The fyrste, boke againste the errours of the Auababtistes, diuided into dialogues, wherof, the enterloquutors are, Ioiada, who representeth the true christen man▪ & Symon, that taketh the Auababtistes parte.
How that the worlde, is easisy deceiued, and brought to diuision, by fass doctrine.
THat truely, whiche the wise men of the heathen, dyd complayne vpon, saiyng that al mortal men, are exceadyng studiouse, of new thynges, appeareth now to bee true: in so muche that thei doe suffer them selues wilfully to be begyled, and vtterly spoyled, by shameful and abhominable impostours & deceauers (so that [Page] thei be commended, with hypocrisy, and vaine blandiloquence or flatteryng) although this thing (if any man, shulde esteme it after humaine reason) is by it selfe, bothe myserable, and full of horrour, yet notwithstondyng, it owght most of all, to be lamented, among vs Christen men, whiche haue sure and definite, shorte and moste approued groundes or foundacions, bothe of our faithe and of our lyuyng, wher vpon, we may surely leine, and truste, not suffryng our selues, thus to be caried about and tossed to and fro, by suche erroneouse persons. But surely, our synnes, & infidelitie do deserue it, whiche dooe heare daiely the worde of god, but do not receiue it, with a true herte, sekyng, I can not tell, what other thyng [Page] beside the glorie of god, and true innocencie of lyfe Therfore, are we deseruyngly gyuen, in to a reprobate mynde, and in to all kynde of filthinesse and abhominacion.
Lo I set the man, whome I haue loked for, agreate whyll. But is it he, in dede whome I see comynge hetherward, to mete me, or not? I wyll speke vnto hym.
God spede, moste wellbeloued brother. Arte thou not
with whome, I dyd familyarly lyue, in the citie of Lyons. Tell me I praie the, how doest thou? Are all thinges safe, or well? Or what thinge, maketh the, to go, so pensyf, and troublyd in thy mynde?
As touchinge my selfe, all thynges [...]ewell, thankes be vnto god, But it greueth me, that such greate [Page] dissencions, and troubles are among Christen men. And although suche debates and strifes, be neither necessary, nor profitable, for any maner of thyng, yet not withstondyng we dooe see, the poore symple people, to be, on euery syde intangled with the errours of the Anababtistes I am bothe asshamed and sorie also, that suche blyndnesse doeth reigne, that men, can not see, what misfortune doeth folowe, whersoeuer these anababtistes, doe fixe or set their feate. Surely, it did behoue, that thei shuld haue perceaued, and espied such thynges, & after that thei were ones knowen, to shunne them, & not toswarue, as muche, as the bredthe of a naile from the sure articles of the faithe.
Tell me I praie y•, if thou art a [Page] good felow. What harmes, doe these men, go about to doe? for I dare saie and affirme, that I haue not hetherto harde, that thei haue gone about any thyng, that doeth abhorre, from truthe and honesty. In the meane season I know, that many thynges are imputed vnto them, falsely, moreouer that thei be accused, and blamed in many thynges, whiche thei dooe not knowlage them selues, to be gylty in.
I dooe heare also, that thine eies are blynded by suche men. Which if I doe, bothe heale and opē vnto the, thou wilt geue me thankes, and remembre this benefyt.
I can not vtterly blame this sorte of men, for yet I haue not harde, that thei haue done any abhomynable thyng.
But I wil [Page] make it, manyfeste vnto the. This secte dyd vtterly subuerte the whole citie of Waltzhountum, and did cause many of the cytezens, whyche were bothe good and ryghtfull men, to bee exyled, and to be put from their possessions. Wherfore the gospell (whiche dyd florysshe godly there) was also outrageously extynguysshed. The whiche thyng dyd almoste chaunce, in a citee, called Vormantia. There were Anababtystes in Auguste, in Basile, and in Morania, whiche did affyrmt, that Christe was but a prophete, saiyng that the vngodly persones, whiche for theyr vngodlynesse were damned, and the dyuelles also, shulde enioye, the heauenly blesse. In a towne called Sanctogallus, one of them, did smite [Page] of his owne brothers heade, the father of heauen (as he sayed) byddynge hym thus to dooe. What abhominacion they dooe commytte, vnder the pretence, and colour of spirituall matrimony, the townes and cittees, that did oftentymes, greuously punysshe them, for suche wicked and abhominable factes, dooe manifestly shewe and testifie. And this no man can denay, but that many of them, do leaue and forsake their owne wyues and children, yea all offyce and honesty beyng casted a syde, dooe lyue, feade, and fatte them selues, with other mens labours, snortyng bothe daie and nyght, moste slougardely. And where as, they bee wholely gyuen to so foule and detestable sensualytee, they dooe interprete [Page] it, to be, the commaundemente, of the heauenly father, persuadyng to women and honeste matrones, that it is impossible for them, to be partakerres of the kyngdome of heauē excepte thei doe abhominabli prostitute, and make common theire owne bodies to all men, sithe that it is, wrytten, that we muste forsake and renounce, to all thynges, y• we loue best, and that we ought to suffer all kyndes of infamie, or reproche, for Christsake, besyde that, that ye publicans, and harlottes shallbe preferred, to the ryghtwes, in the kyngdome of heauen, There is no ende, nor measure of ther infydelitie, and falshod, of their liyng and sedition, with the which vices these disobedient persons are on euery syde infectyd. Are these, my [Page] Symon, and other muche greuoser, which I dooe passe ouer here, for the nones, to be callyd vertues? Dooe they seme vnto ye yet, to haue done no vnhonest acte? Or canste thou denaye, but that thei haue done these thīges
Truly many thinges are ascribed vnto them falsely and the fame or voyce of the people, dooeth alwayes adde somwhat vnto it.
That, which is sayed hetherto, maye be prouyd by sealed letters, and with sure and infalible witnesses. I haue here wittingly passed ouer theyr abhominable crimes, and haue sayed, a greate deale lesse, than they haue done them selues. Therfore, it greauith me the more, that men are so blynde, that they can not perceiue, nor ponder in their hertes [Page] suche thynges. But rather, that a greate sorte of men, dooe embrace those erroneous felowes and rennegates, eauen as, yf they ware fallen, or sent doone from heauen and were saintes amonge mortall men, whiche should preache, none other, but godly & heauēly thinges. Where as thei doe passe, in filthy liuing the Nicolantes, and Valentynians.
These thīges haue ben hetherto vnknowen vnto me. And I suppose, that they be not all pollutyd, with those filthye abhominationes. But what skyllithe, to them, yt are good, what fewe among thē Dooe committe? In the hollie nūbre of the apostelles, Iudas was a traytour, and yet neuerthelesse was callyd an apostyll. Which (I suppose) coulde not [Page] hurte the other. Moreouer thei teache so excellente and godly thynges, of god, of shunninge synnes, that I can not perceaue yt they be so wycked, and lewde. Whan they are takē, they praise and laude god, they gyue thankes, whan they are put to death they doe constantly endure and susteyne, dyeng gladly and wyllynglie. This thou canste not denaye my Ioiada, wherfore I wolde gladly, that thou haddest hard them as I haue.
I coulde paraduenture, bringe here fewe thynges, agaynste the excepte I knowe well alredye, all this sorte, of men and that a greate whyle a go. But I am not ingnoraunte, howe muche hipocrisye can preuayle, by the meanes of fraude and deceate. And as touchynge thyne answere, [Page] thou sayest very well in that, that is to wyt, that the wycked facte of fewe, shall not harme the innocent. But thou haste not yet proued, that the cause of the Anababtistes is iust and good, Nor thou canste not shewe one amonge them whiche is not commaculate, and infected with some of these said vices I meane lyenge, falshode, periurie, disobedience, sedicion, idelnes, forsakynge of their wiues and chyldren, turpitude. And though all these vices doe not sticke or cleaue to them al at ones, yet not withstandyng are they euery chone pollutid with some of them. That in the mean season I should speake nothyng of their heresie, and sectes, of their pertinacie, of their false & erroneous doctrīe. And because [Page] thou saiest, that thei speake muche of god. I wolde faine know of the, whether thei, yt doe preache the gospell, doe not speake of god also?
This thei doe greatly denaie.
In this thyng truely thei do wrong and iniury to the preachers of the gospell, testifiyng the contrary to the vniuersall chyrche, that is to saie, denaiyng, that by the gospel truely and syncerely preached the people is taught to put their truste, in the onely and true lyuyng god through Iesu Christe. In so muche that among the enemies of the gospell, it is saied in maner of a prouerbe, that priestes doe preache nothyng elles, but of god and faith onely, beyng offēded, with this preachyng: Man is iustified by faith alone.
Truely [Page] the mattier is so.
Now therefore if the Catababtistes, dooe teache of god and faithe otherwise, surely thei dooe blaspheame god and seduce the people. And if thei doe teache, all one thing with vs (for so it must be, if thei doe teache ryght, and accordynge to the scriptures) why doe thei therfore separate them selues from vs. Or is not that sufficient, that we teache, sythe that we dooe teache bothe one thyng?
There is one thyng, that ye wyll not teache, that is to saie, that thei, whiche are godly, shulde not sinne at al. And again sinners are not shunned of you Nor ye will not separate your selues, from this polluted, and wicked worlde.
We were taught by our sauiour Iesu Christ, that thei, that are [Page] whole, haue no neade of the phisycian, but thei that art sycke. For the Pharisees dyd obiecte the same to y• disciples of Christ, saiyng: Why doeth your maister eate with sinners? furthermore seyng that no man liueth without synne, not as muche, as the infaunt of one daie: we owght not to teache, that men shoulde not synne at all, but rather to repent daiely and hourely, and to beware of sinne, as of a snake, and that the godly owght not to dispaire, if thei fall, at any tyme As for the sinnes, that are committed openly, thei are so exagitate or rebuked by the ministers of the churche. Suche seueritee and extreme grauitee is vsed in rebukyng, that theyr enemies are wont to saie alredy, that thei can none other thyng, [Page] but chide and braule. Agayne, touchynge abstencion or separatyng, we doe not see that euer Christe did the same, as long as there was any hope. We doe not separate our selues, least we become like vnto the Pharisees, Luc. xviii.
But sinnes are not forsaken.
And that, owght not to bee imputed to the doctrine, but to them, whiche doe not folow the teachyng. The teachyng and doctrine (as thou grauntest thy selfe) is holsome, and in it, nothing is wantyng or lackynge. What other thyng doe then, the Catababtistes, in teachyng the contrary, but shew theyr pertinacy and a certaine syngularitee or loue of them selues, wherby it cometh to passe, that nothyng but that, which thei doe them selues pleaseth [Page] them? As this, is not done, without affection, so it can not be without vice.
And yet not withstandyng, thou doest not beleue, how deuout they are to god, how full of constancy and grauitee, how feruently thei loue god.
I can not beleue, yt this deuocion of theirs is without blame, or is syncere and pure. For thei diuide the churche, where no neade is. For thou canst not denaie, but that god, is taught by vs truely and faithfully. And that synnes are reprehended and rebuked, with great libertee and constauncie. What doe thei therfore, that we doe not, saue onely, that thei doe separate them selues, frō other, and are full of obstinacie? Doeth not Sathā also transforme him selfe, into an āgell of light? [Page] What merueill is therfore, if these impostours or deceitfull persons, can faine them selues, to be sheapeherdes? Thei that doe fisshe, dooe not caste a bare hooke before the fysshes, but doe hyde & couer it, with some pleasaunt and swete baite. And Cato did saie veary well. Whiles the byrder, the byrdes begyleth, The flute alwai swetely pipeth. Nor he is not so foolisshe, as for to set or laye his net before the birdes eies. Did not the bisshop of Rome seduce vs so many yeres, with his peincted hipocrisie, and with his godly and dyuyne dissimulacion and fraude? But these thynges are gon out of remembraunce, sythe that we doe, so lyghtly addicte or bynde our selues, to these newe impostours, and hipocrites. By what [Page] craftes, did monkes get so gret richesses, was it not, by flatteryng, and hypocrisie? Was it not, by a feined sanctimony, and holynesse of lyfe? As for that, yt thei doe reioyce, when thei are taken, & dye gladly, with praysyng and laudyng god, thou doest so exaggerate and extoll it, as though these thynges (if thei be done) shulde shewe and proue that their doctrine is true, and that their deedes are good. If thou canst proue that, it shall folowe, that theft and robbery, be iuste and good deedes also. For whan thei be punisshed at the galows, or vpon the whele, thei doe oftentymes suffer it paciently, & moreouer, doe praise & laude god. Who is so folysshe, to thynke, that he maye thus make his argument? This man [Page] is tormented and punisshed, & yet not withstandynge, dooeth gyue thankes: ergo, he is a iust man & holy. If any man, shulde contende, that this doeth folow, he muste nedes to graunt also, that the religion of the Iues, is moste holy, yea, that their religion onely is true. For no man▪ doeth pacientlyer endure, to the very death, for his religion, thā the Iues doe. How many heretikes were there (thinkest thou) which did moste constantly suffer death, testifiyng, wt their oūe blood, that thei had taught the truthe. Do not oftētime robers & traitours, which suffer death, accordīg to their deseruyng, stifly defend their innocencie, to the last breath? Is therfore y• cause of such an obstacle and desperat man, iustified before god? Who [Page] doeth not perceiue, y• the farther he is from repentance and confession, so muche the worse he is
It is so as, thou saiest, nor I can not saie, againste it. But this is moste to be lamented, that we, whiche are simple persons, are so tossed and caried to and fro, in so muche, that we can not tel, what is beste to bee doone. The Anababtistes dooe saie, that ye doe erre, and ye saie agayne, that thei be out of the right waie. After my iudgemēt, what misery so euer, or trouble there is, it dooeth come of the priestes. And I dooe thinke, yt ther were neuer so troublesome tymes. It were peraduenture better, that I folowyng myne owne mynde, shuld beleue, none of you al, doyng al thinges after myne owne appetite, and witte.
Thou shalt not do so, my Symō, but now, learne by thine own self what good, doeth come of the anababtistes & what thou hast sucked of thē, for thou doest shew openly, ye fruite, that is to saie, desperacion, and to trust in thi self, hast thou forgottē, what god hath commaunded, in Deuteronomy? saiyng: ye shal not do euery man, y•, which semeth good vnto you, but that, which y• lord hath commanded. So this phā tasticall & new fangled men, do intangle wt them selues, other men, & cast thē hedlyng, into all errours. But ye your selues, are in the faulte, being the autors of your one harmes, for such deceitful persons, do please you. By & by, as sone as any cōtencious body, or some new & vnaccustomed thing, doeth set forthe his head, ye come rēning by troppes, & neither [Page] warninges nor praiers nor rebukes can auaile among you. And whan ye be come into y• botomles pit of miserie or myschef ye put ye faulte in the ouerseers, which do geue you warnyng before, wt great fidelitie & trothe. Whose admonitions if ye would here, or rather gyue eares to ye word of god preched vnto you, & setforth by thē, ye might liue pesibly, seīg therfore, yt ye cast yourselues through your onefoli, īto such perplexites ye haue no caus to īpute it, to y• faithfull sheapherdes, whiche warned you befor to beware of such thīgs exhorting you to peace, charite, & cō cord, but to your oūe selues.
I haue said y•, which I do thīke yet, y• ther was neuer a more troblous world, who so euer ar ye autors of it.
wilt thou know what ye mattier is? this thīg do [Page] stirre vp sedition and timulltie, y• ye do make euery rascal knaue minister of gods word, and that without any descretion. Besyde this, thou shewest thiselfe vtterlie ignoraunte in histories, and vnexperte of wordely thynges, which doest scarsely knowe, the actes of one age, nor doeiste not cōsider farther, than is at hand. If thou haddest redde the hollie gospelles & actes of the Apostelles, thou shouldest haue founde greuouser dissentions, whiche did rise of the sermons of Christ and of his apostelles. Finallie that histories are full of tumultes, which dyd spryng in tymes paste, of the false oppinions of Marcion, Valentinus, Arrius, Nestorius Enriches, Donatus, Pelagius, and other heretikes. Ther were great tumultes and [Page] rebellions, not onely of cities & townes, but also of whole realmes, which wer so great, yt ours owght not to be compared with them. Did not bothe christ himselfe, and his apostels gyue warnyng before, that sectes, should aryse? Not because, that for thē we should be amasyd, or despair vtterly, but because, that wee should ye more dilygently watch against suche pestiferous sectes not onely to auoyde and shunne them, but to resiste also. Paule doeth apertely saye, Corin. ii. that sectes muste be, that thei which ar faithful, maye be knowen. For euen as a sieue doeth not lise the corne, but clensithe from chaffe and darnell, so the wheate of faithfull men, doeth not perishe by false doctrines, but is tryed, the duste and chaffe [Page] beeng sifted out. Ihon saieth: Thei wēt out from vs but they ware not of vs, for if thei had bē of vs they trulie shoulde had remayned wt vs. Therfor we haue nede of cōstaunce & fortitude or strenght, nor we ought not in [...]ō tinētly to forsake the sterne but resist corageously y• waues and stormes. This cōstācy & perseueraunce in the tēpeste is a token that wee are not light, but haue beleued stedfastly and wel. Tentations are signes or proues of faith and of ye truth, and do manifest & shew, how farre we haue beleued to ye true veritee.
Thy meaning is good Seinge therfore yt thou shewest thyselfe so frendly toward me, & that we haue begōe ones to commone of these thīges: I wil opē my whol mid vnto ye cōfering many and [Page] sondry thinges wt the, touching Catababtisme or oppiniōs of y• Anababtistes, if so be y• thou hast time & leasyr to heare me.
I wil gladly obey the and folow thy mynd. If thou hast any thīg bring it forth, ī gods name. Sy I do meruell, if ther is no good thing, in the doctrine and oppinions of the Anababtistes. For vnto me, it semeth much otherwyse, yt is to say, y• ther be many thinges strongly grounded vpō the scriptures.
This is all the good, that is in it, that it caus [...]the a greate meanye to reade the scriptures, whiche elles wolde but lyttell, studye in them. As for that whiche they teache well, they haue it commune wt vs, all the resydue wyll I proue to bee false and foolyshe. [Page] I am mynded to wryte hereafter agaynst thē wherfore I had noted agaynste their doctrine, certayne conclusions, which the greatest parte of them doe holde For agaynst suche vngodly and blasphemous rēnegates, which doe reiecte the scriptures, which doe affyrme that the deuelles and vngodly or vnfaithfull persones shall obtaine at length, the euerlastynge life, doe denaye the god head of Christe, and commite opēly with out all shame suche enorme and abhomynablee actes, what neade is it to wrytte? But now wyl set in order my conclusions,
The second treatie or dialoge.
[...] conclusions agaynste the doctryne of the Anababtistes, put here affirmatyuely▪ euen as Ioiada which [...]pr [...]senteth the faithfull christen man doeth holde them.
That spirite, which repugnith agaynst the meanyng of the spirite that speaketh in the holy scriptures, is not from the father of truthe but from the father of lies the deuell.
None of the Saintes dyd euer by violence or force, set forthe or thruste them selues in to the commune office of a preacher, saue onely whan they ware sente by god, elected and [Page] chosen, by the apostells and churche.
CHriste and the apostels did neuer trouble ye churche for yerthly and temporal thinges, but did chiefly study to nourysshe the peace and vnitee of al the churches. It appereth therfore, that thei, whiche doe trouble & diuide any churches being wel ordeined & pacified in christ for such thynges, are sedicious, lyers and heretykes.
THei are to bee counted false prophetes, which not without blasphemy & contempte of the crosse of Christ, doteache, that Christ dyd take awaie onely origynall synne, affirmyng that thei, which doe fail againe, after that thei be ones purified, [Page] and clensed by the water of regeneracion, shal not obteine daily remission of their synnes. Thei be also false prophetes, y• doe attribute or adscrib iustification to our owne workes.
Suche are blasphemous agaīst the gospell, which doe contēd and affirme that the soules do slepe, after this lyfe not knowyng the nature of the soule, nor the vertue of the resurreccion of Chrfst.
Rebabtization or babtizing agayne, is not of god, but a new secte deuiding the vnitie of the churche, wherby the most pestiferous, and hurtefull heresie, of Nonatus, Anpencius and Pelagius is renewed.
[Page] THe babtime of yong infantes is of god, whiche hath ben & did continue alwaies in the churche, sens the tyme of ye Apostels vnto this tyme, & not lately brought in, by y• byshops.
THe office or example of any christen man, cōpelleth not that we should not haue all thynges in cōmon, and nothyng priuate, or to our selues, but doeth moue & [...]orage vs to care, and see to our houshold, to exercise liberalitee and mercie.
SVche are therfore [...]poters & [...]ules of christes flocke whiche d [...] forsake their familye and houshold, and beyng add [...]ed or geuen to sedicious fables, do f [...]de them selfes, with other mens laboures, beynge in [Page] this thyng, most like vnto monkes, whiche dyd the same, with their hypocrisye.
THe preachers of the gospell, or ministers of the worde of god, maye haue goodes of their own, that is to say howses and possessions, and moreouer maye liue of the gospell.
THat the Anababtistes ar so enuious, and do imagine al wayes and forge calumniacions and lyes, who dooeth not see that it commeth of a hatered that they haue against the preachers of the gospell, that they may crepe in and aduaunce thē selues, e [...]tenuatyng therfore the faythfulnes and fidelitee of the sheapeheardes before the commons, because they may the better [Page] bee, beleued them selues?
CHristen men, whiche are ryghtfully chosen, may wt out any offēce of god be are rule, sith that power is the mynister of god.
THis power is not onely profitable, but also necessarie, for christen men, therfore we must be obedient vnto it, according to the doctrine of christ, Peter and Paule.
THey which wyll not be obedient to the common magistrates and rulers, or do resist against them, doyng them at any tyme wrong and reproch fulnes, be not christen men, but Sanlonites
[Page]THei that refuse to make laufull othes, vnto the publike rulers, do manyfestlye against the wyl of god, beyng autours of sedicion, and all dysobedience.
THe magistrate and rewler hath the sworde from God, wherwith he may smite the malefactours, and shed the blud of wicked dooers, that both the malefactours may be punysshed and the good and righteous liue surely among the wicked.
THe libertie of a christen mā is not carnall, they therefore that in the gospell, do seke carnall thynges and fleshly, are the fellowes of Symon Magus.
[Page] VVe doe not learne in y• gospell, that we shuld pay neither rentes nor tithes, but that we ought to paie, our debtes, vnto whom so euer we owe any thyng.
THe administraciō of bodily thynges doeth perte [...]ue to y• magistrates & rulers, whiche doe christen men lyke, whan thei doe after this rule: what so euerye will that men doe vnto you, doe the same vnto other.
VVho so euer kepeth this law & rule, may be, and remayne stil a christen man, though he receiueth bothe rentes and tithes.
These articles haue I, here put generally, because that a great parte of y• Anababtistes do hold against them▪ for I know, y• it is [Page] impossible yt any man should reherse al their errours sith yt thei be īfinit & wtout number For it is no meruel yt thei do fall, from one errour into an other, seyng, yt thei haue not ye same spirite of truthe. Whiche thyng causeth yt so dyuerse & contrary sectes, do aryse among them, that the one doeth condemne and excommunicate the other.
If thou haddest rehersed these articles before them, thou couldest not haue done it, wtout a [...] and sharpe answere.
I haue proued, my Symon, and that a greate whyle a go, their poysoned, and v [...]d hert [...]s, and tounges, bothe ready to all kynd of reuyling, and opprobriousues, and also more bytter, than is any worme wode, wher by any man maye coniecte and [Page] knowe, of what spirite, these phātastical felowes doe speake. But reade thou, the thryde chapiter, of the epystell of saincte Iames, and thou shalte knowe that I saye true.
I praie the, that thou wylt reherse, out, of this chapiter, the thinges, yt moste chyefly, doe for our pourpose,
These are the wordes of the apostel: Who is wyse, and endued with knolage amonge you (Let hym shewe, by his good conuersacion, his workes, with a gentell wysdome. If so be, that ye haue bytter enuye and contencion, in your hertes, dooe not ye boaste of it, nor be liers againste the truth. For that wisdome, is not connyng from aboue, but yerthly beastelyke, and deauelyshe. For where tnuye and contentacion, is, ther [Page] is incōstancie and wicked workes. But the wisedom whiche is from heauen or from aboue first is chaste, after peasible, meake, tretable, full of mercie, and of good fruites, withoute rache or vnaduised iudgement, and simulacion Hitherto haue we rehersed the wordes of Iames. Ponder and iudge now, whether the holy Apostle, did not liuelye describe the fashions, and doctrin of the Anababtistes. For what do they els, but ineth and rayle against other men, and that of a despitefull enuye and bitternes, oppressing thē wt preiudicial sē tence, and iudgemēt?
They promesse to make an aunswere, before any manne, and to geue a reasonable accoumpt of their doctrine and learnyng.
Moreouer that they wyll suffer [Page] them selues patiently to be conuicted of errour.
Why dooe they promesse that whiche thei wil neuer perfourm? Thou thy selfe haste knowen manye (to saye the truthe, they doe all of a pretudiciall sentence, stiflie and with great pertinacy, stād in their owne oppinions which saied, that thei ware sufficiētly tawght. dyd knoledge their erroure, and offered them selues to recante, yea and dyd forswere their errour. And by and by as sone, as they ware come, to their complyces or felowes, thei dyd renewe their heresee, and against their othe, and all honestye besyde, dyd obstinatly defende it, What should we doe with suche men? Paule sayeth: Shunne thou an heretyke, after that thou hast warned hym ōes [Page] or twyse. Their doctrine therfore, is a certaine pertenax contention, and bitter wysdome, suche as Saynt Iames doeth descrybe.
In the meane season, they wyll neuer graunt, thy conclusions to be true.
This is, that I saye thei be more styfe & more obstacle thā doeth be come any christē men, to be. But thou, that haste lyued, most famylyarly wt them knowest wel and perfitly, their foundacions, where vpon they grounde them selues.
No Anababtyst better.
I wolde therfore, my Symon. that thou shouldest now dispute agaynst my conclusions as the Anababtistes are wonte to doe but without stomake and contē cion I wyll endeuoure my selfe to corroborate and streingthen [Page] them with holy scripures, and to proue that they be true.
Be it as thou saiest. For I desire to be taughte. Thou shalte haue me also obediente. so that I may vnderstande and perceiue yt thy doctrine and teachyng is true. ❧
The third treatie or dialoge.
How that the spirite, which repugneth agaynst the spirite, that speaketh in the scriptures, is not from the father of truth, but from the father of lyes the deuels.
Fyrste and formost, I dooe meruell, what moueth the, to put this conclusiō where as after myne oppynion and iudgmēt, it is no nede, therof.
But, it semeth vnto me, to be verye necessarye. For manie of the Anababtistes, doe boaste, I can not tel, what spirite, and father, agaynste the manyfest scriptures. For whan they perceiue them selues, to bee ouer comed, with holye scriptures, and so holden in that they [Page] can, by no waye escape: by and by, they crye oute, sayeng that the spiritee, teacheth them, an other thyng, that is to saye, eyther to holde theyr peace, or to speake forthe some tryflyng matter▪ and that they bee, neyther subiecte, ne bound to the litterall sense, or letter. In the which thyng, they dooe no lesse erre, than the doctoures of the bysshope of Rome, which in matters of fayth, wyll not admyt the scripture to be iudge, but referre al thynges, to theyr interpretation and spiritee. Is not this an hygh blasphemie, that a sinnefull man shoulde presume, to sete hym selfe iudge, ouer the word and wyl of god? asthough he ought not, to bee obedient vnto it, excepte, he were moued, with his owne spiritee, and mocion, [Page] to reiecte, or receiue it. I harde ones a papiste doctour, openly in a disputaciō, saie: that we, whiche teache the gospell, dooe teache the truthe, and dyd alowe our teachynge veary well, but that he coulde not, nor durste subscribe vnto it, exrepte our teachynge were adprobated and alowed, by the bisshoppe of Rome. Beholde my Symon, what abhominacion is this, that a mortall man shulde take vpon hym, to adprobate, & alowe, the diuine and heauenly veritee? and set hym selfe iudge ouer god? Therfore haue I put this conclusion in the forefront because that the Anababtistes, doe for y• moste parte, boast and aduaunce their spirite, vnder such pretence, deceiuyng the simple and rude people.
[Page]Doeth not Paule teache this, that the letter, doeth kylle, and the spirit viuifieth or doeth quieken? ii. Corin. iii And Christe doeth saie. Ioan. xiiii. The spirite shall teache you all truthe. It is spoken by the lorde also, Hieremy. xxxi. Euery man shall teache no more his neyghbour, saiyng: knowe thou the lorde, but all shall knowe hym, from the lowest, to the hyghest: Finally, Iohn dooeth saie: It is no neede, that euery man dooe teache you, but as the vnction teacheth you of all thinges whiche is true and is no lye. What canst thou saye, agaynst so manyfeste scriptures?
To the woordes of Paule I aunsweare thus: That Paul speaketh there of the lawe, whyche [Page] kylleth vs, as he dooeth declare more apertly in the .vii. chap. to the Romains. And by the spirit, he vnderstondeth faith, and the consolacion or comforte of the gospell. That, it is so, the texte of the whole chapter dooeth testifie. Therefore this place helpeth nothyng your errour. For whan we speake of the woorde of god we dooe not vnderstonde the bare and deade letter, or voyde sonnde of it. but the word well and truely vnderstonded, and as it is, in veary dede.
And as, for that, that Chryste dooeth promesse a spyrite vnto his dysciples, teachynge them all thynges, wee dooe admytte and beleue it. But that spyrite can not bee contrarye to Chryste, nor teacheth any other [Page] thyng, than Chryst hath taught Therfore doeth he adde, by and by: teachyng you, what so euer, I haue saied vnto you. What dooe, these thynges perteyne, to the spirite of the Anababtistes, whiche teacheth contrary thynges to the spirite of Christe.
The prophecies of Ioel, and Hieremye, are vnderstonded of that same spirite, that Christe dooeth bothe promesse and geue to his disciples, as it is euidently sene, in the seconde chapiter of the Actes, and the eyght, to the Hebrues. Iohn, in his epistell, whan he speaketh of the vnctyon, dooeth playnely expounde hym selfe, saiynge: I haue written vnto you, that ye bee not deceyued (or that, ye dooe not suffer your selues to be brought in to errour) whyche [Page] thyng, will then come to passe, if ye dooe stedfastely abyde, in the doctrine of the spirite, whiche ye haue harde at the begynnynge, and swarue not at all, from it. The holy ghoste is the spirite of truthe, which canne neither lye, nor repugne against hym selfe, beyng all waies constaunte, vnchaungeable, euery where, lyke vnto hym selfe.
Now, no man can denaye, but that the same euerlastyng, vnchaungeable, and holy spirite, hath inspyred the holy scriptures in to holy mens hertes and myndes. Whereby it foloweth necessarily, that the same spirite, which speaketh agaynste the meanyng of the spirite, that dooeth speake and expresse hym selfe in the diuine scriptures, is not of god, but rather an humaine [Page] mayne affection, whyche, if it bee styffe, maie bee deseruyngly called, a deauelysshe spyryte, as Chryste dooeth proue agaynste the Iues. Iohn. viii. Or canst thou thynke, in thy mynde, that spirite to bee good, whiche contemneth the cleare, manyfeste, pure and holy scriptures? and when by them, he is conuicted of errour, doeth boste an other spirite, whiche shoulde teache cleane cōtrary thinges? Is not this to despise y• spirite of y• scriptures, and to repugne against hym? As though our spirit meaneth truely, and the spirit of the scriptures most falsely? Where haue the Anababtistes learned, to set their spirit against y• scriptures, yea and preferre hym, to the holy worde of god?
[Page]But who hath geuen you this libertee, to iudge al thynges after the litterall sence or letter?
That, we dooe not, as thou doest interprete the letter. But we saie, that the worde of god, conteined in the scriptures of the Bible, is a touche stone, wherby spirites are tried. For what spirite so euer doeth agree with the scriptures, is of god, the father of truthe. And agayne what spirite so euer is contrary to the holy scriptures, is of the dyuelle, the father of lyes. Seyng therfore, that the spyrite of the Anababtistes, wil not bee ruled by the holy scriptures, but preferreth hym selfe, to the woorde of god (callynge by crafte, the woorde of god, a bare letterre) yea and sette [Page] set him selfe iudge ouer it, he cā not be of god. For if he were of god, he would come to light and speake that same thyng, that the holy ghost doeth speake in al the holy scriptures. But now, sith yt he doeth not depende of the scriptures, but will be at his own lybertie, it is a token that it is a craft and subtiltie of the deuell, whiche doeth alwayes scatter & repugne against god.
Thou speakest these thynges mightily and stronglye, but withoute the word of god. And this is your familier custome, to speake many thinges without scriptures. As touching the spirite, what he techeth, I haue brought and alledged places and testimonies oute of the scriptures. But that the spirit ought to be tried by scriptures, or rather mācipated and [Page] bounde vnto them, and not be at his own libertie, it is thy parte for to proue. Or peraduenture thou dost prefer the creature vnto the creatour.
What, and yf I should say also: My spirite hath taught me this thyng. What couldest thou do or say vnto me?
But that is not to aunswere.
Nor ye do not answere sufficiently, when ye bost your spirite, without or agaynst the scriptures. But in this thīg we do learne, that whan it pleaseth you, ye vse the scriptures, & agayne whan ye see to be expede ent, ye boaste, aud aduance your spirit. Whan I affirme that the spirite must be tried by the scriptures, I doe not mancipate nor subdue the creatour vnto y• creature, but I will that the thynge whiche is vncertaine, be tryed & [Page] proued, by yt, which is certaine, and that any spirit, be tried, by the holy spirit of god, that is to saie by the scriptures, whether he agreeth with hym self or not. And if he be like euery where vnto him self to be receiued, if not, to be refused & reiected, as false & deceitful. But whan ye speake of the spirite, ye doe vnderstond a bare creature. For your spirit is not the holy ghost, but a carnall affection.
Ye dooe yet without any scriptures of the Bible enhaunce and magnifie, the letter.
Not so, but rather, we here ground ourselues, bothe vpon ye scriptures of god, and vpon examples.
Shew therfore, yt the truthe, muste be tryed, by the scriptures, & not rather wt a fre spirit, without scriptures.
By thy wordes, doe [Page] I perceine, what thinge doeth begile you, that is, yt ye do seuer these .ii. thinges, beyng vnited & inuisebly knitted together, yt is to saie, the spirite & the scriptures, which can nor ought to be separated asunder, the one from ye other. For whē we name ye scriptures, we doe vnderstande ye expressed worde of yt spirit. For as ye voice, or sound of ye worde, can in no wise be separated, from ye lyuely breth of ye liuing creature So ye scriptures can not be diuided from ye spirit yt inspireth thē for ye scripture, is ye expressed wil of god, but now wil I bryng ye testimonies & places wt thou requirest, our lord Iesu Christ, vnto whom ye heuēly father, did geue witnes from heuen, & who hath receiued the holy ghost, after no measure, did not despise ye sciptures, in so muche that he dyd [Page] corroborate all his saiynges, by them onely, and did commaund that the Iewes should trye both his woordes and factes, by the scriptures. Ihon. v. and Luke xvi. He biddeth them to lyfte vp their eyes to Moyses & the prophetes, and not to apparaunte spirites. He reprouyng also the Saduceis, did shewe that this was the cause of their errour, be cause that they were ignoraunt in scriptures, or neglected them Mark .xii. The Apostles (as we may vnderstand by the booke of the Actes) did receiue abundātly in the beginyng, the holy gost & that by a sertaine visible tokē. And yet not withstandyng, did thei not therfore forsake or contēne ye scriptures, nor boste their spirite against thē. But rather did proue & strengthen all their [Page] sermons, with the worde of god preachyng nothyng els, but the pure and playne scriptures. These thynges are euydently proued, by the epistels of Peter. Iohn doeth plainely shewe and teache that the spirites owght, to be tried, whether thei bee of god or not .i. Io. iiii. Wherby, it is euydent enowgh, that spirites owght to be tried, and that thei be not so free, as the Anahabtistes will haue them. And how thei muste bee proued, it is manifestly declared in yt place. Paule whiche was rauisshed, in to the thyrde heauen, and dyd learne his gospel of Iesu Christ, beyng hym selfe, the chosen vessel of god, full of the holy ghost, and heauenly wisedome, neuer the lesse before the kyng Agrippa, he doeth testify, that he dyd [Page] teache nothyng beside Moises, and the prophetes. Act. xxvi. In the epistell to the Galathians, ye first chapter, he saieth thus: if I, or an angel of heauen, shulde preach vnto you, any other thīg, then ye haue harde, let it be anathema, or acursed, He also warnyng and teachyng Tymothe, that be shoulde beware of false and erroneous doctrines, dyd directe and sende hym, to the redyng of scriptures. But reade thou the iii. chapiter of the seconde epistell, to Tymothe, and it shall appere, what we owght to iudge and thynke of the Anababtistes secte, what of the spirite, and of the scriptures.
That place, is knowen well enowghe, and I am almost persuaded. But this vexed my mynde, that Paule saieth that [Page] a spirituall man, iudgeth all thynges, but he is iudged of no body.
I longe to knowe of the, of what spirite, Paule doeth speake there.
But I haue leauer to heare it, of the
Considre the woordes, yt go before. For he saieth thus: We haue not receiued the spirit of the world, but the spirit, whiche is of god, that we may know what thynges, haue ben geuen vnto vs by Chryst.
But to what purpose did Paul speke here, of the holy ghost.
I aske of the, wheather yt same selfe spirite dyd not inspyre the scriptures.
Truely, that same selfe spirite.
Seyng therfore, that it is all one, and bothe the same spirite, that Paule speaketh of here, and that whiche speaketh in the [Page] scriptures, haue I not proued, that Paule, by a spirituall man did not vnderstond hym, which boasteth, I can not tell, what spirite, despisyng in the meane season the scriptures, but suche a spirituall man, as is and will be ruled and gouerned by the holy ghost, that waie, that he sheweth and expresseth hym selfe, in the holy scriptures? He therfore that striueth againste the holy scripture and inspiracyon of the holy ghost, can not bee that spirituall man, whome Paule doeth speke of. Now, if he be not spirituall, he can not iudge, but he muste be iudged. The Anababtistes therfore can iudge nothyng, but ought to bee iudged and tryed, by the worde of god. Hathe not here the spirite of the Anababtistes lost bothe his win [Page] ges? But I do remembre other ii. places, whiche dooe vtterly stoppe the mouthes of the Catababtistes. The first is, in the .x. chapiter of the Actes, touchyng Cornelius the centurion, which although he was elected by god, yet not withstandyng, beyng so tawght by the angell, did sende messangers, to fetche Peter, yt he migh heare by hym, the preachīg of our sauiour Iesu christ. If that, the spirite should disanulle and abolisshe the scriptures, it shulde folow, yt this outwarde preachyng and such like thinges, wer done in vaine. The other is in the .xvi. chapiter, concernyng the Thessaloniens, whiche after that thei had harde the preachyng of Paule, dyd daily seke and serche the scriptures, to knowe, wheather Paule dyd [Page] teache true or not. Which thing, thei wolde not haue done, if the spirites shoulde not be tried by the scriptures wherefore what so euer the Anababtistes dooe teache concernyng this thynge, is false and erroneous, and not vnlike vnto the errour of Montanus.
What monstruous thyng is yt?
This Montanus about .xiii. hundred yeres a go, was a great heretike, who did almost speake of the spirite, as the Anababtistes dooe. For thei do cal in again, the old & abolisshed errours, as it shall appere hereafter.
Go forth I praie ye, and let vs discusse the argumentes of the second conclusion. For I can not beleue that none of the saynttes (whiche thyng thou doest affirme stifly) did thruste them selues, into [Page] the office of common preachers, excepte thei were called. What other thyng is this, but (as the bisshop of Rome hath done in times paste) to hyde the truthe frome the commons, that none, saue onely thei, that are learned, dare speake and talke of it? Where as, not withstandynge, god did manifest him self to the littell ones and not to the wise. Mathew. xi.
I will doe it gladly, but I wil first confute that, which thou bryngest of the learned, & of the symple. For it is not conuenient, that I shulde passe ouer these thynges vnspoken, sithe that therwith ye doe blynd the eyes of the simple and rude people.
The .iiii. treatie, or dialoge touchynge simplicitee and erudicion.
IS this, to blynde the eies of the symple, & rude people, Chryste hym selfe, did saie so, when he gaue thankes vnto his father, because y• he hath reuelated & shewed such high, godly and diuine misteries, not to the wises, but to the litell ones, & to the simple. Ma. xi. And againe, he did not chose learned men but simple and idiots, to be his apostels .i. Cor. i. Therfore we haue no neede of great learnyng, but the simpler that any man is, the more apte is he, to this office.
It is manifeste and euident, that ye vnderstonde not the woordes [Page] of Chryst. For if by the symple, he shulde vnderstond them, that lacke wisedome and learnynge (for so ye expounde the wordes of Christ) truely no man shulde be more apt, than fooles and diserdes, whiche be in dede ignoraunt in all maner of thinges. But euery man dooeth see, that it is against al reason, to thinke any such thyng. Therfore Christ vnderstondeth by simplicitee an other thyng.
Tell you what it is.
He is called a symple man, not he that is without witte, without reason and wisdome, but he whiche is playne and sincere, and without fraude, he whiche is good, and true inwardly in his herte, beynge without crafte and deceit. Elles it woulde come to passe, that euery man shoulde defende [Page] his errour, by ignorancie. Whiche thyng, what coulde be elles, but a carnall malice or libertee, wherby euery man woulde begynne and goe about, to boaste and sette forthe hs ignorancie, and therewith to defende his errours? Who did euer see, suche temerarious audacitee, as these shamefull rennegates dooe vse? that with theyr ignorancie and rudenesse dare defende any thynge? By ignorauncy truely, errours are detected, and not confyrmed.
Yet, the apostels were ignoraunt and vnlearned, nor we dooe not reade, that Chryst did choose any that were learned.
Truely thei were endued with such simplicitee, as we haue spoken of afore. But they were not vnlerned and ignoraunt. For they [Page] were familiarly cōuersant with Chryste, aboue three yeares, wt Christ, I say, in whom are, all y• treasures wisdō of & knowlage, yea, which is hymself, yt eternal wisedome of y• heauenly father. Of this fountaine drāke they abundantly, by this maister, wer thei instituted and tawght, and at lengthe were so endued, and illuminated with the holy ghost that they were [...]unnynge in all tonges & scriptures. That may be sene, bothe by their writyngs and also by theyr actes. As for that, that thou denaiest, y• christ did call none, whiche were learned, doest thou not repugne here agaīst y• manifest truthe? Paull was excedyngly well lerned.
Barnabas, Gamaliell, Nicodedemus, & Apollo y• Alexandrian were great clerkes. That in the [Page] meane season, I shulde passe ouer all the other, that is to saie, Moises, whiche was learned in al the sciences of the Egipcians Steauen, Esaie, Timothe, loke better vpon the .xiii. chap. of the first epistel, to the Corinthians, and vpon the first chap. of the epistell, to Citus, and thou shalt fynde what erudicion and learnynge an ouerseer or bisshoppe ought to haue. Therfore, these arrogant & presumptuous Anababtistes, can not excuse nor defende, their impudent ignorancie, by simplenes, but that it is alredy manifest vnto the world yt they are geuen into a reprobate sence, as thei, that be not ashamed, to boast, and to set forth vnto all men, their ignorancie, in stede of good learnynge, as though children, do not smel alredy, [Page] their craft & subtiltee. But in y• meane seasō, no man ought thus, to interprete our saiynges as though we shuld speake here, of them, that are falsely, called learned men. For we speake of such, as haue ben taught, by god & to the glory of god. Of whom, there were many, in the primitiue churche, as Pātonus, Tertulian, Cyprian, Lactantius, Augustine, and many other.
Thou speakeste, with good reasō. For we ought not to think that Chryste did commend such simplicitee, wherby the vnconnynger that a man is, the bolder he shoulde be. As many, whiche though thei can scarsely reade y• vulgare tonge, yet not withstandyng, doe without shame, ingerate & thrust them selues, in to y• office of preachers, stamering [Page] most foolysshely in the common pulpit, But because thei shulde not be founde to bee ignoraunt, in some thyng: they begyn first to excuse their ignorancie, with such woordes. Be not ye offended, obretherne, that I am ignorant and vnlearned. For the father, doeth manifest hym selfe to the symple and vnlerned. Finally, seyng that Christe, doeth promesse, to his disciples suche wisedome, and eloquence, that their aduersaries, should not be able to withstond it (where as, on the contrary part, these men doe recken their ignorancie, to be a glorious thyng vnto them) I mai easily perceiue, that these are not suche simple persons as Chryste doeth speake of, but rather such, as doe clothe them selues, in sheapes skinnes, faining [Page] them selues, to be sheapes, but inwardely, within theyr hertes, are rauenyng wolues. But now, I praye the, to take that awaye quickely, whyche offendeth me in the seconde conclusion.
❧
The .v. treatie or dialoge.
Of the vocacion and office of preachers, againste them, that ingerate them selues beynge vncalled.
AS for that, that thou gatherest, by this cō clusion, y• so, it shulde not, be iaufull for euery man, to speake and talke of god, thou goest far out of the waie, and doest not vn derstond my saiynges. I speake of common preachyng, and not of priuate communicacion or talke. For he that taketh vpon hym to be a common preacher, not being called, doeth rauen as he, that maketh hym selfe, by his owne authoritee, a kyng or gouernour, makyng & callyng together a particuler Senate or [Page] counseill, & beginneth thus, of his owne heade, to rule and administrate the common welthe, commaunding, and forbiddyng what so euer pleaseth him. Truly, no man, can dooe this, but yt he shalbe accused, not onely of folishenesse & disobedience, but also of tumultee, and high treason. Elles, we do not denaie, but yt euery man maie talke of god, yea & maie synge of him, accordyng to ye doctrine of Paule .iiii. Ephesy. And the more, yt it is done, the better we alow it. But to separate him self frō y• church to seke woods & corners, & there to assemble a company, to institute & ordein sectes and to take vpon them selues, beyng vncalled, & vnsent, the office of preachers: not onely, it hath no example, in y• holy scriptures, but [Page] hath ben iudged and condemned alwais as heretikall. But we will now, corroborate and strength these saiynges, with holy scripture. In the epist. to the Rom. x. chap. Paule teacheth after this maner: who so euer calleth vpon the name of the lorde, shalbe saued. But how can thei call vpon hym, in whome they haue not belued? and how shal thei beleue in hym, of whom thei haue not harde? And how can they heare without a preacher? And agayne how shal thei prea: the, except thei be sent? By these wordes of Paule, we maie perceiue, that sendyng is veary necessary, whiche doeth not equally pertaine vnto all men. For Paule .i. Corin. xii saieth, that there be many giftes. And eauen as the body is one thynge, [Page] and hath many lymmes, which lymmes, though thei belong all to one body, yet neuerthelesse, haue not all owne offyce, in the body, so it is in the churche, and misticall body of Chryste. God dyd putte and ordeyne some, in the churche, to be apostels, some to bee prophetes and interpretours of scriptures, some to bee teachers, some to bee potestates and rulers, summe to haue the giftes of healynge, summe to minister to the poore, summe to gouerne, and summe agayne to haue the knowledge of tonges. If so bee, that the offyce of teachyng, shulde equally perteine vnto al men: Paul would haue sayed, that god hadde ordeyned all, to bee prophettes, and teachers, but he sayeth: he hathe ordeyned summe to bee [Page] apostels. &c. Why dare then the Anababtistes presume so much, as for to set them selues forthe, by their own autoritee, to preache & to teach, againste the doctrine of Paule? Hebrues .v. No man (saieth he) doeth vsurpe, or presumptuousli take that honor vnto hym selfe, but he, which is called by god, as Aarō, so christ did not glorifie hym selfe to bee made bisshoppe, but he that saied vnto hym. Thou art my sonne and to daye haue I begotten the. And in an other place: Thou arte a priest for euer, after the order of Melchysedecke. After this maner dooeth Iohn Babtiste, testifye of the mission and sendynge of Chryste in the fyrste, and thyrde chapiter of Iohn. And of his owne sendyng, doeth he hym selfe speake, [Page] in the .i. cha. of Iohn, saiynge: There was a man sente by god, whose name was Iohn when he was also asked, by what authoritee he did teache and babtize, he did bryng forthe out of Esaie and Malachie, a testimony and witnesse of his mission and sendyng. So the Apostelles were bothe called and sent, as it appeareth, by the x. and .xxviii. of Mathew, by y• last of Mar. and .xx. of Io. Paule doeth testifie in y• begynnyng of his epistels, and specially in the epistell to y• Galathiās, that he was called. In the .xiii. of the Act. he with Barnabas, is segregated by the holy ghost and sent to preache. In Moises also, & in all the prophetes their mission and sendyng is manifested. But agaynst them that dooe renne, beyng not called, [Page] and without sendyng doe preache, in the .xxiii. of Hieremy, the lorde speaketh thus Thei did renne, but I sent them not. Therfore, I do thynke, that this conclusion is sufficiently proued, and that it is manifeste enough, that the Anababristes dooe not in this thyng, behaue them selues wel and godly, whiche, thowgh thei be not called, doingerate and thrust them selues, in to the office of preachers Which thyng (as we doe reade) was neuer done by none of the Saintes.
All this that thou hast brought, dooeth nothyng agaynste the Anababtistes For thei saie, that thei bee sent, by the father, and by the holy ghost.
To what thing or for what pourpose. Symo [...]. To teache the truthe, to preache [Page] of god, and to rebuke synne. Ioiada. It is proued before (as thou thy selfe haste graunted) that we dooe, the same thynge, in those places, where the gospell is preached. What neede haue we then of this mission, and sendynge of the Anababtistes. To these places where the gospell is preached, god dooeth not sende men to plante and set errours, to moue sedicion, and to teache contrary doctrine, to the truthe, to separat and make diuision in the churche. But the Anababtistes, dooe all these thynges, therfore, they bee not sente by god. For god, is not the god of dyssencion, but of peace, and concorde, .i. Corin. xiiii.
Thei saie alwaies, that they bee sente of god.
Thei doe saie so in dede, [Page] but not truely. For Sathan can transforme and transfigurate hym selfe into an angell of light ii. Corin .xi. but he is not therfore a good aungell.
Is it not written in the .iix. cha. of Iohn, that he, which is of god speaketh the woorde of god? the Anababtistes dooe preache the worde of god, therfore, they bee sent of god.
Arrius dyd preache the worde of god. That is to saye, the father is greaterthan I am, ergo he was sent by god.
Not so.
Is not this the worde of god, the father, is greatterthan I am?
He dyd preache the worde of god beyng falsely vnderstonded, wrethyng and wrastynge the scriptures, ergo he was not sent, of god.
The Anababtistes dooe [Page] the same, the refore they bee not sent by god, though, they dooe neuer so muche boast and crake, that thei doe preache the truthe and worde of god. Which thing, all the heretikes dyd before, and Sathan also dooeth vsurpe the worde of god, Mathew .iiii. but it foloweth not, that he is sent by god. That saiynge, whyche thou hast brought out of the .iii. chapiter of Iohn, perteyneth onely to Chryste, who because y• he was come frome god, hath perfite knowlage, of diuine and heauenly thynges. Which thing Iohn Babtiste, goeth about to proue to his disciples.
The Anababtistes doe saie, that ye doe deprauate the scriptures.
It skylleth not what they saie, whyche are nothynge shamed to lye, as it shall manyfestly [Page] appere hereafter. For sythe that by this authoritee taken out of the. iii chapiter of Iohn, and applied to Chryste alone, thei adscribe vnto them selues that, which belongeth to Chryste onely: who dooeth not perceiue and see, that thei be enemies of the truthe. We know, what sklanderous wordes thei doe vomite out, and speake agaynste vs, callyng vs theues, robbers, Antichristes, false prophetes, and seductors. We doe impute this to the weakenesse of the flesshe, and forbeare for Chrystes sake. We might cleare our selues, if nede were, & proue that thei doe beelye vs. But so thei haue nede to proue, y• thei be sent of god, by other thinges thē by sklanderous wordes and railinges.
I can not saie none [Page] other, but that I haue harde them saie, that thei are sent of god.
No doubt there is, but that thei be ignoraunt, and know not, whiche waie, god doeth call, & what are the tokens and signes of vocacion and sendyng. For thei, that are called & sent of god, are manifested by certaine tokens and signes whiche doe folow, that it maie appeare, that thei be truely called and sent either by miracles, or by manifest vocacion and sendynge, but specially by dexteritee or aptenesse, integreted of lyfe, constauncy and stedfastnesse, erudicion and learnynge, woorthy suche sendynge and vocacion.
what, and if ye dooe faine all this, without scriptures?
I wyll proue all, that I haue [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] saied by the worde of god. A littell afore, that Chryste did departe from his apostels, he did sende them, vnto the worlde, to preache the gospel, vnto all cretures, but before, yt thei shoulde take in honde this offyce, they shulde tary a while in Nierusalem till they were endued with grace frome aboue. For he dyd promise vnto them, to sende the promised spirit and comfort our of the father vpon them. And after, that thei had ones receiued the holy ghost, with it, thei did receiue, the knowlage of all sciences, speches, & tongues. Luc. xxiiii. Act. ii. whan Moises dyd draw backe, and did bryng many excuses, knowledgyng hym selfe, to bee without vtterance, vneloquent, chyldisshe, and vnmete for that offyce, that god [Page] woulde haue sent hym to: the lord, did promise, that he would be in his mouth, as, he dyd also promise to his apostelles, suche mouth and wisedome, that no man shoulde bee able to resyste agaynste it. Mathew .x. Paule writynge to Tymothe and Titus, concernyng the election of bysshoppes, requireth such one, as, is apte to teache, able to exhorte with wholsome doctrine, whyche can reuycte, and confounde them, that resyste and withsaie the truthe .i. Timothe, iii. Titus .i. There Paule doeth forbydde, that none of them, whyche were newly conuerted, shoulde be admitted to the office of a preacher. Netherto, haue I brought places and testimonies out of the scriptures, touchyng the learnyng, that ought [Page] to be in an ouerseer or bysshop. Now shall we heare, what the scriptures doe testifie and witnesse concernyng the miracles of them, that are sent. We dooe therfore alleage here the wonders, that Moyses did shewe, in Egypte and other innnmerable signes, and tokens, that bee written in the Actes, the manifeste imposicion of handes, and that thei dyd receiue the holy ghost visebly. Moreouer that thei, whiche be sent, ought to be laufully elected and chosen by a common assent, we dooe dryng the first chapiter of the Attes, vpon the election of Mathias the vii. and .xiii. of the Actes vpon the election of Steuen Paule and Barnabas. The .xiii. chap. also of the Actes doeth manifestly shewe, that Paule and Barnabas, [Page] when thei had created, thorow all the churches by a generall election priestes or seniours, laiyng their handes vpon them, and had made theyr praiers with fastyng, did committe them vnto the lorde, in whome thei had beleued. Now thou seest, my Symon, that in y• times of the Apostels. euery man dyd not rasshely aduaunce nor sette for the hym selfe to preache. For if it hadde ben so, what shoulde haue neaded any election, and imposicion of handes? But election was made after praiers & fastyng. The same is also written in the epistell to Titus.
What, & if thou fyndest all such thynges, among the Anababtistes?
Not y• lesse iote, of al y• aboue rehersed thīges, ergo thei are not sēt by god, but sēsualitee [Page] and ipmpudent boldenesse, dyd impell & moue them. For, what myracles doe thei? except, these are, to be called miracles, that they, with their pernicious doctrine, dooe brynge men, out of their right, and godly minde, in to starke madnesse, or, that thei, make the gammons, and legges of bakon, hangynge in the larders, of the symple and poore people, inuisible? What learnynge, should we loke for, where rudenes, and (as thei do speake themselues) simplicitee, is taken for hyghe rudicion? I dooe passe ouer here, many of them, whiche can scarcely reade, yea and what wyll ye saie of them, y• can reade no maner of thyng Are not these, y• neophites (by y• neophites, I meane not onely them, that are newly conuerted, [Page] but such as doe lacke learnyng) that Paule do reiecte? But thei promote them, that by all their lyues tyme, did neuer reade the Bybles, hauyng onely in readinesse, certaine sentences, not vnderstonded, which beyng, either plucked out, of al partes of scripture, or stolen, or els borowed, of their gydes & leaders, thei dooe wrethe, wrast & turne to contencion, wt all maledicence, & reuilyng. And so, stondyng among the simple people, haue alwais in their tonges endes, y• father of heauen and the spirite. What name, my Symon, maie conueniently, be geuen vnto them? I maie not call them apostels, for thei are not sent, by god. Again, thei do not preache wher nothīn hath ben yet preached of god but where y• people, hath ben a long [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] season, & with the great labour of the true and faithfull ministers, taught the waie of truthe there doe thei breake in, destroiyng, peruertyng, &, as a storme or tempest, stirryng vp, all thinges, makyng the commons so perplexed, and doubtfull, that thei know neither ende nor begynnyng. If any man, shoulde call them prophetes and expositours of the scriptures, it were none other thyng, but to call a filthy swine, an excellent & cunning Musician. For thei are ignorant in al maner of tongues, in so muche, that thei doe contemne them, being content with y• vulgare tongue onely, If thou callest thē doctours, they know nothynge lesse, than the right waie and trade of teachyng, Besides, that thei want the truthe, [Page] whiche is chiefly required in a teacher. But paraduenture, thei will be called bishops and sheapherdes. Why do y• lacke then al suche excellent giftes, as Paule requireth in a teacher or bishop In so much that thei be vnlearned, striuers, contencious and rude neophites? Briefly they haue nothyng, that perteine to y• office of a teacher. Wherby any man maie perceiue, that the Anababtistes, are suche, as doe send them selues, beyng perplexed, sedicious debatefull, & ambitious heretykes.
Thei be bothe chosen, and sent.
By whome?
By their church Moreouer, one brother, dooeth lai his hand vpō y• other, geuing hym ful power & autoritee.
This sendyng, & election, maketh me, to remēbre y• bishop of [Page] Rome, for after, that the bisshop of Rome, dyd ones get & pourchasse vnto hym selfe, thorowgh disobedience, tirannie and pernicious crafte, suche great power: by and by, dyd he promote to bisshoprykes, euery mule keper, bawdes and blody souldyours▪ But, who did teache them, to seuer and diuide the churche, beynge vnited, and glued with faithe, and charitee? seynge that there is but one God, one faythe one babtyme, and one churche? Who hathe sent the authours of this secte, to make and congregate a new churche? Truely, amulacion, enuy, strife, contencion, auaryce, ambicion, and stiffe pertinacy. I could wel and sufficiently proue all these thynges. except, I shoulde here wittyngly, spare some people. [Page] Their Churche therfore, is not the Churche of God, but a certayne secte, and congregacion of styffenecked and disobedient people, among whom, there is no more iust election, then is in the company of rebelles & traytours, whiche forsakyng their owne prince or gouernour, doo retchely, & without aduisement chuse, thys man or that man, to be their Capitayne. But let vs graunt, that it is a Church, yet not withstandyng, they erre in election, whiche is not vsed among them, accordyng to the preceptes of the apostle, Donatus, dyd gather a particuler Church. Nonatus lykewyse, & bothe in Affrica. And yet not withstandynge, none of theim both, was called or sent by god. And their Churche also, were [Page] no Churches, but conuenticles or assembles of Heretikes.
What thynkest thou by the saiyng of s, Paule .i. Corin. xiiii. where he doth geue free libertie, vnto all men to preache, or interprete the Scriptures.
I am of the same selfe opinion, that Paule is: Two or three (sayth he) may speake in the church: Let the other heare and iudge. Finally, if it be reuelated to an other syttyng by, let the other holde his peace.
And by and by it followeth: For ye may al prophecy, one after another, that all may learne and haue cousolacion.
By these wordes, it appeareth. that Paule dothe not geue libertie to euery man, to preache what he listeth, whē he nameth ii. or .iii. and byddeth the other [Page] to heare, & to geue attendance to that that the Prophetes (in the newe Testament, suche, as do expounde the scriptures are called Prophetes) do expounde and set furthe out of the scriptures. Nor he doth not gyue lysence to the hearers, to interrupte the sermons of the Prophetes, excepte it be, when any thyng is lefte or peruersly expounded by the Prophet, or interpretor. By this, it foloweth, that it is not semely ne comely, that any mā shuld interrupt, if the truthe be sufficiētly enucleated & shewed, muche lesse, that any man shoulde, vnder suche pretence and colour sewe in, or bring in his errors. I doo see & perceiue, that the effecte of the matter doeth consist, in thys thyng: If it be necessary, if any [Page] thyng be omitted and lefte, by them that are Prophetes, that oughte not to bee omitted, or whiche beynge lefte, maye dooe harme: and agayne, which being shewed, may edifi the churche, that then it may be shewed vnto them, by any mā, but that, with al sobrenesse and charitie. If nothing be wanting or lackynge, all the audience to holde their ptace.
Thou takest the ryght sense of it. For it foloweth by and by: The spirite of the Prophetes, is subiect to the Prophetes. For God is not the auctor of confusiō, but of peace. The Holy ghost doth not breake furth rashely, & with affection and stryfe, but is treatable: nor he dooeth not styffely contende for euery lyght matter, but suffereth him self to be instructed, [Page] and taughte: & so geueth easely place, to him that hathe better vnderstandyng. But the Anababtistes are farre from al such thinges, boastyng neuerthelesse a spirit, but as Iudas did boast his Apostleship: sayut Iames, dyd not without a cause, warne vs, saiyng: Let not many masters be among you, knowynge that we shall receyue greatter dampnaciō or iudgement, that is to say: we that are teachers.
But here thou haste brought me into a greter dout: For now I aske the: Whether of theym two▪ is greatter, the Prophet. vnto whom the spirit is subiect, or the spirit? If thou sayest, that man is gretter, then the spirite, beware that thou doest not attribute to much to a mortall and frayle man. If the [Page] spirite is hygher, how can that thyng, which is gretter, be subiecte to a thyng, that is lesse. If so bee, that thou preferrest the spirite vnto men, & agayne wyll haue the saiyng of Paule to be true, I do not perceiue, by what reason it can stande. Or howe can a man be greatter, then the Spirite, whiche maketh hym a Prophet?
Thou dooest aske righte well this question. But it is to be noted, that Paul doeth not here take the spirite for the holy ghost, whiche is the thyrde persone in trinitie, but for the gyfte & operacion of the spirite of God. The sense and meanyng of this place, is therfore, that the gyfte of prophecy, is so in the power of the Prophet, that hath it, that he maye bothe speake, & holde his peace, [Page] in the congregacion of the sayntes, when, and as long, as it is expedient for the hearers. For they are not so instructed and moued, with the spirit, as mad, and phantasticall men are, that they shoulde all cryout at once, with an vnsemely clamor, murmuryng one agaynst another, with a debatefull contencion & stryfe: For so, one coulde not vnderstande another. The spirite of God is gentle, treatable. and peasable, not stirrynge or mouyng any man to contenciō, and debate, but to peace and vnytie. Wherfore he sayeth: ye may Prophecy all, one after another. To the which exposiciō, Theophilactus, agreith, interpretynge this place, after thys maner: The spirite, that is to say, the grace of the holy ghost, [Page] which is in thee, the operacion or workyng, that hath inuaded thee, is subiecte to the gyfte or grace of another man, which is moued to Prophecy, that is to say, dothe geue place & hearing. But now, if thou be so pleased, let vs go aboute the thirde Conclusion.
I am well content, begynne thou.
The. VI. Treatyse or Dialogue.
Of the Vnitie of the Churche, against the Sectes of the Anabaptistes.
IChynke, that thou wylt say nothyng agaynst the thyrd conclusion: For, what canne be sayde more truly, then that Christ, and his Apostles, dyd alwayes congregate, or assemble the Churche, and that thei dyd neuer tumultuate or moue sedision, for outwarde and temporall thynges. Or is there any man, that can say the contrarye?
I wyl shew hym vnto the by & by, that is to say, Christ, whiche dothe saye: I am come, not to bring peace, but the swoorde.
Thou dooest writhe and wrest the wordes of Christ: For he speaketh nor these wordes of his Churche, that they shoulde disagree within themselues, as the Anabaptistes do moue tumulte, in those churches, where Christ and the Gospell is preached sincerely, but doth expres the nature of the infidels, whiche doo persecute the faythfull. For, whersoeuer Christ is preched, they that are godly, do receyue and embrace him gladly: and they that are vngodly, doo bothe let and persecute Christ and his Disciples. Now Christ doth cal this discenciō a sword: which sworde is not among the godly in the Churche: but the infidels do vse it agaynst them that ar godly. Dothe not Esaie say, that there is no peace to the [Page] vngodly. The cognisaunce or badge of them that ar godly, is Charitie, Peace, and Concord. Wherfore, the Lorde, dothe call them, that be peasable, or loue peace, blessed, and chyldren of God. Mat. v.
I do easely graunte, that peace and vnitie ought to be, in the Church. But that Christ, and hys Apostles dyd neuer moue sediciō for temporall thynges, thou doest affirme it scantly.
yea, and truly also, or elles shewe thou the contrary.
In the .xv. chap. of the Actes, we do reade that Paule and Barnabas, had no small discencion, and reasonyng agaynst them, which dyd teache Circumsicion. Who wyll deny, circumcision to be an outwarde thyng?
I vnderstande & call outward thynges, [Page] that dooe helpe nothyng to our saluacion, perteining to the body, more, then to the soule, and which being necessari to the body, do, in processe of tyme, waxe olde, waste, and consume away, suche as be, condicion, rychesse, and grosse elementes of thys worlde. But circumcision, was not taught by the false prophetes, as an outwarde thyng, but as a necessary & needeful thyng to saluacion: which thei dyd very vrgently and instantly persuade, that it shoulde bee obserued & kepte, yea, and all the whole law besyde. Hereof, dyd ryse the disputacion, whche is written of, in the xv. chap. of the Actes Els Paule dyd circumcise, Timothie, for peace and tranquilitie sake, and because that he woulde not offende certayne [Page] weake bretherne, in the Churche: but after that, some men dyd vrgently bring in, circumcison, as necessary, Paule dyd greatly repugne, & woulde not suffer Titus to be circumcized .xvi. of the Actes .ii. Galat. This sediciō therfore that thou aledgest here, hathe a greatter cause, then an outwarde thyng.
Howe darest thou call richesse outwarde thinges, which do exclude a mā from the kyngdome of Heauen? For Christ sayeth that it is easyer for a camell, to go thoroughe the eye of a nydle. then for a ryche man to entre into the kyngdome of Heuen.
We doo know well inoughe the false sighynges and teares of the Crocodyle, which, these light and inconstant Anababtistes, do poure doune daily, [Page] dispisynge richesse, none other wyse, then the Foxe, dyd in tymes past dispyse, the sweete grapes, that she could not come by. Richesse, are by them selues nether good, nor euyll, but the vse, dothe make theim either good, or euyll. If thyne eye be simple, and lyghtsome, all the body shal be lyghtsome: but if thyne eye be wycked and euyll, all thy body shall be darkenesse. Mat. vi. Therfore, if a riche mā be faithfull and godly, the richesse that he hathe, be good, and that, by reason of the good vse. If the master or owner of the richesse, is vnfaythful or an infidell, his richesse are nought. Luke .xvi. Such, do christ speake of, when he bringeth in, the similitude of the camell. and of the eye of the nedle. There wer innumerable, [Page] bothe in the olde & newe Testament, whiche, in great richesse were called no small frendes of God: as Noe, Abraham, Lot, Isaac, Iacob. Iob, Ioseph, &c. Whiche in the myddest of their rychesse, dyd cleaue vnto God, with a sincere harte, and good fayth. Loke what opiniō Paul hathe of this thyng, and what he writeth of it .i. Timoth. vi. Therfore, I care not what these hipocrites doo bable and prate, sith that the richemen may doo good to the poore, in Christes Churche, whiche occasion they that haue no richesse doo lacke. To what purpose or intent doo then these mad braines, trouble all the worlde for trifelyng and vnnecessary thyngꝭ? I do know sum, which, if thei had as much as they do lacke, thorough their [Page] owne negligence and slugherdnesse, they woulde fynde by and by a way, to iustify their vniust and euyll gotten goodes.
I doo let that passe, I pray the, to proue the seconde conclusion. Peraduenture I shall learne somewhat by it.
That Christ dyd neuer cause tumult, for outwarde thynges, but dyd alwayes study to peace & tranquilitie, we wyl bring the .xvii. of Mathew, where he speaketh to Peter after this maner: Lest we do offēd them (that is to say, that do receyue the didragme) go thy waye to the sea, & cast in, thy hoke, and the fyrst fysh that cometh, open his mouth, & thou shalt fynde a stater, take it and geue it for the & me. In the. xxii of Math, when he was asked, of the yearely tribute, that was [Page] payed vnto Ceasar, he did so fly from tumulte, that he dyd iyone bothe god and Ceasar togither, biddyng them to pay their duty to eche of them. Nor, he dyd not condempne them, that dyd receyue. Nor agayne he dyd not say: Blessed are they, which doo geue. He dyd not say: ye owe nothyng by Goddes law, but notwithst andyng geue: wo be, vnto hym, that dothe receyue. In the .xiii. of Iohn, Christ doth so teache hys Disciples: I geue you a new cōmaūdement, that ye loue eche other, as I haue loued you. By this, shall all men know that ye be my Disciples, if ye loue eche other. And incontinent in that long sermon that he made vnto his Disciples, after his Maundy, he doth chefely speake of the Spirite of the [Page] faythfull. And a lytell afore, he shoulde sende his Apostles, he dyd saye: Peace vnto you, as my father hathe sent me, so I sende you. The .xiiii. chap. Rom. Paule sayeth: The kyngdome of God, is neyther meate nor drinke, but rightousnesse, peace and gladnesse in the holy ghost. For, he that serueth vnto christ in those thyngꝭ, is accepted both before GOD, and before men. Therfore, let vs followe that, whiche belongeth to peace, and edifieng, one towarde another. In the .i. Cor. i. he dothe exhorte the Corinthiās, after this maner: I beseche you, brethren, in the name of oure Lorde Ihesu Christ, that ye dooe speake all one thyng, and that there be no dissenciōs among you, but that yee bee one whole bodye, of one [Page] mynde & opinion. Let no suche contenciōs be among you, that one shoulde say: I am Cephas disciple, another, I am Pauls: an other, I am Christes. Is Christ diuided: was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptised, in the name of Paule? When ye do say so, ar ye not yet carnal? Moreouer, loke, & consider what Paul writeth in the xii. cha. to the Cori. exhortyng them to concorde & charitie, by the exemple of the body and the lymmes. In the .xiiii. he sayeth apartelye, that God is not aucthor of discencion, but of concorde and peace, whiche thyng may be sene, in the Churches of the faythfull. In the .iiii. to the Ephesians, Paule doeth exhort vs, to behaue oure selues, and walke so, as it doeth become the [Page] vocacion wherwith, we are called, with all obeisaunce & lowlynesse, with gentlenes of hert, forbearing eche other thorough charitie, and that we shoulde studye to kepe the vnitie of the spirite by the bounde of peace, beyng (sayth he) one body & one spirite, as yee are called in one hope, of your vocacion. There is but one Lorde, one fayth, one Baptisme, one God and father of vs all▪ &c. In the▪ ii. chap. to the Philippians, with lyke study, exhorteth he, the faythfull to be of lyke affection, to haue betwene them selfes, loue & charitie, to be of lyke mynde & lyke iudgement, and that nothyng shoulde be doone among them, by contencion or vayneglorye. But by humilitie & lowlynesse of hearte, euerye man shoulde [Page] thynke an other mā, to be more excellent, then he is himself. &c. Are not these, sufficient testimonies?
What dooe these thynges agaynste the Anabaptistes?
Very much, for thei proue and shew manifestli, that the Anabaptistes be authors of tumulte and sedicion.
What is that?
That is to say, that they against al good ordre, and exemple of the Apostles, dooe make stryfe & contencion in the Churche of Christ, & that only for certayne outwarde trifles.
But they doo teache many thynges of God and of faythe. What outewarde thynges are they, wherfore they do make diuision in the Churche?
If they shoulde preache none other thyng, but of God, of faith, charitie and innocencye of lyfe, it [Page] should be no neede of this seperacion. For these thynges are taught also in our Churches. so that it is no neede at all, that they shoulde preache. But they seperate them selues therefore, because that they teache these thyngꝭ hereafter rehersed, that is to saye: That we haue neede of a new Baptysme, and that a Christen man may not receyue rentes, nor reuenewes: That Christen men are free frome paiyng of tythes: That a christen man may not beare rule or be a maiestrate: That no man is boūde to make a lawful othe, when he is commaunded, by the maiestrates: And also they doo take away richesse from christē men. Are not these, outwarde thynges? And agayne, do they not for suche thynges diuide & [Page] trouble the Churche? Besyde that, they doo bynde their disciples, that they shall not heare the worde of God among them, where Baptysme of chyldren is vsed, rentes and tythes payed, any lawfull othe is made, magistrates be, & richesse ar counted good. Nowe call in remembraunce, the places and testimonyes, that we haue brought and aledged afore, of Christ, & of his Apostles, & ponder well, whether this seperation, is Apostolicall, or sedicious.
It skylleth not that ye cal them sedicious. For that dyd chaunce to Christ, and to his Apostles, to be accused of tumulte & sedicion. But in this thyng, they do prayse God, and geue thankes, that they be counted worthy, to suffer for the name of Iesu, remembring [Page] what Christ sayeth: Blessed are ye when men dooe curse you, and speake all euyll against you, reioice and be glad, for your reward is great in heuen.
Why doest thou leaue that clause which Christ added vnto it, when he was speakyng suche thynges?
What haue I lefte?
Lying (sayth he) for my sake. That we dooe call the Anabaptistes sedicious, it is not doone for Christes sake, but because, that they do diuide Churches beyng well ordered and pacified, for the thinges afore named. The which thyng neuer Christ nor his Apostles dyd. Nor we doo not lye, when we accuse them of tumulte, and sedicion. For the thing is so manifest, that it can not be denyed. But they that imputed suche [Page] thinges to Christ, and to his Apostles dyd lye, and dyd not say trewe, as it appeareth by the xxiii. of Luke, the .xvi. & .xxiiii. of the Actes. There were some which dyd falsely reporte, that they preached agaynst paiyng of Tribute, vnto Ceasar, seducyng the cōmens, and mouyng sedicion, whiche thynges were not true. For neither christ, nor his Apostles dyd it, but rather taught the contrary alwayes. But the Anabaptistes, because, that they repugne against publike magistrates or rulers, and go aboute to abolysshe the ordinance of God, are ryghtfully called tumultuous, rebels and sedicious heretikes.
I woulde gladly (if I myght obteyne that thyng of thee) that thou shuldest leaue, that word, [Page] Heretike: For as often as I heare it, I dooe all quake and tremble in my herte.
When I dooe say heretike, I dooe not vnderstande him, that the rude & vnlerned people doth meane, but him that is aucthor of sectes, and maketh diuision in the Churche, which doth obstinately breake and trouble the vnitie of the Churche, with false and erronious opinion. But I wyll bringe mo places to confirme my conclusion.
I wyll gladly heare them.
In the xx. of the Actes Paul speakyng vnto the ouerseers, beynge assembled togither, at Miletyng, dyd byd them to take heede to them self, & to the whole flocke, ouer the whiche, the holy gost hathe made them ouer seers, to gouerne the Churche of God, [Page] whiche he had purchased with his owne blood. For sayeth he, I do know this well, that greuous wolfes, shall after my departyng, entre in, not sparyng the flocke: euen from you shall ryse men, speakynge peruerse thynges, to drawe after them disciples. Thou seest, my Symon, the nature of heretikes, whiche is, to make diuision in the Churche, to get vnto them disciples, or folowers of their heresye, not to spare the flocke, to sowe discorde, to teache peruerse thynges, to allure men, to reyse or styr vp partes, sectes, & factions, to congregate a particuler Churche.
These argumentes do almost touche the Anabaptistes. For they make diuision in the Churche, and do bring vp and maintayne a singularitie [Page] amonge theim or by themselfes. But hast thou more testimonies or places?
Paule doth warne the Romaines with these wordes, saiyng: I pray you, brethren, that yee looke vpon them, that cause among you dissencion and strife, agaynste the doctrine that yee haue learned, & that ye doo flye from theim. For they that are such, do not serue vnto our lord Iesu Christ, but to their belye, and by blandiloquence, & flatteryng, disceiue the hartes of the simple.
This aucthoritie the Anabaptistes do vse, but agaynst you.
Consyder, my Symon, in your mynde, howe truly thei do bring such thyngꝭ agaynst vs. Where dyd we euer make diuision in the Churche? whiche thynge is familier and [Page] proper vnto them? Where dyd we euer put offēdicles, or stombling blockes, vnto the church? Where as, they haue made an innumerable sorte of mē so perplexed and doubtfull, that they do abhorre from the gospell & do beleue neither vs, nor them. Paule did more lyuely expresse them, that do disceyue & seduce the people with fayre speakyng, seruyng to their belyes, in the iii▪ chapiter to the Philipenses, with these wordes: For many do walke, of whom I haue spoken many tymes, and now doo speake weeping, enemyes of the crosse of Christ, whose ende is perdicion, whose belye is their God, and glorie or reioysyng, in their opprobriousnesse: Which do care for earthly thyngꝭ only. Nowe iudge, my Symon, vnto [Page] whom these thinges may be applied, vnto vs, or vnto the Ana. baptistes. They vociferate and crye alwayes, agaynst Tythes, Tributes, Riches, Othes, Magistrates, propertie of goodes. We do preach Faith, Innocency of lyfe, Charitie, & that men may vse all thinges well, as the gyftes of God. Who boasteth more, or reioyseth in reprochefull thingꝭ, then thei do, that is to say, in their Catabaptisme, or oppinion agaynst Baptisme. in forsakyng of their houshold, & in their slouthfulnes, wherin thei do wander aboute, as ydle vacaboundes. Moreouer, of these thynges, that they do teache, tumultes, sediciōs, warres, robbyng and spoilyng, dyd alwayes ryse. I thynke thou doest vnderstande, whom Paule [Page] dothe call belyes, and enemyes of the crosse of Christ.
If thou hast any more testimonies or places, I pray you, hyde not them from me.
Touchyng the vnitie of the church against the Anabaptistes, ther is a singuler place, in the▪ x. of the Hebrues: Let vs (sayth he) consider, & looke one vpon another, for thys intent, that wee maye prouoke eche other to charitie, & good workes, not sorsakyng the mutuall felowship or congregacion of vs, as some men ar wont to do. And what other thyng do the Anabaptistes, but for the weakenesse, or (as they doo say) for the wyckednesse or vngodlynesse, of some, forsake the Churche▪ and exhorte other to dooe the same.? But let vs come now to the .iiii. conclusion, [Page] which shall shew playnly, that the Anabaptistes are false prophetes, & enemyes of the Crosse of Christ.
Bryng it furthe, that I may heare what it is.
They are false prophetes, whosoeuer they be, that doo affirme, that Christ dyd only abolish & take away, originall syn. They are false Prophetes, that do deny grace, & forgyuenesse of synnes vnto them: which, after that the truthe is once knowen, do fall agayne, into sinne or error. They are false Prophetes, that do attribute, saluaciō, vnto our workes. Syth that the Anabaptistes do teach these articles, thei be not only enemies of the crosse of Christ, but more ouer do denye Christ.
They do no suche thingꝭ,
Though they do not with their mouthe. [Page] denye Christ, yet notwithstandyng, thei do in very dede deny the vertue, and strengthe of Christ, & of his death: as Peter dothe saye .ii. Peter .ii. for swearynge the Lorde, that bought them. Is not all one thyng, if a man should say Christ is not. And there is no suche thynge, wherefore Christ dyd come? Christ dyd come to take away our synnes, whiche thyng if he dyd not, Christ is not Christ. If he be dead onely for them, that were in the old testament, and not for vs, he can not bee our sauiour, and how is he then Christ? If so be that our workes, do saue vs, is he not dead in vayne? Doest thou not see, how the enemyes of the Crosse are knowen?
The .vii. Treatye or Diasogue.
How that Christ dyd not onely suffer, for originall syn.
TAke hede, that thou doest not rashly and without aduisemēt, blame the Anabaptistes. For ther hath ben alwayes some, whiche dyd saye, that Christ hathe suffered onely, for them, that were afore him, that is to saye, for the Fathers, which dyd lyue vnder the olde Testament, & that he hath only pourged in vs, Originall synne, and that we ought to expiate, or to make amendes & satisfaction, with our owne dedes and workes, for the sinnes, that we cōmit, after that we be ones [Page] purified.
If ye haue ben so taught hytherto, and haue beleued so, why was Peter Abelardus counted an heretike, & made to recant againe, by saint Bernarde, in the councell of Sens? He dyd teache very like thynges.
This dothe moue me. but lytell.
In this thinge, are yee blame worthye, that ye Anabaptistes, do know, neither new nor olde histories, & yet ye wyll be teachers. What audacitie is this? But howe [...]ayne your opinion is, and how muche, it doth ene [...]uate and af [...]eablysh, the vertue of the passion of Christ, we wyll shew, by the holy scriptures. Iohn Baptist, shewyng with his fynger, that pure & immaculate lambe Iesu Christ, dyd saye: This is the lambe of God, which taketh [Page] awaye the synne of the worlde. By these & other wordes of the scripture. it is manifestly proued, that Christ is the full satisfaction, for the synnes of all the worlde. Or canst thou say, that the fathers of the old Testamēt are onely the worlde.
No, but he sayeth syn, & not synnes.
Iohn dothe vse this worde synne, as he dothe, this diction world. By the worlde, he vnderstandeth, whatsoeuer is worldly: so by this word sinne, he vnderstandeth, all that can be named synne, the gender beynge here put, for the species. For he sayeth, which taketh away, and not, which hath taken away, or shall take away, that this word Tollit, taketh away, may signifye action or doyng & not tyme. For what synnes soeuer are taken [Page] away, they ar taken away, by the sacrifice of Christ, done in the Crosse.
Thou must bring cleare & more strong testimonies, for these, can easely be confuted.
This aucthoritie is bothe playne & strong inough. Nor it can not be subuerted, by any contradiction. But that thou mayest see, that we ar not without auctorities. Reade the .v. to the Roma. and thou shalt vnderstand, and perceyue, that the vertewe of the death of Christ, is abolyshed by you. And not as bi one mā (saith saynt Paul) which had sinned, death dyd come: so is the gyfte of GOD. For iudgement, dyd come, by one synne to condemnacion, and the gyfte dyd come, to iustify frō many synnes. Do not these woordes, O Symon, [Page] prooue, that Christ with hys death, dyd not clense or pourge onely one synne, but all maner of synnes? But reade all the whole chapiter, and then, thou shalte vnderstande it better.
Paule speaketh of Christ in the ii. chap. to the Collossen. after this maner: And you (sayth he) when yee were dead thoroughe youre synnes or in the prepucie or vncircumcisiō of yourflesh, he hath quykened also with him forgyuyng vnto vs all our synnes. Because that in him dothe inhabite all plenitude or perfection of God head corporally and ye are made perfect in him. Which thyng, truly, coulde not be, if he had not washed vs clene frō all our synnes. But the contrary is euidently knowen, by the .x. chap to the Hebrues. He [Page] (sayth saynt Paule) one oblacion beynge offered for synnes, sitteth euerlastīgly on the right hande of God the Father. For with one oblaciō, he hath made perfecte for euer, them, that are sanctified .i. Ioh. i. The blood of Christ, dothe clense vs, from all our synnes .i. Io. ii. If any man dothe synne, we haue an aduocate, before the father, that righteous Lorde Iesu Christ. And he is the satisfaction for oure synnes, and not onely for oure synnes, but for the synnes of all the worlde. If Christ dyd take away, onely original synne, the testimonye and aucthoritie of Iesu, is voyde. And agayne, if Christ dyed not for vs, but for them only that were after hym: what belongeth vnto vs, the death of Christ. Or why should [Page] we confesse it, if it perteyneth nothyng vnto vs? Doest thou not see yet, who are false Prophetes, enemyes of the crosse of Christ, and subuersers of the Christen fayth?
I doo see it well inough, and I am wel content, touchynge this Artitle. But as for that, that they dooe denye, or wyll not graunt repentaunce, & grace vnto them, that be fallen agayn: thei proue it strongly by the .vi. chap. to the Hebrues, and by the ii. Peter. ii And, verely, as farre, as I can, perceyue, they speake well inough in it. That is to say, that we be no more in the flesh, and that me ought to synne no more after this: which thyng I wold thynke to be good, if we myght [...]olyue. For they do so, v [...]ry stu [...]ously & with great diligen [...].
The .viii. Treatye or Dialogue.
How that a synner may come to grace, as often as he reuen [...]ethe, and that no man is without synne.
O Lorde God, that the simple, do so miserably suffer themselues to be blynded. If Menander & Symō, should come agayne: I thynke they coulde fynde adherentes, and disciples, syth that the secte of Nouatus & of the Catharians, is so regarded & beleued among many.
What do these thingꝭ meane▪
That the seyd heretykes, dyd teache, about .xii. C. ye [...]r [...]s ago, the same thynges, that thou hast nowe brought of the Anababtistes. For thei dyd [Page] deny all grace and forgeuenes, vnto them, that were fallen agayne: Thei dyd arrogate, and take vpon them, purenesse or clenlynesse of lyfe. They dyd congregate & assemble a particuler Churche, auoidyng and shūnyng al cōmunion or felowship of synners. In the meane season, they dyd passe al mortal men, in presumptuo [...]snesse and arrogancy, in enuy, hate [...]e [...] contencion, in couetousnesse, & intemperancy of lyfe. But rede thou Ciprian, vpon the matter, in the .iiii. Epi [...]le to Antonianus. The Anabaptistes if thou lookest better vpon the [...], are in all thinges lyke vnto the Catharians, and doo teache all one thyng with them. S [...]ct [...] them therefore▪ For he, that agreith, with manifest h [...]e [...]s [Page] is lyuyng, condicions, conuersacion & teachyng, can not teche the truthe, nor be a rightful mā. Or howe canst thou alow them whom all godly persones dyd alwayes abhorre?
I care not for the Catharians, nor I know not, what the Cathariās be. That I do, in this thyng, agree with the Anabaptistꝭ, the scriptures compell me to do it, therfore I do not beleue them, but the scriptures.
This is that I haue sayde, and yet do I repete it, that nothing boldeth them so muche in their error as dothe ignoraunce. If they had read, and tasted the olde histories, thei wolde be more modest and sobre, and not so presump [...]ous. Is not this a miserable and perilous thyng, that men beyng so rude and ignoraune in [Page] all thynges, do take vpon them, to be teachers? Wherby, it cometh to passe, that thei corrupt, confound & subuert al thynges, not hauynge the righte vnderstādyng of scriptures. For that which Paule in the▪ vi. chap. to the Hebrues, and Peter in the ii. chap. of his second Epist. doo write, dothe not strengthe nor proue the oppinion of the Anababtistes, but that there is no remission for them, whiche doo swarue frome the faythe, and thorow misbeleue or infidelitie do dispayre of the mercy of god. For they doo synne agaynst the holy gost, whiche syn is not forgyuen here, nor in the worlde to come, as Christe teacheth. Mat. xii. & .i. Iohn .v. But, my Symon, discusse thou and wey, the wordes, of bothe the Apostles, [Page] and consider to what purpose they were spoken. Truly for this purpose, to proue, that it is impossible for hym, that hath beleued ones perfectly, to falle away from his fayth. Peter, with the other disciples, being asked of christ, whether thei woulde, forsake hym also, dyd answere. Lord, to whom should we go? thou hast the wordes of euerlastyng lyfe. And we dooe know and beleue, that thou art the sonne of the lyuyng God. If so be, that any man dothe fall cleane from fayth, he doth shew manifestly, that he had neuer a true fayth. They went from vs (sayth Iohn) but they were not of vs: for if they had ben of vs, truly they shoulde had remayned with vs. He therfore, that swarueth from the knowē faith [Page] hathe no saluacion. But why? For Christ is the onely saluaciō frome whome he doothe falsely swarue, and therfore can fynde no other saluacion. Thou doest vnderstande, I thynke, that the falle, whereof Paull speaketh, is not the fall, that doth chaūce daily, by thinfirmitie & weakenesse of the flesh in them, that are godly, but extreme desperacion thorough misbeleue & infidelitie, wherby a mā swarueth from God. Reade the .vii. &. viii to the Heb. and thou shalte see, that daily remission of synnes, is not denyed vnto them that ar fallen agayne. For he sayeth also, in the .v. cha. that Christ is a bisshoppe, that can haue compassion, of our infirmities, vnto whom we must flye, hauyng lycence & libertie, to do it .x. chap. [Page] to the Hebrues.
In the .xii. chap. Paule teacheth. that Esau coulde fynde no place of repentaunce, thoughe he dyd seke it with teares.
Paule doth not speake in this place, of repentaunce, and forgyuenesse of synnes. but of election, and recouering of his first birth which he had lost ones, thorough glotony, and intemperance, and could neuer recouer it agayne, though he had assaied & proued it, with wepynges and teares. for Iacob had bought the right of the first borne. and had preuented him. Wherfore he speaketh nothyng heare, of the inwarde remission of sinnes. And often tymes, thys woorde penaunce is taken in an other significaciō. But the Cathariās dyd vse the same argumentes, [Page] in so muche, that some weake persons, among them, that wer godly. dyd abhorre, & suspecte the Epistle to the Hebrues, as some do now a dayes the Epi. of saynt Iames. But now I come to the auctoritie of Peter, who speaketh after this maner: It had ben better for them▪ not to haue knowen the waye of righteousnesse, then after that they haue knowen, to tourne from that, that was taught them by the holye precepte. But that chaunceth vnto theim, that is wont to be spoken in a true prouerbe: A dogge goynge to his vomittyng (or to that which he had vomitted) agayne: And a washed sow, beyng retourned to the myre wallowyng or walteryng. If thou considerest well & truly these wordes, thou shalt [Page] fynde that they be spoken of infidelitie, and vnfaythfulnesse. From the which, after that thei wer ones called, through faith, they dyd fall agayn from God, into the fyrst vnfaythfulnesse & infidelitie. We doo set therfore that infidelitie is condempned euery where.
What sayest thou of this, that thei do affirm that we liue no more in the flesh
The flesh dothe stycke vnto vs, to the verye graue. For the flesh doth contrary, the spirite, and agayne, the spirite doth repugne agaynste the flesh, in so moche that we doo that, whiche we woulde not do, the Rom. the vii. It is therfore great boldenesse, to presume & boast of that, whiche the Apostles dyd neuer presume [...] boast of. For Paule did complain of his flesh, which [Page] hath more spirite, & dyd labour more, to tame his flesh, then all the Anababtistes. And yet they dare say, that they be not in the flesh. For this cause peraduenture, because that they be, none other thyng but flesh, that is to say, all carnal, drouned in their sensualitie & affections. Which thyng is manifestly knowen, by their lyfe. But paul did cōclude all thys whole matter, more perfectly, & more briefly also, saiyng: I do, with my mynde, obey and serue vnto the lawe of god, but with my flesh, vnto the law of synne. He doth more, at large expounde these thynges, in the .viii. Rom. and v. Galat. Where he dothe shewe, in fewe wordes▪ that they, which do not feare God, nor rare, for heauenly thynges, but are all earthly, do lyue after the flesh. And that [Page] he walketh in the spirite, or after the spirite, which though he hath, & feeleth in him self, sinne, and weakenesse of the flesh, beyng tickeled with sensualitie, & affections, yet not withstādyng, dothe not geue the bridell, vnto the flesh, ne vnto synne, but resisteth styll, and is alwayes a frayde to fall. And if so be, that he chaunceth to fall, by and by, draweth he backe his foote, and repentyth.
But they saye, that a man may be, without syn
We are without synnes, as dogges be without fleas, in the moneth of August. O abhominacion, that men should thinke or presume suche thingꝭ. I passe ouer here, that by this opinion, they doo blaspheme the veritie, of the gospel, yea, & take vtterly away the grace & mercy of God [Page] For where synne is not, there is no grace, where preuaricacion and transgression is not, there is no Remission amonge them, there is no transgression, ergo, the grace of God, is not a mong them. Is not this, to abolish the grace of God? What shall I saye, but that these mad braynes, do fal into another heresye, that is to saye, in to the heresy, of that blasphemous mā Pelagius, who dyd denye the grace of God, magnifiyng and extollyng the strengthe of man. He was .xi. C. yeares ago.
But they proue thys, with scriptures.
The veritie of the scriptures dothe teache nothing so. Beside that, thou canst bring no exemple, but the exemple of Lucifer, which woulde be lyke vnto God, as they wyll be [Page] without synne, wheras no man can be pure, and without synne, but God onely.
Dothe not Iohn say, that he, whiche is of God, synneth not?
He synneth not to death.
Thou doest so expoūd it, or this is thyne exposicion.
Consider the wordes that go afore, and thou shalte vnderstand, that I saye true.
What synne is that? or is not a man without synne, when he synneth not to death?
Christ saieth vnto the Iues: If ye do not beleue, ye shal dye, in your synnes, Ergo, vnfaythfulnesse is a deadly synne or syn to death. And though a faythful beleuer, is without this syn, that is to say, without infidelitie, yet he is not without vyce or syekenesse, which he must be ware of always, lest he be drouned [Page] in syn. or soiled & defiled wt the abhominable fylthynesse of sinnes: & therfore it followeth in Iohn: We do know, that all that is borne of god, sineth not: but he that is borne of god, doth kepe himself, & theuyll toucheth him not. So therfore the godly sineth not: & though he falleth by frailnes, yet notwithstāding that malicious Satan can not catche him. For the diligent study & labor, that the godly dothe take, in shunnynge & auoidyng synne (that is to say faith) doth that syn is not imputed for syn. It is written in the .viii. Rom. That ther is no condemnacion vnto thē that be in christ, which do not walke after the flesh, but after the spirit. Els saint Iohn doth say in the same self epistle: If we do say, we haue no syn, we deceyue our selfꝭ, & truth is not [Page] in vs. If we do cōfesse our sines god is both faithful & rightwise to forgeue vs our sinnes, and to clense vs from our iniquitie. If we do say, we haue no synne, we make him a lier, & his worde, is not in vs. There be many suche places euery where in the scriptures. Dauid doth crye out: O Lorde, do not enter into iudgement, with thy seruaunt, for in thi sight, no mā shalbe iustified. And agayne, if thou lookest extremely vpon our synnes, o lord who is able to abyde it? In the xliii. of Esa. the lord doth speke thus, by the Prophet, vnto the Iues, which dyd glorify & boast them selues in the rightwysnes of ye law. I am he, I am he (saith y• lord) that taketh away thyne iniquities, for myne owne sake, & wyll not remembre thy sines. [Page] Bring me into remembraunce, let vs be iudged together, telle furth if thou hast any thyng, to iustifie thy selfe. Thy father hath synned fyrst, and thyne interpreters haue gone out of the way. None of the most holy men were euer without sinne, which thyng manifestly appereth, in Adam, Noe, Abraham, Isaac, Iacob, Moyses, Aaron `Dauid Iosias, Ezechias, Peter, Paul, Matew. &c. Therfore Iob speaketh truly. Iob .ix. What am I, that I should answer him, and speake with him, with my wordes, which though I had some rightwysnesse, wyl not answer, but entreate my iudge. If I wyll iustifye my selfe, my mouth shall condemne me: if I say that I am innocent, my mouth shall proue me wicked. &c. Paule in [Page] the .iii. Rom. sayeth, that al men haue sined, & do want the glory of god. In y• .xiii. of Ihon, christ sayeth, he that is washed hath no neade, but to wash his feete: for he is all cleane. If he be all cleane, what neade hathe he, to wash his feete? If he hath neade to wash his feete, how can he be all cleane? Therfore we ar clensed & purified, with the blood of Christ, that was shed vpon the crosse, from the filthines of syn, & be all cleane, But it followeth not by this, that we be no more i the flesh, or that we be no more synners. For the dregges of syn do remayne in our feete, that is to say, in our affections, as long as we liue, & walke in this dust i and foule way, we are soyled & contaminated, with the filthynesse of synne, which we neade, [Page] with perpetuall study and daily care, to washe awaie, and afterwardes, to wype out, these filthinesses, with gret inward grefe repentaunce, and teares, in the vertue of the passion and death of Chryst. Finally christ, in the .xv. of Iohn saieth: I am the trewe vine, and my father is the husbande man. He doeth take awaie euery bough in me that bringeth forth no fruite, & euery bowgh y• bryngeth for the fruite, he doeth purge & make cleane, that he mai bryng forth more fruite. By the which saiynges we maie vnderstande, ye we that are in Christ, thorowe faith, as a bowgh, is in y• vine, & doo bryng forth fruite, liuyng godly, haue neuerthelesse nede to be made cleane, and that, by the spirit, and vertue of Christ. [Page] Now, ye, which is made cleane, must nedes to be vnpure, & vnclene? So we, that ar in Christ alredy ar made clene daily, for we do offend in many thinges, and no man is liuyng, that sinneth not, and that hath no nede of this clensyng. Except the Anababtistes, whiche in their hathe, be made so pure & clene, by their water, wherwith thei do wash their disciples, among whom, water doeth take awaie that, which the blood of Christ doeth not take awaie in them, that are godly.
I do not see yet proued, that he, which falleth againe, after that he hath knowen the truthe, doeth daily fynd grace & pardon.
It is sufficientli proued by y• saiyngs of Iohn, and by the exemple of Dauyd, and of Peter. For if [Page] we be all synners, and yet neuerthelesse doo entre, into the kyngdome of heauen, where no vncleane thing entreth, it foloweth that our synnes are forgyuen vs.
I do not denay, but that we were ones all synners, & that those synnes were ones forgyuen vs, by Chryste. But I will saie this, that after that the synnes, which we committed before, thorow ignorā cye, be ones, thorow the grace of God forgyuen vs, and so bee receaued by the free gyfte and goodnesse of Christ, in to y• numbre of the chyldren of god, that then we be pure holy, and clene, and that we ought to synne no more, and that, if we synne wittyngly, after that we haue ones knowen & receaued the grace, such sinne is not forgiuen.
[Page]But thou mightest, sufficiently vnderstand by the places afore aledged▪ that we be yet sinners styll, after that we haue knowen the truthe, and that those sinnes, which we do daily commit as long, as we ar in Christ [...]e daily forgyuen vnto vs. For Chryste saieth, that his disciples, are all cleane, but neuerthelesse that thei haue neade to washe their fete. And again, the father dooeth make cleane the bowghes, that doo bring forth fruite in Christe. If thei dooe bryng forth fruit, thei do bring forth fruite, in faith, and in the knowen truthe (for without faith, it is impossible, that any man shulde please God, & what so euer is without faith, is sīne and not fruit) If thei be made cleane, thei haue some filthines [Page] in the knowen truthe. Els thei shulde be cleane, and shuld nede no clensynge or purgynge. But sith that thei be made clene, the filthinesses that thei do gather in bringyng forth fruit, ar forgeuen and washed awaie. Neither Pelagius, nor Nouatus, nor none of the Anababtistes, is able to withstand this veritee.
I am not farre frome this opinion, yet notwithstanding, had I leuer to heare plain scriptures, that a man, maie come to grace, as often, as he synneth.
And that can I shew vnto the, besyde, the fore aleged places. The lorde speaketh thus by Ezechiell: When the vngodly shall turne from y• vngodlines, that he hath done, & doeth iudgement & rightwisnesse, he shall get life vnto his [Page] soule. Is the death of ye vngodly, a pleasure vnto me, saieth y• lorde, and not rather, that he turne from his waies and liue? Turne and repent from al your iniquitees, and your iniquitee shall not hurt you. In the .ii. of Ioel. Turne to ye lord your god (saieth he) for he is gentill, and piteful, he is pacient, & of great mercifulnes, & repenteth vpon y• plage, yt he had threatened.
That, whiche thou hast aleged, is to be vnderstanded of the vngodly, & of y• remission of sinnes yt is graunted vnto them, that neuer knew god, & neuer beleued in him.
I wold y• thou shuldest loke better vpon y• wordes of Ezechiell, thou shuldest se, yt he speaketh these woordes to y• children of Israell, whiche were the chosen people of god. [Page] Moreouer considre, with what ende, he dooeth conclude this chapiter. Why shoulde ye dye (saieth he) o ye house of Israel, I wyll not the death of a sinner but y• hereturn & lyue. Or canst thou returne to hym, with whō thou wast neuer before?
No, but I doo come to hym, and do not returne, but with whom I was afore, and from whome I was gone, to hym doo I return againe.
Ergo it foloweth, that they, which are exhorted, by the prophete, to returne to god, were somtymes with god. If thei were sometymes with god: ergo this is not the fyrste sinne, that thei did committe, afore that thei knew the truthe but it was the synne, that thei committed, after that thei knew the truthe and had faith. [Page] We haue proued, I thynke, that the synnes that we cōmit after the knowledge of the truth, are forgeuen, by God. In the .xxiiii. of the Prouerbes, it is written that a rightwyse man falleth vii. tymes in the day, & ryseth a gayne, but that the vngodly do fall, to their vtter dampnacion. Here thou hast a manifest and a playne difference, betwexte the godly & the vngodly, or betwixt the faithfull & infidell. The vngodly, after that he is come, in to the bothomlesse pitte, of vngodlynesse, dothe contempne, & remayneth in synne to the last ende with dispayre. A godlye man, is not he that synneth not, but he, which falling .vii. tymes in the day, doth not continew in synne, but ryseth agayne. With this place, are the Palagians, [Page] Nouatians, and Anababtistes confounded & conuicted. Adde vnto these the .xviii. of Mat. & the .xvii. of Luke, where Christ doth plainly say: If thy brother dothe trespasse agaynst the, rebuke him betwixte the and him alone, if he be sori for his offence or repenteth, forgeue thou him. And if he .vii. tymes in the day dothe offende the, & .vii. tymes in the day cometh to the saiyng: I am sory for myne offēce, thou shalt forgeue him.
But he doth not saye, that he wyll forgeue vs our synnes.
Canst thou pray, or say thy Pater noster?
yeas.
Doest thou not thou pray this: Forgeue vs our trespasses, as wee forgeue them that trespasse against vs? Vnto these woordes dothe the Lord adde, by and by, in the .vi. [Page] chapiter of Mathew. If ye doo forgeue vnto men their fautes, your father, that is in heauen, shall forgeue you also. Seyng therfore, that wee doo forgeue, vnto oure brethren daily, it foloweth, that the father of heauē forgeueth vs also daily. Do not the saintes or holy men pray so, and that euery day? Nowe, I aske the, whether they do lye before God: praiyng thus or not?
They do not lye.
If they do not lye, it foloweth, that thei haue in them selfe trespasse and synnes. If so be, that synne, as thou thynkest, is not forgeuen, whye dyd Christe teache vs to prai so? forgeue vs our trespas. Is not this an abhominable thyng, that any man, whiche knoweth not, what he dooeth praye, shoulde take vpon hym, [Page] not only to be a teacher, but also to teache that whiche repugueth against ye manifest truth and prayers of the Sayntes? But what thynkest thou of Peter, was he, a faithfull Christē man, & elected of God, or not?
He was not a faithful Christen man, afore his falle, els he wolde not haue denyed Christ.
If he had ben an infidel, to what intent were these wordes spokē. mat. xvi. Thou artchrist the son of the lyuyng god? Are these the wordes of an infidell. And agayne, if Peter had ben, an infidell or hipocrite, when he dyd make suche a godly confession, Christ would not haue sayde: Thou art blessed Symō: Flesh and blood hath not reuelated this thynge, vnto the, but my father, which is in heauen. [Page] The LORDE prayseth not, hipocrites and infidels, but abhorreth & hateth them, Mat. vi and .xxiii. He would not, haue said vnto him: he that is washed, hath no neale, but to washe his feete. And agayne, Peter, I haue prayed for thee, that thy faith do not faile or slake. Rede besyde that, the .xvii. of Iohan. Now I aske the again, whether Peter was a faythful Christen mam, or not?
The scripture doth compel me to confesse, that he was a faithfull christē man.
Now I aske agayn, whether his fall, was a synne or not?
Agayne, the scripture cōpelleth me, to confesse that it was a synne, for he dyd wepe bitterly And agayn, if to deny christ, is no synne, what shalbe a syn thā?
Ergo, it followeth, by all [Page] these argumentes, that Peter dyd synne, after the knowledge of the truthe, and receiuyng of the fayth. Therfore, a faythfull man is not all without synne. And here Peter dyd commytte not a small, but a very greuous synne, denyeng thus, the Sauior of the worlde. Now I aske whether his synne was forgeuē him or not?
yeas truly: for Christ sayeth: Whan thou arte turned agayne, conforte or confirme thy brethren.
So shoulde the Anababtistes dooe, if they were sent by God. But seeyng that presumptuousnesse & partinacie hath sente them, and do so bytterly, & with suche stubburnesse, speake agaynst the gospell, teachyng for conforte, desperacion: they ar such Prophetes, as the Lorde doth complayne [Page] vpon, in Ezechiel, which regarde nor care nothynge for the diseased & wounded sheepe, (which thing neuerthelesse, thei had learned of the Lord, which is deseruingly called the good & true shephearde. Luc. xxv. or of Paule. ii. Corin. ii.) but dissipate & scatter the Lordꝭ flocke. For what maketh them, besyde a singularitie, or singuler loue of them selfes, to separate them selfes, from our church, but that (as they do say) we be synners, that is to say, vsurers, publicās & dronkardes? I can not, but that I must cōfesse, that ther be many enorme sines vsed amōge vs (which is the more pitie) yet we ought not to dispayre of many, but that thei mai be brought to repentaunce. And truly, as for our elues, we are not very [Page] negligent or slouthfull in rebukynge synnes, criynge out styll bitterly against them, that commyt suche thynges. And yet agaynst the precepte of GOD, Math. xiii. and exemple of the Apostles, which dyd condemne no man rashly, they do separate them selues from vs. But this is the nature of Phariseis.
As touchyng this article, I am sufficiently taught, & I thanke God of it,
Iohn, without exception, doth say: Chyldren, I haue written this vnto you, that ye shulde not synne, but if any man dothe synne, we haue our aduocate, before the father, that rightwise LORDE Iesu Christ. &c. Here no man can bryng any cauillacion. Christ is here named and appoynted to be Aduocate or mediator for [Page] all synners, and that, at all tymes, as he offereth him selfe. ri. Mathew, saiyng: Come vnto me all ye that labor and are loadyd, and I wyll refresh you. That same thyng doeth Paule teache, concernynge the onely Sauior Iesu Christ .i. Tim. i. It is a faythfull saiyng, and worthi to be receiued of al men, that Christ dyd come, into this worlde to saue synners. If the Anababtistes therefore, dooe teache the contrarye, they are the open enemyes of the Crosse of Christ: in the which opinion, if they doo abyde, or persist obstinately, they are manifest heretikes, whome all godly persones ought to flye and abhorre.
The .ix. treatie or dialoge.
How that our saluacion and rightwisnesse, is not to be described to our workes but to faith.
IF the Anababtistes doo teache, that our saluacion, & rightwisnes, ought to be ascribed to our workes (whiche is the .iii. parte of this article) thou wilt not saie (I thynke) that thei doo erre in it.
There is nothyng that I will graunt them, lesse. For this thynge beynge ones graunted, al ye epistles of Paul ar condemned, as false, & whiche dyd seduce the people. For this is the thyng onely, wherfore Paule, with suche a zeale did repugn & resist against false prophetes, whiche did teache, [Page] that rightwisnesse dyd come of workes: where as sainte Paul did attribute our rightwisnes to faithe. That maie easily bee sene by ye epi. to the Ro. and to the Gala. But I wil bring out of them, certaine places, which can not be confuted. In the .iii. cha. to the Romains, Paul saieth thus: All haue synned and ar destitute of the glory of god, but are iustified freely by his grace, thorowgh the redemcion that is in Christ Iesu. And in the .iiii. Ro. If Abraham were iustified by workes, thē hath he wherin to reioice, but not with god, for what saieth ye scripture Abrahā beleued god, & it was counted vnto him, for rightwisnes. To him yt worketh is ye rewarde not reckened of fauoure but of dutye. To him y• worketh [Page] not, but beleueth in hym, that iustifieth, the vngodly, is his faith counted for rightwisnes. Euen as Dauid describeth the blessedfulnes of that man, vnto whom god imputeth righwisnesse without dedes. Blessed ar thei (saieth he) whose iniquities are forgiuen, & whose sinnes are couered. &c. And in the xi. to the. Ro. There is a remenaunt left accordyng to the election of grace, if it be of grace then it is not now, of workes. For thā grace is no more grace But if it be of workes, then is it no more grace. For then wer deseruyng, no more deseruyng. In the seconde to the Galathians: The lyfe, whiche I nowe lyue in the fleshe, I lyue by the faith, of the sonne of God, whiche loued me, and gaue hym [Page] selfe for me, I despise not the grace of God. For if rightwisenesse cometh of the lawe, then Chryste, is dead in vaine. In the thyrde chapiter, he doeth argumente and reasone after this maner: That no man is iustified in the sight of God, by the lawe, it is euydent. For the iuste shall lyue by faythe. The lawe is not of faythe, but the man, that fulfylleth the thynges, conteyned in the law, shall lyue in them. Chryst hath delyuered vs from the curse of the lawe, in as muche, as he was made accursed for vs, that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentilles thorough Thesu Chryste, and that we myght receaue the promise of y• spirit, thorow faith. Brethern, I speake after y• maner of men. [Page] Though it be, but a mans testament, yet if it be alowed, no man despiseth it, or addeth any thyng ther vnto. To Abraham, and his sede, was the promise made. He saieth not, in thy sedes, as in many, but in thy sede as of one, which is Christ, this I saie, that the lawe, which beganne. CCCC and .xxx. yeres after, doeth not disanulle the testament, which was confirmed afore of God, vnto Christ warde, to make ye promise of no effecte. For if the inheritaunce cometh of ye law, then it cometh not of ye promise. But god gaue it, vnto Abraham by promise. For if ther had ben a law geuē, which could had geuen life, thē no doubt rightwisnesse, shoulde haue comed by ye lawe. But the scripture, concluded al thinges [Page] vnder sinne, yt the promise, by y• faith of Iesu Christ, might bee geuen vnto them yt beleue. In ye ii. cha. to the Ephe. ye ar saued thorow faith, & not of our owne selues. It is the gift of god, and cometh not of our dedes or workes. For we ar his owne workmāshyp, created in Iesu Christ to do good dedes, which he hath prepared for vs to walke in, & in the .iii. to Ti, we wer also folyshe, disobediente, deceaued, seruyng to lustes and voluptuousnes, liuyng in malice, and enuye, hatefull or odiouse and hatyng eche other. But after yt the goodnes and loue of our sauiour God, not accordynge to the dedes of rightwisnes, whiche we haue done, but accordyng to his mercye, had made vs safe, by the fountayne of [Page] regeneracion, and renuynge of the holy ghost, whiche he hath poured vpon vs abundantely, thorow our sauiour Iesu christ that we beyng iustified by his grace, shulde be made heyres of euerlastyng lyfe, accordyng to our hope. These places are plaine, and can not be auoided. For thei, that speake againste them, are no christen men, but felowes of the false Apostles, against whome Paule writeth, callyng them euyll workemen, and subuersours of the gospell of Christ. And by these wordes, not onely the Anababtistes, but also, all popishe doctours, are noted, and whosoeuer besyde, doo attribute our rightwisnes and saluacion to our dedes & workes.
I can saie nothing against the manifest veritee. [Page] But I wold faine know of the, in what reputacion thou haste the epistle of Iames, and how muche thou doest esteme it.
And I aske the first, what thou thinkest, or what oppinion and iudgement thou haste, of the afore aledged places, and howe strong thou coūtest them to be.
Thei are manifest, and true and also strong enoughe, and dooe attribute saluacion, and iustifiyng: to faith, but Iamis doeth adscribe saluacion to our woorkes and dedes.
What semeth vnto the then? is it right, yt many places, shulde geue the ouer hande to one, or one place to many.
The interpretaciō of one place, must bee taken out of many. But what dooeth this to the epistle of Iames?
Had the [Page] apostles all one learnynge and spirite?
All one. But I asked the, touchynge the wordes of Iames.
I haue had alwaies in singulare reputacion, the epistle of Iames, and haue alwaies geuen great credit & a faith vnto it, though it hath ben suspected by Eusebius, and other besyde, & counted lesse apostolicall. But if it be Apostolical, it foloweth, that it hath the same meanyng and spirit, that the epistles of Paul haue. For this thou hast graū ted before, that thei had al one learnyng and spirit, moreouer that the places, whiche I haue aledged out of Paule, and doo adscribe saluacion to faythe, and not to woorkes, are bothe true and stronge. Now it foloweth necessarily that it is not [Page] the meanynge of Iames, that woorkes shoulde iustifye and saue, and that therefore this darke place and saiyng of Iames ought to be expounded, by many plaine and manifeste testymonyes of Paule.
What is that?
That is to saie, that Iames dooeth not goe about, to proue, that workes iustifie, and that fayth iustifieth not, but that faithe without workes, is no faithe, but an oppiniō and credulitie, or light beleue, which faith can not saue. And y• it is sufficient to saluacion to trust & leyne vpon this vaine oppinion. It is manifest therfore, y• Iames doeth not take here faith, for that true and liuely faithe (whiche faith is a gyft of God, and renuyng of the mynde, and lyfe) [Page]but for a false oppinion, which foolyshe men do call faith, with the whyche faythe, the diuell beleueth, all quakyng and trē blyng, but by it, he is made neuer the better, nor saued. Besyde that, he vnderstandeth not humaine or bare workes without faithe, but faithe workyng effectually thorough charitee and loue. Ponder the wordes of saynt Iames, and thou shalt perceiue, that he proueth there, partly, that faithe can not bee without workes, partly that faith workyng thorough charitee, doeth bothe iustifie and saue. Therefore Iames dooeth not disagree from Paule, but meaneth al one thing with him agreyng, both in one spirit and learnyng.
Yet it semeth vnto me, that our saluacion is adsribed [Page] to workes, when it is attributed to faythe. For if faith can not be without workes, nor workes without faith, thei must be all one thyng, and that, which is attributed to one is attributed to the other.
Faith and woorkes are almost so one thynge, as the godhed, and manhead, are one persone in Christe. And yet it folowed not that the godhed is mortal, because that Christ dyed in very dede vpon the crosse. Yet notwithstandyng, it is all one persone. whyche can not be diuided. So we maie speake in this busynesse. Faith iustifieth. Here faith is taken, for the election, and grace of God, and also for the redempcion, whiche is not adscribed to our owne workes, though thei can not be separated [Page] from faith, and which folowyng most certainly of faithe, are very sure & vndoubted signes & tokens of faith and election of god. For so Paul doeth speake: Whom he hath predestinated, them dydde he chose, whom he hath chosen, them did he call, whome he hath called, them dyd he iustify. And Iohn also: We knowe, that when he shall appere, we shall bee lyke vnto hym, and euery man that hath this hope, doth make him selfe cleane, as he is pure .i. Io. iii. In one sonne, there is bothe lyght and heate, and the one is not from the other. Yet notwithstandyng the lightyng or illuminacion, is attributed to the lyght, and not to the heate, and the heatyng or warmenesse, is adscribed to the heate, and not [Page] to the lyght.
But the scriptures dooe often and in many places, adscribe saluacion, to oure woorkes and merites.
That is done, not because that the worke, shoulde bee barely taken by it selfe, but as a woorke or dede, comyng of faithe, wherby that, whiche is farthest, and chyefest (that is to saie faythe) maie be manifested, and shewed. I aske the, can a man, dooe any good thynge of hym selfe.
No. For no man, is good, but god onely.
And Christ saieth in the .xv. of Iohn. As boughes can not brynge forthe fruite, excepte, they remayne stylle, in the vine. So ye can bryng forthe no fruite excepte ye remayne in me. For without me ye can dooe nothynge. [Page] Now I aske againe, who bringeth forth the grapes and the wyne?
The vine.
If god, shoulde take awaie his strengthe frome the vyne, and shoulde not worke in it, that, which we dooe see, coulde that vine brynge for the wyne?
No.
The chyefe thyng therefore that geueth wyne, is not the vyne, but God, and yet notwithstandyng, we dooe adscribe the wyne to the vyne, whereas it dooeth onely come of God.
I can saye nothynge agaynste the truthe.
It is all one reason, when the saluacion and euerlastynge lyfe, is attributed to oure owne workes, where as it cometh of God onely, and of gratuitee and free election. For GOD worketh [...]s, [Page] bothe to be willyng, and to doo or performe the thyng, that he hathe moued vs, to be willyng to do, accordyng to his bountuous wyll. He, I say, worketh in vs good workes, as in his electes, notwithstanding the workes ar attributed vnto vs, and are called ours, whiche neuerthelesse are Gods, that glory & honor may be geuē to god only. Doest thou vnderstande what I say?
I doo vnderstand it very well.
Dothe it satisfie thee?
ye as truly, Now do I perceiue, that the lernyng of the Anababtistes, cometh of ygnoraunce and boldnesse, and that it is very pernicious and hurtfull, whiche is gaye in the syght of the simple, but in dede is an error, & malicious rudenesse [...]ut I desyre to knowe, [Page] what thou wylte saye of the .v. conclusiō: For they be fully persuaded, that soules are a slepe.
The .x. treatie or dialoge.
How that the Soules after that thei be departed from the body do not slepe, but lyue in christ.
BVt, with this opinion, they do abolish the gospel, which teacheth of the resurrection of Christ: as saynt Paule, in the fyrst chap. to the Romayns, doth say: Besyde that, they doo denye, the last Article of oure fayth, that is to saye: The lyfe euerlastyng, after this lyfe. Is not this therfore a pernitious Doctrine, that repugneth agaynst so manifest veritie, and sure beleue?
Thou doest not vnderstande the Anabaptistes, [Page] For they doo neyther denye the Gospell, nor the Resurrection of Christ. They saye that the Soules, after the deathe of the bodye, (if they dooe departe in fayth) do slepe in the bosome of Abraham, tyl the day of iudgement, & that then, they do entre into euerlasting life. And proue their saiynges by the gospell, & by Paule. Luc. xvi. i. Thess. iiii. I wyl not haue you to be ignoraunt touchyng them, that are a slepe. &c. In the Olde Testament, it is written of the Fathers, that thei fal a slepe, with their Fathers. And also, it is sayde of Stephen, that he dyd slepe in the Lord. And that thei at lengthe, shall receyue euerlastyng lyfe, they do proue it by Paule .ii. Timoth. iiii. I haue sayeth he, fought a good fyght. [Page] Now is there layde vp for me, a croune of rightwysnesse, which the Lorde, who is a rightfull iudge. shall geue or render vnto me, vpon that day, not onely to me, but also to al them that loue his comynge. There is suche a thyng. Phil. iii. & i. Iohn. iii. Or what neade is it, of that last iudgement, if by & by, after his death, euery man receyueth his owne dome: these do seme vnto me strong. Nowe wyll I fayne he are what thou canst saye agaynst it.
I saye the same thyng that I sayde before. If our soules dooe sleepe, after the death of the bodye, the soule of Christ sleepeth also, and the resurrection is disanulled. For Christ dyd proue that ther was an euerlasting lyfe by his rising agayne, which can not be euerlastyng, [Page] if the soule slepeth, and begynneth then to lyue, when iudgement dothe come. Wherfore the sleepe of the Anababtistes, dothe euacuate and disanull, the gospell and resurrection. As for the bosome of Abraham, I aske the whether it be, a slepyng place & dormitori, or a receptacle, and place to receyue the lyuyng?
A place whervnto, the soules of ye faithfull Christen men, ar gathered together, tyll the day of iudgement.
Where is that place, aboue, or benethe?
It is vncerteyne to me, God doth know. Nor it is not lawfull for vs, to enquyre
So ye do defend al vncertayne thynges, that ye do teache. And ye that do speake & babble muche of the bosome of Abraham, and do not know yet [...]
[Page] That comyng of Christ shall be in the last day of all.
What and I vnderstande that, of the comyng of Christ, at the ende of euery mans lyfe?
So thou doest say: but it must be proued by the holy scriptures.
These ar not my wordes, but the wordes of him, that speaketh there, of his owne death. For he vseth this word, to go, for to dye. (so that to go, and to dye, is all one thyng, with him) And agayne, this worde, to come, wherfore the Anababtistes doo stryue, is not taken, for his last comyng, but for the resurrectiō of christ: and ye helpe and ayde, that he sheweth vpon the faythfull christen men being in extreme nede. For he came agayne, after that he was rysen from death, & dyd declare, that he had opened the [Page] kingdom of god: that we might be sure, that as he dyd entre in to heauen him selfe, so we shuld come in or entre in also. But he is entered, in to immortal lyfe, & not in to slepe, in to the kyngdome of God, and not in to the bosome of Abraham, and that by & by after his death. Therfore we shall also, incontinent after our death, entre in to euerlastyng lyfe, and into the kingdome of God. For he taketh vs away, when he calleth vs from death to lyfe. Iohn. v. For it is added by maner of exposicion: That where I am, ther ye may be also. Therfore are we taken in soule, from death to euerlastyng lyfe, & in body, to iudgement. Or tell me, dyd Christ with his death, reserate & open heauen, whiche was locked vp [Page] afore or not?
I do graunt that he did opē it.
But what neadeth this reseration or openyng, if the soules doo not entre in to lyfe? Where as notwithstādyng Paul doeth say: I coueit to be dissolued, & deliuered from this body, & to be wt christ. beleuyng that after this death, he should be with Christ. Peter moreouer doeth saye, that for this cause, the gospel was preached vnto the dead, that they shuld be iudged in the flesh, but lyue, after, or in ye spirit, do not these manifest places teache & proue, that the soules doo lyue, with God? For he sayeth that y• gospell was preached vnto the dead: What is els the gospel, to be preached, but redemption & lyfe to be preached. And what were they that were dead, but [Page] they, which after that thei were departed, were gathered in the bosome of Abraham?
But howe was the gospell preached vnto them?
The vertue of the passion of Christ, and the fruit of his death, which were profitable vnto them.
How?
Because that they being deliuered, thorough the death of Christ, ar receiued, as touching their soules, into euerlastyng lyfe. In the last day, they shall ryse bodily, and as all other, shall be iudged, in the vniuersall iudgement. In the meane season their soules do liue with God. Is it proued sufficiently that the soules that wer in the bosome of Abraham are delyuered, & brought in to heauen?
I dooe not saye agaynst it.
And thou shalt fynde none [Page] other thing in the word of god▪ It followeth therfore, that th [...] Bosome of Abraham is no dormitory, or slepyng place, but an euerlastyng lyfe: Which thyng we may proue by the .xvi. of Lu▪ For ther it is written, that Lazarus is in ioy and solace, whe [...] as the rycheman is punyshed in hell. If so be that the soule (as ye doo say) shulde slepe, she coulde haue no ioye, excepte i [...] were by dreames: if she reioyseth or haue ioy, it is impossible that she shoulde slepe. Likewis [...] it is manifest li knowen & shewed in the .viii. of Mathew, that many shall come, & sytte in the kyngdome of God, with Abraham, Isaak, and Iacob. That in the meane season, I shoulde sai nothing, that slepe is clean [...] contrarye to the nature of the [Page] soule, which is in Greke called [...]ntesecheia, or Endesechia, that is to sai [...] perpetuall and vnrequietable [...]otion or workyng.
These [...]hinges are more manifest, and more strong, then I thought.
It is the poynte of an vnwise man to say, I thought not, and hauyng hearde, but one [...]arte, to geue sentence. The A [...]ababtistes do aduaunce, and [...]et forth gaily, and paintyngly their argumentes, but they are weake and nothyng strong.
I woulde fayne know, in what significaciō, the scripture vseth this worde to slepe, which is so often tymes founde, in euery place of the Bible.
Among the auncient fathers, this worde, to slepe, was to dye naturally, or after the commen course of nature. And because [Page] of the resurrectiō, it was saied, that thei which dyd dye, sleape. For as a man geueth hym selfe to sleape, doubting nothing, but that he shall wake agayne from his sleape: so the body sleapeth that is to say dyeth, & doeth ly [...] in the graue, beyng kepte there [...]yl the day of the general resurrection. So the Fathers dy [...] sleape: so Stephen, & all othe [...] godly persons. Seyng therfor [...] that to sleape, is to dye, and th [...] soules can not dye, it foloweth that they canne not sleape. Fo [...] Stephen dyd saye: Lorde, receiue thou my spirite, which thyng: when he had saied, & ha [...] cōmitted or cōmended his soul to the heauenly father, his bod [...] sleapynge, dyd dye. In thy thyng, they are deceyued, tha [...] they do attribute vnto the sou [...] [Page] that which belongeth to the body only. But in the meane seasō it is attributed to the whole mā because of the vnitie of the body and of the soule, beyng knytted in one persone. Which example was brought afore, of Christ, in whom the body died only, & not his godhead, nor his soule. Lykewyse a man slepeth, but with his bodye, & not with his soule. The Anababtistes doo not, nor wyl not vnderstand this figure Sin [...]cdoch [...], nor the other figures, & tropes. Which thyng causeth them to erre in many thynges. But ignorauncye maketh them the bolder, to teache, what so euer they do dreame or conceyue in their sleape.
Yet it is euident that Paul saith, that a cotoune of rightwisnes shalbe rē dered [Page] vnto him at lengthe, when th [...] Lorde cometh. And also that which is written in Iohn, an [...] in the Epistle to the Philipen [...] is sure and strongly grounded▪
This ought to be obserue [...] Symon, that the daye of th [...] Lorde in scriptures, is not alwayes to bee taken for the las [...] day, but somtyme, for the truth and lyght: as in the gospell o [...] Iohn, otherwhyles for the vi [...] sitacion of the Lorde: as ofte [...] tymes, in the Prophetes, and . [...] Cor. iii. sometyme for the end [...] & death of euery man: as Ioh [...] vi. I wyll resussitate or rays [...] him agayne, to euerlastyng life in the last daye, that is to saye [...] when he dyeth. For when an [...] man dyeth, that day is last vnt [...] hym. After thys maner, dy [...] Paule call, the last daye, in th [...] [Page] Epistle to Timothe. For he had spoken before of his death, saiyng: I am ready to be offered: affirming, that he had ben faith full and loyall, in his course, & therfore, he dyd not doubte, but that the rightwise iudge, shulde render vnto him, the coroune of rightwysnesse, which, as he leaueth no vnrightwysnesse vnpunyshed, so alwayes rewardeth them that lobor faithfully. And this place doeth rather for vs, then for the Anababtistes, seing that Paule dothe hope, that the coroune of rightwysnesse, duyd vnto the rightwyse, shalbe renderyd vnto him, at the tyme of his death. Ergo, he beleueth not, that the soules do slepe, but that they do lyue euerlastingly. That, which thou aledgest out of Iohn and Paule to the Philipenses, [Page] are spoken, of the last iudgement, but they proue not that the soules are a sleape. For that, whiche they doo speake of saluation there, dooe perteyne more to the resurrection of the body. For these are the wordes of Paule: He shall transforme (that is to say Christ) our vyle body, that he may make it conforme and lyke, to his glorious body. What meane these thingꝭ elles, but that our bodyes haue full hope of resurrection. or risyng agayn? As Iob dyd speke Iob .ix.
If the soules dooe receyue by and by, their iudgement as sone, as they be departed, what neadeth that vniuersall iudgement?
It perteyneth to the whole man, whiche shall be repayred or made new agane, with the body, that [Page] shall ryse, & with the soule. Of the which thyng, it is written, Chess .iiii. & Mat. xxiiii. & .xxv. Doest thou yet desyre any thīg?
I had leauer heare foundations and groundes oute of the scriptures.
I haue brought verye many alreadye, what dooest thou aske more?
Thou hast other helpes yet, the which I pray the, to bryng forth.
Seynge that thou arte desyrous of the truthe, I wyll hyde nothyng frome the. This Doctrine and Opinion, of the Sleape of the Soules, dooeth not ouelye repugne agaynst the Scriptures & fayth, dooeth not onely disanulle the Gospell and Resurrection of Christ, but is also agaynst all cōmune sense & reasone, a rude and vnclearkelye ignoraunce, [Page] but go to, let vs expounde these thyngꝭ: I aske thee, if the soule be a body, or a spirite?
It is not a bodye, nor any grosse substaunce, but a syngle and pure spirite.
Can then a spirite be subiect to bodily infirmities, as to be an hongered, to be weryed, to dye. &c.
No, for these perteyne to the bodye onely. A spirite, is immortall, incorruptible, euerlasting or perpetuall.
Thou sayest very well, therfore marke thyne argumēt thus: Sith the soule is a spirit, & not a bodye, it can not be subiecte to bodily passions or infirmities, but is exempte frome them: slepe doth chaunce to the body, thorough werinesse. Ergo the soule can not slepe: for the soule cannot be weary. Or canst thou brynge any other thynge [Page] concernyng slepe?
No, for all operacions and senses dooe ceasse and rest, and excepte the body shulde brethe, folkes wold thynke that it were dead.
Now, if our soules should slepe, it shoulde folow, that after this lyfe, we doo feele neither good, nor euyll, which dothe directly pugne agaynste the Gospell. Moreouer, we wyl proue by the nature of the slepe, that the soules can not slepe, but the bodye only. For now I aske the, when doeth the soule slepe, after that she is departed frome the body, or when she is yet ioyned to the body?
At bothe tymes.
Neither of them can be trew: and I do meruail that so grosse an answere dyd come from the. For seyng that the Soule, can muche lesse slepe, when she hath [Page] put awaye the burdeyn of th [...] body, then when she beareth about yet, the burdeyn of the body, & doeth not sleape, when sh [...] is yet in the bodye, it followet [...] that she sleapeth muche lesse, when she is deliuered from th [...] bodye And that she doeth not slepe beyng in the body, it maye be knowen by thys, that in the tyme of wakyng, the body doth alwayes, without rest & quyet, worke, which actions do come from the soule. Ergo, it is manifest, that whiles that the body waketh, the soule sleapeth not. And agayn, when the body hath geuē it self to rest & to slepe, the soule worketh with a perpetual motion or mouyng, & doeth neuer rest or ceasse, either she bretheth, or doeth some thynge alwayes, withe the vertue of remembraunce [Page] & vnderstādyng, or with the other excellent vertues & powers. All mans lyfe is eyther wakynge, or rest: in none of them bothe, doeth the soulesleape. Ergo the soule doeth not sleape at all. Therfore slepe, longeth only to the body, & not to the soule. For when the soule begīneth ones to haue life it is a perpetual Entesechia, comeyng frō the euerlasting & eternall fontayne of goodnesse, the which perpetuall Entesechiia, that is to say, vnrequietable, & perpetuall action and mouyng in the soule, if any man denayeth, by that same reason he must denay the soule
These thyngꝭ are somewhat darke vnto me.
Therefore, I wyll declare them, by an exāple: Fyer is a very pure & actuall thyng, [Page] whiche after that it begynneth ones, can neuer ceasse from his operacion and workyng, tyll it be quenched: and that is, when it hathe nothyng, whervpon, it maye shew, and exercise his operacion. If thou denyest the operacion & working of the fier, thou hast denyed the fyer. The nature of the soule is very like, which after, that she is poured in to the body, by god, is a liuely and working spirite, and can neuer ceasse nor be at rest. Wylt thou haue no fyer, take awaye the operacion. If thou denyest the Soule, attribute vnto her, slepe. For to say, that the soule is a slepe, and to saye, that the soule is not, is all one thyng.
If the soule slepeth, she dooeth rest, if she dooeth rest, she worketh not, if she doeth not worke, [Page] she is not. For to worke, and to be in the soule, is all one thing, [...]yth that she is a perpetual motion, & workyng. But the soule is, therfore shee sleapeth not. Dooest thou vnderstande this thyng?
Very well.
Therfore did I say, that the A [...]ababtistes knowe not, the nature of the soule.
Thou shuldest peraduenture haue persuaded somewhat, to Timens, and Phedrus, Platos disciples, I had leauer heare Scriptures.
The Saduces, dyd teache that ther was no Resurrection, and by this, dyd denye the immortalitie, and perpetual workyng of the soule, yea, and also Angels, and all maner of Spirites. Act. xiii. The Lorde dyd stop their mouthes, with these reasons. Ye erre (sayth he) not [Page] knowing the scriptures, nor the vertue of God. God, after the death of the Fathers, calleth hym selfe, the God of Abrahā, Isaac and Iacob, which is not the God, of the dead. but of the lyuyng, and that therfore, Abraham, and the other Fathers were a lyue, and not dead. Thei were dead in body, a gret whyle afore, and buryed: Therfore Christ speaketh here, of the lyfe of the soule. Ergo, the soule beyng separated from the body, is in her owne kynde, worketh lyuely, and slepeth not. This syllogysme and argument, doo I put to all the Anababtistes, to answer to, that they may cleare them selfe frome the heresye of the Saduces. For thei are lyke vnto the Saduces and Manicheans. What shoulde I say of [Page] the wordes of Christ, whiche hangyng vpon the Crosse, doeth comforte, the thiefe with these wordes, saiyng: To daye thou shalte be with me in Paradise.
Paradise, and the Bosome of Abraham, are all one thyng, to the Anababtistes, where thei say, that the soules doo sleape.
Thei do affirme this with out scriptures, and with an hereticall spirite. Christ sayeth: To day, thou shalte be with me in Paradise. Ponder euerye worde. If Paradice, is a sleapyng place, Christ sleapeth in it also. For he sayeth: To daye thou shalte be. Moreouer, the thiefe prayeth Christ, to remember him, when he shoulde come in to hys kyngdome. If the kyngdome of God, is a Dormitorie or Sleapyng place: what [Page] doo the scriptures speake, of the Resurrection, and Ascendyng of Christ in to heauen? Ye ate obstacle asses, O Anababtistes, whiche dare make mention of suche sleapyng, agaynst so manifest places of the scriptures. What shall thei say, to the wordes of Christ. Iohn. v.? He that heareth my word, and beleueth in him, that hath sent me, shall not come in to iudgement, but is passed frome deathe to lyfe. Whiche woordes are so cleare, that no mā can denay them, but heretikes. Let the .xi. of Iohn. and the .xv. of the first Epistle to the Corinthians. Item the .ii. Cor .ii. be reade, and it shal euidently he knowen, that the sleape of the Anababtistes, is a blasphemy agaynst the Gospell and Resurrection of Christ.
If the matter be better looked vpon: the Anababtistes can not cleare them selues, from the crime of ouer boldnesse & ignorancye: but they haue not pondered all these thingꝭ so exactly
Why dooe they presume to teach then, & take vpō thē that, which passeth their strengthe? And agayne, when they be conuicted, wyll not geue the vpper hande to the truthe? But because they wyll be sene stedfast, they be founde, in all thynges, frowarde, and obstacle. To say briefly: They doo all thynges, with contention, arrogancye, and ignoraunce.
I woulde had questioned with the, touchyng the .vi. Conclusion, but that I must go to myne Iune: Tomorow, if thou canst haue leasyr, I wyll be here betymes [Page] in the morning, and reason farther with the.
I am well pleased, for I wyll go, to myne Inne also: be thou to morow, in better readinesse.
God be with the.
Fare well.
SOLIDEO HONOR ET GLORIA▪