The first Dialogue.

A How now neighbour, haue I found you crouching to a Crucifixe?

Sir, what make you heere?

Sir, I am to conferre with you.

To conferre with me? What authoritie haue you?

I haue authoritie sufficient: for it was decreed in the late Synode holden at London, that Synod. Lon­d [...]nens. cau. 66. euerie Mini­ster being a Preacher, and hauing any Popish Recusant or Recusants in his Parish, and thought fit [...]y the Bishop of the Diocesse shal labour with them diligently from time to time, thereby to reclaime them from their errors.

Well, let me make an end of my prayers, and then I will come and conferre with you.

No neighbour, God loueth alacritie in his worke; excuses he much disliketh. The delay that Elizeus made, let me go kisse my father; and those shifts in the Gospell, let mee goe burie my father, or take leaue of my frinds, are not admitted in the Lords businesse: noe more is this of yours, let mee make an ende of my prayers.

Yes, I pray you giue me leaue.

I pray you intreate me not: for I dare not giue you leaue to commit idolatrie.

Idolatrie? do you charge me with idolatrie?

It is an old saying, and I see that it is true, not one­ly in corporall whoredome, but inspirituall Prou. 30. 20 an adul­terous woman eateth; and after wipeth her mouth, and saith, I haue not committed iniquitie. With what face can you denie your selfe to be an idolater? haue I not taken you in ipso facto?

You haue taken me indeede praying before a cru­cifixe; but I hope you account not that Idolatrie.

Yes, Saint Ambrose telleth you, that to worship the Crucifixe is grosse idolatrie: and before himd Ambros. de obitu Theodo­ [...]. Arnobius made this answer in the behalfe of all true Christians: Arnob. aduers Gentes, lib. 8. Cruces nec colimus nec optamus: vos plane quiligneos deos consecratis, cruces ligneas, vt deorum ves­trorum partes, forsitan adoratis: We neither worshippe [Page 4] crosses, nor wish for them, you that consecrate woodden Gods, [...] Chaz [...]s crux est NicephorM. lib, 18. cap. 54. de happily adore woodden Crosses, as parts of your Gods. In a word, you may as iustly be tearmed *Chazinzarij & Staurolatrae, as the Armenij▪ for you worshippe thef Euthymius in Panoplia, et Ni­cephor, H [...]s [...]ib, 18 cap, 54, Crosse of Christ as well as they.

No we worship not the Crosse it selfe, but Christh Alexand. de Hales, part 3, quaest, 30 art, v [...]t, that was crucified on the Crosse.

i Greg, de, Valen­tia, tom, 3, de [...]d [...] lolat. punct, 6, ^k B [...]liarm. de i. mag. lib, 2. ca. 23 Yes, Them. Aquin, part 3. quest, 25 art. 4. Thomas Aquinas, Alexander de Hales, Gregorie de Valentia, and the rest of your chiefest doctors doe teach, that Crucifixes are to bee worshipped with the very same worship, wherewith Christ himselfe is to be worshipped.

I Aunswere with Cardinall Bellarmine, that albeit Crucifixes are to be worshipped with the same wor­ship; yet is it with respect to Christ; and that the wor­ship passeth by the image to him.

This shift will not serue your turne; for to co-adore the crucifixe with CHRIST, is palpable Idolatrie, as may bee prooued by the determination of the Councell of Ephe­ [...]u [...].

How I pray you?

Nestorius conceiued the manhood of Christ to be a distinct persō from the word, or sonne of GOD: and withall he framed a co-adoration whereby this manhood was to be adored with the word. Now the Counsell of Ephesus condemned this co-adoration: in like sort may we condemne your coa-doration of the crucifixe with Christ. But to leaue this particular, why did you bow your knees, and lift vp your eyes, and handes to the crucifixe?

Why may I not?

Why? because God requireth this outward ho­nour of eyes, hands and knees as due to him alone, Isay, 45. 2 [...] I haue sworne (saith hee) by my selfe: the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousnesse: and shall not returne, that euery knee shall bowe vnto me. Ephes, 3, 14, For this cause, (saithn Lamen, 3, 48▪ Paul) I bowe my knees vnto the father of our Lord Iesus Christ. Let vt lift vp our hearts with our hands (saith the Prophet Hieremie) to God in the heauens. And Psal. 123, [...]. I (saith the Psalmist) lift vp mine eyes to thee, that dwel­lest in the heauens▪

If this honour of eyes, hands, and knees, be due to God alone, then why do you giue it to your parents & Magistrates?

God alloweth parents and Magistrates that present his person in blessing and iudging, to haue some part of his externall honour: and in that respect doe wee lift vp our hands to them, and bow our knees before them. But as for Images, God himselfe hath made a flat prohibition, that they shall haue no part of his honour, Exod, 20, 5. Thou shalt not (saith hee) bowe downe to them.

But I pray you Sir, what is the principal cause that moueth you, to keepe this crucifixe in your house?

Truely to pu [...] me in remembrance of Christs bit­ter passion forr ^y sinnes; and to stirre vp my selfe to sorrow, compassion and teares, by considering the pitifull handling of Christ vpon the Crosse.

I cannot but iudge you to be not onely verie dull, but wicked, that cannot remember Christ crucified, except you haue a crucifixe before your eyes, to kin­dle your appetite, and to moue your heart with such a carnall commiseration and pitie, as wee often finde in our selues, when wee see deserued torments inflic­ted vpon malefactours. Let mee therefore intreate [Page 7] you, to content your selfe with such meanes as God himselfe hath commended vnto you▪ therby daiely to renue the memorie of your redemption; and not to deuise such your selfe, as serue onely to prouoke you to a naturall and humane affection.

What meanes hath God commanded vnto vs, to put vs in minde of the passions of Christ.

Truely, the true preaching of the word of God, & the right administration of the Sacraments.

Is there any representation of Christes passion in these two?

Yes, there is as liuely a representation of the passi­on of Christ, in the preaching of the word and in the administration of the Lords Supper, as if Christ were yet in crucifying, and as though his precious blood were now distilling from his hands, and sides. This appeareth by the verie words of the Apostle Saint Paul, who taxeth the Galathians, saying: Gal, 3. O foolish Galathians who hath bewitched you, that yee should not obey the truth: to whome Iesus Christ before was described in your sight, and among you crucrified, that is, to whome was preached the doctrine of saluation by Christ, in as liuely and euident manner, as if Christ had beene painted with orient colours before your eyes, and [Page 8] crucified, in, or among you. As for the administratiō of the Lords Supper, the same Apostle telleth you, that, Cor, ii, 23 24. 25 the Lord Iesus in the night that he was betrayed, tooke bread: and when he had giuen thankes, hee brake it, and said, take eate: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do ye in remembrance of me. Hee said not, keepe y [...] Crucifixes in your houses in remembrance of me.

Although he said not so; yet I see no reason, but that we may as lawfully paint Christ in our houses with colours, as you paint him with wordes in Ser­mons, and in the administration of the Lords Sup­per:

Sir, there is not the like reason: for the Lord alloweth the one, namely the description of Christ in speech, and in the administration of the Lords Supper. But the other, to wit, the caruing or painting of his image in your houses, and that for a religious vse▪ hee vt­terly condemneth in the twentie of Exodus, saying: Exod, 20. 4. Thou shall make thee no grauen Image, neither any simi­litude of things that are in heauen aboue, neither that are in the earth beneath, nor that are in the waters vnder the earth.

But I maruaile, that you stand thus in defence of Images, seeing that all the ancient fathers, whome you pretende to bee on your side, doe in expresse words condemne the vse of thē: & are so farre from teaching you with your late writers, that images are Lay-mens bookes, as that they tell you with the Haba. 2, 18 Pro­phet [Page 9] HABACVK, that they are teachers of lies.

Do the ancient fathers condemne the use of Ima­ges? Which of them I pray you?

Clemens Alexandrinus speaking of his time, saith this Clemens, Alex­and. orat, exh [...] ­tat, ad Gentes, et in 6, Strom. not is non est [...]nago sensilis de materia sensili, sed quae per­cipit [...]r intelligentia▪ &c. With vs there is no Image that is materiall, and seene with eyes, but onely such as is perceiued by the vnderstanding and inwardman, because that God, who is the onely true God, is apprehended by the vnderstan­ding and inwarde man, and not by the outwarde sences.

And of the same minde is the other Clement, as ap­peareth by these his words Clemens epis [...] Rom, de Ia [...]ob fratre Dom, lib. 5 runne not vnto these I­mages of wood and stone, to honour pictures and images, that haue no soule. Againe, this is nothing else but the sugge­stion of the old serpent, who maketh you beleeue, that you are very devout, when you honour the insensible things. Yea, hee cryeth out saying; What manner of impietie, and how great ingratitude is it to receiue the benefit from God, and to giue thanks vnto sticks and stones.

Tertullian likewise saith, that Tertul. de cor. mil. it is great indignity, that the Image of the liuing God, should be translated into the Image of an Idoll, or of a thing that is dead. And an­swering an vsuall obiection, hee saith: Tertul. de id [...]a [...] It is noe hurt that the same God by his law forbad a similitude, to bee made, and by an extraordinary precept commanded the simi­litude of the brasen serpent to be set vp. If thou wilt obey God, thou hast his law, make thee no similitude. If thou looke to the precept that was giuen after for making a similitude, then see thou imitate Moses▪ make no image against the law, vnlesse God bid thee as he badde Moses.

[Page 10] And Arnobius pointing at the true image of God saith thus, Arnob, contra [...], 8 Quam imaginemdeo faciomus, cu [...]as im [...]go, si recte iu [...]ic [...]mus▪ homo est: what image shall I ma [...]e to God, whose image, if wee iudge aright, man himselfe is

Lactantius, also affirmeth, that there is no religion, where Images are worshipped. Lactant, lib, 2▪ Instit. [...] c. 18, Non est dubium (saith he) qum religio nulla sit, vbicunque simulachrum est.

With him agreeth S, Austen, saying: Aug, [...]e [...]onsen [...]u E [...]ang. lib▪ 1, c. 10 errare meruerunt qui Christum & Apostolos eius non in sanctis e [...]dici [...]us, sed p [...]ctis parietibus quaesierunt. They are worthy to be deceiued that seeke Christ and his Apostles, not in the holy Scriptures,d Or [...]g co [...]tra Cels, lib. 7, but inpainted walles.

And not to stand any longer upon this particular, [...], lib, 1, cap, 24▪ Irenaeus, Origen, Athanas. con­tra Gent, Athanasius, Epiphan. ad 1. ban. Hierosol. Epiph [...]nius, Chrysost, in Gen, cap, 31, ho­mil. [...] 7. Chrysostome, [...]. [...], 3 Hierom: and the rest of the ancient fathers do fully subscribe to the same truth. Yea, the whole Counsell of Eliberis detested painted and carued images, and banished them quite out of their Churches, as idols. Concil, Eli­bert, ca [...], 36. Placuit (say they) picturas in ec­clesius esse non debere, ne quod colitur aut adoratur, in parie­tibus depingatur. Wee haue decreed that pictures ought not to be in Churches, least that which is worshipped or ado­red, [...]e painted on walles,

Although the Councell of Eleb [...]ris did banish I­mages out of their Churches, and would not suffer them to be adored: yet the second Councell of Nice did authorize both the hauing of them, and the ado­ring of them.

What tell you me of the second Councell of Nice? [Page 11] that Councell was not helde till almost eight hun­dreth yeares after Christ. Secondly, I aunswere you that their authorizement of images wāted vniuersa­litie: for there was shortly after a Synode of the Bi­shops of France, Italie and Germanie (in which Charles the great, and the Legates of the Bishop of Rome were present) that condemned the seconde Councel of Nice, as hereticall.

How proue you that?

I proue it by the testimonie of Huicmarus Archbi­shop of Rhemes who liued when these things were fresh in memorie. His testimonie is this. Huicmarus Rhemens. c [...]nt [...] Hui [...]mar. Ian da [...]ensi▪ episc. cap 20 The seuenth generall Counsell so called by the Graecians (indeed a wicked Counsell) touching Images, which some would haue to bee broken in pieces, and some to be worshipped, was kept not long before my time, by a number of Bishops gathered together at Nice, and sent to Rome, which also the Bishop of Rome directed into France. Wherefore in the raigne of Charles the great (and the see Apostolicke willing it so to be) a gene­rall Councell was kept in Germanie, by the con­uocation of the said Emperour, and there by the rule of the s [...]ripture, and doctrine of the fathers, the false Councill of the Graecians was confuted, and vtterly retected: of the confutation whereof was a good bigge booke sent to Rome by certaine Bishops from Charles, which in my young yeares I read in the Palace.

Thus you see, howe that Images were not esta­blished in Churches in these west partes of the Worlde, till almost eight hundreth yeares after Christ.

Wel, be it granted, that other images were not esta­blished in churches before that time: yet it seemeth by the testimonies of Lactant cari [...], de passione. Lactantius, M [...]t [...]l, in Oct [...]uio. Minutius Faelix Tertul, lib, 3. [...]ntr. Marcion. Tertullian, and Chrysost. [...]o­ [...]il. 55. i [...]. Math. Chrysostome, that Crucifixes were vsed in the times next the Apostles.

No, they were not publikely receiued in the Church till aboue seuen hundred yeares after Christ: for it was not decreede till about that time, that the image of Christ should be set vp, Synod Trul­lens. [...]an. 82, proveteri agno, (that is) in the Roome of Agnus Dei. As for the ancient fathers that you alledge to proue the contrarie; they speake not of the formed Crucifixe, but of the reall Cruci­fixe, thatis, of Christ himselfe crucified vppon his owne proper Crosse.

To make an ende nowe of this dayes conference, Iexhort you, as Saint Paul did his auditors at Ly­stra, to turne, Act. 14. 15, [...], from these vaine, foolish and paltry Idols. And to breake this your Crucifixe in peeces, and the rest of your Ima­ges.

Breake my Crucifixe in peeces? marry God for­bid.

If you will not, I will.

Will you?

Yes, see here.

What reason is there, that you should thus breake my Crucifixe in peeces?

Truely, great reasons: for it is Gods commande­ment, that we should Exod, 34. 13. ouerthrow the altars of idolaters and breake, their images in peeces, and cut downe their groues: Wee haue also the examples of sundrie god­ly men, as fit paternes for our imitation herein. To beginne with Moses, Exod. 32 20, Hee tooke the Calse which the Is­raelites had made, and burned it in the sire, and ground it vn­to powder, and strewed it vpon the water, and made the chil­dren of Israil drinke of it.

Hezekiah likewise 2, reg. 13. 4. tooke away the high places, and brake the images and cut downe the groues, and brake in pee­ces the brasen serpent that Moses had made, and called it Neh [...]shtan that is, a peece of brasle.

Loe heere you see, that though the brasen Serpent was an ordinance of God a figure of Christ, and a monument of the Israelites deliuerance from fierie Serpents in the Wildernesse, yet when it was abused to idolatrie, this good King brake it in peeces, and (not thinking it worthie to be called a Serpent) cal­led it (by contempt) Nehushtan, a peece of brasse.

I see that Kinges may lawfully breake images in pieces: but it followeth not, that you may therefore lawfully do the same.

Yea but Epiphanius also, though he was no King; yet finding a painted cloth in the Church of Anab­letha by Ierusalem, he did Epiphan. epist an Iohan. Hie­rosolymit. (as he himself reporteth) teare it in pieces, and pronounced that painted i­magery, notwithstanding it represented Christ or one of the Saints, to be quite contrarie to the sacred scriptures. And thus for this time I leaue you; trust­ing that you will not impute that to mee as a vice, which in Epiphanius is accounted as a vertue.

I cannot but impute thi [...] vnto you as a vice; be­cause it appeareth hereby, that you are an enemie to the Crosse of Christ, and are ashamed thereof.

No sir, August. de ver bu Apost. [...]erm, 8 Non pudet nos crucifixi; sed in parte vbi sig­num pudoris cst, signum crucis eins habemus. Wee are not ashamed of him that was crucified; but in that part where the signe of shame is, haue we the signe of the Crosse. And for mine owne part, Aug, in Psa. 141, Ʋsque adeo de cruce non erubesco, vt non in occulto loco habeā crucem Christi, sed in fronte por­tem: I am so little ashamed of the Crosse of Christ, as that I beare it, not in a secret place, but in my for­head. Yea, I am so farre from playing either the [Page 15] Insultet P [...]ga [...]us [...] Christe, videā ego in front [...]as r [...]gum ciucens Christi, Aug. in Psalm, 141. Pagan or Puritane, as that when I Baptize any, Iu [...]us Mar­tyral Orth [...] [...]ox­os, a [...] quest, 118 a Bu [...]er. Dextramanu in nomine Christi eos consigno. With my right and [...]gne then, in the [...]ame of Christ. a Signum hoc nontam quo [...] est vsu [...] inecclesits anti quissimi, quam quod est adm [...]um simplex, & praese tis admonitionis crucis Christi, adhiheri neciu decens necinuttle existimo si adhi­beatur modo pure intellectum & religiose excipiatur, nulla superstitione adiuncta, &c. And I holde it neither vn­seemely, nor vnprofitable, that the signe of the Crosse should be vsed in Baptisme, not so much, because it is of that long time and continuance in the Church, as that it is of so good vse, and tendeth to such good end, as being most simple and of present admonition, as putting vs in mind of the Crosse of Christ, so it be rightly vnderstood and religiously inter­tained, wihout any addition of superstition,

The second Dialogue.

O grosse! what a number of Gods haue you?

There were not wont to be so many Gods, as now a dayes; the heauens were content with a smaller number of them, and laide lesse burthen vppon the shoulders of poore. Atlas.

Gods? Bellar [...]. de beatitud. Sanct. lib. [...] cap, 19, We make them not our Gods, but our inter­cessours onely to God for vs.

Yes, you make them not your intercessours one­ly, but your protectors, and you hope not onely to be heard by their intercession, but to bee saued by their merits: for of Gregorie, you say thus in your praiers.

That is, let him saue vs frō our sins, that in heauen we may rest with the blessed. And of Sabbas you say: Missal, Rom [...]x co [...]cil Tri­d [...]at [...] ▪ in [...] D [...]c [...]mbr [...], p [...]ge 5. Let ble­ssed Sabbas by making intercessiō for vs, protect vs, O Lord: and of all the Apostles in generall. Missal▪ Rom, in prefat, [...]eria [...] de Apo [...]o [...]is. by thy Apostles keepe vs, continua protectione, with thy continua [...]l protecti­on. And of Saint Peter and of Saint Paule in parti­cular: [...], Rom. Concede vt amborum meritis, aeternitatis gloriam consequamur: grant that by the merites of them both wee may obtaine eternall glorie. And of Mathias: Missal, Rom, in festis februarij page. 38, per­sancti Mathiae orationem nos expiari facias et defendi: by the prayer of Mathias make vs to be cleansed from our sins, and defended. And Missal, Rom▪ in festis Ianuarij page 27. let not the prayer of Saint Chryso­stome be wanting vnto vs; quae et munera nostra conciliet, & tuam nobis indulgentiam semper obtineat, which may both cause our gifts to be accepted, and also obtaine thy par­don for vs.

As for the Virgin Marie, you make intercession to her, not onelie by requesting, but also by meriting; yea, by commanding; as appeareth by this speech of Damianus: Damian serm. 2 de nat▪ Mari [...] ▪ Accedis ad illud aureum reconciliationis altare, non solum regens, sed etiam imperans, non ancilla sed domina: thou hast accesse vnto that golden Altar of reconciliation, not onely gouerning, but also commanding; not an handmaide, but a Lady. And you applie that vnto her, which in the Psalmes is spoken of God the father and the sonne: for thus you pray: In te Domina speraui, miserere mei Domina: dixit dominus dominae mea, sede mater mea adextris meis, &c. that is, in thee O La­dy haue I put my trust, O Lady haue mercie vppon mee, the Lord said vnto my Lady, O my mother sit thou on my right hand, &c. And thus, Missal. parisi­ens. O foe­lix p [...]erpera,

That is, O happie mother, which d [...]est purge a­way our sinnes, by thy mothetly authoritie com­mand our redeemer. And againe

Blot out the sinnes of vs miserable wretches, wipe away the filthines of vs sinners, and by thy prayers giue vnto vs the life of the blessed.

Yea, you commend your selues vnto her alone, say­ing.

O Queene of heauen, mother most deare to thy sonne, doe not thou despise mee, vnto thee alone I commend me. And you exclude our Sauiour Christ from his office of redemption, and make her Innocentius in orat, [...]e 300, di [...]r. indulgent. Desperatorum spem vni­cam, peccatorum saluatricem, The onely hope of them that are in despaire, and the sauiour of sinners: You doe also hold it lawfull to say the Pater noster to saints; and to say vnto them vide Fox. Act. et mon. pag, 1274. hallowed be your names, because God hath made their names holy, and that their kingdome may come, because the kingdome of heauen is theirs by possession: and farther that their wills may be done, seeing that their will is Gods will: and so of the other petitions.

[Page 23]But to adioyne one answere more, though you did but pray vnto saints, as intercessors onely. Yet thereby do you make them Gods▪ and consequently idols: for by praying vnto them you acknowledge that they haue power to heare and helpe in all pla­ces, and at all time, ^s & that they know the secrets of your hearts. Now to heare and to discerne the verie heart, is a proper action of the God-head: for the Lord (as Salomon saith) 1. Reg▪ 8. 39. onely knoweth the h [...]arts of the children of men. Prayer also is a proper part of Gods worship, as Christ our sauiour teacheth, say­ing, Matth: 4 10. Him only shalt t [...]ou serue. Now then it follow­eth by necessarie consequent, that you make the saintes Gods, by your ascribing to them the proper actions of the God-head, and by giuing that to them, which is Gods in propertie: for to what thing soe­uer the glory that is due vnto God, is ascribed; it is made another God, as appeareth, by these places of scripture, Gen, 30. 2. Am I as God who hath depriued thee of the fruit of the wombe, 2. Reg. 5. 7. Am I a God to kill and to giue life, Isay, 48. 11. My glorie will I not giue to any other.

But to proceed, how do you proue, that the Angels, the Virgin Mary, and the rest of the saintes, do heare our prayers, and make intercession for vs: & that we are to pray vnto them.

Our chiefest argument is drawne from the testi­monies of the auncient fathers.

From the auncient fathers! I haue perused some of them, yet could I neuer find in them any ground [Page 24] for this matter. Nay I find much to the contrarie. To beginne with Saint Origen he telleth vs, Ori [...], contra Cels [...]m lib, 5, Quod om­nia vota, omnes interpellationes, deprecationes, et gratiarum actiones destinandae sunt ad deum rerum omnium domi­num, that all vowes, all requests, prayers, and thanks­giuings, are to bee directed to God the Lorde of all thinges: Ibid. and that none should dareto offer pray­ers, nisi soli dommo deo, but only vnto the Lord God. And what neede we to ofter our prayers to any but to him? Ambr. s [...]in epist ad, Rom, 1. ad deum promerendum suffragatore non opus est, sedmente deuota: to winne God vnto vs wee neede none to speake in our behalfe, but onely a deuout minde. Chrys [...]st▪ de pae­nitentia, hom. 5. Let vs therefore (to vse Saint Chrysostomes wordes) fly vnto God, who is both willing and able to ease our miseries. If we had a sute to men, we must first meete with porters and warders, and perswade parasites and iesters, and oftentimes goe a great waie. But in God there is no such thing. Sine mediatore ex­orabilis est, sine pecunia, sine impensa precibus annuit, with­out a mediatour hee is to bee intreated; and hee yeeldeth vnto our prayers withoutmony, and with­outv Lactant, diuin. Iustit, 2, 17. cost and charges. Yea, it is but in vaine for vs to offer any such honour to the Angels and saintes: ^u nullum enim sibi honorem tribui volunt, quorum henor in deo est, for those whose honour is in God, will haue no honor ginē to thē. But to giue you a blow with the hammer of heretickes August de cura promortuis gere­da, cap, 15. saint Augustine, was perswa­ded, that if the dead did knowe the actions of the li­uing, and vnderstand the secret thoughtes of the heart, that then his mother Monica, who loued him dearely in her life-time, would sometime haue appeared to him after her death: and that shee being in a life offarre more felicitie, would not haue growne so cruell towardes him. But he saith, that she was ne­uer present with him, neither by dreame, nor any ap­parition whatsoeuer, and therefore hee suspected [Page 25] greatlie, that shee had no knowledge of him. Yea, Aug. ibid he alledged Isai. 63. 16. Doubtlesse thou art our father: Though Abraham be ignorant of vs, and Israell knowe vs not, yet thou O Lorde art our father and our redeemer: and thy name is for e­uer.

Which confession of the people, made him to thinke, that the dead doe not know the deedes of the liuing. Ibid. He alleadged also 2. Reg. 22, 20, where it is saide, that Iosias was taken away; that hee might not see the euill, which was to come vppon the Land.

But not to stand any longer hereuppon; your An­gelicall Doctor acknowledgeth, that the soules of those that are departed out of this life, do Exse. Aq [...]n part, 1, quae [...] 89 art, 8, of them­selues know nothing that is done here belowe vpon the earth. The place of Scripture that made him acknowledge this was Iob. 14. 21. Where it is saide, that a dead man doth not know, if his sonnes shall be honourable, neither doth he vnderstand concerning them, whether they shall bee of lowe degree. And truely this is a verie pregnant place: for if a dead man doe not know that which is sensible to the eye of man; how is it possiblie that he should know the se­crets of mens hearts, which are insensible, and can­not be seene but by the all-seeing eye of God.

Sir, although you can finde no ground for this mater, in the writings of the ancient fathers, yet I can: for I finde that S. Austen himselfe, prayed both to the Aug, in serm. 19, de San [...]. Virgin Mary, and to Aug in med [...]a tiombus. other Saints, and that he was of opiniō, that the Aug, de vera Relig, cap, 55, Angels do both heare our prayers, Aug, [...]pt [...], 120 & de­liuer our prayers vnto God, yea that we may Aug, tra [...], 84. in Iohan, pray to the [Page 26] Martyrs that they may pray for vs, that wee may walke in g Aug cōfess, 93 their steps. ^q He did also verily thinke that his friende Nebridius did thinke on him in heauen. And before him S. Chrys [...]n ps [...] 8 Chrysostome, made mentiō of the intercessiō of the Virgin Marie, and of other of the saints. And in the works of Gregorie Nazianzene, I finde cer­taine prayers of his both to the Virgin Gre [...], naz [...]anz, [...], 29. Marie, and to Orat, 31, Athanasius. Ioyne hereto the testimony of saint Hieron, epist. 25 lerome who saith, that Blesilla being dead, did pray for her mother Paula being aliue.

I answere you foure wayes▪

First, I say that there are many thinges in the wri­tings of the ancient fathers, which are fathered on their names: whereas indeede they are not theirs, but some base fellowes, who to win credite to their wri­tings assumed noble names, as an one of our iudiciousm [...], in Problemat. diuines hath shewed at large.

Secondly, I answere, that the fathers which you all eadge for the proofe of this matter, did not at the first ponderously consider of this question, and that afterwards when they did iudiciously sift it, and dis­cuss it, they were either of acontrarie opiniō to their former, or spake thereof very faintly, waueringly and doubtfully. To verifie what I haue said, take a view of saint Austen, who being to dispute this very question, saith thus: August, de [...]u­ra [...]ro mo [...]tu [...] ge­ [...]enda cap, 13. vt volet accipiat quisque nod dicam: let euery man as it pleaseth him, take that which I shall say. Nazianzene, also speaking of saint Basile being dead, vseth this doubtfull speech: Greg Naztanz. or [...]t, 30. Nowe is Basile in heauen, and there, vt opinor as I thinke, he of­fereth sacrifices for vs and powreth out prayers for the people: and speaking of his dead sister Gorgonia, he saith thus: Idem cra [...], 25, St quid nostros etiam honores curas, &c. [Page 27] If thou take any care of the honouring of vs, and if this reward be giuen by God vnto holy soules, that they shail perceiue these things, then receiue my prayer.

Thirdly, although, some of the ancient fathers, were happily of this opinion; yet all were not: for I haue shewed, that some of them did hold the quite con­trarie.

Fourthly although the ancient fathers had all ioyntly embraced this opinion; yet are not we there­fore bound to receiue it. For Aug. epist. [...] we are not to esteeme the disputations of any, yea, albeit they be Catholike and commendable men, to be as the canonicall scrip­tures, so that, saving the honour whichis due to those men wee may dislike and reiect any thing in their writings, if wee finde that they haue thought other­wise then the truth hath, as it shall by Gods assistance be vnderstood, either by others or by our selues. But to draw towards a conclusion, by who thinke you, were these Saints put into the Letanie.

Doubtlesse they were put in by the Catholike fa­thers.

No Sir, they were not put in by any Catholikes, but by Heretikes: for I finde that the hereticke Gna­pheus was the first, that caused the Virgin Marie to be put into the publike prayers of the Church, and to be named in Vt in pre [...]atione omni Dei gen [...] ­trix nomin [...]tur et diui [...]um e [...]s nomen in ve [...]a­ [...]tur▪ [...], lib, 15▪ [...] euerie prayer, and inuocated. And I make no question, but that hee and his fellowes put in the rest of the Saints: and that your pretended Catholike Church doth tread in their steps.

It seemes then, that you hold the honouring of Saints to bee hereticall.

No I hold, that the Saints are to be honoured, and that three waies; viz. by a reuerēt esteeming of them, by a godly imitating of them, and by praysing God for proposing such holy examples to vs, as paternes for our imitation

1 They are to be honoured, by reuerent esteeming of them, and [...]y keeping them in perpetuall re­membrance. Thus the Prophet 2 Sam▪ 1. 16. Dauid commended Ionathan for his feruent and constant loue; Elizeus Elias; & our Sauiour Christ the woman that powred on him a Boxe of ointment, saying: that Marke. 14 19 whersoeuer the Gospell should be preached throughout the world, that which the woman had done in annointing him should b [...] spoken of, for a memoriall of her. And thus the Virgine Marie as a Prophetesse foretelleth that Luke▪ [...], 48. all nations shall call her bl [...]ssed. And this kind of honour did the ancient Nos [...] no [...] templa si [...]ut [...], sed memori­as sicut homini­bu [...] [...]ortuis, quo­ [...] apud deum v [...]nt spiritus, [...]abricam [...], August [...] dei, lib, 22, cap, 10, fathers likewise giue to the Saints.

2 They are to be honoured by a godly imitating of their faith in Christ, the feare of God, and all good vertues wherein they excelled. And for this cause the examples of the godly are called a cloud of witnes­ses, by an allusion to the cloud that did guide the Is­raelites through the Wildernesse: for as that cloud did leade them to the Land of Canaan; so should the examples of the faithfull, lead vs to the heauenly Canaan. And this kind of honour was also giuen to the Saints, by the Orthodoxe [...]lla quidem a­nima in societa [...]e recepta [...]idelium, [...] curat nec quaerit buma nas, imitationem tantum quaerit Aug, epist, 125 Honorand [...] sunt propter imitationem, non adoran­di propter religionem, Idem. fathers.

3 They are to be honoured by giuing God thanks [Page 29] for them, and for the benefits that God vouchsafed by them to his Church. Thus did the Gal, 1, 13. Church glo­rifie God for Saint Paules conuersion. And thus doe wee honour the Saints, but wee dare not goe fur­ther, and robbe God (as you doe) of his honour, & giue that honour to them, which hee hath appropria­ted to himselfe, least wee should bee accounted guil­tie of robberie to our onely Lord and Maister, who is a Exod, 20, 5. Iealous GOD, Isay, 48, [...]. and will not giue his glory to any o­ther.

1 Tim, 1, 17 Now vnto the King euerlasting, immortall; inuisible vn­to GOD onely wise be honour, & glory for euer, and euer,

Amen.

The second Dialogue.

Sir, what newes heare you from London?

Great newes:

What I pray you?

Truely, that one Thomas Percie, and other Po­pish Gentlemen are discouered to haue contriued the most horrible treason that euer entred into the hearts of men.

What treason?

They had thought (horresc [...] referens) to haue ma­ssacred, Se the discourse of the manner of the discouery of this [...] intended treason, page 3, et. 4 [...] ▪ the King our head, the Queene our fertile mo­ther, and those young and hopefull Oliue plants, not theirs, but ours. Our Reuerend Clergie, our honorable Nohilitie, the faithfull Councellers, the graue Iudges, the greatest part of the worthie Knights, and Gentrie, as well as of the wisest Burgesses, the whole Clerkes of the Crowne, Counsaile, Signet, Seales, or of any other principall iudgement [...]eate. All the learned Lawyers, together with an infinite number of the common people. Nay, their furious rage should not [Page 32] onely haue lighted vpon reasonable & sensible creatures, with­out distinctio either of degree sex or age; But euen the insen­sil le shockes and stones should not haue beene free of their fu­ry. The Hall of Iustice; the house of Parliament; the Church vsed for the Coronation of our Kings; the Monuments of our former Princes, the Crowne and other markes of Royalty; all the Records; as well of Parliament, as of euery particular mansright, with a great number of Charters and such like, should all haue beene comprehended vnder that fearefull Chaos. And so the earth as it were ope­ned, should haue sent forth of the bottome of the Stygian lake such sulphured smoke, furious flames, and fearefull thunder, as should haue by their diabolicall domes day destroyed and defaced, in the twinckeling of an eye, not onely our present liuing Princes and people, but euen our in sensible Monu­ments reserued for future ages. So as not onely our selues that are mortall, but the immortall Monuments of our ancient Princes and Nobility, that haue beene so preciously preserued from age to age, as the remaining Trophees of their eternall glory, and haue so long tryumphed ouer enuious time, should now haue beene all consumed to­gether; and so not onely we, but the memory of vs and ours, should haue beene thus extinguished, in an instant.

So that, ^b if the Lord had not beene on our side, (may England now say) if the Lord had not beene on our siae, when men rose vp against vs, they had then swallowed vs vp quicke, when their wrath was kindled against vs. Then the [...] Psa, 124. waters had drowned vs & the streams had gone ouer our soule then had the swelling waters gone ouer our soule. Praysed be the Lord, which hath not giuen vs as a pray vnto their teeth. Our soule is escaped, euen as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken and we are deliuered. And let this our deliuerance moue you to worship our God, and to imbrace our religion.

Why should this moue me?

Surely, if there were nothing else to moue you to an embracing of our Orthodoxe Catholike faith; yet this our late deliuerance, meethinkes, should in­uite you thereunto. Darius, (you know) when hee had seene Daniel deliuered fr [...]m the power of the Lions, hee was thereby induced to feare the God of Daniel, and to make a decree, that in all the domi­nions of his Kingdome, Dan, 3, 26, men should tremble and feare before the God of Daniel. And Nabuchodonosor made the like decree before, when he saw the deliuerance of the 3 children, Dan, 3, 29 that euery people, Nation and Language, which spake any blasphemy against the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, should be drawne in peeces, and their houses should be made a Iakes, because there was no God that could deliuer after that sort. Now let the sameminde be in you, that, was in Darius and Nabuchodonosor: let our deliuerance from this diuelish plot, which was within twelue houres of the execution, moue you to tremble and feare before our God, and to turne Protestant.

Turne Protestant? no, I will neuer turne.

Why will you not?

Why? because your religion is a new religion.

A new religion? you are like the Stoike Philosophers, of whom wee read in the Acts of the Apostles, that they disputed with Saint Paule, and called him Act. 17, 18, 19 a sower of words, a setter out of strang Gods, and a teacher of new doctrine. But I pray you sir, doe you thinke, that your religion is the old religion?

Do I think so? I am past thinking: for I am sure that D. Hill in his quartron of Rea­sons of Catholike re [...]igion, p, 44, it is, (to vse the words of one of our learned doctors) most plainely taught by all the ancient fathers of the first, second, third, fourth, sift, & sixtage after Christ: and that it hath beene (euer without all controuersie) taught by the fathers of euerie age since vntill this day.

It is no wonder to heare an hereticke bragge of anti­quitie; for it hath beene the vsuall manner of here­tickes in all ages, to take vnto themselues the Chuch, Scriptures, fathers, all antiquitie, consent, conti­nuance, and perpetuitie vnto the ende of the world.

To insistin some particulars, Dioscorus, though hee himselfe was an hereticke, yet cried hee out in the Councell of Chalcedon, that hee defended the opinions of the ancient fathers; that hee had the testi­monies of Athanasius, Gregorie, Cyrill, and of the rest of the holy fathers: that he had them, not by snat­ches, or at the second hand, but vttered in their owne bookes: that he did not varie from them in any thing: [Page 35] and that he was cast out with them. His words were these: Concil. Chal▪ Ego habeo testimonia sanctorum patrum▪ Atha­nasis, Gregorij, Cyrilli: non transgredior in aliquo; ego cum patribus ei [...]cior: ego defendo patrum dogmata: ego horum ha­beo testimonia, non simil [...]citer aut transitorie, sed in ipsorum libris.

The like out-crie made the hereticke Euty ches, and Carisius his follower in the same Act, 1, [...] 4. Councell. And weeread how that Vid [...] Aug, con­tra. Cres [...]on. lib. 4. [...]. 17. Cresconius the Donatist, dispu­ting with Saint Austen, cited Saint Cyprian: that the Vide concil, [...] 1, pag, 877, Nestorian hereticke alleadged the authoritie of the Councell of Nice: that the Vide Socrat. lib, 4, c, 26, Arrian hereticke pro­duced the testimonie of S. Origen; and that the No­uatian hereticke, Simiarum mo­re, Cypriā. epist, ad lub. after an apish manner, tooke vnto himselfe the authoritie of the Church, & of all the an­cient fathers thereof.

Now to make application hereof; by the like apish imitation do you take vnto your selues the Church, Councels, fathers, & all antiquitie whatsoeuer.

But what do I tearme it an apish imitation? you do indeede imitate the Asse that Aesope telleth of, which to make other beasts afraide, put on a Lyons skin, & therewith ietted abroad terribly, thinking thereby to deceiue his fellowes; for as the Lyons skinne was but lapped about him, & grew not to his body: so al­though you be no true members of the Church; yet couer you your selues with the title and name thereof; thinking thereby to Diabolus excogi tauit no [...] [...]afrade, vt sub ipso nomi­n [...] Christian t [...] ­tulo fallat [...] tos, Cyprio de Simplicit. [...] rum, deceiue simple people, that are soone inueighled to fācy any thing. And albeit your religion hath not continued the age of [...]n man of the old world, nor come to the age of Methushelah, be­ing not yet nine hundred yeares since first it came to light; yet beare you the worlde in hand, that it hath beene most plainely and euidently taught by all the auncient Fathers of the first, se­cond, thirde, fourth, fift, and sixte age after [Page 36] Christ: and that it hath continued euer since vntil this day▪ [...] cap. [...] [...]. O quantum togmen est falsitatis! O how great a shew doth falshood make!

Not to triffle out the time in words, can you dis­prooue what I haue said.

Yes, I can prooue, that you are so farre from ioy­ning with the ancient fathers, as that you haue indeed ioyned with sundrie ancient heretickes, both in mat­ters of doctrine, and mannes.

With what heretickes?

With the Arrians, Adamians, Abelians, Aetians, Apostolickes, Angelickes, Anthropomorphites, Anomi, Armemij, Bonosians, Basilidians, Beguardines, Caians, Carpocratians, Circumcellions, Cathari, Cataphryges, Capernites, Dositheans, Donatists, Eutycheans, Eunomij, Ethnophronians, Euphemites, Gnosimachi, Heremobaptists, Herodians, Helzaits, Helcesees, Hierarchites, Heracleonites, Monothe­lites, Meletians, Messalians, Marcosij, Montanists, Manichees, Marcionites, Nouatians, Nudipedales, Nazarites, Nicolaites, Osseni, Priscillians, Pepuzi­ans, Pelagians, Prodicus, Pharisees, Scribes, Samp­sees, Seuerians, Simonians, Tatians, Valentinians, & Zuenckfeldians.

To obserue this your Alphabeticall order, wher­in do we ioyne with the Arrians.

The Arrians, though they were abominable He­retickes, yet bragged vide, August, serm. contra Ar [...]a nos, tom, 6, they, that they alone were the true Catholikes, and called all those that were not of their sect, Ambrosians, Athanasians, and Iohannites, so you, although you be indeede nothing lesse then Catholike; yet you doe vsurpe the name of Catho­likes, as due alone to your selues, and do call all those that are not of your faction Harding in his Con [...]at, of the Apol, 42, 81, 222 Zwinglians, Lutherans, Caluinists, and Turkish Hugenotes.

2 The Arrians made great bragges of the longe continuance of their Church, saying; that they could shew, that it had continued circiter mille ducentes an­nos, about a thousand and two hundred yeeres: so do you likewise make great boasts, that you can Rhemist, annot. in Act, 28, sect, [...], shewe the descent of your Church from Adam.

3 The Arrians made vniuersalitie a note of their Church, as appeareth by this speech of Naziauzene: Nazianz. in serm. [...] con. Arriann [...] Vbinam illi sunt qui multitudine ecclesiam definiunt & gregem exiguam aspernantur? Where are they that define the Church by a multitude, and do despise the little flocke? Yea, the Arrian heresie was diffused throughout the whole world, as is apparent by this testimony of saint Hierome: Hieron in di [...] aduers, Luciferia nos. Ingemuit totus orbis, & se Arrianum mira­tus est. Now with these vile heretickes do you agree; for Pellarm, lib 4. de ec [...]les. ca [...], 4, Rhemist, in [...]ct. cap. [...], sect, [...]. you make vniuersalitie to be a marke of the true Church.

4 The Arrians taught, that the Church might expound the Scriptures, at one time one way, and at [Page 38] another time another way: which made Saint Hyla­ry to say thus vnto them; Fides ergo magis temporum est, Hi [...]r. ad con­stantium, uam Euangeliorum: that is, faith therefore followeth the time, and not the Gospell. To this heresie of the Arrians do you fully subscribe: for you teach, that the sence of Scriptures may bee diuers according to the varietie of your practise & diuersity of times. Theh Magister sa [...]ri, pa [...]atij Romae, ad lega [...]os Bohemi­co [...] ▪ su [...] felice pa­pa. pag. 1447. Pope (saith one of your chiefe Masters) may change the holy Gospell, and may giue to the Gospell, ac­cording to the place and time, another sense. Yea, Nicol. C [...]. ad [...]o [...]mo [...] epist, 7 Non est mirum (saith another) si praxis eccl [...]siae vno tem pore interpretatur scripturam vno modo, et alio tempore alio modo: nam intellectus currit cum praxi: intellectus enim, quia cum praxi concurrit, est spiritus viuificans. Sequuntur ergo scripture ecclesiam: & none conuerso. That is, It is noe maruaile, though the practise of the Church doe expo [...]nd the Scriptures, at one time one way, and at another time another way: for the vnderstandinge or sense of the Scriptures runneth with the practise: and that sense so agreeing with the practise is the quickening spirit. And therefore the Sriptures follow the Church: but contrariwise the Church followeth not the Scriptures.

5. The Arrians denied Christ to bee Autotheon, God of himselfe: so doe you likewise denie, that Christ is Autotheos, God of himself; and doe affirme, that he had not onely his person, but his substance of the father: whereupon Rhemist. in Io­ [...]n, 1, sect, 3, you are bold to charge M. Caluin with blasphemie, for saying, that Christ is God of himselfe as well as the father.

But what neede I obserue any semblances betwixt you and the Arrians? your owne writers confesse, that Pope Liberius, gaue his hand and heart unto them. Alphons, de [...]ar [...], lib, 1. [...], 4. De Liberio Papa (saith Alphonsus) constat fuisse Arrianum: as for Pope Liberius, it is well [Page 39] knowne, that he was an Arrian.

The same also acknowledgeth Sabellicus: Sabellic Enne­ad. 7, lib, 8. Arri­ani precibus suis apud Constantium Liberio reditum ad vrbem confecere: quo ille beneficio commotus, ex con­fesso Arrianus, vt quidam scribunt, est factus. That is, The Arrian heretickes, by their intreatie vnto the Emperour Constantius, obtained of him, that Pope Liberius might bee restored againe into the Citie: with which good turne Liberius being mooued, as some write, became an Arrian in good earnest, and with his heart.

With them both agreeth Cardinall Cusanus: Nicol, Cus [...]. d [...] concord, lib, 2, [...], 5 Liberius consensit errori Arrianorum: Liberius gaue his consent to the errour of the Arrians. And in an other place: Cusan▪ de con­cord. lib, 1, [...], 14. Liberius et Honorius, et alij in cathedra Pe­tri aliquando insidentes, in errorem schismaticum seducti ceciderunt: Liberius and Honorius, and other Popes sitting for a while in Peters chaire, being mis­led, fell into schismaticall errour. And thus much concerning your agreement with the Arrians, nowe let vs proceede in order to the rest.

What agreement is there betwixt vs and the Ada­mians.

The Adamians August, d [...]. [...] ­ [...]e [...], cap, [...] ▪ condemned mariage in priests; so do you.

2 The Adamians, though they held it vnlawfull for priests to marrie, yet they held it to bee lawe­full, to haue women and curtizans in common: so doe your diuines of Lovaine holde, that Polluitur sacer­dotium matrimo­nio non mere [...] ­cibus, priestehoode is polluted with Matrimonie, [Page 40] not with harlots. And one of your Iesuites affirmeth, Hoffaeus apud [...] de a [...]e Iesu [...] [...] ▪ cap, 6, et. sect. [...], page, 105. minus peccare sacer [...]otem adulterando, quam coniu­gem ducend [...]; That a priest sinneth lesse by commit­ting adul [...]erie, then by marring a wife.

Wherein do we agr [...]e with the Abelians?

The Abelians, though they August de [...]e­res, cap▪ [...] ▪ thought it vnlawfull for any of their sect to liue without wiues; yet they neuer kept company with them. To this heresie of theirs do your Rhemist. in, Act, 21, sect, 1, Rhemists encline ouer farre: for they hold, that Priests which are married before orders, ought not afterwards to haue accesse to their wiues; & yet are they their wiues stil, neither is the marriage knot dissolued betweene them.

Wherein do we resemble the Actians.

Actius the old hereticke, vsed to say thus: Epiphan, lib, 5, hae [...]s, 56. dor­mire cum muliere extra coniugium, non magis est pecca­tum, quam aurem scalpere: To haue the companie of a wo­man out of mariage, is no more a sinne, then it is for a man to claw his eare. So some of your faction haue not beene ashamed to say, as Iacob▪ de Valentia, in ps. 118 one of your owne side reporteth, that single fornication may be lawfully vsed. q Fornicationem [...]mpli [...]em esse [...] ­ [...]itam.

Wherein doe we ioyne with the Apostolickes?

The apostolicks, August, de hae­res, cap, 40, et Epiphan, hae­res, 61, receiued none into their order, that had wiues or, possessed any thing in propertie; but those onely that vowed pouertie and single life: so doth your Church condemne all Monkes and Fri­ers that possesse any goods in propertie, and both Monkes and Priests that match themselues in mari­age.

Wherein do we agree with the Angelickes, Anthro­pomorphites, Anomi, and Armenij?

The Angelickes were vide Epiphan. de Ange [...]cis, Aug, de haeres, cap, 39. Isidor, lib, 8, Ori­ginum. et concil, Loadicen can, 35 reputed heretickes, be­cause they worshipped Angels: so are you likewise to be reputed, because you pray vnto Angels, say­ing.

The Anthropomorphites Aug, de hares, cap, 50, imagined God to be like a mortal man: so do you, when you figure the image of the most blessed and sacred Trinitie, sometimes with three faces, as in your Horae Mariae comnmō prayer bookes [Page 42] printed in the yeare of our Lorde, 1555. And some­times like an old man, hauing a longe graye bearde, and his sonne sitting by him, with a doue beetweene them.

The Anomi were reputed heretickes, for that they either contemned, or corrupted the law of God; how then can George Do [...]e [...] plai [...]e in [...]u [...]ion [...]a [...]ely pr [...]nt [...]d. you wipe away the blot of heresie, who take away the second commandement out of the de­calogue, and do hold concupiscence to be no sinne, which God in his Exod 20, 17 law condemneth for a sinne?

The Armenij E [...]thymius in Panoplia. worshipped the crosse of Christ: so do you the signe of the Crosse.

Let vs now come to the Bonosians: wherein do we resemble them?

The Bonosians preferred humane traditions be­fore the word of God, so do you. So [...]o in confess Catho [...]. de Eccles page, 138. Traditio, (saith one of your approued writers) est anti quior et efficacior sa­cra sciptura: tradition, is of more antiquitie, and of more efficacie then the sacred scriptures. Canus locorum theol. lib. 3. [...]ol, 98 Adde hereunto, (saith another) that for confounding of here­tickes, there is greater strenght in tradition, then in the scrip­ture.

Wherin do we ioyne with the Basilidians.

The Basilidians did (as both Iraenaeus & Epiphanius do record, Iron. lib, 1, [...], 23 [...]t Epiphā haeres, 24. conceale and hide the mysteries of their Reli­gion, least holy things should be cast to dogs; so doe you, [Page 43] for the selfe same cause, as appeareth by these spee­ches of Harding a popish doctor; Harding, con­ [...]ut 213. Yee prostitute scrip­tures as baudes do their Harlots, to the vngodly, vnlearned, and rascal [...] people. And in in another place: Harding in his Ans, art▪ 15. [...] ­vis, 7. the vnlearned people were kept from the reading of the Scriptures by the speciall prouidence of God, that precious stones should not bee throwen before swine.

2 The BasilidiansIren, lib. 1, ad­vers, haer [...] ▪ [...] ▪ 2 [...] ▪ worshipped Images, and inioy­ned all their followers to do the same: so doe you worship the Images of the Virgin Marie, and of sun­drie other Saints, and do Concil, T [...]d [...] sesse, 9▪ enioyne all men to doe as you do.

3 The Basilidians Iren. lib, 1, [...]. 2. vsed enchantments, and supersti­tious admirations: so do you coniure water, saying: exorcizo te creatura aquae: and salt saying, exorcizo te creatur a salis, you do also coniure and enchant sundry other things, as appeareth by your Vide Meng [...] de exorcism [...]. bookes of exor­cismes, yea you make exor [...]ists and coniurers an ho­lien Rhemists, [...] [...], Tim, 3, sect, 7. Concil. Trident. sess, 7, cap, 1. ⁿ order, and that order a ^o sacrament of the Church

Wherein doe we agree with the Beguardines?

The Beguardines held that Hominem hic perfectum esse posse, Clementin. lib, 5, tit, 3, cap. 3 a man may be perfect in this life: so do your Rhemist, in Io­an, 4, sect, 1, Rhemists in their annotations vpon the Gospell after Saint Iohn.

2 The Beguardines held that Spiritualem hu­manae ob [...]dientiae non esse subiectu: Clementin, lib, 5, tit, 3, c. 3, a spirituall man is subiect to no humane obedience: so do you hold, that Papa solutut est omni [...]ege humana Casus Papales a [...]ud Hosi [...]ens. the Pope is not bounde to any humane lawe, Yea, hee subiecteth not himselfe vnto the lawes of God; but taketh vpon him, to dispense with them at his pleasure, & thinketh that he may lawfully breake them. And if any man chance to tell him of the breach of any lawe: Hee will by and by answeare. [Page 44] Iohan▪ 23. Am not I a Pope? Thereby signifying, that being Pope, he is subject to no law.

What semblances haue you obserued betwixt vs & the Caians?

The Caians [...], [...] 38. worshipped Angels, and prayed vnto them: so doe you, as hath beene alreadie shewed.

2 The Caians [...], Ibid. avouched all their follies and heresies, not by the Scriptures, but by tradition, as they saide, from Saint Paul: so doe you auouch all your fictions and forgeries, not by the Scriptures, but by tradition from Saint Peter. The Popes Territo­ries and Lordshippes are (forsooth) Innocent, 3, [...]x­trav. cap, per ve­nerab [...]em. Saint Peters Patrimonie: his tyra [...]nicall vsurpations, [...] [...]sperg. in Chren, Henric 3, et Onuphrius de 7 vrb. eccles, in Palat, latera [...]. Saint Peters Royalties: his dignitie, Leo epist, 45 Saint Peters honour: his praerogatiue, Ibid. Saint Peters right: his statelinesse, Leo epist, 87. Saint Peters reuerence: his closet, Innocent, 4. ex­trav. cap maiores Saint Peters see: his Citie, Onuphrius de Saint Peters borough: and his poll monie, vrb, eccles. Saint Pe­ters pence. Yea you depend so much vppon Saint Peter, as that you are not ashamed to affirme, that Christ tooke Peter, in consortium indiuiduae vnit at is, into the companie of the indiuisible vnity: and that the Popes speake by the inspiration of Saint Peter. Leo, Ibid, Obtesta­mur h Denarius beati Petri, Math, Pa­ [...]in Henric, 7. [...] Leo epist, 89, (saith Leo) vt e [...] quae à nobis, Deo inspirante, & bea­tissimo Petro Apostolo, discussis, probatis que nunc omnibus causis, decreta sunt, seruetis; That is, We beseech you to keepe those things, which, all causes being discu­sed and proued, haue beene decreed by vs, by the in­spiration [Page 45] of GOD, and of the most blessed A­postle Peter.

Wherein do wee agree with the Carpocratians, and Circumcellions?

The Carpocratians vsed (as both [...], [...], 1, [...] 2▪ Irenaeus and Aug, [...] cap▪ 7▪ Augustine do record) to worship Images, and to burne incense vnto them: so do you.

The Circumcellions [...], [...], [...] thought it a matter merito­rious, to kill those that were contrarie to th [...]ir sect:

So do your Romish Doctors account it lawful: yea meritorious to murther those Princes and people that are not of your Religion. For the proofe here of, I referre you to Cardinall Comos letter that was dated at Rome, Ianuarie the 30. Anno Dom. 1584. Wherein he thus wrote to William Parrie. The [...] [...]. Mon signore la santita de. V. S. have [...]to le lettere d [...]. VS. ael primo c [...]nla fede in [...]lus [...], et not p [...] se nea [...]udare la buona dispositone et risolutione, the schri [...]e di tenere verso [...] ser­vitio et beneficio publico, [...]che la Santita sua lesserta di perseuer are, confarne rinscire lieffetti che V. S. promette: et accioc [...]e tantom iggiorme te, V. S. sia, aiutata da quel buon spirito chel [...] le corcede sua [...]eneditione, plena­ria indulgenz let remissione: di tutti li peccati, secondo cho V. S. ha chieso, assicur and ossiche oltre il merito, ch [...] hauero in cielo Vuo, le anco sua Santi [...]a constituir si debitore aricc▪ noscere li meriti di, V, S. [...] mighor modo che potra, et cio tanto pi [...] quonto che, V. S. vsa maggior modestia in non protender mente. Metta dun [...], ad effetto li suot santi et honorati pensieri, et [...]ttenda aestar sano, Che per fine io me l [...] [Page 46] offero di core, et le desidero ogni buono et felice successo. Di Roma a 30 di Genuaro M. D, Lxxxiiij.

Sir, the holinesse of our Lord hath seene your let­ter with the credence inclosed, and cannot but praise your good disposition and resolution, which (as you write) tēdeth to the seruice & benefit publique▪ wher in his holines exhorteth you to continue, & to bring to passe that which you promise. And to the ende that you may bee aided by that good spirit which hath induced you to this, his blessednes granteth you full pardon and forgiuenesse of all your sinnes, as you requested, assuring you that besides the merite which you shall receiue in heauen, his holinesse will make himselfe a farther debtor, to acknowledge your de­seruing in the best manner that hee may: & so much the more, because you vse so great modesty, innot pretending any thing. Put therefore in act your holy & honourable thoughts, and looke to your safetie. And so I present my selfe hartily to you, and wish you all good and happie successe. From Rome the 30 of Ia­nuarie. 1584.

Loe, here you see, how that Pope Gregory the 13▪ granted to Parry full pardon and forgiuenes of all his sins; and assured him, that he should receiue merite in heauen, if that he could murther his soueraigne. But1. Sam. 26 9. The Pope ta­keth vpon him to do that, which the verie Scribes con­demned, Mark 2, 7. his assurance is little worth, For, *Who can lay his hands on the Lords annointed and be guiltlesse? * and who can for­giue sinnes but God only?

Wherein do weresemble the Capernites and Cata­phryges?

The Capernites dreamed (as the Iohn. 6. Euangelist testi­fieth) of a carnall manner of eating of Christs flesh: so do you, when you affirme that the natural & sub­stantiall [Page 47] bodie of Christ is really eaten with teeth, and locally descendeth into the stomacke. Yea, some of your writers teach, that the bodie of Christ may bee receiued of brute beasts, which the Capernites neuer were so grosse as to auouch, Alexande [...] de [...] pa [...] 3. [...], 45. If a d [...]gge or a hogg▪ saith Alezander de Hales) should eate the whole consecrated host, I see no cause but that the Lords body should goe ther­withall into the belly of that dogge or hogge. Thomas A­quinas also sharpely reprooueth them which thinke otherwise. His words are these: Th [...]m, [...] part, 3▪ [...] [...]. art, [...], Some haue said, that as soone as the Sacrament is taken of a mouse or a dogge, straightway the body and bloud of Christ cease to bee there: but this is a derogation to this sacrament. And of the same blasphemous opinion, is Petrus de Palude, Iohan­nes de Burgo, Nicholaus de Orbellis, with the whole sect of Thomists.

The Cataphryges did make their Eucharist▪ of the [...]de infantis [...], [...], de t [...]to [...] corpore m [...]n [...]t [...] [...] vu­lneribus extor­qu [...]t, quasi [...] [...] ristia [...] [...] b [...]tur Aug. d [...] haeres, c. 26, s Aug. de [...], c, 38, et Isid. [...] ­tym, lib, 8 [...]. de b­ [...]sib [...] Christian. bloud of children: so haue your Priests shewed the people in the Sacrament the bloud of duckes, and Pigeons; making them beleeue, that it was the blood of Christ.

Wherein do we agree with the Cathari.

The Cathari ^s boasted much of their merits, purity and perfection, and accounted all men wicked that were not of their sect: so did the late traytours; as ap­peareth by a certaine letter, which one of them wrote a little before their late intended massacre: wherein are these words: God and man hath concurred to punish the wickednesse of this time.

[Page 48]Loe, these Cacolikes beleeued, that they had speech with God, and that hee enioyned them to kill all the wicked in the Realme, and to constitute a ne we WORLD, consisting onely of the inno­cent.

2 The Cathari Theodo, et, hae­resie lib. 3 rebaptized those that were alreadie baptized: so wee reade in the histories of Fraunce and Flaunders, that the Popish Priests there haue re­baptized those that were alreadie baptized by Pro­testant Ministers.

Wherein do we resemble the Dositheans, and the Donatists?

The Epis [...]an, heres. 13 an ^e Christum Dositheans abstained from the vse of marriage, although they were married, and gaue not that ane beneuolence, which Saint 1, Cor. 7, 3 Paul biddeth the hus­band to giue to the wife, and the wife to the hus­band.

They were also noted for their voluntarie fas­tings, and for their superstious afflicting of their bo­dies.

Nowe, with these heretickes do you goe hand in hand: for you account it great holinesse for married comples to Petrus de soto in ass [...]tione Ca­th o [...]. de votis. liue a sunder, and to take vpon them the vowe of Monkerie. Yea, you holde, that [...] xor catholica v [...]ro haerelico de bitum reddere non tenetur Si­mancha episc. pas­cens, Iussit, catho. a Petrus de Soto in ass [...]. cath, de Ie [...]umo. wiues are not bound to giue to their husbands due benevolence, if they be heretickes: you holde it also to be a worke meritorious, to ^a weare sackcloth, to be giuen continually to fasting, to lie hard, to fare meanely, and by other such waies to punish and af­flict the bodie.

[Page 49]The Donatists August, de ha­res, cap 69, it Cassianus psal. 60. abstained from the assemblies of all other men whatsoeuer, which were not of their opi­nion; and tied to a small corner in Africa, that Catholike Church which is diffused ouer the face of the whole earth.

Now as the Donatists beleeued, that the Church was onely contained in Affricke, and consisted one­ly in the obedience, or parte. Donat [...]. part of Donatus: so do you in like manner beleeue, that noneare true members of the Catholicke Church, which do not take the Popesd Geron▪ mo▪ Can. po [...]m [...], Camsius de praecepus eccles, ar [...], 9, Linda [...]ut lib, 4, 8 [...], Bel­la [...]m, de ecclesia. lib. 3, c, 2, [...] [...], 12, part, liue vnder his obedience, and acknowledge him to be their chiefe pastour, and the vicar of christ vpon earth.

2 The Donatists denied the true preaching of the word of God, to beean infallible note of the Church of Christ: hence was it that Saint Austin disputing with the Donatists, tied both himselfe and his aduersaries to the scripture. His wordes were these. Aug. de, vnitate eccles, c, 16. Ecclesiam suam demonstrent si possunt, non in s [...]r­monibus et rum [...]ribus Afrorum, non in Concilijs Episcopo­rum suorum, non in litteris querumlibet disputatorum, non in signis & prodigijs fallacibus, quia etiam contra ista ver­bo Domini praeparati & c [...]uti redditi sumus; sed in prascripto legis, in Prophetarum pradictis, in Psalmorum cantibus, in ipsiusp storis vocibus in Euangelistarum praedicationibus & lahoribus, hoc est in omnibus canonicis sanctorum librorū autoritatibus: That is, Let the Donatists, if they can shew their Church, not in the speeches and rumours of the men of Affricke, not in the councell of their bi­shopes, not in the discourses of any disputers whatso­euer, nor in lying signes and miracles, beecause wee are forewarned and forearmed against these: but in the prescript of the law, in the predictions of the pro­phets, in the verses of the Psalmes, in the voice of the shepheard himselfe, in the preachings and workes of the Euangelists, that is, in all the canonicall authori­ties [Page 50] of the holy scriptures.

Nowe as the Donatists reiected that which is the true and infallible note of the Church, and depended vpon the speeches of the men of Africke, vppon the Councell of their Bishoppes, and vpon lying signes and miracles: so do you as the writinges of sundry Popish Hosius Cardi­nal, in Confess, Petroc [...]uiens cap 21, in explicat Symboli. Linda­nus in Pa [...]oplia lib, 4, cap, 83, So [...]us contra wit tenbergens, in c, de eccles, Cauerus de notis eccles. Canisius in suo Catechism. in tract de prae­cept eccles, Bellarm, de notis eccles, lib, 4, c, 3, Stapleton. lib, 1, de princip, doc­trin, cap, 19, & Horantius contra Caluini Iustitut. lib. 6, cap, 6, writers giue sufficient testimonie.

3 The Donatists thought that a man ought not to be forced to the truth, as appeareth by these words of Saint Austen to Aug, epist, 5, h Aug, lib, 2. contra Petil, c, 78, Vincentius: Thinkest thou, that noe man ought to be forced to righteousnesse, wheras thou readest that the Maister said to his seruants: compell all that you finde to come in. The same father also testifieth, that Petilian another Donatist, cried out thus: b Iesus Christus it a fidem venerat facere, non vt cogeret homines, sed potius inuitaret. Quod sicogiper legem aliquam vel ad bonalicuisset, vosipsi miseri a nobis ad fidem purissimam cogi debuistis. Sed absit, absit a nostra conscientia, vt ad nostram fidem iliquem compellamus: That is, Iesus Christ came so to worke faith, not that he might compell men, but rather inuite them. But if it were lawefull that any should by the law be compelled, yea euen vnto, good things, you wretches ought to bee compelled by vs, to the most pure faith: but farre be it, far be it from our consciences, that wee should compell men vnto our faith.

This frantike errour of the Donatists, haue some of your Popish Doctors lately reviued and renewed with fresh and new colours. D. Hill in his Quartron of reasons, of Ca­tholike religiō. page, 181, If your seruice (saith one of them) were good and godly indeede, and the verie true seruice of God, &c. yet are you not to request me, much lesse vrge me to goe to your seruice. Againe, Page, 182. greatly do you offend GOD there in England, in forcing people to goe to the CHVRCH, contrary to their conscience.

[Page 51]4 The Donatists, albeit they in wordes pro­fessed meakenesse, and saide, that they would vse no compulsions in matters of religion: yet would they haue vsed compulsion, had they beene able to haue done it.

August, contra Crese, lib, 4, c, 5 [...] Hoc modo et miluus, saith Saint Austen, cum pullos rapere tertitus non potuer t, columbum se nominet: That is, after the same sort, the Kite; when he is not able to snatch away the chickens, may name himselfe a doue.

So you professe the meekenes of doues, because you are not able to snatch away the chickens: I meane, that you would vse compelling meanes, to bring vs to your Romish faith, if power were not wanting in you.

Wee are well enough acquainted with the furious rigour and violence, that the Popes agents vsed in this Land, in the dayes of Queene Mary: with their Read the, 11 booke of the Acts and mo­numents. imprisoning, chaining, scourging, scorching and burning of old, yoong men, women; learned, and vnlearned. O quot Nerones, quot Domitiani, quot Commods, quot Bossiani, quot immites Dionisy hanc terrā peragra­uere?

5 The Donatists (as Saint August. cotra, epist, Parmen, lib, 1, c, 7, et, lib, 2 c, 9, et, contra, 2, Gaudentij, epist, lib, 2, c, 11 et, c, 26, et contra Crescon, lib, 3, c, 51, et, lib 8, c, 5 [...] contra literas Petil [...] lib, 2, c, 9 [...] et epist, 50, 48, 166, Austen testifieth in sundrie places of his writings) held, that Christian Princes ought not to meddle with men and matters ecclesiasticall; so do Bellarm, de Clericis, c, 28, [...] de Po [...]ifice, Rom lib, 1, cap, 7, et, Rhemist, in Heb. 13, 17, in Rom, 13, sect, 5, in 1, cor 14. 16, you.

6 The Donatists viuebant, vt, latrones, honorabantur vt, martyres, Aug. epist, 68, liued as the eues, and were honoured as Martyrs: so doe you honour Millions as Martyrs, which died for conspiracies, treacheries, idolatries, and other such like capitall crimes: See the Ca­tholikes Sup­plication, exhi­bited to the King at his first entrie into this Realme. Our religion (saie you) is sealed with the blood of Milli­ons of Martyrs.

All this which you say, wil not moue me to forsake my religion: for herein was I baptized, herein haue I hitherto liued, and hearein will I die.

You are much like the hereticke Eutiches, who be­ing required by the ancient fathers assembled in the Councell of Calcedon, to ioyne with them in the profession of the Apostolique faith: when hee was not able to answere such arguments as were obiected a­gainst his recusancie, pretended his baptisme, and said: Concil, chalced Act. 1, Sic aprogenitoribus meis accepi, et credidi: in hac fide baptizatus sum, & signatus: et vs que ad hunc diem in ea vixi, et in eaopto mori: that is, thus haue I receiued of my forefathers, and thus haue I beeleeued: in this faith was I baptized, and signed: and in the same haue I liued vntill this day; and in the same I wish to die.

But tell me I pray you, did you in baptisme pro­fesse the Romish Religion? were you baptized in the name of your holy father the Pope, or in the name of the father, of the sonne, and of the holy Ghost? and do you stand bound in baptisme to yeelde faith and obedience to any person, saue to God onely, the or­dainer of the sacrament of baptisme? Did the Pope, or any of his pol­shorne Priests baptise you? No August contra. Petil, lib, 3 6, 49 it is Christ that baptizeth, as Saint Austen hath well ob­serued And (to vse Saint Chrysostomes wordes) Chrysost. in Mat. bomil, 51 It was not the Priest that Baptized thee: it was God himselfe that held thine head. Thy baptisme there­fore bindeth thee, not to the Bishoppe or Church of Rome, but to the will and precepts of God, who held [Page 53] thine head, and in whose name thou was bapti­zed.

Well, haue you obserued any other semblances betwixt vs and the Euticheans.

Yes, the Euticheans Vide Aug, de haeres. c. 92. denied, that Christ after the vnion of the two natures, had a true body; but (as Leo signifieth) Leo, de ieiu [...]i [...] 7, miens, serm, 6, a body without shape, dimensions or circum­scriptions: so doe you hold, that Christes bodie in the sacrament is without all shape, and dimensions, that may be perceiued.

2 The Euticheans saide, that Christ was whole both in heauen and earth, as appeareth by Vigilius his speech against them: V gellius lib, 4 cotra Eutich, [...] 4, the flesh of Christ when it was on earth, surely was not in heauen, and nowe because it is in heauen, certainely it is not on earth.

Nowe your transubstantiation bringeth in this Euticheanisme: for you hold that the bodie of Christ is both in heauen and earth at one time; Yea, on as many altars, and in as many places, as the sacrament is.

3 The hereticke Eutiches, although the Scriptures were against him; yet did, hee beare the world in hand, that they were on his side. Concil. Chalced, 4. Tell me (quoth he, iesting with them that reasoned with him) in what scripture lie the two natures? So although your religion be repugnant to the sacred Scriptures, yet you blush not to avouch that See the Ca­tholikes Sup­plication, be­fore alleadged, it is agreeable to the sa­cred text of Gods word and Gospell.

4 Carisius, Eutiches his follower boasted, that the auncient fathers' were on his side, when as in­deede [Page 54] they were against him; Concil. Chalced, act, 4. Ego (saith he) secundum expositionem trecentorum octodecim paetrum sis credo: thus doe I beleeue according to the three hundred and eighteene fathers. So do you make great bragges, that all antiquitie is on your side, and that your See the Ca­tholikes Sup­plication. reli­gion was beleeued by all primitiue Pastours, establi­shed by all oecumenicall Councels, and vpheld by all ancient Doctors. But I hope to make it more then manifest before I leaue you, that it is indeede the common sewer of heresies.

Wherein do we agree with the Eunomij, Ethno­phronians and Euphemites?

Eunomius taught, that so a man were of his faith and religion, it skilled not greatly what sinnes hee committed: Aug, de hae­res, cap, 54, fertur atiam (saith Saint Austen) vsque adeo fuisse bonis moribus inimicus, vt asseueraret, quod nihil cuiquam obesset quorū libet perpetratio, ac perseuerantia pec catorum, sihuius, quae ab illo docebatur, fidei particeps esset.

To this heresie of Eunomius subscribeth Cardinall Bellarmine: for hee teacheth, that so a man adhere to the Church of Rome, and professe outwardly this Roman religion, it skilleth not whether hee haue any inward vertues, or no. His words are these. Bellarm, de ec­cies, milit, cap, 2, This is the difference betweene all other opinions and ours: that all other require inward vertues, to make one a member in the Church, and therefore they make the true Church in­uisible: but wee although we beleeue, that there are to bee [Page 55] found in the Church all vertues, faith hope, and charity: yet that one may be said in any sort to be a member of the true Church, whereo Damascen, de haeres 6. the Scripture speaketh, wee doe not thinke that an inwarde Vertue is required, but onely an out­warde profession of faith, and fellowshippe of Sacra­ments.

The Ethnophroniās fobserued diuers heathenish cu­stomes: so do you, as hereafter (God willing) shalbe shewed at large.

The Euphemitae would needes (as Epiphan, hae­res, 80. Epiphanius reporteth) be called Martyriani, because of the mul­titude of their supposed martyrs: the like conceite haue you of your selues; otherwise you would not bragge of your Millions of Martyrs, and honour e­uerie traytour as a Martyr, as you vsually doe.

wherein do we resemble the Gnosimachi and He­merobaptists?

The Gnosimachi held, that Damascen do haeres, Vulgar Christians were not to study the Scriptures, so do Navarius in Enchirid, et, Ho­sius, lib, 3, de au­thorit art scripturae. you.

The Hemerobaptists were Isidor. Etymol, lib. 8, cap, de hae­res, Iudaeorum et Epiphan, de haeres, 17, ante Christum. reputed heretickes, because of their continuall washings: so may you be reputed, because you vse to sprinkle your selues with holi-water.

2 The Epiphan de haeres, 17. ante, Christum, Hemerobaptists thought they were cleansed from their sins by these their washings: so do you, as heareafter (God willing) shall be plainely shewed.

Wherin doe we agree with the heretickes, which Saint Aug, de haeres. cap, 47, Austen calleth Hierarchitae, and Isidor, Etymol, lib, 18, cap, de hae­res, Christien. Isidore Heraclitae?

They held (as the same Ibid. fathers testifie) that children, dying yong, shalnot possesse the kingdome of heauen: so do [...], Tridet. sess, 7 ca [...] ▪ 7▪ Be [...]a [...]m, lib, 1, de baptism, c. 4. Po­sition. Ingolsta ai ens de purgat et. George D [...]di [...] in his instrut [...]on of Christia religren pag 13. you exclude all children out of the kingdome of heauen that die vnbaptized, and doe place them in limbo puerorum.

Wherein do we ioyne with the Herodians.

The Herodians [...] Damas [...]en de [...]ares, gaue the name and honour of Christ to Herode: so do you giue the names and ho­nour of Christ to the Pope; allowing these wordes of Bernard to Eugenius: Bernard, ad Eu­genium. vnctione Christuses, Rog. Cup [...]rs de [...], et Christ­u [...] domini: That is, Thou art by vnction Christ, and art therefore to be called the Lords Christ. Yea, you say, that the Pope is, [...] in [...], 22. aeque ac Christus deus, ens secundae intentionis, compositum ex deo et homine, That is, a God as well as Christ, a being of the second intention, com­pounded of God and man: and that [...] Cu [...]s de [...], p. [...]28. [...] 6 [...] [...] regum et Dominus Domi [...]. Christ and the Pope in the Church are vnum et idem caput, one and the same head.

But to speake particularly of Christ offices, you giue to the Pope, Christs Kingly, Priestly, and Pro­pheticall offices.

To beginne with his Kingly office, the Pope is (saie your blasphemous writers) 1 The R. Cu [...]ers de [...] ▪ pag 43. [...]t. Paul. 4, ad D [...]cē [...], in Pulla King of Kinges▪ and Lorde of Lordes, [...] et [...], 6. the Lyon of the Tribe of Iuda, [...]. lib, 1, sect. 7, to whome al [...] power is giuen in hea­uen and earth. As for his priesthood, this also you giue to the Pope: calling him Distinct▪ 40, [...] Papa [...] R, Cupers page, 29 Andreas in cap. quanto de traslat et Pa [...]m. [...]ap, [...]. Pontificem optimum [Page 57] maximum, and that great Priest according to the order of Melchisedeke.

And as touching his Propheticall office, what doec Amicius epist ded [...]at [...]ad, Greg, 13. you not oppugne it? for you giue unto the Pope su­preame authoritie, in interpreting of the Scriptures, account him the supreame iudge in controuersies of religion, and preferre his iudgement before the iudgement of the whole world.

Cuperi de eccles page 11. Papae sententia (saith one of your writers) totius or [...]is placito prefertur. Ioharmes de Turre cremat [...] lib, 3. cap. 64. Et si totus mundus (saith another) sentiret contra Papam, videtur quod sententiae Papae stan­dum esset. Yea, you make olde wiues fables, of equall authoritie to the wordes of the Gospell, and com­mande, that their traditions, be honoured Concil, Trident sess. 4, paripieta­tis affectu ac reuerentiae, with the like affection of pi [...]ty and reuerence.

Wherein resemble we the Heracleonites?

The Heracleonites did August de hae­res, cap, [...]6, et Epiphia▪ haeres▪ 6 annoint their followers departing out of this life, and gaue them a kinde ofi Vide Bellarm. de sacrā, extrem. vnct, cap, 10, et Compend theol, lib▪ 6 c, 35. extreame vnction: so haue you deuised a sacrament of Concil, Tria [...]nt sess. 14. can, 1▪ Bellarm, de sa­cram. extrem, vnct, cap, 2, Catech, [...]ō, p, 495 Gregor. de Val­entia, lib, de nu­mero sacram no­ [...]ae legis cap, 1, Canisius de sa­cram sect, 5, Henricus Henri­ques lib, de Sa­cram▪ cap▪ 7. extreame vnction; wherein you annoint the fiue sences of the sicke partie; his eyes, eares, nostrels, mouth and hands; also theireynes which is the seate of concupiscence, and his feete which are the instru­ments of execution.

2 The Heracleonites vsed certaine Aug. de haeres▪ c, 16, et, Epipha [...]. prayers, or rather magicall enchantments ouer the sicke: so doe you.

3 The prayers which the Heracleonites vsed ouer the sicke, were in a Hebraicisver­bis, August de haeres, c, 16. strang language; so are yours.

[Page 58]4 The Heracleonites grounded their annointings and prayers, vpon the first Chapter of Saint Iames; so do you, as appeareth by these wordes of Canisius; Canisius de Sacram, extrem. vnctionis, huic sacramento testimonium longe clarissimum praebet Iacobus Apostolus, cum in haec verba scribit: infirmatur quis in vobis? inducat presbyteros Ecclesiae, et orent super eum, vngentes eum oleo in nomine domini. Howe sandie a foundation this is, I hope to make it appeare most euidently, in an other place. I will nowe but touch and goe.

5 The Heracleonites, ascribed remission of sins, to their prayers, charmes and annointings, as these words of Saint Austen giue sufficient witnesse, Aug, de haeres, cap, 16. fe­runtur morientes suos nouo modo, quasi redimere, id est per olcum, balsamum, et aquam, & inuocationes, quas hebraicis verbis dieunt super capita corum.

The same power ascribe you to your prayers ouer the sicke, and annointings: for you affirme, that this vnction Canisius de Sacram, extrem. vnct, et Catech Rom, page 500 giueth health to the bodie, Pellarm, de, Sacram, extrem. vnct, ca, 7, et, 8. Gregor, de va­lent, lib, 1. de, numero Sa­cram, c, 1, Con­cil, Trident, less 4, c, 4, Catech, Rom, page 505 et Canisius, de sacram ex­trē vnct, sect, 1, wipeth away the reliques of sinne, and Catechism, roman, pag, 507, causeth the Deuill to flee from them.

Wherein doe wee agree with the Helcesees, and Halzaits?

The Theod, hae [...]e­ricarum fabular lib, 2, cap, de Helcesees. Helcesees, made a twofould Christ: the one aboue in Heauē; the other below here vpō the earth: so do you faigne a twofould Christ, the one aboue in heauen which is visible, palpable, and circumscrip­tible: the other in the sacrament, which is inuisible, incircumscriptible. &c.

1 The Epipha haeres, 19, ante Christū Helzaits prayed in a tongue not vnderstood of the common people: so do you. [Page 59] 2 The Epiphan, Ibid▪ Helzaites worshipped the reliques of Saints: so do you.

Wherein do wee ioyne with the Meletians, and Messalians?

The Theod, haeres fabul, lib, 4. Meletians vsed mauy sacring belles in their seruice: so do you. Yea, ye are worse then the Mele­tians: for the Meletians did not baptize bels. But ye Vide Heshus [...] de er [...]o [...]bus Pontif, loc, 16, baptize belles, and ascribe vnto them a spirituall power against euill spirits, thunder, lightning, &c. Vide fox, martyrolog, p. 865. col, 1, ed▪ This was one of the grieuances which the Princes of Germany complained of, in the assemblie at No­remberg, that the Suffraganes exacted of the people such greate summes of money, for baptizing of belles.

Yea, we read, that Pope Iohn the fourteenth, At the coro­nation of the Emperour Otho. bap­tized the great bell of the Church of Laterane, and gaue vnto it his owne name.

[...] The August de hae­res, cap, 57 Massalians did mumble ouer their prayers with their lippes, hauing their hearts far from God; and beleeued that they were hearde for their much babling: so do you mumble ouer your prayers, upon a paire of beades, and rehearse a number of Aue Maries, Pater nosters, and Creeds. To giue an in­stance in your Printed, anno Dom▪ 15 83, Iesus Psalter, in the Preface of that booke; You giue vs to vnderstand, that there bee three kindes of Psalters. The first is Dauids Psalter, which containeth thrise fiftie Psalmes: The seconde, our LADIES Psalter, and containeth thrise fiftie AVE MARIES: [Page 60] and the third is Iesus Psalter, containing fifteene pe­titions, which being ten times repeated, doe make in all thrise fiftie. And iust sutable hereunto there are fifteene petitions, where Iesu Iesu, Iesu mercy, is ten times worde for worde to bee repeated, in the begin­ning of them. And if you faile in the account, your denotion is imperfect.

2 The Theod. diuin, decret. cap, de baptismo, Messalians affirmed, that baptisme was onely auaieleable to cut away former sinnes: so doe Conc [...]l, Trident sess, 7, [...]an, 10 Petrus Lomb. lib 4, dist, 14, Rhe­mist, Heb, 10▪ sect [...] ▪ you affirme, that baptisme doth onely purge and respect sinnes past, and that sinnes commttted after baptisme are to bee done away by other reme­dies.

Wherein do weresemble the Marcosij?

The Irenaeus lib, [...], c, 18. Marcosij did baptize in an vnknowne lan­guage: so do you baptize in a language not vnder­stood of the vulgar sort▪

2 The Epiphan. hae­res, [...]4. Marcosij did annoint those, whome they baptized, with Chrisme, and Opobalsamum: so doe you vse annointing in Hugo, lib. 2, de Sacram, part▪ 6. [...]t Ga [...]r [...] ▪ [...]i [...]. lib [...] ▪ distinct, 6, quaest, 3. baptisme, and in Catech▪ Rom, p, 324. confirma­tion.

3 The I [...]enaeus lib [...], aduers haeres, [...]a [...], 15▪ Marcosij accounted themselues perfect: so do your orders of religion account themselues, to be in the state of perfection.

4 The Iren lib. 1, [...] ▪ 1 [...], Marcosij alleadged a multitude of Apocryphall writings: so do you.

5 Epiphan. haeres [...]4▪ Marcus the founder of their faction, went about to make his followers beleeue, that he could transub­stantiate wine into bloud, in the Sacrament: so do you.

Wherin do we agree with the Marcionites?

1 The Epip [...]ā haeres. 42. Marcionites gaue women power to baptize: so do Can. Adijcim [...] 10, quaest. 1, et. [...]an mul [...]er. deconsecrat dist, 4, Bellarm, de baptism. cap. 7. you.

2 The Epiphan, hae­res 42. Marcionites separated married folkes, vn­der the pretence of Religion: so do Bellarm. c, 21, propos [...]t, you.

3 Epiphan. Haeres 42 Marcion, though hee extolled virginity; yet liued he vnchastly: so do your popish Priests.

4 Epiphan. Hae­res. 42. et Tertull lib 4 contra Marcion. Marcion, taught that diuers mens soules were deliuered out of hell, by Christs descending thither: so do Canisius de fid: et symbolo sect. 1 [...] you teach, that the soules of the Patriarkes were in hell before Christs descension: and that they were thence deliuered thereby.Rhemist. in Act▪ 2 sect 12, e [...] George Douly Priest in his p [...]aine instru­ction page. 13.

Wherein do we ioyne with the Manichees?

The August. de cant [...]o no [...]o cap. 6. Manichees taught that Christ had not a true body, but an imaginarie body: so do you, when you affirme, that the body of Christ lyeth hidden in the Eucharist vnder the forme of bread, which can­not be, vnlesse his body be a phantasticall bodie: for euery true body is visible, palpable, and circum­scriptible; & hath the dimensions of height, breadth, and depth.

2 The Leo serm, 4. de, quadragesima [...]t Gelasius apud Gratia, in part. 3 de conse [...]rat, dis­tinct 2. [...]. [...]elatum est, e [...]c comperi­mus. Manichees abstained from the Cuppe of the Lords Supper, and receiued one kind onely: so do Concil. Trident sess, 21 [...]c [...]n 2. Rhemist. in Iohā 6 sect. 11. Bellarm lib. 4, de eucha­rist, cap, 20, you.

[Page 62]3 The Aug epist. 74, Manichees condemned mariage in their Priests, whome for their excellencie they called elec­tos; so do [...], 28, c, nu [...]um fa [...]ere [...] s [...]d [...]aconum. et Catech, Rom, page. 526. you in yours.

4 The August de moribus Manich, [...]ib, 2, c, 13, Manichees although they abstained from flesh in their feasts, yet vsed they diuers other dainty meates: so you, albeit you are Dist [...]nct, 4, can, Denique, enioyned to forbear [...] flesh, yet may you with the Fide [...]rasmum in Colloquio mi­liti [...] et Carthusi­an [...]. Carthusian Monkes, feede on most daintie fish, and powre in wine with­all.

Wherein are we like the Monothelites?

The Monothelites taught, that there was but one wil in Christ: so did Honorius the Pope, as appeareth by this his speech: Concil Con­stant, 6, act, 12, vnam fatemur voluntatem domini nostri Iesu Christi:

2 Polychronius a Monothelite hereticke, went about to confirme his false doctrine by visions and apparitions: and affirmed before the whole Concil, Con­stant, 6, act, 15, Coun­cell of Constantinople, that a certaine beautifull young man appeared vnto him, and taught him to say, that there was but one will in Christ.

Manie such like apparitions produce you for the confirmation of such doctrines as cannot bee confir­med by the scripture: as namely, your blasphemous doctrine of transubstantiation, and adoration of your breaden God, your superstitious prayers for the dead, your heathenish doctrine of Purgatorie, and other such like doctrines of Deuils, and lies of Anti­christ.

What agreement is there betweene vs and Montanus.

Epiphan, [...]ae [...]s, 48, Montanus, albeit he reiected not the sacred scrip­tures; yet disputed, he that they did not containe all things necessarie to saluation: so albeit you reiect not the scriptures, yet dispute Bellarm, de verbo Dei, lib, 4, c, 4, et, 5, Staple­ton, in prefat, in Ret [...]ct, p [...]in, [...] tr [...]. A [...]bertus Pig [...]i [...] d [...] eccles Hierarch, l [...], 1, [...] 2 [...] Ca [...] [...]cor, theol, lib, 3, fol, 98, L [...]danus lib▪ [...] Andradiu [...] Pay­va lib, 2, you, that they containe not all things necessarie to bee knowne concerning faith and manners.

2 Tertul, lib, de anima. Montanus taught, that small sinnes are to bee purged after this life; and that soules shall not de­part out of prison, vntill they haue paide the vtter­most farthing: so doe Concil, Tri­dent. sess, 9 Po [...]itiones Iugo [...] ­stadiens▪ de Pur­gat. Ecclus in positionibus an­ni. 1519, [...], 6 Petrus de Soto in Confess, Cathol de Purgat, Bel­larm, de Purgat, lib, 1. c. 1, et lib, 2 c, 6. et Rhemist, in, Math, 12, sect, 6. you teach, that there is a cer­taine infernall place in the earth, called Purgatorie, in the which, as in a prison house, the soules which are not fully purged in this life, are there to be clean­sed and purged by fire, before they can bee receiued into heauen.

3 Tertul, de [...]o­ron [...], [...] Montanus taught, that prayers, oblations and sacrifices should be offered for soules departed: so do Co [...]cil, Tri­dent, sess, 9, Cat [...]. Rom. pag 127. you teach, that the soules tormented in Purgatorie, doe finde great ease by the prayers, sacrifices, fastes, indulgences, and also by the almes of the liuing.

4 etrus de Soto. in Confess. Cathol. de Purgat, Bel­larm, [...]ib. 2, de Purgat, c. 15, [...] 18, et Rhemist in Thessalo, 2 sect▪ 19 ^p Aug, de hae­res, cap, 26 The Montanists helde the prophecies of Prisca and Maximillain great reuerence: so doe you the lying Legends of Catharine, Brigit, and of others.

5 The Tertul. de, Corona mili [...]es Montanists boasted of their Martyrs; so doe you, as hath alreadie beene shewed.

Wherein do we resemble the Nudipedales, Nesto­rians, Nouatians and Nicolaites?

You resemble the Aug▪ de haeres, cap, 8, Nudipedales in taking it for an act meritorious, to goe barefoote in pilgrimages and pro­cessions.

You resemble the Nestorians, in couering your selues Theodoret. with a cloake and colour of the right faith.

You resemble the Nouatians in intituling your con­gregations by the name of the Catholike Church: Cyprian. [...] ▪ 73▪ [...] ▪ Iubanum Nouatianus enim (as saith Cyprian) simiarum more, quae cum homines non sint, homines tamen imitantur, vult eccle­sia catholicae authoritatem sibi et veritatem vendicare, quan­do ipse in ecclesia non sit, imo adhuc in super contra ecclesi­am rebellis et hostis extiterit: That is, For the Novati­an Hereticke, after the manner of apes, which being not men, yet do counterfaite men, and do couet to seeme men, will chalenge to himselfe the authority of the Catholike Church, and the truth; whereas hee himselfe is not in the Church, but contrariwise a re­bell against the Church.

You resemble the August, de hae­res, cap, 5. Nicolaites, in holding it to bee lawfull to commit adulterie, Et habere faeminam semel in mense ad expurgandos renes: si non caste, tamen caute.

Wherein do we come neare the Nazarites?

The August, de hae­res, cap, 9, Nazarites mingled Iewish ceremonies with [Page 65] Christian religion: so do you as appeareth by sundrie particulars.

To insist in a few of thē, you Vide missale Rom, cōsecrate euery yeare, a paschal Lambe after the fashiō of the Iewes, as is apparēt in the end of your According to the vse of Sarū ▪ Masse, where there is an­nexed the forme of consecating the Paschall Lambe, with this prayer: Vouchsafe to sanctifie this Pascall Lambe, that as many of thy people as doe eate thereof, may be replenished with all heauenly benediction▪ &c. And I haue been crediblie informed, that there were certain Monks neere our Vniuersitie of At Barnewell Abbey by Cambridge▪ Cābridg, that did vse once a yeare to rost a Lambe whole, and so to eate it with hearbes.

2 You borrow your Iubily from the Iewes, as both Extra [...] ▪ com­mū. lib, 5, tit, 9. Clement, 6. Clement the 6▪ acknowledgeth in his Bull, & others of your fatte Bulls of Basan.

3 Your Decret. part 3 distinct▪ 4▪ c, 127 sprinckeling of holy water, your Distinct, 4, cap, 11. hallo­wing of Churches, your Decret▪ Gre­gor, lib, 1, tit, 15 cap, 1, glosse. annointing of men and women, and many other Galat, 4, 9 impudent and begger­ly rudiments, are begged of the Iewes.

The [...]piphan▪ de haeres, Nazar. Nazarites also bragged of their reuelations and miracles: so do Bellarm▪ de notis Ecceles. lib. 4, cap, 3, et Cunerus in lib▪ de notis eccles. you.

wherein do we ioyne with the Heretickes called Osseni?

The Epiphan, hae­res. 19. ante Christum. Osseni affirmed, that prayer should not be vsed in a knowne language: so doe you affirme, that the seruice of the Chuch, should not be celebrated, in the vulgar tongue, but in the Latin onely.

And this tongu [...] your setter forth of the Complu­tense edition, doth so much exalt, as that hee is not [Page 66] ashamed blasphemously to In Praefat. write, that he hath pla­ced the Latin text betweene the Hebrew and and Greeke, as CHRIST betweene two theeues▪

Wherein doe we ioyne with the Priscillians?

The Priscillians separated Viros a nolen­tibus faeminis, et faeminas a noletibus viris▪ August▪ de hae­es, cap▪ 70. husbandes from their wiues, and wiues from their husbands: so doe you separate maried folkes, and place them in monasti­call places. Yea, one of your chiefe Bella [...]m▪ de matrim, cap, 21 Propos. 1▪ writers setteth down this propositiō: That a man or wife before mariage consummate, may enter into a Monasterie, albeit the other partie be most vnwilling.

2 The Nihil scriptu­rarum canoni­carū repudiant, simul cum Apochryphys legē ­tes omnia, et in authoritate su­mentes, &c. Aug. de haeres▪ cap▪ 70. Priscillians boasted that the sacred scrip­tures were on their side, so do you. [...] in his Quaitron of Reasons▪ p▪ 39 We doe not teach (saith one of your Doctors) any doctrine, but such as is deriued out of the holy Bible.

3 The Sed in suos sensus vertentes, quicquid in sactis libris est, quod corum e­ve [...]tat errorem▪ Aug. in loco supra c [...]tato. Priscillians wrested the scriptures from their true sence and meaning, and gaue vnto them such expositions, as serued for the confirmation of their errours: so do you wring the text till you make it bleed, and so presse the two dugges of the scrip­tures, the olde and newe testament, that (to vse the words of an ancient Volusia▪ epist. i▪ ad Nichol▪ 1, Scriptutarum mammillas dū durius presse­runt, sangu [...]m pro lacto bibe­runt. writer) insteed of milke you drinke nothing but blood.

4 August▪ Ibid. The Priscillians made the bookes Apocry­phall of equall authoritie with the Canonicall: so do Concil, Tri­dent▪ [...]ss. 4 you.

[Page 67]5 The Aug, de hae­res cap▪ 70 Priscillians made no account to forsweare themselues, so that thereby they might cloake their filthinesse and villanies: no more do you, as appea­reth by these words of your Rhemists Remist▪ in Act, 23 If thou be put to an oath, to accuse Catholikes for seruing God, or to vt­ter any thing to Gods The Papists account al the Magistrates in this Realm, for Gods enemies. enemies, thou cughtest first to re­fuse such vnlawfull oathes. But if thou haue not constan­cie and courage so to doe: yet know thou, that such oathes binde not in conscience, and in the law of God. Yea, Tollet, lib. 4, Instit. Sacerd▪ cap, 21. et 22 cum index (saith one of your Romish Cardinals) non iuridi­ce petit iuramentum, vel contra iustitiam, licet vti aequive. catione secundum mentem suam contra mentem iudicis, vt­puta▪ quaerenti fecistene illua? responde at non feci▪ intelligen­do intra se non hoc tempore, aut vt uarrem tibi, aut aliquid fimile: That is, when a iudge demandeth an oath vn­iustly, then may the examinate vse an aequiuocation according to his owne minde, contrarie to the Iud­ges minde: as for example, being thus demanded; didst thou that fact? Hee may answeare; I did it not. Vnderstanding secretly in his minde: not at this time, or to tell it to thee, or some such like shift.

Loe here, your Rhemish and Romish doctours, (to vse Saint Austens wordes) Aug. de hae­res▪ cap. de Pri­scillians. Propter occultandas contaminationes et turpitudines suas, habent in suis dog mati bus & haecverka:

And answeareable to this their doctrine, is the practise of your Seminarie Priests: for they when they are brought before a Iudge, or Iustice, do (I war­rant you▪ commonly answeare by the aforesaide ae­quivocation. And it is indeede noe maruell: for one of your Saints did the same, as witnesleth Nauarrus in these wordes Navar. Tom▪ 5, cap. [...]2▪ Sanctus Franciscus rogatus qua perrexisset quidam homicida, qui iuxta [Page 68] cum transier at; manus per manicas immitt ens, respondit non transijsse illac; intelligens, non transijsse per illas manicas: Saint Francis, being asked which way a certaine mur therer did runne, which had passed by him, putting his hands into his sleeues, aunswered that hee went not that way; meaning that hee went not through his sleuees.

And the like answere (I feare) will you, and many of your fellowe Recusants make, if you bee deman­ded, which way any of the late traytors went, that are not yet apprehended. But let vs come to the Pepu­zians.

Wherein do weresemble them.

The August, de haetel, cap▪ 27. Pepuzians held it lawful, for women to en­ter into the ministery, & to administer the sacramēts: the same power giue Bella [...]m, de Ba [...]t [...]s [...] sin cap. 7. you, not onely to lay-men and women, but to Pagans, that are not baptized them­selues.

2 The August de [...] cap▪ 27 Pepuzians honoured their Towne Pepu­za, and called it Hierusalem: so doe you honour the Citie of Rome, and callit the holy Citie, and the seate of the Popes holinesse. But you are greatly de­ceiued: for as Ierusalem was first an Mat. 27. 53 holy Citie, and afterwards became a a killer of the Prophets, and Math. 23. 37 stoner of them that were sent to her: so Rome, albeit it was once a Rom▪ 1. [...] faithfull Citie; yet is shee now Reu [...]l, 1. 6, drun­kē with the blood of Saints, & with the blood of the Martys of Iesus. Yea she is become such a sinke & sewer of all wickednesse, as that your [...]wne Friers [...]rie out: Mantua [...]us in [...]log, [...]. Heu, Romae nunc sola pecunia regnat; exilium [Page 69] virtus patitur: Idem fastor▪ lib▪ 2. de Ca [...]nis­priuij cōsu [...]tud. Vrbs est iam tota Lupanar: that is, Alas at Rome now nothing but money doth raigne: ver­tue is quite banished: the whole Citie is become a Stewes.

3. The Aug. de haeres cap▪ 27. Pepuzians bragged, that in the said Pe­puza, there once appeared Christ in the forme of a woman: so may you bragge, that in the saide Citie of Rome, there once appeared Christ (for sog you call the Pope) in the shape of a woman: for there was once a woman Pope, as sundry Platina in Io­han 8, [...]acob Bergom. lib, de clatis muheri­bu [...]. Sabellicus Ennead 9. li [...], 1 Leomcus Chal co [...]dyl h [...], 6, Volaterā, lib, 22 Rauisius [...] [...]x­ [...]ot in off [...]cina, [...] faeminae [...] vi [...]ilē [...] Mantu [...] lib, 3. [...]ob [...]tus [...]a [...] ­ [...]es [...] Roman [...]um Pontif: Rodrigo Sanches in don Alonso 3, Pero Mexia [...] Silua vat [...]um [...]ect, Iohannes de Pineda part 3, lib, 1 [...]. cap 23. Iohannes de▪ Parisijs lib. [...] potesta [...]e Regia et Papali. Balam Monachus in lib. contra pri natum Pap [...]. Anton [...]nus [...] [...]. [...] 6. Alonso, Venero in Enchyrid, et Theodericus Nie [...]s. lib▪ writers testifie, who in a most solemne procession, as shee went with ac­customed pompe to visite Saint Iohn de Laterane, was openly deliuered of child betweene the Church of Saint Clement, and the Theater which is now cal­led Coliseo, to the wonderfull amazement of those that were present.

And to preuent the like mishap euer after, there was immediatly prouided Sabellicus [...] 9. lib, 3. Marmorea sella circum medium inanis: qua novus Pontifex continuo ab eius crea­tione residet, vt sedentis genitalia ab vltimo diacono attrec­tentur, a chaire of

What neede you English this? I pray you leaue this matter and come to some other par­ticular.

It is no maruell that you are loth to heare any more of this matter: for it is a great blot to your suc­cess [...]on, [Page 70] that a whore sate sometimes in Saint Pe­ters chaire. But proceede to the Pelagians.

Wherein doe wee agree with them?

The Concil▪ mile­vitan c. 1 Concil Aphry­can, c, 76 [...]t Aug. de haeres▪ cap, 88. August, Sten­chus in Annot. in Gen. a. et Bel Pelagians held, that Adam, if he had not sinned, should haue died, and that he died not by rea­son of his transgression, but by the condition of nature: so some of arm. de gratia primi hominis cap. 9. your Doctors holde that Adams bodie was by nature created mortall, and that sinne was not the cause of the mortalitie thereof.

2 The Aug, de hae­res, cap, 88▪ et Concil▪ milevit▪ c. 2, et Concil. Aphrycan, c. 77 ^u Pighius in lib. de cētrouers▪ in controuers, de peccato origi. et Bellarm▪ de amissione gra­tiae cap. 15. Pelagians held, that Children are concei­ued and borne without originall sinne: so doe ⁿ you hold, that the Virgin Marie was conceiued▪ without originall sinne,

3 The Aug. contra▪ Iulian. lib, 6. c. 6 Pelagians taught that concupiscence is sanctified by baptisme; and that it being euill before baptisme, doth afterwardes beginne not to bee euill: so do you teach, that concupiscence in the regene­rate is Concil. [...]ri­dent▪ [...]est, 5, [...]. 5 Censur. Colon pag, 46, et 54, et Catechi [...] ▪ Rom. in praecept. 9 no sinne, but indeede Franciscanus quidam colo­niens, apud M [...] ­lan. part, 4. in disput. theol. a good thing: not consi­dering that of Saint Austen: Aug, contra Iulian. lib. 5, c, 3 concupiscentia [...]arnis, aduersus quam bonus concupiscit spiritus, et peccatum est, et poena peccati, et causa peccati. The concupiscence o [...] the flesh, against which, the good spirit lusteth, is both sinne, and the punishment of sinne, and the cause of sinne.

[Page 71]4 The Pelagians sayde, that the Gentils might by Philosophy knowe God, and bee saued; so doe Catharinus in Comment in, 1 Tim, 4. et An­dradius lib. 3, Orthodox, Ex­plicat. you.

5 The August, cōtra▪ Iulian lib, 4. c, 3▪ Pelagians would not subscribe to this doctrine of the ancient Concil. Arau­sicā ▪ cā, 22, et [...]0 Cyprian, lib, 2 epist, 2 Hie [...]ō, in Gal. 3 Greg, lib, 2, moral, cap, 15 August de nup­tijs et concupis. lib. 1, cap, 3 fathers, viz: that all the workes of vnbeleeuers are sinnes. Noe more will you; for it is your resolute sentence, Vide Alex. de Hales part, 3, quest. 66, Thō, Aquin▪ in 1, Se­cund, quaest. 109 Bonauent. in 2. Sent. distinct. 2 [...]. Bellarm▪ de grat. et libero. Arb. lib. 5 cap 4, [...], et 9 Gabriel Biel. 3, Sentent-dist. 27, et Ruard Tapper de grat. et libero, Arb. pag. 291. that a man pressed with no temptation, may without faith, by the speciall helpe of God, and without it, by his owne strength so doe that which is morally good, that noe sinne at all bee committed there­in.

6 The Pelagians, define that onely to bee sinne, Quod libera voluntate, et a sciente committitur. which is done voluntarily, and vppon knowledge: so doe some of your Popish Andradius lib, 3, Orthodox. Explicat▪ doc­tors.

7 The August, lib, 1, de grat▪ cap, 18▪ Pelagians held, that a man is indued with freewill, before hee hath receiued the grace of God: so doe you all ioyntly.

8 The Pelagians taught, that mans freewill Aliquantum ad non pecca [...]d [...]m valet. some­what auaileth to cause him not to sinne: for which cause Saint Austen speaketh thus of Pelagius the Arch-hereticke: Augustine epist. 106. Sometimes he poysed the power of the will with such equal waights in euen balance, that hee might determine howe it auailed somewhat to cause vs not to sinne: which if it bee so, there is noe place reserued for the helpe of grace, without which, we see freewill hath no force at all, in causing vs not to sinne.

[Page 72]To this haerisie of Pelagius subscribeth ^d Tapper,Ruard, Tapper de libero Atb. p. 294, et 288 and the whole C [...]il, [...]rid [...]t. Sest▪ 6, can, 7. Counsell of Trent.

8 Yea some of the Pelagians held, that a man byf August, de hae­res, c. 88, et In­nocent epist, 93 apud. August. the strength of his owne free-will, may keepe all the commandementes of God: so doe some of your Gab [...]ell. Biel 3. Sent, dist, 27 et Ruard, Iap. de libero, Arb. p 291. Doctors.

9 The Pelagians ascribed more to mans free­will, then they did to Gods grace: so do you, when you say Gratiae auxi­lia, quod effiacia sint, habent de­pendenter ab ar bit [...]j libertate, Molina de grat. et libero, Arb quaest, 14, art, 1. disput, 12. Thom. Aquin. contra, Gent, lib, 3, ^c [...]59. et Greg, deval. that the efficacie of Gods grace doth depend vpon the cooperation of mans will.

10 The August. de hae­res, cap, 8. Pelagians affirmed, that grace is giuen to the merite of our workes: so say Gabriel Biel. lib, 2, dist, 27. et Andrad lib, 6. page 507. you that to the merite of our works, is giuen both gratia de congrue, et condigno.

11 It was the heresie of August, de hae­res, cap, 88 Pelagians to teach; that grace is▪ not only obtained by good workes, but also by them kept and augmented: with this iumpeth the determination of the Councell of Trent, when it saith, Si quis dixes it institiam accept Concil, Tri­dēt, sess, 6, cā. 24 non conseruari, at­que etiam non augericoram deo per bona opera: sed opera ipsa fructus solummodo et signum esse instificationis adep­tae, non etiamipsius augendae causam, anathema sit.

12 The Aug, de bono Perseuerant, lib 2, c, 5, et de, hae­res. cap. 88. Pelagians taught, that it is not impossi­ble for a iust man, to be quite without sinne in this life. And you are not farre from this heresie, when you say, Concil, Tri­dent, sess, 5, ^c 18 Sot in assert. Cathol. de lege. Ruud. T [...]p. p. 189, et Bella [...]m lib. 4, de Iusti­si [...]at. cap. That a man is able in this life to per­forme the law of God perfectly. But we may say to you as Orosius did to that hereticke Pelagius: * Thou say est, that it is not impossible that a man should bee without sinne. I repeate it againe and of­ten times, the man which can doe this, is Christ the Sonne of God. Either take that name vnto thee, or lay aside thy boldnesse, God hath giuen that but to one, and that is hee which is chiefe and first borne a­mong many brethren.

[Page 73]13 The Pelagians when the ancient fathers told them, that no man is perfect and voide of sinne, an­sweared thus; Aiunt ad cō ­perationem d [...] nul um esse per­contra, Pelag. fectum Hieron ad Ctesiphont. no man is perfect in such a degree of perfection, as God is perfect. So when we tell you, that our righteousnesse in this life is imperfect, and such as (to vse Saint Austens wordes) Iustitua in hao vita tanta est vt, potius constet remissione pec­catorum, quam persectione vir­tutum. Aug, de, Civita te dei li. 19 c, 26 rather consi­steth in the remission of our sinnes, than in the perfection of our vertues: your a unsweare is this: Ruard Tapper pag, 189 Quamvis imper fect a sit nostra iustitia, eius comparatione quam in coelis habebimus, perfecta tamen est habito nostrae imbecillitatis spectu: although our righteousnesse be imperfect, in comparison of that which wee shall haue in heauen; yet it is perfect in respect of our weakenesse.

14 The Pelagians interpreted (as Saint Hieron, in Ies▪ cap, 13 Hie­rome saith) these sentences of scripture; our iustice is lik a cloth, of a menstrous woman, and no man is good, noe not one, in this sort of as if the holy Ghost had meant, that man in comparison of God is not iust, or good: And the selfe same sleight and euasion vse Iodocus Tile­stanus in lib cō ­tra confess, An­tuerp ens. cap, 6 de iustifiat. you.

15 The Pelagians, to prooue the strength of free will, and the perfect fulfilling and accomphshing of the Lawe, vsually obiected on this wise. God hath giue a sundrie commandements to man, since his fal, some pertaining to the Lawe, some to the Gospell, as commandements to turne vnto God, to beleeue, to repent. And all commaundementes are giuen in vaine, vnlesse there be freedome of will, to do them, or not to do them. Aug, de grat, et lib. arb, c. 4 Magnum [...] liquid Palagiant (saith Saint Austen) se scire patant, quando dicunt, non iube­ret dens quod sciret ab homine non posse fierr, the Pelagi­ans thinke themselues cunning men, when they say, God would not commande that thing, which hee [Page 74] knoweth a man is not able to do. The selfe same ob­iection vseth Cardinall Bellarm, lib, 5 de grat. cap, 18 Bellarmine: not considering that these commandements, set not downe what wee can do, but what we should doe, not our abilitie but our office and dutie August, de grat. lib, 5, ca, 4 Ideo iubet (saith Saint Au­sten) aliqua, quae non possumus, vt nouerimus, quid ab ipso petere debeamus: That is, God doth therefore com­mand vs to do some things that wee are not able to do that we may vnderstand, what we ought to craue of him.

Saint Ambrose also is of the same mind with Saint Augustine, as appeareth by these his wordes: * Non ob aliud vnquam datur praeceptum, nisi vt quaeratur praecipi­entis Ambros, epist [...]4 auxilium: the precept is giuen for no other cause, but that the helpe of the precept giuer may bee sought.

16 Bellarm. lib, 5 de grat, c, 15 You obiect with the Aug, de natur. grat: cap, 67 Pelagians, that if there were not in man freewill, there should bee no place left for reward or punishment: for if a man (say both they and you) doe euill of necessitie, hee deserueth no punishment, and if hee doe well vnwil­lingly,a Aug: ibid hee is worthie of no rewarde. We answeare with Saint Austen: In recte f [...]ciendo ideo nullum est vin culum necessitatis, quia libert as est charitatis, quae diffusa est in cordibus nostres per spiritum sanctum: in well do­ing there is noe bond of necessitie, because freedome or libertie commeth of loue, which is shed abroade in our hearts by the holy Ghost.

17 Bellarm, de grat, lib, 5, c, 14 You obiect also with the Peccata caueri non possunt, peccata nō funt. Pelagians, that sinne is either necessarie or voluntarie: if necessarie, it cannot be auoided, and so consequently is noe sinne: if voluntarie it may bee auoided: therefore man hath free-will, and may auoide sinne. Wee aunswere with Saint Austen: Aug, contra Caelestinum de perfect, iustit. Arbitrij libertas se­mel data est homini, sed quiapeccauit voluntas, sequuta est [Page 75] peccantem, peccatum habendi necessitas: Man had once free will giuen him, but because he sinned willingly, there followed as a reward of his sinne, a necessitie of sinning.

Wherein doe wee agree with the hereticke Prodicus?

Prodicus said, that Licet palam et aperte forn? cari, prodicus apud Clement. in Stromat, li. 3 it was lawefull to commit o­pen fornication: so say some of you. Iacobus de Valētia in ps, 18 Tam Iudaei, quam Saraceni & mali Christiani (confesseth one of your own side) vt detestabilem vitam suam excusent, et defendant, asserunt fornicationem simplicem esse licitam: as well Iewes as Saracens, as also bad christians, to the intent to excuse and defend their wicked life, say that single fornication may bee lawefully vsed. And E­rasmus speaking of some of the best of your Romane cleargie, saith thus. Erasmus in Enchirid. mil: Christiani c. 14 bona pars eorum, quas vulgus integros, et incorruptos appellat, simplicem fornicationem, & moderatum voluptatis vsum vt leue commissum, neuti­quam refugiunt: a great many of them, whome the common sort taketh for good and godly men, not a whitte abhorre single fornication, and a sober vse of pleasure, reckening it to be but a petie fault. Yea this vile opinion was s [...] eagerlie maintained by some of your side, as that the bishops assembled in the late Councel of Basill were constrained to decreeh Concil, Basili▪ Sess, 20. that ^h fornication should be sinne. Antoninus also, the Archbishoppe Florence, was faine to stand vppe [Page 76] against them saying Antoninus in Sum. part, 4, tit. 22, cap, 2, S, 3 confutatur error dicentium sim­plicem fornicationem non essepeccatum, hereby is con­futed the errour of them that say, that single fornica­tion is no sinne.

Wherein do wee resemble the Scribes and Phari­sees.

The Pharisees separated themselues from the common sort of men; as more holy then they, and contemned the poore Publicans as sinners: and ther­fore Fosterus in dictionar, heb­raic. some learned men thinke, that they bee called Pharisees, quasi segregati, quod vitae sanctimonia a vulgi moribus separati essent non aliter atque Monachi quos Carthusianos vocant, as separated and deuided from the common sort in holinesse of life, much like vnto your Monkes, which bee called Carthu­sians.

2 The Scribes and Pharisees, Mat, 23, 23 tythed Mint, and Annise and cummin, and left the waightier things of the law, as iudgement, and mercy, and fidelitie: so doe you; for you are so precise, as that you will not eate an egge in Lent; and yet wil you not stick to lay your hands on the Lords annointed, and to murther the No­bles.

3 The Pharises were Iosephus lib. Antiquit, tom▪ a, lib, 17, cap, 3 astutum hominum genis, arrogans, & interdum regibus quoque infestum,) a subtile kinde of men, arrogant, and sometimes enemies to kings & rulers: so are you as appeareth by your late [Page 77] trayterous and vnnaturall stratagems.

4 The Scribes and Pharisees Mat, 23. 15 compassed sea and Land to make one of their profession: so do you Ie­suites and Semina [...]ie priests.

5 The Scribes and Pharises despised Christ and his disciples, and called them Nazarens, in dispite of his Countrie, and hence came this scornefull questi­ono Iohn t. 4 [...] vsed by Nathaniell: o can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? After the same manner doe you scoffe at our Religion, and say with Harding, that it beganne not at IERVSALEM, but at Wittem­berge.p Harding in his confutation of the APol.

6 The Scribes and Pharises boasted much of their succession. and saide. Wee bee Iohn, 8, 33 Abrahams seede: Wee be Iohn, 9, 28, 29 Moses disciples: Wee knowe that God spake with Moses: but this man wee know not from whence hee is, or what hee can shewe for his succession.

And when Christ beganne to confute their er­rours, they saide vnto him: Luk, 20, 2 Catena in Luk, 20 tell vs by what autho­ritie thou doest these things? or who is hee that hath giuen thee this authoritie? Which wordes of theirs Saint Cyrill frameth in this sort▪ Cypril in [...] tu ortus ex Iuda, commissosnobis fasces vsurpas: thou being of the tribe of Iudah (and therefore hauing no right by successi­on vnto the Priesthood) takest vpon thee the office that is committed vnto vs.

S. Chrisostome likewise imagineth the Pharisies to say thus: Chrysost in Mat, homil, 39 Bellarm, lib, [...] de eccles, c, [...], [...] Rhemist, in▪ Act 23, sect, [...], Tu de sacerdotali familia natus non es: Se­natus tibi hoc non concessit: Caesarnō donauit: thou art not of the house of priests: the Senate hath not graunted it thee: the Emperour hath not giuen it vnto thee.

The like boasts make [...] you of your succession. Yea, Pope Symmachius was not ashamed to [Page 78] auouch, that if the Pope want vertues, and goodnesse of his owne, the vertues that are giuen him by Peter his predecessour are sufficient. His words are these, Distinct, 40. non vos. In Papa si desint bona acquisitaper meritum, sufficiunt quae a loci praedecessore praestantur. And your glosse vpon the same saith thus; Petrus fecit Papam haeredem bonitatis sua, Peter hath made the Pope heire of his good­nesse. z Glossa. ibid.

7 The Pharises put their confidence in their workes, and thought they could merite eternall life by them: for so Saint Phil, 3. 7 Paul saith of himselfe, that be­ing a Pharisee, his workes were his gaine and aduantage, in the matter of Saluation.* Andrad. lib. 6, page 5 17 Soto in asserti­one Cathol, de bonis operibus. et Lindan. lib. 3 cap, 20,

The verie same doctrine of confidence in workes, and of the merit of Saluation therby, doe Concil. Tri­dent sess, 6, c, 32 your Po­pish Doctours teach in their bookes and Pamphlets extant to the view of the world.

8 These Pharisees Marke, 7, 8 laide the commandements of God a part, and obserued the traditions of men: so doe you.

9 The Epiphan. hae­res▪ 15, ante, Christum. Scribes were reputed heretickes, for that they brought in a sophisticall exposition of the lawe.

And for the selfe same cause, may you well be ran­ged amongst heretickes: for there was neuer any heretickes, that euer deuised more vaine and sophi­sticall expositions vpon the word of God, nor more contrary to the meaning of the holy ghost, than you haue done.

1 To insist in some particulars. To prooue, that whosoeuer accuseth the Pope shall neuer bee forgi­uen, Pope Sixtus Vide Concil. tom. 1, purgat, Sext▪ alleadged Math. 12, 32. Whoso­euer shall speake against the holy Ghost, it shall not bee for­giuen him, neither in this worlde nor in the worlde to come.

2 To proue, that the Pope is greater than the [Page 79] Emperour, Innocentius the third Decretal. lib. 1 tit. 33▪ de maior et minor obed. alleadged Gen 1. 16. God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesse light to rule the night And he interpre­ted it thus: Ibid, God created two lightes in the firmament of heauen; so in the firmament of the earth two rulers; a greater light, and a lesser light, that to the Popè and the Emperour; the one to gouerne the day, the other the night, that is, the Pope to gouerne the Cleargie, the Emperour the Laytie.

3 To proue that the Pope may set his foote in the necke of the Emperour, Pope Alexander the third Vide Na [...]cler generat, 40▪ alleadged Psalme. 91. 13. Thou shalt walke vpon the Lion and aspe: the yong Lion and the dragon shalt thou tread vnder feete.

4 To proue that the Popes power is greater then all other created power, extending it selfe vnto thinges caelestiall, terrestriall and infernall, Antoni­nus alleadgeth Psalme 8. 6. 7: Thou hast put al things vnder his feete all sheepe and oxen: yea and the beastes of the field: the foules of the aire, and the fishi Anton in: Sū. part, 3, tit, 22, c, 5, S. 4 et 5, 6. of the sea, &c. where (saith hee) By oxen are meant Iewes and Heritickes; by beasts of the field, Pagans and infidels; by sheepe, Christians both Kinges and subiects; by birdes of the aire, An­gels in Heauen; and by fishes in the sea, soules in pur­gatorie.

5 Io, Capistr. de Papa et eccles. authori. 1, 2, fol, 21. Did not the Lord (saith another of your sophi­sticall Scribes) commaund Peter, Luke 5. 4. To lanch out into the deepe, that he might signifie the height of power in Peter. Againe, why did the Lorde send Peter onely to the sea to fish with an angle or hooke, but chat he would insinuate, that hee intended to set Peter ouer the whole surging sea of the tempestuous worlde? and why did he commaund him to fish with an iron hooke, but that hee was disposed to commit vnto him the sword both of the spirituall and tempo­rall [Page 78] Empire.

6 To prove the antiquitie of the Cardinalls of Rome, Andreas Bar­bat▪ apud Polyd de Invent, lib, 4 cap, 9 Andreas Barbatius alleadged, 1. Samuell 2. 8. Domini sunt cardines terrae, the corners of the earth be the Lordes.

7 To proue that the Church of Rome hath them Anacletus e­pist. [...] preheminence ouer all other Churches, Anacletus alleageth Math. 16. 18. Vpon this rocke will I build my Church; And he expoundeth it thus: Super hanc petram, id est super ecclesiam Romanam aedificabo ecclesiam meam, vpon this rocke, that is, vppon the Church of Rome will I build my Church.

8 To proue that the Church is built vppon Saint Peter, Bellarm, de Pontif▪ Rom. lib, 1, cap. 17 Bellarmine alleadgeth the selfe same place; and expoundeth it thus: vpon this rocke, that is, vpon thee Peter will I build my Church.

But, the ancient fathers expounded this text, farre otherwise. Heare the wordes of Saint Austen: Aug. de ver­bis dom. secun­dū Mat. serm. 13 Tis es ergo (inquit) Petrus; et super hanc petram, quan confessus [...]s; super hanc petram quàm cognovisti, dicens; tu es filius dei vivi, aedificabo ecclesiam meam, id est super meip sum fi­lium dei vivi aedificabo ecclesiam meam. Super me aedificabo te, non me super te &c. Thou art Peter (saith Christ) and vpon this rocke which thou hast confessed, vpon this rocke which thou haste acknowledged by saying; thou art Christ the sonne of the liuing GOD will I build my Church; that is, vpon my selfe the sonne of of the liuing God, wil I build my Church. I will build thee vpon me, notme vpō thee: for men intending to build vpō men said, I hold of Paul, I of Apollos, I of Cephas; and others that would not be builded vpon Peter, but vpon therocke, said, I hold of Christ, for the rocke was Christ, vpon the which foundation Peter himselfe was builded, sith no man can lay any other foundation besides that which is laide, which is Christ Iesus.

[Page 81]Saint Hierom subscribeth to the same exposition. Hieron. in Math, 16, 18 By the rocke (saith hee) wee vnderstand Christ whome Peter confessed: for if wee take Peter for a stone of the foundation, all the Apostles shall bee alike, according to that which we see in the Apo­calyps.

And in the same current runneth Euseb. in ho­mil▪ in fest, Paul et [...] etri, Chrylost▪ homil, 55, in Math et in psa▪ 32, et in serm. 21, de Pentecost. Eusebius E­missenus, Ambros. in Ephes▪ c, 2▪ et in lib de Incarna­tione Dominici sacramenti, Ambrose, ^r Chrysostome, Epiphan in lib 2, contra haeres▪ Epiphanius, Origen, in Mat, 16▪ tract. 1. Origen, Beda in Iohan. cap, 21. Gregorie, Beda, Hilar▪ [...]de Tri­nitate lib, 2. [...] Hilarie, ^b Fabi­anus, and the whole streame of the ancient Fa­thers.

But to wounde you with your owne weapons Titelman a Frier agreeth with the forenamed wri­ters. His wordes are these: Fabianus e­pist. ad Zenonē Imperatorem. ^b Titelmanin Math, 16. Vpon this rocke, vp on this truth of faith which thou haste confessed, and hast vttered saying: thou art CHRIST the Sonne of the liuing GOD: and also vppon my selfe a moste sure rocke, which in thy foresayde speech thou hast confessed; I will build and founde my Church.

So doth also, Ferus an other of your writers, Ferus in Math 16. It is not (saith hee) for man that he should bee a rocke, e­uen as Iob sayth is my strength the strength of stones. Nay, on the contrarie all flesh is grasse and euery man liuing is altogether vanitie. It belongeth onely to Christ, that hee shoulde bee a rocke, &c. Againe, Ibid. when Christ sayth: I wil build my Church vpon this rocke; hee mean eth nothing else then hee will build his Church vpon a sure and vnmoveable foundation, against which all the assaults of his ene­mies can be able to do nothing.

By this it is manifest that Christ built not his church vpon Peter, as a chiefe foundation (for wee are built [Page 82] vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, Iesus Christ himselfe being the head cornerstone) or vpon any other man: for no man is so firme and con­stant, that he cannot be mooued, as we may also see in Peter; & therefore an other Rocke is to be sought for, and truely in the scriptures Christ himselfe is of­ten called a Rocke or stone, as in Isai, I will put in Sion a cornerstone, approued and chosen, whoso­euer beleeueth in him shall not be confounded. And in the Psalme, the same stone which the builders refused is beecome the heade stone in the cor­ner.

9 To proue that Saint Peter was not onely the head of the Church, but of the Apostles also, Bellarm, de Pontifice Rom. lib, 1, cap▪ 12 Bel­larmine alleadgeth Math. 16, 19. I will giue vnto thee, the keies of the kingdome of heauen, and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde vpon earth, shall be bound in heauen: and whatsoeuer thou shalt loose one earth, shall bee loosed in Hea­uen.

But this text of scripture proueth no such matter, as the ancient fathers haue well obserued. Orig▪ in Mat, 16, tract. 1. Hoc dictū, (saith Origen) tibi daho claues reg [...]i coelorū, caeteris quo­que commune est: & quae sequuntur, velut ad Petrum dicta, sunt omnibus communia: this saying, to thee will I giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen, is com­mon to the rest of the Apostles: and the words thatg Si super vnum illum Petrum tantum existi­mas aedificari­totam ecclesiā quid dicturus es de Iohanne filio [...]onitrui et a­postolorum vnoquo. &c. Orig. ibid. follow, as spoken vnto Peter, are common vnto all.

Againe, if onely vppon Peter thou thinkest the whole Church to be built, what wilt thou say of Iohn the son of thunder & of euerie of the Apostles? shall we dare to fay, that against Peter only the gats of hel shall not preuaile, & against the rest of the Apostles they shall? and not rather in them all, and euerie one of them, that to be true which is saide; the gates of hell shall not preuaile? and that also, vpon this rocke will I builde my Church? for if this speech to thee [Page 83] will I giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen, bee common to all; why then should not all that which goeth before, and followeth after, as spoken to Peter be common to them all?

Saint Cyprian is of the same iudgement with Saint Origen, as appeareth by these his wordes. Cyprian de Simplicitate Prelat. Hoc e­rant vtique et caeteri Apostoli quodfuit Petrus, pari con­sortio proediti et honoris et potestatis; sed exordium ab vni­tate proficis [...]itur, vt ecclesia vna monstretur▪ the same were the rest of the Apostles doubtlesse, that Peter was, endued with equall fellowship, both of honor & of power: but the beginning came of vnitie, that the CHVRCH might thereby bee shewed to bee one.

Hierome also holdeth that the place before allead­ged, is not sufficient to proue Saint Peter to bee the sole ministeriall foundation of the Church. His words are these: Hieron. lib 8 aduers▪ Iouinian thou wilt say, the Church is founded vp­on Peter: yet in another place, the same thing is done to all the Apostles; and they all receiued the keyes of the kingdome of heauen: et ex aequo super eos ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur, and equally vppon them all, is the strength of the Church setled.

Beda likewise is of opinion, that the power of bin­ding and loosing was giuen to the Apostles with out any perogatiue of one morethen other. I will giue you his expresse words. Bead homil. in Euang. quem me dicunt. Potestas ligands et sol­uendi, quam vis soli Petro a domino data videatur; tamen absque vlla dubitatione noscendum est, quodet caeteris A­postolis data est: the power of binding and loosing although it seeme to bee giuen of the LORD to Peter alone; yet without all doubt we must knowe, that it was also giuen to the rest of the Apo­stels.

To this doctrine also haue whole Concil. Aqui­granens. c. 9. ex Is [...]d et Synod. Colonēs. med. 96, c, 1. Councels sub­scribed, But what neede I stand in quoting of an­cient [Page 90] fathers and Councels? I wil wound you againe with your owne weapons, and make you crie out with Iulian: Theodoret, Tripart, histor▪ lib, 6▪ cap. 17 Proprijs pennis configimur &c. Behold we are wounded with our owne quilles, out of our owne bookes they take armour which in fight they vse against vs.

Heare the wordes of one of your owne Schoole Doctours: victoria de potestate ecc es 1 elect▪ 2 can, 3 et 4, page 84 Apostoli habuer unt aequalem potestatom cum Petro; quam sic intelligo, quod quilibet Apostolorum habu­it potestatem ecclesiasticam in toto orbe▪ & ad omnes actus ad quos Petrus habuit: all the Apostles had equall power with Peter; which I thus vnderstand, that euery one of the Apostles had power ecclesiasticall in the whole world, and to all those acts to which Peter had the same▪

Couarruvias, also one of your owne Canonists, commeth with this canon shot against you: Iuxta n Covar▪ tom▪ 1. part, 2, S. 9▪ pag. 242▪ col▪ 4 Catholicorum virorum authoritates, &c. According to the authoritie of Catholike writers; and the common traditiō of all men, the Apostles receiued Aequalem cū Petro potestatē ordinis et iuris­dictionis: &c: equal po­wer with Peter, both of order and iurisdiction? in so much doubtlesse, as euerie Apostle had equall pow­er with Peter, from God himselfe, and that both ouer all the Worlde: and to all actions that PETER could.

10 To proue that Peter was at Rome, your po­pish Rhemist, in 1, epist▪ Petri et Ballarm▪ de Pontif, li▪ 2, c, 2 Doctours quote, 1. Peter 5, 13. the Church that is at Babylon saluteth you; by quoting where­of they haue gained thus much, that Rome is Reuel, 17, 5 great Babylon the mother of whoredomes and abominati­ons of the earth.

11 To proue that the Pope sitting in Peters chaire canot erre in matters of faith and Doctrine, your Bellarm. lib, 4 de Pontif, cap▪ 3, et Rhemist. annot▪ in Luk, 22. sect, [...] Doctours quote, Luke, 22, 32. The Lord saide Si­mon, Simon, behold Sathan hath desired you, to win­now [Page 91] you, as wheate. But I haue prayed for thee; that thy faith faile not. In which wordes our Sauiour Christ promiseth not, that Peters iudgement should neuer erre, but that in his great and dangerous temptation, into the which our Sauiour foresaw he should fall, his faith should not vtterly faile. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not, that is Chrysost, in Iohannem ho-mil 72 Chysostome, ne in fine pereas, that thou finally perish not. And in another place; Idem in Math homil 83 non dixit quippe non neg abis, sed vt non deficiat fides tua: cura enim ipsius factum est ne omnino Pe­tri fides euanesceret: Christ did not say, thou shalt not denie me, but thy faith shall not faile; for by his care and fauour it came to passe, that Peters faith should not vtterly be extinguished.

Reuerend Beda in Lu▪ 22 Beda likewise saith, that our Sauiour prayed for Peter, not that hee should not faile, that is, that after hee was fallen by denying him, hee might rise againe by repentance to his for­mer estate.

Nowe marke I pray you, howe ridiculous this illation of Romish doctours is: I haue prayed that though thou doe thrise denie mee, and shame­fully forsweare mee; yet neuerthelesse thy faith shall not quite faile: therefore neither Peter nor the Pope canne erre in anye point of Reli­gion.

Secondly, suppose that CHRIST had prayed that PETER should neither erre in iudg­ment, nor faile in the temptation now at hand; what doth this aduantage your holie father the Pope? for if this be to be vnderstood of the Pope, then must hee also first bee sifted by Sathan as Peter was, and▪ [Page 92] denie Christ as Peter did: for if the one part must be vnderstood of the Pope, then of necessitie must the other be also: and so consequently must you needes confesse (as well you may) that the Pope is a denier of Christ, and a shamefull forswearer of him

Thirdly, this text doth indeede quite ouerthrowe your Romish Religion: for your doctours ioyntly, teach that Christs prayer is availeable for the Pope, to keepe him from errour, not in the Temple, or Pulpit or closet or any other common or priuate place; but onely in his chayre, consistorie and Coun­cell, in debating doubtfull causes of Religion: as if Christ had prayed not for the men, but for the walls, which is directly against the words of our Sauior: for he saith not, I haue prayed for thy chaire, tribunals, Courts, consistories, and Councels, that they shall not erre; but hee saith, I haue prayed for thee, noting his person, that thy faith, that is the perswasion of thine heart beleeuing in mee, shall not vtterly faile. Loe here, Christ prayed for Peters person, and not for Peters chaire.

Lastly, although Peter had great confidence in him selfe, saying: Luke. 22. 33 I am readie to goe with thee into prison and to death. Iohn, 13 37 I will lay downe my life for thy sake: and Math. 26▪ 33. though that all men should bee offended by thee, yet would I neuer bee offended. Notwithstan­ding (I say) all this Peter demed him thrise, and sware that he knew not the man.

Now as Peter trusting two much in himselfe, and esteeming more of himselfe then his fellow disciples did, chanced to fall more shamefully then all they: so your holy father the Pope, trusting to much in his owne strength▪ and esteeming more of himselfe, then all other Bishoppes doe, happeneth to oppose himselfe against Christ, and to doe farre worse then all others.

[Page 93]As Peter therefore, finding his faith to haue quai­led, acknowledged his fault, & went out at the crow­ing of the Cocke, and wept bitterly: so your pre­tended successour of Peter, finding himselfe to haue fallen away from the true God into idolatrie and a­postacie, should with Peter acknowledge his fault, and goe out of BABYLON, and weepe bit­terly,

12 To prooue that the Church cannot erre, Bellarm▪ de eccles▪ lib▪ 3. cap. 14 Bel­larmine alleadgeth 1. Tim. 3-15, That thou mayest know, how thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the house of God, which is the Church of the liuing God the piller and ground of truth. But hee is greatly deceiued herein: for that Church which the Apostle here calleth the house of God, and the piller of truth is not any visibly cōpanie but an inuisible, that is, the elect onely in a visible congregation: for they alone are that house wherein God dwelleth; as it may firmely be proued by these wordes of the Apostle: Heb. 3, 6▪ Christ as the sonne, is ouer his owne house. But what house is it? is it a visible Church? Ibid. No; wee are the house, if wee hold fast the confidence and reioy­cing of the hope vnto the ende.

Secondly the Church is called a piller metaphori­cally; because it is like vnto a pillar. For as a piller doth support and vnderprop [...]e a building and ma­keth it more stable, firme and stronge: so the Church doth sustaine and support the truth: for the truth is no where preserued but in the Church, neither is there any place or seat in which it resteth, saue only among the godly in the Church.

Nowe then if your will reason thus: Truth is noe where to bee founde but in the Church. therefore whatsoeuer the Church decreeth is truth, you doe in reasoning committ a fallacie: for the Church may [Page 94] preserue truth, and yet bee not altogether free from errour.

3, The Argument which Bellarmine draweth, from this text of scripture followeth not: for Iames, Peter, & Iohn; Galat, 2, 9 were accounted, [...], to be Pillers; and yet these Pillars erred both in matters of Doctrine, and manners They erred in manners, when they Mat, 16, 56 forsooke Christ, and fled; and they erred in doctrine, when they Iohn, 20, 9 knew not the Scriptures, that Christ must arise againe from the dead; and when they dreamed of the restoring of an earthly kingdome. h Act, 1, 6

To conclude this particular, the Apostle calleth the Church [...], the Pillar of truth, & not [...], the foundation of the truth, and Saint Chrysostome, least any should take occa­sioni Chrysost, in 1 Tim, 3, 15 from the Apostles wordes, to ascribe ouermuch (as you doe) to the Church, conuerteth the propositi­on, and saith, [...]: truth is the pillar and the establishment of the Church.

13 To proue that the Church cannot erre, your Rhe mens, an­not. 1, Tim, 3, 15 Doctors also alleadge, Math, 28, 20, Loe, I am with you alway vntill the ende of the World: which promise is not (as Bellarm, de ec­cles, lib, 3, c, 14 Bellarmine would haue it) made to any vi­sible Church or congregation, but vnto the godly and elect onely, as the learned fathers expound it. To begin with saint Chrysostome▪ Chrysost, in Mat, cap, vlt. Noncumillis (saith hee) solum modo futurum esse dixit, sed cum omnibus qui post eos credituri fuerant, neque enim Apostolivsque ad con­summationem seculi victurierant. Sedtanquam vni corpo­ri, loquitur cunctis fidelibus: he saith not, that he will be with them onely, but with all that afterwards should beleeue. Neither were the Apostles to liue vntill the ende of the world. But as vnto on bodie, he speaketh vnto all the faithfull.

Saint Hierome subscribeth to the same exposition [Page 95] Hieron, in Mat. cap, vlt. Ostendit Christus se nunquam a credentibus recessurum esse. Christ here sheweth, that he will neuer goe from beleeuers.

So doth, also Rabanus Maurus an ancient Diuine; Raban in Comment. in hurclocum. Ex hoc intelligitur quodvsque ad finem seculi non sunt defuturi in mundo; quidiuina mansione & inhabitatione sunt digni: by this is meant, that vntill the ende of the world there shal not be wanting in the world such, as are worthie an heauenly mansion & dwelling place,

To adioyne one answere more, this text which your popish Seducers alleadge, doth rather make a­gainst thē, then for them: for Christ (according to his promise) is with euery one of his elect, & not with sōe one particular man onely, as they would haue the place to sound. And (to vse saint Origens wordes) Origē in Rō. 15 Nulli Apostolorum dictum est singulariter & nulli sideli­um, ero terum; sed multitudini ecclesiarum pluraliter, ero nobiscum. It is spoken to none of the Apostles, & to none of the faithfull singularlie, I will bee with thee; but to the multitude of Churches, plurally, I will bee with you. Yea, some of your Illa est vera et sine cō [...]adicti­tione probatio, quae etiam ab aduersarijs ipsis singula testifica tionis prosert. Iren. lib, 4 owne writers acknow­ledge, that Christ saide not, I will be with thee Peter, and with thy successour onely; but Dyonis Car­thusianus in hunc. locum. ero vobiscum hoc est, cum vobis et successoribus vestris, cunctisque fidelibus: I will be with you, that is with you and your succes­sours, and with all the faithfull. And the saide Dyo­nisius gathereth not hence, as your later writers doe, that the visible Church cannot possibly erre. Dyonis. ibid, sed quod nunquam deficiet fides in toto, sed vsque in finem se­culiper seuer abit in aliquibus christiana religio; but that faith, shall neuer fall away totally, but that Christian religion shal abide in some vntil the end of the world 14 To proue that not onely the predestinate, but the reprobates also may belong vnto the true church & be members thereof Bellarm, de eccles, lib, 3▪ c, 7 Bellermine quoteth Math. 3 12, where the Church is compared to a Barne floore. [Page 96] wherein is both chaffe and wheate; and Math. 13. 47, where it is compared to a draw net cast into the sea, that gathereth of all kinds of fish: and 2. Tim. 2. 20. where it is compared to an house, wherin there be not onely vessels of gold and of siluer, but also of wood and of earth, and some for honour, and some vnto dishonour.

All which places must bee vnderstood of the visi­ble Chuch, whereof the reprobates may be members for a time; and not of the inuisible, whereof none can be members, but those onely, that are truely ingrafted into the body of Christ Iesus; for (to produce your own decrees against you) Decr part. 2 cons 24. quaest. 3. cap. 8 ad ecclesiā non pertinent illi, qui in eius vnitate corporaliter misti per pessimam vitam se­parantur, they belong not to the Church which be­ing corporally mixed in the societie thereof, are separated by a most lewd life.

To be short, the places alleadged by Bellarmine, do proue, that wicked men may bee in the Church, but not of the Church. This my distinction is groun­den vppon the verie wordes of Saint Iohn; 1 Iohn. 2. 19. they went out from vs, but they [...] not of vs: for if they had beene of vs, they would haue continued with vs. But this commeth of passe, that it might ap­peare, that they are not all of vs.

15 To prooue that the Catholike Church is, and hath beene alwayes visible, Bellarm. de ec­cles. lib. 3, ca. 12 Bellarmine heapeth vp these places of Scriptures: Math, 18, 17: tell it vnto the Church. Act, 15. 4. When they were come to Ierusalem, they were receiued of the Church. Phil. 3. 6, concerning zeale, I persecuted the Church.

For an answere hereunto, I will lay downe the sun­drie significations of the worde (ecclesia Church) in the sacred Scriptures.

This word (not to speake of it as it is Psal, 26, 5 Act. 19 32, 40. vsed in ma­lampartem, viz. For a companie of wicked people) is taken six waies.

[Page 97]1 For all the elect that haue beene in the worlde, are, or shall bee. and in this sence it is vsed in the Symbole of the Apostles: I beleeue the Catholike Church: and Math, 16, 18. Vppon this rocke will I build my Church. Ephes. 1, 22, God hath appointed Christ ouer all things to bee the head to the Church, and Chap, 5, 32, I speake concerning Christ and concerning his Church.

2 For that part of the elect, which triumpheth with Christ in heauen, and is commonly called the try um­phant Church

This is that Church which S. Paul calleth Ephes 5. 27 a glorious Church not hauing spot &c., or any such thing: and that Reuel. 7. 9. great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds and people and tongues which stood before the throne, & before the Lambe clothed with long white robes, and palmes in their hands, in token of victorie:

3 For that part of the elect, which warreth vppon earth and is called the militant Church; And of this the Apostle speaketh Acts, 5, 11, great feare came on all the Church, and 1, Tim, 3, 15, the house of God, which is the Church of the liuing God:

4 For particular congregatiōs cōfessing Christs true Religion, as Reuel, 2, 1, vnto the Church of the Ephesians, &c.

5 For the gouernours of the Church, as Math. 18, 17 tell it to the Church, that is, to the gouernours of the Church.

6 For the people or flocke committed to euerie Pastours charge, as Act. 20. 28, take heede vnto your selues, and to all the flocke, whereof the holy Ghost hath made you ouerseers to feede the Church of God &c, in which words poimnion and ecclesia doe signifie one, and the same thing.

[Page 98]Now to apply this distinction; the places alleaged by Bellarmine, doe proue that particular Churches and the members thereof, are visible; but they proue not, that the Catholicke and vniversall Church is visible. Now we grant▪ that particular congregatiōs are visible: but wee denie with the auncient Clemens, A­lexand, lib. 7 Strom. Ambros in Epes, c, 3, et Aug. in psa, 90 concione, 2 fa­thers, that the Catholike Church is visible: and dooe hold that it cannot be espied but by the eyes of faith. Therefore your Cardinall disputeth, not ad idem,

16. To proue that it is impossible that the visible Church should vtterly faile vpon the earth, and fall from God, Bellarm, de eccles, li, 3, c, 13 Bellarmine quoteth Math. 6. 18. The gates of hell shall not peruaile against it. In which place our Sauiour speaketh of the vniuersall inuisible Church, and not of a particular visible Church, as Bellarmine expounds it; for had he spoken of a vi­sible Church, he would haue saide aedificabo ecclesias meas, I will build my Churches: because many particu­lar visible Churches were then about to bee in the world.

But he saith, aedifica [...]o ecclesiam meam, I will build my Church; noting one Church, not many, euen as it is al­so in the Creed: I beleeue the Church; not this or that Church, but the Catholike Church, which is an in­visible companie of the faithfull, elected and chosen to eternall life, and not a visible companie of men, professing the same faith and religion, and acknow­ledging the Bishop of Rome to bee their chiefe pastour, as your Popish Lindan. lib, 4 cap, 84. Canisi­us de praecept. eccles. ar [...], 9, et Bellarm, de ec­cles, lib. 3. cap. 2 Doctours define it. A­gaine, had Christ here meant any other Church but the Church vniuersall, then had he not beene as good as his word: for the gates of hell haue pre­vailed against the foure great Patriarchall Seas of the Churches, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and [Page 99] Ephesus, and against all other particular Churches that flourished in the former a [...]es: It remaineth therefore that we expound this place, not with Bel­larmine of a particular visible Church, but of the Catholike vniuersal Church, against which the gates of hell Valitura & indi­cat. praevalita­ras negat. shal be of strength, but they shall not pruaile by strength.

17 To proue that generall Counsels ought onely to be called and appointed by the Popes authoritie, Bellarm. de Concil lib. 1, cap▪ 12 Bellarmine alleadgeth Math. 18. 20. Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the middes of them. Loe heare your learnedst writer saith, that to assēble in the name of Christ, is to assēble in the name of the Pope. A goodly expositiō.

18 To proue that all men are bound of necessitie to receiue the decrees of Counsels, without any triall or examination of them, Bellarm. de Concil. lib. 1. cap. [...]8. Bellarmine quoteth▪ Deut 17. 12▪ That man that will doe presumptuovsly, not hearkening vnto the Priest (that standeth before the Lord thy God, to minister there) that man shall die. But hee quoteth not the wordes immediatly going before; Verse [...] according to the law, which they shall reach thee, and according to the iudgemēt which they shal tell thee, shalt thou doe. See here, there is no absolute iudiciall power giuen to the Priest, but according to the law. Thus doth your Cardinall dispute with vs, as the Matth. 4. 6▪ Deuill did with Christ: quoting onely that which serueth for his turne, and leauing out that which ma­keth against him.

19 To proue that the goods of the Clergy both secu­lar & ecclesiasticall, ought to be exempted from paying tribute to Princes, Bellarm, de Clericis. ca. 2 [...] ▪ Bellarmine quoteth, Ge▪ 47. 22 onely the land of the Priests bought hee not: for the Priestes had an ordinary of Pharaoh, and they did eate their ordinarie, which Pharaoh gaue them: wherfore they sould not their gound: and verse 27. Ioseph made it a law ouer the Land of Aegipt vnto this day, [Page 100] that Pharaoh should haue he fift part; except the land of the Priestes onely, which was not Pha­raohs.

But Bellarmine considereth not, that the worde Cohen here vsed, signifieth as wel a Prince as a priest; To quote some places for the verifying hereof, In the 41. of Genesis, verse 45. Ioseph is saide to marrie Ase­nath the daughter of Potipherah Cohen, that is prince not Priest of On: for I doe nor thinke, that Ioseph would marrie the daughter of an idolatrous Priest.

Likewise in the 2. of Samuel, chap, 8. verse, 18, it is saide that the sonnes of Dauid, Cohanim haiu, were chiefe rulers or Princes, not Priests.

So in the 20 of the same booke, verse, 26. Ira the Iairite is called Cohen le Dauid, that is a chiefe prince about Dauid, as Saint Hierome expoundeth it saying Vide Hieron, traditi. du. he­braic▪ in lib, Regum▪ Ira Iairites erat sacerdos Dauid, id est magister; sicut alib [...] scriptum est. filij autem Dauiderant sacerdotes, id est magi­stri fratrum suorum. Ira the Iairite was a Priest of Dauid, that is, a ruler, as it is else where written: the sonnes of Dauid were priests, that is rulers of there brethren.

Nowe to make application of this that hath beene said: whereas the text onely proueth, that the Prin­ces or officers of Pharaohs houshold, who were maintained by Pharaohs prouision, were exempted from paying tribute to Pharaoh: Bellarmine pre­tendeth to proue thereby, that priests were exemp­ted too.

To conclude, be it granted, that they were thereby exempted, It was but a politicke lawe made by IOSEPH for that Countrie onely: Princes of other Countreyes were not bounde to that consti­tution

[Page 101]20 To proue that euery one hath from his na­tiuitie an Angel for his custodie, the Rhem. in A­poc. 1, sect, 9 Rhemists quote Act, 12. 15. It is his Angell: which place me thinkes might better be translated thus; it is his messenger: for the Act. 12. 5 Church that made earnest prayer vnto God for him, were not so simple as to thinke, that an An­gell Ibid▪ verse. 13 knocked at their entrie doore: but they verilie thought, when Rhode tolde them that it was Peter that knocked, that it was a messenger come from Peter.

21 Rhem. ibid. They doe also for the same purpose, quote Gen. 48, 16. The Angell, which hath deliuered mee from all euill, blesse the children, &c. But heere by Angell is to bee vnderstood Christ: as appeareth by Genesis 31, 13, where the same Angell is called the God of Bethel. and by Gen. 32, 28. where Ia­cob is called Israell, because he had power with God: and by the 30. verse of the same Chapter, where the place where Iacob wrestled with him, is called Peniel, because hee had there seene GOD face to face.

22 To proue that the Angels doe offer vppe our prayers vnto God: your Rhem. in Apocal. 8. Rhemists quote Revel. 8. 3 Then another Angell came and stood before the al­tar hauing a golden censer, and much odours was giuen vnto him, that hee should offer with the pray­ers of all Saints vpon the golden altar, which is bee­fore the throne.

But they considered not, howe that Saint Austen vppon this place, saith, that Aug. quaest, in Euangel. 34▪ this Angell is Christ: that the golden censeris his bodie, out of which Godu Aug homil. in Apocal. 6. smelt a sweete sauour; and that CHRIST doth sanctifie our prayers, as the Altar sanctifieth the gift.

23 To proue that Angels may bee worshipped, [Page 102] your Rhemin. Apo­cal, 19▪ lect. 4 Rhemists quote Iosua. 5. 14. Ioshua fell on his face to the earth and did worship.

But herein Ioshua non a­dorasset, ni si: agnouisset de­um, &c. Origen, homil. 6, in Ioshuam. Iosua (to vse Saint Origens exposition) would not haue adored and worshipped him, had hee not knowne him to be God: for who else is the Prince of the armie of the power of God, but our Lord Iesus Christ?

Thus you see, how that Origen thinketh, that Io­shua worshipped not an Angell, but the Lord Christ ^x the Captaine of the Lords host,

24 To proue that the Virgin Marie was free from Originall sinne, Ioshua 5, 14 & 15 * Bellarm, lib, 3 de calt. Sanct. cap, 15. Bellarmine quoteth Cantic. 4, 7. thou art all faire my loue, and there is noe spotte in thee,

But Saint Paule, who was a better expounder of the scripture, then Cardinall Bellarmine, tooke this place in the Canticle, to bee meant of the spouse of Christ, and not of the mother of Christ: for he ^y appli eth it to the Church which is all glorious, & with­out spot or wrinckle: and not to the Virgin Marie, who (to vse Saint Austens words? Aug de sanct. Virginit, cap, 4 was more blessed y Ephs, 5. 27 percipiendo fidem Ceristi, quam concipiendo carnem Christi; by perceiuing the faith of Christ, then by conceiuing the flesh of Christ.

25 To proue that there are seuen Sacraments, viz. Baptisme, the Eucharist, Confirmation, Penance, Matrimonie, orders, and extreame vnction; your Bellarm, lib, 2. de Sacram▪ c. 26 et Rhem, in A­pocal, 1, sect. 3 Doctors heape vp together sundrie places of Scrip­ture, where the number of seuen is mentioned, as, 2, Reg. 5. 10. Elisha sent a messenger vnto him, saying; Goe and wash thee in Iorden seuen times, and thy flesh shall come againe to thee, and thou shalt bee cleansed. Exodus. 29, 37. Seuen daies shalt thou cleanse the Altar, and sanctifie it, so the Alter shall bee most holy. Iob, 42. 8, Take vnto you now seuen Bullockes and seuen Rammes and goe to my servant Iob, and offer vp, for your selues a burnt [Page 103] offering, &c. And the Reuel, where mention is made of seuen Churches, seuen Angels, seuen starres, seuen Candlestickes, and seuen thunders. I wonder that Iud, 8 these dreamers did forget to quote Gen. 41, 18 19, 20. Where Pharaoh dreamed that he saw come vpc Reuel, 17, 8 out of the riuer, seuen leane and euill fauoured kine, which did eate vppe seuen fat kine: and Reuel. 17, 3. Where Saint Iohn sawe a woman sit vpon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blas­phemie which had seuen heads, &c. For this beast with seuen heads is called a Mysterie, or a Sacrament, as your vulgar translation hath it. I will not say, that by this beast with seuen heads, is meant the Pope with his seuen sacraments: for ^d the seuen heades are seuen viz, Caelius, Auentinas, Exquitinus, Capitolinus, V [...]minalis, Palatinus et Quirinalis. mountaines, wheron the woman sitteth: they are also seuen Viz. Reges, Consules, Decē viri, Tribuni, Dictatores, Imperatores, et Papae. kings: viz. Reges, cōsules, Decem viri, Tribuni, Dictatores fiue are fallen, and viz. Impera­tores. one is, and viz. Papae, another is not yet come. But I say, that they may as well picke out hence their seuen popish sacra­ments, as from the places which they alleadge: for the number of seuen is here my sticall, and prophe­ticall, as well as there.

26 To proue that all which die vnbaptized, vn­lesse the want of baptisme be recompenced either by martyrdome or pennance, must needes bee depriued of eternalllife, your Bellarm, lib, [...] ▪ de baptism. c; 4 et Rhem, in Iohn. 3. Doctours quote. Iohn 3. 5, Ex­cept that a man be borne of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdome of God, whereby water is not to bee understood materiall water, but spirituall water wherwith the holy ghost dothwash vs into newnes of life, or if it were to be vnderstood, of the Element of water, yet (as the master of the sentences expounds it) Petrus Lom­bard. lib. 4, Sent dist, 4 intelligendum est de illis qui possunt et contemnunt baptizari: It must be vnderstood of those which may: and yet contemne to be bap­tized. Yea, one of your Innocentius 3 apud Greg, Decret. lib. 3. tit. 42. cap, 3 Popes iudged, that this place maketh nothing against baptizing of infants, [Page 104] as appeareth by these his wordes: Ex vi literae satis patet praedictas authoritates, &c. By the very letter it is apparent, that the foresaid authorities (hee spake of this place and of diuers others such like) must on­ly be vnderstood of those that are of age, which haue a multitude of sinnes, and cannot be vnderstoode of little ones, which onely haue originall sinne. But if the Pope had not saide it; Bernard. e­pist, 77 Nequaquam possum omnino desperare salutem, si aquam non cōtemptus, sed sola prohibe at imposibilitas: I cannot altogether despaire of their saluation, if contempt do not prohi­bite the water of baptisme, but only an impossibilitie of hauing of it. Clemens, e­pist, 4 Bonum enim est, et puritati conve­niens etiam corpus aqua diluere; bonum dico, non quasi principale illud, in quo mens purificatur, sed quod hoc sit sequela illius boni, in quo caro diluitur: for it is a good and a conuenient thing, to wash the bodie in water; good I say, but not that principall good, whereby the mind is cleansed, but that this is a sequele or a consequent good thing to that, where­by the flesh is washed.

27 To proue that the body of Christ is really and substantially in the Sacrament, you vsually quote Math. 26. this is my body. But you must know, that the scripture vsually speaketh tropically in the decla­ration of the Sacraments, and saith (this is) for (this signifieth and representeth) for example sake and for verifying what I haue said, take a view of Gen. 17 10. Where Circumcision is called the This is my couenant. gen. 17, 10▪ couenant it selfe, whereas it was a It shall be a figne of the co­u [...]nāt gen, 17 11 signe onely of the couenant: and of Exod. 12. 11. where the lambe is saide to be the It is the Lords Passouer▪ Lordes passouer when as it was onely a It is the sacri­fice of the lords Passouer▪ Exod. 12, 27. sacrifice and The blood shalbe a token for you Exod. 12, 13. token of the Lords passouer.

Saint Paul also speaking of the Sacrament of the Iewes, saith, that [...], Cor▪ 10▪ 4 the rocke was Christ, that is, sig­nified Christ.

Nowe to applie this, in the same sence Christ here [Page 105] speaketh of this sacrament of the newe testament, say­ing: this is my body, that is this signifieth, exhibi­teth and presenteth vnto you my bodie.

This my exposition is confirmed by the iudge­ment of Saint Augustine: Augu. contr Adimant. cap. 12 non dubitauit dominus dicere, hoc est corpus meum, cum daret signum corporis sui. The Lord doubted not to say, this is my bodie, when hee gaue a signe of his body. And in another place: August. in Psal. 3. Christus corporis sui figuram discipulis commendaeuit: Christ did commend to his disciples a figure of his body. Yea, the seuenth general Councell, vpon these words, hoc est corpus meum; inferred thus: Vide Concil. tom. 3. in Ni­cen, 2, Act. 6 Ecce igiter viuisicantis illius corporis imaginem totam, panis scilicet substantiam, quam mandauit apponi, &c. Behold therefore the whole or onely image of that quickeninge body, to wit, the substance of bread, which he commāded to be set before them.

Loe heere, they held, that our Sauiour commanded to bee set before his disciples, not the forme onely of bread, but the substance of bread; and not this body but the image and figure of his body; August. in Psal. 3. quid ergo paras dentem et ventrem? crede et man ducasti: why doest thou therefore make ready thy teeth, & the belly? beleeue in Christ and thou hast eaten him.

28 Canisius de sacram. extrem. vnct. et Rhem. in hunc, locum. You ground your sacrament of extreame vnctiō vpon the 5th, chapter of Iames vers. 14, Is any man sicke amonge you? let him call for the elders of the Church, & let them pray for him, & annoint him with oile, &c. wherunto I answere, that the gift of healing was then in the Church, as appeareth in Marke. 6, 13, and that this annointing with oyle, was in those daies a signe of that miraculous gift; & that the gift being now taken away, the signe is to no vse.

2. it followeth not, that this annoynting with oile is therefore a sacrament, because the Apostles vsed it in healing of the diseased: for Christ himself did oh. 9▪ 6 spit on [Page 106] the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and annoin­ted the eyes of the blind with claie. Nowe doth it therefore follow that this annointing the eyes of the blind with clay, is a sacrament, because Christ vsed it in curing of the blind?

Marke 7, 33 Hee did also put his finger in the eares of one that was deafe, and stammered in his speech, and did spit, and did touch his tongue. Doth it follow then that it is a sacramēt to put our fingers in the eares of deafe men; or to spit or touch the tongues of them that are dumbe?

29 To proue, that it was lawfull for the Patri­arkes of the Hebrewes, by way of dispensation to haue many wiues, Bellarm, de matrim, cap, 11 propos. 4 Bellarmine quoteth, Gen, 16, 2 Where Sara gaue consent to Abraham to take ano­ther wife, which shee (saith he) would not haue done, if it had beene vnlawfull. Whereunto I aunswere, that from the falles and infirmities of holy men or women, the argument followeth not, to proue the thing to be lawfull Gen. 9, 21 Noah offended in drunkennes, and Genesis. 19, 33 Lot in incest, and 2 Sam. 11, 4, Dauid in adultery, and 1 Reg, 11. 1 Salomon in marrying many outlandish women, & Mathew. 26 Peter in thrise denying his maister: doth it followe, that it is therefore lawfull for vs, to do the like? No; Aug. in psa. 51 non cadendi exemplum propositum est, sed sicecideris re­surgendi, &c. There is not proposed to thee any example of falling, but of arising when thou art fal­len.

Take heede thou doe not fall, let not the slippe of the greater, be the delight of the lesser; but let the fall of the greater bee a trembling to the lesser; for the Aug de doct. Christan: lib, 3. 23 falles of the greater are written to this purpose, that the saying of the Apostle may euery where be trē ­bled at, wher he saith, let him that standeth take heed least he fall. Bellarmine therfore playeth the spider, and out of a good flowre sucketh deadly poyson:

[Page 107]Secondly, I answere, that Hagar was not Abra­hams wife, while Sara liued for shee was still vnder Saraes correction, and was called her maide, as you may see in Gene. 16, 6. Then Abraham saide vnto Sarah. Behold, thy maide is in thy hand, doe with her, as it pleaseth thee. &c. and verse. 9, Then the Angell of the Lorde saide to her, returne to thy Dame, and humble thy selfe vnder her hands.

30 To proue that the Patriarkes and Prophets before Christs cōming were not in heauen, but were kept in an infernall place of darkenesse called Limbus Patrum, and were thence deliuered by Christes des­cending into hell, Bellarm. de Christi anima lib, 4 cap. 11 Bellarmine alleadgeth Zachar. 9 11. I haue loosed thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

But Saint Austen doth farre otherwise expound this text, and in a better sence: for hee is of opinion, that the Prophet there speaketh of the deliuerance of the people from their cruell, and vniust bondage and captiuity: and that, by the pit without water he mea­ueth Humanae mi­senae siccā pro­funditatem et sterilē vbi non sunt fluenta iu­stitiae, sed ini­quitatis lutum. Aug. de civitate Dei, li. 18. c▪ 5 the drie and barren gulfe of humane misery, where there are noe flowing springes of equitie, but standing pudles of iniquity.

31 To proue that Antichrist shall bee one particu­lar man, and shall haue a proper name, Bellarm, lib, 3 de Pontif. ca. 10 Bellarmine alleadgeth, Reuel. 13, 18. Heere is wisedome Let him that hath wit, count the number of the beaste: for it is the number of a man, and his number is sixe hundreth threescore and sixe. But of an other mind is Irenaeus, who is a most anciēt doctor of the church, euen the Vide Trithe­mium descrip­toribus ecclesi­asticis, cap, 8 scholler of Poly carpe, who was the disci­ple of Saint Iohn that wrote the Revelation▪ His te­stimonie is this: Iren, lib. 5 adv▪ haeres, c. 30 Sed et Latemos nomen sexcentorum sexagint a sex annorum in secontinet; et valde verisimile est, quoniam verissimum regnum hoc habet vocabulum, Laetini enim sunt, quinuncregnāt: But the name Lateinos [Page 108] also containeth the number 666. and it is verie likelie, because the moste true kingdome hath this name, for they are Latines which now raigne.

Thus you see, how that Irenaeus thought, that An­tichrist shall not haue a name proper to one man; but a name that agreeth to a kingdome, state, compa­nie or succession of men. And of the same minde was Arethas Cappadox, as one of your owne Feu-ardētius in Iren. l. 5. c. 30 writers ac­knowledgeth.

Yea, the said father reporteth, that those who had seene Saint Iohn Facie ad faci­em▪ Iren▪ lib: 5 de haeres, ca. 30 face to face, did testifie that the number of the beasts name Numerus no­minis bestiae, secundum Grae corum compu­putationem, per literas quae in eo sunt, sexcen­tos habet et sex­aginta, et sex; hoc est, decadas aequales hex a­contasin, et hec atoncadas ae▪ quales monasin, Iraeneus ibid. according to the cōputa­tion of the Greeke, by the letters that are therein, shal containe 666. and that it Valde verisi­mile est. Ibid. is very likely, that his name shalbe Latinos.

Whitakerus in resp. ad tricesimam nonam Sanderi demonstratio­nem. Quod Irenaeus verisimile esse dixerit, nos pro­culdubio verum certum (que) possimus affirmare: that which Ireneus saide was very likely. wee without doubt may boldly affirme, to be a moste certaine and apparent truth: and that which he could but Nos non in eo periclitabimur, nec asseuerantes pronuntiabimus hoc cum nomen habiturum: scientes quoniam si oporteret manifeste praesenti tempore praeconiari nomen eius, per ipsum vtique editum fuisset, qui et apocalypsin viderat, Iren, lib. 5 cap. 30. ghesse at in his time, Wee may nowe define; time (which is the best interpreter of a prophecie) hauing made that plaine and perspicuous, which vntill the Certius et sine periculo est, sustinere adimpletionem prophetiae, quam suspicari et diuinare nomina quaelibet. Iren Ibid. pro­phecie was cleared by they fulfilling and euent there­of, was darke and ambiguous▪

To conclude then, I holde it to bee an oracle for truth, had Ireneus not ghessed at it, that Antichristsz Omnes prophetiae priusquam habent effectum, aenigmata et ambiguitates sunt hominibus Iren. lib, 4▪ cap. 43. [Page 109] name is Romane, or Latine: for these Characters [...] do signifie 666. and this number is gathered of the small number, [...], which in the whole maketh 666. as appeareth by this computation of Feu-ardentius in Iren. lib. 5 cap. 30. Fen-arden [...] tius.

I haue set downe this computation, not to play the Cabalist vpon letters, but to shew, that this Anti­christian beast is a Latine, and to bringe you to a full detestation of the Romish Church. For what Church is there in the world, that can so iustly bee called the Latine Church? Is not the head of that Church a La­tine? doth he not raigne in Italie, which inolde time was called Latium or Latinum? doth he not make the Latine translation of scripture onely authenticall? vseth hee not the Latin tongue in his idolatrous Sy­nagogues? Doth he not Reuel. 13, 16. make al, both small & great, rich and poore, free and bond, to giue vnto him their fidelity, oath and obedience; and to come to his Latine seruice? And doth he suffer any to Reuel. 13, 17. buy, or sell, or to liue within his territories; saue he that pro­fesseth himselfe to bee a Romane or Latin, in respect of his Religion?

[Page 110]32 To proue that Antichrist shall reedifie andc Bellarm, de Pontif lib▪ 3, c▪ 13, et Rhemist. in 2, Thess. 2 build againe the Temple of Ierusalem, and haue his imperiall seate there, your Doctours alleadge 2. Thess. 2. 4. He doth sit as God in the Temple of GOD, &c. Whereunto I answeare, that it is impossible for Antichrist, to sit in the Temple at Ierusalem, because it was destroyed within the compasse of 40 yeares after Christ by Vide Ioseph de bello Iudai­co li. 7. c▪ 9, et, 10 the armie of Titus Vespasianus, in such sort, that their was not Luk, 21, 6, a stone left vppon a stone that was not throwne downe.

But you will say, that though a stone doth not now lie vpon a stone, yet is it not impossible to make one stone to be vpon another there. I answeare, that is im­possible: for wee Vide Ruffin. inst, li, 8▪ c▪ 38▪ et Theodoret. hb. 3▪ cap. 20 read, that the Iewes by the leaue and helpe of Iulian the Emperour, endeauoured to build againe their temple and cittie about 330 years after the death of Christ. But the Lorde, to shew that he was not pleased, as Sozomen. lib 5, cap, vlt. Sozomen saith, with the renewing of the temple, hindered this their enter­prise, first by fire from heauen, and after out of the earth, and by terrible earthquakes, whereby many of them were slaine.

But you will further say, that the reason why God hindered Iulian from building agine the temple, was because hee will suffer none to build it againe, saue onely Antichrist. I answeare, that he will neuer suffer any man that either is, or shall be to the end of the world, to reedifie and build againe that temple: for Erit in templo abominatio de solationis, et vs (que) ad consum mationem et finem persevera bit. Vulgar, editio. there shalbe in the temple, as the Prophet Danieli Daniel, 9▪ 27 hath foretold, the abomination of desolation, & that desolation shall continue vnto the consummation and end, that is, Vsque, ad consummatio­nem mundi et finem perseue­rabit. Hieron. in Dan. 9 vntill the consummation of the world, and end of all thinges. Yea, Luk, 21, 2 [...] Ierusalem (as saith our Sauiour) shalbe torden vnder foote of the Gentiles, vntill the time of the Gentiles bee fulfilled, that is, vntill there Mat, 24, 29 et 30 appeare the signe of the sonne of [Page 111] man in heauen, and there be signes in the sunne and moone, and the powers of heauen be shaken: which shall be immediately before the last iudgement.

Now then, seeing that God hath thus accursed Ie­rusalem with perpetuall desolation: I gather hence that Antichrist shall not sit in the Temple there, as Bellarmine teacheth you: and consequently, that by the Temple in this place, is not to bee vnderstoode the Temple of Ierusalem.

By the Temple therefore hee meaneth these con­gregatiōs, that were somtimes true visible Churches: that should (notwithstanding their reuolting) bee re­puted & taken to be true Churches, by the members and fauourites thereof.

To this exposition doe both the Greeke and Latine fathers subscribe. Cathisthesetai eis ton naon tou theou he shall sit in the Temple of God, that is, (saith Saint Chrysost. in 2. Thessal. [...] Chrysostome) Ou ton en Ierosolumois alla eis tas eccle­sias not in the Temple of Ierusalem, but in the Churches, whereunto agreeth that of Oeucumeni­us: Ou ton en Ierousalem legei, alla eis tas ecclestas tou theou the Apostle saith not, hee shall sit in the Temple of Ierusalem: but in the Churches of God,o Oecumenius in 2, Thess 2. that is in such Churches as both haue beene true vi­sible Churches of God, and do also retaine the name and shadow of the Church.

As for the Latine fathers, they were so farre from thinking that Ierusalem should bee the seat of Anti­christ, as that they confidently auouched, that Rome is mystical Babilon spoken of in the Reuelation▪ and consequently that the Church of Rome is the seate of Antichrist, and not the temple of Ierusalem, I will acquaint you with their expresse words. Hieron. lib. 2 aduersus Ioui­nian. Roma (saith S. Hierome) aut fortitudinis nomen est apud Graecos, aut sublimitatis iuxta Hebraeos. Serua quod diceris: virtus te excelsāfaciat, non voluptas humilē: maledictionē quā tibi [Page 112] saluator in Apocalypsi cōminatus est, potes effugere per pani­tentiam: Rome is either with the Greekes a name of strength, or with the Hebrues, a name of height and sublimity. Rome, see that thou be aunswerable to thy name. Let vertue exalt thee, not pleasure debase thee; thou maiest by repentance escape that curse, which our Sauiour hath threatened thee with.

Many other such like places, hath the same Hieron. Epist. ad Marcellam. quaest. 11▪ ad Algasiam. in comment. in Isaia cap. 4, et in praefat. de spi­ritu sancto. ^r August. de Civitate Dei lib. 18. cap. 22. et cap. 27. fa­ther in his worthie writings. Saint Austen also a­greeth with him, and saith that Rome is, altera Babi­lon, another Babilon, and August. de Civitate Dei lib. 18. cap. 2. secunda Babilonia: a se­cond Babilon. Yea, Cusan. lib. 2. de Concordia Cathol. cap. vlt. Cusanus your owne Cardinall confesseth that Beda and all the auncient interpre­ters haue so expounded this place in the Reuela­tion.

Thus you see in part, howe that your expositions are quite contrarie to the expositions of the ancient fathers, and as sophisticall as the expositions of the Scribes.

Many other places of scripture might bee produ­ced, which your writers haue by their false expositi­ous corrupted: but I haue thought good, to make mention of these onely, as beeing places of greatest consequent.

Now let me intreat you, that you would vouch­safe from henceforth to embrace these our expositi­ons, and to reiect the corrupt glosses of your owne expositours.

Embrace your expositions? No, I will embrace the Popes,

The Popes? why I pray I pray you?

Why? because hee cannot erre in expounding of the scriptures,

Not erre▪ Alphons. de haeres, lib. 1, cap 4. Non credo aliquem esse adeo impu­dentē Papae assentatorem, vt ei tribuere hoc Velit, vt nec errare, nec in interpretatione sacrarum scriptura­rum hallucinari possit. Nam, cum constet, plures eorum adeo esse illiteratos, vt Grammaticam penitus ignorent, qui fit, vt sacras literas interpretari possint? I doe not beleeue that there is any so impudēt a flat­terer of the Pope, that will giue him this prehemi­nence, that hee can neither erre, nor misse in expounding of the sacred scriptures: for seeing it is well knowne, that many Popes be so vtterly voide of learning, as that they know not the principles of Grammar; howe may it be, that they should be able to expound the scriptures?

Besides this, I haue alreadie shewed you that your expositions agree not with the words of scripture.

What though? Hosius de ex­presso verbo Dei. Si quis habeat interpretationem, ecclesiae Romanae de loco aliquo scripturae, etiamsi nec sciat, nec intelligat, an, et quomodo cum Scriptu­rae Verbis conueniat, tamen habet ipsissimum verbū [Page 114] Dei: If a man haue the exposition of the Church of Rome, touching any place▪ of the Scriptures, although hee neither know, nor vnderstand, whether and how it agreeth with the words of the Scripture, yet hath hee the verie words of God.

O horrible blasphemie! You haue (I see) the same opinion of the Popes expositions, that thee Rabbini­call Iewes had of the expositions of their Rabbines? for they (as Lyra reporteth) cried out thus: Lyra in Deu­teron. cap. 17 Recipi­endum est quic quid hoc modo proponatur, etiam si dicant dextram esse sinistram: wee must needes receiue, what soeuer the Rabbines propound vnto vs, although they tell vs, that the right hand is the left. Yea, Rabbi▪ Abra­ham Hispanus. not­withstanding (say they) our expositions seeme to vs neuer so true, and right; yet must we throw our truths to the ground: for the truth indeed is with them.

To be plaine with you, had wee no other cause to eondemne you for hereticks; yet this one (me thinks) should be sufficient.

What! do you repute all those to bee heretickes, thata Quicunque aliter sacram scripturam in­telligit, quam sensus spiritus flagitat, a quo scriptaest: sicet ab ecclesia non recesserit, tamē haereticus ap­pellari potest. Hieron. in Ga­lat. 1. et Isid. lib, 8. Orig. expound the scriptures amisse? admit we did erre in expounding of the scriptures: are we therefore to be ranged amongst heritickes? O horrible blasphemie!

Yes, I hold with the ancient fathers, that he is an hereticke, that expoundeth the scriptures otheerwise then the meaning of the holy Ghost requireth; so be it he persist and perseuere therein after that the true sence thereof hath beene shewed him.

[Page 115]But not to stand any longer vpon your expositiōs: let vs proceede on, and take a view of your agree­ments with the Seuerians, Sampsees, Simonians, Ta­tians, valentinians and Zuenckfeldians.

Wherein doe wee agree with the Seuerians, and Sampsees?

The Seuerians, (as testifieth Aug, de hae­res. cap. 24. Saint Austen) depended much vpon such miracles, as they either forged themselues, or effected by the helpe of the deuills: so do you, as your owne writers acknowledge. Alexand. de Hales, part. 4 et quaest. 53. mem. 4. In sa­cramento (saith Alexander de Hales) apparet caro, inter dum humana procuratione, interdum operatione diabolica: In the sacrament appeareth flesh, sometimes by mans procurement, and sometimes by the operation of the Deuill.

The Epiphan▪ haeres. 53. Sampsees kept the spittle of two women whom they worshipped; and the dust of their feet, & caried it about with them to cure diseases withall: so do you worship the ashes & reliques of saints, & carie them about with you for the same purpose that the Sampsees did.

Wherein doe wee resemble the Simonians?

Simon Magus gaue his owne image, and thee August. de haeres. cap▪ 1. Image of his whore Selene; to bee worshipped of his [Page 116] followers: so the present Church of Rome giueth the image of the whore of Babylon to bee worshipped, and the images of those that were the authors of their pretended religious orders.

2 Simon Magus, Docebat de­testandam tur­pitudinem in differenter vten di saeminis. August, Ibid. taught, as Saint Austen wit­nesse [...]h, that it is no sinne to vse women indifferenter, that is, without making difference betwixt wife, con­cubine, and harlot: so doe you teach, that hee that hath no wife, may insteed of her haue a concubine, as is apparent in some copies of your Dist. 34. Is qui Parisijs. anno 1505 decrees; where these words are to be found: Qui non habet vxorem, loco illius concubinam debet habere: hee that hath not a wife, ought in steede of her to haue a concu­bine.

And in the Chapter immediatly following it is thus written: Christiano non nisi vnam tantum habere licet, aut vxorem, aut certe loco vxoris, si coniux deest, con­cubinam: It is lawefull for a Christian man to haue onely one woman, either his wife, or in steed of his wife, if his wife bee wanting, a concubine. Yea, Epis­copus (saith your great Abbate De Cohabit. Clericorum et mulier. Panormitan) non tenetur deponere clericum concubinarium: the Bishop is not bound to depriue a Priest that keepeth a Concu­bine.

3 Simon Magus Act, 8, 20. thought that the gist of God, might be obtained with money. And thereuppon those that buy and sell orders are by the ancient fa­thers accounted Simonians. Concil. Chal▪ [...]ed. Act 15, can. 2, Siquis episcoporum (say the three hundreth and thirtie fathers assembled in the Councel of Chalcedon) acceptapecunia, ordinationem fecerit, et sub precium deduxerit impreciabilem gratiam, at que ordinauer it per pecunias episcopum, siue chorepiscopum siue presbyterum, siue diaconum, aut quemcunque alium, qui connumeratur inter Clericos; aut acceptapecunia, ordina­uerit aeconomum id est, defensorem, siue paranomarium: qui cunque ergohoc meditatus furit, si conuictus fuerit, ipse [Page 117] quidem subeat gradus sui periculum: et qui sic ordinatus fuerit, nullum habeat sructum ex huiusmodi et creatione probrosa et mercimonio, sed sit alienus et dignitat is et solici­tudinis eius, quam per pecunias introiuit. Sed et ille, qui in­stans tam turpibus et illicitis datis, intercessor apparuit, si­quidem clericus fuerit, de proprio decedat gradu: si vero lai­cus, siue monachus fuerit, anathema sit.

Those also are reputed Simonians, that obtaine their orders by flatterie, or by the letters of great personages, Chrysost, in Act. Apost. cap. 1, homil. 3 Cogita (saith Saint Chrystome, spea­king of this kind of Simonians) quid acciderit Simoni: Quid enim refert si non das peccuniam, sed pecu­niae loco adularis, subornas, multaquae machinaris? pecunia tua sit tecum in perditionem, quoniam putasti ambitu hu­mano parare donum dei.

Of both these sorts of Simonians there vvas great store in Saint Hieromes dayes, as may appeare by this speech of his: Hieron, in e­pist. ad Tit. c, 1. Nunc cernimus plurimos hanc rem beneficium facere, vt non quaeranteos, qui pos­sunt ecclesiae plus prodesse, etin ecclesia erigere co­lumnas: sed quos vel ipsi amant, vel quorum sunt obsequijs deliniti, vel pro quibus maiorum quispiam rogauerit, et vt deteriora taceam, qui vt clerici fierent, muneribus impetrarunt.

And of both these sorts, there is also great store in the Romish Church at this, day, as appeareth by this Spanish Collect. ex Hermā Nunes. prouerbe: Obispo de cahahorra haze los as­nos de corona: with bribes the Bishops are made blind, that crowne-shau'd asses orders find.

But what do I speake of those onely that buy and sell orders? Mantuan. lib. Calam. 3. Venalia nobis (saith Frier Mantuan. speaking of the Church of Rome) Templa sacerdotes, altaria, sacra coronae, ignis, thura, preces, caelum est venale, deus (que) Amongst vs, Churches, Priests, altars, sacri­fices, garlands, fier, franckencense, prayers and hea­uen are set to sale, yea God himselfe may be had for [Page 118] money amongst vs.

But what do I produce onely one witnesse? you shall haue more, thē those, of your owne religion, to verifie what I haue saide. Matthew Paris a monke of Saint Albons, saith, that the Mat, Paris in Henrico 3 sub anno. 241, vnsatiable greedines of the Church of Rome so increased confounding right and wrong; vt deposito pudore, velut meritrix vul­garis et effrons, omnibus venalis et exposita vsuram pro paruo, simoniam pro nullo inconueniente repu­taret, that laying shame aside as a common and im­pudent harlot, shee prostituteth, herselfe to euery man for money, accounting vsury for a smal fault, and Simonie for none.

Hereunto might be added the testimonies of Durand, de modo celebran di Concil lib, 2. Du­rande, and of Bernard of Clunice, who speaking of Rome, saith thus: Bernard Clu­niacens. in Satyra. Roma dat omnia omnia danti­bus: Omnia Romae cum pretio: Rome giueth all things to them that giue all thinges: all things at Rome will passe for money.

And vnto them might be adoyned Thomas Bec­ket, who, when for his wilfull disobedience, and treason committed against his Prince, he had fled to Rome for aide and succour, and saw that nothing would be wrought there without money, wrote thus thereof to the Bishop of Mentz: Mater Roma facta est meretrix, et prostituta est pro mercede: Rome ourThomas Beck. epist. ad Archi­episc. Moguntin mother is become an harlot, and for money prostitu­teth herselfe to sale.

But to come to the Popes themselues, wee Platina in Be­nedict. 9 read, that Pope Benedict the ninth sold his Popedome to Gregorie the sixth: that Sixtus the fourth Agrippa de Lenocinio, et orat, ad Lo­uaniens. built a sumptuous stewes in Rome, appointing it to be both masculine and faeminine, and making a gaine of thatxVid. Muscul, in Iohan. cap. 6. beastlie trade: and that these verses were made of Pope Alexander, and spread abroade in his time: viz.

Thatis, Pope Alexander maketh sale of his keyes; of his altars, and of Christ himselfe. Well may hee sell those thinges: for he payed deare for them. To conclude, on of your Iohannes Monachus. Canonists speaketh thus of your Romish courtes.

And an other of your Iohannes Andreas. Canonists, alluding to the name of Rome, versifieth thus: Roma manus rodit: quas rodere non valet, odit.

Yea▪ Theodoric, de Schismate▪ Theodoricus, Felinus deo­fficio Iudicis delegati. Felinus, Extrau. de Si­monia. ap, 1 num. 5, fol. 18 Panormitane, Archideaci florent. in tract, de haeres, Archiadocus Florentinus, Extrau, de Simonia. Hostiensis, and others of your owne writers acknowledge, howe that the Ro­mish Church pruiledgeth both the Pope and his Cardinales, to sell Bishoprickes, Deaneries, Abbies, Archdeaconries, yea, and all other thinges, that are simonia call by law positiue.

And thus much concerning your agreement with the Simonians: Now let vs come to the Tatians, Va­lentinians and Zuenckfieldians.

Wherein agree you with the Tatians?

Epiphan, hae­res, 46 Tatianus the Hereticke, and author of the sect [Page 120] of the Encratites, did condemne all mariage as an impure state of life: so did Pope Syricius [...]a­pud Gratian [...]. distinct, 28, cap proposuisti. Syricius con­demne all mariages as vncleane both in the Clergie and the Laitie.

2 Both the hereticke Tatianus, and the hereticall Pope Syricius, to proue that mariage is simplie euill vide loca su­pracitata. alleadged Rom. 8. 8▪ they that are in the flesh can­not please God. And Galathians. 6, 8. Hee that sow­eth to the flesh, shall of the flesh reape corrupti­on. In which places, the Apostle speaketh not of the workes of nature, but of corrupt nature which ouerturneth the diuine order, which God in the creation set in nature.

Wherein resemble we the Valentinians?

The Valentinians vsed a barbarous & vnknowne tongue among the common people as appeareth by these words of Saint Ierome: Hieron, ad Theodor. Barbaro simplices quos (que) terrent sono, vt quod non intelligunt, plus mirentur: the Valentinians terrifie the simple people with a barbarous sound of wordes, that whatsoeuer they vnderstand not, they may the more wonder at, and haue in reuerence. And this practise of the Valen­tinians, may fitly be paralleled by the practise of the Romish Church at this day, in vsing an vnknowne and barbarous toung in their Church-seruice. I call it a barbarous tongue, because the common people vnderstand it not: for 1 Cor▪ 14, 11 except I know the power of the voice, I shall be vnto him that speaketh, abarbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian vnto me.

Wherein do weioyne with the Zuenckfieldians.

The Vide. Hosius Polo­nus in lib. de expresso▪ Dei verbo. Zuenckfieldians, refused to be iudged by the scriptures calling them egena elementa, beggerly ele­ments, and fled vnto the inward and secret reuelati­ons of the spirit: and in like sort do you refuse to bee iudged by the scripture, calling it dead inke, & what not? I wil giue you the expresse words of your appro­ued writers Pighius Con­trouers. 3, de eccles. Si dixeris (saith Albertus Pighius) haec referri oportere ad iudiciū scripturarum, communis te sen­sus ignarum esse comprobas; Sunt enim scripturae muti iu­dices: If thou say, that these matters ought to bee re­ferred to the iudgementes of the Scriptures thou shewest thy selfe to bee voide of common sense: for the Scriptures are dumbe Iudges: and in another place: Pigghius, de Hierarchia ec­cles. lib, 3, cap. 3 Sunt scripturae, (vt non minus vere quam festiue dixit quidam) velut nasus cereus, qui se horsum, tllorsum, et in quamcun (que) volueris partem trahi, retrahi, fingi (que) facile permittit: the Scriptures are (as one no lesse truely than pleasantly said) like a nose of waxe, that easilie suffereth it selfe to bee drawen backwarde and fore­ward, and to be fashioned this way, and that way, & howsoeuer you list.

Eckius is of the same mind with Pighius, andu Vide kemni­cium in Examine Concil, T [...] dent, pag, 32 most impiously calleth the scriptures, Euangelium nigrum, et theologiam atramentariam, the blacke Gospell, and inken diuinitie.

Citatur ab Illyrico in nor ma Concilij. Lodouicus a canon of the Church of Laterane, in an oration openlie pronounced in the Counsell of Trent, came not farre short of them both, saying: Ec­clesia est viuum pectus Christi: scriptura autem est mortuum atramentum, the Church is the liuelie breast of Christ, but the scripture is as it were dead inke.

[Page 122]And with him iumped the bishop of Poitiers in the said Councell: Hosius lib. 2 contra Bre [...]tiū, Scriptura est res inanis, et muta; sicu [...] b Vide Sleid. lib. 23. etiam sunt reliquae legespoliticae: the scripture is a dead and a dumbe thing, as also are all other polique lawes.

Hosius also the Popes legate and president in the said Councell, when obiection was made, that King Dauid, being not a bishoppe, but onely a temporall Prince had written the Psalmes, blushed not to giue this blasphemous answer; ^q Quidni scriberet? scribimus indocti doctique poematapassim: What if King Dauid wrote the Psames? we write ballades euerie bodie learned and vnlearned.

But to come to the Pope himselfe, Pope Leo the 10. when he had receiued a great summe of money for indulgences, hee said to Cardinall Bembus: Vide Sibrand. Lull▪ de Papa Rom, lib, 10, cap, 2, O Bembe quantum nobis profuit illa de Christo fabula! O Bembus, howe much hath that fable of Christ profi­ted vs! And another time, when the saide Cardinall alleadged a testimonie out of the Gospell, he answe­ted: Quid mihinarras as fabulam illans de Christo? What dost thou tell mee of that fable of Christ?

Thus you see how that your writers do flie from the scriptures, & when they are conuinced by them, fal to accuse them: for which cause they may iustly be ran­ged amongestheretickes; Iren, aduers. haeres. lib, 3 cap. 2. Heretici enim cum ex scrip turis arguuntur, in accusationem conuertuntur ipsarum scripturarum, quasi non certe habeant, neque sunt ex autho­ritate, & quod varie sunt dictae, & quod ex his non possit inue niri verit as ab illis, qui traditionem nesciunt: for here­tickes when they be reproued by scriptures, they be­ginne to finde fault with the scriptures, as if they were not well written, and as if they were not of sufficient authoritie, or were doubtfully vttered, or that they which knowe not tradition, were [Page 123] neuer able by the scriptures to finde out the truth.

Thus also you see, what grosse errours you maintaine. August, Epist. 166, Vindicet nos dens de vobis, vt ipse errorem vestrum in vobis occidat, et nobiscum de veritate gaudia­tis, God so reuenge our cause against you that hee may kill your errour in you, that ye may reioyce to­gether with vs.

The fourth Dialogue

SIr, at my last being with you, I acqvainted you with some London newes, now let me intreat you, that you would vouchsafe to shewe mee the like kindnes and to relate what you haue heard since.

I haue heard a long discourse of the manner of the discouerie of the late intended treason.

Sir, I would gladly heare that: for I haue heard of diuers that it is discouered; but I doe not yet certainely know how it was discouered.

It was discouered by the meanes of a certaine The letter was written without a name in a disguised hand letter that Maister Francis Tresham sent to the Lord Mountegle, some tenne dayes before the Parliament. The contentes whereof are these.

My Lord out of the loue I beare to some of your friendes, I haue a care of your pre­seruation [Page 125] Therefore I would aduise you, as you tender your life, to deuise some excuse to shift off your attendance at this Parliament: for God and man haue concurred to punish the wickednesse of this time, And thinke not slightly of this ad­uertisement, but retire your selfe into your Countrie, where you may expect the euent in safetie. For though there bee no appea­rance of any stirre; yet I say, they shall receiue a terrible Blowe this Parliament, and yet they shall not see who hurts them. This Counsell is not to bee contemned, be­cause it may doe you good and no harme; for the dauger is past so soone as you haue burnt the letter: And I hope GOD will giue you grace to make good vse of it: to whose holy protection I commend you.

Did hee say indeede, that God had eoncurred with them to murther the KING and his Nobles? Hee may fittely bee herein compared [Page 126] to one Thomas Muncer, an Anabaptist whose or­dinarie preachinges were these: God hath warran­ted a Iohan, Slei­dan, Com, 5. Ipsemet, mihi coram pro misit. me face to face, he that cannot lie hath comman­ded me, to attempt the change by these meanes, euen by killing the rulers. And his bloodthirstie compa­nions may also as fittlie be compared to Phifer the lewed companion of the said Muncer, who did but dreame in the night time, of the killing of many mice; and presently bare his companions in hand, that God had warned hm in a dreame, to make away the Nobles.

But I pray you sir what did the Lord Mountegle with the letter, did he burne it as he was aduertised?

No, See the dis­course of this late intended treason. hee no sooner did conceiue the strange contents thereof, but hee concluded not to con­ceale it, what euer might come of it. Whereupon, notwithstanding it was somewhat late in the night and darke, he presently repaired to his Maiesties Pallace at White-hall, and there deliuered the same to the Earle of Salisburie; and the Earle of Salis­burie shewed it to the King vpon Alhallows day in the after-noone.

The Lord Mountegle did therein discharge the part of a most duetifull, and loyall Subiect: for he imitated Mordecai, who no sooner knewe that Bigthan and Teresh sought to lay their handes on the king Ahashuerosh, but he told it vnto Queene Ester, and Ester certified the King thereof in Mor­decais name. To applie this to a good vse if you [Page 127] know any Romish Bigthan and Teresh, that seeke to lay their hands on our dread Soueraigne; it is your part to certifie him thereof. And if you haue intelligence of any King of Aram that taketh Counsell with his seruants against Israell; if God by any meanes reueale it vnto you; it is your dutie with 2, Kings, 6, 9 elbid verse, 12. Elisha to make knowne to the King of Israell, ^e euen the wordes that the King of Aram speaketh in his priuie cham­ber. And if you know any Ishi-benob that in­tendeth to slaie Dauid, and to giue him a terrible blow: you must with 2, Sam, 21, 17 Abishai, though with expo­sing your selfe to perill, presently succour him and smite the Philistin. Yea, you must with the 2, Sam. 23, 16. three mighties, euen with the hazard of your life, breake into the hoast of the Philistines, and draw water out of the Well of Beth [...]lehem, and bringe it to Dauid if hee long for it. To conclude, if any treacherous letters come to your handes, it beho­ueth you to be Eagle-winged, and speedily with the Lord Mountegle to disclose them, least as Da­uid said to Abner, it be saide to you; 1, Sam, 26, 16 ye are wor­thie to die, because you haue not kept your Master the Lords annointed. But in this letter (me thinkes) there was onely giuen a generall obscure aduer­tisement of a terrible blowe to bee giuen: how (I pray you) was the meaning thereof founde out?

Truely See the dis­course of this late intended treason. the King himselfe considered the for­mer sentence in the letter. That they should re­ceiue [Page 128] a tirrible blow at this Parliament, and yet should not see who hurt them; and ioyning it to the sentence imediately following, for the dan­ger is past as soone as you haue burnt the letter, did thereupon coniecture, that the danger menti­oned, should be some suddaine danger by blow­ing vp of powder: vnderstanding by as soone the quicknesse of the danger, which shoulde bee as quickly at an end, as that paper shuld be in bleasing vp in the fire.

Acceptus, faelix, et gratiosus sit iste, quem Do­minusiMuscal, in Psa. [...]18, 26, nobis regem dedit. Welcome, happie, and acceptable be he whom God hath raised vppe to be king ouer vs: for he hath (according to the Embleme of the Aegiptians) oculum cum sceptro a scepter for power and iurisdiction, and with it an eye for watchfulnesse, and discretion. And of him may wee say as Pharaoh saide of Ioseph, when heek Gen, 41. 38 had expounded his dreame; can wee finde such a man as this? and as the Queene of Saba saide of King Salomon: happie are the men, happie are these thy seruantes, which stand euer before thee,k 1. Kings, 10, 9. and heare thy wisedome. Blessed be the Lorde thy God, which loued thee, to set thee on the throwne of Israel, because the LORD loued Israell for e­uer,

To make vse hereof, why do you seeke to mur [Page 129] ther our Soueraigne, that hath receiued such an extraordinarie measure of GODS spirit? Dauid durst not lay his hands on king Saule albeit 1. Sam. 16, 14 the spirit of the Lord was departed from him, and an euill spirit sent of the Lord vexed him; for when he had Saule alone in the caue and might haue slaine him, he spared him, saying: 1. Sam, 24, 7 the Lorde keepe me from doing that thing vnto my maister the Lordes annointed, to lay mine hands vpon him, for hee is the annointed of the Lorde. And after to Abishai offering to smite him wirh a speare to the earth, he said, 1, Sam, 26, 9 destroy him not, for who can lay his hands on the Lords annointed and be guiltlesse? And to the young man that slewe him, 2, Sam, 1, 14 How wast thou not afraid, to put foorth thy hande to destroye the annointed of the Lord? and commanding him to be slaine for this his fact, hee said: 2▪ Sam, 1, 16 thy blood bee vppon thyne owne head; for thyne owne mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I haue slaine the Lords annointed. Yea he him selfe was tou­ched in his heart, because hee had but cut of the lap of Saules garment: wherevpon Saint Austen saith thus: 1, Sam, 24, 6 Quaero, si non habebat Saul sanctitatem, quid in eo Dauid Venerabatur? nam eum propter sa­crosanctam vnctionem et honorauit vivum, et vin­dicauit occisum. Et quia vel panniculum ex eius veste prae Aug, contra li­teras Petiliani lib, 2, cap 48 cidit, percusso corde trepidauit. Ecce Saul non habebat innocentiam, et tamen habebat sanctitatem, non vitae sed vnctionis: if Saul hadde not the holinesse of his annointing, I demaunde [Page 130] what it was that Dauid reuerenced in him? For hee both honoured him being aliue, for his sacred and holy vnction, and reuenged him being slaine. And hee himselfe had but cut off the lappe of his coate, his hart smote him, and he trembled for the fact. Beholde Saule was not innocent, yet had hee the holinesse, not of life, but of vncti­on.

Nowe if Dauid trembled because hee had cut off the lappe of Saules garment, who had but the holinesse of vnction onely: howe dare you cut the throates of those Princes that haue the holinesse both of life and vnction?

If hee durst not lay his hands on Saule, from whome the spirit of the Lorde was departed: howe dare you (my tongue faultreth in pronouncing the word, and the Lord confound him that entertai­neth any such intent) spill his bloud, in whome the spirit of God dwelleth so plentifully? howe can you touch the lappe of his garment without trembling, that is such a constant professor, such a perfect tex­tuary, such a sound expositor, such a Christian liuer and such a liuing Librarie, and walking studie?Bibliothece tis empsuchos, kai peripatoun mouscion. Eunapius.

Why vse you this speech to me: am I one of those that sought to spill the Kings bloud.

What though you be not? A Scorpion you know) hath his stinge within him, though hee [Page 131] doth not alwaies strike: and a grounded Papist (I know) carrieth alwaies a woluish nature, which prepares him euer to the spoyle, though hee neuer did hurt.

But proceede (I pray you) in relating the discouerie of your Catholikes tragicomi­call treason, how did they purpose to haue perfor­med it?

They See Guido Fawkes his confession, propounded to haue it performed by Gunpowder, and by making a myne vnder the house of Parliament: which place they made choyce of the rather, because Religion hauing beene vniustly suppressed there, they thought it fittest that iustice and punishment should bee ex­ecuted there.

So it is thought fittest that their heads should be set vp vpon the Parliament house, because they thought to haue blowne vp the Parliament house. And as Heliodorus told Seleucus of the Temple of Ierusalem: so may wee tell the Pope of the Par­liament house: 2. Maccab. 3 38. 39. If thou hast any enemy or traytor send him thither, and thou shalt receiue him well scourged, if he escape with his life; for in that place, no doubt there is a speciall power of God; for hee that dwelleth in heauen hath his eye on that place, and defendeth it, and hee beateth and destroyeth [Page 132] thē that come to hurt it. For The Earle of Salisburie in in answer to certaine scanda lous Papers page, 20, et. 21 as (to vse the words of one of our worthie Nobles) where this prodigious Massacre should haue beene committed, is the same place where the ancient Religion of the pri­mitiue Church, shooke off the bondes and fetters of the Romane corruption vnder which it had long continued in seruitude: so whiles the same faith shall be religiously and constantly professed, it shal neuer bee in the power of mortall man, to shake the least corner stone of that blessed and sure foundation.

But what store of powder had they prouided, to haue it blowne it vp withall?

They had (as I am crediblie informed) prouided thirtie sixe barrels of powder, a thousand of billets, and fiue hundred of faggots, besides many huge stones, yron crowes, pikeaxes, and hammer heads.

What Machiavelians, or rather Matchlesse villaines were these? What dogged dogges? what bloodthirstie Neroes? what bloody minded Ioabs? who would euer thinke, that the affections of men could be steeled with such crueltie and barbaritie? And who would euer imagine, that the sonnes of men, cold be thus sauage, and haue such sanguina­rie conditions? But why do I tearme them men? I am deceiued, they haue the faces of men indeede, [Page 133] but the mindes of wilde beasts. And why doe I call them the sonnes of men? the rockes surely fathe­red them, and they sucked not the daughters of men, but the dragons in the wildernesse. The dra­gons in the wildernesse? No, they are more sauage then Dragons. Woe worth their treason: it is the vnnaturallest that euer was heard of; I would giue it an epithite if there were any to expresse it. And thus I leaue them, wishing that they might bee drawne on hurdles from the prison to the executi­on, to shew how they haue beene drawn by brutish affections: that their priuities might be cut off, & throwne into the fire, to shewe that they were vn­worthie to be begottē, or to beget others: that their bellies might be ripped vp, & there harts torne out, & thrown into the same fire as being the fountain of such an vnheard of treacherie; that their bodies, hauing harboured such wicked hearts might be cut off from their heads and diuided into manie quar­tars, as they were in the bodie politique diuided by treason, from the head and other sound members: and that their quarters might bee fixed vppon the gates of our Cities, and exposed to the eyes of men: that as their nefarious attempts were an euil example to others, so their quartered Limmes might be a heedfull caueat to others. But to pro­ceede by whome should this powder haue beene set on fire?

By Guido Fawkes their Sentinell: for when [Page 134] hee was taken, there were founde three mat­ches, and all other instrumentes fitte for blowing vp the powder in the vault, readie vpon him.

What a vile miscreant was this; what a villaine in a vault? what a Machiauellian with a match? what a blood-sucker without a match? did Caligula his predecessor match him? no; for hee was but Lutū sanguine maceratum. dirt soken with blood; but this woulde haue beene dirt swimming in bloode. Did Caligula himselfe match him? no: for hee but wished that the people of Rome had all one necke, that at one blowe hee might haue cut them off; but this runnagate of Ephraim not onely wi­shed it, but contriued it, and was readie with his matches, to haue giuen vs all at once a terrible blow. Nay, did the Diuell match him? no: for though hee caused the house to fall vppon Iobes children: yet Iob, 1, 19. left hee one aliue to tell Iob: But this more then diuelish varlet had thought to haue blowne vp all at once, and not to haue left one to escape, to haue told who hurt them. Fie Gui­do, fie: art thou so farre from being (according to the anciēt exiled prouerb) homini deus, as that thou art worse then homini daemon? how art thou fallen from thy kind, and become so degenerate & wild? hath the Pope (whome you commonly call your holy father, and sometimes your Papa est deus vindictae R, Cu­pres de eccles, pag. 61, num Papa ae (que) as Christus deus est extrau, in Iohan, 22. Lord GOD) taught thee this? Qualis, malum, deus iste est qui tam impuros exse filios et seeleratos genuit? si pater Benzo in hist. Ind. [Page 135] filiorum similis, minime profecto bonum esse oportet. What kind of God, with a mischife; is this, that hath begotten such impure and wicked sonnes? If the father be like the chrildren, there can bee no goodnesse in him.

Sir, what meane you, to speake thus sharp­ly against our holy father, and his Children, how dare you speake thus of him, that is Peters suc­cessour at Rome, and Christ Vicar vppon earth? and who Nou minus authoritatis a Christo colla­tum est Vicario suo, ad ouium tutelam et com modum, quam a villico datur Mercenario qui pecora pas cit. Tosterus Apol, pro port. 1. En­chirid. pag. 64, hath no lesse authoritie ouer all Christi­ans, giuen him of Christ whose Vicar hee is, then an hireling hath ouer bruite beasts.

If his holinesse haue intelligence hereof, hee will surely excommunicate you, and it will bee lawefull for any CATHOLIKE to Heretici. filij vel Cōsanguinei non dicuntur, sed iuxta legē sit manus super cos, vt fundas sanguinē ipsorum. A­pud Grat. glossa in Decret. lib, 5, ex decret, Gregor, 9. caus, 23. quaest, 8. cap. legi, kill you Nos excōmu­nicamus vni­uersos haereti­cos, vt absoluts se nouerint om nifidelitatis de­bito, qui ijs iu­ramento tene­bantur astricti. Gregorius, 9. lib. 5. Decret [...], tit. 7. cap, 5, glossa,

A Figge for him, and his excommunications; I care no more for him then Charles the fift, who beeing menaced by Pope PAVLVS the third, with excommunication, if he would not [Page 136] yeeld vp Physance into his handes, answered thus: let him vnderstand by his Embassadours, that if he will needes be thundering out of his excommuni­cation, I will thunder at Saint Angelo with my Canons and attilerie. In like manner say wee to you, let him vnderstand by those that flie to a forraine nest after the Partiche hath bred there, that if hee will needes thunder out his excom­munication against vs Protestants that layes open his Antichristian pride, wee will batter the verie Walles of Babylon with the Canon of Scrip­ture.

And to giue him a warning peale, if the Pope (bee as you say hee is) the Vicar of Christ, hee should giue you that Math, 22 21. Marke. 12. 17. Luke. 20 25. thrise recounted precept of Christ: Giue vnto CAESAR the thinges which are CAESARS: and giue vnto GOD the thinges which are GOD'S: But the Pope giueth you not that precept, but this in­steade thereof: Giue vnto mee, the things which are CEASARS, and giue vnto mee also the thinges which are GODS. For the first; hee saith in effect, giue vnto me the things which are CEASARS, when hee vide Antoni­um in Sum part 3. tit. 22, cap. 5. chalengeth an Vniuer­sall Dominion and soueraigntie ouer the whole WORLD, not onely ouer Ecclesiasticall persons, as Bishoppes and other inferiour Mini­ster, but also ciuill, as Emperours, and Kinges; for this Vniuersall Dominion appertaineth not vnto him, neither did the Ancient Bishops [Page 137] of Rome euer chalenge it, as may appeare by these arguments.

1 Had this Vniuersall Soueraintie appertained to the ancient Bishoppes of Rome, or had beene chalenged by them, then it is verie likely; that the ancient fathers would haue made mention therof: but the ancient fathers are so far from men­tioning of it, as that they mention the quite con­trarie. Chrysoft. ad Popul. Antioch, homil. 2. Imperator (saith Chrysostome) parem vl­lum super terram non habet. The Emperour hath noe peere on earth. And before him Tertullian: Tertull, ad Scapulam. colimus imperatorem vt hominem a deo secundum, et solo Deo minorem: wee reuerence the Emperour as next vnto GOD, and inferi­our onely to GOD. With them both agrea­eth, Optatus; Optatus con­tra Parmenian. lib. 3. super imperatorem non est, nisi solus deus qui fecit imperatorem: none is aboue the Emperour, but onely God, who made the Emperour.

2 Vide Euseb: de vita Constant. lib, 3. cap, 23, et lib, 4, cap, 42, et Socrat. lib. 1 cap, 34, Cōstantine, vide Euagriū lib. 4, cap, 9 Iustinus, Vide Nouel, constit 123, Iustinian, vide Sozomen, lib. 7, cap, 9, et Concil, Chal­cedon, Act. epist. Theodosij et Valentiniani ad Dioscorum Theodosus Vide. Theodoret. lib, 4, cap, 8. Va­lentinian, Vid, lib, 1, Legum Franciae, cap, 76, Charles, & other ancient Emperours, claimed a Soueraintie ouer the Bishoppe of Rome, and other Bishoppes of that age; yea they exercised this their soueraintie, and shewed themselues to be their superiours, by their com­manding of them in causes ecclesiasticall; and that they did not vsurpe in this case, Saint Austen plainely sheweth in his 162, Epistle.

[Page 168]3 Vide Aug, e­pist, 166. Constantine, Vide nouel, constit, 123. Iustinian, Vide Euagriū lib, t, cap, 12 Theodosius Vide Theodo ret; lib, 5, cap, 2. Gratianus, Vide Cod, lib 1, titul, 3, de E­pise et cler. cap, si quenquam. Anthemius & the rest of the ancient Emperours, shewed their authoritie to bee farre greater then the authoritie of the Bishops of Rome and other Bishops in their times; not onely by commanding of them, but also by correcting of them for their offences, and by their appointing of penalties to bee imposed on them that did not yeeld obedience to their imperiall lawes and con­stitutions.Caus, 2, quaest 7. cap. nos si.

4 The Ancient Bishops of Rome were so farre from claiming a superiority ouer the Emperours in their times, as that they did prostrate themselues at their feeete, and became suppliants vnto them, and that about Church-matters. As for example, Leo the 4. submitted himselfe, and became an humble suppliant to ^r Ludouicus, Distinct, to, cap, de capitu­lis. Lotharius, Leo epist, 9, et epist. 24 Theodosius, that Councels of Bishop might bee called, and controuersies decided.

5 The ancient Bishops of other Sees were so farre from acknowledging the Bishop of Rome, to haue any Soueraigntie ouer the Emperour in their dayes, as that they did not acknowledge them to be their Superiours, but their fellow Bishops onely: as maye easilie bee gathered out of the wri­tinges of Cyprian. de Simplicitate Clericorum et in Sententijs Episc, Cyprian, Chrysoft. in homil, 43. in Math. cap. 23 Chrysostome, Hieron, in e­pist. ad Eua griū Hierom, Euseb, li. 5. c, 20 Eusebius and Concil. Car thag. 6. et Concil African, cap 92, et cap, 105 et Galfred, monumetens, lib, 8 cap, 4. others; yea Boniface the 3. was the first that chalenged to himselfe the name of vniuersall Bishop, as hereafter (God willing) shall be plainly shewed, I come now to the second part [Page 169] of the fore-named precept.

That the Pope saith in effect, giue vnto mee the thinges which are Gods: I proue it by these particulars.

1 Because hee chalengeth to himselfe infinite knowledge, and suffereth his Canonists to giue vnto him an Decret Gre got. lib, 1, tit. 7 cap. 5 heauenly arbitrement, and (as it were) a diuine and infallible iudgement: yea to say, that he is a Cornelius E­pisc, Bitoni in orat. habit in Concil, Tridēt. sub Paulo tertio. light come into the worlde, but men haue loued darknesse more then light.

2 Because hee chalengeth to himselfe infinite power, and suffereth himselfe to be called Ecce venit Leo de tribu Iudah Simon Beg nius Epist, Mo­drusae in Cōcil. Laterani sub Leone decimo. Leo­nem de tribu Iuda, the Lyon of the Tribe of Iudah: and to haue ascribed vnto him Vide Concil Lateran sess. 10 in orat Stephā, Patracensi 10 power aboue all powers in heauen and in earth: yea, Papa, excepto peccato potest quasi ommia facere, quae po­test Deus. Pa­norm ex Hosti­ens, Extrau, de Translat, Praelat. cap, quanto, in glossa. power to be able to do all things that God can do, except sinne onely.

3 Because hee suffereth himselfe to bee called Papa est causa causarum, et non est de eius potestate quaerendum, cum primae causae nulla sit causa Bald. in c. eccles, vt lite pendente, causam causarum, the cause of causes, which title the verie heathen Arist, 2, Metaph. cap, 1. Philosophers knew to be pro­per to God.

4 Because hee suffereth himselfe to bee called Cupres de eccles. pag. 61, num, 52 kRomans. 13, 19. Deum vindictae, the God of reuenge: which title God doth appropriate to himselfe, saying, ^k ven­geance is mine: I will repay.

[Page 186]5 Because he suffereth your Canonists to call him Lorde God, euen in that newe Impress, Lug­duni anno Dom. 15 55. edi­tion which by the authoritie of Pope Gregorie the 13. was corrected and published. Their wordes are these: Extrau, de maior, et obe­dientia. credere Dominum Deum nostrum papam, conditorem dictae decretalis, et istius, non sic potuisse statuere prout statuit, hae­reticum censeatur: To beleeue that our Lorde God the Pope the author of this, and the afore­saide decretale, could not decree; as, hee hath de­creed, it ought to be iudged hereticall.

6 Because hee is said to be Extrau in Iohan 22. ac Christus Deus, ens secundae intentionis, A GOD as well as CHRIST, and a being of the second intenti­on.

7 Because hee looketh to be feared of men as much as God, yea more then God as appeareth by the complaint of Frederick the second: Fredericus 2. epist. ad Othou, Bauar. ducem, apud Aventinum, l. 7 Pa­pae affectant dominationem et diuinitatem, at (que) vt ab hominibus haud imo magis quam Deus ti­meatur: Popes affect Lordshippe and diuinitie, and that they may be feared of men no otherwise than God, yea, more then God.

8 Because he taketh vpon him to commaund the Angels of heauen; for so wee read, that Cle­ment the 6. in his bull concerning those that should come to Rome to celebrate the iubiley, Prorsus mā ­damus Angelis Paradisum &c. Clement. 6, in Bulla de Iubil, [...] commanded the Angels, that if any one shoulde die in that iorney, they should bring their soules, being wholy freed from Purgatorie, into the glory [Page 781] of Paradise.

9 Because he maketh his owne decrees, con­stitutions, and traditions, of equall authoritie to the sacred word of God, and enioyneth men to re­ceiue and honour them Concil, Tri­dent. sess. 4. Pari pietatis affectu ac­reuerentia, with as great affection of pietie and re­uerence, which iniunction a certaine Iacobus Na­chiantes Clo­diae fossae Episcopus Magister sacri palatij Romae, ad legatos Bohemicos sub Felice Papa pag. 144 Bishop in the Tridentine Counsell, misliked, but hee was therefore expelled out of the Counsell, by the Popes Legate.

10 Because he suffereth the maister of his pal­lace,Quitacet consentire videtur. to giue vnto him (hee not ^r gainesaying it) power to Siluester Priereas, contra Luther, Conclus, de Potestate Papae. change the holy Gospell, and to giue vnto the Gospell, according to place and time, an othersense.

11 Because he suffereth another maister of his pallace, to sauerre, that the authoritie of the Church and Pope of Rome, is greater, then the authoritie of the Scripture.

12 Because he taketh vpon him, to abrogate the law of God, yea, to George Douly leaueth the [...] cōmandement quite out, in his rehearsal of the cōmandeméts See his plaine instruction, or rather his destruction. take the second comman­dement quite out of the decalogue and to Idem, S, 8 di­uide the last commandement into two, against all reason, and Vide Origen. homil, 8, in Exod. Chrysost. homil, 49, in Math, et Athanasiū in synopsi scripturarum antiquitie.

13 Because he taketh vpon him, to Vide Extrau. commun. lib, 5. tit, 9. cap, 4. Paulum Aemilium lib, 7 Orat. Innocent. 22. in com. Suffrag. fol. 132. pro defunctis et, Balaeum in vita Leonis. 10. forgiue sinnes, which is a proper action of the God-head, as the very Marke. 2. 7. Scribes denied not.

[Page 182]14 Because hee suffereth his Canonists to giue vnto him, a potestas in diuiois leges ordinare in Romano pontifice residet. Michael Modina in chri­stian. para naesi. lib, 7, cap. 17, power ouer the lawes of God, yea to dispense Distinct, 38, lector, et dist. 8 7. presbyter▪ against the Apostle, and Felin. de con­stit. cap, statut; Canonum; against the whole new restament also. Nowe (to wound them with their owne quilles) Antonin part. 3 tit. 22. cap. 6 inpraecepto su­perior is non debet dispensare inferior, the inferi­our may not dispense with the commandement of the superiour.

By these particulars it appeareth not onely that the Pope chalengeth those thinges which are Gods, but that hee aduanceth himselfe aboue God, and sheweth himselfe that he is God▪ and so consequently, that hee is that man of sinne, that sonne of perdition and that aduersarie, prophecied of by Saint Paul: 2. Thess. 2.

But to come vnto the second title which you giue vnto the Pope; if the Pope bee (as you say hee is) the successour of Peter, then should hee teach you with Peter, Pet, 2, 13, 14. to submit your selues vnto all manner of ordinance of man for the Lordes sake, whether it bee vnto the King, as vnto the superiour, or vnto gouernours, as vnto them that are sent of him. But the Pope tea­cheth you, not to submit your selues to your Soueraine, but to murther your Soueraigne, and to take armes against them. Volumus et iubem us vt ad uersus Elizabetham Angliae reginam subditi arma capessant. Bulla Pij Quinti. We will & com­mand (said that impious Pope Pius) subiects of [Page 173] England to ^z take armes against Elizabeth the Queene: William Parrie (sayde See Cardinall Comos letter before allead god. Pope Gregorie the 13) shall receiue merit in heauen, is hee canne make away his Soueraigne: yea See the de­fence of English Catholikes. c 5 subiects (say the defenders of our English Catholikes) may take their Soueraignes, and hange them vp vpon gib­bets against the sunne, and to proue this, they alledge Numbers 25. 4. The Lorde saide to Moses take all the heades of the people and hang them vp before the Lord against the sunne. But if these defenders were not more then blinde, they would perceiue this their treacherous illation to bee erroneous: for first, the Lord commanded this reuenge to be taken; and secondly, the Magistrate was appointed to bee the reuenger. They doe therefore erroneously and treacherously inferre vppon this, that subiects may hange vppe their Soueraignes, seeing that subiectes are noe soue­raigne Rulers; and haue also a straite comman­dement from the Lorde, Psal, 105, 15 not to touch his an­nointed. Yea, this place is so farre from making for you, as that indeede it maketh much against you, for seeinge that you are idolaters, it may heare bee gathered, that his highnesse may law­fully take the chiefe of you, and hange you be fore the Lorde against the sunne, as Moses did the chiefe idolatrous Israelites. Nay, it is (in all humilitie be it spoken,) his bounden duetie to doe it: for (as saith saint Cyprian alleadginge this verie precept, and Deut, 13▪ 9 another of the same [Page 174] Communis iuris. nature) Cyprian in li­bello de Exhor tatione mar­tyrij▪ si ante aduentum Christi, circa deum co­lendum, et idola spernenda haec praecepta seruata sunt, quanto magis post aduentum Christi seruan­da sunt?

But to returne againe to your Romish Canni­bals ^r: what was the cause that mooued them, to attempt the murthering of the kings maiestie and the whole Senate of the Parliament?

Truely they are thereunto mooued (as both Guido, Fawkes, and Thomas Winter See their cō ­sessions. con­fessed, onely for Religion and conscience sake; they are therefore (me thinkes) more to bee borne withall.

They are neuer a whitt the more to bee borne withall: for it is not lawfull for subiects, to attempt the murthering of their Soueraigne for religion sake, or for any other pretence soeuer. Goe with Cresset and Torch light throughout the whole booke of God, and throughout the spacious vo­lumes of the Ancient fathers, and tell me whether any priest high or low, or Leuite, Prophet, Euange­list, Apostle, auncient Father, euer hath taught, counsailed, and much lesse practised the like, I saie not againste lawfull magistrates, but tyrannous rulers, and such as were by the expresse sentence [Page 175] of God reprobated. To produce a few examples, Ieroboam was an Idolatrous king, & 1. Reg, 12, 28 29. made two calues of gold; and set the one in Bethel, and the other in Dan, neuerthelesse the man of God that came out of Iudath albeit hee 1. Reg, 13 reprehended the king, and foretold him the ruine of his Realme: yet did he not perswade any of his subiects to murther him, or any forraigner to make warre against him. King Ahab 1. Reg, 16, 3 [...] ▪ walked in the sinnes of Ieroboam the sonne of Nebat, and tooke Iezabel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Zidonians to wife, and went and serued Baal, and worshipped him.

And the Lordes Prophets were so euill intrea­ted in his time, as that they were 1, Reg, 18, 4 hid in caues an hundreth in one caue, and an hundreth in an other, and there fedde with bread and water. Yea some of them were slaine by Iezabell. Notwithstandingr 1, Reg, 18, 18 all this Eliiah the chiefe Prophet of that time, al­beit hee reproued AHAB, because hee hadde forsaken the commandementes of the LORD, and hadde serued Baalim: Yet did hee not incite any to murther either the KING, or the QVEENE.

In the time of the Prophet Isaiah, the Princes were so wicked, as that he cried out against them, saying: Esay, 1, 23, 24 Thy Princes are rebellious and compa­nions of theeues, euerie one loueth giftes, and followeth after rewardes, they iudge not the fa­therlesse, neither doth the widdowes cause come before thē. Therfore saith the lord God of Hostes [Page 176] the mightie one of Israel: Ah, I will ease mee of mine aduersaries, and auenge mee of mine ene­mies. Verse 26 And I wil restore thy iudges as at the first, and thy Counsailours as at the beginning. Thus did the holy Prophet complaine of the exactions of the Princes, shewed them their faults, admo­nished them of Gods vengeance, & foretold them of their restoring of the good iudges▪ and counsai­lours: hee did not animate, encourage, and incite the people to auenge themselues of their princes, and to lift vp armes against them, as the Pope doth.

The Prophet Amos also noteth the vices of the Princes in his time, and calleth them the Amos 4, 1, kine of Basan, which oppressed the poore and destroyed the needie. The Prophet Micha taxeth them, for Mich, 3, 2 plucking off the skinnes of the people, and their flesh from their bones. And the Prophet Zephan. 3▪ 3 Zepha­niah calleth them roaring Lyons, and their iudges rauening woolues: all which titles giue sufficient testimonie, that the Rulers & iudges in their times were verie wicked men, and such as did grind the saces of their subiects. And yet all this notwith­standing they did not aduise the subiects to mu­tinie or rebell against their Princes.

Yea the captiue Iewes in Babylon, were so farre from seeking to take away the life either of Nabu­chodonosor the king of Babilon, or of Balthasar his sonne, as they wrote to their brethren at Ierusa­lem, to Baruch, 1, 11 pray for the life of Nabuchodonosor King of Babylon, and for the life of Balthasar his sonne [Page 177] that their dayes might bee vpon earth, as the daies of heauen, and that God would giue thē strength, & lighten their eyes, &c. And answearable hereunto is that aduise which the Prophet Ieremie gaue the captiues in the 29 of his prophecie, thogh in words somewhat different, Ierem, 29, 7, seeke the prosperitie of the Citie, whether I haue caused you to be caried away captiue; and pray vnto the Lorde for it: for in the peace thereof shall you haue peace,

But to come nearer Christs time, Iohn Baptist the forerunner of Christ, saw in his time Herode Idu mean. a counter faite Iewe vsurping the Realmes of Galilee and Iurie; and knewe well inough that the Romanes were Gentiles and idolaters; and that they had depriued the people of Israell of their libertie, and vniustly brought them to be tributarie vnto them: And yet notwithstanding, when the Luk, 2, 14 souldiers demanded of him, saying, what shall we doe? hee sayde vnto them, do violence to no man &c, hee saide not, reuolt against the Empire, or take armes against the Romanes. Yea albeit, hee knewe that his death was plotted by Herodias; yet did hee not animate his disciples to murther her or Herod, neither practised hee any meane to escape, but submitted his necke to the excutioner.

And to come to Christ himselfe, hee was so far from blowing vpp houses with powder, and from making a fierie massacre of those that were not of his religion, as that hee Luk, 9, 59 reproued the wish of saint lames and Saint Iohn, who desired that fire might come downe from heauen, and consume the Sa­maritans [Page 178] because they receiued him not. And he was so farre from making Princes to pay tribute to him, as that hee Math. 17. 27 payed tribute himselfe, and be­ing demanded whether it were lawefull to pay tri­bute or no, hee answered thus: Math. 22. 21 giue vnto Caesar that which is Caesars. Yea, when the officers of the Iewes tooke him and bound him, hee forbad Peter to vse the sword, saying: Iohn 18, 11, put vp thy sworde in the sheath. Hee saide not to Peter, as Catesby saide to Winter: See Thomas Winters confe­ssion. stad by mee Tom, and wee will die together.

There was also great difference betweene the Disciples of Christ, and the Disciples of Antichrist, for wee reade, that when Saint Peter was held pri­soner by King Herode, there was earnest prayerh Act. 12 5 made of the Church vnto God for him; and not any Iesuiticall plot laid by them, thereby to deliuer him, yea he enioyned the Church to Pet. 2. 17 honour their king. To omit the rest, S. Paule exhorteth Timothy to mak 1. Tim 2, [...]. supplicatiōs, prayers, intercessiōs, & giuing of thanks for all men, for Kings &c. albeit such as raigned in his time were Pagans & idolaters. And agreeable herunto was the practise of the primitiue Church, as Tertullian plainly sheweth; Ter tull. Apol. cap. 30. Nos (saith hee, describing the prayers which the olde Christi­ans of their loyall affections made for their heathē gouernours) precamur pro omnibus imperatori­bus vitam prolixam, imperium securum, domum tutam exercitus fortes, populum probum, orbem quietum: wee pray for all Emperours, that God would bestow vpon them a long life, a peaceable gouernment, a safe pallace, strong armies, obedient [Page 179] subiects, and a quiet world. To which let vs adde the practise of S. Ambrose, who, when Valentinian required him to yeeld his Church, answered thus; Ambros, lib. 5, Epist 32. with my consent I wil neuer forgoe my right. If I be compelled, I haue noe way to resist: I can sorow, I can weepe, I can sigh, teares are my weapons; &c. In a word, *you neither carrie (as a The Earle of Salisbury in his late answere to certaine seanda­lous papers pag. 11, et 12. noble Beraean hath well noted) the markes of Rome heathen, nor of Rome Christian; for vnder heathen Emperours the victories were scorned, which were barbarously gotten, mixtis veneno fontibus: And when Rome was pure and primitiue, you shall finde the armes of the Church were teares and prayers. But now their Oracles are so farre degenerate from the for­mer puritie of that ancient Church, as they make murther spirituall resolution, and openly threaten the liues of Kings that are Gods breathing images; When the prophet Dauid trembled to violate the skirt of King Saules garment.

To make vse hereof these ancient Romans shal in iudgement rise against you, & condemne you; for they conspired not the death of Pagans, Infidels, & tyrāts, that made hauocke of the church of god; but you wish & watch to destroy the most christiā king, to ouerturn the litle world of his dominiō, to shake the pillars therof with mutinies & seditions, & reple nish it with worse then Catilinarie conspiracies.

Sir, although some of vs haue wished & watched to destroy the king; yet al of vs haue not: you must not condemne al for some.

Sir, I condemne you not all; but I condemne the [Page 180] religion of you all: for your religion bindeth you all to attempt the like. Populus Christianus (saithm Creswell. in suo [...]pilopat [...]r pag, 201 one of your seducers) obsistere tenetur conscientiae vinculo arctissimo, et extremo animarum pericu­lo; si praestare rem possit, Christian people are strictly bound in conscience, and hazard of their soules, to make the like resistance, if that they bee able to performe it. And, excusandi sunt Angli (saith an other) qui non se eximunt ex superiorum potestate, necbellum contra eos gerunt; quia non suppetunt illis vires, the English Catholikes, whon Bannes in 20 28. Thom. quaest. 12. art, 2 exempt not themselues from the power of their superiours, and who wage not warre againste the Protestantes in that Land, are in some sort to be excused because they haue not sufficient po­wer.

Out of these wordes of Bannes and Creswell, I gather these two thinges.

1 That your religion bindeth you all to play the traytours, and to take vppe armes against your countrey.

2 That the reason why you doe not take armes against your countrey, is onely because you haue not power sufficient to match vs: for had you suf­ficient power, your Romish Doctours would hold you inexcusable, if you did it not. You may there­fore fitly be compared to serpents, which maye bee handled, whilst the cold hath benummed them; but when they are warmed, they wil hisse out their venemous poyson. My meaning is no mysterie: if you bee harboured a while longer in the bosome [Page 181] of this common wealth, you will in time get such warmth, & become of such a cōpetent strength, as that you will be able to match vs, if not ouermatch vs.

But I doubt not, but that his Maiestie and the state will looke to this betimes, and not nurse vppe Lyons whelpes for their owne ouerthrow, as A­milcar brought vppe his sonnes for the ruine of Rome.

I will therefore leaue you to the iustice of his Maiestie and the state, who know wel enough, that it behoneth wise Princes (as a great The Earle of Salisbury in his late answere to certaine scanda­lous papers pag: 10▪ states-man hath well obserued) to keepe downe faction, which is euer humble till it get the key of power. And nowe let me intreate you, to conferre with me about some point of Religion.

I will conferre with you no longer,

Why will you not?

Because you are (to vse Doctor Hardings tearme) a Harding in his confession foll. 222. Turkish Hugenote.

A Turkish Hugenote? Sir, if you will vouchsafe [Page 182] to conferre with me a while, I will proue that you are Turkish and not wee.

Are Romane Catholickes Turkish?

Yes, as may appeare by these Semblances which I haue obserued betwixt them and you.

The Turkes at this day, for all that Sozom. lib. 6 cap, 38, histories make plaine mention, and themselues also cannot deny, but that they tooke their first beeginning from Agar the bond woman: yet for the very name and stockes sake, they chuse rather to be called Saracens, as though they came of Sara the free woman. So you, although you bee (as I haue formerlie proued) abominable heretickes; yet do you chalenge this ti­tle to be called Catholickes. But This surname Catholique was not vsed in the Apostles time. Biblioth, sacra tom 3. ad Sym­pronian. Noua­tion. de Cathol. nomine Epist. 1 sub Apostolis (as saith Pacianus an ancient father) nemo Catholicus vocabatur, vnder the Apostles noe man (though Baronius saith the contrarie) was called Catholi­que.

And albeit, cum post Apostolos, haeresesd Annalium eom 1, pag, 3. 9 extitissent, diuersisque nominibus columbam Dei at­quee This surname Catholicke was vsed after the Apostles time and that by the Apostolicke people▪ Pacian. ibid. reginam lacerare per partes, & scindere niteren­tur, cognomen suum plebs Apostolica postulabat, quo incorrupti populi distingueret vnitatē, neinte­meratam Dei virginem, error aliquorum per mem­bra laceraret, when after the Apostles there were heresies, and men beganne to rend in peeces and di­uide [Page 183] Gods Doue and Queene, by sundrie different names; the Apostolike people required their sur­names, whereby they might distinguish the vnitie of the vncorrupt people, least the errour of time, should rend in sunder Gods vndefiled Virgin: yet see I no reason, why you should require the same Surname which the Apostolike people did, seeing that you embrace not that doctrine which they main tained, but the heresies which they condemned, as I shewed you at large in our first, seconde, and thirde dayes conference.

But it is no maruaile, to here you entitle your con­gregations by the name of the Catholicke Church: for (as saith Lactantius) This surname Catholique was, and is cha­lenged by here tickes. Singnli quique haereticorum coetus se potissimum Christianot & suam esse catholicam ecclesiam putant: euerie conuenticle of heretickes do imagine themselues to be true Christians, and their Church the Catholicke Church. But I proceede to another Semblance.

The Turkes (as I haue shewed alreadie) called themselues Saracens, of Sara: so doe some of your Popish Friers call themselues Franciscans of saint Francis; and others call themselues Dominicans of Saint Dominicke; for which cause wee may iustly holde you to bee the synagogue of Antichrist: for (as an ancient Hieron. ad­vers. Luciferia [...] father saith) si cubi audieris eos qui di­euntur Christiani, non a Domino Iesu Christo, sed a qu [...]quā alionuncupari, puta Marcionitas, Valentinianes, Mon­tenses, Campates, scito non ecclefiam Chisti, sed Antichristi esse synagogam, whensoeuer thou shall here those, that are called Christians not to haue their name from our Lord Iesus Christ, but from some other, as Mar­cionites, Valentinians, Montenses, Campates, know [Page 184] thus much, that they are not the Church of Christ, but the synagogue of Antichrist. Wee may also for the same cause, holde you to bee carnall 1 Cor, 3 4, for when one saith, I hold of Paul, and another, I hold of Apollos, are ye not carnall?

By succession the Turke at this day possesseth and holdeth the 4: great Patriarkal Sees of the Churches of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Ierusalem, which were once sanctuaries of Religion, and pla­ces of greatest faith and deuotions: so by succession the Pope chalengeth at this day the See of Rome, which was once (I denie not) the eye of the west, and the anchor of true pietie.

Albeit the Church of Rome was once the eye of the west, and the true Chuch of God; yet fell shee away from God into idolatrie and Apostasie, about the yeare of our Lord 607. for in the yeare 602, did Gregorie the first (who was the last true and godly Bishop of Rome) In lib. 6. Epist 30. auouche this solemnely as a manifest truth, that whosoeuer did take to himselfe the name of vniuersal Bishop, the same was Antichrist. Now fiue yeares after, viz: in the yeare 607. did Bo­niface the third (who was the first Antichristian Bi­shop of Rome) take vnto himselfe the title of vniuer­sall Bishop, and since him all his successours haue taken vnto them the same Antichristian title.

Now as this Antichristian Pope arose in the Wes­terne Churches in the yeare of our Lord 607. So did Mahomet arise in the Esterne Churches about [Page 185] the same time, as is proued in sundrie Vide Euthy­mium Zigaben. in Elench Isma. elit. Vincentius Beluacens. lib, 23, cap, 39. Breidenbachi­us in hist suae Peregrin. Phi­lippus Lonice­rus, in Turcic. Hist, Laonicus Chalcondilus de rebus Turcicis lib. 3 N [...]uclerus Generat. 22, & Danaeus in Auguit, de hae­res, cap. 96, bookes extant to the view of the word.

It is true indeede, that Mahomet arose in the Easterne Churches, about that time, in the raigne of the Emperour Heraclius: but I denie that there arose vp any Antichristian Pope in the westerne Churches about the same time.

Well, to make it most euidently appeare vnto you; the aforesaide vaine glorious Bonifacius▪ tertius▪ prelate, in the yeare 607. beganne to dispute, that Rome was alwaies the Ladie of the whole World: and therefore that it was meete that the Bishoppe of that Citie should goe before other Bishoppes in degree and digni­tie.

Now to attaine this, was a thing most difficult: for albeit that the Emperour did let it slippe; yet did the Bishoppes of other nations confidently gainsay him alleadging lawfull causes why they withstood him: vnwilling to acknowledge the Bishop of Rome, otherwise then for a brother, companion and in power equall with them. Notwithstanding all this, the said Maleface of Rome desisted not but continu­ally vrged to attaine vnto his purpose, vntill hee had by manie requestes and gifts obtained of wicked Phocas the Emperour (who murthered his Maister the Emperour Mauritius and his children, to come to the Empire, and was after slaine himselfe by Heraclius that succeeded him) that hee might [Page 186] be called the head of the Catholicke and vniuersall Church, or the oecumenicall and vniuersall Bishop. which title of blasphemie, when as Iohn the Patri­arke of Constantinople hadde chalenged not long beefore, viz. about the yeare 602. Pope Gregorie Fidenter dico quod quisqui [...] se vniuersalem sacerdotem vocat vel vocari desiderat, in ela tione sua Anti­christum prae­currit, Greg. lib, 6, epist, 30 affirmed confidently that therein he was the fore­runner of Antichrist: that the Rex, superbiae prope est, et quod dici ne­fas est, sacer do tum ei praepa­ratur exercitus Greg, lib, 4, epist, 38 king of pride (mea­ning Antichrist) was then at hand, and had an army of priestes (thereby insinuating that hee should bee the Prince of priestes) prepared for him. Nowe the Pope is your Prince of Priestes, (for so Cardinall Bellarm. de Pontif. Rom, lib, 2, cap, 38 Bellarmine calleth him) who farre exceedeth Iohn of Constantinople, in all Antichristian pride; cha­lenging a soueraigne and vniuersall authoritie not onely aboue all other Bishops and Priestes, but also aboue all Princes and Potentates.

By this then it appeareth, that the Church of Rome did then become Antichristian, when the said Pope Boniface tooke vnto him and his successours the ti­tle of Vuiuersall and Catholike Bishop. And about the same time (as hath beene shewed) did Maho­met arise in the Esterne Churches. I proceed nowe to other Semblances.

This Mahomet was an Arabian and an Ismaelite,i Vide, Au. Da­naen, in ang, de haeres, cap, 96. and tooke wages of the Emperour Heraclius, to serue him in his warres. And when the Saracens & Arabians reuolted from the Emperour, hee incoura­ged them in their defection, and in this mutinie hee was chosen to bee a commaunder of these Rebels. Thus growing from a seditious souldier, to bee a [Page 187] captaine of a rebellious host, he with his Mahometi­call forces subdued Phaenicia, Palestina, Syria, Mesopotamia, and diuers other countryes. And as for the CHRISTIANS, he made hauocke of them as sundrie writers dooe testi­fie.^g Sophron epist, ad Sergi­um in Synod. 6 Constantinop▪ Act. 11, Zona­ras tom, 3 An­nall. Vincent. Beluacons, lib, 23, Paulus Di­aconus lib, 18 Histor, et Simo neta lib. 1, epist.

Nowe to applie this, as the Saracens were traitours to the Emperour Heraclius, so were the Popes to the Emperours and Princes of Chrystendome: for first the Emperours of Greece by the Popes rebelli­ous opposition against their Soueraigne Lordes, in the vngodly defence of images, were bereaued of their dominions in the west: by which meanes the Empire being rent asunder, waie was made for the Turke. And although at the first, they seemed to honour their newely erected Emperours in the west, 4. whom they created for their owne defence; yet af­terwardes they neuer ceased vntill they had gotten superioritie ouer them. And euer since it hath beene their practise to strengthen and aduance themselues, by weakening and deiecting the Emperour, and all other Christian Princes, as much as they could.

Mahomet Vide vincent lib, 23. cap. 4 1 specal, histor Platinain Bon ifacio. 7 committed many robberies and such like villanies: so we read, that Boniface the 7. (ha­uing gotten the Popedome by ill meanes) robbed Saint Peters Church of all the iewels and pretious thinges hee could find, and so ranne his waies. But to insist in that which is fresh in memory, ther was lately See the dis­course of the late intended treason, pag, 48 one Grāt a Gentlemā who hauing associated vnto him some others of his opiniō, al violēt Papists and [Page 188] Recusants, came to a At warwicke. Stable of one Benocke a ri­der of great horses, and hauing violently broken vp the same, stole out all the great horses that were ther­in, to the number of seauen or eight, belonging to diuers Noble-men and Gentlemen, who had put them into the riders handes to bee made fit for their seruice. But not to speake onely of the robberries of these traitours, it is one of your decrees, made and de­creed amongst the Papists, that Haereticis li­citum est aufer ri quae habent Decret, Papale apud, Grat, caus 15, ^q glossa. it is lawfull to rob Protestants (whome you call Heretickes) of their goods.

Mahomet Vide Vincet. lib, 23, cap, 41 specul, hist. committed many bloodie murthers: and so haue the Popes. To make this plaine by e­numeration of particulars, it is A Ben, Car­dinall. said that Gregorie the 7. poysoned sixe Popes to make himselfe a way to the Papacie, and sought to murther Henry the Emperour as he was at his prayers in the Church Vide Matth Paris in Henric 3.: and that Innocentius the 4 sought to poyson Con­rade the Emperour; There was also a massacre in­tended in the Church of Florence, and Iulianus Me­dices murthered by the Vide Raphael Volateran. et Politian, de con iurat. pact. appointment of Pope Six­tus the 4. Iomit Vrbanus the 6. who Vide Cyprian de Valerain Vrban, 6 put fiue of his Cardinals into sackes, and drowned them, because they fauoured Clement the 7. and Alexander the 6. who commaunded Antonius Mancinellus his tongue, and both his handes to bee cut off, because he made an inuectiue oration against his impure life: and who was so cruell, as that a Zanzarius. famous man of that time an excellent Poet, made these verses of him.

[Page 189]that is, the Roman Bishop, who promised heauen to other men, is gone himselfe to hell, by reason of his villaines and murthers.

I come to Stephanus the 6. and Sergius the 3. who were so barbarously cruell, as that they Vide Martin, Polon, anno 898. et 907, et Platin. in Stephan. 6, et Serg. 3. pulled Formosus their predecessour out of his graue, the one cutting of his fingers, the other his head, and cast his carkasse into Tyber.

And Sixtus the last was (as your owne Quod lib. 3 art, 2, pag, 57 Quodli­betaries report) so full of crueltie, heresie, and villa­nie, as that the Iesuites preached openlie in Spaine against him, It seemes that Pope Sixtus was better then other Popes; o­therwise the Iesuites would not haue railed on him in this sort. railing on him, and calling him a Lu­theran heretike, a wolfe and what not? Yea Car­dinall Bellarmine being asked by one, what hee thought of his death answered thus: Conceptis verbis, quantum capio, quantum sapio, quantum intelligo, descendit ad infernum, as farre as I can perceiue, vnder­stand, and apprehend, our Pope is gone to hell; Loe, this doth Bellarmine write (as it were) vppon the tombe of one of your Popes, as the people of Sicilia wrot (abusing an article of Athanasius creed) vpon the tombe of a cruell Viceroy of theirs, Theatre du monde lib, 2. Hic iacet, &c.

But what doe I insist vpon the immane crueltie of Popes towardes those that are of their owne religi­on? let vs take a viewe of their bruitish immanitie towardes those that are of the contrarie religion, what can I speake of this? nay rather what can I not speake? how hideous are the tormentes that are in­uented by the Pope, and inflicted by his inquisitors vpon Protestantes in forraine Countries.

[Page 190]First Vide Regi­naldum Gon salvium Monta num in detecti­one Inquisit. fol 23, 24, 25, 26. et 27. they commaund an officer, to haue the im­prisoned Protestant into a certaine place where the Racke standeth, which commonlie is a deepe and a darke dungeon vnder the ground, with manie a dore to passe thorowe ere a man can come vnto it, because such as are put thereto, should not be heard to shrike or crie. In the which place there is a scaffold reared, where the Inquisitour, the Prouisor, and the Clearke do sit, to see the anatomie made of him that is brought thitherto.

Then the linkes being lighted, and all the Players entred that haue partes in this Tragedie, the Execu­tioner, who tarieth last to make all fast (as they saie) and to see euerie man in before him, commeth also at the length, and of himselfe alone maketh a shewe worthie the sight, more then all the reste of that route, being wholy arayed all ouer from the toppe of his head, to the sole of his foote in a sute of blacke canvas, such as superstitious people weare on Mandy Thursday when they scourge and whip themselues, as the custome is in most places vnder Poperie, if not in all (much like that apparell which the diuells in stage playes vse here with vs in England) moreouer his head is couered with a long black hoode that reacheth ouer al his face hauing two little peepe holes to see thorow, & al to this end, to make the poore soule the more afraide both in body and minde, to see one torment him in the likenesse of a diuell. After the Lordes be set downe each in their places, they be­ginne with him againe, and exhort him afresh to speake the truth freely and voluntarilie: other­wise at his owne perill bee it. For if either his arme, or his legge, or anye other ioynt bee broken in the racke, as it happeneth to diuers, [Page 191] so that hee chance to die thereof (for more gently then so they meane not to deale with them) let him blame no man but himselfe: for they thinke that after they haue giuen him this faire warning, they are now discharged in conscience both before God & man, & therefore are guiltlesse, what harme soeuer come vn­to him by meanes of the Racke, yea though hee die thereon as innocent as the childe newelie borne.

After this, with sharpe rebukes and men acinge words, they command, that the partie bee stripped starke naked, be it he or she, yea, though it were one well knowne to be the most honest and chast mai­den or matrone in all the Citie (as they bee neuer lightly without sundrie such in this their shambles) whose griefe (no doubt) is not halfe so great in res­pect of any torments, that presently they endure, as it is to beeseene naked in such a presence. But to proceede, when they are stripped naked, they draw on a close linnen breech, and then the Lordes signifie to the tormentor by some token, in what sort they would haue the partie punished: for as their torments be in number many; so in sortes they bee sundrie. But the most vsuall bee the Ieobite, and Pullie with water, cordes and fire. Yet, before they inflict these torments vppon them, they perswade them to vtter whatsoeuer they know either by them selues, or by others of their acquaintance; in the meane space while they are thus commoning with him, one commeth beehinde him, and bindeth his handes with a corde, eight or tenne times about: and be­cause nothing should be thought to bee done with­out authoritie and order of law, the Inquisitour cal­leth vppon him to straine each harder then other: Being thus bound to the Racke, they beginne yet [Page 192] once againe to perswade with him, and beside the binding together of his hands, they also cause his thombes with some smaller line drawne verie straite, and fasten both the lines that tie both his hands and thombes, to a certaine Pullie which hangeth on the Ieobite.

Then knocke they great and heauie boltes vppon his heeles, if the partie haue none alreadie, or els hang betwixt both his feet vppon those boltes which hee hath certaine waightes of yron, at the first time but fiue pounde, and so hoyse him vppe from the grounde: Whiles the poore Protestant hangeth in this plight, they fall to their perswasions once again, cōmanding the hangman to hoyse him vp on high to the verie bcame, till his hands touch the Pullie. Then crieth the Inquisitor and the Clearke vppon him to confesse somewhat. After that hee hath hung a good space, and will grant nothing, they command him to bee let downe, and twice so much yron more to bee layde on his heeles, & so hoyse him vp againe, one inch higher, if it may be; threatning him that hee shall die none other death, excepthee declare vnto them the truth in such matters as they demaund of him, and therefore charge the hangeman to let him vp and downe, that the waight of yron hanging at his heeles, may rent euerie ioynt in his bodie from other. At which intollerable paine, they bid the hangman slippe the ropes suddenly, that hee may fall downe with a swinge, and in the halfe way stop and giue him the Strippado: which being done all his bo­die is out of frame, armes, shoulders, backe, legges, and all the rest of his ioynts, by reason of the sway tearing each part from other. Then (if hee will not then yeeld) they cause more yron to bee added the third time: so that the fiely Protestant beeing halfe dead and more, is by their commaundement hoysed vp againe, and to augement his griefe they then be­ginne [Page 193] to taile vpon him, calling him dogge and here­ticke. And if this pittifull creature do call vpō Christ (as for the most, all that are persecuted for his truth sake doo) then fall they (saith mine Reginaldus Gonsaluius Montanus in loco citato. author) to moc­king of him; saying Iesu Christ, Iesu Christ. Let Iesu Christ alone, and tell vs the truth; what a crying out vpon Christ makest thou? cōfesse what we aske thee, & makevs no more adoe. And herein doth my author verie fitly resemble them to the Iewes that mocked and derided Christ, saying; Math, 27 Beholde hee calleth for Elias. He trusted in God, let him deliuer him nowe, if he will haue him. But to returne to the Tragedie, if the partie be let downe promising to tell them some­what, and performe it indeede, that is the very readie way to make him be worse handled then before, be­cause they thinke that now hee beginneth onely to broch his matters. This horrible butcherie continu­eth from nine of the clocke in the morning till high none or an houre after: which being ended, the Iailer beginneth to play the bone-setter so wel as he can, & to put his armes and legges in their right ioyntes againe: and putting on his clothes, bringeth him back to his prison, or rather carieth him hauing neuer a legge to stand vpon, yea sometime draggeth him by the arms or legs too too pitifully. And within two or three dayes, they send for him foorth againe into the audience, and prouide so, that in the way frō the prisō as he passeth by the place where the racke-stocke standeth, the hangman shall stande for the nonce to shew himselfe in the said likenes of a deuill, that the partie in passing by, may haue a sight of him, and thereby be occasioned the more to remember his former tormentes, who comming into the Court, fin­deth the inquisitour, the Ordinarie, and the Clearke, readie set each man in his place, which after their manner fall in hand with him; [Page 194] at which time, if they cannot get any thing out of him, they cause him to bee caried to prison againe. But if he declare any thing, they presse him the more; and such matter it may bee his happe to disclose, that it may chance to purchase him the racke once more▪ vppon hope of getting some greater matters at his hands. But if they were resolued before, to put the partie to the racke once againe, then about three dayes after his last being there, they sende for him a­gaine to come before them: and what with earnest en­treatie & terrible threates, they labour to haue him shriue himselfe of al his opinions & heresies, (as they call them) and to appeach as well such persons with whom hee hath had conference in such matters, as also all other whom hee knoweth to bee of the same minde. And if the poore Protestant continue con­stant then the keeper is commanded that once again he prouide the rack, and strip him out of his clothes, & put him either to the aforesaid torment or a worse, viz▪ after this manner.

The Protestant hauing his handes bound be­hind him and hanging at the Pullie, they binde both his thighes together with stronge cordes, and so in like manner his legges about the calfe. Then put they betwixt the cordes and his legges a short peece of wood, wherwith they wrest the stringes so stiffe, till they be so deepe suncke into his flesh that they are past sight: a verie extreame and a terrible tormēt & much worse then any that he hath yet endured: In this pittiful plight, the poore soule lyeth for the space of two or three houres, abiding the Inquisitors plea­sures: who neuerthelesse cease not to flout him all this while, orinstead therof they practise as they think best, another kinde of torture, which albeit it be vsed vpō offenders in other places as wel as in that; yet fo [...] one especiall point of crueltie added by them, wee [Page 195] may iustly ascribe it to their holy Court as a deuise of Antichrist. The name of it is Buri or Aselli; and the manner of it is this. There is a great bench made out of whole Timber, wrought hollowe in the vpper part like a trough, so large that a man may lie opē in it on his backe, and thereabouts as his midriffe lyeth, there is a sharp barre going crosse ouerth wart, wher­on the parties backe resteth that it cannot settle to the bottome, because hee should haue no ease: his heeles also lying higher then his heade, and his armes, thighes, and legges, bound with small cords, strained till they settle into the flesh and pierce almost to the very bone, in so much that they beclean out of sight: and then commeth in a new deuise of their own, viz▪ they take a peece of linnen cloth, and ouerspread the parties mouth there with as hee lyeth vpright, so as it may stoppe his nostrels also, that when the water is powred into his mouth, hee should take in no ayre at his nose. Then powre they water vppon the cloth, not by drops, but in the manner of a longe streame, which beareth downe the cloth into the furthest part of his throate: so that when they plucke it out of the bottome of his throate (as manie times they doe,) the cloth is so wet with water and blood together, that a man would thinke the verie intrals come out of his bodie.

To conclude, some are tormented there in another sort, viz: they take a panne full of hote coles, which they set against the soles of Protestants feete, before hee goe to the aforesaide Racke, and to the ende that the fire may haue more force to brusle them, they bast them with lard or bacon.

Loe, here you see, what grieuous torments the Pa­pists vse to bring men to their pretended Catholicke Religion; and yet our Popish Recusants (forsooth) [Page 196] are growne so delicate, that neither religion nor o­bedience may be forced on them: for (the Doctour Hill his quartron of Reasons of Catholick religiō, pag. 182. word be­ing now out of their bloodie hands) they complaine of rigour, and crie out, that wee doe greatly offende God here in England, in forcing people to goe to the Church contrarie to their consciences. But the time was, when they cared little for driuing vs to sinne a­gainst our conscience; the strange torments they de­uised and practised on See Fox. Act. et Mon. lib, 11 Rogers, Sanders, Hooper, Tay­lour, Tomkins, Bradford, Ridley, Latimer, and diuers others of our Countrie men, to compell them from the confessiō of the true Catholick faith without any regard had of their consciences, can witnes the same. Now what reason can they bring that they may en­force others, and none must enforce them?

To conclude, this particular, it appeareth also by [...] Reuel, 17. 6 this Tragedie that the Whore of Babylon is drunken with the blood of Saints, and with the blood of the Martyrs of Iesus. God almightie stirre vp the harts of Christian Princes, that they may not onely hate the saide whore of Babylon, but also (according to the Prophecie of the Holy Ghost) Reuel, 18. 9 Reward her euen as shee hath rewarded the Saints of Iesus, and giue her dou­ble according to her workes: and in the cup that shee hath▪ filled them, fill her the double.

Mahomet was (as sundrie Vincont li, 23 specul, hist, et Zigaben in E­lencho Ismaelit writers testifie) a great Magician, and kept a doue, that reuealed (as hee in­formed the people) sundry things, so were some of your Popes known Necromancers & sorcerers. Toy Vide Cypriā de valera, in Benedict, 9 insist in some particulars, Benedict the 9, alias the 8, was wont in woods and mountaines, to sacrifice to the diuel, & by magical art to allure women vnto him & to make thē follow him vp & down like Cades: he [Page 197] kept also a sparrow that brought him newes from all Quarters. And (as it is in the Spanish prouerbe) Perque de mal Cuerno mal bueno, of an euill Crow an euill egge: for the said Pope Ibidem. had two Cardinalls, namely, Lau­rentius, and Gracianus, that were such Necromancers, as that they knew what passed in the East, West, North,Platina in Syl­uest: 2▪ Sabellic, Enead 9 lib▪ 2, Volateran, lib, 22, Bergomas lib, 12. Iohan. de Pineda part. 3. lib, 19, cap▪ 15▪ Cyprian de Valera in Syluest, 2, and South. And we read in sundry Writers, that Syl­uester the 2. euen from his youth gaue himselfe to in­chantments, and witchcraft; and that (the better to effect his enchauntments) he made a couenant with the Deuill, and be tooke himselfe both body and soule to the Deuill, conditionally; that the Deuill should help him to great preferment: and that by his wicked Art he came first to be Bishop of Rhemes, and afterwards Archbishop of Rauenna, & in the end Pope of Rome. And not to rake any longer in this dunghill of Popes; all the Popes from the saide Siluester to Gregorie the 7. were knowne Necromancers.

Vincentius lib, 23, specul. Hist. Mahomet was a whoremonger, & giuen to all kind of impurity: so haue many of your Popes beene. To begin with Alexander the 6. hee not being contented with other strumpets which he kept, by whom he Vide Onuphrium in Alex and. 6, had quatuor filios, et duas filias, foure bastard sonnes, and two bastard daughters, committed incest with his owne daughter Lucretia, as witnesseth Iohannes Iouinianus Pontanus in his Epitaph vpon Lucretia the daughter of the said Pope. The Epitaph is this.

Pontan, Tumul, lib▪ 2, in tumulo Lucreriae Alexandri filiae▪ Hoc tumulo dormit Lucretia nomine, s [...]dre:

That is; Alexandri filia, sponsa, nurus. Heere lieth Lucretia in name, indeede a shamelesse whore; the daughter of Alexander, her fathers and brothers harlot. Adioine heereunto Paulus the 3, who Sleidan, in Com. committed in­cest with two of his Nices, prostituted one of his si­sters [Page 198] to Alexander the 6. to get a Cardinalship, and poysoned another, because she affected some other of her louers more then himselfe: and who (not staying heere in these vile lusts, which were not yet against na­ture) fell into vnnaturall filthinesse, euen into the sinne of Sodome. Of Sixtus also the 4. it is said, that he was a filthy Sodomite, and that to incite and encourage o­thers to the same filthinesse, hee Agrippa de Vanitate Scient cap. de lenoci­nio. built a sumptuous Stewes in Rome, appointing it to bee both masculine and faeminine, and gaue licence (as 2, Vesselus Groninigensis tract▪ de indul­gent. Gronningensis saith) to the Cardinall of Saint Lucie, and to all his fa­mily, that they might in Iune, Iuly, and August, freely vse Sodomie. And it is Herman Cō ­tract. & Paralip▪ Vrs. perg. recorded, that Clement the fifth was a publique fornicatour, and kept a cer­taine beautifull Countesse as his Paramour. Grego­rie the seauenth Pizarrus in Hist, Gennens. was also very familiar with another Countesse in his time. And Innocentius the eighth was such a common whoremonger, as that hee had sixteene bastards by seuerall strumpets, as these ver­ses giue sufficient testimonie.

Marul▪ de In­nocent. 8. Octo nocens pueros genuit totidemque puellas. Huic merito, poterit dicere Roma Patrem: That is, Inno­cent begat eight sonnes, and iust so many daugh­ters; Rome therefore might iustly call him Father. I omit Iohn the twelueth, who Luitprand Ticinenfis lib. 6▪ cap, et 7. et Martin. Polon. in anno 986. gaue orders in his Stable, amongst his Horses; abused his Fathers Con­cubine, & made his Pallace a Stews, put out his ghost­lie Fathers eyes, gelded one of his Cardinalls, dranke to the Devill, and at Dice called for helpe of Iupi­ter and Venus.

I come to Iohn the three and twentieth, of whom a whole Counsaile saith thus: Concil. Con­stant▪ sess▪ 11. A tempore iuuentu­tis suae fuit homo malae in dolis, in verecundus, im­pudicus, mendax, parentibus suis rebellis et inobe­diens, plerisque vitijs deditus, actalis et pro tali fuit [Page 199] communiter dictus, tentus, creditus etreputatus ab omnibus. Et ad huc dicitur, tenetur, creditur, et re­putatur pro tali, et vt talis: That is, Iohn the fiue and twentieth from the very time of his youth, hath euer­more beene a man of an euill disposition, vnshame­fast, vnchast, alyar, vnobedient to his Parents, and giuen to many other vices, and such an one, and for such an one, was hee commonly named, holden, be­leeued, taken, and reputed of all that knewe him. And still is hee named, holden, beleeued, and repu­ted such an one, and for such one.

Adde hereto Pope Nicholas the third, who begatt Cyprian de Valera in nicol. a childe by his Concubine, which in nayles and haire was like a Beare; which some impute to the pictures of Beares that hee caused to bee made in his house. And therefore Martine the fourth, who kept the same Concubine after him, fearing belike the like mischance, caused the pictures of the Beares to be taken away.

But I will not warble any longer vpon this vn­tuneable harsh string, neither set downe of the hun­dreth part of what I am able to iustifie out of credi­ble Writers: for (to vse the wordes of one that was afterward Pope himselfe) Aeneas Syl­trius de gestis Concil: Basil: lib: 1▪ De Romanis Pontifici­bus liceret exempla admodum multa adferre; si tempus sineret; qui aut haeretici, aut alijs imbuti vi­tijs, sunt reperti: If time would permit, I might bring foorth very many examples of Romane Bi­shops, that were found either to bee heretikes, or else defiled with other vices.

Albeit Mahomet was (as hath beene shewed) very vicious; yet made he the Arabians beleeue, that he was Breidenbach▪ de Peregrin. sua, cap. 3. Propheta, et nuntius Dei, a Prophet, and a messenger of God: so albeit the Pope be that man of sinne spoken of in the 2. Chap. of the 2 Epist. to the Thesla, verse 2. Yet beareth he the world in hand, that he Iohan. de Turrecremata, lib. 2. summae de eccles: cap, 26: is Vicarius Christi, Christs Vicar vpon earth.

Mahomet Lonicerus de rebus Turcic & Breidenbach▪ de peregrin▪ sua professed himselfe to bee both a Priest, and a King, and chalenged to himselfe the power of both swords: so did Boniface the 8. when hee Vide Vsper­gens. caused the two swords to bee borne before him, in a yeare of Iubiley, thereby to shew his power: and when he Bonisacius de maior▪ et obed. cap. v­num sanct. al­leadged that place in the Gospel, where one of Christs Disciples said, ecce duogladij, behold two swords. The Popes fauourites also in these dayes, doe solemnly di­spute, that R▪ Cupers pag. 251, Num. 62. the Empire or temporall rule, as wel as the priesthood or ecclesiasticall dominion, is translated vn­to the successour of Peter.

Mahomet boasted, that he had receaued Zigaben. in Elench. Tas cleis tou paradeisou, the keyes of Paradise: so doth the Pope boast that he is Dist. 22; cap, omnes. aeternae vitae clauiger, the Key-bearer of eternal life. And albeit it was auouched by the Scribes, and not denied by Christ, that Marc, 2, 7: none can forgiue sinns but God onely: yet doth the Pope take vpon him to forgiue sinnes, and to giue heauen to whom it pleaseth him. Yea one of the Popes suffered the Embassadours of Sicilia to lie prostrate on the ground, and thus to cry vnto him, as if it had beene vnto Christ: Vide Paulum Aemilium, lib, 7, Quitollis pec­cata mundi miserere nostri: qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem: thou that takest away the sinnes of the world, giue vs peace.

Mahomet not onely to gratifie his companions, but also the more easily to allure al nations receiued all re­ligions. As for example, to allure the Iewes, he exal­tedh Vide Alcora ni Azoar. 12, et 16, Moses, and retained circumcision; not to estrange the mindes of Christians, he confessed Christ to bee Alcorani. Azoar 16. a Prophet and the Word of God; to please the Arrians and Cerdonians, he Alcorani Azoar 9, et 11. sayd that Christ was not the ve­ry Sonne of God; to winne the Pelagians, he Alcorani Azoara 18, et 41 taught, that men may merit Heauen by their workes. In a word, Bibliander in prefat, in Alcor. Mahometismus ex veteribus haeresibus consutus est, Mahometisme is patched together of olde here­sies: So is Papisme like wise patched, as I shewed you in our first, second, and third dayes conferences.

Mahomet composed of the traditions of the He­brewes, and other such like fables, his Alcoran, that is, a certaine booke: wherein are contained all those Turkish mysteries, and ceremonies that haue no ground in the word of God: so haue your Popes made you an Alcoran of Traditions, constitutions, tales & decretalls.

The Turkes make more account of Mahomets Al­coran than of the sacred Scriptures: so doe you make more account of the popes Constitutions and Tradi­tions, then of the Word of God; for you holde with Melchior Canus, that Melchior Canus locor, Theol▪ lib. 3, fol. 98. for confounding of heretickes there is greater strength in Tradition, than in the Scripture: and with Siluester Prierias, that Siluester pri­erias contra Luther. cōclus. de potestate Papae. iudul­gences [Page 202] are warranted vnto vs, not by the authority of the Scripture, but by the authority of the Church & of the Pope of Rome, which, sayth he, is greater.

The Turkes Vide Ziga ben. in Elench. Ismael. et Vin­cent. specul. hist. lib. 23. cap. 36▪ belieue that Mahomet conferred with the Angel Gabriel and receiued their Alcoran from him: so do you labour to make simple people belieue, that you receiued your traditions Cōcil. Tridēt Sess. 5. from Christ & his Apostles.

The Turkes (as the forenamed writers report) beare the world in hand, that their religion was confirmed by miracles, signes, and wonders; so do you.

The Alcorani Az [...] ara 10. Turkes account some sinnes veniall; so doe Guilielmus pe raldus Sum. Virtut▪ ac vitior. tom 2. cap. 20, you.

The Alcorani. Azoara 23. Turkes take whoredome to bee either no sin at all, or if it be a sin, to be a very small sin: so doe your popish shauelings, as appeareth by these words of Erasmus: Erasmus in Enchyrid. mil. Christiani cap. 14. bona pars eorum, quos vulgus integros et in corruptos appellat, simplicem fornicationem, et moderatum voluptatis vsum, vt leue commissum neutiquam effugiunt: a great part of those whom the common sort taketh for perfect and incorrupt men, do not a whit aborre simple fornication, and a sober vse of pleasure, recko­ning it to be but a pettie faulte. Yea, you account it to be so small a fault indeed, as that you holde that no Priest ought to bee deposed from his benefice for single fornication. These be your expresse words in your owne glosse vpon the decrees: Distinct. [...]. Presbiter. dicunt nemi­nem hodie propter fornicationem simplicem esse deponendum they say that for single fornication no man ought at this day to be deposed. And least ye should mis▪ [Page 203] trust your glosse to be corrupted, it is also thus noted of purpose in great letters in the margine: Fornicatio­nis causa hodie nemo est deponendus: quia corpora a hodie y Ibid in glossa. sunt fragiliora: no man now a dayes ought to be de­priued for fornication: and that because our bodies are frailer, then they were wont to be.

Panormitane also your greatest Canonist, sayth thus: Vide Extrau▪ de Consangui nit▪ et affinit, nō debet, Abb. advarietatem temporum debent mutaristatu [...]a hu­mana: ideo hodie ex simplice fornicatione Clericus non de­ponitur: the lawes of men ought to be altered, accor­ding to the change of times: and therefore now a dayes no priest is deposed for single fornication. And Archer the Iesuite (as your secular In their relation, pag▪ 47▪ [...] Priests te­stifie) defended this proposition, viz. that the stewes are as lawfull at Rome, as the Pope himselfe, or anie order of Religion.

The Iesuite Weston likewise defended the same, against Doctor Bagshaw.

The Multi Tureis sunt peculiares sancti, quorum alii a peregri nantibus, alii a parieutibus, alii a calamitosis, alii a viatoribus inuocantur, Septēcastrens. de Religion▪ Turcic▪ cap, 15. Turks' pray to Saints, and haue certaine pe­culiar Saints, for peculiar purposes: so haue you, as hereafter (God willing) shall bee largely shewed.

The Menauin, de sepultura Turcar. Turkes pray for the dead; so do you, and that especially when you go ouer any Church-yard saying: Orat. pro De funct. in com. suffrag. fol. 132 Auete omnes anims fideles, quarum corpord hic et vbi (que) requiescant in puluere Dominus▪ Iesus Christus qui vos et nos redemit suo pretiosissimo fanguine, dignetur vos apanis liberare, et inter choros suorum sanctorum An­gelorum coll [...]care: &c.

The Alchorani Azoara 10, 21, 25. Turkes dreame of a purgatorie after this life: so do your dreaming Bellarm. de purgat. lib. 1. cap. 1. et lib. 2, cap. 6 et Rhemist. in mat 12, sect, 66. Doctors, that there is a certaine infernall place in the earth, called purgatorie, in the which, as in a prison house, the soules which are not fully purged in this life, are there cleansed and purged by fire, before they can be receiued into Heauen.

The Septemcastr. de Relig. Turc. cap. 15. Turkes honour & reuerence the Sepulchers of their Saints: so do your Bellarm. de reliquijs Sanc­torum lib. 2. cap. 21. et concil. Trident. sess. 25, Doctours teach you, that the reliques of Saints, that is, their bodies, and bones, and sepulchres, where they are buried, are to bee ho­noured and reuerenced.

The Septēcast. de Relig. Turic. cap. 14, et Antō Menauin. cap. 15. et Breiden bac. de peregri nat, sua cap, 3, Turkes vse to goe on pilgrimage, to certaine supposed holy places: so do some of you vsually walke on your bare feete, with a Peregrines staffe in your hand, & with a scrip about your necks, to Saint Iames of Compostella, to the Lady of Lauretto, and to sun­dry other such like places.

The Septemcast [...] de Relig▪ Turst cic. cap. 13, et Ri [...]her. lib, 2. demoribus Turcar. Turkes were strictly commanded by Maho­met to pray fiue times a day; so are you Masse-mon­gring Priests Innocent. in cap. 1, de cele brat. missar. enioyned to obserue their Canonicall houres.

Them Turkes thinke their priests sufficiently learned, [Page 265] if that they can read their Alchoran, and their forme of seruice: so do you account those Priestes sufficientliem Anton, Gen­freus lib, 2, de Relig. Turcic. learned, that can read the masse booke. Witnesse one that was once the Popes scholler, who thus reporteth of the Italian Priests: Iohn Nichols in his Recanta­tion, The Priestes in Italie for the most part are altogether vnlearned. I demaunded of some of these Italian Priestes in the Italian tongue, whether God the Father, and God the Holie-Ghost had bodies, they answered, yea. The Scottish Priestes also, (as their owne Countrie-man reporteth of them) were found to be so blockish in the last reformation of Religion there, that the verie Nouitatis no mine offensi condenterunt novum testa mentum nuper a Martino Luthero fuisse scriptum, ac vetus testamentū reposcerent. name of the newe testa­ment was much offensiue to them, they thought it to bee newe deuised and inuented by Martin Luther, and asked for the old againe. Yea, there was then a Bishop of Dunkelden there in the time of Poperie, that replied thus one a minister which said he had reade the old and new testament: Vide Iohan, Fox in Histor. Scotic. inter. annos. 1540. et 1543. I thanke God I neuer knewe what the olde and new Testament was.

But what need I relate the ignorance of your Priests? Alphons. de Castro. lib. 1. de haeres, cap, 4, Constat (to vse the wordes of one of your owne side) plures Paparumadeo esse illiterates, vt Grammati­cam penitus ignorent: it is well knowne, that many of your Popes haue beene so vtterly voide of learning, as that they knew not the principles of their Gram­mer.

To conclude, you are greatly beholden to mee, in that I doe resemble you to the Turkes; for in some things you are worse then they.

Are we Catholickes worse then the Turkes in some things?

Yes, for there is (that I may vse his Maiesties words) no other Sect of Heretiques, not excepting Turke, Iewe, nor Pagan, no not euen those of Calicute, whor See his Ma­iesties speech in the late Session of Parlia­ment. adore the Deuill, that maintaine by the groundes of their Religion, that it is lawfull, or rather Meritori­ous (as the Romish Catholickes call it) to murther Princes or people for quarrell of Religion, And al­though particular men of all professions of Religi­on, haue beene some theeues, some murtherers, some traytors; yet euen when they came to their ende and iust punishment, they cōfessed their fault to be in their nature, and not in their profession (these Romish Ca­tholikes onely excepted) Now sir, what say you to this speech of the Kings Maiestie?

Sir, I dare not say what I thinke.

Eceles. 10, 20 Curse not the King, no not in thy thought: for the foules of the Heauen shall carrie thy voice, and that which hath winges shall declare thy matter.

The fifth Diologue.

SIr, I come to tell you newes.

What newes I pray you?

The Traytours that you told mee of, were lately arraigned, condemned, and executed.

Executed? I hope not.

What! did you hope, that such notorious malefac­tors should escape vnpunished.

Yes, I was in good hope, that the Senate of Parlia­ment, to whom the King referred the iudgement of the crime would haue pardoned them.

Sir; it would haue beene a wonder to all the world, if that they had pardoned such a viperous inten­ded parricide. It is reported that a Norman Gentle­man, confessing to a Franciscan Frier, that hee had once a thought to kill Francis the first of Fraunce, was for that verie thought (albeit he had changed his minde, repented, and asked pardon) condemned to die by his high court of Parliament at Paris, to whom the King referred it.

Now then, if that Parliament of Paris condemned him to die for thinking treason onely: howe could you thinke, but that his Maiestie, and the state, would condemne these your Romish Catholikes to die, who not onely thought treason, but contriued it, prepared for it, and were readie to execute it? If they condemned him to die, albeit hee had changed his minde, and repented; should not his Maiestie, & the state condemne these to die, who were so farre from changing their minde, and repenting, as that Guido Fawkes. they repented onely with Mutius Scoeuola, there failing in the execution thereof?

Well, what punishment was inflicted on them?

Truely, they were punished iust as I wished they might bee at our last conference. For first they were drawne on hurdles from the prison to the place of execution, to shew howe they had beene drawne by brutish and Cassian affection. Secondly, they were [Page 269] hanged vp, to shew, that they were men vnworthie to tread vpon the earth. Thirdly, they were no soo­ner turned off the Ladder, but the Rope was cut, and they let fall downe, to shew the sequele and effect of treason, viz▪ how that they digge a pit for others, & fall into it themselues. Fourthly, they were noe sooner fallen downe, but the executioner snatched them vp, laid them on a blocke, cut of their secrets, and cast them into the fire, to shew that traytors are vnworthie to be begotten, or to beget others. Fifty, their bellies were ripped vp, and there hearts torne out, & throwne into the same fire, because they were the fountaine of such an vnnaturall and vnhearde of treacherie. Sixtly, as they though to haue cut off the head from the members in the ciuill bodie; so were their heads cut off from the members of their bodies. and their wickednesse turned on their owne heades, Seuently, their heads being cut off, their bodies were diuided into quarters, as they were diuided from the found members in the ciuill bodie. Lastly, their quarters were set vpp vppon the gates of the Citie; that as their gracelesse attempts were an ill exam­ple to others: so their quarters there exposed to the eyes of all men, might be a good caueat to others.

I pray you sir, what warrant haue you for these bloo­dy ceremonies, which you vsed at their execution?

Sir, our warrant is the word of God: for wee Ester, 7. 9. reade that treacherous Haman was banged on a tree of fiftie cubites high.

Yea, but where read you, that it was lawful to teare out their hearts, they being aliue.

Wee reade in the second of Samuel, that when that vnnaturall tray tour Absolon, was hanged in an Oke by the haire of his head, 2. Sam▪ 18 14 Ioab tooke three dartes in his hand and thrust them through Absolon, or (as it is in the originall text) in the heart of Absalon, while he was yet aliue in the middes of the Oake. From which wordes I gather, that as traytors hearts con­triue treason, and haue a time of pride and presump­tion: so should they also haue a time of wofull pai­ning, for their contriuing of treason, and for their proud and presumptuous sinnes.

What though Ioab pearsed Absalons heart, while hee was aliue? are you sure that this fact of Ioab was lawfull.

Yes, it was (no doubt) the iust iudgement of God on his heart, for breeding and bringing forth such an horible treason;

Yea, but which of the ancient fathers saith so?

Ignatius a verie ancient father hath these expresse words: Ignatius epist. 2. ad▪ Tr [...]ian? Absolon parricida existens diuino iudicio arbori [Page 271] appensus, sed et cor eius quod male cogitauerat, sagitta trans­fixumest: Absalon a Pharricide by Gods iudgement was hanged on a tree, and his heart that had thought euill, was thrust thorough with an arrow.

But what doe I speake of thrusting the heartes of traitours through with arrowes, or of tearing them out of their bodies? Dauid a man after Gods owne heart, grated the verie flesh, and rent asunder the bones of such like enemies to GOD and their Countrey, with 2 Sam▪ 12, 31 yron harrowes, sawes, and axes of yron.

And thus you see, howe that there is no punish­ment inflicted vpon traitours in this Land which is not agreeable to the worde of God, and lesse then they deserue.

Yes, you punish not the traitours onely them­selues, but their wiues, their children, yea their whole posteririe: for you take from them their Landes, their houses, their offices, and what not?

This is also agreeable to the worde of God. 2▪ Sam, 16. 4 Ziba hauing falsely accused Mephibosheth to Dauid, vntill the truth was found out, had Mephibosheths lands, and all that pertained vnto Mephibosheth, giuen vnto him by King Dauid. And Ester, 8, 1, 2. King Ahashuerosh gaue the house of treacherous Hamon vnto Queene Ester, and Queene Ester gaue it to Mordecai, as a reward of his loyaltie. As for offices it is 1▪ Kings. 2. 26 27, 35. recorded of Abiathar, that albeit Salomon spared his life because he had borne the Arke of the Lorde God before Dauid [Page 272] his father, and because he had suffered in all, wherein his father hadde beene afflicted: yet cast hee him out from being priest vnto the Lord, and placed Zadocke in his roome. Yea the Persians rooke not their houses, their offices, their Landes, and their liuinges onely from traitours wiues and children, but their liues two, For Ester, 16, 18 Haman was hanged at Susis before the gates, with all his familie, as the Apocryphall storie hath it. But what neede I alleadge the Apocryphall? the Canoni­call saith, that Ester, 9, 14 they hanged Hamans ten sonnes vp­on a tree at Shusan.

Nowe to applie this, if the Persians so detested treason, as that they punished both the traitour with death, and euerie one of his familie two: I see no rea­son why you should complaine of rigour, and accuse his Maiestie of more then Scythian crueltie. Nay, you should rather commend his clemency, in sparing their childrens liues, and punishing them onely in landes and liuinges, and sometimes not in that neither.

Well to leaue this, howe manie I praye you were executed? were there anye of the Lordes exe­cuted?

Noe, but I dooe not doubt but that they shall bee in the same Inpraedicamē ▪ to Passionis. predicament shortlie, if that they bee founde guiltie.

VVhat? doe you thinke that they shall be behea­ded?

Be beheaded? they may thanke God and the king, if they escape so.

Thanke the king? Sir, hee may not inflict any other punishment vpon such great men.

Yes, if it please his maiestie, he may as lawfully cause them to be hanged, drawne, and quartered, as hee cau­sed their inferiours. But you tell me, that they are great men. VVhat though? Haman was a great man, an honourable man, yea the verie next person vnto the king, as appeareth by these wordes of Artaxerxes: Ester▪ 16, 11 he was called our father, and was honoured of euerie man as the next person to the king. And yet was hee Ester, 7. 9 hanged on a tree of fiftie cubites high. Hamans se­uen sonnes were great men, yet were they hanged be­fore the gates of Shusan, and that (which mee thinkes was a pitifull case) for their fathers fault.

Bigthan and Teresh were great men; yet because they sought to lay their hands on king Ahashuerosh, Ester, 2, [...] they were both hanged on a tree together.

King Sauls seauen sonns were great men, yet king Dauid 2▪ Sam, 21. 9 deliuered them into the handes of the Gibeo­nites, which hanged them in the mountaine before the Lord. Ro▪ Gagwin. in anno. Reg. Franc. lib, 5 1 Ibid. Hebert Earle of Vermendoies was a great man, yet because hee invited Charles surname [...] the simple king of Fraunce, to lodge at his castle of Peron and slew him there: Lewes the fift with the Lordes of, his Privie Counsaile assembled in the cittie of Laon, cau­sed him to bee carried, (as Robert Gagwine recor­deth) to an hill without the citie of Laon, and there to bee trussed at the gallowes and strangled with a rope. But before the Hangman had fully strangled [Page 274] him, the king turned to him, (saith ^r Gagwine) and said: thou Hebert art the same Countrieman that ma­dest away my Lord, and father, and thy Soueraigne in prison and bondes, now according to thy desert suffer thy deserued death.

Lord Harkeley, Earle of Carlile, was a great man; yet for treason against his Soueraine Edwarde the Second, Fabian in an. 12 24. et Polidor Hist, Angl, i▪ i [...] hee was hanged drawne and quartered, and his head sent to London, and set on the bridge. Chronica fructus Temporum telleth vs, how that hee was first disgraded, his spurres hewed from his heeles, his sword broken ouer him, and then disgarnished of the robes of his estate, and after tortured for his treason, as is afore said.

Bertopus was a great man; yet for his treason, Lewes surnamed the grosse King of France, Ro. Gag▪ in anno, Reg. Franc, lib, 6 appointed, that he should be hanged at the gallowes, and by him a mastife dogge aliue, whom when the hangeman smot, hee snatched at the traytors bodie hanging by him, rent his flesh, and so was he baited to death. Queene Brunchild wife sometime to Sigisbert King of Mees or Austracia, was a great woman; yet because she had beene the death of ten princes of the Roiall blood, King Clotare taking her in the fielde, Robert. Gag. in anno, Reg Franc. lib. 2 after she had beene well beaten with a cudgell foure times, com­manded her to be set on an horse, and to be carried about all the host, and then by the haire of the head and armes to be tyed to the taile of a wild horse; and so to be trailed and drawne to death. And no lesse strange iudgement and execution was that which Frotho a King of Denmarke inflicted on two of his Chamber conuicted of treason against him: he caused them to be tied to two great maine stones, and to bee throwne into the sea, and so (to vse the wordes of Saxo Grāma­ricus in lib. 2 histor, Danic. Saxo the writer of the storie of the Danes) animi cri­men annexa corporibus mole mulctando, with waight put [Page 275] to their bodies, hee punished the waightie sinne of their soules. But not to insist any longer in this enu­meration of particular examples, God commaunded Moses, Num, 25, 4 to take the heads of the people; that is, the chiefest of the malefactors, and to hang them vp be­fore the Lord against the sunne, that the indignation of the Lords wrath might be turned from Israel. And why must Moses take the chiefe of them? truely, be­cause they had not corrupted themselues onely, but also others, and done more euill by their euill exam­ple, then by their sinne. For the force of example is verie great to draw to similitude, and the greater the example is, the greater force it hath to induce like­nesse of manners.

The crime therefore of those great men that had an hand in the late horrible treason, was a great crime, an exemplar crime; and consequently a Bis peccar qui exemplo peccat. double crime, and deserues more then a single punishment.

I speake not this (God is my witnesse) as holding it a maine point of pietie, to bee in this case quite with­out pittie. But to stoppe your mouthes, that scanda­lize the Kings Maiestie and the state of crueltie in their iust seueritie: and to shew that it behooueth all men, to bee more compassionate to the life of the Common-wealth, then to the life of a man.