The examinacion of Master William Thorpe preste accused of heresye before Thomas Arundell, Archebishop of Ca[n]terbury, the yere of ower Lord .MCCCC. and seuen. The examinacion of the honorable knight syr Jhon Oldcastell Lorde Cobham, burnt bi the said Archebisshop, in the fyrste yere of Kynge Henry the Fyfth.

The examinacion of Master William Thorpe preste accused of heresye before Thomas Arundell, Archebishop of Ca[n]terbury, the yere of ower Lord .MCCCC. and seuen. The examinacion of the honorable knight syr Jhon Oldcastell Lorde Cobham, burnt bi the said Archebisshop, in the fyrste yere of Kynge Henry the Fyfth.

Table of contents

Title page

¶Vnto the Christen Reader.

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¶Thus endeth the examynacion of Master Wyllyam Thorpe. And here after foloweth hys testamente.

¶The beleue of the Lorde Cobh̄am.

¶The beleue.

¶The endenture of the lorde Cobham

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The examinacion of Master William Thorpe preste accused of heresye before Thomas Arundell / Archebishop of Cāturbury / the yere of ower Lorde. M.CCCC. and seuen.

¶The examinacion of the honorable knight sye Ihon̄ Oldcastell Lorde Cobham / burnt bi the said Archebisshop / in the fyrste yere of Kynge Henry the fyfth.

¶Benomore ashamed to heare it / then ye were and be / to do it.

¶Vnto the Christen Reader.

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GRace and peace in oure lorde Iesu Christe. Reade here with iudgemente goode reader the examinacion of the blssed man of god / and there thou shalt caselye perceyue wherfore oure holy chirch a [...] the most on holy sorte of all the people wilbe called) make all their examinaciōs in darkenes / all the laye people cleane excluded from their councels. For yf their lies had ben openly confuted and also that the accused of heresye myghte as well haue ben admytted to reason their articles with councell / whether they were heresye or no as the accused of treason agenst the king / is admytted to his councell to confute his cause and articles whether they be treason or not / they shulde neuer haue murthered nor prisoned so many good christen men as they haue done. For their cloked lyes coulde neuer haue contynued so long in the lighte / as they haue done in corners. They good men when they / come in the pulpet and preache agenst the treuth / crye: Yf their lernynge were goode and trew / they wold neuer go in corners / but speke it openly. Where vnto I answere that besyde that Christe and his apostles were compelled (for because of the furyousnes of their fathers the bishoppes and preastes) whiche onely that tyme also wolde [Page] be called holy chyrche) often tymes for to walke secretly / and absent them self and geue place to their malice? yet we haue daylye examples off more then one or two / that haue not spared nor feared for to speake and also preache opnlye the trouthe whiche haue ben taken of them prysoned and brent / besyde other that for feare of deathe haue abiured and caryed fagottes. Of whos articles and examinacion there ys no leye man that can shewe a worde. Who can tell wherfore (not many yeres paste) there were seuen burnt in conuentrye on one daye? Who can tell wherfore that good preaste and holye martyr Syr Thomas hitton was brente / now thys yere / at maydstone yn Kent? I am sure no man. For this is their caste euer when they haue put to deathe or punyshed any man / after their secrete examynacyon / to slaunder hym of soche thynges as he neuer thought. As they maye do well Inough: seynge there is no man to contrarye them. Wherfore I exhorte the good brother / who soeuer thou be that redest thys treatyse / marke hit well and consyder it seryouslye / and there thou shalt fynde not onelye what the chyrche ys / theyre doctryne of the Sacramente / the worshyppynge off ymagyes / pylgremage / confessyon / Swerynge and payinge of tythes? But also thou mayst se what stronge and substancyall argumentes off scripture and doctoures / and what clerkely reasons / my lorde / the [Page] hedde and prymate of the holye chyrche in England (as he wilbe taken) bryngeth agenst this pore / folysh / symple / and madde losell / knave / & heretike as he calleth hym. And also the verye cause wherfore all their examynacions are made in darkenes. And the lorde of all lyght shall lighten the with the candle of his grace / for to se the trewth. Amen.

¶This I haue corrected and put forth in the english that now is vsed in Englāde / for owe [...] sothern men / nothynge therto addynge ne yet ther from mynysshyng. And I entende hereafter with the helpe of God to put it forthe in his owne olde english / which shal well serue / I doute not / bothe for the northern men ād the faythfull brothern of scotlāde.

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THe Lorde god that knoweth all thinges worteth well that I am right sorrowfull for to write or to make knowen this sentē ce beneth written where that of myne even christē sette in hie state and dignite so gret blyndnes ād malice maye be knowē that they that presume of them selfe to distroye vices and to plante in men vertues / nother drede to offēde god nor luste to please him as their warkes show. For certes the biddinge of god & his lawe / whiche in the praysynge of his most holy name / he commaundeth to be knowen and kepte of all men and women / younge and olde▪ after the cōnynge and power yt he hath gyuen to them / the prelates of this lande and their mynisters / with the comente of prestys chefely consentyng to them / enforce them moste besyly to withstonde and destroye the holy ordinaunce of god. And there thorowe / god is greatly wrothe and moeuyd to take harde vengeaunce not onely vpon them that doo the evyll / but also on thē all that consent to these Antichristys lymnes: Which knowe or might knowe their malyce ād their falshode / and dresse them not to withstond their malice and their greate pryde. Neuerthelesse fower thinges moueth me to writeth is sentence beneth. The fyrst thinge that moeueth me hereto is this / that wher as it was knowē to certeyn [Page] frendes yt I came frō the preson of Shrewisbury: and as it befell in dede that I shulde to the preson of Canterbury: than diuerse frendes in diuerse places spake to me full hartefully and full tenderly: and commaunded me thē yf it so were that I sholde be examined before ye Archebishope of Canterbury / that if I mygh [...]e in ony wise / I sholde writte myne apposinge and myne answeringe. And I promysed to my speciall frendes / that yf I might / I wolde gladly do their biddinges as I might. The .ij. thing that moueth me to write this sentence is thys / diuerse frendes which haue herde that I haue ben examined before ye Archebisshop / haue comen to me in prison and councelled me besely / and coueted greatly that I shulde do the same thynge. And other brethrē haue sent to me & required me on goddes behalf yt I shold write out & make knowē both myne apposing & myne answerīg for ye profet yt (as they saye) ouer my knowlegīg may come therof. But this they badde me yt I shold be besye in all my wittes to go as nere ye sentēce & ye wordes as I coulde both that were spokē to me ād yt I spake. Vp auēture this writing came a nother tyme before ye Archebishope & his counsell. And of this coūselling I was right glad: for in my cōsciēce I was moued to do this thing / & to aske hereto ye speciall helpe of god. And so thā I considering ye great desyre of diuerse frēdes of sondry places according all in one: I occupied all my mynde & my [Page] writtes so besyly yt thorow goddes grace I perceyued by their meyning & their charitable desyre some profete might come ther throwe. For sothe fastenesse & trouth hath these cōdiciōs. Where euer it is impugned: yt hath a swete smell & thereof comes a swete savoure. And ye more violently ye enemyes dresse thē self to oppresse & to withstond ye truthe ye greater & the sweter smell cometh therof. And therfore this heuēly smell of goddes worde will not as a smoke passe awaye with the wynde: but it will descend and reste in some clene souleth at thrusteth ther after. And thus somedele by this wrytynge maye be perceyued throwe goddes grace how yt the enemies of the truthe standing boldely in ther malice enforce thē to witstonde ye fredome of christes gospell / for which fredome Christe became mā / and shedde his herte bloode. And therfore it is great pytte and sorowe that many mē & women do their awne weywart will: nor besye them not to knowe nor to doo the plesaunt will of God. Ye / men and women that heare the truthe and sothefastenesse / and heare or knowe of this / perceyuynge what is now in the chyrche / ought here throwe to be the more moued in all there wittes to able them to grace / and to sett lesser pryse by them self / that they without tariynge forsake wilfully and bodely all the wrechednesse off thys lyfe / syns they knowe not howe soone / nor whā / nor where / nor by whome god will teache them & assaye their pacience. For no doute who [Page] that euer will lyue piteously that is charytably in Christe Iesu shall suffer now here in this lyfe persecucyon in one wyse or a nother / that is if we shall be sauyd: Yt behouyth vs to ymagyn full besyly / the vilite and foulnesse of synne and howe the lorde god is displeasyd therfore: ād so of this vilite of hydousnesse of synne it behouyth vs to besye vs in all our wyttes for to abhorre & holde in our mynde a greate shame of synne euer / and so than we owe to sorowe hartely therfore / ād euer fliyng all occasyō therof. And thā behooueth vs to take vpon vs sharpe penaunce contynuynge therin for to obteyne of the lord forgeuenesse of oure fore done synnes / and grace to abstayne vs hereafter from synne. And but yf we enforse vs to doo this wilfully / and inconuenient tyme / the lorde (yf he will not vtterly destroye and caste vs awaye) will in diuerse maners moue tyrantes ageynst vs for to constreyne vs violently for to do penaunce / whiche we wolde not do wilfully. And truste that thys doynge ys a speciall grace of the Lorde / and a great token of lyfe and mercy. And no doute who euer will not applye him selfe (as is seyd before) to ponyshe hym selfe wilfully / nother will suffer paciently mekely and gladly the rodde of the Lorde howe so euer that he wyll punysshe hym: their waywarde wylles and their ynpacience are vnto them earnyste of euerlastyng dampnacyon. But because there are but fewe in numbre that do able them thus faythfully [Page] to grace for to lyue here symply ād purely and wythout gall of malyce and of grudgyng herefore the louers of thys worlde hate and persue them that they knowe pacyent / meke / chaste and wylfully poere / hatyng and fleyng all worldly vanites and flesshely lustes. For suerly their vertuouse condicyons ar euen contrary to the maners of thys worlde. The thyrde thyng that moeuyth me to wryte thys sētēceys thys. I thought I shall besye me in myselfe to doo feythfully that all men and women occupiyng all their besynes in knowyng and in kepyng of goddys cōmaundmentys able them so to grace that they myght vnderstonde treuly the treuthe & haue and vse verteu & prudence: & so to serue to be lychrenyd from aboue wyth heuenly wysdom: so that all their wordys & their workys may be hereby made plesaunt sacrifices vnto the lorde god: ād not onely for helpe for their owne soulys but also for edificacyon of all holy chyrche. For I doute not but all they that wyll applye thē to haue thys foreseyd besynesse shall profere full mekyll both to frendys and to foes. For some enemyes of ye treut he throwe the grace of god shall throwe charitable folkes be made astoonyd in their conscience / and parauē ture conuertyd from vyces to verteuys / ād also they yt laboure to knowe & to kepe feythfully the byddynges of god & to suffer paciently all aduersites shall here by cōforte many frēdys And the fourte thyng that moeuyth me to wryte thys [Page] sētēce is thys I knowe my sodeyn & vnwarnyd apposyng & ansueryng yt all they yt wyll of goode harte wythout feynyng able thē self wifully and gladly after their connyng ād their powere to folowe christe paciently / trauelyng besyly pryuely and apertly in worke and in worde to withdrawe who so euer that they may from vyces plantyng in them (yf they may) vertues / cōfortyng them and fortheryng them that stondyeth in grace: so that therwyth they be not borne vp into veyne glorye throwe presumpcyon of their wysdome / nor enflamyd wyth any worldly prosperite: but euer meake ād paciente / purposyng to abyde stedfastely in the wyll of god suffryng wylfully and gladly wythout onye grutchyng what so euer rodde the lorde wyll chastyse them wyth: than thys goode lorde wyll not forget to comforte all soch men and women in all their tribulacyons / and at euery poynte of temptacyō that any enemye purposyth for to doo ageynst them. Soche feythfull louers specially / and pacient folowers of chryste / the lorde sendyth hys wysdome from aboue to them: whych the aduersaries of the treuthe may not knowe nor vnderstonde. But throwe their olde and newe vnshamefaste synnes those tyrantys and enemyes of southfastnesse shall be so blynded and obstynate in euyll that they shall wene themself to doo plesaunt sacrifyces vnto the lorde god in their malicyouse and wrongfull persewyng and destroyeng of innocent mennys and womens bodyes [Page] whych men and women for their vertuouse lyuyng and for their trew knoulegyng of the treuythe & their pacyent wilfull & gladde sufferyng of persecutyon for ryghteuousnes deserue throw the grace of god to be heyres of the endlesse blysse of heuen. And for the feruent desyre and the great loue that those men haue as to stāde in sothefastenesse & wytnesse of yt / though they ben sodenly & vnwarnyd brought forthe to be apposyd of their aduersaries: the holy goste: yet that moeuyth & reulyth them throw hys charite wyll in the houre of their ansueryng speake in them & shewe hys wysdome that all their enemyes shall not again seye nor against stande lawfully. And therefore all they that are stedfaste in the feythe of god / ye / whych thorowe diligēt kepyng of hys comaūdementys / & for their paciēt sufferyng of what so euer aduersite that cometh to them / hope surely in hys mercy: purposyng to stande contynually in perfyte charite For thoes mē and women drede not so the aduersites of thys lyfe that they wyll feare (after their connyng ād their power) to knowlege prudently the truethe of goddys worde / when / where / and to whome that they thynke their knoulegyng may profete Ye & though therefore persecutyon come to thē in one wyse or a nother / certes thei paciētly take hit knowyng their cōuersaciō to be in heuē. Yt ys an hye rewarde & a speciall grace of god for to haue & enioye as ye euerlastyng inheritaunce of heuen / for the sufferyng [Page] of one persecutyon in so shorte tyme as ys the terme of thys lyfe. For lo thys heuenly heritage and endlesse rewarde is the lorde god him selfe wych ys the beste thyng that may be. Thys sentēce wytnessyth ye lorde god hym selfe wheras he seyd to Abrahā I am thy mede. And as the lorde seyd he was and ys the mede of Abraham: so heys of all hys other seyntys Thys moste blessyd and beste mede he graunt to vs all for hys holy name that made vs of nought / ād sent hys onely moste deare woorthy sonne / our lorde Iesu christe for to redeme vs wyth hys moste preciouse harte bloode Amen.

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KNowen be yt to all men yt rede or heare thys writyng benethe: that on the sondaye next after the feste of seynt Peter / that we call lammesse in the yeare of our lorde a .M.CCCC. and .vij. yeare. I william of Thorpe beyng in preson in the castell of Saltwode was brought before Thomas Arundell Archebysshope of Canterbury and Chaunceler than of Ingland. And when that I came to hym / he stoode in a great chāber & moch people aboute hym: & when that he sawe me he wēt faste into a closett byddyng all seculer men that folowed hym to go forth from hym sone / so that no mā was left than in that closet but ye Archebysshop hymselfe ād a physician yt was callyd Malueren person of seynt Dunstanys in London & other two personys vnknowen to me whych [Page] ware minysterys of ye lawe. And I stādyng before thē by & by the Archebysshop seyd to me William / I know well yt thou hast thys twēty wynter & more trauelyd about besyly in ye north contre & in other diuerse contres of Inglād sowyng about false doctrine / hauyng great busynesse yf thou myght wyth thyne vntrew reachyng & shrewyd wyll for to enfecte and poyson all this lāde. But through ye grace of god thou art now wythstondyd & brought in to my warde / so yt I shall now sequester the from thyne euyll purpose / & lett yt to enuenyme ye shepe of my prouynce. Neuer the lesse seynt Paul seythe Yf it may be as ferre as in vs ys we owe to haue peace wyth all men. Therfore William yf thou wyll now mekely & of goode harte / without onye feynyng / knele downe & leye thy hāde apō a booke ād kysse yt promysyng feythfully as I shall here charge the that thou wilt submytthe to my correccyon / & stāde to myne ordinaūce / & fulfyll yt dewly by all thy connyng & power: thou shall yet fynde me gracyouse vnto ye. Than seyd I to ye Archebysshop. Syr syns ye deme me an heretyke out of beleue wyll ye gyue me here audiēce to tell my beleue. And he seyd / ye tell on. And I seyd I beleue yt ther is not but one god almyghty / & in thys god heed and of thys godhede a [...] thre persones / yt is ye fader / ye sonne ād the sothe faste holy goste. And I beleue that all thes thre persones ar euen in power & in connyng ād in myght full of grace & of all goodnesse For what [Page] [...]o euer that the father dothe or can or wyll / that [...]hyng also ye sonne dothe & can and wyll: ād in all their power connyng & wyll ye holy goste ys equall to the father & to ye sonne. Ouer thys I beleue that thrugh coūsell of thys moste blessyd trinite in moste conueniēt tyme before ordenyd for the saluacyon of man kynde the seconde peerson of thys trinite was ordenyd to take the fourme of man / that is the kynde of man. And I beleue that thys seconde person our lorde Iesu christe was conceiuyd thorough the holy goste into the wombe of the moste blessyd virgyn Marye wyth out mānys seede. And I beleue that after nyne monethys Christe was borne of thys moste blessyd vergyn wythout ony peyne or brekyng of the closter of hyr wombe / and wythout fylthe of hyr virginite. And I beleue that Christe our sauyour was circuncisyd in the eyghte daye after hys byrthe in fulfillyng of ye lawe / and hys name was callyd Iesu whych was callyd of ye angell before yt he was cōceiuyd in ye wōbe of Marie hys moder. And I beleue yt Christe as he was about thyrty yeare olde was baptyzed in ye fludde of Iordane of Iohn̄ baptist / & in lykenesse of a dove ye holy goste descendyd there vpon him: and a voyce was herde frō heuen seiyng. Thou art my welblouyd sonne In the I am full pleasyd. And I beleue that Christe was moeuyd than by the holy goste for to goo in to desert / & there he fastyd fourty dayes ād fourty nyghtes wythout bodely meate & drynk. And I beleue that by and by [Page] after hys fastyng whan the manhode of Christe hongeryd the feende came to hym ād tēptyd hym in glotony / in veyn glory / and in couetyse / but in all thoes temptacyōs Christe concludyd the fende ād with stoode hym And than wyth out tariyng Iesu began to preache & to seye vnto the people / doo ye penaunce / for the realme of heuen ys now at hande. And I beleue yt Christe in all hys tyme here lyued moste holyly and taught the wyll of hys fader moste trewly / and I beleue that he sufferyd therefore moste wrong fully greatyst repreuys and despysynges. And after thys whan Christe wolde make an ende here of hys temporall lyfe. I beleue that in the daye next before that he wolde suffer passyon on the morne: In fourme of brede & of wyne he ordenyd ye sacramēte of hys flessh & hys blood yt ys hys owne precyous body / ād gaue it to hys apostles for to eate / cōmaundyng them & by thē all their after comers: yt they sholde doo it ī thys fourme that he shewyd to them / vse them self and teache and commone forthe to other men & woomen thys moste worshypfull holiest sacramēt / in myndefulnesse of hys holyest lyuyng & of hys moste trew teachyng / & of hys wilfull & paciēt sufferyng of the moste peynfull passion And I beleue yt thus Christeour sauyour / after yt he had ordenid thys moste woorthy sacramēt of hys owne preciouse body: he wēt forthe wyllfully agenst hys enemyes / and he sufferyd thē most paciently to ley their hādys moste violētly [Page] vppon hym / and to bynde hym / & to leade hym forthe as a thefe / and to skorne hym / ād buffet ād all to blow or fyle hym with their spittinges Ouer this I beleue that Christ suffered most mekely and paciently his enemies for to dinge out with sharpe scourges the bloude that was betwene his skyn & his flesh: yee without grudginge Christ suffered ye cruell Iewes to crown hym with most sharp thornes and to strike him with a rede. And after Christ suffered wicked Iewes to draw him out vpon the crosse and for to nayle hym there vpon fote and hande. And so thorow this pitiefull naylinge Christ shed out wilfully for mans lyfe the bloude that was in his vaynes. And then christ gaue wilfully his spirite in to the handes or power of his father / and so as he wolde & when he wold Christ deid wilfully for mans sake vpon ye crosse And notwithstādinge yt Christ was wilfully / paynfully ād most shamfully put to deeth as to the worlde / there was left bloude and water in his herte as he before ordened that he wolde shede out this bloude and this water for mans saluacion. And therfore he suffered the Iewes to make a blinde knight to thrust him in to the herte with a spere and this the bloude and water yt was in his hert Christ wolde shede out for mās loue. And after this I beleue that Christ was taken downe from the crosse and buried And I beleue that on ye thrid daye by power of his god heed Christ rose again from deth to life. And [Page] the .xl. daye ther after I beleue that Christ ascended vp in to heuen and that he there sitteth on the right hande of god the father almyghty. And the tenth daye after this vp goinge he sente to his apostles the holy goost that he had promysed them before. And I beleue that Christe shall come and iudge all mankinde / some to euerlastinge peace and some to everlastynge paynes. And as I beleue in the father and in the sonne that they are one god almyghty / so I beleue in the holy goost that is also with them the same god almighti. And I beleue an holy chirche that is all thei / that haue byn and that now are and alwayes to the ende of the worlde shalbe a people the which shall endeuer them to knowe & to kepe the commaundementes of god / dredinge ouer all thynge to offende god and lovynge and sekynge most to please hym. And I beleue that all they that haue had and yet haue and all they that yet shall haue the foresayde ververtuous surely standynge in the belefe of god / hopyng stedfastly in hys mercifull doynges / cō tinuynge to their ende in perfect charite / wilfully / paciently and gladly soferynge persecuciōs / by the example of Christ chefly ād his apostles / all these haue their names wryten in the boke of life. Therfor I beleue that the gaderynge together of this people lyuynge now here in this lyfe ys the holye chyrche of god feyghtynge here on erth agaynst the fende / the prosperyte of the worlde and their fleshely lustes. Wherfore seyng [Page] that all the gadering together of this church before said and euery parte therof nother coueteth nor willeth nor loveth nor seketh any thinge but to eschew the offence of god and to do his pleasynge will: mekely / gladly and wilfully of all myne herte I submitt my selfe vnto thys holye church of christ to be ever buxsom and obediente to the ordinaunce of it and of euery member thereof after my knowlege and power by the helpe of god. Therfore I knowlege now ād euermore shall / if god will / that of all my harte and off all my might I will submyt me only to the rule and gouernaunce of them whome after my knowlege I maye perceave by the havynge and vsynge of the beforesayd vertues to be membres of the holy churche. Wherfore these articles off belefe and all other bothe of the olde lawe and of the newe / whiche after the commaundement of god any man oughte to beleue / I beleue verely in my soule as a synnefull deedly wretche of my cunnynge and power oughte to beleue prayenge the lorde god for his holye name for to encrease my belefe and helpe my vnbelefe. And for bycause to the praysynge of goddes name I desyre aboue all thynge to be a faythfull membre of holy churche I make this protestacyon before you all foure that are now here presente / covetynge that all men and women that nowe absente knewe the same / that what thynge so ever before this tyme I haue sayde or done / or what thynge here I shall doo or saye / [Page] at any tyme here after. I beleve that all the olde lawe and the newe lawe geuen and ordened by the councell of these thre persones of the trynite were geuen and wrytten to the saluacyon off mankynde. And I beleue that these lawes are sufficient for mans saluacyon. And I beleue every article of these lawes to the entente that these articles were ordened and commaunded of these thre persones off the moste blessed trynyte to be beleued. And therfore to the rule and the ordynaunce off these goddes lawes mekely / gladly and wilfully I submytte me with all myne harte that who ever can or wyll by ouctoryte off goddes lawe / or by open reason / tell me that I haue erred or nowe erre or any tyme here after shall erre in any article of belefe (fro whyche inceonvenience god kepe me for his goodnesse) I submytte me to be reconcyled and to be buxum and obedyente vnto these lawes of god and to every article of them. For by auctorite / specyally of these lawes / I will / thorowe the grace of god / be vnyed charytably vnto these lawes. Yee syr and ouer thys I beleue and admytte all the sentences / auctorites and reasons off the saynctes and doctoures accordynge vnto holy scripture and declarynge it truely. I submytte me wylfully and mekely to be ever obediente after my connynge and power to all these saynctes and doctoures as they are obedyente in worke and in worde to god and [Page] to his lawe / and forther not to my knowlege no [...] for any erthly power dignite or state / thorowe the helpe of god. But Syr I praye you tell me yf after youre biddyng I shall laye my hande vpon the boke to the entente to swere thereby? And the Archebishope sayde to me / yee / wherfore els? And I sayde to him. Syr a boke is no thynge els but a thynge coupled together of dyuerse creatures / and to swere by any creature both gods lawe and mans lawe is agaynst. But Syr this thinge I saye here to you before these youre clerckes / with my forsayd protestacion / that howe where / when and to whom men are boūdē to swere or to obeye in ony wyse after gods lawe and sayntes & trewe doctours according with gods lawe: I will thorow gods grace be euer redy therto with all my conning & power. But I pray you syr for ye charite of god yt ye will before that I swere as I haue here rehersed to you tell me how or whereto yt I shall submytt me: & shewe me wherof yt ye will correcte me: & what is the ordinaunce that ye will thus oblige me to fulfyll.

And ye Archebishop seid vnto me. I will shortely that nowe thou swere here to me that thou shalt forsake all the opinions which the secte of Lollardes holde / and is slaundred with: so that after this tyme nother pryuely nor apertly thou holde any opiniō which I shall after that thou haste sworne reherse to y• here. Nor thou shalt fauer no man nor womā / yong nor old yt holdeth [Page] any of thes foreseid opiniōs: but after thi knowlege & power thou shalt enforsethe to withstande all soche distroblers of holye chyrche in euery diocese that thou comest in: & thē that will not leaue their false and dampnable opinions thou shalt putt them vp publeshyng them and theyr names / and make them knowen to ye bishope of the diocese that they are in or to the bishopes mynistres. And ouer this I will that thou preach no more vnto the tyme that I know by good witnesse & trewe yt thy cōuersacion be soch that thy harte & thy mouth accorde treuly in one cōtrariyng all ye leude learnyng that thou hast taught here before.

And I hearyng thes wordes thought in my harte that this was an vnlefull a sting: & I demyd myself cursed of god / yf I cōsented hereto & I thought howe Susan seid. Anguyssch is to me on euery syde. And in yt I stode still & spake not / the Archebishop seid to me. Answere one wyse or a nother. And I seid. Syr / if I cōsented to you thus / as ye haue here rehersed to me / I shold become an appelar / or euery bishopis espye / somonour of all Englonde. For & I sholde thus put vp / & publeshe ye names of mē & womē I sholde here in deceive full many persones: ye syr as it is likely by ye dome of my cōsciēce I sholde herein because of ye dethe both of mē & womē ye both bodely & gostely. For many mē & womē that stande now in ye treuthe / & are in ye waye of saluacyon: yf I shold for the learnyng & reding [Page] of their beleue publeshe thē & put thē therfor vp to bisshopes or to their vnpituouse ministers I knowe some dele by experience yt they shulde be so distrobled & diseased with persecuciō or other wise yt many of thē (I thinke) wold rather chose to forsake the waye of treuthe thā to be traueled skorned & slaundred or punished as bishopes & their ministres now vse for to constreyne men & women to consent to thē. But I fynde in no place in holy scripture / that this office yt ye wolde now enfeffe me with accordith to ony priste off christes secte / nor to any other christē man. And therfore to do thus werto me a full noyeous bō de to be boundē with & ouer greuouse charge. For I suppose yt yf I thus dede many men & women wold / ye syr / might iustly vnto my cōfusion sey to me / that I wer a traitur to god and to them: syns (as I thinke in myne hert) many mē and womē truste so mekle in me in this case / yt I wold not for sauyng of my lyfe do thus to thē For yf I thus sholde do full many mē & womē wolde (as they might full truely sey / that I hadde fasly and cowerdly forsaken the truthe / & slaundred shamefully the worde of god. For yf I cōsented to you to do hereafter your will for bonchefe or mischef yt may befall to me in this lyfe / I deme in my conscience yt I were worthy herefore to be cursed of god & also of all his soynctes / fro which inconuenience kepe me & all christen people almighti god now & euer for his holy name▪ And than the Archebishop seid vnto [Page] me. O thyne harte is full harde endured as was yt herre of Pharao / & the deuell hath ouer comē the & peruerted the / & he hath so blynded the in all thy wittes / that thou haste no grace to knowe the treuthe / nor ye mesure of mercye yt I haue profered to ye. Therfor as I perceyue now by thy folish answere / thou hast no will to leaue thyne olde errours. But I sey to ye leude losell / other thou quikly consente to myne ordinaunce & submitte ye to stande to my decrees: or by seynt Thomas thou shalt be disgraded / & folowe thy felowe in Smithfelde. And at this seyng I stode styll and spake not / but I thought in myne harte yt god did to me a greate grace / yf he wolde of his greate mercy bringe me to soch an ende. And in myne hart I was nothing frayde with this menasīg of ye archebishop. And I cō sidered there .ij. thīges in hī. One / yt he was not yet soroufull for yt he had made Williā Soutre wrongfully to be burnt. And as I consydered that ye Archebishop thyrsted yet after more shedīg out of innocent bloode. And fast therfore I was moved in all my wittes for to hold ye archebishop nother for prelate nor for preist of god / & for ye myne inward mā was thus altogether departed frō ye archebishop me thought I sholde not haue ony dreade of hī. But I was right heuy & soroufull for yt ther was none audiēce of seculer mē by: but in myn hart I praid ye lord god for to cōforte me and strengith me ageinst thē yt there ware agaynste the sothefastenesse. And [Page] I purposed to speake no more to the Archebisshop & his clerckes than me nede behoued: & all thus I praied god for his goodnesse to geue me than & alwaye grace to speake with a meke ād an easy spyrit: & what soeuer thinge yt I shulde speke that I might therto haue true authorites of scriptures or open reason. And for yt I stode thus still & nothing spake / one of the Archebisshopes clerkes seid vnto me.

What thing musiste thou? do thou as my lorde hath now cōmaunded to the here.

And yet I stode still & answered him not / ād than sone after ye Archebishope seid to me. Arte thou not yet bethought / whether thou wilt do / as I haue here seid to the? And I seid thā to hym.

Syr my father & my mother on whose soules god haue mercy (yf it be his will) spent mekyll money in diuerse places about my learning for the entent to haue made me a preste to god. But when I came to yeares of discrecion / I had no will to be preiste / & therfore my frēdes were right heuy to me / & thā me thought their grudgīg agenst me was so peynfull to me / yt I purposed therfor to haue lefte their cōpany. And whē thei perceiued this in me they spake some tyme full feire & plesaunt wordes to me: but for yt thei might not make me to cōsent of goode harte to be a preiste / thei spake to me full ofte tymes very greuous wordes / & manassed me ī diuerse maners shewīg to me full heuy chere. And thus one while ī feire maner / a nother while in greuous they [Page] wer lōg tyme as me thought full besy about me or I cōsentid to thē to be a prieste. But at ye laste whā in this matter thei wold no lōger suffer myne excusacions / but other I sholde cōsent to thē or I sholde euer beare their indignacion / ye / their curse (as thei seide) Thā I seing this praid them that they wold gyue me licence for to go to them that wer named wyse priestis and of verteuous conuersacion to haue their counsell / ād to knowe of them the office & the charge of priesthode. And hereto my father and my mother consented full gladly / ād gaue me their blissing and goode leaue to go / and also money to spende in this iourney. And so than I went to tho priestis whome I herde to be of beste name / ād of moste holy lyuyng / and beste learnid / & moste wyse of heuenly wisdome: and so I communed with them vnto the tyme that I perceiuyd by their verteuous and continuall occupacions yt their honeste and charitable werkis passid their fame wich I herde before of them. Wherfore syr by the example of the doctrine of them / and specially for the godly & innocent workis wich I perceiued than of them and in them / after my conning and power I haue exercised me than and in this tyme to knowe perfectly goddis lawe / hauing a will and a desyre to lyue ther after / willing that all men and women exercised thē self feithfully ther aboute. Yf than syr other for pleasure or displeasure of them that ar nother so wyse / nor of so verteuouse conuersacion [Page] to my knowlege / nor by comone fame to ony other mannis knoulege in this lande as thes men wer of whome I toke my counsell and informacion: I sholde now forsake thus sodenly and shortely ād vnwarnid all the learning yt I haue exercised my self in this thirty winter and more. My conscience shulde euer be herewith out of mesure vnquietid / & as syr I knowe well that many men and women sholde be ther throwe greatly troublid and sclaunderid / and as I seid syr to you before. For myne vntrewthe and false cowardnesse many a one sholde be put into full great reprefe / ye syr I drede / that many a one (as thei might than iustely / wolde curse me full bitterly / and syr I feare not / but the curse of god / wich I sholde deserue here in / wolde brīg me to a full euyll ende / yf I continewid thus. And if thorow remorse of conscience I repētid me any tyme retourning in to the waye / wych / you doo your diligence to constreine me now to forsake / ye syr / all ye bisshopis of this lāde with full many other priestis wolde defame me / and pursew me as a relapse / and thei that now haue (though I be vnworthy) some confidence in me here after wolde neuer truste to me though I cowlde teache and liue neuer so verteuously more than I can or may. For if after your counsell I lefte vtterly all my learning / I sholde hereby firste wounde and defyle myne owne soule / ād also I shulde here through geue occasiō to many men and women of full sore hurting / ye syr [Page] as it is likely to me / if I consentid to your will I sholde herein by myne euill example in it / as ferre as in me wer / slee many folke gostely / that I sholde neuer deserue for to haue grace of god to the edifiyng of his chirche nother of my self / nor of none other mannes lyfe: & vndone bothe before god & man. But syr by example chefely of some whos names I will not now reherse / H / of I / P / and B / and also by the present doyng of Philip of Rāpenton that is now becomē Bisshop of Lincoln I am now learnid as many mo hereafter thorow goddis grace shall be learnid / to hate & to fle all soche sclaūder yt thes foreseid men chefely hathe defyled principally thē selfes with. And in it yt in thē is they haue enuenemid all ye chirche of god for ye sclaunderous reuokyng at ye crosse of paulis of H. P. & of B / & how now Philip Rāpenton persewith cristis people. And ye feining / yt thes men dissemble by worldly prudēce keping thē cowerdly in their preaching and communyng within the bondis ād termis (wich without blame may be spokyn and shewid out to the moste worldly lyuers) will not be vnponisshid of god. For to the pointe of trewthe that thes men shewid out some tyme they will not now streche forthe their lyues. But by example eche one of them as their wordis and their workis shewe they besy them thorow their feinyng: for to sclaunder and to persewe Christe in his membres / rather than they will be persewid.

[Page]And the Archebisshop seid to me. Thes men the wich thou spekist of now wer foolis and heretiques: whan they wer countid wyse men of the and other soche loselles. But now they ar wyse men / though thou and soche other denie them vnwyse. Neuerthelesse I wiste neuer none / that right seide / that eny while were enuenymed with your contagiousnesse / that is / contaminate and spottid doctrine.

And I seid to the Archebisshop. Syr I thinke well that thes men and soche other ar now wyse as to this worlde / but as their wordis soū did sometyme and their workis shewid outwardly / it was likely to moue me yt they hadde earneste of the wisdome of god / and that they sholde haue deseruid mikell grace of god to haue sauyd their owne soules and meny other mennis if they hadde continewid feithfully in wilfull pouerte and in other symple verteuous lyuyng and specially / if they hadde with thes foreseide vertueis continewid in their besy frutefull sowing of goddis worde: as to many mennys knoulege they occupied thē a season in all their wittes full besyly to knowe the plesaunt will of god / trauelyng all their mēbres full besily for to doo ther after / purely and chefely to the praising of the moste holy name of god / and for grace of edificacion and saluacion of cristen people But wo worthe false couetise / and euill counsell / and tyrannye by wiche they and many men and women ar ledde blyndely into an euill [Page] ende.

Than the Archebisshop seide to me. Thou & soche other losellis of thy secte wolde shaue your berdis full nere for to haue a benefice. For by Iesu I knowe none more couetouse shrewis than ye ar / when that ye haue a benefice. For lo I gaue to Iohn̄ Puruay / a benefice but a myle out of this castell / and I herde more compleintis aboute his couetousnesse for tythes ād other mysdoyngys than I didde of all men that wer auauncid within my diocesse.

And I seid to the Archebisshop. Syr puruay is nother with you now for the benefice yt ye gaue hym / nor he holdith feithfully with the learnyng that he tawght and writ before tyme and thus he shewith hym self nother to be hote nor colde: and therfore he and his felaws may sore drede that if they torne not hastely to ye waye that they haue forsakyn: parauēture they be put out of the nombre of cristis chosyn people.

And the Archebisshop seid. Though Puruay be now a false harlot I quyte me to hym / but come he more for soche cause before me: or we departe I shall knowe with whome he holdith. But I sey to the. Whiche ar thes holy mē and wyse of whome thou haste takyn thyne informacion.

And I seid. Syr / Master Iohn Wicleff was holden of full many men the greatiste clerke that they knewe than lyuyng / and therwith he was namid a passing ruely man and an ynnocent [Page] in his lyuynge and herefore greate men commonyd ofte with hym and they louyd so his learnyng that they writ it / and besily enforsid them to rule themself there after. Therfore syr this foreseid learnyng of Master Iohn Wicleff is yet holden of full many men and womē the moste agreable learning vnto the lyuing ād teachyng of Criste and of his Apostles / & moste openly shewing and declaring how the chirche of Criste hathe ben and yet shulde be rewlid ād gouernid. Therfore so many men and women couet this learnyng / & purpose / thorough goddis grace to conforme their lyuyng lyke to this learnyng of Wicleff. Master Iohn aiston tawght and writ accordingly ād full besily wher and whan / and to whome that he myght / and he vsid it hymself right perfitely vnto his lifes ende. And also Philip of Rampenton while he was a chanone of Lacester / Nicolas Herforde Dauy Gotray of Pakring monke of Bylande and a master of diuinite / and Iohn Purnay ād many other wich wer holden right wise men & prudent tawcht and writ besily this forseid learnyng and conformid them therto. And with all thes men I was ofte right homely ād communyd with them long tyme and ofte: and so before all other men I choes wilfully to be infourmyd of them and by them and specially of Wicleff hymself / as of the moste verteuous & godly wyse mē that I herde of or knewe. And therfore of hym specially and of thes men I tooke [Page] the learnyng that I haue tauchte and purpose to lyue there after (if god will) to my lyues ende. For though some of thes men be contrary to the learnyng that they taucht before I wote well yt their learning was trewe wich they tauchte: ād therfore with the helpe of god I purpose to holde and to vse the learning wich I harde of thē / while they sat on Moyses chaire / and specially while that they sat on the chaire of Criste. But after ye werkis that they now do I will not doo with goddis helpe. For they feyne and hyde ād cōtrarie the trewthe wich before they taucht out plenily and trewly. For as I know well when some of thes men hathe ben blamyd for their sclaunderous doyng / they graūte not that they haue tauchte a misse or crryd beforetyme / but yt they were constreinyd by peine to leaue to tell out the sothe / and thus they choese now rather to blaspheme god than to suffer awhile here persecucion bodely for sothefastnesse that Christe shed out his harte bloode for.

And the Archebisshop seid. That learnyng that thou callist trewthe and sothefastnesse is open sclaunder to holy chirche / as it is prouyd of holy chirche. For all be it / that Wicleff your autour was a great clerke & though that many men helde hym a perfite lyuer yet his doctrine is not approuyd of holy cherche but many sentencis of his learnyng ar dāpnyd as they well woorthy ar. But as touching Philip of Rāpeton yt was first chanone [Page] and after Abbot of Lacester which is now bisshop of Lincoln: I tell the that the daye is comen for wich he fastyd the euene. For nother he holdeth now / nor will holdethe learnyng that he thaughte whan he was a Chanon of Lacester. For no bisshop of this lāde persewith now more sharpely them that holde thy waye than he doeth.

And I seid. Syr full many men and women wonderith vpon hym and speakith hym mekill shame and holdith him for a cursid enemye of the treuthe.

And the Archebisshop seid to me. Wherfore tarieste thou me thus here with soche fables / wilt thou shortely (as I haue seid to the) submit the to me or no?

And I seid. Syr I tell you at one worde / I dare not for the drede of god submitt me to you after the tenour and sentēce that ye haue aboue rehersed to me.

And than as if he hadde ben wrothe he seid to one of his clerkis. Fetche hider quikely the certificaciō that came to me fro Shrewisbury vnder the bailiues seale witnessing the errours & heresies which this losell hath venemously sowen there.

Than hastely the Clerke tooke out / and leid forthe on a cupborde diuerse rollis and writingis / among which ther was a litle one / which ye clerke deliuered to the Archebisshop. And by & by the Archebisshop redde this rolle cōteinyng [Page] this sentence.

¶The thyrde sonday after easter the yere of oure lorde .M.CCCC. and seuen / William Thorpe came vnto the towne of Shrewisbury / and thorow leaue graunted vnto him to preache: He said openly in seynt Chaddis chirche in his sermone / that the Sacramēt of the altare after the consecracion was materiall brede. And ye ymages shulde in no wise be worshiped. And that men shulde not go on pilgremages. And that priestes haue no title to tythes. And that it is not lefull for to swere in any wise.

And whan the Archebishop had red thus thys rolle / he rolled it vp ageyn / and said to me. Ys this holsome learnynge to be amonge the people?

And I said to him. Syr I am both ashamed on their behalfe and right soroufull for thē that haue certified you thes thinges thus vntrewly: for I preached neuer nor taughte thus priuely nor apertly.

And the Archebishop said to me. I will gyue credence to thes worshipfull men which haue writen to me and witnessed vnder their sealis there amonge them. Though thou now deniest this: wenist thou yt I will geue credence to the? Thou losell hast trobled ye worshipful cominalte of Shrewisbury / so that the bailives and cominalte of that towne haue writen to me praynge me that am Archebishop of Caunterbury / primate and Chaunceler of Englond / that I will [Page] vouchsafe to graunte them / that yf thou shalt be made (as thou art worthy) to suffer open Iouresse for thyne heresyes / that thou maye haue thi youresse openly ther among them: so that all they whome thou and soche other loselles haue ther peruerted / may thorow feare of thy dede be reconsyled ageyn to the vnite of holy chyrche. And also they that stande in true faythe of holy churche may thorowe thy dede be more stablisshed therein. And as yf thys askyng hadde pleased the Archebishop / he said. By my thrifte this hartye prayoure and feruente requeste shall be thought on.

But certeynly nother the prayer of the men of Shrewisbery / nor the manassynge of the Archebishoppe made me any thinge a frayde. But in rehersyng of this malice and in the hearynge of it my herte greatly reioysed and yet dothe. I thanke god for the grace that I than thought and yet thinke shall come to all the chirche of god here thorowe / by the speciall mercyfull doynge of the lorde. And as hauynge no dreade of the malice of tyrauntes / by trustynge stedfastly in the helpe of the lorde with full purpose for to knowlege the sothefastnesse / and to stande thereby after my connyng and power I said to the Archebishop. Syr yf the truthe of gods worde might now be accepted as it sholde be / I doute not to proue by lykely euidence / that they that are famed to be out of the faythe of holy church in Shrewisbery & in other places also [Page] are in the true faith of holy chirche. For as their wordes sounde / and their workes shewe to mā nis iugemēt dreading & louyng faithfully god their will / their desyre / their loue / & their besinesse are moste sett to dreade to offende god / & to loue for to please him in true & faithfull keping of his commaundementes. And agene they yt are said to be in the faithe of holy chirche in Shrewisbery and in other places / by open euidence of their proude / enuiouse / maliciouse / couetouse lecherouse and other foule wordes & workes nother knowe nor haue will to knowe nor to occupye their wittes truely and effectuously in the righte faith of holy churche. Wherfore all these nor none that folowe their maners shall ony tyme come verely in the faithe of holy churche / excepte they enforce them more truelye to come in the waye whiche nowe they despyse. For these men and women that are nowe called feyth full and holden iuste / nother knowe nor will exercyse them selfe to knowe of faythfulnesse one commaundement of god. And thus full many men and women now / and specially mē that are named to be principall lymmes of holy church stiere god to greate wrathe and deserue his curse for that they call or holde them iuste men whiche are full vniuste as their vicyouse wordes / their greate customable sweringe / and their slaūderouse and shamefull workes shew openly and witnesse. And herefor soche viciouse men and vniuste in theire owne confusyon [Page] call them vniuste men and women / which after their power and conning besy them self to lyue iustely after the commaundement of god. And where syr ye say / that I haue distrobled the cominalte of Shrewisbery and many other men & women with my teaching / yf it thus be / it is not to be wondred of wise men / syns all the cominalte of the cyte of Ierusalem was destrobled off christes awne person that was very god & mā and most prudent precher that euer was or shal be. And also all the Synagoge of Nazareth was moued ageynste Christe and so fulfylled with ire towardes him for his preachinge / that the men of the Synagoge rose vp and cast ch [...]iste out of their cyte / and ledde him vppe to the toppe of a moūtayne for to caste him doune ther hedelinge. Also accordingly hereto the lord witnessyth by Moses / that he shall put dissension betwixt his people ād the people that contrarieth and persewith his people. Who syr is he yt shall preache the treuthe of goddes worde to ye vnfeithfull people / and shall let the sothe fastenesse of ye gospell & the prophecye of god almightye to be fulfilled?

And the archebishop said to me. It foloweth of thes thy wordes / yt thou & soche other thīkest yt ye do right well for to preach & teach as ye do without authorite of any bishope. For ye presume / that ye lorde hath chosen you only for to preache as faithfull disciples and speciall folowars of Christe

[Page]And I said. Syr by authorite of gods lawe & also of seintes & doctours I am learned to deme / yt it is euery priestes office and deutie for to preache besily frely and truely ye worde of god. For no doute euery priest shold purpose fyrst in his soule & couett to take ye order of priesthode chefly for to make knowē to ye people ye worde of god after his conning & power approuyng his wordes euer to be true by his vertuous workes and for this entent we suppose ye bishopes and other prelates of holy chirch shold chefely take & vse ther prelacie. And for the same cause / bishopes sholde gyue to priestes their orders. For bisshopes sholde accept no mā to priesthode except that he had good will & full purpose / & wer wel disposed / & well learned to preache. Wherfore syr by the bidding of Christ & by example of his moste holy lyuyng & also by ye witnessinge of his holy apostles & prophetes we are bounde vnder full great peyne to exercyse vs after our cōning and power (as euery prieste is like wise charged of god) to fulfyll dewly the office of priesthode. We presume not here of oure selfes for to be estemed (nother in oure owne reputaciō nor in none other mannes) feithfull disciples ād speciall folowers of Christe: but syr / as I said to you before / we deme this by authorite chefely of goddes worde / that it is ye chefe deutie of euery prieste to besy them feithfully to make ye law of god knowen to his people / and so to comune the cō maundement of god charitably howe that we [Page] may beste / where / whan / & to whome y• euer we may is our very deutie. And for the will & besynesse that we owe of dewe dette to do iustely our office thorow the steyring ād speciall helpe (as we truste) of god / hoping stedfastely in his mercye / we desyre to be the feithfull disciples of christe: and we praye this gracious lorde for his holy name / that he make vs able so to please hym with deuoute prayers and charitable priestly workes / that we may obteyne of him to folowe him thankfully.

And the Archebishop said to me. Lewde losell wherto makist thou soche veyne reasones to me. Asketh not seynt Paul / how sholde priestes preche / except they be sent? But I sent ye neuer to preche. For thy venemous doctryne is so knowen thorow out Englōd / yt no bishop will admitt the for to preache by witnessyng of their letters. Why than lewde ydiote willest thou presume to preach / syns thou art not sent nor licensed of thy souereyn to preach. Saith not seynt Paule / that subictes owe to obeye their souereyns / ād not only good and vertuous: but also tyrauntis that are vicious?

And I said to the archebishop. Syr / as touching your letter of licēce or other bishopes / whiche ye say we sholde haue to witnesse yt we wer able to be sent for to preache? we knowe well yt nother you syr / nor ony other bishop of this lande will graunte to vs ony soche letters of licence but we sholde oblige vs to you & to other bisshopes [Page] by vnlefull othes for to passe not ye bōdes & termes which ye syr or other bishopes wil lymyt to vs. And sins ī this matter your termis be some to large / & some to streite we dare not oblige vs thus to be boūdē to you for to kepe ye termes / which you will lymitt to vs / as ye do to friers & soch other prechers: & therfor though we haue not your letter sir nor letters of other bishops writē with ynke vpō perchemēt: we dare not here for leaue ye office of preching / to which preching all priestes after there cōnyng & power are bounde by diuerse testimonies of gods lawe & off great doctours without ony mēciō makīg of bishopes letters. For as mekell as we haue takē vpō vs ye office of priesthode (though we are vnworthy thereto) we come & purpose to fulfyll it with ye helpe of god by authorite of his owne lawe / and by witnesse of great doctours & seintes accordingly hereto trusting stedfastly in ye mercye of god. For yt he commaundeth vs to do the office of priesthode / he will be our sufficient letters & witnesse / if we by example of his holy lyuing & teaching specially occupye vs feithfully to do our office iustly / ye ye people to whome we preache / be they feithfull or vnfeithfull shall be our letters yt is our witnesse berers. For ye treuthe where it is sowen maye not be vnwitnessed. For all that are conuerted & saued by learninge of goddes worde and by working therafter are witnesse berers / yt the trewith and sothfastnesse whiche they harde and dyd after is cause off [Page] their saluacion. And ageyn / all vnfeythfull mē & womē which herde the treuthe tolde out to thē & wolde not do there after: also all they that might haue herde the treuthe and wold not heare it / because that they wolde not do thereafter / all thes shall beare witnesse ageinst them selfes / & the treuth which they wold not heare / or els harden & despised to do thereafter thorow their vnfeythfulnesse: is and shall be cause of their dāpnacion. Therfore syr / syns this forseide witnessing of god & of diuerse seintes & doctours / & off all ye people good & euyll sufficeth to all true prechers: we thinke that we do not ye office of presthode / if that we leaue our preaching / because yt we haue not or maye not haue dewly bisshopes letters to witnesse that we are sent of thē to preache. This sentence approueth seynt Paul / whe [...] he speketh of him selfe & of feithfull apostles & disciples saing thus. We neade no letters of cō mēdacion as some other preachers do / whiche preache for couetousnes of tēporall goodes ād for mēnes praising. And wher ye say syr yt paul biddeth subiectes obey their souereyns / this is soth / & may not be denied. But ther is .ij. maner of souereyns / vertuous sufferēys & vicious tyraūtes. Therfore to thes last souereyns nother mē nor womē yt be subiecte owe to obey ī .ij. maners To vertuous suffereins & charitable / subictes owe to obey wilfully & gladly / in hearīg of their good coūsell / ī cōsentīg to their charitable biddinges / & in werkynge after their frutefull workes [Page] This sentence Paul approueth wher he saith thus to subiectis. Be ye mindefull of your souereyns that speke to you the worde of god / and folow you the feithe of them whos conuersacion you know to be verteuous. For as Paul saith after / thes souereyns to whome subiectis owe to obeye in folowing of their maners / worke besily in holy studiyng / how they may withstande ād destroye vices firste in themself / and after in all their subiectis / and how they may bes [...]e plante in them vertues. Also thes souereyns make deuoute and feruent prayers for to purchase grace of god / that they ād their subiectis may ouer all thing dreade to offende hym & to loue for to please hym. Also thes souereyns to whome Paul biddeth vs obey as it is seid before lyue so vertuously that all they that will lyue well may take of them goode example to knowe and to kepe the commaundmentis of god. But in this foreseid wyse / subiectis owe not to obeye nor to be obedient to tyrauntis / while they ar vicious tyrauntis / syns their will / their counsell / their biddingis / ād their workis ar so vicious that they owe to be hatid and lefte. And though soche tyrauntis be masterfull and cruell in bostyng ād manasing in oppressions & diuerse punysshyngis: seynt Petyr biddeth the seruauntis of soche tyraūtis to obey mekely to soche tyrauntis / suffering paciently their malicious cruelnes. But Petyr counsellith not ony seruant or subiecte to obey to ony lorde or prince or souereyn in ony [Page] thyng that is not pleasing to god.

And the Archebesshop said vnto me. Yf a souereyn bidde his subiecte doo that thing that is vicious / this souereyn herein is to blame: but the subiecte for his obedience deserueth mede of god For obediēce pleasith more to god than ony sacrifice.

And I said. Samuel the prophete said to Saul the wickyd kyng / yt god was more pleased with the obedience of his commaundement than with ony sacrifice of bestis. But Dauid saith / and seynt Paul / and seynt Gregory accordingly to gither / that not onely they yt doo euyll is worthy of dethe ād dampnacion: but also all they that consente to euyll doers. And syr ye law of holy chirche teachith in the decrees / that no seruant to his lorde / nor childe to the father or mother / nor wyfe to hyr husbond / nor monke to his abot ought to obey except in lefull thingis & lawfull.

And the Archebisshop said to me. All thes allegingis that thou bringest forthe ar not els but proude presumptuousnes. For hereby thou enforcist the to proue / that thou and soche other ar so iuste / that ye owe not to obeye to prelatis. And thus agenst the learning of seynt Paul yt teachith you not to preache but if ye wer sent / of your owne authorite ye will go forthe and preache and doo what ye liste.

And I said. Syr / presentith not euery prieste the office of the apostles / or the office of the [Page] disciples of Christe? And the Archebisshop said ye. ¶And I said. Syr as the tenthe chaptre of Mathew and the laste chaptre of Marke witnesseth / Christe sent his apostles for to preache. And the tenthe chaptre of Luke witnesseth that Christe sent his two and seuentie disciples for to preache in euery place that Christe was to come to. And seynt Gregory in the comon lawe saith / that euery man that goth to priesthode takith vpon hym the office of preaching: for as he saith / that prieste steirith god to great wrathe of whos mouthe is not herde ye voice of preaching And as other more gloses vpon Ezechiel witnesse / that ye prieste that prechith not besily to the people shall be parte taker of their dampnacion that perisshe thorow his defaute: and though ye people besauyd by other speciall grace of god thā by ye priestis preachyng / yet the priestis / in ye they ar ordenyd to preache & preache not / as before god they ar mā [...]ears For as ferre as in thē is / soche priestes as preache not besily ād trewly sleeth all ye people gostely in that they with hold from thē the worde of god that is lyfe and sustenaūce of mēnis soules. And seynt Isidore saith Priestis shall be dāpnid for wickidnesse of the people / if they teache not thē yt ar ignorāt: or blame not thē yt ar synners. For all yt worke or besinesse of priestis stādith in preaching & teaching that they edifye all men as well by connyng of feithe / as by discipline of workes / that is vertuous teaching. And as the gospell witnessith: [Page] Christe said in his teaching. I am borne ād comē in to this worlde to beare witnesse to ye trewthe and he that is of the trewthe hearith my voice. ¶Than syr syns by the worde of Christe specially / that is his voice / priestis ar commaundid to preache: what so euer prieste that it be that hathe not goode will ād full purpose to doo thus / and ableth not hymself after his conning and power to doo his office by the example of Christe and of his apostles / what so euer other thing that he dothe displeasith god. For lo seynt Gregory saith / that thing lefte / that a mā is boūde chefely to doo / what so euer other thing that a man dothe / it is vnthankefull to ye holy goste: and therfore saithe Lincoln. That prieste that preachith not ye worde of god though he be siene to haue none other defaute / he is Antichriste and Sathanas / a night thefe / and a day thefe / a slear of soules and an angell of light toornid in to derkenesse Wherfore syr / thes authorites and other well considerid / I deme my self dāpnable / if Iother for pleasure or displeasure of ony creature applye me not diligētly to preache the worde of god. And in the same dampnaciō I deme all those priestis which of goode purpose and will enforse them not besily to doo thus / and also all them that haue purpose or will to lett ony prieste of this besinesse.

And the Archebisshop said to those thre clerkis yt stoode before hym. Lo syrs / this is ye maner and besinesse of this losell ād soche other to [Page] pike out soche sharpe sentencis of holy scripture and of doctoris to mainteine their secte and lore ageinste ye ordinaunce of holy chirche. And therefore losell it is that thou couetist to haue ageyn the psalter that I made to betakyn from yt at Cāturbery / to recorde sharpe versys a geīst vs. But thou shalt neuer haue that psalter / nor none other boke / tyll that I know that thy harte and thy mouthe accorde fully to be gouernid by holy chirche.

And I said. Syr all my will and power is and euer shall be (I truste to god) to be gouernyd by holy chirche

And the Archebisshop askid me / what was holy chirche.

And I said / syr I tolde you before / what was holy chirche: but syns ye aske me this demaunde: I call Christe and his seyntis holy chirche.

And the Archebisshop said vnto me. I wote well that Christe and his seyntis ar holy chirche in heuene / but what is holy chirche in erthe?

And I said. Syr though holy chirche be euery one ī charite / yet it hathe two partis. The firste and principall parte hath ouer comen perfitely all the wretchednesse of this lyfe / and reigneth ioyfully in heuene with Christe. And the tother parte is here yet in erthe / besily and continually fighting day and night ageinst temptacions of the fende / forsakyng and hatyng the prosperite of this worlde / despising and withstonding [Page] their flesschely lustis / which onely ar ye pilgrimes of Christe / wandering toward heuene by stedfast feithe / and groundid hope / and by perfite charite. For thes heuenly pilgremis may not / nor will not be lettid of their goode purpos by the reason of eny doctours discording fro holy scripture / nor by the fluddis of any tribulaciō temporall / nor by the winde of any pride of boste or of manasing of ony creature / for they ar all faste grounded vpon the suer stone Ch [...]iste / hearing his worde and louing it / exercising thē feithfully and continually in all their wittes to doo there after.

And the Archebisshop said to his clerkis. Se ye not how his harte is endured / & how he is traueled with ye deuill / occupiyng hym thus besely to allege soche sentencis to mainteyne hys errours and heresies? Certeyn thus he wold occupie vs here all daye / if we wold suffer hym.

One of the clerkes answered. Syr / he said right now that this Certificacion that came to you fro shrewisbery is vntrewly forged ageinst hym. Therfore Syr / appose you hym now here in all the poītis which ar certified ageinst hym and so we shall heare of his owne mouthe his answers / and witnesse them.

And the Archebisshop tooke the certificaciō in his honde / and looked theron a while / & than he said to me.

Lo here it is certified ageinst the by worthy [Page] men and feithfull of Shrewisbery yt thou preachedst there openly in seynt Chaddis chirche / that the Sacramēt of the altare was materiall brede after the consecracion. What saist thou? Was this trewly preached?

And I said / Sir I tell you trewly that I touchid nothing there / of the Sacrament of ye altare / but in this wyse / as I will with goddis grace tell you here. As I stoode ther in ye Pulpet / besiyng me to teache ye commaundement of god / ther knylled a sacring bell / ād therfore mekill people toornid awaye hastely / & with great noyse ran fro towardis me. And I seyng this said to them thus. Goode men ye wer better to stand here still & to heare goddis worde. For certis ye vertue & the mede of the moste holy Sacrament of ye altare standith mekill more in ye beleue thereof / yt ye ought to haue in your soule / thā it dothe in ye outward sighte thereof. And therfor ye were better to stande still quietely to heare goddis worde / because ye thorow ye hearing the rof men come to very trewe belefe. And other wyse syr I am certein I spake not there / of the woorthy Sacrament of the altare.

And the Archebisshop said to me. I beleue the not what so euer thou saist / syns so worshipfull men haue witnessed thus ageinst the. But syns thou denyest that thou saidist thus there / what saist thou now? Restith there / after the consecracion in the ofte materiall brede or no?

[Page]And I said / Sir / I knowe in no place in holy scripture / where this terme / materiall brede / is writen: and therfore Sir when I speake of this matter / I vse not to speake of materiall brede.

Than the Archebisshop said to me. How teachest thou men to beleue in this sacrament?

And I said / Sir as I beleue myself so I teache other men.

He said / tell out pleinly thy beleue hereof.

And I said with my protestaciō. Sir I beleue that the nyght / before yt Christe Iesu wold suffer wilfully passion for man kynde on ye morne after / he toke breade in his holy and moste worshipfull handis lifting vp his eyes / ād gyuyng thankis to god his father / blessed this breade and brake it / and gaue it to his disciples saiyng to them. Take and eate of this all you? This is my body: And that this is ād ought to be all mennis belefe Mathew / Marke / Luke / and Paul witnessith. Other beleue sir haue I none / nor will haue / nor teache / for I beleue yt this sufficeth in this matter. For in this beleue with goddis grace I purpose to lyue and dye / knoleging as I beleue and teache other men to beleue / that the worshipfull sacramēt of the altare / ys the sacramente of Christis flesche ād his bloode in fourme of breade and of wine.

And the Archebisshop said to me. It is sothe that this Sacrament is very Christis body infourme of breade. But thou and thy secrete [Page] chist it to be substaūce of brede. Thynke you this true teachinge?

And I said. Nother I nor ony other of the secte that ye dampne / teache ony other wyse thā I haue tolde you / nor beleue other wise / to my knowynge. Neuerthelesse syr I aske of you for charyte / that ye will tell me here pleynly / how ye shall vnderstonde this text of saynt Paule / wher he sayth thus. This thinge feale you in youre selfe that is in Christe iesu / while he was in the fourme of god. Sir / calleth not Paule here the fourme of god / the substaunce or kynde of god? Also Sir: saith not the chirche in the houres of the most blessed virgine accordi [...]ly hereto / where it is written thus. Thou auctour of healthe remembre / that sometyme thou toke of the vndefyled vyrgyne the fourme off oure bodye. Tell me for charyte therfore / whether the fourme of our bodye be called here the kynde of oure body or no?

And the Archebishop said to me. Woldest thou make me to declare this texte after thy purpose / syns the chirche hathe nowe determyned / yt there abideth no substaunce of breade after the consecracion in the sacrament of the altare? Beleuest thou not on this ordinaunce off the churche?

And I said. Syr what soeuer prelates haue ordened in the churche: our beleue standith euer hooll. I haue not herde that the ordinaunce off men vnder beleue / shulde be putt in to [Page] beleue. And the Archebishop saide to me. Yf thou hast not learned this before / learne now to knowe yt thou art out of beleue: if in this matter and other thou beleuest not as holy chirche beleueth. What saye doctours treatinge of this sacrament?

And I said. Syr seynt Paule yt was a greate doctour of holy chirche speakynge to the people and teaching them the right beleue of this moste holy sacrament calleth it breade that we breake. And also in the Canon of the masse after the consecracion / this most worthy sacramēt is called holy breade. And euery prieste in this lā de after that he hathe receyued this sacrament saythe in thys wyse. That thynge that we haue taken with oure mouthe / we praye god that we maye take it with a pure and clene mynde. That is as I vnderstonde / we praye god / that we maye receyue thorowe very beleue this holy sacrament worthely. And syr seynt Augustine saith. That thing that is sene is breade: but that mennys feithe asketh to be informed of / is verye christes body. And also Fulgence an ententyfe doctour saith. As it were an errour to saye that Christe was but a substaunce / that is very mā & not very god / or to say that Christe was very god & not very man / so is it (this doctour sayth) an errour to say / that the sacrament of the altar is but a substaunce. And also syr acordingly hereto in ye secrete of ye midde masse on Christe masse day it is writē thus. Idem refulsit deus / sic [Page] terrena substācia nobis cōferat qd diuinum est: which sentence syr with ye secrete of ye forth ferye quatuor temporū septembris. I pray you syr declare here openly in english.

And the Archebishop said to me. I perceiue well ynough wher about thou art / & how ye deuell blyndeth the / yt thou may not vnderstond ye ordinaunce of holy churche / nor consent therto. But I commaunde the now answere me shorly. Beleuest thou that after ye cōsecraciō of this forsaid sacrament there abideth substaunce off breade or not?

And I said. Sir as I vnderstond it is all one to graūte or to beleue / yt there dwelleth substaunce of breade / & to graūte & to beleue / yt this most worthy sacramēt of christes owne body is one accidēt without subiecte. But syr for as me kell as your asking passeth myne vnderstondīg I dare nother denye it nor graūte it / for it is skole mater / aboute which I besyed me neuer for to know it: & therfore I cōmit this terme / accidēs sine subiecto / to those clerkes which delyre thē so in curiouse & suttill sophistrie / because they determine oft so difficulte & straūge maters / & wade & wāder so in thē / frō argumēt to argumēt with pro & cōtra / till yt they wote not where they are nor vnderstonde not thēselfe. But ye shame that thes proude sophistrers haue to yelde them to men and before men maketh them ofte foolis / and to be concluded shamefully before god.

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[Page]And the Archebishop said to me. I purpose not to oblige the to the suttyll argumētes of clerkes / syns thou art vnable therto: But I purpose to make the obeye to the determinacion of holy churche.

And I said. Syr by open evidence and great witnesse a thousand yeare after the īcarnaciō of Christe ye determinaciō which I haue here before you rehersed was accepte of holy church as sufficient to the saluacion of all them that wolde beleue it faithfully and worke therafter charitably. But syr the determinacion of this mater which was brought in syns the fende was losed by frier Thomas agayn / specially calling ye moste worshipfull sacrament of Christes owne body an accident without subiecte / which terme syns I knowe not that goddes lawe approueth it in this mater I dare not graunte / but vtterly I denye to make this friers sentence or ony soche other my beleue / do with me god / what thou wilt.

And the Archebisshop saide to me. Well / well / thou shalt saye other wyse or that I leaue the.

§

BVt what saist thou to this secōde poynte yt is recorded ageinst yt by woorthy mē of Shrewisbury saing yt thou preachedst opēly there ye ymages oughte not to be worshipped in ony wise.

And I said. Syr I preached neuer thus / nor thorow gods grace I will not any tyme consent [Page] to thinke nor to saye thus nother pryuely nor apertly. For lo / the lorde witnesseth by Moses / yt the thinges which he made were righte good / & so than they were / and yet they are / and shall be good / and worshipfull in their kynde. And therfore to the ende that god made them to / they are all preisable and worshipfull and specially mā that was made after the ymage and likenesse of god is full worshipfull in his kynde / ye this holy ymage that is man / god worshippeth. And herefore euery man shulde worshippe other in kynde / and also for heuenly vertues that mē vse charitably. Also I saye / woode / tynne / gold / syluer / or any other mater that ymages are made of / all these creatures are worshipfull in theire kynde and to the ende that god made them for. But the keruyng / castyng / nor peyntyng of ony ymagery made with mannes hande / all be hit that this doing be accepte of man of hyest state and dignite / and ordened of them to be a kalendar to leude men that nother can nor will be learned to know god in his worde / nother by his creatures nor by hys wonderfull and diuerse workīges: yet this ymagery ought not to be worshipped in the forme nor in the likenesse of mannes crafte / neuerthelesse that euery mater yt peinters peynte with / syns it is gods creature ought to be worshipped in the kynde / & to ye ende yt god made & ordened it to serue man.

Than ye archebishop said to me. I graunt well that no body oweth to do worshippe to any soche [Page] ymages for thē selfe. But a crucifyxe ought to be worshipped for the passion of christe that is peynted there in and so brought ther thorow to mannes mynde: and thus the ymages of the blessed trinite / ād of virgyn Mary christes mother / and other ymages of sayntes ought to be worshipped. For lo earthely kynges and lordes which vse to send their letters ensealid with their armes or with their preuy signet to men that are with them / are worshipped of thes mē. For whā thes mē receiue their lordes letters in whiche they se & knowe the willes & biddīges of their lordes / in worshippe of their lordes they do of their cappes to thes letters. Why not than / sins in ymages made with mannes hande / we may rede and knowe many diuerse thinges of god / and of his sayntes / shall we not worshippe their ymages?

And I sayde with my forsaid protestacyon. I saye that these worldly vsages of temporall lordes that ye speake now of / maye be done in case without synne / but thys is no similitude to worship ymages made by mānes hande / syns yt Moses / Dauid / Salomon / Baruch / & other seyntes in the bible forbidde so pleynly ye worshipyng of all soche ymages.

Than the archebishop said to me. Lewde losell In the olde lawe before that christe toke mākind was no likenesse of any persone of ye trinite nother shewed to mā nor knowē of mā: but nowe syns christe became mā / it is lefull to haue ymages [Page] to shewe his māhode. Ye though many mē which are right greate clerkes & other also helde it an errour to peynte ye trinite. I say it is well done to make and to peynte the trinite in ymages. For it is great mouing of deuocion to mē to haue and to behold the trinite and other ymages of seyntes caruyd / caste / and peynted. For beyonde the see are the beste peynters that euer I saw. And syrs / I tell you this is their maner ād it is a goode maner. Whan that an ymage maker shall kerue / caste in moulde / or peynte ony ymages / he shall go to a prieste and shryue him as clene / as if he sholde than dye and take penaunce / and make some certeyn vowe of fastyng or of praiynge / or of pilgrimages doinge / praiyng the prieste / specially to praye for hym / that he may haue grace to make a faire and a deuoute ymage.

And I said. Syr I doute not / yf thes peynters that ye speake of or ony other peynters vnderstode truely the texte of Moses / of Dauid / of the wise man / of Baruch and of other seyntes and doctoures / these peynters sholde be moued to shryue them to god wyth full inwarde sorowe of harte / takynge vpon them to doo right sharpe penaunce for the synfull and vayne crafte of peyntinge / karuynge or castinge that they had vsed / promising god feithfully neuer to do so after / knowleging openly before all mē theyr reprouable earnīg. And also syr thes priestes yt shriue (as ye do say) peinters & inioyne thē to do [Page] penaunce / and praye for theire spede promysyng to them helpe of their prayers for to be curious in their synfull craftes: synne herein more greuously thā the peynters. For thes priestes do comforte and gyue them counsell to do that thynge / which of great peyne / ye / vnder the peyne of goddes curse they sholde vtterly forbydde them. For cerris syr / yf the wonderfull werking of god and the holy lyuynge and teachynge off Christe and off his apostles and prophetes were made knowen to the people by holy lyuynge and true and besy teachynge of priestes: these thynges (syr) were sufficient bokes and kalendares to knowe god by and his sayntes without ony ymages made with mannes hond: but certis the vicious lyuynge of priestes and their couetousnesse are chefe cause of this errour and all other viciousnesse that reigneth among the people.

Than the archebishop said vnto me. I holde yt a vicious priest & a curste / & all thē that are of thy secte: for all priestes of holy chirche / and all ymages that moue men to deuocion / thou & soche other go about to destroye. Loosell / ware it a feire thing to come in to a chirche / and see therin none ymage?

And I said. Syr they that come to the chyrche for to pray deuoutly to the lorde god may in their inwarde wittes be ye more feruent / that all their outwarde wittes be closed fro all outwarde seynge and hearing and fro all distroblaūce [Page] and lettyngis. And syns Christe blessed them yt saw hym not bodely / and haue beleuyd feith fully in hym: It sufficeth than to all men thorow hearing and knowing of goddis worde / and to doo there after for to beleue in god / though they see neuer ymagis made with mannis hande after ony Person of the trinite or of ony other seynte.

And the Archebisshop said to me with a feruēt spyrite. I say to ye Losell / that it is right well done to make and to haue an ymage of the trinite Ye what saist thou? Ys it not a stiering thing to beholde soche an ymage?

And I said. Sir ye said right now that in ye olde lawe or Christe toke mankynde / no likenesse of ony person of the trinite was shewid to men: wherfore sir ye said it was not thā lefull to haue ymagis / but now ye say syns Christe is becomen man / it is lefull to make & to haue an ymage of the trinite and also of other seyntis. But syr this thing wolde I learne of you. Syns the father of heuen / ye and euery person of the trinite was without beginnyng god almighty / & many holy prophetis that wer dedely men wer martiresed violently in the olde lawe / and also many men and women than died holy confessours Why was it not than as lefull and necessarie as now to haue made an ymage of the father of heuen / and to haue made & hadde other ymagis of martires / prophetis / and holy cōfessours to haue ben kalendaris to aduise men ād [Page] moue them to deuocion / as ye say that ymagis now doo?

And ye Archebisshop said. The sinagoge of Iues hadde not authorite to approue thes thingis as ye chirche of Christe hathe now.

And I said. Sir seint Gregory / was a great man in ye new lawe / and of great dignite / ād as ye comon lawe witnesseth / he cōmendid greatly a bisshop / in yt he forbadde vtterly ye ymagis made with mannis hande sholde be worshipid.

And ye Archebisshop said. Vngracious losell thou fauerist nomore trewthe than an hounde / Syns at ye roode at ye northe dore at London / at our lady at walsingam ād many other diuerse placis in England ar many great and preisable miracles done: shulde not the ymagis of soche holy seyntis and placis at ye reuerence of god and our lady & other seyntis be more worshippid than other placis and ymagis wher no soche miracles ar done?

And I said. Sir ther is no soche vertue in ony ymagery that ony ymagis sholde herefore be wors [...]hippid / wherfore I am certein yt ther is no miracle done of god in ony place in erthe because that ony ymagis made with mānis hā de sholde be worshippid. And herefore sir as I preached openly at shrewisbery and other placis I say now here before you / yt no body sholde truste that ther war ony vertue in ymagery made with mannis hande / and herefor no body [Page] sholde vowe to them / nor seake them nor knele to them nor bow to them / nor pray to them / nor offer any thing to them / nor kysse them / nor ensence them. For lo the most worthy of soche ymagis / the brasen serpente by Moyses made / at goddis bidding. The goode kyng Ezechie destroied worthily and thankefully: for bycause it was encensed. Therfore sir yf men take goode hede to the writing and to the lerning of seynt Augustine of seynt Gregory and of seynt Iohn Crisostome / ād of other seyntis & doctours how they speake & write of miracles that shall be done now in ye laste ende of ye worlde: it is to dreade yt for ye vnfeith fulnesse of men & women the fende hath great power for to worke many of ye miracles yt now ar done in soche placis. For bothe men & women delyte now more for to heare & knowe miracles / than they doo to knowe goddis worde or to heare it effec [...]uously. Wherfore to ye great cōfusion of all thē yt thus doo: Christe saith. The gnāciō of aduolteres requireth tokyns / miracles & wōders. Neuer thelesse as diuerse seyntis say / now whan ye feithe of god is publisshed in christēdome / ye worde of god sufficeth to mānis saluaciō without soche miracles: & thus also ye worde of god sufficeth to all feithfull mē & womē without ony soche ymagis / but goode sir / syns ye father of heuē yt is god in his godhed is ye moste vnknowē thīg yt may be ād ye moste wōderfull spyrit / hauyng in it no shape or likenesse of ony mēbres of oni dedely creature [Page] In what likenesse or what ymage may god the father be shewid or peintyd?

And the Archhebisshop said. As holy chirche hathe sufferid and yet sufferith the ymagis of all the trinite and other ymagis to be peyntid and shewid / sufficeth to them that ar membres of holy chirche But syns thou art a rotten membre cutt away frome holy chirche thou fauerest not the ordinaūce therof. But syns the daye passith / leaue we this mater.

ANd than he said to me. What saist thou to ye thirde poynte yt is certified against the preching openly in shrewisbery that pilgrimage is not lefull. And ouer this thou saidist / that those men and women that go on pilgrimagis to Cāturbery / to Beuerley / to karlington / to walsingame and to ony soche other placis ar acursed and made foolisch spending their goodes in waste.

And I said / sir by this certificacion I am accused to you that I sholde teache / that no pilgrimage is lefull. But I said neuer thus. For I knowe that ther be trew pilgrimagis and lefull and full plesaunt to god / and therfore sir how so euer myne enemies haue certified you of me I tolde at shrewisbery of two maner of pilgrimagis.

And the Archebisshop said to me / whome callest thou trewe pilgrimes?

And I said. Sir with my protestaciō I call them trew pilgremis trauelyng toward ye blisse [Page] of heuen which in the state / degre / or ordre ye god calleth them / doo besy them feithfully for to occupie all their wittes bodely and gostely to knowe trewly and to keape feithfully the biddinges of god / hatyng and fleyng all the seuen dedely synnes and euery braunche of thē reulyng them verteuously (as it is said before) with all their wittes / doyng discretely wilfully & gladly all the werkis of mercy bodely and gos [...]ely after their connyng and power / ablyng them to the gyftes of the holy goste disposing them to receyue in their soules and to holde therin the right blessinges of Christe beseyng them to knowe ād to kepe the seuene principall vertues / and so thā they shall obteyne here thorow grace for to vse thankfully to god all the condicions of charite / and than they shall be moouyd with the good spirite of god for to examyne ofte and diligently their conscience / that nother wilfully nor wittingly they erre in ony article of beleue / hauyng continually (as frailte will suffer) all their besinesse to drede and to flee the offence of god / ād to looue ouer all thing and to seke euer to doo his plesaunt will. Of these pilgremis I said / what so euer goode thoughte that they ony tyme thinke: what verteuous worde that they speake: and what frutefull worke that they worke: euery soche thoughte / worde and werke is a steppe noū bered of god toward hym into heuene. Thes for said pilgremis of god / delyte sore whan they heare of seyntis or of verteuous men & women [Page] how they forsoke wilfully the prosperite of this lyfe / how they withstode the suggestion of the fende / how they restreined their fleschly lustes / how discrete they wer in their penaunce doyng how pacient they wer in all their aduersites / how prudent they wer in counseling of men & women moouyng them to hate all synne and to flye them / ād to shame euer greatly there of and to loue all vertues and to drawe to them / ymaginyng how Christe and his folowers by exā ple of hym / suffered skornis and sclaunders / & how paciently they abode and toke the wrongfull manasyng of tyrauntis / how homely they wer and seruisable to poore men to relieue and comforte them bodely and gostely after their power and connyng / and how deuote they wer in praiers / how feruent they wer in heuenly desyres / and how they absented them fro spectacles of veyne seyngis and hearingis / and how stable they wer to lett and to destroye all vices / ād how laborious ād ioifull they wer to sowe & to plante vertues. Thes heuenly condicions ād soche other haue ye pilgremis / or endeuer thē for to haue: whose pilgrimagie god acceptith And ageyne I saide / as their werkis shew / the moste parte of men and women that go now on pilgrimagis haue not thes forsaid condicions / nor loueth to besy them feithfully for to haue For as I well know syns I haue full ofte assaide / examyne who so euer will twentie of thes pilgremis: and he shall not fynde thre men or women [Page] yt knowe surely a cōmaundmēt of god / nor can say their Pater noster and Aue maria / nor their Credo redely in ony maner of langage. And as I haue learnid and also know somwhat by experience of thes same pilgremis rellyng the cause / why that many men and women go hither and thither now on pilgrimagis / it is more for the helthe of their bodies than of their soules / more for to haue richesse and prosperite of thys worlde / than for to be ēryched with vertues in their soules / more to haue here worldely and fleschely frendship / than for to haue frendship of god & of his seintis in heuen. For what so euer thing man or woman dothe / the frendship of god nor of ony other seynt cā not be hadde without keaping of goddis commaundemē tis. Forther with my protestacion I say now as I said in shrewisbery / though they that haue fleschely willes trauell fer their bodies and spē de mekill money to seake and to visite the bonys or ymagis (as they say they do) of this seynte or of yt: soche pilgrimage goyng is nother praisable nor thākefull to god nor to ony seinte of god: syns in effect all soche pelgrimes despise god & all his cōmaūdmētis & seyntis. For ye cōmaūdmētis of god they will nother knowe nor keape / nor cōforme thē to lyue verteuosly by example of Christe & of his seyntis. Wherfor syr I haue prechid & taucht opēly / & so I purpose all my lyfe time to do with gods helpe / saīg yt soche fōde people wast blamefully gods goods in their veyne [Page] pilgrimagis / spending their goodes vpon vicious hostelars / which ar ofte vnclene women of their bodies: and at the leste those goodes with the which thei sholde doo werkis of mercie after goddis bidding to poore nedy men and women. ¶Thes poore mennis goodes and their lyuelode thes runnars about offer to riche priestis / which haue mekill more lyuelode than they neade / And thus those goodes they waste wilfully and spende thē vniustely ageinst goddis bidding vpon straungers / with which thei sholde helpe and releue after goddis will their poore nedy neighbours at home: ye & ouer this foly / ofte tymes diuerse men and women of thes runners thus madly hither ād thither in to pilgrimage borowe hereto other mennis goodes / ye and some tyme they stele mennis goodes hereto / and they pay them neuer agein. Also sir I know well that whan diuerse men & women will go thus after their own willes & fynding out one pilgrimage / they will orden with them before to haue with them bothe men ād women that can well synge wanton songes / and some other pilgremis will haue with them bagge pipes / so that euery towne that they come throwe what with the noyse of their syngyng / ād with the sounde of their piping / and with the Iangelyng of their Canterbery bellis / and with the barkyng out of doggis after them that they make more noyse than if ye kyng came there awaye with all his clarions and many other menstrelles. [Page] And if thes men and women be a monethe out in their pilgrimage / many of thē shall be an halfe yeare after greate iangelers / tale tellers and lyers.

And the Archebishop said to me. Leude losell thou seest not ferre ynough in this mater / for thou cōsiderest not the great trauell of pilgremys therfore thou blamest that thing that is praisable. I say to yt that it is right well done / that pilgremys haue with them bothe syngers & also pipers that whan one of them that goeth barfote striketh his too vpon a stone ād hurteth hym sore / and maketh hym to blede: it is well done that he or his felow begyn than a songe / or els take out of his bosome a baggepype for to dryue away with soche myrthe the hurte of his felow. For with soche salace the trauell and werinesse off pylgremes is lightely and merily broughte forthe.

And I said. Sir seynt Paule teacheth men to wepe with them yt wepe.

And the archebishoppe saide. What ianglist thou ageinst mēnis deuociō / what soeuer thou or soch other say / I say that the pilgrimage that now is vsed is to thē that doo it / a praysable & a good meane to come the rather to grace. But I holde the vnable to know this grace: for thou enforsestthe to lett ye deuocion of the people: syns by authorite of holy scripture men maye lefully haue & vse soche solace as thou reprouest. For Dauid in his laste psalme teacheth me to haue [Page] diuerse instrumētes of musike for to prayse ther with god.

And I saide. Sir by the sentence of diuerse doctours expounding the psalmes of Dauid / ye musike and menstrelcy that Dauid & other seyntes of the olde lawe spake of / owe now nother to be taken nor vsed by the letter / but thes instrumē tes with theire musike ought to be interpreted gostely: for all those figures are called vertues and grace / with which vertues men shold please god and prayse his name. For saynt Paule saith. All soche thynges befell to them in figure. Therfore sir I vnderstonde that the letter of this psalme of Dauid / and of soche other psalmes and sentences dothe slee them that take thē now letterally. This sentence I vnderstond syr Christ approueth him self putting out the menstrelles / or that he wolde quycken the deade damsell.

And ye archebishop saide to me. Leude losell / is it not lefull to vs to haue organes in ye chirche for to worship therwith all god? And I said

Ye syr by mannys ordynaunce / but by the ordinaunce of god a goode sermonne to the peoples vnderstondyng were mekill more plesaunt to god.

And the Archebisshoppe sayde / that organes and goode delectable songe quyckened and sharpened more mennys wyttes than sholde ony sermonne.

But I said. Sir lusty men and worldly louers [Page] delyte & coue [...]e & trauell to haue all theire wittes quickened & sharpened with diuerse sensible solace: but all ye feithfull louers & folowers of Christe haue all their delyte to heare goddis worde / and to vnderstond it truely / and to worke therafter faithfully and continually. For no doute to dreade to offende god / and to loue to please him in all thing quyckeneth and sharpeneth all the wittes of christes chosen people: and ableth thē so to grace / that they ioye greatly to withdrawe their eares / & all their wittes ād membres frome all worldly delyte and frome all fleschly solace. For seynt Ierome (as I thinke) saith. No body may ioye with this worlde ād reigne with Christe.

And the Archebishop (as yf he had ben displeased with myne answere) said to his clerkes. What gesse ye this ydiote will speke ther / wher he hath none dreade: syns he speaketh thus nowe here in my presēce? Well well / by god thou shalt be ordened for. And than he spake to me all angerly.

WHat saist thou to this forthe poynte / yt is certified ageinst the preching opēly ād boldely in Shrewisbery / ye priestes haue no title to tythes.

And I said. Sir I named ther no worde of tithes in my preaching. But / more thā a moneth after that I was arreasted / there in prysone a man came to me in to the prysone askynge me what I sayde of tythes. And I saide to him. [Page] Sir in this towne are many clerkes & priestes of which some are called religious mē though many of them be seculers. Therfore askeye off them this question. And this man saide to me. Sir our prelates say / that we ar also obliged to paye oure tythes of all thinges that renewe to vs / and that they ar acursed / yt with drawe ony parte wittingly fro them of their tythes. And I said (syr) to that man / as with my protestacyon I say now here before you: that I hadde wonder that ony prieste dare say / men to be acursed with out grounde of goddis worde. And ye mā said. Sir our priestes say that they curse mē thus by authorite of goddes lawe. And I sayde. Sir I knowe not wher this sentence of cursing is authorised now in the bible. And therfor syr I praye you that ye will aske the moste connīg clerke of this towne / that ye may knowe where this sentence cursynge them that tythe not now is writen in goddes lawe: for yf it were writen there I wolde right gladly be learned where. But shortely this man wolde not go from me / to aske this question of a nother body / but required me there / as I wolde answere before god / if in this case the cursing of priestes wer laufull and approued of god. And shortely herewith came to my mynde the learnyng of seynt Peter / teachīg priestes specially to halow ye lord christ in their hartes: beinge euermore redye (as ferre as in thē is) to answere thorowe faith & hope to thē yt aske of thē a reasō. And this lesson Peter [Page] teacheth mē to vse with a meke spyrite & with dreade of ye lorde. Wherfore syr / I said to this man in this wise. In the olde lawe which endyd not fully till the tyme yt christe rose vp ageyn fro dethe to lyfe) god commaunded tythes to be gyuē to the leuites for the great besynesse & dayly trauell that pertayned to their office: But priestes / because their trauell was mekyll more easy and light / thā was the office of the leuites: god ordeyned that priestes sholde take for their lifelode to do their office / ye tenth parte of tho tythes that wer geuē to the leuites. But naw (I said) in the newe lawe nother Christe nor ony of hys apostles toke tythes of the people / nor cōmaunded the people to pay tythes nother to priestes / nor to deacons. But Christe taught the people to do almesse / that is werkes of mercy / to poore nedy mē of surpluse / that is superfluouse of their temporall goodes which they hadde more thā them nedid reasonably to their necessary lyuelode. And thus (I said) not of tythes / but of pure almesse of the people Christe lyued and his apostles / whan they were so besyre in teachynge off the worde of god to the people that they myght not trauell other wyse for to gett their lyuelode. But after Christes ascensyon / and whan the apostles had receyued ye holy goste / they traueled with theire handes for to get theire lyuelode / whan that they myght thus doo for besye preachynge. Therfore by example of hymselfe seynt Paule teacheth all the priestes of Christe for to [Page] trauell with theire hande / whan for besye teachyng of the people they myght thus do. And thus all these priestes whose priestehode god accepteth nowe / or will accepte or dyd in the apostles tyme / and after their discease: will do to the worldes ende. But (as Cisterciensis telleth) in the thousande yeare of oure lorde Iesu Christe / two hundreth and a leuenth yere / one pope the tenth Gregory ordened new / tythes fyrst to be gyuen to priestes nowe in the newe lawe. But seynt Paule in his tyme whose trace or example all priestes of god enforce them to folowe / seyng the couetousnesse that was amonge the people desyrynge to destroye this foule synne thorow the grace of god / and true vertuouse lyuynge and example of hymselfe: wrette and taucht all priestes for to folowe him as he folowed Christe paciently / wyllyngly and gladly in hye pouerte. Wherfore Paule saithe thus. The lorde hathe ordened that they yt preache the gospell shall lyue of the gospell. But we (saith Paul) that couet & besy vs to be feithfull folowers of Christ / vse not this power. For lo (as Paule witnesseth afterwarde) whan he was full pore and nedy preaching among the people: he was not chargeous vnto them / but with his handes he traueled not onely to get his owne lyuynge / but also ye lyuyng of other poore & nedy creatures. And syns the people was neuer so couetouse nor so auarouse (I gesse) as thei ar now it were good counsell / yt all priestes toke good hede to [Page] this heuenly learnyng of Paul / folowimg him here / in wilfull pouerte / nothinge charging the people for their bodely lyuelode. But because ye many priestes do contrary Paule in this forsayde doctryne: Paul biddeth the people take hede to those priystes that folow him as he had geuē them example. As / if Paul wolde say thus to ye people. Accepte ye none other priestes than thei that lyue after the fourme that I haue tauchte you. For certeyn in what soeuer dignite or ordre that ony prieste is in / yf he conforme him not to folowe Christe and his apostles in wilfull pouerte / and in other heuenly vertues / and specially in true preachynge of goddes worde: though soche a one be named a prieste / yet he is no more but a prieste in name / for the worke of a verye prieste soch a one wanteth. This sentence approueth Augusttne / Gregory / Chrisostome / & Lincon̄ playnly.

And ye archebishop said to me. Thinkest thou this holsome learninge for to sowe openly or yet priuely among ye people? Certeyn this doctryne cōtrarieth playnly ye ordinaunce of holy fathers which haue ordened graūted & licenced priestes to be in diuerse degres / & to lyue by tythes & offringes of ye people & by other deuties.

And I said. Sir / if priestes wer now in mesurable mesure & numbre / & lyued vertuously / & taucht besyly & truely the worde of god by example of Christ and of his apostles: withouten tythes / offerynges / and other dewties yt priestes [Page] nowe chalenge & take / y• people wolde gyue thē frely sufficient lyuelode.

And a clerke said to me. How wilt thou make this good that ye people will gyue frely to priestes their lyuelode / syns yt now by ye lawe euery prieste cā scarcely cōstrayne ye people to gyue thē their lyuelode?

And I said. Sir it is now no wonder though the people grudge to gyue pristes the lyuelode that they aske: for mekill people knowe nowe how that priestes shulde lyue / ād how that they lyue contrary to Christe and to his apostles. And therfore the people is full heuy to paye (as they do) their temporall goodes to persones ād to other vicares and priestes / whiche sholde be feithfull dispensatours of the pareshes goodes taking to themselfes nomore but a scarce lyuīg of tythes nor of offrynges by the ordinaunce of the comon lawe. For what soeuer priestes take of the people: be it tythe or offering or ony other deutie or seruyce: the priestes ought not to haue thereof nomore but a bare lyuyng / ād to departe the residew to the poore men & women specially of the parishe / of whome they take this temporall lyuynge. But the most dele of priestes nowe wasteth their pareshes goodes ād spendeth thē at their owne will after the worlde in theire veyne lustes / so that in fewe places poore mē haue dewly (as they sholde haue) their owne sustenaunce / nother of tythes nor of offerynges / nor of other large wages & foundacions yt priestes [Page] take of ye people in diuerse maners aboue it that they nede for nedefull sustenaunce of meate and clothinge. But ye poore nedy people ar forsaken and lefte of priestis to be susteinyd of ye paroshenis / as if the priestis toke nothing of ye paroshenis / for to helpe ye poore people with. And thus syr into ouer greate chargis of the paroshenis they pay their tēporall goods twise / wher ones myght suffice / if priestis wer trew dispensatours. Also sir the paroshenis that pay their tē porall goodes (be they tythes or offeringes) to priestis that doo not their office among them iustely / ar parteners of euery synne of those priestis: because that they susteyne those priestis foly in their synne with their tēporall goods. Yf thes thinges be well considerid what wonder is it than sir / if the paroshenis grudge ageinst thes dispensatours?

Than the Archebisshop said to me. Thou y• sholdeist be iudged and reulyd by holy chirche / presumptuously thou demest holy chirche to haue erryd in the ordinaunce of tyhes ād other dewties to be payd to pristis. Yt shall be long or thou thryue Losell / that thou despicest thy gostely mother. How darist thou speake this Losell among the people? Ar not tythes geuyn to priestis for to lyue by?

And I said. Sir seynt Paul saith that tythes wer gyuen in the olde lawe toleuytes ād to priestis / that came of the lynage of Leui / But our priest he saith came not of the lynage of Leui / [Page] but of ye lynage of Iuda: to which Iuda no tythes w [...]re promised to be geuyn. And therfore Paul saith / syns the priesthode is chaūged fro the generacion of Leui to the generacion of Iuda / it is necessarie yt chaungyng also be made of ye lawe. So yt priestis lyue now without tythes and other dewties yt they now claime / folowing Christe and his apostles in wilfull pouerte / as they haue gyuen them example. For syns Christe lyued all ye tyme of his preaching by pure almose of the people / and by example of hym his apostles lyued in ye same wyse / or els by the trauell of their hādis / as it is said aboue Euery prieste whose priesthode Christe approuyth knowith well / and confessith in worde / & in werke that a disciple owith not to be aboue his master / but it sufficeth to a disciple to be as his master / symple / and pure / meke and pacient: & by exāple specially of his master Christe / euery prieste sholde reule hym in all his lyuyng / and so after his connyng & power a prieste sholde besy hym to enfourme & to reule whome so euer he myght charitably.

And the Archebisshop said to me with a great spirite Goddis curse haue thou and myne for this teaching: for thou woldist hereby make ye olde law more fre ād perfite than the new law. For thou saist that it is lefull to leuites and to priestis to take tythes in the olde lawe / and so to enioye their priuelegies: but to vs priestis in the new lawe thou saist it is not lefull to take tyhes. [Page] And thus thou geuist leuytes of the olde lawe more fredome than to priestis of the new lawe

And I said. Sir I meruell / that ye vnderstonde this playne texte of Paul thus. Ye wote well / that the leuites and priestes in the olde lawe that toke tythes wer not so fre nor so perfite as Christe and his apostles that tooke no tythes And sir there is a doctour (I thinke yt it is seynt Ierome) that saith thus. The priestis that chalenge now in the new lawe tythes / say in effecte / that Christe is not becomen man / nor that he hath yet suffered dethe for mannis loue. Wherfore this doctour saith thys sentence. Syns tythes wer the hyres and wagis limyted to leuites and to priestes of the olde lawe for bearing about of the tabernacle / and for fleayng and fleayng of beastis / and for burning of sacrifice / ād for keping of the temple / and for tromping of battell before the oste of Israel / and other diuerse obseruauncis that perteinyd to their office: those priestis that will chalenge or take tythes: denye that Christe is comen in flesshe and doo ye priestis office of the olde lawe for whome tythes wer graūted: for els (as this doctour saith) priestis take now tythes wrongfully.

And the Archebisshop said to his clerkes. Herde ye euer losell speake thus? Certeyn this is the learnyng of them all / yt wher so euer they come / and they may be suffered / they enforce [Page] them to expugne the fredome of holy chirche.

And I said. Sir why call you the takyng of tythes and of soche other dewties that priestes chalenge now wrongfully the fredome of holy chirche: Syns nother Christe nor his apostles chalengid nor tooke soche dewties. Herefore thes takyngis of priestis now ar not callyd iustely the fredome of holy chirche / but all soche geuyng and takyng ought to be called and holden the sclaunderous couetousnesse of men of ye holy chirche.

And the Archebisshop said to me. Why Losell wilt not thou and other that ar confedered with the / seake out of holy scripture and of the sentēce of doctours all sharpe authorites agēst lordis and knyghtis and squyeris and ageinst other seculer men / as thou doeste ageynst priestes?

And I said. Sir what so euer men or womē lordis or ladies or ony other that ar present in our preaching specially or in our cōmunyng after our connyng we tell out to thē their office ād their charges: but sir syns Chrisostome saith yt priestis ar the stomake of ye people / it is nedefull in preaching and also in communyng / to be moste besy aboute this priesthode / syns by the viciousnes of priestis both lordis and comons ar moste synfully infected and ledde into the worste. And because that ye couetousnes of priestis / & pride and the boste yt they haue & make of their dignite and power / destroieth not onely [Page] the vertues of priesthode in priestis them selfe but also ouer this / it stierith god to take greate vē geaunce both vpon lordis and vpon comons which suffer thes priestes charitably

And the Archebisshop said to me. Thou iudgest euery prieste proude yt will not go arayed as thou doste. By god I deme hym to be more meke that gothe euery day in a scarlet gowne / than thou in ye threde bare blew gowne. Wherby knowest thou a proude man?

And I said. Sir a proude prieste may be knowen when he denyeth to folow Christe / and his apostles in wilfull pouerte and other vertues and couerith worldly worship / and taketh it gladly / and gatherith to gither with pletyng manasyng / or with flattering or with simony ony worldly goodis: and moste if a prieste besy hym not chefely in hymself and after in all other men and women after his connyng ād power to withstond synne.

And the Archebisshop said to me. Though thou knewest a prieste to haue all thes vices / ād though thou sawest a prieste louely lye now by a woman knowing hir fleschly: woldest thou herfore deme this prieste dampnable? I say to the that in the tournyng about of thy hande soche a synner may be verily repented.

And I said. Sir I will not dāpne any mā for any synne that I know done or may be done / so that the synner leuyth his synne. But by authorite of holy scripture / he that synneth thus [Page] openly as ye shewe here / is dāpnable for doyng of soche a synne / & moste specially a prieste that sholde be example to all other for to hate ād flie synne: and in how short tyme yt euer ye say that soche a synner may be repented: he oweth not of hym that knoweth his synnyng to be iudged verily repentaunt / without open euidence of greate shame & harty sorow for his synne. For who so euer & specially a prieste that vseth pride / enuy / couetousnes / lechery / simony / or ony other vices: and shewith not as opyn euidence of repentaunce as he hath gyuen euyll example and occasion of synnyng / if he contynew in ony soche synne as long as he may / it is likely that synne leaueth hym / and he not synne / ād as I vnderstonde soche a one / synneth vnto dethe / for whome no body oweth to pray / as seynt Iohn saith

And a clerke said than to the Archebisshop. Sir the lenger that ye appose hym / the worse he is: and the more that ye besy you to amende him the waiwarder he is: for he is of so shrewde a kynde / that he shamyth not onely to be hymself a foule neste: but without shame he besiech hym to make his neste fouler.

And the Archebisshop said to his clerke [...] Suffer a while / for I am at an ende with him for ther is one other poynte certified ageynst hym / and I will heare what he saith therto.

ANd so than he said to me. Lo it is here certified ageinst the / that thou preachidst openly at shrewisbery / that [Page] it is not lefull to sweare in ony case.

And I said. Sir I preachid neuer so openly / nor I haue not tauchte in this wyse in ony place. But sir as I preachid in shrewisbery / with my protestacion I say to you now here: yt by the authorite of ye gospell ād of seynt Iames and by witnesse of diuerse seyntis & doctours I haue preachid openly in one place or other that it is not lefull in ony case to sweare by ony creature. And ouer this sir I haue also preachid ād tauchte by ye forsaid authorites yt no body shold sweare in ony case / if yt without othe in ony wyse he yt is charged to sweare myght excuse hym to thē yt haue power to compell hym to sweare in lefull thyng & laufull. But if a mā may not excuse hym without othe to thē yt haue power to cōpell hym to sweare / than he owght to sweare onely by god / takyng hym onely yt is sothefastnesse / for to witnesse the sothefastenesse.

Anb than a Clerke askid me / yf it wer not lefull to a subiecte at the bidding of his prelate for to knele downe and towche the holy gospell booke and kysse it sayng: So helpe me god and this holy dome / for he sholde after his connyng and power doo all thyng that his prelate commaundeth hym. ¶And I said to thē. Sirs ye speke here full generally or largely What if a prelate commaūded his subiecte to doo an vnlaufull thing / shold he obey therto?

And the Archebisshop said to me A subiecte ought not to suppose that his prelate will bidde [Page] him doo an vnlaufull thīg For a subiecte ought to thinke / yt his prelate will bidde hym doo nothīg but yt / he will answere for before god yt it is lefull: & thā though ye bidding of ye prelate be vnliefull / ye subiecte hath no parell to fulfill it syns that he thinketh ād iudgeth that what so euer thing his prelate biddeth hym doo / that it is lefull to hym for to doo it.

And I said. Sir I truste not hereto. But to our firste purpose / sir I tell you yt I was onys in a gentill mannis house / and there war than two clerkes there. A master of diuinite / & a man of lawe / which mā of lawe was also comuning in diuinite. And among other thinges thes mē spake of othes / and the man of lawe said. At ye bidding of his souereyn which hadde power to charge hym to sweare / he wold lay his hande vpon a booke and heare his charge / and if his charge to his vnderstonding wer vnlefull / he wolde hastely with draw his hande frome the booke: ād if he perceiued his charge to be lefull he wolde holde still his hande vpon ye booke takyng there onely god to witnesse / that he wolde fulfill that lefull charge after his power. And the master of diuinite said than to hym thus. Certeyn he that leyeth his hande vpon a booke in this wyse ād makyth there a promesse to doo that thing that he is commaunded / is obliged there / by booke othe than to fulfill his charge. For no doute he that chargeth hym to lay his hande thus vpon a booke / towching the booke & [Page] swearing by it / ād kyssing it / promisyng in this fourme to doo this thyng or that / will say & witnesse that he that towcheth thus a booke and kysseth it hath sworne vpon that booke: and all other men that see that man thus doo / and also all tho that heare hereof in the same wyse wyll saye and witnesse / that thys man hathe sworne vpon a boke / wherfore the master of diuinite sayde. Yt was not lefull nother to gyue nor to take ony soche charge vpon a boke / for euery boke is nothing els but diuerse creatures of whiche it is made of. Therfore to swere vpon a boke is to sweare by creatures / and this swearinge is euer vnlefull. This sentence witnesseth Chrisostome playnly blaming them greatly that bringe forthe a boke for to sweare vpon / charginge clerkes that in no wise they constrayne ony body to sweare / whether they thinke a man to sweare true or false.

And the Archebishop and his clerkes scorned me & blamyd me greatle for this saiyng. And ye Archebishop manassed me with great punisshement and sharpe / except I lefte this opinion of swearinge.

And I saide. Sir this is not myne opinion / but it is the opinion of christ our sauyour / and of seynt Iamis & of Chrisostome ād other diuerse seyntes & doctours.

Than the Archebishope badde a clercke rede this homely of Chrisostome which homely thys clerke helde in his hande writen in a roll / which [Page] rolle the Archebisshope caused to be taken fro my felow at Canterbury: and so than this clerke redde this rolle till he came to a clause / wher Chrisostome saithe / that it is synne to sweare well.

And than a clerke Malueren (as I gesse) said to ye archebishop. Sir I praye you wete of hī how yt he vnderstōdeth Chrisostome here / saing it to be synne to swere well.

And so y• Archebisshop asked me how I vnderstode here Chrisostome.

And certeyn I was somewhat afraide to answere hereto. For I had not besyed me to study about the sense thereof / but lyfting vp my mynde to god I prayed him of grace. And as faste as I thought how Christe said to his apostles / whā for my name ye shal be brought before iudges I shall gyue into your mouth wisdome that youre aduersaryes shall not ageynst saye: & trusting feithfully in the worde of god. I said. Sir I know well that many men and women haue now swearing so in custome / that thei know not nor will not knowe that they do euell for to sweare as they do / but they thīke & say yt they do well for to sweare as they do / though they know wel yt they sweare vntruely. For they saye / they maye by their swearing (though it be false) voide blame or temporall harme which they sholde haue yf they sweare not thus. And sir many mē & women maynteyne strongly that they sweare well whan that thinge is sothe that they sweare for. [Page] Also full many men and women say nowe / that it is well done to sweare by creatures / whā they maye not (as they saye) otherwise be beleued. Annd also full many men and women now say that it is well done to sweare by god / and by oure ladye / and by other seyntes for to haue thē in mynde. But syns all these saiynges ar but excusations and synne / me thinketh sir that his sentēce of Chrisostome may be alleged well ageinste all soch swerers / witnessing that all thes synne greuously / though they thinke themself for to sweare in this forsaid wyse well. For it is euyll done and greate synne for to sweare trewthe whan in ony maner / a man may excuse hī with out othe.

And the archebishop said / that Chrisostome might be thus vnderstonde.

And than a clerke said to me. Wilt thou tarye my lorde no lenger / but submit the here mekely to the ordinaunce of holy chirche and laye thyne hande vpon a booke touching the holy gospell of god / promysynge not onely with thy mouthe but also with thyne harte to stande to my lordes ordinaunce?

And I said. Sir haue I not told you here / howe that I herde a master of diuinite say that in soche a case it is all one to touche a boke / and to sweare by a boke?

And ye archebishop said. There is no master of diuinite in Englond so greate / that yf he hold thys opinion before me / but I shall punisshe [Page] him as I shall do the / except thou sweare as I shall charge the.

And I said. Sir is not Chrisostome an ententyfe doctour?

And the Archebishop saide. Ye.

And I sayde. Yf Chrisostome proueth hym woorthy greate blame that bryngeth forthe a booke to swere vppon / it muste nedes folowe that he is more to blame that sweareth on that booke.

And the Archebishop said. Yf Chrisostome ment accordingly to the ordinaunce of holy chirche we will accepte him.

And than said a clerke to me. Ys not the worde of god & god himself equipollent / that is / off one authorite? And I saide. Ye.

Than he said to me. Why wilt thou not swere than by the gospell of god / yt is gods worde / syns it is all one to sweare by ye worde of god / & by god himselfe.

And I said. Sir / syns I may not nowe other wyse be beleued but by swearynge I perceyue (as Augustine saithe) that it is not spedefull yt ye that shold be my brothern sholde not beleue me: therfore I am redy by the worde of god (as the lorde commaunded me by his worde) to sweare.

Than the clerke said to me. Laye than thyne hāde vpō ye boke touching ye holy gospell of god and take thy charge.

And I said. Sir I vnderstonde that the holy [Page] gospell of god maye not be touched with mannes hande.

And the clerke saide. I fonded / and that I sayde not trewthe.

And I asked this clerke whether it wer more to reade the gospell or to touche ye gospell.

And he said / it was more to reade ye gospell.

Than I said. Sir by authorite of seynt Ierome the gospell is not the gospell for reding of ye letter / but for ye beleue that men haue in ye worde of god / that it is the gospell that we beleue / and not the letter yt we rede: for because the letter yt is touched with mannes hande is not the gospell / but ye sentence that is verely beleued in mā nis hart is ye gospell. For so seynt Ierome saith The gospell that is the vertue of goddes worde is not in ye leauys of ye boke / but it is in ye roote of reason. Nother the gospell (he saith) is in ye writing aboue of the letters / but the gospell is in the marking of y• sentence of scriptures. This sentence approueth seynt Paule saiynge thus. The kyngdome of god is not in worde but in vertue. And Dauid saith. The voice of ye lorde that is his worde is in vertue. And after dauid saith. Thorow the worde of god / ye heuens were fourmed / & in the spirite of his mouth is all the vertue of them. And I pray you syr / vnderstonde ye well how Dauid saith / that in ye spirite of the mouth of ye lorde is all the vertue of angells and of men?

And the clerke said to me. Thou woldest make [Page] vs to fonde with the. Saye we not ye the gospell is are writen in ye masse boke?

And I sayde. Syr though men vse to saye thus / yet it is vnperfyte speche. For the principall parte off a thinge is properlye the hooll thynge· For lo / mannes soule that may not now be sene here / nor touched with ony sensible thing is properly man. And all the vertue of a tree is in the roote thereof that maye not be sene / for do awaye the roote / and the tree is destroyed. And syr as ye sayde to me right nowe / god and hys worde are of one authorite / and syr seynte Ierome witnesseth that Christe very god and very man is hidde in the letter of his lawe: thus also syr the gospell is hidde in the letter. For sir as it is full likely many diuerse men and women here in the erthe touched Christe and sawe hym and knewe his bodely persone whiche nother touched nor sawe nor knewe gostely his god hede: right thus sir many men now touche and see / and write and rede the scriptures of goddis lawe / whiche nother touche / see nor rede effecctuallye the gospell. For as the godhede of Christe that is the vertue of god is knowen by the vertue thorow belefe / so is the gospell / yt is Christes worde.

And a clerke said to me. Thes be full mystie maters and vnsauery that thou shewest here to vs.

And I said. Sir / if ye that ar masters know not playnly this sentence ye may sore drede that [Page] the kingdome of heuene be taken fro you / as it was fro the princes of priestes & fro the elders of the iewes.

And than a clercke (as I gesse) Malueren sayde to me. Thou knowest not thyne equiuocacyons / for the kyngdome of heuene hathe diuerse vnderstondinges. What callest thou the kingdome of heuene in this sentence that thou shewest here?

And I said. Sir by good reason & sentence of doctours y• realme of heuene is called here ye vnderstonding of gods worde.

And a clerke said to me. Frome whō thinkest thou that this vnderstondinge is taken awaye?

And I said. Sir by authorite of Christe him selfe the effectuall vnderstondinge of Christes worde is taken awaye from all them chefely / whiche are greate lettered men and presume to vnderstonde hyghe thynges / and will be holden wise men / and desyre mastershippe and hye stare and dignite / but they will not conforme them to ye lyuyng & teaching of Christe and off his apostles.

Thā the Archebishop said. Well / well / thou wilt iudge thy souereyns. By god the kyng doeth not his deutie / but he suffer the to be condempned.

And than a nother clerke said to me. Why on friday that last was / counseldest thou a man off my lordes / that he sholde not shriue him to man but onely to god?

[Page]And with this askyng I was abasshed / ād than by and by I knewe that I was suttely betrayed of a man that came to me in presone on the friday before comunynge with me in thys mater of confessyon / and certeyn by his wordes (I thoughte) that this man came than to me of full feruent and charitable wyll: But nowe I knowe he came to tempte me and to accuse me (god forgyue him yf it be his will). And with all myne harte whan I hadde thoughte thus I said to this clercke. Sir I pray you that ye wolde fetche this man hither / & all the wordes as nere as I can repete them whiche that I spake to hym on fridaye in the pryson I will reherse nowe here before you all and before hym.

And (as I gesse) the Archebishop said thā to me. They yt are now here suffyse to repete them. How saidest thou to him?

And I said. Sir that man came and asked me of diuerse thinges / and after his▪ askynge I answered hym (as I vnderstoode) that goode was: and as he shewed to me by his wordes / he was sory of his lyuynge in courte and right heuy for his owne vicious lyuynge / and also for the viciousnesse of other men and speciallye of priestes euyll lyuynge: and herefore he sayde to me with a soroufull harte) as I gessed) yt he purposed fully within shorte tyme for to leaue ye courte / & besye him to knowe gods lawe / and to conforme all his lyfe thereafter. And whan he [Page] hadde said to me thes wordis & mo other / which I wolde recherse and he wer present / he praied me to heare his confession. And I said to hym sir / wherfore come ye to me to be cōfessed of me / ye wote well that the Archebisshop puttith and holdith me here as one vnworthy other to gyue or to take any Sacrament of holy chirche. And he said to me. Brother I wote well ād so wote many mo other / that you and soche other ar wrongfully vexed / and herefore I will comon with you the more gladly. And I said to hym. Certeyn I wote well that many mē of this courte & specially the priestis of this housholde wolde be full euyll a payde both with you & with me if they wiste / that ye wer cōfessed of me And he said that he cared not therfore / for he hadde full litle affeccion in them: and (as me tought) he spake thes wordis and many other of so goode will and of so hye desyre for to haue knowen and done the plesant will of god. And I said than to hym as with my fore said protestacion I say to you now here. Sir I counsell you for to absente you frome all euyll company and to drawe you to them that looue ād besy thē to knowe and to keape the preceptis of god: and than the good spirite of god will mooue you for to occupie besily all your wittes in gathering to gither of all your synnes as ferre as ye can bethinke you / shamynge greatly of them and sorowyng hartely for them / ye sir the holy goste will than put in your harte a goode will & a feruen [...] [Page] desyre for to take and to holde a goode purpose to hate euer and to flie (after your connyng and power) all occasion of synne / ād so than wysdome shall come to you frome aboue / lightenyng with diuerse beamis of grace and of heuenly desyre all your wittes / enfourmyng you how ye shall truste stedfastely in the mercie of the lorde knoulegyng to hym onely all your vicious lyuyng / praiyng to hym euer deuoutely of charitable counsell and cōtinuance / hoping without doute that yf ye cōtynew thus besiyng you feith fully to knowe and to kepe his biddīgis that he will (for he onely may) forgyue you all your synnes. And this man said than to me. Though god forgyue men their synnes / yet it behoouyth men to be assoyled of priestis and to doo the penaunce that they enioyne them. And I said to hym. Sir it is all one to assoyle men of their synnes / and to forgyue men their synnes: Wherfor syns it perteinyth onely to god to forgyue synne / Yt suffisith in this case to counsell men ād women for to leaue their synne / and to comforte thē that besye them thus to doo for to hope stedfastely in the mercie of god. And ageynwarde / priestis owght to tell sharpely to customable synners / that if they will not make an ende of their synne / but contynew in diuerse synnes while yt they may synne / all soche deserue peyn without any ēde. And herefore priestis sholde euer besy them to lyue well and holily ād to reache the people besely and trewly the worde of god / shewīg [Page] to all folke in open preaching and in preuy coū selyng that the lorde god onely forgeuyth synne. And therfore those priestis that take vpō thē to assoyle men of their synnes / blaspheme god: syns that it perteinyth onely to ye lorde to assoyle men of all their synnes. For no doute A thousande yeare after that Christe was man / no prieste of Christe durste take vpon hym to teache the people nother priuely nor a pertly / that they behoouyd nedis to come to be assoilid of them / as priestis now doo. But by authorite of Christis worde / priestis boūd indured customable sīners to euerlasting peynes / which in no tyme of their lyuyng wolde besy thē feithfully to know ye biddinges of god / nor to keape thē. And ageyn all they that wolde occupie all their wittes to hate ād to flie all occasion of synne / dreding ouer all thing to offende god / ād loouyng for to please hym cōtinually / to thes men & women / priestis shewid how ye lorde assoileth thē of all their synnes. And thus Christe promysed to conferme in heuē all ye bindīg & loosyng / yt priestis by authorite of his worde bynde mē in synne yt ar indured therin / or loose thē out of synne here vpō erthe yt ar verely repētaūt. And this mā hearīg thes wordis said / yt he myght well ī cōsciēce cō sent to this sentēce But he said / is it not nedeful to ye lay people yt cā not thus doo / to go shriue thē to priestis? & I said yf a mā feale hīself so distrobled with ony sīne yt he cā not by his owne witte auoide this synne without coūsell of thē yt ar herein wyser than he In soche a case ye counsell [Page] of a goode prieste is full necessarie. And if a good prieste faile as they doo now comonly / in soche a case seynt Augustine saith that a man may lefully comon and take counsell of a verteuous seculer man. But certeyn that man or woman is ouer laden ād to bestely / which can not brynge their owne synnes into their mynde / besiyng them nyght and day for to hate and to for sake all their synnes / doyng a sighe for them after their connyng and power. And sir full acordingly to this sentence vpon midlenton sonday two yeare (as I gesse) now agone / I harde a monke of Feuersam / that men called Moredō preache at Cāterbury at the crosse within Christe chirche Abbey saiyng thus of confession. As thorow the suggestion of the fende without coū sell of any other body that of themself many mē and women can ymagine and fynde meanys & wayes inough to come to pride / to thefte / to lecherie / and to other diuerse vyces: In contrarie wyse this monke said. Syns the lorde god is more redy to forgyue synne than the fende is or may be of power to mooue ony body to synne / than who so euer will shame and sorow hartely for their synnes / knouleging them feithfully to god / amending them after their power and connyng / without counsell of ony other body than of god and hymself thorow the grace of god all soche men and women may fynde sufficient meanys to come to goddis mercie / and so to be clene assoilid of all their synnes. This sentence I [Page] said sir to this man of yours and the selfe wordis as nere as I can gesse.

And the Archebisshop said. Holy chirche approuyth not this learnyng.

And I said. Sir holy chirche of which Christe is hed in heuene and in erthe must nedys approue this sentence. For lo hereby all men and women may / if they will / be sufficiently tauchte to know and to kepe the commaundementis of god / and to hate and to flie centinewally all occasion of synne / and to looue ād to seke vertues besely / and to beleue in god stabely / and to truste in his mercy stedfastly / and so to come to perfite charite and contynew therein perseuerancly. And more the lorde askith not of ony man he renow in this lyfe And certeyn syns Iesu Christe dyed vpon the crosse wilfully to make men fre / men of the chirche ar to bolde and to besy to make men thrall / byndyng them vnder the peyne of endelesse curse (as they say) to doo many obseruances and ordinaūcis / which nother the lyuyng nor teaching of Christe nor of his apostles approueth.

And a clerke said than to me. Thou shewist playnely here thy disceite which thou haste learnyd of thē that trauell to sowe popill amōg wheate. But I coūsell the to go away clene frome this learnyng / and submyt the lowly to my lorde / and thou shalt fynde hym yet to be gracious tothe.

And as faste than a nother clerke said to me [Page] How wast thou so bolde at Paulis crosse in lō dō to stōde there harde with thi tippet boūden about thyne hedde ād to repreue in his sermonne the woorthy clerke Alkerton drawyng away all yt thou myghtist / ye and ye same day at after none thou metyng yt woorthy doctour in Watlyng strete callidst hym salfe flaterer & ypocrite

And I said. Sir I thynk certeinly that there was no man nor wooman that hated verely synne and loouyd vertues / hearing the sermonne of the clerke of Oxforde / and also Alkertons sermonne / but they sayd or myght iustely say / yt Alkerton reproouyd the clerke vntrewly / and sclaundered hym wrongfully and vncharitably. For no doute if the lyuyng and teaching of Christe chefely and of his apostl̄es be trewe / no body that loouyth god ād his lawe will blame any sentēce that the clerke than preachid there / syns by authorite of goddis worde ād by approued seyntis and doctours and by open reason this clerke approued all thingis clerly that he preached there.

And a clerke of the Archebishops said to me. His sermonne was false & yt he shewith openly syns he dare not stāde forthe & defende his preaching that hethan preached there.

And I said. Sir I thinke that he purposith to stāde stedfastely thereby / or els he sclaūdereth foully hym self and also many other that haue greate truste / that he will stande by the trewith of the gospell. For I wote well his sermonne is [Page] written bothe in latyne and in Englysch / and many men haue it / and they sett great pryse thereby. And sir if ye wer present with the Archebisshop at lambeth whan this clerke apered and was at his answer before y• Archebisshop ye wote well that this clerke denyed not there his sermonne / but two dayes he maynteinyd it before the Archebisshop and his clerkis.

And than the Archebisshop or one of his clerkis said / I wote not which of thē. That harlot shall be met with for that sermonne. For no man but he and thou and soche other false harlotis praisith ony soche preaching.

And than the Archebisshop said. Your cursed sec [...]e is besy / & it ioiethe right greatly to contrarie & to destroye ye priuilege & fredome of holy chirche. ¶And I said. Sir I knowe no men that trauell so besely as this secte dothe (which you repreue) to make reste & peace in holy chirche. For pride couetousnesse & simony which distrooble moste holy chirche this secte hatith & fliethe & trauellith besely to mooue all other mē in lyke maner vnto meaknesse & wilfull pouerte & charite / & fre ministryng of ye sacramētis: this secte louyth ād vsith ād is full besy to mooue all other folk is thus to doo. For thes vertues owe all mēbres of holy chirche to their hedde Christe

Than a clerke said to ye Archebisshop. Sir it is ferre daies ād ye haue ferre to ryde to nyght / therfore make an ende with hī / for he will none make. But ye more sir yt ye besy you for to drawe [Page] hym toward you / the more contumax he is made and the ferder fro you.

And than Malueren said to me. William knele downe and praye my lorde of grace / and leaue all thy fantasies and become a childe of holy chirche.

And I said. Sir I haue praied the Archebisshop ofte and yet I pray hym for the looue of Christe that he will leaue his indignacion that he hathe ageinst me / and that he will suffer me after my connyng and power for to doo myne office of priesthode / as I am chargid of god to doo it. For I couete nought els but to serue my god to his pleasing in the state yt I stāde in and haue taken me to.

And the Archebisshop said to me. Yf of good harte thou wilt submyt the now here mekely to be reulid fro this tyme forthe by my counsell / obeiyng mekely and wilfully to myne ordinaunce / thou shalt fynde it moste profitable and beste to the for to doo thus. Therfore tary thou me no lenger / graunte to doo this that I haue said to the now here shortely / or denye it vtterly.

And I said to the Archebisshop. Sir owe we to beleue that Iesu Christe was and is very god and very man?

And the Archebisshop said. Ye.

And I said. Sir owe we to beleue / that all Christis lyuyng and his teaching is trewe in euery poynte. And he sayd. Ye.

And I said. Sir owe we to beleue / that the [Page] lyuyng of ye apostles & the teaching of Christe & of all the proph̄etes are true which ar writen in the bible for the helth and saluacion of goddes people? And he said. Ye.

And I saide. Sir owe all christen men & women after their connyng and power for to conforme all their lyuynge to the teachyng specially of Christe / and also to the teaching and lyuynge of his apostles and of prophetes in all thinges that are plesaunt to god and edificacion to his churche? And he said. Ye.

And I said. Sir ought ye doctrine / ye bidding or ye counsell of ony body to be accepted or obeid vnto / excepte this doctrine / thes biddinges or this counsell may be graunted and affermed bi christes lyuyng and his teachinge specially / or by the lyuyng and teaching of his apostles and prophetes?

And ye Archebishop said to me. Other doctrine oughte not to be accepted / nor we owe not to obey to any mānes bidding or counsell / excepte we cā perceyue yt this bidding or counsell acordeth with ye bidding & teaching of christ & of his apostles and prophetes.

And I said. Sir is not all the learninge ād biddinges and counsellis of holy chirche meanes and healfull remedies to know and to with stond the preuy suggestions / & the aperte tēptacions of the fende: and also wayes and healfull remedies to slee pride & all other dedely synnes & the braūches of thē / & souereyn meanes to purchese [Page] grace / for to withstonde and ouercome all the fleschly lustes and mouynges?

And the Archebishop saide. Ye.

And I said. Sir what soeuer thing ye or ony other body bid or counsell me to do / accordī gly to this forsaid learning / after my connynge & power thorowe ye helpe of god I will mekely with all myne harte obey therto.

And the Archebishop sayde to me. Submitt the than now here mekely and wilfully to the ordinaunce of holy churche / which I shall shewe to the.

And I said. Sir accordingly as I haue here nowe before you rehersed I will now be redy to obeye full gladly to Christe the hede off all holy churche / and to the learnynge and biddynges and counselles off euery pleasynge membre of hym.

Than the archebishop striking with his hande ferselye vpon a cupborde spake to me with a greate spyrite sayng. By Iesu but yf thou leaue soche addicions obliging the now here without ony excepcion to myne ordinaūce / or yt I go out of this place I shal make the as sure as ony thefe that is in ye pryson of Lantern. Aduyse ye nowe what thou wilt do. And thā as if he hadde ben angered he went fro the cupborde where he stode to a wyndowe.

And than Malueren and a nother clerke came nerer me / and they spake to me many wordes full plesantly / & a nother while they manased [Page] me / and counselled full besily to submyt me or els they sayde. I sholde not escape ponishing ouer mesure / for they saide I sholde be degraded / cursed and burned / and so than dampned But now they said thou maiste eschewe all these mischeues / yf thou wilt submyt the wilfully and mekely to thys worthy prelate that hath cure of they soule. And for the pytie of Christe (said they) bethinke the / howe greate clerckes the bisshop of Lincoln̄ / Herforde / & Purney / wer & yet ar / and also. B. that is a well vnderstondinge man / which also haue forsaken and reuoked all the learnynge and opinions / that thou and soche other holde. Wherfore syns eche of them is mekell wyser than thou arte / we counsell the for the beste / that by the example off thes foure clerckes thou folowe them / submyttynge the as they dyd.

And one of the bishopes clerkes said thā there / that he herde Nicoll Herforde say / that syns he forsoke and reuoked all the learning and Lolardes opiniōs / he hathe had mekell greater fauour and more delyte to holde ageinst them / thā euer he hadde to holde with them while he helde with them.

And therfore Maluerē said to me. I vnderstonde & thou wilt take yt to a priest / & shryne the clene / forsake all soch opinions / & take thy penaunce of my lord here / for the holding & teaching of thē / with in shorte tyme thou shalt be greatly conforted in this doing.

[Page]And I sayde to the clerckes that thus besyly counselled me to folowe these forsaide men. Sirs if thes men of whome ye counsell me to take example / had forsaken benefyces of temporall profyte / and of worldly worshippe / so that they had absented them and eschewed frome all occasyons off couetousnesse and of fleschely lustes / and had taken them to symple lyuynge / and wilfull pouerte / they hadde herein geuen goode example to me and to many other to haue folowed them. But now syne all thes foure men haue slaunderously and shamefully done the contrarye / consentyng to receyue and to haue and to holde temporall benefyces / lyuynge now more worldly and more fleschely than they did before conformyng them to the maners off this worlde: I forsake them herein / & in all their forsaid slaunderous doynge. For I purpose with the helpe of god in re remission of all my synnes & of my foule cursed lyuyng to hate & to flye priuely & apertly to folow thes mē / teaching & counsellyng whome soeuer that I may for to flye & eschewe the waye that they haue chosen to go in / whiche will lede them to the worste ende / if in conuenient tyme they repente them not / verely forsakynge and reuokynge openly the slaunder that they haue put ād euery daye yet put to Christes churche. For certeyn so open blasphemye and slaunder as they haue spoken and done in their reuokynge ād forsakyng of the trewthe ought not / nor maye not priuely be amended [Page] dewly. Wherfore sirs I praye you that ye be sye you not for to mooue me to folowe these men in reuokynge and forsakynge of the trewthe and sothefasienesse as they haue done and yet doo / wherein by open euydence they steire god to greate wrothe / and not onely ageynst them selfe but also a geynste all them that fauoure them or consente to them herein / or that comeneth with them / excepte it be for their amendement. For where as thes men firste were persued of enemyes / now they haue obliged them by othe for to slaunder and persue Christe in his membres Wherfor as I truste stedfastely in the goodnes of god / the worldly couetousnesse / and the lustie lyuyng / and the slyding fro the treuth of these runagates shall be to me and to many other men and women an example and an euidence to stondethe more stifly by the trewith of Christe

For certeyn / right many men and women doo marke and abhorre the foulnesse and cowardnesse of these forsaide vntrewe men / howe that they are ouercome and stopped with benefyces and withdrawen fro the trewith off goddes worde / forsaking vtterly to suffer therfore bodely persecucyon. For by this vnfeithfull doynge and apostosie of them specially that ar great lettered men / & haue knowleged openly the treuth & now other for pleasure or displeasure of tyrantes haue takē hyer & temporal wages to forsake the trewthe & to holde ageinst it / slaundering ād persewing them that couete to folowe Christ in [Page] the waye of rightuousnesse / many men and women therfore are nowe moued. But many mo thorow ye grace of god shall be moued hereby for to learne ye treuth of god / & to doo thereafter and to stond boldely thereby.

Than the Archebisshoppe sayde to his clerkes. Besy you no lenger aboute hym / for he and other soche as he is are confedered so to gither that they will not sweare to be obedient / and to submytte them to prelates of holy chirche. For nowe syns I stode here / his felowe sent men worde that he will not sweare / and that he counselled hym that he sholde not sweare to me. And losell in that thynge that in the is / thou haste besyed the to loose thys yonge man / but blessed be god / thou shalt not haue thy purpose of hym. For he hath forsaken all thy learnynge / submyttynge hym to be buxum and obedient to the ordinaunce of holy churche / and wepeth full bitterly / and curseth the full hartely for the venemous teachynge whiche thou haste shewed to hym / counsellynge hym to doo thereafter. And for thy false councellynge of many other and hym thou haste greate cause to be righte sory. For long tyme thou haste besyed the to peruerte whom soeuer thou mightest Therfore as many deathes thou arte worthy of as thou hast geuen euell councelles. And therfore by Iesu thou shalt go thyther / where Nicoll Harforde and tom Puruay were herbered And I vndertake / or thys daye eyghte dayes [Page] thou shalt be righte gladde for to doo wha [...] thynge that euer I bydde the doo. And losell I shall assaye if I can make yt there as soroufull (as it was tolde me) thou waste gladde of my laste going out of Englond. By seynt Thomas I shall tourne thy ioye into sorowe.

And I sayde. Sir / there can no body preue laufully that I ioyed euer of the maner of youre goynge out of this lande. But sir to saye the sothe I was ioyfull whan ye were gone / for the bisshop of London in whos pryson ye lefte me / founde in me no cause for to holde me lenger in his pryson / but at the requeste of my frendes he deliuered me to them asking of me no maner of submittyng.

Than the archebishoppe saide to me. Wherfore that I yede out of Englond is vnknowen to the: But be this thinge well knowen to the / that god (as I wote well) hath called me ageyne and broughte me into this lande for to destroyethe and the false secte that thou arte off / as by god I shall persue you so naroulye / that I shall not leaue a steppe off you in thys lande.

And I said to the archebisshop. Sir the holy prophete Ieremy said to the false prophete Anany. Whan the worde that is the prophecye of a prophete is knowen or fulfilled / than it shall be knowen that the Lorde sent the prophete in treutthe

And the Archebishoppe as if he hadde no [...] [Page] ben pleased with my saiynge turned hym away warde hyther and thyther / and sayde. By god I shall sette vpon thy shynnes a paire of perlis that thou shalt be gladde to chaunge thy voice.

Thes & many mo wōderous & cōvicious wordes wer spoken to me manassing me & all other of the same secte for to be punisshed & destroyed vnto the vttermoste.

And the Archebishop called than to hym a clerke / & rowned with him / & that clerke wēt forthe & sone he brought in the Constable of Saltwode castell / and ye archebishop rowned a good while with hym / and than the Constable went forthe / and than cam in diuerse seculers / and they scorned me no euery syde / ād manassed me greatly. And some counselled the Archebisshop to burne me by and by / and some other counselled hym to drounde me in the see / for it is nerehande there.

And a clerke standyng be syde me there knelede downe to the Archebishoppe praiyng hym that he wolde delyuer me to hym for to saye matenes with hym / and he wolde vndertake that within thre dayes I sholde not resiste any thynge that were commaunded me to doo of my prelate.

And the archebishop said / that he wold ordeine for me himselfe.

And than after came in ageyn ye Constable & spake priuely to ye archebishop.

[Page]And than the Archebisshop commaunded the constable to lede me forthe thens with hym and so he did. And whan we wer gone forthe thens / we wer sent af [...]r ageyn. And whan I came in ageyne before the Archebisshop / a clerke badde me knele downe and aske grace / and submit me lowly / and I sholde fynde it for the beste.

And I said than to the Archebisshop. Sir as I haue said to you diuerse tymes to day / I will wilfully and lowly obey and submit me to be ordenid euer after my connyng and power to god and to his lawe / and to euery member of holy chirche / as ferre forth as I can perceyue that thes mēbres accorde with their hedde Christe and will teache me / reule me / or chastyse me by authorite specially of goddis lawe.

And the Archebisshop said. I wiste well he wolde not without soche addicions submit hym

And than I was rebukyd / scornyd and manasyd on euery syde / and yet after this diuerse persones cried vpon me to knele downe ād submit me / but I stoode still and spake no worde. And than there was spokyn of me ād to me many greate wordis / and I stoode ād herde them manase / curse & scorne me: but I said nothing

Than a while after the Archedisshop said to me. Wilt thou not submit the to the ordinance of holy chirche?

And I said. Sir I will full gladly submit me / as I haue shewid you before.

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[Page]And than the Archebisshop badde the Constable to haue me forthe thens in haste.

And so than I was ledde forthe / & brought in to a foule vnhoneste pryson / where I came neuer before. But thāked be god / whan all mē wer gone for [...]he than fro me / and had sparred faste the pryson dore after them: by and by after I therein by myself besied me to thinke on god / & to thanke hym of his goodnesse. And I was than greatly cōforted in all my wittes / not onely for that I was than deliuered for a tyme fro the sighte / fro the hearing / fro the presence / fro the scornyng and fro the manasyng of myne enemies: but moche more I reioysed in the lorde because that thorow his grace he kept me so bothe among the flatering specially and among the manasyng of myne aduersaries / yt without heuynesse ād anguysshe of my cōscience I passed away fro them For as a tree laide vpon a nother tree ouer whar [...]e or on crosse wyse / so was the Archebisshop and his thre clerkis alwayes contrary to me / and I to them.

Now goode god for thyne holy name / and to the praisyng of thy moste blessed name / make vs one to gither / if it be thy will by authorite of thy worde / that is true perfite charite / and els not. And that is may thus be / all that this writyng reade or heare praye hartely to ye lorde god that he for his greate goodnesse that can not be with tonge expressed / graunte to vs and to all other / that in the same wyse / and for the same [Page] cause specially or for any other cause be at distaunce / to be knette and made one in true feith / in stedfaste hope / and in perfite charite. Amen.

¶Thus endeth the examynacion of Master Wyllyam Thorpe. And here after foloweth hys testamente.

MAthew an apostle of Christe & is gospeler witnessith truly in the holy gospell the moste holy lyuynge and the moste holsome teaching of christe. He rehersith how that Christe likeneth them that heare his wordis and kepe them / to a wyse man that bildeth his house vpon a stone / that is a stable ād a sadde grounde. This house is mannis soule in whome Christe deliteth to dwell / if it be grounded that is stablisshed feithfully in his lyuyng and in his trewe teaching / adourned or made fayre with diuerse vertues / which Christe vsed ād taucht without ony medlyng of ony errour / as ar chefely the condicions of charite. This forsaid stone is Christe vpon which euery feithfull soule must be bylded / syns vpon none other grounde than vpon Christis lyuyng and his teaching no body may make eny byldyng or housyng / where in Christe will come & dwell This sentence witnesseth seynt Paul to the corinthians shewing to them that no body may sett ony other groūde than is sett / yt is Christis lyuyng & his teaching. And because yt all men & women sholde gyue all their besynesse here in [Page] this lyfe to bylde them vertuously vpon this sure foundacion: seynt Paul knouleging the feruent desyre and the goode will of the people of Ephesy wrote to them cōfortably sayng: Now ye ar not straungeris / gestis / nor yet comelingis but ye ar the citezyns and of the housholde of god / byldyd aboue vpon the foundament of the apostles and prophetis. In which foundamēt euery byldyng that is byldyd or made thorow the grace of god / it encreaseth or growith into an holy temple▪ that is / euery body / that is groū ded or bylded feithfully in the teaching and lyuyng of Christe is there thorow made the holy temple of god. This is the stable grounde and stedfaste stone Christe / which is the sure corner stone faste ioynyng and holdyng myghtely to gither two wallis. For thorow Christe Iesu meane or middill persone of the trinite / the father of heuen is pituous or mercifully ioynyd and made one to gither to mankynde. And thorow dreade to offende god / ād feruent looue to please hym / men be vnseparably made one to god and defended surely vnder his proteccion. Also this forsaid stone Christe was figured by the square stones of which the tēple of god was made. For as a square stone / wher so euer it is caste or layde / it abydeth & lieth stabely: so Christe and euery feithfull mēbre of his chirche by example of hym abydeth and dwellith stabely in true faithe / and in all other heuenly vertues in all aduersites that they suffer in this valley [Page] of tearis. For lo / whan thes forsaid square stones wer hewen and wroughte for to be layde in the wallis or pillers of goddis tēple none noyse or stroke of the worke men was harde. Certein this silence in workyng of this stone figureth Christe chefely and his feithfull mēbres / which by example of hym haue ben and yet ar / & euer to the worldis ende shall be so meke and paci [...]t in euery aduersite that no sounde nor yet ony grudging shall ony tyme be perceiued in them Neuerthelesse this chefe and most worshipfull corner stone whiche onely is grounde of all vertues proude beggers repreuyd: but this despite and reprefe Christe sufferid moste mekely in his owne person for to gyue exāple of all mekenesse and pacience to all his feithfull folowers. Certeyn this worlde is now so full of proude beggers which ar namyd priestis: but the very office of workyng of priesthode / which Christe approuyth trewe ād acceptith / is farre fro the multitude of priestis that now reigne in this worlde. For fro the hyest prieste to the lowest / all (as who say) studie / that is they ymagine and trauell besely / how they may please this worlde ād their flessch. This sentence ād many soch other dependeth vpon them if it be well considered / other god the father of heuen hath deceiuyd all mankynde by the liuyng specially & teaching of Iesu Christe / & by the liuyng & teaching of his apostles & prophetis: or els all the popys yt haue ben / syns I hadde ony knowlege or discretion / [Page] with all the college of Cardinallis Archebishopis & bisshopis / Monkys chanons & friers with all the contagious flocke of the comunaltie of priesthode whych haue all my lyfe tyme ād mekell lenger reigned & yet reigne ād encrease dampnably fro synne into synne / haue bene ād yet be proude / obstinate heretikes / couetous symoners & defoulyd aduulterers in ye ministrīg of the sacramentis / & specially yn ministryng of the sacrament of the altare. For as their workys shewe whereto Christe biddeth vs take hede / the hyest priestis and prelatis of this priesthode chalenge and occupie vnlefully temporall lordeshippes. And for temporall fauour and mede they sell and gyue benefices to vnworthy ād vnable persones / yethes symoners sell synne sufferyng men & womē in euery degre ād estate to lye & cōtinew fro yeare to yeare in diuerse vices sclaūderously. And thus by euill exāple of hye priestis in the chirche / lower priestis vnder them or not onely suffered / but they ar maynteined to sell full dere to ye people for tēporall mede all ye sacramētis. And thus all this forsaid priesthode is blowen so hye ād borne vp in pride & vayn glorie of their estate & dignite / & so blindid with worldly couetousnesse yt they disdeyne to folow Christe in very mekenesse ād wilfull pouerte lyuyng holily / ād preaching goddis worde treuly frely & cōtineually / takyng their lyuelode at the fre will of ye people of their pure almose / where and whan they suffyse not for their trewe & besy [Page] preaching to gett their sustenaūce with their hā dis. To this trew sentēce grounded on Christis owne liuyng & teaching of his apostles / thes for said worldly & fleschly priestis will not consente effectually. But as their werkys ād also their wordis shewe / boldeli & vnshamefastly thes for said named priestis & prelatis couett / & enforse thē mightely & besely y• all holy scripture were expoūdid & drawne accordingly to their maners ād to their vngroūdid vsagis & fyndyngis. For they will not (syns they holde it but foly & madnesse) comforme their maners to the pure and symple liuyng of Christe and his apostles / nor they will not folow frely their learnyng. Wherfore all the emperours and kynges / ād all other lordis and ladies / and all the comon people in euery degre and state / which haue before tyme knowen or myght haue knowen / ād also all they that now yet knowe or myght knowe this forsaid witnesse of priesthode / and wolde not nor yet will enforce them after their connyng and power to withstonde charitably the forsaid enemyes and traitours of Christe ād of his chirche all thes stryue with Antechriste ageinst Iesu And they shall beare the indignaciō of god almightie withouten ende / if in conuenient tyme they amende them not / and repente them verely doyng therfore dew moornyng ād sorow af [...]er their connyng & power. For thorow presumptuousnes & necligence of priestis & prelatis (not of the chirche of Christe / but occupiyng their prelacy [Page] vndewly in the chirche & also by flateryng and false couetousnes of other diuerse namyd priestis) lousengers & lounderers ar wrongfull made & named heremites / & haue leue to defraude poore & nedy creatures of their lyuelode / ād to lyue by their false winnyng and begging in slouthe and in other diuerse vyces. And also of thes prelates thes cokir noses ar suffered to lyue in pride & hypocresy / & to defoull themself both bodely & gostely. Also by the sufferyng ād counsell of thes forsaid prelatis & of other priestis / ar made vayne both brotherhodis & susterhodis full of pride & enuye / which ar full contrarie to the brotherhode of Christe / syns they ar cause of mekill dissension / & they multiplie & susteyne it vncharitably: for in lusty eatyng & drinkyng vnmesurably & out of tyme they exercyse themself. Also this vayne confederacye of brotherhodis / is permitted to be of one clothyng ād to holde to gither. And in all thes vngrounded and vnlefull doynges / priestis ar parteners & and greate meddelers & counsellers And ouer this viciousnes / heremitis & pardoners / ankers and straunge beggers ar licensed & admitted of prelatis & priestis for to begyle the people with flateringis & leasingis sclaunderously ageinst all goode reason & trewe beleue / & so to encrease diuerse vices in themself & also among all them that accepte them or cōsente to them. And thus the viciousnes of thes forsaid named priestis & prelatis haue ben long tyme / & yet is / & shall be [Page] cause of warres both withī ye realme & without And in the same wise thes vnable priestes haue bene / & yet are / & shall be chefe cause of pestilence of men / & moren of beestes / & of barenesse of the erthe / & of all other mischefes / to the tyme ye lordes & comons able them thorow grace for to knowe & to kepe the commaundementes of god / enforsyng them than feithfully & charitably by one assente for to redresse & make one this forsaid priesthode to the wilfull / pore / meke / & innocent lyuyng & teaching specially of Christe & his apostles. Therfore all they that knowe or myght knowe the viciousnes that reigneth now cursedly in thes priestes & in their learning / yf they suffyse not to vndstond this contagious viciousnes: let them praye to the lorde hartely for the health of his chirche / absteyning thē prudently fro thes endured enemies of Christe and of his people / and frome all their sacramentes / syns to thē all that knowe them or maye knowe they are but fleschly deades & false: as seynt Cipriane witnesseth in the first question of decrees / & in the firste cause. Ca. Si quis inquit. For as this seynte & great doctours witnesse there / that not onely vicious priestes. but also all they that fauoure thē or consente to them in theire viciousnes shall to gither perisshe with them yf they amende them not dewly: as all they perished that cōsented to Sathan & Abijron. For no thing wer more cō fusyon to thes forsaide vicious priestes / than to eschewe them prudently in all their vnlefull sacramentes [Page] / while they continew in their synfull lyuyng slaunderously / as they haue longe tyme done and yet do. And no dody nede to be afraide (though dethe did folow by one wise or other) for to dye out of this worlde without takyng of ony sacramēt of these forsaid christes enemies / syns christe will not faile for to ministre him selfe all lefull and healfull sacramentes and necessarye at all tyme / ād specially at the ende / to all them that are in trewe feyth / in stedfaste hope / and in perfyte charite. But yet some mad foolis saye for to eschewe slaunder / they will be shriuē ones in the yeare and comuned of theire proper priestes / though they knowe them defouled with slaunderous vices. No doute but all thei that thus do or consente priuely or apertly to soch doynge ar culpable of great synne / syns seynt Paul witnesseth that not only they that do euyll are worthy of dethe & dampnacion: but also they that cō sente to euyll doars. Also (as their slaunderouse workes witnesse) thes forsaid vicious priestes despyce and caste from them heuenly connyng that is gyuen of the holy goste. Wherfore the lorde throweth all soche despisers frome hym that they vse nor do ony priesthode to hym. No doute than all they that wittingly or wilfully take or consente yt any other bodye sholde take / ony sacrament of ony soche named prieste / synneth opēly & dāpnably ageynst all the trinite & ar vnable to ony sacrament of healthe. And that this forsayde sentence is all to gither trewe / into remission [Page] of all my synfull lyuyng trustinge stedfastly in the mercy of god I offer to him my soule. And to proue also this forsaid sentence trewe with the helpe of god I purpose fully for to suffer mekely and gladly my moste wretched body to be tormented / where god will / & of whome he will / how he will / and whan he will / & as longe as he will / & what temporall peyne he will & dethe / to the praising of his name & to the edificacion of his churche. And I that am moste vnworthy & wretched cay [...]yf shall now thorow the speciall grace of god make to him plesaunte sacrifice with my moste synfull & vnworthy body. I beseche hartly all folke that rede or heare this ende of my purposed testament / that thorowe the grace of god they dispose verely & vertuously all their wittes / & able in like maner all theire membres for to vnderstonde truely and to kepe feythfully charitably & continually all the commaundementes of god / and so than to pray deuoutly to all the blessed trinyte / that I maye haue grace with wisdome & prudence frome aboue / to ende my lyfe here in this forsaid truethe ād for this cause / in true feith and stedfaste hope ād in perfite charite. AMEN.

[Page]HEre endeth sir William Thorpis testament on the friday after the rode daye and the twentye daye of September / In the yeare of our lorde a thousand foure hundred ād sixtie. And on the sonday nexte after the feste of seynt Peter that we call Lammesse daye in the yeare of our lorde a thousand / foure hundrth and seuen / the said sir William was accused of thes poyntes before writen in this booke before Thomas of Arundell Archebishoppe of Canterbury as it is sayde before. And so was it than betwixt the day of his accusing and the daye that this was wryten three and fiftye yeare and as mekill more as fro the Lammesse to the wodemesse. Beholde the ende.

¶The strengeth of euery tale is in the ende.

¶Here folowethe the Examinacion of the Lorde Cobham.

¶The beleue of the Lorde Cobh̄am.

[Page]

BE it knowen to all men that in ye yeare of oure Lorde a thousand foure hundred and thirtene / in ye first yeare of the reigne of kynge Henry the fifte. The kynge gaue to the bisshop of Canterbury leaue to correcte the lorde Cabham. And because no man durste somone hym personally / the archebisshoppe set vp a citacion on his cathedrall chirche doore on the wennisday nexte before the natiuite of our lady in the forsaid yeare / and that citacion was taken downe by the frendes of the lorde Cobham: and after that the bisshope set vp a nother on oure lady day whiche also was rent downe / and because he came not to answere on the daye assigned in the citacion the bishop cursed him for contumacye. And the lorde Cobham seyng all this malice purposed ageynst hī / wrote this beleue that foloweth with his owne hande and noted it hym selfe: and also answered to foure poyntes put ageinst him by the bisshop / & he went to the king supposing to get of him good fauour and lordship.

¶The beleue.

I Beleue in god the father almightye / maker of heuen and of erthe / and in Iesu Christe his onely sonne oure lorde / which was conceyued of the holy goste / borne of the virgyn Marie / and suffered dethe vnder Ponce Pilate / crucifyed / dede and buryed. [Page] He went downe to helles: the thirde daye he rose ageyn fro dethe: he ascended vp in to heuenis he sitteth on the righte hande of god the father almightie: fro thence he is to come to iudge the quicke & dede. I beleue in the holy goste: all holy church: the comunyon of seyntes: forgeuenesse of synnes / vprisyng of flesche / and euerlastynge lyfe. Amen.

And for to declare more playnly my sothfastnes in the beleue of holy churche. I beleue seithfully and verely that there is but one god almightie / and in this godhede and of this godhede ben thre persones: the father / the sonne / and the holy goste / and these thre persones be the same god almightie. Forthermore I beleue that the seconde person of this most blessed trinite in moste conuenient tyme before ordened tooke flesche and bloode of the moste blessed virgine our lady seynte Marie for the redempcion and saluacion of mankynde that was loste before for Adams synne. And I beleue that Iesu Christe our lorde which is bothe god and man is hedde of all holy churche / and that all tho that ben or shall be saued ben membres of this moste holy churche / which holy churche is departed in thre partes / of the which one parte is now in heuē / that is to fay / ye seyntes that in this lyfe lyued accordingly with ye most blessed lawe of Christ & his lyuīg / despising & forsaking ye deuell & his workes / ye prosperites of this world & the foule luste of ye flesch. The .ij. parte is in purgatory abidīg [Page] the mercy of god / & purging thē there of their sinnes / of ye which thei haue bē truely confessed in dede or els in will to haue bē. The .iij. part of this chirch is here in erthe / ye which is called ye fyghtīg chirch / for it fighteth euery day & night agenst ye temptaciō of ye deuell / ye prosperite of this false failing worlde / & the proude rebelliō of the flesch agenst ye soule. This chirch is departed by ye most blessed ordinaūce of god into thre estates yt is to saye / priesthode / knighthode / & comōs / to euery estate of ye whiche god gaue charge ye one sholde helpe a nother / & none destroye other. As to priestes / they sholde be moste holy & lest worldly ād treuly lyuyng as nere as they coulde after the example of Christe and his apostles. And all their besynesse sholde be daye and nyghte in holy example of lyuynge and trewe preachinge and teaching of goddes lawe / to bothe the other partes. And also they shold be most meke / moste seruisable / & most louly in spirite both to god & to mā. In the .ij. parte of this chirch yt is knyghthod ben conteyned all that beare the swerde by lawe of office / which sholde mainteyne goddes lawe to be preached and taucht to the people ād principally the gospell of Christe / and treuly to lyue thereafter: the whiche parte sholde rather put them selfe to parell of dethe / than to suffer any lawe or constitucion to be made of mā / where thorow the fredome of goddes lawe myghte be letted to be preached and tauchte to the people / or whereof any erroure or heresye myghte [Page] growe in the churche. For I suppose fully that there maye come none heresye nor erroure amonge the people / but by false lawes / constitucyons / or teachynges contrarye to Christes lawe / or by false lesynges. Also the seconde parte sholde defendethe comon people fro tyrauntes oppressours and extorcioners / and maynteyn ye clergy doyng dewly their office / in preachinge / teaching / prayng / and frely ministring the sacramentes of holy chirch. And if this clergie be negligent in doing this office / this seconde parte of the chirche ought by their office that they haue taken of god to constreyne the clergie in dew wyse to do their office in the forme that god hathe ordened it to be done. The thirde parte of this fighting chirch oweth to beare good will to lordes and to priestes / treuly to do their bodely laboure in tilling the earth / & with their true marchandise doing their deuties that they owe both to knyghthode and to priesthode / as goddes lawe lymeteth keping feithfully the cōmaundmē tes of god. Moreouer I beleue all ye sacramētes of holy chirch for to be medfull & profitable to all that shall be saued / takynge them after ye entent that god and holy chirche haue ordened. And for as mekell as I am sclaundered falselye of my beleue in the sacrament of the altar / I do all Christen men to witte / that I beleue verely that the moste blessed sacrament of the altare is very Christes body in forme of bread / ye same body yt was borne of ye blessed virgin our lady seynte [Page] Mary / done on the crosse / dede / buried / & on ye thirde day rose frō dethe to lyfe / ye which body is now glorified in heuen Also I beleue that all goddis lawe is trewe / & who that lyueth contrariously to this blessed lawe / & so contynewith to his lyues ende & dyeth so brekyng the holy commaundementis of god that he shall be dampnyd into euerlasting peynes. And he that will learne this moste blessed lawe & lyue ther after keping thes holy commaundementis of god ād endeth in charite shall haue euerlasting blysse. Also I vnderstonde that this folowith of beleue / that our lorde Iesu Christe yt is bothe god & man asketh nomore here in erthe / but yt he obey to hym after the fourme of his lawe in trewe keping of it. And if ony prelate of the chirche aske more obediēce than this of ony man lyuyng / he exaltith hymself in that aboue Christe / & so he is an open Antichriste. Also thes poyntes I holde as of beleue in especiall. And in generall / I beleue all that god will that I beleue / praing at the reuerence of almighty god to you my liege lorde / that this beleue myght ben examyned by the wisest & trewest clerkis of your realme / & if it he trewthe / that it myght be confermyd / & I to be holden for a trew christen man: & if it be false that it myght be dampned / & I tauchte a better beleue by goddis lawe / and I will gladly obey therto.

This forsaid beleue the lorde Cobham wrote & tooke it with hym & offered it to the kyng for [Page] to see / & the kyng wolde not receiue it / but bad hym take it to them that sholde be his iudges. And than the lorde of Cobham offered to brynge before the kyng to purge hym of all errour ād heresy that they wolde put ageinst hym an hū dred knyghtes & squteres. And also he offered to fighte with ony mā christen or hethen yt wold say yt he wer false in his beleue / except the kyng and his brethren. And after he said / he wold submit hym to all maner correcciō that any mā wold correcte hym after goddis law. And not withstanding all this the kyng suffered hym to be somoned personally in his owne chāber. And the lorde of Cobham said to the kyng / that he hadde appeled to the pope fro the Archebisshop / wherfore he said he ought not to take him for his iudge / & so he hadde there his appele redy written / & shewid it to the kyng: & therwith / ye kynge was more angry & said. He sholde not pursue his apele / but rather he sholde be ī warde till his appele wer admitted: ād than wolde he or not / he sholde be his iudge. And thus nothing of all this myght be alowed / but because he wolde not sweare to submit hym to the chirche & take what penaūce the Archebisshop wold inioyne hym / he was arested & sent to the towre of London to keape his day that the bisshop assigned hym in the kynges chamber. And than he made the beleue afore said with the answeres to foure poyntes that now folow to be written in two partes of an endenture. And whan [Page] he came to answer he gaue that one parte to the bisshope / ād that other parte he kept to hymself.

¶The endenture of the lorde Cobham

I Iohn̄ Olde castell knyght & lorde of Cobham will yt all christē men were / how yt Thomas of Arundell Archebisshop of Cāterbury hath now leyde maliciously & vntreuly by his letter & his seale written of me in sclaunderous wyse yt I sholde otherwyse feale and teache of ye sacramētis of holy chirche / assyning in speciall ye sacrament of ye altare / the sacramēt of penaūce / & also in worshipping of ymagis / & in goyng on pilgrimagis: otherwyse than fealeth and teacheth the vniuersall holy chirche. I take almightie god to witnes yt it hath ben & now is / & euer with the helpe of god shall be myne entēt & my will to beleue feithfully ād treuly in all the sacramētis yt euer god ordened to be done in holy chirche. And more ouer for to declare me in thes poyntes a foresaid. I beleue that ye moste worshipfull sacramēt of ye altare is very Christes body in fourme of breade / ye same body yt was borne of the blessed virgin our lady seynt Marie done on ye crosse / dede & buried / ād the thirde day rose fro dethe to lyfe / ye which body is now glorified in heuē Also as for ye sacramēt of penaūce I beleue yt it is nedefull to eueri mā yt shall be sauyd to forsake synne / and to doo dew penaūce for synne before done / with trewe cōfessiō / very cōtriciō / & dew satisfacciō / as goddis law limeteth & teacheth / & els may he not be sauyd / which penaunce I desyre all men to doo [Page] And as for ymagis I vnderstonde that they be not of belefe but they wer ordened (syns beleue was geuyn of Christe) by sufferaunce of the chirche for to be kalenderis to lay men to represente & bring to mynde the passion of our lorde Iesu Christe / and martirdome / & good lyuyng of other sayntes. And that who so it be that doeth the worship to deede ymages that is dewe to god / or puttith hope feyth or truste in helpe of them / as he sholde doo to god or hathe affecciō in one more than in a nother / he doeth in that ye greate synne of ydolatrie. Also I suppose this fully / that euery man in this erthe is a pilgreme toward blesse or toward peyne. And that he that knowith not nor will not knowe nor kepe ye holy commaundementis of god in his liuyng here / all be it / that he go on pilgrimage into all the worlde / and he dye so / he shall be dampned And he that knoweth the holy commaundemē tis of god and kepith them to his ende he shall be sauyd / though he neuer in his lyfe go on pilgrimage as men vse now to Canterbury or to Rome or to ony other place.

This beleue indented conteinyng the forsaid beleue with thes forsaid answeres he tooke to ye bisshops whan he cam to answer on the saturday next befor Michelmesse in the yeare aforesayd. And what so euer the bisshopes asked him he badde them looke what his bill said therto / and therby wolde he stande to the dethe: other / answer gaue he not that day / but the bisshopes [Page] wer not quietyd herewith. And the Archebisshop badde hym take auysement till moneday next folowing to answer to this poynte / Yf there remained materiall brede in the sacramēt of of the altare after the wordis of consecracion. And in the meane tyme he perceiuyd that the vttermoste malice was purposed ageinst hī how so euer he answered: therfore he putt his lyfe in goddis hande and answered thus as folowith

This is the iudgement and sentence geuyn vpon sir Iohn Old castell knyght and lorde of Cobham the moneday next before michelmesse day at the friers prechers in London in the yeare of our lorde a thousand foure hundred and thirtene? the Archebisshop of Canterbery / the bisshop of London / the bisshop of winchester / & the bisshop of Bangar / Master Iohn̄ witnā / Master Iohn̄ whytehede doctours of diuinite Master Philip Morgan / Master henry ware Master Iohn̄ kempe doctours of lawe. And sir Robert wambnell vicare of seynt Laurence in the iewrie / Master Iohn̄ Steuenes / Master Iames Colenotaries / with the foure orders of friers / and many other clerkis demyng and cō uicting hym for an heretike and a cursed man. The Archebisshop made all thes clerkys and doctours both religious and seculers to swere vpon a booke that they sholde not for loue or fauour of the one partie / nor for any enuy or hatrede of the other partie / say nor witnesse but ye truthe. And the two forsaid notaries wer sworē [Page] also to write & to witnesse ye wordis & processe y• wer to be said on bothe the parties / and to say ye sothe / if hit otherwyse wer.

After this the lorde of Cobhā came / ād was broughte before them all to his examinacion & to his answer.

Than the Archebisshop said to hym. Lorde of Cobham ye ben auysed well ynoughe of the wordis and processe that wer said to you vpon saturday laste paste in the chapter house of Paulis / the which processe wer now to long to reherse. Than I proffered to haue assoiled you (for ye wer acursed) of your contumacy and disobediē ce to holy chirche.

Than said the lorde Cobham forthe with. God saith. Maledicā benedictionibus vestris that is to say / I shall curse your blessinges

Than said the Archebisshop. Sir than I peroffered to haue assoiled you if ye wold haue asked it / and yet I doo the same.

Than said the lorde of Cobham. Nay forso the / I trespased neuer ageinst you / and therfore will I not doo it. And with that he kneled downe on the pauement / and helde vp his handis & said. I shryue me to god and to you all sirs / yt in my youthe I haue synnyd greatly and greuously in lecherie and in pride and hurte many men & done many other horrible synnes / good lord I crie the mercie. And therwith wepingly he stoode vp ageyn and said. Here / for the brekyng of goddis lawe and his commaundementis [Page] ye cursed me not / But for your owne lawes and tradiciōs aboue goddis law / ād therfore it shall be destroied.

Than the Archebisshop examined ye lorde of his beleue. And ye lorde of Cobhā said. I beleue fully in all goddis law / & I beleue yt it is all trewe / and I beleue all that god will that I beleue.

Than the Archebisshop examined hym of the sacramente of the altare / how he beleuyd therein.

The lorde of Cobhā said. Christe vpon shere thursday at nyght sitting with his disciples at ye supper / after yt he hadde supped he tooke breade / & geuyng thankis to the fader he blessed it and brake it / & gaue it to his disciples saiyng / take & eate ye of this all / this is my body yt shall be betraied for you / doo you this in the remembraunce of me. This beleue I said he.

Than the Archebisshop asked hym / if it wer breade after the consecracion and the sacramē tall wordes said.

The lorde of Cobham said. I beleue that the sacrament of the altare is very Christes body in fourme of breade / the same body ye was borne of the virgin Mary / done on the crosse / dede and buried / and the thirde day rose fro dethe to lyfe which body is now glorified in heuen.

Thā said one of ye doctours of law After ye sacramētall wordes said / ther remaineth no brede [Page] but the body of Christe.

Than the lorde of Cobham said to one Master Iohn̄ whitehede. You said to me in the castell of Cowling / that the ooste sacred was not Christes body But I said / yt was Christes body / though seculers & friers holde eche one agenst other in this opinion.

Than said they. We say all that it is goddis body. And they askyd hym whether it wer materiall breade after the consecracion.

Than said the lorde I beleue that it is Christes body in fourme of breade Sir beleue ye not thus?

And the Archcbisshop said. Ye.

Than the doctours askyd hym whether it wer onely Christes body after the consecracion and no breade.

And he said to them. Yt is Christes body & breade: for right as Christe was here in māhode / and the godhede hidde in the manhode / so I beleue verely / that Christes flesche and his blode is hidde there in the fourme of breade.

Than they smylde eche one on other demyng hym takyn in heresy / and said / it is an heresy.

The Archebisshop asked hym / what breade it was / and the clerkis also whether it wer materiall or not.

Than the lorde said / the gospell spekith not of this terme materiall / ād therfore I will not / but I say / it is Christes body and breade. For ye gospell saith. Ego sum panis viuus qui de celo [Page] descendi / th̄at is to say. I am quicke breade / that came downe frome heuen. For as oure lorde Iesu Christe is very god and very man / so the most blessed sacrament of the altare is Christes body and breade.

Than thei said it is an heresy to say that it is brede after the consecracion & the sacramentall wordes said / but onely Christes body.

The lorde said. Seynt Paul the apostle was as wise as ye bē / & he called it breade / wher he saith thus. The breade yt we breake / is it not the partetaking of ye body of the lorde?

Than they saide. Paule muste be other wyse vnderstanded / for it is an heresy to say that it is breade after the consecracion / but onely christes body / for it is ageynst the determinacion of the chirche. Than they asked hī whether he beleued not in the determinacion of ye churche.

And he said to thē. No forsothe / but I beleue all goddes lawe and all that god will that I beleue / but not in youre lawe nor in youre determinacion / for ye be no parte of holy churche / as openly your dedis shewe / but very Antichristes contrary to gods law. For ye haue made lawes for youre couetousnes.

This they said was heresy / not for to beleue in the determinacion of ye chirche.

Than the Archebishop asked him / what was holy churche.

He said. I beleue yt holy chirch is ye number of all thē that shall be saued / of whom Christ is [Page] hed / of yt which chirch one parte is in heuē / an other in purgatorye & the thirde here in erthe. This parte here standeth in thre degrees & estates / priestehode / knighthode / and the comunalte / as I sayde playnly in my beleue.

Than the arbtshop said to hī. Wote you who is of this chirche / it is doute to you who is thereof / ye sholde not iudge.

The lorde said. Operibus credite / iustū iudiciū iudicate / that is to say. Beleue ye the workes iudge ye rightfull iugement. And also he saide to them all. Where fynde ye by gods lawe / that ye sholde sit thus vpon any man or ony mannis death as ye do / but Anna & Cayphas sat & iudged Christe / and so do you.

Thā said they. Yes sir. Christ iudged Iudas

The lord of Cobham said. No. Christ iudged not Iudas / but he iudged himself / & went & hā ged himself: but Christe saide. Wo to him / as he dothe to many of you. For syns ye venyme was shed in to ye chirche / ye folowed neuer Christ / nor ye stode neuer in perfection of goddes lawe.

Than the Archebishop asked him what was that venyme.

The lorde said. The lordshippes and possessyons. For than cried an angell / wo / wo / wo / this day is venyme shed into the chirch of god / for before that tyme ther wer many martirs of popis / and syns I cā tell of none: but sothe it is / syns yt tyme one hath put downe a nother / & one hath slayne a nother / ād one hath cursed a nother [Page] as the cronicles tell / also of moch more cursednesse. Also he said. Christ was meke / & the pope is proude. Christ was pore & forgaue / ye pope is riche & a māslear / as it is opēly proued. And thus this is ye neste of Antichriste / & out of this neste cometh Antichristes disciples / of whome these monkes & friers ben the taile.

Thā said the priour of ye frier Austines. Sir why saye ye so?

And ye lorde of Cobham said / for as ye bē pharisies deuided / & deuided in habite: so ye make diuisīon amōge ye people. And thus thes friers & mōkes with soch other / be ye mēbres of ye neste of antichrist. And he said. Christe saith. Wo be to you scribes & pharifies ypocrites / for ye close vp ye kingdome of heuē before mē / for sothe ye enter not your self / nor ye will nat suffer them yt wold to enter in / & thus ye be ye disciples of Antichrist For ye will not suffer gods lawe to go thorowe nor to be taucht & preched of good priestes / whiche will speke ageinst your sinnes & repreue thē / but of soch yt bē flaterers whiche susteyne you in your synnes & cursednes.

Thā said ye archebishop. By our lady sir / there shall no soche preache that preacheth dissensyon & diuision if god will.

Thā said ye lorde of Cobham to ye archebishop Christ saith / yt ther shall be so greate tribulaciō as neuer was syns ye begīnīg. And this shalbe in your dayes / & by you: for ye haue slayne many mē & mo shall hereafter / but Christ s [...]ith excepte [Page] yt those dayes were shortened / no flesch sholde be saued / but hastly god will short your dayes. Forthermore bishops / priestes / & dyacons ben grounded in goddes lawe / but not thes other religions / as ferre as I can wete.

Thā a doctour of lawe one master Ihon kempe put to hī thes foure poyntes that folowe. The faith & the determinaciō of holy chirch touching ye blessed sacrament of ye altare is this / yt after ye sacramentall wordes ben said of a priest in his masse / ye materiall breade yt was before is torned into Christes body / & the materiall wyne yt was before is torned in to Christes very blode / & so there remayneth in ye sacrament of ye altare no materiall breade nor materiall wyne / ye whiche wer there before the sayng of ye sacramētall wordes. Sir beleue ye not thys?

The lorde of Cobhā said. This is not my beleue. For my beleue is as I saide to you before / that ye worshipfull sacrament of ye altare is very chhristes body / in fourme of breade.

Than said the archebishoppe. Sir Ihon / ye must say otherwise.

The lorde of Cobham said. Nay / yf god will but that it is christes body in fourme of breade / as all the comon beleue is.

The doctour said. The seconde is this / yt holy chirche hath determined / yt euery christē man lyuyng bodely vpon erth oweth to be shriuē to a prieste ordened by ye chirche / if he maye come to him. Sir what say ye to this?

[Page]The lorde answered and said A seake man and sore wounded hadde nede to haue a sure leche and a trewe / knowing his cure / and therfore a man sholde principally be shreuen to god / and els his confession is noucht. And a mā sholde rather go & be counsellid with a good prieste that knowith goddis lawe and liueth thereafter than with his owne prieste if he wer an euyl man or with ony other soche.

The doctour said. The thirde is this. Christe ordenyd seynt Peter apostle to be his vicare ī erthe / whose see is ye chirche of Rome ordenyng and graunting that the same power that be gaue to peter sholde succede to all Peters successours the which we call now the popis of Rome / by whose power in the chirche particulerly and specially ben ordenyd prelates as Archebisshopis / Bisshopes / & other degrees to whome christen men owe to obeye after the lawe of ye chirche of Rome. This is the determinacion of the chirche.

To this he answered and said. Who that foloweth next Peter in liuyng is next hym in succession / but your liuyng refuseth poore peters liuyng ād many other popes that wer martirs in Rome that folowed peter in maner of liuyng whos condicions ye haue clene forsakyn / all the worlde may knowe it well.

The doctour said. The fourth pointe is this. Holy chirche hathe determined / that it is medefull to a christen man to go on pilgrimages to [Page] holy places / and there specially to worship holy reliques of seyntes / apostles / martirs / confessours and all seyntes approuyd by the chirche of Rome.

To this he said. Yt wer ynough to bury saintes fayre in the erthe / but now sayntes that be deade ben compellid to begge for couetousnes the which in their lyfe hated couetousnes and begging / but I say to you all / and knowe it for a treuthe / that with your shrynes and ydoles & your feyned absolucions and indulgencis and your tēporaltes / ye drawe to you all the richesse of this worlde. Why sir said one of the clerkis / will ye not worship ymagis?

What worship saide the lorde.

Thā said frier Palmer. Sir ye will worship the crosse of Christe that he died on.

Where is it? said the lorde.

The frier said. I put case sir that it wer here before you.

The lorde said. This is a redy man to put to me a question of a thing / that they wote neuer where it is. And yet I aske you / what worship.

A clerke said. Soche worship as Paul spekith of / that is this. God forbid me to ioye but in the crosse of our lorde Iesu Christe.

Than said the lorde / and spred his armes abrode. This is a very crosse.

Than said the bisshop of London. Sir ye wote well that he died on a materiall crosse.

[Page]Than said the lorde. Our saluacion cam in onely by hym that died on the crosse and by the materiall crosse. And well I wote yt this was the crosse that Paul ioyed on / that is / in the passion of our lord Iesu Christe.

The Archebisshop said. Sir Iohn̄ ye muste submit you to the ordinaunce of the chirche.

The lorde said. I wote not wherto.

Than the Archebisshop redde a bill of his iugement and conuicted hym for an heretike.

After the reding of the bill / the lorde said. Though ye iudge my body / I hope to god that he will saue my soule and he said that he wold stande to the death by these thinges before said. With the helpe of Iesu. And than he said to all the people. Sirs for goddis loue be well ware of thes men / for they will begile you els / and lede you blyndelinges in to hell and themself also. For Christe saith if one blynde man lede a nother / bothe fall in to the ditche And after this / thus he praied for his enemies and said Lorde god I beseche the forgyue my persewe [...]s / if it be thy will. And than he was ledde a geyne to ye towre of London / and thus was the ende.

WHile the lorde of Cobham was in the towre he sent out priuely to his frendis / and they at his desyre enfourmyd and writ this bill that folowith next / commending it to ye people / that they sholde cease ye sclaū ders & leasynges / yt his enemies made on hym.

[Page]FOr as mekill as sir Iohn̄ Old castell knyght and lorde of Cobham is vntreuly conuicted and prysoned / and falsly reported and sclaundered among the people by his aduersaries / yt he sholde other wyse feale & speke of the sacramentis of holy chirche / ād specially of the blessed sacrament of the altare / than was written in his beleue which was indented & takyn to the clergie ād set vp in diuerse opyn placis in the cite of London Knowen be it to all the worlde that he neuer varied in ony poynte there fro but this is playnly his beleue that all the sacramentes of holy chirche ben profitable and medefull to all thē that shall be sauyd takyng them after the entent that god and holy chirche hath ordenyd. Ferther more he beleuith that the blessed sacrament of the altare is verely and treuly Christes body in fourme of breade Trewth long hyd now ys dysclosed / Praysed be god. Amen.

Information about this book

Title statement

The examinacion of Master William Thorpe preste accused of heresye before Thomas Arundell, Archebishop of Ca[n]terbury, the yere of ower Lord .MCCCC. and seuen. The examinacion of the honorable knight syr Jhon Oldcastell Lorde Cobham, burnt bi the said Archebisshop, in the fyrste yere of Kynge Henry the Fyfth.

Thorpe, William, d. 1407?

Edition statement

1530

Publication

Publisher

Text Creation Partnership,

Place of publication

Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) :

Date

2007-01 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1).

ID [DLPS]

A13748

ID [STC]

STC 24045

ID [STC]

ESTC S104932

ID [EEBO-CITATION]

99840662

ID [PROQUEST]

99840662

ID [VID]

5189

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Early English books online.

Notes

(EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A13748)

Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 5189)

Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 155:02)

Source

— The examinacion of Master William Thorpe preste accused of heresye before Thomas Arundell, Archebishop of Ca[n]terbury, the yere of ower Lord .MCCCC. and seuen. The examinacion of the honorable knight syr Jhon Oldcastell Lorde Cobham, burnt bi the said Archebisshop, in the fyrste yere of Kynge Henry the Fyfth., Thorpe, William, d. 1407?, Tyndale, William, attributed name., Constantine, George, ca. 1501-1559, attributed name., Oldcastle, John, Sir, d. 1417. Examinacion of the honorable knight syr Jhon Oldcastell. aut.

Extent

[136] p.

J. van Hoochstraten,. [Antwerp :: 1530]. (Imprint from STC.) (Edited by William Tyndale? or George Constantine?--STC.) (Includes Thorpe's testament.) (Signatures: A-H I⁴.) (Reproduction of the original in the British Library.)

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