Hee ſaith,

1 THat becauſe he perceiueth, that diuers exceptions are taken againſt his late letter written to Cardinall Bellarmine; he is willing to ſet downe his iudgment more fully, concerning the duetie which all Subiects doe owe to their Soueraigne Lords, vnder whom they were borne; and conſequently all Catholickes Engliſhmen, vnto his Maieſtie KING IAMES.

2 Firſt hee ſaith, vpon certaine demaunds propounded vnto him, That he acknowledgeth all the precepts in the New Teſtament, as touching obedience to Emperours, Kings, and Ciuil Magiſtrates, to be perpetuall, and may not be changed or qualified by any authoritie whatſoeuer, either Eccleſiaſticall or Ciuil: and that what Subiect ſoeuer, aſwell Eccleſiaſticall, as Lay doeth violate any of them, vpon any occaſion, o • at any time, or by vertue of any diſpenſation, or o • any intent, to profit thereby the Catholike cauſe and aduance Religion, or for any other cauſe whatſoeuer, he doeth therein ſinne mortally: 〈◊〉 euer being vnlawfull to do euil, that good might come of it.

3 That hee vtterly condemneth all thoſe who ſhall preſume to affirme, that either Chriſt or his Apoſtles did temporize in the ſaid precepts as meaning that Subiects were no longer bound to obey the Emperour, Kings, and ſouereign Princes, being wicked, Apoſtatas, or heretiques then vntill they were able by force of Armes to ſuppreſſe them: that impious conceit in thoſe dayes being farre in his iudgement from the godly Biſhops and Chriſtians then liuing.

4 That whereas in the Apoſtles times, and ſo afterwards for the ſpace of about 300. yeeres the Emperors were not only Pagans themſelue (except it were one of them) and refuſed to embrace the Goſpel, but likewiſe endeauoured by all the meanes they could, of crueltie, and mo •• bloodie perſecution, to ſuppreſſe the propagation of it; foraſmuch as the godly Biſhops, Fathers, and Chriſtians in thoſe dayes, hauing learned their duties of obedience from Chriſt and his Apoſtles, neither taught nor put in practiſe any courſe of diſobedience, nor bare armes againſt them, though (as Tertullian ſaith) they had ſufficient Tertull in Apolog. cap. 37. force ſo to haue done: he this Examinate doeth greatly approoue ſuch their dutifull obedience; affirming, that in his iudgement they had ſinned mortally, if they had done otherwiſe.

5 That euen in the caſe of Iulian (who, hauing firſt embraced the Goſpel, became afterwards an Apoſtata) the godly Biſhops, Fathers, and Chriſtians in thoſe times, although ſome writ bitterly againſt him, yet they did not excite his Subiects to beare armes againſt him, nor did themſelues enter into any rebellion: either of which courſes, if they had attempted, this Examinate thinketh (as before) that they had greatly offended God, and broken the precepts of Chriſt and his Apoſtles: adding, that therein he ioyned with S. Auguſtine, where he ſpeaketh of the duty Augustine in Pſal. 124. which Chriſtians performed to Iulian, though he were an Apoſtata: Iulianus extitit infidelis Imperator. Nonne extitit Apoſtata, iniquus, Idololatra? Milites Chriſtiani ſeruiebant Imperatori infideli. Vbi veniebatur ad cauſam Chriſti, non agnoſcebant niſi illum, qui in coelo erat. Quando volebat, vt Idola colerent, vt thurificarent; praeponebant illi Deum: quando autem dicebat, Producite aciem, ite contra illam gentem, ſtatim obtemperabant. Diſtinguebant Dominum aetertum à domino temporali: & tamen ſubditi erant, propter Dominum aeternum, etiam domino temporali. That is, Iulian was an vnbeleeuing Emperour. Was hee not an Apoſtata, an oppreſſour, and an Idolater? Chriſtian Souldiers ſerued an vnbeleeuing Emperour: when it came to the cauſe of CHRIST, they did acknowledge none but him, that was in Heauen. When he would haue them to worſhip Images; and to ſacrifice, they preferred God before him: but when he ſaid, Bring forth an Army, goe against ſuch a Nation, they foorthwith obeyed. They distinguiſhed the eternall Lord from the temporall, and yet were ſubiect vnto the temporall lord, for the Eternall.

6 This Examinate hauing thus declared his iudgement in the premiſes; it was demanded of him, whether he had ſeene the Popes laſt Breue, dated at Rome, 10. Calend. Septemb. 1607. beginning, Renunciatum eſt &c. and what, vpon the ſight therof, his iudgement now was, as touching the lawfulneſſe of the oath of Allegeance before by him taken. Whereupon he ſayeth, that hee hath onely ſeene a Copie of the ſaid laſt Breue: that he hath very carefully peruſed, and weighed euery ſentence and clauſe in it, and that neuertheleſſe he remaineth ſtedfaſtly in his former opinion and iudgement, viz. That it is lawful for all Catholickes in England to take the ſaid oath of Allegeance, publiſhed the laſt Seſsion but one of this preſent Parliament, and that he conſtantly is fetled, as touching euery part and member of the ſaid oath, formerly by him taken, that they are true: and that this he doth acknowledge, without any equiuocation, or mentall euaſion, or ſecret reſeruation whatſoeuer, to all intents and purpoſes, as if he ſhould here againe haue repeated the ſaid oath at large.

7 This Examinate being here required, foraſmuch as in his iuſtification of the ſaid oath, and of his taking of it, ſince his ſight of the laſt Breue, he doth relie vpon his former opinion and iudgement; which notwithſtanding in the Letter written to Cardinall Bellarmine, he doeth ſtrangely qualifie (contrary to the expectation had of him heere for his plaine dealing and ſinceritie:) that therefore he ſhould deliuer the grounds and reaſons of his ſaid iudgement, why he firſt aduiſed the Romiſh Catholicks to take that oath, with an aſſurance giuen by vertue of his authoritie, that it was lawfull for them ſo to doe: for anſwere hereunto he ſaith, that the effect of the reaſons ſent by him to Rome (as he ſaid in his Examination now publiſhed in Print, and a briefe abſtract whereof he deliuered to certaine of the Lords of his Maieſties moſt honourable priuſe Counſell) was grounded vpon the points following.

8 It is well knowen (ſaith he) to all that be learned, and will be graunted without any contradiction, that the Pope may not proceede with Princes, otherwiſe then is behoouefull for the Church. Foraſmuch then as he may be oftētimes ignorant (as Alphonſus Mendoza faith) whether Alphonſ. Mendoza. the order and proportion of temporall things do indeede tend directly and truely in finem ſpiritualem, to a ſpirituall end, and for the good of the Catholicke Church; and that he cannot otherwiſe diſcerne of ſuch circumſtances, but ſecundùm humanum intelligentiaemodū, according to the meaſure of humane intelligence: and beſides, for that he may erre in hijs iudicijs quae ad particularia facta pertinent, in thoſe iudgements which concerne particular facts, (as Couarruuias affirmeth) and the rather becauſe the Pope (as this Examinate feareth) Couarruu. tom. 1. pag. 184. though hee hath all things at commandement, doeth yet ſtand in theſe dayes in neede of one thing, obſerued heretofore by a graue Biſhop, viz. of a faithfull Counſellor alwayes at hand to tell him the trueth: for it may bee doubted, leſt Rodericus Epiſcopus Zamorae in ſpeclo humanae vitae. lib. 2. cap. 3. now it happen, as it did in the ſayd Biſhoppes dayes, that from the higheſt to the loweſt, euery one is giuen to ſoothe him vp: they tell him ſmooth tales, but many doe deceiue him: in theſe reſpects therefore this Examinate is of opinion, that the Popes proceedings may oftentimes be iuſtly miſliked, and refuſed.

9. And to this purpoſe, this Examinate further Summa Syluest. in verbo obedientia num. 5. ſaith, that he is fully of Sylueſters minde and iudgement, where he truely ſaith, and reſolutely affirmeth, that if the Pope ſhould command any thing that doth ſapere peccatum, ſauour of ſin, were it but a veniall ſinne, (the Pope ſuppoſing his commandement to be iuſt) he were not to be obeyed therein, when thoſe that are ſo commanded by him, doe know his commandement to be vniuſt: that if by obeying the Pope it may be vehemently preſumed, that great trouble will enſue to the ſtate of the Church, or that ſome other euill or future ſcandall may thereby ariſe: the Pope in that caſe is not to be obeyed, although his commaundement be enioyned to be obſerued ſub poenâ excommunicationis latae ſententiae: vnder paine of excommunication ipſo facto. And againe, that if the Pope ſhould commaund a thing vnder paine of Excommunication, ex cuius executione praeſumitur ſcandalum animarum vel corporum futurum in ciuitate; non eſt ei obediendum: by the execution whereof it is preſumed that ſome detriment will inſue in that citie, vnto the ſoules, or bodies of men: he is not therein to be obeyed;

10. Out of which the premiſſes (being well conſidered) this Examinate ſaith, that the State of ENGLAND weighed, as now it is, if the Pope vpon any inſtigation ſhould excommunicate his Maieſtie, depoſe him from his Crowne, releaſe his Subiects from their obedience, and command them vnder paine of Excommunication to beare armes againſt him, &c. although he the ſaid Pope were perſwaded, that ſuch his proceedings and commandements were iuſt: yet foraſmuch as the Catholickes here in England of any vnderſtanding, might eaſily perceiue and diſcerne, that ſuch an Excommunication ſhould ſapere peccatum, or might vehemently be ſuſpected, that it would procure a great perturbation of the ſtate of the Church, or produce ſome other euill, or future ſcandall; and that the execution of it would bring with it (by preſumption) a great detriment or ſcandall to the ſoules or bodies of Catholickes: they were not bound in thoſe caſes, to regard the ſaid Excommunication, or any thing therein contained, at the leaſt, to put the ſame in execution: it being a generall and a true rule, that Peters power was giuen him onely, ad aedificationem, to edification: quod alijs verbes ſolet dici, claue non errante: which in other words is vſually ſaid, the key not erring, as Salmeron hath well obſerued: for as he further ſaith, if it be vſed in deſtructionem, Salmer. tom. 4. pag. 416. & 420. to deſtruction, non eſt poteſtas, aut potentia, ſed impotentia, & defectus: hoc poſſumus, quod iure poſſumus: It is not ability or power, but impotencie and defect: wee can doe that, which we can iuſtly doe: as this Examinate hath written in his Letter to the Cardinall.

11 And with relation to the Popes humane intelligence, Sylueſter his poſitions, with the other circumſtances and cautions mentioned, this Examinate ſaith, that he writ to Cardinall Bellarmine in this ſort, viz. that the Pope hath no power to depoſe his Maieſtie, quia inde perturbatio Eccleſiae, & euer ſio Catholicorum noſtrorum in bonis & poſſeſſionibus, & detrimenta plurimarum animarum prouenirent: becauſe the perturbation of the Church, and the ouerthrow of the Catholickes with vs, in their goods and poſſeſsions, and the damage of very many ſoules would thereby enſue, And againe, Si Amplitudinis veſtrae mitiſsima diſpoſitio vel minimâ ex parte conciperet ruinas familiarum Catholicarum, quas inferret recuſatio iuramenti; certè non diſſentiret à nobis, qui ex luctuoſiſsimis ſpectaculis videmus, inde profecturam eſſe non modò iacturam animarum, ſed etiam totius ſtatus Catholici apud nos lamentabilem extirpationem. That is, If your Amplitudes most milde diſpoſition did but in the leaſt part conceiue the ruines of Catholick families, which the refuſall of that oath would bring vpon vs, ſurely you would not diſſent from vs, who by most wofull ſpectacles do finde, that from thenee were like to proceede, not onely the hazard and loſse of many ſoules, but the moſt lamentable extirpation of the whole Cathoplicke ſtate amongst vs. And preſently after, Deoſitie Regisnoſtri non eſset, in ordine ad ſpiritualia promouenda, ſed euertenda: That is, the depoſition of our King would not tend to the order of promoting matters ſpiritual, but of ouerthrowing them. Moreouer, Qui aequo oculo pericula noſtra intueretur, facilè aduerteret, poteſtatem ſummi Pontificis, in depoſitione Regis noſtri, iam contineri non poſſe intra fines ordinis ad ſpiritualia ſubleuanda, ſed excurrere ad ſupprimenda omnia, quae hactenus in ſpiritualibus benè poſita fuerunt. That is, Who ſo ſhould with an indifferent eye behold the dangers we are in, would eaſily perceiue, that the Popes power in depoſing our King, cannot as the caſe ſtandeth, be conteined within the bounds of any order for the aduancing of ſpirituall matters, but doeth rather breake forth to the ſuppreſsing of all, which hath beene hitherto well ſetled in things ſpirituall.

12. Now vpon theſe ſaid grounds and ſome others, (needleſſe then to haue bene ſent to Rome) he this Examinate ſaith, that he doubteth not, but that all Catholickes in England might and may ſtill take the ſaid oath of Allegeance, there being no one clauſe in it, which, by the doctrine and exceptions here aboue mentioned, may not well and truely be iuſtified. Beſides, this Examinate ſaith, hee did then chiefly ſtand vpon the grounds mentioned, becauſe they were moſt perſpicuous and apparant, euen to the ſimpleſt ſort of Catholicks, and were likely to find ſome good acceptation at Rome, the ſame being in euery branch of them agreeable to the doctrine, in this behalfe there allowed and maintained.

13 Of the inſufficiencie of this anſwere, it was told him, he ſhould afterwards heare more. In the meane time it being demanded of this Examinate, why he himſelfe, at the time that he tooke the ſaid oath, did ſeeme to relie vpon his Maieſties ſpeeches, deliuered in Parliament 19. of May 1603: whereas he had before taught the Romiſh Catholicks, and ſent his reaſons to Rome to that end, to prooue it to be lawfull for them to take that oath, without any ſuch reference to his Maieſties ſpeaches: he anſwering ſaith, 1. that before hee euer reſolued any Catholicke of the lawfulneſſe of that oath, he had heard of his Maieſties ſayd ſpeaches, though he did not alledge and ſpecifie them to any, before he came himſelfe to take that oath. 2. that at his owne taking of the oath, he did in part relye vpon them, and ſo profeſſed, becauſe he ſuppoſed, that thereby he ſhould ſtay ſome mens ouer haſtie, and precipitate conceits of his taking that oath, and ſuſpend their opinions of his meaning therein, foreſeeing what great oppoſition was like to be made againſt him (as he touched in his ſixth Examination already in print) for yeelding thereunto, eſpecially after the diuulging of the Popes firſt Breue, and ſome other letters, aduiſing all Catholicks to the contrary. 3. that being in priſon, he thought it his beſt courſe (if he could) both to ſatiſfie the State, and to content the Catholicks; which made him to take hold of any fit occaſion, that might auaile him to that end, doing nothing therein againſt the trueth, though he concealed by that meanes ſome part of it, which now hee perceiueth will bee drawen from him, to ſome mens diſlike he feareth, but (as he hopeth) to Gods glory, the diſcharge of his conſcience, and the good of all graue and moderate Catholicks.

14. Here, vpon occaſion, becauſe this Examinate found, that it was aſcribed vnto him, as a fault, in that he being a priſoner ſhould write to a man of Cardinall Bellarmines ranke, without notice firſt giuen thereof to the State: he was very earneſt, before any more queſtions were demanded of him, that he might haue licenſe to deliuer his mind in that behalfe. Which being yeelded vnto, he ſayth: that being charged by the Cardinall to haue in a ſort denied the Popes Supremacy, in that he tooke the oath of Allegeance: and hauing certaine places vrged againſt him to that purpoſe out of Leo and Saint Gregorie: foraſmuch as he this Examinate perceiueth thereby, that the ſaid Cardinall did not diſtinguiſh betwixt the oath of the Kings Supremacy (ſo termed) made 1. Eliz. and the oath of Allegeanee ſet out 3. of his Maieſtie; the firſt being ordeined for the aboliſhing altogether of the authoritie in cauſes Eccleſiaſticall, out of this Realme, and the ſecond, without any relation at all to the former, onely ſeeking to preuent certaine inferences therein mentioned, which were ſuppoſed might enſue, by vertue of an Excommunication, and did tend to the great hazard, and endangering of his Maieſties perſon (as it is ſuppoſed) and to the miſleading and ouerthrow of many of his Subiects: hee this Examinate thought himſelfe bound in conſcience to write an anſwere to the ſaid Cardinall, as well for the clearing of himſelfe in that point (he being readie, if he had twentie liues, to yeeld them all in defence of the Popes ſupremacie in cauſes Eccleſiaſticall) as alſo for the ſatiſfaction of ſo great a perſon, for whoſe hard opinion of him he would be right ſorie. And therefore touching his fact herein, if it be thought amiſſe of, he humbly craueth pardon.

15. Now as concerning the inſufficiencie of this Examinates anſwere, touching his reaſons ſent to Rome, for the lawfulneſſe of taking the oath of Allegeance, conſiſting of the Popes humane intelligence ſubiect to errour, Sylueſters reſolutions, how no ſuch courſe, as is pretended in the oath of Allegeance could bee vndertaken againſt his Maieſtie by the Pope, (the preſent ſtate of England conſidered) becauſe the ſame ſhould tend, not to edification but to deſtruction: it was told this Examinate, that all theſe points ſo well by him enlarged, did come farre ſhort of the meaning of the ſaid oath: becauſe it is very vncertaine, what the Romiſh Catholickes in England would doe, if the Pope ſhould de facto proceede with his Maieſtie, as ſome of his predeceſſours did with the late Queene of worthy memorie; which vncertaintie the State may not endure. For although the wiſer, and more prouident ſort of Romiſh Catholickes might in that caſe for a time draw backe: yet what the ſeduced multitude were like enough to doe, if they were able; that is to be foreſeene and prouided for. Beſides, it may well be doubted, what the ſaid tempotizers would doe, if a fit opportunitie ferued them. Moreouer, of what force this conceite was to reſtraine the late moſt horrible Traitours, Catesby, Garnet, and the reſt, from their moſt barbarous and ſauage deſignements, it is apparant. It is the trueth without colour, that muſt either direct mens conſciences, or elſe it is but daubing with vntempered morter: nothing but miſchiefe is to bee expected from them. Howbeit ſuppoſe the beſt of this deuiſe and euaſion. If the Pope well aſsiſted, did account and determine any extremitie to be vndertaken againſt his Maieſtie, to be in ordine ad ſpiritualia, it is more then probable, that his word and iudgement would bee rather accepted of by the greater number, then that priuate mens exceptions and limitations would at ſuch a time be able to preuaile, or be of any moment. For the preuenting of all which kind of miſchiefes, it is moſt apparant, that amongſt other reſpects for the preſeruation of his Maieſtie and the State, the ſaid oath (vpon the ſaid moſt barbarous occaſion, that euer was giuen to any King, either heathen or Chriſtian) was ordeined.

16 And therefore this Examinat being here required, that for the better contentment of the State in whoſe hands hee is, and for the trueth ſake, wherewith God is honoured, he ſhould open his minde ſimply and plainely, why in writing to the Cardinall, he telleth him, that he tooke the oath in this ſenſe: Summum Pontificem non habere Imperialem & Ciuilem poteſtatem ad libitum, & ex ſuo appetitu deponendi Regem noſtrum: That the Pope hath not an Imperiall and Ciuill power, to depoſe our King, when he pleaſeth, and at his owne appetite: ſuggeſting, that the ſaid oath had no other meaning: and that this ſenſe was thrice inſiſted vpon (before hee this Examinat tooke the ſaid oath) and allowed of by the Magiſtrate: whereas the words of the oath (which he this Examinat tooke, for ought that appeared to the contrarie, without any equiuocation, or mentall euaſion whatſoeuer) are cleare and manifeſt, viz. That the Pope neither of himſelfe, nor by any authoritie of the Church or See of Rome, hath any power or authoritie to depoſe the King. The oath ſaith, that the Pope hath no power by any authoritie of the Church or See of Rome, viz: neither Imperiall, Ciuill, nor Eccleſiaſticall, whereas this Examinat telleth the Cardinall, that he onely ſware againſt his Imperiall, and Ciuill power, whereby he might not ſo proceede with his Maieſtie.

17. With theſe particular exceptions, this Examinate being ſomewhat troubled, deſired againe, that before he came to the anſwering of them, he might a little (as by the way) bewayle himſelfe, and his preſent eſtate: which he did in manner as followeth, ſaying:

That it was no little griefe vnto him to be apprehended, and caſt into priſon; that thereupon he hoped his former troubles and oppoſitions againſt him would haue ceaſed: that notwithſtanding, as matters are proſecuted, and his proceedings interpreted, hee receiueth nothing but diſcomfort from each ſide: that his friendes might haue bene content, to haue expounded his oath in the beſt part, and the rather, becauſe they perceiued hee found thereby, that he had giuen ſome reaſonable contentmēt to the State, for the eaſe of his impriſonment (being an old man, and troubled with many bodily infirmities) and for the auoyding of ſome further extremities: that Cardinall Bellarmine might well haue forborne his Letter vnto him. as alſo his ſharpe cenſures of him, as if by taking the ſaid oath hee had fallen with Peter, in denying his Maſter, and with Marcellinus, who offered a falſe ſacrifice, and that thereby he this Examinate had brought in queſtion one of the chiefe heads of faith, and foundations of Catholicke religion: that hee the ſaid Cardinall might eaſily haue foreſeene, that albeit there had beene no copies of his Letter taken, before it came to him this Examinate, yet that ſuch a vigilant eye is had ouer him in priſon, as that it is almoſt impoſsible for him to haue kept it vndiſcouered, eſpecially there being ſuch bruites of it caſt abroad, as there were, euen by thoſe that ſhould haue concealed it: that likewiſe the ſaid Cardinall might not onely well haue thought, that if it happened his Letter to be diuulged, more hurt then good was likely thereof to enſue, except he thought it fit to bring him (this Examinate) into greater hatred, then he was before (which could not auaile the common cauſe) and to prouoke his Maieſtie to ſome greater extremities, then of his moſt milde and temperate diſpoſition he is inclined vnto; but likewiſe that it was his this Examinates part in all duety to anſwere his Letter, which would be alſo (as it hath now fallen out) as impoſsible (his caſe conſidered) for him this Examinate to performe with any ſecrecie, as it was, that his the ſaid Cardinals Letter ſhould come vndiſcryed vnto this Examinate: that as hee greatly ſuſpecteth, the Cardinals ſaid Letter was cunningly opened, before it came to his this Examinates hands; ſo he is perſwaded, that his anſwere vnto it will be vſed in the like ſort, before it come to the Cardinall: and the rather he ſo thinketh, for that he findeth alreadie the copie of it by skill and practiſe, to be as ſoone publiſhed abroad here in England, as this Examinate could diſpatch it for Rome; which doth greatly perplexe him, and what may be the iſſue of it, he knoweth not, but feareth (as he ſaith) the worſt at al hands: that notwithſtanding, come what ſhall come, his hopes being paſt (which were neuer great) his libertie reſtrained, (neuer to be recouered) the graue expecting him (which he moſt deſireth) no ioyes, nor comforts but in his bleſſed Sauiour, he is reſolued with patience to expect and vndergoe it: that theſe and many other ſuch courſes held with him, do oftentimes exceedingly grieue and trouble him, in that men abroad and at libertie, haue no more care of poore men, impriſoned for thoſe cauſes, which they would ſeeme moſt earneſtly to affect: and that thus hauing eaſed a litle his heart, and referring himſelfe, and his cauſe to God, he will now addreſſe himſelfe to anſwere all the partes of the obiection aboue mentioned, ſyncerely and truely from the bottome of his heart, as becommeth a true Catholicke prieſt, and as he is perſwaded in his conſcience, without any equiuocation, or euaſion, and without regard or feare of any mens perſons, or of any inconuenience, or further danger, that might thereby enſue vnto him, or of any ſlanderous imputations, which he doth eaſily foreſee will be heaped vpon him, of purpoſe to diſcredite both him, and that which he findeth he muſt needes acknowledge, except he ſhould wilfully denie the trueth, or ſhew himſelfe obſtinate and peruerſe againſt lawfull authority, which his preſent eſtate, and conſcience will not permit.

18 And therefore now as touching his this Examinats ſignification vnto Cardinall Bellarmine, that the effect of his oath was: Summum Pontificem non habere Imperialem & ciuilem poteſtatem ad libitum, & ex ſuo appetitu deponendi Regem noſtrum: That the Pope hath not an Imperiall and ciuill power to depoſe our King, when he pleaſeth, and at his owne appetite: he will (as he ſaith) anſwere the ſame, not in groſſe, but by degrees, ſaying firſt; That amongſt diuers prerogatiues attributed to the Pope in temporalibus in temporalties, this is one, which cannot be well denied by any, viz. that the Pope is truely lord of all the temporalties belonging to the Biſhopricke of Rome. Within the compaſſe whereof there are ſome who haue included England and Ireland, and one eſpecially, whoſe memorie this Examinate doth greatly honour: but yet he muſt needes acknowledge his ouerſight in that point. Thus hee writeth: Without the approbation of the See Apoſtolicke, none can be lawfull King or Queene Admonit. to the Nobilitie by Card. Allen 1588. pag. 8. of England, by reaſon of the ancient accord, made betweene Alexander the third, the yeere 1171. and Henry the ſecond, then King, when he was abſolued for the death of Saint Thomas of Canterbury: that no man might lawfully take that Crowne, nor bee accounted as King, till hee were confirmed by the Soueraigne Paſtor of our ſoules, which for the time ſhould be: this accord afterwards being renewed about the yeere 1210, by king Iohn, who confirmed the ſame by oath to Pandulphus the Popes Legate, at the ſpecial requeſt and procurement of the Lords and Commons, as a thing moſt neceſſary, for preſeruation of the Realme from vniuſt vſurpation of Tyrants, and auoyding other inconueniences, which they had proued, and might eaſily fall againe, by the diſorder of ſome wicked king. Vnto this report, as it ſeemeth, and to ſome other idle conceits a Polonian of late hauing relation, and making mention of the purpoſe aforeſaid, of king Henry the ſecond, and of king Iohn, he writeth (this Examinate ſaith) in this ſort, ſpeaking of the Parliament, and of the oath of Allegeance: Illud impiè legiſlatores per iuſiurandum extorquent à Staniſla. Criſtanouie Examen Cathol. fol. 34. Catholicis, vt negent poſſe à Pontifice Regem deponi, & de ipſius Regnis & ditionibus diſponi. Si enim honorariè & piè tributarium regnum Pontifici, quare diſponere, quare refractarium, & inobedientem Principem deponere nequit? That is, The law-makers doe impiouſly by an oath extort this from the Catholicks, to denie that the King may be depoſed by the Pope, and his kingdomes and countries by him diſpoſed of. For if by an honourable and pious graunt, the kingdome haue become tributarie to the Pope: why may he not diſpoſe of it? why may he not depoſe the Prince, being refractarie and diſobedient?

19 Concerning the which aforeſaid aſſertions, touching both the ſaid kings, this Examinate affirmeth, they are vntrue. Henry the ſecond neuer made any ſuch accord with Alexander the 3. as is aboue mentioned, for ought this Examinate could euer reade in any Chronicle of credite. He ſware to Pope Alexander, that he (for his owne part) would not depart from him, or his ſucceſſors, Ro. Houeden Annal fol. 303 quamdiu ipſum ſicut Regem Catholicum habuerint: ſo long as they ſhould entreate him as a Catholicke king. And touching king Iohn, inaſmuch as his fact that way is of ſome more probabilitie, but of as little trueth, and that from the ſaid reportes of them both, Staniſlaus Criſtanouic doth inferre, that the Pope may depoſe his Maieſtie, being but a tributarie King vnto him; he this Examinate, by taking his oath, that the Pope had no Imperiall, or Ciuill power ouer the king, to depoſe him, did thereby diſcharge his conſcience, for the iuſtifying of a trueth againſt the ſaid falſe reports; that of king Iohn being as vntrue as the former. Which this Examinate ſaith he doth the more boldly affirme, becauſe he hath one of no ſmall account, (in that he died for the Popes ſupremacie) to take his part therein: beſides ſome other rules of regalitie in that behalfe. Thus Sir Thomas More writeth againſt the author of the Beggers Supplication, in king Henry the 8. time: If he (the authour of that ſupplication) Sir Tho. More ſupplic of ſoules pag. 296. ſay, as indeede ſome writers ſay, that king Iohn made England and Ireland tributarie to the Pope and the See Apoſtolike, by the grant of a thouſand markes: wee dare ſurely ſay againe, that it is vntrue, and that all Rome neither can ſhew ſuch a grant, nor neuer could: and if they could, it were nothing worth: For neuer could any king of England giue away the Realme to the Pope, or make the land tributarie, though he would. And this to bee agreeable to this Examinates owne iudgement, hee doeth acknowledge (as he ſaith) with all his heart; hoping that the ſame ſhal no way preiudice his conſtant reſolution, as touching the Popes ſupremacie, nor offend any that loueth the Crowne and State of England.

20 And as concerning his relying vpon his Maieſties words, in the ſenſe, approoued by the Magiſtrate, when he this Examinate tooke the oath of Allegeance, and inſinuating to Cardinall Bellarmine, that the ſumme of it was accordingly: Summum Pontificem non habere Imperialem & ciuilem poteſtatem ad libitum, & ex ſuo appetitu deponendi Regem noſtrum: that the Pope hath not an Imperiall and ciuill power to depoſe our King, when he pleaſeth, and at his owne appetite: he hopeth likewiſe to giue therein ſome reaſonable contentment. For which purpoſe he ſaith, it is to be obſerued, that there is an opinion long ſince broached by the Canoniſts, which hath begun of later times to be more ſtiffely, and with greater heate proſecuted and maintained, then heretofore, concerning the Popes authoritie in cauſes temporall: the authors whereof doe with great confidence affirme, that the Pope is as directly Lord of the whole world in temporalibus, in temporalties, as hee is the head of the vniuerſall Church in ſpiritualibus, in matters ſpirituall: and that hee hath directly as ſouereigne an authoritie, in reſpect of ſuch his worldly dominion, ouer all Emperours, Kings, and Princes, to diſpoſe of them and their kingdomes, when occaſion ſhall require; as hee hath, in regard of his ſpirituall ſupremacie, ouer all Biſhops and Cleargie men, to aduance and depriue them, when hee thinketh it conuenient, and that they deſerue it. The chiefe patrons of this opinion are noted by Cardinall Bellarmine to be theſe, Auguſtinus Triumphus, Aluarus 〈…〉 Pelagius, Hoſtienſis, Panormitane, and Sylueſter: to whom this Examinate doeth adde, Henricus Gandauenſis, Redericus Sancius, Alexander Alenſis, Celſus Mancinus, Tho. Bozius, Franciſcus Bozius, Iſidorus Moſconius, Card Baronius, Laelius Zecchus, and Alexander Carerius, who nameth diuers others as principall defenders of that opinion; and 〈…〉 is himſelfe ſo violent therein, as hee doeth in effect anathematize all, that do oppoſe themſelues againſt it, not ſparing Cardinall Bellarmine himſelfe: againſt whom, foraſmuch as his drift is principally, throughout his whole booke, hee was much to blame (this Examinate thinketh) to entitle it to be written aduerſus impios politicos, & noſtritemporis haereticos, againſt the wicked politickes & hereticks of our time. With this Carerius, 〈…〉 ſuch as are on that ſide doe reſolutely concurre: inſomuch as they doubt not (this Examinat conſeſſeth) to renew againe the long diſliked, and impugned aſſertions of the old Canoniſts, and to publiſh them now vnto the world more eagerly, then heretofore (as aboue he hath touched) for ſound and Catholicke doctrine; they ſaying:

21 That Dauid did foretell, that the Prieſthood of 〈…〉 Anno 57. pag. 432. Chriſt, ſhould be according to the order of Melchiſedech: That when Chriſt, being a King and a Prieſt, receiued all iudgement of the Father, that is, moſt full iudiciall power: hee ioyning the ſame with his prieſthood, did inſtitute in the Church a Regall prieſthood, Bar. Ibidem pag. 433. tranſlating in ſuos, (that is, to S. Peter and his ſucceſſours) all the power hee had of his father: That Franc Bezius de temporall Eccleſiae Monarchia, in praeſat. ad Clemen. S. except there ſhould bee one ſupreme Monarch in the Church in all things, the vnitie of the Church could not be preſerued: for ſeeing the Church, by diuine inſtitution, doth conſiſt of a Kingdome, and a Prieſthood; iſ it were otherwiſe, there ſhould bee in the ſame abſolutely one Monarch of the Kingdome, and another of the Prieſthood: That if, for the auoiding of the diſſenſions about ſacred cauſes, one ſupreme head is appointed; why not in the ſame maner of the Kingdome, that there ſhould bee one and the ſame head both of the Kingdome and Prieſthood, leſt in like ſort there ſhould be diſſenſion betwixt them? that therfore it is the rather to be held, that Peter doeth ſupply Chriſts place, not onely in the Prieſthood, but in the Kingdome, that he might bee a King and likewiſe a Priest, according to the order of Melchiſedech, who was both a King and a Prieſt.

22 That if Chriſt be King of kings, and Lord of Tho. Bozius de iure ſtatus praefat. ad Aldehrard. lords; in like ſort the Church muſt be Queene and Lady; and if he be the Lord of all temporalities, ſhee likewiſe muſt be the Lady: That all temporall regall power doeth reſide firſt in the ſoule of Christ, and then in the Idem ibidem. Church his ſpouſe, the Queene of the world, and from her is deriued to others, (faithfull or infidels) as out of a fountaine: That the Church, the ſpouſe of Chriſt and Idem lib. 1. cap. 6 ſol. 36. Queene of the world, may as oft as the order of the whole doeth require, &c. transferre the proper rights of one vnto another, as a ſecular Prince may caſt downe priuate mens houſes, for the beautifying of the Citie, or impoſe tribute, for the weale publike; that he may thus iuſtly doe, although he hath not erred, from whom ſuch rights are transferred vnto another: ſo the Pope gaue the Spaniards the Indians: That the Pontificall and Iſidor. Moſcon. de maiest. milit. Eccle. pag. 91. Idem pag. 656. Regall power, and all other powers are moſt plentifull in the Pope, and doe reſide in the Pontificall dignitie: that all Dominions whatſoeuer doe depend vpon the Church, and vpon the Pope, as the head of the Church: and that in the Pope, authoritie is conſidered, in Emperours, Idem pag. 670. and Kings power, and thence it is, that power doeth depend vpon authoritie.

23 That true, iuſt, ordeined by God, and meere Carer. de poteſt. Rom. Ponti. pag. 9. dominion, aſwell in ſpirituall things as in temporall, was brought foorth by Chriſt, and the ſame was committed to S. Peter and his ſucceſſours: That Christ Idem pag. 111. was Lord ouer all inferiours, not onely as God, but likewiſe as man, hauing euen then dominion in the earth; and that therefore, as the dominion of the world was in Christ both diuine and humane, ſo it muſt be confeſſed, that it was in the Pope, his Vicar: That as God in a ſecondarie maner, may bee called a temporall ruler and Idem pag. 112. Monarch of the world, although in himſelfe, hee is not principally worldly, or temporall: ſo the Pope may be called a temporall Lord, and Monarch, although his power be a certaine ſpirituall thing: That the myſterie of Idem pag. 120. redemption being accompliſhed, Christ as a king, gaue vnto Peter the adminiſtration of his kingdome, and S. Peter did execute that his power againſt Ananias and Saphira: That Christ as hee is man, is directly Idem pag. 124. the Lord ouer all the world in temporalties, and that therefore the Pope is ſo likewiſe, in that he is his Vicar: That the ſupreme power of iudging all, and the top of Idem pag. 126. dignities, and the height of both powers are found in Chriſts vicar.

24 That there is one principalitie, and one ſupreme Rodericus Sancius apud Carer. pa. 132. Prince ouer all the world, who is Chriſts vicar, according to that of Daniel, chap. 8. He hath giuen him power, and honour and rule, and all people and tongues ſhall ſerue him: and that in him therefore is the fountaine and ſpring of all principalitie, and from him all other powers doe flow: That the Biſhop of Idem ibidem pag. 131. 132. Rome in place of Chriſt is ſet as a Prince ouer the whole world in ſpiritualties and temporalties, and that it is naturally, morally, and by the law of God to be held with a right faith, that the principalitie of the Biſhop of Rome is the true, and onely immediate principalitie of the whole world, not onely as touching things ſpirituall, but likewiſe temporall; and that the Imperiall principalitie is depending vpon it, as being mediate, miniſteriall, and inſtrumentall, miniſtring and ſeruing it; and that it is ordeined and inſtituted by it; and at the commandement of the Papall principalitie is mooueable, reuocable, corrigible, and puniſhable.

25 That as the diuine and humane dominion were Carerius de poteſt. Rom. Pont. pag. 150. in Chriſt: ſo in Chriſts ſtead the dominion of the world in the Pope, is both ſpirituall and temporall, diuine and humane: That the vnremooueable trueth doeth deſigne, Idem pag. 151. by Peters onely comming vpon the water to Christ, that the whole dominion, which is ſignified by the Sea, is committed to S. Peter and his ſucceſſors. And that as the Pope cannot ſay, that he is not Chriſts vicar vpon Idem pag. 155. earth, ſo he cannot deny, but that he is Lord ouer all things, becauſe the earth is the Lords and the fulneſſe thereof, whereby all things, heauenly, earthly, and infernall are ſubiect vnto Chriſt the Lord: and thence it is, that he did commit vnto the Pope (who doeth ſupply his place vpon earth) the right of the heauenly and terrene Empire. That the Pope by the Law of God hath Iael. Zecchan tract. Theolog. pag. 81. power and temporall dominion ouer the whole world: that the ſame is prooued by the words of Luc. 22. Behold, here are two ſwords, which ſignifie the power temporall and ſpirituall: and becauſe Chriſt, whoſe vicar the Pope is, hath both powers, according to the words, Matth. vlt. All power is giuen vnto me in heauen and in earth; That thence it may be deduced, that the Pope is abſolutely the Lord of all the Christian world; and Kings and Chriſtian princes are to acknowledge, that they holde of him their Empires and kingdomes, and all that are faithfull ought to be ſubiect vnto him: And that as oft as ſuch princes doe any great hurt in the Church, the Pope may depriue them of their kingdomes, and transferre their right to others.

26 It is here to be obſerued, of what great reputation in Rome and Italy the authors are, whoſe opinions this Examinate doeth diſlike. For to omit Baronius the late Cardinall, Francis Bozius his booke was approued in Rome very authentically to be printed; as conteining nothing in it aduerſe to the Catholicke faith: and with the like approbation, the booke of Thomas Bozius was printed in Rome: and ſo was that of Celſus Mancinus. Moſconius his booke was printed at Venice, before the ſtirres betwixt them and the Pope: and the tractate of Laelius Zecchus was printed at Brixia. Carerius a Doctor of Padua, had his booke approoued at Padua, though it was afterwards printed at Colein. Whereupon it was thought meete, by the Examiner, (for whom it was thought as lawfull, to obiect what he thought fit, as ſor Maſter Blakwell to frame his owne anſweres, according to his owne minde) to offer vnto his further conſideration ſundry other ſpeeches of his ſaid authors, and ſome others of the like authoritie, the ſame being as pertinent to his purpoſe, as the former by himſelfe alledged; where they ſay, as followeth:

27 That the ſupreme Iuriſdiction temporall Franc. Bozius de temporali Eccleſiae Monarchia. lib. 1. cap. 3. fol. 52. Idem lib. 1. cap. 7. fol. 98. throughout all the world, doeth belong to S. Peters ſucceſſors: ſo as one and the ſame is the Hierarch and Monarch in all things: That Christ left the Church to be gouerned by the beſt forme of gouernment: but the beſt forme of gouernment is the abſolute Monarchie, euen in all temporall things; therefore Chriſt left his Church ſo to be gouerned: That the keyes of heauen Idem lib. 2. cap. 14. Idem lib. 3. cap. 1 fol. 394. were giuen to Peter; therfore of all the earth: That the right of dominion, and prelation of infidels may iuſtly, by the ſentence and ordination of the Church, be taken away; becauſe Infidels, by reaſon of their infidelitie, do deſerue to loſe their power ouer the faithfull: That the Church hath receiued that power ouer Idem ibidem cap. 14 fol. 530. nations, which Chriſt according to his humane nature receiued of the Father: but Chriſt receiued abſolutely of the Father all power in temporalibus; therefore the Church likewiſe receiued it by participation of his fulneſſe: That the ſupreme power coactiue in all Idem ibidem cap. 16. fol. 537. temporall things belongeth to Eccleſiaſticall perſons, by the diuine lawe, reuealed and expreſſed in the Scriptures: That kings anointed with holy oyle are called Idem fol. 676. Idem lib. 5. fol. 823. as vaſſals of the Church: That by reaſon of the ſupreme Monarchie in all things, temporall lawes may be made by the Church, and kingdomes taken away for iuſt cauſes.

28. That kings and principall Seculars are not immediatly of GOD, but by the interpoſition of holy Tho. B • zius de iure ſtatus, lib. 1. cap. 6. fol. 37. Idem ibidem fol 52. Idem lib. 3. cap. 5. fol. 277. Church, and of her chiefe Biſhops: That warlike and militarie compulſiue power is giuen to the Church ouer kings and princes: That if it be found ſometimes, that certaine Emperours haue giuen ſome temporalties to the higheſt Biſhops, as Conſtantine gaue vnto Sylueſter, this is not to bee vnderſtood, that they gaue any thing which was their owne, but reſtored that which was vntuſtly, and tyrannically taken from the ſaid Biſhops: That Chriſt committed to Saint Peter (the carrier of the keyes of eternall life) the right both of the Idem lib. 4. cap. 1. fol. 319. terrene, and celeſtiall Empire, as Pope Nicholas ſaith; from whom we haue it, that he is without doubt an hereticke, that taketh away the rights of the terrene and celestiall Empire, committed by Chriſt to the Church of Rome, and ſaith it is lawfull ſo to doe; and for that he ſhall be an hereticke in ſuch his aſſertions.

29 That the Pope is called vniuerſall iudge, king Iſidor. Moſc. de maieſt militant. Eccleſiae. pag. 27. Idem pag 77. Idem. pag. 95. of kings, and lord of lords: That the Pope is conſecrated, as the great Prieſt, and crowned as a king, becauſe he hath both powers: That the Pope doeth vſe his power after two ſorts, either abſolutely or ordinarily; abſolutely, when he derogateth from lawes, in aboliſhing them; ordinarily, when he vſeth lawes. Whence this rule is giuen, that the Pope vſeth the Counſell of his Cardinalles, when he will liue by his lawes: But if hee will vſe the plenitude of his power, then he diſpoſeth of matters, without the Counſell of his Cardinals, ſith his power is of God, and not of the Colledge of Cardinals: That not onely all faithfull people, but likewiſe Infidels, Idem pag. 96 and euery naturall creature is ſubiect to the commandement of the Pope; he is to bee worſhipped of all men: and for this cauſe he receiueth of all the faithfull adorations, proſtrations, and kiſsings of his feete: That Idem pag. 92. vnto the Pope, as to the Paſtor of the Church, and the Biſhop of that holy See, and by reaſon of his Dominion, and excellencie, is giuen adoratio duliae, the worſhip giuen to Images and Saints: That the Biſhop of Idem pag. 99. Rome in ſigne of his Empire and kingdome, doth vſe vpon his head a Regall Diademe, and in token of his Prieſthood and Pontificall Maieſtie, a Miter: That Idem pag. 677. Emperors and Kings may bee compelled to keepe their oathes taken in their coronation and confirmation, in that by vertue of ſuch an oath, they are made the Popes ſubiects.

30 That by the law of God and nature, the Prieſthood doeth ouer-top the Empire: and both Iuriſdictions Henrie Gandauen. apud Carer. pag. 128 ouer ſpiritualties and temporalties, and the immediate execution likewiſe of them both, depend vpon the Prieſthood, both by the law of God and of nature: That Antoninus apud Carer. pag. 130. they which ſay, the Pope hath dominion ouer all the world in ſpiritualties, but not in temporalties, are like the Counſellers of the king of Syria, who ſaid: The Gods of the mountaines are their gods: and therefore they haue ouercome vs: let vs fight with them in the plaines and valleyes, where their gods dwel not, and we ſhall preuaile againſt them. 3. Reg. 20. That the ſonne of God hath declared the altitude of the Eccleſiaſticall power, being as it Aug. Triumph. apud Carer. pag. 130. were founded vpon a rocke, to be aboue all principalitie and power; that vnto it all knees ſhould bee bowed of things, in heauen, in earth, and vnder the earth, or in Idem ibidem pag. 132. hell: That ſecular powers were not neceſſarie, but that Princes might performe that, through terrour of diſcipline, which the Prieſt cannot effect by power of doctrine: and that therefore, if the Church could puniſh euill men, Imperiall and ſecular principalitie were not neceſſarie, the ſame being included potentially, in the principalitie Apoſtolicall.

31 That there are diuers powers of men giuen by Carer. de pot. Rom. Pont. pag. 142. God, and diuerſe authorities, all which doe depend vpon the higheſt authoritie (meaning the Popes) and thence as the ſtarres from the ſunne doe receiue their light: That the Imperiall power, concerning the adminiſtration Idem pag. 145. of temporall matters, doeth proceed from the Pontificall power, as the light of the Moone doeth from the light of the ſunne: That as God is the ſupreme Idem pag. 150. Monarch of the world, and the gouernour of all temporalties, productiuè & gubernatiuè, by producing and gouerning them, though of himſelfe he be not temporall and of the world: ſo it muſt be confeſsed, that although his Vicar the Pope hath originally, and of himſelfe the dominion ouer all temporalties: yet he hath it not by immediate execution, but doeth by his vniuerſall Iuriſdiction commit the ſame vnto the Emperour: That the Biſhop of Rome is the higheſt father Idem pag. 152. and man of the world, and the vniuerſall Vicar and Lord of the world, and that all others doe depend vpon him, as their builder, and that otherwiſe, if one ſhould place the Emperour by himſelfe, in reſpect of his temporalties, he ſhould grant two beginnings, which were hereſie: That the Empire of Rome, before it was Idem pag. 161. conuerted to Chriſt, was a Dominion vſurped and tyrannicall, becauſe the true dominion was in the line of Chriſt: That the Emperour is the Popes miniſter: for Idem ibidem. God did appoint him, tanquam ſummi ſacerdotis miniſtrum, to be as a miniſter of the higheſt Prieſt: That the Imperiall power doth depend vpon God, by the Idem pag. 162. & 163. interpoſition of his Vicar, to make it complete and formall, and that the Emperour ought ſo to receiue it: That no King or Emperour hath Iuriſdiction, or dominion, Idem pag. 172. but from Chriſt, and by conſequence can haue none at all, but from his Vicar.

32 That in the higheſt Biſhop, both the powers and •• lſ. Mancinus lib. 3. cap. 1. & Carer. pag. 133. Iuriſdictions are, ſpirituall and temporall, and that as he is the moſt eminent perſon of all men in ſpirituall power, ſo is he in temporall: ſo that it may lawfully bee affirmed of Chriſts Vicar, by a certaine ſimilitude, that Plato in Timaeus ſaid of God: asking in Timaeus, what was God: he anſwereth, he is not a man, nor heauen, nor good, but ſomething better: if one aske whether the higheſt Biſhop be a Duke, a king, an Emperor, or a Prince, he ſhall anſwere warily, if by denying hee affirme, the Pope to be quid praeſtantius, quidue eminentius, ſome thing more excellent and more eminent. That the Biſhop of Rome is called Papa of Papae an Iſidor. Moſcon pag. 22. interiection of admiration: becauſe his dignitie and power is admirable to all men, and is as it were the amazement of the world, according to the gloſſe, in the proeme of the Clementines, where it is read in theſe words, Papa ſtupor mundi, non Deus, non homo, ſed vtrumque: the Pope is the wonderment of the world, not God, nor man, but both. That the Pope Ibidem. doeth execute ordinarily his iuriſdiction (temporall) in S. Peters patrimonie, but caſually in all kingdomes: That the holy hiſtoriographer in the old lawe, made the Idem pag 63. prieſthood an adiectiue to the kingdome; but S. Peter made the kingdom an adiectiue to the prieſthood: That if we will follow the phraſe of Scriptures, and attend the Greeke copie, and that tongue: it muſt needs be confeſſed, Idem pag. 66. that our Sauiour Ieſus in thoſe words: Feede, Feede, Feede my ſheepe, did ordeine his vicar, and committed vnto him temporall and ſpirituall power: That all temporall Iuriſdict on muſt be exerciſed, not Idem pag 80. at the Popes commandement, but at his becke. Princes will, charge, command; God who is lord of all, doeth by his becke command, according to that ſaying.

Dixcrat & nutu totum tremefecit Olympum: And that Chriſt had ful Iuriſdiction ouer all the world, Idem pag. 85. and all creatures, and therefore the Pope his vicar, hath ſo.

33 With the offring of theſe ſpeeches to this Examinates conſideration, he was much offended, ſaying, that now he perceiueth, it is more ſought to bring him into hatred, then to make proofe of his true Allegeance: becauſe theſe things are onely produced in ſcorne of his Hol. (as he conceiueth) in defence of whoſe Supremacie in ſpirituall cauſes, he is readie to yeeld his life: and therefore anſwered plainely, that he thought himſelfe very hardly dealt with in this point. But reply being made, that his ſaid offence taken, and diſcontentment thereupon vttered ſeemed very ſtrange, how it was come to paſſe with him, that thoſe things which are publiſhed to the world by ſo many, and with ſo great an approbation in Rome, to no other end, but that all the world ſhould take notice of them, ſo much diſquiet and trouble him, by the very repetition of them.

34 Wherunto this Examinate ſaith, that the repeating of the ſaid ſpeaches doeth not ſo much moue him, as the drift whereat they aime. For if that which is ſufficient might giue contentment, (theſe ſpeaches, produced out of the authors by him cited, agreeing in effect, with that which he himſelfe had alledged out of them) he did before declare his opinion of them; when hee termed them, the long-ſince diſliked and impugned aſſertions of the Canoniſts: and more (he ſaith) by the offering of them to his conſideration, cannot well be required of him, it being no way apperteining any more vnto him, to cenſure the flatterers of the Pope, then of Kings and Princes, who to pleaſe them, doe oftentimes no doubt ſay more then is true. Whereupon he addeth, that whatſoeuer he did cite out of the ſaid authors, he did it with much griefe, and would not ſo farre haue enlarged himſelfe therein, had he not conceiued, that his Maieſtie had an eſpeciall reſpect vnto this opinion of the Popes direct authoritie in temporalibus, ſo highly aduanced aboue all kings and Emperours, when hee vſed in Parliament theſe wordes in effect: viz. that by the doctrine of the Popes ſupremacie he (the ſaid Pope) doth not onely claime to be ſpirituall head of all Chriſtians, but alſo to haue an Imperiall Ciuill power ouer all Kings and Emperours, dethroning and decrowning princes with his foote, as pleaſeth him, and diſpenſing and diſpoſing of all kingdomes and Empires at his appetite: and that another point, which they (meaning the Catholicks) obſerue in continuall practiſe, is the aſſaſsinates and murthers of kings, thinking it no ſinne, but rather a matter of ſaluation, to doe all actions of rebellion and hoſtilitie againſt their naturall Soueraigne Lord, if he be once curſed, his ſubiects diſcharged of their fidelitie, and his kingdome giuen a praye to their three crowned Monarch. Through the which his Maieſties ſpeach, this Examinate did verily think, that the oath of Allegeance was ordeined, to meete with ſuch miſchiefes, as the Parliament ſuppoſed (according to his Maieſties ſaid words) to be dangerous conſequences of this forenamed opinion: which hee this Examinate ſignified, when hee tooke that oath, and mentioned (as is aforeſaid) in his letter to the Cardinall. Wherein he ſeeth not (as he ſaith) what iuſt offence can be taken, in that he told the Cardinall, how he had ſworne, that the Biſhop of Rome had no Imperiall and Ciuil power, to depoſe at his pleaſure the kings Maieſtie. For as he then ſware, ſo he doth now conſtantly affirme, that he holdeth the opinion before ſpoken of, concerning the Popes direct Dominion, and ſupreme authoritie ouer all the world in temperalibus, to be vntrue, notwithſtanding the peremptory reſolution, and vehemency ſhewed by the authors of it, affirming (but falſely) that it is the more common opinion of Diuines, to be held by the law of God cum recta fide, with a right faith.

35 But here it being obiected, that although the ſaid oath was framed to meete with the opinion before by him mentioned; yet that this his reſtraining of it thereunto, doeth not attaine to that, which he knew was intended by it. For in his ſaid letter to the Cardinall he doth cite ſundry authors, which ſpeake of another kinde of authoritie, aſcribed to the Pope, and tending by a nice diſtinction to this effect: that in ordine ad ſpiritualia, in order to things ſpirituall, and indirectly all kings and princes, with their kingdomes and countries, are ſubordinate, and ſubiect vnto him; inſomuch as if he ſee cauſe, and that kings and princes will not be aduiſed by him, in matters of the Church apperteining to their ſaluation, he may not onely Excommunicate them, but proceeding by degrees, depoſe them, abſolue their ſubiects from their oathes of Allegeance, and rightfully commaund them (if neede be) to beare armes againſt them: which is as lewd and traiterous an opinion, as the former, and doeth tend to the ſame end with it, though vnder diuers pretences. So as if hee tooke the oath, but with relation onely to the firſt opinion, leauing himſelfe free as touching the ſecond, it was all one, as if he had not taken it at all: and therefore being preſſed to cleare this point, he anſwereth, as hereafter followeth.

36 Firſt, he doth acknowledge the obiection to be very pertinent, and rightly collected out of his letter, confeſsing this ſecond opinion, not to come behinde the firſt, either for the earneſtneſſe of thoſe, that defend it, or for their learning and ſufficiencie, being ſuch indeede, as doe in credite farre ouerſway the eſtimation of their oppoſites. Cardinall Bellarmine himſelfe hath laboured much in it, and theſe authors following doe ioyne with him in that point, Henricus, Iohannes Driedo, Iohannes de Turre crematâ, Albertus Pighius, Thomas Waldenſis, Petrus de Palude, Cardinall Caietane, Franciſcus Victoria, Dominicus Soto, Nicolaus Sanderus: to which number this Examinate ſaith, he could adde diuers others, as Martinus Aſpilcueta, Couarruuias, &c. Of which opinion Cardinall Bellarmine ſaith, that it is communis ſententia Catholicorum Theologorum: the common opinion of Catholicke Diuines: albeit Alexander Carerius, and Rodericke Sancius doe affirme as much for the other. In this number, this Examinate confeſſeth, that he did range himſelfe in his late letter to the ſaid Cardinall, as inclining rather to his ſide, then to the other: being notwithſtanding bound to neither of them, vpon any danger of declining from the Catholicke faith. So as if now hee vſe his libertie therein as touching his Maieſtie, hee hath (as he ſuppoſeth) Cardinall Bellarmine himſelfe for his author therein.

37 For where there is this clauſe in the oath of Allegeance, I doe further ſweare, that I doe from my heart deteſt and abiure, as impious and hereticall, this damnable doctrine and poſition; that Princes which be excommunicated or depriued by the Pope, may be depoſed, or murthered by their Subiects, or any other whatſoeuer: Cardinall Bellarmine ſaith, that it was neuer heard of ab intio naſcentis Eccleſiae vſque ad haec noſtra tempora, vt vllus Pontifex Maximus Principem vllum quamuis haereticum, quamuis Ethnicum, quamuis perſecutorem caedi mandauerit: from the firſt birth of the Church, vnto theſe our times, that any Pope euer commaunded any prince, though an heretick, though an Ethnicke, though a perſecuter, to be ſlaine: And that therefore the feare which is pretended of the Kings life (if the Biſhop of Rome had the ſame authoritie in England, which hee hath in other Chriſtian kingdomes) is vaine, and that all pretences tending that way, are but ſtratagemata Satanae, the deceits of Sathan. The which affirmations of the Cardinals being true, the ſame for ought this Examinate ſeeth, doe iuſtifie the ſaid part of the oath by him taken, euen the very ſame, which of all other parts in it, is moſt miſliked by many Catholickes in England. For it muſt needs be granted generally, that were it not in reſpect of the Popes excommunication of Kings and princes, his depoſing of them from their Crownes, and his abſoluing of their ſubiects from their Allegeance, it could neuer be lawfull for any of them to riſe vp againſt their lawfull kings and Soueraignes vnder whom they were borne. And it is all one (in this Examinats iudgment) for the Pope to command a king to be murthered, as to doe, and commaund that, whereby the ſame is by others of duetie to be effected. And then it followeth out of the Cardinals words, that it can neuer be lawfull by the Popes authoritie, either direct or indirect, for any ſubiect (vpon any pretence whatſoeuer, or vnder the countenance of any authoritie, to excommunicate, and depoſe Kings, or abſolue their Subiects from their Allegeance) to lay violent hands vpon his Souereigne, which is in effect that part of the oath aboue mentioned, whereunto this Examinate did ſweare.

38 Furthermore, becauſe it was againe tolde this Examinate, that this his laſt anſwere to part of the ſaid oath, ſtood after a ſort but vpon an inference of the Cardinals meaning, and was no way ſufficient to ſatisfie the aforeſaid obiection; hee this Examinate renued his former deſire of proceeding by ſuch degrees, as hee himſelfe thought moſt fit, for the diſcharge of his duety both to God and his Maieſtie: and thereupon ſaith; that he beleeueth in his conſcience, that the Pope is S. Peters ſucceſſour, and the head of the Catholick Church: and that although materiall and worldly keyes may open and ſhut, vpon fauour and friendſhip; yet the keyes of the kingdome of heauen doe reſpect no mens perſons, be they poore or rich, noble or ignoble, high or low, kings or ſubiects: ſo as in his iudgement none may be exempted from the Popes Excommunication, when there is iuſt cauſe (vpon due conſideration of all circumſtances) to inflict it: adding thereunto, that hee holdeth it to be the duety of all Chriſtian kings and princes, to ſubmit themſelues in cauſes of religion to the Biſhop of Rome, as vnto their chiefe Biſhop and Paſtor of their ſoules. Which profeſsion thus made, this Examinate deſired, that one point in his former Examination publiſhed in print, might here be receiued, as part of his anſwere to the obiection aboue ſpecified. Sect. 16.

39 For there this Examinat (as he truly ſaith) M Blakwels Exam. pag. 18, 19. Being vrged to explicate himſelfe, touching the ſence he relied vpon, out of his Maieſties words, when he took the oth of Allegeance, in that it was ſaid, hee might ſo vnderſtand them, as not withſtanding his oath, that dutie which was expected, was no way ſatisfied: becauſe his Maieſties meaning was euident, that hee did account it to proceed from appetite and raſhneſſe in any of the Biſhops of Rome whoſoeuer, who preſuming to Excommunicate any King, ſhould by the ſame either abſolue his Subiects from their obedience, or excite them to beare Armes againſt him, or authorize them to lay violent hands vpon his perſon, or to ſtirre vp any ſedition or tumult within his Kingdom, or to aſsiſt any that ſhould make ſuch attempts either againſt the King, or the State of the Kingdome: he this Examinate anſwereth now, as he anſwered then for the further opening of his meaning, ſaying, his iudgement is, that no lawfull Excommunication (termed either Excommunicatio maior, the greater Excommunication, or Eccleſiaſticall curſe of Anathematization) can produce ſuch effects, or ought to enforce the ſame; and that hee agreeth therein with many ſound Catholike writers (as he thinketh) and particularly with theſe following: and ſo drawing out his pocket-notes (as oft, vpon ſundry occaſions he did) hee cauſed their words to bee ſet downe for the better declaration of his duetie. Excommunicatio non niſi excommunicatum facere poteſt, ea que fulminatur in Principes, non vt tyranni fiant, ne que vt ſuis ditionibus remoueantur, ne que vt ſubiectis laxentur habene, vel juratâ fide liberentur: That is, An Excommunication can but make a man Excommunicate: and it is thundred againſt Princes, not to the end, that they ſhould thereby become tyrants, or bee remooued from their Dominions, or that the ruines ſhould be looſed vnto Subiects or they bee freed from the oath of their fidelitie. Ludou, Richeome in Apologet. pa 175. And againe Soto Medina in primam ſecundae pag. 513. q 96. art. 4. ſaith, as Medina doeth alleadge him; Quod Excommunicatio non eſt priuatio alicuius boni proprij, quod tranſgreſſor legis prius poſseder at: ſed eſt priuatio bonorum communium, quae ab Eccleſia crat percepturus, vt communionis ſpiritualis, & receptionis Sacramentorum: That is, Excommunication is not the priuation of any proper or peculiar good, whereof the tranſgreſſor of the law was formerly poſseſsèd: but of thoſe common benefits, which hee ſhould haue reaped from the Church, as of the ſpirituall Communion, and receiuing of the Sacraments. And S. Thomas ſaith: Tho. Aquin. ſecunda ſecuudae. q. 11. art. 3. Aliud eſt Excommunicatio, & aliud Eradicatio: Excommunication is one thing, and Eradication another: which is ſet downe in the Canon Law of an Epiſtle of Pope Vrbane, where it is ſaid: Liquidò apparet, aliud eſſe excommunicationem, aliud eradicationem. Qui enim excommunicatur (vt Apoſtolus Decret. 2. parte cauſ. 24. q. 3. cap. 37. ait) ad hoc excommunicatur, vt ſpiritus eius ſalnus fiat in die Domini. Diſciplina enim eſt Excommunicatio, & non eradicatio. That is; It doeth plainely appeare, that Excommunication is one thing, and Eradication another. For he which is Excommunicated, is (as the Apoſtle ſaith) to this end Excommunicated, that his ſoule may bee ſaued in the day of the Lord. For Excommunication is a correction, and not an extirpation. So as this Examinate here ſaith, that for as much as hee hath before acknowledged, that the Kingdome of England, is no part of the Popes poſſeſsions, nor any more ſubiect vnto him, then other Chriſtian Kingdomes are: that the Pope hath no Imperiall or Ciuill authoritie to depoſe his Maieſtie: and that the Popes Excommunication (which is the chiefe cenſure of his ſpirituall authoritie) can bring foorth no ſuch effects, as are ſuppoſed in the ſaid oath of Alleageance, viz. neither depoſition, eradication, abſolution of Subiects from their obedience, nor any ſufficient warant either to rebel, or to lay violent hands vpon any King: he this Examinat is perſwaded, that litle more can bee required at his hands, in anſwere of the ſaid maine obiection, touching the ſenſe of that oath, according to the effect of his Maieſties ſpeeches, inſinuated (as is aboue ſaid) by him this Examinate vnto the Cardinall.

40 Before the further preſsing of the inſufficiencie of all that hitherto he hath ſaide for the clearing of the ſaid obiection, Sect. 35. for as much as in his laſt ſpeeches, touching Excommunication, hee ſaid that Excommunication could bring forth no ſuch fruits as he there recited: it was demanded of him, how that his aſſertion could agree with theſe points of Popiſh doctrine, publiſhed by a claſsicall author of the Romiſh ſect; where hee laboureth to prooue by ſundry reaſons, that Henry. 3. being king of France ſtood diuerſe yeeres excommunicated, before he was murthered, as hauing committed many offences, which were ſubiect ipſo iure to diuerſe Excommunications, as namely that of the Bull Coenae Dominicae: ſome of which faults he ſetteth downe to be theſe following: ſhewing the ſaide king to haue bene excommunicated ipſo facto, for De Iuſta abdic, Hen. 3. l. 2. cap. 35. euery one of them: for example, 1. quod haereticis fauebat. 2. quod 8imoniacus. 3. quod cum haereticis (Reginâ Angliae & Nauarro) foedus inierat. 4. quod bona Eccleſiae, Pontifice inconſulto, occupauerat, &c. 1. for that hee was a fauourer of hereticks. 2. for that he was a Simoniſt. 3. for that he had entered into league with hereticks, (the Queene of England, and the Nauarrian.) 4. for that without the Popes priuitie he had ſeized the poſſeſsions of the Church. Whereupon after many other diſcourſes and allegations of Scriptures, fathers, hiſtories, and what not, he falleth vpon this concluſion, that the ſaid king was lawfully murthered, before any Excommunication of him was publiſhed, ſaying, Non percipit formulam publicus Ibid. lib. 4. c. 2. dolor: Common griefe is not capable of forme. And that albeit in occulto crimine in a hidden crime no man ought to bee condemned indictâ cauſâ, or before he be cited and called: yet in publique and notorious crimes, ſuch as by no tergiuerſation can be hid, Euidens notitia facti ſ • ntentiae Idem ibidem. locum tenet: Euident notice of the fact is in place of a Sentence. All which particulars doe croſſe this Examinates former opinion, how excommunication had no power to depriue any King from his kingdome, and could much leſſe giue authoritie to murther him.

41 Whereunto this Examinate anſwereth, that what priuate men write, ought neither to be imputed to the doctrine of the Catholique Church, nor to any other mans preiudice, who is of another iudgment: and yet he ſaith, that theſe points propounded out of the ſaid author are ſo farre out of ioint and ſo intolerable, as he holdeth them in his iudgement to be moſt falſe, and dangerous, not onely to all proteſtant Kings and princes, but in like manner to thoſe that are Catholiques. For (ſaith he) if all of them may bee ſo dealt with by their ſubiects, who ſtand excommunicated ipſoiure, by many excommunications, but eſpecially by the Bull Coenae Doviinicae, hee knoweth no king liuing, who may be ſecure, either of his kingdome, or of his life

42 It being here againe obiected vnto this Examinate, that becauſe it is apparant, that all Kings and Princes who haue reiected the Popes ſupremacie, though otherwiſe they embrace the Goſpel, are generally accounted by all Romiſh Catholickes to be heretickes: he this Examinate muſt, in the duety of his Allegeance, neceſſarily anſwere, concerning the poſitions following, whether he doeth allow them, or diſallow them; the ſame being the effects of the Popes Excommunications, euen ante Sententiam latam, before Sentence denounced, which are likewiſe contrary to his former iudgement

43 The Canon Lawes (ſayth no meane man) Card. Allen againſt the execution of Iuſtice. pa. 87. being authenticall in the lawfull tribunals of the Chriſtian world doe make all heretikes (not onely after they bee namely and particularly denounced, but by the Law it ſelfe ipſo facto, as ſoone as they bee heretikes, or de iure, excommunicated for the ſame) to bee depriued of their Dominions. And another of little leſſe credit then the former, writeth thus: Hinc inferatur, Philop. pag. 194. vniuerſa Theologorum at Iuriſconſultorum Eccleſiaſticorum Schola, & est certum, & de fide, quamcun que Principem Chriſtianum, ſi a Religione Catholicâ manefeſtè deflexerit, & alios auocare voluerit, excidere ſtatim omni potestate ac dignitate, ex ipſâ vi iuris, tum humani, tum diuini, hoc que ante omnem ſententiam Supremi Pastoris ac Iudicis contra ipſos prolatam; & ſubditos quoſcun que liberos eſse ab omni iuramenti obligatione, quodei de obedientia, tanquam Principi legitimo, praestitiſſent: poſse que & debere (ſtvires habeant) iſtiuſmodi hominem, tanquam Apostatam, haereticum, ac Christi Domini deſertorem & reipub. inimicum, heſtem que , ex hominum Chriſtianorum dominatu oijcere, ne alios inficiat, vel ſuo exemplo, aut imperio à fide auertat. Atque haec certa, definita, & indubitata virorum doctiſsimorum ſententia doctrinae Apoſtolicae conformis planè ac conſona eſt: That is; Hereupon the whole Schoole of Diuines and Canoniſts doth inferre, and it is certaine, and of faith: that any Chriſtian Prince whatſoeuer, if hee ſhall manifeſtly deflect from the Catholicke Religion, and endeuour to withdraw others from the ſame, doeth preſently fall from all power and dignitie, by the very force of humane and diuine law; and that alſo before any Sentence of the Supreme Paſtour and Iudge againſt him denounced: and that his ſubiect: whatſoeuer are free from all obligation of that oath, which they had performed for their allegeance vnto him, as to their lawfull Prince: and that they may and ought (if they haue forces) to eiect ſuch a man as an Apoſtata, an hereticke, and a backſlider from the Lord Chriſt, and an enemy to the Common wealth, out of all dominion ouer Chriſtians, leſt hee infect others, or by his example, or commandements auert others from the faith. And this certaine, definite, and vndoubted opinion of the beſt learned men, is wholy agreeable and conſonant to the Apoſtolicall doctrine. And to this purpoſe diuers others of the ſame humour might be alledged.

44 Whereupon this Examinate at the laſt (though he was hardly drawen vnto it, in reſpect of the perſons, whoſe wordes were cited, much honoured and reuerenced by him) did giue this anſwere, ſaying in effect, as he did concerning the authors whoſe aſſertions were propounded vnto him in the next precedent obiection, viz. That theſe men had their particular opinions, as hee hath his; but confeſſeth that theſe their aſſertions laſt mentioned are farre from his iudgement, vtterly denying them to bee the inferences of the ſchoole of all Diuines, and Eccleſiaſticall Lawyeers, or that they are either de fide of faith, or certaine, or defined, or the vndoubted opinions of the moſt learned men, agreeable to the doctrine of the Apoſtles. Beſides, whatſoeuer this Examinate hath formerly ſaid touching his reaſons ſent to Rome, or out of Sylueſter, or touching the preſent eſtate of this Kingdome, or his former iudgement, that an Excommunication cannot warrant any ſuch kinde of proceedings of ſubiects againſt their Princes (be they Hereticks or Apoſtates, or whatſoeuer they be) doth iuſtle directly with theſe aſſertions: and therefore hee ſaith, that hee doth vtterly reiect them, accounting them great ſtaines and blemiſhes vnto Excommunication, if they bee made the effectes thereof.

45 Here it falling out aptly to come to the point indeed (mentioned Sect. 35.) the ſame was preſſed. For whereas it is cleare by this Examinates confeſsion, that they of the Romiſh church haue not onely amongſt them Excommunication of Princes, but likewiſe (as hee hath before ſhewed out of certaine their authenticall writers) an Eradication and vtter extirpation, which muſt (as it appeareth) be effected not by Excommunication, but by vertue of the Popes authority, either as he is directly Dominus Temporalium, that is, the chiefe Temporall Lord vnder Chriſt ouer all the world, or indirectly, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, in order to things ſpirituall: foraſmuch as both of them doe tend to one end, and are equally pernicious and trayterous to all Regall Principalitie and authoritie; it being litle to the purpoſe to detract from Excommunication, that it hath no power to depoſe kings, or to abſolue their ſubiects from their Allegeance, if there be left in the Pope another kinde of power, after that by his Excommunication he hath caſt kings to the deuill (in his owne idle conceit) then to eradicate them likewiſe and throw them out of their kingdomes, and to authorize and incite their ſubiects to all ſecret conſpiracies, treaſons, rebellions and trecheries againſt their Soueraignes: this Examinate was heere againe vrged vpon his allegeance to his Maieſtie, and as there was any trueth to bee expected at his hands, to ſet downe his iudgement, touching this point of the Popes pretended Soueraigne power in Temporalibus, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, in order to things ſpirituall, as he hath done before, concerning the other pretence of his direct authoritie.

46 With this point this Examinate (as it ſeemed) being much perplexed ſaid, that now indeed the matter was followed to the quicke: and therefore deſired that it might be ſufficient for him to acknowledge, that in his iudgement the Pope hath authoritie to Excommunicate (when there is cauſe) the greateſt King in the world, profeſing Chriſtianitie; but (ſayth hee) for his other power, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, in order to things ſpirituall, it cannot touch his Maieſtie.

47 Hereupon, for that this Examinate had often before deſired, that hee might ſpeake of things by degrees & not in groſſe, it was thought fit to proceed herein with him accordingly. And therefore hee was firſt put in minde, what he had before ſaid in the beginning of this his Examination, concerning his iudgement of the obedience due to princes by the precepts of Chriſt and his Apoſtles, Sect. 2: of the continuance of the ſaid precepts: of his diſlike, that any ſhould imagine, either Chriſt or his Apoſtles in their ſaid precepts to haue temporized, as willing Chriſtians, then liuing vnder perſecuting Emperours, to obey no longer, but vntill they were able by force to ſuppreſſe them, Sect. 3 (and ſo as aboue more at large it doth appeare:) and being thereupon demaunded, whether hee continued ſtill in the ſame iudgement, without any equiuocation or euaſion whatſoeuer; he thereunto anſwering reſolutely, that he did; and that in ſo affirming, hee deliuered his conſcience clearely as in the ſight of God: he was required, for the better aſſurance to be giuen thereof, to ſignifie his iudgement ſincerely and truely, what hee thinketh of the aſſertions following, which doe thwart directly his iudgement, ſo ſetled as he hath profeſſed, touching the firſt 300. yeeres after Chriſt.

48 Nos illa non mouent, quòd Martyres dicuntur De abdic. Hen. 3. lib. 1. cap. 3. mortem tolerâſſe, & vt Tyrannos Eccleſiae infeſtos deponerent, minimè ſategiſſe. Quia vt laudabile eſt, cùm reſiſtere nequeas, ita vbi poſsis reſiſtere religionis ac patriae boſti, nolle, nefarium & pernicioſum eſt. That is, Thoſe things mooue vs not, that Martyrs are ſayd to haue endured death, and not endeuoured any wayes to depoſe Tyrants, being enemies to the Church. For, as not to reſiſt the enemie of your religion and countrey, when you are not able, is commendable: ſo when you are able, not to do it, is wicked, and pernicious.

The holy Biſhops might moſt lawfully haue excommunicated Allen defence against the Iust. of England. cap. 5. pag. 107. the Arrian Emperours, and haue warranted their Catholick ſubiects to haue defended themſelues by armes againſt them; but they did not ſo, by reaſon of greater forces of the perſecutors.

Moreouer, there is no queſtion, but the Emperours Idem ibidem. Conſtantius, Valens, Iulian, and others, might haue beene, by the Biſhops excommunicated, depoſed, and all their people releaſed from their obedience; if the Church, or Catholickes had had competent forces to haue reſiſted.

And to the purpoſe laſt mentioned: Quòd ſi Chriſtiani olim non depoſuerunt Neronem, & Diocletianum, Bellar. de Rom. Pontif. lib. 5. cap. 7. & Iulianū Apoſtatam, at que Valentem Arrianum, & ſimiles, id fuit, quia deerant vires tēporales Chriſtianis. Nam alioqui jure poterant id facere. That is, If the Chriſtians of ancient times did not depoſe Nero, and Diocletian, and Iulian the Apoſtata, and Valens the Arrian, and ſuch like, it was, becauſe temporal forces were then wanting to the Chriſtians; for otherwiſe they might lawfully haue done it.

49 To theſe Aſſertions (being thus preſſed vpon him) after ſundry tergiuerſations, in reſpect of the dignitie of the perſons, whoſe words were before mentioned, and of the diſcredit and danger he ſhould caſt himſelfe into, by intermedling with their opinions; yet in regard of his duetie to God, to his Maieſtie, and to the trueth, (ſo farre as he is able to diſcerne it) at the laſt he anſwereth: that howſoeuer the ſaid aſſertions may be politicall, yet ſurely in his iudgement they are not Theologicall: that hee wondreth how it commeth to paſſe, that theſe and the like ſayings are ſo frequent of late dayes in many writers, conſidering that neither in the bookes of godly martyrs, during the firſt 300. yeeres after Chriſt, nor in the writings of the moſt principall ancient fathers, for many yeeres after, there is ſo much as a ſyllable (to this Examinates remembrance) that tendeth that way.

50 Beſides, hee ſaith, that if theſe conceits ſhould grow to be in credit, the reputation of the Apoſtles muſt needes decreaſe, as hauing bene in their times but Temporizers; which M. Blackwood, a ſound Catholicke, doth collect out of certaine words of Buchanans, tending in effect to the ſame purpoſe with the former aſſertions: where ſhewing, that the Chriſtians in Tertullians time (notwithſtanding they had ſufficient forces) did not thinke it lawfull to beare armes againſt their Emperors (as aboue this Examinate hath ſaid) he the ſaid M. Blackwood writeth in this ſort: Blackuodei Apolog. pro Regibus. pag. 259. Paulus vtendum foro praecepit? Larurtam hypocriſn, ſub perſonâ religionis, latêre voluit? Poteſtatibus obedientiam edixit, quia reſiſti non poſset? Chriſtianos viribus auctos, ad armaceſsantes, ad arma concitat, Imperium que franget? That is, Did Paul commaund men to temporize? Was it his meaning, that masked hypocriſie ſhould lurke vnder the ſemblance of religion? Did hee iniayne them obedience to higher powers, becauſe they could not reſiſt? Did he excite Chriſtians, being once increaſed in ſtrength to take armes, and ouerthrow the Empire? And a little after, he ſheweth out of Clemens, Peters diſciple, ſpeaking of the great tumult that Caiphas made in Ieruſalem, that the Chriſtians, etſi numero plures, virtute potiores, propter Numinis obedientiam, occidi maluiſſe quàm occidere: though more in number, and mightier in power, yet for their obedience to God, they choſe rather to be killed then to kill: and thereupon doth deſcribe the duety of ſubiects, and the armour of Chriſtians, which are prayers and teares.

51 Moreouer, this Examinate doubteth not (as he ſaith) but that the Biſhops of Rome in Tertullians time, and afterwards, were as godly and zealous Popes, as any haue liued ſince; that they very well knew, what authority did belong vnto them: and that if the aforeſaid aſſertions had bene good Diuinitie then, conſidering the numbers, force and abilitie of Chriſtians in thoſe dayes, the ſaid Popes out of queſtion would haue left ſome monument of their zeale, in the execution of their authority and of the Chriſtians readineſſe (hauing force) to reſiſt their Emperors; whereas none ſuch indeed are to bee found For theſe and many other ſuch reaſons, as might bee brought for this purpoſe, this Examinate ſaith, that he doth wholy diſallow the ſaid aſſertions, propounded vnto him as tentations to try him: and that therefore he doth reſt in the iudgement before by him ſet downe, without all kinde of euaſions and equiuocations whatſoeuer, profeſſing, that if he could ſet downe his minde more plainely herein, he would haue bene very willing thereunto.

52 Againe this Examinate being required, that becauſe he had formerly inuolued himſelfe into ſundry difficulties, to the diſtaſte of his Maieſtie and the State, by ſome his intricate, and vncertaine anſweres heretofore made, he ſhould to the point now propounded vnto him, anſwere directly, and vpon his learning, credit, and reputation: he ſaith, that indeede hee doth not remember that euer any Pope vntill Gregorie the ſeuenth, did adde to Excommunication any clauſe of their authoritie to depoſe Emperors, or kings, or to abſolue their ſubiects from their allegeance, or to commaund them vnder paine of Excommunication to beare armes againſt them; and D. Thomas handling this point, doth onely relie Tho Aquin. 2 • . 2 • quaest. 12. art. 2. therein vpon Gregorie the ſeuenth. Alſo he confeſſeth, that when Gregorie ſo dealt with the Emperour, there was great diſlike and repining at it, as it may appeare by Otho Friſingenſis and Sigebertus; Otho Friſing. lib. 6 cap. 35. whom he would not haue named (hee ſaith) becauſe Baronius hath laid a touch vpon them of Schiſme (as rather enclining to the Emperours, then to the Popes, when there was diſſention betwixt Idem de gestu Frid. lib. 1. cap. 1. Sigebert. in Anno 1088. them) had it not bene, that Vincentius in his Historiale had teſtified as much: where hauing ſpoken of the abuſe of the keyes, he ſayth, (with relation to Gregorie, and his next Succeſſour but one, Vrbanus,) Vt pace omnium bonorum dixerim, haec Vincent. in ſpec. Histor. lib. 15 cap. 84. ſola nouitas (ne dicam haereſis) necdum è mundo emerſerat, vt Sacerdotes eius, qui dicit Regi, Apoſtata, & qui regnare facit hypocritam, propter peccata populi, doceant populum, quòd malis Regibus nullam debeant ſubiectionem; & licet ei ſacramentum fidelitatis fecerant, nullam tamen debeant fidelitatem, nec periuri dicantur, qui contra Regem ſenſerint, imò, qui Regi paruerit pro Excommunicato habeatur, qui contra Regem fecerit, à noxâ iniuſtitiae periurij abſoluatur. That is, That I may ſpeake it with the fauour of all good men; this meere noueltie (that I ſay not Hereſie,) was not as yet ſprung vp in the world, that his Prieſts, who ſaith vnto the king, Apoſtata, and who maketh the Hypocrite to reigne for the ſinnes of the people, ſhould teach ſubiects, that they owe no ſubiection vnto wicked kings; that albeit they haue taken an oath of fidelity vnto ſuch a one, yet they are not bound in allegeance vnto him; and that ſuch as ſhall take part againſt their king, may not be ſayd to be periured: nay, that they who performe obedience vnto him, are to be held as excommunicated: and ſuch as rebell againſt him, are to be acquited from all guilt of the crime of periurie. Which report & teſtimony made by ſo worthy a Biſhop aboue 350. yeeres ſince, this Examinate ſaith, hee may not impugne or diſlike, though Vincentius receiueth it from Sigebert; this Examinate no way approouing the diſcrediting of ancient Catholicke writers, vnder pretence of their fauour towards this Emperor or that Emperor; becauſe it giueth occaſion to ſome, to empeach many other worthy mens writings in like ſort, vpon colour of their partialitie towards the Biſhop of Rome. Beſides, it is apparant, that ſome of the beſt and moſt ſincere Catholicks were much troubled with that fact of Gregorie, there being then many, who plainely denied, that the Apoſtolicall See had authoritie to depoſe (as he did) Henry the Emperor, and to abſolue his ſubiects from their oath of fidelitie vnto him: in ſo much as the Biſhop of Metz writ Gregorie 7. Epist. 21. lib. 8. apud Seuerinum de Concilijs. vnto Gregorie, deſiring him (being in great fauour with him) to aſsiſt and arme him with his reaſons of ſuch his proceedings with the Emperour, that he might be the better able thereby to withſtand thoſe, that ſpake againſt them.

53 Furthermore this Examinate (the premiſſes conſidered) being againe mooued, for the full clearing of his ſinceritie, to deliuer his minde concerning the point, which he ſaid touched the quicke, Sect 45. viz. of the Popes ſo great an authoritie in temporalibus, in temporalties, as that he may, by any diſtinction whatſoeuer, deale with Emperors or kings, as is aforeſaid: he deſiring Sect. 35. & 45. to ſee one of Cardinall Bellarmines bookes de Romano Pontifice, did deliuer out of him, his this Examinates iudgement, ſaying that he was verily perſwaded, as followeth, viz.

That the Pope is not Lord of thoſe poſſeſsions which Bell. de Rom. Pontif. lib. 5. cap. 2. Infidels hold: that Infidell Princes, are the true and ſupreme princes of their owne Kingdoms: that dominion is not founded in grace, or in faith: that S. Paul doeth bid vs to obey Ethnick Princes, for conſcience ſake: that wee were not bound to obey ſuch Princes, if they were not true Princes: that Princes are not the Popes vicars: that the Pope would willingly, if hee could, giue the Kingdomes of Infidels vnto faithfull Princes: that it is a ridiculous conceit, to imagine, that God hath giuen to the Pope a right ouer all the kingdomes of the world, and not to haue giuen him at any time a faculty of vſing ſuch a right: that Alexander 6. did not diuide the late new found world vnto the kings of Spaine and Portugall, to that end that they ſhould haue gone thither, to haue ſubdued the Infidell kings of that new World, or to haue taken to themſelues their kingdomes; but onely that they ſhould haue procured preachers of Chriſtian faith, to haue been ſent thither, and to haue protected and defended both thoſe preachers, and the Chriſtians conuerted by them; and that withall hee the ſaid Alexander might preuent, the contentions and warres of other Chriſtian princes, who would haue vſed traffique in thoſe new regions.

54 That the Pope is not lord of the whole Chriſtian Bell. ibidem cap. 3. world: that if hee were the lord of the whole Chriſtian world iure diuino, the ſame would appeare in the Scriptures, or by ſome Apoſtolicall tradition: that in the Scriptures there is nothing, but that the keyes of the kingdome of heauen are giuen to the Pope, without any mention of the keyes of the kingdome of the world: that none doeth pretend any Apoſtolicall tradition to that purpoſe: that Chriſt neither did, nor doeth take kingdoms from thoſe, to whom they doe appertaine: that Chriſt came not to deſtroy thoſe things that were well ſetled, but to make them more perfect: that when the king becommeth a Chriſtian, he doeth not loſe his earthly kingdome, which by law he had before, but obtaineth thereby a new intereſt to the kingdome of heauen; otherwiſe the benefite of Chriſt ſhould be hurtfull to kings, and grace ſhould deſtroy nature: that it is no true aſſertion, to ſay that the Pope hath both powers, but comitteth the execution of one of them vnto others: that what authoritie ſoeuer the Emperours haue, they haue it from Chriſt: that if the Pope, as being the ſupreme King and Emperour, might take from kings the execution of their regall authoritie, hee were greater then Chriſt: that although Innocentius doeth compare the Pope to the Sunne, and the Emperour to the Moone, yet it is to be obſerued, that the Sunne and the Moone are not one Starre; that as the Sunne doeth not make the Moone, but God; ſo the Popedome and the Empire are not one, nor doe depend the one vpon the other: that although the Pope alone, hath full authoritie in the temporalties belonging to the Patrimonie of the Church, yet in other Regions he hath not ſo.

55 That the Pope iure diuino, by the diuine Law Idem ibidem cap. 4. hath no temporall dominion directly of any one place: that Chriſt as he was man, whiles hee liued vpon the earth, did not, nor would receiue any temporall dominion: that the Pope is Chriſts vicar, and doeth repreſent him vnto vs, as he liued here amongſt men: that therefore, as he is Chriſts vicar and the higheſt Biſhop, hee hath no temporall dominion: that it proceedeth from a falſe principle to ſay, that the Pope, who is Chriſts vicar, is both a temporall king and a Prieſt: that Chriſt was alwayes the ſonne of God, the king and Lord of all creatures, as God the Father is; but this kingdome is eternall and diuine, and doeth not take away the Dominions of men, nor agreeth to the Pope: that Chriſt as man, is the ſpirituall king of all men, and hath a moſt ample ſpirituall power ouer all, as well faithfull as Infidels: that this ſpirituall kingdome of Chriſt, after the day of Iudgment, ſhall be ſenſible and manifeſt; and that the glory of this kingdome was begun in Chriſt our head, quando à mortuis reſurrexit, when hee aroſe from the dead: that this Spirituall kingdome is not a temporall Kingdome, ſuch as kings enioy, nor can be communicated to the Pope, becauſe this ſpirituall kingdome, preſuppoſeth the reſurrection: that Christ as man, might if he would, or had thought it expedient, haue taken to himſelfe a Regall authoritie, but hee would not; and therefore did neither receiue, nor had either the execution or authoritie or power of any temporall Dominion, or kingdome: that all kingdomes are gotten, either by ſucceſsion, or by election, or by the ſword, or by gift; but Chriſt had no temporall kingdome by any of theſe meanes: that Christ did neuer execute any Regall authoritie in the world: that Christ came to miniſter, not to be miniſtred vnto, to bee iudged, not to iudge: that hee ſhould haue receiued ſuch a Regall authoritie in vaine, hauing neuer any vſe of it: it being a vaine power, quae nunquam redigitur in actum, which is neuer brought into act: that Christ did not caſt out of the Temple the buyers and ſellers of Oxen and Sheepe, by any Pontificall or Regall power, ſed more Prophetarum, zelo quodam diuino: but after the maner of the Prophets by a certaine diuine zeale: that kingly authoritie was not neceſſarie for Chriſt, nor profitable, but plainely ſuperfluous and vnprofitable: that the ende of Christs comming into the world, was the redemption of mankind, to which end, ſpirituall power was onely neceſſarie, and not temporall that that power meerely temporall was vnprofitable for Chriſt, is apparant, becauſe he was to perſwade men to contempt of glory, delicacies, riches, and of all temporall things, wherewith kings of this world doe moſt abound: that all the places almoſt of Scriptures, which ſpeake of the kingdome of Chriſt, muſt needes be vnderſtood of his ſpirituall and eternall kingdome, but temporall kingdomes are not eternall: that Chriſt was not a temporall king of the Iewes, but a ſpirituall king of the Church: that although the Pope is ſaid to haue that office, which Christ himſelfe enioyed, when he was among men; yet thoſe offices cannot be aſcribed to the Pope, which Chriſt had, as God, or as hee is now an immortall and glorious man, but onely thoſe (and yet not all of them) which he held as a mortall man: that Chriſt, becauſe he was God and man, habuit quandam poteſtatē, quam dicunt excellentiae; had a certaine power of excellencie (as they call it) whereby he gouerned both faithfull and Infidels, whereas hee committed his ſheepe onely, that is, the faithfull, to the Pope: that Christ, as hee was man, had power to inſtitute Sacraments, and worke miracles by his owne authoritie; which power the Pope hath not: that Christ could abſolue men from their ſinnes without Sacraments, which the Pope cannot doe: that Chriſt doeth communicate that power to the Pope, which might bee communicated puro homini, to a meere man; which was neceſſarie for the gouernement of the faithfull, ſo as without impediment, they might obtaine the kingdome of heauen.

56 That theſe places and authorities: Data eſt Idem ibidem cap. 5. mihi omnis poteſtas in coelo & in terrâ, Matth. 8. All power is giuen vnto me in heauen and earth. Chriſtus beato Petro vitae aeternae clauigero, terreni ſimul, & coeleſtis Imperij iura commiſit: Chriſt committed to S. Peter the key-carier of eternall life, the Nicol. Pap. epist. ad Michael. rights, both of the terrene and celeſtiall Empire: Ecce duo gladij, Luc. 22. Beholde here are two ſwords, doe no way preiudice the former doctrine: that the Popes power to decide temporall ſuits and queſtions, Can. cauſ. 11. quaeſt. 1. Quicunque litem, was granted vnto him by Theodoſius, ex pietate, non ex debito, of deuotion not of duetie: that Chriſt, for the preſeruation of humilitie, ordeined, that the Pope ſhould haue need of the Emperours defence in temporalibus, Idem ibidem cap. 10. and that the Emperour alſo ſhould need the Popes direction in ſpiritualibus, and that therefore he left the Empire to Tiberius, and beſtowed the Popedome vpon Peter.

57 That as touching the temporall principalities Idem ibidem cap. 9. (which they haue indeed) the ſame were giuen to the Biſhops of Rome, and other Biſhops, by godly men, ſuch as Conſtantine, Charles the great, and Lewis his ſonne, were: that although it were peraduenture abſolutely better, that the Biſhops of Rome ſhould onely intermeddle with ſpirituall matters, and kings with temporall; yet through the malice of time, experience teacheth it to be both profitable and neceſſarie, that as in the old Teſtament, the high Prieſts were long ſine Imperio temporali, without a temporal gouernment, and yet in thoſe laſt times religion could not haue conſiſted and bene defended, except the high Prieſts had bin likewiſe kings, as in the time of the Maccabees; euen ſo it hath come to paſſe with the Church, that ſhe, who in the beginning did need no temporall principalitie, doth now ſeeme to haue need thereof neceſſarily.

58 All the premiſſes being in this maner alledged out of Bellarmine, in effect word for word, by this Examinate, it was told him, that except he could be content, to open and enlarge himſelfe further then after this ſort, foraſmuch as Bellarmine (notwithſtanding all that this Examinate hath repeated out of him, for the expreſsing of his owne iudgement) doeth afterward clearely attribute ſuch an indirect powre to the Pope ordine adſpiritualia, in order to things ſpirituall, as doth giue him authority, when he thinketh fit, to deale with Emperours and Kings, as if all the world were at his commandement (directly or indirectly it forceth not) for the eradicating of them, depoſing of them, abſoluing their ſubiects from their obedience, and plotting againſt them by his firebrands and Aſſaſsins, as times and places may ſerue his turne (as it hath beene touched Sect. 35. and 45:) hee this Examinate ſhould leaue the matter worſe then when hee began, and ſhew moſt manifeſtly, that when he tooke the oath of Alleageance, hee did dally and diſſemble aboue meaſure, otherwiſe then became any dutiful ſubiect liuing, in a caſe ſo neerely concerning his Maieſty, and the State of the Kingdome.

59 Vnto this point this Examinate for his anſwere ſaith, that he maketh no doubt, but that he hath ſufficiently ſo opened his minde, and enlarged himſelfe, as that there can bee no queſtion of his ſincericie toward his Maieſtie; in that hee hath twice, Sect. 4. & 47. ſhewed his iudgement, touching the practiſe of the primitiue Church, for the firſt three hundred yeres after Chriſt; likewiſe his vtter diſlike of ſundry aſſertions propounded vnto him, Sect. 49; ſome whereof maintaine, contrary to Tertullians relation (how Chriſtians ſtood then affected) that in thoſe dayes, armes might lawfully haue beene borne againſt the Emperours, if the profeſſors of the Name of Chriſt had beene able: and ſome, as touching ſundry other vnſound and vncatholike matters in them contained, concerning the loſſe of Kingdomes, &c. vpon excommunications, Sect. 39; and alſo his opinion of the time, when the depoſing of Kings and abſoluing their ſubiects from their alleageance were firſt made adiuncts to excommunication for ought he hath read, Sect. 52. But yet he is contented, as he ſaith, a little further to enlarge himſelfe, according to the motion propounded, and to that end affirmeth, that hee doeth concurre in iudgement with theſe authors following; and ſo out of his pocket-notes ſet downe their words in this maner:

60 Apostoli nihil vi gerebant, tantùm vtebantur gladio ſpiritus: neminem agebant in exilium; nullius inuadebant facultates Haec omnie Eraſmus non minùs diſertè, quàm verè: That is, The Apostles did nothing by force, they onely vſed the ſword of the ſpirit; they draue no man into exile; they entered vpon no mans poſſeſsions. All this, ſaith Eraſmus, no leſse elegantly, then truely, Coſterus in fidei demonſtrat. pag. 96.

Si aliqui Reges cum populo ſe tradiderunt Romanis Pontificibus, vt traditur de Anglis, nihil ad nos. Non tamen opinor, quòd Angli vllo modo permitterent, Pontificem deſtituere ſuum Regem, & alium conſtituere: nunquam enim aliquem Romanorum Pontificum hoc facere permiſerunt: That is, If any Kings with their people haue ſubiected themſelues to the Biſhoppes of Rome, as it is reported of the Engliſh, (but vntruely, as this Examinate hath before ſhewed) that toucheth not vs. And yet I doe not thinke, that the Engliſh would by any meanes permit the Pope to depoſe their King, and conſtitute another: for they neuer ſuffered any of the Biſhops of Rome, ſo to doe. Iohan. Maior in 4. Sentent. diſtinct. 24. quaeſt. 3.

De ratione poteſtatis laicae eſt, poenam ciuilem poſse infligere, vt ſunt mors, exilium, bonorum priuatio, &c. ſed nullam talem poenam, ex inſtitutione diuiná, infligere poteſt Eccleſiaſtica potestas: imò nec incarcerare, vt plaeriſ que doctoribus placet, ſed ad ſolam poenam ſpiritualem extenditur, vtpotè excommunicationem. Reliquae autem poenae quibus vtitur, ex iure purè poſitiuo ſunt: That is, It is of the nature of lay power, to bee able to inflict ciuill puniſhments as are death, exile, loſſe of goods, &c. but the Eccleſiasticall power cannot by the diuine ordinance, impoſe any ſuch puniſhment: nay not impriſon, as the most Doctors doe hold; but is extended to ſpirituall puniſhment alone, as Excommunication. The other puniſhments which it vſeth, are meerely out of poſitiue Law. Iacobus. Almain. de Dominio naturali & ciuili, in vltima editione Gerſonis. pag. 696.

61. Here this Examinat being tolde, that although he hath to ſome good purpoſe repeated, what he had formerly ſaid, and a litle more enlarged himſelfe then before; in that hee hath acknowledged, that what the Pope can doe, more then Excommunicate, he hath it ex iure purè poſitiuo, meerely by poſitiue Law: yet conſidering, that he made no ſcruple, to ſhew his diſlike of the opiniō, touching the Popes pretended authoritie in temporalibus directly, in the 20. Sect: but ſeemed loath to deliuer his iudgement, concerning the other opinion of the Popes authoritie in Temporalibus in ordine ad Spiritualia, indirectly in order to things ſpiritual; it was further vrged againſt him, that if he be indeed of Bellarmines minde in the points by him cited out of his booke, it ſeemeth to be impoſsible, that he this Examinat, being a graue and learned man, ſhould thinke, that that which Bellarmine hath ſaid (vpon very weake and ſimple grounds God knoweth) for proofe of the Popes indirect authority in ordine ad Spiritualia, is of ſufficient force, and moment, to ouerthrow all that hee hath written before, in his ſecond, third, fourth, and fifth Chapters of his ſaid booke (one of them being countenanced, for offending too much, with the word directè, his arguments being in effect ſimple and abſolute:) becauſe it is moſt apparant to euery man, that will not wilfully hoodwinke himſelfe, that hee the ſaid Bellarmine hath giuen the Pope ſuch a blow, and deadly wound, by many his ſo ſound and ſubſtantiall arguments againſt his pretended direct authority, as all the courſes, how indirect ſoeuer, that can be deuiſed by the fineſt wits, will neuer bee able to ſalue and cure it. And therefore this Examinate was required very ſtrictly, herein to expreſſe himſelfe more clearely.

62 Whereupon this Examinate ſaith, that he muſt indeed needs confeſſe and acknowledge, that he hath wiſhed, with all his heart, that either Cardinall Bellarmine had not intermedled with that queſtion of the Popes authoritie in temporalibus indirectly, or els that hee had bene able (if it haue any trueth in it) to haue handled it more pithily, and throughly: that the weakenes of his arguments for that point compared with the poſitions ſet downe by this Examinat out of his ſaid booke (as is aforeſaid) hath beene an eſpeciall cauſe (as he thinketh) why many of later times doe ſo earneſtly labour to refell them; as foreſeeing, that if the Popes authority in temporalibus, to depoſe Kings, &c. ſhould ſtand vpon this point, viz. that he had it but indirectly, the ſame would be ſubiect to great hazard, conſidering the oppoſitions in theſe dayes to the Church of Rome: and that therefore, inſomuch as the thing it ſelfe (viz. whether the Pope hath any authoritie at all to eradicate and depoſe Emperours and Kings for any cauſe) which is aimed at on both ſides, aſwell by them who affirme, that he hath ſuch an authoritie directly, as by thoſe, who ſay hee hath it not directly, but indirectly, is notwithſtanding left as yet vndetermined by the Church: hee this Examinate deſireth, that hee may not bee further vrged to interpoſe his opinion, otherwiſe then he hath done already, in matters of ſo great moment and difficultie.

63 This onely (as appertaining hereunto) he ſaith, that he is much grieued to ſee the Popes Supreme authority in cauſes Eccleſiaſticall, ſo much entangled with theſe pretences of another ſupreme authority in temporalibus; to be held directly and immediatly of Chriſt, or indirectly, per accidens, and by a certaine conſequence: as if otherwiſe Chriſt ſhould not haue ſufficiently prouided for the neceſsitie of the Church, nor furniſhed the Pope with abilitie to diſcharge his duetie; conſidering that without theſe deuiſes, ſo much inſiſted vpon, though with very great vncertaintie (to the great in dangering of the Popes vniuerſall charge ouer all Churches in Spiritualibus) Saint Peter and his ſucceſſors did ſufficiently prouide for the neceſsitie of the Church, when the Emperors and ciuill Magiſtrates were vtter enemies vnto it, and ſought by all the meanes that poſsibly they could deuiſe, to haue quite aboliſhed and extinguiſhed the name and memory of all Chriſtianity.

64 This Examinate being heere againe demaunded, how hee can make it appeare, that the point aboue by him ſpecified, is not as yet determined by the Church: ſaith, That hee is now from his bookes; but taketh the ſame to bee ſo euident, as he feared not, in his letter to Cardinall Bellarmine, to ſay, that this propoſition, ſcil. Papa habet poteſtatem deponendi Reges indirectè: The Pope hath power indirectly to depoſe kings, was not yet defined, tanquam res fidei formaliter, as a matter of faith formally: and well remembreth that Couaruuias in the ſecond part of his booke of the laſt edition at Lyons, pag. 504. doth ſet downe the names of diuers worthy perſons, that concurre with him (this Examinate) herein. Beſides he ſaith, that this doth further appeare by Cardinall Allen: where he affirmeth, that this propoſition or any other equiualent vnto it, viz. That Card. Allen against Defence of Engliſh Iuſtice cap. 4. pag 72. the Pope hath power to excommunicate, or depriue a Prince in caſe of hereſie, or Apoſtaſie, and conſequently to abſolue his ſubiects from their oath and obedience to him, is a meere matter of Diuinitie, if not defined (ſaith he) for vs, yet at the Alan • s ad perſecutor. Angios. ſol. 326. leaſt diſputable in ſchoole: or as it is in the Latin copie, Est quidem planè Theologica, & cum religione Chriſtianá arctiſsimè cohaerens, de quâ ſi for ſan non definitè pro parte noſtrâ pronunciatum ſit, poſſe tamen & ſolere Theologicis argumentis in vtram que partem diſputari, ipſi quidem aduerſarij, qui quicquam ſciunt, ignorare non poſsunt.

65 Here it being obiected, that ſeeing (as it ſeemeth) it is not yet determined by the Church of Rome, either that the Pope is Dominus temporalium, directly, or only, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, indirectly, or that hee hath any ſuch authority at all, whereabouts the authors of the two firſt opinions doe ſo hotly contend: and for that alſo he (this Examinate) hath profeſſed before, that he Sect. 36. was not bound to either of the ſaid opinions, vpon any danger of declining from the Catholike Church, but would vſe now his liberty, albeit in his letter to Cardinal Bellarmine he inclined to his ſide: and that therefore it ſeemed ſtrange, why he is ſo loth to expreſſe his mind apparantly, and without any circumſtances, what his ſincere iudgement is, (without reſpect of any mens perſons) as touching the Cardinals aſſertion for the Popes authority in temporalibus, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, in order to things ſpirituall; conſidering what dangerous conſequences thereupon may enſue to his Maieſtie and the State here: in reſpect whereof this Examinate, being eftſoones vrged, vpon his duetie towards God, and his Allegeance to his Maieſtie, to deliuer his iudgement, touching this point, truely and ſincerely: anſwereth, that becauſe hee is ſtill ſo preſſed in his Maieſties name, and in his name alſo, who faith, Ego ſum Veritas, I am the Trueth, to deale herein plainely and ſincerely, and finding that otherwiſe, hee ſhall not be able, to giue ſuch ſatiſfaction, as hee thinketh in his conſcience hee is bound to doe, hee anſwereth to the premiſſes, in maner as followeth; viz.

66 That it is true, that none of the ſaid three points obiected, are as yet determined: that hee muſt of neceſsitie acknowledge it to bee ſubiect to ſome reaſonable exceptions, why, before it be concluded, whether the Pope hath at all any authority to eradicate and depoſe Kings and Princes, &c. there is ſo earneſt diſputation of the maner, how he receiued it from Chriſt, whether directly or indirectly: that touching his former inclination to Cardinall Bellarmines opinion, foraſmuch as the ſame is more generally receiued, hee held it his duetie not to diſſent from him in apparance, it being the propertie of turbulent ſpirits, to quarrell at things conueniently ſetled for the good of the Church; and againſt the common rule, Malum bene poſitum, non eſſe mouendum, things ſubiect to ſome exceptions, are not alwaies to be ruffled in, eſpecially when they may tend to the preiudice of Chriſtian tranquillity; and that he would ſtil haue concealed his own iudgement to himſelfe touching theſe points, had hee not been ſo greatly vrged (as in diuers parts of this his Examination it may appeare) to declare it.

67 That (as it were by the way, but very pertinent to this Examinates cauſe) foraſmuch as by the premiſſes it is not onely euident, that the points contained in the Oath of Allegeance, are left as yet to bee diſputed on in vtramque partem, (as Cardinall Allen affirmeth) but is alſo as plaine and manifeſt, that when Cardinall Bellarmine writ to this Examinate, that one of the chiefe heads of faith & foundations of Catholike Religion was brought into danger by this Examinates taking of the ſaid Oath: hee, the ſaid Cardinall was vtterly miſ-informed, as ſuppoſing the ſame to bee againſt the Popes Supremacie in cauſes Eccleſiaſtical; whereunto that Oath, (as before he hath ſaid) had no maner of relation: for otherwiſe it is apparant, that his taking of that Oath, can no way endanger any head or foundation either of faith, or of Chriſtian Religion; there being no ſuch heads, or foundations yet agreed vpon or laide in that behalfe.

68 That therefore as he hath acknowledged his libertie (without danger of declining from the Catholicke Church) to expreſſe his iudgement, as well of this opinion ſo much vrged againſt him concerning the Popes authoritie in temporalibus indirectè, as he hath done before of the other, viz. that the Pope (as he thinketh) is not Dominus temporalium, directè; ſo this Examinate will now at the laſt vſe that his libertie at this time, becauſe hee doeth finde it to be as lawfull for him to refuſe the one as the other: and doeth thereupon accordingly profeſſe with all trueth and ſinceritie, that (as he thinketh) neither of the ſaid opinions is true: that what he this Examinate hath before ſet downe at large out of Cardinall Bellarmine, he thinketh in his conſcience is ſound and Catholicke, and cannot be impeached either by the Canoniſts, and thoſe their aſsiſtants, that lately haue taken their parts ſo eagerly, for the Popes direct power, or by the other ſide, who to the ſame end for his dealing with Emperours, Kings, and Princes, as is aforeſaid, doe attribute the ſame vnto him, though indirectly: and that he is the bolder in this ſort to declare his minde concerning the ſaid two oppoſite opinions, becauſe it is not yet defined (as hee hath ſaid) by the Church, whether Chriſt hath left to the Pope any ſuch authoritie at all, to eradicate and depoſe Emperors and Kings, as they contend for prepoſterouſly, in labouring (before it be reſolued whether hee hath any ſuch authoritie, or not) to perſwade men in what maner the ſame was giuen vnto him, directly ſaith the one ſide, indirectly ſaith the other.

69 That hee verily ſuppoſeth, that Cardinall Bellarmine, being ſo worthy and eminent a man for iudgement and learning, hath not been ſo peremptorie in the handling of the two ſaid points, whether the Pope hath the ſaid ſurmiſed authoritie directly or indirectly: but that hee hath left vnto himſelfe ſome ſufficient warrant and libertie, to varie (if there be occaſion) in the ſaid third point, viz. whether Chriſt gaue to S. Peter any ſuch authoritie at all, or no. For whereas hee (the ſaid Cardinall) doeth plainely affirme, that Papa, vt Papa, ordinariè Temporales Principes deponere Bellar. lib. 5. de Rom. Pont. cap. 6. etiam iuſtâ de cauſâ non poteſt: tamen poteſt regna mutare, & vni auferre, & alteri conferre tanquam ſummus Princeps ſpiritualis, ſi idneceſſarium ſit ad animarum ſalutem: That is, The Pope cannot, as he is Pope, (though there be iuſt cauſe) by his ordinarie power depoſe ciuill Princes, yet as he is the ſupreme ſpiritual Prince he may tranſlate Kingdomes, and take them from one, and conferre them vpon another, if need ſo require, for the ſauing of ſoules: he ſaith in effect nothing elſe, though couertly, but that the Pope hath no power at all to depoſe Kings. For S. Peter neither did, nor could transferre any authoritie vnto his Succeſſor, but ordinarie: for which cauſe it is commonly held, that the reſt of the Apoſtles could not deriue the plenitude of their power to their ſucceſſors, as S. Peter did, becauſe the ſame in them was not ordinary, as in S Peter, but extraordinary: Extraordinaria enim poteſtas non tranſit in ſucceſſorem. For an extraordinarie power doeth not deſcend vnto the ſucceſſours. And at this point this Examinate ſaith he did aime (as farre as he durſt preſume) in his letter to the Cardinall, where hauing cited his words aboueſaid; Non poteſt, Papa, vt Papa, &c. hee writ after this ſort: Verba iuramenti ſunt, Papam non habere authoritatem deponendi Regem, & diſponendi de regnis & dominijs Maieſtatis ſuae: Et communis intellectus apud Magiſtratum ad nullum alium conceptum propendet, quàm ad hunc, viz. Papam, vt Papa eſt. Nam non poteſt pertingere ad illum conceptum, viz. tanquam ſummum Principem ſpiritualem. Et cùm proponitur iuramentum ſuſcipiendum, illius ſenſus, cognitus à Magiſtratu, reſtringitur ad ordinariam poteſtatem. Nam qui proponunt iuramentum, illi remotiſsimi ſunt à cogitatione extra ordinariae aut indirectae poteſtatis in Papâ reſidentis. That is, The words of the oath are, that the Pope hath not authoritie to depoſe the King, and to diſpoſe of his kingdomes and Dominions: And the common vnderſtanding thereof doth with the Magiſtrate incline to no other conceite, but to this; viz. the Pope, as he is Pope: For it cannot reach vnto that conſtruction, viz: as he is the ſupreme ſpiritual Prince. And when the oath is exhibited to be taken, the ſenſe thereof, apprehended by the Magiſtrate, is reſtrained vnto an ordinarie power. For they that miniſter the oath, are as farre as may bee from the thought of any extraordinarie, or indirect power, reſiding in the Pope. Beſides, it is apparant that the Pope is not otherwiſe the higheſt ſpiritual Prince but as hee is Pope, ſo as what he cannot doe as Pope, he cannot do as the chiefe ſpiritual Prince. And out of queſtion Carerius hath gotten an aduantage Carer. depot. Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 8. of the Cardinall by reaſon of his ſaid former aſſertion: where he the ſaid Carerius laboureth to prooue, that Chriſti vicarius propriè dicitur, Papa, Chriſts vicar is properly called, the Pope: and doth preſſe it hardly to this effect; that either the Pope is not Chriſts vicar, or elſe that hee doeth iudge inferiores Poteſtates, vt Papa, as he is Pope.

70 That the contents of the 39. 66. 68. and 69. Sections of this his Examination, being well weighed and conſidered, together with diuers other points by him ſet downe in the ſaid Examination: his anſwere (this Examinat ſaith againe) to the Cardinals letter, touching the clauſe moſt excepted againſt, doeth reach as farre, as by the oath of Allegeance was intended. For whereas (ſaith this Examinate) if the Pope ſhould haue any authoritie to depoſe and eradicate Kings, he hath it not by vertue of his power to Excommunicate, but muſt haue it of neceſsitie, either as he is ſuppoſed to be Dominus in temporalibus directè, the Lord of temporalties directly, or Dominus in temporalibus indirectè, the Lord of temporalties indirectly: and that Cardinall Bellarmine is peremptorie, that the Pope cannot depoſe kings by any ordinarie iuriſdiction, that he hath, as he is Pope; and Carerius, with all his vpholders on the other ſide, are as confident & reſolute, that if the Pope hath not ordinarie authoritie, as he is Pope, to depoſe kings, he hath no ſuch authoritie at all: for as much as what hee this Examinate hath before affirmed, how in his opinion (as hee ſaith) the Pope hath no authoritie to depoſe Kings, either as he is Dominus in temporalibus directly, or indirectly: the ſame is nothing elſe then what he depoſed vnto, when he ſware, that in his conſcience, the Pope neither of himſelfe, nor by any authority of the Church or See of Rome, or by any other meanes with any other, hath any power or authoritie to depoſe the King, &c. And becauſe alſo, that whether he ſhould haue had authoritie to depoſe Kings or not, he muſt haue had it by ſome imperiall or ciuill authoritie, either as hee is Dominus in Temporalibus directly or indirectly: conſidering that to be Dominus in temporalibus in any of the ſaid two reſpects, is to haue an imperiall and ciuill authoritie: hee this Examinate ſaith, that theſe points well weighed, it is plaine, that when hee writ to the Cardinall: Summum Pontificem non habere imperialem & ciuilem poteſtatem deponendi Regem noſtrum: that the Pope hath not an imperiall or ciuill power to depoſe our King: he told the Cardinall in effect as much, as if he had ſaid vnto him, that the Pope hath no authoritie at all to depoſe his Maieſtie.

71 That for the further clearing of his (this Examinates) relying vpon his Maieſties ſpeeches in Parliament, when he tooke the oath of Alleageance, and his mentioning of it likewiſe to the Cardinall; he this Examinate ſaith, that except it be thought a fault, to anſwere truely to a matter propounded, when he ſpeaketh not all the truth, that doeth thereunto appertaine, (which were a ſtrange conceit; the order neither of Schooles, nor of any iudiciall Courts in the world, binding any man to proceed further in his anſwere to any queſtion or interrogatorie, then the ſame doeth leade him:) hee this Examinate ſeeth not (hee ſayth) what can be ſubiect to any iuſt reprehenſion, in his anſwere to the Cardinals letter, the ſubſtance thereof being grounded vpō this conceit, that he this Examinate, in taking the oath of Allegeance, had ſworne againſt the Popes ſupremacie in cauſes Eccleſiaſticall.

72 For anſwere vnto which erroneous conceit, hee this Examinate ſayth, that when hee writ, that hee tooke the oath in this ſenſe, viz. That the Pope had no imperiall and ciuill authority to depoſe his Maieſtie, the ſame is true, whether it be attributed to the Pope, either directly or indirectly: alſo when he writ, That the Pope had no imperiall and ciuill authoritie to depoſe the King at his pleaſure, and vpon his appetite; the ſame alſo is as cuident, though the Pope had as great authoritie, as they pretend hee hath, who ſay he is Dominus in Temporalibus directly: that where hee this Examinate, hauing cited diuers authours to this effect, that the Pope hath authoritie indirectly in ordine ad ſpiritualia, did thereupon inferre, that the Pope could not depoſe his Maieſtie, becauſe if he ſhould ſo doe, he ſhould vſe that his authoritie, non ad ſpiritualia promouenda, ſed euertenda: not to the furtherance of ſpiritual matters, but to the ouerthrow of them; and therupon did adde, that he held nothing els therein, quàm quod vbig Theologi in ſuas concluſiones compegerunt, then what was generally concluded amongſt Diuines: he ſaid (as he thinketh) therein alſo truly, for that the cōmon opinion is, that the Pope hath no authoritie, ad deſtructionem, to deſtruction. So that albeit he might (as he ſaith) haue anſwered to euery point of the Cardinals letter more throughly, yet that which he writ, being ſufficient to anſwere it: he thought it his beſt courſe to write, as he did.

73 It being heere againe obiected, that notwithſtanding he this Examinate hath very well declared his iudgement, to any mans contentment, who is ignorant of the new deceitfull ſhifts of equiuocation: yet becauſe Cardinall Bellarmine holdeth, that albeit the Pope cannot depoſe a king by his ordinary authority directly, as hee is Pope: he may neuertheleſſe mutare Regna & vni Bell. de Rom. Pont. lib 5. cap. 6. auferre atque alteri conferre, tanquam ſummus Princeps ſpiritualis, alter Kingdomes, and take them from one, and giue them to another, as he is the higheſt ſpirituall Prince, as hauing authority in temporalibus, in ordine ad ſpiritualia: foraſmuch as yet it may well be doubted, whether he this Examinate, when hee ſaith, that the Pope hath no Imperiall or Ciuill authority, nor any power in temporalibus either directly or indirectly to depoſe and eradicate kings, to abſolue their ſubiects of their allegeance, or to authorize them to beare armes againſt them, hath not this, or ſome ſuch like cuaſion, viz. that it may truely be affirmed, that the Pope hath no ſuch authority, to bee termed properly either Imperiall, or Ciuill, becauſe whether he hath it in temporalibus directly, or indirectly, yet the authority in it ſelfe, being employed for the depoſition of Kings &c. is to bee named, according to the end, wherefore it is ſo vſed; which being for the good of the Church, (that is ſpirituall) the ſaid authority is not to be called a Temporall, but a Spirituall authoritie; whereby all which hee this Examinate hath hitherto ſaid may be eluded, and made fruſtrate by this, or ſome ſuch ſhift, viz: The Pope hath no Imperiall, and Ciuill authority to depoſe the king, that is, he cannot depoſe him by his Ciuill authority, as it is Ciuill, but as it is Spirituall: and againe to the ſame effect, the Pope hath no authority in temporalibus, either directly or indirectly, to depoſe kings; verum eſt, the authoritie which the Pope hath in Temporalibus, to depoſe kings, is to be termed Eccleſiaſticall and not Temporall, as it is truely called, when Kings and Princes doe vſe it to an end which is Ciuill: he this Examinate was vrged to expedite this difficultie with ſome reaſonable plainneſſe and perſpicuity.

74 Whereupon this Examinate being grieued (as he profeſſed) that nothing would be accepted in ſatiſfaction of his duetie (as he feareth,) ſaid, that aſſuredly there ſhould be no defect in his ſinceritie, howſoeuer the ſame might be wreſted: and therefore to the ſaid obiection briefly anſwereth, That although hee doeth acknowledge that there are ſome, who ſay, that when Boct. Epon. Heroie. & Eccleſiaſtic. quaeſt. pag. 185. the Pope doth inflict Temporall puniſhments, for the better preſeruation of his Spirituall authority, nullâ dicetur vti Iuriſdictione temporali, ſed merè ſpirituali, cùm totum hoc ad animarum ſalutem, coeleſte que regnum referatur: he ſhall not therein be ſaid to vſe temporall Iuriſdiction, but merely Spirituall, ſith this whole action hath reſpect to the ſaluation of ſoules, and to the kingdome of heauen: yet becauſe the moſt that write after this ſort, doe qualifie their ſpeeches therein, with a quaſi, or dici poteſt, or magis, or aliquo modo; it is apparant that their meaning is not, that ſuch a temporall authority vſed to a ſpirituall end, is in very deede, and in trueth a meere ſpirituall authoritie.

75 Beſides, he this Examinat further addeth, that to his vnderſtanding, the depoſing of Kings, and the exciting of their ſubiects, to beare armes againſt him; will hardly be raunged amongſt ſpirituall actions. In ſumme therefore this Examinate ſaith, that in his iudgement, the Popes ſpirituall authoritie ought not to be extended, beyond the power of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen, and of the cenſures of the Church, properly ſo called: and that the Pope hath no authoritie at all in temporalibus either directly or indirectly to depoſe Kings, &c. by what name or title ſoeuer the ſaid power, when he putteth it in practiſe in ordine ad ſpiritualia in order to things ſpirituall (as he the ſaid Pope ſuppoſeth) may bee termed, whether ſpirituall or temporall; or whether the end hee aimeth at, by ſuch his proceedings with any King or Prince, be ſpiritual or ſupernaturall, that is, bee pretended to bee vndertaken for the good of the Church, and promoting of Chriſtianitie: the ſame in this Examinats iudgement (as hee ſaith) being neither Apoſtolicall, nor agreeable to the practiſe of the moſt worthy Biſhops of Rome in the Primitiue Church, and for a long time after, nor auaileable in truth to the Catholicke Church, but rather hurtfull, and great hinderances thereunto.

76 And here this Examinate further ſaieth, that the premiſſes conſidered, viz: vpon what vncertainties the maintenance of the Popes authoritie, not to excommunicate, but to depoſe Princes, doth conſiſt: hee confeſſeth that hee cannot chuſe but acknowledge, that he much wondreth, and in that cogitation is alſo exceedingly grieued, that euer Gregorie the ſeuenth, or any Pope ſince did in their Excommunications of certaine Emperours, Kings and Princes, take vpon them in the ſame, to denounce them depoſed from their kingdomes, to releaſe their Subiects of the othes of their Allegeance, and to authorize them no longer to obey their Soueraignes, vnder paine of Excommunication: as alſo that many men, aſwell Emperours, Kings, Princes, and their ſubiects haue thereby receiued great detriment, eſpecially ſubiects, who haue ſpent their liues, as ſuppoſing the cauſe was iuſt, which they vndertooke, this in the meane while being indeed their caſe, that as what they did therein, was in truth wicked, and rebellious, ſo when either that, which they took in hand had not good ſucceſſe, or when afterwards the Pope and ſuch Princes grew to an agreement, they were euer for the moſt part reputed (according to their deſerts) for Rebels and Traitours, vnder pretence of ſome thing or other, that was amiſſe in their proceedings: and that therefore he hopeth, that in time all Catholickes will hereafter by other mens harmes learne to beware, and not bee drawen to any diſobedience againſt their Soueraignes vnder any pretence whatſoeuer.

77 The authours of the late moſt wicked, and barbarous treaſon, commonly termed the Gun-powder treaſon, had (as this Examinate verily thinketh) ſome intendment to haue aduanced thereby the Catholicke cauſe: for that his Maieſtie did ſtill perſiſt in the ſame courſe, which was held by the late Queene his predeceſſor, or by what other inducements, this Examinate knoweth not. Howbeit, as this was their iuſt reward here, that they were condemned, and executed for traitours; ſo doe they worthily reape amongſt all diſcreete Catholikes and wiſe men abroad in other Countries, nothing but ſhame and infamy to the memorie of their owne names and poſteritie: which this Examinate wiſheth from the bottome of his heart, may euer be the ſucceſſe of all manner of perſons whatſoeuer, that ſhall imagine, or ſeeke to contriue any hurt to his Maieſtie, the Prince, or any other of his Highneſſe poſteritie, or to the preſent ſtate of this kingdome, vnder any colour or pretence of conſcience, religion, fauour towards the Biſhops of Rome, or any thing els whatſoeuer. Only this Examinat here addeth, that as he doth very well approue, that Catesby with his fellowes ſhould bee chronicled for traitours by any or whereſoeuer: ſo he diſliketh, that the ſaid Criſtanouic alſo, who is aboue named, ſhould endeuour after a ſort to qualifie their offence, by caſting an vntrue and ſhamefull ſcandall vpon this whole nation: where after a long diſcourſe to prooue, that Engliſh men haue from time to time conſpited againſt their kings, not for religion, but in reſpect of their owne rebellious nature: he concludeth thus, with relation to the ſaid Gun-powder traitors: Cauſam tenes, lector, coniurationum Anglicanarum, quarum furorem falsò religioni Staniſta. Criſtanouic. exam. Cath. fol. 18. Catholicae legiſlatores tribuunt: that is, Thus (Reader) you haue the true cauſe of the Engliſh conſpiracies; the furie whereof, their Law-makers doe falſly impute to the Catholique religion. And againe, Non ergo Catholicum ſed Anglicanum ingenium, Reges Ibidem. Angliae non ſinit ſecuros eſſe: that is, It is not therefore the Catholique, but the Engliſh humor, which will not ſuffer the Kings of England to liue ſecure. For (as this Examinate ſaith) what this fellow affirmeth of Engliſh men, may bee as well iuſtified of any nation in Chriſtendome, if ſuch a raſh iudgement might be grounded vpon ſuch like arguments as he hath vſed: But here this Examinate remembring his drift, wiſheth in his heart, that it might be neuer forgotten by any Catholiques, or other Engliſh men whoſoeuer, what guerdon, commendation, and infamous renowme they may iuſtly expect, that for any cauſe whatſoeuer (as is aforeſaid) ſhall attempt any thing againſt their Soueraigne.

78 Thus farre this Examinate hauing opened his iudgement, vpon ſuch occaſions as were miniſtred vnto him: he vſed ſundry ſpeeches, how much it troubled him, that either his Maieſtie, or the State ſhould doubt of his ſinceritie, and Allegeance, and therefore for a concluſion, and as it were to adde his ſeale, to all that before he hath ſaid, he further affirmeth, viz:

That he doeth truely and ſincerely, from the bottome of his heart acknowledge, profeſſe, teſtifie and declare in his conſcience before God and the world, that King Iames his Soueraigne lord, is iure diuino, and by the poſitiue lawes of this realme, lawfull and rightfull King of this realme, and of all other his Maieſties Dominions, and Countries, both de facto, and de iure: and that it was not lawfull, either for his Maieſties Subiects, to haue withſtood him by force, from being their king, nor euer can be lawful for them, now that he is their king, to riſe vp againſt him, or ſeeke by any wayes or meanes to hurt him, either in his health, or in his regall eſtate; although he denieth the Popes ſupremacie in cauſes Eccleſiaſticall, and ſeeketh (as he may) to ſuppreſſe all thoſe, that diſſent from him in thoſe points of Religion, which hee imbraceth: and though likewiſe they (his ſaid ſubiects) being either Catholikes or Proteſtants, had ſufficient numbers, forces, and ability ſo to doe, without any ſcandall to the Catholike cauſe, and without any danger to themſelues either in their goods or liues.

79 That the Pope iure diuino, by the lawe of God, neither of himſelfe, nor by any authority of the Church, or See of Rome, or by any other meanes with any other hath any power or authority, either directly or indirectly, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, (whether the ſaid authoritie bee termed ſpiritual or temporall, or mixt, or howſoeuer it is, or may be termed) to depoſe the King, or to diſpoſe any of his Maieſties kingdomes or dominions, or to authorize any forreine Prince to inuade or annoy him, or his countreys: or to diſcharge any of his ſubiects of their Allegeance and obedience to his Maieſtie; or to giue licenſe or leaue to any of them to beare armes, raiſe tumult, or to offer any violence or hurt to his Maieſties Roial perſon, State, or gouernment, or to any of his Maieſties ſubiects within his Maieſties dominions.

80 That he doeth alſo affirme from his heart, that notwithſtanding any declaration, or Sentence of Excommunication, or depriuation made or graunted, or to bee made or graunted by the Pope or his ſucceſſours, or by any authoritie deriued, or pretended to be deriued from him or his See, againſt the ſaid King, his heires, or ſucceſſours, or any abſolution of the ſaid ſubiects from their obedience: hee will beare faith and true alleageance to his Maieſtie, his Heires and Succeſſours, and him and them will defend to the vttermoſt of his power againſt all conſpiracies and attempts whatſoeuer, which ſhall bee made againſt his, or their perſons, their crowne and dignitie, by reaſon or colour of any ſuch ſentence or declaration, or otherwiſe, by reaſon or colour of any authoritie or power, aſcribed to the Pope in temporalibus, directly or indirectly, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, whether the ſaid authoritie be termed ſpirituall or temporall, or mixt, or howſoeuer it is, or may be termed, and will do his beſt endeauour to diſcloſe and make knowen vnto his Maieſtie, his Heires and Succeſſours, all treaſons and traiterous conſpiracies, which hee ſhall know or heare of, to bee againſt him, or any of them.

81 That furthermore he doeth auow it from his heart, that hee doeth abhorre, deteſt and abiure, as impious and hereticall this damnable doctrine and poſition: that Princes which be excommunicated by the Pope, or are depriued by him of their kingdomes, by this pretended authoritie in Temporalibus, either directly or indirectly, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, (whether the ſaid authoritie be termed ſpirituall or temporall, or mixt, or howſoeuer it is or may be termed) may be depoſed or murthered by their ſubiects, or any other whatſoeuer, notwithſtanding any commaundement, direction or aduiſe, directly or indirectly giuen to the contrary, by any manner of perſon whoſoeuer, and notwithſtanding any expoſition, or declaration of the Popes interpretatiue will, that if any in zeale, by reaſon either of the ſaid Excommunication, or depriuation, or of them both, wil either aduenture to take vp armes againſt ſuch a King, or to lay violent hands vpon his perſon, the Pope is bound by his office to approue it, becauſe the ſame did tend to the execution of his Sentence, and to the promoting of the end, he aimed at.

82 That hee alſo doeth beleeue, and is in his conſcience reſolued, that neither the Pope, nor any perſon whatſoeuer, hath power to abſolue him of this oath, or of any part thereof, whereby he might truely thinke himſelfe diſcharged in any one point of his Allegeance before by him profeſſed: and that therefore hee doeth renounce all Pardons and Diſpenſations in that behalfe.

83 And that laſtly hee doeth plainely and ſincerely acknowledge, as in the preſence of God, and vpon his Allegeance to his Maieſtie, that what hee this Examinate hath deliuered, and is here ſet downe in this his Examination, the ſame doeth conteine his true iudgement, ſo farre as his learning reacheth, without any equiuocation, or mentall cuaſion, or ſecret reſeruation whatſoeuer: and is to be vnderſtood, according to the expreſſe words, as they are ſet downe, and according to the plaine and commonſenſe and vnderſtanding of the ſame.

84 But heere againe it being obiected, that albeit he this Examinate hath very well diſcharged his duetie, as well in his expreſsing his iudgment, in the points aboue propounded vnto him (that of the Popes Supremacie in cauſes Eccleſiaſtical, & ſome other touches of certaine things, not appertaining to the oath of Alleageance excepted:) yet foraſmuch as the ſame doeth depend vpon this vncertaintie, whether the Pope will define it, to bee a matter of faith, and accordingly then to be acknowledged by Popiſh Catholickes, that hee may depoſe Kings, and deale with their ſubiects, as is aforeſaid; and that thereby his Maieſtie, and all other Chriſtian Kings and Princes (as their occaſions fall out) ſhall ſtill reſt vnaſſured of the loyaltie of their ſubiects, and of their owne ſafeties: it was neceſſary, that hee this Examinate ſhould alſo cleare this point: for anſwere whereunto he ſaith as followeth.

85 That hee did not imagine any ſuch matter would haue bene propounded vnto him becauſe it is well knowen to all that bee learned, that no man can iudge before hand de futuris contingentibus, of future contingents, and therefore he deſired that he might be forborne.

86 But hereunto this reply being made, that although there can bee no certaine iudgement de futur is contingentibus, ſoil: contingant vel non contingant: whether they ſhall happen or not happen; yet of a certaine and determinate thing propounded, what might be thought of it, if it ſhould happen, there may before hand a direct and ſure iudgement be giuen: For example: it is futurum contingens, whether euer any King, and Parliament in ENGLAND will make a Statute to reſtore to the Pope his Supremacie here, as fully as euer he had it: and yet it is not to bee doubted, but that he this Examinat, if he were now asked, whether in his iudgement, ſuch a Statute were lawfull and iuſt, or not, and might accordingly be put in execution: he would out of queſtion anſwere before hand affirmatiuely: and euen ſo it being told this Examinate, that hee might doe in the caſe propounded; after ſome deliberation, thus he anſwered, viz:

87 That (as hee writ vnto the Cardinall) although it ſhould be determined to be a point fidei formaliter, of faith formally, that the Pope might deale with Princes, as is aforeſaid, and were accordingly ſo to be receiued in theſi in the generall poſition: yet this queſtion propounded in hypotheſi, by way of particular ſuppoſition an Papa habeat poteſtatem deponendi Regem noſtrum, rebus in co ſtatu, quo nunc ſunt, permanentibus apud nos, whether the Pope haue power to depoſe our King, matters continuing with vs in the ſtate, wherein now they are: he this Examinat ſaith now, as he writ then, that the determination of this queſtion, touching his Maieſtie ſhould only be of that, which is fidei materialiter, of faith materially: quia eſſet determinatio de quaeſtione, quae in rebus creditis accidit, & proinde non diceretur determinatio de fide, ſed de tali materiâ: becauſe it ſhould bee the deciſion of a queſtion which hapneth about things beleeued, and therefore is not to be ſaid to bee a determination touching Faith, but concerning ſuch or ſuch a matter: wherein, becauſe (as hee hath before obſerued out of Sylueſter, and Couarruuias) the Pope may be deceiued; hee this Examinat ſaith, that in his iudgment, let them define at Rome, what they liſt in this matter; yet if the ſame ſhould be offered to be practiſed againſt his Maieſtie, it ought not to bee entertained, receiued, or obeyed by any of his Maieſties ſubiects, the ſame tending not to edification, but to deſtruction.

88 Againſt this anſwere ſuch exceptions being taken, as are before ſet downe: after ſome further enforcing of them with many circumſtances, and repetitions of ſundry points, by him before acknowledged: hee was at the laſt content further to enlarge himſelfe in maner hereafter enſuing: affirming: viz:

That in his iudgement, the Pope will neuer determine it to bee a matter of faith, for Catholickes to beleeue, that hee hath authoritie to depoſe Emperours, or Kings, to abſolue their ſubiects from their Allegeance, and to authorize them, either to diſobey them, or to beare armes againſt them: becauſe hitherto, when it might haue beene better done, and with leſſe ſcandall, and inconuenience, it hath not beene ſo defined; notwithſtanding that the Popes themſelues in their owne perſons, and the citie of Rome it ſelfe haue bene in greater danger and perill, then they now are: and this Examinatis fully reſolued, that the preſent Pope, and the Cardinals his aſsiſtants are as graue, wiſe, and prouident now, to foreſee what euill, and inconuenience might grow to the Church by ſuch a reſolution, as euer any of their predeceſſors were in times paſt.

89 That he is fully perſwaded, that as it doth tend to the expreſsing of the ſupereminent excellencie of the iuſtice of God, to ſay, that he cannot doe any thing, that is vniuſt; and of the great honour and dignitie of Kings and Princes, to affirme of them, that Reges non poſſunt eſſe ſerui: Soueraignes cannot bee vaſſals: ſo it doth no way derogate from the high dignitie and calling of the Biſhop of Rome, but rather doth greatly aduaunce it, to ſay, that becauſe hee cannot erre, there are therefore many things which hee cannot doe, For example, euen in the point queſtioned, as the Pope cannot determine it to be lawfull, vnder any pretence whatſoeuer, for a man to commit adultery with his neighbours wife: no more can he determine it to bee lawfull vnder any pretence whatſoeuer, for any of his Maieſties ſubiects to beare armes againſt him; both of them being againſt the morall law of God, which the Goſpel doeth in no one point preiudice. Nor as he cannot by any determination or reſolution, vpon any pretence whatſoeuer, make a ſonne to bee no ſonne, during the life of his father: no more can he make the borne ſubiect of any king, not to be his ſubiect, ſo long as the king liueth.

90 That he is alſo altogether of this opinion, that whereas the defining of the Popes ſaid vndetermined authoritie to depoſe kings &c. ſtanding vpon this iſſue, that either he hath indeede no ſuch authoritie at all, or elſe, that he hath it, as being dominus temporalium directè, the lorde of temporall things directly, or as dominus temporalium, in ordine ad ſpiritualia indirectè, the lord of temporall things, in an order vnto ſpirituall things indirectly; foraſmuch as ſuch a determination muſt of neceſsity include the condemnation of the opinion either of Cardinall Bellarmine, and of that ſtrong ſide that taketh his part (which may breede ſome further trouble,) or of Cardinall Baronius, and thoſe that ioine with him, being many and increaſing dayly more and more, with great confidency, that they haue the trueth, (which no doubt will bee found inconuenient, conſidering that their poſitions doe much more tend to the honour of the Church of Rome, then thoſe that are mainteined, as peremptorily by the other ſide:) he this Examinate is of this opinion (as he ſaith) that there will neuer be any ſuch determination, as hath bene obiected, or at leaſt, that it will not bee for many yeeres yet to come, whileſt there is ſo ſtrong oppoſition, concerning the manner, how and in what ſort Chriſt gaue Saint Peter that authority (if he gaue it him at all) viz: whether directly, or indirectly, immediatly, or by a certaine conſequence: except it may bee held to be ſufficient (leauing both the ſides mentioned contending amongſt themſelues) without any certaine grounds, firme reaſons, impregnable teſtimonies either of Scriptures or Ancient Fathers, firſt agreed vpon by the Church and concluded, ſo to define, as is imagined: which this Examinate is fully aſſured, the Pope and Cardinals, being men of ſuch excellencie and wiſedome, will neuer attempt.

91 That although it may peraduenture bee confidently giuen out (as it hath bene vntruely by many already) that the Pope to haue authoritie to depoſe kings &c. is defined at Rome, to be held as a point of faith; thereby ſtill to keepe on foote the ancient opinion ſince Gregorie the ſeuenths time of the Popes authoritie in that behalfe, for the good of Chriſtian kings and Princes, that they might be the rather induced to continue in ſome awe and feare, if they did not their dueties belonging to Chriſtianitie: yet hee this Examinate thinketh it very neceſſary, that no Catholicke ſhould giue any faith to that report, except he may ſee the ſame authentically ſo confirmed and euident, as the Canon lawes in a caſe of ſuch importance doe require: which this Examinate is fully perſwaded, they ſhall neuer ſee: or that if any ſuch thing ſhould happen to fall out, this Examinate is verily perſwaded, it will not bee a generall reſolution, touching the Popes authoritie to depoſe kings &c: but onely to the point in queſtion nowe amongſt Catholickes here in England, that it is not lawfull to take the ſaid oath of Allegeance, and then this Examinate further ſaith, that the ſame will bee built vpon this falſe ground, that the oath of Allegeance doeth include the oath againſt the Popes ſupremacie in cauſes Eccleſiaſticall, as he foreſeeth already by the Cardinals letter vnto him, and by the ſaid Criſtanouic, who hauing ſet down the ſaid oth at large, writeth thus: Quod iuramentum? De Primatu Regis in ſpiritualibus: And what oath? Of the kings Supremacy in cauſes ſpiritual, & that therfore if any ſuch reſolution come authentically, as is aforeſaid, the ſame (as all Catholickes are to iudge of the Popes ſinceritie) being procured by ſurreption, and falſe ſuggeſtions ad deſtructionem, to deſtruction, no Catholicke is bound to be ouer-ruled by it, but the ſame notwithſtanding, euery Catholicke may ſafely and lawfully take the ſaide oath of Allegeance, if according to the Statute in that behalfe made, hee be required ſo to doe.

92 That alſo whatſoeuer may fall out at Rome, either touching the ſaid oath of Allegeance, or the Popes authoritie in temporalibus, without any mention of it therin, whether he hath it directly or indirectly, the ſame will not be more amply ſet out and declared, then it was before by Boniface Bonifac. de maior. & obedientia. vnam ſanctam. the 8. where he writeth in this ſort: In hac eiuſdem poteſtate duos eſſe gladios, ſpiritualem viz: & temporalem, Euangelicis dictis inſtruimur. Nam dicentibus Apoſtolis: Ecce duo gladij hîc; (in Eccleſiâ ſcil: cùm Apoſtoli loquerentur) non reſpondit Dominus, nimis eſt, ſed ſatis. Certè qui in poteſtate Petri temporalem gladium eſse negat, malè verbum attendit Domini proferentis: Conuerte gladium tuum in vaginam. Vter que ergo eſt in poteſtate Eccleſiae, ſpiritualis ſcil & materialis: That is, We are warranted by the wòrds of the Goſpel, that in his power were two ſwords; the one ſpirituall, the other temporall. For when the Apoſtles ſaide, Beholde, here are two ſwords, (meaning in the Church, ſith the Apoſtles ſpake it) Chriſt replied not, it is too much, but it is enough. Aſſuredly, whoſoeuer denieth, that the temporall ſword is in S. Peters power, he doth not wel marke the ſpeech of Chriſt, ſaying, Put vp thy ſword into the ſheath: Therefore both ſwords are in the power of the Church, as well the temporall as the ſpirituall. And a little after: Veritate teſtante, ſpiritualis potestas terrena inſtituere habet, & iudicare. That is, Trueth it ſelfe teſtifying, that the ſpirituall power is to order and to iudge earthly affaires; according to the prophet Ieremies words: Ego conſtituite hodie ſuper gentes, & regna, & caetera, quae ſequuntur. I haue ſet thee this day ouer nations and kingdomes, &c: All which particulars notwithſtanding, for the ſetting out of that Conſtitution, purpoſely made againſt the king of France; Clemens the fift ſhortly after made another conſtitution to the empeachment of the former; wherein he writeth thus: Nos Regi & regno per definitionem & declarationem bonae memoriae Bonifacij Papae 8 praedeceſſoris noſtri, quae incipit, Vnam Sanctam, nullum volumus, vel intendimus praeiudicium generari: nec quod per illam Rex regnum, & regnicolae praelibati, amplius Eccleſiae ſint ſubiecti Romanae, quàm antea exiſtebant, Sed omnia intelligantur in eodem eſſe ſtatu, quo erant ante definitionem prafatam: That is, Wee will not, neither is it our purpoſe, that any preiudice come vnto the King or the kingdome by that definitiue ſentence and declaration of Pope Boniface the 8. of worthy memorie, our predeccſſour, beginning thus, Vnam Sanctam; nor that by force thereof, the King, the kingdome, and people aforeſaid ſhould be ſubiect to the Church of Rome, more then formerly they were: But that all things be vnderſtood, to be in the very ſome ſtate, as they were before the aforeſaid definitiue ſentence was giuen.

93 Moreouer alſo this Examinate ſaith to the ſame purpoſe next before ſpoken of, that beſides the ſaid Clement, diuers other men of meaner calling, haue beene bold to refell ſome of the arguments, whereupon the ſaid Conſtitution was built, as Cardinall Bellarmine, that of the two ſwords: and diuers moe, though this Examinate cannot now ſet down their words: only he ſaith, he is well aſſured, that Huge Cardinalis doeth make a better expoſition (to this Examinates vnderſtanding) of the ſaid place of Ieremie, then Boniface did. So as if it happen, that the preſent Pope doe make any reſolution againſt the ſaid oath of Allegeance, beſides the exceptions taken before vnto it by this Examinate, he further addeth how it may well come to paſſe, that the next Pope will alter it: and that in the meane time, it may be as lawfull, for graue and learned Catholickes, to take exceptions vnto it, as it hath beene for any other, to empeach the ſaid Conſtitution of Boniface, or any part thereof. But this Examinate doeth well hope, that the preſent Pope in his great wiſedome will preuent this courſe, and approoue the graue iudgement of Petrus de Alliaco Cardinall of Cambray, who in his Treatiſe of the Reformation of the Church of Rome, offered to the Councell of Conſtance, begun Anno 1414. doeth write in this ſort: In hoc non debet Pet. de Alliaco de reform. Roma. eccleſiae. Papa, aut eius Curia, &c. Herein (as touching the Reformation of the body of the whole Church, and of the particular Church of Rome) the Pope or his Conſiſtorie, ought not to reiect the deliberation of a generall Councell, becauſe, as the gloſſe 19. diſtinct. ſuper cap. Anaſtaſius ſaith, the Pope is bound to require a Councell of Biſhops, when any point of faith is to be handled: quod non ſolum intelligo, &c. which I doe not onely vnderſtand, of the Articles of faith, but of difficult matters, that touch the vniuerſall ſtate of the faithfull Church: which Archidiaconus 15. diſt. c. Sicut. noteth, where approouing the ſaid gloſſe, he addeth: qòod nimis periculoſum eſſet fidem noſtram committere arbitrio vnius hominis: that it were too dangerous a matter to commit our faith to the arbitrement of one man: and that therefore the Pope in new and hard caſes was accuſtomed to haue recourſe to the deliberation of a Councell. That it is a matter of great difficultie and importance, and ſuch, as doeth very greatly concerne the whole Church, whether the Pope will hold it fit to determine either generally, that he hath no authoritie inſpiritualibus, or particularly, that it is not lawfull for Catholickes in England to take the ſaid oath of Allegeance; this Examinate is out of doubt; and is therefore ſo farre of the ſaid Cardinals minde, that neither of the ſaid points are to be diſcuſſed and concluded, without ſome great and mature deliberation.

94 This Examinate being here demaunded, whether he had ſeene a Booke lately come forth, intituled, A Treatiſe tending to mitigation towards Catholicke Subiects in England, and amongſt diuers things in it, whether hee had conſidered of certaine words vſed by the Earle of Salisburie, as they are ſet downe in the Preface of the ſaid Treatiſe, and of the Authour of that Booke his anſwere vnto them: he confeſſeth in euery particular, that he hath. The Earles words are there cited thus; that hee hath beene a long time ſorie, that ſome cleare P. R. his treatiſe tending to mitigation. Praefat. pag. 20 explication of the Papall authoritie hath not beene made, by ſome publike and definitiue ſentence Orthodoxall, &c. that not onely thoſe Princes, which doe acknowledge this authoritie (meaning the Popes) might be ſecured from feares and ielouſies of continuall Treaſons, and bloody aſſaſsinates againſt their perſons: but thoſe Kings alſo, which doe not approoue the ſame, and yet would faine reſerue a charitable opinion of their Subiects, might know how farre to repoſe themſelues in their fidelitie, in ciuill obedience, howſoeuer they ſeeme diuided from them, in point of conſcience.

95 Theſe words hauing bene in this ſort laide before this Examinate, after he had well marked both them, and the anſwere vnto them: hee was with ſome difficultie at the laſt induced to deliuer his iudgement, as touching the ſaid anſwere, ſaying: that hee liked very well of the firſt and third part thereof, as touching the Popes authoritie, ſo farre forth as it concerneth his power and charge, to looke to all Chriſts ſheepe, without exception of great or ſmall, people or Potentates, not onely for their inſtruction and direction in ſpiritualibus, but likewiſe, (if neede require) for their ſpirituall caſtigation, by the cenſures of the Church, interdiction and Excommunication, not to bee decreed or publiſhed without iuſt cauſe, graue and vrgent motiues, and due forme alſo of proceeding, by admonition, preuention, interceſsion, and other like preambles, preſcribed by Eccleſiaſticall Canons to be obſerued.

96 But as touching the ſecond part of his anſwere, this Examinate doubteth, how it may either ſatisfie the ſaid Earle, or any other, that is of ſound iudgement. For whereas the ſaid authour faith, that although there be a queſtion betwixt the Canoniſts, and the Catholicke diuines, whether the Pope haue ſuch an authoritie in temporalibus, directly or indirectly, as by them is diſputed of, and by this authour is briefly touched: yet both parts doe fully agree, that there is ſuch an authoritie left by Chriſt in his Church, for remedie of vrgent cauſes: for that otherwiſe he ſhould not haue ſufficiently prouided for the neceſsitie thereof: hee this Examinate doeth ſee, and acknowledge the trueth and importance of the iuſt exceptions that are alreadie and may hereafter peraduenture be taken to that anſwere.

97 For where the Earle of Salisburie wiſhed ſome cleare explication of the Popes authoritie by ſome publicke and definitiue ſentence: the ſaid authours anſwere is inſufficient, when hee ſaith, that both parts, viz: the one defending the Popes authoritie directly, and the other indirectly, were fully agreed for the ſaid authoritie, &c. but onely differed about the manner, how and in what ſort it was giuen vnto him by Chriſt: which wordes might ſeeme to import as much as the Earle deſired, whereas in deede the authoritie which this authour ſaith, both parts are agreed vpon, is not yet determined. For Cardinall Bellarmine and his Bellar. de Rom. Pont. lib. 5. cap. 4. ſide are fully reſolued, that the Pope hath no ſuch authoritie directly, and that conſequently he muſt either haue it indirectly, in ordine ad ſpiritualia, or not at all: and è contra the authours, who oppoſe themſelues to that opinion, are as confident, that he hath no authoritie in temporalibus, except hee haue it directly: ſo as how can it be ſaid they are Carer. de authorit. Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 5. & 8. agreed, when both ſides are ſo peremptorie, that he hath no ſuch authoritie at all, except he haue it, ſaith the one ſide, directly, ſaith the other ſide, indirectly? And for his further anſwere hereunto, he referreth himſelfe to that which before hee hath ſet downe in the 63, 68, 69, 76, 88, 90, and 91 Sections.

98 As it was obſerued in the 42. Section: that all princes for denying the Popes ſupremacie, though otherwiſe they profeſſe the Goſpell, are tearmed heretickes by the Romiſh Catholickes: ſo although they liue neuer ſo orderly according to their lawes, without inflicting any other puniſhments vpon offenders, then are agreed vpon by the Common-wealth, they are accounted tyrants, if for the repreſsing of Popiſh errours, they doe at ſome times giue way to the execution of ſuch Lawes, as are made againſt them. And none are more violent herein, then ſuch as were borne and bred vp amongſt vs in England, as Stapleton, and William Raynolds, (if they were the authors of the two bookes, intituled De iuſta abdicatione Henric. 3. and, De iuſta Reipuh. Chriſtianae in Reges impios, & haereticos authoritate:) who affirme, that all power at this day, which is auerſe from religion, De iuſta abdic. pag. 11. Roſſaeus pag. 106. (meaning the Romiſh religion) is tyrannie, and that they are tyrants, that doe vſe their kingly power, to the impoſing vpon their Subiects of that faith, which they terme hereticall: and for example of ſuch tyrants, one of them alledgeth K. Henry the 8. Edward the 6. and Queene Elizabeth. The conſequences of which aſſertions are, as Idem pag. 157. well in their opinions, as in the opinion of many other, that are of that ſect, that euery ſuch tyrant may be depriued of his kingdome, and (if neede be) murthered by his Subiects, yea by euery priuate man, if hee haue fit opportunitie, after that he is declared by the Common-wealth, as ſome ſay, to be a tyrant, or by the Pope, as others affirme. Whereby all kings and princes, that miſlike the Popes tyrannie, and ſundrie his corruptions, are by him and his prieſts infinitely diſhonoured, and no one way more, then by inciting their ſubiects to rebellion, vnder pretence of religion, which ought to be the ſureſt band of duety and obedience. In conſideration whereof, it being told this Examinate, that it was all one to his Maieſtie, whether (by the Popes doctrine) hee were to be depoſed from his Crowne, vnder either of theſe falſe pretences, that he is an hereticke, or that he is a tyrant, and that thereby his Subiects are no longer to obey him, but may beare armes againſt him, and offer violence vnto his ſacred perſon, as well in the one caſe as in the other: and that therefore it ſtood him in hand, ſeeing he profeſſeth himſelfe to be a true ſubiect, to deliuer himſelfe from theſe traiterous conceits: he the ſaid Examinate anſwered as followeth, ſaying:

99 That in his iudgement, if it be true (as this Examinat beleeueth it is) that the Pope hath no authoritie by any Sentence whatſoeuer, to depoſe a King for hereſie (as before he hath at large declared) nor to abſolue his ſubiects from their Allegeance: it is alſo as true a fortiori, that hee hath no authoritie by any Sentence or iudgment whatſoeuer, ſo to determine any king to be a tyrant, as that thereby his right to his kingdome, ſhould in any ſort be empeached, or his ſubiects ſet at liberty to rebell againſt him, or to offer any hurt vnto his perſon.

100 That he knoweth, what diuers haue written as touching tyrants, wherewith hee ſaith, it is impertinent for him now to intermeddle: affirming notwithſtanding, that (in his iudgement) no king, who in the courſe of his gouernement doth obſerue the lawes, eſtabliſhed in his kingdome, and doth not otherwiſe afflict his ſubiects, either by violence, rapine, crueltie, impoſitions, exactions, or by any other vnlawfull meanes, but (as he is bound) giueth way to the execution of his lawes, and onely vſeth the ancient prerogatiue of his Crowne, can in any true conſtruction be rightly iudged a tyrant, though ſome of his ſaid lawes, doe tend to the puniſhment of Catholickes, and to the maintenance of the religion, which he profeſſeth: diuers Emperours being in their times notable gouernours, and promoters of their Empire, to the great good of their ſubiects in temporall cauſes, though otherwiſe they were great enemies to Chriſtianitie.

101 That no King, who commeth to his Crowne by ſucceſsion, as being the right heire thereof, may lawfully, vnder any pretence of tyrannie, bee depoſed, or reſiſted by his ſubiects, either iointly aſſembled together, or otherwiſe by any ſecret machinations or treacheries of manie, few, or of any one: and that as touching this point, either of iudging a king to be a tyrant, or dealing with him thereupon, as is before mentioned, he is altogether of Maſter Blackwood his opinion: who writing againſt ſundry traiterous poſitions of Buchanans, tending to the effect before obiected, doth proue very ſufficiently theſe points that enſue, viz:

102 That no ſubiects can arrogate to themſelues Blackuodaei Apolog pro Regibus. pag. 56. any part of Regall authority without committing of treaſon, except the ſame bee delegated vnto them by the King: and that then alſo, they are to vſe the ſame authority, no otherwiſe then in ſuch ſort, and ſo long, as the King doeth willingly permit them: That our Kings here in this land are no way obliged Pag. 106. to the people for their kingdome, but haue all their power and Empire from God, and are onely bound to giue an account to him of the diſcharge of their office and duetie, their kingdomes belonging to them iure haereditario, by right of inheritance, ſo as no ſooner Pag. 178. is one King dead, but the next heire is actually king: no ceremonie or Coronation, or other circumſtances adding more to his right, then hee had before: That the Oath itſelfe which they take at their Coronation, being made to God, and not to the people, doeth not Pag. 221. any way empeach the intereſt they haue iure ſanguinis, Pag. 224. by their birth.

103 That, foraſmuch as the kings ſubiects, his Pag. 211. &c. Clergie, Nobles, and Commons cannot aſſemble together in Parliament, without the kings Writte, vnder paine of treaſon by the olde lawes, nor when they are come together, determine any matter, or make any Lawes without the Kings Royall aſſent, nor continue any longer together after the King doeth diſmiſſe them: it is apparant, that they haue no authoritie either to iudge the king a tyrant, or to remooue him: and that much leſſe any priuate perſons, his naturall borne ſubiects, haue authority to riſe vp againſt him, whatſoeuer may bee pretended, vnder any colour, cauſe, or gloſſe whatſoeuer: That amongst the three orders, which depoſed the Pag. 213. late Queene of Scotland, there were ſcarſe any, but three thecues, three traitours to their countrey, and three murtherers, with their abettors: reſembling the three-formed monſter, with the lions head, breathing out fire, the belly of a goate, and the taile of a dragon.

104 Whereunto this Examinate addethout of the ſaid M. Blackwood, that which hee himſelfe hath ſet downe before in effect in the beginning of his Examination, and may wel ſerue for a Theologicall concluſion of this point: Quotquot inſtituto Christi vixerunt, &c. As many as ſince Chriſts Pag. 241. time haue liued according to his inſtitution, did neuer decline the gouernement of Tyrants, and much leſſe did reſiſt them by force: they followed therein their Prince (Christ himſelfe) who although hee could haue withſtood the iniuries of the people, of the high Prieſt, and of Pilate the lieutenant, with many legions of Angels: yet hee yeelded himſelfe to death, that hee might thereby confirme that which he had taught in his life time, viz that an iniurie is to be borne gently and mildely, and not by force to be repelled. And againe, Pag. 242. Paulus ſimulat que &c. As ſoone as Paul became a Christian ſouldier, his ſeditious and bloody ſpirit being changed into the deſire of peace and quietnes, he honoured Agrippa, Foelix, and Lyſias the Roman Proconſuls, in reſpect of their offices, vt doctrinam ſuam exemplo vitae ſanciret, that he might ratifie his doctrine, by his example of life. To this purpoſe this Examinate ſaith he could alledge much more, in his deſire to ſhew the freedome of his iudgement from ſuch mens imaginations, as are named in this obiection: but the remembring onely of Catharinus vpon the 13. to the Romanes, together with the premiſſes, may (as he hopeth) giue ſufficient contentment.

105 Whereas this Examinate ſpeaking of the Popes authority in temporalibus, indirectly, Sect. 63. did adde theſe other equiualent phraſes to the word indirectly, viz per accidens, and by a certaine conſequence, but refuſed to inſert there the word caſualiter, and vpon ſome other occaſions did let fall from him, that the Pope had no inherent authoritie in temporalibus, either directly, or indirectly in ordine adſpiritualia, or per accidens, or by any conſequence, but that which he had, he had it caſually: foraſmuch as this word caſually may ſo bee vnderſtood, as that it may quite daſh and ouerthrowe all that formerly hath been ſaid by this Examinate for the clearing of his Allegeance to his Maieſtie, he was ſtraightly vrged, to open this myſtery ſincerely and truely. Theeues haue no ordinary power to ſpoile houſes, that are well guarded, or rob men by the highway ſide, who are ſtrongly accompanied, but they haue oftentimes caſually power to doe both; as when they finde either houſes weakely prouided for, or men in their iourneys not ſufficiently furniſhed. And it was told this Examinate, that hee might haue the like cauſion in behalfe of the Pope, that then hee hath authority to depoſe kings, and deale with them, as in the Oath of Allegeance is prouided for to be preuented, when hee may haue power ſo to doe caſually, that is, when he may either by his owne forces, or by the forces of any other, or by any practiſes of his agents, ſecretly, or by any hap, or caſualty, when kings leaſt ſuſpect it, or are altogether vnprouided to reſiſt it, that then he may work or procure their vtter ruine and deſtruction. Which were to make the Pope the ſcholer of Machiauel, taking vpon him at ſome times to play the lion, and at other times to become a foxe, alwayes practiſing miſchieuouſly againſt thoſe Kings that offend him, as caſually he might be able to effect his deſignements, by praying vpon them or deuouring them.

106 Whereunto this Examinate anſwering ſaith, God forbid, God forbid, that euer he ſhould haue ſuch an imagination againſt his Maieſtie, or that euer he ſhould haue intended, by the word caſualiter, to haue ſought for ſuch an euaſion, as aboue is pretended: and beſides hopeth, that the Pope will neuer giue occaſion for any of his Maieſties ſubiects, to reſemble him either to a lion, or to a foxe; which this Examinate ſaith, vpon the occaſion giuen, hee could not omit to obſerue. But being heere preſſed to come to the point, as touching this word caſualiter; after ſome long debatement of ſundry particulars thereunto appertaining, which will appeare by his anſwers, he ſaith as followeth:

107 That hee muſt indeed confeſſe, the word caſualiter to bee diuerſly vſed by ſundry writers; and that ſome doe take it in that ſenſe, which might iuſtly beget the former obiection and collections. They which hold, that the Pope is the Lord of all temporalties throughout the world directly, doe affirme: that ſuch his authoritie and iuriſdiction is as really and actually inhering in his perſon, being Chriſts Vicar, as is his ſupremacie in cauſes Eccleſiaſticall: but yet the practiſe of it, they hold is but caſuall, out of S. Peters patrimony. And on the other ſide, as they which maintaine, that the Pope hath no authoritie in temporalibus directly, but indirectly, in ordine adſpiritualia, amongſt other phraſes, which they haue to expreſſe their minds, beſides indirectly, per accidens, and by a certaine conſequence, they likewiſe ſay, that he hath it incidently, ſecundùm quid, ſecundariò, per conſecutionem, and acceſſoriè: ſo when they ſpeake of the practiſe of that authoritie out of the bounds of S. Peters patrimony, they doe alſo vſe the word caſualiter. For the better manifeſtation of which particulars, this Examinate ſaith, he doth acknowledge that Celſus Mancinus, agreeing with the reſt who pleade for the Popes inherent authoritie, doth write thereof in this ſort:

108 The Popes Iuriſdiction (ſaith Mancinus) may be taken either for that, which hee hath poteſtate aut Celſ. Mancinus de iuribus principatuum. pag. 94. actu, potentially or actually, and actually in two ſorts, either ordinarily or caſually. If the authoritie, and Iuriſdiction of the Pope, be taken for that which hee hath poteſtate potentially, it extendeth it ſelfe ouer all the world: but if his actuall Iuriſdiction be taken, not ordinarily, but caſually, foraſmuch as it onely hath vſe in the Chriſtian world, it is ſaid to bee as great as the whole Christian world, and ordinarily as great as is S. Peters Patrimonie. Againe, ſpeaking of this Idem ibidem pag. 89. great and regall authoritie ſo inherent in the Pope, hee ſaith, it did lie hid in the firſt Biſhops of Rome in the Primitiue Church vntill the vineyard of the Lord had taken deepe roote, and that the ſpouſe of Chriſt, which at the firſt had no papps, became to bee of mature age, and that all that while, for the ſpace of 350. yeeres, the ſaid power did lie in Martyrdome, and blood, vntill afterwards the foundations were laid, and the walles were built vp, and that then the ſame began to ſhew it ſelfe in bleſſed Sylueſter and his Succeſſors. But withall he addeth, that the vſe and exerciſe of the Popes ſaid actuall and caſuall authoritie and iuriſdiction is not great in the Pope: That if we conſider the Idem ibidem. pag. 89. Popes care of ſpirituall things, he is ſo occupied in them, being heauenly matters, as hee can ſcarcely intende to thoſe things, that bee terreſtriall: That in Kings and Emperours the vſe of temporall power is more frequent; becauſe the matters that they deale in, are not heauenly, but terrene. Mary (ſaith hee) their ſwords notwithſtanding, Idem ibidem. pag. 98. and all their temporall power are at the Popes commaundement, in that hee is the Lord of the whole Chriſtian world, to whoſe iuriſdiction, all other iuriſdictions are ſubiect, and referred, as to the firſt fountaine, from whence they flow. And in another place likewiſe he ſaith, that the preſeruation both of particular and vniuerſall iuſtice belonging to the Popes Idem ibidem. pag. 105. & 106. office; for aſmuch as he cannot be attentiue to ſuch terrene affaires, leſt applying himſelfe to theſe ſmall matters, hee might leaue celeſtiall things vndone: hee dealeth in ſuch ſort with Emperours, Kings and Princes for his owne aſſiſtance, as Iethro taught Moſes, who following Iethroes counſell did appoint Iudges, to deale in temporall cauſes, that hee might more freely apply himſelfe to thoſe that were ſpirituall; he (the ſaid Pope) hauing notwithſtanding in himſelfe power and authoritie to correct the errours of ſuch Emperours, Idem ibidem. pag. 98. Kings and Princes, and to iudge of their exceſſes, as there ſhould bee cauſe. For (ſaieth Mancinus further) though Princes are free within their proper territories, Idem ibidem. pag. 120. and may freely vſe their power and authoritie: yet they haue their boundes and limits, which they muſt not paſſe, and there is a meane in the vſe of it, which they are bound to obſerue: but if they exceede their meaſure, and paſſe their line, then it is the part of Chriſts vicar, in whom is the top of both authorities, to take knowledge of their proceedings, and to remedie them: and that in matters of greater difficultie and weight, Appeales doe therefore lie from all Kings to the Pope; as when mens rights are ouerthrowen, they are to flie to the ſupreme Iudge, whoſe office is to iudge ſuch cauſes.

109 So as (this Examinate ſaith) hauing thus deliuered truely the effect and ſubſtance of Mancinus iudgement, touching this point ſet downe by him (the ſaid Mancinus) at large, and with great varietie, according to their opinions who concurre with him, concerning the Popes inherent authority, and iuriſdiction ouer all the world directly, in cauſes temporall: it doth appeare, what his and their conceit is of the caſuall practiſe of that great authority. And he confeſſeth it to be this in effect: viz: that Emperours and Kings holding their authority as from the Pope, they are to him as Moſes his Iudges and rulers were vnto him: and that therefore, when it happeneth, or falleth out caſualiter, that the Pope holdeth it fit to depoſe any King from his Crowne and kingdome; to abſolue his ſubiects from their Allegeance, to authorize them to beare armes againſt their King ſo depoſed, to command them vnder paine of Excommunication ſo to doe, in that being depoſed he is no more their King: or otherwiſe when hee holdeth it conuenient to correct and puniſh any other Kings for dealing vniuſtly with their ſubiects, vpon complaint made vnto him, as vnto the chiefe Iudge, if they perſiſt in ſo doing, he may ſo deale and proceede with them, euen as Moſes might haue done, vpon any complaint brought vnto him in ſome ſuch like caſes, againſt any of his Iudges and rulers deputed vnder him: And furthermore, that if a King ſo depoſed by the Pope, will needs keepe his Kingdome ſtill, if his ſubiects (notwithſtanding the Popes commandement to the contrary) will not be induced to beare armes againſt him, nor to withdraw their obedience from him, but will ſtill honour, obey, and ſerue him; or if other Kings will ſo far contemne the Popes authority, when vpon Appeales made vnto him, they doe perſiſt in oppreſsing their ſubiects, ſo as the Pope is driuen vpon their contempts, to take the like courſe with them: then in thoſe and the like caſes, ſaith Mancinus and others, the Pope being the higheſt Mancinus ibidem pag. 232. Biſhop, and Chriſts vicar, and gliſtering with regall dignitie, may without all doubt (if hee will) moue armes, proclaime warre, and excite men himſelfe to battaile; and it is alſo generally by theſe men held, that the Emperour, and all other Chriſtian Kings and Princes, are at the Popes commandement, and beck to draw their ſwords, and to vſe all their forces for the putting in execution of his ſaid Sentences, to the ſuppreſsing of the ſaid obſtinate Kings, and the transferring of their kingdomes vnto ſome others.

110 Here this Examinate being asked, what difference there was betwixt theſe mens opinions, who hold that the Pope may thus proceede with Kings and princes, by vertue of his authoritie in all temporall cauſes directly, but caſualiter; that is, in ſuch caſes as are aboue expreſſed, when caſually they happen: and the other ſide, who although they deny, that the Pope hath any ſuch authoritie directly; yet they affirme (as it hath beene oft aboue mentioned) that he hath power to depoſe kings and to transferre kingdomes in ordine ad ſpiritualia, indirectly, per accidens, by a certaine conſequence, incidently, ſecundùm quid, ſecundariò, per conſecutionem, acceſſorily, and caſualiter: that is, when ſuch occaſions are offered: hee this Examinate anſworeth, that he muſt needes confeſſe, there is no difference at all betwixt them, in reſpect of their iudgement, touching the lawfulneſſe of the Popes authoritie, to proceede caſualiter, as is aforeſaid, with ſuch obſtinate princes, but onely this, that the one part ſuppoſeth this authoritie to be inherent in the Pope, as hee is Chriſts vicar, which the other denyeth, but ſaith notwithſtanding, that he hath it, though not inherent in him, yet indirectly, & by a conſequence; becauſe all kings and princes when they are baptized, doe promiſe and vndertake incluſiuè, that they will for euer maintaine the Church, be obedient to the Pope, and at his commandement, for the ſuppreſsing of all ſuch perſons whoſoeuer, as ſhall oppoſe themſelues againſt the Catholicke faith. Inſomuch that Cardinall Bellarmine, Bell. de Rom. Pon. lib. 5. cap. 6. euen in the ſame Chap. where hee remembreth the Popes dealing in temporall cauſes incidenter & càſualiter, incidently and caſually, although he acknowledgeth, that the Pope, as hee is Pope, cannot ordinarily depoſe princes, euen for a iuſt cauſe; yet hee ſaith, that the Pope may change kingdomes, and take them from one and giue them to another, not as he is princeps Eccleſia politicus, but as hee is ſummus princeps ſpiritualis, when they hinder religion, & taking that courſe, which bringeth detriment to mens ſoules, will not otherwiſe be reclaimed.

111 Vpon this declaration made by this Examinate vpon ſuch apparant grounds and collections, as he could not denie, it was demanded of him, what his iudgement was, as touching the contents of it. Whereunto he anſwereth, that he hath elſwhere ſufficiently opened his mind in that behalfe, where he hath often ſaid, that in his iudgment the Pope iure diuino, hath no authoritie inherent in him, or not inherent directly or indirectly, whether it be termed ſpirituall or temporall, or a mixt authoritie, or howſoeuer it is, or may be called, to depoſe kings either for hereſie or Apoſtaſie, or for any other cauſe whatſoeuer, or to releaſe their ſubiects from their obedience, or to authorize them to beare armes againſt them, or to excommunicate the ſubiects of any ſuch kings that refuſe to enter into any ſuch diſobedient, rebellious, and traiterous courſes, but continue their faithfull and loyall ſubiects, notwithſtanding, hee ſhould tell them neuer ſo confidently, that ſuch their former kings, being by him depoſed, were no longer their kings, or any other allurements or perſwaſions whatſoeuer to the contrary. Whereunto this Examinate now addeth, that in his iudgement, it is a vaine conceit and repugnant to the Scripture, for any to affirme, that the Pope hath any power, authoritie, or iuriſdiction, either potentially or actually, ordinary or caſuall, to deale with kings or princes, or with their ſubiects, as is aboue mentioned, or to holde and maintaine, that kings and ſoueraigne princes haue their regall authoritie from the Pope, or that they are to him, as the rulers and Iudges amongſt the Iſraelites were to Moſes, or that hee hath any authoritie at all, as he is Chriſts vicar, and S. Peters ſucceſſour, to deale with kings and princes for any cauſe, or at any time, further then concerneth the health of their ſoules, and the maintenance of the Catholicke faith, by admonitions, perſwaſions, and good counſell: and (if thoſe will not ſerue) then by the ſpirituall cenſures of the Church, and by S. Peters keyes only; and not ſo neither, but when it is apparant, that ſuch ſpirituall cenſures may in deede and truely turne to edification, and not to deſtruction, and that they may be vſed without hurt or danger of Catholickes either in their bodies, goods, or liues. All further proceedings of the Pope with kings and ſoueraigne princes, as the chiefe paſtour of their ſoules, this Examinate ſaith, hee doeth vtterly diſlike, and prayeth from the bottome of his heart, that hereafter they may neuer be practiſed.

112 But heere this Examinate being put in mind of his own words aboue ſpecified, wher he acknowledged the Pope to haue caſualiter ſome authoritie in temporalibus, without the limits of S. Peters patrimonie, though the ſame were not inherent in him; and thereupon required to declare his meaning therein, he ſaith that he neither had nor hath any other meaning then this: that when any queſtions or controuerſies ariſe amongſt Kings, Princes, and ſuch other great perſons, as they cannot amongſt themſelues compound, but yet are contented to referre the deciſion or compounding of them vnto the Pope, (vnto whome they are all ſubiect in Spirituall matters) hee (the ſaid Pope) may lawfully, in this Examinates iudgement, vpon this occaſion, and ſo caſualiter intermedle and deale in the ſaid queſtions and controuerſies, and order them, for the eſtabliſhing of vnitie, friendſhip, and concord betwixt the ſaid parties, although the particulars ſo queſtioned, or controuerted, be meerely and altogether of temporall conuſance. And alſo this Examinate further ſaith, that the Pope may ſo deale (as he thinketh) when any King, Prince, or other great perſon will bee content, for the ſtrengthning of his owne purpoſes in ſome eſpeciall matter, to deſire the Popes approbation of it. For example, the King of Fraunce hauing left his former wife, and married another, had by her a Decretal. lib. 4. cap. 13 qui filij ſunt legitimi. ſonne and a daughter: and being, as it ſeemed, in doubt, that his ſonne after him might in that reſpect, receiue ſome preiudice in his Title to ſucceede him: he (the ſaid King) entreated the Pope, for the legitimation of his iſſue, whereunto hee yeelded: the deciding of any mans right or intereſt to a Kingdome, no wayes properly belonging to the Pope, but caſually, as here it hapned, when the King was contented to referre it vnto him, and might haue done it himſelfe, but that he thought when the Pope ioined with him, that which they did together would bee of greater force.

113 This will appeare more plainely by Innocentius his owne words in an other ſuite of the ſame nature made vnto him; where a Gentleman of Montpeliar, hauing likewiſe put away his wife, and married another, by whom he had children, Ibidem & in gloſſa. was encouraged, by the example of the King of France, to labour to the Pope, of the legitimating of his children in like ſort, quatenus eis natalium obiectio, ceu exceptio non noceret, quo minàs ſibi ſuccederent: that the exception againſt their birth might not hurt them, but that they ſhould bee his heires. But Innocentius denying his ſuite, amongſt ſome other reaſons, why hee ſo did, vſed theſe: that the King of Fraunce had no ſuperiour in his Kingdome in Temporall cauſes, but this Gentleman was a Subject: that the King of Fraunce might without any mans hurt, referre the ſaid matter to the Pope, which this Gentleman could not doe in his cauſe: that the King did neede the conſent of no man, for the approouing of that which the Pope had done on his behalfe; whereas if he the ſaid Innotentius ſhould legitimate this Gentlemans children, it would not availe him, without the aſsent of the King, or Lord his ſuperiour: that the King had power in that point to ſubmit himſelfe to the Popes iuriſdiction, which this Gentleman had not: and that the King might (in ſome mens opinions) of himſelfe haue legitimated his ſaid ſonne and daughter, without any aſsiſtance from the Pope. So as this Gentlemans cauſe was farre vnlike the Kings. Hereof Innocentius himſelfe did write to the ſaid Gentleman in this ſort: Inſuper cùm Rex ſuperiorem in temporalibus minimè Ibidem. Per venerabilem. & citatur à Bellar. de Rom. Pontif. lib. 5. cap. 3. recognoſcat, ſine iuris alterius loeſione, in eo ſe iuriſdictioni noſtrae ſubijcere potuit, in quo videretur aliquibus, quòdper ſeipſum (non tanquam pater cum filijs, ſed tanquam Princeps cum ſubditis) potuit diſpenſare: tuautem noſceris alijs ſubiacere, vnde ſine-ipſorum forſan iniuriâ, niſi praeſtarent nobis aſſenſum, in hoc ſubdere te non poſses: That is, Moreouer inaſmuch as the king doth acknowledge no ſuperious in temporall cauſes, hee might lawfully in that matter, without any mans preiudice, ſubmit himſelfe to our iuriſdiction, wherein (as ſome hold) he might by his owne authority, (not as a father with his children, but as a prince with his ſubiects) haue himſelfe diſpenſed but you are knowen to be ſubiect vnto others, and therefore without ſome iniury peraduenture vnto them, except they ſhould yeeld their aſſent, you cannot in this caſe ſubmit your ſelfe vnto vs: And this is that caſuall authoritie, (this Examinate ſaith) which he attributeth to the Pope, out of S. Peters patrimony, in other Princes kingdomes, for his dealing in thoſe cauſes that are temporall, and doe not otherwiſe belong vnto him, to intermedle with, as he is Chriſts Vicar, but as they are compromitted and referred vnto him.

114 It was here againe required of this Examinate, that he ſhould a little further open his mind in this point, whether in his iudgement, the ſubjects of any Chriſtian king may lawfully referre any temporall cauſes, eſpecially ſuch as either concerne the commonwealth, or their king, vnto the Popes determination, without the kings conſent; becauſe it is held by many (as it hath been formerly touched in part out of Mancinus) that they may; when otherwiſe they can receiue no ſuch ordinary courſe of Iuſtice, as they thinke they ought, or when they account it moſt expedient for the Commonwealth. To which purpoſe ſundry examples are alledged, and amongſt them this particularly, of the proceeding once in France, with their king. Hildericus king of France reigning (as it was thought) vnprofitably, and Pepinus in his gouernement vnder him, greatly contenting the Realme, the chiefe of the Nobilitie, in their deſire to remoue him, and aduance Pepinus vnto his place, being not ignorant, that if they could procure the Pope (who was then in theſe Weſterne parts of great reputation) to concurre therein with them, it would greatly ſurther their deſignement, and the better content, both the people, and the Clergie; did ſend an Embaſſage 1 • . Maior. diſi. 24. quaeſt. 2. 〈…〉 . to Pope Zachary, then Biſhop of Rome, deſiring to know of him, an ille deberet regnare, qui otio torpebat, an ille, qui aestum dieiportabat; whether he ought to reigne, who was altogether idle, or he that did indure the heate of the day. To whom the Pope anſwered: quòd poſterior regnare deberet, that the later ought to reigne. Whereupon the Nobilitie depoſed Hilderick, and created Pepinus their king.

115 Now foraſmuch as this example is commonly vſed for an argument, that the Pope may thus deale caſually, in temporalibus: and that thereupon it is ordinarily concluded, that the Pope by ſuch a caſualty may depoſe kings, and ſet vp others in their roomes: if hee this Examinate ſhould meane, that ſuch a reference, or compromitting of a cauſe to the Pope, by one ſide; without the aſſent of the other, (as it is not likely, that Hildericus was euer willing to commit to the Pope his title to the kingdom, whether he ſhould remaine king, or one of his ſubiects ſhould get it from him) were a lawfull occaſion offered, for the Pope to deale caſually in temporalibus, as an Arbitrator: that which hee hath before ſaid of his meaning, how the Pope might deale in ſuch like cauſes caſualiter, doeth croſſe that which formerly he hath deliuered, or rather indeed is flatly repugnant vnto it. And therefore he this Examinate was vrged to explicate this difficulty.

116 Whereunto for anſwere, he ſaith, That in his opinion, this was a needeleſſe doubt, in that his words before were plaine, when he deliuered the anſwere of Innocentius to the Gentleman of Montpeliar; hee this Examinate hauing neuer heard of ſuch a kind of compromitting a cauſe to any, by one part, without the conſent of the other: and that therefore he holdeth it, as vnlawfull for the Pope, in ſuch a kind of reference, as aboue is ſpecified, without the Kings conſent, to take any temporall cauſe into his hands, to be ordered by him, as it was for him to haue made legitimate the children of the ſaid gentleman (as is before mentioned) which Innocentius acknowledged he might not doe. And as touching the example alledged, for the depoſing of Hildericus, this Examinate further ſaith, that he concurreth in iudgement with Iohannes de Pariſijs, Io. Maior, Iacobus Almain, & Adam Blackwood, with diuers others, Blackwood apol pag. 201. & 202. who writing of that fact, ſay, that it was not lawfull: that the Pope did yeeld to an iniury, and was not ignorant, the example to be pernicious, ſo to let ſlacke the raines to the people for the changing of Scepters, and to preferre a ſtranger, with the iniury of their own lawfull king: that this fact (being ſingular) ought to obtaine no force of a law: that wee are to liue by lawes, and not by examples: that we ought not ſo much to regard what is done, as what ought to be done.

117 That the Nobility of France ſent to the Pope, becauſe the Vniuerſitie of Paris did not then Ioh. Maior in lib. 4. ſent. diſt. 24. apud Gerſonem. flouriſh; inſinuating that if it had, they had gone no further, but relied vpon their iudgement: that where it is ſaid, that Zacharie did depoſe Hildericke, it is thus to be vnderſtood, viz: that he was aliqua cauſa motiua, a certaine mouing cauſe, why the Noblemen of France depoſed him; that from ſuch particulars, quae ex deuotion ad Eccleſiam, & non debito juris fiunt, which are done of deuotion to the Church, and not by any right of law, nothing is to be drawen in conſequence, as neither from many other examples, where Emperours did chuſe the Biſhops of Rome; and likewiſe, that ſome Biſhops of Rome had beene depoſed by Emperors, and (as the Eccleſiaſticall hiſtorie reciteth,) many Biſhops did referre their complaints to Conſtantine, ex quibus nullum poteſt ſumi argumentum, from which examples no argument can be drawen.

118 That the Canon Alius, diſt. 15. q. 6. which Iacobus Almain de poteſt. Eccleſ. & laicâ. quaeſt. 2. cap. 8. Magna gloſſa Canon. Alius diſt. 15. q. 6. ſaith that Pope Zacharie depoſed the king of France, and placed Pepin the father of Charles in his roome, is thus to bee vnderſtood: Zacharias depoſuit Regem, id eſt, deponentibus conſenſit: Zacharie depoſed the king, that is, gaue his conſent to them that depoſed him: that then there was no Vniuerſity at Paris, the ſame beeing afterwardes erected in the dayes of Charles the great: and that thereupon there being few learned men in France, they had recourſe to the Pope, & ſic depoſuit, id eſt, conſenſit vti poſſent deponere, & ſic non depoſuit authoritatiuè, that ſo he depoſed Hildericke, that is, he gaue his conſent, that the Nobilitie of France might depoſe him, and that the Pope did not depoſe him by any authority.

119 That the Pope did neuer depoſe the king of Ioh. de Pariſiis de poteſt. regia & Papali. cap. 13. France, except that which Zacharie did, in the depoſition of Hildericus, may bee expounded depoſuit, id eſt, deponentibus conſenſit, ſicut exponit gloſſa: Zacharie depoſed the King, that is, hee gaue his conſent to thoſe that did depoſe him, as the gloſſe doth expound it: that from ſuch ſingular facts of deuotion to the Church or to the perſon, or of fauour, or for ſome other cauſe, and not in right of law, arguments may not bee made: that whereas it is read in histories that Boniface obtained of Phocas the Emperour, that the Church of Rome ſhould be the head of all Churches, becauſe the Church of Conſtantinople did write herſelfe ſo; it might bee collected by ſuch a like argument, that it appertained to the Emperour to transferre the primacie of one Church to another: as likewiſe, whereas Iſidore ſaith, that Conſtantine the Emperour did decree that the See of Rome ſhould hold the principalitie ouer the foure chiefe Sees, Antioch, Alexandria, Conſtantinople, and Hieruſalem: God forbid, that thereupon we ſhould ſay, that the Church of Rome hath her Primacy ouer Churches, and the diſpoſition of them, from Emperours. So as, this Examinate ſaith, that which was done, as touching the depoſition of Hildericke the king of France, doth no way alter his opinion before ſhewed touching the Popes authoritie in temporalibus caſualiter; when they are lawfully referred vnto him, as in the Sect. 113. he hath ſpecified.

120 Here this Examinate was put in minde of certaine wordes of his, in the ſaid 113. Section; where ſaying that the Pope, as hee is Chriſts vicar, could not otherwiſe deale in temporalibus caſualiter, then as here he hath ſaid: he ſeemeth to inſinuate, that in ſome other reſpect hee might deale in temporall cauſes with Kings, for the depoſing of them, and proceeding with their ſubiects, as hath bene before diuers times mentioned. And the rather it ſo ſeemeth, in that he hauing before cited out of Mancinus, how the Pope hath authoritie to proclaime warre, and ſo become a man at armes, did let that point paſſe him without anſwere vnto it.

121 For ſatisfaction whereof, this Examinate ſaith, that in his iudgement, it is as lawfull for the Pope to make warre within his own Territories, which he holdeth as a Temporall Prince, when he is driuen thereunto, through the diſobedience of his ſubiects, or in their defence againſt other Princes, as it is for any King or ciuill State ſo to doe, vpon ſuch or the like occaſions: and that Iacobus Gretzerus ſaith well (if this Examinate doth rightly vnderſtand him) to this purpoſe, and to the iuſtification of all in effect, which this Examinate hath ſet downe, throughout the whole courſe of this his Examination, touching his deniall of the Popes authoritie (either directly, as he is Pope, or indirectly in ordine ad ſpiritualia, as he is Summus Princeps ſpiritualis, the Supreme ſpirituall Prince) to depoſe Kings, and releaſe their ſubiects from the oathes of their allegeance, &c. where he writeth in this ſort: Cogit Pontifex Romanus poenis externis ſpiritualibus, vt Excommunicatione: Gretzerus defenſ. controuerſ. Bellar. colum. 1404. item poenis externis temporalibus, & corporalibus, quà & ipſe est Princeps politicus, & quà Principum politicorum opem implorare potest, vt haereticorum petulantiam & licentiam poenis temporalibus compeſcant: that is, That the Biſhop of Rome hath authoritie to compell men by outward ſpirituall puniſhments, as by Excommunication, and alſo by outward temporal and corporal puniſhments, as he is himſelfe a ciuill Prince, and as he may implore the aſsiſtance of other ciuill Princes, that they may repreſſe by temporall puniſhments the wantonneſſe and liberty of heretikes.

122 And this Examinate alſo further ſaieth, that for ought he can Iudge, whereas ſome exceptions were taken to the Popes ſending of certaine ſmall forces into Ireland, about the yeere 1580. to aſsiſt the Earle of Deſmond: Cardinall Allen in anſwere of them doth politically iuſtifie that his fact, where hee writeth in this manner: The chiefe Biſhops of Chriſts Church, our ſupreme Paſtors in earth, by Gods prouidence, and by the graunts of Card. Allens anſwere to the Engliſh Iuſtice. pag. 144. our firſt moſt Chriſtian Emperours and Kings, and by the humble and zealous deuotion of the faithfull Princes and people afterwards, haue their temporall ſtates, dominions, and patrimonies, whereby they moſt iustly holde and poſſeſse the ſame, and are thereby lawfull Princes temporall, and may most rightfully by their Soueraigntie make warres, in their owne and other mens iust quarrell, as occaſion ſhall vrge them there vnto.

123 By reaſon of diuers particulars deliuered by this Examinate in this his anſwere to the laſt doubt propounded vnto him, it was firſt demanded of him, whether in his iudgement the Pope hath authority to command any king, being held for a Catholicke, to take armes againſt any his neighbour kings, deemed by him for heretickes, for the ſuppreſsing of them by temporall coertions, when the Pope ſhall iudge it fit: becauſe it might ſeeme very ſtrange for any man to conceiue, that Chriſt euer gaue to S. Peter any iuriſdiction, authoritie, or power, in fauour of religion, to ſet kings together by the eares. It might haue ſome probabilitie, that if a king, who diſalloweth of the Popes ſupremacie, and of many other corrupt points of popiſh doctrine, ſhould ſend his forces into any other temporall princes dominions, to make warres, of purpoſe to aboliſh the Popes authoritie, and plant there the reformed religion by him profeſſed; then in this caſe, the Pope might ſollicite ſome other kings adioyning, to oppoſe them ſelues & make warres againſt him. But to imagine, that when a King proceedeth no further, then to order matters in his owne kingdome, by the aduiſe of the States thereof both Eccleſiaſticall and Temporall, as it ſhalbe iudged by him and them moſt expedient: any Biſhop or Spirituall perſon whoſoeuer may take vpon him to proclaime or excite warre, and thruſt other kings to aſſaile him by force in his owne kingdome and countrey: euery ſuch conceit wanteth authoritie in the new Teſtament, and hath no example for many yeeres in the pureſt and beſt times of the Church, and beſides it is repugnant to that which this Examinate hath before deliuered. For kingdomes being neither founded vpon faith nor grace, how can they be ſhaken, vnder pretence that either of them is impugned? Chriſtianitie may well be thought to binde a king, who reckoneth himſelfe ſubiect to the Biſhop of Rome in ſpirituall cauſes, in them to ſubmit him ſelfe vnto him: but to command him to make warre, and thereby hazard peraduenture his owne kingdome, or ſpend the blood either of his owne Subiects, or of the ſubiects of any other Chriſtian King, when the Pope thinketh good; is a very bloodie and an vnchriſtian opinion.

124 Vnto this queſtion and the parts thereof, this Examinate ſaith, that he beleeueth, that all Chriſtian Kings and Princes are bound to doe, what they can for the maintenance of the Catholicke faith, (whether the Pope doeth require them ſo to doe, or not) againſt any that doe endeauour to ſuppreſſe it. But he holdeth that ſuch their duetie bindeth them no further, then ſo to maintaine religion within their owne kingdoms, if need be, and not to make warre in that reſpect againſt any, who doe containe themſelues and their proceedings aforeſaid, within their owne bounds, and doe not ſeeke by force to ſuppreſſe, in any other Countries, that are adiacent vnto them, the Religion there eſtabliſhed, otherwiſe then in his owne. But withall he addeth, that he holdeth it to be the duetie of all ſuch Catholike kings, to do what they can with any King auerſe from the Pope, for the winning of him vnto his Holineſſe by perſwaſion, and by euery other good meanes: but in no wiſe by the ſword, or by ſolliciting his Subiects to rebellion, or to make a part of his owne Kingdome againſt him, or otherwiſe to endanger his Perſon, Crowne, or State. Beſides, for as much as (this Examinate ſaith) he beleeueth, that the Pope hath no inherent authoritie in himſelfe in temporalibus, out of S. Peters patrimonie, and that the regall authoritie is not deriued from the Pope, or held immediatly of him; hee doeth not find, how the Pope, as he is either a Spirituall, or a ciuill Prince, hath authoritie to command the ſword of any Kings otherwiſe then by entreatie, and in the caſes by him this Examinate aboue ſpecified; or that they are bound by force of their Baptiſme, to obey him, if ſo he doe command them.

125 Secondly, were it granted to this Examinate, that the Pope, as a Ciuill Prince, might lawfully haue ſent his forces into Ireland as is aforeſaid, and denounce warre when he thinketh it expedient, againſt any King, as Cardinall Allen hath written: yet it is fit, that this Examinate ſhould open himſelfe in his dutie to his Maieſtie, whether in his iudgement, when the Pope will needes take vpon him to play the temporall Prince, and become a warriour, hee holdeth it to bee at ſuch times more lawfull, and agreeable to the Scriptures, either for the Pope, or for any of his inſtruments, to perſwade the Subiects of any King, with whom hee contendeth, that becauſe hee is a Proteſtant (as that generall name is growen in vſe) and denieth the Popes ſupremacie, and embraceth the Religion reformed, and purged of ſundry groſſe errours, and points of ſuperſtition, and is thereupon either by name, or in generall termes by vertue of ſome other Buls, Excommunicated, or becauſe he ſeeketh to alter the ancient Religion, which formerly they, or their forefathers did profeſſe, therefore it is lawfull for them, nay, that they are bound in conſcience to renounce their obedience vnto him, and to aſsiſt the Popes forces: then it is lawfull for the Emperour, or ſome other Kings (whoſe predeceſſours had made the Pope a Ciuil prince, by beſtowing vpon him ſo large poſſeſsions) when they haue reſolued of a warlike courſe againſt him, to perſwade his Subiects, and authorize them, to ioyne with them, and to beare armes againſt him, vpon theſe or any other ſuch like ſuggeſtions, viz: that the Pope abuſed his place, and behaued himſelfe otherwiſe, then of ancient times his predeceſſours had done: that it was neuer the meaning either of their former renowmed Emperours, or of any other Kings, or of the moſt famous Romanes, and Italians their Noble progenitors (who once gouerned the chiefeſt part of the world) that thereby he ſhould take courage, and boldneſſe to encounter (as hee did) with them their ſucceſſours, or to tyrannize, as his cuſtome was, ouer them his pretended Subiects, and ouer their ſometimes ſo glorious a Citie: and that therefore, if they would ioyne their forces with theirs, they would reſtore them vnto their ancient honours and libertie.

126 To this queſtion this Examinate ſaith, that it is a point of State, how and when Princes may make warres, but he is ſure, that they ought not ſo to doe, except the cauſe be iuſt. Againe he cōfeſſeth, that as ſome hold, the Pope may depoſe no ſecular Prince, though he abuſe his authoritie in perniciem Chriſtianitatis & fidei, to the deſtruction Iacob. Almain de potest. Eccleſiasticâ & Laicâ. Quaest. 1. cap. 9. of Chriſtianitie or of the faith: but may onely declare him worthy to be depoſed, and therefore forbid his ſubiects vnder paine of Excommunicatiō, to performe any dutie vnto him, wherby in effect hee looſeth his kingdome, when no man doth regard him: ſo they doe thinke, that in the ſame ſort, if the Pope doe abuſe his authoritie, Idem ibidem. Quaest 2. cap. 8. in detrimentum Reipublicae, to the detriment of the Common wealth, the Emperour may depoſe him, vnder paine of confiſcation of all his temporall goods, which hee holdeth of the Emperour, and of the king as a vaſſall: and that by vertue of ſuch a Sentence giuen by the Emperour, they to whom it appertaineth, ſhall in the end bee compelled, to remoue him from his authoritie of the high Biſhopricke. But of theſe and ſuch like points, this Examinate ſaith he wil not take vpon him to iudge: onely hee acknowledgeth that ſo farre, as his reading and learning ſtretcheth, hee doth in his conſcience verily beleeue, touching the ſaid queſtion to him propounded, as here enſueth.

127 That neither the Pope hath any authoritie to depoſe the Emperour, nor the Emperour to depoſe the Pope: they may deale one with another, for reforming of abuſes, but they ought not to proceede to ſuch extremities: that as hee hath before oftentimes ſaid, that the Pope hath no authority at all by any waies or meanes whatſoeuer, giuen vnto him Iure diuino, to depoſe any Proteſtant king, or Soueraigne Prince, nor to abſolue his ſubiects from their Allegeance, nor to authorize them, or command them, to beare armes againſt him: ſo neither may hee lawfully, when he commeth or ſendeth, as a Ciuill Prince, his forces and men of warre, to aſſaile any ſuch king in his owne Countrey (though he take that courſe in defence of Religion) ſeeke to perſwade the ſubiects of ſuch a King, to rebell againſt him, by ioyning their forces with the Popes; or if hee or any of his inſtruments ſo doe, ſuggeſting, that otherwiſe they ſhall incurre the Popes curſe, yet they the ſaid ſubiects ought not to regard it, but remaine ſtill as firmely bound, to obey their King, and take part with him, as if the Pope had neuer conceiued any diſpleaſure againſt him.

128 That therefore hee muſt needs confeſſe, the poſitions following to be very vnſound, and repugnant vnto the Scriptures, and the ancient Catholicke doctrine, which is alwaies to be preferred, before mens new deuiſes, be they for their learning and places, neuer ſo eminent in the Church.

129 It is godly and honourable to fight in ſuch order Card. Allen. a True defence. pag. 103. and time, as we are warranted in conſcience, and law by our Supreme Paſtours and Prieſts.

130 In warres, that may at any times happen for religion, Card. Allen. letter to Stanley. pag. 37. euery Catholike man is bound in conſcience, to employ his perſon and forces, by direction of ſuch as are vertuous & intelligent in ſuch caſes, but eſpecially, &c. of Chriſts Vicar in earth, whoſe ſoueraigne power and authoritie &c. may beſt inſtruct and warrant a Chriſtian Souldier, how farre, when, and where, either at home, or abroade, in ciuill or forreine warres, made againſt the enemies or rebels of Gods Church, he may and muſt breake with his temporall Soueraigne.

131 Furthermore this Examinate ſaith, that he cannot chuſe, but confeſſe from his heart, that he doeth diſlike and diſallow all the Arguments, Card. Allens Admonition to the Nobilitie of England. publiſhed in a booke about the yeere 1588. Which did tend to perſwade the late Queenes ſubiects to take part with the forces of the king of Spaine, becauſe ſhe was depoſed by the Popes Sentence, and in ſome other reſpects therein mentioned: and likewiſe all the perſwaſions and reſolutions, which were ſent into Ireland during the late rebellion of the Earle of Tyrone, either from Salamanca, or from any place elſe, tending to the ſame purpoſe with the former: for example.

132 That the late Queene being depoſed, and her D. Iohn D'Aquila his Proclamation. Subiects abſolued from the oath of their fidelitie, by the higheſt Biſhop, vnto whom hee that reigneth in the higheſt, the King of kings had giuen all power, to plucke vp, deſtroy, plant, and edifie, ita vt ipſos Reges temporales, ſi ad ſpirituale aedificium expedierit, vſ que ad depoſitionem à Regno puniat, ſo as he may puniſh temporall kings, if it be auaileable to ſpirituall edification, be it to the depoſition from their kingdomes: the Iriſh were bound by the commandements of God, and the obedience which they did owe to the higheſt Biſhop, to toyne with Don Iohn D'Aquila, ſent thithey from the King of Spaine by the Popes intreatie.

133 That for aſmuch as the Biſhop of Rome had Ibidem. now procured forces to be ſent vnto them (the Iriſh) for the defence of their faith, they ſhould all vpon notice of the ſaid Don Iohns proclamation, with all their power come vnto him: and that he would proſecute to death as heretiques and hatefull enemies to the Church all thoſe, who contemning his counſell, ſhould continue their obedience vnto the Engliſh.

134 That it was lawfull for the Biſhop of Rome, Determinat. Salaman • . 1602. by force of armes to puniſh thoſe, who doe oppugne the Catholtcke faith: that the warre vndertaken by Tyrone, authoritate ſummi Pontificis, by the Popes authoritie, againſt the late Queene, that oppugned the Catholicke faith, was iuſt: and that all the Catholicks were bound to ioyne with him, with a great merit and hope of the greateſt eternall retribution: that they deſerued as much thereby, as if they bare armes againſt the Turke: that all thoſe Catholickes did ſinne mortally, that did follow the tents of the Engliſh against Tyrone: that they could neuer obtaine euerlaſting ſaluation, nor bee abſolued from their ſinnes by any Priest, except they did firſt repent, and forſake the Engliſh: that the ſame iudgement likewiſe was to bee giuen of them, who in that warre did fauour the Engliſh with armes, and prouiſion, paid their ancient tributes, or did contribute any thing vnto them: and that they, who folowed Tyrone, were no rebels, nor denied any obedience, that was due, nor did vſurpe vniuſtly the landes of the Queene, but did rather by a moſt iuſt warre, free their Countrey from a wicked Tyrant, and defend the Catholicke faith, as it became Chriſtians and Catholickes.

135 With the conſideration of theſe things, this Examinate ſaith, his very heart is wounded, finding ſuch ſtrength of wit, & pretences of religion ſo intolerably abuſed to the effuſiō of blood, and for priuate reſpects, ſuch as in his conſcience, God doth not allow, nor the doctrine of the Catholicke Church (agreed vpon) doth approoue. And he is the more moued herewith, (he auoweth) partly becauſe ſo many worthy Engliſh writers haue of later yeeres, runne into this violent courſe, labouring to vpholde it with all their ſtrength and abilitie of learning: and partly for that hee feareth (except it may pleaſe God, to moue the Popes heart, for the ſtaying of it) what iſſue it will haue in the end Sanguis petit ſanguinem: blood will haue blood. The Church did encreaſe by the ſuffrings of Martyrs: but it may perhaps decreaſe, by ſeeking of blood. That hitherto was neuer accounted the ſeede of the Church. And touching the reaſons from Spaine, carry what colour they ſhall, yet neuer was it heard of before (for ought this Examinate hath read) that the ſubiects of any King might not aſſiſt their Soueraigne in his warres without the Popes allowance. And beſides, it is not likely, that the king of Spaine will in his princely iudgement approue, that as D. Iohn D'aquila ſaith, the Pope may depoſe any king from his Crowne, if it be expedient for the Church. If the Iriſh had not engaged themſelues too farre in the rebellion then on foote, before this Spaniſh Generall his Proclamation, they could neuer out of doubt haue bene much moued with it. It was the conquering of the Kingdome for his Maſter, that he aimed at; or otherwiſe, their faith for him might haue lien in the duſt. Kings haue their owne ends in ſuch caſes, and not the Popes. Neither was the determination of Salamanca of any greater weight. The authors of it ſought to promote their Soueraignes affaires, as if they had bene better Stateſmen, then Diuines. For it will hardly appeare either in the Scriptures, or in any ancient Father or Councel, that ſubiects did euer merite heauen, by bearing of armes againſt their Soueraignes.

136 Here this Examinate was further put in minde of the charge, which is impoſed vpon the Romiſh prieſts, now (as it ſeemeth) vnder his gouernement, how they are to proceede for the aduancement of the Catholicke faith. Thus hereof diuers haue written, being men of great eſtimation.

137 The zeale and duetie of Gods Prieſts is notably Card. Allen Admon. pag. 32. & 33. commended vnto vs in the cauſe of Athalia, &c. whom Ichoiada the high Prieſt, calling vnto him forces both of the Priests and people, cauſed to be ſlaine: loe this is the Zeale and authoritie of Prieſts, for the maintenance of righteouſneſſe and religion.

138 Prieſts and Prophets haue bene principall workers Idem ibidem pag. 34. and Gods miniſters in the depriuation of princes: wherein the Prophet Elie was ſo notorious, that to his honour it is thus ſaide of him in holy writ: Hee caſt downe kings and deſtroyed them: and of Elizeus in the ſame place, thus: He neuer feared prince, nor could of no man be ouercome. And thus it was in the old Teſtament.

139 That in the new Teſtament the Prieſtes haue Idem ibidem pag. 34. & 35. much more ſoueraigne authoritie, and the prince, farre ſtreighter charge to obey, loue, and cheriſh the Church: that now euery kingdome that doeth not ſerue her, ſhall periſh: and that now Prelats haue authoritie to forbid vs the companie of heretiques, idolaters, blaſphemers, and not ſo much as to ſalute them, much more not to obey them.

140 That when by the impietie of the prince, the Stapleton alias Roſſaeus de iustâ Reipub. Christianae authoritate, &c. pag. 638. ſtate of religion, and of the Church is brought into danger: then it is the duetie of godly men, and Monkes, peragrare ciuitates &c. to goe from citie to citie, and from prouince to prouince, to admoniſh, exhort, and ſollicite all Chriſtian men to that manly conſtancie and fortitude, which doeth not onely conſiſt in wordes, but in deeds, and to preach, that all oathes and couenants made vnto kings againſt the Catholicke faith, are of no force, nor ought to be obſerued by a Chriſtian man.

141 That Prieſts ought to bee the firſt, that muſt Will. Raynolds de iustâ abdicatione, Henr. 3. pag. 57. & 58. leaue the oppreſſour of religion, and become therein an example vnto others: that ſo Iehoiada the Prieſt, arming the Leuites in the Temple againſt Athalia, gaue vnto the Centurions, lances, ſhields, and the targets of king Dauid; and placing without the Temple the people with daggers, commaunded her to bee ſlaine: that Elie the Prophet did kill 450. falſe prophets, whether the king and Queene would or not: that Azarias the prieſt with 80. prieſts valiant men did reſiſt Oziah then king, the vſurper of the ſacred miniſterie; and firſt thruſt him out of the Temple, being made a leper, and then out of his kingdome: that the Maccabees, men of the prieſtly ſtocke, valiantly fighting againſt tyrants for the law of God, haue long ſince giuen a worthy and a notable example vnto prieſts and Chriſtian preachers, of exciting men to warre and armes againſt tyrants to religion, whether domeſticall or forreigne.

142 And in another place, the ſaide Stapleton: Stapleton aliâs Roſſaeus lib. citato pag. 579. Are Biſhops (ſaith he) bound to inſtruct ſuch as are committed to their charge, that they ſhould refraine from the conuerſation of an hereticall king; that they ought not to aſsiſt him, either in warre, or peace; that all men, being ignorant, yea, idiots ought to learne to reaſon after this ſort, Such a man is an heretique, and therefore he hath no power ouer vs that bee Catholiques: and are not noble men likewiſe bound, to inſtruct their ſeruants that they ought to reſiſt ſuch an heretique, now no king, as hee who hath no right to his kingdome, but a tyrant, or a thiefe iniuſtly vſurping dominion ouer them? Doeth the holy Ghoſt teach vs, that the hate of an heretique is to bee offered vnto God for a great ſacrifice, and that we are to auoid him as a canker; and yet ſhall it be held vnlawfull to reſiſt that canker, which endeuoureth to corrupt vs, and to repell his force from vs with our ſwords, who are commanded to cut off our owne fleſh, if it be infected with ſuch a canker?

143 Vpon the hearing of theſe particulars: Alas, Alas (quoth this Examinate) what meane you to increaſe my ſorrow? I haue ſaid enough before to ſhew you, how much I doe deteſt theſe kinde of poſitions, as being infected, if not with a canker, yet with many vntrueths. The examples in them are ſtrangely wreſted, and doe not proue that which is intended by them. God himſelfe, & not Samuel did appoint, that Dauid ſhould ſucceed king Saul: but it was farre from both their intentions, that Saul ſhould be depoſed: and ſo he continued king, as long as he liued. Iehoiada the high Prieſt tooke part with the kings ſonne, the heire apparant to the Crowne, wherein he dealt as a dutifull ſubiect, and as all Prieſts and ſubiects ought to deale in the like caſe. And what kings did the Prophet Elie caſt downe and deſtroy? He ſaid vnto Achab, as a Prophet inſpired Lyra ſuper 48. Eccleſiastici. with knowledge, of things to come, that in the place where dogs licked vp the blood of Naboth, they ſhould licke vp his blood alſo. And in like ſort vnto Ochozia; becauſe thou haſt ſent meſſengers to aske counſell of Belzebub, the god of Acharon, therefore thou ſhalt not deſcend from the bed, wherupon thou lieſt, but ſhalt die. Thus Lyra doth expound thoſe words: and Hugo Cardinalis alſo to the ſame effect, Cardinalis in eundem locum. ſaying: Thou didſt caſt downe kings (i) deijciendos praedixiſti: thou didſt foretell they ſhould bee caſt downe; Adperniciem (i) propter perniciem ſuam: for their wickednes: Et fregiſti facilè potentiam ipſorum, and thou didſt eaſily breake their power, that is, confringendam praedixisti, thou didſt foretell their power ſhould bee broken. And in like ſort, both of them doe expound the words, touching Elizeus, how being a Prophet, hee was not afraid of Iehoſhaphat, the king of Iuda, to doe the meſſage of God vnto him, nor of the meſſengers of the king of Aſſyria, that came to apprehend him. The prophets that were ſlaine, were conuicted miraculouſly from heauen, to bee falſe prophets: and thereupon through Elias motion, which was agreeable to the law of God, the people with the Kings conſent (for otherwiſe it is more then probable he might haue withſtood it) did kill them. Whereas therefore it is ſaid that Elias ſlew them: Lyra ſaith, that he did it per populum ſibi in hoc aſsiſtentem, by the people therein aſſiſting him; adding therewith, fortè occîdit aliquos manu propriâ, peraduenture he ſlew ſome of them with his owne hands. But that is but a geſſe: and peraduenture he did not. And touching Azarias, Genebrard. Chronol. de Azarià. being about the 27. yeere of his reigne ſtrucken with leproſie, he liued apart out of Ieruſalem, according to the law. But yet hee continued king 25. yeeres after, the text it ſelfe making mention of the 38. 39. 50. and 52. yeres, wherein he is ſaid to reigne as king of Iuda, though by reaſon of his diſeaſe Ioathan his ſonne gouerned his palace, and the whole land vnder him: the yeeres of whoſe reigne afterwards began not to bee reckoned, till his father was dead; and then being (as Theodoret obſerueth) haeres regni, the heire of the Theodoret. in lib. 4. Reg. kingdome, he did ſucceed his father, and reigned 16. yeeres. And concerning the Maccabees, they were in their times great princes, and fought valiantly both for God and their countrey, againſt certaine neighbour kings, eſpecially of Egypt and Aſsyria, who did mightily trouble and afflict the whole land of Canaan, as all true hearted Engliſh men were to doe, if any king or prince vpon any pretence whatſoeuer, ſhould attempt by force to ſubdue his Maieſtie, and his dominions, thereby to bring them into ſeruitude and ſlauerie.

144 Alſo for the new Teſtament (this Examinate ſaith) though the Prieſthood cannot be too much magnified (as the humours of men are now adayes) neuertheleſſe it hath no ſuch bloudie courſes annexed vnto it, as the ſaid authours (otherwiſe very worthy perſons in their times) doe pretend. Chriſt indeed, and ſo alſo his Apoſtles went from place to place, from citie to citie, and from countrey to countrey, preaching and planting the true Catholicke faith, which containeth the doctrine of obedience to Kings and Soueraigne Magiſtrates. And where there was one Chriſtian then, if there had bene a thouſand, and ſo proportionably for euery one; neither Chriſt, nor any of his Apoſtles would haue moued them to any armes, or diſobedience againſt the ciuill Magiſtrates, although they were at that time very great perſecutors, and impugners of the Goſpel. The like may alſo be ſaid for the ages ſucceeding: when ſuch going from place to place, and preaching, as doctor Stapleton ſpeaketh of, would of a certeintie haue beene vtterly condemned. And how glad (ſaith hee this Examinate) ſhould I haue beene, if theſe kindes of poſitions, now vrged vpon me, had beene left to Buchananus and ſuch of his followers, as haue runne that race? And therefore he humbly deſired, that he might be no further troubled with theſe vncatholicke and bloudie nouelties, the ſame being moſt repugnant to the duety and office of a true Catholicke prieſt: and the rather, becauſe his intermedling ſo much with them (though hee could not wel chooſe, except he ſhould haue ſpoken againſt his conſcience) doeth tend more (he feareth) to his particular diſcredite, then (as many men doe now ſtand affected) to any ſuch religious vſe or edification, as this Examinate wiſheth, that all his words and workes might euer effect, and attaine vnto.

145 Here it being held conuenient to demand of him this Examinate, whether he thought, that vpon the occaſion offered vnto him, and charge laid vpon him in his Maieſties name, to deliuer his conſcience and iudgement, as well in theſe laſt points propounded vnto him, as likewiſe in all the premiſſes of this his Examination, hee ſhould by the diſcharging of his duety therein, grow to any diſcredite either with prieſts, or Lay Catholickes: and not rather, that if all he had deliuered ſhould happen to be publiſhed, it would procure him more fauour, and greater reputation with them: he anſwereth, that of the laſt point (the increaſe of his credite) he hath ſmall hope, and that he hath alreadie felt ſome experience of the former, in that there being but a ſuſpicion alreadie caſt abroad, that he continueth in the iuſtification of the lawfulneſſe to take the oath of Allegeance, the very conceit of it, before they be acquainted with that which hee hath ſaid in this his Examination, doeth much offend many, as hee hath beene informed, and as in his priuate eſtate he doeth very ſenſibly feele. Neither can he (as he ſaith) expect from them any thing elſe, but diſcontentment, and grudging againſt him, whiles the Popes Briefes procured by ſurreption and falſe ſuggeſtions (as hee thinketh in his conſcience) doe preuaile ſo much with them, or vntill it ſhall pleaſe God to abate the heate of ſome ſpirits, and repleniſh all their hearts with true knowledge in theſe matters, and with greater humilitie and patience, then now he ſaith he can well boaſt of.

146 Laſtly, foraſmuch as it is moſt euident to his Maieſtie, and the State, viz: how the Catholickes in England doe now ſtand affected: how they do generally diſlike the oath of Allegeance: how of late fewe of the Laitie (in reſpect of the multitude) will yeeld to take it: how ſince the Popes Breues came ouer, the prieſts, all of them almoſt doe impugne it, and diſſwade all Catholickes from taking of it; and how they labour and trauaile hither and thither, preaching and teaching, that the Pope hath authoritie to depoſe his Maieſtie, to abſolue his ſubiects from their oathes of Allegeance, to authorize them thereupon to beare armes againſt him, and to machinate all the miſchiefe they can againſt his State and Perſon: that although his Maieſtie be not excommunicated by name, yet (by their doctrine) hee ſtandeth excommunicate in generall termes by ſundry Bulles, in that hee alloweth not of the Popes Supremacie, &c. and that therefore, if opportunitie ſerue, they may ſet on foote any wicked deſignement againſt him: And furthermore, how when they profeſſe obedience vpon any occaſion, it is but diſſembled, and doth bind them no longer, but vntill they ſhallbe able, by reaſon of their numbers and ſtrength, to encounter his Maieſtie, without any great daunger to themſelues: How there are many youthes daily ſent ouer beyond the ſeas to become Prieſts, and being Prieſts, are euery yere ſent backe hither, of purpoſe to increaſe the number and ſtrength of the ſaid Catholickes: And how all ſuch Prieſts, by vertue of their office, are bound to draw as many as they can, from their Allegeance to the King, and vpon euery fit occaſion to ſtirre vp his ſubiects to mutinie and rebellion, as is aboue mentioned: Foraſmuch (it was ſaid) as theſe points and many other ſuch like are very euident and manifeſt: it was earneſtly demaunded of this Examinate, hee being a man of yeeres; mature iudgement, and good diſcretion, as hee was reputed by the Pope himſelfe (it ſeemeth) and many others, when he was made Archprieſt of England, and an Apoſtolicall protonotarie, what courſe in his wiſedome and conſcience, he thinketh fit his Maieſtie, and the State ſhould holde, being reſolued in religion as they are, to withſtand thoſe euils, which of neceſsitie in time muſt enſue, except either by puniſhments they be out of hand preuented, or that the Pope doe himſelfe reclaime both Prieſts and Catholicks from ſuch inordinate, tumultuous, and traiterous courſes, giuing them libertie, ſo as they reteine ſtill their opinions of his pretended Supremacie in ſpirituall cauſes, to take the othe of Allegeance, that thereby they may ſecure his Maieſtie and the State, of their obedience, dutie, and fidelitie both towards him, in all cauſes and matters temporall, and towards their natiue Countrey.

147 Vnto all which particulars, this Examinate anſwereth, that this is a matter farre aboue his reach: that he knoweth his Maieſtie to be a King endowed with many ſingular vertues, amongſt the which his mercie and clemencie are very eminent: that his Maieſtie and the State are exceeding prouident to preuent all dangers: that the number of Prieſtes is nothing, if it bee compared to the number of Miniſters, which are, and ſo will continue here in England; that there is no likelihood, that ſo few Prieſts in reſpect of the ſaid Miniſters ſhould euer bee able to draw ſo many to the Pope, as they haue power and meanes to withhold men from him: that hee hopeth, if euer the Pope may be truely informed of the State of England, hee will inforce all Catholickes, to holde a dutifull temper towards their Prince: that it may be, that in ſhort time the heate of all diſordered inuentions will bee quenched: that although men of youth and vigour delighting in nouelties, are likely enough to continue a while heady; yet hee hath ſome hope, that the grauer ſort will haue recourſe to the ancient practiſe of the ſincereſt Catholickes: that generally all the Catholickes in England, howſoeuer they are ſcrupulous in conſcience, and may be a litle miſlead, haue ſincere & true hearts, vnto his Maieſtie, and their Countrey: that he doubteth not, but theſe deuiſes, and phraſes of depoſing of Kings, and exciting of Subiectes to Rebellion, will grow both verbally and really out of vſe, and bee forgotten: that this Examinate, as long as hee continueth Archprieſt, will for his part, doe the vttermoſt of his power what hee can, to moue all Catholickes to continue their obedience, and duetie towardes his Maieſtie, and not to giue eare to any thing that may tend to the contrary: that doing what he is able, there can no more bee well expected from him: that he hath in the whole courſe of this his long examination, deliuered his conſcience and iudgement ſincerely and truely, without any cauſion of what nature or kind ſoeuer: ſo as hee will neuer hereafter doubt, but that his Maieſtie and the State will euer repute him (as indeede he is, and ſo will alwayes continue) a moſt loyall, faithfull, and duetifull ſubiect. And hereunto he addeth, that the remembrance, and due conſideration of all the premiſſes hath wrought ſo with him, as he hath euen of conſcience and compaſsion ouer ſome men otherwiſe affected, then they ought to bee (in his iudgement) directed his letter vnto all the Catholickes of England both Eccleſiaſticall and Lay, to the end, they may better bethinke themſelues touching theſe points, and conforme all their cogitations and actions to ſuch duety and obedience towards his Maieſtie, as by the word of God they are bound: and as all the ancient Chriſtians did, and all good Catholickes ſtill remaine obliged to doe. Whereupon he deſired for Gods ſake, that thus his Examination might ende, and therein hee had his deſire.