❧ A Goodly Dyalogue betwene Knowledge and Symplicitie.
IMPRINTED at London, by Anthony Scoloker And Willyam Seres. Dwellyng wythout Aldersgate.
Cum Bratia et priuilegio ad Imprimen [...]um s [...]lum [...]
Knoledge
GOd saue you my frende simplicitie
I am glad of your good welfare
Ye are ryght welcome vnto the Cytie
Symplicitie is a straunger in a cytie.
For here ye are a straunger very rare
[...] knowe the cause of your hyther repare
It draweth nowe towarde the terme
Ye haue some matters for to declare
And what they be fayne wolde I learne.
Siplicité
I thanke you knowledge of your good wyll
And of your kyndnes without desert,
But I cam hether for no suche skyll,
Siplicité is sory yt euer he cā in ye [...]é, it is so full of noughtynes.
As y [...] haue vttered vppon your parte
But thys I thought wyth all myne harte
When I same hether vnto the terme
[...] God I had suffred at home great smact [...]
Your facyons be so straunge to learne.
Knoledge
I praye you syr what is your grefe
Hath any man here you offended?
Knoledge desyreth to [...] owe his grefe & promyseth to helpe hym.
Shewe it shortly in wordes brefe
And if I cane I wyll see it amended
Your cause by me shall be defended
I wyll be with you all th [...] terme
[...] counsell towardes you shalbe bended
Your symp [...]enes to teache and learne.
Siplicité
Mary Spr offended I am in dede
And that in conscience ryght greuously
I praye God it shortlye be remedyed
Siplicité thynketh yt Londō will sinke, for synne
That London sinke not moch maruell I,
For here is nought tis but heresy
Blasphemy and slaunder all out of frame
That one man affirmeth an other doth deny
Against the honour of Gods holy name.
Knoledge.
Ah Syr I knowe the cause well ynough then
Of your great grefe in your conscience
And I am ryght glad, for aboue all men
I haue much desyred to haue your presence
Content you, and shortly ye shal haue intelligence
Thogh as yet for a time, sōthing be out of frame
At length amongest vs shall be no difference
Concerning the honour of Gods holy name.
Symplicitie.
Frend Knowledge, that is a thyng impossible
The Byble is cause of contr [...]uersy. Ofer custome is blamed.
That euerin one we shulde agree
So longe as we haue thys beble bible
Nay Nay Knowledge, that will not bee
Do ye not heare and dailys see
Howe men olde custome despyse and blame?
whych thinge is greatly as thinketh me
Against the honor of Gods holy name.
Kg
Though olde custome hath vs longe [...]
Agaynst Gods Gospell manyf [...]stlye
Is it not niece that it shulde be forbedde
[...] olde custome be against ye gospell it must geue place.
And also despysed vtterly?
Yf truth and olde custome dysagree
Shall not trueth olde custome despise and blame
And make hym subiecte to Gods vertue
Yes, that is the honour of Gods holy name
siplicitie.
Wyll ye (o knowledge) be of that minde?
Wyll ye be of that sort and gyse?
Wyll ye beginne newe wayes to fynde
The custome of our forfathers is to be obserued.
And olde custome cleane to despyse?
Howe saye ye, were not our fathers wyse?
Where they not lerned? ye be to blame
Let theyr example your mynde sustyse
Concernyng the honour of Gods holy name
Knoledg
Vnto our fathers God be mercifull
They lyued in darkenes and we in lyght
Our fathers as paul teacheth were vnd a cloude, & sawe not ye truthe.
A litney were vnder a cloude moost wonderfull
Of the trueth, they had no parfect syght
But I saye, through Gods power and myght
That cloude is cleared and set in ryght frame
And all fained fantasies it shall put to flyght
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name
siplicitie.
Wyll ye gyue me leaue to aske you a question
And with my boldnes not to be angrye
I wolde be sory in any condicion,
The [...] of siplicitie.
For to offende you, ye maye beleue me
And I desyre you euen hartelye
Shewe vnto me your opinion agayne
For we two I thynke shall not agre
Concernyng the honour of gods holy name.
Knoledg
Aske what ye wyll, and by Gods grace
As well as my wyttes shall serue me
I shall make answere in lytle space
the gētell āswer of Knoledg
As I haue lerned in gods veritie
Be not afrayd, but speake at lybertie
What so euer ye saye, none shall ye blame
For su [...]ely I trust your minde to satysfye
Concernyng the honour of Gods holy name
siplicitie.
Howe saye you (I pray the) to the holy masse
That long hath bene used of antiquitie
An for many other thynges I let passe)
The first question is of masses
As of masse of masse of requiem and scala rely
That delyuered our frēdes soules frō purgatory
Wyth many mo masses then I can name
Of the v. wound [...]s, and of corpus Christi
To the honour and praise of Gods holy name
Knoledge
Such masses I say, are but Idolatrye
yt all masses satisfactory are Idolatrye of ye bisshop of Romes muēting.
Which the Romysh Antichryst dyd inuent
To blynd our eyes wyth fayned ypocrysy
And all to get money was hys intent
What greater blasphemye was euerment?
If masses shal saue vs, Christs death is invayn
That suffred for vs hys flesh to be torment
Honour therfore no masse, but Gods holy name
Siplicitë
How say ye then vnto the Sacrament
Which all ye go about to denye
Whether Chrystes body be really presēt in the sacrament.
In the hoost, to be bodely present
Fyrst as he was borne of mary
And vppon the crosse as he dyd dye
If ye speake agaynst thys ye are to blame
Thys out fathers beleued, and so do I
To the honour and prasyse of Gods holy name.
Knoledge
The sacrament is an holy thyng
But the vse therof was farre out of frame
And that selfe body on the crosse hangyng
yt Chryste is not' odely [...]ent in th [...] sacran [...]t.
And horne of mary that bl [...]ssed dame
In hys corporall presens I say playne
Is not there present, surely I thynke the same
Who teacheth contrary, his doctyne is vayne
And great dyshonour to Gods holy name.
siplicitie
Ah Iesus mercy what do I here?
God is presēt [...]lwhere & therfore his body is in the sacramēt
Is not he present in the sacrament?
How say you? Is not God present alwhere?
Wyll ye deny the new Testament?
And if he be alwhere, I say verament
He is in the sacrament I abyde by the same
Your deuelysh doctryne the deuell dyd inuent
To the great dishonour of Gods holy name.
Knoledge
Yis syr God is present in very dede
As well all where, as in the Sacrament
But that vnderstand in hys Godhead
yt God is presēt all where ād is not seē, as ye soule of man is inuis [...]ble & icorruptible
And for example terne thys presydent
The soule and the body be thynges different
But the body destroyed, ye soule doth yet remaine
And ye se not the soule, nether yet in the sacramēt
Ye se Gods body, but blaspheme hys name.
Siplicite
Mary syr that is abominable heresy
Is thys your new leranyng and doctryne?
That the prest of [...] up Gods bo [...]y i the sacrame [...]
What thyng can be sayd that is mort blasphemy
Ye shall neuer persuade me brother myne
Doth not the priest from tyme to tyme
lift vp Gods body, and shew vs the same?
In fourme of bread, yea, we se it wyth oure eyen
To the honour and prayse of Gods holye name.
Knoledg
Ye are deceaued [...]o [...]rr symplicitie
Christ offred ones cā not be offred against, masse is ydolatrie & hath no groūd in scriptur.
For Christ being offred ones for all
Shall neuer be offred agayne, beleue mé.
Our masses therfore, are most Idolatry of all
Hauyng no grounde in scrypture at all
If ye say, ye se Chryst lyft vp in the same
You cōmy [...] most shamefull ydolatry wythall
To the great dyshonour of Gods holy name.
siplicitie.
Our curates cōmand vs in payn of dāpnació
To beleue that Chrystes blessed bloude and body
In the sacrament is present, of the same facyon
As he suffred dyed, and was borne of mary
Curates cōmaūde to beleue yt Gods body is ye [...] ye sacrament.
And who soeuer doth say the contrary
To the bysshops, they do accuse the same
As one cōmyttyng most shamefull heresy
To the great dyshonour of Gods holy name
Knoledg
your caries Curats whome cūstūe hath blynded
Do not wel [...]n that thyng knowe what they saye
But loke in the Gospell and y [...] shall fynde it
The [...]fe same Iesus bornt of a maye
Cur [...]t [...]s are b [...] Christ is on ye righte had of ye father.
That was Crucified, dyed, and rose the iii daye
On hys fathers ryght hand now sitteth playne
Hys body is only there present I saye
Who sayth contrarye, doth blaspheme hys name
Siplicité
[...] [...]rowe saye you to fasting dayes?
Are they not mo [...]st shamefully abused?
A questiō of ceremonies.
And what thinke you of our holy dayes
Whych are not m [...]te to be refused
Both palmes and asshes are cleane confused
And offeryng of Candels organe wyth them
Are not all these styll to be vsed
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name?
Knoledg.
I saye no daye more one then other
ye fastig & holidaus made by mā, are of n [...]ff [...]t & all such lyke ceremonies.
By Gods woorde is commaunded to fast
And kept well your Saboth daye my Brother
All other holy dayes are in waste.
your palmes and asshes cleane out cast
yf ye offer to stocke and stone, ye are to blame
They are all but fayned lyke the wyndes blast
And against the honour of Gods holy name.
Siplicitë
Say ye, that fayned is the holy crucifix?
And despyte ye the holy priests absolution?
A qu [...]stiō of y [...]d prufi [...] absoleciē, of the god in ye [...]o [...]e, & such other
Is Gods body a fayned God in the pyr?
Dyd not our beades s [...]e vs to d [...]tion?
Do not the saintes make insercessyen?
Doth not our fastings our flesh tame?
Our holy bread & holy water gyue vs mons [...]ion
To honoure and prayse Gods holy name.
Knoledge
Of the crucifix an Idoll ye made
And your pristes usurped Gods absolution
The bread in the box is no God I sayde
In āswere to the same.
And that your beades are very superstition
your sayntes can make no intercessyon
your fayned fastyng can not your flesh tame
your water and bread, by coniuration
Are great dyshonour to Gods holy name
Siplicitie
And was it not well wyth vs thynke ye
Whan we vsed our pylgrymage for deuotion?
if pylgrymage was not good & ye sayntes wrought [...]ntra [...]les.
To holy sayntes that wrought wonderfully
Great maruels passyng mans expectation
And they helped vs in our perturbation
Almost all thyng that we asked we dyd obteynt
[...]ow say ye? Was not this a godly fation
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name.
Knoledge
That fatron is deuelysh and cleane contrary
yt [...]ylgry: ma [...]e was [...] agaist god [...]s commaūdement.
To Gods cōmaundement, as ye shall see
God sayd and cōmaunded vs very strayghtly
Thou shalt haue none other God but me
If ye worshyp ydols of stone or of tree
ye or thynke they can helpe you ye are to bla [...]
For then ye depryue God of hys glory
To the great dyshonour of hys holy name.
Siplicity
Is fasting and prayer of no effect
Dyd not Chryst to vs make mencion
In his gospell by wordes dyrect
yf fasting ād prayer are of nōe effect
That well, uide vse them for good intencyon?
Yet some men saye ye despise the same
And amongest yourselues ye haue great dissentiō
[...]o the great dishonour of Gods holy name,
Knoledge
Yes, fasting and prayer are much requisite
fastig and prayer are necessary, but no speciall tyme is therto appoited by scriptures.
As Chryst hym selfe dyd to vs examplesye
But I saye in scrypture it is not recyte
To fast or praye any tyme propre [...]ye
But watch ye and pray ye continually
Whan the fleshe doth prycke, them make it tame
Wyth fasting, but beware of ypocrysye
For that is dyshonour to Gods holy name.
siplycitie.
I praye God amend all that is amys
In the woride was neuer so much dyuysyon
One is of that sorte, another is of thys
prayeth yt all abuses may be amēded mē may agre in one.
And each one dyuers in hys opinyon
ye learned men fyrst must agre [...] in one
that after your exāple, our selues we may frame
Then shall we not swarue in any condicion
But prayse all together Gods holy name.
Knoledge
And I pray God wyth you in that thy [...]
To set at one all our diuision
As to hys glory shalbe perteynyng
Knoledge agreeth to siplicities praier.
That all we may agree in one
And no man styck to one opinion
But as Gods worde shall teach hym the sam [...]
Then shall we not swarue in any condition
But prayse all together Gods holy name
Siplicitè
Syrin dede all theys are aboue my reason
desyereth to be caught ye ryght way to fast, praye & to rec [...]yue ye Lordes supper.
And ye be a man well learned, men saye
Wyll ye therfore take payne wyth me this season
My com [...]red conscyence to quyte and stay?
ye say we shulde fast, ye say we shulde pray
And ye supper of the lord, ye prayse much ye sam [...]
To teach me to vse the same after the ryght wa [...]
To the honour and prayse. &c.
yea, that I wyll wyth all my harte
That is the thyng that I euer pretende▪
If diligently ye wyll adu [...]r [...]e
My diligence towardes you is bended
the good wyll of knoledge towards siplicitie.
your symp [...]s hath not me offended
Neyther my boldenes you, I thynke the same
And I trust your grefe shortly to ende it
To the honour and prayse of Gods holye name.
Knoledg
First to your question how ye shuld pray
How [...] shulde praye.
In the .vi. of Math. lerne Chrystes doctrine
Pray not for prayse, as I po [...]rites do I say
But in thy chambre, se thy selfe thou declyne
by thy chambre thy conscyence thou must defyne
And if that be clene, beleue well the same
God wyll rewarde the [...]by his power diuine
To the honour and prayse of Gods holye name.
Knoleg [...]
But in much babblyng esteme no felicicie
we are not hear [...] for our many pr [...] ers, but for the [...] be sayde from t [...] harte.
Lyke as dyd the Pharysees most blynde
your Ladyes psalter was mere ypocrysie
By this place of scrypture, plainly we fynde
your beades brought prayer cleue out of kynde
Christe taught a prayer, let vs vse the same
Deuoutly to be sayd wt harte and mynde
To the honour and prayse of Gods holye name.
Knoledg
your mattens and euensōg in a straunge tongue
your patched masses full of papistry
mates a [...] ev [...]iōg [...] a strau [...] tōg & [...] ceremon [...] [...] vayne.
your shamefull sorte of cerimones dome
As knillyng, kneling and other many
Do they any thing you teach to edifie?
And to pray and thynke not, is but in vayne
The Godly prophet herein agreeth wt me
All these are dyshonour to Gods holy name.
Knoledge
When thou fastest (sayth Chryst) be not sorye
As the ypocrytes whyche pretendyng grauitie.
Dyd dysfigure theyr faces supersticiously
How we shuld fast
That to mens syght they myght seme holy
But when thou fastest, do it secretely
Not for worldes glory, but thy flesh to tame
Than God shall rewarde the aboundauntlye
To the honour and prayse of hys holy name.
Knoledg
But thys is not ment by fryday nor lent
superstycious fastynge is agaynst gods honour.
By the fast of Bernard / or yet of our ladye
Neyther yet of the clouted cloysters aduent
For scripture appointeth no tyme properly
Neyther yet of meates maketh be dyuersitie
But byddeth thy faste, thy fleshe for to tame
At all tymes when soeuer thy flesh prycketh the
Thus fasting, thou honourest Gods holy name.
Knoledge
And now for the holy supper of the lorde
How we shuld receyue the supper of ye lorde.
Let pau [...] be your teacher in each degree
Examen your conscience / let your fayth, accorde
Before ye presume of so hygh a myst tye
For in thys point, fayth onely must be your eye
Fayth must be your tast, & all your wittes frame
It is in your fayth, that ye see Gods bodye
To the honour and prayse of hys holy name.
Knoledge
Thynke not yt ye do eate hym wt your teath
we do not eate Christes body nor drike his bloud but in spiryte by fayth.
Thynke not that ye se hym wt your bodely eye
But eate hym and drynke hym in spyrite & fayth
For he, yet ipuyng [...]oyd giue his body
Vnto hys [...]iscyples, and sayd, eate ye
Thys is my body: yet hys body playne
Before their eyes was present corporally
Theyr fayth dyd iufiyse: their bodely brayne
Knoledge
Let fayth therfore you gouuerne and lede
And in your harte remembre hys passyon
That we shulde before all things beleue in hys passyon.
And that he dyed in very dede
Leuyng to vs for a cōmemoration
Hys blessed body, of such a ynd and facion
That in spyrite & fayth we shuld receyue ye same
Thus doyng / you take it to your saluation
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name.
Siplicité
I pray God thanke you wt all myne harte
The thakes of siplyc [...]té for the good [...] ̄s [...]ll of knoledge.
In these thynges my consyenceis appeased
And in all other I trust sone afterwarde
My harte by you shall be well [...]a [...]d
The blyndenes that in me was, seased
Is almost clered and sit in fr [...]me
And you I do thanke, whome it hath pleased
To teach me to honour Gods holy name
Knoledge
Gyue the laude to God, as moost worthy is
And not vnto man, but vnto hys name
And praye we for the Kynges hyghnes
not to mā but to god be all glory
That Gods gospell hath so in frame
That all we maye see the truth from the vayne
That all we all errours maye worthely blame
That all we hys kyngdō at the last may attayn [...]
In blysse all toghther to prayse hys holy name.
Finis.