Certaine reasons (by way of reply to some Objections generally urged and in more particular to a paper styled the case of JOHN GIFFORD Gentleman, presented to the Members of Parliament) why those Iron-works in the Forrest of Deane should be in honour and justice of the House, speedily demolisht, tendered by the preservators of the said Forrest of Deane.
1.IT is very remarkeable that this Parliament in the first Remonstrance of the grievances of this Nation, Dec. 15. 1641. amongst many others, did insist upon this with much resentment that there was a generall destruction of the Kings timber, especially that of the Forrest of Deane, sold to Papists, which they then declared to be the best Storehouse in this Kingdome for the maintenance of Shipping. Now after nine [Page 1] [...] [Page 2]years sitting, when it pleaseth God to divolve the Power and remedy thereof into their own hands, and after much contest and serious debate, upon contrary objections, Petitions and overtures tendered to them, did so positively vote, that the Iron-works within the Forrest of Deane should be demolisht, to keepe them standing by another vote, will seeme strange to them who with infinite satisfaction and content perused and served them in the votes of the 1. of Jan. last past.
2. It will be construed (with all submission neverthelesse to better judgements) an act of very great injustice, that when other works which were built upon the inheritance of private Gentlemen, and none of them (Bishops-wood furnace only excepted) comparably so consumptive to the Forrest timber, that they should be demolished, and those which were the works of the King & Sir John Winter (built upon the Forrest ground and without all contradiction originally intended by the votes aforementioned) kept standing only, when nothing of reason, but pretences and allegations are offer'd to the Parliament [Page 3]and Committee of Revenue, as in the scaning of Captaine Giffords Paper will bee shewed.
3. This worke hath been (by our Progenitors, who were men of publique spirits) intended and drove on for these 50. years and upwards, and in the Queens and the two last Kings reigne severall hopes and overtures were granted, but by the potency of the Court faction, or some eminent interest of private persons) always crost. But now (having order for the positive demolition, and the worke being in so good a forwardnes of perfection) to grant new orders for the continuance thereof, will utterly and for ever dash the hopes, and hearty resolutions of thousands who have been as zealous for, and, proportionably to their estates, greater sufferers for the Parliament then Captain Gifford.
4. It is visible that what the Parliament hath done or shal in altering their resolutions is in a charitable gratification to the insinuations of a private man; now if it shall bee made appeare that they are pretensions rather [Page 4]then reall truths, it is humbly desired they may be examined, before a report of that nature be made, or the judgement of the House abused in procurement of a contrary order; yet whether it may be said to be charitable or honourable, to gratify the desires of one man for his profit or gaine to the apparent losse of the State, and disadvantage of so well deserving a People, is humbly submitted.
5. The Votes of the first of Jan. last past will be rendred of no consequence; for whereas other works already demolisht are disputable whether or no they are comprehended within the order; for these alone to stand, which are (past dispute) clearly meant, will so much make for the Ironmasters, that it will be construed, they now must be kept up by order of the House, But his reasons in his Paper being truly answered, we hope all question of this matter will be laid aside.
The Paper holds forth to consideration severall reasons conteined in these particulars.
1. FIrst he acknowledgeth that in all his contracts, timber was excepted, and the greater part of what he hath coald was timber, as is proved by the Commission returned in the Exchequer, whereby he hath utterly made void the Contract; and what hopes the state may have of his future dealing, is left to judgement.
2. He said he hath two thousand pounds worth of Coale made of the Forrest wood; it is humbly entreated that may be made appeare as well as said; It will be proved that this is a notable collusion, for while he seemingly begs of the Parliament in humillity, he seemingly begs of the Parliament in humillity, he brags in the Country of his policy, making daily contracts for more Coale and wood of private men, while he keeps his small remainder of the Forrest stock unspent, because he will have something to say for himselfe, to make his cause seeme reasonable.
3. Whereas 'tis alleaged his stock of five thousand pound will become wholy uselesse; there is a two fold answer, first he hath no such stock of the state, and therefore they are no way obliged to suffer losse for another mans bargains, secondly the assertion is untrue, for he may have mony for his Wood, Coale or sow-Iron to make him a saver, and for his Oare and Cynders he may have the same vent for them which the Myners themselves have, either by water or the works, of neighbours who usually doe and will buy them.
4. He seemes to take care that those workes (which have beene proved by long experience, to the House, to be the ruin of shipping) shall continnue after the stock spent, whereby it must follow that either, the Informations by Commission or otherwise given to the Parliament have been false, or else the Votes of the House were so ill grounded that they must, for his sake, admit of a contradiction, and for the prizes of Forraigne iron, there are those who will undertake to serve this Nation with as good and as cheape iron as now they have, without consumption of their owne Timber.
5, For his giving security, that is found to be of no value, for when the Contracts have alwaies run that timber should be excepted, yet the goodliest Trees in Europe have fallen to make Coale, and when complaint hath beene made, tis a fallacy very usuall to answer, you must prove who cut them, and we do confidently averre, that as long as the workes stand, those poor Families he seemes to pitty (though they are the most invenomed and bitter enemies to the Parliament, witnes the severall recruits of Sir Jo. Winters Garrisons) will destroy the timber, which he knowes to be true, even while we were acting in the Commission, and if the Cause be not taken away, tis improbable the effect should cease: and who shall the State sue when they cannot proove who cut downe their timber.
6, But for the sadnes of his condition, and his and his friends being ruined, and made prisoners, we say that this is a meere pretence, it will be proved by as [Page 7]able men as Mr. Gifford, that he hath gained many a thousand pound within these few years, and how he should for the future be a loser, when he may be made a saver by his pretended stock, would be inquired, and it is humbly and earnestly intreated, that the truth of this may be lookt into, and those who stand barely for the good of the State may be heard herein, as well as hee who soly intends his own profit, and in this particular doth providently account that to be his losse, which he might by this means gain, though to the dammage and dishonour of the State.
7. And to joyne issue with him, it is humbly referred to every individuall Member of the House, what the progresse of these insinuations may effect; For first it is humbly intreated and granted, that the works may stand till March 25. next for a yeare, and then for ever, as is hinted in his Paper, and then every thing return to its old and wonted way of destruction. The wise Spaniard that knew before 88. that there was not so goodly a plot of shipping timber in the known world, would a little admire at the policie of this Nation, to see it now almost destroyed upon no other account then the enriching of a few papists and private men, who by their power and pretences have alwayes been able to produce reasons to destroy that Country; the consequence and nature whereof was so much heretofore envied by the Mortall enemies of this Nation.
8 That Mr. Gifford might lose three thousand pounds at Cyrencester would be controverted, though not denyed, but if he hath gained 6. thousand in the [Page 8]Forrest, we believe he is not so much to be pittyed as those who having lost an hundred thousand in those parts, did never receive that pay which he and his son hath, and yet their losses are so far from being audited or stated, that they are out of all hopes of reparation, though their hearty affections to the Parliament were as eminent as his. Neither is it a good argument of his affection to them, to insist so urgently upon the standing of those works, which his private judgement must needs informe him, is so much inconsistent with their profit or honour.