OH my most kind & an­cient friend, although I haue beene now long out of England trauailing in ma­ny Countries, and now posting home to see my Parents (as du­tie bindeth me) yet lighting in the company of Oxford men, as I came from London, I enqui­red of my old acquaintance in Oxford, by whom I vnderstood, that you remayned still a Stu­dent here, as I left you. Anci­ent affection and kindnesse con­strayned me to stay my hast, and [Page 2] abide one day with you to renue our old acquaintance.

Sir, for this your excéeding great kindnesse, I hold my selfe much bound vn­to you, and am most hartily glad to see your safe returne after so many yeares absence, and I pray you perswade your selfe, that you are a most wel­come guest to me.

I thanke you most kindly, but good Lord, how are you altered since my departure? pale, leane, thinne, and I feare as poore in purse as in body: for I vnderstand by those Oxford men, with whome I came from London, that you are not as yet preferred to any liuing.

True, I am not: but euen in the same estate, as you lest me, what that was, you knowe, very meane.

I was sorie when I heard it, but more sorie to see it, and to tell you the truth, the es­peciall motiue which caused me to come now vnto you, was to giue you better aduise, and to put you in a better course, to prouide for your selfe. For the course which hitherto you haue taken, your own experience can tell you, that it will little auaile you. You haue now studied di­uinitie many yeares in Oxford, you haue preached diuers times, as my selfe can testifie; your life and conuersation I dare boldlie affirme, is without exception; you are conformable to all true discipline; it hath cost you and your friends many pounds, since you came first: but to what pur­pose haue you taken all this paines? and bestowed all this cost? what reward haue you? I [Page 4] pray tel me, did euer any Patron offer you any liuing?

Yes trulie, I haue beene offered a liuing without sute, and also vpon sute, but I must needes say, vpon reaso­nable conditions (as the Pa­tron thought) but such, as I may not enter into with a good conscience.

Conscience? yea, this conscience is it, which marreth, al, this is it which hindreth you from all preferment. And if you will still stand vpon conscience, here may you studie vntill mosse growe to your heeles before any liuing worth the taking be freely without condition offered you, sillie Scholler! borne to pine thy bodie in studie, and waste thy goods in vaine! thinke not that men of this age are so sim­ple, as to giue that freely, which [Page 5] they may lawfully sell dearely.

Though I neuer shal haue any preferment bestow­ed on me fréely, yet will I not dispaire of Gods goodnesse in prouiding for me. Howsoe­uer, I am resolued (by y^e grace of God) neuer to vse any indi­rect meanes to bée preferred. And whereas you say y^t Pa­trons now are not so simple, as to giue that fréely, which they may lawfully sell dearely: I maruaile how they may law­fully doe that, which cannot be done without shipwracke of a good conscience.

Good conscience? tush man, thinke you that they are afraide of any bug-beares? what should they be afraid of?

Of what? euen of y^e heauie wrath of God vppon themselues,Leuit. 27.28. and their posterity. [Page 6] Doth it séeme a small thing to prophane that which is conse­crated to the setting forth of Gods honour? if any Christi­an thinke this, he is far worse than an Infidel, who otherwise stand not so much vpon hone­sty. The Romans had this law, Sacrum qui clepserit, Cicer. lib. 2. delegib. raepseritue, parricida esto. He which clip­peth, or taketh away that w^t is consecrated to holy vses, let him bée punished as a Parri­cide.Decad. 1. lib. 5. Liuie recordeth, that the Romans sent a present vnto A­pollo at Delphos; by the way, the Legates lighted vpon Pi­rates, who take the Romanes with their present intended to be giuen vnto Apollo. They carrie them home to Lyparas, where the custome was to di­uide that which by piracie they had taken: That yeare, one [Page 7] Timasitheus was chiefe Gouer­nor, who demanded of the Le­gates whence they were, and whither they intended to saile? and vnderstanding that they were messengers sent with a present consecrated vnto Apol­lo, moued with reuerence; hée dealeth with his Citizens to forgoe their bootie, because they were holy things consecrated vnto Apollo. The Citizens, though they liued by robberie, yet made conscience of things which were consecrated to holy vses were contented to forgoe their commoditie: yea, more­ouer they send with the Le­gates, men of warre to protect them vntill they came to Del­phos. These heathen men, though they erred in y^e know­ledge and true worshippe of the true God: yet their déedes [Page 8] shew their sincere affection to­ward God as farre as they knew, of whom in charitie we ought thus to thinke, that had they knowne the true God, & his right worship, they would haue béene much more zealous for his glorie. Whose sincere, though erronious, affection, shal in the day of iudgment cō ­demne the iugling and frau­dulent dealing, with sacred things, of many which know the truth, and professe y^e name of Christ.Ios. 6.19. Actes. 5.3.4.5. If Ananias and Sa­phira were so fearefully puni­shed, for retayning but a part of that which themselues, of their own priuate good, had gi­uen to holy vses; how much lesse can they hope to escape y^e punishment of God, who in­uade the Goods of the Church, consecrated to holy vses, which [Page 9] were neuer their owne?

Alas poore Scholler, I pittie thy credulous simplicity: But come, where may we sit and talke freely, I would not bee heard, and you shall promise me faithfully, that what I speake vnto you, you shall not disclose vnto any man, nor call mee in question for that which in secret for good will I shall aduise you.

Doubt you not of that, I will be secret. Come let vs goe into my studie, there no man can heare vs. I wil locke my studie doore, no man shall interrupt our talke.

Now we are in secret, I am bold to vtter my mind for your good, if you will not be ob­stinate in your fancie against all reason & continuall experience. In reason no man ought to take in hand any thing, but to some [Page 10] good end and purpose, whereby in the end hee may reape some pleasure or commoditie: now I would gladly know of you, to what end you spend your yeares in vaine speculatiōs, spend your body in continuall reading and meditation, spend continually your monie, with small hope e­uer to recouer your charges a­gaine, and in the meane space, defraud your selfe of those plea­sures which others enioy, debar your selfe of such preferments, which vsually men of meaner de­sert obtayne. That this course you take is not good, I appeale to your owne experience, who haue liued here long with a thin diet, barely apparelled, and I doubt also, somewhat in debt to. Yet now as farre from hope of mending your estate (except you alter this course) as you were [Page 11] the first day you came.

Indéede if I made pleasure or profit the principall end of all my labours and stu­dies, I must confesse, as now y^e world goeth, I take a wrong course: but being a Scholler, my principall end is to obtaine learning, and herein I study to approoue my selfe to God, in la­bouring diligently in my voca­tion, in setting forth his glory, in dooing good to all men accor­ding to mine ability, and ende­uouring to kéepe a good consci­ence in respect of my self. These things a scholler ought to aime at, & not at riches, pleasures, and preferment.

Gods glory? a good conscience? tush, are you in ear­nest, and speake seriously?

Yes trulie,

Good Lord! this it is, [Page 12] to be mued vp in a studie all the daies of a mans life, signe it is you haue little experience in the world. Had you beene abroad as I haue been, experience would haue taught you, that God, Con­science, and Religion, haue bin things inuented by the Polititi­ans of this world, to keepe men within the compasse of humane lawes, for feare of future punish­ment after this life, whom other­wise, no feare or punishment in this life only, could restraine frō breaking all lawes. The little regard they haue in obseruing the Religion which in wordes they professe, doth sufficiently shew, what account they make of it, as long as religion hinder not their profit or pleasures, they are contented to make shew of reuerence vnto it; but let reli­gion forbid them, such pleasures [Page 13] or commodities as they affect, they will make no bones to vio­late all religion. The base esti­mation they haue of those that liue religiouslie, doth bewray their inward thoughts; for albe­it in your presence they highly commend godlinesse and zeale, yet secretly behind your backes, they account them fooles, who practise it: and with many priuie nippes they deride them.

Albeit I haue not bin much abroad, so that out of experience I can say little, how men practize that in their déedes which in words they professe, yet I make no doubt but that at this time, and this age, there are more wicked mē who denie God by their déeds, whom in words they professe, then euer were since the world began. For albeit, there haue [Page 14] béene alwaies vngodly men, yet at one time they abound more then in other. The Scrip­ture foresheweth vs, that in these last daies corruption of mā ­ners should abound,2. Tim. 3.1. 2. Pet. 3.3. & 2. Pet. 2. as errour in doctrine was prophesied should come immediately after the time of the Apostles, termed the latter daies by the Apostle,1. Tim. 4.1. the truth of which prophesies the wofull experience of our forefathers can testifie: of the one, I meane the greatnesse of errour in doctrine; of the other, corruption of life and conuer­sation: we who now liue, can­not but acknowledge it to our griefe, your selfe perceiue it, & finde it true. Euen by this, y^t all things come to passe accor­ding as the word of God fore­sheweth should come to passe. I gather an vnfallible argu­ment, [Page 15] that the word of God & Religion is not any inuention of man, but that all things are disposed by the hand of God: otherwise who can foretell ma­ny yeares before, what after­wards shall come to passe. On­ly God the disposer of al things can tell vs what shall come to passe. Who therfore foreshew­eth vs what euils are to come, and when, y^t we might know, y^t there is nothing which com­meth to passe, but by his dispo­sition: as also, that being fore­warned, we might be the bet­ter armed and encouraged to withstand them, since we know that they come not by chance, but by the ordinance of God for our good, if we patiently en­dure them, and manfully with­stand them. As for the prowd disdainefulnesse of godles men, [Page 16] who estéeme those fooles, that sincerely endeauour to liue a godly life: I do not much mar­uaile at it, for in reason they cannot haue any better opini­on of them, presupposing that, which they falsely presume, y^t the whole felicitie of man is confined within the compasse of this present life: that the soule dieth with the body; that after this life, there shall be no iudgement, no heauen, no hell, no happinesse, no reward for vertue and godlinesse: no tor­ment for lewdnesse of life and vngodlinesse: that man is born by chance, and also dyeth by chance. They who thus think, cannot but estéeme those fooles (as Lactantius very well obser­ueth) who whilst they expect future ioyes after this life,Lib. 7. cap. 5. de diuino, praemio. doe let passe present pleasures and [Page 17] delights: and whilst they ex­pect happinesse not seene, doe forgoe present worldly ioyes which are séene: whilst they endeauour to auoide euils to come, they runne into present euils. This seemeth mad­nesse and foolishnesse to world­ly wise men. But notwith­standing this wrong conceite which Worldlings haue of godly men, no reason it is, that godly men should indéede be­come fooles, either to please fooles, or to séeme to be wise. If the question be well discussed, who are the wisest, whether they who enioy al the pleasures of this world without respect of diuine and humane lawes? or they who abstaine from volup­tuous liuing, and forgoe plea­sures, and commodities, in re­spect of diuine & humane laws? [Page 18] it will easilie appeare who are the wisest. Yea God himselfe hath pronounced of the wis­dome of worldly men: that it is but vaine. But of the other wisdome,Ps. 94.11. 1. Cor. 3.20. Pro. 16.16 Pro. 2.12. Iob, 28.13 God saith, that It is better than gold and siluer: that It keepeth those that haue it, from euill: & that it delighteth the soule. And Iob speaking of the excel­lencie of it, saith, that Man can­not knowe the price of it. This be­ing so, little cause haue any to be discouraged from well do­ing, because fooles take them to be fooles. Now, wheras you say that Religion is but the in­uention of certaine politick mē, to restraine men frō offending, and to kéep the simpler sort in obediēce for feare of future pu­nishments after this life, here­in you much mistake the mat­ter: for were it only a subtile [Page 19] deuice of men, and not a truth, it would soone be descried for a forgerie, and come to naught. For common experience proo­ueth (which also a great Poli­titian, Gamaliel I meane, doth not only acknowledge, but also set it downe, for a most sure grounded truth, and prooueth it by former examples) that the counsail [...] & deuise which commeth not of God, Act. 5.38. will come to naught. Now y^t there is a God which rewardeth the iust, and puni­sheth the wicked; all men, all Nations haue and do acknow­ledge. Begin at the first borne in the world, Cayne and Abell, there was then no common wealth to gouerne, so that they had no cause to dissemble a Religion.Gen. 4.3 Yet they acknow­ledge a God, and they sacrifi­ced vnto God. Come from [Page 20] these two first borne men, and goe through all Nations that euer were, and are to this day, and you shall finde that saying of a heathen man Cicero (who knew not God a right) to bée most true. That there is no Nation so barbarous, but doth acknowledge a God. For God hath reuealed himselfe vnto men many waies, sometimes by visiōs, somtimes by dreams, sometimes by his wonders, sometimes by his reuelations, and written word: But most generally to all men without exception,Rom. 2.15 By his written law in the hearts and conscien­ces of all men. By vertue of which written lawe in their hearts, al men naturally know good from bad: That the good is to be embraced, that euill is to be auoyded. That the good [Page 21] and righteous man is worthy of reward. That wicked and euill men are worthie punish­ment. That truth is to be em­braced. That errour is to bée eschewed, insomuch that no man can pretend any excuse, when he doth euill, since all men haue a naturall light, whereby they may discerne good from bad. As wée may sée amongst all heathen people, who albeit they erre in the mā ­ner of worshipping God, yet in that, euery Nation through­out the world, haue their seue­rall Ceremonies, Rites, Sacri­fices, and peculiar manner of worshipping their Gods: they shew in general, that God is to be worshipped: they erre not, In pietatis affectu, sed in religionis delectu as one saith, in y^e they make lawes, appoint punish­ments [Page 22] for euill dooers, and re­wards for those that doe well. They shew that piety, iustice, & honesty is to be embraced. Nay they shew that not only man punisheth wickednesse, but y^t there is a God, that regardeth the doings of men, as wée may sée in those Marriners which carried Ionas, [...]nas 1.5. who of all men most commonly least feare God or men; yet when God stirred vp a tempest, they being in ieopardie of their liues, each of them called vnto his God, though they knew not y^e true God, yet that they were in the hands of such a God who had power to saue them, or east thē away, they all knew; else wold they not haue praied vnto him; Nay further they acknowled­ged, that that dangerous tem­pest was raysed vp for the pun­nishment [Page 23] of some of their sins, and in that they erred not.Vers. 7. These men had not the law of Moses to instruct them, but on­ly the light of nature the effect of the law of Moses written in their hearts.Rom. 2.15 Likewise in the Actes of the Apostles, when Paul with his company suffe­red shipwrack, being cast into Melita, where the inhabitants were barbarous people,Act. 28.2. who neuer had béene instructed either by the lawe of Mo­ses, or by the Gospell, yet they shewed the lawe of Moses in effect written in their hearts, they entertayned miserable Paul and his company with great humanity & curtesie. Nay further, they shewed that cala­mitie, miserie, and punishmēts, come not vnto men, by chance, but by the ordinance of God. [Page 24] For when as they sawe a vi­per take hold on Paules hand, they make this conclusion, that Paul was a wicked man: Who although he had escaped drowning, yet God would not haue him escape vengeance. Furthermore, vnto this natural knowledge of good and euill, God hath ioyned and ingrauen in the mindes of all men, a conscience. Which as a Schoolemaster reprooueth and correcteth vs, if wée doe anie thing contrary to reason, being the light of our mindes, or omit any thing pertayning to our dutie, and also on the other side doth reward vs as it were w^t the oyle of cōfort and gladnes, insomuch, that there is none so bad, but if at any time hée hath done wel, hée féeleth in himselfe a ioy and a comfort, for that hée hath done well, and as long as [Page 25] he continueth in wel doing, his hopes are alwaies comforta­ble. But when he doth euill,Vide Iuue­nal. satir. 13. & O­uid. lib. 1 [...] Eleg. ad Brutum. in the doing he is feareful; and when we haue done and fini­shed our enterprises, then espe­cially doth our consciences tor­ment and vexe vs: so that al­beit as one saith,Seneca. Scelus licet quando (que) tutum sit, nunquam ta­men est securum: A haynous déede may be done without dā ­ger, but neuer without feare. Terrour of conscience is inci­dent vnto all men great and small, no man can be frée from it, no not the mightiest Mo­narkes that euer were. Alex­ander the great, who feared no humane punishment, when he had killed Clitus, was so for­mented with the griefe of con­science, y^e for the space of thrée dayes hee refrayned from all [Page 26] company and comfort, & wold haue pined himselfe to death,Sabellicus lib. 6. En­nead. 4. if his captiues had not forced in vpon him into his Tent, and with great importunitie per­swaded him to take comfort. Nay (which is more strange) Nero Emperour of Rome, who would acknowledge no God, nor cared for any humane law, after he had priuilie dispatched his Mother Agrippina, Tacitus. Suetonius. Z [...]philin. was al­waies tormented with feareful dreames in the night, so that oftentimes he would start out of his bed, and by day time hée séemed to heare terrible blasts of trumpets sounding in his eares: and albeit he remooued from place to place, hoping to be out of the hearing of that fearefull noise, yet whither so euer he went, it continually pursued him, so that from the [Page 27] time he caused Anicetus to dis­patch his mother, he liued in continual feare day and night, alwaies mistrusting those that liued about him, suspecting treason against his person whē no man thought him harme. This conscience God hath pla­ced in the mindes of men as a continuall watch ouer our se­cret thoughts and doings,Caluin. In­stit. li. 3. ca. 19. sect. 15 w^t draweth vs before the iudge­ment seate of God when we do amisse, and giueth testimonie against vs that we haue offen­ded and deserued punishment. This conscience planted in vs by the finger of God, is a bri­dle vnto vs, to restraine vs frō offending euen in secret and in the dark, when no man can ac­cuse vs; it putteth vs in minde that good is to be done, and e­uill is to be auoyded; that to [Page 28] doe well deserueth reward, and to doe euil deserueth blame and punishment: though no man séeth vs, it gladdeth our hearts and filleth them full of good hopes, but maketh the hearts of those that do ill, timorous, mis­trustfull, suspitious, & alwaies expecting some ill or other, since by their offences they haue de­serued it. This knowledge of good and euill, and this consci­ence is that which restrayneth men from offences, and not the deuises of Polititians. If all the Polititians in the world should bend their wits to kéep men from offending, it would be to small purpose. Were it not that God hath déepely gra­uen in the hearts of all people in the world, that euill is to be auoided, and that good is to be embraced. And this is so ge­nerall [Page 29] in all men, that neuer there was any man so absolut­ly bad, who albeit he did that which was ill, yet would set downe this as a ground, that euill was to be embraced, and good was to be eschewed: nor euer any so bad, but if he knew he had done ill, cōdemned him­self therein as worthy of blame and punishment. Religion therefore is not the inuention of Polititians (as you falsely imagine) but the worke of God in the hearts of all men. In vaine should al the Polititians in the world conspire together to deceaue men: for deceit and falshoode by the confession of all men, will soone bewray it selfe.

Well, you abstaine frō euill for feare of punishment, & you applie your selues to doe [Page 30] well for hope of rewardes: yet you who thus precisely liue to please God, as you say, are a­boue all other men contemned, wronged, & made the of-skow­ring of the world; and these things you must patiently en­dure too, or else you loose your reward. But they whome you account most wicked, liue in continuall prosperity, Psal. 73. and haue more than their heart can wish, as your owne Prophet doth con­fesse. If indeed there were a God (as you vainely suppose to your great hurt) who so highly esteemed vertue, and so greatly hated vice; then without doubt he would presently reward those who obserue his lawe and ende­uour to please him: and contra­riwise, presently punish those who contemne him, then would there be more godlinesse in the [Page 31] world, and lesse wickednesse.

I perceiue you thinke you haue spoken wisely, seing you speake this so confidently. I maruaile God tooke not your aduise in these matters. But least you shold ouer please your self in your errour, I wil make manifest vnto you your foolish surmised wisedome. Whereas you require (that God should presently reward y^e godly whē they haue done well; and pre­sently punish the vngodly as­soone as they haue done euill; supposing, that hereby would followe greater pietie and lesse vngodlinesse; this course were to take away all godlinesse and pietie. For albeit it be not al­together vnlawfull to haue re­spect of future reward for well doing, and also abstaine from doing euill for feare of punish­ment, [Page 32] God promising the one, and threatning the other, yet to make this the sole, or prin­cipall end of doing well and a­uoyding euill, is not to obey God for loue of him, whome a­boue our selues and all other things we ought to loue: but to obey God for our owne com­moditie, and to preferre our selues before God. Now if God should alwaies presently reward godlinesse, and pre­sently punish wickednesse, con­sidering the infirmity of man as now it is in his corrupt na­ture, such is his weakenesse, that he would obey God, not for the loue of God (as Sathan falsely accused Iob Iob. 1.9 10) but for his blessing sake: such mercenary loue (in truth) is no sincere loue, nor accepted of God for a ver­tue, but reiected for a vice. Se­condly, [Page 33] you are to consider, that the iustice of God is a perfect iustice, no way defectiue: which it should bee, if hee should take that course in rewarding god­linesse, and punishing vice, w^t you would prescribe him. For as the godlinesse and pietie of the good, die not with them whē they depart this life, but of­tentimes their vertues, pietie, and good works, doe more good after their departure out of this life, then in their life time, as the goodly and learned wri­tings of godly men, who liued in ancient times, doe now in­struct many in y^e way of truth, and conuert many vnto godli­nesse of life; so that albeit they are long since departed out of this world, yet they continue still in doing good, euen to the worlds end: So on the con­trary, [Page 34] wicked mē who in their life time liued lewdly, and cor­rupted others by their ill con­uersation, leaue behind them after their death the seedes of their wickednesse, whose infec­tious contagion successiuely re­maine in others, perhaps to y^e worlds end, so that impossible it is to reward the one or the o­ther according to their desert in their life time, since the effect of their doings are not finished vntill the worlds end. And this was the reason that Diues being in hell,Luke 16. desired leaue to go & admonish his brethren whom in his life time by his ill exam­ple he had corrupted: not for any loue to them, but least they continuing in their lewd life corrupted by him, his torments should be increased. Thirdly, it cannot stand with the goodnesse [Page 35] of God, presently to punish sin­ners so soone as they offend; for in God there is perfect patiēce, who giueth time and leasure to re­pentance. Rom. 2.4. Many in their youth haue béen vitiouslie giuen, who in their latter daies, become notable members of y^e Church and Common wealth, whome if God should haue cut off in their youth, wee now should haue wanted many a notable instrument of his glory. Paul at the first was a persecutor of those that professed Christes name, but afterwards, who may hee comp [...]ed with him? S Augustine in his youth, was none of the best: yet what no­table monuments hath he left behind him to the great good of all the Church. Infinite are the examples that may by brought to this purpose. Fourthly, in [Page 36] requiring that God should pre­sently reward the godly, and punish the wicked in this life, you require that which is im­possible. For vertue, pietie, & godlinesse, cannot bee prized with any earthly blessing, they are of greater value then al the gold, and siluer, and pretious stones in the world. The true loue of God & our neighbour, iustice, patience, and such like, are spirituall graces, and can­not but with spirituall bles­sings be rewarded. So on y^e contrary, the breach of Gods law, and vngodlinesse, deserue greater punishment, than man in this life is able to endure; so that the iust reward promised to godlinesse, and the due pu­nishment threatned vnto vn­godlines, cannot be performed in this life, sith the glory of the [Page 37] one excéedeth the capacitie of man liuing in this mortal life: and the extremitie of the other excéedeth the abilitie of any man liuing in this mortall bo­dy of ours. God therfore who doth al things in his iust order and due time, hath appointed their seasons, when they both shall be rewarded. Wherefore you are not to determine of these matters, but leaue them to the iudgement of God.

What tell you mee of the iudgment of God? I tell you in plaine tearmes, (vpon your former promise of secrecie) I am fully perswaded, that there is no God.

I pray you abstaine from these abhominable spée­ches.

Tush, first prooue them abhominable speeches, then [Page 38] terme them so. I am a reasona­ble creature, I will beleeue no­thing contrary to force, experi­ence, and reason.

Sence, experience, rea­son, and especially Scripture doe prooue it.

Scripture? I beleeue not one word in it. Proue it by reason, then must I needes ac­knowledge it, but I know this fansie is altogether against rea­son. Except therfore you proue this by reason, in vaine you shall heape testimonies out of the Scripture: for if I d [...]d beleeue there were a God, I would be­leeue the Scripture; & if I did be­leeue the Scripture, I must needs beleeue there is a God.

This your hateful o­pinion wold séeme very strange vnto me, but that y^e Scripture fore sheweth,2. Tim. 3. [...] that in these last [Page 39] dayes there should be many of this detestable imagination as now your experience abroad in the world doth manifest vnto you, that there are many such: but to the point. Wil you ac­knowledge without cauelling, what Sence, Experience, and Reason will prooue?

Yes, I will alwaies wil­lingly yeeld to these.

Albeit in excepting a­gainst the Scripture, you de­barre me of the greatest & chie­fest means whereby the Maie­stie of God is liuely set forth, yet to prooue there is a God, I require no more thā those prin­ciples w^t you yéeld to; Sence, Experience, & Reason. Now before I come to prooue this matter, suffer me to aske one or two questions of you. If you shold stand on a Mountaine by [Page 40] the sea side, & behold a Shippe sayling in the sea, in a great tempest amongst many dange­rous rocks, if you saw her saile directly to the harbour, skilful­ly auoyding euery rocke lying in her way, on which the vio­lence of the wind, and rage of the waues would driue her, & break her in péeces were it not, but that by winding this way, and that way, shée auoided frō them: Though you saw no mā in the shippe, would you not think that there were some mā who guided the sterne, wherby shée passed all those dangers, & came safely into the harbour?

Yes, I must needs think so, otherwise the shippe would bee carried whither so euer the wind & waues would driue her, and be ouerturned by the waues, or beaten in peeces on the rocks.

One question more, and then I will come to y^e mat­ter in question: thinke you, y^t you haue a soul in your body?

What an absurd que­stion is this. How otherwise could I talke with you? I haue all my sences; this question is questionlesse.

But yet for all this,Act. [...].38 you neuer saw your soule, nor can wel describe vnto me what a thing it is.

What if I neuer saw it, nor can descibe it: shall I there­fore, doubt whether I haue a soule or no? her operations in me, doe shew and prooue that I haue a soule. Many things bee of that nature, that they cannot be seene, G [...]. 4.3 yet are no more to bee doubted of, but that they are, than whether the things which we see with our eyes, are or no: [Page 42] as the wind we see not, yet our sence doth feele it, my voice you see not, yet you heare it; we see not sweete or ill sauours, yet our sence sheweth vs, that there are such.

Were it not but that the Scripture teacheth me, y^t God punisheth those who re­gard not to knowe him, with a strange grosnesse of vnderstan­ding in spirituall matters, and giueth them ouer to a reprobate sence, 2. Thes. 2 10.11.12. that they should not per­ceaue, that which they sée: I should much maruaile at you & the like men. Is it not strange that you can gather by conse­quent of reason, that of neces­sitie there must he a guide in y^e shippe which sayleth in the sea, because hee sayleth to the har­bour, auoyding all dangers w^c might annoy her, which dan­gers [Page 43] shée could not possiblie a­uoid, except she were guided by some hauing reason and skill how to direct and guide it. And also acknowledge that you haue a soule in your body, which, what it is, you cānot sufficiētly describe, only because it mani­festeth it selfe vnto you by her operations in you: so that no way you can doubt, but y^t you haue a soule, whose substance you neuer saw: & yet séeing the admirable order and course of all things in y^e world continu­ally guided and preserued in an order farre passing the capacity of man; doubt whether there be a God which made, guideth, and preserueth al things. Here­in you are farre worse thē hea­then mē, who albeit they were neuer instructed by the word of God, yet by the continuall and [Page 44] orderly course of the heauens, and by the seasonable fruites of the earth, all of them com­ming in their due times & sea­sons, did gather that there was a God which mooued the hea­uens in such order, and caused all things here on earth, to ob­serue their certaine course. Therefore now I must deale with you, as with a heathen man (since you except against Scripture) and by thinges séene prooue the inuisible pow­er, wisdome, and goodnesse of God: who, that all men might be without excuse, made the world: that all men séeing the infinite hugenesse, the great di­uersitie, and the orderly course of all things in it, and enioy-the commodities of all things therein, might acknowledge h [...]s infinite power, admire his [Page 45] wisdome, and with thankful­nesse laud him for his excéeding blessings. If you will yeeld to sence and reason, you must of necessitie acknowledge, that the creation of the heauens, earth, and varietie of al things contained therein cannot be ef­fected but by a diuine power far excéeding the power of all the Monarkes since the world be­ganne. If you consider the ad­mirable order of all things cre­ated in heauen & earth, wherein euery thing is placed in his dignitie, you cannot but with wonder admire the admira­ble wisedome of the disposer.

And (to enter into the parti­cular consideration of it) con­sider first the blessed Angels, who as in dignitie they come nearest God their maker: so ac­cording to their dignitie, they [Page 46] are placed in a most blessed place. Man, in dignitie next vnto thē, being a creature consi­sting of two different natures, his soule of a heauēly substāce, his body made of y^e erth: though by reason of the vnion of the soule with the body, hée liueth here on earth, yet (as Hermes termeth him) is he a diuine cre­ature, and according to his spi­rituall substance, hath his con­uersation in heauen, medita­ting on the glorious maiesty of God his chiefest felicitie, desi­ring fully to enioy his presence, who hath so far dignified him, that for his onelye sake, hee cre­ated all the world, and man for his owne glorie: to this end hath hee giuen man reason to consider of all his workes, sen­ses to behold them, & a tongue to magnifie his goodnesse for [Page 47] these his excellent blessinges: next vnto man consider the hea­uens themselues, the greatnes and compasse thereof, the num­ber of the Starres, and their varietie, their continuall and orderly motions without cea­sing or wearinesse, whose ver­tues and influences no tongue can expresse, so necessarie for all thinges liuing heere on earth; that if they should but stay their motions, and but for a small time cease to send downe their influences & vertues, al things here on earth would fade and come to naught. Infinite is the number of the starres and planets in Heauen, their ver­tues so necessarie, that if you take any of them away, his de­fect would hinder the operati­ons of the other. For proofe of this, I will instance but in two [Page 48] of them. Whose vertues are known so necessary, that with­out thē, all the rest would serue to no purpose, there is none so simple who knoweth not, nor a­ny so impudent as durst deny, that if the Sun were taken out of the number of the Planets all the rest both of starres, and planets would loose their light, and consequently their operati­ons, all trées and hearbs which grow on earth, cease bearing fruit, and quickelye come to naught. Take away the moone, besides that, the comfortable guidance which Trauilers by night haue by the benefit of her light, would bee wanting, all trées and hearbes also on the earth, would soone wither a­way through the heate of the sun, for want of her mo [...]sten­ning. Nay, suffer them to haue [Page 49] their being in heauen, only stay their motions, all things on earth would come to nothing. For the Sun wheresoeuer hée stayed, would skorch all things directly vnder him, and dry thē to powder, the Moone whereso­euer shée stayed, would putrify al things vnder her, & bring thē to rottennesse. The like may be said in particular of euery star in heauen: for if there were not a necessarie vse of euery one of them, thē would it follow, that God had made some thing in vaine: the which you know is against a ground and principle in philosophie, and therefore néedes not any farther proofe. Next vnto these, consider the decent order of the elements, which as they are in dignitie one more excellent than ano­ther, so according to their dig­nity [Page 50] are they placed one aboue another, this I knowe you are not ignorant of, being a matter agréed vpō by al Philosophers. Lastly, cōsider al things here on earth, how they in their dumbe language do set forth the glorie of God: & here first consider the sea most wonderfull to behold, and most profitable for al man­kind, wonderfull to sée how his mightie waues séeme to threa­ten the ouerflowing of all the earth: yet by the onlie appoint­ment of God, is limited his course & bounds, the which he cannot passe: but as rebuked by the shores his appointed li­mites, retourneth back to his chanels againe. Then the great commoditie thereof appeareth in the varietiy and vnspeakea­ble number of fishes in it, which as a common treasurie for all [Page 51] sorts of people, rich and poore, yealdeth fishes in varietie vn­speakeable, in number infinite, frée without money, in so plen­tifull manner, that notwith­standing all nations continual­ly night and day, take out of it vnknown store of fish, yet there remaine such plentie, that there is no signe that any haue béen taken out of it. Lastly, consider the manifold varietie of foules, beastes, plantes, and hearbes, wherewith God hath enriched the earth all for the vse of man: obserue the prouident order w^t God hath appointed in causing springes of water (without which man cannot liue) to issue out of high mountaines in the land, and channels to conueie them into the Sea, otherwise would they drowne the whole land: and herein obserue a mar­uailous [Page 52] wonder, that notwith­standing all the riuers in the world doe empt themselus in­to the Sea, and haue done so euer since the world beganne: yet at this time, is the Sea no fuller than at the beginning: to speake of all particulars which God hath created here on erth, not only for y^e vse of man, but al­so for his delight, were to vn­dertake that which no tongue can expresse or penne describe; therefore I leaue them to your particular consideration. Now if you should behold a goodlye house, curiously builded, ador­ned, and garnished with all things which may delight the beholder, with fit and conueni­ent roomes for all necessarie v­ses, with conduits of water in­to euery roome where it might néede, all things as well com­posed [Page 53] as wit and art can deuise, could you imagine that such a house were composed by chāce? reason would constraine you to confesse, that the composer and builder thereof, was indued with great skill, art, and wise­dome: how much more should you (when you behold the great fabrike of the world) confesse the great power and wisedome of God, were you not giuen o­uer into a reprobate sēco? Now to create all these things, and place them in so wonderfull or­der, doth farre passe all humain power & wisedome; but cōtinu­ally to preserue and continue al these particulars perpetually in their motions, vertues, and order, is a matter of greater wonder, all the Monarks of the world cannot create one haire. Painters may paint the world [Page 54] with all thinges in it, but they cannot giue them life and mo­tions, they can instill no vertue into thē, in this prouidēt preser­uation of God in preseruing al things in their proper and seue­ral natures, cōsider first his ge­neral prouidence ouer al things in the world; thē a more especi­all care of man aboue all things in the earth; and lastlie, his especiall care ouer his elect.

Nay, stay first, let me ex­cept against that which you haue spoke of the creation of all things for the good (as you say) of men: you haue ranged through heauē and earth, and can find nothing amisse. I pray you tell mee, is it for the good of man, that often­times thunders, lightnings, and tempests, breake forth, whereby not only houses are ouerturned, but also men and cattell are de­stroyed: [Page 55] oftentimes the sun skor­cheth the earth, and frosts so ex­treāly nip the fruits of the earth, that by such vnseasonable wea­ther, men and beasts are hunger-baned.

Before I answere this point, let me see your strange fashioned Rapier.

O sir, I perceiue you seek digressions.

Noe truely, I meane to answere your obiection.

Then loe sir, I maruaile not that you admire it so much, I think you haue not seen the like; this Rapier I bought at Bilbo in Spaine, his maker was the skilful­lest man in his art in all Spaine, by the opinion of his country­men, marke the curious inamel­ling of him, feele his lightnesse, you may run him double against the wall, and it will neuer be the [Page 56] worse, this Rapier I am perswa­ded hath not his fellowe in all England.

Indéed it is curiouslye wrought, and it should séeme the woorkeman thereof had great skill, but hee had not the skill to kéepe it from rusting: for mée thinketh, it beginneth to rust in one place.

Is that the fault of the Cutler? I hope you are not so ignorant, but that you know all yron is subiect to rust, no art be it neuer so exquisite, can preuent this; you knowe it is a generall position in Aristotle, that all mixt bodyes are subiect to cor­ruption, because they are com­posed of the elements consisting of contrary qualities.

You say right, the rust of this Sword commeth by the fault of the yron, and not of the [Page 57] maker of this Rapier. I mar­uaile that you can so easily sée whence these faultes, corrupti­ons, and euils proceed, and yet accuse God as the Authour of them: you frée the Cutler from the fault, that this rust begin­neth to eate this Rapier, you ascribe the fault to the nature of the mettal wherof it is made, and herein you say truely; whē it went out of his hand it had not this fault, and I maruaile that you cānot aswell frée God from being the Author of those euils, which before you recited, for God made all things as frée from faults, as this Cutler this Rapier; these euils procéed frō the things created, and not frō the creator.

Yea, but if God be om­nipotent and good, then had it been a part of his omnipotencie [Page 58] and goodnesse, so to haue made thinges, that there should haue been no imperfection in them; as for example, if God had made the mettall of this Rapier so perfect, that it should neuer haue gathe­red rust, and that beeing once a Rapier, it should neuer breake, nor any way decay, his omnipo­tency and goodnesse would haue been greater than now it is: what builder of a house will not make it as durable as hee can? what builder of a Citie doth not make it as stronge as hee can, that it might not bee subiect to any de­caye? How much more should God exceed in prouidencie and goodnesse to men, and make all his creatures of such perfection, that they should no way haue a­ny imperfection in them, if he be of that omnipotency as you wold make him.

Sir, you must vnderstande that particular thinges are made for the ge­nerall good of the vniuersall, and parts are made for y^e good of the whole. As for example; Man is not made for the vse of his hands, eyes, legges, or any of his members: but his hands are made for y^e vse of his whole body, his eyes to direct y^e whole body, the legges to beare the whole body: no mēber is made for the vse of it selfe only. Now if the imperfection of particu­lars in that they are subiect to corruption and decay, make more for the good of the whole, then if there were no imperfe­tion in thē: then it becommeth the maker of the whole, more to respect the good of the whole, then the particular, and make particulars subiect to corrupti­on [Page 60] for the good of y^e whole, and to persist in your owne exam­ples; doth y^e builder of an house respect particulars in y^e regard of the whole? doth he not cutte downe many a trée for the buil­ding of this house? doth he not digge out many a stone out of the earth? doth he not breake him into many péeces vntill he be fit for his building? doe not builders of a Citie the like? they will hew in péeces and breake goodly trées, and great stones for the good of building: and why shold it séeme strange to you, that God should make particulars subiect to corrupti­on for the good of the whole? Now this rapier being a par­ticular of the whole, was not made for his owne sake, but for the general vse of man. And more good ariseth out of this, [Page 61] y^t he was made subiect to rust, corruption, breaking, and mar­ring, than if it should be made (as you would haue it) eternal; & that for many manifest rea­sons. First, God who created al the world, he and all the parti­culars in the world for the vse of man, foreséeing the fall of man, and that he would dege­nerate frō that goodnes wherin he created him; in his iustice, against the disobedience of mā, prouided this as a punishment for his transgression, that hée should earne his liuing with y^e sweate of his browes. Neces­sary therefore it was, that hée should prouide somthing wher­on he should labour. Now, if God should haue made this so perfect in all respects, y^t it shold neuer take rust, or any way be subiect to decay; if our appa­rell [Page 62] were of such mettall, that it would neuer weare out; if our houses were such, y^t they wold neuer decay; if our land would neuer bring forth wéedes, but alwayes good corne of his owne accord, as you would haue all these and all other par­ticulars to be of such perfection as being once created or made, they should euer endure. Then hereby you would take away the iustice of God against the sinne, and the disobedience of man against God: who for his transgression hath appointed this labour on these particu­lars to kéepe these things in re­paration, and that by his labor herein, he might get his liuing by the sweate of his browes. Secondly, if these particulars which are made for the good of the whole, were not subiect to [Page 63] alteration, if houses, apparell, and such like, would neuer de­cay being once made, infinite inconueniences would follow thereby. For notwithstanding they do now decay, yet (y^e world béeing so full of people, which also God foresaw, and there­fore prouided for it according­ly) you sée what daylie com­plaints the poore sort of people doe make, that they are out of worke. The Carpenter, Ma­son, Taylor, and such like trades men, who are ouer char­ged with wife and childrē, how much lesse should these poore men according to the ordinance of God, gette their liuing for themselues, and their houshold, if houses once made would ne­uer decay, if apparell, and such like necessaries for the vse of man, should neuer weare out. [Page 64] So that you may sée, that these things being made for the vse of man, and not man for them; God hath made them more be­neficiall for the vse of man in making thē subiect to change, than if he had made them dura­ble for euer. Thirdly, God knowing the weakenesse and infirmitie of mans corrupt na­ture, that as water, if it stand still, it will corrupt and gather putrifaction, but if it be alway running, it continueth pure: so the minde of man, if it bée i­dle, it will bring forth corrupt fruit; but if it be busied on ho­nest labour, it is frée from cor­rupt and lewd thoughts, & frée from euill workes. Therefore God appointeth men to labour on mutable & changeable met­tal, that their labour should ne­uer be at an end, necessity con­strayning [Page 65] them thereunto, else would they be idle, and being i­dle, would waxe wicked. Thus God who first appointed labor vnto man for his transgressi­on, turneth it into a great bles­sing, that whilst men continue labouring painefully in their vocation, they are frée from occasions of sinne, & God bles­seth their labours both with tē ­porall and spirtuall blessings; temporall, as health & wealth, whereas contrariwise, they y^t are idle are neither healthy, nor wealthy. With spiritual bles­sings in this world, as with good thoughts, good conscience, and many other graces of the minde: and in the world to come, God in Christ will re­ward them, because they haue walked according to his ordi­nance, painefully in their voca­tion. [Page 66] Concerning the other part of your Obiection, that of­tentimes thunder, wind, tem­pest breake forth, and vnseaso­nable weather, to y^e great hurt of mankind: You must consi­der, that the things which God created for man, haue a double vse, a principall, and a seconda­ry vse: the principall vse of thē all, is to profit man according to their manifold and seuerall vertues giuen to them of God in their first creation.Psal. 11. The se­condary vse of them is, to bée instruments of Gods iustice a­gainst man, if he disobey his Maker, contrary to their na­tures and properties in their first institution. That as mā, who was made to obey his ma­ker, beginneth to disobey him that made him, and degenerate from his principall end where­unto [Page 67] he was created to glorifie God his Creator. So these things which were created for mans vse, should degenerate from their principall and pri­marie vse, to afflict man for his disobedience, & be instruments of Gods iustice against the sin of man. This secondary vse of these punishments euen the heathen people who knew not God,App [...]um li. 1. de ciuili bello Rom. did alwaies acknowledge as prophane histories and Po­ets doe euery where testifie. I néede not exemplyfie this vnto you out of Liuie, that the Ro­manes custome was, if any sodaine tempest arose, if light­ning and thunder, if infectious of y^e aire, or other diseases were ingendred and came to passe, straight way after their man­ner, they sought to appease the wrath of their Gods, acknow­ledging [Page 68] that these calamities proceed from the wrath of God. Likewise the Grecians they ac­knowledged these accidents to be the speciall punishment of God for the offences of men, as you may sée in Poets; when as the whole Nauie was stayed at the Ile Aulis, Agamemnon the Generall sendeth to Calcas the Priest, to know wherein the Gods were offended, and what might appease their wrath? vnderstanding the true cause of it, and that they should not appease the wrath of their Gods, except hee sacrificed his Daughter Iphiginie, he spareth not his daughter to appease their ire. When Pharao was punished with Lice, Frogges, hailestones, and his cattell and people with mortality, then he acknowledged the power of [Page 69] God, then he desired Moses y^t he would pray to God to take away those plagues from him. But as soone as the plagues were remoued, straight way his feare of God was gone. Take not exception against this testimony, out of the scrip­ture, sith prophane histories te­stifie this same. Here you sée an other great commoditie ari­seth vnto mankind by these things which you call euils; For by these extraordinarye punishments, men are mooued to fly vnto God for succor, yea euen wicked men, who other­wise in their security neuer thinke on God, but continue still in their wickednesse. Whē Ionas fled by sea from the pre­sence of God (as he thought) & God stirred vp a great tempest, then the Marriners prayed to [Page 70] their Gods, then they prayed seriously, and from thyir hearts without hipocrisie. Other­wise in prosperity, they seldom, carelessely, and for fashion or custome sake, repeate y^e words of ordinarye prayer without thought of God. Now, though these euils as you terme them are grieuous for the present time, yet considering the profit they bring vnto man, as name­ly, they cause men to flie vnto God, and séeke succor and ayde at his hande, they cause vs to pray sincerely, hartily, and ar­dently vnto God, they cause vs to enter into examination of our former life, wherein wée haue offended God, and mooued his wrath against vs, though these things seem grieuous and fearefull for the time, yet can­not they properly be termed e­uils, [Page 71] considering y^t profit which they effect in man. Pilles and potions are vnpleasant and for the time cause those that take them to be sick, yet no man will terme them euils; wée séeke to the Phisition for his aduise, & although we know that which he prescribeth wil be bitter and vnpleasant, yet we refuse them not, we acknowledg our selues beholding vnto the Phisition, who prescribes them vnto vs, and great reason we should doe so, for by phisicke though vn­pleasant, we recouer health be­ing impaired, and also preserue our bodyes least they fall into diseases, and should not we ac­knowledge our selues bound vnto God, and be gratefull vn­to him, for these gentle remem­brances, which you falsely call euils, who when we haue for­gotten [Page 72] our dutie towards him, by these vnexpected and fearfull thunders, tempests, infecti­on of the aire, strange diseases and such like, are put in minde of y^e wrath of God against our sinnes, that wee might repent & amend our liues, w^c, who so neglecteth, heapeth vp to him­selfe a heauier wrath against y^t day of iudgement, because hée regardeth not the gentle correc­tions and remembrances of the Lord. A fourth vse of these fear­full thunders, stormes, windes and tempests, infection of the aire, strange diseases, and con­suming pestilence,2. Peter. 3. verse. 3.4. is to confute such as you are, for it is prophe­sied of Saint Peter, (and veri­fied by you, and a great many else,) that in the last daies there will come mockers, which will walke after their owne lust, & say, where [Page 73] is the promise of his comming, (namely Christs comming to iudgement) for since the fathers died, all things continue alike as frō the beginning: such is the nature of the wicked that if God ex­traordinarily shew not his po­wer sometimes by punishings, but still continue his blessings, they thinke that those blessings which they enioy, come not of the goodnesse of God, but by course of nature; but whē some fearefull extraordinarye euent come to passe, they are constrai­ned to acknowledge that there is a God aboue, that which they call nature, able to do things a­boue & contrary to nature, cau­sing oftētimes scarcity of fruits when the whole yeare before hath béen seasonable, and con­trariwise great plenty & store, when it hath béene an vnseaso­nable [Page 74] yeare. Now, albeit some particular haue sustained harm either by thunder, lightnings, tempests, or such like extraor­dinarie euent: yet hath it béen for the good of the whole, that o­thers séeing y^e seueritye of God and his extraordinarie worke, with feare & reuerence might acknowledge his great power, yet no particular who haue sus­tayned losses by such euents, can iustlye complaine against such punishments, because no man euer sustained more then his sinnes deserued: vniustly therfore you cal these euents e­uils, sith soe many & great good effects are wrought by them, you may call them mala paenae, which indéed are not euils, but the execution of Gods iustice.

Yea, but you shall not thus shift me off. I will directly [Page 75] prooue there are euils in the world, properly tearmed euils, which if I doe, it followeth that there is no such God as you ima­gine, for God (as you say) is om­nipotent, and in him is the per­fection of all goodnesse: either therefore God would take away all euils in the world, and cānot; or else can, and will not; or nei­ther will, nor can take them a­way; or lastly, can and will. If hee would and cannot, then is he not omnipotent, and therfore no God: if hee can and will not, he is not as good as may be, and therefore no God. If he nether can, nor will, then is nether om­nipotent, nor most good. If he can, and will, then should there be no euils in the world; but there are euils as the sins of men, which (as you say) God hateth; if hee hateth them, why doth he suffer [Page 76] them to be? Nay, which is farre worse; why are they, who most sincerely thinke there is a God, and therefore seriouslye obserue his wil and commandements? yet of all men are most miserable in this world, most afflicted, most contemned, and vilefied, as the experience of all ages can testify: and on the contrarie, they who haue beene most wicked, haue aboue all other men liued most prosperouslye all their life long. What an excellent man was Cato, who all his life long continually labored to expel vice out of Rome, yet what a mise­rable life liued he? alwaies hated and oppugned by the cheefest men of Rome, and after his death was no way honored according to his worth, although hee had spent his whole life▪ onely in see­king to doe his common wealth [Page 77] good. What a notable man was Pompey, for his heroicall minde and noble vertues surnamed the Great, who euen of his enemies and men of other nations was acknowledged to be a man of ex­cellent vertues. Yet, especially in his latter daies, what a trouble­some life liued he? What an vn­worthie end had he? and after his death no waies graced. On the contrary, base & vitious Li­cinus, a notarious flatterer, Bar­bar to Augustus, was dearlie be­loued of the Emperour Augus­tus, graced by the Senators of Rome, all his life liued most hap­pilie, and after his death was dig­nified with a maiesticall tombe: Insomuch that Beroaldus i [...]steth at it, Marmoreo Licinus tumulo iacet, at Cato paruo.

Pompeius nullo, credimusiesse deos. Licinus a vitious base flattering [Page 78] Barber, laeth in a maiesticall tombe. Vertuous Cato lieth in a little tombe, great Pompey hath none at all: and can wee thinke there are Gods? What a noble minded Roman was Brutus, who spent his whole life in defence of the liberties of his countrey, sus­tained the hatred of all wicked Tyrants: yet at length was he o­uerthrown by Caesar, an an farre worse then himselfe, though he confidently expected the aide of his Gods hauing a good cause on his side, the defence of his countrey, but all in vaine, and beeing deceaued of his expected ayde, falleth on the point of his sword, crying out, Ista Iouem haud latent, quin (que) est horum cau­sa malorum accusing Iupiter that he sawe all his miseries, yet hel­ped him not; nay, that he was the cause of all his miseries, Con­trariwise, [Page 79] what a monster was Dionisius the tyrant, who deligh­ted in wickednesse and iested at the gods? Who, when hee had robbed the temple of Proserpina at Locris, sayling prosperouslie home to Syracusa, said to his fel­lowes, do ye not see my compa­nions, what a prosperous sayling the gods haue giuē to vs Church­robbers? and being flesht herein, afterwards sayled to Peloponesus, and came into the Temple of Iu­piter, where Iupiter was cloathed wi [...]h a cloak of cloth of gold, gy­bing at him, took off his cloake of gold saying, that it was too cold for winter, & too heauy for sum­mer, and put his owne cloake on him made of woll: saying, that that was warmer for the winter, & lighter for the sūmer, fit for all seasons of the yeare: also he took off from Esculapius his golden [Page 80] beard, saying it was not sit the sun should be bearded, since his father was alway painted with­out a beard; afterward hee tooke out all the Gold and Siluer, and vessels of the temples, and sold it in the market: whē he had recea­ued the price of it, then he made proclamatiō that whosoeuer had any vessels pertaining to the tem­ples they should within a certain day, restore them to the temples againe, because it was not lawful for to prophane that which was consecrated to holy vses. This Monster liued forty yeares pros­perously, died not vnfortunately, and left his kingdome to his Son peaceablelye, which by lewde meanes he vsurped. You know what Diogenes was wont to saye of Harpalus (a notorious theefe, and most prosperous) that hee was a great argument against the [Page 81] gods: meaning that if there were any gods, or if they had any care what was done heere on earth, they would neuer suffer such a notorious theefe to liue so long, and so prosperously. If these ex­amples bee not sufficient, reade Plutarch, of the liues of the most famous Graecians and Romanes, read, Boccace de casibus illustrium virorum, where you shall find al­waies the better man hee was, the more oppositions hee had in all his life. Now, least you should take any exception against these examples taken out of prophane histories, as you tearme them, I will prooue this also out of the scripture: in the time of Iob, great was the prosperitie of the wicked. Iob. 21. The wicked liue & wax­eth old, saith Iob & grow in welth, their seed is established in their sight, their houses are peaceable [Page 82] without feare, & the rod of the lord is vppon them, their cattell encrease and prosper, they send forth their children like sheepe, and their sons dance; they take the tabret & harpe, and reioice in the sound of the Or­gans: they say vnto God, depart frō vs, for we desire not the knowledge of thy waies: who is the almigh ie that we should serue him? or what Prophet should we haue if we should pray vnto him? Likewise in the time of Dauid, such was their prosperitie, that hee confesseth that he was greatly moued at it. My feete had almost slipt, Psalm. 73. when I saw the prosperitie of the wicked, they are lusty and stronge, they are not in trouble like other men, they are full of pride, and crueltie, their eies stand out with fatnesse, they haue more then their hart can wish, they ayre licencious, and speak wic­kedlye of their oppression, they [Page 83] talke presumptuouslye, they sette their mouth agaynst Heauen: Doth not this matter so far moue the Prophet Ieremy, Ierem. 12. that he doth expostulate the matter with God, why it should be so: saying, O Lord, if I dispute with thee con­cerning thy iudgmēts thou art iust: Yet let me talke with thee concer­ning thy iudgements. Wherefore doe the way of the wicked prosper, why are they in wealth that rebelli­ouslie transgresse? thou hast plan­ted them, and they take roote: they grow and bring forth fruit; thou art neere in their mouthes, but farre from their hearts. Doth not the Prophet Hàbakuk the like? Hab. 2.13. Wher­fore (saith he to God) doest thou behold the transgressors, and hold thy tongue, when the wicked de­uoureth the man that is more iust then himself? Were not the worst men the happiest mē in the time [Page 84] of the Prophet Malachie? Malach. 3.15. they openly professed, that it was in vaine to serue God. And they shewe (in mine opinion) a good reason for it: For say they, The wicked are blessed, euen they that worke wickednes, are set vp, & they that tempt God, are deliuered.

Now tell me, what master of a familie, hauing good and badde seruants in his familie, would frowne on the good, and speake friendly to the wicked? afflict the good, and deale roughly with them? and grace the badde, and deale friendly with them? yea suffer them to enioy their hearts desire? If a mortall man qualifi­ed with ordinary honesty, will not do this; can you think, that if there were a God who respected what is done one arth, wold suf­fer these things? Thus you see I can if need be, play the Diuine.

But to the dishonour of God, the Diuell, by whose spirit you speake, taught you this: who also vsed the scrip­ture, but to a badde purpose. Spiders euen of the best & swée­test flowers get matter, good in it selfe, but being infected by their ill breath, is turned into poyson: so such as you are, ga­ther out of good flowers y^e word of God, good matter, but by the infection of your ill spirits, you turne it to worse then poyson. But to let this passe, you in­stance by many examples, that there are many evils amongst men, and hereon you thus con­clude: Either God would take away all these euils out of the world, and cannot; or else can, and will not; or neither can, nor will; or can, and will. If he would & cannot, he is weak, [Page 86] and therefore no God. If hée can, and will not, hee is enui­ous, which cannot be in God. If [...]e neither can, nor will, hée is both weake and enuious. But weaknes nor enuy cannot be in God, if there be any; for if there be a God, he must néedes be omnipotent and most good, or else no God. If he can & wil, how commeth it to passe that ther are so many euils amongst men? First I grant that there are euils, and properly, euils the sinnes of men, which God could take away, and therefore no weakenesse in him: but he doth not, not of enuie towards mankind, but for his greater good: and this is the reason why there are so many euils amongst men. For in y^t there are euils, both y^e glory of God, and the good of men, is made [Page 87] more manifest: so that it nei­ther standeth with the glory or goodnesse of God, to take them away, but to suffer them to bée. Now, to make this manifest vnto you, giue mee leaue to prooue, first that God is not y^e author of euils: secōdly to shew whence they spring. For the first point, that God is not the Author of these euils; God, who is goodnesse it selfe, whose pro­pertie is to communicate his goodnesse to others, made the whole world that his creatures might participate of his good­nesse. Vnto the perfection whereof, it was behoouefull y^t there should be diuers degrées of different natures. He hath made foure degrées of things y^e are in the world. The lowest degrée whereof, hath only his being without life, without [Page 88] sence or motion, without rea­son: and of this kinde are the foure Elements, Fire, Aire, Water, and the Earth. Of the second degrée, [...]re those things which beside their being haue life; as trées, flowers of the field, which somtimes grow and increase, sometimes die. A third kind are they which be­sides their being, and life, haue also sence, motion, able to moue from place to place, as beasts, foules, fish. The fourth and highest degrée haue besids these things before mentioned, rea­son, and wisdome: and in this degrée of creatures, are onelye men & Angels. In these foure degrées are comprehended al y^e creatures that God hath made, and all these were created good. Now, euils haue no place a­mong the things created, nei­ther [Page 89] can it, because it hath no essence or being in it selfe, but is a defect of that good which should be in things created, by the default of the creature, and not of the Creator. As blind­nesse is a defect of the eyes, sick­nesse an indisposition and dis­proportion of the foure Ele­ments with their qualities w^t should be in the body, whereby the members of the body are not able fréely to execute their functions. Yet because euils serue for the greater commen­dations of those things that are good; and things good, do more apparantly shew their goodnes by comparing them with euils, as sicknesse once tryed, maketh health to be more gratefull vn­to vs; meates are then most swéete vnto vs, when wée haue béene long hungrie; the light [Page 90] more pleasant vnto vs, & better welcome after much darkenes, heauie, and gloomie wea­ther. Therefore although God doth not cause them, yet he hin­dreth them not, but suffereth them to haue a kinde of depen­dancie on his creatures, for the greater good of the vniuersall: yet thus far he hindreth euils to be; that they breake not out, but when, and where he list: else would the malice of y^e Di­uell and wicked men quicklie bring all things to naught: hée gouerneth, and guideth them for his owne glory, and good of his owne elect: for he would no way suffer them to be, except he vsed them to good purpose; for the punishment of the wicked to shew his iustice, and for the furtherance and behalfe of his elect. This being shewen, y^e [Page 91] God is not the author of them, and that they haue no béeing a­mongst all the workes of God, but are blemishes and defects of things created; it now follow­eth to shewe you the first origi­nall cause from whence they came, which was the frée will of man wilfully disobeying his creator, who had this excellēt gift bestowed on him, that hée had an ability, frée wil, & pow­er either to obey his maker; or if he would, disobey him: in o­beying his maker consisted his felicitie; in disobeying, his mi­sery and woe. All the sinnes in the world (which only can pro­perly be called euill, excepting the disobedience of the Diuell) procéede from the frée will of man. There is no cruelty, no adultery, oppression, hatred, malice, or in a word, no sinne, [Page 92] but procéedeth from the frée wil of man. But you say, why doth God suffer cruelty, oppression, and wrong, as that heroicall Brutus, or sincere Cato should bee continually oppugned all their life long? And why doth God suffer Dionisius and Har­palus, and such mōsters to liue so prosperouslie? To the first I answere, that if God should haue suffered no oppressor of his common wealth to haue li­ued in Brutus his time, how should Brutus haue shewed his vertues, in withstanding Ty­rāts? if there had liued no wick­ed and lewd person in Catoes time, Cato could not haue bin so vertuous. Who so wil take away al wickednesse, by conse­quent taketh away vertue; for vertue consisteth in rooting out vice: where there is no wrong [Page 93] done, there can be no patience shewed; where there is no re­sistance, there can be no victo­ry; and where there is no victo­ry, no crowne. Againe, God suffereth wicked Dionisius, Har­palus, and such like, to liue here on earth happily, that in y^e day of iudgement they might bée without excuse;Rom. 1.18 Psal. 17.14 and this is their portion of ioyes which euer they shall haue: so that we néede not enuie their short felicitie, consi­dering the euerlasting paines they are to endure. And albeit such be their monstrous beha­hauiour, that they deserue not the happinesse of one day, yet such is the excéeding goodnes of God, that he will haue euen y^e worst of his creatures to haue a taste of his goodnesse; euen Sathan and all the wicked spi­rits of hell had a taste of Gods [Page 94] goodnesse before they fell from the good estate wherein God created them. There is no wicked man so absolutely bad, but that at some time or other, hath at the least some shew or shadowe of some vertue or o­ther: now such is the loue of God vnto vertues, that he will blesse with temporall blessings euen the shadowes of vertue. Againe, he suffereth such wic­ked monsters to liue, for y^e good of his elect; that they séeing the deformitie of vice in thē, might be moued the more seriouslie to detestation of vice, and to a more ardent loue of vertue. Furthermore, he suffereth such wicked creatures to liue, for y^e exercise of the good: to manifest their hearts, whether they will oppose thēselues against vice, or be drawne away vnto vn­godlines [Page 95] by their entisements. Lastly, he suffereth such mon­sters to liue, to manifest the hearts of his elect. For to trie their hearts whether they loue him sincerely, or no. For a true natural sonne cannot sée his fa­ther dishonoured, but hee will be moued at it, and oppose him selfe against those that disho­nour him; and no true elect of God can endure to sée God dis­honoured by wicked men, but he will bend himselfe against them. The Lord himselfe saith, that he will send false Prophets amongst you, to trie your hearts, Deut. 13.3 whether ye loue him, or no. Whe­ther wee will sticke vnto his word, or be carried away by y^e false perswasion of wicked se­ducers, or lewd liuers. To this end God stirred vp many ene­mies against the childrē of Is­raell [Page 96] euen to trie their hearts, whether they would trust in y^e helpe of God, or seeke indirect meanes to bring thēselues out of troubles.Deut. 15.11. To this end God (who could haue made, that no man should haue néeded y^e help of other men) sendeth the poore amongst vs, commanding vs to relieue thē, to trie our harts whether we more regard our wealth, then his commande­ment.Ps. 129.2. For albeit God knoweth all the thoughts of mens harts long before they are, yet because hee hath appointed a generall day of iudgement wherein he will iudge euery man according to his workes, Ier. 17.10 he will stirre vp such oc­casions vnto all men, whereby by their workes they shall ma­nifest what is in their hearts, that he may reward euery man according to his workes. Now, [Page 97] whereas you say that he is an ill master of a familie, who ha­uing good and bad seruants in his house, will grace & doe good vnto the bad, and deale hardly with the good, and frowne on them: your Comparison hold­eth not, because the dutie of mā is prescribed vnto him what he ought to doe; reason, the lawes both humane and diuine, doe bind vs to doe good, especially to those that doe well, and pu­nish those that doe ill: and who so doth not this offendeth. But you must consider, that God is aboue all lawe. If hée of his bountie will bestow his bles­sings on the wicked who de­serue them not, if he cause the sunne to rise as well on the wicked as the iust, he offendeth not: may he not doe with his owne what séemeth best vnto [Page 98] himselfe? he may shew mercy to whome hee will without breach of lawe or iustice. A­gaine, if he lay afflictions on y^e good, their sinnes deserue more punishment, then euer any suf­fered affliction here on earth. What if he send trouble on thē to trie whether they will mur­mur against him, or with pati­ence indure those things which they know commeth on them by the appointment of God? is hee therefore vniust, who by these meanes maketh their pa­tience & other vertues to shine more gloriouslie?

In this your answere, to free God from being the Au­thor of sinne, which is only and properly euill, you lay the fault on the free will of man, who wil­lingly doth disobey the wil of his Maker. But I take this for no [Page 99] answere: for if God who (as you affirme) foreseeth all things, and is omnipotent, and able to pre­uent all euils to come. Why did he giue man free will the which he knewe he would abuse to his dishonour, and his owne hurt? Why did hee not make him so firme, that he should not haue beene able to sinne?

As wel might you find fault that God made man, as that he gaue him fréewil: frée­will and reason are the greatest gifts vnder the sunne; wher­by only man excelleth all other creatures; whereby he is made able to doe those things which are acceptable to his maker. If you take away fréewill, so that man shold not be able to trans­gresse the law of his Maker; Wherin should he be any whit better then fire, which natu­rally [Page 110] burneth and can doe no o­ther?Zanch. lib. 5 cap. 1. Thes. 2. de natu­ra Dei. Muscul. in locis com. tract. de li. arb. Pet. Mart. in loc. com. tract. de lib. arb. sect. 23 or from the sunne, which naturally shineth, and can doe no other? take away free will, and you take away al vertues. The excellency of frée will con­sisteth in embracing vertues, and eschewing, and resisting e­uils. Take away frée wil from man, and you take out of man the image of God. For as God cannot be constrayned; so nei­ther the frée will of man, no creature hath power to cōstrain it. Take away frée will from man, and you take away the meanes of attayning to y^e ioyes of heauen: no man can trulie beléeue, nor vertuouslie liue but by frée will.Ioh. 8.36. God hath giuen man frée will to dignifie him; for by the meanes of frée will, man in some sort abtayneth e­uerlasting blisse. For albeit no [Page 101] man is able to doe any good work without the special grace of God,Aug. lib. 50 homil. 14. Tom. 10. lib. de grat. & lib. arb. c. 17. to. 7. tom. 10. de verb. Apost. serm. 13. Bed. in Ep. ad Rom. [...].3. in fin. cap. yet man is not herein méerely passiue; as a sword w^t then only cutteth, when man striketh with him, but is no a­gent or doer of himselfe: but when the will of man is per­swaded by the operatiō of y^e ho­ly Ghost to work those things which please God, he doth it willingly, and vseth his natu­rall faculties,Bar. m. 2.2. Tho. Aqui. quaest. 10. art. 1. & se [...]uent. Perkins in his refor­med Ca­tholike, in the point of free wil. for the perfor­mance of it, he laboureth & ta­keth paines in it, although the holy Ghost be the principal and efficient cause of euery good worke, without whome no mā can worke any good worke, yet is it Remota causa, a remote cause, from which, actions v­sually take not their name and denomination. But com­monly à proxima causa from the [Page 102] néerest cause of any effect. The Sunne cannot giue light ex­cept God continue him in his naturall vertue:Vide Keker man. lib. 1. de causis subordinat. syat. logicae. sol. 144. the fire cannot giue heate except God giue and continue in it his vertue so to doe. God is the primary cause of these vertues, yet wee say not, (when the Sunne shi­neth, or the fire heateth) that God giueth light, or God hea­teth. But the sunne giueth light, and the Fire heateth; so man by frée will beléeueth in Christ, and by a godly conuer­sation endeauoureth to make his election sure, but by y^e wor­king also of the holy Ghost.

Well. I grant that free will is an excellent quality in man: but why did God giue A­dam a lawe which he knewe hee would not keepe, but through his free will breake it? had it [Page 103] not beene for this law, all things had beene well.

Why, doe you think it reason, that when God had bestowed on man free will, whereby hee had power either to honour his Maker, or disho­nour him at his will; That A­dam should be left free without punishment, if he would (ha­uing power to doe it) bee vn­gratefull to God, or dishonour his Maker? Is it ill to be bound to doe well hauing power ab­solute to performe it, as Adam had? Doe Princes ill, who make good laws for their com­mon wealth, which they know will somtimes be broken? The lawes which Princes make for the good of their common wealth, are very many in num­ber. Some very hard to bée obserued: the weaknesse and [Page 104] frailety of men since the fall of Adam is now very great: yet you cannot iustlie finde fault with Princes, for making ma­ny good lawes, (without which a common wealth cānot stand) though they knowe they will be broken: much lesse can you iustly find fault with God, who gaue but one lawe to Adam, & such a law as was very easie to be obserued: neither was he hindred with any frailty as we are, but was endued with ex­cellent graces wherof we haue not as yet tasted. Besides this, as God foresaw the fall of A­dam, so did hee prouide in his mercy, and not for any desert of man, a remedy for it, euen his only begotten sonne Iesus Christ for a redemption for our sinne, that we by repentance & faith in Iesus Christ, might [Page 105] attaine remission for our sins. Neither would God haue suf­fered Adam to haue fallen, but that by the consequent thereof, he intended of his goodnesse to turne it to the greater good of almankind. Had not Adā fallē, many excellent vertues which now appeare in man, could not haue bin, they could haue had no place or vse in the state of innocency, fortitude & courage, patience, loue of our enemies, cōpassion, continēcy & such like, are excellent vertues. All these haue no place in y^e state of inno­cencie. How can fortitude & courage be shewen, wher there is no resistance? Now, the chil­dren of God shewe their cou­rage in resisting y^e il practises of wicked men, & resisting temp­tations. How can patience bee shewed where there is no wrōg [Page 106] done? now the elect of God suf­fer patiently many oppressions, yea they pray for their oppres­sors, that God would giue thē repentance, they patiently en­dure hunger and thirst, pouer­ty, sicknesse, and such like. How can the excellencie of loue and charitie be shewen, if wée had no enmies, whose wrongs and iniuries through charitie we pardon and forgiue? How could pittie and compassion be shewed, if there were none in misery, or néeded our help? how could abstinence be shewed, if there were no alluring baites in the world; or our vnbridled lusts did not tempt vs to doe that which we should not doe? Reason it was, that Adā shold haue some matter wherein hée should shew his obedience to his Maker, and acknowledge [Page 107] Gods soueraintie ouer him, w^t could not hee, except hee were bound to some dutie or other. Againe, had not Adam fallen, where could Gods iustice in iustlie punishing wickednesse, appeare? his mercy could haue had no matter wherin it might appeare, as now it doth, in par­doning offendors, in deliuering the afflicted out of misery. How should the greatnesse of Gods loue towards men be knowen, who spared not his only belo­ued Sonne to redéeme man being fallen, for whose sake, we shall obtaine not an earthly paradise, but the euerlasting kingdome of heauen, farre ex­céeding the happinesse of Para­dise? In these, and the like re­spects, the Fathers terme the fall of Adam a happie fall; not that Adam did well in disobey­ing [Page 108] God. But for the euent, because God of his mercy hath turned this fall and disobedi­ence to mans greater good, ma­king sinne which in it selfe is bad, to serue for y^e greater set­ting forth of his owne glory, and the good of man. As a cun­ning Painter vseth black cou­lors being the worst and vn­pleasantest coulors in them­selues, in the fairest pictures, the more to set out the pleasant­nesse of other coulors; & more beautifull doth y^t picture séeme, wherein there are degrées and diuersities of coulors one bet­ter then another, then any pic­ture made onely of the purest white: so y^t you sée, that without reason you blame God for gi­uing Adā a law w^t he knew he would break; & in not hindring him to fal, though he could haue [Page 109] hindred him. Adam only iust­ly is to be blamed, who wilful­ly offended. God made Adam of that excellencie, that besides the great felicity he gaue him, gaue him also abilitie, y^t with­out difficulty, hee might haue continued therein. God now permitteth sinnes which hée could hinder; yet hée doth not hinder them, not for y^t he liketh or alloweth of them, but for the greater good of his elect. For when as any of his elect are o­uertaken with sinne, their fall doth make them knowe their owne weakenesse, & how fraile they are of themselues without the speciall assistance of God: if God shold not somtimes with­hold his assisting grace frō his elect, and leaue them to their owne strength, but continual­ly vphold them from falling, [Page 110] they would waxe prowd, and ascribe that vnto themselues, which procéedeth from the spe­ciall assistance of God, thin­king that in that they persisted in integrity, it were by their owne proper power, and not by the speciall grace of God. Wherefore Augustine saith, I dare confidently affirme, that it is good for the elect of God, sometimes to fall, that thereby they may be humbled, and that they might acknowledge their owne weakenesse, and séeke vnto God by hartie prayer, for his especiall assistance. Besides this, they who haue beene ouer­taken with sinne, by knowing the frailty of man, are more prone to haue compassion on y^e like infirmities in their bre­thren.Virg. Haud ignara mali, mise­ris succurrere disco, saith Dido. [Page 111] They that haue felt the smart of griefe, are more easilie moo­ued to haue compassion on such as are in griefe and misery, thē they that neuer felt any. A­gaine, by falling now and then, and feeling the torments of a guilty cōscience, they are made more carefull & héedefull, how they afterward walke; & they make more ardent prayers vn­to God, for his assistance, then before they did: thus you see, that the name of God is to bée praysed, who gaue so notable a gift vnto man as frée wil, and that it standeth with great rea­son, that Adam should bée by some lawe bound to honour his Maker, though God knew y^t he would not obserue it, & that the fall of Adam though he was faulty only therein, hauing full power and abilitie not to haue fallen [Page 112] yet by the grace and goodnes of God, it is turned to be a hap­pie fall; because thereby, both the iustice of God, and his mer­cie do most gloriouslie appeare, and also many excellēt vertues by sonsequent thereof, doe now appeare in man, which in the state of innocencie, could haue no place. God did well there­fore in not hindring Adam to doe that which by his frée will he would doe: but Adam did ill in eating the forbidden fruit, hauing full power to forbeare it, and bound by the lawe of his Creator to the contrary.

Well, saye all that you haue spoken bee true, yet your assertion of the especiall proui­dence of God ouer his elect, con­cerning his speciall care ouer thē, is so palpably false, that the histo­ries of all ages, the experience of [Page 113] all men do conuince you most e­uidently, and because you shall not denye this, I will first prooue it out of the Scriptures, then out of other histories: you cannot de­nie but that Iacob was an elect of God, how was he driuen for feare of his life, to forsake his na­turall countrey, and his parents, to liue in seruitude vnder an vn­iust master: & after many yeres of seruitude being not able any lon­ger to ēdure it, was fain to entreat his wicked brother Esaw a repro­bate, as you hold him to bee, and liue at his deuotion. Contrariwise Esaw a wicked person liued at home, at ease, and pleasure, ne­uer knew what seruitude & hard­nesse meant; is this the especiall care ouer his elect? you cannot deny but that Ioseph was an elect of God. Was not he euen in his childhood hated of his own wic­ked [Page 114] brother, some of them ment to take his life from him, all of them agreed to sell him to stran­gers of farre countreys, neuer to be hard of againe, being carried away as a bondslaue. How was he wronged by false accusation, imprisoned as a malefactor, though he was none; his brethrē in the meane time who did him this wronge, liued at ease and pleasure? How doth the especiall care of God here appeare? Dauid was an elect you cannot denie, a man according to Gods owne hart, how was he hunted from place to place, constrained to flee to his enemies, and there fayne himselfe madde to saue his life, constrayned to liue in wildernes­ses, in holes and caues, and yet there not secure? but as a Foxe still pursued, hated, and re­uiled of the wicked. But what [Page 115] neede I giue instance in particu­lars? Doe not your Apostle rec­kon vp the misery of Christians? in generall? that they were scor­ned, whipped, put in bands, Hebr. 11. and imprisoned, some stoned to death, some cut a sunder, some wādred in wildernesses in sheep-skinnes, and goate-skinnes, for feare of persecutions, destitute of necessaries, oppressed, and euill entreated; hiding themselues in caues, and dennes. Now, if you reade prophane Histories as you terme them, how full are they of the miseries of Christians? what eager enemies of the Christians were the ten Persecutors before Constantine the great? what vn­heard of torments were inuen­ted, only to torment the Christi­ans? how doth the Emperour Iulian insult ouer them? who gaue leaue to all men to vse thē [Page 116] as bad as they list. And when any Christians made complaint of any wrong done vnto them, he would turne thē away with this answere, You are not to mislike the wrongs which are done vnto you; for happie are yee, when men reuile you, & per­secute you: if one strike you on the one cheeke, you must turne the other: scornes, gybes, and floutes, were all the comfort and remedy they could get. Nay, now amongst Christians who are more scorned, derided, vexed; who suffer greater wants; who oftener troubled with diseases and infirmities of the body, then the sincerest men. Strange it is, how you with a bare conceit of an especiall care of God ouer the best men, are carried against the common experience of all for­mer ages, by the testimonies of [Page 117] all recordes diuine & prophane, against your owne expetience which shew the cōtrary, & cānot be brought out of your errour. If to be tormented, hated, reui­led, persecuted, pinched with penurie, troubled with many dis­eases, and weakenesse aboue o­ther men, be to be in the especial fauour of God, and to be vnder his speciall protection: let mee be but of his especiall fauour; for most manifest it is, that the estate of the Godly, is worse then the vngodly.

Strange it is to sée your grosnesse, who so speake, as if our soules died with our bodies, as if there were no iudgement to come; as if here­after neither the iust should be rewarded, nor y^e wicked suffer punishment: but that you may vnderstand the grosnes of your [Page 118] errour, in imagining that in y^e God sendeth tribulation on his elect, it procéedeth of the want of care ouer them, supposing that farre better is the estate of y^e vngodly, then y^e godly in this world, iudging by the outward appearance, and not according to truth For albeit the godly in this world are hated, despised, persecuted, and aff [...]icted of the vngodly, yet euen in this world (notwithstanding these euills which commonly happen vnto them) if comparison be made of the miseries of the vngodly and godly, you shall finde manifest­ly, (if you examine them dulye) that far greater are y^e miseries euen in this life of the vngodly, then are the miseries the godly, for the goly euen in the middest of their miseries, are full of ioy and hope: but the vngdoly are [Page 119] vexed continually with the sur­fet of their pleasures: And as the godly seriously and without hipocrisie, doe endeuour with their whole hart to please God: so their sincere conscience conti­nually giueth them an assured hope of the loue God in Christ, & maketh thē confident, so that neither tribulatiō, nor anguish, nor persecution, nor famine, nor nakednesse, nor perill, nor sword, nor life, nor death, nor Angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor thinges to come, can seperate them from the loue of God. They are assured, that as long as they continue in the true fear & worship of God, they are vn­der y^e especiall protection of god, that no creatue can harme thē, they know that all things, euen afflictions make for their good: [Page 120] this their assured hope, is not a vaine confidence: but is so cer­taine, and true, and confirmed by continuall experience, that the wicked and heathen people do acknowledge it to bée true.Num. 23.8.20.21. Wicked Balaam, who was most willing to haue cursed the people of Israell, confessed vn­to Balack that hée had no po­wer against them, because they continued in the feare of God, and therefore aduised Balack (if he would preuaile against thē) to cause them to sin,Num. 31.16. then should he preuaile against them This did the wife of Haman and his wise counsellors being heathen people, acknowledge that if Mordecay were of the séede of the Iewes,Ester. 6.13 that hee could not preuaile against him, acknow­ledging gods speciall protecti­on ouer the Iewes, who relied [Page 121] on no humain force or defence, but trusted only in the protecti­on of God. This did Rahab a heathen, acknowledge that no people was able to withstand the Iewes, because the God of heauen gaue them victorie a­gainst their enemies,Iosua. 2. so that all the nations round about them, were in feare of them. This did Achior a heathen ac­knowledge being taught by ex­amples of former ages, that as long as the Iewes the people of God, continued in the feare of God, no people was able to preuaile against them, & there­fore aduiseth Holophernes, first to enquire and search out, whe­ther the Iewes had forsaken y^e lawe of their God or no, before hee went against them? if they had, then might hee set vppon them safely, for then their God [Page 122] would giue them ouer in to his handes,Iudeth. 5. and he should preuaile against them; but if they had not forsaken the lawe of their God, hee aduiseth him to passe by them, and not meddle with them, least their God should de­fend them, and then hee should be put to shame and confusion: but proud Holophernes contē ­ned his aduise, and God defen­ded them, because they had not forsaken his law; so that accor­ding to the woords of Achior, hee was confounded. This point Achior prooued by many former examples to be true, vn­to Holophernes; And Rahab also vnto the spies which came into Caanan: All which euents came not to passe by chaunce, but by the ordinance of God, who be­fore these things came to passe foreshewed the people of Israell, [Page 123] that if they continued in his feare, and obserued his lawes,Deu. 11.25 hée would put a feare into the harts of all the nations round about them: So that, no na­tion shold be able to withstand them, which according to his promise alwayes fell out so true, that their enemies were driuen to confesse the good­nesse of God towardes them. Now, albeit God doth so pro­tect his elect, that no Nation, or any enemies shall preuaile a­gainst them; yet doth he not in this world set them frée from all aduersities, but layeth many troubles on them, not because he delighteth to sée thē in trou­ble, but because the nature of vertue (in which he would haue them to excell) is such, that it cannot be shewen, but in cou­ragiouslie and patiently endu­ring [Page 124] and resisting euils, as al­so, because such is the corrupt nature of man, that if he should continually be blessed here on earth with temporall blessings, hee would degenerat from all vertue and goodnesse. Which point heathen people by the light only of nature and daylie experience haue alwaies ac­knowledged this to bee true: and therefore held this for a true ground, that aduersitie was the occasion of al vertues. Whē Cleomenes therfore was demanded,Plutarch. why the Lacedemo­nians did not vtterly destroy y^e Argiues who often rebelled a­gainst them, since it was in their power to haue destroyed thē oftentimes, made this an­swer, that we might haue some to exercise our youthes, signi­fying, that the vertue of their [Page 125] Citie could not stand without an enemie: so likewise when the Romanes had the Carthagi­nians at that aduantage, that it was in their power vtterly to destroy it, great debating there was in the Senate, whe­ther it were conuenient it shold be destroyed. The wiser sort held it was conuenient for their common wealth, to haue ene­mies; else experience shewed them, that they wolud contend one against another with vi­ces: but notwithstanniding it was decréed, y^e Carthage should vtterly be destroyed.Aug. li. 1. de ciuit. Dei. Which being destroied, they hauing no enemies, they fell at strife a­mongst themselues, which was the ruine of their state. And Li­uie reporteth of the souldiers of Hannibal, who were such, that as I thinke, neuer were better [Page 126] before them, nor since: yet these so valiant souldiers, lying in garrison but one winter at ease in Capua, where there were great store of victuals, he saith of them, that they came into Capua more valiant then men; but went forthmore effeminate then women. And Eusebius speaking of the great persecu­tions wherein many Christi­ans perished by cruelty of the persecuting Emperours: but at length God gaue them an Emperour, who fauoured them so, that for a little space, they enioyed prosperitie. But, saith he, in this little time of prospe­ty, more Christians perished by the vices of prosperity, then by the cruelty of the persecu­tors. Sith therefore such is y^e nature of vertue, that it cannot be vertue, without opposition, [Page 127] and such is the nature of men, that they will soone be corrup­ted with worldly pleasure. God hath so ordayned, that his elect through many tribulations (shew therein their vertues and graces which otherwise would be obscure and lay hid) should enter into the kingdom of God. This being the ordinance of God, his elect knowing this his wil and ordinance for their good, do willingly embrace thē as tokens of his good will, and with ioy endure all tribulati­ons, which it pleaseth God to lay upon, they know he is good and louing to those that serue and trust in him, and that hée watcheth ouer them to do them good, they know that the sonne of violence shall not bee able to touch them without his speciall permission, who neuer permit­teth [Page 128] him, but when it maketh for their good; they haue not their eyes fixed on Tyrants y^t wrong them, but on God who vseth them as his instruments for their good, though for their paine and griefe. This caused Dauid when he was reuiled by Simei, 2. Sam. 16.10. with patience to let him goe vnreuenged, acknowledg­ing, that God caused him to re­uile him, that he might be hum­bled and brought to repentance for his former sins. This cau­sed the Apostles when they were beaten for preaching of Christ, to goe away reioycing, because they were thought worthy to suffer for the name of Christ. Act. 5.41. Heb. 11.24.25.26. This caused Moses to refuse to be cal­led the sonne of Pharaoes daugh­ter, & to chuse rather to suffer ad­uersitie with the people of God, then to enioy the pleasures of sinne [Page 129] for a season, esteeming the rebuke of Christ, greater riches, then all the treasures of Egipt. No tri­bulation or persecutiō can dant the hearts of the elect: they are afraide of no euill tydings, but are confident and bold, be­cause God is their protection. The spirit of God raigneth in them, who causeth in thē con­tinually ioy and peace: though all the world should bend them­selues against them, the peace of conscience which they enioy causeth them to bee afraide of no euil tidings, but their hearts stand fast and beléeue in the Lord, mistrustfull feare hath no power ouer them. Cleane contrary is it in the wicked,Eph. 2.2. 2. Tim. 2.26. in whome Sathan raigneth, and lea­deth them after his owne will. Though they haue all worldly felicitie at will, yet doe they not [Page 130] enioy them: but their wealth, honours, dignities, and plea­sures be vnto them, as are the pleasant apples, & pleasant ri­uer to Tantalus, the more to augment their hunger & thirst: they are neuer contented with them, nor satisfied. Yea, Sa­than stirreth vp in them vehe­ment affections which neuer suffereth them to be at rest, and tormenteth them with their owne lusts and desires. This, both histories prophane and di­uine,Plutar. in the life of Pirrus. and daylie experience doe proue vnto vs. Plutarch re­porteth of Pirrus King of Epire, that his kingdome séemed farre too little for his desires, and therefore he could not be quiet, but must séeke meanes to en­large it, though with the dan­ger of his owne estate Which ambitious humor, Cineas an [Page 131] excellent Orator and his chiefe Counseller perceiuing, endea­uoured to alter his determina­tion, and finding him alone, de­mandeth of him, why he would séeke to conquere Italie (for that he knew was his first resoluti­tion) sith alreadie he had suffi­cient. O saith he, it would be a great enlargement for my do­minions, if I had Italie, then it were but a little cut ouer to Si­cilie. That being gotted (saith Cineas) wil you then be contē ­ted? O saith he, if we had these, it were easie to obtaine Car­thage. But what if you had Carthage to? what would you doe then? Why then (said hée smiling) we would liue at ease, we would eate and drink, feast, and be merrie with our frends. But (saith Cineas) if that be al the cause, you will enterprise [Page 132] these matters which cannot be obtained without great wrong and hurt vnto others, and losse of your own subiects. Why do you not now take your plesure & ease, and feast, and be merrie with your friends? This you may do now, nothing hindreth you. Although Pirrus could giue no reasonable replye to this, yet is he so far from yéel­ding to reason, that he was dis­pleased with Cineas, because he discouered his folly, hauing no intent to bee altered from his purpose, though most vnreaso­ble; but afterward, procéeding in his purpose, and hauing got­ten some part of Italie, & some part of Cicilie, at length, with griefe and reproch lost all a­gaine. Ahab a King, who wā ­ted nothing but a contented minde; sée his troubled passi­ons, [Page 133] though he had a great deal more then sufficient, yet is not quiet, he must haue Nabothes vineyard, which might not law fully bée had: and being deny­ed his vnlawfull desire, what ioy taketh hee of all his king­dome besides? because hee can­not haue this one vineyard, hée returneth home heauie and in dis­pleasure, he falleth sicke for griefe, 1. King. 21 4. and casteth himselfe vpon his bed, refuseth comfort, refuseth meate. He neuer could be in quiet, vn­till by most vnlawfull meanes, periury, and murther, he ob­tayned his desire; and hauing obtayned his desire, what en­sued, but repentance and griefe of minde, and vtter destructi­on to him and his wicked po­sterity: who séemeth to bee in greater prosperity then ambiti­ous Haman, who bosted of his [Page 134] owne honour wherein he was with his King and Quéene a­boue al the Nobles of y^e realme, boasteth of his great riches & promotion; but yet confesseth withal, that he tooke no delight in all these,Ester. 5.13 because Mordecay the Iewe did not rise vp & re­uerence him. Sée what a lit­tle trifle can marre al the mirth of the wicked, vnto whome God giueth not the gift to enioy that which they haue. Eccl. 5.18. Who might séeme to be in better estate then Amnon who was a Kinges sonne, on whome no outward calamities fell? But yet his wicked mind marred all his fe­felicitie. He falleth in loue w^t his sister Thamar so extreamly, that he falleth sicke with loue, pineth away w^t griefe of mind, refused to take any foode, he wil obtaine his wicked purpose, or [Page 135] else pine to death, so violent­ly is he caried in his affections: but afterward hauing obtained his vnlawfull lust, then he hateth his sister more then he loued her be­fore, 2. Samuel. 19.15. thus are the wicked cari­ed without reason or measure to desire that which is vnlaw­full, and when they haue per­formed and satisfied their vn­lawfull lusts, they then begin to late to condemne their fol­lyes with gréefe and vexation of mind; therefore are the wic­ked by reason of their violence and vnconstancie in their affec­tions,Psal. 35.5.6. compared vnto dust in the wind, and the Angell of the Lord persecuting them, the persecuting Angell of the Lord, euen Sa­than driuing them violently too and fro, they neuer haue rest or quietnesse. Consider the vnquiet thoughts of the coue­tous [Page 136] person,Eccle. 31.1 hee lyeth waking in the night, when others take their rest, and pineth himselfe w^t carefull thoughts, he casteth in his minde many vnlawfull meanes how to become rich, he spareth no labour and paine, yea, goeth barely, féedeth spa­ringly on course victuals, that he might be wealthy: and when he hath riches more then suffi­cient, he is then more troubled then before, least his owne ser­uants deceaue him, and on the night season when hée should take his rest, if but a dog bark, or a mouse stirre in his cham­ber, hee is straight waies trou­bled, then he thinketh that some theefe is come to take his life & goods away; if his head doe but ake, thē is he more troubled w^t gréefe of mind, then the head­ach, for feare he should die and [Page 137] leaue all his riches; thus with labour and pining care he get­teth his riches, possesseth them in great and continuall feare, and when hee dyeth, departeth from them with great gréefe & vexation of mind. These tor­ments of a couetous man, the heathen men wel obserued, and Poets haue notably described them.Plautus. Horace. Iuuenal. Heathen men sawe that their mindes were euer trou­bled, but they could not reach to the principall cause thereof, they knew not that the iudge­ment of God was the cause of it, they ascribed it to second causes, as to the reason and cō ­science of men: both which con­straineth men to acknowledge y^t they ought to do well; & whē they do ill they condemne them­selues, and they cannot denye but y^t therefore they haue deser­ued [Page 139] punishment, & consequent­ly with feare they expect it. This point the miserable life of Richard y^e third King of this Realme doth notably prooue: who, from the time he murthe­red his brothers sonnes to ob­taine the kingdome, neuer en­ioyed one happie houre, but continuallye was vexed with feares and suspitions, mistrus­ted all men, perswaded him­selfe that hée was hated of all men (for so hee deserued) there­fore from that time, hee went alwayes with his hand vppon his Dagger, ready to entertain him that set vpon him, fearing euery houre cōspiracies against him, and often in y^e night wold leape out of his bed, and flée to his Weapons, when no man thought him hurt. Lastly, if you will beleeue one well expe­rienced [Page 138] in y^e miseries of a wic­ked mind; Marke how Dioni­sius the Tyrant of Sicily descri­beth them: who, when as Da­mocles his flatterer highlye commended his felicitie whom all the kingdōe of Sicily stoode in awe of, to shew how farre Damocles was deceaued in his opinion, caused a notable ban­quet to be set before Damocles, and caused a Sword to be han­ged ouer the head of Damocles, by a small haire, which when Damocles beheld, hée was so stricken with feare, least it should fall on his head, that he could eate none of the dainties set before him, but desired to be absent from such a feast. Here­by Dionisius signified vnto him, that although it séemed a glori­ous matter, to haue all Sicilye to bowe vnto him, yet because [Page 140] he by wicked practises had ob­tained the Kingdome, he daily and hourely feared some euill or other, so true is that speech of Iob concerning the wicked,Iob. 15.21 & 24.23. a sound of feare is in his eares, and though men giue him assurance to be in safetie, yet his cies are set on their waies, y^e supiciously obserue the countenance and doings of all men, still mistrusting some mischiefe to be working aganst them. Wherefore the estate of the wicked in this world is very well compared vnto y^e ra­ging of the sea,Esay. 57.20. which neuer is at quiet, one waue breaketh it selfe against another, the moti­ons thereof casteth vp nothing but dirt and mire: So the cō ­trary passions of the wicked, bandeth thēselues one against another, and all of them bring forth the filthinesse of an euill [Page 141] minde, trouble and vexation, noysome and hurtfull to them­selues and others: and albeit many of them are very worldly wise, who by their deuises and worldly policies, seeke to esta­blish themselues in a happie e­state; yet are all their deuises very well compared to y^e house of a Spider,Iob. 8.14. who (as a learned writer saith) by wasting his own bowels, spinneth his web, and passing curiouslie compo­seth it, yet a little puffe of wind casteth it and him downe: So albeit many wicked men excell in worldly policie, so that their cunning deuises séeme to excell the skill of the spider to entrap flies, though they spend them­selues in compassing their skil­full deuises, yet are all their de­uises no stronger then a spiders web, to withstand the iudge­ments [Page 140] of God, when it pleaseth him to blow vppon them, and bring their deuises to naught. Yea, their owne deuises intangle themselues, Prouerb. 5 22. & cap. 12.3. and work their own ouerthrowe. And albeit they wickedly thinke not so, yet in­déed they themselues are the ex­ecutioners of gods iudgement against their owne sinnes, by their vnbridled lusts. For ma­nifest proofe hereof, consider the drunkard, doth hée not by his inordinate drinking, bring dis­eases on himself, cause his own name to stinke before all men, and wast his goodes and bring himselfe and those that depend on him to beggery? now, to in­fect with diseases, and to de­fame and bring any man into hatred of all men, to spoyle a man of his gods to his vndoing is to punnish, and all these drū ­kards [Page 141] do vnto themselues ther­fore are they they themselues y^e executioners of gods iudgmēts against thēselues, though they thinke not so: the glutton like­wise by ouercharging his sto­macke, causeth many crudities in his body which ingēder ma­ny diseases, by which diseases their bodies are tormented, and their mindes infected w^t many noisōe lusts, both made vnable to do any good: the incontinent person sinneth against his own bodye, mispending that which continueth life: and conse­quently falleth into such loth­some diseases as cannot bee with modesty named, so that many of them liue not out halfe their naturall daies; or if they liue, they liue in reproache amongst men, and the best end of them, is beg­gerie. [Page 144] I néed not reckon vp the vexations of couetous men, or the proud ambition man neuer contented in his estate, or any other vitious man, since there is none so simple but may easi­ly discerne this, if they wel cō ­sider them. For most true is that saying of Saint August. that euery inordinate affection is a punishment to it selfe; w^t kinds of punishments are best knowen to those who are trou­bled with such inordinate affec­tions: these inseparable punish­ments annexed to euery vice, come not by chaunce, but by y^e ordinance of God, euen to this end, that they who wil not em­brace vertue, for the loue of vertues, and the comforts that procéede of them, might bée by the torments that accompany vices, driuen from their vi­ces, [Page 145] to the loue of vertue. Thus if you well way the estate of y^e godly & vngodly in this world, you shall finde, that farre hap­pier are the godly euen in this life, then the vngodly. For al­beit it is most true, that y^e wic­ked haue bestowed on them, more wealth, health of body, honours, and worldly commo­dities, then are bestowed on y^e godly, yet Sathan who ruleth in them, and their owne inor­dinate affections, turne these blessings of God to their grea­ter vexation. Contrariwise, albeit the godly haue many tri­bulations laid on them, yet suffer they lesse vexatiō in these, then doe the wicked in their greatest prosperities. Nay further, the godly reioyce in tribulation, knowing y^e such chastisements are tokens of [Page 146] Gods fauours, who not only foreséeth all things, but also dis­poseth of al things, with whose goodnesse it cannot stande, that any thing should happen vnto those that seriously obey him, which make not for their good. This vndoubted perswasion of the faithful, causeth them with ioy to endure any tribulation, which it pleaseth God to lay on them, and to bee contented with any estate wherein God hath appointed them to liue in, knowing that that cannot bee bettered, which he hath appoin­ted to bee done: and therefore they murmour not at any thing that betide them, nor séek vnlawful meanes to alter their estate, though it be very base & meane. As much therefore as contentment of minde, is bet­ter thē discontentment of mind, [Page 147] so much better is the estate of the godly in this life, then the estate of the vngodly. Vngodly men I confesse, abound in wealth, honours, and prosperi­ty; but none of these doe make men better, or vertuous: the faithfull for the most part want these temporall blessings, but God enricheth them with bet­ter blessings, be maketh them excell in vertue, which maketh y^e possessors thereof good, and of greater estimation and value, then al the earthly treasures in the world. Wherefore you sée how farre you are deceaued, in saying that the estate of y^e god­ly in this life, is so miserable by reason of so manifold afflicti­ons, which happen vnto them, that it were better not to bee at all, then to bee so misera­ble: God neuer layeth greater [Page 148] tribulation on any of his elect, then they are able to beare: im­possible therefore it is, y^t there shold be any man so miserable, as that it were better hee had neuer béene borne.

Nay, that is not true, which I can manifestly prooue e­uen by the authority of Christ himselfe, whose words you arē bound to defend. Doth not he say of Iudas, that better it were he had neuer beene borne? here you haue ouer-shot your selfe.

True, hee saith so of Iudas, but in saying so, he nei­ther contradicteth my position, nor prooueth your opinion: hée speaketh not there of the mise­ry of affliction; for Iudas then was in no kinde of affliction (of which kinde of misery you af­firme that it were better not to be, then endure, which I deny) [Page 149] but he speaketh of the misera­ble estate of an obstinate and impenitent sinner. You must therefore consider, that there is a double kinde of misery; Mise­ria culpae, & miseria afflictionis. I grant that y^e miserable estate of an impenitent sinner is so badde, that it were better not be, then to be such a one. This maketh nothing against my position, but to suffer the mise­ry of affliction, be it neuer so great, is better then not to bée at all. For you know that it is a position amongst all the learned, that Ens & bonum cou­uertuntur. Whatsoeuer is, or hath a being hath some degrée of goodnesse; but that which hath no being, can haue no part of goodnesse: and therefore it is better to bee miserable in af­flictions in this world, then [Page 150] not to be at all.

But this reason also pro­ueth, that it is better to be in the miserable estate of the wicked, then not to bee at all. For the wicked haue a being, yea Sa­than himselfe. Therefore it is better to be wicked, yea a Diuel, then not to be at all.

True it is their sim­ple being is better to bee, them not to be at all, in respect of the whole; but not in respect of themselues. For their being doth more set forth the glory of God, and further the good of y^e elect, thē if they were not. How could y^e iustice of God be know­en, if there were no wicked men, or ill spirits on whom his iustice might be executed? How could the loue and goodnesse of God be sufficiently knowen in protecting his elect from Sa­than [Page 151] and wicked men,Vide Aug. lib. 3. de. li. arbitr. if there were no such, which made op­position against his elect and chosen? therefore there is good vse of them vnto the whole. But in respect of themselues, it were better (through their own default) that they had neuer bin: and therefore Christ our Sauiour saith not simply of Iu­das, that it were better he had neuer béene borne; but it were better for Him, that he had ne­uer béene borne. For if it had not béene good either in respect of himselfe, or of the whole, that he should be borne, hee should neuer haue béene; for God cre­ateth nothing but to some good purpose. But our Sauiour saith of Iudas, that it had béene better for Him, that he had ne­uer béene borne, as it may bee said of all the wicked, in respect [Page 152] of themselues, it had béene bet­ter they had neuer béene borne, by reason of the euerlasting tor­ments which by their iust de­sert, they are to endure. But necessary it was, that there should be a Iudas, and wicked men. For, who but a wicked Iudas would euer attempt the betraying the Sonne of God, into the hands of his enemies? who, but wicked men would hier for monie false witnesses to accuse our Sauiour Christ & of malice and enuie put the in­nocent to death? These are necessarie executioners of the will of God, though they doe these things not to fulfill the will of GOD, but mooued thereunto, by their owne ill affections, and drawe on them­selues such miseries, that it were better for them, that they [Page 153] had neuer béene borne.

Well, say that these words are to bee vnderstood of sinne, and not of the misery of the afflictions which ordinarily come vnto those whome you cal the elect of God. I am sure you will not denie, but that Paul was one of these elect: and yet hee saith of himselfe, and generally of all those that professe Christ, that in respect of the miseries of afflictions which happen to thē in this world, they be of all men most miserable: which directly prooueth my assertion, & cleane ouerthroweth all that you haue spoken.

Nay, you wrest the words of Paul to your purpose, contrary to their sence, conclu­ding, that without exception, which he affirmeth with excep­tion: saying,1. Cor. 15.19. If in this life only we [Page 154] haue hope in Christ, we were of all men most miserable: which is a most true spéech; out of w^t you would conclude, that which is most false. For as S. Paul saith, if our hopes in Christ were bounded in the limits of this present life, surely none so miserable as a true Christian, on whome for the most part, greatest afflictions fall. But this hope in Christ altereth the misery of afflictions which fal­leth on them, as a pleasant sauce altereth the taste of harsh meates, & causeth that which in his owne nature is very vn­sauourie, to seeme very plea­sant and swéete. Take away this plesant sauce, and harsh and vnpleasant meates, will be offensiue to our taste: and take away hope in Christ frō a true Christian, and he will be of all [Page 155] creatures most miserable: this hope maketh sower afflictions séeme pleasant. For he that is a true Christian, knoweth y^e all afflictions come by the ap­pointment of God; he is per­swaded of the goodnesse of God, who layeth no affliction on a­ny of his elect, but for their good, either to exercise their pa­tience and other vertues, to re­presse their lasciuious natures, which otherwise in prosperitie would grow vitious: or to stir vp in them their hartie and zea­lous prayers, who otherwise would careleslie and seldome thinke on him, or seriously con­sider & remember that he is the gouerner of all things. Or if in particular they cannot con­iecture the cause why God af­flicteth them: yet they vndou­tedly know, that God wil turne [Page 156] them to their good; and therfore they willingly & ioyfully em­brace them. They know that their corrupt nature néede such medicines to kéepe them in the true obedience of Gods will: therefore are such afflictions welcome vnto them. They know y^t God receaueth no sonne, Heb. 12.6. but whome he correcteth: and that they are bastard sons whom he cor­recteth not. Wherefore with ioy they endure them as special notes, and arguments of Gods loue towards them. Thus you sée that farre happier is the e­state of the godly euen in this life, then the estate of the vn­godly. For the godly enioy sincere gladnesse of hart, euen in the middest of tribulation: but the wicked in their grea­test iollitie haue feares & mis­trustfulnesse which marre their [Page 157] mirth: they haue (as Iob saith) a continuall feare sounding in their eares,2. Corin. 5.12. they reioyce in the face, but not in the heart: it is ne­uer sincere. The reason hereof is, because God as a louing & careful father ouer his childrē, hath appointed vnto euery mā in particular, a Tutor or Schoolemaster continually to watch ouer him, (I mean, hath placed a conscience in euery man) who not onely sheweth him, and continually aduiseth him to embrace that which is good, but also when hee hath done well, doth glad him with preasent delight, in that he hath done well; and also filleth him full of good hopes to be rewar­ded for his well doing: so that there is no man, but feeleth this in himselfe when he hath well done a reioycing that hee hath [Page 158] done well, and that his good hopes are encreased, as I said before. But contrariwise, this conscience disswadeth vs from doing euill, and if wee disobey him, hee layeth before vs the iudgment of God: No man can deny his doome, but is constrai­ned to confesse, that he which euil doth, deserueth punishmēt, himselfe being iudge: Hence springeth feares, mistrustful­nesse, and a continuall expecta­tion of punishments due vnto his offences. Wherefore most vnhappie is the estate of the wicked, who in this life neuer enioy any sincere ioy, but such as is mixed with feare, and in the life to come, are to endure vnspeakeable and endlesse tor­ments. But most happie is the estate of the godly, who in this world, euen in the middest [Page 159] of their tribulatiō, enioy great and sincere ioy, knowing God continually to watch ouer thē for their good, expecting al­waies perfect and euerlasting ioyes in the life to come.

True, in the life to come they must looke for it, for in this life, they haue but cold comforts: but this to come, is a meere fansie. For if you will beleeue Scripture or reason, the soule hath an end of being whē the body dyeth, and dieth with the body, which being so, what neede any man feare future pu­nishments? or why should any expect any ioyes after this life, since after this life, we shall haue no life or being?

Whereas you say that the godly haue but cold com­forte in this life, you so say, be­cause you neuer had any taste [Page 160] of the comforts of the children of God; and therefore you can­not iudge of them. Whereas you say, that the life to come is a méere fansie, because as you say, the soule dyeth with the body, you speake against both Scripture and reason, how so­euer you pretend the contra­ry.

Nay, but I will prooue it plainely out of the Scripture, and by manifest reason too.

I pray let vs heare your reasons.

First, I proue it by plaine testimony of the Scripture, and first out of Ezechiel. Cap. 18.20 The soule that sinneth, the same shall die. A­gaine, Ec [...]. 10.19 Salomon saith, that The condition of the children of men, and the condition of beasts are euen one, as the one dieth, so the other dieth: for all haue one breath, and there is [Page 161] no excellencie of man aboue the beasts. Now if they both die a­like, how can it be, that the soule of man should liue when man di­eth? I am sure you will not say, that beasts haue soules, which liue, or haue any kind of beeing after they die. Now if you re­ply, that albeit beasts haue not, yet the soules of men haue a be­ing after they die: then is not that true, which Salomon affir­meth. That there is no excel­lencie of man aboue the beast, and that they both haue one breath alike; which, being so, why should I either feare tor­ments after this life for liuing ill, or expect any rewards for that I haue liued well? Now, besides these euident testimonies of the Scripture, I can also prooue this point by manifest reason, and grounds of Philosophy, as first.

Nay, pray let me first answere your testimonies out of the Scripture; then propose you humane reasons.

Be it so.

Concerning your first authority out of Ezechiell. The soule that shineth shall dye, by dying you vnderstand a seasing or leauing off, of hauing any further beeing; as when a beast dyeth, his life ceaseth to haue a­ny further being, in which vn­derstanding you much mistake the meaning of y^e words: for by dying, there is nothing else mēt but that that soule which sin­neth shall be reiected out of the fauor of God, vnto euerlasting torments, which is therefore termed a death, because the loue of God, is the true life of the soule, which loue & fauour being separated, and taken a­way [Page 163] from the soule, the soule is truely sayd to die.

But this answere cannot stand, if the words of Salomon be true. For he saith plainely, that there is no excellencie of man a­boue beasts, & that their breath is all one, & that they die alike; but if man hath a soule which liueth euerlastingly, capable of eternall blessednesse, then there is an ex­cellency in man far aboue beasts, then they die not alike. Where, if you wil not deny flat scripture, and denye the opinion of him who was the wisest man that e­uer was, or euer shalbe; You must acknowledge, that a man dieth like a beast, and haue both one end, one no better then ano­ther.

Sir, you must consider that comparisons hold not in al things, and therefore you must [Page 164] not extend & stretch them far­ther then wherein they are cō ­pared. Salomon in those words speaketh of the condition of mē and beasts, according to the outward shew, which by our eyes and senses wée can dis­cerne, and no farther he exten­deth his comparison: which words, so farre are most true. For in respect of their bodies, their condition is both alike, they both are made of y^e earth, they both continue their natu­rall life, by the benefite of the ayre, their breath is in their nostrels, & as their bodies are made of the earth, so they re­turne to earth againe when they die: all their vegetatiue & sensitiue faculties, doe then end when they die. In these things the conditions of man & beast are all alike: but aboue al these [Page 165] things, God hath endued man with an intellectuall spirit, a spirituall soule, which as it was not made of the earth so it returneth not to the earth when man dieth, as his body doth, which was made of the earth, but being a spirituall substance created of God, of no materiall substance, is no way subiect to mortality, but alway hath his being in a more per­fect manner after it is separa­ted from the body. Salomon doth not compare beasts with man in this respect: For this soule of man is not subiect to y^e viewe of the eyes of men. The soule is not a corporall sub­stance, but a spiritual substāce; and therefore cannot bee séene with our bodily eyes: to sée, & to be séene, is onely proper to corporall bodies, composed of [Page 166] elements, the soule being not of this kinde, it commeth not within the compasse of this cō ­parison, which Salomon ma­keth betwéene the condition of men and beasts, sith his com­parison is only in matters visi­ble; and herein I confesse they nothing differ.

Well sir, I cannot hin­der you from gathering a mea­ning of Salomons words, contra­ry to their sence. Salomon was wise enough to expresse his own meaning. He saith plainely, that there is no excellencie in man a­boue beasts; you say the contra­ry. Here you stand not to Scrip­ture, and yet you would haue me beleeue Scripture. I for my part haue great reason to set by the opinion of Salomon, because he was the wisest man that euer was, or euer shal be; & in matters [Page 167] of difficulty, wee ought to giue credit to wise men.

It is well that now you vrge the authoritie of the Scripture, if in shew it séeme any way to fauour your error; & now you haue reason to be­léeue Salomon, because he was the wisest man that euer was: but if Scripture, or wise men be against you, you will stand to neither.

Nay, say not so; though I yeeld not to the authority of Scripture, yet I ascribe much vnto the opinion of wise men.

This I doubt you wil deny againe.

Neuer.

Then stand to your words. Now I wil shew you euidently by the very words of Salomon, that he compareth mā and beast, but only in things [Page 168] visible, and no further: so that it is not my bare coniecture what he meaneth, but his own words do sufficiently manifest this to bee his meaning: héere take the Bible, read the words going next before those you haue alleadged, or heare them read. Salomon speaking in the verse before of the condition of men, saith, To see to, they are as beasts: for the condition of the children of men, and y^e con­dition of beasts are euen one. Now the words going before y^e testimony you alledge, doe ma­nifest wherein hee compareth them.Vers. 18. Namely, To see to, and he giueth instance in things vi­sible, as dying, and breathing: and thus farre, and herein they are both alike. Now, to vnder­stand a doubtfull text, the best way saith Augustine is to consi­der [Page 169] that which goeth before, & that which followeth, which if you had obserued, you would neuer haue alleadged these words of Salomon for your er­rour. Now, to put the matter out of all doubt, that Salomon acknowledgeth the immortali­ty of the soule, heare his words, speaking of the death of man, & what followeth, he saith, y^e dust returneth to the earth whence it came, Eccles. Cap. 12.7. & the spirit returneth to God that gaue it. Here he spea­keth distinctly of the body and soule of man: of the body, as he affrmed in the wordes which you alleaged, that it dyeth and returneth to the earth, as doe y^e carkasses of beasts: but y^e soule doth not so, it goeth to God, who gaue it. Now, Salomon was the wisest man that euer was, as you acknowledge, and [Page 170] in matters of difficulty, wee ought to giue credence to the wisest men, and this you will stand to, acknowledge now your errour.

Salomon only affirmeth this, he giueth no reason for it. Now, if wise men varie in opini­on, and some of them giue rea­son for their opinion, and some only affirme, shewing no reason; I will beleeue those who shewe reason, more then the bare asser­tion of any. You know Aristo­tle was an admirable wise man, whose learning all men iustly ad­mire and reuerence, who also concerning this point, hath writ­ten three bookes, and by many reasons discourseth of this mat­ter, and hath laboured much in searching of the truth herein, yet he affirneth the contrarye: therfore you must pardon me if I [Page 171] dissent from Salomon, who hath not laboured so farre in this mat­ter as Aristotle hath.

It is well, as long as Salomon séemed to deny y^e im­mortality of the soule, he was the wisest man that euer was, or shall be, and then you had great reason to beléeue him: but now it is prooued, that hee taught the contrary; now you haue found a wiser thē he. Salo­mō now is not to be beleued, because he only affirmeth the im­mortality of the soule, but by reason proueth it not; as thogh wise men would affirme anye thing without any ground of reason. In that he onely affir­meth it, you imagine, that hee had reason so to doe, else you denie him to bee a wise man. But I doubt not, but that A­ristotle will bee of as small au­thoritie [Page 172] with you, ere we haue done. I pray therefore let vs heare your reasons out of Ari­stotle.

It is a position in Aristo­tle, that whatsoeuer hath a begin­ning, hath an end; but the soule hath a beginning, therfore it hath an end. A second reason is this, euery naturall forme is corrupti­ble with that whereof it is the forme, as Aristotle saith, Phisico­rum. 4. text. 17. but the soule, or life of man, is the naturall forme of man. As Aristole affirmeth, lib. 3. de anima, text. 17. There­fore when man dieth, his soule also dyeth with him. Both the maior, and the minor are the very words of Aristotle, and I con­clude directly ex praemisis. A third most euident reason I take out of the eight booke of Aristotle, de­natura animalium. cap. 1. where [Page 173] he sayth, that the life or the soule of a man in his childhoode diffe­reth nothing frō the life of beasts but the life of beasts are not im­mortall, therfore the soule of man is not immortall. A fourth reasō I gather out of Aristotle, Lib. 1. Di­uinorum. text. 35. Lib. 2. D [...] anima. text. 7. that no eternall thinge can bee part of a mortall thing, but the soule of a man is a part of man, as Aristotle affirmeth, therfore the soule of man cannot be immortall.

Many excellent Philo­sophers haue searched into the nature of the soule of man, bée­sides Aristotle, and written of it, who giue excellēt reasons to shew the immortality of it, as Hermes Tresmagistus. Plato. Plotinus. Zenophon. Plutarch. Seneca. and many Poets and heathen men. Why should you reiect the reasons and opinions of all these notable men, and [Page 174] stick onely to Aristotle?

Because I like his rea­sons best.

It is a straunge thing that you should refuse the au­thority of the scripture, and the opinion of all other excellent, wise, & learned Philosophers, and sticke onely to one. But if Aristotle faile you in this point, will you then confesse, that to deny y^e immortality of the soule is absurd, against the authori­tie of the scripture, and opini­on of all the learned in all ages?

Yes, I may well enough, for I knowe Aristotle is verie cleare in this point.

Well then, now I come to answere your reasons out of Aristotle, and first before I an­swere in particular to any of your reasons, I must tell you this in generall, that Aristotle [Page 175] doth not in his three bookes de anima, speake of the substance and essence of the soule of man, but of his faculties, powers, & operations, in which respect y^e soule is said to be the naturall forme of man, and actus corpo­ris: as for the substance and es­sence of the soule, because it is a spirituall substance, and not a naturall facultie of the body, therefore it pertayneth not to naturall philosophy to handle it. This I speake not vppon coniecture, but Aristotle him­self in plaine termes telleth you this, in his second booke de ani­ma, the second chapter, the last words of the chapter. Now thē, if you wil beléeue Aristotle him selfe expounding himselfe, you must vnderstand whatsoeuer he saith in his thrée bookes de anima, to be spoken of the vegi­table, [Page 176] and sensible life of men and beasts, and not of the in­tellectuall, and reasonable soule of man; and he giueth a reason why in those books he speaketh not of it, because saith he, the intellectuall & reasonable soule or life of man, is a certaine di­uine substance subsisting of it selfe, separable from the body, and in this respect, not actus cor­poris, not the naturall forme of the body: and the better to illu­strate his meaning, he compa­reth the soule of a man in the body, to a Marriner in a ship. As a Marriner is of a different nature from the ship, subsisting of himselfe: so is the soule of man in the body, of a different nature from the body, of a far more excellēt nature subsisting of it selfe. As the Marriner gi­ueth motion vnto the ship, and [Page 177] directeth it this way, and that way, whither so euer it plea­seth him to saile: so the soule of man, guideth the body whither it pleaseth him to goe. As the Marriner hath a vigilent care and loue to his shippe, to sée to it, that it take no harme, & repayreth the decayes of it: so the soule careth for the good of the body, causeth it to decline from those things which are hurtful for y^e body, & by his sen­sible and vegitable faculties, daylie repayreth the decaying body. As the Marriner doth not decay with his ship, but is safe and sound, though his ship leake, or by reason of age rotte away: so neither is the soule of man any whitte the worse, though his body decay & turne to corruption. This in gene­rall might suffice to answere [Page 178] all which might be brought out of Arilio les books de anima: but because you shal haue no cauil, I will in particular answere euerie one of your arguments. This is your first argument. Whatsoeuer hath a beginning, hath an end. But y^e soul of man hath a beginning, therefore it hath an end. I graunt your whole sillogisme to be general­ly true without exception, in thinges whereof Aristotle ma­keth this generall Maxime; Namely in things natural, cō ­posed of the foure elements, but the reasonable and intellectuall soule of man, is not a naturall thing composed of the foure e­lements, as Aristotle himselfe confesseth, therefore this posi­tion of Aristotle, VVhatsoeuer hath a beginning hath an end, maketh nothing against the [Page 179] immortalitie of the soule, albeit it hath a beginning. Your se­cond reason is this. Euery na­tural forme is corruptible with that wherof it is a forme. But the soule of man is the naturall forme of man, therefore when man dyeth, the soule dieth also. To this I answeare, that the resonable soule of man may be considered 2. waies, either ac­cording to his essence, or accor­ding to his operations, powers, and faculties: his operations also are of 2. kindes, whereof some are such, as the soule exer­ciseth without any instrument of the bodie, as his intellectuall powers, as for example; the soule of man iudgeth of truth and falshood, discourseth of the naturall causes of thinges, and by the effects of thinges sear­cheth into the causes of things: [Page 180] it discourseth of celestiall mat­ters and things inuisible: these and the like operations y^e soule vseth without any ayd or helpe of the body, and these remaine still with the soule, though the body perish: other faculties the soule exerciseth in the body, and by the ayd of the bodie. In the bodie, when it giueth life vnto the bodye by his sensible and vegitable faculties; and in re­spect of these his faculties and operations, the soule is truely said to bée the naturall forme of man, and these sensible and vegitable operations of the soule, dye with the bodye. True therefore is your Maior Proposition, that euery natu­rall forme dyeth with y^e wher­of it is the forme; but this is nothing against the immortali­ty of the soule, because y^e soule [Page 181] is not properly the naturall forme of man in respect of his substance, but only in respect of some of his faculties, because by his faculties it giueth life to man. But if you respect his es­sence, it is a spirituall substāce separable from the body, with­out impeachment to his being; and in this respect it is not the naturall forme of man,Arist. lib. 2. de anima. c. 1. vlt. verb. capitis. as Ari­stotle himselfe doth confesse: so that Aristotle being your iudge, your argument is of no force. Your thirde reason is this, The soule, or life of man in his childhood, differeth nothing frō the life of beasts; but the liues of beasts are not immortall, Ergo. I confesse, both the Ma­ior, and Minor, to be most true in that sence as Aristotle spea­keth them, but not in y^e sence whereunto you wrest them. [Page 182] Aristotle speaketh in that place not of the essence of the soule,Li. 8. de nat. anim. ca. 1. whether it bee corruptible, or immortall, but only of the o­peration of mans soule in his childhood; which as hee saith, differeth then nothing from beasts, which is most true. Nay, I say further, in this re­spect beasts are to be preferred before children. Childrē know not what is good or euil for thē, but beasts naturally knowe what is good for them, & what is ill for them, and they chuse the one, and refuse the other. But this assertion maketh no­thing against the immortality of the soule. Neither had Ari­stotle any intent to speake of it in that place,Lib. 1. diui­narum. as y^e circumstāce of it will manifest vnto you, if you looke into it. Your fourth reason is this, No eternall [Page 183] thing can be a part of a mortal,Lib. 2. de a­nima. ca. 1. or a corruptible thing, but the soule of man is a part of man: therefore it cannot be immor­tall. Both Maior and Minor are Aristotles I confesse, I di­stinguish therefore of the soule; if you respect his owne na­ture, as a thing subsisting by himselfe, it is not a part of mās body; but if you consider his o­peration in giuing life to y^e bo­dy, it is a part of mans body, & is, as Aristotle saith, actus cor­poris, and the forme of the body. Now, that the soule according to his essence, is not a part of the body of man, but only in respect of his faculties and o­perations, Aristotle himselfe plainely confesseth in many places, as in his first booke de anima, he saith, that the intelle­ctuall life, or soule of man, is [Page 184] contayned in no part of mans body, and that he is separable from the body without any di­minutiō, or hurt to his essence. This affirmeth he also in his second booke de anima, in diuers places. And in his third booke de anima, he saith, that the in­tellectuall part of the soule of man, procéedeth not frō y^e mat­ter of the body, as all naturall formes doe: and therefore by consequent it is eternall, and not subiect to corruption. Ari­stotle therefore himselfe being iudge, the intellectuall soule is not a part of the body, but on­ly in some respect; as by his ope­ratiō it giueth life vnto man, w^t he not only affirmeth; but also explayneth his meaning by fit examples, by the example of a Marriner, which giueth moti­on to the Shippe, and directeth [Page 185] it, but is no part of the Shippe: and by the example of a seale, which causeth a certaine forme in the waxe, but is no part of the waxe; You may bruse the waxe together, and marre the forme imprinted by the seale, without any hurt at all to the seale: so may the body of man turne to corruption, whereunto y^e soule giueth a naturall forme by his operation, yet without the hurt of the essence of the soule, because it is a diuine sub­stance subsisting by it selfe, se­parable from the body, by the confession of Aristotle himselfe. Thus you see, your reason is of no force, by the opinion of Ari­stotle on whome only you relie. Now, because I will not be be­holding to you for your foure reasons out of Aristotle a­gainst the immortality of the [Page 186] soule, I will requite you with foure more out of Aristotle, to prooue the immortality of the soule; and if néede were, I could double them, since in this point you relie so much on him. My first reason out of Aristotle is this; God and nature (saith he) maketh nothing in vaine, but the soule of euery man, natu­rally desireth to be immortall, to liue continually in euerla­sting happinesse; therefore is it immortall: else this naturall desire of the soule, of being e­uerlastingly in happinesse, is made in vaine, which Aristotle denyeth. Other liuing crea­tures appetites, runne on those things which presently they loue and like; their imaginati­ons runne not on pleasure to come, they conceaue not of any felicity after this life, much lesse [Page 187] do they desire it, for they know it not. God hath giuen to eue­ry creature such seuerall appe­tites and desires, as are agrée­able to their seuerall natures: the Horse desireth not to flie, as God hath not giuen him meanes to flie: the fish desireth not to walk on y^e land, or liue on the land, as God hath not giuen him meanes to walke, neither is able to liue out of the water; neither beasts, fowles, or fishes, desire to abound in ri­ches, gold, or siluer, sith they haue no vse of it. Generally, God indueth no creature with any naturall desire of y^e, where­of he is not capable. Now then, sith God hath indued the soule of euery man with a naturall desire of continuing immortal­ly in euerlasting hapines, ther­fore he is capable of it, accor­ding [Page 188] to the opinion of Aristotle; who holdeth this as a sure ground, that God and nature hath made nothing in vaine. My second ground out of Aristo­tle for the immortality of the soule is this, Whatsoeuer sub­stāce is not cōposed of the foure elements, is not corruptible, (for as he saith, the cause of cor­ruption procéedeth from y^e con­trariety of the elements where­of they are made) but the soule is not composed of the foure e­lements: therefore the soule is not corruptible, but immortall. Both the Maior and Minor are Aristotles, therefore according to Aristotle, the soule is immor­tall. My third reason which I take out of Aristotle, is this, The intellectuall and reasona­ble soule of man, is a diuine substance, which hath his be­ing [Page 189] separable from the body, whose essence is not contayned in any part of the body, & may be separated from the body as a thing incorruptible, saith Ari­stotle: whence I make this sil­logisme, whatsoeuer is a di­uine substance separable from the body, and incorruptible. Howsoeuer the body of man perisheth is immortal, but Ari­stotle saith, y^t the soule is a di­uine substance contayned in no part of the body, separable from the body, as an incorruptible thing frō a corruptible. There­fore according to Aristotle, the soule is immortall. My fourth reason which I take out of Ari­stotle is this: That substance whose operations depend not of the body, his essence depen­deth not of the body, but the o­perations of the soule of man [Page 190] dependeth not of the body, but of the spirituall and diuine sub­stance, whose essence is separa­ble frō the body; therfore it peri­sheth not with the body. Both y^e Maior & Minor are Aristotles, w^c Aristotle proueth by the ex­ample of the eyes of old men. If (saith he) an old man had y^e eye of a child, hee would sée as cléerely as a child, hereby sig­nifying, that the soule of man doth not impaire with the bo­dy, as in diuers diseases it is manifest. When as the body is most weake, the faculties of the mind are most stronge; then the minde and soule of man most sharply vnderstādeth any thing and is most iuditious, then his desires are most vehement, and his loue to goodnesse, & mislike of sinne is most ardent: then that naturall inclination, and [Page 191] desire of being euerlastingly in felicity, doe most shew it selfe. Which naturall affection and appetite of the soule were in vaine, if the soule of man were not capable of immortality, which is a thing flatly denyed by Aristotle, that God should giue any naturall desire to any thing in vaine. Besides these and many more arguments w^t I could bring out of Aristotle, there are diuers other reasons which might be brought for y^e proofe of this point, as that it cannot stand with the iustice of God, that the soule of man should perish with his body, be­cause as there are many who haue seriously worshipped him and haue passed their liues a­gréeable to his will, yet worse hath betide them, then hath happened vnto those that haue [Page 192] dishonoured him: so contra­riwise, many in this life haue liued most lewdly, yet haue spent all their daies in great prosperity, inriched with great wealth, & dignified with great honours. Wherefore necessa­rily it followeth, y^t there must be a life to come, wherein the one is to be punished, and the other rewarded. It cannot stand with the mercy of God, that the soule shold perish with the body, since he made man y^e excellentest creature in y^e world whom he loueth aboue all crea­tures, for whose sake hee made all the world, and indued him with more speciall graces then all creatures, euen in a man­ner equal to Angels: and when he fel from y^e excellency wherin he created him, spared not his only begottē Sonne to redéeme [Page 193] him from misery: and yet for all this, if you consider man in this life onlie, whether you re­spect the manifold diseases inci­dent to his body, or the infinite vexation of his mind, hee is of all creatures in the world (Di­uels excepted) the most misera­ble. Now, sith it so fareth with him in this life, it cannot stand with the mercy and goodnes of God, but to appoint a better place, and better life, where his goodnesse and mercy to man, may bee shewed. It cannot stand with the honour & glorie of God, that that creature shold euer perish, the which hée hath made to behold and consider his euerlasting and maruailous workes, & to participate of his euerlasting goodnesse, as to this purpose he hath made men and Angels. And therefore of all [Page 194] the creatures vnder heauen, hath made the countenance of man to looke vpwards, his eyes rowling fit to turn euery way; his necke flexible to looke round about, that with facility & ease, he might contemplate & behold all the works of God, both a­boue him, about him, and vn­der him. He hath indued him with reason, to consider & dis­course on the excellēcy of them; and only vnto man a tongue, to expresse the power, wisdome, and goodnesse of God, and to glorifie him for the goodnesse which he imparteth to his crea­tures. Now, if the reasonable soule of man, made to glorifie God should perish, then y^e chie­fest instrument of Gods glory should perish; but it cannot stand with the glory of God, that the chiefest instrument of [Page 195] his glory should perish. There­fore it is against al reason, that the soule of man should perish with the body. It cannot stand with naturall reason, that the soule of man should perish with the body, because the soule of man hath not his beginning from the substance of the body, as y^e liues of beasts haue their beginning out of the matter & substāce of their bodies; & there­fore it dyeth with their bodies, because the beginning thereof came from a corruptible cause. Their bodies are corruptible, because they are composed of cōtrary qualities, as your frend Aristotle confesseth: But it is not so in the soule of man. The soule of man is not made out of the matter of his body, as Ari­stotle also confesseth, but is a diuine substance, which came [Page 196] frō God. And here by y^e way, suffer me to shew you, y^t your Aristotle agreeth in this point with the Scripture: When as God made the beasts, sowles, and créeping things, hee said, Let the earth bring forth euery li­uing thing according to his kinde: Genes. 1.24.25. and in the words following, it is said, G [...]d made the beasts of the earth. But when God com­meth to make man, he speaketh after another manner: saying, Let vs make man, where y^e holy Ghost speaking to y^e weaknes of our capacitie: signifieth, that man is of that excellencie, that that God, euen the Trinitie, tooke consultation in making man. Let vs make man. When hee made other creatures, hee saith only, let this or that bee, and it was done: but when he commeth to make mā, he shew­eth [Page 197] to what dignity hee orday­neth him, and whereunto hée maketh him, euen like vnto himselfe. The soule of man (which is properly man, accor­ding to that speech in y^e Scrip­ture:Gen. 2.7. 1. Cor. 15.45. Mā was made a liuing soule) is the very image of God. As God is infinite, and knoweth all things; so is the soule of mā made infinite, to receaue all knowledge. He neuer know­eth so much, but is capable to know more. Secondly, as the will of God is infinite; so is y^e will of man made infinite, not tyed to will this or that, but whatsoeuer it pleaseth, it can­not be constrayned to will any thing. Thirdly, as God is in­finitely good; so is the soule of man capable of infinite good­nesse: nay it neuer ceaseth, vn­till it attayneth it. Make man [Page 198] a King, he is not satisfied, but his desire enlargeth it selfe far­ther. Make him a Monarke, he is not contented, he will de­sire more. Make him Lord of all the world, yet is he not con­tented: The reason hereof is, because these thinges may bée bettered. So that as the na­tures of the elements are, they neuer cease vntill they come to the place of their proper elemēt. The fire neuer ceaseth tending vpward, vntill it be aboue the element of the aire; nor the aire, vntil it be aboue the water; nor the water euer ceaseth to fall downward, vntill it come to y^e bottome of the sea; nor any part of the earth, vntill it come vnto y^e center of the earth, if it were not hindred. So the soule of man neuer ceaseth vntill it come vnto God himselfe, from [Page 199] whome it came. No finite goodnesse can satisfie it, but on­ly that wherein there is no de­fect, which only is God himself. Fourthly, as God is eternal, so the naturall desire of the soule is, to be eternall in happinesse, and to liue euerlastingly. Fift­ly, as God ruleth al the world, and euery creature therein, and giueth life vnto them and mo­tion: so the soule of man giueth life vnto all the body of man, and motions vnto euery mem­ber thereof, and ruleth y^e whole body according to his wil: nay further, man (according to that authority which God hath gi­uen him) hath authority ouer all the beasts of the field, fowles of the ayre, fishes of the sea, and all earthly creatures to rule & vse them at his pleasure, as a pettie God on earth. Sixtly, as [Page 200] God ruleth all the world, yet can he not be séene, nor compre­hended what he is: so the soule ruleth the whole body; yet can it not be séene, nor rightly by humane reason be comprehen­ded what it is. Seauenthly, as God is in the world, but is not contayned in any part of the world; so the soule of man is in the body of man: but is not con­tayned in any part of the body, as your Aristotle saith, but by his reasonable and spiritual fa­culties discourseth of things far distant from y^e body, he is with a trise discoursing of matters in forraigne countries, and in the twinckling of an eye at home againe. He is considering on things on earth, and in a mo­ment he mounteth vp to heauē; he is not wearied, or payned with the greatnesse of the iour­ney. [Page 201] There he discourseth on spirituall inuisible and diuine matters, of the maiesty of God, of his infinite wisdome, pow­er, mercy, and iustice: of the fe­licity and eternall happines of the Angels: all these & the like operations, y^e soule vseth with­out any ayde of the body. Now in all things created, there are two things to be considered the essence of the things and their operations. There can be no o­peration of any thing whereof there is no essence: no more thē there can be any accident with­out a subiect. But you sée e­uen by the opinion of Aristotle, that the soule h [...]th peculiar o­perations vnto himself, no way depending on the ayde of y^e bo­dy. Therefore the soule is a seuerall substance, differing frō the substance of the body, w [...]ose [Page 202] operations are diuine, & there­fore their subiect the soule, must néedes bee diuine. But how now man? what muse you on so stedfastly? how do you now like Aristotle?

I cannot tel what to say to this point; it is hard for Aristo­tle or any humane reason wel to determine what the soule is, it is so strange a thing.

You say right, in di­uine & spirituall matters ther­fore, you might doe well to be­léeue diuine testimonies. If you would but reade the Scripture & beléeue it, your mind would be easilie setled in this point, and all others, necessary for man to know, in it there can be no errour.

The Scripture? no er­rour in it? nay, the Scripture was it, that first draue me to these [Page 203] opinions. For I find in it so ma­ny falshoods and vntruthes, so many absurdities, so many vnrea­sonable things, that he is a sence­lesse man that perceaueth it not, and a foole that beleeueth it.

It is your manner, to be confident in your opinion, be it neuer so absurd. But shew either any vntruth or absurdi­ty, or any vnreasonable thing contayned in the Scripture, & I will be of your opinion, that no credit is to be giuen to the Scripture.

Will you stand to your words?

Yes truely.

Well, then I will shewe you diuers playne and euident vntruths. God sayd to Adam, when he placed him in Paradise, in that day that thou eatest of the tree of knowledge of good and euil, [Page 204] thou shalt dye the death, and in the next chapter following, Mo­ses saith, that hee did eate of the forbidden fruite, and dyed not, and saith further in the 5. chap­ter, Vers. 5. that Adam liued nine hundred and thirtie yeares. If he dyed not, that day wherein hee did eate of the forbidden fruite. But liued many yeares afterward, and be­gat children. Then that is not true, that he should dye the same daye, that hee should eate of the forbidden fruite. If he dyed that day that he did eate of the forbid­den fruite: Then the other can­not be true, that he liued so long, and begat children, then tell me which of these two are false. The second vntruth I take out of the 4. chap. of Genesis. When Caine had slaine his brother Abel. God saith vnto him for his punishmēt, a vagabond and a runnagate shalt [Page 205] thou be in the earth. And yet in the same chapter it is sayd, that Kain dwelt in the East side of Eden, and builded a Citie. If Caine were ahoushoulder, and builded a Ci­tie. How was hee a vagabound and a runnagate, both these can­not be true: Tell me which of them is false? A third vntruth I gather out of the whole scripture which is this, large promises of health, wealth, and prosperitie, vnto those that keepe the law of God. And contrariwise, many curses against the wicked: Yet if the scripture be true, they which in the Scripture are renowned for piety and holinesse were most afflicted, and the wicked most a­bounded in prosperitie. The like wee see in our dayes true for the most part. Now tell mee whe­ther these promises haue beene truely performed or no. A fourth [Page 206] vntruth I take out of the booke of Iudges, Iud. 10.13. where God saith to the Israelites, that hee had manye times deliu [...]red them out of the hands of their enemies, but when they were once freed, then they would forsake him againe and fall to Idolatrie: Therefore he gaue them this flat answere, whē they cryed vnto him in their tro­ble, that hee would helpe them no more. Yet for all this, he did helpe them afterwards. How can this agree? God would helpe them no more, and that God did helpe them againe, both cannot bee true. Now for absurdities in the scripture, this is one especiall.

Nay pray, before you procéed further, let me answere these which you call falshoodes and vntrueths.

Yea, pray answere thē if you can.

Iosephus recordeth that Sedechias King of Israell (who had no intent or purpose to obay the will of y^e Lord)Lib. 10. cap. 10. et 11. anti. sought rather how is cauill with the words of the Prophets, which were sent vnto him, then either to knowe or obserue the will of the Lord, so that when as Iere­mias the Prophet prophesied y^t he should bée caried away cap­tiue to Babilon except he repen­ted, and obayed the will of the Lord: And Ezechiell also pro­phesied that hee should be made captiue vnto the King of Babi­lon, and led away into captiui­tie, but he should neuer sée Ba­bilon. Sedechias comparing the wordes of these twoo Prophets together, it séemed to him, that there was a contradiction in their prophesies, y^t one prophe­sying that hee should bée caried [Page 208] away captiue to Babilon: the other prophesying that hée ne­uer should see Babilon. Both these could not bee true (as hée thought) and if either of them were false, both of them might be false, and therefore he belee­ued neither of them: but conti­nued still in his wickednes, vn­till he indéed, he was carried a­way captiue vnto Babilon, ac­cording to the prophesie of Iere­mie, but he neuer saw Babilon, according to the prophesie of E­zechiell. Ieremie. 39.7. For the King of Babi­lon caused his eies to be pulled out of his heade before hee was brought vnto Babilon. Such is y^e iudgement of God against the wicked,2. Pet. 2.19. that they (who haue no purpose to obaye the will of God,) shall not vnder­stand the woordes of God, yea the word of God which is to o­thers [Page 209] a light in darkenes, to guide them the right waie, is hidden vnto them, nay it is a stūbling blocke vnto them,Ioh. 7.15. if aeny man will do his will (saith our Sauiour) hee shall knowe of the doctrine whe­ther it be of God or no, them one­ly God teache [...]h the right way, who feare him, and intend to keepe and obserue his comman­dements. The true vnderstan­ding of the word of God, is a secret, res [...]rued as a peculier thing onely for such,Psal. 25.12.14. as in since­retie feare the Lord, as the Pro­phet Dauid saith. And therfore when as our Sauiour spake in the presents of the malicious Scribes & Pharisies, hee spoke in parables, (for the pearles of God pertaine not vnto Dogs and Swine) but he causeth his disciples to vnderstand them in priuate. Saying,Math. 7.6. cap. 15.26. vnto you it is gi­uen [Page 210] to know the secrets of the king­dome of heauen, but vnto thē (that is to y^e wicked and malicious) it is not giuen. I doe not mer­uaile therefore to see you, as a corrupt stomake which turneth euen the best meates into cor­ruption, and matter of diseases, w^t sound stomackes you turne into good nutriment: so turne that which is most true in it selfe, vnto falshood and absurdi­ties; being carried away with a preiudicial conceit, more wil­ling to cauill with, then to vn­derstād the word of God. Now that these are not vntruthes which you haue alleadged, I will by the grace of God make most manifest. The first, w^t séemeth vnto you to be vntrue, is, in that God said vnto Adā, that he should die the same day that he should eate of the for­bidden [Page 211] fruit, but the Scripture testifieth, that he died not the day that he did eate of the for­bidden fruit, but liued nine hū ­dred and thirtie yeares after­wardes. In these words there is no contradiction or falshood, as you imagine: y^t which, that you may the better vnderstand, you must know, that there are thrée sorts of liues, and thrée sorts of deathes: thrée sorts of liues, as first, the corporal life which is the coniunction of bo­dy and soule, in which vnion, the soule giueth all vegitable & sensible faculties vnto the bo­dy, his intellectuall, and reaso­nable faculties, hee exerciseth without the body. Secondly, the spirituall life, whereby wée liue vnto God, when as we be­ing made the temples of the ho­ly Ghost, liue a sanctified life [Page 212] vnto the honour of God. A third kind of life is that spiri­tuall life, which after this life, the Saints of God liue in the presence of God in fulnesse of ioy and happinesse. Likewise, there are three sorts of deathes; a corporall death, when as the soule departeth from the body, leauing neither sence, nor moti­on in the body. Secondly, there is a spirituall death in this life, when as the spirit of God de­parteth from vs, or is not resi­dent in vs, without whose pre­sence and ayde, we cannot but fall into all kind of wickednes: neither can we haue any moti­ons of godlinesse, wherein con­sisteth a spirituall life. A third kind of death, is after this life, when as a man is cast into hell body and soule, there euerla­stingly to endure torments vn­speakable. [Page 213] Now true it is, A­dam died not the first kinde of death, which is the seperation of the body and soule, y^e same day he did eate of the forbidden fruit, as it was not meant hée should: but he died the second kind of death, which is a reie­ction out of Gods fauour, wher­in the happie life of man consi­steth; and that God denounced vnto Adam the second kind of death, and not the first. S. Am­brose prooueth out of the words of the text, God saith not to A­dam, what day thou eatest of the trée of knowledge of good & euill thou shalt die. (saith S. Ambrose:) but thou shalt die the death; by saying thou shalt die the death, hee importeth more, then if hee had said, thou shalt die. For in saying, thou shalt die The death, he signifi­eth, [Page 214] that he should die y^e death of all deathes, y^e greatest death of all others, euen reiected out of the fauour of God: and that he died this kind of death the same day he tasted of the forbid­den fruit. I néede not stand to prooue, sith the thing is mani­fest: so that there is no contra­diction in the Scripture in this point, but the fault is in your miscōstruing it: he died y^e same day he tasted of the forbidden fruit, the second death; and the same day also, was his bodie made subiect to death, which before by y^e fauour of God was immortall: and this mortality of the body, was the consequent of the second death. To liue, is to enioy those things which in themselues are good & pleasant. Arist. Eth. li. 9. c. 9. But Adam immediatly after his transgres­sion, [Page 215] lost those things which in themselues were good and plea­sant: therefore he died imme­diately after his transgression: Which positiō of Aristotle fitly agréeth with our commō spéech. When wée sée a man heauie and dumpish without any cou­rage, we say, that hee hath no life in him: and of men in mi­sery we say, such a life is no life. Hée dyed therefore the same daye, though hee liued in the body many years after. If you like not Ambroses in­terpretation, consider what the Scripture saith,2. Pet. 3.8. that a thow­sand yeares are as one day with the Lord. But Adam dyed within the compasse of a thow­sand yeares; therefore hée died the same day, a day being taken for a thowsand yeares with the Lord. Now say, that [Page 216] Adam neuer died either in bo­dy or soule; yet you cānot iustly say, that there is any falshood in those words of the Scripture, which you haue alleadged con­cerning the punishment of A­dam: for these words. Thou shalt die the death, the same day wherein thou shalt eate the forbid­den fruit: are not a prophesie what should come to passe; but a commination annexed to a precept, to deterre Adam from breaking the commandement. Now you knowe that hee, who hath authoritie to make a law, and appoint punnishments for the breakers thereof: reserueth alwaies a power vnto himself, to mitigate those punnishmēts which it plesed him to appoint for the breakers of his law: in mittigating whereof, he offen­deth neither the law, nor equi­ty. [Page 217] The primary & principal in­tent of good Princes, in appoin­ting gréeuous punishments for offenders of their lawes, is especiallye to deferre and feare their subiects frō transgressing their comandements. They in­tend not principallie their pu­nishment in those comminati­ons, but especially vse them as means to kéep thē in obedience vnto their law: wishing rather their obedience then their pu­nishments, so y^e punishments denounced in cōminations, are not alwaies intended to be exe­cuted vnto y^e vtmost extremity: But so farre forth, as they may deferre subiects from breaking the lawes, which in dutie they are bound to obserue. But sée how Sathan ruleth your maliti­ous heart and tongue, if God should in rigor without mercie [Page 218] haue vtterlye destroyed Adam presently vpon his offence, both body and soule. Then would your clamorous mouth haue béene open, to declaime against the rigor of Gods iudgements: but now because he vseth mer­cie in his iudgements, there is no truth in his woordes: be­cause he treatneth seuerely, but dealeth mercifully, refrayne your blasphemous tongue, least you tast of his iudgmēts with­out mercy. Concerning your second contradiction (as you i­magine) that Kain was a hous­dweller, and built and liued in a Citie, and therefore that was not true which God said shold happen vnto him, that he shold be a runnagate, and a vaga­bound. First, the word in y^e ori­ginall which is translated a rū ­nagate; doth as well signifie an [Page 219] vnconstant and variable min­ded man, or a man of a troubled & fearefull mind, alwaies mis­trusting and expecting some e­uill to happen vnto him, and that Kaine was such a one, the verie building of his Citie doth argue. For before this sentence of God, against the hainous sinne of Kaine, Kaine, nor any else euer fortified themselues with walles or Cities, which was an argument, that they neuer feared inuasion of men or beasts. Secondly, y^t Kaine built a Citie and dwelt in it, is a weake argument, that hee was no vagbo and, for although Moses presently after the sen­tence of God against Kaine, Sheweth where he built a Ci­tie and dwell: yet he setteth not down when he built this City. Moses briefly setteth downe [Page 220] that, which was done after many yeares, it was vsual thē, that men liued Eight or Nine hundred yeares. Now it may be that Kain was a vagabound for the space of Fiue Hundred yeares, and after builded this Citie, and this is not my méere coniecture, but Iosephus recor­deth, that Kaine wandred into many countries, before he built this Citie. Thirdlye, these words, Thou shalt be a vagabond, is a iudicial sentence: in which sentences, alwaies what shall be done vnto the offender is not set downe, necessarilye to bee executed: but what his offence deserueth. As we sée dayly in the execution of malefactors, the extremity of the sentence of the Iudge is sieldome perfor­med, but in compassion miti­gated.

Well, but yet you will not denye, but that Kaine buil­ded a Citie.

It cannot bee denyed, for the plaine words of the text affirmeth it.

If he did, I pray tel me how many Citizens he had? what Masons and Carpenters he had? If you will beleeue the Scripture, there were not then in all the world aboue Fiue or Sixe men. Therefore, for Kaine to build a Citie, seemeth an absurd thing, since then, there were no people to inhabite it.

Hee that hath a desire rather to cauill with the Scrip­ture, then to vnderstand it, shall for his vnreuerend vsage of it, and his infidelity, haue this punishment, that hee shall neuer vnderstand the Scrip­ture. I beléeue the Scripture, [Page 222] yet am I not bound to beléeue that there were in all y^e world but fiue or sixe persons when Kaine built his Citie: for the Scripture saith not so, neither in any probability was it so. The Scripture indéede men­tioneth no more, but it follow­eth not thereon, that then there were no more. Moses onlie briefely nameth those of princi­pall note; but that there were then many more, it is more thē probable. Iosephus recordeth that Kayne built this Citie a­bout his latter dayes, as it should séeme by the vsuall time that men then liued, when hée was about some seauē or eight hundred yeares of age. Now, in seauen or eight hundred yeares, Kaynes children and his childrens children might ve­ry well grow to a very great [Page 123] number, sufficient to inhabit a Citie. Therefore if you con­sider the matter dulie, you may know, that it cannot séeme that Kayne should not build a Citie, for want of people to inhabit it, as you without probability ga­ther. Now, concerning your third vntruth, which you wold gather out of the Scripture, in that, God promiseth all man­ner of blessings spirituall, and temporall, to those that kéepe his commandements: and con­trariewise, all manner of pu­nishments against those that breake his lawes: and yet the Scripture testifieth, that they which were most godly, suffe­red most affliction, and they which were most wicked, espe­cially prospered and enioyed greatest happinesse here on earth, as also daylie experience [Page 224] teacheth the same. For answer whereof, you are to consider, y^t the promises of temporall bles­sings are promised cōditional­ly, if they kéepe the law; but none euer yet kept the lawe. Therefore, no man can in right chalenge them to be performed vnto them. Secondly, you are to consider, that when y^e Lord promised the land of Canaan, wealth, health, and worldlie prosperity, the land of Canaan, nor health, wealth, and prospe­rity is properly and principally to be vnderstoode and meant; but figuratiuely vnder y^e name of these earthly blessings, spiri­tuall blessings are principally vnderstood. The reason why God vseth the names of these earthly blessings, to expresse these spirituall blessings vnto men, which he principally in­tendeth [Page 225] vnto them, is, because that as these spiritual blessings excéede the capacitie of mortall men: so there are no sufficient words sufficiently ta expresse y^e excellency of them. Therfore God vseth the names of earth­ly blessings best knowne vnto men, to signifie vnto thē, those blessings, which as yet their weaknesse cannot conceaue of. Now, that these earthly bles­sings promised to the obseruers of the law, are not principally ment, but spirituall blessings vnder their names, and that y^e Saints of God, expected spiri­tuall blessings vnder y^e names of these blessings. It is mani­fest by diuers places of y^e scrip­ture, Dauid was borne in the land of Canaan, and liued in the land of Canaan the land of pro­mise, yet hee acknowledged y^t [Page 226] he was a stranger therein,Ps. 39.14. say­ing, that he was a stranger and a soiourner here, as all his fore­fathers were. How was hée a soiourner in Canaan where hée was borne, except he expected an other Canaan, which hee ac­knowledged to be his own coū ­trey? And in the 27. Psal. 13. Dauid saith, I should haue fainted, except I had beleeued to see the goodnesse of the Lord in the land of the liuing. Canaan could not be that land of the liuing where he hoped to sée the goodnesse of the Lord: for as well in Canaan, as in other lands all men dyed, so that it could not be termed the land of the liuing. Likewise y^e Apostle to the Hebrewes saith of the Saints of God,cap. 11.10.40. that they looked for a celestiall Ierusalē ▪ they receiued not the promises of these earthly blessings, for God prouided [Page 227] better things for them: euen the ioyes of the kingdome of hea­uen signified vnder these earth­ly blessings, and principally in­tended. Lastly, it is manifest by the very words which God vseth in these promises, that vnder the name of the land of Canaan, the kingdome of hea­uen is meant. For in Gen. 13.15. the Lord saith, that he will giue the land of Canaan vnto Abraham and his séede for euer: which cannot be vnderstood of the land of Canaan; for this world shall not endure for euer, and long since his séede lost the possession of it. Therefore it must néedes be spiritually vn­derstood.

You say principally in­tended. Then also earthly bles­sings, and earthly punishments were also intended, though not [Page 228] principally; but sure these are not performed. For albeit the iustest man cannot chalenge any iotte of these promises, because (as you say) they doe not per­fectly fulfill the law: yet they more deserue them, then those who nothing regard Gods com­mandements. But experience proueth, that the iustest commō ­ly taste least of these blessings, and the wicked are least puni­shed.

True it is, that God promiseth rewards to those who kéep his laws, & denoun­ceth punishments against those who breake his law. But the performance of these, are not done according to the fancie of men, but by the ordinance of God. The portion of punish­ment appointed for the godly, are performed in this life; but [Page 229] the portion of their blessings principally intended them, is performed in the life to come. Contrariwise, the portion of the ioyes of the wicked, is per­formed vnsually vnto them in this life; but their torments principally intended, in y^e life to come. Therefore it is said, that Iudgement beginneth at the house of God. 1. Pet. 4.17. And this course God hath alwaies obserued. Great were the sinnes of the children of Israell, when they committed fornication with the daughters of Moab: Numb. 25. yet nothing in comparison of the sinnes of the Moabites; yet God beginneth in punishing the Is­raelites, and afterwards punis­sheth the Moabites. Numb. 31. Great were the sinnes of the Israelites in y^e time of Esay the Prophet: but if their sinnes were compared [Page 230] vnto the sinnes of the Assirians, they were but small: Yet God beginneth in punishing with the Israelites. Nay, he vseth the wicked Assirians to punish the Israelites,Esay. 10. and afterward, punisheth the Assirians. In the time of the Prophet Ezechiell, the children of Israell prouoked y^e Lord to poure out his wrath on them; so that he spared nei­ther young nor old, saue them who mourned in secret for the abhominations that were com­mitted amongst them.Ezech. 9.4.6. In puni­shing the rest, hee giueth this commandement, that the de­stroyers should beginne puni­shing at his sanctuary: first pu­nish his Priests, and those that were néerest vnto him. This ordinance of God, is the cause why the iustest men are soonest punished, and this procéeeth [Page 231] from the especiall care of God towards his elect, to put them presently in minde that they erre, least they continue in sin.Hose. 2.6. He doth hedge them in with a hedge of thornes, so that they shall no sooner offer to depart from him, but they shall bee pricked with one punishment or other. As for the wicked, who are incorrigible, he dea­leth otherwise with them, sith they contemne his spirituall graces, and regard them not, but gréedilie desire all worldly pleasures, notwithstanding their wickednesse, because they are his creatures, he will of his mercy, haue thē to enioy some part of his blessings: these earthly blessings which they so gréedily affect, he bestoweth on them, are all the portion of ioyes which euer they [Page 232] shall haue, and therefore it is said, that God filleth their bel­lies with the hid treasures of y^e earth, which treasures are ter­med their portion.Ps. 17.14. All their ioyes are confined wihin the boūds of this present life.Psal. 73. They are lifted vp on high whilest they liue on earth: but sodainly they are cast downe to hell: This point our Sauior Christ plain­ly sheweth in that Parable of Diues. When Diues desired some mitigation of his tormēts in hell, hee had this answere. Sonne, Luc. 16.25 remember that thou in thy life time receauedst thy pleasures, and likewise Lazarus his paines. Now therefore he is comforted, and thou art tormented. These things come not by chance, but by the disposition of God, so placing his blessings, as they may best beséeme his goodnesse, and the [Page 233] good of his creatures, of his méere bounty he ladeth y^e wick­ed with temporall blessings, who nothing regard his spiri­tuall blessings. Againe, hee bestoweth his temporall bles­sings on the godly, but most commonly sparingly, not be­cause it is with him, as it is with earthly princes, the more they bestow, y^e lesse they haue; it is not for want of store of blessings: But first considering the fragility of mans nature, whome abundance of earthly blessings will corrupt, as expe­rience of all time doe make proofe. Therefore to kéepe thē in his obedience, he vseth this sparingnesse of his temporall blessings. Secondly, hée doth not bestowe abundance on the elect, because it becommeth not the persons of them, whom hée [Page 234] hath appointed to bée as Pat­terns and preachers vnto o­thers of patience, temperance, sobriety, continually to liue in pleasures, to fare delitiously, to court it out in gorgious appa­rell; to teach patience, it had not béene so effectuall in Iob, only to haue made a long spéech in the commendations of pati­ence curiously penned, as in déede to suffer the losse of al his substance, his children, and to be tormented in his body. It could not beséeme Iohn y^e Bap­tist a preacher of repentance, to fare deliciously euery day, or braue it out in costly rayment. Not the words only, but espe­cially the déedes of the children of God, must be Sermons vn­to others, to drawe them vnto vertue, and godlinesse. Now, many vertues be of that na­ture, [Page 235] that they cannot well bée shewen in continuall earthly felicity, as valour without an enemie, patience where there is no wrong done, or no aduer­sity happen, prudence and cir­cumspection to preuent euils, if no feare of euill euer hap­pen. Wherefore albeit godly men enioy lesse worldly plea­sures in this present life then y^e vngodly; yet are not the promi­ses of God false, but you mis­conster the true intent of them, not knowing that vnder the name of these blessings mentio­ned in the law, especially spiri­tuall graces are intended, as Ierome, Gregory, Ambrose, and all the Fathers affirme: which spirituall graces, are alwaies in this life performed vnto the elect of God, so farre forth, as they are fit for their vocation, [Page 236] on some more, on some lesse▪ none of them want a sufficient­cy of them to bring them vnto euerlasting life. As for tempo­rall blessings, which are not principally intended, they are so farre forth performed vnto y^e elect (though none of them ca [...] in right challenge any, sith none fulfill the lawe) as they may be meanes towards y^e ob­tayning of those spirituall bles­sings principally intended thē. In that the wicked abound in all earthly blessings, it procée­deth of the long patience, and méere mercy of God. But the euils threatned against them in the law, shall come on them, when they haue ended their wicked race. Now, conter­ning your fourth reason, to prooue falshood in the scripture: God affirmed that hee would [Page 237] help the Israelites no more: Yet cōtrary to this, it is afterward affirmed▪ that hee did againe help thē: in these words there is no cōtradictiō as you imagine. The which y^t you may playne­ly sée, you must cōsider the dou­ble state of the Israelites. First their estate whilest they were Idolaters and gréeuous Apos­tataes from God. In this es­tate and as long as they so con­tinued, God pronounceth that he wil not helpe thē any more. Afterwards, the Israelites re­pented them of their wicked­nesse, and cryed for the mercye of God, and in this penitent estate, he helped them. This misconstruing of the word of God, procéedeth of your igno­rance and rashnesse, they who are not well studied in y^e scrip­ture, may not take vppon them [Page 238] to censure places of y^e scripture, for many places are very hard to be vnderstoode, the which to meddle with is presumption, for those that are not well exer­cised in diuinitie, if you had knowne that generall rule which is sette downe in the Eightéene of Ieremy, where the Lord saith,Ezech. 33.14.15. I will speake sud­denly against a nation or a kingdōe to plucke it vp, aend to roote it out, and to distroye it. But if the nati­on against whome I haue pronoūced turne from their wickednesse, I will repent of the plague that J thought to bring vppon it. And againe, I will speake suddenly concerning a nation or kingdome to build it, and plunt it. But if this nation or king­dome do euill in my sight, and heare not my voice, I will repent of the good that I thought to do for them, when as the Lord holpe the Is­raelites, [Page 239] whom he said he wold not help, y^e Lord was not chan­ged, who alwaies determineth to blesse those that doe well, and punish those who doe ill. But the Israelites were chan­ged, his promises of blessings & threates of punishments in things temporall, are alwaies with exception and so to be vn­derstood, though in euery pro­mise of blessinges, and threat­ning of punishment, the excep­tion be not specified, as with­out exception it was pronoun­ced of Niniueth, yet fortie daies, and Niniueth shall be [...] destroyed, Iona. 3.4. yet was it not destroyed, be­cause they repented, yet the ex­ception of repentance is not mentioned. So likewise, whē as the Lord had afflicted the Is­raelites by the Assirians, vntill they were brought to repen­tance, [Page 240] the Lord saith,Nahum. 1.12. 2. Kin. 25. Ier. 5. & 39 Iere. 18. though I haue afflicted thee, yet will I afflict thee no more. Yet notwithstan­ding afterwards did hee afflict them by the Babilonians, be­cause they continued not in the worshippe of God. The pro­mise was generall, that hee wold not afflict them any more, yet was it to bée expounded ac­cording to that generall rule mentioned in Ieremy. Thus you sée that these places (as al­so there are many more like vn­to these) which séeme to be con­tradictions at the first viewe, out of which, men of peruerse mindes willing to wrangle, may picke matter enough to please their wayward humor, and easilie deceaue themselues and others. God so tempering it, that it should be a stumbling block to mē of peruerse minds. [Page 241] But a light and a comfort to those that are of an humble spi­rit, desirous to know the truth. Thus much concerning your contradictions in the scripture. Now, pray what are those ab­surdities which you speake of in the scripture.

You say, that if there be any absurdity in the Scripture, you will not beleeue the Scrip­ture. I pray tell me this, Is it not absurd, that one man should be punished for another mans fault? Doth not the Scripture teach you, that God will punish the sinne of the Fathers, vppon his children? is this equity? is not this absurd? Againe, the Scripture teacheth you, that no man can be saued but by faith in the merits of Iesus Christ: and yet it cannot be denyed, but that many thowsand thowsands ne­uer [Page 242] heard of Christ, both before the law giuen to Moses, and in the time of the olde Testament, & also since the time of the Gos­pell. Doth God create men to damne them? is this equity? is not this absurd? Of all the peo­ple in the world, he chose only the Iewes before the comming of Christ. Since his comming on­ly they shall be saued, who be­leeue the Gospell: but to many thowsands the Gospell hath not beene preached; and how should they then beleeue it? is not this cruelty, to condemne men for not beleeuing the Gospell, of which they neuer heard? pray answer me this.

Before I answer your first obiection, that God doth not iustly in punishing y^e sinnes of the Fathers vpon their chil­dren; Tel me, if a snake should [Page 243] sting any of your children, and escape, if you should afterward finde y^t snake with his young ones, would you only kill the old snake which stinged your child, & let goe his young ones, or else kill them all?

I would kill them all.

But the young snakes were guiltlesse, they neuer did harme vnto any: this is cruel­ty, to kill the innocent with the hurtfull.

But they may do harme, and will also if they bee suffered to liue, it is their natures so to doe, they cannot alter their hurt­full nature.

Sée how partiall you are in iudgement, you iustifie your selfe in doing that, which in God you account iniustice & cruelty. You thinke you haue reason for your doing, yet you [Page 244] carp at the maiesty of God. Yea though he doth not as you doe, destroy the young snakes which neuer did harme, God doth not punish any that are harmelesse, but only punish the wicked sonnes of wicked pa­rents. For it is not said as you repeate the words, that God will visit the sinnes of the Fa­thers, vpon the third or fourth generation, whether guilty, or guiltlesse; but it is added, on them that hate him. The chil­dren which hate God, are not guiltlesse. Neither are you to vnderstand vnder the name of punishmēt, any kind of punish­ment, but only temporall pu­nishment. For no sinner is damned for the sinne of his fa­ther: for this punishment of e­ternal damnation, no man shal suffer for any mans fault, but [Page 245] his owne: the soule that sinneth, Ezech. 18. shall die. Furthermore, God doth not punish with temporall punishments the wicked sons of wicked parents, with grea­ter punishments for the sinnes of their Fathers, then their owne sinnes doe iustly deserue. But in this respect God is said to punish the wicked sonnes of wicked parents vnto the third and fourth generation, because God apointeth vnto euery na­tion, citie, and familie, a time to continue, before he powreth out his wrath vpon them, vntil they haue filled vp that mea­sure of sinnes, and growne so obstinate in sinne as God hath appointed, then no longer to suffer them. So that if the fa­ther of a wicked sonne had not sinned, God would longer haue deferred the punishment of his [Page 246] wicked sonne. The way for parents to haue their posterity to continue long and prosper, is to abstaine from sinne: for in sinning, they hasten the ru­ine of their posterity. Further­more, in this punishing of the sinnes of the Fathers vpon y^e children, vnto the third and fourth generation; not only the sonne, but also the Father is punished too. When God af­flicteth the sonne, the father is grieued oftentimes more then the sonne, to sée his sonne in trouble, vexatiō, or tormented with diseases, or suffer losse of goods, and liue in misery. Ex­amples hereof, wee haue both in prophane, and diuine histo­ries: Dauid wished that hee had died for his rebellious son Absolon. And Appian in his history of the ciuill warres of [Page 247] the Romanes, in the fearefull times of proscription sheweth, what great care parents had towards their children, ventu­ring their owne liues to saue their sonnes. God in punishing the sinnes of the Fathers vpon the children; not only hereby calleth the sonnes to repentāce; but also the Fathers: and this is the reason, that God puni­sheth the sinnes of the Fathers vpon the children, no further then vnto the fourth generati­on; because vsually, no father liueth longer then that he may sée any of his posterity, after y^t fourth generation. After this fourth generation, no affliction laid on his posterite, can bring him to repentance. For repen­tance cannot be but in this life. Seing therefore, that such are the ardent affections euen of [Page 248] wicked parents towards their children, that they as much, yea oftentimes more desire to see their children to liue in prospe­rity, then themselues, (God knowing their inordinate loue, that they loue their children more then God himselfe.) Hée therefore threatneth wicked parents y^t he will punish their children for their sinne: that if for loue or feare of him, they will not abstaine from sinne, yet they might feare to offend God for loue of their children; and the more to incite fathers vnto godlinesse, he doth promise good fathers, (that is, such as vnfaynedly doe their endeuour to liue according to Gods com­mandements) that he wil blesse their childrē to a thowsand ge­nerations, in them that feare him. This being so, you vn­iustly [Page 249] accuse God of iniustice in punishing the sinnes of the Fathers vpon their children: sith these temporall punish­ments doe not excéede the de­sert of their owne proper sins. Nay, if you well consider this māner which God vseth in pu­nishing the sinnes of the Fa­thers vpon the childred, you shal find that God dealeth most mercifully herein. For first, in y^e God prolongeth his punish­ment, he giueth time & space to the father to repent, which if he doe, neither father, nor sonne suffereth punishment. Second­ly, in this kind of punishing, God calleth both father & sonne to repentance: but especially the father, in a more fit time to repentance, then if hee should presently lay some temporall punishment on him, as soone [Page 250] as he offendeth: for more head­strong are men in their youth to take their pleasure in sinne, then in their olde age; they will fulfill their lusts then, though they smart for it. But in older yeares, their affections are not so vehement; then are they more considerate in their acti­ons, and fitter to receaue corre­ction. If God then call them to repentance, they will not be so vnrulie. Wherefore most vniustly you terme this kind of punishing, absurd and vniust dealing. Now, concerning your second absurdity, which you would gather out of the Scripture, because the Scrip­ture teacheth vs, that none can be saued, except they be­léeue in Christ: Of whome, many before the lawe giuen to Moses, and in the time of the [Page 251] old law, and since the time of the Gospell neuer heard of; and that before the time of the Gospell, God chose only the nation of the Iewes, reiecting all other people, and since on­ly the beléeuers: and out of this, you conclude, God to bée cruell and vniust, to create mē, and then condemn them for not obseruing the law of Moses, of which they neuer hard, and for not beléeuing in him, of whom they neuer hard. For answere hereof, you must knowe, that God saueth men after two mā ­ner of waies, ordinarily, and extraordinarily. Now, when as the Scripture teacheth vs, that none can bée saued except they beléeue in Christ, it is to be vnderstood only of those mē: vnto whom y^t ordinary means of saluation haue béene reuea­led, [Page 252] except the fault be in them­selues, that these meanes were not known vnto them. Wher­fore Children, who are not ca­pable of these ordinary means, are saued without this actuall faith in Christ. Neither shall any being of yeares and discre­tion, euer be condemned for not beléeuing expreslye in the me­rits ot Christ, if he neuer heard of Christ. If his ignorance be such, as by his diligence he cold not come to the knowledge of Christ. Neither shal any of the Gentiles to whome the law of Moses was not knowne, be cō ­demned for not obseruing the law of Moses, and y^t many men were accepted of God, before e­ther Moses, or y^e law giuē to him was euer hard of, it is most ma­nifest; as Abell, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Iacob, & Ioseph, and many [Page 253] thousands moe. Who although they had not the writtē law of Moses, yet had they a lawe no­thing differing from the law of Moses, euen y^e law of reasō and conscience, w^t was written in their harts, y^t ground of w^t law our sauiour mentioneth, affir­ming, y^t in substance, it differeth nothing frō the law of Moses. Mat. 7.12. Whatsoeuer ye would that men shold do vnto you, euen so do ye vnto thē. For this is the whole lawe and the Prophets. This compendious and short Bible wee haue al­waies about vs, written in our harts; by y^e which if we square our actions, we shall neuer doe amisse. By the direction only of this law, (I exclude not the internall operation of the holye spirit in the hearts of men: For without it, though wée had all the directions vnto godlynesse [Page 254] in the old and new testament by heart, yet it would nothing profit vs) all the godly men be­fore the law of Moses pleased God, who alwaies beléeued the redemption of mankind, by the séede of y^e woman, being taught this, either by tradition from Adam and their forefathers, or els by speciall reuelation. For the goodnesse of God (no doubt) in reueling those things which pertayned to their saluation, was no lesse before the time of Moses, then after the time of Moses vnto the Prophets. Nay in probabilitie God then more vsuallye by speciall reuelation directed those that worshipped him, because they had then no written law to direct them, as wée now haue, and that this mistery of saluation by the séed of the woman, was knowne [Page 255] vnto thē, their sacrifices which they offered vnto God, do easily shew. Wherefore most false is that which you saye, that God chose onely the nation of the Iewes, and reiected all peo­ple else. I confesse that the Iews held this for a truth, that onely the circumcised could be saued, & all other damned,Act. 10.34 35. of y^e which opiniō also was y^e Apos­tle Peter vntil he was better in­structed, But it was onely a tradition of their elders, their law taught them not this, they were commanded not to ioyne league or familiaritie with the people of Canaan, but destroye them. But after all the Cana­anites were destroyed, they thought it vnlawfull to haue a­ny dealing with the vncircum­cised, and héerein they erred. True it is, that God chese of [Page 256] all the nations in the world, onely the Iewes, but to what? not to saluation, for many of the Gentiles were elected to this, aswell as the Iewes: but to bee Preists and instructers to the world, to bée examples and guides to worshippe God, to all people. For as Aaron and his Sonnes, amongst the Iewes, were separated from o­ther tribes, to bée holy vnto the Lord, and to be preists and in­structors to their brethren: So the whole nation of the Iewes were separated from all other nations, to bée priests vnto all nations, and to be, as the Apos­tle saith of them,Rom 2.17 18.19. guides of the blind, and as lightes to them which sit in darknes, instructors of them which lack discretion, and teachers of them which are vnlearned. So that this choyce of the Iewes [Page 257] out of other nations, is not to be vnderstood of choice to salua­tion, as if God excluded all o­ther nations from saluation; but only of their preheminence aboue others: on whome he would shew greater fauour thē vnto other nations, in giuing them his written lawes, which as a Candle might lighten the darkenesse of their vnderstan­ding: other nations might well be sayd to sit in darkenesse, incō ­parison of the Iewes,2. Pet. 1.19. because they wanted this light of the written word of God, and that this their choice, was onelye a choyce of preheminēce aboue o­ther nations, the very woordes which God vseth in chusing them, maketh most manifest. If (saith the Lord to the Iews) you will heare my voice indeed, Exod. 19.5.6. 1. Pet. 2.1.6. and keepe my couenants, then shall ye be [Page 258] my cheefe treasure aboue all people, though all the earth bee mine, yee shal be also vnto a kingdōe of preists, and a holie nation. Now, in say­ing that they shall be his chéefe treasure: God insinuateth al­so, that other nations are his treasure, But the Iewes his chéefe treasure, and that vp­pon condition too, If they in déed kéepe his cōmandements. And further, hee sheweth to what purpose and dutie he choo­seth them: To be preists vnto him, to set foorth his glorie by them to all nations: And this is the reasō why alwaies (whē they offended God) he vsed for their punishment,Tobit. 1 3. to giue them into y^e hands of their enemies, and scatter them amongst the nations, that the natiōs might learne of them the knowledge of the true God. When they [Page 259] had them in captiuitie, and thē were the Iewes most fit to teach others, both by their life and doctrine, when by captiui­tie they were humbled: & this kind of punishment was so v­suall, that the heathen people obserued it, as it appeareth by the aduise of Achior to Holofer­nes, Saying,Iudit. 5.18 that God vsed to giue thē into the hands of their enemies to bée led captiues, if they offend him; and if you ex­amine this matter well, you shall find, that no nation vnder heauē haue euer béen scattered abroad into so many countries, nor so oftē, as haue bin y^e Iews, whereby it came to passe, that the knowledge of God was spread abroade throughout all lands. So that, (as the Apos­tle saith,) By the fall of the Iews, Rom. 11.11.12. saluation came to the Gentiles, and [Page 260] riches to the world. Further­more, God did not so giue his written lawe vnto the Iewes, as that hee excluded any from y^e knowledge and benefite of it, but whosoeuer would, of what nation soeuer hee was, might be partaker of this benefite as well as the Iewes; and this point, that the Iewes should not exclude any from the know­ledge of the law of Moses, is ex­presly set downe in the lawe of Moses, Exod. 12.48. the words are these. If a stranger dwell with thee, and will obserue the passouer, let him circū ­cise all the males that belong vnto him, and then let him come and ob­serue it: and hee shall bee as one that is borne in the Land. Which Gentiles, albeit they might not celebrate the passeo­uer with the Iewes, except they were circumcised (according to [Page 261] the law before mentioned) yet might they come into the vt­most part of the temple to wor­ship: and their prayers and ob­lations were no lesse accepted of, then were the prayers of the Iewes. Which is hereby ma­nifest, in that Salomon, when he had built the temple, amōgst other petitions which in his prayer he maketh to God, pray­eth to God, that if any stranger come from a farre countrey, 1. King. 8.41.42.43. which is not of the people of Israel, & pray vnto him, that God would graunt their petitions in whatsoeuer they aske: In which prayer of Salo­mon, this is especially to be no­ted, that he prayeth to God to heare the prayers of the Iewes, with condition, if they take heed to obserue the lawes of the Lord. But praying for the Gentiles, he addeth no condition of ob­seruing [Page 262] the lawes of God. The reason hereof is,Pet. Mart. in Reg. 8.41. because the Iewes had his written lawes; & therefore they ought to do their endeuour to obey them. But the gentiles had not; and there­fore this condition of obseruing his laws was not added. Now, you must know, that Salomon prayed, being directed by the spirit of God. The Gentiles therefore, were more likely to be heard in their prayers then the Iewes, because no exception of obtayning is added in their prayers: as in his prayer for the Iewes. Now, that y^e Iewes admitted all men of what nati­on so euer they were to come & dwell amongst them according to the forementioned law, it is most manifeh in the Acts of the Apostles,Ex. 12.48. Act. 2.5.4 where it is said that there were dwelling at Ierusalem, [Page 263] Iewes which came to worshippe at Ierusalem, out of all nations vnder heauen. Who were tearmed Iewes, not because they were borne Iewes, but because they were borne of Iewish parents, and not onely such strangers who were discended from Iews, but also Gentiles, as Romans, and other Prosilites, who were conuerted from Gentilisme vn­to the Iewes religion. Further­more,Act. 2.10. they were especially cō ­manded to vse strangers kind­ly. Nay further,Deut. 23.7.8. 2. Sam. 24.18. Iosua. 15.63. their law cō ­mandeth to admit strangers to dwell amongst them, and that many of the Gentiles dwelt a­mongst them, mention is made in diuers places of the Scrip­ture. Besides this, the Gen­tiles which dwelt a far off, re­sorted vnto the Iewes to be in­structed, and to worshippe at [Page 264] Ierusalem, 1. Kin. 10. Math. 12.42. as the Quéene She­ba with a great traine with her; the chéefe gouernour of Candaces Queene of Ethiopia; Yea diuers Kings gaue great reuenewes to the Iewes to pray vnto God for them. Yea, not onely the Gentiles came vnto y^e Iewes, to learne the knowledge of the true God, but also the Iewes willingly remained and dwelt amongst the Gentiles, by whom the Gentiles learned the knowledge of the true God: as it is manifest, when Cyrus gaue leaue to al the Iewes to returne to their Countrey, many of thē would not, but chose rather to dwel amongst the Gentiles, thē returne, and that the Iewes had Synagogues almost in euerie nation,Act 13.1. Act. 14.1. (where they taught all commers their religion.) It is most manifest in verye manye [Page 265] places of the Scripture, and their double diligence in ma­king Proselites, and conuerting others to their religion, not on­ly our Sauiour Christ noteth, but also the heathen people as­cribed vnto them, as a fault. Our Sauiour saith of them, Yee compasse sea and land to make one of your profession, Math. 23.15. and when hee is made, yee make him two-fold, more the child of hell, then your selues. For though they vsed extraordinary paines to winne men vnto their religion, yet herein they marred all. First, in that they more vrged their owne traditions, then y^e word of God. Secondly, they liued so lewdly, that many of their well disposed conuerts tooke of­fence thereat, and returned to their Gentilisme againe, and thereby became two-fold, the [Page 266] children of hell more then they were before.2. Pet. 2.14 For better it had béene for them neuer to haue knowne the way of truth, then after they had knowne it, to turne from it, This double di­ligence in making Prosilites y^t heathen reprooued in them, be­cause they were herein so vio­lent, that they rather constray­ned men, then perswaded them to be of their religion, as the Poet saith: Ac velut, te Iudei cogemus in hanc concedere turbā. Horat. li. 1. satyr. 4. Iuuenal. sa­tyr. 14. Now, besides this knowledge which the heathen had of God by the meanes of the Iewes, God vsed many other meanes to instruct them, sometimes instructing them by him selfe, as he did Abraham, Isaac, and Iacob; Sometime by the mini­stery of Angels; somtimes by dreames, as Pharao, and Na­bucodonoser; [Page 267] sometimes by meanes vnknowne vnto vs. For who knoweth how Mel­chisedek came to y^e knowledge of God, who not only knewe God, but also was a Priest of the high God? Now, being a King, and a Priest, we cannot imagine, but that he endeauou­red to make his subiects of his religion. And it is absurd to think that he alone knew God. Who knoweth by what meanes Henock and his sons came to the knowledge of God aboue other men? Whose sons were termed for a long time, the sonnes of God, Gen. 5.22. Gen. 6.2. because their fa­ther Henock liued so innocent­ly, and so godly amongst wic­ked persons, that he séemed ra­ther to be a God, then a man. How came Ietro to be a Priest of the most high God, and to [Page 268] thinke him a Priest without people, whom he taught were absurd. No doubt, but the Ni­niuites had a kind of knowledge of the true God, else would they not haue repented in sack-cloth and ashes, at once preaching by a stranger. Though the Gen­tiles erred herein, in thinking that there were many Gods; yet they thought that there was one chiefe God aboue al y^e rest, whome they feared aboue the rest: and that they all stoode in feare of that one God aboue y^e rest. It is manifest by diuers places of the Scripture, this God whome they feared aboue the rest, was termed by y^e Gen­tiles, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Iacob, before the time of Moses; afterwards, they ter­med him the God of the Iewes. For proofe hereof, yee may re­member, [Page 269] that when King Abi­milech had taken away Abra­hams wife, the God of Abrahā commādeth him to restore her againe.Gen. 20. He worshipped other Gods, on whose protection hée would haue relied and detay­ned Sarah still, if hee had not feared the God of Abraham a­boue all the rest of his supposed Gods. The feare of this God made Abimilech to desire to bée in league with Isaac. Genes. 26.28. For the prophane people found this by experience, that God blessed those that were at league with them, and that no man prospe­red, or preuayled against them. Laban was an Idolater, and put his trust in many Gods, yet when the God of Iacob cō ­manded him to desist from his malicious purpose against Ia­cob, he obeyed for feare,Genes. 31.24. and not [Page 270] for loue. When Dauid pursu­ed after the Amalekites, who had taken his two wiues pri­soners, and could not find thē; in searching for them, hee fin­deth an Egiptian boy, one of their company: This youth was brought vp in théeuing, & robbing; he would by no means confesse where his company was, except Dauid wold sweare vnto him by God, that he wold not kill him, or deliuer him to his master. When Dauid had sworne vnto him, then without feare he conducted them to the Amalekites. 1. Sam. 30.15. This youth (whō Galuin commenting vpon that place, calleth halfe a beast for his ignorance) had a greater and more religious estimati­on of an oath taken in y^e name of God, then very many who now profes the name of Christ. [Page 271] He thought that no man would be so impious, as to abuse the name of God. Infinite it were to reckon vp all the proofes w^t make for this purpose Where­fore you sée how farre you are deceaued to thinke that God chose only the Iewes to saluati­on, and reiected all the nations else in the world; and since the Gospel none saued, except they beléeued the Gospell, though they neuer heard of it. Wée may not thinke so, for (as the Apostle saith) he is a God as well of the Gentiles, as the Iewes. Rom. 3. And he euer had his elect through­out all the world amongst all nations whatsoeuer. It is said of the Sodomites, Genes. 13.13. that they were exceeding wicked. Insomuch, y^t when the Scripture would ex­presse sinners in the highest de­grée, they are compared to the [Page 272] Sodomites: Esay. 1.10. as Esay termed the most wicked Iewes, Sodomites. Likewise doth Ieremy, Lamē. 4.6. Ezech. 16.48. and E­zechiell. Yet in this so wicked a citie, euen at the time shée came to the height of her abho­minations, God had his elect in it, Lot and his family; and in the time of Noah, when mē were so excéeding wicked, that it repented God, that hee had made man. Yet euen then, had God his elect amongst them, e­uen Noah, his wiues and his sonnes, [...]. 8. Gen. 7.1. 2. Pet. 2.5. yea God himself giueth testimony of Noah, that he was a righteous man, and he was not only righteous himselfe, but he was also a preacher of righteous­nesse vnto others. Now, if God had his elect in this so abhomi­nable a Citie, and in so abho­minable times, surely, we may not but think, that he had many [Page 273] more of his elect in other pla­ces, and at other times which are not noted of any extraordi­nary impiety. And albeit it cannot be denyed, but that ma­ny of the nations liued in great ignorance; yet it cannot be de­nyed also, but that God is as well y^e Creator of the ignorant, as the wise; and that hée hath a fatherly care ouer al mankind, and beareth with their weake­nesse,Psal. 103.13.14. considering of what met­tle they are made. And that on whome hee hath bestowed little, he will require but little. And that hee vseth great com­passion on these sillie ignorant soules. Which is most manifest by his answer vnto Ionas, who murmured against him for spa­ring y^e Niniuites, replyed,Ionas. 4.11 Should I not spare Niniueh that great city, wherein are six score thousand per­sons [Page 274] that cannot discerne betweene their right hand and their left hand? Yea such is the excéeding good­nesse of God, that those sinnes which we commit of ignorāce, he doth not impute vnto vs, & this was the cause why Christ our Sauiour prayed for those who ignorantly crucified him, (being seduced by the malice of the Scribes and Pharisces, and Elders; taking him not to be the Messias, but to be a seducer of the people) saying,Luk. 23.34 Father for­giue them, for they know not what they doe. God vseth a different iudgement according to the difference of men, they that haue receaued the knowledge of the lawe and the Gospell,Iohn. 5.45 he will iudge according to the law and the Gospell;Rom. 3.19 Rom. 2.15 they who neuer heard of the lawe or the Gospell,Reu. 20.13 he will not iudge them [Page 275] thereby, but by their conscien­ces.Vide Dio­nis. Carth. in Heb. 11.6 Perkins in his tract of conscience To these men the igno­rance of the lawe and the Gos­pell is not sinne, but a conse­quent of sinne, as learned men holde, if they know not what is commanded in the lawe or the Gospell; if they doe it not, to thē it is not imputed as sinne. For as S. Iames saith, To him that knoweth how to doe well, Iam. 4.17. and doth it not, to him it is sinne.

Now surely, if igno­rance be a cause why God will not impute my sinnes vnto me, I am sory that euer I saw the Bi­ble; I am sory that euer I went to Church, or heard Sermons: and hence forward, I wil neuer come to Church any more, (keeping my selfe out of the compasse of the law) and I will doe my best endeauour to forget all that I haue learned. For (if there be a [Page 276] God that will iudge me) by this meanes I shal haue the lesse to an­swere for.

Sée how you gather out of my words, that which I af­firme not. I say not that igno­rance is the cause why God wil not impute those sinnes which we commit of ignorance; but that God in his mercy will not impute them. Whereas you say that you are sory that euer you saw the Bible, came to Church, ar heard Sermōs: In­déede you haue great cause to be sory, except you make better vse of it; and better it were not to know the wil of God,2. Pet. 2.21. then knowing it, not to obserue it (as I haue said before) the know­ledge of it, is eitheir a sauour of death vnto death, or a sauour of life in all men. Whereas you say, you will doe your best en­deuour [Page 277] hereafter to forget that you know, Therein you doe as foolishly, as if a man know­ing that he is to passe through a dangerous way, full of stum­bling blocks, would blindfold hsmselfe, least he shold sée what he might stumble at. To bring you out of your errour therfore, When I say that God hath cō ­passion on the ignorance of mē, and wil not deale extreamly w^t them, who of ignorance offend, I vnderstand not al kind of ig­norāce. Diuines distinguish of ignorance, One kind of igno­rance they call vinsibilis, which by diligence may bee auoided. The other inuinsibilis, which by no diligence can bee auoyded. The former kind also is of di­uers sorts one more pardonable then y^e other. The ignorance, which commeth by the imheci­litie [Page 278] of nature, which is the ig­norance of those, whome wée cōmonly call Innocents, and y^e ignorance w^c commeth by reasō of the difficulty of the things to be vnderstoode, or by the small means to attaine to the know­ledge of things to be known, is most pardonable, yet sins they are, els God wold not haue ap­pointed sacrifices for them. But affected ignorance voluntarily vsed, is most dangerous: and he w^c vseth it, is no lesse culpable of his own damnation, then he which voluntarilye abstayneth frō foode & pineth himselfe to death, is guilty of his own deth. For as y^e one is appointed as a means to cōtinue mās life, so y^e other is appoynted as a means to obtaine life euerlasting. And as we are to labour for the one, so also for the other, otherwise [Page 279] are we guiltie of our owne des­truction. As for the other kind of ignorance, which Diuines call inuinsibilis, such as by no meanes can be auoided, is not taken for a sinne, but a conse­quent of sin (as I haue said be­fore.) So that the heathen who neuer by any means could heare of Christ, offend not, in not beléeuing in Christ expresly. Yet in y^t they naturally knowe that there is a God, and that he is a rewarder of those that doe well: By consequent they ac­knowledge his prouidence, and by consequence hereof, they be­léeue that God hath a meanes to saue their soules, though the meanes thereof be vnknowne to them. To this their general beléefe in God, I adde vnto their naturall knowledge of God, the internall operation of [Page 280] the holy Ghost, whereby they are brought, as to knowe God by discourse of reason, so to loue and obay God by the inspirati­on of the holy ghost. Now, al­beit the knowledge of these he­then men, be in comparison of the knowledg of those, to whōe the law and the gospell haue béen reuealed, but as smoke in comparison of the brightnesse and light of a burning torch, and as a bruised réed in cōpari­son of y^e great Cedars of Liba­nus in strength.Esay. 42.3. Vide Cal­uinū in hūc locum. Perkins in his refor­med Catho­like. Point. 16. Yet god in his great goodnesse in Christ, will not breake these bruised réedes, nor quench this smoking flaxe. God respecteth not so much the degrée of perfection in these men, as the sinceritie of their affection & loue towardes him, who would worshippe him in truth, if they knewe the truth, [Page 281] differing not frō those of know­ledge in affection, but erring onely in the circumstance of worshipping God. When Da­uid persued after the Amale­kites (who had taken his twoo wiues prisoners) in persuite af­ter them, twoo hundred of his men were so tyred, that they were not able to passe ouer the riuer Besor, therefore Dauid left them behind, and with the rest passed the riuer, ouertooke the Amalekites, preuailed against them, and tooke all their spoile, then he returned to those twoo hundred men, which he left be­hind, whome he would make partakers of the spoyle which he had taken from the Amale­kites. 1. Sam. 30 22. But (as the text termeth them) certaine wicked men withstood him, Saying, that it was not reason, that they who [Page 282] strucke neuer a stroke agaynst their enimies, should partici­pate of the spoyle. Notwith­standing Dauid indued with y^e spirit of God, deuided the spoile equally amongst all his souldi­ers, accepting the endeauour of the weakest, as much as the strength of the strongest. So shurely, God accepteth of that which men haue, and not exac­teth of them that which is be­yond their abilitie, they accor­ding to their abilitie doe their endeauour to please him. As for their other defects, hee for Christs merits pardoneth, thus much concerning your suppo­sed absurdities. Now let vs heare your manifest falshoodes in the scripture, or else if you can except agaynst any thing that hath béen spoken, replie.

Replye? Why by such [Page 283] interpretations you may make a­ny thing true. If these places are thus to bee vnderstoode, why are they not in plaine termes so easilie set down, that euery man might vnderstand them, doth God delight to make men erre? But because you shall not here­after thus wind out of matters; I will now instance in such plaine and euident places of the scrip­ture, that you cannot deny with­out impudencie, but that they are most false, since in your selfe you haue by experience prooued thē to be so, the places are these, where Christ saith; Ioh. 15. Verily I say vnto you, if you aske any thing in my name of my Father, Math. 21. he will giue it you; and in an other place aske what you wil, and it shal be giuen you; and in an other place, all things whatsoeuer you aske, not in doubting, ye shall receiue. [Page 284] I must beleeue that I shall haue them, els I shall not receiue thē. And hereupon, when I liued here in Oxford, in very meane & base estate (yet I confesse, I neuer bore a base mind) it greiued me much, I was very desirous to be advan­ced. Therefore at that time thin­king those words of Christ true, in a blind simplicity, I praied lōg and often, to be in better estate. But for all my deuotions, I was neuer the better. When I sawe that, I began a better course to prouide for my selfe, and vsed such meanes whereby now I am in good estate, and I meane to better it. Had I not taken this course heere in Oxford, I might haue yet beene praying and be­leeuing, and neuer the better. And if you will not beleeue mee, beleeue your owne experience. This being so; why should I take [Page 285] that for truth, which all men by experience in themselues and o­thers haue alwaies found to bee most false.

Whereas you say, that by interpretations I may make any thing true: it is not so. No interpretations can make that which is indéed true to bee false, or y^t which is false, true. Words cannot alter the natures of things, and make truth, falshood; or falshood, truth. Whereas in scorne you de­maund, whether God doth de­light to make men erre, because manye thinges in the Scrip­ture are hard to be vnderstoode. You are to knowe, that God hath appointed a generall daye of iudgement, wherin the déeds of all men shall bée iudged, in the presence of men and An­gels. And therfore before hand [Page 286] hath so tempered things, that all men in their déeds might shew what they are. When the Lord gaue the land of Ca­naan vnto the children of Israell, he might haue destroyed all the Cananites, when hee brought the Israelites first into the land.Iudg. 3. But hee did not, that by those Cananites which were left aliue in the Land,Deut. 15. the hearts of the Israelites might be manifested: To trye whe­ther they would be drawen to Idolatrye: To trye whether they would enter into league and familiarity or no with the Cananites, the which was pre­cisely forbidden them. So like­wise, God could haue made the scripture in all places so easie, that it should nor néede anye interpreter. But he hath not, to trie the hearts of men. These [Page 287] hard places of y^e scripture, they who are of an humble spirit, séeke to vnderstand with humi­litie & reuerence. Because god hath cōmanded them to read y^e scriptures, & make it their stu­dye, that out of it, they might knowe what is his will. All they therfore, who are desirous to obay his will, will reade his word, y^t they might know what his will is, reuealed in his woord, that they may doe it, and obserue it. If they méete with any difficult place to bée vnderstood, they will not pre­sume to censure it, or as you, & the like, draw it to an absurdi­ty: but acknowledge y^t weak­nesse of their capacitie. They learne out of the Scriptures, that many things there in con­tained are not written for eue­ry mans vnderstanding, but are [Page 288] reserued vnto their due time, in which God hath appointed thē to be vnderstood, as many pro­phesies both in the olde Testa­mēt and the new.Dan. 12.9. The vnder­stāding whereof is not known before the things prophesied of are performed. That men comparing y^e euents of thinges with the former Prophesies, might sée that things come not to passe by chance, since such e­uents were foretold, that they should come to passe manye yeares before they fell out. Therefore they make vse of those things which they vnder­stand. As for those thinges w^t passe their vnderstanding, they reuerence, and not censure them. Now, whereas you condemne the scripture of ma­nifest falshood, because you haue not obtayned by you prayers, [Page 289] whatsoeuer you haue asked; because it is said in the Scrip­ture, aske what you will belée­uing, and yee shall obtaine it. The promise is most true, but by you much mistaken. For this promise is made onely vn­to the true beléeuers. Now, many there are who vaynelye perswade themselues, that they are true beléeuers, who indéed are not. Who pray after their māner, but not as they should, and they obtaine not. And no maruaile, for the promise per­taineth not vnto such men. Wherfore to shew your errour in construing these promises; You are to consider many cir­cumstances requisite to obtain that which you pray for. The first and principall is, that that which you pray for, you serious­ly without hipocrisie, intend to [Page 290] vse vnto the glory of God. Se­condly, many things are requi­red in the person which pray­eth. Many thinges, in the things prayed for, or the per­sons for whome wée pray for, and in respect of God, to whom we pray. In the person which prayeth, first, he must be in charitte, hee must forgiue all men, else he obtaineth not, ex­cept you forgiue men their tres­passes,Mat. 6.15. my father which is in Heauen will not forgiue you your trespasses.Ia. 1.6.7. He must pray in faith not doubting, not that hee shall receaue euerye thing without exception whatsoeuer he asketh (for this cannot stand with a true faith.) But that God is able and will performe any thing which wee aske of him, so farre foorth, as those things we aske shalbe behooue­ful [Page 291] for vs and fit for our calling and place wherein God hath appointed vs to liue in. Again, if we looke that God shold har­ken vnto our prayers, we may not bee stained with grosse and hainous sinnes.Esay. 1.15. For the prai­ers of the wicked are an abho­mination vnto the Lord. Yea their prayers are tourned vnto sinne. Hee must lift vp pure hands vnto the Lord;1. Tim. 2. Hee must not be cruelly minded, or hard harted. For it is sayd, y^t he which shutteth his eare at the crie of the poore, he shall crye and not be heard.Prou. 21. He must not be of an obstinat and stubborne mind, but ready and willing to obay the commaundements of the Lord. For it is said,Pro. 28.9. hée that tourneth his eare from hearing the law, euen his prai­er shall be abhominable. But [Page 292] the prayer of the iust auaileth much.1. Pet. 5. Iust they are estéemed, who haue a serious endeauour without hipocrisie, to followe and obay the commandements of God; though they fall Sea­uen times, yea many times a day. These and the like are required in the persons which may obtayne that which they aske for. So likewise, many things are to be considered in the things we pray for. The things for which we pray to God, are in generall of twoo sorts, ether they are good things which we desire to obtaine; Or else they are euill things from which we desire to be fréed frō. Again, y^e things which are good, are of two sorts. Either they are simply good, such as cannot be abused; As faith, hope, cha­ritie, forgiuenesse of sins, eter­nal [Page 293] life: Or els they are in part good, such as may be well vsed, or abused vnto ill purposes. Of this kind are the naturall gifts of the body and mind, as the strength of the body comelines, and beautifulnes, sharpenesse, and quicknes of wit, learning, eloquence. Of this kind also are they, which the Philoso­phers call bona fortuna, as riches honour, & promotion, and such like. The former kind of good things which are good in them­selues, we may absolutely without exception praye vnto God for, y^t he would bestow thē on vs. The latter kind of good things, which are such which maye bee vsed vnto ill pur­poses, we may not absolute­lye pray for without exception. But so farre forth as they may [Page 294] be meanes and furtherances towards the obtayning of the former kind of good things: so that if any man prayeth for thefe latter kind of good things without exception, (as name­ly, if the obtayning of thē, may stand with the glory of God, his prouidence whereby before the foundations of the world, hee hath appointed vnto euery man such graces as are fit for y^e persons of such estate, wher­in he hath appointed them to liue.) Hee prayeth not as hee ought to pray, neither hath hee which prayeth thus without exception for these kindes of good things, any promise in all the Scripture, that he shall ob­tayne them. As for the former sort of good things, whosoeuer prayeth for thē without excep­tion in a true faith, hath euen [Page 295] at the time of his faithful pray­ers, as much as will be suffici­ent for him, to bring him to e­ternall life. For whome God once loueth, he loueth for euer; and on whome once he bestow­eth these kinde of graces, (w^t Diuines call gratum facientes) hee alwaies continueth them vntill they enter into the ioyes of heauen. Now, as y^e things w^t are good, are of two sorts, for which we must pray for af­ter a different manner: so like­wise the things which are euil, (from which wee desire to bee fréed from) are of two sorts. And likewise we must make a difference of them in our pray­ers. The things which are e­uill, are either absolutely euill, or euill in part: Absolutely e­uill, are all manner of sinnes; euils in part, are al māner of e­uils [Page 296] of punishments; as y^e sub­uersion of Countries, Cities, diseases, losse of goods & such like, It is our dutie to pray vnto God, that hee would free vs from sinne, and this we may pray for without exception. As for the other sort of euils, which are tearmed mala poenae, euils of punishment; we may not pray for to be deliuered from them but with exception, because these euils are great meanes, to kéepe vs in true humility, in a true acknowledgement of our owne weakensse and infirmi­ty, to kéepe vs in continuall feare and worshippe of God. They cause vs to pray vnto God hartily for his ayde, and in a word, they are very great meanes to bring vs to y^e king­dome of God.2. Cor. 12. [...]. This was the cause that when as Paul pray­ed [Page 297] vnto God, that that messen­ger of Satan which was sent vnto him to buffet him, (least he should be high minded, or be exalted aboue measure,) he ob­tayned not his petition, for it was not conuenient for him, but receaued this answere of God, that his grace was suffi­cient for him, and that his power is made perfect through weaknesse. Lastly, in respect of God, we are to consider his prouidence, wee are not to ex­pect that we should obtayne a­ny thing which he hath in his prouidence disposed of other­wise. An obedient sonne may pray for his father lying sicke, that God would prolong his dayes; but oftentimes hee ob­tayneth not his good desire, be­cause God in his prouidence hath determined y^t his father [Page 298] should thē end his dayes. These and the like conditions neces­sarily being required in y^e per­sons who pray, and the things prayed for, it is no meruaile, though you prayed often, and yet obtayned not,Iam. 4.3. because you prayed for those things, which you would spend on your lusts, you respecting nothing Gods glory in those things you pray­ed for, but your owne aduance­ment. Nay rather, your pray­er was a murmuring against God, and not a prayer. For you were discōtented with your meane estate, and (to vse your owne wordes) if God would not aduance you, you would prouide for your selfe. Al men naturally desire to be in high estate, and if euery one of vs might by prayer obtaine what­soeuer we list, we would be all [Page 299] at the least Kings. But this cannot stand with the ordināce of God, nor with the generall good of all mankind, as neces­sary it is for a common wealth, that there should bee different degrees & states of men, as it is for mans body to haue diuers members of diuers functions. If all the members should be the head, where should bée tha stomacke to nourish the head? If all should be the stomacke, where should the head and the hands be, to prouide meate for y^e stomacke? The Ploughmā is as necessary for y^e common wealth, as the noble Councel­lor; the one cannot be without the other. This being so, who­soeuer murmureth at that e­state wherein God hath placed him, doth more offend, thē that member of the body which re­fuseth [Page 300] to doe his function, be­cause it is not placed in a more eminent place. Besides this, it may be also, you were not in perfect charity with all men, or y^t you were stayned with some grieuous sinnes. And if it were so, then euen your prayers were an abhomination vnto the Lorde, much lesse might you looke to obtayne your de­sire.

O Sir, this is a good doctrine. If the prayers of those who are out of charity with some one or other; or whose liues are spotted with a fewe crimes, be an abhomination vnto God. (as you shall finde the most part of men to bee faultie herein, if you dulie examine their liues) better it were a great deale, that the most part of men should not pray at all vnto God. For their [Page 301] prayers are an abhomination vn­to God, and doe displease him. What is this else, but to disswade men from praying when they haue offended?

Surely, whether most mē be out of charity with some one or other, and their liues stayned with crimes, I knowe not; but if it be so, then I would exhort such men being out of charity, or stayned with grie­uous sinnes, rather to abstaine from prayer, vntil they serious­ly without hypocrisie frō their heart, forgiue all men, and also should seriously repent them of their sinnes, with a full deter­mination to leaue them of, and if they haue taken any thing from any man by forged cauil­lation, or oppression, that they make restitution of it, if it be in their power, else they wil be so [Page 302] farre from obtayning their petitions,Psal. 109. that their very prayer will bée turned vnto sinnes.

What, will it not bee sufficient for a man to pray in faith, in charity, after he hath re­pented for all his sinnes: but hee must necessarily make restituti­on, if he haue taken other mens goods, which in extreame right he ought not to haue had? this is a point of your precisenesse. For I haue heard I know not how often, that to pray in faith, and charity, is sufficient; and that by repentance, a man is clensed frō all his sinnes. And therefore I take exception against this resti­tution, being not necessary, be­cause it is a point that somewhat toucheth me in particular.

Why you in particu­lar?

I will tell you why, (sith I haue begunne to open my secrets vpon promises of your fidelity and secresie.) When I departed from Oxford, I went to teach a young Gentleman in the Countrie, whose Father was ve­ry olde: with whome I practised the counsaile of Tyresias, Hor. satyr. 5. lib. 2. and of Dauus so cunningly, that I quick­ly insinuated my selfe into great fauour with the olde man, in so much, that he thought no man was so fit to traine vp his young sonne, as my selfe. The which when I perceaued, I pretended that I intended not to stay long with him, but prouide some spi­rituall liuing, (but I meant no­thing lesse.) For that would be a cōtinuall stay vnto me: in staying with him, was but a point of fol­ly. For when his sonne should come to yeares, then should I [Page 304] be cast off, to shift for my selfe. When the olde Gentleman sus­pected that I watched opportuni­ty [...]o be gone from him, his de­si [...]e to keepe mee was doubled. Many offers he made me, but (to be short) at length we agre­ed vpon this; that I should haue my life in a certaine Farme, after the estate of one man, (who then had interest in it) shold be voide. After this conclusion, my olde Master shortly dyed. He being dead, I got the counterpane of the title wherby this Farmer held his Farme. The which I shewed to a very cunning Lawyer, desiring him, to finde some defect in it, if he could. The which when he read it ouer, he tolde me, that the title indeede was very suffici­ent; notwithstanding, hee could picke certaine quarrels against it, and make a prettie shew that [Page 305] it was not good. I requested him to doe his best endeuour in the matter, and I would fee him wel. I was the bolder to attempt this, because then there were two cer­taine hungry fellowes, who were in some distresse, by reason they feared my young Master would not retayne them in his seruice as his Father did: These men I knew were men of large consci­ences, and therefore the fitter for my purpose. These men I brought into fauour with my young Master, because I knewe that these fellowes would sweare any thing for my sake. To omit many circumstances, I put the Farmer in sute for his liuing, pre­tending that his title was not good. Before the matter came to pleading, my Lawyer aduised me in my eare many thinges, which accordingly I performed. [Page 306] And this I will tell you in your eare, by a little fee, and mediati­on of friends, I secretly got the Farmers Lawyer more my frend then his Clyents; yet he pleaded very eagerly, and vsed manye words, but not directly to the point, as I know he could, and would haue done, had not I o­therwise before seasoned him. So that by this meanes, and the fauourable oathes of my fore­named seruingmen, the Farmers title seemed not good. The Iudge did his duty, he could not but iudge secundum allegata, & probata: By this meanes I got my Farme. But when I came to turne out the Farmer, his wife & children, they with his neigh­bours made such an outcrie on me, with vilde tearmes, that it somewhat amazed me. I knew before I put the Farmer in sute, [Page 307] that I should doe him wrong in putting him from his Farme; but it then neuer mooued my consci­ence to thinke on it. But when I had done it, then as an vnhol­some meate after a man hath ea­ten it, it often riseth in the sto­macke, and vpbraydeth it: so when I had done this fact, often the remembrance of it did yrke me, especially as oft as I came in sight of the Farmer, or any of his. So that I often then desired God (for then I was in a stagge­ring opinion, sometimes doub­ting whether there was a God or no, and sometimes fearing, least there should be a God that wold punish me) hartily to forgiue me my fault, and diuers times then by fits hartily repented. Now sit, say that I did in this fact offend God and man, I am now guilt­lesse. For in respect of God, I am [Page 308] free from this sin, because I haue repented it, and at what time soeuer a sinner repenteth, God forgiueth him his sinne. In re­spect of men, I offend not in pos­sessing of the Farme. For the Iudge rightly according to the forme of law, & proofes brought before him, pronounced sen­tence on my side. And therfore I iustly possesse it, according to law. This being so, I am not bound either by lawe or consci­ence to make restitution, sith in possessing it, I offend now, nei­ther God nor man.

It is a strange thing, to sée how you sooth your self in your owne sinnes, and how far Sathan hath blinded you, that you should not take the right meanes to saluation: you de­taine other mens goods, and yet you doe offende neyther [Page 309] God nor man. Not God, be­cause you haue repented for y^e sin. Not man, because you pos­sesse it by right of law. Why, doe you thinke that any kinde of repentance is accepted of God, but a true repentance? or that we may possesse any thing with a good conscience gotten by the abuse of lawe, as you haue gotten your Farme? it is said, that Iudas repented, yet he was reiected of God. He re­pented seriously without hypo­crisie, hee repented euen from the bottome of his heart: Hee acknowledged his fault before the high Priests, and Elders.Mat. 27. He restored backe the mony ill gottē, of his own accord, but al this was in vaine. For as God giueth vnto Nations, Coun­tries, and Cities, their set time & space to repent, which time, [Page 310] if they let slippe without repen­tance, though afterwards they break theis hearts with griefe, yet is not their sorrow accep­ted. So likewise, he giueth to euery mā a set space to repent, which if he neglect, though hée be afterward grieued, and af­ter a sort (as Iudas) repent, yet their griefe is no true repen­tance, nor accepted of: Neither can they trulie repent, because it is a gift giuen to those,1. Sam. 2.25. who truly loue & obey God, which no wicked person doth.Rom. 1.24 And albeit we may not by the rule of charity,2. Thess. 2.11. iudge any particu­lar man a reprobate, or one y^t hath ouerpast the time of repē ­tance as long as he hath breath in his body, yet that there are many men, who haue runne on so long in their wickednesse, y^t God hath reiected them many [Page 311] yeares before the time of their death, we may without breach of charity thinke, as it is ma­nifest by the words of our Sa­uiour Christ, wéeping for Ie­rusalem. Oh,Luke. 19.42. if thou haddest knowen at y^e least euen in this thy day, those things which pertayned to thy peace! but now are they hidde from thine eyes, because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. This signified our Sauiour Christ in that Parable of the Figtrée,Luc. 13.6. which only cumbred y^e ground in the vineyard, and brought foorth no fruit: and therefore should haue béene presently cast out, but that the dresser of the vineyard obtayned thrée years space, to try, whether by manu­ring it, it might be brought to bring foorth good fruit; if not in that space, it was to bée cast [Page 312] out. When Esaw had for a small portion of meate sold his birthbright, afterwards he could not inherite, but was reiected, and though hee sought it with teares,Heb. 12.17. yet hee founde no place for his repentāce; a bare griefe, though it be from the bottome of the heart,Mat. 3.8.9.10. is not a sufficient repentance; but there must be also an amendment of life.Luc. 13.3. And this is the cause why Daniell exhorted Nebuchadnezzar (who by cruelty and oppression, had spoyled many of the poore) to breake off his sinnes by righte­ousnesse,Dan. 4.24. and by mercy and li­berality to the poore, that by that meanes, hee might make restitution of that hee had vn­lawfully gotten. And if you will sée y^e patterne of a true re­pentance, consider the example of Zacheus, who before his [Page 313] conuersion to Christ, was in­famous for wrongfull dealing. But when he repented, then to redéeme his faults committed against men, he gaue halfe his goods to the poore, and if hée had taken any thing from any mā by forged cauillation, he would restore him foure-folde.Luc. 19.8. For albeit we cānot by this means satisfie for our sinnes before God, yet by restitution of vn­lawfull gotten goods we may, and ought to satisfie men. And that we ought to doe this, wée are expresly commanded so to doe, in the sixt of Leuiticus: Where it is said, that if any man by robbery or violence, or any way wrongfully detayne any thing from his neighbour, he must restore the principall, and adde the fift part vnto it, vnto the partie defrauded. And like­wise [Page 314] this precept is repeated a­gaine more plaine, and more generall for all trespasses, in the fift of Numbers. This ther­fore, is not a tricke of my pre­cisenesse, as you imagine; but besides these plaine & euident places of y^e Scripture, the lear­nedst Diuines, both ancient & late, Protestants, & Papists, haue euer held this to be a true Doctrine. And least you should imagine that I faine this, here is S. Augustine, I will read his owne words concerning this matter,Enchirid. c. 70. & 75. Cauendum est, ne quisquam existimet infanda illa crimina, qualia qui agunt, regnum Dei non possidebunt quotidie per­petranda, & eleemosinis quotidie redimenda, in melius quippe est vi­ta mutanda: & per eleemosinas de peccatis praeteritis est propitiandus Deus, non ad hoc emendus: vt ea [Page 315] liceat semper committere. Nemi­ni enim de dit laxamentum peccan­di, quamuis miserendo deleat iam peccata facta, si non negligatur con­grua satisfactio. And in the words following, I remember he saith, that many in his time were in that errour, that they thought they might continue sinning, so they daylie gaue almes. Against whose errour, he in that place purposely wri­teth. Also in his Epistle to Macedonius he thus saith: Si res aliena, cum reddi possit, non red­ditur, non agitur poenitentia, sed fingitur: & nisi restituatur ablatū, non remittitur peccatum. So that by his opinion, except restitu­tion he made of vnlawful goods (if they may be restored) it can be no true repentance, but a fayning of repentance, and y^e God remitteth not the sin, ex­cept [Page 316] restitution be made. On­ly he excepteth, that if y^e goods ill gotten, be spent before the time of repentance, so that the offendor is not able to make restitution; then an vnfay­ned griefe, with a faithfull en­deuour to make satisfaction, is accepted with God.Lib. 4. de­stinct. 14.15.16. Héere could I reckon vp many Fa­thers to this purpose, but be­cause their opinions are for the most part set down in the Ma­ster of the Sentences, I referre you to read him. With these agrée all the best writers,Salon in 2. 2. tom. q. 62 Pet. de Ar. lib. de err. Grec. c. 17. Als. de Cast. li. de heres. in verb. re­stitutio. Cordub. lib. 1. quest. 41. as Caluin, Brentius, Borrhaius, Medina, Salon, Petrus de Ara­gon, and many more. To these may bee added the Councell of Turone.

Let Scripture, Coun­cels, Fathers, Protestants, Pa­pists, say all what they can, they [Page 317] can neuer conclude, that of ne­cessity I must make restitution, or else be damned.

Why, what is your reason?

Because I haue learned this rule, that no affirmatiue pre­cept bindeth any man alwaies to performe it. Obligat semper sed non ad semper. Whereas nega­tiue precepts bind vs alwaies ad semper. As for example. I am commanded to giue almes to the poore, to pray alwaies; yet am I not continually bound to be giuing. For it is impossible for any man to haue so much goods, as that he may be alwaies giuing. Againe, I sinne not, if I be not alwaies praying. For God aloweth mee the night to sleepe, and take my rest; he alow­eth me a time to take my foode, and be merry, and a time to doe [Page 318] my wordly businesse. Now, in negatiue precepts it is otherwise, I must alwaies obserue them; I must neuer kill, neuer beare false witnesse, neuer commit adulte­ry. Now sir, that I must make restitution, or else my repentāce is no true repentance, nor wil be accepted of; you bring for profe of it, only affirmatiue precepts out of the Scripture: on which, your Councell of Turone, your Fathers, your new Diuines, both Protestants and Papists, ground their opinions. The ground of all their opinions being groun­ded on an affirmatiue precept, do not necessarily conclude that which they intend: which being so, I will hold my Farme, I will hold my hold, I possesse it by lawe. I had rather bee tyed to obserue all the commande­ments of God besides, then [Page 319] this. You must pardon mee in this point.

It is a strange thing to sée how subtile men are, to bring themselues to condem­nation, and what wiles they can inuent, that the word of God shal not take hold on their offences. But to answere you; It is true indéede, that Di­uines haue such a rule, that affirmatiue precepts bind vs alwaies to obserue them; but not at all times. And that ne­gatiue preceps doe bind vs al­waies, and at all times to ob­serue them. But it pleaseth you to remember no more of the rule, then will make for your purpose. You will not take notice of that part of the rule, which maketh against you. For it is added in the rule of affirmatiue preeps, that [Page 320] albeit affirmatiue precepts doe not bind you to doe at al times that which is commanded, as to pray night and day without ceasing; or continually to giue almez without intermission: yet doe they necessarily binde vs to obserue them, when oc­casions, time and place require them to be done; when charity requireth the performance of them. Obserue you these con­ditions of the rule, and you shal not offend. You haue time and opportunity to restore your vn­lawful gotten goods, the rule of charity requireth it: Therefore you euen by this rule, ought to haue restored it before this time. And because you séeme to estéeme rules in expounding commandements or precepts; it is a generall rule, that hée which commandeth, or forbid­deth [Page 321] that which is of lesse im­portance, much more comman­deth or forbiddeth that which is of greater importance in the same kind. As for example, in the tenth commandement it is said, Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife, nor his maide, nor his oxe, nor his asse, nor any thing that is his. Surely God who forbiddeth vs to couet these things of our neighbour, much more forbiddeth vs in these words the vnlawfull possession of our neighbours goods: if we may not couet them, much lesse may we haue them, if we only couet them in our mindes, we only offend God; but if we vn­lawfully take them, we offend God and man. Thus you sée, that in possessing your Farme vnlawfully gotten, you breake both affirmatiue, and negatiue [Page 322] precepts. For if you may not couet any thing which is your neighbours, much lesse haue them; then by necessary consequent, you ought to re­store it againe.

Tush, say I doe not re­store it, will you conclude me to be a reprobate?

No. For God maye giue you a true repentance, and mooue you to make re­stitution.

Nay, say I thus die, neuer intending to restore it: Wil you conclude that I am dā ­ned? if euery one who die in sinne shall be damned, thē Christ died in vaine, who died for the sinnes of all men; this you will not hold.

Surely the Scripture teacheth mee, that hee which willingly refuseth the meanes [Page 323] of saluation, shall neuer ob­tayne saluation. A true re­pentance, is a necessary means to be reconciled to God; there­fore without it, no man can be saued: the Scripture is most plaine in this point. The Lord saith in Ezechiell, Chap. 33.14.15. When I say to the wicked thou shalt die y^e death; if he turne from his sin, & doe that which is lawfull and right, if hee restore the pledge, (marke what here is required, he must restore the pledge to y^e poore, which was willingly de­liuered him by the owner, and not by wrong taken from him, as you got your Farme) and giue backe that hee had robbed (to got by fraud is a kinde of robbery, and the worst kinde) and walke in the statutes of life (it is not sufficient to abstaine from euill, but he must [Page 324] do good) he shal liue and not die. By these words the Lord she­weth, after what manner he will iudge all men, that they who truely and vnfainedly repent, that is, satisfie men for the wrongs done vnto thē, as much as in them lieth, and hartily desire pardon of God for their offence, shall be saued. But such as make no satisfac­tion vnto men for wrongs done vnto them, being in their po­wer to do it, shall be damned; whatsoeuer vaine pretences they make of repentance.Vide Cal­uinū in 3. ad. Heb. vers. 13. For no true repentance can be without a sincere loue of God: No sincere loue of God, can be without a readines and a wil­lingnes of mind to obay gods will;Math. 5.23.24. Which is, first, to be reconciled to our brethren, and satisfie the wrong done vnto [Page 325] him, if we can, before we aske pardon for our sinnes of him. If any man flatter himselfe, that God will pardon him, not­withstanding hee hath not a willing mind, and do not his endeauour to be reconciled to his brother, and satisfie him for his wrong done vnto him. He maketh God a lyar, who cannot lye, and he shall find, (but too late,) that that which he foresheweth, he will do, and will indéed performe. And furthermore, marke well after what manner God will iudge all men: Vnto the mercifull men god will say, I was hun­gry, thirstie, naked, and in pri­son, & ye refreshed me, cloathed me, & ye visited me. For, in that they did these things to the distressed mēbers of Christ, they did it vnto him. But vn­to [Page 326] the vnmercifull he will say, I was hungrie, thirstie, na­ked, sicke, and in prison, and you refreshed me not, cloathed me, nor visited me. Heare marke well his iudgement on the vnmercifull men. He con­demneth them, because they gaue not of their owne vnto o­ther men néeding their helpe; if he will condemne those, who haue lesse sinned, much more will he condemne those,V [...]de inter­praetes in Luc. 16.25. who haue more gréeuously sinned: For his iudgements are iust. Now these testimonies which I haue alleaged, are prophe­sies foreshewing in what man­ner God will iudge all men, and all prophesies in the scrip­ture shall as truely be fulfilled, as God is true. I conclude therefore that he which resto­reth not his vnlawfull gotten [Page 327] goods hauing time, occasion, opportunitie, and ability, can­not inherite the kingdome of God.

Why, pray did Christ dye in vaine? shall all bee con­demned who fulfill not the com­maundements? If they shall, I shall haue fellowes ynough to goe to hell with me: For you hold, that none euer fulfilled the commandements.

What a strange questi­on is this, to aske whether Christ dyed in vaine? I mar­uaile what you thinke of the death and passion of Christ? It should séeme, that you thinke that Christ therefore suffered, that men might more freelye sin. This is to make Christ to approoue sin, beware of this er­rour. He suffred to a cleane contrary end, that wee being [Page 328] fréed from the bondage of Sa­than, and the rigor of the law, might serue him in holines and righteousnes all the daies of our life,Luk. 1.74.75. 1. Pet. 2.24. and be not deceaued in this point also. You must know y^t the benefite of Christs passion doth not extend it selfe to all kinds of sinners;Psalm. 103 17.18. Rom. 8.1. Mat. 19.28 But onely to such, who doing their endeauour to kéepe the com­maundements of God: Yet notwithstanding are ouerta­ken with sinne, who stumble and fall into sinne,Pro. 24.16 but not wil­lingly lay still in sinne, and not vnto those who willingly con­tinue in sinne. Nay, they who know Christ, and his doc­trine, if they endeauour not to liue according to his doctrine, that is, endeauour not to liue godlye, they are so farre from enioying the benefite of his [Page 329] passion concerning the life to come, as that it were better for them neuer to haue known it, then after they haue known it,2. Pet. 2.21 to turne from the holy com­mandement giuen them. And vppon this reason our sauiour sayd vnto the man who had béene diseased Eight and thir­tie yeares,Ioh. 5.14. when he had cured him; Behold thou art made cleane, sinne no more, least a worse thing happen vnto thée. Signifying thereby, that the more graces we haue receaued of the Lord, if we, (notwith­standing wee haue receaued them) continue in our wicked­nesse, shall be guiltie of grea­ter damnation, then if we had neuer knowne or receaued his graces. So that you may not imagine, that Christ came to frée vs from the obseruation of [Page 330] the morall lawe, or suffred for the sinnes of men, that they might the more fréelye sinne without danger of damnation. But if you will beléeue Christ himselfe: he requireth in his disciples greater and perfecter obseruation of the morall law, then did the Scribes and Pha­risies require of the Iewes,Mat. 5.17.20. and without all question a seri­ous endeauour to obserue the morall law, is so necessary to saluation, that without it no man can be saued. For albeit, repentance and good works be not primary causes of our sal­uation: Yet are they seconda­ry causes, and meanes of our saluation;Mat. 5.20. Ier. 26.3. Luk. 13.3. and as there is a ne­cessitie of the primary causes to our saluation: So also there is a necessitie of the ordinarie meanes to saluation, without [Page 331] which no man can bee saued. Though indéed I must confesse,Act. 3.19. Ioh. 5.29. Arist. phis. 8. text. 5. et Metaph. 5. c. 2. q. 9. se­cūd. Fo [...]se. et 8. phis. c. 5. et Me­taph. 12. Vid. Kek. f. 147. trac­tatu de causis. that there is a greater necessi­tie required of the primarie causes to saluation, then of the secondary causes or meanes: Because God, who is the pry­mary cause of our saluation, is tyed to no secondary meanes. But he may and doth saue ma­ny without either actuall fayth or repentance, after an extraor­dinarie manner: as the chil­dren of the faithfull, dying be­fore the yeares of discretion. But secondary causes haue no force, without the ayde of the primary cause. No man can haue a true faith or repentance without the operation of the grace of God. The wicked may be sory for that they haue done; They may beléeue that their sinnes shall be forgiuen; [Page 332] But except they haue the spirit of regeneration, whereby their persons are first accepted of God, and whereby they first loue God; such repentance and faith are not accepted of God.

You confesse then, that God can and doth saue many without actuall faith, and actuall repentance, that being so, it doth not follow, that necessarily I am a reprobate, though I dye with the intent neuer to restore my Farme againe. And surely, if there bee a God, his mercie is greater then his iustice, as you all teach. I will relye vpon his mer­cy, if he call mee to iudgement, and not on my repentance and good workes. I hope to bee sa­ued by that extraordinarie way of sauing whereof you speake, in which neither faith nor repen­tance [Page 333] is required. And indeed, I now remember you acknow­ledge that one of the theeues which were crucified with ch ist, was saued after this manner.

Albeit, God saueth ma­ny men after an extraordinary manner, because he is not ty­ed to ordinarie meanes: Yet he saueth after this manner onely those, vnto whome the meanes of ordinary saluation hath not béene reuealed. Ma­ny both in the time of the old lawe, and also since the time of the gospell haue liued where they neuer hard of the doctrine of Moses (for some of them li­ued before the time of Moses) and some since the time of the passion of Christ,Perkins in his refor­med Catho­like. Point. 16. haue liued where the gospel of Christ was neuer preached. So that they could not haue that explicitam [Page 334] fidem required in the word of God:Hooker. lib. 5. sect. 22. Luke 11.31.32. Yet God of his good­nesse by extrordinarie meanes hath wrought in their hearts, that they know and obay him: on whome, as hee hath besto­wed but a fewe Talents: so he requireth not much of them. Others there are, who are not capable of y^e ordinary meanes of saluation, by reason of the weaknesse of their capacity; or because they are borne deafe, and so continue to their liues end: or infants dying before the yeares of discretion.Beda. in Rō. 3.31. Last-such as vnto whom y^t means of saluation are not reuealed, euē vntill their dying day, so late, that albeit they knewe them, yet had they not time to exe­cute them. These and y^e like, God of his méere mercy saueth, without ordinary means. But [Page 335] if any vnto whome, the ordi­nary meanes of saluation are reuealed,Aug. lib. 80 quest. c. 76. tom. 4. do presume to be sa­ued, notwithstanding they neg­lect the ordinary meanes of sal­uation, which is a serious en­deuour to liue according to the commandements of God: If they continue in their sinnes, and doe not endeuour to shake them off, but presume vpon the mercy of God, that he will bée mercifull vnto them, though they wilfully continue in their sinnes. They shall be sure a­boue all other men, to bée cast out of the fauour of God.Deut. 29.19.20. Iud. 4. For he doth protest, that he wil not be mercifull to such men, but will bring all the curses men­tioned in the law, vpon them. No man can be saued but by y^e Passion of Christ,Heb. 5.9. Ambros. in Apoc. 16.15 and the be­nefits of his Passion extendeth [Page 336] it selfe no farther, then to those that doe their endeuour to obey his doctrine.Caluin. in Heb. 3.13. Theophilac. Beda in Ioh 5.29. No man can be iustified without a true faith; but where there is not a readi­nesse, and willingnesse to obey Christs commandemēts, there is no true faith. Therefore without this willingnesse and endeuour, no man can bée sa­ued. Our Sauiour Christ saith, speaking of the resurre­ction, and the generall day of iudgment, that all men shall rise out of their graues,Vide Musc. in hunc loc. They that haue done good, vnto the re­surrection of life: and they that haue done euill, vnto the resurrecti­on of condemnation. Here in this iudgement, marke what kinde of men are saued;Hieronim. Hugo Card. Christ saith, They that haue done good, al­though no mans good worke be of that perfection, that for thē, [Page 337] any man can be iustified;Caluin. in 2 Cor. 5.3. Reu. 20.6. Mat. 5 20. Psalm. 103 17.18. Rom. 8.1. yet except he haue some measure of inherent righteousne, vnlesse he hath endeuoured to do good, he shall neuer bee clothed with the righteousnesse of Christ: none shall enioy this benefit of Christs righteousnesse, but on­ly true Christians, who liue not after the flesh, but after y^e spirit. Hence I conclude, that you cannot expect saluation af­ter any extraordinary manner, because the meanes of ordina­ry saluation hath béene reuea­led vnto you long since; & this grace God bestoweth on no man in vaine: for either the knowledge of them worketh saluation, or condemnation: nor you cannot expect saluati­on after the ordinary way of saluation, except you vse those meanes ordayned thereunto. [Page 338] Whereas you say, that y^e mer­cy of God is greater then his iustice; and therefore you relie vpon his mercy, & not on your workes and repentance. If you respect the mercy and iustice of God, as they are in himself, his mercy is no greater then his iustice. For in God there is nothing greater or lesse, but all things in the highest perfection: But if you respect his mercy as hee bestoweth it on his crea­tures: so his mercy is far more large then his iustice, all his creatures haue tasted of his mercies, but not all of his iu­stice. The holy Angels neuer felt his iustice. Your self hath enioyed many of his mercies a long time, but as yet, haue felt little of his iustice. Albeit his mercies in this respect be greater then his iustice: yet [Page 339] yet doth he bestow his mercies after a different manner accor­ding to the different quality of his creatures, as also his mer­cies be of diuers kinds, some spirituall, and some temporall. His spirituall blessings, as e­ternall saluation, he bestoweth only vpon those, who truely be­léeue in Christ, and consequent­ly, seriously obey the will of God, so farre foorth as they know his will. But you be­léeue not, nor endeuour to liue as the word of God directeth you. And therefore although you may, and are partaker of his temporall blessings: yet you cannot be capable of his spirituall blessings, as long as you continue in this damnable estate. As for your example of the théefe, who (as you say) was saued without workes: First, [Page 340] it is not true,In the first Dialogue concer­ning good workes. he was not saued without good works, as else where I haue prooued Second­ly, if it were so, your case and his are not alike. The meanes of saluation were not reuea­led vnto him, but euen on the day hee was crucified: yet as soone as he was conuerted, hée presently shewed forth works. But to you the meanes of sal­uation haue béene knowne ma­ny yeares since, yet you con­temne them. Therefore can­not you expect but the iustice of God in the day of iudgement, and not mercie.

So sir, I am then by your doctrine a reprobate, ex­cept I restore my Farme a­gaine.

By my doctrine? why say you so? It is the doctrine of the learnedst Diuines both [Page 341] olde and new that euer wrote. Protestants, and Papists agrée in this point, & they all ground their opinion on the word of God.

Well sir, I am a repro­bate, and I say you are a Puri­tane. Vnlocke your Studie doore.

Nay, pray bee not of­fended with me, I haue sincere­ly tolde y^e truth, that whilst you haue time, you may repent.

Repent? Vnlocke your Studie doore, or else I wil break it open.

Nay, I may not impri­son you.

Is this your kinde en­tertainement?