An Accompt of all the PROCEEDINGS Of the COMMISSIONERS of both PERSVVASIONS▪ Appointed by his Sacred MAJESTY, ACCORDING To Letters Patents, for the Review of The BOOK of COMMON-PRAYER, &c.

London, Printed in the year 1661.

[Page 6] [...] Majesties feet, beseeching you to prosper such a blessed Reso­lution, till it attain success: We must needs beleeve, that when your Majesty took our Consent to a Lyturgy to be a foundation that would infer our Concord, you meant not that we should have no Concord, but by consenting to this Lyturgy, without any considerable Alterations.

And when you comforted us with your Resolutions to draw us together, by yeelding on both sides in what we could, you meant not that we should be the boat to lay the banks that should not stir; and when your Majesty commanded us by Letters Patents to meet about such Alterations as are need­ful or expedient for giving satisfaction to tender Consciences, and the restoring and continuing of Peace and Unity, we rest assured, that it was not your sense that those tender con­sciences were to be forced to practice all which they judged unlawful, and not so much as a Ceremony abated them; or that our Treaty was only to convert either party to the Opi­nion of another; and that all our hopes of Concord and Liberty consisted only in disputing the Bishops into Non-conformity, or coming in every Ceremony to their minds.

Finally (for your Majesty, under God, is the protection where­to your people flye, and as the same necessity still remains which drew forth your Gracious Declaration) we most Hum­bly and Earnestly beseech your Majesty, that the benefit of the said Declaration may be continued to your people, and in particular, that none be punished or troubled for not using the Common-Prayer, till it be effectually reformed, and the Addition made, as there exprest. We crave your Majesties Pardon for the tediousness of this Address, and shall wait in hope, that so great a Calamity of your people as will follow the loss of so many able, faithful Ministers, as the rigorous Im­position would cast out, shall never be recorded in the History of your Reign, but that these impediments of Concord being forborn, your Kingdom may flourish in Piety and Peace, that this may be the signal honour of your happy [...]Reign, and your joy in the day of your account, which is the Prayer of

Your Majesties Faithful and Obedient Subjects.
[...]

A Copy of his Majesties Commission.

CHARLES the second by the Grace of God King of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, &c.
To our Trusty and well beloved the most Reverend Father in God Accepted Arch-Bishop of York, The right reverend Fa­thers in God Gilbert Bishop of London, John Bishop of Durham, John Bishop of Rochester, Humphrey Bishop of Sarum, George Bishop of Worcester, Robert Bishop of Lincolne, Benjamin Bishop of Peterborough, Brian Bishop of Che­ster, Richard Bishop of Carlile, John Bishop of Exeter, Edward Bishop of Norwich; and to our Trusty and well beloved, The Reverend Anthony Tuckney D D. John Conant D. D. William Spur­stow D. D. John Walis D. D. Tho Manton D. D. Edmund Calamy D. D. Richard Baxter Clerk, Ar­thur Jackson, Tho. Case, Samuel Clarke, Mathew Newcomen Clerkes; and to our trusty and well beloved Dr. Earles Dean of Westminster, Peter Heylin D. D. John Hacket D. D. John Berwick [Page] D. D. Peter Gunning D. D. John Pearson D. D. Tho. Pierce D. D. Anthony Sparrow, Herbert Thorn­dike D. D. Thomas Horton D. D. Thomas Jacomb D. D. William Bate, John Rawlinson Clerks, Wil­liam Cooper Clerk, D. John Lightfoot, D. John Collings, D. Benjamin Woodbridg, and William Drake Clerk, Greeting.

Whereas by our Decla­ration of the 25 of October last concerning Eccle­siastical affairs, we did (amongst other things) express our esteem of the Liturgy of the Church of England contained in the Book of Common-prayer; and yet since we find exceptions made against several things therein, we did by our said Declaration declare we would appoint an equal number of Learned Divines, of both perswasi­ons, to review the same: we therefore in accom­plishment of our said will and intent, and of our continued and constant care and study for the peace and unity of the Churches within our Do­minions, and for the removal of all exceptions & difference, and the occasions of such differences and exceptions from among our good subjects, for or concerning the said Book of Common-pray­er, or any thing therein contained, do by these our letters patents require, authorize, constitute and appoint you the said, &c. to advise upon and review the said Book of Common-prayer, com­paring the same with the most ancient Liturgies [Page] which have been used in the Church in the pri­mitive and purest times. And to that end, to as­semble and meet together, from time to time, and at such time within the space of four Kalendar-months now next ensuing, in the Masters lodg­ing in the Savoy in the Strand in the County of Middlesex, or in such other place or places as to you shall be thought fit and convenient, to take into your serious and grave consideration the se­veral directions and rules, forms of prayer, and things in the said Book of Common-prayer con­tained, and to advise, consult upon and about the same, and the several objections and exceptions which shall now be raised against the same, and (if occasion be) to make such reasonable and ne­cessary alterations, corrections, and amendments therein, as by and between you the said Arch-Bi­shop, Bishops, Doctors, and Persons hereby requi­red and authorized to meet and advise as afore­said, shall be agreed upon to be needful and expe­dient, for the giving satisfaction to tender consci­ences, and the restoring and continuance of peace and unity in the Churches under our protection and Government; but avoyding (asmuch as may be) all unnecessary abbreviations of the forms & Liturgy wherewith the people are altogether ac­quainted, and have so long received in the Church of England. And our will and pleasure is, that [Page] when you the said Arch-Bishop, Bishops, Do­ctors and Persons authorized and appointed by these our letters patents to meet, advise and con­sult upon and about the premises as aforesaid, shall have drawn your consultations to any reso­lution and determination which you shall agree upon as needful or expedient to be done for the altering, diminishing or enlarging the said Book of Common-prayer, or any part thereof, That then forthwith you certifie and present to us in writing under your several hands the matters and things whereupon you shall so determine, for our approbation; and to the end the same or so much thereof as shall be approved by us, may be established, and forasmuch as the said Arch-Bishop and Bishops have several great charges to attend, which we would not dispense with, or that the same should be neglected upon any great occasion whatsoever, and some of them be­ing of great Age and infirmities, may not be able constantly to attend the execution of the service and authority hereby given and required by us, in the meeting and consultation aforesaid; We will therefore, and hereby require you the said Dr. Earles, &c. to supply the place and places of such of the Arch-Bishop and Bishops (o­ther then the said Edward Bishop of Nor­wich) as shall by age, sickness, infirmity or [Page] other occasions be hindred from attending the said meeting or consultation (that is to say) that one of you the said Dr. Earles, &c. shall from time to time supply the place of each one of them the said Arch-Bishop and Bishops (other then the said Edward Bishop of Norwich) which shall happen to be hindred or to be absent from the said meetings or consutations; and shall and may advise, consult and determine, and also certi­fie and execute all and singular the powers and authorities before mentioned in and about the premises, as fully and absolutely as such Arch-Bishop and Bishops which shall so happen to be absent should or might do by vertue of these our letters patents, or any thing herein contained, in case he or they were personally present. And whereas in regard of the distance of some, the in­firmity of others, the multitude of constant im­ployment and other incidental impediments, some of you the said Edward Bishop of Norwich, &c. may be hindred from the constant attendance in the execution of the service aforesaid, we therefore will and do hereby require and autho­rize you the said Thomas Horton, &c. to supply the place or [...]laces of such the Commissioners last above mentioned, as shall by the means aforesaid or any other occasion be hindred from the said meeting and consultations, that one of you the [Page] said Thomas Horton, &c. shall from time to time supply the places of each one of the said Com­missioners last mentioned, which shall happen to be hindred or absent from the said meeting and consultations; and shall and may advise, consult and determine, and also certifie and exe­cute all and singular the powers and authorities before mentioned in and about the premises, as fully and absolutely as such of the said last men­tioned Commissioners, which shall so happen to be absent, should or might do by vertue of these our Letters patents, or any thing therein contai­ned, in case he or they were personally present. In witness whereof we have caused these our Letters to be made patents:

Per ipsum Regem.
Barker.

THE EXCEPTIONS Against the BOOK OF Common-Prayer.

ACknowledging with all humility and thankfulness, His Majesties most Princely Condiscention and Indul­gence, to very many of his Loyal Subjects, as well in His Majesties most gracious Declaration, as particu­larly in this present Commission, issued forth in pursuance thereof; Wee doubt not but the Right Reverend Bishops, and all the rest of His Majesties Commissioners intrusted in this work, will, in imitation of His Majesties most prudent and Christian Moderation and Clemency, judge it their duty (what wee finde to bee the Apostles own practice) in a special manner to bee tender of the Churches peace, to bear with the infirmities of the weak, and not to please themselves, nor to measure the consciences of other men by the light and latitude of their own, but seriously and readily to consider and advise of such expedi­ents, as may most conduce to the healing of our breaches, and uniting those that differ.

And albeit wee have an high and honourable esteem of those [Page 2] godly and learned Bishops, and others, who were the first Com­pilers of the Publick Liturgy, and do look upon it as an excellent and worthy work, for that time, when the Church of England made her first step out of such a mist of Popish Ignorance and Su­perstition, wherein it formerly was involved; Yet considering that all humane works do gradually arrive at their maturity, and perfection; and this in particular being a work of that nature, hath already admitted several Emendations since the first com­piling thereof.

It cannot bee thought any disparagement or derogation either to the work it self, or to the Compilers of it, or to those who have hitherto used it, if after more than an hundred years, since its first composure, such further [...]emendations be now made therein, as may bee judged▪ necessary for satisfying the scruples of a multitude of sober persons, who cannot at all (or very hard­ly) comply with the use of it, as now it is, and may best sute with the present times after so long an enjoyment of the glorious light of the Gospel, and so happy a Reformation. Especially considering that many godly and learned men▪ have from the beginning all along earnestly desired the alteration of many things therein, and very many of His Majesties pious, peaceable, and loyal Subjects, after so long a discontinuance of it, are more averse from it than heretofore. The satisfying of whom (as far as may bee) will very much conduce to that peace and unity which is so much desired by all good men, and so much indeavoured by His Most Excellent Majesty.

And therefore in pursuance of this His Majesties most gracious Commission, for the satisfaction of tender consciences, and the procuring of peace and unity amongst our selves, wee judge meet to propose,

First, That all the Prayers, and other materials of the Liturgy may consist of nothing doubtful or questioned amongst pious, learned, and Orthodox persons inasmuch as the professed end of composing them is for the declaring of the unity and consent of all who joyn in the publick worship; it being too evident that the limiting of Church-Communion to things of doubtful disputation, hath been in all ages the ground of Schism and Separation accord­ing to the saying of a learned person.

[Page 3] To load our publick forms,Mr. Hales. with the private fancies upon which wee differ, is the most Soveraign way to perpetuate Schism to the worlds end. Prayer, Confession, Thanksgiving, Reading of the Scriptures, and administration of the Sacra­ments in the plainest, and simplest manner, were matter enough to furnish out a sufficient Liturgy, though nothing either of private Opinion, or of Church-pomp, of Garments, or pre­scribed gestures, of Imagery, of Musick, of matter concerning the dead, of many superfluities which creep into the Church un­der the name of Order, and Decency, did interpose it self. To charge Churches and Liturgies with things unnecessary, was the first beginning of all Superstition, and when scruple of consci­ence began to be made or pretended, then Schism began to break in. If the special Guides and Fathers of the Church would be a little sparing of incumbring Churches with superfluities, or not over-rigid, either in reviving Obsolete Customes, or impo­sing new, there would be far less cause of Schism, or Supersti­tion; and all the inconvenience were likely to ensue, would be but this, they should in so doing yeeld a little to the imbecillity of their inferiours; a thing which St. Paul would never have re­fused to do: Mean while, wheresoever false or suspected Opi­nions are made a peece of Church-Liturgy; hee that separates is not the Schismatick: for it is alike unlawful to make Profes­sion of known, or suspected falshood; as to put in practise unlaw­ful or suspected actions.]’

2. Further, we humbly desire that it may be seriously considered, that as our first Reformers out of their great wisdome, did at that time so compose the Liturgy, as to win upon the Papists, and to draw them into their Church-Communion, by varying as little as they well could, from the Romish forms before in use; so whether in the present constitution, & state of things amongst us, wee should not according to the same Rule of Prudence and Charity, have our Liturgy so composed, as to gain upon the judgements and affection of all those who in the substantials of the Protestant Religion are of the same perswasions with our selves: Inasmuch as a more firm union and consent of all such, as well in Worship, as in Doctrine, would greatly strengthen the Protestant interest against all those dangers and temptations [Page 4] which our intestine Divisions and Animosities do expose us unto, from the common Adversary.

3. That the Repetitions, and Responsals of the Clerk and People, and the alternate reading of the Psalms and Hymns which cause a confused murmure in the Congregation, whereby what is read is less intelligible, and therefore unedifying, may be omit­ted: The Minister being appointed for the people in all publick services appertaining unto God, and the Holy Scriptures, both of the Old and New Testament, intimating the peoples part in publick prayer to be only with silence and reverence to attend thereunto, and to declare their consent in the cloze, by saying Amen,

4. That in regard the Letany (though otherwise containing in it many holy petitions) is so framed, that the petitions for a great part are uttered only by the people, which wee think not to be so consonant to Scripture, which makes the Minister the mouth of the people to God in prayer, the particulars thereof may be composed into one solemn prayer to be offered by the Minister unto God for the people.

5. That there be nothing in the Liturgy which may seem to countenance the Observation of Lent, as a Religious Fast; the example of Christs fasting forty daies and nights, being no more imitable, nor intended for the imitation of a Christian, than a­ny other of his miraculous works were, or than Moses his forty daies fast was for the Jews: And the Act of Parliament 5. Eliz. forbidding abstinence from flesh to bee observed upon any o­ther than a politick consideration▪ and punishing all those who by preaching, teaching, writing, or open speeches, shall notifie that the forbearing of flesh, is of any necessity for the saving of the soul, or that it is the service of God, otherwise, than as other politick Laws are.

6. That the Religious Observation of Saints-daies appointed to be kept as Holy-daies, and the Vigils thereof without any foundation (as wee conceive) in Scripture, may be omitted. That if any be retained, they may be called Festivals, and not Holy-Daies, nor made equal with the Lords-day, nor have any peculiar service appointed for them, nor the people bee upon such daies forced wholly to abstain from work; And that the names of all [Page 5] others now inserted in the Calender which are not in the first and second books of Edward the sixth, may be left out.

7. That the gift of Prayer, being one special Qualification for the work of the Ministry bestowed by Christ in order to the Edifi­cation of his Church, and to bee exercised for the profit and be­nefit thereof, according to its various and emergent necessity; It is desired, that there may bee no such imposition of the Liturgy, as that the exercise of that gift bee thereby totally excluded in any part of publick worship. And further, considering the great age of some Ministers, and infirmities of others, and the variety of se­veral services oft-times concurring upon the same day, whereby it may bee inexpedient to require every Minister, at all times to read the whole; It may bee left to the discretion of the Minister, to omit part of it, as occasion shall require: which liberty wee finde to bee allowed even in the first Common Prayer-Book of Edward. 6.

8. That in regard of the many defects which have been ob­served in that version of the Scriptures, which is used throughout the Liturgy (manifold instances whereof may bee produ [...]ed, as in the Epistle for the first Sunday after Epiphany, taken out of Ro­mans 12. 1. Bee yee changed in your shape; And the Epistle for the Sunday next before Easter, taken out of Philippians 2. 5. Found in his Apparel as a man, as also the Epistle for the fourth Sunday in Lent, taken out of the fourth of the Galathians, Mount Sinai is Agar in Arabia, and bordereth upon the City which is now called Je­rusalem. The Epistle for St. Matthews day taken out of the se­cond Epistle of Corinth, and the 4th. Wee go not out of kind. The Gospel for the second Sunday after Epiphany, taken out of the se­cond of John, When men bee drunk. The Gospel for the third Sunday in Lent, taken out of the 11th. of Luke, One house doth fall upon another. The Gospel for the Annunciation, taken out of the first of Luke, This is the sixth month which was called barren] and many other places) wee therefore desire instead thereof the New Translation allowed by Authority may alone bee used.

9. That inasmuch as the holy Scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation, to furnish us thorougly unto all good works, and contain in them all things necessary, either in Doctrine to be beleeved, or in Duty to bee practised; whereas divers chapters of [Page 6] the Apocryphal Books appointed to bee read, are charged to bee, in both respects, of dubious and uncertain credit: It is therefore desired, that nothing bee read in the Church for Lessons, but the holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament.

10. That the Minister bee not required to rehearse any part of the Liturgy at the Communion-Table, save only those parts which properly belong to the Lords Supper; and that at such times only when the said holy Supper is administred.

11. That as the word (Minister) and not Priest, or Curate, is used in the absolution, and in divers other places; it may through­out the whole Book bee so used instead of those two words: and that instead of the word Sunday, the word Lords-Day, may bee every where used.

12. Because singing of Psalms is a considerable part of pub­lick worship, wee desire that the Version set forth and allowed to bee sung in Churches, may bee amended, or that wee may have leave to make use of a purer Version.

13. That all obsolete words in the Common-Prayer, and such whose use is changed from their first significancy (as Aread) used in the Gospel for the Monday, and Wednesday before Ea­ster [Then opened hee their wits] used in the Gospel for Easter Tuesday, &c. may bee altered unto other words generally re­ceived, and better understood.

14. That no portions of the Old Testament, or of the Acts of the Apostles, be called Epistles, and read as such.

15. That whereas throughout the several offices, the phrase is such as presumes all persons (within the Communion of the Church) to bee regenerated, converted, and in an actual state of Grace (which had Ecclesiastical Discipline been truly and vigo­rously executed, in the exclusion of scandalous and obstinate sin­ners, might bee better supposed: But there having been, and still being a confessed want of that (as in the Liturgy is acknowledg­ed) it cannot bee rationally admitted in the utmost latitude of Charity.) Wee desire that this may bee reformed.

16. That whereas orderly connection of Prayers, and of parti­cular Petitions and Expressions, together with a competent length of the forms used, are tending much to Edification, and to gain the reverence of people to them. There appears to us too [Page 7] great a neglect of both, of this order, and of other just Laws, of Method.

Particularly.

1. The Collects are generally short, many of them consisting but of one, or at most two sentences of Petition; and these gene­rally ushered in with a repeated mention of the Name and Attri­butes of God, and presently concluding with the Name and Me­rits of Christ; whence are caused many unnecessary intercisions and abruptions, which when many Petitions are to bee offered at the same time, are neither agreeable to Scriptural Examples, nor suited to the gravity and seriousness of that holy duty.

2. The Prefaces of many Collects have not any clear and spe­cial respect to the following Petitions; and particular Petitions are put together, which have not any due order, nor evident con­nection one with another, nor suitableness with the occasions up­on which they are used, but seem to have fallen in rather casual­ly, than from an orderly contrivance.

It is desired, that instead of those various Collects, there may bee one Methodical and intire form of Prayer composed out of many of them.

17. That whereas the Publick Liturgy of a Church should in reason comprehend the sum of all such sins as are ordinarily to bee confessed in prayer by the Church, and of such petitions and thanksgivings as are ordinarily by the Church to bee put up to God, and the Publick Catechisms, or Systems of Doctrine, should summarily comprehend all such Doctrines as are necessary to be beleeved, and these explicitly set down: The present Liturgy as to all these seems very defective.

Particularly.

1. There is no preparatory Prayer in our addresse to God for Assistance or Acceptance; yet many Collects in the midst of the Worship have little or nothing else.

2. The Confession is very defective, not clearly expressing o­riginal sin, nor sufficiently enumerating actual sins, with their aggravations; but consisting only of generals: Whereas Confes­sion being the exercise of Repentance, ought to bee more par­ticular.

[Page 8] 3 There is also a great defect as to such forms of publick praise and Thanksgiving, as are suitable to Gospel-worship.

4 The whole body of the Common-prayer also consisteth very much of meer generals: as, (To have our prayers heard,) To bee kept from all evil, and from all enemies, and all adversity, that wee may do Gods will; without any mention of the particulars in which these generals exist.

5 The Catechisme is defective as to many necessary Doctrines of our Religion: some even of the essentials of Christianity not mentioned except in the Creed, and there not so explicite as ought to bee in a Catechisme.

18 Because this Liturgie containeth the imposition of divers Ceremonies which from the first Reformation have by sundry Learned and Pious men been judged unwarrantable, as

1 That Publick Worship may not bee celebrated by any Mi­nister that dare not wear a Surpless.

2 That none may Baptize, nor bee Baptized, without the tran­sient image of the Cross, which hath at least the semblance of a Sacrament of Humane Institution, being used as an ingageing signe in our first and solemne Covenanting with Christ, and the duties whereunto wee are really obliged by Baptisme, being more expresly fixed to that airy sign than to this holy Sacrament.

3 That none may receive the Lords Supper that dare not kneel in the act of receiving; but the Minister must exclude all such from the Communion: although such kneeling not only differs from the practice of Christ and of his Apostles, but (at least on the Lords day) is contrary to the practice of the Ca­tholick Church, for many hundred years after, and forbidden by the most Venerable Councils that ever were in the Christian world. All which Impositions, are made yet more grievous, by that subscription to their lawfulness, which the Canon exacts, and by the heavy punishment upon the non-observance of them which the Act of Uniformity inflicts.

And it being doubtful whether God hath given power unto men, to institute in his Worship such mystical Teaching signs, which not being necessary in genere, fall not under the Rule of doing all things decently, orderly, and to edification, and which once granted will upon the same reason, open a door to the Ar­bitrary [Page 9] Imposition of Numerous Ceremonies of which St. Au­gustine complained in his daies; and the things in controversie being in the judgement of the Imposers confessedly indifferent, who do not so much as pretend any real goodness in them of themselves, otherwise than what is derived from their being im­posed, and consequently the Imposition ceasing, that will cease also, and the Worship of God not become indecent without them.

Whereas on the other hand in the judgement of the Opposers they are by some held sinful, and unlawful in themselves, by o­thers very inconvenient and unsuitable to the simplicity of Gospel-Worship, and by all of them very grievous and burthen­some, and therefore not at all fit to bee put in ballance with the Peace of the Church, which is more likely to be promoted by their removal, than continuance: Considering also how tender our Lord and Saviour himself is of weak Brethren, declaring it much better for a man to have a mill-stone hanged about his neck, and bee cast into the depth of the Sea, than to offend one of his little ones: And how the Apostle Paul (who had as great a Legislative Power in the Church, as any under Christ) held him­self obliged by that Common Rule of Charity, not to lay a stumbling block, or an occasion of offence before a weak Brother, chusing rather not to eat flesh whiles the world stands (though in it self a thing lawful) then offend his Brother for whom Christ died: Wee cannot but desire that these Ceremonies may not be imposed on them, who judge such Impositions a Violation of the Royalty of Christ, and an impeachment of his Laws as in insuf­ficient, and are under the holy awe of that which is written, Deut. 12. 32. (What thing soever I command you, observe to do it) Thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it) but that there may bee either a total abolition of them, or at least such a liberty, that those who are unsatisfied concerning their lawfulness or expe­diency, may not bee compelled to the practice of them, or sub­scription to them. But may bee permitted to enjoy their Mini­sterial Function, and Communion with the Church without them.

The rather because these Ceremonies have for above an hun­dred years been the fountain of manifold evils in this Church [Page 10] and Nation, occasioning fad divisions between Ministers and Ministers, as also between Ministers and People, exposing many Orthodox, Pious, and Peaceable Ministers, to the displeasure of their Rulers, casting them on the edge of the penal Statutes, to the loss not only of their Livings and Liberties, but also of their opportunities for the service of Christ, and his Church; and forcing people, either to worship God in such a manner as their own consciences condemn, or doubt of, or else to forsake our As­semblies, as thousands have done: And no better fruits than these can bee looked for from the retaining and imposing of these Ceremonies, unless wee could presume, that all His Majesties Subjects should have the same subtilty of judgement to discern even to a Ceremony, how far the power of man extends in the things of God, which is not to bee expected, or should yeeld Obe­dience to all the Impositions of men concerning them, without inquiring into the will of God, which is not to bee desired.

Wee do therefore, most earnestly entreat the Right Reverend Fathers and Brethren, to whom these Papers are delivered, as they tender the glory of God, the honour of Religion, the Peace of the Church, the service of His Majesty in the accomplishment of that happy Union, which His Majesty hath so abundantly te­stified his desires of, to joyn with us in importuning his most ex­cellent Majesty, that his most gracious indulgence, as to these Ce­remonies granted in his Royal Declaration may bee confirmed and continued to us and our posterities, and extended to such as do not yet enjoy the benefit thereof.

19. As to that Passage in His Majesties Commission, where wee are authorized, and required to compare the present Litur­gy, with the most antient Liturgies which have been used in the Church, in the purest and most primitive times: Wee have in obe­dience to His Majesties Commission, made enquiry, but cannot finde any Records of known credit, concerning any intire forms of Liturgy, within the first three hundred years which are con­fessed to bee, as the most Primitive, so the purest ages of the Church: Nor any Imposition of Liturgies upon any National Church for some hundreds of years after: Wee finde indeed some Liturgical forms Fathered upon St. Basil, St. Chrysostome, and St. Ambrose, but wee have not seen any Copies of them, but such [Page 11] as give us sufficient evidence to conclude them either wholly spu­rious, or so interpolated, that wee cannot make a judgement which in them hath any Primitive Authority.

Having thus in general expressed our desires, wee come now to particulars, which wee finde numerous, and of a various na­ture; some wee grant are of inferiour Consideration, verbal ra­ther that material (which were they not in the Publick Litur­gy of so famous a Church, wee should not have mentioned) o­thers dubious and disputable, as not having a clear foundation in Scripture for their warrant: but some there bee that seem to bee corrupt, and to carry in them a repugnancy to the Rule of the Gospel; and therefore have administred just matter of Exception and offence to many, truly religious, and peaceable; not of a private station only, but learned and judicious Divines, as well of other Reformed Churches, as of the Church of England, ever since the Reformation.

Wee know much hath been spoken and written by way of Apology, in answer to many things that have been objected; but yet the doubts and scruples of tender consciences still con­tinue, or rather are increased. Wee do humbly conceive it therefore a work worthy of those wonders of Salvation, which God hath wrought for His Majesty now on the Throne, and for the whole Kingdome, and exceedingly becoming the Ministers of the Gospel of Peace, with all holy moderation and tenderness, to indeavour the removal of every thing out of the Worship of God, which may justly offend or grieve the spirits of sober and godly people. The things themselves that are desired to bee removed, not being of the foundation of Religion, nor the es­sentials of Publick Worship, nor the removal of them any way tending to the prejudice of the Church or State; Therefore their continuance, and rigorous Imposition, can no waies be able to countervail the laying aside of so many pious and able Mini­sters, and the unconceivable grief that will arise to multitudes of His Majesties most loyal and peaceable Subjects, who upon all occasions are ready to serve him with their prayers, estates, and lives. For the preventing of which evils, wee humbly desire that these particulars following, may bee taken into serious and tender Consideration.

Concerning Morning and Evening Prayer.

Rubrick.

THat morning and evening Prayer shall bee used in the accustomed place of Church, Chancel, or Chappel; except it bee otherwise determined by the Ordinary of the place, and the Chaucel shall remain as in times past.

Exception.

WE desire that the words of the first Rubrick may be expressed as in the Book esta­blished by Authority of Parlia­ment 5to. & 6to. Edw. 6ti. Thus [the Morning and Evening Prayer shall bee used in such place of the Church, Chappel, or Chan­cel, and the Minister shall so turn him, as the people may best hear, and if there bee any contro­versie therein, the matter shall be referred to the Ordinary.]

Rubrick.

And here is to bee noted, that the Minister, at the time of the Communion, and at other times, in his ministeration shall use such Ornaments in the Church, as were in use by Authority of Parliament, in the second year of the Reigne of Edward the sixth, according to the Act of Parliament.

Exception.

Forasmuch as this Rubrick seemeth to bring back the Cope, Albe, &c. and other Vestments forbidden by the Common-Prayer-Book, 5. and 6. Edw. 6. and so our reasons alledged against Ceremonies under our eighteenth general Exception, wee desire it may bee wholly left out,

Rubrick.

The Lords-Prayer after the Absolution ends thus; Deliver us from evil.

Exception.

Wee desire that these words, For thine is the Kingdome, the power and the glory for ever and ever. Amen. May be alwaies added unto the Lords-Prayer; and that this Prayer may not [Page 13] bee enjoyned to bee so often used in morning and evening Ser­vice.

Rubrick.

And at the end of every Psalme, throughout the year, and likewise in the end of Bene­dictus, Benedicite, Magnificat, & Nunc Dimittis, shall bee re­peated, Glory to the Father, &c.

Exception.

By this Rubrick, and other places in the Common-Prayer-Books, the Gloria Patri, is ap­pointed to bee said six times or­dinarily in every Morning and Evening Service, frequently eight times in a Morning; some­times ten, which wee think car­ries with it at least an appea­rance of that vain repetition which Christ forbids; for the a­voiding of which appearance of evil, wee desire it may bee used but once in the Morning, and once in the Evening.

Rubrick.

In such places where they do sing, there shall the Lessons bee sung, in a plaine Tune, and like­wise, the Epistle and Gospel,

Exception.

The Lessons, and the Epistles, and Gospels being for the most part neither Psalms nor Hymns, wee know no warrant why they should bee sung in any place, and conceive that the di­stinct Reading of them with an Audible voice, tends more to the Edification of the Church.

Rubrick.

Or this Canticle, Ben'dicite omnia opera.

Exception.

Wee desire that some Psalm or Scripture Hymn may bee appointed instead of that Apo­cryphal.

In the Letany.

Rubrick.

From all Fornication, and all other deadly sin.

Exception.

IN regard that the wages of sin is death; wee desire that this clause may bee thus altered, From Fornication, and all other hainous, or grievous sins.

Rubrick.

From Battel, and Murther, and sudden death.

Exception.

Because this expression of sudden death hath been so often excepted against, wee desire, if it bee thought fit, it may bee thus read, From battel and mur­ther, and from dying suddenly, and unprepared.

Rubrick.

That it may please thee to preserve all that travel, by land, or by water, all women labour­ing with childe, all sick persons, and young children, and to shew thy pitty upon all prisouers and captives.

Exception.

Wee desire the term (All) may bee advised upon, as seem­ing liable to just Exceptions, and that it may bee considered, whether it may not better bee put indefinitely; those that travel, &c. rather than universally.

The Collect on Christmas-day.

Rubrick.

ALmighty God, which hast given us thy only begotten Son, to take our nature upon him, and this day to bee born of a pure Uirgin, &c.

Exception.

WEE desire that in both Collects the word (This day) may bee left out, it being according to vulgar Accepta­tion a contradiction.

Rubrick.

Then shall follow the Collect of [Page 15] the Nativity, which shall be said continually unto New-years-day.

The Collect for Whitsonday.

Rubrick.

God which upon this day, &c.

Rubrick.

The same Collect to be read on Monday and Tuesday, in Whit­son-week.

Rubrick.

The two Collects for St. Johns day, and Innocents, the Collects for the first day in Lent, for the fourth Sunday after Easter, for Trinity-Sunday, for the sixth and twelfth Sunday after Trinity, for St. Lukes day, and Michaelmas day.

Exception.

Wee desire that these Col­lects may bee further consider­ed and debated, as having in them, divers things that wee judge fit to bee altered.

The Order for the Administration of the Lords-Supper.

Rubrick.

SO many as intend to bée par­takers of the Holy Commu­nion shall signifie their names to the Curate over-night, or else in the morning before the be­ginning of morning-prayer, or immediately after.

Exception.

THe time here assigned for notice to bee given to the Minister, is not sufficient.

Rubrick.

And if any of these be a no­torious [Page 16] evil liver, the Curate having knowledge thereof, shall call him, and advertize him in any wise not to presume to the Lords Table.

Exception.

Wee desire the Ministers sters power both to admit and keep from the Lords Table, may bee according to His Ma­jesties Declaration, 25. Octob. 1660. In these words, The Mi­nister shall admit none to the Lords Supper, till they have made a credible Profession of their Faith, and promised Obe­dience to the Will of God, ac­cording as is expressed in the Considerations of the Rubrick, before the Catechism, and that all possible diligence be used for the Instruction and Reforma­tion of scandalous Offenders, whom the Minister shall not suf­fer to partake of the Lords Table, until they have openly de­clared themselves to have truly repented and amended their former naughty lives, as is partly expressed in the Rubrick, and more fully in the Canons,

Rubrick.

Then shall the Priest rehearse distinctly all the ten Commande­ments, and the people knéeling, shall after every Commande­ment ask Gods mercy for trans­gressing the same.

Exception.

Wee desire,

1. That the preface, prefix­ed by God himself to the ten Commandements, may bee re­stored.

2 That the fourth Comman­dement may bee read, as in Ex­od. 20. Deut. 5. Hee blessed the Sabbath day.

3. That neither Minister nor People may bee enjoyned to kneel more at the reading of this, than of other parts of Scrip­ptures, [Page 17] the rather because many ignorant persons are thereby induced to use the Ten Commandements as a Prayer.

4. That instead of those short Prayers of the People, intermixed with the several Commandements, the Minister after the reading of all may conclude with a suitable prayer.

Rubrick.

After the Creed, if there be no Ser­mon, shall follow one of the Hoinilies already set forth, or hereafter to be set forth by common Authority.

Exception.

We desire, that the Preaching of the Word may be strictly enjoyned, and not left so indifferent at the Administration of the Sacraments, as also that Ministers may not be bound to those things which are as yet but future and not in being.

After such Sermon, Homily, or Exhortation, the Curate shall declare, &c. and earnestly exhort them to re­member the Poor, saying one or more of these sentences following.

Then it all the Church-Wardens, or some other by them appointed, ga­ther the Devotion of the People.

Two of the sentences here cited are Apocryphal, and four of them more proper to draw out the peo­ples Bounty to their Ministers, than their Charitie to the poor.

Collection for the poor may be better made at or a little before the departing of the Communicants.

Exhortation.

We be come together at this time to féed at the Lords Supper, unto the which in Gods behalf I bid you all that be here present, and beséech you for the Lord Jesus Christ sake that ye will not refuse to come, &c.

The way and meanes thereto is first to examine your Lives & Conver­sations, and if ye shall p [...]rceive your offences to be such as be not only against God, but also against your Neighbours, then ye shall reconcile your selves unto them, and be ready to make restitution and satisfaction.

And because it is requisite that no man should come to the holy Commun­nion, but with a full trust in Gods mercy and with a quiet conscience.

If it be intended that these Ex­hortations should be read at the Communion, they seem to us to be unseasonable.

We fear this may discourage many from coming to the Sacra­ment, who lye under a doubting and troubled Conscience.

Before the Confession.

Then shall this general Confession be made in the name of all those that are minded to receive the holy Communion either by one of them, or else by one of the [...] Priest himself.

We desire it may be made by the Minister only.

Before the Confession.

Then shall the Priest or the Bishop (being present) stand up, and turning himself to the people say thus.

Exception.

The Minister turning himself to the people is most convenient throughout the whole Ministrati­on.

Before the Prefaces on Christmass day, and 7 dayes after.

Because thou didst give Jesus Christ thine onely Son to be born as this Day for us, &c.

First, We cannot peremptorily fix the Nativitie of our Saviour to this or that day particularly: Se­condly, it seems incongruous to af­firm the Birth of Christ and the de­scending of the Holy Ghost to be on this day for seven or eight dayes together.

Upon Whitsunday, and fix dayes after.

According to whose most true pro­mise the Holy Ghost came down this day from heaven.

Prayer before that which is at the Consecration.

Grant us that our sinfull bodies may be made clean by his Body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood.

We desire, that whereas these words seem to give a greater effica­cy to the Blood than to the Body of Christ, they may be altered thus, That our sinfull souls and bodies may be cleansed through his precious Body & Blood.

Prayer at the Consecration.

Hear us O merciful Father, &c. who in the same night that he was be­trayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to his Disciples, saying, Take, eat, &c.

We conceive that the manner of the consecrating of the Elements is not here explicite and distinct e­nough, and the Ministers breaking of the Bread is not so much as men­tioned.

Rubrick.

Then shall the Minister first receive the Communion in both kinds, &c. and after deliver it to the people in their hands knéeling; and when he delivereth the bread, he shall say, The Body of our Lord Jesus Christ which was given f [...]r thee, preserve thy body and soul unto everlasting life, and take and eat this in Remembrance, &c.

We desire, that at the distribu­tion of the Bread and Wine to the Communicants, we may use the words of our Saviour as near as may be, and that the Minister be not re­quired to deliver the Bread and Wine into every particular Com­municants hand, and to repeat the words to each one in the singular number, but that it may suffice to speak them to diverse jointly, according to our Saviours Example.

[Page 19] We also desire, that the Kneeling at the Sacrament (it being not tha [...] gesture which the Apostles used, though Christ was personally present a­mongst them, nor that which was used in the purest and primitive times of the Church) may be left free, as it was 1. & 2. EDW. As touching Knee­ling, &c. they may be used or left as every mans Devotion serveth, without blame.

Rubrick.

And note, that every Parishioner shall Communicate at the least thrée times in the year, of which Easter is be one, and shall also receive the Sa­craments and other Rites, according to the Orders in this Book appointed.

Exception.

Forasmuch as every Parishioner is not duly qualified for the Lords Supper, and those habitually prepa­red are not at all times actually dis­posed, but many may be hindered by the providence of God, and some by the distemper of their own spirits; Wee desire this Rubrick may be either wholly omitted, or thus altered:

Every Minister shall be bound to administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper at least thrice a year, provided there be a due number of Communicants manifesting their desires to receive.

And we desire that the following Rubrick in the Common-Prayer-Book in 5. & 8. EDW. established by Law as much as any other part of the Common-Prayer-Book, may be restored for the Vindicating of our Church in the matter of Kneeling at the Sacrament (although the Gesture be left indifferent) [‘Although no Order can be so perfectly devised, but it may be of some, ei­ther for their Ignorance and Infirmitie, or else of Malice and Obstinacy, misconstrued, depraved, and interpre­ted in a wrong part; and yet, because brotherly Charity willeth that so much as conveniently may be Offences should be taken away, therefore are we willing to do the same. Whereas it is Ordained in the Book of Common-Prayer, in the Administration of the Lords Supper, that the Communicant kneeling should receive the holy Communion, which thing being well meant for a signification of the humble and gratefull acknow­ledging of the Benefits of Christ given unto the worthy Receivers, and to avoid the prophanation and disorder which about the holy Communion might else ensue, left yet the same Kneeling might be thought or taken otherwise, Wee do declare, that it is not meant thereby that any adoration is done or ought to be done either [Page 20] unto the Sacramental Bread or Wine, there bodily re­ceived, or unto any real or essential presence there be­ing of Christs natural Flesh and Blood: For as concer­ning the Sacramental Bread and Wine, they remain still in their very natural substances, and therefore may not be adored; for that were Idolatry to be abhorred of all faithfull Christians: and as concerning the natural Body and Blood of our Saviour Christ, they are in hea­ven, and not here, for it is against the truth of Christs natural bodie to be in more places than in one at one time.’

Of Publique Baptisme.

THere being divers Learned, Pious, and Peaceable Mini­sters, who not only judge it unlawfull to Baptize Chil­dren, whose Parents both of them are Atheists, Infi­dels, Hereticks, or Unbaptized, but also such whose Parents are Excommunicate Persons, Fornicators, or otherwise notorious and scandalous Sinners; We desire they may not be enforced to Baptize the Children of such, untill they have made due profession of their Repentance.

Before Baptisme.
Rubrick.

Parents shall give notice over night, or in the morning.

Exception.

Wee desire that more timely notice may be given.

Rubrick.

And then the Godfathers, and the Godmothers, and the people with the Children, &c.

Exception.

Here is no mention of the pa­rents, in whose right the Childe is Baptized, and who are fittest both to dedicate it unto God, and to Co­venant for it: We do not know that any persons, except the Parents, or some others appointed by them, have any power to consent for the Children, or to enter them into Covenant. Wee desire it may be left free to Parents whether they will have Sure­ties to undertake for their Children in Baptisme or no.

Rubrick.

Ready at the Font:

Exception.

We desire it may so be placed as all the Congregation may best see and hear the whole Administra­tion.

In the first Prayer.

By the Baptisme of the Wel­beloved Son, &c. didst sanctifie the flood Jordan, and all other waters to the Mystical washing away of sin, &c.

It being doubtfull whether ei­ther the Flood Jordan or any other waters were sanctified to a Sacra­mental Use, by Christs being ba­ptized, and not necessary to be as­serted, Wee desire this may be o­therwise expressed.

The third Exhortation.

Do promise by you that be their Sureties.

The Questions.

Doest thou forsake, &c.

Doest thou believe, &c.

Wilt thou be Baptized, &c.

Wee know not by what right the Sureties do promise and answer in the name of the Infant: It seem­eth to us also to countenance the Anabaptistical Opinion of the ne­cessity of an actual profession of Faith and Repentance in Order to Baptisme. That such a profession [Page 22] may be required of Parents in their own name, and now solemnly renued when they present their Children to Baptisme, Wee willingly grant: but the asking of one for another is a practice whose warrant we doubt of; and therefore Wee desire that the two first Interrogatories may be put to the Parents to be answered in their own names, and the last propounded to the Parents or pro-Parents thus, Will you have this Childe Baptized into this Faith?

The second Prayer before Baptisme.

May receive remission of sins by spiritual Regeneration.

This Expression seeming incon­venient, Wee desire it may be changed into this; May be rege­nerated and receive the Remission of sins.

In the Prayer after Baptism.

That it hath pleased thée to re­generate this Infant by thy Holy Spirit.

Wee cannot in faith say, that every Childe that is Baptized is regenerated by Gods Holy Spirit; at least it is a disputable point, and therefore Wee desire it may be otherwise expressed.

After Baptisme.

Then shall the Priest make a Cross, &c.

Concerning the Cross in Ba­ptisme wee referr to our 18th Ge­neral.

Of Private BAPTISM.

VVEe desire that Baptism may not be administred in a private place at any time, unless by a lawful Minister, and in the pre­sence of a competent number: That where it is evident that any Child hath been so Baptized, no part of the Administration may be reiterated in publick, under any Limitations: And therefore we see no need of any Liturgy in that case.

Of the CATECHISM.

1. Quest. WHat is your Name, &c.

2. Quest. Who gave you that Name?

Ans. My Godfathers and my God­mothers in my Baptism.

3. Quest. What did your Godfa­thers and Godmothers do for you in Baptism?

Exception.

We desire these three first Questi­ons may be altered; considering that the far greater number of per­sons Baptized within these twenty years last past, had no Godfathers nor Godmothers at their Baptism: The like to be done in the seventh Question.

2. Ans. In my Baptism, wherein I was made a Child of God, a Mem­ber of Christ, and an Inheritor of the Kingdom of Heaven.

We conceive it might be more safely expressed thus: Wherein I was visibly admitted into the number of the members of Christ, the children of God, and the Heirs (rather then Inheritors) of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Of the Rehearsal of the Ten Commandments.

We desire that the Command­ments be inserted according to the New Translation of the Bible.

[Page 24] 10. Ans. My duty towards God is to believe in him, &c.

In this Answer there seemt to be particular respect to the several Commandments of the first Table, as in the following Answer to those of the Second. And therefore wee desire it may be advised upon, whe­ther to the last word of this Answer may not be added [particularly on the Lords day] otherwise there being no­thing in all this Answer that refers to the fourth Commandment.

14. Quest. How many Sacraments hath Christ ordained, &c?

Ans. Two onely, as generally ne­cessary to salvation.

That these words may be omit­ted, and answer thus given: Two onely, Baptism and the Lords Supper.

19. Quest. What is required of persons to be Baptized?

Ans. Repentance, whereby they forsake sin; and Faith, whereby they stedfastly believe the promises of God, &c.

20. Quest. Why then are Infants baptized, when by reason of their tender age they cannot perform them?

Ans. Yes: they do perform by their Sureties, who promise and vow them both in their names.

We desire that the entring In­fants into Gods Covenant may be more warily expressed, and that the words may not seem to found their Baptism upon a really actual Faith and Repentance of their own; and we de­sire that a promise may not be taken for a performance of such Faith and Re­pentance: and especially, that it be not asserted, that they perform these by the promise of their Sureties, it be­ing to the seed of Believers that the Covenant of God is made; and not (that we can find) to all that have such believing Sureties, who are nei­ther Parents, nor Pro-parents of the Child.

In the General Wee observe, that the Doctrine of the Sacraments which was added upon the Conference at Hampton-Court is much more fully and particularly [Page 25] delivered then the other parts of the Catechism, in short Answers fitted to the memories of Children, and thereupon we offer it to be considered:

First, Whether there should not be a more distinct and full Explication of the Creed, the Commandments, and the Lords Prayer.

Secondly, Whether it were not convenient to add (what seems to be wanting) somewhat particularly concerning the nature of Faith, of Re­pentance, the two Covenants, of Justification, Sanctification, Adoption, and Regeneration.

Of CONFIRMATION.

The last Rubrick before the CATECHISM.

ANd that no man shall think that any detriment shall come to Children by deferring of their Confir­mation, he shall know for truth, that it is certain by Gods Word, that Chil­dren being baptized, have all things necessary for their salvation, and be vndoubtedly saved.

Although we charitably suppose the meaning of these words was onely to exclude the necessity af any other Sacraments to Baptized Infants; yet these words are dangerous as to the mis-leading of the Vulgar, and therefore we desire they may be ex­punged.

Rubrick after the Catechism.

So soon as the Children can say in their Mother-tongue the Articles of the Faith, the Lords Prayer, and the ten Commandments and can answer such other questions of this short Ca­techism, &c. then shall they be brought to the Bishop, &c. and the Bishop shall confirm them.

We conceive that it is not a suffi­cient qualification for Confirmati­on, that Children be able memoriter to repeat the Articles of the Faith, commonly called, the Apostles Creed, the Lords Prayer, and the ten Commandments, and to an­swer to some questions of this short Catechism; for it is often found that children are able to do all this at four or five years old. 2dly, It crosses what is said in the third Reason of the 1. Rubrick before Confirmation, con­cerning the usage of the Church in times past, or­daining that Confirmation should be ministred un­to them that were of perfect age, that they being Instructed in the Christian Religion, should openly profess their own Faith, and promise to be obedient to the will of God. And therefore (3dly,) we de­sire that none may be confirmed but according to his Majesties Declaration. viz. That Confirmation be rightly and solemnly performed by the information, and with the consent of the Minister of the place.

Rubrick after the Catechism.

Then shall they be brought to the Bishop by one that shall be his God­father, or Godmother.

This seems to bring in another sort of Godfathers and Godmothers, besides those made use of in Bap­tism; and we see no need either of the one, or the other.

The Prayer before the Imposition of hands.

Who hast vouchsafed to regenerate these thy servants by Water and the Holy Ghost, and hast given unto them the forgiveness of all their sins.

This supposeth that all the Chil­dren who are brought to be Confir­med, have the Spirit of Christ, and the forgiveness of all their sins: Whereas [Page 27] a great number of Children at that age, having committed many sins since their Baptism, do shew no evidence of serious Repentance, or of any special saving grace: And therefore this Confirmation (if admi­nistred to such) would be a perillous and gross abuse.

Rubrick before the Imposition of hands

Then the Bishop shall lay his hand on every Child severally.

This seems to put a higher value upon Confirmation, then upon Bap­tism or the Lords Supper; for accor­ding to the Rubrick and order in the Common-Prayer-Book, every Deacon may baptize, and every Minister may consecrate and administer the Lords Supper, but the Bishop onely may confirm.

The prayer after Imposition of hands.

We make our humble supplications unto thee for these Children; upon whom, after the example of thy holy Apostles, we have laid our hands, to certifie them by this sign of thy favor and gracious goodness towards them.

We desire that the practice of the Apostles may not be alledged as a ground of this Imposition of hands for the confirmation of children, both because the Apostles did never use it in that case, as also because the Articles of the Church of Eng­land declare it to be a corrupt imitation of the Apostles practice, Act. 25.

We desire that imposition of hands may not be made as here it is, a sign to certifie children of Gods Grace and favour towards them, because this seems to speak it a Sacrament, and is contrary to that fore­mentioned 25th. Article, which saith, that Confir­mation hath no visible sign appointed by God.

The last Rubrick after Confir­mation.

None shall be admitted to the ho­ly Communion, until such time as he can say the Catechism, and be con­firmed.

We desire that Confirmation may not be made so necessary to the ho­ly Communion, as that none should be admitted to it unless they be confirmed.

Of the Form of Solemnization of Matrimonie.

THe man shall give the Woman a Ring, &c.—shall surely per­forme and kéep the Now and Cove­nant betwixt them made, whereof this King given and received is a token and pledge, &c.

Seeing this Ceremony of the Ring in Marriage is made necessary to it, and a significant signe of the Vow and Covenant betwixt the parties; and Romish Ritualists give such reasons for the Use and Insti­tution of the Ring as are either frivolous or superstitious. It is desi­red that this Ceremony of the Ring in Marriage may be left indifferent to be used or forborn.

The man shall say, With my bo­dy I thee worship.

This word [worship] being much altered in the Use of it since this Form was first drawn up; Wee de­sire some other word may be used instead of it.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

These words being only used in Baptism, and herein the solemniza­tion of Matrimony, and in the ab­solution of the Sick; Wee defire it may be considered whether they should not be here omitted, least they should seem to favour those who count Matrimony a Sacrament.

Till death us depart.

This word [depart] is here impro­perly used.

Rubrick.

Then the Minister or Clerk going to the Lords Table shall say or sing this Psalm.

Exception.

We conceive this change of place and posture mentioned in these two Rubricks is needless, and there­fore desire it may be omitted.

Next Rubr.

The Psalm ended, and the Man and the Woman knéeling [Page 29] before the Lords Table, the Priest standing at the Table, and turning his face, &c.

Collect.

Consecrated the state of Matri­mony to such an excellent Mystery.

Exception.

Seeing the Institution of Marriage was before the Fall, and so before the Promise of Christ, as also for that the said passage in this Collect seems to countenance the Opinion of ma­king Matrimony a Sacrament, we de­sire that clause may be altered or omitted.

Rubrick.

Then shall begin the Communion, and after the Gospel shall be said a Sermon, &c.

Exception.

This Rubrick doth either en­force all such as are unfit for the Sa­crament to forbear Marriage, con­trary to Scripture, which approves the Marriage of all men; or else compels all that marry to come to the Lords Table, though never so unprepared: And therefore we de­sire it may be omitted, the rather because that Marriage Festivals are too often accompanied with such divertisements as are unsuitable to those Chri­stian Duties which ought to be before and follow after the receiving of that Holy Sacrament.

Last Rubrick.

The new Married persons the same day of their Marriage must receive the holy Communion.

Of the Order for the Visitation of the Sick.

Rubr. Before Absolution.

HEre shall the sick person make a special Confession, &c. after which Confession the Priest shall absolve him after this sort: Our Lord Jesus Christ, &c. and by his Authority com­mitted to mee I absolve thee.

Exception.

Forasmuch as the Conditions of sick persons be very various and different, the Minister may not on­ly in the Exhortation but in the Prayer also be directed to apply himself to the particular condition of the person▪ as he shall finde most suitable to the present occasion, with due regard had both to his spiritual condition and bodily weakness, and that the absolution may only be re­commended to the Minister to be used or omitted as he shall see occasion.

That the form of Absolution be Declarative & Conditional, as [I pronounce thee absolved] instead of [I absolve thee] if thou doest truly repent & believe.

Of the Communion of the sick.

Rubrick.

But if the sick person be not able to come in Church, yet is desirous to re­ceive the Communion in his house; then he must give knowledge over-night, or else early in the morning, to the Curate, and having a convenient place in the sick mans house, he shall there administer the holy Commu­nion.

Consider, that many sick persons either by their ignorance or vicious life, without any evident manifesta­tion of repentance, or by the na­ture of the Disease disturbing their Intellectuals, be unfit for receiving the Sacrament. It is proposed, that the Minister be not enjoined to ad­minister the Sacrament to every sick person that shall desire it, but only as he shall judge expedient.

Of the Order for the Burial of the Dead.

WEe desire it may be expressed in a Rubrick, that the Prayers [...]d Exhortations here used are not for the benefit of th [...] De [...]d, [...] for the instruction and comfort of the of the Living.

First Rubr.

The Priest meeting the Corps at the Church Stile shall say, or else the Priest and Clark shall sing, &c.

Wee desire that Ministers may be left to use their discretion in these circumstances, and to perform the whole service in the Church, if they think fit, for the preventing of these inconveniences which many times both Minister and people are expo­sed unto by standing in the open Air.

The second Rubrick.

When they come to the Grave, the Priest shall say, &c.

[Page 31] Forasmuch as it hath pleased Al­mighty God, of his great mercy to take unto himself the soul of our dear Brother here departed: We there­fore commit his body to the ground in sure and certain hope of resurrection to eternal life.

These words cannot in truth be said of persons living and dying in open and notorious sins.

The first Prayer.

We give thee hearty thanks for that it hath pleased [...]ee to deliver this our Brother out of the miseries of this [...] world, &c.

That we with this our Brother, and all other departed in the true Faith of the holy Name, may have our perfect Confirmation and Eliss.

These words may harden the wicked, and are inconsistent with the largest rational charity.

The last Prayer.

That when we depart this life, we may rest in him, as our hope is this our Brother deth.

These words cannot be used with respect to those persons who have not by their actual repentance gi­ven any ground for the hope of their blessed estate.

Of the thanksgiving of women after Child-birth, commonly called, Churching of Women.

The woman shall come unto the Church, and there shall kneel down in some convenient place nigh unto the place where the Table stands, and the Priest standing by her, shalt say, &c.

In regard that the womans kn [...]el­ing near the Table is in many Chur­ches inconvenient, we desire that these words may be left out, & that the Minister may perform that ser­vice either in the De [...]k or Pulpit.

Rubrick.

Then the Priest shall say this Psalm 121.

O Lord save this woman thy ser­vant.

Ans. which puttteth her trust in thee.

Exception▪

This Psalm seems not to be so pertinent as some other, viz as Psal. 113. and Psal. 128.

It may fall out that a woman may come to give thanks for a child born in Adultery or Fornication, and therefore we desire that something may be required of her by way of profession of her humiliation, as well as of her Thanksgiving.

Last Rubr.

The woman that comes to give Thanks, must offer the accustomed offerings.

This may seem too like a Jewish purification, rather then a Christi­an Thanksgiving.

The same Rubrick.

And if there be a Communion, it is convenient that she receive the holy Communion.

We desire this may be interpreted of the duly qualified; for a scanda­lous sinner may come to make this Thanksgiving.

Thus have we in all humble pursuance of his Majesties most gra­cious endeavours for the publike weal of this Church, drawn up our Thoughts and Desires in this weighty Affair, which we hum­bly offer to His Majesties Commissioners for their serious & grave Consideration, wherein we have not the least thought of depraving or reproaching the Book of Common-Prayer, but a sincere desire to contribute our endeavours towards the healing the distempers, and (as soon as may be) reconciling the minds of Brethren. And inas­much as his Majesty hath in his gracious Declaration and Commis­sion mentioned new forms to be made and suted to the several parts of Worship; We have made a considerable Progress therein, and sh [...]ll (by Gods assistance) offer them to the Reverend Commission­ers with all convenient speed, And if the Lord shall graciously please to give a blessing to these our endeavours, We doubt not but the peace of the Church will be thereby setled; the hearts of Mini­sters and people comforted and composed, and the great Mercy of Unity and Stability (to the immortal Honor of our most dear Sove­raign) bestowed upon us and our posterity after us.

To the most Reverend Archbishop & Bishops, And the Reverend their ASSISTANTS, Commissioned by his Majesty to treat a­bout the Alteration of the Book of COMMON-PRAYER.

Most Reverend Fathers, and Reverend Brethren,

WHen we received your Papers, and were told that they contai­ned not onely an Answer to our Exceptions against the pre­sent Liturgie; but also several Concessions, wherein you seem willing to joyn with us in the Alteration and Reformation of it: Our Ex­pectations were so far raised, as that we promised our selves to find your Concessions so considerable, as would have greatly conduced to the [...]ealing of our much-to-be-lamented Divisions, the setling of the Nation in Peace, and the satisfaction of tender Consciences, according to his Majesties most gracious Declaration, and his Royal Commission in pursuance thereof: But having taken a survey of them, we finde our selves exceedingly disap­pointed, and that they will fall far short of attaining those happy Ends, for which this Meeting was first designed; as may appear both by the pa [...] ­city of the Concessions, and the inconsiderableness of them, they being for the most part Verbal and Literal, rather then Real and Substantial; for in them you allow not the laying aside of the reading of the Apocrypha for Lessons, though it shut out some hundreds of Chapters of Holy Scri­pture; and sometimes the Scripture it self is made to give way to the A­pocryphal Chapters. You plead against the addition of the Doxologie [Page] unto the Lords Prayer. You give no liberty to omit the too frequent repe­tition of Gloria Patri, nor of the Lords Prayer in the same publick Ser­vice: nor do you yeild that the Psalms be read in the new Translation, nor the word [Priest] to be changed for [Minister or Presbyter,] though both have been yeilded unto in the Scotish Liturgie. You grant not the omission of the Responsals, no not in the Letany it self, though the Petitions be so framed, as the People make the Prayer, and not the Minister; nor to read the Communion-Service in the Desk, when there is no Communion; but in the late Form instead thereof, it is enjoyned to be done at the Ta­ble, though there be no Rubrick in the Common-Prayer-Book requiring it. You plead for the Holiness of Lent, contrary to the Statute. You indulge not the omission of any one Ceremony. You will force men to kneel at the Sacrament, and yet not put in that excellent Rubrick in the v. and vi. of Edw. 6. which would much conduce to the satisfaction of many that scruple it. And whereas divers Reverend Bishops and Doctors, in a Paper in print before these unhappy Wars began, yeilded to the laying a­side of the Cross, and the making many material alterations; you, after twenty years sad calamities and Divisions, seem unwilling to grant what they of their own accord then offered. You seem not to grant that the clause of the fourth Commandment in the Common-Prayer-Book, (The Lord blessed the seventh day) should be altered according to the Hebr. Exod. 20. The Lord blessed the Sabbath day. You will not change the word Sunday into the Lords Day, nor adde any thing to make a diffe­rence between Holy-days that are of Humane Institution, and the Lords Day, that is questionless of Apostolical practice. You will not alter Dead­ly Sin in the Letany into Heynous Sin, though it hints to us that some sins are in their own nature Venial; nor that Answer in the Catech. of Two Sacraments onely generally necessary to salvation, although it inti­mates that there are other New Testaments Sacraments, though Two onely necessary to Salvation. You speak of singing Davids Psalms, al­lowed by Authority, by way of contempt, calling them Hopkins Psalms: And though singing of Psalms be an Ordinance of God, yet you call it one of our principal parts of Worship, as if it were disclaimed by you. And are so far from countenancing the use of conceived Prayer in the publick Worship of God, (though we never intended thereby the exclu­ding of set Forms) as that you seem to dislike the use of it even in the Pulpit, and heartily desire a total restraint of it in the Church. You will not allow the omission of the Benedicite, nor a Psalm to be read instead of it; nor so much as abate the reading of the Chapters out of the Old [Page] Testament and the Acts, for the Epistles: But rather then you will gratifie us therein, you have found out a new Device, that the Minister shall say (for the Epistle) you will not so much as leave out in the Collect for Christ­mas-day these words (this day) though at least, it must be a great un­certainty, and cannot be true stylo veteri, & novo. In publick Baptism you are so far from giving a Liberty to the Parent to answer for his own Child, (which seems most reasonable) as that you force him to the use of Sureties, and cause them to answer in the name of the Infant, that he doth believe, and repent, and forsake the Devil and all his works; which doth much f [...]vour the Anabaptistical Opinion for the necessity of an actual profession of Faith and Repentance in order to Baptism. You will not leave the Minister in the Visitation of the Sick, to use his judgement or discretion in absolving the sick person, or giving the Sacrament to him, but enjoyn both of them, though the person to his own judgement seem never so unfit: neither do you allow the Minister to pronounce the Abso­lution in a Declarative and Conditional way, but absolutely, and incon­ditionately. And even in one of your Concessions, in which we suppose you intend to accommodate with us, you rather widen then heal the breach; for in your last Rubr. before the Catech. you would have the words thus altered, That children being baptized, have all things necessary for salvation; and dying before they commit any actual sin, be un­doubtedly saved, though they be not confirmed: Which Assertion, if understood of all Infants, even of Heathen, is certainly false; and if onely of the Infants of Christians, is doubtful, and contrary to the judgement of many learned Protestants, and will give little satisfaction to us or others: some more we might name, which for brevities sake we o­mit. All which considered, we altogether despair of that happy success which Thousands hope and wait for from this his Majesties Commission; unless God shall incline your hearts for the Peace and Vnion of the Nati­on, to a more considerable and satisfactory alteration of the Liturgie. In which that we may the better prevail, we here tender a Reply to your An­swer, both against our general and particular Exceptions; of which we desire a serious perusal, and candid interpretation. We have divided both your Preface and Answer into several Sections, that so you might more easily understand to which of the particulars both in the one and in the other our Reply doth refer.

THE PAPERS That passed between the COMMISSIONERS Appointed by his Majesty for the Alteration of the Common-Prayer, &c.

THe strain of these Papers we fear is like to perswade many that your designe is not the same with ours.Reply. Being assured, that it is our Duty to do what we can to the peace and concord of Believers, especially when we had the past and present Calamities of these Nations to urge us, and his Majesties Commands and gratious Promises to encourage us, we judged the fittest means to be by making known the hindrances of our Concord, and without reviving the remembrance of those things that tend to exasperate, to apply our selves with due submission to those that may contribute much to our recovery; and without personal reflections, to propose the Remedies which we knew would be most effectual, and humbly and earnestly to petition you for your consent. But in stead of con­sent, or amicable Debates in order to the removal of our differences, [Page 2] we have received from you a Paper abounding with sharp Accusati­ons, as if your work were to prove us bad, and make us odious; which as it is attempted upon mistake, by unrighteous means, so were it accomplished, we know not how it will conduce to the Concord which ought to be our common end. If we understand Christs Commission, or the Kings, and our duty as Christians, or as Ministers, our work now assigned us, was not to search after, and aggravate the faults of one another, (though of our own in season we are willing to hear) but to review the Liturgie, and agree upon such alterations, diminutions and enlargements as are needful to our common unity and peace. What is amiss in us, we shall thankfully accept your cha­ritable assistance to discover; but we take not that for the Question which his Majesty called us to debate, nor do our judgements or dispositions lead us to Recriminations, nor to cast such impediments in the way of our desired accord: And were it not that our Calling, and our Masters work are concerned somewhat in our just Vindicati­on, we should not trouble you with so low, so private and unnecessary a work, but leave such Causes to the righteous Judge, who will quick­ly, impartially, infallibly and finally decide them.

PREFACE.

BEfore we come to the Proposals,Answer. it will be perhaps necessary to say a word or two to the Preface, Sect. 1. wherein they begin with a thankful acknowledgement of his Majesties most Princely condescention; to which we shall onely say, That we conceive the most real Expression of their thank­fulness had been an hearty complyance with his Majesties earnest and pas­sionate request for the use of the present Liturgie, at least so much of it as they acknowledge by these Papers to be lawful: how far they have in this expressed their thankfulness, the world sees, we need not say.]

1. AS we hope it is no matter of offence to acknowledge his Maje­sties gratious condescention;Reply. so when his Majesty by his Declaration hath granted us some liberty as to the use of the Litur­gie before the alteration, and hath by his Commission engaged us in a Consultation for the alteration of it; we conceive our Brethren (nor the world, to whose observation they appeal) had no warrant to censure us as unthankful to his Majesty, because of our present for­bearance to use it, or part of it, before the intended alteration; at least [Page 3] till they had heard us speak for our selves, and render an account of the reasons of our forbearance, and they had gone before us more ex­emplarily in their own obedience to his Majesties Declaration. As to our own Consciences, if we thought not the Common-Prayer-Book to be guilty of the general and particular faults which we have laid open to you, we durst not have found fault with it: and while we took it to be a defective, disorderly and inconvenient mode of Wor­ship, it would be our sin to use it of choice, while we may prefer a more convenient way, what ever we ought to do in case of necessity, when we must worship God inconveniently, or not at all. And as to our people, for whose edification and not destruction we have our power or offices, we have taken that course, as far as we are able to under­stand, which most probably tended to their good, and to prevent their hurt and separation from the Church: and consequently, that course which did most conduce to his Majesties ends, and to his real service, and the Churches peace: none of which would be promoted by our obtruding that upon our people, which we know them unable to di­gest, or by our hasty offending them with the use of that, which we are forced to blame, and are endeavouring to correct and alter. And we see not how it can be justly intimated that we use no part of it, when we use the Lords Prayer, the Creed, the Commandments, the Psalms, the Chapters, and some other parts; and how much more you expect we should have used, that we might have escaped this brand of In­gratitude, we know not. But we know that Charity suffereth long, and thinketh no evil, (1 Cor. 13 4, 5.) and that we have not attemp­ted to obtrude any mode of Worship on our Brethren, but desired the liberty to use things of that nature as may conduce to the benefit of our Flocks: And as we leave them to judge what is most benefi­cial to their own Flocks, who know them, and are upon the place; so it is but the like freedome which we desire: We are loath to hurt our people knowingly. The time is short; if you will answer our reasonable Proposals, it will not be too late at the expiration of our Commission, or the date of the reformed Liturgie, to use it: greater liberty hath been used about Liturgies in purer times of the Church, with less offence and accusation.

[It can be no just cause of offence to mind them of their duty,Answer. as they do us of ours;Sect. 2. telling us, It is our duty to imitate the Apostles practise in a special manner; to be tender of the Churches peace, and to advise of such [Page 4] Expedients, as may conduce to the healing of breaches, and uniting those that differ: for preserving of the Churches peace we know no bettter nor more efficatious way then our set Liturgie, there being no such way to keep us from Schism, as to speak all the same thing, according to the Apostle.]

If you look to the time past,Reply. by our Duties we suppose you mean our Faults; for it is not Duty when it's past: If you in these words respect onely the time present and to come, we reply, 1. The Li­turgie we are assured will not be a less, but a more probable means of Concord after the desired Reformation then before; the defects and inconveniences make it less fit to attain the end. 2. VVhether the Apostle by [speaking the same thing,] did mean either [all using this Liturgie of ours,] or [all using any one form of Liturgie as to the words] may easily be determined. This is of much later date, un­less you will denominate the whole form of the Lords Prayer, and some little parts. And those that affirm, that the Apostles then had any o­ther, must undertake the task of proving it, and excusing the Chur­ches for loosing and dis-using so precious a Relict; which if preser­ved, would have prevented all our strifes about these things. And in the mean time they must satisfie our Arguments for the Negative: as, 1. If a Liturgie had been indited by the Apostles for the Chur­ches, being by universal Officers inspired by the Holy Ghost, and so of universal use, it would have been used and preserved by the Church as the Holy Scriptures were. But so it was not. Ergo, no such Li­turgie was indited by them for the Churches. 2. If a prescript form of words had been delivered them, there would have been no such need of exhorting them to speak the same thing, for the Litur­gie would have held them close enough to that. And if the meaning had been [see that you use the same Liturgie,] some word or other to some of the Churches would have acquainted us with the existence of such a thing; and some reproofs we should have found of those that used various Liturgies, or formed Liturgies of their own, or used extemporary Prayers; and some express Exhortations to use the same Liturgie or Forms: but the holy Scripture is silent in all those matters. It is apparent therefore that the Churches then had no Li­turgie, but took liberty of extemporate Expressions, and spoke in the things of God, as men do in other matters, with a natural plainness and seriousness, suiting their Expressions to the subjects and occasi­ons. And though Divisions began to disturb their Peace and holy [Page 5] Orders, the Apostle in stead of prescribing them a form of Di [...]ine Services for their unity and concord, do exhort them to use their gifts and liberties aright, and speak the same thing for mat­ter, avoiding Disagreements, though they used not the same words. 3. Just. Martyr, Tertull. and others sufficiently inti­mate to us, that the Churches quickly after the Apostles, did use the personal Abilities of their Pastours in Prayer, and give us no hint of any such Liturgie of Apostolical fabrication and im­position, and therefore doubtless there was nothing, for it could not have been so soon lost or neglected. 4. It is ordinary with those of the contrary Judgement, to tell us that the extraordi­nary Gifts of the Primitive Christians, were the reason why there were no prescribed forms in those times, and that such Liturgies came in upon the ceasing of those Gifts: and 1 Cor. 14. describeth a way of publick worshipping, unlike to prescript forms of Liturgie: so that the matter of Fact is proved and con­fessed. And then how fairly the words of the Apostle, exhor­ting them [to speak the same thing,] are used to prove that he would have them use the same Forms or Liturgie, we shall not tell you by any provoking Aggravations of such abuse of Scri­pture. And indeed for all the miraculous Gifts of those times, if prescript Forms had been judged by the Apostles to be the fit­test means for the concord of the Churches, it is most probable they would have prescribed such: considering, 1. That the said miraculous Gifts were extraordinary, and belonged not to all, nor to any at all times; and therefore could not suffice for the ordinary publick Worship. 2. And those Gifts began even betimes to be abused, and need the Apostles Canons for their regulation, which he giveth them in that 1 Cor. 14. without a prescript Liturgie. 3. Because even then divisions had made not onely an entrance, but an unhappy progress in the Churches; to cure which, the Apostle exhorts them oft to Unanimity and Concord, without exhorting them to read the same, or any Common-Prayer-Book. 4. Because that the Apostles knew that perilous times would come, in which men would have itching ears, and would have heaps of Teachers, and would be self-willed, and unruly, and divisions, and offences, and here­sies would encrease: and ergo, as upon such fore-sight they in­dited the holy Scriptures to keep the Church in all Generatio [...]s [Page 6] from errour and divisions in points of Doctrine; so the same reason and care would have moved them to do the same to keep the Churches in unity in point of VVorship, if indeed they had taken prescribed Forms to be needful to such an Unity: They knew that after their departure the Church would never have the like advantage, infallible, authorized and enabled for deli­vering the universal Law of Christ: And seeing in those parts of VVorship, which are of stated use, and still the same, Forms might have suited all Ages as this Age, and all Countries as this Country (in the substance) there can no reason be given, why the Apostles should leave this undone, and not have performed it themselves, if they had judged such Forms to be necessary, or the most desirable means of unity. If they had prescribed them, 1. The Church had been secured from errour in them. 2. Be­lievers had been preserved from divisions about the lawfulness and fitness of them, as receiving them from God. 3. All Churches and Countries might had one Liturgie, as they have one Scripture, and so have all spoke the same things. 4. All Ages would have had the same without innovation, (in all the parts that require not alteration) whereas now on the contra­ry; 1. Our Liturgies being the Writings of fallible men, are lyable to errour, and we have cause to fear subscribing to them, as having nothing contrary to the Word of God. 2. And mat­ters of Humane Institution have become the matter of scruple and contention. 3. And the Churches have had great diversi­ty of Liturgies. 4. And one Age hath been mending what they supposed they received from the former faulty, and imperfect: So that our own which you are so loath to change, hath not con­tinued yet three Generations. And it is most evident, that the Apostles being entrusted with the delivery of the entire rule of Faith and Worship, and having such great advantages for our u­nity and peace, would never have omitted the forming of a Li­turgie of universal usefulness, to avoid all the foresaid inconve­niences, if they had taken this course of unity to be so needful or desirable as you seem to do. Whereas therefore you say you know no better or more efficatio [...]s way then our Liturgie, &c. We reply, 1. The Apostles knew the best way of unity, and of speaking the same thing in the matters of God: But the Apo­stles knew not our Liturgie, (nor any Common-Prayer-Book, [Page 7] for ought hath yet been proved.) Ergo, the said Liturgie is not the best way of unity, or speaking the same thing, &c. 2. The Primitive Church in the next Ages after the Apostles, knew the best way of unity, &c. But they knew not our Liturgie. Ergo, our Liturgie (not known till lately) is not the best way of unity. If it be said that our Liturgie is ancient, because the Sursum Cor­da, the Gloria Patri, &c. are ancient: We answer, If indeed it be those ancient sentences that denominate our Liturgie, we erave the Justice to be esteemed Users of the Liturgie, and not to suffer as Refusers of it, as long as we use all that is found in it of such true antiquity.

[This experience of former and latter times hath taught us,Answer. when the Liturgie was duly observed,Sect. 3. we lived in peace; since that was laid aside, there hath been as many modes and fashions of publick Worship, as fancies: we have had continual dissention, which variety of Ser­vices must needs produce, whilst every one naturally desires and en­deavors not onely to maintain, but to prefer his own way before all o­thers: whence we conceive there is no such way to the preservation of peace, as for all to return to the strict use and practise of the Form.]

Pardon us while we desire you to examine whether you speak as members that suffer with those that suffer,Reply. or rather as insen­sible of the calamities of your Brethren, that is as uncharitable: you say you lived in peace, but so did not the many thousands that were fain to seek them peaceable habitations in Holland, and in the deserts of America; nor the many thousands that lived in danger of the High-Commission, or Bishops Courts at home, and so in danger of every malitious Neighbour that would accuse them of hearing Sermons abroad, when they had none at home; or of meeting in a Neighbors house to pray, or of not kneeling in the receiving of the Sacrament, &c. We would not have remem­bred you of these things, but that you necessitate us by pleading your peace in those days as an Argument for the imposing of the Liturgie. 2. Might not Scotland as strongly argue from this Medi­um against the Liturgie and say, [Before the Liturgie was impo­sed on us, we had peace, but since then we have had no peace?] 3. When the strict imposing of the strict use and practise of these Forms was the very thing that disquieted this Nation, (taking in [Page 8] the concomitant Ceremonies and Subscription) when this was it that bred the divisions which you complain of, and caused the separations from the Churches, and the troubles in the Chur­ches: it is no better arguing to say, We must return to the strict use of that Form if we will have peace, then it was in the Israe­lites to say, [We will worship the Queen of Heaven, because then we had peace and plenty,] when that was it that deprived them of peace and plenty; (we compare not the Causes, but the Argu­ments:) nor is it any better Argument then if a man in a Drop­sie or Ague, that catcht it with voracity or intemperance, should say, [While I did eat and drink liberally, I had no Dropsie or Ague, but since my appetite is gone, and I have lived temperate­ly, I have had no health; Ergo, I must return to my intempe­rance, as the onely way to health.] Alas! Is this the use that is made of all our experiences of the causes and progress of our Calamities? What have you and we, and all smarted as we have done, and are you so speedily ready to return to the way that will engage you in violence against them that should be suf­fered to live in peace? If the furnace that should have refined us, and purified us all to a greater height of love, have but en­flamed us to greater wrath, wo to us, and to the Land that bear­eth us. What doleful things doth this prognosticate you, that Prisons, or other penalties, will not change mens Judgements: And if it drive some to comply against their Consciences, and de­stroy their Souls, and drive the more conscientious out of the Land, or destroy their bodies, and breed in mens mindes a root­ed opinion, that Bishops that are still hurting and afflicting them, (even for the things in which they exercise the best of their un­derstanding, and cautelously to avoid sin against God) are no Fa­thers, Friends or Edifiers, but Destroyers; alas! who will have the gain of this? O let us no more bite and devour one ano­ther, lest we be devoured one of another, Gal. 5. 15. or Christ be provoked to decide the Controversie more sharply then we de­sire or expect. 4. But really, hath liberty to forbear the Liturgie produced such divisions as you mention? The licence or conni­vance that was granted to Hereticks, Apostates, and foul-mouthed raylers against the Scripture, Ministry, and all Gods Ordinances, indeed bred confusions in the Land; but it is to us matter of ad­miration to observe (clean contrary to your intimation) how [Page 9] little discord there was in Prayer, and other parts of Worship a­mong all the Churches throughout the three Nations, that a­greed in Doctrine, and that forbore the Liturgie. It is wonderful to us in the review to consider, with what love, and peace, and concord, they all spoke the same things that were tied to no Form of words, even those that differed in some points of Discipline, even to a with-drawing from local Communion with us, yet strangely agreed with us in Worship. And where have there been less Heresies, Schisms, then in Scotland, where there was no such Liturgie to unite them? If you tell us of those that differ from us in Doctrine, and are not of us, it is as impertinent to the point of our own agreement in VVorship, as to tell us of the Papists.

[And the best expedients to unite us all to that again,Answer. and so to peace, are,Sect. 4. besides our Prayers to the God of peace, to make us all of one mind in an house, to labour to get true humility, which would make us think our Guides wiser, and fitter to order us then we our selves; & Christian charity, which would teach us to think no evil of our Superiors, but to judge them rather careful Guides and Fathers to us: which being ob­tained, nothing can be imagined justly to hinder us from a ready com­plyance to this method of service appointed by them, & so live in unity]

Prayer and Humility are indeed the necessary means of peace:Reply. But if you will let us pray for peace in no words but what are in the Common-Prayer Book, their brevity and unaptness, and the customariness, that will take off the edge of fervour with hu­mane nature, will not give leave (or help sufficient) to our souls to work towards God, upon this subject, with that enlarged­ness, copiousness and freedome as is necessary to due fervour. A brief transient touch, and away, is not enough to warm the heart aright; and cold Prayers, are like to have a cold return; and therefore even for peace sake, let us pray more copiously and heartily then the Common-Prayer-Book will help us to do. And whether this be that cause, or whether it be that the Com­mon-Prayer-Book hath never a Prayer for it self, we finde that its Prayers prevail not to reconcile many sober, serious persons to it, that live in faithful fervent Prayer. 2. And for Humility, we humbly conceive it would most effectually heal us, & by cau­sing the Pastors of the Church to know that they are not to rule the flocks as Lords, but as ensamples; not by constraint, but [Page 10] willingly, 1 Pet. 5. 2, 3. and it would cause them not to think so lightly of themselves, and so meanly of their Brethren, as to judge no words fit to be used to God in the publick Worship, but what they prescribe, and put into our mouths; and that other men are generally unable to speak sensibly or suitably, unless they tell us what to say; or that all others are unfit to be trusted with the expressing of their own desires: Humility would perswade the Pastors of the Church at least to undertake no more then the A­postles did, and no more to obtrude or impose their own words upon all others in the publick Worship: if they found any unfit to be trusted with the expression of their minds in publick Prayer, they would do what they could to get meeter men in their pla­ces; and till then, they would restrain, and help such as need it; and not upon that pretence, as much restrain all the ablest Mini­sters, as if the whole Church were to be nominated, measured, or used according to the quality of the most unworthy. And it is also true, that humility in private persons and inferiours, would do much to our peace, by keeping them in due submission and o­bedience, and keeping them from all contentions and divisions, which proceed from self-conceitedness and pride. But yet, 1. The humblest, surest Subjects may stumble upon the scruple, whether Bishops differ not from Presbyters onely in degree, and not in order or office, (it being a Controversie, and no resolved point of Faith even among the Papists, whose Faith is too extensive, and favor too Ecclesiastical, ambition too great) and consequently they may doubt whether men in the same order, do by Divine appointment owe obedience unto those that gradually go be­fore them. 2. And they may scruple whether such making them­selves the Governours of their Brethren, make not themselves in [...]eed of a different order of office, and so encroach not on the authority of Christ, who onely maketh Officers purely Ecclesiasti­cal; and whether it be no disloyalty to Christ to own such Offi­cers. 3. And among those Divines that are for a threefold Epis­copacy, (besides that of Presbyters, who are Episcopi Gre [...]is) viz. general unfixed Bishops, like the Evangelists or Apostles, (in their measure) and the fixed Bishops of Parochial Churches, that have Presbyters to assist them, to whom they do preside, and also the Presidents of larger Synods; yet is it a matter of very great doubt, whether a fixed Diocesan being the Pastor of many hun­dred [Page 11] Churches, having none under him, that hath the power of Jurisdiction or Ordination, be indeed a Governor of Christs ap­pointment or approbation; and whether Christ will give us any more thanks for owning them as such, then the King will give us for owning a [...] Usurper. Humility alone will not seem to subject these men to such a Government. 4. And though their coercive Magistra [...]ical power be easily submitted to, as from the King, (how unfit Subjects soever Church-men are of such a power) yet he that knoweth his superiours best, doth honour God more, and supposeth God more infallible then man, and will feel himself most indispensibly bound by Gods commands, and bound not to obey man against the Lord. And whereas there is much said a­gainst the peoples taking on them to judge of the lawfulness of things commanded them by superiours, we add, 5. That humble men may believe that their superiours are fallible; that it is no impossibility to command things that God forbids; that in such cases, if we have sufficient means to discern the sinfulness of such commands, we must make use of them, and must obey God rather then men; that when the Apostles acted according to such a re­solution, Act. 4. 19. and Daniel and the three VVitnesses, Dan. 6. & 3. they all exercised a judgment of discerning upon the matter of their superiours commands; that not to do so at all, is to make Subjects Brutes, and so no Subjects, because not rational free A­gents, or to make all Governours to be Gods: and lastly, that it will not save us from Hell, nor justifie us at Judgement for sinning against God, to say that superiours commanded us; nor will it prove all the Martyrs to be sinners and condemned, because they judged of their superiours commands, and disobeyed them. All which we say, to shew the insufficiency of the Remedy here by you propounded, (the humility of Inferiours) unless you will also add your help; without obedience there is no order or lasting concord to be expected: And by abasing the eternal God, so far as to set him and his Laws below a creature, under pretence of obedience to the creature, no good can be expected, because no peace with heaven; without which, peace with men is but a con­federacy, hastning each party to destruction: and therefore ab­solute obedience must be given onely to God the absolute Sove­raign. In all this we suppose that we are all agreed: and there­fore, 6. and lastly, we must say that the way to make us think [Page 12] the Bishops to be so wise, and careful Guides and Fathers to us, is nor for them to seem wiser then the Apostles, and make those things of standing necessity to the Churches unity, which the A­postles never made so; nor to forbid all to preach the Gospel, or to hold Communion with the Church, that dare not conform to things unnecessary. Love and tenderness are not used to express themselves by hurting and destroying men for nothing; and to silence and reject from Church-Communion for a [...]eremony, and in the mean time to perswade men that they love them, is but to stab or famish all the sick persons in the Hospital or Fa­mily, whose stomacks cannot take down the d [...]sh we offer them, or whose throats are too narrow to swallow so big a morsel as we send them; and when we have done, to tell them, the onely re­medy is for them to believe we love them, and are tender of them. And who knows not that a man may think well of his Su­periours, that yet may question whether all that he teacheth or commandeth him, be lawful?

[If it be objected,Answer. That the Liturgie is in any way sinful and un­lawful for us to joyn with,Sect. 5. it is but reason that this be first proved evi­dently, before any thing be altered: it is no Argument to say, That multitudes of sober pious persons scruple the use of it, unless it be made to appear by evident reasons, that the Liturgie gave the just grounds to make such scruples. For if the bare pretence of scruples be suff [...]cient to exempt us from Obedience, all Law and Order is gone.]

To this passage we humbly crave your consideration of these Answers:Reply. 1. VVe have not onely said, that sober pious Persons scruple the Liturgie, but we have opened to you those defects and disorders, and corruptions, which must needs make the im­posing of it unlawful, when God might be more fitly served. 2. It is strange that you must see it first evidently proved unlawful for men to joyn with the Liturgie, (you mean, we suppose, to joyn with you in the using of it, or when you [...]e it) before you will see reason to alter any thing in it: What if it be onely proved unlawful for you to impose it, though not for others to joyn with you when you do impose it, is this no reason to alter it? Should you not have some care to avoid sin your selves, as well as to pre­serve others from it? An inconvenient mode of VVorship is a [Page 13] sin in the Imposer, and in the Chuser, and voluntary User, that might offer God better, and will not, Mal. 1. 13, 14. And yet it may not be onely lawful, but a duty to him that by violence is necessitated to offer up that or none. And yet we suppose the Imposers should see cause to make an Alteration. If you lived where you must re­ceive the Lords Supper sitting, or not at all, it's like you would be of this mind your selves. 3. Why should it be called [A bare pretence of Scruples?] as if you searched the hearts, and knew (not only that they are upon mistake, but) that they are not real, when the persons not onely profess them real, but are willing to use all just means that tend to their satisfaction: they study, read, pray, and will be glad of Conference with you, at any time, upon equal terms, if they may be themselves believed. 4. Even groundless scruples about the matter of an unnecessary Law, which hath that which to the weak both is and will be an appearance of evil, may be sufficient to make it the Duty of Rulers to reverse their impositions, though they be not suffi­cient to justifie the Scrupulous. 5. If a man should think that he ought not to obey man even when he thinketh it is against the Com­mands of God, though he be uncertain, (as in case of going on an un­questioned Warfare, or doing Doegs execution, &c.) yet it follow­eth not, that [all Law and Order is gone,] as long as all Laws and Or­ders stand that are visibly subservient to the Laws of God, and to his Soveraignty, or consistent with them, and when the Subject sub­mitteth to suffering where he dare not obey.

[On the contrary we judge,Answer. that if the Liturgie should be altered as is there required,Sect. 6. not onely a multitude, but the generality of the soberest and most loyal Children of the Church of England would justly be offended, since such an alteration would be a virtual Concession that this Liturgie were an intolerable burden to tender consciences, a direct cause of Schism, a superstitious usage, (upon which pretences it is here desired to be alter­ed) which would at once both justifie all those which have so obstinately separated from it, as the onely pious, tender-conscienced men, and condemn all those that have adhered to that, in conscience of their duty and loyalty, with their loss or hazard of estates, lives and fortunes, as men superstitious, schismatical, and void of Religion and Conscience. For this reason, and th [...]se that follow, we cannot consent to such an alteration as is desired, till these pretences be proved, which we conceive in no wise to be done in these Papers; and shall give Reasons for this our Judgement.]

[Page 14] If the Liturgie should be altered,Reply. as is here required, and desired by us, that it could be no just offence to the generality (or any) of the soberest and most loyal Children of the Church, (as you speak) is easie to be proved, by laying together the considerations following: 1. Because it is by themselves confessed to be alterable, as not having it self its formal Constitution, till less then two hundred years ago. 2. And themselves affirm it to be not necessary to salvation, but a thing indifferent, while they exclude all higher institutions from the pow­er of the Church. 3. They confess it lawful to serve God without this Liturgie, without which he was served by other Churches above 1460 years, and without which he is now served by other Churches, when the contrary minded doubt whether with it he be lawfully ser­ved. 4. Those that desire the alteration, desire no more then to serve God as the Churches did in the days of the Apostles, that had their most infallible conduct. 5. And they offer also such Forms as are more unquestionable as to their congruency to the Word of God, and to the nature of the several parts of Worship. 6. And yet though they desire the surest concord, and an universal Reformation, they desire not to impose on others what they offer, but can thankfully ac­cept a Liberty to use what is to their own Consciences most unque­stionably safe, while other men use that which they like better. So that set all this together, with the consideration of the necessity of the preaching the Word, and Communion that is hereupon denyed, and you may see it proved, That to have such a Liturgie so altered, that is confessed alterable, for so desirable an end, for the use onely of those that cannot well use it, without urging others to any thing that they do themselves account unlawful, cannot be a matter of just of­fence to the generality of sober Children of the Church, nor to any one. And as to the reason given, it is apparently none: For, 1. Of those that scruple the unlawfulness of it, there are many that will not peremptorily affirm it unlawful, and condemn all that use it, but they dare not use it doubtingly themselves. 2. When our Papers were before you, we think it not just that you should say that it's here desi­red to be altered, on the pretence that it is a direct cause of Schism, and a superstitious usage: Have we any such expressions? If we have, let them be recited; if not, it is hard that this should even by you be thus affirmed as is said by us, which we have not said. VVe have said, [That the Ceremonies have been the Fountain of much evil, occasioning divisions, but not what you charge us to have said [Page 15] in words or sence. 3. And may not you alter them without appro­ving, or seeming to approve the reason upon which the alteration is desired, when you have so great store of other reasons? The King in his Declaration is far enough from seeming to own the Charge a­gainst the things which he was pleased graciously to alter so far as is there exprest. If a Patient have a conceit that some one thing would kill him, if he took it, the Physitian may well forbear him in that one thing, when it is not necessary to his health, without owning his rea­sons against it. If his Majesty have Subjects so weak as to contend a­bout things indifferent, and if both sides erre, one thinking them ne­cessary, and the other sinful; may he not gratifie either of them with­out seeming to approve their errour? By this reason of yours he is by other men in such a case necessitated to sin; for if he settle those things which some count necessary, he seems to approve of their opi­nion, that they are necessary; if he take them down when others call them sinful, he seems to own their charge of the sinfulness. But in­deed he needeth not to do either; he may take them down, or leave them indifferent; professedly for unity and peace, and professedly disown the Errours on both sides. We are sorry if any did esteem these Forms and Ceremonies any better then mutable indifferent Modes and Circumstances of Worship; and did hazard estate or life for them as any otherwise esteemed: And we are sorry, that by our Divisions the Adversary of Peace hath gotten so great an advantage a­gainst us, as that the Argument against necessary charitable forbearance is fetch'd from the interest of the reputation of the contending Par­ties, that things may not be abated to others which you confess are indifferent and alterable, and which many of them durst not use, though to save their lives. And this because it will make them thought the pious, tender conscienc'd men, and make others thought worse of. But with whom will it have these effects? Those that you call the generality of the sober loyal children of the Church, will think never the worse of themselves, because others have liberty to live by them, without these things: and the rest, whose liberties you deny, will think rather the worse of you, then the better, for denying them their liberty in the worshipping of God. You undoubtedly argue here against the interest of Reputation, which you stand for: Your Prefaces to your Indulgencies, and your open Professions; and (if you will needs have it so) your own Practises, will tell the world loud enough, that the things which you adhered to with so great ha­zards [Page 16] are still lawful in your Judgement, and it will be you honour, and adde to your reputation, to abate them to others, when it is in your power to be more severe. And if you refuse it, their sufferings will tell the world loud enough, that for their parts they still take them to be things unlawful. As for the Reasons by them produced to prove them sinful, they have been publickly made known in the Writings of many of them; in Ames his fresh suit against the Cere­monies, and in the Abridgement, &c. and in Bradshaws, Nicolls, and other mens Writings.

[To the first general Proposal,Answer. Prop. a. 1. we answer: That as to that part of it which requires that the matter of the Liturgie may not be private opinion or fancy,Sect. 1. that being the way to perpetuate Schism; the Church hath been careful to put nothing into the Liturgie, but that which is either evidently the Word of God, or what hath been generally received in the Catholick Church; neither of which can be called private opinion: and if the con­trary can be proved, we wish it out of the Liturgie.]

VVe call those Opinions which are not determined Certainties;Reply. and though the greater number should hold them as Opinions, they are not therefore the Doctrines of the Church, and therefore might be called private Opinions: but indeed we used not the word, (that we can finde:) the thing that we desired, was, that the materials of the Liturgie may consist of nothing doubtful, or questioned among pious, learned and Orthodox persons.] We said also, That the limi­ting Church-Communion to things of doubtful disputation, hath been in all Ages the ground of Schism and Separation, (which is not to say, that the Liturgie it self is a superstitious usage, or a direct cause of Schism.) And we cited the words of a learned man, (Mr. Hales) not as making every word our own, but as a Testimony ad hominem, because he was so highly valued by your selves, (as we sup­pose) and therefore we thought his words might be more regarded by you then our own. 2. Where you say, [That the Church hath been careful to put nothing in the Liturgie, but that which is either evi­dently the Word of God, or that which had been generally received in the Catholick Church:] VVe reply, 1. VVe suppose there is lit­tle or nothing now controverted between us, which you will say is e­vidently the VVord of God, either the Forms or Ceremonies, or any of the rest. 2. If by [in the Church,] you mean [not by the Church,] [Page 17] but by any part in the Church; how shall we know that they did well? And if by [the generality] you mean not All, but the Greater part, you undertake the proof of that which is not easie to be proved; it being so hard to judge of the majority of Persons in the Catholick Church, in any notable differences. VVe do take it for granted that you limit not the Catholick Church, as the Papists do, to the Confines of the Roman Empire; but indeed we can onely wish, that your As­sertion were true, while we must shew it to be untrue, if you speak of the Primitive Church, or of an universality of time, as well as place; (if not, it's more against you, that the Primitive Catholick Church was against you.) The very thing in question that containeth the rest, [That it's needful to the peace of the Church, that all the Churches under one Prince should use one Form of Liturgie,] was not recei­ved by the Catholick Church, nor by the generality in it; when it is so well known that they used diversitie of Liturgies and Customes in the Roman Empire. The generality in the Catholick Church recei­ved not the Lords Supper kneeling, at least on any Lords days, when it was forbidden by divers general Councils, and when this prohibi­tion was generally received as an Apostolical tradition: VVe have not heard it proved, that the Surplis or Cross, as used with us, were received by the universal Church: it is a private Opinion not recei­ved by the Catholick Church, that [It is requisite that no man should come to the holy Communion, but with a full trust in Gods mercy, and with a quiet conscience,] though it be every mans duty to be per­fect pro statu viatoris, yet it is not requisite that no man come till he be perfect. He that hath but a weak Faith, (though not a full trust) must come to have it strenghtened: and he that hath an unquit conscience, must come to receive that mercy which may quiet it. It is a private Opinion, and not generally received in the Catholick Church, [That one of the people] may make the publick Confession at the Sacrament in the name of all those that are minded to receive the holy Commu­nion. It is a private, and not generally received distinction, that the Body of Christ makes clean our bodies, and his Blood washeth our souls. It is a doubtful Opinion, to speak easily, that when the Lords Supper is delivered with a Prayer not made in the Receivers name, but thus directed to him by the Minister, [The Body of our Lord Je­sus Christ, &c. preseve thy body and soul,] it is so intolerable a thing for the Receiver not to kneel in hearing the prayer, that he must else be thrust from the Communion of the Church, and yet that no [Page 18] Minister shall kneel that indeed doth pray: But he may pray standing, and the Hearers be cast out for standing at the same words. It is not a generally received, but a private Opinion, [That every Parishioner (though impenitent, and conscious of his utter unfitness, and though he [...]e in despair, and think he shall take his own damnation) must be forced to receive thrice a year; when yet even those that have not [A full trust in Gods mercy,] or have not [a quiet conscience,] were before pronounced so uncapable, as that none such should come to the Communion.] Abundance more such Instances may be given, to shew how far from truth the Assertion is, that [The Church hath been careful to put nothing into the Liturgie, but that which is either evidently the Word of God, or which hath been generally received in the Catholick Church,] unless you speak of some unhappy unsuc­cessful Carefulness. But we thankfully accept of your following words, [And if the contrary can be proved, we wish it out of the Liturgie,] which we intreat you to pefso [...]m, and impartially receive our proofs. But then we must also intreat you, 1. That the Primitive Churches Judgement and Practise may be preferred before the present decli­ned, much corrupted State. And 2. If Gods Law rather then the sinful practises of men breaking that Law, may be the Churches Rule for Worship: For you call us to subscribe to Art. 19. that [As the Church of Jerusalem, Alexandria and Antioch hath erred, so also the Church of Rome hath erred, not onely in their living, and manner of Ceremonies, but also in matters of Faith: and saith Rogers, in Art. 20. They are out of the way, which think that either one man, as the Pope, or any certain Calling of men, as the Clergie, hath power to decree and appoint Rites or Ceremonies, though of themselves good, unto the whole Church of God, dispersed over the universal world.] And indeed, if you would have all that corruption brought into our Liturgie, and Discipline, and Doctrine, which the Papists, Greeks, and others that undoubtedly make up the far greater number of the now universal Church do use; you would deserve no more thanks of God or man, then he that would have all Kings, and Nobles, and Gentry levelled with the poor Commons, because the latter are the greater number; or then he that would have the healthful conformed to the sick, when an Epidemical Disease hath made them the Majority; or then he that would teach us to follow a multitude to do evil, and to break more then the least Commands, because the greater number break them. We pray you therefore to take it for no justification of [Page 19] any uncertain or faulty passage in our Liturgis, though the greater number now are guilty of it. 3. And we must beseech you, if the Churches Judgement or Practise must be urged, that you would do us the justice as to imitate the ancient Churches in you sense of the quality, and the mode and measure of using and imposing things, as well as in the materials used and imposed. Consider not onely [whe­ther you finde such things received by the ancient Churches,] but also consider how they were received, esteemed and used; whether as necessary or indifferent; as points of Faith, or doubtful Opinion; whether forced on others, or left to their free choice. If you finde, that the generality of the Antient Churches received the White Gar­ment after Baptism, and the tasting of Milk and Honey, as Ceremonies freely, though generally used; you should not therefore force men to use them. If you finde, that the Doctrine of the Mil [...]ennium, or of Angels corporeity was generally received as an Opinion, it will not warrant you to receive either of them as a certain necessary truth. If you finde, that the general Councils forbad Kneeling in any Adora­tion on the Lords days, but without force against Dissenters; you may not go deny the Sacrament to all that kneel, nor yet forbid them to keel in praying. So if you finde some little parcels of our Liturgie, or some of our Ceremonies used as things indifferent, left to choice, forced upon none, but one Church differing from another in such u­sages or observances, this will not warrant you to use the same things as necessary to order, unity or peace, and to be forced upon all: use them no otherwise then the Churches used them.

[We heartily desire,Answer. that according to this Proposal, great care may be taken to suppress those private Conceptions of Prayers before and after Sermon,Sect. 2. lest private Opinions be made the matter of Prayer in Publick, as hath and will be, if private persons take liberty to make Publick Pray­ers.]

The desire of your hearts is the grief of our hearts;Reply. the Concep­tions of Prayer by a publick person, according to a publick rule, for a publick use, are not to be rejected as private Conceptions: We had hoped you had designed no such innovation as this in the Church: VVhen we have heard any say that it would come to this, and that you designed the suppression of the free Prayers of Ministers in the Pulpit, suited to the variety of the subjects and occasions, we [Page 20] have rebuked them as uncharitable in passing so heavy a censure on you: And what would have been said of us a year ago, if we should have said that this was in your hearts? Nothing will more alienate the hearts of many holy prudent persons from the Common-Prayer, then to perceive that it is framed and used as an Instrument to shut out all other Prayers, as the Ministers private Conceptions. Such an end and designe, will make it, under the notion of a means, another thing then else it would be, and afford men such an Argument against it, as we desire them not to have: but we hope you speak not the publick sense. As the Apostles desired (as aforesaid) that all would speak the same things, without giving them (that ever was proved) a Form of words to speak them in; so might we propose to you, that uncertain opinions be made no part of our Liturgie, without putting all their words into their mouthes, in which their desires must be al­tered. Your hearty desire, and the reason of it, makes not onely a­gainst extemporary Prayer, but all prepared or written Forms or Liturgies that were indited onely by one man, and have not the con­sent antecedently of others. And do you think this was the course of the Primitive times? Basil thus used his private Conceptions at C [...]sarea, and Greg. Thaumaturgus before him at Neocesarea, and all Pastors in Justin Martyrs and Tertullians days. And how injurious is it to the Publick Officers of Christ, the Bishops and Pastors of the Churches, to be called private men? who are publick persons in the Church, if they be not? Every single person is not a private person, else Kings and Judges would be so. And have you not better means to shut out private opinions, then the forbidding Ministers praying in the Pulpit, according to the variety of subjects and occasions? You have first the Examination of persons to be ordained, and may see that they be able to speak sense, and fit to manage their proper works with judgement and discretion, before you ordain them; And some con­fidence may be put in a man in his proper calling and work, to which he is admitted with so great care, as we hope (or desire) you will admit them. If you are necessitated to admit some few that are in­judicious, or unmeet, we beseech you (not onely to restore the many hundred worthy men laid by, to a capacity, but that you will not so dishonour the whole Church, as to suppose all such, and to use all as such, but restrain those that deserve restraint, and not all others for their sakes: And next, you have a Publick Rule (the holy Scripture) for these men to pray by. And if any of them be intolerably guilty [Page 21] of weaknesses or rashness, or other miscarriages, the words being spo­ken in publick, you have witnesses enow, and sure there is power e­nough in Magistrates and Bishops to punish them; and if they prove incorrigible, to cast them out. In all other Professions these means are thought sufficient to regulate the Professors. His Majesty thinks it enough to regulate his Judges, that he may chuse able men, and fit to be trusted in their proper work; and that they are respo [...]sible for all their male-administrations, without prescribing them Forms, be­yond which they may not speak any thing in their Charge. Physiti­ans being first tryed, and responsible for their doings, are constantly trusted with the lives of high and low, without tying them to give no counsel or medicine but by the prescript of a Book, or determinati­on of a Colledge. And it is so undeniable, that your reason makes more against Preaching, and for onely reading Homilies, as that we must like it the worse, if not fear what will become of Preaching also. For, 1. It is known that in Preaching a man hath far greater oppor­tunity and liberty to vent a false or private opinion, then in Prayer. 2. It is known de eventu, that it is much more ordinary. And if you say, [That he speaks not the words of the Church, but his own, nor unto God, but man, and therefore it is less matter:] We answer, It is as considerable, if not much more, from whom he speaks, then to whom he speaks as the M [...]nister of Christ, in his stead and name, 2 Cor. 3. 19, 20. And it is as a higher, so a more reverend thing to speak in Gods Name to the people, then in the peoples name to God; and to speak that which we call Gods Word, or Truth, or Message, then that which we call but our own desire: we make a God a lyar, or corrupt in his words, if we speak a falshood in his Name; we make but our selves lyars, if we speak a falshood to him in our names: the former therefore is the more heynous and dreadful abuse, and more to be a­voided: or if but equally, it shews the tende [...]cy of your reason, (for we will not say of your designe, as hoping you intend not to make us Ruff [...]ans.) We do therefore for the sake of the poor threatned Church, beseech you that you will be pleased to repent of these desires, and not to prosecute them, considering that to avoid a lesser evil (avoidable by safer means) you will bring a far greater evil on the Churches, and such as is like to strip these Nations of the glory in which they have excelled the rest of the world▪ even a learned, able, holy Ministry, and a people sincere, and serious, and understanding in the matters of their salvati­on. For, 1. As it is well known that an ignorant man may read [Page 22] a Prayer and Homily as distinctly and laudably as a learned Divine, and so may do the work of a Minister, if this be it; so it is known that mans nature is so addicted to ease and sensual diversions, as that mul­titudes will make no better preparations, when they find that no more is necessary, when they are as capable of their places and main­tenance if they can but read, and are forced upon no exercise of their parts, which may detect and shame their ignorance, but the same words are to be read by the ablest and ignorantest man: it is certain that this will make multitudes idle in their Academical Studies, and multitudes to spend their time idly all the year, in the course of their Ministry: and when they have no necessity that they are sensible of, of diligent studies, it will let loose their f [...]eshly voluptuous inclinati­ons, and they will spend their time in sports, and drinking, and pra­ting, and idleness; and this will be a Seminary of Lust: or they will follow the world, and drown themselves in Covetousness and Ambi­tion, and their hearts will be like their studies. As it's the way to have a holy able Ministry, to engage them to holy studies, to medi­tate on Gods Law day and night; so it's the way to have an ignorant, prophane and scandalous Ministry, (and consequently Enemies to serious Godliness in others) to impose upon them but such a work, as in ignorance and idleness they may perform as well as the judicious and the diligent. If it be said, [That their parts may be tryed and exercised some other way:] We answer, Where should a Ministers parts be exercised, if not in the Pulpit or the Church, and in Cate­chising, in private Baptism and Communion, and in the visitation of the sick? their work also is such as a School-boy may do as well as they, their ignorance having the same Cloak, as in publick. If it be said, [That a Ministers work is not to shew his parts:] We answer, But his Ministerial work is to shew men their sins, and to preach the wonderful mysteries of the Gospel, to help men to search, and under­stand the Scriptures, and to search, and to know their hearts, and to know God in Christ, and to hope for the glory that is to be revealed; and fervently to pray for the success of his endeavours, and the bles­sings of the Gospel on the people, and chearfully to praise God for his [...]arious benefits; which cannot be done without Abilities. A [...]hysitians work is not to shew his parts ultimately, but it is to do that for the cure of diseases which without parts he cannot do; and in the exercise of his parts, (on which the issue much depends) to save mens lives. The ostentation of his good works, is not the work of [Page 23] a good Christian; and yet he must so let his light shine before men, that they may see his good works, and glorifie God. And undeni­able experience tells us, That God ordinarily proportioneth the suc­cess and blessing to the skill, and holiness, and diligence of the Instru­ments; and blesseth not the labours of ignorant, ungodly Drones, as he doth the labours of able faithful Ministers. And also that the rea­diest way to bring the Gospel into contempt with the world, and c [...]use all Religion to dwindle away into Formality first, and then to Barbarism and Brutishness, is to let in an ignorant, idle, vicious Mini­stry, that will become the peoples scorn: Yea, this is the way to extirpate Christianity out of any Country in the world, which is de­caying apace, when men grow ignorant of the nature and reasons of it, and unexperienced in its power and delightful fruits, and when the Teachers themselves grow unable to defend it. And we must adde, That whatsoever can be expected duely to affect the heart, must keep the intellect, and all the faculties awake in diligent attention and ex­ercise: And in the use of a Form, which we have frequently heard and read, the faculties are not so necessitated and urged to attention, and serious exercise, as they be when from our own understanding we are set about the natural work of representing to others what we dis­cern and feel. Mans minde is naturally sloathful, and will take its ease, and remit its seriousness longer then it is urged by necessity, or drawn out by delight: When we know beforehand, that we have no more to do, but read a Prayer or Homily, we shall ordinarily be in danger of letting our minds go another way, and think of other mat­ters, and be senceless of the work in hand. Though he is but an Hy­pocrite that is carried on by no greater motive then mans observati­on and approbation; yet is it a help not to be despised, when even a necessity of avoiding just shame with men, shall necessarily awake our invention, and all our faculties to the work, and be a concurrent help with spiritual motives. And common experience tells us, That the best are apt to loose a great deal of their affection by the constant use of the same words or forms. Let the same Sermon be preached an hundred times over, and try whether an hundred for one will not be much less moved by it, then they were at first. It is not onely the common corruption of our nature, but somewhat of innocent infir­mity that is the cause of this. And man must cease to be man, or to be mortal, before it will be otherwise. So that the nature of the thing, and the common experience of our own dispositions, and of [Page 24] the effect on others, assureth us, that understanding serious Godli­ness, is like to be extinguished, if onely Forms be allowed in the Church, on pretence of extinguishing errors and divisions: And though we have concurred to offer you our more corrected Ne­pent [...]es, yet must we before God and me [...], protest against the dose of Opium which you here prescribe or wish for, as that which plain­ly tendeth to cure the di [...]ease by the extinguishing of life, and to unite us all in a dead Religion. And when the Prayers that avail must be effectual and ferve [...]t, Jam 5. 16. and God will be worshipped in spi­rit and truth, and more regardeth the f [...]ame of the heart, then the comeliness of expression; we have no reason to be taken with any thing that pretends to help the tongue, while we are sure it ordinari­ly hurts the heart: And it is not the affirmations of any men in the world, perswading us of the harmlessness of such a course, that can so far un-man us, as to make us dis-believe both our own experience, and common observation of the effects on others. Yet we con­fess that some Forms have their laudable use, to cure that errour and vice that lyeth on the other extream. And might we but sometimes have the liberty to interpose such words as are needful to call home and quicken attention and affection, we should think that a convenient conjunction of both might be a well-tempered means to the com­mon constitutions of most. But still we see the world will run into extreams, whatever be said or done to hinder it. It is but lately that we were put to it, against one extream, to defend the lawfulness of a Form of Liturgie; now the other extream it troubleth us, that we are forced against you, even such as you, to defend the use of such Pray­ers of the Pastors of the Churches, as are necessarily varied according to subjects and occasions, while you would have no Prayer at all in the Church, but such prescribed Forms. And why may we not adde, That whoever maketh the Forms imposed on us, if he use them, is guilty as well as we of praying accordi [...]g to his private Conceptions? And that we never said it proved from Scripture, that Christ appoin­ted any to such an Office, as to make Prayers for other Pastors and Churches to offer up to God: and that this being none of the work of the Apostolical, or common Ministerial Office in the Primitive Church, is no work of any Office of Divine Institution.

[To that part of the Proposal,Answer. Sect 3. That the Prayers may cons [...]st of nothing doubtful, or questioned by pious, learned and Orthodox persons; they not de­termining [Page 25] who be those Orthodox persons, we must either take all them for Orthodox persons, who shall confidently affirm themselves to be such; and then we say, First, the Demand is unreasonable; for some such as call themselves Orthodox, have qu [...]stioned the prime Article of our Creed, even the Divinity of the S [...]n of God; and yet there is no reason we should part with our Creed for that. Besides the Proposal requires impossibility; for there never was, nor is, [...]or can be such Prayers made, as have not been, nor will be questioned by s [...]me wh [...] call themselves pious, learned and Or­thodox: if by Orthodox be meant those who adhere to Scripture, and the Catholick Consent of Antiquity, we do not yet know that any part of our Liturgie hath been questioned by such.]

And may we not thus mention Orthodox persons to men that pro­fess they agree with us in Doctrinals▪ unless we digress to tell you who they be?Reply. What if we were pleading for civil co [...]cord among all that a [...]e loyal to the King, must we needs digress to tell you who are loy­al? We are agreed in one Rule of Faith, in one holy Scripture, and one Creed, and differ not (you say) about the Doctrinal part of the 39 Art. And will not all this seem to tell you who are Orthodox? If you are resolved to make all that a matter of Contention which we desire to make a means of Peace, there is no remedy while you have the Ball before you, and have the Wind and Sun, and the power of contending without controul. But we perceive, [That the Catho­lick consent of Antiquity,] must go into your definition of the Or­thodox; but how hard it is to get a reconciling determination, what Ages shall go with you, and us, for the true Antiquity, and what is necessary to that consent that must be called Catholick, is unknown to none but the unexperienced. And indeed we think a man that searcheth the holy Scripture, and sincerely and unreservedly gives up his Soul to understand, love and obey it, may be Orthodox, without the knowledge of Church-History: we know no univer­sal Law-Giver, nor Law to the Church, but one, and that Law is the sufficient Rule of Faith, and consequently the test of the truely Orthodox, though we refuse not Church-History, or other means that may help us to understand it. And to acquaint you with what you do not know, we our selves (after many Pastors of the Reform­ed Churches) do question your Liturgie, as far as is expressed in our Papers: And we profess, [to adhere to Scripture, and the Ca­tholick consent of Antiquity,] (as described by Vincentius Liniensis) [Page 26] If you will say, that our pretence and claim is unjust, we call for your Authority to judge our hearts, or dispose us from the number of the Orthodox, or else for your proofs to make good your accusation. But however you judge, we rejoyce in the expectation of the righ­teous Judgment that shall finally decide the Controversie; to which, from this Aspersion, we appeal.

[To th [...]se Generals,Answer. Sect. 4. loading publick Form with Ch. pomp garm. Ima­gery, and many Superfluities that creep into the Church under the name of Order and Dec [...]ncy, i [...]cumbring Churches with Superfluities, over-rigid reviving of obsolete Customes, &c. We say, that if these Generals be in­tended as appliable to our Liturgie in particular, they are gross and foul Slanders, contrary to their profession, page ult. and so either that or this contrary to their Conscience; if not, they signifie nothing to the present bu­siness, and so might with more prudence and [...]andor have been omitted.]

You needed not go a fishing for our Charge;Reply. what we had to say a­gainst the Liturgie, which we now desired you to observe, was here plainly laid before you: Answer to this, and suppose us not to say what we do not, to make your selves matter of reproaching us with gross and foul slanders. Onely we pray you answer Mr. Hales, as Mr. Hales, (whom we took to be a person of much esteem with you) e­specially that passage of his which you take no notice of, as not being so easie to be answered, for the weight and strength which it carries with it, viz. that the limiting of the Church-Communion to things of doubtful disputation, hath been in all Ages the ground of Schism and Separation; and that he that separates from suspected Opinions, is not the Separatist. And may we not cite such words of one that we thought you honoured, and would hear, without contradicting our Profession, of not intending depravation or reproach against the Book without going against our Consciences? If we cite the words of an Author for a particular use, (as to perswade you of the evil of laying the hurches unity upon unnecessary things) must we be responsible therefore for all that you can say against his words in other respects? We suppose you would be loath your words should have such inter­pretation, and that you should be under such a Law for all your Cita­tions: Do as you would be done by.

[It was the wisdom of our Reformers to draw up such a Liturgie asAnswer. N. 2. [Page 27] neither Romanist nor Protestant could justly except against; and there­fore as the first never charged it with any positive Errours, but onely the want of something they conceived necessary: so it was never found fault with by th [...]se to whom the name of Protestants most properly belongs, those that profess the Augustine Confession; and for those who unlawfully and sinfully brought it into dislike with some people, to urge the present State of Affaires, as an Argument why the Book should be altered, to give them satisfaction, and so that they should take advantage by their own unwarrantable Acts, is not reasonable.]

If it be blameless,Reply. no man can justly except against it: but that de facto the Romanists never charged it with any positive Errours, is an Assertion that maketh them reformed, and reconcileable to us, be­yond all belief: Is not the very using it in our own Tongue a positive Errour in their account? Is it no positive Errour in the Papists ac­count, that we profess [To receive these Creatures of Bread and Wine?] Do they think we have no positive Errour in our Catechism about the Sacrament, that affirmeth it to be Bread and Wine a ter the Consecration, and makes but two Sacraments necessary? &c. 2. And unless we were nearlier agreed then we are, it seemeth to us no Com­mendation of a Liturgie, that the Papists charge it with no positive Errour. 3. That no Divines or private men at home, or of forraign Churches, [that ever found fault with the Liturgie, are such to whom the name of Protestant properly belongeth,] is an Assertion that proveth not what authority of Judging your Brethren you have, but what you assume; and commendeth your Charity no more, then it commendeth the Papists, that they deny us to be Catholicks. Calvin and Bucer subscribed the Augustine Consession, and so have others that have found fault with our Liturgie. 4. If any of us have blamed it to the people, it is but with such a sort of blame as we have here exprest against it to your selves; and whether it be [unlawful and sin­ful] the impartial comparing of your words with ours, will help the willing Reader to discern. But if we prove indeed that it is [defe­ctive and faulty that you bring for an Offering to God,] when you or your Neighbours have a better, which you will not bring, nor suffer them that would, (Mal. 1. 13.) and that you call evil good in justifying its blemishes, which in humble modesty we besought you to amend, or excuse us from offering, then God will better judge of the unlawful act, then you have done. But you have not proved [Page 28] that all or most of us have caused the people at all to dislike it; if any of us have, yet weigh our Argument, though from the present state of Affairs: or if you will not hear us, we beseech you hear the ma­ny Ministers in England, that never medled against the Liturgy, and the many moderate Episcopal Divines, that have used it, and can do still, and yet would earnestly intreat you to alter it, partly because of what in it needs alteration, and partly in respect to the Commo­dity of others; Or at least we beseech you recant, and obliterate such passages as would hinder all your selves from any Act of Refor­mation hereabout, that if any man among you would find fault with some of the grosser things, which we laid open to you, (tenderly and sparingly) and would [...]eform them, he may not presently forfeit the reputation of being a Protestant. And astly, we beseech you deny not again the name of Protestants to the Pri [...]ate of Ireland, the Arch­bishop of York, and the many others that had divers meetings for the Reformation of the Liturgie, and who drew up that Catalogue of faults, or points that needed mending, which is yet to beseen in print; they took not advantage of their own unwarrantable Acts for the at­tempting of that alteration.

[The third and fourth Proposals may go together,Answer. N. 3, 4. the demand in both being against Respensals, and alternate Readings, in Hymnes, and Psams, and L [...]t [...]y, &c. And that upon such reason as doth in truth enforce the necessity of continuing them as they are, namely for edification. They would take these away, because they do not edifie, and upon that very reason they sh [...]uld continue, because they do edifie: if not by informing of our reasons and understandin [...]s, (the Prayers and Hymns were never made for a Catechism) yet by quic [...]ning, continuing and uniting our devo­tion, which is apt to f [...]eeze▪ or sleep, [...]r [...]at in a l [...]ng continued Prayer, or F [...]rm; it is necessary therefore for the edifying of us therein, to be often cal­led upon and awa [...]ned by frecuent Amens, to be excited and stirred up by mutu [...]l exultations, pr [...]vocations, petitions, holy c [...]ntentions and strivin [...]s, which shall m [...]st sh [...]w his [...]wn,Socrat. lib 6. ca [...] 8. Th [...]dor lib. cap. [...] 7. 1, 2. Ezra [...]. 11 and stir up others zeal to the Glory of God. For this purpose alternate Reading, Repetitions and Responsals, are far better than a long tedious Pr [...]yer: Nor is this [...]r opini [...] onely, but the Judgement of former ages, as appears by the practise of antient Christian Churches, and of the Jews also. But it seems they say to be against the Scripture, wherein the Minister is appointed for the people in publick Prayers, the peoples part being to attend with s [...]lence, and to declare their [Page 29] assent in the close, by saying Amen: if they mean that the people in publick Services must onely say this word Amen, as they can no where prove it in the Scriptures, so it doth certainly seem to them, that it cannot be pro­ved; for they directly practise the contrary in one of their principal parts of Worship, singing of Psalms, where the people bear as great a part as the Minister. If this may be done in Hopkins, why not in Davids Psalms? If in Metre, why not in Prose? if in a Psalm, why not in a Letany?]

What is most for edification,Reply. is best known by experience, and by the reason of the thing: for the former, you are not the Masters of all mens experience, but of your own, and others that have acquain­ted you with the same, as theirs: We also may warrantably profess in the name of our selves, and many thousands of sober pious per­sons, that we experience that these things are against our edification; and we beseech you do not by us, what you would not do by the the poor labouring servants of your family, to measure them all their dyet for quality or quantity, according to your own appetites, which they think are diseased, and would be better, if you work'd us as hard as they: and we gave you some of the Reasons of our Judgement: 1. Though we have not said that the people may not in Psalms to God concur in voice, (we speak of Prayer which you should have observed) and though we onely concluded it agreeable to the Scri­pture-practise, for the people in prayer to say but their Amen; yet knowing not from whom to understand the will of God, and what is pleasing to him, better then from himself, we considered what the Scripture saith of the ordinary way of publick Worship; and finding ordinarily that the people spoke no more in prayer (as distinct from Psalms and Praise) then their Amen, or meer consent, we desired to imitate the surest pattern. 2. As we finde that the Minister is the mouth of the people to God in publick, (which Scripture, and the necessity of order do require;) so we were loath to countenance the peoples invading of that sacred Office, so far as they seem to us to do: 1. By reading half the Psalms and Hymnes: 2. By saying half the Prayers, as the Minister doth the other half: 2. By being one of them the mouth of all the rest in the Confession at the Lords Sup­per. 4. By being the onely Petitioners, in the far greatest part of all the Letanie, by their [Good Lord deliver us,] and [We beseech thee to hear us, good Lord;] while the Minister onely reciteth the matter of [Page 30] the matter of the prayer, and maketh none of the Request at all; we fear lest by parity of reason the people will claim the work of preach­ing, and other parts of the Ministerial Office: 3. And we menti­oned that which all our ears are witnesses of, that while half the Psalms and Hymns, &c. are said by such of the people as can say them, the murmur of their voices in most Congregations is so unintelli­gible and confused, as must hinder the edification of all the rest; for who is edified by that which he cannot understand? We know not what you mean by citing 2 Chron. 7. 1, 4. Ezra 3. 11. where there is not a word of publick prayer, but in one place of an Acclamation, up­on an extraordinary sight of the glory of the Lord, which made them praise the Lord, and say, [He is good, for his mercy is for ever;] when the prayer that went before was such as you call [A long tedious prayer,] uttered by Solomon alone, without such breaks and discants. And in the other places is no mention of prayer at all, but of singing praise; and that not by the people, but by the Priests and Levites, saying the same words, [For he is good, for his mercy endures for ever towards Israel:] The people are said to do no more then shout with a great shout, because the foundation of the House was laid; and if shouting be it that you would prove, it's not the thing in Question. Let the ordinary mode of praying in Scripture be observed, in the prayers of David, Solomon, Ezra, Daniel, or any other; and if they were by breaks, and frequent beginnings and endings, and alternate Interlocutions of the people, as yours are, then we will conform to your mode, which now offends us; but if they were not, we beseech you reduce yours to the examples in Scripture: we desire no other rule to decide the Controversie by. As to your Citation, 1 Socrat. there tells us of the alternate singing of the Arrians in the reproach of the Orthodox, and that Chrysostome (not a Synod) compiled Hymns to be sung in opposition to them in the streets, which came in the end to a Tumult and Bloudshed. And hereupon he tells us of the original of alternate singing, viz. a pretended Vi [...]ion of Ignatius, that heard Angels sing in that order. And what is all this to alternate Reading, and praying, or to a Divine Institution, when here is no mention of reading or praying, but of singing Hymns; and that not upon pre­tence of Apostolical Tradition, but a Vision of uncertain credit? The­odore also speaketh onely of singing Psalms alternately, and not a word of reading or praying so; and he fetcheth that way of singing also as Socrat. doth, but from the Church at Antioch, and not from any pre­tended [Page 31] Doctrine or Practise of the Apostles: and neither of them speaks a word of the necessity of it, or of forcing any to it: so that all these your Citations, speaking not a word so much as of the very Sub­ject in question, are marvellously impertinent. The words [Their Worship,] seem to intimate that singing of Psalms is part [of our Worship,] and not of yours: we hope you disown it not; for our parts we are ashamed of it. Your distinction between Hopkins and Davids Psalms, as if the metre allowed by Authority to be sung in Churches, made them to be no more Davids Psalms, seemeth to us a very hard saying. If it be because it is a Translation, then the prose should be none of Davids Psalms neither, nor any Translation be the S [...]ripture. If it be because it is in metre, then the exactest Transla­tion in metre should be none of the Scripture. If because it's done imperfectly, then the old Translation of the Bible, used by Common-Prayer-Book, should not be Scripture. As to your reason for the supposed priority, 1. Scripture-examples telling us, that the people had more part in the Psalms, then in the Prayers or Reading, satis­fie us, that God and his Church then saw a disparity of Reason. 2. Common Observation tells us, That there is more order, and less hinderance of Edification in the peoples singing, then in their read­ing and praying together vocally.

[It is desired that nothing should be in the Liturgie,Answer. N. Sect. 1. which so much as seems to countenance the observation of Lent as a Religious Fast; and this as an expedient to peace: which is in effect to desire, that this our Church may be contentious for peace sake, and to divide from the Church-Catholick, that we may live at unity among our selves: For St. Paul reckons them amongst the lovers of contention, who shall oppose themselves against the custome of the Churches of God. That the religious observation of Lent was a custome of the Churches of God, appears by the testimonies following, Chrys. Ser. 11. in Heb. 10. Cyrill. Catec. myst. 5. St. Aug. Ep. 119, ut 40 dies ante Pascha observetur, Ecclesiae consuetudo ro­boravit: and St. Hierom ad Marcell, says, it was secundum traditi­onem Apostolorum: This Demand then tends not to peace, but Dissen­tion. The fasting forty days may be in imitation of our Saviour, for all that is here said to the contrary; for though we cannot arrive to his perfe­ction, abstaining wholly from meat so long; yet we may fast forty days to­gether, either Cornelius his fast, till three of the Clock after noon, or Saint Peters fast, till noon; or at least Daniels fast, abstaining from meats and [Page 32] drinks of delight; and thus far imitate our Lord.]

If we had said that the Church is contentious if it adore God in kneeling on the Lords Days,Reply. or use not the White Garment, Milk and Honey after Baptism, which had more pretence of Apostolical tradition, and were generally used more anciently then Lent, would you not have thought we wronged the Church? If the purer times of the Church have one custome, and latter times a contrary, which must we follow? or must we necessarily be contentious for not fol­lowing both? or rather, may we not by the example of the Church that changeth them, be allowed to take such things to be matters of Liberty, and not Necessity? If we must needs con­form to the custom of other Churches in such things, or be con­tentious, it is either because God hath so commanded, or because he hath given those Churches authority to command it: If the for­mer, then what Churches or what Ages must we conform to? If all must concur to be our pattern, it will be hard for us to be acquain­ted with them so far as to know of such concurrences: And in our Case we know that many do it not. If it must be the most, we would know where God commandeth us to imitate the greater number, though the worse; or hath secured us that they shall not be the worst? or why we are not tyed rather to imitate the purer Ages then the more corrupt? If it be said, that the Church hath authority to com­mand us; we desire to know what Church that is, and where to be sound and heard, that may command England, and all the Churches of his Majesties Dominions. If it be said to be a General Council, 1. No General Council can pretend to more Authority then that of Nice, whose 20th Canon, back'd with tradition and common pra­ctise, now binds not us, and was laid by without any Repeal by fol­lowing Councils. 2. We know of no such things as General Coun­cils, at least that have bound us to the religious observation of Lent. The Bishops of one Empire could not make a General Council. 3. Nor do we know of any such power that they have over the uni­versal Church, there being no visible Head of it, or Governours to make universal Laws, but Christ, (as Rogers on the 20th Article fore-cited shews) our 21th Article saith, That [General Councils may not be gathered together without the Commandment and Will of Princes:] And doubtless all the Heathens and Mahometans, and [Page 33] all the contending Christian Princes, will never agree together (nor never did) to let all their Christian Subjects concur to hold a Ge­neral Council. It saith also, [And when they be gathered toge­ther, (for as much as they be an Assembly of men, whereof all be not governed with the Spirit and Word of God) they may erre, and sometimes have erred, even in things pertaining unto God: there­fore things ordained by them, as necessary to salvation, have neither strength nor authority, unless it may be declared that they be taken out of the Holy Scriptures.] And if they may erre in things per­taining unto God, and ordained by them as necessary to salvation, much more in lesser things. And are we contentious if we erre not with them? Our 39 Article determineth this Controversie, say­ing, [It is not necessary that Traditions and Ceremonies be in all places one, or utterly like; for at all times they have been divers, and changed according to the diversitie of Countries, times, and mens manners, so that nothing be ordained against Gods Word.] And after, [Every particular, or National Church, hath Au­thority to ordain, change, or abolish Ceremonies, or Rites of the Church, ordained onely by Mans Authority, so that all things be done to edifying:] They that believe not this, should not subscribe it, nor require it of others. As for the Testimonies cited by you, they are to little purpose: We deny not not that the custome of observing Lent, either fewer days or more, was as An­cient as those Authors. But first, That Lent was not known or kept in the second or third Ages, you may see as followeth, Tertul. de jejun. l. 2. cap. 14. pleading for the Montanists, [Si omnem in to­tum devotionem temporum, & dierum, & mensium, & annorum erasit Apostolus, cur Pascha celebramus anno circulo in mense primo? cur quadraginta inde diebus in omni exulcatione deturrimus? Cur stationibus quartam & sextam, sabbati dicamus? & jejuniis Pa­rasceven? quanquam vos etiam sabbatum si quando continutatis; nunquam nisi in Pascha jejunandum, &c. And cap. 15. excusing that rigour of their Fasts, [quantula est apud nos interdictio ciborum, duus in anno. Hebdomadas xerophagiarum nec totas, exceptis scilicet sabbatis, & dominicius offerimus Deo: The old general Fast at that time was onely the voluntary unconstrained fasting on Good Friday, and after that on one or two days more, and then on six. Irenaeus in a Fragment of an Epistle in Euseb. Hist. Lib. 5. Cap. 26. Gr. [Page 36] Lat. 23. saith, (the Controversie is not onely of the day of Easter, but of the kind of Fast it self: for some think they should fast one day, some two, others more: some measure their day by forty hours of day and night; and this variety of those that observe these Fasts, be­gan not now in our Age, but long before us with our Ancestors; who, as is most like, propagated to posterity the custome which they retain, as brought in by a certain simplicity, and private will; and yet all these lived peaceably among themselves, and we keep peace among our selves; and the difference of Fasting is so far from violating the consonancy of Faith, as that it even commendeth it.] Thus Irenaeus, (read the rest of the Chapter) thus is the true reading confessed by Bellarmine, Rigaltius, &c. and Dionys. Alexand. Ep. Can. ad Basil. pag. 881. Balsam saith, [Nor do all equally and alike sustain those six days of fasting; but some pass them all fasting, some two, some three, some four, some more.] And the Catholicks in Tert de jejun. cap. 2. says, Itaque de caetero differentur jejunandum, ex arbitrio, non ex imperio novae disciplinae, pro temporibus & causis uniuscujusque sic & A­postolos observasse, nul [...]um aliud imponentes jugum certorum, & in com­mune omnibus obeundorum jejuniorum: And Socrat. admireth at many Countries, that all differed about the number of days, and yet all called i [...] Quadrages [...]ma, lib. 5 c. 22. Lat. Gr. 21. So Sozomen lib. 7. c. 19. Gr. & Niceph. lib. 12. cap. 34. which may help you to expound Hierom, and the rest cited by you, as Rigaltius doth ad Tertul. de jujun. 118. as shewing that they did it with respect to Christs forty days fast, but not as intending any such thing themselves as any fast of forty days. It is against the Montanists, that the Quadrag. was but once a year, that Hierom useth the title of Apostolical tradition. And how to expound him, see Epist. ad Lucin, [unaqueque provincia abundet in suo sensu, & praecepta Majorum leges Apostolicus arbitretur;] But saith August. ad Casulan Ep. 86. [In Evangelicis & Apostolicis literis, totoque Instru­mento quod appellatur Testamentum Novum, animo id revolvens video pre­ceptum esse jejunium: quibus, autem die [...]us non oportet jejunare, & quibus oport [...]at, precepto Domini vel Apostolorum non invenio definitum.] And that Christians abstinence in Lent was voluntary [quanto magis quisque vel minus voluerit, vel potuerit,] August. affirmeth, cont. Fau­stum Manich. lib. 30. cap. 5. And Socrat. ubi supr. saith, [ac quoni­am nemo de care praeceptum literarum monumentis proditum potest osten­dere, perspicuum est Apostolos liberam potestatem in eadem cujusque men­ [...]i, ac arbitrio permisisse: ut quisque nec metu, nec necessitate inductus [Page 37] quod bonum sit ageret.] And Prosper de vit. Contempl. li. 2. C. 24. verun­tamen sic jejunare, vel abstinere debemus, ut nos non jejunandi, vel desti­nendi necessitate subdamus, ne jam devoti, sed inviti, rem voluntariam faciamus.] And Cassianus, lib. 2. col. 21. cap. 30. saith, [In primi­tiva Ecclesia equale fuisse jejunium per totum annum: Ac frigescente devotione, cum negligerentur jei [...]nia inductum Quadrag. à Sacerdotibus. But when you come to describe your Fast, you make amends for the length, by making it indeed no Fast; [To abstain from meats and drinks of delight:] where neither the thing nor the delight is profi­table to further us in our duty to God, is that which we take to be the duty of every Christian all the year, as being a part of our morti­cation, and self-denial, who are commanded to crucifie the flesh, and to make no provision to satisfie the lusts of it, and to subdue our bo­dies: but when those meats and drinks do more help then hinder us in the service of God, we take it to be our duty to use them, unless when some other accident forbids it, that would make it otherwise more hurtful. And for fasting till Noon, we suppose it is the ordinary way of dyet to multitudes of Sedentary persons, both Students, and Trades-men, that find one meal a day sufficient for nature: If you call this fasting, your poor Brethren fast all their life time, and never knew that it was fasting; But to command hard La­bourers to do so, is but to make it a fault to have health, or to do their necessary work. We beseech you bring not the Clergie under the suspition of Gluttony, by calling our ordinary wholsome tempe­rance by the name of fasting. Sure Princes may feed as fully and de­lightfully as we; yet Solomon saith, Wo to thee, O Land, when thy King is a Child, and thy Princes eat in the morning. Blessed art thou, O Land, when thy King is the Son of Nobles, and thy Princes eat in due season, for strength, and not for drunkenness;] For meer sensual delight it is never lawful; And when it is for strength, it is not to be forbid­den, unless when by accident it will i [...]fer a greater good to abstain, Eccl. 20. 16, 17. so Prov. 31. 4, 6. It is not for Kings to drink wine, nor Princes strong drink: Give strong drink to him that is ready to perish, and wine to those that be of heavy hearts.

[Nor does the Act of Parliament,Answer. Sect. 2. 5 of Eliz. forbid it: We dare not think a Parliament did intend to forbid that which Christ his Church [Page 63] hath commanded. Nor does the Act determine any thing about Lent Fast, but onely provide for the maintenance of the Navy, and of Fishing in order thereunto, as is plain by the Act. Besides, we conceive that we must not so interpret one Act, as to contradict another, being still in force and unrepealed. Now the Act of 1 Eliz. confirms the whole Liturgie, and in that the religious keeping of Lent, with a severe penalty upon all those, who shall by open words speak any thing in derogation of any part thereof; and therefore that other Act of 5 Elizab. must not be interpre­ted to forbid the religious keeping of Lent.]

If when the express words of a Statute are cited,Reply. you can so easily put it off, by saying (it does not forbid it) and you dare not think that a Parliament did intend to forbid that which Christ his Church hath commanded,) and (you must not interpret it as contradicting that Act which confirms the Liturgie,) we must think that indeed we are no less regardful of the Laws of the Governours than you. But first, we understand not what authority this is that you set against the King and Parliament, as supposing they will not forbid what it com­mands. You call it Christs Church, we suppose you mean not Christ himself, by his Apostles infallibly directed and inspired. If it be the National Church of England, they are the Kings Subjects; and why may he not forbid a Ceremony which they command? or why should they command it if he forbid it? If it be any Forreign Church, there's none hath power over us. If it be any pretended head of the Church universal, whether Pope or general Council, having power to make Laws that bind the whole Church, it is a thing so copiously disproved by Protestants against both the Italian and French Papists, that we think it needless to confute it, nor indeed dare imagine that you intend it. We know not therefore what you mean; But whatever you mean, you seem to contradict the forecited Article of the Church of England, that makes all humane Laws about Rites and Ceremo­nies of the Church to be unchangeable, by each particular National Church; And that it is not necessary that Ceremonies or Traditions be in all places one, or utterly like.) We most earnestly beseech you be cautious how you obtrude upon us a Forreign Power, under the name of Christs Church, that may command Ceremonies which King and Parliament may not forbid; whether it be one man or a thousand, we fear it is against our Oathes of Allegiance and Supre­macie, for us to own any such Power. And (not presuming upon any immodest challenge) we are ready in the defence of those Oathes, and the Protestant Religion to prove against any in an e­qual conference, that there is no such power; and for the Statutes let the words themselves decide the Controversie, which are these:

[Page 49] [Be it enacted, That whosoever shall by Preaching, Teaching, Writing, or open Speech notifie that any eating of Fish, or for­bearing of Flesh, mentioued in this Statute, is of a [...]y necessity for the saving of the Soul of man, or that it is the Service of God, otherwise than as other politick Laws are and be, that then such persons shall be punished as the spreaders of false News are, and ought to be] And whereas you say the Act determines not any thing about Lent Fast, it speaks against [eating Flesh on any dayes now usually observed as Fish-dayes] and Lent is such. And the sense of the Act for the Lyturgy may better be tryed by this, which is plain, than this reduced to that which is more obscure.

[The Observation of Saints dayes is not as of Divine,N. 6. Ans. but of Ecclesia­stical Institution, and therefore it is not necessary that they should have any other ground in Scripture, than all other Institutions of the same na­ture; so that they be agreeable to the Scripture in the general end, for the promoting [...]i [...]ty; and the observation of them was ancient, as ap­pears by the Rituals and Lyturgies, and by the joint consent of Antiquity, and by the antient Translations of the Bible, as the Syriack and Ethio­pick, where the Lessons appointed for Holy dayes are noted and set down, the former of which was made neer the Apostles times: Besides, our Saviour himself kept a Feast of the Churches Institution, viz. the Feast of the Dedication, St. John 10. 22. The chief end of these dayes being not Feasting, but exercise of Holy Duties, they are fitter called Holy-dayes than Feastivals; and though they be all of like nature, it doth not follow that they are equal; the People may be dispensed with for their work, after the Service, as Authority pleases. The other names are left in the Calender, not that they should be so kept as Holy-dayes, but they are useful for the preservation of their memories, and for other reasons, as for Leases, Law-dayes, &c.]

Repl. The antiquity of the Translations mentioned,Rep. is far from being of determinate certainty; we rather wish than hope, that the Syriack could be proved to be made neer the Apostles times. But however the things being confessed of humane Institution, and no forreign Power having any authority to command his Majesties Subjects, and so the imposition being only by our own Governours, we humbly crave that they may be left indifferent, and the Unity or Peace of the Church, or Liberty of the Ministers not laid upon them.

Sect. 1.

[This makes all the Lyturgy void,N. 7. Ans. if every Minister may put in, and leave out at his discretion.]

Repl. You mistake us;Rep. we speak not of putting in, and leaving out of the Liturgy; but of having leave to intermix some Exhortations or Prayers besides, to take off the deadness which will follow, if there be nothing but the stinted Forms; we would avoid both the extream that would have no Forms, and the contrary extream that would have nothing but Forms; but if we can have nothing but ex­treams, there's no remedy; it's not our fault: And this modera­tion and mixture which we move for, is so far from making all the Lyturgy void, that it would do very much to make it attain its end, and would heal much of the distemper which it occasioneth, and consequently would do much to preserve the reputation of it. As for instance, if besides the Forms in the Lyturgy, the Minister might, at Baptism, the Lords Supper, Marriage, &c. interpose some suitable Exhortation or Prayer, upon special occasion, when he finds it needful: should you deny this at the visitation of the sick, it would seem strange; and why may it not be granted at other times? It is a matter of far greater trouble to us, that you would deny us and all Ministers the Liberty of using any other Prayers be­sides the Lyturgy, than that you impose these.

Sect. 2.

[The Gift,Ans. or rather Spirit of Prayer, consists in the inward Graces of the Spirit, not in extempore expressions, which any man of natural parts, having a voluble tongue, and audacity, may attain to, without any special Gift.]

Repl. All inward Graces of the Spirit,Rep. are not properly called the Spirit of Pray [...]r; nor is the Spirit of Prayer, that Gift of Prayer which we speak of; nor did we call it by the name of a special Gift; nor did we deny that ordinary men of natural parts, and voluble tongues may attain it: But yet we humbly conceive, that as there is a Gift of Preaching, so also of Prayer, which God bestoweth in the use of means, diversified much according to mens natural parts, and their diligence, as other acquired abilities are; but also much depending on that Grace that is indeed special, which maketh men love and rellish the holy Subjects of such Spiritual studies, and the holy exercise of those Graces that are the soul of Prayer, and con­sequently making men follow on such exercises with delight and di­ligence, [Page 51] and therefore with success; and also God is free in giving or denying his Blessing to mans endeavours: If you think there be no Gift of Preaching, you will too dishonourably level the Mini­stry. If reading be all the Gift of Prayer or Preaching, there needs no great understanding or learning to it; nor should Coblers and Tinkers be so unfit men for the Ministry as they are thought, nor would the reason be very apparent why a Woman mightnot speak by Preaching or Praying in the Church.

Sect. 3.

[But if there be any such Gift as is pretended, Ans. Cor. 14. it is to be subject to the Prophets, and to the Order of the Church.]

Repl. The Text speaks,Rep. (as Dr. Hammond well shews) of a sub­jection to that Prophet himself who was the Speaker: Inspiration ex­cluded not the prudent exercise of Reason; but it is a strange or­dering, that totally excludeth the thing ordered. The Gift of Preach­ing (as distinct from Reading) is to be orderly, and with due subje­ction exercised; but not to be on that pretence extinguished and cast out of the Church: And indeed if you should command it, you are not to be obeyed, whatever we suffer. And why then should the Gift of Prayer (distinct from Reading) be cast out?

Sect. 4.

[The mischiefs that come by idle,Ans. impertinent, ridiculous, sometimes seditious, impious, and blasphemous expressions, under pretence of the Gift, to the dishonour of God, and scorn of Religion, being far greater than the pretended good of exercising the Gift; it is fit that they who de­sire such liberty in publick devotions, should first give the Church securi­ty, that no private opinions should be put into their Prayers, as is desired in the first proposal, and that nothing contrary to the Faith, should be ut­tered before God, or offered up to him in the Church.]

Repl. The mischiefs which you pretend,Rep. are inconveniences atten­ding humane imperfeotion, which you would cure with a mischief. Your Argument from the Abuse, against the Use, is a palpable falla­cy, which cast out Physitians in some Countries, and rooted up Vines in others, and condemneth the reading of the Scriptures in a known tongue among the Papists. If the Apostles (that com­plained then so much of divisions, and Preaching false doctrine, and in envy, and strife) had thought the way of cure had been in sending Ministers about the world with a Prayer-book or Sermon book, and to have tyed them only to read, either one or both of these, no doubt but they would have been so regardful of the Church, as [Page 52] to have composed such a Prayer-book or Sermon book themselves, and not left us to the uncertainties of an Authority not infallible, nor to the divisions that follow the impositions of a questionable Power, or that which unquestionably is not universal, and there­fore can procure no universal Concord. If one man among you draw up a Form of Prayer, it is his single conception; and why a man as learned and able, may not be trusted to conceive a Prayer for the use of a single Congregation, without the dangers mentioned by you, as one man to conceive a Prayer for all the Churches in a Diocess, or a Nation, we know not. These words [that the mis­chief is greater than the pretended good] seem to express an unjust ac­cusation of ordinary conceived Prayer, and a great undervaluing of the benefits: If you would intimate that the Crimes expressed by you are ordinarily found in Ministers Prayers, we that hear such much more frequently than you, must profess we have not found it so (allowing men their different measures of exactness, as you have even in writing.) Nay, to the praise of God we must say, that mul­titudes of private men can ordinarily pray, without any such im­perfection as should nauseate a sober person; and with such seri­ousness and aptness of expression, as is greatly to the benefit and comfort of our selves when we joyn with them. And if such general accusations may serve in a matter of publick and common fact, there is no way for the justification of the Innocent: And that it is no such common Guilt, will seem more propable to them that consi­der, that such conceived Prayers, both prepared, and extemporate, have been ordinarily used in the Pulpits in England and Scotland, before our dayes till now, and there hath been power enough (in the Bi­shops and others before the Wars) to punish those that speak ridi­culously, seditiously, impiously, or blasphemously: And yet so few are the instances (even where jealousie was most busie) of Mini­sters punished, or once accused of any such fault in Prayer, as that we find it not easie to remember any considerable number of them; there being great numbers punished for not reading the Book for playing on the Lord's dayes, or for Preaching too oft, and such like, for one that was ever questioned for such kind of praying. And the former shewed that it was not for want of will to be severe, that they spared them as to the later. And if it be but few that are guilty of any intolerable faults of that nature in their Prayers, we hope you will not go on to believe that the mischiefs that come by the failings of those few, are far greater than the benefit of con­ceived [Page 53] Prayer by all others: We presume not to make our expe­riences the measure of yours, or other mens; you may tell us what doth most good or hurt to your selves, and those that have so com­municated their experiences to you: But we also may speak our own, and others that have discovered them to us; and we must se­riously profess, that we have found far more benefit to our selves, and to our Congregations (as far as our Conference and Converse with them, and our observation of the effects alloweth us to discern) by conceived Prayers, than by the Book of Common Prayer: we find that the benefit of conceived Prayers is to keep the mind in serious im­ployment, and to awaken the affections, and make us fervent and importunate. And the inconvenience, is, that some weak men are apt, as in Preaching and Conference, so in Prayer, to shew their weakness, by some unapt expressions or disorder; which is an evil no way to be compared with the fore-mentioned good, considering that it is but in the weak, and that if that weakness be so great as to require it, Forms might be imposed on those few, without im­posing them on all for ther sakes, (as we force not all to use specta­cles or Crutches, because some are pur-blind or lame,) and consi­dering that God heareth not Prayers for the Rhetorick, and hand­some Cadencies and neatness of expressions, but will bear more with some incuriosity of words (which yet we plead not for) than with an hypocritical, formal, heartless, lip-service; for he knoweth the meaning of the Spirit, even in the groans, which are not uttered in words. And for the Common Prayer, our observation telleth us, that though some can use it judiciously, seriously, and we doubt not profitably, yet as to the most of the vulgar, it causeth a relaxing of their attention and intention, and a lazy taking up with a Corps or image of devotion, even the service of the lips, while the heart is little sensible of what is said: And had we not known it, we should have thought it incredible, how utterly ignorant abundance are of the sense of the words which they hear and repeat themselves from day to day, even about Christ himself, and the essentials of Christianity: It is wonderful to us to observe that rational Crea­tures, can so commonly separate the words from all the sense and Life. So great a help or hinderance even to the understanding, is the awakening, or not awakening of the affections, about the things of God: And we have already shewed you many unfit expressions in the Common Prayer Book, especially in the Epistles and Gospels, through [Page 54] the faultiness of your Translation, as Eph. 3. 15. [Father of all that is called [Father in Heaven and Earth] and that Christ was found in his apparel as a man] [that Mount Sinai, is Agar in Arabia, and bordereth upon the City now called Jerusalem] Gal. 4. 25. [This is the sixth Month which is barren] Luke 1. [And when men be drunk] Joh. 2. with many such like; which are parts of your publick Worship: and would you have us hence conclude, that the mischiefs of such ex­pressions are greater than all the benefits of that Worship? And yet there is this difference in the Cases, that weak and rash Ministers were but here and there one, but the Common Prayer is the Service of every Church and every day: Had we heard any in extemporary Prayers use such unmeet expressions, we should have thought him worthy of sharp reprehension, yea, though he had been of the youn­ger or weaker sort. Divers other unfit expressions are mentioned, in the exceptions of the late Arch-Bishop of York, and Primate of Ireland, and others (before spoken of) and there is much in the prejudice, or diseased curiosity of some Hearers, to make words seem idle, impertinent, or ridiculous, which are not so (and which per­haps they understand not): some thought so of the inserting in the late Prayer Book, the private opinion of the souls of the departed, praying for us, and our praying for the benefit of their Prayers. As for the Security which you call for, (though, as is shewed, you have given us none at all against such errors in your Forms, yet) we have before shewed you, that you have as much, as among imperfect men can be expected: The same that you have, that Physiti­ans shall not murder men, and that Lawyers and Judges shall not undo men, and that your Pilot shall not cast away the Ship: you have the power in your hands, of taking or refusing, as they please or displease you; and of judging them by a known Law, for their proved miscarriages, according to the quality of them; and what would you have more?

Sect. 5.

[To prevent which mischiefs,Ans. the former Ages knew no better way, than to forbid any Prayers in publick, but such as were prescribed by publick Authority. Con. Carthag. Can. 106. Milen. Can. 12.]

Repl. To what you alledge out of two Councils,Rep. we answer, 1. The acts of more venerable Councils are not now at all observed, (as Nice 1. Can. ult. &c.) nor many of these same which you Cite. 2. The Scripture, and the constant practice of the more antient [Page 55] Church allowed what they forbid. 3. Even these Canons shew that then the Churches thought not our Lyturgy to be necessary to their Concord; nor indeed had then any such form imposed on all, or many Churches to that end; for the Can. of Coun. Carthag. (we suppose you meant Coun. 3. Can. 23.) mentioneth Prayers even at the Altar, and alloweth any man to describe and use his own Prayers, so he but first cum instructioribus Fratribus eas conferre, take advice about them with the abler Brethren. If there had been a stated Form be­fore imposed on the Churches, what room could there be for this course? And even this much seems but a caution made newly upon some late abuse of Prayer. The same we say, de Concil. Malevit. Can. 12. if they were but a prudentioribus tractatae, vel comprobatae in Sy­nodo, new Prayers might by any man at any time be brought in; which sheweth they had no such stated publick Lyturgy, as is now pleaded for; and even this seemeth occasioned by Pelagianism, which by this caution they would keep out.

We hope your omission of our eighth Desire (for the use of the new Translation) intimateth your Grant,N. 8. that it shall be so: But we marvel then that we find among your Concessions the alteration of no part but the Epistles and Gospels.

[As they would have no Saints dayes observed by the Church,N. 9. Ans. so no Apocriphal Chapter read in the Church; but upon such a reason as would exclude all Sermons, as well as Apocripha, viz. because the holy Scriptures contain in them all things necessary, either in Doctrine to be believed, or in duty to be practised: If so, why so many unnecessary Ser­mons? why any more but reading of Scriptures? if notwithstanding their sufficiency, Sermons be necessary, there is no reason why these Apocri­phal Chapters should not be as useful, most of them containing excellent Dis­courses, and Rules of morality; it is heartily to be wished that Sermons were as good: if their fear be, that by this means those Books may come to be of equal esteem with the Canon, they may be secured against that by the ti­tle which the Church hath put upon them, calling them Apocriphal; and it is the Churches Testimony which teacheth us this difference; and to leave them out, were to cross the Practise of the Church in former Ages.]

Repl. We hoped when our desires were delivered in writing,Rep. they would have been better observed and understood; we asked not [that no Apocriphal Chapter may be read in the Church] but that none may be read [as Lessons:] For so the Chapters of holy Scripture [Page 56] there read are called in the Boo [...]; and to read them in the same place, under the same Title, without any sufficient note of distin­ction, or notice given to the People, that they are not Canonical Scripture (they being also bound with our Bibles) is such a tempta­tion to the vulgar to take them for Gods Word, as doth much pre­vail, and is like to do so still: And when Papists second it with their confident affirmations, that the Apocriphal Books are Cano­nical, (well refelled by one of you, the R. Reverend Bishop of Durham,) we should not needlesly help on their success. If you cite the Apocripha as you do other human Writings, or read them as Homilies, (when and where there is reason to read such) we spake not against it. To say that the People are secured by the Churches calling them Apocripha, is of no force till experience be proved to be disregardable, and till you have proved that the Minister is to tell the People at the reading of ever such Chapter, that it is but Apocriphal, and that the People all understand Greek, so well as to know what Apocriphal signifieth. The more sacred and honourable are these Dictates of the holy Ghost recorded in Scripture, the grea­ter is the sin by reading the Apocripha, without sufficient distinction to make the People believe, that the Writings of man are the Reve­lation and Laws of God: And also we speak against the reading of the Apocripha, as it excludeth much of the Canonical Scriptures, and taketh in such Books in their steads, as are commonly reputed fabulous. By thus much you may see how you lost your Answer by mistaking us, and how much you will sin against God by denying our desires.

[That the Minister should not read the Communion Service at the Communion Table,N. 10. Ans. is not reasonable to demand, since all the Primitive Church used it; and if we do not observe that Golden Rule of the venera­ble Council of Nice [let antient Customs prevail] till reason plainly re­quires the contrary, we shall give offence to sober Christians, by a causless departure from Catholick usage, and a greater advantage to enemies of our Church, then our Brethren I hope would willingly grant. The Priest standing at the Communion Table, seemeth to give us an invitation to the holy Sacrament, and minds us of our duty, viz. to receive the holy Com­munion, some at least every Sunday; and though we neglect our duty, it is fit the Church should keep her standing.

Repl. We doubt not but one place in it self,Rep. is as lawful as ano­ther; but when you make such differences as have misleading intima­tions, [Page 57] we desire it may be forborn. That all the Primitive Church used when there was no Communion in the Sacrament, to say Service at the Communion Table, is a crude Assertion, that must have better proof before we take it for convincing; And it is not probable, be­cause they had a Communion every Lords day; And if this be not your meaning, you say nothing to the purpose: To prove they used it when there was a Communion, is no proof that they used it when there was none: And you your selves disuse many things more Uni­versally practised then this can at all be fairly pretended to have bin: The Council of Nice gives no such golden Rule as you mention; A Rule is a general, applyable to particular Cases; The Council onely speakes of one particular. [Let the ancient Custom continue in Aegypt, Lybia, and Pentapolis, that the Bishop of Alexandria have the Power of them all.] The Council here confirmeth this particular Custom, but doth not determine in general of the Authority of Custom. That this should be called a Catholick usage, shewes us how partially the word (Catholick) is sometime taken: And that this much cannot be granted us, lest we advantage the Enemies of the Church, doth make us wonder whom you take for its Enemies, and what is that advantage which this will give them; But we thank you that here we find our selves called Brethren, when before we are not so much as spoken to, but your speech is directed to some other (we know not whom) concerning us. Your reason is that which is our reason to the contrary; you say [the Priest standing at the Com­munion Table, seems to give us an invitation to the Holy Communion, &c.] What! when there is no Sacrament by himself or us intended? no warning of any given? no Bread and Wine prepared? Be not de­ceived, God is not mocked. Therefore we desire that there may be no such Service at the Table, when no Communion is intended, because we would not have such grosse dissimulation used in so Holy things, as thereby to seem (as you say) to invite Guests when the Feast is not prepared, and if they came we would turn them empty away. Indeed, if it were to be a private Masse, and the Priest were to receive alone for want of Company, and it were really desired that the People should come, it were another matter. Moreover there is no Rubrick requiring this Service at the Table when there's no Communion.

[It is not reasonable that the Word Minister should be onely used in the Liturgy:N. 11. Ans. for since some parts of the Liturgy may be performed by a Deacon, [Page 58] others by none under the order of a Priest, viz. Absolution, Consecra­tion; it is fit that some such word as Priest should be used for those Offices, and not Minister, which signifies at large every one that ministers in that holy Office, of what order soever he be. The word Curate signifying pro­perly all those, who are trusted by the Bishops with Cure of Souls, as an­ciently it signified, is a very fit word to be used, and can offend no sober Person. The word [Sunday] is ancient, Just. Martyr Ap. 2. and therefore not to be left off.]

Repl. The word [Minister] may well be used instead of Priest, Repl. and Curate, though the word [Deacon] for necessary distinction, stand: yet we doubt not but [Priest] as it is but the English of Presbyter, is lawful: but it is from the common danger of mistake, and abuse that we argue. That all Pastors else are but the Bishops Curates, is a Doctrine that declares the heavy charge, and account of the Bishops, and tends much to the ease of the Presbyters minds, if it could be proved: If by [Curates] you mean such as have not directly by Divine obligation the Cure of Souls, but onely by the Bishops De­ligation: But if the Office of a Presbyter be not of Divine Right; and so, if they be not the Curates of Christ, and Pastors of the Church, none are. And for the ancient use of it, we find not that it was so from the beginning: And as there's difference between the ancient Bishops of one single Church, and a Diocesan that hath many hundreds; so is there between their Curates. But why will ye not yeeld so much as to change the word [Sunday] into [the Lords Day] when you know that the later is the name used by the holy Ghost in Scripture, and commonly by the Ancient Writers of the Church, and more becoming Christians. Just. Martyr, speaking to Infidels, tells how they called the day, and not how Christians called it: All he saith is that on Sunday (that is, so called by the Hea­thens) the Christians hold their Meetings: see the usage of the Church in this point in August. Cont. Faustum Manich. lib. 18. cap. 5.

[Singing of Psalms in Meeter is no part of the Lyturgy, N. 12. Ans. and so no part of our Commission.]

Repl. If the word Lyturgy signifie the publick worship,Rep. God for­bid you should exclude the singing of Psalms: And sure you have no fitter way of singing then in Meeter: When these, and all Pray­ers conceived by private men (as you call the Pastors) whether pre­pared or extemporary, (and by purity of reason Preaching) are cast out, what will your Lyturgy be? We hope you make no question [Page 59] whether singing Psalms, and Hymnes, were part of the Primitive Lyturgy: And seeing they are set forth and allowed to be sung in all Churches, of all the People together, why should they be denyed to be part of the Lyturgy: we understand not the reason of this. N. 13. 14. we suppose you grant by passing them by.

[The Phrase is such,N. 15. Ans. &c.] The Church in her Prayers uses no more offensive Phrase, then Saint Paul uses, when he writes to the Corinthi­ans, Galatians and others, calling them in general, the Churches of God, sanctified in Christ Jesus, by vocation Saints; amongst whom notwith­standing there were many, who by their known sins (which the Apostle endeavoured to amend in them) were not properly such, yet he gives the denomiation to the whole, from the greater part, to whom in Charity it was due, and puts the rest in minde, what they have by their Baptisme undertaken to be, and what they professe themselves to be; and our Pray­ers, and the Phrase of them surely, supposes no more then that they are Saints by calling, sanctified in Christ Jesus, by their Baptisme admitted into Christs Congregation, and so to be reckoned Members of that Society, till either they shall separate themselves by wilful Schisme, or be separated by Legal Excommunication, which they seem earnestly to desire, and so do we.]

Repl. But is there not a very great difference between the Titles given to the whole Church (as you say, from the greater part, as the truth is from the better part, though it were the lesse) and the Titles given to individual members, where there is no such rea­son? We will call the Field a Corn-field, though their be much Tares in it, because of the better part which denominateth: But we will not call every one of these Tares by the name of Corn. When we speak of the Church, we will call it holy, as Paul doth; but when we speak to Simon Magus, we will not call him holy, but say [Thou art in the Gall of bitterness, and the bond of Iniquity, and hast no part, or lot in this matter, &c.] we will not perswade the People that every notorious Drunkard, Fornicator, Worldling, &c. that is buryed, is a Brother, of whose Resurrection to Life Eternal we have sure and certain hope; and all because you will not Excommunicate them; We are glad to hear of your desire of such Discipline: But when shall we see more then desire? and the Edge of it be turned from those that fear sinning, to those that fear it not?

Sect. 1.

[The Connexion of the parts of our Lyturgy,N. 16. is conformable to the [Page 60] example of the Churches of God before us, and have as much dependance as is usually to be seen, in many Petitions of the same Psalm; And we conceive the Order and Method to be excellent, and must do so, till they tell us what that Order is which Prayers ought to have, which is not done here.]

Repl. There are two Rules of Prayer;Rep. one is the Nature of the things compared (in matter and order) with nature and necessity: The other is the revealed Will of God in his Word, in General the holy Scripture, more Especially the Lords Prayer: The Lyturgy (for the greatest part of the Prayers for dayly use) is confused, by which so­ever of these you measure it. You seem much to honour the Lords Prayer by your frequent use of it, (or part of it) we beseech you dis­honour it not Practically, by denying it for matter and order, to be the onely ordinary and perfect Rule; we know about particular Ad­ministrations, where it is but certain Select Requests that we are to put up, suited to the particular subject and occasion, we cannot follow the whole Method of the Lords Prayer which containeth the heads of all the parts, where we are not to take in all the parts; we cannot take them in that order: But that none of all your Prayers should be formed to that perfect Rule; that your Letany which is the comprehensive Prayer, and that the body of your dayly Prayers (broken into severy Collects) should not (as set together) have any considerable respect unto that order, nor yet to the order which reason, and the nature of the thing requireth, (which is observed in all things else) and yet that you should so admire this, and be so te­natious of that, which in conceived Prayer you would call by worse names then Confusions, this sheweth us the power of prejudice: We were thus brief in this Exception, lest we should offend by in­stances: But seeing you conceive the Order and Method to be excel­lent, and to be willing to hear more as to this, and the following Exception, we shall, when you desire it, give you a Catalogue of De­fects, and Disorders, which we before forbore to give you. The Psalms have ordinarily an observable Method: If you find any whole parts you cannot so well set together, as to see the Beauty of Method, will you turn your eye from the rest, and from the Lords Prayer, and choose that one for your President? or excuse disorder on that pretence?

Sect. 2.

[The Collects are made short,Ans. as being best for Devotion, as we ob­served [Page 61] before, and cannot be accounted faulty, for being like those short, but prevalent Prayers in Scripture; Lord be merciful to me a Sinner. Son of David, have mercy on us. Lord increase our Faith.]

Repl. We do in common speech call that a Prayer, Rep. which con­taineth all the substance of what in that business, and addresse we have to say unto God: And that a Petition, which containeth one single request: usually a Prayer, hath many Petitions. Now if you in­tend in your addresse unto God, to do no more then speak a transi­ent request, or Ejaculation (which we may do in the midst of other business) then indeed your instances are pertinent; but why then do you not give over when you seem to have done, but come again, and again, and offer as many Prayers almost as Petitions. This is to make the Prayer short, (as a Sermon is, that is cut into single sentences, every Sentence having an Exordium, and Epilogue as a Sermon) but it is to make the Prayers much longer, then is needful or sutable to the matter. Do you find this the way of the Saints in Scripture? indeed Abraham did so, when Gods Interlocution answering the first Prayer, called him to vary his request, Gen. 18. but that's not our Case. The P [...]alms, and Prayers of David, Solomon, Heze­kiah, Asa, Ezra, Nehemiah, Daniel, and the other Prophets; of Christ, John 17. are usually one continued Speech, and not like yours (as we said before.)

Sect. 3.

[Why the repeated mention of the Name and Attributes of God,Ans. should not be most pleasing to any godly Person we cannot imagine; or what burden it should seem, when David magnified one Attribute of Gods mercy 26. times together; Psalm 36. Nor can we conceive, why the Name and Me­rits of Jesus, with which all our Prayers should end, should not be as sweet to us as to former Saints, and Martyrs, with which here they complain our Prayers, do so frequently end; since the Attributes of God, are the ground of our hope of obtaining all our Petitions, such Prefaces of Pray­ers as are taken from them, though they have no special respect to the Petitions as following, are not to be termed unsutable, or said to have fallen rather casually then orderly.]

Repl. As we took it to be no controversie between us,Rep. whether the mention of Gods Name is deservedly sweet to all his servants, so we thought it was none, that this reverent Name is reverently to be used, and not too lightly; and therefore not with a causeless fre­quency tossed in mens mouths, even in Prayer it self: and that [Page 62] Tautologies and vain repetitions, are not the better, but the worse, because Gods Name is made the matter of them: Is it not you that have expressed your offence (as well as we) against those weak Ministers that repeat too frequently the Name and Attributes of God, in their extemporary Prayers? and is it ill in them? and is the same, and much more, well in the Common Prayer? Oh, have not the Faith of Worship of our Glorious God, in respect of Per­sons. Let not that be called rediculous, idle, impertinent, or worse in one, which is accounted commendable in others. Do you think it were not a faulty crossing of the mind, and Method of Jesus Christ, if you should make six Prayers of the six Petitions of the Lords Prayer, and set the Preface and Conclusion unto each. As, [Our Father which art in Heaven, hallowed be thy Name, for thine is the Kingdom, &c.] and so on all the rest. Yet we know that the same words may be oft repeated (as David doth Gods enduring mercy) without such Tautological vanity, when it is not from emptiness, or neglect of order, or affectation; But in Psalms, or Hymnes, where affections are to be elevated by such Figurative Elegancies, and strains, as are best beseeming Poetry or rapture, we are not against such Repetitions. But if we may (according to the Common Prayer Book) begin, and end, and begin, and seem to withdraw again, and make a Prayer of every Petition or two, and begin and end every such Petition, with Gods Name, and Christs Merits, as making up half the Form, or neer; nothing is an affected, empty tossing of Gods Name in Prayer, if this be not? We are perswaded if you should hear a man in a known extemporary Prayer do thus, it would seem strange and harsh, even to your selves.

Sect. 1.N. 17. Exc. 1. Ans.

[There are besides a preparative exhortation, several preparatory Pray­ers. Despise not, O Lord, humble and contrite hearts, which is one of the Sentences in the Preface; And this, That those things may please him, which we do at this present; at the end of the Absolution: and again immediately after the Lords Prayer before the Psalmody, Oh Lord open thou our Lips, &c.]

Repl. [Despise not O Lord humble, Rep. and contrite hearts] is no Prayer for assistance, and acceptance in that worship, suited to the duty of a People addressing themselves to God: But it is recited, as a Scripture invitation to Repentance. And [that those things may please him which we do at this present] are no words of Prayer, but [Page 63] part of an exhortation to the People: And [O Lord open thou our lips] comes after the Exhortation, Confession, Absolution and Lords Prayer, and (ergo) is not in the place of such an address as we are speaking of. What will not serve to justifie that which we have a mind to justifie, and to condemn that which we have a mind to con­demn?

Sect. 2.

[This which they call a defect,Ans. others think they have reason to account the perfection of the Lyturgie, the Offices of which being intended for common, and general Services would cease to be such, by descending to particulars; as in Confession of Sins, while it is general, all persons may and must joyn in it, since in many things we offend all; but if there be a particular enumeration of Sins, it cannot be so general a Confession, be­cause it may happen that some or other, may by Gods Grace have been preserved from some of those sins enumerated, and therefore should, by confessing themselves guilty, tell God a lye, which needs a new Confession.]

Repl. If General words be its Perfection, Rep. it's very culpable in te­diousness and vain repetitions: For, what need you more than [Lord be merciful to us sinners?] There's together a general Confession of Sin, and a general Prayer for Mercy, which comprehend all the particulars of the Peoples Sins and wants. We gave you our Rea­son, which you answer not. Confession is the exercise of Repen­tance, and also the helper of it; and it is no true Repentance which is not particular, but only general. If you say, you repent that you have sinned, and know not wherein, or do not repent of any par­ticular sin, you do not indeed repent; for sin is not existent, but in the individuals: And if you ask for Grace, and know no what Grace, or desire no particular Grace, indeed you desire no Grace at all. We know there is time and use for general Confessions and Requests; but still, as implying particulars, as having gone before or following; or at least it must be supposed that the People under­stand the particulars included, and have inward Confessions and de­sires of them; which cannot here be supposed, when they are not at all mentioned, nor can the People generally be supposed to have such quick and comprehensive minds; nor is there leisure to exer­cise such particular Repentance or desire, while a general is named. And we beseech you, let the Scripture be judge, whether the Con­fessions and Prayers of the Servants of God have not been parti­cular? As to your Objection or Reason, we answer. 1. There are [Page 64] general Prayers, with the particular or without them. 2. There are particular Confessions and Prayers, proper to some few Christians, and there are others common to all: It is these that we expect, and not the former. 3. The Churches Prayers must be suited to the Body of the Assembly, though perhaps some one or few, may be in a state not fit for such expressions. What a lamentable Lyturgy will you have, if you have nothing in it, but what every one in the Congre­gation may say as true of, and suitable to themselves? Then you must leave out all thanksgiving, for our Justification and forgive­ness of Sins, and Adoption, and title to Glory, &c. because many in the Assembly are Hypocrites, and have no such mercies; and ma­ny more that are sincere, are mistaken in their own Condition, and know not that they have the mercies which they have, and there­fore dare not give thanks for them, lest they speak an untruth. Then the Lyturgy that now speaks, as in the persons of the sanctified, must be changed, that the two fore-mentioned sorts (or the later at least) may consent; and when you have done, it will be unsuitable to those that are in a better state, and have the knowledge of their Justification. This is the Argument which the Sectaries used against singing of David's Psalms in the Congregations, because there is much in them that many cannot truly say of themselves: But the Church must not go out of that way of Worship prescribed by God, and suited to the state of the ordinary sort of spiritual worshippers, because of the distempers, or super-eminent excellencies of some few. It were easie to go over David's Psalms, and your own Ly­turgy, and shew you very much, that by this Argument, must be cast out. He that finds any passage unsuitable to himself, is not to speak it of himself.

Sect. 3.

[As for Original Sin,Ans. though we think it an evil Custom, springing from false Doctrine, to use any such expressions as may lead people to think, that to the persons baptized (in whose persons only our Prayers are offered up) Original Sin is not forgiven in their holy Baptism; yet for that there remains in the Regenerate, some reliques of that, which are to be bewailed; the Church in her Confession acknowledgeth such desires of our own hearts, as render us miserable by following them; That there is no health in us; That without Gods help our frailty cannot but fall; That our mortal nature can do no good thing without him, which is a clear ac­knowledgement of original sin.]

[Page 65] Repl. 1. He that hath his Original Sin forgiven him,Rep. may well confess, that he was born in Iniquity, and conceived in Sin, and was by nature a Child of Wrath, and that by one man sin entered into the World; and that Judgement came on all men to condem­nation, &c. The pardoned may confess what once they were, and from what Rock they were hewn; even actual sins must be confes­sed after they are forgiven (unless the Antinomians hold the truth against us in such points) 2. All is not false Doctrine that crosseth mens private opinions, which you seem here to obtrude upon us. We know that the Papists (and perhaps some others) hold that all the baptized are delivered from the guilt of Original Sin: But (as they are in the dark, and disagreed in the application of it, so) we have more reason to incline to either of the ordinary opinions of the Protestants, than to this of theirs. 1. Some learned Protestants hold, that visibly all the baptized are Church-Members pardoned and justified; which is, but that they are probably justified indeed, and are to be used by the Church (upon a judgement of Charity) as those that are really justified; but that we have indeed no certainty that they are so, God keeping that as a secret to himself concerning individuals, till by actual Faith and Repentance, it be manifest to themselves. Another opinion of many Protestants is, that all per­sons that are Children of the Promise, or that have the conditions of pardon and justification in the Covenant mentioned, are to re­ceive that pardon by Baptism: And all such are pardoned, and cer­tainly in a state of justification and salvation thereupon. And that the Promise of pardon is made to the faithful and their Seed, and therefore that all the faithful and their Seed in infancy, have this pardon given them by the promise, and solemnly delivered them, and sealed to them by Baptism, which investeth them in the benefits of the Covenant: but withal, that 1. The professed Infidel and his Seed, as such, are not the Children of the Promise, and therefore if the Parent ludicrously or forcedly, or the Child by error be bapti­zed, they have not thereby the pardon of their sins before God. 2. That the Hypocrite, that is not a true Believer at the heart, though he profess it, hath no pardon by Baptism before God, as be­ing not an Heir of the Promise, nor yet any Infant of his as such: But though such are not pardoned, the Church that judgeth by pro­fession, taking Professors for Believers, must accordingly use them and their Seed. 3. But though the Church judge thus charitably, of [Page 66] each Professor in particular, till his Hypocrisie be detected, yet doth it understand that Hypocrites there are, and still will be in the Church, though we know them not by name; and that therefore there are many externally baptized, and in Communion, that never had the pardon of sin indeed before God, as not having the condi­tion of the Promise of pardon; such as Simon Magus was: We have less reason to take this Doctrine for false, than that which pronounceth certain pardon and salvation to all baptized Infants whatsoever. And were we of their Judgement, we should think it the most charitable act in the world, to take the Infants of Hea­thens and baptize them; and if any should then dispatch them all to prevent their lapse, they were all certainly saved. We hope by [some Reliques] you mean that which is truly and properly Sin: for our parts, we believe according to the 9th. Article [That Original Sin standeth in the corruption of the nature of every man, whereby man is far gone from original Righteousness, and inclined to evil: And that this infection of nature doth remain in the Regenerate. And though there is no Condemnation against them that believe and are baptized, yet Con­cupiscense and Lust hath of it self the nature of sin] You say [the Church acknowledgeth such desires, &c.] Devices and desires are Actual sins, and not Original, which consisteth in privation, and corrupt inclina­tion. The next words [There is no Health in us] it seems the Transla­tors that put it into the Lyturgy misunderstood; but however you seem here plainly, by your misinterpretation, to misunderstand it. Nulla salus in nobis, is spoken actively, and not possessively, or pas­sively. The plain sense is, there is no Help, Deliverance, or Salvation in our selves; we cannot help our selves out of this misery, but must have a better Saviour. As Christ is oft called our Salvation, so we are denyed to be our own: So that yet here is no Confession at all of Original Sin, but of the effects. The two next Sentences, confess a debility and privation, but not that it was ab Origine; but may for any thing that's there said be taken to be since contracted. Nor are the words in this Confession, but in some other Collects elsewhere, which proves not that this Confession saith any thing of Origi­nal Sin.

Sect. 4.

[We know not what publick Prayers are wanting,Ans. nor do they tell us: the usual Complaint hath been, that there were too many; neither do we conceive any want of publick thanksgivings, there being in the Lyturgy, [Page 67] Te Deum, Benedictus, Magnificat, Benedicite, Glory be to God on high; therefore with Angels, and Arch-Angels, the Doxology, Glory be to the Father, &c. all peculiar, as they require to Gospel-Wor­ship, and fit to express our thanks and honour to God, upon every particu­lar occasion, and occasional Thanksgivings after the Letany, of the fre­quency whereof themselves elsewhere complain, who here complain of de­fect, if there be any Forms wanting, the Church will provide.]

Repl. Rep. We have shewed you in the Forms we offered you, what we judge wanting. The R. Reverend Bishop of Exeter, hath taken notice of the same want, and proposed a supply. Those you name, are either but general Sentences, or extend but to some few particu­lars, as being suited to the persons, and particular occasions of them, and none save the Te Deum designed to be the distinct Praise of the Church, for the benefits of Redemption, as the suitable and sufficient performance of this great part of the Lyturgy: However it will do you no harm, that your Brethren be gratified with fuller expressions, and variety. They that have complained of too many (because you shred your Petitions into almost as many Prayers, and so the Thanksgivings into such briefs) yet complained not of too much; but that too many, by the multitude of Prefaces and Epi­logues, was the cause of too little.

Sect. 5.

[They complain that the Lyturgy contains too many generals,Ans. without mention of the particulars, and the instances are such Petitions as these, [That we may do Gods Will] [To be kept from all Evil] almost the very tearms of the Petitions of the Lords Prayer; so that they must reform that, before they can pretend to mend our Lyturgy in these Petitions.]

Repl. Rep. We complain not that there are Generals, but that there is nothing but Generals in so great a part of your Prayers; and there­fore they are very defective. And if really these Generals suffice you, a few lines may serve instead of your whole Book: Instead of all your Confessions, it may serve to say, that [we have greatly sin­ned] and no more; instead of all your Letany or deprecations, it is enough to say [Deliver us from all Evil] instead of all your Peti­tions for Grace, Peace, Rain, fair Weather, Health, &c. it is enough to say [Give us the Good we want] Indeed the Lords Prayer hath general Requests, because it is the design of it to be the Rule of Prayer, and so contain but the Heads to which all Prayers are to be reduced. But if therefore you will have no more particulars, why [Page 68] do you use any Prayer but the Lords Prayer? We hope you do not think to supply any defects pretended to be found in its Generals, nor to correct the order of it: If it be but because you would not on every particular occasion be so large, as to say the whole, you may take that Head, which suiteth that occasion; and so [give us this day our daily Bread] may serve instead of all the Collects for temporal Supplies: And all your O [...]fices may be blotted out, and one of the Petitions of the Lords Prayer placed in the stead of each of them.

Sect. 6.

[We have deferred this to the proper place, Ans. as you might have done.]

Repl. Rep. It was the proper place under the Head of defectiveness, to instance in this as well as other defects.

Sect. 1.

[We are now come to the main and principal demand,Ans. N. 18. as is pretended, viz. the abolishing the Laws, which impose any Ceremonies, especially three, the Surplice, the sign of the Cross, and kneeling; these are the yoak, which if removed, there might be peace. It is to be suspected, and there is reason for it, from their own words, that somewhat else pinches, and that if these Ceremonies were laid aside, and these or any other Prayers, strictly enjoyned without them, it would be deemed a burden intollerable; it seems so by N. 7. where they desire, that when the Lyturgy is altered, according to the rest of their Proposals, the Minister may have liberty to add, and leave out, what he pleases; yet because the imposition of these Ceremonies, is pretended to be the insupportable grievance, we must of necessity, either yeeld that demand, or shew them reason why we do not; and that we may proceed the better in this undertaking, we shall reduce the sum of their Complaint, to these several Heads, as we find them in their Papers. The Law for imposing these Ceremonies, they would have abrogated for these Reasons.

Repl. Rep. To what you object (to intimate your suspicion of us) from N. 7. we have before answered: We must profess the abate­ment of Ceremonies, with the exclusion of all Prayers and Ex­hortations, besides what's read, will not satisfie us. The Liberty which we desired in all the parts of Worship (not to add to the Ly­turgy, or take from it, but to interpose upon just occasion, such words of Prayer or Exhortation as are requisite, and not to be tyed at every time to read the whole) we are assured will do much to preserve the Lyturgy, and bring it into more profitable use, and [Page 69] take off much of mens offence: And pardon us while we tell you this certain truth, that if once it be known, that you have a design to work out all Prayers (even those of the Pulpit) except such as you prescribe, it will make many thousand people fearing God, to be averse to that which else they would have submitted to, and to distaste both your endeavours and ours, as if we were about drawing them into so great a snare: And as the Proverb is, you may as well think to make a Coat for the Moon, as to make a Lyturgy that shall be sufficiently suited to the variety of places, times, subjects, acci­dents, without the liberty of intermixing such Prayers or Exhorta­tions, as alterations and diversities require.

Sect. 2.

[First, It is doubtful, whether God hath given power to men to im­pose such siguificant signs,Ans. which though they call them significant, yet have in them no real goodness in the judgement of the imposers them­selves, being called by them things indifferent, and therefore fall not un­der St. Pauls Rule of omnia decenter, Cor. 14. nor are suitable to the simplicity of Gospel-Worship.

Secondly, Because it is a violation of the Royalty of Christ, and an im­peachment of his Laws, as unsufficient; and so those that are under the Law of,See Hooker l. 3. sect. 4. Deut. 12. Whatsoever I command you, observe to do, you shall take nothing from it, nor add any thing to it. You do not observe these.

Thirdly, Because sundry Learned, Pious, and Orthodox men, have ever since the Reformation, judged them unwarrantable, and we ought to be as our Lord was, tender of weak Brethren, not to offend his little ones, nor to lay a stumbling-block before a weak Brother.

Fourthly,See Hooker l. 4. sect, 1. Because these Ceremonies have been the Fountain of many evils in this Church and Nation, occasioning sad divisions betwixt Mi­nister and Minister, betwixt Minister and People, exposing many Or­thodox Preachers to the displeasure of Rulers, and no other fruits than these can be lookt for, from the retaining of these Ceremonies.]

Repl. Rep. We had rather you had taken our reasons, as we laid them down, than to have so altered them; E. G. having told you, that some hold them unlawful, and others inconvenient, &c. and de­sired that they may not be imposed on such who judge such imposi­tions, a violation of the Royalty of Christ, &c. you seem to take this as our own sense, and that of all the Ceremonies, of which we there made no mention; You refer us to Hooker, since whose Wri­tings, Ames in his fresh Suit, and Bradshaw, and Parker, and many [Page 70] others have written that against the Ceremonies, that never was an­swered that we know of, but deserve your Consideration.

Sect. 3.Ans.

[Before we give particular Answers to these several Reasons, it will be not unnecessary to lay down, some certain general Premises, or Rules, which will be useful in our whole discourse. First, That God hath not given a Power onely, but a Command also of imposing whatsoever shall be truely decent, and becoming his Publick Service, 1 Cor. 14. After St. Paul had ordered some particular Rules for Praying, praising, prophe­sying, &c. he concludes with this general Canon, let all things be done [...] in a fit Scheme, Habit, or Fashion, Decently; and that there may be Uniformity in those Decent performances, let there be a [...], Rule or Canon for that purpose.]

Rep. Repl. As to your first Rule, we answer. 1. It is one thing to impose in general that all be done Decently, and in Order; This Cod himself hath imposed by his Apostle: And its another thing to impose in par­ticular, that this or that be used as Decent and Orderly. Concerning this we add, It is in the Text said [let it be done:] but not [let it be imposed,] yet from other Scriptures we doubt not but more Circum­stances of Decency and Order, as derermined time, place, Utensils, &c. which are common to things Civil, and Sacred, (though not the Symbolical Ceremonies which afterwards we confute) may be im­posed, with the necessary cautions, and Limitations afterwards laid down. But 1. That if any Usurpers will pretend a Power from Christ to impose such things on the Church, though the things be lawful, we must take heed how we acknowledge an Usurped Power by formal obedience. 2. A just Power may impose them, but to just ends: as the preservarion, and success of the Modified wor­ship, or Ordinances: And if they really conduce not to those ends they sin in imposing them. 3. Yet the Subjects are bound to obey a true Authority in such impositions, where the matter belongs to the Cognizance and Office of the Ruler; and where the mistake is not so great as to bring greater mischiefs to the Church, then the suspending of our Active obedience would do. 4. But if these things be determined under pretence of Order, and Decency, to the plain destruction of the Ordinances Modified, and of the intended end, they cease to be means, and we must not use them. 5. Or if under the names of things Decent, and of Order, men will meddle [Page 71] with things that belong not to their Office, as to institute a new wor­ship for God, new Sacraments, or any thing forbidden in the Gene­ral Prohibition of adding, or diminishing; this is an usurpation, and not an Act of Authority, and we are bound in obedience to God, to disobey them. 6. Where Governours may command at set times, and by proportionable penalties enforce, if they command when it will destroy the end, or enforce by such penalties as dest [...]oy, or crosse it, they greatly sin by such Commands. Thus we have more distinctly given you our sense, about the matter of your first Rule.

Sect. 4.

[Not Inferiours but Superiours must judge what is convenient and decent;Answ. Rule 2. They who must order that all be done decently, must of necessity, first judge what is convenient, and decent to be ordered.]

Repl. Repl. Your second Rule also is too crudely delivered, and there­fore we must adde: 1. A Judgement is a Sentence, in order to some Execution; and Judgements are specified from the ends, to which they are such means; When the question is either, [what Law shall be made, or what penalty shall be exercised?] the Ma­gistrate is the only judge, and not the Bishop or other Subject. In the first he exercises his judicium discretionis, in order to a publick Act. In the second he exerciseth a publick Judgement: When the question is, [what order pro tempore is fittest in Circum­stantials for this present Congregation?] the proper Presbyters or Pastors of that Congregation, are the Directive Judges, by Gods ap­pointment. 3. The Magistrate is Ruler of these Pastors, as he is of the Physicians, Philosophers, and other Subjects. He may make them such general Rules, especially for restraint, to goe by, as may not destroy the exercise of their own Pastoral power: As he may forbid a Physitian to use some dangerous Medicine on his Subjects, and may punish him when he wilfully killeth any of them: But may not on that pretence appoint him what, and how, and when, and to whom he shall administer, and so become Physician himself a­lone. 4. When the question is, [Who shal be excluded from the Com­munion of a particular Church?] The Pastors of that Church (or Congregation) are the first proper Judges. 5. When the question is, [Who shall be excluded from, (or received into) the Communi­on of all the associated Churches, of which we are naturally capable of Communion?] The associated Pastors or Bishops of these Chur­ches in Synods, are Judges; Beyond this there are no Judges.

[Page 72] 6. When the question is, [Whether the Laws of Magistrates, or Canons of Bishops, are agreeable or not to the Word of God, and so the obedience is lawful or unlawful?] the Consciences of each individual Subject is the Judge, per judicium discretionis, as to his own practice; And if men had not this judgement of discerning, but must act upon absolute implicite obedience; then first, man were ruled as unreasonable; Secondly the Magistrate were made a God, or such a Leviathan, as Hobbs describeth him; Thirdly, And then all sin might lawfully be committed, if commanded: But we are assured none of this is your sense.

Sect. 5.

[These Rules and Canons for decency made and urged by Superiours;Answ. Rule 3. Heb. 13. 17. Rom. 13 are to be obeyed by Inferiours, till it be made as clear, that now they are not bound to obey, as it is evident in general, that they ought to obey Superiours; for if the exemption from obedience be not as evident as the Command to obey, it must needs be sin not to obey.]

Repl. Repl. To your third Rule we adde; It is first considerable, what the thing is? and then, how it is apprehended? if it be really lawful, and well commanded, and to be obeyed, it is no ignorance, doubt or errour of the Subject, that can exempt him from the duty of obey­ing; But it may ensnare him in a certainty of sinning, whether he obey, or disobey: For as God commandeth him to obey, and also not to do that which man commandeth, when God forbiddeth it; So he obligeth the erronious, first to lay down his errors, and so to obey. But if a thing be forbidden of God, and commanded of man, and one man erroniously thinks it lawful, and that he should obey, and another is in doubt between both, it is neither a duty, nor lawful for either of them here to obey: For mans errour changeth not Gods Laws, nor disobligeth himself from obedience; But this mans duty is both, to lay by that errour, and to refuse obedience: But if the que­stion be only of the order of such a persons duty: We answer; If the thing be really lawful, and obedience a duty, then he that doubteth or erreth, should if possible suddenly lay by his errours or doubt, and so obey: But if that cannot be, he should first goe about the fit­test means, for his better information till he be resolved, and so o­bey. And so on the contrary, if really the thing commanded be un­lawful, if he be sure of it, he must resolve against it; if he hesitate, he is not therefore allowed to do a thing forbidden, because he is ignorant: For his ignorance is supposed culpable it self; but he is first [Page 73] to consult and use the best means, for his Instruction, till he know the truth, and in the mean time to suspend his Act. But yet because of humane frailty, between several faults, we must consider when we cannot avoid all as we would, in what order most safely to watch and to avoid them. And so when I have done my best, and cannot discern whether a Command be just, and the thing lawful or not; If it hath the face of Idolatry, Blasphemy, or some h [...]inous Sin, that is commanded; and our disobedience have the appearance, but of an effect of involuntary Ignorance, it is more excusable in us to fear the greater sin, and so to suspend till we are better satisfied, than to do that which we suspect, to be so hainous a Sin, though indeed it prove no sin; So on the contrary, if our obedience be like to bring Infamy or Calamity on the Church, and our Obedience ap­pear to be but about a very small sin, if we doubt of it, it is more excuseable to obey, than to disobey, though both be faulty, suppo­sing the thing to be indeed unlawful, and we discerne it not. So that your Rule of obeying, where you are not as sure, &c. Is an unsure Rule, unless as we have fullier cautioned it.

Sect. 6.

[Pretence of Conscience is no exemption from obedience,A [...]sw. Rule 4. for the Law as long as it is a Law, certainly binds to obedience; Rom. 13. Ye must needs be subject; and this pretence of a tender or gainsaying Conscience cannot abrogate the Law, since it can neither take away the Authority of the Law-maker, nor make the matter of the Law in it self unlawful; Besides if pretence of Conscience did exempt from obedience, Laws were useless, whosoever had not list to obey might pretend tenderness of Consci­ence, and be thereby set at liberty, which if once granted, Anarchy and Confusion must needs follow.]

Repl. Repl. To Rule 4. Neither pretence of Conscience, nor real Er­rour of Conscience exempteth from the Obligation to obey: though sometime it may so ensnare, as that obeying shall become of the two, the greater sin; so also real Errour, or pretence of Conscience will justifie no man for obeying, when it is by God for­bidden.

Sect. 7.

[Though Charity will move to pitty,Answ. Rule 5. and relieve those that are tru­ly perplexed or Scrupulous: yet we must not break Gods Command, in Charity to them, and therefore we must not perform publick Services un­decently or disorderly for the case of tender consciences.]

[Page 74] Repl. Repl. O that you would but do all that God alloweth you, yea that he hath commanded you, for these ends! how happy would you make your selves, and these poor afflicted Churches. But as to the instance of your Rule, we answer. 1. VVhen the indecency and disorder is so smal, as that it will not crosse the ends, so much as our disobedience would, we are here so far more comfortable, and peace­able than you, as that we would even in Gods worship, do some things indecent and disorderly, rather than disobey. And so should you do ra­ther than destroy your Brethren, or hinder that peace, & healing of the Church. For Order is for the thing ordered, and not contrarily. For ex­ample, there is much disorder lies in the Common-Prayer-Book, yet we would obey it, as far as the ends of our calling do require. It wouldbe undecent to come without a Band, or other handsome Rai­ment into the Assembly; yet would we obey, if it were comman­ded us, rather than not worship God at all.

We are as confident that Surplices, and Copes are undecent, and kneeling at the Lords Table is disorderly, as you are of the con­trary: And yet if the Magistrate would be advised by us (supposing himself addicted against you) we would advise him to be more charitable to you, than you here advise him to be to us: We would have him, if your Conscience require it, to forbear you in this undecent and disorderly way; But to speak more distinctly. 1. There are some things decent and orderly, when the opposite species is not undecent or disorderly. 2. There are some things undecent, and disorderly, in a small and tollerable degree: And some things in a degree intollerable. 1. VVhen things decent are commanded, whose opposites would not be at all undecent, their Charity and Peace, and Edification, may command a Relaxation, or rather should at first restrain from too severe Impositions: As it is decent to wear either a Cloak or a Gown, a Cassock buttoned, or unbuttoned, with a Girdle or with­out; to sit, stand, or kneel in singing of a Psalm; to sit or stand in hearing the Word read or preached, &c. 2. VVhen a Circumstance is undecent or disorderly, but in a tolerable degree, to an Inconveni­ence; Obedience, or Charity, or Edification, may commaud us to do it, and make it not only lawful, but a duty pro hic & nunc, while the preponderating Accident prevaileth. Christs instances goe at least as far as this, about the Priests in the Temple breaking the Sabbath blamelesly, and David's eating the Shew-bread, which was lawful for none to eat ordinarily, but the Priests: And the Disci­ples [Page 75] rubbing the ears of Corne: [I will have mercy and not Sacrifice] is a lesson that he sets us to learn, when two duties comes together, to preserve the greater, if we would escape sin; And sure to keep an able Preacher in the Church, or a private Christian in Commu­nion, is a greater duty, caeteris paribus, than to use a Ceremony, which we conceive to be decent; It is more orderly to use the bet­ter translation of the Scripture, than the worse, as the Common-prayer-book doth; and yet we would have no man cast out for using the worse: It is more orderly, decent, and edifying for the Minister to read all the Psalms, than for the people to read each second verse; And yet we would not cast out men from the Church or Ministry meerly for that disorder, It is more orderly, and decent to be un­covered in divine worship, than covered: And yet rather than a man should take cold, we could allow him to hear a Chapter or Sermon covered: why not much more, rather than he should be cast out. But let us come to the Application, It is no undecent disorderly worshiping of God, to worship him without our Crosse, Surplice, and kneeling in the reception of the Sacrament. 1. If it were, then Christ and his Apostles had worshipped undecently and disorderly; And the Primitive Church that used not the Surplice, nor the tran­sient Image of the Crosse in Baptism (but in an unguent) yea the Church for many hundred years, that received the Sacrament with­out kneeling. 2. Then if the King, Parliament, and Convoca­tion should change their Ceremonies, it seems you would take your selves bound to retain them; for you say you must not worship God undecently: But that they may be changed by Authority, our Arti­cles determine, and therefore Charity may well require the Magi­strate to change them without any wrong to the worship of God. 3. VVe appeal to the common judgement of the Impartial, whe­ther in the nature of the thing, there by any thing that tels them, that it is undecent to pray without Surplice in the reading place, and not un­decent to pray without in the Pulpit? And that it is undecent to Baptize without Crossing, and not to receive the Lords Supper without: And that it is undecent for the Receiver to take the Lords Supper with­out kneeling, and not for the Minister to give it him standing, that prayeth in the delivery.

Sect. 8.

[These promised we Answer to your first Reason,Answ. 1 that those things which we call Indifferent,Answ. [...] because neither expresly commanded or forbiden [Page 76] by God, have in them a real goodness, a fitness, and decency, and for th [...] cause are imposed, and may be so by the Rule of St. Paul, by which Rule, and many others in Scripture,1 Co. 14. a power is given to men to impose Signs, which are never the worse surely, because they signifie something that is decent and comely, and so it is not doubtful, whether such power be gi­ven; It would rather be doubtful, whether the Church could impose such ildle Signs, if any such there be, as signifie nothing.]

Repl. Rep. To your first Answer we reply. 1. We suppose you speak of a moral Goodness; and if they are such indeed, as are within their power and really good, that is, of their own nature, fitter than their op­posites, they may be imposed by just Authority, by equal means, though not by usurpers, nor by penalties that will do more harm than the things will do good. 2. Signs that signifie nothing, we understand not: It is one thing to be decent, and another [to signifie something that is decent; what you mean by that, we know not. The Cross sig­nifieth our not being ashamed to profess the Faith of Christ crucified, &c.] do you call that something [that is decent?] It is something ne­cessary to Salvation. 3. Signes are exceeding various: At present we use but two distinctions. 1. Some are Signs ex primaria inten­tione iustitnentis, purposed, and primarily instituted to signifie (as an Escucheon, or a Sign at an Inne door in common matters; and as the Sacrament and Cross in sacred matters) and some are Signs but consequently secondarily, and not essentially, as intended by the Institutors (so Hills and Trees may shew us what a Clock it is, and so every Creature signifieth some good of Mercy or Duty, and may be an Object of holy Meditation; so the colour and shape of our Cloaths may mind us of some good, which yet was none of the primary or proper end of the Maker or Wearer.) 2. Signes are ei­ther arbitrary expressions of a mans own mind, in a matter where he is left free; or they are Covenanting Signes between us and God in the Co­venant of Grace, to work Grace on us, as moral Causes, and to engage us Sacramentally to him. Such we conceive the Cross in Baptism to be. The Preface to the Common Prayer Book saith [They are apt to teach and excite, &c.] which is a moral operation of Grace; and the Canon saith [It is an honourable badge, whereby the Infant is dedicated to him that dyed on the Cross] we are signified with it [in token, that hereafter we shall not be ashamed to confess the Faith of Christ crucified, and manfully to fight, &c.] now if a thing may be commanded meer­ly as a decent Circumstance of Worship, yet it is unproved that a thing [Page 77] in its nature as instituted, and in the primary intention, is thus Sa­cramentally to dedicate and engage us in Covenant to God, by signifying the Grace and Duty of the Covenant be lawfully cammanded by man. 1. Decent Circumstances are necessary in genere. There must be some fit time, place, gesture, vesture (as such) utensils, &c. But that there be some such dedicating ingaging Signs, in our Covenanting with God, signifying the Grace of the Covenant, and our state and duty as Soldiers under Christ (besides Gods Sacraments) this is not necessary in genere, and therefore it is not left to man to determine de specie. 2. If there be any reason for this use of the Cross, it must be such as was in the Apostles dayes, and concerneth the universal Church in all ages and places, and then the Apostles would have taken care of it. Thus much here in brief of Signes; and more anon, when you again call us to it.

Sect. 9.

[To the second,Ans. 2. Ans. That it is not a violation of Christs Royalty, to make such Laws for decency, but an exercise of his Power and Authority which he hath given to the Church, and the disobedience to such Commands of Superiours, is plainly a violation of his Royalty; As it is no viola­tion of the Kings Authority, when his Magistrates command things ac­cording to his Laws, but disobedience to the Command of those injun­ctions of his Deputies, is violation of his Authority. Again, it can be no impeachment of Christs Laws, as insufficient, to make such Laws for de­cency, since our Saviour, as is evident by the Precepts themselves, did not intend by them to determine every minute and circumstance of time, place, manner of performance, and the like; but only to command in general the substance of those Duties, and the right ends that should be aimed at in the performance, and then left every man in particular (whom for that purpose he made reasonable) to guide himself by Rules of reason for pri­vate Services; and appointed Governours of the Church, to determine such particularities for the publick. Thus our Lord commanded Prayers, Fasting, &c. But for the times and places of performance, he did not determine every of them, but left them to be guided as we have said. So that it is no impeachment of his Laws, as insufficient, to make Laws for determining those particulars of decency, which himself did not, as is plain by his Precepts, intend to determine, but left us Governours for that purpose, to whom he said [As my Father sent me, even so send I you, and let all things be done decently, and in order] of whom he hath said to us, [Obey those that have the oversight over you] and told us, [Page 78] that if we will not hear his Church, we must not be accounted as Chri­stians, but Heathens and Publicans; And yet nevertheless they will not hear it, and obey it in so small a matter, as a Circumstance of time, place, habit, or the like, which she thinks decent and fit, and yet will be ac­counted the best Christians, and tell us that it is the very awe of Gods Law, Deut. 12. 32. that keeps them from obedience to the Church in these Commands; not well considering that it cannot be any adding to the Word of God, to command things for order and decency, which the Word of God-commands to be done, so as they be not commanded as Gods imme­diate Word, but as the Laws of men; but that is undeniable adding to the Word of God, to say, that Superiours may not command such things which God hath no where forbidden, and taking from the Word of God, to deny that Power to men, which Gods Word hath given them.]

Repl. Rep. To make Laws (to determine of undetermined Circum­stances, necessary in genere, to be some way determined, and left to Magistrates or Ministers de specie, and to do this according to the ge­neral Rule of Scripture, and in order to the main end, and not against it) is not against the Royalty or Will or Christ; but to make new dedicating Covenanting Symbols, to signifie the Doctrine of the Covenant of Grace, and solemnly engage us unto God, and place these in the publick Worship, which are not meer Circumstances, but substantial Institutions, not necessary in genere (that there should be any such at all, besides Gods Sacraments) we fear this is a vio­lation of the Royalty of Christ, and a reflection on his Laws, as in­sufficient. For, 1. If it belong to the Power proper to Christ, then it is a violation of his Royalty, for any man to exercise it; but it be­longeth to the Power proper to Christ, Ergo, &c. The Minor is proved thus: If it belong to the universal Head, or Ruler of the Church, as such; then it belongs to the Power proper to Christ; (for we are ready to prove there is now under him, no universal Head or Ruler, personally, or collectively and civilly one) But, &c. If in the Reason of it, it should be the matter of an universal Law, if any, then it should be the work of the universal Law-giver, if any: But, &c. If in the Reason of it, it be equally useful to the Church, universal as to any particular Church, or Age, then it should according to the reason of it, be the matter of an universal Law, if of any: But, &c. It hath the same aptitude, to engage us to a duty of universal necessity, and hath no reason proper to this Age, or Place for it; but common to all. Moreover, it is no where com­mitted [Page 79] to the power or care of man; Ergo, it is proper to the Care and Power of Christ; no Text is shewed that giveth man power in such things: To do all things decently and orderly, and to edifica­tion, is no giving of power on that pretence, to make new Cove­nanting dedicating Signs: To do Gods work decently, &c. is not to make more such of our own heads; it's but the right modify­ing of the work already set us. And to do all decently, orderly, and to edification, was a duty in Moses time, when yet such things as these in question might not be added by any but God: (when we say by God, we mean by his inspired Instruments; and when we say by Christ, we mean by his inspired Instruments) If we should make Laws, that every one is publickly to taste Vineger and Gall, as a Sign that we are not ashamed of, but resolved through all fresh-displea­sing di [...]ficulties to follow Christ, that did so, and thus to engage and dedicate our selves to him; this were to do more than to [do all things decently and orderly] which he appointed. If milk were to be pub­lickly suckt or drank by all in profession, that we will feed on the sincere Milk of his Word, and so to dedicate us to him by Cove­nant: Or, if we were to put on an Helmet, and other Armour, in token that we will be his Soldiers to the death, and manfully fight under, &c. These Ingagements, by such publick signs, are Sacra­ments in the sense, as the word was used of old, when it signified a Soldiers solemn listing, or covenanting with his Commander. Thus by distinguishing decent and orderly modes, and Circumstances necessary in genere, from new Ordinances, even solemn dedicating, covenanting, or such like mystical Signs; we have shewed you what we grant, and where you fail, and what is indeed a wrong to Christ, and an accusation of his Laws, and what not? and how unjust your following accusation of us is (who never yet told you, we would be accounted the best Christians; but to desire to please Christ as neer as we can, is not blame worthy.) Abundance of things of lesser mo­ment than these, are commanded by God in the Law, to which he addeth, that Sanction, Deut. 12. 12. Whatever things I command thee, &c. And we conceive, that the words [As my Father sent me, so, &c.] had somewhat proper to the extraordinary Mission: [And if he hear not the Church, &c.] is neither spoken of a Church univer­sal, nor of Magistrates making Laws for such Ceremonies or Signs: But if he hear not that Church, with which he was in Communion, and which admonisheth him for his sin, let that Church reject him from their Communion.

Sect. 10.

[The Command for decent Ceremonies,Ans. 3. Ans. may still continue in the Church, notwithstanding the 12. of Deut. and so it may too, for all the exceptions taken against them, by sundry Learned, Pious, and Orthodox persons, who have judged them they say unwarrantable; and if Laws may be abroga­ted as soon as those that list not to obey, will except against them, the world must needs run into confusion; but those that except are weak Bre­thren, whom by Christs Precept and Example we must not offend. If by weak we understand ignorant, they would take it ill to be so accounted, and it is their own fault if they be, there having been so very much written, as may satisfie any that have a mind to be satisfied. And as King James of blessed memory, said at Hampton Court (if after so many years Preaching the Gospel, there be any yet unsatisfied, I doubt it proceeds ra­ther out of stubborness of opinion, than out of tenderness of Conscience; if by tenderness of Conscience, they mean a fearfulness to sin, this would make them most easie to be satisfied, because most fearful to disobey Supe­riours.) But suppose there be any so scrupulous, as not satisfied with what hath been written, the Church may still without sin, urge her Command for these decent Ceremonies, and not be guilty of offending her weak Bro­ther; for since the scandal is taken by him, not given by her, it is he that by vain scrupulosity offends himself, and layes the stumbling-block in his own way.]

Repl. Rep. But the Command for mans Institution of a new Worship of God, or Rites Sacramental, are so like to Sacraments as the Cross is; or for the unnecessary imposition of unnecessary things, which should be left to every prudent Ministers discretion, and this upon pain of being cast out of the Church or Ministry; and the Law for subscribing that all these are lawful, and for swearing obedience to the Bishops; all these Laws are not to be found in Scripture. If you should but command your Servant, to do what you bid him, de­cently and orderly, you would think he mistook you, if upon that pretence he would do any other work, which he could but say tended to the decency of yours. And we would gladly hear, what you can think your selves, is forbidden in Deut. 12. 32. if not such humane Ordinances? And why you forbear giving the truer sense of the Text? It is a sad Case with the poor Church, when Gods Wisdom that made a few and necessary things, the matter of his Churches Concord, is no more valued, but we will be wiser; and when the experience of the Church, that hath been torn into pieces 1400. [Page 81] years, by mens inventions, and needless usages and impositions, is yet of no more force with us that come after them; but whatever can be said, or done, or seen, we will still make Laws, that all men shall be tantum non, unchristned, and damned (that is, cast out of the Ministry or Church-Communion) that will not wear this or that, or bow thus or thus, or look this way or that way, or say this word or that word; and when we have laid such a needless snare, we will uncharitably cry out [that the world will be brought into Confusion, because men that list not to obey, would have the Laws abrogated] where hath Christ set you to make such Laws? Is it not work enough for us and you, to obey the Laws that he hath made? why made he none for Postures, and Vestures, and Words, and Teaching Signs of this nature, if he would have had them? If he had not told us, that there is one Law-giver, one Lord; and that his Word is able to make us wise unto Salvation; and that he would lay no greater burden on us, than necessary things, and would not have us despise or judge each other on such occasions: If he had but told us, that he left any Of­ficers after his inspired Apostles, for the making of Ceremonies, or new Laws of Worship, or Teaching engaging Signs for the Church, we would as gladly understand and obey his Will in these things, as you. What hurt is it to us, to use a Cross or other Ceremony, if it were not for fear of disobeying God? Enforce Gods Law upon us, as zealously as you will, and see if we will disobey it: But that the world shall run into confusion, rather than we shall leave to serve God, as Peter and Paul did, without Crossing, Surplices, and kneel­ing at the Sacrament, and then that we shall be reproached as the Cause of all, by our disobedience: God hath told the world by his Word, and will tell them by his Judgements, that this is not his way to Unity and Peace. As to your Argument, from your Bre­threns weakness, we say, 1. It is not your strength to slight it, or them; nor is it their weakness, that they are willing to be esteemed weak. The Apostle called those weak, that placed a necessity in indifferent things, Rom. 14. and not those that understood their indifferency. But the truth is, the nature of things indifferent, is not well un­stood by all on either side; some may think evil of some things that deserve it not, and in this they are weak, though in other mat­ters they may be strong. And for the rest, we speak according to the worst, that you your selves can charitably suppose: you can say no more of them, but that they are weaker, that is, in this know less [Page 82] then you: though perhaps we may take them to be stronger, that is to be more in the right; yet are we not so confident, as to censure you or others; but speak of things difficult, and doubtful, as they are. But how prove you that we would take it ill, to be our selves, or have those we speak of accounted ignorant in such things as these? use us no worse then the ignorant should be used. And till you would turn a man out of the Ministry, or Church, for being ignorant of the nature of a Ceremony (which never was in his Creed, the Decalogue or Scripture) deal not so by us, that would be wiser if we knew how; That all our ignorance is our own fault we deny not; But it is an excesse of confidence, and uncharitableness, to tell us that there is so very much written as may satisfie any man [that hath a mind to be satisfied] when we professe in his sight that knoweth the hearts, that we have a mind to be satisfied, and would know the truth, at what rate soever if we knew how: what would you have us to do that we do not, to be satisfied? Do we not read as much for Ceremonies, as the dissenters use to do against them? many Books against them are yet uuanswered: as we never shuned any Publick or private con­ference with any of you, and such reasonings are not like to con­vince us. If you will be the Judges of your Brethrens hearts, and say it is not tenderness of Conscience, but stubbornness, we shall refer that to the day, when your hearts, and ours shall all be opened. Must none be tender Conscienced, that dare not venture to obey you in such things? when you may with undoubted safety forbear the imposing of your Ceremonies, and so forbear the casting out of your Brethren, if you will not, who shews less tenderness of Conscience? That the scandal is taken, and not given, is still the thing in questi­on, as to many things: And if it were no just occasion of offence, yet you ought not to lay that which others weakness will turn into a stumbling block, unnecessarily before them. If the Apostles Argu­ment be good, Rom. 14. The Church may not urge unlawful things, nor things meerly lawful, upon such penalties, as will exclude things necessary. If an idle word be to be accounted for, an idle Law is not laudable, much less when all men must be excluded the Ministry o [...] Communion that scruple it; when yet a man may be a prophane Swearer, for 12. pence an Oath, and may swear an 100. times, before he payes that 12. pence. A Papist shall pay 12. pence for not coming to Church, and a Protestant be thrust out of your Communion, for not kneeling at the Sacrament, and a Minister [Page 83] suspended, imprisoned, undone, for not crossing a Child, or wear­ing a Surplice. May Magistrates, or the Church rhus urge their commands? can any thing be spoken plainer then the Scripture speaks against this course? And would you make the world believe, that the Brethren that do not all that you bid them, are so unrea­sonably, and obstinately scrupulous, as to have no matter of offence but what they lay before themselves, when they have the Practise of the Apostles, and the Custom of the Primitive Church, for many hundred years against you, and this called by them an Apostolical Tradition, and decreed by the most venerable Councils that ever were? If you had but one of these, (the decree of a General Coun­cil, or Practice of all the purest Church alone) for one of your Ceremonies, you would think him uncharitable, that so reproached you for pretending Conscience.

Sect. 11.

[The Case of St. Paul not eating flesh,Ans. if it offended his Brother, is nothing to the purpose; who there speakes of things, not Commanded ei­ther by God, or by his Church, neither having in them any thing of Decency, or Significancy to serve in the Church; St. Paul would de­ny himself his own Liberty, rather than offend his Brother. Bnt if any man breakes a just Law or Custom of the Church, he brands him for a Lover of Schisme and Sedition, 1 Cor. 11. 16.]

Repl. Repl. But because at our last Meeting, it was said with so much confidence by one, that the Case in Rom. 14. and 15. was nothing to ours, we shall here say the more to what you say, that Pauls not eating flesh is nothing to the purpose: your reasons are, 1. Because he speakes of nothing commanded by God, or his Church. 2. Nor of any thing of Decency, or significancy to serve in the Church. To the first we have often told you, that which is undeniable, 1. That Paul was a Governour of that Church himself, that had no Superior to con trole him: If you say then, that he wrote not as a Governor; we Answer, yes: for he wrote as an Apostle, and wrote that Epistle that was to be a standing Law, or Canon to them; If this be no act of his Office, and Authority, there was none such; And then you must say the like of all the rest of the Epistles. 2. Moreover as Paul the Apostle excludeth all such impositions, so he wrote to all the Resident Pastors that were at Rome, for he wrote to the whole Church: and therefore these commands extend to the Go­vernours, that they make not such things the matter of Contempt or Censures, or any uncharitable course, but bear with one another in [Page 84] them. Will you call men obstinate self-offenders, that differ from you, when you have no better Answers then these to the plain de­cisions of the holy Ghost? what we speak of Rom. 14. 15. we speak also of 1 Cor. 8. And 3. It is to the Rulers of the Church that we are speaking, and it is they that answer us: And shall the Rulers say [if it were not a thing commanded we might bear with you] when it is themselves that command them Ecclesiastically; and we intreat them but to forbear that, and to concur with us in Petitioning the King to forbear commanding them coercively; who no doubt will easily forbear it, if they do their part. 4. Yea a fortiore it layeth a heavier charge on such Governours then others. If it be so hainous a Sin as Paul maketh it to censure, or despise one another, for meats and dayes, and such like things, how much more to Excommuuicate, silence, and undo one another? and deprive thousands of Souls of the Preaching of the Gospel, that consented not to their Pastor's non­conformity? 5. Paul letteth you know, that those things are not the Center or matter of our necessary Concord, but of mutual forbearance, and therefore condemneth all that will make them necessary to our Unity, Ministry, or Communion. 6. And the difference is wholly to the advantage of our Cause; for those that Paul spoke to, were not come so high as to go about to force others to do as they did, but one­ly to despise them for not doing it. 2. And therefore to the second Reason we answer. 1. If the things had been different, yet so was Pauls Injunction different from our request; for Paul goeth so high as to command them to deny their own Liberty, in not eating lawful meats themselves, least they offend, and hurt their Breth [...]en; where­as we are now but desiring you, that you would not force others to do that which they take to be a sin, and that with penalties that fall heavier on the Church, then on them; They had on both sides fairer pretences then you have: The Cases before us to be compared are four; the Case of the refusers of meats and observers of dayes then: The Case of the users of those meats, and not observers of those dayes: The Case of our imposers: And the Case of non-conformists: The pretence that their refusers of meats had, in 1 Cor. 8. was, that being offered to Idols, they thought it made them partakers of the Idolatry; and so they sinned through weakness in being offended at others, and censuring them that used their Liberty: And had they not here a fairer pretence for their offence and censures, then you for your impositions? You cannot shew half so great an appearance of good in the things commanded, as they could do of Evil in the things [Page 85] for which they were offended. And the offended censurer in Rom. 14. had this pretence, that the thing was forbidden in Gods own Law, even the meats which he refused; and the dayes cōmmanded which he observed: And he knew not that the Law in these matters of Order and Ceremony was abrogated (which Peter himself was igno­rant of, when he refufed to eat things common and unclean:) But you have no pretence of Gods own command for the matter of your im­positions, as these men had for the matter of their offence, and censure: so that here you are on the worser side. And for the other party, that in 1 Cor. 8. abused their Liberty: and Rom. 14. despised their Brethren, they had a double pretence: one was, that it was their Liberty; and if every scrupulous party should drive them from their lawful meat, and drink, they knew not whither they might drive them: Ano­ther was, that the Law was abrogated by Christ; and therefore if they complyed in practice with the scrupulous, or did not shew their difference, they might seem to be guilty of the restoring of the Law, and complying with the Jewes and the Hereticks, that both then were enemies to the Church, and agreed in this; had not these men now a fairer pretence for eating, 1 Cor. 8. and for the dissent shewed, Rom. 14. then you ever yet produced for forcing others from Mini­stry, and Church, (or into sin, and Hell, if they will obey you against their Consciences) and all for that which you never pretend­ed to shew a command of God for? And others shew you (as they think) Scripture, and Councils, and Custom against: To tell us then that Paul spake of things [not Decent and Significant] is (pardon our plainness) to say much less then nothing: For it was not against im­posing that Paul spake, but using, and not using, censuring and despising; and their Arguments were (suitable to their Cause) of another kind of moment, than Decency or Indecency, Significancy or Insignificancy, even from supposed Idolatry rejecting Gods Law, and complying with Jews, and Hereticks, in restoring the Law, and casting away the Liberties purchased by Christ, even in their private eating, and drinking. To be no more tedious now, we humbly offer in any way convenient to try it out, with the Reverend Brother that so confi­dently asserted the disparity of the cases; and to prove, that these Scriptures most plainly condemn your impositions now in qnestion; though we should have thought, that one impartial reading of them might end the controversie, and save the Church and you from the sad effects. As to that, 1 Cor. 11. 16. we answer, 1. It is uncertain whether the word [Custom] refer to the matter of Hair, or to contention: so many [Page 86] Expositors judge, q. d. [the Churches of God are not contentious] 2. Here is no Institution (muchless by fallible men) of new Covenant­ing, Dedicating, or Teaching Symbols, or Ceremonies; nor is here any unnecessary thing enjoyned, but that which nature, and the Custom of the Country had made so decent, as that the opposite would have been abusively indecent: This is not your Case. A Cross or Surplice is not decent by nature, or common reputation, but by Institution (that is, not at all; for if it be not instituted, because decent, it will not be decent, because instituted) nor are these so decent, as the oppo­site to be indecent. The Apostles worshipped God as decently with­out them, as you do with them: The Minister prayeth in the Pulpit, as decently without the Surplice, as in the Reading place with it. 3. Paul doth but exhort them to this undoubted Comeliness (as you may well do, if men will do any thing, which nature or common reputa­tion makes to be slovenly, unmannerly or indecent, as being covered in Prayer, or singing Psalms, or any such like; about which we will never differ with you:) But even here, he talks not of force, or such penalties as tend to the greater hurt of the Church, and the ruin of the person.

Sect. 12.Ans. 4. Ans.

[That these Ceremonies have occasioned many Divisions, is no more fault of theirs, than it was of the Gospel, that the Preaching of it, oc­casioned strife betwixt Father and Son, &c. the true Cause of those Di­visions, is the Cause of ours, which St. James tells us is Lust, and in­ordinate desires of Honour, Wealth, or Licentiousness, or the like: were these Ceremonies laid aside, there would be the same Divisions. If some, who think Moses and Aaron take too much upon them, may be suf­fered to deceive the People, and to raise in them vain fears and jealousies of their Governours; but if all men would, as they ought, study peace and quietness, they would find other, and better fruits of those Laws of Rites, and Ceremonies, as Edification, Decency, Order, and Beauty, in the Service and Worship of God.]

Repl. Whether the Ceremonies be as innocent, as to Divisions, as the Gospel (a strange Assertion) will better appear, when what we have said, and what is more fully said by Dr. Ames, Bradshaw, and others, is well answered. If the true Cause of our Divisions be as you say [Lust, and inordinate desires of Honour, or Wealth, or Licen­tiousness] then the party that is most lustful, ambitious, covetous, and licentious, are likest to be most the Cause. And for Lust and Licen­tiousness, we should take it for a great attainment of our ends, if [Page 87] you will be intreated to turn the edge of your severity against the Lustful and Licentious. O that you would keep them out of the Pul­pits, and out of the Communion of the Church, till they reform! And for our selves, we shall take your Admonitions or Severities thankfully, when ever we are convicted by you, of any such sins. We are loth to enter upon such Comparisons, between the Ministers ejected, for the most part, and those that are in their rooms, as tends to shew by this Rule, who are likest to be the Dividers. And for inordinate desires of Honour and Wealth, between your Lordships and Us, we are contented that this Cause be decided by all England, even by our enemies, at the first hearing, without any further vin­dication of our selves; and so let it be judged who are the Divi­ders. Only we must say, that your intimation of this Charge on us, that seek not for Bishopricks, Deaneries, and Archdeaconries, or any of your preferments; that desire not, nor would accept plura­lities of Benefices, with Cure of Souls; that never sought for more than Food and Raiment, with the liberty of our Ministry, even one place, with a tollerable Maintenance, whose provoking Cause, hath been our constant opposition to the Honours, Wealth, Lordships, and pluralities of the Clergy; yea, who would be glad on the be­half of the poor Congregations, if many of our Brethren might have leave to Preach to their Flocks for nothing. We say your intima­tion maketh us lift up our hands and hearts to Heaven, and think, O what is man! what may not by some History be told the World! O how desirable is the blessed day of the righteous universal Judge­ment of the Lord! How small a matter till then should it be to us, to be judged of man! We hope upon pretence of not suffering us to deceive the People, you will not deny liberty to Preach the neces­sary saving Truths of the Gospel, considering how terrible a Symp­tom and Prognostick, this was in the Jews, 1 Thes. 2. 15, 16. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own Prophets, and persecuted the Apostles, and God they pleased not, and were contrary to all men, forbid­ding to Preach to the Gentiles, that they might be saved; to fill up their sins alwayes: for wrath was come upon them to the utmost. We can as easily bear whatever you can inflict upon us, as the hinderers of the Gospel, and Silencers of faithful Ministers, and troublers of the Churches, can bear what God will inflict on them; and so the Will of the Lord be done.

Sect. 13.

[There hath been so much said,Ans. not only of the lawfulness, but also of the conveniency of these Ceremonies mentioned, that nothing can be ad­ded. This in brief may here suffice for the Surplice, that reason and ex­perience teaches, that decent Ornaments and Habits, preserve Reverence and awe; held therefore necessary to the solemnity of Royal Acts, and Acts of Justice; and why not as well to the solemnity of Religious Wor­ship? and in particular, no Habit more suitable than white Linnen, which resembles Purity and Beauty, wherein Angels have appeared, Rev. 15. fit for those whom the Scripture calls Angels. And this Habit was an­cient, Chrysost. Hom. 60. ad pop. Antioch.]

Repl. 1. If nothing can be added,Repl. then we doubt the answered Writings extant against these Impositions, will never be well an­swered. 2. We are desirous that no undecent Vestures or Habits, be used in Gods Service. Those that scruple the Surplice, do it not as it is a Habit determined of as decent; but as they think it is made an holy Vestment, and so a part of external Worship, as Aaron's Vest­ments were; (as may be seen in the Arguments of Cotton and Nichols, lately Printed together.)

Sect. 14.

[The Cross was alwayes used in the Church,Ans. in immortali lavacro, Tertul. And therefore to testifie our Communion with them, as we are taught to do in our Creed; as also in token that we shall not be ashamed of the Cross of Christ. It is fit to be used still, and we conceive cannot trouble the Conscience of any that have a mind to be satisfied.]

Repl. That the Cross was alwayes used in the Church in Baptism,Rep. is an Assertion certainly untrue; and such as we never heard nor read till now. Do you believe it was used in the Baptism of the Eunuch, Lydia, the Jalor, Cornelius, the 3000. Acts 3. or in those times? And when it did come up, it was with Chrysm, and not our airy tran­sient Image; and therefore you so far differ from the users. 2. The Condemnation of Genuflection on the Lords dayes in adoration, was at least as ancient and universal, and commanded by Councils, when the Cross was not; and yet you can dispense with that, and many such usages. And if you will your selves fall in with Custom, yet every ancient common Custom, was never intended to be a matter of necessity to Union or Tolleration of our Brethren; use no other force about the Cross than the Church then did. Your saying, that you [conceive it cannot trouble the Conscience of any that have a mind to be [Page 89] satisfied] doth but express your uncharitable censeriousness, while your Brethren have studied, and prayed, and conferred for satisfaction, it's like, as much as you, and profess their earnest desires of it, and their readiness to hear or read any thing that you have to say, in order to their satisfaction.

Sect. 15.

[The posture of kneeling, Ans. best suites at the Communion, as the most convenient, and so most decent for us, when we are to receive as it were from Gods hand, the greatest of seals of the Kingdom of Heaven; he that thinks he may do this sitting, let him remember the Prophet Mal. Offer this to the Prince, to receive his Seal, from his own hand sitting, see if he will accept of it; when the Church did stand at her Prayers, the manner of receiving was, more Adorantium, St. Aug. Psal. 98. Cyril. Catech. Mystag. 5. rather more than at Prayers, since standing at Prayer hath been left, and kneeling used instead of that, (as the Church may vary in such indifferent things) now to stand at Communion, when we kneel at Prayers, were not decent, much less to sit, which was never the use of the best times.]

Repl. To all this about kneeling,Rep. we say, 1. We have consider­ed the Text in Mal. and what you say; and yet, 1. We find that our Betters, even Christs Apostles, and the universal Church, for many hun­dred years, thought not kneeling most decent; nor did the Church, in the first Age, think sitting unmeet in that Service, to the King of the Church: And we hope you reprehend them not. 2. You require not the Adult, that are baptized, to receive that Seal or Sacrament knee­ling. 3. When kneeling at Prayers was in use, in the Apostles times, yet kneeling in the reception of the Sacrament was not. 4. Why can you so lightly put off, both the Practice and Canons of the Church in this, more than in other such things? However you cannot here deny de facto, but that kneeling on the Lords dayes in the receiving the Sacra­ment, was for many hundred years, of the purer times of the Church, disused and condemned: And why do you not tell us, what other General Council repealed this, that we may see whether it be such, as we are any way bound by? When you say [the Church may vary in such indifferent things] 1. If kneeling or standing at Prayer, be an indifferent thing, then so are they at this Sacrament. 2. Then you follow the Changers, and we the old Pattern. 3. Then the Canons of general Councils and Customs, pretended to be from Apostolical Tra­dition, may be changed. 4. What is it, that you call the Church that changeth, or may change these? A Council, or a popular Custom? Bring us not under a forraign Power. 5. The thing then being so in­different [Page 90] and changeable, you may change it if you please, for ends that are not indifferent. 6. And if now the Ministers may Pray standing, why may not the People receive standing? 7. When you say, that [to sit, was never the use of the best times] you deny the Apo­stles, and primitive times to be the best; as to the extent of the Church, they were not the best, but as to the purity of administrations they were.

Sect. 16.

[That there were ancient Lyturgies in the Church,Ans. is evident, St. Chrysostom's, St. Basil's, and others: And the Greeks tell us of St. James, much elder than they; and though we find not in all Ages whole Lyturgies, yet it is certain that there were such in the eldest times, by those parts which are extant, as Sursum Corda, &c. Gloria Patri, Be­nedicite, Hymnus Cherubinus, &c. Vere dignum & justum, &c. Dominus vobiscum, & cum Spiritu tuo, with divers others. Though [...]hose that are extant may be interpolated, yet such things as are found in them, all consentient to Catholick primitive Doctrine, may well be pre­sumed to have been from the first, especially since we find no Original of these Lyturgies from General Councils.]

Repl. We know there wanteth not a Lyndanus, Repl. a Coccius, to tell the world of St. Peters Lyturgy, which yet prayeth, that by the In­tercession of Peter and Paul, we may be defended, &c. and mentioneth Lynus, Cletus, Clemens, Cornelius, Cyprian, Lucia, Barbara, and abun­dance such; shall we therefore conclude that there were Lyturgies from the first, and that what is here consentient to Antiquity wa [...] in it? There wants not a Marg. de la Bigne, a Greg. de Valent. a Coccius to commend to us the Lyturgy of Mark, that praye [...]h (protege Civitatem istam propter Martyrem tuum, & Evangelistam Marcum, &c. and tells us, that the King, where the Author lived, was an Orthodox Chri­stian, and prayeth for the Pope, Subdeacons, Lectors, Cantors, Monks, &c. must we therefore believe, that all that's Orthodox in it, is an­cient? So there wants not a Bigne, Bellarm. &c. to tell us of St. James his Lyturgy, that mentions the Confessors, the Deiparam, the Ancherets, &c. which made Bellarm. himself say, (de Lyturgia Ja­cobi sic sentio, eam non esse ejus, aut multa a posterioribus eidem addita sunt) and must we prove the Antiquity of Lyturgies by this, or try ours by it? There wants not a Sainctsius, a Berllarm▪ a Valentia, a Paresius, to predicate the Lyturgy of St. Basil, as bearing witness to Transubstantiation, for the Sacrifice of the Mass, for Praying to Saints, &c. when yet the exceeding disagreement of Copies, the difference of some Formes from Basil's ordinary Forms, the Prayers for the [Page 91] most Pious and faithful Emperours, shew it unlikely to have been Ba­sils: Many predicate Chrysostom's Mass or Lyturgy; as making for praying to the dead, and for them, the propitiatory Sacrifice of the Mass, &c. when in one Edition Crysost. is prayed to in it, saith Cook; in another, Nicolaus and Alexius, that lived about 1080. is mentio­ned; in another, Doctrines are contained (as de Contaminata Ma­ria, &c.) clean contrary to Chrysostom's Doctrine; must we now conclude, that all is Ancient, that is Orthodox, when one Copy is scarce like another? or can we try our Lyturgy by such as this? The shreds cited by you prove a Lyturgy indeed, such as we have used while the Common Prayer Book was not used, where the Psalms, the words of Baptism, of Consecration, Commemoration, and delivery of the Lord's Supper, and many other, were used in a constant Form, when other parts were used as the Minister found most meet; so Sur­sum Corda was but a warning before, or in the midst of Devotion, such as our [Let us Pray] and will no more prove, that the substance of Prayer was not left to the Ministers present or prepared Concep­tion, than Ite Missa est, will prove it. The Gloria Patri, Bellarm. himself saith, according to the common opinion, was formed in the Conncil of Nice, which was in the 4th. Century. And even then such a particular testimony against the Arrians, might well stand with a body of unimposed Prayers; and rather shews, that in other things they were left at liberty. If the Benedicite, the Hymns, or other pas­sages here mentioned, will prove such a Lyturgy as pleaseth you, we pray you bear with our way of Worship, which hath more of Hymns and other Forms, than the [...]e come to. That these Lyturgies had no Original from General Councils, adds nothing with us to their Au­thority, but sheweth that they had an arbitary Original; and all set together shews, that then they had many Lyturgies in one Princes Do­minion, and those alterable, and not forced; and that they took not one Liturgy to be any necessary means to the Churches Uni [...] or Peace, but bore with those that used various at discretion. We well remember that Tertul. tels the Heathens, that Christians shewed by their con­ceived Hymns, that they were sober at their Religious Feasts; it be­ing their Custom [ut quisque de Scripturis sanctis, vel de proprio inge­nio potest, provocetur in medium Deo canere] Apol. cap. 39. Note here, 1. That though there be more need of Forms for Singing, than for Praying; yet even in this, the Christians in publick had then a liberty of doing it de proprio ingenio, by their own wit or parts. 2. That those that did not de proprio ingenio, did it de Scripturis sanctis, and that [Page 92] there is no mention of any other Lyturgy, from which they fetcht so much as their Hymnes. And the same Tertul. Apol. c. 30. describing the Christians publick Prayers, saith [sine monitore, quia de pectore oramus] [we pray without a Monitor or promptor, because we do it from the heart, or from our own breast,] And before him Just. Mar. Ap. 2. p. 77. saith; [...]. But if all these words seem not plain enough to some, it is no wonder when they rest not in the greater plainness of the holy Scriptures, where Prayer is so frequently men­tioned, as much of the imployment of believers, and so many di­rections, encouragments and exhortations given about it, and yet no Liturgy or stinted form; except he Lords Prayer is prescribed to them, or once made mention of, no man directed here to use such, no man exhorted to get him a Prayer Book, or to read or learn it, or to be­ware that he add or diminish not: whereas the holy Scriptures that were then given to the Church, men are exhorted to read, and study, and mediate in, and discourse of, and make it their continual delight: and its a wonder that David that mentions it so oft, in Psal. 119. doth never mention the Lyturgy, or Common Prayer Book, if they had any: And that Solomon when he dedicated the house of Prayer without a Prayer Book, would onely beg of God, to hear [what Prayers, or what Supplication soever shall be made of any man, or of all the People of Is­rael, when every one shall know his own sore, and his own grief, and shall spread forth his hands in that house] 2 Chro. 6. 29. and that he giveth no hint of any Lyturgy or Form, so much as in those common Calami­ties, and talks of no other Book then the knowledge of their own sores, and their own griefs: And in the Case of Psalms, or singing unto God where it is certain, that they had a Lyturgy, or Form, (as we have,) they are carefully collected, preserved, and delivered to us, as a choice part of the holy Scripture. And would it not have been so with the Prayers, or would they have been altogether numentioned, if they also had been there prescribed to, and used by the Church, as the Psalms were? would Christ and his Apostles even where they were purposely giving Rules for Prayer, and correcting its abuse, (as Mat. 6. 1 Cor. 14, &c.) have never-mentioned any Forms but the Lords Prayer, if they had appointed such, or desired such to be im­posed, and observed? These things are incredible to us when we most impartially consider them; for our own parts as we think it uncharitable to forbid the use of Spectacles to them that have weak eyes, or of Crutches to them that have weak Limbs, and as un­charitable [Page 93] to undo all that will not use them, whether they need them or not; so we can think no better of them, that will suffer none to use such Forms, that need them, or that will suffer none to pray but in the words of other mens prescribing, though they are at least, as able as the prescribers. And to conclude, we humbly crave that ancient customs may not be used against themselves, and us, and that you will not innovate, under the shelter of the name of Antiquity. Let those things be freely used among us that were so used in the purest Primitive times. Let Unity and Peace be laid on nothing, on which they laid them not; let diversity of Lyturgy, and Ceremonies be allowed where they allowed it. May we but have Love and Peace on the Terms as the Ancient Church enjoyed them, we shall then hope we may yet escape the hands of uncharitable destroying zeal: we therefore humbly recommend to your observation the Concurrent testimony of the best Histories of the Church, concerning the diversity of Lyturgy, Ceremonies, and modal observances; in the several Churches under one and the same civil Government: and how they then took it to be their duty to forbear each other in these matters, and how they made them not the test of their Communion, or Center of their peace concerning the Observation of Easter it self, when other Holy-days, and Ceremonies were urged, were less stood upon, you have the judgement of Irenaeus, and the French Bishops in whose name he wrote in Eusob. Hist. Eccl. l. 5. 6. 23. Where they reprehend Victor for breaking peace with the Churches that differed about the day, and the antecedent time of Fasting, and tell him that the variety began, before their times, when yet they nevertheless retained Peace, and yet retain it, and the discord in their Fasting declared, or commended the concord of their Faith, that no man was rejected from Communion by Victors Predecessors on that account, but they gave them the Sacrament, and maintained Peace with them, and particularly Policarp, and Anicetus held Communion in the Eucharist, notwithstanding this difference. Basil Epist. 63. doth plead his cause with the Presbyters, and whole Clergy of Neocesarea, that were offended at his new Psalmodi [...], and his new order of Monasticks, but he onely defendeth himself, and urgeth none of them to imitate him, but telleth him also of the no­velty of their own Lyturgy, that it was not known in the time of their own late renowned Bishop Greg. Thaumaturgus, telling them that they had kept nothing unchanged to that day of all that he was used to, (so great alte [...]ations in 40. years were made in the same Congrega­tion) [Page 94] and he professeth to pardon all such things, so be it the principal things be kept safe. Socr. Hist. Ec. l. 51. c. 21. about the Easter difference, saith [that neither the Apostles, nor the Gospel, do impose a yoke of bon­dage on those that betake themselves to the Doctrine of Christ, but left the Feast of Easter, and other Festivals, to the observation of the free and equal Judgement of them that had received the benefits. And therefore be­cause men use to keep some Festivals, for the relaxing themselves from labours, several Persons in several places, do celebrate of custom, the memorial of Christs Passion Arbitrarily, or at their own choice. For neither our Saviour, nor the Apostles commanded the keeping of them by any Law, nor threaten any mulct, or penalty, &c. It was the purpose of the Apostles not to make Laws for the keeping of Festivals, but to be Authors to us of the reason of right living, and of Piety. And having shewed that it came up by private custom, and not by Law, and ha­ving cited Irenaeus, as before he addeth, [that those that agree in the same Faith, do differ in point of Rites, and Ceremonies] and instancing in divers, he concludeth [that because no man can shew in the monu­ments of writings, any command concerning this, it is plain that the Apostles herein permitted free Power to every ones mind and will; that every man might do that which was good without being induced by fear or by necessity. And having spoken of the diversity of customs, about the Assemblies, Marriage, Baptism, &c. He tells us [that even among the Novatians themselves there is a diversity in their manner of their praying, and that among all the Forms of Religions and parties, you can no where find two, that consent among themselves in the manner of their praying.] And repeating the decree of the Holy Ghost, Act. 15. [To impose no other burden but things necessary] he reprehendeth them [that neglecting this, will take fornication as a thing indifferent, but strive about Festivals, as it were a matter of life, overturning Gods Laws, and making Laws to themselves.] And Sozomen Hist. Eccl. l. c. 18. and 19. speaketh to the same purpose, and tells us that the Novatians them­selves determined in a Synod at Sangar in Bythinia, that the differenoe a­bout Easter being not a sufficient cause for breach of Communion, all should abide in the same concord, and in the same Assembly, and every one should celebrate this Feast as pleased himself: and this Canon they called [...] and c. 19. He saith of Victor, and Policarp, that [they deservedly judged it frivolous, or absurd, that those should be separated on the account of a custom, that consented in the principal heads of Religion: For you cannot find the same Traditions in all things alike, in all Churches though they agree [Page 95] among themselves] and instancing in some Countreys, where there is but one Bishop in many Cities, and in others, Bishops are ordained in the Villages. After many other instances, he adds [That they use not the same Prayers, Singings or Readings, nor observe the same time of using them.] And what Lyturgy was imposed upon Constantine the Empe­rour? or what Bishops or Synods, were then the makers of Lytur­gies, when he himself made publick Prayers for himself and Audito­ry, and for his Soldiers? Euseb. de vit. Constantini, l. 4. c. 18, 20. &c. But the diversity, liberty, and change of Lyturgies in the Chur­ches under the same Prince, are things so well known, as that we may suppose any further proof of it to be needless: In the conclusion therefore we humbly beseech you, that as Antiquity, and the Customs of the Churches in the first Ages, is that which is most commonly and confidently pleaded against us, that your mistake of Antiquity may not be to our Cost, or paid so dear for as the loss of our Freedom, for the serving of God in the work of the Ministry, to which we are called; we beseech you let us not be silenced, or cast out of the Ministry or Church, for not using the Lyturgy, Cross, Surplice, kneeling at the Sacrament, till you have either shewed the world that the pra­ctice or Canons of the Catholick Church have led you the way as doing it, or requiring it to be done. And make not that so necessary, as to force men to i [...] on such dreadful terms, which the ancient Churches used with diversity, and indifferency, and liberty. We be­seech you, shew the world some proof, that the ancient Churches did ever use to force, or require Ministers to subscribe to their Lyturgies, as having nothing in them contrary to the Word of God, or to swear obe­dience to their Bishops, before you impose [...]uch things on Us, while yet you pretend to imitate Antiquity. And have but the moderation to­wards your Brethren, as in suffering, or at death, or Judgement, you would most approve. Remember how unpleasing the remem­brance of such differences about Ceremonies, was to Bishop Ridley, as towards Bishop Hooper, when they were in Prison; and how the Arrians fury made the Orthodox gladly to go to the Churches of the Novatians, and meet with them, and joyn with them in Prayer, and had almost been united with them, in the bond of Concord, if the Novatians in a stiff maintaining of their old Customs, had not utterly refused it: But yet in other matters, they embraced each other with so singular a Be­nevolence and Love, that they would willingly have dyed for each other, (as Socrates tells us, Hist. lib. 2. cap. 30.) And may we not all here [Page 96] see our duty? When Atticus was urged to deny to the Novatians the liberty of their Meetings within the City, he refused it, because they had suffered for the Faith in the Arrians persecution, and changed nothing in the Faith, though they separated from the Church; and was so far from violence against dissenters, as that he gave large relief to them that differed from him in Religion, Socrat. Hist. lib. 7. cap. 25. It was the much praised saying of Theodosius to him, that asked him, why he put none to death that wronged him; [I would I could rather make them that are dead, alive] Socrat. l. 7. c. 22. Much more should Chri­stian Bishops be enemies to cruelty, who know that Charity is more essential to Christianity, than this or that Form of Lyturgy or Cere­monies is. If you think it unsufferable, that we should have differen­ces about such things, remember that there will be no perfect Unity, till there is perfect Charity and Sanctity; and that destroying one another, and consequently destroying Charity, is an unhappy way to Unity. And that Unity is to be held in things necessary, and liberty in things unne­cessary, and Charity in both. Remember that it was in a far greater difference, where Constantine perswadeth the Christians to mutual forbearance, by the example of the Philosophers, that suffer diffe­rence in abundance of their opinions. Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 2. cap. 67. And that Valens the Arrian was made more moderate, and abated his persecution of the Orthodox, by the Oration of Themi­stius, who bid him not [wonder at the dissentions of the Christians, for they were small, if compared unto the multitude and croud of Opinions that are among the Heathen Philosophers, as being more than 300. and that God will by this diversity of Opinions manifest hi [...] glory, and make men the more reverence him, who is so hardly known S [...]crat. Hist. [...]ib. 4. cap. 27. Those that dissent from you in these tollerable Cases, cannot c [...]ange their own Opinions; but you can, if you will, forbear hurting of your Brethren: Do that which you can do, rather than urge them by usuitable means, to that which they cannot do. These are not mat­ters sufficient to justifie Contention and uncharitable usage of your Brethren. When many of the Macedonian Faction [...]etitioned the good Emperour Jovianus, to depose those that affirmed the Son to be unlike the Father, and to put their party in their places; he gave them no answer but this, [I hate Contention, and I love and honour them that are addicted to Concord] Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 21. Then (saith Eu­seb. Hist. lib. 8. cap. 1.) did the Lord obscure the Daughter of Zion, and cast down the glory of Israel, &c. when those that seemed our Pastors [Page 97] rejecting the Rule of Godliness were inflamed among themselves with mutual Contentions, and drove on only these Contentions, Threatnings, Emulation, mu­tual Hatred and Enmity, and, like Tyrants, prosecuted their ambitions.] We thought it no impertinent digression, here to take this occasion, again to crave your exercise of the ancient Charity, and our enjoyment of the ancient Liberty, instead of a forcing the anciently-free Lyturgie and Ceremonies, and that by unproportionable penalties; and if yet we cannot prevail with you, we shall still beg for Peace of the God of Peace, where we have better hopes to be heard, and shall hold on in seeking it, how ill soever our en­deavours may be interpreted or succeed: And as the good man wept, (Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 18.) when he saw a Woman pompously adorned, be­cause He was not so careful to please God, as She was to allure men: So we shall confess we ought to weep that we cannot be more charitable and laborious in building up the Church in Holiness and Peace, than others are by unchari­table courses to afflict it: And it shall be our, hope that whether by their Labours, or their Sufferings, God will serve and honour himself, by those many faithful Servants of his, whom he hath called into his Work, and whose Cause we plead; and that however they are used, they shall not be unuseful to the ends of their Vocation: As Theodoret observeth, Hist. lib. 4. cap. 30. that in a calamitous time [the Moderator of the Universe raised up such Guides, as were sufficient in so great affluctuation, and opposed the valour of the Leaders to the greatness of the Enemies Incursion, and gave the best Reme­dies in the hardest times of Pestilence] So that the punished Pastors did from the utmost parts of the Earth corroberate their own, and refu [...] th [...] Adversaries by their Writings.] And for our selves, as we were truly desirous to do our part for to preserve your reputation with the Flocks, in order to the success of your Government for their good, and never envyed you that worldly Honour or Revenue, which yet some have thought unsuitable to the sim­plicity and employment of Christ's Ministers: So if you will neither suffer us quietly to serve God, or conscionably to serve you, we shall be the lesse solli­citous for that part of our Task from which you have power to discharge us: And as Basil said to Valens the Emperour, that would have him pray for the Life of his Son [If thou wilt receive the true Faith, and restore the Churches to Concord, thy Son shall live] which when he refused he said [The will of God then be done with thy Son] So we say to you, If you will put on Charity, and promote your Brethrens and the Churches peace; God will honour you, and good men will honour you, and your Calling will have ad­vantage by it: But if you will do contrarily, the will of the Lord be done with your Honours; but know, that them that honour Him, He will honour; and they that despise Him, shall be lightly esteemed▪ and that by the course of un­charitable [Page 98] violence, which we deprecate, you will most deeply wound the Cause of your preheminence, even more than its adversaries could have done: And, if it be the will of the Lord that suffering at home, where we have served Him, must be our Lot, we doubt not but that he will furnish us with strength and patience, and we shall remember such Ensamples as Ruffin recordeth, Hist. Lib. 2. Cap. 3. when a Millitary Bishop sent his Souldiers to assault 3000 scattered Christians, where appeared a strange kind of Warfare, when the assaulted offered their necks, saying onely, Amici, ad quid venisti? Friend, why camest thou hither? Or if we must be removed from the Land of our Nativity, as Maris told Julian, That he thanked God, that had de­prived him of his sight, that he might not see the face of such a man, Socrat. Hist. Lib. 3. Cap. 10. So we shall take it as a little abatement of our Af­fliction, that we see not the Sins and Calamities of the People, whose Peace and Welfare we so much desire. Having taken this opportunity here to conclude this part with these Requests and Warnings, we now proceed to the second Part, containing the particulars of our Exceptions, and your Answers.

Concerning Morning and Evening Prayer.

1. Rubr. Sect. 1.

VVE think it fit that the Rubrick stand as it is,Answ. and all to be left to the discretion of the Ordinary.

Repl. We thought the End and Use, more considerable than Custom; and that the Ordinary himself should be under the Rule of doing all to Edi­fication.

2. Rubr. Sect. 2.

Answ. [For the Reasons given in our Answer to the 18. General, whither you refer us, we think it fit that the Rubrick continue as it is.]

Repl. We have given you Reason enough against the Imposition of the usual Ceremonies; and would you draw forth those absolute ones to encrease the burden?

Sect. 3. Lords Prayer.

Answ. [Deliver us from evil] These words [for thine is the King­dom, &c.] are not in St. Luke, nor in the ancient Copies of St. Matthew; never mentioned in the ancient Comments, nor used in the Latine Church, and there­fore questioned whether they be part of the Gospel; there is no reason that they should be alwayes used.]

Repl. We shall not be so over-credulous as to believe you, that these [Page 99] words are not in the ancient Copies: It is enough that we believe that some few ancient Copies have them not; but that the most (even the Generality, except those few) have them: The judgment of our English Translators, and almost all other Translators of Matthew, and of the R. R. B. [...]. of Chester among your selves, putting the Copy that hath it in his Bible (as that which is most received and approved by the Church) do shew on which side is the chief Authority. If the few Copies that want it; had been thought more au­thentick and credible, the Church of England, and most other Churches, would not have preferred the Copies that have this Doxologie: And why will you in this contradict the later Judgement of the Church, expressed in the Translation allowed and imposed? The Syriack, Ethiopick, and Persian Translations also have it; and if the Syriack be as ancient as you your selves even now asserted, then the Antiquity of the Doxologie is there evident: And it is not altogether to be neglected, which by Chemnitius, and others, is conjectured, That Paul's words, 2 Tim. 4. 18. were spoken as in reference to this Doxologie; and as Pareus, and other Protestants con­clude, it is more probable the Latines neglected, than that the Greek in­serted, of their own heads, this sentence. The Socinians and Arrians have as fair a pretence for their Exception against 1 Joh. 5. 6, 7. Musculus saith, non cogitant vero similius esse, ut Graecorum Ecclesiae, majis quam La­tina, quod ab Evangelistis Graece Scriptum est, integrum servavit, nihilque de suo adjecerit, quid de Graeca Ecclesia dico? vidi ipse vetustissimum Evan­gelium secundum Matthaeum, Codicem, Chalaaeis, & Elementis, & verbis con­scriptum, in quo Coronis ista perinde atque in Graecis legebatur. Nec Chaldei solum sed & Arabes Christiani pariformiter cum Grecis orant, Et exemplar Hebraeum a docto & celebri D. Sebast. Munstero vulgatum, hanc ipsum Co­ronidem habet: Cum ergo consentiant hac in re, Hebraeorum, Chaldaeorum, Ara­bum, & Graecorum Ecclesiae, valde inconsideratum videtur, quod uni Latino­rum Ecclesiae contra omnes reliquas tautum tribuitur authoritatis, ut quod sola diversum legit, ab Evangelistis traditem esse credatur: quod vero reliquae om­nes, concorditer habem, & orant, pro a [...]dititio & peregrino habeatur. And that Luke hath it not, will no more prove that it was not a part of the Lords Prayer, than all other omissions of one Evangelist will prove, that such words are Corruptions in the other that have them. All set together give us the Gospel fully; and from all we must gather it.

Sect. 4. Lords Prayer, often used.

Answ. [It is used but twice in the Morning, and twice in the Evening Service, and twice cannot be called often, much lesse so often.] For the Letany, Communion, Baptism, &c. they are Offices distinct from Morning and Even­ing Prayer, and it is not fit that any of them should want the Lords Prayer.] [Page 98] [...] [Page 99] [...]

[Page 100] Repl. We may better say we are required to use it six times every morn­ing, than but twice: for it is twice in the Common Morning Prayer, and once in the Letany, and once in the Communion Service, and once at Baptism, (which in great Parishes is usually every day) and once to be used by the Preacher in the Pulpit: and if you call these distinct Offices, that maketh not the Lords Prayer the seldomer used: Sure we are the Apostles thought it fit, that many of their Prayers should be without the Lords Prayer.

Sect. 5. Gloria Patri.

Answ. [This Doxology being a solemn Confession of the blessed Trinity, should not be thought a burden to any Christian Lyturgy, especially being so short as it is: neither is the repetition of it, to be thought a vain repetition, more than [his mercy endureth for ever] so often repeated, Psal. 136. we cannot give God too much Glory, that being the end of our Creation, and should be the end of all our Services.]

Repl. Though we cannot give God too much Glory, we may too often repeat a form of words, wherein his Name and Glory is mentioned: There is great difference between a Psalm of Praise, and the praise in our ordinary prayers; more liberty of repetition may be taken in Psalms, and be an Ornament: And there's difference between that which is unusual (in one Psalm of 150) and that which is our daily course of Worship: When you have well proved that Christ's prohibition of battologie extendeth not to this (Matth. 6.) we shall acquiesce.

Sect. 6. Pag. 15. Rubr. 2.

Answ. [In such places where they do sing, &c.] The Rubr. directs only such singing, as is after the manner of distinct reading, and we never heard of any inconvenience thereby, and therefore conceive this demand to be needless.]

Repl. It tempteth men to think they should read in a singing tone, and to turn reading Scripture into singing, hath the inconveniences of turning the edifying simplicity and plainness of God's Service, into such affected un­natural strains and tones, as is used by the Mimical and Ludicrous; or such as feign themselves in Raptures: And the highest things (such as words and modes that signifie Raptures) are most loathsom, when forced, feigned and hypocritically affected; and therefore not fit for Congregations, that cannot be supposed to be in such Raptures. This we apply also to the sententious mode of Prayers.

Sect. 7. Benedicite.

Ans. [This Hymn was used all the Church over, Conc. Tolet. Can. 13. and therefore should be continued still, as well as Te Deum, (Ruffin. Apol. cont. Hieron.) or, Veni Creator, which they do not object against us as Apocriphal.]

Repl. You much discourage us in these great straits of time, to give us [Page 101] such loose and troublesom Citations; you turn us to Ruffin. Apol. in gross; and tell us not which of the Councils of Tollet, among at least 13. you mean. But we find the words in Council 4. but that Provincial Spanish Coun­cil, was no meet judge of the Affairs of the universal Church, unto the uni­versal Church: nor is it certain by their words, whether [quem] refer not to [Deum] rather than to [Hymnum] but if you so regard that Council, re­member that Can. 9. it is but once a day that the Lord's Prayer is injoyned, against them that used it, but on the Lord's day only; and that Can. 17. it is implyed, that it was said but once on that day. The Benedicite is somewhat more cautelously to be used, than humane Compositions, that profess to be but humane: when the Apocriphal Writings, are by the Papists pretended to be Canonical, and used so like the Canon in our Church, we have the more cause to desire, that a sufficient distinction be still made.

In the Letany.

Sect 1.

Ans. [The alterations here desired, are so nice, as if they that made them, were given to change.]

Repl. We bear the Censure; but profess, that if you will desert the pro­ducts of Changers, and stick to the unchanged Rule, delivered by the Holy Ghost, we shall joyfully agree with you. Let them that prove most given to change, from the unchangeable Rule and Example, be taken for the hinde­rers of our Unity and Peace.

Sect. 2.

Ans. [From all other deadly sin] is better than [from all other hainous sin] upon the reason here given, because the wages [...]f sin is death.]

Repl. There is so much mortal poyson in the Popish distinction of mortal and venial sin (by which abundance of sins are denied to be sins at all proper­ly, but only analogically) that the stomack that feareth it, is not to be charg­ed with niceness: The words here seem to be used by way of distinction; and [all deadly sin] seemeth not to be spoken of [all sin;] and if so, your reason from Rom. 6. 23. is vain, and ours firm.

Sect. 3.

Ans. [From sudden death] as good as from [dying suddenly] which there­fore we pray against, that we may not be unprepared.]

Repl. We added [unprepared] as expository, or hinting, to shew the reason why sudden death is prayed against; and so to hint our Prayers to that sud­den death, which we are unprepared for; there being some wayes of sud­den death, no more to be prayed against than death it self, simply considered may. When you say [from sudden death] is as good as from [dying suddenly] [Page 102] we confess it is, but not so good as from dying suddenly and unpreparedly.] We hope you intend not to make any believe, that our turning the Adje­ctive into an Adverb, was our Reformation? And yet we wondered to hear this made a common jest upon us, as from those that had seen our Prayers. Would you have had us said [from sudden and unprepared death?] you would then have had more matter of just exception against the words [unprepa­red death] than now you have against [dying suddenly:] A man may be well prepared to dye suddenly, by Martyrdom for Christ, or by War for his Prince, and many other wayes.

Sect. 4.

Ans. [All that travel] as little liable to exception as [those that travel] and more agreable to the phrase of Scripture, 1 Tim. 1. 2. I will that Prayers be made for all men.]

Repl. All universal is to be understood properly, as comprehending all the individuals, and so it is not an indefinite: And we know not that we are bound to pray for Thieves, and Pirates, and Traitors, that travel by Land or Water, on such Errands as Faux, or the other powder Plotters, or the Spanish Armado, in 88. or as Parry, or any that should travel on the Errand as Clement or Raviliack did to the two King Heneries of France: Are these niceties with you.

Sect. 5. P. 16.

Ans. [The second Collect. &c.] We do not find, nor do they say, what is to be amended in these Collects; therefore to say any thing particularly, were to answer to we know not what.]

Repl. We are glad that one word in the proper Collects hath appeared such to you, as needs a Reformation; especially when you told us before, [That the Lyturgy was never found fault with, by those to whom the name of Protestants most properly belongs.] which lookt upon our hop [...]s of reformation, almost as destructively as the Papists Doctrine of infallibility doth, when we deal with them. As for the Collects mentioned by us, you should not wonder that we brought not in a particular Charge against them: For first, we had a conceit that it was best for us to deal as gently and tenderly as we could, with the faults of the Lyturgy: And therefore we have under our Generals hid abundance of particulars, which you may find in the Abridge­ment of the Lincolnshire Ministers, and in many other Books. And secondly, we had a conceit, that you would have vouchsafed to have treated with us personally in persence, according to the sense of his Majesties Commis­sion, and then we thought to have told you particularly of such matters; but you have forced us to confess that we find our selves deceived.

Communion Service.

Sect. 1. P. 17. Kyries.

Ans. [To say [Lord have mercy upon us] after every Commandement, is more quick and active, than to say it once at the close; and why Christian People should not upon their knees ask their pardon for their Life, forfeited by the breach of each Commandement, and pray for Grace to keep them for the time to come; they must be more than ignorant that can scruple.]

Repl. We thank you for saying nothing against our four first Requests. Though we be thought more than ignorant for our scruple, we can truly say, we are willing to learn; but your bare opinion is not enough to cure igno­rance and more. By your reason, you may make kneeling the gesture for hear­ing the Scriptures read, and hearing Sermons and all: If you will but inter­weave Prayers, he must be more than ignorant that will not kneel. The universal Church of Christ was more than ignorant, for many hundred years, that not only neglected, but prohibited Genuflexion in all adoration each Lords day: when now the 20. of Exod. or 5. Deut. may not be heard or read, without kneeling (save only by the Clergy.)

Sect. 2. P. 18. Homilies.

Ans. [Some Livings are so small, that they are not able to maintain a Li­censed Preacher, and in such and the like Cases, this provision is necessary; nor can any reason be given, why the Ministers reading a [Homily] set forth by common Authority, should not be accounted Preaching of the Word, as well as his reading or pronouncing by heart, a Homily or Sermon of his own, or any o­ther mans?]

Repl. 1. When the Usurpers would quickly have brought Livings to that competency, as would have maintained able Preachers, we may not que­stion whether just Authority will do it. 2. When abundance of able Mini­sters cast out, would be glad of liberty to Preach for nothing, this pretence hath no taste or sense in it. 3. When we may not without the imputation of uncharitableness, once imagine that your Lordships, with your Deans, and other Officers, do not value the saving of Souls above Money, we may conclude, that you will voluntarily allow so much out of your ample Reve­nues, as will supply such places, or many of them: the rather, because we find you charging them, as [inordinately desiring the Honour and Wealth of the World] that would have had all Ministers to have had 100 l. or 80 l. per an­num a piece; and therefore may conclude, that you will take no more, if you hate that sin, more than they do, that are accused of it: But the next part of your An [...]wer firghteth us more; to which we say, That we will not dif­fer with you for the name, whether reading Homilies, may be called Preach­ing; [Page 104] but we take the boldness to say, that it is another manner of Preaching that Christ and his Apostles sent men to perform; and which the Church hath gloried in, and been edified by to this day; and which thousands of Souls have been brought to Heaven by; and which we again desire may be enjoyned, and not left so indifferent.

Sect. 3. Sentences.

Ans. [The Sentences tend all to exhort the People to pious liberality, whether the Object be the Minister, or the Poor; and though some of the Sentences be Apocriphal, they may be useful for that purpose.] Why Collection for the Poor should be made at another time, there is no reason given, only change desired.]

Repl. We have oft told you, why the Apocripha should be cautelously used in the Church; that Usurper that should pretend to the Crown, and have a more numerous party than the King (that hath the undoubted Right) will be lookt on more suspitiously than ordinary Subjects. 2. It is a sordid thing for Ministers to love Money, and it's sordid, unless in extraordinary necessi­ties, to have them beg, and beg for themselves, and beg under a pretence of serving God; even in times when the Clergy seems advanced. 3. We con­fest our selves deceived, in thinking we should have free personal debates with you, which made us reserve many of our Reasons. Our Reasons are, 1. For less disturbance. 2. Because the Peoples affections are much more raised usually, and so fitter for returns, when they have received. 3. Espe­cially, because it is most seasonable to do the Acts of Gratitude, when we had received the obliging benefits, and so say, [What shall I give the Lord for all his Benefits?] when we have partaked of them; and to offer our selves first, and with our selves, what he giveth us, unto him, when we have received him, and his Graces offered to us. These are the Reasons that brought us under your Censure of desiring a Change.

Sect. 4. P. 19. 3. Exhortation.

A [...]sw. [The 1. and 3. Exhortations, are very seasonable before the Com­munion, to put men in mind how they ought to be prepared, and in what danger they are to come unprepared: that if they be not duely qualified, they may depart, and be better prepared at another time.]

Repl. But is it not more seasonable that in so great business such warn­ing go a considerable time before? Is there then leisure of self-examina­tion, and making restitution and satisfaction, and going to the Minister for Counsel to quiet his Conscience, &c. in Order to the present Sacra­ment? We yet desire these things way be sooner told them.

Sect. 5. Exc. 1.

Answ. [We fear this may discourage many, certainly themselves cannot desire that men should come to the holy Communion with a troubled Conscience, and [Page 105] therefore have no reason to blame the Church, for saying [it is requisite that men come with a quiet Conscience, and prescribing means for quieting thereof] if this be to discourage men, it is fit they should be discouraged and deterred, and kept from the Communion till they have done all that is here directed by the Church, which they may well do considering, that this Exhortation shall be read in the Church, the Sunday or Holy-day before.]

Rep. But we can and do desire, that many that have a troubled Conscience, and cannot otherwise quiet it, should come to the Communion for remedy, and not be discouraged or kept away.

Sect. 6. Ministers Turning.

Answ. [The Ministers turning to the People is not most convenient, through­out the whole Ministration, when he speaks to them: as in Lessons, Absolution, and Benedictions, it is convenient that he turn to them, when he speaks for them to God, it is fit that they should all turn another way as the ancient Church ever did; the reasons of which you may see, Aug. lib. 2. De Ser. Dom. in monte.

Repl. It is not yet understood by us, why the Ministers or People (for which you meant by [they all] we know not) should turn another way in Prayer; for we think the People should hear the Prayers of the Ministers: if not, Latin Prayers may serve, and then you need not except against extemporary Prayers, because the People cannot own them, for how can most of them own what they hear not, whatever it be. As for Augustins reason for looking toward the East when we Pray, [ut ad moneatur animus ad naturam excellentiorem se convertere, id est ad Dominum, cum ipsum corpus e [...]us quod est terrenum ad corpus excellentius, id est ad corpus caeleste convert [...]ur:] we sup­pose you will not expect that we should be much moved by it. If we should, why should we not worship towards any of the Creatures visible when we can pretend such reasons for it, as minding us of Superior things? and why should we not look Southward when the Sun is in the South? And we fear the worshipping toward the Sun, as representing, or minding us of Christs Heavenly Body, is too like to the prohibited worshipping before an Image, and too like to that worshipping before the Host of Heaven, in which the old Idolatry consisted, or at least which was the Introduction of it; of which our Protestant writers Treate at large against the Papists, on the point of Image worship; See also Vessius de Idolat. lib. 2. cap. 2, 3. &c.

Sect. 7. Exc. 3.

Ans. [It appears by the greatest evidences of Antiquity, that it was upon the 25. day of Decemb. S. Aug. Psal. 132.]

Repl. It is not August. alone in Psal. 132. that must tell us which way [the greatest evidences of Antiquity] go: And his reasoning that John must [Page 106] decrease, and Christ must increase, as proved by Johns being born, when the dayes decrease, and Christs being born when the dayes increase, doth not much in­vite us to receive his testimony. We conceive the ancient opinion of Jerusalem, and other Eastern Churches, that were nearest to the place, is a greater Argument for the contrary, then you have here given us for what you thus affirm: we might set Epiphan. against Aug [...]st. and call the Greek Churches, till the midst of Chrysostoms time, when they changed their opinion, and in our time the Judgement of the Famous Chrono­logers, Scaliger, Berraldus, Broughton, Calvisius, Cappellus, Clopenburgius, with many others, are not contemptible, as set against such an unproved Assertion as this.

Sect. 8.

Ans. [That our sinful bodies, &c.] It can no more be said, those words do give greater efficacy to the Blood then to the Body of Christ, then when our Lord saith, [This is my Blood which is shed for you, and for many for the remission of sins, &c.] and saith not so explicitly of the Body.

Repl. Sure Christ their intimateth no such distinction, as is here inti­mated: There his Body is said to [be broken for us] and not onely [for our bodies.]

Sect. 9. To every Communicant kneeling.

Ans. [It is most requisite that the Minister deliver the bread and wine into every particular Communicants hand, and ropeat the words in the singular num­ber; for so much as it is the propriety of Sacraments, to make particular ob­ [...]ignation to each Believer, and it is our visible Profession, that by the Grace of God, Christ tasted death for everyman.]

Reply 1. Did not Christ know the propriety of Sacraments better than we? and yet he delivered it in the plural number to all at once, with a [Take ye, eat ye, drink ye all of it] VVe had rather study to be obedient to our Master, than to be wiser than He. 2. As God maketh the general offer, which giveth to no man a personal in [...]erest, till his own acceptance first appropriate it; So it is fit that the Minister, that is God's Agent, imitate Him, when his Example, and the Reason of it, so concur to engage us to it; Clemens, Alexandr. Stromat. lib. 1. Prope. giveth a Reason (as we understand him) for the contrary, That Man being a free Agent, must be the Chooser, or Refuser, for himself: [...]. Quemadmodum Eu­charistiam cum quidem, ut mos est, diviserint, permittunt unicuique ex populo ejus partim sumere: and after rendreth this reason, [...]: ad accurate enim perfecteque eligendum ac fugi­endum optima est Conscientia.

[Page 107] And the thing is so agreeable to your own doctrinal Principles, that we fear you disrelish it because it comes from us.

Sect. 10. Kneeling, &c.

Answ. [Concerning Kneeling at the Sacrament we have given account al­ready; only thus much we add, That we conceive it an Error to say, that the Scripture affirms the Apostles to have received not kneeling: The posture at the Paschal Supper we know, but the Institution of the holy Sacrament was after Supper, and what Posture was then used, the Scripture is silent. The Rubrick at the end of the 1. Edw. c. 6. that leaves kneeling, crossing, &c. indifferent, is meant only at such times as they are not prescribed and required: But at the Eucharist kneeling is expresly required in the Rubrick following.]

Repl. Doubtless when Matthew and Mark say it was [as they did eat] to which before it is said [That they sate down] and when Interpreters ge­nerally agree upon it, this would easily have satisfied you, if you had been as willing to believe it, as to believe the contrary: Matth. 26, 20, 21, 26. the same phrase is used, v. 26. [...], as in v. 21. where it sheweth they were still sitting. For the sense of the Rubrick, if you prove that the Makers so interpret it, we shall not deny it; but the Reason of both seems the same.

Sect. 11. Communion three times a year.

Answ. [This desire to have the Parishioners at liberty, whether they will ever receive the Communion or not, savours of too much neglect, and coldness of affection towards the holy Sacrament: it is more sitting that order should be taken to bring it into more frequent use, as it was in the first and best times: Our Rubr. is directly according to the ancient Counc. of Eliberis, cap. 81. Grat. de Con­secrat. no man is to be accounted a good Catholick Christian that does not receive three times in the year: The distempers which indispose men to it, must be cor­rected, and not the receiving of the Sacrament therefore omitted: It is a pitti­ful pretence to say they are not fit, and make their sin their excuse: formerly our Church was quarrelled at for not compelling men to the Communion; now for urging men: How shall she please?] Hooker, l. 5. s. 8.

Repl. We con [...]ess it is desirable that all our distempers and unfitnesse should be healed; and we desire with you that Sacraments may be oftner; but that every person in the Parish that is [...]fit, be forced to receive, is that which we cannot concur with you to be guilty of: Two sorts we think un­fit to be so forced (at least:) First, abundance of people grosly ignorant and scandalous, that will eat and drink Judgment to themselves, not dis­cerning the Lord's Body: Secondly, many mela [...] holy and otherwise trou­bled doubting souls; that if they should receive the Sacrament before they find themselves more fit, would be in danger to go out of their wits with [Page 108] fear, left it would seal them to destruction, and, as the Lyturgy saith, left the Devil enter into them, as into Judas; or at least it would grievously de­ject them: As formerly, so now, there is great reason [...] that the unprepared be not forced to the Sacrament: and ye [...] [...] to great a part of the Body of the Church may not be let alon [...] in your Communion, without due admonition and discipline, that ordinarily neglect or refuse the Churches Communion in this Sacrament; Those that are so prophane should be kept away; but withall they should be proceeded with by discipline, till they repent, or are cast out of the Church.

Sect. 12.

Answ. [This Rubrick is not in the Lyturgy of Queen Elizabeth, nor con­firmed by Law; nor is there any great need of restoring it, the world being now in more danger of Prophanation than of Idolatry; besides the sense of it is sufficiently declared in the 28 Article of the Church of England. The time appointed we conceive sufficient.]

Repl. Can there be any hurt or danger in the peoples being taught, to understand the Church aright? Hath not Bishop Hall told you in his Life, of a Romanist beyond Sea that would have forced him down, that the Church of England is for Transubstantiation, because of our Kneeling, pag. 20. And the same Bishop, greatly differing from you, saith in the same Book, pag. 294. [But to put all scruples out of the mind of any Reader concerning this Point, let that serve for the upshot of all, which is expresly set down in the fifth Rubr. in the end of the Communion, set forth as the Judgment of the Church of England, both in King Edward and Queen Elizabeth's time (note that) though lately upon negligence, (note, upon negligence) omitted in the Im­pression.] and so recites the words. Where you say, [There is no great need, &c.] We reply: 1. Prophaness may be opposed nevertheless for our instructing the People against Idolatry. 2. The abounding of Papists, who in this point seem to us Idolatrous, sheweth that there is danger of it. 3. The commonness of Idolatry throughout the world, and the case of the Israelites of old, shew that mans nature is prone to it. 4. Prophaness and Idolatry befriend each other. As God is jealous against Idolatry, so should all faithful Pastors of the Church be; and not refuse to give such a Caution to the People, and say, There is no great need of it.

Publick Baptism.

Sect. 1. Ex.

Ans. [Until they have made due profession of Repentance, &c.] We think this desire to be very hard and uncharitable, punishing the poor Infants for the Parents sakes, and giving also too great and arbitrary a Power to the Minister [Page 109] to judge which of his Parishioners he pleaseth, Atheists, Infidels, Hereticks, &c. and then in that name to reject their Children from being baptized. Our Church concludes more Charitably, that Christ will favourably accept every Infant to Baptism, that is presented by the Church, according to our present or­der; and this she concludes out of holy Scripture (as you may see in the Office of Baptism) according to the Practice and Doctrin of the Catholick Church, Cyp. Ep. 59. August. cap. 28. & de verb. Apost. Ser. 14.

Repl. We perceive you will stick with us in more then Ceremonies. To your Reasons we reply, 1. By that Reason, all the Children of all Hea­thens, or Infidels in the world, should be admitted to Baptism, because they, should not be punished for the Parents sakes. 2. But we deny that it is (among Christians that believe Original Sin) any absurdity, to say that Children are punished for their Parents sakes. 3. But yet we deny this to be any such punishment at all, unless you will call their non-deliverance a punishment. They are the Children of Wrath by nature, and have Original sin. The Covenant of Grace, that giveth the saving Benefits of Christ, is made to none but the faithful and their Seed. Will you call this a pu­nishing them for their Fathers sakes, that God hath extended his Covenant to no more? Their Parents infidelity doth but leave them in their Origi­nal sin and misery, and is not further it self imputed to them; If you know of any Covenant or Promise of Salvation, made to all without Condition, or to Infants on any other Condition or qualification, but that they be the Seed of the faithful dedicated to God, you should do well to shew it us, and not so slightly pass over things of so great moment, in which you might much help the world out of darkness, if you can make good what you intimate: If indeed you mean as you seem to speak, that its uncharitableness to pu­nish any Infants for the Parents faults, and that a non-liberation is such a pu­nishme [...]t, then you must suppose, that all the Infants of Heathens, Jews, and Turks are saved (that dye in Infancy) or else Christ is uncharitable: And if they are all saved without Baptism, then baptizing is of no use or necessi­ty, as you seem to think. What then is the priviledge of the Seed of the Faithful, that they are Holy, and that the Covenant is made with them, and God will be their God? We fear you will again revive the opinion of the Anabaptists, among the People, when they observe that you have no more to say for the baptizing of the Children of the Faith­ful, than of Infidels, Heathens and Athiests. To your second Objection, we Answer: You will drive many a faithful Labourer from the work of Christ, if he may not be in the Ministry, unless he will baptize the Chil­dren of Infidels, Heathens, and Excommunicate ones, before their Pa­rents do repent. And the first question is not, who shall be judge? but whe­ther [Page 110] we must be all thus forced? Is not the question as great, who shall be judge of the unfitness of persons for the Lord's Supper? and yet there you think it not a taking too much upon us, to keep away the scandalous, if they have their Appeals to you? And is it indeed (a power too great and ar­bitrary) to have a judicium discretionis about our own Acts? and not to be forced to baptize the Children of Heathens against our Consciences? who judged for the Baptizers in the primitive Church, what persons they should baptize? We act but as Engines under you, and not as men, if we must not use our reason; and we are more miserable than brutes or men, if we must be forced to go against our Consciences, unless you will save us harm­less before God: O that in a fair debate you would prove to us, that such Children as are described are to be baptized, and that the Ministers that baptize them, must not have power to discern who to baptize. But who mean you by the Churches that must present every Infant that Christ may accept them? Is every Infant first in the Promise of pardon? (If so, shew us that Promise) and then sure God will make good that Promise, though Heathen Parents present not their Children to him, as (your grounds suppose) if not, then will the sign save those that are not in the Promise: But is it the God-fathers that are the Church, whoever called them so? And if by the Church you mean the Minister, and by presenting, you meant baptizing them, then any Heathens Child that a Minister can catch up and baptize, shall be saved; which if it could be proved, would perswade us to go hunt for Children in Turkie, Tartary, or America, and secretly bap­tize them in a habit that should not make us known; but there is more of fancy than charity in this; and Christ never invited any to him, but the Children of the Promise, to be thus presented and baptized.

Sect. 2.

[The time appointed we conceive sufficient.]

Repl. We conjecture the words that conclude your former Subject be­ing misplaced, are intended as your Answer to this; and if all the Chil­dren of any sort in the world, that are brought to us, must by us be bapti­zed without distinction, indeed it is no great matter what time we have notice of it.

Sect. 3. P. 23.

Ans. [And then the God-fathers, &c.] It is an erronious doctrine, and the ground of many others, and of many of your Exc [...]ptions, that Children have no other right to Baptism, than in [...]heir Parents right; the Churches primitive pra­ctice forbids it to be left to the pleasure of the Parents, whether there shall be o­ther Sureties or no? (St. Aug. Ep. 23.) It is fit we should observe carefully the practice of venerable Antiquity, as they desire, Prop. 18.]

[Page 111] Repl. It seems we differ in Doctrine, though we subscribe the same Ar­ticles; we earnestly desire you distinctly to tell us, what is the Infants title to Baptism, if it be not to be found in the Parent? Assign it, and prove it when you have done, as well as we prove their right, as they are (the Seed of Believers, dedicated to them by God) and then we promise to consent. It's strange to us to hear so much of the Churches primitive pra­ctice, where so little evidence of it is produced, Aug. Ep. 23. talketh not (of primitive practice) ab initio non fuit sic; was it so in the Apostles dayes? And afterwards you prove not that it was the judgement of the Catholick Church, that bare Sponsers instead of Parents, Pro-parents or Owners of the Children, might procure to the Children of all Infidels, a title to Baptism and its benefits. Such Suscepters as became the Owners or Adopters of the Children, are to be distinguished from those that proforma, stand by for an hour, during the baptizing of Children, and ever af­ter, leave them to their Parents: who as they have the natural interest in them, and power of their disposal, and the Education of them, so are fittest to covenant in their names.

Sect. 4.

Ans. [The Font usually stands as it did in primitive times, at or near the Church door, to signifie that Baptism was the entrance into the Church mystical; We are all bap [...]ized into one Body, 1 Cor. 12. 13. and the People may hear well enough. If Jordan and all other waters, be not so far sanctified by Christ, as to be the matter of Baptism, what Authority have we to baptize? and sure his Baptism was dedicatio Baptismi.]

Repl. Our lesser difference about the Font, and the flood Jordan, is almost drowned in the greater before going: But to the first we say, that we con­ceive the usual scituation for the Peoples hearing, is to be preferred before your Ceremonious position of it. And to the second we say, that dedica­tio Baptismi is an unfiting phrase, and yet if it were not, what's that to the sanctification of Jordan, and all other waters? Did Christ sanctifie all Corn, or Bread, or Grapes, or Wine to an holy use, when he administred the Lords Supper? Sanctifying is separating to an holy use; but the flood Jor­dan, and all other water, is not separted to this holy use, in any proper sense; no more than all mankind is sanctified to the Priestly Office, be­cause men were made Priests.

Sect. 5. Sureties, &c. P. 24.

Ans. [It hath been accounted reasonable, and allowed by the best Laws, that Guardians should Covenant and contract for their Minors to their benefit; by the same right the Church hath appointed Sureties to undertake for Children, when they enter into Covenant with God by Baptism, (St. Aug. Ep. 23.) And this [Page 112] general practice of the Church is enough to satisfie those that doubt.]

Rep. 1. Who made those Sureties Guardians of the Infants that are neither Parents, nor Pro-parents, not Owners of them? we are not now speaking against Sponsors: But you know that the very Original of those Sponsors is a great Controversie: And whether they were not at first most properly Sponsors for the Parents, that they should perform that part they undertook (because many Parents were Deserrors, and many proved neg­ligent) Sponsors then excluded not Parents from their proper undertaking, but joyned with them; Godfathers are not the Infants Guardians with us, and therefore have not power thus to Covenant and Vow in their names: We intreat you to take heed of leaving any Children indeed out of the mutual Covenant that are baptised: How are those in the Cove­nant that cannot consent themselves, and do it not by any that truly represent them, nor have any Authority to act as in their names? The Authority of Parents being most unquestionable (who by nature, and the Word of God, have the power of disposing of their Children; and consequently of choosing and covenanting for them) Why should it not be preferred? at least, you may give leave to those Parents that desire it, to be the Dedicators of, and Covenanters for their own Children, and not force others on them whether they will or no. 2. But the question is not of Covenanting, but professing present Actual believing, forsaking, &c. In which though we believe the Churches sense was sound, yet we desire that all things, that may render it lyable to mis­understanding, may be avoyded,

Sect. 6. Page 24.

[Receive remission of sins by spiritual Regeneration, most proper for Baptism is our spiritual Regeneration, St. John 3. unless a man be born again of water and the spirit, &c. And by this is received remission of Sins, Acts 2. 3. Re­pent and be Baptized every one of you, for the remission of sins; So the Creed; one Baptism for the remission of sins.]

Repl. Baptism as an outward Administration, is our visible Sacra­mental Regeneration: Baptism as containing with the Sign, the thing signified, is our spiritual real Regeneration. As we are Regenerated before Baptism, (as you know adult Believers are) so we cannot pray to receive remission of sins by that same Regeneration renewed. As we are regenerated really in Baptism, that Regeneration and Remission are conjunct benefits: But if Baptism at once give Regeneration and Remission, it follows not that it gives Remission by Regeneration: But as Regeneration comprehendeth the whole change (real or Physical, and [...]) so we acknowledge, that as the part is given by the whole, [Page 115] you may say that remission is given by regeneration, but more s [...]ly in it than by it; but we are not willing to make more ado about words than needs.

[We cannot in faith say, that every Child that is baptized, is regenerate, &c. seeing that God's Sacraments have their effects,Ex [...]. Sect. [...]. Page 24. Answ. where the Receiver doth not ponere obicem, put any bar against them (which Children cannot do) we may say in faith of every Child that is baptized, that it is regenerated by Gods Holy Spirit, and the denial of it tends to Anabaptism, and the contempt of this holy Sacrament, as nothing worthy, nor material, whether it be admini­s [...]red to children or no: Concerning the Cross, we refer to our Answer to the same in general.]

Rep. All God's Sacraments attain their proper end: But whether the Infants of Infidels be the due subjects, and whether their end be to seal up Grace and Salvation to them that have no promise of it,Ti [...] 3. 5. or whe­ther it be onely to seal the Covenant to Believers and their seed, are Questions yet undecided [...], wherein we must entreat you not to ex­pect that we should implicitely believe you; and it is as easie for us to tell you, that you are promoting Anabaptism, and much more easie to prove it: We take those but for words of course.

PRIVATE BAPTISM.

[We desire that Baptism may not be administred in a private piace) and so do we,Ex [...]. &c. Sect. 8. Answ. where it may be brought into the publick Congregation. But since our Lord hath said, St. John 3. Unless one be born of Water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. We think it fit that they should be Baptized in private, rather then not at all. It is appointed now to be done by the lawful Minister.

Repl. We must needs suppose you are disputing with Protestants, who ordinarily shew the Papists that that Text, Joh. 3. asserteth no ab­solute necessity of Baptism to salvation. But we believe as wel as you, that it is the regular way of solemn Initiation into the Covenant and Church of Christ, which none that indeed are the Children of the Pro­mise should neglect. As Coronation solemnizeth his entrance upon the Kingdom, that had before the title; and as Marriage solemnizeth that which before was done by consent; so Baptism solemnizeth the mutual Covenant which before had a mutual consent: And none is authori­zed to consent for Infants, but those that by nature, and God's Law, have the power of disposing of them, and whose will is, in sens [...] forensi the Children [...] will: It solemnly investeth us in what we had an Antece­dent right to, and therefore belongs to none but those that have that right: And this we are ready to make good by any fair debate that you will allow us.

[Page 116] Nor is any thing done in private,Sect▪ 9. reiterated in publick, but the solemn reception into the Congregation, with the Prayers for him, and the publick de­claration before the Congregation, of the Infants, now made by the Godfathers, that the whole Congregation may testifie against him if he does not perform it, which the Ancients made great use of.

Rep. Do you not say in the Rub. (And let them not doubt but the Child so baptized, is lawfully and sufficiently baptized, and ought not to be baptized again. And after (I certifie you, that in this case all is well done, &c.) And yet you do not renew all the Baptismal Covenant, renouncing the flesh &c. And engaging into the Christian belief: And that you may see that the Church of England taketh not all Infants infallibly to be regenera­ted by Baptism (unless you grant that they repent to the substance of Baptism; the baptismal Prayer is here used for the fore-baptized, that God will give his holy Spirit to this Infant, that he being born again, and made heir of everlasting salvation, &c.) which sheweth that he is now supposed to be Regenerandus, non regeneratus. Do they pray for his Regeneration, whom they account regenerate already? You must ei­ther confess that there they repeat much of the substance of Baptism, and take the Child as not baptized, or else, that they take the baptized Child to be not regenerate. And then we may well take them for un­regenerate, that shew no signs of it, at years of discretion, but live a carnal and ungodly life, though they can say the Cat [...]chim, and seek Confirmation.

Of the CATECHISM.

[Though divers have of late been baptized without Godfathers,§ 31 p. 56. An. 3. yet many have been baptized with them, and those may answer the Question, as they are, the rest must answer according to truth: But there's no reason to alter the rule of the Catechism for some mens irregularities.

Rep. If you will have a Catechism proper to those that had Godfa­thers, give leave to others to use one that will teach them (as you say) to answer according to truth: And let us in the same have that liber­ty of leaving out the doubtful opinion of Godfathers and Godmothers, and that which we think too childish a beginning, What is your Name? and let us use one that speaks more of the necessary Doctrines of Sal­vation, and nothing but necessaries.

[We conceive this expression as safe as that which they desire, and more ful­ly exrressing the efficacy of the Sacrament,§ 22▪ p. 2. according to St. Paul, the 26. and 27. Gal. 3. where St. Paul proves them all to be Children of God, because they were baptized, and in their Baptism had put on Christ; If children, then heirs, or which is all one, Inheritors, Rom. 8. 17.

Rep. By Baptism Paul means not the carkase of Baptism, but the bap­tismal dedication and covenanting with God: They that do this by themselves, if at age, or by Parents or Pro-parents authorized (if In­fants) [Page 117] sincerely, are truly members of Christ, and children of God, and Heirs of Heaven: They that do this but hypocritically and verbal­ly, as Simon Magus did, are visibly such as the others ate really; But really are still in the gall of bitterness, and bond of iniquity, and have no part or lot in this business, their hearts being not right in the sight of God. This is that truth which we are ready to make good.

[We conceive the present Translation to be agreeable to many ancient Co­pies, § 3 p▪ 26. 10 Com.therefore the change to be needless▪]

Rep. What ancient copy hath (the seventh day) in the end of the 4th. Commandment, instead of the Sabbath-day? Did King James cause the Bible to be new translated to so little purpose: We must bear you witness, that in some cases you are not given to change.

[My duty towards God, &c.] It is not true that there is nothing in that Answer which refers to the 4th. Commandment,Excep. § 4. for the last words of the answer do orderly relate to the last Commandment of the first Table, which is the fourth.

Rep. And think you indeed, that the fourth commandment obligeth you no more to one day in seven, than equally (to all the dayes of your life) this Exposition may make us think that some are more serious then else we could have imagined, in praying after that command­ment, Lord have mercy upon us, and encline our hearts to keep this Law.

[Two onely as generally necessary to salvation, Excep. § 5. &c.) These words are a Reason of the Answer that there are two only, & therefore not to be left out.

Rep. The words seem to imply by distinction, that there may be others not so necessary, and the Lords Supper was not by the Ancients taken to be necessary to the salvation of all.

[We desire that the entring of Infants, &c.] The effect of childrens Baptism depends neither upon their own present actual Faith and Repentance, which the Catechism saith expresly they cannot perform; nor upon the Faith and Repentance of their natural Parents, or Pro-parents, or of their Godfa­thers or Godmothers, but upon the Ordinance & Institution of Christ; but it is requisite that when they come to age they should perform these conditions of faith and repentance, for which also their Godfathers & Godmothers charitably un­dertook on their behalf. And what they do for the Infant in this case, the Infant himself is truly said to do, as in the Courts of this Kingdom daily the Infant does answer by his Guardian; and it is usual to do homage by proxy, and for Princes to marry by proxy; for the further justification of this answer, see St. Aug. Ep. [...]1. ad Bonif. Nihil aliud credere quam fidem habere ac per hoc cum re­spondetur parvulum credere qui fidei nondum habet effectum, respon­detur fidem habere propter fidei Sacramentum & convertere se ad De­um, propter Conversionis Sacramentum quia & ipsa responsio, ad cele­brationem pertinet Sacramenti itaque parvulum, & si nondum fides illa, que in credentium voluntate consister, tamen ipsius fidei Sacramentum

[Page 118] Repl. 1. You remove not at all the inconvenience of the words that seemeth to import what you your selves disclaim. 2. We know that the effects of Baptism, do depend on all the necess [...]ry con-causes on Gods mercy, or Christ's merits, on the Institution, and on Baptism it self ac­cording to its use, as a delivering investing Sign and Seal, and they de­pend upon the promise sealed by Baptism, and the promise supposeth the qualified sub [...]ect, or requisite Condition in him that shall have the benefit of it; to tell us therefore of a common Cause on which the ef­ [...]ect depends, v [...]z. the Institution or Baptism it self, when we are in­quiring after the special condition that proveth the person to be the due subject, to whom both promise and Baptism doth belong: This is but to seem to make an Answer; Either all baptized absolutely are [...]usti­fied and saved, or not: If yea, then Christianity is another kind of thing than Peter or Paul understood, that thought it was not the washing of water, but the answer of a good Conscience to God: Then let us catch Heathens, and dip them, and save them in dispite of them: But if any condition be requisite (as we are sure there is) our question is, what it is, and you tell us of Baptism it self; did ever Augu [...]t. jure vel [...], was to be esteemed a believer; we grant with Austin, that Infants of believers, propter Sacramentum fid [...]i, are visibly and professedly to be numbred with believers; but neither Austin nor we wil ever grant you that this is true, of all that you can catch; and use this form of Bapt [...]sm ever, the seal wil no [...] save them that have no part in the promise.

[The Catechism is not intended as a whole body of Divinity,Sect. 7. Page 28. but as a Com­prehension of the Articles of Faith, and other Doctrines most necessary to sal­vation; and being short, is fittest for Children and common people; and as it was thought sufficient upon mature deliberation, and so is by us▪]

Rep. The Creed, the Decalogue, and the Lords Prayer, contain all that is absolutely necessary to salvation at least: If you intended no more, what need you make a Catechism? If you intend more, why have you no more. But except in the very words of the Creed, the essentials of Christianity are left out; if no explication be necessary, trouble them with no more then the Text of the Creed, &c. If explication be neces­sary, let them have it; at least in a larger Catechism, fitter for the riper.

CONFIRMATION.

[It is evident that the meaning of these words is,Sect. 1. Rub. 1. that Children baptized, & dying before they commit actual sin, are undoubtedly saved, though they be not confirmed; wherein we see not what danger there can be of mis­leading the vulgar, by teaching them truth; but there may be danger in this desire of having these words wronged, as if they were false; for St. Austin says he is an Infidel that defies them to be true, Ep. 23. ad Bonif.

Rep. What, all Children saved, whether they be Children of the Promise or no? Or can you shew us a Text that saith (Whoever is [Page 119] baptized, shall be saved,) the Common-Prayer-Book plainly speaks of the non-necessity of Unction, Confirmation, and other Popish Cere­monies and Sacraments, and meaneth that ex parte Ecclesiae, they have all things necessary to salvation, and are undoubtedly saved, supposing them the due subjects, and that nothing be wanting ex parte sui, which certainly is not the case of such as are not Children of the Pro­mise, and Covenant; the Child of an Heathen doth not ponere obicem, actually, quo minus baptizetur, and yet being baptized, is not saved on your own reckoning, (as we understand you) therefore the Parent can penere obicem, and either hinder the Baptism or effect, to his Infant; Austin speaks not there of all Children whatever, but those that are offered per aliorum spiritualem voluntatem, by the Parents usually, or by those that own them after the Parents be dead, or they exposed, or become theirs: He speaks also of what may be done, & de eo qui fieri non posse arbitratur: But our question is, what is done, and not what God can do: Our great question is, what Children they be that Bap­tism belongeth to?

[After the Catechism we conceive that it is not a sufficient qualification,Sect. 2. Rub. &c. [...] we conceive that this qualification is required rather as necessary, then as sufficient, and therefore it is the duty of the Minister of the place, Can. 61. to prepare Children in the best manner to be presented to the Bishop for confirmation, and to inform the Bishop of their fitness, but submitting the judgement to the Bishop both of this, and other qualifications, and not that the Bishop should be tyed to the Ministers consent; compare this Rubrick to the se [...]ond Rubrick before the Catechism, and there is required what is further necessary and sufficient.

Repl. 1. If we have all necessary ordinarily, we have that which is suf­ficient ad esse, there is more ordinarily necessary, then to say those words. 2. Do you owe the King no more obedience? Already do you contradict his Declaration, which saith, Confirmation shall be perfor­med (by the information, and with the consent of the Minister of the place.) But if the Ministers consent shall not be necessary, take all the charge upon your own souls, and let your souls be answerable for all.

They see no need of Godf.) Here the Compilers of the Liturgy did,Sect. 3. Exc. 1. 24▪ and so doth the Church, that there may be a witness of the Confirmation.]

Repl. It is like to be your own Work as you will use it, and we cannot hinder you from doing it in your own way. But are Godfathers no more than Witnesses? &c.

[This supposeth that all children, &c.)Sect▪ 4. Ex▪ 2. It supposeth, and that truly, that all Children were, at their Baptism by water, and the Holy Ghost, and had gi­ven unto them the forgiveness of all their sins, and it is uncharitably presu­med, that notwithstanding the frailties and slips of their Childhood, they have [Page 120] not totally lost what was in Baptism conferred upon them, and therefore adds, Strengthen them, we beseech thee O Lord, with the Holy Ghost, the Comfortes, and daily increase in them their manifold gifts of grace, &c. None that lives in open sin ought to be confirmed.]

Repl. 1. Children baptized without right, cannot be presumed to be really regenerate and pardoned. 2. We speak onely of those that by living in open sin, do shew themselves to be unjustified; & these you confess should not be confirmed. O that you would but pra­ctise that! If not, this Confession will witness against you.

[Before the Imposition of hands,Sect▪ 5. p. [...]0 Rubr. &c.) Confirmation is reserved to the Bi­shop, in honorem ordinis to bless, being an act of Authority, so was it of old. St. Hierome Dialog. adv. Lucifer, says it was, Totius-Orbis-consentio in hanc partem; and St. Cyprian to the same purpose, Ep. 73. and our Church doth every where profess, as she ought to conform to the Catholick usa­ges of the Primitive times, from which causlesly to depart, argues rather love of contention, than of peace. The reserving of Confirmation to the Bishop, doth argue the Dignity of the Bishop above Presbyters, who are not allowed to Confirm, but does not argue any excellency in Confirmation above the Sacraments: St. Hierome argues the quite contrary, ad Lucif. Cap. 4. That because Baptism was allowed to be performed by a Deacon, but Confirmation onely by a Bishop; therefore Baptism was most necessary, and of greatest value; the mercy of God allowing the most necessary means of Salvation to be administred by inferior or­ders, and restraining the less necessary to the higher, for the honour of their order.]

Repl. O that we had the Primitive Episcopacy! and that Bishops had no more Churches to over-see than in the Primitive times they had, and then we would never speak against this reservation of Con­firmation to the honor of the Bishop; but when that Bishop of one Church is turned into that Bishop of many hundred Churches, and when he is now a Bishop of the lowest rank, that was an Arch-bishop, when Archbishops first came up, and so we have not really existent any meer Bishops (such as the Antients knew) at all, but onely Archbishops and their Curates; marvel not if we would not have Confirmation proper to Archbishops, no one man undertake more than an hundred can perform; but if they will do it, there is no remedy, we have acquit our selves.

Prayer after the Imposition of hands is grounded upon the practice of the Apostles,Sect. 6. Ex [...]. 1. Heb▪ 62. & Acts 8. 17: nor doth 25 Article say, that Confirmati­on is a corrupt imitation of the Apostles practice, but that the 5 commonly cal­led Sacraments, have ground partly of the corrupt following the Apostles, &c. which may be applied to some other of these 5. but cannot be applied to Confir­mation, unless we make the Church speak Contradictions.

[Page 121] Rep. But the question is not of imposition of hands in general; but this imposition in particular: And you have never proved, that this sort of imposition, called Confirmation, is mentioned in those Texts: And the 25 Article cannot more probably be thought to speak of any one of the 5. as proceeding from the corrupt imitation of the Apo­stles, then of Confirmation as a supposed Sacrament.

We know no harm in speaking the language of holy Scriptures,§ 7. Ex. 2. Acts 8. 15. they laid their hands upon them, and they received the holy Ghost; and though imposition of hands be not a Sacrament, yet it is a very fit sign, to certifie the persons what is then done for them, as the Prayer speaks.

Rep. It is fit to speak the Scriptures Language in Scripture-sense; but if those that have no such power to give the holy Ghost, wil say, receive the Holy Ghost, it were better for them to abuse other Language, than Scripture-language.

After Confirmation.

THere is no inconvenience that Confirmation should be required before the Communion,Sect. 8. Ex▪ when it may be ordinarily obtained; that which you here fault, you elsewhere desire.

Rep. We desire that the credible approved profession of Faith, and Repentance, be made necessaries: But not that all the thousands in England that never came under the Bishops hands (as not one of ma­ny ever did, even when they were at the highest) may be kept from the Lords Supper; for some cannot have that imposition, and others will not, that yet are fit for communion with the Church.

The Ring is a significant sign,Marriage the Ring. Sect. 1. p. 3 [...] onely of humane institution, and was al­ways given as a pledge of fidelity and constant love; and here is no reason gi­ven why it should be taken away▪ nor are the reasons mentioned in the Roman Ritualits, given in our Common-Prayer-Book.

Rep. We crave not your own forbearance of the Ring, but the in­differency in our use of a thing so mis-used, and unnecessary.

These words,Sect. 2. Answ. In the Name of the Father, Son and holy Ghost, if they seem te make Matrimony a Sacrament, may as well make all sacred, yea civil actions of weight to be Sacraments, they being usual at the beginning & ending of all such. It was never heard before now, that these words make a Sacrament.

Rep. Is there no force in an argument drawn from the appearance of evil, the offence and the danger of abuses, when other words enow may serve turn.

They go to the Lords Table,Sect. 3. Col. because the Communion is to follow.

Rep. They must go to the Table whether there be a Communion or not Consecrated the estate of Matrimony to such an excellent mystery,Sect. 4. &c.) Though the institution of Marriage was before the fall, yet it may be now, and is consecrated by God to such an excellent Mystery as the representation of [Page 122] the spiritual Marriage between Christ and his Church, Eph. 5. 23. we are sorry that the words of Scripture will not please. The Church in the 25. Ar­ticle hath taken away the fear of making it a Sacrament.]

Reply. When was Marriage thus consecrated? If all things used to set forth Christ's offices or benefits, by way of similitude, be consecra­ted, then a Judge, a Father, a Friend, a Vine, a Door, a Way, &c. are all consecrated things: Scripture phrase pleaseth us in Scripture-sense.

The new-married persons the same day of their marriage must receive the holy Communion.Sect. 5. p. 33▪ Rub. This enforces none to forbear Marriage, but presumes, as well it may) that all persons marriageable, ought to be also fit to receive the holy Sacrament: And marriage being so solemn a Covenant of God, they that undertake it in the fear of God, will not stick to seal it by receiving the holy Communion, and accordingly prepare themselves for it; it were more Chri­stian to desire that these licentious festivities might be supprest, and the Com­munion more generally used by those that marry, the happiness would be grea­ter than can easily be exprest, Unde sufficium ad enarrandum faelicitatem e [...]us Matrimonij, quod Ecclesia conciliar, & confirmat oblatio. Tertul. lib. 2. ad Uxorem.

Rep. Indeed! Will you phrase and modifie your administrations up­on such a supposition, that all men are such as they ought to be, and do what they ought to do? Then take all the world for Saints, and use them accordingly, and blot out the Doctrine of Reproof, Excommu­nication and Damnation, from your Bibles: Is it not most certain, that very many married persons are unfit for the Lords Supper, and will be when you and we have done our best? And is it fit then to compel them to it? But the more unexpected, the more welcome is your motion; of that more Christian course, suppressing of licentious festivities, when shall we see such Reformations undertaken?

Visitation of the Sick.

FOrasmuch as the condition,Sect. 1. p. 7▪ &c.) All which is here desired, is already pre­sumed, namely, That the Minister shall apply himself to the particular condition of the person; but this must be done according to the rule of pru­dence and justice, and not according to his pleasure; therefore if the sick per­son shew himself truly penitent, it ought not to be left to the Ministers plea­sure to deny him Absolution, if he desire it. Our Churches direction is acc [...]r­ding to the 13. Can. of the venerable Council of Nice, both here, and in the next that follows.

Rep. But the question is, whether he shew himself truly penitent or not; if we have not here neither a judgement of discretion, for the conduct of our own actions, what do we with reason? Why are we trusted in the Office? And whose judgement must we follow? The Bi­shop cannot have leisure to become the Judge, whether this man be pe­nitent. [Page 123] It must then be the Minister, or the man himself. And must we absolve every man that saith he repenteth? Then we must believe an in­credible profession, which is against reason: Some are known Infidels, and in their health profess that they believe not the Scripture to be true, and make a mock at Jesus Christ, and perhaps in a sickness that they apprehend no danger in, will send for the Minister in scorn, to say, [I repent] and force him to absolve him, that they may deride him and the Gospel. Some of us have known too many of those that have for twenty or thirty years been common drunkards, seldome sober & week together, and still say when they came to themselves, that they were sorry for it, and did un [...]eignedly repent, and as they said in health, so they said in sickness, dying within a few dayes or weeks after they were last drunk: Must we absolve all these? Some dye with a manifest hatred of an holy like, reviling at those that are careful to please God; yet saying, they hate them not as holy, but because they are all Hypo­crites, or the like; and yet will say, they repent of their sins. Some for­bear not their accustomed swearing and cursing, while they profess re­pentance. Some make no restitution for the wrong which they say they repent of: And must we take all those for truly penitent? If not, the Minister must judge. What you mean by your saying, [Our Church's direction is according to the 13th Canon of the venerable Council of Nice both here and in the next that follows] we know not; The se­cond Council of Nice you cannot mean (its Canon being uncertain) and the 13th of no such sense. And the 13th. Canon of the first Council of Nice, is onely, that lapsed Catecheumens shall be three years inter and ientes, before they pray again with the Catecheumens. This shews they then took not up with every word of seeming peni­tence, as true repentance; but what it is to your purpose, we know not, nor is there any other Canon in that Council for you: The eleventh Canon is sufficiently against you: The lapsed that truly repented, were to remain among the penitent for three years, and seven years more, if they were fideles, &c. ab omnibus vero illud pre­cipue observetur ut animus eorum, & fructus poenitentiae attendatur, quicun (que) enim cum omni timore, & lacrimis perseverantibus, & operibus bonis Conver­sationem suam, non verbis solis sed opere, & veritate demonstrant, cum tem­pus statutum etiam ab his fuerit impletum, & orati [...]nibus jam coeperint com­munica [...]e, licebit etiam Episcopo humanius circa res aliquod cogitare:) We know this rigor as to time, was unjust, and to the dying it was abated; but you see here that bare words that were not by seriousness, and by deeds made credible, were not to be taken as sufficient marks of peni­tence, of which it was not the person himselfe that was to be the Judge.

[Page 124] The form of absolving in the Liturgy,Sect. 7. Answ. is more agreeable in the Scriptures then that which they desire, it being said in St. John 20 Whose sins you re­mit, they are remitted; not, Whose sins you pronounce remitted; and the con­dition needs not to be expressed, being alway necessarily understood.

Rep. It is a controversie amongst the learnedst Expositers, how much that of John 20. was proper to the Apostles, and such others as were then to have the Spirit in an extraordinary manner, who did remit sins effectually by remitting the punishment of it, by casting out Devils, healing the sick, &c. according to that of Jam. 5. 14, 15. Is any sick a­mong you, let him call for the Elders of the Church, and let them pray for him, and annoint h [...]m with Oyl in the Name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up, and if he have com­mitted sins, they shall be forgiven him. If besides this remitting them ef­fectually, the rest be no other then a Ministerial pronouncing them so given by God according to his Covenant in the Gospel, then you can­not plead the phrase of a Text, which respecteth another way of re­mission then we pretend to but must phrase it according to the nature of the thing, and the sence of other Scriptures also that fullier open it: There are three wayes of pardoning; 1. By grant or gift (whe­ther by a general act of pardon, or a particular.) 2 By sentence. 3. By execution, that is, preventing, or taking off the penalty. The first of these is done already by God in the Gospel. The second God doth prin­cipally, and his Ministers instrumentally, as his Messengers. The third, (the taking off the penalty) they can do no otherwise in the case be­fore us, then by praying that God will take it off, and using his ordina­ry means. So that it is most evidens, that this Absolution that Ministers are to perform, can be no other then to pronounce the penitent Belie­ver to be absolved by God according to his Covenants: And if there be no other should we not speak as intelligibly as we can? Indeed there is more in absolving the Excommunicate, for then the Church both judiciously▪ and executively remitteth the penalty of Excommunicati­on, (to which also the Text, John 20. may have much respect) but the penalty of damnation can be no otherwise remitted by us, than as is expressed; and indeed, the thing is of such exceeding weight, that it behoveth us to deal as intelligibly and openly in it, as we can. And therefore we admire that you should say, The condition needs not be ex­pressed, being always necessarily understood; Necessarily! do you mean, Necessitate n [...]turali, & irresistibili? So that all the wicked men in the world cannot chuse but understand us to speak conditionally? Surely this is none of your meaning; if it were, it were far from truth: Or do you mean not, de necessitate vel certitudine eventus, but de debito ex ob­ligatio [...]e? no doubt but it is necessary as a duty, and also ad finem, as a [Page 125] means: And therefore it is, that we desire it may be expressed. And doubtless you think not that all men do their duties, and understand all that they ought to understand, no not in this particular. If you mean that all sick men may be rationally supposed to understand it, this can never be believed by us that are [...]acquainted personally (and have been) with so many, of whom it is not true. How many think the Mi­nisters absolution, and the Sacrament, will serve turn, with their un­sound hypocritical repentance? How easily is that understood ab­solutely, or as bad, while they take you to take it for granted▪ that they have the condition which is absolutely expressed.

Is it not fit the Minister should have power to deny this viation,Sect. 3. p. 34. Exc. [...]. or holy Com­munion, to any that humbly desire it, according to the Rubrick, wh [...]ch no man disturbed in his wits can do; and whosoever does, must in charity be presumed to be penitent, and fit to receive.

Rep: There is no condition mentioned in the Rubrick, but that he be desirous to receive the Communion in his house humbly is not there▪ And why may not a man disturbed in his wits, desire the Communion? You deny things that ordinarily fall out, and yet lay the weight of your Cause on that denial. But why must we give the Sacrament to those that have lived in gross ignorance, infidelity and prophaneness and ne­ver manifested credibly, that they repent? You say, that whosoever de­sireth the Sacrament, according to the Rubrick, must in charity be presumed to be penitent: But where hath God commanded or approved so blind and dangerous an act as this, under the Name of Charity? The ordi­nary observations of out lives is not to be confuted by mens asserti­ons: We know by sad experience, that there's abundance of the worst of men among us, that are desirous to receive this Sacrament when they are sick, that give no credible evidence of true repentance; but some in the ignorance and deceit of their hearts, and some as consci­ous of their impiety, for which they seek any shifting remedy to quiet their Consciences for the time, are much more eager for this Sacrament in their sickness, then many better and more penitent persons. And must we [...]udge all these penitent, and give them the Sacrament as such? We must needs profess, that we think this course would not be the least effectual service unto Satan, to deceive poor sinners, and keep them from knowing their misery, and seeking aright after the true remedy in time; pardon us while we lay together the parts of your Doctrine as we understand it here delivered, and leave it to your consideration, what a Church, and what a Ministry it would make. 1. All Infants of any Parents in the World that we can baptize are undoubtedly rege­nerate, and in a state of life, and sh [...]ll be saved if they so dye. 2. The [Page 126] Holy Ghost and forgiveness of sin being then given them, it is charita­bly presumed that they have not totally lost this, notwithstanding the frailties and slips of their child-hood; and so when they can say the Ca­techism, they are to be confirmed. 3. Being confirmed, they are to be admitted to the Lords Supper. 4. All that marry, and others, thrice a year must receive the Lords Supper, (though unfit.) 5. The Minister must absolve all the sick, that say they repent; (if we understand you, for we suppose you allow not the Minister to be judge.) 6. This Abso­lution must be absolutely expresly, I absolve thee from all thy sins, with­out the condition, If thou repent and believe. 7. Whosoever desireth the Communion in his sickness, must in charity be presumed to be penitent and fit to receive. 8. The Minister must not have power to forbear such baptizing, absolving, or delivering the Communion as foresaid. (We now omit what's said of the dead at burial.) And if this be not the ready way to hinder thousands from the necessary knowledge of their unrenewed hearts and lives, and from true repentance, and from valu­ing Christ as the Remedy, and from making a necessary preparation for death, and also the way to lay by abundance of faithful and con­scion [...]ble Ministers, that dare not take such a deceiving dangerous course; we must confess our selves much mistaken in the nature of mans corrnpeion and misery, and the use of Gods Ordinances for his reco­very.

The Burial of the Dead.

It is not fit so much should be left to the d [...]scretion of every Minister,Sect. 2. and the desire that all may be said [...] the Church,Rub. [...]. being not preten [...]ed to be for the ease of tender Consciences, but of tender heads, may be helped by a Cap better then a Rubrick.

Rep. We marvel that you say nothing at all to our desire, that it be ex­pressed in a Rubrick, that Prayers and Exhortations there used are not for the benefit of the dead, but onely for the comfort and instruction of the living: You intend to have a very indiscreet Ministry, if such a needless circumstance may not be left to their discretion. The contrivance of a Cap instead of a Rubrick, shews that you are all unacquainted with the subject of which you speak; and if you speak for want of experience in the case of souls, as you now do about the case of mens bodies, we could wish you some of our experience of one sort (by more converse with all the members of the Flock) though not of the other. But we would here put these three or four questions to you.

1. Whether such of our selves as cannot stand still in the cold Win­ter at the Grave half so long as the Office of Burial requireth, with­out the certain hazard of our lives, (though while we are in motion we [Page 127] can stay out longer) are bound to believe your Lordships, that a Cap will cure this better then a Rubrick, though we have proved the con­trary to our cost, and know it as well as we know that cold is cold? Do you think no place but that which a cap or clothes do cover, is capable of letting in the excessively refrigerating air.

2. Whether a man that hath the most rational probability, if not a moral certainty, that it would be his death, or dangerous sickness (though he wore twenty Caps) is bound to obey you in this case.

3. Whether usually the most studious laborious Ministers, be not the most invaletudinary and infirm? And 4thly, Whether the health of such should be made a jest of by the more healthful, and be made so light of as to be cast away, rather then a Ceremony sometime be left to their discretion? And whether it be a sign of the right and ingenu­ine spirit of Religion, to sub [...]ect to such a ceremony? Both the life of godliness, and the lives of Ministers, and the peoples [...]souls; much of this concerneth the people as well as the Ministers.

We see not why these words may not be said of any person,Sect. 3. pag. 35. whom we dare not say is damned; and it were a breach of charity to say so even of those whose repentance we do not see: For whether they do not inwardly and heartily re­pent even at the last act, who knows? And that God will not even then pardon them upon such repentance, who dares say? It is better to be charitable and hope the best, then rashly to condemn.

Rep. We spoke of persons living and dying in notorious sins, sup­pose they were Whoredom, Perjury, Oppression, yea Infidelity or A­theism, &c. But suppose we cannot be infallibly certain that the man is damned, because it is possible that he may repent, though he never did express it: Will you therefore take him for a brother, whose soul is taken to God in mercy? You are not sure that an excommunicate person, or an Heathen doth not truly repent after he is speechless: But will you therefore say, that all such dye thus happily? This is a most delusory principle! The Church judgeth not of things undiscovered: Non esse & non apparere, are all one as to our judgement: We conclude not peremptorily, because we pretend not here to infallibility. As we are not sure that any man is truly penitent that we give the Sacrament to, so we are not sure that any man dyeth impenitently. But yet we must use those as penitent, that seem so to reason, judging by ordinary means, and so must we [...]udge those as impenitent that have declared their sin, and never declared their repentance. It seems by you, that you will form your Liturgy, so as to say, that every man is saved that you are not sure is damned, though he shew you no repentance, and so the Church shall say that all things are, that are but possible, if they [Page 128] conceit that charity requireth it. But if the living by this be kept from connversion, and flattered into Hell, will they there call it charity that brought them thither? O lamentable charity, that smoothers men's way to Hell, and keepeth them ignorant of their danger till they are past remedy! Millions are now suffering for such a sort of charity. Lay this to the forementioned Propositions, and the World wil see that in­deed we differ in greater things then ceremonies, and forms of prayer.

Churching Women.

IT is fit that the Woman performing especial service of Thanksgiving,§ 1 p. 36. Exc 1. should have a special place for it, where she may be perspicuous to the whole Con­gregation, and near the holy Table, in regard of the Offering she is there to make: They need not fear Popery in this, since in the Church of Rome she is to kneel at the Church-door.]

Reply. Those that are delivered from impenitency, from sickness, &c. perform a special service of Thanksgiving▪ &c. yet need not stand in a special place; but if you wil have all your Ceremonies, why must all others be forced to imitate you? we mentioned not the Church of Rome. § 2. Ex. 2.

The Psalm 121 is more fit and pertinent, then those others named, as 113, 128. and therefore not to be changed.]

Reply. We have proposed to you what we think meetest in our last pages; if you like your own better, we pray you give us leave to think otherwise, and to use what we propounded.

If the woman be such as is here mentioned,§ 3. Exc. 3. she is to do her penance before she be Churched.]

Reply. That is, if she be accused, prosecuted, and judged by the Bi­shops Court to do penance first, which happeneth not to one of a multitude, and what shal the Minister do with all the rest? all tends to take away the difference between the precious and the vile, between those that fear God, and that fear him not.

Offerings are required as well under the Gospel as the Law,§ 4. Ex. 4 and amongst o­ther times most fit it is, that oblations should be when we come to give thanks for some special blessing, Psal. 76. 10, 11. such is the deliverance in Child-bear­ing.]

Reply. Oblations should be free, and not forced: to some special use, and not to Ostentation.

This is needless,§4 Ex 5 since the Rubr. and Common-Pr. require that no notori­ous person be admitted.]

Reply. We gladly accept so fair an interpretation, as freeth the Book from self-contradiction, and us from trouble; but we think it would do no [...]urt, but good, to be more express.

The Concessions.

We are willing that all the Epistles and Gospels be used according to the last Translation.

Reply. We still beseech you, that all the Psalms and other Scrip­tures in the Lyturgie recited, may (for the same reason) be used ac­cording to the last Translation.

That when any thing is read for an Epistle,Sect. 2. which is not in the Epistles, the Superscription be [For the Epistle.]

Rep. We beseech you speak as the vulgar may understand you, [for the Epistle] signifieth not plain enough to such, that it is in­deed none of the Epistles.

That the Psalms be collated with the former Translation,Sect. 3. mentioned in Rub. and printed according to it.

Rep We understand not what Translation or Rubr. you mean.

That the word [...] [this day] both in the Collects and Prefaces,Sect. 4. be used only up­on the day it self, and for the following days it be said [as about this time.]

Rep. And yet there is no certainty which was the day it self.

That a longer time be required for signification of the Names of the Com­municants, Sect. 5.and the words of the Rubrick, be changed into these [at least some time the day before.

Rep. [Sometime the day before] may be near, or at night, which wil allow any leisure at all, to take notice of the proofs of peoples scan­dals, or to help them in preparation.

That the power of keeping scandalous sinners from the Communion,Sect. 6. may be expressed in the Rubrick, according to the 26 and 27 Cannons, so the Mi­nister be obliged to give an account of the same immediately after to the Or­dinary.

Reply. We were about returning you our very great thanks, for granting us the benefit of the 26 Canon, as that which exceedeth all the rest of your Concessions; But we see you will not make us too much beholden to you: and poor Christians (that will not receive the Sacrament contrary to the example of Christ and his Apostles, & the custome of the Catholick Primitive Church, and the Canons of General Councils, must be also used as the notorious impenitent sinners. But the Canon requireth us not to signifie the cause, but upon complaint, or being required by the Ordinary.

That the whole Preface be prefixed to the Commandements.Sect. 7.

Reply. And why not the word [Sabbath-day] be put for the [Se­venth-d [...]] in the end: Must not [...]uch a [...]alsification be amended?

[Page 130] That the second Exhortation be read some Sunday,§ 8. or Holy-day, before the Celebration of the Communion, at the discretion of the Minister.

That the general Confession at the Communion be pronounced by one of the Ministers,Sect. 9. the people saying after him, all kneeling humbly upon their knees.

That the mannner of consecrating the Elements be made more explicite, and express;Sect. 10. and to that purpose those words be put into the Rubr. [then shal he put his hand upon the Bread, and break it] then shall he put his hand un­to the Cup.

That if the Font be so placed as the Congregation cannot hear,Sect. 11. it may be re­ferred to the Ordinary to place it more conveniently.

That those words [Yes,Sect. 12. they do perform those, &c.] may be altered thus; [because they promise them both by their Sureties, &c.]

That the words of the last Rubr. before the Catechism may be thus altered, [That Children being Baptized have all things necessary for their salvation,Sect. 13. & dying before they commit any actual sins, be undoubt­edly saved, though they be not confirmed.

That to the Rubr. Sect. 14. after Confirmation these words may be added [or be rea­dy and desirous to be confirmed.

That those words [with my body I thee worship] may be altered thus: Sect. 15. [with my body I thee honour?]

That those words [till death us depart] be thus altered [till death us do part.Sect. 16.

That the words [sure and certain] may be left out.Sect. 17.

Reply. For all the rest we thank you, but have given our reasons a­gainst your sense expressed in Sect. 13. before, and for satisfactoriness of the last: And we must say in the conclusion, that if those be all the abatements and amendments you will admit, you sell your Innocen­cy, and the Churches peace for nothing.

FINIS.

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