GOD saue you Mayster Pasquine my most pleasant compa­nion.

What Marforius? and wher­about goe you?

Thou diddest so much delite me the last yeare with thy cō ­munication, that I am now come, purposely to tarye with thée [...] while, that thou mayst once again tell me of thy vision, wherof this other yere thou toldest me, which pleased me so much, as it would not grieue me to heare it a thousand tymes, much lesse twise.

And I wil tel thée it againe with good will, adding therevnto other things, which then I had no time, nor remembred me to tel thée: aske on hardly, and I will fully satisfie thée.

Tell me firste of all,Heauy thin­ges goe down­ward, and not vpwarde. howe it is possible that thou that arte of stone shouldest get vppe into heauen?

Is it not a greater maruell, that some of these lubberlye greasie Fryers, Parsons, Bishoppes, Abbots and other foule gorbellied fathers, shoulde get vp thither, which are so heauye that Elephantes are scarce able to carye them?

What? these are men, but much more do I maruell, when I thinke, what the Goddes should haue to do with stones.

And I pray thée what haue [Page] the Gods to do with Lions, Bulles, and Beares, which are perillous Beasts? Yea and flying foules too, and yet for all that, in our dayes are they caried aboute in cōpanie of the Gods.

What, we talke of the Goddes of the Christians, let vs nowe leaue Lucians fables.The Gods of stone and wood, are the Gods of the Papistes, and not of Chris­tians.

I am content that thou speake of the Gods of the Christians, doest thou not sée, that they are for the most part made of stone?

I take thē for no Gods.

I know not how y^u takest them: but wel I wote, that the cōmon people now a dayes ta­keth thē so.

And who I pray thée is so folish, as to worship Gods of stone?

I can not tel thée whether this be folishenesse or no,No simall nū ­ber, nor that thi [...]ke them selues no smal fooles. but as farre as I fée, this is of all men accoumpted godlinesse, and if we loke well, we shall finde by their garmentes and furni­ture, that they are worshipped, and this folly hath bene alwayes in mens mindes, as we sée that among those of olde time, was the God Terminus, The God Terminus. of whom a man may reade so many foolishe tales, that it woulde make him weary.

By my truth thou sayst truly, I wel remēber that I haue read of that God Terminus, in what estimation the people of those dayes had him, and yet for all that, me thinkes, that men of oure time should not worship these stones, as they did.

Yea but let vs a while leaue this a part, and stand thou stil and heare me.

I heare thée wel, say on.

Thou knowest Marforius, P [...]squines la­bor and good meaning. y^• sith I was first acquainted with the world, I haue alwayes sought with my whole study, to bring men from euil to well doing, and moste chieflye Princes,Flatterrers alwayes a­bout Princes. and greate men, who haue now a dayes their eares so full of flatterers talke, and of those flies that Diogenes speaketh of,Diogenes flyes. that no voyce except it be of stone, can any more enter into them. For [Page 2] which cause so often and so loude haue I cryed, that I haue enforced my selfe to enter into their eares.

But what a presumption is this of thée, that will doe this without the Popes licence.

God defende that I should be presumptuous, but thou knowest, that it hath bene alwayes necessarie to say and set forth the truth, the which sithe it lieth (as) bu­ried, and that there is none to declare it, it followeth of necessitie by the saying of the gospel,Stones shall cry. that we stones must cry out.

I knewe not that till now. But I will therfore from henceforth so worke that I will be no longer dumbe. But follow thou thy talke.Luc. 19.

And so, seing that I cast awaye and in ma­ner lost all my labour, I began somewhat to doubt, in what sort the thinges of the world were gouerned, and I doubted of the prouidence of God, & of his ius­tice,Pasquine doubteth of Gods proui­dence. seing the affliction of the iust, and the prosperitie of the wicked, and within my selfe I sayde, what may he be, that hath the gouernance of thinges amonges men, and I thought, it shoulde be some other thing farre different from that which gouerneth the thinges of nature.

This is euen the right way to become an Epicure.The high way to Epicures opinion. But what? diddest thou doubt, whether there were one onelye, that gouerneth al?

Yea that I doubted.

And how came that doubt in thy braine.

I saw that God in nature is a thing moste orderlye beyonde all maruell,The beholdīg of nature. I sawe all thinges in their times conceyue, bring forth, flourishe, and giue fruite, rendering as it were last of al, thankes to nature after this sort,The earth mother of all thinges. and afterward againe to corrupt, and returne to their mo­ther and firste originall. I sawe the Heauen and the Starres not a whitte to chaunge from their wonted [Page] course, neither rather or later to rise or go downe, I saw the earth, the sea, and the other Elementes to be verye well deuided, and their chaunges from one to another for the generation and corruption of things, to be ex [...]eadinglye well ordered, and if I did but be­holde the workmanship of man, yea or of a flie, or of an Empt:The gret wis­dome of God in forming his creatures. I was astonished at y^• proporcionate, come­lye, wonderfull & vnspeakeable cunning of the Crea­tor, moste of all seing all thinges done with so greate reason, that nothing in the composition of the nature of things, could either be put to, or taken away with­out marring the whole worke, so that being drowned in the consideration hereof,Psalme. 145. I cried. Great art thou Lorde and maruellous vvorthy to be praysed, there is no ende of thy greatnesse. Afterward if I considered the life of men, and their companie keping, their sta­tes and conditions, so without order and often tymes euillye disposed,Man onely kepeth not order. I coulde not but nedes beleue, that some blinde Diuell had had the gouernaunce hereof, and that did Christ cause me so to thinke, who being king of al together, sayeth notwithstanding, that he is not king of this world, saying:Gods king­dome is hea­ [...]enly. My kingdome is not of this vvorlde, and if it vvere of this vvorlde, my mi­nisters vvoulde surelye fight. And in manys other places the same sayeth,Ioan. 18. calling Sathanas king and Prince of this worlde,Satan Prince of this world. and of this darkenesse, saying: Ioan. 12. Novv shal the Prince of this vvorld be cast out. And in the desert, Sathan promised him all the kingdomes of the vvorlde, Math. 4. if he vvould fall dovvne and vvorship him.

I pray thée Pasquine enter not in­to this heresie,Marc. 1. that Christ is not Lord ouer the world,Luc. 4. hast thou not read, that in the name of Iesus al knées shoulde bowe,Phillip. 2. of things in heauen, of things in earth, [Page 3] and things vnder the earth?

Thou know­est not yet, what this worde worlde meaneth in the scripture.

And what meaneth it else, but this vnmeasurable frame or engine.

Yes Marforius an other thing,What the world is after the Scripture the Scripture calleth the world, the ambitiō, the couetousnesse, the lechery, and all those other thinges that sauour of nothing else but the flesh,1. Ioā. 2. &. 5. so that, the flesh, the worlde, & the diuell, are those thrée furies that with their firebrandes and their Serpentes, make an entermingling and confu­sion of all thinges.

Why then these fatte Friers, that say they forsake the worlde, [...]arye it with them into the Monastaries.

Monasteries are the world it selfe. Yea out of doubt, it is not possible to sée the worlde better, than in the Monasteries: where a man shall sée nothing else, but affections and passions of minde, with the which they seke to aduaunce them selues, or to driue the one the other out of the doores.Some fruites of monasticall life.

Thou sayst truth, but follow on a little.

Bicause I coulde not therefore knowe the nature of this God, that séemeth to gouerne worldlye thinges so blonde­ringly, I sought to know him by his officers, and ser­uauntes, for that it séemed to me, that he gouerneth al thinges by meanes of certaine demigods.

Whom callest thou demigods?

Those that the grosse people call Saintes.Saintes are Demigods.

Beware I pray thée, that thou speake nothing against the sain­tes, but well, for thou knowest in how great estima­tion they be with the worlde.

God kéepe me from speaking euil of his frendes,Saintes in great estima­tion with the worlde. I go not about to tell thée other than the truth, neither shall I at a­ny time be charged, to haue spoken any thing that is euill, or wicked, except it be by suche as woulde call [Page] the truth wickednesse.

Lette it not séeme straunge to thée, that there be nowe a dayes suche men, as doe labour so to call it.

For suche kinde of crueltie,Truth will be truth how so euer it be cal­led. I care not, I knowe that the truthe can not be but truth.

Returne a little to thy purpose, for me thought thou was framing an ar­gument, à minori ad mains, or to be better vnder­stoode, à delegato ad ordinarium.

Thou speakest like a right Canonist.Marforius a Canō lawier And to satisfie thy de­sire, I say, that finding no meane, to cleare my selfe of this doubt, with my selfe I sayde, what the Diuell of holinesse, goodnesse, or equitie finde I in these sain­tes, that now a dayes are so worshipped of the world, & that haue taken in hand the gouernment of worldly things?Saintes are not as they are named. Who if they nowe be, or do, that which some­time they were, or that is sayde they were or did, I shall sone consider, what is the order of this gouerne­ment, if not, yet haue I cause to doubt. And forthwith it came in my minde to make a comparison of the ly­nes of Saintes,A very good way to try Saintes. and of their state, while they were ly­uing, with their presente [...]ate nowe, hoping by this meanes to sée, if the Saintes that liued sometime, be the selfe same, that they say raigne nowe in heauen, and together with Christ doe gouerne al, or else whe­ther those be different, and haue there aboue, other na­ture, and other condicions.True Saintes are Goddes frendes.

And what an arrogancie is this of thée? wilte thou be a iudge ouer Saintes?

No no frende Marforius, let it neuer please God,Who be true Saintes. that I shoulde be a iudge ouer his frendes, who can not sinne any more, neither be spot­ted with any worldly affection:Some be but Saintes in [...]ame. but I would séeke on­lye (as I sayd) if those be they, that gouerne so, or else if there be other vnder their name, that haue none o­ther [Page 4] thing of the saint, but the bare name.

What is that thou sayest? what a presumptuous boldenesse shoulde this be? thinkest thou that there be any that vsurpe the names of saintes, and vnder that godly name deceiue the world?

As though the thing were to bée doubted.The deuil ne­uer becōmeth an angell but when he mea­neth most mischiefe. Knowest thou not, that the Diuell vnder the forme of an Angell of light, worketh all his deceytes? for if he shoulde shewe him selfe plainly as he is, none woulde beleue him. Know­est thou not that Superstition and Hipocrisie are the Diuelles Retorique, with the whiche,2. Cor. 11. he maketh the worlde beleue, al that he listeth,The diuelles retorique. Beholde the Fryers, I pray thée, thinkest thou, that they woulde euer haue bene able, to make the worlde beleue so many mani­fest falshoodes,Fryers the di­uels scholers. and foolishe [...]oyes, if they had not lear­ned this art of the Diuell?

Why then, their coates, hoodes, and sundry colours, are they de­uised by the Diuel?

Yea out of doubt:The diuel [...] d [...]uise. for if they were the same that they woulde be counted, what nede shoulde there be of such disguised garmen­tes? the whiche say they, do signifie that whiche they ought to be. This is a cleare case, that while there is shadowe & signification of the thing,Marke well. there is not the thing it selfe. If they were in dede, what shoulde they nede to séeke so to appeare?All is not gold that glistereth.

I haue heard in dode, that outwardly they be one thing, & inwardly an other.

Thou mayst be sure of y^•, if thou beleue the Gospell, whiche saythe. That there shall come vvolues to deuour vs, clad in shepe skinnes, by cause they vvill not be knovven: for righte well thou knowest, y^• one shepe eateth not another,

Thou tellest me Pasquine greate matters, and suche as I neuer heard before, and yet haue I studied many [Page] yeares the Canon lawe, and in the subtil pointes of Iohn Brokenshinne, Iohn Broken­shinne a wry­ter vpon the Canon law. and yet did I neuer reade these thinges, which haue in them somewhat more, than e­uery man vnderstandes. Tell me now, how thou ma­dest this comparison, for I remembre I read in Plato, that it is a goodlye way to finde out the truth,A good way to finde out the truth. to sepe­rate the thinges that are like, from those that are dif­ferent. And I thinke this same be it, that our Logiti­ans speake of, that contraries being layd together, are the better discerned.

Thou sayest wel, but to come to the poynte. Take thou which thou wilt [...], a­mong all the Saintes, yea if thou wouldest take the Uirgin Marye, who hath the chiefest place, and then consider well, after what sorte she was in tymes past, while she liued, and in what sorte she is nowe, after she became to be Diefied: And thou shalt finde, that I doubt not without cause,No more like than fire and water. whether she that is set vp­on the Aultars, be the selfe same that was mother of the Lord.

Make thou Pasquine this com­parison, for herein thou hast a better iudgement than I,Comparisons odious. beside that, by vs Canonistes comparisons are coū ­ted odious.

So I wil, sith it pleaseth thée, but aunswere me a little, to that I will aske thée, for so the matter shall be the clearer: what deest thou thinke, that the mother of the Lorde was in times past?

If we will beleue the scriptures,The prayse of the Virgin Mary. she was a Uirgin moste chaste, moste modest in beha­uiour, moste holy, most humble aboue all other crea­tures.

And also very well learned in holy scripture,The price of the dog what it meaneth, looke in Deut. 23. full of charity towarde the poore, without a­nye iote of couetousnesse, without desire of gayne, or ryches, not deuouring the price of the Dogge, not estéeming Beades nor costly garmentes Is it not so [Page 5] Marforius.

Yea truely, but what callest thou the price of the Dogge.

That which by vowe,Greate oddes betwene Ma­ry Christes mother, and Mary on the Aultar. for wicked requestes if they come to passe, is giuen to hir.

I vnderstand thée well.

Thou séest therfore, what she was once, now tel me what thou thinkst by this, y^• with so much wax, with so much golde & siluer, with so many chaynes & brouches, & with so many perfumes, the world doth at this day honor.

I can not tel what to say of hir.

I maruel of thée,Great hurt commeth of false religion once receyued y^• thou sayest y^• canst not tel what to say of hir, in so cleare a matter.

Maruell not at all thereat. For this Religion wherein I haue so long time liued, hath in such sorte blinded me, y^• albeit I would, I can not, nor dare not,Ianichers for the most part are christians borne, and denying that fayth, become Turkes, and are the garde of the Turke. Which is to cause a man to confesse by induction, that which he would not, and so ouer­throwe him selfe. giue this iudgemēt. Thou knowest what a great mat­ter it is to be borne & bred vp in any Religion: & ma­ny times it is of greater force to be bred vp in it, than to be born in it: as we se of the Ianichers. Beside that I doubt, that if I should say any thing against hir, she would forthwith be reuenged vpon me.

If thou wouldest continue in thy false Religion, appro­uing it to be good by this mea [...]es: the Turkes and Moores will continue in their owne, & yet shalte thou not be able to say, that theirs is false. But yet for all this thine opinion, doest thou not graunt me, that she is not the very same?

Thou talkest with me after the maner of Socrates in his disputatiōs, vn­derstanding not the end where about thou goest.

Harkē therfore Marforius. Of force thou must graunt me this, that all Sainctes ought to follow the eternall father,Christ the ex­ample of sain­tes. and his sonne Iesus Christ.

This can I neuer deny.

The father is not desirons of reuenge as thou séest, for he maketh [Page] his sonne to rise,Math. 5. vpon the bad & the good.

Oh what great g [...]dnesse is that.

Beside that, christ dyed for sinners,1. Cor. 15. of whom, he should rather haue bene reuenged,Luc. 23. & prayed for them that put him to death. Moreouer thou hast his mercifull promise cō ­firmed with an othe, which sayth: I will not the death of a sinner,Ezech. 18. but rather that he repent and liue.

Oh true benignity and humblenesse of heart.

Thou sayest well,Math. 11. thou wilte graunt me also,Christ com­maunded his Saintes to be meke and hū ble. The Pope commaūdeth h [...]s to be cruel and seeke re­uenge. that Christ commaunded those that be his, that they should learne of him, to be méeke and humble of heart.

It is true.

Wherfore then art thou afrayd, y^• the Sainctes, as cruel Tirans desirous of reuenge, would doe thée harme?

Bycause I sée, that in manye places, they haue done straunge and cruell miracles.

Doest thou thinke, that if they had bene aliue, they woulde so haue done?

No not I, for if their His­toryes be true, a man may sée, that they were moste wonderfully pacient, euen vnto the death.

How canst thou then beleue, that these Saintes that I speake of, and those I spake of before, are due selfe thing?

Their miracles make me to beleue it.

What? knowest not thou,Antichrist must worke miracles. that Anti­christ with his monstruous miracles, must put the worlde in confusion?

I haue heard say so: but this is yet looked for,Dan. 7. to come with the Messias of the Iewes.

And if he were here nowe,Apoc. 13. wouldest thou any whit the better consider these my­racles?Math. 24.

And howe can I knowe, that he is here nowe?

By the signes that Christ hath taught vs,Sygnes to know Anti­christ by. among the whiche there is one moste manifest, where he sayth: when you shall sée the abho­mination [Page 6] of desolation standing in the holy place.Math. 24.

And what meaneth that?

It meaneth,Antichristes temple dis­scribed. that whē we shall sée in the place where God onely ought to be honoured, that other Goddes are worshipped: That is the temple of Antichrist, and the abhomination. For what thing can be more against Christ, than to driue Christ out of his temple,Nothīg more against Christ than Anti­christ. and to put other in his place, to whome it is attributed to worke miracles, and many other notable feates? And why doe these miracles so much moue thée? knowest thou not, that where they are ryfest,Miracles are tokens for the vnbeleuers. there is the lesse signe of faith, and commonly those signes are foreto­kens of the destruction of common wealthes, and de­cay of Cityes. For these Gods seing the most high god angry for their naughty Religion, and that he will al­together ouerthrow this worldly common wealth, to the ende the people should not waxe wyser,An old prac­tise of the pre­lates. & so espye their doinges, they kéepe them entangled with these miracles, to the which they runne like shéepe for their last refuge in their troubles: And euen so was it by Baal in the olde Testament, that the more the Lorde was by that kinde of worshipping honoured by the prophets, so much the more did the miracles increase, & it was sene, y^• Baals miracles had thē greater force, than the worde of the Lorde,Iniquity shall haue the vp­per hande. so that vntill the capti­uitie of Babilon, for feare and for the Religion of mira­cles, the Iewes could not rid them selues of the wor­shipping of Baal, nay,Superstition and Idolatry are vehement persuasions to the ignorant. they said sometime, that bicause they had left of worshipping of him, that was cause of all their miseryes, as may be sene in Ieremy, where he sayth: Since we lefte of to do sacrifice to the Quéene of heauen, we haue had scarsitie of all thinges. And to the ende thou knowe it,Hier. 44. these Goddes hurte none but [Page] such as beleue in them, but to those that dispise them, they can do no hurt at all,Gods of small power, that would hurt and can not. for if they could they would long sithens haue destroyed all Almaine, and all the townes of the Svvychers, who haue destroyed these Goddes, and chaunged the prices of them into a bet­ter vse.

Sith thou sayest that Antichrist raigneth now: couldest thou shewe me what he is?

I can righte well shewe thée him, if thou canst and wilte abide the hearing of it.

That I can, for I am redy to dye for very lust to heare it.

Antichrist is so called by this effect,Antichrist what he is. by­cause he is against Christ. But the name of this king­dome1. Io. 2. &. 4. (with the which) as happy and fatherly he coue­reth the vnhappy name of Antichrist, that he may the more safely deuour, and slea Christes shepe, this name I say is called the number of man, by the Prophet in the newe Testament.

I vnderstand thée now lesse than I did before.

[...]ast thou not read in the Apocalips,Ap. 13. et. 16. of the marke, and of the name of the beast, and of the number of man?

I haue some time heard men striue vpon that place, and vpō that whore clothed in Scarlet,Apoc. 17. and droncke with the bloude of Sainctes,The great whore. whome they called the great whore, and they sayd she had in hir hande, a Cuppe of golde full of abhominations, and hir filthy lustes, and if I remember me well, they called hir also Babilon, Babilon. the mother of the fornications of the earth. But by cause I heard not the beginning of the disputation: I could not vnderstand what that whore was.

All this that thou hast sayd, belongeth to Antichrist, and to his kingdome, which thinges thou shalt clear­lie vnderstande, by that time I shal haue declared vn­to thée, the name, with the which that wicked person [Page 7] doth nothing else, but sel him selfe to the worlde. But hearken to this.

I am here al redy there­to.

The letter of his name is.The beastes name discri­bed. P A the nū ­ber is. P P A A. and the name is made by putting ech of those letters amids his two felowes. For as Pytha­goras Disciples say, the number of man is double or two fould, the which doth clearely appeare, sith there are in the name contayned but two letters onely, as thou haste séene in the number. And albeit euery of those letters is twice formed, they are not for all that any more than two figures of letters, & two sillables. Understādest thou it yet or no?

I vnder­stande it very well, for this name & these letters come often in my way in the Canon lawe. But beware Pasquine that thou seeke not to knowe to much,Ignorance breadeth de­uotiō the P [...] ­pistes say. thou shouldest doe better to beleue simply as I doe, hauing bene so taught by a cunning Frier.

What callest thou to beleue simply?

This, not to labour to much in holy scripture,The doctrine of Monkes and Friers. and to leaue those thinges to the Diuines.

That is to beleue ignorantly, and not simply, knowest thou not that place of the Gospell,Ioan. 5. which sayth? Search the Scrip­tures? if thou beleue so Marforius, thou deceiuest thy selfe fowlly, for this is not simplicitie, but rather a fo­lishe and carelesse credulitie.

I will tell thée true, I did beleue, that simplicitie and ignorance were both one thing.

Thou deceyuest thy selfe I say, for there is a greater difference betwene them. SimplieitieSimplicitie what it is. is not ignoraunce, but a certaine clearenesse and singlenesse of minde, whose contrary is doublenesse: if thou know therfore what it is to be of a double minde, thou shalt also vnderstande what it is to be of a single minde.

I knowe well [Page] what it is to be of a double minde, for this often times happeneth vnto me,Canonistes cōmmonly are not acquain [...]ted with sim­plicitie. but suche maner of simplicitie as thou speakest of, I know not.

I beleue i [...] well, for you Canonistes, can not be both subtile and simple together, but would to God that your crafti­nesse might be turned into simplicitie,Canonistes subtile but not simple. for then should there not be among you so many disceytes, wayes to entangle men in, and suche deuises and delayes, and there should be no maner disputing. De Iure stricto & largo, but onely that which is iust and good shoulde raigne in you.

What is simplicitie then?

Simplicitie is a vertue,Who is a simple man. the which who so euer hath, sheweth with the effectes what he is, he is no hipocrite, but in euery thing, and in euery act, is séene a great clearnesse and singlenesse, and he is such that in him thou mayst trust any thing that thou hast, for being sincere, he doth sincerelie behaue him selfe. Moreouer concerning the knowledge of thinges and their experience, he wil haue a sincere and sure iudge­ment, without any colour or disguising of Hipocrisie.

If the matter be so, it must nedes be, that the simple man be replenished, not onely with great goodnesse,What he must be that wil vnderstād the scriptures. but also with great learning & iudgement together, for these things are requisite to him that will diligently search, and vnderstande the Scriptures.

Thou sayest truth.Luc. 12. & 21.

Then are there in these dayes many simple without simplicitie.

It is true,Mar. 13. in these dayes, and there is little godlinesse amongst Christen men, they were in olde time simple, those true Sainctes, who * lacked not what to aunswere to the Iudges, bycause they beleued simply,Simplicitie and constan­cie are com­panions. and this beleuing simplye, can not be without a very great stedfastnesse: for this simplicitie hath al­wayes [Page 8] wayes in company,cie are com­panions. a certaine most firme constnancie of minde, and about it a wall of brasse, & such as these be, put on no visours, nor strange garmentes, but wil be knowen of euery man for y^• they be. But this mas­king and disguising, is neuer without some suspicien of deceite. And what thinkest thou this saying mea­neth, be ye simple as Doues? but that ye haue that singlenesse of mind, that belongeth to a Christian,Math. 10. and shewe the same in your coūtenaunce,What is meant by the simpliciti [...] of Doues. in your maners, in your apparell, and in your workes, as Doues doe, the which faine not one thing, and do an other, as doe the Foxes, but openlye shewe their naturall white­nesse, and mildenesse in all their life.

Is there not then one Frier that is simple?Friers be fox­es, and [...] Doues, for all they seeme so simple.

As thou thinkest of thē, they are al so, but as I thinke, there is not one so.

In very déede I did euer beleue till now [...], that we must be simple, that is to say, ignorant, doltish, & very Asses.

Such opinion haue they had, whome the shéepish foolishnesse of our time hath nouseled vp, but I say to thée, that the Christian should be very well learned,The Christiā ought not to be ignorant. & wel exercised in his owne lawe: for so shall he not be able to be mo­ued by any maner argument, being wel grounded vp­on that sure stone, whereas he that shall be ignorant, shall be redy to fall into alher [...]sies,Psala. and to al disceites: for ignorance, agreing with all thinges,Ignorance cause of many e [...]rours. and lacking of iudgement, at one instant taketh holde of truth, & of falshoode, without making at any time any distinc­tion at all. And hereof are risen so may heresies, and sectes among the christians. For being ignorant,The colour of religion hath deceyued ma­nye. they haue bene deceyued by crafty créepers, most of all vn­der the colour of Religion. And therefore some folow­ing the rule of that man, & some of this man, those o­ther [Page] of an other man, and not one there is, that folow­eth the rule of Christ, the which without superstitions and falshoods,Math. 22. commaundeth vnto vs, the loue of God, and of our neighbour:Mar. 12. it is therefore no maruel, that the Iewes and Turkes become not Christians,Why the Ie­wes & Tur [...] become not Christians. seing the Christians deuided into so many sectes, with the which also, they dare take vpon them, to call them sel­ues spirituall, being altogether carnall. Paule in the first to the Corinthians, cryeth out against these sects, saying: If any of you say I holde of P [...]ule, i. Cor. 1. an other, I holde of Appollo, an other I holde of Cephas, the fourth I holde of Christ, are ye not carnal, is Christ de­uided?

I knowe these errours very wel,Meaning he should expoūd to him the scripture, as they do the law to other. A drianns for Atrianus I will that from henceforth thou be my Grat [...]an, and my Panormitan, but thou shouldest preach this about the streates.

I woulde gladly do it, but I feare the decrée of that flemish Pope.

Per­aduenture thou meanest Adrian. Thou canst not speake Dutch wel.

Atrian thou must say, for so a man may sée in his Epitaph.

Thou nedest not doubt any more of him, for he is dead.

So woulde God,Pasquine wis­sheth the ouer throw of the Pope, and his kingdome. that this that now is, and all that shall come after, were with all their traine and trash that belong vnto them: but yet for al this, there want no priute watchers. I haue heard say, y^• Chietti hath spoken the Diuell and all againste me, in that théeuishe consistorie.Pasquine euil spoken of, by Card. Chietti, bycause he called him by his right name.

And why?

Bicause I tolde him his true, proper & natural name, that is to say h [...]pocrite, but let him doe and say what he will, for I set not a turde by him, sith I am made immortall, and become a God, aswell as he is besp [...] ­rited and become a Diuel.

But now re­turne a little, and tell me the cause of thy going to [Page 9] heauen.

It was this that I haue tolde thée,The cause why Pasquin went to heauē for that I sawe these Saintes to be so farre different from that they were sometime, I would nedes goe to heauē purposely to sée, whether they haue there aboue the selfe same nature. For me thought it a thing vn­likelye, that this Saint Mary here belowe,The Image of Mary compa­red for hir gay attire, to the heathen Goddesses. that hath the painting on hir face, that hath crownes full of Iewels on hir heade, that hath Chaynes aboute hir necke, that hath Ringes on her fingers, that hath so costly and so many sortes of garmentes vpon hir, like one of those yong Girles of olde time, me thought it not I say, that this was al one, with that most humble mother of the Lorde, and so much the more I confir­med my selfe in this opinion, bicause I sawe this La­dy to be most couetous,A couetous and cruell mother that suff [...]reth hir sonne to beg and she hath so much. moste desirous to heape vppe treasure, and most nigardly in spending it, and if she let any thing of hir owne goe out of hir handes, shée delt it most wickedly, so that I sayd often to my self, if this be th [...] Lords mother, why hath she not compassiō vpon her sonne, whom she séeth euery day in y^e church where she is,The poore re­p [...]esent christ. goe aboute asking almes.

What sayest thou? hath Christ nede then?

Yea, in the poore that represēt his person, for he sayeth. Math. 25. Loretto is with them, as Walsingham was with vs, a place to which much gayne was brought, and and no good­nesse caryed thence. In as much as you haue done it, to one of the least of these my brethren, ye haue done it vnto me. Yet not­withstanding, if this hir some aske hir but one Dot­kin, she doth not giue it him, but standeth vpon hir grauitie, and looketh bigge, without once chaunging hir countenance, nor shewing any maner signe of cō ­passion. But when the holy Father goeth to Loretto, when those most reuerend Cardinals, when the spiri­tuall fathers goe vnto hir, she geueth to these genera­tions all that she hath, to spend vpon whores, dogges, [Page] horses, and Ganimedes, whiche I shoulde haue sayde first, the which things I am right well assured, were al farre wide (without all comparisō) from that true & most pure virgin the Lords mother, y^• which aboue all other things hated this filthy kinde of men, beside that I was right well assured, y^• those that be the very sain­tes in dede, being with God, who is most riche, haue no nede of our goodes,The true saintes s [...]ke n [...]y­ther good [...]s, nor glo [...]ious Churches. The treasures of the papistes are a pray for the Turkes. nor of our offeringes, nor that they be so gréedy of glory, nor sake not for such goodly Churches, nor so riche Aultars and other ornaments, whiche are in daunger to be one day robbed by the Turkes, sithens suche as be the greate men in the worlde, take not the same them selues. These thinges are rather for the satis [...]ying of vaine & witl [...]sse men, than of Saints, who neuer called them selues Kings nor Quéenes of heauen,Math. 6. but the seruantes and hande­maydes of God,The treasures of true s [...]in­tes layd up in heauen. and woulde haue their dwellinges & treasures in heauen, (where there is no daunger of Turkes, for they goe not vp thither) whiche treasu­res are not golde and siluer, but iustice, peace and ioy, in the holy ghost. And perceyuing newe by all these wayes aforesayd, that these be no Saintes, and seing that the worlde would enforce me to beleue, that they be Saintes,Deady sinne to speake euill of these false Saintes. and that it were deadly sinne to speake e­uill of them, I determined to goe to heauen, to cleare me of this double.

I maruell that none hath sought this before thée.

All haue lefte of, for a certaine foolish, and light beliefe, and bycause they had holy thinges in small estimation, being con­tent with a false and wicked Religion,Couetousnesse and cruel [...]y a hinderance to the truth. the which hy­therto (I know not by what meanes) hath holden the worlde sore bewitched. And if there were founde any one, that had begon to discerne the truth, by and by [Page 10] haue they had their eyes closed, that they should sée no further, nor wade déeper for knowledge therin.

Thou hast tolde me y^• cause of this thy voiage, tell me now how thou wentest vp, and by what way, and then what thou sawest there aboue. For there must nedes be thinges farre diuers from ours, & from al that we can imagine or thinkeof.

I will tell thée the whole, so that thou hearken wel vnto me.

I hearken to thée, say on.

Sée­king the way to go to heauen, I coulde not finde it, albeit I had red many things of Protheus, Icarus, and Menippus, who (men say) wente vp thither, but they tell not by what way. Wherevpon I determined to aske one of these Angelles of it, whiche all day goe vp and downe, and they tolde me, that there was none o­ther way but by death: that way I liked not, bicause life is deare to euery man, but by chaunce I found an other way.

And what way was that?

That being in a traunce,Pasquines way to heauē. all these things should by reuelation be shewed vnto me.

Who taughte thée that way, some Negromancer?

Holde thy peace, for this practise was deui­sed by holy fathers, haste not thou read in the liues of holy fathers, that Hilarius the Abbot,Hilarius an aduocate at the generall Iudgement. standing on his féete in his chamber, founde him selfe to be before the iudgement seate of God, and there aunswered Pro & contra?

I neuer read it.

Hast thou not also read that booke intituled: Memorare no­uissima tua. &c.

This title is in none of all my bookes, but tell me, who hath taught thée this thing.

This other day I was called to the monastery of the Charter house Friers, by a certaine Frier there, that began to vnderstande the matter, & [Page] (as it oft happeneth) séeking not for it,Pasquine found that which he sought not then for. I founde this thing.

And what matter haddest thou to doe with that Frier?

He prayed me that in certaine workes that I then had in hande, I would somewhat nippe the Prior of his house.

What had he done, that thou shouldest so nippe him?

I can not almost tell thée, but he alleaged certaine Sophisticall foolishe tryfles, which I did not very well vnderstande.

Do [...]st thou not remember them?

He complayned that his father Prior commended muche more that parte of Aristotle called posteriora, The old Frier meaneth some mystery ther­by. than the other called pri­ora, & that being in this prepost [...]rous opinion, he ne­uer vsed demonstrations, but onely induction.

What meant he by that f [...]ndenesse?

I knowe not why he lefte the demonstrations, except it were, bicause they are taken from the principles of nature.

I vnderstande what thou mea­ [...]est, followe on.A busteling among the Friers in the Cloyster.

while I was with this Frier, I hearde in the Cloyster a great busteling, for thou knowest well that they make their Celles one harde by an other, like Waspes and Harnettes.

What doest thou tell me? I thought these Friers had bene of the kinde of the Frogges of Seri­phia, bicause they make a conscience to salute any that commeth in to them, so muche (men say) they estéeme silence, but thou sayst thei brawlled?

They did not onely brawle,Fryers toge­ther by the eares. but were together by the eares, and if I had not come, they would haue layde handes on their staues.

Whervpō brawled they?

They disputed of these Traunces, and of their vaine visions, and of the maner howe they sawe them.

Did they striue vpon a thing that [Page 11] they accompt so certaine?

Yea for when a certaine yong Frier sayde, that these were the drea­mes of olde sicke men, and that they haue in them no maner of truth, and that he himselfe had bene already thrée yeares in the Monasterie, and there neuer hap­pened any such thing to him, an other old Frier tolde him that he neuer coulde skill of that practise, and the yong Frier laughing at that, bycause he called specu­lation, practise, the other excused him selfe saying, that he called not the vision practise, but the preparation, and the thinges that goe before the vision: the yong Frier then being desirous to heare thereof, began to demaunde of this practise. Then began I also to hear­ken,How Pasqui [...] learned the practise of these visions. to the end I might also learne this prety conceyt, and so I vnderstode al the meane, howe a man should prepare him selfe to these visions.

Is it lawfull to knowe so greate a practise? may it be done without the bloude of a blacke shéepe?

It ought not to be opened, yet will I tel it thée, that thou mayst do the same, if by chaunce studying a little bet­ter, thou shouldest peraduenture maruel how it com­meth to passe, that the Cannons of the Apostles,The Cannons of the apostles, farre differēt from the Po­pes Canons. that are so godly, are so farre different from the Cannons of the Romishe Byshops that came long afterwarde, and that are so wicked. And for all this a man must beleue, that they are all in one selfe heauē.

This is good to be noted, & therfore I pray thée tel me the whole story,The beginnīg of the votage. point by point.

He would that first of all, the Frier shoulde keepe a moste absti­nent fast, eight dayes together.

This is but a leane beginning, chieflye for Friers that are so well prouided for the Kitchin, and I heare say that these pale faced father Friers, will eate like Corme­rants.

Then that he should be confessed.The way to clymbe vp to the Popes heauen.

That is a very denout thing.

Then that he shoulde not meddle with any fleshe of male or female kinde.

What is this?A priuy nip. why then do these mayden Friers that make this vow of chastitye, vse such matters.

And many of them vse the matter worse, who knoweth not that? but why doest thou put me out of my tale.

Procéede therefore.

Then must he heare seuen Masses of the holy ghost: and being thus prepa­red, at midnight on the Fryday,Monkish astrologye. when the Moone is in the last degrée of Cancer, he must lay him self down vpon a Matte, vpon whiche, some other Frier (that hath bene in a traunce) hath slept before.

This they accompt as true as the Oracle of Appollo.

Iust, euen so. Then must he haue on his heade an other Friers hoode that hath bene before in the like traunce, and a stoale about his necke, folded vpon his breast in forme of a crosse, and Saint Iohns Gospell IN PRINCIPIO ERAT VFR­BVM. hanging at his necke, written in redde let­ters, & he must perfume the place with holy perfume, and kepe there by him a Lampe burning with holys oyle, that done, he must draw a circle about the Mat, of red earth and white, and the circle must be double, leauing a little space betwene the outter line and the inner line of the circle, and betwene these two lynes, must be written these wordes.A Coniura­tion. ✚ Pater ✚ Filius ✚ Spiritus Sanctus ✚ Nox visions ✚ Nox reuelationis ✚ Nox veritatis. And thus being prepared, after he hath sayd a certaine charme, he falleth on sléepe.

What charme is that.

A charme that con [...]ureth all spirites, that are appointed for re­uelations [Page 12] and must be thereat, to declare the truth.

By what names calleth he them.

By Hebrew names,Ignorant spi­rites that vn­derstand but one tongue. for they say these kinde of spirites vnderstande none other tongue.

These spirites therefore are verye ignoraunt.

I knowe not what they be, it suffised me that I knew that they are good for this purpose.

And haste thou also Pasquine learned this practise?

And why not. I haue vsed it, and haue try­ed the whole matter.

He that had séene thée in that attyre, might well haue made a Pasquine vpon Pasquine.

Peace Marforius, Meaning tho [...] a man might haue made a least on Pas­quine. thou makest a iesting thou knowest not wherat, when thou shalt haue heard the whole case, thou wilt be of an o­ther minde, and to sée such maner thinges, thou woul­dest desire not onely to be hooded, but also to be of the thirde order of Saint Frances, and also of the straytest order of all called the Scapuchines.

Tell me I pray thée before I forget it, if these Friers haue so many visions, what meaneth it, that they are drow­ned in so many superstitions and falshodes [...] What is the cause that they vnderstande not true godlinesse?

Bycause they desire not to haue the truth of sacred thinges to be opened vnto them, but other tryfling toyes, that are rather contrary to godlinesse: and herein they offende, that they binde good spirites to doe vile seruices.

I praye thée tell me some one of these tryfling toyes.

Some one desireth that he be shewed vnto him, y^• hath stolne his mony: for this purpose is appointed the Aungell Colamiachel, The A [...]gell for lost mony. who sheweth him selfe in the forme of him that hath stolne it: albeit they say that Saint An­thony of Padoa, hath begon to take charge him selfe [Page] of these thinges,The Saint for thefe stolne goodes. whereof his Friers receyue greate gaine.

Oh cursed sorte of rascalles, that dare be so bolde to constrayne a good Aungell, to take vpon him the shape of a théefe.

Beside that they desire to know whether the wife loue hir husbād, or the swete heart hir louer, or the Ganimedes his ho­ly father. To all which thinges, there is no Aungell appointed but Saint Helene mother of Constantine, who if the loue be like & equall,The Saint for [...]oue matters. sheweth hir selfe with certaine faire Damosels, and at a table plenteouslye furnished, eateth with the Frier that is fasting: but if the loue be fa [...]ned, and naught worth, she feareth the Frier with weapons, with fiers, & with chaūging hir selfe into dy [...]ers shapes, as into a wilde Boare, into a Lion, into an Asse, who euil fauouredly crying, séemeth to say, that this loue is not to be trusted vnto.

Oh poore saint Helene, is this thy reward for finding the Crosse, that thou shoulde be driuen to search for the loues, and for such foolish toyes of men? Those examples be nowe sufficient for me, I vnder­stande the euill vse of things. Tell me now the rest of our first talke.

With a good will Hauing therefore marked all these thinges well,Pasquine go­eth about his businesse. Coliseo. I setled my selfe to do all that herevnto was nedefull. Here nere vnto the Coliseo is in the olde ruines, a certaine hole vnderground, whiche I thinke no man else knoweth of, faire wrought with printed fygures of earth, cast in mouldes, & with maruellous trim printings that yet remaine, thether I resorted, and brought with me my Matte, the Hoode, the holy Oyle, the Stoale, the Chaulke, the Bole Armoniacke, the perfume of Sto­rax Beniamin, and setting my things in order, and after the coniuration once read, I layde me downe [Page 13] to sléepe,Pasquinc sal­leth into a traunce. & forthwith was I drowned in a most sounde slepe, like vnto that which they haue, which be trou­bled with the Lethargi. Then me thought the heauen and earth came together, and that euery thing retur­ned to the olde Chaos, and so I lost my memorie, that me thought I was no more that Pasquine that I was wonte to be, me thought that I had dronke the iuyce of Poppy.The begining of the Popes Apocalips While my braynes went thus whir­ling about, I saw come flying from far of, a great fire, sore flaming and sparckeling. It was of the fashion of the manifolde impressions of fire, whereof Aristotle speaketh in his Meteora, The discrip­tion of Pas­quines guid. but the stirring of it was like the Rockets and Squibbes, and whirling wylde fiers of Castell Angelo, what tyme they celebrate the dis­moll day of the Popes creation. After it was come nere me, it shedde it selfe all about me, stretching out his beames in suche sorte as the Sunne is painted, a­mids the which there was a man in a white garment, who demaunded of me what I woulde haue, I being thus moued, partly for the straungenesse of the thing, and partly for feare, comming afterwarde by little & little to my selfe, thus with much a do, I aunswered, who art thou Lord,The Angell for true and holy visions. he sayde that he was Hierusata­nael appointed for true & holy visions: and if I would haue any thing, that I should aske him. Then did I in the best maner I could, shewe vnto him the occasion of this my comming vnto him, demaunding of him pardon for my presumption,Pasquines re­quest to the Angell. for that I a mortal man, was so bolde to commaund one that is immortall, af­firming further that it shoulde doe muche good to the world, if Pasquine who is counted a narrow searcher out of things, might enter to see heauē. My talke plea­sed him wel, & herevpon I begon to take a little heart [Page] of grace, and the more for that he forthwith shewed him selfe to me with a countenance altogether plea­sant, he asked me into which heauē I would go, affir­ming that there were two heauens,Two heauens. into one of the whiche Christ ascended, when he departed from the worlde, from the which he shall also discende accom­panied with his Angels,Mark. 16. to iudge the worlde. The o­ther Math. 16. was sithens builded by the handes of Popes and mortall men, who had small skill in building. When I heard that, I was exceding glad, seing I had found the meane to be out of doubt of the truth. And I pray­ed the Aungel if it were possible, that he would cause me to sée them both, & he promised me I should. Then did the flame that compassed me aboute, turne it selfe into the fashion of a Charet,Pasquine go­eth to heauen in a fiery Charret. like vnto that which did cary away Helias, vpō the which, the Angel sat down, and then made me sit downe beside him. As we were moūted, the Charet caried vs away through the aire, vnto the Sp [...]re of the Element of the fire, there chaū ­ging our Charet, we followed our v [...]yage, and draw­ing already nere to the Spere of the Moone, the Aun­gell sayde he would passe no higher, & turned the ray­nes toward the North, going much further from the Sunne, I sayd vnto him whither goe we Lorde? he aunswered me,The situation of both the heauens. to the Popes heauen, which is on this side, for the Lordes heauen is towarde the Southeast, which is the highest parte of the heauen,The Lordes heauen and the Pop [...]s dy­rect contrary. as this is the lowest, and this standeth right ouer against the other, as the Antipodes are vnto your Citte, so that they be directly contrary. And thus talking, I saw a farre off a City so great,The desc [...]ip­tion of the Po­pes heauen. that it séemed that Venice, Constā ­tinople, Rome, Cairo, and Paris, had bene al ioyned to­gether, the forme thereof was as it had bene a Maze. [Page 14] And the same so mounting vp like a winding snaile, made newe deuisions, newe market places, and new streates, and in the toppe it had a great Castle, so that standing without the Citie, it was séene euery whitte within,There be ma­ny within the Popes heauen but none can be seene with­out. and all the streates of it might be casely coun­ted: but there coulde not one body be séene in it, and that was, bycause all the streates, and all the Market places were inuironed with highe walles that stop­ped the sight, but the walles of the Citie were full of Towers, and euery Tower had his gate, made wyth such wonderfull craft, that there is no Maze in all the worlde that may be compared vnto them. I sawe goe in & out through these gates many spirites, who onely can skill what subtile deuises the same be that are in them.

Thou paintest me out rather a Do [...]ecoote than a heauen frende Pasquine, but what businesse haue those spirites to doe?

When they went in, they went loden, some with Supplica­tions, some with Rosaries, some with Beades, some with Waxe, some with Oyle, some with Incense, some with Golde, some with Siluer, some with Chay­nes, some with precious Stones,Chopping and chaunging in the Popes heauen. but when they came out, they came lodē, some with peace, some with war­res, some with raine, some with haile, some with win­des, and suche other like thinges, desired to be had, or not to be had,The couetous­nesse of the Popes heauen. by foolishe men.

Did they neuer bring forth no money?

No that I sawe.

Oh couetous heauē. But I thought that this heauen had had but one gate onely, and that Peter had kept it.

Bycause thou mayest the better vnderstand the matter, besides the gates of the Towers, made in such forme as thou hast hearde, there was an other great one, through the which th [...] [Page] men onely entred,The false do­nation of Cō ­stantine. the whiche is but botcherly made, and in the same is grauen the false donatiō of Cōstā ­tine, and those first signes of victory of the Popes, and how by little and little, they haue brought kings and Emperours, to be vnder them, and haue vsed them to kisse their féete. Among other things, I sawe a Pope set his foote on an Emperours throte. There were al­so many other thinges, the whiche I understoode not very well. As we were nowe come to this gate, after we had a while behelde the caruings therof: the An­gell knocked, by and by, an olde hoarse Carle asked who we were, the Angell answered, that there was a Citizen of Rome that desired to sée those holy places, the olde man would nedes know his name, and when he had hearde the name of Pasquine, with a churlishe countenaunce he sayde, and art thou he, that doth so great hurt vnto this our kingdom with thy writings, pulling men backe from our Religion, and from of­fering vnto vs? get thée packing, for here within wil we haue no suche raylers nor scoffers, and so saying shut vpon vs a little piece of a windowe that was in the gate,Pasquines iudgement of the Popes heauen. then laughed I at it, saying with my selfe, here must nedes be within, many things to be laugh­ed at, and to be scorned: sith they will haue none to enter in that may marke them. Yet was I sory that I could not sée them, & I asked of the Angell what was to be done, doubting I had lost both my time and my labour.Luther and Zwinglius digged a Myne to ouer throw the Po­pes heauen. The Angell stoode a whyle studying with him selfe, and then sayde that he knewe a certaine Myne, knowen to very fewe, which Luther and Zvvinglius, had made to ouerthrowe this heauen, whiche Myne was afterwarde made bigger by many other.

Oh that angel was an honest fellow.

[Page 15]Yea truly and (for as much as I saw) he was no great frende to this heauen, he went therefore to the Myne, the which had the mouth therof very little & straight, and couered with thornes & boughes in such sorte, as no man would thinke that there is any such thing as there is in dede. We entred in, and there came a­gainst vs a Pioner, clothed after the Dutch fashion, that had vpon the sleues of his garment these letters, V. D. M. I. AE. that is to say. Verbum domini manet in aeternum, which in our tongue as thou knowest, is as much to say, as the worde of the Lorde endureth for euer.Esay. 40. And there harde by, were two little banners, in one of the whiche was written in letters of golde. IN QVIETNES AND CONFIDENCEEsay. 30.SHALL BE YOVR STRENGTH. and in the other. COME VNTO ME ALL YE THAT LABOR AND ARE LADENMath. 11.AND I WILL REFRESH YOV. This man asked vs who we were, I tolde him I was Ma­ster Pasquine the Romaine, my Christen name plea­sed him better than my Surname. Then saide he, y^• this way entreth no man, that maketh not the same confession of fayth that he him selfe confessed,Pasquine ex­amined of his beliefe. and his felowes also. Thē I asked him what confessiō I must make, he demaunded of me, which of these two things I beleued, whether Christ were y^• head of the Church or the chiefe Byshop. Whereat I laughed and sayde, both, he maruel [...]ed much at such a maner of answere, and sayd, how can that be? hath the Church then two heades, like the Eagle in the Emperours armes? I ieasted with him and sayde, if thou graunt me,Hebr. 6. that Christ is the chiefe Byshop,Ephe. 5. thou must nedes graunt that the heade of the Church is Christ, and the chiefe [Page] Bishop of the same, but if thou wouldst that I should haue answered thée otherwise, thou shouldest haue as­ked me, whether I beleued that Christ is the heade of the Church, or the Pope? he then perceyuing my iea­sting, said to me, it can not be denied, but that thou art the same pleasant Pasquine that I haue heard so ma­ny tymes cōmended, but tel me in good sadnesse, what thou confessest vpō this matter: speaking then in good earnest,The confession of Pasquine. I confessed that I beleued that Christ onelye and solely is the head of the Church, and that to haue so many heades, and so many bodyes, is a thing méete for Cerberus, Briarius, and the diuell and such like, and not for heauenly bodyes: for asmuch as the Church, hath onelye one heade,Ephe. 5. 1. one onely spouse Iesus Christ, and that al other are members of the Church.Cor. 3 He hea­ring this,Psal. 45. made so muche of me, that he constrayned me excéedingly to loue him, and most of all, when I hearde him call me brother in Christ. Then led he me into a place lyke a Dorter, into the which the further I entred, the more the same became larger & larger, & it was a great building, & all the walles thereof were vndermyned so beneath, that all the whole worke might easely haue bene ouerthrowē.

Who dwelled there?The inhabi­tantes of the Popes heauen.

In the first entering in, we hearde a wonderfull noyse, of Shéepe, Kine, Goates, Asses, Hartes, and suche lyke beastes, and entring in further, we sawe them in such number as can not be tolde, but among them, was there not one Woulfe, Lyon, Beare, nor other lyke.

What is that I heare thée say? wherefore were these Beastes there?

Bycause they had eaten herbes in the Lent, and other euill things, and neuer had eaten any fleshe.

Why were there no Wolues [Page 16] nor Lyons there?

For two causes, the one for that they had eaten fleshe on Fryday and Sa­turday, and in the Lent, the other bycause in their places were the Friers, who dwelled there euen hard by.

What are not the Fryers aware of that daungerous building, they were wont to be in al things vengeable subtile and crafty.Friers craftye hipocrites.

Euen so they be, but nowe they song merely, that saying of the Psalme. That vve should be saued from our eni­mies, and from the handes of all that hate vs. Luc. 1.

Didst thou know none of those Pioners.

I sawe many wyly fellowes, and a great part of them spake Dutch, yet were there very many Ita­lyans and French men. Of those that I knewe, one was Fredericke Duke of Saxon, Pioners that labor to ouer­throw the Po­pes heauen. who séeing the Gos­pell come abrode, set open his gates vnto it, there was Zvvinglius, Oecolampadius, Luther, Odoricus Co­gellus, Fabritius, Capito, Lambert, Iacobus Faber, Ie­rome Galateus a Venetian, y^• for the Gospel sake, was pined in a most cruell prison ten yeres long, & a Spa­niard called Iohn Valdesse, being one of Cesars knightes, now became Christes knight, and many other, all whiche, with much strength were digging away the foundation.This heauen is in great daunger of falling.

This heauen then standeth in great daunger of falling.

I thinke sure­lye that it will shortly come to naught, bycause it hath the foūdations of it very weake, and made with little skill for so great a building.

Diddest thou sée I pray thée of what stuffe those foundations were made.

What I saw inough of it, for those that digged shewed me of it for a miracle, wondering how it shoulde be possible, that so great a City should stand so long vpright.

Tel me I pray thée [Page] a little, what stuffe was it, whereof the foundations were made?The [...]uffe whereof the foundation of the Popes hea­uen is made.

There were Hoodes, Beades, sluttishe and filthy Garmentes, knotted Coardes for girdels, shauen Cr [...]wnes, Nonnes vales, and a thou­sand sundry sortes of garmentes, as many of shooes, as many of Cappes, a thousand sundry colours: there were also, rotten fishe, al sortes of hearbes, al kindes of graine for potage, Byshops Myters, triple Crow­nes, Hattes redde and gréene, Pardons, Candels, dy­uers bookes, and such other thinges, all which were tempered together with a softe kind of stone, & with Lime, and this was the base or foote of all their foun­dations, the which bycause it shoulde not come out be­lowe, for that it is a very soft kind of stuffe, was ther­fore holden vp with foure rankes of walles, the firste of which walles,The foure walles that holde vp the Popes king­dome. was called Superstition, the seconde Pride, the third Ignorance, the fourth Hipocrisie, and betwene the one and the other of these walles, was it full of that stuffe whereof the foundations are. It is not therfore to be doubted but that this building must nedes come to ruine, for there is a wonderfull discon­uenience betwene the sleightnesse of the stuffe where­with it is builded, and the greatnesse of the waight of the whole building: & besides that, bycause there raig­neth an exceding couetousnesse among them, and thei bestow no more mony in building: but all heape to­gether great summes of mony,The Popes Marchantes are afeard of a fall. like suche as are sone ready to forsake their owne Cuntrey, and to go dwel else where. To returne nowe vnto my first purpose, sith thou hast nowe vnderstode the whole matter con­cerning the Mynes, & of the buildings of this place. This Pioner ledde vs to a certaine Caue, through the which a man might beholde al the City, and it was so [Page 17] croked, that it would not make any man suspect, that matter which before I tolde thée. Being come thither, I began to say to my selfe, what if the olde Carle espy that thou arte entered in at this caue, sith he woulde not let thée come in at his gate, howe wilte thou then do? and thinking thus I bit my nayles, the Aungell perceyued it, and after he had both demaunded and vnderstoode the cause of my standing so in a study, he byd me, that I shoulde be of good chéere, affirming, that here men must be past shame,Courtiers re­proued of vn­shamefastnesse as courtiers are, who runne without shame to the Table, and without any reuerence, euen so must he do, that will goe and beholde these places. His counsell lyked me, and so ta­king courage, I came out of the Caue.

I am glad thou foundst so commodious an entring, but tell me, are they all Saintes that be there?

In name they are all Saintes that be there, but by their looke and by their maners, they be very vnlyke Saintes.Diuels in forme of sain­tes.

What is the cause?

I know not, but by that the Aungel tolde me, they are Diuelles, in forme of Saintes, that vnder this couer­ture deceyue the worlde. And if we will consider wel the place, it séemed rather to be a Market, or a Court, than a heauen: for there were dyuers broade places, where Fayres and Martes were kept, as a man may sée in this Towne, in Milaine, in Venice, and in great Cities.

Paint me out I pray thée, the Citye, and the occupations of those that dwell in it.

The order of Monkes and Eremites. Being now entred through the Mynes, we founde that in the firste streate dwelled Monkes and Eremites, as in the lowest parte of the City.

Oh thou must nedes haue séene there many wor­shipfull fathers.

Thou mayst be sure of [Page] that.Friers names and Surna­mes. There were all the Manducantes or Mendican­tes, the Augustians or Augustinians, Carnalitanes or Carmelitanes, Demonicanes or Dominicanes, Fraudis­canes or Franciscanes, and the Cerui or Serui, the Be­nebibenes or Benedictines, Caprusianes or Cartusia­nes, and an infinite sorte of such.

But diddest thou sée Sainct Fraunces?

I sawe him not,Saint Fraun­ces become a fisher. one tolde me that he was gone to fishe for soules out of purgatory, angling for them with his girdle of Corde, and an other tolde me that he was called to the counscll, where there was talking of a Monasterie that was erecting in the honour of hym.

Who made him that Monastery?

A certaine Gentlewoman of Pulia, A pleasant storye. who ha­uing hir husband in great hatred, went and made hir self of the thirde rule of saint Fraunces, that she might be the more at large from hir husband: and by the or­der of the same rule, she tooke for hir Sonne by adop­tion, a certaine yong lusty Frier, who handled hir in such sorte, as both hir heart fayled hir, and hir pursse shronke, when the Monastery was half way onward.

The selfe same thing happened when I studied at Bononie, that a sonne adopted in this sorte, consumed al his mothers substance.

Was he not punished therfore by the iustice?

I can not tell thée,Bentiuoli sometime Lordes of Bono­nie. but this I knowe wel, that the gen­tlewomā caused him to appeare before the Bentiuoli, who were then Lordes of Bononie, there was good laughing at it, but what afterwarde came to passe, I knowe not

Oh, that a man might with honestie, tell that whiche those Nunnes doe; I coulde then tel many gay things, but it is not possible honest­lye to speake of that whiche they so vnhonestlye doe.

I shall be very glad to heare it at some o­ther tyme. But nowe let vs speake of this matter, sawest thou Saint Dominicke, Saint Bernard, Saint Thomas of Aquine, Saint Bennet, Saint Albert the great?

I saw some of them and some not. I sawe Saint Dominicke was in his shoppe,Saint Domi­nicke kepeth a Turners shoppe. working at Turners craft, and made new Beades for our La­dy. Saint Bernard (as farre as I vnderstoode) was ve­ry busie about his Hilles and his Ualleys, for whē I asked for him,Saint Bar­nard busie a­bout his hils and valleyes. one sayd he was in Clere Ualley, an o­ther sayd in the goldē Ualley, other sayd he was gone to his hil, & other, y^• he was climbde vp to the rocke, to haue some of our Ladyes milke.

What doest thou tell me? hath he so many businesses?

So it was tolde me, but that which kept him moste occupyed,Among the Swichers is a moūtain cal­led by his name, where as foles prate, saint Bernard tied the diuel. was that he doubted sore, least the Svvychers, Saint Bennet. being now become Gospellers, would let lose the Deuill that he tyed vp,Si non castè tamen cautè, Aurelius Augustine. who would afterward go, and all to beshite all his Ualleys.

By my fayth, it is much to be doubted.

I sawe afterwarde Saint Bennet, who cursed his Friers, for that if they coulde not liue chastly, they wrought not closely.

Sawest thou in that place Au­relius Augustine? who (men say) did in his Ser­mons institute Eremites and Monkes, and that for this cause, his Monkes are called Eremitanes.

They lye falsely, those Asses that say that those Sermons be Saint Augustines, which euery one that is learned, cōfesseth y^• they be rather of some ignorant Doltes making, and those Eremitanes also lye falsely, in that they say they be his Friers. For Augustine (more than many other) liued in the felowship of men, and was full of true fayth, true holinesse, & true doc­trine. [Page] And God graunt, that those that say they be his Disciples, would follow him herein, then would they not care for these vanities of tytles.

Saw­est thou Ierome of Stridonia, Saint Ierome. who (men say) lyued in the Wildernesse of Seria?

This Ierome in dede was a Monke,Saint Ierome a monke by will and not by vowe. that is to say, one that of his owne frée choyse liued solitarily a certaine tyme, and not for any vow sake, as these Cloysterers do, he was bound to the vowe onely of Christen religion, and to none other. None of them must therefore séeke to de­fende his secte with the Authoritye of this holy man, who was a most bitter enimy to all sectes, and ambi­tion.

I perceyue that thou sayest true, for that I haue séene in. Can. 12. quest. 1. Cap. Necess. that Monasteries in olde time were nothing else,What mona­steries were in the olde time. but Col­ledges for learning, and scooles for to bring vp youth, albeit that sith that tyme, Superstition and couetous­nesse hath corrupted all thinges, and brought liberty, into bondage and prison. But thou hast not yet made me aunswere whether thou sawest them or no.

I saw them not.

Sawest thou then Amadio Duke of Sauoy?

What he that liuing an Ermites life in Sauoy harde by the lake of Geneua, Amadio first a Duke, then a Pope, and last a Puppy. stoode gaping on the snowe?

Of him I aske.

I heard that he was banished, I knowe not whither, bycause he suffered himselfe to be made Pope, and did not obey Eugeni­us the fourth, and so was he put both from his Pope­dome, and his Dukedome.

Then might he retourne to gaze vpon the Snowe at his pleasure.

Yea, as he that hauing lost all his goodes sayde, now shall I haue more commodity to giue my selfe to contemplation.

What other good [Page 19] thing canst thou tell me concerning these Eremites.

I heard say, that they were in lawe with the townes men of Lucca.

And what haue they to do with those of Lucca? are they become Mar­chauntes those Eremites?

Yea, not of Ueluet,The story of an holy Ere­mite of Lucca but of women, for about fiue yeares ago, an Eremite in Lucca, a notorious false knaue, desirous to get money, vnder colour of Religion, enticed away one Camilla a wydow, one of the chiefest of the town, and caried hir away with him.

And whi­ther?

To Montalciue where these swine as thou knowest haue their stye.

I know it well.

The woman remayned a wydow with a great dower, and therfore this Eremite sought to haue hir, that both the woman & hir dower might leade an Eremites life.

Thou meanest he would not haue the shéepe without the woll.

The womans brothers sayde, that the dower ought to remaine to the house, but they will giue hir the interest and encrease thereof while she liueth. The matter came to Rome, there was openly proued the manifest deceyt and knauery of the Eremite, and yet for all that, was the sentence giuen against them of Lucca, & they were interdicted vnlesse they giue forth the whole dower.All cast in one mowlde.

As these smered shaue­linges be al false knaues, so must they of force fauour suche false fetches. This matter was brought to my hands, but seing the vntowardnesse of the Cardinals, to whom it was cōmitted, I would not meddle with it.

Thou diddest wisely, for what maner of men they be,Pasquine re­fuseth to be a Iudge. by one thou shalt knowe them all, and if we should speake of them all, we had nede to haue the voice of a Lyon, and the tongues of a thousande [Page] Aduocates, to speake but of one of them (their naugh­tinesse I say vnderstande me soundly) might make a booke greater than the Digestes, and the bookes of the Chauncery. Thinke thou therefore whether to speake of them all, there shoulde be somewhat to do.

Let vs nowe therefore leaue these particulars, for the talke should be to long, and tell me somewhat of them altogether. What did those holy fathers, whē thou were there?

Euery one of them la­boured sore,The studies of the holy fa­thers. that his owne order might be holden for the most holyest: knowing this to be the best way, to gather great riches together, and to cause this to be the better vnderstoode, eche one trauayled to séeke out some newe toy, to drawe therewith the common peo­ple vnto him, who are full of wondering. I sawe that they prepared new fashioned hoodes, straunge and hor­rible ceremonies, not séene in the worlde past, but re­serued to fight therewith against the Gospell, for they knowe, that fayth can not with any other thing more easely or sooner be ouerthrowen,Superstition ouerthroweth fayth. than with superstiti­tion, couered with the cloke of true holinesse.

And can this opinion of holinesse do so much?

Thou séest y^• examples therof euery where. Knowest thou not, that at what time y^• order of saint Fraunces began, those that were the first setters forth thereof, so inveigled the worlde with this opinion of holinesse, that they that had not a Monastery of saint Fraunces, in their towne or nere there about, thought them selues vnhappy? Nay, so grewe in the mindes of the siely simple soules,Remedy a­gainst the quartane Ague. this wicked opinion of these mōstruous marked Friers, that to weare their wede, or to goe clothed in that colour, was good against the quartane Ague, and other diseases, and (that worse is) [Page 20] that to be buried in that Habit, was the verye righte way to go to heauen. And therfore that conning man Longolius, Longolius bu­ryed in a Fri­ers weede. leauing the name of a Citizen of Rome, (in whose practise he had so long laboured) would be layed in his graue a Fraunciscane, rather than a Romane. This selfe same honor, had the LordAlbert of Carpi. Albert of Carpi in his heade, Rodolphus Agricola, Agricol [...]. and other innu­merable. But what nede so many words? These Fri­ers are come to that point, with that opinion of holy­nesse, that they haue ridde them selues out of all other mennes handes and autoritie, and haue brought all other men vnder their féet. Who knoweth not, that in olde times past, when learning and good studies were layd to sléepe,Holy horesons that were ta­ken for Gods kinsemen. that al men helde them for God almigh­tyes kinsemen? and estéemed more their commaun­dementes than the commaundementes of God. And they knewe not Christ, whom the Gospell doth plain­ly set forth vnto vs, whiche they kepe in prison.The Gospell hath bene lōg in pryson. And sith they onely had the handling of the booke of peace, and liberty, the common people thought that they had taken all thinges out of that booke, and they with cur­sed and abhominable lyes, tooke out here a piece and there a piece, and with straunge and fearefull mira­cles, and with fayned dreames of purgatorie,How Super­stition first began. kept the poore people in so greate feare and wonder, that they were constrayned to beleue their wicked deuises, and lyes. If thou do consider their lawes, and the waigh­tes and heauy burthens, that they haue layd on mens shoulders, thou wilt sweare that the Iewes law is an hundreth tymes more pleasaunt and easy than theirs.

What haue we therefore to doe herein?

The counsell of Pasquine. To haue recourse to the Gospell, and not suffer our selues to be led by the nose: for the Gospell [Page] hauing bene hytherto through these mennes councels dead, and now rysing againe, it behoueth them to run to the same their olde remedies. And (therefore as I sayde not long since) do they deuise straunge fashions of Masking garmentes, that they may the better vn­der colour of them, kepe the Doltes and Asses of the worlde still deceyued, and subiect to their diuelish and stinking Religion.

Do they then séeke o­ther wayes to bring such as beleue them into distruc­tion?

So I heard say there aboue, nor it can not be otherwise beleued,The Gospell must cut the enimies thro­tes. for that they sée their e­nimy Christ already come abrode, with his simple and plaine Gospell, whiche is the sworde that must cut all their throtes.

Ah tell me I pray thée my god Pasquine, Ephe. 6. (sithe we are entered into this talke) howe Christ being now come abrode,Hebr. 4. hath made these men so much to suspect thē selues.Apoca. 19.

What? knowest thou not then?

No.

Hast thou euer read the Gospell.

Neuer, for I gaue my selfe wholy to the study of the Clemen­tines, the decrées of Popes Ilface, the decretals and ex­trauagantes of Popes.

Thou haste good cause therefore to be ignorant. Now will I tell thée, bycause thou mayst vnderstand the whole matter, that good Iesus Christ teaching a certaine Pharisie the way to eternall life,The doctrine of Christ. taught it him, to doe it all in two pointes, in the whiche two, the whole way, that is to say, all the lawe and the Prophets are contayned. Which two pointes who so euer doth obserue, doth al that the lawe and the Prophets commaund:Deut. 6. and the two poyntes are these.Math. 22. Loue the Lord thy God vvith all thy heart,Mar. 12.vvith all thy minde, vvith all thy soule, and vvith all thy strength,Luc. 10.and thy neighbour as thy [Page 21] selfe. To loue God therefore and thy neighbour, is the way that bringeth thée to heauen,The true wa [...] to heauen. the which way, Christ onely knewe, that came downe from heauen, and then againe went vp thyther. And bycause euery man desireth to knowe it, some haue sought it, and ha­uing founde it out, haue minded to follow this onely, accomting all other for false and euill wayes, and so haue they begon to forsake their whorish pilgrimags, to scorne their scrupulous fastings, & to hate all their abhominable superstitions, & haue reformed all their whole life, in the loue of God, & in loue toward their neighbor.

Then Christ hath not cōmaun­ded their order of Friers?What Christ requireth to be in vs.

I haue told thée already that Christ requireth sinceritie and puritie in those y^• be his, & to leaue counterfeyting and outward shewes to the wolues, & to y^• mōstruous beasts y^• haue nede to disguise them selues, if they wil not with their true countenaunce vncoūterfeyted, make those afeard whom they séeke to deuour?What we ought to de­sire.

If the thing be so, what thing is there in the worlde more to be de­sired, than the Christian life? the which (forsaking al vanities, that haue no respect vnto godlinesse) studieth onely to haue the loue of God, and of his neighbour. If the true bishops and preachers, did preache as they ought to doe, this shoulde be the very health of cōmon wealthes, and the conseruation of the felowshippe of men, and the true life of our soules. For what thing could be more dere to mankind, than that man should be a God to man?Homo homin [...] deus.

Thou sayest well Mar­forius, but thou séest that the simplicity of Christ is an offence to men in these dayes, euen as it was to the Iewes, while they were in the desert. To whom God meant not to giue any other than these two commaū ­dements, [Page] nor to burthen them with outward things, as he had done with them in Egipt,The occasion of Moses law. and before, in the tyme of y^• Patriarks, who without any Ceremonies, without any Churches of stone, & without any other maner of Superstition, did highly please God. But they began to rebell, and would nedes be laden with Ceremonies, as they had séene the Egiptians, and forthwith they fashioned a Calfe, and began to honor it, and to make vnto it the it bankettes, and their pas­times with their Ceremonies, séeking to folowe the Egiptians, which the Lord God when he sawe, deter­myned to burthen them with so great a number and waight of Ceremonies, that neyther they nor their fa­thers were neuer able to beare:The burthen of the lawe. Act. 15. as Saint Peter sayth in the Actes of the Apostles. Euen so iust is it come to passe at this present, that forthwith when mans folly would not be content with Christ onely, with those two plaine precepts, the deuine iudgement let mans folly fall into so depe a sea of Ceremonies and Su­perstitions, that if y^• infinite goodnesse of Iesus Christ had not succoured vs, we should all haue bene drow­ned therin.

O wretched, O vnhappy men, nay dull beastes, that when they may be the seruaun­tes of Christ, will rather become slaues to so euident follyes as these, which are not of any maner profite, nay rather of suche hurt as can not be imagined. And (for asmuch as I sée) Christ doth not stirre vs to any o­ther thing than this.

Truely he doth not stirre vs vnto any other thing, nor séeketh any other thing at our handes, for when he shall come to gyue iudgemēt, he wil not say to vs, haue ye bene at Masse? haue you obserued the thirde rule of Saint Fraunces? are ye Uirgines? nor suche other thinges, but he will [Page 22] aske vs, whether we haue obserued that which with so great diligence he lefte vs written in his Testament,What acc [...]p­tes we must make. while he sayde. Peace I leaue vvith you, my peace I giue to you,Iohn. 14.vnto the end that you loue one another. And this shall be knowen, whether it haue bene ob­serued of vs,Math. 25. when he shal say vnto vs. I vvas hungry, and ye gaue me no meate, I vvas thirstie, and ye gaue me no drinke, and suche thinges like vnto these, the which who so euer hath done, shal go with him to hea­uen: who hath not done them, shall goe to hell: al­though he had heard all the Masses of the worlde, and though he were more than a virgin, & though he had done all those other Ceremonies and Superstitions. For he shall say. I haue not fought these thinges at your hande.

As farre as I can perceiue, they that do the commaundements of men,The differen [...] betwene mens commaunde­mēts & gods commaunde­mentes. séeke their owne profite, but they that do the commaundements of Christ, are bound to seeke the profite of their neigh­bour.

Euen so it is, this is the beginning of all the mischiefe, for ech man séeketh his owne pro­fite and aduauncement, from hence it is come, that there were deuised so many sectes, so great diuersitye of garmentes, so great diuersities of Ceremonies, and so many deuises to shewe them selues different one from an other. But if vve follovve the rule of Christ, vve are allMath. 23.brethren andGala. 4. Tit. 3.heyres a like, vveMat. 22.go all in one selfe garment, vvhich is loue: vve are all of one selfe nature, that is to say, milde and humble of heart: vve are all moste obedient to Princes of the vvorlde. In matters of the spirite we are all a like, nor there is among vs no contention who shoulde be highest, or who lowest, as was among the Apostles, when they imagined that they hadde a Iewishe Messias.

Thou hast satisfied me very muche, but yet of this I much maruel, that sith thei haue lost that opiniō of holinesse, that thou diddest speake of before, they wil yet vse their olde practises, that are already so well knowen to al men.All wayes to the woode are sought to [...]atch money with.

Who so euer sée­keth narrowly any thing, vseth euery way to the wood that he can: euen so, these men goe now to one thing, now to another, agréeing to the tymes & humors of men.

Haue they then other instruments yet to worke their feat withal?

As though they had lacked any time, wherewith to catch men ere they be ware. Hast thou neuer cōsidered the great nūber of miracles that haue bene wrought by Leger demaine? so many Friers? so many open Markets of merits and good workes?

Oh what ab­hominable wickednesse is this, and what good workes can they sell, where when they doe the best they can, they shote euer short, & neuer neither ouer nor home?

They say that they reade their canonicall houres, they kepe their saintes éeuens, say their Mas­ses for the dead, and that they fast as some Dutch men do, that eate for two men, and drinke for thrée.

To heare thée thus among their other foolishe toyes, recken vp Saintes éeuens, and Masses for the dead,Masses for the deade. putteth me in a great doubt. And it séemeth to me a thing verye straunge to see, that thou estéemest not for good, these holy Sacrifices for the soules of the dead. But bycause I sée that thou speakest with so good grounde, and shewest by proufe, that thou canst discerne verye well betwene truth and falsehoode: I would that thou shouldst cléere me of this doubt.

I will with all my heart. Here beginneth the doubt, that it is not yet knowen, whether those that [Page 23] be deade, are saued throughe these Masses or no, and therefore their Masses are endlesse. Lo euen I, (to giue thée an example thereof) before I was chaunged into this stone,The [...]ory of Pasquine and his transfor­mation. was a barber, and had this selfe same name that I nowe haue, and made likewise verses and ma­ny other works: albeit I then vsed the art of flattery the whiche I forthwith forgat, as sone as I was tour­ned into this stone, & when my houre was come, that I should be transforned into this stone, bycause I had bene such maner of man, and hauing a Frier at mine eare y^• tempted me thereto, I bequeathed by my Tes­tament, somewhat for Masses to be sayd for my soule. Mine heyres at a certaine tyme afterwarde, hauing perceiued y^• I was from Purgatory,The opinion of Pythagoras was, that whē a mans soule departed from his body, it entred into the next body that it met, were it of mā or beast. (as they thought after Pythagoras opinion) become thus a stone, and séeing therefore, that I had no more nede of Masses, they asked ofte tymes of the parishe Priest, howe long those Masses shoulde continue, who aunswered, that they muste yet still be sayde, bycause they knewe not, whether I were in purgatory or in Paradise, they said they woulde beleue the best, and that so many yeares now being passed, and that Mayster Pasquine was a good honest soule, and then being a drye bodye as he was they could not beleue, that he could so long con­tinue in the fire. The good Parson in this point put them out of doubt: be it as be may (quoth he) we will say our Masses, and we will haue your mony. And yet mine heires alleaged that I was not in Purgatory, but that I was become a stone, and that I did make and write as I did before. Tushe (quoth he in the end) that is no matter to me, these be my rentes. Thou that art a Canonist, oughtest to knowe, that this is a donation for the respect of death, made with cōdition, [Page] that if Pasquine dye, the Priest should haue this mo­ny to say Masses for his soule, so long as till he come out of Purgatory. For this donation is as it were the vse of a profite limitted, with condition of a thing to come. If this now that is in this condition can ne­uer be knowen, neyther by the dead mans heires, nor by the priest, (for no deade man hath at any time come backe againe hither) what nedeth it therefore, to giue so great goodes to these Massemumblers? or giue so great credite to their Masses? what a mad folishnesse is this, to giue so great credite to a thing so vncer­taine.

What, doest not thou beleue, that some of those that be dead, haue come hither again, to tell their frendes some newes of the other worlde.

Yes, if thou wilte beleue the dreames and lyes of Friers.

If thou wilte nedes that other be lyers, yet shalte thou not for all that make Saint Gregorie a lyer.Pope Gregory was a Frier if he were no lyer.

And yet was he a Frier also, and if he lyed not, yet shamefully lyed that deceitfull dead, or wicked spirite, who made him be­leue that he was the soule of a deade man, and he was but a beast to beleue any such thiing, contrary to the commaundement of God,Deut. 18. who forbiddeth to seke the truth,Esay. 8. (much lesse any other thing) at the dead. But I wil tel thée also an other,Luc. 16. that by one thou mayst learn them all.Iugling of I­pocrite Friers espyed at Or­leaunce. In Orleaunce a Citye in Fraunce, it is not long sith the Presidentes wife dyed, a noble and great woman, who ordayned by hir Testament, that they should cary hit to be buried without lighte, without Masses,Loke Sley­dane in his ninth boke of his Cronicles. and without any maner pompe. And so was she buried in the Monasterye of the Friers of Saint Fraunces. Anone after, they began to heare in that place horrible noyses, vntill one of those Massemum­blers, [Page 24] turning his arse to y^• people, shewed them their round God made of Dowghe. When this was once spred abroade, euery man ran thither, one sayde he heard it, one other said he vnderstode it, & an other said he sawe all. The husbande hearing this, came thy­ther him selfe. Then doth the coniurer binde the spi­rite to aunswere to his questions, and he asked him if he were in Paradise, & there was no aunswere made, he asked if he were in hell, and yet there was no aun­swere, he asked him if he came from Purgatory, and then the spirite made a great rushing against the wal, then did the coniurer aske, whether he was such a one or such a one, naming many and sundry persans that dyed long ago, and yet was there no aunswere heard, nor no maner of noyse, but when he named that wo­man that was buried without pompe, the spirite then made two great rushings against the wall. Then did the coniurer aske whether she were condempned for this or that cause: and in the ende it sayd, bycause she was a Lutherane, then was there heard thrée greate rushes against the wall. The husbande being a wyfe and circumspect man, marked euery thing, and made as though he had much maruelled at the matter, and desired those Wolues to supper, & the day following caused an hundreth Masses to be sayde, and to light a whole worlde of Candels. The Wolues howled, they sent their Gods into Purgatory, wet the graue with vnholy water, and they perfumed it with Frankin­cense, and when this was done, caryed the Friers to dinner, and in the meane season sent the officers to the place where the deceyt was done, where they foūd certayne vaultes, and there within thrée spirites hid­den, whom they toke & caried away.

And [Page] how could they take the spirites, that haue no bodies?

These were of those spirites that haue bo­dyes,Some kinde of spirites haue bodies. Monasteries are spiritual, for sprites dwel in them. of whom Saint Augustine speaketh of, of which sorte are almost all those that dwell in Monasteries.

Were they spirites in dede?

Thou art very grosse, they were thrée Friers of those that they call Nouices, that is to say, such as knowe not yet verye well the sleightes and falshoodes of the Friers.

In dede the Monasteries are e­uen full of deceytes, and the worlde is very blinde in that they espy them not. In Turine also there happe­ned of late the like matter.

Well, the of­ficers hauing found the Bugs that made men afeard, ledde them away like thrée little Diuels as they were, By Belsabub here ye may vnderstande the Prior of the place. into the place where the other great Diuels were at meate, whom when Belsabub and his brethren sawe, they knewe their knauery bewrayed, and as men all dumbe, they began to looke one vpon an other.

But were they not punished for their labour.

Yes afterwarde with shame inough, they were rewarded according to their demerits.

I maruell muche, that the king hearing that these traytours did so shamefuly abuse the true Reli­gion, did not suffer that the Gospell might be fréelye preached.

Thou must not maruell at this, but thou must maruell rather when thou séest,A rare thing to see Princes do well. that a­ny Prince doth any thing that is good, they receyue with good will the true Christian Religion, for eating fleshe on dayes forbidden, and for the other commodi­ties of the fleshe, but they persecute, imprison, and slay, other that in eating of flesh, & in other thinges, folow the liberty of Christ, and condemne the bondage of Antichrist.Apoca. 17. They will fight against the Lambe, but [Page 25] the Lambe shall ouercome and confounde them all. Lo, now are the Wolues all in maner come to con­fusion, and shall or euer it be long be at an euil point, except such as are on y^e Lambes side none shal escape, but this they beleue not, but thou shalt sée it.

I beleue it certainly, for me thinketh that hereof Saint Iohn speaketh in his Reuelation. But to re­turne to Purgatory, of the which I remaine not al­together satisfied, tell me, ought we not to hope the best?

Thinkest thou that to hope the best, is to beleue, that one abideth for euer in Purgatory? And wherfore hope they not rather, y^• he is in heauen, and so make an ende of all their Massing?

And what can this hoping hurte?

It hur­teth the pursses and goodes of the heires & executors of men, but if they haue so great a lust to say them,In the Popes Church no Penny no P [...] ­ter noster. to do good vnto the deade, why doe they not satisfie their luste without any taking of money? but yet for all this, I will for my part beleue, that he that dyeth in the fayth of Christ, goeth straight to heauen, and not into purgatory. And this it is to hope the best. What a crueltie is this of our shepeheards, who haue so euil an hope of our saluation, that they rather beleue we be stil in purgatory than in heauen: Alas this is euen a token that they know before hand, that the doctrine taught vs by them, is not able to bring vs to heauen. But if they fed their siely shepe with y^• holesome word of God,What shepe­herdes of sou­les should do. & saw them depart hence ful fed with faith in Christ, what should they nede, to giue so euil a iudge­ment of them? and beate their braynes about so ma­ny sacrifices, which bycause they neuer make an ende of, shewe an euident token that they neuer haue suffi­cient? And thus to procéede still without end, is an [Page] argument, to be holden for certayne, that in Purga­tory there is no redemption.

They haue for al that an end many tymes.

Yea when paying of money hath an end.

So would I haue sayd vnto thée. But sith thou art come to speak of Purgatorye, I pray thée tell me, whether thou hast séene it, and howe thou camest out of it, for as thou hast well sayde, the deade come neuer backe hither, to tell vs ought of it.Pasquine ne­ [...]er dyed.

I (to tell the truth) ne­uer dyed, but was chaunged from fleshe into a stone, so that, the name of Pasquine is yet aliue, how [...] woul­dest thou therefore, that I should haue séene Purgato­ry, when I tell thée I was in heauen? Exc [...]pte thou meanest by Purgatory, the bloude of Christ.

This is a playne heresie.

Euen so in dede say the Friers, but certainelye it is an heresie to say or beleue otherwise. Paule in his Epistle to the Heb [...]ues affirmeth,Hebr. 9. that it is impossible, that remissi­on or purging of sinnes shoulde be done with out bloud. In Purgatory there is no bloud but fire, ther­fore is it not possible,A good ar­gument to o­u [...]rth ow purgatory. that in Purgatory should be a­ny remission, or purging of sinnes. And that there is no bloude there, thou mayst be assured thereof by this, for they say, that there are soules without bodyes, and soules haue no bloud. But this haue they taken out of Poets fables,The opinion of Purgatory the­refore it [...]ueth. and haue fayned that there is a fire, the more to feare the mindes of the poore simple people, and chiefly such as be sicke of the Feuer, who féeling the heate of the Feuer, haue thought, that that heate of Purgatory is ten tymes greater, or else bycause those people that are towarde the North, are very colde, to the ende they should not so goe frosen to God, it was méete that they should first be heate a little. And there­fore [Page 26] was Saint Patrikes Purgatory deuised in Scot­land. The A [...]tho [...] would say in Ireland [...]. And it is yet to be sene in certaine old paintings, that the Angels plounge the soules into this fire, as it were into a baine, and thē forthwith hoyst them vp alofte, and many are séene with their armes stretched out, with their beardes, with the haires of their heade safe and sounde, and their whole body cleane,Purgatory fire can do no harme. whiche betokeneth, that that fire doth not burne. But this so terrible a fire, that made the whole worlde for feare to quake, while it was thus kindled, by good chaunce is nows quenched.

Would God it were so. But how knowest thou it?

As I came from Geneua, vpon the way I found an Inkeper, that tolde it me.

What did he tell thée.

Doest thou not remember that yere, in which the Secretaries of the newes sayd, that there woulde come so many raynes & flouds of water?

I remember it well, & it was in the yeare of our Lord 1524.

Euen so it was, doest thou remem­ber what prayers were made to God, that he woulde delyuer vs from so great distruction?

I remember it well.

God then being moued with compassion,Neptunus is fayned of the Poetes to be the God of the Sea. cōmaunded Neptunus to cary those waters into some other place. Neptune therefore sith he could not bestowe where he woulde, so great store of waters, which he had prepared for the drowning of the whole world,Purgatory fire was quē ­ched by Nep­tune. let a great part therof soake through into Purgatory, & quenched the fire in such sort, that sith that time hitherto, it neuer gaue no great flame. A great part therof remayned vtterly quenched. An­other part thereof eschewing the water as his contra­ry, retyred first to Cicilia, and after to Porzolo, where­as, after it had by little and little made his waye, it [Page] burst forth,Purgatory fire came frō Rome, and thither it will againe. with wonderful great hurt to the country, and nowe is in the way to goe to Rome, where first it began to burne.

Why then, will so wic­ked a fire assayle so holy a City?

He that with good reason returneth to his owne countrey, it is not to be sayd, that he doth assault it.

Wel, tell me, how did this straunge chaunce please the peo­ple of that heauen, of which thou speakest?

Thou couldest not beleue what griefe they féele there­by. They do nowe nought else, but stirre vp Vulcane to make such an other,Whence pur­gatory fire first came. for they knowe that from his Shoppe in the hill Atna, a certaine Abbot called O­dilus brought the first fire to Rome to saint Gregory. And if Vulcane make not such an other, they doubte, that so great rentes, as they receyue by this forge, wil all come to nought.

They haue good cause to doubt, for if it be knowen abrode that this fire is put out, what will he be, that wil take from his owne children and heires, to giue to these lazy lubbers? wh [...] will builde any Chappels? who will builde any Mo­nasteries? who will any more fat these Hogges? who wil haue any more estimatiō of them? I for my part, haue hytherto estéemed and reuerenced them, for feare onelye of this fire. For they made me beleue that it burneth euen the stones. But bycause they sée that mē are not afeard of this their imagined fire of Pur­gatory, they make them féele the fire of this worlde: and all to maintaine their tirannicall kingdome. Yet profite they little for all that, for those men whom they so burne liue in the fire, and of their ashes do increase and multiply infinite numbers. But leaue we this, for I am out of doubt thereof, and let vs returne to the Quéere where the Friers be, of whome thou spakest [Page 27] not long since. Sawest thou any of those Scapuchi­nes?

Thou meanest those y^• haue alredy be­gon to nestle thē selues in al y^• townes of Italy, Scapuchines and their garmentes. with filthy garmentes & [...]roked conditions, with their hoode drawen vp with a peake in the toppe, after suche fa­shion as the Diuill is painted * tempting Christ inMath. 4. the desert?

Those I aske for.

I sawe one or two, but they wente all alone, hated of al men,Scapuchines defenders of freewill. and they mumbled to them selues I wote not what, touching fréewil.

I beleue that, for in this towne, and in Padoa, I haue heard them at the Shrouetide, beat it into the heads of the Fackins. But what was the cause they were so hated?Faccini be such as the Porters of Billings gate. that garmēt of theirs shoulde giue them some credite, at the least with these poore whoresons.

They were hated, bicause that with their filthinesse, & with their wéede, they did so magnifie & set forth Ipocrisie, that they made some suspect, that therby they would whol­lye withdrawe the people from the other Religions, and allure thē to theirs.

Why then, doth enuy raigne among them?

Not enuy on­ly, but hatred also.Enuy and hatred raigne among Friers. [...]arn. Ochine the inuētor of Scapuchines. For they so deadly hate the inuen­tour of this order Barnardine Ochine, that it can not be spoken, séeing him now to be become a Rebell to this heauen, and that he doth so valiantly assaulte it, and layeth to the walles so ruinous a battery. And be­side that doest thou not remember, that I tolde thée, that it was the heauen of Popes & fooles, where those that are immortall are a great deale worse than those that be mortall? But thou shalt vnderstande me bet­ter, by that time, thou haue hearde the whole of me, point by pointe.

Followe on therefore I pray thée: for I take great pleasure to heare thée dis­couer [Page] so great wickednesse, and to shew the truth na­ked & plaine.

We left therefore the streate of the Friers: whereas all these sectes disputed toge­ther of their dyuers customes, Habits and Instituti­ons, that the Tower of Babilon was neuer fuller of confusion, and came to the second streate.

Tary I pray thée, doe they agrée so well together in this heauen?

They do all agrée in séeking to preferre them selues before Christ, in the rest they are as wyde as East and West.

I can not beleue that.

Canst thou not beleue it? O Marforius Marforius, thou takest little héede to thinges, I knowe wel that thou findest not this in the Comentaries of Gratian, nor Accursius, Gratianus & Accursius. but where­fore serue so many Churches, so manye sacrifices, so manye Frieries, so many Monasteries, made in the honour of this Saint, and of that, but to banishe by little and little the memory of Christ out of the world? The increasing of these Frieries,The increase of the Frieries hath dimini­shed the faith. The order of of the Virgi­nes. hath bene the dimi­nishing of the Christian fayth.

That is like inough to be true, out of doubt. But procéede on a little, and tell me what followeth.

Then commeth the order where the Urrgines be, where are to be séene many thousandes of foolishe women.

Why, and are the women there aboue men, and in a more worthy place?

It was re­quisite that they shoulde be put in betwene the Mon­kes and the Confessours, for the Monkes teach them how to put the diuel into Hel, how he must be fought with, and the maner how to fall into a traunce. And on the other side the confessours, vnderstand all that they doe in sight, thought, worde, and dede, and then laying their handes on their heade, and the displing [Page 28] rodde, as the penitentiaries here do they assoyle them.

I vnderstande thée well. They are put in the mids bycause they shall not runne away, but this séemeth to me very straunge, that in the Letany they are last, and here they are aboue the Monkes,A wonderful disordered heauen. vnder whom (me thinketh) they would do much better.

The fault is in the bookes and not in the mat­ter, and he that made the Letany knew not al, for then woulde he not haue set the women in the rerewarde, for they ought to be kept and not to kepe other, nor let it not séeme straunge to thée, that they be aboue the Monkes, for the Monkes can bring them vnder them when they list?

Are they all after one fa­shion? haue they al one kinde of garment?

So full of diuersitie is this diuision or Quéere; as the rest are,The sundry sortes of Nū ­nes. for asmuche as some are called Celestines, some Clarines, some Vastalines, some Martirines, some Brigidines. Other are called Barbarines, other Lucianes, other Marianes, other Marthanes, other Be­nedictanes, other Franciscanes, other Dominicanes, o­ther A [...]gustinianes, other Carmilitanes, Putanies be those Nūnes that we call the greene Friers on strawbery banke. and some Pu­tanies also.

What did they?

First of all they gloryed in their goodly title, and next they reioyced, that they had drawen into that opinion the chiefest part of Christēdom. And of this most espe­cially they boasted The opinion of virginity what it hath done., that the opinion of Uirginitye: or to say better, the hatered of Matrimony, had builded from the foundations vpwarde, a great parte of that heauen.

They diseeyued them selues ne­uer a deale; for if the Prelates and Priestes, had not forborne wyues, the Popishe Religion shoulde long sithens haue bene broughte to nothing, for the mul­tiplying of their children woulde haue deuided their [Page] reuenewes into many portions. If thou wilt sée how much mariages are hurtfull to this Church, take ex­ample of that,If the Pope giue such gubbes away he wil leaue Saint Peter but a leane patrimony. which this other yeare Pope Paule did when he maried his sonnes sonne to the Emperours bastard daughter, which he solde to the Pope. If all Popes were of that minde, and then begat children a­pase, it woulde sone come to passe with them as it did with the Marquises of Lunigiana, who in the end had neyther Marchandize, money, nor lande, lefte them, and therefore they passe, not for any other thing than the commodities of the fleshe, and hate Matrimony as a verye plague.

Thou vnderstandest it Marforius and so doe I.

But I maruell much, how there can be so many Uirgines, this being so rare a gift, and most of all sith it is lost by the desire only.Virginity lost by desire. For vvho soeuer loketh on a womā to lust after hir, hath commtited adultrye vvith hir already in his heart.

The matter is, that they take not virginity after this sorte,Math. 5. but for a virgin they meane hir that is without a husband,Such were the virgins of strawbery banke. The Popes Virgin [...]s. or him that is without a wife.

By this meaning Fornicatours and single women also may be Uirgines, ah?

Yea out of doubt, so that they sweare neuer to mary, & remember that if they lyue not chaste, they may take a whore secretly.

I doubt least by this opiniō, many are become dishonest virgines. But sawest thou there Saint Katherine, Saint Bar­bara, Saint Iulian.

I saw them, and they were very full of cursed ambition.

What is that I heare thée say? are those virgines ambitious, that dispysed all thinges of the worlde?

A man may reade in some storyes that they dispysed all thinges, and I thinke it well done to beleue godly, [Page 29] and learned hystories, whereas a man may not sée a­ny thing that is superstitious or wicked, but there, (well I wote) they haue chaunged both countenance and conditions.What the saintes of this heauē can do. Saint Katherine promised to him that hath in remembraunce hir passion, to deliuer him from lightnings and tempestes. And Saint Barbara, to make him in the Warres kill his enimyes.

Diddest thou neuer heare that fine toy, of this Saint Barbara, how she gaue a gifte to certaine soul­diers that had fasted on. Saturday in the honour of hir,Bylike they had no meat, souldiers fast else seldome. that they might with most stout courage fall vnto the spoyle? There are also many deuout souldiers, that beare hir painted on their Harquebushes, and v­pon their Morions, or vpon their Curasses, that she may defende them from Gunshot.

O Mar­forius howe many tymes haue I maruelledA maruell, that Saintes would hurt men. (and yet could I neuer beleue it) that the good Saints had any desire to do hurt to men: and that they had this am­bition, to desire to get credite in the worlde, and to do it by these meanes. For I knewe it was the foolishest thing in the worlde, to beleue that that which they es­chewed, while they were subiecte to the affections of the fleshe, they seke so nowe, that they are out of bon­dage of those affections. If we will please Saintes,How to please true Saintes. that are the true Saintes in dede, let vs do that, which they (while they liued) commaunded vs, that is to say, let vs loue God, and let vs vse charitye to our neigh­bour: for doing otherwise, we do highly offend them,How to dis­please them▪ that is to say, we make them ambitious, desirous of reuenge, cruell and proude, the which thinges in their life time they so muche abhorred and hated. As might right well be séene in their storyes, if the Friers by their presumption, and for that cursed rage of gaine, [Page] had not corrupted and peruerted the same. And there­fore let vs séeke to Christ onelye:Christ onely is to be folo­wed. for he onelye is the Iohn. 14.vvay, he onely is the truth, he onely is the life, he on­ly is theIohn. 9.light, he onely is theMath. 23.Master, he onelye is theIohn. 10.shepherde, he onely is theHebr. 10.hye Priest, he onely is the1. Iohn. 2.Aduocate, he onely is our fullEphe. 1.redemption and saluation. Let vs therefore sollowe Christ onely, forsaking those things that are the causes of so many inconueniences. For we sée right well, that bycause we follow not Christ only, there are sprong vp so ma­ny sundry sectes, so great diuersities of rites & custo­mes, so many superstitions which haue led away the Christians so far from Christ, y^• of his,The fruit of deuotion to Saintes. they haue now no more but onelye the bare name, and this is the fruite that is gotten by deuotion to Saintes.

To returne therefore to the purpose, this vir­ginitye, is it not so holy a thing, as the worlde taketh it to be?

Thou hast heard that it hath bene the foundation of a great part of this heauen.

I haue heard so, and for ought that I haue heard, I sée also,Vices clad with vertues clothes. that vices are clad with the clothes of those vertues that are their contraryes, for I sée that forni­cation, is called virginity. But much I maruell that Saint Ierome did so much extoll this virginitye, that he durst make this conclusion. It is good for a man to be without a wyfe, therefore is it euill for a man to haue a wife. And in an other place he sayth: that God hath promised heauen to virginitye, and the earth to them that be maried.Saint Ierome spotted with the heresie of Mo [...]ta [...]us.

This is euen the ful and flat heresie of Montanus. The which, Ierome fo­loweth also in condempning altogether the seconde mariage, as is to be séene, in that he wryteth to Ioui­nian, where he affirmeth, that the seconde and thirde [Page 30] mariage is naught, and where he taketh holde for the confirmatiō of his opinion, he wresteth the scriptures to his meaning, without purpose, as a man may sée in the Epistle that he wryteth, to that gentlewoman of Rome, who bycause she was a wyddow, and but a yong woman, to obey Saint Paules councel was ma­ryed agayne: the beginning of his Epistle is this. Thou art become shamelesse, and hast put on the face of a Harlot.

Me thinketh therefore that his workes shoulde haue shewed with great aduise­ment, what is the cause, that being a man of so great learning, he taketh things so cleane contrary, & that he is so stubburne in his opinions?

What? bycause he was a man,Dalmatian [...] obstinate peo­ple. and a Dalmatian.

Thou meanest somewhat, in that thou callest him a Dalmatian.

I meane then, that Nation is most obstinat, in that which once entreth into their braynes, and setteth nought by the opinion of al other Nations. Knowest thou not that olde frende of Cardi­nal Chietti, that commeth oft times to sée him?

Ha, yes yes, I know him, he speaketh Gréeke very oft, bycause he would séeme to vnderstand much of it.

That is he. When this man talketh of any thing of his owne, thou neuer heardest a prou­der man, nor a greater boaster speake, nor that more disprayseth all thinges that come not from him selfe, or from his countrymen, nor a more stubburne in his opinions: and therefore maruel not at Saint Ierome, for they are all suche kinde of men.

This also maketh me much more to maruel, that these men haue so much extolled this virginity, sith there is not in all the holy scripture, any one precept that forbid­deth to any kinde of men mariage, and where there [Page] are so many places that comaunde and commende it. For by this meane, God would that the world should be maintayned. And this was defended by the good Byshop Paphnutus in the councell of Neece, Paphnutius defendeth Priestes ma­riage. against thrée hundreth Byshops.This heauen hath many Virgines but no Maries.

I beleue that it is for the Uirgin Maries sake, that these men woulde haue so many Virgins.

Yet can they not for all that, bring to passe, that there should be many Maries, the which was verely a Phoenix.

I like it well that thou beginnest to vnderstande the matter.

Sée Pasquine, I haue done as Thelemachus did in Homer, who sayde, that by other mennes wyse communications, he had learned much.

I muche reioyce, that this my talke hath brought forth so good fruit in thée.

And I reioyce much more thereat. But to returne to the pur­pose of this virginitie, I say, that the Uirgine Mary neuer made accoumpt that hir Uirginity should be of any merite towards God, for she had determined, to haue a husband, & would before haue had him, but that the Aungell of the Lorde declared to hir that high and heauenly determination, that God had made concer­ning hir. And God had regarde not to hir virginity, but to hir humility, as may be séene in hir owne song, where she sayde.Luc. 1. He hath regarded the lovvlines [...]e of his handemayde, and sayde not, to the virginity of his handemayd, for lowlinesse is it that pleaseth the Lord, and that is by him commaunded vnto vs, whyles he sayeth.Math. 11. Learne of me, for I am meeke and lovvlye of heart, and sayde not,Humilitie preferred before virginitie. learne of me, for I am a Uirgin. And if thou wilt sée this more clerelye, loke that place of the Gospell, where the Disciples sought to knowe who shoulde be greatest in the kingdome of heauen. [Page 31] Christ set there in the middest among them a childe,Christ techeth humilitie by the example of a childe. saying: That they must humble them selues and be­come as that childe, if they vvould enter into the kingdome of heauen. And if he had made so great an accoumpt of Uirginity,Math. 18. or had knowen it to be so ne­cessary, he might haue sayd,Luc. 18. that they must be virgins as that childe was, if they would enter into the king­dome of heauen. And see moreouer, the greatest prayse that is giuen to Christ, is, for that, (as the Scripture sayth) He made him selfe of no reputation,Phil. 2.taking vp­pon him the shape of a seruaunt: and not bycause he was a Uirgin. But herevpon the Lordes saying put­teth me in some little doubt,Math. 19. which sayth. That some do make them selues chast for the kingdome of God.

Let not this trouble thee,Chastity and what it is. for this worde to make chaste in that place, meaneth nothing else, but to take away euery euill affection, not onely of flesh­ly luste, but also of all maner euill desire therto. As also where he sayeth.Math. 5. That thou shouldest pull out thine eye, a [...]d cut of thine hande, he meaneth nothing else, but that thou shouldest take from thée that vice, which ouercommeth thée, by meanes of that member of thine. And the gift of chastity,Math. 19.is not giuen to euery one that vvoulde haue it, but to vvhome God vvill. This therfore ought not to be giuen as a commaūde­ment, but they that are called thervnto by god, ought to vse this as a councell.Origen mis­tooke Christes wordes.

Why then O­rigen much mistooke this matter, in cutting away his instrumēt of generation.

Without doubt he should better and more holily haue made him selfe chast, if he had asswaged his hote desire with an honest wife of his owne. For this thing God commaundeth vs, and not the other.

But he should not [Page] haue bene chaste after that sorte.

Nay ra­ther he could not be chaste, after the other sorte, as Lo­gitians define,Whether Eu­nuches be cha [...]te or no. who cal not the Eunuches chast, bicause they can do nothing. But that he hauing a wife might also be chaste, the booke of wisedome doth playnely de­declare, where he sayth:Sap. 4. O, hovv faire is a chaste ge­neration vvith vertue. Lo, he calleth chaste, the gene­ration of children. And to y^e Hebrues, thus it is writ­ten: Mariage is honourable among all men, The prayse of mariage. and the bed vndefiled, but Fornicators & adulterers, God vvil iudge.Hebr. 13.

I woulde it were Gods will that thou mightest be a Preacher to the worlde but euen a fewe yeares, then shoulde it not be halfe so blinde as it is.

Such was Gods pleasure, that those that haue bene delited with lyes, and foolishe toyes, should in lyes and foolishe toyes be drowned & buried.

Sithe we are entered into this talke, I woulde haue thée tell me, what it is, that hath decey­ued so many great learned mē, to set forth so careful­ly this virgintiy:A learned Byshoppe of Fraunce.

A French Byshop, full of great learning, of great iudgement, and of muche godlynesse, opened myne eyes in this poynt that thou nowe demaundest, saying: that very many errours are sprong vp by the deceytfulnesse of such as to curi­ouslye sifte the scriptures, who finding in the same, some one thing in especiall, or that particulerly hath bene commaunded to one man, haue gone aboute to make it generall,Math. 19. as this: If thou vvilt be perfect, goe and sell all that thou hast,Marc. 10.and giue it to the poore. Here Christ speaketh to that yong man,Luc. 18. that boasted that he had alwayes kept the commaundements, and gyueth this lesson particulerly to him, to beate downe [...]lat his presumption, in that he sayde, he had alwayes [Page 32] kept the commaundements of God. And it is no ge­nerall precept, for Christ denyeth not, but that a man may serue God hauing ryches,Not the riches but the abuse of it spoken a­gainst. for a man may sée in the olde Testament, that infinite Patriarkes and Kinges, and other seruaunts of God were excéeding ryche. Likewise where Saint Paule sayth to the Co­rinthians: not commaunding, but saying his aduise, and speaking condicionally:1. Cor. 7. That it is good for a mā for the present necessity, to be vvithout a vvife. These men haue made this place generall, and yet Saint Paule sayth, for the present necessity,The reason why Paule counselled to so beare a wyfe. bycause that thē the Christians were dryuen to and fro, and if they had wyues and children, they had more greater charge to cary aboute after them, than if they were vnmaryed. And thus sayth he, bycause of y^• afflictions of the fl [...]sh, and the persecutions of those tymes, and not for any other cause. And therefore sayde he afterward,1. Cor. 7. that he spake for their profite, not to tangle thē in a snare. Many other places there are in the Scripture,A great ab­surditie. which albeit they be most speciall, these fellowes haue gone about to make most generall. And euen so is it of vir­ginitie, the which being a gifte graunted to very f [...]we by especiall priuiledge from [...]od, they notwithstan­ding, haue sought to haue it of euery man, as a thing generall, bycause they are not of capacitie to vnder­stande that saying as Christ spake it.Math. 19. [...]ut these pre­cepts are particuler, as that was of Abraham to kyll his sonne.An example of Abraham to kill hys Sonne. And as it shou [...]e be a great absurditie to go about to make that precept generall: euen so is it no lesse absurditie to commaund and commende this other also.

This discourse of thy [...]yshop pleaseth me very well:Gene. 32. he is [...]arre differ [...]nt from the Duncysh Sorbones, of Paris, who say if they had saint [Page] Paule in their handes they would burne him. I per­ceyue that the light of Gods truth burneth in y^• heart of this Bishop.The order or Queere of wi­dowes. But sawest thou there neuer a widow? was there not Iudith of Sarepta, * Anne the Prophe­tesse, that so openly confessed Christ in Saint Lukes Gospell,Luc. 2. nor that other that † offered the two Mytes, and was therfore so much cōmended of Christ?

Marc. 12. There was none of all these there, for they (as it was tolde me) were in the other heauen. But in this heauen were some that none durst be so bolde to name them, and they were of those, that saint Paule calleth idle, [...]. Tim. 5. euer babling, busy bodyes, and speaking things which are not comely.

And why are they in this heauen?

The Aungell tolde me bycause some of them had founded Monaste­ries, and erected sundry sectes, and enryched the pla­ces, and became Nonnes: and especiallye Englishe women, Hungarians, Dutch women, and Frenche women. Of Italians and Spanyardes there were ve­ry fewe. Albeit there be in our dayes of countrey wo­men of Italy, that for superstition séeke to passe those of olde tyme.

Who be these?

Thou must nedes haue hearde speaking of them: for that they séeke to be knowen for Saintes, méete in very dede for this heauē: hast thou neuer heard speak of the Countesse of Vastalla? Vastalla erec­teth a newe sect of Religi­ous people. and of hir that causeth hir selfe to be called the holye Ladye Saint Camill?

Yes, but I neuer tooke héede therevnto, what be they?

I can not tell what they be. For they do that which Paule doth disalowe, being idle, gadding from Citie to Citie, and from house to house. But yet hath Vastalla founded hir sect in Mil­laine. Camilla was of late in Pauia, and nowe is in [Page 33] Venice, for into the déepe waters,Where the caraine is, thither do the Eagles resort. the great fishe al­wayes goeth.

Tell me somewhat of the same Vastalla, whether she bring forth any monsters.

Thou sayest very well, for who soeuer for­saketh God & nature, can doe nothing but bring forth monsters.The storie of Vastalla. Vastalla re­uiueth the heresie of the Adami [...]es. This Vastalla being a wydowe, rich, weal­thy, and of great byrth, and therefore called a Coun­tesse, hath ordayned a secte of women and men, who must séeke to atta [...]e to that puritie & [...]nocencie that was in Adam and Eue, before they offended, and to be such as can sinne no more, and to be without all fée­ling of affectiō or passion, and the mean to come here­vnto, is long prayers, muche silence, continuall fas­tings, and to be shriuen euery day, shewing and ope­ning what soeuer it be eyther good or euill, that they haue done, sayd, or thought, without leauing behinde any iote or tittle of any thing. Moreouer they muste receyue their maker euery eight dayes, and they call their maker that rounde Cake in the which they saye is the body of Christ: which is in heauen.

Alas what sayest thou Pasquine, beleuest thou not, that the consecrate breade is the body of Christ?

And doest not thou beleue that Christ is very man?

Yes, I doe beleue it, and that he was borne of the Uirgin Mary, and that he suffered, dyed, and was buried.

Beleuest thou not that he afterwarde rose againe, very man, and that he ascended into heauen, bearing with him his body full and whole, and that he shall come thence (in the same fashion, that he was sene go hence) to iudge the quicke and the deade?

Yea, I doe beleue it, and do looke for it.

If thou beleue this, where­fore wilte thou beleue, that that breade is the [...]ody of [...] [Page] what gladnesse hast thou brought me vnto. I do right well beleue, that thou haste bene in heauen, and haste brought from thence, these so high mysteries. For this knowledge is not of men, but heauenly. Now haue I let go the Woulfe, and by thy labour and dil [...]gence, a [...] come out of great daunger, wherfore I giue [...]od thankes without ende.

Al that which this secte of the Countesse of Vastalla, and all the Popishe route else,The papistes vnderstand not Christes Institution. do goe about concerning this Sacrament, bycause (they are so farre wyde frō the institution of Christ, & from the truth) al that I say is nothing else but that which the scripture calleth, the cursed Idol, & abhomination.

And I was euen nowe thinking therevpon, and muche I maruelled howe it shoulde come to passe, that some whiche vnderstande these thinges, shoulde remayne still blinded, in the er­rour of these so wicked Sacrifices, and be partakers of them, the which (surely) can not be without moste haynous offence against god.

What man, some doth it for feare,Ma [...]y lette [...] therebe to kepe mē back from God. some for vaineglory, and other some for couetousnesse, and deceytes of the diuel. But yet can the Lord kepe safe those that he his.

I perceyue that thou sayest truth, and I see that this secte of Vastalla, and suche like, become so muche the worse, as that they doe the oftner vse that Sacra­meat, and other wicked Sacryfices. But is there any thing else to be sayde of hir?

The best is yet behinde.

What is that?

When she will knowe, whether any be come to the purposed pointe of this puritie, this way she try­eth it,Proper deui­ses to bring men to puri­t [...]e. she causeth him to weare about [...] his nocke, or vpon his heade, or in some other notable place of his body, some thing of much shame, as a Frying panne, [Page 35] or a Kettle, or else the hornes of an O [...]e, or of a Ram, or else his garments with the wrong side outwarde, or otherwise euill fauouredly put on, & sometyme wrap­ped in a Nette, or halfe naked, and somewhile altoge­ther naked, be it mā or woman. And so doth she make them go through the City, for sayth she, our firste fa­thers were in the beginning naked, and afterwarde did couer their dishonest partes with leaues, and then went halfe clothed, and last of al, (as euill did encrease together with their shame) they did wholly couer thē selues with beastes skinnes. Who so euer doth there­fore desire to returne to that former sincerity, muste come backewarde by the selfe same degrées, and from clothing him selfe, must returne to nakednesse, and if of these things they be not ashamed, then is it a mani­fest token▪ that they be already in Paradice.

Oh what a shamefull thing is this.

Hearke, there is worse yet. Then putte they Adam and E [...]e in the night season alone in a bedde,Horsses and mares turned loose togither. who if they eate not of the Fruites, if they speake not toge­ther thereof, nor haue thereof no maner of thinking, for as muche as of euerye thing they are afterwarde strayghtly examined, and muste of force confesse it, then are they alredy become Aungels,A very chast religion. & made Gods. But if they eate of the fruites, (for that, for the moste part, she that went to bed a [...]irgin, arose from thence spedde with hir errande) then are they driuen out of Paradice, and condempned to perp [...]tuall torments.

I knowe not who deserueth herein moste blame, whether they that doe this, or the Princes, or Magistrates, that winke at it.

The Ma­gistrates of Christendom in these dayes, neyther con­dempne nor persecute any, but such as séeke the h [...] ­nour [Page] of Christ, that giue all prayse to Christ, & that maintaine the Gospell of Christ.

Alas a­las, thou sayest euen the truth, oh how great accompt shall they make to Christ, God lighten them if it be his pleasure.The rule of Camilla Pallauicine. But tel me somewhat of that Lady saint Camilla. Wherefore is she called both a Lady and a Saint?

Lady for hir pride, and Saint for hir Ipocrisie, for she was not contented to be of the house of the Pallauicini, the which thou knowest is fa­mous & noble in Italy, but would by hir cursed pryde, make hir self a mōgrel of the bloud Royal of Fraunce, and sayth, that she is the daughter of king Levves the thirde.

And how?

She said, that the King making warre in Italy, An honest woman to make her mo­ther a whore. had then to doe with hir mother, and so was she begotten.

That was a terrible warre in dede, but yet was there no bloude shedde. And doth she then reioyce in this goodly tytle, to be a bastarde, the daughter of a whore, both borne and begotten in adultery.

Yea out of doubt, but not without cause, for thou mayst sée that that good fellowe of Millaine in his Paradoxes, sheweth that it is better to be a bastarde, than lawful­ly begotten.Better to be a Bastard than lawfully be­gotten.

Oh howe muche it displea­seth me, to sée how goodly wittes are occupyed about vaine vnprofitable vile and shameful exercises, which else might better be imployed in better studyes. But this Camilla was a bastarde before that the Authour of those Paradoxes was borne. But what lyfe leadeth shée?

Mary shée gaddeth now here, nowe there, vnder colour of Religion.

Of what Religion?A good reli­gion of her owne making

Of a Religion of none other bodyes making but of hir owne. She hath with hir thrée women of the selfe same Ipocrisie, and supersti­tion. [Page 36] Shée abideth not in any Monasterye, as Non­nes doe, but dwelleth in a priuate house, and chaun­geth it often (such is hir womanishe ficklenesse) & shée haunteth places pleasant and solitary, albeit she haue no greater pleasure in any one thing, than in the cō ­uersation of men, as may well be seene, for his house is continually haunted with women, and gentlemen and Lordes, as if it were the house of a conning Doc­tor, or rather of the Oracle of the City.The great blindness of the worlde. And the world is such, as more easely doth suffer it self to be drawen away, with the gay glistering of superstitiō, and fay­ned holinesse, than with the true and humble religion. Sometyme shée shutteth vp hir selfe in a Chamber, so straight and so darke (which shée often vsed at Pauia,) that it rather séemeth a graue than a Chamber, and this she sayth, she is the more familiarly to enioy the cōpany of Angels. On the Fryday, she wil not speake to any man, nor let hir selfe be séene, for she sayth, that on that day she remayneth altogether occupied in the contemplation of the Crosse of Christ, and of his nay­les, through the meditation whereof, shée sayth,Camilla hath the fyue woundes that Christ had. No Ipocrisie. shée hath receyued the markes of the fiue woūds of Christ.

Why then, she doth counterfaite Saint Katherine of Siena, and Saint Fraunces?

Nay, rather is shée Saint Fraunces wife, for shée lo­ueth his Friers as hir owne children, and preferreth his secte before all other, and goeth also cladde in his wéede. And moreouer, she hath hir hands and hir féete, wrapped in cloutes, that the eyes of sinners shoulde not sée those holy woundes, which are onely méete to be seéne of Aungels.

Are they woundes in good sadnesse?

I can not tell, but I wil shewe thée what (merily and paraduenture truly) an [Page] Ambassadour of the French Kings sayde, talking one day of this woman, and of hir woundes. There was one that sayde, he maruelled that shee kept them co­uered.A wittie say­ing of a frenche Am­bassadour. Maruell not at all quoth he) for things that are filthy, ought to be kept conered, & paraduenture they are the plaine markes of the French Pockes, whiche disease is wonte to breake out in these places, albeit sometime in the foreheade, but not altogether, nor af­ter one sorte to all men.

What aunswe­red that other good fellow?

He was blank, he knew not what to say.

No more could I tell what to say, if I sayde not, that those woundes are made by arte of man, or the crafte of the Diuel, as happened in Berna a towne of the Svvychers, where certaine Dominicane Friers did y^e like to a poore sim­ple soule.

Thou sayest truth, for I hearde speak of it, whē y^e newes therof was brought to Pope Iulie the seconde, albeit this be also written in a faith­full story, and yet escaped they not vnpunished there­fore,Foure Fryers burnte at Berne for Ipo­crisie. for foure of thē which were priuy to this, and o­ther so great sacrileges were burnt aliue. And this was before y^• Berne had the vnderstanding of the gos­pel. But those Lords of Berne haue bene alwayes eni­mies to deceytés, and to these knauish deuises, whom if the Venetians would follow, and not suffer so ma­ny false miracles, and other deceytes, of gredy Ipocri­tes, as the body of saint Roch, which is made of toawe and of Chaulke, & of so many Ladyes y^• for gredinesse of gaine,Gredynesse of gayne wor­keth miracles are made to worke myracles, not only they, but y^• rest of Italy, & the other parts of Christendome would open their eyes, and espy out so many & so ma­nifest deceytes, that who so euer doth not finde them out, is well worthy of all blame and shall in the ende [Page 37] be punished therefore of Christ. But to returne to the woundes of Camilla, I haue heard say, that being de­sired to supper by certaine Nonnes, in the euening after supper, when she should goe to bed, she asked for a little Malmesey, & when a woman of the Monastery had giuen hir some, being desirous to knowe what she would do with it, she stoode and looked throughe a little hole of the dore, and sawe,Marke well. that she cast the Mal­mesey droppe by droppe, vpon hir hande, and she gro­ned, but she coulde sée nothing else.

By like she did kepe those woundes open, with this sub­tile deuise, & euen so wyth the same subtile deuise, did make them at the first.

I could say also of hir, howe she entermedleth hir selfe, with making of Mariages, moued thereto for the zeale of hir pursse,Camilla a broker of ma­riages. for she will be well payed. Then vseth shée many o­ther brybing fetches, there are many presents sent vn­to hir, and she sendeth them couertly to sell, she play­eth the Phisitian,Camilla v­seth many fine shystes and all for money. and asketh this thing & that thing, to make Medicines withall, & then sendeth the things to sell, as happened to a poore woman for a great ma­ny poundes of waxe. And such one as thou hearest is shée, and yet is accompted a most holy one.

God be he that prouide therefore, for of men I sée not howe remedy may be hoped for. But if there be no­thing else to be sayde of this deuision or Quéere, goe on forwarde.The Quere or order of the confessours.

In the thirde streate, were the confessours. This was a great route, and wonder­fully out of frame, full of rytes, & different customes. Some had thrée Crownes, some Myters, some Hats, some were shauen, some couered faced, some laie bro­thers in gray coates, some blewe, some redde, some white, some blacke, some gray, some hooded like the [Page] Scapuchines, some of the order that Chietti made. All had some sundry signe of Ipocrisie,Chiettines are the rankest I­pocrites. & most of all those Chiettines.

What a thing is this, that they euer speake of Christ, and neuer séeke the honour of Christ, but of them selues?

I haue al­wayes séene, that these that haue Christ still in their mouthes, neuer haue him in their heartes.

It is true. But what made these men with so many sundry liueryes.The Gods sore troubled.

I can not tell thée of cer­tainty, but for as much as I perceyued, they were al­so in greate trouble.

And wherefore?

Least they should be forsaken of their de­uout Clients.

What is that I heare thée say? why are these Gods afeard of men?

If they be made and inuented by men, wilte thou not, that by them they may be also ouerthrowen? of these Gods speaketh the Scripture, where he sayth: They are the vvorke of mens handes, Psal. 115. and therefore are they afeard.

Wherefore are they called Con­fessours.

Bycause they haue spent al their whole life in hearing confessions,wherefore they are called conf [...]ssours. and other mennes sinnes, or in confessing them selues to other as com­monly they do.

Thou laughest Pasquine?

I laugh in dede, but yet it followeth not, but that I say the truth.

I thought they had bene called Confessours, bycause they should con­fesse Christ,What true confessours should doe. False con­fessours. with their tongues, with their lyues, and with their deathes.

Thou art deceyued, vnlesse thou wouldst say, that to confesse, y^• the Pope is the head of the Church, and that saluatiō is gotten by mannes merites, is to confesse Christ. But that is not in the Crede or Simbole of the Apostles.

As farre as I can perceiue, this is rather a de­nying [Page 38] of Christ, than a confessing of him. But me thinke thou makest a mocke of confession, whiche is a thing very holy and necessary.

Doe I make a mock of confession? Nay I confesse my selfe very of­ten tymes, didst not thou say euen now, that they are true cōfessours, that confesse Christ, and professe him with their words, and with their déedes?

Yes, and I thought that for this cause they had bene called confessours. For of this confession I think our maister Christ spake, when he sayd: He that shal con­fesse me before men,Math. 10.him vvill I also confesse before my father vvhich is in heauen. Math. 5. And so let your light shine before men, that they may see your good vvor­kes and glorisie your father vvhich is in heauen. But I aske thée of that other confession, that is called Sa­cramentall, and Auriculer, Eare confes­sion. which is made to man, and of him, is had the absolution of sinnes.

I shoulde stande to long, to aunswere thée to all that that thou demaundest me. But of this I will in fewe words put thée out of doubt. Thinkst thou that Christ was perfectly wise?

I beleue, that he was most wise,Luc. 11. & very wisedome it selfe.

Thin­kest thou, that his doctrine was absolute and perfect?

I beleue it, for he was God, vnto whome can be ascribed none imperfection, without great and heynous offence.

Doth there wante any thing in his doctrine, deliuered vnto vs by his Apo­stels?

Nothing, that is necessary to liue well, and to goe to euerlasting life.Eare confes­soures not spo­ken of in th [...] scripture.

Syth he hath therfore, made no maner mention of this eare confession, it is not necessary for our blessed life.

This is it that I woulde so faine knowe: for many affirme that it is allowed by Gods worde, and [Page] many deny it.

Thou must nedes knowe what thine owne doctour Panormitanus sayth concer­ning it, to whom I am sure, thou giuest credite.

He sayth playnely,Panormita­nus Iudge­ment of eare confession. that such confession is not founde in all the holy scripture, nor that the Greekes were therfore by our Churches neuer holdē as Here­tiques, who deny the same, and wil none of it, and yet doth the Pope condempne and holde him as an Here­tique, that refuseth and denieth it to be commaunded by Gods lawe.

Oh maruell not at that, for he condēneth also him that confesseth: That christ is our onelyLuc. 2.Sauiour,1. Iohn. 4.our onely redemer, and our1. Iohn. 2.Aduocate, thā the which, there is nothing more clere in the holy Scriptures. It is no maruel therfore if he condempne such and accompt them as Heretiques, as will not receiue mennes deuises, in steade of Goddes lawes.

Yet it semeth, that it is cōmaun­ded in the holy Scriptures, most chiefly in that place (leauing al other aside, which in dede do little approue it,) where heMath. 16. giueth to the Church,A wonder­full clubstan­ciall reason of the papistes y^e power to binde and to loose, and to remit and retaine sinnes. And how shall the Church remitte sinne, say they, if the sinner tel it hir not? and how shal she loose him, if she sée him not bounde?

IfMarc. 16. thou beleue the gospel,What it is to bind and lose syanes. thy sinnes are forgiuen thée, thou art assoyled, if thou beleue not, thou art bounde, andIohn. 8. and art in sinne, & the seruaunt of sinne, and of the Diuell. And this it is to binde and loose, to remit and retayne sinnes, and it nedeth not that other know thy sinnes. It is mough for thée, that thou knowe them and consider them, and that thou féele the waight of thine owne sinfull na­ture. Lo, we reade that the woman that sinned, was sorowfull within hir selfe, and she heard that healthful [Page 39] saying, Thy sinnes are forgiuen thee, nor we doe not reade,A comforta­ble example for euery sinner. that she reckened vp hir sinnes. Haue thou also thy sinnes in defiance, and beleue the gospel, and thou art assoyled.

And Saint Iames sayth, not he? Knovvledge your faultes one to another,Iac. 5.& pray one for an other, that you may be healed?

This whiche Saint Iames speaketh of here, is that which Christ our master had before spokē, of brother­ly loue, that if we haue offended any man, we ought to seke to reconcile our selues to him, and this can not be done, except he that offendeth, do confesse to the o­ther, that he hath done amisse.The true confession. This is the true confes­sion and reconciliatiō which among Christians, from one to another ought to be done, the which Christ ac­cepteth before all sacrifices, and euery other holy act. We néede not talke with Sir Iohn of the matter, he must be none that is offended. And if thou haue offen­ded God only, and not man,Luc. 7. confesse thy fault to God onely, who onely forgiueth sinnes, and health the in­firmities of the soule. It is not therefore euill done, if thou aske councell for the infirmities of thy soule, at some man that is honest, and kn [...]weth the truth, as thou docst for the infirmities of thy body, mingling therefore with it no maner superstition, and shall we (leauing the holsome coūcels, & precepts of Christ) consent to a confession,Confession better called confusion. that ought rather to be called confusion, deuised by the shau [...]ngs, to knowe the se­crets of the world, and so with [...]cc [...]ytfulnesse to bring the world vnder their féete,Confession wherefore it was inuented. as they haue done already. But Christ shall as leaues, confounde all inuentions of men,Psal. 1. and ouerthrowe the deuisers thereof with the breath of his mouth.

Theu haste deliue­red me out of a maruellous scruple, that did sore holde [Page] my minde entangled.

Shall I therefore speake of the other, sith thou haste vnderstande what these confessours be?

I pray the hearti­ly.

In the same Quéere, sawe I also Doc­tours mingled with cōfessours.The order or quere of Doc­tours.

I would that thou wouldst name them vnto me.

I doe euen scarcely remember thē, so dyuers were they, and so mad headed. Some were called Magistri nostri, some Nostri magistri, some Rabini, some Scotistae, o­ther Illuminati, other Cherubici, other Seraphici, some Extatici, and some also Apostatici, and Lunatici, and their seuerall names were, Holcot, Briccot, Triccot, Scot, Capriuol, Zabarel, Lira, Hoccam, Barbazza, all obscure, but when the worlde was ignorant accomp­ted most excellently learned.

Out vpon thée, what Doctors are these? thou makest me afeard, onely to name them. But what did they.

All were labouring, to enrich that heauen, with both the Testamentes. There sawe I Saint Gregory with other Popes,The olde testamēt more profitable than the newe. who had hyred fouretene Porters, to cause the tenthes of the olde Testament to be caryed into the newe Testament, and in like maner the My­ters, the Bendes or Fillets, the Sacrifices, y^• offrings, the Perfumes, the Lightes, and almost all the things that were in the Iewes Temple.

And did they not also bring the wyues of y^e holy Fathers?

No, but their handmaydes. For they sayd that wyues belonged not to the newe Testament.

Therefore haue they nowe for this cause,Priestes may kepe whores but mary no wyues. in steade of wyues, whores?

Yea, for they say, that it is not lawfull for them to haue wyues, but if they haue whores and bardasses, it maketh no mat­ter.

And what if any of them were ma­ried?

They woulde persecute him, they woulde kill him, they woulde vndoe him.

But for keping of whores, & worse thā that they would neuer blame him.

No, knowest not thou that Priest of Placentia, A Priest of Placentia. that this other day was ac­cused to haue a wife and children, & straight way, the Pope depriued him of the Benefices he had, & he went to Rome and shewed, howe she neyther was nor could be his wife, bycause she had a husband, but hir he kept as his Concubine, and by and by, the Pope restored him to his benefices again.

Oh vnspeak­able abhomination, and detestable generation, y^• stink of them must nedes ascende euen vp to heauen. Howe is it possible that God shoulde suffer them any longer to cōtinue? I can not beleue, that they can last much longer thus. But follow on the rest.

In conclusion I sawe all the olde Testament brought in­to the newe,All was brought that brought any gayne. sauing onely matrimonye.

That may be the cause, that so many Iewes in these dayes doe become Christians?

It is in dede, and yet there woulde be many more of them, if the Popes would not then confiscate their goodes, for thou knowest how couetous and gredy they be of mo­ny.

But how is it possible, that the new Testament that is so narrow & straight, could receiue so great spoyle as they brought from the olde.

They play as the Shoomaker,The Popes cle [...]gie can str [...]tche thinges for aduantage. Old pulling and all for aduantage that retcheth his Leather with his téeth, & Dyers that strech y^• clothes at the Sunne vpon the Tenters, and as mar­chaūts that thrust the wolles that occupy great row­mes, into a little corner of the Shippe, one haled on the one side, an other heaued on the other side, one stole awaye a piece here, an other putte to a patche [Page] there some stamped it very fine, & some mingled this piece, and some other that other piece, so that ech man serued his owne turne.

But in trans­porting the Byshops, from that Testament to this, in that place where it sayth:1. Tim. 3. That the Byshop must be the husbande of one vvife: Howe did they vse the matter?

Well I wote, there was harde holde. For Paule will in any wise, that the Byshoppe haue his wife, and that, for to take away all suspition of him selfe. As they were therfore al in a great sturre, a Romane Abbot stode vp and sayd: heare ye fathers, know ye not,All the thinges of the old testament were good sa­uing wyues. that it is not lawfull, to bring the wiues of the olde Testament into the newe? but it behoueth vs, that in steade of wyues we haue benefices and fat liuings inough. Therefore will I that ye vnderstand that place thus:1. Tim. 3. Let the Byshop be the husbande of one vvife, that is to say, let him haue at the least one benefice. And so shall we finde a place for our Byshop. And as for the rest that troubleth you so muche, care ye not at all, for he néede not care whether he hath one wife of his owne, that may haue wiues inoughe of o­ther mens.

O there was a good Doctour.

Euen such as be all. But among the rest, I sawe one, that is accoumpted a piller of the Church, who ranne so at randon,A bold Doc­tour. through out the whole Gos­pell, and with such boldnesse, that he set all at hauocke. Afterward he gaue him selfe to write against Matri­mony, then after that, he opened his clothes before him, and began to knock him selfe on the breast: and that done, he stoode vp, and helde the forme or propor­tion of a Church in his hande.

Why did he beate him selfe?

Bycause he did that which God commaunded not, as he had done against [Page 41] that which God had cōmaūded, that is to say, speaking against Matrimonie.

Knowest y^• not the names of any of them.

Yes, and if I rec­ken them to thée, thou wouldest wonder at it, but I will name one or two of them to thée, bycause I will not léese so much time, for I haue many other things to tel thée. There was Thomas of Aquine, Thomas of Aquine. who sought if it were possible to defend his disputation De Dulia & Hyperdulia. Dulia and Hyperdulia.

I remember that dispu­tation. It is vengeaunce subtile.

Who knoweth not, that he had nede worke subtillye, that will make all men beleue, that vnder the forme of the Diuell a man may worship Christ? And that is, when as vnder the figure or Image of the diuel, which thou séest before thée,Sound doc­trine of the diuelles de­uising. thou doest for all that Imagine with thy selfe, that there is Christ, and yet meanest thou not to worshippe that figure or stocke which is in thy sight, but Christ whom thou hast (vnder that figure) conceyued in thy minde.

How can that be done?

Howe coulde it be done in the olde time, that when they offered an Oxe, conceyued God in their imgination, and vnder the Image of that Oxe worshipped him? Thinkest thou that men haue at any tyme bene so foolishe, that they thought that an Oxe was God? and notwithstanding that there was no maner of resemblaunce in the worlde, betwene an Oxe and God, they conceyued (for al that) God in their imagination, through the Image of that Calfe, and being so conceyued, did worship him. And this is y^• subtile Hyperdulia of Thomas Aquine, that thou ioyne God with a stocke, and that thou wor­ship the stock as God, euen as the Iewes worshipped the Oxe for God.

This is in dede a very [Page] subtile but no Christian opinion.

And yet is it defended in these dayes as an article of our faith.

I knowe,The prepo [...]e­rous doinges of the papistes that they will maintaine all such things as ought to be condempned, & cōdemyne all such as ought to be maintayned.

This therfore was it which Saint Thomas of Aquine so botched vp, for if the truth of his matter mighte be knowen abrode, their carued stockes, their pictures, their Images, their paintinges, and their Idolls all would be in great daunger, & the gaine that is gotten thereby, would sone he at an ende.

Thou sayest the very truth,All for mo­ny. for euen for the religious care of their gaine, & not for any other cause, doe the Priestes séeke to maintaine all that which God so much forbid­deth.

Harde beside Thomas Aquine, I saw his master sit, to whome all the rest of his order vsed much reuerence.

Howe was he called?

Me thought they called him Albertus Ma­gus.

I know not who that should be.

It is that holy Doctor whiche so profoundlye disputch of the secrets of women.

Thou vnderstodest them not wel, he is called Albertus Mag­nus, and not Magus, Albertus Magnus bet­ter called Magus. who wrote also of the wonders of the worlde.

It may be that I mistoke it, albeit he may be called, after which sorte you will, for he was without cause called Magnus, being a maruel­lous great Doctor and a great Magician.

And what did his Disciples there with him.

They were entreating of him, that he would goe Am­bassador to the City of Coleyn. A godly Bishop that reformeth his Churche.

For what purpose?

Bycause it was sayde, that the Byshop there, fauoured to much the Gospell, and did as became a true shepherde, and went about (with the [Page 42] helpe of Bucer & Melanchton) to reforme his Church, according to the rule of the Gospell.

But what would they haue had Maister Albert doe there?

That he should séeke if it were possible, to let y^• going forward of so holy a worke. But he might haue gone thither, and haue lost all his labour, for al­beit the City stande somewhat stiffe, the shéepe for all that will follow their good shepherde.

Of such good Bishops should they much nede, who hither­to haue bene deceyued by these false Gods. But saw­est thou any of those newe Doctours?New Doc­tours.

Whom meanest thou to be the new Doctours.

Fysher, B. of Rochester, Ecchius, Pighius, Al­bert of Vdine Byshop of Chioggia.

Ro­chester is not only a Doctour, but also a Martir, ther­fore shall we finde him in the Quéere of the Martirs. But Iohn Ecchius and Pighius I saw not, and by that I coulde learne, they were yet kept in their Purgato­ry, which they so stoutly defended.

Why are those defendours of Purgatorye serued with the same sause for their labour?The rewarde of the purga­torie Champi­ons.

I pray God, they be not cast into the bottomelesse pitte of euerla­sting fire,No purgato­rie but Chris­tes bloud. for none can defende other Purgatory than Christes bloude, without cruell iniurie and blasphe­mie to Christ, for so it happeneth to such as serue cruel Tyrannes turnes, that they them selues first féele the smart of their wicked deseruings. Perillus Bull may teach them.

But doest thou thinke that they shall at any tyme come vp hither, and be placed among the Gods?

Of Pighius I dare not say, bycause he is much estéemed among those Gods, for his eloquence and singuler learning: But sure I thinke that Ecchius shall neuer be able to climbe to [Page] heauen.

And why not?

By­cause he had a fowle great paunch, that hong a foote & a halfe ouer his Codpiece, and that will be a great let to him. And thou knowest Marforius that naturall writers affirme, that heauy things of their owne na­ture go down to the Centre, which thing he right wel vnderstoode that made his Epitaph saying.

A pleasant Epitaphe, and méete for such a paunche. This that thou sayest, maketh mée the better to beleue it bycause I haue séene Pope Lion the tenth, for his great fatnesse had much a doe to goe vp three steppes in Saint Peters Palace, whereby I conclude that muche lesse therefore shall be able to flye to heauen, and especially when he hath no wings. But what canst y^• tell me of Albert Byshop of Chiog­gia? Albert bishop of Chioggia

I saw him in the middest among Pe­lagius, Arrius, Manichaeus, and many other, & he was altogether ful of hepinesse.

Knowest thou the cause why?

I would nedes vnderstand the matter. And it was tolde me, for there was come thyther a Fryer of Saint Fraunces of the Uine, who had tolde him, that he had séene in Venice a Shoppe where they sell Pilcherdes,Cood ware to stoppe mus­tard pottes. full of his workes, which were solde by waighte to them that kepte Shoppes.

I think, that y^• like wil hap one day to al the writings of the founders of this heauen. But tel me, was there none other loked for there?

Many were looked for,Cocles cano­nized a saint. but most chiefly was one Iohn Cocles looked for, bycause he was already canonized [Page 43] a Sainte by the Pope, and appointed to this heauen. There was looked for also, one Costazarus, and one Cornelius, who with his Phariseicall and frierish opi­nions, stoutly fighting against Christ, had gotten the Bishoprike of Bertinoro, or to saye more truely of Bruteonor.

What was spoken of them?

Of Costazarus, Costazarus. I hearde, that these Gods were all wonderously offēded with him, for he had de­ceyued his God the Pope.

And how?

I will tell thée. Preaching in a Lent season in Spoleti, Spoleti a Citie in I­talie. he made a bargain with the Serattanes (who are all cōmon pickepurses) to part the gaine betwene them, and so published certain false bulles, of the par­dones of Clement the .vij. the which pardoned al ma­ner of sinne and mischiefe,A friers fine deuise to get mony. Friers and Pick purses holde together to him that woulde paye a piece of mony therefore. But first he let passe halfe the lent, before he published his Bulles, that the length of the tyme shoulde not discouer his knauerie, therefore when he sawe it was time, he cast forth his nettes, and drewe a great quantitie of golden fyshes. The Citizēs of Spoleti, Il halting be­fore a Crepill. who are as craftie as the Deuill, smelled oute the deceit, and he no lesse craftie than they, was ware that they perceyued it, and so withoute bidding his hoste farewell departed, and lefte the nettes, but the fishe he caried away with him.

There was a conning Fisher, but what was concluded by these Gods concerning him?

To forgyue him, so that he follow his old wickednesse, and aboue all things to beware that he deceiue y^• Pope no more nor speake ought against him.

And of Cor­nelius, what was said?

They commended him much seing him so valiauntly in the Councell de­fende the Popes cause against Christ. And they were [...] [Page] led away to the great glory and renowme of this hea­uen. And euen very then, was come a letter of his, in the which he shewed his diligence, and made those re­uerend fathers vnderstand, how Venice, and all Italy, was ful of Lutherans, & y^• they did cōtinually increase.

These newes must nedes much displease those that were aboue.

Thou mayst be sure of that. And they were also vengeance angry against the Pope.

Alas man, against the Pope, and why?

For they looked for an other to come to this heauen, that had built so many Churches of stone, so many Chappels, so many Aultars, so many furnitures for them, and so many other things for the conseruation, prayse, and glory of this heauen, that fewe were like vnto him.A foule faulte in the Pope to loose suche a bene­factour. And the Pope, bycause he gaue him not the Byshopricke of Verona, hath nowe lost him altogether, and as the letters of the little Gréeke sayde, this gentleman is now aboute to forsake them, and to ioyne him selfe to Iesus Christ, their mortall enimye.Christe and the Pope mor­tall enimies.

If these newes displeased them, it doth the more please me, for (to tell the truth) they are growen into suche a deadly hatred with me, (bycause they are so bitter enimies to my Lorde God) that I feare I shall not liue to sée them all destroyed. But followe on the rest.

We came to the fourth streate,The quere or order of the Martires. where the Martirs are.

What doe they there?

All of them muche disdayning their deathes, sought by all meanes to giue to men the punishement which they them selues suffred. O, I will tel thée a mery pastime that happened while I was there, I hearde a great noyse, I saw euery man run & I runne for company, and I saw Saint Rocke, and Saint Bastian that were [Page 45] together by the eares,Vnqui [...] Saintes tha [...] fight in heauen. Saint Rocke had his lefte hand vpon the nose, and all ouer Saint Bastians face, and with his right hande, bobbed him about the head with his Palmers staffe, Saint Bastian on the other side, he had with one hande caught holde of Saint Rockes bearde, and with the other hauing drawen oute of his thighe one of his Arrowes, was about to haue thruste it through Saint Rockes sides, and if the other blessed Saintes had not come betwene them, there must ne­des haue bene the Diuell and all to doe.

Wherefore fought they?

Bycause eche of them pretended to be Master ouer the plague.

Howe agréed they?

It was con­cluded that one of them shoulde haue the Plague, and the other the Pestilence. As I tolde thée therfore a lit­tle before,Cruel and re­uenging Saintes. all these Martyrs thinking scorne of their deathes, sought to giue to men that punishment, that they them selues [...]ad suffered. And therefore Saint Anthony thought to fasten his fire vpon some one, Saint Rocke his plague, Saint Bastian his Pestilēce, Saint Apolonia the Toothaches, Saint Blase the dis­ease of the throte.

What straunge things be these? I haue heard, that they haue helped suche as had these diseases, but what profite get thei by this cru­elty of theirs?

What thing is it that ma­keth thee so muche to estéeme the Pope?

Feare, for with sworde, fire and water, he punisheth, who so euer abateth one [...]ote of his power and king­dome.

Thou sayest true,The Popes violent argu­mente [...] in Disputacion. & these be the ar­guments, with the which he disputeth against the Gos­pell. But if he had no power to do this to thee, howe muche then, wouldest thou esteeme him?

But little.

May feare therefore of other [Page] mens power doe so muche among men, as to make one, of a man a God?

Yea out of doubt, for feare made the first Gods in the worlde.

Much more therefore oughtest thou to thinke that this commeth to passe concerning Saintes, who are other maner of fellowes than the Pope.

Thou meanest therefore, that they vse this feate, that they may be both feared & worshipped in the worlde?

Who doubteth of that?

And who hath giuen them so great power against men?God vseth his Saintes as Ministers of of his wrathe.

The most high God who sendeth his plagues by these saintes, that are [...]uil Angelles, that is to say Diuels.

And after what sort?

If men forsaking the true God, do runne to false sain­tes, wilt thou not, that God doth leaue them in the power of those, whom they haue chosen to be their de­fendours?

And me thinketh it good rea­son.

If I therfore choose to my selfe, Saint Rocke, or Saint Bastian, or Saint Anthony, to whom I beare my deuotion, and in my missehaps & aduer­sities runne to them, and stande in feare of them, am not I as a slaue vnto them?

No Pasquine we pray them,The blinde o­pinion of the ignorant concerning Saintes. that they will sue vnto God for vs, and there obtayne for vs. Then we pray vnto them, that they wil not vse against vs that power, that they haue of God to do vs hurte, but that they will delyuer vs from the same.

Tell me, thinkst thou that God is become so olde, that he can nowe no more go­uerne the whole worlde alone, and that he must de­uide his kingdom, and his power among his Saints? Beside that, when thou prayest to Saint Ro [...]ke▪ doest not thou euidently shew y^• thou beleuest, y^• he is more merciful than christ & that herein he can do more than [Page 46] christ? for else thou wouldst go to christ.

Albeit I sayd no, the effect sayd yea.

Doing therfore this, séest thou not, that y^• doest iniury to Christ.

And wherein?

In preferring man before God,How Iniurie is done to Christe. in beleuing that a mā hath more mercy, & can do more than Christ: to whome the scripture sayth, that God hath giuen al power in heauen, and in earth,Math. 28. and that he is altogether mercy. In that thou wilt haue an other aduocate than Christ, who as the scripture saith in many places, is our only Aduocate,1. Iohn. 2.& only media­tor betvvene God & man. 1. Tim. 2. What vnexcusable foolish­nesse is that therfore of them, y^• forsaking so mercyful a Lorde, so gentle and liberall a defendour, so mighty an Aduocate, in whom only God the father is pleased, they run backe from God and his sonne, to certaine Saintes, whom they knowe not whether they be in heauen or no, nay rather is it to be thought, that they be in the Diuels Codware, and thus leaue they that onely Mediatour, that onely Aduocate, that God hath prepared for vs,Math. 3. in vvhom onely God is pleased. Oh how many are vpon the Aultars and worke miracles, whose soules are tormented in Hell.

Oh my Pasquine, how much am I bound to thée, that ma­kest me to vnderstande the greatnesse of my grosse ig­noraunce. Nowe am I sory for the time that I haue lost about Iohannes Andreas and Speculator. Wryters vpō the law Canō. But tel me, are Anthony & Rocke Martyrs?

Thou askeste me euen in time, for I my selfe maruelled much at it,Bonner and Story lacked when mar­tir dome was so hard to come by. when I sawe them in that Quéere. But séeking more curiouslye to be out of doubt thereof, it was tolde me, that they were not Martyred, but they earnestly sought to haue bene, and that they roamed throughe many Cities to be offered to the Lord, and [Page] coulde finde no man that would kil them.

This did suche at all tymes finde, as neuer sought for it in dede, thinke thou nowe, whether he might lacke it, that sought for it, & most chiefly then, among those Diocletanes and Maxentij, Cruell ti­rauntes like Bonner and his Babes. that were waxed fat ther­with, as do in these dayes the Popes and their mitred Mahoundes, who if they knew these our communica­tions, I can assure thee, that they would easely graunt vs to be martyrs. But thou sawest not there Saint Peter and Saint Paule?

I sawe them,The Apostels of Saint Iohn Late [...]ane. and I sawe them not. For they were behinde a certayne Courtine, the which was by and by let downe so lowe that a man might sée to their breastes, and anone it was drawen vppe againe in the turning of a hande.

But Saint Christopher was he there?Christophe [...] If he were, thou didst take much payne to sée him, and to knowe him among the rest.

I sawe him, & beholding so monstrous a Giant, I asked mine Aun­gell, if this Giant were euer in earth, much maruel­ling, that none that hath written hystories, nor none of those that with so great diligence, haue written the doings of the Greekes and Romaines, and of others of olde time, hath made any mention of so huge a giant.

What did the Angell answere thée?

He laughed at it: and desiring him to answere me, thus he beganne. Beleue not Pasquine (quoth he) that there hath bene at any time, so great a Giant in the world: but this is a deuise ef those wise men of the first christian common wealth, who meaning to sette forth the life of a christian man, cōprehended the whole vnder this Image,The fable of Saint [...] topher is a figure of [...] Christian mans life. the which they after warde called Christophorus, for Christophorus is no more to saye, but, Bearing Christ. They faine therefore, that he is [Page 47] a Giant, for that he must be strong that beareth Christ and his truth in the presence of men. They fayne also that he carieth men ouer a water: for our life is as a water, ouer the which we can not passe, vnlesse we be caried, that is to say, we can not passe to heauen, ex­cept he that is of Christ doe carry vs with the truth of his Gospell. They faine also that he hath in his hande a trée to stay himselfe by, this signifieth fayth, y^• which if it did not holde vs vp, full ofte should we fall to the ground: they fayne that after he had vsed this work of charitie, the trée waxed gréene agayne, for fayth with­out good workes, is as it were drie and withered. And thus is he paynted at the entrie into the church,Why Saint Christopher is painted with­out the Church dore as in Italie is vsed and other where. The fable of Saint George is the exam­ple of Christes life. to the ende eche christian man should remember, whether he be as he ought to be. There were also other Saintes (mine Angell tolde me) that were likewise fayned, to set forth vnto vs (vnder that representatiō) some truth As Saint George that killeth the Dragon, to deliuer the Kings daughter from that terrible beaste that de­stroyed a [...]l Cappadocia. This Cappadocia is as much to meane, as the world: the Dragon is the Diuel, that deuoureth al that come to his hands, the kings daugh­ter is the Church of God, saint George is Christ, who seing his church in peril, s [...]ayeth that Dragon, and de­liuereth his most faire daughter. And so he tolde me many other like.

This doe I beleue right well, for I remember that the Decretal holdeth these two hystories of no authoritie, and not allowed by the Churche, albeit the Friers haue sithens drawen all things to their owne gayne, partly through false dea­ling, and partely through ignoraunce. If this be true (as I well beleue it h [...]w do lyes swarme in Frier Ia­mes of the Synkehole,Writinges of lieng legende? and Anthonie of Florence, and [Page] many other such like, who haue deuised not hystories, which ought to be the lightes of truth, but fables of Lucian, not liues of men, but lies of Diuels, & with a barbarous & yrkesome style haue intreated therof. And he that taketh them not to be true, woe be to him: he is an Heretique, let him go: nay rather kyll him. And so say I also of those doltishe deuises lately written of saint Katherine, and of saint Thomas Aquine at the instance of that Ipocrite the Marques of Vasto.

Thou séest therefore, that we must not folishly beleue euery thing. I coulde recken vnto thée a num­ber of Gods of the aunciente heathen,The Gods of the Heathen are become our Gods. Sancta Ma­ria Rotunda in Rome. transfourmed into our Gods, with the same errour and falsehode, & without changing any other thing than the name on­ly, and often times without changing the name at al. Beholde the Rotunda, which in the olde time was cal­led Pantheon (bicause it was the dwelling house of al the Gods) nowe haue they made it the dwelling house of all Saintes: and in place of Cibele mother of al the Gods, haue they set the virgin Marie, for heade of al [...] the Saintes. And here harde by thou knowest is the Minerua, Minerua. whiche was in the olde tyme the temple of Minerua, and nowe haue they dedicated it to Saint Minerua the Uirgin,Romulus and Remus. Castor and Pollux. euen as Pallas Minerua was a Uirgin. The Temple whiche in the olde tyme was of Romulus and Remus, they haue made nowe the Church of Saint Cosmus and Damian. The temple that was of olde time of Castor and Pollux, A number of heathenishe ceremonies conuerted in­to necessarie articses of be­liefe. haue they nowe made the Church of Saint Geruays & Prothays. Those of old tyme that had Lucina to heale their eies, these of our time haue Saint Lucie. Those of old time had Ceres to be the Goddesse of Corne, these of oure time haue Pancras. Those of old time had Mars and [Page 48] Pallas to be Gods ouer the warres, these of our time haue Saint George and Saint Barbara. The Scafa­ring men in the olde time, sawe Castor and Pollux, in the ende of a tempest: these of our time sée Saint Eremus. Among those of olde tyme, it was not lawfull for the Uirgins of Vesta, to marry: with these of our time, it is not lawf [...]ll for Nunnes to mary. Among those of old time,A vengeable long leape, or a vengeable lowde lye. the Church of Diana departed from Zante, and together with the builders miraculouslye went into Spaine, as a man may reade in Plinie, with those of our tyme the Church of our Lady at Loretto, came out of Sclauonie, and is maruellously come into Italy, These Ladies be at Rome, & at Venice they haue, our Lady the fai­re, our Lady of the garden our Lady of the beanes, and our La­dy of the Snowe. as is to be read in the lying Legendes of these pickpurse priestes deuising. Those of old time washed selues with fayre cleare water, to clense them selues frō sinnes: these of our tyme fillip with their finger a little holy water on their forehead. They of old time had Iuno Feronia, Iuno Lucina, Iuno Saturnia, Iuno Curites: these of our time haue our Lady of grace, our Lady of the myracles, our Lady our Lordes mother, our Lady of the people. They of olde time filled their Churches with little Tables, conteyning the vowes they made: these of our time fill their Churches full of little Tables conteyning their vowes. Those of old time said, that in beanes dwelled the soules of y^• dead: these of our tyme giue Beanes for the soules of the deade. And euen so,The Paganes and the Po­pish religion al one, or els but little dif­ference be­twene. he that will go and search, pointe by pointe the Popishe Religion, eyther shall he find it altogether like to that of the olde Paganes, or if there be any difference, it differeth but in the names onely. So that if wee will worshippe these oure Saintes, bycause we will not be accoumpted Heretiques, we fall to worshyppyng of Iuno, Minerua, Mars, [Page] Hercules, Polyphemus, Briarius, and an infinite nū ­ber of Diuelles,This Nafissat was made a Saint by the Pope, byc [...]se she did prosti­tute her selfe not for mony nor carnall lust, but for pure deuociō to God and meere neces­sitie of the partie, ha­uing none o­ther almes to giue for Gods sake. vnder the name of Saint Anthony, Saint Nichodeme, Saint Christian, & Saint Nafissa,

Oh Pasquine thou haste well opened my vnderstanding, nowe certainly thou sayest the truth, these things are very clere, I thought euer till nowe, that I had done wel following y^• worshipping of those diuels.

I haue other things without nūbre to say, & when I shal vtter thē, I wil make al y^• world wōder.

Oh happy day, whē y^• trueth shalbe sene to shine abrode.

Happy therfore is this day, for y^• seest how it is sprōg vp & how it goeth shew­ing it selfe abrode, to the worlde in despite of the sha­uen Crownes.

Now proceede on a while to the other Quéeres.

I wil so, but first I must tell thée a fewe things, that here I sawe & heard.

Tel me them therefore.

I sawe one of these martirs, y^• warned the rest of his fellowes that they shuld do nothing against the Heretiques, excepte they would beare the paynes therof thēselues & that they should take example by him,The Charita­blest Saint in al that Hea­uen. who had felte the vengeaunce of God, for that he had accused of he­resie suche as he knew not, and of suche thinges as he vnderstoode not, & if there be any they should rather be wonne by admonishing them to leaue it, than with fire and tormentes to make them awaye. For they be not al Heretiques, that be so called, but such as iudge contrary to the holy Scripture, and that leaue the cō ­maundementes of God,Who be here­tiques. and follow those of men, and defende the same as heauenly commaundements, and also preferre them before Gods commaundements, these b [...] Heretiques. And heauēly things are the same onely, that are contayned in the olde and newe Testa­ment, [Page 49] which if they wil not beleue, the day of the Lord shall come, that shall discouer all things, & shal make them repent it, and their repentaunce shall not then helpe them.

Who was that, that was so honest?

It was Rochester, about whome, were two Martyrs, the one was Peter Martir of the order of Fryers Bréechers.

Thou woul­dest say Preachers.Pasquine al­ludeth to these wordes, Pedi [...] ­catores and Predicatores. Saint Tho­mas Becket.

I alwayes misse in dede. The other was Thomas of Canterbury, eche of them confirmed Rochesters talke.

But had Rochester his redde Hat?

He had in dede his heade red, and his shoulders, but it was with bloude, & not with a Hatte.

And I heard say that the Pope sent him a Hatte.

Yea, but when the King of England vnderstoode it,Rochester lept without his hatte and his head also. he cau­sed his head to be cut of, before he shoulde haue to doe with that Romish harlotte, whervpon the Papistes, for that they thought he dyed for their defence, and by­cause he had written against the Lutheranes, they put him in the number of these holy Martyrs.

It is very well. And for one selfe cause, as farre as I can perceyue, both Peter Martyr, a Dominicane Frier in Italy, and Thomas of Canterbury in Eng­land dyed, the one for persecuting after their Frierish fashion, certaine poore Countrey men, as Heretiques, betwene Milaine and Como was slayne. The other, stryuing with the King for certaine iurisdictions, was condemned, to haue done against the estate.

Thou sayest truth.

Followe on then.

Suche maner of Martyrs are these of the Popes.The Order o [...] the apostles and Euan [...] listes.

Say on the rest.

From this Order, we went vppe to that of the Apostles, and Euangelists.

I like well to heare of this. [Page] Thou wilte anone put me out of doubt, whether there be .xij. Apostles or more. For if Paule of Tharsus were a true Apostle, then are there . [...]i [...]j. Apostles, leauing also the other, that are by him in his Epistles called A­postles.

This question might well haue bene put among th [...]se,Tit. 3. whiche Paule called vnprofita­ble and superfluous, but to satisfie my frende Marfo­rius, I will aunswere in two sortes. First, therefore thou must remember, that we are in the Popes hea­uen: where al things are contrary and preposterous,In the Popes Heauen all thinges are contrarie. & therfore is there not y^• nūber of Apostles egall with that number y^• Christ had, as thou shalt vnderstād af­terward. There was neither y^• true Peter, nor Iames, nor Iohn, nor Paule, nor none of y^• rest, but other of an other maner of sort.

Who were they?

Those y^• are called Cardinals,Cardinales are Apostles in the Popes Heauen Court of Rome & this Heauen all one. y^• which in this heauē are in the place of y^• Apostles.

So it is also in Rome, but I thought y^• there had bene some other thing different one frō another.

Nay, one milke is not so like another, as this heauen is like the court of Rome, in y^• which eche man knoweth that the Apostles and disciples are made for money, & not twelue,The Apost­les and Des­ciples are made for money. but ther may be made of them without num­ber. But concerning the true number of the Apostles, know thou, that they are taken in two sortes. Apostle is as much to say,Phil. 2. as a messanger, Ambassadour, or one that carieth glad tidings. And so Paule doth call Epaphroditus an Apostle, whome the Philippians haue sent vnto him. But proprely those twelue are ac­compted Apostles,Math. 28. whome Christ our king and God sent in the beginning to beare his gospel through the whole worlde. But speaking of Paule,Mar. 16. Paule a true and faithefull Apostle. it is not to be doubted, that he is not a true and faythfull Apostle of [Page 50] Christ,Act. 1. for euen as those twelue, (of which number Iu­das failed, and in whose place was by the Apostles ap­poynted Matthie, by diuine inspiration) were chosen by Christ, being then mortall: euen so by the same Christ,Act. 9. being since immortal and glorious, was Paul called to the office of the Apostleship. Wherefore the Apostles were verely .xiij.xiij Apostles and not xij. and not .xij. except they wyll take those twelue onely that were chosen by Christ, all after one maner, and Matthie as chosen by the Apo­stles, but yet (as I haue sayde) by the spirite of God.

I sée in déede that it is no greate matter, whether a man knowe these things or not: yet is it right pleasaunt to me, that I haue vnderstode them. But tell me, was saint Ierome in this number? for I sée, that they painte him like a Cardinall, and so they say he was.

Saint Ierome was not there,Saint I [...]rome was neuer no Cardinall. neyther coulde he be there, for it is an euidente thing, that in his time there were no Cardinals, but as that Poet sayth, Painters & Poets haue alwayes had au­thoritie to deuise what they liste themselues. And not­withstanding, in these dayes men builde vpon y^• drea­mes of Painters, the chiefe matters of our religion, and they accompte that which is paintedlie as an Ar­ticle of Faith, and him that speaketh against it, for an Heretique. But I say, that Ierome would neuer haue suffred, no such maner of titles deuised by men, tho­row the prouocation of the Diuell.Saint Ierome an enimie to the Romishe Churche. For he was religi­ous, and learned, and farre from all ambition: and a most mortall enimie to the Romishe Church of Anti­christ, that then began to grow, as in all his writings may well be séene.

Why then haue they fayned him to be a Cardinall?

I wyll tell thée. When the Church of Rome began to make Car­dinals: [Page] séeing that y^• order nor title could not be foūded vpon any place of the Scripture,Ierom was called a Car­dinall and was none. bycause it excelled neyther in any great learning or holinesse, to the ende it might yet haue the greater authority and reuerence they began to paint saint Ierome (that was long before dead) with a red Hat, and set him forth as a Cardinal.

That was well done, but then it behoued the rest to follow him, in learning and holinesse.

Is it not inough that they haue followed him,The order of Cardinalles more abho­minable than honorable. How the de­gree of Car­dinalles is growen to so great autho­ritie. in speaking against matrimony?

But bycause there hath not bene one honest man at any time sithens, is not that order therefore more shame­full and abbominable, than honourable?

Howe wilt thou that they should be honest, if in their cursed othe, they rebel from Christ, and do deny him, and ioyne them selues to Antichrist, and worshippe him?

By my truth thou sayest true, who readeth that othe, shall finde that it is so, I neuer toke héede of it before.

But sith they could not giue dignity, and authoritie, to that degrée, with holi­nesse of liuing, and with sincere goodnesse, they haue giuen it to the same with their superfluous rychesse, and like very Tyrannes by force, & not by loue, haue they gotten to them selues authority, and reuerence, or as we may say,This worde sauing your reuerence is vsed of vs when we speake of some thing that is vnclenly or filthie, for men vse some time to saye sauing your reuerence he is a knaue, or a Cardi­nal, and so the Author m [...]a­neth that this word reue­rence belon­geth to ther riches and highe estate, and this worde sauing your reue­renc [...] to their vile and fil­thy life. sauing your reuerence also.

Thou must nedes sée also Bonauenture, that made the comētary vpō the Master of the Sentences, and Vincent y^• Dominicane Frier, that left certaine Sermones behinde him, for they are both Saintes.

I saw them, and they were wrangling to­gether as they had bene mad.

And wher­vpon?

Of that foolishe question, that hath [Page 51] alredy bred so great discordes and tragidies,Brabling and contencion betwene the Saintes. betwene the Friers of Saint Fraunces, and Saint Dominicke.

Of the conception of our Lady thou mea­nest.

Yea.

Is not that fonde foolishnesse yet layde to soake?

It will be layde to soake when all sectes of Friers, shall be layd to soake, or (to say better) ouerthrowen and brought to nought, the which is already begon, and with the help of Christ shal shortly be ended.

God graūt it be quickly. But knowest thou whence this name Cardinall was taken? for Barbazza will nedes that Cardinall shoulde be deriued from this worde Cardo Cardinis, The originall of this word Cardinall. which in our tongue is the hooke or hendge of a doore. And Hostiences, will nedes that they be foū ­ded vpō that place in the booke of kings.1. Reg. 2. Epenthesis. The pillers of the earth are the Lordes, and he hath set the world thereon.

But I founde in an excellent Gramarian, that Cardinall is so called by the figure called Epenthesis, in stead of Cardinall, as they say, Induperator, for Imperator, & for to alleage thée two Authors, to set against thy two, I found in Ruzzante, that this worde Cardinall commeth from the Can­ker, for the Cardinals are the very canker of y^• church, the which disease if it be not altogether taken away, with some edge toole, or with fire, it will neuer be whole. Another exposition haue I also founde in Ca­lapine, who sayth that Cardinal,Carneuale is shrouetide. is euen the selfe same that Carneuale, for neither the one nor the other doth attende to any other thing, than to eate, drinke, slepe, commit whordome,The. wicked­nesse o [...] Car­dinalles is vnspeakeable. fall to banketting, and last of al, to do al those goodly valiant actes, that to declare them all, would wery Demosthenes, Cicero, Virgill, Ho­mer, Horace, and Pindarus. All tongues are dombe to [Page] speake of them euen the thousandeth parte. Better it is to be still than say little of them. And although a man wrote of th [...]r vile naughtynesse more thā Saint Augustine wrote, yet should he haue sayde but little, for the stinke of them reacheth euen to the Scytheans, and to the Hiperboryans, and to the furihest parts of the newe worlde.

They are therefore A­postates and not Apostles. But tell me somewhat of Cardinall Coutarine, Cardinalles that fauored the Gospel. and Cardinall Fregoso, called Salernitano,

I sawe them not, for my good Aungell tolde me, that they were not receyued into this heauen, for they had fauoured the doctrine of the Gospell, more than was the duety of Cardinals, and that if the waight of their Cardinalship haue not pul­led them downe: he thought, that they were ascended to the true heauen.

God is strong inough, he might easely haue drawen thē vp thither, if it were his will.

I knowe that well, for all things are possible with God.

I pray thee hearti­ly talke no more to me of these men, but follow on the rest.

I will: but I doubt that we shall go from euill to worsse,The order of of the Euan­gelistes. for after these come the Euange­listes, whom when I saw, me thought I felt my soule to be torne, as it were out of my body, for very sorow.

Alas, what is that I heare thée say?

It is as I tell thée, for in place of those foure Euangelistes, and of their Gospels, (albeit the Gospel be but one onely, be it eyther written by the Apostles, or the Euangelistes) I saw that there were foure coū ­cels receyued, that is to say, that of Nice, that of Con­stantinople, that of Ephesus, & that of Calcedon. And then foure Doctours of the Churche, that is to we [...]e Ambrose, Augustine, Ierome, and Gregorie. And after [Page 52] these, other innumerable, whome we had sene in the Quéere of the Doctours. And moreouer, were added the bookes of the Decrées, Decretalles, Sectes, and Clementines: neyther did all this suffise, but it was also graunted to euery one, so that he had eyther a Cowle or a shauē Crowne, to write what him lusted, and the same to set forth in steade of Euangelical and Apostolicall Doctrine:What shauen Crownes may doe. In so muche, that the Pope hath drawen all things to him selfe, and hath placed him selfe in the steade of Christes Gospel, and of God him selfe, nay rather aboue God,2. Thes. 2. The Pope is a­boue al, both God and men. and aboue al lawes, of God or men, affirming that all consisteth in his owne breast. Beholde therfore, what maner of Euan­gelistes, and what Gospels they be. And yet I tell thée nothing of the Belles, of the carued, of the painted, and of the molten Images of the Church, of the Cros­ses, of lightes,Howe the Popes [...]altrie must be este­med. of waxe, of vesselles, of garments, and other ornaments, all whiche things they will nedes haue to be taken for true Euangelists: Wherefore I pray thée cause me not to speake any more of this so abhominable and detestable a Quéere.

Procéede therefore to the rest.

A little of from hence,The order of the Preistes and Leuits. was the order or Quéere of Priestes and Leuites.

Newe or olde?

New made of the olde.

Howe?

Re­membrest thou not, that we said before that I sawe in y^• Quéere of the Doctours, they caryed the old Testa­ment into the newe?

I remēber me well of that, but I thought that our Priesthoode had come from Christ, and not from the olde Testament.

What did make thée thinke so?

Many things: first,Num. 1. they were Priestes, by nature, & by succession: for the Trybe of Leui had this priui­ledge [Page] of God: wherfore Leuiticus, was called y^• A compari­son betwene the priesthode of the olde lawe and the Popes prieste [...]. priest­hoode. Our Priesthoode consisteth not in any familie or kinred, but they are Leuites and Priestes, that are by the Byshop thervnto chosen and greased. Beside that, they sacrificed brute beastes, but our Priestes do offer and sacrifice Christ to God.

Thou fo­lowest the errour of the Papistes Marforius, that is to say of the Romishe Church, but a remedy must be founde for this errour.

What remedy is that?

The Philosophers sayd, that Phi­losophie was the medicine of the minde,Errours the infirmities of the minde. True wisdom the medicine of the minde. for it tooke a­way errours and purged the mind. But we that haue receyued y^• truth from the true God, say not that Phi­losophie, (that is to saye, the desire of worldely wise­dome) but the wisedome it selfe, giuen vnto vs in the wrytings of the Apostles, is the medicine of the mind, and a most sure remedy against al errors which are y^• diseases of y^• mind.

Why thē, is y^• an error of our priestes.

It is a fowle error, & a madnesse of mind very daungerous.

I muche desire to be healed of this infirmitie, and to haue agayne y^• health of minde, which is the wisedome of Christ.

Thou shalt sone be hole, for thou knowest thy disease,Christes wise­dom the helth of the minde. and desirest the medicine. I wil therfore begin to cure thée. All that thou hast spoken of Priesthode, shall be ouerthrowen, if thou wilt thinke, that neyther the A­postles, nor the Euangelists haue written so much as one tittle of such kinde of Priesthode and Sacrifice: But where they haue spoken of Priesthode, and of Priests, they haue not meante it of those that are an­nointed by Byshops,A discriptiō of the true Priesthode. but of that Priesthode that ma­keth all Christians, to be Priests, consecrating them with the vnction of the holy Ghost, and not wyth oyle [Page 53] coniured and consecrated by Byshops. Peter the A­postle sayth,1. Pet. 2. that all Christian man are a spirituall housholde, and a holy and royall Priesthode, to offer spirituall offrings acceptable to God,Al Christi­ans are Priestes. through Iesus Christ. And so saint Paule, prayeth the Romanes, and other the true worshippers of Christ, that they offer their bodies in a liuing sacrifice,Rom. 12. holy & acceptable to God, which is your reasonable seruing of him. Wher­fore thou séest, that we are al the temple of God, Prie­stes, Offrings, and Sacrifices most acceptable vnto God, for our Lord Iesus Christ, the high Priest and e­uerlasting Byshops sake.Induction. I would therefore knowe of thée nowe, if thou beleue that Iesus Christ the high Priest and Lambe,Heb. 10. haue taken away the sinnes of the worlde, as sayth saint Iohn,Iohn. 1 and all the whole scrip­ture.

Yea I beleue it.

I would know of thée, for what occasion thou thinkest that the Priestes of the olde testament so often times renued those sacrifices, and heaped so many offrings one af­ter another.

Bicause God had commaun­ded it.

That is true, but yet for an other cause, sayth Paul,Sacrifices of the olde lawe could not take awaye Synne. that is, bycause those sacrifices did not take away sinnes, and therfore were they so often renued: for else there shuld haue bene an ende of their sacrifices, as Paule sayth.

I vnderstand thée nowe, but I knowe not to what ende thou spea­kest this.

To what end thinkest thou thatHeb. 10. the Priestes and other of the olde lawe,Why Priestes in the olde lawe were in­stituted. were institu­ted by God?

For sacrifices I thinke.

Priests therefore were instituted for sacrifices, and the sacrifices and the altares for sinnes.

So it séemeth to me.

Take away ther­fore sinne, & thou shalt sée, that there is no more priest­hode, [Page] aultare, nor sacrifice. For as much as Paul she­weth vs the reasō therof, by that which the holy ghost spake. This is the Testament, Heb. 10. that I vvill make vvith you. Iere. 31. After those dayes I vvil giue my lavves into their hartes, & vvil vvrite thē in their mindes, and vvil no more remember their vvickednesse: Thus doth he conclude, where as remission of sinnes is made, there is no more oblation for sinnes, and to shewe that we are true priestes,Hebr. 10. he addeth exhorting vs. Sith vve haue therefore my brethren thorovv the bloude of Iesu, li­bertie to enter into the holy place, by the nevve and liuing vvay, vvhich he hath prepared for vs, throughe the vaile, that is to say, his flesh. And seing vve haue an high priest, vvhich is ruler ouer the house of God, lette vs dravve nere vvith a true heart in a sure faith, hauing our heartes vvashed, and the euill conscience put avvay. But as touching that thou hast sayd,The Popishe Priestes can not offer Christe. that our Massemūblers offer euery day Christ in their sa­crifice to God: thou art not able with any little au­thority of the Scripture, to confirme it. Nay rather is it against the Scripture, and is deuised to the blasphe­mie of Christ, and of his Sacrifice. For it is wrtten to the Hebrues. That vve are sanctisied, Heb. 10. by the offering vp of Christes body once onely done. For he hauing offered one onely offering for sinnes, is set dovvne for euer, at the right hande of God, and from hence forth tarieth till his enimies be made his fotestole, for vvith one onelye oblation, hath he made perfecte for euer, those that are sanctified. Wherefore there nedeth no more any other sacrifice, to pourge sinnes. For Christ to whome it was sayd. Thou art a priest for euer, hath once only & sufficiently offered him self for our sinnes, an euerlasting, vncha [...]geable, perpetual offring, & sa­crifice. [Page 54] But these mates calling their Masse a sacri­fice, go about to shew, that the sacrifice of Christ once onely done, is not of perfection to washe away al sin­nes. The which howe great an offence,The great blasphemie of the Popishe Priestes. howe great a blasphemie & iniurie it is against the bloud of Christ, all godly men doe knowe, and not onely do they this outragious offence, but they do also commit sacriledge these Massemumblers of ours, who affirme, that they offer Christ to God, whom the father gaue to vs. And Christ sayde to Wall: Take ye, Math. 26. eate ye, drinke ye of this all of ye. And these for all that do the contrary,Luc. 22. and will séeme to be more rich than God, sith they say, that they giue that, whiche they receyue, or rather that they might receiue, if they beleued the holy scriptures. But the matter is far otherwise, for they neyther giue nor receyue nothing,The Priestes say they giue Christe. they giue not, for no man can giue that he hath not, and that they haue not Christ, by this it may be séene, in that they haue not fayth, the which only maketh of the heart of man, the temple of Christ. And for the same cause can not they receyue Christ,How Christe is giuen. whiles he is offred vs. For with the only faith and assured stedfastnesse in y^• goodnesse of God, and of the sacrifice of Christ, Christ is to be receyued. And if they can giue any thing,The Papistes giue the Di­uell and [...] Christe. they can giue the Diuel, whō they haue receyued: euen as Iudas the traytour into whom Sathan entred when Christ offred him y^• piece of the mysticall breade. But if thou haue any thing to say herevnto,Iohn. 13. say on, for I wil say nothing else.

What wouldest thou that I should say against so open testimonie of the Scripture? Wilt thou haue the sicke man stryue with the Phisitian? I haue ta­ken this holsome drinke that thou hast giuen me, and I hope, that hauing well digested it in the bowels of [Page] my soule, it will purge me, and heale me, not one­ly of this, but of many other diseases. But one doubt sticketh yet in my stomacke, whether thou w [...]lte haue in the Church of Christ, any orders or any holy factiō.

I deny not,Orders neces­sarie in the Church. nor refuse not, (my Marforius) the ministerie of the Church, nor any order, that may be brought in by the Testimonie of the newe Testa­ment. For I learne by S. Paule, that Christe hath giuen vnto his Church,Ephe. 4. Some to be Apostles, some Prophetes, other to be Euangelistes,Rom. 12. other pastors, and some teachers,1. Cor. 12. that the Saintes might haue all things necessary to vvorke & minister vvithall, to the edify­ing of the body of Christ till vve euery one in the vni­tie of faith, & knovvledge of the sonne of God, grovv vp to a perfect man after the measure of the age of the fulnesse of Christ.

This must nedes be a very goodly order: but I vnderstand it not very well.

I will declare it vnto thée. Apostles are those,Apostles what they be. Prophetes what they be. Euangelistes what they be. that beare the Gospel vnto dyuers people & Nations. Prophets are those y^• being inspired by the holy ghost do forwarne the Church, of the things that are like to happen vnto hir. Euangelistes are those, that best are able to shewe forth and declare the Gospell, and are good Oratours in Christian knowledge. Pastours that also are called Byshops,Pastors what they are. are those that haue the authority wel to gouerne the congregations, and that féede their flockes with good example of life, and with true doctrine, & are watchfull to vnderstande the ma­ners and the lyues of their congregation, and the na­mes of eche of their sh [...]pe. Doctours are they,Doctours what they are. that in the congregation teach good sciences, whether they be holy or prophane. And this is it, that thou demaundest of me. Albeit I doe not seperate from the body of Christ, neyther Magistrates, nor the duetye of good [Page 55] Princes, nor any other offices of the Christian com­mon weale, which Paule him selfe in many places de­clareth. But I haue declared to thée briefly, these fiue principall offices.

But what sayest thou of Priestes?

A Priest is as much to say as an Elder,Prieste [...] what they are. and they were the selfe same, that the by­shops were, or Senatours of the church, of no lesse re­spect for their age,Priestes were no sacrificers in the primi­tiue Church. than for their godlinesse. But yet were they neuer Sacrificers, nor Massemumblers, what soeuer our smeared shauelings prate thereof, be they eyther the highest, the lowest, or the rude sorte of Sir Iohns.

I stande nowe hearkening that thou shouldst shew me, what thou sawest in that Quéere of Priestes.

I sawe a shamefull and disordered rable of Priestes, of whom some were Canonnes,A disorde­red rable of shaued Priestes. some Parsons, some Chaplaines, some Archedeacons, some Archepriestes, some Prouostes, some Singlesoled priestes, some Deacons, some Chaū ­ters, and some of a thousande other sortes of names, which haue bene founde out, sith the name of a miny­ster, (through the pride of the wicked) began to stinke, as nothing honourable, and yet too burthenous.

What were all they doing?The consulta­cion of the Popes clergie. The Popes clergie is craf [...]ie and subtill.

They were consul­ting of their ryches, of their tythes & pensions.

What might be the cause therof?

Bicause y^• pope demaūded y^• tēthes of their benefices,Fat Priestes fell to pac­king for feare of sacking. & not once onely, but euery yere once, yea twice a yeare, & they were deuising meanes, how to scrape home to thē sel­ues, by some other fine fetches, all y^• which they were cōstrained to giue to y^• Pope. There shuldst thou haue heard diuers opinions, some there were y^• said, that it was good coūsel to deuide amōg thē selues, y^• riches of their churches, as Chalices, Patēs, siluer plate, & the gay Copes, & other ornaments, alleaging, that if they [Page] did it not the sooner, the Pope, or the Turk, or else the Lutherans would sone after do it: sith they haue their weapons ready. Here against spake certaine poore hedge Priestes,The hedge Priestes for feare they shall licke no part, worke an other way. doubting, that they should not haue their part of the Pye, and sayd, that it should be much better for euery mans purpose, if eche of them in his owne towne and Church, would first shewe forth out­wardly great holynesse, in their church garmentes, in their owne apparell, in their countenaunce, in their gestures, and aboue all things, in Massing deuoutly, and to attend diligently to all their outward ceremo­nies. And that done, that eche of them finde out some goodly Image, or of the bones of some deade man, and some newe Reliques, or to make some drops of bloud come oute of a crucifixe, or of some other Image, or else to make the Uirgin Mary wéepe, or finde some of hir milke,The way to bring Priests in credite & estimation. or say that their God leapeth, and is in form of a childe: or else say, that they haue séene, straunge and wonderfull things in their Massing, or haue sene some straūge vision, or to faine some other prety feate: affirming this to be the way, to cause them to be re­uerenced, and obeyed of the people, & to recouer that reputation, which for their abhominable naughtinesse they haue lost, and not onely to mainteyne, but also to encrease their ryches. But such as most commende this deuise,Ipocrites cō ­mende moste this deuise. Chietti set­teth vp a new sect of I­pocrites. were of the Ipocritish order, instituted by Cardinall Chietti.

I remember, that I heard while he dwelled in Venice, that he had set vp a newe secte of Priestes, founded altogether in Ipocri­ste and outward shewe of holinesse, whereof it is come to passe, that all Ipocrites are called Chiettines, the which secte he forsooke, as sone as he had caught that he fished for, for he had lefte his Bishopricke, that he [Page 56] might get him a Cardinals Hatte, as Arettine sayde. Forthwith therfore as his deuise came about, he came flinging hither, to infect the Court of Rome with his Ipocrisie.

Diddest thou neuer heare, how he aunswered his Priestes at his departing from Ve­nice, when they asked him whither he wente.

No,Iohn. 8. I heard it neuer.

Whither I go quoth he, thither can you not come, meaning that he lefte them in pouerty, and in their filthinesse, and that he wente to Rome, to that great dignitye, as to his owne heauen.

He vsed the words of christ to good purpose vile Uarlet that he was.

In such like sorte do they interprete the scriptures all the packe of them, and so by abusing it, find they out Pur­gatoryes, Popes powers, & all other reasons for their defence.The order or Quere of Pa­triarches and Prophetes. But let vs come to the Quéere of the Patri­arches, and Prophets.

Mary I besech thee heartily, & say on. Whether there were in that place the .xij. sonnes of Iacob, for they were all called Patri­arches.

No but those that I sawe, were of the newe Testament.

Why, are there also Patriarches of the new Testament?Patriarches of the newe Testament.

To tel thée the very truth Marforius, the Patriarches of the newe Testament, are none other, than Popes, Cardinals, Friers, Priestes, and such lyke, of whom thou shalte not finde one iote in the holy Scripture. But our forefathers, who were the deuisers of this so great a misterie of iniquity, and of deceyte, to the end, other should not perceyue, that they altogether played the Iewes, caryed not the Patriarches of the olde Testamente into the newe, but into their owne Sinagoge.

Two sortes of Patriarches. And who are these.

There are two sortes of Patriarches, of the one sort, [Page] are the Patriarches of the foure Regions that is to say, that of Rome, of Antioch, Alexandria, and of Ie­rusalem. And the seate of the Empire,The one sorte. being after­warde remoued to Constantinople, to the rest of the [...]atriarches was adioyned he of Cōstanstinople, and afterwarde other, as that of Aquiligia, and that of Venice. And they haue [...]btayned this degrée, bycause they are heades and rulers of other Byshops, as they also are Byshops them selues. There was an other sorte of Patriarches,The other sort who had no maner superioritye or dignity of the Patriarch [...]ships while they were a­liue.

Why, and are they made Patri­arches when they be deade?

Yea out of doubt,When Peter was made Pope. euen as Saint Peter was made Pope after his death, which neuer was, nor neuer could be, nor yet was he at any time in Rome. And euen so was Saint Ierome made a Cardinall. Among these Pa­triarches are accopmted Saint Iohn Baptist, Saint Dominicke, Dominicke & Fraunces are Patriars ches. who instituted the order of breaching, I would say preaching Friers, and Saint Fraunces the order of Friers Minores, or vnderminers.

Why are they called Patriarches?

Bycause they are the chiefe of the Fathers, and the deuisers of sectes,Friers are no lyers that call them selues Fathers. that is to say of the Friers who call them selues Fathers.

Why then, by this reason, euery order and house of Friers may call his Authour or foūder Patriarch.

That they may, but these Families of Friers haue bene more ambitious than the rest.

Sawest thou there Dominicke and Fraunces.

I sawe them,Fraunces & Dominicke clad like shepeherdes. but in other apparell, than they were in the Quéere of the Friers, for there were they both cladde like shepe­heardes, with a wéede of rough course cloth, and in the [Page 57] middes thereof a hole, to thrust out their heades, and a hoode made fast thereto to kepe them from the raine, and from colde, for so were the shepeheardes of Italy and Spaine wont to be clad. But here I sawe them in Pontificall apparell, and with Crownes on their heades.

Two things there are, that make me muche maruell, the one is that I sée, their succes­sours, and followers go clad in so fine clothes, and to be so lofty and proude, the other is, how it is possible that they may be in two places at once, here & among the Friers.

Thou must not maruel at that,Fraunces and Dominicke are Gods. for they are Gods, & occupy no place at all, but where and when they list, they are séene, and do suffer other to looke on them, as (if thou vnderstandest not what I meane,) I wil shewe thée by a similitude. Euen so are they in dyuers places at one instante of tyme,Iust as Ier­man [...] lippes. as Christs body with his natural length & breadth is con­tayned in a thousand Hostes & Masses at one instant.

If I did not vnderstande thy similitude, I shoulde with the Logicians conclude, that if they be not in some place, ergo, they be not at all, for there is nothing but hath a place proper to his nature, but these things I let passe, and desire to heare what these Patriarches did.

Thou askest me not of Saint Iohn Baptist.

I had forgotten, that he was accompted among the Patriarches, for I toke him to be only a Prophete and more than a Prophet.

Knowest thou not,Iohn Baptist Iohn. 11. in the Letanies of saint Gregorie, he only is placed there vnder the title of Pa­triarches and Prophetes?

I haue heard a thousand tymes, but I remember it not.

I sawe him in that place, but (oh Lorde) how farre dif­ferent from that which the Euangelistes describe him.

Thou tellest me of wonderfull altera­tions, and farre more straunge than Ouide writeth of.

I tell thée as the truth is, if thou wilte beleue the Gospell, thou mayest sée, that the same Iohn Baptist vvas Cladde in a garment of Camelles haire, Math. 3. and called all men to repentaunce, Luc. 3. he baptised, and shevved forth playnely the Lamb of God, Iohn. 1. that taketh avvay the sinnes of the vvorlde. But this Iohn Bap­tist that I speake of was a terrible fellowe and had in his hande a fayre sharpe glaiue,A newe Iohn Baptist Pa­trone of the Knightes of the Rodes. Knightes of the Rodes. and was armed at all pieces, and was followed after, not by a number of sorowfull sinners, but by a ro [...]te of sea rouers, that call themselues Knightes of Therodes.

Thou meanest Knightes of the Rodes: so called by the Isle of Rodes, that they lost.

I haue al­wayes heard them called Knightes of Therodes by suche: as speake clarkely and within booke, and now are they called Knights of Malta, Malta a fret­ting stone. according to the na­ture of the stone called Malta, which is to freate and consume: for suche is the nature of those Knightes.

Oh what a wonderfull oddes in condici­ons is there. But what doth this Iohn Baptist?

This also doth baptise, but by violence and in the water of the sea.

Thou meanest, whē he sinketh the shippes of pore Maryners?

he maketh many to repent themselues,Iohn Baptist f [...]rceth men to, event, not by preaching but by [...]iracie. and sendeth them into the wildernesse.

Yea, when with his Mates he falleth to rouing & spoyling this man, and that, and leading away the siely soules, as prisoners.

So I say, for he followeth Saint Iohn Baptist in al things and that couragiously.

If Christ had sente this Iohn Baptist before him, he shoulde more easely haue brought the Iewes [Page 58] to subiection,Iohn. 18. for feare of him.

The Kingdome of Christ our God, was not of this world, as thou knowest, for the Iewes looke for a Messias, that shoulde be lusty, and that with weapons, & mis­chiefe shoulde destroye all.

What badges weare they?

All weare in their vpper gar­ment a crosse, some whyte, some redde, some greene, some playne and straight, some gathered, and some toothed lyke a saw, and those I toke to be Spanyards, not onely by their apparall, and by the Palabras, Palabras in Spaynishe is to say, words. but also bicause they stoode next of all to their God Saint Iames.

Wherefore weare they that crosse in the vpper garmentes?

Bicause they can not cary it in their heartes, and if thou wilt haue an other reason therefore, bicause they crucifie and trouble manye from tyme to tyme.

But what haue these fellowes to doe with Iohn Baptist?

What? they make, manye desertes in the honor of Saint Iohn Baptist.

But Saint Iohn neuer made no desertes, but dwelled in them.

And these Mates make them, and leaue o­ther to dwel in them, and dwel in more ease and plea­sure than Sandanapalus.

I haue in déede heard, that when they had Rodes, they did such things as Turkes woulde not haue done,The filthie life of the Knightes of the Rodes. and for this cause I think, by Gods iustice they were driuen from their old abiding place.

So commeth it to passe, when w [...] will with force and crueltie, bring men to Christ, and not with loue, righteousnesse, fayth, and true Christian doctrine: as did our olde Fathers in tymes past.

For oughte I sée, in these Knightes thou speakest of, there is no more Christi­anitie in them but in the names, onely.

[Page]Nay nor yet in the name,Knights ney­ther Christi­ans in deede nor in name. for they are not cal­led the Knightes of Christ of Heauen, but of Saint Iohn of the Rodes. But in this point they séeke to be lyke him, in that they mary no wyues and lyue lyke single men.

If they haue no Wyues, they haue the more Harlottes, and though they lyue lyke single men yet lyue they not chaste, but this is not, to be lyke Saint Iohn, but rather some vile filthy Ruffi­an.

Thou hast hit it.

Followe on to the other Patriarches.The Popes Patriarches conspire the death of gods seruaunts.

Saint Domi­nick had called to Chapter all his Priours, Subpri­ours, and the Uicares of all other nations, and most chieflye of the Spaniardes, and was treating with them for the burning of Heretiques, or how by some other deuise to make them away.

But this is not done lyke a Prince, but lyke a Tyrant, not like a Saint but rather a Deuil,A wrong way to winne men to Christ. for this is not the way to winne men, but to destroy them, nor the waye to fol­low Christ, but Sathanas, who was a murtherer from the beginning. Beholde vvhat Christ sayth, Iohn. 18. suf­fer them both to grovv vntill the haruest, that vvhile ye weede out the tares, Math. 13. ye pull not vp the corne also. But these men wéede not out the tares, but pull vp the good corne: for if they woulde roote out the cockle and tares, they muste of force roote out themselues, who take for Heretiques all suche as speake against,Why Luthe­rans are con­dempned for Heretiques. their Hipocrisie, wickednesse, and curssed Idolatry, as the Lutheranes, who are in déede true christians, and they themselues Antichristians.

I sée now, that thou vnderstandest the matter: but couldest thou shew in fewe wordes, and with any effectuall reason, which are the Christians, and which the Antichristi­ans.

I doe in déede in my self vnderstand [Page 59] it, but I shoulde not be able to shew the same playne­ly to an other.

I will doe it then. Let this be vnto thée an euident token,How to know Gods enimies from his freinds. to knowe thereby these y^• haue alwayes persecuted, are Gods enimies, & those that are persecuted be his friends. And to begin at the beginni [...]g of the worlde, thou séest thatGen. 4. Abell did neyther persecute, nor slay Caine, but was persecuted and slayne by Caine, Iacob did not persecute Esau, but Gen. 27. Esau persecuted Iacob: Moses dyd not persecute Pharao, butExo. 14. Pharao persecuted Moses: christ did not persecute the Pharisies,Iohn. 15. but the Pharisies persecuted Christ. The Apostles, and all the true Martyrs of Christ did neuer persecute the Tirantes, but the Ti­rantes persecuted them, and stewe them. And yet for all that, Abell, Iacob, Moses, Christ, the Apostles, and Martyrs,christ church hath bene persecuted from the be­ginning. were Gods Friends, & so contrarywise Caine, Esau, Pharao, the Pharisies, and the Tirantes, were Gods enimies. And euen so nowe Saint Domi­nicks▪ Fryers and the rest, Priestes, Prelates, and Princes, that persec [...]te suche, as giue all prayse to Iesus Christ, and followe his holy gospell, are his vt­ter enimies, & the pore that are persecuted, his frends.

Oh what a manifest reason is this, who is so blinde that can not sée this?

I wyll tell thée of some other, Paule▪ writing to Timothe, 1. Iohn. 4. sayth. The spirite speaketh manifestlye, that in the latter tymes some shall depart from the fayth, (marke vvell all I tell thee) and shall giue heede to spirits of errors, and the deuilish doctrine of them, (marke) that speak false through Ipocrisie, and haue their cōscience mar­ked vvith a hote yron (marke, marke if thou vvilte knowe them) forbidding matrimonie, and meates. What sayest thou by this, Marforius? Who shal ex­cuse [Page] himselfe with God, that he hath not knowne them,None▪ excuse can serue with God. who forbiddeth matrimonie? who forbiddeth meates? who woulde haue the matter more cleare?

Tel me no more of this I pray thée hearti­ly, for I am cleared therof ynough and ynough, they maye goe about to excuse themselues, but they make but a foolishe piece of worke. Saye on I beseche thée.

A certayne Spaniard one of the Inquisi­on for heresie, accused certayne Spaniards and of the best of them for Lutheranes, and by this he sayde he smelled them out, bicause they gaue to the pore great almes, and to the Friers they gaue nothing, and a­fore tyme they were wont for euery trifeling matter to sweare, in dispite of God, and to blaspheme God, Christ and his saintes outragiou [...]ly, to fall to play, to runne on whore hunting, [...]en tak [...]n for heretikes bycause th [...]y will not swere and doe euill. and to do the deuill and all of mischiefe: and nowe they will prayse God and lyue soberly, chastly and godly, and absteyning from euill applye onely thinges graue and profitable. But the worst is, they wil al day long reade the holy scripture, and therfore were they taken for stinking heretiques.

What answere made Saint Dominicke?

He sayde, they muste follow him, and doe as he did, at Tholosa, where at the procuremente of Innocent the thirde,Dominicke burned and played the Deuil, there­fore was he made a saint. Some became gods for play­ing the Di [...]el. he quenched that heresie wyth maruellous spéede.

And how?

He sayde that the must not dispute the matter, but fall to this businesse with fyre and sworde, & for this cause was he made a saint.

So came it to passe with those of olde tyme, that many for their euill do­ings, and with slaughter of men, are also made Gods. As Iupiter, Mars, Romulus, and many Cesars. But concerning the counsell that Dominicke gaue, the [Page 60] selfe same did Alexander Cardinall of Brundusio ad­uise not onely the Pope, but also the Emperour, and Ferdenando of Austriche, Good gostly counsell. bicause they should not dif­fer from Turkes. And therefore in Spaine and in Al­maine, where their authoritie is greatest, this good counsell is very straightly obserued.

It is obserued in déede. But the Lorde will ouerthrow and destroy all greatnesse and power, which setteth vp it selfe against his maiestie and greatnesse. And therfore thou séest, that now of his iustice he sendeth y^• Lantz­graue graue to plague them bothe.

Oh God graunt it. But Saint Fraunces what was he doing?

Saint Fraunces kept a stirre with his Fri­ers,Of the Patri­arche Fraunces. that they had not with more diligence, sowen his Conformities, abrode in the worlde, which if they had done, it might haue happened, that he should not on­ly haue bene taken for as good as Christ, but also bet­ter.

What Conformities are they?

It is a booke made & deuised by Saint Fraun­ces Friers, with the which if thou compaire the Alco­ran of Mahomete,Alcoran is the whole Booke of the Turkes lawe. thou wilt saye, that the Alcoran is in comparison of it, most holy, albeit in many things they are lyke.

I haue heard say, that when Saint Fraunces was required by his disciples to giue them a rule of lyuing, he gaue vnto them the gospell.

So it is sayd: but his followers haue very e­uil obserued it, which if they had wel done, they should not haue dreamed out so many lyes, and monstrous tales of him, as if they woulde make hym another Christ, for they say, that their Saint Fraunces, is a­boue all, thrones, dominations and powers.

How can that be?

Whether it can be, or can not be, it is ynough, that in the very Pulpits [Page] they are so bolde to preach it, and to tell also this no­table shamlesse lye, that is,Deuine Doc­trine drawne out of Legen­da Aurea, or such lyke. that one that desired once to know in what place Saint Fraunces was, ran out of his wittes, and was ledde rounde about all the partes of Heauen, and neuer founde him, at the last, he came to the throne of the diuinitie, where demaū ­ding for Saint Fraunces, Christ then rose vp from his seate, on the right hand of God the Father, and ope­ning his clothes vpon his brest, and forthwith came Saint Fraunces out of his side, then came he to his wittes againe.

Who was that?

It was a Frier.

It was a false Knaue thou wouldest haue sayde. I beleue thée well, that he ranne out of his wittes, but I beleue not that he came afterwarde to himselfe againe, for if he had not bene altogether beside himself, he woulde neuer haue letten escape his mouth, so grea [...] a blasphemie, and so beastly a foolishe tale, méete for Mahomet or Lucian to tell: and it séemeth there is so great blindenesse in the world, that there are suche that will soner beleue this deuilish deuise, than the truth of the Gospell. But what did those head Patriarches?

They did striue for the primacie of the Church,The Patriar­ches striue who should be chiefe. for he of Canstantinople sayde, that to him appertayned the title of vniuersall and chiefe Bishop, bicause there with him was the sée of the Empire. He of Ierusalem, he would haue it for himselfe, alleaging, that in that place,Peters see, at Antioche. One Pope speaketh a­gainst ano­ther. the highe Bishop Christ had triumphed. He of Antioch, he woulde néedes haue it, alleaging that Peter chief of the Apostles, there had kept his sée, and that he was neuer at Rome. He of Rome(not regar­ding the saying of Saint Gregorie, who sayde, that he shoulde be Antichrist, who woulde be called the vni­uersall [Page 61] or chiefe Byshop ouer other Byshops) partly by deceite, and giftes, and partl [...] by force, obtayned at the last,The Popes vaine gloriou [...] titles. to be called the chiefe Byshop, the greatest, the higest, vniuersall, most blessed, most holy, and the lawful successour of Peter, and of Christ.

What sayest thou, that Peter was neuer at Rome?

That matter is to cleare: and if thou doe not beleue me, reade that boke intitled. Quod Petrus nūquam Romae fuit. To which author I referre thée, bicause I will be briefe.

I will séeke to haue it, as soone as I can, and wil reade it ouer. But what sayde the Patriarche of Alexandria?

And he also alleaged reasons, and shewed, that for­as much as he is nere to Babylon, Babylon the hea [...] of al ab­homination. and that Babylon hath bene alwayes the head of all abhomination, and bicause Babylon is the greatest of all other Cities, it was good reason, that he shoulde be the head: and so much the more, that if Rome woulde so fayne be the head, it must needs be called Babylon, Petrarke cal­ [...]eth Rome Babylon. as in Petrarke the Poet is to be séene, who had learned the same in the schoolehouse of Saint Iohn the Euangelist.

By my fayth he sayde not amisse in his kinde. But let vs speake a little of the Prophets, sawest thou Esay, Prophetes. Ieremie, Daniell, and the rest.

Not one of them, but the sonnes of Balaam, Num. 22. who loued the rewarde of iniquitie, and was therefore reproued by the Asse.

Are there no Prophetes in the newe Testamente?

Yes that there are. Doest not thou remember that heretofore, we reck­ned the Prophetes, among the offices of the Church of Christ? for I meane nothing of the olde Prophets, but of those that haue followed and yet doe the way of false Prophetes, and of such as haue prophecied for [Page] rewarde. But thou muste learne, that these wordes Prophete & prophecie signifie two things,This worde Prophete hath two mea­nings. the one is, he that by diuine inspiration foretelleth thinges to come, and discouereth such things as are hidden, and that can not be knowne by mans witte or cunning, these are called Prophets and séers. This worde Pro­phete also signifieth a Doctor, or teacher, not euerye Doctor, but him that is sente by God to instructe the Churche, and to reforme it, being better reple [...]ished inwardly in spirit, thā furnished with worldly know­ledge,The differēce betwene the Prophete and the Doctor. and in this poynt is the Prophet different from him that is but simply a Doctor, for the Prophet, tea­cheth onely heauenly things, and the Doctor embra­ceth also humaine sciences, and the artes liberal: the Doctor may teache, those things, which he hath lear­ned out of bookes, and at the mouth of men. But the Prophete must be inspired of God, and instructed in the hard meanings of the scriptures, the better to ex­pound them. In this Heauen sawe I, both sortes of Prophetes, sauing that,The Popes Prophetes are not inspired by God. neyther those that fortolde things to come, nor those that taught religion to the Church, were not inspired by God, nor by the spirite of Christ, but by the Prince of darknesse, and the spi­rite of Sathan. And they that foretolde the thinges to come, were Wysardes, Southsayers, Sorcerers, Enchanters, Negromancers, Astrologiens, and such as followe the damnable art Magique, among the which, there were Popes, Cardynalles,A blessed companie if a man should rake Hell. Byshops, Abbottes, and all sortes of Friers, but moste chiefely the Friers of Saint Dominick, and Saint Fraunces, who with socery & witchcrafte, (the which they chief­lye apply) learne euill and deuilish artes.

This thing is moste true, for a man maye read, that [Page 62] Siluester the seconde, gatte to be Pope by the helpe of the Diuell, & with this condition, that after his death he shoulde be wholly the Diuels owne. And in our dayes Paule the third called Pope Farne se or Fran­sie whether ye will,A vertuous studie of a ho­ly Father. in Astrologie and diuination hath not left his lyke behinde him.

It is no lye at all, and therfore, bicause he woulde haue a compa­nion in this arte, he made Denis a Frier of the order called Serui, Like will to like. a Cardinall. And this Paule chalengeth the praise of this art wholly to himselfe, and by good reason is it due to him, for in this arte he hath spente al his lyfe. But a man can not say whether by this his art, he could tell aforehand what would come to passe when he sente to wake the waspes of Germanie, that were on sléepe.

I beleue right well, that in this poynt, he is yet still wyde, and deceyued in his Almanacke which he accompteth his Gospell.

Thinkest thou then, that by his art he can tell whether he must goe when he is dead?

I do not beleue, that he thinketh therevpon, for he in Rome, it is certainely sayde, that he beleueth that the soule is mortall:The Pope doubteth of the immorta­litie of the soule. and I in his talke haue ofte tymes perceyued it.

Yet dothe not Peter Levves his sonne doubte, that the soule is immortall.

Yet yea, no more than the Epicures and the Sa­duce is, and his Father,Quali [...] Pater talis filius. and also Cardinall Chietti al his whole lyfe doth witnesse.

Iust euē so, and sithe we are nowe come to talke of Cardinall Chietti, me thinketh, he is well worthye to be num­bred among the Prophets of this heauen.

And for what occasion?

I will tell thée the whole matter A Gentleman of Venice, fel in conten­tion with his wyfe vpon a certayne doubte to be de­clared [Page] in foro conscientiae, the matter was suche as troubled them both,A very pro­per practise not vnlyke the deuises vsed by the holy mayde of Kent. the woman being more curious than the man, as women lightly haue spiced conscien­ces, was the first that would be cleared of this doubt, she goeth to the Church of these Chiett [...]ines, and there confesseth hir selfe to one of them, that was a subtill Ipocrite, openeth all the matter, and prayeth him to resolue her of this doubt, he did as well, as he could, then goeth he to the Arch Ipocrite Chietti, The Knaues will tell tales out of the schole. himself, and openeth to him the whole confession, (as it is the olde vse of so many as be Chiettines) when he had wel vnderstode it, he commaunded him to be secrete, and finding out the resolution thereof in the Canon law, marked the place, and taried til this gentleman came vnto him, who was wonte to come for like matters to him very often, the morowe after he came, and be­ing alone with Chietti, after foure or fiue words, whē he was comming to his demaund, that did so burthen his conscience, Chietti commaunded him to holde his peace, tooke him by the hande, put his hande into the booke, and shut it fast in the place which he before had marked for that purpose: and then byd him tell his tale, and when he had ended, this Coll Prophete Chietti sayd to him,Marke the knauerie of this Coll Pro­phete. looke there, where you haue your hande, the Gentleman opened the booke, reade, and founde that he sought for, and not thinking that any other creature had knowne it but his wy [...]e, forthwith fell downe on his knées, and worshipped him, as it had bene an other Christ,These knaues haue manye such knackes in their Bou­gets. that had knowne the secretes of mens hearts.

I know a thousande other such trickes of blinde prophecies, whereby learning the secretes of simple siely soules, they shewe thereby themselues so be Prophets. For the great profite ther­fore, [Page 63] which they get thereby, do they with suche rage séeke to mayntayne this confession.

If thou knowe a thousande, I knowe ten thousande. But bi­cause there is at this present other matter to talke of, we will retourne to speake of these Prophetes, which there had the charge to teache religion. They taught no maner things y^• were heauēly,No true Pro­phets. but things worldly, nay rather Deuilish: and sought to please men, and praised themselues, and their owne things, and ad­uaunced them vp to heauen, & to conclude, they were all of those of whome the Lorde by his Prophete com­playneth,Iere. 14. saying: They preach lyes vnto them in my name, I haue not spoken with them, neyther gaue I them any charge neyther did I send them. Of whome oure onely Mayster and Sauiour Iesus Christ, war­neth his Church,Math. 7. saying: Bevvare of false Prophetes that come vnto you, cladde in shepes clothing, but in­vvardly they are rauening Wolues, ye shall knovve them by their fruites. Loe, the Lorde sayth playnely vnto vs, that we should beware of them. And bicause we shoulde not be deceyued, he teacheth vs to knowe them by the fruits they work. What maner of fruits those be, of the Court of Rome, The goodnesse of these Ro­mish fruites. & of all the followers therof, how bitter, rotten, Worme eaten, sowre, ful of poyson, and how muche to be auoyded, euery man may without controuersie confesse. From these ther­fore we ought to beware, by the commaundement of our Lorde and Sauiour, who shall say vnto them in the day of iudgement. I neuer knevv you, Luc. 13. depart frō me you that vvorke vvickednesse.

Let vs therfore let them alone. But whether wentest thou afterwarde?

We went into a maruellous great courte,The court of the Popes heauen. which had many rowmes seuered one [Page] from an other, where satte most seuere Iudges, there were many matters treated of, and there was suche a scolding among the Proctors and aduocates, that de­maūding, who those Iudges were, I could not heare, what answere was made me.

Howe didst thou to vnderstande it afterward?

I with­drew my selfe a little out of the noyse, and then I as­ked.

Who coulde tell thée the order and forme of that Courte?Iust iudge­ment and voyde of feare when sentence was giuen a­gainst the Diuell.

A Deuill against whome his matter passed, wente his waye iombling to himselfe.

Who did he saye that these Iudges were?

He spake Gréeke, I vnder­stoode him not well, whether he sayde, they were A­postles or Apostates.

I did neuer beleue before nowe that there were Diuels in Heauen, nor that there was any néede of other aduocates, than of Christ.

Whence doest thou gather this o­pinion?

Out of the middes of the Gospel.

Art thou of a popish Lawyer so sone become a Gospeller?

Thou art cause therof, that hast warned me to search the Scriptures.

Tell me therefore the place.

I remember Christ sayeth, that he is the Iohn. 14. vvay, the truth, and the lyfe, if Christ be the truth, and if he beAct. 10. Iudge of the quicke and the deade, as the Scripture sayeth, what néede is there then of so manye aduocates? for by the lawes I terme y^• the aduocate is not ordeyned for any other purpose,The office and duery of an aduo­ [...]ate. than to enforme y^• Iudge of the truth, wherby I conclude mine argument, that if the Iudge be the very truth it selfe, what néede is there of any to declare the same vnto him?

If I shal shew vnto thée, that in this place this worde Aduocate is as much to say as Mediator, howe wilte thou aunswere [Page 64] me?

Paule sayeth, that we haue an1. Iohn. 2. ad­uocate appointed vs by the Father, to be a1. Timo. 2. Media­for vs towarde him. In an other place, the father say­eth, that Christ is his vvelbeloued sonne, in vvhome onely he is pleased. Maht. 3. If Christ be appointed by the fa­ther to be a Mediator for vs, and if Christ onely be ac­ceptable to God, wherefore will we séeke other aduo­cates? Do not we commit great iniurie to the father and to the Sonne,Great iniurie done to Christ when any o­ther aduocate is sought. putting in his place, an other ad­uocate, as though he were more acceptable to the Fa­ther, than Christ, or if he were more sufficient than Christ. Are not we verye fooles in that we will haue those to be our aduocates, that haue néede of an aduo­cate themselues? Christ onely is righteous, and all men are sinners. And this is it that Saint Iohn say­eth in his canonicall Epistle,1. Iohn. 2. My little ones, if any man sinne, vve haue an aduocate vvith the Father Ie­sus Christ the righteous: If there were other aduo­cates, they had néede to pray for themselues, for they also had néede to be made righteous: But Christ on­ly is the aduocate that is righteous, and hath no néede to praye for himselfe, butIohn. 17. prayeth onely for vs, all other had néede to pray for themselues, and to sacrifice for themselues: and their prayers and sacrifices are not perfect,Heb. 10. therefore are they often tymes renewed. But Christ hath once onely and for euer prayed, and sacrificed for vs, and for his owne merite sake hath bene heard.

Oh Marforius, this disputati­on of thine, maketh me thinke, that thou are no more Marforius, and I hope surely, that this nexte spring thou wilt, as the serpents doe, cast thine olde skinne.

I desire with the Gospellers, and not with the serpentes,Math. 10. to cast awaye mine olde learning.

[Page]That is it, that at Easter the petie shauelings were wont to yel [...] out to the grosse and Ignorant people, in a tongue that neyther parte vnderstoode.

And good reason it is, that to him that vn­derstandeth not, things be spoken, yea and not vnder­stoode by them that speak them.

But now let vs follow on our story.

I desire it much.

Heardest thou not what was done before these Iudges.

I heard, but I haue forgot­ten to aske thée, what allegations they bring forth in defending their causes: doe they vse Bartolus, Bartolus and Baldus. and Baldus, and suche other spill causes to set men togi­ther by the eares?

I wyll tell thée, the Iudges giue not sentence, when they haue heard the matter, as they do with vs, but euen as if they had heard neyther party, they sende them both to the ba­launce to be tryed.

What is that balaūce?

In the middes of this Courte, standeth a great Saint,Saint Mi­chaell wayer of soules. that is wynged, and in the one hand he holdeth a huge payre of Balaunce, and in the other hande a sworde, and when the matter hath bene well brawled,A vengeance craftie aduo­cate that could match the Deuill. before the Iudges betwéene the Deuill and the Aduocate, they come to this Saint, as to an Ar­bytratour who setteth his balaunce euen, and in one of them the aduocate putteth all his clients things, as Masses, Bulles, Pardons, Prayers, sundry seruices of our Lady,Masses and such trash shewed forth in euidence. and of the holye crosse, and Dirges for the dead, Beads, Rosaries, Pilgrimages, Fastings, Fri­ers Hoods, Friers Coates, as gray, whyte, asure, and blewe: vowes, abstinences, whipping of themselues, garments of haire, and such like Trumper [...]e, and in the other scale of the balaunce, they put the wretched [...]ely soule, and to this scale of the balaunce to make [Page 65] it way the more, taketh hold and hangeth fast a foule great Deuill and a fatte, such as commonly the Pri­ors and Prouincialles of the Friers are.

O what a craftie parte is that,The crafte of the Diuell. méete in déede for the Deuill, that to make the balaunce waye the more, hangeth thereat rather a fatte Deuill than a leane.

Nay this is not ynough, for that Deuill that clingeth so fast, shaketh, stirreth, and moueth the cordes of the balaunce, puncheth the soule, and doth all that he can to make his parte way downe the hea­uier.

And that great winged Saint what doth he when he séeth this?Michaell bea­teth the deuil.

Then is he in a great rage, and layeth vpon the Deuill flatling with his sworde, and threateneth him with a redde Crosse that he weareth on his breast, where vpon the Deuill coucheth and is somewhat more still, hanging downe his heade lyke the Fox, that the country man ouer ta­keth from whome he had stolne a Henne, and though he be well beaten, yet letteth not goe his Henne for al that.

A prety similitude, but what follow­eth then of this waying?

If the workes way downe, then is the soule ledde with great pompe to some one of those places aforesayde,Great honor and ioy, when the Pope win­neth a soule. and there is cō ­mitted to the chiefe gouernour, who placeth him, ey­ther higher or lower, according as he hath deserued, but if the Deuils parte of the balaunce waye more, he goeth straight to Hell or to Pagatorie.

Why callest thou it Pagatorie?

Bicause the rude country people,Purgatorie iustely called Pagatorie. and such as is voyde of witte and vnderstanding pay swéetely, to be deliuered from that horrible and fearefull inuention.

I vnderstande thée, but tell me the name of the wayer.

They sayde it was Saint Michaell.

[Page]Is that he that they sayde was in loue with aMichaell in loue with a Bul, looke Le­genda aurea. Bull in the hill of Garganus?

It is euen he.

Is he not weary of so hatefull an office?

Yes sometyme, but that country man that gaue the name to the hill Garganus at tymes helpeth him.

What, did a man of the countrye giue the name to that hill?The fable of Saint Micha­ell.

So is it to be read in y^• historie of Saint Michaell.

How can this hang together, for it is to be séene that long before this fable of Saint Michaell was heard of or knowen, this name of the hill Garganus was? as I remember I haue séene in the Poete Lucanus, Lucanus the Poete. who sayeth. In Pulia a hill that Gargan hight into the sea doth reache.

That is out of doubt, for I a­leaged also this verse once against a Frier, who had in the Pulpit recited this foolish tale, and he aunswe­red me, hauing nothing else to say, your Poetes (ꝙ he) are all lyers.

O what a wise answere he made,Fryers and lyers shaped both in one moulde. méete and worthie for a Frier, nay rather wor­thy of halfe a dosen good stripes with a quodgell: and what sayedst thou to him agayne.

I looked about me, if I coulde finde anye thistles, to giue the Asse for his labour,Draffe good ynough for Hogges. for this kinde of beastes, if a man giue them any deintier meate, they can not sauour it, and suche as they sauoure not, they vtterly dispise.

Couldest thou tel by any meanes, whence this same Saint Michaell had his beginning?

Euen from the verye ignoraunce of Friers.

Peraduenture it is fayned, as thou haste sayde before of Saint Christofer?

Euen so it is.

Why then, vnder this representa­tion or Image, is conteyned somewhat else, than that which is outwardly séene?

Yea out of doubt.

And what is it?

Gods iustice, for so did those aunciēt Christians,Saint Mi­chael [...] fable▪ a figure of Gods Iustice. set forth this same, taking it from the Gentils, who did almost in the selfe same sort, set forth iustice.

What the Di­uell meaneth it, that they haue chaunged so holy a re­presentation into so foolishe and wicked a fable?

Bicause the worlde hath giuen so great au­thoritie vnto these lying Friers,The worlde abused by Friers. that al maner of fals­hoode is both beleued and graunted to, at their hands.

I maruell muche at this one thing, that the Christians haue suffered themselues hitherto, to be so mocked with these false and foolish histories,

I knowe not howe it commeth to passe, but I am sure, if Lucian had knowne them,Lucian. he would haue put them in his booke De veris narrationibus. And e­uery man woulde haue laughed at them. But bicause the Friers say, and affirme, that Saint Michaell had to doe with a Bull in the hill Garganus, all men take it for the Gospell,What the Gospell cau­seth. or rather to be better beleued than the Gospell, for the Gospell maketh vs to perceyue and vnderstande their lyes and deceytes, and it com­maundeth vs to beware of them, and not to beleue them, and yet for all that, are they beleued. For there is not in the world any thing so farre past all beliefe, that being spoken by the Friers,Friers vse vi­olent persua­sions. is not fully & wholly credited. And if any man doubt therof, they crye, that we rather ought stedfastly to beleue, than to go curi­ously searching,Beati qui non rid [...]runt et credideru [...]t. or else they cry, downe with him for he is an Heretique.

I will therfore, from hence forth stedfastly beleue, that they are all false Knaues, rather than go search whether they be so or no.

Thou shalt do well so. But for to fol­low our historie, I tell thée, from this courte, which [Page] was very great, we went to the Pallace, which was in the middest,The Pallace of the Popes Heauen. and in the highest part of the Citie, this Pallace séemed not to be very olde, but a man might sée, that it was begonne with so great cost, y [...] it could not as yet be finished, euen as Saint Peters Churche at Rome that hath filled so many Popes Purs [...]es, the fashion of this Pallace was like to that of the Coliseo, The fashion of it. but yet with this difference, that it was all couered ouer.

It muste néedes therefore be verye darke.

It was in déede excéeding darke,The Popes Saints can not abide the light. but knowest not thou that the Saints of this Heauen can abide no light, and rather will they haue the light of Candels, than of the sonne? For as soone as we were entred in, we saw, all things smoked with the lay of the Candels & Lampes, and the walles & the Pillers, were laden with little painted tables of vowes, & with Golde and Siluer.

This séemeth to me to be an Alchimistes shoppe.The Popes heauē resem­bled to an Alchimistes shoppe.

There was one­ly one difference betwéene them, for this place was full of Gold and siluer in déede, which the Alchimistes haue not. And to say more, in the heart of the Pallace in a highe seate sate a Quéene, of a duskishe coloure, which had at her backe the Sonne,The Sonne and the Mone shine both at once. and at her féete the Moone.

Howe can it be therefore, that the place should be so darke, as thou sayest, if there were both the Sonne and the Moone?

I will tell thée how it can be. This Sonne that closeth ye Quene, hath not his beames at libertie,Straunge vertue of Bead [...] that can darken both Sonne and Mone. for if it had, out of doubt it would giue light to all the whole place.

And what letteth it?

This Sonne is compassed about with a payre of Beads, the which, Saint Dominicks Friers haue put rounde about it, so y^• it can not spread forth his light: & for this cause [Page 67] the place remaineth dar [...]e, and néedeth candels and lampes.

What payre of Beades is that?

It is that,The discrip­tion and vse of Beades. which they call our Lady Psal­ter, that which the hoggish herde of Friers, do also cal the Bosarie, that with the which the Paternosters, or rather the Anemaries, are giuen by tale to God, nay rather to the Deuill, that which euery foolishe woman caryeth in her hande, when she goeth out of her dores in the morning, that which is sayde more with the hands then with the heart, that which is paynted al­wayes in the hande of Ipocrisie,Ipocrisie al­wayes carieth Beads. that which souldiers make more conscience to leaue of, than they do to kill a man, that is it.

I vnderstand thée well. I haue béene also of this opinion hitherto my selfe, that he coulde not be saued, which had not mumbled ouer his Beades, at the least once euery daye. But I maruell yet of an other thing, howe is it possible, that the sonne which is so great (as they y^• write of the Ma­thematicall sciences affirme) can be comprehended in so little a space, and about a Quéene, it muste néedes be, that that Pallace shoulde be an other worlde, and that that Quéene should be mōstrously great without measure, if this could be.

Thou must vn­derstande, that there is a great difference betwéene that Sonne and the Moone, which we sée in this world, and them that clothe this Quéene.

If there be that difference, which is betwéene a thing that is true, and a thing that is fayned, it is very great.

Thou hast hit the truth.

Followe on the rest sith I vnderstand this so wel. In this great Hall, al full of benches (as that is of the great counsel at Venice),The Counsell of all Saints. was assembled a counsell of all sortes of Saintes, a number infinite

Came they [Page] therefore in this heauen call [...] Counsell without anye businesse: and in earth neither by somoning, nor no other way, can it assemble?

Yea, but the cause is, that these Saintes doubt lest if there shoulde be a counsell called in earth, there shoulde somewhat be done in it, that might not wel please them: but in their counsell,The scope and end of their counsell. there is no daunger at all for them, for all with one will and careful studie séeke to maintaine and increase their Kingdome, and (if it were possi­ble) to ouerthrowe the Kingdome of Christ. It is true in déede that in the olde tyme,Why in olde tyme so many counsels were so easily cal­led. counselles were easely called togither in earth, and for this cause, for that there was not one, that tooke Christes part, or if he toke his part, durst discouer himself, for then would they haue burned him quicke, as they did Iohn Husse and Ierome of Prage, and manye other, bicause they defended the truth of the Gospell against the falsehode of Poperie:Why counsels in these dayes can not be as­sembled. But now, that they sée a good parte of the people of Christendome, and of other nations, haue a good opinion of Christ, and an euill of the Pope and his followers, they are so Slowe to the counsell, that thoughe the Emperour desire it, and all the worlde looke for it, yet can it not be had: in so great hatred haue they y^• truth, for feare, that it be not knowen a­broade. I speake not this, as if the good and Godlye men had néede of counsels, nor of the helpe of men, but bicause their doctrine should be knowne for true, holye,The effect of [...]unsels. and godly as it is, and bicause it shoulde not seeme, that they fly, or auoyde the remedies of strife and contention, vsed by those of old tyme, and bicause the consciences of the weake shoulde be satisfied, and last of all that hauing Campofranco. That is to saye frée ground, they may enter into the listes to combate [Page 68] with their aduersaries, armed, not with yron nor stéele, but with the sacred Scriptures, and the holye ghost▪ and there staying al deceyte and falsehoode, make the truth open and manifest. But as for the godly, they haue had the counsell of Iesus Christ, with the ioynt assent of all the holy Apostles,Verbum do­miniman [...] in eternum inspired by the holy Ghost, the which counsell shall endure for euer. But in this Popishe counsell are gathered together the Kings of the earth, the chiefe Priestes and al sorts of these Saintes,Psal. 2. against the Lorde and Christ his Sonne.

A man may sée in effect, that the Pope will néedes haue the counsell kept at Trent, to the which for all that, the Dutchmen neuer resorted.

Howe can it be Marforius, that y^• shouldest not vnderstand the subtiltie and falshood of the Pope? knowest thou not, that when two will fight the com­batte togither,Equalitic woulde be v­sed in tryall of waightie matters. it is first requisite that they haue frée grounde, and that then they be in Armour, Horsses and in euerye other things equall, that the one haue not one iote of aduauntage of the other? Tell me, wouldest thou goe to fight with thine enimy, at home in his owne house, with disaduauntage, nay rather when thou couldest not occupie thine owne weapons, nay, with one, who beside that he is thy mortall eni­mie, were both the one party that shoulde fight, and also Lorde of the soyle wherein the listes are? The Pope kepeth his counsell at Trent, and to whome belongeth Trent? to a member of the Popes, and be­side that, it is subiect to Ferdinando, a most bitter per­secutour of the Gospell. Beholde for the first parte,The Pope ne­uer fighteth on euen hand. there is no frée grounde, then afterwarde, that this counsell is kept, where the Pope beareth so great a swaye and maintayneth his tirannicall authoritie, the [Page] which while it endureth, there is no speaking against him, and he that speaketh against him, is but a deade man: And thoughe they graunted saufeconductes, they breake them as faithlesse people, couering them­selues with their curssed lawes, which saye, that pro­mise must not be kept with Heretiques,Who be He­retiques, and who be no Heretiques after the popes iudgement. and they call Heretiques, not such as speake against the Gospel, as they doe, but such as speake against their curssed con­stitutions. And I wil tel thée further, that the Dutch­men haue discouered all this geare, and if they had gone to the councell, they had bene dispatched out of the waye,The Dutch­men first smel­led out the Popes craftie conueyaunce. & thou wouldest néedes haue them go home to there Enemies, which is Lorde of the listes? but to hold a councel in a frée place, and with equall match, they will not heare of.

In déede thou say­est the truth. But in this councell of Saints that thou speakest of, didst thou come in.

I came in, I sawe and heard all the whole.

But how did they suffer thée so to doe?

They coulde not sée me, for my good Angel as long as pleased him, had made me inuisible.

What heardest thou in the beginning?

All cryed with one voyce,The song of the Popes Saints. Let vs breake their bondes, and cast awaye their yoke from vs.

What bonds? what yoke ment they.

The bonds of peace & loue, & the yoke of our Maister & Sauior Christ, that is to say his doctrine, for he sayeth,Psal. 2. Take my yoke vpon you. &c.

Why,Math. 11. & did they séeke to break, so sweete and holy bandes? and to cast awaye so light and so pleasaunt a yoke?

Yea, for to the wicked and to the euill lyuers, the precepts of righte­ousnesse are bitter and vnpleasaunt, but vices are to them swéete and pleasaunte, and vnder the colour of [Page 69] well doyng, they followe all maner of wickednesse.

This do I know right wel, but what other thing were they doing?Politique fetches vsed in the Coun­sell.

They were trea­ting howe they might bring Germany into the lappe of the Romishe Church, eyther for loue, money, or by force.

Speake they nothing of deceites and treasons?

These men rather do them, than talke of them. Then called they for one Saint Ioyce, Saint Ioice patrone of fruitefull succession. and they all besought him, that he would cause the Princes of Germany to haue many sonnes.

For what occasion?

To the ende, (the better to maintayne so many sonnes in estate and reputation,) they should be constrayned to séeke at the Popes handes, some good benefice, Bishopricke, or Cardinalship.

I haue hard say, that ma­ny Flemings goe to this Saint Ioyce, who hath a Church in Fraunce, that they maye haue children, and they spéede of their purpose.

It is true,Spiritually begotten chil­dren meete to maintaine the Popes spiritu­al kingdome. for whyle they be on their voiage, saint Ioyce vseth y^• priests and Friers as instruments with their wiues. They were treating also, howe the learned men of Germanie, might be corrupted with rewardes & with letters, and with the deuises of certayne Cardinals, that séeme to be better learned, and better than y^• rest. But that which in this counsell with greatest studye was sought to be prouided for,The weighti est matter of all the coun­sell. was to cause the Pope forthwith, without any other consideration, to giue al his whole help to Charles y^• fifth, for they doubt much that Charles wyll fall to some agréement with the Lutherans, Charl [...]s the [...] suspected by the Pope. to the great hurte of this heauen, or else least the Lutherans shoulde haue the better hande, which if it shoulde come to passe, eyther the one way, or the other, this heauen is ouer throwen and destroy­full [Page] and whole. They were treating also, that great aide should be giuen to Ferdenando, who hath a great many children,Ferdenando vpon condi­cion shal haue ayde from the Pope. and a sore warre euē at hand, and hath his dominion very weake, but with this condiciō, that he shoulde fal to playe, make warres, vse good chéere, earely and late, and suche lyke things, rather than to the studie of searching out the truth, naye that he shoulde rayther put to death all suche as confesse it, and after this sort shoulde bring vp his children: and besyde all this, that he shoulde not kéepe in his Court other than such as Faber, Ecchius, and Hosius.

Thou must not maruell,Popishe Doc­tors. that these spitefull (I would haue sayde spirituall) men, will not haue men, and chiefely Princes, to meddle with holy scripture, for their heauen is builded altogether vpon ig­noraunce,The Popes heauen buil­ded vpon Ig­noraunce. and wouldest thou haue them desire anye other thing, than Ignoraunce to al other men, which is the mother of all errors and euill? Of pleasures I speake not,Ignoraunce mother of all errors. for therein they farre excéede Sardanapa­lus, and Zerxes. But aboue al other things, the due­tie of a king or Prince is, to feare God, and defende the true religion,The duetie of a king. which is contayned in the Gospell, to loue wisedome, and in al goodnesse and good gouer­naunce of himselfe, to be so muche the more better, than other, as he is higher in degree and dignitie, and yet for all this, is euery one of them become a grea­ter persecutour of the Gospell, than any Nero: for the which, they shall haue of God their iust punishment, and soner than they thinke for. But what, was there nothing determined concerning Fraunces the French King?

They were al of this opinion to send him some Flatterer,Fraunces the French King. or other stale courtier, throughly instructed with the fine fetches of the court of Rome, [Page 70] who for euery thing that the king shoulde doe, or say, were it neuer so foolishe or euill, shoulde saye, oh well done Sir, and to cause him still to remember the ti­tle of most Christian King, which his progenitors re­ceyued from the Bishops of Rome, & therefore should with all his power defende the dignitie of those that gaue so goodly a title, and if he woulde that the name of moste christian King shoulde be truely verefied on him, he should not fayle to persecute Christians euen to the death, vnder the colour of Heretiques, and Lu­therans, and those that are contrarie to such as gaue him that title. For other things, that he shoulde fall to dauncing,The Popes counsell to Kings and rulers. to banketting, to serue Venus, and to hunting, rather than to fauoure learning, as it sée­med, he would doe.

Let him beware that the fyre of the Lutherans (that he hath burned) do not kindle and burne vp his whole realme. He,Marke howe Pasquine pro­phecieth of Fraunce. and other princes his followers shoulde take héede, how many kings there haue bene, (that soner than they thought for) hauing washed their handes, in the bloude of the Martiyrs of the highe Lorde of all, haue bene by him sharply punished: for the very ashes of them that haue bene persecuted and haue dyed for Christes sake,Apoc. 20. crye vengeaunce. But if he wil appease Gods wrath,The way to appease Gods wrath and be worthily called most Christian King, let him cause Christes pure Gospel, to be fréely set forth within his realme, let him caste downe Images, let him restore the true vse of the Sacramentes, Ioan. 4. and vvorship God vvith spirite and truth, and not with the handes, nor with incense. And so say I, of other Princes, if they will be (truely) Christians, and if they will not euen shortly feale the scourge of God, who hath giuen them power, to the ende they shoulde defende his Gospell, [Page] and not y^• they should persecute such as defend it.

Were not these Saints affeard,Auignion vsurped by the Pope. that the King woulde take agayne Auignion from the Pope, and the other places, that he vsurpeth, or that he woulde giue ayde to the Lutherans in this warres: or else would do these Saints some other harme?

They doubted this nothing, all the whyle the King was in league with the Turke,Machomet and the Pope are brothers. for Machomet and the Pope are brothers, and hereby thou mayest perceyue it, that when the Turkes armie passed along the Sea coastes, of the Popes dominion, it did there no maner hurt, nor domage: but rather good, but if the French King shake off the league with the Turke, then are they in a wonderfull suspicion.The King of Englande.

What was sayde of the King of Englande?

They were sore in doubt least other Princes woulde follow this Kings example in taking away the possessions of the Church.

Is it lawfull to doe it?

Yea, if it be done, to put them to better vse, naye rather,How the pos­sessions of the Church shuld be bestowed. Princes are bounde to haue regarde, that the possessions of the Churches vnder their sub­iection be dispensed to the pore, impotent, for the ma­riage of honest maydens, to the godly ministers of y^• true Churches, and not to lying Fryers and idle priests, enimies to the Gospel, as thou mayest sée, In Codice Iurisconsultorum. And saint Paule sayeth, [...]. Thess. 3. He that laboreth not let him not eate. The same do I say also, of the treasures of the Church, as vessels, veste­ments, Images of Golde and Syluer, Iewels, bā ­ners, crosses and such lyke, which eyther idle priests and Fryers (enimies of the pure gospell of Christ) do enioy, and eyther do vnprofitably reserue for ambiti­on, consume in letcherie, or else for superstition doe [Page 71] worship.

I surely thinke that these posses­sions were left to the Churche,Why possessi­ons were giuē to the Church. to the ende they should be disposed in such sorte as thou haste sayde: and to say y^• truth, what doth Gold in the Churches? as that Poet sayde. But was there any other thing in doing.

It was decréed to encrease the number of the Cardinals, & to cause that of al the chief houses of Italie, A pollicie vsed to preserue the Popes Kingdome. and else where abroade, there shoulde alwayes one or other of them be a Cardinall, by this mecanes to kéepe them alwayes in the deuotion of the Church of Rome, the which they nowe, through the reading of holye Scriptures, beginne to knowe and forsake,The reading of the Scrip­ture bringeth knoweledge. that they may enioye the libertie of the Gospel. But aboue all other things, that their shoulde be alwayes vj. or .iiij. at the least of the Venetians, Cardinals, and this they ment, bycause they knowe,Why so many Venetiās are made Cardi­nalles. what a number of those Senatours are wyttie men, and of profound iudgement, doubting least they should slip their heads out of the coller, and most of all, seing that sacred Se­nate, (when it hath bene often tymes by the Popes Legates, pricked forward to the destruction, & slaugh­ter of their vessels, bicause they withdraw themselues from the Popes tyrannie) hath shewed euidently that they take more care of their true,Carefull ma­gistrates ouer their people. and faithfull sub­iects, than to haue giuen eare to the presumption of him that taketh vpon him to commaund them.

Thou hast told thy tale, but I haue heard say, that they bury men quicke.

How doe they burie them quick?

Thrusting them into prisons, as into graues.

The Legate con­dem [...]neth them, and not they.

Truely I muche maruell, sith there hath bene at no tyme any power so great, that hath bene able by force to s [...]b­due [Page] them, they wil for al that so wilfully submit them­selues to the seruice of the Pope,The Pope a­buseth al ma­gistrats. and suffer for his sake that within their Territorie, Iustice shoulde be defaced or blemished, which being driuen from all men, is come to séeke succours at them.

I would vnderstande thée better, and then I will aun­swere thée.

They are great Lordes,The Pope ma­keth all Prin­ces his But­chers and hangmen. and neuer knewe what bondag [...] meant, and yet they suf­fer that a vyle scuruy priest shall in their owne domi­nion giue sentence against their subiectes, and they muste execute other mens sentences. Thinkest thou that this is not great bondage? I speake not of the Tenthes of their Dominion, the which they giue the Pope,The great iustice of the Venetians. and many things else. And furthermore, there is not a man condempned in that iuste Citie, that is not iudged by fortie Iudges, neither is there any one so euill or heynous an offendor, but maye alleage for himselfe the best he can, and yet they suffer, that a le­gate onely,The spiritual­tie doth rule & raigne eche where. shall condempne whome he lyste, and the person accused, shall not come to his purgacion, for this false Iudge refuseth the Testimonies of thē that speake in the defence of him that is accused, and allo­weth such, as for hatred or any other dampnable occa­sion speake euill against him. And they perceiue not y^• if I beare displeasure to one, I may go and accuse him to the Legate, of heresie, and cause him to be banyshed, or committed to some place to abyde during his lyfe, and forfeyte his goodes, and yet shall not he haue once so much fauour,Truth can not be heard where such [...]irannie r [...]ygneth. as to say for himselfe what he can, & peraduenture, he is an honest man, & faithfull to his estate. Doest thou not thinke, that it were a thing very requisite for them, to prouide better for this case?

Thou knowest Marorius, y^• there haue euer [Page 72] bene, and shall euer be, membres of Antichrist. And they be the cause of these and such like disorders.Antichrist and his members the cause of disorders. But be thou fast and sure of it, they can not long continue thus, for there are among thē that are very wyse mē, and many more than I speak of, who haue depely con­sidered the great tumults, and the great seditions and flaughters, y^• in times past haue bene in Germanie, for persecuting such as were faithfull subiects & men that in all points were honest, and therefore are very lothe, that the like should come to passe, in their coun­tries, for they sée aforehand, the scourge that God hath prepared for the Emperor and his brother, for these causes.

God knoweth,The Chariti [...] of Pasquine. that I wishe their well doing, as much as any of themselues, & do ther­fore wishe they did as thou sayest, and I woulde haue them thus to consider, that when any of them is made a Cardinall, he should be forthwith banished, for these be they, that cause all their secrets to be knowen to y^• Pope, and are the very occasion that they are kept in such vile bondage.

Doubt not thereof, they will haue greater regard to the publique weale,Good mem­bers of a com­mon wealth. than to their priuate commoditie, and when néede shall be, will leaue all these considerations, and open the waye to all Italie. And the saints of whome we speake, are much in doubt hereof, and do therefore séeke by ma­king many of them Cardinalles, to kepe them styll in bondage, for if they had not had so great respecte to y^• Tyranne the Pope, they shoulde long sithens haue bene Lords of all Italie. The which thing might ea­sily come to passe,By what way the Venetians might become greater. if they would embrace the Gospell of Iesus Christ, the giuer of all power, dominion, & all other good things, as I hope they will.

folowe on I pray thée, the other determinaciōs of this [Page] counsell.

Cōcerning Spaine, it was decre­ed, that the Inquisitors shoulde not henceforth be se­uere with the Marranes who denye the Diuinitie of Christ,Godes eni­mies fauoured and his frendes perse­cuted. but should be most cruell againste the Luthe­ran [...]s, who deny the Diuinitie of the Pope, and most constantly confesse the Diuinitie of Christ.

That is euen as much, as to desire that Barrabas be deliuered,Iohn. 18. and Innocent Christ crucified, but what was else decréed there?Luc. 23.

One thing horrible, fearefull, and to make all Christendome quake.

Alas what may that be?A diuelishe decre of the Popes saintes.

First they decréed to make league with the Turke, to make ther­by all their enemies affearde, and that done to sende all their Angels, through all the parts and Cities of Christendome, and most chiefly, such Angels as sowe wilfull warres, dissentions, deceits, mischieues, & of­fences, and calling therefore one of them, that had the face of a Uirgin, and the féete, and hands of a Lyon, & his bosome full of Serpents: after whome went one laden with weapons, fyre, and sworde, & one of these Gods thus spake vnto hir. O virgin daughter of the night; The oration of one of the Saintes to this Diuell their Messan­ger. take thou this paine for vs, and so vvorke, that our honor & fame do no vvhere decay. Thou that arte able to set louing brothers to cruell vvarre, and fyll al houses vvith mortal hatred, one of an other: thou that canst if thou vvilt, bring into all houses distruction & death: thou that hast a thousand names to colour thy self vvith, & as many vvayes to vvorke mischief, styr vp thy noble heart hereto, that hath suche stuffe in store ouerthrovv the peace that is already made, [...] sovv nevve causes of vvar [...] let eche man crye for vvarre, let euery ma [...] haue his hands full. When the Angell heard this, he promised fully to obeye it, and away he [Page 73] getteth, flying throughe all the seuerall Quéeres of the other Aungels, and out of them tooke all suche, as was skillfull in murthers,The Popes saints fil al the worlde with warres and mischief. deceyts, and all kindes of mischief, & carieth them with him, and part he sendeth into Germanie, parte into Fraunce, and parte into Spaine, and the messanger selfe goeth into Italy.

This is like that, which Iuno in great rage said to Alecto. Sith I can not ( [...] she) moue the gods to pi­ty, I wil stir by y^• diuels to michiefe. But is it possible that these saints be such maner of felowes?

They are much worsse and farre doe passe the wicked spirits & furies of Hell in all kinde of crueltie.

Where then did that furie Alecto abide?

In this Citie,Rome the Di­uels dwe [...]ing place. which hath bene the heade of the worlde, and from hence sendeth his other Aungels a­brode into other townes and places of Italy, and som­time goeth him selfe in person, as to Bologna, to Fer­rara, and leaueth some of his serpents there, to infecte & poyson that place.

Woe be to the worlde therefore, sith so cruell a plague, is sent vnto it: but wherefore do they this?

Firste,The cause of this diuellys [...] decre. for to kin­dle the hatred and wrath of all kings and Princes, a­gainst the defenders of the Gospell, & moreouer, that they being occupied in warres, discords, & discentiōs, shoulde not so muche as thinke vpon the restoring of this decayed religion, not to cal a generall Councell, and they in the meane time, should lyue in pleasures and stand to beholde this tragedie, and enioy the fruit of other mennes harmes, yet reioyce they neuer a whitte, of thys newe warre of Germanie, doubting least it should be turned altogyther vpon their necks.

Oh what a wonderfull blindnesse of men is this, that such as are the causers of so many euils, [Page] of so greate warres, and of so manyfold errors, men ceasse not yet, to call most holy, most blessed, and most reuerend, and to thinke their wayes to be so good and holy, to the which things God send redresse, as ryght néedefull, for the soules of such shéepishe fooles as wyll beleue such maner of people. But say on the rest.

Al these things were written in their Authen­tique Authorities, for a pretie Ganimedes called them all to supper, and so the Councell brake vp. And my good Aungell, sayde to me: Come with me.

Whether led he thée? to the Quéere of Aungels?

No,The Order or Queere of the Aungels. for he told me he had businesse to do, & therefore it behoued him to make haste, and go out of this heauen, but so as we went together, he talked to mée of them.

How are they placed? what be their names?

He tolde me that there is so great a confusion of their names, that with much a do can their offices be rehersed, yet the best he could, he tolde me, & these were their names, Penitentiaries, Procuratours,The [...] orders of the Popes Aungelles. Abbreuiatours, Auditours, Prothono­taries, Chamberlaines, Suffraganes, Abbots, and Cardinalles, euen as a man woulde saye Angels, Archangels, Thrones, Dominations, Principates, Uertues, Powers, Cherubines, and Seraphines. Thus standeth this heauen my Marforius, as thou hast hearde, which when I had vnderstoode, I came my way following my guide.

Thou haste tolde me nothing of Christ,Christ is not in the coun­cell. sawest thou him there in the councel among those Saintes?

I sawe him not, but as I came out afterward, I sawe before the Pallace a little childe that played with certaine o­ther children there,Christ goeth to playe like a childe. of whome, when I had asked, it was tolde me that it was Christ, who fell to playing, [Page 74] and therefore came not to the Councell, for his mo­ther had the whole charge of all things.

Why then is Christ alwayes a childe in this heauen?

Yea alwayes.

Sawest thou any other thing there?

As I went from that place, going for to sée the rest, I founde onely a great voyde market place,The marcha [...] dises of the Popes store houses. whereas were aboue .vj. hunde­red storehouses, or barnes, as great as those that Io­seph builded in Egipt.

What was there in them?

Some of them were ful, but not with corne, but of Waxe, some ful of Copes and vest­ments, some with chaynes, some full of little broken pieces of Golde and Syluer, some other of those store houses, were emptie, and vpon the dores of these emp­tie houses, was set a little writing, that sayde: The storehouses of Germanie, and of Englande: and they were altogether emptie, for it was now a great while, sith any thing was brought into them, and that which was wont to be there, was all spente in almes vpon the Nunnes of Pozzo Bianco, God graunt they be neuer better stored. and Strada Iulia, and o­ther places, but moste of all vpon the marring (I would say marrying) of pore boyes. And whyle I was there,Pasquiue meaneth that our Peter pēs and other our proffits the pope had hens were spent vpō the maynte­nāce of wheres and bardas­ses in Rome loe, there commeth forth the olde man, (that woulde not open the dore vnto me) with his great rus­ty keyes in his hande, and his great euill fauoured myter on his head.

What saide he to thée, I pray thée hartily?

He sawe me not, nor he spake not to me, for he was busie about other things.

What did he?

He went as one all ful of sorrowe, and heauinesse, viewing those store­houses, and other places of the pallace, and he sawe in many places that the walles gaped for the riftes they had, the foundations were so decayed and ruinous, [Page] that all the whole building loked as though it woulde shortly fall.The Popes keyes are the keyes of the storehouses.

I thought first, y^• those keyes had bene the power and authoritie to ass [...]le and con­dempne, but as farre as I could perceyue, they were the keyes of y^• store houses, but wherfore was he so ful of heauinesse?

Wherefore? thinkest thou it a questiō to ask wherfore? he saw the store houses emp­tie, and saw no hope how to fil them, he saw y^• building almost falling, and saw no hope how to repayre it,Gods worde must destroye the Popes heauen. he sawe that not onely Germanie went about (all that it might) to ouerthrowe this his heauen, but almost all Italie had layde hand on the sworde that must destroy it, the which sworde issueth forth of the mouth of the sonne of Man,Apoc. 1. as the Reuelation sheweth. But when I sawe the buylding, in so manye places looke as it woulde fall, I determined not to tarie anye longer there, and by the same way that I came, I retourned backe,Pasquine go­eth out of the Popes heauen and goeth vp to Gods hea­uen. running away from this heauen, as fast as I coulde, for feare it shoulde fall vpon me, hauing yet alwaies my guide with me. And whē we came to the place where our Chariot was left, I gate vp into it, and so we take our way towardes Gods heauen, and mounting vpwarde, mine Aungell tolde me, that he that wil go into the true heauē, must haue his minde pure, and lifted vp, where al things are vnspotted and full of all cleanenesse, and altogither contrarie to the first heauen. And being nowe passed the sphere of the Moone,A wonderful straunge sight as we came to that of Mercurie, we founde a number of soules tormented in sundry sorts, amongs which was one, that was tyed betwene two Postes, with a corde made fast about his middle, so that he hong, and coulde touche no grounde: he had vpon his head two great harts hornes, & betwene the hornes [Page 75] was fastened a linnē cloth, after the maner of a saile, and at his féete hong a great pursse full of crownes, and so went this ghost continually whirling about, for as any winde blew, it stroke in the sayle, that was betwene the hornes, and tourned him with his féete vpwarde, and as the winde ceassed,Pasquine set­teth forth the punishment of the Neuters. the contrepoise of the Pursse tourned him with his féete downe a­gayne, and so the pore wretch was stil whirled about, and one whyle was hys heade and another tyme his héeles turned vp on high to heauen.

Did­dest thou knowe who that was?

I knewe him not, but myne Aungell tolde me, that it was Erasmus of Roterodam.

Alas what is this thou tellest me? and why was he that was so learned, and so honest a man, in this miserable case?

The harts hornes signifie his fearefulnesse, and the Pursse his couetousnesse, which two things were so muche in him, that the one whyle the one, an other whyle the other, made him bowe, now this way, now that waye, so that it coulde not be discerned whether he drewe néerest to Gods heauen, or to the Popes heauen, & therfore is he placed in the middes betwene them both.

In very déede no man muste thinke to hold one foote in heauen & another in earth.Neutralitte must be vtte [...]ly auoided.

O if it were Gods wil, I would this thing were knowen beneath in the earth, that so manye might not goe into that place, where the paynes are much greater, than any man thinketh for.

Thou sayest that there were manye other: who were those?

The most part were preachers,Weather [...] cocks and turncotes are not to be bele­ued. that knowing the truth gaue all laude and prayse to God by Iesus Christ, and al blame and confusion to men, and afterwarde, at a sodaine, for feare of the Inquisi­tour, [Page] they preached of eare confession, of Purgato­rie, of the false authoritie of the Pope, and of a thou­sande other Heresies and deceiptes to their pore hea­rers.

And how wouldest thou haue them doe?

I woulde rather haue them suffer ba­nishement from their country, imprisonment, or shed their bloud, to mayntayne y^• honor of Christ against Antichrist,Certain Itali­ans true chri­stians. as of our country men, Augustine, May­nard, Benardine, Oclime of Siena, Iulius of Myl­laine, Peter Martir the Florentine, Paulus Lazi­sius of Verona, Peter of Cittadella, Baldus of Cher­so, and infinite other, as well Frenchmen and Fle­mings, as Dutchmen and Spaniards also haue done.

I haue hearde say, that there are suche in Fraunce as will holde with the Hare and runne with the Hounde.

It is true, and I knowe one of them, that is a man of great name, vpon whome I feare,Hebr. 6. that the fearefull sentence, that Paule writeth to the Hebrues, wil one day fall, That such as hauing once knovvne and receiued the truth, haue afterward forsaken it, who sayth he, it is not possible that they shoulde repent, nor enioy the kingdome of God, and so doe they offend against the holy ghost, which sinne shall neuer be forgiuen as Christ affirmeth.

Maye he be named who he is?

Whye wouldest thou haue me be affeard to name him, who is not affeard to doe suche iniurie to my Lorde and Sauiour Iesus Christ, and his holy church? he is cal­led Peter de Charles, Peter de Charles a we­ther cocke. he is a Piccarde borne, and hath played many leud partes, in Geneua, and in Losanna. He hath alwayes bene very inconstant, an euil spea­ker, furious in all his preachings, that one whyle hath defended one part, an other whyle an other part, [Page 76] and at an other tyme neyther of them both, one that hath sought to corrupte the Churches euery where, and bicause he coulde not doe as he would among the [...] Svvychers, he ranne to Mets, Farellus a true preacher (where he heard that good man Farellus a sincere preacher, had preached Christ) to take awaye from thence the holesome séede of Gods word, before it should take roote in the hearts of those of the Citie, but let them take good héede what they doe,Num. 22. lest they bring vpon thē the cursse of God, as Balaam did, who was hiered for to cursse.

Now I pray thée, let vs leaue these Ribaldes, knaues, and théeues, wicked and stinking Antichristes, for I can not abyde anye longer to heare them to be spoken of, and followe on thy voyage.

Passing the Sphere of Mercury, The heauenly harmonie. we were caried vp higher thorow other spheres. And there I began more clearely to sée the maruellous workemanship of the circles and bo­dies celestiall, and to tast with mine eares the harmo­nie and most pleasaunt concordaunce, that is caused by the mouing of those circles, the which concordaunce Plato affirmed, and Aristotle denyed, bicause he be­leued rather his corporall senses,Plato and Aristotle differeth in opinion. than the capacitie of the ymagination, and the diligent working of the minde, the which whyle I considered, there came in­to my minde a very sincere and profounde cogitation and thinking of God, as it behoueth such to haue that search these places, euen as myne Aungel (at my first ascending vp thither) had tolde me, and being so occu­pied in beholding the varietie, beauty and swéetenesse of those things, (almost before I was ware therof,) I sawe that I had passed all the planets, and was come to the firmament, whereas there begonne to appeare thinges muche more maruellous.

I am [Page] also, of this opinion, taking myne argumēt from this visible heauen, that those things are much more beau­tifull and maruellous, that are furthest off from the sense of séeing, bicause that they doe most néerest ap­proche to things that are true & heauenly.Christen philosophie.

Thou sayest well Marforius, and I doe not thinke that this is the last or least part of Christian Philoso­phie and diuinitie, that is to saye, to séeke & search out by the things that are creat and subiect to our senses, the great goodnesse, power and wisdome of god, & therfore to praise, & magnifie the maker therof. And ther­fore it is, that certaine foolishe & grosse Fryers, which vnderstand not the working and heauenly cunning of God in al his things (but attende rather to féede their belly, than their mynde) can not loue or haue God in any admiration.The way to knowe God Psal. 19. For by the things created in this worlde, do men come to the knowledge of God, euen as Christ teacheth vs. And Dauid also sayth, That the heauens declare the glory of God, & the firmament shevveth forth his handy vvorkes. And wherby canst thou better knowe God, whether by a stone set vpon an altare that cā neither speake, nor moue, nor be pro­fitable for any purpose, or else by y^e ordre of al things created?The varietie of Gods works declare his greate power. Behold therefore among the Elementes, first doth y^e earth shew forth hir selfe with hir hearbs, floures, frutes, swéete sauours, beastes of so many sorts, so many sundry regiōs, & the natures, & custōes of men so diuers, then the mayne Sea spred about the earth, and within the lande also, for our great cōmo­ditie, with so great diuersitie of Fishes: then if thou consider the nature of the ayre & of the fyre, and also of the mouinges of the planets, and most especially of the Sunne, and of the Moone, so well ordayned for the [Page 77] commodities & nedefull seruice of man. If thou waye all things diligently, thou shalt féele a meruellous de­lectation & singuler pleasure. For the cōsideration and beholding of nature, is a féeding to y^• mind.

I beleue in déede, that through the consideration here­of, mā may approche nerer to God, but yet for al that say they,The P [...]pe would haue his dead I­mages to be our liuely scholemasters. that the stone nor the Image is not to be cō ­sidered, but that thing, which the stone or Image sig­nifieth.

If thou be of that opinion, where­fore doest thou not, when thou wilte haue the Image of Peter, set before thée, some holy Pastor, that maye in conditions, lyfe, and doctrine, be like vnto him, ra­ther than a stone, which can not instructe thée in anye heauenly knowledge, nor can not so much as speake? And euen so, when thou wilte haue the Image of the Uirgin Mary, why doest thou not rather behold some holy yong virgin that moste maye be like hir, rather than a stone wrought by some whoremonger or adul­terer, made ofte tymes to the lykenesse of his harlot?

Thou sayest truth,The dead picture of the vergin Marie liuely coun­terfeited after a Popes whore. knowest thou that pic­ture of our Lady, which standeth ouer the dore of Car­dynall Farnese his chamber, where as sometyme Pope Alexander Borgias dwelled?

Yea.

That same is the natural & liuely coūter­faited picture, of y^c sister of Alexander Farnese, which late was Pope, Paule the thirde, for she was Pope Alexanders cōcubine, & she by her honorable meanes, caused Alexanders Farnese hir brother, to be made a Cardinall, who sithens was Pope, for the greater plague to the worlde.

What thinkest thou by this therefore?

Mary starke nought. But where shall a man finde eyther such a Bishop or such a Uirgin as thou speakest of?

Where? [Page] euen where the gospel flourisheth, where Christ doth bestow his heauenly treasures in these our dayes, as in Svvycherland, Christian Regions. in Sauoy, & in Germany, albeit there wante none in Italie, and in Fraunce, for al that they be oppressed by the Popes tirannie. And I say vnto t [...]ée, that there are in these dayes, through the great goodnesse of God, both women and men, full of holy­nesse, and of the knoweledge of the truth.

God for his great mercy be praysed for it, that giueth so great giftes, and so great light to this our tyme. But if thou thinke good, follow on thy voyage.

When we had passed the firmament,Apoc. 4. we came to the skye of Ise, called the Cristall skie, not bicause that there is any Ise there, but bicause the purenesse of it, is like vnto moste pure Ise, or of moste antique Cristall, and much more also, from thence, we went vp to the highest heauen, and there for the brightnesse of the great light) we were fayne to stay a whyle, that our eyes might begin a little to be enured to abide it, as he doeth that is brought forth vpon a sodaine out of the darkenesse into the sunne shyne, and so hauing a little whyle acquaynted our eyes with that bright­nesse, we began to approche the Citie of the Lorde.The descrip­tion of the true Heauen. I call it a Citie Marforius, for that I knowe not by what other name to call it, for it was rather a whole country, shyning with so great maiestie, that I my selfe am not able with thought, much lesse with tong, to expresse it vnto thée.

Tell me yet, as muche as thou canst expresse of it.

Haste thou euer read the Apocalipse?

Yea, but I vnderstand it not.

Whereas Iohn spea­keth of the City of God, he sayth, That in the middes of the throne sitteth God,Apoc. 5.and the Lamb, hauing sea­uen [Page 78] seales, that is to say, all povver, and dominion o­uer all things that are in heauen and in earth, for in the number of seauen, is contayned the infinite and perfect number. About the throne, are infinite num­bers of Saintes, of all nations, and of all tongues, who singing continually to the most highest, make an harmonie of such swéetenesse, as can not be told.

What sing they?The song of true saintes.

Alleluya, to God onely, and euerlasting, the God of Hostes, great and maruellous, who hath wrought mercy on the worlde by the bloude of the Lambe Christ.

Did they sing all this song?

Yea al Marforius, and him onely did they all beholde, he onely is King, and the ruler of his fathers Kingdome, the aduocate and defendour of all miserable wretches, euen Iesus Christ.

Were there here, no seuerall Quéeres or orders, as in the other heauen?

No,1. Peter. 4. for here is no difference of persons, for as muche as I coulde perceyue, there was a certayne equalitie among them all,Equalitie a­mong the true Saintes. without any enuye, and most aptyly [...]ente to perpetuall continuaunce of that kingdome. This one thing saw I also beside the rest, y^• the Lamb helde his Testament sealed with his owne bloude,Apoc. 5. in the which, all the Saintes were written as heires a­lyke, neyther was there anye one among them that desired to be greatter than the rest, but all with one voyce, song laude and glorye to God onely, and to the Lamb that was offered vp.

And was there none of those things here in this heauen,Christ is the way and the gate to Heauen. that was in the other heauen?

None at all.

And is not then, Saint Peter porter there?

This heauen hath none other gate but Christ,Iohn. 10. who is the way,Iohn. 14. the gate, y^• truth, & the true lyfe, there is here [Page] no maner daunger, but peace, sure and euerlasting. There Michaell, Gabriel, the Cherubi [...]es and Scra­phines, are of an other maner of fashion, than here beneath with vs they are accōpted, or painted. If thou sawest these things, thou wouldest wonder at the fol­ly of men,Dionis [...]us and at the dreames they make of them, and especially of Denis the Areopagite, Areopagita. a d [...]uisour of foolishe thinges, that he neuer sawe nor knowe. God who is euen the same that we call father, is co­uered with a certayne lyght, which no man may at­tayne vnto,1. Tim. 6. euen as it were with a garment. From hence are the ministers of the God of Sabaoth (which are spirites and powers) sente forth, for the saluation of his Churche, nor it is not possible to make any dis­tinction in their Orders and degrées, neyther wyth place, nor with name. For God onely can make dis­tinction of them, when he sendeth them, where it plea­seth him, for they al are as the breath of Gods mouth, all are of fire, all are flying and winged, for the great desire they haue to obey God, vpon whom onely they are bent, and whose wil onely they doe most feruent­ly desire to doe. And in fine, here are all things one, and one all things.

And is there neuer a Quéene there?The Quene of Heauen.

One I saw clothed in that garment, that the Psalme speaketh of. My hart hath indyted a good matter. Psal. 45. Hir espouse was Christ, and I tooke hir to haue béene the virgin Mary, The Quene of Heauen i [...] the Churche and not the virgin Mary. but myne Aungel tolde me, that it was the Church.

Why then, the virgin Mary beareth no rule in heauē?

No but shée for hir part, and after hir ma­ner, adourneth & garnisheth the body of the espouse.

Those things therefore that are sayde of our Lady in the Prime and houres, and other seruice [Page 79] of hirs, doe rather appertayne to the Church, than to the virgin Mary.

That do I well knowe, for I haue sene it is so.

But how cōmeth it to passe, that this Quene, y^• is the espouse of Christ, is so little knowen and estemed among men?

Bycause the Popes haue aduaunced them sel­ues aboue hir,Popes haue vsurped the authoritie of the Churche. and haue vsurped vnto them selues hir authority, and made lawes after their [...]wne deuises, without hauing any regarde vnto hir. And bycause the things should not be applyed vnto them, whiche the holye scripture speaketh of the Church, therefore haue they thrust into the place of the Church, the vir­gin Marye, and haue attributed all things vnto hir, and haue called hir Quéene and Empresse of heauen, and our Aduocate, so that y^• name of the true Quéene is vtterly abolished and lost.

Doest thou remember what this Quéenes apparell was.

I remember it well,The Quenes apparell. she had the whole shewe of a most chaste Matrone, and albeit she consist of dy­uers mēbers,1. Cor. 12. they are notwithstanding with so great proportion ioyned to their heade Christ, that nothing can be more agreable. And this Quéene from day to day was better garnished. And albeit the handfasting haue bene long [...]ithens made, yet is the maryage day looked for to be at the last day, in the whiche all men must ryse agayne.

Truelye, it is a mar­uellous matter,Of mariage. that Priestes doe so much dispise ma­ryage, seing that Christ wyll fynishe his kingdome with the mariage of his Churche.

And I maruell muche at it, but I feare they be no Christ­ans, albeit they haue the name, for they dispyse the ex­ample of christ, vnto y^e which Paule also exhorteth vs saying.Ephe. 5. Ye husbandes loue your vvyues, as Christ lo­ued [Page] his Church.

Whereof commeth it therfore, that we do not content our selues with christ onelye?Io. 1. & 3. & 15.

Bycause the worlde is at that poynt, that it is alwayes contrary to Christ, for euery beast setteth more by straw,Iac. 4. than by gold.

Oh I would it were Gods wil,The worlde contrarie to Christe. that our Countrey of Italy might once haue some vnderstanding, and not be so without knowledge as it is, then woulde it not suffer so many superstitions as it doth, nor peraduen­ture shoulde féele so many warres.

Feare thou not, it is not altogether without knoweledge. The Lorde hath reserued seuen thousande men,3. Reg. 19.that haue not bovved their knee to Baal. Rom. 11.

And doth Christ then rule and gouerne al things, and gi­ueth he no authoritye or charge to his Saintes?

He doth all things him selfe, he onely prepa­reth the place for his Saints,Iohn. 14. they [...]e at rest,The saintes be at reste. wythout busying them selues in any of those things, that are done here beneath. And they are all of one mynde, that Christ be praysed, & that he raigne in all things. So sayth the virgin,Ap. 4. et. 7. Mary so sayth Saynt Peter, so doe the Martyrs, and all the rest. And in the base or lower part of the diuine Maiesty, I sawe written. I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY TO AN OTHER.

Was therein thatEsay. 42. place no diuersity of garmentes?The wedding garment.

No dy­uersity at all,Esay. 61. for all had on the wedding garment, the which out of fayth,Mat. 22. is chaunged into perfect Charity, the whiche here beneath among vs can not be done.

And doth not this worldlye gouernaunce of things come from the true Saintes?

No I tell thée.

Knowest thou whence it [Page 80] commneth.

Yea, I know, it commeth from vncleane spirits, that with gay glorious titles deceiue men Knowest thou not that the Lorde sayde in the Gospel,Antichrist. that Antichrist with miracles should destroy the fayth?2. Thess. 2. and that by Goddes sufferance, that those which beleue not the truth, should be cōfirmed in vn­beliefe. Knowest thou not,3. Reg. 22. that a spirite departed once from the presence of God,2. Para. 18. and sware to become the spirite of lyes, in the mouthes of all the Prophetes of Achab? 2. Cor. 11. And moreouer, it is a thing most certayne, that Sathan can transforme him selfe into an Angell of lyght. And sith there are so many Legerdemaynes, and we so easely drawen to all false Religion, it is no maruell, if so manye fonde dreames be receyued as truth. And doest thou thinke that our mayster Christ and his Disciples,Watchwords giuen in the Scripture. haue without cause, so oftentymes (foreseing these things) cryed vnto vs? Take hede, be­vvare, looke vvell to your selues, consider. 1. Thess. 5. Try all things, & kepe that vvhich is good. 1. Ioh. 4. Try the spirirs, vvhether they be of God or no? Howe many tymes haue these shauelings tolde thée,Demaundes of our Ladie. that the virgin Mary hath appeared, and demaunded of foolyshe men, that Churches & monasteryes shoulde be builded by them for hir? Thinkest thou, that it is to be beleued, that this most modest handmayd of the Lorde, that being of such a singuler humility, and hath the chiefest place in the body of the Church, which is Christes espouse, and that intierly loueth hir espouse, hath at any tyme desired that, which she knoweth doeth belong to hir only espouse? Wherfore hath she not when she so ap­peared, demaūded that the gospel should be prcached? that the Lordes vineyarde should be well looked vnto? [Page] that the Wolues should not be made she pheardes, nor such dogs as can not [...]arke? nay rather these mates will nedes haue hir to fauour and nourish both wol­nes and swyne.

The more thou talkest to me Pasquine, the more is the truth opened vnto me, would god,Marforius wisheth Pas­quine to be Pope. y^• thou were Pope once, that thou mightst cause all these things to be opēly shewed to the whole world, which are in déede no lesse true, than necessary to be knowē.

Thou wishest me a [...]ery good turne Marforius, in that thou wouldest haue me be­come Antichrist. If I were Pope, I shoulde be euen as the rest were, for the Papacye would make me to be as it is, and I should not make it be as I say. And besyde that thou knowest, that they can not abide me.

I wonder much that in so great a scarcity of Gods worke, the people doe not learne of thée, the way to knowe God.

Feare not, for there are so many spiritual scholes,The scholes of Pasquine. both of men and womē, (albeit they be not séene abroade) that euen very short­ly thou shalt sée so many true gospellers come abrode, that the worlde shal much wonder whence they come.

We wil therefore call thée mayster, sithe thou hast so many Christian scholes.Christ the onely May­ster.

The maister of al is christ only, whose doctrine this is that I teach. But to knitte vp our communication, I say vnto thée br [...]e [...]y,Mat. 23. that Christ is the heade of all, & the espouse of the Church.Coloss. 1. And the Churche is made of many and dyuers members,Ephe. 1. et. 4. ioyned together in one, to the which, by the espouse onely, is the waye made vnto the father. There is no maner of ambition, nor desire of the vain & [...] things here on earth, al giue thē selues wholly to prayse god,Apoc. 5. & 7. through Iesus Christ for euer and euer Amen. To him is their onely desire [Page 81] that all glory prayse and honour be attributed and gi­uen, none séeketh there for his owne things, but for the Bridegrome, they séeme al to haue forgotten thys worlde, to the which they are deade, and lyue onelye to one God,Christ onely gouernour. and all things there are onely gouerned by Christ, who onely prayeth for vs, who maketh con­tinuall intercession for vs, whose onelye Sacrifice is alwayes before his Father for vs, who sendeth day­lye hys holye Spirite to bys electe, and by it he go­uerneth his Church, he onely is King and Lorde, the beginning and ende, the heade of all the Saintes, of all godlynesse,Mat. 8. of all sincerity, and of all true Reli­giō, he is the light of the world,Io. 14. for he séeth all things, none can make him beleue one thing for an other, for he is the truth it selfe, without him if thou walk, thou goest out of the way, for he is the way, by him doe all things stande and fall, for he is the life of all things, for his sake only doth the father heare vs,Mat. 7. for as much as all that we aske for his sake, and in his name, he graun [...]th it vs, that which we aske through him, we are sure to haue, for the father hath promysed for hys sake, who can not lye. He hath not promised ought to suche as aske in the name of anye other, nay he is ra­ther angry with them that thinke that any Saint, is more mercifull then Christ, or better, or more careful ouer vs, or more acceptable to the father. For if we wil haue an aduocate,1. Io. 2. who is more merciful, better, or more acceptable to y^• father thā Christ.

I se that al the fault procedeth hereof,Heauenly thinges must not be measu­red according to mans brayne. in that we measure heauenly things according to our owne brayne. And therfore doe we thinke that the Virgin Mary is more mercifull than Christ, whome we imagine to be some cruell T [...]raunt and fierce Iudge, (an error growen [Page] of the diuersitie in nature betwéene man and womā, bicause we sée, that Women are more pitiefull than men. But what a diuellish madnesse was that, to take away the gouernement from Christ, and gyue it to hir?Luc. ii. as though Christ who is the wisdome of the Father, doted or coulde not tell what he had to doe.

It pleaseth me muche Marforius, that of a craftie Popishe Lawier,A maruelous yea almost a miraculous chaunge. thou art become a good and playne Gospeller.

I thanke thée for it, good Pasquine, nay, rather Christ, who hath by thy meanes delyuered me out of so great Ignoraunce. And nowe at this tyme hast thou tolde me manye things more, than the other time thou diddest. Is there anye thing behinde to be sayde, of other matters.

No, as touching heauen, but if thou haue leysure to heare me, I will declare vnto thée, the voyage I made into Hell.The [...]iage to Hell.

What, and hast thou also gone that voyage?

It is but eyght dayes past, since I was there.

I woulde leaue all other bu­ [...]nesse to heare thée tell of that, for I was not aware, that thou haddest bene there, and I woulde fayne vn­derstande the truth of thinges done in those partes.

I will shew thée, of hell and of Purgatorie, things no lesse maruellous,Pasquine a farre trauai­led man. than true and Godlye.

Beginne therefore I praye thée heartily, for me séemeth eche houre a yere til I heare thée.

Thou knowest, that this other tyme that we talked together of the voyage into heauen, I tolde thée, that the Aungell at his departing promised me, that if at any tyme, I would make a voyage into hell, he woulde beare me companie.

I remem­ber it well.Pasquine a Curious searcher of thinges.

Being therefore desirous to vn­stande what possibly might [...]e knowne of heauen, of [Page 82] the earth, and of the bottomelesse places, a few dayes fithens gate me vnto the caue, that in the beginning I tolde thée of, and there, without making anye more a doe, sayde my prayers, and prayed the Aungel that he woulde come, he came, I then humblye besought him, that he woulde kéepe his promise, that he made me, that is to say, to bring me to sée the lower partes: He sayde,Pasquine go­eth to s [...]e hell. with a good wyll, and bad me followe him, and so tooke on his way, and I after him. And we were no soner departed, but I knowe not howe, euen in a sodaine with more spéede than I can tell thée the tale, we came to a maruellous great gate, and a way won­derfull large and broade, and there the Aungell bid me, be of good courage, and feare nothing that I shoulde see or heare, declaring vnto me, that that was Hell gate.

I heare thée beginne much otherwise, than that I haue sometyme reade of in dy­uers Authours, thou diddest not first sacrifice shéepe, and blacke bullockes, thou didst not offer vp a blacke Lambe to the mother of the Furies, nor the baraine Cowe to the Lady Proserpina, thou soughtest not for the braunche of Golde.The way to Hell is sone found out. No thou gauest not thy selfe, so much as a little holy water, nor markedst thy selfe with the signe of the crosse, and couldest thou so sone finde the gate, and then thou sayest, that it is so great, and the way so broade and large, where as it séemeth that other say the contrarie. I pray thée tell me the ve­rye truth of all things, that reporting the same again to other, I be not laughed to scorne for my laboure.

If I haue begon farre otherwise than the olde Authours speake of, I haue so done, to tell thée, the matter as it is, and not to féede thée with fables and lyes, for I must not worke any of those supersti­tious [Page] ceremonies, that thou toldest of, for albeit that all suche as do them, doe finde the waye, (for it is an easie matter to goe to Hell, as euery man knoweth, as Virgil sayth. Facilis descensus Auerni,) that I haue then so lightly founde the gate, and sayde that it is great, bicause thou mayest be sure that it is so, hearkē what Christ sayeth.Math. 7. Enter ye in at the narrovve gate, for vvyde is the gate and broade is the vvay that lea­deth to destruction, and many enter in thereat.

Thou hast satisfied me in this point, but tell me, where foundest thou the gate, at the lake Auer­nus?

I founde it where it is, it is ynough for thée to knowe, that he that goeth thither shal finde it without any businesse.

Follow on ther­fore the rest, for I am with childe till I know it.

When we came vnto this gate, I felt suche a terrible feare and horror (bicause of the things I saw and heard) enter into my brest, that I could not vtter it, for euen forthwith I felt myne eares to be stricken with certaine horrible & fearefull outcryes, like vnto those that he maketh that is vnder the handes of the hangmā, or that is beset with theeues or murtherers, or that is in a Citie that is put to the fyre and sword, well I wote, the haires of my head stoode vpright, and I was euen almost at the point to haue repented me, that I was so curious to knowe thinges, but that the Aungell, who was ware thereof, put me in good com­forte remembring vnto me,Math. 16. that Hell hath no maner of power, ouer the elect children of God. Wherevpon taking good courage, I began with more heede to be­holde al things,The descrip­tion of Hell. and I saw so great a rable of Fryers, and Priestes, following the Nonnes and the lay sis­ters, as are the Bées, that being dryuen by a sodayne [Page 83] shower of rayne, do by swarmes hasten them to their hiues, or as are the birdes when they take their flight ouer the sea. In fine, they were so manye in number, that I would neuer haue beleued, that there had bene so many in the worlde And the Angell séeing me mar­uell thereat, sayde vnto me, let it not seme straunge vnto thée, for hither come al they that be in the world, excepting such as eyther forsake there coate, and olde Customes also, or if they kepe their coate still, lyue no more in that Fryerish filthinesse, bicause they are washed by the pure worde of the gospell,What and whome Pas­quine sawe in Hell. there sawe I also all the Ipocrites, (althoughe the more parte were Fryers) al the couetous men, al the Sodomits, all persecutours of the Gospell, all those that put their trust in pardons, & haue foll [...]wed the Popes wayes, & finally all those that haue had any trust or affiaunce of their saluation in anye other thing, than in Iesus Christ.

Howe diddest thou knowe them?

All their sinnes were open and manifest, and they were séene outwardely, as their garments are knowen here.

Diddest thou not know any one of them?

I wil not tell thée of any persone perticulerly at this tyme, I will shewe thée afterwarde in due place, where I sawe them all, one by one, I haue now other matter to say to thée.

Saye on then.

After I had stande a whyle diligently beholding suche as entred in, I be­gan afterward to consider and marke the gate: it was as thou hast heard,Hell gates neuer shutte. great and large, and stoode daye and night continually open.

Howe com­meth it therefore to passe, that those that are in such a miserable place, do not come out?

If thou hadst let me haue made an end of my talk, y^• shouldest [Page] haue h [...]ard, that it standeth alwaies opē for them that wil go in,Al may goe into hell that will, but none may come out. & alwayes shut for those y^• are already gone in: beside that, there are certayne waters, as thou shalt heare hereafter, which take away al power to re­tourne backe.

And how camest thou then backe againe?

If thou stande stil and hear­ken, thou shalt vnderstand altogyther.

Of what stuffe was y^• gate?

Amongest vs there is no such maner of stuffe,Of what stuffe belgates were made. a thing it is that lasteth for euer.

Of what worke was it made?

Neyther of Dorique, nor Ionique, Corinthi­an, nor Rustique, nor of no Compounde, but of a worke Diabolique.

Sawest thou no nota­ble thing in it?

I sawe it full of armes, a­mong whiche, there was one in the toppe of the fore­fronte aboue al the rest,Caine the first that entred his father the deuilles Kingdome. Caines and his successors bloudy armes & that was the armes of Cain, who was the firste that entred in thereat.

What armes were those of his?

Murther in a fielde red.

Peraduenture it was by­cause, he was the first that did commit it, and bycause that of Murther cōmeth bloude, whiche is redde?

Thou vnderstandest the matter.

The other armes whose were they?

It was well knowen, that there had bene other armes verye auncient, but they were all taken away excepte those of Cain.

Wherfore were they takē away?

To place there, the armes of Popes, as those that better deserued the place,Popes armes triumphantly placed ouer Hel gate. for it coulde not holde so many. So that thou mightest there haue séene the gate all con [...]red with great huge keyes, set tw [...] and two a Crosse, wyth a Myter betweene them, and vnder the Myter, the name of the Pope, and the yeare of our Lorde what time he entred: so that there was leste but a litle voide space, wherein were [Page 84] certaine letters, & vnderneth, so much space, as might holde one armes, or very few more.

What letters were those?

They were written in Caldey, I could not reade them, bycause I was then in this mortall body: but the Aungell tolde mée, that all those soules that go thither, can reade them, & the effect of them,The Inscripti­on ouer Hell gate. is this, That that place is prepared for the vessels of Gods wrath, and that eche one that en­treth therein,Mat. 25. spoyleth hymself of all ioye & gladnesse, and putteth vpon him all miserie and sorowe, for ther is wéeping and gnashing of téeth.Apo. 14.

If there be so little roome left, vpon that gate, where shal the armes of the other Popes be hanged, that shal come hereafter?Pasquine prophecieth that there shal be but fewe popes more.

There muste be but a certaine numbre, so many as that their armes maye serue that roome.

I wyshe therefore that the roome were very little, but are there y^• armes of al y^• Popes?

Of all, and they had already set vp the fur­nyture to place therein the armes of Pope Paule the thirde that sone after,When this booke was written Pope paule was lo­ked for in Hell. shoulde make his entraunce there.

He that woulde therefore write of them, might there finde a long beade roll.

That might he better do in Hell, where they are all in propre person.

Say on I pray thée, for I feare y^• wilt neuer come to an ende.Hell waye lesse occupyed than it was wont to be.

Then began I to consider the waye, the whiche, for ought y^• I could perceiue, was sometime much more trodden than it is at this present, for a man might sée, euen in some parte of it, the grasse growen vp, I thought at y^• first beginning, that this had bene caused by y^• spring­time which then was at hand, then remembring, that there was neuer no spring, I asked the Aungell the [...]ause therof, who tolde me, that euen as a man might [Page] haue séene long agone the people come from al partes of the worlde into this Citie for the Iubilie: with the self same throng.The Pope and his people runne hed­long to Hell. and greater also, went they to Hel, sent thither by Popes, and among other, these Popes them selues with their Iubilies, but sythens that pro­phecie was fulfilled whiche saith: That oute of the North shall come a plague vpon all the dvvellers of the lande, Iere. 1. the grasse hath begon to growe vp in this broad hie way.

I am wonderous glad, that y^• art come to talke of this saying, for I desire múche to vnderstand it of thée. These Priestes of ours, vnder­stande, that it thus signifieth: That those nations of the North parts, are cause of all euill, & heresie.

Those Préestes of yours vnderstand the scrip­ture quite awrye,The Popes pri [...]ts areig­no [...]unt and w [...]st the Scripture. and for the authority they haue, they cause it to be declared after their owne fashion. But I saye to thee, that this worde, (Al euil,) is in the scrip­ture as muche to saye, as, That which is contrarie to the Gospell,What this word all Euil signifieth in the scripture. or to tell thée it more plainely, it signi­fieth Antichriste, for euen as by the Gospell, Christ (which is al goodnes) is giuen vnto vs, euen so againe it must néedes be, that all euill is his directe contrary. In the same signification saint Paule said, that coue­tousnesse is the roote of al euill,1. T [...]mo. 6. Coloss. 3. for thou séest that Anti­christ which is all euill, hath his rootes so fastened in Couetousnesse, and al his membres also, that for this cause, many of them,Couetousnesse causeth the Scripture to be kept vnder y^• know y^• truth of y^• gospel, either thei hide it, or else w^t stand it, bicause they wil not loose their liuings. For the selfe same cause also doth Anti­christ with al his whole power séeke to destroy it. This prophecy therfore, was thus much to say, as: That frō y^• North should blo [...] a wynde with so great force, y^• it shuld take away frō the Wolfe his shepe skin, & make [Page 85] him to be knowen as a Wolfe, or to tell thée the same more plainely, that from those parts, the Pope should be discouered for to be Antichrist.Frō the north the pope is dis­couered to be Antichrist.

I per­ceyue that God hath made thée to speake for my soule healthe, I sée, that thou sayest the truth.

Sythens therefore that he who tooke him selfe to be y^• shepeherde, is discouered to be the Wolfe, the shéepe being affearde of his cruell looke, knowing him to be their enemie,Io. 10. haue fled away from him, and haue folo­wed the good and true shepeherd Iesus Christ,Why the Popes pathes growe grene. who is the waye, that leadeth to the swéete pastures. And this waye therefore that leadeth to perdition, begynneth to shoute out grasse, for it is not any more trodden but by the members of Antichrist, who albeit thei be ma­ny, (as I tolde thee a lyttle before) yet are they fewe in respect of those,The Popes fo­lowers fal frō him. that sometime did folow him.

I rest fully satisfied in this point. Nowe woulde I know, how the walles were made, that compasse in that place.

There are no maner of walles at all.

What néede is there then to haue a gate? can not euery one come in and oute that wyll?

Thou knowest that Venice, Venice. hath no walles & yet cannot euery one come in and go out that will, albeit, the strength of this place is cōtrary to others, for other are made, that none should come in, and this is made, that none should go out, for as thou hast herd the entrie is frée to euery man.

Is y^• place compassed about with waters, as Venice is?

It is compassed about with waters, but not as Ve­nice is,Venice com­passed with sal [...] waters and hell with waters of fire. for Venice is compassed with waters of the Sea, and this place is compassed with waters of fyre.

How can this hang togither? the water & the fyre are directe contraries, howe is it possible that [Page] they shoulde agrée togyther?

How is it pos­sible that soules, whiche can not feele nor be felte, should burne in the fyre, and that the bodies should a­bide in the fyre,Great con­tradiction in the Popes Doctrine. and not be burned? and yet this hap­peneth in Hell. Euen as we sée,Luc. 16. that Christe witnes­seth in the parable of the riche man and Lazarus the begger, saying: That the riche man was in Hel fyre, & yet his body was not in Hell, for mens bodies must remaine in the earth vntil the daye of Iudgement, af­ter the which, the bodies shal go togither with y^• soules into euerlasting fyre. As may be séene in all the whole scripture, and in that place, where Christ saith: That thou cut away thy hande that offendeth thée,Math. 5. for better shall it be for thée, that thou lacke a membre, than that all the whole body shoulde be cast into Hell fyre. The thinges of Hell are of an other manner of sorte, than those of this worlde, he that coulde tell howe to make these things, of this nature, knew also how to make those of an other nature: so that thou must not mar­uell, if I tolde thée, that this place is compassed with waters of fyre.

Are these waters so broad, as those of Venice?

These be not all of thē togyther, but are diuided into fiue great dyches. The first whereof is called Lethe, The waters of Hel and their significations. which is as much to saie as, The forgetting of goodnesse, the seconde Phlege­ton, that to saye, desire of euill, the thirde Acheron, which is to say, the vtter forsaking of al gladnesse, the fourth Cocytus, that is to saye wéeping, the fifth is Palus stigia, Charons boat. which is to wéete, Euerlasting hate and miserie.

How do they passe, in Charons boate?

As I haue told thée of the gate, euen so I tel the of these waters, for, to go thither, thei passe without any businesse, but to returne againe, it is not possible to passe them. Euen as thou séest, that it fa­reth [Page 86] by the Ryuer Danubius, Danubiu [...]. and of many other wa­ters that downe the streame they sayle wonderous easily, but vp against the streame, it is impossible. In fine, I tell thée, that to go thyther, there is no maner of let by the way,No stoppe nor staye in Hell waye. no, whether they haue their peny to paye Charon for his ferye, nor whether thei haue ben buried or no, nor of none other thing.

What a foolish deuise was that of them, that thoughte that Charon must be paide,The folishe o­pinion of Charon and his boate. and therefore put a peny in the deade mannes Mouth? And of these other, that thought, that the soule could not passe ouer on the other side in an hundreth yeres, vnlesse the body were buried?

That was without comparison lesse harme, than that of our Priestes, who herevpon haue founded a lying and dampnable Purgatory, and haue made the foolysh people beleue, that not he that putteth a single penny in the mouth of the dead man, but who so euer putteth not a great gubbe of money into their pursses,Purgatory [...] de­uised topick al mens pursses. or leaueth not to them good posses­sions, can not so sone be delyuered from the paynes of that Purgatory of theirs.

Oh thou canst now tel me certaine newes of this purgatory, if it be there thou must nedes haue sene it.

I will fully declare vnto thée the truth, and that thou mayst the better beleue me, I will alleage so many reasons, & authorities of y^• scripture, that thou shalt be assured that it is as I shall tell thée. But first I will rehearse vnto thée,To hel is eue [...] company go­ing. péece by péece, that little that yet remaineth for me to tell. We entred in at that gate, and walked along by that broade way, being still among a greate multitude of people, that passed thitherward, and hea­ring still more and more, those dolorous and lamen­table outeryes, all those people went with great hast, being dryuen by their cruell destinye, and forthwith, [Page] were they all seuerallye put to dyuers punishments and torments, as afterward I shall shewe thée. But I (that was not come thither, to suffer any of those pu­nishments, but to learne thinges, by the declaring whereof afterwarde, I might cause, that other should not indure them) went on faire and softly, cōsidering eche things, and prying in euery corner, to sée where Purgatory was.The descrip­tion of Pur­gatorie. And I sawe on the one syde, a huge Lake, that with the lower ende of it touched the tor­menting places where the dampned soules be, wher­of when I had much maruelled, I demaūded the An­gell what it might meane: he aunswered me, that the Purgatory which the priestes had made, began at the vpper ende of that Lake, and reached vnto those tor­menting places, which were deuided from Purgato­rye, but with a thinne wall. And when Neptune let droppe his waters (that before I tolde thée of) downe into this place, this Lake was then made, which for all that did not fill vppe all Purgatory, but that part which ioyned to those tormenting places, remayned set on fire, and at the same verye tyme, the fire tooke holde on eche side of the wall,Purgatorie quite consu­med. and burnt it quite, and so was it made all one place with Hell, and this parte that remayneth yet on fire, is for them that beleue in Purgatory, and the other that was quenched, altoge­ther by Neptunes waters, is for them that beleue not in it.

All that thou talkest, I hold as thin­ges true, yet notwithstanding, if I shoulde at anye tyme proue vnto other, the vanity and falshoode of this deuyse, with other testimonies than thine owne only, I pray thée to alleage me also those of the scripture, & together with them, all those reasons that not long a­goe, thou saydest thou wouldest bring forth.

[Page 87]I will with al my hart, stande stil and giue good eare.

I will giue good eare, say on hardly.

By the worde of God,None other Purgatorie but Christes bloude. thou shalt neuer finde other Purgatory, than the bloud of Iesus Christ, tho­rowe the which onely, all sinnes are perfectly pardo­ned, and therefore do they committe grieuous sinne, that say there is other Purgatory than this,Hebr. [...]. et. 9. and it is a blasphemous and Diuelishe fondnesse, of them that beleue it. And that thou mayst know, howe false thys diuelishe deuise is, I will first alleage certaine pla­ces of the scripture that goe against it,Places of the Scripture to ouerthrowe Purgatorie. in Saint Ma­thew, and Saint Marke, thus we reade: He that be­leueth and is baptised, shall be [...]aued, and he that be­leueth not shall be dampned. Mat. 28. By the whiche wordes thou mayst perceiue,Mar. 16. that saluatiō is giuē vs by fayth, and dampnation for lack of fayth. Therefore eyther we dye in fayth,Who dieth in fayth is sa­ued. or without fayth, if we dye in fayth, we are saued, for it is written. He that beleueth shal be saued. If we dye without fayth, we are dampned, for it is written. He that beleueth not shall be damp­ned. Besydes this,Iohn. 3. Saint Iohn sayth. So God loued the vvorlde that he gaue his onely begotten Sonne, to the ende that al that beleue in him, should not perish, but haue lyfe euerlasting. For God hath not sent hys sonne into the vvorlde to condemne the vvorlde, but that the vvorlde might be saued by him, he that be­leueth in him shal not be condemned, and he that be­leueth not, is condemned already, bycause he beleueth not in the name of the onely Sonne of God. Thou séest that the father, hath giuen vs his sonne, to the ende that he that beleueth in him, should haue euerlasting lyfe, and that euerlasting lyfe followeth him that be­leueth. What thinkest thou now, that this euerlasting [Page] life is?

I thinke it is heauē out of doubt.

Thou sayest well, but if the beleuer be iud­ged to go to Purgatory, what a heauen is this? doest thou not sée, how this is contrary to the word of God? Moreouer y^• word being saued by Christ, nedes must it be that he which beleueth, haue a life without pain, and he that beleueth in him is not iudged. But if he wente to Purgatory, he shoulde be iudged to go thy­ther, the which can not be to him that beleueth. For Saint Paule sayth,Rom. 8. that there is no condempnation to him that beleueth in Iesus Christ. And Christ hym selfe sayth. Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that hea­reth my vvordes,Iohn. 5.and beleueth on him that sent me, hath euerlasting lyfe, and shall not come vnto damp­nation, but is escaped from death to lyfe. But if any man wēt into Purgatory, séest thou not, that he shuld not haue euerlasting lyfe, that is to say heauen, but y^• he should be condempned, and that he should not passe from death to lyfe, the whiche is cleane contrary to Christs owne saying?

What, this is not condempnation?

Nay, the traditions of these men saye manifestlye,Traditions are good trashe when they treade scrip­ture vnder [...]eete. that the soule for euerye deadely sinne is iudged to abyde seauen yeares in the fire of Purgatory, the whiche is a most horrible lye, for in all the holye scripture is not founde one onelye iote spoken of seauen yeares, nor of no suche foolyshe brabling; nay rather is the contrary found in y^• whole scripture, as in the Parable of the rych man and poore Lazarus: Luc. 16. eche of them dyeth, the one is buryed in hel, and the other is caryed into Abrahams bosome, with­out touching any whit of the paynes of Purgatorye. And the theefe that was crucified with Christ, was ne­uer [Page 88] in Purgatory to doe penance for his sinnes, and yet Christ sayde vnto him. This day shalt thou be vvith me in Paradise. Ioh. 16. If there were any suche false Purgatory, it must nedes be, that some mentiō must be made of it in these places of the scripture. But there is none other purgation, than the bloud of Christ,Ephe. 5. the l [...]uer of regeneration, which is sufficiently shed vpon vs. But tell me, this Purgatory, was it before the in­carnation of Christ,A hard question. or since onelye?

In good fayth, I can not aunswere thée, for if I saye, since Christ onely, I should be brought to shew, that Christ hath bene a cruell exactour, and not a gentle Re­demer, the whiche should be a moste horrible blasphe­mie. And if I saye, that it was from the begynning of the world, I haue no place at al in the auncient scrip­ture to proue it, Moses in his booke Leuiticus. Hath described so manye sacrifices, oblations, washings, purgings, for the sinnes of the lyuing: but he spea­keth not one iote of the deade, nor of this purgatorie, naye rather doth he forbid the priestes to stande and wéepe, and lament the dead, as doth also Saint Paule, to the Thessalonians.1. Thess. 4.

Therfore, is there no maner of certayntie of this Purgatorie, through­out all the Scripture,Purgatorie is not found in the scripture. for the Scripture is cleane a­gainst it, as maye be séene in this text of the Apoca­lipse: Blessed are the deade that dye in the Lorde: Therefore must it néedes be,Apoca. 14. that whosoeuer dyeth, eyther dieth in the Lorde, or not, if he die in the Lord, he must néedes be by this testimonie,Sophisterie brought in to maynteyne Purgatorie. blessed, but if he dye not in the Lorde, he must néedes be accursed, for there are but two wayes.

Distinguo, sic, Quantum ad poenam, nego, sed quantum ad culpā, [Page] concedo.

What meanest thou by this beg­gerly Sophistrie.

I meane that God par­doneth the offence, but not the punishment.

O what great folishnesse art thou in, and where fin­dest thou,God forgi­ueth al or no­thing. that God pardoneth the one, without the other? The workes of God are perfect, he pardoneth all or else nothing, without mangling or cutting of his frée gift, as witnesseth Ezechiell, where he sayeth. What tyme soeuer a sinner vvyll repent hym of hys sinnes, [...]zech. 18. et 33. I vvill no more remember any of his iniqui­ties sayeth the Lorde. And Saint Iohn sayeth.1. Io. 2. If vve confesse our sinnes, he is faithfull and iust to pardon vs, and make vs cleane from all vvickednesse, and if vve vvalke in the light, euen as he is light, vve haue fellovvship with him, and the bloud of his sonne Ie­sus Christ doth cleanse vs, from al sinne, for he sitteth on the right hande of God, making intercession for sinnes, and by one onely oblation hath he made per­fect for euer, those that are sanctifieth. More ouer the Psalme sayeth.Psal. 32. I haue confessed my sinne vnto thee, and haue not hidden myne vnrighteousnesse, I sayde I vvill knovvledge myne offence, and accuse my selfe vnto the Lorde, and thou hast forgiuen the vvicked­nesse of my sinne. If therfore the Lorde forgiue vs all our sinnes, when we pray earnestly to him for it, we can be no more troubled for them: for they are forgi­uen vs for the faythes sake, that we haue in the death and passion of Iesus Christ, the which is eyther per­fect, or vnperfect:Blasphemie against Iesus Christ. If it be perfect, there nedeth none other thing to make it more perfect, but to say that it is vnperfect, is to blaspheme Iesus Christ, and his passion, as doe these monstrous soule Merchaunts, which will haue them to make satisfaction for their [Page 89] sinnes in the fyre of Purgatorie.

Dauid sinned,An obiection of the papistes and his sinnes were forgiuen concerning the offence, but not concerning the punishment due for the offence, for he remayned for all that bound to one of those thrée plagues, that were offered vnto him.

And I tell thée, that God eyther pardoneth all or else nothing, for he that forgiueth the greater, will not stricke to forgiue the lesser, it is a more matter to forgiue the offence, than the punishment. If ther­fore he forgiue y^• offence,To what ende we are left in troubles. he reserueth not the punish­ment. But to kéepe vs vnder, here in this world, and to exercise vs in pacience, and to make vs knowe his mighty power, he leaueth vs ofte tymes in troubles, so doth he also those that haue not offended, as we sée in Iob, and Ieremy, and many others. For as Saint Paule sayeth,Rom. 5. Tribulation bringeth forth Patience, and patience bringeth forth proufe, proufe bringeth forth hope, and hope is not confounded. And euen so albeit God had forgiuen Dauid, both the offence and the punishment,Dauid an ex­ample of pa­tience. yet woulde he bring him lowe, and try him, that the worlde might knowe, howe full of fayth he was. The punishment therefore is not it, that purgeth our sinnes, but faith, the which Saint Paule sayeth, is the purging of sinnes. And so if they will haue anye other purgatorie, than the bloude of Christ,Rom. 3. it is none other, but to make his passion of none effect,Hebr. 1. and to saye that his workes are vnperfect. This is plaine,To affirme purgatorie is to denie Christes bloud. that al the elect are members of Christ and if they be his members, it followeth, that his vertue, and the infinite merits of his passion be com­mon vnto them, whereby they are assoyled from all punishment,Gala. 2. and consequently from purgatorie. And Saint Iohn sayeth.Iohn. 1. That they that beleue in Christ, [Page] are the Sonnes of God, and heyres of the inheri­taunce that is gyuen them by promise, and not by workes. What néede haue we therefore of this Pur­gatorie to gyue vs that inheritaunce? Oh Lorde streatch forth the arme of thy mighty power, & destroy and bring to naught these false Prophets, Seducers, and Ipocrites, y^• deceyue thy people, with Trentals, and Quarentals, and other foolishe inuentions full of all couetousnesse. But to sée plainlye with thine eye, the vncertayne holde that this Purgatorye standeth on (albeit that whiche I haue already alleaged vnto thée might suffice thée) heare what Salamon sayth. If the tree fal tovvard the South, Eccl. 11. or tovvard the North, vvhere he falleth, there it abydeth. To fall towarde the South is to dye in fayth, and towarde the Northe without fayth, he therefore that dyeth in fayth, hath euerlasting lyfe, and he that dyeth without fayth hath dampnation, here is no maner of meane or middle place, where to fall betwene these two.

Why, hath this Purgatory in very dede no maner of foundation in the Scripture?

None at a [...].

Where haue they founde it then?

The iauen­t [...]urs of pur­gatorie. Among the blinde beggers of Hildibrand the Sorcerer, afterward called Gregorie the seuenth, glo­sing vpon that place of Virgil. Centum erant annos, or else in Plato, in his Timèo, or else in Macrobius, in the dreame of Scipio, or els among the false miracles, visions and illusions wrought by Sathan, transfor­ming him selfe into an aungell of lyght.2. Cor. 11. For albeit all true Angels of heauen should tel vs any other thing,Gala. 1. then y^• which is in y^• word of god,The Apostles neuer hearde of purgatorie. let him be accursed. But if there were such a Purgatory, how much were the Apostles worthy to be blamed, that haue not spo­ken [Page 90] one worde thereof? Saint Peter wryteth fully to the instruction of the Churches, yet maketh he no maner mention of the deade. Saint Iames, who com­mendeth so much good workes, maketh no mention of Masses, nor of offeringes for the soules of the deade. Saint Iohn in his Epistles doth highly set forth cha­ritye, and yet speaketh not a worde of Charity for the deade. But what shall we say of the great diligence of Saint Paule in teaching the Romanes, faith and good workes? and yet teacheth he none other purging of sinnes,Hebr. 9. but by the bloude of Christ. Reade his epistles to the Corinthians, 2. Cor. 9. thou shalte finde, that he maketh collections, requestes, and recommendations, for the poore brethren, that are in captiuity and nede, so that he sayth, he hath taken awaye from the other Chur­ches to sende to the poore at Hierusalem, and yet maketh he no maner of collection or other thing for y^• deade.Purgatorie pence how they are be­stowed. As these théeues do all day long whereby they are become rycher then Craesus, and fall to Iolye good chere, with whores and bawdes, and the poore dye for hunger. vvoe be to you Scribes & Pharisies, Ipo­crites, Math. 15. that laye a syde the commaundement of God, (which is to helpe the poore), for your cursed traditions of Purgatorie the which hath swalowed vp almost all the goods of the worlde.Purgatorie neuer satisfi­ed. It is that sacke whereof the Prophete speaketh, that is neuer full, and that horse-leach (wherof Salomō saith) that hath two daughters that crye: Bring hyther bring hyther.Prouer. 30 So saye these théeues bring hyther for y^• soules of your dead friends and parents.Priestes crye bring bring. Forget not the poore that be deade, that crye vnto you Miseremini. Oh slaunderous and tray­terous falsifiers, what a presumptuous boldenesse is this of you, to maintaine such lyes, & deceiue the peo­ple? [Page] this is that fyre y^• neuer crieth hoa. If you should giue all the whole worlde to these false theues, they woulde neuer saye hoa: for they are the very insatia­ble Hell it selfe.

How vnderstandest thou that place of Saint Mathew y^• saith. Agree with thine aduersarie quickely while thou art on the vvay vvith him, Mat. 5. that he giue thee not to the Iudge, & the Iudge gyue thee vnto the handes of the Minister, & thou be cast in prison, verily, I say vnto thee, that thou shalt not come out from thence vntil thou haue payed euē to the vttermoste farthing?

Doest y^u finde any purgatorie in this speaking?

I will not affirme it,Sophisticall reasons f [...]r proufe of purgatorie. hauing heard of thée so many probable reasons to the contrarie, but I will tell thée, how the Sophisters proue the same vpon this text, they saye that oure aduersarie is synne, who gyuethe vs vnto the Iudge, whiche is God, and he putteth vs in prison which is purgatorie, out of the which we shall not come, vntill we haue made full satisfaction, suffering the fire of it.The deuil the chiefe doctor to teach pur­gatorie.

It was the diuell, that in this sorte did interprete, these words, & his ministers seke to maynteyne the same interpretacion. But if thou wilt haue the true exposition of these wordes, thou must take good heede wherof Christe speaketh: there he speaketh, of leauing of hatred, and that a man ought to reconcile him selfe to his neighboure, the whiche who so doth not, is in daunger to take the ouerthrow, and to be cast into Prison, from whence he shall not come out, vntill he haue made full satis­faction, and the same doth Saint Luke confirme say­ing.Luc. 12. Whyle thou goest vvith thine aduersary to the ruler, as thou art in the vvay, giue diligence that thou mayest be delyuered from him. He sayth plainely, vn­to [Page 91] to the Ruler, before whome men goe to pleade their causes, and to receiue iustice. Thus doth Chrisostome and Theophilacte vnderstande that place, and Am­brose which sayth,The opinions of diuers auncient doc­tours concer­ning purga­torie. vvhen thou goest to the Magis­trate. And Hillarie also in his Cannones where he sayth. That in this place it must be vnderstande, of the reconciliation, and sayth not, of the satisfaction for sinnes in Purgatory. Thou séest therefore, that these interpretations of thine can not stande with the mea­ning of the Scripture, for it is rather a sense cūning­ly wrested, which (as Saint Ierome sayth) is not good to proue the rules or grounds of our fayth.

There are also other textes, with y^• which, they proue Purgatory.

What be those?

That of Saint Mathew, where Christ sayth. That the kingdome of heauen is like vnto a King, Math. 18. that vvould take accompt of his seruaunts. &c. And saith that one of them vvas brought before him, vvhich ought him tenne thousande Talents. &c. And the Lorde vvas vvroth, & deliuered him to the kepers of the prison, vntil that he had paid the vvhole debt that he ought. They say this text meaneth that he shoulde be put in Purgatory, and there lefte, vntill the full satisfaction of the debt, whiche when he hath payed, he shall come out.

This text is so cleare, that it is not possible otherwise to be vnderstanded, than according to the matter that Christ speaketh of. And if it were possible to giue this place anye other interpretation, yet is it most impossible to interprete it for Purgato­rye. Consider a little, wherefore Christ vseth thys si­militude: He sayth, Thou euill seruaunt, haue not I forgiuen thee all the debt thou oughtest me, Math. 18. euen as thou hast prayed me: shouldest not thou likevvyse [Page] haue had compassion on thy fellovv, and shovv mer­cy vnto him, euē as I haue shevved it vnto thee? This therefore hath none other meaning, but to exhorte vs to forgiue one another, if we wil that god forgiue vs, and meaneth nothing of Purgatory, nor of no suche foolish toyes.

Thou meanest therfore that this debtour was cast into Hell, and not into Pur­gatory?

So I meane.

He that is cast into Hell, can neuer come from thence, and yet it séemeth that this debtour, of whom Christ speaketh shal come out, for he saith vntill he pay the debt. Ther­fore when he hath payed the debte he shall come out.

All thy doubt standeth vpon this word vn­till, doth it?

Yea,What this word (vntill) signifieth.

And I tell thée, that that word vntill, in this place signifieth not a tyme that hath end, or is definitiue, but a time with­out ende, and that is infinite.

Beware that thou interprete not also things cleane contrary, as our Priestes doe.

I will proue it vnto thée, all that I haue sayde, with the authorityes of the Scripture, and not with Sophistrie, nor with mans authorityes.

Doest thou find in other pla­ces of the Scripture, that this worde, vntill, signifieth a tyme infinite?

Yea,Mat. 1. out of doubt. Saint Mathew sayth that Ioseph knew not the Uirgin Ma­rye, vntill she had brought forth hir sonne, wilte thou perhaps say, that, that most pure virgin after hir de­liuerance was knowen by Ioseph?

God kepe me from so thinking. I beleue that she was al­wayes a Uirgin.

This worde therfore vn­till, signifieth not any time that hath ende.Apoc. 110. The same shalt thou finde also in the .Cx. Psalme. And who so would otherwyse vnderstande it, should confound al [Page 92] the whole meaning of the Scripture. And further­more, I would fayne know of thée, what he is that can at any tyme make god amendes for his sinnes,No man can make amends for his sinnes. truely not one, for we sée, that Christ is become our righte­ousnesse, bycause that by our owne righteousnesse we could not be saued.1. Cor. 1. If it had bene possible for vs to haue gone vp to heauen, it should not haue bene nede­ful for Christ to haue come downe into the earth. And if we must for the purging of our sinnes be boyled in Purgatory, what good doth Christes passion vnto vs? Howe are we then saued by grace,Ephe. 2. as all the whole scripture testifieth?Rom. 11. how go we to the father by Christ onelye as he him selfe affirmeth? Doest thou not sée how great a blasphemie, this is against Iesus Christ, to say that with the boiling in Purgatory, that thing is done, which Iesus Christ onely wrought? as these murtherers say, wherein they are much like the Cere­tanes, who the better to sell their Poticary ware,Ceretanes the common pickepursse [...] of Italie. say, that there is a great plague comming,Priestes as common pick­pursses as they. but they haue the remedy therof, and they swere and stare, that they haue proued the same a thousand times. Euen so haue these marked Monsters deuised their Purgatory, and then they say, that the remedy thereof is their Masses, their almesse, their prayers, and Pilgrimages, as a man may sée in the decrée of their owne handyworke, and al this is for the welth of their kitchin. They find out great sweetenesse in their Masses that are payde for, which ready money, and their great ruinesse lefte vnto their Monasteries to pray for the soules of them that bequeth them. Oh what good doe their prayers, their fastings, their recomendation of soules, theire seauen Psalmes, their Dirige by note, and their De profundis ouer the graue. They pray stil for those that [Page] be dead, for those I meane that paye swéetely, for o­therwise there is not a worde,No peny no Pater noster. and if there be a pore man that hath nought to pay, he must séeke some mo­ney, yea, though he burst his heart for it, for they say. Est ad pias causas. Oh cormoraunt theues, God once destroy you, for the health of the pore séely ones.

Upon that other place also of Saint Mathewe they grounde this their deuise, where he sayeth. That vvhosoeuer shall speake a vvorde against the sonne of man, Math. 12. it shal be forgiuen him: Mar. 13. but he that speaketh against the holy ghost, shall not be forgiuen, neyther in this vvorlde nor in the vvorlde to come. Nowe, if there be forgiuenesse in the worlde to come,The papistes will haue a thirde place beside heauen and Hel. it can not be sayde, that it is in heauen, for vp thither entreth no sinne, nor in hell it can not be, for there is no re­dēption: it followeth therfore, that there is an other place where sinne is forgiuen, and that is Purgato­rie, how answerest thou to this?

I answere that this saying, neyther in this worlde, nor in the worlde to come, is as much to say, as neuer, as may be sene in the Apocalipse, where he sayeth, that those beasts had no reast,Apoca. 4. neyther daye nor night, which is nothing else to say, but that they neuer rested.

I giue great credite to thy saying yet.

What meanest thou by (yet) I tell thée, that those wordes are as muche to say, as (neuer, worlde without ende, doest thou not beleue Saint Marke?

Yes marye doe I beleue him.Mar. 3.

Reade therefore this selfe same text in Saint Marke, and thou shalt finde, that he sayeth, that the sinne a­gainst the holy ghost shall neuer be forgiuen.

Sayeth he playnely, neuer?

He say­eth most playnely thus.Mar. 3. He that speaketh against the [Page 93] holy Ghost shall neuer be forgiuen, but shal be giltie of euerlasting iudgement. Wilte thou haue a more playner saying? Go looke in the thirde chapter & thou shalt finde it as I tell thée.

Oh theues you Priestes,Pasquine cri­ethout vpō the popish priestes. Oh Traytours, deceyuers and murtherers, from henceforwarde I will not beleue them, if they say their Pater noster. Luc. 12.

Saint Luke also affirmeth the same, saying flatly, that he shall not be forgiuen. Beholde therefore how well they interprete the Scriptures.

I am already at a point with them, but thou shalt do me great pleasure to ex­pounde also vnto me, certaine other places, vpon the which, they grounde this deceyte, one is, in the first Epistle to the Corinthians, where he sayeth.1. Cor. 3 If anye man builde vpon this foundation, Golde, Siluer, Pre­cious stones, Tymber, Hay or stouble, euerye mans vvorke shall appere, for the daye shall declare it, and it shall be shevved in fyre, and the fyre shall trye euery mans vvorke vvhat it is. If anye mans vvorke that he hath built vpon, do abyde, he shall receyue a revvarde, if anye mans vvorke burne, he shall suffer losse, but he shall be safe himselfe, Neuerthelesse, yet as it were throughe fyre. Here a man maye sée, that in this place the Apostle speaketh of fyre.

Thinkest thou therfore,Fyre in the scripture what it signi­fieth. that he meaneth in this place materiall fyre? he speaketh by a Metaphor or figure, for by fyre here in this text are meant, troubles afflic­tions, temptations, and perilles of death, as is to be seene in that psalme of Dauid, which saith: Thou hast tryed me with fyre, which is nothing else to say,Psal. 17. but with troubles, for a man shall neuer reade, that Da­uid was at any tyme in materiall fyre. And in an o­ther place,Psal. 66. we haue passed throughe fyre and water, [Page] and thou haste brought vs to a resting place.1. Peter. 1. Saint Peter also in y^• first chapter of his first Epistle sayth, euen the same so doth also Esay, and the other pro­phetes, and euen so doth Saint Paule. And bicause thou shalt well vnderstande this péece of Scripture, I say to thée,What this worde (to build) mea­neth. that to builde, is as muche to say, as to preache Gods worde, the foundation is Christ, the worke built therevpon, are those that haue receyued the worde, the fyre, is temptation and persecution iustlye sent by God, the Golde, Syluer, and precious stones, are they, that haue in suche sorte receyued the fayth of Christ, that they will rather dye then denie him, the tymber, hay, and stouble, are those that be­leue for a tyme, and make a shewe, as thoughe they did beleue, but if they féele afterwarde any persecuti­on or affliction, they forsake Christ, and bring forth no fruite bicause they haue no roote. This is the true meaning of the Apostle, and of Saint Ierome vpon Ezechiell the thirde Chapter.The offices of a true and false preacher. If therfore the preacher of the truth, hath wholly builte any man vpon Christ, so that perscutions doe none otherwise to him, then doth the fyre, to the golde, siluer, and precious stones, it is a signe, that he hath faithfully administred the worde, and built strongly, when his hearers are more ready to léese their lyfe, than their faith, but if anye man doe so coldly handle the worde of God, that hys hearers féeling the persecution, doe denie their fayth, they shall be consumed by persecution, as tymber, hay, and stouble, are con [...]umed by fyre. And then shal be knowē the negligence, of th [...] [...] minister & of his hea­rers, for the daye of the Lorde, (which is not to be vn­derstande of the daye of iudgement,The daye of the L [...]. but when it plea­seth him to visite vs with troubles) shall reueale and [Page 94] open those things that were not knowne, and so eue­rye mans doctrine shall be tryed. And yet if the mini­ster during the fyre of persecution, shall conti [...]ue to [...] it, he shall be safe: but he shall passe throughe the fyre, that is to saye, he shall patientlye beare his persecution. The Apostle therefore in that place, spea­keth of y^• trying of faith, and of doctrine, in the time of persecutions. And so doth Saint Ierome declare it, whereby thou mayest knowe wha [...] doltes and asses those are, that gather that he speaketh of a Purgato­rie, that neuer was, but the Deuill mayntayneth his kingdom, by such as these are, that he that is in filthi­nesse should in filth [...]nesse cōtinue.

The o­ther foūdatiō of theirs, is vpō the booke of Machabees.

By this thou mayst knowe howe well lear­ned they be,2. Maca. 12. that know not which be the bookes of the Bible:The ignorance of the Popes Clergie. the bookes of the Machabees are al re [...]ected and not allowed as Saint Augustine, Eusebius, Ierome and other auncient doctours saye, and therefore are not read to confirme the authoritie of the doctrine of the Church. But I woulde aske Iudas Machabeus, where he hath founde, that God commau [...]ded him, to offer two thousaund Drammes of Syluer in sacri­fice, for the sinnes of the deade, and where [...]e hath founde that Syluer is a Sacrifice.Leui. 3. et. 5. The sacrifice was offered of beastes that were commaunded in the law▪ and not of Siluer,Sacrifice for sinnes wherof it was made. Craftie con­ueyaunce of false knaues. nor Golde. And therfore haue these false knaues the Priests, full of all crafte, and sub [...]l­tie, in their Masse for the deade, thrust in this place for the Christle, and haue craftily taken awaye from it this worde, Sacrifice, for they knowe well ynough, that Sacrifice was neuer made with Golde, nor with Syluer, and yet coulde they not cary so cleanely, but [Page] that their iuggeling and deceyte hath bene espied, so thou mayest sée, with what falsehoode they worke, and then call they him an Heretique, that beleueth not their knackes of knauerie.Apo. 14. 21.

They haue also an other grounde, vpon that place of the Apocalipse, that those that follow the Lambe are without spotte, before the throne of God, and that no foule thing shal enter into that holy and heauenly Citie. And they say that he that purgeth not him selfe in this worlde with good workes, must néedes [...]e purged in y^e other worlde with the fyre of Purgatorie, that he may enter cleane and pure into heauen.

Who knoweth not, that none can enter into heauen, that hath anye spot? but where haue they founde, that fyre can purge sinnes? let them answere, if they can, let thē alledge but one texte onely of the Scripture. Thomas of A­quine, Thomas A­quine dr [...]uen to a harde pointe. sought it narrowely, but at the last, he was constrayned to saye, that Purgatorie is not to be founde in al the whole Bible, but yet we must beleue it, for certaine balde reasons, that he maketh groun­ded vpō the Churches & miracles of Antichristes. And euen in the same maner haue they also deuised Saint Patricks Purgatorie,Saint pa­trickes pur­gatorie. where manye horrible things are séene, as the Fryers of that place tel with lye and all. But if thou wilte sée their lyes ouerthrowne by their owne selues, aske of them I pray thée, whether the soules worke in Purgatory, or no. If they would say yea, thou mayest shewe them that they lye falsely: for Christ sayth,Iohn. 9. Worke vvhyle it is day, for the night vvill come, vvherein none can vvorke. And hereby the day is meant life, and by the night death. And yet whē they sée, they can not withstande this place, they say, that they doe nothing else but satisfaction. Aske them [Page 95] then, if there can be any satisfaction, without workes, I speake according to their owne false doctrine,None can worke for sa­tisfaction, nor worke but in the day. they can not say, but no, vnlesse they will lye vpon them­selues saying, that man can doe all things with his owne good workes. If therefore they will saye, that soules worke in Purgatorie, they fall to gainesaying of Christ, who sayth, that in y^• night none can worke, that is to saye in death. And so, to which side soeuer they turne them, they are in an euill case. Sée nowe vpon what sure foundations, these traytours haue builded, a thing of so greate deceyte, the which not­withstāding, many thinke they cōmit a great offence, yea, thinke themselues heretiques, if they doe not be­leue. But this thing is clere, certayne, vndoubted, and infallible, that in matters of fayth, it is not law­full for vs,Nothing must be folowed but Goddes word onelye. to follow the thoughtes and imaginations of men, but the onely, onely, onely word of God, clere, euident, and open. Following the whiche, man nede not feare going amisse. But who could at any time declare, the greatnesse of the errors and blasphemies, that are sprong of this théeuish deuise?What fruits spring of the opinion of purgatorie. First it is an open & plain renouncing of Iesus Christ, & a denying of his merites, & a not beleuing of the Gospell: which sayth. That Iesus Christ onely hathAo [...]. 1. washed vs, and Heb. [...]. purged vs perfectlye by his blo [...]de, and that he hath Heb. 9. offered vp him selfe without spotte, to God, to clense our consciences from deade workes, and that he hath Esay. 53. borne our paynes, and suffered our sorrowes, and that he is theIohn. 1. Lambe of God, that taketh awaye the sinnes of the worlde. Oh what an horrible blasphemy and error springeth of this detestable deuise, and more ouer, hereof groweth it, that through this deuise, ma­ny are become thée [...]es, many murtherers, many cru­ell [Page] traytors, full of all filthynesse and mischiefe. Tho­row it many are become vserers, and chiefly those of Bergomo in Lu [...] bardie: A people of a Citie vnder the venetians naturally wise [...] sub­tle muche gi­uen to trauell and traffick. who gather together so greate store of goods, by hooke or by crooke, they care not howe, for say they, when we shall be olde, the will we confesse our selues to the Priest, who will giue vs absolutiō, through the which the euerlasting punish­ment which we haue deserued, shall be made tempo­rall, that is to say, to last but for a tyme, and that pu­nishment: shall we suffer in purgatory, from the which we shall be forthwith deliuered, by the power of Mas­ses, an [...] holy water, and of our witles & Testaments, by the which we shall bequeath that Chappels, Chur­ches, and Monasteries, be built, by which meanes we shall of force come to Heauen. And thus they die, and forthwith goe into that place, whiche (as I tolde thée before) is vnder the Lake, where thinking themselues to be in Purgatorye,Wilie [...] them selues that think they goe to Pargator [...]e & go streight to Hell. they are in Hell, for the wall (which I tolde thée of before) is quite burnt vppe, and hath made it all one rowme. If I hadde (I saye to thee) an hundreth tongues, an hundreth mouthes and a voyce of yron, I should neither be of skill, nor power sufficient to shewe vnto thée, the horror, the miscrye, the greatnesse, and number of tormentes, and feare­full things, that I sawe there, and so much the more should I coufound my selfe in the imagination ther­of. If I went about to shew them,Where no or­de [...] th [...]re is confusion. as y^• I found all the same so confused and disordered.

Is there no differēce betwene the dampned soules, in such ma­ner as Danthe or Virgill speaketh of? are not y^• prin­ces (at the least) deuided from the base people? or is there no order at all?

The best obserued order that there is, is the disorder and confusion that [Page 96] alwayes and euery where, is there to be séene.

Is there at the least no difference in paynes, some in more, some in lesse?

Yea, that there is, for thou knowest that the Lorde sayth.Mar. 12. You shall receyue the greater iudgement. And many there are that are more tormented then other, that in thys worlde were accompted happye men.

I pray the declare vnto me the whole, euen in such sorte as thou thinkest best.

The nerer still that we approched to these places of miserye the more did we féele our eares, eyes, and nose, to be stricken with straunge and dolefull noyses, with thicke and trou­blous smoke, with stinke of Brimstone that could not be abidden, and when we were come to those places, we saw on euery syde, woes, there the pleasaunt noise of Insturmentes, are woes,Nothing but woes in Hell. swéete songs are woes, feasting and bāket [...]ing are woes, there, discourses and loue toyes are woes, playes and pastimes are woes, huntings and goodly painted storyes are woes, sights and triumphes are woes, occupations and marchan­dises, all sortes of pleasure and exercise, and of eue­ry other thing, is nothing but woes, and among all these woes,One wo grea­ter then the rest. there is one as if it were king and Prince of the other, which is the vtter depriuation of al hope, to come out of these woes. All are tormented wyth fire and Brimstone,Apo. 14. as Saint Iohn sayth in his reue­lation, and the smoke of their tormentes,The paynes of Hel described ascendeth vp for euer and euer. And they neuer haue rest, neyther day nor nyght, and they cry pieteously to the Lorde, and the Lorde heareth them not. Then knewe they playnly, that all worldly thinges, that were causes to bring them thether, are but vanityes, and they would repent, but there repentance helpeth them not: wher­fore [Page] they blaspheme the name of God,Apoc. 16. feling the do­lor of their tormentes, & gnawe their owne tongues for sorowe and rage,Apo. 14. and féele an intollerable thriste, and in so greate burning they drinke of the cuppe of Gods wrath, & for their greater torment, they sée the happynesse of the blessed, and from their eyes conti­nually raine teares, & from their mouthes issue gnas­shing of téeth, and they still burne, and neuer are bur­ned, and they séeke death, and death flyeth from them, and yet are they still in death, and shall be for euer, so that they styll dye, and neuer giue ouer to death. And in effect, there is no trouble, sorowe, miserie, vnhappi­nesse, nor afflection what so euer it be in this worlde,The paynes of of this life are nothing to those of Hell. that (in comparison of that they féele in hel) is not plea­sant. And this know for truth, that I can not by talke make thée vnderstād, the very least part of that which by sight I comprehended: thinke thou then, what that is, that they must nedes continually comprehende by féeling.

Thou makest me tremble from toppe to toe, hearing thée tell such horrible and feare­full torments, the which do so much y^• more put me in feare, as that I knowe them to be true, for in the Apo­calipse, and in manye other places of the scripture, a man may reade, the things that agrée iust with thy saying: But I woulde fame learne of thée, whether they were naked or clothed.

They are all naked,Apoc. 16. and do shew the filthinesse of their nakednesse.

How can this hang together? Didst thou not say, that their bodyes are yet in the earth? Howe do they then shewe the filthinesse of their nakednesse?

Thou knowest that while we be in our mo­thers wombe, we haue about vs a certayne fleshe that couereth vs, the which, so sone as we come forth, into [Page 97] the light of this worlde, it doth leaue vs and goe from about vs, it is called in Latine

That same is our owne laweful and naturall clothing, the which for al that serueth vs not, but while we be in the dark­nesse of our mothers wombe: but as sone as we come into the light,The misterie of man com­ming into this world. we remayne naked, if we prouide vs not things from other: and if therefore we wil couer our nakednesse, we clothe our selues wyth the Woll of the shéepe. Euen iust so, is it of the nakednesse, that nowe I tell thée of, for while we be in the darkenesse of this worlde, we may well couer our selues wyth our owne proper merites, and good works: but forth­with as we enter into the light of gods presence, these merites of ours, which are nothing else but flesh and sy [...]ne, goe from vs and forsake vs, and we come to remaine naked,We are all naked of good works and therfore must be clothed with Christs rightuousnes. vnlesse we cloth our selues w^t the wol of that moste méeke shepe, that without opening his mouth, was led to the slaughter, to cloth vs with hys woll, and féede vs with his flesh, and to giue vs drinke with his bloude, euen with the bloude of that méeke Lambe of God, that taketh awaye the sinnes of the worlde. These men therefore, of whom we spake,Esay. 53. by­cause they were not clothed with this woll,Psa. 53. that is to wete, the merites of Iesus Christ,Act. 8. shewe forth the fil­thinesse of their nakednesse,Io. 6. not that nakednesse of the body, but that of the soule, for as much as their sinnes, mischieuous déedes, there euil thoughts, and all other their filthynesse are openly shewed and seene.

What kinde of people be they, shewe me some particularity.)

There are some Hebrevves, In hell are of all sorts of men. some Caldeans, some Arabiās, some Indians, some A­fricanes, some Svvithians, some Turkes, some Moores, some Christians, as Dutchmen, Frenchmen, Spani­ards, [Page] Italians, riche, poore, men, women, and finally a [...] sortes of people.

Of which sorte, is there the greatest number?

Of those that haue worshipped the beast,Apoc. 14. and his Image, and haue recey­ued his marke, and haue committed fornication with hir, and are dronken with the wine of hir whoredome.

I vnderstand not this talke of thine.

In the middes of the bottomlesse pitte, I sawe a very great Dragon,Apoc. 12. of redde colour, which had seuē heades, and euery heade had a crowne, and ten great hornes, and a tayle of an vnmeasurable length, with the which he had drawen to the bottomlesse pit, an vn­speakeable & incomprehēsible nūber of the people of y^• world. Beside this Dragon, I saw a beast with seauen heades,Apoc. 17. & ten hornes, and euery horne had a crowne, & with a skinne like a Leoparde, and hauing the féete of a Beare, and the mouth of a Lyon, and to thys beast the Dragon had giuen his full power, his seate and great authority, wherby y^• Dragon was worshipped, bycause he had giuen power to the beast, and the beast was worshipped, for that it was estemed aboue all o­ther beastes, for the wonders it wrought, while it was vpon earth. All those therefore, that haue worshipped the beast, and haue receyued his marke, haue bene by the beast drawen downe with him into y^• bottomlesse pytte, whither Goddes iustice hath committed them, for euer.

I vnderstand thée now lesse than I did before.

This beast, is the sonne of perdition,2. Thessal. 2. of whom Paule speaketh to the Thessalo­nians. That is exalted aboue all, that is called God, & that sitteth in the temple of God, as God, and she­vveth himself as God. This beast is that monstrous wicked beast, of whom Saint Iohn speaketh so plain­ly [Page 98] in the .xvij. Chapter of hys Reuelation, & the Dra­gon is that olde Serpente, that from the beginning hath with his poyson brought death into the worlde.

I pray thée, if thou wilt haue me to vnder­stande thée, speake a little more plainelye.

This beaste (to speake so as thou mayest vnderstande me) is the Pope,What the beast is. What the dragon is. and the Dragon is the Diuel.

What, the Pope? Why is he not in Rome?

I speake not of one perticuler man, but I speake generally.

What doe not all Po­pes generally dwell in Rome?

Yea, while they be a lyue,The Popes dwelling place. and after their death in the bottomlesse pitte.

Thou meanest therefore that all those, that haue put their confidence in the Pope, and haue followed his wayes, are dampned, and that the Pope, hath no power from God, but from the Diuel?

Now thou vnderstandest the matter, it ne­deth not that I declare the same any better vnto thée.

Thou shalt doe me great pleasure to tell me the meaning of those things, that thou hast shewed vnto me.

It woulde aske to much tyme,Gene. 3. to open to thée the whole.Psal. 17. 73. 90. 103. But I will tell thée brieflye as the tyme will serue. The Dragon as thou hast heard, is the Diuell:Iohn. 8. he is redde, through the bloud of Mar­tyrs, for he was euer a murtherer frō the beginning. The seauen heads he hath,The descripti­on of the dra­gon. are seauen sundry beasts, whose nature they signifie. By y^• crowne & Diademes, are ment the Kings and Princes, that are the Diuels ministers, to kil and persecute such as defende y^• honor and glorye of Iesus Christ: the number determinate, signifieth the multitude: the taile signifieth his folo­wers, and Ministers, through whose labour and dily­gence he draweth vnto him so many wicked persons. [Page] The beast, that standeth by him, is (as I haue told thée) the Pope,The descrip­tion of the beast. his confiderate and good Minister. The se­uen heades are seuen hilles of Rome, where his seate is, the hornes and Crownes, are the Kings, and great Lordes, that for his sake and respecte, persecute the true seruaunts of Christ, that defende the Gospel. The Leopardes skin signifieth his vnstedfastnesse, and in­constrancie, his Beares féete and hys Lyons mouth, signifieth his gredinesse, his rauening, and his cruel­tie, the power that he hath of the Dragon, meaneth the force and efficacye of hys deceyuing, the seate sig­nifieth his kingdome, and domynion, the power he gaue, betokeneth the vertue to worke wonders, and great signes: that with these thrée thinges he maye kepe the worlde drowned in darknesse. And euen as Christ was sente from GOD into the worlde to saue it,Ioh. 3. euen so was he sent from the Diuell to destroy it.Antithesis. And as Chryst sytteth in the Throne of GOD in heauen,Apo. 4. euen so sitteth he in the Throne of the Dy­uell in Hell. Those therfore, that worship the Pope, & take him so, as he will be taken, & follow his wayes, & confesse him for Christes Uicar,Who haue the beastes marke & wrap themselues in his benefices, and for his sake, kill the defendours of the Gospell: these are they y^• haue the beastes marke, and that haue committed fornication with the whore, and all these are with the Deuill. And if thou wilt be sure, that it is as I tell thee, read the Apocalipse, and especially the .xiij. and .xvii. Chapters, where thou shalt finde that he sayeth playnely, that the seate of Anti­christ shall be in Rome,Rome the seate of An­tichrist. saying: That, that whore is a great city, that in Saint Iohns time had the whole dominion ouer the kings of the earth, the which can be none other but Rome.

That is y^• mat­ter, [Page 99] that in certayne olde bookes, printed long before Luther was euer spoken of, a man maye sée this beast painted with a Popes Miter on his heade, I thinke surely, he that painted it so, did Prophecie euen in those dayes.

Ye so he did,Apoc. 14. but Saint Iohn did more playnely prophecie, who sayth, y^• he that hath worshipped the beast, and receyued hys marke, the same shall drinke of the Cup of Gods wrath and shall be tormented with fyre and brimstone, euerlastingly. Euen as on the other part he sayeth,Apoc. 20. that those that haue suffered for the Gospell, and those that haue not worshipped the beast, nor receyued his marke, shall lyue and raigne with Christ for euer.

Thou sayest then that all Popes goe to the Diuell, for besides the proues that thou hast alledged, if those that followe them goe to the Deuill, it muste néedes be, that they also that leade them,If the blind lead the blind both fall into the dytche. goe thither them­selues also, but me thinketh it a harde matter to be­leue, that they be there al of them.

It ought rather to thée a harder matter to beleue, that they shoulde not be there all of them: for thou knowest, that two contraries can not stande togither. Christ and Antichrist are contraries, howe wilt thou haue it therefore, that they may be togither? That the Pope is Antichrist, thou shouldest not nowe be in doubt, as well for the authorities that I haue now alledged vn­to thée out of the Apocalipse: as also for that I tolde thée before in my voyage to heauē, and for y^• that Mai­ster Bernardino Ochino, Bernardin, Ierome, and Theopila [...]. plainely pro [...] Rome to be the seat of Antichrist. sayeth, who paynteth hym out vnto thée and for that, which Saint Ierome say­eth, who plainely affirmeth that his seat is in Rome, and for that, which Theophilactus sayeth who shew­eth, that the Empire of Rome, the conquerour of all other Empires, shall be possessed by Antichrist, and by [Page] his manifest workes shewed vnto vs,A plaine proufe who is Antechrist. that he is the very same, to persecute the defendours of the gospel, is among many other, an vndoubted token.

Yet shoulde not (me thinke) Pope Gregorie be there,Pope Gregory confesseth that the Pope is Antechrist for he confessed, that, he that shoulde call him­selfe, Pope, & superiour ouer other Bishops, shoulde be the fore runner of Antechrist.

Loe, there is an other testimonie, that the Pope is Antechrist, and albeit he sayde the truth in this point, yet deuised he afterwarde so manye lyes, and dreames, as Pur­gatorie, Masses, the v [...]sitations of Rome (commonly called the stations) sole lyfe in Priestes and Church­men,Pope Gregory for his lies & blasphemies accompted among Ante­christes. and so many other blasphemies against y^• bloude and merites of Christ, that he may without al doubt, be accompted also among the other Antechristes, who thou must vnderstande are infinite: albeit for his no­torious worthynesse he shall be called Antechrist, that shall be worsse than al the rest, and al the Popes state, put them all together, yet will he say that Antechrist must come, as Gregorie sayde. It is true that there haue bene dyuers Gregories, and it may be, that some one of them hath bene good and honest, but all such as haue bene Popes, are in the lake that burneth with fyre and brimstone in the bottomelesse pit. They that were the first, were lesse wicked, but sithens haue they growen worsse and worsse, and the last shal be y^• worst of all,Pasquine pro­phecieth truly of Chietti, for neuer was there nor can be a worsse than Paule the fourthe. and I thinke that shall be the Cardinall Chietti, except the dutch Launceknights come into Italic before, and so make Pope Paule the thirde to be the last.

And yet perhappes they wyll not be taken for the verye maisters, or heads, for they call themselues, Serui seruorum Dei, and Prouiden­tia diuina Papa. P. tertius, and a number of such gaye [Page 100] glistering titles, they outwardly shewe.

This was the cause,Math. 7. wherefore Christ sayde, that out­wardely they should be like shéepe, but inwardly they shoulde be Wolues, and Saint Paule sayeth, that they shall haue a shewe of Godlynesse,2. Tim. 3. but in effectes they shall be quite voyde of it. And marke well whe­ther they be made Popes by Gods diuine prouidence or no,A woman made Pope. when there was a woman once made Pope, they are made in déede by the prouidence of the Diuel, and not of God: for Gods prouidence knoweth well ynough,He. 5. 6. 7. 8. men from women, and hath made one onely highe Bishop, which is Christ.

Sawest thou that she Pope?

Yea mary did I sée hir.

And what canst thou tell me of hir?

Thou must vnderstande, that those thinges, that in this worlde, are in greatest highnesse, grea­test felicitie, and greatest glorie, there beneath, are in so much the more basenesse, wretchednesse, and shame, the Popes therefore, that in this worlde coulde not satisfie their hungry and gréedy desire of honor, being in the estate of Kings, and Princes, but woulde be estéemed aboue al other men, and aboue great Lords, and being not contented with this, haue lift vp them­selues, aboue the gospel,Popes haue there Heauen in this worlde and made themselues Gods in earth, in how great déepenesse of miserie they are their beneath passeth all mens imagination. And they are therefore so muche the more cruelly tormen­ted than other, as that they haue bene the greatest oc­casion of the losse of so many people. Thou mightest there haue séene them with Myters of glowing brim­stone on their heads,The descrip­tion of the Pope in his pontificalibus in Hell. & their other ornaments of their body all of glowing Brimstone, with their Chaires of glowing Brimstone, and they haue about them as [Page] seruaunts, woes and Diuels, and before them haue they infinite hostes of those gracelesse people, that fol­lowing their wicked steppes, are drowned with them in euerlasting miseries, al which of them doe nothing else, but cursse them and ban them. And before this shée Pope stande all those Rascalles, and séely fooles, that sith her tyme,Deuilles can abide no popes espsciallie no shee popes. haue beleued in the Popes autho­ritie, and their are they cast in y^• téeth with it, and cur­sed by the Deuils themselues, for that after so mani­fest a token, giuen by her from God to the worlde, as that they shoulde not meddle with Popes, woulde they yet néedes beleue them, and follow their curssed wayes.

And haue Popes then euen in hell, seruantes to waite vpon them.

Yea, suche maner ones, as I tolde thée of before.

Wherein, doe they any seruice vnto them?

To torment them euerlastingly.

What torments vsed they to them?

To go about to shew the torments of those that be dampned, shoulde be euen muche as to tell thée, howe manye graynes of sande are in the sea, and thou agayne to stande to heare them, wouldest be so stricken with feare, that thou wouldest not any more giue eare vn­to me. But let thys suffice thée, to knowe also that which Saint Iohn telleth thée,Ppoc. 14. that is to were, that they are tormented with fyre and brimstone for euer and euer. Thē saw I,Pageauntes set vp for popes in Hell. The decrée of Pope bonifaco the eyght. in sundry places, diuers Arches of triumph, (or Pageaunts as we may cal them) One was of Boniface the eyght of that name, for that goodly decree he made, that euerye worldly creature shoulde be obedient to the Pope as they wil be saued. And therein was grauen that decrée in euerye point as it standeth, sauing the laste worde, which is. (As [Page 101] they wil be dampned,) an other there was of Hilde­brande the Sorcerer, which afterwarde was, Pope Gregorie the seauenth,Pope Gregorie the seuenth. for his many and sundry new deuises, throughe the which, so manye seely wretches are gone headlong to the Diuell, and bicause also he did so malapertly stande against the great Princes of the worlde, as Boniface and many other, and almost all of them haue done. An other there was of Alex­ander Borgias, Alexander Borgias. in the which, beside his other notable and famous factes,Incest com­mitted by a Pope (and his brother) with his owne daughter. was grauen also that worthy and holy acte of his, to lye with his owne naturall daugh­ter Lucrece, with whome also Duke Valentine his brother lay. An other there was of Iulius the seconde full of horrible bloudsheddings and adulteries. Ano­ther there was of Leo the tenth,Iulius the [...] Leo the tenth. Peter Lewes. Paule the .iij. in the which a man might sée, how the tributes of y^• great cities of Sodome & Gomorre were brought vnto him. And yet was there one much fayrer, y^• was preparing for Peter Levves, some to Pope Paule y^• third, and one for his father also

And of y^• great princes of y^• worlde, whom sawest thou?

The greater part, and within a fewe of all.

What is the cause, that so many of them be dampned?

The causes are many, but the principall cause is, that for as muche as they haue receyued their powers and dominions frō God, as the Scripture sayeth: By mePro. 8. Kings doe raigne &c.:Rom. 13. There is no power but of god, the powers that are, are ordeyned of God. &c. He it is that maketh the wicked to rule for the sinnes of the people. This haue not they acknowledged frō God, nor haue with their good example, and good gouernement, kept their peo­ple in the feare of God, nay thinking rather that they did highe seruice to God, haue slayne suche as defend [Page] the Gospell,The office of Kinges and Rule [...]s. and the honor of Christ. Whereas they ought rather to haue abolished all the sundry se [...]es of Friers, all Idolatries, the carcasses and bones of the dead, such as they call Saints, in the which, they put all their religion, and should rather haue regarde and care to honest maydens, to the poore, olde, sicke and impotent persones, relieuing them with that in­finite richesse, that vniustely and wickedly are posses­sed by the smered swarme of shauelings, and ought to suffer or rather to cause Iesus Christ to be prea­ched. But they doe contrarywise persecute, and suf­fer to be persecuted such as preach him, and worsse do those of these dayes, than those of foretymes, for these are some for one wordely respecte, and some for an other, so ioyned in league with this wicked beast, that they haue more regarde to Antechrist, than to Christ. In Christes cause there is not one, that will once speake a worde,Antechrist more regar­ded than Christe. doubting least he shoulde be called a Lutherian: but for Antechristes cause ech man will discouer himselfe what he is, against suche as defend Christ, calling them Herctiques, and persecuting thē euen to the death: Maruell not therefore, if they also be condempned by their head, whome they haue per­secuted in his members.

Canst thou not tell me anye one sundry sorte of torments, that these great princes had different from the other? Yea,The punnish­ment of Kings in H [...]ll. that I can, thou knowest that they will, still aboue al o­ther things, be honored, magnified, flattered, and fedde with the smoke of clawing talke: In Hel ther­fore, they are a good parte of the tyme, hanged vp in the smoke of that cursed brimstone.

What, & are not the Popes serued with the same sause?

More they, than the other.

Whom [Page 102] diddest thou sée particularly? Talke to me a little of some one namely among the rest.

Herein will I doe, not after thyne, but after Plato his minde, who willeth that when a man commeth to particula­rities he ought to make a staye, for if I woulde come to those particularly, there shoulde be fewe alyue,To tell truth bredeth ha­tred. but they woulde banishe me.

Why and are men for saying the truth, banished by Princes and great men?

Yea, and with the worst kinde of banishment that they can, and most of all, those that most speake the truth, for they are not content to banish them out of their countreys that confesse the way of Christ, (which onely is true,) but they banishe them out of the worlde.

Let them there­fore remayne with the Diuell, sith they are there al­ready, and being such maner of men as they be. But tell me, how diddest thou know them, being confuse­ly scattered among other, and being naked, as thou hast sayde before? thou couldest neyther knowe them by their apparell, nor yet bicause they were not placed in order.

I knewe them by their sinnes, the which (as I tolde thée) are al playnely séene. In them a man might sée the sinnes of great men,Sinnes wher [...] to Kings and great men are most euclined as for cram­ple, neuer to forgiue iniuries receyued, to worke re­uenge for euery trifle, to be occasion of the death, of numbers of their people, to fulfill their appetite, to defile their Uassals wyues, to punishe the good, to re­warde the euill, to dispise vertue, to fauoure vice, and suche other small pieuish faultes, and beside that, they were all castin the téeth by the Diuelles, with these wordes among other.Psal. 49. The man that vvas in honor hath not thankfullye receyued the same, but vvas as beastes vvithoute vnderstanding, beholde his glo­rye [Page] commeth not dovvne vvith him hyther belovve.

This was the way, to make them to be knowen to thée for great men, generally: but howe didst thou knowe them one from an other particuler­lye?

I knewe them by the selfe same to­ken, that I tolde thée, for as much as their sinnes are discouered, and the names of euery one of them, and this is done fo: their greater torment, for what mat­ter were it, if sinnes were séene, & it were not knowen whose sinnes they were? I tell thée,Esa. 47. they shewe the fil­thinesse of their nakednesse,Apo. 16. and euery one is knowē what he is.

The Fryers therefore,Friers and Nounes sore asshamed in Hell. the Nunnes, the lay Sisters, and all the other Ipocrites, must nedes be full of sorrowe, séeing so manye, and so grieuous of their abhominable wickednesse discoue­red, which in this worlde they haue had so great care to kepe close.

Thou mayest be sure of that.

Saint Benets Monks should there find thē selues much deceyued, in that they obeyed their holye Abbot, in that godly saying. Sion caste, tamen cautè.

They are them selues deceyued, and all o­ther, that haue sayd, that a faulte closely done, is halfe pardoned.

Thou shouldst me thinke ther­fore sée, many goodly things of Fryers, and of their lo­uers.

Nay I sawe things that were so fil­thy, that they were to shamefull euen in very Hell. There mightest thou haue sene howe Fryers medled with Nunnes and laye sisters,A beadroll of the vnspeaka­ble filthinesse & other mis­chieues day­ly committed by the Popes religious [...]a­ble. and with worsse, thou mightest haue sene the murthering of yong babes, and bycause their dishonesties should not be discoured, y^• mightest haue sene that they were cast into the Iake­ses. Thou mightest there haue sene also one Fryer teach, one woman the way howe she shoulde not con­ceyue [Page 103] with child, an other, Fryer taught an other wo­man the way to destroy the child in hir body, an other Fryer taught an other woman, the way to poyson hir husbande. This Fryer gaue to his woman some of hys holye Oyle, to worke inchauntmentes to those of the house. One Fryer gaue to hys Leman one of hys consecrate Hostes, for the same purpose. An other kylled a whole householde, wyth gyuing them things to eate that shoulde make them sléepe, bycause he would not be sene go into the house, to play y^• knaue with the good wyfe. One false priest fayned that our Lady had wrought miracles, bycause there might be some offerings brought to hir by the foolishe ignorant people. An other persecuted the Christians, and prea­ched against the truth, bycause he woulde be made a Byshop or a Cardinall. An other false knaue in con­fession caused a simple foolishe woman to giue him hir money in keping, and afterwarde denyed it to hir. An other Frier sat tooting in the bosome of a simple yong Maid (whom hir foolish mother had brought to be shri­uen) that she might begin to learne some of the friers knauery. An other in confession persuaded him that was sicke (peraduenture more in his soule than in hys body) to leaue his goodes vnto their Monasteries, de­priuing therof the true and lawfull heyres. This good sonne wished his owne fathers death, that he mighte do after his owne minde. That Nephew killed maister Parson his vncle, the soner to succéede him in the be­nefice, that afterwarde he must leaue vnto him. That woman defiled hir husbandes bed, and this good man his wyues. That wicked and naughty seruaunt be­trayed his mayster, to whom he oughte by Gods com­maūdement to be obedient, and faithful. Thou migh­test [Page] there haue sene, Simonies, Sodomies, Ipocrisies Robberies, Scismes, Apostasies, and those, more in the polleshorne Prelates than in al y^• other. Then saw I in dyuers parts, dyuers signes of victorye. There was to be séene, grauen the glorious cognisaunce, of the Chanon of Turney: who after his death lefte a booke, wherein he had noted, the name and house of two hundreth womē of the chiefest of that City whom he had enioyed at his pleasure.A chast cha­non. There was also to be sene, how a false théefe a Fryer in Friseland, had put into the heades of the foolish women this opinion, that they must giue to the Church the tenth of all things, and euen in lyke maner,Tenth nights payde to the Church men. the tenth night as they do to their husbandes. And howe also an other trayterous Frier with an host poysoned, brought to his death Henry the seuenth Emperour of that name. Then hearde we a noyse, a busteling, and such a confusion, that we thought,An Empe­rour poysoned with an hoste. they would haue made a Pope.

Whence came that noyse?

From y^• Diuelles,Diuels kepe Consistorie. who kept consistorye.

Knowest thou what things were treated of?

They treated of those selfe same thinges, that I tolde thée, were treated of in that councell, that was kept in the Popes heauen. They cryed al with one voyce, downe with the Lutheranes, as Rebels, enimes, and destroi­ers of the infernal kingdom. And one of them, procla­ming silence, (such as in that place coulde be,) sayde. Cursed Diuels, you knovve, that from the beginning of the first man hitherto, vve haue had alvvayes try­bute of the vvorld, An oration of a diuell. and vvhen our kingdom did most flourish in ryches, came that greate enimye of ours, vvhome here belovve vve can not name, and vtterly destroyed vs: vve then vvith our subtilty, and earnest [Page 104] trauaile, stirred vp so many sundry sortes of Fryers, & thervvithal our vvicked brother Antechrist, by vvhi­che meanes, so manye and great trybutes so freshlye came from all partes vnto oure kingdome, that it is novve become more ryche, than euer it vvas before. But last of al hath our enimy, begīning on the north parts, raysed vp so many of his faythfull in all Euro­pa, and almost throughout the vvhole vvorlde, vvho haue discouered the Pope to be Antechrist, and hys Fryers to be Ipocrites, that you see, that the vvay, that leadeth dovvne hyther, and that in tymes past vvas, vvonte to be so vvell troden, is novve become full of, grasse, and thornes, and if vve do not prouide the bet­ter, vvill be altogether shutte vp. True it is, that our brothers the Dominicanes, and other manye, and our vvicked brother Antechrist vvith his mēbers the Cardinals, Prelates, and all other vvith shauen crovv­nes, and the princes also of the vvorld, do all their en­deuour, in our furtheraunce and fauour, killing the vvelbeloued of our enimy. This notvvithstanding, it is your office and dutye, to pricke forvvarde vvith all the povver you can make, our ministers, the Fryers, priestes, and all such as be ioyned in league vvith our faithfull brother Antechrist, that they (more novve than euer they did before) do persecute, imprison, and dryue out of the vvorlde, all those, that giue to our e­nimy onelye the prayse, that (vnder dyuers Images,) vvas vvont to be giuen to vs, those also that haue cha­rity, that doe forgiue iniuries receyued, that doe giue great almesse & other like vvorks, to vs most cōtrary, that by these meanes the number of our enimyes may be deminished, & the number of our cōfederats incre­sed. Here against spake the other diuels, saying: that [Page] things must not so be done, for we sée already quoth they by plaine experience, that the more those men are slayne and destroyed, the more they do increase. Then spake an other Diuell. And why quoth he, take we such thought for this matter? Haue not we our mini­sters the Market monsters, that worke better for vs, than we oure selues can desire? Is not the Citye of Rome yet in his chiefest glory, the which we may call our infernall Ierusalem? One Diuell spake againste this, an other against that, so y^• being al full of wrang­ling, & cōfusion (euen as is it the vse in Fryer houses) they departed all without any agréeing. Yet did they all apply them selues, some in one sorte, other in an o­ther, to cause the number of the dampned soules still to be increased, albeit not one of Christes shéepe can perishe. How fowle these things were to be sene, how great feare and horror they brought with them, there is no tongue that can expresse it.

I beleue it well, but sawest thou any other thing, that may be tolde?

I sawe many other thinges but a­mongst the rest,The catholike Church, Christes es­pouse. euen as in Gods true heauen, I sawe the Catholike Church of the faythful, to be the espouse of Christ, euen so sawe I in the bottomlesse pitte, the Malignant Church of Rome, to be the Diuels whore. And as that was in the world,The malig­naunte Church, the diueles whore. in so great trouble, & is now with hir most swete espouse Christ in vnspeaka­ble happynesse: euen so, this malignant Churche, that was in the world in so great feliciie, is now with the most cruell diuell in vnspeakable payne and sor­rowe.

Didst thou knowe there belowe no one friend of thine.

No friend of mine, but I knew in dede a great number of these siely shéepishe siely women, that thou séest go all day vp and downe, [Page 105] with a Réede in their hand, of whom if thou demaund whyther go ye good mother B? they aunswere,Stations are certaine churches where pardons bee graunted. I goe to the Stations, for the soules of my father & my mo­ther. I knew there Iohn Ecchius, I knew ther Pighius I sawe there Albert Byshop of Chiozza, there saw I Gilbert Bishop of Verona, I sawe there many of the Sorbonists of Paris, and I saw there, to tell thée at a worde, all those y^• in my traunce I sawe in the Popes heauē, I saw them (in their right being) in Hel, where they are in so greate a depth of miseries, tormentes, and sorowes, that we whyle we be tormented by them in this world, ought yet to haue great cōpassion of thē, & pray to the Lord for thē, that he vouchsafe to deliuer them out of so great miserie.

Was there nothing sayde to thée, by anye one that knewe thée?

There were many of them, that desired me that I woulde tell their kinsfolkes that are here, that they should not follow their footesteps, that they might not come afterwardes into those tormentes, and the Bergamaschi prayed me heartily that I would giue warning to their heires, that they should spende no more money in Masses, nor in anye other thing, for their soules, for in any wise the Money is caste a­way.

What answere madest thou to thē?

I sayde, they haue the Gospel,Luc. 16. to the which if they giue no eare, lesse wil they giue eare vnto me.

So answere Abraham to the riche man, but what sayde they to this?

They gaue me most boyling sighes, for answere: they renewed with double force, the dolefull woes, their torments were doubled, their flames of fyre increased, the smoke and stinke grewe still greater, their sorrowe waxed more vehement, they cryed our Misericordia, and were not [Page] heard, their wéeping and gnashing of téeth augmen­ted, they called and cryed for death, and all in vayne, euery thing was death, their howlings grew great­ter: euery thing was fyre, euery thing was smoke, euery thing was Diuels, euery thing was sorrowe, tormenting, miserie, rage, and so great infelicity, that bicause I was neyther able to sée it, nor heare it, sith the very Deuils, thēselues were weary of it, I pray­ed myne Aungell that he woulde bring me backe hi­ther agayne, and so it was done.

When thou begānest to talke, of thy going to Hell, thou did­dest promise me to tell me, how thou diddest to come backe agayne. Nowe it is tyme, that thou tell me it.

Knowest thou not, that the scripture sayth. That the gates of Hell haue no maner of povver a­gainst the Church of Christ? Math. 16.

Yea,

The gates of hell coulde not therefore hold me in, but that I did come out.

Did the An­gell then forthwith leaue thée?

No, for he came along with me, euen vnto Prima porta, talking with me of the things we had séene: and he promised me, to cause me in the like traunce also, to sée the destruc­tion of the worlde, and the dreadefull doome of Iesus Christ.

Oh I praye thée, when that tyme shall be, make me partaker thereof I heartily besech thée.

I will without doubt. It is now tyme for me to be going my wayes. Adewe good brother.

Goe in the Lordes peace. To whom wyth all heart, tongue and pen, be giuen al praise and glory both nowe and for euer. Amen.

PAsquine hauing now of late yeares put for the many matters and in dyuers maners, bicause he hath spente his wordes in vayne, doth nowe therefore propone cer­tayne questions to be disputed, of the which he desireth to be better satisfied, for that he heareth, that they are verye often called in controuersie. And firste

1 Whether the [...]inginge that Fryers make euery daye, maye rather be called labour and toyle of Asses: and a trauaile of the bodye rather than of the minde.

2 Whether the Canōs (or Prebendaries as we cal them) comming to sitte in the Quéeres and Churches for the gayne they haue thereby, doe receyue their re­warde in this worlde.

3 Whether Resignations, permutations, chop­ping and chaunging, and suche comming to benefi­ces as nowe is dayly vsed, be Simonie.

4 Whether such as say and sel Masses for money, may be compared to Iudas that solde Christ, or to the Porters of Paris that in euery streat offer themselues to hire, and crie. A newe mayster a newe.

5 Whether it be to be suffered, that Fryers and Nonnes shoulde marry, sith Christ sayde that all men [Page] coulde not comprehende that saying.

6 Whether it be perillous and not to be suffered by Citizens, that the fatte and well fedde Priestes, & such as are ful of idlenesse, & lasciuious lyuing, should dwell so néere them without wyues of their owne.

7 Whether it be néedefull in any Citie to haue so many thousād of Massemombling priestes, of which, fewe or none, teache or can teache the Gospell, sith Christ commaunded his Apostles, as their very duety and office, saying. Go ye preach the gospell. &c.

8 Whether suche as instruct not the people, that is to say, which doe not the very true office, that be­longeth to the Church, maye receyue and enioye the goods of the Church, or are to be called Theues and Robbers

9 Whether that, graunting the iustification by fayth in Christ, Purgatorye be ouerthrowne and all that is built therevpon.

10 Whether there be in all Europe any one Bis­shop, that doth his office in suche sorte, as was prescri­bed by the Apostles.

11 Whether the Bishops that are carelesse of their flocke, & fall only to flaying their shéepe, may be called true Pastours, or Hyrelings, as Christ sayeth.

12 Whether the shauen crowne, and the smearing of Priestes hands, be the beastes marke, whereof the Apocalipse speaketh.

13 Whether the Schole doctours, that take no payne with their doctrine, but are euer vp with Che­rubin and the Angels, ought to be called rather Spe­culatours, than Practicioners.

14 Whether suche as woulde not haue the holye Scripture to be readde by the people, doe freat and [Page 107] rage with in themselues? that such bookes are abroad.

15 Whether the .xxi [...]j. Chapter of Mathew may be applied to the Diuines, Fryers, Priestes, and al the rest of the Popes rable, of our tyme.

16 Whether the persecutours of the Gospell and the truth in our tyme, may be compared to the Pha­risies which sought the death of Christ & his Apostles.

17 Whether, the lyke matter doe not nowe in these dayes stirre vp the Papistes against the truth of the Gospell, as is recited in the Actes of the Apostles, concerning Diana of Ephesus.

18 Whether that saying of the Gospell. Beware of false Prophets:Math. 7. And that also of Peter. That through couetousnesse they shall make marchandise of you with fayned wordes,2. Peter. 2. and manye other lyke places of the Scripture, do rightly belong to the whole swarme of shauen Papistes.

19 Whether that which Christ speaketh in the .xxiiij of Mathewe, of many false Prophets that shall come, may be vnderstand to be the sundry sectes of Monkes and Fryers, who, some by one way, some by an other, some by the helpe of this saint, and some by that saint, go about to come to heauen.

20 Whether that whiche Paule foretolde should come,1. Tim. 4. that in the latter tymes shoulde aryse men of euill conscience, forbidding matrimony and meates, (which God hath created to be taken with thankes gi­uing,) may be ment to be of the Pope, which hath for­bidden all these things.

21 Whether Fryers and all the rest of the smea­red shauelings, hauing bene so often taken with the maner to vse deceyte, and to mocke the simple people with newe founde miracles, be therefore any more to [Page] be trusted afterwarde, according to the olde rule: he that is once a false knaue, it is maruell if euer he be honest man after.

22 Whether that saying of Daniel of the Abhomi­nation of desolation standing in the holy place,Math. 14. maye be aptly applyed to y^e Churches of our tyme, in which the Pope s [...]lleth heauen for mony, which is sene to be the greatest & moste vnspeakeable abhominatiō that can be.

23 Whether it be true that their Church as they say can not erre, and yet they cōfesse them selues that there are many abuses, whiche their Church hath hy­therto brought in, and also encreased.

24 Whether the Pope with all his religious ra­ble, be the true Church of Christ, sith they folow christ neyther in doctrine nor liuing.

25 Whether the Pope be the man of sinne, & the Sonne of perdition, that sitteth in the temple of God, & exalteth him selfe aboue all that is called God, as Paule sayth in the second epistle to the Thessolonians the second Chapter▪ Sith that place can not be vnder­stande of any Tyrant, that by force of armes rageth or spoyleth, but of him that vnder colour of Religion, putteth in vre his infinite Tiranny vpon the mindes and consciences of men, y^• vnder pretence of holinesse doth make and determine what he listeth: which long time hath flourished and triumphed in his ruffe, bi­cause he was not knowen, till at the laste in his due tyme, he is discouered & reuealed by the spirit of Gods mouth: y^• is to say, through the preaching of the gospel.

26 Whether the Pope be that greate whore wyth whom the Kings of the earth haue committed forni­cation: and with whose cuppe of hir abhomination, [Page 108] all nations are dronke as the Apocalipse sayth.

27 Whether the Pope be that litle horne that hath eyes and a mouth speaking great things,Apoc. 17. 18. that Daniel speaketh of.

28 Whether the Pope being Antechrist, maye be Christes U [...]are.

29 Whether Monkes, Fryers, and all the rest of the polleshorne Papists, be those marchants of whom the Apocalipse speaketh.

30 Whether the Popes Sea, and the Courte of Rome, which is so defiled with al maner of filthinesse, may be called Babylon.

31 Whether a man maye beleue, that the Pope meaneth or can call, a godly and frée generall Coun­cell, in the whiche so great an ouerflowing of euilles and mischiefes, as he himselfe hath brought vpon the worlde, may lawfully be purged.

32 Whether Pope P. who is reported to be most couetous, doe at any tyme thinke of God, sith Christ sayth. Where your treasure is there is your hart also.

33 Whether the Pope that is guilty of heresie,Math. 6. I­dolatry, and blasphemie, may be heade and Iudge o­uer a Councell.

34 Whether Peter Luis the Popes sonne, whom all men say to be a moste filthy Sodomite, be worthy to be chiefe Champion and capitaine of the Church.

35 Whether it be expedient for the Christian com­mon weale, to take awaye from the Pope his king­domes & dominions, that thereby it may be sene whe­ther he will returne to the aunciēt office of the church.

36 Whether the Pope would haue Germany, yea, rather all the worlde destroyed by warres; than that his tyranny & power should be any whit diminished.

[Page]37 Whether it may be doubted, that the Papa [...], and y^• great beast will not shortly haue an ouerthrow, as the Scripture sayth, sith long sithens Boheme, and almoste all Germany, all Denmarke, Englande, and Scotlande, haue fallen from hir, and secretly France, and Italy.

38 Whether the Frenche king haue iust cause to forbidde that no more money henceforward be caried to Rome, sith Popes haue in tymes past being furni­shed with the ryches and armure of Fraunce, made warre vpon the Frenche.

39 Whether the Pope dispensing all things for money, may be called Pope penny Father, and there­fore be suspected of Couetousnesse.

40 Whether there maye be any hope of goodnesse conceyued of the Popes recouerie, and of his sworne shauelings, sith Christ denyeth, that blasphemers and suche as withstande the truth against their conscien­ces, can be healed.

41 Whether the primacie of the Popes sée, be law­fully come by, sith it was gotten of Phocas the Empe­ror, who was a murtherer, & secretely and with great treason slewe the Emperour Mauritius his Lorde.

42 Whether the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops be or ought to be called Christes spouse, sith they kéepe at home so many whores and boyes.

43 Whether if Christ were in these dayes among the Papistes, he should be crucified againe as he was by the Scribes and Pharisies.

44 Whether that Pope that made the decretall De duobus luminaribus magnis, be to be compared with them that built the Towre of Babilon.

45 Whether Pope Innoce [...]t the eyght, that was [Page 109] vtterly ignoraunt and vnlearned, might be dispensed with, to say masse.

46 Whether Pope Iulius the seconde who was a warriour, did playnely shewe that Antechrist was al­ready come, and that it néeded not any longer to looke for him.

47 Whether Pope Lyon the tenth a verye Sarda­napalus, might be compared with the riche glutton.

48 Whether Pope Clement the seauenth, who was the match to kindle the fyre of warres betwéene Princes, filled vp the measure of his forefathers.

49 Whether Pope Paule the thirde who wholly was giuen to Necromancie, may be excommunicate.

50 Whether it be to be beleued, first that the Pope wisheth from his heart y^e concorde of Princes, sithens his foregoers, were euer the beginners of warres: Then, if [...]he wishe it, whether it be for the common weale sake, or for his owne priuate cause: Lastly, whe­ther peace made by his request maye eyther be of any continuance, or else haue any good successe. For that Christ sayeth,Mat. 7. that an euyll tree can bring forthe no good fruites.

51 Whether the Popes purpose, when he séemeth to goe about to reconcile Princes, be lyke vnto that counsell which the Diuell put into Pilates wyues minde,Mat. 27. and that was, not bicause the death and tor­ments of Christ did anye whit grieue hir, but bicause she sawe that hir kingdome and tirannie suffered vi­olence, and suche hurt as coulde not be recouered.

52 Whether the ende of this alteration of our tyme can be anye other than sorowfull, horrible and lamentable, [...]ithe the filthinesse of the Antechristian and Popish kingdome is so terrible and incompre­hensible, [Page] and the obstinacie so outragious as can not be spoken.

53 Whether the writings of Sadoletus: and other that hytherto haue valiauntly defended the Popishe church be to be accompted suspect, sith now they suffer honors and dignities to be giuen by the Pope, whe­ther they will or no.

54 Whether the Pope, that nowe at the last hath graunted a legate to Fraunce, coulde wel skill of that which was wont to be sayde, that is to saye: Of two euils (that is to meane the Patriarch and the Legate) the least is to be chosen.

55 Whether the Pope if he knewe that it woulde come to passe that the Emperour and the French king woulde not ioyne their forces togither, and help him against the Protestaunts, that he woulde once speake of peace or of a generall counsell.

56 Whether it may be confessed that God for our wickednesse and ingratitude, is not highely offended with vs, sithe we sée all our counsels and deuises haue so euil successe, and warre to arise in an others necke, one mischiefe after an other, and all our purposes, vpon y^e sodaine to quaile, & so to be eftsones confoun­ded with newe lettes, that we cannot sée which ende to begin at.

57 Whether that kings and Princes, who albeit in this moste cleare light in these dayes can not but néedes knowe Antechrist, and yet doe not onely dis­semble, but also séeke by all wayes & meanes to plea­sure him, and be at the becke of so open an enimy to the truth) ought to feare y^• as in time past God tooke from many Kings both their kingdome and people, so he will therefore deale with them.

[Page 110]58 Whether it be to be beleued, that Monkes and Fryers doe purpose or can finde out a true and godly reformation, as long as to their counsels and delibe­rations, they admit suche as for many causes are the Popes owne dearelings, and that they will rather suffer any thing, than eyther to léese any iote of their riches and commodities, or else to haue their wicked­nesse and knauerie discouered.

59 Whether the Pope, who by Cardinall Conta­rine, at Ratisbona after long contention in matters of religion, willed that all things shoulde be referred to a generall Counsell. And when the Princes of the Empire determined to haue a Nationall Counsell, if the same general Counsel began not within seauen Monethes, stoutly withstanding their decrée, did eui­dently shewe what might be looked for at his handes, and what his meaning was.

60 Whether when the same Cardinall Conta­rine saide in a certayne writing of his to the Princes of the Empire, that he hoped that it woulde come to passe that the Protestaunts woulde retorne to the lap of the church of Rome, and they likewise in a wryting of theirs made answere againe in a wryting of theirs that of al men they woulde neuer doe so: whether af­terwarde I saye néeded anye talke betwéene them for the matter.

61 Whether any ought in these dayes to be offen­ded, bicause the doctrine of the Gospel séemeth to bring dissentions and alterations, sith that Christe saith, that the same is a singuler token and most plaine de­monstration of his worde,Math. 10. which is to sende the sword, and not peace, and to set the sonne agaynst the father, and the daughter against the mother.

[Page]62 Whether that argument be of force, which ma­ny in these dayes do holde▪ that it is not to be beleued that God woulde haue our forefathers to erre vntyll this tyme, and to be without the true doctrine, for as much as by the same reason it may be asked, why the same God hath suffred Africa, and all Asia, to fall into so horrible darknesse▪ after they lost the lighte of the Gospell and newe doctrine brought in. For it muste be confessed, that all that remayned after the prea­ching of the Gospell was onely in Europa the thirde and least parte of the worlde.

63 Whether such as are in these dayes put to death in many places, be verye heritiques in dede: and al­beit, they be suche, whether they ought to be putte to death or no, for that Christ doth expresly commaund, that we suffer the cockle to grow with y^e corne, & not to roote the same vp.

64 Whether the decrées of the Fathers & of the Counselles ought to be referred and examined by the prescript rule of the gospel,1. Cor. 3. syth Paule so plainly said, That other foundation than that was already ought not to be layed, & yet shoulde it come to passe that ma­ny ther vpon would buylde, some golde, some stouble, some woode.

65 Whether those solepmne and ordinarie dispu­tacions of the Sorbonists, doe any thing profite to the vnderstanding of the holy scripture, syth they are al­together idle questions of vayne things, crooked, more than supercelestiall, crabbed, and Seraphicall, the which neither they that speake, nor those that heare them, do at any tyme vnderstande, and albeit they do vnderstande them, yet are they neuer a deale the bet­ter by them, or the better learned.

[Page 111]66 Whether if the Pope woulde at any tyme suffer in a generall counsell (if any shall hereafter be) any one article to be pulled away from him, that then it might not be truely saide & affirmed, that he is not the Churche, forasmuche as hitherto he standeth stiffe in defence, that the Church can not erre.

67 Whether the Church, that is to saye, a congre­gacion of people may erre, forasmuche as it is propre to mans nature to erre & fal. Then if it can not erre, for that they allege, where [...]two or thrée are gathered togyther in my name &c. Whether then the Consisto­ries of Popes, Cardinalles, and Byshops may erre, syth these many yeares they haue called theyr coun­selles, not to sette forthe Christes glory, but more & more to confirme and stablish their ryches and digni­tie, syth y^• the scripture telleth that in the latter times should spring horrible errors.

68 Whether in matters perteyning to faith and our Saluation, any other thing ought to be commā ­ded beside the gospell,Math. 7. 24. 61. syth Christ cōmaunded that his onely sonne should be heade and none other. And sithe also that Christe commaundeth vs to beware of men and of their doctrine.

69 Whether syth we plainely sée into howe fowle stincking abhominable errours we are fallen, synce we lefte the prescript rule of the Gospell, and opened the way to al mans traditions: we ought not to haue great cause, seing so many mischieues and incōueni­ences before our eies, to become wyse, to giue place, & casting aside al hautinesse of minde, giue ouer our sel­ues wholly to him, whiche onely cannot erre, & who commaunded that in his commaundements we ney­ther tourne asyde to the right or left hande.

[Page]70 Whether it ought to be confessed, that it is a great miraculous misterie, that religion, (which now is in disputacion, hath of so small & f [...]eble beginnings as by one man only who was notoriously condemp­ned in the beginning and counted as an abiected to y^e whole world or rather as a praye layed forth to al mē) hath so sprede it self and growne to such a greatnesse, that such as haue bene against it & withstoode it, may not iustely be affearde, if they haue any witte at all.

71 Whether such as will séeme to fauour the gos­pell, thereby to be thought that they know much, and do for all that flatter such as styre vp persecutions, may be compared to Herode who made more consci­ence to breake his vnlawfull promise to a Harlotte, than to saue the lyfe of so holy a man.

72 Whether that saying of the Gospell who lo­ueth his soule in this worlde, shall loose it. &c. may not aptly agrée with the fyne worldly wise heads of oure tyme, who for the doctrine of the Gospell, will not for any little suspicion therof receiue losse or displeasure but liue pleasauntly, and quietly, & kepe their riches and promotions vntouched.

73 Whether suche as in these dayes do confesse y^• there are errours, and in the meane tyme do not on­ly contempne, but also condempne such as do shewe them those errours: be lyke vnto the Pharisies that said to him that was borne blinde and had receyued his [...]ight,Iohn. 9. of Christ, we know that God spake to Moy­ses, but who this is (meaning Christe) we know not, nor whence he commeth.

74 Whether suche as for certeine opinions in re­ligion haue styrred vp horrible persecutions, & are be­come so madde therein, that more crueltie cannot be [Page 112] deuised: may not very wel, (if they wil acknowledge their offence, confesse that they are the begynners & authors of so outragious & mercilesse butcherie and slaughter.

75 Whether that saying of the Gospell (least hap­ly the Romaines come & take away oure place) Iohn xj. do hytte iuste, such Kings and Princes, as will be borne in hande, that if they receyue the gospell, it will come to passe, that their people will rebel and not be obedient.

76 Whether that whiche Paule speaking of the doctrines of Diuelies, whiche he in spirite foresawe shoulde arise, do serue right for the Papists? who for their tradicions,1. Tim. 4. slea, and in sundry sortes do torment men, which is the very nature of Sathan▪ who is de­lyted with murther and blonde, and whether the Pro­testants who persecute not their enimies, are not much to be preferred before the Papists, especially syth they haue both strongth and rychesse, wherewith if they were so disposed they might shew violence and crueltie as the Papists do.

77 Whether the Pope in this of all other the most pestilent tyme of warres, calling his Cardinalles and [...]hieflye the Frenche to Rome, for a counsell (as the show is made) to be holden, d [...]o penly mocke y^• world, syth in tyme of peace he made no maner mention of a Counsell, and now he doth it bycause he séeth & kno­weth that it is impossible to call them togyther, & es­pecially syth he vsed the selfe same fyne fetche, the last warres now past.

78 Whether the olde and newe Testament did euery where of it, beate into mennes heades, or com­maunde suche maner of Articles, as the Sorbonistes [Page] of Parys of late yeares made and caused [...] by Parlamēt, whether the same diuines wo [...] forbydde that the Bible shoulde not be printed in th [...] french tongue.

79 Whether the Sorbones of Parys, (who as it is sayde wrote to the Pope, and grieuously complayned that in restoring and vpholding their Church, which was about to fall, and would very shortly haue lyen in the dust, they were forsaken by those that should moste chiefly haue holpen them) deserue that punyshmente, that in tymes past, Bede the Diuine had.

80 Whether y^e same Diuines, (in despite of whom though they gayne sayd it as loude as they could cry, the french king willed and commaunded the Bible to be translated, printed, and set abroade in the vulgare tongue) may not now be affearde, that their king con­ceyueth an euill opinion of them, and thinke that they (bycause they went about by a thousande s [...]eights and deuises to hinder so Godly and necessary a worke) are in breding some monster, and that they can not a­byde the truth: especially sith the saide king is not ig­noraunt, howe grieuously they tooke it a fewe yeares past, when by his bountifull liberalitie, professours of dyuers tongues were instituted and appointed: & that he heareth not often tymes as occasions serue, what trouble & busynesse these vnlearned & witlesse doltes, put the good & the learned men vnto, which Asses whē they write or speake any thing, do cause all men to scorne, and make men lothe and also ab­horre them.