If the Prophecies of the Holy Bible be true (as they be most true) then must the Religion of the Protestants needes be false.

THat some doe still continue to plead for their vnholy father of Rome, & do their best endevours to vnderprop & vphold the ruines of his decaying Babylon, ought not to seeme strange to any Chri­stian man, who hath but a competent knowledge of things spiritual. For while there is a church militant, there shal also be a Church malignant, laboring to op­presse and keepe downe the other; and so long as Antichrist standeth, he shall haue his admirers, yea and Apoc. 13. 15. adorers too, of the image of the beast. And toward the end of the world it is fore­tolde, that there shall be swarmes of Cap. 9. 3. locusts, who in likelyhood wil not so ill love the bottomles pit, from which they do ascend, but that their purpose wil be to returne thither againe, & drawe with them such store of company, as they may bee able to worke vpon. Neither may it seeme wonderfull, that among the devo­ted servants of the Pope, some of our nation being [...]ed over the seas, should play their parts and prizes, since it is their open pro­fession to stand on his side, and fight vnder his banner: And something they must returne for their hungrie pensions & nee­dy mainetenaunce which they receive from his Holinesse and the King Catholike; besides the containing of their favourites heere in their former courses, by refreshing their wittes with no­velties; and the solacing of their owne discontentments, vvhich doe the lesse gaule and gripe their vnquie [...] hartes, while their heades are busied with inventing, and their handes with writing [Page 10] that, which whether it be true or false, tending to edification or destruction, they little care or consider.

2 But of the two, it is more to be marveiled at, that after so long and plentifull a flowing forth of the water of life, there should yet be anie of our countri-men and women remaining at home, who will tast of puddle water, yea bee as greedie to drinke thereof, as the maisters of the broken cisternes can bee ready to propose it vnto them. That come there forth any pamphlet, of what small worth soever, yet some or other will either for their ignorance admire it, or for their vnsetlednes entertaine it, or for their perversenes embrace it, as if it were some divine Oracle des­cended from aboue. But this is the instabilitie of their iudgment, who are once Gal. 3. 1. bewitched like the foolish Galathians, that al­though Christ hath beene so lively testified vnto them, as if hee had beene crucified before their eies, yet if newe teachers come one after another, they will earnestly attend, & listen vnto thē. The world is not so altered, but that in their passage to Num. 11. 4. Canaan, some Israelites wil loath that Māna, which is Ps. 78. 25. the bread of Angels, & long to be againe in Aegypt. If there were never philosopher so absurde to invent any fond opinion, but there were some au­ditours as absurde to maintaine and follow the same, who can conceive but that vntill the destructiō of that whore, the famous strumpet (with the Apoc. 17. 2 cup of whose fornication many of the Kings, and much of the people of the earth have bin dronken) shoulde stil have some inamored on her. As there ever will be deceivers, so there shall be some which will be deceived. Satan cannot give over his Iob. 2. 2. compassing the earth: his skoutes & messengers vvill entend his service. Some children of Idolaters to the worlds end, shall vnto the Exo. 20. 5. third and fourth generation participate of their parents curse, God with-drawing his grace from them, and not opening their eies: the peevish will decline, stumbling at some rocke of offence: weake women to shew themselves to be Eves daughters, will rather Gen. 3. 1. chuse to harken vnto the serpent then to God almighty: & young ones for want of iudgment and discre­tion, wil credulously listen to a Sirens Song. Thus it hath bin, and thus it wil be. Not withstanding, the Magistrate by his charge, & the Minister by his duty, & indeede every Christian in his place, [Page 11] is both for pieties and charities sake to endevour, to plucke as ma­ny as he can Iud. 23. out of the fire, as Saint Iude speaketh.

3 Yet this being graunted, that such leaders and such follow­ers there be and will be, it may neverthelesse be much marveiled at, that the wisedome of Poperie is so blinded, and the ability of English fugitives is growne to so low an ebbe in the Seminaries, that to make good their party they haue no better means to vse, but such base ones, as in this booke or libel are presented to the world. Especiallie since this treatise is pretended to come from a Doctor of Divinitie, and one taking degree in one of those Vni­versities, which by themselves bee See Rea­son 15. and Bristow Motive 31. reported to bee so famous, as that almost he who may but smell the smoake of them, or breath but a while on the ayre there, shal be inspired with knowledge, & have more learning Metaphysically infused into him, thē among vs is to bee attained to in many yeares. And can a man of the highest degree in schoole there, for the maintenance of his cause, bring no better then such worne & broken stuffe, as heere is cō ­gested and heaped togither? Yet worship betide him, who not long before the birth of this tract, put out the Certaine Articles, or forcible Reasons. 1600. Pamphlet, that, the Protestants haue no faith nor religion: that the learned Protestantes are Insidels: that the Protestants are bound in conscience to avoide all good workes: that the Protestants teach, that God is worse thē the De­vill, and such other worthy conclusions, to which D. Barlow. D. Buckley. two learned men haue made reply. For although he had but little honestie, in propounding such prodigious and portentuous monsters, yet he had more wit; since that caried some [...]ūble with it, albeit in such fort, as that those who respected it, were more afraide then hurt. That which comming vnawares, seemed to the improvident at the first to be some clap of thunder, was at the last discerned not to be so much as the striking vp of a drumme: It was no otherwise but a fewe stones shaken togither in an empty barrell. Yet the wile of the man is to be commended, that he could set som good words on it, as the Montibank [...] doth vse, who after open prote­station that he hath somthing to sel of admirable vertue, of incō ­parable value, of inestimable benefite, which the Graunde Seig­neour of the Turks, the Great Duke of Muscovy, the Emperor of Germany wil accept of, and desire, yea earnestly call for, which [Page 12] to have at their neede, Lords and Ladies will thinke themselves most happie: doth at the length & after all this flourish, produce some lippe-salve, or other such toy, as mooveth laughter in some, and serious indignation in other, who have not beene acquain­ted with the Mountibankes custome.

4 But this gallant with whom I haue to deale, and who speak­eth as hereafter you shall heare, imagining that all the men in England are as blind as he would have them to be, hath sent vs a fresh garment made of other mens olde clothes, which the most of vnderstanding have seene and knowne, to bee both worne bare and torne like the Ruines of Time. And hee hath little alte­red the verie fashion of it, saving peradventure to sette the right sleeve where the left formerly was, and something now before, which erst stood behinde. Indeed some peeces he hath shrunk, & drawne thē in narrower, to make them seeme the thicker: & some other few (for in sooth they are but few) he hath enlarged with a skirt or hem of new cloath: and yet willing to buy as little stuffe as possibly he might, in some places he hath sewed two or three ragges togither, so to make a pretty peece. The truth is, that now almost An. 1574. thirty yeeres since, a coūtry-man of ours, whom D. Fulke not vnfitly called Bl [...]ring Bristow, did with much bouldnesse and little learning put forth a booke, which he called his Motives vnto the Catholike saith. VVhich as then for satisfying of the sim­ple, & repressing of the craking insolency of the adversary, it was answered by a worthy man D. Fulkes Retentives. who now resleth with the Lord; yet since that time, (howsoever by some Romanists, Banke-rupts of better matter, it hath ever now & then slightly beene talked of) almost generally it hath lien contemned of all, scant worthy the naming or serious recounting. Yet of late because Master Parsons was busie about State-causes, or the supporting of his weake and languishing Arch-priest, and they have not manie other which may keep the mint going, in the yeare 1599. some body thought good to revise their olde t [...]inkets, and for lacke of richer stuffe, out were put these Motives againe, printed at Antwerpe, as in the first Page is prefixed. And albeit this were a Crambê, whereof most stomakes, which received it, had surfeted before; yet this honest friend D. Hill, thought he would not leave it so, but the [Page 13] verie next yeare 1600. after, and from the same forged place, & prin­ted with the same letters, for any difference that may bee seene betweene them, sendeth this script vnto vs, as if it were some new excellent booke, wheras indeede much of the forme & manner, and almost all the matter, for the ground thereof, is taken out of Bristow.

5 Yet of his olde Rectour M^r. Parsons, hee borroweth some fevve Memorandums, and heere and there a touch from Cam­pian, and a finger he hath in Staphilus translated by Stapleton, on al which he bestoweth ever now and then a little viperous aspersi­on of his own; if among so much taken vpon trust, we may iudge that to be his owne, which perhaps might bee found to belong to some other, if we had vse of all their bookes & dictates which they retaine among them. Had it not bin better for one of that learning which this title doth entend, to have translated a peece of Bellarmine, or Gregory de Ualencia out of Latine into English? If the worke had bin but meane, yet this had bin gained by the bargaine, that every English Papist & Protestant almost, had not bin acquainted with the matter before hand. But to take an olde English booke, and to make a new English booke of it, is but to take an olde garment, and to turne it and newe dresse it, where when all is done, because it is not onely turned but rotten stuffe also, it deserveth no better then to be turned out of dore, that it may finde no place in the conscience of any Christian man or woman. Where by the way it may be observed, that reasons for Popery grow fewer & fewer; for M^r. Bristow being of likely hood desirous to have made them vp fiftie, did stretch his witte so farre, as that, tales quales, he brought th [...] to eight and forty. But D. Hill hath reduced his number to five & twenty: And though he would have his friēds beleeve, In his se­cond letter that he can adde many more, yet the Reader shall finde that in these he hath involved almost all the remainder of Mr. Bristowes matter, as in the processe here­of shall be declared. And if heereafter he bring more, by Gods assistāce he shal have thē examined. In the meane while I will be dealing with these, whō after the French fashion he vttereth by the Quartron; and calling them A Quartron of Reasons, doth inti­mate vnto vs, that being wayed in the ballance of the Sanctuary [Page 14] they are as much worth as a quarterne of raysings. Let vs see now what proofe is made of his first stout proposition.

BEfore the comming of the Messiat, there was not any People, or Natiō which did serve the true and living God, but only the Iewes, al other whatsoever being overwhelmed in a Sea of blindnes, & wor s [...]ipping false Gods, which indeede were Devills, and therevpon the Mai­ster Devill Lucifer was tearmed Princeps huius mūdi, that is, Prince Ioan. 12. of this world, for that he was [...] and worshipped in all Landes & Kingdomes, Iewry, and that in part onely, excepted: which miserable state and condition God of his infinite mercy greatly pittying, promised in time to send a Saviour, which should redeeme all Nations & People, free them from that pittifull servitude and blindnesse, and bring them to the know­ledge of true and right Religion, by suffering death, and consequently by planting a Church, to the which all Nations should repaire. Thus he did fore-tell by diver se & sundry Prophets, as by Esay, who saide the Church should be as a mountaine, to the which All nations should slowe. And manie people shall goe and say; Come and let vs ascend to the Cap. 2. mountaine of our Lord: and after, Idols shall vtterly bee bruised, and to be briefe, all this Chapter, yea all the rest in a manner fore-shevv the same matter, declaring most plainely the conversion of all Nations to the Church of the Messias, and [...]vv Kinges and Queenes should come, Cap. 49. & 60. Dan 2 & 7. Psal 47. Mich. 4. Luc. 1. Psal. 71. and [...] homage vnto it, and that it should ever continue vvithout inter­ruption: and that it should be most ample and large, the Prophet David most manifestly fore-telleth, saying, that it should extend frō Sea to Sea, and from the river to the endes of the world, and how the Aethio­pians should fall downe Before the Messias, with the Kinges of Thar­sis, Arabia and Saba, and to be short, all Kings & People should acknow­ledge this Church, as innumerable Prophecies of the olde Testament doe plainely foreshew. Heerevpon it was that good men thirsted and longed so greatly for the comming of the Messias, knovving that by him all people which sate in darkenes, and in the shadow of death, should be lightened, de­livered, and set in the right way to Heaven. And so our Saviour b [...]selfe [Page 15] being now in the way to Ierusalem to suffer, saide, Now the Prince of this world shall be cast out: and, If I shall bee exalted from the Ioh. 12. earth, I will draw all to my selfe, meaning by his Passion to dravv all people from Heathenish Idolatrie to serve him.

6 I will not dispute with you, whether the maister Devil (whom the Iewes termed Luc. 11. 15. Beelzebub) bee called Lucifer or no, and whence that opinion had both his beginning and progresse: neither will I handle any other thing of like nature, which pro­perly belongeth not to that which is in difference betweene you and mee: But I will condescend vnto you, that some Iob, or Iethro or some fewe such excepted, the Church for the ordinarie com­passe of it, vvas after the entrance into Canaan, vvithin the boundes of Israel, that is, the twelve Tribes at the first, and after­ward in Iewry, accounting that to comprehend the men of Iuda and Beniamin, with the Levites. And on these tearmes it stood till the comming of our most blessed Saviour, concerning whose appearance Esay did foretell, that to Cap. 2. 2. the mountaine of the house of the Lord &c. all nations should flowe, And many people should goe and say, Come and let vs goe vp to the mountaine of the Lorde. But that which you cite of Idols, Vers. 18. And the Idols will he vtterly destroy, how­soever it may be applied vnto Christ, yet if you looke againe, it may well be disputed to belong in that Chapter to another time and matter; and then you in referring the whole, to the revealing of the Messias, may very well be deceived. I will not stand vvith you, but that Esay and Daniel, and David and the other sacred writers, do give ample testimony of a copious confluence every way to the Church. As also it must be yeelded that men longed for the comming of the fore-appointed Saviour, since hee it vvas alone who should bring ioy vnto mākind. Only by the way I do tell you, that in delivering the words of Esay, you are bould with the text, when you put it, Our Lord, whereas no such word, as Our, is there to be foūd. But that is your custome to hale in that word throughout the whole newe Testament, it neither being in the [Page 16] Greeke nor in the vulgar Latine. Onely the [...] Rhemists doe en­ioyne In 1. Tim. 6. 20. it to their obedient children, that they must not say, The Lord, but Our Lord, as we say, Our Lady, for his mother, not the Lady, & this they make to be a marke of difference betweene themselves so speaking, and vs saying after the Scripture, The Lord. And accor­dingly our English people doe practise it, if they savour of Pope­ry [...] so much that in all my life I have scant heard any in cōmon speech alwaies saying, Our Lord, but that party hath more or lesse beene tainted that way.

7 Furthermore when you name Heathenish Idolatrie, doe you give it that Epitheton, as meaning that Christ would put an end to the horrible superstitions of the Ethnicks, but that there should stil be Idolatry in your Synagogue, which by no meanes you wil forgoe? Or is it rather your minde, that all Idolatrie is heathenish, and that there can bee none in the daies of the newe Testament? Indeede so M^r. Bristow your good maister, woulde make vs be­leeve, saying, Motiv. 32. So must wee everie vvhere vnderstand Idols in the olde Testament, that they were figures of Heresyes in this time of the nevve Testament, no other Idols being now but Heresies. Ponitur Idolum quan [...] do novum dogma constituitur &c. An Idoll is sell vp, when a newe Posi­tion (or Heresy) is erected, saith Saint Hierome, the most learned & ex­pert In Ier. 32. interpreter of the Scriptures. Saint Paule also himselfe giving his voice thervnto, where by Baal, the Idoll that God did speake of to Elias, Rom. 11. be teacheth vs to vnderstād the erroneous wicked doctrin against Christ, 3. Reg 19. of his incredulous Countrie-men the Iewes of his time. This is good Lo­gicke M^r. Bristow, and for the sweetnes of the conclusion, fit to be studied in your Popish Vniversities. An Idoll is set vp when a new doctrine is erected, (which is a figurative vnderstanding) & Baal may in some application signisie an erroneous doctrine, Ergo there bee now no other Idols but Heresies, neither have bin vn­der the Gospell. By this reckoning you doe well in your Cate­chismes to leave out the second commandement, as not at al be­longing to the newe Testament. But why did Saint Iohn, after Christs death and ascension too, bidde, 1. Ioh 5. 21 [...]. Babes keepe your selves from Idolls. And is it not saide else where speaking of times, after the opening of the Apoc. 8. 1. seventh seale, and when the sixt Cap 9. 13. Angell had sounded his trumpet, that is to say, towards the end of the [Page 17] world, that men Cap 9. 20. [...]. repented not of the deedes of their handes, that they should not worship Devils, and Idols of gold and silver, and brasse & stone, and of wood, which neither can see, neither heare, neither goe, which be­ing taken with al the circumstāces, is a most manifest convictiō, that in the later daies there should be materiall Idols. To which may be added the Idols destroied by Cōstantine, three hundred yeares after Christ, & the intolerable Idolatry which in this last age hath beene discovered to be committed, in the East Indies, America and many parts of Africa, by diverse Ethnicks and Infi­dels, which did & do inhabit there. Therefore you cannot so run away & escape, but that evē now also Idolaters you may be. This I note to shew how your Popery doth hang vpon gimols.

NOw if the Religion of the Papists (as these new men tearme them) be false & arronious, then is it against the Messias, and consequent­ly it is a Religion of the Devils owne invention, and hee the maister and inspirer thereof, and so by it he is served and worshipped: and then must it needes follow that the Prophets were false, yea Christ himselfe saide not truely, in telling his Disciples, that the Prince of this world, that is, the Divell, should then be cast out, and that he would draw all to himselfe, for that since his passion the Divell bath had a more large and ample domini­on then he had before.

8 Very bluntly & boisterously is your second Propositiō here connected to your former: where we wil not be straight­laced toward you, but readily yeelde you the tearme of Papists. For if Christians be such as depend vpon Christ, you may wel be called Papists, as resting your summn̄ bonū vpō the Popes pleasure & determination. Neither shall you neede much to presse vs, to grant that your Religion, or rather Superstitiō is false & erronious, yea against the Messias, & as far forth as the abuses of it stretch, of the Divels owne invention. For Saint Paule doth teach vs, that it is 1. Tim. 4. [...]. 2. 3. doctrine of Divels, to speake false in hypocrisie, to forbid to marrie, [Page 18] to abstaine from meates, vvhich God hath created to bee receaved vvith giving of thankes; the first wherof, most of you plētifully performe, the second you inhibit to some men at all times, the third to all men at some times, and that not for state-governmēt, but for Re­ligion sake. But the sequel of your inference, doth prove to be a most discinct and dissolute thing: for howe will it then followe that the Prophets were false, and Christ saide not truely? Marry, in telling his Disciples that the Prince of the worlde, that is, the Devill should then bee cast out, and that he would drawe all to himselfe. Which doe you so expound, as that all Nations of the world should im­mediately after his death, resurrection, and ascension be conver­ted to the faith, & should alwaies so cōtinue? which your former words may wel seeme to import, by your inculcating of Al Fol. 2. Na­tions, & having afterwards subioyned vnto it, ever continue without interruption, &, Fol. 3. all Kinges & people should acknowledge this Church, & againe, all people which sate in darkenes, & in the shadow of death, should be lightened, delivered, and set in the right way to Heaven. If you take it thus, you are pitifully out: for our Saviour hath fore-told that into the Math. 7. 13 wide gate & broad way, that leadeth to destruction, many there be which enter; but the straight gate and narrow way that leadeth vnto life, few there be that finde. And it was reveiled vnto Iohn, that with the whore of Babylon the Apoc. 17. 2. Kings of the earth committed fornication, & the inhabitours of the earth are drunken with the wine of her fornica­tion. And experience hath confirmed, that not only the Saracene doctrin hath for almost these thousād yeeres possessed the shew & face of many great countries; but time out of mind, very Gen­tilisme & Heathenisme have raigned in the East & West Indies, in the Ilands neere adioyning, in diverse parts of Africa, in Lap­pia, and many other countries, the name of Iesus our Redeemer (for ought that of certainty can be found) till of late yeeres being scant ever heard of among them. Or doe you rather vnderstand those speeches of all Nations cōming vnto him, & of all being drawne vnto Christ, to carry this sence, that the Gentiles nowe, as well as formerly the Iewes, should bee admitted, and moreover that the word should bee spreade to the East and to the VVest, and to the North and to the Southe, so that before the day of iudg­ment, God should have some faithfull in everie quarter; and [Page 19] sometimes when his Church did flourish many thousands in di­verse places, and alwaies some servants some-where? In this meaning if you take it, we willingly ioyne with you, the rather in­duced thervnto by the nature of the word, All, in the Scriptures, and by the manner of the fulfilling of those Prophecies in the Church, in such a sort as with reason cannot be gaine-saide. For as All in holy writte doth evermore at least signifie many, so it doth not cōtinually importe a generality without any sort of excepti­on. When it is saide that to Iohn the Baptist Math. 3. 5. vvent out Hierusa­lem and all Iewry, and all the region round about Iordan, it is not meant that no individuall person did stay at home, but many of all sortes, rich and poore, young and olde, men and women, such a company as if almost all the country had come in, were parta­kers of his Baptisme. So Tit 2. 11. [...]. the grace of God hath appeared, which bring­eth salvation to all men, saith Saint Paule to Titus. Like to which is that to Timothy, 1. Tim. 2. 4. God our Saviour, who will that all men shall be saved; where All intendeth many, or diverse of diverse sorts, not vniver­sally every one. He will have all to be saved, saith Gregory, In 1. Reg. 14. because out of every sort of men hee chooseth those whome hee draweth to the ioye of everlasting salvation. And Aquinas himselfe among other inter­pretations of that later place, hath this, Part 1. q. 19. a. 6. It may bee vnderstood that the distribution must be made pro generibus singulorum, and not, pro sin­gulis generum, according to this sence: God vvill have of every state of men to be saved: males and females, Iewes and Gentiles, smal and great, but not all of every severall state. And who will say that in every particular countrie of Asia, or the continent toward the South pole, or many other quarters of the world, the Church of Christ hath alwaies apparantly bin? The Romanists of al other must not say so; if they will have the cōgregation of Gods faithful to extēd it selfe no further thē their doctrine & the Popes vsurpatiō doth goe. For they cannot prove that ever those regions heard of the name of the Romane Bishop vntill this last age, if now they doe, or have lately done. This thē we grant vnto you: that Christ Iesus hath evermore a Church, & that variously dispersed vnder the cope of heavē, not boūded within narrow precincts, as that of the Iewes was. The goodly titles also which in the word are givē vn­to it, are ever true in respect of the purity of religiō, but especially [Page 20] for the fundamental points which finally cōcerne salvation. And they are also as true for the visible glory of the church in time of peace & the free course of the Gospel: but are not perpetually & without interruption, to be vnderstood for the patent extent of the same, & that gloriously & apparātly to be in any one coun­trey of the world, as the defenders of the Romane Hierarchy would chalenge to themselves.

FOR before the comming of the Messias, the people of the Iewes, & many others also in other Lands, which were of the Iewish Religion, vvere in some sorte farre from the bondage of the Devill; but since his comming both Iewes and Gentiles and almost all Nations, Tribes and Kingdomes have bin ever in Lucifers thraldome vntill this our age, in which Luther came to expell Lucifer, and to ridde all the world out of his captivity. And so the passion of our Redeemer availed little or nothing at all, for the space of these fifteene hundred yeeres; & for a thousand yeeres together hee was so farre from drawing all vnto him as hee said hee would do, that he drew not so much as one person that any mā can name. And in Ioh. 12. our Country there of England, it is most manifest that all were Papistes without exception from the first Christening thereof, vntill this age of King Henry the eight.

9 YOV labour to proove, that if you bee not the Church, the Devils dominion since Christes time hath bin larger then ever it was before. And your reason is, that before the com­ming of Christ, the Iewes and other of the Iewish profession in o­ther lands were in some sort free from the bondage of the Devil: (which is true in all those who by the eies of faith did foresee the birth, life & death of the Messias, & did beleeve on him, reputing him their Redeemer, as [...] Iob did call him) but since his manifestation, say you, Iewes & Gentiles & almost all Nations, Tribes & Kingdomes [...] Iob. 19. 25. have bin ever in Lucifers thraldome vntill this our age, in which Luther came to expell Lucifer &c. I wōder that you can suffer the name of Luther to passe so quietly without some egregious contumely: [Page 21] but keeping it for him you only stay it a while, & anon he shall have it. But being heere in the heigth of that argument, which a­bove all other pleaseth your side, and the very rehearsing where­of (as you woulde make your doating followers beleeve) doth make vs all Campian Ration. 3. looke pale; you amplifie your former proposition, that if this be yeelded vnto, Christs passion availed little or nothing at all for fifteene hundred yeeres; but for a thousand yeeres hee vvas so farre from drawing all vnto him, that he drewe not so much as one person that any man can name. This is spoken like a man of some mettal in­deede: & by this shal your disciples know how to trust you here­after. But as if yet you had deserved but one end of a sharping­stone, and meant to have the rest with you before that you de­part, you tel vs that in our own coūtry, there of England, (which whe­ther you speake with some contept or no, your selfe can best dis­cover) it is most manifest that all were Papists without exception, from the first Christening therof, vntill this age of King Henry the eight. You are a blessed companion, & a man may beleeve much vpon your word. Doubtlesse you perswade your selfe that all, who should reade your booke, would be madde, or drunke, or senselesse, or else you must thinke that they would admitte and admire you for a singular lyar. Besides that of Antiquitie, the vvritings and testimony of your owne men, will convince you in this to have neither wit nor shame. VVe make it good against you, that the thousands and ten thousands of the servants of God in the Pri­mitive Church knew at the first nothing; and afterwards but lit­tle of your blasphemous Popery, and that not in the mainest points: And albeit in processe of time, superstitiō (as it was 2. Thes. 2. 3. 1. Tim. 4. 1. 2. Pet. 2. 1. fore­told) did by little and little creepe in, yet in all ages God had his Church of such as did not spotte their soules with your horrible contammations: And we maintaine it, that in our owne lande there were testimonies most luculent, of such as detested the An­tichristiā pride, & other loose behaviour of the Romane Clergy, both in doctrin & manners, & served the Lord after the prescript of his owne word, as now we do endevor to do. If you know not this M^r. Doctor, you have reade but little, & so in some sort we question your scholarship: or else you have reade it, and so wee question your conscience. But vvee vvill hope the best, that it is [Page 22] your ignorance: although these present propositions and many other in your booke, doe give vs great occasion to suspect your honest conscience. Your owne men will be ashamed, that you talke in this fashion, as anon you shall perceive. But I follow you a while.

AND so the Protestants affirme of other Countries, & boldly say, Luther in postil Ger. 1537 part. 2. fol. 141. that vntill this age, the Gospell lay in the dust, & was hiddē vnder the bench, and Christ was vnknowne. Which to say (as the Prote­stants must needes say, and blush not to say indeede) is meere madnes and flat infidelitie, and a plaine denying of Christ, and no small establish­ment of Mahomets Religion. For the Protestantes and Mahumetanes agree in this, that the Church which Christ founded, fell some five or sixe hundred yeeres after his ascension, into most horrible errours, and then (say the Turkes) the Angell Gabriel was sent from God to Mahomet, to teach him hovve hee shoulde reforme the saide Church, because it would not stande with the wisedome and goodnesse of Almight [...] God to suffer his Church to vanish avvaie through errours and superstitions, vvithout sending in time to reforme it. And in this, out of doubte, the Turkes have farre greater reason then the Protestantes have, vvhich Protestants by their doctrin make Christ the most simple & most improvi­dent Lavve-giver that ever was in the vvorld. For neither Plato, Solon, Lycurgus nor any other Lavv-maker vvhosoever, was so simple and im­provident as to fashion and plant a Common-wealth, which before it were vvell setled should vanish away and come to nothing, having no sufficient meanes to prevent errours, and such abuses as would ever throvve their Lawes, & destroy their Cm̄on wealths. And therfore if Christ bee God, & the holy Bible true, the Religion of the Papists must needes be that Re­ligion which he ordained, and left to all generations, and consequently the onely true and right Religion.

10 SInce by your last fore-going wordes, it hath appeared to bee your profession, in your owne person to speake largely, it is most probable that to the vttermost you will racke and pervert the speeches of other. There is neither Luther nor any other Pro­testāt [Page 23] so absurd, as to say according to that which you would inti­mate heere, that there was no Church till of late, & that the Gos­pell was absolutely hidden, or Christ simplie vnknowne vntill their daies. For we well vnderstand, & teach cōtrary-wise, that in the Primitive Church plentifully, & afterward alwaies more or lesse, in some parts of the world or other, there were the Elect of God, who groning to behould the common errours of their age, did strive to beleeve and live after the rule of the Scriptures. But the speech of Luther & of vs in that behalfe is comparative: that in comparison of that which it should bee: or that which had bin not long after the Apostles: or in respect of that which the Lord hath of late reveiled: or of that which by the faithfull might have bin wished, the Gospel had not for some later ages, so free a course, and Christ was not so ordinarlly & vnpollutedly taught; but the Bible lay much neglected, and was cast aside in compa­rison of other bookes. And while we acknowledge this, we need not to blush, neither is it madnesse in vs, but Act. 26. 25 the words of truth and sobernes, as Saint Paule said in a like vniust accusation: nor yet in­fidelity, or denying of Christ, or the establishing of Mahomets Religion. Heere you heape vp many wordes, but are not able to prove the least part of your owne Propositions: wee must there­fore give you leave to say much, & conclude nothing. Your vn­iust imputatiō that not only in this, but in diverse other matters, we ioyne with the Turkes, you borrow of Doctor Gefford, who no lesse slaunderously then crakingly, pretēdeth to do great things in his Calvino-Turcismus. (The maliciousnes wherof is already dis­played, and the crime returned by a learned D. Sutliv. in Turco. Papismo. man vpon the Pa­pists themselves.) It is to be hoped that the Authour thereof will either in time repent him and turne to grace, or receive the re­ward of his blasphemous speeches against Christs Religion, & his venimous revilings against his naturall Prince & country. In the meane while he may looke to the clearing of his credit, from the accusations of father Parsons, Parsons manifesta­tion cap. 1. & 7. who describeth him to be very ill qualified, & no better thē a fire-brād in kindling dissension evē among the English fugitives of the Romane Colledge. But for our parts, know you, ô the whole rable of the Romish generatiō, that vvee from the bottome of our heartes detest Turcisme and [Page 24] Mahumetisme, and know that Mahomet was a false Prophet, & never had Angel, (vnlesse it were one of darknes) sent vnto him. And as touching the Church of Rome, we are not ignorant that before the daies of Mahomet, it did by little & little decline, but in the time of Phocas the Emperour & Boniface Vide Plat. in Bonif. 3. the third, then Pope, (which was neere to the daies of Mahomet) the malignity of it did grow much greater. And since that season, the mistery of iniquity hath wrought forward & forward, & it is almost grown to the ruine of it selfe. But in al this time the Cōgregatiō of Gods servāts was never extinct, not the Church brought to such passe, as that Mahomet one of the great enimies of Christianity should neede to reforme it. His reformation was deformation, and to his power he would like the Psa 80. 13. Boare of the Forrest, haue rooted vp Christs vine-yard. If then you will vnderstande what it is which we doe teach, the Turkes haue not so much as in shew, any the like reason for their most vaine assertion, as we haue for our posi­tion; since our doctrine in this case is laid vpon a sure foundatiō, which with all your invectiues you shall no more be able to im­peach, thē you can hurt the Moone with stones throwne against her. Neither do we make Christ a simple & improvident law-giver, but wise, & wisdome it selfe in al his actions, since he determined before hand what he would haue done, & that not after your i­maginations, but after the depth & purpose of his own coūsaile; & accordingly in time he perfourmed it. For he had ever those who were his Congregation, & Common-wealth, observing his statutes; & this regiment was better setled then that of Solon or Lycurgus was, the precincts of whose government were boūded within the territories of the Spartane & Athenien Iurisdictiō, & in the compasse of some hundreds of years came to their period & end. But this of our Saviour is restrained within no limits of time, (but is perpetual,) nor circuite of place, otherwise then as it seemeth good to his infinite wisdome, to restraine or to enlarge it. Now whereas you ioine here with Solon and Lycurgus the law-giver Plato, I pitty your over-sight. For that Cōmon-wealth which Plato imaginarily erected, did indeede vanish away and come to nothing, before it was setled. For all men of learning can tell you, that there never was any such matter in rerum natura, [Page 25] but in his bookes De Platon. Dialog. de Rep. Republica he propounded speculatiuely, what was to be striven and contended for, if wee could attaine to perfection. But if I should aske you in what City, or within the compasse of what Country it was established, you cānot answer me: vnlesse after much study you should remember your selfe, & reply that it was in Sir Thomas Moores Vtopia, and famous Citi­zens there, were Aristotles Felix, and Tullyes Oratour, & Casti­lios Courtier; and Xenophons Cyrus albeit hee could not bee a Monarch there, yet caryed the mainest sway. Wel, I pardon you this fault: notwithstanding requesting you to put it among your negligences and ignorances; and telling you withall, that our boyes and ordinary scholers, in those Rat. 15. Vniversities which you seeme to vi [...]sie, can informe you, that Plato was a Law-maker, and a Common-wealth establisher, but by imagination. And so nothing here said doth hinder, but that Christ may be God, as in­deed he is Rom. 9. 5. God over all, blessed for ever, and the holy Bible true, as verily it is the sacred rule of truth; and yet the Religion of the Pa­pists is not that Religion which Christ ordained, or left to all generations, but a meere profanation of his Word & Sacramentes, a horrible abomination, the service of Antichrist, idolatry and superstition. And so I let you breath a while [...]dismissing you notwithstanding with this close, that although in this Chapter you tooke some more paines then you meant to doe hereafter, because this is the front of your booke, yet the ground of this your formost Tracte is taken from the Motiv. 37. & 45. seven and thirtith, and fiue & fortith Motive of Bristow; you, to colour the matter, placing the end almost of his booke in the beginning of yours. But here-after you wil shew your selfe more plainely, as from Chapter to Chapter I shall re­member you.

11 ANd heere the Christian Reader will pardon me, if partly to shew the ignorance and indiscreete folly of this fresh gamesler, and partly to stoppe the mouthes of other our clamo­rous adversaries, but especially to satisfie the weake, I doe adde something more in the former argument, although by diverse of our men much heeretofore hath beene suide to that purpose, both in English and Latine. VVee doe therefore teach, that as from the beginning long before the incarnation of Christ, God [Page 26] ever had his Church, yet sometimes more visible and glorious, and sometimes more contracted and obscured; so since the ap­pearance of our Saviour, at all times infallibly & without excep­tion, there haue beene chosen children of God, who haue retai­ned his faith, & calling vpon his name haue studyed to expresse their knowledge in their life, by retiring themselues both from the loose conversation of Libertines, and the profanations of I­dolatrous persons. Neither ever was there any of our profession, which did teach or write the contrary. But whereas the Syna­gogue of Rome lay it downe for a fundamentall rule, that this Church hath beene and must be in all ages, a visible and conspi­cuous congregation at the least, consisting of an apparant Hierar­chy, so that at all times a man may point it out, and may repaire thither as to a matter eminent, yea and in a sort pompous too, or to say as Stapleton speaketh when hee doth most extenuate it, In Antid. Matth 24. It is evermore visible in respect of her governours and sheepe-heards, but most of all for the Pope or chiefe Pastour thereof; to which Pope, De Roma. no Pontif. 4. 4. Bellarmine assigneth, that he cannot erre in iudgement, and to the people and Cleargy of Rome (where this sensible Church must principally be) that they cannot erre with a personall errour, so that all altogether erre; we therein doe dissent from them, & main­taine that although when the godly are most driven to extremi­ties, by heresies or persecutions, they be visible each to other, & acquainted with some other brethren who are in like case vvith themselues, yet they are not so apparant to other men, as that at all times they know where to finde assemblies, and congregati­ons of them. But that the Bishop of Rome and his Pontificall Cleargy, should haue the face of the Church tyed, and insepara­bly ioined vnto them, we can in no sort yeeld, but doe disclaime it as a flattering tale, suggested to that Bishop by such parasites as are about him, and from time to time doe depend vpon him.

12 And that it may be seene what reason we haue of this our assertiō, we first shew, that the estate of the faithful was frequent­ly so, before the cōming of Christ. For when it lay as hid in some few persons, within the single families of the old Patriarkes, be­fore and after the flowd, what great boast could there be made of it? Nay when the Common-wealth of the Iews was much set­led, [Page 27] into what straights was it brought, when David complained, Psal. 12. 1. Helpe Lord for there is not a godly man lest: for the faithfull are failed from among the children of men; this being spoken, as it is most pro­bable, in the daies of Saul, after the death of Samuel, and the 1. Sam. 22. 18. slaughter of the Priests. How was it even in Iudah and Hieru­salē, when Esay cryed out, that the Isai. 1. 5. 6. whole head is sicke, and the whole heart is heavy? from the soale of the foote vnto the head there is nothing whole therin; the estate of the Church being then most miserable, and all depraved, not only in manners, but in religion, Idolatry beeing plentifull as is manifest by the words in the same vision, vers. 29. for they shall be confounded for the Okes, which yee haue desired, and yee shall be ashamed of the gardens which yee haue chosen, which intendeth the trees and pleasant places where they vsed their superstitions. Call to minde the daies of leremy, when he said, Ier. 5. 1. Runne to & fro by the streetes of Hierusalem, and beholde now and know and inquire in the open places therof, if yee can finde a man, or if there be any that ex­ecuteth iudgement, and seeketh the truth, and I will spare it: And those of Ezechiel testifying in this sort, I Ezech 22. 30. sought for a man among them that should make vp the hedge, and stande in the gappe before mee for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. These things were said of Iudah and Hierusalem, where alone at that time was that Church which was, the Israelites for their grievous sinnes being long before caryed away into captivitie. You may adde to this, if you wil, the complaint of Micah, Micah. 7. 1 We is me, for I am as the Somer gatherings, and as the grapes of the vintage: there is no cluster to [...] my soule desired the first ripe fruites. The good man is perished out of the earth, and there is none righteous among men: they all lie in waite for blond: every man [...]teth his brother with a net. If the Priests & peo­ple had not almost generally gone astray, and the whole face of the visible Church had not seemed to be defaced, would these Prophets thus haue particularized, that one godly man was not left, that one was not to bee founde who had not declined from truth?

13 We doubt not but in those times the Lord had many faith­full ones in secret, as he had seaven thousand in Israell when 1. King. 19. 18. Rom 11 4. E­lias lived, of whom neither the enemies of the truth, nor scant that Prophet did take any notice. The Ezech. 9. 4 Apoc. 7 3. marke in the foreheade [Page 28] is sometime knowne to fewe, but onely to him who imprinted it there; yet this is a good holde for the Elect, 2. Tim. 2. 19. The Lordknovveth who are his. But vpō what might those, who were Gods secret cho­sen, out wardly build, when diverse times the Princes and people had corrupted their waies, and the Temple it selfe was polluted and made a sinke of Idolatry? For wee find that things stood vpō those termes in the daies of Manasse, vvhen in the house of the Lord, even that house whereof the Lord had saide, 2. Reg. 21. 4. 5. In Hierusa­lem will I put my name, he built profane altars: and in the two courtes of the house of the Lord he built altars for all the hoste of Heaven. Iudge where in those daies was the glory of the visible church, or where it was a pretty while before that, whē the Priest 2. Reg. 16 11. Vriah was as rea­dy to set vp in the tēple an altar after the fashiō of that which was in Damascus, as the King Ahaz was ready to cōmād it. And then the Prince & Priests cōspiring, there was scāt any kind of grosse Idolatry, which was not plētifully cōmitted. Ahaz himselfe ma­king Vers. 3. his son to goe through the fire after the abominations of the Hea­thē. And least it should be thought that the people at least, did a­mend somewhat which was amisse, in the very next Chapter it is witnessed in generall, 2 Reg. 17. 19. Yet Iudah kept not the cōmandements of the Lord their God, but walked according to the fashion of Israell which they vsed. And by most probability, this outrage vnder Isa. 1. 1. Ahaz was the tune, against which Esay so inveighed in the visiō before remem­bred. These things are so plaine, that the greatest pillars of the Pa­pacy cānot deny thē; & therfore they are forced to another shift, as the Rhemists whē they say, In Rom. 11. 4. that there is a great differēce between the Christian Church & the Iewes, ours resting vpō better promises then the [...]s; which is a very poore eva [...]ion, in as much as every Divine may knowe, that there bee as large and many promises, that the Church of the Iewes should last vntill Christs appearance in the flesh, as there be that the Cōgregatiō of Gods Saints, shal cōtinue among the Gētiles vntil the day of Iudgmēt. And saving only for the time of the Babylonish captivity, there was one set externall place of Gods eminēt service, that is, the Tēple at Ierusalē, suppor­ted with such words, Psal. 132. This is my rest for ever: heere will I dwell, &c. &, 2. Chr. 33. 4. In Ierusalē shal my [...]me be for ever; she like wherof throughout al the cōtinuance of the new Testamēt, is not warrantable out of the word, for any one place whatsoever. No it cānot so much as [Page 29] superficially be maintained out of the Scripture that Rome it selfe hath any such promise: but rather out of the Revelatiō of S^t. Iohn there are many substātial matters which make to the contrary.

14. But because by the strōg shot of truth, they be beatē frō the bulwarke of the Iewish Synagogue, & fly to the next hold of the later Testamēt, let vs follow thē thither. Whē our Saviour Christ was borne, & for the most part afterward till hee was baptized, where shal we cōceive, was the visible Church? The Scribes and Pharisees possessed al the shew, & they were no better thē Mat. 23. 24 blind guides of the blind. The 2. Mach 4. 8. 24. c. 11. 3. Ioseph. de bel. Iud 4. 5 & lib. 5. 9. Priest-hood was long before and after bought & sold; & in Christs own time, it is evidēt out of the Scrip ture, that the highest spiritual dignity going by Ioh. 11. 51. yeeres, Annas & Caiphas & other vnworthy mē of that rabble did enioy it. Vpō the birth of Iesus, they were not glad who should most have re­ioyced in it, but al Ierusalem was Math. 2. 3. troubled at it. And how they persisted afterward till Christ did manifest himselfe fully, may be guessed by diverse circūstances, which the Evāgelists do mētion after his birth. But whē he came first into the world, of whom do we find speech made, but of some shep-heards in the field, of Si­meon an old mā, of Anna a most aged womā; both ready to goe in­to their graves, of Ioseph & Mary, Zacharias & Elizabeth and very fewe other? And of these some might be soone dead, other lived out of the way, at Beth-lehem or Nazareth or in Aegypt, & the shepheards were in the fields about their trade; but where there was the apparācy of a visible cōgregatiō, cā hardly be imagined. Whē our Saviour had selected out his Apostles, they then were termed by the name of a Flock, but yet by their master they were called but a Luc. 12. 32. little flocke, where the Rhemists do confesse, that Rhemens. ibi. in the beginning it was little indeed. At the death of Christ, whē his bo­dy hanged on the Crosse for our sakes, & his disciples were Math. 26. 56. all fled, no man daring to shew himselfe, Ioh. 19. 25. Nic. Cle­man. de mater▪ Cō ­cil. Mary & Iohn & a few wo­mē were al the faithful that now appeared vpō earth. And after­ward while the Apostles & their followers walked very privately, or were assēbled in a Act. 1. 13. chāber, the Priests, & Scribes & Pharisies were they who [...]uffled it in the streets, & bore the sway in the Tē ­ple: so that if a weak body had enquired for the church, he might rather have bin directed to thē, who had the law & the altars & al [Page 30] sacred things in their custody, then to any other. When Act. 8. 1. Steevē had beene stoned, and for feare of the persecution, which was at Hierusalem, the disciples were all scattered besides the Apostles, it may well be presumed that for a time, they which remained in the citty, where Steevē had lost his life, did not walke very opē ­ly. Truth it is that after these things the Church was better set­led, and the truth was more spread: but yet never was there any such priviledge bestowed vpon it, but that in the daies of perse­cutiō, or some grievous Apostasie, the faithful might be brought to a smal visibility.

15 Our Saviours words intend so much, when alluding to the time of his second appearāce, to iudge the quicke & the dead, he asketh, Luk 18. 8. Neverthelesse, when the sonne of man commeth, shall hee finde faith on the earth? as meaning that very little should then be to be found, in comparison of the flowds and Ocean of iniquity, which every where should abound. But God to the end that he might not haue vs ignorāt, but warned before hand, into what straights the Church should be brought, informeth vs by Saint Paul, that the Lord shall not come, except there first be an 2. Thes. 2. 3 [...]. Apostasie, or revolt, or falling away, wherein Antichrist with great pride and disdaine should shew himselfe. This is solemnely spoken of by the Apostle, & by al both old & new intreating of it, is observed to signifie some matter of great note, that is to say, some maine declining from somewhat. Many of our Papists fearing to touch this soare which can in no case turne them to good, would haue this interpreted to note nothing else, but the slipping of divers regions & countries, frō their subiection to the Romane Empire. But Gregory Martin and the other Rhemists, being overcome with the evidence of truth, are heere a litle more honest then or­dinary, and speake to other purpose. Indeede they cannot tell how it will be taken at other Papists hands, that contrary to the custome of their fellows, in a matter of such moment, they should giue way vnto vs, and therefore they doe vse these words in way of excuse, be Rhemens. in 2. Thes. 2 3. it spoken vnder the correction of Gods church, & al lear­ned Catholikes. But to the point, concerning the Apostasie they deliver this; It is very like that this great defection and revolt, shall not be only from the Romane Empire, but specially from the Romane church, [Page 31] and withall, from most pointes of Christian Religion. In the margent it is, and from most articles of the Catholike faith. Here they would haue vs take the Romish beleefe, for the Christian Religion & Catho­like faith: but that deserveth a long pause. We rather obserue out of them, that this revolt is in matter of faith, and not onely from the Empire; then which glosse nothing can be truer. Well then, if there must be so egregious an Apostasie, it wil follow, that Antichrist so dominering, as by the Apostle he is described, will not be negligent so to represse the publike service of God, that it shall not carry any liuely head or countenance, where he hath to doe. So that certainely our Rhemists yeelding to this expositi­on, doe in substance confesse so much, as that the apparencie of Gods congregation, in the time of the great defection, must bee mightely eclipsed. Now the Lord, to the end that he might esta­blish his faithfull, and arme them to expect this paucity of belee­vers, and inconspicuousnes of his Church, and yet not be discou­raged for that which should be past, present, or to come; and a­gaine that there might be no doubt in a matter of this moment, letteth vs farther know, that the Apoc. 12. 6 womā fled into the wildernes, where shee hath a place prepared of God. It is not doubted of betweene the Romanists & vs, but that this woman doth represēt the church, concerning whom being in the wildernes, it doth manifestly fol­low, that for the time of her aboad there, which the Almightie had decreed, shee should not be discerned; that is, by her ene­mies, who did and would chase her: not withstanding it be not to be doubted, but shee knew where her selfe was. If the Romanist therefore and persecuting Adversary, did not ever see the profes­sors of the Gospel, it was no wonder, the woman was to remaine in the wildernes apart & hid from them. The evidence of which matter is such, that as Master In praefat. super Apo­calyps. Foxe observeth, for feare of divers things in the Revelation of S. Iohn (wherof this may worthily be one) scant any Popish writer for many yeares togither, durst ad­venture to comment any thing vpon the Apocalyps, vntill our Rhemists being desirous to shame the Pope & themselues, with all who are wise, adventured to set penne to paper. Having then a purpose to set foorth, and corrupt the New Testament, partly by their Translation, but most of all by their Annotations, they [Page 32] may not chuse but say somewhat of the Revelation, although they professe that it is as In argu­ment. Apo­calyps. & in Apoc. 1. 1. sparingly as may be, & as briefly; which is not for that the volume of the Rhemish Testament groweth great, as they would colour it, but for feare least they should too much lay open their owne weaknesse, which while that booke is in the Bible, will never be concealed. Howsoever therefore through their volume, in many maine matters they be very silent, vvhere they should most speak; as of the question of imputed righteous­nes, where the Rom 4. vi de Ration. 14. Apostle doth most handle it, (a [...]ore argument of their owne conscience distrusting their cause, & even sinking vnder the waight of that Chapter) yet here God over-ruling thē to say a truth, as he did Ioh. 11. 50 Cayphas, they interprete the woman to be the In Apoc. 12. 6. Church, flying from the great persecution which shall bee in the time of Antichrist. Indeede to keepe peace with their Lord and Master the Pope, they will not haue this flight to be, but in the very ending of the world, and so they would fetch it with a back racket, that the woman should continue so in secret, but three yeares & an halfe, which (to keepe all vpright) they assigne to be the time of Antichrists raigne, & then the iudgement must come; which is a most fonde evasion, seeing by that means men living at the appearance of Antichrist, should bee able precisely to tell, when the last day should be, to wit, three yeares and a halfe after Antichrists entring. But of Mark. 13. 32. that day and houre knoweth no man, no not the Angels which are in heaven, neither the Sonne himselfe, saue the Father only. It can never be made good, that the Apoc. 11. 2 3. c. 12. 6. c. 13. 5. Dan 7 25. time, times, and halfe a time, the two and forty moneths, and the thousand two hundred and sixty daies, are so literally to be taken, as that they should containe exactly three ordinary yeares and a halfe. Your Romane Bishop in his declination, hath already beene in the world much longer, and he is the greatest Antichrist that ever yet was manifested among men, and on whom many things in the Scripture signified touching Antichrist, do directly and vn­avoidably light.

16 Well, this revolt taking place, and the woman the Church being in the wildernes, it is not to be doubted, but here & there be diverse which serue God aright, the very Mat. 16. 18 gates of hell not bee­ing able to prevaile against them. And as these in generall, wher­soever [Page 33] dispersod, doe make vp the vniversal militant Church, so where any few of them, evē in the smallest number, are assēbled tog [...]ther, they may bee saide to be a particular Congregation or Church. Exhorta­tio ad casti­tatem Where three are, saith Tertullian, there is a Church although they bee lay persons. It is likely that he alludeth to that saying of our Saviour, Mat 18. 20. VVhere two or three are gathered togither in my name, there am I in the middest of them. He is with them as with members of his Church, to guide them & heare them, to blesse thē & pre­serve thē. And that such little assemblies are not vnworthy the name of the Church, is plain by S^t. Pauls words to [...]hilemō, where he sēdeth greeting not only to Philemō, & Appiat & Archippus, but to Philem [...]. [...]. the Church in Philemons house, for so the Rhemists themselves trāslate it. In dangerous & Apostatating times, such petty aslem­blies do make vp the general, & they belōg vnto the same mysti­cal body, although they not only be not known to their persecu­tors, but many of thē have no acquaintāce with other. T [...] have the same head, the same faith, the same charity, the sam [...] [...]pirit, De Bap­tism, contra Donatist 6. 4 Idem Spi­ritus san­ctus ca di­mittit▪ (i. peccata) qui datus est omnibus Sanct [...]s &c. The same holy Ghost is given to all Saints, ioyned one to the other in love, whether they know each other corporally, or doe not know thē, saith Saint Austē ▪ The wāt thē of acquaintāce each with other may keepe the godly a [...]ūder, as wel as the rage of their persecutours, both which are to be soūd in the case of Elias. But directly to follow farther this argumēt of the Eclipse of the Churches glory, may it not be thought to be brought to a low ebbe, whē it is said of the second beast▪ that Apo. 13. 16. he causeth al, both smal & great, rich & poore, free & bond, that he should give thē a marke in their right hād or in their fore-heads, & that no mā might buy or sel, saue he that had the marke, or the name of the beast; or the nūber of his name. And what else is signified whē so many Cap. 17. 2. 15. are mētioned to have cōmerce with the whore of Baby­lō, yea all Cap 18. 3. Natiōs are reported to have drunken of the vvine of the wrath of her fornication? The anciēt Fathers were not ignorant, that such times there might be, whē they so oft cōpa [...]ed the Church to the Moone, as Saint Ambrose; Epistol. lib. 5. 31. The Moone it selfe, vvhereby in the Oracles of the Prophets the countenance of the Church is figured, when at the first rising againe shee is renewed into the ages of the month, shee is hidden by the darkenesse of the night, & by little & little fi [...]ing her hornes, or right ever against the Sun ending thē, doth shine with the light [Page 34] of cleere brightnes. Saint Austen in one In Psa. 10. place doth for diverse re­spects liken the Church vnto the Moone, and expoundeth the Moone to signifie it. In another Serm 134. de Tēpore. place he saith the Sun is Christ, the Moone the Church. VVhich as on the one side it doth inti­mate vnto vs, that the Moone hath no light but frō the Sunne, and the Church no light or bewty but from God: so on the other side it doth most lively put vs in mind, that as the Moone conti­nueth not at the same stay, but increaseth and decreaseth, wax­eth and waneth, is eclipsed by the interposition of the earth be­tweene her selfe & the Sun, & sometimes in the chāge cānot be seene, although it is never to bee doubted but there is a Moone; so the Church of Christ while this troublesome world doth last, is now glorious, then shadowed, in one age in bewty, in another age kept vnder, vnder some Princes in peace, vnder others in persecution, yea sometimes so pressed with the extremity of the mali [...]us, as that she is glad to remaine retired into secret places, & not [...] appeare opēly to the malignāt, albeit she never is nor cā be extinguished, but hath a continual being. Vnto which it may be added, that since faith doth much cōsist Heb. 11. 1. of things which are not seene, & we beleeve the holy Catholike Church, as an Article of our faith, it may follow, that it need not ever be eminently visible, and apparantly sensible vnto vs.

17 For the better exemplificatiō of this verity, it may be remē ­bred what havocke was made by the heathen Romane Empe­rours, & their Deputies, against the flock of Christ, in the ten first persecutions. That in the Roman dominion there was scant any to be heard of who professed Christianity, but hee was soone cut of by the sword, or otherwise. Did they in those times suffer any patent visibility of true profeslours, or when they once knewe where they were, did they not forthwith labour to extirpate thē? But in the daies of Cōstātius, whē the Arriā Heresy had once got­tē the head, where in the world did there appeare any sēsible cō ­gregatiō maintaining the Orthodoxe belief? Hieromes testimony of those daies was, Adversus Luci [...]ria­nos. The whole vvorld did sigh, & wondred that it selfe was Arrian. The words are but fewe, but they are to the purpose. So said Gregorius Presbiter, writing the life of Gregory Nazianzen, The secte of the Arriās had almost possessed al the coastes of the world, the [Page 35] power, & impiety of the Emperour ministring boldnes vnto it. The words of Constātius himselfe in Theodor. Hist. Eccles. lib. 2. 16. Theodoret, do give testimony vnto this; neither doth Liberius the Roman Bishop say ought to the cōtra­ry. The speeches of the Arrian Emperour, against him & Athana­sius are these. The whole vvorld doth thinke that this is well. The whole world hath givē sentēce of his impiety. Thou alone dost embrace the friēd­ship of that wicked man. And a litle before that: Doth so great a part of the world reside in thee Liberius, that thou alone dost dare to come in aide to that wicked mā, & disturb the peace of the vniversal world? Whervn­to Liberius did not take exceptiō, saying that the visible Church stood for him & Athanasius, but rather giveth another reason, to make good his being alone. Be it, that I am alone. Notwithstāding, for that, the cause of the faith is not the worse. For a great while agone, there were three only foūd, who would resist the Kings cōmandemēt. Heere the Church for any external shew was low brought: for if any body held it vp, it was Athanasius, who thē plaied least in sight & durst not appeare. For this Liberius who did for a time second him, did afterward shrinke. He went at first into banishmēt in defence of the truth, but after that, he was so sollicited & laid at by Hieron. in Catalog. script. Eccles. Fortuna­tianus, that he relēted & cōdescended to subscribe to the Arrian heresy, as Hierome witnesseth, who lived in that age, & was longe cōversant in Rome, & therfore could better report what was the issue of Liberius his cōstācy, thē some other who do relate it other­wise. What can be said for him, De Ponti­fice Roma­no 4. 9. Bellarmine hath; but yet enforced by the evident testimony of Athanasius, Hilary, & Hierome, he cō ­fesseth so much as I have heere set downe: but cover it he would, that he only consented to the externall acte of subscribing, but remained in hart Orthodoxe. Why should it then be a marveil [...], if in processe of time, Antichrist growing to greater strength, the Church should be in covert? It is no more then often times fell out vnder the Iewish Synagogue, and hath bin exemplified to have beene since among the Christians, & was so evidently fore­tolde before. In so much that by the example of the Apoc. 12. 6. woman, it cannot be the true Church, vnlesse it should be hidde in the wil­dernes: Which while our Popish teachers deny to agree to their Romish Church, but professe that it hath ever bin in sight, they thēselves do by a cōsequēt proclaime, that they are not the pure [Page 36] & vndefiled flying womā, but another painted harlot & strūpet. The true Church is for a time out of sight in the wildernes: but so, say they, was their Church never, and therefore, will they nill they, their Church is not the true Church.

18 And heere to the end that the slaūderous calūniatiō of our Adversaries, may the more bee manifested to all those, who will not wilfully close their eies against truth, I wil a little shewe the vanity, and yet maliciousne [...] of their obiectiō, whē they say, that there was Campian Ration. 10. Q [...]nti Evang pro fessores. never any of our faith before the daies of Luther, who in the yeere 1517. began for hi [...] part to display the kingdō of An­tichrist. Where I pray the Reader to cōsider, that the most pa [...]t of those whō I shal [...]e, are Popish writers, & no way partially. fle­cted toward vs. We say thē, that M. Luther was not the first bro­cher of those pointes, which he taught against Papistry, but as he did originally deduce thē frō the Scriptures, & out of the workes of the ancient Fathers, so he did derive thē also hereditarily frō o­ther, who immediatly before him had taught the same doctrine, & left it both in bookes & the harts of mē recōmēded vnto him. As principal parties herein, I name Iohn Hus & Hierome of Prage, & al such as were their scholers, in or about Bohemia: who before Luthers time oppugned the beliefe of the Church of Rome▪ and their professiō was not extinguished vntil his dates, howsoever it before had bin mainly assaulted: If we could learn this no where els, yet Fraūcis Guicciardine, an Italiā & Florētine Historiographer would informe vs of it, who Histor. l. 13. writing of the yeere 1520, saith plain­ly that Luther did set abroad the Heresies (as he tearmeth thē) of the Bohemiās, & he nameth there Hus & Hierome, as former di­vulgers of the same. And Petrus In vita Wenceslai. Messias a Spanyard, therin agreeth with him, who mētioning the opiniōs of Hus & the Bohemians, saith, they were the seed of those errors, which were afterward in Germany; alluding to the doctrin of Luther. There is no mā whose testimony in this behalfe may be of more worth, thē Iohannes Co­chleus: first because hee wrote a large story Historia Chochle [...] de Hassit [...]s. of purpose cōcerning the Hassites, and therefore by his long search, reading, & writing, in that argument, may bee presumed to knowe as much as any. Secondly because it may bee vvell imagined, that hee woulde faine nothing to doe Luther good, in as much as hee also wrot [...] [Page 37] a Histor, de actis & script. M. Lutheri volume purposely against that worthy servāt of God, intēding to rippe vp his whole life, frō yeere to yeere, & to censure all his workes. Yet this enimy of his, in the story of the Hussites, doth plētifully satisfie vs about the matter now in questiō. One Lib. [...]. where he telleth vs, that Hus did slay soules for an hūdred yeeres togither, nei­ther yet doth he cease to slay them by the second death. Within an hun­dred yeeres after him came M. Luther, according as the saide Iohn Hus did Io. Foxus in Histor. Ecclesiastic. prophecy not long before his death. And whē it is added, that yet hee doth not cease to slaye, it is manifest that his do­ctrine remained till the daies of Cochlues. In another Cochl. lib. 2. place hee relateth, that Luther did stirre vp seditions in Germany, by the bookes of the Hussites. Afterward hee calleth those, who were in Germany in his time, Ibidem. new [...] Hussites. And againe, Hus did so rente the vnitie of the Church, that vnto this day there remaineth a pitifull di­vision in Bohemia. He proceedeth in the same matter Lib. 3. elsewhere, saying, that the people of Germany are now by Luther partakers of the heresies of Hus and Hierome. One sorte of the followers of this Iohn Hus, did call themselves Thaborites, and these were they, who most dissented of all other from the doctrine of Rome. Of these hee speaketh thus: Lib. 8. Unto this day remaineth the secte of the Thabo­rites, in manie places of Bohemia and Moravia, vnder the [...]ame of Picards and VValdenses. Lastly the same Cochleus in the yeere 1534. doth vvish, that Lib. 12. hee may see the remainders or leavings of the Hussites to returne to the Church, and the Germanes to cast out all nevve sectes. VVhat can bee more evident, then that the do­ctrine of Iohn Hus vvas sensiblie and apparantly continued somewhere, even till the daies of Martin Luther? Vnto which may be added, that wheras Luther began to shew himselfe but in the yeere 1517. that very yeere was Centur. 16. lib. 1. 20. ended the Coūcel of Late­rane, held at Rome, & finished by Pope Leo the tēth. And there consultation was had of reforming the manners of the Church, and of recalling the Bohemians to the vnity of the Church of Rome.

19 And as these testimonies do cōvince, that the Christiā cōfessiō of Hus was not extinguished at the cōming of M. Luther, so may there be good reasō assigned why it did so lōg cōtinue, in as much as it was embraced by many, & earnestly maintaned evē vnto the death. Whē Hus begā first to preach, the people which vsed hādy [Page 38] Cochl. lib. 1. craftes, did with great desire heare his sermons, and did reade the Scriptures, being turned by him into their mother tongue; so that they could dispute with the Priests: which the very women were able to do; yea & one woman did make a booke. Not long after, three of the Ibidem. scholers of this preacher, did affirme that the Pope Iohan. [...]3. thē living was Antichrist, who had proclaimed a Croisado against a Christian King; that was Ladislaus King of Naples, then infesting the lands of the Church of Rome. These three persons were martyred for this speech, & tooke their death patiently. In small processe of time this doctrin so multiplied, that as Onuphri­us hath, In tabula Concil. an­te Platinae Histor. the Councell of Constance was called principally for two things; the one was against the Hussites, the other to take away the sehisme betweene the Popes. These of likely-hood grew great, that now a general Coūcel was called against thē. Neither did the people only agree in faith with Iohn Hus, but the Nobles of Bohe­mia stood apparātly for him, in so much that they sent two Io. Fox. in Concil. Constant. Historia. seve­rall & solēne supplicatiōs to the Coūcel at Cōstāce in his behalf. And whē these their requests were neglected, & Iohn Hus & Hie­rome of Prage (cōtrary to the Emperours safe cōduct given to the former of thē) were burnt, the Nobles Cochl l. 4. of Bohemia did mightily murmure against the fathers of the Coūcell, insomuch that Sigis­mund the Emperour to give them satisfaction on his behalfe, did write vnto thē, excusing himself touching the death of these two mē, & laying the fault vpō the Coūcel. But this gave not cōtent­mēt to the Bohemiās, now robbed of their principal pastour, but being moved at the perfidiousnes of those at Cōstance, they assē ­bled thēselves togither to the nūber of Ibidem. thirty thousād, & in the fields, vpō three hūdred tables erected for that purpose, they re­ceived the Eucharist in both kinds. Afterward they rushing into the Churches & Monasteries, did break down the Images there. It was not long after, but that vnder Iohannes Zisca, a noble & vi­ctorious warriour, these Hussites grew to bee of souldiours Lib. 5. & Petr Messi­as in Sigis­mundo. forty thousāds in one army, who got into their hāds the castle of Prage the chief city of Bohemia. Thē not long after did Pope Martin the 5. publish a Croisado against these whō he called Heretikes, pro­mising remissiō of their sins to such as could destroy them. Not­withstāding, these hated persōs did stil prosper, getting many vi­ctories [Page 39] vnder Procopius & other Captaines, but especially vnder Zisca, who was of that dexterity and felicity in his warres, as that Cochleus almost amased at his strange successe, saith, that Lib. 5. scāt any history of the Greekes or Hebrewes or Latins, doth mētiō such a Generall as Zisca was. He built a new city as a refuge for his mē, & called it. Thabor, wherof diverse embracing the doctrine of Hus were af­terward called Thaborites. A Lib. 6 secōd time time did Pope Martin proclaime a Croisado against thē, granting remissiō of sins to al, who did either fight or cōtribute mony against thē. Vpon which there were at one time forty Ibidem. thousād Germaine horsemē gathe­red to destroy thē: but such was the terror of their name, that vpō the approaching to thē, the horsemē of their own accord turned their backs & fled. The Popish Auctor saith that there was in this some secret iudgmēt of God, but he thinketh the cause of their ill suc­cesse was, that they had Bishops & Priests to their leaders & Cap taines. By this time came on the Coūcel of Basil, which as In tabula ante Pla­tinam. Onu­phrius saith was helde against the Hussites. This sheweth that they were many; which may also appeare, in that the Fathers at Basil, did by an indulgēce grāt to the Bohemiās this dispēsutiō, that cō ­trary to the Acte of the Sess. 13. Coūcel of Cōstāce, they might receive the Eucharist both in bread & wine. Genebrard, who was ever a true servant to the Pope, Genebrard lib. 4 Chro­nograph. confesseth so much: but addeth withall, that the cuppe was permitted vnto thē, because that alwaies be­fore had beene their custome so to communicates yet saith he, al was on that condition, that they should not finde fault with the contrarie vse, nor sever themselues from the Catholike Church in other rites and doctrines. Cochleus Lib. 7. nameth no such condition. Nay, to shew that simply and directly it was yeelded vnto them, he reporteth that the Legates of the Councell of Basile, did thus expound that which was concluded in the Bohemians behalfe, Lib. 8. The Councell doth permitte the Eucharist vnder both kindes, not tolerating it only as a thing evil, as to the Iewes was permitted a bill of divorce, but so, that by the auctority of Christ & his Church it is lawful, & profitable to the wor­thie receivers. Where, is it likely, that vnlesse the Bohemians now after Husses death had bin a strōg party, the Antichristian rabble would have yeelded to their importunitie, so directlie against the Canon of the nexte precedent Councel? Indeed the Ibidem. Em­perour [Page 40] Sigismund did afterward take a course to lessen their nū ­ber, when he sent many of them into Hungary against the Turks, that there they might either conquering winne to him victories, or being conquered themselues so be destroyed and perish. Hee who list to see more concerning the multitude of these Profes­sours, let him but looke on Hist. Bo­h [...] ▪ ca 35. & cap 50. Epist. 130. diverse places in the works of Ae­neas Sylvius, who was afterward Pope by the name of Pius 2. & he shall finde him reporting of his own knowledge (as travailing himselfe into Bohemia) that they were many, and very earnest also in their Religion.

20 If here it should bee replyed, that these perhaps were base people and of the vulgar, who thus followed Iohn Hus; but men of learning & knowledge, or persons of authority they had none to ioine with them; the course of the story will easily cleere the same, & shew that they had both learned Pastours, & great Ma­gistrats, who beleeved as they beleeved, & stood wholy with thē. Of what literature H [...] himselfe was, is evident by his works yet remaining, & by his personal withstanding the whole Coūcel of Constance. And what learning, what eloquence, what memory, all admirable, were in Hierome of Prage, as also with what singu­lar patience he tooke his death, is most significantly delivered in an Ad Leo­nardum [...]. Epistle of Poggius, who as an eie-witnes beheld him, & see­med to bee much affected with the singular partes of the man. Which noble testimony of that worthy Poggius is acknowled­ged by Lib 3. Cochleus. While these two lived, there were diverse Lib 2. priests, & Lib. 1. preachers, which agreed in their Doctrine, & in their Sermons reproved the Popish Cleargy for their Simony, keeping of Concub [...], avarice, riot, & secular-like pride. But after the death of those two famous servāts of God, their Lib. 4. followers got to them a Bishop, who was Suffragane to the Arch-bishop of Prage, and by him they put into holy Orders as many Clerkes as they would. Which the Arch-bishop tooke so il, that he suspended his Suffra­gane. But it was not long before that Lib. 5. Cōradus the Arch-bishop himselfe, became a Hussite also, as the Author calleth him. Vnder this Conradus as president of the assembly, these Hussites held a Coūcel at Prage in the year 1421. & there they compiled a Cō ­fessiō of their faith, This Cause did the said Archbishop, & many [Page 41] Barons of Bohemia afterward stifly mainetaine, and complained against the Emperor Sigismūd, for offring wrong to those of their Religion. Ibidem. Alexander also the Duke of Lituania did giue these Hushtes aide, which moved Pope Martin the 5, to write vnto him in this sort, Know that thou couldst not giue thy faith to heretikes which are the [...]ors of the holy faith, & that thou dost sin deadly of thou shalt keepe it, because there cannot bee any fellowship of a beleever with an insi­del. Thus did the vertuous Pope write. In Lib. 8. processe of time there grew a parley, betweene Sigismund the Emperour & the Bohe­mians. There among the Compacts this was one, that the Bishops should promote to holy Orders the Bohemians, even Hussites, which were of the Universitie of Prage. And they might well deserue to be re­puted Vniversity mē; for Cochleus himselfe witnesseth, that the Priests of the Thaborits were skilled in arg [...]g, & exercised in the ho­ly Scripture. Lib. 10. Rokizana one of thē did vndertake to dispute, with Capistranus a great & learned Papist. By that time that the yeare 1453. was come, Aeneas Sylvius doth complaine that the king­dome of Bohemia was wholy Lib. 11. governed by heretiks. Now all the No­bility, all the Cōminalty is subiect to an heretike. That was one George or Gyrziko, Governor of the kingdome of Bohemia vnder king Lad [...]slaus. But when Lad [...]slaus was dead, this Lib. 12. George himselfe was by the Nobles and the People chosen King of that country. And continuing the auncient profession of his Religion, about the yeare 1458, those of Uratislavia and Silesia doe refuse to o­bey him as being an heretike. Notwithstanding Pope Pius the 2. then intending warres against tho Turke, did by all meanes per­swade thē, that they should yeeld obedience to him. This George, saith the Authour, was borne and brought vp in the heresie of the Hus­sites. Now when Pope Pius did interpose himselfe, as a media­tour betweene this King and his Subiects, George did require of the Pope, that he might keepe the Compacts agreed vpon at Ba­sill, in behalfe of the Bohemians. And when Ibidem. Pius vvoulde not yeeld there-vnto, the king calleth togither the Estates of his kingdome, and protesteth that he would liue & die in those Com­pacts, & so did also the Nobles which were Hussits. This was done at Prage in the yeare 1462. This resolutenesse of his, caused that Pope to tolerate many things in him, but Paul. 2. who succeeded [Page 42] in that See of Rome, did excommunicate that king, and set vp a Croisado against him. Also he gaue to Matthias the king of Hun­gary, the title of king of Bohemia. Apud Pla­tin. Onuphrius in the life of Pau­lus 2, saith that the Pope did excommunicate him, & depriue him of his kingdome. Indeed for seaven years this George and Mathi­as did warre for it, and Mathias got from him Moravia and Sile­sia, and a good part of the kingdome of Bohemia. Vratislavia also and some other Provinces and citties, did put themselues in sub­iection of Mathias. Yet did not George deale hardly with the Papists which were at Prage, but in his greatest extremity, did vse both the advise and aide of many Nobles of the Popish be­leefe. At length after the continuance of warre for seaven years, Cochl. lib. 12. Mathias cōcludeth a peace with king George, both against the will of the Pope and the Emperour. And then this king was cō ­tent, to aske of the Pope an absolution from the excommunica­tion, some Princes being mediatours for him in that respect. But before the Agents could returne from Rome, the king died in the yeare of our Lord, 1471. By this story it is manifest, that both noble and learned of high account, were of that Christian be­leefe, which Iohn Hus taught, and vvere contented to adven­ture all things which they had in the world, for the maintenance of the same.

21 Perhaps here it may be asked; but how shall we know that Iohn Hus and his followers, did embrace that Religion which is now professed in England? We finde in Aeneas Sylvius some o­pinions of theirs, which peradventure will scant be reputed cur­rant among all English Protestantes. He rehearseth these fowre of theirs, Histor. Bo­hem. ca. 50. That they would receiue the Sacrament in both kindes; that Civill dominion is inhibited to Cleargy men: that preaching of the vvords was to bee permitted to all men: that publike crimes are in no sort to bee tolerated. I answere, truth it is that he there mentioneth onely those, & whither he relateth them truely or no, it may be doub­ted, as anon I shall shewe, by laying open the custome of the eni­mies of the Gospell, in mis-reporting their doctrine. But else­where he delivereth other opinions of theirs, as Epist. 130. against the Supre­macie of the Pope, against Purgatorie, against Invocation of Saints, and such like matters. If wee returne to Cochleus who was best ac­quainted [Page 43] with their matters, wee shall finde much more. As thus, Cochl. Hist. lib. 1. Hus translated all the bookes of Canonicall Scripture into the Bohemian tongue, & the people did most diligently read them. They would haue the holy Scripture, to bee the only iudge in matters of Controversie. They held that al Bishops and Priests, are the successours of the Apostles. That not the Pope but Christ is the head of the Church, neither are the Cardinals the body, but all that beleeue in Christ. That the Pope is not a mem­ber of the Church, but of the Devill and his Synagoge. That one Pope was a womā. Yea Hus did preach, that the Pope is an abomina­tion, and Antichrist. Also Lib. 2. he called the Generall Councel at Cō ­stance, the Synagoge of Sathan. Another of his Articles was, Lib. 3. The Pope is the beast in the Apocalyps. His scholers after his death, broke downe the Lib. 4. Images in Churches and Monasteries. Yea Zisca did cast downe all the Lib. 5. Churches, which were dedicated to the Vir­gin Mary, or to any Saint, as if it were lawfull to build a Church, onely to almighty God. In his time the Professours began to be distinguished into two companies. The one of them did not so much dissent from the Pope, as the other. Those which in fewer matters differed from the Bishop of Rome, retained stil the name of Hussites; they which disagreed in more, were called Thabo­rites, of Thabor the Citty which Zisca built for them. And these were the greater number and the stronger. There is in Cochle­us, a Professio fidei anti­quae, &c. Confession of faith by one Iohannes de Pr [...]bram a Bohemi­an, who was but a Hussite and not well affected to the Thabo­rites, because he accounted them as a kinde of Precisians or Pu­ritanes, in comparison of himselfe. Yet this more milde man doth wishe and begge of God, to see a reformation of the Church, that there might be redressed, Artic. 57. Simonyes through all the worlde most de­testable, most wicked setting to sale of all Sacramentes, most insatiable avarice, most impudent fornications, most putrified vncleannesses, rot­tennesses most abominable, Co [...]ubines-keeping most polluted, manners most dissolute, most corrupt gestures & behaviours, harlotry every where too too much multiplyed in the Cleargy, wherewith alas the whole earth lyeth corruptly filthy. Also the Lucifer-like pride of the Cleargie, vvhich is exalted above God, their dainety and dayly banquets, their aboundant riches and rich aboundance, their disquietnesse most litigions, [Page 44] being the cheefe roote of the quarrels of the world, their curiosity most vai [...], their most vnseemely pompe of apparell, their conversation most se­cular-like, their most open transgression of all the commaundements of God, their most remisse care of soules, their most negligent regard of the word of God. This he saith for himselfe: but concerning the Thabo­rites who indeede came neerer to the purity of the Gospell, hee witnesseth of them, that they held, Articul. 5 [...]. That materiall bread doth re­ [...]ine in the Sacramēt [...] that the Saints now triumphant are not to be cal­led vpon: that there is no Purgatory: that no suffrages, or praiers, are to be made for the dead [...]: Also they allow not of the holy da [...]es almost of al the Saints, nor of the Eves or Uig [...]s that go [...] before them; Nor the consecra­tions of visible thinges, as salt, oyle, holy-water, belles and such like. They have a s [...]bismaticall celebration of their Masses, that is, a severall sort of Church-service, and refuse the most celebrsou [...] service of the Churc [...], and th [...] r [...]es and administrations of almost all the Sacraments. Let our Papists now speake whether they & wee do not agree in the same doctrine altogither. For I doubt not but they, who had received so much grace from God, as to see all these things, were also partakers of farther knovvledge in the mysteries of Salvati­on.

22 VVhile I have spoken thus largely concerning these good Christians in Bohemia, let not any man imagine that Christes faithfull flocke was restrained within the compasse of that coun­trey, so that godly men were else no-where to bee found. For cer­taine it is that betweene the time of Iohn Hus, who was burnt in the yeere 1415. & the first standing vp of Martin An. 1517. Luther, were very many other, who in that darkenes did see what belonged to the light of the Gospell. Among these may be reckoned, as verie memorable, the Waldēses, who about the yeere 1508. do make Responsio ad Doctorē Augustinū. an answere in de [...]ce of thēselues, & therin as they testifie that they thē had Priests of their own, so they speake against Purgatory, and most op [...]ly against Trāsubstātiatiō. The same, touching Trāsubstā ­tiatiō, they do in a Walden­sium Con­fessio in fasciculo [...]erum ex­petend. & [...]ugiend. Cōfessiō of theirs, where also they impugne A­doration of the Eucharist. There also they name the Prelates vnsa­v [...]ry salt, & avouch that the execrable naughtines which was in thē, by the instinct of the Devil, did drive thē away frō the Sea of Rome. For the Papists in their Sermon [...] did cal one another schismatikes. [Page 45] heretikes, sacrilegious, false Prophets, ravening wolves, the beast and whore in the Revelation. Of Sleidan. Lib. 16. these there were many in one part of Fraunce, who time out of minde had refused to beare the yoke of the Pope, and therefore in the daies of Frauncis the first, king of Fraunce, by a bloudy decree of that king, but by the executi­on of one Minerius a most cruell person, Merin [...]ol and Cabriers with some other villages about them, were sacked and destroy­ed, men, women and children being slaine. Yea diverse of them being stripped starke naked first, and then murthered, and fortie poore women being burned in a barne. I may adde vnto these, many worthy men heere and there dispersed, where-of all cryed out against the Church of Rome, and desired a Reformation, and many of them apprehēded, and delivered to other the true meane [...] of Iustification, which is the nearest point of Salvation. The Lucas O [...]i­and. l. [...]. c. 8. Authour of the sixteenth Centurie nameth about the yeare one thousand fiue hundred and somewhat after, (but yet before Luther) Baptista M [...]ntuanus; and Franciscus P [...]cus, Earle of Mi­ra [...]dula, both which much inveighed against the Cleargy, and their whole practise. Also one Doctour K [...]serspergius, another called Iohannes H [...]lten, a thirde named Doctour Andreas Pro­les, and Sava [...]orola, all groaning vnder the burthen of those times. The Oration of Oratio ad Leonem. 10 Picus in the Councell of Laterane is extant: where besides his most bitter taxing of the filthy beha­viour of the Cleargy, he vseth these words. Pietie is almost su [...]ke into superstition. How Mantu [...] doth every where pay the Ro­manists, may appeare to those who read his works. But one place of him I will Calamit [...] cum. 3. name.

Some of them, I English thus.

The opinions of Savanarola against Popery are many, & for them (howsoever it be otherwise [...]uicciard. Lib. 3. coloured) he was burnt. In the matter of free Iustification he is In psa. 51. cleere. And the same is writ­ten also of Catalog. test verit. lib. 19. Trit [...]ius another learned man, who lived at that time. How in England Christ had in al these times professours of the truth, I shall haue occasion to shew anon, when I come to speake of Iohn Wiclef.

23 In the meane while I shall not do amisse, to mention some other, who were betweene the daies of Iohn Hus and Martin Luther. A special oppugner of the Papacy was that learned Lau­rentius Valla, a Patritius of Rome, and Canon of Saint Iohn of Laterane there. He wrote a treatise of purpose against the Contra [...] donationē. forged Donation of Constantine. He pronounceth of his owne experience that the Pope himselfe doth make warre against peaceable people, & sow­eth discorde betweene Citties and Princes. The Pope doth both thirst af­ter other mens riches, and swalloweth vp his owne. Hee maketh gaine of not onely the Common-wealth, but the state Ecclesiasticall and the holie Ghost. The later Popes doe seeme to labour this, that looke how much the auncient Popes were wise and holy, so much they will bee wicked & foolish. He lived about the yeare 1420. & for the freenesse of his speech and penne, was by the Pope driven into exile. About the same time lived Arch-deacon Nicolaus de [...], who rebuked De Anna­tis non sol▪ vendis. many things in the Ecclesiasticall state, and spake excellently in the matter of Generall Councels, and their circumstances, as Ration. 9. hereafter may be declared. Petrus de Aliaco Cardinall of Cam­bray, gaue a tract to the Councel of Constance, touching the De Refor­matione Eccl [...]. re­formation [Page 47] of the Church. There doth he reprooue many notable abuses of the Romanists, and giveth advice how to redresse thē. Cap. 3. There should not be multiplyed, saith he, such variety of Images and pictures in the Churches. There should not be so many holy-daies. There should not so many new Saints be Canonized. Apocryphall writings should not be read in the Churches on holy-daies. Cap. 4. Such [...]umerositie and variety of Religious persons is not expediēt. There are so many orders of begging Friers, that their state is burdensome to men, hurtfull to hospitals and to the poore. Few doe now studie 'Divinity for the abuse of the Church of Rome, which hath despised Divines. All now turne to the Lawe and to Artes of gaine. He saith, that it was then a proverbe, The Church is come to that estate, that it is not worthy to be ruled but by Reprobats. He hath very much more, and in the end concludeth, that Cap. 6. As there were seaven thousand, who had not bowed to Baal, so it is to he hoped, that there be some which desire the reformation of the Church. Imagin whi­ther this Cardinall, if he had founde some company to haue ioy­ned with him, would not haue said much more. About that time lived Leonardus Aretinus, whose little booke In hypo­critas libel­lus. Against Hypocrites, is worth the reading. So is the Oratio ad cleium Co­loniensem. Oration of Antonius Cornelius Lyn­nichanus, laying open the lewde lubricity of Priests in his daies. So doth he detect many abuses and errours, who wrote the Decē gra­vamina Ger maniae. Tenne Grievances of Germany: but those who compiled the hundred Grie­vances of the Germaine Nation, doe discover many more. Finally he who list to see farther, that God even in those dead daies, had diverse servants, who by more then a glimce did see the truth, & desired yet more plentifully to be instructed in Religion, let him read the Lib. 19. Catalogus testium veritatis lately set out, and there hee shall finde divers whom I haue not named.

24 By this time I trust it is manifest, how false a slaunder that of the Papists is, that before the daies of Martin Luther there was never any man of our Religiō. Till the time of the Councel of Constance, this case is cleared. And beyond that, it is as easie to shew, that Iohn Hus and Hierome of Prage, had their immedi­ate antecessours in witnessing the faith of Christ. For they vvere instructed and much helped, by the bookes of Iohn VViclef an English man, and therefore saith Platina, as In Ioh. 24. sectatours of Wiclef, they were condemned in the Councell of Constance. Aeneas [Page 48] Sylvius sheweth the means how those Bohemians came to know the doctrine of Wiclef; he saith thus: Histo Bo­hem ca. 35. He who first raised vp the o­pinions of the Hussites, had them from Oxford, carying thence into Bohe­mia Wiclefs bookes De Realibus Vniversalibus. Cochleus who by his good will would bee taken for a vehement defender of Popery, giveth yet a larger testimony. For he saith Histor. de Hussitis, li. 1. that as a Bohemian brought first into Bohemia Wiclef▪ booke De Realibus Vniver­salibus, so there was afterward one P [...]ter Paine a scholer of Wic­lefs, who after the death of his Maister, came also into Bohemia, and brought with him Wiclefs bookes, which were in quantitie as great at Saint Austens workes. Ibidem. Many of these bookes did Hus af­terward translate into their mother tongue. In plaine tearmes af­ter this, the Authour delivereth it, that Lib. 2. the Hussites and Thabo­rites were branches of Wiclef. And in the same booke, Hus did com­mit spirituall fornication with many strangers, with the Wiclefists, the Dulcinists, &c. And in the next he avoucheth, that Lib. 3. Hus and Hie­rome tooke their heresies from Wiclef. And once againe he tearmeth the Protestant Germanes Lib. 6. new Wiclefists. What an opinion of this man Iohn Hus had, may be fully seene by that wish of his, wher­in hee praied Lib. 2. that hee might there bee, where the soule of Wiclef was. Now what VViclef did teach, may be easily gathered, if by no­thing else, yet by the deadly hatred which the Romanists did ca­ry toward him. The Session. 8. Councell of Constance did define him to be an Heretike, long after his death, and commaunded that his bones should be taken vp and burnt. Also Cochl. li. 1. Pope Iohn the 23. in a Generall Councel at Rome, did before that time condemne him for an heretike, which the Hussites did but laugh at. But no man had a harder conceipt of him then Cochleus, who sticketh not to affirme that Lib. 2. he thinketh the torments of Wiclef are greater in hell, then those of Iudas or Nero. If God Almighty had no better o­pinion of him, the man were in an ill case. But the best is, this cho­lerike Criticke is not the Iudge of all the world. He was angry be [...]ke in behalfe of Transubstantiation, concerning which he ci­teth this Article of Wiclef, There was never a greater heresie, then that which putteth the Accident without a Subiect in the Eucharist. But he might haue named more pointes, wherein that holy man did differ from the Church of Rome. The Session. 8. Councell of Con­stance [Page 49] picketh out fiue and forty Articles of his Positions, which the learned Reader may finde there. Yet doubtlesse many of them are fasly reported, which is a matter common with enimies of the truth, to perver [...], and mis-construe, that so they may more freely defame. There was one Respo. ad [...]8 artic. Wiclef. In [...]ase rer ex▪ petend. [...] Wideford, who tooke on him to answere eighteene Articles, said to be Wiclefs, whence a mā may gather some of his doctrine. But that al things there laid against him were not true, may wel be obserued out of the same Answere, declaring that he had many things cōcerning Wiclef, but only by In fine Ar­ticul. 10. fame & report; And Virgil. Aeneid 4. that is not the most certaine Relater. What positiōs indeed he held, may be seene in M^r. Foxe reporting his life & actions; as also in the Lib. 18. Catalogus Testium ve­ritatis. And those who be not learned, may esteeme of them, by the doctrine of Iohn Hus before rehearsed, who by the testimo­ny of the Papists themselues, as I haue shewed, maintained the opinions of Wiclef.

25 Now that this worthy champiō, & preacher of the Gospell of Iesus Christ, went not alone, but had many English men and women, who in his life time, & after his death, beleeved as he be­leeved, & professed as hee professed, is in the next place to bee shewed. Among the chiefe of his fautours were Iohn of Gaunt, (as Apolog. Hie [...]arch. ca 1. Parsons the Iesuit confesseth) and Lord Henry Percy, the one of them Duke of Lancaster, the other Marshall of Englande. Ma­ster Foxe citeth out of a Ex Regist G. Court­ney. Register of the Arch-bishoppe of Can­terbury, a Mandate mentioning that the Conclusions of Wi­clef, were preached in diverse and sundrie places of the Arch-bi­shoppes Province, generally, commonly, and publikely. The same also is manifested by a letter of that Arch-bishoppe to the Bishop of London; and in a Monition directed to Ad Can­cellar. Ox. Oxford, where it is said that certaine Conclusions hereticall and erroneous, were generallie & commonly preached and published, in diverse places of the Province of Canterbury. There be extant also Ad [...] Cant. & Cancel. Oxon. letters of King Richarde the seconde, directly signifying so much. But there is nothing vvhich maye more amply testifie the spreading of his doctrine, then an Acte of Parliamente in the beginning almost of that younge Kinges dayes, vvhere it is related, that there vvere Anno 5. Rich 2. ca. 5 diverse preaching dayelie, not onelye in Churches and [Page 50] Church-yardes, but also in markets, f [...]res, and other open places, where a great congregation of people is, [...]verse sermons containing Heresies and [...]etorious errours. This putteth mee in minde of a written booke which once In manu M^r. Gu [...]el. Wirley. I sawe, being a Chronicle compiled by a Monke of Leicester Abbay, who writing of the time of the saide K. repor­teth at large, that the people in faires & markets, & riding by the way, & almost every where, would talke of the Scripture, and re­prove the customes of that time, as also the Priests, to the excee­ding greate trouble and offence of the Clergy. This they might the rather doe out of the word of God, because the Scriptures were then translated into English, as may bee seene by diverse copies vvritten and remayning to this day, supposed to bee so turned by UUiclf. And it is very probable, that in Leicester­shire there were many of those, of vvhome the Mon [...]e Leicestren­sis spake, since at Lu [...]erworth a towne in th [...]t Coun [...]e, Iohn UUicl [...]f vvas beneficed. But the greatest parte of this learned mans abode, was at the first in the Vniversitie of Oxford, vvhere hee was both a Doctor and Reader of Divinity, and therefore is to bee conceived, to have many learned men partaking with him in his opinions. In fine. R. Edward 3. Maister Foxe saith (out of the Chronicle of Saint Albane [...]) that hee had a benefice in Oxford, of vvhich he was deprived by Simon [...] Arch-bishop of Canterbury. It may be this was nothing else but the Maister-ship, or Chiefe Go­vernours place in Ba [...]oll College, vvhich I am perswaded that he had, since there are yet two auncient writings in the Treasurie of that In Archi­vis Colleg. Ba [...]ol. College, (vvhich I have seene) who vvere made in the name of Iohn Vviclif Maister of that house, and that in the daies of King Richard the second. But while hee lived, hee had so ma­nie favourers in that Vniversitie, as that Vide Io. Fox in vita Wiclif. Maister Robert [...] Uice-chancellour, and the two Proctors tooke part with him, As also Nicolas Herford, Philip [...] and Iohn Ash [...]on, preachers and Bachelers of Divinity, and grewe into great question for his cause, where R [...]ington, in the ende being Doctor, did slippe from him. Yea so farre was his doctrine there spread, that Pope Annot. R. Richard [...]. [...]. Gre­go [...]ie the eleventh in the yeere 1 [...]78. did direct his Bull to the Vniversitie of Oxford, against the doctrine and Articles of that learned man, even Rome it selfe ringing of his opinions in [Page 51] that Vniversitie. Neither did his followers dye, vvhen hee himselfe died, but longe Sub Re­ge Henrie. after that, Pope Gregorie the 12. did direct dovvne another Bull to Oxford, against VViclif, in vvhich hee vseth the same vvordes, vvhich his Predecessor had, that is to say, that VViclif did follovv [...] the doctrine of Mar­silius of Pa [...]a, and of Iohn of Gand [...]ne of vnvvorthie memorie, which speech is vvorth the marking to shevve, that this man also had his Predecessours. Lib. se­cund. in li­teris Reg. Henrie. 4. The copy of this later Bull is to bee seene in the booke which that vvorthy lover of Antiquities Maister Hare gave to our Vniversitie. VVhere also is to bee seene, in the Constitutions of a Provinciall Councel celebrated at Ox­ford, a sharpe Inquisition decreed by Thomas Arondell Arch-bishop of Canterbury against all even the heades of Colleges and Halles, and others suspected of Lo [...]ardy and VViclevisme. They might vvell suppose that the studentes of that place vvere enter­tainers of such doctrine, since aboute that An. 1406. Octobr. [...]. verie time, a testi­moniall In operi­bus Iohn Hus. vvas given in their Congregation house, vnder seale, in favour of Iohn VViclif, vvhere these vvoordes are, among other, GOD forbid that our Prelates should have condemned a man of such honesty for an Heretike &c. And yet in the Councell of Constance hee vvas condemned for such a one, fortie yeeres after that hee vvas deade and buried. But all vvoulde not serve, to extirpate his bookes or memorie out of our Vniver­sitie, but even in the daies of An. 1476. King Edvvard the fourth there vvere nevve letters directed to the Governours of that place, by the King himselfe, to make search for his bookes and to burne them. I have in my custodie a faire auncient Record of that Vniversitie, vvhich by meanes of a good friende I have gained backe to this place, And therein is a solemne letter, directed from the Convocation of Doctours and Maisters to the Kinge, testifying that according to their Soveraignes commaundement, they had vvith accurate diligence, sear­ched out the bookes and tractes of VViclif himselfe and of Regi­nald Pecocke, and had burnt them. So much adoe vvas it, and that in so longe a space, to suppresse the heade vvherevn­to VViclif [...] doctrine was growne, in the famous Vniversitie of Oxford.

[Page 52] 26 Howe else-where in this kingdome, his Positions were spredde, may bee easily collected out of Geffrey Chaucer, vvho dying about the yeere 1400. may rightly bee supposed to have lived vvhile Iohn UUictef lived. This Chaucer vvho wanted nei­ther write nor learning, did at In the Plow-mans tale. large paint out the pride, las­civious, vicious and intolerable behaviour of the Pope, Cardi­nals, and Clergy, even applying the name of Antichrist diverse times vnto the Romane Bishop, and saying that there vvere many in those daies of the speakers minde, yea finding faulte vvith their faith, as vvell as vvith their manners. The whole tale is well worthie the reading: but I will cite onely a few ver­ses.

This and a hundred times as much, hee expresseth in a sim­ple Plowmans person, as evidently inferring, that the husband­man and meanest countrie body of that time, by the reading or hearing of the word of God, could tell what was right and reli­gious, and what otherwise, yea and complaine of the blind­nesse, and impierie of the Romanistes in that Age. But if we would bee advertised, what even laye-men in those times could do let vs looke into the Declarations of VValter Bruite, who wa [...] in question for his opinions, before the Bishop of Hereford in the [Page 53] yeere 1393. and gave vp a little booke, containing those things which he maintained. The true Ex Regi­stro Episco­pi Here­ford. copy of that treatise is yet ex­tant, and deserveth to bee reade. There wee may finde these and the like positions; That breade remaineth in the Sacramente after Consecration: that the Pope is Antichrist: that nothing is to be beleeved but what may be confirmed out of the Scriptures: that the Pope is the Idol of desolation sitting in the Temple of God: that Antichrist is not to come of the Tribe of Dan: neither onely to raigne three yeeres [...] a halfe: that the City, Apoc. 17. is Rome: that our Iustification is freelie by faith alone: that the doctrine of the Pope differeth from that of Christ that miracles are no assuraunce of truth that men are not rashly to bee reputed Saints: that the Pope hath not power beyond other Bishops: neither is the heade of the Church: that Papistes mistake the keyes of binding and loosing: that Infantes dyeing before Baptisme are not therefore dam­ned: that Auricular confession is not prescribed in the Scripture: that the Canon Law is ill grounded: that the Pope deceiveth men in his Pardons: that Absolution is to bee sought at the hands of God onely: that the Priests vse vaine praiers in the Masse: that Exorcismes & holy-water are vnlawfull: that Priests doe sinne vvho bargaine to sing for the soules of men departed: that Religious men and vvomen are the devourers of widowes houses: that selling of Orders and Dirges is naught: that the Pope is the beast vvith the tvvo hornes like the Lambe, vvhile hee cha­lengeth the double svvorde: that hee seeketh to bee vvorshipped as God: that Dux Cleri doth make vp the number 666: that vvorshipping of Images is Idolatrie: that temporall goods may bee taken from the Clergy offending. There was a great Papist one William Wideford whome before I mentioned, who giveth testimony to this Trea­tile of Brute, whome hee calleth Waltherus Britta in Latin: and vvriting against Contra 18 articul. Wiolif. VViclif, maketh In articulo 11. & 12. tvvise mention of a booke of his ovvne, sent to the Bishoppe of Hereford (D [...]num Ersordense [...] he calleth him) in confutation of the booke of VVal­ter Britte.

27 While I wr [...]e these thinges, I cannot but thinke vpon the audacious absurdnesse of my ignorant Doctour, who blusheth not to vtter, that is is Ration. 1. most manifest, that all in England vvere Papistes vvithout exception, from the first Christening thereof, vntill this age of King Henry the eight. Hee is doubtlesse an honest [Page 54] man, and worthy to be trusted on his word. It is not only mani­fest, but most manifest, not that the greatest part, but all, yea & be­ [...] shal not be scanted, all w [...]ut [...]ption were [...]apistes &c. Were Iohn Wiclif [...] bones burnt because he was a Papist? & were the Bul [...] of the Pope against him for that cause? and were the Archbishop Arondel [...] Cost [...] against his followers so severe, because they were Papists. The man is h [...] to be pittied for his simplicity. A man may know by the lawes, Proclamatiōs, letters & proceedings by the State against some as against Heretickes, As also by the Records of Bishops yet extant, & by the manifold executions & burnings afterward, that even in that deepe time of ignorance, England did give most noble testimony of Christs truth against Popery, evē so farre as to the fiery trial. If the Chri­stian Reader peruse the Ecclesiastical History of M^r. Foxe, he shal find how [...] An. 1400. sub K. Hen­rie. 4. before the Co [...], William Sa [...] a Priest was burnt, & after him Iohn Ba [...]y, and that because they were Wiclevists o [...] L [...] (as they the [...]ed them) and not because they were Pa­pists. There are the reasons also and asseveratiōs of P [...]y and Thorpe against Popery, with diverse other matters. And is it [...]ot to bee thought that the Heretikes increased, when a [...]ynode [...] Sub Reg. Henric. 5. was assembled in S [...]. P [...] Church at London, into the vvhich [...]me [...] Inquisito [...], who in a former Synode were ap­pointed, to [...] and [...] the vv [...]gs of VV [...], vvherein they found▪ 24 [...]. Conclusions, an vvhich they supposed to bee I [...] [...] in the [...] [...]eere of K. Henry the [...] d [...] [...] ward the L. [...] was [...]ge [...], as [...] had beene a [...]de of Trai­ [...], but hee was then [...] [...]ed H [...]. So was o [...] [...] for his [...] consumed to [...]. Not long [...] [...] [...], be­side [...] [...] [...] Sub [...] Religion, [...] and VV [...] tvvo [...] and [...] of [...]followed af­terward [...] Neither [...]d [...]he [...] and of King [...] the [...] escape [...] of sun­drie [...]CHRIST [...] [...] sake [...] for [...] profession of the [...]hy the particular stories [Page 55] of vvhome, may b [...] [...]ounde in the Authour abou [...] [...] The Clergy of these times did beare much sway with their Prin­ces, and lefte no meanes v [...]ught, no stone vn [...]ned, to keepe vp the dignitie and preheminence of their Romish Hie­rarchy, and the superstitions Idolatry vvhich then vvas in vse. Novve [...]in the raignes of all these Princes, so many were slaugh­tered for the testimonie of a good conscience, hovve manie weake brethren vvere there, vvho did not make open professi­on of their faith, and hovve many did there lie hid, diverse of them in probabilitie having confederates, and some of them be­ing Priestes, and therefore not vnlikely to have learning, both to confirme themselves in the truth, and such other as hearde them. Thus have I both in England and else-vvhere brought vp the doctrine of the Gospell, vntill the time of Iohn VViclef, who flourished in the yeere, 1371.

28 Heere it may please the Reader to remember, that the iudgment (before cited) of [...]vo Gregor. 11. & Gregor. 12. Popes vvas that VViclef taught the doctrine of Marsilius of Padua, and of Iohn of [...]. Of the later of these, there yet appeareth no monument vvritten: But hee ioyned in Catalog. test. verle. lib. 18. opinion vvith the former. But as for Marsilius Patavinus, our Adversties cannot but acknovv­ledge him to bee a verie learned man, after the measure of the age vvherein hee lived, vvhich vvas in the yeere 1324. Hee vvrote a Defensor pacis. booke against the vsurped power of the Bishope of Rome: vvhich argument hee entred into, in behalfe of the Emperour Levvis of Bav [...]e, vvho vvas mightily laide at by three Popes successiuelie. There the Authour avovveth as right and iust, the supreme authoritie of the Emperour, display­ing the iniquitie of the Popes vsurpation over Christian Princes and Generall Councels. The booke is vvoorth the reading, to see vvhether all in times past, did allowe of the Popes doctrine and proceedinges or not. His opinions are these▪ That the Pope is not superiour to other Bishoppes, and much l [...] the Empe­rour and civill Magistra [...]. That thing as are to bee decided by the [...]ure. Th [...] [...] men of the lai [...] [...] in Councels. That the Clergy and Pope himselfe are to bee subiect to Magistrates. That the Church is the [...] companie of the faithfull. That CHRIST [Page 56] is, [...] of the Church, and appointed [...] to bee [...] Ui [...]: That Priestes may bee [...]ryed. That Saint Peter was [...] at Rome. That the Popish Synagoge [...] a d [...] of theeves. That the doctrine of the P [...] not to bee follovved, because it leadeth to e­verlasting destruct [...]. In the time of this Marsilius, lived that noble Poet Danie, vvho vvrote also a booke against the Pope,Petrus Messias in Ludovico.C [...] the Monarchie of the Emperour▪ but for taking part vvith Lewes of Bav [...]ere, hee vvas condemned for an heretike, and his booke [...]hereticall. Then also vvroteCatal. test. verit. lib. 18.Occam direct­ly to the same purpose: but for his labour therein, and his large reproofe of the Pap [...]cie in other pointes, hee was excommuni­cated by the romane Bishop, vvhich he so much contemned, that hee not vnwillingly dyed vnder that sentence. Aboute that time vvere here and there dispersed sundry godly men, who sawe more then the common sorte touching Religion. AsIbid. ex Hen. de Er­ford.Hay­ [...] a Minorite, vvho frequently saide in his Sermons, that the Church of Rome vvat the vvhere of Babylon, and that the Pope and Cardinals vvere meere A [...]: vvhich propositions were helde somevvhat before also, byIbidem.Ger [...] and Dulcinus, tvvo learned men. This Du [...] may be thought to haue had ma­ny followers, sinceHist. Hus­sit. lib. 2.Cochleus coulde say, that Iohn Hus commit­ted spirituall fornication with the W [...]sts, and with the Dul [...]nists. The same opinions concerning the Pope and Rome, did that rare man▪Epist. 20. & in Poesi Italica.Franciscus Petrarche seeme fully to embrace, as may appeare to any who will reade his vvorkes, hovvsoever Cardi­nallIn Appēd. ad lib. de Romano Poutif. c. 20Ballarmine labour to make the worlde beleeve otherwise, beeing desirous to haue vs thinke [...], that Petrarch spake not a­gainst the Pope, but some abuses in the Courte of Rome. And to make it plaine that it vvas not a slight conceipt, or onely in a fewe, that the Pope vvas [...], and Rome vvas Babylon, A­pocal. 17. God stirred vp yet more in that age, vvho proclai­med the same in [...]. AsGenebr. Chronogr. l. 4. An 13 [...]7 [...] B [...] or [...] ­sis, vvho vvas a Mino [...], and for teaching so, vvas digged vp after that hee vvas deed, and his body by the sentence of Pope Clement the si [...] vvas burnt. A fevv yeares after him didCatal. te [...] verit. lib. 18 [...] [...]es de R [...]ssa, a Monke, teach the same doctrine, vvhich as every man may gesse doth [...] the Papacy in every respect. [Page 57] Academ. [...]. Christ. Clas. 15. Iohannes G [...] came not so fat: but saw in his age many horrible abuses of the Church of Rome, and in his writings spake liberal­ly of it. And it did bite deepe, when De auferi­bilitate Pa­pae ab Ec­clesia. hee disputed that the Pope mighte bee taken safely away from the Church, and yet [...]o daunger follovve of it. But let vs novve goe a little high­er.

29. I mentioned before how Cochleus saith, that Iohn Hus did take his doctrine from the Wiclevists and the Dulcinists. Heare, I pray you, what he saith. Hist. lib. 2. H [...] did commit spirituall fornication with many aliens, with the Wiclevists, the Dulcinists, with the Leonists, the Wal [...]ses, the Al [...]ingenses, and other of that sorte, enimies of the Church of Rome. These Leonists or poore men of Lyons, and VVal­denses, and Albingenses vvere the same men, but diversly vpon diverse occasions tearmed by the Romane Synagoge which ha­ted them. Their opinions then did Hus mainetaine. Aeneas Sylvius doth also directly witnesse the same, affirming that the Hist Bo­hem. ca. 35. Hussites did embrace the opinions of the VValdenses. There you may see, that their doctrine vvas against the Primacy of the Pope, Purgatorie and such like matters. Chron. lib. 4. Genebrarde, vvho sayeth that these VValdenses beganne Anno 1170, or as some other vvill 1218. rehearseth out of Sylvius these opinions of theirs, that praiers for the deade and Purgatorie-fire are an invention of the Priestes covetousnesse, that holy Images are to be defaced, that Con­firmation and extreame Vnction are no Sacramentes, that auricular Confession is a trifling thing. Hee vvho list, may see a greate many more of their Catal. test. verit. li. [...]. positions, agreeing with the doctrine which vve teach, vvhich may vvell also bee gathered from the Iesuites themselues. For that is the cause that In prefat. generall. Cōtrovers. Bellarmine ioineth these togither as heretikes, the Ber [...]garians, the Petrobrusiant, the VValdenses, the Albingenses, the UUiclevistes, the Hussites, the Lutherans, &c. And Lib. 1. c. 19. Lewes Richeome, another of that Society, in his defence of the Masse against the Lorde Plessis, saieth that the Ministers for the confirming of their figuratiue sence in This is my bodie, haue none for their Doctours, for their Auncients, for their Fathers, but Berengarius, [...]uinglius, Calvin, [...], VViclef, the Albingenses, the UUaldenses. These Walden­ses then and Albingenses are ours, by the confession of our [Page 58] Adversaries. And of these, long agone there were no smal com­pany. For as Du Hist. li. 12. Haillan in the life of Philip the 3. King of Fraunce speaketh, being driven from Lyons in Fraunce, they withdrew themselues into Lombardy, where they so multiplied, that their doctrine began to spread through Italy, and came as farre as Sicely. As the same Authour Lib. 9. writeth, Philippus Augustus came to his kingdome, Anno 1180. which is nowe more then foure hundred yeares since. And in his time it was, that the Al­bingenses did so increase in Fraunce, that the Pope and Princes adioyning were afraide of their number. He who readeth the sto­ry of them shall see, that they are reported to haue held many grosse, wicked and absurde opinions mingled with their true do­ctrine. But Du. Haillan the best and most iudicious Chronicler of Fraunce, and no partiall witnesse in our behalfe (since his pro­fession touching religion was such, that he was imployed to write that story, by K. Henrie the thirde) had not so little wit, but that he perceived those imputations to be laid on them in odium, and of purpose to procure their defamation. See how wisely he spea­keth truth and his conscience, and yet so coucheth it, that his fe­lows might not iustly be offended at his words. Lib. 10. Although saith he, these Albingenses had evill opinions, yet so it is that these did not stir vp the [...] of the Pope and of great Princes against them so much, as their libertie of speech did, vvherewith they vsed to blame the vices [...] dissolutenesse of the said Princes and of the Cleargy, yea to taxe the vices and actions of the Popes. This was the principall point which brought them into vniversall hatred, and which charged them with more evill o­pinions then they had. Now first that they were not men infamous, either for their vile opinions or filthy conversation, and second­ly that they were not onely base and poore people, it is evident by this, that so many noble and worthy men tooke parte with them, yea to the adventuring of their liues, in their company and for then behalfe, as the Ibidem. Counties or Earles of Tholouse, of Comin­ges, of Bigerre, of Car [...], yea the King of Arragon. And when Raimund this Earle of Tholouse was for his beleefe excommuni­cated by the Pope, and a Croisado was proclaimed against him, and the Albingenses, as if they had beene Saracens or Infidels, not onely the Counties of Foix & Cominges came with all their [Page 59] strength to assist Raimund, but Alphonsus the king of Arragon came in his owne person to his succour, as beeing his kins-man and his friend. And when all these were mett togither, the report is saith Du Haillan, that the armie of these heretikes, did consist of about one hundred thousand fighting men. These things being thus disco­vered by men of your owne part, be ashamed you Papistes and blush, to spread among your simple and credulous followers, that never men did as we do, nor beleeved as we beleeue, before Lu­thers time, and al Christendome formerly liked of the Papistical doctrine and proceedings. But because you shall yet heare one testimony farther, touching these Albingenses and Waldenses, how honest and truely religious they were, I will cite what one Reinerius, a man who did hate them and was as it is supposed, an Inquisit or against them, did report concerning them, now three hundred yeares agone, or there about. Thus then among much other matter he saith of them, Catal test. verit. lib. 15. There were many sects of heretikes long agone, among all which sects that are or were, there is not one more pernicious to the Church of God, then that of the Poore men of Lyons, for three causes. First because it is of longer continuance. Some say that it hath endured from the time of Sylvester. Other say, that from the time of the Apostles. The second is because it is more generall. For there is al­most no land in which this sect doth not creepe. The thirde, that whereas all other by the imm [...]ity of their Blasphemies against God, do make men abhorte them, this of the Lyonists having a great shew of godlinesse, be­cause they doe liue iustly before men, and do beleeue all things well of God, and all the Articles which are contained in the Creede; only the Church of Rome they doe blaspheame and hate: which the multitude is easie to beleeue, and as Sampsoni Foxes had their faces severall waies, but their tayles tyed one to the other, so heretikes are diverse in sects among them­selves, but in the impugning of the Church they are vnited. There can hardly be found a more honorable testimony, out of the mouth or penne of a bitter and bloudy adversary, as he was who wrote this, and much more, concerning those good servountes of God.

30 VVe shall not neede to ascende any higher, since hee gi­veth witnesse of the antiquity of their profession long before his [...]lme. VVhich otherwise to make plaine is as easie, as to deliver [Page 60] that which hitherto I have spoken. And it is not to bee concei­ved that Petrus VVald [...] (of whom the VValdenses tooke their name at Lions) had his doctrine from no body, but that of him­selfe he attained to his owne knowledge, since he was not deep­ly learned. Matth. Pa­r [...] in Gul. Conque­store. Berengarius indeede vvas onely called in question for denying of Transubstantiation in the Sacrament, but it may well bee thought, that in some thing else hee dissented from the Church of Rome. And albeit by his ovvne vveakenesse and the importunitie of the Clergie, hee yeelded once or tvvise to recant, and abiure the true doctrine vvhich hee helde, yet hee had many Cōtinuat. histor. de gestis Ang­lorum, lib. 3. 27. scholers, vvho by his example vvould not bee driven from the right Beleefe, which they had apprehended. These scholers were in Malmis­bur. lib 3. France in great numbers, and in di­verse other Landes. And Genebrard cannot conceale it, but that about the Chro­nogr lib. 4. yeere of our LORD 1088. Basilius the Monke did set on foote againe the errour of Berengarius. And might not the doctrine of both these bee sucked from Bertram, who wrote so learnedly and so directlie, out of the Scriptures and Fathers, against the Reall-presence and Transubstantiation, that the Index In Bertra­mo. Expurgatorius cannot tell vvhat to make of him; but the Bishoppe of Resp. ad Dan. Tilen. fol. 258. Eureux vnder the name of Henrie Conne­stable, tearmeth him the greate fore-runner of all the Sacramen­taries; and La saincte Messe de­clar. lib. 2. 4 Rich [...]e the Iesuit disclaimeth him plainelie as a Sacramentarie Heretike. Then, Calvin and Zuinglius vvere not the first vvho gaine-saide Transubstantiation. Before our ascending thus highe, vvee might tell you of Saint Ber­nard, vvhome although it is likelie at the first dashe you will chalendge as your ovvne, yet vvhen you have vvell advi­sed on him, you may let him goe againe. For albeit hee had his errours, vvhich hee sucked from the age vvherein hee lived, and vvee may not in all thinges subscribe to his iudge­ment, but say of him as commonlie it is spoken, Bernardi [...] non vidit omnia: yet vvee finde in him s [...]rem partem, a liberall pro­fession of manie good and sound pointes agreeable to the Gos­pell. He for a fashion acknowledgeth maine matters to bee in the Pope, and giveth him De consi­derat. ad Eugen. lib. 2. 8. greater titles then any Papist can iustifie, but it is by such infinuation to winne him the more attention frō [Page 61] Eugenius, and then having procured liberty, or rather taken it to himselfe, hee schooleth and lessoneth the Pope, plainely shew­ing, that hee liked not of their ordinarie courses, neither did hee repute him to have that preheminence or prerogative, which his Parasites did allowe him. But touching the matter Serm. 61. in Canti [...]. of me­rit by good workes, for Epist. 190. Iustification by faith alone in Christ; for De gratia & libero arbitrio. Free-will, for Serm. 3. de 7. mise­ricordijs. Certaine assurance of salvation in the death and by the strength of our Saviour, and for Serm. in Concil. Rhemens. dislikeing then the vile life of the Clergy, how cle [...]re, how pregnant, how copious is hee? These thinges wee teach togither with him: and notwith­standing his other slippes, wee doubt not but his soule doth rest with the Lord, God pardoning vnto him his errours and igno­rances, which hee, being caried vvith the streame of that time, did never discusse, but tooke them as they were delivered to him, without scanning or examining. And to this good hope we are firmely induced, by that saying of Saint Paule. 1. Cor 3. 11. Other foundation can no man laye then that vvhich i [...]aide, vvhich is Iesus Christ, And if anie man builde on this foundation, golde, silver, precious stones, timber, hay or stubble, everie mans worke shall bee made manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall bee reveiled by the fire, and the fire shall trie everie mans vvorke of vvhat sorte it is. If any mans vvorke, that hee hath builte vpon, abide, hee shall receive vvages. If any mans vvorke burne, hee shall lose, but hee shall bee safe himselfe. Hee helde the foundation of Iustification by onely faith in Christ, and that our best deedes are but De gratia & liber. arbitr. via regni, non cause regnan­d [...], the vvay to the kingdome, not the cause of raigning▪ and for that cause we doubt not but his soule is safe, though his hay and stubble of praying vnto Saints, and other such stuffe, as cannot endure the fire of the holy Ghosts triall, do burne and consume. And this is our iudgment touching many other, both before and after the time of Saint Bernard, that holding Christ [...]e foundation aright, and groning vnder the heavy, but then of hu­mane Traditions▪ Satisfactions and other Popish trash they by a generall repentance from their errours and l [...]pses knowne and vnknowne, and by an assured faith in their Saviour, did finde fa­vour with the Lord. Such as these vvere, vvee holde to bee Gods good servants to be of the number of the Elect, and propter [Page 62] sa [...]rem & [...], for their founder and better parte, to bee of that Church vvhereof vvee are: to bee members of that bodye, vvhereof by the grace of Christ vvee are a por­tion.

31 And in this respect our setled and resolved iudgement is, that when it is asked, where our Church in former ages was, we may besides that which formerly hath beene answered, truely say, that it was in England, in France, in Spaine, in Italy, yea in Rome it selfe. Spiritus vbi vult spirat. The holy Ghost breatheth Ioh. 3. 8. where it pleaseth. For who cannot conceiue by the writings of many in former ages, or by such touches as other doe giue con­cerning them, that diverse who lived nearest the whore of Baby­lon, did most detest her abomination, & finding that the weake­nesse and impurity of her doctrine, could not truely satisfie the hungry & thirsty soule, did according to that knowledge which Christ out of his word reveiled to thē, seeke some meanes which was not ordinarily professed in that time. And if it be asked who they were, and how could they lie hid from the world, it may tru­ly bee answered, that their case was like the case of them in the daies of 1. Reg. 19. 18. Elias, who were not known to that State, which would haue persecuted them. Now why should not we thinke, but as God had his secret and invisible company at that time, in that most idolatrous country, so in the time of the deepest darknesse, he had those who saw light this Christian children among Anti­christs broode: such as embraced true religion, among the super­stitious? So that Italy and Rome, and these Westerne parts, had some of God [...] Saints in all ages, who like sea-fish, most fresh in the faltest water, and being removed in their affections, though not in their persons, did with [...] Lot vexe their righteous soules in the 2 Pet [...]. 8. middest of a spiritual Sodome, and kept themselues [...] vnspotted [...]am. 1. 27. of the world. And yet it is not to be taken, that we co [...]rctate the Church within those Provinces onely which looked toward the See of Rome, but know that God had thousands of his elect els­where. Osor. li. 3. de gest. E­manuel. Christians haue beene in [...] India, even by perpetuall dilcent from the daies of the Apostles: and so in Africa a­mong the [...] Abyssines, in [...] and huge-companies, besides Li. 9. Dam. [...] Goes de morib. Ae­thiop. such as haue continued [...], Asia the lesser, Aegypt, but [Page 63] especially in the Greeke Church, which was never so much as in shew extinguished, and from whome the Russians and Musco­vites had their faith. Our Popish lads would gladly shut al these out of Christs fold, because they acknowledged not the Bishop of Rome, for their vniversall Pastour: but we should do wrong to Almighty God, to pinne his iudgment vpon the Popes sleeue, and to offer to pull from him so many ample Churches, where­as charity and common sence might put vs in minde, that hee might there haue thousandes throughout all ages. Looke to these places yee Papists, and imagine that if there had been none but these, yet the wordes of the Scripture, which in generality speake of a spowse had beene true, and Christ had there had his body on earth, and the Church had not beene vtterly extin­guished, if neither we nor the Synagoge of Rome had beene ex­tant.

32 But in as much as it cannot be denied, but that the Prophe­cies concerning Antichrist doe most touch the Westerne world, Apoc. 17. 18. Rome being by the holy Ghost evidently designed, to bee the seate of the whore of Babylon, as also because our Romish stan­dard-bearers, are more willing to talke of those partes, then of a­ny other, I will once againe returne to the Countreies neere ad­ioining. Then in some parts or other of Christendome, how ma­ny men were there in al ages, who lo [...]thed both the See of Rome, & the whole courses of it, as the Israelites did loath the Aegyp­tian bondage? Matthew Paris alone giveth vs many notable ex­periments that way, as relating the Actes of the In Hen. 3. Emperour Fre­derike, who put out diverse declarations in detestation of the Pope; and adding else▪ where farther of his owne, that Ibidem. Pope Gregory did absolve from the oth of fealty, all who were bound vnto the Emperour, perswading them that they should bee faithfull in vnfaithful­nesse, obed [...]nt in disobed [...]ence. But somuch deserved the Romane Chur­ches lowdnesse which is to be ex [...]ed of all men, that the Popes autho­rity did merit [...] to bee harkened vnto by few or none. He reporteth also of a certaine Ibidem. Carthusian Monke a [...] Cambridge, who cryed out against the Pope, and said that he was an heretike, and that the Churches were profaned. And of Robert Grosthead Bishop of Lancolne, who was a man both holy and learned in his time. This [Page 64] Lincolniensis, while hee lived, had many Combates with the Bi­shoppe of Rome, and openly resisted his barbarous tyranny in dominering so farre in Englande, as to inioyne Provision of the best Benefices, to be taken vp for Italian boyes; which for a Lincolni­ens. epistol. Pre­bend in his Church at Lincolne hee vvould not yeeld vnto, and for that cause vvas by the Pope excommunicated. But vvhen he was Matth Pa­ris in Hen. 3 dying, hee most bitterly inveighed against the Romane Bishop, and the Ecclesiasticall Persons, as being the most w [...] ­ked men that did liue. In the same Ibidem. Authour you may also find the conceite, which the most Reverende Arch-b [...]shop of Yorke Sewaldus had of them and their proceedings. VVhat should I mention Hoveden. parte secū ­da. loachim, who said that in his time Antichrist was al­ready borne, and was in the Citty of Rome. Or that Bishop of Platina in Paschal. 2. Florence, who lived about the yeare 1100. and did vse to say, that Antichrist was then in the worlde, which mooved Pope Paschalis so much, as that he thought fit to enquire of him in a Councell, and did there castigate him for it. Notable in this kind are the contentions of Philippus Pulcher the King of Fraunce, and his whole Cleargy, against Pap. Mas­ [...]on in Bo­nifac. 8. Boniface the eighth. I might adde to these Petrus de Brus, and many other learned men, who laid the axe to the very roote of Popery, and some in set Treati­ses oppugned one of their documents, and some assaulted o­ther, but that the writer of the Catalogus Testium veritatis, as it is lately enlarged, and In Histor. Ecclesiast. Master Foxe, and Master In Catal. script. Brit. Laur. Hū ­ [...]r. [...]uitism. part. 1. Bale, and di­verse ¹ other, haue largely handled this; to the reading of vvhose bookes I doe referte them, who in particular desire to bee more advertised in this behalfe. Now if these things doe appeare much by their owne witnesse, and by the confession of Papistes them­selues, as also by such few Records, as by Gods providence so disposing, doe yet remaine; howe many illustrious argumentes might there haue beene of the confession of our faith, if the Clergy and Magistracy of those darke times, had not burned & suppressed all things which made against th [...], as I shewed before touching the bookes of Iohn VViclef, and Reginald Pecocke in Oxford. The Clergy in those dayes did almost rule all, and they had the custody of all libraries, to ransacke at their pleasure, or to put in and pull out, and they had power to search poore [Page 65] mens houses, and to destroy what was thought fit by them to be destroyed. But God, who would not haue his truth vtterly bur­ned, or buried in ashes, suffered a remānt to remaine, yea & that in England; albeit Polydore Virgil with an Italian tricke of his owne, did there consume and destroy many worthy & ancient monuments.

33 By this time I may well suppose, that some vehement Pa­pist, having read over this long Chapter, is even ready to svvell with his belly full of exceptions against these things heere saide. And first he wil begin & say, that we rake to gither as the Ance­sters and fore-runners of our faith, such as were notorious Here­tikes, as Wiclef or Hus or the Waldenses, men condemned by Popes or general Councels. And Heretikes, as Ration 10 Campian telleth vs, are the dregges and the bellowes and the f [...]well of hell. These as our Papists commonly say, are already fire-brands of hel, and frying there in the flames. It is no rare matter with the Synagogue of Rome, to pronoūce such sentences as these are. Our Rhemists by their Consistorial or Imperial decree, haue defined, that Calvine & Verone are not only Heretiks but In Rom. 11 33. Reprobats, for writing so as they haue done, touching the Article of Predestination. Yea they cal M. Beza a Reprobate also, although he were not only then a­liue, but yet is so; howsoever the Iesuites some An. 1598. vide Epist. Bez [...] ad Stuckium. few years since, did by a most ridiculous Pamphlet or other newes spreade it in Fraunce and Italy, that he was dead, and dying had recanted his Religion, and was turned to the Romish faith, which also Gene­va did by his example. It is no newes with Iesuites to lie, and therefore Master Beza must beare vvith them: and so had hee neede to doe with the Rhemistes also, vvho got hastyly in­to Gods chaire, & there concluded him to be a Reprobate. But indeede those good Christians before named, of whom many lost their liues for the maintenance of Gods truth, were heretiks in such a manner, as Christ was saide to bee Mat. 26. 65 a blasphemer, who indeede vvas both called so, and condemned to bee such a one, by a Councell of the High-Priestes, Scribes, and Rulers of the Synagoge. VVe doe not beleeue that all those are Heretikes, vvhom you Papistes will so call, or accounte: for you giue vs that name, vvhich maugre your malice, you shall never bee [Page 66] able to prove against vs. They are truely Orthodoxe and right Catholikes, who teach nothing but that, whereof they have evi­dent vvarrant out of the vvorde of GOD. And this vvee have, as hath beene ofte shewed by men of our side, and in that question we are ready at all times to iumpe with you for any parte or all the doctrine vvhich vvee professe. VVith Saint Paule therefore vvee say, that Act. 24 14. after the vvaie that you call Here­sie s [...] vvorshippe vvee the GOD of our Fathers. The same vvhich you maliciously and presumptuously tearme Schisme and Here­sie, is that vvherevpon (vnder our blessed Saviour) vvee rest our soules, and by the confession thereof vve hope to bee saved, in the day of the generall iudgment. Doe not you therefore take that for graunted, vvhich is so highly questioned betweene vs and you, but rather if you can, prove our profession to bee hereticall. By GODS grace we shall not shrinke at any of your biggest obiections.

34 Yea but say you farther, the vvriters vvich make mention of these your predecessours, doe brande them with the holding of some most grosse and damnable doctrine, vvhich you your selves vvill not avouch. My answere is, that wee our selves doe easilie beleeve so much. For did malice I pray you ever say vvell? The Act. 16. 20. cap. 17 7. 2. Cor. 12. 16 Apostles were at more times, and in more places then one, charged with many accusations, which yet in truth were but ca­lūniations. The old Christiās in the Primitive Church, were slan­dered to vse incestuous company each with other like Oedipus, and to eate vp mans flesh as at the banket of Thyestes: yea their owne Eu [...]b. Eccl. Hist. lib. 4. 7. [...]. 5. 1. servantes for feare were induced to lay such matters to their charge. [...]. [...]. 20. Theo­dor. Eccl. Hist I 1. 30. Athanasius was accused to have cut of ones hand, and a harlot to his face woulde have calumniated him, to have committed fornication with her. This practise vvas never more liberally frequented, then by the enemies of the Gospell, in the late daies of Popery. You may remember what I cited before out of Du Hailla [...], concerning matters f [...]lsly obiected to the Al­binge [...]ses. There is extant an In fasci­ [...]ul. [...]um exp [...]nd. Excusatory Oration of the VVal­denses, wherin they say, that for that their faith, which they were ready to iustifie, they vvere condemned, iudged, captivated and afflicted. And aftervvard, that they vvere called Heretikes. But [Page 67] in their Confess. Waldensiu. Confession they have it directly, Of these criminations vvhereof vvee are blamed oftentimes, vvee are nothing at all guiltie. The Pope and his Chapleins were fell and furious against them, because they did bite so neere, and therefore to disgrace them, both in present and to posteritie, they helde it fit that by speech, preaching and writing, it should be divulgated, that they taught monstrous blasphemies, that by that meanes the credulous peo­ple might be preiudicate, and so not onely frighted from harke­ning to them, but be much the readier to ioyne in the prosecutiō of thē to prison & to death. But what they indeed held, is decla­red before. When Cochl. Histor. Hussit. lib. 2. Iohn Hus was at the Councell of Constance, he did openly call God to vvitnesse, that hee did neither preach nor teach those thinges which his adversaries did obiect against him, neither that they ever did come into his minde. Neither is it to bee marveiled, that they did lade his scholers vvith the like false accusations, when their malice vvas such toward them, as that they burnt many Lib. 8. thousandes of them in barnes, vvhich vvas done by the trechery of one Mainardus. In other places the Romanists have still helde the same course of slaundering, vvhich caused the Protestants to professe, in the Diet at Augusta, Sleidan. Commen­tar. lib. 8. that di­verse opinions vvere falselie reported vp and dovvne, vvhich vvrong­fullie vvere fathered vpon them. And that th [...]se were not onely estran­ged from the holie Scriptures, but that they vvere abhorrent even from common sence. And is it not probable that long since, when much darkenesse did cover the face of the earth, and fewe had grace to perceive their doings, and fewer had authoritie to question their doctrine, the Pope-holie Clergy vvhich hated the true Gospellers vvith all their heartes, vvould pay them vvith vile and odious reportes; when in this age, wherein God hath afforded more plentifull meanes, to discover their fals­hood, they doe dare not only in their sermons, or in their secreter whisperings, but in their Printed bookes to proclaime abroade concerning vs, most false and vngodly calumniations and impu­tations, as that we do teach all loosenes of life, and Weston vbique. Libertinisme by this our new Gospel, that we Campian Ration. 8. maintaine, that al sins are aequal, that wee hould it as a Maxime, that God is the Author of sinne, and whatsoever else it pleaseth M. Campian and his felowes, to invent [Page 68] & devise touching vs, wheeras we vtterly disclaime these & the like Positions, as execrable & vngodly. Yea that Mounti-banke whom once before I mentioned, hath not blushed to assevere, that wee so teach, as that by our doctrine, Certaine Articles or forcible Reasons. At Anwerp, 1600. the Protestantes are bound in conscience never to aske God forgivenesse of their sinnes. And that they are bound in conscience to avoide all good worke [...]. As also that we make God the onely cause of sinne; And holde that God is vverse then the Devil. So shamelesse was this fellow growne, that he nei­ther knoweth not careth what he saith. And yet many a poore Papist, abused and gulled by the Devil [...] deceiving instrumentes, doth swalow such goageons, & runneth away with these things, beeing as verily perswaded of them, as that the Gospell is true. Such a hand the Seminary Priests have over their disciples, that they may not reade our bookes to see whether these obiections be true or no, neither may they heare ought to the cōtrary. Now if they thus vse vs who can speake for ourselves, wil any māmar­veile, that those who professed the verity two or three hundred of yeeres since, do t [...]st of the malignant aspersion of those times.

35 The Romanists not withstanding all this which hath beene said, do not yet so leave vs, but once more farther adde, that none of all those which hitherto have bin named, or can be named, but in some knowne, confessed, and vndoubted opinions, did vary from you, and therefore they and you may not bee saide to have beene al of one Church. Our Maisters of Rhemes do thinke that this lyeth hardly vpon vs, & therfore thus vauntingly they vrge, that they In Rom. [...]1. 4. will not put the Protestants to prove, that there were seaven thousand of their Sect, when th [...]r new Elias Luther began, but let them prove that there were seven or any one, either thē or in al ages before him, that was in all points of his beleefe. VVhat the olde Fathers taught, vvee shall have time inough in diverse Chapters heere-after to shewe; where by the assistance of GOD, wee shall discusse many single pointes of faith: but for other of later time, it is most easy to manifest, that all those whome before I have na­med, did generally for all maine matters teach the same which vvee novve doe teach. There is no Papist vvho can truely and vvithout calumniating them, or sayning thinges vpon them, demonstrate that in causes vvhich touch the substance of [Page 69] faith, or the foundation of Christian Religion, they did dis­sent from vs. Hee who will try this, let him looke on the Decla­ration In M^r. Foxes Ec­cles Histor. of Walther Brute, which I before mentioned, and let him reade it set downe by himselfe, and not reported by other. And what did that learned lay-man deliver there, which was not the beleefe of Wiclif, and the rest of the English professing the Gos­pell in those times? But if there bee in some petty matters, yea questions of some reasonable moment, difference in opinion be­tweene them and vs, shall vvee not therefore bee of the same Church with them, or they with vs? Yes verily: for otherwise many of the auncient Fathers, should not be of the Communi­on of Saintes, or Catholike Congregation with those who came after them, and amended their errours. For vvas not Divin. Iustir l. 7. 14 Lactan­tius spotted with the Millenarie infection, and Augustin. Epistol. 48. Cyprian vvith the matter of Rebaptizing? Had not Austen an Epistol. 106. & 107. opinion of the necessity of the Eucharist, to be administred to children, and that Infants being deade without Epist. 28. Baptisme, were not only deprived of the fruition of heavenly ioyes, but were damned to the pit of hell, and to everlasting torments? And what man religiouslie affected will suspect, but that although Saint Cyprian, and the o­ther Affricane Bishops aslembled in a Concil. Carthag. in Cypriā. oper. Councel, did, concerning the new baptizing of those who were already baptized by He­retikes, determine cleane contrarie to Cornelius, & the rest of the Italian Bishops, yet they should not be of the same faith in gene­rall, and of the same holy Church, whereof Cornelius was? Saint Austen can thus write concerning Cyprian: De Bap­tism contra Donatist. lib. 1. Whereas that holy man Cyprian, (thinking otherwise of Baptisme, then the matter was, vvhich was afterward handled, and with most diligent consideration established) did remaine in the Catholike vnity; both by the plentifulnesse of his cha­ritie a recompence was made, and by the sickle of his suffering there vvas a purging. Lib. [...]. In another place hee saith: The authoritie of Cyprian doth not terrifi [...] mee [...] but the humilitie of Cyprian doth refresh mee. Hee meaneth that if that vvorthy man had lived, to have seene more light in that argument, or to beholde, vvhat the suc­ceeding time had reveiled, and concluded in that behalfe, hee vvould in greate humilitie and meekenesse of hearte have conformed himselfe and yeelded vnto it. VVhich may iust­ly [Page 70] serve for a true defence of the Waldenses, Iohn Wiclif, Iohn Hus, or any other servant of God, who might seeme in matters of small moment to vary from vs.

36 And thus I trust that by this time it appeareth, to every one who will not wilfully close his eies, & stoppe his eares against an app [...]rant truth, that God hath at all times had his children houl­ding the verity of Christian Religion, & not approving of the fil­thie Superstitions, & sacrilegious Idolatries of the abhominable Antichrist of Rome. So that it is a most fonde collection, that ei­ther the Popish Convocation, or Confusion, are the right & vn­doubted spouse of Iesus Christ; or els that for a thousand yeeres togither there was no Church in the worlde. They doate much vpon themselves, and on the opinion of their bewty, who in such intolerable deformities, doe predicate and magnifie their Syna­gogue, as the vnspotted wife, and mystical body of our most bles­sed Saviour. Truth it is, that intending to blind the ignorant, and to abuse the simple, they laboured by all externall pompe and shew, to give to their hypocrisy and outward formality, a setled opinion of pietie and sanctitie; and for that cause there was no corner of the braine of man, or rather of men in many ages suc­ceeding togither, vnsought, to procure glorie to that which was in it selfe very vnglorious. Their care therefore was to convert the eies of all persons on their externall hewe, which was mar­veilously adorned and garnished to the sence, with their [...] Cros­ses set vp or caried before some Prelates, with the triple Crowne Praefat. Catalog. Testium ve­ritatis. of their Popes, the redd hattes of their Cardinals, the precious at­tire of some in their Churches, their prodigious apparel abroad, the diverse-cou [...]oured coules of their Monkes, such singing and chaūting with Organs, such ringing of Belles, such trimming of Images, & many more such sensible matters, as that neither the Iewes nor the Gētiles had the like. And amōg all this, if true Re­ligion in diverse were present, it is not to bee marveiled at if she were scant seene, or if no notice were takē of her, for her poore & vntrimmed or vngarnished hewe, for her naked simplicity and vnpainted integrity. It was the commendation given to Sol [...] beloved, by vvhome the Church is represented, that the Ps. 45. 13. Kinges daughter is all glorious vvithin: her bevvti [...] consisting of [Page 71] puritie in faith, veritie in doctrine, severenesse in behaviour, innocencie, patience, and such like spirituall complementes. And these are as much contemned in others by the Antichristian rabble, as they are neglected in themselves; vvhereas their ex­ternall pompe on the contrarie side is as much despised by the LORD, as it is magnified in their fleshly and carnall imagi­nations. And thus I ende this matter, hoping that if any Rea­der thinke that I have beene to long in this Chapter, hee will remember the waight of that which hath beene handled, and a recompence shall bee made in some other Reasons following, vvhere I am not enforced to the large handling of the question then occurrent.

NO man can iustly deny, but that they who have ever holden the name of Catholikes, and have bin knowne thereby, were vndoub­tedly of true Religion, for that they had ever on their side, the Scriptures, Miracles, Fathers, Councels & Martyrs, and for that every one which was against them was ever accounted & reputed for an Here­tike. And the same Catholik [...] were ever taken as the trunke, or as the bo­dy of the tree, and all others bearing the name of Christians, as branches or boughes cut of the same tree. Now all the world knoweth, that whose­ever in any age vvas a member of the Romane Church, and vnder the obedience of the high Bishop thereof, hee was ever taken for a Catholike & so tearmed, although in these our daies it hath pleased the Protestants to call such by the name of Papists, which indeede is all one with the name Catholikes; for that it signifieth such as follow and embrace the doctrine of that Church which hath for her head vnder Christ the Pope. And it is not amisse, as Chrysostome saith, to be named of them vvho governe the Homil. 33. in Acta. Church in Christes steede, so that they take not their name of any parti­cular man as Heretikes d [...]e.

BY this little which is already passed, eve­ry man may conceiue, that Master Do­ctor Hill is desirous to write a booke; (for I dare not saye, make one, for feare of slaundering him) and resolving that the ground of all his [...]ong should bee ta­ken from Master Bristowes Motives, he coulde not vvell for very shame beginne as Bristow beganne, least at the very en­traunce into this his renouned labour, he should be deprehen­ded, to take vp the most part of his ware on trust. Vsing there­fore in the front some little simple cunning to goe farther of, he with some change borrowed the matter of his first Chapter Brist. 37 & 45. Motive. out of the 37. and 45. Motiue of the other: but not willing to trou­ble himselfe any more in that painefull sorte to seeke farre of, his fingers present [...] [...]itched to bee doing with somewhat neerer hand; and therefore for the slender substance of his second Rea­son, hee goeth fairely and readily to the C [...]. 1. &. 3. first and thirde Chap­ter of his good Maister Bristow, and scambling somewhat of his owne in, from those two hee patcheth vp all the [...]est. Hee ho­ped that the former being not so much disguised as trans-placed shoulde haue covered all which followed: and if that at the first had beene clenly caryed, all which commeth after, woulde haue beene the safer vnder the protect [...]on thereof. There is or hath beene some what in the world, which thinketh all well if the heade of it selfe bee hid, although the whole body doe lye out to bee seene. If you knowe not what that is, [...] imagine it to bee Caligula the Emperour, vvho albeit in great thunder and lightning, as Sueton in Caligula 51 Suetonius reporteth, he would wholy runne vn­der his bedde for feare, yet if it vvere but a little clappe or flash, he would winke with his eies, and hide his head alone, and then he thought all his body out of perill: But for this borrower vpon Interest, his body lyeth open to vs searching for it: and the head, although both winking and hooded, hath not beene hid. And now take vs with you, I pray you.

[Page 73] 2 Every wise one can deny and that most iustly, that such as haue desired to ingrosse the name of Catholikes, appropriating it to themselues, and yet haue taken no farther care, but titularly to be are it, as [...] r [...], as M [...]ns [...] no [...] [...], cannot rightly make challendge to retaine & possesse the Orthodoxe faith; but that the Divine Scriptures, true and approved Miracles, authen­ [...]icall Fathers, O [...]cumenicall Councels, and Christes Martyrs may be as su [...]e from such counterfeites, as light is from darke­nesse; and men shall not bee Heretikes, but God [...] good ser­vants, who vpon sufficient ground do stand against them. The true Church is indeed [...] the Lordes Vine, the tree of his delight, a more precious plant then anye was in Paradise, but those who beare Apoc. 3▪ 1. a [...] to liue & yet are deade, as it was said to the Angel of the Church of Sardis, are to bee accounted no better, then dead boughes or rotten braunches, vntill they see their owne errour and there-vpon repent. And all the vvorlde knovveth (that vve may vse your phrase, which you borrow of Master Appendix to the quodlibets in the mar­gent. Parsons, or of the F [...]ench [...] le mon [...]) that hovvsoever in times past, vvhile Rome kept the Apostolike faith, a man v [...]ted to the same profession mighte bee called a Catholike, not because simplye and absolutely hee applyed himselfe to the men of Rome, but by reason that [...]ointelye and together vvith them, hee accepted the Beleefe of the Vniversall Church; yet nov [...] one conforming himselfe to the practise of that Cittie, to the Decrees of the Popes, to the Canons of the Tridentine Coun­cell, doeth me [...] to bee tearmed a Cacolike, an Heretike, an enemy to the Church, an adversarie of CHRIST, a vas­sall of Antichrist. But vve [...] are contented to giue them a mil­der appellation, of Romanistes and Papistes, or in L [...]in Pon­tifi [...]ij, because they fetch their Dictates and Oracles from Rome, and more respect the voice of their Pope, then the voice of Al­mightie God; they not sparing to thrust that miserable man in­to Christs place, and to make him not so much a ministerial, a [...] [...] monstrous head of their vn-Catholike Congregation. And since the name of Papists doth so please the, that in the former Chap­ter they [...]ssume it, and in this Chapter they [...] it, giving reason vvhy they shoulde haue it, as beeing all one vvith [Page 74] their pretended Catholikes, wee will not envy it them, but vvith good liberty they may take it. Neither shall they neede to trou­ble themselues so farre, as to cite Saint Chrysostome for the rati­fying of it. His words are these▪ Homil. 33 in Acta. But if we wil also haue the [...] of any man, it is not as from the beginners of heresies, but as from those who are rulers [...]ver vs, & do govern [...] the Church. The reason of which speech in that reverend Father, I cannot hastily gesse at, since wee finde not, that in or before his time, the Christians were cal­led by the name of any of the Rulers over the Church, not Petri­ans no [...] Paulians, nor any such name. Only his owne adversaries tearmed thē, who did sticke close vnto him, So [...]omen lib. 8. 21. I [...]ita, his proper name being Ioannes, and the appellation of [...] beeing afterwarde given vnto him, as a Cog [...] for his eloquence. In which respect it is probable, that for the defence of himselfe, and those which followed him in the truth, he did vse the words be­fore cited.

BVt yet the Catholikes are not called Papists, but only of a few Lu­therans in Germany, and of some other their adherentes in other countrey [...] [...]ere about: for in Greece, Asia, Afrike, and in the In­ [...]s, as i [...] Italy, Spaine, Sicily and in other countreyes of Europe, the [...] of Papists i [...] v [...]terly vnknowne. The name therefore of Papists is [...] vsed but only of a few, and never heard of before Lu­ther [...], for that hee coul [...] not call them after the proper name of any one man, because there was nev [...]r any such in the Church, which [...]ther brought vp any new doctrine, or changed the Religion of his Prede­cessours.

IF you would, you might quickly know, that names are given for distinction sake, & whē those persons to whom the names belong, are to bee distinguished from a generall sort, they haue names more generall: but when from a speciall comprehended in their own generall, they are to haue appellations more special. [Page 75] In Greece if a man had beene disposed to put a difference be­tweene one that was learned, and the vulgar vnlearned people, it had been a good note of distinction to say, he is a Philosopher. But when the question grew betweene several Sects & their o­pinions, then for more particular difference, it was not enough to say that Diogenes was a Philosopher, but he was a Cynick: such a one was an Epicurean, another a Peripa [...]eticke, this an Acade­mike, that a Platonicke. In some sence it is enough to say, that in the yeare 1588, her Maiesty of England had against the Spani­ard a campe of so many thousand English, resolute mē, religious, and well appointed: but when there is question of particulars in that campe, then the Oxford-sheere men had those Captaines, the Wilt-shire men these, and their colours were several. So if in India or Asia, the opposition must be betweene the Infidels or Mahumetans on the one side, and the servants of Christ, of what sort soever they be, on the other side, it is enough to say in ge­nerall, thus or thus do the Christians: But if there be occasion to particularize any thing, then the Christians in Spaine, or those in Germany are thus and thus affected. VVhen speech is of the do­ctrine of Mahomet opposed to Christianity, the name Mahume­tane will comprehend the Persian and his subiects, the Turke and his vassals, the kings of Argier, Tunis and Marocco, and all that are vnder them. But when we talke of the difference in Ma­homets profession, betweene the Turke and the Persian, vvhich hath on either party cost much bloud, we say the Persian thus holdeth: the Turke beleeveth thus. Wheresoever in Christen­dome there is disagreemēt in Religiō, some holding for the Pope and some other against him, there the name Papist is frequent: & this is not only in Germany, but God be praysed for it, in Nor­way, and Sweden, and Denmarke, in Polonia, in Fraunce, Eng­land, Scotland, the Low Countryes, & whersoever else the Gos­pell is knowne either openly or secretly. Yea in Italy, Spaine and Sicily not only the name of Papistes, but the whole doctrine of Popery woulde quickely come in question, were it not for your bloudy Inquisition, or cruell massacring otherwise, of such as bend not that way. And yet they be not able to extirpate Gods truth. As for the Greekes they loue you not, neither like of your [Page 76] Religion; and Asia, Africa and the Indies knowe very little of our differences in Profession, vnlesse it bee by the Christians themselves, and that onely heere and there, as at Aleppo per­adventure or some other Marte towne; except you vvill name a fewe creekes or corners of Africa, and the East Indies, where the Portingales have incroched, or those partes of the VVest Indies, where the Spaniards have devoured vp, almost all the olde inhabitants, and planted themselues: and to aske of these Portingales and Spaniards whether they bee ought but Catho­likes, is not to aske a mans felow, but to aske a mans selfe, whether he be a theefe or no? But surely the Infidels, or Turkes, or Greekes do neither call you nor know you by that name. And if Luther were the first who gave you that title of Papiste, which pleaseth you so much, you are behoulding to him for fitting you so right: not that you might not lustly have bin so called before. But hee having occasion to display your impiety to the full, and God in­ableing him with learning and knowledge, as also with spirit and wit for that purpose, hee gave you a name most sutable to your nature, which is the truest vse of appellations and names. It very well agreeth with you: for if Christians be those who harken vn­to Christ, and are directed by him, you may well be Papists, who depend on the onely voice and direction of the Pope.

WHereas [...], Heretikes have [...]ver take their names of some one who began that Havesy, as the Nestorians of Nestori­us, the Pelagius of Pelagius, Lutherans of Luther, Calvinists of Calvin, &c. And although Luther tearmed them Papistes, yet knevve hee so vvell in his conscience, that they ever had beene and ought to bee called Catholikes, as that he caused his followers to change their Creede in say­ing: I beleeve the Christian Church, and not I beleeve the Gatho­like [...]. Mo. 1. Church: for feare least they should be thought to confesse that they beleaved in the Church of Rome, which ever was called Catholike. And is seemeth that the Protestants know in their [...]vvne consciences the name of Heretikes to bee so proper to themselves, as that in their translations of the Bible, vvhere the name Heretike occurreth, they put in place [Page 77] of is, a man that is the author of Sects, assuring themselves that the Reader finding the worde Heretike or Heresie, would presently iudge it to be meant of them.

4. THat Luther & Calvin were Heretikes, you Pseudo-Ca­tholikes may say, but you shal never be able to prove it. They taught Gods truth, and if ever any would have shewed them out of the Scripture, that they had erred, such was their mind, they would have reformed it. As for the name of Lu­therans & Calvinists, to be desired or embraced by vs, we vtterly disclaime it; not that wee are ashamed to bee of the same faith which these worthy servants of God did teach, touching the foundation of Religion; but because we take our name from the Sonne of God, of whom wee are called Act. 11. 26. Christians. This is the name wherein all of vs doe reioyce, at all times and in all places, without any exception or circumstance of dependance: but the appellation of Lutherans, and Calvinists, or Zuinglians, or any such like, you in your hatred towards vs do set vpon vs. And by your rule of Chrysostome before mentioned, they might without im­piety be received of vs in some sence, since Zuinglius and Luther and Calvine, had a great stroke in the governement of those par­ticular Churches where they-lived, and were much honoured of the Congregations which were neere vnto them. As for the Ne­storians, we at knowledge that they had their title of the Here­rike Nestorius, and the Pelagians of Pelagius, yea if you will al­so, the Marcionites of Marcion, the Arrians of Arius, according to that of Chrysostome: Homil 33. in Acta. Are vvee cut from the Church? have vvee Captaine. Heretikes? have vvee our name from men? have wee any leader, as Marcion is to one, and Manicheus to another, and Arius to a third, & to a fourth another beginner of Heresie? But whereas you give down a general rule, that Heretikes have ever takē their names of some one who began that Heresy, we pittie you much & fairely de­miūde of you, frō what one did the August. de Haeres ad Quod vultd. Euchitae, the Quartidecimiani, the Patri [...]passiani, yea the Anabaptists take their name? you should have said that a great many had their appellation frō the auctor [Page 78] of their sect, but not all. And therefore put this also among your ignorances.

5 That Luther should be afraide of the word Catholike, so with­out reason vsurped by you, or arrogated to your selues, is a con­ceit very childish. He who dreaded not to encounter your Popes triple Crowne, to baite his Buls, to batter his Purgatory, to lay siege to Babylon it selfe, was never so white-liverd, as to feare the Moone shining in the water. Therefore when you shall cite v [...] some authentical warrant, that he changed I beleeue the Catho­like Church, into I beleeue the Christian Church, we will giue credite vnto you. But when you bring vs Master Bristow in the first of his Motiues, and he giveth vs no testimony of his speech, neither quoteth any place for it, we thinke that we may safely returne it to the shop, in which it was first forged. Notwithstanding we ob­serue the manner of your proceeding, you Papistes taking vp things by tradition, or one from another, without ground, to de­face any man of rare note among vs. You in your margent quote Bristow, and there vpon I turning to the place in him, finde the same accusation, but no place or tract specified, only Luther is put in the margent and nothing else. Your late fabler vpon Quinti E­vangelij. cap. 1. Nullus & N [...], serveth vs in this sort, saving that he ascribeth that to vs all, which his fellows limit onely to Luther. Being to speak of the Article in the Creede, I beleeve the holy Catholike Church, the Com­munion of Saints, he sub-ioyneth thervpon, This Article all the Pre­testants in generall, as farre as in them is, doe oppugne. First because they have thrust out of the Creede, the word (Catholike,) & in steede thereof haue put the word (Christian,) as is Catholikes were no Christians. This did Luther in the Creede in Dutch, because the word Catholike is a sta [...] in the [...] of the Protestantes. It is worth the marking, that first hee chargeth vs all with it, secondly the instaunce is given in Luther alone, and thirdly no proofe is made of that, no not so much as out of Giffords Calvino-Turcismus, out of which being as slaun­derous a worke as his owne, this excellent Authour doeth most commonly take his confirmations. Thus if one Papist will bee so wicked, as to devise something which was never spoken, or to pervert that to ill purpose which was well spoken, his fellowes will presently applaude it as a truth, and publish it one after ano­ther, [Page 79] as if it were as certaine as the Gospell. Now for this of Lu­ther, if there had beene any such matter, which but in probabili­ty could haue beene fastened vpon him, would that sweete fel­low Cochleus who pursueth him step by step, haue forgotten it? Or would he not aswell haue remembred him for the Creede, as he did for the Pater-Noster, although that also was but the see­king of a knot in a rush. For it is a complaint made by An. 1522. in actis Lu­theri. Cochleus against Luther, that in his translation of the New Testament, he did not keepe the set words of the Lordes prayer formerly vsed, but for Pater noster quies in coelis, he put it, Noster pater in coelo, and for, Sanctificetur nomen tuum, he translated it as if it were, tuum no­men sit sanctum, & yet you must vnderstand that it was into Dutch that he turned it, and not into Latin, where in all likelyhoode it was as a great fault to put Noster before Pater, as it is in English to say Our Father, and not rather Father ours, or Father of vs. Doe you not want matter of waight to obiect, when you spende your times in such frivolous exceptions? And even of this sort is the next stout reason which followeth. For as Luther was afraide of the worde Catholike, so are wee of Heretike, that is to say, never a whit: for we know that there be Heretikes, as Arrians, Anabap­tists and many more: and that the Romanists are as great in He­resie as any, in as much as they vary from truth in many, & those capitall and very dangerous pointes. But if you had not trusted your maister Bristow, from whom you haue Motiv. 2. stolne this, but loo­ked your selfe into our bookes, you should haue seene that Ma­ster Beza had translated that [...] of Saint Paul to Tit. 3. 10. Titus, hareticu [...] hominem; and so Tremelius out of the Syriake, A viro haretico. And the ordinary English hath it, even as the Rhemists put it, without varying a title in the whole verse, A mā that is an heretike after the first and second admonition avoide, & ano­ther English, Reiect him that is an heretike after once or twise admo­nition. And I thinke it be not to be found, but where [...] is in the Greeke, we put it Act. 24. 14. 1. Cor. 11. 19. Gal. 5. 20. 2. Pet. 2. 1. heresie. And if at any time there hath beene put for an heretike, an author of sectes, it hath beene to no o­ther purpose, but to expresse the nature of the word, & to make it plaine to the people, what is meant by an heretike, that is an in­ventor or a follower of some strange sector opinion in Religion, [Page 80] to which peculiar vse, the Ecclesiastical writers haue applyed [...] and [...] from a more generall vnderstanding amongst all the olde Grecians. Here it may be noted once againe, that you Papists make no conscience, in charging vs with any thing whatsoever, that maketh for your purpose. For if it bee in our bookes as cleere as the Sunne to the contrary, yet your people must not looke into our writings, so to disproue your falshoode: that is inhibited vnto them. Whereby it appeareth, that you not only do your best, to send your ghostly children to hell; but the glory of it is, they must goe thither blindfolded. At this b [...]ck you now haue them.

AS for their owne name, vvhereby they tearme themselues Prote­stantes, (which name they take from certaine Lutherans in Ger­many, who first named themselues so, differing and dis-agreeing altogither from the Protestants in doctrine) it is newe, and never hearde of before in the world, and of the same quality and condition, that the name, Zwingli­ans, is of. And therefore I conclude with the saying of Saint Hierome. If any where thou heare them, which are said to be of Christ, to be Advers. Lu­cif. Chryso. in Act Hom. 33. & Iust. in Tryph. tearmed not of our Lord Iesus Christ, but of some other, as Mar­cionites, Valentinians, Hil-brethren, or Field-brethren, bee thou sure, that they are not the Church of Christ, but the Synagogue of Antichrist.

I tolde you before, that absolutely we challendge no name but Christians, which is full out as ancient as the time of the Act. 11 26. Apo­stles; but Zwinglians you in your malice tearme vs, as also Pro­testants with a contempt. Yet this latter appellation was not be­gunne by you, but arose vpon an accident at Spires in Germany. There in a An. 1529. Diet the Duke Electour of Saxony, the Marques of Brandeburge, the Lantgraue and some other Princes, and Citties of the Empire, did make solemnely in writing a Sleidan. Hist lib. 6. Protestation a­gainst a [...]ecree or Edict, made in preiudice of the reformed Reli­gion▪ [Page 81] wherevpon for distinction sake, in cōmon speech the name of Protestants, which is the Prosters, was given vnto thē. By your former rule this cannot be an evill name, since it is not taken frō any man, or from the author of a sect, but it arose from an action, there first thought necessary to be done with those circūstances: Whence it may be no marveile, if that title arising from that acti­on, were never heard of in that meaning before. And since that time, those who are ready to vse the like Protestation vpon the like cause, or doe approue of that their wise and Christian course there, do not refuse to be called as they were, in some sense, not simply; for some respects, not absolutely; but most of all for diffe­rence sake from you, against whō the Protestation is to be made. Yea and custome having so prevailed, we do in writing & spea­king promiscuously vse the word Protestants, as we do Religiosi, or Reformata Religionis homines, or Evāgelici, not boasting in these ti­tles, as you doe to be called Papists, but only admitting of thē for customes sake, & to make a distinction between vs & you, both tearming our selues Christians. Now that we altogither disagree in doctrine frō the Protestants in Germany, is not so much ignorāce in you to avouch, as malice. For you know & sēsibly feele it, that we right-wel agree with thē & they with vs, in displaying of An­tichrist, his Indulgēces, his Pilgrimages, his Orders of Religiōs, in oppugning the Tridentine Councell which is the new-erected Capitol of Popery, in that excellēt Article of Iustificatiō by faith only, and in breefe in all matters of moment, saving the point of Consubstantiation in the Eucharist, which yet also thousands in Germany doe deny, and whereof I shal haue occasion to speake farther Ration. [...]. afterward. But the hatred which you do equally beare, vn to thē & vnto vs for the same respects, doth shew that we ioine in serving the same Christ, & discovering the same Antichrist. Your cōclusiō thē which you draw out of S. Hierome, maketh nothing against vs; nether doth ought that you intimate out of In. Martyr or Chrysost. They speake of heretiks who take both their name & doctrine frō men alone, & nothing at all from God: whereas first we are Patients and not Agentes, when the name of any man is set vpon vs, & this is not by our selues delighted in. And second­lye our doctrine is not from any creature, but onlye from Iesus [Page 82] Christ and his word, to whom we cleave and sticke as to a rocke, and regard none who bringeth any thinge contrarie therevnto. And so for this boute I leave D. Hill; putting him notwithstan­ding in minde, that he is so studious a sectatour, and so faithfull a scholer of M Bristow, that without varying a letter he citeth the place of Hierome, word for word as his maister doth, when Mon­tenses and Campitas, might for his credit sake, and to have had a little variety, beene as well translated Hill-men, or Field-persons, as after that sorte that he doth put them. But there Hierome, as it is most probable, alludeth to the Montanists, whom with a kinde of ierke he calleth not Montanists, but Montenses, & for their loose life rather Campitas, as being fitter to tumble in the fields, then to shew themselves on the mountaines, which also is collected by a learned Marius Victor. in Annotat. super Hie­ronim. man vpon that place.

7 HOwsoever some other simple flourishes are here made by M. Doctor, yet the substance of his second Reason is this; that the Romanists are called the Catholikes, therfore they are the true Church; which Argument is no better then a very vaine & ridiculous thing. For who doth not know that evil per­sons have good names, as [...] Adoni-z [...]dek the king of Hierusalem, [...] Ios. 10. 1. who was an Idolater & a Tyrāt, had a name signifying the Lord of iustice, or the iustice of the Lord, & one who was a grievous perse­cutour of the Christians, was tearmed [...] Theotec [...], the child of God. [...] Euseb. Eccl Histor. 9. 9. And as it fell out, that Hierusalem which once was Isai. 1. 21. the faithfull cittie, afterward became an harlot: so it commeth too oft to passe, that such as whose Auncesters have had a good name; & that not vndeservedly, do thēselves decline from the vertue of their pre­decessors, & yet wil strive for the name still. Beth-el in [...]. Reg. 12. 32. Ieroboams time was vnwilling to parte with the name of Beth-el, the house of God; but it rather deserved to be called Beth-aven, the house of vani­ty. The Priests & Levites, as may be gathered by the consequēce of the text in Malachy, & by the Lords answere there, did beare themselves bolde, that they were Gods Priests, and other there were none; they were of the seede of Levi, which Tribe the Lord had separated to be his chosen inheritance, they were the onely Levites: but heare what God said to it; [...] But [...] are gone out of the [...] Malach. [...]. 8. [Page 83] way: yee have caused many to fall by the lawe: yee have broken the cove­nant of Levi, saith the Lord of hostes. Hee reputed that but a painted sheath with a woodden weapon in it. How did the Ioh. 8. 39. Iewes boast that they were Abrahams seede, Israelites, sonnes of Iuda, the [...] ­nant of the posterity of the Patriarkes? but Christ telleth them, If yee were Abrahams children, yee would doe the workes of Abraham. Our Saviour in the Revelatiō doth meete with such marchants, who being in truth of the Synagogue Apoc. 3. 9. of Satā, did call thēselves Iewes and were not, but did lye. And among the Christians there have bin men desirous of names, which were not fit for thē, or else the A­postle would not have said, 1. Cor. 5. 11, If any that is called a brother, bee a for­nicatour, or covetous, or an Idolater, or a railer, or a drūkard, or an extor­tioner, with such a one eate not. The name of a brother in Christiani­ty is much: as presupposing to have God a father to him, who is indeede the father of all the faithfull: & yet there bee brethren in name, who are farre inough from God & goodnes. Hist Eccl. 3. 18. Evil names, as we find in Theodoret, being set on good men do nothing obscure them; The Christians were not hurte, when Iulian in a scorne to our Sa­viour Iesus, alwaies tearmed them Galileans: and if Socrates, saith Theodoret, had beene called Critias, or Pythagoras Phalaris, or faire Nireus foule Thersites, it had nothing impayred their true reputa­tiō. So it is in applying good titles to bad persons: they are not for the same in any more estimatiō, with such as be of vnderstāding. Whē theeves by a common phrase are tearmed good-fellows, & light huswives are called honest women, neither the one nor the other are the honester for that nominatiō. Those who are ordinari­ly called by the name of Iesuits, do little that may savor of the spi rit of Iesus; vnles to seduce youth, to inveigle & beguile the weal­thy, to play al trickes of Machiavel, to cōspire the death of Prin­ces, to plot how to set kingdomes in cōbustiō, & cūningly to sow secret discord & sedition, be the imitatiō of our blessed Redee­mer; which no man but one inspired by the Devil may acknow­ledge. What mā of learning is ignorāt, that the Saracens are des­cended frō Hagar, & from her sonne Ismael, and therefore should be called properly Hagarens or Ismalites, as the Psal. 83. 6. 1. Chr. [...]. [...]. Scripture doth warrāt. And yet as it was observed by Sozomen, more thē a thou­sād yeeres agone, to the end that they may avoid the imputatiō [Page 84] of bastardy by Ismael, and of basenes by Hagar, who was but a bond-woman, they take Sozom. Eccl. Hist. 6. 38. to thē the name of Saracens, as if they were derived from Sara the right wife of Abraham. Neither can there ought bee saide, why the Romanists should bee the true Church, because they are called Catholikes, but the same may be said for these Mahumetās, why they should be the sons of the free womā, & not of the bond. For the name is most ancient, and they are every where knowne by it, & if Saracēs be but spoken, ech-one that hath ever heard of thē, vnderstādeth that they and they alone, are meāt by it, & in Asia & Europe & Africa, yea in A­merica also, this by custome rūneth currāt without cōtrolemēt, & yet wee know that it is neither so nor so. I might adde more exā ­ples, as of those who are cōmōly, not only in Englād but in other parts of Europe, called Aegyptiaus, and yet neither they nor their fore-fathers ever came neere to Aegypt.

8: Our Seminary men therefore doe seede their followers', but with draffe & huskes in steed of corne, whē they lay before them such meate as this is: & they who live by such diet are not fedde but corrupted & poisoned by it. Let matters be wel wayed, and there is nothing farther frō Catholicisme thē Popery is. For shall wetake the word as it signifieth? The [...], is Vniversally or gene­rally, Augustin. lib. 3. con­tra [...]audēt. and [...] doth import vniversal, and so the Catholike Church in our Creede, or else-where, doth signify the Church vniversally diffused. That of the Romanists may not truly be re­ported to be so. For as the Congregations in Asia, & those vnder Prester-Iohn do no way admit therof, so those of Greece with ma­ny thousands in Europe, do not cōsort with it, & yet are Christi­ans too, howsoever the Pope doth repudiate thē as Schismatiks, because they wil not kisse his feete. How the Vniversal should in this case be so limited, as to extēd no farther then one Particular, our Logicke cānot find. Contra haeres. c. 3. Vincēti [...] Lir [...]s doth define that to be Catholike, which is beleeved every where, at all times, and of all. The Pa­pists cannot truly avere that this agreeth to their Profession. Or shal we take Catholike in that sence as our Iesuits seeme to take it, when they (as the secular Sparing Discoveri [...] of English Iesuites. Priests report of them) would ap­propriate the faith Catholike to the temporall government of the king Catholike, as if it vvere a principle that al of tha [...] Beleefe, must for their bodies bee vnder his Regiment, as for [Page 85] their soules vnder the Roman Bishop; yet they wil not be in the right; since many of our English Recusants make the worlde be­leeve, that they have no great minde to beare a Spanish yoke, howsoever some other secretly Hispaniolized, & little lesse then dis-Englished, or traitorified by the Iesuits, do earnestly but most foolishly and vnadvisedly thrist after it. But a great number also in France & Italy, & other Popish parts of Christendome, would for themselves forbid those banes. Or must we expound Catho­like for Orthodoxe & true, in which meaning that of Saint Au­sten may be; The Christiā faith De mori­bus Eccles. Cathol. lib. 1. 18. is not any where but in the Catholike discipline or instruction; & vnto which sence, vse & ordinary cu­stome hath now brought the word? Even so they are most farre from it. For while they strive about the name, they have lost the thing: they keepe the shel, but have parted with the kernel: while they lay hould on the Candle-sticke, some other is runne away with the light. Their case is like that of the kings souldiours of Socrat. l. 7. 20. Persia, who keeping the name of [...], or Immortales, were wel proved to be otherwise, whē by the Roman armies they were distressed, slaine, & shewed to be mortal. Let thē lay aside these verbal & titulary gloses, & make plaine out of the Scripture, that they maintaine the same faith, which Christ and his Apostles taught, & then they do somewhat. But they are fallen from it, yea from the sound profession, which was in the daies of the Fa­thers & Doctors of the Primitive Church, & therfore that which was true of their times, is not communicable now to Popery. No not that of Saint Austen, whervpon they have a maine desire to fastē, The De vera Religione. cap 7. Christian Religiō is to be held by vs, & the cōmunion of that Church which is Catholike, and is named Catholike not onely of her owne friends, but also of all her enimies. For wil or nil the very Heretikes, & fa­vourers of schismes, when they speake not with their owne but with stran­gers, they cal the Catholik church nothing els but the Catholike church. For they cannot be vnderstood, vnlesse they distinguish her by that name, wherby she is called of al the world. This was spoken of the whole nū ­ber of Christians in the world, which embraced the right faith, not of the Romane Church onely. And those who nowe are devoted vnto Rome, doe as much differ from the puritie and in­tegrity of their olde predecessours, as Babylon doth differ from [Page 86] Sion. Then in oppositiō to Heretikes, which were but in corners and fewe places, the faith which either Rome or any right Chri­stian citty helde, might be called Catholike; but nowe that which the Pope maintaineth, may it selfe bee reckoned no better then Hereticall perfidiousnes, which the farther it is spred, the worse it is with Gods flocke.

9 To set them therfore straight, by bringing thē from such viz­ards & painted shewes to the matter, it is not any name where­vnto men are directed, for finding out the truth, but Ioh. 5. 39. Search the Scriptures, saith Christ, for in them you thinke to have eternall life, and they are they which testifie of mee. And as they testifie of Christ, so do they also of his Spouse, as we find in diverse of the ancient Fa­thers. Cyprian saith, De Lapsis. Hee is not ioyned to the Church, vvho is separated frō the Gospell. He who beareth the name of Origene on the Can­ticles; Homil. 3. A good purpose, and the beleeving of right opinions, doth make a soul to be in the house of the Church. But S^t. Chrysostome or the Auctor of the Imperfect worke vpon S^t. Matthew, doth yet speake more plainely: Homil. 49. He who will know what is (or which is) the true Church of Christ, whēce should he know it but only by the Scriptures? The Lord ther­fore knowing that in the last daies there vvould bee so great confusion of things, doth therfore command, that the Christians which are in Christi­anity, being willing to receive the firmenes of a true faith, should flie to no other thing but to the Scriptures. Otherwise if they looke to other things, they shall be scandalized and perish, not vnderstanding vvhich is the true Church. By which our Romanists may see, that it is not a naked name, nor any other matter of all that vncertaine rabble, which the writer of this Pamphlet heereafter subioyneth, that can bee our direction, which is the Church, or where is the truth, but only the holy Scriptures. And as Chrysostome hath, Homil. 33. in Act. If any agree to thē, he is a Christian: if any fight against them hee is farre from this rule. The word of the Lord is the sure foundation, & he who buildeth on any thing besides this, setteth his house but vpon the Mat. 7. 26. sand, and while he thinketh that he standeth for the Faith, and for the Church, he is enemie to both; as those were to whom Leo some­times Bishop of Rome wrote thus. Leo Epist. 83 ad Epis­copos Pa­lestinos. you thinke that you deale for the faith, and you goe against the faith. You are armed in the name of the Church, and you fight aganist the Church. Let him who will farther [Page 87] be satisfied in this point, reade what a learned man hath written vpon this Argument, that Ioh. Rai­nold. Thes. 5. The Church of Rome is neither the Ca­tholiks Church, nor a sound member of the Catholike Church; and if he bee not obdurate, hee shall never neede to doubt farther in that behalfe. In praefat. De triplici hominis of­ficio. UUeston a most vaine-glorious, but shalowe fellow, at Doway, hath vaunted that if he had leysure, he would beate that servant of God to dust. I feare he wil never have leysure to grap­ple with him, vnlesse it be heere and there to skulke out at some hole or corner, and runne backe againe, I meane heere and there snatch a saying of his falsely alleaged, & vnconscionably perver­ted, as already he hath done. But if hee bee the man that hee pre­tendeth to bee, and I may request any thing of him, let him first begin directly to answere the Thesis before named, and we shall by his cariage therein, iudge what is his true strength. I woulde have VVeston fall about this worke, for it is of too high a pitch for my good Doctour Hill.

THe Catholike Romane Religion, being received by so many Nati­ons in Africa, Asia, & Europa, and in this last age in both the In­dies, hath, notwithstanding such variety of wits, such diversitie of māners, such multitude of tōgues & lāguages, such distāce of places, such nūbers of matters to be beleeved, yet ever kept Vnity & Concord in such peaceable & consonāt māner, as never any one in Englādor Irelād, which are the vttermost parte of the VVest-world dissented or disagreed in anie point of doctrine cōcerning faith frō him which lived in the vtmost partes of the East. But whosoever they be or in what place or Region soever they remaine in al the world, if they be Catholikes or Papists, (if you wil cal thē so) they all have one Faith, one Beleefe, one Service, one number of Sacra­ments, one Obedience, one Iudgement in all, with other like points of Vnion and Vnity, which maketh a geuer all Vniformity also in the peace of mens mindes, and to bee breefe, they have all one hart and one soule. Act. 4

1 WHen that Italian Didapper, who intituled himselfe, Praesat in explicatio. triginta si­gillorum. Philotheus lordanus Brunus No­la [...]us, magis elaborata Theologia Doctor, &c. with a name longer then his body, had in the traine of Alasco the Polish Duke, seene our Vniversity in the yeare 1583. his hart was on fire, to make himselfe by some worthy exploite, to become famous in that celebrious place, Not long after re­turning againe, when he had more boldly then wisely, got vp in­to the highest place of our best & most renowned schoole, strip­ping vp his sleeues like some Iugler, and telling vs much of chen­trum & chirculus & chircumforenchia (after the pronunciation of his Country language) he vndertooke among very many other matters to set on foote the opinion of Copernicus, that the earth did goe round, and the heavens did stand still; wheras in truth it was his owne head which rather did run round, & his braines did not stand stil. When he had read his first Lecture, a graue man, & both then and now of good place in that Vniversity, seemed to himselfe, some where to haue read those things which the Do­ctor propounded; but silencing his conceit till he heard him the second time, remembred himselfe then, and repayring to his stu­dy, found both the former and later Lecture, taken almost ver­batim out of the workes of De vita coelitus cō ­paranda. Marsilius Fic [...]us. Wherwith when he had acquainted that rare & excellent Ornament of our land, the Reverend Bishop of Durham that now is, but then Deane of Christs-Church, it was at the first thought fit, to notifie to the Il­lustrious Reader, so much as they had discovered. But afterward hee who gaue the first light, did most wisely intreate, that once more they might make trial of him, and if he persevered to abuse himselfe, and that Auditory the thirde time, they shoulde then do their pleasure. After which, Iordanus continuing to be idē Ior­danus, they caused some to make knowne vnto him their former patience, & the paines which he had taken with them, & so with [Page 89] great honesty of the litle mās part, there was an end of that mat­ter. If I had beene at Palempine with you Doctor Hill in your chāber, when you were writing this worthy work, I should haue dealt so charitably with you, as after the first & second reason to tel you, that some one or other of the Heretiks in Englād, would soone disery, where you had borrowed your stuffe: but when I had perceived, that you had been bold with Motiv. 27. M. Bristow for this third Reasō also, I would haue intreated you to haue done som­what of your selfe, or to let all alone, least some body should tel you, that by D. Fulke the most part of your booke was answered before it was made. But since I was then absent from you, & now it is too late to stop you at the third stone, you must bee content to beare your owne praise; and I satisfie my selfe, that assone as I can cōveniently, I acquaint you with it. And hereafter it may be that we shal receiue from you, Terent in Prolog. Eu­nuchi. Nullū est [...]ā dictū, quod non dictū sit priùs, or some other Apologie for such borrowing.

2. That your Antichristiā poison hath infected too many in Eu­rope, & some other places, we cānot but acknowledge, & excee­dingly grieue at it also; were it not that God had fore tolde, that there should be such an 2. Thes. 2, 3 Apoc. 17. 2. Apostasie, & Princes & Nations should be intoxicated by the Whore: but that the extēt of your infectiō, is not so large in Asia & Africa as you praedicate here, I shal haue occasion to shew you, in my answer to your fift Reason. You pre­tend that, notwithstāding such variety of wits, manners, languages, pla­ces & matters to be beleeved, (you should haue put the sixth also, as Bristow. Motiv. 27. your M^r. doth, such difference of opinions amongst learned mē, which you did leaue out, least you should insinuate to any, but a very fa­vourable Reader, a cōtradictiō to your own position) such vnity hath beene kept, as that in faith & doctrine, he who liveth in the most Westerne coūtries of the old inhabited world, hath not dis­sēted frō him, that resideth in those of the East. where by the way you faile a litle in your Geography, as wel as in your Divinity: for it is much doubted of Ireland, but certainly known, that Englād is not so far to the West as Gallitia, or Portingale: but in Africa, the partes about Marocco doe without controversie exceede them all Put this therefore in your negligences. But all Papists in the worlde haue one faith, one beleefe, one Service, one number of [Page 90] Sacraments, one Obedience, one Iudgement in all, and the peace of their mindes is such through their vniformity that they haue all one hearte and one soule. What their sympathy of affection in other matters besides Religion is, if we could not learne by Guicciard lib. 9. Pope Iulius the second, in person making warre against Mirādula, & the Frēch, then also lying in the field when all was covered with snowe: or by Natal. Co­mes Hist. l. 9 King Philip the second of Spaine, most eagerly watring by his Generall the Duke of Alva, against Pope Paulus the fourth himselfe: or by the Conestag. lib. 7. Histo. Spaniards prosecutiō against Don Antonio and his Portingales: or by the much loue, which Henry the third King of Fraunce with the Duke of Espernon, did beare to the Guize and the Leaguers, & they to them; or by the long conti­nued The estate of English fugitiues. factions betweene our discōtented English Fugitives be­yond the seas; yet our Romanists at home would lately teach vs; where the Iesuits and the Arch. Priest with his adherents on the one side, and divers of the Seculars on the other side, haue exer­cised such contentions, and almost deadly fewde each against o­ther, that all England and a great parte of Europe hath rung of the same; yea the Pope himselfe and his Cardinals are no straun­gers therevnto. And by your leaue, the rest of the Papists being either at liberty, or restrained, throughout this kingdome, haue not beene all of one heart, one obedience, one iudgement aboute these businesses; but there hath beene not only dislike, but intestine hatred also in some of them, against the blabbing Priests, and the party opposite to the Iesuites.

3 And doe all Papistes agree in matters of doctrine, of faith, and of beleefe, when the Quodlib. fol. 21. in margine. A dialogue betweene a secular Priest and a lay gen­tleman fol. 97. Iesuits are charged to giue toleration to come to the Protestants Churches, and the Seculars do with­stand it? When the Iesuits vphold the Bul of Pope Pius the 5. & the Seculars doe question it? When the Iesuites mainetaine, that the Excommunication Consistorially given against her late Ma­iesty, is a right and Papall sentence: but the Seminarians & their abetters, avouch it to bee a matter of fact, and not of faith, and therefore the Pope may there in erre. And is there one beleefe when you cānot doctrinally agree, whither the Pope or the Ge­nerall Councell be the greater? When not long since Pigh. Ec­cles. Hier. lib. 1. 2. Papists did mainetaine, that the authority of the Church was aboue the [Page 91] Scriptures, but the Bellar. de Concil. lib. 2. 12. Iesuites now deny it; and the In Gal. 2. 2. Rhemistes as moderatours cannot well tell what to make of it, but in some sences rather bend to the prerogatiue of the Church? And as you haue reformed many other things in Popery, so is your service the same? When your Breviaries or Porteises are so much altered since the time of the Councell of Trent, and so many shamefull things put out, which if they were impious or idolatrous, your people before those daies were in a pretty pickle. As Georgius & Timotheus being more nasute then their predecessors, did purge their Socr. Ec­cles Hist. 7. 6. Arrianisme, and cleared it of many the blasphemies of Ari­us, retaining such as were more plausible: so Pius the 5. cleansed the Breviary of many absurdities, and helde only those things which he supposed were more defensible. Bellar de verbo Dei. lib. 2. 11. In your new Missals also many texts are altered, from that which was in the old. Your Legēdaries in former times were read in the midst of your Con­gregations, & accepted for good truth: yet now you reiect your ancient books, insomuch that Motiv. 5. Bristow himselfe disclaimeth vn­certaine or false Miracles, which they reade, saith he, in I know not what Legenda Aurea: so contemptuously he speaketh of it: and now that only must goe for currant, which De Viti [...] Sanctorū. Surius & Lippoman haue revised and allowed. Nay hath the Church of Rome ever had one beleefe, when the foundations of their faith, in which, vvill they nill they, their soule and salvation must bee acknowledged to consist, are and haue beene so and such among them, that no man can well tell, what to make or determine of them; I meane the Scripture which is vnto them as a deade law, and the Pope which is as the living Magistrate. For first touching the Scrip­tures, we know that with them the Latin Vulgar Edition is on­ly authenticall, and so the Session. 4. Councell of Trent hath defined it; whereas the Originals of the Hebrew and Greeke, which are the first and clearest fountaines, are but basely esteemed by many of them, insomuch that they Prolog ad Lector. an­te li. 1. Esdr. who put out the Complutensian Bi­ble, say that they haue set the Latin there, betweene the Greeke and Hebrew, as Christ was vpon the Crosse betweene the tvvo theeves. Now what can any man make of this their Latin Copy, when besides the difference of it from the Originals, (against which we most except) it is in it selfe so often altered, and chop­ped [Page 92] and changed? for besides the Castigations & Corrections of the Lovanists and Coleinists, and I cannot tell how many, the Pope Sixtus 5. did cause it to be revewed, & [...] professing that hee had amended very much of it, he made it to be new printed▪ & [...] praefixa Biblijs Six­ti quinti. prefixed a Bul before it, testifying that he in his own person had gone through the whole Copie, and iudged of it, yea amended the faultes escaped in the Printers Presse, with his owne hand, & therfore did give charge by that his Constitutiō, which was evermore to stand in force, that it should never afterward bee altered, or any other Copy of the Vulgar Edition bee vsed. And if an [...]e did attempte contrary to his Decree, then hee shoulde inc [...]rre the displeasure of Almightie GOD, and of the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paule. This vvas published but in the yeere 1589. and vvithin three yeeres after, Anno 1592. commeth Pope Clement the 8. and vnder a coulour that his Predecessour Sixtus had intēded tore­vise his Bible once againe, but that hee dyed before hee could effect it, hee putteth out another, in many hundreds of textes differing from the former, so that the diversities compared togi­ther, doe make a [...] prettie booke; and there is little more va­riety [...] Bellum Papale Thom [...] Iames. for materiall pointes, betweene the translation vsed in the Church of England, and the Rhemish Testament, then is be­tweene these two. And since the nexte Pope vvho succeedeth, vvill thinke scorne but to have as much auctoritie as his Ante­ceslour, it may bee chopped not onely once more but many times: so that the Romish Church may bee saide, to bee so farre of from Vnitie in Veritie, that of certainty they have not the Scriptures, vvhereon their faith must bee builte, but they in former times, and these in this present age have various groundes to rest themselves vpon. Secondly as nowe it is with the Scriptures, so it hath beene heeretofore vvith the Popes, when they have had 23. severall Schismes, Antipapes being erected the one against the other, and those broyles sometimes continuing, for scores of yeeres togither vvithout interruption; so that all Christendome by partaking vvith them, hath beene in an vprore, and thousandes by that meanes have beene mur­thered. Novve if it bee such an Article of faith; that the Church must bee beleeved, yea beleeved in, and this Church [Page 93] is the Romane Church; and is ministerially inspired by the heade, and the heade is not onely like bifidus [...], a hill vvith tvvo toppes, but triplex Gerion, or tric [...]ps [...] vvitl [...] three partes, as it was a little Vide C [...] ­cil. Con­stantions. before the Councel of Constance, three Popes vsurping at one time, and everie one of these doe eurse to the deepest bottome of the lovvest hell all that stande against them; nay all vvho are not vvith them; and in their Consistories, if they bee Popes, they cannot erre. Will any man, vvho hath his vvittes about him thinke, that here is one Faith, and one [...] in the Romish Cocke-pit? And especially when these Popes, shall against the Antipapes proclaime Croi­sadoes, that men are to marke themselves with the signe of the Crosse, and fight against their adversaries, as against Turkes, Sa­racens and Infidels, the knowne enemies of the Christian pro­fession. Heare this yee Papists & blush, when you mention your Vnity.

BVT on the other side if you looke into the d [...]ings of Protestants, you shall see such dissensions, such divisions, such schis [...]s, such contra [...]tie of opinions, as the like was never among the Arrians, among the Eutychians, among the Donatists, among the Nestorians, among the Valentinians, [...] yet am [...]ngest the most [...]arring Heretikes that ever were. So as you may plainely beholde in Luther his seede the selfe same thing that the Poets faine of [...] his sowing; you may see Ovid. M [...] ­tam. lib. 3. Iudic. 7. the Madianites and Amalekites in [...] against the people of God; builders of the tower of Babell, accusers of ch [...]st Susanna: for they are not onely different, and devided from the generall body of Catholikes in Chri­stendome, with whom they were v [...]ited [...], but amongst them­selves they have implacable warres.

4. IN your whole booke you raunge frō the truth: but heere not the least of all. There are some fewe pointes in differenc [...] [Page 94] betweene the Professours of the Gospell, but you hartily coulde wish that there were more; evē as an ancient Romane, the more to satisfie the ambition and bloudy covetousnes of his Country­men, did thus pray, Let Tack. de morib. Ger­mano [...]. there remaine and continue in those Nations, if not the loue of vs, yet the hatred of themselues, speaking of the olde Germanes & other bordering Natiōs. But God be praysed, there is not such disagreement, and multiplicity of sects, as was among the old Arrians, who variously contended with the professours of their owne Heresie. That the Eutychians, Donatists, Nestori­ans and Valentinians, did very much i [...]rre among themselues we do not read, vnlesse you meane each sect against other, which fitteth not your purpose: since even your selues doe thinke it no disgrace, to disagree with al in the world, whom you account He­retikes, and especially the Protestants. Neither are they the seed of Luther, who as you say agree like Cadmus his men, or the A­malekites and Madianites, or the builders of Babell, or the slan­derers of Susanna, but they are known Heretikes who are sprūg vp since that time, as Servetus, the Anabaptists, and other of like sort, being the seede of the Mat. 13 25 28. [...] man, who when men were a sleepe came and sowed tares. And albeit some of these might go out from vs, yet 1. Ioh. 2. 19 they were not of vs, as you might know by Luthers writing even at the first against these Sleidan. lib. 10. Anabaptists, (professing that the same Divell who set them on worke, was but a grosse and foo­lish Divell) and Instit. li. 1. 13. Calvins against Servetus, and others against o­ther. Yeam [...]ny men of worth of our part, haue not only by prea­ching disclaimed them, but by written bookes haue confuted them; with much more zeale & diligence then any of your side. And where the reformed Churches are, the Christiā magistrates being taught out of the word, and called vpon by their Pastours, haue censured with severe punishment, yea sometimes so farre as Centur. 16 lib. 2. ca. 34. & 22. to death, such as haue broke out to the maintaining of any ve­ry impious and blasphemous doctrine. With these it is that they haue implacable hatred; and yet not with their persons, but with their opinions; for they loue August de civit. Dei. li. 14. 6. that which God made in them, but hate that which the Divel hath infused or inserted. But the Pro­fessours of the Gospell doe not in maine points vary one from a­nother, nor yet from the Orthodoxe Church, although they cō ­ioine [Page 95] not with the servants of Antichrist, who being Pseudo-Ca­tholikes do arrogate to themselues the name of Catholikes. And from these that they are come forth, they are right glad; least re­maining in Babylon, and Apoc 18. [...] partaking of her sinnes, they should receiue also of her plagues. It was no dishonor or hurt vnto Lot, that he Gen. 19. 12 came out of Sodome, when God did cal him, but it was his safety and happinesse: for if he had remained with them, hee had perished togither with them.

5. The matter wherewithall you may iustly charge them, is that opinion of Luther, and some of his scholers, concerning the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Where, as he d [...]ffereth from your monstrous conceite of Transubstantiation, so bending too farre another way, he imagineth that not only bread remaineth after consecration (which is very true) but the body of Christ also cō ­substantiated with the bread. And for the maintenance of this, first groweth here-vnto, that in the bread, with the bread, and vnder the bread, or some way of those, is the realty of Christs person; & secondly that by the almighty power of God, he is every where invisibly; vpon which ground the vpholders of that doctrine, are by some tearmed Ubiquitaries, and are concerning that pointe rightly refuted by Bellar. de Christo. li. 3 cap. 11. Bellarmine. This was in Luther [...]rror, & lap­su [...] human [...], which the Lord suffred in him, as he hath permitted the like both for opiniō, & slips of life too, in divers of his Saints, that thereby wee might learne that men bè men, and that this world, is Bernard. de modo benè vivē ­di. cap. 10. via, non patria, the way and not our countrey, a place of defect and not of true perfection, the habitation of men and not of Angels. This consideration doth holsomely humble vs, and maketh vs more earnestly to pray, that we may haue a right vn­derstanding in al things, and that we may be guided by the Spi­rit into all truth expedient for vs. By this also wee are taught not to doate too much vpon men, but only to follow them so far as they do 1. Cor. 11. [...]. follow Christ. And it is no shame at all, but rather a cō ­mendation to our Churches, that whereas he himselfe, whom we honour as an admirable servaunt of God, doth swarue from the path, be it little or be it more, wee rather follow the way, then him. But some haue written that Luther before he dyed, relin­quished that his own opinion, saying that he had gone too far [...] [Page 96] in the matter of the Sacrament, as the Acta Col­loquij Mul­ [...]unens. Ministers of Heidelberge do affirme in a Dutch booke; as Chron. lib. 4. Genebrarde himselfe relateth vnto vs. Indeede it had beene to be wished, that al who came af­ter him had beene of his minde, (if that were his minde) and had sought peace, as Philip Melancthon did▪ but all the scholers of Luther would not subscribe thervnto, but some haue divulgated bookes against them, whō in their heate they haue called Zwin­glians, Calvinists, and Sacramentaries, & so having stirred vp the flames of contention, haue given occasions of ioy to the enimies of them both, who will soone with an Ioy at the hurt of o­ther. [...] take com­fort in their evill. That is the fruit of Christian mens contention, as long since Gregory Nazianzen could say of a difference be­tweene some Bishops, about whom the people at Constantino­ple were divided, Ora [...]. 10. My Tragedie is nothing else to our enemies but a Comedie. Therefore it is not a little, which we haue taken from the Chur­ches, and added to the stage. I doe wish that the Lutherans & their con-combatants had remembred this, as for some other reasons, so to stoppe the mouth of the common adversary. But being as it is, we doe not doubt but they both are Gods servants if they liue according to the Christian rules of their professiō, since they both doe rightly hold the 1. Cor. 3. 11 foundation, that is to say, Faith in Iesus Christ, and Iustification by his bloud only. We read of one called Sozom. Eccl. Histor. lib. 1. 14. Eutychianus, who wen [...] astray being in opinion a Novatian; yet he was much esteemed by the good Emperour Constantine, and there were very pregnant testimonies that he was the childe of God. Euse. Eccl. Hist. l. 3. 33. Ireneus held the errour of the Chiliasts, And Iustine Dialog. c [...] Tryph. lud. Mar­tyr embraced the same conceit; and yet who dare seclude them frō the fellowship of the faithful? So we doubt not, but the main­tainers of the doctrine both of Zwinglius & of Luther, are as wel iointly members of the Catholike Church, and Communion of Saints, as Concil. Carthag. in Cyprian. Cyprian was on the one side with his African Bishops, and Cornelius was on the other side with his Bishops of Europe, albeit these had much contention each with other, and dyed in difference of opinion, concerning rebaptising thē who were bap­tised by Heretikes. So that (the Lords name be praysed) howso­ever we could wish, that neither formerly nor now, there were a­ny such examples, yet this contention is not the first, and it is but [Page 97] one, and [...], as y [...] the Pamph [...] would have [...]. We wil [...].

I I would you did but see what I have seene in these Countr [...], as [...] the [...] [...]ds, [...] & di [...] of Luther his of-spring [...] a [...] of the Muntzerans, Anabaptists, Adam [...], Steblerians, sabbata­ries, Clan [...] [...] Gart [...]der, Manifestarians, D [...]monians, Cōmon holders, [...]pers, Howling Anabaptists, Davidge or gi [...], Memno [...], Polygamists, Signifiers, Figurers, Valewers, Pledg­ers, Presentaries, [...]tamorphists, Iud [...]sts, Neutersacramentaries, Image-breakers, Zealons Lutheranes, Soft Lutheranes, or Interi­mi [...], New Arrians, Trinitaries, Hell-maisters, Hell-tormentors, Antid [...]monians, Amidorfians, Antadiaphorists, Antosiand [...]lans, Anti-Swanck [...]dians, Anti-Calvinists, H [...]d-impositors, [...], S [...]s, Invisibilists, S [...]turians, Adiaphorists, [...], [...], Luther [...]-Calvinists, [...] Pen [...], [...], [...], [...], [...]drians, Sta [...], Antistan [...], New-Man [...]chees, St [...]bergers & of such lik [...] [...] which [...] their [...] out of the dregges of Luthers doctrine, [...] [...]e [...] Protestants all.

6 IN what country you have heeretofore lived, it is harde for we to tell. In England you were when you published this [...] & had [...] else-where with you, whē you penned this worke, (if else where you did p [...] [...]) hee should sc [...] have [...] two or three persons in [...], of those sectes which [...] you [...]cite. But h [...]m [...]th hee [...] what you [...]we, hee [...] have [...]lying before you, a [...]de booke of th [...] [...] Apo [...] St [...], vvhich vvas thirtie yeeres since Apology of Fride [...]. [...]taphyl. [...] into Eng [...], by our Countrey-man Stapleton. This Sraphy [...] you follovve in these vntrue reportes of yours and from his booke English [...], you shamefully [...]ke all these [...], vvorde for vvorde. VVhile I reade them, as also the [...] and Cities vvhich else-vvhere you [...] Ration. [...]. I thinke vpon a C [...] booke, which [...], [Page 98] where [...] [...]ped to [...], [...]spirit. In Latine letters th [...] it is, [...], [...], [...], [...], El, Ad [...]i, [...], M [...]ssias, S [...]er, E [...]nel, [...], A [...]ha, Paracle [...], Propheta, S [...]des, K [...]s, Pant [...]r, all vvhich shoulde enforce the spi [...], to doe as the Coniure [...] [...]oulde have h [...]. Such a [...]umble and bugge-beare you pro­po [...]de vnto vs heere: and the Heresies vv [...]h you [...] are so much the liker to these vvoordes vsed in Coniuration, because [...] these for the most parte doe signifie one thing, even that immaculate essence and omnipotent beeing, GOD, how­ [...] it they be wickedly applied, so for these good fellowes whom you muster heere, many of them differ little in their opinions, although you to make a [...]ourish do name them severally; like a b [...]dde Captaine who keeping in his liste, the names of souldiers who are slaine or gone, knoweth how to make vse of deade p [...]y for his owne benefite. But this is the cust [...] of you [...] to make a shewe with names; [...] [...]en [...] a C [...]loge, an [...] to the same purpose, hath In Epistol. apolog [...]t. [...] that [...], In [...] base answere for [...] vnto D. [...]. And may it not bee, that diverse of these vvhome you both name, may bee good Christians; as the [...], [...] and the Scri [...]s, if they ho [...] no vvo [...] do [...] [...] their titles may importe? As S [...]nt [...] De haere­ [...] ad Quod vul [...]. Deum. remembreth, that [...] in rehearsing of Heresies, did differ from Philastr [...], and [...] from him, because that seemed to one of them to be an Heresie, which did not so seeme to another; so certain [...] if some wise man either of [...] your sid [...], should sca [...] the tr [...] opinions of all whom [...] yo [...] [...], [...] would prove [...] many to be no Heresie, wh [...] [...] do condemne. But wee praise the everlasting Lord [...], that wh [...]as in [...] there is as flourishing a Church, as in any [...] world, we heere kn [...] the names of [...] of them, [...] with the p [...]sons of none of them, who hold such [...] [...]tions, And wee ver [...]ly beleeve that you lurking in our owne co [...]ey, have to do [...] as [...] of them. But when yo [...] ha [...] done [...] that favour, [...] to [...] th [...]se good [...], and [...] they [...] holde, you shall vnderstand▪ [Page 99] our [...] And in the m [...]ne time kn [...] you, that [...] taught [...] doctrine, neither doe the [...] chalenge to them, if they hould ought [...]; [...] [...]emne them and writ [...] against [...], [...] bin d [...]red.

7 But [...]o allow you so much, as in any probability you can pre­tend, th [...] since Luther [...] time, so many several opiniōs have spr [...]g vp as five & fifty, (for of so many you would make shew) yea & that the most of th [...] would willingly shrowde themselves vnder [...] [...], yet doth this (with vnderstāding Persōs) [...]ke any [...] against that truth, which either we or Luther did professe? For might not the same have bin obiected before his death, to S [...]. [...] the Evāgelist, which you here obiect against vs? [...] of the remainder of the malicious Iewes might thus h [...] said. We al agreed vpō the law of Moses, til you came & in [...] [...]; [...] vnity for our sacrifices, & concord about our [...] harmony of cōsent was every way to be found amonge vs. But now while you talke of Iesus this new Saviour, yo [...] cānot agree among your selves, what he is, or how to be ser­ved. You [...] many [...]cts, & those iarring [...]h with other, the scholers of [...] Mag [...], of [...] & [...], of [...] & [...], wherof some deny the [...]-hood, & some deny the [...] of your Christ, and some vary in other matt [...]: And you have [...] Apoc. [...] [...]5. [...] and we cannot tell how many kinds, and the [...] [...] will b [...] [...], and pretend [...] dra [...] their do [...] from you [...] th [...] Apost [...]. S [...]. [...] hearing th [...], would not have bin a [...]shed at al; but would have signified, that there was [...] [...]ght way which was chalked out, in the writings of the old & [...] Test [...], & [...] b [...]ing walked in, wo [...]d b [...]ng men vn­to life; & th [...] [...]st [...] by [...] [...], which [...] had ope [...], [...] being [...] to draw some thither, vnto their owne [...]. But if you will looke lower to the fourth age after Christ, [...] shall finde that you [...] obiection might mo [...] [...]ly have [...], by [...] Ge [...]es, in [...]o [...] [...]. [...] did [...] [...] ▪ [...] [...] [Page 100] [...] you many strifes, [...] I know not [...] I should choose, what I should preferre. Everyone such, I say the truth. [...] I should beleeve I [...], since I am [...] of the Scriptures, and they on both sides doe pretend the same. Yet his Conclusion is, that [...] of the Scripture, and such necessary consequences, as are drawne from thence, the iudgement what is truth, is to [...] had. But what small vnity was there among the Christians, when he wrote this? Or when Saint Austen mencioned more then De haere­sib. ad quod vult Deum. fourescore heresyes, which had arisen in the Church; all whom but for tediousnesse I would retire from him, as also one of Epiphanius and Theodoret, that the Reader might see that we need not to be frighted, with the pretended shew of your 55. Now might not such a one as that Symmachus was, who vnder the Emperour Valentinian, & in the time of S^t Ambrose, made so ear­nest & effectualla Ambros. Epist speech, that Ethnicisiue might be restored in Rome, and altars might be permitted to their Paimme Gods, Iupiter, Mercury, Apollo, I [...]o and the rest, have disputed in the same manner against the Christian faith, as you now do rea­son? VVhile vvee retained the service of our formerly knowne Maiores & minores Dij, vvee agreed vpon that vvorship which every God should have, wee knew their Temples, their altars, their sacrifices, their Priests, their feasts, times and seasons, vvee had vnity in our heartes; and sweete harmony in our speeches. [...] which you have [...]hed among vs, we see nothing [...], to which we may cleave▪ for howe should we be resolved what is to be embraced, when you cannot agree among yourselves, what is the [...] and right way? And the dif­ [...] is not, that some go to the [...] hand, & [...] the other, [...] a mā had [...] many hands, [...] Plutarch. de multi­tud. a [...]co­rum. Br [...] [...] which [...] d [...]ed hands was imagined to have, there [...] some be wanting, who with [...] dis-ioined [...] from [...], would [...] to every one of them. If Symmachus had spoke thus, as he [...] [...] not behinde hand to vtter other [...] she [...] available [...] his purpose, St. Ambrose who answered [...] obiections, [...]d [...] have [...] this, [...] would [...] I [...] [...]Line [...] [Page 101] and the same individed truth, should be hemmed about with ma­ny different doctrines of Heresie.

AND what divisions you have there in England, you may in some sort know, who doe (as I thinke) now and then heare Preachers of different doctrine. What combats your Bishops, Councellours, and moderate sort of Protestants have to defend their Parlimentary Reli­gion, and the Queenes Proceedings as they terme it, against Puritans, Brownists, & other such like good fellowes, that by shew of Scriptures im­pugne it, you cannot but knowe and see with your eyes. Neither can it bee answered, that the Sects heere rehearsed differ one from another onely in matters of small moment, for they differ and disagree in waighty points of our salvation; as might heere easily be declared, but that it would not be­nefite this mine intended brevity so to doe.

8 WHen you have put on your spectacles to see, & have picked your eares to heare, you and all your confe­derates can neither iustly see nor heare (Gods name be blessed therfore) that either at this time, or at the divulging of this your treatise, there be or were any differences of opinion in England, concerning the faith. Our Preachers do not differ, or teach di­verse doctrines in any of their Sermons. VVe have for our rule the olde and new Testament, & the Articul. Relig. in Synodo. 1562. Confession of our Church in the Articles of Religion, set out by the warrāt of the Scripture alone: and to these as to the Analogy of faith we do cleave, and there is no graduate in our Vniversities, and much lesse, Prea­chers and Pastours in our churches, but subscribe thervnto. And if heeretofore, there have bin some fewe Brownists mis-ledde, by a man who afterward was sory for his own over-sight, the name of them now (as I thinke) is not to bee heard of among vs. And such as you cal Puritans, did never differ frō the rest in any point of substance, but about circumstances and ceremonies, as cappe, surplesse and such like, and about the manner of Ecclesiasticall [Page 102] regiment; even as your secular Priests lately did not thinke fitte to bee ruled by your Arch-priest and his Assistants, and yet Gar­net your Provincial, and Persons the Rectour of your English Seminary at Rome, and the Pope himselfe (whether by any sur­reptitious Breve, or no, doe you looke) did thinke fitte to have them so ordered. But never were the Coūsellours of Estate, nor the Bishops of this kingdome, so disquieted with those dis agree­ments, as the Court of Rome & the Cardinals there, have beene with your ga [...]les in England, in as much as the bruit of these differences heere, went but to the Bishop of the Dioces, or the High Cōmission at Lōdon, but your broiles & brabbles have pas­sed the Sea, crossed Fraunce, traversed the Alpes, & have never ceased rūning, till they have rapped at the gate of Appella­ [...] [...] Cle­ment. 8. Clemens Octa­v [...]. What the issue of thē farther wil be, time must discover; but of this we are assured, that to your great discontentment, and to the end that we might all the better observe you, in our late Soveraignes daies of most happy memorie, the fatherly wise­dome of our ch [...]stest Church governours, and the moderate temper of other men, being not so farre of from seemely con­formity as heeretofore, did to the ioy of all good men reasona­blie well cure that wound, and salve that sore, and so the shame was taken away from Israel. And had not this beene: yet if your brevity (which is but a shuffling colour, to make shewe of some things which are not) had beene turned into one yeeres or sea­ven yeeres longity, you could not have shewed, that in substan­tiall points of faith there was variāce among vs. And therfore for that matter you do wel to do as you do, that is, put vp your pipes & make no more noise. Yet I cannot so leave you, but put you in mind cōcerning Protestants & Puritanes, that it is probable that the Controversies which then were; by your slie & secret cōvei­ances were the more forwarded; at the least you Romanistes did your best, by hypocrites and other your naughty instruments to cōtinue them. For the practise of your religion, being of late no­thing else but mischievous policie, your Emissaries were instru­cted at their comming into England to sooth both sides, and to commend them, that so they might persist in their opinions. And heere I shall open to the vvorlde some thing of your cun­ning, [Page 103] vvhich is not knowne to every body. There At Rhe­mes Anno 1579. are cer­taine instructions, vvhich, Doctour Allen in a longe continua­ted speech, (vvhich hee dictated to his auditours, and they in vvriting tooke it from his mouth) did bestovve on such Priests, as vvere then to bee sent from the Seminarie in Fraunce, into England. And these vvere to informe them, hovve they should deale vvith all sortes of people, to pervert them from their faith. Thus therefore hee advertiseth them, If you chaunce to deale vvith a Puritane, you must say vnto him, Truely brother for you, there is more hope then of these that be Protestants, because they for feare of the Prince and the lawe, are ready to say and beleeve any thing, and ther­fore me thinketh they be Atheistes: but for you there is more hope, being either hote or colde. If you deale vvith a Protestant, tell him there is more hope of him, then of such rash brained Puritanes, because they with Religion have put of all humanitie, and civilitie, vvith all other good māners. Who would not thinke that for mischievous devises, this head of Allens, was soone after worthy to be covered with a Car­dinals hat? But by the leave of our Seculars, who strive to magni­fie him, he did not learne this of Saint Peter, but rather of Sir Ni­cholas Machiavel, a man of their good acquaintance. Heere, with our Seminarie Preests, both Protestants and Puritanes were for a purpose honest men; I would that we had cause so to repute of th [...]se Romanists.

9 Now whereas you call the faith which we professe, our Par­liamentary Religion, you are for that tearme behoulding to diverse of your good maisters. For yo [...] chiefe schoole-master Bristow longe since bestowed that phrase on vs, intituling one of his Chapters, Brist. Mo­tiv. 42. The Parliament Church, and Parsons vvho coulde ever readilie enlarge an vntruth; Ward­word ca. 4. saith that Peter Martyr, and Maister Bucer at their comming into England, in King Edvvardes daies, vvere conditioned vvith to teach that Reli­gion, vvhich should bee established by the Parliament approa­ching. It is vvell confessed by him, that our Realme in that Kinges enteraunce, was not so weake in the knowledge of Di­vinity, that they needed to be guided, by any from beyond the seas; but they themselves could search the Ioh. 5. 3. 9 Scriptures, to sifte out what vvas the truth. It vvas not so happie vvith that [Page 104] Conventicle at Trente, whereas it seemeth all the learned men were so simple, that they did nothing but almost verbis concep [...]is from Rome, which gave occasion to that meriment, that the holie Ghost who should have bin President of the Councel, was brought from Rome in a boxe. But the Religion which was then and is now established in England, is drawne out of the fountaines of the word of God, & from the purest orders of the Primitive church, which for the ordinarie exercise therof, whē it had bin collected into the booke of common Praier, by the paines and labour of many learned men, and of mature iudgment, it was afterward confirmed by the vpper and lower house: yet not so, but that the most materiall points, were disputed and debated in the Convo­cation house, by men of both parties, and might farther have bin discussed, so long as any Popish Divine had ought reasonably to say. Holinshed An. 1. [...]. But there in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne, the Antichristian Bishops to their everlasting infamie, & to the per­petuall preiudice of their cause, refused the disputation or confe­rence, and crying creake, for sooke their cause in the plaine field, knowing right well that when Popery must bee brought to the touch-stone of Gods word, it will proove base and counterfeite. And then it being intended, to adde to Ecclesiasticall decision, the corroboration of secular governemēt, according to the aun­cient custome of this kingdome, (as appeareth by An 20. & 25 & 38. R [...]gis. Edvard. 3 Record frō the time of K. Edward the 3.) the Parliament which is the most honorable Court of Christendome, did ratify the same, That so all of all orders and degrees, might be bound to serve the Lord of heaven, not after their owne fancies, but as himselfe had pre­scribed. And that this heretofore hath bin the custome of good Princes, to cal their Nobles and their people to ioyne with them for the establishing of Gods service, every man may know, who will but looke into the stories of the Bible. For there it will ap­peere, that Iosuah. [...]. 2. Iojuah being olde, & minding as farre as in him lay, to perpetuate the sincere service of the Lord, to all succeeding generatiōs, did assemble all Israel, their Elders, their Heads, their Iudges, their Officers, to give consent therto. So did [...] Chron. 28. 1. David, not onely minding to commend to all his subiects, the succeeding of Salomon in the crowne after him, but aboue all things pure Reli­gion. [Page 105] And was not this the course which Asa did take, for the re­forming 2. Chron. 15 9. of those errours, wherwith Gods service was intāgled, when assembling all Iudah and Beniamin to Ierusalem, hee did cause them by an othe of association, and as in way of a stronge covenant, to binde themselves to God, yea and that vnder the paine of death, to flie Idolatrie, and to embrace true piety and devotiō. The like might be saide of other Princes who were god ly. And these meetings no doubt being such assemblies as our Parliament is, or rather being some more generall matter, hee who should have termed their conclusions, a Parliamentary Reli­gion, might have bin reputed no better thē a scoffing enimy. And so may you Doctor Hill be accounted, and Bristow in like sorte: but Persons over and aboue that, may have the name of a slaun­derer, who can glose and invent any thing which may serve for his purpose, as that is that P. Martyr, and M. Bucer were in­dented with all to teach as the Parliament should decree, imply­ing that whatsoever it had bin, they must have condescended vnto it. This lying Iesuite can shew no letter, no Acte of Record, no testimony of semblaunce of truth, to averre this his calumni­ation. But the matter indeed was, that the reformers of Religion heere, intending to level all by the line of Gods word, knew that those two worthy men were so affected in al their teachings; and therefore, as also for their admirable learning & iudgment, they made choise of them before all the great Clerkes which were in Europe. And that those who called them hither, were not decei­ved in them, the excellent monuments which they have lest in writing behinde them, doe testifie to the world.

THIS vnity of Catholikes and discord of Protestants most mani­festly sheweth, that as the Apostles were they for whom our Savi­our prayed to his father, & was heard of him. Holy father keepe them in thy name, whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we also be one, Iohn seaventeene: so they of the Catholike Ro­mane Religion be they, for whom in the words following he prayed, & was heard, Not for them doe I aske only, but also for them which shal [Page 106] beleeve, by their preaching in mee, that all may bee one, as thou father in me, and I in thee, that also they in vs may be one, and heereof it necessarily followeth, that they be of the true Church, for that none but they observe and keepe the Unity, which he obtained [...]or them of his heavenly Father.

10 THese texts did your maister Motiv. 27. Bristow cite, & this argument in expresse words did he frame to your handes, gentle M. Doctor, & you might have done wel, to have added some our place more of your owne reading. But to answere you both togither, this maketh nothing against vs; for we ioyne in cōsent for all material points of the substāce of salvation, not only with our selves, but with all the faithfull and rightly beleeving, which have bin in the world, with the Patriarkes, the Prophets, the A­postles, the Fathers of the Primitive Church, and the Martyrs; neither can you, or the greatest Goliah of your side, ever proove the contrary. Touch any article of our doctrine, or any conclusi­on which wee maintaine, and wee will make it good against you. Staphilus Apolog. [...]. Staphil. himselfe could cite it as the saying of Smideline, that a­mong the Lutherans and Zuinglians, there is no variance of any waight or force, touching any articles of our saith, of Christian Religion. This tale therefore of discord, do you tell to your bleare-eyed follow­ers, who cannot discerne colours: All right beleevers are satisfied for this matter. But on the other side, the agreement which is a­mong you, is but a conspiracie against Christs honour, even such a combination as was betweene Mat. 16. 57 Luk. 23. 12. Herode and Pilate, & Annas and Caiphas, the Scribes, Pharisees, Priests & people, to bring our bles­sed Saviour to the crosse. Your consent is not in God, nor in his sonne Iesus, but to robbe them both of their glory, & to bestowe it on your I doll at Rome. You agree to keepe your Congrega­tions in ignorance, to proclaime your kitchin-warming Purga­tory, to set your Masses & Pardons at sale, to picke mens Sparing discovery of Iesuites. purses by your Iesuitical exercise, to leade thē as bond slaues to hell, & this is it wherin you consent. So that as one did once read Vanity for Unity, in the Psalme, Behold how good & ioyfull a thing it is, bre­thren Ps. 133. 1. [Page 107] to dwell togither in Vanity, so your vnity is vanity, & your cō ­sent is cousenning, tobe guile God & al good Christians, so farre forth as you may. The title of this your present Chapter, might better have bin Vanity & Cousenning, thē Vnity & Consent; for you cōspire to do evil, evē to betray the soules of mē, redeemed with the blood of the everlasting covenant. The text of Ieremy would well fit this your combination. Ier. 11. 9. A conspiracy is found among the mē of Iudah, & among the inhabitants of Ierusalem, They are turned backe to the iniquity of their fore-fathers, which refused to heare my words, and they went after other Gods to serve them: thus the house of Israel & the house of Iudah have brokē my covenāt, which I made with their fathers.

AND surely it cannot proceede but from the Holy Ghost, that all Sacredwriters of the Catholike Romane Church, although being Aug. lib 18. de civitat. dei Cap 41. men of diverse Nations, Times and Languages, yet have so won­derfully consented, & agreed among thēselves, as we see they have done.

11 YOV would make your sily disciples beleeve that this propositiō of yours so frādulently propounded, is con­firmed by S^t. Austen, whose words in the place quoted in your margēt, are as much to your purpose, as if a man being at Barwike, should take S^t. Michaels mounte in his way, to goe see Powles church at Lōdon. If you had but looked the title of that Chapter in Austen, it would have told you that the authour doth there speake, of the agreement of the Canonicall Scriptures a­monge themselves. And if you had read the Chapter, you might have found the drifte to bee, that whereas all the olde Philoso­phers in their opinions and writings dissented eche from other, the pen-men of the Scriptures, being the Secretaries of the Holy Ghost did not vary at all. His words are these, Lib. 18. cap 41 de [...]v. Dei. To cōclude, our Au­thors in whom not without a cause, the Canon of the Holy Scriptures is set & boūded, God forbid that they should dissint among thēselves in any respect. Now wil you be so blasphemous, as to ioyne your broken [Page 108] and barbarous writers, your Schoole-men, Dunces, Friers, with these Oracles of God? for if you do not meane by your sacred wri­ters of the Catholike Romane Church, your Divines and teachers of the Popes rotten Religiō, you speake not to your owne purpose, you abuse your Reader with aequivocation, and your wordes as most Idle do proove nothing at all. But doe your writers indeed of such diverse Nations, Times and Languages, so wonderfully consent, as you speake of? Belike you haue reade but a fewe of them, or else you would see, that many of their tales do hange togither, as their Matth. 26. 60. wordes did, who came to witnes against Christ. I suppose you have heard of a certaine booke, called the Sentences of Pe­ter Lombard. Now I pray you good Sir, is there no where in the margent there, Hic magister non tenetur? Looke in the end of him as he was Ex offici­na lacob, Du-pu [...]s. printed at Paris in the yeare 1573. & there you may finde, that the facultie of Divines at Paris, have condemned for errours sixe and twenty severall doctrines, avouched in the workes of that maister of the Sentences, in the first booke foure, in the second foure, in the third three, in the fourth fifteene. Of these one was, that brute beasts doe not receive the very body of Christ, although it seemeth that they doe, when they devour the Hoste after consecration. And is it not to bee supposed that the Scholers of this great Clerk, did follow their Rabbi in maintaining the same assertions? And if you will looke there farther, you shall see that those Sorbonists were many times troubled, with refuting and censuring diverse doctrines, which were set abroach two or three hundred yeeres since, and that diverse times in the depth of Popery. That little Treatise alone will satifie any man that rea­deth it, that in this your assertion of wonderfull consent, you are wonderfully out. Should not a man thinke that one of your learning, had heard of Thomas Vias Caietanus once Cardinall of Rome, how deepe a scholer hee was, and howe many bookes hee wrote? And did all your Popish learned men, ioyne in vnity of doctrine and opinion with him? How say you to Ambrosius Ca­tharinus no babie among you, who wrote purposedly against him? I had leifer that Sixtus Biblioth. Sanct. lib. 4. Senensis should tell you the tale, because you perhaps will better beleeve him. Having then reco­ned vp the vvorkes of Cardinall Caietane, hee thus subioyneth: [Page 109] Ambrosius Catharinus Arch-bishop of Co [...]psa, of the order of the Prea­ching Friers, did vvrite as vvell against the foresaid Commentaries of the Scriptures, as against the other lesser workes of this man, sixe very sharpe bookes of Annotations or Invectiues, concerning which I leaue to everie man his owne free iudgement. And what maine matters & of great importaunce in Divinity these were, hee vvho listeth to pervse the Bibl. lib. 6. sixth booke of the same Authour, shall see in particular. I mentioned before, that it is not agreed vpon betweene your schoole-men, whither beastes eating the consecrated hoste, do receiue the body of Christ or no. Li 4. Dist. 13. Peter Lombarde saith No. Albeit if hee should be asked, what then the mouse doth eate, hee must aunswere, God knoweth. But Part. [...]. quaest. 80. art 3. Aquinas is resolute, that solong as the sensible elementes doe remaine, solong in the Eucharist it ceaseth not to bee the bodie of Christ, although a mouse or a dogge doe devour it, or it bee cast into the mire. And Part. 3. quaest. [...]5. Alexander de Hales is of the same minde. The maister of the Sentences following Aug. Epist 28 lib. 4. Dist. 1. Saint Augustine, vvho was but a harde father to Infants, did teach that if a childe dyed vvithout Baptisme, it vvente to hell. The Divines of Paris in the Margente, giue him a plaine checke for the same, and our later Papistes, vvill not haue the babe goe to hell, but to the limbus infantum, vvhere their paine is paena damni, and not paena s [...]sus, a vvant of the ioyes of heaven, but the feeling of no torment. Lib. 4. Dist. 11. Peter Lom­barde sayeth, that the Eucharist is to bee received of all in both kindes, but the Session 13 Councell of Constance sayeth that the peo­ple shall haue but onely the breade: And yet Gerardu [...] Lo [...] ­chius a greate Papist, protesteth that they De missa publica pro roganda. are false [...] Catholikes, hinderers of the reformation of the Church, and blasphemers, vvho denye the people the cuppe in the Eucharist. You haue hearde of the difference of your Thomistes and Scotistes, concerning the merite of Congruum and Condignum, the dif­ficultye arising out of that place of Saint Paule, I Rom 8 [...] count that the afflictions of this presente time, are not vvorthy of the glorye vvhich shall bee revealed vnto vs. Can you vntill this day bringe your Dominicane and Franciscane Fryers agreed, vvhither the Virgine Iud Vives in Annot. in August de [...] Dei li. 20. 26. Marye vvere conceived in Origi­nall sinne, or no? The Dominicanes mooved by the au­thority [Page 110] of Aquinas, repute her spotted, the Franciscanes figh­ting vnder the banner of of Scotus, maintaine her to bee free frō all, which assertion of theirs when the Councel of Se [...]. 3 [...]. Basils had ra­tifyed, the Dominicanes except against that, as against a Coun­cell not lawfully called, & the distension continued still so great there about, that Pope Sixtus was faine to interpose his autho­rity in it, by a solemne Decree, commaunding that it should not be disputed of afterward; but let the question yet be moved by any in their presence, and they will be as hote in it, as ever they were. Can there be a mainer article of all your Romish faith, thē the acceptation of the Conc [...]ble or Cōventicle at Trent? And yet the Popish Divines of See the answ to the [...]. Reason. Fraunce do not admit it to this day. Did Pighins and Ferus accord with their fellow Romanists, in so high a question as Iustification by faith alone? If you know any thing of them, you cannot bee ignorant that in that point they are Protestants. Doth De liber. [...] bi [...]r. Contarenus the Cardinall agree with all his fellowes, touching the doctrine of free will. To conclude this Period, your two great Champions for the Pope, Bishop Fisher and Sir Thomas More, could never accord vpon that question, whether ther were water in Purgatory or no, both perverting the text, but the one alleaging that of the Psalme, [...]al. [...]. 11. UUee have gone through fire and water, and thou hast brought vs out into a cooling place, and therefore there must be water there; & the other citing that of [...] Zachary, I have loose thy prisoners out of the pitte wherein vvas no water, which places to die for it, they would not have vnder­stood [...]chr 9. [...]1. Suppli­ [...] of So [...]. of any thing but Purgatory, and that literally too. So there was water in it, and there was no water.

AND lastly it is wonderfull to beholde, howe all decrees of lawfull Councels, and of Popes, doe agree in all pointes of doctrine one with another, although they were made by diverse men, in diverse pla­ces, [...] [...]es, vpon diverse occasions, and against Heresies, not [...] by [...] but oftentimes contrary one to another. This no double [...] of God.

YOu talke here of wonderfull, and me thinketh that it is won­derfull, that your Komish Rabbins will let such fellows as you are, write, and publish bookes of matters in controver­sie. And it is almost as wonderfull, that any English Papist will lay his soule, vpon the credite of such fellowes as you are. And it is a peece of a marveile, whither you taking on you to be a Do­ctour without Divinity, haue read nothing about this businesse, or vnderstood nothing when you reade it, or forgot it since, or what you haue done with it. Of Councels wee shall heare by themselues: but the agreement of your Popes may make a har­mony fit for hell, and the Devill may daunce by it. What mea­neth that of Hist. lib. [...]. Guicciardine, who lived not far from Rome, The Popes by law doe decree, that [...] shall bee lawfull for them to recall all pro­mises and covenants, although they were most firmely made by their Pre­decessours. And may it be thought, that they haue any such De­cree? Let that of Innocentius the 3. to the Archbishop of Can­terbury, determine this Controversie, Decretal. l. 1. Tit. 6. c. 20. Although the Canon of the Councell of Laterane set forth by Alexander our predecessour, doe so per­secute those who are not lawfully horne, that it doth signifie that the electi­on of such is a [...], yet notwithstanding there was not by him taken from vs the power of dispensing, since that was not the intention of him forbidding it, who could not in this respect breede any preiudice to his suc­cessours, who should enioy the like, yea the same power after him, since an equall hath no authority over his equall. What is there in the world, which when one Pope yea by a Councell hath done, may not be reversed by his successour, according to this rule and the reason thereof? Vnto this agreeth that of In vita St [...]han. 6. Platina, who when hee had tolde that Stephen the 6. had taken the body, of formosus his Predecessour, out of his tumbe, and spoiling it of all his Pontifi­call attire, did cut of two fingers of his right hand, and threw thē into Tiber, inferreth this afterwarde, This was a great stirre, and a matter of naughty example, since almost ever afterwarde this custome hath beene observed, that the following Popes doe either infringe, or al­together abrogate the actes of the former. Yet not long after he hath In Serg. 3. againe, that Sergius the 3. not content with the vsage of Ste­phen [Page 112] to Formosus, fel vpon his body a second time, threw it out of his graue, and as some thing vnworthy of buriall did cast it in­to Tiber. The examples of this sort are so many, how one of thē haue raged and revelled against another, as if their predecessours had beene miscreants or rather hell-hounds, as that they might fill vp a pretty story. Which when it cannot be denied, your an­swere must be that these are facts, and not matters of doctrine. Where I might call to your minde, the reversing of the Bible by Clement the 8. which is a matter containing in it the substaunce and foundation of all doctrine, but of that before. Now goe wee a little higher.

13 Virg. lib 2. Acneid. Fands aliquid non fortè [...] pervenit ad aures, that Gregory the first condemned the title of Vniversall Bishop in any man, and called it aprophans [...] appellation? These are also his words, I Li. 6 Epist [...]4. do boldly say that whosoever calleth himselfe the Universall Priest, or desi­reth [...] Lib. 3. E­pist. 80. to be se called, in his haughtinesse doth fore-runne Antichrist, be­cause by being prowde hee preferreth himselfe before others. And yet e­very man knoweth that the Popes since the dayes of Anastas. in vita Bo­nifac. 3. Boniface the 3. haue vsurped that title, and will by no meanes part with it. As now a daies it hath his consequence and dependance, what greater point of doctrine is there in the whole Christiā religion? You might haue heard that there was a long continued contro­versie, between the Curates, or beneficed men of parishes on the one side, and the Friers on the other, whether it were lawfull or expedient for the Church of God, that the Friers should take cō ­fessions, in all places where they came, and preach at their plea­sure, without licence of the Incumbents, or no. 10. Fox in Eccl. Histor [...]. Edw. 3. There were ma­ny learned men who stood stifly against the Friers, as Gulielmus de sancto Amore, and Henricus de Gandavo, and many other [...] yea Armachanus before the Pope and his Cardinals, laid hardly against them. Here one Pope would define it to be good for the Church, that the Friers should be thus suffered; & another Pope woulde decree against them. Their favourers vvere Honorius 3. Gregory 9. Alexander 4. Clemens 4. Boniface 8. Clemens 5. But those who held for the Curates were, Innocentius the 3. Innocentius the 4. Martin the 4. Benedictus the 11. and many Bulles walked about the world, for and against the Friers. There [Page 113] was a great question, whether after the mariage of a couple, the one of them falling into heresie, it might be lawful for the other, to relinquish his or her yoke-fellow, and to mary [...] another. In Cap. Quanto, extra, de Divortijs. & cap. 1. Distinct. 3 [...]. Inno­centius the 3. and Celestinus the 3. gave contrary iudicial senten­ces in this cause, the one permitting to the innocent party to mary againe, the other quite forbidding it. It is not to be imagi­ned but that in the darke time of Popery, many Kings and No­bles and inferiour persons in Fraunce, had Indulgences from di­verse Popes, for their own soules, & for the soules of their friēds & parents; whereby if we will allow the Romane doctrine to be good, it must needs be, that according to the time granted in the Pardō, many a soare soule which had fryed in Purgatory flames, was set free by such favour, as the holy father who had the custo­dy & dispensation of the treasure of the Church, had affoorded them, and then immediately they went to heaven. But when Philip the faire was King of Fraūce, he fell out with the Pope, & having his Clergy & whole Realme vnited to him, he disgraced that Roman Bishop, vilefied him, & exceedingly both abridged, abrogated his power in Fraūce: Pope Boniface the 8. who would cary no coales at any such meane mans hāds, as a King of Fraūce was, cōsistorily revoketh al the Du Haillā. Lib. 13. grants, immunities, Privileges, Indulgences, graces, & whatsoever any of his Predecessors had given to Fraunce or any french. On daunger of your life you must not make doubt, but this Boniface did well, and his sentence must stand. What he bindeth in earth, is bounde in heaven, and what he looseth is loose. Hence then ariseth a question, insinua­ted by Apolog. pro Hero­dot. cap. 40. Henry Stephanus, which I feare that all the Seminary of Doway will hardly be able to aunswere. Whether the Popes sen­tence mustnot stand good: or else whether the soules vvhich had escaped, and were flowen out vnto heaven, were immedi­ately vpon the pronoūcing of that horrible sentence, to retire to Purgatory, frō whence they had come out, by a grace which was now frustrated. How poorely & how pitifully would these soules looke, whē they should so on the sodaine be doffed of their feli­city, which they thought they had as sure as heaven & Angels could make it? This wold make shrewd speaking, in some other thē being in heaven, least also the soules of some other countries [Page 114] should meete with such a bargaine. Thus you see, the Bishops of Rome do not ever say the same things, nor define after the same sorte. And although all these by mee named, be not the graund points of their doctrine, yet their will should not have bin wan­ting even there also, if it had bin for their advantage. They vvho would goe so farre, would have strained a string farther, if they had seene reason for it, But in sooth why should they vary from their mainest grounds? Popery was not so hastily built, that the high Priests of it, should in a wātonnes tumble any of it downe. And it is so concatenated, that destroy one part of it, & you rui­nate a great deale. Therefore their wisest waie was to play N [...] [...] tangere. And to whose vse should they thwart their principal foundations? To the benefite of Christ? No, their plotting was a­gainst him. To the profite of Antichrist, and Sathan his maister? Why, all the world could not devise it in better tearmes then it was. To adde vnto it, they least feared: for that was to streng­then it. But to reverse or deface any of it, was to open a gappe. And why should they once dispute of it, who had by it what they would? for they had almost eatē vp all Christēdome. Their wilest way therefore vvas to keepe their ovvne counsaile, and know when they were well. If they thēselues should in the most capitall matters have fallen out, other honester persons might have come by their goods: And they were not so silte, but to vn­derstand that by knocking togither, some fire might flye out, which easily might set their Babylon on a flame. So it was their good nature, or rather it was the finger of god, which let so much discord be among them, as that good Christiane might see them to bee naught: but vvithall it vvas their vvi [...]te, or rather the cunning of Sathan, that they should looke to the maine chance so long as they could, least the kingdome of that wicked one being Mark. 3 24 divided against it selfe, should quickly bee desolated. And wee cannot blame the Devill, after so long experience, and triall vvhat is good for himselfe, if hee endovour vvith all vigilancy to keepe that in quiet, vvhereof hee had gotten pos­session: And for his servaunts, they being inspired by him were so wise in their generation, as by all meanes to hold that which they had once gained.

[Page 115] 14 YOV see that Vnity is it, which in this third Reason is vrged: but the true substāce of the matter is scant once thought vpon. For what Christian can say, that For a many of men to agree togither, to dishonour God, is a laudable consent? That then which cheefely is to bee looked vnto, is that the agreement be in truth: Otherwise it is no better then a coniu­ration or conspiracy. How did the people hold togither when Ie­remy reporteth of them, that Ier. 7. 18. the children gather woode, and the fa­thers kindle the fire, & the women kneade the dough, to make cakes to the Queene of heavē? What a cōfederacy is that against Gods Church, when the faithful are forced to complaine, Psal. 83. 3. They have taken craf­ty counsaile against thy people, & have consulted against thy secrete ones? And againe, They have consulted togither in heart, and have made a league against thee, The tabernacles of Edom and the Ishmaelites, M [...] ­ab and the Agarims, Geball and Ammon and Amalek, the Philestines, with the inhabitants of Tyrus. Nay doth not David describe such consent to be against Christ himselfe, Psal. 2. 2. The Kings of the earth hand themselves, and the Princes are assembled togither against the Lord, and against his Christ. And this was fulfilled not onely at his death, but at his birth also, when Math. 2. 3. Herode and Hierusalem vvere troubled about him, and a Councell vvas gathered of Priests and Scribes, combining not to honour him, but to destroy him. Of this forte vvas the confluence of the Dan. 3. 2. Nobles, the Princes, the Dukes, the Iudges, the receivers, the Coun­cellours, the Officers, and all the Governours of the Provin­ces, when they came vp to the dedication of the Image, which Nabuchedonosor the King had sette vp. The multitude vvere there of one minde: but it vvas to commit Idolatrie: and one­ly the three children of the Ievvish nation, condescended not to their vvickednesse. I might adde more examples, as that of the Ioseph de bel. Iudaic. lib. 6. 1. seditious at the last seege of Hierusalem, vvho albe­it they sometimes turned their svvordes eche against other, yet in this they agreed, that there vvas not a good or honest bodie in the citie, but they ioyned to vexe or murther him. And as these are sufficient witnesses, that in some evill actions men do concurre togither, and dissent not eche from other, so there [Page 116] have beene sequences, and discents of many ages, wherin whole nations and countries, have with conioyned minds, perpetuated a service to their Gods, the forme whereof was never so much as questioned among them. What correspondēcy of eche to other vvas there among the Ethnickes, vvhen all nations in the most knowne and best habitable world (the Iewes onely excepted) did pray and sacrifice to Iupiter and I [...]o, to Mars and Apollo, or some other like these? and vvhen so vvise a man as Ioseph. lib. 2. contr. Apion. Socrates vvas, did but seeme to extenuate the estimation of those Gods, it cost him his life. It is novve a Cael. Aug. Cur. Sarac. Hist lib. 1. thousand yeeres, since the Arabian Saracens, and those vvho have issued from them, have accepted of Mahomet for the singular Prophet and servaunt of the LORD, and have never dared to make question, much lesse division, about their ceremonies and orders, because Ma­homet vnder paine of death hath inhibited, that his Vives de verit fidci lib. 1. Religion should bee so much as disputed vpon. And (the Persians ex­cepted vvho are vnder another Prince) this standeth good a­mong so many millions, as bee in Africa, or else-where vnder the Turke; neither is there, or hath beene among them of the same profession, the least dis-agreement. VVhence it follow­eth that if vvee should allowe the Church of Rome, so much as shee demaundeth, that is to say, that all thinges vvere caried in the same streame among them, yet it concludeth no more, then for the Ethnickes and Heathens, or for the Mahometans and Saracens, vnlesse they can demonstrate, that their con­ioyning hath beene in verity, and in the inviolable vnity of Gods holie spirite, vvhich if they could averre out of the Scrip­ture which is the touch-stone of truth, they needed not to runne to vncertaine argumentes, and vveake foundations of traditi­ons, customes, and otherlike trashe as they continuallie doc. Their agreement hath beene to sette vp that Idoll of Rome, to robbe God of his honour, to infect and poyson the fountaines of living vvaters, to destroy the soules of the people, and for that reason they are rightlie fitted vvith that of Ezech. 22. 25. Ezechiel, A conspiracie of her Prophetes in the middest thereof, like a roaring L [...] ravening the praye, they have devoured soules, they have taken the riches and precious thinges. A good description of the [Page 117] combination, and concurrence of the Pastours and shepheards of Rome.

15 On the other side whereas it is obiected, that since the plē ­tifull breaking out of the Gospell, and the irradiation of so many parts of Europe, with the glorious beames thereof, there haue ri­sen vp many contradicting the verity of the same, & there haue beene diverse distractions by the whisperings of heretikes; the intelligent Christian Reader may easily perceiue, that this ma­keth not against vs, but illustrateth the truth of that which we de fend: First it hath ever so beene with the Church, when God hath given somewhat more free passage of the Gospel then ordinary: the Mat. 13. 25 good seed is no sooner sowen, but presently the evill man taketh opportunity to sow tares among it, which Parable our Sa­viour in his divine wisedome did speake to this purpose. Where it is not amisse to consider, that the old veteratorious enemy Sa­than, who hath Mille nocendi artes, a thousand devises to do hurt, striveth to bring about his practises by manifold tricks & strata­gems. Here his first & chiefest purpose, as best making way to his darke kingdome of hel, is to keep all in ignorance. If that cannot be, but that he is over-mastred, thē his next study is, by the sword of violent persecution, to destroy the professors of Gods truth. If that will not succeede, then he raiseth vp heresies & distractions, among thē who pretend the same verity: Even vpō the cōming of Christ into the world, Sathan had almost al things at his owne will. The Gentiles were not yet come to the light: the Iewes were wel-neere past it: but neither among the one nor the other, was much faith to be foūd. How did this Beelzebub struggle to keep the world in these termes, whē he would haue had Mat. 2. 13. Christ to be murthered in his cradle, & afterward left him not till he brought him to his crosse? Wel, this would do no good, but for one stēme cut down, their grew vp many young plants, al taking their vital nourishmēt frō the first root. The Rom. 10. 1 [...] sound of the Apostles doctrine, went out through all the earth, and their words into the ends of the world. Here then Sathan being put to his shiftes, turned over a nevve leafe. If he could not stoppe the streame, hee thought he woulde poison it, and therefore sendeth in the Nicolaitanes, Ebion and Cerinthus with their complices immediatly, who shoulde mixe [Page 118] the good graine with cockle and darnell. This was his manner of assaulting at the first. Yet was he not so simple, but to his best po­wer, hee helde his first grounde: Better no Christians at all, then some Christians true and some counterfeit. A second time ther­fore he falleth on the well head, with earnest desire either to dry it or to damme it vp. By Decius and Ualerian and the rest of the bloudy Emperours, he exciteth ten most terrible persecutions, by the which vntil wel neere 300. yeeres after Christ, he thought to have r [...]zed out from vnder the heaven, the name of the em­bracers of the Gospell. And in the intervalla or interstitia of these persecutions, hee did not forget his feates of Heresie, as may bee seene by the Novatians. But after the time by his own counsaile appointed, God was pleased to stey the fury & rage of tyrants, sending that his blessed servant Constantine, and the other Empe­rours, who openly professed for the Christiā faith. And now the floud-gats of the Gospel being so wide set open through a great part of the world, the Devill had his hands & his head too ful to do some-thing which might serve for his purpose. Then grewe immediately such a rabble of Heresies, as is almost incredibles which as it appeareth by that, which formerly hath bin cited out of Epiphani [...] and Austen, so it is more confirmed by the words of Hierome saying thus, Lib. 2. contr [...] [...]ovi­nianum. It is almost foure hundred yeeres agone, that the preaching of Christ doth shine in the world, since which time [...]e­rable Heresies have re [...]e his coate. And yet as I noted before, well neere three hundred yeeres were passed over, in that continued time of persecution. Now amidst these Heresies, vvhat vvarres and dissentions vvere among the Christians, it is not easie to reporte. If the inferiour So [...]om. 6. 25. Clergy, among themselues sell to disa­gree about any thing, it grewe to that stomake, that it ended in some Heresie. And the Bishops when some Socrat. 2. 19. schisme was once a­mongst thē, they kept their bucharist apart, & would not come to the communion e [...]he with other. VVill you in this case heare the testimony of a heathen man, who no doubt recounteth the story with great gladnes, as pleasing him well, & in the endvseth almost the same wordes as the Romanistes doe of some other, VV [...] Am. Mar­cill [...]. l. 22. 3. the Christians did disagree among themselves, [...] su [...]y in­tending to deale vvith them, did call the Prelates and the people int [...] [Page 119] his Palace, where he permitted to every one the vse of his Religion, s [...] meaning to increase betweene them so great discordes, a [...] that they might not be alaid [...]; knowing that beastes are not more deadly minded tovvards beastes, then Christians are to Christians. You may learne heere, frō what schoole-master, the Commen­tar. Relig & Reip. in Gall. Lib 3. Cardinall of Lorraine did take his lesson, when at the conference of Poissy, to thwart M^r Beza and Peter Martyr, and other of that company, he sent for some Lu­theranes out of Germany, who might in the matter of Sacra­ment, have turned their disputations against those of the Religi­on, when as both of them should rather have ioyned against the common enemy. And in the auncient times before spoken of, if we will thinke of private quarrels, what Hier Apo­log contr. Ruffin. Ruf­fin in Inve­ctiv. rancour and bitternes was there betweene Hierome & Ruffi [...]s as also what stomake­fulnesse betweene Sozom. lib. 8. 15. Chrysostome & Epiphani [...], when they parted and never saw eche other againe. Yet to say that among any, or all of these Christians, there was no verity or solidity of faith or Religion, had bin an absurde conclusion, and such a one as our Romanists themselves would quickly deny. There were many who walked in by-pathes, and yet there vvere vvho kepte the right way also. GOD had his Saintes, and Sathan his schisma­tickes.

16 The reason why such heresies did spring vp in the church, was partly to be derived from Gods determinate counsaile, and partly from the malice of our olde deadly enimy. They had both their purposes in it, but the one holy and good, & the other like himselfe full of improbity and impiety. 1 Cor 11. 19. There must bee Heresies among you saith Saint Paule, that they which are approved among you might be knowne. And Contr. hoeres. c. 15. Vincentius Lirinensis telleth vs, that there­fore there be herisies, that the Lord our God may try vs, whether we love him with all our hearte, and all our soule or no. Whe­ther by the authoritie or vvitte of any man, vvee vvill be drawne from the integritie and simplicitie of faith, vvhich is proposed vnto vs in CHRIST Iesus. And to this purpose speaketh Saint Augustine: Epistol 50. Heresies and scandals are foretolde shall bee, that among our enimies vvee may bee instructed, and so both our faith and our love may be the better proved. And else-where he teacheth that a good vse may be made of Heretikes. De vera Religion. cap. 8. Many, that they may see the day of [Page 120] God, Deivel diei. and reioyc [...], are by heretikes raysed out of their sleeps, VV [...] therefore may vse even Heretikes, not that vvee shoulde approve their errours, but that maintaining the Catholike discipline against their trecheries, vvee may bee the more vvatchfull and vv [...], although vvee cannot reduce them vnto salvation. For these and the like in­structions of his people, God saffereth Heresies, rentes and schismes to bee: but Sathans proiect is, by infection to destroy the soules of men, and therefore hee is busie in stirring vp of them; vvhich vvas vvell knovve to Cyprian vvhen he said, De simpli­cit. praela­tor. The Devill did invent Heresies and schismes, vvhereby hee might subver [...] the faith, might corrupt veriti [...], might teare in peeces vnitie. This is the drifte of our auncient adversarie beeing put to his shiftes. Saint Austen speaketh yet plainer, De vtilita­te jejunij. The Devill doth vnderstand that our life is charitie, and our death is dissension, hee sent strifes there­fore among Christians, because hee coulde not frame vnto the Christians diverse Gods, hee multiplied sectes, hee sovved errours, hee erected Heresies, but vvhatsoever hee did, hee made of the Lordes chaffe. And this did hee, immediately after that Constantines raigning had brought peace to the Churches', that good Emperour greeving much, to see Arri [...] and other, so soone by the eares with the Orthodoxe. But Sathan vvas vnvvilling to loose any time, and therefore even at the first bestirred him. Nowe in the darke time of Popery God having beene pleased to determine before, that an 2. Thes. 2. 3 Apostasie there should bee, and the woman should bee with-drawne into the Apoc. 12. 6 wildernesse, and Antichristes kingdome should bee erected, flourishe and dominere, vvhat reason had Sathan, to set men to contende about the foundati­ons of his building? Hee rather cryed, Hab [...] quod [...]olo. I have vvhat I desire. As it is the the efes safety, that all in the house should sleepe, vvhen hee commeth to rifle and robbe, so it was Sathans best contentmēt, that the world should be at rest. By his wil how many ages & secula should have passed over, ere the old heathens should have awaked out of sleepe [...] And how many did there passe over the Petr. Mar­tyr. Decad. 1. [...]. Americanes, & he never made any questi­on, or cast in any bone among them, but let them go on in wor­shipping their Zemes, those horrible spirits of darkenes? I would but know of any man, what Sathan should have gained, to set [Page 121] them at variance about their Religion? If ignorance would kill soules, the daies abounded in ignorance; if superstition would destroy, they had it in great plenty; if idolatrie would doe him a­ny pleasure, they wanted none of that; if security would further him, they had it and made much of it. What could he wish more, when the greatest sort of worldlings daunced after his pipe, and were as glad to come in, as he to open his dores? Hee had doated as I thinke, if he could not have kept his owne counsaile. But in that fault you shall not take him. The care therefore of him and his ministers was, to keepe all vpright, or at least to preserve the ground-worke of his building, and if any of his children at their play did fall out, he closed it vp againe aswell as he could, & had his officers for that purpose. If any other did but baye, or open, against this his setled common-wealth, he vvas not amicus Cu­riae, a friende to the Courte: either bring him to conformitie or Crucifige. So you may behoulde the reason, why in the deepe time of ignoraunce, there was such a confederacy or conspiracy rather, to have all vnder silence. It was like the Iustin. l. 5. Sacra El [...]sina, where nothing might bee reveiled, nothing might bee distur­bed.

17 But when God was once purposed to open the gate of his mercy, and the dore of his truth, the case was altered with the worlds olde maister. As Basile therefore saith of vertue and vice, so Sathan did with verity and errour. De vera virginitate. Where a dore is of vertue saith he, there on either side is set a dore of vice, the entraunces of which are very like to the other of vertue. By which likenesse it commeth to passe, that many a one comming to enter at the right passage, mistaketh the dore, & by a wrong opinion getteth him into the house of vice. Thus did the Devill deale by truth. Onely there is this difference, that for one dore of verity, hee made very many of errour and heresie, and by the mist which he [...]steth before mens eyes, they runne in at the wronge gate in steed of the right. But this is an evidēt Demonstration, that the right dore is now open, that he laboureth so to d [...]sle it, more thē formerly he hath done. For why else would he trouble himselfe, by raysing so many opinions? And this is an excellent argumēt, which was made sometimes by Chrysostome, & serveth fit for our [Page 122] purpose, in these daies. Hom. 33. in Acta. This is an argument that it is a notable do­ctrine, if many dee couunterseit it, and imitate it a for they would not coun­terseit it, vnlesse it were good. And that I will now make manifest vnto you. The ointments which are fragrant, haue many who will adulterate them: but no man by counterfeiting, will [...]bour to expresse him who doth wickedly, but that person who is eminent for his singular life. And this did that holy father vtter, even in the very matter which I haue now in hand, making answere touching the diversity of opini­ons, and the manifold heresies, which in his time were among the Christians. He sheweth it to be an argument of excellencie, and not of badnesse, that many would shrowde their conceites, vnder the name of true religion. I would that our English Pa­pists would weigh this answere of Saint Chrysostomes well, and then they shall finde, that if there haue beene many vp-startes since the time of Luther & Calvine, who vnder colour of their patronage would broach somewhat, whē in very deede they dis­sent frō them, & are cōdemned by them; this doth magnify the verity of those holy mens doctrine, and sheweth the Divels po­licie, to set many to resemble them, that so hee may disgrace the truth, by a multitude of various & independent lyes. What mo­ny coiner was ever so foolish, as to coūterfeit a coūterfeit coine, or that which of it selfe is base? but the purest gold, and most fine mony is that, which lewd persons offer and attempt to resemble. Thus the weakest Reader may beholde the vanity of the Do­ctours thirde Reason, and see that their Vnity is against God, & ours is in God and for Christ: and if there should be difference in actions amongst vs, it is no other thing then was betweene Act. 15. 39. Paule and Barnabas: and if in opinions of great causes, (the foundation being surely held) it is no more then was betweene Gal. 2. 11. Peter and Paule, and Saint August. Epist. 19. Hierome and Saint Augustine de­bating that fact of theirs, and yet the one couple of those vvere Apostles, and the other were great lampes in the Church, even as both the Lutherans and Calvinists as you call them, are in one article dissenting, but both holding Christ crucified, and the mā ­ner of Iustification aright, and al other circumstances belonging therevnto.

18 I had thought here to haue ended this Chapter: but I feare [Page 123] least our Seminarians at Rome, & my adversaaty himselfe should thinke that in so doing, I did not them their right. It is saide be­fore, that in the Papacy there is a generall vniformity in the peace of mens minds, and to be breefe they haue all one heart & one soule. Would a man thinke this, who readeth M. Parsons his Apologie of the Ec­clesiasticall Hierarchy, and subordination in England [...] For to omit all matters before intimated, of the schisme here between the Arch-Priest & Seculars, as also of all The estate of Eng [...]ish fugit. u [...]s. contentions betweene our Eng­lish fugitiues in Italy. Fraunce and the low Countries during her late Maiesties daies, what horrible tumults haue there lately bin, in the English Colledge alone at Rome? Apol. c. 5. There did the students bind thēselues by othe, not to liue any more vnder the govern­ment of the Iesuits. Yea so vehement was the sedition once, that like mad men they did runne out toward the Popes pallace; but from his Holinesse that now is, they were commaunded to retire to their lodgings. They made many seditious sermons against their governours, in the Colledge. In the yeare 1596 when Car. dinall Sega prefixed his letters, signifying his intent, by a Visita­tion to looke into them, they disgracefully tore his letters. A­mong these gallants perhaps was our M. Hill, but then not Do­ctour, but knowne by the name of Thomas Hill Priest, although afterward he, if it were he, cryed Creake for it, and togither with fiue other Priests, was induced to write to Aqua viva the Ge­nerall of the Iesuits, a solemne letter of thankes, because in the yeare 1507. he left father Parsons, to take vp controversies in the Colledge at Rome; And the same May 15. 1597. commendations of fa­ther Persons appeasing all, did Thomas Hill write to D. K [...]on Vice-president of the Colledge at Doway. But yet the Iesuites are not too forward to attribute much credite vnto this Thomas; for it is but a poore testimony, which the Rectour there giveth him; we doe not heart but Hill hath behaved himselfe wel since. But he affirmeth that before time hee was vehement against the fathers, vpon errour and evill informed zeale as may be suppo­sed. I make some doubt whether that Hill mentioned in the Apo­logie be my Doctor, or no; because (as I am informed) there were two in the Seminary called by the name of Thomas Hill. One of this two desiring to be fine, before that he was handsome, would [Page 124] needes in imitation of the Italian Friers, teach his Auditours in his Sermons, how they should fly in a coach to heaven, whereof this coach must bee made, what ones the horses should be that must draw it, wherewithall they must be fed, & such other stuffe, till that his hearers did laugh at his eloquence, and deride his discretion. This later do I suppose to be the Authour of this vo­lume. In all this forenamed controversie I do not much finde a­ny vniformity in the peace of mens mindes, or one heart and one soule. This preaching one against another did shew the contrary ther­vnto. But yet that other preaching long since, did shew it mere, when (as the Waldenses did cōplaine) the followers of the Pope in Confes. Wald. In fascic. rer. expetenda. their sermons did call one another schismatikes, heretikes, sacrilegi­ous, false Prophets, ravening wolues, the beast and whore in the Apoca­lypse. This of all likelyhood did shew diversity and distraction in doctrine. And shall we not imagine that so it was, when thir­teene Benno Card. de vita Greg. 7. Cardinals seeing the Apostasie of Hildebrand, or Pope Gregory the seventh, did depart frō his Communion, that is, would not be partakers of the Eucharist, where he was to communicat. If I should vrge any more examples, it should be of the Iesuites, who are charged, in ordinary practise to dissent from the rest of the Popish Church in Fraunce, in more then fifty matters. Some of them may wel be said to be points doctrinal, as these, Iesuit Cat. Lib. 2. 1. that the Pope is not vnder any Generall or Oecumenicall Councell; that the Pope is Prince of all kingdomes as well in matters temporall as spirituall; that the kings of Fra [...]ce may bee excommunicated by the Popes: that the Pope according to the occasions of matters, may transferre not only king­domes, but the Empire [...]: that Clergy men may not bee iudged by a se­cular Iudge, although they keepe not civill lawes: that the rebellion of a Cleargy man against his Prince is not high treason, because he is not sub­iect to the Prince: that a king may be deposed by the State for tyranny; and if he doe not his duety, when there is iust cause, another may be cho­sen by the greater part of the people; yea th [...]gh they haue sw [...]e perpe­tuall obedience to him: that Iesuits admit of the Councell of Trente. These with their circumstāces are high points of doctrine, main­tained and defended by the Iesuits, but oppugned by the Pa­pists of Fraunce, and other nations which are not Iesuited, so that now they may in these respects, haue safely more bels then one [Page] ring to their Sermons, contrary to that which Staphilus woulde haue taught Smideline, when he said thus, Apolog. Fridir. Sta­phyl. S [...]deline should learne of the parish Clerke, why when he ringeth to Sermon, he ringeth but one [...]ell, but to E [...]song or Service he ringeth many at once, both great and [...]ll. The ringing [...] bell to Sermon repres [...]th the Unity of the Catholike faith taught at Sermons, which ought to be but on [...] and vni­forme in all men. [...]t the [...]angling of many diverse bels to co [...] praier, signifieth the diversity of men, some praying fervently, some coldly, some serving God one way, some another. The difference of the Iesuits frō other Papists, will safely permit them to ring to their Sermons, more [...] then one. And so I come now to the next Chapter.

IT [...] most pl [...]ne and manifest, that all [...] which ever belee­ved in Christ, were first converted to his [...] by such, [...] either [...] precisely sent, or [...] the least wise had their authority from the [...], which lived in the time in which they were con [...]rted. [...] thing is [...] set dow [...] in the History of the first conv [...]rsion of every countrey, as no Protest [...] vvere [...] [...]ver so [...] [...].

1 TO deale favourably with you, and not to answere you as in this place you deserue is there any man of tolerable learning, or any whit seene in the Ecclesiasticall story, who doeth not heere thinke that you want some body, who may not on­ly exagitate you, but exco [...]te you also? when, as if you were become some A­quaviva or General of the Iesuits, you so and aciously giue downe such generall propositions, not onely farre from truth, but much estraunged from the very shewe and semblance thereof. I do lesse pity you, because the farther I goe, the more I perceiue you to be a sworne servant to Antichrist, & therfore there is nothing which may advance your masters cre­dit, but you a [...] devoted to him, must say it & do it. But in my ve­ry bowels I pity, & take compassiō of divers my bewitched coū ­treymen, sily women and young fondlings, who receiving from you such stuffe; so boldly & asse verantly averred, haue not the skill to discover you, nor the grace to repaire vnto such, as may lay open the Ambuscadoes and snares, which you haue prepared for them. Where there needeth no other proofe to descry this your dealing, then to obserue, that in this your so potent and pu­issant challenge, you cite not one author, you name not one par­ticular, you single not out the Pope, you point not out the coun­trey, you assigne not the preachers by whom it is done, you men­tion not the time, nor yeeld vs any reason wherefore you do say it, but only this that you doe say it. Wherein you over-lash be­yond the most that ever wrote on your side; for other assumed somewhat, but you throw at all; and losing haue nothing to pay. The Iesuites whom afterward you commende in this Chapter, doe not vse to extenuate their holy Fathers commendation, but to set it as high as may be: and Controv. cap. 2. [...] Wats. Quodl. 8. 4. Costerus among thē being one, who had a [...] deale more reading, and learning and iudgment, thē you seeme to haue, pretermitting (as he telleth vs) the Chur­ches [Page 127] of the East and of the South, saith, it is certaine that Germa­ny and Fraunce were first converted by such as Peter sent. And afterward he would bring in the kingdoms of England & Scot­land as brought to the faith, by the successours [...] Peter in the see of Rome; and to those he addeth Africa, meaning as [...] should seeme some pa [...] thereof, lying neere to Italy: for hee himselfe al­lo [...]h Aethiopia to Saint Matthew, and Aegypt, Libia, & the Africanes there about to Simon, and Saint Marke the Evange­list. But the conversion of Spaine he [...] S^t. Iames: of Thracia and Scythia Europ [...] [...]o Saint [...] o [...] Scythia A­siatica to Philip, of Armenia and the hither part of India to Bar­tholomew, of Parthia, Media, Persia, [...], the Brach [...]ane & Bactrians vnto Thomas, as also the farther part of India; which is yet beleeved in that coūtrey, as Osor. de­gest. Eman. lib. 3. Maff Hist. Iudic. lib 2. appeareth by such as haue writ­ten the navigations of the Portingales into those partes. And at these things are witnessed by some of the old writers, so Eccl Hist. lib. 3. 1. Eusebi­us hath this farther, that Asia fel to Iohn the Evangelist, meaning Asia the lesser or Natolis, but that Peter as it seemeth did preach the word to the Iewes, who were 1. Pet. 1. 1. dispersed in Pontus, Gal [...]tia, [...], [...] and Asia.

2 Thus in the time of the Apostles, the greatest parte of the known world had heard of the faith of Christ, & in some good measure embraced it: that being verified, that Rom. 10. 1 [...] their sound that is the Apostles went out through all the earth, and their wordes into the ends of the world, and Christs Prophecie being fulfilled, that Mat. 24. 14 the Gospell of the kingdome should be preached through al [...] [...] world for a [...] ­nes vnto all nations, and then should the end come, which was done be­fore the destruction of Hierusalem, that Vers 34. generat [...] beeing not yet passed, which lived in Christs time. And this is so vndoubted a truth, that Costerus saith, The Controv. cap 2. Catholike Church as first was propa­gated by the Apostles themselues, almost through all knowne countreyes. Now all this while there was no Pope; and if it should bee obie­cted (as no other shift there is in the world, and that is but a sim­ple one) that Peter as Pope sent the rest of the Apostles, some to this place, some to that, I require one text o [...] scripture to bee shewed, or one monument of antiquity to be produced, which maye confirme so much. It is not vnlikelye, but that the [Page 128] Apostles in some assembly at Hierusalem did consent, what regi­ons each of them should betake themselues vnto: but that any one did appoint to the rest their charges, we no where find. Nay plaine it is that Peter himselfe, had his portion assigned him, to preach to the Gal. 2. 7. Iewes, as Paule had to preach to the Gentiles, which was the greater charge. And whither this were appropri­ated to him by God, as the text seemeth well to encline, or whi­ther by the consent also of the Apostles; Paule had his Commis­sion in the same manner; which he so little thinketh inferiour to the others, that he Ibidem. nameth it before Peters, and standeth vpon ver. 8. & 9. tearmes of equality in power, and fellowship in action. But that I may force the authour of this libell to say, Penne thou writest vn­truth, Samaria received Christ, by the preaching of Act. 8. 5. 14. Philip, be­fore that Peter knew of it, and the 27. Eunuch of Aethiopia on the way, was in like sort brought to religion by the same Philip, and he went home immediately, and planted the faith in his Coun­trey (as Eccl Hist. Lib. 2. 1. Eusebius sheweth) which was done without Peters pri­vity: for a good space after that, hee made doubt, whither the Gentiles might haue the worde opened to them, vntill that by a vision Act. 10. 10. from heaven that scruple was removed. And I pray you was there nothing done by Saint Paul, whose authority was im­mediate from Galat. [...]. 1 God, & not frō man, he beeing not set on worke from other, but receiving his commission from Iesus Christ him­selfe? The history of whose labours in turning men to Christ, al­though Saint Luke doth particularly relate in the Actes of the Apostles, yet for brevity sake we will looke to one place only, of his owne testimony; and he saith that Rom. 15. 19 from Hierusalem, & rounde about vnto Illyricum, he caused the Gospell of Christ to abound. And to take away all pretence of obiection he addeth, that he preached the Gospell where vers. 20. Christ was not named, least hee shoulde haue built on another mans foundation. If these things be so plaine as no Christian can doubt of them, blush and blush againe at such des­perate audaciousnesse, as maketh no conscience, egregiously to faine.

TRue it is that Heretikes have corrupted such as were Catholikes before, but that they ever converted any Heathen Nation to Chri­stianity, can never bee shewed. I know very well that Iohn Calvine to get glorie, sent certaine of his Ministers into nevve-founde landes: but I never coulde heare that any of them converted so much as one sily vvo­man to their Gospell in those partes. The trueth is, their agreement in doctrine vvas so greate, that one destroying anothers buildings, they be­came laughing flockes to the Heathens, and so vvere glad to depart with shame.

3 THAT Heretikes haue corrupted such, as were weaklings or discontented persons, is true: and may well bee exemplified in your broode per­verting diverse credulous and indiscreete folkes, from their o­bedience to God and their Princes: but they are not sounde Catholikes, or vvell setled and grounded in the faith, who will listen to you, or any seducer. And if there bee any heathen nation vvhich hath hearde of the name Christ by you, and your polluted Christianity; it is most certaine, that it hath bin by Heretikes, the servauntes and attendantes of the whore of Babylon, beeing a hundred waies infected with heresie; and the vvhole body of Popery where it differeth from vs, being no­thing else but a masse of abhominable heresie. But vvhere-as you say that Calvine sent some of his Ministers into the nevve­founde lande, if you vnderstoode your selfe in this, which like a Parret you speake from other men, and know not what it mea­neth, the Io. Leriu [...] in navigat. in Brasil. ca. 1, 2, 6. viage into Brasile in the yeare one thousand fiue hun­dred fifty & fiue, was the original worke of Villagagno a Knight of Malta, who pretending himselfe to be religious, & seeing the persecution, which at that time was vsed in France against Gods children, vnder K. Henry the second, gaue out in words that hee [Page 130] would search out a place in the newe-found VVesterne vvorld; whither persecuted Christians might flie out of Fraunce, Spaine and other countries. And for this purpose hee had ayde of Cha [...]llion, that worthy Admirall of Fraunce, who was after­ward sl [...]ine at the An. 1572. Massacre in Paris. And whereas by his let­ter, Uillagagno had made request to the Church of Geneva, to send with him or vnto him, diverse Ministers of the Gospell, they at his entreary condescended therevnto, and some went: who as especially they desired to prepare a place for their afflicted country-men, whereof at that time many were burnt for Reli­gion, so their next intendment was, to vse their best meanes to convert the Barbarians vnto the faith of CHRIST. And when diverse of the Ministerie leaving their countrie, kinred, and that estate which they had in Fraunce, were come thither with those resolutions, they never dissented in the least pointe of the [...] doctrine. But Uillagagno like a notable Hypocrite, to­gither with a Popish Priest of his, one Cointas, (who had be­fore abiured Popery there, as also the Generall voluntarilie had done) relapsed to their vomite, evill entreated their Mi­nisters by all meanes that they could devise, set the companie vpon a mutinie, and forced such as lost not their lives there, to returne to their country, when they had scant spente one yeare in those partes, and that full of vexation, by reason of their Conductours perfidious falshood. This was the reason, where­fore that viage sorted to small purpose; and not the discorde of the Ministers. And this wicked practise did arise from the Car­dinall of Lorraine, who either in secret before the departure of Uillagagno, or afterward by letters drewe him to Apostate from his faith, [...]s Lerius who was there in presence, and reporteth the specials of all that viage, and their Generals vsage there, doth amply remember. And that this was the true cause of their re­turne, wee neede not appeale to any of our men, fince Costerus the Iesuite will tell it thus, ^u The Calvinistes not many yeares agone, Contro­ver. cap 2. did attempt to bring in their errours to the people of India and Peru, but by the [...]ide of CHRIST, and by the industrie of the Catholikes they were excluded. Indeede the Cardinall of Lorraine be stirred him­selfe in that businesse, being so bitter an enimy to the Gospell [Page 131] of CHRIST, that hee could not endure, that the French­men should have it at home or abroade, least belike multitudes of them should have left their countrie, and built Colonies else­where. So he cared not what losse or dishonour the kingdome of Fraunce had, so there might be no Sanctuary, or refuge for those whome hee reputed heretikes, dealing as honestly and faithfully therein, as Steven Gardiner while hee lived, and after­wardes other of the Cleargie, did with Caleis in Queene Ma­ries time: which towne they vnderstanding to be the recepta­cle of many good Christians, fled out of England for their con­science; were so averse from regarding, repayring and supply­ing it, that the French discrying the weakenesse thereof, by at­tempting it both sodeinely and subtilely, & afterward pursuing their enterprise fearcely, did get it from the English. Such was the blessed minde of that Machiavellian Cardinall, whome GOD Commen­tar. Relig. & Reip. in Gal. Lib. 13. remembred at the last, suffering him by a colde (which he had taken by going barefoote, and whipping himselfe for his lascivious sinnes) to grow first into a fever, and then into a mad­nesse, which sent him raving, and foolishly speaking, to re­ceive his iudgement. The Queene mother as ashamed that Ahitophel shoulde proove Nabal, caused it to bee reported a­bout the Courte, that the man went to GOD, in most sweete meditations; but the other was so evident, that every bodye laughed at the simplicitie of their devise, who would have that covered, which the Lorde had shewed of purpose, that every ones 1. Sam 3. 11. eares who heard of it might tingle.

BVT who knoweth not that the Catholikes as they have converted all to Christianity that ever were Christians: so in this age they have brought infinite numbers to the Christian faith in the East & VVest Indies, by the meanes and labours of the most happy and holy fa­thers of the holie Order of S^t. Frauncis, of S. Dominicke, and of the blessed Society of Iesus, which blessed Religious men in our owne Country there of England, onely in regard of their sacred function are executed as Traitors. And have not these I pray you their authority from Rome?

4 THE vanitie and vnwisenesse of this asseveration; I haue plentifully shewed before. But heere I do adde, that there is scant any Country whose Au­thenticall Recordes doe proove, that your Romanistes (for these you must meane, as in your former speech) brought first the faith vnto them. Of Italye, Fraunce and Germany I vvill say nothinge: let them aunsvvere for themselves; but vvee English men may best speake of England. Bristow Mo [...]v. 17. Some Papistes haue saide it that Augustine the Monke vvas the first, vvho brought the faith into England by Gregories meanes, and ther­fore they doubte not to call him our Apostle. Let it bee that some Saxons first receaved by him Baptisme; yet who behol­deth not in Bed [...] Eccl. Hist. lib. 1. 7. 8. writing that storie, that Christianitie had bin in Britaine long before? There were then Brittish Bishops who well knewe the faith of CHRIST, and liked Lib 2. 2. not of Austen for the pride which they saw to bee in him. But long before this, was the name of Christ knowen in this Iland, Bed Hist. 1. 7. Albanus being heere martyred, Helena the mother of Constantine the Great be­ing Huntingt. Histor. lib. 1. borne heere as it is storied, and Pelagius the heretike against whome Saint Austen the Bishop of Hippo wrote, beeing of this country. Bed lib 1▪ 10: So that it is but a toy, that Gregories Monke was the first that ever brought Christianity hither. The wiser sort of Pa­pists, having it out of Lib: 4. 19: Monumetensis, who long since was branded for a [...] in pro [...]m: Hist [...]r: fabulous writer, and frō Lib: 2: c: 21 Freculphus who was one of some better credit, say that King Lucius of Britanny, about the yeare of our Lord 180. did send to Eleutherius the Bishop of Rome, & from him had some sent in, who baptised him & his people. This so overthrowing that other opinion concerning Austen, is ordi­narily taken vp among our Romanists thēselves, in so much that M. Watson in his Quodlib: 814: Quodlibets, nameth for preachers of Christ, Fugatius & Damianus, supposed to be sent hither by [...]: 4: 19: Eleutherius, amōg the old Albion Britains, & Saint Austen amōgst the English Sax­ons, of whō we all came. But as touching that of Elentherius, the [...]. Fo [...] in Hist: Eccles: let­ter [...]owe extant as sente from King Lucius vnto him, is rather [Page 133] for a Copy of the civil and Imperial lawes of Rome, to bee sent vnto him into England, then for any thing else there mētioned. I may not therefore heere forget, that it is receaved for a veritie, that yet long before the daies of Lucius and Eleutherius, the seede of the Gospell was sowen in Britaine, evē in the prime age of the Apostles, by Ioseph of Arimathea; which by the Iesuite Controv. cap. 2. Costerus is not concealed when he saith, For men vvill have, or they say, that Ioseph of Arimathea in the Apostles time was in England, and that Simon the Leaper didgovern the Church Cenomanensis in Fraunce. And to manifest that this is verie probable, it shall not be amisse brieflie to cite such reasons, as Maister Eccle. Histor. l. 2. Foxe hath collected, to shewe that the Britaines had receaved CHRIST, before the daies of Eleutherius and Lucius, vvho lived about the yeare of our LORD 180. First hee citeth out of De victor. Aure [...] Am­bros. Gildas, that in the yeare 63. Philip the Apostle sent Ioseph of Arimathea hither out of Fraunce, and he first laide the foundation of Christian Religi­on. Secondly out of Tertullian, that Contr. Indaeos. the places of the Britaines which were inaccessible by the Romans, were subiect to Christ. Thirdly out of Homil. 4. in Ezech. Origene specifying that since the comming of Christ, Britaine did consent to the knowledge of the onely God, and both Ter­tullian and Origene, hee reputeth to bee, before the time of Eleu­therius a little. Fourthly out of Bede Histor. Eccl. l. 5. 22. signifieth that the Bri­taines in his time, especially such as had not conformed them­selues, a little before to the Romane fashion, did keepe their Ea­ster after the manner of the East Church. Fiftly out of Petrus [...] writing to Saint Bernard, and affirming that the Scots kept their Easter in the same manner, which sheweth that all the partes of this Ilande were brought to CHRIST, by some who came out of the East; or else the ceremonies should have beene planted after the fashion of the VVesterne Church. Sixtly out of Lib. 2. 40 Nicephorus, affirming that Simon Zelotes brought the Gospell into the Iles of Britaine. Sea­venthly Epistol. ad Eleuther. from Lucius himselfe, vvho plainely signifieth that hee had received CHRIST, before the sending to Eleutherius for the Romane Lavves. These reasons collected by Maister Foxe are more of force, then the slight testimonies of such late vvriters, as may mistake one thing for another, the sending for [Page 134] of the Imperial lawes, to be to call for the faith of Christ. But ad­mit it were thus, and we should yeeld to the conceipt of these la­ter authors, what maketh this for them, or against vs? Since the words of the Apostle Paule may be vsed in this behalfe, 1. Cor. 14. 36. Came the word of God out from you? that is to say, were you the first citty whence the Gospell was derived? was it Rome it selfe that had it originally? or was it not rather converted, by that which came from Ierusalem? That cittie in Iudea was the fountaine of all, & therefore if any place should be respected for that which is past, Hierusalem shoulde bee renoumed, and magnified even of Rome it selfe, and of all other, because from thense all prima­rilie, (albeit some mediately and some immedi [...]tely) sucked the doctrine of the Christian faith. But as our Papistes in this case make no account of Hierusalem, since the glorie both in­ward and outward thereof is decayed, so wee make as little reckoning of Rome, which is so vtterly swarved from the puritie of that profession, which it had not onely in the time of the Apostles, but even of Eleutherius, that vix Terent. in Eunucho. cognoscas cand [...]m esse. VVee can in no sorte discerne it to bee the same.

5 VVhat a harvest your Dominicane and Franciscane Friers have made in the Indies, I deferre to recount till I come to the nexte Chapter. Onely heere I tell you, that vpon vncon­troulable warrant wee finde not, that almost any man of worth, for learning, wisedome, warfare or government, hath by his conversion given any testimony to Christendome, of the good which your Friers have done among the Indians. You please your selues with fancies, and mulus mulum scabit, one of you doth falsely trumpet the praises of another. If you be such con­vetters, why goe you not into Africa, into the kingdomes of Ma­rocco and Fez, to Tunis or Argier? From Spaine or Italie, the di­stance is not much to these. Or why do you not crosse the Adri­atike sea, & step into Grecia or Morea? why traveile you not far­ther to Constantinople, Tripoly or Aleppo to winne men from Mahomet, which is so much the easier, because all these Turkes & Saracens admit of some Positions belōging to the Christiā faith, but the Indians accept of none. Truth it is, that vnto these places, [Page 135] other nations of Christendome for trafficke do resort; and there­fore if you should report any vntruth cōcerning these, you would quickly be disproved. But far traveilers may say more then ordi­nary men, and for that cause you tell vs a tale of the Indies, and some of your men say that there they cast out Devils also. They do wel to lay it in places so distant [...] for although they egregiously faine, yet we shal hardly take them tripping: it is no ready worke to convince them. But wee imagine that your attemptes for conversion, may have the same successe in the East and VVest Indies, as the offer of your Maff Hist. Lib. 1. Portingale Priestes and Friers had in Congo, where adventuring vpon verie small acquaintance, to baptize the king and the inhabitantes, the most part as your Historiographer saith, (but it is to be feared that all) quickly re­nounced Christianity, & returned to their heathenish wallow­ing in the mire. They disliked not the first principles of the faith, neither the Ceremonies therein, but when they were called vpon to leave their grosse vices, as adultery and witch­crafte and seeking to Devils, to remitte iniuries, to restore thinges vniustly taken each from other, they would not endure these exhortations, but like reneging Apostatas they became as before. And of likely-hood so it fell out frequently with the Spanyards in America, where they Petr. Mar­tyr. Decad. 3. 10. were exceeding nimble in administring baptisme, to those who knewe very little. Had it not beene fit, that before the Sacrament had beene imparted, the Infidels should out of Gods booke largely haue heard of ma­ny thinges? which course Iohn the Baptist did take, preaching repentaunce; Math. 3. 2 and that woulde well have tryed them before hande, and so Gods name might not haue beene dishonour­ed, nor Baptisme abused, nor the people made the worse, nor the Priest never the better. Doth not the true Church of Christ gaine much by such titulary bargaines, and is not Gods king­dome much increased through it? And yet doubtlesse such good matches your Friers also make in the Indies, but especially in those of the East, where the inhabitants have more witte, and your messengers have lesser power. And if it bee so and no o­therwise, yet with vs heere in Europe, all these must goe for good Christians, and if there bee a score of such Nu [...]s [Page 136] Christians, wee shall heare of fiue hundred. So much may a tal [...] growe in co [...] so [...]. And the reporters speake for their owne reputation, and therefore without questioning you must beleeue them.

6 But I cannot chuse but heere smile, at the vertuous ti­tles vvhich you bestovve vppon the Iesuites, vvhen you call them the blessed Societie of Ies [...], and th [...] blessed religious men. Hovve gladlye vvoulde you clavve them, vvho perhaps late­ly at Apolog. of the Arch­priest [...]c a. 5. Rome did clapper-clavve you? And albeit you be now got to bee a Doctour of Divinitye, yet since it vvas certaine­lye against their Answere to the Ma­nifestat. c. 1 vvilles, you are vvith them but in nature of a Probationer, and an eye is c [...]rryed over you, so that if once againe you exorbitate from the rule of your superiours, haue at you for an olde grudge. Since your comming into Englande, to the ende that you maye deserue better of your good Lordes the Iesuites, you haue set out this present Pam­phlet; yet the colde commendation vvhich vvas vpon you, continueth still, leaving an imputation of vveake iudgemente in you by your credulitye, and of heate and rashnesse in your apprehensions and contentions. Yet novve standing vpon your triall, there is some hope that the tongue which former­lye you exercised vpon these iollye Iesuites in the Colledge at Rome, shall bee turned against your King and Countrey, that in time you also may bee if not a Iesuite, yet one of those bles­sed men, vvho having their authoritye from Rome, and not from heaven, from Antichrist and not from God, maye bee entertained as a T [...]ytour. You beginne pretty vvell, and if you holde on but a vvhile, and increase as you desire, you may deserue such a prefermente. The Iesuites as you tell vs haue their authoritie from Rome, not from Iesus, and vvhat a forge of mischiefe that Rome hath beene against Englande, he is blind who doeth not see. Sand. de Schismat. Thence came the sentence against King Henry the eight. Thence was continuall hatred derived against our late Soveraigne, from the day of her birth, vntill her dissolu­tion from this mortalitie. Thence came the excommunication by Pius the fift, the declaration of the same by Sixtus the fift, the ratification of it by Clement the eight, if the Spanish Generall in [Page 137] An. 1601: Ireland did vvitnesse a truth. Hence came the Conspiracy of one Noble man, nowe acknowledged by Catena in vita pij 5. him who vvrote the life of Pope Pius the fift, the insurrection of other Nobles, the at­tempts on Ireland in the Lord Grayes time, the incouraging and ayding of the vincible fleete in the yeere 1588. the late tumults in Ireland, besides such infinite proiects by Ballarde, Parrhy, Lo­pez, Squire, and such infamous varlets, to destroy her vvho vvas the most famous and renoumed Prince of Christendome. These thinges vvere sufficient, to cause the honourable Councel, and chiefe Magistrats not to sleepe, but as with eies opened towarde you: And if vvisedome vvill say Virgil. Aen. 2. ab vno disce omnes, or ex vn­guibus leonem, pretende you as long as you wil, that the Iesuits are heere executed for their sacred Function, vvee haue reason not to doubt, but somevvhat more there is in it. He who wrote the Iesuites Catechisme in French, as he hath many memora­ble matters, touching the sweete and sacred vices of these vn­blessed and irreligious Fathers, so hee hath some thing touching Englande, as that Lib. 3. 3. Parrhyes attempt in the yeere 1584, And Cap. 4. Squires in the yeere 1597, was plotted, incouraged and abet­ted by the Iesuites, as hee sheweth by the whole processe of it. These devises can bee the execution of no function which is ho­ly, vnlesse you will take it to bee holy after the Devils fashion. And may it not vvell bee supposed, that they vvho vvere so vvickedly affected tovvarde our last Soveraigne, vvill carrye the same minde tovvarde our present King, the mirrour of all Princely vertues, vnlesse the everlasting blessing of God, and prudent fore-fight otherwise do restraine them? VVhat loue this Iesuiticall crewe doeth beare to his Highnesse, let that one thing in steede of all testifie, that they combined abroad, and to their best plotted at home, to bringe a Spanish Princesse the Infanta into that throne, vvhich by all righte divine and hu­mane belonged to his Maiestie, as the indubitate heire to the Imperiall Crownes of these kingdomes of England and Ireland. This intendment of theirs, is as cleere as the noone day, by Doleman▪ Per­sons his booke of Succession, by the vrging of the Studentes in the Seminaries to subscribe to the Spanishe title, if it were but in blankes, by the frequent charging of the Iesuites there­with, [Page 138] in the late books of the Secular Priests, & their Assistants; vnto all which the Authour of the Apologie and Manifestation, doth not so much as faintly, & for a fashion, giue the least denial. We doubt not therefore but his most illustrious Maiesty, will be circumspect against such vipers, and that his Highnesse conside­reth the fruits of them, and their doctrine in Fraunce, the mur­ther of King Henry the third, the animating of Paris and so ma­ny great citties to rebellion against the puissant King nowe reg­nant, the attempts of sasuit. cat. lib. 3. 6. Peter Barrier, and Cap. 8. Iohn Chastell (by the le­suites meanes) to commit murther and parricide vpon his royal person, besides all the doctrine which they haue of the want of E­ [...]ds, to slay Kings whome they holde tyrauntes, of the Popes 'power to excommunicate Princes, and to absolve subiectes from the oath of their alleageance, of all Cleargie men in a kingdome exempt from the chastise­ment and governement of the temporall or Civill Monarke, and onely subiect to the Bishop of Rome, the verity of which points hee may at large see, who will reade that little but excellent treatise, Le Fra [...]c Dis [...]rs. Their vow of blinde obedience to their Superi­ours, their position of ordine ad Deum, their rule of propter bonum societatis, will inferre any varletry, traiterousnesse, vilainy, or im­piety in the worlde, bee it whatsoever. Lastly the experience which is had of them, doth manifest that they are like the olde Pharises, of whom Antiquit. lib. 17. 3. Iosephus could say, that they were aprowde ge­neration and dangerous vnto Kings; for they entred Polony, and Quodlib. 3. 7. straight there followed vpon it a rebellion against their Sove­raigne, they haue beene the meanes that Ies. Catec. lib. 3. 16. Stephen Batori novve king of Poleland, is thrust from his ancient kingdome of Swe­den, & the whole life of the activer sort of them, being nothing but a Quodlib. in praefat. tampering in state causes, and Princes affaires, their feli­city is to set the Realmes where they come into a combustion. If then for these and the like reasons, the King of Fraunce pro­fessing for the Romish faith, hath by solēne Edict banished these Iebusites out of his kingdome, and that on paine of death, and they are not harboured in his Realme, but only in Burdeaux and Tholouse, which is to be hoped will also shortly bee redressed; is it to be wondered, that our kingdome professing the reformed religion, & being England which of old could endure no wolues [Page 139] should abandon this lewde Society? It might rather be reputed a singular weakedesse, in so wise and vigilant a State, as God bee praysed this is, if there should not be provision made to keepe out such Caterpillers, or rather Foxes and Beares, who come to destroy the flocke, and insteed of converting of countries wher­of you speake, intende the perverting of consciences, and tur­ning them from that due obedience, which they owe to the Al­mighty God of heaven, and to his Vice-gerent here amonge vs. It hath pleased the Lord long agone, to open the eies of our Go­vernours, to see the drifts of these men, and wee are to pray that their heartes may ever bee inspired, to see the execution of such wholesome lawes, that some may take the Cant. 2. 15 Foxes, the little Foxes which destroy the Uines, that is to say, such body-killing, & soule­murthering spiritual enemies, who destroy many a weake womā and vnadvised rash young man.

I will not here speake of the infinite number of Miracles, wrought by Catholickes in conversion of Countreys, and namely of those which are now done in both the Indies, by the holy Fathers aforesaide, for that I reserve that matter for his proper place: but I would advise you here di­ligently to weigh the sequele of the Assertion of the Protestantes: howe that if Papistes be not true Christians, and of the right religion then doth it necessarily followe, that neither Spanyards, nor Portingales, nor Sardi­nians, nor Sicilians, nor Italians, nor Germaines, nor Transylvanians, nor Hungarians, nor Polouians, nor Danes, nor Flemmings, nor Scots, nor Irish, nor English, no nor any Nation vnder heaven had ever true Reli­gion, before Frier Luther maried Moune Bore, before Iohn Calvin run away to Geneva, before Peter Martyr with his Fustolugges came to teach at Oxford, and before a number of such like good companions, ledde only by sensualitie and carnall zeale dishodded themselues and became such spectacles to the world as every mā knoweth. Which thing to affirme is flatly to denie Christ, and all Christianity, as I shewed in my first Rea­son.

YOur mounstrous Miracles you put over to another Chap­ter, and thither (God willing) I will follow you, so that in good time you shal heare of mee. The foolishnesse and ridiculousnesse of this your other assertion I have Answere to the 1. Reason. already ma­nifested: but heere you are disposed to commemorate the nati­ons of Christendome, although to small purpose well I wote, (vnlesse you would haue vs note that you put the Spaniards first, and the English last.) For if you have named the French also, & the Bohemians, & Muscovits & Graecians, we must answere you that among these or so many of these, as it seemed good to the divine Providence, there was true Religion; and yet the grosser sort of your Papistes had none of it, albeit some touched with some smal staines of Popery did belong to Gods kingdome. And these were not only before the birth of these excellent men whō you name, but in all ages since Christ his time. VVherefore your bold talking heere, is no better then idle trifling. That Doctour Luther was a Frier and his wife a Nonne, wil be easily granted vn­to you; but in a Christian mans vnderstanding, what more preiu­dice is therin, then that Exod. 2. 10 Moses for a time was brought vp as the sonne of Phara [...]s daughter, or that Act. 23. 6. S^t. Paule was a Pharisee, or that Luk 82. 3. Mary Magdalone was agrievous sinner, or Luk. 19. 1. Zacheus the maister of the custome? It was no fault for Gen. 19: 12 Let to come out of Sodome, neither is it to be blamed, that any hastē out of Apoc: 18: 4 Baby­lon. But the greese is that he a Votary did mary her a Votary, which Campians malice so expresseth, Ration: 3: d [...]ec incesto [...] votam Deo virginem f [...]sset, and this quarrell you have also against many other rare instruments of Gods glorie. But if you wil looke to that where your eie [...] ought to be set, the true fault was, that in their younger-daies beeing swayed by the course of those times, they had without mature iudgment taken a vow vpō thē, which was very rash and vnadvised. From the making of such vowes Salomon Eccl. 5: 5: doth dehort, Suffer not thy mouth to make thy flesh to finne: He wisheth that men should be so providēt as absolutely to pro­mise nothing, which they had not strong assurance that they might wel performe. And that vowes should not be made, which [Page 141] afterward leade to inevitable sinne. Concerning the oth of I [...]ph­the, In quaest: & Resp: ad Orthodox: quaest 99: lustine Martyr saith thus, God did suffer the daughter of Iephthe to be offered as a sacrifice, not that he did delight in mans bloud but that posteritie might hau [...] that sch [...]ling, that they should never dedicate their vowes to God at large, or indefinitely. Then by the iudgement of Iustine there is no doubt, but men may make too large vowes to God himselfe. In as much then as these persons had taken on thē a yoke, which though it be not so, absolutely to all, yet to them in their conscience was insupportable, and they felte with them­selues that they might not continue vnder that burrhen with­out grievous sinne for the preventing whereof the Apostle had propounded a remedy, 1: Cor: 7. 9 If they cannot abstaine let them mary, for it is better to mary then to burne, I doubte not but in the feare of God, with sober & long deliberation they did vndoe that, which by the incitement of their friendes, or indiscreetely of their owne heades they had formerly done. And that Lord who vnder the Levitical law was so merciful, as to appoint a Levit: 5: 4: trespasse offering for such a one as had made any vow rashly, assigning him to con­fesse his fault & thē pardoning the same, would also remitt vnto his excellēt servants, whō he had singled out to help so much to the building of his tabernacle, that temerations bond which they had made, since with repētāce & grief, they acknowledged their former presūption that way. And that such who after their vowe could not liue cōtinētly, might mary, Epiphanius doth witnes, who whē he hath distinguished betweene iudgment & condemnation, & said Epiphan: Haeres: 611 that better is iudgment wherof the Apostle speaketh then cō ­demnatiō he resolveth the case thus: It is better therfore to have one sin & not more. It is better that he who is fallen frō his course, should opēly take vnto him a wife according to the law, and from his virginity a great while should repent, and so againe be brought into the Church, as one that hath wrought evill, as one who is fallen and broken, and hath neede of bin­ding vp, & not to be woūded every day with secret darts, by the wickednes which is brought vpon him by the Devill. Thus the Church knoweth to preach. These are the medicines of healing. These are the kindes of annoin­ting cōfession. And Ierome although whē he was yong he had writē, Virgins Lib: 1: contr lovi­nian which after their cōseerating haue maried are not so much a­dulterous as incestuous, which is to bee vnderstood, if they might [Page 142] any waies containe, yet thirty yeares after (for so it is to be colle­cted out of his Epistle Ad Demetriadem) seeing how the Church was blemished by the incontinency and want onnesse of some Votaries, saith thus, The name of some Virgins who beare not them­selves well, doth defame the holy purpose of Virgins, and the glory of the family of heaven and Angels. Unto whom it is openly to be said, that ei­ther they shoulde mary if they cannot containe themselues, or should con­taine, if they be vnwilling to mary. Thus this father permitteth ma­riage to vowed persons, if they cannot chastly leade a single life, neither doth he thinke their mariage to be a sinne, as neither did Saint Austen: but if there bee a faulte, it is because they breake their vow. Aug. de bono vidui. tat cap. 9. Not because she mariage it selfe, even of such is iudged to bee condemned or damnable, but the breaking of their purpose is condē ­ned, the faith of their vow being broken is condemned; there is condemned not an Susceptio à bono in­feriore vndertaking from an inferiour good, but a fall frō a higher good. So speaketh hee who both there and In psa. 83. else-where liketh not the slipping from vowed virginity; which wee also doe not like, if there be any godly meanes to continue in it, without perpetuall enormous sinne; wherein the triall must be a mans owne consci­ence soberly and most advisedly consulted, as betweene God & the soule, and not the opinions of other men. And I may not doe such wronge to Luther & his wife, or to other of that time, as not to thinke that with long & ponderous advise, they weigh­ed what was fittest in this case to be done.

8 That Iohn Calvine did run away to Geneva is a ridiculous accusation, much false, and more foolish. And whereas you sup­pose that he was the first who preached the Gospell at Geneva, as now it is there preached, that is one of your ignorances: for a reverend man Farellus by name, did plant the same doctrine in Geneva, before that Calvine came thether: Which if no body else would haue told you, you might haue learned of in Antid. Matth 23. Stapleton. But before both those, as also before the comming of Peter Mar­tyr to Oxford, even from our Saviours time, the truth which wee professe, is and hath ever beene: and when you haue brabbled as long as you can, you shall never shew to the contrary. Now when you name these three, Luther, Calvin and Martyr, you do not dishonour them, but grace them, since when they are rightly [Page 143] thought of, they are like 2. Sam. 23 12. three of Davids worthies, or in a sorte like the Dan. 3. 12. three children which were in the fiery furnace and not burnt, beeing ever in the flame of Popish rancour and slaunder, & al maledicous defamation, and yet louely to the places where they lived, dying all of them in peace, and the memory of them blessed, as being great bel-wethers in Gods flocke, & renoumed Captaines in the Lordes battailes. Howe happy are those men, who for their constant standing in the gappe, against Sathan & Antichrist, are every day illustrated, and made celebrious, by the maligning of the adversaries of truth? Their soules are in peace, and their glory is promulgated by their enemies trumpets, who the more they oppugne them, the more we doe loue them, and eternise the memory of them. These and other their consorts, as the Archbishop Cranmer with other of the English, Melācthon and Bucer, and Fagius and many more of their ranke, were no such loose companions and sensuall men as you fondly doe here intimate, neither ever did they become bad spectacles to the world, but ledde their liues in study, in preaching and writing, which may well appeare by such volumes of their workes, as ha­ving beene laide on the Popes backe, haue broken many ribs of him, that they never will be able to close againe. Their learning, their industry, their faithfulnesse, their vertuous conversation e­very way, might bee a glasse and mirrour to your Cardinals and Bishops, and all your Romish Cleargy, where for the most parte ignoraunce and idlenesse, and wantonnesse doth abound. And what marvaile can it be, that men so fore-ordained by the secret providence of the Almightye, to doe such noble service in the campe of the everlasting Lord, and to ransake the wals of Baby­lon, should vpon the apprehension of Gods pleasure therein, make speede to come forth of spirituall Gomorrha, and lay aside their superstitious and Frierly weede, which was the livery of him, who was mortall enemy to their Master Christ Iesus? if Gen. 39 12 Ioseph were praise-worthy for leaving his owne garment be­hinde him, rather then to yeeld to any lewd action which might concerne manners, how are they to be honoured for leaving the Divels cloath, whē they might not enioy it, vnlesse they did pro­stitute both body & soule to idolatrous abominatiō? And where­as [Page 144] here you bestow your remembrance on Peter Mattyrs vvife, how blessed was shee living, and howe happy is her soule nowe, that shee shoulde in such sort bee exagitated for Christ his sake? Shee was neither flaps nor fustelugs, but a woman indeed of bo­dy reasonably corpulent, but of most matron-like modesty, for the which shee was much reverenced by the most: shee was of singular patience, of excellent artes and qualities, and among o­ther things, for her recreation she delighted to cut plūmestones into curious faces and countenances, of which exceeding artifi­cially done, I once had one with a womans visage and heade at­tire on the one side, and a Bishop with his miter on the other, which was the elegant worke of her hands. By diverse yet living in Oxford this good woman is remembred, and commended as for her other vertues, so for her liberality to the poore, which by Master In Histor. Eccl. Sub Maria Reg. Foxe writing how shee was entreated after her death is rightly mentioned. For loue of true religion, and the company of her husband, shee left her owne countrey to come into Eng­land in K. Edwards daies, and so good was her fame here, that when the Papists in Q. Maries time being able to get nothing a­gainst her beeing dead, were yet desirous to wreske their teene vpon her integrity, they would needes rage vpon the bones of her, a woman and a stranger, and tooke them out of her graue from Christian buriall, and buryed them in a doung-hill.

Yet this was their Romish charity and Popish humanity, which one wondring at, did recommende the remembraunce of it to these verses:

ANd surely I am greatly confirmed in the Catholike religion, behol­ding the Heavenly manner, vsed by the professours thereof in gay­ning souls to Almighty God, for that I see them neither to spare goods [...] labours, [...]o nor their owne liues, so that they may w [...] people to Heaven. Gregory the thirteenth Pope of that name in these our daies, spent all the reve [...]wes of the Popedome in founding Se [...]ies and Colledges i [...] diverse L [...]des and Provinces, thereby to restore the Catholiks reli­gion.

9 IT is not this which cōfirmeth you in Popery, but your dis­contented humour, your passionate credulity, and most of all, want of the grace of God, who leaving you to your selfe because you tooke delight in humane inventions, now suf­freth you to striue to proue some body, in keeping vp the rotten & ruinous temple of Antichrist. For there is nothing named by you here, which should be forcible as to detaine you in your per­versnes, since if those actes which you pretend, were grāted you, yet they are matters common with mis-creants, the Turks year­ly sparing no cost, nor forbearing to adventure their liues in Hū ­gary, that they may repell the forces of the Christians, & farther propagate their Mahometane profession. And the māner which your men vse is not heavēly but earthly, since their care is more to bring in all whom they may gaine, to the Bishop of Rome, or the king of Spaine then to the [...]old of Iesus Christ. But this your asseveration you exemplifie first in Gregory the 13. who in the founding of Seminaties and Colledges in divers landes, spent all the revenewe of the Popedome. I haue tolde you before of your generall speeches without sence, reason and probability. Were you great Treasurer, or Maister of the Fisco in those daies, that you either knew his receipts or his expences? How did his Holy­nesse maintaine his estate, his family, his souldiours, his gard, his gallies, & those huge sūmes, wherat great Cōmanders are everie day? How did he send abroad his spies, and mainetaine discorde [Page 146] among Christian Princes? Did not his purse walke, thinke you? And since his own revenew was spent as you say, did he borrow, or go to best be trust for al the rest? A sober man would be asha­med, to thinke that such a speech should come frō a Doctour of Divinity. What, was it his rent for a Papirius Masson in vita Greg. 13▪ house in Bonony, which was left him by Bo [...]-Compagnon, his father, that bore al the rest of his charges? he much helped his poore [...]inred, as his brothers sonne, whō he made a Cardinal, & Philip his sisters son, & others, & this so plētifully, as that the author of the story in some words is con­strained to Apologize him for it. And if it should be thought that the most of their prefermēts were in spiritual livings, yet what say you for his base sonne (no newes that with the Popes) Iames Bo [...]-Cōpagnon, whō he would cal Ibidem. his son according to the flesh? He made him Marquesse of Vineola not far Frō ferrara, & general of all his forces as wel horse as foote: he maried him to a daughter of the house of the Comtes of Saint Flora: he bought the towne Sora for him, and got the King of Spaine to intitle him Duke thereof; he purchased for him Arpmum the country of old Cicer [...], & lefte him much wealth besides. And I pray you where had hee all his mony; but out of Saint Peters purse, and from the in-come of the Papacy? Yea, since warres be more costly then peace, where had he all the treasure, which he bestowed on the Italians; whom he sent into Importāt considerat. Ireland (whereof few brought him any tidings backe againe) or on Stukley & his traine, & many other such good busi­nesses? How do you bob your scholers, whē you give them such googeos? Truth it is that he spēt more in erectīg such houses, thē either his Predecessors or Successors have done. He who writeth the life of Cōcenat Eccl Ca­thol. in An­gl [...] Cāpian, saith that he erected a Seminary at Rome for the English, & at Rhemes another, one at Lauretum for the Scla­voniās, one for the Germans at Rome, & another for the Greeks. In vita Gregor. 13. P [...]pirius Mass [...]s doth not leave him there, but saith that hee commaunded, that such houses also shoulde bee erected out of Italye, as one at Uienna vpon Danubius, another at Vilva in Li­tuani [...], a third at Claudiopolis in Transilvania, and in Iaponia neere [...]udia hee commanded three Colledges to bee built. But hee doth not tell vs at whose charges these were erected, or what was given to maintaine them, And certainly they were for [Page 147] the most part but poore & starved things, such as whereof they themselues do make small boast. The glory of his actes was the maintenance of the English Colledg [...], where at the first, he gave monethly at Apolog. cap. 3. Rome out of his treasury three hundred crownes, and one hundred to the other neerer England, as Persons repor­teth, which arising at the vttermost by the yeare to no more then fifteene or sixteene hundred pound Englishe, it was but a small pull out of the Popes revenew. Yet how long this full pay lasted no body can tell. And we must take it to be so on Father Persons his bare word, who as one of the Io. Colle­tons iust defence. pag. 298. Seculars reporteth, hath in that booke as many lies as leaves, or perhaps pages, if not so many as exceed either. Now who doth not know, that the tribute which the Curti [...]anes of Rome do yeerely yeeld to the Pope, by many degrees amoūteth that trifling sūme? And out of that honest pay he might wel spare a part, to maintaine such as would be his vas­sals, & do their best to helpe him in far greater matters. And their allowāce being extracted out of this sweet Impost, the speech of one of our coūtry-mē might the better be verified, which I cōfes was very bloūt, but you must take it as it is. He getteth it, quoth he by whores, & therefore hee may more boldly bestow it vpon knaves. His zeale to his Prince & country which were disturbed by such Emissaries, made him speake more plainely then many will like.

11 But it is your favourable interpretation, when you construe Gregories meaning to be nothing but winning of people to hea­vē, & the restoring of religion. The Court of Rome hath an e [...]e to somewhat else besides this. It vvas not for naught that it vvas wont to be said, by a truer speech then verses ‘Curia Romana non captat ovem sine lana.’

A great part of Christendome hath with-drawen it selfe from that see, and therefore somewhat must bee adventured to gette some parte of it backe againe. Nothing adventure, nothing haue, Gregorie was not so ignorant, but that hee knevve that rule of Comm [...] ­tar. lib. [...]. C [...]us, that great men must do good, & that to diverse, & if many be vnthankful, or some by in-ability can do nothing, yet it [Page 148] may fall out, that one may require all that cost, which hath bi [...] bestowed on the rest. If but one of those coūtries in Christēdōe, which are now freed frō the Pope, could be brought back againe by the help [...] of his Alūnes, that would pay for the charges of all the other. But England especially was a faire floure in the Popes garland, & therfore nothing must be left vnattēpted, to see what good might be done thervpō, Whē Onuphr: in Iulio: 3: Iulius the 3. was advertised from Q. Mary, that England was by Parliament re-submitted to the Church of Rome, he made solemne Processions & publike thankesgivings throughout his whole chiefe city. The men who were cōming toward him, were somewhat to reioyce his old spi­rits, but the mony was more. What with the soules, & what with the silver which he devoured in his hope, he was exceedingly cō tēted. Their Records could tell thē, that Englād of all places was their garden like Paradise, that heere they had more worke thē in any one natiō in Christēdome, which may be seene by so many solemne Rescripts directed into this our country, and now to be foūd in the body of their Canōlaw. And they did not loose their labour by looking this way. It was busines to thē more gainfull, then the robbing of beggers. If Matth. Par. in Henric. 3. three hūdred yeeres agone the Popes could say of Englād, Est [...], It is a pitte that cannot be draw [...] dry, they cannot but imagine that now the world is well amended, some skrapes and fragments of the Indian gold and silver, being come amongst vs also to amend our little store. This I tell you is a faire baite, to make Gregory the thirteenth, and Clemens the 8. also, to have a monethes minde vnto vs. You [...]ell vs of another matter▪ but we doe not doubt of this. But God ever blesse vs frō any more such bargains. And as the mā of Rome in maintaining of the English Colledges, may well be supposed to have longed after this our Realme, that heere he might exer­cise his spirituall Iurisdiction: so it is as easie to con [...]eave, and as probable to beleeve, that when Philip the second and this pre­sent King of Spaine have beene at that charge to keepe an Englishe Seminarie at Dovv [...]y, and a Colledge at Validolid, and other companies else-vvhere, and that vvith so large ex­pence as to send two Apolog. cap▪ 3 [...] thousād crownes at a time, they were not without hope, that the tēporall dominiō of this kingdome, might [Page 149] one day befall a Prince of Spanish blood. And this our fugitive Iesuites have beene ready to put into those Monarkes heades, assuring that the end of one Ladies raigne, would be the begin­ning of anothers. But he who sitteth in Psal. 2. 4. heavē doth laugh their devises to scorne, he hath deluded their sooth sayings, frustrated the [...] Weston. in Pe [...]ora­tion. Prophecies, made their hopes in vaine, so that shame and confusion is on their face which as we trust, will humble them, & bring many of thē to discerne the truth. The Lord be praised for all his wonderous workes, and give vs grace to be thankfull for thē. Notwithstanding in the meane while it is much to be feared, that the Pope and Spanish King finding themselues to be abu­sed by lies and tales, and fond bragges of Persons and Cr [...]swel, & UUorthington and VVeston, and such other mates, and that in all worldly presumption they are farther from their expectation, then ever they were, will with-draw that exhibition wherwith hitherto they have charged themselves, and turne both our old and young maisters a grasing, to see if they can make any other shift, and with their Iesuitical facings beguile other Princes also. Perhaps for safegard of their owne honour, this shall not at first be done, least all men should say, that it was not for absolute de­votion that they were at this expence: but before it be long wee will expect such newes. It may bee that God may vse this as a meanes to bring some of them to heaven.

MAny holy and religious Priestes do goe daily into Germany, in­to Hungary, into Greece, into Palestina, into Aegypt, into Syria, into Aethiopia, into Africa, into Moscovia, into Ireland, into Scotland, into England, and into other hereticall and heathen countries, yeelding themselves to all daungers by sea and land, and to all vvorlali [...] miseries, having mortified all their carnall affections, renoūced all riches, honours and kinred, and having made themselues most ready for their grave, and consequently for another world, moved onely by the zeale of saving soules. And it moveth me not a little to see what patience, mild­nesse and quietnesse these men vse in all their doings.

11 THat the men whom you send abroad are holy and religious, you must give vs time to credit heereafter. but that many of them are simple men, & sent like Prov. 7. 22 Salomōs foole blind-folded to the stocks, we easily beleeve. Your great craftie cōpanions such as Allen & Barret, & H [...]lt were, & as Gifford & Worthington now are, keepe themselves safe inough. It was but a copy of Concert. Eccle. [...]a­thol. in An­gl part. 2. Goldw [...]ll some times Bishop of S. Asaph, his countenance, that he would come backe hither. By that time he came to Rhemes his minde was altered: he was sicke forsooth, & he was too well knowen in England. Persons was once heere, but he thought longe ere he was gone. He would Apolog. cap. 12. excuse his running away, but the Seculars hould it inexcusable. It may well be seene what mind the olde foxes have to come hither, by that so many of them tooke their Degrees of Doctor-ship of Divini­ty, as that there were seaven of thē English in that one Colledge at Doway, (if a bird of their owne nest did report truth) within these five yeares. Whē these did hould themselves more exempt thē cōmon mē, frō the ordinary missiō, his Sept. 18. 159 [...]. [...]o Collet. ust. Defe [...]ce. fol. [...]54. Holines was inforced to inhibite, that any more of thē should take that highest Degree in Divinity or lawe, but by speciall leave of Superiours, and on straight cōditions. And I would gladly learne of any man, what one of any worth hath now for these divers last years bin sent hi­ther frō the Seminaries. Al the late cōmers (for ought that cā yet be discovered) are but simple fellows, howsoever they somtimes are magnified, by some of their owne party more vnlearned thē thēselues. Luscus dominatur inter cacos. But the true matter of their going abroade is this. VVhen they are admitted into the Se­minaries, they are all bound by a positive othe or vow, that they shall be at the direction of their Superiours, to goe whither soe­ver they shall imploy them, And this doth Anolog. cap. 11. Persons boast to bee his devise, touching the English Seminaries at Rome and in Spaine. Heerevpon they take occasion to ridde them oft away, sending them not as sheepe but as wolves to the slaughter. If they be seditious, they have learned the precept of De legib. Dial. 5. Plato, for the pur­ging of ill humours: they must away. If they see them sufficiently [Page 151] armed to do mischiefe, they must away. So must they doe if their maintenance growe shorte. And if there be nothing else, yet the sinke must be emtied, if not wholy yet some part, to make roome for more filth cōming. This sendeth the poore boy-Priests & o­ther silie ones abroade: who being put to this exigent, make the best of it, & encourage one another in the hope of gaining soules to the Devil. But whē they come to places of dāger, blind bayard may be bold, but that sorte which hath more wit then grace, will make some shift for thēselves. Thē they may cōceale one part of a sentēce to thēselves, & speake the other falsely; then they may e­quivocate & speake doubtfully, yea thē if need be they make an vntrue othe, as being c [...]rū non Iudice. Thē some truly turne to our religiō, & save both bodie and soule. Other will counterfeite so much, & at the next occasion relapse to their vomite. Some vn­der a colour of detecting much to the State, come into the chiefe magistrates, and open all that they can, and so they are the freer from dāger. Other being Prisoners sue to the LL, that they may be heard to excuse thēselves, & lay all the former treason on the Iesuites, & the partakers with the Arch-Priest. And the rest lye hid, more respecting their own safty, thē the charge of their Supe riours. Thus we are sure that here they do. As for Greece or Palesti na, Aegypt or Aethiopia & the other farther regiōs here named, few of thē go thither: & such as are imployed, doe only serve for spies, to vew the actiōs of great Princes & Stats in the world, so to inform the Spanyard, or other who much depēd, vpō him: wher­by the Spanish King may take opportunity so to inlarge his do­miniōs, or to enter new & cōmodious trafficke, or at least to de­feat such forces, as are prepared against his Portingales in the East Indies. Hēce it is, that these Priests cōcealing their professiō, take the greatest care that they cā to learne the languages, or to make mappes of the coūtries. But where be those Turkes or Saracēs, or Ethiopiās, or Infidels, which may truly by thē be said to be wōne to the Christiā faith▪ I would heare of some one mā or woman of note indeed, brought by thē to the flocke of Christ Iesus. I know they talke much of the Easterne parts, but there the harvest may be laid into a little barne. In the daies of Gregory the 13. their great States-mā Possev [...]. de rebu [...] Moscov [...]. P [...]ssevinus the Iesuit was imploied to cōvert vnto the [Page 152] Romish beleefe, Ivan Uasilich, the Emperour of Russia, and his people of Moscovia. And indeede the Great Duke did listen to his mediation for peace betweene himselfe, and Stephen Batour King of Poland, who had then by warre a great hand vpon the olde man: but not a man or women in Moscovy did there-vp­on embrace the Romane doctrine. And such are commonly the gaines which they make in other remote places, if matters be wel sifted. Now if it be so, that Priests do go to such countries as you intimat; what should they otherwise do? for to their own natiue soile many of thē dare not returne, as being fled thence perhaps for sl [...]gitious crimes: other haue there no maintenāce nor friends & so besids the dàger of the laws, they should be to al mē ridicu­lous & contēptible, who haue traveiled so farre & brought home with thē, I say not liuelyhood & ability, but no learning or good quality. And in the Seminaries they may no longer stay, but if they should refuse Apol [...]. 12 Priest-hood, or offer to stay being cōmāded away, they would be held periured persons, & with cōtumely be turned out; & therfore I cannot blame thē, if they rather adven­ture any where vpon vncertaine hope, thē run vpō certaine dā ­ger. If needs they must beg, they think it the more their credit to do it in far coūtries, then where they are known. And this if they should grumble, as whither they do or no, thēselues can best tell, to whom may they complaine, or who shall amende ought, since their penurious or hard harted superiors, ingeminate vnto them the vow of obedience, & that is their amends.

12 But how some of these Priests & Iesuits haue mortified their affections & lusts, & cōposed thēselues to their graues, may bee iudged by their gallātnes in apparel, their gaming, their striving for place & superiority, their tos-pot [...]ing & other such behavior as hereafter I shal touch. Now let me rather see whither they haue renoūced al riches & h [...]nors or no? That our Seminarians come into Englād most poore, it is not to be doubted. Yet that some of thē here haue purles ful of gold, as Dec'arat. of popish Impost [...]es exam of Sar will. Dibdale & other, that some spēd many Sparing Discor. of Iesuites. hūdred pounds by the yeare, that some ride in their Ibidem. Co­ches vp & downe the country, is a matter confessed & not to be doubted vpon. How many are the cousening & cunny-catching tricks, wherby they haue drawn out Quod 3 10. thousands of pounds out of [Page 153] their ghostly childrens purses? Is it not avowed that Sparing Discovery. 2200 poūds at one time was by thē sent over seas out of Englād? Nay are not the riches of the Iesuits so great, that warning hath bin given by one of their own religiō, that all christendōe had need to look to thē, lest they aspire to a Quodli. 9. vbique. Monarchy here in Europe, as they haue done to the governmēt of sapona. And lest this speech may seem to be vttered without all ground, conceiue the infinite wealth of that society. It is too wel known to those who haue lately travai­led, that the possessions of the Iesuits in some parts of Germany, but especially in Italy & Polonia are incomparably great, some thousāds of manours, townes & villages being theirs. What their wealth was in France may be iudged by this, that the credible re­port is, that at their last Quod. 9. 7. expulsiō frō thence, they lost three mil­lions at the least. In Spaine they haue what they wil almost. But their greatest benefit is, that vnder the king they haue free traf­ficke to the Indies to their inestimable gaine. How this may bee, you shall heare one of their English-Romanists briefly reporte. The 2. let­ter of A. C. fol. 20. The Iesuits in India do more thē cōpetent, respect their tēporal bo [...]te in that spiritual trafficke. And, with golde, pearle, spice & such like Indian wares, they every yeare frō thēce inrich copiously their society in Europe. If this yet do not satisfie, & you desire to heare more of Iapona, & that frō the mouth of another witnes, haue it then from a low Country-man reporting the travaile of some who went rounde the world. Additam. None par [...]s Americae. In Iaponia, of the Portingale, no man hath any authority or power besids the Iesuits, who do there exercise mar [...]hādising of al matters most ample. And these almost al are Portingales, who while they were in Iaponia did informe the greatest part of the nobles & people cōcerning the popish religiō, & when they had perswaded thē with divers dreames, they did so draw thē vnto their side, that by these they are now esteemed & re­verenced as in the place of litle Gods. These Iesuits also do diligently take heed, that no mōk of any other order be receiued into those lāds. So making thēselues Lords of all matters & men, they do there exercise most rich & most frequēted traffickings. Here thē is now the first credible relatiō that they haue won some to their popery; but whither these were wise people or no, to be thus circūvented, other men may iudge. In the meane time it is manifest that these Machiavilian & most earthly minded Friers, haue not renoūced al riches & honors, and [Page 154] as men mortified haue composed themselues to their graues. Which being true of these who pretend the highest state of per­fection, what may we imagine of Secular Priests, the shevve of whose sanctity is contemptible in the eies of these Mounsieurs? This is a taste to you D. Hill of the truth of your asseverations, although I must acquaint you also, that if your Priests should do those externall things which you name, that is endaunger them­selues, and leaue earthly commodities, yet this doth not warrant that their labouring is to winne men to Christs faith. No more then theirs was, who Mat 23. 15 compassed sea and lande to make a Proselyte, and when hee was so made, hee was two-folde more the childe of hell then they themselues. Iob. [...]. Sathan himselfe doth compasse the world; but it is not to good purposes. As a 1. Pet. 5. 8. roaring Lyon he walketh aboute, seeking whom he may devour. The Foxe goeth farre from his denne, and adventureth his life also, if he should be caught, and yet his going is to destroy. The Aug. lib. [...]. con [...] C [...]es­con Gram. Circumcellian heretikes not for truth but for their fancy, 'parted with al things that this world might yeeld them, yea with life it selfe. 1 King. 1 [...] 2 [...]. [...]. Baals Prophets did to the vttermost, hazard themselues for Baall. The Eus. Eccl. Hustor. 8. 20 Marcionites had their Martyrs, and so also had the Socr. 4. 27 Arrians, who lost their liues. But it is not what a man suffereth, but the cause wherefore he suffereth, that maketh him acceptable to God.

ANd I see also on the other side, that no Protestant ever had so great zeale of his religion, as that hee woulde for spreading abroade the same, forg [...] any vvor [...]ly commoditie, either by founding Seminaries, or Colledges in Countreys, or by going or sending where any difficulty or dan­ger was, but as one wholely respecting this vvorlde, hee vva [...]ovveth in vvealth, and pleasures at home, or if by any accident hee bee compel­led, to flye into forraine Countreyes, hee maye not travaile excepte his prettye par [...]ll goeth vvith him: but such a one to goe sim­plye, and as they saye bona fide to convert others vvas yet never [...].

13 You wil tell vs anone, that the children of this Luk. 16 18 world are wiser in their generatiō then the childrē of light. And this wee knew before; as also that you are more diligent to doe evill, then many of vs are to doe good. But the Protestants haue a vocation, and keepe themselues in their watches, where God hath placed every one of them, and doe not stirre from it, but when as by the godly Magistrate they are imployed. They are not assured that to leaue their owne charge, and leade a Cir­cumcellian life without speciall appointment is acceptable vnto God. Antiochus indeede being striken by Gods hande, is repor­ted to professe that he 2. Ma [...]hab 9. 17. would become a [...]ew himselfe, & goe through all the worlde that was inhabited, and preach the power of God. But wee propose not to our selues the example of Antiochus. But the A­postles did so. And had they not a Matth. 28. 19. commission so to doe [...] Yet might they not goe till they had that Commission: and some­times they were restrained by the spirit of the Lorde, from Act. 16. 6. 7 such and such places. Yea and the calling of the Apostles is ceased. Doe you read that Saint Ambrose, or Saint Austen, or the old fa­thers in the Primitiue Church, did take any such course? And whereas Gregory sent some into England, it was vpon a speciall occasion. Eccle. hist. lib, 1. 23. Bede saith that Gregory was warned there-vnto by an instinct from God. Indeede it is probable, that Cap 26. Berta wife to King Edilbert then of Kent, had secretly a finger in that busines: for shee being of the French nation was a Christian woman be­fore, and would not condescend to be marryed to Edilbert, but on condition that shee might without impeachment retaine her religion, and a Bishop which shee brought with her for that pur­pose. It may wel be supposed that her French friends being nere to Italy, or her selfe might sollicite that affaire. But whereas you say, that never any of our faith did leaue his pleasures at home, & adventure abroade, the Proverbe M [...]dacom op [...]rtet esse me­morem, Alyar had neede of a good memorie hath seized vpon you: for in this very Chapter you mention the sending of Ministers a­broade, by the advise of Iohn Calvine, which was amonge the [Page 156] Lerij Na­vigat in Brasil. T [...]pinambaliij in Brasilia, such a iourney every way conside­red, as never Frier or Iesuite vndertooke a more dangerous, as is evident by the extreme famine endured in their returne, besides the vexation and perils sustained there. And if French-men had beene planted in Expeditio in Floridā. Florida, there had of likely-hood gone many more. But there the purpose of many Frēch was to have resided, had not the murtherours and massacring cruelty of the Spany­ards hindered it, they contrary to their owne word and honor, cutting the throats of all whō they could lay hould vpō. Yea & if it had pleased God, to have prospered our English See Hac­luits viages Colonies in Virginia, there would not haue bin wāting mē of the Ministe­ry, to have advētured & spēt their lives there: & so it may be said for any other place, where God shall dispose the heartes of our Prince & coūtry, to thinke fit, that they probablie may honour the Almighty. And wheras you speake of charges to advaūce true Religiō you needed to have gone no farther then to your owne late Soveraigne, who with the assistāce of her peoples purses, did for the true plāting of the service of God, spend more treasure in Irelād alone, & that without any assurāce or likly-hood of recō ­pēce againe (which the Spāyard ever stood vpō in his Indies) thē al your late Popes, & Popish Princes haue done in sēding abroad their Agēs. And had it not bin Gods glory alone, & the honorable mind of a Christiā Queene, who desired to blesse & not to spill that which was cōmitted vnto her, her Highnes might with lesse charge, daunger, and trouble, have desolated the country of the auncient inhabitants, and peopled it with English, beginning with the Sea-coastes, and going forward into the In-land, wher­of your Catholike Kinges of Spaine would peradventure have made no bones, as is evident by their proceedings in America▪ but a true regard of Christianity, and a minde to deale regally in that as in all other matters, induced her Maiestie to waste an in­estimable deale of goulde and silver, besides the losse of men; and all this to bring that rough and vntractable people into the sheepefolde of Christ Iesus, if possibly that might be. And albe­it the times and present occasions were such, that by necessitie the expence of her Highnesse, was rather imployed vpon Soul­diours, thē on Seminaries & Colledges, yet the resolutiō of her as [Page 157] of a most Christiā Princesse was illustrious that way, whē beyond the consultations and advises of all her Graces most noble Pro­genitours, yea beyond the opinion of Stephen Gardiner himselfe, as L. Chancellour and a Privy councellour, (howsoever as a Bi­shop he was otherwise minded) shee was pleased to graunt vnto that nation, that at Dubline they should have an Vniversity where one Colledge long since was erected, & before this time more might have beene but for the warres. And if all this had bin done by her Maiesties charge, yet howe small would that have beene, in comparison of those masses of treasure, which in warlike service have beene within these fewe yeares expended.

14 Your scoffe of Prety Parnel, and many such more we must beare. But if it bee true, that never any Protestant went about such a worke, as the planting of the faith, how do you knowe that they would not goe without their wives in their company? your tale is tyed togither with points. But is it such a sinne, that men going from their countrey, even about the Lords busines, should take those with thē, whō God hath ioined as their perpetual yok­felowes, to cōfort each other in sicknes & in health? It was wont to be that Marc. 10. 9 what God had coupled togither, no mā s [...] seperate, Wold you have vsed this speech against 1. Cor. 9. 5. S^t. Peter, & the brethrē of the Lord, & the rest of the Apostles, that they could not goe vp and downe to preach the word, & spread the faith, without their prety Parnels? And yet you know, or may know if you be not grossely ignorāt, that these led women about with them in their ordinary ministratiō. And is it not more probable that these were wives of their own, thē any other wemē? Libr. de Monoga­mia. Tertulliā indeede is of opinion that they were not their wives, but ministra, other wemē to attend thē, as to wash their feet, or their clothes; notwithstāding others do otherwise interpret the place. I wil not now dispute this since al is one in respect of this persēt purpose. But how say you vnto Aquila, & Priscilla his wife, who first came, togither frō Rome to Act. 18. [...]. 18. Corīth, & thē frō Corīth to Ephesus, which were prety iourneies if you have any skil in Geography, & this later viage also was in S. Paules cōpany, who thought hīselfe not the worse, that he had a vertuous woman to go a long with him. And if you reade the s [...]rie, this Verse 26. Priscilla by her knowledg in the scriptures, did further [Page 158] the conversion of Apollos, to the immediate beleeving vpon Christ. For which respects the company of other women, vvho are of approved fame, is not vnprofitable, when men goe aboute the winning of soules; since they in private and with their owne sexe, may be potent. And wee doubt not but many of them in their places doe God very good service, his mercy accepting of their obedience and faith, as well as of that in men; whereof be­sides a thousande other, this may be one argument, that our bles­sed Saviour himselfe, in his ter-sacred and immaculate affection, fancying (as I may say) some more then other, with an extraor­dinary humane kindnesse, is reported by the Evangelist to haue loved in that sort but fowre, whereof two were men, & two were women: the disciple Ioh. 13. 23. whom Iesus loved, and Iesus Cap. 11. 5 loved Mar­tha, and her sister Mary, and Lazarus. Your scorne therefore a­gainst woman-kinde, may be returned vpon your selues, who rather loue to commit sinne cantè, then in honest marriage to liue castè; and there-vpon some of you like travailers, do make bolde rather where you come, then be at any further trouble, as that Mat. Paris in Henr. 1. Cardinall of yours did, who in Englande did all the day in a Synode inveigh against the marriages of Priestes, and at night vvas taken himselfe in bed with a strumpet. How doe your younger & youthfuller fry make bolde with their neighbours, when your graue auncient Cardinals doe shewe themselues so carnall? And heere I pray you take knowledge, that for a little while I doe favour you.

AND if by any occasion offered vnto such, they goe about to plant their Gospell any vvhere, they doe it in such a turbulent and [...] manner, and [...] by Epistles after Saint Paules vse, but by Pistole as Beza did, as every one may see what spirite pricketh them foreward.

15 THat the doctrine of the Gospell shoulde by Sa­thans servantes bee reputed turbulent and muti­nous, is no newes. Some saide that they founde Saint Paule a Act. 24 5 pestilent fellovve, and a moover of sedition, among all the Iewes throughout the world, and yet good Sir, I pray you, do not you beleeue that accusatiō against him. And no truer is this slaū ­derous Calumniation against vs, who teach all Christian duetye to Princes and Magistrates, and that for Rom: 13. 5 conscience sake. But Calvine and Beza, as appeareth by their writings, and diverse of our English men, as may bee seene to the everlasting infamie of you and yours, by the letters of the Martyrs in Master Foxes great volume, haue planted and watred & confirmed the faith, by very learned and godly Epistles, imitating therein not onely Saint Paule, but diverse other of the Apostles, and Saint Ambrose, and Saint Austen, with many moe the greatest lights in the an­cient Primitive Church. Their bookes speake to your shame, & to their owne everlasting praise; since as by preaching and ver­bal exhortation, they shewed themselues instant in 2. Tim 4. 2 season and out of season, so by their writings of all sortes, and among other by their Epistles, they omitted no duty, which might appertain to the Ministers of Christ. And this is it, which maketh the Ro­mish Synagogue so much to s [...]arle at them. But this word of E­pistles, as a flaze of your Rhetorike is heere put, but to bring in your tale of Pistoles, wherewith falsely you doe labour to defame M. Beza. Campian telleth vs your meaning, when hee saith, Ration 8 A notorious cut threate, being full of Beza, shoting off a Pistole secretly did kill that French Noble man the Duke of Guize, being a Prince of admi­rable vertue: then which fact our vvorld in our age hath seene nothing more deadely, nothing more dolefull. The Iesuite had quite forgot the Mossacre Commen­tar: Relig: & Reip: in Gallia: l: 10. at Paris at Bartholomew-tide 1572. when at the ma­riage of a king to the daughter & sister of a King, so many thou­sands of Noble men and meaner persons, assembled thither vpō the fidelity of a king, were slaine in their beddes, or in their owne or their friendes lodgings. That was it whereof Campian with [Page 160] those words should haue spokē. But his malice rather served him, and fitter it was for his purpose, falsly to accuse that Reverende man Theodore Beza, that he had perswaded Poltrot to kill the Guize at the seege of Oreleans. We allow not of the deed, but vt­terly condemne the fact: & there was never learned man of our party, who defended it or excused it. The malefactour also recei­ved condigne punishment for his labour. Indeede the Ibid. lib. 6. & 7. Guizes after the death of their father, did publikely giue out, that the Admirall and one other noble man had hyred Poltrot ther-vn­to, and that Beza had approved the deed; but when the admiral heard of it, he knowing it to be a malicious slaunder, did by pub­like writing require, that according to the lawes of Iustice, Pol­trot who was reported to haue said so much in his torture, might be kept aliue, that he might come face to face to iustifie himselfe: but this was denied, and Poltrot in all hast was executed. But when the rumour still cōtinued, that the Admirall was touchable with the fact, he putteth forth an honorable declaration, & Pro­testation of his innocency therein, which was so apparantly true, that the king at Molune in Bourbon, did by opē sentence cleere him, and acquite him of that vniust imputation. Now the maine fact being avoided, Beza proveth to bee innocent; since by his most desperate enemies he was never thought to be more then an accessary, by allowing it at the instance of the Admiral, wher­as in truth he spake not with Poltrot, but was more then an hun­dred miles of from him. And yet, notwithstanding that all this is as evident as the Sunne, good Doctor Hil, doe you keepe the lie going, and let it not die in your hands.

16 But if we shall rightly scanne who they be, whom an ill spi­rit in this case pricketh forewarde, let vs remember the practise of the Papacy in this behalfe. Was it not the Ibid. li. 10. younger Guize, as holy a Catholike as his Father, who suborned one to shoote the Admirall with a Pistole, at the cruell Battlemewtide in Paris? And when that wounde proved not to be mortall, did not he in person come to his lodging at midnight, & send vp cut-throates to murther him? VVas it not the Popish crewe, (wherein by greate probability King Philip himselfe, and the Duke of Par­ma also had a finger) who first procured Dinoth. de bel. civil. Belgie. li. 5. lauregny to shoote the [Page 161] Prince of Orenge with a Dagge, and some yeares afterward Bal­thazar with the like weapon to kill him? If ought could be saide for these things, yet what can be answered for the death, of K. Meterran. Hist lib. 5. Henry the 3. of France, one of your own religion, who was stab­bed by the Frier? And this fact was not only liked of by infinite numbers of Papists in France, yea and as it should seeme See the Franc. dis­course defen­ded also by publike preaching and writing, but it was allowed of by the Pope and his Cardinals: bone-fires and processions vvere made for it at Rome, yea Sixtus Quintus made a solemne publike Oration, in gratulatiō of the good event, De inter­dicto Regn Franciae. edit. Fran­cosurti. Anno. 1591 pronoūcing that Cle­ment the Iacobine who perpetrated that vilany, was worthy not only to be reputed a Martyr, but to be reckoned a Saint. All the Papists in the world name the example of such a deede attēpted, or atchieved by the Protestāts, yea or that which may come nere it by 1000. degrees. And was there not in like sort an intendmēt of Iesuit Ca­tech li. 3. 6. Barriere, for the slaughtering of the present K. Henry the 4. which was a second time put in practise by Cap. 8. Chastel a scholer of the Iesuits, who assaulted & somewhat hurt the same King? For this cause by an Arrest of the Parliament of Paris, there was made a decree against the Iesuits, banishing thē out of Fraunce, as also before the pallace in that Imperial City, a Cap. 20. Pyramis was erected, which containeth a narratiō of the same. This Edict was ratified by the highest court of France, which yet notwithstanding con­sisteth most of Papists: & the force of the Edict standeth yet vp­right, albeit besides infinite other meanes, La Sain­cte Messe declar. In praefat. ad Regem. Richeome the Iesuit hath made such a flattering & clawing petitiō, to the king in be­halfe of his Society, & hath to win her favor also, Tableaux Sacrez des figures my­stiques. presēted & de­dicated a braue baby book of the Masse, to the Q. Mary de Medices now Regnant, that her Highnes withal honorable favour would secōd their request. Cā English mē forget that, which in the name of his holines, was by the Differ be­tween chri­stiā subiect. D. Bilson part. 3 Cardinal of Como signified to D. Parry by letter; that to kil our late Soveraign, a womā & a Princes, was not only lawful, but had his merit in heavē? & cā it be out of me­mory that Meterran lib. 13. Babingtō & the rest of the resolute Gētlemē should violētly haue slain her, but that god did divert it, & her Honorab. Coūsel did discover it? & who was the chief leader here but Answer to the Manife­stat. cap. 3. Bal­lard a Priest: & Recusāts must be the Actors. You know we could [Page 162] tell you of more English thus Italionated, and so growne accor­ding to the Proverbe, Divels incarnated, who haue attēpted o­ther such lewdenesses. All this while then you have great reason to talke of Beza his Pistoles, a matter wherein is no ground of truth, when as some of your La verite defend vi­de [...]. disc. bookes do directly tende that way, and many of the vndoubted actions of diverse of your side, doe testifie that you and not we, are the onely Prince-murtherers, and traiterous King-assaulters that bee or ever were in the world: which I would have vnderstood of the Jesuited factiō. The Lord deliver our present Soveraigne from you, as frequently & in mi­raculous manner, hee preserved his late gracious hand-maiden Elizabeth.

NEither doe they take any other course in their proceedings, but to destroy States & kingdomes, & to displace lawfull Monarchies and Magistrates, as the lowe-Countries, Germany and Scot­land can sufficiently witnes, and ever then beginning is of pride and envy as Luthers was: or by abusing themselves in their former estate, as Sir Iohn Calvine did, or by yeelding themselves slaues to ambition as they did in Scotland, or by following Lust and Lechery, or of some such like brutish occasion, and never indeede vpon any ground, vsing their religion onely as a serveturne, whē other meanes faile to atcheeve their vnlawfull desires.

17 IN this Chapter you continue so like your selfe, that a mā should bee behoulding to you, if you would speake but one true word. The Reader perhaps will wonder that I take such paines with you, to lay you so plainely open: but if I could tell howe, I would purge you of that Ps. 140 3. poison of Adders, which is vnder your lippes. At least I would let both your friēds & strangers see, what a mā of your word you are. But it is fit that Papistes should be such as write they care not what. Good Sir I pray you what State or kingdome hath bin overthrowen by vs? you may see if you please, that Fraunce hath bin kepte vp by the [Page 163] aide of England, the Germane Princes and Switzers: that when King Meterrā. Histor: l: 14: Henry the 3. was like to be beatē out of his king [...]ome, by the Guizes Barricadoes at Paris, & by the vile cōbination of the vnholy League, the King thē of Navarre, & the Protestāts were the only men, to whō safely he might fly for succour. And if the King that now is would declare his own mind, he must acknow­ledge that the safety of his Realme & Person, doth not least of all depend on the fidelity, circumspection & vigilancy of h [...]s Hug­venots. The kingdome of Denmarke was never so potent, nor so orderly governed, as it is at this day, since religion there flourish­ed. Since the Gospell hath had free course heere, England may truly be said for felicity & all humane happines, to be the peere­lesse paragone of the whole world. At the moderation of superi­ours; at the obedience of inferiours; that the people every way are foūd so Iud. 5. [...]. 9. willing, stand amazed al you fugitiues, & ill-willers to your countrie. And especially, that when you though that at the death of your late Prince, you should have had your long ex pected lubilee, & all this [...]and should haue beene as the field [...] bloud, stand agast to heare how with vniformity of hart & [...] ▪ all the good subiects of this land did conioyne to expr [...] [...] ioy, that they might have such a Lord & Governo [...]r, as now by cods mercy they enioy. They were not glad that they we [...] qu [...]t of one, that so they might live in an Anarchy or tumultuous cō ­fused State, but it was their vnspeakeable comfort, that since the blessed God had takē vnto him, her who was their most gracious Lady, he had another in store, whō they might serve in peace, & follow in warre, & frō the bottome of their harts pray for in both. So hath the word of God seasoned the harts of old & yong amōg v [...], with true subiectiō & Christian obsequiousnes to the higher power. Now for Germany, when was it in the Electours & other Princes more flourishing, thē of late? Whē were the governmēts of the Pals-grave, Duke of Saxony, Laurgrave of Hasse, & others of the religiō, more in riches or setled trāquillity thē now? And if the Empire it selfe be weakened & the strength therof be pulled on the knees that is not the fault of the Gospell there professed: for that errour was longe since runne into, by Ha [...]lan. Histo [...]. l. 15. Charles King of Bohemia and Emperour, who to get the Empire to his sonne, [Page 164] released to the Electours and Princes, the tributes & other reve­newes Imperiall: And when they had once tasted the sweetnes therof, they would never part with it againe. Scotland was never more prosperous, in deeper peace, & surer trafficke thē it is at this day. And if heretofore there have bin any tumultuous, it was the fault of some humorous persons, and not of Religion, as may ap­peare by the cōparing of that time with this, when neverthelesse now the same doctrine is there professed. The Cantons of Suit­zerland & the Protestants about thē, do all well maintaine their States & governments: And the Vnited Provinces doe make a prety shift to keepe that which they had: & it wholy seemeth to be in such a cōplete order, that the King of Spaine knoweth not wel what to make of it. Then certainly al States and kingdomes be not quite destroyed by vs, but those countries which harbour the Gospell, live in as good reputatiō as other their poore neigh­bours do by them.

18 But somewhat els there is in it. The low Coūtries have sho­ken of the yoke of the Spanyards service. Some of them indeede have, but so many of their Apolog. Prin [...]p. Aur [...]. Vid [...] [...]ter. lib 1 & Di­no [...]h lib. 1. Apologies and other Defences pub­lished to the Christian world, shew that it was not hastely & vn­advisedly done. They have let it be vnderstood, that the Duke of Burgūdies government over them, was not so absolute as the power of other cōfining Princes is over their Subiects. That there is a very great reciprocal duty of his parte toward them, even by the Positive Orders of their coūtry. That their first submission of themselues to their Dukes then being French, and afterward to the house of Austria, was ever on that cōdition sworne vnto, that the [...] Privileges should be kept. Among them those which are the liberties of Brabant, are the cheefe. Now as these Hollanders say for thēselves, whē King Philip the 2. tooke that harsh coūsaile, to govern thē by Strāgers, to over-rūne thē by his Spaniards, to brīg in the Inquisitiō, to behead their Nobles, & burn vp their people, to erect new Bishopricks for a bloudy purpose, & in a word with­out [...]bling or cōsul [...]g the Stats, to alter by the sword the whol face of those Provinces, they sēt oft to the Court in Spaine, they vsed [...]nfinite supplications which would not be heard, intercessi­ons of neighbour Princes, many pawses and sta [...]es & hopes, & at [Page 165] last being driven by extreme necessitie they proceeded farther, even proclaiming that he had lost the Interest which formerly he had over them. Nothing made them so averse, as their vnder­standing by a Meterr: lib: 2: letter intercepted, that there was a proiect in the King, to vse diverse of their Nobles well at first▪ and afterward to destroy thē. This letter was writen from Fran [...]cus Alava Embas­sadour for the K. in Fraunce, to the Lady Governes the Duchesse of Parma. But when all this is said, your Papists were every way Actours in this, as farre as any other: they did ioyne with the rest, and were most forward for the maintenance of their Privileges. And this so farre appeared, that they iointly would have submit­ted all to Meter: l: 12▪ Henry the 3. of Fraūce, a Prince of the Romish religiō, which in very deede formerly they had done to Lib: 10: Mounsieur the Duke of Alansō, choosing him to be their Duke of Brabāt, when he gave no other signification, but in his faith to be Popish. Yea the case of these Low-coūtry-mē seemed to mē of al sortes so iust & reasonable, that first Lib: 8: Mathias, and afterward Libr: 17: Ernestus Arch­dukes both of Austria, both kins-mē & of bloud to King Philip, & both of the Romane faith did come personally into those parts, and were Governours of the forces of those vnited Provinces, which in the eies of every indifferēt mā doth leaue a strōg impre­ssiō, that the dealing of the Spanyard was more discōmēdable to­ward thē, thē theirs was toward hī. And I do verily beleeve, that if matters were now fresh to begin, the King Catholike who now is, & his very wise & sage councel, would be wel advised, before that they would vndertake any courses so apparātly offensiue to the whol body of that people. Notwithstādīg I do leave this whol questiō of the Low-coūtries, to the vnderstāding & cōsideration of the wise, & to that which time shal farther discover. The rising of the Sleidan: Comment: Lib: 4: & 5: Cōmōs in Germany, was not caused by Religiō; for those of greatest fame who professed the religiō, as Luther namely, did disswade them from it, and wrote against them: but it was such a mutiny as sometimes Subiectes make in other Nations, and the like whereof of late the olde Peda: de historias. King of Spaine had in Arragon, and so had England in the daies of Kinge Richard the second by Iacke Stravve, VVat Tiler and other such noble compa­nions; and another such in the raigne of King Edward the sixt. Of such insurrections vvhat opinion vvee have, may partely bee [Page 166] seene by that treatise of Sir Iohn Cheeke, The true subiect to the Rebell, & partly by our preachings & writings since. We dislike it, we detest it, we condemne it, we pronounce it to be Rebelliō. In the stirres which were in Scotland there is no doubt but there were many errour [...] on both sides. If the ambition of some, whi­ther in Parliamēt or otherwise, or the disorderly tumult of some multitudes did sway to farre, let thē be are their owne blame. But this did not overthrow the kingdom: no we know that it stādeth to this day in great glory, albeit perhaps that be not wholy to be ascribed vnto thē, who in their chāges did as much looke to see­ming ciuil pollicy, as to the veritable & approovable rules of re­ligiō. We doe not hold it to be the power or pleasure of the Sub­iects, to depose their lawful & obsolute Princes. By God Prov. 8. 15. Kings do raigne: he it is who setteth thē vp, & he it is who must pul thē downe. If they grow to be tyrants, yet as tempests, invndations and other plagues sent from aboue, they are to be endured. The more wicked a body was Rob. Persons, who in his booke of Doleman Lib. 1. Suc­cession would subiect the royal throne to the vulgars discretion, of whom I say no more in that point, since a H [...]ywar. answ. to Dole: learned man hath tendred an answere to those disputations. Onely prety it it to see how the author excuseth himselfe, for vsing another mans name in that worke. He calleth himselfe Doleman, as alluding to that [...]sa 53. 3. Uir Manifest: cap. 4. dolorum mentioned by the Prophet. So Dole shall bee as Latin, and man shall be as English, a very handsome coniuncti­on. So that shall by Persons be arrogated, to himselfe a wicked miscreant, which is peculiarly spoken of Christ the blessed sonne of God. So we must beleeve him, that he did not know that there was any Priest whose name was Doleman. What will not this man say or vn-say for his advantage? And how grosse doth he iudge all the world to bee, when he would flappe the Readers in the mouth, with such absurde and sencelesse tales as this is. If he will needs [...]ve vir dolorū to intimate him, let him take it frō dolus, doli, and not from dolor doloris, and so he may rightly bee tearmed, vir dolorum, or dolosus a deceitfull man, which appellation hee rightlie did sit to himselfe.

19 When you have alleaged these examples of different kinds and different iudgments, you little remēber what Papistes do in [Page 167] such cases, When after the conference at Poissy, the An. 8561. Comment. Relig. & Reip. in Gall. Lib. 3: Edict of Ianuary had (vpon some conditions and restraint in circumstan­ces) permitted libertie of religion in Fraunce, did not the olde Duke of Guize being then combined with the Constable and the Marshal of Saint Andrewes (without ground or title, but on­ly to advaunce the Popish cause) with Lib. 4. drawne swords set vpon the Protestants assembled at a Sermon at Vassy, and slew many of them, which afterward cast all Fraunce into a civill warre? In the time of King Henry the 8. the Io Fox & Holinsh in [...] Henr. 8. Yorkeshire and Lincolne­shire men being incited therevnto by the Popish Priestes, did rise vp in armes to recover, or retaine their Romish superstitions. VVhat was the cause of the last An. 1569. insurrection in the North, but to expel the Religion nowe established? It is confessed by him who In Cōcer. ta [...]. Eccles. Catholic. in Anglia. wrote the life of Thomas Earle of Northumberland, that he rose onely in the Pseudo-Catholike cause, being animated ther­vnto by the Popes Bull of Excommunication, and therefore he is there reputed a Martyr, and so called, whereas all men know that hee dyed for open Rebellion. And if in this case the whole world otherwise should be silent, yet the insurrection of the Irish in those late yeares, for and in behalfe of Popery, as also the com­ming thither of so many Priestes, and their stickling in that busi­nesse, besides the aide [...] nomine sente in by the Spanish Kinge, vvould sufficiently demonstrate it. So when that you saide that this was the manner of the Protestantes proceedinges, to plante their Gospell in turbulent sorte, you should have saide Papists, and then you had spoken truely. The rest vvhich you heere adde, containeth vaine vvordes, and that vvhich is nothing ma­terial. That vvhich first gave light to Luther, vvas the horrible profanation of the merites of Christes bloud, by setting pardons at sale, and the horrour of his conscience to see Religion in that sorte to bee abused, for gaine to Leo the tenth and his kinred. And against whome should hee bee proude or envious? Against Sleidan. lib. 13. Tecelius for sooth and ignoraunt and impudent Frier, who gave such immoderate commendations of his Indulgences, as that if a man had defloured the Virgin Marie, and begotten her with childe, yet for mony he could pardon it. Was this man to be en­vied? or rather to be pitied? or rather to be punished? or rather to [Page 168] be crucified with some irregular torture? It is a most poore and base slander, to report that Luther was offended, because the sale of the Indulgences was permitted to the other, and not to him. He who looketh vpon the Centu. 16. An. 1517. 95. Propositions, which even vpon the instant he propounded to be disputed vpon, in the Schooles at Wittēberge against Pardons, cannot but see that he had song disliked the vsage of that marchandise, and all the circumstances belōging thervnto. He may easily discerne that his very heart & soul was moved against the matter, & not against Persons only. The abuse of those Indulgēces was so fowle, that Hist. lib. 13 Francis Guic­ciardine a Papist himselfe doth much dislike it. How Calvin did ill order his life, neither you nor any of your crew can truely re­port. I know you haue a grosse slaunder spread of him by a lewd companion, contrary to all shew of verity, which when you See the 5. Reason. far­ther touch, you shal haue farther answered. Of whom you speak in Scotland, you cannot tell your selfe: and therfore I know not for whom to answer. If any being stirred by ambition did amisse, we hold it a fault as wel as you do: but if any did well, and it bee but your conceit that he did it for vaine-glory, the error is yours for iudging so rashly. As for lust, leachery and brutish behaviour, doe not you suspect, but I shall largely proue them to be rather in your men then in vs. In the meane while concerning those who haue beene spreaders of our Religion, it is as much when they are charged with evill things, that Quintil. Lib 5. 12. Aemilius Scaurus negat as that Quintius Uarius ait, that one doth deny, as that another doth affirme. And for the ground on which they stoode, it was and is such, that none of you can shake it, no nor the Mat 16. 18 gates of hell any way prevaile against it. It is built vpon the Cap 7. 25 rocke, and therefore fret you, and rage you while you will, it cannot be o­verthrowne. And whereas you say, that they vse their religion but for a serue-turne, to compasse evill practises, you are fowly be­sides the marke. For they questionlesse were in earnest, & would not otherwise haue left country and friends, and all earthly pre­ferment for their conscience sake, yea their very hues, as thou­sands of them haue done, within these hundred or two hundred yeares. Yea many of great iudgement haue come from you, as he whom D. Calvino-Turcism. li. 1. 5. Gifford calleth Cardinall Vergerius, but indeede [Page 169] was but like to haue beene Cardinall, for being without a cause somewhat suspected of Lutheranisme, hee to Slcid. l. 21 purge himselfe thereof taketh penne in hand to write against Luther; where la­bouring about the point of Iustification, hee had his eies opened to behold the verity, and embraced true Religion, although hee lost his Cardinality for his labour. There might many other bee named, who by choosing want and imprisonment, and al world­ly miseries, for the doctrine which wee professe, did shewe that what they did, was to serue no earthly turne, but to saue their soules, and in that they were in very good earnest. These are idle obiections without matter or authority.

IT is plaine therefore in my iudgement, that the Catholikes are they, who ever fished simply and sincerely with Saint Peters net, and there­in haue inclased miraculous multitudes of fishes, and that the Protestants by their extraordinary and late angling haue caught [...]ore, but such as were in a better and more sound manner taken before. And although Freculphus writeth that the Arrian heretikes converted the whole na­tion In Chron: tom. 2 lib. 4. cap. 20. Socrat. li. 4: cap. 27. Sozom. l 6. cap. 37. Theod. l. 4. cap. vlt. of the Gothes from Paganisme to the faith, in the time of Ualens the Emperour: yet it appeareth by Socrates, Sozomenus & Theodoretus, that the greatest part of those Gothes were Catholike Christian, before, & af­terward seduced by the Arrians: for Heretikes cannot possibly convert a­ny to such faith, as may make the cōverted better then they were before.

When you say It is plaine in your iudgment, it is the wisest word that you wrote a great while: for your iudgmēt is a very weake one, as by that which is gone before, & that which followeth after, hath and will appeare. If Catho­likes be they who fish with Saint Peters net, what is that to you, who are not the one, and doe not the other? You are here­tikes, fallen from the sinceritie of Christes faith to humane fa­bles, and your fishing is not like Saint Peters to Luk: 5: 101 catch men to GOD, but to his Arche-enemye at Rome. And vvhat [Page 170] store you haue taken with your Babylonish baites, will in your next Reason appear. Now whither the Protestants haue caught any or none, let whole Christendome iudge: nay the power and revenew of your Pope so much diminished, will speake if all be silent. But whither they were in better case before, or no, Christ shall pronounce at the day of the generall resurrection, and his word in the meane time shall determine. They who haue felte the servile yoke of your superstitions and inventions, and nowe do truely taste the sweete promises of the Gospell, will not leaue their passage to Canaan, and turne backe into your Egypt, to gaine all the world by the bargaine. We can never yeeld suffici­ent praises vnto God, who of his mercy hath freely vouchsafed vs that favour, which he hath not afforded to many other. And wee desire to stande Galat. 5. 1. fast in the liberty, wherewith Christ hath made vs free. Heere you are a happy man that you chaunced to hit vpon the story of the Arrians, for now you cite vs something, wheras for three whole leaues together, we haue had neither text of Scripture, nor authority of any divine or humane writer [...], but only your bare word, and that is worth but a little. Well, Frecul­phus saith that the Arrians converted the whole Nation of the Gothes, in the daies of the Emperour Valens, from paganisme to the faith. But there bee three Ecclesiasticall historiens vvho seeme to crosse that. Let vs heare them speake. Socr. 4. 27 Socrates saith, that vnder Valens, or in his time many of the Gothes received the Christian faith, and he addeth that to please the Emperour, they addicted themselues to the Arrian sect. Here then there is nothing which hindereth, but that many of them might be new converted at the very first by those heretikes. Theod. 4: 32. Theodoret in­deede hath it, that being formerly converted to Christ, and be­leeving aright, yet when they were enforced to seeke friendship at the hand of Valens, by the instigation of Eudoxius a great Ar­rian neere about him, they were swayed by the Emperour to en­tertaine the Arrian heresie. And Vlphilas their owne Bishop was a maine forwarder thereof. [...] Sozomen for the most part accor­deth [...] So [...]. 6: 37. with this, that is to say, that Vlphilas who before had been a means to bring them to the Christian faith, was afterward won over to be an Arrian, and by his incitement, as also to satisfie Va­lens, [Page 171] the Gothes became of that beleefe.

21 But the errour whereinto these writers did run, partly by living so far of, and partly for lacke of distinct knowledge, howe many divers people of the Gothes there were, whom they, (es­pecially the two later writers Theodoret and Sozomen) do cō ­found and put togither, is explicated by Iornandes, who of pur­pose writeth a Iornandes de rebus Geticis. story of the Gothes, and lived among them now more then a thousand yeares agone, even vnder the Emperour Iustian, about the yeare of Christ 530. Hee then relateth it thus. That there was a people called Ostrogothes, & another tearmed Vese-Gothes, dwelling not far each from other, & the one of thē in ancient time descended from the other. The Ostro-Gothes had formerly received the faith, but being beaten and pitifully killed by the Hunnes, a rude nation and not heard of before, breaking in vpon them, the Uese-Gothes then frighted by the example of their neighbours, least the Hunnes should over-run them also, agreed to flie vnto the Romanes for aide; and the more to per­swade Valens to releeue them, they being infidels formerly, de­sired him to send some teachers among them, which might in­struct them in the Christian saith. Valens sendeth them Arrian preachers, who taught them heretically to beleeue in Christ. These Uese Gothes thus converted, being outragiously abused by some of the Emperours people, tooke vp weapons against the Romanes; which when Valens vnderstoode, he goeth with an army against them. Loosing the field he flieth, and being glad to betake him to a Cotage, he was so pursued by those Gothes, that they set the house on fire, and burnt both it, and him in it. By the iudgement of God saith Ibidem. Iornandes, that he should be burnt with fire by them, whom seeking the true faith, he had turned aside to perfidiousnesse, and had writhed aside the fire of charity to the fire of hell. The Vese Go­thes then being so great a nation, were by the Arrians first cōver­ted, or perverted to beleeue falsly on Christ. And this is plaine al­so by Orosius, albeit he vse the name Gothes in general, and with­out any distinction. The Gothes saith Oros. li. 7. 33. he had by their legates hum­bly intreated, that Bishops might be sent vnto them, by whom they might learne the rule of the Christian Faith. Valent the Emperour with deadlie pravity did send teachers of the Arrian sect. The Gothes held the instru­ction [Page 172] of the first faith which they receaved. Ualens had before the rule of the Catholike faith; but leaving it, hee did intangle himselfe vvith the perverse opinion of the Arrians. Therefore by the iust iudgement of God they burned him alive, who by reason of him, when they are deade, are to burne by the fault of their errour. And that is the truth your owne conscience D. H [...]st telleth you, which is manifest by the mincing of your words, the greatest part of those Gothes were Catholike Christi­ans before. Not all, but the greatest part. Therefore some, which is in truth the whole Nation of the Uese Gothes, were first cōver­ted to Christianity by Arrian Heretikes. And so your owne Pro­position that Heretikes cannot convert Infidels, is made voide by your owne example. Nowe wheras you say, that such turning is not to make the converted better thē they were before, we must confesse that if you speake of such as be Heretikes indeede, and not those whom you onely call Heretikes, being Gods good ser­vants, that the gaine thē is but this, that formerly they knew not Christ at all, and now they know him in some sort, although it be not so rightly as they should. If this bee to bee accounted but a little, then your Indian Converts of whom you boast, gaine but a little by you, for you mingle to their handes the doctrine of the Gospell, with many pollutions of vile Idolatry, & most horrible superstition, like to that of the olde Heathens.

FOR that they having indeede the Scripture in some sorte, yet have not the true sence thereof, which properly is the sword of the spirite, and the wordes are rather the scabard in which the svvord is shea­thed. And therefore they fighting onely with the scabard vvithout the sword, cannot wound the heartes of Infidels, And no marveile though they perverte Catholikes, for that men are proue to liberty, and to loosenesse of life, vvhich by such doctrine is permitted. So that they are indeede most aptely by Saint Augustine likened vnto Partridges which gather togither Libr: 13: cótr: Faust▪ cap. 12. young [...]ones which they begot not: whereas contrarywise the Holy Church is a most fertle Dove which continually bringeth forth new Pigeons.

22 HEretiks you say have the Scripturs in some sort. Cer­tainly many of them have the wordes without any difference frō the Orthodoxe. For whereas many of thē sprūg vp in the Greeke Church, they had for the Old Testa­ment the Septuagint in Greeke, & the Newe Testament word for word, in that language wherein it was writen. But they want the sence thereof, which is the sword of the Spirit: for the wordes are but the scabard, and the scabard cannot wound the hartes of the Infidels. What mischiefe with the letter of the text, and their owne perverse interpretation. Heretikes may do to thē, who were formerly vnbeleevers, may bee gathered by that of the Arrians last named, by the Pelagians, by the Donatistes and many other. But those have not the true sence. What is that to vs, vnlesse you can prove that we also want it, which M. Ration. [...]. Campian in kindnesse would threape vpon vs. There is not in the world, any fit meanes to come to the right sence of Scripture, which our men doe not frequēt. They seeke into the Original tonges, wherin the booke of God was writen. They conferre translations of all sortes: they lay one text with another, & expound the harder by that which is lesse difficult: they compare circumstances of Antecedents and Consequents: they looke to the Analogy of of faith prescribed in the Creede of the Apostles. They search what the first Coun­cels did establish: they seeke what was the opiniōs of the Fathers concerning textes in question, and refuse not therein to cope with you about the highest points, as the Primacy of your Pope, Transubstantiation or any other vvhatsoever. Yea they looke over the interpretations of your vvriters, to knovve if anie thinge there occurre vvorthy observation: they conferre one learned man vvith another: they praye to the blessed. Tri­nitie to open and lighten their vnderstanding, and in a vvorde they omitte no meanes, vvhich either Saint De doctr: Chriist l. 3: 4 Augustine or anie other good writer, doth or can prescribe vnto them. On­ly heere they lay a strawe, that they are not perswaded, that the Bishop of Rome hath all knowledge & iudgment so in Vide Pla­tin, in Pau­lo: 22 Scrinio [Page 174] Pectoris, that by his finall sentence all may be resolved, no not that he with the Bellar. de veth. Dei li. 3. 3. Councell which he shall like to call, is the only determiner of the true meaning of al controversed passages. The Poes all of them are men, and therefore may be deceived; ma­ny of them are ignorant men, in comparison of any great Clerk-ship, and many of them haue entertained vnsound opinions, as Liberius and Honorius, and divers Councels haue grosly erred, as that second Synode of Nice, and therefore blame vs not, if we pinne not our salvation, vpon such weake or partiall mens inter­pretations.

23 When you report that Heretiks pervert Catholiks, by your owne second Reason before handled, you must meane Papistes by your Catholikes, or no body, and then you are a right good Proctor to speake in their cause. Their matter was bad enough before, and in the telling you make it worse. Your Catholike men (for your words can touch no other) are prōe you say to liber­ty and loosenesse of life. Would you haue a fee for this pleading? We do not doubt but many of thē are very licentious, great breakers of the Sabaoth, swearers and blasphemers, and much inclined to other viciousnes, whereof if a man would see the spectacle of all spectacles, let him but goe to Rome. And who would forbeare this lasciviousnes, when a pardon from a Pope, and absolution from a Priest, can make all as cleere as it had never beene? But we on the other side teach our people, that these your peccatill [...] doe offend Almighty God, and that they, yea every Mat. 12. 36 idle word must be reckoned for, and our Church discipline doth bring notorious transgressours to the censure of excommunication, and open pennance for their crimes. They who haue turned vnto vs, are some of the best and gravest of your sect, and those which bee most vertuous of life, wheras contrarywise, many such as among vs haue beene wanton & toyish people, or deeply touched with suspition of lubricity, haue bin observed to retire thēselues to your shores, as being the fittest harbour for such rotten vessels. It were an easie thing to name many, who leading liues as they do, a mā rightly may say of them, They are fit to be Papists. We doe not envy you such persons, although we could wish that even such would come to the truth, and not amende their former vice with [Page 175] future idolatry. But while you receiue such, as haue had educati­on otherwise, (howsoever it hath beene neglected by them) you are rather the Partridges, of whom Saint Austen by remembrāce of the words of the Prophet Ier. 17. 11. Ieremy doth speak, such Partridges as gather the young which you brought not forth, as your Semi­naries doe declare. But God be praised for it, some of them doe serue you, as Saint He [...]mer. lib. 63. Ambrose reporteth that the Partridge is ser­ved. For whereas one Partridge doth steale away the egges of a­nother Partridge, and hacheth them, if the opinion of that lear­ned Authour be true, divers of the Epist. lib. 7. 48. young being hatched, when they afterward heate the voice of their owne and naturall dams in the field, leaue their step-mother, and come againe to her, to whom by original right they belonged. So many of your infecti­on after true grace imparted from aboue, doe returne from your Seminaries, and adioine themselues sincerely and laboriously to the Church of England. They are bound to blesse God who de­livereth them in such sort, even as Ion. 2. 10. Ionah was freed out of the whales belly. They are come out, not of the Doue-house, which fertilely bringeth forth Pigeons, but from Babylon, where Is. 13. 21. Z [...] and O [...] be, and Ostriches & Dragons. For as the old bee there, so are the most part of the young. Malicorvimal [...] [...]vum. A bad crow, a bad egge. And now telling you, that a great part of this your fourth Reason, is taken out of M. Bristowes fiue and twen­tith Motiue, I let you go play you, though but for a turne or two.

24 BVt to come to the Reader, whereas here the tearme of Heretikes is so oft vsed against vs, we briefly aun­swere with Saint Gregory, Moral. lib. 10. 16 ex Exod. 8. 26. That is service vnto God, which to the Egyptians was [...]nation. And whereas among so ma­ny other foolish ones, that is made a reason, why the Popish reli­gion should be truth, saving M. Doctours vnpointed and vncō ­cluding discourse, what can there by sound argument bee enfor­ced therevpon? What shalbe the ground that must be stood on? For cannot Heretikes pervert? The Apostles haue told vs, that their 2 Tim. 2. 17 words fret as a Canker, that Cap. 3. 6. they creepe into houses, yea that 2. Pet. 2. 2. many shall follow their da [...]able waies. And you heard before what the Arrians did, Or is it not vnto truth? Why, as touching this dis­putation, [Page 176] that is the maine question betweene the Romanists & vs. And to build vpon that, is but Petiti [...] prin [...]: to se [...]ke to haue that graunted, which is mainely and especially denied. We do not yeeld that any of them, winning their Converts to the sub­iection of the Papacy, do bring them to Christ; but rather to An­tichrist. Or is it a necessary cōcomitant of verity in doctrine, that such as haue [...] among them, should be bound to convert Nati­ons to the faith? Thē to say nothing of the Iewish Church, which had the word appropriated to it alone, for so long a time, what shall we thinke of France and England and Ireland, and many o­ther provinces of Europe, which for a thousand yeares togither, are not knowne to haue converted any one countrey to Christ: but haue had enough, and perhaps too much to do, to keep thē ­selues in the integrity of piety. And yet our Pseudo-Catholiks make no doubt, but that al that while they had the right beliefe. These things do manifest the ficklenesse and vnstaiednes of th [...] foundatiō he [...] laid. But if to tur [...] men to Christ be so necessa­ry [...] duety, what wil they say to such a strange bringing home, of so many kingdomes and regions of Europe, within these hūdred yeares, and that by a few at first, and those weake ones, when Sa­than, and the Bishop of Rome, and many potent Princes confe­derated with him, did leaue no meanes vnsought, to stifle Truth as in the cradle? When the sword hath not beene spared, the fire hath not beene forborne: when their mighty men haue stroue, their learned men haue written; there haue beene wanting no li­bels, no slanders, no defamations, yea no rebellion and treason, and massacting and poysonfull attempts, and yet neverthelesse Truth standeth vpright. You talke of conversion: but all the lo­vers and wel-willers of the whore of Babylon, may and do stand amazed, and gaze & wonder at the ruine of their kingdome, by so many millions going from them. And we trust in Iesus Christ, the conserver of the faithfull, that in peace, in warre, in al things that can come, this Arke of Noe shall swimme in safety: floate, being beaten vpon with many billowes, but yet evermore bee preserved. God hath not in his mercy given so much light, that it should be extinguished, or the glory of it much dimmed before his sonnes appearance, With the breath of his month hee hath [...]. Thess. 2. [...]: [Page 177] ken and blasted that man of sinne, and it now remaineth, that he should be vtterly abolished at Christes comming. Gaze ther­fore you Romanists till your eies and heartes doe ake, to see the [...]ine and confusion of the Gospell; and yet as wee trust in Al­mighty God, you shall never haue your purpose.

THE Church vvhich the M [...]ssias vv [...] to plante, must bee ( [...] is aforesaide) dispersed through all nations and kingdomes, [...] the Holy Pro [...]ts [...]st pl [...]ly fore-shewed, and namely the Roy­all Prophet speaking of the Apostles and Preachers, vvhich shoulde succeede them, saith Their sound went forth into all parts of the Psal. 18. Earth, and their wordes vnto the ends of the circle of the earth. And [...]st [...]festly [...] [...]sse of Christian domi­ [...] in th [...] [...] Ps [...]. And S. [...] the [...] beasts, and the f [...]e [...]d twenty El [...] [...] before the L [...]be [...]ging thus: Thou art worthy Lord to take the booke, and to open the seales ther­of, Apoc. c. 5: for thou hast bin slaine, and hast redeemed vs to God in thy bloud, out of every Tribe and people, & Language and Nation. and [...] her pl [...] After these things saith he, I saw a great com­pany, which no man [...] able to number, of al Nations & Tribes, and Peoples and Tongues. Cap. 7.

IT was long since saide, that whereas our blessed [...] Saviour whc̄ he was takē vp to an exceeding high mountaine, and shewed all the kingdomes Math: 4: 8: of the world, and the glory of thē, did refuse that offer of Satā, Al these will I give thee, if th [...] wilt fall downe & worship me, the Pope cōming long after, & hearing that such a liberal profer was made, tooke the Devill at his word, & in hope of such a wide extēded dominiō, did fal down and adore him. You come in this place to plead for your Grand-maister the Bishop of Rome, by the validity of this Donatiō: but forgetting that he who first mētioned the match, is the [...] father of lies, & so cōsequently may promise that, which is not in him to Iohan. 8. 44. perform, you gladly would chalēge the cōpleting of the bargain, that your master vnder Sathā may have so large a kingdome. And that you may the better prove it; as that cūning deceiver alleaged & mis-alleaged the Luk. 4: 10: Scripture it selfe, so you doe to your Audi­tours; yea so strictly you do follow him, that wheras he cited what he had to say, out of a Psal. of David, you also begin in that sorte, labouring to evict a false Cōclusiō, frō a right & true Propositiō. That the Church of the Messias, must be throughout al Nations, David you say foretelleth, & you cite vs for that purpose a verse of the 18. Psal. as you reade it after the Septuagint, of the 19. as we more truly account it out of the Hebrew. Psal: 19. 4: Th [...] [...] is gone forth through all the earth, & their words into the [...]ds of the world, which sē ­tēce whosoever cōsulteth that text, shal se properly & originally to meane the course of the heavēs, which being in cōtinuall mo­tion, & being whirled about the Cēte [...] the earth, do testify to all nations that there is a supreme power guiding & governing the whole world. And this doctrine, to wit, that from the ordering of the Creatures, the being of a God may be collected, S. Paule doth also teach. But that saying of David, the same Cap: 10. 18 Apostle as Rom 1. 20. you suppose, extendeth farther to the doctrine of the Apostles & Preachers. Verily the words also cited by S. Paule, do ca [...] the same sence for the Creatures & no otherwise, if you naturally & [Page 179] literally do take thē: & then I may truly say that you cānot Bellar de verb. Dei lib: 3. cap: 3 in­vincibly & demonstratively, inferre that out of them which you desire. Notwithstāding because S. Paule!, per spiritum Apostolicum, by the Apostolike spirit which was in him, & which is not to bee foūd but in the compilers of the New Testament, might adde & alter, & explicate & apply places of the olde Testament, to that which the words did not literally cary at the first: & because our Saviour Christ himself did so, being ful of that spirit which spake by the Prophets: & because also some of the olde [...] fathers allu­ding heerevnto, have not properly but by allusion, referred this Chrysost: in Mat: 24 [...] August: Epist, 80. Scripture to the preaching of the Apostles, wee will not stande with you, but accept it for the generality, as you here wold haue it, & as it is to some such purpose formerly alleaged by mee. It is therefore condescended vnto, that immediately almost after Christs ascēsion, the Gospel was divulged East & West, & North & South, in very many countries; but whither in every particular Nation vnder heaven we dare not say, since all is in the Scripture taken for a great part, as Math: 3: 5: then went out to Iohn, Hierusalem & allu­d [...], & all the region round about Iordon, which is to say, very many inhabitants of those places, and they persons of all qualities. And else-where Luk. 2: 1: all the world being a most general speech, yet is so re­strained, that it must imply no more, then so much therof as was subiect to the Romanes. Which was much at that time, but farre from the whole earth. It is also truth, that in another Psalme, the Roial Prophet vnder Salomōs person who was a figure of Christ, doth foretell that the Psam: 72: 10: 11: Kings of Th [...] fit & of the He [...] shall bring pre­sents, the Kings of Sheba & Seba shall bring gifts, [...]ea all Kings shall wor­ship him, all nations shall serve him, intēding the Messias. But will any man so take this according to the letter, that there should never be King, not Agrippa, not Domitian, not Sapores, but should be Christiās, & al natiōs at al times should entertaine the faith? This extent must be so cōsidered, that at one time or another, before the day of iudgement, Christ Iesus should bee preached, in some part of all [...]uine regions, & here and there Kings and Queenes whc̄ God should be pleased to call thē, should submit their scep­ters vnto the Lord of heaven. But you might well perceive that these thinges are spoken by an An [...] he sit, betweene the lewish [Page 180] Church, which was restrained within the compasse of one lande, and so cōtinued for many ages; and the Church vnder the New Testamēt, which should at one time or another, be variously dif­fused through all general places of the world. And what else do those two texts out of the Revelation insinuate vnto vs, but that Christians should be picked from many nations & people, farre otherwise thē while the lewish Synagogue did flourish: but you will not I trust inferre, that all nations at all times, or all people of all Nations, should belong to the true sheepe-folde; but there may be ebbes and flowes; the Church in the Apoc. 12. 6. wildernesse at the time appointed, 2. Thes. [...]; 3. Apostasy & revolting; Luk. 18: 8: faith (cant to be found among men, since there is nothing fore-tolde by the Spirite of God, but must have his accomplishment: And therefore since we are warned of both, there must be an age of paucity, as well as of plenty; a waning of the Moone, as well as a full or waxing. But what vrge you heere-vpon?

THese thinges with many such like on Holy write are no wise veri­fied in [...]y Relegion vnder Heaven, but onely to the Romane Ca­tholike Church, for that [...] but it (as every man knoweth) hath had any large s [...]pe to account vpon in any age. And it hath bin for these thousand yeeres at the [...]east throughout both the Hemispheres, in such forte that the S [...]nne stretcheth not his b [...]s further then it doth and hath done: yea there is [...], nor people, nor climate in the world, which hath not heard of, and [...] some measure received the Catholicke Romane Religion.

2. IF you take Religion heere for the true service of God, we deny Popery to be Religion. If you take it for devoti­on in what sence soever, then vvhat say you to the Sara­c [...]nsfaith; which for many hundreds of yeere, while it possessed so much of Asia, as Persia, with Media, Arabia with the countrie, [Page 181] adioyning, besides what is added within these 300. yeares by the raigns of the Ottomā [...]: in Africa al the Northren part frō Aegypt to Marocco, alonge the Mediterrane Sea; and in Europe some thing, as the kingdome of Granado in Spaine, and diverse times more then that, there, was nothing inferiour for circuite of land, to the boundes of the whole Westerne Church, wherin only the Pope dominered. And shal Mahumetisme herevpō be cōcluded to be that faith which must save mens solus. But good Sir, when the Primitiue Church did reach so wide for diverse hundreds of yeeres without any maine corruption; & when the truth after­ward though eclipsed yet was not extinguished in the Easterne, Indian, & Africane Churches; as also in very many poore men in West See the answere to the 1. Rea­son. Europe throughout the worst ages, & when nowe of late it is spreade so wide againe, these thinges doe plentifully satisfie all the speeches afore named, & Rome by thē shal have no more possessiō of piety, thē a grosse harlot hath of honesty. You would gladly draw all Prophecies to you, and appropriate them to your selves, whereas (those fewe excepted which living amonge you loathed your abuses) you had & have the least part of Gods con­gregation to be found with you. And heere gentle Doctour, ac­cording to your custome, not your mouth but your pen doth ex­ceedingly runne over, while you speake things incredible, im­probable, impossible, and your Geography is iust as sound as your Divinity. Hath your Romanishe beleefe for a thousand yeeres togither, beene as largely difused as the beames of the Sunne? Before I goe farther, I vvoulde gladlye knovve, whe­ther you can blush at all or no? Heere your dreaming doth farre exceed the doating of Hannibals Phormio. You must have a face of brasse on, when you doe but come foorth, to make good the least parte of this proposition. Cosmographers nowe divide the worlde into the olde knovvne Countries, and into the nevve founde Landes. And first doe you thinke that in the Landes lately discovered, vvhich in quantitie are more then one halfe of the vvorlde, the Sunne did not shevve his be [...]s till vvithin these sixe-score yeeres. And can you bringe any mo­ [...] or presumption in the vvorlde, that euer Christian man did knovve them, or they knevve anie Christian man, but [Page 182] especially that they heard of your Bishop of Rome, till Christo­pherus Columbus did discover them in the yeare of our Po [...]. Mar­tyr. Decad. [...]. Benzo. Nov [...]orb. Histor. [...]. 1. 6. Lorde 1492? And if you cannot do this, much lesse wil you evince, that they accepted of his faith for a thousand yeares togither. And as for the South Cōtinent, that was discryed but about or since the time of finding of America. As for the olde knovvne worlde, that consisteth in Africa, and Asia, and Europa, in every part of all which the Sunne shineth some times in the yeare, yea e­ven to the very Pole, as the rules of Astronomie (vvhich it see­meth you never vnderstood) vvill tell you. Vntill that of late the Portingales attempting Osor. de gest. Ema­nucl. lib. 1. to goe to Calecut, found the Cape of B [...]na [...], and since that time have straggingly gotte heere a towne, and there a petye Castle vppon the Sea coast, all vvhich vvas but a little before the going out of Columbus; vvhat vvas there within the whole compasse of Africa, vvhich knewe ought of the Romishe doctrine, vnlesse peradventure you will name [...]dem. Septa, and a towne or two in Barbarye, where some Portingales before that time did dwell, or else perhappes that it was possible, that some Merchants of Europe, might goe to Alexandria in Aegypte for wares, and there while they resided keepe their owne superstition? But the country it selfe was vnder the Saracent, either Sultanes or Turkes for seaven or eight hundred yeares. And as you spedde in Africa, so did you in Asia, the whole compasse of that huge region taking no notice of your Pope & of his Idolatry. For the Christians which were there, were either of no dependance vppon Europe, I speake for the greater parte of these last thousand yeares, or were of the Greek Church. The only thing which can be pretended, is that Malmisb. in Gulielm. a. lib. 4: Girusalē ­me del Tasso. Godfrey of Bullion, and other Christians of the Westerne p [...]s, did for a time conquere and keepe thr holy land, which is scant the hundreth porte of Asia, and this was holde but by the sword, and that but for H [...]veden. [...]rt [...] in Henrie [...]. fourescore & seaven yeares, but long be­fore that time, & so since againe the Saracens ever had it. What shame is there the in this mā, who so asseverantly protesteth such grosse falshoods? At the world thē in a miner is shrunke into our Europe; & there againe is cut of the Eastern Gr [...] church, who could never be brought to ioine with the Pope of Rome; no not [Page 183] at the Platina in Eugan. 4. Councel of Florence, when Italie had thought to have intangled them in her net, And all the dominion of the Musco­vite, which could not be caught by the baite of Possevin. de vebus Muscovit. Possevinus; Be­sides the Northren parts of Scythia Europaea, nowe inhabited by some of the Tartars. So that setting aside religion and common honesty among men, if you had but a compet [...] wit, you would never so audaciously haue pronoūced of this matter. Yet I make you the largest allowance vvhich in any probability you can crave.

3 But since your hand is in, you will not so give it over. There is no tongue, nor people, nor climate in the world, which hath not hearde of, and in some measure received the Catholike Romane religion. Should you not heere be answered rather [...] [...]stibus then with words? VVhat saye you to the South Continent, which is so huge a country, that if the firme land do hould vnto the Pole, as it com­monly is received and beleeved, it very neere equaleth all Asia, Africa and Europ [...]; And vvhat part in all that world, is through­ly discovered as yet by any Christian? and I doe not capitulate with you, touching all of it, but what part at all is there of the same, that hath received the faith of [...]ome? How much is there in Peru, yea of the maritime partes of Brasile, and downe toward [...] the straightes of Magellanus? hovve much is there in the in­lande, as that Terra Patago [...] or of Gi [...]es, yea hovve much toward the North from thence is there, all vvhich remaineth yet in the possession of meere Infidels, who neither have beene yet subiected to the heavy yoke of the Spanyards, nor have once tasted of their religion; Indeede for Hispania Nova, and vp as high as M [...]xice, the Spanishe have incroched very much into their handes; but if vvee looke higher into the Northren and colder partes of America, which are not so fitte for the breeding of golde the s [...]m b [...]m of Spaine, what huge countries be there of incomparable bignesse, which have nothing of Christia­nity in them? Looke either on the farther side, as men passe through the South Sea, in that Hacklan the viage of S: F: Dr: Nova Albion touched on by Sir Frauncis-Drake, and all the parts adiacent; or on the neerer fide by the North sea, in Florida, Virginia Norimbega, Estotilant, with all whatsoever is within the straightes, togither with the maine [Page 184] Mediterrane countries, being more then the kings of Englande and France with divers other Princes of Europe haue vnder all their dominion; & these remaine yet meere Ethnikes, not know­ing of Christ Iesus or Christianity, much lesse the trinkets of spot ted Popery. The who regi [...] toward the North-pole, as Grone­land, and Nova Z [...]la, and I cannot tell what besides, remaine in the same taking. The top of Scandinaviasas, as L [...]ppia, B [...]ia, Serie­fi [...]ia, and Finland, are so meerely Gentiles, as that Ol [...] [...]agn lib. 3. 2. vide Dam. [...]goes de Lappij [...]. lately they a­dored for God, whatsoever they did first see of any living thing, at their comming forth of dore every day. The mighty lande of Tartaria, which containeth in it so many millions of men the do­minion of Russia which extendeth in length aboue Aeg. Flet­che. de [...]uss. cap. 1. foure thou­sand miles, as far as Astrac [...] and the Caspian sea? haue nothing more to doe with the Romane religion, then with that which is farthest from them. Who ever did heare that the Great Cham one of the mightiest Princes on the Earth, did admit ought of Popery. As for China and divers portions of the East Indies, [...]al­fo the Southerne part of Persia, and the maritime coasts of Afri­ca and Aethiopia; these haue indeede some Portingales in them here and there vpon the Sea cost: but what haue the Princes of those countries, or their whole states to doe with the Bishop of Rome And what Monarkes Prester Iohn, & the Sophy or Shaw of Persia be, men of learning know well enough, although you vnderstand it not. To say no more, what is there of the Romane religion received in all Turky, vnlesse you will say that there be some few Venetian or French marchants, in Constantineple, A leppo, Alexandria or such mart townes, who vpon permission, haue their Liturgy in some one set place; or vnlesse you wil name those few Italian Friers, who paying a tribute to the Turke for it, doe lie at Hierusalem, that there they may shew the counterfeite sepulchre of Christ, to such superstitious Christian Pilgrime [...], as in their blind devotion travaile to the holy land Thus grossy & absurdly, and ignorantly, and audaciously, you write you knowe not what. But if lying will prevaile, you are resolved to haue it. Miserable are out Papists who read such bookes as these be, and esteeme them as Iewels, and beleeue them, and dare not looke on any mans writing which displayeth the falshood of them, for [Page 185] feare least they shoulde learne the truthe, or catch some good­nesse by them. God open their blinded vnderstanding.

NEither can the Protestantes sait, that the Church [...] begins [...]th to flowrish, and to dilate it selfe in the worlde after so manie age [...]t for that nowe it ss growne olde and aged as is most pl [...]e, Colos. [...]. Ireneus l. 1. cap. 3. Tert. li. cōt. Iudens c. 4. Cypr. de v­nitat. Eccl. Athana. lib. de humanit verb. Chris. & Hier. in Mat. 24. Aug in Epist. 78. & 80. ad He sychium. Theod. lib. de legibus. Leo M [...]g. ser. 1. de S. Petro & Paulo. and to saie that shee [...] her young yeares, but now in her olde age it to make her a Monster. Shee must therefore of necessitie haue gravv [...] and increased and occupied if not all the worlde, yet [...] doubt the greatest part thereof, and so hath the Catholike Romane Church, and [...] but shee done: for in the Apostles time shee beganne to fractifie in all the vvorlde. And in Saint Iren [...] his time, shee was spreade all ever the vvorlde then knownne, as shee vvas afterwardes in Tertullian his time, and [...] the dayes of Saint Cyprian, Athanasius, Chrysostome, Hierome, August [...], Theodoretus, Leo the great and Prosper, who in his looke De Ingratis hath these words,

Which thus may be Englished

4. The obiectiō which here you frame in our name, is of your own inventiō, & shallow like your selfe, & so is your cō ­parisō, that the Church [...]st not breed now at this time, least she should be like a mōst [...]. And yet you wil haue your Church now within these hūdred years, spread her selfe into the East & West Indies, where shee never was before. I wil not here remēber you that, Gen. 18. 11. Sata in her younger yeares did never conceine, but in het old age [...]ote a sonne, & yet she [...] [...] monster. But howsoev [...] [Page 186] ordinarily women in their younger yeares doe breed most chil­dren, and it were a monstrous matter as you would insinuate vn­to vs, that in old age they shold haue many, yet this maketh no­thing for your purpose, nether hath it any affinity with the spouse of Iesus Christ. For women til convenient age breede no childrē at al. And wil you thinke that the Church was ever at that passe? And womē after a time leaue bringing forth altogither: & wher­as the age of some of thē hath extended to a hūdred, for the lat­ter halfe therof they haue cōtinued childles. Will your wit serue you to think, that so it is with Christs beloved? Then the later ge­nerations of the world should be in a fearful state. You may ther­fore vnderstand, that the fruitfulnes of the Church, is nether tied to the first age, nor middle age, nor the last age, but to such times as the Lorde hath appointed, who decreeth that at some times there should be balcyons daies, but some other seasons great tem­pests, in which the Church shal haue a being, but yet be reduced to straights, and to a smaller number. Let any man look into this before the comming of Christ, at which time, the Church was in her youth, for almost 2000. years, being contained in the houses of a very few of the Patriarkes. After Exod. 1. 1. 7 Iacobs comming into E­gypt, & the multiplying of the Israelits, her brāches were spread wider. And so did shee continue vpon reasonable tearmes, vntill 1. King. 12 28. Ieroboams time. But when the Princes of Israel vtterly forsook the Lord, & the kings of Iuda also many times turned from the way, both thēselues & their people; were not the good broght to a great paucity? Yet when 2 King. 18 [...]. Cap. 22. 2. Hezechias came, they were more a sloat againe: but after him they went as fast downe. Then ^d Iosias once more very admirably did put life into thē againe, yet when he was dead, till the cōming of Christ which was well-neere fiue hundred years, there was great scarsity of the faithfull, saving a­bout the time when the [...]r. 2. 1. temple was re-edified. In that state did our Saviour finde it: & then nor many of the Iews were reduced to the faith, but the maine harvest was of the Gentiles. Now if a­ny of the false Priests, either in the daies of Iosias, or of the Apo­stles, would haue bin of your mind, he might haue argued as you do, that if the Church thē should be said to bring out more chil­dren, thē formerly shee had done, shee must haue gone for a mō ­ster. [Page 187] So it is since the time of Christ. God hath his appointed sea­sons which himselfe hath fore-told, somtimes promising that his spouse should flourish, and some other times be obscured. So in the daies of Constantine, the hew of her, not for purity but for extent, was more glorious then vnder all the former Emperours. Vnder Constantius & Iulian her territory was abridged: yet vn­der the Theodosij and some other blessed Emperours, shee grew againe, & notwithstāding was no monster. After ward her beau­ty was dimmed, the authority of Antichrist spreading it selfe in the worlde, as it was before hand Apo. 13. 14 prophecied that it should bee. But God at last did determine, that whē other things should be accomplished, the 2. Thes. 2. 8. wicked man should be reveiled, as all the worlde may see that in our time he is, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, that is with the preaching of the word, vvhich who doth not se to haue diminished the kingdome of the Pope, and shall abolish with the brightnes of his comming, so that Antichrist albeit much maimed shalbe til the last day of iudgment, & ther­fore his Ministers must striue to keep his kingdōe vpright, as our Iesuits & Seminary Priests do. But his Babylon in part & by de­grees must fall, & so it is already. The Church was ever somwhat, but of late shee is more glorious then in some ages before. What will you therfore say farther?

5. Shee began in the Apostles time to fructifie in all the world. That we do not deny but the questiō is, whither the Gospell did spread otherwise, then every way, towarde all the coasts of the world, in such sence as formerly I haue shewed. It was towarde the East and West, and North and South, but not in every par­ticular province vnder heaven. The words of Lib. 1. 3. Ireneus are, The Church having gotten this faith, although shee be dispersed through the whole world, doth diligently keepe it. Wher­out if you wil gather, that in his time the Church was in all the knowne worlde, you will make vs of Britaine very ancient partakers of the faith, since Euse. Eccl. Histor. 5. 19 I­reneus was the scholler of Polycarpus, whose Maister was Iohn the Evangelist. And this excellentlie fitteth your report of king Lucius & Pope Eleutherius. Tertullian saith thus: Contra Iudaeos c. 4. The kingdome & name of Christ is every whither extended, is every where beleeved, is embraced by all the nations aboue named, raigneth every where, is every [Page 188] where adored. The countries before named are from India to Ae­thiopi [...], Germany, Britaine, Mauritania and some few other. Cy­prian saith De simpli­cit. prelato. vel de vni­rat. Eccles. The Church with store of fruitfulnesse doth stretch foorth her bowes into the whole world. The speech of Athanasius is, De incar. nat. verbi. As many nations as bee any where, abiuring th [...]r countries rites, & the wic­kednesse of their Idols doe now place their hope on Christ, and doe give their names, vnto him, as even by the verie eyes a man may deprehend. Chry­sostome writeth thus: In Mat 24 That before the overthrovve of the Cittie of Hierusalem, the Gospell vvas spreade through the vvorlde; heare Paule, Their sounde is gone out into all landes. And Hierome com­menting on the same texte, Hier in Matth: 24: A signe of the Lordes comming is, that the Gospell should bee preached in all the vvorld, that no man may bee excusable, vvhichwe see already fulfilled, or shortlee to bee completed: For I do not thinke that there is any nation remaining, which is ignorant of the name of Christ. And although it hath not had a Preacher, yet by the bor­dering nations it cannot be ignorant of an opinion of the faith. S^t, Austen being enquired of, concerning the end of the world, saith that before it come, the Gospel must be preached to al nations, which in as much as he supposed not to be done in his time, he resolveth that the day of iudgment was not presently to follow. Heare himselfe, Epist. 78: But if by reason of certaine places, vvhich are inaccessible and in hospitall, it is not beleeved to be possible, that the vvorlde should bee traveiled over by the servaunts of GOD, and it shoulde bee faith­fullie reported, how many and how great nations there bee yet without the Gospell of Christ; muchlesse doe I suppose, that by the Scriptures it may be comprehended, how longe times there shall be vnto the ende, in as much as in them we doe reade, No man can knowe the times vvhich the Father hath put in his own power. In the second Epistle which you cite out of Saint Austen, the best words that I can finde for your purpose are these, Epist: 80. The Prophet sheweth, h [...]vve there is no parte of the vvorlde lefte, vvhere the Church is not, since there is [...] of the Ilands left, but that it doth adore him. VVhat more is in this place you shall heare by and by. Theodoret hath thus much; speaking of Antichrist, In divino. decretor. Epitome. by the prediction of God, the Gospell must bee preached amonge all Nations, and then hee that is Antichrist, must bee so seene. The words of Leo are, Leo serm. [...]: in Nat iv. Petr. & Paul. To the ende that the effect of this vnspeakea­ble grace of CHRISTS taking flesh vpon him, might be spreade [Page 189] through all the vvorld, the providence of God did prepare the kingdome of the Romanes. Prosper writeth howe Pelagius the heretike beeing sprung vp in Britaine was oppugned.

6 These wordes if you wil vrge for the Primacy of Rome, they doe in substaunce import no more, then that which was decreed in the first Nicene Councell, where the Bishop of Rome was ter­med Vide Gra­tian part: 1: Distinct: 99. 3: Primae sedis Episcopus, and the vvordes poetically serte out by caput pastoralis honoris doe signifie no more. Therefore you goe to farre, vvhen you saye the Bishop of Rome is of Prelates peerelesse Lord, which your selfe may see, since Prosper in cōfuting Pelagius, ioyneth many other Bishops as equals in care with the Pope. But then he reckoneth him vp first, secōdly the Bishops of the East, afterward Hierome. And wheras he termeth Rome the seate of Peter, that was according to atradition much received a­mong the Anciēt, but for the māner therof much differed vpō by all. Besides Prosper lived in the daies of Pope Leo the first, with In vita Leonis Mapni. whō he was very familiar, & with In vita Prosp. A­quitan. whō he was at Rome, receiving many favours from Leo, and therefore might more easily incline to the opinion of that Pope, who began to arrogate too much to his See, and to magnify it so farre as that his Successours, but especially. Lib. 3. Epist. 76. Gregory woulde not stande to it. This doth often appeare in the vvorkes of Leo, but I vvill cite by name one place, whence Prosper might have the prose of that, which heeturned into verse. Speaking vnto Rome, as concerning Pe­ter & Paule, hee saith thus: Leo Serm. 1. in Nati­vit. Petr. & Pauli. These are they who brought thee to this glory, that thou shouldest be a holy natiō, a chose people, a citie of Priests & Kinges, and that by the holie seate of Saint Peter, thou beeing made the [Page 190] head of the worlde, shouldst more largely rule by divine religion, then by earthly dominion. Whē Prosper heard this from Leo as an Orator, he might set it a strain higher as a Poet, who in his amplification would leaue out no word, which might grace the place whō hee would honour. And then he could not see the inconvenience, that afterward did arise by too much magnifying that Episcopal or Patriarchical city. And these things are especially to bee remē ­bred, if you would vrge his words to that purpose, which in this place principally cōcerneth you, that is to say, that the faith was spread over al the world. Truth it is that much of the world ioy­ned in the same beliefe with the Clergy & city of Rome, & from thence as being one of the Imperiall residences, they had great light; & many also repaired to the Bishops there, as being for a long time eminent persons, in respect of their holines of life; but if we wil speak exactly, neither did they take their religiō from thence, more then frō Hierusalē, Alexandria & Antioch, neither did, I wil not say the fai [...]h of Rome, but that faith which vvas in Rome, as wel as in other places, possesse the whol world. For first the Loco cita­ [...]o. words of Leo himselfe, do signifie the Christian Religion to be no farther spread over the earth, then the Roman Empire had bin, or little more; & we know that albeit vnder that Empire was much of the old knowne world, yet there was also a very greate deale which never came vnder their subiection. And secondly even at that time, being about 450. years after Christ, neither by the Apostles, nor by their successours had the Gospel bin mēcio­ned in many parts of the old world, which is it that seemeth here to ly on you to proue. And for this we neede no better testimo­ny then his whom before you cited, S. Austen I meane, who was an old mā living when Prosper was younge. Besides I wil choose no other place, but one of those whom yourselfe cite, which be­ing throughly scanned by the Reader, will evidently shew that you D Hill do take vp your wares at trust. Or else, had you loo­ked and knowne the place your selfe, you would never haue ci­ted that, which so expresly confirmeth the point by mee taught, and over-turneth your assertion, of the Gospell being spreade in all countries of the world, taking countries and Nations, particu­larly and specially, and strictly as you doe in your discourse.

[Page 191] 7 Saint Epist, 78: Austen then being asked by Hesychius, concerning the n [...]enesse of the day of iudgment, had in a former Epistle gi­ven reasons out of the holy Scriptures, why that time was not likely to be very shortly: and among other that was one, that the Mat. 24. 14 Gospel of the kingdome had not yet bin preached throughout the whol world. Hesychius is not yet throughly satisfied, & ther­vpon S. Austen so advertised setteth to him againe in a second Epistle, and farther prosecuting that point of the faith not yet re­ceived every where, he vttereth these words: Epistol. 80. Whereas your Re­verence doth thinke that this is already done by the Apostles themselues, I haue proved by certaine arguments that it is not so. For there are with vs, that is to say in Africa; innumerable barbarous nations, among whom that the Gospell is not yet preached, we may everie daie read [...] learne, by those who are brought captiues from thence, & are now mingled with the servants of the Romanes. Then he addeth that some of the African people, being lately subiected to the Romanes, had given their names to Christ But those more inward who are vnder no power of the Romanes, are not at al possessed with the Christiā religion, in any of theirs. Yet he saith it was not to be doubted, but that more and more woulde come in, that the Prophecies of the Scripture might bee fulfilled. But that the Western part of the world had the Church thē already. Afterward, looke in what natiōs therfore the Church yet is not, it must be not that atwhich shalbe there must beleeue, for al natiōs are promised, but not all men of all nations. And yet againe, Howe then was this preaching fulfilled by the Apostles, in as much as yet there be na­tions (which is vnto vs most assured) in whom it lately began, and in whom not as yet it is begun to be fulfilled. Hee sheweth that it was and must be performed in the Apostles and their successours, to the end of the world. And to that purpose hee expoundeth that speech, Psal. 19. 4. Their sound is gone out into all lands, by the future tense as well as by the time past. He shutteth it vp thus, It is fructifying and growing in all the world, although the Gospell did not yet possesse the whole: but hee did say that it did fructifie in the whole world & increase, that so he might signifie how farre it should come by fructifying and increasing. Novve who doeth not see that the same which this vvorthy Father said in his time, of innumerable nations in Africa not yet called to the faith, might then & many hundreds of years afterwarde, yea in [Page 192] some till our time, be verified of the Northren partes of Europe, and of the North and East countries of Asia, to say nothing of all the new-discovered lands, toward the North, South & West, of which before I haue spoken. And this togither with Hieroms owne words before mentioned, Or else we see shortly to be fulfilled, In Mat. 24 doeth shew that the speeches of the auncient Fathers aboue na­med, are not strictly and precisely to be taken, but that all is to be vnderstoode, for much and many, and for all the generall coasts lying to the East and West and North and South, not including each speciall. And so consequently such a multitude of authori­ties is but very idly brought: for we wil & ever do grant so much, as any man can in truth wish to bee collected out of them. But what is all this to the purpose, since neither then nor since, they do agree with the polluted doctrine of your Sinagoge: and the faith which olde Rome spreade or mainetained, is no more con­sonant to this infidelity which our new Rome maintaineth, then an apple is like an oyster. Which one answere although it cut of al your cavils, which you fetch from antiquity in praise of Rome, and we frequētly inculcate it vnto you, yet because it so biteth, you will in no sort remember. It is a tricke in Rhetorike, but it is withall but a base shift, to slippe by that, or to seeme to forget that, which woundeth to the hart and vtterly destroyeth.

BUt the Protestants per adventure will grant, that the true Church flourished in those dayes, but not afterwardes vntill this age, in which they haue reformed the same: yet is it most manifest that it flourished afterwardes even vntill this our time, no lesse then it and be­fore, if not more: for in Saint Gregory his daies it was spreade all over the worlde, as appeareth by his Epistles to the Bishops of the East, of Afrike, Spaine, France, England, Sicily. And by Saint Bede in cap. 6. Cantic. as al­so by Saint Bernard, who disputing before Rogerim King of Sicily, avou­ched that in those daies, the East, all the West, Fraunce, Germany, Eng­lande, Spaniardes, and many barbarous nations obeyed the Bishoppe of Rome.

8. The Protestāts not fearing that you shal gaine any thing by that which is truth, wil refuse to yeeld you nothing that is true. In the first Church, that is while the Apostles lived, the spouse of Christ for doctrine was most glorious, & for some hundreds of yeares afterwards, her honor flourished not a little: yet so that some pety superstitions began to creepe in heere and there. But about six hundred years after Christ, shee for the out­ward face did more & more droupe in doctrine. 1. Ioh. 2. 18 Antichrists be­gan to peepe vp in the Apostles time, but then they coulde not properly be called the great Antichrist. And that which was thē, was not so eminently, as that the followers of the Apostles did much obserue it, being then more troubled with persecution or heretiks, then with superstition. In processe of time matters grew to a worse state, evil opiniōs creeping in, & at last the maine 2. Thes. 2. 3 A­postasie followed. But in this Apostasie & very great declining, there were who yeelded not to the time, but kept thēselues vn­spotted of the world, especially for mainest points of salvation. And it being thus whē things were at the worst, God in this later age, hath suffred that truth which was more hidden, to illustrate the Christian world again. Yea but you wil proue, that since the Primitiue Church, faith florished more thē before, or at the least it was not diminished vntill our time. You can do wonders Sir, or els your own reason would informe you, that nothing beene added til these lare navigations of the Portingales & Spaniards, Christianity must needs be exceedingly diminished, when the Saracens & Turks for so long space, haue devored so much of A­sia, Europa, & Africa, as is or hath bin vnder thē. You are but a sim­ple man for story, & weaker for Cosmography, or els you would not so improbably talke at randon. But any thing serveth your turne. Well, the faith was in Gregories times over all the worlde. How proue you this? Forsooth he wrote Epistles to Bishops of Spaine, France, England, Sicely, yea & of the East, & of Afrike, Ergo the faith was over all the world. A young man of the age of sixteene yeares hath by his diligence learned without booke, the Epistle to Philemō, & that to the Colossians, yea the book of [Page 194] Ruth and the Prophecy of Aggeus, therefore he can say all the Bible by hart. This is Logike for the Seminaries, but not currant elsewhere. VVhat wrote he into Tartaria, or India, or Mani­congo, what to Finland, or Iseland, or a thousand places more? And what saith Bede? In Cantic. 6. The summe of the citisens of that celestiall countrey doth exceede the measure of our estimation. But this is spoken of all the faithfull that are, were, or ever shall bee in the world? As also that following vpon the texte, Adole scentularum non est nu­merus, There are saith hee young maidens vvhereof there is no number, because there are sound innumerable cōpantes of Christiā people. Which within seaven lines after he maketh most evident, The vniversall Church which in the same her faithfull members, from the beginning e­ven vnto the ending of the vvorld, from the rising of the Sunne vnto the setting, from the North and the Sea doe praise the name of the Lorde. Doth this shew any extraordinary thing in the time of Beda, or any flourishing of the Church, or more thē that there were faith­full toward al parts of the world? Such is that which was brought touching S. In vita Bernard. L [...]. 217: Bernard, who vpō a great schisme in the Church of Rome, betweene Innocentius, and the Antipape Petrus Leonis, being sent for to compose this strife, and to see whether he could winne over to Innocētius, Robert the King of Sicely who stood for Peter, in his Oration saith, that if Peters side were good, they who acknowledged Innocentius for Pope should bee in very ill case: And these hee nameth, Then the Easterne Church shall perish, vvhich at that time coulde comprehend no more but those fewe Christians, vvhich were vvarring in or about Palestina: for the Greeke Churches did not then acknowledge the Popes Iurisdi­ction, the whole West shall perish, Fraunce shallperish, Germany shall pe­rish, the Spanish and English and the Barbarian kingdomes shall be drow­ned in the bottome of the Sea. Where he doth not adde these special countries over and aboue the VVest, but signifieth vvhat was meant by that generall name, that is to saye, Fraunce, Germany, Spaine and England vvith some inferiour Kingdomes. So that now if S. Bernard doe say any thing heere, your all the worlde is vvonderfully shrunke in the vvetting. So you strive against the streame, and the farther you goe, the worse you goe.

AND in these daies it is all over Italie, all over Spaine, and in Fraunce, in most partes of Germany, in Poleland, Boheme, besides England, Hungary, Greece, Syria, Aethiopia, Aegypt, in vvhich Landes are many Catholikes, and in the newe world it flourisheth mighti­ly, in all the foure partes of the world, Eastward in the Indies, VVestward in America; Northward in Iaponia, Southward in Brasilia, & in the vt­termost partes of Afrike

9 AS many as be disposed to knowe the Popes strength, harken now to his muster-maister. Al, Italie commeth first as being neerest the Popes nose; then all Spaine is the second legion. But how would it be in these lands, if your In­quisitours did give scope; when doe what you can, with all your bloudy torments, you cannot roote religion out of those places? Yea it seemeth that some where in Italie it beareth a prety shew, when your Cardinall Bellarmine to the cold comfort of his olde hart, could complaine that Lutheranisme (for so he calleth it) had In praefat. Generali: at last passedover the Alpes, and pearced even vnto very Italie. But is your Pope come to that poverty, that now of all the firme lande of Europe you can single out but two countries, which stande wholy for him? Yea and one of those also liable to so evident an exception? This is a good steppe within one hundred of yeeres. In the next age God Almighty may plucke many of these from him also. But his will must be done. In other Realmes there bee Catholikes, as in Fraunce. It is not so farre from vs, but we know how the world goeth there. It is possible within that Kingdome to finde more then seaven 1. Reg. 19. 18. thousand who never bowed their knees to Baal. And be they such Papists in the most partes of Ger­many? I am sure you have heard of one Luther, whose scholers and himselfe haue not lost much time there. I know you have great ioy to remember him. For Polonia & Bohemia, I beleve that you heard some body say, that there be both Nobles and of [Page 196] other sorts, who have a religion besides Popery. Those who love Hus and Luther are not all deade in the one: And in the other, somewhat there is in it, that in the open assemblie of the States or Prefat. Ap [...]log. I [...]. In [...]ui. [...] Parliament, it hath bin dared to be proposed, that the Iesuites & their Colleges shold be extirpated thēce. That in Englād there be some whō we pity & pray for, we cannot deny, that is especi­ally the weake & beguiled ones, As also that there be some more obstinate ones left, to be like the Canaanits Numer. 33. 55. prickes in our eies and thornes in our sides: but surely you can make no great boast of the Popes tyrannizing heere. Nay it is to be hoped, that his number is likely day by day to be diminished, since many indifferently affected returning to their owne iudgmēt, wil see that they have beene abused by the Priests, who never ceased to inculeate into their eares, that if once the ere of her late most Christian Maiestie were out, England would be nothing but as a feelde of bloude, to the Professours of our Religion; and what by the strength of the vnited Romanistes within the lande, and of the assistance of some Popish Princes from beyonde the Seas, Papistrie would heere flourish in maine magnificence: VVhich vaine tales ma­ny of them in their weakenesse beleeving, thought is was best to betake themselues to their congregation betimes, least such mul­titudes comming in afterward, there would no notice be takē of thē or perhaps no roome be left for thē. That in Hūgary true re­ligiō is not vnknown, may b [...] gessed by those [...] Sleidan. lib. 14 & 26. manifold petitiōs almost of the whol Realme, to have the Gospell countenāced by law, even so long agone as in the time of Ferdinandus afterward Emperour. But for the state of diverse of these countries, I had leifer you should heare Bellamine thē me. Thus the he choaketh your assertiō: In presat Generali. Who is ignorant that the Lutherane pestilence, which a little before did begin in Saxony, did presetly possesse almost all Germanye then that it went to the North & to the East: that it wasted Denmarke, Norway, Sueden, Gotheland, Pannonia, Hungary: then that with the like spead being caried to the West & South, it did in short time destroy Fraūce Englād, Scotland, vvhich ere-whiles were most flourishing kingdomes; at last passed the Alpes, & pearced evē into very Italy? For the rest which you doe name, you are in worse case then pitifull P. What many Catholikes have you in Greece? Some fewe Venetian marchants [Page 197] which trade to Cōstantinople, or some other of like quality. For the professed Religion through Greece is Turcisme: & the Chri­stians there inhabiting as being of the Greekish Church, doe de­cline your Pope as the Cockatrice of the world. And is it not thus in Siria, where the people are also Turks; only you have a few Fri­ers lying at Ierusalem to shew some coūterfeit Reliques, & either forged or suspect places, to pilgrims. To furnish vp this little bād, I pray you put to, your marchāts lying at Aleppo, & for Aegypts sake, foget not those also at C [...]iro or Alexādria, for if you should take these away, you wil not leaue your selves a mā there. So that while you mētiō such stuffe, do you any thing els thē dally with your Reader? And what have you in Aethiopia vnder Prester Iohns dominiō? In religion he differeth far frō you as Lib 9 de gest is [...]ma­nuel. Osorius & ^t Damianus a Goes shew: he never heard of your Pope til of late, & he wil hold nothing frō him. Perhaps you have some one or two Friers there, who are sēt to learne the lāguage, or may serve to do Demori­bus Aethio. pum. some turnes for your Portingale Merchāts, dwelling on some ma­ritime places of the farther side of Africa. Or some of those traffi­quers do go with their wares to some townes of Aethiopia. This is a worthy matter to be cited for the honor of your holy mother.

10 I do wōder that being heere in this sweete enumeratiō, you tell vs not out of Contr Machiavel. Lib. 3. 4. Bozius, that of purpose to acknowledge the Popes prerogative, & to sweare obediēce to him, there came out of Africa to Clemēt the 7. the Legates of David the King of the Aethiopiās, & of the Princes of Mexico, from the most remote Kingdōes of the Western Indres: & to Iulius the 2. Embasladors out of Africa frō the king of Mantcōgo: & lately to Gregory the 13. frō lapona in the East Indies, & frō the mighty kings of the Tar­tars in Asia. Such cūny-catching tricks have bin practised a great while, to magnify the Bishop of Rome. Sometimes there hath bin no body at all: some other times some hūgry cūning slave put in­to a straunge coate, and two or three beggers after him, (who like rogues have wandred vp & downe, or rūne away frō their coun­trey, or come frō some great ones as spies) hath bin the Legate or Patriarke, without penny of maintenāce, or ship to bring them, or ought to grace thē. Gentillet, in examin. Concil Tri­dentin Self, 1. Engenius the 4. to give credite to his Cō ­venticle at Florēce, against the Synode held at Basile, giveth out [Page 198] that Iosippus the Patriarke of Cōstantinople, came to submitte himselfe & his coūtry vnto him: & when Iosippus was deade, an Epistle was published, which he was said to writ in his death bed, signifyīg to al those that were within his Patriarchate, that he ap­proved the doctrin of the Papacy, & acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ. This was about the yeer 1439. And to shew his facility in this kind of invention, the same Eugenius provided some to come, not into the coūcel for feare of the pack being dis­covered, but about the ending of it, who said that they were the Legats of the Patriark of Armeni [...], who also professed to allow the faith of the Pope, & to approue that which was concluded in the Cōvēticle of Florēce. And because such fine trickes as these shold not grow cleane out of vse, at the last meeting at Trēt, Idem in Session. 21. Pope Pius the 4. had such a Pageāt. For he caused Amulius the Cardinal thē abiding at Rome with him, to write a solemne letter to the Fa­thers at Trēt, that one Abdisu the Patriarke of the Assiriās in the East, dwelling neere the river Tigris, was by the advise of his peo­ple come to Rome the yeare before, accōpanied with some Priests & a Deacon: That the Pope in a full consistory of his Cardinals, had pronounced him to be the Patriarke, & Pastour of that peo­ple, & yet not so, but that first he did heare him make the cōfessi­on of his faith, and tooke an othe of him to keepe obedience to the See Apostolike: That departing away, hee desired to have sent him a copy of the Decrees of the Tridentine coūcel, whē all there shold be accōplished. But in the meane while he did testify, that the same faith which is nowe helde in the Church of Rome, had without any variatiō bin among thē, since the daies of the A­postles. All this was divulged after that Abdisu was gone from Rome: to the end that no mā might disprove it. What a wrōg did you to your cause, that you did not put these in, especially since the Iurisdiction of this Patriarke was so large, that hee had vnder him in the Great Turkes dominion, seaven Archbishoprickes; all Metropolitans, & thirteene Bishoprickes; vnder the Sophy of of Persia five Arch-bishoprickes Metropolitane, & thirteene Bi­shoprickes, [...]yea vnder the dominion of the Portingals in India, three Arch-bishoprickes & one Bishopricke. VVould not this have made a faire shewe when your troupes vvere in the fielde? [Page 199] you have done your Lord and Maister the Pope wronge, so to o­over-skippe these in such a fashion. For our part we must winke at such simple trickes as these bee. Yet these will serve to abuse the children of vnbeleefe, and to gulle many a good silye Pa­pist.

11 Some kind harted man wil pity me, that whē you leade me such a daunce over all the world, as you doe, I must bee bound to follow you. But let my friends take no care, for if you make not very good hast, I shall bee in some of the places as soone as you. Now we come to the new worlds, whereof our great Grand-fa­thers never heard, and there we must thinke that Popery spring­eth by thousands. In what countrey are you Sir, when to make vp your foure quarters, you put Iaponia in the North? It is within lesse then ten degrees of the Tropicke, and more South­ward then Spaine, yet with you it must bee North. So Brasilia is South-ward, when yet the vpper parte thereof, is verie neere to the line. If you had named the South Continent for South, and the Iles tovvard the Northerne Pole for North, or else Ca­thay, vvee had better allovved thereof. But vvee must take what you give vs, and you must give vvhat you gette. VVee vvill for the while doe you the favour, as to imagine you to stand iust vnder the Aequinoctial. But the cōmon bragge which is agreed vpō amōg you, is that you have large harvests in the new world. Bristowe Motiv. 2 [...]. saith that the Church hath in those partes vvonne more in­comparably, then i [...] hath lost by Heretikes in these our partes. Sta­pleton goeth as farre beyond him, as hee goeth beyond the truth. Thus then hee talketh: [...] Though in very deede through the A Dis­course vpō the doctrin of the Pro­testantes. pernicious persuasions of that wedded Frier, certaine places and couers of Christendome, have svvarved from the Catholike Church, and autho­rity of the Apostolike Se [...], in these North partes of the world, yet it hath thousands folde more beene enlarged, in the West parts and the new lands, found out by Spanyards and Portingales in these late yeeres, as the letters of the Iesuites directed from those countries into these partes doe evi­dently and Miraculouslie declare. Hee who wrote the Apologie of the Seminaries, harpeth vpon this string, but with a lower tone, Chap. 6. The Iesuites in the East Indies, have brought countries which were very bar­barous, and the most potent Princes of them, togither vvith the provinces [Page 200] and people subiect vnto them, to the Catholike & Romans faith. Con. Da­videm Chy­traeum. Posse­vinus your great States-man proclaimeth, that in these lāds late­ly discovered, it is a miracle of al miracles, to see how many be cō verted, mē going through so many seas to do it, & then without weapō or force alluring thē to Christ. But al these great clamors not withstanding, they who will read either your own writers or other, know how it standeth wel enough. Then briefly to open the truth. In the yeare Pet. Mar. Decad. 1. 1. 1492, Colūbus the Genoway with some Spanyards, at the charge of Ferdinandus & Elizabeth king and Queene of Castile, did faile so far to the West, that he came to the Ilands since called Cuba & Hispaniola. The matter vvhich there they aimed at, was store of gold and silver, which the coū ­try did yeeld, & afterward they did light also there-about on a­boundance of pearle, all which were sweet baites for the greedy & needy Spanyards. The fame of this stirred vp both the Prin­ces to send, & the subiects to goe in huge numbers thither: when not long [...] after the maine lande of America was descryed, and after that, Peru, the South sea, & the kingdome of Mexico. Benzo in nova novi orbis h [...]st [...] ­ria. li. 1 & 2. In all these rich Provinces did these Spanyards set footing, and fin­ding them litle better then naked men, without armour, yron or steele, having only for their weapons, clubs and simple bowes & arrowes, they without leaue or liking of the inhabitants, built at first Castles in divers places, & afterward at their pleasure townes & citties. Some of the ancient people there they slew downe in war [...]some other of them they caused to destroy one another, ei­ther raysing new discords among them, or cunningly perpetua­ting their olde: thousands of them did these new commers slay taking them single and alone: such as lived they inforced to bee their slaues, causing thē to worke like brute beasts in their mines, without any compassion of them: where if they were slacke, they were chastised with intolerable torture: which made many of thē drown thēselus, some others throw thēselus frō rocks or into the mines: yea generally they so loathed their in human cruelty, that thousands of women great with child either destroied thēselues, or the childrē in their bellies, that they might not bring into the world any creatures, to be slaues to so vile & outragious persons. In the meane while they go on with rebellion against Columbus [Page 201] their governour, who for recompēce of his honest service was by some of thē tumulting, thrust out of his cōmāding charge, & sent bound into Spaine, to the dislike of the K. & Q. they fel to mur­ther one another, they spēt their time in dieing, swearing, cu [...]sing & blaspheming God, in rapes & violēt deflourings of the wiues & daughters of the Americanes, & in al such incogitable & exe­crable vilainy, as if they had bin Divels and infernall spirites, let loose and sent from hell, to the desolation of those countries.

12 These matters grew so horrible, that the Captaines who were more civil, cōplained of it first to K. Ferdinandus, & afterward to Charles the 5. Emperor, & K. of Spaine: the poore Friers that had bin there, ran with open mouth to divers of the Popes, desiring their mediation, and that for Christianities sake it might be amê­ded. The writers, as Decad. 3. 8. & 5. 9. & [...] 4. Benzo. li. 1. 25. Pet. Martyr of Millaine, Benzo, Bartholo­meus de Casa & other, haue never done in reproving it, & crying out vpon it. All this while heere is scant any speech of baptizing any, or bringing thē to Christ: that which was done, was only by the Friers: & it being hastily administred, & without al soūd vn­derstāding of the misteries of salvatiō, did so litle prevaile in truth with the ignorāt Infidels, that they oftentimes Benzo. l. 1 c. 13. reviled the God of the Christiās, affirming that he must needs be a wicked God, which kept such naughty servants: & therevpon renounced & reneaged their Christianity. So that the Spanyards should bee so far, frō making any boast by themselues or their friends, that they haue there converted soules, that if there do remaine any sparke of grace in them, as in charity we hope there doth, they may iust­ly feare, that the everlasting destruction there of innumerable soules, will be laid to their charge, and the bloud of them will be required at their handes, either by some severe punishment on them or their posterity in this worlde, or by the cōdemnation in another world, of the souls of as many as haue bin gilty thervnto, & haue dyed without repētaunce. Wheras at the first, with their Christian behavior, & mālike vsage, they might haue won many frō their Gētilisme, & if they had not infected thē with Antichri­stiā superstitiō, they might haue bin means to help thē to heavēs what store of those Ethnicks ofspring is left in those parts, which the Spaniards do posses, may be gathred frō a proportiō takē out [Page 202] of Hispaniola, which is one of the biggest Ilands be hither Ame­rica. Benzo a great traveiler was there, and spent much time in those partes. Heare then what he saith: Nova no­vi orbis hi­storia, l. 25 By the intolerable cruelty of the Spanyardes it is brought to passe in Hispaniola, that of two millions of the Indians, that is twenty hundred thousand persons, by whom that I­land was inhabited, some being slaiue by their owne handes, and some beee­ing killed and wasted, by the cruelty of the Sp [...]yardes and the bitternesse of their workes, there are scant remaining at this day a hundred and fif­ty. The words are somwhat obscure in the close, whither he mea­neth a hundred and fifty persons, or a hundred and fifty thou­sand; although I rather take it to be the former. I finde also else­where by a Additā 9. partis Ame­ric [...]. pag. 44 travailer mentioned, that in one city of those We­sterne parts, the name wherof is Imperiall there were before the comming of the Christians thither, three hundred thousand In­dians inhabiting, of whō about 20. armed Spanyards by such de­vises as they had, did kil 2. hundred thousand. And what is since become of the rest we may iudge. If these should be thought to be partial, harken to the Iesuit who cōpiled the book called Nona pars America. This then is his relation: The principall cause wherfore Nova Hispania is very much vn inhabited, is this, that very few escaped Lib. 3. 22. whē it at first was possessed by the Spanyards. Our M. Watson speaketh as plaine as the best Quod. 8. 6 The treatise of that worthy Bishop Bartholomeus Cusaus (a Spantards borne) dedicated to the last king of Spaine, hath laide the Spanish proceedings amongst the West Indians, so plainely out in their colours: how many millions of men, womē, & childrē, they haue there mur­thred: & that with such inhumane barbarensues, & much more thē Pha­lerical cruelty, as vntil they do repent thē, & are become a new generatiō, all kingdomes & countries in the world are to pray at the least to bee deli­vered frō thē. By al which it is plain, that the now. dwellers in those parts of America which are said to be Christiā, are few others but Spaniards, who taking thither their wiues & daughters, are much multiplied within these hundred years; the men making no spare to beget children any way, after the Spanish fashion. But as tou­ching the naturals of the Country, first there are few left among them. Secondly those who be there, being in truth no better thē vassals, slaues & drudges to the Spanyards, come on slowly to be baptised. And thirdly they who for feare or fashion come, doe in [Page 203] hart hate them & their religion, & lacke but opportunity to re­volt Quod. 5. 4 frō thē: And this is the propagating of the faith which they haue made in the West Indies. Looke what they haue there Spa­nish, so much haue they Popish. In the vpper part of Peru they haue somwhat, in the like sort as before I haue shewed; but down toward Magellanes straights, as also in Brasile which properly be­longeth to the Portingales, they haue only here & there a castle, or little towne standing on the sea coast; but in the In-land they haue very litle. And in these Castles, looke what devotion their owne people haue, that is papisticall: but the men of those parts, meddle not with them more then they must needes, and vvith their religion not at all.

13 And for the East Indies thus the matter stādeth. The coūtry of the Portingales being but dry and barren, & the people more then well could be maintained thervpō, Osor. de gest. Ema­nuel. lib. 1. Henry their king who dyed in the yeare 1460 was willing to imploy some of his mē, to discover by Sea the West side of Afrike down toward the South. And having done somewhat that way, the next king succeeding him but one, that is to say Iohn the son of Alphonsus proceeded yet farther, & opened even to the Promontory or Cape by him called Caput Bonae Spei. King Emanuel the Great Portingale who succeeded Iohn, did sēd out 1497. Vascus Gama with some few ships, to compasse this Cape, & passing toward the East, to salle as far as Calicut in India. Where arriving, & not long after pretending an earnest desire to enter trafficke betweene the two nations, to the inriching of thē both, the Portingales intreated, that for their safeties sake they might haue leaue to build them a little Castle; giving out that they werein much danger otherwise, as partly frō the subiects of the king of Calicut, so especially from the Saracēs who envied their trading into those partes, as preiudicial to their former cōmodity. This Castle they furnished with armour & or­dinance, which was then scant knowne in those parts, & therfore was lesse able to be resisted. And to this place every yeare they sent new supplies of mē out of Europe. As they did at Calicut, so proceeding in time, on more and more to the East, they every wher erected their castles & fortresses, the drift wherof the kings of the coūtries at the first did not perceiue: but afterward to their [Page 204] cost finding howe themselves were annoyed, they desired to re­medy it whē it was too late. Besides this, the Portingales finding discord betweene the pety Princes of those partes, they secretely stickled that forward, as between the Kings of Calicut, Cananor, Cochimum & other: & where they saw advantage, they gave o­pen assistāce to one party: by which meanes they wasted the In­dians, & procured to thēselves much reputatiō of valure, mē stā ­ding in dread of them for their suttlety, ordinance & good ship­ping. Their incrochments so encreased, that they got into their hands some cities, as Goa, which now they have made their Me­tropolis, or imperial residence for their Vice-roy; yea they have set footing into some of the Iles of the Moluccoes. And since the time that al these, togither with the crown of Portingale it self, is come into the possessiō of the Spanish King as cheefe Lord, Spa­nyards have come about frō the West side of America through the South sea, & they giving assistance to the Portingales they betweene thē haue grasped yet more, although still the manag­ing of al about Goa & those coasts, be by Portingales, vnlesse the King of Spaine have prevailed lately so much, as to gaine in that power frō thē But all this was first gottē, & since it is kept by the sword; howsoever that cogging lesuit Contra Chytraeum vt supra. Possevinus to make a mi­racle of it, do avouch the contrary. Their owne stories writen by De gest. Eman. Osorius & Histor. re­rum Indi­car. Masseus, do make it plaine, & he who wil but reade the Diensis oppugna­tio. Seege of D [...]um, written by Damianus a Goes, wil be satisfi­ed for ever. Their manner is in their townes and Castles to stand on their gard against sodaine assault: and if any by open hostility do in vade them, (as the great Turke & some of the coūtry haue done) they doe not only strengthen themselues, with such helpe as they cā get out of Europe, if the time do permit, but they send to the Vice-roy, who draweth aide frō all places within his regi­ment, & with the readiest diligence that he can releeveth them.

14 This course having cōtinued now full out a hūdred yeeres, & they being there seated so long with their wiues, & with their children (whom aftter the Spanish & their owne country fashion they be get a paces and the King yeerely sending to them out of Europe, to no small commodity of his, by the bringing home of spice and other rich commodities of the Indies [...] yea and aide not [Page 205] wanting to them from America, and the Iles beyond it, as the Philippinas, Manilla and some more thereabout, they are stronge in those partes, especially against the attemptes of any small and pety Prince, as they all are who bee in the East Indies; some king having not forty miles over in all his dominion, and no one ha­ving very much. But heere the Portingales themselves have little or nothing vp into the lande: but what they have is on the sea coast, and some little way about it: farther they dare not offer. Now the wōderful extent of the Romish faith thus spokē of, cō ­sisteth in these Portīgals & the Spaniards that come to thē: for as for the naturals of the coūtry, they keep close to their heathenish beleife: some worshipping the Sun, some adoring other Idols of their own. But such a fācy they cary to the religiō of the Portin­gals, whose mischievous suttlety & incrochīg rapine is odious vn­to thē, that scant any of them do participate of their devotiō; but wold gladly if they could tel how, be ridde of their cōpany, yea if they might do it by cutting al their throats. And wheras boast al­so is made of the vttermost parts of Afrike, that is much lesse then the Indies; the Spaniards & Portingals having only here & there, a castle stāding vpō a cōveniēt watering place, to vitaile & refresh their sea-faring men passing to & frō the East Indies. These pety fortresses stād in divers regiōs indeed, as in Mosābique, Melinde, Ma­gadoxe, Manicōgo, yet they are but very triflles in cōparison, al the people of the coūtries being either Infidels, or such Christians as hold the faith of Osor. lib. 9. Damian. a Goes de morib. Ae­thiop. Prester Iohn, but cōsort not with the cōmuniō of the Bishop of Rome. As for Iaponia how the Iesuits haue circū ­vēted their simplicity I have shewed before. They boast much of their cōversiō there, & many Epistles are by Select [...] pistol. ex India. Maffcus collected to that purpose. But he was one of thēselves; & how vain-gloriously they vse to lie touching their own acts in Europe, we are wel in­structed: therfore of those far-distāt places they may tel vs what tales they wil, as also of their miracles there (which in the nexte chap shalbe discussed) & every mā may beleive his part. Certaine it is that in Iapā or Iapania, by their cūning & cousēing shews of casting out devils, they have more Additam. 9: part. A­merica [...]. prevailed vpon the govern­mēt of the country, thē in any other place of the world; & yet I may say, what mā, I say not Prīce or great personag, but what one [Page 206] hath appeared in Europe, out of all the company of the Iaponi­ans or other Easterne Indians, who might publikely yeelde an account of his faith, & giue testification by an orderly acknowe­ledgement of his hope, that he belongeth rightly to the flock of Christ Iesus? It is not sufficient to salvation, for an ignorant persō to be baptised into he cannot tel what, or to be taught by rote to mumble vp a few praiers, wherof he vnderstandeth no part, or to vse a paire of beads with nothing but superstition: or to fal down before a Crucifixe: when the manner of our Redemption, & the course of our Iustification, is no more knowne to him thē to very beasts. And how their care is to instruct their pretended cōverts, in those far distant regions, may well be cōceived by that, which they informe to their own countrymen living there-about, who are much more furnished with wicked devises, leading them the ready high way to dānation, then with ought which belongeth to true Christianity. For example sake within these three or four yeares, Ibid. p. 75. some Hollāders passing the South sea, came neere to the Iland Manilla, where certaine Spaniards then inhabiting, would needs entertaine them with an eager fight at sea. Divers of these warriours entring the Hollanders ship were slaine, & among thē there were fiue found, who had about them certain boxes of sil­ver. Which being opened, there were in thē little rowles or sche­dules beset with charmes or diabolicall consecrations, whereby they supposed themselues safe frō all weapons. For, saith the Au­thor, they are oftentimes instructed by their Priests concerning suching­ [...]ing trickes, whereby it commeth to passe, that by their divelish superstiti­ons, such as haue sworne faith to the Pope in these places, are much more defiled, then very they who line in the middle of Rome or Spaine. With what acornes are these Nuoves Christianes fedde, when in these remote regions Spanyards thēselues are dieted with such husks? This is the propagation of Christianity whereof you speake; the abusing and profaning of the Sacrament of Baptisme, by com­municating it to them, whose best profession is ignorance, super­stition, idolatry, & wilfull obstinacy against the truth, if it should be reveiled vnto them.

ANd to name somewhat more in particular some Countries, in which it is happily received of many, of not vniversally of all, but yet in ma­ny lands it is received of the greatest part of the inhabitants, in Goa, in Malabar, in Cochin, in Bazain, in Colā, in Tana, in Damā, in Ciaul, in Coran, in Salsetta, in Pescaria, in Manar, in Travācor, in Cogiro, in Bugen, in Cicungo, in Cicugne, in Oian, in Gomotto, in Gensu­ra, in Xichi, in Ormuz, in Ternate, in Momoia, in Ambonio, in Ma­cazar, in Cerignano, in Siligan, in Butuan, in Pimilirā, in Camigu, in Supa, in Stan, in Bacian, in Solar, in Malacca, in Tidor, in Selebi, and in the Ilands of S. Thomazo, S. Domingo, Madera, & in al those innumerable Islands which the king of Spaine there possesseth. So that the Catholike Romane religion hath had, and hath yet a far greater sway in the world, then any othar religion ever had or hath.

15 Our Papists do imagine that they haue to do with none but fools, & therfore they think to serue thē therafter. They beleeue that if we heare a few great words lustily būbasted we wil stoope saile, & [...] sently come in, as ships vnder a Castle, for fear of a peale of ordinance. Such a devise was that, when to credit Abdisu the Patriarke before named, and in him the Popes prerogatiue, Gentill. in exam. Con­cil. T [...]dēt. Sess, 21. they gaue strange & formidable names to the Bi­shopricks & Arch-bishopricks fained to be vnder him, as Sirava, Hancava, Meschiara, Chiarucbia, Cuchia, Durra, Goa, Salamas, Bau­mar, Schiabathan, Vastan, Calicuth, Mac [...]hazin, Carangol, and other such braue appellations, which being like coniuring words when any one should heare, he durst not for one daies space come with in forty foote of the stake. Is not this somewhat like that of the bragging souldiour, Plautus in Milite glo­rioso. in campis Gurgustidonijs

I tel you D. Hil, such devises as this of yours, is but for children, when out of some Portingale merchants remembrances, or from [Page 208] the Index of some writer, or some such other mocke, matter, you tel vs what towns, or angels of the maine, or what litle Ilands, the Portingales haue thēselues in the East Indies, [...]or some of the Ie­suits haue gone thither, or some pedlers haue bin in the markets there. A towne with you is a city, a city a coūtry, a skirt of some li. tle province, is a land or a kingdome, an Ilande like Garnesey or Gersey, is a matter as much as Sicely or great Britaine: one in the quality of a gentlemā is a Prince; a pety cōmander like a meane West-Indian Cacike, is a potent king or Emperour. You begin with Goa as if it were some huge region, wheras it is but a Maffcus Hist. Indic. li. 4. city, appointed indeed by Albuquercius, to be the Impettall chāber for the dominion of the Portingales in the East Indies. It stan­deth on the hither side of India, some thing North frō Calicut, on the Westerne side of that great Promontory, which is nee­rest of al India to Ormus, and to the Persian bay or Gulfe. Idem lib. 1 Osor. lib. 2. Ma­labar is the general name of the Coūtry toward the bottome of the Promontory before mēcioned, the chiefe city wherof is Ca­lecut. Maf. lib 1. Cochin is the city of a poore Prince by Calecut. Li. 9. Bazain a towne of Cambaia, 5 or 6. daies iourny Nothward frō Goa. Lib. 2. Co­ian a city distant frō Cochin 24. leagues toward the South. Lib. 9. Tana or Tanaba a litle towne nere Bazain. Lib. 11. Daman another town nere it, being on the coast of Cābaia; Lib. 4. Ciual, or Chanla a city fast by those last spokē of. Lib. 14. Corā is the temple of Ma [...]met at Ormus: but you mean Lib. 2. Coromandel in India, where it is said that S. Thomas the A­postle did long agoe preach. Lib 11. Salsetta is a little Iland lying neere Bazain. It should seeme that there is more then one of thē. Lib: 3. & 12 Pes­caria or Piscaria is a little sea coast about the bottome of Malaca, & lyeth more toward the East. Lib. 12. Manar a little Iland nere there­vnto. Lib. 12. Travācor a small kingdome on the west side of the lowest part of Malaca. Of Cogiro, Bugen, (vnlesse you meane Lib. 12. Bunge a pety kingdome in Iapan) Cicungo & Cie [...]gne I finde no mention, euhere there be no such places, or they be so base, that no good Au [...]hour doth mention them, or els you haue mis-written them. Lib. 3. Oia or Oian is a meane city neere Melinde in Africke. Your Gomotto perhaps is put for Lib. 12. Goto, or Gotum a small Ilande nere Iapan. So I take your Gensura to bee, and the rather because it is put nexte. Xich [...], or Ibidem. Xich [...]cum, one of the three [Page 209] chiefe parts of Iapan. Lib. 3. Ormuz we know to be an iland and city, neere the entrance into the gulfe of Persia. Lib. 5. Ternate is one of the fiue Molucco Ilands, and so is Lib. 10. Tidor also which anone fol­loweth. Momoia is a towne in a little Ile called Morum, Ambo­nio or rather Lib. 5. Amboinus is a small Ile neere the Moluccos. So it Lib. 10. Macazar. Not far from thence is Lib. 10. Cetigano, you terme it Cerigna­no, one of the Ilands called Celebes, Siligan is a town, Butuan, Pi­ [...]iliran, and Camigu three things called kingdomes, but all these Ibidem. foure within the Ile Mindanaus. Lib. 12. Supa is a small place nere [...] Si­an, and that is an Iland & towne beyond the Promontory of Ma­laca, turning vp farre to the North. Lib. 8. Bacian, is one of the Moluc­cos. Solar or rather Lib. 16. Solor is an Ile about 300. leagues frō Malaca, being 8. degrees distant from the Aequator, toward the South. Lib. 1. Malacca is a citty in that Promontory of India, which was wont to be called Aurea Chersonesus, & is now tearmed Malaca of the city. Selebi or rather Lib. 8. Celebes is principally one Iland nere the E­quinoctial, but other adioining haue that name cōmunicated to thē. Thus haue we ended all that be nere to the East Indies. The Iland of S. Osor. Hist. li 3. Thomazo or S. Thomas, lyeth directly vnder the Ae­quinoctial line, over against that part of Africa which is tearmed Manicongo, or rather a little higher thē it. That which you name S. Domingo is it which in Latin is called Pet. Mart. Decad. 1. 2. Dominica, having that appellation given to it, because it was discovered on a Sunday, which in Latin is named Dies Dominicus. It lieth toward America but much neerer vs then Hispaniola doth: and it was one of the Ilands where the Caribes or Canibals did dwell, before the com­ming of Colūbus toward the West Indies. [...]d. Decad. 1. l. 6. Madera is one of the fortunat or Canary Ilāds, lying some few daies iourny South-west ward frō Spaine. You might if it had pleased you, haue added the rest of the Canaries, and the Azores, as also all that lie neere A­merica, as Cuba and Hispaniola, and many about them; also the Philippinas, and I cannot tell what. But my conceite is that you went no farther, because the Author or Copy which you follow­ed wēt no farther. For I deale plainly with you, I do not hold you gilty of the knowing where al these places be. And yet it were no huge labor, in the reading over of such an Authour, as the Hist. India aut select. Epistol. Iesuit Maffeus is, to take the wordes heere and there as hee relateth [Page 210] the comming in of the Portingales, or the pretended labours of his felowes. But I smell it to be borrowed from some other man, as your Ratiō, 3. enumeratiō of Heretikes was from Staphilus. In which respect I call to minde howe once on a New-yeares day in the morning, a Parish-Clarke in Oxford brought to the Minister of that Parish, certaine Latin verses as a token for the Newe yeare. The Minister seeing them, before he reade them said, that hee thāked him for his paines, but added that he did not thinke, that he could haue made a Latin verse. The Clarke with an humble smile looking on, did no way deny but that the verses were his owne. But when the other had reade them, he altered his opini­on, and tolde him that they were taken out of a Printed booke. It is true indeede saith the Clarke, but Sir, I tooke the paines to write them out for you. Even so much paines have you taken, ig­norantly from some ignorant fellowes collections, to write these names out for vs.

16. I am induced to think so, not only because you have play­ed such pageants before, but much rather because a sober man may wel thinke that if you had known what you did, or had had any true vnderstāding of the matter, you wold never have made such a clatter to so small a purpose. For it may well be supposed that there be no such places, as some are named by you: some o­ther of them are so meane, as that to this day they never could finde place in any mappe whatsoever published to the worlde. Onely they are mentioned by one Iesuite, who cannot lye; and he maketh every meane man a King: if he once parled with a Ie­suite he shall want no title. You have reckoned vs vp heere one and forty names, many of them in themselves small base and in­feriour things, & if diverse of them be ordinarily tearmed King­doms, yet the whol coūtry is not so great as a prety shire in Eng­land, & some of the Ilands are as meane as the Ile of Wight is. If you will stand on it that these be kingdomes, yet wee can make you answere, that very many of the Kings of the East coūtry, are Lordes but as over moale-hils, and so it was some thousands of yeeres agone. Gen. 14. 2. You may reade of the King of Sodome, and of the Kinge of Gomorah, as also of the Kinge of Admah, and of the Kinge of Zeboim, and yet all these lived vvithin a small [Page 211] compasse of ground. For the one and forty names which you note vnto vs, you may reade of Iosu. 12. 9. one and thirty Kinges indeede, with whom Iosuah had to deale, and yet all their dominion was so within Canaan, that the territories of all their regiment, was not so much as England alone, without Scotland ioyned to it. And yet if an ignorant man shoulde heare the names of all those Kinges, as they are set downe by Iosua, he would looke as much about him, as one of your silie Papists doth at those heere in your booke. To let them therefore know how you egregiously abuse them, you haue said as much as if I should speake in this sort. His Maiesty of England hath a great many good subiects (I begin to give the instance in Suffex, because I heare that this Pam­phlet is much in request among backward people there) as in the great city of Chichester, in Arundel, in Rye, and in many other good places there about. Also in Sandwich with all the Cinque portes and the liberties of the same, yea in the Iles of Shepy, and Tenet, with other lying at the landes end fast by Essex, yea adde herevnto Hul & New-castle vpon Tine & the strong towne of Barwike. And if a man should tel this to some vnlettered Italian who lyeth a great way hence, he might be made to wonder: but the truth were no very high matter. Thus it is with these places named, which are onely cities, townes or angles standing along the sea coast, vpon the shore of the Indies, and interrupted or in­tersorted with heathenish dominions, or else they are Ilands in the selfe same quality. And in many of these, if there were some said to be baptised 20. or 40. yeares agone, or if there be now but 5. Portingales or Spanyards, which keepe a shop or ware-house, yet there is the Romish faith. Which our Author who never vseth but to cast at All, as it seemeth doth acknowledg, whē cōtrary to his custome he hath an extenuation, It is happilie received of many though not vniversall of all, And whē he saith in many lands it is recei­ved of the greatest part of the inhabitāts, he meaneth not that the na­turals do accept of it, but the Spanyards & Portingals have killed the greatest part of them, and now they themselves do make the maior part. This advantage you have for your words D. Hill, but yet notwithstanding all your fraud and facing, we conclude that your Poperie is not predominant as you make it, for put it alto­gither [Page 212] (if I should say nothing of that which we teach, but leave it wholy to God and his good blessing) Gentilisme is yet by ma­ny degrees more then all the Papisme in the world, and Maho­metisme in Barbary, in Turky, in Persia, and in the dominions of all those who hold for that false Prophet doth exceede it. And yet the great propagatiō of Ethnicisme or Saracenisme doth not make them to bee in the right; neither doth the same evince in behalfe of your Romane fancies, but that only must go for truth which hath warrant out of the Scriptures.

AND vvorthy it is to bee noted that in no land or countrey vnder heaven, ever was or is any persecution of any moment against Pa­pists (as you terme them) or against the Priestes of that Religion, in regard that they be Papists or Priests made by authority from the Sea of Rome, but onely in England. And in very deede the vvhole vvorld doth wonder, that little England dare and is not ashamed to doe that, which ne­ver vvas seene in the vvorld before: for let a Seminary Priest (as they call him) keepe him out of England, and he is safe inough in any region vnder heaven. This I say by the way, for that it grieveth mee at the very hart, to beare that my deare countrey doth persecute that religion which all the vvorld hath ioyfully embraced, or at the least doth vvillingly tollerate, as though shee were wiser then all the world beside is, or ever hath beene, or then al her Elders. Or as though English Protestants knew and saw more, then all the vvhole learned men of Christendome have done for so manie ages together.

17 IT should seeme that by this time in the shewing of your mē, you have spēt al your powder: for frō hēce to the end of this presēt Reasō, you talke like a good fellow, in more familiar sort, leaning on the nose of your peece, somewhat an­gry, but will not fight. Howe your Pseudo-Catholikes in Eng­land live afflicted and persecuted, not onely our bookes Execution of Iustice. A Letter to Mendoza. de­claring a truth, but the matter it selfe sensiblie doth speake. [Page 213] They lye well, and they farewel, and many of them do purchase and encrease their lively-hood, yea some by your leave finde meanes to extraordinary lasciviousnes. The bigger sort of them are by the monethly mulct vpon them so punished, that besides that they have for much idle expence, they can by bribes keepe spies about great personages, they can give large giftes to winne their private purposes, they cā haue their cursetors al the Realme over to give and take intelligence, they can releive Prisoners, they can maintaine diverse Iesuites, like such gallants and swag­gerers as requireth for each some hundred pounds by the yeare. And yet in searches sometimes more ready mony and good golde is, founde in their custody, then ordinary men of their quality can be maisters of. To these thinges they attaine by kee­ping no house or very little, vnder a shew that for their consci­ence they pay all away. I thinke that you your selfe wil confesse, that in Queene Maries daies men of our Religion could not live so quietly, although they had nothing to obiect against them, but that they beleeved not the article of Transubstantiation. Now for Priests, that they have bin more looked vnto, the reasō is sppatant. The examples of 1. Reg. 18. 40. Elias ill intreating Baals Priests, & of 2. Reg. 23. 20. Iosias so serving other of like disposition, as also of Cap. 10. 25 Iehu pro­ceeding in the same course shewe that wolves and destroying foxes if they will not keepe from the flocke, must be woorried: that is, must be cut off by the sword of the magistrate. Otherwise shall the perishing soules of the flocke bee required at the civill shepe-heards hande, as well as they are exacted of the spirituall pastour for negligence. But howe rough the state generally hath bin to such, may be coniectured by their hasting hither, fiftye in a D. Elyes notes on the Apolo­gy fol. 211. yeare out of Rhemes alone. Also by the sending away of Harte, Pilcher and many other, where of some were already con­dēned, & other by law were to suffer: yet their lives were granted vnto the & they only were banished their coūtry, frō whēce they had volūtarily exiled thēselues for divers years before. thirdly by the keeping of so many of thē at Wishbich & Framingl [...]ā, some for 10. years, some for 20, wher al was so to their wil, that they had leysure to fall out who shold be Relation of stirres at Wisbich. greatest amōg thē, & sit highest at table, yea to Apolog, cap. 6. feast, to bowze, to game, to fight, yea as since it is [Page 214] expressed in plainer wordes, to fall top dicing, drunkennes yea and whoredome, fit exercises for men who would be taken to be designed martyrs. And if some few of them have suffered, let all sober men iudge, whither the state had not cause to proceede so with them, whose minds were discovered so plainly beyond the seas. The excōmunication of Pius the 5. was procured at Rome by the instigation of some of our own countri-men, & thervpō a rebelliō was raised. Sander. lib. 7. de vi­sib Monar. Concertat. li [...]cle Ca­thol. in An­gl. Part 1. Felton is cōmended for fastēing vp the Bul at the Bishop of Londons gate. And it is held as his praise, that hee called the Queene no otherwise but by the name of the pretended Queene. Sanders also ordinarily vseth that phrase against her. And it is held as a glory in Doctor Story, that writing to his wife he be­stowed no other title on her. Such as suffered for the rebellion in the Noth are tearmed Ibidem. Martyrs, & so is Brist. Mo­tiv. 1 [...]. Felton also. These mat­ters are compiled togither in the booke called, Edit. An­guste [...]re­viror. 1588. Concertatio Ec­clesiae Catholica in Anglia, out of which I will gather two or three flowers more. It is saide as a praise; of Everard Hanse, that being asked of the Bull of Pope Pius he answered, I hope hee did not erre in his sentence. Hee saide I hope, because that declaration was not doctrinal, and therefore there might be an errour. Speaking of Iames Laborne executed at Lancaster, it is related as a Catholike acte in him, that E. Sander. de Schism. Lib 3. he tooke two exceptions, why Lady Elizabeth was not Queene, one by reason of her birth, the other for that she was deprived by the Pope. Mentioning the story of one Fenne, it is vrged that the dignity of S^t. Peters successour was conferred vpon a profane woman. Afterward these verses are set on her sa­cred Maiestie.

And lastly this is bestowed vpon her, Elizabetha scelerum caput. These thinges being writen by diverse of them beyond the seas, do argue what spirit was among our Divines there. If we wil have more proofe of the faithful harts of our male contented fugitives, toward our late Princesse, let vs looke on the words closely cou­ched of the Rhemists in diverse places: As that about Annot, in 2. Ioh. 10. Heretikes excōmunicated by name, what things men are to withdraw from thē. And let the traiterous actions of thē in our Realme, expoūd [Page 215] that covert speech of Iezabel In Apoc. 2. 20. elsewhere. But in steed of al, let the Action attempted against this kingdome heere in the yeare 1588, speake, which was vehemently vrged by our Priestes a­broade, and the people to the beste of their povver fitted for it at home.

18 If these generalities do not yet satisfy, thē let it be remēbred, where these Seminary Priests are brought vp, & how, flying frō their native soile in the highest discōtentment, they goe into the dominiōs of the Pope & King of Spaine, to whō howmuch Eng­land hath bin beholding, a blind mā may almost see. At their ex­pēce they are maintained, who in behalfe of their charges looke for some service again. And vnder whō have they their educatiō? Vnder men Iesuited as nowe D. Worthington the Rectour of the College at Doway is, or vnder the Iusuits thēselves, of whose ver­tues I have before spokē. To their Governours by othe they owe obediēce, & of liklihood at their returne they take their directiō frō thē. Now what maner of mē these be, Allen who was long the Rectour of the College at Rhemes, & Persons now Governour of the Seminary at Rome, may declare. Cōcerning Allē, our Secular Priests of late displaying the Iesuites, do labour to extenuate the malice and poisonful behaviour of that hungry Cardinal, but his works are extant, testifying that there was never any man more virulent in hart against the state of England thē he was. Apolog. cap. 11. Persons reckoneth vp four of his bookes, The Answere to the English Iustice, The defence of the twelve martyrs in one yeare, The Epistle allowing Sir VVilliam Stanleyes delivery vp of Daventry, And the Declaration a­gainst her Maiestie and the State in the yeare 1588. In the first of these, the Chap. 2. protestatiō of Laborn before mētioned, is remēbred; that by other Papists, as occasiō should serve, it might be imitated. And the whol treatise howsoever it seeme to be more closely cō ­veied then ordinary, is forced with pestilent calūniations: Of the same nature is the whole subiect of the second, pēned of purpose to direct mēs affectiō frō the state. The third is a litle Pamphlet, short but not sweet, maintaining the treasōful actiō of Sir William Stāley by many an vn-Christiā cēsure, & most slaūderous imputa­tiō. As for Allens an­swere 1584: exāple, That our country is fallen into Atheisme. That the Queenes confederacies were only & alwaies with Christs enemies. That [Page 216] the warres of the English in the low Countries were sacrilegious warres, and of a hereticall Prince. And because he wil be like himselfe, hee goeth on, That all the actes in this Realme since the Queene was excō ­municated and deposed from regall dignity are voide: therfore shee can de­notence no warre, neither may her subiects there serve her, when a Prince is become an open Rebell to the See Apostolike He wish [...]h that the rest of the English souldiours would doe as they with Sir VVilliam Stanley did. He saith that the English take no quarrels in handes, but for the di­shonorable defence of Rebels, Pyrates and Infidels. I doe of purpose heere omitte many vile and execrable speeches by him added, least the very rehearsing of them might iustly be offensive. But the wicked man did make no cōscience to staine his whole coū ­trey with horrible defamations. I would heare any Secular in the vvorlde vvho can excuse this cursed fellovve. The fourth was printed in Englishe, and should have beened vulged, if the Spanyardes coulde have sette footing in England in the yeare 1588. Hee vvho list to see it, may finde it vvorde for vvorde in Belgic. Histor l. 15. Meterranus. Amonge other matters there are these. Our Soveraigne then beeing, is called the Pretended Queene, and the present vsurper. Shee must be deprived of the administration of the kingdome. Shee is an Heretike, a Schismatike, excommunicate, contumacinis, vsurping the kingdome against all right as for other causes so because shee had not the consent of the greate Bishoppe of Rome. Shee mooved the Turke to invade Christendome. Shee hath sette at sale and made a ma [...] of Lavves and rightes. Some of her factes make her vncapable of the kingdome, some other make her vnvvorthie of life. Therefore Pope sixtus the fifth doth renew the excommunication against her, and doth deprive her of her title and preteaces to the kingdomes of Englande and Ireland, declaring her illegitimate and an vs [...]per, and absolving all her subiectes from the [...]th of sidelity toward her. Then he chardgeth all to withdraw their [...]de from her, that worthy punishment may be taken of her, and that they [...]e themselues with the Duke of Parma. Also it is proclaimed lawfull [...]y hands vpon vpon the Queene, and a very great reward is promi­sed to those who do so. A safe conduct is then given to as many as wil bring [...]ny w [...] like provision to the Spanish campe, and to all who woulde assist that enterprise, the Pope doth by Indulgence giue full pardon and plenary [Page 217] remission of all their sinnes. If these things doe not sufficiently shew the viperous minde of this lewde Cardinall against his Prince & Country, nothing in the world can manifest it. His dis Englished woolvish desire was, that his naturall place of educatiō, for which the old heathēs would haue lost ten thousand liues, should haue beene in the everlasting bondage of the Spanyard. Our Seculars then commending and excusing him to their powers, are pitiful­ly out: but the error of them, and of some English gentlemen­travailers was this, that they imagined him in his latter yeares to be altered; when indeede it was nothing else, but that after the yeare 88, his hopes being deluded, and neither Pope nor Spani­arde nor all their adherentes knowing how to remedy or recover that inestimable losse, and incomparable dishonour vnto them, his hart was as good as broken; and he would seeme more desi­rous to shew all tolerability, to single men of our English nation, that he might haue some grace with thē, since he began to haue so little with the Spanyard. But doubtlesse venime had so putrisi­ed him, that although he were willing to paint himselfe without, he was quite rottē within. And whither for wāt of his prety staru­ling pensiō frō Spaine, after that illustrious foile, he might not be much humbled in the heigth of his prowd thoughts, it is hard to tel. Such a māner of man was one of the fathers of the Seminary.

19 As for Persons the present Rector, his mind is nothing in­feriour to the others, albeit his degree be in a ranke behinde him. But that is his owne fault too, for his The co­pies of cer­taine dis­courses ex­torted fol. 116. fellowes here tell vs, that it vvas reported heere in Englande that all the boyes at Saint Omars had conspired to make Persons a Cardinall, and had vvritten such effe­ctuall letters to the Pope for it, that hee, the Generall of the Iesuites, and all his friendes in Rome, vvere little enough to keepe him from beeing a Cardinall. VVell his hearte for Englande is as good, as any of his Predecessours. Answere to thinges cōcerning him in the Apology. Doctour Bagsh [...]vve sayeth di­rectly that hee perswaded the Students at Rome, that they should have at state and all; for vvith state-medling they coulde but die: and die they shoulde vvithout state medling, if they were taken. If vvee vvill not trust that Doctor, as one professing some hostility toward him, let his Greene-coate concerning the Earle of Leicester, & another Common-wealth of his touching another greate and vvorthy [Page 218] man that dead is, speake in their masters behalfe. His Doleman sheweth him to haue nothing in him, but bastard English bloud. And that is the more manifested, by his labouring the Students in Spaine, and at Rome, to consent to the title of the Lady In­fanta. What affection he cariyed to our late most blessed Sove­raigne, his short but substantiall approving of the iudgement of Allen, Sanders, Bristow and Stapleton touching the Bull of Pius the 5. in his Cap. 4. Ward-word doth declare. It is also laid to his charge, that he sollicited a man of Quodl. 7. 2 high place in this kingdome, to be a close Pensioner to the late king of Spaine to further his invasi­sion. He Apol. c. 12. challengeth to himselfe these bookes, The reasons of re­fusall of going to the Protestants Churches, the Epistle of persecution both in Latin and English, the defence of the Censure against M. Charke: and these shew that all his wits and study were then bent, on the one side to supplant the religion that we professe, but on the o­ther side to defame the honour of his Prince, and country, and of all the chiefe officers of Iustice in the same, and with such suttle­tics to steale away the harts of many subiects from them. His re­solutions Solutio­nes [...]. & P. in his pretended Cases of conscience, as they are im­pious, so are they most pernicious to the state. But the lesse they are there to be wondred at, since he openly laboureth in [...]. [...]. 1 [...]. his A­pology, to mainetaine falshoods and lying dissembling A qui­vocations, with little lesse then blasphemy to our most holy Sa­viour. His Manifestatiō hath many proper things in it, as being that where he sheweth himselfe without a vizarde. This is hee who hath had in Spaine, and nowe hath at Rome the training vp of those vvho are and must bee our Seminarye Priestes; the only Arch-traitour now remaining aliue, and to be balanced by none vnlesse peradventure, & it is but peradventure, D. Gifford may be the man. I might adde to these, as great men at Doway in their times, Bristow and Stapleton. The one sheweth himselfe a rebell in hart by his Cap. 15. Motiues, which booke D. Allen did allovv to the Presse. And how far the other that is old chollerike & bit­ter Stapleton, (the Apol. c. 9. learnest man living of our Countrey, if vve will beleeue Fa. Persons) was engaged in these matters, his ma­nifold virulent aspersions scattered in his bookes, against his na­turall Prince and some personages of high worth, do abundant­ly [Page 219] testifie. Such are the teachers, Readers, and Governours of the Seminaries, and such an honest man is Weston at Doway nowe if he be yet at Doway, where no doubt they traine vp their Stu­dents in good meditations. Which I may the rather say, if that be true which Colliar. one of their owne company delivered to me to bee so of his own knowledge, while he was there in D. Barrets time. As our Students in our Colledges haue vsed to make verses, and to fixe them vp on the skreenes or elsewhere publikely, on the day of her late Maiesties comming to the Crowne, so they had sometimes at Doway when they made verses in like sort, & whi­ther on the day before named I do not remember. In this case, the invention of one of their gracious strudents was, to speake of the three furies in hel, Alecto, Megaera, and Tisiphone, whose ver­tues when with his Poetry he had described, hee addeth at last that there was nowe of late a fourth come in, Furiarum Quarta, whose description he maketh accordingly. And this lewd devise was much commended by the Superiours there, albeit he plainly designed her, for whom by the laws of God & man, they vvere rather bound to haue spent their best bloud, then that the least dishonourable thought concerning her should haue entred into their h [...]t. And who will wonder that the fruites of such persons doe shew what the roote is whervpon they do sit. We may adde to these things abroad, the experience which wee haue had at home, of Babingtons, Somerviles, Squires and such vngodly mis­creants, who incited by Ballard, and other sent from the Semi­nary, haue attempted most horrible treasons, to the hazarding of the happines of this whole kingdome. And were not our state blind, if they could not gesse the minde of the souldiors by such captaines, the disposition of such scholers by their tutours, the affection of the Priests by such Superiours, especially since they dayly saw in our owne land, that such as had to doe with these emissaries and secret creepers, did testifie that they had touched some Eccl 13. [...] pitch, being quickly alienated if not in open action, yet in apparant affectiō from therest of the Realme? And might not all religious folkes haue groaned in their soules, & all good sub­iects haue lamented in their harts, if some severe proviso had not beene made, to restraine the audacious comming in, and the ra­venous [Page 220] dissipations of persons so intending mischiefe? It should haue beene an vnrecompensable weakenesse to haue permitted such incendiaries to bring all to combustion, and our magistrates in the meane time, to haue stood by the houses of themselues & their neighbours being on fire, and to haue thought it a pretty thing to stand and warme themselues by the flame. But they be­ing inspired by a better spirit, did make good & wholsome lawes, inhibiting the approaching of such dangerous guests, or if they would not forbeare, paying them the wages due for their worke. Ex malis moribus bonae nascuntur leges. Ill manners breede good lawes. And if England alone have received such bad measure from vnnatural bredde English, who can blame the Magistrates and law-makers of England, if by speciall ordinances they pro­vide for the safety of that charge, which is committed to them, which cannot be but by cutting off such malefactours. When o­ther kingdomes have beene so much burnte, they wil dreade the fire: when other nations have beene so bitten, they will beware of dogges teeth. What other countries would doe if there were cause, you may gesse by Fraunce, which standing yet on termes of Popery, have removed the Iesuites, so that if they wil come there it is on hazard of their life. I will sette downe the wordes; as they bee in the Decree of the Parliament of Paris against thē, that no man may doubt in that case: Iesuits Ca [...]h lib 3. cap. 18. The Court doth ordains that the Priests and Students of the College of Clai [...]mont, and all other calling themselues of that Society of Iesus, as corrupters of youth and disturbers of the common quiet, enemies of the King and State, shall avoide within three daies after the publication of this present sentence, out of Paris and other Cities, and places where their Colleges are, & fifteen dates after out of the Realme, vpon paine, wheresoever they shall be found, the said terme expired, to be punished at guilty and culpable of the crime of high Treason. And afterward, It forbiddeth all the Kinges subiects to send any scholers to the Colleges of the said Society being out of the Realme, there to bee in­structed, vpon the like paine to incurre the crime of high This de­cree was made [...] [...]mb. [...]. treason. Thus the Papists of Fraunce deale with the Iesuits, who are the bring­ers vp, brethren and cousin germaines of our Seminarians. If they keepe them out of Fraūce they are not touched or reached after, and so heere it is with the Idolatrous massing Priestes sent from [Page 221] the Pope of Rome who loueth vs vnmeasurablie, and from the dominions of the Kinge of Spaine, or those who depend vpon him. We neede them not, we send not for them, and therefore if they come, it is vpon their owne perill.

20 Yet because this proceeding seemeth to you to be so hard, & in your bookes in England & elsewhere published, you so ex­claime of the rigorousnes of our kingdome in this behalfe, I will a little remēber you, what milder mē of your own Seminaries have published in this matter, acknowledging that iustly by bookes & enterprises the State hath bin exasperated against you. I confesse that they lay al the blame on the Iesuits, & Iesuited: but those we cā hardly distinguish frō mē otherwise minded▪ And if we could it were to smal purpose, since the followers of the Arch-priest are al Iesuited, & as M. Persons saith they are Apolog. cap: 8: 300. to 10. of the other. Since thē the sway & sweepe goeth the other way, & for the ad­verse part we have no warrant but that they may leave their best goodnes whē thēselves wil, which Watson & Clerke have lately ex emplified, it is best to let the lawe stand against all, leaving the forbearance of stricte execution to the wisedome of those in au­thority, who incline to mercy vvhere it is fit to bee extended, One, A: C▪ in his 2: letter: pag. 42: who although he be not a Priest, yet was brought vp in the Seminary, saith thus: At the Queenes comming in many of vs were too soone turned so Iesuitish and Spanish, to the attempting of disloyall plots a­gainst her State & person, that shee was driven to trust wholy to her Pro­testants holding vs all suspect. And Ibid. p: 29: againe: The Iesuites outrage Prin­ces, as murthering the last Frēch King, & had done our deare Soveraigne sundry times if Gods hand had not beene the stronger. Another Reply to the Apolo­gy: cap: 17: telleth vs, that in the Colledges erected by the meanes of Parsons, Priests & other have bin induced to subscribe to forreine titles, yea & to come in person against their own coūtry. He who answereth the mani­festatiō supposed to be the writing of Persōs, acknowledgeth that D. Fol. 35. Saūders his works De visibili Monarchia, & De schismate Anglic, cōtain so many erreverēt speeches, & the divulging of such odius matters against her M^r. & her noble [...]genitours, as the vntruths of some & the incertain­ty of others cōsiderd, could not but irritat the most Christiā Catholik & pa­tiēt Prince in the world. A Fol: 3 [...] litle before he telleth vs, Neither for ought I se, doth the State wake shew of persecutiō quoad vitā et necē, for matter [Page 222] meerely of religion and conscience, but vpon pretence of treason, or attēpts against her Maiesties person or state, or (at the least) vpō the feare ther­of. But yet more directly he proceedeth, Fol. 31. & 32 I would but aske Fa. Per­sons (because I know him to be a great Statist) this one question, whither in his conscience he did thinke, there be anie Prince in the world, be he ne­ver so Catholike, that should haue within his dominions a kinde of people, a­mongst whom divers times he should discover matters of treason, and pra­ctises against his person, and state, whither he would permit those kinde of people, to liue within his dominions, if he could be otherwise rid of them, & whither he would not make straight lawes, and execute them severely a­gainst such offendours, yea and all of that companie and qualitie, rather then he would remaine in anie danger of such secret practises and plots? I thinke Fa. Persons will not for shame denie this. Then the fault is not in the Prince and State for being cautious, but in the Romanists for being pragmaticall in dangerous attēpts. I will ioine to these the testimony of M. Watson who is copious in this point. He saith that the In the pre face to the Quodlibers. Seminaries at first, made the Iesuits cause, attempts, intentes, practises and proceedings their owne in every thing: their plots and practi­ses they seemed at first to defende, or at least to winke at. Hence they were intangled by penall laws iustly made against them equally as against the Iesuits. In another Quod. 8. 9 place thus: At the affliction of Catholikes in England hath beene in very deede extraordinary, and many an innocente man lost his life, so also hath the cause thereof beene extraordinary, and so farre beyonde the accustomed occasions of persecutiō givē to any Prince in Christēdome or monarchy, that is, or ever was in the world to this hower as rather it is to be wondered at (all things duely considered) that any one Catholike is left on liue in Englande, then that our persecution hath beene so great: for name one nation (I know none can) vnder heaven, where the subiects (especially if they were Catholikes) ever sought the death of their Soveraigne, (though of a different religion from thē) the conquest of their natiue land, the subversion of the state, the depopulation of the weale pub­like, the alteration and change of all lawes, customes and orders, and in few the vtter devastation, desolation and destruction of all the ancient in­habitants of their land, &c. Now if this may be saide of the laity of the English Papists, what censure may bee given of the Priests, the vrgers and instigatours of all these things? He speaketh else­where more particularly of the Seminary Priests: Quod. 9. 4 Howe can they [Page 223] expect any favor when they are taken? none can deny that their comming over is to increase the number of Catholikes: and that Fa. Persons raign­eth, and hath the whole direction at this day for all the missions that are for England. How then (alas) how may her Maiestie and the state con­clude against them? What lawes can bee too extreame to keepe them out of the land? Or if they will needes come in, what severity for the executi­on of lawes against them can bee more then sufficient? Into what gulfe are we plunged? Nay into what an obloquy are we plunged? Nay into what an obliquie must the Catholike Church of Rome grow, in that the execution of Priesthood and treason are now so linked together by the Iesuits in Eng­land, as we cannot exhort any to the Catholike faith, but dogmatizando, in so doing, we draw him in effect to rebellion? You see that this writer doth not sumble nor doubly budgen, but delivereth his opiniō roundly. And if any one should except that these be the asserti­ons of private and single men, hee may see a treatise put out by ioint consent of divers Seculars, and written of purpose to cleere the proceedings of the State in England from bloudy cruelty, or vn-advised rigorousnes in cutting of such rotten members. You may iudge the contentes thereof by the Title which is this Edit: An. 1601. Im­portant considerations, which ought to mooue all true and sounde Catho­likes, who are not wholy Iesuited, to acknowledge without all equivocati­ons, ambiguities or shiftings, that the proceedings of her Maiestie and of the State with them, since the beginning of her Highnesse raigne, haue beene both milde and mercifull. By this time if there bee any wit or sence left in you, you may put vp your pipes for complaining of the hard vsage of Priests sent hither from the Seminaries. I haue beene the more large in this argument, partly to stop your cla­morous mouth, and partelye to satisfie weake persons either on our or your side; and not least of all to free the honorable Par­liamentes and Magistrates taking order against such venimous vermine, from the forged imputations and scandalous defamati­ons in this particular laid against them, & by name of him Supposed to: bee D. Worthing­ton. who falsly reporteth the suffering of sixteene pretended martyrs in one yeere, that is the yeere of Iubily, 1600. Now I follow your steps a­gaine where I left.

21. When you fall to daring, you shewe your selfe but a simple man. There is one by whose helpe David did dare leape Psa. 18. 29 34. over a [Page 224] wall, and to attempt with his armes to breake a bow of brasse, by whose protection in a righteous cause, that England which by a diminution you call litle, doth dare to stand against the strongest enemy that it hath. What should hinder it good Sir, to cut of lewde persons, (wherewithall God is well pleased) when the late Queene thereof at her entrance to the Crowne, did not feare all the Potentates in the world, nor the backwardnesse of many of her owne subiectes, nor the combining almost of all her owne Cleargy, but that in the name of God, and in the vndanted con­fidence of his maintaining of his owne truth, shee did spread the banner of the Gospell, and without discouragement did persist in that resolution till the day of her death, the English fugitiues, and the Irish Male-contents, yea the Pope and Spaniard contri­ving to the vttermost to impeach it? Why shoulde not this our country dare to doe well, when by the singular favour of God blessing his true religion in it, it hath beene able to repel that in­vincible Navy, to sacke many of the kings townes in the West Indies, to batter his Groine in Galitia, to march with ensigne dis­played almost an hundred miles in the heart of his countrey, to knocke at his gates of Lisbone, to sinke his fleete at Cales, and to burne that towne at pleasure, the Spanyards looking on, & scant offering to strike one blow. The time hath beene that this Eng­land which is such a little more in your eie, hath sent Holinshed in Rich. 1 & Edw. 3. & Hen. 5. & 6. a mightie army as farre as to Palestina, hath had two kings prisoners in it at once, and two of her owne Kinges crowned in Paris. And hee is blind who seeth not▪, that at this time it hath decayed no part of her ancient valure or worth; Then do you never feare but it may dare to execute such companions of yours, as will heere disturbe the peace of the Church & Common-wealth. Now that it grie­veth your pretty heart that you haue not your will among vs, I doe verily beleeue: and do not you thinke that wolues & beares doe much grieue, that they cannot come at the sheep-folds, but the shepheards will meets with them? As our Luk. 23. 28 Saviour somtime said to the women of Hierusalem, that they should not weep for him, but for themselues and their children, so wee may bid you not to grieue for the evil case of England, but to be sory & weep for your sinnes and most malicious blindnesse, that God without [Page 225] his more future mercy should giue you over to a reprobate sence so as to fly truth and to hate it, to barke against the light, to cary vndutifull thoughts to your Superiours, and vn-natural to your countrey, where the Lord be praised for it, there is nothing vn­happy, vnlesse it bee that it hath hatched into the world such vi­pers & such monsters, who care not what become of her, so that Sathā may be king, & Antichrist may be general. How your bre­thrē are persecuted with plenty ease & aboūdance, not lōg since I told you. The wiser sort of thē cannot but acknowledge, as evē now you heard, that no Prince vnder the heavē, being so zealous in Gods cause, & having sustained such indignities at the hands of many of that factiō, as our late most Christiā Queen had done, would haue proceeded with that mildnes. For the māner of your speech you are now returned to your old custome again. Here is nothing but all'all. How al the world hath embraced your profes­sion, I haue shewed you before. The ancienter part of the Primi­tiue Church knew almost nothing of it; the latter part of the first 600. years had some weeds cōming vp in it, but the good corn o­ver-topped it. Afterwards it grew faster, but the Greeke Church did balāce it, Mahomatise did emulate it, Gētilisme did infinitly exceed it: in the West, true religiō had faut ours, in thēselues ma­ny; but cōpared with the Antichristian troupe but few, & now of late the vizard of her holines is pulled of, & a maine part of Chri stendōe do see that it is but a painted 2. King: 9. 30. Iezabel. That some where it is tolerated we deny not: but it may be where the 2. Sa. 3, 39. sons of Zar­via are too stronge for David, or for other speciall reasons best known to the governours,: but of all likelyhood it is where the embracers of it haue learned to be so temperate, as not to com­plot for desolatiō of those countries where they are tolerated, & vpō a hope that those who are now perverted by errour, may be converted to truth. But our Princes haue learned to walk in the waies of 2. King: 18 Hezekiah & Iosiah, & know that they are not cōmēded by the holy Ghost, who suffred the high places to stand in their dominions. That Englād while she followeth the prescript of the God of wisdō, should think that she doth more wisely, thē some other who are drūkē with the harlots inchantments, is no greater a fault thē that of Davids was, who could say, By Psal: 119: 98 99: 100. thy cōmādemēts [Page 226] thou hast [...] vviser th [...] [...] enimies, And I have bad [...] vnderstanding th [...]n all my teachers, And againe, I vnderstand more then the auncient, because I kept thy precepts. The same obiection which you make, was made longe agone by the proude Scribes▪ and Pharisees, that they thought one way, and the simple Ioh. 7: 48: 4 [...]: ac­cursed people were of another minde. For our Elders wee shall haue time to come to you toward the ende of this Chapter. And what you saye of all the learned men of Christendome: for so many ages togither is a Popish bragge; for as before I have shevved, there were men of singular learning, vvho savve the horrible abuses of the Synagogue of Rome, and mourning in their soules to be­houlde them, wrote against them, taught against them, pray­ed against them: and many vtterly seperated themselues from the Numer: [...]6: [...]26: tentes of Core and Dathan, labouring to keepe their con­science vndefiled, although for so doing, they endured con­tempt and torture, and imprisonment, & losse of life. Your owne bookes beare witnesse of them, as formerly I haue shewed.

AND I pray you tell me, if an hearb [...] should be presented to you to [...], that all learned Phisitions for a thousand ye [...]res togither, haue iudged to her [...], and onely some one or tvvo of la­ter yeeres haue begun to teach the contrarie, vvithout actuall experience whether it be so or no, but onely by discourse and now argumentes of their owne braine, vvould you abstaine to eate it or no? Or if an action shoulde bee offered you there in England, vvhich by all olde Lawyers iudgment of former times hath beene taken for highe treason Ipso facto, and consequentlie losse of life and laudes, though some nevver Lavvyers vvere of contrarie opinion that now it is not, vvould you not looke tvvise before you did leape, except you vvere out of your vvittes? But in this other case, although all auncient Divines and Doctours, for about a thousand yeeres togither, haue taught the Catholike Romane religio [...] ▪ [...]ee true indeeds, and onelye F [...]iar Luther a loose Apostata, and Sir Iohn Calvin [...] a seare-backe Priest for Sodo [...]ye, haue begunne in our dayes to teach the contrarie, for feare of being punished by the Ma­gistrates of the saide Catholike religion, for vvicked and badde life, yee [Page 227] vvill the Protestantes [...] ou [...] and cast at all, and vvill hazard He [...] and all Etornity of tormentes thereon depending. UUho vvill deny this to bee head-long and hare-braine dealing? Surely this Vniversall consent of Christendome against two or three so [...] [...]hours of novelties, are more then sufficient to induce any [...] of reason to looke about him, and to consider vvhat hee doth, and whether he may adventure his soule vppon such inequalitie of testimonies, as this is betvveen tvvo or three Novellantes, and twenty millions of holy and grave auncients, & no doubt [...] West minster hall, this difference of witnesses would [...] vvith a [...] equall and discreete Iudge or [...].

22 SImilitudes are familiar: but if you had ever reade any thing touching the Principles of Rhetorike, they are of no force at all, where men haue to doe, with a renitent Auditour, of which sorte per adventure you may take vs bee. But as learned Physitians as any who gaine▪ saide it, founde this that you speake of, to bee Mithridate, and an Antidote or espe­ciall preservatiue against poyson. And nowe there bee more then one or two, who have studied this point, and that not only for the Theorike, but for the Practike also▪ and their argumentes are not newe, but fetched from the Patriarkes and Prophets and Apostles. Our Physitians haue observed that rule of the Diod. Si [...]: Antiquit: lib: 2: 3: Ae­gyptians, who in all their cures looked to their booke, and by that they did heale or pronounce incurable. Yours lefte the booke: and thereby as they destroyed their patientes, so it is to bee feared, that after the manner of the Aegyptian Lavve, they lost their owne liues for their labour. And that which you mention concerning Lawyers is iust of the same quality: for ve­rie great Lawyers did differ about this title in question: and then it appeered that those of our side did looke to the law-giver, and had recourse to his words; wheras your mē locked vp the booke, and professed that they could say by heart so much as was expe­dient. But there their memorie did faile them. Novve as the former vvere out, so such as came after, and beleeved their blinde maisters, vvere more out then their predecessours. [Page 228] The Romish Dictatour tooke the advantage by this, and fin­ding that his best profitte was to bee his owne [...]arver, and make lawes for himselfe, added what hee would, and intrepreted as hee list, and if hee would goe astray, (wherevnto hee was most ready) his pety-foggers must not question it, but they must ad­mire him and adore him, since this stoode as an Oracle, that if the Gratian [...] part. 1. Di­stinct. 40. Si Papa. Pope should leade innumerable soules to hell with him, hee must not bee capitulated with; neither might the questi­on bee once asked, Domine cur si [...] facis? there was store of such Lawyers vvhen CHRIST came into the worlde: but they had a Luc. 11. 46. VVo by him denounced against them. And yet when our Saviour turned all their constitutions vpside-dovvne, and gaue newe interpretations of the Lawe, one might before the people have vsed the same argument which is heere made: All the great Clerkes, the Scribes and Pharisees, for so many ages haue taught you one way, and this man teacheth you another way, whom therefore will you beleeve? our Saviour woulde in this case haue bidden men looke to the Originall: Math 19. 8 from the be­ginning it was not so. VVhen the Saracens possessed C [...]l. Aug. eurio. Sar­rac: Histor. lib: 1. Granado and that parte of Spaine which is about it, for seaven hundred yeeres [...] if a Christian should haue come to haue pleaded the ti­tle of that Kingdome, they might haue produced Lavvyers who should have advouched, that for so many descents, & that time out of minde their Auncestors had enioyed it. But Kinge Ferdinand who expelled them thence, might better replye, that the Christians had a more auncient righte vnto it: that the Saracent were but encroacher and vsurpers▪ and there were bookes of authenticall record, vvhich vvoulde vvithout par­tialitie assigne everie man his ovvne. Thinges goe much by opinion, till truth bee displayed. Hovve many learned men did erre in that conceite, th [...] a Bodin: Method: cap 4: Svv [...]nne before his death did singe most svveetelye? The Petr: Mar­tyr. D [...]ad: [...]: 3: Castilians vvhen they came first into the VVest Indies thought it had beene poyson to have eaten of rosted serpentes and yet aftervvard they found it to bee most daintie meate. VVhen matters for a longe space have beene mistaken, and at last they be discove­red, it is no commendation to dwell in olde oversightes, but it is [Page 229] best vvith advise to reforme them. Ad Pom­p [...]ium: Custome vvithout truth, is a [...]nesse of errour [...]aith Saint Cyprian. Touching your Law­yers then vvee saye, that if they take truth to bee treason, they are more afraide then hurte. And as for your Physitians, they are but like the [...] Chron: 16. 1 [...]. Physitians of Asa: for while more trust is repo­sed in them, then in GOD, many a good patient dyeth vn­der their handes. That vvhich they reporte to be poyson, would saue and restore the sicke o [...]ll affected person.

23 VVhen you haue a little raunged among Lawyers and Physitians, because wee shoulde thinke that you haue heard of all the three faculties, you returne to your owne profession, and and there as a man who say all, but indeede knowe little of aun­cient. Doctours and Divines, and smally acquainted with the monumentes of the Church▪ you professe that for a thousand yeeres nothing hath beene [...]aught but the vn-Catholike Ro­mane Religion, till Luther and Calvines time; vvhich is as true a speech, as you are a truth-speaking man, and that is never a vvhit; all the Popes Prentice beeing bounde but to a lying occupation. Your slaunders against these holy men are so well knovvne vnto vs, that in respect of you wee thinke them rather to bee laughed at, then to bee refured; albeit in regard of o­ther simple soules vvhome you vvoulde abuse, vvee are other­wise minded. VVhen our Saviour had longe before lived, and dyed, and ascended into heaven, Iulian Libanius, and Por­phi [...]y had inventions mough against him, and hee coulde not escape vvithout that slaunder that hee was a Augustin. in Iohan. Tract. 3 [...]. Magitian VVhen Narcissus a godly vertuous person lived, hee was by three false witnesses speaking against him, and vsing Euseb Ec­cle H [...]stor: 6. 8. grievous imprecati­ons toward themselves if they spake not truth, accused of a hai­nous crime. It was constantly given out of Socrat: [...]. [...]0: lib. 2▪ 1 [...]: Theodor: 1: 26: 28: 30▪ Soom▪ 2: 2 [...]: 22: 2 [...]: Athans [...] Apolog [...] Athanasius, that hee was an adulterer, a Necromancer, a murthe [...]r: & this was so asse­vered by the A [...]ians, that although many did see Arsenius whō hee was reported to haue slaine, or caused him to bee made a­way, yet they woulde scant beleeue their owne eles: but it was not once to bee doubted, but that by the meanes of Athanasius vvho intended to vse it in Coniu [...]tion, one of the hands of the [Page 230] saide Arsenius was cut off, although he himselfe stood before them, and had both his handes whole and vntouched. Yea a harlot was brought face to face, which chardged him to haue cō ­mitted fornication with her: & yet shee was so farre frō knowing him, that when another tooke on him to be Athanasius, shee not being therein mistresse of her crafte, chardged him to haue done that, which shee purposed to lay on Atanasius. Since these & the like matters haue bin in times past, it is no marveile that the De­vill of late shoulde stirre vp Cochleus or B [...]lsec or Staphilus, against two such lampes of the Christiā world as Luther & Calvine were, who made such breaches into his strongest fortresses, and freede so many prisoners from him. Hee whome you tearme an Apo­stata, was no otherwise such a one for leaving your Babylon, then Saint Paule might have beene saide to be, for relinquishing the Phil. 3: 5: Pharisees, whom a long time he had followed. And where­as you call him loose, his behaviour all his time was strict and se­vere, industrious and studious in penning and preaching much. The heathen Orat pro: M. Caelio. Tully could haue toulde you, that he who would be an Oratour must cut of all licentiousnesse, yea his needefull recreations with his most entier friendes, Iudge if Luther did not so, who hath lefte remaining after him such volumes of bookes, as few men in any age haue lefte more. But hee rubbed the Pope to the quicke: and a horse which is gawled will wince. And it was another of his faultes, that hee touched the Monkes bellies, as Carion: Chr [...]ucts a Melan. l. 5. Eras [...] said, and therefore blame not them & their friends, if they doe their best to lash him. One while with Lib 4. Chrono­graph. Genebrard [...] hee shall bee the grand Antichrist, or the nexte member to him, because Luther (as hee saith) in Hebrew, maketh 666. yet by & by afterward, the In Apoe. 13. 1 [...]. Rhemists of their gracious bounty and singu­lar integrity, professe to discharge him, and quitte him of that honour. VVhile hee was a Frier at Witemberge, hee was a man without exception, passing towardly and learned, yea fit to take the highest degree in that Vniversity, that is to say, a Doctour­shippe in Divinity; but since he came out of Sodome, it is now writen of him, that Persons censure on M Char [...]e. before he was a Frier, he was striken in a me­dowe with a thunderbolt, and being so frighted hee put him­selfe into a Monasterie. And there aftervvard reading in the [Page 231] Church the Gospell of the thirde Sundaie in Lente, of the deafe and dumme Devill throvvne out by CHRIST, he so­dainely fell downe vppon the pavement, and the Devill cryed horriblie out of his mouth, saying, I am not, I am not dumme; I will speake yet vnto the vvorlde. So shamelesse are men in their improbable detamations, vvhen they once make it their summum bonum, to drawe people after them they care not in what manner. There is no measure of lying: there are no boundes for vntruth, whereof Luther hath vvell tasted, if ever any ex­perimented it for doing GOD good service.

24 Your scorne at Sir Iohn Calvine may bee easily returned on the best of your side, as Sir William Allen, Sir Robert Bellar­mine; but wee must allow you a great deale more then this. Your slaunder against Calvine, you take word for word, from Persons his Cap. 7. Ward-word against Sir Frauncis Hastinges, to which if you please you may reade the aunswere, discovering that odious ca­lumniation. O. E. to N. D: Cap 7: There you may finde, first that Calvine was ne­ver Masse-Priest, and therefore that Baals servauntes did false­ly obiect Priest-hoode vnto him. Secondly that Bolsecus the authour of this slaunder, did in an open Synode confesse vvith teares, that vvithout any grounde he had laide that slaun­der on him. Thirdlye that the tale is not onelye an vniust im­putation, but a sottishe and improbable Narration. For first there vvas never any such legall punishment by any lavve de­creede; and secondlie no Recorde or testimonie is of any such matter, ever done or suffered by Calvine. You may there also finde how truly that crimination, doth fall on the Romish gene­ration▪ concerning which pointe my meaning is to forbeare you for a while, and nowe to followe you in the present. That then these men should leaue the Papacye, for feare of censure from Popish Magistrates, for that whereof they were no wayes, no not so much as in shevve guiltye, it your foolishe collection: and so much the more absurde, because Calvine by your lying re­porte had beene punished alreadye. Anyethinge yvill serve the turne, to keepe this slaunder going. You might rather haue saide in behalfe of Luther, that since hee vvas so esteemed by the vvhole Vniversitie, vvhere hee abode for a great parte [Page 232] of his time [...] since his name after his death is honourable amonge them; since he was so protected to the hazarde of all his estate, by that Noble and wise and vertuous Duke of Saxony, it is certaine that no exception can bee taken to his life. And for Calvine that since for manye yeares, hee lived in so reverende reputation at Geneva, vvhere they are so strict against sinne, that by the testimony of Method. hist: cap. 6: Bodine a Papist, no open wantonnes, no lasciviousnesse is once permitted there, by reason of the au­sterity of their discipline, and that they haue (as travellours re­porte) so sterne a law against lewde malefactours, as is scant to be found in all the worlde againe, that an offendour flying out of any countrey thither, shall there bee subiect to as grievous punishment, as he was in his owne land (if he be convicted of the crime) vnto which severity they are forced, least their cit­ty standing neere the dominion of so many Princes and States, shoulde bee the common receptacle and sanctuary of all fugi­tiues and runnagates, therefore Iohn Calvin vvas a man of sin­gular honesty of life, and every waye vntouchable in his con­versation. They who are generally so strict, woulde not with such high acceptation haue admitted, and for so many yeares retained a person notoriously defamed, to be the chiefe stand­dard bearer of their profession, vvhereas they might haue had many other vvorthy men and vvithout exception to haue sup­plyed that roume. This tale then commeth [...] from Sathan the father of lyes [...]. Now it is not vpon these persons that vvee doe repose our selues, but on that which they bring out of the holy Scripture, which being the word of truth, and inspired from the Spirit of God, we feare not to adventure vpon it, our selues, our salvation, our hope of everlasting blessednesse. Neither do wee this headlongly or hare-brainedly as you suppose, for we are Act: 26: 25 not madde O noble Festus, but with our maturest iudgements and most sober vnderstandings, we study, wee conferre the Scriptures in many languages, we pray to God to inlighten vs, we looke into the Fathers, the Histories, the Councels, wee compare old things with new, we leaue no good meanes vn-attempted to sift and found the truth: and stil the farther wee looke, the lesse ground we finde for Popety. Divines most auncient amongst vs, doe [Page 233] more loath it in their olde age, then they did in their young. Yea we turne the bookes of your writers, and exemine their reasones and much adoe wee see they haue to set vp the tower of Babell, and yet it cannot be at they would ha [...]e it. Nay we hinder not your learned Papists, freely at our book-seller [...] to buy all bookes of controversies in religion, so they bee not mingled with state cause [...]; which course cōcerning the writings of our men you per­mit not to your learned disciples, but interdict them evē to ma­ny of your Seminary Priests. And aboue all this, wee are so farre from longing to be in hell, that all who are rightly instructed a­mong vs, take as great care of the saving of their soules, as the deepest Romanist of you, with all your Pharisticall and counter­feit hypocrisie.

25 When then you make comparison betweene an vniversall consent, and that also auncient on the one side, and a fewe con­temptible authours of novelties on the other side, and you dou­ble it againe that here be but two or three Novellants, and there twenty milliōs of graue & holy auncients, which inequality, say you, would sway much with Iudges or with Iuries in Westmin­ster hall, we reply that you do but talke at randō after your fashi­on. For first Westminster hall is no place for the triall of religion. Secondly your men consent not in such sort as you speake; their agreement is not so generally spred, as a man may see through­out all Bellarmines workes, where almost in every question hee citeth different opinions and iudgements of writers in the Papa­cy: and many things wherein Romanists agree are but falshood: and you much mistake the number of those who haue and doe oppugne you. Thirdelye what you say is anncient, is but vp­starte and crept in, as a worthy D. Sutclifs challendge c. 2. man hath of late most learned­ly shewed, in a tract for that purpose: and for the triall of our differences vvee lay the Bible before you, then which I trust you will not offer to bring ought more aucient. Hee who out of that book can win it, in Gods name let him weare it. We say with Ter­tullian, De prae­script con­tra haere [...] that that is of the Lord & true, which was first delivered. And fourthly vvee doe tell you, that multitude is not it vvhich must decide vvhat is trueth. Amonge heathen men one Plutari in Phocyone. Phocyon standing single, spake more advisedly then all the Atheniens. [Page 234] Should Elias be overborne because he was but [...]. King. 18. 25. one, when the Priests of Baal were many? Who was the greater company, Ier. 2. [...]. 4. Ie­remy, or all Hierusalem, with the whole land of Iuda? If you had beene present at the erecting of the image of Dan 3. 1. Nabuchodono­sor, and had seene all the great Princes fall downe before that Idole, and the three children stand vp, you would haue laid free­ly at them, Dare you strangers and captiues, and boyes, and vp­start companions, set your selfe against a million of wise men, Princes and Counselours? They should haue had your voice, to haue gone to the fiery Furnace. Doe you not pity your selfe when you reason in this fashion? Among them that be wise pen­denda sunt suffragiapetius quàm numerāda, voices are to be weigh­ed rather then to be numbred. I can say no more vnto you, but that when this is your best Divinity, Lorde haue mercy vpon you. Saint Austen would haue tolde you, for Epist. 19. all these and aboue all these, we haue the Apostle Paule.

NEither may the Protestants now at length glory in their great num­ber, as some of them haue done, for that their Religion is there in England, and in Scotland, and some thereof in [...]aland, and in the Lowe Countries and in some partes of Germany, and a few of them in Fraunce, Apol. Eccl. Anglic. for they never yet passed into Asia, nor into Africa, nor into Greece, nor into many places of Europe, much lesse into the Indies. But indeede if you rightly scanne their doctrine, you shall finde that your Religion Protestā ­tine of England is no where in the world else, and that English service con­tained in your booke of Common praier is vnknowne, and condemned of all other Nations and people vnder the cope of Heaven. So that in very deed the doctrine of your Protestantes is taught or received no vvhere but in England, and the Puritant Doctrine of Scotlande (the contrariety therof duely considered) is no where but in Scotlande, the Lutherane Doctrine taught in Denmarke, is no where but in Denmarke, and in a few places of Germany, the Libertine doctrine taught in the Low Countries, is no [...]here but in the Low Countries, and the like may be said of other sectes.

26 YOV are mis enformed that the Protestants doe glorie in their great number: they know that truth is truth, be i [...] in more or few. As for M. Iewell whose Apologie you quote in your margent, hee hath no such matter. Onely where as it is obiected that our Religion overturneth kingdoms and govern­mentes, hee answereth there vnto, that there Apol. Eccl. Anglican. doe remaiue in their place and ancient dignitie, the Kings of England, Denmarke, Sweden, the Dukes of Sa [...]cony, the Cunties Palatine, &c. This is to answere to an obiection, by giving many instances to the contrary, and not to glory of any multitude. And if any other of our Church do note in breefe, that the Gospell hath taken roote in some large nati­ons, that is to stop the mouth of the clamorous adversary, and to satisfie the weake, as also not least of all to praise God, who so spreadeth the beames of his compassion; but it is not to boast vainely as you ignorantly imagine. Yet who doubteth but a good Christian may ioy in his hart exceedingly, and thankfully expresse it in his tongue, that many who sate in darkenesse may now behold the light, and the sheepefold of Christ is more and more filled. But if we would be too forward, you will plucke vs backe againe. Although it be, say you, in some places of Europe, yet in some other it is not. As who should say your Popery is ge­nerall in all. Where I pray you in Greece is your Papistry? It is not in Asia, and Africa, and much lesse in the Indies. The East Indies are part of Asia, if you could think vpon it. By what means your Idolatry came into those Countries, I haue shewed before, and how plentifully there it is. If we would talke idly, as you for the most part doe, we might say that in every place where the Mar­chants of Holland trade, and haue people residing, our religion is accepted. But since the English Merchants haue companies & houses in Russia, in Constantinople, in Aleppo, in Alexandria sometimes, in Barbary, in Zacynthus, in Venice, and Legorne, we might say after the fashion of your boasting, that our religion is in those parts. But we desire to make no more of things then indeede they are. Yet we tell you for those remote provinces, [Page 236] that as now one hundred and twenty yeeres agone they knewe not one whit of your faith, so it may please God, before one hun­dred and twenty yeeres more bee passed (if it so seeme good to his most sacred wisedome) to plant the truth which we reach, in the East & Westerne world, especially if a passage by the North ende of America, or that by Asia beyond Ob may bee opened, vvherein our M. Haclu­i [...] vnges: Nation hath much adventured, and speng good summes of treasure, vvhich also the Hollanders haue done. But the issue of this whole matter must bee leste to the divine provi­dence, which is to bee magnified therefore, if hee adde this bles­sing to his Church, And if he deny it either there or in any other place, we must not be caried too farre with griefe or pitty, since it doth not please him who is the father of mercie to condescend vnto it. Nowe vvhereas you avouch, that our doctrine is one­lye in England, I knovve not vvhither I shoulde put that in your ignoraunces, or rather in your malicious cavils. Truth it is our common prayer booke is vsed onelye by those who are of Englishe allegeaunce, but is there anie pointe of doctrine in it, vvherevnto other Churches reformed, in Europe, doe not con­descend? The Catechisme of the Councell of Trent doth dif­fer in words from the Catechisme of Canisius, and both of them from that of M. Vaux: yet you would thinke it a wronge if anye man should tell you that they disagree in pointes of doctrine. So the service of the reformed Congregations in Europe, as in Eng­land, Scotland, Fraunce, Switzerland, in the dominion of the Palsgraue, in the Regiments and free cities of Germany which are of the Pallsgraues confession, as also in a good parte of the low Countries, is the same in all pointes of moment, not differing one int [...]: their Professions are the same. There is no question among these in anie one pointe of religion. The Ecclesiasticall policy being different, as in some places by Bishops, in some o­ther w [...]thout them, doth not alter ought of faith. The Apostles in that they were Apostles had a kinde of governement, vvhich the Church had not afterward in the very same particular. In the auncient Church, some cities and Countreyes vvere imme­diately ruled by a Patriarke, Grande Metropolitane, some o­ther by an inferiour Bishoppe vvho was subiected to the greater: [Page 237] yet they all might agree in the faith. The cheefe at Rome im­mediately is the Pope, at Millaine for spirituall thinges the Arch-bishoppe, in some places bee but Suffragaines, in some other Iurisdictions, a Deane or Priour by Privilege hath al­most Papall auctoritie, vvhich also in times past vvas in the Chauncellours or Vice-chauncellours of our English Vniversi­ties, some fewe thinges beeing excepted and reserved. Yet will you say that these doe differ in religion, or retaine not the same doctrine? Even so it is touching the beleefe of the Protestantes in England, of those which you in spite call Puritaines in Scot­land, and of them whome you tearme maliciously, Libertines in Holland and Zeland. They teach no other libertie then what the Galat. 5. 1. Apostle teacheth, and biddeth vs to stande fast in it. For the shewing of your skill, I entreate you to let your scholers heare one pointe of moment, or materiall, vvherein all those Churches which before I named, doe differ. Speake it out, if you can tell what. Touching the Lutheranes in Denmarke and many places of Germany, I haue toulde you before that in one pointe of the Eucharist they disagree from the rest of the Chur­ches, which the LORD in time may sende to bee reconciled; and wee pray vnto him for the same. But your comfort vppon that discorde is small. For as Anthonie sometimes Kinge of Navatre, and father to the most Christian Kinge of Fraunce now raigning, Commen­ta [...]. Relig. & Reip. in Gall. lib. saide to the Embassadour of the Kinge of Denmarke, exhorting the reformed French to bee of Luthers doctrine, There bee fortie points wherein Luther and Calvine doe differ from the Pope, and in nine and thirty of them they agree be­tweene themselues, and in that single one they dissent. Their followers therefore should do well, to ioyne in the greater num­ber against the Pope, till they had ruinated him; and vvhen his heart is broken, they should fall to compound that last sin­gle difference. God in his good time may graunt this to bee done, although in the meane while, hee doe exercise his spouse asseemeth good to himselfe.

LAstly I doe bore consider with my selfe, if I should refuse the Catho­like Romans religion so vniversally taught', received and professed throughout all the world so many ages togither, and embrace any of these new sillie sects, adventuring my soule there-vpon, what all my progeni­tours auncesters of they were here againe and sawe mee die so, would say vnto mee. I gesse they woulde vse such speeches as th [...]se: vvhat doest then condemne all our iudgementes and doings? Doest thou maligne that Religion, which we so highly esteemed and sought to advance? Doest then sende vs all to hell and damnation? Wilt thou iudge thy selfe vviser, and more in Gods favour, then any of vs were? And many such like spee­ches I thinke they would vse.

27 I doubte not but in this Reason you haue borrowed of your neighbours, as well as you did in others before, al­though it be not my hap to trace you heere, as formerly I haue done. But the reckoning vp of those your places in the Easterne parts of the world, are by me certainly held not to be your own, which I conceiue by the complexion of all the rest of your book. For your phrases and appellations bestowed on Luther and Cal­vin. Father Persons is your schoole-master. But because you are devoted vnto blinde Bristowes Motiues, if you haue beene spa­ringly with him in all this Chapter before, yet heere you con­clude with Motiv. 36. him about our Predecessours. VVhere you might haue remēbred that (to speake properly) neither our auncesters shall iudge vs, neither shall we iudge our auncesters, but Iesus Christ shall iudge both, and hee will not take for good payment, that which we follow by imitation of our parents, but what wee doe or haue done after his owne commandements. How often in the Scripture are men blamed, for walking in the waies of 1. King 15 34. cap. 16. 19. 26. Ie­roboam, & of other their Auncesters? How often do the Psa 106. 6 Dan. 9. 6. 16 god­ly confesse and deplore their fathers sinnes before God? What precepts be there to that purpose, as that Salomons wife, vvho [Page 239] representeth the spouse of Christ, should Psal: 45: [...]1 forgot her owne people, and her fathers house? What a praise is it to a: Kin [...] ▪ 8 [...]. [...]. Hezekiah, & to Cap. 21: 24 Io­siah, and divers other, that having idolatrous parents, they did rather looke to their father which is in heaven, then to flesh and bloud vpon earth? If this instruction of yours should haue gone for currant, the Iewes should scant haue received the doctrine of Christ, but the Gentiles without all question shoulde haue kept them to Iupiter, to Apollo, to Aesculapius, because if they had done otherwise, they had condemned the way of their forefa­thers. By this rule our auncesters heere in Englande should not haue received baptisme, and the Indians and Iaponians whome you say so fast without booke, should haue worshipped their old Idoles. The complaint which you here make in the person of our predecessours, was made before by Symmachus to the Em­perour Valentinian, in the daies of Saint Ambrose, speaking thus in the name of the city Rome, Ambro E­pist: lib: 5: Most noble Princes, you fathers of the Countrey, reverence yet my yeares, vnto which my rootes of devo­tion haue brought me. I will vse my ceremonies which I received from my grandfathers, for I repent not my selfe of them. I will liue after mine [...] fashion, for I am free. But Saint Ibidem. Ambrose comming after­ward to answere all these obiections, teacheth that there is one who in matters of religion, is rather to be beleeued then all the world besides. Concerning God, whom should I rather beleeue then God himselfe? But of this argument I may haue occasion to speake more at large.

28 Onely now thus much I adde, that if any of our parents of­fended God, and dyed in damnable ignorance, who woulde say that for their sakes and company, we should thrust our selues in­to hell' If any of them were right, they will not grudge, that wee should haue more light opened vnto vs, then they in their time saw: even as those holy Iewes vnder the law, fore-seeing what would be vnder the Messias, envyed not to the Apostles and o­ther of that age, the more perfect & liuely knowledge of Christ. But leaving the definition and determining sentence of all, vn­to the Lords secret iudgement, into which we must not ofter to prease or intrude, we do hope that many of those who lived in the time of darkenesse, had that mercy shewed vnto them, that [Page 240] their soules doe rest in peace. Such is Saint Cyprians opinion in the like case, De sacr [...] ­mento do­minici cali­ [...]: Epist: 68 And see most deare brother, if any of our Predeces­sours either ignorantly or simply did not obserue and holde this, which the Lorde taught vs to doe by his owne example and ministery, by the favour of the Lorde there may bee pardon given to his simplicitie. If any of them did holde the foundation, concerning their being iustified by the bloud of Christ alone, and besides that did repent of all their errours, knowne and vnknown, committed by ignorance or wilfulnesse, we feare not, but that the same God who gaue vn­to them some measure of knowledge, and would require of thē according to that which they had, and not according to that which they had not, would receiue them into the number of his blessed and elect. And that the knowledge of the truth was not extinguished in England, may easily be seene by that which is mentioned Ration: 1: before touching the VViclevists, and many other who confessed Christ, yea some of them vnto the death. That noble L. De Eccle­sia cap 9. Du Plessis handling this argument for his countrey Fraunce, doeth giue instaunce in Saint Bernard, in vvhose workes wee finde hay and stubble, and some drosse, which the fire of Gods spirit in trying would burne away. He was swayed with the streame of the time, and received many matters indis­cussed, from other who were some body in the outward face of the Church. But when this excellent man recutreth and rety­reth himselfe vnto his owne vnderstanding, how doth hee De cōve [...]s ad [...]: 29: Epist. 4 [...] [...] [...]Word. ad cle [...] Cō ­ [...]: Rem [...] ▪ la­ment the disorders and almost Apostasie of the Cleargy of his time? How doth he inveigh against their negligence and securi­ty? But for the point of Iustification by Christ, how Epist: 190 se [...]. 50. in Canti [...]a: sincerely doth hee speake, that nothing bringeth satisfaction vnto the wrath of God, but his owne mercy in the Saviour? How doth he expound that place, 2. [...]: 4. 8 hence-forth is laid vp for me the crowne of righ­teousnesse, De gratia & lib. arbit: explicating it, that it is iust that we should haue it, not because we deserue it, but because God hath promised it to all beleevers, & it standeth with his iustice that he should performe his promise? How doth he say of good works that they are Ibidem: via regn [...], non causaeeg [...]ands, the way of, or to the kingdome, but not the cause of our raigning? How confident is he in the Lordes a­dopting of him, when he saith, I De sep [...] [...] 3. consider three things wherein my [Page 241] hope consisteth, the love of his ad [...]tion, the truth of his promise, the pow­er of his performance. Now let my foolish thought murmure as much as it will saying, for who are thou, or how great is that glory, or by what me­rites dost thou hope to obtaine it? And I confidenthe will answere, I knowe whome I have beleeved,' & I am assured that in very much loue he adop­ted me, that he is true in his promise, that he is potent on his performance, for he may doe what he will. But most sufficiently and effectuallie of all other did he speake to this pupose, when hee lay In vita Ber. nard. l. 1. 12. vppon his death-bedde, which place that French noble man doth cite. As it was with this holy person who had an extraordinarie talent of knowledge, so we doe not distrust, but diverse other in their life time, and many at the houre of death did thus apprehend Gods mercy, renouncing all their merites, and the merites of other men, which in our time so stiffe a Papist as Sir Christopher Bloūt did, of vvhome notwithstanding because hee dyed obstinate in other Romishe opinions, wee doe not too much hope, but leave him vnto the censure of the highest Iudge. They which betooke themselues to faith in Christ alone (neither directlie, not indirectly crossing that ground) and also in generall repen­ted, and asked forgiuenesse for all slips knowne and vnknowne, those we iudge to have died in Gods favour. And of this sort we trust that many of our Auncestors and Predecessours were.

29 HEERE to turne to the Reader, this Chapter as you see, is reduced to this heade; That which is largest spread is most true: But the Romish faith is so, Ther­fore the Romish faith is truest & most Catholike. What exceptiō may be made to the Minor Propositi [...] it is intimated before. But how far the Maior is frō truth in Divinity, what Christiā doth not see? For albeit that sometimes God permitteth his Gospel, to have a very large scope at once, as in the first Church, and vnder Con­stantine, and graciously in our age, & otherwise successiuely and by vicissitudes doth scatter it heere and there, so that at one time or other, al great places and quarters of the world, haue, doe, or shall heare the sound thereof, yet ordinarily the number of the godly compared with the wicked, ar [...] [...]t like to a little flocke of kids, opposed to a huge hearde of great cattaile. That this was so before Christs cōming, it is so evident that no man can doubt it. [Page 242] And when hee first shewed himselfe, is not his speech to those that followed him, Luk. 12. 32. feare not little flocke. Doth not hee say that fewe Matth. [...]. 13: 14: enter into the narrow gate, but many into the wide pas­sage, which as it intendeth the finall standing or falling of men, so it noteth the state also of thē which are abiding here on earth. In the Cap. 13: 3. Parable of the seede, it is but one of foure partes which lighteth in the good ground. And howe infinite are the places, where for many ages togither, the seede never came? there was nōe sowed at all? I here the people are but Ethnicks & infidels, without all sparke of vnderstāding. And where the word is prea­ched, what store is there of heretikes, what multitude of hypo­crites, what plenty of worldlings and Atheists, men who delight in security? Are we not put in mind by our Saviour Luk. 17: 26 else-where, that when the Sonne of man is to appeare vpon earth, it shall bee as in the daies of Noe, and in the time of Lot, when the most part of persons shall eate and drinke, and buy and sell, and plant and builde, mary and be maried. And howe fewe there were vnited vnto Noe in faith, we know by the small number of them who were saved in the Arke: & how few ioyned with Lot is as plaine, when none but his daughters would follow him out of Sodome. And of this sorte it must be toward the ende of the world, The faithfull in comparison of the carnall and reprobate, shall be but a little company.

30 Then it is no marveile if the olde fathers have not taken for any argument of verity & right, the greatest & widest multi­tude; a [...] Homil: 12. in Genes. Origene whē he said, There are alwaies more evill persons thē good, & vices are of a greater number thē vertues. And as they are more in tale, so their dwelling & spreading is much more lardge. Doe Lib. 1. Epist. 3 [...] not respect saith Cyprian the number of thē, for better is one mā fearing the Lord, then a thousand wicked children, as the Lord himselfe hath spoken. That worthy man Ludovicus Vives in his bookes De veritate fidei, bringeth the obiections which the Mahume­tanes make for themselues, wherefore their profession shoulde be truth, and among them, this is one: Lib. 4: Yea but you do see the admi­rable increase of that sect [...]hich is ours, so that it is apparant that it is augmented even by the helpe of God, which is the selfe-same reason that is here vrged for the Papacy. But Vives doth make answere, [Page 243] The multitude doth not argue goodnesse. There were more Gentiles i [...] time past. And what can be more true, then that in times past e­ven frō the beginning of the world, there were more Ethnickes, then are Saracens since the daies of Mahomet, or true Christians since Christs time? So Hierome Savanarola who was a learned man, & of an excellent spirit, as appeareth by his workes, (how­soever the Romanists afterward tooke his life away from him) in his booke Lib. 4. c. 7. De Triumpho Crucis, beeing opposed by a Mahume­tane, that Mahomets profession is truth, because so many doe follow it, he answereth first that men are inforced by the sworde so to doe: and secondly that if multitude should beare the palme away, then the devils religion were the best of all other, because he hath possessed incomparablie more, then either Christ or Ma­homet. Such a Reason as this is, doth the writer of this Pamphlet heere bring for his Romish doctrine, which if it prove any thing, is most substantiall fo Sathan the great Antichrists graunde mai­ster. For there is not any portion of the habitable world, but the Devil hath his crew in it. In enquiring thē for verity, we should attende, what the solide rule of perfection, that is Gods Sacred word, doth lay out before vs, and not what the hugest multitude directed by humane fancy shal prescribe vnto vs. Exod. 23. 2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to doe evill. The most walke the worst way. Sapi­endum est cum paucis. A wise man, as Seneca telleth vs, Lib. in sa­pientem non cadere iniuriam cap: 14. doth not goe that way which the people goeth, but as the Planets doe goe a contrary course to the world so he goeth against the opinion of them all. Thus wee must doe in Divinity, not looke howe many saye, but on what ground it is spoken. If many agree in that which prooveth to be iust, we are to ioy that many give consent to that which is right, but the truth is it which must trie them, and not they inforce a truth. Sounde religion is not the worse when it is but in a fewe: and the multitude which doe hould it, or the wide spreading thereof, cannot make the false to be otherwise.

TRUE Miracles were never wrought but by them, who were of true religion, for that they are done only by the power of God. Now it is so manifest that there hath bin almost an infinite number of miracles wrought by those who were of the Catholike▪ Romane Religion, and never any by them who were not of that Church-since Christes time, as he who shall deny it, may be proved no lesse impudent & shamelesse, thē he vvho shall deny, that ever there vvas any Masse saide in times past in England, or that ever there were any warres betweene Turkes and Chri­stians, or that there be any such countries as the East and UUest Indies. which thing if a man should deny, would be not of all men bee deemed not onely impudent, but madde, drunken or a foole? And surely the one is no lesse knowne, by all approved writers and eie-witnesses, than the other. For as in the Gospell and in the Actes, the holy Scriptures witnesse, that mi­racles were wrought by Christ and his Apostles, so doe most approved au­thours of everie age vntill this daye testifie, and record the continuaunce of the working thereof in the Catholike Romane Church, the which Au­thours for the most part were eie-witnesses of the saide miracles, as for ex­ample.

1 WHen you first beganne this pety tract of yours, you vndertooke to doe a miracle, and that a strange one too; for it were a miracle of all miracles to proove the rot­ten ragges of Popery to bee sounde; and therfore we wonder not that in this your processe you speake of miracles. But ac­cording to your fashion, at your first set­ting out you stumble: for wee may well hold those to be true miracles, which are really and verily done, although it be to an evil purpose: And such as these are wrought [Page 245] by them who are farre of from true religion, as by the Devill, and by some of his instruments, indeed not without Gods permissiō, although speaking properly, it is not by his immediate power. The sorcerers of Pharaodid Exod: 7 1 [...]: 22: cap. 8. 7: three severall times shew wonders before their maister, by turning roddes into serpēts, & water in­to blould, & by producing frogges. A false Deut. 13: 1: Prophet or dreamer of dreames may giue a signe or a wōder, & the signe or wonder may come to passe. S. Austen directly De civit. Dei l: 10. 16. affirmeth that amōg the old Romans & their aūcestors there were miracles verily dōe by the power of the devil, as that the pe [...]ates or litle images brought frō Troy did off thēselues go frō place to place, & that Tarquine with a [...]asour did cut a whetstōe in sunder. Liv. lib: 1: Livy reporteth it to be done by Accius Mavius the Augur at the cōmandemēt of Tar­quine. And when among so many probable & credible writers, strang things are related to have bin done amōg the Ethnickes, but most of al among the Romans, as the raining of stones, bloud, & the like, yea as Tom: 2 [...] lib. 4. c: 13: Freculphus saith, very wooll in Artho [...]se vn­der Valentinian the Emperour, to whom is this to be attributed but to the grand enimy of mākind? which the same Freculphus doth not dissēble, whē in another Tom. 1: l; 5. cap. 5: place he delivereth it, that by the naughtines of the devils it was brought about, that a river did flow with bloud, & the heavē did make a shew to be on fire and such like. And this is the opiniō of Bozius a special man of your side, Lib: 2: contr: Ma­chiavel. who telleth vs that Livye reporteth, that it hath rained stones & bloud & flesh. Whervpon he saith we beleeue that these wōders in time past were so frequent, because devils did procure & cause thē: & whē such things did fall out, publike supplicatiōs were made, & ge­neral sacrifices, wherby the devils thēselues were worshipped. Then real miracles may be wrought by such, as be not of true religiō, vnles that Sathan may be this religious man, & no differēce is there for this matter before & since Christs time, as wil be seene anōe by example of Antichrist; And if it should be excepted, that diverse of these already specified, may bee saide not to be true, because they are done to an evil end, that is, to deceive & beguile, your late Popish miracles are liable to the same exception, being whē they are at their best, to winne mē not to Christ but to Antichrist.

2 The Seminaries lacke writers whē they set you vp to be one: [Page 246] but like lips, like lettice; like cause, like advocate. You powsh [...] through like blinde bayard, as if all were right, when heere bee a great many propositions which you should proove, & good mā you are not able to goe through with the least of them. We first require of you to make good, that such certaine and vndoubted miracles as were wrought by holy men in the Primitiue Church, were done by Persons of that Romane professiō which nowe you hold. We vtterly deny this, & affirme, that if those good Christi­ans did now live, & saw the Chaos of your Popery, they would cry out that you are a degenerate & bastardly successiō; even as Abrahā would have said to those Iohan. 8 [...] 33: Iewes, who craked in the pre­sēce of our Saviour Christ himselfe, that they were Abraliās seed. Secōdly you must proue, that since Christs time no miracle was wrought, by any which was not of the true Church. VVhere by the way I hartyly pray you to take that text with you, Mat: 7. 22: Many will say to [...] in that day, Lord have [...] not by thy name prophecied, & by thy name cast ou [...] Devils, & [...]y thy name done many great workes, And then will professe to thē, answereth our Saviour, I never knew you, departe frō [...] yee that worke iniquity. Thirdly you must assure vs, that these strāge things that you wil bring, for the cōfirmatiō of your Pope­ry, are true narratiōs: for I doubt not but to make it plain to every intelligēt body, that a large cōpany of those whō you mētion, are but a rable of foolish fables. You may not take on you, to be of an estate as high as Antichrist your maister: you must come a little shorte of him: lying [...] Thes. [...] 91 wonders are his parte, and wondrous lyes are yours. Fourthly you must tell vs who gave you a licence to talke so wide of your miracles, as that all approved vvritters, and those eie-witnesses doe deliver so much for you, and that these te­stifiers (especially your late Legendary writers to whome anone you must haue recourse) are worthy to bee sorted with the wit­nes of the Gospell, the Actes & other the holy Scripture. A cō ­parison right worthy of you. I wishe you no hurte; but if you should be apprentice to a Tankard-bearer in London, till you had proved these pointes, there would nothing but death parte you and your maister. That Masse hath beene saide in England, it as certaine, as that the Matth: [...]4: [...]: abhomination of desolation was in the holy place. That warres haue bin long, & yet in Hungary are cō ­tinued [Page 247] betweene Turkes and Christians, wee deny not, as also that there be East and West Indies: but that your assertions are as evident as these, there is none which will say, but your selfe: neither would you affirme it, but since the time that you have lefte blushing. Wit or learning, or shame, or honesty, if all vvere not asleepe, would keepe you more within compasse. But while you do thus, this is the benefit which you gaine, that with fooles you make some shewe, but wise folkes even among Papists will dispise you, and bee ashamed of you. Their cause is naught, and you still make it worse. Yet [...], [...] [...]i [...], [...]. You doe well to set a face vpon a bad matter.

IN the second age were wr [...]ght those wōderfull miracles by the Chri­stian Te [...]t in lib: ad Scap: & in Apol. c. 5. Euseb lib: 5. hist. c 5. Oros. lib. 7. hist. c. 15. souldi [...]rs in the army of M. Antonius, which Tertullian, Eu­sebius, Orosius, & the Emperour himself haue recorded. In the third age were the miracles of Gregorius Thaumaturgus witnesses S. Basile lib de spiritu [...]ācto, c. 29. Gregory Nyssene in vita eius. Hierom. de viris illustrib. Ru [...]inus l. 7. hist. c. 25 In the 4. of S. Anthony, Hi­larion, Martine, Nicolas & of others. In the 5. those which S. Austen setteth downe. l. 22. de civit. c. 8. In the 6. those which S. Gregory ma­keth mention of lib. 3. dial. c. 2. & 3. In the 7. those which were done in England in the cōversion therof, written by the same Greg. l. 9. [...]p. 58. And by venerable Bede l. 1. hist. c. 31. In the 8. the miracles of S. Cut­bert, & S. Iohn [...] England, also Bede, l. b. 4. hist. & 5. In the 9. the miracles of Tharasius written by Ignat. Nicen. & of others. In the 10. the miracles of S. Romuald. recorded by S. Peter Da [...]: of S. Wen­ceslaus & of others which Surius writeth. In the 11. the miracles of S. Edward K. and vir, of S. Ans. and of others. In the 12. the miracles of S. Mal. S. Barn. and of others. In the 13. the miracles of S. Fran. S. Dom. S. Bonavent. S. Celest. and of others. In the 14. the miracles of S. Bernardine, S. Katherine of Sienna, and of others. In the 15. t [...]e the miracles of S. Vi [...]c. S. Ant. and of others. And last of all in this [...] 16. age are the miracles of the glorious S. Fran. de Paul [...], of the holie Iesuite Zav [...] [...] the Indies and of many [...].

3 THe first miracle that you cite, was that vnder M. Aure­lius, as Locis su­pra citatis. Tertullian and Eusebius call him. Orosius ter­meth him M. Antoninus Verus: he himselfe in his Epistle which is to be seene in some Copies of Iustinus Martyr, M. Aurelius An­toninus, but none of them hath M. Antonius. The matter vvas, that in Germany he with all his army was like to perish for want of water: and in an extremity, when all other meanes did fatle, a legion of the Christians, which afterward was ther-vpon called Legio Fulmi [...] did ioine in instant praier to their God, and pre­sently there fell aboundance of raine, to their exceeding com­fort; and withall there were thundrings and lightnings, which fel among their enemies and desolated them. Gregorius Thauma­turgus, first was called. Hier: devi. ris illustrio. Theodorus, but now vseth to be termed also Gregorius Ponticus, or Neocaesariensis: he was a scholler to Origen, and of him it is Basil de spir. Sanct. cap: 29: written, that he had power against Di­vels, yea as Socrates affirmeth, by sending Lib: 4: 22. letters concerning that businesse he could cast them out: he cured the sicke, he tur­ned the course of rivers: he dryed vp a marish, converted diverse to Christianity, and fore-told many things. Anthony the Monke was a meere ignorant man, devoide of all knowledge of letters: he could foretell somethings as Lib 1: 13. Sozomen saith, and did divers wonders as Lib: 1: 17: Socrates hath. Of Hilarion the Heremite, In vita Hi­larionis. Hierome reporteth, that by praier he procured a barren woman to haue a childe: healed diverse which were extreamely sicke, & disposses­sed some of Divels. Of Martine I find in Lib: 3: 13: Sozomen, that it is be­leeved of him, that he raised vp a dead man, and did show other signes not inferiour to the wonders of the Apostles. The tales of zach Lip. pel. in vita Nicolas. Nicolas are, that when he was a sucking childe he knew what it was to fast, and therefore on Wednesdaies and Frydaies would not touch the brest till night. When he was a man he foresaw a tempest at sea, and when it came, with his praier he alayed it. He appeared in a vision to the Emperour by night, and caused him to par­don three innocent men, whom he intended to execute. Saint Austen De civit. Dei li: 22: 8: mentioneth, that at Milaine neere the bodyes of Pro­tasius [Page 249] and Gervasius, a blinde man was restored to his fighte. That at Carthage when hee himselfe was in the house, Inno­centius a chiefe officer of that citty, was by prayer miraculous­ly cured of a very fearefull sore. Also that Innocentia was healed of a canker in her brest, and a Physitian of his gowt by being baptised, with divers such other matters. For the sixth age, that whichis cited out of Dialog: li: 3: ca: 2: & 3: Gregory is, that when Iohn the Pope had rode on the horse of a Noble-woman, the horse would not any more endure a vvoman on his backe, no not his olde mistresse: that the same Iohn had at Constantinople made a blinde man see: and that Agapitus another Pope, cau­sed one who was dumbe and lame, both to speake and go. The wordes of Li: 9. Epi. 58: Gregory about the conversion of Englande, are on­lye those in generall, that God by Augustine the Monke had there shewed great miracles, and that hee should not be prowde thereof. Bede Hist: lib: 1: cap: 31: citeth the Epistle of Gregory vnto Augustine, and addeth nothing of his owne. Of Lib: 4: 28: Cuthbert he rehearseth, that whereas sprites did haunt a place, at his comming thither they gaue over: that by prayer he got a well to spring vp in dry grounde, that by his meanes barren lande did grow to plenti­full fertilitie. Of Li: 5: 22 3: 4 Iohn, that he caused a dumbe boy to speak and healed a Nunnes arme that was much indaungered by vn­seasonable letting of blovd, and such like. Lippeloo. in vitis Sā ­ctor. feb: 25 Thatasius Arch­bishop of Constantinople vnder Constantine and [...]ene, vvas a great defendour of the erecting and vvorshipping of Images in Churches. The miracles related of him out of Ignatius the monke, are that after his death, at his tumbe vvas cured a wo­man vvhich vvas troubled vvith an issue of bloude, a man that had a sore eie, an innumerable multitude of such as were infested vvith fovvle spirites, and oflame men, and of blinde folkes.

4 The Nova le­gend. Ang. in vita Ru­woldi. legende hath of S. Romuald, that as soone as he vvas borne, hee did speake Divinity, and forthwith being bapti­zed did preach high pointes of doctrine, lived in all but three daies, & at his tombe in Buckingham, many lame & blind were restored. Of Lippeloo Septem. 28 è Surio. Wēceslaus it is said, that being but a very weak mā, and entring combat with Rad [...]s a most valiant Generall, by [Page 250] signing himselfe with the signe of the crosse, and by the helpe of Angels attending him, hee caused his enemy to fall prostrate downe vnto him. Also that the Emperour saw Wenceslaus gar­ded with a couple of Angels King Idem: in [...]anuar. 5. Edward, who marrying the Earle Godwines daughter, did togither with her by consent of them both, keep perpetual virginity, is recounted to haue cured a lame Irish man, by carying him on his back to the Church. Al­so to haue healed the very sore throate of a woman, to haue givē sight to divers blinde men, and to haue helped at his tombe ma­ny very ill affected. The tales of Nova le­gend. Angl: [...] Anselm. Anselme be, that when once he laked meate for his company, he did bid one cast a net into the next river, and he caught a great troute, that being with a noble man, and neither of them seeing what was done or com­ming, he told him that one was bringing a sturgeon vnto him. Another noble man being leprous was clensed by drinking the water, wherwith he had washed his hands at the Masse. At Win­chester the towne being on fire, he made a crosse with his hād, & immediatly the flame ceased. He caused a well to spring vp sud­dainly on the top of a rock. At Lyōs divers eating of the remain­der of his meat, were healed of sundry diseases. With his blessing he freed a womā possessed of the Devil. A souldiour that had the dropsie, by putting on the girdle of Anselm was recovered. Bernard: vita. 5. Mal. Ma­lachy was by birth an Irish man, & with the annointing of holy oile he healed a boy that was lunatike. He so restored hearing to a deafe mā, that when he put his fingers into his eares, there see­med to come out of either of thē, a pretty pig. He cured one Mi­chael of a bloudy flixe, by sending him meat frō his table. Some who came to seeke his life were destroyed by lightning. One who spoke ill of him had his tongue eaten vppe with vvormes. Hee vtterlye expelled a Devill, vvhich remooved out of one vvoman into another, and many other such matters hee did. Saint In vita Bernard. l: 1: 10: Bernarde as it is reported of him, laide his hande on his vnckle Galdricke beeing sicke, and bad his fever departe and it did so. He freed of his trouble a man much molested with the Devill, by laying him neere the aultar, and putting the Eucha­rist vnder his head. At Milaine Lib, 2: 4: he droue a Divell out of a wo­man. A boy Lib. 4: 5: also that was a foole, and lame, deafe and dumbe, [Page 251] was made perfectly whole by him, and divers other matters of like nature. Saint Frauncis when his preaching was despised by the Mat. Paris in Hen. 3. Romanes, went into the fields, & there charged the crowes and kites and pies, to listen to his doctrine, which they did for halfe a day without any noise or chattering. And thus he did for three d [...]ies togither. Fifteene daies before he dyed, there appea­red in his hands and feete, wounds dropping with bloud, as it was with our Saviour Christ hanging vpon the crosse. And he had such a hole in his right side, that a man might see the in most secrets of his hart. But when he was dead, none of the wounds appeared vpon him. Of S. Dominicke, Ibidem. Matthew Paris, In Greg 9. Plati­na, and Chro. l 4. Genebrard do say, that he was canonized for a Saint, but they name not his speciall miracles. But the Lippeloo in August. 4. abridger of the Legend of Surius, who never faileth at any iumpe, telleth of him that when the Albingenses did cast a booke of his into the fire, it would not burne. And when another hereticke did the same by a paper, wherein Dominicke had written some Divinity, it had the same effect. Moreover that he could fore-tell things, & that he raysed vp divers persons from the dead. As for Idem Au­gust. 14: Bona­venture, the same authour saith, that the miracles which vvere done in his life and at, or after his death, were very many, but in good truth he nameth never a one; which hee would not haue spared to do, if he might haue gessed what they were. Idē in vita. S: Petri de Motono: Maij: 19. Celestine before he came to bee Pope, had sometimes Angels of heaven ministring vnto him, and setting before him dainty bankets. Af­ter that hee was chosen the Romane Bishop, a boy which vvas lame on both his feete, being set on the Asse whereon Celestine had rode, was presently recovered. After that he had resigned the Popedome, he cured another lame man, but by bestowing his blessing on him. Idē in vita Bernardin: Maij: [...] Bernardine is said to haue lift a lame man from the ground, and so to haue restored him to his limmes. Af­ter his death, when his body had beene washed to the buriall, deafe person by the vertue of that water recovered his hearing. The legend hath many narrations of Idē in vita Cathar. Se­nēs. Apr. 29 Katherine of Sienna; that shee had as great and intue familiarity with Christ, as any one man hath with his deerest friend: that shee restored to life again her mother Lapa being dead: that of a little very badde meale, [Page 252] shee made a very great deale of passing good bread, for the re­liefe of the poore: that wheras a Frier with weeping for her death broke one of his arteries, and so vomited a greate quantity of bloud, by touching her hands hee was perfectly restored. Shee had by Christ himselfe imprinted in her body, fiue wounds like those on him at his passion. For the space of eight yeares shee li­ved without receiving any food. Of Idē in vita Vincentij. [...]: Aprilis. Vincentius it is related, that with making the signe of the Crosse, he could heale such as were sicke. He did prophecy vnto Calixtus the 3, fifty yeares be fore, that he should be Pope. A certaine madde women killed a childe of her owne, cut it in peeces, sodde some part thereof for her husbands dinner, yet he comming in, and setting the peeces togither againe, prayed over them and crossed them, & al stuck togither as before, and the child returned to life as if there had beene no such matter. If we did lacke a miracle in graine, heere were one for the purpose. We must imagine that if they had eate the childe, he would with a whiffe haue fetched him out of their belly againe, and as they should haue beene never the better for it, so the boy should haue beene never the worse. With fifteene loaues he fedde two thousand men: he turned sowre wine ma­king it to be right good to drinke: he cured sixty at several times which were possessed with Devils. With holy water he alayed a most grievous tempest.

5 The first miracle which is set downe of Id. in vita Ant. a. Maij Antoninus Arch­bishop of Florence, is that when a maide had broken her heare­lace, or some fillet of her head attire, with making the signe of the Crosse, he made it whole. Hee by praier healed a man that was grievously sicke: made a barren woman fruitfull by blessing hericured a woman which for sixe yeares was ill of a dropsietre­stored a bewitched childe, by his hand-kerchife put vpon it: rai­sed another dead childe to life. By denouncing the sentence of excōmunication vpon a white loafe of bread, he made it as black as a cole, and freeing it afterward from the same corse, it retur­ned to be as faire as it was before. Franciscus de Idē in elus vita. Apr. [...]: Paula could go vpon fire bare-footed, and carry stones redde hot with fire, in his handes, and yet take no hurte. Hee coulde cast out Devilles, and restore those to health of whose recovery Phisitians did [Page 253] despaire; make the la [...]e goe, the d [...]afe heare, the dumbe speake, the blinde see, the lepers bee cleane, yea the deade or those vvho vvere esteemed deade, to returne to life. Con­cerning the Iesuite Franciscus Xavier, Commen­tar. Anno 1565. Surius saith that in the Indies hee would sende such boyes as were formerly converted to the faith by him, vnto sicke folkes, where when they did but rehearse the Creede, and tell them that they must beleeue in Christ, the patients were healed. Also that his body 15, moneths after he was deade, remained perfectly whole and vncorrupted, yea gaue a most odoriferous smell. But Maffeus the Iesuite and fellow to Xavier wil not Propter bonum sociatatis let him goe so. He therefore Hist: Indic. Lib. 15. reporteth, that when two men in a boate at ses, were by a storme driven away, hee presently made the boate to come againe, close to the ship wherein hee was. That at Goa im­mediately he made a sicke man whole. That twise in a horrible tempest at sea, dipping his boxe of relikes into the water, hee made all to bee calme. Many other such matters are currant of him among his companions, touching all which I may saye, that of likely-hood they bee not overmuch beleeved of the Pope or Papists themselues, since his Holinesse nor any of his Predeces­sours, haue bestowed the Sainting of this Xavier on him, neither hath any one of that Society beene Canonized to this day, as the Secular Priests doe rightly obiect against the Iesuites. And yet our age is not debarred from putting those who merit it, into the Calēder or Cataloge of Saints, since the Pope now raigning, evē this Clement the 8. hath bestowed this favour in Icones & vitae Papa­rum, in Clement. 82. Hiacynthus a Polouian, so that the Romanistes haue one Saint more to pray to, then their fore-fathers had. I trust if you had thought vppon him, you would haue done him the honour, to haue closed vp your miracle-workers with his name & company. Yet it should not haue beene for neede, if so you had done; for already you have insinuated vnto vs many straunge thinges, which I have touched more at large, as being desirous that your Reader shold know, what it is that you do point at. But now my opiniō is, that the examples before named, & produced for the confirmation of the authēticalnes of the Romane Religiō, are very wel worthy our farther examination, and advised consideration.

[Page 254] 6 The story then of the Christian souldiours, for the generall consent of approoved writers therein, we doe beleeue, & know that God in mercy inclineth much to the Iam. 5: 17. praiers of his good servaunts. That Gregorius Thaumaturgus did something it is likely, but whither he by letters could cast out Devils wee doe not hastily credit. Great learned men recorded many things vp­on report of others; and conceiving that all straunge Narrations would breed admiration to the Christian faith, were well con­tented to accept of them, & deliver them to other without fur­ther disquisition. This more grosly appeared in Gregory and Bede: but it had his beginning before their age. Of this sort we esteeme that which is related, of Hilarion, Anthony, Martin, and Nicolas: reports of them, went for records, and small matters were made great. Hierome and the other olde writers coulde not yet fully discover to what head Sathan did bende; (whose meaning was to raise from the rumour of those miracles, innu­merable occasions of idolatry, to be committed at or to the re­likes of those persons, who were said to doe the wonders) and for that cause these good men were the more facile to apprehende such relations. But if these as also the other mencioned by Saint Austen, should without exception be granted to be true, vvhy doe you Papists challendge them to be yours? Or what doeth this more make for the Synagogue of Rome, then if the Gothes who broke into that citty, in the daies of Sozo. 9 9. Honorius the Empe­rour should haue arrogated and assumed to themselues, all the Acts of the worthy Consuls, renoumed Dictators, & famous Em perors who in times past had resided there? If it be said that some of these were Monks & Heremits, it is true that they desired vp­on a wrong opinion of more holines therein, to liue seiunct from the world, as the Ioseph. de bel. Iudaic. lib. 2. 7. Esseis among the Iewes had done, & all their vsage we can neither commende nor excuse: but they sayde no Masse, sunge no Dirges for the dead, neither did they leade a life any way concurring with these later Antichristian swarmes: distinguish the times, distinguish the persons, put a difference betweene the actions then and nowe, and our Papists may no more challendge to themselues their miracles, then the Senbes and Pharisees might haue strengthned their errours by the olde [Page 255] wonders of Moses. Those which Saint Austen nameth are not free from their exceptions; that some were reports: some groun­ded on the narration of one: that frequently those things are attributed to religion, which might be effected naturally, disea­ses having their periods, and medicines which are applied, som­times working more then can bee imagined. But for reverent respect to that father, we insist not too far vpon these. Only this we wold haue noted; that he citeth not those as necessary proofs to confirme the faith, (for what Saint Austens opinion is of mira­cles in that behalfe, yee shall see anone) but to yeeld to the im­portunity of some, who being vnbeleevers did call for straunge signes & wonders: for the stopping of whose mouthes, he shew­eth that their age had some rare matters and events in it, though he cited them not as much making or marring, for the verity of religion. I pray you obserue his wordes in the beginning of the Chapter, De civit. Dor li. 22. 8: Why say they, are not those miracles now done which you doe preach to haue beene done? I might say, that before the world did beleeue, they were necessarie to this ende that the world might beleeve. But who­soever doth inquire after wonders that he may beleeue, he himselfe is a great wonderment, who beleeveth not, now the worlde doath beleeue. And doth hee not more then once make a difference of the wonders by him mentioned, and the miracles declared in the holy Scrip­ture, confessing that those of his time, were not so knowne, so certaine so, celebrious as the other. For that many of them were done in Citties where scant any one vnderstoode of them. But those in the Apostles age, frequently were performed in the pre­sence of whole multitudes of people.

7 As for the Dialogues of Gregory, I acknowledge that Hist l: 2: 1: Be­de and Tom: 2: li. 5 cap: 24: Freculphus do reckon them as the works of the first and great Gregory. But so are diverse things attributed to Saint Au­sten which are not his owne, as Adfratres in ereme, where the wri­ter saith of himselfe I Ser: 25: & 37: Austenbishop of H [...]n or to that purpose. Diverse learned men of our side take manifest exceptions to the whole tract of those Dialogues, as being absurdly forged and fa­thered on Gregory. M. Sutliv. de Purgat. lib. 1: 1. One saith thus, I being induced by most certain arguments d [...] indge, that the Dialogues of Gregory are counterseit, & unworthie this such a man. For if you looke on the argumente that [...] can no­thing [Page 256] be thought more fabulous: if on the stile, nothing could be written more barbarouslie and [...]. And Master Foxe addeth, that the Dialogues which are reported to be Gregories the first, were written in In Hist: [...]. Greeke by Gregorie the 3. and were translated into Latin by Zacharias the Pope. But be they whose they may be, is there any credit to be given vnto them at all, when besides that they consist almost wholy of childish or old wines tales, the Authour himselfe vn­worthy of the gravity of such a one as Gregory, professeth in the beginning of his Dialog. lu [...] worke, that hee woulde relate all things which hee had probably heard Who is there that hath lived but a few yeares, which hath not heard so many tales of fairies, & walking sprites and dreames, with other such meane and riffe-raffe stuffe, as might make a large volume, and yet the least part therof is true? Beda who followed Gregory in time, sawe this yee broke to his hand, and he would needs after, being as plentifull for fabulous narrations at the other. By this time, Popery began to grow more strong, and good men by credulity of vncertaine or vn­examined reports were over-taken. They imagined that such things made for Gods glory, & for the propagating of the Chri­stian faith, when it was indeede cleane contrary; for fables doe disgrace the verity of religion, and the Lord needeth not a lye to set forth his honor. That which is here delivered after the daies of Bede, in such barbarous, such base, such baggage-rotten stuffe, such lying, such legendary, such paltry and shamefull geere, that were there in you but one graine of, salt one mustarde seed of iudgment, you would be ashamed once to name such dung-hill ragges. I doe many times from the bottome of my heart, giue thankes to my Almighty Saviour, as for his Redemption in ge­nerall, so that it hath pleased him to keepe me and my fathers house from the gangrene of Popery, that our soules are norted with such shales and huskes, and that our faith is not rested on such weake grounds as these be. For first, who and what manner of persons are these, whom you here mention for the exploiters of your miracles▪ I will except Saint Bernard, and K. Edward the Confessour, who swayed with the darknesse of their times, be­leeved and reported things most doubtfull, and had the like for matters of fact reported of them. But besides these I can hardly [Page 257] name another of these late Saints, but that leaving the final iudg ment of him to Gods secret counsell, we may cal to minde in his behalfe that speech reported to be Saint Austens, Glarean. in pref An­not. in Sue­tonium. The bodies of many are adored heere on earth, whose souls are buryed in hell. For what was this Tharasius by you mencioned, but a notable idolater, mainetaining the erection of images in Churches, & the adora­tion of them? What was Anselme but an hypocrite aboue ten thousand hypocrits, if God gaue him not repentance in the end? He Malmis. de gest. Pon­tific. lib: 1: would seeme so to hate sinne, that he oftentimes vvoulde wish, that he rather might be in hell without sinne, then in hea­ven having offended and transgressed: vvhich speech is of that quality, that it can hardly be decided, whither there bee more ignorance or hypocrisie in it. He once Ibidem. reported, that after that he had entred a Monkish life, he was never so angry, that he gaue any one a reproachful word but once. That he never spake any speech but one, the memory wherof did trouble his consci­ēce. At supper once remēbring that he had eatē a raw herring, he smote himselfe on the brest deepely sighing for that crime, that cōtrary to the law he had eatē raw meat. But whē one sitting by him, answered that the salt had consumed the rawnes of the her­ring, Thou hast healed me saith he, that I need not be tormēted with the memory of this sinne. Of this hypocriticall quality vvas Francis the father of the Frāciscane Friers, & one of your Saints. His commendation was, that when the Pope Matt Par in Henr: 3: scorned him as a ragged and torne companion, & when he presumed to speake to him, badde him go tumble him with the hogges, hee went his waies & did so indeed: & comming againe al be [...]mired & filthy, made the Pope wōdring at his behavior, more to praise the obe­diēce of the foole, thē any thing els in him. What should I say of the rest, that they were a rable of the Popes deer vassals, & made Saints by him for rendring his service, & inlarging his kingdom; surely litle in grace with Christ because so estemed of Antichrist. Vnto these you shoulde haue done vvell if you had added for Countrey sake, achiefe Champion of his Holynesse, Thomas Becket as good a Saint as the best, and as great a man for Nova le­gend. Angl. in Thom. Can [...]. mi­racles, if vvee may beleeue your fellovves reporting his life; bus in trueth a Rebell to his Kinge, and very a Traytour to [Page 258] his countrey, dying in a damnable quarrell, which even in those daies, wise men saw, as may appeere by this, that forty Du Haillā Lib. 5. yeeres af­ter his death it was disputed amonge the Doctors of Paris, whe­ther he were saved or damned, & Roger the Normand did most stoutly maintaine it, that he was a Rebel to his King, and deser­ved to dye. But Pope Alexander found him a man for his pur­pose, and knew that it would be more profitable for the Papacy, if multitudes might bee gulled with the opinion of his sanctitie, and therefore he Canonized him by his Diabolical authoritye, & made him Saint Thomas of Canterbury. A many such Saints there bee, with whose soules a sober man would bee very vnwil­ling at all adventure to change his soule, least his reward should be eternall torment.

8 Secondly out of what Records are the miracles cited, which we do now debate? Forsooth out of the Legend, the Legēdary, the golden Legend, called the lives of the Saintes. In these the Friers and Popish Divines were ever more better reade, then in the holy Bible: but wise men & such as feared God did continu­ally detest them. De refor­matione Eccl [...]siaet Petrus de Aliaco, as he spake against the Ca­nonizing of so many Saints, so hee would not haue Apocriphall writings (wherein questionlesse Legends may be cōprehended) to be reade vpon feast daies in the Church. It was one of the cō ­plaints Centum Gravamin. German: cap. 21. of the Germanes against the Popedome, that their vn­learned Preachers did tell them tales in the Pulpite out of Le­gends not received by the Church, and more like to the fables of the Gentiles then to the Gospell. Ludo vicus Vives could say that the golden Legend was writen by a man De causis corruptar. ar [...] l. a. of an iron mouth or face & of a leaden hart. And do you after al this, rake that sincke, to tell vs tales of miracles, without head, without taile, without all probability? Your Papistes have good stomakes that can digest such colde iron. You wil say perhaps I slaunder you: for your wa­ter came out of another well. The reverend Father Laurentius Surius the Carthusian hath supervised all the reportes vvhich formerlye vvere of the Saintes, and nowe hee hath compiled them into a verie large storie, and thence you haue your citati­ons, or from Res gest. illustomar­ryrum. Lippeloo, who hath revewed, digested, and abbreviated the huge volumes of Surius, and these sometimes [Page 259] do name the Authours in particular, frō whō they haue their re­latiōs. Well, the matter thē is this: these two haue it out of the Le­gends, & you take in frō thē. But they haue left out many things which the Legendes reported. True: the lyes were so manye, that they filled too many bookes. They divided then everie thousand, and kepte fiue or sixe hundred of them which were most significant, and for their purpose. Or they abridged them: but as nowe they bee, there is none but a childe, a simple woman, a Papist, or a blockish brutish body, which will lende any credite to them. Drosse can be nought but drosse; and doe what you will, dregges will be no better then dreges. Their dis­cretion in sifting truth from false-hood, as it appeereth many o­ther waies, so in registring Saint Lungeis for a Saint, which they borrow from Metaphrastes, & make him to be a Lippel. in vita Longi­ni Martij. 15 Iewe, and not a Romane, and yet his name is Longinus, and he was the Centu­rian that stood by the Crosse when Christ was crucified: but hee was afterward beheaded for the Christian religion, by the com­maundement of Caesar and Pilate. Now although in the Actes of the Apostles (where for the advauncement of our Saviours glorie, such a matter would not have beene concealed) there be not one word of this, no nor yet in any other good writer, yet this man is dropped or slipped in to be a Saint, and he is to be praied to, and his holy-day is, to be kept of those that wil, on the fifteenth of March, and Surius with his abbreviatour [...], know his name, his office, his deedes, his death, as well as if they had beene by him. I name this one for a tast, but he who pleaseth may finde a hundred such, if hee will take paines to reade the Lives of the Saints, as they are set downe by the foreinamed Authours. Such trimme men are your miracle-workers, and therefore your mira­cles must needes also be of an excellent sute.

AND therefore I say vnto you out of Saint Austen, I am bound and tyed in the Catholike Church by the band & chaine August de­vtil. cred c. [...] & l cōt: Ep [...]sund: cap. 4: of miracles. And I am bolde considering and most stedfastly be­leeuing these insinite glorious miracles of all times & ages in the Catho­like Romane Church to crye out to Almighty God with Richard de S. Victore lib. de trin. cap. 2. Lord if it be not true which we be­leive, thou hast deceived vs: for these have bin confirmed in vs by such signes & wonders as could not be wrought but by thee. But on the contrarie parte, never any Protestant could worke any mira­cle at all, but ass [...]ying to make some shew thereof, to make their Doctrine the more probable to their followers, felte the iust revengement of God, who turned all to their shame & confusion, as he did by Simon Magus, by Cyrola the Patriarke of the Arrians as witnesseth Grego. Turon. Egesippus: lib. 3: de ex­cid hiero­ [...]ol: cap. 2: lib. 2. hist. Fran. cap. 3. by the Donatists. Optatus lib. 2. contr. Par­men. [...] our dates by Luther, endevouring to dispossesse a wench, and by Calvin going about to delude his disciples, as you may read in Hie­rom. Bolsec. in vit. Calvin. cap. 13. And therfore they are most foo­lish, Vid: Staph: in abs: relp: and miserably inconsiderate, who beleeve these newe fellowes, not be­ing able to quicken a flea, and leave the doctrine of the Catholike Church confirmed with innumerable miracles.

9 IN the texte you cite one saying out of Saint Austen; but in the margent you quote two. The [...] former place doth only mention that the truth of Christian religion De vtilitat. credend: cap. 17. is cōfirmed by miracles. But you therin abuse your Reader nota­bly. For he speaketh of miracles past, & that in Christs time, and not of any which were to come, or like to cōtinue in the church. The words to which hee alludeth are more plaine in the chapter next before going, where in a larger sort he hādleth that argumēt. Such Cap: 16: things were dōe at that time, wherin God in a tr [...] mā did appeere as much as was sufficient for men. The sicke were healed, the lepers vvere cleansed, going was restored to the lame, sight to the blind, hearing to the [Page 261] deafe, And there is speech of no other matter. And to no other purpose is the second place, where the words are not which you cite. His saying is thus, that there; bee diverse thinges which doe keepe him in the bosome of the Church, Contr. Ep. fundament: cap: 4: The consent of people and nations doth holde mee: there doth hold me an authority which was begon with miracles; nourished by hope, euer [...]ased by charity, confirmed by anti­quity. Doth this make for you, as you thinke, or against you? The authority of the Church was begon with miracles. It is true, mea­ning of the time of Christ, and his Apostles: but he doth not saye it was continued, and must be continued vnto the worldes end, much lesse doth he affirme that it must be as a necessary argumēt of truth. So you haue gained much by these two places, even as you haue done by the whole ranke of your wōders: wherof such as appertaine to you, that is the late Legēdary inventiōs, are ma­ny indeed, but not infinite, & are so far from being glorious, that they are plainely cōtemptible & ridiculous, fit for your vn-Ca­tholike Romane strūpet, whose throne must be supported with lies, and variety of falshoods. In being therfore [...]old, you may be more bold thē you haue thanke for your labour▪ but do not saye that you most stedfastly beleeve, for you bestow too good a word v­pon your selfe. In such stuffe as this is, Palingen. in Geminis Quifacilis credit, facilis quoque fallitur, He who lightly beleeveth, is easily deceived. You are strongly conceited, & you haue a boisteous imagination, frō which the sooner you fly, the safer you wil stand. The De Trin. lib. 1: cap. 2: words of Richard de S. Victore, are not spoken of your fabulous and inst­ly questionable wonders, but of such signes as gaue evidence to the first preaching of the Gospell, & were wrought by Christ and his disciples; which were so true & so strange, as that they could be wrought by none but by the power of God, and therefore we may beleeve the doctrine both of the Trinity and other mat­ters, which they confirmed; and not be deceived at all. Yet this addeth no credit to your forgeries & illusions, neither convin­ceth that now we are to depēd on miracles. That we do not take on vs to be able to work any, we do most willingly acknowledg. We know that those daies are past: although God do not so re­straine himselfe, but that (the praiers of his servants interceding) he sometimes suffereth strange things to be done. But we cānot [Page 262] presume vpō it; since we haue no warrant for it, out of the word of God. And who is there I pray you in the whole Hierarchy of your Papacy, who dare professedly assume that gifte vnto him? Dareth your Pope the ministerial head of al your holines, dare your Cardinals, your Bishops, your Friers, your Priestes? Long a­gone the Decretal. lib. 5. tit. 35. cap. 3. Templars in Livonia did enforce the poore people to this; that if any of thē were accused of any crime, to purge them­selues they shold go bare-footed, over certaine redde hot irons, & if they were burnt at all, then they were helde for guilty. But some newly cōverted to the faith, cōplained of this to the Pope Honorius the 3. & he inhibited that any more such triall should be made, calling it a thing forbidden, a greevance, & that wher­in God was tempted. The like may be said of any, who presūp­tuously should professe to attēpt any strange & miraculous mat­ter; it is but a tempting of God, even by the iudgmēt of Isa: 7: 12. Ahaz nowe long agone, who beeing but an evil man, yet was so faire tightly instructed. Yet that good hypocrite your S. Dominicke, going to dispute against the Ioh. B [...]is­seul. contr. Spond. Albingenses, & pretēding that he would proue thē heretikes, did bid thē write their reasons, & cast thē in the fire, & if saith he, they will not burne, then we wil be­leeue you. As if the holy Bible were not truth, if beeing cast into the flame it would burne to ashes. You can tell vs tales of your men doing else-where great wonders, but you should doe well to sende vs some of your miracle-mongers hither, that we may iudge of their iugling. You mutter much of an holy annointed Priest, that he by exorcizing can cast out Devils: but we wonder that these Devils in Englād can no where truly be found, but in Papists. In India our [...] Iesuits would make vs beleeve that they Maffeus in select Epist. be as thicke as hoppes: but if one of that holy Society fal on thē, he can with as much case fetch him out of a man or woman, as one woulde gette money out of his purse by turning it vpside downe. And in Italy and Spaine there bee some possessed vvith spirits, that the Exorcistes may have worke to shewe themselues vpon. Such artificers can haue counterfeits of their owne choo­sing, and taught for the purpose. These keepe in ure the olde order of stage-playes, to have a Devill and a foole in them al­waies. But it is no marveile if our Priestes familiars, being put in [Page 263] by one sleight into their abused patients, can be plucked out by another. They lose nothing by these trickes. And if there should be a Devill indeede in any, and he should bee so sullen as that with all their crossing, reliques, and holy water hee woulde not out, yet they will saue their stake still, the Rhemistes being at hand with this salve, that In Matth▪ 17. 19: it is not in the povver of their Exercistes to cast our Devilles vvhen they vvill. They must misse of their pur­pose sometimes. And if any Protestant be neere, they will saie, It is the better also, that the Spirit for that time will not out: for if then hee should bee eiected out of the possessed, hee vvoulde presently get him into the heretike, and then they were never the neere. Better keepe him where he is, among his olde ac­quaintance.

10 That Simon Magus did attempte to worke a miracle, Saint In Rom: 8: Ambrose telleth vs: but there wee finde no otherwise, but that in deed he did flie vp into the ayre. And so much doth Egesippus acknowledge in the place Lib. 3. [...]. which you doe quote: but hee addeth, that by the prayer of Saint Peter, in his flying hee vvas fetched dovvne, and falling brake his legge. Moreover that he attempted to raise to life a knise-man of the Emperours, who was deade; but missed of his purpose. Greg. Tu­ron. histor. Fran. lib. 2. cap. 3: Cirola the Arrian Bishop seing Eusebius and some other Bishops which were Or­thodoxe, to do strange things, whereby the people had them in admiration, & accepted of their doctrine, devised to procure to himselfe and his Arrianisme, credit by a counterfeit miracle. Hee therfore gaue one 50. peeces of gold, to pretend that he had bin blind, & to say that by his praier he was restored to his sight. But when Cirola was to passe by, & expected that this pageāt should be plaied, the counterfeit cranke who could see well before, was indeed striken with blindnes, and could by no meanes be cured of it by the Arrian; but by the Orthodoxe Bishops praying for him, he had his sight restored. Where-vpon exclaming vpon Ci­rola he confessed the whole intended fraude. Thus the Authour reporteth it: but we dare not be to nimble in beleeving his Nar­ratiōs in this kinde, since he was too great a relater, & admirer of the miracles of holy mē, having writtē De gloria marty [...] De gloris Consessor. De virtutib: & miracule S. Marti [...] bookes specially of that argumēt, & not only equalling but far surpassing the Diologues [Page 264] which go [...] vnder the name of Gregory the Great, for vndiscree [...] and vnbeleevable vanity. If you had stayed at these two exam­ples, you had done well but when you ci [...]e a third, of miracles so attempted by the Donatists, and alleadge Optatus for it, you are out, for there is no such matter in that Optat. li. [...] cont. [...]arm. whole booke: neither any speech of any wonder saving this, that the Donatists com­maunded the Eucharist of the Catholikes to be throwne to the dogges. When, by the vengeaunce of God, the dogges being stricken with madnesse, fell vpon them being their owne mai­sters, as if they had beene straungers, and tore them with their teeth. Also there is speech of a bottle of oyle throwne by the same Donatistes in disgrace out of a windowe, which falling on the stones did not breake. But if these be allowed, this is no­thing to your matter: for these are rather wonders shewed by God against them, then any attempts of theirs to shew miracles, and receiving a disgrace by being frustrated in them. Now for Luther that he did as you say, we finde no such Record, neither do you cite vs any authour worthy the least credit, for it. We are reasonable vvell acquainted vvith your inventions, and espe­cially against these tvvo, vvhome heere you exagitate accor­ding to your custome. But if Luther had attempted and not prevailed, is it a greater argument of falshoode in doctrine a­gainst him, then it is against your exorcizng Priests, when they misse of their desires, as your Rhemusts doe insinuate? Indeed we haue some what Ioh Foxe inh [...]. Eccl. in vita Lu­ther. else written of Luther cleane contrary to your report: as, that vnderstanding of a younge man in VVittem­berge, vvho by a vvriting written vvith his own bloud had boūd himselfe to the Divell, hee togither vvith a Congregation of many other, continued so longe in prayer, that the Divell cast in the vvriting at a vvindovve, and the younge man vvas freed from him. But vvhat that Apostata Staphilus saith of him, to whom he was a deadly and malicious enemy, we do not much regard. See the defence of the Cēsure: Prateolus in hatred to him did giue out, that he was the son of an I [...]cubus, begotten by a Divell. And of as lewd a minde toward Calvin was that wicked Bolsec, who envying the famous reputation of Calvins person, but most of al the progresse & en­crease of the Gospel by his meanes, thought by all vilanous slan­ders [Page 265] to vnder mine his estimation, and by improbable defamati­ons to disgrace him. Now that by Romanists a thousand such tales should be begunne, encreased and continued, we wonder not: their whole doctrine is a masse of vntruthes, and so many wit [...] as haue the hammering of it, so many lyes. Stapleton in Antid. in Iohan. 8. whom we finde the slaunder mentioned in your last Chapter, hath Antid. in Matth. 16. elsewhere a tale fit for your present purpose: that Calvin long devising to shew some miracle, so to get fame to himselfe, would need [...] at length cause one Matthew to counterfe [...] him­selfe to be dead, that he might be said to raise him to life again [...] yet that when they came to make the experiment, the man was dead in earnest. Now this we may beleeue if we wil; & if wee wil not we may chuse. Such things as were never knowne at Gene­va, to any that conversed with Calvin, are at Doway or at Rome as true as the Divels Gospel. Some one of you should giue our, that he attempted to fly, or some such other matter: and if one of you would once write it, and cast but a little colour vpon it, your Seminary students woulde svveare it. Other men vvho know your tricket, will pitty you, or laugh at you, and so let you goe.

11 Your conclusiō is like your premisses: they are foolish who beleeue these new fellows who can doe nothing (indeede you might haue said who make profession to doe nothing of miracu­lous actions) & leaue Popery so bolstred vp with miracles. Your Maister Bristow from whose fifth and sixth Motiue, yet much shrunke and contracted, you borrowe your sixth Reason, to shewe the straungenesse of Miracles doeth playe the good fel­lovve vvith vs, and giveth vs an instaunce of one in our owne age; that a Bristowe Motiv. 5. woman called Margaret Iesope was contracted to a Dutch man in London, and by him begotten with childe be­fore they were marryed. His friendes hearing of the intended match, sende for him to Bruxelles, & there mary him to another wife. Margaret followeth him thither, is denyed by him, and be­ing brought a bed there, falleth wōderfully lame, & so continu­eth three yeares and more. In the meane while shee sueth him in law both for the contract and for the maime. But the ende vvas that by the vertue of the miraculous Sacramente [...] ▪ [Page 266] or hostes in the Church of S. Gudila at Bruxelles shee was cured; having vsed before, much fasting, and going oft to Confession. In remembrance of this wonder, her staffe or Crouch was han­ged vp, neere the place of the Blessed Sacrament of Miracle, and her healing was proclaimed every where in the pulpit. Can any man chuse but beleeue that Popery is truth, when hee heareth this tale, the grace whereof is so excellent, that he spendeth eight whole leaues in delivering it, making it vp so much, as will serue a Popish womā to read in an after [...]noone, allowing her a little li­berty to thinke how shee may say it without booke, to tell it to her friends or sisters. And some oddes may bee laide that it will cost her a dry droppe or two, of some trickling teares also. It may be here noted, that the subiect of the miracle, this gentle Iesope was an honest woman, being with childe before that shee vvas marryed. Also that M. Bristow talking in his grosse ignorance, of her suing the Dutch man for a maime (which is a iesting phrase in England, but no action for that particular being liable in the Civill or Common Law) is a fit man to determine of Kings and Queenes, of the excommunication of Pius the 5. of the good cause of the Rebels in the North, Ann. 1569. where he proclai­meth them to be Martyrs. Thirdly it is no newes to heare that Motiv. 15: a harlot being put to her shifts, should be a counterfeit cranke, & to cover her other baggage like tricks, should be willing to bee talked of as one vpon whom a miracle was shewed. In the time of the olde pilgrimages there were a thousande of these prankes played. And I could name where a woman lately dwelt, vvho (as her honest neighbours reported) by her vertuous life came to that state, that to say no worse of it, the French overcame the English. Shee laboured to conceale it, but being forced by infir­mity to go with a paire of crowches, shee gaue out that she knew not how shee was taken in her limmes. Afterward vnder a colour of going to the Bathe, or some other such place, shee with-drew her selfe till by some surgeon like skil shee was reformed againe. Yet comming home she would not leaue her crowches, but pro­fessed that her weakenes grew on her more and more. At length when the time was come, which best fitted her purpose, on a Sū ­day or holy-day when the street had many people in it, who be­held [Page 267] her going along, shee goeth with her Crowches to a brook running on one side of the towne, and there for an howre and more, shee sitteth washing her feete, telling such of her acquain­tance as passed by, that she felt her strength more and more in­creasing, according to a dreame vvhich shee had dreamed the night before. But the issue was, shee left her crowches, and came home as well as shee desired. Being asked of it, shee hath not fea­red to sweare, that so strangly shee was cured as I haue reported, and some wise folkes beleeue it. You may be one of these if you will: and you may recorde this woman for her straunge vision. This may well fit Bristowes Narration concerning Margaret Ie­sope. Touching which relation, so reported, so magnified, so be­leeved, to the great praise of the miracles done at Bruxelles, be­cause I do desire that my much-abused country men should take notice, how they are bobbed by the fraude of their Priests, and what the iuggling of such good fellowes is, I thinke it not amisse to let them vnderstād, that within Ann 1581: fevē years after this fore-na­med wonder, the Senate of Bruxelles did discover the whole le­gerdemaine of the miracles, said and blazed abroad to be ordina­ry with them, and after due examination did put foorth to the view of the world an Edict or Proclamation therevpon. Meter. hist Belgi [...]. l. 10 Wher­in they declare, that the Sacrament of Miracle among them was nothing but a bare peece of bread, both lately & falsly reported to doe wonders, and that the covetous greedinesse of the Ro­mane Clergy there, had also obtruded to the people, rotten pee­ces of wood to be worshipped, as if they had been partes of the Crosse whereon Christ was crucified; and in steed of the reliques of Saints they kept the bones of Apes and other beastes, preten­ding moreover that they had some part of the Sepulchre of our Lady, and the skull of S. Michaell, which things they permitted the people to adore. Yea they testifie, that in the faces of diverse of their images they found little holes, wherein oile was put, to make them seeme sometimes as if they sweated. And that there were devises, whereby other Images had some parts of them made to moue and sti [...]re by wires and other instruments. The Proclamation at large is worth the reading: wherein it may bee seene, that God in his good time discovereth the verletry of cou­seners [Page 268] and beguilers; and giveth leave to such as will not close their owne eies, to behould what is truth, and what is falshood. For some scores of yeeres togither, this place was famous for Po­pish miracles, and so many strange things were heere saide to be done, that of all the places in Europe, Bristow chose this to fetch his wonder from, for the confirmation of Popish doctrine, and now you see by a most authentical Record, what it prooveth to be. You Seminary Priests that can blush, blush at this, and at the ill fortune of Margaret Iesopes miracle.

12 HEere to turne vnto the Christian Reader; if our Ro­manistes had not resolved to say any thing, which might make a shew & flourish without al substance, who would in our age bring this Reason of miracles, to decide or determine which is the true faith? It is certaine that whē our bles­sed Saviour came first into the world, for the ratifying of his do­trine which seemed strang, & for the testifying of his divine po­wer, he wrought many wonders. And yet he sharpely Matth. 12. 39. Ioh. 4: 48: cap. [...]0. 29. reproved those who would not beleeue without miraculous signes, as in­tending that they should be but for a time, & then afterward lit­tle or no vse of them. But for the planting of his Church at first, he gaue also to the Apostles and some disciples that power, that they might worke wonders; adding concerning that time, that these Marc. 16. 17. tokens shall follow them that beleeve, In my name they shall cast out Devils, and shall speake with newe tongues, and shall take away ser­pents, and if they shall drinke any deadly thing it shall not hurt them: they shall lay their handes on the sicke, and they shall recover. Yet that soone afterward, the ordinary exercise of these was extinguished, wee have verie ample testimonie. Eccle. hist. lib. 5. 3. & 7. Eusebius sheweth that in the daies of Irenaeus, which was soone after the Apostles, there were yet done some miracles, implying by many things in his Narrati­on, that very soone after, that gifte did cease. I noted before, the words of S. Austen, De civit. Dei. l▪ 22. 8. Why are not those miracles (saie they) now done, which you report to haue beene done? Hee answereth that they were necessary till the world beleeved: but now faith being spred in the world, hee himselfe is no better then a vvonder or a mon­ster, vvho vvill not beleeve vvithout seeing vvonders. And in another De vera Religion: cap. 25. place thus, Since the Catholike Church is diffused through [Page 269] the whole world and grounded, neither are those miraculous thinges per­mitted to indure vntill our times, least the mind should alwaies seeke visi­ble things, & by the custom of thē, mankind should waxe cold, at the newe appeerance whereof it was all on fire &c. Truth it is, that in his Lib. 1: 10▪ Re­tractations, he expoundeth himselfe what he meant by this pas­sage, It is true in deede, for even vntill novve, when the hand is laide on them vvhich are baptised, they doe not so receive the holy Ghost, that they speake vvith the tongues of all nations, neither novve are the sicke bealed by the shadovve of the preachers of CHRIST passing by, and if any other such thinges vvere then done, vvhich it is manifest that af­tervvardes they ceased. But that vvhich I saide is not so to bee vnder­stoode, that novve no miracles shoulde bee beleeved to bee done in the name of CHRIST. For hee saith that himselfe sawe a blinde man recover his sight, at the bodyes of the Martyrs at Milaine; and some other matters, hee saith, were done; alluding of likely­hood to those many wonders spoken of by him in the De civit: Dei l: 22: 8. place formerly mentioned. And whereas hee had saide else-where, Why, De vtili­tat: creden­di: cap. 16: wilt thou say, are not these things done now? Because they would not move, vnlesse they were wonderfull. But if they were common, they would not bee wonderfull, he expoundeth that also in the same booke of Retractations thus, Lib: 1: 14: And this I saide, because not so great ones, nor all are done now, not because that none are done even now.

13 Saint Austen acknowledgeth both heere & else-where, that some strange things were done in his age, but not such great ones as formerly, not so often, not by an ordinary operation, but sometimes whē God was pleased to permit it; which is notwith­stāding so to be taken, that the assured faith of no mā before hād could lead him vnto it. And that such matters were done about that age, or a little before, we have more witnes. Iustine In quaest. ad [...]tho­dox. 28. Mar­tyr saith of the time wherin he lived, that the bodies of holy mē, & sepulchers of Martyrs, did remoove away the intrappings of Sathā, & heale desperate diseases. Basile somewhat neerer the dates of Austen [...] saith, that in battailes lately before fought, God [...]In Psal▪ 18▪ with haile & fire consumed the Northren Barbarians who over­whelmed them. And by the same meanes he hindred the Persi­ans who would haue taken their cities, killing some and retur­ning others home, to carry newes of the destruction of their [Page 270] fellowes. Haeres. 51: Epiphanius telleth of miracles, which we dare not be too bold to beleeue, as that there were divers places, whom also he nameth, where somtimes in the yeare, the water in their wels and rivers was wonderfully turned into wine, in remembraunce of that which Iesus had done at Cana in Galile. May wee not by this example feare, that diverse of the gravest fathers of the Church, goe a little too farre in their reportes as Eccl. Hist. Lib. 7. 14. Eusebius did also in telling of the image of the woman cured of an issue of bloud by CHRIST, at the foote of which as he said, grew three hundred yeares afterward, an herbe, which when it came vp so high as to the garment of the woman', it vvas of force to cure any kinde of disease. Which narration is shrewdly censu­red by In metho. Hist. cap. 4. Bodine, as detracting credite from Eusebius in other matters. But be it thus: that rarely there were done some strang things, for the space of some hundreds years after Christs ascen­sion. Yet this was no set, certaine, or ordinary vocation of vvor­king miracles, and therefore is very little to be accounted of, for the purpose here in hand. Heare Gregory on this point; Mor. li. 27. 11. What marveile is it, if the faith being propagated, miracles be not oft done, since even the very Apostles in many which were already faithfull did not doe them? This place being vndoubtedly Gregories, may make the freer exception to be taken to the books surmised to be his Di­alogues▪ for here he telleth vs that miracles are not often done, & there if all should be true, nothing can be more common. Not­withstanding hence it is apparant, that in his age there was a dis­continuance of the practise of miracles; no man was noted for a common doer of them; none assumed that power vnto him, and therefore since now a thousand yeares are passed from his time, what vndoubted reckoning can at this time be made of them? Nay, what argument could be drawne from them, in the daies of Saint Austen? Might that which our adversaries vrge, that those who did miracles had the Catholike faith? How evidently, how copiously, how forcibly doth Saint Austen overthrow all that Reason? There were Donatists & other heretikes, who did vrge miracles of their side. Doth Saint Austen therefore yeeld there­vpon that their doctrine was Orthodoxe? No: but thus he saith, De vnita­t [...] Ecclesie. Let him shew it, and not say, therefore it is true, because D [...]atus or [Page 271] Pontius, or any other did those and th [...]se miracles, or because men at the memories of our Martyrs do pray and are heard, &c. Away with these either fictions of lying men, or monstrosities of deceiving spirites. For ei­ther those thinges are not true which are saide, or if there bee done some miracles of heretikes, wee ought the more to take heed, because when the Lorde had saide that there shoulde bee some deceivers, who by doing ma­ny signes shoulde deceiue the very elect if it were possible, hee did adde cō ­mending it vehemently and saide, Beholde I haue foretolde it vnto you. And not long afterward, But they are hearde either of seducing spi­rites, which yet doe nothing vnlesse they bee permitted, God on high and vnspeakeably iudging what is to be attributed to every one: or else of God himselfe, either for a paine of their wickednesse, or for the comfort of their miserie, or for a warning to seeke everlasting salvation. But no man com­meth to salvation and everlasting life, but hee who hath Christ for the beade. And yet farther in the same treatise, Whatsoever thinges of this quality are done in the Catholike Church, therefore they are to bee approoved, because they are done in the Catholike Church, but the Catho­like Church it selfe is not therefore manifested, because these thinges are done in it. So that now the true faith doth giue countenaunce to the miracle, and not the miracle credit the faith; which if our Pa­pistes were not possessed with a spirit of giddinesse, they must needes confesse. And the same father in another place, beeing haunted as it should seeme with obiections of miracles, and as surfeted on them, and loathing them faith, Tract. 13. in Iohan. Against these miracle­mongers as I may so call them, my God hath made me wary saying, In the last times there shall arise false Prophets doing signes and wonders. He calleth them mirab [...]os, miracle-mongers, and so hee woulde haue done those who now grounde so much on wonders, if he had lived in their times.

14 No reader can be so simple, but in pervsing these places he may perceiue, that the warrant and ground of Saint Augustines words, and the waight of his Reasons is drawne out of the holy Scriptures, which are plentifull in that point. For besides that of Deu: 13: 1: Deutronomy, and the other place of S. Mat: 7: 22: Matthew before ci­ted, how frequently are we put in minde that seducers and false Christs, and Antichrist and the beast shal come with great signes and wonders? Ca. 24 24: There shall arise saith our Saviour false Christs and [Page 272] false Prophets, and shall shew great signes and wonders, so that if it were possible, they should deceiue the very elect. Behold I haue tolde you before. Here is a watch-word added, to the ende that we should not be negligēt in discerning this. In like sort Saint Paule remembreth vs that the [...]: The: 2: 9 comming of that sonne of perdition, is by the working of Sa­than with all power and signes, and lying wonders, And in all deceiueable­nesse of vnrighteousnesse amonge them that perish, because they received not the loue of the truth, that they might be saved. So Saint Iohn saith of the second beast, Apoc. 13: 13: 14: He did great wonders, so that hee made fire to come downe from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And decei­ved them that dwell on the earth by the signes, which were permitted to him to doe in the sight of the beast. Afterward we heare againe, that Ca: 16: 13: three vncleane spirites like frogges come out of the mouth of the Dra­gon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false Prophet, for they are the spirits of Divels working miracles. And last­ly we finde that Ca▪ 19: 20: the beast was taken, and with him that false Prophet that wrought miracles before him, whereby he deceived them that recei­ved the beasts marke. From all which is it not much fitter and surer to conclude, that our Papists doe take on them to be able to doe miracles, therefore the beast is their maister, they are cousens to the false Prophet, they are brethren to the frogges, promoted by the spirits of Devils? If any grace were remaining, they would tremble at this connexion, and hast away from Babylon, least they perish there with the harlot. But to collect from their won­ders, that they are the true Church of God, is most sencelesse and inconsequent. I haue shewed before out of Saint Austen, that the Divell worketh miracles. And profane stories are ful of such reports, how Sathan did abuse men, so to winne them to his ser­vice, or to continue them in it. The Liv. lib. 29: men of Loeri having war with the Crotonienses, were desirous to remooue into their cit­ty, some store of mony which was laide vp in Proserpinas tem­ple standing in their fields. In the night time there was heard a voice out of the Chappel, that they should let it alone there: the Goddesse would defend her owne temples; wher-vpon not da­ring to stirre it, they yet thought good to compasse the Chappel with a wall. But when their building was brought to a pretty height, it fell all downe to the ground. Were it here a good con­clusion [Page 273] to inferre, that the religion of Proserpina or the Locren­ses was right, for these strange wonders sake? Yet this is the same which our Romanists do vrge, or else they do nothing. There is an approved Tacit lib: 4: Hustor: authour who witnesseth of Vespasian, that when he was to take the Empire vpon him, he did divers prodigious & miraculous matters, openly and in fight of all. Yea what can bee more wonderful, then that which Philostrat li [...] 4: 6: & 16 Apollonius acted, as Philostra­tus writing his life reported of him? For one of his deeds was, that he cast out a Devill, and another that he raised to life a maiden which was dead. And to cast out Devils, & to quicken the dead, are worthyly reputed amōgst the highest miracles. Where, who is so grosse as to inferre, that the doctrin of these persōs was true, for their wonders sake? Neither doth it serue the turne, to put this difference or disparity, that the miracles now in questiō must be done in the name of Christ, which was not in those of the Gen­tiles; for evē the same which are by Christ reiected, are there said to be done in Mat: 7. 22 his name; & who is ignorant that in Christiā coū ­treies, such rare effects as are brought about, by witches, negro­mancers, coniurers & the like, who somtimes do strang exploits, are operated by vsing the name of al the persōs of the holy Tri­nity, by sentences of Scripture, & other words in thēselues good but wickedly applyed?

15 These reasons as they do weaken & extenuate the maine strength of al miracles lately done, so the cōsideratiō of the qua­lities of Popish miracles do vtterly overthrow thē. For not the 40 or scant the 100. of thē was true: divers were wrought with leger­demain: very many were most ridiculous, & no better with wise folks thē things to make sport, albeit they were admired by the simple & superstitious. That worthy man Ludovicus Vives saw this wel inough, whē he spake so feelingly of this case. [...] Lib: [...]de verita: sidei They saith he are the more execrable, yea like the Devil, who for gaine sake do faine miracles in the Churches of our Saints, for whē the vanity of theirs is laid open, they make mē doubt of true miracles. Therfore miracles must haue these marks, the truth of the thing it selfe, the quality of their beeing, the māner of the actiō, the cause efficient, the cause moving before hand, the ende. And afterwarde, The avarice of some persons, hath devised false loger-demaines of miracles, by the vvhich beeing deprehended and made manifest, such as are most true, are made vncertaine, [Page 274] which is a pestilent matter in religion, and they are to bee execrated who doe devise them, and deserve more punishment, then such as counterfeit mony, or doe mingle poison amonge these thinges vvhich are made for re­ceites against poison. You may heere once againe call to mind the Proclamation of Bruxelles before spoken of. If the miracles so extolled in the Romish Church, were examined after the notes & marks heere proposed by Vives, how poore, how contēptible, how scornful would they be? Let vs see some few examples, and those not tosled vp and downe with rumours, but beleeved and received, as commended vnto vs by authours of good note. Hoveden part. 2. In or neere Sicilia, the fire did breake out of the mountaine Gibel, which is a matter long agone written cōcerning the hill Aetna. The people of the countrey being frighted at it, doe flye to the tombe of S. Agatha, & taking her veile frō thence, do with it so beate back the fire into the sea, that it dried vp the sea almost for the spice of a mile, & did halfe scorch or burne the fishes, so that yet such fishes do remaine halfe broiled, and are called S. Aga­thas fishes. You must thinke that it is some commodity to the countrey, in saving them fewel, who eate of the fishes, in as much as they are halfe broiled to their handes. You must not aske whether if all the water vvere so gone, that the fishe lying drye vvas burnte, the people came and tosled them forvvard into the sea, or else they laye there till the tyde came vp againe, that they lived so longe after. Nor whether there be yet any of the same fishe remaining: for were it not time, that they were spent? And yet as men say, fish is long lived. But howsoever you must not sift a miracle too far, as it is no good manners too much to examine a friēds tale. Ibidem. The same Authour hath another Nar­ration cōcerning Thomas Becket, that he never drāke any thing but water, & on a time being at boorde with Pope Alexander, the Pope would needs tast of his cup. There least the sanctity & abstemiousnes of the holy mā should be discovered, God so pro­vided that Alexander could finde nothing but wine: but when Becket came to pledge him in the same cup, it was turned backe againe into water. You must beleeve that although the Pope found it to be wine, yet Thomas Becket drunke nothing but water. And because it shold be known that he was as miraculous [Page 275] in his meate, as he was in his drinke, Quod. lib. 8: 7. one of our Secular Priestes in great earnest telleth vs, that on a S. Markes day in Rome, he had a Capon whereon he was eating turned into a Carpe. Some haue talked of men, that could or would haue gone invisible. Perhaps some body wil ignorantly say that it was Frier Bacon. No, it was S. Bartholomew, as Past 3: quaest: 54. a [...]t: 1. Thomas of Aquine telleth vs, to whose body it was givē as a miracle, that if he himselfe would, he might be visible, if he would otherwise, he shold not be beheld: he might go invisible. You wil hope that S. Bartholomew was an honest man, or else nowe and then hee might haue done ill feates.

16 That S. Francis the Patriarke of the Franciscanes was a maister of miracles, we are not now to learne: but see whether hee brought not vp his scholers vnto it also. If wee give credite to the booke of his Conformities, as I cannot see vvho can bee a good Catholike and not beleeve it, Confor­mit. D. Frā ­cisc. Frier Frauncis one of the followers of the noble Saint Frauncis, celebrating Maste, founde a spider in the chalice, and did not take him out, but dranke him vp togither with the bloud. Afterward rubbing his shin-bone, and scratching where it itched, that spider came whole out of his legge, and did him no hurte. And because such wonders as these bee, must never cease in the Church of Rome, but our age must haue her part, our Iesuites who do as much honour the foūder of their Society Ignatius Loiola, as the Franciscanes do S. Francis, will informe you that Ignatius was not without his miracles, for whē Petr Maff. in vita Ig­nat. lib: 1: 7 he was sometimes at his praiers late in the night, diverse peeping in vpon him, haue seene his body hange in the aire two yards aboue the ground, the spirit lifting vp the waight of his bo­dy to heavē-ward: And moreover cōferring in speech with God (which also is writē of Exod. 34. 35. Moses) al his face would shine in marvei­lous māner like the beames of the Sun. But because the foūder of the Iesuits should not thus beare the bucklers away from all mē in our age, there is since his time stepped vp another old gallant, on Philippus Nerius a Florentine, vvho hath erected an order called Congregatio Oratorij. One Antonius Gallonius a Priest of his Cōpany hath lately put out his life, & so many miracles done on & by him, that a man had need of a stronge faith, which can [Page 276] beleevethē. Among other, to be quit with those of Loiola, Vita B. Pa­tr. Philip Nerij. lib. 1▪ Anno 1556. hee telleth that Philip was seene in praier time, for an houre and a halfes space to hāge in the aire five cubits & more, aboue groū [...], which being two yardes & a halfe hath put downe Ignatius for halfe a yard & better. Also his face was seene to be wonderfully full of shining beames. And because wee shoulde thinke that miracles were no dainties with him, An 1555. he could by his smel know a whore very e [...]sily: he could by An. 1559. looking a māin the face tel what he thought, & knew familiarly the secret cogitatiōs of mēs harts. A man being absent from him & but dreaming of him, was An 1595. cu­red of a vehement fever. All these strange matters, and many more he did, albeit he told De beati Philip [...] vir­tutib l. 3: Caesar Baronius then a Priest of his order, and he who was his Confessour, that he very often had asked of God, that he would do no miracles by him. And that was because he wold not haue the people think too well of him. And in as much as mention is heere made of Caesar Baronius, I vvill adde one thing more, which the said Lib. 1. An. 1550: Cardinall delivered vpon his othe, concerning the same Philip his founder; for the said Ba­ronius was one of his company and society. In the yeere 1550, now more then fiftie yeeres agone, Philip who (in the darke of the night, vvhen all men are even buried in sleepe, so that the lefte hande coulde not knovve vvhat the the right hande did) did vse to visite needy persons, vvent in the nighte time to cary breade to a poore gentle-man. Heere by the Devils meanes, vvhile hee sought to avoide a carte comming hastily vppon him, hee fell into a verie deepe ditch, but Gods helpe beeing at hande, in his falling he vvas presently caught of an Angell, by the heare of the heade miraculouslye, and beeing nothing hurte, hee vvas returned out safe by the Angell. This did Baronius (who vvas not there, and coulde haue it but by the reporte of Ne­rius) svveare absolutely to bee true; vvhereby vvee may easilie gesse, that the same Cardinall in his vvritinges ma­keth no greate conscience, to saye thinges true or false, vvhen hee maketh no bones to svveare matters so vnlikely. Hee who list to see more of the venerable miracles in Popery, let him reade Henrie Stephanus in his French Cap: 39: Apologie of Herodotus, and there hee shall finde diverse particulars sette dovvne. [Page 277] Are not our Country-men, and Country-women blessed, when after so long light of the Gospell, they chuse to feede themselues fat with legions of such wonders, and holde it a high part of their profession to beleeve such things as these are? We reade of some whom God doth so giue over to the spirit of delusion, that they doe 2 Thes: [...] 11. beleeuelyes.

17 If any heere do aske mee, howe came it ever about, that such foolishe and ridiculous multitudes of miracles came to bee reported, and inserted into their bookes, I must first ascribe it to the permission of God, who had fore-tolde that so it shoulde bee. Secondlye to the pollicy of Sathan vvhose kingdome by this us by a speciall meanes was inlarged. Thirdly to the cun­ning of the Cleargy in those daies, vvho made themselues great by the keeping vp of such reportes, concerning the sanctitie of any of their confederacy, or of such whose reliques they preten­ded to haue, and gained infinitely by the offeringes done in places of these wonders. And fourthly to the credulity of the people, who would beleeve any thing once set abroach by some suborned for the purpose, or by idle companions. Gulielmus Neu­bringensis was a writer very learned, and iudicious for that time wherein hee lived. And in his storie hee did more then once re­late, the abuse of that age for spreading abroade the fames of miracles. Neubrin­gens. l 3: 7. Henry the eldest sonne of King Henry the second of England, vvho was in his fathers life time crowned King, but dyed before his father, was every where by the people reported to have wrought great miracles after his death: vvhereas in truth he was an vnadvised and rebellious younge Prince. This shevveth hovve apte the people were to intertaine a conceite of any mans doing miracles, yea so farre that if they might haue their willes, they shoulde soone have beene shrined for Saints. Aftervvard Lib: 4▪ 9: there vvas a greate robber, vvho beeing slaine it vvas given out of many olde vvomen, that hee frequentlye did miracles, as if hee had beene some holye person, and this rumour grewe so stronge, and was so generally spredde, that the Bishop was enforced to come to Hampton, & there display the falshood of the whole narration, so that then the superstition was ended. Hee Lib: 5: 19: mentioneth also a third matter of this kinde, [Page 278] that a traiterous fellow of London, called VVilliam with the longe bearde, vvas also reputed a Saint, and a maine do [...] of of miracles. Can vvee have any plainer certificate then this, that by the superstition and credulousnesse of the vulgar sort, many vvonders were saide to bee done, vvhen in truth there vvas no such matter? And if for their commodities sake any of the Cleargie would ioyne and giue countenance to the matter, the party so grovvne to be a Saint, and the fame of his vvon­ders shoulde never bee extinguished. The reader may by these fewe take a tast of the rest of their Saintes and miracles, for thousandes vvere done no othervvise then in this sorte, and e­verie man had not the vvitte to see the fraude, nor that cou­rag [...] to reporte it as Neubringensis had. And vvhat levvdenesse may wee imagine vvas practised amonge simple people in those darke dayes of Popery, vvhen in so glorious a sunne-shine of the Gospell, any Seminarians shoulde dare in England to at­tempte such a practise, as Father VVeston the lesuite, and Decl [...]rati­on of Po­pish impo­stures pra­ct [...]sed by Edm. no lesse then a vvhole douzen of Priestes conspiring vvith him, did of late for some yeeres togither put themselues into? They persvvaded some men and three maydens, that they vvere possessed vvith the Devill, and that they by their Priest-exor­cizing faculties could fetch him in & out, vp and downe at their pleasure. They had a holy chaire to set their abused Disciples in, and a holy potion to administer to them; both matters pre­tended to be formidable to the foule spirits, but indeed trickes to cast their patients into straunge fits, that so they might seeme, as wel to themselues as others standing by, to be possessed in most hideous manner. And this was so artificially carried by the Iesuit and his fellowe Iuglers, that diverse hundreds of vnstable and vnadvised people, being cousened and cunny-catched by their impostures were contented to bee reconciled to the Church of Rome, being wonne there vnto by their stupendious miracles. A booke also or two was penned, to be spread abroade beyond the seas, of the admirable dominering of these Priests over the pos­sessing spirits, and of the wonders which they had done vppon them. Notwithstanding now by the confessions of three of the females, & one man, al which then were the pretended possessed [Page 279] persons, & of another thē a Priest & a personal actour in this ex­ploit (all these five being sworne & speaking vpon oth) it is ma­nifestly and vndoubtedly discovered, to be most egregious, in­signious, illustrious both varletry & vilainy, that among mē pro­fessing religion & devotiō was ever heard. A man may wel sup­pose, that the casting out of Devils, and doing of other wonders in India & farre countries, by the Iesuites and Priestes, is a true honest & holy matter, when such vnspeakeable, & vndescriba­ble hypocrites, do dare before such multitudes of theselues con­scious of their own fraud before such troupes of stāders by, some of thē being to be presupposed to be ordinarily intelligent, & in Englād where a ielousy is iustly had of their impostures, to play, acte, exploit, so lewde, fraudulent and wicked a Pageant, and thinke that they may not only go currant away with it heere, but that the fame of this busines bruted els-where, should serve thē beyond the Seas for Catholike purposes, and bee a meanes to holde vp the reputation of the Antichristian Papacy. If our seduced Romanistes vvoulde not close their eyes, they might see vppon what trashe their religion is builte, and that their lea­ders care not howe they bee abused and ledde by the nose, so that their owne proiectes and int [...]ndments be affected.

18 To draw then toward an end of this point, Popish won­ders for the most part we precisely hould to be lies: others of thē if they be done, to be no better in respect of their end, but delu­sions and meanes to deceive men, by bringing them into errour. And cōcerning those that are really done, first we maintain, that they do not prove that the doers of thē are Gods servāts. For evē in Bede himselfe who was such a magnifier of miracles, I do find that one Eccle. his [...] lib. 3. 25. Vilfridus could say thus, Cōcerning your father Colūba & his followers, whose sanctity you say you imitate, & follow his rule & pre­cepts even confirmed by signes from heavē, I can answere that at the day of iudgment many saying to the Lord, that in his name they have prophe­cied, and cast out Devils, & done many wonders, the Lord shall aunswere I knovve you not, vvhich aunswere of Vilfridus beeing grounded on the vvordes of CHRIST is of infallible verity. Secondlie we saye that miracles done doe not confirme, that the doctrine of those vvho doe them, is verity: since that for the convincing [Page 280] of the Devill, God hath suffered heretikes to do wonders: not to ratifie their errours, but to confirme other of his truth. VVhich may aptly be applyed to the reports of miracles shewed by the Iesuits in the Indies, if so be that any of them be true. For Con. ca. 2 Co­sterus one of their own companions most appositely informeth vs thus, They doe saie that some of the Novatians in times past did miracles, but it vvas in testimonte of the Catholike faith amonge the Gentiles, not in vvitnesse of their errour, as hee vvho did cast out Divels in Christes name, in the ninth of Luke. Then the doctrine of wonder-doers may be false, as the persons of miracle-workers may be reprobates. To Prophecie saith Saint De simpli. praelatorū. Cyprian, and to cast out Devils, and to doe greate wonders on the earth, is a high and admira­ble matter. Yet he doth not attaine the kingdome of heaven, vvhosoever is founde in all these, vnlesse hee doe goe in the observation of a tust and right vvay. Thirdely vve teach that it is no argument of false­hoode in faith, not to bee able to doe vvonders, since the time of them is ceased, and vvhen they were at the best, they had in them no enforcement to make men beleeue the trueth. For as [...] Chrysostome saith, Amonge the Iewes also, miracles were shewed [...] Inpsa. 45. neither by them vvas there any profite brought to their salvation. For as the beames of the Sunne are not sufficient, vnlesse the [...] also bee pure and sounde, so neither heere also doe onelie miracles suffice. And so Saint [...]e duplici martyrio. Cyprian, H [...]vve manie incureable diseases deathe Lorde heale with a word, to how many blinde men did hee giue sight, &c. And yet few beleevedon him, & hee heard, In Beelzebub hee casteth out De­vils. Afterward it was so even with the same Iewes, they in the time of Soct. li. 3. 17. Iulian the Apostata going about to reedifie the temple at Hierusalem, and God shewing three straunge vvon­ders against it, but yet they woulde not come to Christianitye. Not long after that, Lib: 7: 4: a Iew comming to be a Christian was mi­raculously healed of a disease, and yet the rest of his nation would not receiue Christ. Then the ende of them novve is to little purpose, the execution of them common to the wicked vvith the godlie, the practise permitted to Antichrist and his followers, no such perpetuall marke-set on those that bee Or­thodoxe, and therefore wee striue not for them, but knovve that God hath lefte a surer vvaye to vvinne men from errour, [Page 281] and to try who are in the trueth, and that is his worde and the operation of his sacred spirite. But yet vvee are not so blinde but to see, nor so vnthankfull but to acknovvledge, that the Lorde hath for the advauncement of the Gospell vvhich vve preache, done marveilous thinges. In vvhich sorte vvee ac­counte the large spreading of the trueth by the meanes of Lu­ther; his vvonderfull preservation all his dayes, notwithstan­ding his enemies, so many, so mighty, so malicious; his dying quietly Sleid. l. 16 in his bed, in such peace of body and minde, and in that honourable accompte, as that even then vvhen hee dy­ed, hee vvas chosen an arbitratour to decide controversies be­tweene the noble Countyes of Mansfeld. VVee thinke that it vvas marveilous, that vvhen such a [...] massacre was made of the Protestantes in Fraunce, in the yeere 1572, there shoulde re­maine [...] Commēt: relig. & reiptn Gal. lib: 10. so many still, as haue propagated so renoumed a Church, as they haue at this day. That such plenty of Lib: 12: fish should bee cast vp dayly by the sea, at the seege of Rochel, vvhereby as by Manna from heaven, the people vvere for so many months releeved, and the very day that the enemies campe brake vp, the comming of the fish ceased. VVhat may vvee think that so small and maligned a Citty as Geneva is, shoulde be so long helde against the invasions and infinite plots of the Duke of Savoy, and other vvho desire the ruine & desolation of it? What of the Netherlanders, that after so many thousande Spanyardes and Italians buryed in their coastes, so many millions of Indian gold & silver spent in their country, such frawd, such force, they should stand rich and glorious at land and at sea, in better case of themselues then ever they vvere? Lastlye vvhat may bee ima­gined of the life and raigne of our late blessed Soveraigne, who after so many daungers comming to the Crowne, and that in so many difficulties of subiectes at home, and forraine Prin­ces abroade, yea and of the Divell every where, did professe to maintaine the truth of God, & to deface superstitiō? And in this beginning, she with vniformity cōtinued, yeelding her land as a Sanctuary to al in the world groning for liberty of true religion, florishing in wealth honor, estimation, every way admired by al the Monarkes whither the same of her did come, and leaving [Page 282] matter for such a story as no Prince hath lefte the like. This Queene after the defeating of the invincible Navy in the yeare 1588, and after many other renourned prosperities, notwithstā ­ding the frequent conspiracies of vngodly persons against her, by the favour of the Highest, vnder the shaddow of whose wings shee was ever safe-garded, dyed in peace, in a full and glorious age, so beloved, honoured and esteemed of her subiects as never any Prince more. And God to testifie his owne worke, left at her death no noted calamity or misery in the kingdome, no warres, but even Ireland then calmed, no famine, no apparāt pestilence, no inundation of waters, but plenty and a boundance, with in­expected tranquillity. Yea to the end that he might crowne her with blessings, he put vnity & agreement into the Nobles, Cler­gy and Commons of the land, that readily they submitted them selues to the lawfull & royal successour, vnder whom we doubt not but to enioy religion and all earthly happinesse. Let our Pa­pists weigh whither these things be not wonderfull. We in the meane time say, They [...] are the Lordes doing, and they are marveilous [...] Ps. 118: 23: [...]n our eies.

AS true Miracles never were wrought, but by them who were of the true Church, so heavenly Visions and the gift of Prophecte vvere never founde to bee but in the same. And therefore the [Page 283] holy Apostle amonge other things which hee vseth to commende his do­ctrine and himselfe to the Corinthians against Heretikes, and false Apo­stles hee bringeth in this as one saying, Now will I come to the Vi­sions 2: Cor: 12: and Revelations of our Lord, &c. And Saint Peter alleageth 2: Pet: 1: for consfirmation of his preaching the transfiguration of our Lords in the mounte vvhich hee savve, and calleth it a Uision: hee had a Uision of Matth: 17: Act: 10, & 11 asheete vvith all kindes of beastes in it, vvhen hee vvas to deale vvith the Gentiles, And for the trueth of Religion, and confirmation of that which they did Act. 2 Hee alleadgeth the Prophecie of Iocl, who saith a­mongst other things, your young men shall see Visions, and to bee Ioel: cap 2: breefe of this sporte is the vvhose booke of the Apocalyps. So that to see these kinde of heavenlee Uisions, and thereby to foretell things most cer­tainly, is only amongst them who are of the true Church.

WHen I haue breefly told you, that almost every worde of the greatest part of this Chapter is taken from the seaventh of your Maister [...] Bristowes Motiues, per­haps [...] Bristowe Motiv 7: some friend of yours will aske mee, when my purpose is to cease from remē ­bring you of this matter, since so oft I sing the same song. My answere will be that when you leaue to steale out of o­ther mens writings, I shall leaue to tell you of the same: but that I feare will not be till we come to the ende of your little booke. Such a gift you haue to continue that which you haue well be­gunne. Howe and by what meanes miracles to false and evill endes, and yet themselues thinges miraculously done, haue and may be by Sathan, Antichrist, and their followers brought about I haue shewed before. And it is as certaine that Visions, which to doating and deceived folks seeme heavenly, and so also sup­posed or pretended Prophecies, are of the same nature in our daies, do proceede from the same roote, & are applyed to build vp falshood and vntruth in the selfe same sort. Neither are these late forgeries or illusions any thing helped, by those divine Re­velations [Page 284] which formerly haue beene made; since they & these haue no affinitye or coherence the one vvith the other. That S. 2. Cor. 12: 1 Paule to stoppe the mouthes of the false Apostles who de­pressed his authoritie, did mention a Vision of his owne, is a mat­ter agreed vpon; as also, that S. 2: Pet: 1: 17 Peter to testifie that what hee preached concerning Christes glorie was true, mentioneth the transfiguration of his maister in the mount, to the which he was an eie-witnesse. And this by Iesus himselfe was teermed a Math: 17: 9 Vi­sion. Neither is it to bee doubted, but at the same time vvhen the same Peter was to bee instructed, that Gods pleasure vvas to giue the Gentiles accesse into the Church, as well as the Iewes, he had from heaven an apparition of a Act. 10, 11: 13. sheete full of all beastes cleane and vncleane, and a voice added therevnto, Kill and eate. But we would gladly learne what it is that you can conclude out of these, since the persons, the times, the vse is now most differēt, you having no affinity, nor keeping any quarter with the Apo­stles, no not retaining so much interest in them, as the Saracens have in Abraham, from whome by the Sozom. 6, 38. bond-woman they are lineally descended. And yet it would bee helde but a ridiculous dispute for one of thē to say, that Abrahā was familiarly acquain­ted with God, pleased him, & had many blessings & favours frō him therfore they the Hagarenes and Mahumetanes, are in the same grace with the Lord, & may plead any favours or privilege frō him. Touching that place of the Prophet Ioel. 2: 28: Ioel which you cite, it hath relatiō to the sensible sēding down of the gifts of the ho­ly Ghost, which was fulfilled soone after Christes ascension. And this was intimated again by our Saviour himselfe in other words, He [...] that beleeveth in me saith the Scripture, out of his body shall flovve rivers of water of life, vnto which the Evangelist immediately sub­ioyneth [...] Ioh: 7: 38. This spake he of the spirit which they that beleived on him shold receive, for the holy Ghost was not [...]et givē, because that Iesus was not yet glorified. The Prophet Ioel thē foretelleth, that when Christ had appeered, there shold be visible & most admirable tokēs of Gods power & loue to his Church, in so much that many of all ages & sexes first among the Iewes, & afterward by some farther cōmu­nicating of it among the Gētiles, shold speake with strāg tōgues, shold see visiōi & prophecy. And that the words of Ioel have re­ference [Page 285] to this & nothing else, S. Peter himselfe shal be witnes, whose speech this is, Act. 2. 16: These are not drunken as you suppose, since it is but the third houre of the day, but this is that vvhich was spoken by the Prophet Ioel, And it shall be in the last daies saith God, I wil powre out of my spirit vpon all flesh, & your sonnes & your daughters shall prophecy, & your younge men shall see visions, & your olde men shall dreame dreames. And to shew that this is appropriated to that, which thē & quick­ly after was shewed by the Apostles (I meane the speaking with strang tōgues, & the imparting of that gift to other, by thē as the instrumēts of God) the same Peter hath these words afterwards, Since 33. then that Christ hath received of his father the promise of the holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this which yee now see and heare. Looke then how lōg speaking mitaculously with strang tongs cōtinued in the Church, so long you may pleade out of this texte, that vi­sions and Prophecies had their place: but that hence you should inferre that these thinges have perpetuall vse in the Church, is most incongruous and inconsequent: since the gifte of speaking strange languages is long since ceased, which at that time vvas more eminent and apparaunt then Visions and Prophcying. Now that the words of Ioel, are to bee vnderstood of that time only, witnesseth S. Ad Mar­cellam ad­versus Montanū. Hierome, who being vrged out of that very text to allow the visions & prophecies of Montanus, saith plain­ly that the same Prophecy agreeth to the time of the Apostles wherein Peter spake, and vnto none other. And as this maketh nothing for that which you are to prove, if your meaning bee to prove any thing, so your mentioning of the Apocalypse maketh lesse then nothing: for that which Iohn there sawe is the last Re­velation commended to vs by the Lords warrant, and wee may not looke for any more such, where-vpon as on a matter of cer­tainty, we may build our faith. S. Iohn made Canonicall Scrip­ture of his Visions, which I trust yours cannot be. Which yet ne­vertheles you might as wel proue, as to make this argumēt, Iohn did see Revelations & Visiōs which were frō God, & they gaue testimony to his doctrine, Ergo you see such, and yours be of that sort. Your Reason from those auncient ones to these of your Pa­pacy, is a bacule ad angulum, tyed togither with points, most vnor­derly and vnconcluding. So that to allowe you that these kinds [Page 286] of hea [...]ly Uis [...]s, and thereby to f [...]tell things [...], is [...] [...]gst them who are of the tr [...] Ch [...]h, I may adde, and of such as are immediatly inspired from God; is nothing at al to your pur­pose. When you proue your Vision-seers to haue the same war­rant, authority and inspiration which the Apostles had, we will readily harken vnto you. But you must take a long day to make that good, as the thirtith of February, or ad Gr [...] Calend [...], and till that time we must looke after you.

FOr although there haue beene Prophecies amongst the Heathens, yet were they not vndoubtedly true, as the Oracles of Apollo, and such like illusions, except they were for the confirmation of right religion, a [...] Euseb. li. 5. hist. c. 16. & 18: Cochlaeus in act: Luth. the Prophecies of the Sybils and of Balaam. And the same may be said of Heretikes [...] of Montanus, of Luther, of Muncer, and of such like, who tooke vpon them to prophecie, some to their vtter shame, and some to their owne destruction.

2 VVEE will not much striue with you about the Pro­phecies among the Heathen, although we doubte not but in ordinary actions of civil affaires, the Divel oftentimes did speake vndoubted truth. VVhich was, the more to draw on and allure those who were the children of vnbeleefe, and repai­red to him for counsaile, that they might beleeue him in such o­ther forged matters as vvere more for his purpose. Else they would never with such frequēcy haue runne to his Oracles. And the meanes vvhereby Sathan attained to that knovvledge, vvas partly by revelation from God, who sometimes imparteth his proiects vnto the [...] Divell, and partly by coniecture of prece­dent [...] Iob 2. 6. [...]. 22. 2 [...] necessary signes, which would inferre or inforce the effects mencioned in Sathans answere, vnlesse God by miracle did alter the consequents. But it is of irrefragable truth, that to confirme divine Religion, the Lord hath vsed the mouth of the reprobat, [...] Num. 2 [...]. 24. c: 24. 2 [...] [...]. 17 [...] yea of the Divell himselfe, in foreshewing things to come. [...] Ba­laam [Page 287] prophecied rightly of the Israelites, of the Amalekites, of the Kenites, yea of the comming of Christ himselfe, the Saviour and victorious conquerour of the world. [...] Caiphas truely fore­tolde [...] Ioh: 11: 50 that one should die for the people, and not all the nation perish. And yet both Caiphas and Balaam were the children of perdition. Apollo in his Oracle, which was nothing else but the voice of Sathan, did vtter many verities: for he was over-ruled by one who was greater then himselfe. Let that one instaunce suffice, vvhich is cyted by Lactantius, and falleth fitly vpon God, and Christ his sonne. For Lacta. d [...] fals. religi­on: cap. 7: Apollo at Colophon be­ing consulted by one to shewe vvho or what God was, it vvas answered,

Borne of himselfe, vntaught, vvithout a mother, stable or individed, his name is not expressible by speech, dwelling in the fire. This is God, and wee Angles are but a small p [...]ce of God. And the like may be saide of the Sibilles, vvhich vvere tenne in number as the same Cap: 6: Lactantius shevveth, and as it may bee gathered out of him there, had many things touching the vnity and power of God, and of his Creating of the world. And De ira Dei ca: 22: & 23 else vvhere the like are by him mentioned to bee delivered from them, as also of the vvrath and vengeaunce of the Lorde against sinne. Saint De civit. Dei l. 18. 23 Augustine hath in like māner certaine verses of Sibilla Erithrea, vvhich are as a Prophecie foretelling and describing the com­ming of Christ, and are the more notable for that Acrostich [...] Christ the S [...]e of God, the Saviour, every verse beginning with one letter of those wordes in the Latin, the [...] Originall whereof [...] In annot. in eū [...]. is cited by L. Vives in the Greeke. Neither doth the holy In orat ad sanct cae [...]ū. apud Euseb Em­perour Constantine forget to apply to our Saviour, that Ecloge of Virgile which was borrowed from the Dictates of Sibilla [...] Cu­maea. Yea all the Sibilles haue spoken so plainely of Christ, that [...] Vir. Ecl 4 [...]. some haue imagined them to be of the number of Gods electe, and chosen of purpose out of the Gentiles: but Gregory Nazi­ [...]zene is directly of another iudgement, Ad Neme­sium. saying that whereas sometimes they ioine with the truth, it is not that this happened [Page 288] vnto them from God, but because they looked [...]slaunt or squin­ting-wise on the bookes of the Scripture. This may be some reason, but I rather suppose, that God who enforced [...] Sathan to confesse Christ to be the sonne of the Almighty, and so to giue [...] Mar: 1: 24 testimony to him among the Iewes, did also vrge these to giue witnes of Christs comming among the Gentiles, although the speakers like Caiphas knew not what they said.

3 Of Montanus and his followers, as also of Priscilla & Maxi­milla two women, Eccl. hist: lib: 5: 16: 17 Eusebius out of Miltiades and Apollonius maketh mention: that he tooke on him to be a Prophet, and they to bee Prophetisses, and that when they would vtter any thing, they were not like true Prophets soberly inspired, and grauely demeaning themselues, but as frantike folkes, & persons possessed with an evill spirit. It is added that their behaviour o­therwise was full of covetousnesse, wantonnesse and vanity. In breefe they and their doctrine came to naught: which had beene the lesse to be pittied, had not Hier: adv: Helvidium: Tertullian, otherwise a worthy man, and a great light in the Church sometimes, beene over-ta­ken by them. [...] Muncer whom you name was a ring-leader of the [...] Sleid: l: 5: Anabaptists, and he togither with one Phiferus his companion, drew togither many thousands of people, perswading them that by visions and dreames they were warned from God to doe as they did. Among otherthings a litle before the ioyning of a bat­taile, he would haue made them beleeue, that a raine-bow which appeared was a signe from heavē that they should prosper. One of his doctrine [...] was, that we were to aske signes from God, and that the Lord did much like that we should so demaunde them, yea and eagerly expostulate with him, if he did not grant them. The end of this man was, that the army which he had assembled of countrey-people was ruinated, divers thousands of thē slaine, he was put to flight, & being taken was executed by the sword. This man could not endure Luther, but publikely preached and inveighed against him; and Luther on the other side detesting his vprores and rebellious sedition, did write against him and his proceedings, whiles he was aliue, & in his greatest strength. And as Luther nothing respected th [...] fained Visions and Prophecies of Muncer, so did hee never assume any such gift vnto himselfe. [Page 289] He would m [...]y [...], [...] truth which he did Contra Regē Angl [...] teach should [...]sper, which h [...] vttered a [...] grounding i [...] on Gods generall pro [...] that the word like the [...] raine from aboue should not returne in vaine, and vpon the ex­perience [...] Isa: 55: 10: which he had of the dayly spreading of it more & more in his owne sight: but t [...]t [...] mad [...] shevv of any such Revelations as you woulde fasten vpon him, the very authour whom at randon you ig [...]ntly [...], shall cleare him: for hee alle [...]ging the speech of one whom he calleth Paulus Abb [...] [...] w [...]ng against Luth [...] [...]ngeth in these words of his: I pray th [...] [...] thy [...], [...] [...]: [...] act. Luther. A [...]: 1534: t [...]gh all the [...] of L [...]r, Th [...] [...] in th [...], w [...]re L [...]her [...] of [...], [...] of the spirite of God, [...]t all his [...], all his [...] and [...] is [...]. The [...] p [...]t he addeth, perverting Lu­thers humble and Christ [...] [...]ssion that he was tempted by Sathan, as all men are, so [...] more, some lesse, to vvickedness [...] but can a man haue a more ample and gen [...]all testimony, th [...] this is out of [...], that Luther never tooke on him the shew of [...], [...] prophecies? So that which you being against the [...] maketh for the truth, & your ow [...] tongue or penne doth cause you to fal [...]by your own sword you do perish. Luther knew that those were the iuggling trickes of your Romish Synagogue and therefore he both wisely & re­ligiously declined them.

BVT the C [...]ke [...] Church, [...] had [...] in all ages, th [...] which had tr [...] Visions and the gift of true Prop [...], as Agabus, Act. 11. Gregory Thaumaturge so Basil. li. de spiritu sancto. Cap. 29. Saint Anthony the Abb [...], Iohn of wh [...] s [...] Saint Aug. l. 5. de civit. Cap. 26. Saint Monica s [...] Aug. lib. 3. Confes. Cap. 11. Saint Benedict s [...] Gregor. [...]. [...]. [...]. cap. 15. S. Bernarde see in [...] vita, lib. 4 cap. 3. S. Frau [...] s [...] in eius vita Bo [...]ventura, with [...], for [...] vv [...] there any vv [...] had the gifte of [...], [Page 290] [...] [...]. A [...] [...], [...] s [...]y P [...] is ( [...] you [...]) wh [...] [...] [...]tedly w [...]er­full [...] you [...]y [...], wi [...] [...] and irr [...]gable t [...]y.

4. IT were worth the while that you should exemplify your visiōs throughout al ages, as you did yo [...] miracles before. But to begin, you do [...]ost discreetely s [...] Agabus in the fore. [...]ont, who by the spirit foretold of a [...] throughout all Act [...] [...]. the world. And what had he to do I pray you with your vn-Ca­tholike Romish strumpet? what doctrine did hee mainetaine which is now in your minte? God knoweth, your forge was not yet going when Agabus spike. He [...] lived in the time of Visions and Prophecies, and had signific [...]tion from the holy Ghost what he should say; from vvhich your Se [...] are most farre. And the Scripture advoucheth this of him. There is nothing his that may touch you, vnlesse you vv [...] appl [...] [...] co [...]porall famine fore-tolde by [...], and veri [...]d vnd [...] Claudius Caesar, to note the spirituall famine, vvhich afterward possessed a greate parte of the vvorlde, while the Popes debarted Christians of the foode of their soules, the breade of life, the holy and Sa­cred Scriptures. Of Gregorius Thaumaturgus, Basile breefely [...] De spiritu Sancto [...] cap: 29: speaketh thus, His predictions of future thing [...] vvere such, that he vvas nothing inferiour to the rest of the Prophetes, vvhere observe that h [...]e nameth no particular prediction, no revelation. And Socrat. lib: 4: 22: Socrates speaking of him, breefely toucheth his miracles, but not a word of any Prophecie or Vision. So that this may well be doubted of: [...] that so much the rather, because Basile sette [...]h his commendation so high, as that n [...]ither you, nor any other man can iustify it, if you wil vnderstand the cōparison to be be­tweene him, & the Prophets mētioned in Gods booke, who have for thē such sufficiēt authority as may not be distrusted, whereas without impiety this narratiō may wel [...] questioned? Ye [...] if this were allowed, you are stil as farre to seeke as before for how will you pro [...] that this man beleeved or maintained your now Ro­mish [Page 291] f [...]h? A [...]y [...] [...]d [...] the M [...]ke, & the [...]ite, but not othe [...]. And of [...] it [...] [...]oned, that he saw in a visiō [...] So [...] 6: 5: som [...] ov [...]ing th [...] holy [...], and sacred table, which was [...] expo [...]d of the [...]. But [...]ke I pray you [...], that he [...], and devoide of all learning, and Lib. 1. 13. therefore his [...] are not m [...]h to be builte vppon. Secondly that he had little, or nothing in him s [...]ing with Popery: for the monkish life of him and others in those daies was of a most diffe­rent sort from these our belly gods, who would never haue en­dured to li [...] as those olde Heremites; and their profession & re­ligion is much disagreeing. Thirdly that although it bee saide of him, that by the helpe of so gre [...] vertues, hee had attained divine fore­knowledge, yet the same Authour addeth farther that to fore-kn [...] things to come, he himselfe did not accoūt to be [...] the number of vertues. And therfore he did gi [...] [...] that [...] rashly should bestowe hi [...] time & labour in that matter. Bec [...] [...]ā which was ignorant of fu­ture matters, should suffer [...]y [...], because he was ignorāt of them, neither did he th [...]ke, that he who did fore-know thē, was therfore blessed, or to be a [...]red. He then did not make so much of it, as you doe. And so it appeereth that you ha [...] but ill lucke with the exam­ples which you bringe.

5 Cōcerning Iohn, S. De civit. Deil: 5: 26: Austen saith that Theodosius being to fight against Maximus, did not sēd to inchaūters but to Iohn, who abode in the wildernesse of Aegypt; which servāt of God he had learned by cōmō report, to be indued with the spirit of Prophe­cying, & frō him saith he, [...]e received a most certaine message of victory. Al this while, what maketh this for the Church of Rome, more thě for the Anabaptists, or any other who wilchalēge him? Monica Confess: 3: 11. S. Austens mother much grieving that her sonne was a Maniche [...], did weepe & pray ince [...]tly for his cōversion. At last being in a dreame, she imagined that she stood vpon a woodden ruler, & a yong man with a mery coūtenance came to her, and as­ked her why shee was so sadde, Shee answered that she bewailed her sonnes destructiō. To which he replied, that she should be of good cheere, for where [...] was, h [...] son was. And looking about she saw her sonne stād on the same rulet with her, which impor­ [...] to her, that [...] should in time come to the Orthodoxe. In [Page 292] this vertuous woman you can haue no interest, vnlesse it be that according to the Lib. 6. [...]. custome in Afrike her country, shee brought meate & drinke as to make a bāket at the memory of some mar­tyrs, which I take to be their tombs; but therfore she was rebuked & forbiddē by that reverēd Bishop Ambrose, accoūting hir fact to be but an imitatiō of the heathē; vnto which inhibition of his, she with quietnes did cōsent. Of Gregor▪ Dialog. lib. [...]: 15. Benedict we do finde, that he foretold many matters to To [...]la the King of the Gothes, that he shold enter Rome, raigne 9. yeers, & die the 10. And he also fore­signified to a Bishop the desolatiō of Rome, & in what māner it shold be, of what credit the book is whēce this is takē, I have spo­kē before. That which is cited of S. Vita nern. lib. 4. 3. Bernard is this, that he fore­told, that albeit a Prince called Theobald had many troubles frō his enimies, yet at 5. mōths end he shold haue peace. Also he ac­quainted a certain messēger sēt vnto him, that he the same mes­sēger shold become a mōke. And such like are the Visiōs & pre­dictiōs reported of him, which as the writer of his life taking thē vp on heare-saies might fasten vpō him, to make his life & story the more famous (for this or the lik was the order for al the Saīts) so may it not well be questioned, whether God in this later age would giue such an excellent gift as prophecy is, to so smal a pur­pose, as only to tel such matters of so smal moment, belōging to single yea & some private mē only. Alois Lip­poman, in in vitis Sāctorum. The life of their Frācis wri­tē by Bonavētura, is so foolish & yet so blasphemous a thing, as it is fitter to bee exploded then refuted. There he telleth that this hypocrite had a visiō of certaine crūmes, which betokened the increase of his society of Franciscanes: & to ratifie this, he had 5. wounds set on him by God, like the woundes of our Saviour, & this was a confirmation of his order, as if he the Pope had imprin­ted some seale on it, & allowed it. He hath afterward a Chapter De divinis condescensionibus ad nutum factis, as if he could haue re­velations from heaven at the least becke of his. Yea hee saith of him that he could vnderstand the secrets of mens harts. These re­ports as amōg fools they adde much to the worship of that Frier: So amonge the wisest they appeere to detracte much from the peculiar honour of CHRIST and his Father. These are the examples which you bringe vnto vs, whereof there are fewe which so much as in shewe make ought at all for your Popery: [Page 293] and there is none of them, but in that perticuler lieth to manifest exception. So that your miracles and visions maye in like sort be reiected, as vncertaine, fradulent, fained, and communicable to the wicked as well as to the godly, and such mayserue to vphold falshoode as much as truth. In the Scripture they who had the one gift from God, many times had the other ioyned with it: but that alwayes was not so for ought that I finde, and whether it were or were not, it maketh not to your pupose. Your Papisti­call visions in our daies are either diabolicall illusions, or the in­ventions of couseners, whose sufficient and irrefragable testimony, is nothing else but the doting fancy of some melancholike person, or the lewde devise of other who vvoulde make themselues fa­mous, or else proiect something for the establishing of plotted purposes. And if any go about to sift thē or rifle thē vp, they haue no other warrāt but to strēgthen thē, with such other reportes, as vncetaine, & of as feeble a relation as the first, & so on, on with twenty, evē as the liar in Lucian. in [...]hilopseud. Lucian doth: or as it is the māner of fi­gure-casters, to cōmend their practise; or as it was wonte to be in tales of the walking of the spirits, & of chambers wherin no man might dare to lye, in al which, the cōfirmatiō of one tale, was still by telling such another fable, that so one might strengthen another. We neede no better example of the goodnesse of this stuffe, then blind Motiv. 7: Bristowes reports in this behalfe, who would insinuate that one M. Allington, a Papist belike had wonderful sights, yet he will not tell vs what, but sendeth vs vp and downe London, and wee may heare of them. So you knowe diverse and sundry Papistes, vvho haue seene vndoubtedly vvonderfull visions, vvhich perhaps vvee may see recorded heereafter. You do well to say perhaps, for it would be a good while first, vnlesse it come out a­gainst your will, as somewhat hath done, vvhereof you shall heare anone: but if you woulde put it out, it woulde be a brave booke for vvinter nightes in steede of a nevve Legende. Ano­ther of M. Bristowes fabulations is, that one who was a Papist in hart, being at an English Cōmunion, saw the Devil in the liknes of a fowle blacke Dogge, take the Communion still at the hand of the Minister, as he delivered it to the cōmunicāts. What lucke our Papists haue, that they alone can so oft see the Devill? And [Page 294] they alone can haue the Devils in them, which finde worke for the exorcists? He is simple that seeth not, that this was a devise to driue men frō the participation of the Lords supper. A third he hath, that a great many Cōmunion bookes lying in a sicke mans chamber, were caught vp by a fire which seemed to haue many hands, & so were throwne into a flame. He who wil so lightly be­stow so much of his beleife as to credit this, may demurre vpō this actiō, whither it were not the Devils owne deed, who cānot away with the Communion booke, & therfore burneth it, not because it is bad, but because it is against him: & so have his disciples dōe. And the like may be expoūded of the black doge before, not en­during that the people shold participate of those holy misteries. It might also be asked, what so many Cōmuniō books did in one Chāber? Notwithstāding we rather hold al these things to be hu­mane fictions, or if they were done, to be diabolical illusions.

6 BVT heere to come neerer the state of this wise Rea­son, It is most true that there was a time when visions & dreames, & Prophecies were of good force, God v­sing to do by his children as Iob speaketh, that is, talketh to thē in Iob. 33. 15. dreams, & visiōs of the night, whē sleepe falleth vpō thē, & they sleepe vpō their beds. So G [...] [...]: Abimilech was warned in a dreame to abstaine frō Sara, & Cap 28 [...]2 lacob had his dreame of the ladder, & 1: Reg: 3. 5 Salomō was willed in a dreame to aske what he wold. And of this sort we find very many other, which advertised mē of the Lords special wil in many particulars. In like māner there is warrāt for diverse visiōs, as whē God cōforted [...] Iacob in a Visiō, & when he appeered to [...] Gen. 46: 3 1 Sam 3 [...] 1 Samuel, professing what iudgmēt he would bring vpō the house of [...]li. So in the new Testamēt, Act 1▪ 3: Cornelius & Cap. 9. 121 Ananias had their visiōs. And for Prophecying, Moses & all other who were so in­spired frō the Lord, do sufficiētly speake. And yet even in those daies we find that it was not safe, to trust al things which came in the n [...]me of prophecyings & visions & dreames. For there were false Prophets as is plaine by 1. Reg: 22: 11. Zidkiah & many more. And Iere­my schooleth the people, Ier. 27. 9: Heare not your Prophets, nor your so [...]th­sayers, nor your dreamers, who say vnto you thus, Yee shall not serve the King of Babel, for they prophecy a lie vnto you. And in another place he saith of other, Cap: [...]3: 10. & [...]5. They speake the visiō of their own hart, & not out of [Page 295] the mouth of the Lord. And afterward God saith, I have heard what the Prophets said, that prophecy lies in my name, saying I have dreamed, I haue dreamed. This is thē a dāgerous thing for credulous people to be deceived by, vnlesse they chāge their iudgmēt & bee very wary. God therefore addeth farther, Vers. 28. The Prophet that hath a dreame, let him tell a dreame & he that hath my word, let him speake my word faithfully. It is then Gods word faithfully looked into, which must be the directiō to the speaker & the hearer. Else how soone might mē be deceived? That 1: Reg. 13. 9: 18. Prophet of the Lord may veryfie this, who himselfe was quickly beguiled through credulity, at the instance of another Prophet, Nehem. 6 [...] 10. perswading him directly against Gods wil revealed vnto him. Notwithstāding Nehemiah being wiser, whē he might haue bin so catched by Shemiah pretēding a revelation, did not harken vnto him, but looked to that duty which was cōmaūded him. And that was it wherin mens spirit of discretiō did cōsist in those daies; to look whether they furthered the Lords service or no, when they spake, & whether other ap­proved circumstances did concurre; for in other general matters the good & the bad, might externally seeme to ioine. The place of Deuter. 13. 1: Deuteronomy is in this behalfe worth the cōsidering, where it is saide that a Prophet may come, or a dreamer of dreames, and may give a signe or a wonder, & that also may come to passe, & yet he may be a deceaver drawing to false Gods, and is not to be followed. Then evē in those times, visions, dreames, & prophe­cyings taken in themselves were but tickle things to rest on, nei­ther had they any sure groūd, but from the word, by which they were to be tried. That without them was forcible, they disagree­ing from it were nothing.

7 But now since that Christ is come, we are taught in no sort to depēd vpō thē: for the doctrin is general, & cōcerning al things, Hebr. 1. 1 [...] At sundry times & in diverse māners God spake in the old time to our fathers by the Prophets, In these last daies he hath spoken vnto vs by his sonne, which Antithesis doth intend, that miracles & al means sa­ving the word of Christ, are now cut off, frō resting our vndoub­ted faith thervpō. But in special touching visiōs & miracles, whē the Luc. 16: 29. Rich mā is brought in, as desiring that Lazarus might strāg­ly be sent, or appeere as a ghost, or in some vision, to warne his [Page 296] brethren, our Saviour frameth Abrahams answer, They haue Mo­ses and the Prophets, let them heare them, as holding that alone to be sufficient, and cutting of all other points, from being matters of certainety, where-on to rest our faith and soules. And yet as it was said of Miracles before, we deny not, but that after the ascē ­sion of Christ, & the death of the Apostles, some & seldom times visions might be shewed to some of the elect, for their privat in­structiō, satisfactiō or comfort, as Eus. Eccl. Histor 4. 14 Polycarpus did dreame that he shold be burnt for Christ, & Lib. 5: 27: Natalius by stripes givē him, or see­ming to be givē him by Angels, was revoked frō heresy to an Or­thodoxe opiniō, & so was Hier: epist 22▪ ad Eust: Hierom frō overmuch studying Tul­ly & humane learning: & Theo: 516 Theodosius did dream that he should be Emperour. Where obserue we two things: first that these visi­ons were touching privat mens ma [...]ere, & not to teach; & much lesse to broch any new or vncertain doctrine to the Church: for which purpose our Papists do vrge their visions, & especially to establish Purgatory & the appurtenances therevnto. Secondly that albeit in some few God did this, yet it was not laid downe as a fundamētal matter, that there should alwaies in the Church be such persons, neither might any mā presume to say that continu­ally there should be such a vocatiō [...] neither could any person by an assured faith promise himselfe or other, that hee should haue such sights or predictions; neither is there any Cōmandement to test ought in religion thervpon: but rather there is much more to the cōtrary. For we heare oftē of false Prophets, & Christ biddeth vs Mat 7: 15 beware of them. Before that Hierusalē should be destroyed, which is a figure of the end of the world, he saith that Cap 24: 11 many false Prophets should arise, & should deceiue many. And if the rule bee true that where miracles be, there also are visions, thē it is one of Anti­christs mark, to stand on dreames & apparitions: for we are tolde that he shall come 2: The: 2 9 with all power & signes & lying wonders. But to put al out of question it is added, that his manifestation shall be with all deceiueablenes of vnrighteousnes, & therfore we may right­ly collect that these visions or rather fraudulent fictious, and il­lusions must not be wanting. How shal we then iudiciously ima­gine, that this may be a reason to conclude for truth, when it selfe is fully out as much communicable to vntruth? It were easie to [Page 297] shew, that among heathen men this was a frawde vsed to set co­lours vpon their actions. The conference of [...] Numa with Egeria [...] Liv. lib: 11 the Nymph about his lawes; The dayly going of Id. lib: 26: Scipio into the Capitol, as if he had talked with Iupiter; the dreames of Alexan­der and other prodiges expounded by Curt. lib. 4. & 7. Aristander; the hart or hinde which Plut in Sertorio. Sertorius pretended to come to him as a messen­ger from the Goddes, do come within this compasse, and are di­rectly here appliable, or at the least equivalent to that which is now handled. As for Mahomet, he is in the beliefe of his follow­ers, inferior to no Prophet that ever spake, his whol Alcorane be­ing nothing els, but instructions pretēded to be delivered by ap­paritiōs. And therfore it is Coel. Aug: Curio. Sa­rac. hist: l. 1 [...] writtē of him, that somtimes he wold say, that the Angel Gabriel was oftē times sent to him: & being much troubled with the falling sicknes, hee bore those in hande which were about him, that his fits were trances, he was in soule wrapped vp into heavē, & he was inspired frō God to teach di­vers duties vnto men. In breefe this is it, wherin not only the old Eus. l. 5. 16▪ Mōtanists did take on thē to excel, & Merline, to whō as In praefat. Neu­bringensis saith, G [...]lfridus Monumethēsis doth attribute no lesse, thē we do to Isaiah, saving that it is not inserted into Merlines prophecy, Thus saith the Lord. But the Anabaptists herein wil put downe the whole world, for they with sad coūtenance, & a little lesse thē ravished looks, would protest that they had Sleid l. 10 illumina­tions, revelatiōs, apparitiōs for all their lewd cōceits, their having wiues as many as they list, their oppugning of magistrates, their murthering of their own brethren, as one did at [...] Sangallum, cut­ting [...] Surius. Com: Ann: 1527. of his brothers heade in the presence of his father and mo­ther, and affirming that God had reveiled vnto him that so hee must doe. And how shall it bee in mans power, to discerne these false visions from true ones, but by the word and spirit of God, & by singular diligence: which since it cannot be in every one, the allowing of these visions & dreams, is most dangerous for Chri­stians. First it is possible that a mā himselfe either sleeping or wa­king may be deluded by Sathā, which as cōcerning illusions by dreams, Mor: 8: 13: Gregory notably sheweth to be true, & giveth warning to take heed of thē. And secōdly how easy a thing is it for a cūning cōpaniō who is his crafts-master, to invēt such tales, & to sweare thē also, as he did who affirmed that he Liv: lib: 1: saw the ghost of Romulus [Page 298] at Rome? In Popery there were thousands and ten thousands of these inventions, thereby to establish their Masses, Dirges, Tran. substantiation, Purgatory, and such stuffe, and by these the sim­ple were extremely beguiled, their beleefe corrupted, and their purses picked. They who could write that Saint NOV. leg: Angl. in vi­ta Dunstan. Dunstane whē he was awake, saw the Divell and talked with him a while, and at last with a paire of tonges redde hot caught him by the face, pul­led him toward him, and made him most pitifully cry, would litle blush to report other matters of men, halfe or quite a sleepe, of which sort are the visions in the Saints liues. God Almighty hath done much for vs, who hath so farre opened our vnderstanding as to see that this is draffe, and that the Papistes are in miserable case, who rest ther faith and religion on such trumpery.

8 That the visions of the Papacy were such fabulous fictions, wise men did long since discover. Libello contra hy­pocritas. Leonardus Aretinus hath a treatise against the Cleargy of his age, but covered vnder the shew of impugning of hypocrites. Among other their vsages he rehearseth this: It is worth the while to heare an hypocrite preaching amongst women, or amongst men so foolish, that they doe not much differ from women. Here are the fit auditours for their fables. Hee coun­terfeiteth dreames: as if hee vvere come from thence, hee talketh of the houses of heaven, which hee hath never seene. With most shamelesse im­pudencie hee doubteth not to affirme, things fained for things done, things never seene for those which haue beene seene. The womē infatuated with these words, returne home, they extoll him as a holy man, and a friends of God, they send him presents, they returne vnto him with a greater com­pany. By this meanes very good cheere is made. His iourneces puffe vp his nose, that is as I thinke fill him with new matter. He in the mean time like a Poet doth devise dreames which hee may reporte. Thus did some of them invent matter touching themselues, and some that which concerned other men. And oftentimes the wit of one went not alone, but there were metings & conspiracies to frame devises for purposes. The matter of [...] Elizabeth Barton the Nun [...] Acta Parl. sub Hen: 8. An. 25: c: 12 in Kent, was so vsed in the daies of King Henry the 8: when a­mong her companions, much was spread to commende her san­ctity, many things divulgated of her visions, and all the country was set a gogge vpon her words: yea Fisher himselfe the Bishop [Page 299] of Rochester, either disloyally and dishonestly as concealing, or ignorantly and simply as beleeving, was a partaker in that forge­ry. But the matter was nothing but to discountenance the kings divorce from the Queene Katherine of Spain, formerly his bro­ther Prince Arthures wife, and to stirre the people to rebellion therevpon. And at last all was confessed by the Nunne her selfe and other her Complices, and by Act of Parliament many ther­fore were attainted, and accordingly received punishment. If they should be well examined, the Visions which are fathered on Philippus Nerius of whom I spake before, and who not [...] ma­ny [...] An: 1595. yeares since dyed at Rome, would proue to be of this quality. Divers of his friends Eius vitae l: 1 An: 1556 dying are said to appeare vnto him, & he saw their soules immediatly passing into the kingdome of hea­ven. Nay An: 1559: Christ himselfe was seene of him. And as he saw Vi­sions for other, so other saw some for him; whence we may learne that false laddes neede no other brokers then themselues. This Philip and his fellowes had pretended to go into India to con­vert soules, but one An: 1557: Augustinus Ghettinus a Monke and confe­derate of his, saw Iohn the Evangelist in a Vision, who told him that Rome must be Philips Indies, that he was chosen to dresse Gods vineyard there. Thus they packed togither, that their cre­dit might be saved, and yet they might sleep at home in a whole skinne also. Since that time Father Weston alias Edmundes the Iesuite, and his fellowes the Priestes haue made great vse of Visions in England, especially by the meanes of one Richarde Mainy who since by confession on his A declara­tion of Po­pish Impo­stures: Confes. of [...] Mainy. oth, hath discovered all to be but an impure and most cousening iuggling devise. It was long beleeved touching him, that he saw a glistering light come from the thumbs and fore fingers of the Priests at sundry times; which was devised to make the world beleeue, that those thūbs and fingers were most holy matters, being annointed with holy oyle when they were made Priests. In a traunce of his he said he was in Purgatory, and reported many strang things thereof, Al­so he foresawe that from that time till Good-Fryday he should haue Visions every Sunday, and this with like frawde was ac­complished, sometimes it being prophecied that Papists should sustaine great persecutions in England: and sometimes it beeing [Page 300] related that Christ with great multitudes of Angels, or the Vir­gin Marie with traines of blessed, Virgins, were present in the Chamber, and then downe the stāders by must on their knees, to worship thē & pray to thē. One part of Mainies fore-sightes was that on the Good-friday he should dye, but when that day came he was warned that it must be otherwise, & so indeed the deade mā is aliue yet, & hath disclosed the whol devise. Yet the shame­lesse Iesuite aboue named wrote a whole quire of paper concer­ning these Visions of his, and many a silie Papist both be hither and beyond the seas, haue beene bobbed with the strang reports of these counterfeit Revelatiōs, & perhaps have beleeved them as they would do their Creed. Many examples more in this kind might be produced, which may teach men not to be too credu­lous in these cōceits, which evermore originally come vpon the report of one person, for he it is who must tell his owne dreame or Vision, and easie it is for some reporters themselues to be de­luded by the Devill: as easie for some other to delude as many as wil giue credite vnto them. Then since both Divinity and hu­manity doe shew this to be a matter most suspecte, let Papistes accept this for a weake reason of their vnsound beleife: wee for our partes will haue nothing to doe with it.

9 And yet it is not amisse, before the shutting vp of this Chap. to obserue, that they are alwaies beatē with their own rodde. For if we may attribute any thing to those, whō in the last ages they hold for the greatest Prophets, & most authētical seers of Visiōs, Popery is al naught. For we scāt find any who in a general speech is reported to haue had that gifte, but a great parte of his other talke hath bin against the Papacy & Clergy therof. Catalog. [...]estium ve­ [...]at. lib: 15: Hildegardis was by many held to be a Prophetisse, and she did not only taxe the lewde life of the Romish Priests, but their neglect of Ecclesi­astical duty, & their horrible destroying of the Church of God. Among other words she hath these: Thē the meter of the Apostolike honor shal be devided, because no religiō shal be foūd in the Apostolicalor­der, & for that cause shal they lightly esteeme the dignity of that name, & shal set vp vnto thēselues other mē & Arch-Bishops: so that the keeper of the see Apostolik at that time by the diminishing of his honour shal scant haue Rome & a few things adioyning vnder his miter. About the same [Page 301] time also which is more thē 400. yeeres agone, lived Ibide [...]. Mech [...]hil­dis reputed al so for a Prophetisse. And she speaking of cōtentiōs which shold be in Germany for religiō, addeth that thē the church of Rome, should wholy apostate opēly frō the faith of Christ, & that there should remaine in Germany a poore & afflicted company who should serve God religiously & purely. There was also one Ibidem. Elizabeth a maiden & attendant on Hildegardis, who is recorded to have such pre­dictions & invectiues against the Romanists. The Prophecies of Ioachimus Abbas, & Anselmus termed Episcopus Marsicanus, are lately An. 1589: put out at Venice by Paschalinus Regiselmus, & there is the Pope still pictured in his triple crowne, and he hath part, nay seemeth to be the cheefe in al the iniquity there intended. Bri­git who lived about the yeere 1370. is by our Papistes helde for a famous Prophetisse, and by the Pope she is Canonized for a Saint. In her Catalogs lib. 18. Revelations, she calleth the Pope a killer of soules, the disperser & tearer of the sheepe of Iesus Christ. Shee saith that hee is more abhominable then the Iewes, more cruel then Iudas, more vui [...]st then Pelate, worse and viler then Lucifer himselfe. That the seate of the Pope shall be drowned in the deepe like a heavy stone. That those who sit with him shall be burned in fire of brimstone which is not to be quenched. Thus did shee and many other scowre the Church of Rome, which as it seemeth, Doctour Hill knevve vvell inough, and therfore suppressed the names of these, least he shold be thought to mention those who flattered the Popedome. Savanorola by the confession of vnpartiall Iudges was a man who fore-prophe­cied many things. He fore-tolde the comming of Charles the 8. the Frēch King into Italie, & how there he should prevaile. Phi­lippus De bello Neapolitā. lib. 3. Comineus spake with him in person, at such time as the Venetians had thought with their armye to haue entercepted Charles returning home-ward with no great forces. And Comi­neus saith of hi that hīself cōmīg new frō the hēch army, yet was by him informed of many thīgs there dōe, Savanorola knowing thē better beīg absēt, thē he did who was presēt And he told Co­mineus that albeit Charles his master were hardly laid to by the Venetiās, yet he shold escape with safety: only his fault was that by the sword he did not reforme and redresse the abuses of the Clergy at Rome. In briefe, he stil preached against the Romanists [Page 302] and wrote divers things excellently and learnedly which yet ap­peare. But being such a scourge vnto them, the Pope Gui [...]iard hist. lib. 3. excom­municated him, and forbad him to preach: where-vnto when he assented not, they caused a tumult to be raised in the City, ap­prehended him and imprisoned him, put him to torture, and gaue out such a confession of his as they listed, but in the ende they burnt him, where with singular patience he yeelded his bo­dy to the fire, and his soule to God Almighty. From all these & many more I draw this Conclusion, contrary to that of my ad­versary before vrged, That if such as haue beene esteemed for Prophets in this last age, haue had any such gift indeede, and a­ny matter may be built on them, then the Church of Rome is a strumpet, full of corruptions, pollutions, abominations, as the ve­ry denne of Antichrist. And so rest they with their Visions, and sit they with their Prophecies.

NEither may heere the Protestant reply and say, that the Papists builde vpon Miracles, Uisions, Prophecies and vpon such like, but not vpon the UUorde; for all that they alleadge, are most agreeable to the word of God. Neither doe they teach any doctrine but such as is derived out of the holy Bible.

HOw you build vpon the Scriptures, and what account you make of the word of God, we need no better man to declare then your selfe, who do evidently shew to all the worlde, in what reverende e­steeme you haue the sacred Oracles of the Lords booke, when you thinke this to bee a fit place to speake of the Scrip­tures, after your false imputed name of Catholikes, your Uanity and Cousening, your Perverting of Conscien­ces, your lying Miracles, and other your not base, but most base and refuse stuffe. And as you doe place it worthily, so you insist vpon it largely, in this your whole Pamphlet consisting of an 187. Pages, allowing not full out one leafe vnto that, which is the Luk. 10: 42 Unum necessarium, the sole anker of our hope, the foundati­on of our confidence, the ioy of our harts. VVherein you do as your graund Captaines do teach you, who vse but meane spee­ches concerning this word of God, yea and your Conventicle of Session: 4. Trent wickedly equalling and making of the same authori­ty the traditions of men with the written Scripture; which sacri­legious impiety and impure blasphemy, while your auditours do not perceiue & decline, they shew themselues not only blinded but bewitched with the cup of the Apoc: 17: 21 whores inchantments. And even with the like reverence you do vse it here, as it were casting it into an odde corner, and naming it no otherwise, but as to fill vp your nūber, so skirting by it, or skipping over it as the Pli: l. 8. 40 Solin: c: 25 dogs in Egypt do by the river Nilus, where they dare not stand and drinke, but lap as they runne, and runne as they lap for feare of a Crocodile. So when you come to the Scripture, you wil stand to nothing, but touch and goe, for fear least some thing should here start out, which should devour you and your Popery. If you had beene a man of mettal, if there had beene ought in the Bible as­suredly making for you, you should from thence haue cleered some question, as the sacrifice of your Masse, the Supremacy of [Page 304] your Pope, the lawfulnes of your Priest-hood, or one thing or a­nother questioned and controversed, & not haue dealt by it, as one would handle thornes, or take a coale of fire in his hand, be­ing glad when he is first rid of it. Well, we must beare with you for your brevity in this Chapter: but for the manner of this your placing, I cannot chuse but smile, to thinke how you were trou­bled in this your short consultation, whither you should now be beholding to Campian, or to your old Master Bristow: for bor­row needs you must: that is your profession: & Bristow you must not leaue, no not for a little moment, especially since Motiv: 8 [...] some­where he hath these very matters: And yet notwithstanding some variety of stealing would do well: not all out of Bristowe. The resolution then grew that Campians concisenesse was fitter here for your humour, and his very words you would vse. But to set them as the Cam. Rat. [...]. Iesuit did, in the forefront of your booke, were to lay your selfe too open; for some body might haue taken his booke, and first read it out of Latin, and then your first Chapter if it had beene your first Chapter, and read it in English. To satis­fie both then, you took this honest course, that the words should be Campians, and the Methode should be Bristowes, you placing the treatise of the Scripture behind, as worthy Bristow had done before you. This sheweth that you haue a prety wit of your own. To come now to the matter, our reply is in truth as you say, that the sandy foundation of all your rotten building doth rest vpon vncertaineties, your miracles are most fained, your visions are forged, your Prophecies false, all of them out of date, no inforce­ment of verity to be gathered from them. And on the otherside, you haue little acquaintance with the word of God, neither by your good wils do you desire it. That which you doe, you are vr­ged vnto by vs, and then you wrest, you wring, you straine, you stretch, to make some shew for that, which originally is dravvne from your humane inventions. And when it is once set vp, then you labour to haue some colour to warrant it, or at least to make some glose howe simple folke may take it for good payment. Your workes of supererogation, whereby a man may doe more then deserue heaven for himselfe, and haue somewhat to spare for other, your dispensatiō of the treasure of your Church by the [Page 305] Indulgences of your Pope, your Canonizing of Saints, your crea­ting of Lumbus, your forging of Purgatory, & a multitude more or rable rather of vpstart novelties since the age of the Apostles, are derived frō the tricks of their wit, who haue made their purse, their belly, and their worldly pompous honour to be their God, their summū & solum bonū. As for the sacred word, frō thence they are not taken; vnlesse you meane that they be so derived out of the holy Bible, as that they were never in it; & so we deny not, but your superstition may be taken out of it. But were these con­troversed matters but probably to be collected out of the sacred Oracles, you would not runne to such beggerly shiftes, as in this whole Pamphlet of yours, you are driven vnto. They must make a shew with Counters, & cary about thē a purse full stuffed with them, who want gold and silver, & yet cannot for beare, but they will be craking.

ANd for the maintaining thereof, they are not compelled to deny cer­taine parts of Gods holy Booke, as the Protestants and their Prede▪Aug. lib. 28▪ con faust c: 2. & de vtil. cred. cap. 3.cessours, heretikes, haue beene inforced to doe. The Manichees for that their heresies were so manifestly confuted by the Gospell of Saint Mat­thew, and by the Actes of the Apostles, as they sould coine no answere, nor other shift, they denyed them to be Scripture. The Ebionites because the Epistles of Saint Paule disproved most plainely Circumcision, which they maintained, denyed them to be Scripture. Luther reiected the Epistle of S. Iames, because it was so plaine against the doctrine of only faith. His of-spring refused the Bookes of Tobias, of Ecclesiasticus, of the Macha­bees and of some others, because in them is plainely taught the Doctrine of the custody of Angels, of Free-will, of Praier for the Faithfull Soules departed, and of Praier to Saints, all which they deny, and therefore must they needs deny those parts of the holy Bible.

2 YOu charge vs with denying of some partes of Gods holy booke, as not making for vs: and certainely we shoulde repute our selues men impious and irreligious, if wee tooke any [Page 306] thing away from that which is so absolute, that it may well bee compared to a Circle, where if any thing be added, it maketh a balke, if any thing be subtracted, it maketh a bracke. We do right wel know, that he who taketh away ought frō the word of the e­verlasting God, the Lord shal take away his Apoc. 22. 19. portion out of the booke of life, (for the speech may be applied to the whole Scrip­ture as wel as to S. Iohns Revelation) But we wil you to remēber the other part of the holy Ghosts divisiō, that God shal adde the Vers. 18. plagues writen in that booke, to him who addeth ought to the book of the Lord. Whē therfore you labour to establish that for authētical, which is not inspired frō the holy Ghost, but a matter seperat & seiunct, you may iustly fear least you incurre that peril, which you would post of to vs. What heretiks haue done against the Divine volume, we dislike and detest as wel as you. We con­demne it in the August de vtilit. cre­dend cap. 2: & 3: Manichees that they accepted not the old Te­stament; that they questioned the Gospell of Saint Matthew as not being that which S. Matthew wrote, because it manifestlie shewed that Christ was born a mā, which they denied; that they extenuated the authority of the Acts of the Apost. as being much corrupted. For this their-sacrilegious attēpt, we cēsure thē as deep ly, & cōdēne thē as much as you do. The like mind we do cary of the Euse: Eccl. Hist▪ l: 3: 21: Ebionits, whose opiniōs sprūg vp in the time of the Evāg. S. Iohn, & they wold gladly haue retained circūcisiō stil, as being a necessary duty of the Lawe, & that which Christ & his Apostles had received in their own persōs. And because S. Pauls Epistles had so directly oppugned this their cōceit, as also had shewed the whole ceremonial law to be extīguished, they would clean haue expūged thē out of the Canō. We repute these for evil heretiks, & we accept of al the bookes of the old Testamēt, which can be proved to be the Testamēt, & we questiō nothīg of the New. On­ly as you wold not like, if vnto the new Testamēt the Gospell of Nicodemus, or Hermes his Apocriphal Pastor shold be sewed, so we cānot endure that those tracts should be reputed part of the Hebrews Canō, which the Iews never knew. These 2. Periods of the Manichees & Ebionits, as also the 2. next touchīg Luther & his of-sprīg, you haue trāslated word for word out of Cāpiās first Reasō. And if there had bin in you grace, & an indifferēt mīd, you [Page 307] might also haue seene this slāder cōcerning Luther Gul. Wh [...] ­taken Resp. ad Ration. Campiani [...] answered. But your meaning is to be wilfully blind. There is nothing more false then thar Luther reiected the Epistle of Iames. He acknow­ledged it as Scripture, & cited it as he did other books. And how shāfully was Cāpian put to his plūges, whē havīg Luthers works laid before him, & being bidde turne to that place, where Luther so depressed & vilefied that Epistle, he could find no such thīg, but said it was so in a copy of Luthers works which was at Prage in the Emperours Library. And if any had sought it there, then the booke had beene removed to some other place, as the Munsten Cosmogr: l: 2: tree which Aeneas Silvius saith was sought in diverse coūtries, & still missed; that tree I meane whose leaues fallīg into the river, were turned into Barnacles. You might do wel in behalfe of Campian to shew some one of Luthers followers in Germany, Dēmarke or else-where, who is so opposite to S. Iames his Epistle: for those whom some cal the Rigidi Lutherani, do sinke nothing which he held. Since thē both they & we, & al who professe the reformed Religion, do accoūt it Canonical, it is but an idle speculation to make that obiection. And why should Luther fly that booke as crossing the doctrine of only faith, since all other who maintaine that doctrin, do accept of that Epi. also. S. Iames doth not thwart that which S. Paul had taught: for the spirit of God is not cōtra­ry to it self, & if there be any difficulty in one Iac: 2: 24: single text of that Epistle, it is to be explicated out of other places, which are more cleere & opē. S. Paule thē in his Epistles to the Romans & Gala­thiās, hath so manifested that point of Iustificatiō by faith alone, that he who without preiudice wil read the text, shal never need any Cōmentary. It is so plaine that diverse Papists looking into that, & laying aside false and perverted glosses, haue embraced that doctrine. Sleidan. l: 21: Vergerius who intēded to write against Luther in that Argumēt, was by traversing of it, caught himselfe. Nay Ferus and Albertus Pighius who otherwise is a grosse Papist, haue sub­scribed vnto it. And wheras our Papists obiect, that S. Paul saying that a mā is iustified without the workes of the law, doth meane nothing else but the ceremonial law; that is lōg since refuted & resolved by S. Aug: de spirit. & li­ter, cap, 14: Austē otherwise. The same father also doth no­tably shewe, that there is no contrariety betvveene the tvvo [Page 308] In 83, quaest, c. 76. Apostles; for that when S. Iames doth say that a man is iustified by works, he doth no more crosse S. Paule, then the same Apo­stle doth crosse himselfe Rom. 2. 13. saying, The hearers of the Lavve are not righteous before God: but the doers of the Law shall bee iustified. That it is most true which S. Paule hath, that a man is iustified by faith without workes, because no works done before beleeving, helpe toward iustification: but that in beleeving actually a man is repu­ted iust before God, & that if he die immediatly, having no time to worke, yet he by beleeving is iustified: Notwithstanding that if he liue he ought to bring forth good fruit. His cōclusion is that S. Paule doth speake of workes going before faith, & S. Iames speaketh of works following that faith which hath iustified. And a right beleefe wil not be without them, if it have time to shew it selfe. I might heere adde how frequent a thing it is, with diverse Doctors of the Church, to vse the word of onely faith in speaking of our Iustificatiō; but of that hereafter. Thē to shew that neither Luther nor we need feare the Epistle of S. Iames, as crossing our other doctrine, we say that S. Paule doth speake of acceptatiō to be iust, S. Iames intendeth a declaration that we are iustified: the one beateth on that before God, where the setled apprehension of faith prevaileth, which notwithstāding wil not be without his convenient fruit; the other mentioneth that before men, who know not the hart, but must iudge of that which is externall, & therefore it is rightly said by the Apostle, in their persons, [...], 2. 18. Shew mee thr faith out of th [...]e owne workes.

3 Whom you meane by the of-spring of Luther we cānot telt but if al who refuse those books be termed his of-spring, his chil­dren shalbe a thousand yeeres elder then himselfe; for many of the most anciēt fathers did disclaime the books of Tobias, Eccle­siasticus, & the Machabees for being Canonical. & if the rule of Hist, Ecol, lib, 3. 19, Eusebius he good, (as no wise mā wil deny it), that the Canoni­cal volumes may be distiguished frō the Apocryphal & supposi­tious, by the iudgmēt of the church, by the stile, by the matter & purpose of the books, they had great reasō not to acknowledge thē; for the Church vniformly did never admit thē, & they are not writtē in the language of the Iews, to whō Rom. 3, 2. were cōmitted the Oracles of God, & therfore if they were part of Gods Oracles before [Page 309] the comming of Christ, these Iewes should haue admitted them and retained them: which they did not: and the matter of them is but meane and ignoble in comparisō of the vndoubted Scrip­ture. What a doubtful narration is that in Cap. 6. 17 Tobias, that a spirite should smell a perfume, (when spirits haue no flesh & bones, by the testimony of Luc: 24. 39 Christ himselfe, & cōsequētly no organes of sc̄e) & that the hart & liver of a fish should drive away the De­vil? Which if it were so, S. Peter was much overseene, when he taught vs how to repulse Sathā, by 1 Pet. 5: 9. resisting him being stedfast in the faith. For it had bin an easier way to have said, get you the hart & liver of such a fish, & make a perfume with it, & he dareth not come nigh you. And this would wel haue beseemed S. Peter to set men to catch such fish, in remēbrance of his owne occupatiō, since himselfe was a fisher. But what if yong Toby had met with such a spirit, as those were of whom Christ saith, Matth. 17. 21. This kind goeth not out but by fasting and praier? The treatise called Ecclesiasticus, if for any cause it should come into the Canon, it must be for Sa­lomons sake, whom many would haue to bee the authour of it. But the Preface it selfe remaineth, confessing it to be the worke of Iesus Sirachs sonne, & of another Iesus his grande-father: and the booke mētioneth Cap: 48. & 46. Elias, Ezechias, Iosias, Ieremy & diverse other, who lived hundreds of yeeres after Salomon. And howe questionable a narration is that in it, that Cap 46. 20: Samuel should tell of Saules death after his owne burial, which as diverse learned men thinke, is a report to be beleeved in Necromācy rather thē in Di­vinity. For if the souls of the righteous being departed, be in the hād of God, which our Romanists must cōfesse out of the booke of Cap: 3. 1: Wisdome, & we do beleeue out of the saying of David Psal 31. 5. Into thine hād I cōmend my spirit, if those who die in the Lord, Apoc: 14: 13: do rest frō their labors, how shal we suppose that the soule of such an ex­cellēt Prophet as Samuel was, might be at the cōmand of so base & vile a witch, to be fetched frō heaven at her pleasure? Or what rest shal other faithfull men and women bee imagined to haue after this life, if Necromancers, VVitches and Coniurers haue such power over them? Albeit therefore that some of the aun­cient speaking according to the 1. Sam: 2 [...]: 15: letter of the texte, doe name him who appeared, Samuel, because hee came vp in the like­nesse [Page 310] of Samuel, as Epistol. 80. Basile when hee saith that the VVitch raised Samuel from the deade, and some other not sifting the pointe doe affirme it to bee the soule of Samuel himselfe, as Antiquit. 6. 15 Iosephus the lewe, and Dialog [...] Try­phon: Iustinus Martyr, yet other more exactly looking in­to it, tell vs otherwise, as S. Austen when he calleth that which appeered De doctr. Christ lib. 24 23. the image of Samuel, and especially Basile who else­where more advisedly pronounceth that Basil in [...] cap 8. they were Devils, which hissing with their voice did transforme themselues into the habite and person of Samuel. Yea Chron l 1: Genebrard himselfe maketh a great doubt whither it were Samuel or no, and citeth Tertullian and diverse other of the Auncients resolving the contrary. As for the bookes of Machabees there be many thinges in them, that no man can maintaine (& therfore no part of them is so much as reade in our Church) as that 1. Mach. 1. 7: Alexāder parted his kingdome among his ser­vants while he was alive, that the Cap 8 7. Romanes tooke the greate Antiochus aliue, that they tooke from him Cap. 8. 8. India, and Media, and Lydia, and gaue them to King Eumenes: that they had a Senate consisting of Vers. 15. three hundred and twenty men who con­sulted daily: that they yeerely committed their Vers. 16. government to one man, whom all obeied; and that there was no hatred or envy amongst them. Also it wil never bee made hang togither that Iudas should be aliue in the 2: Math 1. 10. hundred fo [...]escore & eight yeere, and yet he should be slaine in the 1 Mac 9. 3. hundred fifty and two yeere. Neither that Antiochus should 1 Mac. 6. 8: die in his bed for griefe and sorrow, and in another place should be slaine in the temple of 2. Mach: 1: 13. 16. Nanea, and there haue his head and the heads of his compa­ny cut of, and in a third Cap. 9: 28: passage should die a miserable death in a strange country among the mountaines, & that should be on­ly by the Dan 8. 25. hand of God, & without any helpe of man. Nor that 2. Mach 1. 18. Nehemias should builde the Temple & the aulter at Ierusa­lem, vvhen indeede they vvere Ezr. 313. & cap 6: 15: builte before his comming vp; nor that it is to bee founde in the vvorkes of 2. Mac: 2: 1: Ieremie the Pro­phet, that he commaunded the people who were ledde away captiue, to take fire with thē. Moreover it were worth the know­ing, how by good Divinity the fact of Razias Cap. 14: 42: murthering him­selfe may any wise be cōmended. And whether such as were the pen-mē of the holy Ghost, do vse to craue pardon of their infir­mity [Page 311] & insufficiēty, in delivering that which is to be named Ca­nonical Scripture, which the Cap: 15: 39 author of the later book of the Ma­chabees doth. Many more such blemishes are to be foūd in these tracts, which evidently shew that no doctrine of infallible verity can be grounded vpon them: but where they haue ought agree­ing with the Canonical Scriptures they may bee accepted, be­cause they consent with the other; where they haue ought disa­greeing, that same cannot be warranted because it is in these A­pocriphal to be found, but it is to be repudiated as the errour of a man, since a greater, (God himselfe who speaketh in his owne word,) doth impugne it.

4 Now for the points of doctrine which you would vrge out of these bookes, thus we say. That Angels are deputed to safegard Gods elect we doubt not; for the Psal: 34: 7: Angel of the Lord pitchethroūd a­bout thē that feare him, & delivereth thē, & those whō the 2: Reg: 6. 17: servant of Elizeus saw, do testifie so farre, neither do we so much as call it into question, but that they are Hebr. 1. 14, ministring spirites, sent & imploi­ed in messages, as the Luc, 1, 26, Angel Gabriel was to the Virgin Ma­ry, & when and where otherwise it pleaseth God. But what can our Papists collect hence? That they are to be prayed vnto, or that they are to be worshipped? We find no warrant any where for the former: & they thēselues refuse the latter. I Apoc. 19: 10, am one of thy fellow servaunts saith the Angel to Iohn, Worship God. Or can they proue that an Angell doth so sensibly, & serviceably waite on men, as this mentioned in Tobias is reported to do? And if they could, what doth it crosse any point in our religion, since al must be done by the Lords appointment, & the glory must be given vnto him? As for free-vvill in that sence which the Church of Rome doth teach it, we deny. Neither doth the text of Ecclesi­asticus Eccle. 15, 15, necessarily inforce it, being as fit to be vnderstood only of Adam in his first creation, as otherwise. And the words of this writer being soberly taken, may cary no other sence then vvhat is to be found in vndoubted bookes of Deut: 30, 19, Scripture; vvhich textes notwithstanding we deny not, but by comparing place to place give them their right exposition. VVe acknovvledge the free­dome of mās hart to do evil; as also that by the Spirit of God the will of the regenerate is freed to do good; but this is not so much [Page 312] liberum as liberatum arbitrium not so much a will free, as freed, no­thing being in the power of man himselfe, but all bestowed by God. But concerning this we shal speake more largly hereafter. The place of the 2. Mac: 12 42 [...] Machabees is too weake, to proue praier for faithfull soules lying in Purgatory to be lawfull. The text it selfe in the Originall is so perplexe, that an evident and certain sence cannot be made of the words. And who doth not see there, that they were not faithful persons, but rather grosse sinners which were slaine, and such as may bee thought to haue received a iust iudgment from God, both on body and foule, for medling with the Anathema or excommunicate thing? Iudas therfore who was a man so experienced in the law of Moses, could not be so simple as to send an offring, or to cause praiers to be made for the soules of them who were thus flaine, (especially when all offrings were prescribed in the Leviticall law, but there was none immediate­ly concerning the persons of dead men, but all for the living:) this therefore was the misse-conceite of the authour, writing therein his owne fancie, rather then the fact of Iudas. For that worthy man wel knewe, that the atonement and reconciliation was to be made, for the rest of the people and army which lived, who might smart in and for their fellowes sinne, as their fore-fa­thers had done for the Iosua. 7. 5. transgression of Achan. The offring then and praier at Hierusalem was to prevent this, and not for the soules of them who dyed in their sinne, and were not godly persons as the wordes of the Authour may seeme to import. That men should pray to Saints, I finde nothing in these treatises. On­ly somewhat there is that Mac. 15: 12 14. Onias and Ieremy did pray for the whole people of the Iewes. And what will you infer vpon these? You might vnderstand, that we deny not, that the Saints in hea­ven do pray in general for the good of the Church: but that they in particular, know our wants, heare our callings, vnderstand our wishes, that remaineth for you to proue. Besides you might per­ceiue that this was a Vision, wherein things are represented o­therwise then really they are, as it was with S. Peter, who concei­ved that a Act: 10. 11 sheete full of all cleane and vncleane beasts was let downe vnto him, which neverthelesse I trust you will not say was so indeed. So that from the words & circumstances of a Vi­sion, [Page 331] you can concludingly evince no more, then from the words and circumstances of a P [...]rable: and that is little: but from the end, vse, and scope of both, you may to good purpose collect somewhat. And yet farther without impiety it may be doubted whither the Generall here did not vse a tricke of war, which A­lexander and other Graund leaders haue experimented, that is to incourage men by a dreame artificially fained and reported, the benefit whereof in worldlye mens iudgement is such, that Ca: 20: 146 Leo Imperator in his military precepts hath this for one, Thou shalt cause in thy souldiours alacrity to the battaile, if on the day of fighte thou rising in the morning, shalt say that some dreame was sent vnto thee from God, which doth incite thee to invade thine enemies, and sheweth thee some kinde of helpe to fight. Then if you had your will touching the authority of these controversed books, you could not make one quarter of the gaine by them as you suppose, but since they are not of the right stampe, we may not allow thē to you. Be the matter in thē for vs or agaīst vs, we may not authorize those for Authentike Scripture, which God hath not so authorized. In the 2. of the Machabees there is a place against Limbus Patrū, where one of the seven brethren saith, Cap 7: 36 My brethren that haue suffered a little paine, are now vnder the divine covenant of everlasting life, that is to say, at that very time inioying it, and in possession of it, for if it be vnderstood but of the way thither, the mother and bro­ther yet remaining aliue, were also vnder that covenant of assu­red hope: but we account not of this testimony, neither do wee vrge it, because the booke whence it is taken, is Apocryphal.

FOr Heretikes ever framed the Bible to their opinions, changing, wre­sting, paring, and somtimes flatly reiecting al which made over-plain­ly against such Doctrine as they devised, and so doe most impudently the Protestants now. Wheras the Catholikes ever squared their Doctrine by the line and the levell of the Word of her Spouse, and therefore never had cause to reiect the least iote of the holy Bible, and at one worde the Catho­likes followe the Bible, but the Protestantes force the Bible to followe them.

5 WHat heretiks do to the Bible, or how they intreat it, we respect not, neither doth it make ought against vs, til you haue first proved vs to be heretiks. Nay look you well to it, whither you do not seclude vs from being heretiks; since we do not change, wrest, & pare the Bible. We allow al Scripture to be Scripture, we wrēch nothing, we alter nothing, but avow that our collections and interpretations, are consonant to other pla­ces of Gods sacred word, and in all points material are to be war­ranted out of some, or many of the ancient fathers of the Primi­tiue Church, which when any of you shall iumpe vpon, we never refuse to put in trial with you. Now that you Pseudo-Catholiks do that indeed, wherwith you wrongfully charge vs, how can you deny, when you admit for Cōc: Tri­den▪ Sess: 4 [...] authenticall no copy nor tran­slation of the Scripture, but the vulgar Latin, which hath diverse flawes and gaps in it, much being missing which is in the Origi­nall Hebrew & Greek? When almost in al your Vaux Ca­techi. Horae beatissim. Virginis. Catechismes & other books you leaue out the second Cōmandement touching Images, as too plainly cōvincing your idolatrous carved & pain­ted stuffe in Churches. So whē in the Eucharist you take the Cup frō the Cōc: Con­stat. Sess 13 people, cōtrary to Christs institution, & the relation of the forme of that Sacrament by S. Paule, expoūding Mat: 26. 27 Drinke you all of this, to be meant of the Clergy only, how do you wrest and pare? As when you say, that your Masse is a dayly reall sacrifice, wheras the Heb: 7: 27: cap: 10: 18▪ Author to the Hebrews so copiously disputeth, that there is no more sacrifice for fin. Briefly you do little better then take away all the Bookes of the Bible, when for so many yeares togither you willingly suffred not the laity to looke into them: And how do you pervert the Scripture to confirme that abuse, as when In Apolog. Staphilus directly applyeth to that purpose the text, Mat: 7: 6: Giue not that which is holy vnto dogs, so accounting the laity to be no better then dogges and swine. Yea your great Rabbins, Peter Lib: 3: Distinct: 25 Lombard the Master of the Sentences, & Thomas of Aquin: 2. Aquine can finde so much in that place of Iob, [...]: art: 6. The Oxen were plovving, and the Asses were feeding in their places, taking the oxen plovving to signifie the Priests reading the Scripture, & the Asses feeding Iob▪ 1. 14. [Page 315] to be the people not troubling their heads with such matters; but contenting themselues to beleeue in grosse, as the Church and Cleargy do beleeue, Are not these sweet men, & do they not frō dogs & swine, & Oxen & Asses, proue their matters handsome­ly? Thus you square your doctrine by the level of the Babilonish harlot, & no otherwise: folowing the Bible verily as many in Lō ­don do follow the Law, when they go to Westminster after the Iudges who know much law, but their followers study & vnder­stand little of it. So you sometimes let the Bible stand in your Li­braries or studies before you, but you look little in it, & take ve­ry small acquaintance of it; & when any thing commeth to bee questioned, you had leifer be tryed by any thing then that, and for traditions you wil striue as for your soule, knowing they must do the deed in vpholding your Popery, or els al wil to the groūd; for in the Scripture it hath no footing. But we contrarywise doe teach our people to cary with them Gods booke, to read it and meditate on it, to try our teachīgs therby, & not to force the ex­position thereof to their own humour, but to the purpose of the holy Ghost. And so I leaue you, and this your slaunder.

6 Here to proceed a litle farther in the matter of this Mo­tiue; we are charged (as the Reader doth see) to offer iniury to the scriptures, in denying those to be Cano­nicall whō the Romanists do grace with that name. But what is our fault? Is it that we do not allow all that to bee of vndoubted authority, which is within the cōmon volumes of the Bible? Yea that is it, as M. Bristow & his fellows belike wold say. We answer that if this be it, the Church of Rome it selfe is gilty of that crime. For are there not 2. books which are cōmonly called the 3. & 4. of Esdras, which thēselues evermore cōprise within their Bibles, & yet repute not Canonical? No better triall of this then by the Session▪ 4 [...] Councell of Trent, which reckoning vp the sacred. Volumes doeth with those vvhich are not controversed, yea with those which are past controversie, ioyne Tobias, [...]dith, Wisdome, Ec­clesiasticus and the two books of the Machabees, but of these of Esdras not a word. Heere then by the iudgement of that renou­med Synode, (which curleth as many as ioine not with it) some tractes in the Bible are now as good as leaped out of the Bible. [Page 316] This fact of theirs wil warrāt our proceedings; since by the same reason wherefore they seclude some, may more bee shut out, if they do deserue it. Gentle Genebrard saw this wel, and therfore he was desirous, although it were but by the head & shoulders, to haue pulled in these two bookes againe. Lib. 2: Chron: An. 3638. & postea: He therefore more then once is vehement for them, & would make vs belieue, that although in the first Synode which long since did canonize the bookes of holy writte, they were not admitted, yet in a later Sy­node the Canon was made larger. And reasons for this he ma­keth shew to giue. But it is too late Genebrard; you come after the faire. The Councel which cannot erre hath shut them out of dores: the Pope hath ratified their Decree, & therfore you lose your labour; and you are but one man against so many Fathers; therfore best pul in your hornes. For as with your owne side you are like to gaine nothing, so otherwise you wil pul an olde house on your head, whē by your example you teach vs, that a private man may question, yea conclude against that which your Coun­sels haue determined. Where by the way, let not the simple and vnlearned Christian wonder, that in this best booke the Bible, there should be any thing which is not properly a member of it; for we therin as also in reading some part of them publikely, doe but imitate the custome of the most auncient & purest Zanch. in Observat: in cap. 1 [...] Confessiō: Chur­ches, ioyning that with Gods most sacred word, which vniver­sally hath bin ioyned among Christians, since almost the eldest times, and is not refused by the most reformed Churches at this day; but we distinguish these writings from the divine volumes, and note them by the name or appellation of Apocripha, as hid­den in comparison of the bright light of the other, which may wel endure the light and sunne-shine. And by a little Preface before those doubted bookes as also by the Articles of Religion agreed on in Cōvocation, An. 1562. we teach what opinion the Church hath of them; that they are not received to be publikely expoū ­ded, nor to confirme matters of doctrine, but only as they cōsent with the other which are Canonical; or onely as the writings of some godly men, which may serue to giue light to the history, or containe some not vnprofitable instructiōs touching good man­ners. And these things in our Sermōs & writings we do fequētly [Page 317] notify. So that this indifferent course being held, there is no iust cause of offence givē either to the weake beleever, or to the ma­litious & clamorous adversory; that being done which anciently in the best Christian Churches was done, and yet the people be taught but howe and in what sence it is done. Nay, our Church hath beene so carefull for giving any vvay iust occasion of scan­dale in this matter, that it permitteth the Minister to reade in steede of any of these Apocriphal Chapters, other Canonicall lessons vpon the Sun-daies and Holy-daies, and therefore much more vpon the working-daies, as hee in his wisedome & iudge­ment shal see fit, requiring of him prudence & discretion in that behalfe. Which appeareth in the Second Tome of Homilies, set out by publike An. 1563. authority almost in the beginning of her late Maie­sties raigne. For there in the An admo­nition to al Ministers Ecclesiasti­call. Preface this advertisement being given, to all Ministers, For that the LORD doth require of his servant whom bee hath set over his housholde, to shevve both faithfulnes and prudence in his office &c. some thinges are advised vnto him touching his duty, but lastly this is subnected and subioyned, And vvhere it may so chaunce some one or other Chapter of the olde Testament to fall in order to bee reade vpon the Sundaies or Holy-daies, vvhich vvere better to bee chaunged vvith some other of the New Te­stament, of more edification, it shall bee vvell done to spende your time to consider vvell of such Chapters before hand, vvhereby your prudence and diligence in your office may appeere, so that your people may haue cause to glorifie GOD for you, and bee the readier to embrace your labours, to your better commendation, to the discharge of your consciences and their owne. Which pointe being well considered, avoideth all blame from the Church of England, even in the eyes of them that would seeme most quicke-sighted, it being not onely per­mitted to the Minister, but also commended in him, if vvisely and quietly hee doe reade Canonicall Scripture vvhere the A­pocryphal vppon good iudgement seemeth not so fitte, or any Chapter of the Canonicall may bee conceived not to haue in it so much edification before the simple, as some other parte of the same Canonical may be thought to haue. For the wordes wil ve­ry well cary both these.

7 VVell then, if there bee reasons why the Church of Rome [Page 318] doth shut out from the Canon these bookes of Esdras, and yet they are printed and bound vp with all their ordinary Bibles, if the same or such like exceptions may bee taken, against Iudith, Tobias, and the rest, is there not as great reason that they also should be secluded from the Canonicall, albeit they remaine in the volume of the Bible? The exceptions against all these con­troversed writings are many, but I will reduce them briefly to these three plaine heads, which I meane to touch. First the mat­ter of the bookes of Esdras is slight and vaine, without maiestie, and vnworthy the holy and sacred spirit of God. Secondly these tracts are not to be founde in the Canon of the old, that is, the Iewish Church. And thirdly in the computation of Christians they are also reiected. If we lay these lines and rules to the rest, we shall finde them of very little different quality. For first the matter of them is not coherent with the rest of the vndoubted scripture. In Cap: 5. 12 Tobias, the Angell vtteteth somewhat of himselfe, which cannot literally be avoided: when he saith to old Tobias, I am of the kinredos Azarias, and Ananias the great, and of thy bre­thren. So, it is a narration worthy at the least to be pawsed vpon, that the Cap: 6: 13: seven husbands of Sara should be killed by an evil spi­rit, the first night of their mariage. Of the hart and liver of the fish I haue spoken before? Is it not a likely matter that Cap: 8. 9 [...] Raguel would make a graue for him, whom the day before hee so advi­sedly tooke for his sonne in law, now to bury him before hee was dead? They are not matters to bee commended by the penne of the holy Ghost, that Iudith should Iud: 10: 3: 4 dresse and tricke her selfe more then became a matrone, that so she might allure Holofer­nes to wantonnesse; that shee Cap. 12: 12 14: 18: c: 13: 1 should make shew as not to de­ny to lie with him: that shee should tell such evident Ca. 10. 12. 13 vntruthes to his servants at her first taking, and to Ca: 11: 15: 16 himselfe afterward. That the Iewes should haue peace so long in her life Ca. 16. 25. time, and a great while after her death is a matter vnprobable, since these warres of Holofernes, are saide to be made in the time of King Cap. 2. 1. Nabu­chodonosor, and while the first temple or Ca: 16: 20 Sanctuary stood. Nay the consultation concerning this warre, is reported to be in the Cap. 2: 1 [...] eighteenth yeare of Nabuchodonosor, & we finde in the book of the [...]: King: 25 [...]: Kings, that in the nineteenth yeare of his raigne, the [Page 319] same king sent Nabuzaradan his steward to Hierusalem, vvho burnt the house of the Lorde, the Kinges house and all other of worth in the citty. Adde to this, that whereas the writers of the bookes of Kings and Chronicles, are most exacte in setting downe all great warres, and victories of the Iewes, from the time of Saul to the ruinating of the first temple, there is not one word of any person or circumstance belonging to this warre in them, nor in any other vndoubted booke of holy writ. Yea Iosephus who was a Iew, and with much learning and labour continueth the story of his countreymen, from Adam to his own daies, hath not the least mention of this Iudith, or ought appertaining to her, which he being so desirous to cōceale nothing, which might make for the honour of his people, would never in such deepe oblivion haue buryed. These things may well be questioned.

8 The book of Wisdome is by some of the Popish Synagoge, not only accounted to be Canonicall Scripture, but also reputed to be Sixt. sent: Bibli. lib: 1. & 8: Salomons, if not for the compiling, yet at least for the mat­ter. And the reason therof is yeelded, because there is in it a prai­er in the Sap. 9. 1. name of Salomon. But Vide Sixt. Senens. vbi supra Bellar de verbo Dei li. 1. 13 learned men of our parte, ra­ther hold it to be the worke of Philo the Iew, (which also Bel­larmine citeth out of S. Hierome) and that not the elder Philo, but even the same who with some other of his countrymen, was sent in embassage to the Philo de legat. ad caium: Emperour Caligula, to intreate him that the Iewes might not be forced to accept of, and to erect his image or statue at Hierusalem, which they held to be contrary to the law of their Moses. He therefore compiled that worke insi­nuating to Kings and great men moderation in their governe­ment, terrour of torments after this life, and the extreme vanity of Idols, matters most fit for their present purpose to Caligula; & to giue never the lesse credit to all his words, he was contented that Salomons name should be vsed in the praier before mentio­ned, because the name of wise king Salomon was famous over al the world. And that for this purpose, [...]the booke of Wisdom was made, the whole drift of it may very well purport. Now if there were nothing els in this treatise to check it selfe, yet that bloudy Sap 4. 3 [...] sentence and censure against all borne in bastardy, woulde be­wray that it was written with an humane spirite, and not by di­vine [Page 320] authority. For although God be pleased sometimes to lay a temporal punishment vpon men so borne (as he also doth on o­ther persons) yet he, who, (so that we serue him and feare him) hath professed of himselfe to be no Act: 10, 34 respecter of persons; he who blessed Phares being in fornication begotten vpon Gen: 38, 18 29. Th [...]ar, so that our Saviour Christs petigree according to the flesh, is Matth. 1, 3 deri­ved from him; he who forgiveth the parents committing adulte­ry or fornication, so that they doe repent, which was 2, Sam: 12 13: Davids case, adding to his adultery, murther also; he wil much more par­don the child that is innocent in that behalfe, and not accessary to the crime of his nocent parents, and will not lay that fearefull iudgement vpon him, that neither he nor any who descend frō him shall long prosper. The examples are manifolde, how God hath powred various temporall blessings on the issue of such as haue beene borne in fornication, as we need look no farther then to William the Conquerour, tightly termed Haillan Histo: lib: 6: Guillaume le Bastard which notwithstanding ought to incourage none to cōmit that fleshly sinne, but rather they are to feare and tremble at it, since God may iustly destroy both the bodies and soules of such offen ders. But this I haue spoken to shew, that the saying of that au­thour cannot be iustified in Divinity; neither may any man goe about to advouch it, since albeit all hope well, yet few are assu­red that all things are right in their owne birth. Nay Papists thē ­selues among whom be pretty store of bastards, as wel as among other men, saw this well enough, which caused their Hugo car­dinal. Lyra Glo. interl: & ordinar. D [...]oni Car thusian: Commen­tatours vpon that place, to flie the literall sence, and to interpret it of bastards spiritually meant, that is heretikes and such like. Of the bookes of Ecclesiasticus and the Machabees I haue spoken before, and therefore say no more of them but this, that S. Au­sten who thought reasonably well of the bookes of the Macha­bees, yet coulde not tell how to iustifie the 2. Mach: 14. 42: commendation of Razias killing himselfe, and therfore is shrewdly Aug. epist 61. plunged how to salue all, by allowing the book and disallowing the fact. Since then the matter of these volumes hath such imperfections in it, that it cannot keepe coherence with the vn-questioned Ora­cles of the sacred Scripture, and the Spirit of the Almighty is e­ver vniforme, & never dissenting from it selfe, if the other books [Page 321] do stand, as not a Mat: 5. 18: title of them shall perish vnto the worlds end, these then must needs fal from that high credit to which Papists would bring them, and we are not to blame, when we acknow­ledge not them for divine, who haue no such slampe vpon them.

9 Secondly we referre our selues to the iudgment, of the lew­ish Church before Christ, vvhose the Scriptures then vvere, and to whom were commended the Rom. 3: 2: Oracles of God. Among them Luk: 24: 27 44: Moses and the Prophets and the Psalmes, by a generall name comprised all▪ Scripture, but otherwise for order and memorie sake, they reduced al their books to the two Sixt▪ Sen: Bibli: lib: 1: and twenty letters of the Hebrew Alphabet, and as in them they comprehended al & every particle, which they and we do receiue, so they shut out also from thence, al which they & we now do expunge. No bet­ter witnes of this, thē that learned Iosephus who ex Contr: A­pion. lib. 1▪ professo hād­leth this, & sheweth the dignity & prerogatiue of the divine in­spired writings, aboue all other, the credit of whom he holdeth doubtful & vnsure. Now in the nūber of those of sacred authori­ty, he hath neither Tobias, nor Iudith, nor any one of their com­panions. Spec. Aug S. Austen doth witnes, that the Iewes do not accepte Ecclesiasticus & Wisdome into their Canon; & else where more thē De [...]civita: D [...]il: 18. 36. cont [...] epist: Gauden: l. 2 once, he cōfesseth that they also seclude the books of the Ma chabees. In Synop. Athanasius also acknewledgeth, that the books of the old Testamēt are but 22. answering to the 22. Hebrew letters, & so saith Epiphanius in his treatise, De mensuris & ponderibus, & Hi­lary in his Prologe on the Psalmes hath the same. Where it is to bee observed, that the Iewish reckoning of these 22. bookes, is some what different from that ordinary enumeration which we doe vse, for they diverse times comprehende two bookes vnder one; but yet so it is exactly, that vvhatsoever vve containe with­in the compasse of the Canon, they receaue the same, and vvhat vvee doe reiecte they also refuse. And that there is such a secluding of some bookes by the Ievves, Thomas Part: [...] qu▪ 89, art: 8: A­quinas maye bee a vvitnesse, vvho maketh doubte vvhither Ecclesiasticus bee of authority or no, saying, The booke of Ecclesia­sticus, if it haue authority, because among the Hebrews it is not received in the divine writing [...]. So that if vvee follovve the Church [Page 322] before Christ, vnto whome most properly the Olde Testament did belong, we must repute them as now we do Apocryphal, & hold their credit to be suspect. Neither may this bee helped, by saying that there was some later Synode vvhich made a larger Canon among the lewes, [...]s Chronog. lib. 2. Genebrard would say, if hee could tell what hee saide, for that is a fable of his owne inventing, & di­rectly crossing the Councel of Trent, as formerly I haue shevv­ed.

10 Thirdly among the Christians there is much more against these writings thē there is for thē. I wil briefely cite what I finde amōg some of the Ancient, which may seeme to helpe thē, Lib. 3. Epist 9. ad [...]. Cy­prian citeth somewhat out of Ecclesiasticus vnder the name of Salomon. Truth: but it is for the likenes of the sentences there, to those in the Proverbes, which also hath caused some other to take it for Salomons, not looking exactly into the impossibility of the matter. This therfore is but weake. Lib. 2. de princip [...]js. Origē bringeth some­what out of the story of the Machabees. Wel: but so he doth also in the same place ou: of the Liber Pastoris, which neverthelesse no wise Papist wil say to be Canonical. Yet else-where he Lib: 10. c. 16 ad Rom. saith of that Hermes or Pastor, that it seemed to him a very profitable booke, and as he thinketh inspired from God. No man therfore wil attribute much to Origens iudgement in that behalfe. Stromat [...] Cle­mens Alexandrinus doth cite the story of Tobias. But even so doth he mētiō the Gospel secundū Aegypties; but he nameth nei­ther the one nor the other Canonical. Yea but De Tobia cap 1. Ambrose writīg vpō Tobias, nameth that a Prophetical book: So he doth indeed, & that is of more force thē any yet mētioned. But his iudgmēt in this is not to be warranted, since De bono mortis c. 11. else-where he citeth the fourth of Esdras as true Scripture. And we are not ignorant that his skil was little or nothing in the Hebrew, wherby he might best haue beene acquainted with the customes of the lewes. In S. Austen I finde little concerning Tobias and Iudith; onely in the enu­meration De doctr. Christ. l: 2: 8 of the Canonical Scripture; he citeth them once, and there he hath the bookes of the M [...]chabees, as also VVisedome and Ecclesiasticus, which for a likely-hood to the bookes of Sa­lomons, are called as Salomons. So Ser [...]: 131▪ de Tēpore. else-where according to the co [...]on custome neere him, he tearmeth Ecclesiasticus [Page 323] Salomons booke. But deliberately he doth explicate that point, where he saith De civit. Dei. la 7: 20. Custome hath obtained, that Wisedome & Ecclesiasti­cus should be said to be Salomons for some no small likenesse of the speech. But the more learned doe not doubt, that they are not his; notwithstāding the Church especially that of the West, hath long agone received them in­to authority in the one of whom which is called the Wisdome of Salomon, the passion of Christ is most openly prophecied. It was written after the passion of Christ, even in the daies of Caligula, if Philo were the author of it. Thē it is cleere by S. Austen that they were not Sa­lomons work [...], but yet he would haue thē to be Canonical. And that he hath also in another place, Speculum Augustini. The Church of our Saviour doth receive them, yet the words of him immediately before are, The Iewes doe reiect from the Canon the booke of Wisedome and Ecclesi­asticus. Thē by the cōfession of this renoumed mā, the Iewes did repudiat thē. Yea & that he acknowledgeth els-where: De curo pro mort. gerend. c: 15. The book of Ecclesiast. is spokē against out of the Canō of the Hebrews, because it is not in that. And in his Lib. 2: c. 20 Retractatiōs, The Iews doe not receive the booke of Wisedome into Canonicall authority. Were it not then to be wished heere, that S. Austē had remēbred his own rule, which is, De doctr. Chr. l. 2. 8. that such bookes principally should bee esteemed Canonicall, which are so accepted of al churches; but of such as are in doubt, that they are most to be approved whom most Churches do al­low. Then if the Iewish Church refused these, and the Easterne Church wholy among the Christians, & great ones also in the Westerne provinces, vpon whom he seemeth principally to rely, S. Austen by his owne sentence is much opp [...]gned and refuted. And of these in the East & West Church you shall heare anone.

11 Touching the bookes of the Machabees, as it is said before that S. Austen reckoned thē among the Canonical volumes, so De morib. Cath Eccl: cap. 23. elsewhere he calleth the secōd of them Scripture. In his bookes Lib. [...]8. 36. Decivitate Dei, he expoundeth it to be so among Christiās, not in the lewish Synagogue Not the Iews, but the Church doth account the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical, by reason of the vehemēt & wōderful suffring of some Martyrs. And yet the same father in ano­ther place speaketh mu [...]h more coldly & faintly for thē, Contra secū [...]. Gau­dent, Epist▪ lib. 2. For the Scripture which is called the Machabees, the Iews do not accoūt as the Law, the Prophets, & the Psalmes, to whō the Lord doth give testimony [Page 324] as to his witnesses, saying, It must needes bee that all thinges are fulfilled, which are written concerning me in the Law & in the Prophets & in the Psalmes but it is received of the Church not vnprofitably, if it soberly be read [...]r beard. This even by his owne extenuation carieth but smal comfort with it. But there is a worke vnder the name of S. Austen intituled Lib: 2: 34: De mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae, where by the Authour the book of Machabees is secluded from the Canon. Notwithstā ­ding we do not vrge th [...]t to be his, but take it for a counterfeit, & rather yeeld that S. Austen framing his iudgment to some others opinion in the Westerne Church, did repute these also Canoni­call. Yet here that is to be remembred, which briefly before I tou­ched concerning S. Ambrose, that this mistaking in this worthy Father grew, by his want of knowledge in that tongue, wherein the old Testa, was originally writtē: by which means he was not acquat̄ed with many things appertaining to the Iewish church; vnto whō since al Scripture before Christs time was cōmitted, if these had bin Scripture, they also should haue bin cōmended, & then they should haue bin written in the tongue which they vn­derstood, that is to say in the Hebrew, & not in the Greek, which was a lāguage of the Gētiles: & as Aut l: 30. 9 Iosephus testifieth, the Iews did not accōmodate thēselues to the learning of any tongue but their own, which is to be interpreted of the ordinary sort of thē. But all these controversed writings are only in the Greeke▪ and not in the Hebrew, which is a maine argument against them, and ruinateth the very foundation of them. Now that S. Austē knew nothing of the Hebrew, he in his own [...]pist. 131. modesty most ingenuous­ly confesseth, as also in another place he acknowledgeth that he had but little skil in the Greeke, I Cont. liter. Petilian▪ DO nat. lib. [...]: truely haue attained vnto very little of the Greeke tongue, and almost nothing. And this made the iudgment of S. Austen the more defectiue in that behalfe. Now as this great Doctour might bee overtaken, partly by his igno­rance of the Hebrew, and many circumstances belonging to the Iews, & partly by leaning to the opinion of some other neere a­bout him in the Westerne Churches of Italy & Afrike, so it is a matter very probable, that the Cōc. cart. 3. can 471 Coūcel of Carthage induced by the same reasons, and most of all by the authority of S. Austen, mighte exorbitate in their Censure, vvhen they put all these [Page 325] Apocriphal bookes among the writing [...] Canonical. For there as­sembled none but such Prelates as were about Carthage, which standeth toward the West of Africa, in comparison of the East Churches. The same causes doubtlesse moved Decret▪ In­noc [...]n Cō ­c [...]js. Innocentius the Bishop of Rome, and therefore of the Westerne Church, to put all these books into the Canon, Tobias excepted of whō he saith nothing. An errour once begon, goeth plentifully forward, & is not stayed vpon the suddaine. Whēce it was that Gelas. Epist. in Concilijs. Gelasius cō ming after Innocētius, did in this case treade the steps of his Pre­decessor, whē himselfe togither with sevēty Bishops, doth define al these writings to be sacred Scripture. Notwithstāding he who wil looke the Decree of Gelasius, as Part 1 Dist. 15. 4: Gratian citeth it about this matter, shal see that the iudgmēt of Gelasius cōcerning the Ca­nō is very weake, & little to be regarded. And in those decrees of his which are found amōg the Coūcels the same wil appeere, whē he maketh meaner things thē these cōtroversed books to be of ir­refragable authority. For in the very next Decree to that which I formerly mentioned, he saith thus touching an Epistle of Leo one of his Antecessors in the Roman see, The text of the Epistle of Pope Leo, if any mā shal dispute of evē to one iote, & shal not revere [...]ly re­ceive it in all things, let him be accursed. This heate doth shew, that Gelasius was not too too much advised in his determinations of this nature, but followed the tract of those that wēt before him, without farther ventilating or disquisitiō. And this is the most of that which by mine own reading, I find in Antiquity making for the iustification of these Apocryphal bookes. And some such shewes there be for the story of Susanna, & of Bel with the Dra­gon, which also are not in the Hebrew, & therfore togither with the fragmēts of the booke of Esther, & some other of equal sort, are by vs held to be no Scripture. Hee who would behould what farther may be saide for these things, let him looke De verb [...] Dci. lib. 1. Cardinall Bellarmine where he shal finde a many weake citatiōs, agreeing in substance with those whom before I haue named. Now if we looke what is against them, we shal easily discover testimony of greater ponderosity to overturne them, then is any to support & vphold them.

12 VVhat the Iewes did or doe esteeme of them, you haue [Page 326] heard before. Onely take this with you, that [...] l. c. 10. Bellarmine can say out of S. [...]n Prolog. gel [...]at: Hierome, that all these bookes togither are reiected by the Hebrewes. Now let vs see, what witnes the Easterne Church giveth of them. Eccl. Hist. lib▪ 4: 2 [...]: Eusebius hath an Epistle of Melito sometimes Bishop of Sardis in Asia the lesser, where Melito himselfe saith, that of purpose he travelled to Hierusalem & into Palestina, to know what were the Canonical Scriptures of the Church before Christ: and there he setteth downe all those bookes which wee admit, & none other. This was very soone after the age wherin the Apostles lived. It is heere to be marked concerning this holy man, as also of al the rest whom I shall name, that they never had in this businesse reference to ought, but to the course of the Iewes, accepting their iudgement for the bookes of the olde Testament to be that, wherevnto Christians also should cleaue. Not long after that time came Clemens Alexandrinus, of whom Lib. 6: 11: Eusebius writing saith that hee cited the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus in his vvorkes, vvhich bookes saith Eusebius, all men do not receiue. And he addeth, as it may seeme to pre­vent, least any man vpon his example should attribute much to those two, that he cited also the Epistle of Barnabas & of Cle­ment. By the iudgement then of Eusebius, Wisedome & Eccle­siasticus at the least are books cōtroversed. Soone after came Cap: 19: O­rigē who lived at Alexādria in Aegypt. And he reckoneth vp the Canō of the Iews cōprised in two & twēty volūes, accepting all that which we accept, & not naming the other, saving the Ma­chabees, which he saith to be reiected of the Iews. That worke of Origē wherin that was cōtained is now lost, & yet in those which remain, he saith that the book of Wisdome, De princi­pij [...]. lib 4. 3 [...] is not accoūted of au­thority with al. Athanatius after his time lived also at Alexandria, & he sheweth what was held for Canonical, & what was refused. In Synopsi. There be Canonicall of the old Testament two and twenty bookes, equal in nūber to the Hebrew letters. For among the Hebrewes the elemēts of the letters are so many. But besides these there be yet of the same old Te­stamēt other books not Canonical, which are read only to the Catechume­us. Heere is a most manifest distinction betweene the Canonical and the Apocryphall, and a signification that these inferiour volumes were only read, to such as were novices in the faith, but [Page 327] they were not accounted authentical & vnquestionable. Next I ioyne Epiphanius who lived in Cyprus, & he Haetes 8: rehearseth for Canonical Scriptures of the old Testament the Iewes bookes, & the other not admitted by them he expungeth for Apocryphal. And in a Haeres: 76: second place, reckoning vp al the divine writings, he shutteth out these Apocryphal fellows, only after al the volumes of the old & new Testamēt rehearsed, he nameth also the Wise­doms of Salomō & of the sonne of Sirach. He nameth thē I say, but after al the right ones; & yet least any man should take advā ­tage of the mencioning of those two, heare him else-where, De men­suris & pō ­deribus: A­mong the Hebrews there are two and twenty bookes. For th [...]se two bookes written in verse, The Wisedome of Salomon which is called Panaretus, of all kinde of vertue, and the Wisedome of Iesus the sonne of Syrach, & the nephew of that Iesus vvho wrote that Wisedome in Hebrew, so that his nephew interpreting it did vvrite it in Greeke, are profitable and com­m [...]dious, but are not put into the number of those vvhich are received. How corruptly thē doth De verbo Dei. l. 1: 14: Bellarmine deale, who citeth Epipha­nius as an allower of these two bookes, and denieth that hee spake against them, otherwise then according to the opinion & iudgement of the Iewes. But infinite such base shiftes are to bee found in that Cardinall. In the meane time we see, that thus Epi­phanius who was very wel skilled in the Hebrew, keepeth close both with the Iewish Canon, and the iudgement of the Easterne Church.

13 Gregory Nazianzen hath a De veris li­bris Scrip­tur▪ little treatise in verse, of pur­pose made to shew what are the books of the old & new Testa­mēt inspired frō God. He in the old reckoneth vp two & twenty books, after the Iewish fashiō so oft aboue mētioned, & no more. There he putteth al these whō we acknowledge, & vouchsafeth not so much as to name Tobias or Iudith, or any one of those whō we seclude. And so doth he againe De recta educatione ad Selencum. To all these so famous & learned men of the East & Greeke Church, wil I adde for the conclusion, the Councel of Laodicea, which in the last Canon. 59 Canon recapitulateth all the Canonicall bookes of the old Te­stament, but hath not one of those whom the Romanists vvould gladly thrust vpon vs. Nowe is it not a greate sinne thinke you, for vs to ioyne in iudgement vvith so many learned and holie [Page 328] men, with all the good and religious Hebrews, who were before the time of Christ, withal the Eastern Church without impeach­ment, for ought that I can truely find? Are not we worthy to be reviled and revelled at, as renters, tearers and clippers of the sa­cred Bible? I doe marvaile why we should be Heretikes for not admitting of these Apocryphals, since so many Fathers and re­verend Doctors of the Primitiue Church, did the same that wee do, and yet heretiks they are none. Yea but the Romanists doe loue to be tried by themselues. And great reason, The Westerne Churches, they will say, haue ever beene of another minde. Wel yet here is but one against two, and then by S. Austens rule be­fore named, the matter should go on our side. But what if we find in the Latin Church, as much against it, as for it? Are not our po­pish people in a prety case, for railing vpon vs as if we were man­glers & de [...]ūcatours of the Bible? Hilary was a Bishop of Frāce, and Prolog su per [...]. he saith that there bee two and twenty bookes of the olde scripture. See his own opinion consonant with that of the Gree­kish and Iewish Church, vnto which number saith hee some doe adde Tobias and Iudith, and so make foure and twenty. Marke that they be but some who do adde more: and these doe adde but two, so that the Machabees and the rest are vndoubtedly gone in his iudgement, nay I may say in his minde these two also. But if any man be in this cause to be heard it is Hierome, whom Lodovicus Vives some-where did truely call miraculum orbis, the miracle of the worlde. Hee lived a good while at Rome, and thought highly of that Church, and therefore would not hastily break from any thing, vvhich generally, or vvith good ground was there received. Hee travailed into Palestina, and there spent much of his time, and by longe conference vvith a Ievve, and other his extreame labour, attained to the exact knovveledge of the Hebrevve tongue, and there-vpon as some thinke tran­slated the vvhole Bible into Latin, as others suppose reformed and castigated that version, vvhich is called the Vulgar; and is now only currant among the Papists. Also hee made those learned Commentaries on the Prophets, which labour may tru­ly be said to be the glory and beauty of all his vvorkes, vvhich yet otherwise are renoumed sufficiently. Then if any man bee [Page 329] to be heard in this Argument, it is this Hierome, and that deser­vedly. Hee then speaking of Iudith, bestovveth this ierke on it, Epist 10: UUee doe reade in Iudith, notvvithstanding of it please any man to receiue that booke. But aftervvarde hee goeth more generally to vvorke, and Epist: [...]06. sheweth which are the Canonicall bookes, e­ven those whome vvee holde for Canonicall; and vvhich are Apocryphall, even the very same that wee reckon for Apocry­phall. Neither hath hee yet done, but continuing in the same iudgement, he sheweth how and in what manner, the Church readeth and accepteth those inferiour bookes, Epist: 115. As therefore the Church indeed doth read the bookes of Iudith, of Tobias and the Macha­bees, but doth not receiue them among the Canonical scriptures, so it may read also these two volumes, that is Ecclesiasticus and the booke of Wisdome, to the edification of the people, not to confirme the authority of Ecclesiasticall doctrines. What would he haue said thinke you, if he had seene our Papists bring these bookes, as the chiefe pillers of praier for the dead, and intercession of Saints, and other such like Apocryphal trumpery.

14 And that there were more learned men of the Westerne Church, in the same minde with Hierome, wee appeale to that treatise on the Creede of the Apostles, vvhich some suppose to haue beene written by Cyprian, and for that cause it is found a­mong his workes, but more generally it is thought to be of Ruf­fiuus his doing, who very well might speake for the evidency of truth, but is not to be imagined to say any thing in favour of Hi­erome, with whom he had hote & great [...]nvect cō ­tra Hieron. controversies. He there then enumerateth the volumes of Canonicall Scripture, even in the same order as we do, but disclaimeth Tobias, Iudith, & their fellows, & then subioyneth this, [...]e symb. Apostolor. These are they whom the Fathers haue concluded within the Canon, out of which they would haue the asser­tions of our faith to appeare. The rest they would haue indeed to bee reade in the Churches, yet not to bee produced to get from them the authoritie of faith. And then, These things haue wee said, that th [...]se vvho doe re­ceiue the first elementes of faith, may know from vvhat fountaines of the word of God, their draughtes are to bee dravvne. So that in these you see the sound & substantial iudgment of the most learned in the West Church, evē in the most ancient daies of it, & this hath bin [Page 330] cōtinued ever since, vntil our time, by mē of the greatest know­ledge throughout all ages yea such as were lights in the Church of Rome it selfe. Nay Greg epi: ad Leandr. & sup. Iob: 5 Gregory himselfe within 600. yeares after Christ, accepted of Hieromes translatiō or Castigation, vsing no other, but sticking so close therevnto, that as a learned man of D Fulk: in pref [...] Rhem Testam. 29. Greg in E­vang. Hom. 34. ours hath observed, it being falsly in that copy Domū evertit for domū everrit, he interpreted it after the erroneous putting. And since that time, in the Romane Churches that edition is [...]urrant, where according to In prolog Galeato. Hieromes distinction, there be no more to be found Canonical, then those whom we so read. I might adde the testimonies of Prolog: in lib: Ios: & Tobiae: Hugo, & of In vltim▪ [...]sth & epist ad Clem: y. Caretane after him, both men of much learning & both Cardinals of the See of Rome; as also of the Ordinary Glosse [...], who in the beginning of those bookes hath thus, Here beginneth the booke of Tobias, which is not of the Canō, & Here beginneth the booke of Iudith which is not of the Canon, and so of the rest. Also of De tradē ▪ dis discipl▪ [...]: Vives who secludeth Tobias, Iudith, & some other. In breefe I can here alleadge the witnes of many rare and worthy men, even of the Popish writers, and such as lived long before Luthers daies, but I reserue them til some Romanist vrge me farther vnto thē. But out of al this which hath bin said, I con­clude first that the Popes vassals in the Cōvē [...]cle of Trent, were more then audacious & incroching vpon God Almighty, when they durst to vendicate that authority, as to put into the Canon that which lieth open to so many iust exceptions, and was repu­diated by such, so ancient, and so many, as well of their own as o­ther. And secondly that our Iesuits of late, as Bellarmine & Cā ­pian, & our other more vnlearned Papistes, as Bristow and the scribler of this Pamphlet, with whom I haue to deale, are very hard fore-headed, when they exclaime vpon vs, for doing that, which they ought also to do, and call vs heretikes for imitating the iudgement so mature and well grounded of such persons & Churches. But the pity of all pities is, that their blinde and deafe disciples, our country-men and brethren according to the flesh giue credit to such lies, and accept that as the Gospell, which when it i [...] sea [...]ed doth fly to ragges and fitters.

THE Church of God hath ever beene accustomed, when any here­sie did spring vp therein to gather a Councell of Bishops, Prelates, and of other learned men, in which the truth was approved, & the heresie condemned. And whosoever were cōdemned by such Councels, cō ­firmed by the See Apostolike, were ever deemed, & in very deed were he­retikes, and for such at length were taken of all men, and in the end vani­shed away. So were the Arrians condemned in the Nicene Councell, the Macedonians in the Councell of Constantinople, the Nestorians in the E­phesine, the Eutychians in the Chalcedonian, & others in other Councels. All which heretikes although they flourished for a time, and drew manie people yea Emperours, Kings, States and Countreies after thē, yet in time they came to nothing, and the Councels which condemned them were v­niversally embraced.

THere are two things in the two first Pe­riodes of this your Chapter, which al­though not simplye in themselues, yet proceeding [...]om you do deserue admi­ration. For you who were wont to make such large propositiōs as no Papist durst avouch, filling your mouth & pen with nothing els but All, are growne in this Reason vnreasonably modest, & downe [Page 332] below a great many of your fellowes, when first you allow other learned [...] besides Bishops & Prelates to be of your Councels: and secondly you appoint these generall Assemblies not to be called by your Pope, but it is inough that they bee confirmed by the See Apostolike. But the later of these we ascribe to your good Maister Bristowes such like extenuation, vvho hath your very wordes confirmed by the See Apostolike, and from one of whose Brist. Mo­ti [...]. 13 [...] Motiues abbreviated, you borrow the most of this your pre­sent Reason; and the former we impute either vnto your igno­raunce, who know not what your fellowes hold in this pointe, or to the ticklenes of the matter it selfe, wherin nōe of you with the safety of Popery, can define ought, but it lyeth subiect to some exceptiō. Some of your mē wil haue none to haue voice in Coū ­cels but Bishops, & so In enume­ratione Cociliorū: Possevinus saith A Coūcelis nothing else but a lawfull Congregation of Bishops. And it is scant to be found in any of those whom you cite for Synodes, that any are named but Bishops, as the Nicene In praesa­tion. Con­cili Nicen [...] Councel consisted of three hundred & eighteene Bishops, the In fine Concil. Tri­dentin: Tridentine (if we wil take their owne account) of two hundred and seventy Bishops; vnlesse perhaps the Legates and Oratours of some Princes may bee numbred to be in the Councell, who yet haue no voices to ratifie doctrine, excepte they bee Bishoppes. And yet this shoulde seeme se­cretly to go somewhat hard even in Campians mind, who vseth first a generall word, Ration: 4. the Senatours of the vvorld, but aftervvard when he hath saide the choice of Bishops he addeth the pi [...]he of Di­vines. Yea Chronil: 4. Genebrard himselfe magnifying the Councel of La­terane aboue all that ever were for number, saith that it had in it for cheefe Bishoppe Innocentius the Pope, then tvvo Patri­arkes, him of Constantinople, and the other of Hierusalem, Arch-bishops Greeke and Latin seventy, Bishops 400. Abbots twelve, Priours of Covents eight hundred, which in all were Fa­thers 1285. Now whether [...]ese Priours had voices he doth not expressely tell, or whether they were there but to assist, dispute, search, informe or to ease the Prelates. And yet the manner of his particular enumeration doth seeme to give them consent there: vvhich notvvithstanding▪ cannot bee gathered concerning the In fi [...]e Con [...]il. [...]ri­dentin. Councell of Tren [...], vvhere albeit the Divines and Cano­nists [Page 333] which were there of any reckoning be remembred, yet the Bishops as having voice alone are at last nūbred by themselues. In the first Nicene Councel it seemeth by Soz▪ l: 1. 19 Sozomen that Cō ­stantine the Emperoure had a suffrage. But it may be doubted whither Athanasius had any or none, being then no Bishop, yet a right worthy man, & on whom the burthen of disputing with the Arrians there, didly as much as vpon any one man whatsoe­ver. It were good therefore that it were agreed vpon betweene you Papists, who be the proper and peculiar persons who haue consent of iudgment and deciding in Councels, before that you build too much vpon such Convocations. In contro. Costerus saw that there was no small scruple in this and other circumstances belō ­ging to Councels, & therefore he would not meddle at all with this Argument. 2. Bellarmines opinion is that ordinarily only Bi­shops 1. Bellar. de [...]: c 15 haue a right of deciding & determining voices; extraordi­narily & by priviledge or custome, Cardinals, Abbots, & Gene­rals of orders, albeit they be not Bishops may also haue voices (but this saith he was only in the Councels of Florence, Lateran and Trent) other Priests or Cleargy men may helpe by dispu­ting to finde out trueth, but haue no suffrage, And therefore hee condemneth the Councell of Basill, where such were admitted to a deciding voice. Princes are called to defende the Coun­cell, and to take notice what is decreed that they aftervvarde may castigate such as stande against it. Other lay men may be present to performe some necessarie services to such Assemblies. Now you are as it seemeth, for the extraordinary.

2 For the second point, if the supremacy of your Pope must stande vpright, it vvill prooue to be his alone to call and assem­ble Councels. For giue it to Princes, and then they shall bee supreme governors in causes Ecclesiasticall, vvhich you will not admit, albeit it be, an evident truth: & permit it to the Cardinals, then you set the mēbers aboue the head, the coch before the hor­ses. Your Popes in these later ages haue take on thē to cōvocate al Synods, & wil not indure that any man should meddle vvith that matter, which they desire to keepe as charily as the apple of their eie. Sleid. l. [...] Against Pope Iulius the 2. there were 9. Cardinals who [Page 334] combined themselues, & going to M [...]laine decreed that a Coū ­cell should be held at Pisa to reforme▪ Iulius: but the Pope pro­tested against it, and said that it belonged to him alone to call such assemblies, and there vpon as Lib: 9: Guicciardine saith, the Di­vines and Canonists were in iudgement divided. And yet vvee know that all the olde Councels were congregated only by the order and commandement of the Emperors: So was the first Ni­cene Councell gathered by Constantine the G [...]eat, as De vita Cōst [...]l. [...]3: 61 Eulebi­us who lived in his age witnesseth, and after him Hist: Ecc [...]l 1: 9: Soc: 16. Theodoret. The Synode at Constantinople is expresly Socr. 5: 8 [...] said to be called by Theodosius. And the great Councel as Chalcedon was congre­gated by the commandement of Valentinian and Martian the [...]mperors, as appeareth in the preface to the same. Leo the Pope was one who vpon an imagination that he sate in a seat Aposto­licall tooke somewhat more stomake to him then any of his pre­decessours, and also more then any of his successours til after the time of Gregory the Great; yet there is an Episto: ad Theodos. Epistle of his extant, which he wrote to Theodosius, wherein he maketh request that his Highnesse would giue him leaue to assemble a Synode in I­taly. This is so plaine in Histories, that the French Chronicler Du Lib. 5: Haillan, in the life of Ludovicus Pius vseth this speech, By so many examples cited by me it doth appeare, that Charles the Greate, and Ludovicus Pius did gather Councels, & that so they [...]ight do with­out the authority and permission of Popes, and that they were the supreme iudges of Ecclesiasticall matters in their kingdomes, and that they coulde as well dispose and order things spirituall as tēporall. I would our Eng­lish Papists would marke this, who make such scruple of the oth of Supremacy. Nay Chatles the 5. a late Emperour, and one who much more then mough was devoted to the Romane Bishops, had learned so farre to walke in the waies of his noble Progeni­tours and Predecessours, that without the Popes privity or con­sent he gathered assemblies in matters of religiō: which as In Actis Lu thers. Ann: 1544 Co­chleus reporteth, Pope Paul [...]s the 3. tooke ill, and challendged him for it that in his Rescripts, making mention of celebrating a meeting about businesses in religion, [...]e saith nothing of the Pope. The Romane Bishop would haue made the world beleeue, that therein was some wrong done vnto him; but Charles knew well inough what [Page 335] he himselfe had to do. Thus it is not yet agreed among our Ro­manists whose is the primary authority to commaunde, convent and congregate Councels, and therefore you in your very ex­traordinary wisedome and modesty declining this doubt, tell vs onely that these Councels must be confirmed by the See Apostolike. He would haue a Negatiue voice to repell them when they haue decreed & done what they meant to do. Now these two obser­vations being made, we trace your other steps.

3 Your words are liable to many exceptions. For first when heresies sprung vp, there were not evermore Councels gathered as is evident by that time which was before the Nicene Councel held vnder Constantine; and yet betweene the daies of the A­postles and that Emperour, there were many heresies stirring as may be seene by In haeres. Epiphanius and S. De heresib. ad Quod­vult Deum. Austen. But such fl [...]wes as these be, with you are nothing. Secondly it would be expressed what you meane by the Church of God: for sometimes heretiks did make such Convocations, and representing then the visible Church did beare much away. Such were the Councels at Theo: 217: Sar­di [...], at S [...]c: 1. 21 [...] Tyrus, at Lib: 2. 7: Antioch, at [...]: ca [...] 25: Sirmium, at Lib: 4: 11. Ariminum, I mean those meetings which were made by & for the Arrians, Thirdly in all such assemblies trueth was not approved and heresie con­demned; for in these which I haue named, it was otherwise; and as the Mat. 26: 3▪ Councell of Annas and Caiphas with the other Priestes was not for Christ but against Christ, so the meeting of the Arri­ans in those places was not to vpholde trueth, but to destroy it. You should then haue said that sometimes such Councels were assembled, where [...]f the Spirite of God did illustrate them with truth, all matters were well, and especially those of mainest mo­ment, but if they were directed by faction or humane courses, it fell out otherwise. That Synode in the Actes, was such an holy Act: 15: 6: meeting, where about some differences in religion and doctrine, the Apostles came togither, and th [...] [...]rit of God was President among them. But in the fourth place, that it should be of the es­sence of a lawful Councel that it must be ratified by the Romish Bishop, is a iest Bellar. de conc [...]l [...]: 12 sometimes peradventure mencioned and ar­rogantly challenged by some of that See, but never by other in any antiquity assented vnto. Lib: 2: 5: Socrates indeed speaketh of a Ca­non [Page 336] of the Church, that without the sentence, or advise of the Bishop of Rome, decrees for the Church should not be establi­shed. But this is spoken by him, as taking it vp only from some claime of Iulius the stirring Pope then living, and not from anie authenticall recorde. For where was that ever concluded? The Nicene Councell indeede taking order that there might be Pa­triarkes in severall places of the world, who might compose and direct Ecclesiasticall matters in their Provinces, had for the re­spect which was then borne to Rome, as being the Imperial ci­ty, suffered the Bishop thereof to take the first Socr. 5. 8. place in all ge­nerall Convocations, as it gaue the seconde to the Patriarke of Constantinople, and afterward to the other Patriarks in their order. Further prerogatiue we finde none given, howsoever the Bishops of Rome aspiring to an Ecclesiasticall Monarchy did in processe of time stand on it, that they had more. In a Concil. carthagi­nens, 3. Councell at Carthage it was decreed that the Bishop of the first See should not be called the Prince of Priests, or the highest Priest or any such thing, but only the Bishop of the first See. And Part: 1: Distinct. 99: 3: Gratian citeth the very same words, out of a Councell of Afrike, which intendeth that of Carthage, but he addeth in the end of the Decree, But let not even the Bishop of Rome hee called Universall. And [...]lbid. 4: farther he citeth a Decree of Pelagius the Pope Let none of the Patriarkes e­ver vse the word of Vniversallity, because if our Patriarke be called V­ [...]iversall, the name of Patriarkes to derogated from other [...] but f [...]r be this from faithfull men, that any one should take that to himselfe, whence in a­ny the smallest respect he may seeme to d [...]sh the honour of his brethrē. And least any man should say, that the Pope meant this of other Patriarkes and not of himselfe, it followeth in the same lbid, 5. Gratiā, that Pope Gregory was angry with Eulogius, that he had called him Vniversall Pope. I confesse that in progresse of time, the Bi­shops of Rome vnder a colour of a Canon in the Nicene Coun­cell did claime that appe [...] should be made to them, but when the Fathers of Afrike assem [...]ed at Con. Car­thaginen. 6 Carthage disclaimed it, and would by no meanes take knowledge of any such Canon, they sent to Nicea to see the Originall of the Nicene Councell, and finding no such matter there, they put the Pope to much shame in as much as it was but a forged Canon, vpon which hee had in­sisted. [Page 337] But to returne to Iulius in whose behalfe the former cha­lenge was made, when the Easterne Bishops had received impe­rious letters from him, they did no lesse then scorne it in him, & would not indure any such vsurpation of his, as both Lib: at [...] Socrates and Lib: 3: 7. Sozomen do relate. Yea we finde in Athanasius himselfe, who had fled to lulius, & whō it cōcerned that lulius shuld haue nothing of his true authority diminished, because he stuck close to Athanasius in his toubles, that the Athana. in Apolog. 2. Easterne Bishops assēbled in the Coūcel at Sardis, do cal Iulius their beloved fellow servant & nothing more. Which was the phrase not only of thē being a cō ­pany of Catholiks & Orthodox Bishops, but Epistol, 3: Cypriā before that did vse to cal Cornelius the Rom. Bishop his brother & no more.

4 Yet if it should be graūted that the Patriarkes in the name & behalfe of their Provinces should haue a voice of necessary cō ­sent, what is that more to the Romish Bishops then to the other Patriarchical Sees? And besids this, the place of Socrates tēdeth to nothing but political ordinances, ceremonies & customes for governmēt of the church, which were not to be obtruded on all without cōsent of some chief in every Province, & especially that of Rome, the most eminēt in the empire. And of that nature was the cause of Athanasius there, who was questioned as depriuea­ble of his Bishoptik, because he had exercised his fūctiō & iuris­dictiō, being not restored again after his suspensiō by a Synod of some Bish. But if that a general Coūcel should with good groūds out of the word of God cōdēne heresie, and the Pope would not ioine with thē, whether this cōdemnatiō were lawful or no, is ra­ther our questiō. Where although your Popes wil take on thē to haue a Negatiue voice against the Coūcel, & your Canonists & Pope-flaterers so dispute it, yet the Coūcel of Cōstāce is flat to y^e cōtrary: for there as In Ioh. 24. Platina saith, the Pope is subiected to y^e Coū cel, yea & deprived by it also. And the conc [...] cō ­stant. Sess. 5 Coūcel it selfe saith that a general Coūcell hath power immediatly frō Christ, to which everie one of what state or dignity so ever he be, yea if it be Papal, is boūd to obey in those things which pertain to faith, & to the rooting out of schisme, & the reformatiō of the Church in the head & in the mēbers. Thus the Coū ­cell speaketh flatly, and the Popes speake directly to the con­trary, and learned Papistes themselues are shrewdly in suspence [Page 338] what to say or beleeue herein. Replique a [...] [...]e de [...] verit. cap. 5. One of them, a French man, say­ing more in the beginning then we accept, confesseth of late far­ther in this manner. Never did Christian man say or doubt whither the Pope were aboue other Bishops, but the question is whither hee bee a­boue a Councell, and the whole Catholike Church [...] body gathered, This is [...] vndecided, and [...] rather a matter of policie, or governement then of the substaunc [...] of faith. Nevertheles it were good that this knot were opened before that you talke to much of your Coū ­cels, and your Popes ratifying of thē. It were well that your Pa­pists knew what to beleeue. Now to proceed. Such as the first & ancient Councel [...] condēned for Heretiks, were rightly so accoū ­ted; for they were iustly censured out of the Scriptures to holde vntruths. But such as your later Conventicles of Lateran, Trent & such like, condēned, were the good servants of God, & were not, nether are iustly to be reputed heretiks, but by the Arch [...]he­retiks of the world, Antichrists men, whose censure being drawn frō their own braine, & the Spirit of Sathan, & not frō the holy Ghost, is to be esteemed for nothing. The condēnatiō of the Ar­rians, Macedonians, Nestorians, & Eutychians we allow of, be­cause they taught doctrin against Christ & the word of God, & we are glad of their ruine. And wee finde that after our Saviours speech, Mat 15. 13. Every plant which [...]y heavenly father hath not planted shal be rooted vp, here [...]ks commonly are soone blowne away, although Kings, States & Countries for the time do admit thē: as the Ar­rian infection was widely entertained. Yet we cannot certainely conclude that al heresies do in time come to nothing, vnlesse we will vnderstand that time to be the end of time, even the finall dissolution of all things. The schisme of the [...]. King: 17 34. [...]oh: 4: 20. Samaritanes dissen­ting frō the Iews lasted long. Your Papacy hath had a great cō ­tinuance, being the confluence of a whole sinke of heretical do­ctrine: You haue long since condemned the Greeke & Russian Church, and yet they hold out. The Iconomachi & Image brea­kers were condēned in the second Nicene Councel, and yet the defenders of their faith in that point do stil remain. Had not the Arrians sentence against them long agone, in the first Synode at Nice & yet there be said to be store of thē in Bellar. lib. 1. & 2 de Christo. Transylvania. And for the Pelagians, I do not remember that any Councell directly [Page 339] proceeded against thē: yet they deserved to be so met with: not­withstanding. Papists do much ioine with them in the matter of free will. [...]It is possible then, that as the Divell indureth so may some of his Disciples, successiuely, & the Mat. 13 [...] tares which the envi­ous man hath sowne, may be let alone to the harvest, that is to say, heretiks to the last day. But let them stand or fall, slowly or quickly, such as obstinatly maintaine false doctrine, are heretik [...] & Councels which by warrant of the Scripture do condēne thē, are to be accepted & well esteemed by all, so that they mingle not drosse with their gold, no water with their wine.

ANd no doubt the late fa [...] Councell of Trent, which by the same authority and order, hath c [...]ned the Protestantes & other se­ctaries for heretiks, will in time b [...] every where received, & these new fe­lwes by it [...]ized will v [...]terly v [...]sh away. For indeede [...]f a man consider the matter throughly, he shall plainely perceiue that th [...]se sectes haue no likelyhood of cōti [...], by reason they haue no m [...]s to gather a Councell, and much lesse to [...] matters therein if [...] were gathered, being without an head as they [...], and every one [...]leaving [...]ly to his own priv [...] opi [...], & therefore [...]an [...]er all [...] togither, or if by any pow­er they were compelled ther [...], they haue [...] agree in one, for that they will not yeeld [...] any iudgement, but what is framed of their [...] br [...], and therefore it [...]st needs [...] amongst them, as we see it to be Quot homines, tot sente [...]tiae, So many men, so many opinions.

5 THe famousnes of your Conventicle at Trent i [...] famous­ly to be laughed at. It was eighteene yeare in acting, from 1545. to the yeare 1563. nowe a peec [...] and then a patch, interrupted & to it againe. Three Popes one after another, that is Paulus the 3. Iulius the 3. and Pius the 4. did beat all their wits and vsed their best imploiments to make somewhat of it, & yet most base and beggerly it prooved. The most of the nations of [Page 340] Christendome had nothing to do with it, neither did they send thither. The Protestants vniversally refused, and some gaue out the reason of it in Sleid, l. 16. printed tracts. First because it was assembled by the Pope, whose authority they should haue ratified, if they had come at his call. Secondly the Legats of the Pope were Pre­sidents there; therfore nothing was to be concluded or disputed against their maister. Thirdly no man could come there but he must condescend to many things against his conscience, there being first and principally required obedience to the Papacy, & presence at many Idolatrous Acts. Fourthly there was no free­dome [...]o speake truth, but that any man might haue bin served as Cochl in Hist Hussit. l: 2: Iohn Hus was at the Councell of Constance, who had a safe conduct frō Sigismund then king of the Romanes, & afterward Emperor and yet by a tricke, that faith given to heretiks is not to bee kept, or as our M. Ration. 4: Capian said, Caesar sealed it, but the Christiā world vnsealed it, being greater thē Caesar the good man there lost his life. Fiftly their Princes for reasons of state did not think fit to imploy thē thither. Nay Popish Realms did not ioin with that Coūcel, as Q. Mary in all her time sent not thither, which may appeare by this, that in the Cataloge of Bishops ther is named but only one of England, & that was Th. Goldwel Bishop of S. Asaph, who de­parted the Realm in Q. Elizabeths time, & was at Trēt at a snatch of that assembly, cōming before the final breaking vp of all: but he was thē only a titulary Bish. without any Bishoprik. Of which sort there were also divers other, to help make vp a simple shew. As Pope Gentill. in exam Cō ­cil. [...]riden Sel. 1. Sle [...] ­dan. lib. 17: Paulus the 3. made that Olaus which is called Magnus Archb of Vpsala (a place said to be in Gothia) & one Robertus Venātius Archbishop of Armath in Ireland. He bestowed those titles on those two poore men while they lived at Rome, & had nothing in the world to doe with the places of their pretended Bishopriks, but were without Church, or Clergy, or Diocesse, or any revenue at all. He might as well haue created thē Bishops of Antioch and Alexandria, if he had pleased. These two poore hungrye soules the Pope for a vvhile mainetained barely at Rome: at last as men comming out of far parts of the world he sent thē to Trent, allowing Olaus 15. crownes a month, which as the Authour saieth vvas but a simple pittaunce for an Arch­bishop, [Page 341] and especially for him who was called Magnus, but to Venantius that pretended Armachanus he allowed lesse. Was not this thinke you to goe a begging for Bishops, to furnish vp this high and famous Councell, when such simple shiftes vvere made? He who put out the Councel, of likelyhood was sore asha­med of it, and therefore in his commemoration of the Bishoppes there assembled, he mencioneth no such men, but leaveth them both out as counterfeits.

6 I returne to speake of Popish Princes. Among all of that part in Germany, much of the Country yet to this day standing Ro­mishly affected, there came Bishops but Cat. prael: in fine Cōc two, if we shoulde af­ford thē their own reckoning. But almost no place was neerer to Trent then France was. And yet L. Anti­guizart. Francis the Great, who lived at the first meeting of that cōciliable, had his Orator or Embassa­dor there, that was the Abbot of Bellozan, who in the name of his master protested, that neither the King nor any of his Realm could be bound by the decrees of that Coūcel. The Author wri­ting this addeth farther, that the king knew that the assēbly was provided for the particular profit of some few, & not for the cō ­mōwealth of Christēdōe. The like was afterward done by Hēry the 2. K. of Frāce strēgthned by the autority of al his Parliamēts, who haue stil opposed thēselues against the executiō of the Trē ­tish decrees, as being abusiue & ful of Nullities. Yet the same Hēry obtained of the Gent: 1: 3: Swicers, Papists & al, that they should not con­sent to that Coūcel. Truth it is that Declar. du Roy deNa­var. premi­er Recutil. Charls the 9. did send to the Pope to prolong the Synode, & having obtained so much, did send his Legats & Bishops to Trent, with large Instructions for the reformatiō of the Clergy, wherin whē they had labored for the space of 18. months, & could get nothing yeelded vnto, the K. informed therof, caused the to protest against that Coūcel, & to come their waies: which they did immediatly, notwithstādīg great means made by the Pope, & the Cardinal of Lorraine who bore thē grand sway in Frāce, to returne againe. So they signed not the Decrees of the Coūcel, & yet cūnīgly they are put in the Cataloge, 26. Frēch Prelats, as if ther amōg others had cōfirmed all. Such frauds be in the papacy. And as there in presence it was reiected by the Frēch, so it stood, afterward in so Ibidem. much that in the [Page 342] yeare 1572. when after the horrible Massacre was committed, time seemed much to favor it, it was propounded in the Parlia­ment at Paris, all the Chambers being assembled, that this Coū ­cell might be admitted in France, but it was then also repudia­ted. Much in like manner was done to that purpose, in the Gent. l: [...] year 1585. in the time of King Henry the third, but it tooke no suc­cesse: & for ought that I could ever heare, it standeth vpō those tearmes till this present time, the Papists in Fraunce reiecting it. So that well you may take on you to be a foolish Prophet, and say that hereafter it will be thus and thus received, but for ought that any man else can see, this good Councell is as like to goe backward as forward. To returne here to the famousnesse of this Conventicle, Greeke Prelates there in the Catalogue are said to be sixe, which I conceiue to be such as in the name of the Vene­tians had Bishopricks on the farther side of the Adriatike sea, called in times past by the generall name of Greece, or else in some of the Ilands neere the bottome of Greece, but subiect to the Venerians. For of any who truly were of the Greek Church, I do not finde any mention. Of other nations of Christendome (the Italians and Spanyards being excepted) there is no coun­trey which had more then three, some two, divers but one, and yet we must allow their own account, and take Bishops for tales quales, at Goldwell was, to say nothing of Olaus: and any man who in that eighteene yeare peeped into Trent shall be nūbred for one. For Spanyards it is said of them that they were 31. And the lesse to be wondered at, since many things were there brued in behalfe of their maister, and if we will beleeue De Rep. lib: [...]: 6: Bodine, the King and people of Spaine are great servants of the Pope. For when hee had mencioned that the Popes in many ages had at­tempted to bestowe at their pleasure benefices in divers Kings Countries, but that still Princes haue reiected those ambitious Rescripts of the Popes, he addeth, I doe except the kings of Spaine, the most obsequious servants of the Popes of Rome, vvho not without a great rewarde did obtaine by a grant of Sixtus the Romans Bishop, that then benefices should not be given to strangers, It is then no marveile, if the Spanyardes so confederated with the Pope did bustle to Trent: but most of all their king then Charles the 5. vrging them [Page 343] thither, who meant to make no small vse of the countenance of that Councell against his Protestants in Germany, and therfore was so [...] A [...]. 547: exceedingly angry when a stay was like to be of that Sy­node, a while after the beginning of it; some of the Fathers for fear of the plague creeping in at Trent, withdrawing themselues to Bonony in Italy, and the rest remaining at Trent, and so the congregation being divided.

7 But that which much commendeth this Tridentine Convo­cation, was the excellent number of Italian Prelates got thither: who being vnder the Popes nose; and fit to helpe at a pinch, are said there to haue bin to the number of 187. Where a man of cō ­mon sence may very wel smile, that out of Italy which for quan­tity of grounde containeth no more then the two Realmes of England and Ireland, there may come more then ninescore Bi­shops. Wherein we must doe well to giue a favourable interpre­tation, that peradventure some one pretty Bishopricke might yeeld towarde the reckoning two men or more, one beeing at Trent in the beginning of the Conventicle, another in the mid­dle, & a third might be there in the end. But otherwise the truth is, that Italy hath many base and pety Bishopriks, of little circuit of ground and of smal commodity, which was long since obser­ved, when the In reme­dijs Grava. German. Germanes in their complaints against the Papa­cy, could say that divers ordinary benefices in Germany, were of more yearly worth and commodity then many Bishopriks in I­taly. Of these little hungry minims, at a beck of the Popes came vp so many at the end of the Coūcell, as they alone being a ma­ior part of voices, were able by farre to overbeare all the rest of Christendome, which were there present. Before that time, what a goodly generall Councell was there at Trent, that Campian should vse such admiration in speaking of it, Ration: 4 [...] Good God, what va­riety of nations, what choice of Bishops of the whole world, what glorie of Kings and Common-wealthes, what pith or marrow of Divines, vvhat holinesse, what teares, what fastings, what flowers of Universities, vvhat tongues, what subtilitie, how great labour, what infinite reading, what ri­ches of vertues and studies, did fill that maiesticall sacred place? The true vanity and Rhetoricall flourish of his speech may well bee seene, by that poore confluence which was there, when some [Page 344] Acts & those of the greatest moment passed there, as by name that concerning the [...] Canonical Scripture, the equalling of tra­ditions Session: 4 [...] to the writtē word of God, the allowing only of the Vul­gar Latin edition for authentical. For thē & after that, as appea­reth by the calculatiō of the time, there were in the Sleid. l. 17 meeting, be­sides the Cardinals which were the Popes Legats there, and the Cardinal of Trent & Pachecus the Spanyard, foure Archbishops wherof the poore & sterneling titulary Olaus & Venantius be­fore named were two, Bishops 33. wherof two were French, fiue. Spaniards, one of Illyricū, & the rest were Italiās. Doctors of Di­vinity which were Monks, 35. other which were not Monks, 12. and all these almost Spanyards. This was your late famous Coū ­cell of Trent, so much craked of by all you Papists, who intend to make that seeme a mountaine which was meaner then a mole hill, that so you may feed fat your simple and credulous follow­ers, with bigge words vttered in generall, and spoken as in the clowds. Now if we should sift also what manner of men, & what noble Clerkes many of those were who met there, the grace of this bragge would be so much the more stained. Calvin lived in that time, & saw what excellent rare lads they were, which went voluntarily out of France thither: for as before you heard, the kings sent none. I will cite his words as In praefat. ad Hist [...]r: Hu [...]it. ex praef. Cal [...]. cont Con­cil. [...]riden. Cochleus setteth them down, Let the Patrones of Councels answere me bona fide, if a mā should reckon them all in order vnto them, what man of them would they not cō ­temne? Nay when those Reverend Fathers doe looke one vpon another, it cānot be but they are ash [...]med of themselues. For they are knowne to thē ­selues, & what other mens iudgement is of them, they are not ignoraunt. Therfore if you will take away the name of a Councell, the whole Papacie must cōfesse, that al the Bishops which were there, was nothing but raffe. But I thinke good to leaue to other na [...]ions their ornaments vntouched. I will only intreate my countreymen of France, that they wil valew at a iust price that portion which they cōferred. Amongst the principall mēbers of the Church, they do reckon the kingdom of France▪ Frō thence there were two Bishops present, the one of Nene [...]um, the other of Clarement. Both a­like vnlearned and stupidious. The Archbishop Aquensis I doe scant nū ­ber amongst French men. And he of Agatha as curious men vse to doe, was there but as an idle looker [...]n. I beseech you French men, who of you cā [Page 345] perswade himselfe, that these things doe come frō the holy Ghost, which even an innumerable multitude of such men shall babble out? For these imperfections and blemishes every way we vpō sound cōsidera­tion thinke the Trent assembly to be worthy of no better titles, then the co chl in Histor. Hus sit: lib: 1: Hussites gaue the Councell at Rome, which was cal­led by Iohn the 23. or rather 24. as we account him. For when the Pope had in that meeting condemned Wiclef, the Hussites laughed at him, and his sily meane Conventicle, saying that it was done not in Generali Con [...]ilio in a Generall Councell, but in Angulari Concilio, in a Councell in a corner. And for Pralati de regnis orbis, the Prelates of the kingdomes of the world, they said there were pauci monachi & Simoniaci vrbis, a few monks & simo­niacal persons of that city Rome. This is most true of your Tren­tish concurrence. Vnto all these maimes in it, we might adde, that for matters importāt, nothing was so cōsulted there, as that is was to be cōcluded among the fathers there assembled, but frō Rome was sent stil what should be determined▪ so that not vnworthyly the scoffe was vsed, that the holy Ghost which should haue dire­cted at Trent, was sent frō Rome in a box. This be said touching the forme & circūstances of that assembly so unmoderatly & vn­deservedly magnified, to the which I might ioine many other Nullities set down by In ex [...]mi­ne concil. Trident. Gētillētus a French mā; & for the matter as it cōcerneth Popish divinity, it hath bin prety well coursed by Calvin & Chēnicius. So that being rightly balanced every way, there is little or nothing of authority to befound in it.

8 Your hope that the Councell of Trent will by some grace a­rise to a higher degree is borrowed from Ration: 4 Campian, who [...]ide that while Chēnicius, vnlesse he did take heed should be buried with Arius, the Tridentine Synode, the elder it gr [...]w, so much the more dayly, and so much the more continually it should flourish. Well, the Prophet himselfe first came to naught, and the Conciliable now more then tvventy yeares after, is in the same case as before or worse. And it is to be hoped that higher it shall not rise, vnlesse it bee vvith the children of vnbeliefe. As for vs that pro [...]esse against it, wee doubt not, but by the protection of almightye God, our religion shall stande vnto the daye of indge [...]nte, maugre all the treasons and conspiracies vvhich the Romish [Page 346] whore can haue against it. It is her Apoc. 18. 2 Babylon that for a great part is fallen already, and must fall a faire deale more. Those whom you call new fellowes are able to proue every part of their pro­fession to be more ancient then your vn-Catholike superstition. Your reasons why we cannot continue, do halt on every foote. We cannot call a Councell, Ergo we cannot continue. A simple Antecedent, and a childish Consequent. And why I pray you may not the Princes & governors of the Reformed kingdomes and States of Europe, as well assemble a Councell as the Popish Princes may? Yea and so much the better a Synode, because dis­putation and conference may be free, as being out of the worde of God, and not restained within the limits of your Popes plea­sure. Then how can you proue that it is of the necessity of religi­on, that Generall Councels should be called? May not Provinci­all assemblies serue the turne, for setling severall lands and coun­tries, as they haue done before? It is de benè esse of religion, that there should be great meetings if there be cause, & they be law­fully called, and orderly proceeded in, but it is not de esse. Else if there had arose no Act. 15. 6. variance in the time of the Apostles, which was the cause of their meeting, their religion might haue sunke. Your next proposition is as weake, that we can decide nothinge without a head. We haue a head and that is Christ: and his Spirit is his Vice-gerent to supply his place, and this Spirit will not be wanting to those who rightly & earnestly pray for him. And we haue also asquire to direct all by, that is the written word: we re­member Christs speech, Ioh. [...]. 39. search the Scriptures. And for disagree­ment and stifnes to yeeld, if any be or haue bin of that minde, it is, vitium pers [...]na non rei, that party is to be blamed, and not his re­ligion [...]. In all differences men are too much wedded to their o­pinions. Yet we doubt not but when Christian Princes shall be pleased to call a Generall Councell, in such sort and to such end as it should be convocated, God who moveth the mindes of the superiours like good Constantines and Theodosians, to do their parts, will also moue the harts of inferiours to humility and con­formity, laying a side private spirits, which is much to bee intrea­ted of the Almighty. Remember I pray you that there may bee c [...]rtaine rules set downe, which may bridle refractary persons, as [Page 347] it was In collo­quio Ratis­pon. [...]601. lately at Ratispone. Remember also that the Councell of Constance could proceede not only without a Pope to be their head, but also against three Popes, removing them and depo­sing them. Farthermore you much deceiue your selues in your o­pinion of our discord, for we do not so iarre as you imagine. For certainly we al agree wel inough to lay your Pope on the groūd; and the Churches of England and Scotland, and France, and Switzerland, and the low Countries, & (calling none of the Lu­therans) a good part of Germany with others iumping expreslie in the same faith, are able inough to make a most renoumed and Christian Councell. Do not thinke therefore that we are so farre from that as you speake of, for if you leane too much on that cō ­ceit, it will proue vnto you but a broken reede, which will both faile you, and the splints of it also wil run into your hands. Gods word shall be the line after the which we all will walke.

LAstly I would haue you here to marke the dealing of beretikes vvho play by Generall Councels even as they play by the Scriptures: for Conc. Flor. Sess. 5. & 6. Magdebur. Cent. 8. c. 9 & Cent. 9. cap. [...]9. they take and leaue as they lust and as best serveth their turne. There haue beene in all Generall Councels eighteene. All gathered, allowed, and confirmed by one and the selfesame authority, of which the Greeks receiue only seven. The Lutheranes the first fixe. The Eutyehians which are in Asia onely the first three. The Nestorians which are yet in the East onely the first two. The Trinitaries which are in Hungarie and Poleland re­ceiue n [...]ne at all: behold the liberty of your Gospell.

9 VVHat heretikes doe in refusing of Scripture wee list not now to examine: our iudgement and the rea­sons whervpon it is grounded, you haue heard in the last Chap­ter. Neither are we vnwilling to acquaint the Christian worlde, what it is that we doe holde concerning Councels: to wit that such as are rightly gathered togither, and take the direction of their conclusions from the Angell of the great counsaile, frō him [Page 348] who is called [...]. 9. 6. Counsailer, such are to be much reverenced and esteemed, but yet still as the words of men, and not immediatly of God. For it is one thing to be the word of God; and another to be guided by it. The former great Councels did take the sa­cred Oracle for the load starre of their direction, the later Mat. 26. 3. An­nas-like assemblies, and Cayphas-like Councels did least thinke of such matters. And therefore it may rightly bee saide that not the holy Ghost, but Sathan in the likenesse of such a Nicol. de Clem super materia Concilior. filthy bird as appeared at Rome in the Councel called by Iohn the foure & twētith, was President there. Yet we hold it worth the while, to looke a little into your doctrine concerning Councels. You make them of mighty authority as anone I shall shew, and yet the chiefe Patriarkes among you who boast so much of your V­nity and Consent, cannot agree which be the Councels whom you plead for to be authenticall. It is no marvell if your scholers cannot ye eld account of their faith, when you their Masters can­not. You for your part allow vs eighteene Generall Councels, but you doe not make vs so much beholding to you, as to tel vs which they be. In initio Platinae. Ounphrius who was held for a great Clerke a­mong you, reckoneth but sixteene, the fowre first of Nice, Con­stantinople, Ephesus and Chalcedon; then two other at Con­stātinople, then the second at Nice, then a fourth at Constant­inople, then one at Laterane, the next at Lions, then at Vienna one, afterwards those of Constance, Basile and Florence, then a­nother Laterane, & the last at Trent. In indice Conciliorū Possevinus keepeth your number of eighteene, but the Councels of Constance and Ba­sile hee secludeth. But whereas by this reckoning if he ioined with Ounphrius otherwise, he should now haue [...]but fourteene, he maketh fiue in all at Laterane, and two at Lions, and so they rise to be eighteene. In this account his 'fellow Iesuite [...] Bellar­mine [...] concil lib: 1: cap. 5: precisely ioyneth with him. And yet in substance they bee but thirteene, for he acquainteth vs that the first and seconde at Laterane, both those at Lions, and that of Vienna be lost, which by a consequent diminisheth fiue of the number. In Chro­nograph. Genebrarde who at length grew to bee Archbishop of Aix thought himselfe as good a man as either of those, or any who would defend thě, and therefore he will not take it after their tale. For he reckoneth [Page 349] to vs twenty General Coūcels, wherof as the fiue which are mis­sing are a part, so he solemnely taketh in those of Constance and Basile for as good as the best. Thus the greatest Rabbins cannot agree among themselues. All the stirre is about those of Con­stance and Basile, who indeed do touch the Popes freehold, and therefore himselfe, and all the Parasites who stand for him, are not hastily to admit thē. The Coūcel of Cōstance did dosse three Popes which were vp at once in a schisme, & subiected the Bish. of Rome to a Coūcel, which goeth hard, & especially when the Synode may be called without him, as that was: & therefore he wil none of that. The Coūcel of Basil would not be at the lure of Eugenius the 4. but set vp Ae [...] Silvi­us deCōcil. Bafil. Amedeus the Duke of Savoy against him, & made him an Antipape; & this I tel you is dangerous do­ctrin. This doth touch the triple crown, & therfore it is good loo­king before these things be ratified. What shal we the think that the Pope did in this case? Vbi supra Onuphrius he goeth briefly to work, & saith that the Coūcel of Basil was cōfirmed by Eugenius the 4. & that of Cōstance by Martin the 5. So the if hee say truth, they haue al their cōplemēts, & must go for currant mony. Cōcerning the Coūcel of Cōstāce Vt supra. Genebrard [...]ūpeth with him, & saiththat by Martin the 5. it was ratified. But he extenuateth that of Basil and saith that by Nicolas the 5. it was approved in those things, which belōg ad cīsur as & causas boneficiales. Vt. supra: Sic Bellar. de Concil: lib: [...] cap: 7 Possevinus like a Iesuit who must stick close to the Pope, saith that indeed that of Censures & of Benefices was allowed by Nicolas the 5. but the rest was al refused in the Coūcel at Laterane by Leo the 10. And there he telleth vs that such part of the Coūcel of Cōstāce as did set the Coūcel aboue the Pope was caslated & cashiered: but that which was done against Wiclef and Hus was ratified before by Pope Martin. Is not your provorb here true. So many mē, so manie minds? that faith givē to I. Hus may be brokē, as being to an here­tik, shal stād for good doctrin: but the allowāce of the Coch [...]. in Hist Hussit. l. 7. Eucharist in both kinds, made to the Hussits by y^e deputies of the coūcel of Basil, & the yeelding to the other 3. articles is frustrated. And it wil go hard with the Vir. Mary also, who there was quit of being conc: Ba­sil. Sess: 36. cōceived in Original sin, whervpō dependeth the feast of the cō ­cep [...] of our Lady as you cal it, wherof what the Frāciscane Friers [Page 350] will thinke, I leane to your consideration. By this, men may see how wise the Pope is, who will surely liue without his damme, if we will let him alone, when albeit all the Prelates of Christen­dome come togither and determine that which is good for the regiment of the Church, yet if it touch the Pope he will stande to nothing. Nay if Martin say yea, & confirme it, Leo comming after will say No, and vndoe it. So that let the Councel pray and talke what they wil of the holy Ghost being among them, if the Popes holy spirit do not agree with theirs, their holy Ghost is nothing. Somewhat it was that Pope Platin ain Faschal. 2: Paschall did put on a gir­dle whence 7. keyes and 7. seales did hang, that he might adver­tise men that according to the seven fold graces of the holy Spi­rit, he had power to close and seale, and open and shut the holie Churches over whom by Gods appointment he was ruler. That you must thinke to be all the world, and by a consequent the ge­nerallest Councell. Open your eies Papists, and see whither that these doctrines be not the mockery of all religion. You were as good take a compendious course, and say plainely that the Pope may doe what he list, as talke of a Councell and trouble a greate many mē about nothing, & then the resolutiō must be with Centu. 16 in An. 1518 Sil­vester Prierias, that the Popes authority is farre before the Coū ­cels, yea that the force of the sacred Scripture doth depend vpon the authority of the Pope, or with Ibidem. Caietane the Cardinall who in a Conference with Luther at Auspurge did directly preferre the power of the Pope before al Scriptures and Councels, which Luther good man would not beleeue. I pray you gentle Doctor suffer your selfe to be coniured so farre as on your honesty to tell me, whither you or we do attribute most to a Councel, when we teach that many comming togither in the feare of God, and sin­cerely vsing the best meanes that they possibly can, and beeing directed by Gods spirit & word, may conclude that which must stand good: and you say that be they never so many, so learned, so holy, & do they what they wil, yet if the Pope like not of it, (& he will not like any thing that shall binde him to any good­nes) it is not al worth a straw.

10 I cannot here omit, that the milke which you gaue in the beginning of this Chapter, is nowe cast downe by your owne [Page 351] heele. I cōmended you too soone. A black More cannot change his skinne, and you will to your owne biace. Here the Councels were not only allowed and confirmed by one and the selfe same autho­rity, and this you meane to be your Popes, but they are gathered also. The impudencie of this Proposition, which in a worde you thinke to steale away with, I haue shewed before. The Bishoppe of Rome durst neither for his head, nor soule haue saide such a word, in the time of the Primitiue Church. He should haue been most arrogant before God, and a rancke traytour to the Emperor his best master, if he had assumed that vnto him. I helped you even now with a place out of Socrates: let mee now quit that with another. Thus then he saith, Soc in pro aemio lib. 5. I haue everywhere in my storie made mention of the Emperours, becacause since that time that they began to be Christians, the businesse of the Church did seeme to depende vpon th [...] [...]cke, y [...] and the greatest Councels were by their sentence or or­der called together, and yet are so called. Alas, there was no token of the prety Popes supreame authority in cōvocating such Occu­menicall assemblies, till almost a thousande yeares after Christ. Afterwarde when the Pope had got the head, he began to bee a little bold: but his Dictates were only attended in such places of the West, as over which he had vsurped a spirituall dominion. But the Greeke and Easterne Church tooke no notice of those assemblies more then of factious and partiall Conventicles; which is the true cause that at the Councell of Florence (which was cunningly got togither by Eugenius the 4. to toppe that of Coch hist. Huss. lib. 9. Basile held at the same time, and which was assembled before by his owne authority, but afterward thwatted some of his de­signes) the Greekes did take no notice of any of the Synodes at Laterane, Lions or Vienna, where their ancestours before had not beene: but only they tooke knowledge of such as whither the Greekes their predecessours had freely gone. And therefore as Li. 4. Chr. Genebrarde saith, they who came to the meeting at Florēce, count that the eighth Synode, which is to be vnderstood, if they hold it for a Synode at all. And in the Scss. 5. & 6. Councell of Florence it selfe, the seconde helde before at Nice was then called by the Greekes the last Generall Councell, and speciall exception was taken to that which is commonlye called the eighth Generall [Page 352] Coūcel, albeit it was held at Cōstātinople, they saying first that it never was at all received, and secondly that afterward it was formerly abrogated. For in as much as it had condemned Pho­ [...]ius Patriarke of Constantinople, his successour Iohn called a­nother Synode and antiquated the former. Marke here that the Patriarke of the Greeke Church thinketh that he hath power to assemble Councels, directly opposite to the proceedings of the Romish Bishop, and that he challengeth to himselfe authoritie, to dissolue and annullate that which he supposeth the Western Patriarke with others his consorts to haue done either vsurping­ly or vniustly. So that very true it is, that the Greekes do not al­low the eighth Synode, not the other which followed and were held in the west, by the meanes of the Romane Bishop, & with out their indifferent concurrence.

11 What you cite in the name of the Lutheranes, out of the Magdeburgenses is acknowledged, and consented vnto by vs. In the eighth [...] cent: 8. 9: Century, they among other Provincial meetings speaking of the confluence at Nice, which is commonly called the second Nicene Councell, in the setting downe thereof doe not dissemble their opiniō, that is their dislike vnto it. And what Christian man is there rightly advised, which hath read the Exod. 20. se­cond commandement concerning Images, who doth not both dislike and detest that Conventicle, for decreeing both erection and adoration of Images in Churches? In the like sorte in the ninth cent: 9. 9: Century, the compilers of it do shew themselues not wel affected to that which you call the eighth Generall Councell, & they haue no smal reason for it. For besides the allegations of the Greekes against it, which even now is specified, and besides the matter of it, which I will not stand to discusse, there was a foule attempt at the very entrance into it. The Pope of Rome had so farre prevailed, that he had there his Agents who stoode at the Councell dore with writing tables, profering them to all who would enter there, and requiring that they first should subscribe to the Iutisdiction and transcendent authority of the Romane Bishop. To which Such as yeelded did enter in: and those who refused were not only repelled, but it was done with much re­proach and disgrace vnto them. A fit course to make a free Sy­node. [Page 353] And of this sort either directly or indirectly haue all the Popes Councels bin. You tel vs that some Eutychians be in A­sia, and Nestorians be in the East, whereas indeed Asia is in the East: but countrey in particular you name vs none, nor authour you cite vs none. I haue heard indeed of Marchantes who haue travailed in those parts, that at this day there is at Aleppo a Cō ­gregation of Nestorians, and likely it is that in the country ther­about, or farther of in Armenia, there may be more. Neither is it vnlikely, but that some also may embrace the old heresie of Eu­tyches in those parts. In as much then as Nestorius was condem­ned in the third General Socn 7. 33 Evagr. 1. 4. Coūcel at Ephesus, it is probable that his folowers wil refuse that Synode, & consequently all cōming after & ratifying that, & so they must only accept the 2. formost. And since Eutyches & Dioscorus were cōdēned in the 4. Evagr. 2. 4 Coū ­cel at Chalcedō, it is most credible that if there now be any who haue cōtinued or revived their dānable heresies, they wil not ap­proue that of Chalcedon, but only such as went before it. What such in Polonia & Hungary do, as speake against the Trinity, & therefore are rather to be called Antitrinitarij then Trinitaries, [...]it mattereth not to vs. We disclaime thē, we abominate thē, we ex­ecrate thē, as we do the Eutychians & Nestorians, & al other he­retiks. Neither do we ioine with the Greekes in all things as you know, although some of their doctrins we prefer before those of the Church of Rome. And therefore most ridiculously & vnfit­tingly do you close vp your Chapter, Behold the liberty of your Gos­pell, when here are none named, the Lutheranes excepted, vvith whom we haue ought to do. And for our liberty in the Gospel, of reiecting such vnwarrātable stuffe, as Image-worshipping, Trā ­substantiatiō & the like, maintained by your heretical meetings, we learne it of Gal: [...]8: 9: S. Paul, who hath taught vs not only that if a mā, but if an Angel frō heavē bring any other doctrin, thē is in gods word, let him be accursed. And we being sufficiētly informed by Gods word, that we are not to be inthralled to the beggerly Colos: 2: 20 tra­ditiōs of mē, do purpose by the assistance of the Lords heavenly grace to Galat. 5: 1. stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made vs free. VVee accept therefore of this Christian freedome, but Liber­tine-like licentiousnesse vvee leaue vnto you. And so for a [Page 354] litle while I dismisse you, with this remembrance, that what you say of the Coūcels accepted or excepted against, by the Greeks, the Lutheranes, the Eutychians, the Nestorians, and the Trini­tarians, both for the matter and quotations you borrow frō Car­dinall Coacil: l. 1. cap: 5. Bellarmine.

12 TO notifie then the iudgement of our Church concer­ning Coūcels; certainly we do hold them being right­ly & lawfully assembled & proceeded in, to be great blessings frō God, & notable meanes to remoue schismes & to extirpate heresies. Thus we are taught by the example of the Apostles [...] cō ­gregating [...] Act. 15: 6. thēselues togither, and by the fruite which some such meetings had in the Primitiue Church. Yea we do like of that sentence of blessed Constantine after the Nicene Councel, who [...] said that the decree of keeping Easter by al vniformly, and not [...] Euseb de vita Const lib: 3: 18: by some after the fashion of the Iews, was to be imbraced at the gift of God, & as if it had bin a cōmandement sent downe from heaven, For saith hee whatsoever is decreed in the holy Councels of Bi­shops, that all ought to be attributed to the will of God. Marke hee saith not generally in the Councels of Bishops, nor in the Coūcels of holy Bi­shops, for even such may erre: but in the holy Councels of Bishops, that is in such as wherin men do holily conforme thēselues vnto the Scripture of truth, & go no farther thē God is their guid. Such as come without humane preiudice, are zealous of truth, earnest in praier for it, diligent in searching it out, & hūble to yeeld & con­forme thēselues to it. Such were the first general Coūcels where men did look to the load-star of the word, & therefore they are accepted of vs. Yet so, that we do not esteeme thē as the sacred Oracles of God, equivalent to the Scripture, or of equal authen­tical force; but as the definitions of Godly men out of the word; & so that they giue no vertue to the old & new Test. but take al that which Coūcels haue, frō them, & therfore as takers and not givers, are inferior to them. We do therefore hold that speech of Gregory to be hyperbolically vttered, & not litterally iustifiable, I Greg: li: 1: Epistol: 24. confesse that I doe receiue & reverence, as the foure books of the Gos­pell, so the foure Councels. And again. And Li: 2: Epist 49. wee doe so receiue the foure Synodes of the holye Universall Church, as the foure bookes of the holy [Page 355] Gospell. If it be flatly and directly taken, it is a hard and vnfit say­ing, & it is wel, that it is but one Doctors opiniō, since the words of men, yea of all the world put togither cannot be ballanced in equall waight, with the immediate word of God, which is so di­rectly inspired by the holy Ghost. A sweet childe the while was our Campian, Ration: 4: who would take on him to proue, that the rest of the Synods, & namely that of Trent was of the same authority with those foure first, and so consequently all as powerfull as the Gospels. By which reconing wee should not only haue a fifth Gospell of Nicodemus, or some such counterfeit, but eighteene Gospels more besides the foure Evāgelists, & so our Bibles now will grow so big, that one volume wil not hold thē. What a wrōg did that prowde and arrogant Iesuite to the Scripture, when hee durst write on that fashion? we dare not so far dignifie or rather magnifie the best Councels (after that in the Apostles time) for feare of blasphemy. But if we shall compare the better with the worser, the weaker with the stronger, we shall see that we are not to far to leane on such assemblies, least by attributing over much to such confluences, we sometimes take error for verity. For haue there not bin meetings which haue concluded against the truth, & yet haue caryed a goodly shew too? I wil not insist on Provin­ciall Councels, as that of Inter ope­ra Cyptiā. A frike, where Cyprian & the rest cō ­cluded for rebaptising of those which were baptised by heretiks, or that of Soc. 1: 21. Tyrus which proceeded against Athanasius being in­nocēt, or that of Lib: 2: 7. Antioch, as also of cap. 25. Sirmiū both which decreed for the Arrians, against the faith of Consubstantiality in Christ with his Father. I will rather stand on those who go for generall, as that of Sardis in part reiected by In Indice conciliorū. Possevinus, that of Milaine where were 300. Bishops ioyning for Arrianisme, that of Selētia being gathered to the same purpose. Here may you finde more general Synods making for the Arrians while they were in anye strength, then making against them.

13 Lay to these the Great Councell of Ariminum, vvhere vvere sixe hundred Bishoppes mainetaining and decreeing for the opinion of Arius, and the authoritye vvhereof seemed to bee so greate, and vvas so farre vrged, that Saint Augustine himselfe had beene everborne vvith it, had hee not beene for­ced [Page 356] to flie to the Scriptures, which were and are the touch-stone to trye Councels by. The place which he hath to that purpose is famous, Aug con­tra Maxim. Arrian E­piscop. l. 3: But now neither shoulde I produce the Nicene Councell, nor thou that of Ariminum as meaning to extoll it. Neither am I helde vvith the authoritie of the one, nor thou vvith the other. VVith authorities of Scriptures, vvhich are vvitnesses not proper to either, but common to both, let matter contend with matter, cause vvith cause, rea­son with reason. Both of vs doe reade, That vvee may be in his true sonne Iesus Christ, He is very God & life eternal, Let both of vs yeeld to waight of so great moment. These are the words of the same S. Austē, who els-where had said, Epist: 118: The authority of Plenary Coūcels is most whole­some in the Church. Very whole some while they keepe right with the verity of Christ, but whē they fal frō that, they are otherwise. But S. Austē was never of opiniō to atrribute too much to Coū ­cels: for he was not so simple but that he saw there were or might be many imperfectiōs in thē, yea in the best of thē. It is a worthy testimony which he gives in this behalf, whē he was pressed with the authority of Cypriā & the Africane Coūcel. De Bap­ [...]ismo cōtr: Donaust: lib. 2. 3. The sacred Scrip­ture saith he is not at alto be doubted or desputed of. The letters of Bi­shops writē since the Scripture if there be any errour in thē may be repre­hēded by the wiser speech of any one who is more skilful in that matter, & by the graver authority of other Bishops, & by the wisedome of the more learned, & by Councels. And who knoweth not that Provincial Councels without any sticking do yeeld to the authority of plenary Councels, which are gathered out of the whole Christian world, yea & that oftentimes the former Plenary Coūcels are amended by the later, when by any experiēce of things, that is opened which was shut, & known which did lye hid, with­out any vanity of sacrilegious pride, without any puffed necke of arrogācy, without any contention of malicious envy, with holy humility, with Catho­like peace, with Christian charity. And some part of this he cōfirmeth againe afterward, Among after-cōmers, the later Coūcels are prefer­red Cap. 9. before the former, & the whole evermore by very good right is estee­med before the parts. Wel thē by Austens sentēce, evē General coū ­cels may be amēded & altered: therfore they may erre, or come to short. Which wil the better appeere if we remēber that some­times one Councel is directly contrary to another, as that of Ari­minum to the former of Nice, that of Franckforde touching [Page 357] Images, to the later at Nice, those of Constance & Basile in the subiecting of the Pope to the Councel, to those of Florence and Trent, the 2. at Ephesus approving Eutyches, to that of Chalce­dō which cōdēned him. Yea the Socrat. 2. 16. Coūcel of Sardis against it self, whē the Easterne Bishops were for Arrianisme, the Westerne a­gainst it, whervpō they devided thēselves in place as wel as in o­piniō. It were thē a hard matter in an vnavoidable cōtrariety or rather cōtradictiō, to have both sorts of Coūcels allowed, the af­firmer & the denier: & therfore simply, absolutly & of thēselues they are not to be held for sufficient cōfirmers of that which we must beleeve. It may bee added as another singular exception a­gainst Coūcels, that most of thē are hādled with such irregulari­ties, that it is not only probable that they may swarve, but likely that they wil, since even the best men, & to the best Coūcels do come so laden with passions, affections, humours & partialities, that they wil not or cannot see the truth. One of the most mo­derate of all the Popish Councels was that of Basile, & yet what turbulētnes doth De Concil. Basilcens. Aeneas Sylvius witnes there to haue bin? He therfore in that argumēt is rather to be reade, thē that which cō ­mōly goeth for the Coūcel of Basile, as In Indice falcic: re­rum expet. & fugiend. Orthuinus Gratius wel observeth, for in Aeneas who was present at that meeting, and saw and recorded all the manner of it, a man may find the order or disorder of it so described, that he may imagine himselfe to be­hold the Fathers there assembled sitting in their Pōtificalibus. If we would haue an exāple of this in an olde Synode, let it be the Coūcel of Socrat. 7. 33. Ephesus, which is one of the foure Oecumenical great ones. For there was not onely a clamourous division for a good space betweene Cyril Bishop of Alexandria, & the other Ortho­doxe Bishops on the one side, and Nestorius with his hereticall Prelats on the other side, eche maintaining their faction, & pro­ceeding to deprive eche other of their Bishoprikes, but Iohn Bi­shop of Antioch although Catholikein opiniō, groweth out with Cyril also, that he had fel to sentencing Nestorius before Iohns cōming, whervpō Cyril ioyning with him Iuvenal the Bishop of Hierusalem, proceedeth to deprive Iohn also of his Bishoprike. But afterward Iohn returning to Antioch, & callīg to him many Bish. falleth to the deprivatio of Cyril who was now returned to [Page 358] Alexandria. And that these and the like tumultuous fashions were not rarely but commonly vsed in other Councels, we need no better witnesse then Gregory Epist: 55: Nazianzen, whose wordes touching this matter are these, I am of this [...]nde, of I must write that which is truth, that I doe flie all Councels of Bishops, because no mā yet could ever see ende of Synode to any profit, and whereby things which were ill were not more exacerbated then cured. For there is in them such a desire of contention, and such an ambition of dominering (doe not thinke me to write these things odiously and vnreasonably in this manner) and they are so impossible to be overcome in disputation, that if one will deale iudiciously with them, hee shall sooner bee helde guilty of some other evill then convince and cleere that which is theirs. This is the sentence of him who was very wise and learned, and in whose time diverse Synodes were aslembled, so that he might speake vpon sounde experience. Thus men are, and ever haue beene men, and where such faction, contention, emulation, ambition, malice, bit­ternes is, may it not be well presumed, that the sacred Spirite of God in respect of any immediate and extraordinary influence of truth, may as well be absent as present? What then can cer­tainely and warrantably be grounded herevpon?

14 If this yet doe not satisfie, wil you heare the reasons of one, whom by his owne words you may thinke to be a Calvinist, and yet he was what he was, long before Luther was borne. This par­tye whom I produce is the Arch-deacon Nicolaus de Clemangijs, who taketh on him to dispute whether in matters of fact a gene­rall Councell may [...]rre or no? For that it cannot erre in matters of faith or rather that it cannot finally faile wee are saith he, to beleeue. But let the Readeriudge, whether hee doe not pointe shrewdly at that erring also, and whether his reasons beat not as fully to that, as to the other. I must drawe into a narower roome, that which he vttereth more at large, but yet so as to keepe his owne words, Disputat. super mate­ria Conci­lior gene­ral [...]n. Bee all Generall Councels of equall authority? If they be, why doth Gregorie so honour the fowre first, [...] the fowre Gospels? For by singling out those fowre, he leaveth in mens mindes a doubtfull suspici­on of the rest If a Councel cannot erre, how may that rule of the Lawyers be vnderstood, that the Militant Church oftentimes doeth deceiue and is deceived? And how doth the Militant Church and triumphant in [Page 359] this point differ, if both of them be in all points infallible [...] is not the Church assembled in the Councell, a passenger and a pilgrime [...] if it be, then it is in the state of deserving ill or well, and may doe right or otherwise. That the Church cannot faile in faith, we haue a testimonie from Christ, Peter I haue praied for thee that thy faith faile not, but for other things I remem ber no such lesson. For that out of the Gospell convinceth little, where two or three are gathered togither in my name, there am I in the middle of them. For they may be deceived amonge whom Christ is. Iohn the Bap­tist said of him to the Pharisees, He was among you, and yet they vvere deceived, and he was among the Iewes when he was crucified and spit vp­on. And what madde man will say, that they could not be deceived? A­gaine of what assistance of Christ is that to be vnderstoode, if of his assi­stance by the presence of his divinitie, that is every where, and is nothing to this matter. If of the assistance by his grace, howe will it followe that where two or three come togither to confer about the peace of the Church or any other good, Gods grace should presently br infused in them, whē be­fore they haue perhaps committed many sinnes where of they haue nether had compunction nor made confession. For thus some doe come togither, and either so presently with the comming their sinnes are blotted out, or else it is not necessarie that they should haue grace infused. But suppose they haue grace, will that make them that they cannot sinne, that they cannot goe awry by ignorance, or by some passion blinding them? Grace moueth to doe well, but doth not inforce or put in an inevitable necessity. If you vnderstand it of assistance by direction inwardly, that is given only to holy men who are filled with the spirit. Againe, Councels many times are gathered to alay schismes between Popes, & to make peace in the Church vvhieh perhaps God hath so interrupted, that hee may doe good to the Church, to purge it from pride, covetonsues, vanity, simony. Now it com­meth not from Christ, that men should desire only the externall peace of the Church, for so doe many carnall men at this day, that themselues li­ving in idlenesse and rest, they may freely serue their owne wils. And who will say that these are gathered in the name of Christ, who for this ende seeke the vnity of the Church? Yet of these there are so many as are scant to be numbred; carnall children of the Church, who care for nothing that is spirituall, may persecute those who are after the spirite, Such as for tē ­peral things come to the Church, hypocrites, eaters vp of Christ crucified, and of these is the Church so full, that in Chapters or Colledges you can [Page 360] hardly finde other. And of these as being the wisest fellowes are those who are sent to Rome & Princes Courtes, to generall Councels, & these vpō hope of greater promotion doe labor that they may be sent. And are these such who will come to reforme the Church, who only desire that freely thē selues may do what they list. But before peace & iustice can be there must be such are formation in the Church. He that seeketh outward peace be­fore spiritual peace, doth as if he should build a house without a foundatiō. They who were assembled at the Councell of Pisa, said they had broughte peace to the Church, and gaue it out to the world, when there was no such matter. Do you thinke then whither they were deceived or not? and so a Councell may be deceivid. The holy Ghost directeth thē who haue fitted themselues as aledging to intertaine him by good workes. But how should he visite them who thwarte the spirite, and seeke to extinguish him in o­ther men? which in steede of the fire of charity are inflamed with the heat of ambition? These will heare nothing which is contrary to their own lust, and taste nothing of spirituall giftes, and come with a false hart to handle Gods businesses, seeking those thinges vvhich are their evvne and not Gods, which if Paule coulde say of his time, we may much more say of the dregs of our daies. With such the holye Ghost is not: and such stubborne ones woulde not yeelde to the motions thereof. Now if the Spirit bee not with such, and the greatest part of Councels consist of such, and there the Decrees are made by the maiour parte of voices, may not Councels erre? I speake not this of the present Councell at Basile, for there I heare mante good thinges are handled: but yet I heare there bee many things there vvhich shoulds not bee, contentions, emulations, heart-bur­nings, clamours which the Spirite doeth not desire. There had neede be good men sent to Councels, that God may bee amonge them. The an­cient Fathers did vse vvith praying, fasting and vveeping to begge at Gods hande, that his Spirite mighte bee present at Councels amonge them, to direct them, which they needed not to haue done, if they ware sure that hee coulde not bee absent. UUee reade in the Scripture that for one mans sinne, an armie of Gods freindes hath beene overthrowne. One sicke sheepe infecteth a vvhole flocke. And since on one mans sen­tence or voice, the vvhole assemblie dependeth, may not he both be de­ceived and deceiue a vvhole Councell? To doe all thinges vvell and never to erra is onelye the parte of GOD; but the vvorlde knovveth that men are not Gods, not Angels, but such as of vvhome it is saide. [Page 361] All men are lyers. They are subiect to passions and ignoraunces, which overtake men the more, when by vaine pride they vvoulde put them from them. If you saie that it resteth not on humane infirmitie, but it is of the povver of the holye Ghost, that the Councell cannot bee deceived, vvho is certaine that vvith the maiour parte of the Councell vvhich must preponderate, the holye Ghost is present? If you sa [...]e it is likelye the spirite is in some sevve, and they may vvorke the rest to the right, what if the multitude haue deserved to be deceived? So Micheas could doe no good on all Achabs Prophets. And who knoweth whither the maiour parte of the Councell bee vvorthie to bee deceived or no? God in Ieremie did for sake the temple vvherein the levves did trust, and hee badde the Prophet that hee shoulde not pray for them, for he would not heare him. Therefore good mens praiers doe not alvvaies obtaine for the wicked. Yea but hee hath promised to bee vvith his Church to the ende of the vvorlde. But hee alone knovveth vvho they are that haue grace in his Church. The Lorde knovveth vvho, are his. The Church by grace may remaine in one onelye vvoman, as in the time of the passion it did onelye in the Uirgin Marie. Shall a Councell now bee of greater authoritye then all the Apostles vvere? And yet they all declined at Christes death, and vvere afraide. Shall is bee greater then all the militant Church, of vvhich Augustine saide that heere it cannot bee vvithout spotte or vvrinckle, but in the nevv Hierusalem it must be. What should be the reason that the foure first Coūcels specially be in such estimation with all, but that there were better men, then sinca haue bin, & they framed thēselues to aske what the spirit was willing vn­to? These late ones are Coūcels of blend, & assemble about such things as flesh & bloud only would haue them. Then he telleth the tale how at Rome in a Councell a little before gathered by Iohn the 24. an Owle appeared looking directly vpō the Pope, to the amasemēt of some to the great scorne of other. Then he proceedeth, By the vnworthines of the head or the maior part, the Coūcel may misse of a good end other such causes there may be, as too much listning to tēporal peace, or too much presūptrē of their own grace & wisdome, or negligence of loo­king into the word of God. It is good therfore that they who meete in such assemblies be not too bold. In another Tract. pri­ore de ma­teria Conc. Generalis. treatise of this same argumēt, he had warned before, that men should not say as of likelyhood some did, Wee are a Generall Councell, let vs goe to it boldelye, vv [...] [Page 362] cannot erre. What Papist will not think that this man in the mat­ter of Coūcels is more a Calvinist thē Calvin himselfe. Let these reasons be well waighed, and then iudge whither too much bee to be attributed to Councels, besids those flawa & cracks which I formerly mentioned, as who are to call Councels, who are to haue voices in Councels, whither the Pope be to be subiected to a Councell or no, which the Pope and all his flatterers can­not endure.

15 He who list to knowe more of the Popes challenge touch­ing his owne calling and overbalancing Councels, let him looke the censure of Hist. Hussit l. 9: Cochleus vpon the Synode at Basile. There hee affirmeth that assembly to be but a Conciliable or Conventicle, af­ter that Pope Eugenius had given out his summons, that hee woulde haue that meeting to bee removed to Ferrara first, but afterward to Florence, else there had beene at one time two ge­neral Councels, and consequently two Churches. Also, that the fathers at Basile with their Antipape Felix, were for eight yeares in a schisme against Eugenius, and yet they gaue out that they had the holy Ghost among them. That to call a Councell, by ancient right belongeth to the Bishop of Rome. That it pertay­neth not to sheepe to iudge their shepheard. But Eugenius him­selfe with more maiesty and Pope-like state could say, Ibidem. To that robbery at Basill, all the Divels of the world doe seeme to haue come to­gither. To these bracks about Councels, this one farther may be ioyned, that they say a Councell is not good, vnlesse the Pope confirme it. For now how shall we know whether a Synode bee confirmed or no, vnlesse there be some Bull or Decree publish­ed concerning that particular, since In Iudice Concilio [...] Possevinus the Iesuit in re­koning vp the Councels, nameth foure at A [...]les, one at Laodi­cea, fiue at Orleans, and divers other, which he saith are of greate authority, for although an open confirmation of them be not founde, yet they are allowed of by a secret consent of the Church, and the Popes and Doctors citing them. This is a point which may breede great diffi­culty, whither that be inough to ratifie a Synode or no. Also it were good that before we make Coūcels a matter of beliefe, we were assured that we haue none, but those which are right in the whole, and in the parts. For Actes of Councels haue bin much [Page 363] falsified, as it is alleadged in the sixt Generall Councell holden at Constantinople, Action. 14 that some had falsified the Actes of the fifth Ge­nerall Councel holden in the same place, as was apparantly deprehended. How those in Afrike did cōplaine of the Popes forsting in some­what to the first Nicene Synode, I haue shewed before; and how the Councell sent to Nice it selfe to see the Originall. But in the same manner hath the Pope complained, that other haue also falsified the Actes of the same Councell. For Felix Bishop of Rome himselfe hath made this Decree, In Decre­tis felicis Papae. In Concilijs. Let the persons of the ac­cusers be without all suspicion, because by reason of the molestations offe­red by evill men, this was defined in the Nicene Councell by all, although by the falshoode of lewde persons, these and many other things are blotted out. We then had neede to take heede, that wee do: not beleeue those things as certaine, which of themselues are so vncertaine. Let Papists doe it if they wil. Lastly before I shut vp this Chapter it is not amisse to know, that it is not for the ancient Synods that the Romanists doe striue, but for those which lately were helde, wherein their Pope bore much sway, and their Popery was esta­blished by fragments. For out of the old Councels both Provin­ciall and Vniversall, there are many matters contrary to their definitions. As in the thirde Councel at Carthage there is much spoken concerning the children of Priests, which sheweth that Priests then were ordinarily marryed. And there it is that the Pope should not be called the Prince of Priests or chiefe Priest. In the Elibertine Councell is a flat decree against Images in Chur­ches, It Canon 36 pleaseth vs that pictures should not be in the Churches, least that which is worshipped or adored, should be painted on wals. In the fifth In epistol. felicis. Councell at Constantinople, by an Epistle of Pope Felix to Zeno, it is shewed that the Church is built on the confession of Peter, not on his person or place. In the ninth Councel of Canon. 1. To­ledo, if a Metropolitane defraude the Church, complaint thereof is to be made to the king, which sheweth that Princes then had to do with persons and causes Ecclesiasticall. Very many more such instances may be brought, how the old Councels knew no­thing of that hart of Popery, which since hath growne vp, by the connivence of some Princes, the weaknes of other, and the nota­ble cunning of Antichrist. And for times now long agone the [Page 364] extravagancie and transcendencie of the Roman Bishops pow­er is no where knowne. For in the Nicene Canon. 6 Councell, the Bi­shop of Alexandria in his Province, and the Patriarke of Anti­och in his, haue as much iurisdiction as the Pope hath in his. In the Isidor in praefat. Cō ­cil. Ephesin. Ephesine Synode Cyrill of Alexandria was president, and not the Bishoppe of Rome, and there it is saide that In epistol. ad Nestoriū Peter and Iohn were each to other of equall dignitie, because they were Apostles and holie disciples, which overthroweth the Primacie of the Ro­mane Bishoppe deriving his prerogatiue only from Peters pre­eminence. And in the Councell of Canon. 1. Chalcedon all is confirmed which was decreed before in other Synodes. Thus the Pope and Papists should gaine much by sending vs to looke into the most ancient Councels.

THE Catholike Romane religion is most plainely taught by all the ancient Fathers of the first, second, thirde, fourth, fift and sixt hun­dred yeares after Christ, and hath beene ever (vvithout all controversie) taught of the Fathers of everie age since vntill this day. That religion did Diony sius Areopagita, S. Paule his scholer so manifestly teach as Causaeus a French Protestant called him for his labour a doating old Causaeus Dial. 5. & 11. In capt: Ba­bilonica. man, much like as his father Luther had said before him that Areopa­gita his workes were like to dreames and most pernicious. The same faith vvas taught of Saint Ignatius, Clemens, Iustinus, Tertullian, Cy­prian, Irenaeus, and in one vvord all the anncient Fathers not one ex­cepted.

WHen Thomas Pilcher sometimes an vn­worthy fellow of a Colledge in Oxford, but afterward an vnlearned Priest of the Seminary, after pardon once given him for his life, and beeing exiled from his Countrey, returned againe into Eng­lande to pervert the subiectes of her late Maiestie, he vvas by arrest of lawe to be brought to execution, vvhere, as I haue heard, being remembred by an intelligent person that he should bee well advised what the right or wronge of the cause was, for which hee did suffer, his reply was, that if hee were in an errour, then Irenaeus and Iustine Martyr, Tertullian and Origene, La­ctantius, Hilary, Chrysostome, Ambrose, Hierome, Austen, Gre­gorie, Bearnarde, and all other the olde Fathers of the Primitiue Church, vvere mightily deceived: for what he held they taught. The silye man had much adoe to learne the names of all these, but for reading any of them, or for knowing what they vvrote, there bee many yet living, who dare safely giue their word, that he good man was never troubled with it. This is the very case of the greatest part of you Papists: you wil speak without the book, and make good little of that which you say: but yet for lacke of chalenging & facing it out, you will loose nothing of antiquity. And among al your copes-mates, as one that knoweth least, and therfore dareth to say most, you lay about you here for al & al a­gaine. You are now come to your selfe, revested with your olde spirite, and therefore wee will looke for a legion of Vniver­sals at your handes. The vn-Catholike Romane Religion, it is Pa­pistry which you meane, is not onely taught, or plainly taught, but most plainelie taughte, not by some, but by all the ancient Fathers of the first sixe ages after Christ, and hath beene not sometimes but ever, not doubtingly but without all controversie taught of the Fathers of each age vntill this day. If you had a fore-heade lefte, and knevve vvhat you did saye, vvhich I thinke [Page 366] you doe not, but onely take vp this speech on the word of other men, you would blush a whole yeare togither at this your owne absurdity, and by that time woulde this rubour bee so setled in your face, that it would never out. For, that I may plucke you a little backe by the sleeue, doth Saint Augustine, and, Orosius, & Fulgentius, and Bernard, where they of purpose handle the ar­gument, teach as you do teach cōcerning the freenesse of Gods grace every way, and touching free will? In pref. 1. 5 Bibli. Sāct Sixtus Senensis shall condemne you, who reiecteth Saint Augustines doctrine in that behalfe. Doe Lactantius and Ephiphanius say as you say con­cerning Images? Doe Clemens Alexandrinus, and Basile, and Gregory Nazianzen, and Chrysostome ioine with you in prohibiting the mariage of the Clergy? Is Theodoret youre in the matter of Transubstantiation, when hee who in the end of his Post Epi­phan The. Dialog. Dialogues writeth the Admonition to the Reader, is enforced though hee bee a Papist, to confesse, that hee hath many things against it. Are Tertullian and Saint Augustine of your minde when they expounde This is my body, to meane but the signe or figure of his body? Is Saint Ambrose yours about praying to Saintes? Is Cyprian, yea Gregory himselfe of your iudgement, about the supremacie of Peter and of the Pope? A­mongst a hundred examples I doe but touch these things, as ha­ving occasion else-where more largely to handle every one of these points. So litle account do you make of truth, being either spurred to it by ignoraunce, or blinded with maliciousnes, both which in you are wonderfully desirous to vpholde your drow­ping cause.

2 That Causaeus or Luther doe brande your Dionysius Areo­pagita for a counterfeit, and speake of him accordingly, we doe not marveile. There was one of that name indeede, an Act. 17. 34. auditor of S. Paule, but these bookes fastened on him, are not worthy of his person. What is there in them all which savoureth of a man taught by an Apostolicall spirit? S. Paule was facile in his vvri­ting, that the multitude might vnderstand his maine drift every where: this is so obscure that nothing can be darker. S. Paules words were for edification: this is full of vaine curiosity, taking on him to describe every angle and office in heaven. Sainte [Page 367] Col. 2. 18 Paule rebuked those who meddling with the worshipping of Angels, did advance themselues in those things which they ne­ver saw: this fellow speaketh of the Angels as if he had been set to take the muster and view of them single from one end of hea­ven to the other. But his booke De divinis Nominibies doth much display him for a counter feit. For as it may bee well questioned in him, how he could cite the Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans, which was Eue Eccl. hist. li. 3. 30. written but a little before the death of Ignatius; & he was martyred in the time of Traiane [...] whereas Dionysius was a man of that age, that long before Saint Pauls death vnder Ne­ro hee was a Senatour of Act 17 34: Athens, or one of their iudges in the streete of Mars: so it cannot be excused that he De divinis nominibus. citeth Clemēt the Philosopher, which being Clemens Alexandrinus did liue almost two hundred yeares after Christ, and therefore this Dio­nysius citing him was not like to bee the hearer of the Apostle Paule. Now in the eight booke of his Stromata, Clemens indeed doth shew himselfe a Philosopher, yea if you will a Logician, talking of the Predicaments, and naming Relatiues, which is the point for the which this forged Dionysius citeth him. Againe, this booke is dedicated to Timothy Bishop of Ephesus, who be­ing so long a scholer and fellow traveiler with S. Paule, needed not so meane a man, & in so barbarous a fashion to instruct him in those things which this sweete Authour pretendeth. Besides this, if there had beene such an Authour of any worth or name, some of the ancient writers would haue given him some credite, and sometimes haue mencioned him. Eusebius letteth not any man scape who was ought, or left any monument to the church. Notwithstanding he hath not any worde of this Dionysius. S. Hierome came after him, and wrote a Catalog. scripto. Ec­clesiastico. treatise purposely of such as before his daies, left any bookes to posterity, where neverthe­lesse the hame of this Dionysius is not to be found. And so much doth Lib. 6. Bib. Annot 229. Sixtus Senensis himselfe obserue, who also Lib. 2. elsewhere tel­leth vs, that Cardinal Caietane in his Commentaries on the Acts as also on the thirde of Kings excepteth against this Dionysius, as vnworthy of all credite. There is another treatise in the name of De caelesti Hierarchia. Dionysius which recordeth to vs in particular 9. several or­ders of Angels. If such a tract had bin known amōg the anciēt, or [Page 368] had beene of any reputation vvith them, some or other of the olde Fathers speaking of Angels, vpon iust occasion would haue named either it, or the authour, or the matter of it. Haeres. 64 Epiphanius saith that there are more degrees of Angels then one, but howe many hee nameth not. To the same purpose speaketh In Ps. 118. Hilary; but he hath no fixed number. Dialog: 1. Caesarius the brother of Grego­ry Nazianzen saith that there be seaven orders of Angels. Saint Eucharid. ad Lauren. ca. 58. Austen as wise & learned a man as he was, yet professeth that he knoweth not, what Sedes, & Dominationes, et principatus (word [...] by some expounded to bee severall sortes of Angels) do mean. If he had seene that worke of Dionysius, he might haue helped his ignorance; for he describeth thē to an inch, if we will beleeue him. In another place the same Ad Orosi­um contr. Priscilliā & origenistas Austen writeth thus of himself; That th [...]re be these Seates, or Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, Powers in the heavenly furnitures, I doe most firmely beleeue, and with an vndoubted faith I doe held that they doe somewhat differ between themselues. But to the ende that you may thinke meanly of me whom you repute to be a great Doctour, what these [...]ee and how they differ amonge themselues I know not. But perhaps it may be obiected that In Questi­onibus. Atha­nasius, yea and out of Dionysius, saith that there bee nine orders of Angels. I answere, first that indeede he nameth one Dionysi­us, & attributeth to him the title of a Divine, but he calleth him, not Areopagita, and therefore hee may meane some other later fellow. Secondly, the treatise containing this, is expunged out of the workes of Athanasius, and put among those that are held to be forged; so that here but one lyer doth speake for another, and then their rewarde is that neither of them ought to be beleeved. Thirdly it agreeth not with an vndoubted place of De cōmu­ni essent. patris. filij & spi. sanct. Athanasius, for there he rather seemeth to make fiue sorts of Angels, & that with offices differing frō those of Dionysius, as, those that teach, those that permit thinges to bee done, those that punish, those that gratifie souls, and those who remaine with men. Afterward indeede hee mencioneth Thrones, & Cherubins and Seraphins. So that the first who beeing himselfe of any estimation mencio­neth Denis, is Gregory the Greate, who in Moral: lib: 32. 18: one place saith that there bee nine orders of Angels, but not a word hath he of Dio­nysius. And in a In 1. King 14. second place, so much hee doth and no more. [Page 369] But in a Homil 34 in quadra­ [...] [...]. third he not only hath these distinctiōs of Angels, but he alleageth for it Dionysius also, & that by the name of Areo­pagita, callīg him an anciēt & venerable Father. But this is a sin­gle testimony, & al other of more antiquity make against him; & he may be supposed to do it doubtfully, since naming the matter thrise he speaketh of Denis but once. And moreover Gregory li­ved 600. yeares after Christ, by which time this bastard might be a hūdred or two hūdred yeare old, & with some might be estee­med authentical, which Gregory might take vp frō thē without farther examinatiō. He who list to see this Denis farther discove­red, & quite discarded, let him look that noble Lib. [...]: Mo [...]ney, writīg touching the Masse, & if he be not impudētly refractary, he shall be silēced in this point for ever. Thus you are like to make good work with your Fathers, when the first of your tale is fil [...] populi, a bastard seed which cannot inherite. What you say of Ignatius, Clemēs, Iust [...], Tertulliā, Cypr [...], Ir [...]us, & all the Fathers is a vain, Popish, & Pilcher-like bragge, which is ordinary with such cra­kers as you are, & till you cite some particular, deserveth no an­swere but to be denied. If you meant truely to your Readers, you would cite them somewhat for their mony.

THis is very plaine in that the Cath [...] are put, & compelled by the Protestants to defend, [...] & vp [...]la the [...]dit & authority of th [...] said Fathers: for the Protestantes raile as them, the Catholikes de­fend them; the Protestants refuse their authority, the Catholikes holde i [...] for [...] the Protestants will not be [...]yed by them: the Catholikes appeal [...] to their iudgement; and to be b [...]fe, the Protestants make no more ac­ [...]te of them, longer then they can wrest them to serue their [...] th [...] they d [...] of Bevis of Southampton, or of Adam Bell. And in [...] the Protestantes, I include all the Puri [...]es; for I am not ignor [...] how the s [...] Protestants are driven by the said Puritan [...] to defende th [...] Fathers, and also are called Papistes for their labour. And [...]re by i [...] i [...] [...]fest that the Fathers are with the Catholikes, and [...]her [...] the Protests [...]r [...]. And vvhither all th [...] [...], be­ing men of exce [...] wits, of [...], of [...]rfull l [...]ing, [Page 370] servent in praier, holy in conversation, greatly in Gods favour, mighty in working of miracles, and adorned with many such like giftes vvere more like to vnderstands the Scriptures freshlie delivered vnto them from the Apostles thēselues (who also no doubt taught their scholors the true sence thereof, and they theirs from one age to another) or these late foolishe, vnstudied, vnlearned, prophane and arregant fellowes, bee iudges your selues.

3 TILL you came to this Period you spake something of your owne peradventure, but now you are apparantly become but evē a plaine trūke to cary along what your M. Motiv: 14: Bristow putteth into you: frōstealing out of whose booke, you cannot cōtaine, if your hands were boūd behind you. If hee then lash & lye, you thinke you may do so also, as lying safe vn­der his shilde. But his target is no thicke one, as that [...]vid Me­ [...]amorph Lib: 13: sevē-folde buckler of A [...]ax was, but made of thinne browne paper, & ther­fore wil not beare out one blowe. I pray you, where are you for­ced to vphold the Fathers credite against the Protestants railing at thē? or who of the Protestants be they, that give them not the same right, which God would haue to be givē vnto thē, or which they thēselues desired should be allotted vnto their writīgs? We hold them & their labours to be great instruments of the setting forth of Gods glory, & we esteeme it as a good blessing frō aboue, that the Lord hath left their labors as monuments to his church, wherein we not only know what was done & taught in the first ages of the christiā world, but may be helped also many waies in the vnderstāding of Scriptures, & beating downe of divers here­sies. And our men do study thē, & are as copious & frequent in thē as Papists be, which if you will, you may see, in the bookes of Bishop Iewel, D. Hūfry, D. Folke, Peter Martyr, Chēnicius, yea M. Calvins Institutiōs, to say nothing of divers now livīg. Truth it is, that when our men made the true touch-stōe, & only abso­lute Iudge of cōtroversies to be the Scripture, Harding & his cō ­panions in effect flying frō that, would needes beare the world in hand, that if the triall might be by the Fathers, the victory was [Page 371] certainly theirs. Whervpon in England, (as also in other places before) they who stood for reformation, refusing thē at no wea­pon ioyned with them there, and now as persons of desperate & deplorate misery you haue nothing to helpe you, but by foisting and iugling in chaungelings, vpstarts & counterfeits in steed of vndoubted ones, & by razing and curtolling and clipping the works of those reverend mē, as anone I shal shew you. It is ther­fore a grosse slaūder that we do raile at them, or that we do wrest them. Where there is iust cause, we as men Horat. l. 11 Apistol. 1: Nullius ad [...]icti iurare, in verba magistri, bound to stand to the opinion of none but of the holy Ghost, we declining-wise do leave thē: but where they subscribe to the authority of God, there we subscribe to them, defend them, & refuse not to be tried by them, so farre as we may by any holy & learned men, of which sort we hold them, but yet stil know them to be men. As for Bevis of Southampton, & A­dam bell we hold to be but fictions, such as were devised in the time of Popery, and thought fitte then togither with other Le­gends to be imparted to the people, that when they should ra­ther haue looked into the word of God if they might haue bin suffered, they being busied with such toies, might not grow to be of such Christian vnderstāding, as to espy the idolatries & collu­sions of the Clergy. When a mā who speaketh vntruth cōmeth to examinatiō, his tongue faltereth in his mouth, & his tale cros­seth it selfe. So doth yours, who attempting both to soupe and blow at once, make no bones to speake as good as flat cōtradicti­ons, Simul for­bere & fla­re Era [...]m: in Adage In the one sentence, the Protestante raile at thē, refuse their au­thority, make no more account of thē then of Adam Bel, in the next the Protestants are driven by the Puritanes, to defend the Fathers, & they are called Papists for their labour. So they do defend them, & not defend them. They raile on them, & yet speake for them. This is one of the riddles fit for Terent. in Andrias Oedipus. And yet the Fathers are against both the Protestants & the Puritanes. And why then I request you do the Protestāts so maintaine them? For such dissolute dawbing of paper, you are worthy to be rewarded at least with nothing. It may be said of you, & your maister Bristow, Virgils. Eclog. 3: Et vitula tu dignus & hic. It cannot be denied that some men of learning haue dis­liked the over-much heaping vp of Sentences out of the Fathers, [Page 372] to no purpose or needlessely, & especially if it haue bin done in Latin or Greeke, whē Sermōs are made to the ordinary people in the vulgar tongue. But the iudgmēt of the most iudicious & such as respect the edificatiō of the heaters, wil warrāt this their opini­on, while it disl [...]keth not the vse, but the abuse. But that any mā of learning in our church, or of true accoūt in our state, haue sim­ply cōdc̄ned the vsing of thē, you cānot shew. Some weaker men in a little hum [...]ur haue seemed to bee no great favourets of thē, pa [...]tly because they know them not, as [...] in Ad [...]gijs. Knowledge hath none more eger enemy thē [...] persō, & partly because they haue not lear­ning to vnderstād thē. Also because they wil not be at cost to buy thē, or if these imped [...]ēts were remooved, because they wil not take the paines to read thē. But even such do daily more & more reforme their iudgmēt, & we doubt not but God who hath put the spirit of moderatiō & temperāte into the greatest, wisest, & most learned of such as in times past were otherwise minded, wil loine vs al in one against you & the cōmon enemies of the truth, who in an Italionated & out-landish faction litle care what you do. And so I trust every English mā defiring to keepe himself in spiritual purity, & Iacob [...]. 27 Motiv. 14. vnspotted of the world, & Poperty, the odious names of Puritans & Precisias wherat you haue so triūphed shall to the greefe of your harts be extirpated, & al who loue the Gos­pel ioining in one as Christiās & brethrē shal be dutiful subiects to God & our King. Your conclusion is ridiculous & worthy to be hissed at, The Protestants defend the Fathers against the Pu­ritanes, Ergo the Fathers be against both the Protestants and the Puritanes. This is Logicke of the Popish Seminary.

4 The titles which you heere bestow on the ancient Fathers, Bristow setteth downe thus, [...] 14. excellent wits, continual study, wōder­full learning, servent praier, holy cōversation, favour in Gods sight, migh­ty working of infinite miracles, frō whence & frō the rest, the Reader may iudge, whether you had not Bristowes booke lying before you, whē you skuffled togither this Rhap [...]ody. As for these prai­ses, we neither envy thē nor deny thē to those great lāpes of the first Church, vnlesse it be that of working of miracles, wherof we make a doubt. And by these helps we say that they were wel fur­nished to vnderstand & expound many things in the Scripture, [Page 373] as also somewhat by their neerenesse to the time of the Apostles, in those places especially where truth was kepte without ming­ling. And yet we will you heere to remember that fewe or scant any one of the Fathers had the Scriptures freshly delivered vnto him from the Apostles themselues; you are pitifully out, for di­verse hundreds of yeeres came betweene Christes disciples and the most of the olde Doctours: And againe to call to minde, that soone after the Apostles, yea as Eccl. Hist. Lib 3. 26. Eusebius saith, immediately af­ter their death, heretakes came plentifully in, who laboured what they coulde to corrupt the fountaines, whēce all pure water was to flowe. Remember also that for three hundred yeeres by the extremity of persecutiō, the Pastours were few, & they had little liberty to come togither to conferre about thinges questioned, or to follow their studies so much as they would. And yet farther remēber, that some of thē came late frō the Gentiles as Cyprian, some frō heretiks as Eusebius frō the Arriās, & Austē the Ma­nichees, somefrō meere secular callings as Ambrose, & of al these without Gods special grace they might a little participate. Then he is blīd who seeth not, that they had not al those helps, as these haue, whō you cal late & folish & vnstudied, & vnlearned, profane & arrogāt fellowes. These words you vse, when you Doctour Hill are not worthy to be sorted, with the meanest of a thousand among them, which speech without amplification or any diminution may be iustifyed onely in the present Church of England. For first wee have the writinges of all those Fathers themselves, like to which every private man of them had not, no nor all the world neither before their times. Secondly since their daies there be infinite bookes written which give light to matters in contro­versy. Thirdly our age by meanes of printing hath better facility to come by al bookes thē those ancient times had. Fourthly pro­gres of daies hath made many thīgs plainer to later ages, because they haue bin already fulfilled, thē they could be to former tims, wherin mē did but gesse at thē. Fifthly God hath made the scrip­tures of such sort, as that mēs wits are to be exercised in thē vntil y^e day of iudgmēt, & it belōgeth to that industry which God re­quireth in his servāts, y^e they shold not satisfy thēselues w^t the la­bours of others, & so growidle, bue they shold search farther, & [Page 374] inventis add [...]re. Sixthly the helpe of the tōgues is more rife now, then it was amōg the ordinary sorte of them, as may be seene by Athanasius, who was so stūbled in the Prov. 8. 22 8. Chap. of the Proverbs; the Athanas. in decret. Nicen. Sy­nod. Arriās to prove Christ a creature, vrging thence by the trā ­slatiō of the Septuagint, that it is in the text, [...]. Septuag: The Lord made mee, or created me, the beginning of his waies, to which without difficul­ties, he might easily haue aunswered, if hee had looked into the [...] Hebrew, where it is rather as Hierome readeth it the Lord posses­sed mee, or as Arias Montanus hath it, the Lord got or obtained me. Also Austen had no Hebrew, and both he & Gregory very lit­tle Greek, as els-where I have shewed. Now although it be likely that neerest to the fountaines, the waters runne most cleerely, & the farther of, that we are, they are the more likly to be polluted, yet in spirituall thinges that is not to bee vnderstood of place or time but of keeping close to the original of the writen word, and not varying from it. And so a man furnished by God as Exod. 31: [...]. Bese­leel was to the framing of the Tabernacle, may be by the means aboue named, and by praier, conference & study nothing inferi­our to those first lightes; even as S. Austen was more excellent in some of his expositions on the Scripture then Origene, and some other more ancient then himselfe were, Which as both for him & S. Hierome especially in his Cōmētaries on the Prophets you cānot deny, so it overturneth your reasō that those who were neerest to the Apostles should do best, by taking it fresh frō thē, & so frō hand to hand. For some of the later did not only equall, but farre exceed those who were their fore-runners, as Chryso­stome in the Greeke Church may shewe. Yet vnderstand all this, that we haue no matter of moment in any point of religion, nor scant any interpretation of Scripture, but wee vndertake to advouch it, from some or more of the Fathers, in one place or o­ther of their writings, where they hādle those things. It is Pope­ry which lately crept in, that hath with the Glosses therof, decli­ned both the sēce of the holy Ghost, & of the old Fathers; while the pleasures of Popes & the quiddities of the barbarous school­mē have perverted almost the whole face of Divinity, & brought it to curious speculatiōs, & vnprofitable questiōs. Whē you put it to trial, you shal see that we are not so destitute of the Fathers, [Page 375] for the proofe of our religion, & the exposition of texts, nor so altogither vnstudied, and illiterate as you in your weake vnder­standing imagine vs. Touching the imputation of profanenesse, you shall heare of me heereafter. Luther, in capt. Bap. Causaeus v­bi supra. Centuriat. centur: 2: c: 10. Calvin: in­stit cap: 13▪ num. 29. Centur: 2: cop: 5: Causaeus dialog. 8: & 11 & 6: Bez [...] in Act Apost. cap: 23.

BUT indeede it is no marveile though the Protestants do contēne yea revile the Fathers, in saying they taught thinges most like to dreames, they were doating olde men: they had foule ble­mishes and tolde trifling tales: they had weedes and dregges, blaspemies and monsters: they were childish, dull and destitute of God, and babbled they knew not what: they were bewitched of the Devil, as damned as the Devill, blasphemers, naughtie, wicked.

5 HEere you bring a prety beade-roll of such fragmēts, as you have scraped to gither out of some of our side, who as you thinke haue perstringed diverse of the Fathers, or at least by your perverting or distorting of their wordes, you would haue the world to thinke that they haue shrewdly galled thē. Wherin you are much to be cōmēded, that to make the bet­ter shew both in your text & margēt, you bring vs the same things & quotatiōs againe, out of Causaeus & Luther, which in this very Chap. & but one leafe before you delivered vnto us. This is no rare matter in your writers; for your In Matth. 16: 18: Rhemists play a pretier part then that, when meaning to spare for no cost, to prooue Peter to be such a rocke, ason whō the Church is principall built, they thwacke authority vppon authority to as good purpose as they can. And therfore they haue in the margēt, S. Austen Serm. 26. de Sanctis, and in the text, S. Ambrose, Serm. 68. which are both but one Sermō, put in the workes of both those Fathers, but in truth belonging to neither of thē. Which must needs shew that Papists in their greatest matters doe either proceede idly, or else of purpose they do bodge with their folowers, citīg one for two, as if a man should saye that in Pompeyes time Luc: lib: 3 [...] Plut. in Ce­sar. Iulius broke vp [Page 376] the treasury at Rome, and tooke out much mony, and one Cae­sar about the same time broke open the same treasury, & there­vpon should conclude, that therfore the Treasury was twise for­cibly entred into, when lulius Caesar was al but one man. What Luther spake, was not against a Father but a counterfeit, not a­gainst Dionysius Areopagita, but against some meane fellowe shrowding himselfe vnder his name. In K. Henry the 7. time, a man might wel haue taunted Holinshed in Henri. 7. Perkin Warbeck, & yet not haue offended against the roial bloud in the children of K. Edwarde the 4. And the same is to be said for Causaeus, who is to be ima­gined not to say ought against true Dionysius, but against that doater who vsurpeth that name. Now howe shameful a matter is it for you to bring in these as railing against the Doctors, whē by distinguishing this false one frō those who be right, they do coū ­tenāce the true as much as they discoūtenāce the fained. He who saith that false mony is but brasse or copper, doth not speak evil of the kings lawful & wartantable coine. Your first fault against the Magdeburgenses, is taken out of the second Cap. 10. Century, where being ex instituto, to giue their censure on the writers of that age, they yeeld vnto thē al their due cōmendation, of zeale in Gods cause, of diligēce in preaching & writing, of fortitude in oppug­ning heresies, of enduring martyrdome. They shew also to what points of religiō they do speake, & taking on thē to shew what is amisse in divers of thē, they vse these words, As that the Epistles of Ignatius haue in thē some things which do seeme to incline to defor­med blemishes. You might haue marked that before that speech they haue doubted of the credit & authority of some of those E­pistles, whither they properly belong to Ignatius or no. So in Pa­pias they say there was naevus, a blemish, also that Clemens Alex­andrinus, & Athenagoras had their blemishes. And so of Iustinus Martyr. What word can be more gently spoken then to say they had their blemishes, the truth being so, & in such sort as no Papist can excuse it. For that I may say nothing of divers things foūd in thē, which with you cā be no lesse thē disputable; but with vs are reputed no sound doctrine; neither of some other plaine errours, it is apparant that divers of thē, as Papias, & Iustinus Martyr, did hold the Millinary heresie, & for the same are taxed by the Cen­tury [Page 377] writers. That which you mētiō of trofling tales, if you apply it to thē, is worthy to be laughed at: for they haue no word of anie such matter in all that Chapter, vnlesse you take it out of their narration concerning Phocas, of whō they say, that they passe o­versome things reported by Lib: 10: Vincentius inspeculo, because they seeme to be fables. And what doth this detract frō the Fathers, a­mong whō I trust, you put not Vincentius: & Phocas did vvrite nothing for ought that wee finde. And it is not impossible that such a Legendary felow as Vincentius is, may tel a tale of S. Hie­rom, S. Ambros, or S. Austē, & yet the reputatiō of these Doctors be among learned men never the worse. Of Ireneus the Magde­burgenses say most mildly that he hath certaine inconvenient opini­ons as stubble, & they cite this for one, which I beleeue no sober Papist will hastily mainetaine, that Christ was baptized at thir­ty yeares of age, preached at fortye, and vvas crucified at fif­tye. And that hee helde the errour of the Chiliasts or Mille­naries.

6 The secōd place which you cite out of the Cent: 2: 5: Centuries deser­veth a whoop for there is not one word against any Father, but to cōmend thē, for writing against the Valētinians, Gnostiks, Mat­cionites, Montanists & such like other heretikes. And to the opi­niōs of these heretical sects they giue y^e titles of mōsters, portēts, doa­tings, & such other, as they wel merited. NOW if you of your good­nes wil take these heretiks for Fathers, the Centuriatours speake indeede hardly of such Fathers, for the which, wise men will not blame thē: but if you apply their cēsure cōcerning heretiks to be a railing on the Fathers whō they rather extol, this is such egregi ous ignotance or blindnes or malice, as can scant be cōceived by me, & can never be excused by you. Like to this is your quoting of Calvins Institutions, where you name not the booke, which intendeth that you never sawe him nor reade him. In his foure books there is not any thirteenth Chapter, which hath Paragra­phes or Numbers 29. but only the first booke. And there is no­thing touching this matter, this excepted, Cal. Instit: Lib: 1: c. 13: numer: 29: That nothing is more vnsaverye then those fonde trifles, vvhich are put out vnder the name of Ignatius. Hee yeeldeth his reason for his wordes. And this is not to revile Ignatius, but to reiecte leaden and copper [Page 378] stuffe, which would gladly be shrowded vnder his winge. And if this be to revile the Fathers, almost all both Protestants and Pa­pists, who haue taken any paines to revise and publish the Do­ctours, or to make any Annotations on their writings, doe revile them, for they shewe that many things are crept in among their true workes, which are not worthy to goe vnder their names. As for Causaeus, I cannot yet by any search get sight of the booke, but wee may iudge by that formerly obiected against him con­cerning Dionysius, that if we had the booke, your cavil did con­taine no great matter in truth. And by Calvine and the Century writers before named, we plentifully finde, that you make no cō ­science to abuse and mis-report any mans words, so that thereby you may make some shew with your credulous followers. But if it were so that Causaeus a private man, and of no great reckoning for ought that I have heard, had saide some-thing which coulde not be iustified, the single cōceit of this one mā is not to be held for the iudgement of al the reformed Churches. That which you alleage from Master [...] Beza is a manifest depravation of yours; Beza in Act. cap. 23 for you make that to bee directly and absolutely spoken which is vttered conditionally. If that should bee true in Hierome saieth he, which Erasmus vpon this place hath set downe, he shoulde not only wrong Saint Paule, but should be blasphemous against Christ. He assigneth this for his reason, because hee did search for some take of imperfect piety in Christ. Now who doth doubt but to labour to finde a hole in our Saviours behaviour, and to vvit­nesse of him that any part of sanctitie in him vvas vnperfect, is nothing lesse then blasphemy: [...] Blasphemy yet beeing taken [...] Mat. 12. 31 not for the sinne against the holy Ghost, but for that kinde of e­vill speaking or detracting which by the mercy of God may bee forgiven. The matter then is, that the collection which Eras­mus made vpon the wordes of Hierome, is too hard, and not the illation which Beza, bringeth in ther-vpon. If Erasmus mistook Hierome or strained him too farre, Beza hath nothing to say a­gainst Hierome. Thus some of your accusations are for ought that I can finde meerely forged and fained, by you; some other things are aggravated and made worse then they be; some iust censures vpon counterfeits are vrged by you as if they were in­vectiues [Page 379] against their true works, some speeches against one ap­parantly erroneous doctrine is construed of you, as if it were vt­tered against all that the Doctors haue wrote; the taxing of one treatise or of some one sentence therein, is traduced as if it vvere the reiecting of all. Yet when all is done, he is a simple Reader that cannot see, that as your suggestions are partiall and slaunde­rous, so our vsage to the Fathers of the Church is such, as to giue them their full right. In token whereof it were easie to shewe in the writings of our men, many high praises and commendations given by them, to Hierom, to Chrysostome, to Augustine & the rest.

FOr they who cannot endure certaine set times to fast in, no marveile though they revile Saint Basile, Saint Gregory Nazianzen, S. Leo, S. Chrysostome which wrote such notable Sermons of Lent, and of other fasting dayes thē vsed, as they are now in the Catholike Church.

7 YOV haue given vs the rule before; that we revile the Fathers: novve vvee shall haue the reason annexed to the rule. The Fathers write notable Sermons concerning Lent and other fasting daies as they are nowe vsed; and wee cannot endure such fastes, therefore we hate the Fathers writing of that argument. I vvoulde you coulde learne to hate vntruth, and then your eies would bee so opened, that you should see little of this which you write to bee true. Hovve prooue you that the Doctors speake of Lent and fasting daies as you now vse them? You name vs first Saint Basile, in whome I finde onely two Ser­mons concerning fasting. The Serm. de Ieiunio. former of them is in commen­dation of abstinence, howe good it is for the soule, howe health­full to the body. And there is not one worde in it, to which vvee doe not assent, giving due commendation therevnto. His se­cond Sermon doth beare a title which seemeth more to make for you, Deieiunio pridie diei Cinerum. Of the fast the day before the day of Ashes, which imply­eth [Page 380] that then they kept a day of ashes, as now you keepe Ashe­wednesday. I will not heere discusse whether the solemne vse of ashes was so auncient or no: the contrary wherof directly appee­reth out of Polydore Virgil, [...] saying that Gregory who came two hundred yeeres after, first appointed Lent to begin on the [...] De inven­torib. rerū, Lib. 6. 3. Wednesday, and added diverse solemnities vnto it, as by name the taking of ashes, where-withall this is said, Remember man that thou art ashes, and [...]to ashes thou shalt returne againe. Hence first the title of the Sermon may very well be supposed to be crept in by some later meanes. Secōdly if you wil allow it, then your Shrove-Tuesday must be a fasting day, which the Romanists Carnevall may not admit. Thirdly if you had looked into that Sermon it selfe, you might haue found that more then once, Basile speaketh of a fast onely for five daies, & no more; which being to be kept no lōger, vtterly overthroweth your positiō, that in those times Lent and fasting daies were observed as now they be. You haue hard happe Doctour Hill to trippe vp your owne heeles. In Gre­gory Nazianzen there is so little concerning fasting, as that scāt any point in Divinity is lesse touched by him then that. In all his works I find nothing purposely of that argument, but that ^a once he doth excuse himselfe, that for a whole Lent he had bin with­drawne De qua­drage [...]. [...]e­iunij silen­tio. to his private Meditations, and not preached publikely to his congregation. Out of which there is nothing to be wonne but this, that a Lent in one sorte or other was kepte in his time, which you need not trouble your selfe to prove; for we do yeeld it. As for Chrysostome, he hath three or foure Sermons where he speaketh of fasting, how requisite it is, and that aboue all matters men in their abstinence should fast frō sinne, which doctrine wee also publish. Onely Ad Serm. 72: & 73. Populum Antiochenum he hath two Ser­mons which mention Lent kepte among them, but particularly in what māner of abstinēce, he speaketh not. And what maketh this against vs, whom you wrongfully charge to endure no sette times of abstaining? Leo hath many Sermons cōcerning fasting, whereof De ieiunio d [...]imi me­sin, eight are made touching a fast kept in the 10. moneth in winter when all fruites were quite brought in: at which time then they vsed to give God thankes for the same. In these I find much cōmendation of fasting & almes, with exhortation there­vnto. [Page 381] Also frequent mention of fasting on the Wednesdaies & Fridaies, & remembring them to watch on the Saterdotes Lastly that there were Serm. [...]: 4. times of abstinence in the yeere celebrated, Lent in the Spring, one for Somer at Whitsontide, another for Autumne in the seventh moneth, a fourth for Winter in the tēth moneth. He hath De qua­dragesima 12. Sermons concerning Lent, wherin he of­ten mentioneth how that time consisted of 4 [...]. daies, that it was a time of preparatiō against the feast of Easter: & that therin men ought as wel to abstaine frō sin, as to fast frō foode. And De ieiunio pēcostes. 4. Ser­mons I find in him touching a fast after Whitsons, that if any errour by intemperance be committed in the feast, it may be ex­pelled by the sobriety of a fast. Last of all hee hath De ieiunio septim [...] mensis. 9. Sermons touching a fast yeerely celebrated in the seventh moneth, where it appeereth that their abstinēce was on the Wednesdaies & F [...] ­daies, as also it was in that other after Pē [...] ost; the remebrāce of which 4. t [...]es by him mētioned our Church doth yet keep. But in al these his Sermōs, there is not somuch as one word of distin­ctiō or dierēce of meats, that flwh was to be refused, & fishe to be fedde on; but that there shold be an abstinence in general. In one place I observe that thus hee saith, De ieiu­nio Pente­cost. Ser [...]. 14. Every creature of God is good, & there is nothing to be [...]fused vvhich is received with giving of thankes. But we are not created to this and, that with foule & shamelesse greedinesse we should desire all the plenties of the world, as if that which is lawfull to be taken, might not be lawfull to bee omitted. Heere is no dif­ference, of anye of Gods creatures which are sitte for foode, but one as vvell as another may bee lavvfully vsed of him vvho mindeth at all to eate. So that in a vvord amongest all these Fa­thers vvhom you bring as crossing our courses, heere is nothing which toucheth vs, but rather maketh against you.

8. But to the ende that you and as many as vvill, may bee satisfied vvhat vvee doe in this behalfe, first vvee doe teach that fasting and abstinence not for or vvith superstition, but vvith faith and knowledge is necessarie for Christian men. 2. Sam. 12. 16. Da­vid fasting prayed for the life of the childe vvhich vvas borne in adulterie. VVhen the enemies invaded his Kingdome, 2. Chron. 20. 3 Io­saphat commaunded a publike fast to bee proclaimed. VVhat shoulde I speake of Ezr: 8. 21. Ezra vppon occasion doing the like, and [Page 382] the king of Ion. 3. 7: Ninive at the preaching of Ionas, Ioel. 1: 14: cap. 2. 15. Ioel prescribeth this to bee the meanes to appease the Lord in the midst of his in­dignation. And in the new Testament wee heare of it as practi­sed by Mat. 4. 2. Christ, and there are by Cap: 6. 16. him also rules prescribed in vvhat sorte it shoulde bee done. For frequenting of it, Luk: 2: 37. Anna the old vertuous widow is commended, and so is Act. 10: 30 Cornelius. It is one of the weapons wherwith S. 2. Cor: 6: 5 Paul did fight against his spi­ritual enemies. Briefly, in casting out of Divels Christ ioineth fa­sting with praiers, & saith that there is one kind of [...] Mat. 17: 21 spirits, which cannot be eiected without those two. We adde to these Scrip­tures the testimonies of ancient writers, as that of [...] De ieinnio Christi. Cyprian, By fastings the sinke of vices is dryed vp, wentonnessa is abated, concupiscen­ces do waxe faint, pleasures goe away as fugitiues. And that of [...] Chry­sostome, That as lighter ships doe passe the Sea more swiftly, but those [...] Hom. 1. in Genesim. which are over-burdened with great waight are drowned, so fasting ma­king the minde the lighter doth cause that it the more easily doth passethe sea of this life, and looketh into heaven and these things which are in hea­ven. As also that of [...] In psal. 42 Austen, Wilt thou haue thy praier to fly vp vnto God? make it two wings, fasting & almes. Secondly we do think that such as liue in these Northren parts, as Germany, England, Scot­land, Denmarke & other toward the Pole Artike, cannot with­out overthrow of their bodies so long endure to abstain frō food as those may who dwel in a warmer climate. By the Antiperista­fis of the cold aire about them, their inward heat is the greater, & their stomaks are the better, wherby more meat is digested, yea & more speedily concocted. Hence it is as [...] one observeth, that those of Afrike hold the Spanyards to be great eaters, the Spani­ards [...]. li [...] 10. [...]. Scotic. thinke so of the French, the French obiect that fault to the English & Scots. Yet when they come to abide where wee liue, these in their feeding are nothing inferior to vs, Italiās & French men while they haue a while remained in England, giuing scope liberally enough vnto their stomaks. Heat thē by nature being in vs, if we shold not haue cōpetent food, it wold so much the more be kindled, & so work vpō the body it selfe to cōsūe it & destroy it; that of seneca being verified, De Ira lib: [...]9. Wāt of food enforceth heat, & bur­teth the bloud, & staieth the course of it in the veines being ill affected. It is not therfore for men of these Northren parts to emulate or vie [Page 383] with other of hote coūtries, who in this behalfe are able to indure that which is right strange to vs. When S. Paule & his cōpanions were in fear of suffring [...] ship-wracke, it is saide that for 14. daies [...] Act: 27: 35 they cōtinued fasting, receiving nothing. Vnderstād this naked­ly as the words do ly, & then, as much must be attributed to the fear of death which amated thē, so not the least part thereof is to be imputed to the Climat, they then being in the mediterrā Sea, as low as the South of Sicely. Yet it may be taken also, that they did eat nothing, that is so litle as if it had bin nothing, no set meal or refreshing. Ad Helle­nium. Greg. Nazianzen goeth beyōd this, making men­tiō of some, who for 20. whole daies & nights abstained frō meat, the truth wherof I leaue to the Readers cōsideratiō. Other exam­ples of extraordinary abstinence may be brought, which cannot in any sort be equalled by the Northren natiōs, whose necessity requireth more frequent food. And this is one reason why Chri­stians of these parts are not vrged to watch all night before great feasts, as in some places they did in the Primitiue Church, which even now I mencioned out of Leo, since the greater & fuller is their feed, the more apt men are to sleepe: frō the which if they should be broken & staid in the time of preparatiō to the solem­nity, they wold be the more propense to it, at the solemnest acts thēselves, as of hearing the word or receiving the Sacrament, in which case Act. 20: 9 [...] Eurychus was at the preaching of Paul, & three Mat: 26: 4 [...] of the Apostles then whē they should haue bin very vigilāt, even at the time of Christs apprehension.

9 Thirdly since there is such a difference betweene Countries, as also it is manifest that there is between the cōplexions & cō ­stitutiōs of mē, some being strōger, some weaker, some laboring more, other by their calling sitting within dore & stirring lesse, some apt by fasting to fal into sicknes, there is that discretiō & moderatiō to be vsed in abstinence, that our bodies may be far­thered in Gods service, & not so quelled, as that by sicknes wil­fully but vnadvisedly procured, we be not able to glorifie God, & follow our vocation so as otherwise wee should. Thomas Aquin: 2: 2 qu [...] 47: [...], 1: A­quinas giveth the reasons and endes wherefore men should fast. One he saith is to make satisfaction for sins, which is but a Popish conceit of the Angelical Doctor, in as much as the only bloud of [Page 386] Christ hath that force with the Father. Another is to represse the concupiscence of the flesh: which indeede hath his vse, for as Tertullian telleth vs, [...] Tentations vvhich are [...]ned to fulnesse and [...] Baptis. [...]deratenesse of the bellie, are by abstinence crushed. The thirde is, that the minde may bee lifted more freelye to contemplate those things which are aboue. For the pulling downe of the bo­dy is the h [...]ysing vp of the soule, as Basile [...] saith, even as in a [...] In Isai 1 [...] ballance the lower that one scale doth goe, the higher doth the other mounte vp. All abstinence then which is to elevate the minde and to abate concupiscence is good: but that is not al­lowable, which destroyeth the substance in steede of the ac­cident, and in steede of setting vp the soule, ladeth and clog­geth it with the incumbraunce of a wearyish and crased body, vvhich leaneth resteth and lyeth [...] heavy on the soule the inha­bitante [...] Seneca de [...]ra lib. 3. 9. thereof, as a rotten olde cottage, which is ready to fall vpon the ovvner, if hee doe not supporte it. And how plen­tifully haue many of the Fathers given their auditours warning of this [...] If the enemie the Devel De virgin. saith Athanasius doe suggest in­to thy minds great exercises of devation that thou maiest make thy bodie vveake and vnprofitable, doe thou contrary vvise looke that thy fasting haue measure in it. Heere Athanasius holdeth those motions to come from the Devill. Ad probā Epistol. 3. Fulgentius prescribeth what we should doe, [...] our fasting there is such a temper to bee vsed, that neither fulnesse doe set vp the bodie, nor [...]oderate abstinence doe vveaken it. Saint Augustine [...]tch, that wise men in the [...] Church doe brotherly [...] De mori [...] Eccles Cathol. li. 1 c. 33. water such as foolishlie shlie refuse to drinke vvine, that they shoulde not by their vaine superstition be sonner weake in their bodies, then holy [...] their soules. The same reason is for all [...]ndiscreete abstinence, from a­ny other kinde of foode, so that we bee hurt by it. But in this matter none goe farther then Saint Basile, and Saint Bernarde. The one of whō saith thus, [...] I dot not so beate my bodie, that I weare [...] [...]fil de ve [...] virginit. it out with immoderate woundes, and make it [...] v [...]profitable to ser­vice, but this is the only course of chastising the bodie that I subiect it to service and doe rightly compell it to abo [...] the master. But he who by [...] of [...] doeth so subdue his servant, that hee is not onely made vnprofi­table to the service of his master, but that he is not able to [...] himselfe, what hath hee [...] [...]lse but made himselfe the [...] of his serva [...]t? [Page 387] For it must needes be that the bodie being now made vnable to serue, and by weakenesse growing sicke, his maister on the other side must serue him, while [...] one amated he is ever busie about the curing of the others infir­mitte. The other thus, Bernard. ad fratres de monte Dei. Watching, fasting and such like, doe not binder but helpe, if they be done with the order of discretion. Which if they bee so done with the fault of indescretion, that either by the spirit fainting or the body growing sicke spirituall things be hindered, hee who is so, hath taken away from his body the effecting of a good worke from his spirite affection to it, from his neighbour an example, frō God honor: he is sacrilegious & gilty of all these thinges towards God. Not that according to the meaning of the Apostle, even this doth not seeme the duetie of a man, and it be not decent and iust, that the head should once ake in the service of God, which formerly hath oftētimes even to aking labored in the vanity of the world: or that the belly should be hungry even to croping, which hath often times beene filled even to vomiting, but a measure in all things is to be had: the body is sometimes tobe afflicted, but not to be worne out. I shut vp this point with that of Hierome, Epistol: [...]: Impose vpon thy selfe such a measure of fasting as thou art able to beare. And againe, Epistol. 10 Small store of meate, and a belly which is ever hungry is preferred before fasts of three daies togi­ther.

10 Fourthly to put a religious difference betweene meates, as that Christians some times may feed on fish and not on flesh, is Antichristian and vniustifiable superstition. Those who teach this difference are within the compasse of S. Pauls prophecy cal­ling it a doctrine of Devils, when 1. Tim. 4. 3 men forbid to mary and to abstain from meates, which God hath created to be received with thanks-giving. The Ibidem. Rhemists would shift this place by applying it to the Ma­nichees, and some other olde heretikes, and by telling vs that the Church of Rome holdeth all meates cleane by Gods creatiō: but these are simple evasions, for doth the example of those an­cient heretikes any way preiudicate, but that there may bee such again now in the world, as at this time there be Arrians, & as you embrace Pelagianisme a fresh; and is it not more likely to be vn­derstood of you then of them, since they were more thē twelue hundred years agone, & the prophecie is that such should come in the latter times: and in those we now doe liue. And whereas it is confessed that you holde them not vncleane by Gods crea­tion; [Page 388] that maketh against you, since you by your constitutions dare to repute that polluted, which God hath sāctified & made cleane. Tit. 1: 15: Unto the pure all things are pure. It is your inhibitiō which presumeth to make that vnlawful, which the creatour did not so make, and this is iniurious to Gods creation. And yet I must tell you that there is one of yours who writing of this argument, doth yeeld thereason of your prohibition of fleshe and not of fishe, on fasting daies, to bee from the creatures themselves made by the Almighty, even Durandus who teacheth it to bee, because God did not at the first curse the waters, Lib. 6 [...] cup. detalijs ie. [...]ijs. In as much as remission of sinnes should be by the water of Baptisme for this element is most wor­thy, which washeth away filthinesse, and vpon which the Lords spirite was mooved before the making of the world. But hee cursed the earth in the workes of man, and hence it is that in fasting it is not lawfull to eate ante kinde of flesh which liveth on the earth as foure-footed beastes and birdes &c. Neither can any Papist yeelde a better reason then this, why in their fastes fishe shoulde bee eaten of, and that vvith greedinesse, as they permitte leave to themselves to doe. VVhere I appeale to the consciences'not onely of all other vvho doe knowe them, but even of our Romanistes themselves, vvhether the ordinary keeping of fishe-dayes amonge such of them as be of ability, bee according to the true nature of a fast, to pull downe the flesh, or rather to inflame it. For is it not most certaine which one Gentilet: in exam: Cōc: T [...]d cap: 5: saith, that howsoever the praiers of Papists be leane, yet their fasts be fat. May not a mā more delicately fast with one of thē, thē feast with another person? Is there any crea­ture belonging to diet, wherin more luxury may be then in fish, the old Athen. lib. [...]: 3: & l 8. 6: Philoxenus, Apitius, Lucullus, & al the renoūed belly­godded gluttons hasting to such refections, & fishe of all other provisions being bought at inestimable prices, as were easy to shew out of Pliny, Atheneus, & other both old & new writers. Fy therfore vpon such odious hypocrisy, which thinketh to honour God with such a mockery, as that their abstinence may bee the largest feeding, and their fasting vvith a belly full of the most sumptuous fishe, besides wine and a thousand sortes of iunkets, vvhich superfluity and wanton curiosity doe yeelde, to make vp Romanishe mortification. UUhat doth it profire saith Saint [Page 389] [...] Hierome not to eate oile, and yet to seeke out certaine curious and [...] Epistol: 2: hardlye gotten meates, as figges, pepper, nuttes, dates, fine cakes, honye, pestakes. And such abstinence as this doth Saint De mori­bus Manich. lib. 2: 13: Au­sten condemne in the Manichees, who would touch no fleshe, and yet did feede on all the dainties that arte or witte coulde af­foorde. His iudgement is that the moderate eating of a peece of bacon, or some other plaine fleshe, is not so luxurious as that their abstinence. Our doctrine in this behalfe is, that Matth: 15: 11. it which goeth into the mouth defileth not a man, but that vvhich commeth out of the mouth defileth a man. And Rom: 14. 17: The kingdome of GOD is not meate and drinke, And [...] it is good that the hearte bee stablished with grace, and not vvith meates, vvhich haue not profited them, that Hebr: 13 9 haue beene occupied therein. To these thinges the auncient Fa­thers doe agree, as Tertullian, De cibis ludaicis: GOD taketh pleasure onely in our faith, onely in our innoceney, onely in our truth, onely in our vertues, which dwell not in the belly but in the minde, & vvhich the feare of God and awe to heavē do get vnto vs, not earthly meat. And to this agreeth S. Austen, De civit: Dei: l 16. 37: Wee learne in eating that no man is to bee blamed, for the kinde of meate; but for the immodest greedinesse. Yet withall we adde, that for civil order and the common wealthes sake, for the spa­ring of the provision at Land, for spēding of that which cōmeth frō the Sea, for the incouragmēt of fisher [...]mē, & for farther main­tenāce & imploiment of navigation, on such daies as by positive lawes be appointed, wee make & ought to make a difference of our diet, keeping such times as fish-daies, by which name they are more properly called, thē to be termed fasting daies: This we do for civil order & obedience, & not for that which may be ter­med directly an immediate acte of religion; for we condemne the Romish Church for embracing that opinion. Although in­deede the wiser sort of that packe do hold this to bee but a small matter of religion, and rather in their owne minds repute it a de­vise politickely to keepe people in awe, or a tricke if neede bee to get good store of mony when they lift to dispence, as may bee seene by that of Gene­brard. l. 4: chronogr: Clement the 6 who proclaiming a Croisado a­gainst the Turkes (in truth to inrich himselfe after the fashion of the Popes) gave every one who would pay for it, a free liberty to eate egges and white meate, on the Fridaies and every fasting [Page 390] day, Lent excepted. This did the Arch-bishops of Triers and Colein obtaine for their Dioceses for ever; but the Arch-bishop of Mentz refusing to contribute so much mony as was required, itlyeth on his Diocese to this day, that they may not eate egges or other white meates on the fasting daies, as in the other tvvo Bishops lurisdictions it is permitted. How much happier did the coine make the one of these, then the other? But when his Holi­nesse list, he can goe farther then this, as Pope Leo the 10. did, when Ioh: Fox. in Eccles: Histor: Cromwel went to renue the Pardons of Boston. For there among many other favours one was, that it shold be lawful for the brethren of the Fraternity at Boston, to eate milke, egges, butter on forbidden daies, yea in Lent it selfe; yea fleshe also by the advise of a ghostly father and a Physitian, and all this with­out scruple of conscience. So that if the gentle Pope list, (vvho wil knowe vpon what tearmes he parteth with his dispensation) the thing is no sin; which some of the wiser Pseudo-Catholikes have smelled out as we may imagine, when so freely in Rome it selfe & in Paris, some of that Balaamitical cōgregation make no cōsciēce so that it be secretly done, to feed some or the greatest part of Lent on flesh, as diverse of our traveilers do constantly re­port. And we haue no smal store of these in England too, which in their harte loue his Holinesse well, but yet will not part vvith their fleshe on fishe daies for his sake. Some bee vviser then some.

11 Fifthly we doe not finde that any set daies of fasting vvere appointed by Christ or his Apostles, and the Popish daies dif­fer somewhat at this time from those of the Primitive Church, so that they haue neither warrant from GODS vvorde, nor yet from the auncient. Diverse of those whome they call their Ladies Eves, were not so much as heard of long agone. Fridaie and Saterday are nowe the ordinary daies of abstinence, and VVednesday is almost quite discontinewed saving in some few places, and on some fewe set times. Some of the olde Church hearde of Friday, and VVednesday [...], and that not onely foure times in the yeere as you heard before out of Leo, but otherwise also: yet of Saterday no worde. VVee have saith Homil: 10: in [...]tic. Origene the fourth and sixth dayes of the vveeeke, vvherein vvee doe solemnely [Page 391] fast, This was the Wednesday and Friday; the first in computa­tion beeing our Sabaoth or Sunday. Heres: 75. Epiphanius hath as much, who is he in all the world, which assenteth not that on the fourth day, and the day before the Sabaoth (he meaneth the Iewes Sabaoth vvhich was Saterday) a fast is decreed in the Church? And if we must also bring forth the Constitution of the Apostles, how they did there decree, that on the fourth day & that before the Sabaoth, there should bee fasting everis where, the Pētecost excepted &c. And in another In conclu­sion. liber cōtt. heres. place hee hath, That the fasts were so delivered by the Apostles of Christ. Thus some of the most auncient kepte them in a forme differing from that of these moderne times. VVhere also you may observe that it was the fashion of those times, to attribute to the Apostles all thinges for which themselues were earnest, if they had beene so derived to them from their predecessours, that they vvell knevve not the first erecter or inventer of them, vvhich before the ende of this Chapter vvill bee more manifested. But for this present, Saint Augustine vvho lived after Epiphanius, and for his iudi­cious labours vvas inferiour to none of the vvorthiest Fathers of the Church, vppon good advise speaketh thus, Epist: 8 [...] If you aske my opinion in this matter, I revolving it in my minde doe see that in the vvritinges of the Evangelistes and Apostles, and in all, that vvhich is called the Nevve Testamente fasting is commaunded. But vppon vvhaat dayes vvee ought not to fast, and on vvhat dates vve should, I doe not see it defined by the precept of the Lord or his Apostles. If Saint Augustine had ever heard of any authenticall Constitution from the Apostles, heere had beene a good time to have men­tioned it. And so it had beene for Saint Chrysostome, when hee teacheth his hearers, that God had lefte virginity & fasting not as matters imposed on men by necessity, but arbitrary and at their owne choice. His wordes are these, In 1 [...] ad Corint: Homil. 9: Thou canst not fast, nor exercise virginity. But thou maiest of thou wilts, and those vvho can, doe accuse vs. Yet notwithstanding God hath not beene so severe and rough to vs, neither hath hee commaunded these thinges nor appointed them by l [...]vve, but hath leste them in the free-vvill and choice of the audi­tours. These Fathers then could not finde that any sette dayes of fasting vvere imposed by GOD, by the Apostles, or any o­ther of sufficient povver, else they vvoulde not haue spoken as [Page 392] they did. And among the Canōs fathered on the Apostles as In conci­lijs. I­sidore citeth them, there is no such matter to be foūd, which ma­keth vs bold vpō the warrant of all these, to thinke the speech of Epiphanius to be too large: and that so much the rather, because Vt supra. Origene who went long before him mentioneth the daies, but hath not one worde, that they were so ordered by the Apostles. These are therfore cōstitutiōs but of men, & they who came after thē especially in the Westerne Church, have varied frō them, as appeereth by rather accepting of Saterday then Wednesday, or by adding some where this last to the other, which sheweth that they thēselues imagined the ordināce not to be Apostolical. We then finding thē so at first erected & then varied by mē, do holde thē but to be humane cōstitutiōs, & for order & comelines sake we retaine them, as having received them from our Auncesters, concerning whom we are of that iudgment wherof every milde & sober man should be, that is to say, for the reverence which he beareth his predecessours, to professe that he willingly receiveth frō them, al things, which he doth not find either directly or by a consequent contrary to the word of God. This rule directeth vs in these set daies for fishe, & we keepe them, but yet teaching our people in what sorte, for order & decency not for religion & superstition. For we dare not goe so farre as Papistes doe, but wee rather abominate their doctrine, when they make the keeping of fasting daies one of the Horae beatisi vir­ginis. Vaux in Catechis: commaundements of their Church, and annexe vnto them that the Vaux Ibi. charitable keeping of these com­maundementes bringeth everlasting life: but the contemning of these preceptes and such like of holy Church, bringeth everlasting damnation, & do so hardly pursue those who haue eaten forbidden meates on their fishe daies, as that nothing but life will make satisfaction for the same. According wherevnto a Centur: 16: in An. 1538. yong gentleman of Tho­lose was served in Fraunce, beeing burnt to ashes at Paris for ea­ting fleshe, vvhen it was not permitted by the Romane Syna­gogue. The like examples I might produce of men so served in Scotland for the same cause, and England hath had some migh­tily molested there-about.

12 I might adde some other circumstances appertaining to fasting, as that there ought to bee no opinion of merite in it, [Page 393] since our best vvorkes are in themselves defective, and our very Isai: 64. 6. righteousnesse is but like to a menstruous cloath: but our re­quest must bee that GOD vvill accepte the vvorke for his CHRISTES sake. Also that it bee not in hypocrisy, as theirs was whome CHRIST Mat: 6: 161 reprooved for making a shevv before men; or as that of the Pharisee vvas, vvho toulde the Luc: 18. 12. Lorde that hee fasted twise in the vveeke. Of such abstinence as this is, Saint Cyprian doth speake, De ieiu­nio christl. Fasting doth oftentimes puffe vp a man, and doth driue him to pride and hypocrisie. Lastly there must bee as greate a care to abstaine from sinne as from meate. The Pro­phet Cap 58: 6: Esay doth most significantly expresse this, Is not this the fasting vvhich I haue chosen, to loose the bandes of vvickednesse, to take of the heavie burthens, and to let the oppressed goe free, and that yee breake everie yoake? And the Fathers of the Church doe fre­quently ingeminate it, as Origene, Homil. [...]ot in Levitic: Fast from all sinne, take no meate of malice, eate no dainties of pleasure. So Basile, In Isai [...]: Not by and by in the forbearing of meate is that force of the minde, vvhere-with wee contend to perfection, sufficient of it selfe, vnlesse the soule doe stedfastly settle it selfe in all kinde of abstinence from those thinges vvhich doe maintaine naughtinesse. For as a man consisteth of a bodie and a soule, so there are tvvo-folde meates &c. Saint Ambrose speaketh yet more plainely, Serm: 33: This is the vvill of the LORDE, that vvee shoulde fast from meates and also from sinnes. That vve shoulde en­ioyne our bodie abstinence, that vvee may the more vvith dravve our soules from vices: for a bodie vvhich is dravvne drie is a bridle to a luxurious soule. I vvill shutte this vp vvith the speech of Grego­rie, Homil. 16: in 40: Homilijs: To sanctifie a fast, is (ioyning other good thinges) to shevve an abstinence of the fleshe vvorthie of GOD. Let anger cease, let chiding bee allayed. For the fleshe is pulled downe in vaine, if the minde be not re­frained from her evill pleasures. Thus you see what our Church hol­deth concerning fasting: we allow, and commend it, and teach it as well as you; but wee iumpe not with you in your Iewishe su­perstitions: we attribute no sāctity to the differēce of meats, nei­ther in religiō do we hold our selves tied to daies of true fasting, although by civil lawes which are to bee obeyed for conscience sake, we are tied to fish daies. God accepteth not the one foode before the other. True fasting is to receive no sustenāce or very [Page 394] little, as may be seene by the Ionas 3: 7: Ninivits who did eate no food & drinke no water, & so will good Christians deale by themselues whē others do not know it, & on such daies as in their own hart they appropriate to that vse: for we haue a liberty so to do as O­rigen telleth vs, A Homil: 10 in Levitic. Christian hath liberty to fast at any time, not with superstition of observation, but with the vertue of containing. And thus farre haue I followed you concerning fasting daies. Now some thing also touching Lent.

13 Your proposition is that Lent and fasting daies were kept in the time of the old Fathers as you keepe them now. I haue in part shewed the vanity of that assertiō for the one already. Now let vs see for the other. When the first keeping of a Lent began it is hard to say. S. Hierome ascribeth the or daining therof to the Apostles. For Episto. 54: he shewing the difference betweene the Ortho­doxe and the Montanistes, amonge other matters saith that the Montanists yearely kept three Lents, but we doe fast one Lent in the whole yeare according to the tradition of the. Apostles. And this place doth De inven­torib. Rer. lib. 6. 3. Polydore Virgil cite out of Hierome, as referring the in­stitution of Lent to the Apostles of Christ. But we are of opini­on that in this matter Hierome is favourably to be vnderstoode, at calling that which was auncient, and the set beginning wher­of vvas not distinctly knowne, by the name of an Apostolicall tradition: but no way being able to prooue, that by them it was ordained. The reasons of this our assertion are, first that vvee thinke it cannot bee found in any of the writers of the first three hundred yeares, vvho lived neerest to the dayes of the Apostles, that they decreed it. Origene speaketh of Lent, but goeth not so farre. Wee haue the daies of Lent consecrated vnto fastings. Se­condlye if the Apostles had ordained it, they woulde haue set Homil. 10 in, Levitic. downe some order and manner of it, in one vniformity to all the Church; but of that wee finde no steppe or marke amonge those of the Primitiue times, but exceeding greate disagree­ment many vvaies, as forth-vvith I shall declare. Thirdly vve finde some-what expresly to the contrary, and that not where this matter is touched obiter and slightlye as by Hierome, but vvhere the vvhole state of Lent is of purpose rifled and discus­sed, as shall presently be touched. Eusebius Eccl hist: lib: 5. 24: speaking of the [Page 395] heate of Victor the Romane Bishoppe in excommunicating the Easterne Churches, for not iumping vvith the VVesterne in the circumstaunces of observing Easter, signifieth vvithal that the Bishoppes of the VVest did much dislike the attempte of Victor. Amongst other Ireneus vvho lived in Fraunce, writeth to Victor aboute it, vvhose vvordes Eusebius citeth thus: This controversio is not onelye of the date of Easter, but also of the order and manner of the Fast. For some doe thinke that they oughte to fast one daie, others two, diverse more, ma [...]te fortie, and they doe measure and make vp the daie, reckoning all the houres of the dait and night. And such varietye and difference of those vvho observed these fastes did not beginn [...] in our age, but longe before amonge our anncesters, vvho (as a man may gesse) did not strictly obserue the custome of them, vvho tither by a certaine simplicitis or by a private authoritye had determi­ned some thing against future time. Thus the case of Lent stoode most vncertainelye, aboute two hundred yeares or lesse after Christes birth, and Ireneus saieth that this difference had beene also amonge their predecessours much before, so that hitherto wee may vvell collecte, that in the first Church there vvas no determinate vniforme certainety in the keeping of Lent; which doubtlesse had not beene vvanting, if the Apostles had been the erecters or founders thereof. [...] Socrates hath a longe tract, Eccl. Hist. lib: 5: 21: first concerning the keeping of Easter, which he plainely saith grewe to be diversly observed among men, by custome and not by any lavve from the Apostles, although, saith he, they of Asia say that they haue their tradition from Saint Iohn the Evangelist, and they of Rome saye they haue theirs from Saint Peter. But hee reiecteth both their sayinges, because they coulde bring no written testimonie of either of these, vvhich is a good course for vs also to examine traditions called Apostolicall by. From Easter he commeth to Lent, and therein sheweth, that even in his daies which was late, the manner of keeping of it was very different. Those saith hee who are at Rome doe fast three vveekes togither before Easter, the Saterdaie and the Sundaie beeing excepted. But they vvho dvvell in Illyria and all Greece; and they vvho dvvell at. Alexandria doe sixe vveekes before beginne those fastes vvhich are kepte before Easter, and that time they call Lente. [Page 396] Some contrary to the custome of these, making seven weekes before that feast the beginning of their fasting, although they doe fast onely fifteene daies, and that with some distaunce being put betweene, yet notwithstan­ding they call this Quadragesima or Lent. Wherevpon I doe not a little wonder how these though they differ in the number of the daies, yet all cal it by one name Quadragesima. Diverse doe giue diverse reasons of this name, devised of their owne heade. Moreover they doe not only differ in the number of the daies, but in their abstinence from meate they fo­low diverse courses. For some doe altogither abstaine from all kind of li­ving creatures: some amonge living creatures doe eate only fishes, some togither with fish doe eate also birdes, and doe saie that they are bredde of the water, (as it is in Moises.) Some doe forbeare from fruits covered with hard shels, and from egges: others doe eate dry breade only, others not so much as that. There bee who when they haue fasted to the ninth houre doe vse various kindes of meates. In severall nations they fast se­verally, whereof there are almost infinite causes. And because no man can shewe any precepts concerning it set downe in writing, it is manifest that the Apostles therein did giue free power to everie man, minde and will, that each man should doe that which is good, beeing induced vnto it neither by feare nor necessitie. This severall sort of fasting we doe know to be in the Churches.

14 Hence then iudge whither it came from the Apostles or no, and conferre these thinges with the place of Saint Augustine before mencioned, where hee speaketh in generall of fasting daies. And here Doctour Hill appeareth your great skil in an­tiquity, when cōtrary to so direct records, you avouch that your Lent and fasting daies are now kept as they were in the daies of the olde Fathers, which is as false as any thing possibly can bee, yea taking it of the very Church of Rome it selfe, which so late as Socrates lived, (that is at least till Theodosius the younger) kept it but three weekes, and that with some daies interrupted. And least that you should thinke that onely Socrates reporteth this, heare Sozom. l. 7 19. Sozomen in the same argument, who intreating of the severall customes of diverse Churches in many circumstaun­ces, saith thus of Lent, That Lent wherein the people fasteth, some doe reckon for sixe weekes of daies, as the Illyrians and those who are towarde the West, as also all Lybia and Egypt with them of Palestina: some for se­ven [Page 397] as they of Constantinople, and the nations lying about even to the Phaenicians; some seatteringly or interruptedly do fast three weekes in these sixe or seven: other doe continuately keepe the three weekes vvhich immediately goe before Easter: some two weekes, as the followers of Mon­ta [...]. Such varietye of opinions vvas there in the Primitiue Church. It is now the resolution of our Romanists that Lent is no Lent vnlesse it bee for forty daies, since it is an imitation of Christ vvho fasted Mat: 4: 2: fortye daies and forty nights. But besides that there are other reasons assigned, why it should be for that space. Aq [...]: 2: 2▪ q. 147. art. 5 Aquinas out of Gregory as hee saith, yeeldeth vs these, First because the vertue of the ten commaundementes is fulfilled by the foure bookes of the holie Gospell. And the number of ten being multiply­ed by foure, ariseth to fortie. Or because in this mortall body we consist of the foure elementes, by the pleasures of which bodie vve goe against the commaundements of the Lord, which are received by the ten commaun­dements. Wherevpon it is fit that we should afflict that flesh fortie times. Or because so we striue to offer to God the tith of our daies. For since the yeare is continued for 365. daies, and we are afflicted for thirty six daies, which are to be fasted in the sixe weekes of the Lent, wee doe as it vvere yeelde to God the [...]the or tenth of our yeare. Here a man may knovve some reasons more then he knew before, why Lent consisteth of forty daies. But what adoe there was to hammer it to this set number, it is marveilous to beholde. There are certaine de­crees which are put out in the names of some of the most aun­cient Bishops of Rome. Among these, Decretal. Epist Teles phori. Anastas. in vita Telesp. Telesphorus is made to write thus, We doe decree that seven full weekes before the holy Ea­ster, all Cleargie men, that is such as are called into the lot of the Lorde shall fast from flesh, because as the life of Cleargie men shoulde bee diffe­rent from the conversation of lay men, so also in their fasting there should bee a difference. Here then the Cleargy did fast fifty daies rather then forty, keeping no Shrouetide, but beginning Lent at Quin­quagesima, and fasting the Sundaies as well as the rest. For so Polydore Lib. 6. 3. Virgill collecteth vpon the place, for fiftie daies they were to fast every daie, not one beeing omitted. And the words of the Decree doe cary so much, seven full weekes. But see what an in­convenience did arise herevpon. A supposed Constitution of the Apostles vvas broken by this. For some holde that on the [Page 398] Lordes daye or Sundaye no Christian might fast. VVhere once againe wee finde that matters vvhich may most iustly bee doubted of, are called Constitutions or traditions Apostolical. For hovve came it about that the most auncient Fathers and the vvriter of the Epistle fathered on Telesphorus knevve not that there vvas such an ordinaunce? VVell, Haeres. 70: Epiphanius speaking of fasting and mourning, saith it is an ordinance of the Apostles, Hee vvho afflicteth his soule on the LORDES daye, is accursed to GOD And in In Con­clus libri contra hae­reses. another place speaking as plainly, hee saith that there were no fastes vppon the LORDS dayes, and that therefore the Communion vvas celebrated in the mor­ning, that aftervvardes they might eate that daye. Howe may that of Telesphorus and this supposed Apostolicall custome or Constitution stande togither? And yet Part: 1: Decret. Di­stinct. 4. 5. Gratian as late as hee vvrote, vvhich is about foure hundred yeeres since vvas con­tented to cite that Decree of Telesphorus, as if it might haue his vse in our daies, either to know it or to keepe it.

15 Nowe did those vvho came after, like of this supposed ordinaunce of that Romane Arch-bishoppe? No such matter: For concerning the length of time the Councell of Orleans did take order by an expresse Canon, Concil. Aurelian: Canon: 20: This is decreed for all Priests, that before the solemnity of Easter, not Quinquagesima, but Quadra­gesima shall bee helde. Thus the time of the Clergyes Lent was a­bridged. That the time of fiftye daies was in vse before it may appeere by Saint Serm de Eb [...]tate. Basile mentioning that the fast of Lent vvas for seven vveekes. VVhere by the vvay this may bee noted that these vvoordes crosse that other speech cited by me before touching the fast onely of five daies, and therefore one of the two Sermons may goe for a counterfeite. Touching fasting on the Sundaye, another Pope not long after is brought in to cor­rect that. And this is Decret: Me [...]chad Melchiades, who in his Decretal Epi­stle is thus sette downe to write, The fast then of the Lordes daye and of Thursdaye no man must celebrate, that there may bee a true and vnfained difference, betvveene the fast of the Christians and the Gentiles: of these vvho doe beleeve truely, and of Infidels and Here­tikes. Thus the Sundaye is leapte out of Lent: But heere is another trouble vvithall: for by this Decree it hath taken away [Page 399] the Thursday also, and so the dayes of Lente are shrewdely shrunke. In this distraction was the olde Church about this fast, no man almost being able distinctly to tell vvhat to make of it for the number of the dayes. They vvho harkened to Te­lesphorus had a Quinquagesima for a Quadragesima, fiftye or at least forty and nine dayes for fortye. They vvho beganne at Quadragesima Sunday and kepte all till Easter, had fortye and two daies to their Lente, and so as Vbi supra. Polidore hath, for a good while it was kepte. They vvho began at Quadragesi­ma, and slipte out the Sundayes had but thirty and sixe daies to vvhich Aquinas alludeth as before is signified: And if after Melchiades they vvoulde cull out Thursdaies too, the fortye vvoulde bee but thirtye. Heere then at last to mende all, and to strike the finall stroke, commeth Gregory the Greate about sixe hundred yeeres after CHRIST, and because hee vvill have forty daies, and yet the Sundayes too put out of question to bee no fasting daies, hee added Poli. Virg: vt supra: foure daies more to Lent, that is to saye those which are before the Sunday tearmed Qua­dragesima, beginning Lent on that VVednesday vvhich for the solemnity of ashes thē appointed by him to be vsed, is called Ashe-vvednesdey, from vvhich time vntill Easter-day, if the Sundaies bee quite exempted from the number, there may bee reckoned fortye dayes. And that in Gregories time the Sun­dayes were so shut out, appeereth partely by that of himselfe te­stifying that Homil. 16: in 40: Ho­mil: they did not celebrate fast on the LORDS daye in the Lente. So that vvee may saye of this Lent, as it vvas saide of Rome.

And yet there bee in England persons Popishly affected, vvho if they bee questioned vvithall, are not quite resolved in the pointe, whether the first foure daies after Shrovetide bee properly of Lent or no: vvhether that bee but a preparing and clensing vveeke, and vvhether good-Fridaye as it is called, and Easter Even bee to bee solemnized as a parte of a Lenten fast, or for some other reason, and so consequentlye vvhether the Sundaies bee not to bee fasted as naturall members and a true portion of the forty daies or no, and if they bee not to bee so [Page 400] fasted, then by what rule a man may not eate flesh vpon them? Thus is Popery tyed togither with points. When therefore you right learned M. Doctour doe so clerke-like tell vs that in the daies of Saint Basile, Saint Gregory Nazianzene, Saint Leo, S. Chrysostome, Lent and other fasting daies were vsed as they are nowe in the Catholike Church, are you not ashamed of your selfe, and do you not condemne either your owne ignorance for writing you knowe not what, or audaciousnesse for assevering so earnestly that which is so grossely false? But you doe well to vphold Po­pery by that meanes; the doctrine of Antichrist and Sathan by all kinde of lyes. If you cannot blush for your selfe, yet all mo­dest Papists may blush for you, to find in what sort such compa­nions as you are, make no conscience to say ought in that, which they hold to be their religion. I haue taken a little paines to in­struct you concerning the first, ancient and most different ob­servation of Lent: and I let you farther know, that for vniformity with other Christian Churches, and conformity to that vvhich we receiued from those who so long agone went before vs, wee keepe Lent, not superstitiously as you and yours doe, but accor­ding to the laws of our most Christian Magistrats, who cōmande an abstinence from flesh, not for any sanctity which is in such forbearing, but for other wise and civill reasons. And as herein our law alloweth a toleration to such as by necessity of sicknesse or otherwise are enforced to feed on flesh, so it convinceth all such as wilfully or carelessely doe transgresse without any other reason saving their owne greedy appetite. So that wee accounte such men offendours before God, albeit not simply and imme­diately for the eating of Gods creatures, yet consequentlye for dis-obeying the Edicts of godly Princes, to whom they are to yeeld obsequiousnes, and that for Rom: 13: 5 conscience sake. In this ther­fore you very discreetly accuse vs of you cannot tell what, as you doe in that also which now followeth.

AND they who be given to Lust, to Gluttony, to Ambition, to Cove­tousnesse and doe teach such doctrine as necessarily bringeth foorth [Page 401] such fruites, must needes contemne S. Basile, S. Chrysostome, S. Hierome and S. Austen, who haue written so excellently of the Order, Rule, and Vertues of Monkes.

16 HEre now followeth a rable of wicked slaunders, to which you are so inured, that you bee not your selfe, vnlesse almost in every leafe you plentifully powre them out. You charge vs here with many sinnes: and truth it is that in our Realme there are too many, as there will ever bee in the militant Church. But yet it is easie to bee iustified, that the Gospell hath so farre imprinted the feare of God in some, & the good laws established the feare of man in other, that no Popish Realme nor Countrey may for moral civill behaviour bee com­pared to England. Those brutish & beastly sensuall sins which are commonly winked at in Italy and in your Popes courte, are scant knowne among vs, and here lesser sortes of luxury & wan­tonnesse lie subiect to both Ecclesiastical and temporall punish­ment. The filthy lubricity of many Papistes is growne to a Pro­verbe long since amongst vs, and yet they would perswade men that they liue vnder the crosse & in persecution. Yea what may be supposed is done at liberty, (whereof I leaue the testification to a marginall note of M. Quodli. 2 Articul: 2: Watsons in his Quodlibets) vvhen your Priestes and Prisoners restrained at Wisbich are publikely in print questioned one by another, as about other disorders, so namely for Manifest. ca. 1. whoredome. But of this more largely hereafter. For gluttony who ever exceeded your Pseudo-Catholikes on their fish daies, and double feasts, or your monkes the belly-gods of the world, the knights of Bacchus and Ceres, the sty-fed swine of Europe? This by-word was not for naught,

As for ambition, all the earth cannot put downe the Cardinals of Rome, and the inferiour Prelates vnder them. VVhat tumultes were there wont to be about every Bishopricke or rich Abbay, two or three striving for it, and running or sending to Rome, to [Page 402] see whither could out-bribe other. No man is more plentiful in this argument then In Hen: 3: Mathew Paris. What endlesse ambition is there and hath there beene in aspiring to the Papacy, Kings & Princes being set one against another for Popes causes, and in the time of Antipapes a great part of Christendome beeing vp in armes, some on the one side, & some on another. It is not for­gotten howe in Englande the Arch-bishops of Canterbury and Yorke haue striven for priority, their crosses which rather should haue taught them humility iutting each with other, and the bea­rers of them being ready to iustle each other from the wal, in the presence of the Cleargy and Nobilitie of the Realme. Nay if there were nothing else to shevve the ambition of the Roma­nists, yet let vs not novve bee blinde at home, where in Quodl. 2: 7 printed bookes, there hath beene question made betweene the Iesuites and secular Priestes concerning precedence in going, and be­tweene Priestes and other of their religion for places at table, so vnfitly and immodestly, as woulde rather beseeme vaine and weake-witted women, then men who professe themselues to bee of learning and gravitye, besides the greatest tye of their Ec­clesiasticall function. But every Papist doth well to imitate the Pope his holy Father, who setteth himselfe aboue all Kings and Emperours, and therefore they may doe sutably to goe before as many as they can, not in Rom. 12: 10 giving but in taking honor. Yet Christ the best Master hath taught another lesson, Mat: 11: 29 Take my yoke on you, and learne of me, that I am humble and meeke. Lastly for covetous­nesse, who ever on earth exceeded the Romish Synagoge, vvho by the manours and large possessions given them had almost de­voured whole Europe; and by their Buls sent abroad, as also by their dispensations at home did shew themselues the most cun­ning Alchimistes in the worlde to turne in many places a little leade into a great deale of golde, which was fitly Premier Recucil fol 767. likened to the chaunge of Diomedes and Glaucus in Homere. Adde to this the infinite riches vvhich they had by continuall Legacies, Vowes, Offrings and Giftes, whereof monuments may yet bee seene in Rome, Paris, Colein and other places, in their crosses, I­mages, shrines, and many other things of pure massie gold vvith plenty of precious stones; and as once might haue appeared in [Page 403] the treasures belonging to Thomas Becket at Cāterbury, which as Peregrin: Relig. ergo Erasmus who saw them describeth them, did far surpasse the riches of many a king. To contract this matter, the story is vvell known how King Io Fox. in Richard. 1. Richard the first bestowed the three daugh­ters in mariage whom one Fulco put him in minde of, I meane those dangerous daughters Pride, Covetousnesse and Luxurie. He placed Pride with the Templars, Avarice with the Cisterti­an Monkes, and Luxurye with the pompous Prelates of the Church. Such good opinion vvas in those dayes to bee car­ryed concerning the mortified persons of the Romishe Clear­gye.

17 In this place I finde that you exceede your selfe, if possibly that might be. You set vp here to your selfe a ladder of vntruths, whereon you may by every rounde or steppe come higher and higher to the father of lyes. VVe are given to lust, gluttony, ambition, covetousnesse; that is your lowest step. Then, we teach doctrine which must necessaryly bring soorth such fruites. Af­ter this, wee contemne Saint Basile, Saint Chrysostome, Saint Hierome, Saint Augustine. Then to the ende that you maye beare the garlande from all your fellowes, generallye the doctrine of the aunient Fathers, is cleane contrarie to the doctrine of Prote­stantes. [...]ul secūdo de Ova [...]ore Hanniball saw many doting olde men, but never such a one as Phormio. But I turne backe vnto you. Staphyl. in Apolog. You haue long muttered that we teach a doctrin of liberty, and we set open the gate to all profanenes. Notwithstanding this is a slander of your own invētion, neither are you able to name one learned and ap­proved Protestāt, who ever in his preaching or writīg could iust­ly be charged with any such matter. Only your spleene is against that point of faith in Christ, which while you labor to oppugne, you do wrong to vs, but more to God, & to his Son our Saviour, the power of whose redēption you extenuat at your pleasure, to set vp your own merites. Whereas wee doe teach that the same faith when occasion is offred, doth Galat: 5. 6 work by loue, is seene in his fruits, & can no more be without a Christian cōversatiō, thē fire without heat, or water without moisture. This we hold: whereas cōtrarywise I appeale to the cōscience of your selfe, as also to the cōscience of every indifferently minded man, whither Popery be [Page 404] not the open gap to a gulfe of al vngodlines, when the absoluti­on of a Preest shal be said to free a man frō hel; the Indulgēce of a Pope, the same person frō Purgatory; the pardon of such a one as cannot forgiue his own sinnes (for the Rhemens. Thess. 2: 4: Pope himselfe confesseth to another Priest and is absolved by him) shall cleere a man from poysoning, murthering, whoring & all vncleannes; whē satisfa­ctiōs to God-ward may be wrought & made for mēs trāsgressi­ons. The infectiō of this & the like leprosies maketh Papists au­dacious to do any thing, & then let thē goe barefoote about the Ascensiō weeke, or whip thēselves on good-Friday, let thē go to Rome at a lubiley, or on Pilgrimage at other times, but especial­ly let thē come to cōfessiō & have absolutiō, & they are as cleane from the gilt, as if they had never cōmitted any such facts. This confidence maketh the life of many of your false named Catho­likes to be a cōtagious sinke of execrable lewdenes, no pen be­ing able to paint out their filthines, which as elswhere it may be exemplified, so principally in Rome that singular cage of foule and vncleane birdes. I was once in Oxford present with two pri­soners cōvicted of a murther, the one was named Parrhy, a kins­man of the great traitour Doctour Parrhy; the other was called Richardson. When this Parrhy after many villanies in England and beyond the seas, had finally as a robber murthered vpon the way a drover carying with him good store of mony, & it much grieved his fellow Richardson thē being in cōpany, that Parrhy had slaine the mā, & Richardsons cōscience, as himselfe reported to me & other, could in no sorte be appeased about the fright & remorse therof, Parrhy bad him not dismay himselfe, but prepare as soone as he could to fly after him into Ireland (for thither in­deede the principal murtherer was hastening) and from thence they would to Rome, where he had been with his vncle Doctor Parrhy before, and knewe the fashions of the place, & there hee vndertooke to get a pardon of his Holinesse, and all should be as wel as if it had never beene. This Parrhy tould mee that he had beene a Page to a Cardinal in Rome, an attendant on the Duke of Guize slaine by the commaundement of Henry the third of Fraunce, and of garde to the Duke of Parma, and therefore may bee well supposed to have knowne Popishe fashions. And [Page 405] of certainty he lived a [...] Romanist and so professed himselfe at the time of his execution. I could adde more examples of this nature shevving that Papistes vvant no incouragementes to sinne.

18 On the contrary part we simply and absolutely dehorte our people from all crimes, laying the iudgments of God before such as transgresse in the same. VVe lay vnto them the texte of the Apostle that the Gal. 5: 19: vvorkes of the fleshe are adulterie, fornica­tion, vncleannesse, vvantonnesse, Idolatrie, vvitchcraft [...], hatred debate, emulations, vvrath, contentions, seditions, heresies, envy, mur­thers, drunkennesse, gluttony, and they who doe such thinges shall not inherite the kingdome of God. And that Hebr: 13▪ 4. Whoremongers and adulterers God will iudge. That, as De ieiu­nio christi. Cyprian telleth vs, Fornicatours and adul­terers haue thee Sathan for their suggestour: they shall have thee for their tormentour: revenging flames shall burne both thee and them. Concerning gluttony wee put them in minde of Christs speech, Luc: 21: Take heede vnto your selves least at any time your harte bee oppressed vvith surfetting and drunkennesse and cares of this life, and that daye came on you vn-avvares. And of that in Saint Paule, Rom: 13: 13: Let vs walke honestly as in the day, not in gluttony and drunkennesse, neither in cham­bering nor wantonnesse. To which may bee ioyned that of S. Am­brose, De Noe & Arca c: 9. What is more vnseemely then evermore to bee attending to the belly, which when it is filled is to be emptied, & when it is emptied, is to be filled againe? Touching ambitiō, we stirre mē vp, that they should imitate the modesty of Iohan: 1: 20: Iohn the Baptist, who tooke no honour to himselfe, but resigned it al to his master Christ. And the humi­lity of S. Paul who avouched of himselfe & his felowes, ^r1: Thes: 2: 6: Neither sought we praise of mē, neither of you, nor of others. But especially the meekenesse of Christ our blessed Lord, who being vrged by his kinsmē to shew some Ioh: 7: 3: miraculous works so to make himselfe fa­mous, refused, & would not cōdescēd to their humourous moti­on. And for the repressing of this sin, we cite that of S. Bernard, De consi­derat: ad Eugen: lib. 3: 1: O ambitiō the very crosse of those who be ambitious, how doest thou tor­turing al, please al? Nothing doth vex more bitterly: nothing doth disqui­et more troublesomly, & yet amōg wretched mē there is nothing more or­dinary thē the exercises therof. Lastly for Covetousnes, we say with Christ, Luc: 12: [...]. Take heede and beware of covetousnesse, for though a man [Page 406] haue abundance, yet his life standeth not in his riches. And with Saint Paule, 1. Tim: 6: 10. The love of mony is the roote of all evill, vvhich vvhile some lusted after, they erred from the faith [...] and perced themselves through with many sorrowes. And wee thinke it not amisse to remember the covetous person of that in Saint Augustine, A [...]g. in Psal. 123: Take with thee to hell that vvhich thou hast gotten. VVhat vvilt thou does Thou hast gotten golde, thou hast lost thy faith. After a fevve daies thou depart­est out of this life. The golde vvhich thou hast gotten vvith the losing of thy faith, thou ca [...]st not take with thee. Thy harte which is voide of faith goeth forth to paines, which if it had b [...]n full of faith, should have gone out to a crowne. These & the like doctrines out of the holy Scriptures & Fathers we do daily lay open to our hearers against these sins. Our Sermons and bookes are full of them: and on the other side we stirre them vp to chastity, to sobriety, to temperance, to hu­mility, to bounty toward the poore, and therefore your reporte in this behalfe is a matter verie ordinarie vvith you and yours: but in the presence of God and men, a most malicious slaun­der.

19 You haue bin bold with vs already, making small spare and lesse conscience to laye vpon vs any vniust imputation, and the fowler, the more pleasing to you, and nowe forward you goe in the same, that is in your owne vaine. We must needs contemne S. Basile, S. Chrysostome, S. Hierome, and S. Augustine. Howe farre are we from despising them, the excellent lights of the Primitive Church, the noble instruments of Gods glory in their time, may be gathered from that which I have said before, frō our reading and studying of them, from the manifold printing & revising of them by men of our side, & that in diverse places, from our vsing of them in disputations, & our citing of them in the pulpit. Ne­verthelesse it is not to be expected that your malice should ever saye well. S. Basile wee reckon a famous Bishoppe of the East, Gregor. Naz. orat. 30: brought vp at Athens, & so cōpleted with humane literature, the equal, love, & deere cōpanion of that Gregory Nazianzen, who for his high & mystical knowledge in Divinity was thought worthy to be called with an excellency Theologus: whose worke touching the Basil: Hex [...]merō. 6. daies of the creatiō, seemed so admirable, that S. Ambrose was cōtented to imitate it, yea almost to make himselfe [Page 407] onely a trāslatour of it. The golden streames of S. Chrysostomes eloquence wee hold wel neere incomparable, & his frequent si­militudes & comparisons to be so familiar, & yet so significant and lively, that wee account him scant worthy the name of an eminent preacher to the people, who hath not bin conversant in his works. We thinke S. Hierome for his learning not vnworthy to bee called a wonder of the world: his vniversal knowledge, & especially in the sacred tongues, togither with his ponderous style are honorable among all vvho knovve good letters. Saint Augustine for his iudgement goeth beyond them all: his rea­ding was great as most of al appeereth in De civita­te Dei, one tract of his, being the most noble of all his vvritings: his diligence, his zeale, and acutenesse against heretikes, have vvonne him everlasting prayse: and so doe vvee esteeme of his vvorkes, that we holde him much dis-furnished in the study of Divinity, especially for schoole-learning and grapling with an adversary, who is not wel acquainted with him. Such is the cōtempt that we cary to these reverend persons: nay if it were not for avoiding vnnecessary tediousnesse, vvee should much farther extoll their due-deser­ved commendation, VVhy then doe wee basely regard them? Because vvee bee given to lust and gluttony, and they have vvritten so excellently of the Order, Rule, and Vertues of Monkes. This hangeth wonderfull well togither. Doe all vvho are gi­ven to covetousnesse, ambition, gluttony, and lust, hate monkes and monkery, & al who haue prescribed good rules vnto them? Then your Pope and cardinals, and all the whole sinful Courte of Rome must stand arraigned for that crime: for eche man of a­ny vnderstanding knoweth howe they abound in those vices. And besides if precepts for Monkery bee so contrary to these sinnes, must not the practise of them in a Monkish life be much more remote from them? And vvas it never heard that Nun­ryes or Monasteries of women, haue had many younge bones of little children found in them, which came not thither vvith­out lust: or that many Monkes were little better thē misha­pen gorbellied monstrous Epicures, vvhich arose not without gluttony: or that in the elections of their Priours, Abbots and Bishoppes, there vvas infinite competition, vvith all kinde [Page 408] of striving, banding and canvasing, which was not without am­bition: or that some of their vowed men (especially that fa­mous fellowe mentioned by De mori­bus Ger­mane. Aeneas Sylvius) have lefte great summes of money in secret behinde them, which were nei­ther gotten nor kepte without avarice? Thus nothing can bee more certaine, then that men who loue the sinnes which you name, may be favourers of Monkes, & the Monastical creatures haue & do commonly bath themselues in such noted crimes.

20 VVell, S. Basile hath written many things concerning Monkes. It may be questioned whether he hath or no for there is great doubte whether those bee his bookes vvherein most is contained touching that argument. But if we should allow you your desire, he hath no where saide more of that matter, then in a Serm: Quomodo ornaretur Monach: Sermon where he describeth the qualities of right mōkes, frō which qualities these late ones are very farre distant. And Saint In 1: Tim: Homil: 14. Chrysostome sheweth how holy & religious the Monasteries in his time were, to the which if these later Cloister-mē had kept thē we should haue found lesse to be discōmended in thē. How­beit Chrysostome did not so much admire thē, that hee thought their life to be the only meanes of perfection, or that sanctitie and the true service of God, was scant any where to bee found but in them, which some doting ones in these ages not longe since past, have laboured to insinuate into the mindes of men. But he spake thus freely to the contrary: In Gen. Homil 43: where are they who sae that it is not possible, that a man living in the midst of a city should keepe vertue: but hee had neede of retyrednesse, and a certaine conversation amongst the mountaines, and that he who is over-seer of his owne house, and hath a wife and taketh care of children and servaunts cannot bee in­dued vvith vertue? Thus he supposed that men in a monastery might do well, and so might other also. S. Hierome who vppon some more then ordinary occasion with-drewe himselfe from Rome, and lived more privately in Palestina, grewe to be a Invita [...]i­larionis & saepè. hy­perbolical commender of Heremites, monkes, and cloystered Virgins, which life he blazoneth so with his Rhetorical colours, that every man must confesse that his vvordes goe too farre if they be literally taken. And yet when diverse other were greedy to come from Rome to Hierusalem, that they might live there [Page 409] sequestred as hee did, he disliked it, and saide that Epist: 13: heaven gate did stand open as well to a man in Britaine as at Hierusalem. Then were there in England fewe or no Monasteries at all. As for S. Austen hee describeth the piety and exercises of auncient De mo [...]ib. Eccle Ca­thol. lib: 1: 31: Monkes and Caenobites of both sexes, and writing vppon the Psalmes he saith, In Ps. 99: In that common life of brethren which is in a Mo­nastery, great holy men being daily in hymnes, in prayers, in the prayses of God, doe live therevpon. They meddle much with reading. They labour with their owne handes: thence theymaintaine themselves: they aske not any thing covetously. Whatsoever is brought in vnto them by godly brethren, they vse it with sufficiency & with charity. Nomā doth vsurpe to himselfe any thing, which anothermay not haue. All loue themselves: all sustaine one another. And yet the same S. Austen was not so simple, but that hee spied vnder this habite of holinesse much woolvishnes in his time, as cannot be cōcealed whē he said thus, Epist. 137. I doe plainely confesse vnto your charity, before our Lorde God who is a witnesse vpon my soule, since I began to serve God, as I hardly have found better men then those vvhich haue profited in monasteries, so I have not had triall of vvorse then those vvho have fallen in monasteries. And in his booke writen purposely cōcerning Monkes, hee describeth many monkes of his time to be De opere Monacho­rum c: 28: nought, idle, wandring vp & downe, setting at sale the relikes of martyrs, if they vvere the relikes of mar­tyrs. Notwithstanding our late Votaries do lay closer hold on S. Austen then on any one of the Fathers: for they give it out that he was the founder of the Augustine Friers, and that rabble would derive their petigree from him, as some of the both olde and late Cloisterers woulde drawe their descent from Elias and Iohn the Baptist, which Sozom: 1: 12: Sozomen mencioneth to haue beene talked of in his time. For this purpose they give out that Saint Austen went in his monkishe coole and attire, cleane contrary to that which is reported in his life by Possidonius vvho lived with him. His Possidons in vita Aug, cap: 22: apparrell and shooes and bedde-stuffe, vvere of a moderate and competent quality, neither to neate nor too verie abiect, bicause in these for the most parte men doe either vse insoleutlie to boast them­selves, or to abiecte themselves by both, not seeking those thinges vvhich are Iesus CHRISTES but their ovvne. But this blessed man as I saye kepte the meane, neither declining to the right hand nor [Page 410] to the lefts. Thus saith Possidonius, wherevpon Erasmus fitly asketh this question, Observat. in margine UUhere was thou the letherne girdle and the blacke coule? But besides this, they haue forged certaine Ad fratres in eremo. books in the name of S. Augustine, as if he the Bishoppe of Hippon, had given orders and instructions to his Friers vnder him. But this is as like the worke of S. Austen, as an Owle is like an Eagle, or a Cuckow to a Nightingale, as the improbability of many things vvhich are in it, the basenesse of the matter, the barbarous­nesse of the stile, the foolish and shamelesse narrations, and ma­ny other thinges maye demonstrate to every one who hath but halfe an eie, or one graine of salt in him. Yet so must Popery bee peeced togither, with a faire title at the least although the stuffe be rotten.

21 Heere looke we backe a little to the ancient Monkes: and not any way curiously to trace their originall, were there not e­ven almost in the very time of their first institution many absur­dities and incongruous superstitions which did creepe in, every one by a voluntary will-worship adding what he thought good? Was not the great Sozo. 1: 13 Anthony who had so many followers, a man vtterly vnlearned, and did not he thinke even the least knovv­ledge a hinderance to his speculatiue devotion? Did not the He­remits shew great presumption, when being but simple persons diverse of them, they wilfully refused the society of men, & the fellowship of cōmunion of Saints, by their solitarynesse putting themselues more freely vpō Sathans temptations, by debarring their soules of the word preached, the Sacrament of the Lordes supper received, and the comfort of the Minister or any other Christian brother? Did not the too exquisite severity of Lib: 3: 13: Eusta­thius the Monke (who is supposed to be the true authour of the book intituled [...], & cōmonly reported to be S. Basiles, where so much is of the life & discipline of Monks) grow to absurd observations, and such as were quite disagreeing from the laws Ecclesia­stical? There are reckoned vp many opinions of him & his scho­lers, which were condemned in a Councel at Gangrae, as that he disliked mariage, would not pray in their houses who were wed­ded, despised maryed Priests, thought rich men to be shut out frō heaven, detested those who eate flesh, and other such like mon­kish [Page 411] imaginations. Some women perswaded by him or his, leste their husbands, put on mens apparrel, and fell to adultery. These persons lived about the time of the fore-named Fathers, who in their bookes cōmended the good parts which were then exerci­sed, & doubtles gaue those precepts which they did giue, to re­forme the abuses. And as succeeding generations came on, did not the superstitious devises of Monks increase, as is to be seene in Evagrius? Some did shut themselues into little houses, Evagr: hist Eccl. l: 1: 21: which were so low & narrow, as that they could neither stand vpright in thē, nor ly otherwise then double. Some both men & women living in the wildernes did onely cover their privities, & for the rest went naked both in the hottest & coldest wether. Some re­fusing all foode of men, did eate only the grasse of the ground, & would not endure the presence of any persons, but woulde run away and hide them in the rockes. Other counterfeyting them­selues fooles laboured to bee without all passion. These woulde not refuse to goe into tavernes or brothel-houses: they would be in bathes with women, and as among men they lived as men, so among women they were as women. Yet did those ages so doate vpon monkery, that even these were commended, and helde for holy men. Thus if wee take these olde lads in their best times, they had imperfections inough, but of the good qualities which were in any of them those vvho came after embraced but a few. Onely the ignorance of Anthony went almost currant through all: that was as good as hereditary to them. But the olde de­voute service of God was of late turned into hypocrisie, fasting into perpetuall belly-cheere, scarcity and penury into aboun­dance and lordly possessions of landes, charity was converted into hart-burning and envie, humility into pride, sobriety into Venereous and Sodomitish lust: their piety was but formality, their idolatry was infinite. Thus it grewe forwarde by little and little, till it came to the height of vngodlinesse. Howe soone this beganne maye bee gathered by him vvho vvrote the treatise commonlye called Cyprians, De duplici martyrio, There vvee thus read, Cypr. de dupl. mart. Not anie deserte place, sacke-cloath for a garment, pulse for meate, neither fasting nor lying on the bare grounde doe make a per­fect monke: Under these covers lyeth hid sometimes a minde verie [Page 412] worldly, which is so discovered if they bee called to any Ecclesiasticall of­fice. There you shall see some of them most easilie to bee overcome vvith delightes, more impatient of iniuries, more desirous of vengance then a­ny other of the ordinarie people. What is the cause? Because they haue more exercised the body then the minde. This began betimes: but as they grew in yeares, so many of them grew in horrible wicked­nes. It is a long while since Eccl. Hist. Ang: l: 4: 25 Beda lived: yet in his Ecclesiasticall story he mencioneth that a Monastery called Colindiurbem was consumed with fire, for the lasciviousnes and wantonnes which was there founde in both men and women. So did God punish them. But in S. Bernards time a carnall kinde of behavior had o­ver-growne almost all, which caused him earnestly & passionat­ly to complaine, Bernard. in cena Do­mini cap: 3. How many monkes be there in S. Benedicts monaste­ry, who do laugh when other men doe mourne; who reioice when other are sadde. In their bodie they are cloistered, in their mindes wanderers and never standing still. Slow to their reading, tardy to their praying, in the Church sleeping, in the refectory vvaking. For their long watchings grie­ving, but for their long bankets reioicing. This was the mortified life of many monkes in that holy mans daies. And how this was af­terwarde amended in England, may bee testified by the survey, which by Visitation of the Kings Commissioners was taken vn­der King Henry the eight of famous memory, when by othes of the religious persons themselues, much Sodomitry & other vn­cleannesse was detected, and afterwarde was published to the world by a printed booke, some notes wherof are to be seene in the French Apology of Cap. 21: Henry Stephanus made in defence of Herodotus. Such small affinity had and haue your late monkes, with those of whom we read among the old writers. But for ab­surdities of doctrin, especially in commending themselues, they go beyond all those of auncient times, as I will instaunce in the Franciscanes, who maintaine these points which yet are disliked by some other Papists, and by some other excused or defended. I will cite them out of a great Papist and a Capuchine, Frier Gre­gory of Naples. [...] That the rule of S. Francis, is that life of Iesus Christ which himselfe observed in this world, & imposed on his In libris corrigēdis. Apostles to keepe, and caused to be written in the Gospels, and that whosoever doe contradict this rule of S. Francis, do contra­dict [Page 413] or impugne the Gospel of Christ, and if they persevere in it, are heretikes▪ That S. Frauncis is the Angell of whom it is said in the Apocalyps, I saw another Angell having the seale of the li­ving God. That no man can bee damned who weareth the ha­bite of S. Francis (that is to say, saith this favourable interpreter, who togither with the habite beareth workes appertaining to salvation) That once a yeare S. Francis descendeth to Purgatory, and draweth out from thence their soules who living were of his order, and leadeth them to Paradise (that is saith the interpreter Capuchine, he goeth not actually in his owne person, but by his vertue, in as much as hee intreateth the Maiestye of God for his brethren, & Gods clemency giveth him pardon for some souls.) That the order of S. Francis shal endure for ever. Thus they teach their Novices, bring vp their Friers and preach vnto the people. There must needs be much vertue, goodnes, and mortification, where they speake so hypocritically for themselues, & so basely or blasphemously for Christ our Saviour.

AND generally vvhereas the Doctrine of the auncient Fathers, is cleane contrary to the Doctrine of Protestants, no marveile though they be reiected by them as they ever haue beene of Heretikes. And al­though Iewell in his Sermon at Pauls Crosse most impudently challenged the Catholikes to bring any thing for certaine points of their Religion out of the Doctours of the first sixe hundred yeares, yet Laurence Hum­frey Humfridus in vita lew▪ [...]lli. his pu [...] fellow confessed that he gaue, & granted to the Papists more then was meete and was to himselfe iniurious &c. and so hee confessed a­gainst his companion, that the Fathers of the Primitiue Church were on the Papists side, and consequently not on theirs.

22 THis may be put in the Catalogue of your Transcendēt vntruthes, which keepe within no compasse: in which behalfe you are inferiour to no Papist that hath wrote without a vizarde. Your generally here standeth in steede of your olde and [Page 414] auncient All so much frequented by you. Then the Doctrine of the auncient Fathers is not only contrary but cleane contrary to the doctrine of Protestants. Or else you cānot tell. For if you were well opposed, I feare that scholer-like you haue read over but a fewe of those Fathers, and that causeth you to give both so bold & so blind a sentence. But it is inough for men no deeper in Popery then you are, to know the names of some of the Fathers, but for their iudgment cōcerning thē, to take that vp by tradition from their Superiours or Readers, who vpō ignorāce or malice speake what they list. You cite sometimes the Magdeburgēses. And cā ­not you in those Centuries of yeeres wherin the old Doctors li­ved, find the Magdeburgenses citing some of the Fathers, vvho in all questioned points of religiō speake for vs & oppugne your Papistry. Neither can you find this in any other Protestant, that we want not the auncients to take our part? Hath Peter Martyr no such thing in all his works, nor Chemnitius, nor Calvin, or Bi­shop Iewel whō anōe you name, or that D: Hūfrey: worthy mā who wrote his life, or Bucer, or M. Nowel? Is S. Cyprian yours in the matter of the Primacy, when he doth not only call Epistol: 3: Cornelius the Ro­mane Bishop by the appellatiō of brother, not of Lord nor supe­riour, but in direct termes cutteth the cable whervnto the anker of supremacy is tied. Thus he hath: De sim­plicitat. praelatorū. Although after his resurrectiō, he giveth equal power to al his Apostles, & saith, As my father sent mee &c. yet that he might manifest an vnity, he disposed by his owne authori­ty the originall of vnity beginning of one. That in sooth were the rest of the Apostles which Peter was, endued with the like felowship both of honor & power: but the beginning commeth frō an vnity that the Church may bee shewed to be one. Yea doth your owne Romane Bishoppe Gregory herein ioine with you? That I may not stand any longer on par­ticulars, but referre questiōs to their places, where you give occa­siō to hādle thē, I say but this in breefe, is there any anciēt Father Greeke or Latin, who ever taught as you teach cōcerning the ad­missiō Divinar: Instit. lib. 2: 19: & adoratiō of images, which Lactantius so oppugneth, as y^e be saith, that [...] there is no doubt but there is no religiō, whersoever is si­mulachrū animage, which is to be vnderstood▪ if it be retained to a religious vse. In Epist: ad Ioan. Episcop: Hierosolo­mita [...] ▪ Epiphanius going through a Church where was a veile hanging which had in it the picture of Christ, or of some [Page 415] Saint, tore it as being in the church cōtrary to the Scriptures, and whē he had done, of his own charge sēt thither another veile. Nay Lib: 7: Epist 109. Gregory himself although he could like that images shold be in churches, to be as books to the ignorāt, yet he would not endure that they shold be adored. For this point thē I could wish you y^e after your presūptuous definitiō, as Claud: the Emperour of whō De morte Claud [...] ▪ Seneca merily could say, that he was such a Iudge as could de­termine a cause, hearing but one party speake, & sometimes nei­ther, you would doe that which it may bee feared you haue not done before, that is, fall to reading of the Fathers, & many times you shal meete w^t that which cānot chuse but gawle you, & drive you to Bellarmines sophisticatiōs, not to yeeld to a truth, but to see how you cā cavil against it. What you say here against Bishop Iewel that reverēd mā, & one of the hartbreakers of your Pope­ry, Ration. 5 Cāpiā had before you, where by D. Whitaker it received his answere. And before him, Motiv. 14 [...]: Bristow had it, who was also answe­red by D. Fulke: yet so oft as you stil cite it, so oft must we refute it. Truth the it is that the excellent servant of God M. Laur: Hum [...]d. in vita Iuel Iewel not impudētly, but Christiāly, & vpō great deliberatiō & advise did chalēge any English Papist to shew out of the Fathers of the first sixe hundred yeeres diverse pointes of Popery, as their private Masse, or that the cōmuniō was administred but in one kind, or that publike praiers were saide in a language not vnderstood, or that the Pope was called the vniversal Bishop, or the head of the church, or that mē were taught this faith, that the body of Christ was contained in the Sacrament substantially, really, corporally, carnally, or that Christes body was at once in a thousand places, or that there was elevatiō & adoratiō of the Eucharist, & diverse such other matters, which the Bishop did constantly deny, not to be knowen or taught in those times of the first Church. The substance of this An. 1560: Sermon made at Paules Crosse did D. Hum­frey rehearse, writing the life of the saide M. Iewel, and after­ward interserting his ovvne iudgement concerning many mat­ters in difference, hee groweth to this head that the onely ex­acte way of reformation of abuses & of determination of truth, is the vvorde of GOD; that it alone is to bee made the iudge. Vppon vvhich insisting, hee inferreth that therefore Maister [Page 416] Iewell gaue too much, and yeelded to the Papistes more then equity, and was too iniurious to himselfe, when hee tooke not the surer, easier & shorter course of triall by the Scriptures alone, but gaue larger scope of expatiating into the Councels & Fathers. But most ab­surdly is your Popish conclusion gathered out of this, that ther­fore D. Humfrey knew or confessed that the Fathers of the Pri­mitiue Church were against vs and him. You should rather haue inferred thus much, that D. Humfrey thought that M. Iewell had a sure matter in hand, when needing to referre all but to the Scriptures, he appealed also to the Fathers; that both by the wit­nesse of God and man he might avouch his assertions. In case of triall for land, we know that authentical writings and evidences are the best and most absolute meanes of deciding right: but if he who oweth and possesseth the writings, knowing the integritie of his cause, shall not refuse also to haue his quarrell tried by the testimonies of indifferēt mē in the coūtrey, he hath departed so much from his owne right, and done more then he need to do. If then his friend shoulde say, that therein hee hath yeelded to more then meete, and did himselfe a wrong by it, by yeelding his adversary many exceptions, wheras he might haue tyed him onely to one, should not a stander by make an absurd collectiō, if he should gather vpon this, that the litigants friend savv well that the witnesse of the Countrey would goe against him? And especially when he whom it most concerneth, shall by the testi­mony of those to whom he appealed, make good all his assevera­tions? This was the Bishops case, and no otherwise then thus was it reported by the Venerable Doctour. And albeit this may ap­peare to bee thus to every one who will read the narration, yet because Bristow, Campian and you take it all one from another, and other may yet take it farther, & your people be still abused, as if so learned a man as D. Humfrey, had both disliked M. Iewels words, and given sentence touching the Fathers against vs; for the farther satisfaction of the Reader, I desire these thinges to be marked. First that Doctour Humfrey in that booke concerning M. Iewell, as also in his Secund: pars Iesuitis other against Campian, doth frequent­ly cite the old Fathers for vs, in all questions of difference that occurre, Ergo he doth not thinke that the Doctors are all on the [Page 417] Papists side, and not on the Protestants. Secondly that in'all his Lectures, Disputations and Sermons he was most copious in ci­ting and alleaging the ol [...] Fathers, to confirme our doctrine and to enervate Papistry, as not only we may remember who often heard him, but divers of our Fugitiues now beyond the Seas, who were of his time in this Vniversity. Thirdly to this particu­lar, that in the very Fol. 124: place where he speaketh of the Bishops chal­lenge, he putteth these wordes before; And here is necessarily to be repeated that Protestation or denunciation, which was heard out of this place of Paules Crosse, which our adversaries doe calumniate to bee vaine and frivolow: which notwithstanding they will not deny to be true who are of the better sort of wit, and of more excellent learning. Can a man speake plainer then the Doctour doth here, iustifying that to be true which the Bishop said, and calling the adversaries ex­ception to the Challenge, a calumniation? Fourthly that in the Fol. 212: place where he saith that M. Iewell yeelded too much, when he went to farther triall then the Bible, he subioineth this, Which he did not willingly, but yet he did it not besides the purpose, that he might s [...]ay you with the testimonie of your Fathers as with your owne sword. He calleth the Fathers yours, not because he thought them so to be, but as Ironically, because you bragge of them as if they vvere yours. Thus doeth the vanity of this slaunderous cavill appeare to every one who will not wilfully close his eies against truth: & then for all this forged obiection, the Fathers shall as wel be ours as yours.

ANdyet because they haue found by experience, that to teach Do­ctrine contrary to the anciant Fathers, soundeth but badly in the peoples eares, in their Sermons they gladly nowe and then alleage the au­thoritie of some Doctour or Father, when they can by any meanes wringe or wrest any p [...]ece of a sentence so, as it may seeme to make for them. And indeed he who alleadgeth the Doctours most, is most praised of the audi­ence, as you well know, which is a pittifull thing in them and ridiculous in the Preacher, who cānot but know, (if he haue read any of them himselfe) that the Fathers detest vtterly that Doctrine which he wresteth them to [Page 418] confirme, and in the meane time the poore audience thinketh that they were of this new Religion, whose simplicity is therein most pitifully abused by the Preacher.

23 YOur hatred to the Gospell maketh you easily giue sini­ster interpretations to our actions. We mencion the Fa­thers in our Sermons, to shew that our expositions of Scripture are not singular and 2. Pet. 1. 20 private interpretations, but such as were received in the Primitiue Church; & to convince the Antichri­stian enemy, who like Iack Bragger boasteth of antiquity, when in comparison of Gods booke, his beliefe is nothing else but no­veltie. It is not because wee woulde blinde the eies of the peo­ple, or stoppe their eares, since as you say to teach doctrine contrary to those Auncients soundeth ill: for if there be iust cause, we plain­ly and evidently shew where we dissent from them. Which wee doe being warranted by the word of God, which Galat: 1: 8 teacheth vs that if an Angell come from heaven, and preach otherwise then the Apostles haue preached, we should hold him accursed: And incited there vnto by some of the Fathers themselues in open wordes, by other in their Orthodoxe meaning. For what Father woulde dare to thinke, that his speeches shoulde over-rule the Scripture? As for wringing and wresting and straining, we detest it. Gods truth needeth not to be vpheld by vntruthes. We leaue that to the masons of the Popes part, who had need vse such sup­porters to vnder-proppe the rotten and dayly falling ruines of their Antichristian kingdome. Now whereas you tell vs that he is most praised of the Auditory, who most alleageth the Doctors, you had need to help your selfe with more then one distinctiō. For among sober & wise hearers, it is wel accepted when the Fa­thers are cited to good purpose & orderly: but some other there be who thinke themselues no meane folkes, which on a humo­rousnesse and because their Preachers are ignorant that way, & they, I meane those ignorant Pastours haue taught them so, like not to heare them quoted in the Pulpit. Againe the wisest con­gregation doth not approue of the preposterous vsing of them, [Page 419] as vvhen they are cited frequently and yet onely in Latine or Greeke, and not Englished to the edification of the people, vvhich Saint 1. Cor. 14. 26. Paule vvoulde ever have aimed at: Or vvhen they are hudled one vppon anothers necke vvithout cause; Or vvhen they are multiplyed rather for ambition, then vppon de­sire of fruite or vtility. You might have considered vppon these thinges, but you vvith the Crocodile or Hyena fall rather to a counterfeite commiseration, that it is a pityfull thinge, that the people shoulde bee made beleeve, that the Doctours vvere of the same opinion that vvee are in religion. You may doe well to taxe those men, who in their Sermons have abused or perverted the sentences of those grave and learned persona­ges. Of the two you should rather pity your Papisticall Congre­gations, vvhich are little troubled vvith Scriptures or Do­ctours, but vvith such miracles and fabulous Legendes, as your Friers doe lay before them, and nothing else. So are they turned to puddle waters, in steede of the cleere streaming foun­taine of the vvater of life. That our Preachers who have reade any of the Fathers themselves, doe know that they make against that vvhich they preache, is an idle suspicious surmise of your owne, and nothing else but a falling backe by a Nugatio to that vvhich you formerly have spoken. It is one of the highest breaches of conscience, for a man standing in the place of God to speake to the people, there to vrge that vvhich in his ovvne harte hee knoweth contrary to truth. This is inough for Bellar­mine and such desperate wretches, vvho for a Cardinals hat or some other expectation, have solde themselves and their soules to their LORD God the Pope, and his LORD God the Devill.

24 I haue all this time traced the steppes of a bolde and ma­licious adversary: but now I rather apply my pen to give satisfaction to the doubtfull Reader concerning this maine question. Our Popishe writers speake in grosse of the Fa­thers, but what themselves in speciall determine of them, they dare not open. So much paines therefore [...]s is expedient I pur­pose to take for them, First then I aske them, vvill they [Page 420] haue vs accept of all thinges, which these learned Doctors haue taught? Graunt this, and then many bee the heresies vvhich wee must maintaine. hovve many were there of them, vvhich imagined that the godly after the resurrection should raigne on the earth, and that but for the space of a thousand yeeres, in all worldly felicity, which is the errour of the Chiliasts or Millena­ry heretikes? So dreamed Irenaeus, and is taxed for it by Eccl. Hist. lib: 3: 33: Euse­bius. In this conceite also was Tertullian drenched as appeereth by his disputation against Lib. 3. Marcion. VVith the same also vvas Iustinus Martyr tainted, as is evident by his Dialoge with Tryphon the Iewe. Yea this opinion descended so lowe, that Lactantius vvho lived in the daies of Constantine the Greate, vvas not Divin: Iu­stit: l. 7: 14 [...] free from it. Doth not Eusebius Eccl. Hist: lib: 6. 11. note it concerning Clemens Alexandrinus, that hee doth much comment vpon Apocryphal matters, as if they were Scripture? How many were the heresies of Tertullian, while in all his later workes, he raveth vpon the Paraclete of Montanus, to the which fantasticall opi­nion hee was most grossely vvedded? One vvhile he thinketh that Tertul. de Monoga­mia. second mariages are altogither vnlawfull in the Church. Another while he frameth a De [...]uga in persecu­tione. booke, that it is not lawful for any Christian to flie at all in the heate of persecution. Saint Epist 157: Austen observeth truly of him, that hee contended that the soules of men were not spirits but bodies, & that they haue their original of bodily seedes. Yea so farre he went awry, that Contr. Helvidium. Hierome saith of him plainely, Of Tertullian I say nothing more, but that hee was not a man of the Church. VVith him I ioyne Origene, who con­tinually almost in his commentaries on the old Testament, doth not only by Allegories pervert the literal sence of the stories, but sometimes in expresse termes saith, that In Exod. Hom. 1: 2 6: in the literal meaning the narration cānot be true, which is an exceeding iniury to the Spirit of God. Another while he will have the De Prin­cipij. l. 3. 6. Devill & all the Reprobates, albeit they suffer hel torments for a space, yet at the last to be saved, which doctrine In [...]on. 3 Hierome doth most iustly per­stringe; howsoever in another treatise he give him his due com­mēdation for some matters, saying, Libr: N [...] ­min He­braicor: No man but hee vvho is igno­raunt doth denye, that Origene after the Apostles vvas a maister of the Church. But for that opinion Lib 2: Ex pol. in 1: Regum. Gregory did not suffer [Page 421] him to goe vvithout his censure. Origene saith hee, vvhile hee would see without the word of the Lord, the Lord appeering, hee savve the cloude inordinately, because hee vvas afraid at the appeering of the fire. For while denying the very least iustice of God, he did proclaime his clemency to bee more then needed, hee affirmed that hee woulde not onely spare condemned men, but also one daye hee woulde deliver the reprobate Angels from everlasting punishment. Another of Commēt: super lo­hannem: Origens fan­cyes vvas that Christ did dye not to redeeme men onely but the starres of heaven. He who would see more of his errours may reade In Anco­rat [...] Epiphanius, where he passeth not without his taxe: but especially let him looke Lib: 1: Theophilus Alexandrinus, where his heresies are cited out of his owne works, & there he hath the se­verest sētence that may be pronoūced vpō him, which is only in Gods hād to give. Caesarius the brother of Gregory Nazianzen hath little better opinion of him, when hee first termeth him Diolog. 3: a vaine trifler, but afterward impious and an idle talker. Breefely the famous sentence of Contr. Haeres. cap: 23. & 24: Vincentius Lytinensis concerning him & Tertullian biteth deepe, as the Reader may see if hee please to looke into that Authour.

25 I come now to some other of these worthy men, but yet still men, and therfore may trippe in their pathes. Cyprian was a good Bishoppe, and a Martyr for the truth of CHRIST: yet Concil: Carthag: in Cypriā [...] Euseb: Ec­cle: Hist lib 7 [...]3: hee and diverse Africane Bishoppes swarved from the truth, in the question of rebaptizing those vvho vvere baptized by He­retikes. Of him Saint Augustine vvriteth thus, Lib: 1: de Baptism. [...] contra Do­natistas. UUhereas that holy man Cyprian thinking otherwise of Baptisme then the matter vvas (which afterward vvas handled and by most diligent consideration esta­blished) did continue in the Catholike Unity, it vvas both recompen­ced by the plentifulnesse of his charitie, and vvas purged by: be cutting booke of his suffering. VVhat a straunge imagination was that of Lib: 10: de Trinitat. Hilary, when hee supposed that all the hurtes and vvoundes, did no more touch or affect Christ on the Crosse or else-where, thē blows do the aire or the water, or prickīg the fire. He thought that there was a violēce offered on the adversaries parte, but no smart or paine of Christs part. This strange supposal doth Part: 3: quaest: 15: art. 5: Tho­mas Aquinas labour to excuse in Hilary; but the blemishe is so plaine, as that by no meanes it can bee covered. VVhat [Page 422] Lactantius thought of the holy Ghost I had leifer sette downe in Hieromes vvoordes then in mine owne. Epist: 65 [...] Lactantius in his bookes, but especiallye in his Epistles ad Demetrianum, doth altoge­ther denye the substance of the holye Ghost, and by a levvishe er­rour doth saye, that it is either referred to the Father or to the Sonne, and that the sanctification of either person is intended vnder the name of it, that is, the holye Ghost. And had not Hierome him­selfe those thinges in him, vvhich cannot bee defended? As his Contr. lo­vinian. immoderate preferring of single life before mariage, and his Aug: Epist. 19: pertinacious advouching that Saint Peter did not de­serve to bee reprehended by Saint Paule for Gal: 2: 12: halting vvith the Iewes. Chrysostome besides his too forward testimonies for free­will, which Papistes themselves dislike, is of minde & Hom: 3: in Epist: ad Philip. & Hom 11. in 1. ad Cor. teacheth it, that although men dye in sinne, be condemned and in hell, yet almes and ostrings & other helpes of praiers done by them who are alive, may ease them and diminishe some measure of their tormentes. Neither doth Saint Augustine want his imper­fections, as whē he determineth that all children dying without Epist 28. Baptisme go to the flames of hell, which the Romanistes nowe wil not admit: And whē he liketh their iudgment, who thought that vpon hazard of their salvation the Epist. 106. & 107. Eucharist was to be ad­ministred to Infantes. Many more such examples might be ad­ded of vndoubted errours, in these learned mē, wherin I trust no Papist is so absurde, as to prescribe vnto vs that we should ioyne with them, least of good Christians we should become lovers of errours, and in some things embracers of heresyes. Besides these vnquestionable over-sightes, it falleth out ofte, that the Fathers do some of them differ, nay are contrary or cōtradictory in iudg­ment, some to other, and some to themselves. What shal we doe in this case, or whom shal we follow, if the bare authority of these writers be of it selfe so stronge, as they would make it? I will not instaunce in those hereticall or erroneous opinions before na­med, where some of them affirme and some Orthodoxely deny, and a Christian man without the Scripture can give no decision vvhether is in the right: Cull out that onely for example sake, vvhere Hierome and Augustine doe so differ, about Saint Peter and Saint Paule, vvhether of them did amisse; hovve [Page 423] should we know but by the Apostles writing? But to whether of them in this contradictorie case shulde vvee give credite, if they vvere considered in themselves? Neither vvill I in­staunce matters of meane respecte, as hovve Saint Quaest. 123 sup Ex­od. & qu. 81. sup. Levitie. Austen crosseth himselfe in this question, whither the Cydaris vvere an attire for the heade or no: Or vvhether Plato spake personal­ly vvith the Prophet Ieremie in Aegypte and learned of him many thinges, or no, to the which being the iudgement of Am­brose in one De doctr. Christ: lib: 2: 28 place hee assenteth, but in De civit: Dei l. 8: 11: another hee speak­eth against it. But I rather referre men to their differences a­bout the Canonicall Scripture, vvhich Respons­ad Ration. 8. before I have shew­ed; and vvhich is a matter of greate momente. Or to those thinges which Saint Augustine himselfe In libr: Retract: retracted in his owne vvorkes. Or to those different iudgementes in capitall causes, vvhich Bellarmine citeth in infinite places, and Sixtus In Biblio­the casācta. Se­nensis in verie many. Or to such like as that of Gregory, where one vvhile hee saith that Cornelius by those Homil: 9: in Ezechi. vvorkes vvhich vvent before his faith did merite that hee afterward might haue faith, and another Homil: 19. while hee expressely denyeth that, and saith that by faith hee came to his workes. Now if there bee such doubtes as these in the Fathers, or other like, and we cannot be resolved out of these Doctours; or if question be of the verity of their doctrine, whither must we haue recourse? The Papistes will say to the Church of Rome, that is to thēselves, but the Fathers wil tell vs to the word of God, as forth-with I shal shewe: which every way discovereth the base weakenesse of the vnCatholike Church, since the Doctors are not the touch-stone of truth, but are themselves to be tried by some thing else: they are not selfe­sufficient, but all their words are to be weighed in the ballaunce of the Sanctuarie, where if they beare waight, they are to be ac­cepted, if they be found too light, they are to bee reiected. Our ground then and foundation is not in these men, although ne­ver so worthy men, but the booke of God must make the finall and irrefragable decision.

26 For the better establishing of this, let vs heare the Fathers themselves speake. I put Saint Augustine in the foremost ranke, as one vvho had most occasion to deale in this argument. In [Page 424] the controversie betweene him & Hierome, he is Epist. 19: pressed with the authority of other writers. Hee answereth, I doe confesse vnto your charity, I have learned to give this reverence and honour to those onely bookes of Scriptures which are called Canonicall, that I doe most firmely beleeve, that no authour of them did erre in writing any thing. To other then hee taketh exception. Hee speaketh elsewhere plainer: Epist. 48. The Fathers are not so reade, as if a testimony might bee so drawne out of them, that it were not lawfull to thinke contrariwise, if they have otherwise suppo [...]ed then the truth did require. And againe, Epist. 113. I have put the opinions of so great men &c. not that I doe thinke them to be followed as the Canonical Scripture. And whē he was hard pres­sed in the Controversie of Baptisme with the authority of Cy­prian, hee aunswereth Cresconius, Contr. Crescen. Grāmatic: lib: 2 [...]. I esteeme the letters of Cy­prian not as Canonicall, but I consider them out of the Canonicall, and looke vvhat agreeth in them to the authoritie of the Divine Scrip­tures, vvith praise to him I receive, vvhat doth not agree, vvith his good leave I refuse. And afterward, Because that is not Canonical, vvhich thou r [...]est, vvith that libertie to vvhich GOD hath called vs, I doe not receive that vvhich savoured amisse of that man vvhose praise I cannot attaine vnto, to vvhose many letters I doe not compare my vvritinges, vvhose vvitte I lone, vvith vvhose speech I am de­lighted. whose charity I doe admire, whose martyrdome I hold venerable. Can ought be delivered more significantly, and to our purpose then this is? And least that any man should suspect that hee was more strictly laced toward other men, thē he would have other toward him, he frequently writeth as modestly of himselfe, as he doth wisely of those who went before him. As to Epistol: 7: Marcellinus, I therefore doe confesse my selfe to bee of the number of them, vvhe in profiting doe vvrite, and in vvriting doe profite. VVherevpon if any thing bee set dovvne by mee, either vnvvarily or vnlearnedly, which not onely by other men vvho can see that, may bee vvorthily reprehen­ded, but also of my selfe, because even I at least aftervvard ought to see it, if I doe profite, it is neither to be wondered at, nor to be grieved at, but rather it is to be pardonned, and to bee reioyced at, not because there hath beene an errour, but because it hath beene disliked. For that man doth too perversely love himselfe, vvho vvill have other men also to erre, that his errour may lye hid. And to Fortunatianus, Epist. 111. Neither [Page 425] are wee to account the disputations, of any men, though Catholikes and commendable persons, as the Canonical Scriptures: that saving the ho­nour which is due vnto those men, it is not lawfull for vs to dislike and re­ict some thing in their writings, if perhaps we shal find that they haue o­therwise thought, then that truth hath, which by the helpe of God, hath either bin vnderstood by others, or by vs. Such a one am I in the writings of other mens & such would I have the vnderstāders of mine to be. And handling the high mysteries of the Trinity, he saith, De Tri­nit at: l. 1. 3: Whosoever readeth these things, where he is alike sure, let him go on with me, where alike hee doubteth let him seeke vvith mee, vvhere hee knovveth his errour let him returne to me, vvhere hee spieth mine, let him recall mee. And in the same booke else-where, Lib. [...]. in p [...]aefation: Let the one not love mee more then the Catholike faith, let the other not love himselfe more then the Catholike truth, As I say to the one, doe not attend on my writings as on the Canonical Scriptures &c. This is the minde of Saint Au­gustine.

27 Neither doth this renoumed servant of God heerein goe alone, but he hath sufficient of others, who in this be halfe do se­cond him. The great Dionysius, not the supposed Areopagite, but another worthy man since his time, did long ago informe vs in this doubt: Eusebius bringeth him in speaking thus: Eccles. Hist l 7: 19: I do very much reverence Nepos, yet truth is the neerest friend of all, and ought deservedly to be preferred before all. And if any thing be rightly spoken, that is to be commended without envy, but if any thing bee committed to writing not sincerely and soundly, this with diligence is to bee sought out, & to be reprooved. To this effect also are the words of S, Hierome: I Epist: 62: doe know that I my selfe doe esteeme of the Apostles in one sort, and of other writers in another sort: that the first do alwaies speake the truth, and the latter as men doe in some things erre. Adde to these that of Theodoret, who saith that, Dialog. 3. the Fathers of the Church by a vehe­ [...]ent contention against their adversaries doe many times exceede mea­sure. Thus they vse to do who plant trees. For whē they see a tree growne crooked, they do not onely set him vp vpright, but they doe bende him to the other side, that by too much inclining to the contrarie parte, they may cause it to bee straight. This is the iudgement of the aunci­ent vvriters themselves, concerning the workes of one another, that they go too farre, that they do & may erre, that they are not [Page 426] to be ioyned in equal estimatiō with the Canonical Scriptures: And therfore what reasō have we not to vse our Christiā liberty in examinig of thē by the rule of truth, so to embrace that which is right, and to repudiate that which is of another nature? I doe marveile then what advauntage our Papistes doe thinke they can gette, by craking vppon the names of these, since their authority even in their ovvne iudgement is not absolute and Dictatourlike, but vvith a reference, and meerely dependent vppon a higher commaunder: In which case if they stoope to the scepter of the LORD, wee willingly and readily admit of them vvith due honour and reverence; othervvise we leaue them. But the tryer of them we hold to be the Canonical Scrip­ture of the olde and new Testament.

28 On the other side how the Synagogue of Rome (speake they of these Doctours never so faire) doe deale vvith them, it is good that every vveake Christian shoulde know. For how­soever they in their vvordes pretende greate honour to them. yet in truth they are the onely men in the vvorlde, vvho offer notorious vvronge to them. For first, how are they debased, when such lights of the Easterne and VVesterne Church, men so fraughted vvith knowledge, and adorned vvith eloquence, shall not onely bee sette in comparison vvith, but set after the Popes barbarous champion Thomas of Aquine? Noble Hierome thou hast vvell studyed, and renoumed Augustine thou hast wel laboured, to come to such a preferment in thine old age. For one of the Popes Aug: Hū ­naeus in praefat, Sūmm. A­quinat. ad, Pium 5. Pontific. Innocents, did so much esteeme the learning of Aquinas, that he doubted not to give vnto him the first place after the Canonical Scripture. Which albeit originally it be but the censure of one man, yet knowe that he was Bishoppe of Rome, and when it is prefixed before the Summe of Aquinas, & dedicated to another Pope, it is intended to bee of credite, and that more must be of that mind if they thēselues wil. And Icon. & vite Papar. in Pio: 5: since that time Pius the 5. hath placed the same Aquinas fifte among the Doctou [...] of the Church, to the greate preiudice and disho­nour of all the rest. Secondly vvhat dishonour doe they, to the renoumed company of those admirable men, vvhen they ranke vvith them, and as it vvere thrust vppon them, base [Page 427] companions, a bastardlye broode, vvhich have no learning, iudgement or anie other eminente parte to commend them? Of their counterfeit Dionysius Areopagite I have spoken be­fore. But Maister Harding vvriting against Bishoppe lewel citeth in his greatest matters, L. Hum­fry. in vita luelli. Amphilochius, Abdias, Leon­tius, Martialis Simon Metaphrastes, Hippolitus, Vin­centius, Clemens, Cletus, Anacletus, counterfeit Athana­sius and Basile, and other authours of Decretall Epistles in steede of true Fathers. And Bellarmine in his disputes beeing many times neere driven, is glad to flye to such, as for a stake to a hedge. This is to extenuate the reputation of those greate starres, and to make them to be meanely thought of, because those vvith vvhomethey are sorted, deserve no better. It is the disgrace of the best, when those of vvorst qualitye are coupled vvith them as their fellowes. In the time of Bodin: de Rep: l: 5: 4: Pope Iulius the thirde the Cardinals of Rome knevve this; vvhen seeing the Pope to create Montanus Cardinall, one vvhome for his plea­sures sake he had taken out of a most beggerly estate, & brought him vp at home, they ioyned in a request and motion in be­halfe of the College of Cardinals, that hee vvould not suffer that honourable degree to bee stayned by the presence of so contemtible a man, vvho had neither vvealth, nor vvise­dome, nor vertue, nor parentage, nor learning, nor any thinge to commend him. Indeed the Pope there had thē at the advātage, for he was able to beate them with their own rodde, & therfore replyed vpon them, VVhat vertues I pray you, what learning, vvhat parentage, what good qualities vvas I famous for, vvhen you made mee Pope? His personall reproofe to them vvas iust; othervvise their sute had beene reasonable: for such a consort coulde no vvay honest their College; as these silye Popishe authours doe no way adde estimation, but manifold dis-reputation to the Fa­thers. Thirdly howe shamefully did the predecessours of these late Papists, in the time of darke ignorance foist in parts of tracts, and whole treatises into the volumes of the Fathers, so labouring that new writings might runne currant for old, vpstarts for natu­ral, & very draffe & chaffe for good corne. There is seāt any one of the Fathers which hath escaped free herein, not Cyprian, not [Page 428] Austen, not Hierome, out of whose works many bookes & pee­ces may be pulled, which for the matter or style doe no more re­fēble those authours, thē Aesops Asse did a Liō, whē he had got that Roial beasts skinne on his backe. The Popish Censurers in their editiōs do cōfesse so much, but Erasmus a mā who had the gift of 1: Cor: 12: 10. discerning of spirits did go beyond them al, and in his pre­faces, arguments, or Censures vpon bookes, doth yeelde the rea­sons of his opinion. It is incredible to thinke how absurde things are fathered on these Doctours, as by name that Adfratres in ere­mo before said to be intituled to Saint Austen, where the absurde fellow sometimes plainly taketh vpō him the name of Austē Bi­shop of Hippon, but to procure admiration saith Serm: 37. that he travei­led into Aethiopia, & saw there men without heades, with their eies set in their brest, and others he beheld which had onely one eye in the middle of their fore-head. I wishe that either Sir Iohn M Hac­ [...]its ving. Maundevile had beene with him, or he with Sir Iohn Maun­devile. This tricke of iugling in such tractes, is a daungerous matter to any who vvill rest himselfe too farre vppon the Fathers vvritinges: and our Popishe people haue in their fraude greate advauntage, vvhen out of such as they are, they vvill con­firme their Paradoxes. But there is another pointe more tickle then this, vvhen their Monkes and Cloister men vvould in­tersert into the true and proper workes of the best writers, whole leafes, or pages or sentences, more or lesse to serve for their pur­pose. Erasmus who laboured exceedingly in repairing and resto­ring antiquity, & to whose paines al learned men do owe much, cōplaineth bitterly of this; as in one of his Lib: de spirit. sāct. prefaces to a booke of S. Basile, he with griefe saith, that the same measure was af­foorded to Basile, which he had otherwise experimented in A­thanasius, Chrysostome, Hierome, and that vvas, that in the middle of treatises, many thinges vvere stuffed and forced in by other, in the name of the Fathers. Hēce the Romish generatiō might build even what pleased thēselves. But besides all this, as in other artes so in Divinity & in the writings of the Doctours, by the ignoraunce of the Novices, in Monasteries sette to write out Copies of bookes, yea of their Vives de canis cor­rupr: art: lib: 1. Nunnes so imployed, di­verse argumentes of bookes vvere put into the bookes them­selves, [Page 429] and Annotations in the Marge [...]t were erepte into the texte. Concerning this depravation of learned mens vvorkes in all kindes. Lodovicus Vives hath written diverse bookes in­tituled, Of the causes hovve or vvhy the artes vvere corrupted, and hath there many observations and complaintes, that some ig­norauntly, some maliciously, all audaciously did such thinges. I thinke it not amisle to cite one sentence of his, vvhich shevv­eth hovve diverse counterfeite bookes had the names of noble Authours put vppon them. Among such as did vvrite out volumes, Libr: 1: there vvere some vvho to procure authoritie to a booke, did in writing put to it the name of some greate authour: other, that when in times past many bookes vvere put out vvithout names, being mooved vvith some very light coniecture, did adiudge it to one or to another: o­ther if they did not knowe the name of the title, did not doubt to chaunge it, and to transferre it to vvhome they thought good: there were such as vvrote out bookes, vvho looke vvhat name came first in their mind, that they did sette before for the title. There bee manie examples of all these thinges, in those authours vvhome even novve I na­med, Aristotle, Plato, Origen, Cyprian, Hierome, Au­gustine, Boetius, Cicero, Seneca, and all these have beene re­ceived vvithout difference, and no lesse authority and credite given to them, then to those which were true and naturall. This is a noble te­stimony of a very learned man, who spent much traveile pur­posely in this argument, and sheweth by what sinister meanes such came to bee reputed Fathers, who were more fit to bee ta­ken for children.

29 Fourthly I name that which is most horrible of all other, e­ven a manifest evidence of a desperate cause, and that vvhich is rotten at the roote. VVherein the impudency and shame­lesse fore-head of the vvhore of Babylon and her Peeres, can never sufficientlye bee exclaimed vppon, albeit heaven and earth, and all the creatures therein bee called to vvitnesse. For hath this Antichristian broode so longe fledde from the Scriptures to the Fathers, and haue they and doe they so crake of these every where, and are they nowe forced to raze them, and pare them, and blurre them, else they cannot hould vp their irreligion? This is the case of vvhich I desire all my weake [Page 430] and abused country-men to take notice. In the Conventicle of Trent there were certaine Index Ex­purgar. Belgic. in Regul. Cō ­cil: Triden­tini. rules made, vvhich openlye did pretend the purging and clensing of bookes from hereticall matters, but secretly intende more, even to raze out what they thinke fitte out of olde or newe, as their practise in this behalfe doth testifie, vvhich is vvarranted by the covert orders there concluded. For this businesse, in diverse places of the Pa­pacy, vvere secretly appointed some of their owne stampe, men conscience-lesse and fitte for any vile acte, to revise as well the Fathers, as later bookes of all sortes, and vvhatso­ever made against Popery and could not handsomely bee glo­sed, should vppon the newe printing of the bookes by Prin­ters in Popishe places, bee cunningly altered or quite lefte out. This must bee done, notwithstanding that all the copies even formerly printed by themselves, and many written ones in their libraries, and as many in ours, did plainely shevve the contrarie. Yea though marveilous store of copyes, vvritten hundreds of yeeres before, vvhen as neither Luther, nor Hus, nor Wic­lefe vvere yet borne, did concurre in that for which we plead. Heere-vppon closely vvas dravvne first An: 1571. one Index Expurga­torius, by the vvarrant of Philippe the second King of Spaine, and of the Duke of Alva Governour of the Lovve Coun­tryes for him. There in the Kinges letters patentes prefix­ed before the booke, charge is given that in every city where booke-sellers dvvell, there shoulde bee some Prelates appoin­ted to supervise all noted bookes, and that Diploma Regis Ca­tholici Bel­gic. they should have vvith them privatelye, and no other men knovving of it, one In­dex Expurgatorius, vvhich they shoulde neither communicate vn­to others, nor graunt a copy of it to any man, but only shall most diligently take care of that, that they inquire vppon, expunge, and restore the places before spoken of. According to this, were al the new printed bookes proceeded withall by them, and our men not knowing the my­stery wondred at those things which were left out and altered, but could not gesse at the true cause, till about fifteene An: 1587: yeeres after, Franciscus Iunius by Gods speciall providence light vpon one of them, and published it to the vvorlde. Sutable to this vvas there by the commaundement of Pope An. 1572. Pius the 5. a [Page 431] Censure vpon the Glosses of the Canon Lawe closely framed by Frier Thomas Manriq. Maister of the holy and Apostolike Pa­lace, and the same by the An: 1580: mandate of Pope Gregory the 13. was afterward reviewed by Sixtus Faber also Maister of the same Palace Apostolike, and according therevnto were the Glosses of the Canon Lavv printed, all thinges being blotted out which made against the Romishe faith. This also vvas concealed, as the Index Expurgatorius had beene before, till that An: 1599: latelye Doctour Iohn Pappus mette vvith it, and published it to the view of all vvho vvill reade it. I finde also F. Gregor. Capuch: in libris Cor­rig: fol: 166: mention of a Cen­sure concerning certaine Authours, vvhich vvas put out in Spaine in the yeere 1562. but the booke it selfe is not yet come (for ought that I knowe) to anye of our handes. But after that, by the meanes of Gaspar Quiroga Cardinall and Arch­bishoppe of Toledo, beeing also cheefe Inquisitour in Spaine, An: 1584: Madriti apud Al­phons. Go­mezium Regiū Ty­pograph. there was printed another Index Librorum Expurgatorum, which was not without the advise of the highe Sonate of the holy Ge­nerall Inquisition. This booke also vvas unknovvne to any Protestant, vntill that her late Maiesties forces taking the tovvne of An. 1596: Calez in Spaine, there vvas one of these Indi­ces founde there, vvhich beeing brought into England, was by a M. Tho. Iames. man carefull to laye open such fraudes, sent to the L. of Plessis into Fraunce, vvho keeping the originall in his ovvne Library, An: 1601: printed it at Saumure, and made it knowne to the bodye of Christendome. In the beginning of this edi­tion it is shevved, that they thrust out diverse thinges of their ovvne vvriters, as out of the vvoorkes of Osorius, Fe­rus, a booke called Edit: Ve­netijs An: 1576. Ordo Baptizandi cum modo visitandi. Yea out of the Glosse on Epiphanius, and from the Tables in the endes of the woorkes of Chrysostome, Hilary, Hie­rome, Cyril of Alexandria, vvhen notvvithstanding the mat­ters to bee put out and razed, are either literally or in sence ap­parantly, and not to bee spoken against, in the Texte of those Fathers. Nay in the Index of the Bibles put out by Robert Stephanus, these propositions must bee blotted out as suspect, Ioh: 11. 26: Hee vvho beleeveth in CHRIST shall not dye everlastingly. Act. 15. 9. By faith the heartes are purified, Gal. 2. 16: UUee are iustified by faith in Christ, [Page 432] Christ is 1. Con 1: 30. our righteousnesse, No Ps: 143. 2: man is righteous before God, 1: Cor: 7 [...] 2. E­very man may have his wife, wheras yet notwithstanding they are the very worde of GOD, as may bee seene in the places quo­ted.

30. Last of all, (for ought that is yet come to our knowledge) there was a treatise Venetijs An: 1597: apud lo: Baptistam, & lo: Ber­nardum Sessam. Concerning bookes to bee corrected, put out by F [...]ter Gregory a Capuchine Neopolitane intituling himselfe Purger of the bookes at Naples. This fellow doth frequently make menti­on of the Censure put out in Spaine Anno 1562. & 1584. & is much more peremptory then it, or any other whom I haue seene. I will breefely lay downe some things that I finde in him. Spea­king then of Litera. F. fol. 153: Frauncis Petrarcha, thus he saith, Let there bee put out the foure expositions with the texte, to wit, Dell' impia Babilonia, [...] Avara Babilonia, Fontana de dolori, fiamma del Cielo, which matters how neere they touch Rome, every one acquainted with Pe­trarkes works do wel know. Mentioning the Bibles of the Fol. 166. Vul­gar edition, thus he speaketh, Bibles which are defective in the Text, according to the Tridentine Councel, Sess. 4. in the Decree de vsu sa­ [...]r. libr. I do ever burne. And I make an experiment in the 3. Chapter of Genesis, where I finde, In the sweate of thy face thou shall eate breade, vntil thou returne vnto the earth, & he doth not say, In the sweate of thy face thou shalt eate thy breade, vntill &c. I without remission as a texte suspect, do not passe to it, censuring it; but setting it on fire. Now if it be a defect to put it bread and not thy bread, it is such a defect as is in the Hebrew, & our bookes reade it commonly in Latin & other languages without thy, & so do most of the Vulgar Popish editi­ons for ought that I can finde. And if it be a fault to put thy to the texte, it should rather be chastised for a superfluity then for a defect. Talking of his Correction of a booke of Iacobus Spie­glius, he hath these words, Fol. 199 & Idem fere. fol. 217: Which correction I do put, not that it is to be accounted for a perfect correction, that it should neede no farther a­mending: but only satisfying my duty, that it may bee knowne that it is to be corrected, & that at least it should be corrected as followeth, till there come a better correction put out with greater consideration: since I finde by experience that too day I see a booke or aleafe, & by various businesses of my mind I do not iudge him to be worthie greater correction, & on the morrow vpon a new cōsideration, I do iudge him to be worthy of correctiō. [Page 433] And therefore I do notifie thus much that as well the booke following as these before are worthy of correctiō: & if they be corrected after the mā ­ner mētioned, easily according to the Trent Index, there may by the most Reverend Bishops leave be given to reade them, till some farther corre­ction do appeere. This is a good plaine fellow, & therfore telleth vs that once amending of a booke will not suffice, but they will to it againe and againe. Fol: 215: Else-where he saith that among them the Revisers, there is a note of three hūdred & fifty Authours which are suspected, & are to be over-vewed. Fol: 218: Finally he deepely find­eth fault with the Index Librorum Expurgandorum (for so hee cal­leth it) printed at Madrill by Alphonsus Gomezius in the yeere 1584. saying that it containeth things erroneous & heretical, as by name, that it doth not sufficiently expunge & purge the workes of Carolus Molineus, whome hee tearmeth an heretike of the first or highest forme. Thus we may iustly feare that there will never be an end of their clipping & curtolling, when themselves cannot agree what is to be pulled out, but when they have fleeced and plumed the workes of any the most learned man, either of our side or of their owne, some other of these purgers may & must, againe and againe fall vpon the same.

31 But if heere it be replyed as some Papists amongst vs do al­ready mutter, & as it is probable that Gretzerus will vrge more at large, if he put forth a defence of the Indices Expurgatorij, as I heare that he intendeth, That this clipping and blotting out, is not in the texts of the Fathers, but onely in Prefaces, Marginall notes, Collections out of them, or observations vpon them, or else if it be very textes, it is but out of the works of later writers, I aunswere that these purgings and razings towards the Fathers themselves indeede do not so directly appeere as the other, for in this they vse a singular cunning, obliquely to doe what they possibly may. But I desire to bee informed to what ende these things do bende. First they confesse in their [...] Belg [...]ke Index Ex­purgatorius thus much concerning the old writers, In other aunci­ent In Beitra­mo. Catholikes meaning the Fathers, we beare many errours, & exte­nuate them, excuse them, excogitating some devise we many times de­ny them, and doe faine vnto them a convenient sence, while they are op­posed in disputations, or inconflictes with the adversaries. Heere is a [Page 434] distorting and turning away of the sence of the Fathers, even a­gainst their owne consciences. Secondly I finde it reported by Praefat. ad Lector. in Belg. In­dic. Ex. purg: Iunius, as a matter which himselfe sawe, that now about forty yeeres since, the workes of S. Ambrose being printed at Lions by Frelonius, there came in two Franciscanes which razed out much of diverse printed sheetes, which enforced Frelonius to new print the same againe, not after the olde Copies, but as the Friers would haue them, to the great charge and trouble of the Printer, as Ludovicus Savarius the correctour of the presse did complaine, professing that he would buy any copy of Ambrose rather then that. It were a good labour for some man who had leisure, to conferre the elder bookes with that edition, & to no­tifie the differences to the worlde. Thirdly I houlde it the same fraude to adde which it is to diminishe, neither is there any sen­tence but by interlacing wordes inough, a cunning worke-man may turne it cleane contrary to the sence of the Authour him­selfe: And this may be as good an Index Correctorius or Additori­us as the other Expurgatorius. Pamelius a Canō of Bruges taketh on him to revise S. Cyprian, & finding that pregnant place, be­fore by me mētioned, De vnita­te Ecclesiae Alias de simplicita­te praelato­rum: The rest of the Apostles were the same which Peter was, endewed with like fellowshippe both of honour and of power, & other things both before and after it to that purpose, he foisteth into the middle of sentences, for super vnum aedificat Ecclesiam, vpō one he buildeth the Church, thus much, super illum vnum aedificat Ec­clesiam suam, & illi Pascendas mandat oves suas: he buildeth his Church vpon that one meaning Peter & committeth his sheepe to him to bee fedde. And againe vnam cathedram constituit, hee erected one chaire, And afterward Qui cathedram Petri super quam fūda est Ecclesia deserit, he who for saketh the chaire of Peter vppon which the Church is founded, doth he hope that he is in the Church? Observat. in Pamelij Annotat. Simon Goular­tius who hath displayed the wicked falshood of this forger, be­sides other evidences against this vilainy, doth cite the wordes of Gratian out of the new editiō of Gregories Decree, which bring­eth in the place of Cyprian as we & all other (before Pamelius) did reade it. But a Th Bilso­nus Epis cop. Win­ton. lib. 1. contra Pōtificios. learned man of our Church handling that last place, he who far saketh the chaire of Peter vpon which the Church is built, doth shew that this addition is contrary to all the printed [Page 435] Copies which were before, as by name of Alopecius at Coleine, Hervagius at Basile, Langelier at Paris, Crinitus at Antwerpe, Griphi­us at Lions, Manutius at Rome. Yea that besides Erasmus diverse Papists as Rembolius, Canchius, Costerius, Gravius, Manutius, Mo­relius, had set foorth Cyprian, searching for written copies of the best both farre and neere, & yet no man of all these, in all their editions thinking of any such matter. Lastly that In indicu­lo c [...]um excusor: & manuscr. in initio Cypr. Pamelius himselfe saying that he had the helpe of eight more manuscript copies besides printed ones, could gather no such thinge in any of all them, but onely out of one Cambron copie, which must checke all the bookes of Christendome. VVhich sheweth that doubtlesse this Cambron broode was forged in former time by some one, who was desirous to magnifie the Primacy of the Pope. Fourthly our makers of the Indices doe goe very neere the Fathers, whē they blotte out of the Tables of their bookes those things which were in the Authours themselves, either word for word or in apparant meaning as before I have manifested. Fifth­ly it is not to be doubted, but that as there be many things more altered in Cyprian by Pamelius, which Goulartius hath refuted, and may be reade by any man that will, And many matters ra­zed in Ambrose, so if any man had leisure to conferre them, hee should finde the like done in Chrysostome and other of the Fa­thers (as Vide Th. Bilson. lib. 4 Basile is notably forged to make for Images) some things being added, some diminished, other changed, the tryall whereof it were good some of our men did vndertake in the Gregory lately put out at Rome, or some other such booke. Sixthly who knoweth whether there bee any such Index gathe­red already, or in gathering, for the writings of all the Fathers, by the which the new editions must be trimmed. VVe see that daily they adde their other Indices, therfore they may adde one of this nature also; And long it was before those could be found, which now are discovered, and so the times of the descrying of this may not be yet come. Or who knoweth whether they who began with the marginal notes, Contents, Arguments, Tables and other Observations vpon the Doctours, & therin did make triall by this gentle sounding at first, how wel they could cary it, or how the world woulde take it, now grow resolute to proceed [Page 436] farther. Since they are over shooes, best plunge higher even over the shoulders: they see their good will is knowne, and therefore best now be impudent, the ice is broken in Ambrose & Cypri­an, & they are no better then their fellowes, who therfore wor­thily shall all be served with the same sawce. Seventhly, which is not least to bee observed, and sitteth best with my former con­iectures, a late country-man of ours from Rome hath givē some prety light to this matter: I meane the Authour of the The warn­woord to S F [...]Ha. stings wast-word. VVarne­woord. Whether I should say this to be Father Parsons, or Father Warford, I know not well: since Warford as I am certainely in­formed, hath perpetually free accesse to the others study, & di­gesteth that matter vvhich Parsons is not at leisure to put into forme, & sometimes putting Epistles & Prefaces to the workes of the elder Foxe, they two play handy-dandy so eche with o­ther, that they thinke by a Iesuitish conveiance, they ioyntly or severally according to the cōveniency of their thē present pur­poses may affirme or deny any booke to be or not be the worke of Father Parsons. But whether soever of the two it be, he being charged by his adversary with the clipping of the Fathers accor­ding to the rules of the Index Expurgatorius, laboureth to a­voide from his side the imputation of those fraudes. And for that purpose Encount. 2: cap 9: citeth diverse rules prefixed by the Councel of Trent, before the Index, all which rules do touch the workes of later writers; but touching those which are ancient, he saith that thus they decree, In libris autem Catholicorum veterum, nihil mutari fa [...] sit nisi vbi aut fraude haereticorum, aut typographi incuria manifestus error irrepserit. Which he Englisheth thus, It may not be lawfull (for them that correct bookes) to chaunge any thing at all in the bookes of the ancient Catholikes, except where any manifest errour shoulde appeere to have crept in, either by the fraude of heretikes, or negligence of the Prin­ter. Heere then are two cases, in which even the works of the old Fathers may bee altered: And according to this hee affirmeth of the Spanishe Index Expurgatorius: that it is most certaine that in all they put out of any authour before our age, they follow one of two reasons before mentioned, to wit, that either they find it thrust in by heretiks, or by errour of the Printer, & that other more ancient & corrected copies had it not. Now vnder this shamelesse coulour, they in their impudē ­cy [Page 437] may do what they list: for since Papistes and Popishe Corre­ctours must be the Iudges, there shal bee nothing which crosseth their Antichristian doctrine, but it by and by shal be saide (even contrary to all antiquity) to be thrust in by heretikes. And what conscience they make in practising their owne rule, and keeping themselves within compasse thereof, may bee seene by that of Cyprian so handled by Pamelius as is before mencioned, where it cannot be denied but that they have altered the wordes from those which formerly were, And shal it now bee saide to bee the Printers faulte, that the words are as we reade them. Why their owne Prints, & all the olde written copies have them so. Or shal it be said to be foisted in by heretikes, when so many & so greate Papists as Costerius, Manutius, Morelius and the other aboue named were, yea Gratian himselfe doth put it as wee doe? The truth then is, they wil put in & put out, adde, diminish, choppe, chaunge & alter what they list, & if any shewe can that way be made it shall be pretended to be the errour of the Printer, or the falshood of an Heretike: but if there be not so much as any cou­lour for that pretence, yet if it bee for their purpose, it shall bee done, with hope that it shall not bee espied, or that some secrete probable reason shal be imagined wherfore iustly they might do so. In which respect I may say, that the rule is wicked & the pra­ctise is worse, the one sl [...]y permitteth falshood, the other more audaciously doth execute it, and so even the workes of the most Auncient are daily depraved by this sinfull and deceitfull Ro­mishe broode. So that if ever there were a fraudulent and false generation of vipers on the earth; if men that have solde them­selves to falshood; if such as to serve the turne of their vn-holy Father, care not what they doe which may cary any pretence, it is this vngracious and vngodly company. The Lorde discover their wickednesse to the simple people, that every one may see and detest their damnable abuses. By these plaine and evident matters, it may appeere whether the Romanists or we doe truely make more reckoning of the Fathers, since wee yeelde them so much authority as belongeth to auncient, godly, and learned men, noble lampes in the Primitive Church, and great illustra­tours of the truth; they in substance overthrow all this; since we [Page 438] conserving them, they corrupt them, and either raze or adde to, or pervert such sentences & sayings of the Doctours, as any way impeach their Romish Hierarchy wherby as vsurpers they raigne and dominere in the consciences of men and women.