AFter my firste ar­raygnement in the chur­che of Saincte Marie Oueris the .29. daye of Ianua­rie, aboute▪ foure of the clocke in the euenynge, there came into the reuestrye whither I was had af­ter my arraigmente, and taried there al daye: a gentleman called Maister Thomas Hussey of Lin­clonshiere, whiche was ones an officer in the Duke of Norfolkes [Page] house to inquire for one Stonīg, and when it was aunswered hym by the vnder Marshalles officers of the kinges benche, which were there with Doctour Taylour and me, that there was none suche: he came forthwith into the house, & toke acquaintaunce of me, sainge further that he woulde come and speake with me in y^e morninge for old acquaintance sake, for I was at muttrel iorney a pay master, in whiche he was and had often re­ceiued money at my hādes. Now in the morninge about vii. of the cloke he came into the chamber, wher in I laye, and beinge alone with me, and set downe, he began a longe talke, howe that of loue & olde acquayntance he came vnto me to speake vnto me, that which he would further vtter, the effecte [Page] wherof was that I did so wonder­fully (quod he) behaue my selfe be­fore the lorde Chauncelour & the other Bishoppes the other daye, that euen the verieste enemies I had did see, howe that they had no matter againste me: therefore aduised me, as thoughe it came of his own good wil without ma­king anye other man priuie or a­anye other procuringe hym, as he said, that I would this daye (for quoth he anone you shall be cal­led before them again) desire ther­fore tyme & men to conferre with al. By reason wherof he thought that al men would thinke a won­derfull wysedome, grauitie and goodnes in me: & by this meane I shuld escape the daūger whiche is nearer thē you be ware of ꝙ he. But I aunswered breiflie & said, [Page] that I coulde not, nor woulde not make any such requeste, for then (quod I) occasiō should I giue to the people and to all other that I stode in doubting of the doctrine, the which thing I told hym I did not, but thereof was moste assu­red, and therefore I would giue no such offence. As we were thus talkinge, the Chamber dore was vnloked, and who should come in at the dore, but one doctour Sey­ton, when he saw maister Hussey: what syr quoth he, are you come before me? yea thought I, goeth the matter thus? and he tolde me no man knew of hys cōming. Wel Lord quoth I to my selfe, giue me grace to remember thy lesson, Ca­uere ab hominibus istis, beware of those mē,Mat. 10 Mat. 7. &c. cast not your pearles before doges, for I see these men [Page] become to hunte the matter y^t the one maye beare witnesse with the other. This doctor Seyton, after some bye talke of my age, of my Countrie, and such like, he began a long sermō of my lord of Cāter­burye, maister Latymer, & mai­ster Redley, and howe at Oxford they where not able to aunswere any thinge at al, and therfore: my lord of Caunterburye desired to conferre wyth the Byshoppe of Duresme and others. All whiche talke tended to this ende, that I should make y^e like sute beinge in nothinge to be compared in lear­ninge to my Lorde of Caūterbu­rye, whiche thinge is moste true. But I breiflye aunsuered as be­fore I did to maister Hussey, wherwith they were neither of thē both cōtented: and therefore they vsed [Page] many persuasions, and Maister doctor said, how that he had herd muche good talke of me, tellinge how that yesternight maister Rū ­corne had made reporte of me, at my lorde Chauncelours table at supper, howe that I was able to persuade as much as any that he knewe. And I my selfe quoth he, though I neuer herd you preache nor to my knowledge neuer sawe you before yesterdaie: yet my thought your modestie was such, your behauour and talke so with­out malice and impacientye, that I wolde be sorye you should doo woursse then my selfe, and I tell you quoth he further, I doo per­ceaue that my Lorde Chauncelor hath a fauour toward you: wher­fore be not obstinate but desire re­spite and sew to some lerned men, [Page] to confer with all, but still I kepe me to my Cokoo I coulde not, nor wold not so offend gods people: I stode in no wauering, but was moste certeyne of the doctrine I had taught. Here master Doctor waxed hote and called me arro­gaunte, prowde, vayne glorious, and spake like a Prelate, hauing no other aunswere of me but that he should beware of iudging,Mat. [...] Mat [...] lest he cōdempned him selfe. Howbeit this would not serue but still he vrged me showing howe merciful my Lorde Chauncellor was, and how charitablye they intertained me: Vnto which wordes I briefly showed him, that I neuer foūd a­nye iustice, muche lesse charitie. I speake it for my parte (quoth he) in my Lord Chauncellor. And so showed howe I hade ben in Pri­son [Page] howe I had ben handled and howe they had no matter now a­ageinst me but such as they shold haue by myn own confession. But nothing of this talke moued mai­ster doctor: who went from mat­ter to matter, from this poynt to that poynte: and I gaue hym stil the hearnige and aunswered not bycause he came to haue had somthing whereby my Lord Chaun­cellor mighte haue had semed to haue kepte me in prison not cau­seles. When al their talke toke no such effecte as they wold & loked for, maister Hussey began to aske me whether I would not admyte conference, if my lord Chauncelor shoulde offre it me publicklye: to whom I aunswered this in effect, that conferēce, if it had ben offred before the lawe had bene made, or [Page] cōference if it were offred, so that I might be at libertie to conferre, and as free as he with whome I should conferre: then quoth I, it were some thing, but els I see not to what purpose cōference should be offered, but to deferre y^t whiche will come at the length, and the lyngering may giue more offence then do good. Hhowbeit quoth I, if my Lord should make suche an offre of his owne▪ voluntarines: I will not refuse to conferre withe whome so euer shall come. Mai­ster doctor hearing this, called me arrogant still, proud, and what so euer pleased hym, so that I be­sought them both (because I per­ceaued by them I should shortely be called for) to gyue me leaue to talke with God, & to begge wise­dome and grace of hym, for quoth [Page] I otherwise I am helpelesse. And so they with muche a doo depar­ted. And I went to god and made my pore praier acordingly, which of his goodnes he did graciouslie accepte and did helpe me in my neade, praysed therfore be his ho­lyename.

Shortely after they were gone, I was had to saint Marie oueris and there taried vncalled for, till xi. of the clocke that is: till Mai­ster Saunders was excommuni­cated.

Vpon the .3. of Februarie, the Byshoppe of London came to the Counter in the pultrie to disgrad Maister Doctor Taylor, about one of the clocke at after noone, but before he spake to Maister, Tailour: I was called forth vn­to him: when he sawe me, of went [Page] hys cappe, & out stretched he his hāde, and on this sort he spake to me, that bycause he perceaued I was desyrous to conferre withe some lerned man, therfore he had broughte maister Archedeacone Harpsfeld to me, and quoth he, I tell you, you doo like a wise man, but I praye you goe roundlye to worke, for the tyme is but short: my Lorde, quoth I, as rounde­lyl as I can I wyll go to woorke with you, I neuer desired to con­ferre with anye man nor yet doo, howbeit if you will haue anye to talke with me I am redy to heare and aunswere hym. What quoth my Lord of London in a fume to the keper: did not you tell me that this man desired conference? No my Lorde quoth he. I tolde you that he wold not refuse to cōferre [Page] with any, but I did not shewe to anye that it was his desire. well quoth my Lord of London, mai­ster Bradforde you are welbelo­ued, I pray you consider your self and refuse not charitie when it is offered. In dede my Lord quoth I, this is finale charitte, to con­demne a man, as you haue con­dempned me, whiche neuer brake the lawes, In Turckie a man may haue tought free, but in En­gland I cold not fynd it, for I am condempned for my faith so sone as I vttered it at your requeste, before I had cōmitted any thing againste the lawes. As for con­ference, I am not afrayed (quoth I) to talke with whome you will, but to saye that I desire to con­ferre: that do I not. Well well quoth my Lorde of London, and [Page] so called for maister Taylor, and I went my waye.

Vpon the 4. of Februarie came one of my lord Chaūcellors gent­lemen, sent as he said frō my lord as then being come frō the court. Thys was about .8. of the clocke the eueninge. The effecte & ende of his talke & message was, that my Lorde his maister did loue me well, and therefore he offered me tyme to conferre if I woulde de­sire it, but as I had aunswered o­thers in this matter, so I aunswe­red him, that I wold neuer make that sute, but quoth I, to cōferre with any, I will neuer refuse: by­cause I am certaine and able I thancke god, to defend by godlye learning, my faith. Thus with much a doo we shoke hands, and departed, he to his maister, and I [Page] to my pryson.

Vpon the 7. of Februarie came one maister Wollerton a Chap­plaine to the Bishoppe of Lōdon to conferre with me: Who, when he perceaued that I desired not his comming, beinge as one most certain of my doctrine. And ther­fore wished rather his departing thē abiding: well maister Brad­ford quoth he, yet I pray you let vs conferre a litle, perchance you may do me good, if I can dooe you none. Vpon whiche wordes I was content to talke. He spake muche of the doctors and fathers, of the bread in the .6. chapiter of Iohn. And so wolde proue tran­substātiation: & howe that wicked mē do receiue Christs bodie. And I on the contrarie parte impro­ued his aucthours, with much by [Page] talke betwixte vs bothe, and the keper, who toke his parte litle to y^e purpose. Sūma to this issue we came, that he should draw out of the scriptures and doctours, his reasōs. And I wold peruse them, and if I could not aunswere thē, I would giue place. And so I de­sired him to do my reasons, which I woulde make, and so departed for that daye.

The next day following in the morning, he sent me halfe a shete of paper written on bothe sides, with no resons how he gathered his doctrine, but onlye the bare sentence: Panis quem ego dabo: The bread whiche I wil giue is my fleshe. And the places in the 26. of Matth. 14. of Marke .22. of Luke, & the .10. and .11. to the Co­rinth. with some sentences of the [Page] doctors, all which made as much against him, as with hym al only one of Theophilactꝰ except in the after nowne he came himself, and then we had a longe bablynge to none effecte, and at the lenght he came to the church, and how that I shwarued frō the churche. Na▪ quoth I, that doo I not, but you do, for y^e church is Christs spouse and Christes obedient spouse, as▪ your church is not, which robbeth the people of the Lordes Cuppe, & of seruice in the English tonge. Why quoth he, it is not profitable to haue the seruice in Englishe, and so he brought forth this sen­tence to proue it. Labia Sacerdotis custodiant, legem. The lipes of the priestes should kepe the law, and out of his mouth mē must loke for knowledge. Why quoth I should [Page] not the people thē haue the scrip­tures: wherfore serueth this of Christe, searche the scriptures.Ioh. 5. This quoth he was not spoken to the people, but to the Scribes, & learned men: wel quoth I, then the people must not haue the scri­ptures, whiche he affirmed brin­ginge fourth this. E [...] erunt docti a deo, They shalbe all taught of God. But must we, quoth I, lerne all at the priestes? yea quoth he, well then said I, I see you would bringe the people to hange vppe Christ and let Barrabas goo,Luk. 23 as the priestes thē did perswade the people. A which wordes he was so offēded: that he had no luste to talke any more. Summa I gaue hym the reasons. I had gathered against transubstantiacion, and prayed hym to frame his in the [Page] frame of reasons, and I woulde aunswere them, well quoth he, I wil do so, but first I wil answere yours. The whiche thing he hath not done hitherto, nor wil not: for I heare that he is ridden into the Country.

Vpon the .12. of Februarye there came one of the Erle of Darby his men called Stephen Beiche, one of olde acquentaunce to me: who showed me, that my lord sent him to me, and willed me to ten­der my selfe, & he would be good lord vnto me. Whē I aunswered, that I thancked his lordshipppe for his good will towardes me, but quoth I, in this case I cane not tēder my selfe more then gods honour: then he set before me, my mother, my sisters, frends, kynds­folkes, & Country, what a greate discomforte it wolde be vnto thē, [Page] to dye as an Heretike, well syr, quoth I, I haue learned to for­sake father, mother, brother, si­sters, frends, and all that euer I haue, & mine owne selfe: or els I can not be Christes disciple. And so he tellinge me, that my death would doo much hurte, and such lyke talke: we shoke handes. Howbeit, nowe I remember that in oure talke he asked me, if my lord should obtaine for me, that I might departe the Realme: whe­ther I would not be content to be at the Quenes appointmēt, wher she woulde appointe me beyond the sea? No quoth I. I had rather be burned in Englande, then be burned beyōd y^e sea. For I know quoth I, that if she should sende me to Paris, to louen &c. fourthe with they would burne me.

[Page]Vpon the .14. of Februarie their came to me Perciuall Cressewell one of my olde acquentaunce, and one that loueth my bo­die well and my soule also, after his religion, bringing with hym, & as I learne a kynsman of mai­ster Feckenham: who after much ado praied me, y^t he might make labour for me, a gods name, quod I, doo, you may do what you wil, yea, but, quoth he. Tell me what suet I should make. Forsoth said I, that y^t you wil doo, do it not at my requeste, for I desire nothyng at your hādes: if the Queene wil giue me life, I will thanke her, i [...] she will banishe me. I will thācke her, yf she will condempne me t [...] perpetuall prisonmente: I wy [...] thancke her, if she wil burne me I will thancke her. Here vpo [...] [Page] he wente awaye. And about a .xi. of the clocke. He and the other man came agayne, and brought a boke of Maister Mores ma­kynge to rede ouer, the whiche boke I toke. But, quoth I, good Perceiuall. I am to sure setteled, for beinge moued in thes mat­ters. Oh, quoth he, if euer you loued me, do one thinge for me▪ what is that, quoth I, at the lenght, for I woulde not pro­mes, sayth he to desire and name what lerned men or man you will haue to come vnto you, my Lord of yorke, my Lorde of Lyncolne, my Lorde of Bathe, my Lorde of of Chichester. &c. wil gladly come to you: No, quoth I, neuer wil I desire thē, or any others, to come to conferre with me, for I am [Page] as certein of my doctrine, as I am of anye thing: But for your plea­sure (quoth I) and that all men maye knowe I am not ashamed to haue my faith sifted and tried, bringe whome you will, & I will talke with them. So they went theyr waye. And about .3. of the clocke in the after nowne, cōmeth maister doctor Hardinge the By­shoppe of Lincolnes Chaplaine, and after a greate and solempne protestation, (when he knew I de­sired not his comming), how that he had prayed to God, before he came forth to turne his talke to to my good: he began to tell of the good opinion he had of me, and many God giue you good euen, so that our talke was to none ef­fecte or purpose: saue y^t I prayed hym, to consider from whence he [Page] was fallen, and not to followe the world or loue it, bycause the loue of God is not where it is,1. Io. Sūma he counted me in a dampnable state: as one being out of the churche. And therfore wylled me to take hede to myselfe, & not to dye in suche an opinion. what mai­ster Hardinge (quoth I) I haue heard you with these eares, maintayne this that I stode in. I haue (quoth he) preached that the doc­trine of transubstantiation was a subtill doctrine, but otherwise I neuer taught it. And so enuyinge against marieges of priestes, and muche againste Peter Marter, Martyn Bucer, & Luther, which for breakinge their vowes, were iustly giuē vp into heresies quod he. I seing hym all togyther giuē vp into poperie, after admonishe­ment [Page] hereof, bad hym farewell.

Vppon the .15. of Februarie a­bout .4. of the clocke in the after nowne, cometh Percyuall Cresse­well, and the other man waytyng vpon maister Harpsfeld▪ Arche­deacon of Londō, who after gētle salutation, and many formalities beganne a longe oracion. Howe that all men, euen the Infideles, Turckes, Iewes, Anabaptistes, and Libertines, desire felicitie, as well as the christians. And howe that euerye man thyncketh they shal attaine to it, by their religiō. To the whiche longe oracion I aunswerred briefly: that he spake not farre a mise. Then goeth he on, yea, but the waye, quoth he, thither is not all a like. And so he set furth, how infideles by Iupi­ter, Iuno, The Mahumet by [Page] his Alcoran, the Iewe by his Thalmud: beleued to come to Heauen. For so manye I spake sayth he: as beleue the immortali­tie of the soule. And this long or­acion, I as brieflie aunswered: and saide he had spoken truelye. Well then, quoth he, here is the matter▪ the waye to this hea­uen. we maye not inuente anye newe waye. Their is but one waye, quoth I, and that is Ie­sus Christe, as he hymselfe doth witnesse: I am the waye, here Maister Harpsfeld affirmed and denyed, and further sayde, that I ment by Christe, beleuing in Christe, I haue lerned, quoth I, to discerne betwixte Faythe and Chryste. Albeit I confesse that who so euer beleuethe in Christe the same shalbe saued. [Page] No, quoth he, not all that beleue in Christ, for some wyll saye, lord Lorde, haue not we caste oute de­uilles &c? But Christe will say in the daye of iudgement to those departe frō me, I knowe you not. yea syr, quoth I, you muste make a difference, betwixte beleuing & saying. I beleue, as for example, if one should say and swere he loued you: for all his saying you wil not beleue him, when you see he goeth aboute to vtter, and doo all euyll thinges againste you. wel quoth he, this is not muche materiall. Theire is but one waye Christe. How come we to know him, where shal we seke to finde him? Forsoth quoth I, we must seke hym by his word, and in his word, & after his word. Verye good quoth maister Harpsfeld. But tell me now, howe [Page] first we come into the companie of them that could tell vs this, but by Baptisme. True, quoth I, ba­ptisme is the sacrament, by the whiche exteriorlye we are insert and engraf [...]e into Christe, for I dare not, quoth I, exclude oute of Christe, al that dye without bap­tisme, I wil not tye God where he is not bound. Some infants dye: whose parents desire baptisme for them, and maye not haue it. To those, quoth he, we maye thincke perchaunce some mercie God will shew. yea, quoth I. those infants whose parentes doo contēpne baptisme, wil not I contempne vtter­lye, because the childe shall not beare the fathers offence. Well quoth he, we agree that by baptis­me then we are broughte, and (as one would say) begotten of christ, [Page] for christe is oure father, and the churche his spouse is our mother, as al men naturallie haue Adam for their father, and eue for theyr mother, so all spirituall men haue Christ for their father, & the chur­che for their mother, whiche chur­che. As Eue was taken out of A­dams side: so was she of Christes side, where out flowed bloud, for satisfaction & purging of our sin­nes. Al this is true, quoth I, and godlye spoken. Nowe then, quoth he, tel me whether this churche of Christe hathe not ben alwayies: yes, quoth I, sithen the creacion of man, and shalbe for euer. Ve­rie good, quoth he. But yet tel me, wether this churche is not a vi­sible Chusche, or no: yes (quoth I) that it is, howbeit none other­wyse visible, then Christe was [Page] here on earthe. That is no exte­rior pompe or shewe, setteth her forth commonlye. And therfore to see her we muste put on such eyes: as good men put one, to see and knowe Christe: when he walked here one earthe. For as Eue was of the same substaunce, Adam was of: so is the churche of the same substaunce, Christe is of. I meane fleshe of fleshe, and bone of hys bones, as Paule sayeth, Ephe. 5. Looke therefore howe Christe was visible knowen to be Christe, when he was on earthe: (that is by considering him after the word of God) so is the church knowen. I do not come to reason, saith he, at this present, & therfore I wil go on forward. Is not this a multitude? yes (ꝙ I) that it is.Virgi [...] Howbeit, quod la [...]et anguis in herba [Page] You meane a sutteltie in y^e worde, what visible multitude was ther in Helias tyme, or when Moyses was on the mounte Aaron, and al Israel worshipping the calfe. you goo from the matterr, quoth he, No nothinge at all said I. For I doo but preuent you, knowynge wel where aboute you go, & ther­fore fewer wordes might serue: if that you so would. Well, quoth he, I perceaue you haue know­ledge, and by a litle perceaue the more. Tell me yet more. whether this multitude haue not the mini­sterie or preaching of gods word? Here syr, quoth I, you go aboute the bushe. If you vnderstande preaching, for confessing the gos­pel: I wil go with you, or els yf you wil, you may know that per­secution often letteth preachinge▪ [Page] Wel, I meane it so, quoth he. Tel me yet more, hath it not the sacra­mentes, quoth I, howbeit the my­nisterie therof is often letted? But I wil put you of your purpose, be­cause I see where about you goo. If heretickes haue baptized and doo baptize, as they did in sainct Cyprians time: you knowe thys baptisme is baptisme, and not to be reiterated. This I speake, that the staunders by might see, that thoughe the poptshe church haue baptisme, whiche we receaue of them: yet therefore is it not the true churche: nor neuer neade we to be baptized again. which thing he sawe well ynoughe: and ther­fore he said, I went frō the mat­ter, addynge, that I had more er­rors, then one, or two. So ye say, quoth I: but that is not ynough, [Page] till you proue them. Well, quoth he, this churche is a multitude, hath the preaching of the gospell and the ministracion of the sacra­mentes, and yet more, hath it not the power of iurisdiction? Oh sir, quoth I, whether goo you, you walke not wililey, ynough you cā not deceaue me (I thancke god): what iurisdictiō is exercised in ti­me of ꝑsecutiō, ī afflictiō. I meane quoth he, by iurisdiction, admoni­shing one an other, and so forthe. well, go to said I, what then? It hathe also, quoth he, succession of Byshoppes. And here he made muche adoo, to proue that this, was an essenciall point. you saye true, quoth I. For if this poīt fale you: all the church you go about to set forthe, will fall downe. you shal not fynd in all the scripture, [Page] this is essentiall pointe of succes­sion of Byshoppes, quoth I. In Christes churche Antechrist will sitt. And Peter telleth vs, as it wente in the olde churche afore Christes comming: so will it be in the newe churche, sithen Christes comming. That is, as their were false Prophetes & suche as bare rule were aduersaries to the true Prophetes: so shal there be sithen Christes comming false teachers, euen as of such as be byshoppes, and beare rule amonges the peo­ple. you alwayes goo out of the matter, quoth he. But I wil ꝓue (saeth he) the succession of Bys­hoppes. Doo so, quoth I. Tel me quoth he, were not the Apostles byshoppes? No, quoth I, excepte you will make a newe definition of Bishoppes, that is, giue no cer­tein [Page] place. In dede sayth he, the Apostles office was more thē by­shopes, for it was vniuersal. But yet Christe instituted Byshoppes in his Churche, as Paule saith, he hathe gyuen Pastours, Pro­phetes, so that, I troue it be pro­ued by the scriptures, the succes­sion of byshoppe: to be an essenti­all pointe. To this I aunswered, that the ministerie of godes word and ministers: is an essenciall pointe, but to translate this to by­shoppes and their successiō, quoth I: is a plaine subtiltie. And therfore, quoth I, that it may be playne: I wyll aske you a que­stion. Tell me whether the scrip­ture knowe anye difference be­twene byshoppes, and ministers, whiche you call pristes. No saithe he, well, then goo on forwardes [Page] quoth I: and lette vs see what you shall get nowe by the succes­ [...]ion of Byshoppes, that is of mi­nistres, whiche can not be vnder­stande of such Byshoppes as mi­nister not, but Lorde it. I per­ceaue, quoth he, that you are fare oute of the waye. For your doc­trine, you can neuer showe this a multitude, whiche ministrethe goddes woorde and his Sacra­mentes, whiche hath iurisdiction and succession of Byshoppes, to haue from tyme to time beleued as you beleue, beginning nowe, & so go vpwards, as I wil do, quod he, of our doctrine. And therefore you are out of the Church, and so maye not be saued. Perchaunce you wil bring me downewardes, a shew to bleare the peoples eyes, but to goo vpwardes: that can [Page] you neuer doo. And this is the true triall. To this I aunswered, that he ought to giue me leaue to followe the scripture and exam­ples of good men. Then said, yea. Wel then, quoth I, Stephē was accused and cōdempned as I am, that he taught newe and false do­ctrine before the fathers of the churche, then as they were taken. Now what doth Stephen for his purgacion, but improued theire accusacions. But how doth he it, by goinge vpwardes. No, but by goinge downewardes. Begin­ning at Abraham, and cōtinuing stil till Esaias time, and the peo­ples captiuitie. From whence he maketh a great leape, vntill that tyme he was in) whiche was I thincke vpon a foure yeres) and called them by there right name [Page] hell houndes, rather then, heauen houndes. On this sorte syr, quoth I. will I proue my faith, & that you can neuer doo yours, yea, syr, quoth he. If we dyd knowe you had the holy goste: then could we beleue you. Here might haue ben aunswered, that Stephens ene­mies would not beleue he had the holy gost, and therefore they dyd as they did. But in speakinge he rose vp, and the keper called, and others that stode bye to take his parte all againste me. Howe be it gentlie, without anye tawntynge or rayling, onelye prayinge me to take hede to that maister Harps­feld speake, who still said I, was oute of the churche, and did con­tempne it, spitt against it, and I cannot tel what. But I still affir­med that I was moste certeine, I [Page] was in Christes churche, & could shewe a demonstracion of my re­ligion, from tyme to tyme conti­nually. And so we made an ende, sainge that in the mornynge he would come again vnto me. God our father,A prayer [...]f M. [...]rad­ [...]ords. for the name and blod of his Christ: be merciful vnto vs, and vnto all his people, and kepe them frō al false teachers, & blind guides, whereby (alas) I feare me muche hurte wil come to this realme of England. God our fa­ther blesse vs, and kepe vs in his truth & pore church foreuer. Amē.

Vppon the .16. of Februarye in the morning about .9. of y^e clocke: there came again the said maister Harpsfeld, and the other two with him. Nowe after a fewe wordes spoken: we sate downe, & maister Harpsfeld, beginning a very long [Page] oraciō, almost ther quarters of an houre lōg. First repeting what, & how far we haue gone astraye, & beginnynge to proue vpwardes succession of Byshoppes here in Englād for .8. c. yeres, in Fraūce, at Liōs: for .xii.c. yeres, in spaine at Hispalen, for .viii.c. yeres in I­talie at Millen, for .xii. c. yeres, goinge by that to proue his chur­che, whereto he vsed also successiō of byshopes, in the Est church for the more confirmacion of hys wordes, and so concluded with an exhortation, & an interrogation. The exhortacion, that I woulde obey this church, the interrogaci­on, whether I could shewe anye such succession for the demonstra­on of my church, (for so he called it whiche I followed). Vnto this his long oracion, I made a sherte [Page] aunswered, howe that my memo­rie was euill for to aunswere par­ticularlye his long oracion, ther­fore I woulde generallye doo it, thinckinge that bycause his ora­cion was rather to perswade, then to proue: that a general aunswere would serue. So I told him, that if Christe, or his Apostles beinge here on yearth, hath him demaū ­ded of the Prelats of the churche then, then, to haue made a demonstracion of the churche, by succes­sion of highe priestes, whiche had approued the doctrine he taught: I thincke, quoth I, that Christe hert would haue done as I doo. That is, haue brought furth that which vpholdeth the church: euē the veritie of the worde of God, taught & beleued, not of the high priestes (which of longe time had [Page] persecuted it) but by y^e Prophetes & other good simple men, whiche perchaunce were counted for he­retickes with the churche: that is with them, that were ordeyned highe priestes in the churche, to whome the true churche was not then tyed by any successiō, but the word of god. And thus to thincke quoth I?2. Pet. [...] Saint Peter gyueth an occasion, when he saith: That as it went in y^e church before christes comminge: so shall it goo in the Churche, after his commynge, but then, the pillars of the Chur­che, were persecutours of it. Therefore the like we muste loke for nowe. Why, quoth be, I can gether, and proue you succession in Ierusalem of the high priestes. From Aarons time, I graunte, quoth he, but not suche succession as allowed y^e trueth. Why, quoth [Page] he, did they not all allow Moyses lawe: yes, quoth I. And kept it, for the bokes therof, as you do the Bible and holy scripture: but the interpretacion and meaning of it▪ they did corrupte, as I take it you haue done. And therfore the per­secutions they stirred vp against the Prophetes & Christe, was not for the lawe, but for the interpre­tacion of it, as you saie nowe: that we must haue the interpretaciō of the scriptures, at your hādes. but to make an ende, quoth I, death I do loke daily for, yea, hourely, & I thīke my time be but very short. Therfore I had neade to spend in praier, as much tyme with god as I can, (whileste I haue it) for his helpe and comforte. And ther­fore I praye you beare with me, that I do not more plainlye, and [Page] in more woordes, aunswere you longe talke. If I sawe death not so nere me as it is, I woulde then weye euery peice of your oracion: (if you would giue me the some of them,) & I would aunswere them, accordinglie I hope. But bicause I dare not, nor I wil not leaue of, lokinge and prouidinge for that whiche is at hande: I shall de­sire you to holde me excused, be­cause I doo as I do. And I har­telye thancke you, for youre gentle good will. I shall harte­lye praye GOD oure father, to giue you the same lyght and lyfe, as I wishe to my selfe. And so I beganne as to rise vppe. But then maister Harpsfeld beganne to tell me, that I was in a ve­rye perillous case, and he was sorie to see me so setteled. Telling [Page] further, that in dede he could tell me nothinge, whether death were fare of or nere. But that forceth not, quoth he: so that you did dye well. Well quoth I? yes. For I doubte not in this case, but to dye wel. For as I hope and am cer­certain, my deathe shall please the Lord: so I trust, I shall dye cher­fullye, to the comforte of his chyl­dren. yea, but what if you be de­ceaued, quoth he: what quoth I, if you dyd saye the Sone did not shyne nowe. Then it did shine thoroughe the wyndowe where wee satt, wel, quoth he, I am sorrie to see you so secure and carelesse. In dede quoth I, I am more carelese & secure, carnallie, then I shoulde be, God make me more vigilant. But in this case, quoth I, I can not be to secure, for I am most as­sured, [Page] I am in the truth. That are ye not, quoth he, for you are not of the Catholike church. No, quoth I? thoughe you haue excommu­nicate me: yet am I in the Catho­like church of Christe, and wil be a child of it, and an obediedt child for euer. I hope Christe will haue no lesse care for me, then he had for the blynd man excommunicate of the Sinagoge. And, quoth I, further, I am certain that the neces­sarie articles of y^e faith (I meane the .xii. articles of the Crede). I confesse & beleue with that, which you call the holy church. So that euē your church, hath taken some thing to muche vpon her, to excō ­municate me for that, whiche (by the testimonie of my Lord of Du­risme in his boke of the sacramēt, latelye put furth) was free of ma­nye [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] an. yeres after Christe, to be­leue or not beleue: what is that quoth he? Transubstantiation said I. Why, you are not cōdem­pned therefore only, quod he. Yes quoth I, that am I, and bycause I denye, that wicked men do re­ceaue Christes bodie. No, quoth he, you agree not with vs in the presence, nor in nothing els. How you beleue, quoth I, you knowe: for my parte I confesse a presence of hole Christe, God, and man, to the the fayth of the receauour. No, quoth he, you muste beleue a Reall presence in the sacrament. In the sacramente, quoth I? No I will not shute hym vppe, nor tye hym to it, otherwise then faithe see the and permitteth. If I woulde include Christes reall presence in the sacrament, or tye [Page] hym to it otherwise, then to the Fayth of the receauer: then the wycked man shoalde receiue him, whiche I do not, nor will not be­leue by goddes grace. More pi­tie, quoth he: but a man maye ea­selye see you make no presence at all, and therefore you agree not therein with vs. I make a pre­sence, quoth I, and a true presēce: but to the fayth of the receauer. What, quoth one, that stode by, of Christes verie bodie whiche died for vs, yea, quoth I, euē of whole Christe: God, and man, to the faythe of hym that receaueth it. why, quoth maister Harpsfeld, this is nothing els, but to exclude the omnipotencie of God, and all kynde of myracle in the Sacra­ment. No, ꝙ I, I do not exclude his omnipotencie, but you rather [Page] doo it. For I beleue that Christe can accomplishe his promise, the substaunce of bread and wine be­inge their still: as well as the ac­cidents. And, quoth I, I counte it a greate miracle: that common bread shoulde be made a spiritu­al bread, that is, a bread ordeined of God, not for the foode of the bodye, but rather for the foode of the soule. For when we come to the sacrament, we come not feade our bodies, and therfore we haue but a litle peice of bred: but we come to feade our soules by faith, whi­che the wicked waunte: and ther­fore they receaue nothynge but Panem Domini as Iudas did, and Panem Dominum, as the other the Apostles did. The wicked, saithe maister Harpsfeld, do receiue the verie bodie of Christe, but not the [Page] grace of his bodie. No, quoth I, they receaue not the body, for it is no dead carkase. He y^t receaueth it: receiueth the spirite, whiche is not with out grace I wyne. Wel, quoth he, you haue very many er­rors. you counte y^e Masse for ab­hominacion, and yet saint Abrosse saide masse. And so red oute of a boke written, a sentence of sainct Ambrose to ꝓue it. Why, sir, quod I, the masse, as it is now, was no­thinge so in saint Ambrose tyme. was not the most perte of the Ca­non, made sithen by Gregorius, & Scolasticus, and others. In ded, quoth he, a greate peice, of it was made as ye saye, by Gregorius, but Scholasticꝰ was before S. Ambrose tyme. I wene not, quoth I, howbeit I wyll not contend. Saint Gregorie saith, that the A­postles [Page] said masse, with out Can­nons, onely with the lords praier. you saye true, quoth he, for the Canon is not the greateste parte of the masse▪ The greatest part, is the sacrifice, eleuacion, transub­stantiacion and adoracion. I can awaye with none of those, quoth I, No I thincke the same, quoth he. But yet Hoc facite telleth plain lye the sacrifice of the churce▪ you consider not well, quoth I, this worde sacrifice, not discernynge betwixte the sacrifice of the chur­che, and the sacrifice for the chur­che. The sacrifice of the Churche, is no propitiatorie sacrifice: but a gratulatorie sacrifice. The sa­crifice Christe hym self offered: is the propitiatorie sacrifice. And as for your Hoc facite is not re­ferred to anye sacrifyinge: but [Page] to the whole action, takynge, eatynge. you speake nowe, quoth he, not learnedlye, for Chryste made his supper, onelye to the .12. not admittinge his mother, or a­ny of the seuentie disciples to it. Nowe the Apostles doo signifie the priestes. I thincke, quoth I, that you speake▪ as you would mē shoude vnderstand it, for els you woulde not kepe the Cup awaye from the Laitie. We haue greate cause to thācke you, that you wil giue vs the bread, for I perceaue you make it, as thoughe Christe had not cōman̄ded it to his whole church. Frō this talke he went to. show me Eleuacion bringing out a place of Saint Basilius de spiritu ▪ And I told him that I had red y^t place which semeth not to make of eleuatiō. But, ꝙ I, be it as it is, I [Page] haue ben in Prison long, without bokes and all necessaries for stu­die, and therfore I muste omitte these thinges death draweth nye, & I by your leaue, must not leaue of to prepare for it. If I could do you good, quoth he, I woulde be right glad, either in soule or body for you are in a perellous case both waies. Sir, quoth I, I thāck you for your good wil. My cause is as it is: I thancke God it was neuer so wel with me: for death to me shall be life I truste and hope in god. It were beste for you to desire maister Harpsfeld, quoth maister Cressewell, y^t he mighte make sute for you, for a time, to cōferre. Vnto whiche woordes Maister Harpsfeld said: that he would doe the beste he could, for he pitied my case verie sore, Sir, quoth I, to [Page] desire any bodie to sewe for tyme for me, I neuer wil do it by godes helpe. For I am not wauerynge, nor I would not that anye bodye should thincke, I were so. But if you haue the charitie and loue to­wardes me, you pretend, and ther to doo thincke that I am in an er­rour: I thincke the same shoulde moue you to doo, as you woulde be done by: as you thincke of me: so do I of you, that you are farre out of the way, & not only thincke it, but also am therof assured. In this and suche lyke gentle talke we departed: he saing y^t he would pray for me, others willinge me, to desire him, to sue for me, whiche I did not. But I wished hym as muche good as he did me. And as he was goinge and bad me fare­well, he turneth againe & geueth [Page] me Ireneus, prayinge me to read ouer a certeine place in it, whiche thīg I told him I wold, although I had red it before. At the dore the wife of the house mete hym, & asked hym how he had done. For­sothe Maisters, quoth he, I fynd alwaies one maner of mā of him, as I found him, so I leaue him. I pray you sir, quoth she, do hym no hurte. No quoth he, but if I can I wil do hym good. At after di­ner the same daye, maister Clay­den my keper, commeth vnto me from the Erle of Darbye, with whome he had dyned beinge sent for purposly, about me. Nowe af­ter his cōming home, this was the some of hys talke. That the Erle would gladly haue me not to die. And therfore he would make sute on my behalfe to y^e Queenes gighnes. [Page] Wherfore, quoth my keꝑ, you must tel me, what you wold haue him to do, y^t to morow I may brīg hym worde, as he hath required me. Marie, ꝙ I, M. Clayden I hope I shal nead litle to make many wordes in telling you my sute, as I hartely thāke his lordship of his good wil, and zeale, y^t he bea­reth vnto me: so you know I can not desire any to make sut for me. If of his own will he do sue for ꝑ­don, banishmē, ꝑpetual prison, or what his pleasure shalbe for me, I were to blame, if y^t I would take it vnthankefullye. Albeit I knowe deathe, and spedie dispache were moste well come vnto me, Well, quoth he, I will tell hym to mo­rowe, y^e thoughe you can not nor wil not make sute, to any to sue for you: yet you wil be content, If he on his lordshipes good will will [Page] labour on your behalfe. yea, quod I, and to tell you truth, where I perceaue that others doo sue for me, (meaninge Perciual, Cressuel and maister Harpsfeld) I had ra­ther my Lord of Darbye shoulde doo it: for that my frendes & the countrye mighte lesse be offended at hym, bycause he maste haue the burning of me. After this talke with my keper maister Clayden: there cōmeth one of the Queenes seruauntes and officers, (whose name I will not reherse) whiche after a litle talke fel down on his knees, and with teares besought me, for the passion of Christe: that I would a litle loke to my self, to make some sute, &c. For, quoth he, (swearing an othe) it will not be longe vnto, before thou shalte be able to doo more good, then euer [Page] thou dideste. But I shewing my selfe not vnthankefull for his good will: departed from hym, as one litle lusting to heare suche counsell. Of him I lerned, twes­daye followinge, was the vtter­most daye I shoulde tarrye here. Within an houre after this mānes departure frō me: the keper mai­ster Clayden called me, sayinge that he perceaued, howe that my frend Perciual had told him, that maister Harpsfeld had written to maister doctor Martin: to be a meanes to the Counsell for lōger tyme for me. Where vpon, quoth he, I thincke it were beste to send my Lord of Darbie worde of this to might: lest he be preuēted. And I aunswered thus. That as he thought good, so he mighte doo. But, quoth I, beware I hertelye [Page] praye, that you doo not tell my lord any thing, that I desire this. For if you do, it will in y^e ende be more againste you then with you. And he promised the same, and so departed oute of hande to the Court. Vpon the .17. day (whiche was sondaye) in the after nowne, Perciual Cresse wel sent me word by him that came firste with him, that if I woulde make anye sute my selfe, or wil any to doo for me. I might spead, but els, quoth he, nothing wil be done, as he p̄sently hath receiued answere of my lord Chauncelor. wel, quoth I, I am at a pointe, and so toke my leaue, lokinge still when the Sheriffes woulde come for me. For I had heard ouer might, that one of the Garde whiche was appointed to cōueye me down, into Lākishiere: [Page] had told one that they hade war­ning against to morowe for me.

Vppon the .18. daye (whiche was twesdaye) I hearde that the write for my execuciō was called in again, and the Sheriffe of Lā ­kaishiere discharged of me for y^e presente. And in the after nowne one of my Lorde of Darbis men brought me worde: howe that my lord had taken greate paines for me, and had kneled before, the Queene, and many more wordes, desiring me som thing to se to my selfe now. But, quoth he, what, & how muche is done for you I can not tell, but this muche I thincke saith he, you shal haue your boks, and time ynough to peruse them. Well, quoth I, I praye you har­telye, thancke my Lorde for hys good wil towardes me, I shal (as I haue done pray) y^t God woulde [Page] giue vnto hym, as to my selfe, the which is all I can do. For doinge for my selfe, as I woulde be sorye that my lord or you, shuld thincke any waueringe in me for my doc­trine: so I would be lothe, but to doo all for my selfe, that I can do with a good cōscience. And as for tyme, quoth I, & bokes, although I see it is but a lingering of the tyme: yet I am glad of it, in this respecte: y^t my lord, & others may know, I hold no opinion, but such as I dare sifte, and abide the rea­soning for, with any man. I trust, you and many others shal se, that oure doctrine is true, & therefore dare and desire to abide the light, and all mens lokynge on, where perchaunce it is bruted abrode, that we are altogether obstinate: and cannot defend it by lernynge, [Page] after this talke, there was a priest called maister Couppage: which began to exhorte me to take the iniuries done vnto me pacienlye. For, quoth he, I doubte not but if you wil come vnto vs: you shuld be more able to helpe manye, and your frendes also, then euer you were: bothe spirituallye and cor­porallye. If, quoth I, you kepe your maister Christe: I wil come vnto you, but other wise I knowe you not. This and such like talke we had for that presente, the Erle of Darbye his man appointynge maister Clayden my keper, in the mornyng to come to my Lord.

Vpon the .19. day, whiche was wednesdaye, Maister Clayden came from my lord, and in his na­me asked me, whether I would be contente to spake with the kinges [Page] confessor, and Alphonsus, a frier, & to send him worde. Sir, quoth I, you knowe, that as I desire cō ­ferēce with no man: so I thancke God, I am not afraied to speake with anye man: where vppon he sent my Lord worde, as he saide. And so I herd nothing til the day followinge, howe that my Lorde of Darbye, had sent backe again, two of his mē, which came to me, sayinge that they were sent to so­licite my cause, but howe or what waye I could not lerne.

Vpon the .21. daye, whiche was friday, the Archebishope of yorke, and the Byshoppe of Chichester: came to the Counter to speake with me. When I was come be­fore them, they both, & speciallye my Lord of yorke: vsed me verye gentlie, they would haue had me [Page] sit downe, and bycause I woulde not: they also woulde not sitt, so we all stode, & whether I woulde or no, they would neades I should put on, not onely my night cappe: but my vpper cappe also, sayinge vnto me, that obediēce was better then sacrifice. Now thus stāding togither, my Lord of yorke begā to tel me, howe that they were not sente to me, but of loue and chari­tie we come to you. And I, quoth he, of olde acquaintaunce whiche I haue had woith you, more then my Lord of Chichester hath had. And so cōmended me of a godlye life &c cōcluding with a question, how I was certain of saluaciō, & of my religion. Marie, quod I a­mittinge all formalities, saue y^t I thācked thē for their good wil, by the word of god, by the scriptures, [Page] I am certein of saluacion, and of my religion. Verye wel said quod my Lord of yorke. But howe doo you knowe the worde of God and the scriptures but by the church? In dede my Lorde, quoth I, the churche was, and is a meane to bring a mā more spedely, to know the scriptures, and the woorde of God, as was the woman of Sa­maria was a meane y^t the Sama­ritains knew Christ, but as when they had herd hym speake, they said now we know, y^t he is Christ, not bycause of the woordes, but bycause we our selfes haue heard hym: so, quoth I, after we come to the hearing and reading of the scriptures showed to vs, and di­scerned by the church: we doo be­leue them, and know them, not by cause the church saith they are the [Page] scriptures, but bicause they be so, beinge therof assured, by the same spirite whiche wrote and spake them▪ yea, quoth my lord of yorke, but you know in the Apostles ti­me at the firste, the word was not written. True, quoth I, if you meane it for some bokes, of the bokes of the newe Testamēt, but els, for the olde testament, Peter telleth vs that we haue Firmiorem sermonem Propheticum, a more sure worde of prophecie. Not, quod I, that it is simplie so, but in respecte of the Apostles persons, whiche beinge a liue and compassed with infirmitie: attributed to the worde written more firmitie, as where­with no faulte coulde be founde, whereas, for the infyrmitye of their ꝑsons, men perchaūce might haue founde some faulte at there per­chīng. [Page] Albeit in verie dede, no lesse obedience & faith, ought to haue ben giuen to the one, then to the o­ther, as being all of one spirite of truth. That place of Peter, quoth my Lorde of yorke, is not so to be vnderstande of the worde of God written. yes sir, quoth I, that it is and of none other. yea in dede, quoth my lord of Chichester, mai­ster Bradford doth tel you y^e truth in that pointe. Well, quoth my Lorde of yorke, you knowe that Ireneus and others, do magnify much the churche, and alledge the Churche againste heretickes, and not the scriptures. True, quoth I, for they had to do, with suche he­retickes: as dyd denye the scrip­tures, and yet dyd magnifie the Apostles: that they were infor­sed, to vse those churches wher­in [Page] the Apostles had taught, and that churche stil had receiued the same doctrine. you speake the ve­rie truethe, quoth my Lorde of Chichester, for the heretickes did refuse all scriptures, excepte it were a peice of Lukes, gospell. Then quoth I, the alledginge of the churche, can not be primarlye, or principallye vsed againste me, whiche am so farre from deny­inge of the scriptures, that I appele vnto them vtterlye, as to the onelye iudge. Io .xii. A pre­tye matter, quoth my Lorde of yorke, that you will take vppon you to iudge the Churche. I praye you where was your [...]hur­che this manye yeres? for the Churche of Chryste is Catho­licke and visible. Hytherto my Lorde, quoth I, I doo not iudge [Page] the churche, when I discerne it, from that congregacion, & those whiche be not in it. And I neuer denied the church to be Catholike and visible, althoughe at some ti­mes, it is more visible thē at som. I praye you, quoth my Lorde of Chichester, tel me where the churche, which alowed your doctrine: was this .iiii.C. yeres▪ I will tel you my Lorde, quoth I, or rather you shall tell it you selfe. If you will tell me where the church was in Helias time, when Helias said that he was lefte alone. That is no aunswere, quoth my Lorde of Chichester. I am more sorye you saye so, quoth I: But this will I tell you lordshipp, that the same eies, wherewith a mā might haue espied the church thē, yf you nowe had them: you would not saye it [Page] were no answere. The fault why the churche is not sene of you, is, not bycause the churche is not vi­sible: but bicause your eyes are not clere ynoughe to se it. you are much deceiued, quoth he, to make such a collation, betwine the churche then, & now. Verie well speks my Lord (quoth the Byshoppe of yorke) for Christes saith, Edifica­bo ecclesiam meam, I wyll buylde my churche, and not I do, or haue buyld it, but I will build it. My lord quoth I, Peter taught me to make this collacion, saying: as in the people there was false Pro­phetes, whiche were muche in estima [...]ion afore Christes comming: so shall there be false teachers nowe, and verye manye shall fol­lowe them. And as for your fu­turtence I hope your grace, quod [Page] I, wil not exclude thereby Christs church not to haue ben before▪ but rather that there is no buyldinge in the Churche, but by Christes woorke onelye. For Paule, and Apollo, be but waterers. In good faith maister Bradford, quoth my my lord of Chichester, I am sorye, to see you so litle to mind the churche. He taketh vpon him (as they al doo) to iudge the church, quod my Lorde of yorke. A man shall neuer come to certentie, that doth as they doo. My Lorde, quoth I, take me beseche you in good part, I speake simplie what I thincke: and I desire reason to aunswere my obiections your affections & sorowes can not by rules. If that you consider the ende, and cause of my condempnacion: I can not thincke, but that it shoulde so [...] [Page] thinge moue your honours. you knowe it well ynoughe, for you herd it, no matter was layed againste me, but what was ga­thered vppon myne one confes­sion. Bycause I denyed transub­stantiacion, and the wycked to receaue Christes body in the Sa­cramente: therfore I was con­dempned, and excommunicate, but not of the Church: although the pillers of the same (as they be taken) dyd it. No, quoth my Lorde of Chichester, I herd say: that the cause of youre prisone­mente was, for that you exhor­ced the people, to take the sword in the one hande, and the ma­tocke in the other. I neuer ment any suche thynge, nor speake a­ny thynge in that sorte my lord, quoth I. yea quoth my Lorde of [Page] Yorke, you behaued your selfe be­fore the Counsell, so stoutlye at the first, that you woulde defend the Religion then, and therefore worthelye were you punished. your grace, quoth I, did here me aunswere my Lorde Chauncellor in that pointe. But put the case I had ben so stote, as they and your grace make it: was not the lawes of y^e realme on me side then? wher­fore vniustlie I was punished. Onely transubstantiacion, which was had on myne owne confes­sion: was the thing, on which my lorde Chauncellor proceded. you denye the presence, quoth my lord of yorke. I do not, quoth I, to the faith of the worthy receauer. Why quoth he, what is that? thē to saye that Christe lyeth not of the alter. No my lorde, quoth I, in dede I [Page] beleue not suche a presence. I se­meth, quoth my Lorde of Chiche­ster, that you haue not red Chry­sostome, for he poīteth it. Of truth my lord, quoth I, hitherto I haue ben kepte well ynough withoute bokes, howbeit this I remember of Chrisostome, that he lyeth vp­pon the altar, as the Seraphins do, touch our lips with y^e coules of the altar in heauen, whiche is an Hiperbolicall locucion, as you knowe Chrisostome floweth with them. It is to euident quoth my lord of yorke, that you are gon to farre, but let vs come againe to y^e churche, out of the whiche you are excommunicated, I am not, quoth I, my lord: Although they whi­che seme to be in the churche, and of the churche, haue excommuni­nicate me, as the pore blind man [Page] was Ihon .9. I hope Christ rece­ueth me. you deceaue your selfe, ꝙ he, and here muche was spoken of excommunicacion. At the laste, I said my Lorde, I pray you beare with me, that whiche I shall simplye speake before you. As­suredly, quoth I, as I thinck you did well, to departe from the Ro­mishe churche: so I thincke you haue done wickedly to couple vs to it againe, for you can neuer proue it, which you make the mo­ther Churche to be christes chur­che. Oh maister Bradford, quoth my lorde of Chichester, you were but a childe when this matter be­gan. I was a yonge man then, cōming from the vniuersitie, went with the woorlde, but I tell you it was alwaies agaīst my stomack▪ I was but a child then, quoth I▪ [Page] how be it as I told you I thincke you haue done euill, for nowe we are come to the wicked mā, which sitteth in the Temple of god▪ that is in the churche, for it cannot be vnderstād of the Mahumet or a­ny out of the churche, but of suche as beare rule in the church▪ See, quoth my lord of yorke, howe you builde your faith vpō such places of scripture as are moste obscure, to deceaue your selfe, as thoughe you were in the church where you are not. Well my lorde, quoth I, thoughe I might by your frutes iudge of you and others: yet will not I vtterly condempne you for euer: oute of the churche, for per­chaunce you sinne of ignoraunce▪ & if I were in your case, I thincke not, quoth I, that I should not cō dēpne him vtterly y^t is of my faith in the Sacrament knowinge as [Page] you know, that at y^e least .viii.C. yeres after Christs, as my lord of Durisme writteth: It was free to beleue, or not to beleue transub­stātiatiō. This is a toye, quoth he that you haue found out of your owne brayne, as thoughe a man not beleuing as the churche doth: That is transubstantiacion were of the Churche he is an hereticke, and so none of the churche, quoth my lord of Chichester, that dothe hold any doctrine, againste the definition of the Churche, as nowe you do hold against transubstan­ [...]atiō. And he brought furth Ci­prian whiche was no Hereticke, thoughe he beleued rebaptizinge of them, whiche were bapti­zed of heretickes, bicause he held it, before the churche had defined it, where as if he had holden it af­ter [Page] then had he ben an hereticke. Oh my lord, quod I, wil you condempne to the deuil any man that beleueth truely, the .12. article of y^e faith, wherein I take the vnitie of Christes churche, to consiste, al thoughe in some pointes, he be­leue not the definitions of that, whiche you cal the churche. If I shall speake to you franckelye, I doubte not but he y^t holdeth syn­cerlye the articles of oure belefe, thought in other thinges he dis­sent from your definitions, yet he shalbe saued. yea, quod they both, this is your doctrine. No, quoth I, it is Paule, whiche saith, that if they hold the foundacion Christe, thoughe they build vppon hym. Hey strawe and stouble: yet they shalbe saued. Lord god, quoth my lord of yorke, howe you delite to [Page] leyne to so hard, and darke places of scripture, yea, quoth my Lord of Chichester, I will shewe you howe that Luther doth excommunicate zwinglius for this matter, so red a place of Luther, making for his purpose. My lord, quoth I what Luther writteth, as you muche passe not of, so do I in this ca­se, my faith is not build of Luther zwinglius, or Ecolampadius in this point. And in dede to tel you truelye, I neuer red anye of their woorkes in this matter. As for their persons, what so euer theire sayinges were, yet doo I thincke assuredly, that they were and are gods children, and sainctes with him. Wel, quoth my lord of yorke, you are out of the cōmunion of y^e church, I am not, quoth I. For it cōsisteth, & is in faith. Loo, quoth [Page] he, howe you make your churche inuisible, that would haue the co­munion of it, to consiste in faithe, yea, and like your grace, quoth I, for to haue cōmuniō with y^e churche, neadeth not visiblenesse of it, cōmunion consisteth, (as I said) in faith, and not in exforior ceremo­nies, as appeareth both by Paule, whiche woulde haue Vnam fidem, & by Ireneus to Victor for y^e ob­seruaciō of Ester, saing that Dis­sonantiam ieiunii should not Rum­pere consonantiam fide. That same place, quoth my lord of chichester, hath often euen wounded my cō ­science, because we disceuered our selfes frō the Sea of Rome. Wel, quoth I, God forgeue you, for I thincke you haue done euyll, to bringe England thyther againe, your honors know, I am plain, & [Page] therfore I beseche you beare with me. Here my Lord of yorke toke a boke of paper, of common places out of his bosome, and red a peice of Saint Augustine Contra Epi­stolam fundamenti, howe that there were many thinges, that did hold saint Augustine in the bosome of the church, consent of people and natiōs, aucthoritie cōfirmed with miracles, nourished with hope, increased wyth charitie, establi­shed with ātiquitie. Besides this: there holdethe me in the churche, saith saint Augustine stil, the suc­cessions of priestes, from Peters seate vntil this present Bishoppe. Last of all the verye name of Ca­tholicke doctrine dothe holde me. Loo, quoth he, howe saye you to this of Saint Augustine, point [...] me oute your churche thus. My [Page] Lord, quoth I, this of saint Augustine maketh as muche for me as for you, althoughe I might aun­swere, that al these, if they had ben alledged to bee so firme as you make them, they might haue ben alledged againste Christ, and his Apostles, for ther was the lawe, and ceremonies consented in by the people, confirmed with mira­cles, antiquitie, and continual succession of byshoppes frō Aarons tyme, vntil that present: In good faith, quod my lord of Chichester, maister Bradford, you marke to muche the state of the churche, be­fore Christs comming: Sir, quod I, therein I do but as Peter tea­cheth .2. Pet. 2. and Paule verye oftē. you would gladly haue your church heare, verye glorious, and as a most pleasante Ladie, but as [Page] a moste pleasante ladye, but as Christes saith, Beatus est quicunque non fuerit offensus per me: so maye his churche saye, blessed are they that are not offended at me. yea, quoth I, my lord you thinck none is of the church, but such as suffer persecutiō. what I thincke, quod I, god knoweth. I pray your grace, iudge me by anye wordes and speaking, and marke what Paule saythe. Omnes qui volunt, all that wil liue godly in christ Iesu, must suffer persecutions. Sometime Christ church hath reste here, but commonlye, quoth I, it is not so. And specially towardes the end, her forme wil be more vnsemlye. But what saye you to sainct Au­gustin, quoth he, where is youre Churche, that hath the consent of people & nations? Mary, quod I, [Page] al people & natiōs y^t be gods peo­ple, haue cōsented with me & I w^t them in the doctrine of faith. Loo, quoth he, howe you goo about to shifte of all thinges. No my lord, quoth I, I meane simplye, and so speake god knoweth. S. Augustī quoth he, dooth here talke of suc­cessiō, euen frō Peters sea: yea, & like your grace, ꝙ I, that sea, thē was nothīg so much corrupt as it is now, Wel, quod he, you alwaies iudge y^e church. No my lord, quod I. As christs shep discerne christs voice, but they iudged not it: so they discerne the churche, but not iudge her. yes that you do sath he [...] No & like your grace, quoth I, ful wel may a mā doubte of y^e Romish church, for she obaeth not Christs voice, as christs true church doth, wherin quod he, ī latē seruis, ꝙ I, [Page] & robbeth the Laytye of Christes cuppe in the Sacramentes. Why quoth my lord of Chichester, Lat­ten seruice was in England when the Pope was gon. True, quoth I, tyme was when the Pope was awaye, but not all Poperie as in Kyng Henrys dayes. Latten ser­uice, quoth my lord of yorke was appointed to be songe & had in y^e Queare where only were. Clerici, that is such as vnderstād laten, y^e people sitting in y^e bodie of y^e churche prayinge their owne priuat prayers, and this, quoth he, maye well be yet sene, by making of the Chaunsell and Quere, so as the people could not come in, or heare them: yea qut my lorde, quoth I, both in Chrisostomes tyme, and also in the laten churche in sainct Ieromes tyme, as he writteth in [Page] the preface I trowe to the Gala­thians, al the church saith, Amen. Aunswering againe mightely A­men: whereby we maye see that y^e prayers were made, that both the people herd them and vnderstod them: you are to blame, quoth my Lorde of Chichester to saye that the churche robbeth the people of the Cup. Well my lord, quod I, turne it as please you, all men knowe that the Laitye hath none of it: In dede: ꝙ I, I would wishe the churche would defyne againe that they might haue it for my ꝑt, if god make free, quoth I, who cā define to make bound generallie. Well, quoth my lord of yorke, maister Bradford, we lese but labour, for you seke to put awaye al thīgs y^t be told you to your good, your churche no man can knowe, yes [Page] that you maye well, quoth I. I pray you whereby: said he, forsoth Chrisostome shoeth it. Tantummo­do per scripturas onely by the scrip­tures, and thus speaketh he verye often times togyther, as you well knowe, quod I▪ In ded, quod he, that is of Chrisostome In opere im­perfecto, whiche maye be doubted of the thinge whereby the church may be knowen beste is successiō of Byshoppes. No my lord, quod I, Lyra ful well writteth vppon Matthew, that Ecclesia non consi­stit in hominibus ratione Potestatis secularis aut ecclesiastice, Sedin hominibus in quibus est noti [...]ia Vera et con­fessio Fidei et veritatis. And in Hi­larius time, you know he writteth to Auxcentius that the Churche dyd rather Delitescere in cauernis, them Eminere, in primariis sedibus. [Page] Here commeth one of their ser­uauntes, and tolde them that my lorde of Durisme taried for them at Maister yorkes house, for inded it was paste .12. of the clocke, vppon a .4. howres they taryed with me. And after that there mā was come, they put vp there written bokes of common places, and saide they lamented my case, and so wishing me to red ouer a boke, whiche dyd doctor Crome good, as my Lorde of Chichester sayde and wyshyng me good in words, they wente there wayes, and I to my prison.

Vppon mondaye, whiche was the .22. of Februarie about .8. of y^e clock in y^e morning which was an howre soner then was appointed. There came to the Coūter, where I was in prison to Spannishe [Page] friers. Alphonsus and the kings Confeffor (as they said) and with them twoo priestes, whiche were Englishe men, as I wene, & when the howse was voyded of other companye: I was called donne, & beinge come before them a stoole was pouled out, and I bidden sit doune: whiche thinge I did after a signe of ciuilitie geuen to them. Nowe thus sitting beginneth the Confessor to speake in latten, and aske me in latten (for al our talke was in latten whether) I had not sene nor herd of one Alphonsus, y^t had writen against heresies. And I aunswered that I did not know him. well, quoth he, this man (pointing to Alphonsꝰ) is he. Ve­rye good, quoth I. After this he beginneth to tell me, howe that of loue and charitie, by the meanes [Page] of the Erle of Darbye, they come to me, bycause I desired to con­ferre with them. And I answered that I neuer desired there cōming nor to conferre with them, or any other, but, quoth I, seing you are come of charitie, as you saye, I cannot but thanckfully acknow­ledge it, and as for conference, though I desire it not: yet, quoth I, I wyl not refuse to talke with you, if you will. Than began Al­phonsus to tel me, that it were re­quisite I did pray vnto god, that I mighte followe the direction of gods spirite, and as he should en­spire me, not being addicte to min owne selfe, will, and with: where vpō I made a prayer, & besaught god to directe al our wille words, and workes, as the willes, words and workes of his children for e­uer, [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] yea, quoth Alphonsus, you muste praye with your herte. For if you speake but with tong onely God, will not giue you his grace. Sir, quoth I. doo not iudge leste you be iudged, you haue hearde my wordes now charitie would haue you to leaue the iudgement of the hart to god, you must, quoth Al­phonsus be as it were a newter, & not wedded to your sentence. But as one standinge in doubte, praye and beleue, & be redye to receaue what god shall inspire, for, quoth he, in vaine laboureth our tong to speake els: Sir, quoth I, my sen­tence if you meane it for Religion must not be in a doubting, or vn­certein: as I thācke god, it is not euen for that where in. I am con­dēpned, I haue no cause to doubt. but rather to be most certein of it, [Page] & therfor I pray god to confirme me more in it, for it is his truthe. And therfore bycause it may abid y^e light, I dare be bolde to haue it loke on, & cōferre it with you or a­ny man in respecte wherof I am glad of your cōming & thācke you for your cōming, althoughe (as I said) I desired not your cōminge, nwas willing of your cōming, or cold be cōtēt of it otherwise. Why, quod he, what is y^• matter where­fore you were condempned, for we know not, sir quod I, ī prisō haue I ben all most two yeres, I neuer trāsgressed any of y^e lawes: wher­fore I might iustlye be punished. But because I frāckly confessed, whereof I repēt not my faith con­cerninge the sacrament being de­maūded in these two points. One that there is no trāsubstantiaciō, [Page] the other that the wicked doo not receaue Christes bodie,▪ Lett vs quoth, he loke a litle on the firste, do you not beleue christs presence raallye and corporallye in the for­me of bread? No, quoth I. I doo beleue that there Christ is present to the faith of the worthye recea­uer, as there is present bread and wyne to the sences, and outwarde man, as for any suche presence of including and placing Christe, I beleue not, nor dare not do. Why, quoth he, I am sure you beleue Christes natural body is circum­scriptible. And here he made mu­che a do, of two natures of Christ, howe that the one is euery where, & the other is in his proper place, demaunding questiōs here about whiche I aunswered with etiam, that is affirmatiuelye, bycause [Page] they were suche, as no wise man would haue spente any such tyme about as he did, for I neuer herd of any, that woulde haue denyed them. Nowe then, commeth he to this conclusion (whiche I prayed hym, he woulde make: for els he had forgotten) howe that because christes body was circumscripti­ble concerninge the humanitye in in heauen, therfore it was so in the bread. This hanges not togither, quod I, because you are here. Er­go you are at Romme, it is out of Fraunce, bycause christes body is in heauen. Io. it is in the Sacra­mēt vnder the forme of bread. No wise man wil graunt it, quoth I. why, quoth he, you wil beleue no­thing but that which is expresely spoke, in the scriptures, yes syr, quoth I, I will beleue what so e­uer [Page] you shall by demonstracions out of the scriptures declare vnto me, he is obstinate saieth he to his fellow: But, quoth he, to me is not god able to do it. yes syr, quoth I But heare the questiō is of gods will, and not of his powre: Why, quoth he. Doth he not say plain­lye this is my bodye? yes, quod I, and I denye it not, but that it is to the faith of the worthie receuer. To faith, quoth he? howe is that? Forsothe syr, quoth I, as I haue no tong to expresse it: so I know you haue no eares to heare and vnderstād it, for faith seyth more, then man can vtter, yea, but, quod he, I can tel all that I beleue, you beleue not muche then, quoth I. For if you beleue the ioies of hea­uen: if you beleue no more then you can tell, you wyll not muche [Page] desire to come thyther, for as the mynde is more capable and receauable then the mouth, so it con­ceaueth more then the tonge can expresse, Christe sayth, it is hys bodie, quoth he. And so saye I af­ter a certein maner, quoth I: Af­ter a certein maner, quoth hee that is after another maner then it is in heauen, saint Augustin, quoth I telleth it more plainlye, that it is Christes bodye, after the same maner circuncysion was the Co­uenaunte of God, and the sacra­ment of faith, is faith, or to make it more plaine, as Baptisme, and the water of baptisme is regene­ration. Verye wel said, quoth he, Baptisme and the water therof is a sacrament of gods grace & sprit in the water, closing the baptisme. [Page] No syr, quoth I, away with your inclosing on the same sorte christs bodye is in the bread, on whiche sorte the grace and spirite of God is in the water. In y^e water, quod he: is gods grace by significaci­on: so is the bodye in the breade, quoth I, in the Sacrament, you are muche deceaued, quoth he, y^t make no difference beetwene the sacramētes that be stāderes, and the Sacramētes that are traun­seuntes, and passers by. As for ex­ample, the sacramente of Order whiche you denye, thoughe saint Augustine affirme it, is standerd although the ceremonie be paste. But in baptisme so sone as the bodie is washen, the water cesseth to be a sacrament. True good syr, quoth I. And so it is in the lordes supper, no longer then it is in vse, [Page] is Christes sacrament. Here was maister Alphonsus wounderful­lye chafed, and speake (as often he had done before) so: that y^e hole house dyd ringe againe with an Echo. He hath a great name of lerning. But surely he hath litle pa­cience. If I had ben any thynge whete: one house could not haue kepte vs bothe. At the lenght he cometh to that point, that I could not find in y^e scripture, baptisme, and the Lords supper, to haue a­ny like similitude togither. And here (lord god) what aray he mad, how that we would receaue no­thinge but scripture: & yet we are able to proue nothing by the scripture, Father, ꝙ I, for so I called him, God forgiue me if I dyd a­mysse, be paciente, and you shall see, y^t by the scripture I will finde [Page] baptisme and the Lords supper, coupled togither. No, quoth he, that canst thou neuer doo, let me see one texte of it, and a great ado he made. At the lenght: syr, quoth I, Paule sayeth, that as we are baptized into one bodie: so we are Potati in Vno spiritu, we haue dron­ken of one spirite, meaninge it of the Cuppe in the Lordes supper. Paule hath no such wordes quod he▪ yes that he hath, quoth I. I trowe he hath not, quoth the kin­ges confessor. Giue me a Testa­ment, quoth I, and I wil showe it to you: so a priest that sate by thē gaue me his testamente, & I sho­wed them the plaine texte. Here was nowe lokinge one vpon an other, finallye this simple shifte was founde: that Paule spake not of the sacramēt. Wel, sir quod [Page] quoth I, thoughe the texte be plaine, yet I wene the fathers do expoūd it so, especially (except my memorie faile me:) Chrisostome doth it. Here I seing thē blancke: I began to tel them howe I had byn handled in prison, with oute boke, paper, pen, yucke, and howe vniustly I had ben handled, and prayed them, that as they tolde me their comminge was to do me good: so they woulde doo it, and not to do me hurte, whiche thyng they much marked not, because of the foyle they had, which I would haue suppressed. Alphonsus ther­fore whiche had the Testamente in his hande, and turned ouer leafe by leafe: at the lenght he commeth to the .5. to the Corin­thiens: and there red howe that he was giltye, whiche made no [Page] difference of the lordes bodie, yea syr, quoth I, but therwith he say­eth, he that eateth of of the bread, callinge it bread stil, and that, af­ter consecraciō as you cal it. And so brought furth the sentence of the .10. to the Corinthe: the breade whiche we breake. &c. Oh, quoth he, how ignoraunt are you which knowe not that thinges retaine the names they had after their cō ­uersion: as Moyses Rood. And here they called for a Bible, and so was all moste a quarter of an houre, before he could find out the place, finding faulte at the Bible: bycause it was Vataples Bible. At the lenght when he had found it: lord God howe he triumphed but I cooled the heate furthwith for syr, quoth I, there is menci­on made of the conuersion, as [Page] well as the same appered to the sence, but, quoth I, here you can­not fynd it so, finde me one worde how the bread is conuerted: and I will then saye, you bringe some matter, that maketh for you. At these wordes he was troubled, & at the lenght, he said, howe that I hanged on mine owne sence. No, quoth I, that doo I not. For I will bringe you furth (for .viii.C. yeres after Christe) the fathers of the church, to cōfirme this which I spake. No, quoth he, you haue the churche againste you. I haue not quoth I, christ church against me. yes y^t you haue sayth he. And so asked me what the church was. Marie, quoth I, Christs wife, the cheare, and seate of veritie. Is she visible, quoth he. ye that she is, quoth I, if that you wil put on the [Page] spectacles of gods word to loke on her. This churche, quoth he, hath defyned the contrarye, and that will I proue by all the good fathers continuallye, frō Christes Ascencension, euer, for .15.C. yeres at y^e leaste, cōtinually. What, will you proue so quoth I, transub­stantiation? yea, quoth he, that y^e bread is turned īto Christs bodie. you speake more then you can do quod I. That do I not quod he. Then quod I. I wil giue place. Wil you beleue quod he. Beleue▪ ꝙ I▪ is gods gift, therfore cannot I ꝓmise, but I tel you, quod I, that I wil giue place, & I hope shal be­leue gods truth, alwaies so good is he. Here he foūd a grreat faulte w^t me, y^t I would not deserne be­twixte Habitum et actum, as though Actus, which he called credulitie, [Page] had ben in our powre, but this he let passe, & cōmeth againe, asking me, if he could proue it, as he said: whether that I would giue place. yea ꝙ I, that I wil. Here was called for, paper, pen and yncke, to writte. And then I said, what and if that I proue it you, continual­lye for .viii.C. yeres after Christe, at the least, the substabnce of bred to remayne in the Sacrament, by the testimonie of the Fathers: what will you do, quod I? I will giue place, quod he, with this, pa­per came in. Then said I, writte you, howe that you wyll gyue place, if I so proue, & I wil write, that I wyll gyue place yf you so proue. Bycause you are the aunciente, you shall haue the pre­eminaunce. Lord God howe an­gry he was nowe, and said that he [Page] came not to lerne at me, & so saide here is two witnesses (meaning it of the two pristes) and they be sufficiedt. And so here about we had much ado to none effecte: but to a plaine scolding, if I had not giuē place to the furor of Alphonsus, for he was verye testie and hastie, and here he dispreased Bucer, and all that praised hym, with muche other talke. At the lenght, the con­fessor asked me of the seconde que­stion what it was. Sir, quoth I, that the wicked men receaue not Christes bodie in the sacrament, as Sainte Augustin speaketh of Iudas, that he receaued Panem domini but not panem dominū. S. Augustin sayth not so, quoth Al­phōsus. yes y^t doth he, quoth I, & so they rose vp, & talked no more of that matter, but asked me how [Page] they should get me all the fathers and old aucthors, that proue and affirme the bread to be turned in­to Christes bodie. Sir, quoth I, you maye sone doo it, howbeit by­cause you shall not trouble youre self: if I maye haue my bokes, I nead no more but notes of y^e pla­ces. Thus they went their waies, howe they brooked my talke: I cā not tell, for they bad me not fare­well. After they were gon, com­meth one of the priestes, and wil­led me not to be so obstinate. Sir quoth I, be not you so wauering. In all the scriptures cannot you find me non est panis. yes thst I can, quoth he, in .5. places. Then will I eate your boke, quoth I, so the boke was opened, but no place founde, and he wente his waye smiling. God helpe vs.

[Page]Vpon the .21. of Marche, by the meanes of one of y^t Erle of Darby his men, lefte behind my lorde, his maister, for y^e soliting of my cause as he said to me: there came to the Coūter to diner, one maister Col­lior, ones warden of Maūchester, & the said seruaūt of y^e Erle of dar­bie, of whome I lerned y^e maister doctor Westone Deane of westm̄, would be with me in y^• after none aboute .2. of the clocke, or before. At diner therfore when the sayd warden dyd discommend kynge Edwarde, and went about to sett furth the aucthoritie of the Pope, whiche I with stode, defendinge the kinges faith, that it was Ca­tholike, and that the aucthoritie of the Byshoppe of Rome his su­premycie was vsurped, bringing furth the testimonie of Gregorie [Page] which calleth y^e name of supreame head to be a title of y^t foriner to an techrist: a woman prisoner was brought in, where vpō I toke oc­casiō to rise frō the table, & so went to my prison Chāber to begge of god grace, and helpe therin, con­tinuing there stil vntil I was cal­led down to speake which maisterster Weston. So soone as I came into the hall: maister weston ve­rye gentlie toke me by the hand, & asked me how I did, with such o­ther talke. At y^e lenght he willed auoidaunce of the chāber, so they all went out, saue maister weston himself, maister Collior, y^e Erle of Darbie his seruaūt, y^t subdeane of we wm̄, the keꝑ maister Clayden, & the ꝑson of the churche wher the Counter is. Nowe then he begin­neth to tel me, how y^t he was often [Page] mynded to haue come vnto me, beinge therto desired of the Erle of Darby and, quod he, after that I perceaued by his man, that you could be cōtented rather to speake with me, then any others: I could not but come to do you good if I cā, for hurt be sure I wil not. Sir quoth I. When I perceued by the reporte of my lord seruaunte, that you did beare me good will more (as he said) thē any other of your sorte: I told him thē, that therfore I could be better contente & more willing to talke with you, if you should come vnto me. This did I say, quoth I, other wise I desired not your comminge. Well, quoth he, nowe I am come to talke with you, but before we shal entre into any talke, certein principlis we muste agre vppon, whiche shalbe [Page] this daies worke. Firste, quoth he, I shal desire you to put awaye all vayne glorie, and not to holde any thinge for the praise of the world. Sir, quoth I, Augustine maketh that in dede a peice of the definition of an hereticke, whiche if I can not put awaye cleane (for I thincke there wil a spice of it re­mayne in vs, as longe as this fleshe liueth) yet I promisse you by the grace of god, that I pur­posse not to yeld to it, god I hope will neuer suffer it to bare rule in them, that striue there againste, & desire all the dregges of it vtter­ly driuen out of vs. I am gladde. quoth he, to here you saye so, al­though in ded, quoth he. I thīcke you do not so muche esteme it, as others doo. Secondly I would desire you that you wil put away [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] singularitie in your iudgement & opiniōs, syr, quod I, god forbed y^t I should sticke to any singulari­tie or priuat iudgement in godes religion. Hitherto I haue not de­sired it, neither do, nor mind at a­ny time, to hold any other doctri­ne then is publicke, & Catholicke, vnderstāding catholicke, as good men do, according to gods worde. Very wel, quod he, this is a good dayes woorke, I hope to do you good: and therfore nowe thirdly, I shal pray you to write me Capi­ta of those thinges, where vppon you stand in the Sacrament, and to sende them to me, betwixte this and wednesdaye nexte, vntil whi­che tyme, yea vntil I come to you againe, be assured that you are with oute all perill of death. Of my fidelitie I warraunte you, [Page] therfore awaye with all dubita­cions &c. Sir, quod I, I wil write to you the groundes I [...]ene to, in this matter. As for death if it co­me: well come be it, this whiche you require of me, shalbe no great let to me therin. you knowe saith he, that Saint Augustin was a Manicean, yet was he conuer­ted at the lenght: so I haue good hope of you. Sir, quod I, because I wil not flater you: I would you shoulde flatlye knowe, that I am euen setteled in the religion wherfore I am condempned. yea but, quod he, if it be not the truth, and if you see euident matter to the contrarie, will not you then giue place? God forbed, quod I, but that I should alwayes gyue place to the truthe. I would haue you to pray so, quod he. so I doo [Page] quoth I, and that he wil more and more cōfirme me in it, as I thācke god he hath done, and doth: yea, but, quoth he, praye with a con­diciō if you be in it. No. syr, quod I, I cānot pray so, bycause I am setteled and assured of his truthe. Wel, quoth he, as the lerned by­shoppe aunswered Saint Augu­stines mother that thoughe he was obstinat: yet the teares of su­che a mother coulde not but wene her sonne: so, quod he, I hope your prayers. (For min eyes did showe that I had wepte in prayer) can­not but be herde of God thoughe not as you woulde, yet as beste shall please god, do you not, quod he, remember the hystorie hereof, yes syr, quoth I. I thincke it to be of saincte Ambrose. No, quod he, that it is not, and here he woulde [Page] haue layed a wager: and began to triumphe sayinge. As you are ouerseen herein, so you are in the other thinges. Well syr, quoth I. I will not contend with you for the name, this I remember sainct Augustin writteth in his Confes­sions. After this talke he begon to tel: howe that the people were by me procured to withstand the Queene, but I badde him han­ge me vppe, as a traytour, and a theif: if euer I encouraged any to rebellion, whiche thinge my ke­per and others that were there of the priests affirmed on my behalf. So muche talke there was at E­phesios, bowe he had saued men goinge in the carte to be hanged, suche like. The ende was this, that I shoulde send? vnto hym, capita doctrine of the supper, and [Page] after wednesday he woulde come vnto me again, and thus depar­ted he, after that he had droncken to me in beare and wine, I omitte here, talke of Oxford, of bokes of German writters, of the feare of death, and suche other talke whi­che are to no purpose.

Vpon the .28. of Marche came to the Counter Doctor Pendel­ton, and with hym Maister Col­lior, ones warden of Maunche­chester, and Stephen Beiche. After salutacions, maister Pen­delton begā to speake to me, that he was sorrie for my trouble. And further, quod he, after that I did know you could becōtēt to talk w^t me I made the more spede, being as redye to doo you the good, and pleasure that I can, as you would wishe &c. Syr, quod I, [Page] the maner howe I was contente to speake with you was on this sorte, maister Beiche was often in hand with me, whom he should bringe vnto me, and named you amongest other. And, quod I, I remember that I sayd, I had ra­ther speake with you then wyth anye of all other. Nowe the cau­se I so would, I will brieflye tell you, I remember that ones you were (as farre as a man mighte iudge) of the religion that I am of, at this presente. And I re­member that you haue sette fourthe the same earnestly. Glad­lye therefore woulde I learne of you, what thynge it was, that moued your conscience to altre: & gladly would I see what thing it is or was y^t you haue seen sithē, which you sawe not before. Here [Page] maister Pendeltō was som thing abashed, as appeareth by his fō ­bling in his spech. Maister Bradforde, quod he, I do not knowe wherfore you are condempned. Marye, quod I, transubstantia­cion is the thinge, wherof I am condempned, and also the denyall of wicked men to receaue Christs bodie, wherin I would desire you to shewe me what reasons, which before you knewe not, dyd moue your conscience to altre: for ones as I sayd you were as I am in religion. Heare again maister Pen­delton halfe amased, begon to ex­cuse him selfe, if it would haue bē, as though he had not denyed ful­lye transubstantiacion in dede, all though the word, quod he I said was not in scripture. & so he made an endlesse tale of the thinge that [Page] moued hym to altre. As far as I cold perceaue, it was because he had loked to muche, and giuen to muche diligence and estimacion, to Luther and Melancton. But, quod he, I will gether to you the places, and send them. And here he desired me, that he mighte see a Copie of that, which I had sent maister Weston, the whiche I did promise hym. This is a some of the effectual talke we had. Be­sides whiche talke, we had a rea­sonninge a litle, whether euil men did receaue Christes bodie. I no. & he, yea. I said they receaued not the spirite, Ergo not the bodie: for it is no carcase, quoth I, hereto I brought out saint Augustin, how Iudas receaued Panem domini, and not Panem dominum, how that he must be in corpori Christi, that [Page] must receaue Corpus christi, which he went about to put awaye, with idem, and not, ad idem, out of saint Ierome and howe that in cotpore Christi, was too bee vnderstande of al that be in the visible church, althoughe they be not in the inui­sible churche with God, whiche I denied to be Sainte Augustines meanynge, and saide also: that saint Ieromes allegations could not make for that purpose. Again we had talke of transubstantia­cion. He bringeth furth Ciprian, Panis quem dedit Dominus natura mutatus. And I expounded Natu­ra, not for the substaunce. As quod I, the nature of an herbe is not the substaunce of it: so the breade chaunged in nature, is not to be taken for chaunged in sub­staunce, for nowe it is ordeyned [Page] not for the food of the bodie sim­plye, but rather for the food of the soule. And here I broughte fourth Gelasius, whome he saide was a Pope. yea marye, quod I. But his fayth, is my faith, quod I, for the Sacrament, if you wold receaue it. From this talke we wente to talke, wether Acci­dentia were Res or no. If they be properlie Res, quod I, then be they substaunce, and if they be substaunce, (in that we muste haue Tetrestrem rem, and eayrth­lye substaunce in the Sacrament as Ireneus saithe): then muste we not denye bread, quod I. But he saide that colour was the ear­thelye thynge, and called it an accidentall substaunce. And so here aboutes wee hadde muche [Page] [...] [Page] [...] [Page] babling to none effecte. I omitte the talke we had of my Lorde of Caunterbury, of Peter Martirs boke, of his letter laied to my charge. When he was condempned of y^e church, whether Dic ecclesie et ce ▪ was of the vniuersall churche, or of a particular churche, which at the lenght he graunted of vayne glorye, whiche he willed me to be ware of at his comming furth of the Countre, and suche like talke. A litle before his departinge, I sayde this. Maister doctor, quod I, as I saide to Maister weston the laste daye, so saye I vnto you againe, that I am the same man in religion againste tran­substantiacion still, which I was when I came into prisō: for, quod I, hitherto I haue seen nothynge in anye pointe, to infirme me. At [Page] whiche wordes he was som thing moued, & said, that, that was not Catholicke▪ yes, quod I, and I truste so to proue it, euen by the testimonie of the catholicke fathers, vntill Concilium Lateranense, and there abouts. The keper maister Clayden desired hym to tarrie di­ner, whiche thing he denyed: by­cause had els wheare promised. And so wente his waye: sayinge, that he woulde came after to me: god one father, be with vs al, and giue vs the spirite of his truth for euer. Amen.

In the after nowne about .5. of the clocke, cometh maister westō, whiche sente worde to the keper, that he would haue ben with me▪ by .2. of the clocke. Nowe when I was come down out of my prison chamber vnto him: he very gent­lye [Page] saluted me, desired the com­panye: euerie man to departe, and so sat donne, and I besides hym. And after that he had thancked me for my writtinge vnto hym: he pulled out of his bosome the same writing, which I had sent hym. The copie whereof in Englishe (for I did writte it in Laten) shal immediatly follow this commu­nicacion. And before he began to read it, he showed me, that he as­ked of my conuersacion at Cam­bridge sithen his being wyth me, &, quod he, maister Bradford by­cause you ar a mā, not giuē to the glorie of this world, I wil speake it before your face: your life I ha­ue lerned was such there alwaies, as al mē, euen y^• greatest enemies you haue: can not but praise you, & it. And therfore I loue you, quod [Page] he muche better then euer I did. Nowe, quod he, I will reade ouer your argumēts, & so we wyll con­ferrthē. Such they ar, that a man may well perceaue you stande of conscience, & therfore I am glad, and the more redye to pitie you. So he began to rede the first, and there beganne to tell, howe that thoughe the worde transubstan­tiacion began but lately: yet the thinge, quod he, was & hath bene sithen Christes institucion. And I told him, that I did not contend, or hange vppon the worde onlye: but vpō the thing which, quod I, is as newe as the worde. Then went he to the second, and there broughte oute sainte Augustine, howe that if an euil man, goinge to the deuyll, did make his will: his sonne and heyre would not saye, hys father dyd lye in it, [Page] or speake tropically. Much more Christe, quod he goinge to god, did neuer lye nor vse any figura­tiue speach in his laste wil and te­stament. Do you not remember this place of saint Augustin, quod he? yes syr, quod I. But I remē ­ber not that saint Augustine hath those wordes, tropice or fygura­tiue, that is figuratiuelye spoken as you reherse. For a man maye speake a thinge figuratiuely and lye not, as Christe did in his last supper. After this he wente to the third, and broughte furtho Ci­prian, howe that the nature of the bread is turned into fleshe. Here faith he that my Lord of Caunter burie expoundeth nature, for qua­litie by Gelasius, the whiche in­terpretacion serueth for the aun­swere of your third argumēt, that [Page] Christe called breade his bodye, that is the qualitie, forme, and apparaunce of bread. And further quod he, the scripture is wonte to call thinges, as they auerr, by the same names. As Symon the Le­per, not whiche was so presentlye, but bicause he had ben so. Syr, quod I, Cipriā wrote before Ge­lasius, therfore Ciprian must not expound Gelastus, but Gelasius, Ciprian, and so they both teache that bread remaineth stil. As for thinges hauinge still the names they had maketh nothinge to aunswere this except you could shew, that this nowe were no bread [...] as easelye a mā might haue knowen and seen then, Simon to haue ben healed and cleane from hys Le­prosey. After this he wente to the foerth of the Cuppe, the which he [Page] din not fully red but digressed in­to a longe talke of Ciprians Epi­stles De aquarus, Also of Saint Augustine, expoundinge the breakinge of bread by Christe to his. 2. Disciples goinge to Emause, to be of the Sacramente, with such other talke to no certein purpose, and therfore I prayed him, that in as muche as I had written to hym, the reasons that stablishe my faith against transubstantia­cion: so he woulde doo the lyke to me, that is, aunswere myne by writinge, and shew me moo rea­sons in writinge, to confirme trā ­substantiaciō, which he promised me to doo, and said that he would sende or briynge it to me agayne, with in three dayes. And so when he hadde ouerlye reade my ar­gumentes, and heare and there [Page] speake, litle to the purpose for auoidynge of them, and therfore I eftsones prayed him to giue me in writtynge, his aunsweres: he began to tell me, how, & what he had done for Grymbolde, & howe that I neade not to feare anye re­proche or slander I shoulde su­staine, belike meanīg, to haue me secretly, to haue come to them, as Grymbold dyd, for he subscribed. And therefore I speake on this sorte vnto hym. Maister Deane, quod I, I wold gladly that you should not conceaue of me, that I passe of shame of men, simplye, in this matter: I rather would haue you to thincke of me, as the verye truth is: that hitherto, as I haue seene, nor heard nothinge to infir­me my faith againste transubstā ­tiaciō: so I am no lesse setled in it. [Page] then I was at my comminge hy­ther. I loue, quod I, to be plaine with you, & to tell you at the first, that you shall finde at the last. In good fayth Maister Bradforde, quod he, I loue you the better for your plainnesse: & do not thincke otherwise of me, quod he, but that you shall find me plaine in al my talke with you. Here he began to aske me of my imprisonment, and condempnacion. So I began, & told hym, how I had ben hādled, wheare at the semed to wounder: yea in playne wordes he saide, I had ben handled otherwise, then I had gyuen cause: & so showed me, howe that my Lorde of Bath reported, that I had deserued a benefite at the Queenes hande, and at all the Counsels. In this kind of talke we spent an houre almost. [Page] and so as one wery I did arise vp▪ and he called in the keper, and before hym bad me be of good com­forte, and to bee out of all peril of death. Mary sir quoth the keper, but it is in euery mās mouth: that hee shal dye to morowe. Whereat, he semed some thyng halfe ama­sed, and sayde, hee woulde goe be­fore euensong, before the Queene and speake to her on my behalfe. And I thynke, the Queene hadde almoste supped at that presente, for it was paste sixe of the clocke. Before the keper I tolde hym a­gaine, that styll I was the same manne I was at the firste, and til I should see matter to touch con­science to the contrary: must nedes so continewe. The keper desyred me, to hearken to mayster Doc­tours counsayle, and prayed. M. [Page] Doctor to bee good vnto me. And so after we hade dronke together: maister Doctor with most gentle woordes, tooke his leaue for three dayes. Nowe when he was gone: the keper tolde me, how that may­ster Doctor spake opēly, how that he sawe no cause why thei should burne me. Whiche sentence for the ambiguitie of the meaning, made me sorye leste I had behaued my selfe in any thinge, wherin he ga­thered anye conformablenesse to them in their doctrine, which god knoweth I neuer as yet dyd so. God oure father blesse vs, as hys chyldren, for euer, and keepe vs from all euyll for euer. Amen. V­pon the fifth daye of Apryll came maister Doctor Westō to the coū ­ter aboute .2. of the clocke in the [Page] after noone, who excused hymselfe for beyng so long absent: partely by sickenes, partely for that Doc­tor Pendleton tolde hym that hee woulde come vnto me, and parte­ly for that (quoth he) I withstoode certaine Monckes, which would haue come agayne into Westmin­ster. After whiche talke, he told me howe that the Pope was dead, and then he tolde me, how he had spoken to the Queene for me, and how that death was not nere vn­to me. Laste of all, he excused him­selfe, for not aunswering myne ar­gumentes against transubstanci­acion: because my commynge to daye (quoth he) was more by for­tune then of purpose. I woulde gladlye (quoth I) omittyng all o­ther talkes, haue seen an aunswer to my argumentes.

[Page]Why (quoth he) you haue remem­bered some thynge what I spake to you, whē I was last with you. No sir (quoth I) I neuer called them in maner to mynde, sythen that tyme, as well because I ho­ped you would haue writtē them: as also for that they semed, not to bee so materiall. In good faith (ꝙ he) I cannot see any other or bet­ter waye for you, then for to sub­mit youre self to the iudgement of the Churche▪ Marye so I wyll sir (quoth I) yf so be, by the churche you vnderstand Christes church. Lo (quoth he) you take vpon you to iudge the church. No sir (quoth I) that doe I not, in takyng vpon me to discerne, I do not iudge the church. yes that you do (quoth he) and make inuisible. I dooe ney­ther, quoth I. Why, sayth he, who [Page] can see youre churche? Those sir, quoth I, that haue spiritual eyes, wherewith they mighte haue dys­cerned, Christes visible conuersa­cion heare vpō earth. Nay, quoth he, Christes churche hath thre to­kens, that all men may looke well vpon: namely, vnitie, antiquitye, and consent. These thre, quoth I, may be as well in euil as in good, as well in synne as in vertue, as well in the deuyls churche, as in Gods churche. As for ensaumple, quoth I, Idolatrie amongest the Israelites had al those thre. Chri­sostome telleth plainly, as you wel knowe saide I, that the church is well knowen, Tantummodo per scripturas alonely bi the scriptures. In good faithe, ꝙ hee, you make your churche inuisible, when you wyll haue it knowen alonelye by [Page] the scriptures. No sir (quoth I) the scriptures dooe playnely set furth to vs, the churche, that all menne maye well ynough, thereby know her, yf thei list to loke. The church (ꝙ hee) is like a Towre or towne vppon a Hyll, that al men may se. True sir (quoth I) al men that be not blynde. Visible ynough is the churche, but menues blindnes is great. Impute not therefore to the churche, that whiche is to bee im­puted to mens blindenes. Where (quoth he) was your church forty yeares agoe? or where is it nowe? excepte in a corner of Germanye. Forsooth sir (quoth I, the churche of Christ is dispersed, and not tied to this or that place, but to y^e word of god: so that where it is, there is Gods churche, yf it bee truelye [Page] taught. Loe (ꝙ hee) is not thys to make the church inuisible? Poi [...]n me out a realme, a hundreth yeres paste, whiche mayntayned youre doctryne. Syr (quoth I) yf you wyl, or woulde well marke the state of the church, before Christes commynge, with it now, (as saint Paule and Peter wylleth vs) I thynke you woulde not looke for suche shewes of the churche to be made: as to poynte it oute by realmes. You knowe (quoth I) that in Helyas time both in Isra­el, and els where, Gods churche was not poyntable: and therefore cryed he oute that he was lefte alone. No marye, quoth he, dyd not God say that there was .7000 whyche hadde not bowed theyr knees to Baale? Loe, sayeth he, 7000. shewe me seuen thousande a [Page] hundreth yeares agoo of your re­ligion. Syr (quoth I) these .7000. were not knowen to men, for then Helias woulde not haue sayde, that hee hadde bene before left a­lone. And thys is playne ynough, by that whiche the texte hathe, namelye, that God sayeth Reliqui, I haue reserued to me .7000. Marke that it sayeth, God had reserued to hym selfe to hys own knowledge, as I doubt not but the hundreth yeares agoe, God hadde hys, 7000. in hys proper places, thoughe menne knewe not thereof. Well maister Brad­forde (sayeth hee.) I wyll not make youre case woorse, then for transubstanciacion, all thoughe I knowe that we agree not in Other matters. And I praye you (quoth he) make you it youre [Page] selfe not woorse. If I canne dooe you good I wyll, hurte you I wyll not, I am no Prynce, and therefore I cannot promyse lyfe: excepte you wyll submytte youre self, to the diffinicion of y^e church. Syr (quoth I) so that you wyll defyne me your churche, that vn­der it, you brynge not in a false churche: you shall not see but that we shal soune bee at a poynt. In good fayth maister Bradford, (quoth hee.) I see no good wyl be doone, and therefore I wyl wishe you as muche good as I can, and hereafter I will perchaunce come or sende to you agayne, and so he sent for maister Weale and depar­ted. Nowe after his departynge: commeth the keper maister Clay­don, and Stephen Beiche, and they were verye hotte with me, [Page] and spake vnto me in suche sorte that I should not loke but to haue thē vtter enemies vnto me, not­withstandyyng the frende­shippe, they both haue hi­therto pretended. God bee wyth vs, & what matter is it who bee agaynste vs.