AND now all may see what Francis Houlcroft and Joseph Oddey have said and given under their own Hands, and sent abroad in Print, which if I should have reported of them, and not have had it under their own Hands, they would without all question have denyed their own words, as they have already done what they spake before many Witnesses at that Meeting at Thriploe, which will witness to their Faces, that the Account which we have published in Print, concerning their Words and Carriages is true: And now see their own Words, which I have here faithfully set down, and collected out of their own Books, which is as fol­loweth.

Page 1. sayes Francis Holcraft and Joseph Oddey, The for­ged Lyes of a late Pamphlet of theirs.

Reply, But F. H. and J. O. you had been wiser and hone­ster if you had proved it so to be, before you had published it so; for we still affirm the Truth of it, and there are three of our Names to it, and you have not yet proved the contrary; [Page 4] and we whose Names are here subscribed do promise, if the Lord permit to give us Life and Health, To give you another Meeting at any Time or Place, which may be equally agreed upon between us, to maintain and prove all that Relation to be true, that we have before published in Print, before any People that may come to hear it, which we desire may be be­fore the time of these Citations of J. O. in pag. 14. who would put us off unto the Day of Judgment.

• Samuel Cater,
• John Web,
• Jacob Baker.

And now I shall take notice of your words, as you have set them down, and sent them abroad in Print. And I do tell you, that I am glad that you have thus appeared, whereby you are further made manifest. And as for your Railing a­gainst me, and Miscalling of me and the rest of us, who be­lieve in the true Light, which God hath made manifest to our Souls, for the leading and guiding of us in the Way of Life; its little matter to us, only this, its an Evidence of Salvation to us, and that of God; for it was ever the Portion of God's Servants and Children to be Reviled and Evil spoken on by those that hate the Light, and live in Darkness.

Pag. 3. Lin. 4. F. H. When I came near the Barn, where these People were met, I heard one speaking, and I made a stay, without resolving that I would not go in till he had teased his Ser­vice of his False Christ, the Light that is in all men, a New God, which neither we nor our Fathers have known.

Rep. First, 'Tis to be taken notice of, how this man knew or understood what it was that our Friend did declare to the People at that time, seeing he would not come into the House until he had done speaking: But however, he is resolved to give Judgment against him, contrary to that equal Law which judgeth no Man until he is heard.

But further, Here thou art judged out of thy own Mouth [Page 5] to be in the Steps of thy Fore-fathers the Pharisees, who said concerning Christ unto the Blind Man, whom Christ had open­ed his Eyes, As for this Fellow we know not whence he is, John 9.29. so sayest thou now concerning God and Jesus Christ, which the Scripture fully declares to be the true Light, and which l [...]ghteth every man that cometh into the World; a God (sayest thou) which neither we nor our Fathers have known; in this thou hast spoken the Truth, which I believe concerning thee, and all such as thou art, who hate the Light, and love Darkness. O! blush and be ashamed, thou Vain Babler and Unprofitable Talker, who sayest, thou art O [...]e of the Ele [...], and callst thy self, a Minister of Christ, and yet knowest nei­ther the Father nor the Son, who is Light, and in him is no Darkness at all. And now thou Blind Guide, that walkest in Darkness, and knowest not whither thou goest, nor wher [...] ­of thou dost affirm: Read the Testimony of the True Mini­sters of Christ, whom thy Fore-fathers, the Pharisees, com­manded to preach no more in the Name of Jesus, 1 John 1.5. the words are these, This is the Message which we have heard of him and declare unto you, that God is Light, and in him is no Darkness at all. Vers. 6. If we say, we have Fellowship with him, and walk in Darkness, we lye, and do not the Truth; but if we walk in the Light, as he is in the Light, we have Fel­lowship one with another, and the Blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all Sin: which Scriptures already are suffici­ent to convict thee, and to manifest thy gross Darkness and Ignorance of the true God and Jesus Christ, and all else that are of thy Mind; but I do desire, thou mayst come to see thy self, and to know the Darkness and Blindness that thou art in, and however I may be clear of thy Blood, and thy Folly made manifest to all, I shall not spare my Pains to endeavour to do thee good for the Evil thou hast rendred unto me, and the rest of my Friends, who from time to time hast made it thy Business to Rail of us, and to render us and the Truth that we profess Odious; and this thou knowest we can prove to thy Face, and shal [...] d [...] it if the L [...]r [...] give [...]s an Opportunity. And now read what is said in the Holy Scriptures of Christ, which [Page 6] thou nor all the cunning Crafts-men that the old Serpent makes use of to with-stand the Universal Appearance of God's Grace and Light to all men in this the Day of his Love, can do. Joh. 1.4. In him is Life, and the Life was the Light of Men: Vers. 9. Which was sent to bear witness of that Light, that was the True Light, that lighteth every Man that cometh into the World; which is spoken of Christ. 2 Cor. 4.6. God that commanded the Light to shine out of Darkness, hath shined in our Hearts, to give the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Iesus; and this is the True God and Christ, that we believe in, and turn People unto, who hath shined by the Power and Coming of his Heavenly and Divine Light into our Hearts and Souls, whereby he hath made us to inherit Comfort; whereby we see the Scripture is fulfilled, The People that sate in Darkness have seen a Great Light, and those that sate in the Regions and Shadow of Death, unto them Light is sprung up, Mat. 4.16. whereby we see the fulfilling of the Prophet Isaiah's Prophecy, Isa. 60.19. The Sun shall be no more thy Light by Day, nor for Brightness shall the Moon give Light unto thee, but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting Light, and thy God thy Glory; and this Light is the Way that the Holy Men of God travailed in, though thee and thy Fore-fathers know it not, saith Solomon, The Path of the Just is as the shining Light, &c. Prov. chap. 4. ver. 18. Isa. chap. 2. ver. 5. O House of Jacob, come ye and let us walk in the Light of the Lord; and Christ saith, I am the Way, and there is none comes to the Father but by me, who saith also, I am the Light of the World; and this is the Way that the true Ministers of Christ turned People unto, and were made Ministers of, Acts 26.23. to open their Eyes, & to turn them from Darkness to Light, &c. that by it they might see their Way out of Sin and Evil, and to know their Feet guided in the Way of Peace, Luke 1.79. which Light and Truth was that which the Prophets prayed for, Psalm. 43.3. O send out thy Light and thy Truth, let them lead me, let them bring me unto thy Holy Hill, and to thy Tabernacle, Psalm. 36.19. For with thee is the Foundation of Life, in thy Light shall we see Light: And now thou [Page 7] that makest it thy Business to cry out against the Quakers Light, whose Light is God, and Christ, and the Truth, and Way to Life to so many as walk therein, and are guided thereby; for this I can say, and my Conscience beareth me witness that I ne­ver preached nor declared any other Light to be the Way of Life then the true God and Jesus Christ, which the Scriptures of Truth largely witness to be so, as I have here proved; and thou that say'st, this God and Christ that lighteth all Men, that the Quakers preach, is a God that neither you nor your Fathers have known; whereby you have manifested your gross Dark­ness and Ignorance, both of the true God and Jesus Christ, whom to know is Life Eternal; and if I should say no more of this thy railing envious Piece of Confusion, which thou and thy Brother Oddey have sent abroad, you are largely made mani­fest to be in that State which you say the Quakers are in, who preach another God, another Jesus, and are of another Spirit then what the Prophets and Apostles were of, who said, God is Light, and Christ is the true Light that lighteth every Man that cometh into the World, and this the God that thou say'st neither you nor your Fathers have known; and I do tell you that I do believe that you speak Truth in that, and do judge you out of your own Mouthes to be in their Steps that crucified Christ, of whom he said, These Things they do because they know not the Father nor me: And this I can truly say, not­withstanding all your railing Words and unsavoury Speeches concerning me, I desire that the Lord may give you Repen­tance of your Abuses offered against Christ and his Appearance, that so you may come to have the Benefit of his Request unto his Father, Father forgive them, for they know not what they do; for I hope your Envy manifested against us and the Truth which we profess, is more out of Ignorance then Wilfulness, which if so, I des [...]re the Lord may open your Eyes, that you may come to see what you are doing of.

Page 3. thou say'st, That thou offeredst to prove that the Qua­kers preached another Jesus, and had received another Spirit and another Gospel then what was preached by the Apostles.

Rep. We acknowledge thou said'st so then, and now tellest [Page 8] us as much in thy Book, but thou didst not go about to prove it then, neither hast thou done it now, so that it is sooner said then proved; and thy pittiful Shift to eva [...]e the proving of what thou hast promised is already in Print, which was, to ask us whether we owned the true Christ, yea or nay? to which then I did freely confess, and have m [...]re largely now confest my Faith and Belief and Hope of Salvation to be in the true God and Jesus Christ, whereby it appears thy Accusation against me and the rest of my Brethren is false, and that you are the Men that preach another Gospel, and are out of the Faith that was once delivered unto the Saints, whose Faith stood in the Light and Power of God, which was and is the Author of the true Faith, and the Finisher in all those that continue therein, which Faith gives Victory over the World, and gives Power and Cou­rage to follow the Lord as faithfully, and confess Christ as o­penly in Times of Suffering and Persecution, as in Times of the greatest Freedom and Liberty, which Faith hath been made manifest by our Fruits to be in and amongst us ever since we have been a People, whereby it appears that good Daniel's Spirit is revealed in & amongst us, who would not so much as shut his Windows to shun Persecution, but prayed as openly as he did at other Times.

Page 3. thou say'st, One of the Quakers said to a Friend of thine, that the Body of Christ consumed in the Grave, as others do.

And Francis, why didst not thou set down the Name of that One thou speakest of, whereby we might have known who it had been; for until thou dost, I do charge it upon thee as a false Accusation, as knowing it to be none of us that said so, neither doth it agree with our Principles; and thou knowest that I have confessed otherwise in Print to thy Shame.

Again page 3. F. H. saith, Although I have desired that some few might speak, yet the Men and Women let loose their Tongues at their Pleasure, some railing and gnashing on us with their Teeth.

Rep. But Francis, why hast thou not set down the Names of those that did so; Oh shameless Man! to publish such Lyes in Print; [Page 9] dost thou think to hide thy self under this pitiful Covering? but Francis, I have not yet forgot thine and thy Brother Odde's rude Speeches and unsavoury Carriages, some of which are already in Print, what he said at his coming in and going out of the Meeting, calling us Dogs, Dogs, and Vipers too.

In page 4. Francis saith, Know you Deceivers that many already see by the Light of the Word of God, and many I hope more daily shall, that these are no slanders, but a faithful wit­nessing given by us against you.

Reply, And to prove us Deceivers, he tells us of some of his Brethren, he calls Ministers, have writ Books against us, which Books have been already answer'd by us, and their dark Works detected; but Francis, if thou wast not wholly in Darkness, thou would'st see thy Folly, in taking this Way to prove the Matter; for if this be the only Way to prove thee and thy Brethren Deceivers, then remember how many Books have been published in Print with our Names to them, against you Hireling Priests & Envious Professors these twenty Years, whereby you have been marked out by your Fruits and Do­ctrines to be apostatized from the true Faith and Practice of the true Apostles and Ministers of Christ, and are discovered thereby to be walking in the Steps of the false; in whose Steps I number you, who appear to be Enemies to the true Light.

Page 5. F. H. saith, He is falsly reported of to have said and affirm, that every one is enlightned with the Light of Christ is cursed Idolatry; and again, he is falsly reported to say, that every one is enlightned I grant, but not with the Light of Christ.

Reply, But F. H. art not thou ashamed thus to tell Lyes in Print, and to deny that which thy Tongue spake then in the hearing of many Witnesses, and which thy Hand here hath set down, whereby thou contradictest thy self; for say'st thou at the very following Words, by which thou chargest us for wronging of thee in saying, that the Light of Christ is cursed idolatry, say'st tho [...]. What the Idolatry is you shall hear more largely, whereby thou hast acknowledged the Charge.

Again page 5. F. H. saith, Thus I constantly affirm, that all [Page 10] Men are by Christ, who is the true God and Eternal Life, en­lightned with the Light of Nature; of which you shall hear more hereafter, and what he saith of this Christ, which he saith gives unto all Men a Natural Light.

Page 5. S. C. asks what is it then that they are enlightned with? F. H. A Creature: S. C. What Kind of Creature, &c. passing by your absurd asking whether it be a Man or a Beast? I answer, I said Deceivers, that the Light in all Men is cre­ated, &c.

Rep. I shall place this to thy Account, which increaseth thy Lyes and Slanders of the Innocent; for thou didst say that the Light was a Creature, and now thou say'st that the Light in all Men is created; but what Advantage thou hast gotten by tel­ling this Lye, and altering thy Word from a Creature to Cre­ated, I cannot see, except it be to abuse us by thy Lyes, whose Reward will be according to thy Work, if thou repentest not. And whereas thou say'st, That we rend thee, or rail on thee be­cause thou wilt not blaspheme the true God with the Quakers, and term the Light that is in all Men by Nature is the one Jehovah: I say, this is a false Accusation, and to call the Light that light­eth every Man that cometh into the World Natural, is gross Darkness, and are thy Words, and not ours, nor Scripture-Words; for we say and affirm, that Light that shineth in and unto every Man, and which gives him the Knowledge of what is good, and what is evil, is pure and spiritual, and comes from God, who is a Spirit.

Page 6. F. H. saith, Col. 1.27. To whom God will make known what is the Riches of the Glory of this Mystery amongst the Gentiles, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory; this (saith he) they prophainly with daubing Flattery apply to all men, and the Light that is in all men, this is Christ in them all, the Hope of Glory.

Rep. Here thou hast ignorantly or willingly belyed us; for we never did fo say or affirm, that the Light of Christ, that shines and appears unto all Men, is Salvation unto all, or the Hope of Glory in all; for many there be that are condemned by it, because they hate it, and as Christ saith, will not bring [Page 11] their Deeds unto it, because their Deeds are Evil, Joh. 3.19, 20. So that the Light of Christ is the Hope of Glory in them that believe in it, and obey it, which is according to Simeon's Te­stimony, a Light to lighten the Gentiles, and the Glory of thy People Israel, Luke 2.32.

Page 6. F. H. saith, Another Scripture they bring to set up their false God, is Rom. 10.8. The Word is nigh in thy Heart and in thy Mouth, that is the Word of Faith which we preach; this they compare with John 1. and from these Words here spoken of, is Christ the Word, who was in the Beginning, Christ the Light, who is God, who is, they say, in the Heart of every man.

Rep. Now Francis if thou were not wholly in Darkness, thou would'st not thus manifest thy own Shame, and give me so fair an Opportunity to lay open thy Weakness unto all People, but the Day is come, in which the Secrets of all Hearts are to be made manifest, and the hidden Things of Esau sought out, and the Lord is uncovering the Skirts of the Whore, and strip­ping her of all her various Dresses, and uncovering the Naked­ness of her and her Merchants; and now at the Light of this glorious Day the Heathens rage, and the People that live in Darkness are angry; and now consider thy own Confusion, who art speaking against us for accounting that to Christ, or the Appearance of Christ, which is spoken of Rom. 10. now read what the Scriptures say, and see if thou canst make any Thing else of it, without wresting of the Scriptures, but Christ and his spiritual Appearance to the Heart and Soul of Man: B [...] the Righteousness which is by Faith speaketh on this wise, say not in thy Heart, who shall ascend into Heaven, that is, to bring Christ from above, or who shall descend into the Deep, that is, to bring Christ again from the Dead, but saith it, the Word is nigh thee, even in thy Heart, &c. And John 1. In the Be­ginning was the Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God, &c. And so we declare it to be, as we have received it, even as the Scriptures testifie of it; and whosoever receives this Word and Light into their Hearts, and continue therein, it will bow their Hearts unto the true and living God, [Page 12] and keep them from following or worshipping any false God, and they shall and do fear following such Teachers, who cry, Lo here is Christ, or lo there is Christ, in Carnal Ordinance, or in Outward Observation; but through waiting upon God in the Exercise of their Hearts and Minds with this precious Light and Word of Faith, they know it to be unto them as it was unto David, a Light unto their Feet, and a Lamp unto their Paths.

As concerning G. F. the Younger and William Smith, whom I knew very well, and have this Testimony to bear for them, that they were faithful Men in their Day, and were well accom­plished with Wisdom, Zeal and Courage, to declare God's Truth, and to publish the blessed Gospel, as they had received of the Lord, and were not ashamed nor afraid to confess Christ to be the true Light before Men, whose Testimony we own.

Page the 7. Line 1. F. H. saith, Be astonished O ye Heavens and be ye utterly frighted! rend your Hearts, and not your Gar­ments, that hear these and the like Blasphemies, which fills the Books and Speeches of this Generation, who cloa [...]h their false Christ and cursed Idol, the Light, which is in all men by Nature with the secret Names and divine Attributes, &c.

Rep. Now mark this Man's Deceit and Baseness towards us and the precious Truth of our God, which we profess, which is pure and spiritual, and comes from God the Father of Spi­rits and Light, and is the same Yesterday, to Day and forever, God blessed forever, which he calls a Natural Light, and a Cursed Idol (saith he) the Light in all Men; if this Man was not darkened with Envy and Malice, he would never manifest so much Madness as he doth; and to be revenged of us he rails and blasphemes against the true God and Jesus Christ; for mark all that read these Lines, which are his own Words, saith he, Who cloath their false Christ and cursed Idol, the Light, which is in all men: And now see what John s Testimony is of Christ, John 1.9. the Words are these, That was the true Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the World, and again John 8.12. And this is the God and Christ whom thou hast cursed, [Page 13] which is a Light in all Men, whereby thou hast manifested by thy Words, that the Spirit of God doth not dwell in thee; For no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed, 1 Cor. 12.3. Now if this Man thinks that he hath not called Jesus accursed, let him tell us, setting God and Christ aside, what it is that is Light in all Men, or doth give Light unto all Men; let us see what he saith with his own Tongue, and writes with his own Hand of Christ, page 5. Line 16. saith he, I constantly affirm, that all men are by Christ, who is the true God and Eternal Life, enlightned with the Light of Nature, which saith he in page 7. is a cursed Idol: And thus his Confusion is made manifest, and he to be one of the Merchants of Baby­lon.

Rep. He saith in Page 5. of our Book, he pretended plainly to confess the Christ; but he tells us, that he will not believe me; and then asks, Whether the Virgin Mary's Son be the Christ that we preach? he answers his own Question, and saith, No, like his Brother Thomas Hi [...]ks, who made a Dialogue, feigning and pretending of A Discourse between a Christian and a Quaker, which in Truth and Reality was no such mat­ter, but himself stated what Question he pleased, and an­swered them how he would: but this know, both Presbyteri­ans and Baptists, and all others which combine together against the Truth, and to withstand the Appearance of God in this the Day of his Power; and although Hand joyn in Hand, yet the Wicked shall not go unpunished: And I tell thee, Thou hast made an ungodly Answer for us; but however, I have in that and in this, made a true Confession of my Faith in Christ, and have the Evidence of a Good Conscience in what I have done, and whether thou [...]r any other, who envieth me for the Truth's sake, will believe me or not, that is little matter to me.

F. H. asks a Question, pag. 6. What say you of John 17.1. These words spake Jesus, and lift up his Eyes to Heaven?

Rep. I say, it was well in Christ, who was and is in Heaven, John 3.13. but that is no Proof, that every Pharisee that imi­tates him doth well, or is accepted: Remember what Christ saith of thy Brother Pharisee who justified himself, and was [Page 14] condemned of Christ, but the poor Publican would not so much as lift up his Eyes to Heaven, but smote upon his Breast, saying, God be Merciful to me a Sinner; I tell you, saith Christ, this Man went down to his House rather justified.

Pag. 11. F. H. saith, S. C. tells another notorious Lye, that these men had declared, That some Children before they were born were in a State of Damnation. And this makes way for another Abominable Lye, where he brings in Mr. Oddey, All fell in Adam, and so Children before they are born are Vessels of Wrath and for Destruction. We testifie the Truth, that we never said that any Children before they were born, or any else, were in a state of Damnation, till with Dives they lift up their Eyes in Hell.

Rep. As to thy soul Mouth and bitter Speech, saying, I Lye, in those two Passages that I have related of your words and Doctrine that you say and preach, That some Children are in a state of Damnation, or guilty of Condemnation before they are born; that I know, and am able to prove, if you had de­nyed it; but Joseph Oddey hath confessed it, as I shall make it appear, so that your Railing against me is manifest to be out of Envy, and to cover your selves to the People: For you have preached that in the dark, which you are ashamed should be brought to the Light; and thinking to cover thy self, thou run­nest into another Extream, and sayst, We testifie the Truth, that we never said that any Children, before they were born, or any else; were in a state of Damnation, till with Dives they lift up their Eyes in Hell. What Mad Bedlam Stuff is this? Was ever the like heard of by one that would be called a Mi­nister of Christ, and doth not know that the Vessels of Wrath are fitted for Destruction, through Disobedience and Rebelli­on against God, before they be cast into Hell? But Franc [...], remember thy self, Didst thou never say, That none were Damned, nor in a state of Damnation? How often have you pronounced that Sentence, There remains no more Sacri­fice for Sin, but a certain fearful looking for of Judgment and fiery Indignation of the Lord against Henry Bostock? And how much hast thou said l [...]ss of the Quakers in general? Whereby [Page 15] it appears, how thou contradictest thy self pag. 8. Thou pre­tendest Grief for thy Country-men, who, sayest thou, flee from the Antichrist, the Whore of Babylon, and falls into the Pit of the Damnable Heresie of this Antichrist the Quakers. Now, can any be led by a Damnable Principle, and they at the same time not in a State of Condemnation? O gross Darkness! And doth not Christ say, This is the Condem­nation, that Light is come into the World, and Men love Darkness? And doth not the Scripture say, He that believeth not is condemned already? But saith F. H. There is none in a state of Damnation, until with Dives they lift up their Eyes in Hell. O great Confusion and Contradiction, and contrary to the Scripture of Truth.

Pag. 13. F. H. saith, He brings me in reading, the Grace of God, that brought Salvation, hath appeared unto Men; leaving out the word All, which I testifie in God's Sight to my best Know­ledge is utterly Falshood.

Rep. A pitiful Shift indeed to cover thy Deceit, but alto­gether too short to do it: What dost thou and thy Brother Od­dey cry out against me for belying thee in this Matter, in say­ing, thou readst it wrong, Tit. 2.11. and left out the word All, and now bringest no Witness to prove me a Lyar? nay, far short of that; for thou hast not here affirmed it thy self, that thou read the Scripture as it is, but sayst, To the best of thy Knowledge thou didst; but yet, while thou art giving an Ac­count of the Matter, thou tellst us, That thou dost not use to read that Scripture as it is: But Francis, in the Light that that thou hatest art thou comprehended, and thy Subtilty seen, and thy Deceit made manifest. And I tell thee again, I can prove it to thy Face, that to be true which I have charged thee withal, in that Matter, although thou hast willingly forgotten it; and further, it appears by thy own words, which thou hast here published in Print, that what I have said of thee is true, whereby there needs no further Witness then what I have from thee and thy Brother Oddey, under your Own Hands.

Pag. 13. Read his own words which are these, whereby all [Page 16] may see what Cause this man hath to Rail at me for saying the Truth, that he left out the word All, excepting this, they would not have their Hearers and others know what wicked Perverters they are of the holy Scriptures; pag. 13. lin. 15. his words are these, Now take All Men here for Every Parti­cular, I have thought it not agreeing to the Analogy and Rule of Faith to say, The Grace of God that brings Salvation hath ap­peared or shined on All Men.

Rep. But Francis, what Faith is thine, that doth not allow thee to believe the Scriptures of Truth to be true or sound, as they are declared by the Holy Ghost that dwelt in them that spake them, as it is written, 2 Pet. 1.21. For the Prophecy came not in Old Time by the Will of Man, but Holy Men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. May not I and others that read thy words justly judge thee out of thy own Mouth, that thou art the Man, and art in that State that thou sayest of the Quakers, and canst not prove it, neither by our Words or Writings; but thou art apostatized from the true and living Faith, that was once delivered to the Saints: For the Apostle saith, Titus 2.11. For the Grace of God, that brings Salvation, hath appeared unto all men, and further, it is said, 1 Tim. 2.4. where it is said, God would have all men to be saved, and come to the Knowledge of the Truth. And thou sayst, that it doth not stand with thy Rule of Faith: whereby it appears that thou art not of the Apostles Faith; for if thou wast in their Faith, thou wouldst own and believe their words to be more certain to be the Mind of God then thy Thoughts: But I tell thee, thou Merchant of Babylon, Thy Corrupt Thoughts have deceived thee in this weighty Matter, and the Enemy of thy Soul hath blinded thee, as he hath in several o­ther things concerning us: But how should we expect better from thee, but Wresting and Perverting our Words, when thou art so much in the dark as to tell us in print, That to read and take the Apostles words as they are spoken, doth not agree with thy Rule of Faith; whereby it plainly appears, thou hast not the Faith of God's Elect, for if thou hadst, thou wouldst be of the same Mind th [...] [...]ey were in.

Pag. 13. F. H. saith these words, I say, in the Fear of Je­hovah, all you that believe or fear no New or Strange Gods, no False Christ, not this False Christ of the Quakers, that Light that is in all men.

Rep. It was alwayes the Way and Practice of Deceivers in all Ages, to labour to keep the People in Darkness and Blind­ness, and ignorant of the Appearance of the true and living God, as God is pleased to appear and manifest himself unto the Sons and Daughters of men, for the saving of their Souls, and the Way by which they carry on their Ungodly W [...]rks, was the Way that this our Adversary and Enemy of the Ap­pearance of the true God and Jesus Christ in our Day now ta­keth; whereby he is manife [...]ted by his Fruits to be in the Steps of his Fore-father [...], who envy d the lust, who said, that which was really True was False, and that which was God was a Devil, and that whi [...]h was of God, and came from God, to be of the Devil, whereby they stirred up the People that followed them and believed them to envy the Prophets, and in their Envy, [...]age and Fury the Priests had stirred them up unto, to persecute Christ, although the Scriptures bear Testimony very plainly, that he was the true Messiah and Saviour of the World, yet they would call him a Deceiver, and those that were Followers of him, and Believers in his Name deceived by him; and so said of him, He deceived the People: And thus doth F. H. now, who treads in the Steps of his Fore Fathers, the High P [...]iests, who calls the True Christ a False Christ; and those that believe in his Name, and are led and guided by his Heavenly and Spiritual Light, which is the Way of Life, to be deceived and Deceivers.

F. H. saith, pag. 13. towards the latter-end of his Book, And know Deceivers, though you tell us a Thousand Times over, that you own Jesus of Nazareth, till you repent, and renounce you [...] False Christ, the Light in all men, till you CAST THAT YOUR IDOL TO THE BATS AND MOLES, WE WILL LOOK UPON YOU AS DECEIVERS.

Rep. Herein thou hast manifested thy self to be of that Ge­neration who said to Christ, Come do [...] [...]m the Cross, and we [Page 18] will believe thee; and commanded the Apostles, that they should preach no more in the Name of Jesus: And thou sayst, Till we cast away the Christ which is the Light in all men, thou wilt not believe us; which Christ is the true Christ, that light­eth all men, and witnessed so to be by the Scriptures of Truth, spoken by the Prophets, and Jesus Christ himself, and the ho­ly Apostles, which I have before largely proved, and in whose Light the Church of Christ had Fellowship one with another, 1 John 1.7. And its said by the Apostle, That they that say they have Fellowship with God, and walk in Darkness, they lye, and do not the Truth; amongst whom I number thee, who hast manifested so much Envy against the Light, and the Servants of it, and tells us, until we cast that away, namely, Christ, the Light, which is the Guide and Way to Heaven, as before I have proved, you will look upon us as Deceivers; that we cannot help; but I say, the more is the pity, that thou or any man should be so overcome, and led captive by the Power of Darkness, that you will not own us nor our Testimony, unless we will deny the true God and Jesus Christ: I tell thee, Fran­cis, thou hast set us too dear a Price for us to give you, for your Approbation of us; nay, although you had as much to proffer as your Master the power of Darkness proffered Christ, if he would fall down and worship him: I hope neither I, nor any one amongst us; who loves the Light, and believes therein, and hath seen and felt how good the Lord hath been unto our Souls, thereby shall ever so deny the Lord that bought them, as in casting away so precious a pearl as this Heavenly and Divine Light of Christ, which hath ever been and yet is to all them that believe in it, and no man ever was nor can be truly happy with­out they believe in it and obey it, which thou sayest we must cast away; but I tell thee, that if thou dost expect it, thou art mista­ken; and thy Eyes will sink in their Holes, and thy carnal Ima­ginations will rot in thy Head, before thou seest that, That ever a People should turn from the Light and Truth of God, made manifest in our Hearts and Consciences, for the purifying of our Hearts and saving of our Souls, to turn unto your dark Imaginations, who are such bitter Enemies unto the Light, [Page 19] which gives the Knowledge of God, and r veals the Mysteries of Life unto all them that believe therein, 2 Cor. 4.6. Now I testifie, That Widdowhood and Loss of Children must be the Portion of all you Professors, as it hath been ever since we have been a People, to bear Testimony unto the blessed and spiritual Appearance of God in the Light of his dear Son. And I am not without Hope, that some that are late turned from you and your dark Imaginations, are and will be the more confirmed in this precious Truth, unto which their Minds are turned; and that those that yet sit under your Dark and Confused Teaching, who hate the Light, and are Reproach­ers and Railers against the Lovers of it, may thereby be a­wakened to consider what they are a doing, in following such Teachers, who are against the True Light and Universal Love of God held forth to all men thereby; for there is but Light and Darkness, and they that hate the Light, must needs be in Darkness: And the Apostle John saith, They that walk in Darkness, they lye, and do not the Truth.

Now, I would have all People take notice, that F. H. doth not Rail against us for Darkness, and express his Envy against us as being led by the power of Darkness; for he intitles us that, and saith, the Quakers God and Christ, as you may see all along in his Book, the Light that is in All Men, which the Scripture witnesseth to be the True God and Jesus Christ, which I have before proved by the Scriptures; only this I would have all People take notice of, which I have hinted at before, which is the Practice of him and all such Blind G [...]ides as he is, to call that which is True, False; and that which is really True he calls False, and that which is the True Light he calls Darkness: For there is nothing that giveth Light to every Man, but the True God and Christ; and thus he puts Light for Darkness? whereby it appears, according to the Scriptures, he is under the Wo, Isa. 5.20.

And now I shall take a little Notice of what Joseph Oddey saith, page 14. who writes to one Samuel Cater, a Deceiver amongst the Quakers, who at that Meeting at Thriploe: And for what he hath said now in this Paper, he deserveth just Re­proof [Page 20] for his rude and unsavoury Words, which do not become a Man that professeth himself to be a Minister of Christ.

Rep. And now J. O. I do tell thee, that the Light of Christ t [...]at I, with many more, have received, teacheth us not to render Evil for Evil, nor Railing for Railing; but contrarywise, to speak the Truth in Soberness, and with sound Words to de­monstrate and declare the Truth as it is in Jesus: And now thou hast called me a Deceiver, which is a false Accusation, and thou might'st better have left it until thou hadst proved me so, which thou nor thy Brother could not do, although pro­mised to do it; and thou called'st us a Generation of Vipers, and said'st, Thou would'st prove us so to be before you went away, and did'st not then do it, so that it appears it is an easier Matter to cast Reproaches and Slanders upon a People, then it is to prove it when you have done: But Joseph, thou manifests by thy Fruit what Spirit rules thy Heart; for saith the Scripture, An Evil Man out of the Evil Treasure of his Heart brings forth Evil Things, from that cometh Railing, and Evil-speaking, and Backbiting.

Page 14. he pretends to examine me with what Face I could say that his Brother Holdcraft did not read the Scripture right, Tit. 2.11. The Grace of God that brings Salvation hath appear­ed unto Men, and that he left out the Word ALL, and impu­dently said, it was not in the Greek; can this be a bare mistake in thy self and others.

Rep. I say no, it is no Mistake, we do still affirm the same to be true of him, as we have published, and there are three of our Names to it, and many more will witness it to your Faces to be true, if an Opportunity be afforded; and further, there was a Man that at the same time when Francis said, that the Word ALL was not in the Greek as it is in our Books, re­proved him, and asked him why he brought his Bible hither if it were wrong translated, a Man that stood by as a Hearer, well known in the Country to be a Man of Estate and Credit, who was not then, nor is now one with us in Principle or Practice.

Page 14. How J. O: proves that I have belyed his Brother Holdcraft, saith he, I stood next him on the one side, had my [Page 21] Hearing through God's Goodness, I think I may say as well as you, could this be, and I not hear it? I forgot not wholly the Conten­tion with Mr. Holdcraft about the altering of the Reading of it from what it is ordinarily in our English Bibles.

Rep. Here thou hast granted that thou knowest that he did not read it as it is in our Bibles, whereby thou hast contradicted him, who saith, he read it no other Way then it is in our Bibles, and thus these two Brethren in Iniquity contradict and confound one another.

But saith J. O. I call God for a Record upon my Soul, that I know nothing of this you say.

But Joseph, I must tell thee, I do greatly question whether thou now speakest Truth or no, but however I shall leave that to God and thy own Conscience.

But if this be true, thou dost say that thou knowest nothing of it, hast thou done wisely to call me a Lyar for saying that that I know to be true, and have several Witnesses to prove it, and thou say'st, thou know'st nothing of it; then I tell thee thou had'st been wiser and honester if thou had'st held thy Tongue, and now tellest us, thou thinkest thou had'st thy Hear­ing as well as I, &c.

This is like thy Brother, who saith in page 3. observing as I thought in some of these People that Lightness, &c. and page 13. where F. H. speaks concerning the Grace of God, Now take all men here for every particular man, I have thought it not agreeing to the Rule of Faith; I tell you both that your Thoughts have deceived you, and your Folly is made manifest; and whereas you thought to have done proudly, in exalting your Names and dark Imaginations above the Light and Truth of God, and to have insulted over them that believe therein, and are led and guided thereby, your Weakness is thereby made manifest, and your Deceit laid open.

Page 14. Joseph Oddey saith, I appeal to all that were present whether any such Thing was spoken, only I desire to know their Names.

According to his Desire here is a Testimony under the Hands of some of them that were there, and many more remember [Page 22] the same, and are also ready to witness it, if there were Need for it.

This we testifie whose Names are here under-written, who were Eye and Ear-Witnesses to what was said at the Meeting at Thriploe, the 15th Day of the 2d Moneth, 76. that Francis Holdcraft, when he read Tit. 2.11. left out the Word ALL, and said it was not in the Greek.

• John Harvey,
• John Claydon,
• John Butcher,
• Giles Waklen,
• Samuel Reader,
• John Salmon,
• Richard Web,
• Matthew Duy,
• Jonathan Johnson,
• Henry Bostock,
• John Cathen,
• John Love,
• Thomas Miller,
• Robert Salmon.

And now concerning the Grace of God spoken of in Tit. 2.11. which these Men are so angry with me for detecting their Folly therein; and now see what he saith, and hath given under his Hand as his Thoughts and Judgment concerning that Scrip­ture, and compare his Words, and F. H. in page 13 in their own Book, with what they spake concerning t [...]e Grace of God and its Appearance that Day at Thriploe, which we have given a true Account of in Print, whereby all may see what Wrong we have done them in saying that of them which here they have spoken as much themselves.

Page 14. J. O. saith, Thus the Grace of God, though it brings Salvation to all men where the Gospel comes, in Respect of the Proffer and Tender thereof, yet it doth not appear to all men in that Largeness you contend for.

And in page 13. F. H. saith concerning the second of Titus 11. Now take all men here for every particular man, I have thought it not agreeing to the Analogy and Rule of Faith, to say, The Grace of God that brings Salvation hath appeared or shined on all men.

In the same page J.O. calls me a Lyar, for saying that he [Page 23] said, that some Children before they are born were guilty of O­riginal Sin, and were Vessels of Wrath, and for Destru­ction.

Rep. Which I am able to prove he did at that Time say, and hath at other times often declared the same, and further, hath here declared as his Judgment, page 14. toward the latter End, Children while they are in the Womb, before they are born, so soon as they have Life, and are a living Soul, are guilty of Original Sin, I own this for Truth, &c. Now the same Scrip­ture that proves them to be guilty of Original Sin, proves them to be Children of Wrath, and under Condemnation.

By this all may see that to be his Judgment that he calls me a Lyar for reporting of him, whereby his Envy and Folly is made manifest, and my Innocency cleared, and out of his own Mouth that is proved which I have charged him with, so that it is pro­ved that this Man hath cal [...]ed me a Lyar out of Envy, and not that I have wronged him, which Doctrine of theirs is false, and altogether contrary to the Mind and Will of God declared in the Scriptur s of Truth, as I told them before, that is to say, that Children are guilty of Sin before they are born, and under Condemnation, and are Vessels of VVrath, which to say is a Damnable Doctrine, and altoge her contrary to the Equal and Just VVayes of God, who saith, Are not my Wayes Equal? and there is no Scripture that saith Children are guilty of Ori­ginal Sin, and it is a dark Imagination for any to believe or af­firm it, and the Scripture proves the contrary, Ezek. 18.2. The Soul that sinneth it shall dye, the Son shall not bear the Iniquity of the Father, &c. Jer. 31.29. They shall say no more, the Fathers have eaten sour Grapes, and the Childrens Teeth are set on Edge; but every Man shall dye for his own Iniquity, he that eateth, his Teeth shall be set on Edge.

S. C.

Pag. 15. line 27. Joseph Oddey bids me ask Henry Bostock, whom (saith he) knows our Doctrine, whom I think would have done us so much Right, as to have told you what our Doctrine is concerning Children before they are born.

And now here follows a Testation under the Hand of Henry Bostock, concerning the Doctrine of Francis Houlcraft and Joseph Oddey, which is, That some Children before they are born, are in a State of Damnation. This I have known to have been their Principle this Seven Years; and at that Meeting at Thriploe Joseph Oddey did affirm the same.