholic Churches Unity: and of Schism.Aug. de Baptis. cont. Don. l. 1. c. 10
§. 43.

Una est Ecclesia quaecunque illa sit—) There is one only Church, whichsoever that is, of which it is written, my dove (my undesiled) is but one, she is the only one of her Mother; neither can there be so many Churches as there are Shisms, [O this Position both the Schismatics, Donatists and St. Augustin were agreed. Aug. in Ps. 1. 30.

Perirem si essem departe Pauli—) I should perish (eternally) if I were of a party of which St. Paul was the leader: How then shall I avoid perdition if I be of the party of Donatus (of Luther, Calvin, Tindall, &c?)Pacian Epist 2. ad Sympron.

Quamvis Novatianus—) Though (the Schismatic) Novatian hath been put to death [for the Faith,] yet he hath not been crowned. Why not Crowned? Because he died out of the peace, concord and communion of the Church, separated from that common Mother, of whom whosoever will be a Martyr, must be a Member.

We ought rather to endure any torments, than consent to the dividingDionys. Alex. ap. Euseb. l. 6. of Gods Church: Since the Martyrdom, to which we expose our selves by hindring a division of the Church, is no less glorious, then that which is suffered for refusing to Sacrifice to Idols.Aug. Ser. 22. de diversis.

Si in Navi pericula sunt—] If there be dangers to those who are ein the Ship, there is certain drowning to those who are out of it.

In montem sanctum tuum—] Into his Holy Mountain. His holyAug. in I sal. 42. Mountain is his Holy Church. This is the Mountain which according to the Vision of Daniel, grew to this vastness from a small stone and breaks all the Kingdoms of the earth, and which encreased in greatness till it filled the whole surface of the earth. In this Mountain he was heard, who said, I cryed with my voice unto the Lord, and he heard me from his holy Mountain. Whosoever prays besides this Mountain, let him not hope to be heard to eternal life. Many are heard in many of their requests; but let them not boast because they are heard. The Devils were heard in their request to be sent into the Swine, Let us desire to be heard to eternal life.

There cannot possibly be made any Reformation of such importance,It [...]. l. 4. c. 62. as the mischief of Schism is pernicious.

Nobiscum estis in Baptismo—] You (Donatists) are with us in Baptism,Aug. in Psal. 48: in the Creed, and in the other Sacrament of our Lord. But in the Spirit of Unity, in the Bond of Peace, and finally in the Catholic Church you are not with us.

Tenenda est nobis Christiana Religio—) Christian Religion is to be heldAug. de Vera Rel g. [Page] by us, and the Communion of that Church which is Catholic, and is named Catholic, not only by her children, but also even by her enemies.

Fieri non potest—) It cannot possibly be, that any one should haveAug. Epist. 48. a just cause to separate his Communion from the Communion of the whole world.

Ut hanc omittam sapientiam—] Not to speak of that Wisdom,Aug. cont. Epist. Fundam. c. 3. which you do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom: the consent of people and Nations keeps me: the authority begun by miracles, nourished by hope, encreased by charity, established by antiquity keeps me there: A succession of Bishops from the Chair of St. Peter (to whom our Lord after his Ascension committed his Sheep to be fed) to the present pontificate, keeps me there, Lastly, the very Name of Catholic keeps me there, which name the Church alone among so many Heresies hath not without just reason possessed, insomuch as though all Heretics are desirous to be called Catholics, yet if a stranger asketh any of them where the Catholic Congregation meets, not any of them has the boldness to shew him his own Temple. These therefore so many and so great bonds, keep a believer firm in the Catholic Church, although by reason of his natural dulness, and perhaps his sins, he does not manifestly see and penetrate the depth of Divine Truths. But among you (Heretics) who have none of these advantages to invite or hold me, nothing is heard to sound, but a (vain) promise of true Doctrine, &c.

Firmissime tene, et nullatenus dubites—] Hold most firmly and doubtFulgent. de [...]ide ad Pet. cap. 39. not at all that every Heretic or Schismatic baptised in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, if [before he Dies] he be not joyned and incorporated into the Catholic Church, he can by no means be saved, though he should give never so many Alms, yea though he should shed his Blood for the Name of Christ; For neither Baptism nor liberal distributing of Alms, nor the undergoing death for the Name of Christ can profit any one to Salvation, as long as Heretical or Schismatical lewdness perseveres in him, which leadeth to [eternal] death.

§. 3. Of the Catholic Churches Authority. Of interpreting Scripture.Aug. Retract l. 1.

Saint Augustine informs us that a certain acquaintance of his derided the Disciples of Catholic Faith, by which men were commanded to believe [the Church] not being taught by demonstrative Reasons [Page] what was true. To satisfie this Friend, he wrote his Book De UtilitateId de Utilitate. credendi [Ecclesiae] in which he writes thus, It is fitly instituted by the Majesty of Catholic Discipline, that those who come to Religion, should before all other things be perswaded to believe [the Church] But you will say, were it not better that Reason should be employed to move me, which without any temerity I might follow withersoever it leads me? Perhaps it might be so: But since to come to the knowledge of God by Reason is a matter of so great importance and difficulty, do you think that generally all men are capable of searching into the Reasons by which mens minds may be brought to a knowledg of Divine Mysteries? Or are the greatest number of men such? or but a few? I suppose you will answer, But a few. If so, do you think that the knowledg of Religion is to be denyed to all the rest, who have not so piercing a Judgment?——It is a miserable thing to be deceived by Authority; but it is much more miserable not to be moved by it. If Gods Providence does not preside over human affairs, there will be no cause why we should trouble our selves about Religion—We ought not therefore to despair that some Authority is constituted by God, by which those who walk doubtfully may be raised up to God.

Puto si quis Sapiens extitisset—] I conceive that if there were extantAug. de Unitate Eccl. c. 19. a wise man to whom our Lord had given his Testimony, [viz. that he should be directed by him:] and if that man were consulted by us concerning this controversie, we should not at all doubt to do whatsoever he enjoyned us, least we should be adjudged to oppose our selves, not so much to that man himself, as to our Lord Jesus Christ, by whose Testimony he is recommended. Now such Testimony doth our Lord afford to his Church.

Haeretici qui cum in unitate—] Heretics, who though they be notAug. in Psal. 41. in Catholic Unity and Communion, yet Glory in the title of Christians, are compelled to oppose Orthodox Believers, and they have the boldness to attempt the seducing unskilful Christians by force of disputing and Reasoning, whereas our Lord came with a peculiar Medicine against this, when he enjoyned (not reasoning, but) Believing to all people. But Heretics are forced to take the way of arguing by reason, because they see themselves in a most abject Condition, if their Authority be compared with Catholic Authority. Therefore they endeavour to prevail by a pretence and promise of Reason [Page] against the most unshaken Authority of the firmly established Church. This is the uniform, and, as it were, regular temerity of all Heretics. But the most clement Emperor of our Faith has fortified with the Citadel of Authority his Church, both by numerous Congregations of People and Nations, and the Chairs of his Apostles; He also by a few piously learned and truly Spiritual men has armed his Church with most copious provisions of invincible Reason. But the more secure and rational Discipline is, That those who are ignorant or infirm should be received within the Castle of Faith (depending on Authority) that they may be defended by those who can combate with the weapons of most powerful Reason.

Noc nos ipsi tale aliquid auderemus asserere—) Neither durst we affirmAug. de. Baptismo cont. Donat. l. 2. any such thing (viz. that Hereties ought not to be rebaptized) if we were not strengthned by the unanimous Authority of the universal Church: To which Authority, no doubt, Cyprian (who held the contrary) would have submitted, if in his time the truth of this question had been established by the examination and decision of a Plenary Council.

Proinde quamvis hujus rei certe de Scripturis Canonicis non proferatur Aug. cont. [...]reseon. [...]. 33. exemplum—) Although no express example can be brought out of Canonical Scriptures touching this Point (of rebaptization:) yet the truth of the same Scriptures in this matter is held by us, when we do that which has pleased the Universal Church, which the Authority of Scripture themselves does commend, That since the Holy Scripture cannot deceive (us,) he whosoever is in fear of being deceived by the obscurity of this question, may consult the same Church about it, which Church the holy Scripture doth without all ambiguity demonstrate.

Aliud est cum Authoritati credimus-) It is one thing when we believe,Aug. de Quantit. Animae. c. 7. submitting to Authority; and another when we yield to reason, To believe Authority is a way very compendious and without labour.

Et si nulla ratione indagetur) Whatsoever is from Ancient timesAug. cont. Iulian. l. [...]. c. 5. preached by our Orthodox Faith, and believed through the whole Church, though by no search of reason it can be found out, and though by no speech it can be clearly expressed, yet notwithstanding it is (to be acknowledged) most true.

Haeretici sunt sibi arbitri Religionis-) Heretics are to themselvesHilar. l. 1. [Page] judges of Religion; Whereas the proper work of Religion is the Duty of Obedience (to Authority.

Non ad Scripturas provocandum est-) We must not (disputing with Tertull. de Praescrips. c. 18. Heretics) appeal to Scripture. Neither is the debate to be constituted in things, in which either no victory at all will follow, or an uncertain one, or little better than uncertain. For though the success of examining Scriptures should not be such, that each party should have no advantage over the other; yet due order requires that that should be first proposed, about which at present we are to dispute, viz. to which of the parties (the preaching of) Faith belongs: who have right to the Scriptures: from whom, and by whom, and when, and to whom that Discipline has been delivered by which men are made Christians: For where the Truth both of Christian Discipline and Faith shall appear to be, there also will be the Truth of Scriptures and Expositions, and all Christian Traditions.

Si quid horum per orbem frequentat Ecclesia—) Amongst such things,Aug. Epist. 118. whatsoever is practised by the Church through the world, to dispute whether she ought not to be imitated therein, is a mark of most insolent madness.

Scire sufficit—) It is a sufficient Motive to reject from our Belief whatsoeverAug. de Haeres. we know to be contrary to the teaching of the Church.

Dicet aliquis, si Divinis eloquiis) It may be demanded, how, ifVincent. Lirin. Comon. c. 38. both the Devil and his Disciples do make use of and apply Divine Scriptures, Sentences and Promises, of whom some are false Apostles, others false Prophets, and all of them Heretics: What shall Catholic children of our Mother the Church do? How shall they discern truth from falshood in (interpreting) Holy Scriptures? Hereto we answer, (according as we have received from Holy and learned men before us) that they must be very careful to interpret Scriptures according to the Traditions of the Universal Church, and according to the Rules of Catholic Doctrine.

THE SECOND QUESTION: BUT, WHY ARE YOU A PROTESTANT?

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§. 45

CAth.

Sir, Have you considered seriously on the Subject of our last Discourse?

Prot.

Yes.

Cath.

And have you found either in Scripture. Tradition, Councils, or Holy Fathers, any warrant to remain divided, both in Doctrine and Discipline, from all Churches antiently existent upon Earth; and at the same time to profess, notwithstanding, a Belief of One, Holy, Catholic Church, out of whose Communion there is no Salvation.

Prot.

I freely accknowledge that I am not able to produce any considerable Quotations to confront yours: Quotations, I mean, asserting the Authority of particular, or new-erected Churches, independent on others.

Cath.

Then since, it seems, both Scripture, Tradition, Councils and Fathers have given their Testimonies against you, Why are you (still) a Protestant?

§. 46.

Prot.

Sir, I suppose you do believe I should be very glad to find out a Church to whose Authority I could think my self obliged entirely to submit mine own judgment, and securely to commit my Soul to her guidance. But hitherto not having been able to find such an one, I must be content to stay where I am: For as for the Roman Church, to whose Communion alone you would invite me, she appears to me so wholly depraved, that I think a real Miracle would hardly draw me to joyn my self to her Communion.

Cath.

I see, Sir, that you, despairing to justifie your own Churches, and to excuse them from Schism, do seek to draw me to particular Disputes: By which notwithstanding you can receive no benefit at all, whatever the success of such Disputes shall be: For still the unpardonable guilt of Schism will lie upon you. However I will not refuse so far to comply with you. Therefore tell me, Wherein consists that depravation you speak of?

Prot.

It consists in this, that both her Doctrines and Discipline are framed, as on purpose to comply with wordly interests: and by consequence are opposed to the Spirit of Christianity.

Cath.

How does that appear?

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§. 47.

Prot.

It appears more than sufficiently in this that (as theS [...]ogli, [...]el Chr. Nau [...]r. late learned Arcbishop of Spalato observes) all those Points of your Belief and Practice which we condemn, and for which we separate from your Church, are such as manifestly have a strong influence on the satisfying either her Ambition or Covetousness.

Cath.

Which are the Points which you suppose to comply with Ambition?

Prot.

These which here follow: 1. Your Churches assuming the Title of Catholic to her self alone, with exclusion of all other Churches. 2. The Popes assumed Universal Authority. 3. His pretended Infallibility in determining Controversies. 4. His usurped Temporal Authority. 5. A Power to be acknowledged as given to Priests, by consecrating the outward Symbols, to make the glorified Body of our Saviour present on the Alter. 6. The Offering it in Sacrifice to the Father. 7. The exposing of it to mens Adoration. 8. The Obligation imposed on all sinners to discover their most secret sins to Priests in Confession, and to submit to satisfactions enjoyned by them. 9. A proud esteem of attaining to Iustification and Salvation by your own Merits. Thus your Clergy, not content to invent Doctrines proper to procure their own Exaltation; would instill Pride into the people also.

§. 48.

Cath.

For what Doctrines do you accuse the Roman Church of Covetousness.

Prot.

Of this latter sort are the Romane Doctrines. 1. Touching Prayer for the dead and Purgatory, out of the torments whereof Souls are to be redeemed by Masses, Alms, &c. 2. The gaining of Heaven by mony given for Indulgences. 3. The Invocation of Saints. 4. The worshipping of their Images and Relicks: To which Pilgrimages are ordained with costly Offerings, &c.

§. 49.

Cath.

This Observation, made by the infamous Apostate you named, if rightly considered, truly seems to argue a guilt somewhere; yet not in the Church, but much rather in those who seperated from her. For it strongly argues, that, since, to oppose her, they made choice only of those Points which regarded the Honour, Authority and Wealth of the Clergy; the true Motives inducing them to rebel against the Church, were, not any zeal for Truth, or care for their Souls (for they acknowledg her Orthodox, as to all Points of Doctrine approved by former Heretics.) That therefore which stirred up their rage against her was Envy, Hatred of Obedience, and a thirst unquenchable to rob her of the Treasure and Possessions conferred on her by the Piety [Page] of their Holy Progenitours. Now Sir, tell me sincerely, If you were to establish a Church, would you take for your pattern that Schismatical King Ieroboam, who chose Priests from the dreggs of the People; or1 Kin. 12. God himself, who instituted a splendid Clergy?

Prot.

It cannot indeed be denied, but that contemptible, needy and depending Directours of Souls will but very meanly discharge so high an Office as Christ has committed to them, having made them Spiritual Iudges of Mankind, and stiled them the Light of the world, Mat. 5. 13. 14. and the Salt of the Earth.

§. 50.

Cath.

If the first Reformers had been of your Judgment, they would first have reformed in themselves their inordinate Passions. But, Sir, if you please, let us leave the judgment of mens secret intentions to Almighty God, to whom alone they are open and transparent. However, this may with full assurance be asserted, That if Sacriledge and freedom from Ecclesiastical Iurisdiction were not the only prime Motives, they were, and will be, the prime Effects of your multiplied Reformations.

§. 51.

Prot.

I am well content to desist from enquiring into the secret thoughts of persons on either side: And therefore I will henceforth consider the forementioned Points in debate between us, absolutely and in themselves. And so doing, you must give me leave to say, That this also may with full assurance be asserted, that, whatever Motives the Roman Church may have to require Belief of them, we cannot assent to them without rendring our selves guilty of apparent contradicting Scripture generally in them all, and no less than the heynous Crimes of Superstition and Idolatry in several of them.

Cath.

I do not much wonder to hear from you so a cruel a Censure of our Catholic Belief. Yea, perhaps I should my self joyn with you in the like, if I should take a prospect of the Church by the same false Light that I perceive you have done.

Prot.

Why, Sir, from whence should I receive Light to discover what you teach, but from our Controvertists?

§. 52.

Cath.

I did not at all doubt from whence that which you call Light came. And therefore permit me to tell you, that if you frame your judgment touching the Faith, of Catholics by what you find commonly in Controvertists, you will condemn you know not what, nor whom.

Prot.

This is strange: Do none of our Controvertists understand what your Church teaches?

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§. 53.

Cath.

What, and how much they understand I cannot define. But this I may with confidence say, that generally judging of your Controvertists, not a twentieth part of one of their Volumes contains an examination of the necessary Faith of the Church, which Faith notwithstanding is pretended to be confuted in every Page.

Prot.

Notwithstanding what you say, yet your Controvertists also in answering our Books, do take on them to defend whatsoever ours oppose as the Doctrines of your Church.

Cath.

It is too true indeed of some of them; who deserve much to be blamed for giving thereby occasion to our Adversaries to multiply unnecessary Debates, by a partial esteem of their own private, adopted Opinions, of their peculiar Interpretations of the Churches Doctrines, their probable Additions to them, and Inferences from them: all which they are desirous should pass for Points of Catholic Faith. Besides this, several Schoolmen there are, whose end of Writing being to boast their Wit and Subtilty, who will penetrate into all things; no Mysteries shall be incomprehensible to their Philosophy, and who think it a great Mastery to advance Positions bordering on the very brink of Heresie, Speculative or Moral, and then by some nice Distinction to prove them, if not Orthodox, at least not deserving the utmost Censures. And of these mens rashness Protestants oft-times take advantage, and zealously oppose them, as if the Church were obliged to make good their aery Speculations.

§. 54.

Prot.

What Expedient then do you propose to me by which I may be certainly informed of your Churches Doctrines.

Cath.

The way is plain, easie and short, if you will look before you and not wilfully go out of it.

Prot.

I pray you put me into that way.

Cath.

The way is to examine candidly and seriously the Churches own Decisions only, which if you do, you will find how little she is concern'd in the accusations you lay against her.

Prot.

If this prove true, surely our Modern Controvertists have a dreadful Account to make to God, who seem studiously to design the widening of the breaches amongst Christians.

Cath.

That what I say is true, I dare take the confidence to make your self the Iudge. And this I undertake to demonstrate through all the controverted Points before mentioned by you, not by disputing, alledging Proofs, or answering Objections; but only by representing [Page] to you, in a simple manner, the pure, naked Doctrine of the Church in relation to all these Points.

Prot.

I am likewise sufficiently averse from clamorous Disputes, which commonly are only Prizes of a quick Fancie or voluble tongue, and fomentors of unruly Passions. Therefore I expect what you intend to say.

§. 55.

Cath.

Before I begin, I have a few Requests (in my judgment not unreasonable) to make to you. The first is, 1. That (having supposed that upon a true or false Belief Eternity of Happiness or Misery depends) you would force your Imagination to put your self in that state in which your first Reformers really were, immediately before they broke from the Churches Obedience and Communion, and supposing that you were earnestly tempted by them also to forsake it, by adhering to a New-begun Society, never heard of in the world before, upon a pretence that the Church in which you live, and which you as yet esteem to be the true Catholic Church, teaches most pernicious Errours, Superstitions, and Idolatrous practices: Of the Justice of which pretence your Tempters, now declared Enemies, will needs be the Iudges.

Prot.

This I will endeavour to perform.

§. 56.

2. Cath.

My Second Request is, That you will acknowledge that the Doctrines of Catholic Faith, once decided by the Church, are to be understood in the plain literal Sence, and in the latitude of the Churches expression. And by consequence that when they are severally restrained to different particular Senses by interpretation of Catholic writers, such Interpretations are not necessarily to be admitted by you: And much less are other Doctrins, by inference drawn from them, to be esteemed Points of Catholic Faith, but only Opinions of particular Divines, which do not oblige to Assent.

Prot.

This ought in reason to be acknowleged.

§. 57.

3. Cath.

My third and last Request is, That, when your Tempters shall tell you that the Catholic Church teaches Dostrins contrary to Scripture, you would acknowledge that unless such a pretended Contrariety can be evidently demonstrated to you, you ought not for that cause to forsake the Churches Communion: For undoubtedly; where her Doctrines seem only probably contrary to some Text of Scripture, her Authority is such as to oblige you to belive that her Sence ought to be preferred before that of her Enemies, who are desstitute of all Authority. And it would be madness to transgress the [Page] necessary Duty of peaceful Obedience and of avoiding Schism, upon a probable hope of finding some Truths, elsewhere.

Prot.

Reason requires that this also be granted.

§. 58.

Cath.

These concessions therefore being presupposed, give me leave to put you in mind of what you said at the entrance into this our Discourse, viz. That, this may be with full assurance asserted, that you cannot assent to any of those Doctrines taught by the Roman Church, and rejected by your Party, without rendering your self guilty of apparent contradicting Scripture.

Prot.

I remember this well: but how will you disprove me?

Cath.

If this Perswasion of yours were well grounded, it would be not only in vain, but unlawful for me to seek to withdraw you from it. But being on the other side assured, that what you say is apparent, is only so in a false appearance to your mind prepossessed; I hope I may without vanity promise to demonstrate to you, that you only think, an this without Ground, that you are assured.

Prot.

You make large Promises to your self, which I believe will have small effect upon me.

Cath.

Sir, Truth and a Good intention make me confident, that Divine Grace, which is Omnipotent, will accompany them. Whereas therefore you say, That Roman Doctrines are apparently, or evidently contrary to Scripture: I desire you to take into consideration that the same Roman Church, at the same time, both proposed the Belief of those Doctrins to your first Reformers, and also gave them the Scriptures, testifying that they were the infallible Word of God. Therefore certainly it was far from being evident to her that her Doctrines did evidently contradict Divine Revelation. Now you will not surely deny but that in the Catholic Church there are men as learned, and those in a far greater number, than among Protestants, Men, I say, who also make the Scriptures their principal study, and have published almost innumerable Commentaries on them; again, Men, of whom a great number live sequestred from the world, in an assiduous Practice of Spiritual Prayer, and therefore not likely to have their judgments perverted by worldly interests: Yet not any one of these does see, or but suspect that the Faith they profess is contradicted by Gods Word: on the contrary, they invincibly demonstrate, that the Church has been, as the only Depository of Scripture, so likewise of the true Sence of it: How comes then that to be evident to you, which [Page] is invisible to them? Which way went the Spirit of God, from the whole Church, to inhabite a debauched incestuous Fryer, or a stigmatized Pichard, upon whose credit doubtless you have taken up your Evidence? If they could have shewed you in Scripture such passages as these, The Pope is not the Supream Bishop and Visible Head of the Church: Bread by Sanctification does not become the Body of Christ; We ought not to confess our sins to Priests: Purgatory is a meer humane invention: It is an injury to Christ to desire Saints, but none to desire Sinners, to pray for us, &c. Such sayings indeed as these might have justifyed your charge against the Church, that she contradicts Scripture. But where are such sayings to be found, except it be in the Heretical Writings, of your Reformers? On the contrary, some Points contradictory to those are found litterally contained in Scripture; and to elude them you are foced to have recourse to figurative sences, and the rest are conveyed to us by the same Authority, by which we receive the Scripture it self, Yea by the Holy Fathers justified as consonant to Scripture: and however I suppose you will not say, that silence is equivolent to express contradiction. The utmost that you can say is, that perhaps you can produce now and then some scattered Texts of Scripture from which you can make a shew of arguing against some Tenets of the Catholic Church; But what will that avail you, since Probability (as hath been said) will not excuse you for omitting a necessary duty of Obedience, and incurring the horible guilt of Schism. Where now do you see an evidence that the Church contradicts Scripture?

Prot.

I shall be better enabled to give a resolution in this Point, when, according to your promise, you shall have given me an account of the necessary Doctrines of your Church in the points controverted between us.

§. 60.

Cath.

That Promise I will now, with Gods assistance, discharge through all the Points mentioned by you in the beginning.

And first as touching the two first Points, viz.

1. The Churches Authority.

2. The Popes Universal Iurisdiction, &c. enough hath been said in our former discourse. Yet for your further satisfaction I will enlarge my self a little more. Take therefore into your consideration that it is a Fundamental Truth agreed on by all Catholics, That the only Objects of Catholic Faith are such Divine Truths as are revealed in Gods Word, and also proposed to all by the Catholic Church to be believed by Divine Faith.

[Page]Now this general Ground being presupposed, in case any Controversies should arise touching the sence of any Divine Truths revealed, it is unquestionably necessary that some Means should be appointed by God to determine such controversies, and to prevent a dissipation of his Church by Heresies and Schisms. And what other Mean can be imagined efficacious hereto then what hath been taught and practised even from the Apostles time, and this declared by the Council of Trent. That no man trusting to his own prudence (or skill) shall presume to interpret Holy Scripture in matters of Faith or Manners pertaining to Conc. Trid. Sess. 4. edification of Christian Doctrine, wresting it to his own sences, against that sence which our Holy Mother the Church doth, or hath held (to whom it belongs to judg of the true sence and interpretation of Holy Scriptures) or also against the unanimous consent of the Fathers?

This is that which the Roman Catholic Church teaches concerning her Authority of interpreting controverted Texts of Scripture. No more then this is any Catholic obliged to believe. Now I leave it to your conscience whether you can think it a sufficient Ground for you to break from her Communion upon this quarrel, because she judges more fit that the judgment of the whole Body of Teachers and Governors appointed by God in her, should prevail against your single judgment, or that of a few Apostat-Ministers: Especially considering the Promises made by our Lord to his Apostles and their lawful Successors, that his Spirit should remain with them and direct them into all Truth, till the end of the world, so as that the gates of Hell (that is, say the Fathers, Io. 16. 13. Mat. 16. 18. Heresies) should never prevail against them.

Prot.

I see it is in vain to contradict this.

§. 61.

Cath.

Let us next proceed to what the Church has determined touching the Priviledges and Authority of the Prime Pastor the Bishop of Rome. Thus then we read in the Confession of Faith collected by theBulla Pii [...] P. 4. Pope himself out of the Council of Trent, I acknowledg the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church to be the Mother and Mistress of all Churches: and I promise true Obedience to the Bishops of Rome, Successor of St. Peter Prince of the Apostles, and Vicar of Iesus Christ. Here the See Apostolic being acknowledged the Mother and Mistress of all Churches, and the Pope Vicar of Christ, his universal Iurisdiction, is therein acknowledged, which Jurisdiction, or Authority, we are not to suppose to be arbitrary and unlimitted: but (as we read in a Canon of the Council of Florence consented to byConc. F [...]r. the Emperor, Patriark and other Bishops of Greece) to be exercised [ [...], &c.] after the manner as is also contained in [Page] the Gests of Oecumenical Councils and Sacred Canons. And such a Primacy invested with Authority as this the General Council of Chalcedon (admitted by Protestants) does acknowledg in him: which is also attested by Tradition, and practice from the beginning.

§. 62.

Now the necessity of such a standing Authority in Gods Church is thus grounded. The absolutely Supream Ecclesiastical Authority, against which can lye no Appeal, is confessedly residing in a lawful General Council, by which all Debates whatsoever may be determined, all necessary Laws enacted, &c. But it being a matter of infinite difficulty, especially since the division of the Roman Empire, to bring together so vast an Assembly from all Regions, and yet Unity, essential to the Church, being always to be preserved, which cannot be done without a supereminent Goverment always existent, hence it is come to pass that the supream Bishop and Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, has even from the beginning been acknowledged this supereminent Governor through all the whole Church, to take care that the common established Laws, former Definitions and Decisions of the Church be every where observed and professed; to prevent any innovations in Doctrine; and also to end Controversies among Catholics (if any arise) at least by silencing contentious Disputes till a General Council may further consider them: by which all Schisms are prevented; and also Heresies, that is any Doctrines that are declared by this supream Pastor contrary to former Church-definitions perpetually crushed: and lastly to judg in causis majoribus; when quarrels arise among Patriarks, Metropolitans, &c.

Thus stands the case; and now I appeal to your own Conscience, whether you can imagine any other Expedient for preserving a general Peace and Unity in Gods Church: And whether if you were appointed, and also enabled, to frame such a Church as was necessarily to continue always One Body, Reason it self would not dictate the same Order to you. Experience shews that all Divisions both in the West and East are to be ascribed to mens renouncing Obedience to this Common Governor.

§. 63.

Prot.

Truly Sir, I cannot but acknowledg that to preserve Order and Peace in so vast a Body as the Church is, there must of necessity be a Government; and if Government then Subordination and consequently an established Supream Governor. And now methinks reflecting upon Ecclesiastical History, I see clearly that such an orderly [Page] Government was settled in the Church by the Apostles themselves. For if, as some among us pretend, the same Apostles had intended no Supereminence of Bishops above Presbyters, and no degrees of authority among Bishops, it could not possibly have happened, that a few unarmed Bishops, not assisted by Secular Power, should, so immediately after the Apostles, have subdued such a world of Presbiters, formerly supposed their equals, to their Iurisdiction, and no marks be left in any antient Writers to shew that those Presbyters resisted, or so much as complained against such an usurpation and tyranny. And the like may be said touching the Subordination of simple Bishops to Metropolitans, Primate, Patriarks; and of all these to the Supream Pastor: Though probably those Titles came into the Church in posteriour ages. Therefore upon due consideration I cannot deny but my aversion to such and so qualified an Authority of the Bishop of Rome, as you say is moderated by the Churches Decision, is very much abated.

Cath.

Since therefore you now see a way how to avoid danger from this (to you formerly) Rock of offence, I may, I suppose, proceed to the following Points of Controversie touching the Holy Eucharist, &c.

§. 64.
3. Of the Popes Temporal Authority and Iurisdiction.

Prot.

No, Sir, You go too fast: For, though I am perswaded that our first Reformers with all their Rhetoric should not have drawn me with them out of the Church, upon this Motive of opposing such an Authority in the Pope, as has been acknowledged by General Councils, and the ordinary Exercise of it to be regulated by approved Canons, since, I suppose such Authority regards only Ecclesiastical Affairs. But your Church will not be contented with this: for she will extend it also to Temporal matters, even to the disposing of Kingdoms, deposing of Princes, absolving Subjects from their natural Allegiance expresly commanded in Holy Scripture, &c.

Cath.

Where do you find that our Church invests the Pope with such an Authority?

Prot.

I cannot distinctly tell you that: but of this I am assured that the Pope challenges it, and as by Divine Right.

Cath.

How do you ground such an assurance? you will not surely esteem this to be an irrefragrable Proof thereof, because some of his Predecessors have challenged it, when as for above a thousand years [Page] before them not any precedent Pope ever pretended to it.

But let it be supposed that the present Pope did now challenge it: Will you not live in a Community in which the Governor challenges more then you will grant to be his due.

Prot.

No truly: especially if that Authority, to which he pretended, endangers the ruine of Kingdoms, or the utter banishment of Peace every where. For such an Authority, I am sure, was never established on earth by our Saviour, who is the Prince of Peace. And that which makes me assured hereof is this, because if Christ had had such an intention of dissolving the Frame of all Civil Government through the world, he would have left in Scripture, or Tradition, most express proofs of such his will, in a matter of that infinite importance: whereas the quite contrary rather appears.

Cath.

You say well. But will you run out of the Church in case a Pope should chance to challenge more then his due, when perhaps no obligation lies upon you to submit to such Authority challenged by him, or to acknowledg the justice of it?

Prot.

Dare you disacknowledg this Authority?

§. 65.

Cath.

What I acknowledg or disacknowledg is not material. But to rectify your mistake, I will sincerely acquaint you with the whole matter as it stands at this day: and thence you may collect what must be required from you, in case you are a Catholic.

Prot.

You will much oblige me therein.

Cath.

Then, it cannot be denyed that (besides that Temporal Power indeed belonging to the Pope within his own Dominions, of which he is now the Temporal Soveraign) several Popes in former times have both Challenged, and actually exercised an unlimitted Temporal Iurisdiction over other Kingdoms and Empires. Which Iurisdiction, if it hath not been expresly acknowledged as just, yet it hath been sometimes submitted to by Kings, either obnoxious and unable to resist, or desirous to make use of it for their own advantage against Enemies or Rebels. Several examples hereof remain in our Records, particularly during the Raigns of King Iohn and Henry the third. But generally Princes, when freed from such exigences, have resolutely and stoutly resisted such pretentions of the Roman Court.

If we now descend to latter times, and cast our view on the present state of Christendom, we shall find Kings and states so far from admitting such an exorbitant forrain Iurisdiction to be exercised or [Page] acknowledged within their Dominions, that not any of them will permit Rescripts, Bulls or Mandats from Rome, though regarding even Ecclesiastical affairs (unless touching private inferior persons) to be published, and much less executed within their states, till examined and approved in their respective Councils.

Nay more then this: even the Canons of Reformation prescribed by the General Council of Trent, as far as they are suspected to entrench upon the Temporal Power of Princes, have always been refused to be admitted in France, the Pope not only knowing, but expresly allowing such refusal; as appears by the Bull of Pope Clement the eight sent to King Henry the fourth, at his reception into the Church, Perron in Ambass. and recited by Cardinal Perron in his Epistles: in which Bull we find this Clause; His Majesty shall effectually take order that the Council of Trent he published and admitted in all things, Excepting only (at your must earnest Supplication and Petition) those things, if there be any such, which cannot be put in execution without a real disturbance of public tranquility.

The King of Spain likewise, though believed to be more complyantEpist. Margaretae Gubernatricis ad Archiepiscopum Camerac. & Responsis ejusd. with the Court of Rome, being sollicited by the Pope to publish and admit the same Council in his Belgick Provinces, though he willingly yielded thereto, yet he did it not without this additional Clause adjoyned, Touching the Regalities, Rights, Prerogatives and Preeminences of his Majesty, his Vassals, Estates and Subjects; the Laycal Iurisdiction hitherto used, the Right of Lay-Patronage the Right of Nomination, Hearing of causes in the possessory matter of Benefices, Tithes possessed or pretended to by Seculars, &c. in regard of all such things his Majesties Intention is, that proceedings shall go on as hitherto they have done, without changing any thing at all, &c. So necessarily scrupulous are Christian Princes to prevent the least diminution of their Temporal Rights and Priviledges.

More lately likewise when certain Authors of one Order published several Treatises, in which they endeavoured to exalt to the height the Popes Iurisdiction Universal in Temporal affairs, those Books were censured and condemned by many Catholic Universities, and committed to the fire by Public Authority, the Pope not being ignorant hereof. And moreover (which perhaps is yet more considerable) the Superior General of the said Religious Order, even in Rome it self, published an Edict (known to all Christendom) by which he strictly [Page] forbad his Subjects, under most heavy Censures, to maintain such a Temporal Iurisdiction of the Pope, either in Books, Sermons or Disputations. Now that which makes this so solemn a Prohibition of more weight is this, that whereas the foresaid Authors earnestly contended to prove that all Christians were obliged to believe the Popes Right to such Authority, as an Article of our Christian Faith, the said General▪ by publishing his Prohibitory Edict, clearly shewed that he renounced the Belief of such a Doctrine: For otherwise, Who but a [...] Antichrist would so severely under a penalty of Excommunication forbid the teaching or defending an Article of Faith? And moreover in a General Chapter not long after assembled, the said Prohibition was ratified by all Superiors of the same Order, as their own Writers testifie.

Prot.

I must needs confess that Christian Princes, and Subjects too▪ are much beholding to that Worthy General for his prudence and zeal to prevent occasions of tumults and Seditions. Notwithstanding it seems to me that Princes are not yet secure: for though the said Doctrine should cease to be esteemed an Article of Faith, why may it not be defended as an Opinion, at least Speculatively probable? and if so, a slender Probability will have force but too great to raise and foment Rebellions, when discontents are multiplied among the people.

§. 66.

Cath.

You are much deceived, Sir. For besides that you may be sure that Princes will never permit their Authority to be rendred questionable, the very pretending such a Doctrine to be only Probable, is equivalently to grant that it is no Authority at all: Since every one knows, that a meer probable Title against a long established possession (such as is that of Princes for their Temporal Soveraignty) is in Law and Reason accounted no Title: and consequently none who have any sence of Christianity will ever seek, with the horrible Scandal of Religion to instill such a manifestly unjust incentive to Rebellion into the minds of Christians.

And now, Sir, I beseech you to consider things seriously, and then judg with what injustice and cruelty our whole Religion and Church is condemned, as teaching Treason and Rebellion, and this only for a few private mens Writings, so generally abhorred by our selves.

Prot.

All I can say hereto is, that for as much as concerns my self, I will be no longer an accuser of your Church in this matter. Proceed [Page] therefore if you please, to the other following Points.

4. Of the Real Presence and Transubstantiation.
§. 67.

Cath.

The next Point of Catholic Doctrine, opposed by all Sectaries, regards the Holy Eucharist. Their rage against the former is indeed greater, because interest is more concerned in it: but a greater advantage for seducing the ignorant people they make of this, because they permit them to judg of this most dreadful Mystery by their outward Senses, which, Catholics, instructed by Holy Fathers, tell them are not to be believed here.

In the Eucharist the first matter of Dispute, and ground of the rest, is the Catholic Doctrine touching the Real Presence of our Lords Body on the Altar after Consecration of the Symbole, thus declared in the Council of Trent, I prosess that in the most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is present truly and substantially the Body and the Blood, together with the Soul and Divinity of our Lord Iesus Christ: And that there is made a Conversion of the whole Substance of the Bread into his Body, and of the whole substance of the Wine into his Blood: Which Conversion the Catholic Church calls Transubstantiation.

This Article of our Belief is to us solidly established on the Words of Institution. THIS IS MY BODY: which Words without any figurative explication are repeated alike by three Evangelists and the Apostle Saint Paul: therefore we believe, following universal Tradition, that our Lord sincerely meant as he spake; and because we believe so, we are hated.

Prot.

But how can you expect that we should assent hereto, since our Senses contradict it?

§. 68.

Cath.

You cannot say however that our Senses are deceived: for in this great Mystery they have a right perception of their proper Objects, to wit, Colour, Extention, Figure, &c. Neither I suppose, will you say that the judgment which Reason from the Senses collects, is always infallible. For if so, then (for example) our Saviour whilst living on earth should have been judged a meer Man: And the Angels, appearing to Lot and his daughters, no Angels but meer men: for so would Reason, relying on the outward Senses, have judged.

Prot.

in these examples Divine Revelation expresly teaches the contrary.

Cath.

Then if in the present case you were assured by Divine Revelation [Page] that God by a supernatural Power did on the Priests consecrating the Symbols produce a real Change of the Outward Elements into the Body and Blood of Christ, you would believe God against your Senses.

Prot.

I should no doubt.

§. 69.

Cath.

Can you have a greater assurance hereof, then the express Words of Christ literally understood by the Constant Tradition of all Churches in all ages?

Prot.

Such an assurance truly would to me be sufficient.

Cath.

Then, since we are not met here to mannage a formal Dispute, give me leave to desire you seriously to peruse what has passed very lately in Writings on this Argument between Monsieur Arnauld a Doctor of Sorbon, and the most subtle of the Huguenot Ministers called Monsieur Claude. There, besides Testimonies of Antiquity, you will find our Catholic Doctrine acknowledged by the Prime Bishops of Greece, Muscovy, Armenia, and many other Oriental Sects, who by their Attestations, subscribed with their Names before Witnesses, have professed that the Doctrine touching the Real Presence and Change of the Visible Elements into the very Body and Blood of Christ, is the constant Doctrine of all their respective Congregations, and that it has been so delivered to them by their Ancestors from the beginning.

Prot.

Truly Sir, if this appear to me, I shall not trouble my self with Doubts or Objections from School Philosophy; nor examine the [ [...]] How such a change is made: which Examination hath been long since condemned by St. Cyrill of Alexandria, but humbly submit my judgment and assent to what God has revealed, as I do also in the Mysteries of the Blessed Trinity, the Incarnation, &c. For indeed I find that the Doctrine touching the Holy Eucharist has from the beginning been delivered as a Mystery also incomprehensible by natural Reason.

§. 70.

Cath.

You may add hereto, that even the Calvinists themselves, though the most perverse Enemies to this Mystery, yet afford a considerable Proof of it against themselves. For seeing clearly the Tradition touching the Real Presence so fully attested in the Writings of the Holy Fathers and in Ancient Councils, they, even when they endeavour with most eagerness to oppose it, oppose it in language counterfeiting that of Antiquity; so ashamed are they to renounce both [Page] the sense and expressions too, of the Primitive Church. This may be observed not only in the Polemical Writings of Mestrezat, Anbertin and others of their Champions, but even in their Catechism and simple Confession of their Faith. For, there we read; That our Saviour Confess. de Foy: Art. 36. Catech. Dimanch. 53. nourishes and quickens us with the substance of his Body and Blood, That he is given us in the Sacrament according to his proper Substance; And that, though he be truly communicated to us both by Baptism and the Gospel; Yet that is only in part, and not entirely (so that it seems, inIb. 52. the Eucharist they receive him whole and entirely.) Moreover, that the Body of the Lord Iesus, in as much as it hath been once offered in Ibid. Sacrifice to reconcile us to God, it is now (in the Eucharist) given us to rectify us that we have part in that reconciliation.

§, 71.

And as for English Protestants the time was within mans memory, when not only the Prelates of this Church (without Huguenotical hypocrisy) delivered their Belief of this Mystery in expressions very Catholic; but his Majesties learned and wise Grand-Father giving the world an account of the Faith of that Church of which he was the Head, delivers it thus, We acknowledg a Presence (of Christ in the Sacrament no less true, then you (Roman Catholics:)Epist. a [...] Cardin. Perron. but we dare not determine the manner of it. Neither truly dare we Catholics. Thus learned Protestants wrote and spoke before this last, worse then Zuinglian Reformation and new Rubrick: since which time the English Church has permitted all fanatical sectaries to make her a brocher of all their frenzies, and a justifier of Doctrines which devour her very vitals.

Prot.

Enough of this, Sir, Be pleased now to proceed to the next Point.

5. Of Adoration of Christ in the Holy Eucharist.
§. 72.

Cath.

The next controverted Doctrine, regards the Adoration of Christ in the Holy Sacrament. Concerning which the sum of the Churches Faith is comprized in this her Decision; Whosoever shall Council. Trid. Sess. 13. can. 6. say, that Christ the only begotten Son of God ought not to be adored in the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist with the Supream Worship (Latria) even external—And that his Adorers are Idolaters, let him be Anathema.

Now the Doctrine touching the Real Presence, being once established, will sufficiently justify this: for certainly it is not only lawful, but our Duty to adore Christ whereever he is truly present. And consequently this Practice of Adoring our Lord in his Sacrament is by [Page] the same Universal Tradition delivered, and ordained in all Publick Liturgies, both of the Grecian and other Oriental Churches.

§. 73.

But the great, and too willing mistake of our Adversaries is, that they impute to us the Adoration of the Visible Elements: Whereas the proper Object of our Worship is not any Visible thing, Nay, we do not terminate our Worship percisely in the Body of Christ which we beleive invisibly present: The proper Object of our worship is the Person of Christ God and Man veiled under the Visible Elements. So that in case it should happen through some incapacity in the Minister, or defect in the manner or matter, that the Elements should not be effectually consecrated, and yet we, (beleiving Christs Body to be Sacramentally present,) should so worship him, in this indeed would be a circumstantial mistake, but here would be no Idolatry, nor indeed any fault in us, the Errour being supposed undiscoverable by us. The reason is, because the Belief of the Presence of Christs Body is truly grounded on Divine Revelation; and not a fond fancy such as was that of the Manicheans worshiping Christ as peculiarly present in the Sun, or of the Isrealites conceiving God to be peculiarly present in the Calves at Bethel. And to this you may see Daille yeilding his consent, in his Apology for the Reformed Churches, the eleventh Chapter.

It is observable with what strange and unreasonable partiality the Calvinists treat Catholics in this Point: They give their judgment that there is no dangerous Venome in the Doctrine of the Lutherans touching this matter, and therefore have Synodically granted them admission to their Cene which the Lutherans scorn. Now the Lutherans profess the Real Presence of Christs Body together with the Bread: and some of them acknowledg Adoration due to him there. So that to a Calvinists conscience the same, or a worse Doctrine held by a Sectary looses all its poyson: it is only dangerous to believe what the Church teaches. Yea those very Calvinists acknowledg also, that if Christ be in such a special manner really present, Adoration would be due to him. Some Lutherans deny this. But whether they affirm or deny any thing, upon condition they will stay out of Gods Church, they shall be welcome Brethren to Calvinists.

Prot,

Truly such a dis-ingenuous want of Honesty and such interessed Compliance is very justly to be condemned. You may now proceed.

[Page]6. Of the Sacrifice and Oblation of Christs Body on the Altar.
§. 74.

Cath.

The next Point, with regard to the Holy Eucharist, quarrelled at by Protestants, is our Doctrine touching the Sacrifice of Christs Body on the Altar concerning which the summ of the Churches Decision is as followeth: I profess that in the Mass is offered to God a Bull. Pii. P. IV. Concil. Trid. Sess. 22. c. 1. true, proper and propitiatory Sacrifice for the Living and the dead. By which Sacrifice that bloody Sacrifice performed once on the Cross is represented, and the memory of it remains till the end of the world: the saving vertue thereof is also applyed for the remission of those sins which are dayly commited by us.

All Catholics receive this Decision, as it lyes: As for School-men, they according to their custom, raise a world of unnecessary Disputes which are no where so multiplyed as on this incomprehensible Mystery of the Holy Eucharist. But as many of their Questions seem no way necessary, so no Catholics are obliged to their Decisions.

§. 75.

Protestants set themselves against this Sacrifice, upon a meer mistake of the Term, which they will needs affirm to imply an Immolation: and thereupon argue, that the Roman Church manifestlyHebr. 9. 26. Ib. 28. contradicts the Authour of the Epistle to the Hebrews who affirms that Christ hath now once in the end of the world appeared to put away sin by the Sacrifice of himself. And that he was once offered to bear the sins of many: and thence concludes the absolute Perfection of that one Sacrifice of Christ once offered, which did not need be repeated, as the Legal Sacrifices did.

But this pretended Contradiction will quickly vanish, if we consider that though the Sacrifices made by Christ did accomplish all sorts of Sacrifices and Oblations in the Law, yet the forementioned Divine Authour in a special manner compares it to that great Anniversary Sacrifice of general Propitiation, in which after the killing of the beast, the High Priest alone, and only once every year, carryed the Blood into the Holy of Holies, and there sprinkled it before God. In like manner did our Saviour after his bloody Sacrifice on the Cross, ascending intoIb. 12. Heaven by his own blood entered into the most Holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now these two Acts of Priesthood are by his commission in a sort, repeated by his Servants whom he hath ordained Priests in his Church, and who according to Saint Augustine's expression are [propriissime Sacerdotes] in a most proper Sence Sacrificing Priests. For answerably to the Acts of Immolation, their Sacrifice on the Altar is only Representative [Page] and Commemorative, and expressed by Seperating the Body from the Blood, Yet so, that it is not barely a Sign of Christs death, for that alone would not be sufficient to entitle it a Sacrifice; but it also contains the Victim whose death is represented. And again with regard to Christs offering and presenting to his Father his crucified Body in the most Holy place, or Highest Heaven, his Priests truly and properly present and Offer to Almighty God the same Body and Blood really present on the Holy Altar, as a Propitiation for the Living and the Dead. Which Propitiation is not at all injurious to that Propitiation and Eternal Redemption purchased for us by our Saviour, since it receives all its virtue from his bloody Sacrifice, being instituted for an Application of the said Redemption. For thus also in an inferiour degree the same Propitiation is applyed to us by other Sacraments, as Baptism, Pennance, and Absolution, and Extream Unction, yea also by the Word preached, &c. And thus much even the French Calvinists do acknowledge in their Cene, as hath been shewed. Now I desire you to judge what prejudice can come by the various applications of Christs Merits.

Prot.

There seems to me now no such great difficulty in admitting a Relative Sacrifice, and a proper Oblation. Therefore you need not enlarge this Point any further.

7. Of Communion under One Species.
§. 76.

Cath.

The last Subject of Protestants quarrels against the Church, with relation to the Holy Eucharist, is her Ordaining to the Laity, Communion under one Species only.

Now it is acknowledged that, as our Saviour instituted this Sacrament in both Species, so for many ages together, it was, in public Communions, received accordingly: I say, in Public Communions: for in other private occasions, as in Sickness, at Sea, and generally among the devout Inhabitants of Desarts, it was otherwise: yet these, receiving in One Species only, did not esteem themselves deprived of any vertue pertaining to the integrity of the Sacrament: And the reason is, because they generally believed (as the Church has now declared) that it is most true, that as much is contained in each Species, as under both: for whole and entire Christ does exist under the Species of Bread, and under every particle of that Species: in like manner whole Christ does exist under the Species of Wine, and under its parts (when separated) Upon this ground the Church without intending the least prejudice to her Children, has thought fit, for avoiding many inconveniences and [Page] irreverencies which did frequently occur by the negligence and confusion of such vast multitudes of Communicants receiving the Blood also, that all, excepting the Priest who celebrated, should content themselves in Public Communions, as from the beginning Christians did in Private, with our Lords Body only under the Species of Bread, which is not obnoxious to the like inconveniencies, considering that hereby they should not be loosers of any part of the Blessing.

§. 77.

This regards the Holy Eucharist considered as a Sacrament. But as it is a Sacrifice, both the Species are necessary to the constitution of it, it being ordained to represent the Death of Christ by shedding his Blood: Which representation is made by Consecreating and offering both the Body and Blood separatly.

Matters standing thus, it concerns you much to consider whether this be a just cause of your Speration from the Catholic Church in which you might have been partaker truly and really of the precious Body of Christ: whereas in Congregations divided from her, you, instead of the Body and Blood of our Saviour, must content your self with a morsel of meer bread and a sup of wine.

Prot.

I will, by Gods assistance, think seriously on this. In the mean time you may proceed to the following Points.

8. Of Sacramental Confession, Pennance and Satisfaction.
§. 78.

Cath.

The next Catholic Doctrine severely censured by you, as an invention of the Clergys ambition, is the Obligation imposed by the Catholic Church on her subjects to Confess their Mortal sins, and to submit to satisfactions for them; according to this Canon, Whosoever shall deny Sacramental Confession to have been instituted by Divine Law, or to be necesary to Salvation: or shall affirm that the manner of Confession secretly to the Priest alone (which the Catholic Church from the beginning hath allways and still doth observe) is disagreeing from the institution and command of Christ, and that it is a humane invention; Let him be Anathema.

This Duty of Confession of sins seems by this Canon referred to that Commission and Privilege given by our Saviour to his Apostles and their Successours, Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted; and whose soever sins Ioh. 22. 23. Mat. 18. 18. Iam. 5. 16. ye retain they are retained, As likewise to the Precept to Saint Iames, Confess your sins one to another: Which Texts have been alwayes interpreted by the Holy Fathers in the same sense. The universal Practice likewise of the Iewish Synagogue conformable hereto adds a considerable weight to induce us to a perswasion that it is by Divine Institution. [Page] For how can it be imagined that by any humane invention a Duty so burthensom to flesh and blood, and to our Natural Pride, could have been introduced generally into the Church, without sparing the awfull Majesty of Kings and Modesty of Queens, by an unarmed Ecclesiastical Power, the Pope himself also owing such Submission to a simple Priest.

§. 79.

The ground of the necessity of this Sacrament is, because those who by Baptism having submitted themselves to the Churches Authority, afterwards do violate the Laws of the Gospel, ought to undergo the judgment of the same Church in the Tribunal of Penance, where she exercises the Power given her of remitting and retaining sins. Now such judgment is esteemed as given by Iesus Christ himself, by whom and in whose place his Priests are appointed Iudges. It is this invisible High Priest who after Confession, Sorrow and Satisfaction interiourly absolves the Penitent, whilst the Priest, exercises the exteriour Ministery, as a Subordinate Iudge, without whose concurrence Sins shall not be remitted.

§. 80.

As for Satisfactions imposed after Confessions, they, accordingConcil. Trid. Sess. 14. Can. 13. 14. to the Churches expression, regard only Temporal Pains due to our Sins; She does not teach that we can satisfie God for the guilt even of Venial Sins; or for Eternal Pains. Moreover she declares, that these Satisfactions are accepted of God through the Merits of Christ: and that they do no way obscure the benefit of Christs death, For Christ by his death has so satisfied for our sins, that it is Gods pleasure his satisfaction should not produce its full effects, till it be by us particularly applyed in the use of his Sacraments and works worthy of Penance: to which Works his Merits being linked, and not otherwise, our Satisfactions will be accepted by him, through his pure Grace and Mercy.

The Lutherans, who seem so only to rely on Christs Passion for the remission of their Sins, doubt not yet to profess that a previous Faith is necessary thereto, for such as are come to the age of discretion, and Baptism for Infants. The difference then between us is, that they pretend to be justified by a Dead Faith, and we by a Living. Now therefore advise with your self whether you would forsake Gods Church rather then submit your self to a Duty, without which that eminent Priviledge given by our Lord to his Ministers for the general good of his people, of remitting Sins, becomes vain and of no effect.

Prot.

I will seriously think on this: and now expect what you will say concerning the other Articles.

[Page]9. Of Indulgences.
§. 81.

Cath.

I will, if you think good, in the next place treat of the Point touching Indulgences, by reason of its affinity to the former.

Prot.

I leave the Method to your own choice.

Cath.

Concerning Indulgences then the Church hath thus delivered herConcil. Tride [...] Sess. 2 [...]. sense: Since the Power of giving Indulgences hath been bestowed on the Church by Iesus Christ, and that She hath made use of this Power, divinely left her, from antient times: the Holy Synod teaches and commends the use of Indulgences, as very beneficial to all Christian people, and approved by the Authority of other Holy Synods; and that they ought to be retained in the Church▪ And denounceth Anathema against those who assert that they are unprofitable; or deny that there is a Power of giving them in the Church. Notwithstanding the Synod admonishes that the granting of them be done with great moderation, according to the ancient and approved Custome of the Church; for fear least by two great a remisness Ecclesiastical Discipline be weakned.

Thus we are taught by the Church. And certain it is that there is not any Point of Catholic Faith which, taken simply according to the Churches own expression, is more evident, as to the Truth of it, and less offensive, as to the use, then is this touching Indulgences. Yet after all, there is not any one Point so embroyled by Controvertists disputing for and against Inferences and Interpretations made by several Schoolmen, which have occasioned most horrible Scandals by abuses committed in Practise: This having been the first occasion of Luthers revolting and Schism.

§. 82.

Now forasmuch as regards the proper, necessary sence of this Canon, those very Schoolmen who advance the virtue of Indulgences Suarez. Vasquez. much beyond what will be allowed by many very learned Catholics, yet do acknowledge that the Church by her Decision obliges us to believe as of Faith only this, viz. That only such a Power of conferring Indulgences has been left by our Lord to his Church as from ancient times has been practised and approved by former Synods, intending those that are usually cited to that purpose, as the first of Nicea, Can. 11. of Neocaesare Can. 3. of Laodicea, Can. 1. and 2. the Fourth of Carthage, Cap. 75. and of Agdes, Can. 6. in all which Synods we only find this, that it was always lawful and usual for Bishops to remit to their Penitents some part of those Canonical Penances which were inflicted for certain crimes, in case the life and laudable conversation of the [Page] Penitent did seem to deserve so great a favour; or if by such indulgence they thought requisite to encourage weaker Christians in times of Persecution to suffer for the Faith.

Hence appears that whatsoever beyond this we read in the Catholic Writers, as thouching the remission of any pane due to Sin in the judgment of God, or after death in Purgatory, or touching certain clauses in the Bulls of some Popes; or touching the Churches Treasure consisting of the Merit of Christ alone, as some, or of the Merits of Saints joyned to those of Christ, as others conceive, &c. not any of these are necessary Points of Catholic Faith.

Thus in effect the Catholic Church requires no more to be assented to, but what is taught and practised by every Congregation of Christians upon Earth. All Sects, even Fanatics and Quakers, denounce Censures against Delinquents. Must all those Censures alwayes have their full effect? Is no mercy to be extended to humble, contrite Penitents? Shall no difference be made between Sinners converted, and those that are remorsless? This is contrary to humane Nature and the practise of all mankind. Therefore surely you would not forsake the Catholic Church for allowing that which all Christians esteem necessary.

§. 83.

Prot.

If this were all that the Roman Church teaches concerning Indulgences, they are much to blame who condemn her. But the general Practise therein contradicts you. Do we not see the virtue of Indulgences extended to the other world? Do we not see in the tenor of promulgated Plenary Indulgences all Sinners promised Remission, and Heaven too for a few Prayers recited, for visiting a certain number of Churches, or disbursing a small sum▪ of Money? Quid ergo verba audio, cum fact a videam?

Cath.

All that you alledg being confessed, what prejudice can that bring to you or me? I told you that several School-men in their Speculations do attribute more to Indulgences then the Church gives them warrant for? and this they themselves acknowledg. So it fares in all Religions, that Opinions do in number far exceed Articles of Faith. No wonder therefore if Popes do enlarge their Graces according to the measure of Opinions, not condemned. And who justly blame them, since they themselves reap no profit by all the Alms given? Indeed in the former Ages great Scandal was given by the avarice of such as published Indulgences, and collected the charitable [Page] Alms of devout people. Of which Scanda [...] [...]e Church taking Concil. Trid. Sess. 21. de Reform. c. 9. notice, utterly abolished that Office, and commanded Bishops in such occasions to assume from among the Canons of their respective Churches to be Collectors of Alms, withal strictly forbidding them to accept any reward at all for their labour.

§. 84.

Matters standing thus, what harm flows to any by Indulgences so published? Though perhaps not one in a hundred gains the full vertue of such Indulgences, yet something they do certainly gain; some reward they will reap from performing the good actions enjoyned, which probably would otherwise never have been done by many. However, they loose nothing at all. They are taught, not to expect remission of unrepented sins, or to gain Heaven by an Indulgence: for none are capable of the fruit thereof, but such as have with Contrition confessed their sins▪ and received absolution, and consequently are in the state of Grace, but yet remain obnoxious to temporal punishments, from which an Indulgence, duely made use of, doth free them.

§. 85.

One incommodity indeed may justly be apprehended by a too profuse and frequent concession of Indulgences, which is the enervating of Ecclesiastical Discipline: to prevent which the Church (as I said in the entrance into this Point) expresly and earnestly admonishes Ibid: Sess. 25. that the granting of them may be done with great moderation according to the antient and approved Custom of the Church.

Now If all this care will not yet satisfy you, however surely you will have no excuse for leaving the Church upon this account, because though there be never so many mistakes or abuses in the ordinary teach of Private Doctors, and common practice about Indulgences, you will not need to concern your self in any of them; since if you think fit, you may keep your money in your purse, perform your Devotions in your private Closet, endeavour to fulfil all Canonical Penances which have been, or, by the utmost rigor of Ecclesiastical Discipline, ought to have been imposed on you for all your sins, and so freely abstain all your life time from making use of an Indulgence,

Prot.

Enough hath been said on this subject: proceed, if you think fit, to the next.

10. Of Iustification, and Merit of Good Works.
§. 86.

Cath.

After the discoursing of Confession, Penance, and Indulgence [Page] it will be seasonable and proper to treat of the Fruit arising from, or by occasion of them, which is the Merit of Good Works and Iustification. There is scarce any Point of Catholic Doctrine from which Protestants have sought greater advantage to multiply foolish Books and senceless Sermons, then this touching Iustification: and oft it falls out that their zealous Invectives against the Church are then most loudand bitter, when explaining themselves, they presently agree with the Churches sense. Of this, as soon as I have sincerely acquainted you with our Catholic Doctrine, I am content you should be the Judg.

§. 87.

First then, it is acknowledged that the Church teaches,Council. Trid. Sess. 6. can. 11. That men are justified (indeed) by the imputation of Christs Iustice, and by Remission of their sins; but not by these only, so as to exclude Grace and Charity shed abroad in their hearts by the Holy Ghost: that is in effect, That God does not justify nor remit sins to persons while they persist in their sins and in a hatred of him. Again the Church, making use of the ordinary expression of the Holy Fathers, teaches, That a Ib. can, 34, person justified truly merits eternal Life by his good Works.

Now this word Merit (the word, I say, but not the true sense of it when they will permit us to explain it) is very offensive to Protestants. But you having obliged your self to avoid partiality, will judg of the Churches sense by what she further adds for explication of this Point; and for clearing her self from the imputation of encouraging men to glorify themselves, and to trust in their own abilities for purchasing remission of sins and salvation.

§. 97.

Thus then she further teaches, it is necessary to believe that Ib. c. 9. sins neither are, nor ever have been remitted, but by Divine Mercy freely Ib. c. 8. extended to us, for (the merits of) Iesus Christ. Again, We are said to be justified freely because not any of those things which precede our Iustification, whether Faith or Works, can merit that Grace. In the thirdIb. c. 16. place, Eternal life ought to be proposed to the Children of God, both as a free Grace mercifully promised to them through Iesus Christ; and also Ibid. as as a Recompence which is faithfully rendred to their Good Works and Merits, by vertue of that Promise. Fourthly although in Holy Scriptures so much is attributed to Good Works, that Iesus Christ himself promises that a Cup of cold water given to the poor shall not fail of a Reward, and that the Apostle testifies that our light and momentary tribulation worketh fur us a far more exceeding, eternal weight of glory; Yet God forbid that a Christian should either trust or glory in himself, and not in the Lord, [Page] whose Goodness towards all men is so great that he is pleased, that the Free Gifts bestowed by him on them should be their Merits. I will add only one passage more, out of a great heap, to the like effect. We, Ib. Sess. 14. cap. 8. who of our selves, as of our selves, can do nothing, by our Lords cooperation, who gives us strength, can do all things: Thus man hath nothing in himself for which he can glory, but all our glorying is in Christ, in whom we live, in whom we merit, in whom we satisfy, bringing forth fruits, worthy of Repentance, which fruits take their vertue from him, are offered to the Father by him, and accepted of the Father for him.

Thus are we instructed by the Church in the Council of Trent andCan. Miss. moreover in the Canon of the Holy Mass we are taught thus to pray. Mercifully vouchsafe, O God, to admit us into the Society of thy Apostles and Martyrs, not weighing our Merits, but pardoning our offences through Iesus Christ.

§. 89.

Can you now say, Sir, that the Roman Church teacheth her Children to glorifie themselves, and to rely upon their own Merits, or indeed to esteem their Merits to be their own? she must cancel the whole Scripture if she would affirm that without a good life and Holiness we may see God: Or if she would affirm that God has not obliged himself by a world of Promises to reward our Good Works with Happiness infinitely exceeding the value of them.

But withal to preserve in our hearts that most essential virtue of our Christian Professor, Humility, She further instructs us, that our Works as Merits, are the pure free Gifts of God and effects of his meer Grace, which alone affords them all their value: That they are accepted and rewarded by God, only for the Merits of Iesus Christ. Yea further, that our Natural Corruption still remaining, and mingling it self in our best actions, we can have no assurance that they are indeed such as God has promised to reward: And however, that though we now stand, yet we have no assurance that we shall not fall. In a word the whole Substance of her Doctrine touching the present Subject directs us to work out our Salvation with fear and trembling: and when we have done all we can, to acknowledg our selves unprofitable Servants, having only done our duty (if we have indeed done that) and consequently if God do reward us, it is to be ascribed to his own free Goodness and Grace, in which alone we place our trust, and not at all in our own imperfect Merits.

§. 90.

And now, Sir, judg whether the Roman Church teaching [Page] these Doctrines can with any shew be accused or suspected to have a design to nourish Spiritual Pride in her Children; and whether the first contrivers of Schism had reason to publish to the world, as the principal ground of their rupture, this Article of Iustification and Good Works; and in opposition to her, to make the people believe that the Faith by which they are to be justified must be a strong resolute Fancy, of their Election, and an assurance of their Salvation; that a holy life has no influence therein; yea that Good Works do rather [...]uth. harm then good; and lastly, that this monstrous kind of new invented Faith once had, can never be lost again, nor their right to heaven prejudiced by never so many, or never so heynous crimes. Among them there is no working our Salvation with fear and trembling. Assurance of Salvation in them annihilates the great Christian vertue of Hope. This in the midst of a world of Sins they will be assured of Salvation, to which Assurance Catholics dare not pretend in the midst of all their Mortifications, Humiliations, and assiduous Devotions. Since therefore, Sir. you are so afraid of Pride, as indeed we have all reason to be, be you the Iudg which of these Parties affords you best means to avoid it, and so, best deserves your choice.

Prot.

A short consideration will serve the turn for that purpose, Be pleased to proceed.

11. Of Invocation of Saints.
§. 91.

The next Point censured by you is the Churches Doctrine touching Invocation of Saints: thus expressed in the Council of Trent, Concil. Trid. Sess. 25. It is good and profitable to call upon the Saints, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid and assistance, whereby to obtain from God many benefits by the Merits of his Son Iesus Christ, who is our Redeemer and Saviour.

In this Point I shall briefly offer to you these considerations; 1. That it is a general Tradition of Gods Church from the begining, and not contradicted by sober Protestants, that glorified Saints do incessantly Pray for the Militant Church on earth. 2. It is unquestionable that we may desire to receive benefit in particular by such their Prayers. 3. That it contradicts all reason and modesty in our Adversaries to charge the addressing our Petitions to them for that purpose with the horrible crime of Idolatry, since we do no otherwise beg the Intercession of Saints, then we do that of our sinful Brethren alive, acknowledging God alone to be the Author and fountain of all good.

§. 92.

Hence it follows that the worst title that malice it self can [Page] with any shew of reason affix to this our Practice is, that it may be esteemed superfluous, in case it can be demonstrated, that Saints at such a distance cannot hear nor know our Requests in particular. Yet neither would this enervate the Churches Doctrine or Practice; E [...]ius. which by eminent Divines is proved to be laudable and profitable, though they did not always hear us: neither indeed has the Church any where determined her Belief, that they do so. But lastly, if it be the Church her self, and not some private Catholic Writers, that you would question about this Subject; observe, that in her public Liturgy and Mass, celebrated on all the Feasts of Saints, she continually addresses her Petitions directly to God alone, desiring him to grant us such special Blessings by the Intercession of such and such Saints. Now it cannot be doubted but that Charity and mutual assistance among fellow members of the same Body is very acceptable to God whensoever and wheresoever performed. We are taught to beleive a Communion of Saints: we doubt not of their Charity to us: our Communion therefore with them must be to testify our joy for their Happiness, and our assurance that their Intercessions for us are more prevalent with God, then the Prayers of our living imperfect Brethren: Therefore since we may and ought, on occasions to beg these, and to desire God to hear them for our good, much rather surely ought we to do the same with regard to the glorified Saints. I leave it therefore to your conscience whether you can judg that a separation from Gods Church on this quarrel can be justified.

Prot.

At least I shall never hereafter impute Idolatry to her for this Practice.

12. Of Veneration of Images and Relics of Saints.
§. 93.

Cath.

The next Point of Catholic Doctrine, and which has an affinity with the last, regards the Veneration due to Holy Images and Relics, which is equally censured by Protestants. It is thus expressed in the Confession of Faith set down by Pope Pius the Bull. Pii. P. IV. fourth. I do most firmly assert that the Images of Christ, of the Virgin-Mother of God, as likewise of other Saints are to be had and retained, and due honour and Veneration to be given to them, and also to their Relics.

§. 94.

Now to justify the use which Catholics make of Images, the Veneration due to them, and that such Veneration is most unjustly and calumniously by some Protestants interpreted to be Idolatry will be no hard task to perform.

[Page]For common reason and the experience of all mankind instruct us, that men do naturally desire and delight to think or talk oft on such things past, or persons absent from whom they have received some Signal benefit, and much more if they expect an addition of like benefits. But besides this, if the very thinking or speaking of them with affection be it self a Duty advantagious to us, and conducing to our happiness, we will thank any person, and we will think it reasonable to furnish our selves with such expedients as are proper to put us oft in mind of them: which we therefore regard in a far other manner, then we do such things as represent to us only indifferent Objects. Is not this, Sir, suitable to Reason?

Prot.

Truly it seems so to me.

Cath.

Then I desire you to examine your self, and tell me, if whilst your thoughts are employed on vain, or perhaps sinful objects, one should on a sudden hold before your eyes a Crucifix containing the History of our Saviors Passion, would not the fight thereof recal your mind to the contemplation of an Object more noble, more heavenly, to mediate on which would be very beneficial to you.

Prot.

No doubt it would.

Cath.

Again, may not one glance of your eye thereon so refresh your Memory as in a moment to make you call to mind as much of the Story, as perhaps the reading of a long Chapter in the Gospel would do?

Prot.

That may be granted.

§. 94.

Cath.

May it not likewise have the same effect, and be yet more helpful to ignorant persons who cannot read, and have weak Memories?

Prot.

It may doubtless.

§. 95.

Cath.

And are not such representations, beside refreshing the memory, proper also to raise in your mind holy affections of love and gratitude to our Saviour?

Prot.

It is confessed: But what is all this to worshiping or adoring a Crucifix or other Image?

Cath.

Sir, I desire you, since these terms of Adoring and Worshiping in our common English are usually made to import the Supreme Honour due to God alone, that you would, not (in imitation of your libelling Controvertists, whose only aym is, by any arts to render our Religion odious to unwary Readers) make use of them [Page] in this argument: But take the Churches own expression, and call the respect we bear to Sacred Images and Relics, Honour, Reverence or Veneration.

Prot.

I am Content.

§. 97.

Cath.

Then, Sir, give me leave to ask you, Whether it is not another kind of special regard which we have to Sacred and Heavenly Objects, from that we bear to profane? as for example, Can you think fit to do all the same things in a Church, which you would have no Scruple to do in your house, or in an unclean place?

Prot.

No doubt, a difference is to be made.

Cath.

And would you not judg that person injurious to our Saviour, or to his Blessed Mother, who should deface, spit upon, or defile the Pictures of either of them? And on the other side, whether seeing another reverently kissing, either of them, you would not collect thereby that he bore respect to the glorious Persons represented?

Prot.

Let all this be granted.

Cath.

And would you call such a reverent behavior of the latter person, Idolatry; especially when he (with the Church) professesCouncil. Trid. Sess. 25. that he acknowledges no kind of virtue or Divinity in them for which they should be honoured, or that any thing is to be beg'd of them, or any trust to be put in them: which acknowledgment the Church her self requires from him?

Prot.

I confess, I see there no Marks of Idolatry: but on the contrary, an express renouncing of it.

§. 98.

Cath,

Well, Sir; since then Sacred things are otherwise to be regarded, then common and profane; and again, since our Saviour and his Saints may receive testimonies of our Love and Duty, as likewise of Hatred and Scorn, by our very outward behaviour shewed to their Representations; Moreover Since it is that by Representations we are put in mind of Persons and things highly conducing to our happiness, and which we cannot without our great prejudice neglect or forget; and lastly, Since by them the ignorant also may very commodiously be instructed, and likewise good affections may by them be raised in all our minds; Would you rather forsake the Communion of the Church, then, with her, acknowledg, that due honour and Veneration is to be exhibited to them?

Prot.

I have no Scruple to allow thus much.

[Page]Cath.

Then surely you will have less scruple to allow the same Veneration to the very Bodies, Members, or other Relicks of Saints.

Prot.

Be it acknowledged: and proceed.

13. Of Prayer for the Dead, and Purgatory.
§. 99.

Cath.

In the next place we will consider what you object against the Churches Doctrine touching Prayer for the Dead, which implyes a State in them alterable to the better by our Prayers, Alms, &c. for them: Which State is by the Church, called Purgatory. Now it seems to me a wonderful thing that you should quarrel with Gods Church, so as to think Communion with her unlawful, because she is charitable and compassionate to her fellow-members, as she believes, standing in great need of her assistance.

§. 100.

Prot.

That which we principally reprehend in this Practice is, that your Church, without any Warrant from Gods Word, will impose this burthen on us.

Cath.

If you had not dismembred that Book of Scripture which the Church once put into your hands, you would have found this Duty of Prayer and offering Sacrifice for the faithful departed expresly commended2 M [...]cchab. 12. 43, 44. and practised, even by the Iewish Synagogue long before our Saviour came into this world. So that your Argument is like that of your Patriarck Luther, who could not find in Scripture Justification by Works after he had torn the Epistle of St. Iames out of his Book.

§. 101.

Notwithstanding even in your Scripture you find that, no unclean thing can enter into the Kingdom of God. Neither have you any the least ground to believe that Christians full of many unrepented imperfections are perfectly cleansed by Dying: Therefore unless after Death there be a place where they may be purified, you most cruelly thrust them, without hope of redemption, into Hell.

And this you do in contradiction to the greatest Cloud of Witnesses that, I think, ever gave testimony to any Divine Uerity. For besides a world of passages sprinkled in the works of the Holy Fathers among whom some have written Books on purpose to enforce this Charitable Duty towards the Dead, there never was any Church since Christ besides yours, which in their Publick Liturgies did not employ their Devotions and Sacrifices for the comfort and assistance of their Dead Brethern: Yea even your English Liturgy is accused by Presbiterians and Fanatics of the same criminal Charity.

[Page]

§. 102.

And as for the place it self, in which we believe them to be detained, stiled by the Church, Purgatory; what a deal of unnecessary trouble do your Controvertists give themselves in disputing against the fire of Purgatory, and touching the Nature, intention and duration of the pains suffered there: none of which are defined or mentioned in the Churches Decision?

§. 103.

Your partiality is likewise very unreasonable in this matter. For Calvin is by you generally esteemed a Patriark of great Authority among all your Sects; who notwithstanding assigns to the Souls of the Faithful after death a certain place out of Heaven: in which Calvin. Insti. lib. 3. c. 25. §. c. they expect (saith he) the fruition of Glory promised them, so that all things remain in suspence until the coming of our Saviour to Iudgment. Now this so tedious suspension and anxious expectation of an Object vehemently desired, must needs be more grievous then a short suffering in Purgatory, where probably such a delayed expectation makes the principal torment, and where perhaps the sufferings of many, less imperfect Souls, may be less tormenting than some pains suffered in this life. Yet because Calvin will not call this his fancied place, Purgatory, he is Orthodox, and the Church only erroneous. He is Orthodox, teaching in a manner, the very same Doctrine taught by the Church, and yet men can have the conscience to forsake the Church that they may learn her Doctrine abroad in a Shismatioal Congregation.

Prot.

Such partiality truly I cannot approve.

Cath.

These are the Catholic Doctrines mentioned by you as evidently contradicting Scripture, and invented to promote Ambition and Avarice in the Catholic Clergy. And besides these, other Points of Controversie there are, which though not charged with such an imputation, yet are esteemed by you of moment, sufficient to drive you out of Gods Church. Do you think good that we should take notice of these also?

Prot.

Yes.

14. Of Celibacy of Priests.
§. 104.

Cath.

The first then that I will mention shall be the Churches Ordinance touching Celibacy of Priests. It is confessed by us that this is only an Ecclesiastical Constitution: It is also confessed by the most eminent among you, that if your Clergy would submit to such a Constitution, Ecclesiastical affairs would be better ordered. If they say, that all men have not the Gift of Continence; they may be told, [Page] that in case any one of them wants this Gift, why does he intrude himself into the Office of a Spiritual Pastor? Who compels him thereto? Yet withall the same person in his younger days, had the Gift of Continence, whilst he enjoyned a subsistence by a Fellowship in the University; Does then his Approaching to the Altar expel that Gift? or does Ordination make a wife necessary in these latter days only, whereas never any former Christian Church, not in Greece it self, would permit any person, after made a Priest, to marry? Even those very Councils forbad this, which permitted marryed men to receive Priesthood. If therefore there be among them a want of this Gift of Continence, it is their own fault: generally speaking, they want it, because they are unwilling to enjoy it, and will not make use of Prayer, Reading, Abstinence, Solitude, and other means proper to continue it. And will you, Sir, leave Gods Church, because those whom God hath appointed to take care of your soul, have not, neither desire to have Wives?

Prot.

Go on to the next Point.

15. Of abstinence from flesh enjoyned in Fasting.
§. 105.

Cath.

As not in the former Constitution, so neither in this by which the Church commands Abstinence from flesh on days of Fasting, can you have any pretention to impute to our Church, as we may to yours, that she favors carnal affections? In the former, her Clergy imposed on themselves alone the burden of renouncing all, even otherwise lawful, satisfactions to the flesh: And for this you, who are nothing concern'd, will be angry, and forsake a Church because Mortification is practiced by the Pastors in it. In this latter Ordinance she indeed, I mean her Clergy, restrain in some measure the appetites of the Layty, but they do not in the mean time favour themselves. If it were not good for our Souls to abate the intemperance of our Bodies, Ecclesiastics would not afflict themselves by practising it: And if it be good, Laicks are too blame to find fault with it.

§. 106.

However, I cannot judge you so unreasonable as to joyn with your hot-headed Controvertists and Preachers, who for these two Ordinances sake impute to our Church the teaching of the Doctrine 1. Tim. 4. 1. of Devils, in forbiding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats—since it is manifest that these Heretics, of whom Saint Paul prophesied, and which appeared shortly after in the Church, uttterly condemned Marriage in all, as an abomination in it self: and taught [Page] that all Creatures having life are composed of particles of the evil Deity, and therefore to be had in execration. Now, Sir, can you observe any affinity between these Doctrines, and those of the Catholic Church, teaching that Marriage is honourable in all, who are called to it; but yet that Virginity especially in persons consecrated to God, is better: And again, that all Gods creatures are good, and to be received with thanksgiving, but yet on some few days when we are for the good of our Souls to subdue our carnal Lusts, fermenting in our Bodies, it is expedient to abstain from some more nourishing meats, though otherwise in themselves lawful and good?

Prot.

I am sufficiently perswaded Saint Paul never intended you in that Prophesie. And now, Sir, it will not be necessary you should trouble your self about any other Points debated among us: None of which (as neither indeed the two last) being of such moment, as to oblige any one to break from any Churches Communion at all: Since all the Doubts concerning them consist in this, Whether a single Christian may safely judg himself wiser and holyer then the Church.

Cath.

God Almighty establish in your heart a love of his Truth and Peace. And now for a farewel, give me leave to add a few considerations touching the general argument of both our Discourses.

Prot.

I give it willingly.

§. 107.

Cath.

Then, Sir, you may remember how at our last meeting I told you that it was the common artifice of your Controvertists, when they are charged with Schism, to delay the examination of that most important Point, till the Greek Calends, that is, till all other particular Controversies be debated to their satisfaction, which will never be. But now I must alter the expression, and tell you, it is not so much a voluntary artifice, as pure necessity that put them, and you, upon that unreasonable Method.

§. 108.

When a Catholic is examined why he is so, an Answer is readily suggested to him, that it concerns the safety of his Soul to be a member of that Church which from his Creed he learns to be Holy and Catholic: and that the Roman is such, having all the Marks by which the only true Church is characterized in Scripture. He answers, directly to the Question, without comparing particular Tenents of his Church with those of other divided Congregations, which requires much Study and learning beyond the ability of ordinary Catholics: whereas the most simple are unquestionably perswaded of the Authority▪ [Page] of their Church and that keeps them safe in it, against all the captious Objections of Sectaries endeavouring to shake their Faith in particular Doctrines, the justifying of which they leave to their Teachers and Governors.

§. 109.

But a Protestant being examined, Why (for example) he is Member of the Church of England, it never enters into his thoughts to justify his Church by the Marks of Unity, Antiquity, Succession, Universality, &c. nor does he pretend that his Church has any Authority from Christ to oblige him to believe her rather then any Fanatic Congregations; for she her self will not suffer him to say so. What does he then? Truly he leaves his Church in a desperately forlorn condition; he never thinks of her, though she be the only subject of the Question, but diverts his fancy to spy out faults and errors elsewhere, comforting himself with a perswasion that he has found them; though perhaps he be not able to penetrate into, or truly state one Point of Controversie.

And this illogical Method, Sir, you have observed in this Discourse: and as illogical as it is, I am confident you cannot mend it: for doubtless if you could have furnished your self out of your Anti-catholick Writers, or if your self could invent any specious Arguments to recommend to any mans liking, or esteem the Church of which you profess your self a Member, you would not have neglected the doing it; you would not have been quite silent in the only matter which you were concerned to prove.

Now, Sir, I am not desirous to take advantage against you from your past Method of proceeding. Take your own time to think better of it, and if it be your pleasure that we may have a third Meeting, I shall willingly expect a direct Answer to my Question, Why are you still a Protestant?

Prot.

I will through Gods Grace seriously think on this: and I will either provide a satisfactory Answer, as you require, or give you leave to conclude, that my eyes are opened to see the true Catholic Church, of which I will live and dye a faithful Member.

§. 110.

Cath.

Gods Holy Spirit direct you. And be pleased to take this Admonition with you: That unless you can find out a way to demonstrate the Protestant Church, in whose Communion you have hitherto lived, to be a true Member incorporated into that Catholic Church, which (unless the Creed be false) had a being before Protestancy [Page] was heard of, and so continues the same, your Soul is in evident danger, unless you forsake her: It will necessarily follow also (except such a Demonstration can be produced) that; without further examination all those special Doctrines, which you have hitherto triumphed in, as Christian Verities, are certainly illusions and errours, because not professed in the same Catholic Church, which alone1 Tim. 3. 15. is the Pillar and Ground of Truth, and whose Teaching whosoever will not hear (and believe) is, by our Saviours sentence, to be esteemed as Mat. 18. 17. a Heathen and Publican.

§. 111.

And indeed, to deal plainly with you, it was more then you could justly challenge in the present occasion, that I should have the compliance so far, as to attend unto the charges and accusations laid by you against the special Doctrins of the Catholic Church: for such accusations could have no place in an Answer to be made to the Question proposed in the beginning. Indeed if I had now (as may be done another time) precisely imputed Heresie to you, it might have been proper for you to justifie your particular Tenents, and also to recrimimnate. But it was only the Crime of Schism that I laid to the Charge of Protestant Churches, and therefore asked you the Question, Why are you a Protestant? Now to this Question, thus intended, no Answer can be proper but such an one by which you shall endeavour to demonstrate that the Protestant Church, in whose Communion you live, is not Schismatical, that it is not divided from the Catholic Church which never did nor ever shall fail, and that it has all the Marks which declare a Church to be Catholic. This you have not done: and no wonder, Since you can find no help for such a purpose from any of your Writers. And yet till that can be done, all other Disputes are to no purpose, neither can Catholics be obliged to engage themselves in them: or if they do so, it is only to shew you that, being evidently and confessedly Schismatics, you are also Heretics.

§. 112.

Now, Sir, Since I am assured you will find it utterly impossible for you, this way, to excuse any of your lately erected Churches from the guilt of Schism; if still notwithstanding you will resolve to persist divided from that Catholic Church, which has been deserted by them all, my fear is that for the stupifying of your Conscience you will think it necessary to make use of that, lately so cryed up, Socinian Opiat, I mean, that desperate Principle, That Schism is H [...]le's Discourse of Schism. one of those Theological Scar-crows, with which those who hold a party in [Page] Religion use to fright away such as making onquiry into it, are ready to relinquish and oppose it, if it either appear erroneous, or suspicious, Whereas whosoever shall, with a true and unpretended Conscience, perswade himself, or but suspect, that the Church requires a Profession of false Doctrins, or conformity to▪ unlawful Practises, [and of this each particular person must be the Iudge] in s [...]ch a case he not only may, but is, obliged to separate from the Church: and by such Separation not he, but the Church, is guilty of Schism. Now, Sir, is not this Prinoiple a Preservative of soveraign virtue against all remorse of Conscience for Schism or Heresie?

Prot.

But what would you have a man so perswaded, or so suspecting Errours and Misdemeanors to be in the Church, to do?

Cath.

I readily enough grant, that in such a Case the man must neither profess, nor do any thing against his present conscience: And consequently, I do not say, he must separate, but if the Church for his obstinate disobedience shall cast him out, he must be patient. But the truth is, his case is deplorable, for every way he is exposed to extreamest danger. If he conforms against Conscience, he sins mortally by damnable Hypocrisie. If he refuses to conform, that is, to submit his private perswasion, or Suspicion, to the Teaching of the Church [I mean, the Catholic Church] his sin is yet more heynous, being a rebellious Disobedience to the highest and most Divinely established Authority upon Earth, from the guilt of which Disobedience no dictates of consoience, how unpretended soever, can acquit him. Otherwise none but false Hypocrites and subtle pretenders of conscience can be guilty either of Schism or Heresie: yea, the prouder menace, the more self-conceited of their own judgments, and more addicted to entertain suspition and contempt of their Superiors, the more innocent they shall be. So that a full perswasion, or it seems, but suspition that any Heretical Doctrines are Orthodox, will excuse all Heretics, even the most blasphemous, from all guilt and danger, and moreover, at the end of the account the Governours and lawful Teachers appointed by God in his Church, in case the excommunicate such Orthodox Hereticks, must alone be esteemed Heretics and Schismatics, only for teaching Truth and doing their Duty.

§. 114.

Indeed, if he who called Schism a Theological Scar-crow had intended to apply that Expression to single divided Churches, whose birth has perhaps been within mans memory, and particularly to the Church of England (some Fundamental Doctrines whereof, [Page] to my knowledge, he did not assent to, and whose Ecclesiastical Government he did not approve) his Assertion may be justified to be grounded on Reason. For who can tell how a Seperation from any of them can be called Schism; or Tenents contradicting their Heresies? They all mutually favour one another with the Title of Pure Reformed and Sufficiently Orthodox Churches: So that in which soever among them any one shall live, and from which soever of them any one shall think fit to depart, as liking another better, this, according to their common grounds, must be accounted a matter in a manner, indifferent, and however there is in it no danger of incurring the guilt of Schism, so it be done with an unpretended Conscience. It seems therefore to me an Act unjust and unsuitable to the grounds of Pure Reformation in some late Prelatical Writers, who charge with the Crime of Schism their tender Conscienced Orthodox Brethren for deserting their Communion: as it was anciently in the Donatists, those Arch-contrivers of Schisms for doing the same to the Primianists, Maximianists and Rogatists, subdivided Sects, Spawned from them.

It is plain therefore that among all Reformed Congregations, Schism is a meer Scar-crow, and the like may be said of Heresie: And the reason is, because both Heresie and Schism must include an opposition to that Church only which can justly challenge an Authority to determin what Doctrins are true and necessary to be believed by all Christians, and to oblige all under penalty of Anathema's to joyn in her Communion: Which Authority only belongs to the Catholic Church, and which is not so much as pretended to by any Reformed Congregations.

§. 115.

Hence it necessarily follows, that the entertaining a perswasion that the Catholic Church (to which God hath made a Promise that he will lead her into all Truth) is guilty of Errours, can proceedEpi [...] a [...]. Diut. only from an excess of Spiritual Pride: but it is moreover [...], an obstruction of Reason, upon a meer suspicion of such Errors, to esteem one's Self obliged to separate from her Communion. But so pestilent is the Nature of Spiritual Sins, that though all men condemn them, and most men are deeply stained with them, yet not any one can see them in himself. Where shall we find an usurping Oppressor acknowledge himself Covetous? or an ambitious man, proud? So never did any Schismatic say, or think himself Such. He acknowledges that he separates from the Church, and boasts of it, yet he will not endure to be esteemed a Schismatic, as if Sinlurked only in the Greek expression.

[Page]To conclude, Unless you will impute to all the Antient Councils and Holy Fathers of Gods Church not only the utmost extremity of ignorance and folly, but likewise a base partial interessedness, and most execrable Tyranny in denouncing Anathemas against Dissenters and Separatists, you will judge Separation from Catholic Communion to be no vain Theological Scar-crow. Such a sleight Opinion of the harmlesness of Schism was not first branched in this Age. Saint Augustine will inform us, that in his days, There were some who Aug. Epist. 48 said; We thought it made no matter where (that is, in what Communion) we preserved the Faith of Christ: But (saith he) thanks be given to our Lord, who hath gathered us from separation, and hath made manifest to us, that this is a thing pleasing to God, who is One, to be served in Unity. Such horror had those great Lights of the Church of the Crime of Schism, that according to their judgment, even Martyrdom it self cannot cure the deadly poyson of it: And,Dionys. Alex. ap. Euseb. l. 6 Pacian. Epist. 2. that the Martyrdom to which we expose our selves by hindring Schism in the Church, is no less glorious, then that which is suffered for refusing to Sacrifice to Idols: That there cannot possibly be made any Reformation of such importance as the mischief of Schism is pernicious: And in a word, That it cannot possibly be, Iren. l. 4. c. 62. that any one should have a just cause to [...] separate from Catholic Communion. More to this purpose you may find in the Second Section of the Collection of Testimonies out of the Holy Fathers at the end of our former Discourse.Aug. Epist, 48.

Prot.

I well remember them: therefore, if you please, here we may make an end.

§. 116.

Cath.

Farewel, Sir, and pardon the frequent urging of this most necessary Admonition. If I thought you would require it, I could very easily have concluded this Discourse, as I did the former, with a Collection of Testimonies from the Holy Fathers to justifie the Churches Doctrines through all the Points here mentioned. But such a Collection having been the only Subject of many great volumns published by Catholic Doctors, it will be sufficient to refer you to them. I will only desire you to take notice in perusing them, first, That never any such Book has been written by any Protestant. And next, that such Collections have been made by Catholics to shew that their whole Religion, came by descent from the Antient Fathers: Whereas Protestants only upon a particular occasion, Select some obscure, or ambiguous passages from their Writings, with a purpose to cast a mist besore the eyes of unwary Readers that they may so elude the force of those Testimonies far exceeding in number, and more perspicuously evident, produced by Catholics.

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I. Question: Why are you a Catholic? The answer follows. II. Question: But why are you a Protestant? An answer attempted (in vain) / written by the Reverend Father S.C. Monk of the Holy Order of St. Benedict ...

Cressy, Serenus, 1605-1674.

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1686

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— I. Question: Why are you a Catholic? The answer follows. II. Question: But why are you a Protestant? An answer attempted (in vain) / written by the Reverend Father S.C. Monk of the Holy Order of St. Benedict ..., Cressy, Serenus, 1605-1674., Cressy, Serenus, 1605-1674. Why are you a Catholic?.

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[s.n.],. London :: 1686.. (Reproduction of original in Huntington Library.)

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