Nowell.

Saincte Cyprian writyng this Epistle to Rogatian one of his felowe bishoppes in Afrike, who had a diso­bediēt deacon, hath in the beginnyng of his letter these woordes: Grauiter & dolenter. &c. I, and my felowe bishoppes here present, were sore moued, moste deare brother (saieth saincte Cyprian) when wee had redde your letters: wherein you complaine of your deacon, that he forgettyng your priestly place, and his owne ministerie, hath greeued you with his reproches and wronges. Thus farre S. Cyprian. By whiche wordes it appereth that the mattier was betwene Rogatian a [Page] bishop in Afrike, and his deacon disobediente to hym: and therefore nothing apperteinyng to the bishoppe of Romes supremacie at all. Whiche might well haue appeared to the reader, had maister Dorman written but the iiij. lines next before the place by him alledged, whiche are these: Ideo oportet diaconum. &c. That is to saie: Therefore it is mete that the Deacon, of whom you doe write, doe penaunce for his boldenesse, that he acknowledge the honour of the priest, and doo satisfie the bishop his superiour, with full humilitie. For the beginnyng of heretikes, the springyng vp & enterprise of schismatikes, beyng euill minded, are these: that thei doo stand in their owne cōceite, that thei despise their gouernour through swellyng pride. &c. As Maister Dorman hath out of saincte Cyprian alledged. This declareth moste euidently, that the sentence of S. Cy­prian, alledged by M. Dorman, apperteineth to Ro­gatian and his deacon, beyng Africanes: and so gene­rally, to all other bishoppes, & their inferiours, of what countrey soeuer thei bee: and maketh nothyng for the Bishoppe of Romes supremacie at all. If M. Dorman would proue hereby, y^t euery inferiour minister ought to be obedient to his owne bishop, as his superiour: or that the disobedience of suche is cause of schismes and heresies, (for so doeth S. Cyprian meane) wee graunte the same. But if he would haue it apperteine to the bi­shop of Rome, or to make any thyng for the Popes su­premacie (as by that M. Dorman calleth this an intro­duction to the proufe of his first proposicion, whiche is, of the Popes supremacie: and by the processe of this his preface also, it doeth plainly appere, that he meaneth) he abuseth shamefully the authoritie of S. Cyprian: and thinketh all the worlde, sauyng hymself alone, a­sleape, and blinde on bothe sides too: Consideryng that [Page 2] that in all this Epistle, there is not one woorde of the bishop of Rome, or his supremacie, nor he as muche as once named therein.

Nowell.

M. Dorman trusted that as sone as these woordes, The bishop vvhich is one, and gouerneth the churche is despised: the man by gods approbacion alowed, is of vnvvorthie mē iudged, should be redde, or heard of the simple, thei would nothyng doubte, but that y^e Pope of Rome despised by suche as we be, was meant thereby. But this epistle, as it is written by S. Cyprian to one Pupianus, so doeth it entreate of them twoo, and their matters: and nothyng concerneth the bishop of Rome. For as before, by the head and gouernour appoincted, Rogatian was meante, and not the Pope: so in this place, by the bishop, vvhiche is one, and gouerneth the churche: by the man by Gods approbacion allovved, and honoured, and of vnvvorthie men iudged, Sainct Cyprian hymself, bishop of Carthage, is meante: who was abused by the saied Pupianus, and to whom he did write this epistle, reprouyng hym for his disobedi­ence to his bishoppe, (S. Cyprian) who was the onely manne allowed by Gods approbacion, to gouerne the [Page] Churche of Carthage: and so by the saied Pupian, as his inferiour, to be obeyed. Wherefore this place is as impertinente to M. Dorman his purpose, as was the former place. For neither in this long Epistle is there as muche as one woorde of the bishop of Rome. I con­clude therefore, that these places are by M. Dorman falsly and shamelesly alledged, to make a shewe, or as he calleth it, an introduction to the bishop of Rome his authoritie, wherevnto thei apperteine nothyng at all, but onely to the euersion thereof. And that M. Dorman hath thereby declared, what credite he deserueth in the reste of his booke, continued with like impudente lies. Touchyng S. Cyprian his phrase of one bishop of the churche, whiche M. Dorman taketh as signifiyng one bishop ouer the whole churche, for that the falsenesse of that collection, is at large explicated after in a more pe­ [...]uliar place, I pretermitte here to speake of it. Onely this is moste euident, in what sense so euer S. Cypri­an taketh these woordes (one bishoppe that ruleth the churche) the bishop of Carthage is that one bishop, and not the bishop of Rome: and therefore that phrase of one bishop rulyng the churche, can make nothyng for the bishop of Rome his supremacie, but rather dooeth vtterly ouerthrowe it, as apperteinyng specially to the bishoppe of Carthage, in A [...]rike: not to the bishoppe of Rome, in Italie: and declaryng in deede, the bishops of all places to be equall in authoritie, and consequen­tly ouerthrowyng the supremacie of one ouer all.

Nowell.

M. Dorman dooeth not (as he saied he would) sette Sainct Basilles woordes before your eyes: but dooeth goe aboute (as muche as he can) to bleare your eyes, that you should not see the truthe. For he is so desirous to make some shewe for the Popes supremacie, that he would by false translation wrest places of the doctours, moste impertinente, to make them seme to sounde that waie: and therefore in this place, in stéede of these woor­des, praesidentias inuadunt, thei dooe inuade the chiefe roumes: he hath translated, thei doe inuade and set v­pon their heades. And againe in stede of these woordes, He that can vtter most greuous blasphemies (to witte against Christ and the holie ghoste) is accompted more [Page] worthy to be the bishop of the pople: he hath thus tran­slated, he that can vtter against the bishop of the peo­ple, moste greuous and slaunderous blasphemies, is ac­compted of greatest price, and had in moste estimatiō. Thus hath M. Dorman translated this place, whether negligently, as halfe a sleape, according to his name: or ignoraūtly, as he that could not see, though broad wa­kyng: or maliciouslie, wittyng and willyng did he fal­sifie it, to make it seme as spokē of the bishop of Rome, whom he would haue to be taken for the head, and the bishop of the people: And vs he would haue to be taken for the inuaders of the said head, and the blasphemours of that bishop, as it were of God hymself, against whō properlie is blasphemie. But let S. Basill hymself bee iudge, betweene M. Dorman, and me: whose woordes in th'epistle folowing, where he entreateth of the same matter, and the whiche also M. Dorman hereafter al­legeth, are these. Vnigenitus blasphematur, & non est qui contradicat: Spiritus sanctus ignominia afficitur, & qui potest redarguere fugatur. &c. To saie: The onelie sonne of God (Christ) is blasphemed, and there is none to gaine saie it: the holie ghost is reproched, and he that is able to reproue it, is chased awaie. Thus farre sainct Basill. Loe M. Dorman, who is blasphemed, not the bishop of the people, as you dooe dreame, but our saui­our Christe, and the holie ghoste are blasphemed: and suche blasphemers are iudged moste worthie to bee bi­shoppes of the people. This is the truthe, this is sainct Basilles minde, that the blasphemer is made bishoppe of the people, and not, the bishop of the people blasphe­med. It is easie to perceiue therefore, good readers, that this is moste farre from all purpose, that he allegeth by patching here and there, out of Basilius Magnus his. 69 epistle, to the Bishoppes of Italie and Fraunce, and [Page 4] ouerpassing purposely sentences, directly touching the aduersaries them selues: where saincte Basill decla­reth the miserable state of all the Easte Churches, euen from Illyrike, to Thebaida (as he there saieth) by rea­son of the disturbaunce that all good and godlie bishop­pes of the saied Easte Churches (whiche were of the Greekes for the moste parte) suffered by the Arrians, whose heresies all the world dooeth knowe how muche wee dooe abhorre. And therefore euen the chief of the Hosius contra Brentium lib▪ 1. folio. 24. & lib. 5. fol. 249. Papistes can not but therefore muche commende vs. What abuse therefore is this of the readers, and of his own, and other mennes tyme, that M. Dorman should charge vs with the crimes of those menne, whose here­sies and wickednesse, it is well knowen, we doo moste detest. But as before he abused certaine woordes of S. Cyprian: so here, because mention is made by S. Ba­sill of these woordes: Praesidentias inuadunt, prima se­des, & populi episcopus. That is to saie, Thei inuade the highest roumes, the chief see, and the bishop of the people: he trusted that the ignoraunte would take the saied woordes, as meant of the bishoppe of Rome, and his authoritie, and of our contempte of the same. But bothe this. 69. epistle, and the epistle folowing, by mai­ster Dorman also hereafter alleged, dooe manifestlie declare, all these woordes to appertaine to the Easte churches, and to the Bishoppes of the Easte churches, and not to the Bishoppe of Rome: and that the chiefe roumes so inuaded, bee the Bishoprikes of the Easte churches, and not the Bishoprike of Rome: and the set of euery of them, is that chief see, or place proposed for a rewarde of wickednesse, and not Rome: and that the blasphemous Arrian is that bishop of the people: whoō if maister Dorman will haue to bee the Bishoppe of Rome, I will not muche labour to let hym. And so all [Page] this is altogether impertinent to his purpose, to make any shewe for the Popes authoritie, or any resēblaunce of our doinges against the Pope. For if he would haue it to perteine to vs, as doing the like now as was dooen in sainct Basilles tyme by the Arrians (For he saieth, it dooeth liuelie represente our tymes) why maie not we with as good, and more reason, affirme it rather to apperteine to the Papistes them selues, and moste liue­lie to represent their doynges? It is their passyng pride and ambition, whiche sheweth that thei feare not the Lorde. Thei haue inuaded presidences, not onelie ec­clesiasticall, but temporall also, hauyng the titles of bishoppes, leadyng the liues of temporall Lordes and Princes. The more wicked that any of them is, the more blasphemous, the more likelie is he to clime to the highest place, as his due reward. Whiche hath been obserued for a rule in the election to the Papac [...]e, the higheste place of all, this many hundreth yeres. What speake I of election? For the obteinyng of the whiche highest place among them, so many fraudes, simonies, poisonynges, bloudie fightes, and murders haue been committed: as maie to suche, who will read their owne stories, well appeare. Yea the verse Pope that now is, In oratione habita in con­sistorio Romae 1564. Februa­rio mense ty­pis excusa. Pius the fowerth, dooeth pitifullie complaine, that not onelie Simonie, and corruption by largition of huge summes of money, but also force and armes haue been attempted, to depriue hym yet liuyng, of his Papacie, and to place an other. To proceede, the authoritie of Priestes is loste emongest the Papistes, and turned in­to temporall lordship. The rulers of the clergie among the Papistes can not teache the people, thei are so igno­raunt: and their liues be suche, that thei haue lost their libertie to speake againste vices, where of them selues are moste guiltie: and the laitie doeth disdaine to bee by [Page 5] suche admonished. Where y^e Papistes doo beare swaie, there are all godlie mennes mouthes stopped by their exceadyng crueltie: onely blasphemous Friers haue their tongues at libertie. The holie Sacramentes are prophaned by their superstitions: the holie woorde of God is corrupted by their gloses, and Traditions. In summe, all holie thynges are by their vnholie dooyn­ges polluted and defiled. And thus farre touchyng as muche as is by M. Dorman alledged out of S. Basill, and howe it doeth right well agree with our aduersa­ries. Basil. epist. 69. Now S. Basill hath more matter, whiche maister Dorman hath of purpose ouerpassed, as in his owne eares somewhat soundyng of Popishe properties: to witte, that the authoritie of Priestes was loste, for that there Defecerunt qui pascunt cū scientia ouile domini. lacked in the cleargie suche as could with know­ledge féede the Lordes foulde: for that Aconomias pauperum in proprias volu­ptates īsumūt thei of the clear­gie conuerted the prouisiō, made in the churche for the poore, to their owne pleasures: kepte Annihilata est canonum sinceritas. not the Canons and rules ecclesiasticall: Licentia peccandi mul­ta. &c. vsed all libertie in sinnyng: came to dignities Ecclesiasticall by mennes fauoure, more then their owne worthines: and Serui enim sunt eorū qui beneficiū con­tulerunt. so became their bonde men, who bestowed vpon suche benefite or be­nefice. This hath also S. Basill in that Epistle. Now what ignoraunce of Goddes lawe was in the Popishe cleargie, vntill we stirred thē vp to their bookes: what riotous wasting of ecclesiasticall possessions vpon their owne pleasure, before we did finde faulte with it: what breache bothe of Goddes lawe, and of the old Canons Ecclesiasticall, yea euen of their owne Popishe decrées also: what libertie and impunitie of moste wicked life, vntill all the worlde cried out vpon theim: what suite, simonie and ambition for Ecclesiasticall promocions, was emongest the Popishe cleargie: how many of thē for bribes or worldlie fauour were promoted: how few [Page] for their owne worthinesse, was well knowen ouer all Christendome, and can not yet be forgotten. I am sure therefore, that this whole place of S. Basill maie more iustlie be applied to the Papistes, then to vs. And it is not vnknowen to M. Dorman, that it is in reasonyng the greatest faulte that can bee, to bryng that for hym, whiche maie bee either common to his aduersaries, or returned backe against hymself. Wherefore I beseche thee good reader, consider the sinceritie of M. Dorman, who, vpon suche places as are these, taken out of sainct Cyprian, and S. Basill, as it were vpon good and sub­stantiall groundes, concluded thus.

Nowell.

You see here the conclusion gathered out of that, whiche hetherto by hym hath been alledged out of S. Cyprian, and sainct Basill. And how the verie wordes written by sainct Cyprian, in the places before menti­oned, for the maintenaunce of bishoppe Rogatian his authoritie, and for his owne authoritie also, thei being bothe Bishoppes of Afrike, he is not ashamed here in his conclusion, to place out of place, and to apply them [Page 6] to the proofe of the bishoppe of Rome his supremacie, whervnto thei apperteine nothyng at all: and to frame thereof this leude argument: The entrie into all here­sies is, to make open warres against the bishop appo­inted by God, to bee the lawfull gouernour and heade of the churche. This is the maior, and is proued by S. Cyprian: now foloweth his minor, but the bishop of Rome is the bishop appointed by God, to bee here in earth the lawfull gouernour, and heade of the churche: the conclusion: ergo, The entrie into all heresies is to make open warre againste the bishop of Rome. I sai [...] the minor, is false, and a false conclusion doeth folowe of the same. For the bishop (of whom S. Cyprian spea­keth) appointed by God to be lawfull gouernour, and heade of the churche, is in Carthage S. Cyprian hym­self: and Rogatian, in his owne Diocesse: and not the Bishop of Rome, otherwise then in his owne Diocesse onely. And therefore open warre to bee made againste them, in their owne Diocesse, whereof thei be lawfull bishoppes, is the beginnyng of heresies, and not to re­siste the bishop of Rome, vsurpyng to be head of the v­niuersall Churche, ouer the whiche, of right, he hath no authoritie. For these woordes. [the bishop appoin­ted by God, to bee the lawfull gouernour and head of the churche] if thei make for any supremacie at all, thei make for the supremacie of Rogatian, and Cyprian bishops of Afrike, of whō S. Cyprian speaketh theim: and not of the bishop of Rome, of whom in those Epi­stles he speaketh not one woorde. And if thei make not for the supremacie of Cyprian, & Rogatian, thei make for none at all: and if thei make for no supremacie at al, they were here without all cause alledged by M. Dor­man, but onely to deceiue the simple, by suche a guile­full, and vntrue introduction to his firste false proposi­tion, [Page] of the Pope his supremacie. Now if he thinke yet that he might make suche a simple collection of S. Cy­prian and S. Basill his woordes, as this: That as the beginnyng of heresies in their time, was the contempt of the inferiours towardes their owne Bishops (for so S. Cyprian teacheth) so in likewise is the contempte of the Pope, as the highest of all bishops, the beginnyng of heresies now. First I denie the argument, for that it foloweth not, though it be euill for the inferiour to dis­obeie his owne bishop, to whose obedience in all god­linesse he is bounden. Therfore it is euill for a straun­ger, not to obeie a straunge foraine vsurpar, to whom he oweth no duetie of obediēce. Againe I saie, though it be the beginnyng of heresie, to disobey Cyprian, Ro­gatian, yea or Cornelius, beyng godlie and catholike bishops: yet is it not likewise the beginnyng of here­sies, to disobey any the late Popes of Rome: who were not onely no godlie bishops (as were Cyprian, Roga­tian, and Cornelius) but bothe moste wicked, and in deede no Bishops at all, but false vsurpers of worldlie tyrannie. Whom, for the subiectes of an other christiā and lawfull soueraigne, to obeie, and not to disobeie, is Basilius Epi­stola. 70. Per­sequutionem patiuntur pa­stores, vt disꝑ­gantur oues gregis. the beginning of heresies, treasons, and all other euils and mischiefes. In the conclusion it is to be noted, whē Basill speaketh of all the Bishops of the Easte, as the shepeherdes sufferyng persecution: maister Dorman alteryng the number, speaketh it of the Pope, as the onely shephearde: Remouyng the matter from many Greke pastours persecuted, to one Romane depastor dispersyng the flocke, and persecutyng, not sufferyng persecution.

Nowell.

[Page] As it is euident, that we are moste farre from No­natus heresie, so is Nouatus his othe not onely vnlike, but cleane contrary to our othes. The controuersie be­twixt Cornelius and Nouatus was not, whether the bishop of Rome was the supreme head of the churche, (as it is now betwene vs and the Papistes) but whe­ther Cornelius or he was by right y^e Bishop of Rome. And Nouatus exacted of the Romaines, or Italians, an othe, that thei should cleaue to hym as their bishop, againste Cornelius, who was their true Bishoppe in Eusebius libr. 6. cap. 43. déede: whiche was vnlawfull to require. Our othes be of obedience to our naturall Prince, due by Goddes lawe: and of renouncyng of foraine vsurped power, or authoritie ouer our Prince and countrey: without the whiche, we cā not be faithful to our owne soueraigne. But let vs consider his woordes. Thus did Nouatus, saieth M. Dorman, as though Nouatus had made his first entrie to his heresies, by makyng open warre a­gainste the bishop of Rome, appoincted by God to bee the lawfull gouernour, and head of the churche: and as though, he made them renounce the said bishop of Ro­mes supremacie. For his woordes, thus did Noua­tus. &c. (Whiche muste needes haue relation to that, whiche goeth before) doo importe no lesse. And his ap­pliyng of this othe of Nouatus, to our othes, inforceth the same. But Nouatus made neither the beginnyng, nor endyng of his heresies, about any deniyng of Cor­nelius supremacie, as bishop of Rome: nor exacted any othe for that purpose. For suche vsurped authoritie of the bishop of Rome, was then vnknowen and vnheard of, as shall hereafter moste plainly appeare. But the Cyprianus li. 3. Epist. 13. Eusebius li. 6. cap. 43. Nicephorus lib. 6. cap. 3. othe whiche Nouatus required was, that thei should acknowledge hym for their bishop, and not Cornelius who was their Bishop in deede. And further the saied [Page 8] othe concerned the maintenaunce of Nouatus his he­resie: whiche was, that suche, as for feare of tormentes had renounced the Christian faithe, or had offered In­cense to the Idoles of the Gentiles, though thei repen­ted therefore, were not to bée receiued into the churche againe: whiche cruell opinion, as well S. Cyprian bi­shop of Carthage, as Cornelius bishop of Rome, with all other godlie bishops, condemned: and taught the cō ­trary true doctrine, that suche also, vpon due repen­taunce, might bée receiued againe into the churche: ac­cordyng as wee this daie, doo also moste earnestly be­leue and teache. Now as Nouatus beyng in Italie re­quired an othe, that their adherentes Romaines, or I­taliās, should not turne to Cornelius bishop of Rome, to acknowledge him for their bishop, to be of his faith, and to communicate with hym: so did the professors of the same heresies trauell in Afrike with their disciples there, beyng Africanes, that thei should not returne to Cyprianus lib. 4. epist. 9. Cyprian Bishop of Carthage, to communicate with hym. Whiche, as it maketh nothyng for any suprema­cie of S. Cyprian bishop of Carthage, no more maketh the other for any supremacie of Cornelius bishoppe of Rome. For though it be vnlawfull to exacte an othe of any, to disobeie their owne godlie bishops, what pro­ueth that, that one maie not sweare to refuse the obe­dience of an aliene and wicked vsurpar, and to keepe hym in the obedience of his owne soueraine?

And where Nouatus began first his heresie in Afrik by striuyng against S. Cyprian, as S. Cyprian hym­self Cyprianus li. 2. epi. 8 Idēest Nouatus qui apud [...]os pri­mum discor­diae & schisma tis incendium seminauit &c. doeth witnesse, and not by striuyng firste againste Cornelius bishop of Rome, (as M. Dorman vntrulie reporteth) the beginnyng of heresies is rather to make warre, and strief against the bishop of Carthage, then against the bishoppe of Rome, as M. Dorman would [Page] haue it. But there was then neither striuyng, nor any othe required, concerning the bishop of Rome, as head of the churche, as by that whole processe in S. Cypriā, Eusebius, and Nicephorus it dooeth plainly appeare. Wherefore M. Dorman maie bee ashamed to forge so manifest a lie, as that Nouatus exacted an othe against the Popes supremacie: or that we folowe Nouatus in exactyng like othe as he did. And seyng that wee doo moste deteste that cruell heresie of Nouatus, and doo firmelie beleue, and earnestlie teache as did S. Cypri­an, and Cornelius, it is as maliciouslie, as vntrulie doen of M. Dormā, not onely to applie to vs the exam­ple of Nouatus othe, exacted for the maintenaunce of his heresies: but also to call Nouatus our auncestor, and our Bishops as his disciples, indurate heretikes: who doo moste abhorre bothe Nouatus, and his heresie, and moste earnestly, and pithilie in all their writyn­ges and Sermons doo impugne the same, by settyng foorth to their power, the vnspeakeable mercie of God towardes all sinners truely penitent. Wherby it maie appeare to the discreate readers, that M. Dorman, and suche other malitious aduersaries, passe not muche whether they lie, or saie truthe, so they maie bryng vs, by hooke or crooke out of credite, and into the hatred of the worlde. I beleue also that M. Dorman in the allea­gation of Nouatus his othe, had a further respecte to that he maketh mention of the bodie & bloud of Christ: by the whiche, because Nouatus caused thē to sweare, M. Dormā thought belike, thereby to proue, or at least to make an insinuation, to the simple, that the bodie and bloud of Christe, should bee corporallie presente in the Sacramente: but the daiely othes of blasphemous men, swearyng likewise in his corporall absence, doo confute that collection. And to the ende, that M. Dor­man [Page 9] should gaine nothyng in that matter of the Sa­cramente, by this place, I haue thought good to admo­nishe the reader, that the said place of Nicephorus and Eusebius (of whom Nicephorus had it) is directlie a­gainst Nicephorus lib. 6. cap. 3. Euseb. lib. 6. cap. 43. their transubstantiation, and for our vsage now in the churche. The woordes of Nicephorus a little be­fore the place by M. Dorman alledged, are these: Quum enim oblationes offerret, qui mos sacerdotibus est, & iam ad distributionem panis peruenisset, data cuilibet parte sua, pro eo quòd cum gratiarum eam actione per­cipere debebant, iurare miseros coegit. Vtran (que) enim percipientium manum comprimens, non prius eas re­misit, quàm iuratū ab eis esset: [vtar autem verbis eius conceptis] Adiura mihi per sanguinem & corpus do­mini nostri Iesu Christi, nunquam te à me discessurum, & ad Cornelium [Romanus hic fuit episcopus] reditu­rum esse. Miseri autem illi non prius quod acceperant, degustarunt, quàm se illi deuouerunt. That is to saie, When Nouatus made his offerynges, as the maner of Priestes is, and nowe was come to the distribution of the breade, he, deliueryng euery one his parte, in the steede of due thankes geuyng in the receiuyng of the same, compelled the wretched menne to sweare: for he laiyng holde on bothe the handes of the receiuers, did not let them goe, vntill thei had sworne: (for I will vse his owne verie woordes) Sweare to me by the bodie and bloud of our Lorde Iesus Christe, that thou wilte neuer forsake me, nor retourne to Cornelius, who was then bishop of Rome. And those wretched mē did not taste that, whiche they had receiued, afore they had by othe assured themselues to hym. &c. Thus farre Nice­phorus. Eusebius, who hath the verie same woordes, calleth it bread also. And so if M. Dormā thought this place by the waie, might serue for their purpose in the [Page] matter of the lordes supper (whiche he here calleth the sacrament of th'altar) he was farre deceiued. For both Nicephorus and Eusebius callyng it after the conse­cration (as thei terme it) bread, and Nicephorus saiyng that thei tasted that whiche thei receiued, that is to say, bread: and by the circumstances it appearyng, that the vse of the primitiue churche than, was agreable to our vse now, in geuyng the Sacrament into the receiuers handes, bothe is their transubstantiation cleane euer­ted, by twoo witnesses, euen by M. Dorman hymself chosen: and wee are declared by the same witnesses, to bee the verie folowers of the primitiue churche, in that vsage of deliueryng of the Sacramente into the recei­uers handes. For the whiche yet thei charge vs, as hor­rible profaners of the holie Sacramente. But to cloke these matters, where Nicephorus calleth it the distri­bution of the breade, M. Dorman calleth it the blessed sacrament of th'altar. And where Nicephorus saith, he gaue euery one his part, before he caused thē to sweare: M. Dormā saith, he caused suche as minded to receiue of hym the blessed Sacramente of the altar, to sweare: where as in deede, thei had receiued it of him into their handes before: as is also in Nicephorus booke in the margente, noted by Ioannes Langus, the translatoure Ioan. Langus. Ea tempestate laicis etiā Eu­charistiaī ma­nus dabatur: quod postea in Ecclesia mu­tatum est. thereof, and councelour to the late Emperour Ferdi­nandus, that the custome of the Churche then was, to deliuer the Sacrament into the receiuers handes. But in deede this is M. Dorman his ordinarie custome in alledgyng of authours, to passe ouer with silence that whiche is againste hym, and to take that whiche ma­keth a shewe for hym, and withall to adde that is not in the authour, in suche sorte, as the ignorante would thinke it to be the authours verie woordes. I knowe, it is impertinente to entreate of the matter of the Sacra­mente, [Page 10] in this controuersie of the Popes supremacie: but M. Dorman, of purpose as it semeth, doeth mingle suche thynges by the waie: whiche, if thei be there an­swered, shal make a mingle mangle of diuers matters vnpleasaunte to the reader: and if thei bee passed ouer not answered, as impertinent to the present treatie, he trusted it would serue to intāgle the simple, and with­all to bee an occasion to his fauourers, to triumphe in the meane tyme, as though wee dissembled the matter by silence, for that wee could saie nothyng to it. But to retourne to the purpose againe: whereas M. Dorman hath here in one halfe leafe, heaped a greate number of euidente lies, as it were, in a packet together, I haue thought good to putte the reader in remembraunce of them, in order as thei lie. The first lie is, that after his discourse out of S. Cyprian, of the Bishop appoincted by God, to be the gouernour and head of the Churche, he saieth, the bishop of Rome is that heade, whereas by S. Cyprian, the contrarie is euident: and that hym­self, 1. or bishop Rogatian is that head, whereof he spea­keth, as hath been fully heretofore declared. The se­conde is, that to make warre againste the Bishoppe of Rome, is the firste entrie to heresie. Whereas S. Cy­prian 2. teacheth, that the contempte of euery godlie bi­shop in his owne diocesse, by suche as are their inferi­ours, is the beginnyng of heresies. The third is, that he saieth: Thus did Nouatus: to witte, that Nouatus 3. made hi [...]yrst entrie into his heresies, by makyng open warr [...] against the bishop of Rome, appoincted by God to be in earth the gouernour and head of the Churche: whiche is a double lie, and maiestande for twoo. For Nouatus began his heresies firste in Afrike, and con­tended with S. Cyprian, before he troubled Cornelius Cyprianus lib. 2. epist. 8. at Rome, as by the testimonie of S. Cyprian is euidēt. [Page] Wherefore his entrie to his heresies, was his proclai­myng of open warre againste S. Cyprian, appoincted by God, to be the gouernour and head of the Churche, as S. Cyprian hymself saieth. The other parte of this lie is, that he saieth, Nouatus made warre against him, as the gouernour and head of the churche: for his wor­des, Thus did Nouatus, must nedes be referred to that whiche wente before: but Nouatus tooke not Corne­lius, but hymself to be bishoppe of Rome, as doeth by the storie euidentlie appeare: wherefore the strief be­twene theim was not, whether Cornelius as bishop of Rome was head of the churche (as M. Dorman would haue it seme) but whether he, or Nouatus were bishop of Rome. The fourth lie is a double lie also: where he reporteth that Nicephorus saieth, that Nouatus hol­dyng 4. betwene his handes, the handes of suche as min­ded to receiue of hym the blessed Sacrament of the al­tar, vsed these woordes. &c. For Nicephorus hath no suche wordes, but he saieth thus: when Nouatus was come to the distribution of the bread, he geuyng euery one his parte, caused them to sweare. &c. And this dou­blelie, the receiuyng of the blessed Sacramente of the altar, in s [...]eede of the distribution of bread, and thei that minded to receiue it, where as thei had receiued it al­readie into their handes, he made of purpose to saue their transubstantiation harmelesse, and to keepe it se­crete, that our vsage in deliueryng the Sacrament in­to the receiuers handes, is agreeable to th [...]rimitiue churche. The [...]ifte lie is, that he saieth, wee doo sweare men in suche sorte as Nouatus did: and that no manne 5. can either gette any liuyng, or kept that he hath with­out makyng of this othe: Meanyng suche as Nouatus exacted. But Nouatus exacted an othe of the Romai­nes to cleaus to hym againste their owne Bishoppe, [Page 11] whiche was vnlawfull. Wée require an othe of sub­iectes Englishemen, of obedience to their and our na­turall Prince, and of renouncyng all forraine and v­surped power. Again Nouatus caused them to sweare that his heresie was the truth, and that Cornelius true doctrine was heresie. Wee haue no suche matters in hande, but are on Cornelius side againste Nouatus, teachyng the same doctrine that Cornelius did, abhor­ryng the heresie that Nouatus taught. Wherefore in this manifolde fable of M. Dormans, amplified by his Rhetorike, looke how often he saieth, so did Luther, so did Caluine, so doo those wicked men in our countrey: as ofte, as he saieth: Thei exacted this othe. &c. If he geue not this othe. &c. So many tymes as M. Dormā doeth repeate these woordes, this and so, so many loude, lewde lies hath he made, one vpon an others backe: whereas in deede it is neither so, nor so.

This M. Dormans deceiptfull dealyng, moste vsual vnto hym, was the cause why I saide once in publike place, that I had not found any one authoritie by him, (as farre as then I had redde) truely alledged, besides his vntrue notyng of the places in y^e margēt. Which, though it sometyme happen by negligence of Prin­ters, M. Dorman yet in this booke, beyng otherwise so diligently printed, maie seme of set purpose to haue doen, lest suche as would be inquisitiue, should to spée­dely finde out the lewdenesse of his allegations, ser­uyng nothyng to his purpose: vnlesse perhappes mai­ster Dorman did neuer vse his owne eyes, in vewyng of these places, but did credite his collectours therein altogether, as in the processe of his doynges doeth cre­dibly appere that he did. For in one leaf, or little more, of foure onely places by hym alledged, three thereof be noted vntruely, that he might therein agree with his Fol. 1. Episto. 11. for 9. [Page] guilefull and vntrue appliyng of places of the doctors Fol. codē epi. 61. for. 69. Fol 2. in prin­cipio, cap. 30. for cap. 3. and authors, altogether impertinente to the matter he treateth of. Whiche as in all places he faileth not to doo, so hath he in this place, as you se, well performed the same. Who also procedyng therein, calleth Noua­tus our ancestour, and our bishops, as his disciples, at his pleasure, he calleth, indurate heretikes: where it is knowen to all that vnderstande, that we most abhorre Nouatus, & his heresies: and goeth on saiyng, that for the onely refusall of this othe, how many notable men of the cleargie, bothe for life, & learnyng, suffer thei to pine awaie in prison? M. Dorman, this othe ye talke of, was neuer required of them: and thei pine not, but fare well, & of other mennes cost too, a great many of them: thei be well fedde, and in good liking: & some of them so fat, as thei maie wallowe too. Thei neither sit, nor hāg in stockes, by legges or fingers, nor haue their neckes in chaines: thei are neither whipped, nor scourged, as some of theim vsed others. In sickenesse tyme thei had their progresses, bothe for health, & pleasure too. Where M. Dorman saith, that gentlemen, laie men, and scho­lers of the vniuersitie are put to the said othe (which in deede is of due obedience to their naturall Soueraine) without all face or colour of law, & for refusing therof are spoiled of ther countrey, and wander in dispersion, lamentyng the miserable estate of their sayd countrey: I doubt not, but had thei refused to sweare to that false Romish vsurper, in y^e time of his tyrānie in England, there would haue béen face and colour of lawe enough founde, to haue spoiled thē of their liues also, by moste cruell death. And suche gentlemen & scholers, as could so easiy sweare fidelitie to suche a forrain false vsurper, & would wāder in dispersiō, rather then take the othe of due obedience of their natural prince, doo worthily wā ­der [Page 12] in dispersiō: & mase more ius [...]ly bewaile their own wicked follie, the cause therof, then the miscrie of their countrey: whiche, thākes be to God, is in no suche case, but in farre better then thei would haue it to bee. Had we feared no woorse at your handes, then any of these, whose case you so lament, doo suffer, we would neuer haue forsaken our natural coūtrey, wandring in farre more miserable dispersion, then you doo: we would in our countrey haue bitterlie lamented, the pitifull case of our countrey, then moste miserably oppressed with Popishe superstition, and forraine tyrānie: and, would you haue been satisfied with our teares, and not haue forsed vs moste cruellie to haue shedde all the droppes of blou [...] in our bodies, and verie hartes, we should not haue thought our selues to haue suffered any persecu­tion at all, but rather to haue receiued greate friende­ship, and curtesie at your handes. But what fables so euer it doeth please M. Dorman to fourge aboute our lawfull othes, and what crueltie so euer he feigneth vs to vse, makyng a greate matter of euery trifle, tou­ching the Papistes, it is true, and to true, that for refu­syng of that moste vnlawfull, and wicked othe of the Popes supremacie, and not acknowledgyng of his v­surped authoritie, a greate number bothe of learned, and vnlearned: as well of the laitie, as of the cleargie: of women, as men: of yong, as old, haue lost not onely their liuynges, and all their goodes, but also as many of them as escaped not out of their countrey into mise­rable exile, were apprehended and caste into moste vile prison, beyng not set, but hanged, as I haue saied, in stockes, and yrons, by feete, handes, and necke. And af­ter long punishmentes, and pinyng, moste painfull, & pitifull also, to al, sauing onely pitilesse papistes, haue finallie loste their liues, beyng most cruelly consumed [Page] by terrible flames of fire into ashes, if thei might ob­teine so muche mercie, as to escape that vsuall, longe, lingeryng, and roastyng in slacke and smokie fire. And yet M. Dorman thinketh it muche that thei, who haue in this wise vsed others, for the refusyng of moste wic­ked othes, and thauthoritie of a false forraine vsurper, should themselues lacke some parte of their liuynges, and libertie, for refusyng to acknowledge the lawfull authoritie of their owne naturall soueraine. And fur­ther, whereas M. Dorman doeth make suche a trage­die, about our moste lawfull othes of due obedience to our naturall soueraine, and of the refusyng of forraine vsurped power: I shall, in place cōuenient, make good proufe, that that false vsurper, the bishoppe of Rome, hath bothe wickedly exacted moste vnlawfull othes, not onely of subiectes, but of Princes, and emperours also: and hath more wickedly dispensed with the law­full othes of subiectes, of obedience to their owne na­turall soueraines, and procured them to rebell against their Princes, to the greate effusion of Christian men­nes bloud, and vtter decaie of all christendome.

Nowell.

M. Dorman would induce the reader to thinke, that Necesse est aut adorare ima­ginem. &c. Et mox vnigenit' blasphematur, Spiritus sanct' ignomi [...]ia afficitur, &c. VVhiche wor­des also do de­clare the leud­nes of M. Dormans transla­tion of Basiles former place, as though the bishop, & not Christe, had been blasphe­med. As is be­fore declared. wée are like to the Arrians in wicked opinions, and in persecutiō of the true churche of Christ: but who so wil read that. 70. epistle of Basill, shall finde it otherwise. We neither worship our selues, nor inforce any other [Page] to worship the Image that Basil treateth of in that 70 epistle: wee are no Idolaters, nor teache false doctrine: we haue not many goddes, lesse, and greater: we abate nothyng (as did the Arrians) but moste to our power set foorth the glorie and deitie of Christ. Let the Papi­stes see that these poinctes touche not thēselues rather. We doo not sequester the holie ghost from the glorious Trinitie, as did those Arrians in saincte Basils tyme: whose mischief, and their owne miserie, he in this epi­stle doeth deplore and bewaile. Wherefore his saiyn­ges in that Epistle apperte [...]ne nethyng to vs, who are nothyng guiltie of those crimes and heresies: but they are brought in by dreaming M. Dorman without any cause, and biside all purpose, sauyng onely that in rea­dyng Hosius Lib. 2. aduer­sus Brentium. Flo. 92. b. he founde this place alledged, & thought good to folowe him therein, and to translate it into his booke. But now touchyng our verie case: why did not these bishops of the Easte write their humble petition, for helpe in their miseries, seuerallie to the bishoppe of Rome, as heade of all the churche: but doo write to all the bishops of Fraunce and Italie indifferently, with­out any mention of the bishop of Rome at al? So farre of is it, that thei made any speciall mention of hym, as the chief or heade ouer all the churche: yea placyng also the bishops of Fraunce, before the Italian bishoppes, The inscriptiō of Basil his. 70 epistle. Pie [...]tis­fimis reuera, ac charistimis fratr [...]bus, & in ministerio cō sortibus vna­nimis, ꝑ Galliā & Italiam epi­scopis, Basilius Caesariae Cap­padociae epis­copus. (though M. Dorman doo craftilie dissemble the same) and callyng them altogether brethren, and felowes in the ministerie, whiche thei would neuer haue dooen, had thei had this opinion of his supremacie, that mai­ster Dorman, and other Papistes doo now defende and mainteine. But in the saied. 70. epistle the saied East Bishops, whiche doo not once speake of the Pope, doo praie the Frenche and Italian bishops, to make hūble sute to the Emperour, that he by his authoritie would [Page 14] represse their enemies the Arriās, and releue their mi­series: whiche maketh rather for the Emperour his su­premacie in the churche, then for the bishops of Rome. Now where M. Dorman speaketh of persecution, as he did a little before of our moste cruell practise, I re­ferre it to the iudgement of all the worlde, whether our aduersaries or wee bee more cruell persecutours: and whether haue suffered more persecution, thei, or wee: and whether thei or we doo come more nere to that ex­ample of persecution, by S. Basill in this. 70. epistle described, I praie thee good reader iudge indifferently. First S. Basill sheweth that the persecutiō was moste Basil. episto. 70. Persequu­tio, & persecu­tionū horren­dissima appre­hendit nos, & afflictiones quas impossi­bile est auribꝰ suscipere, pro­pterea ꝙ nul­lus sermo reperiatur qui de­claret. &c. horrible, cruell, and bloudie, suche as was impossible to be expressed with woordes: and that Maleficus quidem nul­lus. &c. thieues, mur­therers, and other offenders were more reasonablie, and mercifullie dealte with, then godlie men were in that persecution: that thei were apprehended Quidā ne­que nouerunt accusatores &c sed in tempe­sta nocte vio­lenter rapti ī exilium fuga­ti sunt. &c. in the night, and neither knowyng their accusers, nor cōuic­ted of any crime, were banished, or put to death. And that there was continuall Gemitus fi­unt populorū &c.mournyng, weepyng, and sighyng euery where: that because the Quia Chri­stianorum no­men persequē ­tibus incum­bit. &c. persecutours had the name of Christians, thei would not suffer suche as thei put to cruell death, to haue the names of mar­tyres, and that Father Lati­mer, Reuerēde Crāmer, god­ [...] learned Rid [...]y, burned in [...]diche.neither Nō canicies apud iudices iniquitatis ve­nerabilis est. &c. age, and a hoare white heade, neither godlines, and a life vertuouslie ledde had any reuerence with the persecutours. He sheweth that the persecutors were riche & wealthie, but thei No [...] ob tenu­ [...]ate contēpti [...]ertatem di­ [...]endi non ha­ [...]mus. &c. who were persecuted were poore menne, and for their pouertie contemned, not hauyng libertie to speake. He cal­leth this horrible persecution [...] Flagellorū [...]mmae tradi. [...]d Timoth.fire by a figure, but the persecution that wee suffer is by fire in deede, by the whiche our aduersaries trie vs, and sifte vs into ashes: so that saincte Paules prophecie of many, who in the laste daies should be tried by fire, is in deede, and with­out [Page] figure accōplished in vs. Consider I praie you, good readers, these circumstances of moste extreame cruel­tie in those persecutours, whom S. Basill speaketh of, and iudge whether we, or our aduersaries doo the like: and withall consider how reasonablie M. Dorman re­sembleth vs to the saied persecutours, and themselues to them that were so persecuted. Now where he goeth aboute to burthen vs with enuie of Churches, either pulled doune, or altered to other vse, and of their altars destroied (muche like as the rebelles did burthen Hen­rie the eight, in the. 28. yere of his raigne) we make this answere: Truthe it is, that the foundations of Abbeis and Chauntries, Pro redemptione animarum funda­torum The true cau­ses of the ruin of Abbeis. suorum & progenitorum ipsorum. &c. For the redemption of the soules of their foundours, and their progenitours soules. &c. (as in the saied foundations appereth more at large) were so vnsure and weake, or rather wicked, that thei could no longer beare suche huge superstructions and buildynges, as were laied v­pon them. For the Idolatrie, supersticion, hypocrisic, and wickednesse of the Monkes, Nunnes, and Prie­stes themselues were growen so greate, and so heauie now, that no foundacions, though sure and good, were hable any longer to beare and abide them. Let the hor­rible historie of their darke, dreadfull, and moste diuel­lishe dooynges, notified to kyng Henrie the eight, and after to the Parliament house, by the reporte of the vi­sitours, retournyng from their visitacion of Abbaies, and the Monkes & Nunnes themselues, in their owne confessions subscribed with their owne handes, bee a proofe thereof: whiche beyng regestered in a blacke booke, might more iustlie bee called doumes daie, then any recorde this daie remainyng in Englande, reuea­lyng suche matter, as thei had thought should haue re­mained [Page 15] hidde vnto the greate daie of reuelation of all secreates, if euer thei looked for it. Now truly the mon­strous Monachorum monstra mo­nasteria euer­terunt. liues of Monkes, Friers, and Nunnes haue de­stroied their Monasteries and Churches, and not wée. Concernyng their foundations so contrarie to the me­rites of Christ our sauiour, that is come to passe of thē, that our sauiour hymself foreshewed. Omnis planta­tatio. Math. 15. b. 13. &c. Euery plantacion not planted by my heauē ­ly father, shalbe plucked vp by the rootes. Touchyng their impietie towardes God, and wickednesse of life: that is fulfilled, that was foreshewed by the Prophe­tes, Esaie, and Ieremie vpon Babilon and Hierusa­lem: Esaie. 14. d. 19. &. 34. d. 13. Hier. 9. d. 11. & 10 d 21. &. 50. [...]. 40. &. 51. d. 37. and consequently, vpon all wicked cities and pla­ces, where Gods lawe shall likewise bée transgressed: where like Idolatrie, like fornication, bodily and gho­stlie shalbée committed: where shalbée founde like foo­lishenesse, ignoraunce, and blindnesse of the Pastours, heades and rulers, that is to saie: that their busldynges shalbée made heapes of stones: that brambles & briers shall growe, where their pleasaunte lodgynges were: that Oules, night scritches, and Dragons shall make their neastes, and houle and seritche, where the voyce of bankettyng and ioye was wonte to bee heard: and that their houses shall neuer bee builded againe. And that when menne shall passe by, and saie, why hath the Lorde thus dooen to this greate Citie, to these goodlie Abbeies, Nunries, and Fratries? Answere shalbee made, for that thei haue forsaken the couenaunt of the Lorde their God, and haue worshipped straunge God­des, and haue serued theim. These, M. Dorman, be the true causes of suche horrible destructions and desola­cions, as haue in our time come vpon Monasteries, and other houses & churches. Well it maie be, that the Go­spel of Christ (whiche M. Dorman calleth heresie) was [Page] occasion of their ruine, Esai. [...]. c. 14. Luc. 2. [...]. 34. Roma. 9. g. 32. 33. 1. Pet. 2. b. 6. 7. as Christ is the ruine of all in­fidels, or that the co [...]etousnesse of men, seekyng their owne gaine, maie be iudged of many, the cause therof. But the very true causes in déede, of this their subuer­sion, were their wicked foundations laied by their first founders, and the superstructions of Idolatrie, super­stition, hypocrisie, and abominable life, whiche they, falsely named religious men and Priestes, heaped so hugely vpon the saied foundations. Had their founda­tions béen good and sure, had their workes been honest and godlie, thei should by the light of the Gospel haue gotten praise, and honour: and their woorkes had not to their shame been discouered by the light, and by the 1. Cor. 3. c. 13. heate of the triyng fire, vtterly consumed. But beyng as thei were, thei loued darkenesse, thei hated and fled loan. 3 c. 19. 20 the light, leaste their woorkes should bee seen: and be­cause thei could no longer hide so huge wickednesse in so cleare lighte, whiche discouereth euen small blemi­shes: it came to passe that God by his officers, stirred thereto through their counterfeite holinesse, & so dou­ble wickednesse, reueiled by the saied light, executyng his iustice by the fire of his dreadfull and terrible indi­gnation, cōsumed all together: so that the houses were destroied, and thei dispersed. Touchyng the name of altares, whiche M. Dorman so gladlie catcheth holde of here in sainct Basil (as he did before in S. Cyprian) where we call it the Lordes table, we haue for vs good Lib. 3. epist. 9. authoritie. First that Christ instituted the Sacrament at a table, and not at an altar, is moste manifest: except M. Dorman would haue vs thinke, that men had al­tares in steede of tables, in their priuate houses in those daies: but our sauiour expresselie saiyng, that the han­des of hym, who should betraie him, were vpon the ta­ble, Luc. 22. c. 21. taketh awaie all doubtyng. And S. Paule also 1. Cor. 10. c. 21. [Page 16] calleth it Mensam dominicā, the Lorde his table. Sure I am that M. Dorman and all the Papistes with hym can not saie so muche out of the scriptures of the newe Testamente, for their altares, as I haue alledged for the Lordes table: thei maie therefore go and ioyne thē ­selues to the Iewes, as in multitude of Iewishe cere­monies, so in altares also: as it seemeth in déede, thei would bothe become themselues, and make vs too Ie­wes, rather then christiās. If S. Basill, and some other old writers cal it an altar, that is no proper, but a figu­ratiue name, for that as in the old lawe their brent of­feringes and sacrifices were offered vpon the altare, so are our sacrifices of praier, and thankes geuing &c. of­fred vp to God at the Lordes table, as it were at an al­tar. But suche kind of figuratiue speache cā be no iust cause to set vp altares, rather then tables: vnlesse thei thinke that their crosses also should bée turned into al­tares, for that like phrase is vsed of them, where it is saied, Christe offered by hymself vpon the altar of the crosse. Now th'olde doctors doe call it the Lordes table, Chrys. Hom. 18. in. 2. Cor. Augus. Tract. 26. in loan. & multi multis locis. vsuallie, truelie, without figure, and agreablie to the scriptures. Concernyng the spirituall worship or ser­uice of God, or sacrifice, if you will (seyng it is also mē ­tioned in S. Basill) due to be doen at the Lordes table, whiche, as afore is noted, he calleth an altare, it is not lackyng in our Churches at the Lordes table: that is to saie, true repentaunce of harte, whiche is, as the Prophete calleth it, a seruice and a sacrifice pleasaunte Psal. 51. b. 19. vnto God, the offeryng vp of our praiers and praises vnto God: whiche seruice and sacrifice of praise, as the Psalme witnesseth, doeth honour God: and specialie, Psal. 50. c. 14. d. 23. that sacrifice of thankes geuing, moste peculiar to this altare or Lordes table, and to that holie Sacramente, hauing thereof a peculiar name, beyng called with the [Page] Greekes [...], to saie, thankes geuyng, for the gratefull remembraunce of that one Sacrifice offered by our sauiour once for all: whiche sacrifice of thankes Hebre. 10. geuyng wée ioynctly with other present doo offer vp to Christe our sauiour in the memoriall by hym lefte, and by faithe in our hertes doo communicate his precious bodie and bloude, a sacrifice by hymself offered for vs. Neither are our oblations, or offerynges to the poore lackyng, when we come to this altare, which S. Paule philipp. 4. d. 18 also calleth a sacrifice acceptable, & pleasaunte to God: whereas you Papistes haue no suche thyng, but onely the bare woorde Offertorium, without any offeryng for the poore: sauyng that you did not forget to receiue the offerynges for your selues at the vsuall offering daies, and when any Dirige, or Monethes mynde did fall. Thus you se, maister Dorman, that we haue euen that same spirituall worship, seruice, and sacrifice too (if you so will) due to be done at this altare, that is to wit, the Lordes Table, whiche S. Bafill speaketh of here: and any other altare or seruice he meaneth not, nor knewe none. And were you not altogether to grosse, S. Basil so oīte speakyng of spirituall worshipping, and spiritu­all seruice, might somewhat reforme your carnall and sensuall vnderstandyng. You see wee doo not sticke to Spiritualis cultus, spiri­tuales gratiae. graunt you not onely a spirituall worship and seruice, but a sacrifice too, whiche yet hath no neede of your al­tares, framed to your selues vpon this false phantasie, that the bodie and bloud of Christe are there offered by the Priestes for the quicke and deade, with the abuse of that distinction of the bloudie, and vnbloudie offeryng of Christes bodie, applied to the same: whiche is alto­gether a false fable, and a vaine dreame moste mete for M. Dorman. The scriptures doo thus teache vs, that Christ our sauiour once for all offered vp his body and Hebr. 10. c. 10. n. 14. [Page 17] bloud vpon the altar of the crosse, the one and onely sa­crifice Phil. 5. a. 2. Hebr. 10. c. 10. 12. 14. of swéete sauour, to his father: by the whiche one oblatiō of the bodie of Christ, a sacrifice for our sinnes, once for euer offered, and no more to bee offered by any man, we be sanctified and made perfite. Wherfore the popishe Priestes whiche doo repeate often the sacrifice of Christes death, as thei doo teache, thereby, as muche as in thē lieth, doo take awaie the efficacie and vertue of the Sacrifice of Christes death, makyng it like to the sacrifices of the old lawe: the imperfection of which sacrifices, S. Paule doeth proue by the often repetitiō of the same. For the continuance wherof their priestes also needed succession: but Christe is a Priest for euer, without succession, and his sacrifice perpetuall, with­out repetition; as the Apostle plainly teacheth. Our Hebr. 10. c. [...]. seruice and sacrifice now, is the often and thankful re­membraunce of that onely sacrifice, in the receiuyng of the holie Sacrament at the Lordes table, accordyng to his owne institution: Hoc facite in memoriam mei: doo this in remembraunce of mée: with spirituall fea­dyng by faithe also vpon that his moste precious bodie and bloud, so by him for vs offered. Touching the pul­lyng 4. Reg. 18. c. 22 4. Reg. 23. 2. Para. 14. a. 3. 2. Para. 17. b. 6. 2. Para. 31. a. 1. 2. Para. 34. a. 4 doune of your altares, I answere: thei are iustlie destroied, as were those wicked altares by Asa, Iosa­phat, Ezechias, Iosias godlie kinges of Iuda destroied. For as abominable Idolatrie was committed on, and before your altares, as euer was vpō and before those. If you require proufes hereof, you shall haue them in their due places of the Masse, and of Idolatrie to Ima­ges. In the meane season, if you thinke it enough, one­lie to call vs heretikes, and to affirme that wee pollute suche Churches, as yet remaine, with schismaticall ser­uice, and diuelishe doctrine: and that we doo accompt hymnes in the night, and holie daies to be superstitiō: [Page] If you M. Dormā, thinke it enough onely to saie thus, to proue nothyng, to raile muche: seyng all is not Gos­pell, that Dauus or Syrus dooe speake in plaiyng their partes, lette it serue me at this presente also, to saie the contrary: that wee teache no doctrine, but suche, as is a­greable to God his woorde, and therefore be no [...]ereti­kes: that wée haue, and keepe our Sabboth daies, and holie daies too, aswell as euer did the Papistes: and doo sing as good and godlie himnes in the daie, as euer did thei your Nightyngal [...]es, in the darke, and better too. And when wee haue bothe thus saied, to leaus the iudgemente of bothe our saiynges to the discreate reader for this tyme, rather then continuallie, at euery occasion by you catched, to make a confusion of diuers matters, which it seemeth, you haue purposely sought. And thus farre to that, whiche M. Dorman hath alled­ged out of S. Basill, as againste vs. And I doo muche maruell that he did not rehear [...]e these woordes of sainct Basill in the same place also. Vnum est crimen. &c. to saie: There is one faulte whiche is now vehementlie condemned and punished: to witte, the diligente obser­uation of the tradicions of the fathers. These are sainct Basilles woordes in effecte, whiche omitted by maister Dorman, doo signifie that either he redde not the place hymself, or was more then halfe a sleape when he did reade it, els would he neuer haue let it so escape hym. But wee answere to suche as haue alledged it. The traditions of suche fathers as wer S. Basilles fathers, and liued in the primitiue Churche, wée esteme as wee ought to doo. The traditions of our later stepfathers, vnborne long after S. Basilles death, who be the chil­dren of that stepdame the Popishe Synagoge, wée cō ­temne and condemne, for that thei haue preferred their saide traditions, before the lawe of God, and the insti­tution [Page 18] of our sauiour Christe. And thus muche for our agréement with S. Basill. Now whē M. Dorman be­side S. Basill, & besides the booke too, as thei saie, affir­meth, that learned mē are depriued of their liuinges, & Shomakers, weauers, Tinkers, Ruffians, Felons, &c. put in their places, it is but a floorish of his Rhetorike: he is not able to name any one suche in a learned Papistes roome, or any of suche dishonestie, as ruffians, or felons in our ministerie: though it be not vnknowē, that there hath been great plentie of popishe priestes, bothe felōs, and traitours too. But if M. Dorman will make a rea­sonable cōparison, he must compare the learned of our side, with the learned of their sorte: or their vnlearned sir Ihons, with our poore ministers. And I doubte not, though our Bishoppes bee not so well learned in Ca­non Lawe, in matters of contention aboute worldlie controuersies, in bearyng of temporall office, and au­thoritie, and in comelie courtlie behauiour, and world­ly pompe, as are their Bishoppes: yet in all kindes of learnyng, maners and qualities, by S. Paule in the 1. Timo. 3. 2. Tit. 1. c. 7▪ office of a Bishoppe required, there shall bée founde as many learned bishoppes, and as able, and willyng to doo the dueties of good and godlie bishoppes [per se, nō per alium] emongest vs euen at this daie, as euer were emongeste the Papistes, or in Englande, fith the firste Bishoppe was created in it. And I trust likewise, that our Cleargie, nexte vnder our bishoppes, shall not bée founde any whit inferiour in learnyng, nor honestie of life, to theirs. Therfore M. Dorman, whē it pleased you to saie, that Cowheardes, and Broume men, are placed in learned mennes roumes, you doo but fable, as you are wonte to doo. And that wée lacke a greate many of learned men to furnishe all ecclesiasticall offices, wée maie thanke you Papistes, who haue moūe crnellie [Page] consumed so many of them to ashes, and therby driuen vs to supplie small cures with some honeste artificers, exercised in the scriptures: whom, neither sainct Peter the Fisher, nor saincte Paule the Tente maker (who Ioan. 21. a. 3. Act. 18. a. 3. bothe vsed their artes after their calling to the Apostle­ship) would so despise, as doo you M. Dorman. And I doo muche meruaile of your iudgement, who doo place Peter the Fisher in the higheste roume aboue all Bi­shoppes, and can not suffer other honest artificers, suf­ficiently exercised in the Scriptures, to haue any place at all in the inferiour ministerie. Whiche honest poore men, if thei haue succeded in the places, not of learned men, as you doo vntrulie saie, but in the steede of your Popishe sir Ihons lacke latin, & all good learnyng, and honestie too: who tooke the chaunge of our Churche Seruice, from Latine into Englishe so greuouslie, for none other cause, but for that thei could reade no En­glishe, a greate many of them, whē thei were put to it (suche greate clerkes thei were) and were otherwise, by triall founde, in all qualities farre more meete to be Tinkers, Cobblers, Cowheardes, yea Swinehear­des, and Bearewardes too, then ministers of Christes Churche: no good and godlie man can therefore iustlie bee offended with suche chaunge, though M. Dorman storme neuer so muche thereat.

Nowell.

M. Dorman faieth, you haue heard out of saincte Cyprian, that with the banishing of that one bishop, (meanyng the bishoppe of Rome) the diuell beginneth, & bringeth in all miseries afterwarde: but you haue séen it plainlie declared, that in al those places, alledged by M. Dorman out of S. Cyprian, there is not one worde written or meant of the bishoppe of Rome, but of Ro­gatian, and of S. Cyprian hymself, beyng bothe Bi­shoppes of Afrike. And where he saith, that all miseries haue russhed in vpon vs, with the banishyng of that one Bishoppe, and heade, and onely saith so, I doo saie the contrary is moste true: and will also in place of this treatie cōuenient, not onely saie, but proue, that where the Pope hath had the greateste authoritie, there hath he brought in with hym, as well all miseries, mischie­ues, and destructions vpon the common wealthe: as al­so all superstitions, hypocristes, errours, and Idolatries into the Churche. And for this present tyme, it shall be sufficient to admonishe the reader, that in all respectes wée bee now in farre better case without the Pope, in more quietnesse, peace, securitie, plentie of thynges, &c. then wee were of late vnder the Pope: and that there­fore, M. Dorman doeth moste euidētly and falsly fable, when he saieth, that a thousande and more miseries haue rushed into this realme, with the refusall of that one bishoppe and heade.

Nowell.

It is none otherwise confessed by other moste aun­cient fathers, then you haue alreadie heard it confessed by S. Cyprian, and Basill, whom he hath without all shame alledged for that purpose, whereas thei speake not one woorde of that matter, neither acknowledge any suche heade. And as thei remained in the Churche of Christe, neuer acknowledgyng the bishop of Rome, as heade of the Churche: so doo wee, likewise re [...]ectyng his falsly vsurped supremacie, nothyng doubt, but wée remaine in the Churche of Christe, whose sworne ene­mie we doo knowe that false vsurper to bée, and there­fore none of Christes Churche: so farre of is it, that he can be the heade of the same.

Nowell.

Maximus, Vrbanus, and Sidonius (whom M. Dor­man Nicephorus lib. 6. cap. 3. meaneth) neither reuolted from the Churche, by contemnyng, and not acknowledgyng this heade, he speaketh of: nor retourned to the Churche againe, by acknowledgyng of any suche heade. For in those daies Cornelius, bishoppe of Rome, was not acknowledged to bee heade of the Churche, by any man liuyng: suche ambition, and false vsurpation of the bishop of Rome, to bée heade of the Churche, beyng vnknowen to Cor­nelius, then bishoppe of Rome, and to all other bishop­pes of Christendome also. But to make the truthe in deede knowen to the reader how these menne reuolted from the Churche, and how thei retourned, I shall out of saincte Cyprian, and histories Ecclesiasticall, declare Eusebi. lib. 6. cap. 43. the veritie of the matter. After the death of Fab [...]anus bishoppe of Rome, Cornelius was lawfully chosen by Nicephorus lib. 6. cap. 3. Cyprianus li. 3. episto. 13. ad Stephanum li. 4. epist. 2. Ad Antonianum. the cleargie and people, to be his successour there. No­uatus, who was of that opinion, that suche as for feare of tormentes and death, had renounced the Christian saithe, though thei repented therefore, were not to bee receiued into the Churche againe, made a greate stirre against Cornelius, who with saincte Cyprian, and all catholike bishoppes, helde the contrary: that is to saie, that the Penitentes ought to be receiued after due dis­cipline executed vpon them. But the faction of Noua­tus waxyng greater, Nouatus, or (as saincte Cyprian saieth) Nouatianus, would haue intruded hymself, in­to [Page] the Bishoprike of Rome, and tooke hymself, and was taken of his faction, to bee lawfull successour of Fabian, and the true bishoppe of Rome: and Corneli­us to be an vsurper, as one that did communicate with suche as had renounced their faith. Wherevpon grew this question and controuersie, whiche of them two [...] was a catholike bishoppe, holdyng the truthe, and tru­ly and lawfully chosen by God: and whiche was the intruder, and not of the Catholike churche, but an he­retike. And amongest others, Maximus, Vrbanus, and Eusebi. & Ni­ceph. vt supra. Sidonius, priestes of Rome, ioigned themselues to No­uatus, against Cornelius, holdyng Nouatus opinion, and takyng hym for their Bishoppe. And thus thei re­uolted by fallyng to heresie, and refusyng Cornelius their bishoppe, and by ioignyng themselues to Noua­tus an vsurper and heretike, and not by deniyng Cor­nelius, as bishop of Rome, to be the head of the churche▪ as M. Dorman fableth. But afterward Maximus and his felowes repētyng their deede, did forsake Nouatus Cyprianus li. 3. epist. 11. as an heretike and vsurper, and retourned to Corneli­us againe, as their true Bishoppe, to ioigne in faithe and communion with him, as with a catholike bishop, or a Bishoppe of the catholike Churche, whiche is all one. And thei doo acknowledge that he was erected by God into that Bishoprike of Rome: and so consequen­tly, Nouatus to be a false vsurper and heretike, and so no bishoppe of the Catholike churche. Wherefore it is euident, that when M. Dorman saieth, that those men retourned againe to the Churche, by this waie, that is to saie, by acknowledgyng Cornelius to bee the heade of the vniuersall churche, he saieth moste vntruly. And hath corrupted, and translated this place falsely, remo­uyng the woorde sanctissimae from his place, and in steede of, Cornelium episcopum sanctissimae catholicae [Page 21] ecclesiae, Cornelius a bishoppe of the moste holie catho­like Churche, as saincte Cyprian doeth write, he hath Cornelium sanctissimum episcopum ecclesię catholicę, Cornelius the moste holie Bishoppe of the Catholike Churche, to make a better shewe for his purpose: as though Maximus, Vrbanus, & Sidonius, with others, had acknowledged Cornelius to be erected by God al­mightie, to bee the moste holy Bishoppe of the Catho­like and vniuersall Churche, and so to make for his su­premacie ouer the whole Churche. Whiche is neither written here, nor els where, neither euer was meante by Maximus, or his felowes, nor by saincte Cyprian hymself. But this is the true sense of those woordes. Nos Cornelium Episcopum sanctissimae Catholicae ec­clesiae, erectum à deo omnipotente, & Christo Domi­no nostro scimus. &c. Wee acknowledge Cornelius to be a Bishoppe of the moste holie Catholike churche, erected by God almightie, and Christe our Lorde. &c. as if thei had said more at large, where we before tooke Cornelius to be an vnlawfull vsurper, and to commu­nicate with those that had renounced their faithe, and therefore to be no member of the moste holy Catholike churche: now we acknowledge hym to be a Catholike Bishoppe, by God erected, and that we were deceiued before in ioignyng with Nouatus againste hym. And that this is the true sense of that place, saincte Cyprian hymself in his epistle to Stephanus sheweth, writyng thus of that same matter: Non potest à quoquam no­strum illi communicari, qui episcopo Cornelio in Ca­tholica Lib. 3. epist. 13. ecclesia dei iudicio, & cleri, ac plebis suffragio ordinato, profanum altare erigere, & adulteram Ca­thedram collocare, & sacrilega contra verum sacerdo­tem sacrificia offerre tentauerit. That is: None of vs cā communicate with hym, who hath attempted to erecte [Page] a profane altare, and an vntrue chaire, againste bishop Cornelius, ordeined in the catholike churche by Gods iudgemente, and by the election of the Cleargie and people: and hath attempted to offer sacrilegious or wic­ked sacrifice against the true Prieste. Thus farre sainct Cyprian. Whereby you maie see, that he calleth not Cornelius here the bishoppe of the Catholike churche, but Bishoppe Cornelius ordeined in the Catholike churche by God his iudgemente, and the election of the Cleargie and people. And this is all one in sense and meanyng with the other. For Episcopus Catholicę ec­clesiae, and Episcopus in catholica ecclesia, be as muche to saie, as Catholicus Episcopus, a catholike bishoppe, and not the Bishoppe of the Catholike or vniuersall Churche, as M. Dorman would haue it. For this be­yng in controuersie, whether Cornelius or Nouatus was the true and Catholike Bishoppe, or Prieste, and whiche was the vsurper and heretike: here doo Maxi­mus, and Vrbanus with others confesse, that Corneli­us was the Catholike bishoppe. Wherefore M. Dor­man in translating the saied place so, that it maie seme to make for the Popes supremacie, and by the waie re­mouyng this woorde Sanctissimae from the Catholike churche, to attribute it to Cornelius (by like to make a shewe that the title of Sanctissimus was of olde apper­tsining to the bishoppe of Rome) doeth herein like him self. Now, concernyng that whiche foloweth in their confession: VVe bee not ignoraunte, that there is one S. Cyprian his phrase of one Bishop of, or in the church, orīa church. God, one Christe our Lorde, one holie Ghost, and that there must be one bishoppe in the Catholike churche. or more truely, in this place, in a Catholike Churche. This M. Dorman did not doubte, but that the simple sorte would take it to bee a moste plaine proofe, not of Cornelius supremacie onely, but ex abundāte, that he [Page 22] alone was that one Bishoppe, whiche ought to be one­ly in the whole Catholike Churche: for so it semeth by his marginall note, of one God, one Bishoppe &c. he meaneth. But I trust, that fewe will allowe M. Dor­man, euen of those that be of his own part, if he would so wrest sainct Cypriā, that as there is one onely God, and none but he: so there should bée but one onely Bi­shoppe, and no mo but he. Whereas nothing lesse was meant by them, that made this confession, nor by sainct Cyprian, who maketh reporte thereof. For firste, Ma­ximus and his felowes, whiche had before ioigned thē selues to Nouatus, who chalenged to bée a true catho­like bishoppe, and bishoppe of Rome also, doo now ac­knowledge Cornelius to be the true bishoppe: and be­cause there can be no moe bishoppes in any one catho­like churche but one, therefore now affirmyng Corne­lius to be that one Bishoppe, thei doo reiecte Nouatus as no bishoppe, but an vsurper: and thereby acknowe­ledge, that there ought to bee but one bishoppe in that catholike churche. And so nothyng lesse is meant here, by one bishoppe, then one head bishoppe ouer all other bishoppes: muche lesse is meant one bishoppe alone of all the Churche, as there is one onely God ouer all: as it maie seme that M. Dorman would gather. For the declaration whereof, it is to be noted, that when sainct Cypriā speaketh of one bishop of the catholike churche, he meaneth no one speciall Bishoppe ouer all, but in­differentlie all, and euery catholike bishop throughout the vniuersall churche: for that thei haue euery of them the full possessiō of one onely bishoprike. Whiche as it is but one throughout all the worlde, so hath euery bi­shop the same, wholie, and fullie. So that when sainct Cyprian speaketh of one Bishoppe onely to rule the Churche, he meaneth the Bishoppe of that Diocesse, [Page] whiche he then entreateth of, who so euer, and of what countrey so euer he be: as here in this epistle, he mea­neth Cornelius: and in his epistle to Pupianus, by the Lib. 1. epist. 5. said one bishop, appoincted by God to rule the churche, he meaneth hymself beyng bishop of Carthage. For in bothe places he hath the same woordes, of one bishoppe Lib. 4. epi 9. appointed to rule the Churche, by the contempte of the whiche Bishop, heresies doo spryng, or arise. This re­maineth yet more fully to be declared, as well by Cor­nelius, as by saincte Cyprian hymselfe in other pla­ces. First Cornelius writyng to Fabius Bishoppe of Antioche (as Eusebius testifieth) hath these woordes Histor. eccle­siasticae libr. 6. cap. 43. concerning this verie matter. Vindex ille euangelij (de Nouato loquitur) ignorauit vnum esse debere episco­pum ī catholica ecclesia, in qua nescit (quomodo enim sciret?) presbyteros esse. 46. diaconos 7. hypodiaconos 7. acoluthos. 42. &c. that is to saie: this defendour of the Gospell (he speaketh of Nouatus) was ignoraunt that there ought to be one Bishop in a Catholike churche, In catholica ecclesia. in y^e whiche he knoweth not (for how should he know) that there be. 46. Priestes. 7. Deacons, 7. subdeacons, 42. inferiour ecclesiasticall ministers, or seruiters. &c. Thus farre Cornelius. By whiche woordes it is eui­dent that the Catholike churche, whereof Cornelius and Cyprian doo speake, and wherein there muste bee but one bishop, is not the vniuersall churche through­out the worlde, as M. Dorman would haue it (vnlesse he thinke that 46. Priestes, and 7. Deacōs maie suffice the vniuersall Churche for ministers, as well as one onely bishoppe is sufficiente for the heade of the whole Churche, for the one is as reasonable as the other) but the catholike churche that Cornelius speaketh of here, is the particular churche of Rome: in the which as one bishop, so also 7. Deacons might suffice. Whiche par­ticular [Page 23] churche is by Cornelius here, & by S. Cyprian, and other auncient doctors of the churche in their wri­tynges, called Catholike, because it professed & taught the catholike faithe, and to notifie it from schismaticall or heretical churches. And any other particular church teaching the catholike faithe, may in like maner be cal­led a catholike churche, or y^e catholike churche of suche a citie, or countrey. Now cōcernyng S. Cyprian, he de­clareth in many places, that euery Bishop in his owne diocesse hath the full possession of y^e bishoprike, whiche is one throughout all the worlde, & therfore is the one­ly bishop and head of that his owne Catholike church: as namely in his epistle to Antonianus, where he hath these woordes. Vna est Ecclesia, à Christo per totum mundum in multa membra diuisa: item episcopatus v­nus, episcoporum multorum concordi numerositate diffusus. &c. That is to saie: there is one churche, from Christ throughout the whole worlde diuided: likewise one bishoprike, spread abroade in the agreable multi­tude of many Bishops. But S. Cyprian declareth his minde moste plainly of this one bishoprike, wholy and equally possessed of all and euery bishop, in his booke De simplicitate praelatorum, not farre from the begin­nyng, writyng thus. Vnum corpus, & vnus spiritus, Cyprianus De simplicitate praelatorum. vna spes vocationis vestrę, vnus dominus, vna fides, v­num Baptisma, vnus deus. Quam vnitatem firmiter te­nere, & vindicare debemus, maximè episcopi, qui ī ec­clesia praesidemus, vt episcopatum quo (que) ipsum, vnum at (que) indiuisum probemus. Nemo fraternitatem men­dacio fallat, nemo fidei veritatē perfida preuaricatione corrumpat. Episcopatus vnus est, cuius à singulis in so­lidum pars tenetur. Ecclesia vna est, quae in multitudinē latiùs incremento foecunditatis extenditur: quomodo solis multi radij, sed lumen vnum: & rami arboris mul­ti, [Page] sed robur vnum, tenaci radice fundatū &c. Whiche is to saie: There is one bodie, and one spirit, one hope of your vocation, one Lorde, one Faithe, one Baptisme, one God. The whiche vnitie we must firmely hold and mainteine: speciallie wee Bishoppes, whiche doo go­uerne in the Churche, that we maie proue the bishop­rike it self also to bee one, and vndeuided. Let no man by liyng deceiue the brotherhodde: let no man corrupte the veritie of faith by false preuarication. There is one Bishoprike, parte whereof euery man hath wholie, or In solidum. more plainely, there is one Bishoprike, whiche euery bishop hath wholie for his part. There is one churche, whiche is spread abroade by increase of fruictefulnesse into a multitude: as there be many beames of the sūne, but one light: many braunches of the tree, but one bo­die of it, staied vpon a sure roote. &c. Thus farre saincte Cyprian, with muche more processe to proue the vnitie of the churche, and the vnitie of one bishoprike, whiche euery Bishop wholie hath for his parte: and so conse­quentlie, all Bishops to be equall. Wherefore maister Dorman hath in vain noted in the margēt of his booke in this place, One God, one Christe, one holie Ghost, one Bishoppe: as though the Bishoppe of Rome were that one Bishop, and none but he: as there is one one­ly God, and none but he. Where as that place of sainct Cyprian (as by conference with this place appeareth) proueth, that though there be one bishoprike through­out all the worlde, yet are there many bishops, and that euery one, in his owne Diocesse, hath the whole pos­session of that one Bishoprike: and that therefore there is an equalitie of all Bishops, and so consequently, no superioritie of any one ouer all, as M. Dorman would haue it. For if euery Bishop haue in solidum, that is to saie, fullie, and wholie that one Bishoprike, or bishop­lie [Page 24] function and office, as S. Cyprian saieth, no one cā haue more, then the whole, and therefore, no one can be aboue all other. Whiche maie appeare more plainlie, by the comparisons of one faithe, and one Baptisme, whiche saincte Cyprian in the same place vseth. For as there is but one faithe, though there be many faithfull persones: one Baptisme, though many Baptised: so there is by sainct Cyprian his iudgement but one Bi­shoprike, yet be there many Bishops: whiche one Bi­shoprike is equallie, and wholie diuided emongeste all the said Bishops: as faithe and Baptisme are equally, and wholie diuided emongeste the faithfull Baptised: and yet remaineth still but one Bishoprike, as there doeth but one faithe, and one Baptisme: for that eue­ry bishoppe hath that one bishoprike wholie: as euery true faithfull hath the one christian faithe wholie: and In solidum. euery one, that is duely Baptised, hath that one Bap­tisme wholie. And consequently it foloweth, that as no one man hath any superioritie in Baptisme, or faithe, aboue other truely faithfull, and Baptised: so hath no one bishoppe any superioritie ouer other bishoppes, for that euery bishop hath that one bishoprike wholie, and therfore none hath it more then other, but be all equall In solidum. in office and authoritie. This is S. Cyprian his minde of one Bishopricke, whiche euery bishop hath wholie, and equallie, and is therfore in his owne Diocesse the one onely bishop in the catholike Churche to gouerne the same. Whereby any manne, but of meane vnder­standyng, maie well perceiue, that this saiyng of one bishoppe, vsed by sainct Cyprian, maketh nothyng for the bishoppe of Rome his supremacie, but directlie a­gainste it: makyng all other bishops equall with hym: as thei, whiche haue in solidum, wholie, that one Bi­shoprike, as well as he. And therefore when sainct Cy­prian [Page] nameth one bishop in the catholike church, or of a catholike churche, he meaneth the bishop of that spe­ciall diocesse which he entreateth of, of what countrey so euer it be, as here he meaneth Cornelius: and by the like wordes in other places, he meaneth other bishops, and of other diocesses. Whiche is moste euident by the like wordes, of one Bishop who gouerneth the church, vsed by the same saincte Cyprian, in this epistle to Pu­pianus. His woordes be these: Episcopus, qui vnus e [...], & ecclesiae praeest, cōtemnitur. &c. The Bishop which Libr. 4. epi. 9. is one, and gouerneth the Churche, is contemned and sette at nought. &c. Where it is moste euident, that by that one Bishop, who gouerneth the Churche, and is contemned, he meaneth himself, beyng bishop of Car­thage, and by the saied Pupian despised, as is at large alreadie declared. Whiche place yet M. Dorman alit­tle before alledged for the supremacie of the Bishop of Rome as leudelie, as he doeth this place here. To con­clude, Maximus, and his felowes had a controuersie with Cornelius, altogether diuers from our cōtrouer­sies with the Popes of Rome: and therefore, their exā ­ple apperteineth nothyng to this case of the Popes su­premacie, then neither mooued, nor knowen. And it is no meruaile, if that Maximus, Vrbanus, and Sidonius beyng priestes of Rome, & there hauyng with Noua­tus, Eusebi. lib. 6. cap. 43. beyng hymself Priest of Rome also, made so great stirre and businesse against Cornelius, recōciled them­selues to Cornelius the Romaine bishop, beyng their own bishop: whiche apperteineth nothyng at all to vs, who haue nothing to doo with the bishop of Rome.

Nowell.

Vrsatius, or Vrsitius, and Valens, in their recanta­tion Socrates lib. 1. cap. 27. Nicephorus lib. 9. cap. 13. &. 27. make nothyng for the Bishop of Rome his supre­macie, but rather against it. Thei write to hym, as thei vse to write to any other bishoppe: their inscription is, Ad Iulium Episcopum Romanum, to Iulius the Ro­maine bishop. Thei vse these woordes: Bonitatis tuae literis in hanc sententiam traducti. Wée were brought into this minde or iudgemente by the letters of your goodnesse. Apud humanitatem tuam profitemur. We doo professe vnto your humanitie or gentlenesse. And, pietas tua, your godlinesse: and suche like, whiche are no woordes of supremacie. For that thei call hym once Tom. 2. Aug. episto. 183. Augustino e­piscoporū sum mo: & mox, venerabilis papa &c. beatissimum dominum papam, the moste blessed lorde Pope, maketh nothyng for his supremacie: vnlesse it make for sainct Augustine bishoppe of Hippo in Afrike his supremacie also, who is not onely called venerabi­lis papa, honourable Pope, but also the highest of al bi­shops. But M. Dorman hymself confesseth somwhere I trow, this name Papā, pope, to be cōmen in that time to all bishops, and therefore vnmeete to proue the su­premacie of any one. But if he thinke the titles added, Most blessed Lorde, doo make the worde Papam, Pope, to bee singular, and for the supremacie: thereto I doo answere: First, it is euident that this worde dominus, Lorde, or sir, is vsed not onely to all bishops, but to all Popishe sir Ihons also, who yet haue no supremacie at all. And I am contente that this woorde, Beatissimus, moste blessed, maie serue M. Dorman his purpose here, so that he will admitte it likewise in other places: as in this, emongest other. All the Priestes and Deacons of [Page] Rome call Cyprian Bishoppe of Carthage, Beatissi­mum, Lib. 2. episto. Cypriani, epi­stola. 7. in fine & gloriosissimum Papam: the moste blessed, and moste glorious Pope. Loe Maister Dorman, here is a double epitheton and title, for your single. Lette the bishop of Carthage then haue the supremacie with the bishoppe of Rome: or let the bishoppe of Rome go [...] without it, with the bishoppe of Carthage. But if this make for Iulius bishoppe of Romes supremacie, that Vrsatius, and Valens offered vp their recantacion to hym, as M. Dorman taketh it to doo: lette it also make for Athanasius bishoppe of Alexandria his supremacie, to whom in like maner thei offer vp their recantation also, as is recorded in the same place. The cause con­cernyng Nicephor. lib. 9. cap. 27. Vrsatius and Valens standyng thus, M. Dor­man abuseth the readers to muche, to geue them a dor, with a matter nothyng to the purpose: saiyng, So did Vrsatius and Valens, and so to passe ouer without fur­ther declaration, or as muche, as once noting the place, where the matter might bee founde. Whiche M. Dor­manne hath doen of set purpose and knowledge, that it was nothing to the purpose, that thei did, and that him self alledged. And yet herevpon, as vpon good proues and declarations, he concludeth thus. By this meanes retourned thei to the Churche, by this muste you re­tourne, that haue straied, if you will bee saued. I tooke my Harpe into my hande, and twange ꝙ my stryng a.

Nowell.

You haue declared nothyng at all, your Doctours The summe of all hether­to alledged & saied by mai­ster Dorman. saie nothyng for you, your allegations, and examples are altogether impertinente. Rogatians deacon be­yng an African, muste reconcile hymself to his owne bishop an African: Pupianus ought to reconcile him­self to sainct Cyprian bishop of Carthage. For the first places alledged out of saincte Cyprian, perteined one­ly to them twoo, disobedient to their owne bishops be­yng Africanes. Saincte Basill speaketh of the Easte churche, and bishops: Nouatus sweareth men to sticke to his heresie, and to take hym, and not Cornelius for their bishop: Maximus, Vrbanus, and Sidonius Prie­stes of Rome, reconcile themselues to Cornelius their owne Romaine bishop, whom thei had vniustly forsa­ken: Vrsatius, and Valens, offer their recantation, and be reconciled to Iulius bishop of Rome: thei doo in like wise to Athanasius Bishoppe of Alexandria. For thei tooke Arrius the heretikes parte against them bothe, & had greatly vexed them bothe, and therefore were thei reconciled to bothe: as al christians are likewise bound to reconcile themselues, not onely to Bishoppes, but to all other, whom thei haue offended or wronged. What rime or reason is it therefore, for M. Dorman togather hereof the Bishop of Rome his supremacie, as he hath gone about in this his Introduction, whiche he might better haue named a Seductiō, as in y^e whiche, he hath proued nothyng, railed muche, lied more, deceiued fie­lie soules, abused the wise, & better occupied readers. And as there is not one place, hitherto by M. Dorman alledged, apperteinyng to his purpose, nor any one sentence of his voide of liyng: so shall you in the sequele of this treatie finde hym no chaun̄gelyng.

Nowell.

You haue doon like a wise manne, and vsed herein more discretion, then did your maister D. Hardyng, who hath made this matter of the Popes supremacie, but as a common matter, and as the Latines saie, vnā ex multis, one of many: Where in deede, as you hau [...] well considered, it is the chief foundation of all Pope­rie, your Religion, the comforte and staie of all Papi­stes, vsurpyng falsely the name of Catholikes: the ter­rour and worldlie vndooyng of all those, whom it plea­seth you to call heretikes, holde thei neuer so muche with Christ and his Gospel, agree thei neuer so muche with his true, catholike, & aunciēt Apostolike churche. For maie you once establishe the Popes aucthoritie, not to bee denied: his supremacie, not to bee disobei [...]d: you haue wonne all, you neede no Scriptures, no in­terpretation of Doctours, no assemble of Counceiles: Sexto Decret. lib. 1. tit. 2 ca. licet. Roman' pontifex iura oīa in scrinio pectoris suicē ­setur habere. Vide Platinam in vita papae Pauli secundi. all is in the boxe of the Popes boosome: (as the Popes themselues, Boniface the eight, and Paule the second with others doo bragge) he is all in all: he saith it, ego it must needes bee beleued: for Fides Petri non deficit, Peters faithe faileth not: as Pighius out of Eckius, Hosius lib 2. contra Bren­tium fol. 83 a. &. 86. a. b. Hosius out of Pighius, and D. Hardyng fol. [...]5. b. D. Harding out of Hosi­us haue alledged: whiche yet apperteineth as muche to the Pope, as doeth a Saddle to a Sowe. Likewise, the Pope commaundeth it, ergo it must be obeied: For be is the iudge, and finall determiner of all matters, as [Page 27] M. Dorman hath M. Dorman fol. 7. a. &. 9. b & 12. a &. 62. b often alledged for the same pur­pose, out of Deuteronomium. If it please the Pope to offer his feete to Emperours & Kinges of the worlde to kisse: or if it stādeth further with his pleasure to treade on their neckes, as he serued the Emperour Frede­rike: or if he haue a likyng to their crounes and kyng­domes, as he had to the croune of Englande in kyng Ihon his time: or liste he to depose kynges and Empe­rours, as he hath deposed many: yet maie he neither be disobeied, nor denied in his will and luste. For as Pi­ghius to that purpose hath alledged, Qui superbierit Pighius Hie­rarch. lib. 6. ca. 13. fo. 323. d. nolens obedire. &c. He that waxeth proude, and will not obeye the commaundemente of the high Prieste for the tyme beyng, lette hym dye by the decree of the iudge. And peculiarlie, that he maie so tread vpō Em­perours and Kynges neckes, that in so doyng he doeth but right, appereth by this texte, alledged for that pur­pose by Pope Alexander the thirde: Super aspidem & Basiliscum ambulabis &c. That is to saie: Thou shalt walke vpon the Adder and Basiliske: thou shalt tread vpon the Lion and Dragon. And his right to all kyng­domes, & that in askyng of them he dooeth but aske his owne: and that he maie make, and depose kynges, and bestowe kyngdomes at his pleasure: and that he hath bothe the swordes, and the right of bothe the heauenly Extra. Ioannis 22. tit. 5. cap. 1. Sifratrum. Ex­tra. cōm. lib. 1. de Maiorit. & obediētia. cap. vnan: sāctam. and earthly Empire, is proued by these speciall textes alledged by Pope Boniface the eight and other Popes for that purpose: Ecce duo gladij hic. Beholde twoo swordes here. Et ecce, constitui tesuper gentes, & re­gna &c. Ieremi 1. Beholde this daie doo I sette thee ouer the people and kyngdomes, that thou maiest roote out, breake of, destroie and make waste, & that thou maiest builde vp, and plante. And by this texte alledged by Platin. in vita Gregorii. 7. Pope Gregorie the .vij. Quicquid ligaueris aut solueris [Page] in terra &c. What soeuer thou doest binde or loose v­pon the earth, shalbee bounde or loosed in heauen. Of whiche woordes the saied Pope maketh this collectiō, that if thei maie binde and loose in heauen, thei maie muche more in earth take awaie, and geue Empires, Kyngdomes, Principates, and what soeuer mortall men els haue, and so foorth, as foloweth in Platine, moste worthie to bee read. And the same is proued al­so by this speciall texte, to the like purpose alledged by Pope Iulius the thirde: Gens & regnum quod mihi non seruierit, peribit. The nation & kyngdome whiche shall not serue me, shall perishe. Whiche sentence also The inscripti­on of pope Iu­lius the third his coigne. for more suretie, the said Pope caused to be stamped in his coigne. Finally whatsoeuer it shal please the Pope to doo, to the burte of mennes bodies, or losse of their gooddes and possessions, yea or to the eternall damna­tion D [...]stin. 40. ca. Si Papa. Ex­tra. Ioann. 22 Tit. 4 cap. 2. in schol [...]is. of their soules, be thei neuer so many, yea bee thei innumerable, yet maie no mortall man blame hym, no man maie bee so bolde to saie: Domine cur ita facis? Lorde why doe you so? Wherefore, notwithstandyng saincte Paules boldenesse with Peter the Popes pre­decessour, as he saieth, wee are [...]ow without all reme­die against the Pope, what errour so euer he doo teach, and what mischief so euer he doo: and wee must rather suffer our selues and infinite thousandes to b [...]e dam­ned, then to bee so bolde as to alledge any scriptures, though moste manifestlie contrary to suche the Popes saiynges, and doynges: Suche as emongest others, are these: Principes gentium. &c. That is to saie, Princes of nations beare rule ouer them, but it shall not bee so Math. 20. d. 25. Marc. 10. f. Lucae. 22. c. emongest you, but he that will bee the chief emongest you, let hym bee your seruaunte: and he that will bee greate emongest you, let hym bee your minister: euen as the soonne of man came not to bee ministred vnto, [Page 28] but to minister vnto other. And againe, Nolite vocari Rabbi &c. Vos omnes fratres estis. Be not desirous to Math. 23. b. be called Rabbi, for one is your maister, to wit Christ, and ye are all brethren: bee not called maisters, he that is greateste emongest you, shalbee your seruaunte: for whosoeuer exalteth hymself, shalbe brought lowe, and he that humbleth hymself, shalbée exalted. Et ne sitis ceu dominium exercentes in cleros. Bee not as those 1. Petri. 3. who exercise dominion ouer the people, or, as Lordes ouer Parishes. For so is it trāslated also. If we (I saie) shall alledge these, and suche like Scriptures againste suche vsurped tyrannie and false wrestyng of the scrip­tures, wee shall gaine nothyng thereby, but onely to be accompted here [...]ikes, for not obeyng the voice of the high Priest, who alone can tell the sense and meanyng of the scriptures, accordyng to this texte: Legem requi­rent ex ore sacerdotis: thei shal require the lawe at the mouthe of the high Priest: without whose interpreta­tion, the scripture is but the dumbe and deade letter, a rule of Leade, a nose of waxe, flexible what waie you Pighius Hie­rarch. libr. 3. cap. 3. f [...]. 103. d liste bou it. If we further doo bryng the olde Doctours of the Churche, by whose interpretations it is declared that these scriptures doo serue directly against suche v­surped rule and dominion: as sainct Augustine, alled­ged in the Popes owne Canon lawe, teachyng that, E­piscopatus operis, non honoris nomē est: a Bishoprike [...]. Quaest. 1. ca. Qu [...] episcopa­tum. is a name of woorke, not of honour. And S. Hierome likewise alledged in their owne Canons, willyng bi­shops to knowe that thei bee Ecclesiasticall ministers, Distinct. 95. cap. Esto. and not Lordes: where he bringeth for hym the fore­saied place of S. Peter. And the scholies of that Canon do [...] note it to be written against the pride of Bishops: and that where thei call their inferiours, children, thei ought to call them brethren. And the same place of S. [Page] Peter, S. Bernard likewise alledgeth to Pope Euge­nius, & willeth hym, as Peters successour, to heare Pe­ter, Epistola. 237. ad Eugenium 1. Petri. 5. 2. Cor. 1. yea and Paule also, bothe ioinctly warnyng him to auoide the vsyng of dominion and Lordeship ouer the Churche. And telleth hym that if he bee sent by Christ, he is sent to serue, & not to be serued. And exhorteth him not to be presumptuouslie wise, but to feare: and war­neth hym to beware of bribes, & to weigh the causes of the Archbishop of Canterburie, & the bishops of Win­chester and Yorke, not by money (accordyng to the cu­stome of the courte of Rome) but by equitie. For these Prelates at that tyme pursued their controuersies in the courte of Rome. And the same saincte Bernard v­pon De consi [...]era­tione ad Eu­genium lib. 2. Lucae. 22. this place afore alledged out of saincte Luke, The kynges of the earth haue dominion ouer them. &c. hath these woordes. It is plaine: dominion is forbidden vn­to Apostles. Goe therefore and be so bolde, saieth sainct Bernarde to Pope Eugenius, as to vsurpe to thy self either the Apostleship vsyng dominion: or dominion, Vsurpare aude aut dominans Apostolatum, aut Apostoli­cus dn̄atū. &c. Si vtrunque si­militer habe­re voles, per­des vtrunque. Osee. 8. beyng Apostolike. Doubtlesse thou art forbidden the one or the other. If thou wilte haue bothe a like, thou shalt lose bothe. And so foorth, telling hym plainly, that if he will needes raigne, he shalbe of that compainie of whō God speaketh by y^e Prophet: Thei haue raigned, but not by me: thei haue been Princes, and I haue not knowen them. And if suche seueral testimonies of doc­tours maie not serus vs, if we for further proufe bring a number of doctours ioinctly agreyng together, & for­biddyng bishops suche tyrannicall dominion ouer the churche of God: as did saincte Cyprian in the Councell of Carthage, with the allowance of the whole Coun­cell then, and with the approbation of saincte Augu­stine afterwarde, and an other whole Councell also: The woordes spoken by saincte Cyprian in the saied [Page 29] Councell, and by so many Bishops and Doctours al­lowed, are these. Nemo nostrum episcopum se episco­porum constituit, aut tyrannico terrore ad obsequen­di Cyprianus in concil. Carth. in initio. Au­gusti. lib. 2. de bapt. contra Donatist. ca. 2. necessitatē collegas suos adigit, quando habeat om­nis episcopus pro licentia libeitatis, & potestatis suae arbitrium proprium, tanquàm iudicari ab alio nō pos­sit, cum necipse possit alterum iudicare. That is to say: None of vs maketh hymself Bishop ouer Bishops, or doeth by tyrannicall feare force his felowe Bishops to the necessitie of obeiyng: seyng euery Bishop hath for his libertie & power his free iudgement, as he who can not be iudged of an other, neither can himself iudge an other Bishop. Thus farre saincte Cyprian and saincte Augustine.) Wee shall profite, I saie, no more by the allegations of Doctours, yea or whole Councelles, thā by the allegation of the Scriptures themself, againste the Popes saiynges or doynges, what so euer thei bee. Neither the texte of the scriptures, nor the interpreta­tion of Doctours, nor iudgementes of Councelles can haue any credite againste hym. For as Pighius the principall Doctour of the Popes part saieth: In conci­lijs Hierarch. lib. 6. cap. 1. fol. 275. b. vniuersalibus vniuersis haud ferè aliud factum est, quàm vt conuenientes ex toto orbe episcopi, praeiudi­catam iam Apostolicae sedis vnanimi consensu ample­xarentur & sequerentur sententiam, nec in eis defini­tum aliquid, quod non iam praeiudicatum antè defini­tumque esset à sede Apostolica. That is to saie: In all generall Councelles, for the moste parte, nothyng els is doen, but that Bishops comyng together out of all partes of the worlde, should embrace and folowe with agreable consent, the foreiudged and afore determined sentence of the Apostolike see: and that nothyng was defined in suche generall Councelles, the whiche was not before defined and foreiudged by the Apostolike [Page] see. Thus farre Pighius: who also affirmeth in the same place, that the onely iudgement of this one see is more sure, then the iudgement of an vniuersall Coū ­cell of the whole worlde. Wherby it maie well be vn­derstāded, what labour and coste euen by the Papistes themselues is loste, and how in vaine their Bishoppes take suche paine to come to Councelles out of all par­tes of Christendome, leauyng their cures vncared for, and vnlooked tos, and that sometyme a sorte of yeres together: as of late thei haue doen, in the laste Triden­tine councell, onelie to determine thynges alreadie de­termined, The Triden­tine Councell beganne anno 1545. & ended anno 1563. in the whiche tyme thei sate at Trident se­uen yeres. and that therefore thei should like wise men keepe themselues at h [...]me, and spare suche trauell and coste, and onely herken what is pronounced out of that sacred mouth of the Pope at Rome, and it to obeye ab­solutely. And the same Pighius afterward in an other place saieth expresly. Huic Hierarc. li 6. ca. 13. fo 323 c. The same doth M. Dorman teach fo. 62 b. out of pope Inno­centius his epistle. sedi authoritas componen­di & definiendi exortas i domo ecclesiastica vniuersas questiones & controuersias, ab eodem Christo est data: tibi verò illius definitionibus & iudicijs abs (que) vlla dis­cussione est imposita obsequendi necessitas. That is to saie: The authoritie of orderyng, definyng and de­terminyng of all questions and controuersies risen in the Churche, is geuen by Christe to this see of Rome: and vpon thee is laied a necessitie of obeiyng all defini­tions and determinations of the saied see, without any examinyng or discussing of y^e same. These be Pighius woordes also. No meruaile therefore, if you doo well cōsider the premisses, that M. Dorman calleth the Po­pes supremacie, the fundation of al. Naie, it is the fun­dation, superstruction, batilmentes, garnishinges, and all together: it is all, and all in all. For were this one article of the Popes supremacie with the appurtenaū ­ces, as I haue said, once obteined, you neede not to tra­uell [Page 30] in writyng any more: you neede not to bryng any proufes out of the scriptures, Doctours or Councelles for you, or againste vs any more: for it were concluded at once, that you be the Catholikes, who doo acknow­ledge the necessitie of obeiyng the voice, the determi­nations, and definitions of that high Prieste, without whattes, or whies, without discussyng or examinyng of them by your selues, or with others: and that we bee the heretikes, who doo not obeye his voice, beyng a­gainst Goddes voice: but are so bolde to examine, how his voices doo agree with Gods voice. And therefore are we worthie to dye moste cruell death, due to suche false heretiques. Graunte this one proposition of the Popes supremacie with the appurtenaunces, I saie, and by and by, all that M. Dorman hath hitherto most leudlie alledged, or shall alledge hereafter, for the Po­pes supremacie, is to the purpose: all lies he hath alrea­die made, and shall hereafter make for that purpose, are truthes. And whatsoeuer we saie to the contrarie, what scriptures, what Doctours, what Councelles so euer we bryng, all is to no purpose, nor of any credite: for he alone is iudge, whose the cause is: he alone, as your greate Doctour Pighius saieth, is more to be be­leued, then a generall Councell of the whole worlde assembled. And therefore hath M. Dorman doen like a wise manne, to entreate first of the Popes supremacie, and in the treatie thereof to spende more paper & ynke, more oile and labour, as thei saie, yea twise as muche, as he hath doen in the other three principall matters, though otherwise the greatest of all other, as touching euen the verie Masse it self, whiche as it hath hitherto susteined the Pope, and all his Cleargie: so if the Pope doo not now by his supremacie and irrefragable au­thoritie (susteined by maister Dorman, like a friende at [Page] néede) susteine the Masse againe: it maie come to passe, that bathe Pope and Masse, will come to nought shor­tly. Now foloweth the diuision of M. Dormās treatie.

Nowell.

And I folowyng your order, M. Dorman, doo af­firme, and will proue the contrarie, to all, and euery pointe of your diuision: that is to witte.

Firste, that it is not profitable, muche lesse necessa­rie, that the Churche of Christe here in earth should 1 haue one chief heade, and ruler vnder Christe, to go­uerne the same: and that for diuers, and sundrie vrgent and moste weightie causes.

Secondarilie, that no prieste can bee any suche one 2 heade of the Churche here in earth.

Thirdly, that of all priestes, the bishop of Rome can not be that heade: for that he is no Bishop, but rather a 3 temporall vsurper, and tyraunte, contrary to Gods ex­presse [Page 31] woorde: and that all suche places, as are by you, M. Dorman, and others alledged out of the scriptures and doctours, for the said bishop of Rome his suprema­cie, apperteine nothyng at all to that purpose.

Nowell.

M. Dorman doeth well begin with this part firste, to proue that there must of necessitie be one chief heade and gouernour of the whole Churche vnder Christ: for if there ought not to be suche an one heade and gouer­nour at all, he did well perceiue, that consequently the bishop of Rome could not be that head and gouernour. Wherefore it being throughly proued, and manifestly declared, that M. Dorman faileth in the proufe of this first pointe (as I doubt not but it shal bée so proued and declared) I truste that all wise men shall vnderstande, that this first and principall part, and staie of the whole beyng ouerthrowen, his whole treatie of the bishop of Rome his supremacie shall altogether fall to grounde with it, without any further batetrie to y^e same, or vn­derminyng thereof to be made.

Nowell.

Of the estate of Gods people in the olde lawe, who, [Page] as thei were one seuerall people, so had thei one highe prieste: what can you gather further, but that likewise in euery Diocesse or countrey, it were good to haue one chief prelate, or bishop to rule in the cleargie? Whiche we denie not, nor euer did deny. But of this matter M. Dorman geueth vs occasion to sa [...]e more hereafter.

Nowell.

This reason he had in D. Hardyng his booke, who borowed it of Pighius, whiche beyng taken out of S. Cyprian his epistle to one Pupianus, thei haue violē ­tly wrested to a wrong sense. For S. Cyprian maketh this reason directlie againste them, for the proufe of his Cyprian. lib. 4. episto. 9. owne authoritie, being bishop of Carthage, and for the authoritie of euery Bishop in his owne diocesse. Now to the matter. VVho is so blinde? ꝙ M. Dorman: now [Page 32] surely I truste, no man is so blinde, but he can see that M. Dorman reasoneth blindlie, and without all reason gatheryng thus: that because euery kyngdome hath his seueral kyng, euery people, citie, toun, village, house, yea euery companie of the eues, & robbers, haue their seuerall gouernour, or heade: put to and you will also, (as dooeth saincte Cyprian, out of whom D. Hardyng and M. Dorman vndiscreatly tooke the occasion of this argument) euery hiue of Bees hath his capitain Bee: therefore should it folowe, that all Churches, or the whole churche dispersed throughout the whole world, muste haue one heade. You should M. Dorman, if you would haue reasoned reasonably, haue taken aswell saincte Cyprian his conclusion, as you haue taken his antecedent, and haue concluded with him, Ergo in like wise euery diocesse, and euery Churche ought to haue their seuerall heade prelate, or bishop, who is to bee o­beyed by all their owne cleargie: and wee would haue graunted the cōsequencie, and consequent as thei saie. For by this meanes saincte Cyprian concludeth, that Pupianus did wickedlie in disobeiyng sainct Cyprian hymself, who was his bishop. But neither saincte Cy­prian, nor any other learned man doth vse these exam­ples or similitudes any where, to proue that there ought to be one head or gouernour ouer all churches, or the vniuersall churche: but hath the cleane contrary, saiyng thus. Singulis pastoribus portio gregis ascripta Lib. 1. epist. 3. pagin. 10. est, quam regat vnusquisque, & gubernet, rationem sui actus domino redditurus. That is to saie: A portion of the Lordes flocke is appointed to euery pastour by himself, the which euery one ought to rule & gouerne, who shall geue accompte of his doyng to the Lorde. And so foorth, moste plainlie againste the supremacie of one: and for that due gouernmente of euery bishop ouer his [Page] owne ture. This is saincte Cyprian his reason, this is his conclusion, M. Dorman. But if you like your con­clusion so well, that you will nedes cōclude, that there ought to bee one generall heade of all Churches, you must thus begin. As there is one generall gouernour or kyng ouer all the worlde, one generall head ouer all people, all cities, tounes, villages, and houses: one ca­pitaine thief and robber, ouer all thieues and robbers: one kyng Bee, ouer all hiues of Bees, throughout the whole worlde: so muste there bee one onely heade in earth ouer all Churches throughout the worlde. But as no man is so blinde, but he seeth the falsehood of this antecedent: so is (I trust) no man so blinde, but he séeth the absurditie and inconsequencie of your former con­clusion, of one generall heade ouer all Churches, ga­thered out of an antecedent, and vnlikely similitude of the seuerall gouernours that euery kyngdome, coun­trey, people, citie and toune, and euery companie of menne seuerally haue. I merueile he alledged not Ho­mer the Poete, and Aristotle the Philosopher also for the Popes supremacie, as dooeth his maister D. Har­dyng, D. Hardyng fol. 81. b. who hath these woordes: It is not good, saieth Homere, to haue many rulers, lette one bee ruler. It is true, that Homere saieth, it is not good to haue many equal rulers ouer one countrey, or nation: but this ma­keth nothyng to proue that there should bee one heade ouer all the Churche throughout the worlde: excepte D. Hardyng can proue that Agamemnon was kyng of all the worlde, or at the least, that Homere meant he should so bee: but he meante nothyng lesse, for he spea­keth of the gouernemente of the armie of the Greekes onely. And so I graunt it is good likewise, that one bi­shop doo gouerne one diocesse: as it was good in Ho­mers iudgemente, that one graunde capitaine should [Page 33] gouerne the Greeke armie. And thus muche by the waie to D. Hardyng his Poeticall argumente for the Popes supremacie. Now seyng it pleased doctor Har­dyng to make mention of Aristotle, who misliketh not Aristocratie, that is to saie, the gouernyng of the beste and wisest men, beyng a competente number: and se­yng further, that many cities haue been and bee farre better gouerned in Democratie, by many rulers cho­sen of the people, then euer was the whole churche by one Pope: It is presumptuouslie doen by M. Dorman, bothe against his maister doctor Hardyng, and against Aristotle so noble a philosopher, and to zelously, for one Pope, to safe thei be all blinde, that can not see the ne­cessitie of one onely head gouernour euery where. And it maie seme to some, that suche kinde of speache doeth not so muche spryng out of absurditie of the matter, as out of the disposition of M. Dormans drousie head, and dimme sight. Let vs in Englande bee in that poincte of the best iudgement, and in the beste case (as we be in déede) vnder so moderate a Monarchie: and yet let them withall, who haue of long tyme been vnder the quiete gouernemente of many reasonable rulers, neither bee starke blind, neither (though not in so happie a state as are we) yet in no vnhappy case, as it semeth M. Dormā would place them. But let euery nation & citie thinke it self moste happie in that state of regiment, that God hath placed it in. And concernyng the gouernement of the vniuersall Churche, seyng it standeth of so many, or rather innumerable thousandes of menne and wo­men of al countries, nations, and languages through­out the whole worlde, so that it can not possiblie be ru­led and gouerned by one, neither was it by God ap­poincted to bee by one gouerned, no more then the whole worlde it self, the seuerall kyngdomes, & coun­tries [Page] thereof being appoincted by God to seuerall kyn­ges [...]ccl. 17. b. 14. and gouernours. Yet if it must nedes be gouerned by popes, seyng it nedeth many gouernours, I would we had many Popes, were thei good gouernours: but beyng, as thei are, false vsurpers and cruell tyrauntes, one Pope is to many by one. Concernyng the auoy­dyng and quietyng of Schismes and troubles in the Churche, we saie, that as the seuerall kynges of euery kyngdome, the seuerall gouernours of euery countrie and citie &c. are able to ouersee their seuerall charges, and to kepe their people in ciuill order and peace: so are the seuerall Bishoppes of euery diocesse, and the seue­rall chief prelates of euery prouince able to auoide, or to appeace, if thei rise, all schismes and troubles eccle­siasticall: as saincte Cyprian, out of whom this reason is borowed, and falslie wrested by thē to an other pur­pose, dooeth moste plainlie teache, saiyng thus: Cum statutum sit omnibus nobis &c. Whereas an order, Cyprianus lib. 1. epist 3. pagi [...]. 10. saieth saincte Cyprian, is taken emongest vs all, and it is right and reasonable, that euery mannes cause be there heard, where the fault was cōmitted: and wher­as euery Bishoppe hath a part of the flocke assigned to hym, whiche he ought to rule and gouerne, and for the whiche he muste g [...]ue an accompte vnto the Lorde, it is not conuenient that suche as bee vnder their gouer­naunce should runne from one Bishoppe to an other, but there to make answere in their causes, where thei maie haue accusers, and witnesses of their crimes. Ex­cepte suche desperate persones thinke the authoritie of Bishoppes in Afrike to bée lesse, then is the authoritie of other Bishoppes. Thus farre saincte Cyprian: with muche more in the same place, expresly affirmyng that it is right and reason that seuerall Bishoppes haue the gouernemente of seu [...]rall diocesses, euen for the same [Page 34] cause, for the whiche you doo vntruely alledge the ne­cessitie of one heade: and declaryng the commoditie of pacifiyng of heresies, Schismes, and dissentions (for of them he speaketh in that place) and of correctiō of vices by euery suche seuerall Bishoppe in his owne charge, mosie directlie against D. Hardyng and M. Dormans doctrine of pacifiyng of schismes by one onelie head of the vniuersall Churche: affirming all suche appellati­ons from a Bishoppe of one countrey, to a Bishoppe of an other countrey to be vnlawfull, for that all Bishop­pes of all countries be of like authoritie: and that none but naughtie and desperate menne, doo thinke the au­thoritie of some bishoppes, to be inferiour to the autho­ritie of other. And further, folowyng D. Hardyng, and M. Dormans owne groundes, wee saie: that as God is the one heauenlie kyng ouer all the worlde, and yet hath not appoincted any one man to bee his onelie de­putie in earth ouer all the Kyngdomes of the worlde: but that the whole worlde is gouerned by his proui­dence, as the onelie kyng thereof, and by the ministerie of many seuerall kynges and rulers, whom he hath se­uerally Eccl. 17. b. 14▪ Rom. 13▪ [...]. appoincted ouer euery nation, as his deputies, as is expreslie declared in the scripture: so in like wise is Christe the onelie heauenlie heade of his Churche, and neither neadeth, nor hath appoincted any one per­sone in earth, to bee his deputie or vicar generall ouer all the churche throughout the worlde: but by his pro­uidence, and the ministerie of many Bishoppes, his se­uerall vicars in euery diocesse, bothe hath, and dooth well gouerne his Churche: and that as it is impossible, that there should bee one onelie earthlie kyng ouer all the worlde, (as by the state of the worlde, from the be­ginnyng hitherto, is moste manifest) and in case there were one, yet were it impossible for that one to ouersée [Page] his charge, and to keepe all the worlde in Ciuill order (seyng the wisest kinges that be, haue of one particular kyngdome their handfull as thei saie) so in like maner is it impossible, that there should be one generall head in earth ouer the vniuersall Churche, or all Churches dispersed throughout all the world, conteinyng so ma­ny nations, so diuerse languages, and natures of men: or that suche an head could ouersee his charge, & keepe all Churches from Schismes and troubles, and pacifie them when thei were risen. This, as a thyng tried by the state of the worlde at this daie, and euer sith the first beginnyng thereof, I leaue to thy reasonable conside­ration, good reader, to determine betwixte vs.

Nowell.

M. Dorman maie bee carelesse, no man taketh the Popes supremacie to be his deuise and inuention: it is knowen to bee the inuention of the ambitious Popes themselues, whom the diuell hath set a woorke to trou­ble the quiete state of Christendome, and to bryng all errours into Christ his Churche, and to laie the foun­dation of the kyngdome of Antichrist.

Nowell.

Either M. Dorman had not with sufficient diligēce reade and noted that long epistle, written by sainct Cy­prian to Cornelius Bishop of Rome, or els he deepely dissembleth that, which he there perceiued. For though the epistle be written to Cornelius, yet it is for a great parte writtē of Cyprian hymself: and many of the sen­tences in that epistle, yea & this verie sentence, whiche M. Dorman here alledgeth for Cornelius his supre­macie, as Bishop of Rome, by the tenure of the epistle appeareth to bee written speciallie of saincte Cyprian hymself, Bishop of Carthage in Afrike, rather then of Cornelius, as afterward at large shalbe declared. And further it appeareth that this sentence, and all other sentences of the authoritie of the Prieste, or Priestes, Bishoppe, or Bishoppes (for saincte Cyprian in that epistle doeth ofte chaunge the number, and sometyme speaketh as of one, sometyme as of many, or all Prie­stes and Bishoppes) doo indifferentlie appertaine, as well to euery, and all Bishoppes of all cities and dio­cesses, as to either Cornelius, or Cyprian. For that he here saith Sacerdoti dei non obtemperatur, The priest of God is not obeied, is asmuche as, Sacerdotibus dei, [Page] the Priestes of God are not obeied. As when the scrip­ture saieth, Regem honora, honoure the Kyng, is as muche, as though it had saied, Let subiectes of all pla­ces, honour their kynges. Touchyng these woordes, Neque vnus in ecclesia ad tempus Sacerdos, & ad tem­pus index vice Christi cogitatur: that is to saie, Neither is one Prieste in the Churche for the tyme, and iudge for the tyme in Christes steede thought vpon. I haue declared at large before, how that saincte Cyprian ta­keth all Bishoprikes, to be but one Bishoprike, as the faithes of all men, are but one faithe. Vnafides, saieth sainct Cyprian, vnum baptisma, vnus episcopus, cuius à singulis in solidum pars tenetur. There is one faith, Lib. de simpli­citate praela­torum, non procul ab in­itio. one Baptisme, there is one Bishoprike, the whiche e­uery Bishoppe hath wholie for his parte. So that whē he speaketh of one Bishoppe, one iudge in the churche for the tyme, or of the bishop whiche is one, and ruleth the Churche absolutelie, he meaneth euery Bishop in his owne di [...]cesse without exception: if he speake speci­allie, he doeth meane the Bishop of that citie or diocesse wherof he entreateth, whether it be y^e bishop of Rome, Carthage, or any other place. For the moste manifest proufe whereof, note these woordes of saincte Cyprian to Pupianus, who was stubborne againste the saied Cyprian, whereof it hath been before entreated. Vn­de enim schismata &c. Whereof saieth sainct Cyprian Lib. 4. epist. 9. doo heresies and Schismes spryng, but of this, that the Bishoppe whiche is one, and ruleth the Churche, is through the proude & arr [...]gant presumption of certain contemned, and set at nought: and beyng the man by Goddes approbation allowed and honoured, is of vn­woorthy men iudged. And a little before this place: T [...] te episcopum episcopi, & iudicem iudicis ad tempus à deo dati cōstituis. Thou doest make thy self a Bishop [Page 36] ouer the Bishop, and a Iudge ouer the Iudge by God for the tyme appoincted. Thus muche saincte Cyprian to Pupianus, who despised the saied Cyprian, so ap­poincted by God to be the Bishoppe, and Iudge for the tyme, as he there saieth. Now in his epistle to Corne­lius, he saieth thus: Neque enim aliunde &c. Neither doo heresies arise, or schismes grow, of any other cause, but hereof: that menne obeie not the Prieste of God, nei­ther dooe thinke that there is in the Churche, in the steede, and place of Christe, one Prieste, one Iudge for the tyme. Compare now these twoo places together, and you shall finde them all one in effecte: And that S. Cypriā, nor any other could haue vttred in diuers pla­ces, one sense more nearelie, vnlesse he would haue v­sed the same woordes altogether. But it is moste ma­nifeste to all men, that will reade these epistles, that in the first place, by the bishoppe whiche is one and ruleth the Churche, by the man by Goddes approbation al­lowed, by the cōtemnyng of whom, heresies and schis­mes doo spryng and arise, by the Bishoppe or Prieste, and by the Iudge for the tyme by God appoincted, S. Cyprian hymself beyng Bishop of Carthage is ment: and by hym, that despiseth the saied Bishop, is Pupian meant, who did despise the saied S. Cyprian. Where­fore either it muste folowe, that saincte Cyprian is the heade of the vniuersall Churche, seyng those woordes, whiche by M. Dormans iudgemente appoincted that head, apperteine to him: orels, as the truthe is in déede, that any Bishop is called by saincte Cyprian, the Bi­shoppe whiche is one, and ruleth the Churche, or the iudge for the tyme in the Churche in Christes steede or place (for all is one) and that then the speciall bishop of that place whiche is intreated of, whether it be Rome, Carthage, or any other, is meant: and so consequentlie [Page] euery Bishop in his owne diocesse, is that one Bishop that ruleth in the churche: and that iudge for the time, in the steede of Christe. And that in this place, saincte Cyprian meaneth no supremacie of any one Bishop, but the equalitie of all Bishops, it maie bee moste eui­dent to them, that will read the whole epistle, and note how ofte he speaketh of all Priestes, and Bishops. As, Sacerdotibus tantus honor conceditur: so great honor is geuen to Priestes: and immediatlie before the place by M. Dorman alledged, are these woordes: Sacerdo­talis authoritas, &, Sacerdotum hostes: That is to saie, the Priestlie authoritie, and, the enemies of Priestes. Also these woordes nexte folowing the same place: Sa­cerdotum collegium: & mox, Sacerdotes. i. dispensato­res dei: the Colledge or companie of Priestes: and, the Priestes, that is to saie, Gods dispensers or stewardes. If thei will in readyng the epistle note these, and many like phrases, thei shall easelie perceiue this also, whiche M. Dorman alledgeth, to be spoken of the authoritie of many, and not of one onelie. And if it bee to tedious to peruse the whole epistle, if the readers will but caste their eye vpon the shorte argument of the epistle writ­ten by Erasmus, who was no vnskilfull, or negligent vewer of the writynges of the olde fathers (and whose authoritie M. Dorman vseth in this booke against vs) thei shall easilie vnderstande the same. Erasmus his woordes in the argument, or summe of this epistle, are these: Ostendit praetereà, qualiter sacerdotalis authori­tas, & potestas, diuina dignatione firmetur: & inde ab­ortas haereses, & nata esse schismata, ꝙ dei sacerdotibus obtemperare noluerint. Saincte Cyprian doeth shewe (saieth Erasmus) how the Priestlie authoritie and po­wer, is by Gods goodnesse established: and that here­sies Diuina di­gnation [...]. and schismes dooe arise hereof, that thei will not o­bey [Page 37] the Priestes of God. Thus farre Erasmus: who speaketh, as you see, of the verie place here by M. Dor­man alleged. And if M. Dorman had read and mar­ked but this shorte argumente of that epistle, thereby might he haue vnderstāded, that this place by hym al­leged for the supremacie of one, to witte Cornelius as Bishop of Rome, perteineth to the authoritie of all the Priestes of God, aswell as to hym. And that sainct Cy­prian Lib. 4. epist. [...]. meaneth that euery one Bishop should bee ruler onelie in his owne diocesse, and that no one Bishop or other manne should bee ruler and iudge ouer all other Bishoppes, appeareth by his woordes, wherewith he blameth Pupianus for that presumption: Tu te epis­copum episcopi &c. Thou doest make thy self a bishop ouer the Bishop, and a iudge of the iudge, by God for the tyme appoincted. These are sainct Cyprians woor­des, with whom in this case sainct Augustine doeth a­gree: Augu contra Donatistas de baptismo. lib. 2. cap. 2. ex e­pistola Cypri­ani ad Quin­tum. who (as is before noted) reporteth, and alloweth these woordes of sainct Cyprian. Neque quisquam no­strum episcopum se esse episcoporum constituit. &c. That is to saie, none of vs maketh hymself Bishop o­uer Bishoppes, or doeth by tyrannicall feare force his felowe Bishoppes to the necessitie of obeiyng. Seyng euery Bishop hath of his libertie and power, his owne free iudgemente, as he who can not be iudged of an o­ther, neither can hymself iudge an other: lette vs then looke all for the iudgement of our Lorde Iesus Christ, who alone hath power bothe to place vs in the gouer­naunce of the churche, and to iudge of our actes. Thus farre saincte Cyprian and faincte Augustine: by whose iudgemente you see, M. Dorman, how the Pope hath vsurped a tyrannie ouer other Bishops, in takyng v­pon hym to be Bishop ouer all Bishops, and iudge o­uer the Iudges appoincted for the tyme in Christes [Page] steede: and that you mainteine the saied tyrannie.

Nowell.

I trust it is sufficientlie and moste euidently decla­red, that euery Bishop in his owne diocesse, is that one Priest, whom all must obeie: and that this place apper­teineth to any Bishop of any place, as well as the Bi­shoppe of Rome. But whereas M. Dorman would so [...]aine haue these woordes of saincte Cyprian, Vnus in ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos &c. whiche is to saie, one [Page 38] Prieste and one Iudge in the Churche for the tyme in the steede of Christ, to proue that there ought to be one heade Bishop ouer all the Churche: if that, to gratifie M. Dorman, were graūted hym: where vpon he would gather consequentlie, that Cornelius, as Bishoppe of Rome, should bee that one heade, as to whom, and of whō this place is written (as M. Dorman thinketh): if it be declared by the verie place it self, that these wor­des bée spoken and meant of saincte Cyprian hymself, and not of Cornelius: and so consequentlie the supre­macie of the Churche by their owne reason, to bee re­moued from Rome, to Carthage in Afrike, where no Christian Churche now is, maie not M. Dorman, D. Hardyng, and Hosius, who doo al so confidentlie allege this place for the Bishop of Rome his supremacie, bee either ashamed of their greate folie, or els declare their shamelesse impudencie? For declaration whereof, I saie, that as this thirde epistle of the first booke is writ­ten to Cornelius, then Bishop of Rome: so is a greate parte of the saied epistle written of saincte Cyprian his owne affaires, and of the iniuries doen to hymself, by the heretikes, bothe present in Afrike, and of their rai­linges against him in his absēce, as appeareth by these woordes, about a side of a leafe in folio, from the begin­nyng of the epistle. Quae autem sui elatio, quae commi­nantium tumens, & inflata, ac vana iactatio, illic absen­ti minari, cùm hic me habeāt in potestate praesentem? What a presumption of themselues i [...] this, what a swelling and puffed, and vaine braggerie is this, there to mannesse me beyng absente, when as thei haue me here presente in their handes? By these woordes of S. Cyprian it appeareth euidentlie, that here he speaketh of hymself, beyng despised, and in his absence railed v­pon by certaine of his owne inferiours: and so goeth on [Page] with a longe processe, and with many allegations out of the scriptures, and reproueth that damnable vice of a proude and slaunderous toungue. Emongest other places he allegeth this texte. He that saieth thou foole to his brother &c. is guiltie of hell fire: whereof he in­ferreth, how can thei then escape the iudgemēt of God the auēger, who spake suche thinges not onelie to bre­thren, but also to Priestes? And so procedyng alledgeth out of the Scriptures againste those heretikes, whiche had so railed on him: as out of Deuteronomium the 17 chapiter, and out of the first booke of Kinges, out of the 8. of Mathewe, and the 10. of Luke, the 23. of the Actes, of the obediēce and reuerence due to the high priestes, and to the Apostles. And all this he writeth speciallie, to confirme his owne autthoritie, beyng so vnwoorthi­lie railed on behinde his backe: as is moste euidente by the continuaūce of the processe. After whiche foloweth the place by M. Dorman alledged, of the priest of God who is not obeied, and of one prieste, and one iudge in the churche in Christes steede, not regarded. Whiche woordes he speaketh of hymself so abused by those he­retikes, so railyng on hym behinde his backe, as by all that goeth before, from the firste entrie of speakyng of hymself and his owne wronges, and still continuyng the treatie of hymself, and his owne matters, and also by these woordes folowyng, it doeth moste plainly ap­pere. Caeterum dico, dico enim prouocatus &c. But I saie, saieth sainct Cyprian, for I saie, beyng prouoked (to witte, by suche railers vpon him as he began firste to speake of) I saie, beyng sorowfull, I saie, beyng cō ­pelled: when a bishop is placed in the roume of his pre­decessour beyng deade, when he is chosen peaceably, by the voice of all the people: beyng in persecution defen­ded by Gods helpe, ioigned faithfullie to all his felowe [Page 39] bishops, tried and allowed of his people in his bishop­rike foure yeres: sufferyng so many persecutions, euen at this verie time, in the whiche I doo write to you these letters, cried for to be throwen to the Lions: when such a brother is assaulted of certaine desperate and wicked persones, it appeareth that thei whiche doo so assaulte him, be the enemies of Christe. Thus farre saincte Cy­prian: whereby it appeareth, that he hath continued, and doeth still continue to write of hymself, by the ve­rie woordes, prouocatus dico, I saie being prouoked &c. and by the circumstances of his complaintes to Corne­lius, for suche vnworthie despisyng of him and railing vpon hym, by suche his disobedient inferiours, and by the circumstance of the matter & time, where he saieth, that he, who was of his people allowed foure yeres in his Bishoprike, is the broother so assaulted: beyng the Priest of God, is so despised: beyng the iudge in Chri­stes steede for the tyme, is not regarded, as he saied be­fore. Whereby it is moste manifest, that sainct Cypriā meaneth himself, and not Cornelius, who was bishop of Rome but thrée yeres, or as Platina and others saie, Nicephorus lib. 6. cap. 33. Platina in vita Cornelii. but twoo yeres. So that these woordes of one priest & one Iudge in the Churche, for the tyme in steede of Christe (whiche M. Dorman hath alledged for the su­premacie of one heade of the vniuersall Churche) can not possiblie be taken as spoken of Cornelius Bishop of Rome, but are directlie spoken of S. Cyprian hym­self Bishop of Carthage in Afrike (as I doubt not but all learned, and discreate men readyng the epistie will iudge.) Wherefore it falleth out, by M. Dormans dili­gence, that Carthage, whiche is in Afrike, and in the possession of the Infideles, should bee the see of the su­preme heade of the Churche, and not Rome. Now the truthe in deede is, that as this place is here alledged by [Page] sainct Cyprian, with a number of scriptures there like wise rehearsed for the mainteinaunce of his owne au­thoritie in his Bishoprike: so doo thei likewise apper­teine to the authoritie of euery other bishop in his own diocesse, who is there th'one priest, and the one iudge in the churche in Christes stéede for the tyme. And neither these, nether any other suche places were euer alleged by S. Cyprian, for the supremacie of any one Bishop, ouer al the churche. Let S. Cyprians woordes next be­fore the very place, by M. Dorman alleged, proue this that I haue saied. Cum haec tanta, & talia, & multa alia exempla praecedant &c. That is to saie, where as these suche, and so greate examples, with many other, do [...]e goe before, by the whiche the sacerdotal authoritie and power is by Goddes goodnesse established: what ma­ner Di [...]nadigna­tione. of men thinke you bee thei, whiche beyng the ene­mies of Priestes, and rebelles againste the catholike Churche, are feared neither by the threatnynges of the Lorde, forewarnyng: nor with the vengeaunce of the indgement to come. For hereof rise heresies and schis­mes, that the prieste of God is not obeied &c. as mai­ster Dorman hath alleged out of this place of S. Cy­prian. You maie see that where S. Cypriā saieth now, The priest of God, as speaking of one: immediatly be­fore, he said, The priestes, as of many: as it is all one to saie, Obeie thy superiour: and, Obeie thy superiours. Whiche also declareth that the woordes nexte folow­yng, of one Prieste, and one Iudge, in the Churche in Christes steede, doo apperteine to all Bishops: that is, to euery one in his owne diocesse, and not, one to be o­uer all the churche. Concernyng the Apologie, maister Dorman his owne example of ciuile gouernemente, [...] little before alledged, plainlie declareth that he dooeth vniustlie finde fault with it. For as the Apologie with [Page 40] vs denieth not, but that euery king in his own realme, euery meaner magistrate in his office is, in Goddes steede or place, a Iudge for the tyme: so doeth it not de­nie but that euery Bishop in his diocesse is, in Christes steede or place, iudge for the time. But as the Apologi [...] denieth that euery one Kyng is, or can bee in Goddes place, iudge ouer all the worlde to rule it: but euery kyng is in Gods steede Iudge in his owne kyngdome or kingdomes, as God doeth appoinct, for he geueth to Eccle. 17. b. 14 diuers kynges many kyngdomes, but to none, all: so doeth it deny, that any one bishop is, or can be, in God­des place, iudge in the vniuersall churche, or in al chur­ches throughout the worlde. Wherefore the Apologie is herein vniustlie blamed of you M. Dorman: neither dooeth S. Cyprian (who died an holie martyr, and is no doubt a sainct in heauen) holde with you against the Apologie, but with it against you most plainly, in this and all other places, whiche you haue vntruelie alle­ged, and all reasons, that you haue vnreasonablie ga­thered, and violently wrested against it, out of S. Cy­prian. And I trust that of this, & suche like vndiscreate allegations, it will appeare to the wise reader, how lit­tle cause M. Dorman had to triumphe, as though S. Cyprian were of his side altogether: and withall, so in­solentlie to raile vpon vs, saiyng: that it were better with S. Cyprian, to liue and die in the obediēce of this Priest, and vnder suche a iudge (meanyng the Pope, of whose supremacie sainct Cyprian neuer dreamed) then with a sorte of leude losels, in whose Churche (beyng a certaine secrete scattered congregation, vnknowen to all the worlde beside, and to their owne felowes too) is neither head, order, obedience, neither yet certaine ru­les or groundes wheron to staie, to runne headlong ye [...]ote no more then your guides whither. And withall [Page] to note in the margent of his booke, this to be the defi­nition of the protestantes churche. To the which out­ragious railynges, in this and all other places, I saie as S. Cyprian in this verie epistle saieth to suche like railers againste hym. Multa turpia, & probrosa, & ore Lib. 1. epist. 3. non procul ab initio. tuo digna, te proferre. That thou vttereste many vile, and shamefull woordes, mete for thine owne mouthe. And as S. Augustine, euen in the place by M. Dormā in the first face of his booke alledged, doeth saie to Pe­tilian, beeyng a weake reasoner, but a mightie railer, suche as M. Dorman is. Tu es maledicus conuiciator, August. con­tra Perilianū lib. 2. cap. 32. non veridicus disputator. Thou art an euill tongued railer, not a true and pithie reasoner. The firste parte whereof, M. Dorman hymself doeth in this place, and in all the reste of his booke prooue aboundauntlie: the weakenesse of his reasonyng, partly I haue alreadie, and shall hereafter more, and (as I truste) sufficientlie declare. Now to the matter: I saie, our congregation is not so scattered, nor so secreate and vnknowen to the worlde, as M. Dorman dooeth make it: the Pope and his haue bothe more knowledge and feelyng also, then likyng thereof. And wee take this obiection as no re­proche, beeyng common to our congregation with the primitiue churche of our sauiour Christ, & his holie A­postles, speciallie in the time of persecutiō. We are not headlesse, as you make vs: we haue Christ in heauen, & our Prince in earth vnder hym: wee haue orders bothe ciuile and ecclesiasticall, and liue (as men maie) there­after. We doo obeie our naturall Prince, and the ma­gistrates, and ecclesiasticall prelates vnder our Prince with better conscience, then you doo obeie your foraine head, the Pope of Rome. Wée haue the rules & groun­des of Goddes woorde, and therefore we knowe whi­ther to goe, and whervpon to staie: whatsoeuer you M. [Page 41] Dorman saie.

Nowell.

It is true that S. Hierome is of the same minde that S. Cyprian was of: but neither of them bothe were of that minde that D. Hardyng and M. Dorman bee of: that is to witte, that either there should be one head o­uer all the churche, or that the Bishop of Rome should be that head: but that euery bishop in his own diocesse is summus sacerdos, the high priest ouer his owne cle­argie: and that one bishop is not superiour to an other. Neither hath sainct Hierome in the whole dialogue a­gainst the Luciferians, asmuche as one woorde that is speciall to the Bishop of Rome onelie, but common to all bishops of all places: as the learned, that will reade the dialogue, shall easilie vnderstāde: and as Erasmus in the argumente of the saied Dialogue, hath well no­ted, saiyng: Liber est in primis lectu dignus, quippe qui multa salutaria praecepta complectatur de vita Episco­porum. The booke is verie woorthie to be reade (saieth Erasmus) as the whiche doeth conteine many holsome preceptes concernyng the life of Bishops. Thus farre Erasmus. For whereas the Luciferians thought that laie menne, which had fallen into heresie, beyng peni­tent, [Page] might be receiued into the churche again, but that bishops ought not to bee receiued againe vpō their pe­naūce, except thei were vnbishopped, S. Hierome pro­ueth that the bishops also vpō conuersion & penaunce, might be receiued, and remaine still bishops. And here about is the disputation in the first part of the said dia­logue, cōteining the one half of the same: in the whiche part also is this sentence by D. Hardyng and M. Dor­man alleged, for the authoritie of one Bishop ouer the whole Churche, whiche is by S. Hierome there moste plainly spoken for the authoritie of euery bishop in his owne diocesse. But it is expediēt that I doo note certain of the places out of the said dialogue, whiche euidently doo proue that which I saie of euery bishops authoritie, & doo reproue y^e wresting of this place by D. Hardyng & M. Dorman, to the authoritie of one bishop ouer al the churche. Orthodoxus dixit: Nescis & laicos & clericos Orthodoxus. vnū habere christū, nec alium neophytis, aliū Episcopis esse deū: cur ergo nō recipiat clericos, qui recipit laicos penitētes? That is to saie: He of y^e right faith said thus: Dooest thou not knowe y^t aswel thei of the laitie as thei of the cleargie haue both one Christ, & that suche as be but nouices in christian religiō haue not one God, and bishops an other? (but that bothe haue one God): why should not he therefore receiue thē of the cleargie, who doeth receiue suche of the laitie as bée penitent? And a­gain, not muche after. Luciferianus: oro te nōne legisti de episcopis dictū: vos estis sal te [...]rę? &c. which is to say The Luciferiā said: I pray thae hast y^u not read y^t which is spokē of bishops: you are the salt of the earth? but if y^e salt haue lost his saltnesse, what cā be salted therwith? and so foorth at large. Vnto whō Orthodoxus aunswe­reth thus, Sit, ita vt vis, Arrianorum Episcopus hostis Christi, sit sal infatuatū &c. That is to saie, Be it so as [Page 42] thou wouldst haue it, that an Arriā bishop is the enemie of Christ, bee it y^e he is infatuate or vnsauery salte &c. Hither­to out of S. Hierome against the Luciferiās. Wherby you maie sée y^t he speaketh of many bishops, or of one heretike bishop, as of al of y^e same sort. Now to come nerer the place, by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman alleged: wheras the Lu­ciferian thinketh the dignitie of a bishop to be so great, that it maie not be reteined by one that hath once been in here­sie, S. Hierome cōsesseth in déede that bishops be in autho­ritie aboue al priestes & deacons in their owne diocesse, but that yet thei maie neuerthelesse after penitēce reteine their bishoprikes. These be S. Hieromes woordes alitile before the place by M. Dorman alleged. Orthodoxus. Nō equidē abnuo hanc ecclesiarū esse cōsuetudinē, vt ad eos qui longè ī minoribus vrbibꝰ per presbyteros, & diaconos baptizati sunt, episcopus ad inuocationē sanctispūs, manū impositu­rus excurrat &c. That is: I doo not denie this to bée the cu­stome of churches, that y^e bishop doeth come to those that be Baptised in lesser tounes by Priestes & deacons, to laie his hand vpon them, with the inuocatiō of the holy ghost. And shortly after he saieth: Quòd si hoc loco quaeris, quare in ec­clesia baptizatus, nisi ꝑ manus episcopi nō accipiat spiritū sanctū, quē oēs asserimus ī vero baptismate tribui? disce hāc obseruationē, ex ea autoritate descendere, ꝙ post ascensum dn̄i spūs sanctꝰ ad apostolos descēdit. Et multis ī locis idem factitatū reperimus, ad honorē potius sacerdotij, (quam) legis ne­cessitatē. Alioqui si ad episcopi tātùm imprecationē spūs sanctꝰ defluit: lugēdi sunt qui in viculis aut in castellis, aut ī remotioribus locis per praesbyteros & diaconos baptizati, antè dormierunt, quàm ab Episcopis inuiserentur. Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet: cui si non exors quaedam, & ab omnibus eminens detur potestas, tot in ecclesiis effictentur schis­mata quot sacerdotes. That is to saie: If you aske in this place, wherefore he that is Baptised in the Churche, doeth not receiue the holie ghost, but by the handes of the bishop, [Page] the whiche holie ghost we all doo affirme to bee geuen in true Baptisme? Learne, this obseruation to come of that authoritie, that after the ascension of our Lorde, the holie ghost came doune vnto the Apostles. And we finde that the same is dooen in many places, rather for the honour of Priesthoode, then of the necessitie of the lawe. Els if the holie Ghoste come doune onelie at the praier of the bishop, thei are to be lamented, who being baptised by Priestes and deacons, in little tounes and villages, or places further of, doo dye before thei be vi­sited by the bishops. The healthe of the church depen­deth vpon the estimation of the chief Priest: who, if he haue not authoritie pearelesse, and aboue all other, ye This is mai­ster Dormans translation. shall haue in the churche so many schismes, as there be Priestes. Thus farre S. Hierome: whose woordes I haue repeated at large, and in the last place without a­ny intermission haue ioigned the verie woordes, by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman alledged, to S. Hieromes woordes nexte before. Whereby it is moste euidente that S. Hierome speaketh of euery bishop in his owne diocesse, and of the priestes and deacons that bée vnder hym in his said diocesse. And that the authoritie which S. Hierome saieth the Bishop hath, is the authoritie of laiyng his handes vpon children, or other lately bapti­sed by inferiour ministers, and curates in villages of the said diocesse (whiche authoritie is apperteinyng to all bishops in their owne diocesse) & that bishops haue that authoritie geuē them aboue other priestes or dea­cons, beyng curates of smaller tounes and villages in their diocesse, not by the necessitie of Gods lawe, but for the honour of their bishoprike. For if euery priest of the diocesse should in all poinctes bée of equall authori­tie with the bishop, there would arise so many Schis­mes by the arrogancie of the priestes, as there bée prie­stes. [Page 43] And for this cause hath euery bishop an authori­tie pearelesse (as M. Dorman dooth translate it) and a­boue all other priestes in his diocesse. For it is euident by the places before alledged, that comparison is made betwene priestes, deacons and cuvates in smal tounes and villages, who haue authoritie to baptise, beeyng many, and betwene the Bishop of the diocesse, who is one, and the high prieste in the saied diocesse, and hath authoritie pearelesse ouer all other priestes and deacōs in the same diocesse: And that there is no comparison here made betwene the bishoppe of Rome, as the high prieste, or bishop ouer all other priestes and bishops, as D. Hardyng and M. Dormā without all shame would wrest it: whereas there is not one woorde from the be­ginnyng of that longe dialogue of S. Hieromes vnto this place by them alleged, nor to the ende of the same, either written, or meante of the bishop of Rome, but of euery Bishop in his owne diocesse. And therefore this whole matter is altogether impertinente to D. Har­dyng, and M. Dormans purpose, of one onely heade o­uer the whole Churche, vnlesse M. Dorman would frame vs therof this leude argument: Sainct Hierome saith that euery bishop ought to haue authoritie aboue all other priestes of his owne diocesse, ergo the Bishop of Rome ought to haue a preeminēce pearelesse aboue all bishops of all diocesses, and ouer the whole churche throughout the whole worlde. Whiche maie well bee M. Dormās reason: but fure I am, that no reasonable man, beyng awake, will so reason. To conclude, you see it is not without great cause, that Fol. 80. b. VVhere he vn­truely saieth, that S. Hierō here meaneth the Pope Pe­ters successos. D. Hardyng in his booke calleth this place of S. Hierome a notable place, and saieth that it maie not be lette passe: whiche his maisters woordes, M. Dorman well noting▪ would not suffer it to passe, vntill he had by the handelyng [Page] thereof, declared his notable foolishenesse. Wherein as I doo little merueil of M. Dorman, whom, the leude [...] the writyng is, the better it dooeth become hym: so can I not but muche muse how it should come to passe, that doctor Hardyng, or any of any honestie and learnyng, should so abuse hymself, and the readers, with the al­legation of suche impertinente places: and with what conscience, and shamefastnesse thei can doo it. Vnlesse thei thinke that this excuse maie serue in matters of re­ligion also: Dolus an virtus, quis in hoste requirat? which is to saie, What matter maketh it whether you vse fine force (plaine truthe) or guile, with an enemie? And therefore thei deale with vs rather as enemies, then as doeth become themselues beyng Christians, or as apperteineth to the treatie of religion, woorthie of al truthe & sinceritie.

No well.

S. Hier [...]me in his epistle to Euagrius, she weth that praesbyter and episcopus, a Priest and a bishop, bee all one, by the firste institution, and by the Lawe of God: whiche he proueth by many testimonies of the sc [...]ip [...]u­res, and withall he declareth that the Apostles them­selues were called praesbyteri, that is to saie, elders or priestes. So that all bishops, whiche be the successours of the Apostles, bee also praesbyteri, that is to saie, prie­stes: whereof it foloweth also, that there is an equaliti [...] [Page 44] emongest all bishops by Gods lawe, as the equall suc­cessours Omnes Apo­stolorum suc­cessores sun [...]. of the Apostles. And that this is S. Hieromes minde in that place, all learned menne, who haue redde the saied epistle, doo well knowe. Nowe to that plac [...] whiche M. Dorman allegeth out of this epistle: Quòd autem postea vnus electus est, qui caeteris praeponere­tur, in schismatis remedium factum est: ne vnusquisque ad se trahens ecclesiam rumperet. That is to saie: That one was afterwarde chosen to rule the reste, that was doen for a remedie againste schismes: least while euery man would chalenge to hymself the churche, by suche halyng and pullyng thei might breake the same. Thus farre hath M. Dorman alleged: but S. Hierome pro­ceedeth further to declare the same matter, by these woordes. Nam & Alexandriae à Marco Euangelista, vs­que ad Heraclam & Dionysium episcopos, praesbyteri semper vnum ex se electum, in excelsiori gradu collo­catum, episcopum nominabant: quomodo si exercitus imperatorem faciat, aut Diaconi eligant de se, quem industrium nouerint, & archidiaconum vocent. Quid enim facit, excepta ordinatione, episcopus, quod praes­byter non faciat? That is to saie: For at Alexandria from Marke the Euangeliste, vnto Heracla and Dio­nysius beyng bishops there, the priestes did euer place one chosen of their companie in the higher roume, and named him, bishop: as if an armie should make a capi­taine: or deacons should choose one of their owne com­panie, whom thei knowe to be actiue and diligent, and call hym Archedeacon. For what doth the bishop (one­ly orderyng excepted) that a priest maie not doo? These are saincte Hieromes woordes. Whereby it appeareth plainlie, that the woordes of sainct Hierome, One cho­sen afterward emongest them to rule the rest, for a re­medie of schismes, doo appertaine to euery Bishop, as [Page] head ruler of the Cleargie of his owne Diocesse. For, saieth S. Hierome, suche an heade ruler was chosen at Alexandria in Aegipte, where S. Marke the Euange­list, Heracla and Dionysius were bishops, to gouerne the priestes and cleargie there. And withall whatsoe­uer was doen afterward, was not doen de iure diuino: vpō the grounde of Gods lawe, as you would haue the Popes supremacie to stande, but of an ecclesiastical or­der and pollicie. For that whiche was doen by Goddes lawe, was not dooen afterwarde, but first: this whiche was thus doen afterward, saieth sainct Hierome, was doen rather for the honour of the priesthood, then for the Hierome con­tia Luciferia­nos: ad hono­rem potius sa­cerdotii, quā ad legis neces­sitatem. necessitie of the law. For by the lawe of God, which is first, the priest (as S. Hierome saieth) maie doo asmuche, exceptyng orderyng onelie, as maie the bishop: but af­terwarde for order, one was placed in the highest place for the auoidyng of schismes. And if a prieste by saincte Hieromes minde, maie doo asmuche as a Bishoppe, I thinke one bishop also may by Gods lawe, doo asmuche as an other bishop. Further seyng this one afterwarde chosen to rule the reste, was chosen aswell at Alexan­dria, as at Rome, or elswhere: and the Bishop of Ale­xandria was that rular of the reste of his Cleargie, as well as was the bishop of Rome of his owne cleargie: it must nedes fall out, that these woordes, one chosen afterwarde to rule the reste, either make for no supre­macie of any one bishop ouer all the churche, as apper­teinyng to euery Bishop in his owne diocesse: or if M. Dorman will needes inforce a supremacie by the saied woordes, he shalbe inforced to confesse the saied supre­macie to be commō to the bishop of Alexandria (where S. Hierome saith this one was chosen to rule the rest) with the bishop of Rome: as by the other place laste be­fore alleged by M. Dorman out of S. Cyprian, the said [Page 45] supremacie should appertaine to the Bishoppe of Car­thage. But bothe Carthage, and Alexandria are nowe in the handes of Infideles, and therefore can there bee no supremacie of the church there: and yet aswel there, as at Rome, where Christ is as muche blasphemed, as he is either at Alexandria, or Carthage. But it is in deede moste plaine by that epistle of S. Hierome, that he doeth not meane that one bishoppe should be aboue an other, muche lesse, one heade ouer all other. For he expresly saieth, that all bishops be equall, and none su­periour, nor inferiour to an other by Gods lawe. Nei­ther doeth it hurte our cause, in case that wée graunt to M. Dorman, that this place doeth appertaine to the A­postles: and that one was chosen emongst the Apostles themselues to haue the chiefe place: that is, to speake firste, to moderate other, to staie contention, and to re­medie schismes. Naie it maketh with vs directlie, who doo graunt that as emongest those .xij. one was so cho­sen to bee ruler: so it is good, that in euery competente number of priests and cleargie, one be chosen likewise to be ruler. And if M. Dorman vpō this graunt, would inferre suche a supremacie of one ouer the rest of the A­postles, as the Pope claimeth ouer the churche: Saincte Paule reprouyng Peter more sharplie to his face, then Gala. 2. c. 11. &c is lawfull now for any bishop to deale with the Pope, dooeth proue that Peter had no suche supremacie. For though the Pope by his abominable dooynges dooe Distīct. 40. ca. Si papa. Extra. Ioannis. 22. Tit. 4. cap. 2. in scholiis. damne hymselfe and innumerable other, yet maie no man be so bolde as to blame him therefore, but let him goe vncontrouled to the deuill of hel. Neither foloweth it, though one man bee chosen so to bee ruler emongest xij. therefore maie one also bee chosen to bee ruler ouer all the Cleargie of the worlde, of all nations and lan­guages, and to farre of also, to be well ruled. No more [Page] dooeth it folowe, for that S. Hierome dooeth saie, that one was chosen of the companie of the Priestes of eue­ry one Churche or diocesse, to rule the reste (as namelie was dooen at Alexandria) the whiche ruler was called the bishoppe: therefore ought there to bee one chosen to rule all bishops of all diocesses (namelie at Rome) & the said one ruler to be called Pope, or head of the vntuer­sall Churche. For this kinde of collection, vsuall to M. Dorman, I haue by his owne former reasons and si­militudes of seuerall gouernours or Princes, necessa­rie to bee ouer euery citie, countrey, or kyngdome, and that none can be ouer the whole worlde, proued to be a vaine and leude collectiō. And I haue also by his owne witnesses, S. Cyprian, and S. Hierome, and by the ve­rie places of them, by him guilefullie wrested, at large declared the same. And I shall yet hereafter more pla­inlie declare that S. Cyprian, and S. Hierome, whom he hath alleged for the supremacie of one, that is to wit the Bishoppe of Rome, are of all other writers moste cleare against him: and that in the verie same places by hym for his purpose alleged: so that it maie bee iustlie meruelled, whether M. Dorman were so ignoraunte, that he should bring those for his witnesses, who doote­stifie moste against hym: or so impudente, that he cared not whom he brought, or what he saied, so he mighte seeme to saie and bryng somethyng, were it neuer so farre from, or so muche against his purpose.

Nowell.

The Councell of Calcedon professed that thei bele­ued as did Leo concerning the moste blessed Trinitie, & condemned Eutyches heresie: but what is that to the purpose? We professe that we doo therein beleue as did Leo: and we doo like wise condemne the heresie of Eu­tyches. For that the saied Councell calleth hym San­ctissimum, & beatissimum, the moste holie and blessed: what maketh that for his supremacie? All the Priestes and deacons of Rome doo call S. Cyprian bishoppe of Carthage, Beatissimum & gloriosissimum papam, the [Page] moste blessed and moste glorious Pope, as I haue be­fore noted: and yet I thinke that M. Dorman will not therefore graunt sainct Cyprian the supremacie. But what the Councell of Calcedon graunted to Leo Bi­shop of Rome, or is feigned to haue graunted to hym, or what thei graunted equallie with hym to Anatho­lius bishop of Constantinople, and what Leo did like, or mislike, allowe, or reiect of the said Councell: I shall haue more conueniente place to declare afterwardes, where M. Dorman dooeth more speciallie entreate of the saied councell. Now concernyng this epistle by M. Dorman alleged, this is first moste euident, that the e­pistles caried about in the names of the firste auncient Popes, are either forged, or at the leaste corrupted by their ambitious successours of later tyme, to make a shewe of the antiquitie of their chalenge of the supre­macie: and this to bée true is easie to perceiue by many circumstances, as shall hereafter at large bee declared. But be it, that these be Leos owne woordes, and were this Leo accompted neuer so holie, yet I trust he beyng bishop of Rome, maie netther bee his owne witnesse, nor iudge in his owne cause of the Popes supremacie. The holiest and the beste men that bee, are lightly par­tiall in their owne matters. Wherefore Christ our sa­uiour, moste woorthie of all credite, saieth: Si testimo­nium perhibeam de meipso, testimonium meum non Ioan. 5. c. 31. est verum. If I beare witnesse of my self, my testimo­nie is not true: whiche he saieth, for that were his testi­monie neuer so true, as it was euer moste true, yet be­yng of hymself, it would not be taken of men as true, as it appeareth by the woordes of the Phariseis to our sauiour: Tu de te [...]pso testimonium perhibes &c. Thou Ioan. 8. b. 13. (say the Phariseis) beareth witnesse of thy self, thy wit­nesse is not true. If Christes woordes maie not here [Page 47] take place, let the Pope then cause this note to be blot­ted out of his own canon lawe also: Papa iudex esse nō Causa. 16. Quaest. 6. cap. Consuetudo, in scholiis. debet in causa propria: The Pope maie not bee iudge in his owne cause. For it standeth there in vaine, as it seemeth. To the whiche yet it appeareth that Pighius in the fifte booke of his Hierarchie had a respece: for he Lib. 5. cap. 14. fol. 258. b. allegyng a Clementine, that is to saie a Popes decree, for his purpose, hath these woordes. Quum Clementi­nam audis, nolo imagineris, audire te vnius hominis Romani pontificis in sua ipsius causa sententiam, sed cogita te sententiam audire Viennensis concilij, in quo ex vniuersa ecclesia conuenerūt plusquā. 300 episcopi. That is to saie, When thou hearest the name of a Cle­mentine, I would not haue thee to imagine that thou hearest the iudgemente of one man, to witte, the bishop of Rome in his own cause: but consider that thou doest heare the Sentence of the Councell of Vienne, in the whiche moe then. 300. Bishops were assembled out of the vniuersall Churche. Thus farre Pighius. Wher­by it maie seeme that he dooeth not thinke the Popes onely testimonie in his owne cause to be sufficient. D. D Hardyng fol. 76. b. Hardyng, who dooeth folowe Pighius verie muche, saieth that he will not allege the testimonies of many Popes for the proofe of the supremacie, for that wee doo make, though without all cause (saieth he) exception a­gainst the popes, as vnlawfull witnesses in their own cause. And therefore he is somewhat more shamefaste then M. Dorman, and hath onely noted this epistle of Pope Leo: whiche M. Dorman thus largely rehear­seth, and with marginall notes so beautifieth, as some speciall place to prooue the Popes supremacie. As he laith on loade cōtinually, not of popishe witnesses, but Popes thēselues, witnesses in their owne false claime: M. Dorman fol. 63. though he can not dissemble hymself in an other place, [Page] but that wee maie make exception vnto them, as not indifferent witnesses in their owne quarelles. Well, if these causes of exception to Popes in their own cause, whiche I haue alleged, shall not seeme to D. Harding, and M. Dorman sufficiente, I trust yet that all reaso­nable indifferent men shall iudge them sufficient. And for more reasonable cause of exceptiō to this Leo here, and all other Popes too, in this matter wee saie: that Zozimus or Sosimus bishop of Rome about a. 24. ye­res before this Leo, moued with an ambitious desire of this supremacie, which the bishops of Rome his succes­sours now striue for, as it were, pro aris & focis, for life and death, as one might saie, did corrupte and falsifie the decrees of the Nicene Councell, pretendyng that it was decreed in that Councell, that the bishop of Rome should be the chief iudge, aboue all other bishops, & that it should be lawful for any mā vnder any other bishop, to appeale to the Bishoppe of Rome, as to the highest iudge ouer all ecclesiasticall persones: and the said Zo­zimus, as the maner of falsaries is, did counterfeite a decrée to that purpose, and put it in writyng, and labo­red to put it in executiō by mainteinyng one Apiarius, a priest of the diocesse called Siccēsis in Afrike, against his bishop called Vrbanus: whiche Apiarius beyng by his saied bishop, for his moste wicked life excommuni­cate, appealed to the saied Zozimus Bishop of Rome. If ye aske me how I prooue that I haue saied, to witte the saied Zozimus Bishop of Rome to be a corrupter, and falsarie, I answere, I prooue it not by twoo onely, but by twoo hundreth and .xvij. good witnesses, the whole Councell of Afrike, in the whiche so many Bi­shops were assembled, and emongest them was saincte Augustine, the beste learned of all bishops, and equall in vertue and godlinesse with the beste not onely of his [Page 48] tyme, but of all ages, with Orosius, Prosper, and ma­ny other bishops notable in learnyng and vertue. Thei al, as in their epistle to Celestine one of the successours of this Zozimus appeareth, testifie that there was no suche matter for the Bishop of Romes superioritie, as was by Pope Zozimus alleged, neither in their vsuall copies of the Nicene Councell, neither in the authen­ticall examples, whiche were sent them by Cyrill, Pa­triarke of Alexandria, and by Atticus, Patriarke of Constantinople: whiche authenticalles agreyng with their owne copies, and all other copies euery where, had no suche thyng as Zozimus alleged, but had the cleane contrary: for that the sixt and seuēth decrée of the saied Nicene Councel make the Patriarkes of Alexā ­dria, Antiochia, and Hierusalem, equal with the bishop of Rome. And the saied. 217. Bishops made a decree in Conci. Africā. circa tempus Bonifacii. 1. cap. 105. that Africane Councell, that no sailyng ouer the Sea with controuersies, nor appellations to the Bishop of Rome, nor sendyng of his Legates laterall into their countries, as iudges, should bee vsed: accordyng as by the epistle of the said whole councell sent to Pope Ce­lestine Ad Papā Cae­lestinum vrbis Romae episco­pum. plainly appeareth. In the inscription of whiche epistle, thei doo acknowledge the saied Celestine none other, but Bishop of the citie of Rome: for this terme Papa, Pope, was in those daies cōmon to any notable Bishop, of what place so euer he were. For the whiche it pleased D. Hardyng to call the Africanes, emongest D. Hardyng fol. 89. b. whom S. Augustine, Orosius, and Prosper, with ma­ny other learned & godlie Bishops were, schismatikes, as those that submitted not their neckes to the Pope: and folowyng Hosius his author, he saieth, that Afrike Hosius contra Brentium lib. 4. fol. 187. continued in this schisme. 100. yeres: to wit, from Bo­niface the firste, to Boniface the seconde. And M. Dor­mans Dorman. fo. 3. b. & fol. 11. b. iudgemente is, that all suche are out of the state [Page] of saluation, and in damnable case, folowyng the iud­gement of Pope Boniface, who doeth saie, declare, de­fine & pronounce (for the man as in a matter of weight Extr. cōm. lib. 1. De Maior. & obedientia. cap. vnam Sanctam. laieth on loade of woordes) that of necessitie of salua­tion, all men must bée subiecte to the Bishop of Rome. But I had rather bée a schismatike frō that false vsur­par, with S. Augustine, Orosius, Prosper, and those 217. godlie and learned fathers, and with the Patriar­kes of Alexandria and Cōstantinople, Cyrill and At­ticus, ioignyng with them in the truthe of the Nicene Councell (and so beyng, I thanke God, doo little feare any damnation, other then to their fagottes and fire) then to bee with the corrupter and falsarie Zozimus, bishop of Rome, a counterfeite catholike, and in deede a false schismatike frō Christ, and the truthe. Though Hosius goeth about in vain to defende the cause of this corrupter, moste impudently goyng about to prooue, that neither in Gréece, nor Afrike, nor els where, there was any true copie of the Nicene Coūcell remaining, but onely with the Bishop of Rome: whiche how cre­dible it is, I leaue to the discreate readers iudgement. But of this matter M. Dorman geueth me occasion to speake more largely hereafter. After this Zozimus, his successour Bonifacius the first, Celestine the first, with all others almoste, folowyng Zozimus steppes and ambition, haue with toothe and naile striuen for this supremacie: and for that purpose did sticke still to the falsified Nicene Canon, and haue likewise falsified other Councelles, in sundrie places: and haue forged a great many of the epistles now abroade in the names of the olde Popes, Clemente, Anacletus, Euaristus, Telesphorus, and other their predecessours, whome thei make to write almoste of nothyng els, but of the prerogatiue of Peters chaire, the see of Rome: where­as [Page 49] those godlie olde fathers, euer subiecte to persecutiō and death, neuer thought of any suche matters, neither had luste or leasure to occupie their heades and pennes about such ambitious matters: as by the true stories of thē doeth moste plainly appeare, and shall hereafter at large bee declared. And whereas this Leo refused the title of Oecumenicall or vniuersall Patriarke geuen hym by the said Councell of Chalcedon, and appertei­nyng to hym of right, as Pighius saieth, though mai­ster Pighius, lib. 5. ca. 10. fo. 239. b M. Dorman fol. 65. a. Dorman doo denie it, there muste needes bée some errour. And it is greate marueile that Leo would so ambitiously chalenge in his epistle the same title in ef­fect, whiche he refused so freely offered vnto hym by the whole Councell. And it maie seeme that if the Popes iudgemente bee aboue the Councell, as Pighius doth teache, the Councell did erre, in geuyng hym suche a title: and if the Councell in this poincte did well, as Pighius saieth, but M. Dorman denieth, either the Pope should haue receiued the said title offered, or not haue claimed the like of those, who would not gladlie graunte it vnto him. Wherefore I trust no reasonable man will disalowe our exceptions to suche witnesses in their owne cause. Yet besides these causes of moste iuste exceptions to this Pope, and all other Popes in their owne cause of their falsely vsurped supremacie, I will goe otherwise to woorke with M. Dorman. I saie that Leo here, (bee it these bee his woordes, whiche yet is in controuersie) saith vntruely. If M. Dorman aske howe I prooue it? I would firste aske hym whether he hath truely translated this place? And if he haue, howe he can make these woordes in this epistle, there is one digniti [...] common to all Bishoppes, to agree with these folowyng: there is difference of power emongst them, and it is geuen to one to bee aboue all the reste, whose [Page] iudgement is of moste authorite, and how this manne is not in dignitie differyng from the reste? And if mai­ster Dorman thinke he can well enoughe frame this Iarre: I saie further, I will proue the saiynges of Leo vntrue, by twoo witnesses, againste this one: by indif­ferente witnesses, against this partiall witnesse in his owne cause: by witnesses without and aboue all excep­tion, againste this witnesse, vnto whom so many and so iuste exceptions maie bee taken. I will proue (I saie) his own witnesse of hymself false, and M. Dorman too, by M. Dormans owne witnesses, sainct Cyprian, and sainct Hierome brought in by hymself for the proofe of his parte: and that whiche is more, I will prooue it by the verie same places of sainct Cyprian and sainct Hie­rome, whiche are by Doctour Hardyng, and maister Dorman here alleged: that is to saie, by the thirde epi­stle of the firste booke of the epistles of sainct Cyprian, and by the epistle of sainct Hierome to Euagrius. And I doubte not, but as of his three witnesses brought for hym, one is no witnesse (but suche as if one would saie aske my self whether I bee a theefe, or no) so the other twoo witnesses, who bee moste woorthie credite, shall proue my cause true, I truste, and maister Dorman a verie liar. Wherein I doo thus proceade. First, I will Lib▪ 1. epist. 3. pagin. 10. putte the reader in remembraunce yet once againe, of Saincte Cyprians owne woordes before touched, written in the same epistle by maister Dorman alle­ged, whiche are these: Cum statutum sit omnibus no­bis, &c. whiche maie bee thus translated: whereas an order is taken or statute made emongeste vs all, and it is also reasonable and right, that euery mannes cause be there hearde, where the faulte was committed: and whereas a portion of the flocke is assigned to euery bi­shoppe by himself, whiche euery one ought to rule and [Page 50] gouerne, and must geue an accompte of his doynges to the Lorde: these whiche bee vnder our gouernaunce ought not therefore to runne about (to witte, from one Bishoppe to an other) neither to breake the agreable concorde of Bishoppes by their guilefull temeritie or rashnesse, but ought there to make answere in their causes, where thei maie haue accusers, & witnesses of their crimes, excepte it seeme to a fewe desperate, and caste awaie persones, that the authoritie of the bishop­pes that bee in Afrike is lesse, then the authoritie of o­thers, whiche Bishoppes haue alreadie geuen iudge­ment of them: their cause is alreadie heard, sentence is alreadie pronounced against them: neither dooeth it a­gree to the graue iudgemente of Bishoppes, to be bla­med of the leuitie of a mouable and inconstant mynde: whereas our Lorde dooeth saie, Let your speache bee, yea, yea: no, no. Thus farre saincte Cyprian, M. Dor­mans owne witnesse, euen in the same epistle by hym­self alleged. And this sentence of saincte Cyprian tou­chyng the determinyng of controuersies in the places where thei dooe rise, and that no appellations shalbee made to any bishop of an other Prouince, yea and that namely not to the Bishop of Rome, nor that he shall sende any Legates Laterall to heare or determine fo­raine matters, dooeth the whole Carthaginense coun­cell approue and allowe: wherein was saincte Augu­stine, Drosius, and Prosper, with. 217. moe learned and godlie Bishoppes assembled, as I haue before no­ted. The same sainct Cyprian euer agreyng with hym self in this veritie of the equalitie of al bishops, (which is the ouerthrowe of the supremacie of one) dooeth ap­plie many suche places of the scriptures, as are custo­marelie, but moste falsely alleged now a daies by this authour, and other aduersaries for the proufe of the po­pes [Page] supremacie ouer all Bishoppes, to the declaration of the equall authoritie of euery Bishoppe in his own diocesse, as the place of Deuteronomium concernyng Deuter. 17. the obedience due to the high Prieste: out of Numerie, of the disobedience of Chore, Dathan, and Abyron a­gainst Numeri. 16. Aaron: out of the Actes of the Apostles touching Saincte Paules woordes: I wiste not that he was the Act. 23. high Bishoppe, for it is written, thou shalt not speake euill to the prince of thy people. All these places, I saie, doeth saincte Cyprian allege for the authoritie of Ro­gatian Cyprianus lib. 3. epist. 9. an Africane Bishop, and againste the disobedi­ence of the saied Rogatians oeacon against his bishop. And the same places dooeth sainct Cyprian likewise a­gaine Cyprianus lib. 4. epist. 9. in an other place allege for his owne authoritie, beeyng Bishop of Carthage, and against the stubbor­nesse of Pupianus towardes hymself. So that saincte Cyprian doeth in all places maintaine the equalitie of bishops, and withal ouerthrowe the supremacie of one ouer all, directlie againste this place by you, as out of Pope Leo, alleged. But in no place is sainct Cyprian more effectuous and piaine concernyng this matter, then in his booke intituled De simplicitate praelatorū: where he hath these woordes: Dn̄sapostolis oībus post resurrectionem suam, parem potestatē tribuit. & mox: Hoc erant vtique & caeteri apostoli, quod fuit Petrus, pari consortio praediti, & honoris & potestatis. That is to saie. The Lorde after his resurrectiō did geue like orequall power to al his Apostles. The other Apostles were the veric same, that Peter was, beeyng indued with like felowship, both of honour and power. Thus farre saincte Cyprian: who beyng in so many places so directlie againste this vsurped supremacie of one, and for the equalitie of all Bishoppes, it is to be wondered with what face M. Dorman hath been so bold and bu­sie [Page 51] with S. Cyprian in this his treatie of the popes su­premacie. Now let vs heare S. Hierome, M. Dorman his second witnesse: and euen in the same epistle by M. Dorman alleged also. Where Saincte Hierome spea­kyng of the authoritie of Churches and Bishops, and makyng thē all equall, and none aboue an other, hath these woordes. Nec altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia, alte­ra totius orbis estimanda est &c. Wée maie not thinke that the Churche of the citie of Rome is one, and the Churche of the whole worlde an other. Bothe Fraūce and Britaine (now called Englāde) Afrike and Persie lande, the East countreis, and Indie, and al barbarous nations woorship one Christe, and obserue one rule of truth. If you seke for authoritie, the worlde is greater Maior est or­bis authoritas quam vrbis. then the citie (of Rome): wheresoeuer any bishoppe is, whether he be at Rome, or Eugubium: at Constanti­nople, or at Rhegium: at Alexādria, or Tanis: he is of the same merite, of the same priesthoode. The power of riches, or basenesse of pouertie maketh not a bishope ei­ther higher or lower. But thei be al the successors of the Apostles. But thou wilte saie, how dooe thei at Rome a [...] the testimonie of the deacon ordein the priest: What dooest thou allege to me the custome of one citie: what dooest thou chalenge for the lawes of the Churche the vsage of a fewe, whereof presumptiō hath risen: Thus farre sainct Hierome. Vpon the which place Erasmus in his Scholies noteth that Eugubium, Rhegium, and Tanis were base and little tounes, and that sainct Hie­rome matcheth in paires and couples a poore & simple Frigidum o­pidulum. little toune, with a noble citie: to she we therby that the dignitie of the Bishop is not estéemed by the greatnesse of his diocesse or citie, but that all bishops bee equall in office. Now let vs compare these twoo, sainct Cyprian I saie, and saincte Hierome bearyng witnesse with the [Page] truthe, with Leo onely bearyng witnesse to hymself. Leo saieth, In the holie Apostles themselues there was a differēce of power, and that it was geuen to one to be aboue all the reste. On the contrary parte S. Cyprian saith, The Lorde gaue like and equall authoritie to all his Apostles: all the Apostles bee indued with like fe­lowship, bothe of honour, and power. Thus saieth S. Cyprian in his booke intitled De simplicitate praelato­rum, Of the simplicitis of priestes: noting them as dou­ble faced prelates, that teache, or attempt the cōtrary. Againe Leo saieth: Out of this forme is taken our dif­ference of Bishoppes, that in euery Prouince one bee chief and of moste authoritie, and the bishop of grea­ter cities to haue greater care, and consequētly that he who sitteth in Peters chaire, should haue charge, & be heade of the vniuersall Churche. Thus saieth Leo: and thus he saieth, because he hymself would be Lorde and head ouer all the churche. S. Cyprian saieth: Euery bi­shop hath his seuerall portiō of Christes flocke to rule and gouerne, for the which he must geue an accōpt vn­to the Lorde. And that those, who are vnder the charge of the bishop of one countrey, maie not appeale to a bi­shop of an other: nor the cause determined by one Bi­shop, maie be called in question before an other: for that the authoritie of one Bishop is not inferiour to an o­ther: nor the authoritie of the bishop of Afrike is lesse, then the authoritie of the bishops of Italie, or Rome it self (for his woordes haue euidentlie that relation) and that none thinke the authoritie of one bishop to be lesse then the authoritie of an other bishop, but a fewe wic­ked and desperate men. Thus you see how your owne witnesses are at square, and there is, yea, and naie be­twéene this your Leo, and S. Cypriā in these matters. S Hierome, agreing with S. Cyprian, saith: All chur­ches [Page 52] worshippyng one Christ, and obseruyng one rule of truthe, are equall with the churche of Rome: all bi­shoppes bee the successours of the Apostles, and of one priesthoode, and of the same merite and dignitie. Thus saieth S. Hierome. But Leo saith contrary: that it was geuen to one to be aboue all the rest, & that thei, who be appoincted in greater diocesses or cities, haue more care and authoritie: and that th' onely see of Peter hath charge of the vniuersall Churche, & is heade therof. Thus saith Leo. S. Hierome saith: The lesse diocesse or toune, or the poorer estate maketh not the bishop lower, or lesse in authoritie: the greater prouince, the greater citie, the greater riches make not a Bishop greater in authoritie. And though Leo doo make neuer so muche of Rome, and set it aboue the vniuersall Churche: S. Hierome saith, Th'authoritie of the vniuersall churche is greater, then the authoritie of the churche of Rome, as the worlde is greater, then the citie of Rome. And he saith further: What dooest thou allege me the vse of the one citie of Rome for a lawe of the churche, wherof ri­seth presumption of a fewe against all men? I thinke y^e fire and water are not of more contrary nature, then are S. Cyprian and S. Hierome contrarie to that epi­stle alleged by M. Dorman, as Leo the Popes epistle: nor that any witnesses brought againste a man by his aduersarie, euer haue more directlie testified againste him, then these twoo witnesses, S. Cyprian and sainct Hierome brought in by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman for them, dooe testifie againste them, euen in the verie places by themselues alleged: besides their consonan­cie with themselues in al other places, and the consent of S. Augustine and twoo hundreth and moe Bishops agrecyng with them, againste this Leo. What should one iudge of these mē, bringyng in together three wit­nesses, [Page] of the whiche twoo are moste directlie againste them, and againste the thirde also, who alone seemeth to make with them: & that thirde, as in his owne cause, to bee suspected: and further to bee doubted also, whe­ther it bee he in deede, or an other vnder his name: and suche as he is, the woordes of his testimonie either ma­nifestlie falsified, or els at the least in diuers copies be­yng not onely diuers, but cleane contrarie? as hauyng in one copie, it is so, in an other (if M. Dorman slepte not) it is not so. And yet bothe these, impossible bothe to bee true, bee one mannes testimonie, of one and the same matter, and in one and the same place also. Were these menne so blinde that thei did not see this, or so shamelesse that seyng, and knowyng, thei durst yet al­lege suche witnesses for them? So blind bussardes thei tooke all menne in the worlde, sauyng themselues, to bee. Surelie me thinketh it to bee an harde case, and a silie shamelesse shifte, for menne to bee driuen to allege those authours, and to bring those witnesses for them, whose testimonies dooe thus conuicte them, and quite ouerthrowe their cause, and withall shame them vt­terlie. And verie miserable is the Pope and Poperie, being driuen now at the laste to the patrocinie of suche proctours, who openyng and bewraiyng the weake­nesse of the groundes and foundations thereof, so long tyme heretofore, by ignoraunce of the worlde, iudged sure, will themselues bryng all Poperie, beyng alrea­die of it self ruinous, to speedie and vtter destruction. For the whiche also all godlie, and suche as loue the truthe haue greate cause to geue God greate and har­tie thankes, for that (these causes as desperate, beyng forsaken of almoste all learned & graue men) M. Dor­man, with suche other as he is, haue thus taken them in hande, and that suche leude matters haue founde at the Similes habēt labra lactucas. [Page 53] proctours and patrons moste méete for them.

Nowell.

Hetherto haue you heard, good readers, how of the experience of ciuile policie and worldlie gouernment, wherein euery seuerall countrey, citie, and companie, haue their seuerall Princes, rulers, and heades, mai­ster Dorman would moste l [...]udely gather, that al chur­ches dispersed in all countries, cities, tounes, villages, nations, peoples, and lāguages (impossible to be kno­wē, and more impossible to be gouerned, but of Christ onely, the onely head of that vniuersalitie) should haue one onely heade here in earth. You haue hearde also, how ignorantlie (if he did not vnderstand) how shame­lesly (if he did vnderstande) he hath alleged S. Cyprian, and S. Hierome for him, beyng, bothe in all other pla­ces vniuersallie, and in the verie speciall places also by hym alleged, moste euidentlie againste hym, and that moste falsly vsurped supremacie of the pope. You haue [Page] heard how contrary his witnesses be, twoo against one: and that one either not so writyng, as is alleged by M. Dorman, but falsified, or forged as so writyng, by the Popes commen corrupters and falsaries of al writers, and writynges: or if so writyng, yet vnworthie credite euen by his owne lawe, as partiall in his owne cause: and otherwise to be suspected, for that his testimonie is in diuers copies found not onely diuers, but cleane cō ­trarie: vnlesse M. Dormā thought he might put in and out, this woorde (non, not) as a little sillable, and no­thyng materiall, at his pleasure. And further, the saied witnesse (who so euer he be) beyng but one, is confuted as you haue hearde, by the veredicte of twoo witnesses moste worthie of creadite, brought in with hym, for te­stimonie of the same matter. You se therfore not onely no necessitie, but an impossibilitie of such an one onely head, aswell of the churche dispersed throughout all the worlde, as of one onely king, or prince of all the worlde it self. You sée there was no suche opinion, muche lesse knowledge of any suche head, emōgest the Apostles, or in the primitiue churche, but that it is a newe deuilishe deuise of the late ambitious Bishoppes of Rome: who when thei were neuer able yet hitherto well to rule the churche of Rome one citie (as by all histories and expe­rience is euidente) would yet of the worlde vsurpe the superioritie, & supremacie. And if S. Paule didthinke he was not méete to haue charge of one Churche, who 1. Timot. 3. Si quis autem domui suae praeesse nescit, quomodo ec­clesiam Dei curabit? could not well gouerne his owne house: of what mon­strous ambitiō and presumption is he trowe you, who, neuer yet able to gouerne one peculiar churche, dooeth claime, and would take vpon him the regiment of all churches throughout the whole worlde? Wheras he is not able, were he thereto required, to tell the onely na­mes of a small parte of the saied churches, neither kno­weth [Page 54] in what part of the world, a great many of thē be.

Nowell.

M. Dorman is in haste, and lacketh leisure for the examination of these matters: there is some plaie be­like towardes, and his par [...]e therein the busieste of all other: and therefore you must examine these witnesses your selues, and that with more diligence, then you would dooe in controuersies about landes, or worldie matters. Now surely M. Dorman, a little examinatiō will serue to trie out, that you, and all your felowe col­lectours and ouersears of this booke, were either of hast shamefully ouerséene, or so ignoraunte, that you could not sée, though you had had good leisure: or moste im­pudēt and shamelesse (so that you cared nothyng, what or how you did write, so it were some thyng) or els all three together. And had you doen well, you should all haue bestowed your leisure and cunnyng together, in some one piththie booke (if any thyng can be piththilie written of suche leude and trifelyng matters, as you take in hande to maintaine) rather then by launcyng out suche hauocke of bookes (like to this yours, and moste méete for you) in poste pase, as though all speede were in the haste, onelie to gette for the tyme the com­mendation of celeritie and readinesse, either of your fa­nourers, [Page] altogether blinded with partialitie, or of such vndiscreate readers, as delite moste, in moste trifles: and withall to obteine a perpetuall note and blotte of greate ignoraunce, mixed with more shamelessenesse and impudencie, in the opinions of all wise and lear­ned men. For it will fall out (M. Dorman) that you a­lone shall bee more able to write, and sende vs ouer a doosen suche bookes at this is, by the leisure and facul­tie that you haue, sufficiente enough thereto, then D. Hardyng and you, with all your adherentes, shall bee able to maintaine one little pa [...]cell of this your, or his booke, as truelie and sincerely written. So mucke har­der it is, either to write a little well, and truelie, or to defende a little, of muche written lightlie and falselie: then to write neuer so many, and so greate bookes, bothe lightly, leudely, and falsely too: suche as, I trust, it shall appeare to the worlde, this booke (named woor­thily yours) is in deede, M. Dorman.

Nowell.

Yet for all the haste M. Dorman hath, he will by the [Page 55] waie warne you to credite the aunciente fathers by hym alleged. The same dooe wee also desire of the dis­create readers, that thei will creadit those auncient fa­thers, who, though alleged by M. Dorman, beyng di­rectlie against hym, doo declare that he is woorthy of no creadite at all. And he doeth vniustlie charge England specially with so many schismes: where it is well kno­wen, that there is as muche consente in true doctrine in the churche of Englande at this tyme, as euer was in any realme at any time. And though there were not a perfecte consent of all men in all poinctes, what mar­ueile yet were it, if that should happen emongeste vs, whiche was not altogether lackyng emongeste the A­postles themselues? Let the contētion betwéene Paule and Peter, and betwéene Paule againe & Barnabas, be a proofe thereof. What woonder if that were emon­gest vs touching some poinctes, that was not wanting in the primitiue churche emōgest the olde fathers? Histor. Eccl. Rufini, lib. 1. cap. 2. Let the variaunce emongeste the bishops assembled at Ni­cene councell: Euseb. de vita Constant. li. 3. Socr. li. 1. ca. 8. Sozom. lib. 1. cap. 16. let the contention betwene the bishops of the Easte and of the Weste churche aboute the kee­pyng of Easter daie, a matter not woorthie of suche variaunce, bée a witnesse thereof. Socrat. lib. 6. cap. 9. & 10. &c Let the sharpe con­tētion betwéene S. Chrysostome, and Theophilus bi­shop of Alexādria, and Epiphanius bishop of Cyprus, In epistolis Hierō. ad Au­gustinum. the bitter strief betwéene S. Hierome and S. Augu­gustine, Hiero. tom. 2. in Apolegia & al [...]s li. con­tra R [...]finum. and betwéene the saied S. Hierome againe and Rufine, Euseb. His [...]o. li. 10. ca. 5. &c. & vitae Con­stant lib. 4. and like contentions betweene the beste men of all ages, testifie the same. What nedeth muche repetitiō of antiquities? As though it were vnknowen what contentions haue euer been emongest the Papi­stes themselues, as betwene the Canonistes and schole doctours: betwene Scotus and Thomas: betwene Al­liacensis and Occam: and of late tyme betwene Cate­tanus [Page] and Pighius: and as though at this presente tyme all Papistes agreed emongest themselues in the principall poinctes of their religion: where thei (as shal in place conueniente be declared) dooe exceadingly not onely varie, but repugne one againste an other. And what bee these names, Thomistes, Scotistes, Nomi­nalles, and Realles, but names of schismes? What be these Benedictines, Cistertians, Carmelites, Chartu­sians, Dominicans, Franciscans, with others like an huge number, but names of Popishe schismes & sectes? Who all forsakyng the religion and name of Christe common to all true christians, haue chosen to be called religious, as by a speciall name of a seuerall religion, and to bee named after men their fathers on earth, for­sakyng Math. 23. a. 9. the heauenlie father, and continuyng and ac­complishyng the schisme firste begunne in S. Paules time, after the exāple of those, who said, I am of Paule, 1. Corin. 1. b. 13 I of Cephas, I of Apollo: saiyng, I am of Dominike, I of Benedicte, I of Francise, who also maie directly an­swere S. Paule askyng, was Paule or any other, sa­uyng onely Christe, crucified for you? Yea, maie the Franciscanes saie, S. Francise was crucified for vs of his familie, and beholde the woundes in his side, han­des and feete. If S. Paule aske againe, is Iesus Christ diuided? Yea, maie a false hypocrite one of the secte of the Iesuites say: for we haue th'one part of Iesus, ther­of called Iesuites, and haue left the other part Christe, to the seelie soules abroade, to holde them selues contē ­ted therewith, and with the name of christians thereof deriued. Why, is Iesus one then, and Christ an other? Be there twoo Christes then, or one diuided into twoo? One of these must needes be: els if Iesus Christ be not twoo, but one, (as he is moste certainly one) and beyng not diuided (as he moste certainelie is whole) then are [Page 56] you Iesuites, were your religion good, nothing els but Christians: then are all Christians Iesuites also: then do [...] you in vaine bragge of a seuerall name of religiō, if your and our religion bee one. But if your religion be hypocrisie, (as it is in déede) then haue you stirred vp an horrible schisme, diuiding and cutting the glorious name of Iesus Christ, in the whiche onely is saluatiō: yea tearyng Christe hymself in pieces, infinitely more wickedly and cruelly, then euer did the wicked souldi­ars that crucified Christ, who had a remorse to cut his coate asonder. And leaste all these sectes of hypocrites should not bee knowen sufficiently by onely diuersitie of names, thei haue by other infinite waies and mea­nes iraueiled to seuer their sectes asunder, studiyng for diuisiō as for the beste, and fliyng all shewe of vnitie as the worste of all thinges. Wherefore to their diuersitie of names, thei haue ioigned diuersitie of fashions, and diuersitie of colours in their apparell, diuersitie of gir­dles, hose, and shooes: diuersitie of shauyng, diuersitie of goyng, beckyng and bowyng, diuersitie of diete and meates, diuersitie of readyng, syngyng, and tunyng, diuersitie of Churche seruice, and diuersitie of rules of life. All tymes would faile me, if I should, or could re­hearse all their diuersities, whiche is the verie proper­tie of schismes and sectes. These be those schismatikes, and sectaries, with an infinite multitude whereof, of late Englande was repleanished, of the whiche now, thankes bee to God, the realme is well ridde: so that if you mete a thousande men and wemen one after an o­ther seuerally, and aske of them, of what religion bee you? Thei shall all and euery one answere you, I am a christian, we bée all christians: there shall not one an­swere to you (as was wonte vnder your head) I am of the religion of S. Francisce, a Franciscane: an other, I [Page] am a Dominicane: the thirde, I am a Carmelite. Et sic de singulis. One woman shal not answere you, I am a Brigittine: an other, I am a Clarane: the third, I am a Beguine, whiche are all names of abominable sectes and schismes, not onely diuidyng, but deniyng, but for­gettyng, but reiectyng the religion and name of Iesus Christ, and choosyng the names and religion of sinfull synners, and counterfaite hypocrites moste wicked, and so muche the more wicked, for that thei cloked their wickednes vnder names of holinesse & religion. These so diuers sectes of false religion being well abandoned now out of Englande, and the one true religion of our sauiour Iesus Christe onely here remainyng: I mar­ueill with what face you can charge vs with schismes and sectes, which is your own speciall sore? And where you warne the readers vpon experience of the multi­tude of schismes lately risen, sithen the forsakyng of that one Popishe head, to creadite the auncient fathers as witnessyng with you against vs: you might as iust­ly warne them to creadite the aunciente Phariseis, ra­ther then Christe and his Apostles: bothe for that the first heresie, as S. Augustine saieth, sprange emongest August. in Psal. 54. Prima heresis in discipulis Christi facta est &c. Ioan. 6. 1. Cori. 1. b. 13. the disciples of Christe, many of them departyng from hym vpon the occasion of his preachyng, seemyng to them to be heard: and also for that in the Apostles time some vsed suche schismaticall saiynges, as these: Wee holde of Paule: some other, wee holde of Cephas: the thirde sorte, we holde of Apollo: whereas there was no suche dissention emongest the high priestes and Phari­seis, but greate vnitie and concorde emongest them a­gainste Christes Apostles: and againe for that diuers Irenaeus cōtra haereses lib. 1. August. lib. de haeresibus. greater schismes of the Nicolaites, the Symoniās, the Cerinthians, the Menandrians, the Saturninians, the Carpocratians, the Basilidians, with an huge num­ber [Page 57] moe, did rise with, and shortly after the firste prea­chyng of the Gospell, as Darnell secreatlie sowen by the enemie, springeth vp with the good corne sowen by the husbandeman: and specially for that great schisme, whiche Christe and his Apostles made from the highe Priestes and their Churche, whiche S. Paule made a­gainst the Phariseis, whō, he (beyng brought vp from his childhood emongest them) did so schismatically for­sake, and cleaue vnto Christ their aduersarie. Where­vpon in steede of greate quietnesse in one doctrine, and traditions of their fathers, of great looue emongest all Priestes and Phariseis throughout all Iurie and the whole Iewishe churche before, did folowe greate diui­sions, & trubles did arise, not onely in Iurie, but short­ly after ouer al the worlde. Wherof our sauour Christ Math. 27. Luc. 23. Ioan. 7. Act. 5. 17. 24. &. 28. himself was accused, as appeareth in the historie of the Gospell: and S. Paule with other the Apostles, were likewise accused, as is to be seen in the Acttes of the A­postles: and in like maner the whole christian religion, was in the primitiue Churche of all enemies bothe de­rided, as diuided into many schismes and sectes (as Euseb. hist. Eccl. lib. 10. cap. 5. & vitae Constan. li. 4. Socrates hist. Eccl. lib. 1. cap. 6. & lib. 3. cap. 24. & multis locis. doeth by histories ecclesiasticall appeare) and also char­ged as the cause of all mischieues and troubles, that o­uerwhelmed the worlde, as by Origenes cō ­tra Celsum. August. de Ciuitate Dei. Ambrosius, & Prudentius contra Sym­machum. Origen, saincte Au­gustine, S. Ambrose, Aurelius Prudentius and other Christian writers, answeryng that false sclaunder, is moste euidente to bee seen. And as iustlie might you charge the Apostles and their doctrine with those schis­mes, sectes, and troubles, as you dooe charge vs with these that haue risen in our daies. Where it is well knowen to the worlde, that our learned men haue by their writynges more oppugned and repressed the said sectes, then all the Papistes haue dooen. In deede wee must needes confesse a truth: that whiles we al remai­ned [Page] vnder the quiet obedience of your Romishe heade, in one doctrine of his traditions, there was a coloured kinde of quietnesse, concorde, and loue emongest all the members of that one heade, the subiectes of that one gouernour and ruler, and specially emōgest the clear­gie of that one churche: who had in possessiō the riches and rule of the worlde, with not onely quietnesse, but thankes also of thē that were bothe oppressed and rob­bed. So blinded were thei with ignorance, the mother of suche deuotiō, brought in by the said Popishe clear­gie, by hidyng in vnknowen tongues, and withdraw­yng of the light of Gods woorde, whiche should haue shined, and guided our steppes better. But when that Christ the authour of that light, as he hymself, and by his Apostles bewraied the errours of the Iuishe tradi­tions by the saied light first springyng, & withall trou­bled their vnitie & concorde in the doctrine of suche tra­ditions, and their quietnesse in their Synagoge so set­tled before: so now the same our sauiour in the tyme by his wisedome appoincted (who of his goodnesse would not suffer vs seelie straiyng shéepe to wander in darke­nesse of suche errors, nor of his iustice could suffer your head the Pope with his adherentes to deceiue his peo­ple any longer) by the same light of his holy woorde a­gaine springyng & shinyng to vs sittyng in suche pal­pable darkenesse, and in the shadowe of death, hath dis­closed, that your head and you, for the mainteinaunce of his and your fathers false traditions, haue obscured, hidden, broken, and forbiddē the lawe of God our hea­uenlie father: and shinyng before vs, hath exhorted vs to folowe and walke in the saied light, and hath war­ned vs to forsake bothe your doctrine, and woorkes of darkenesse. By this occasiō is there risen a like schisme betweene you and vs, as was betweene S. Paule and [Page 58] the Phariseis, with whom he was broughte vp from his childhoode before. By this occasiō of the light, your greate gaine and riches mainteined by the darkenesse of ignoraunce, and deuotion of seelie soules deceiued, sufferyng themselues to bée robbed, is decaied: as was the gaine of Image makers, shrine makers, and other Act. 19. c. 2 [...]. artificers of superstition in Ephesus, by the preachyng of S. Paule. By this meanes is your quietnesse trou­bled, your reste interrupted, your good cheare marred, your pompe abated, your estimation decaied, and the yoke of your tyrannie shaken of our neckes. This ma­keth your Romishe head and you crie, as you doo, and barke againste vs, as heretikes, and schismatikes, as did the high priest, and other Iuishe priestes and Pha­riseis crie out againste Christe and his Apostles. This maketh your head and you to persecute vs moste cruel­lie, and to adiudge vs to death, as did your aunciente fathers persecute and iudge Christe, and his Apostles. If this bee to make schismes, wee confesse our selues schismatikes from you, who haue firste made your sel­ues schismatikes from Christe, and his Apostles. To whō as wée doubt not but wée haue ioigned our selues in the truth of his Gospell, so haue you in déede in per­secuting of vs for professyng Christes Gospell, and the doctrine of his Apostles, ioigned your selues with the old Synagoge of Satan, and the Iuishe Priestes and Phariseis: who for the same cause persecuted Christe and his Apostles to death moste cruellie. But if that you could with vs embrace the truthe of Christes Gos­pell, & walke with vs ioinctly in the light of his woorde, there should bee more true quietnesse, as well of con­sciences, as of bodies, more sincere loue, more godlie vnitie, peace & ioy, then euer there was wordlie quiet­nesse, loue, & ioye in the darkenesse of Poperie. Which [Page] because you refuse to doo, despisyng the peaceable wa­yes of the Lorde, you are guiltie of all these schismes and troubles, and not we. And so finallie for this part of purgation of our selues againste your sclaunders of schismes and troubles, as by vs raised, dooe we allege the effecte of the same Parable of the strong manne so Luc. II. c. 21. &c quiet in his house, vntill a stronger then he came, and disturbed him, whiche Christ our sauiour in like sclaū ­der rehearsed for defense of hymself. If the reader shall thinke that I haue been to tedious in answeryng this matter here but touched by M. Dorman, as it were by the waie, I truste he will beare with me therein, for that M. Dorman as he beganne and floorished the first face of his booke, with blotting vs by this sclaunder of In fronte libri ex Augu. con­tra Peulianū, de quo vide b. 3 statim post praefacionem. schismes, so hath he hetherto cōtinued in the same, and applied all his allegations out of S. Cyprian, Basill, Hierome, Nicephorus and others, chieflie to that pur­pose: and omitteth not in euery other leafe hereafter, importunately to repeate the same: folowyng therein Eckius, Pighius, Hosius, and generally all the aduer­saries that speake or write againste vs, who doo moste vehementlie and continuallie burthen vs with the cri­mes of schismes and fectes, and of the disturbaunce of the quiet state of the churche, and worlde: at their plea­sure termyng vs Heretikes, Schismatikes, Hugue­notes, Caluiniās, Lutherans, and Zuinglians. Nei­ther are thei contented herewith, but doo also play with pictures verie pleasantlie, as thei thinke, in the whiche thei painte out a multitude of suche heretikes or rebel­les, as our confederates or alies, whose opinions wee doo moste abhorre, and against whom we continuallie bothe preache and write. And all this doo thei, for that thei are not ignoraunte that suche, though moste false sclaunders, beyng yet so importunelie and continual­lie [Page 59] laied to our charge, are of muche effecte to offende the mindes of the weake and simple, & to stirre vp their hatred against vs. And therefore thei vse suche constant asseuerations for argumentes, as in their schooles thei are taught to doo, when thei are destitute of due prou­fes, whiche hath also caused me for the simplear sortes sake once at large to answere, and earnestlie to repell that false vsuall sclaunder of schismes & troubles laied vpon vs by those, who are themselues moste guiltie thereof. For I truste that no reasonable reader will thinke vs to bee suche, onelie for that it pleaseth them maliciouslie so to misname vs, and onelie to saie we be suche: seyng their tongues and pennes are their owne to vse as thei liste, and not in our power. For, as wee haue no religion but onelie Christes, so desire we to be called after the names of none but his, & as we bee, so to be named christians: and beyng Christians, we care not to bee called heretikes, of heretiques: or schismati­kes, of schismatiques: suche as in deede our aduersa­ries bèe. Thinke thei that if we list and had leasure, as thei haue, wee could not frame an arbor or tree, twise as greate as thei haue deuised? Would not the Popes with their triple crounes, crosse keyes, & crosse swoor­des, whereof sundrie were heretikes: the fatte fedde Monkes, and leane faced Friers, the nice Nunnes, the seelie sir Ihons soule priestes and other, with their di­uersities of schismaticall names chosen to themselues, Christ and his name beyng forsaken, with the diuersi­ties of apparell, of coules, colours, meates, Churche seruice, rules of life, and infinite moe diuersities, with the Popes Bulles (whereby suche sectes were either founded or confirmed) displaied bannerlike vpon the seuerall armes and braunches of the tree, where suche sectes shall seuerallie sitte: would not, thinke you, [Page] this geare furnishe the saied tree farre more fullie and truelie too, then is M. Stapletons Staphilus forged plante, in the whiche he hath placed suche as are to vs moste straungers, as nexte of our kinne and bloude: whereas I am sure, that the Pope can make no excep­tion to any one of this shamfull rable, that I speake of, why he should not bee placed in the arbour of Popishe schismatikes? Wherefore I conclude that your crime of schismes, moste falsly laied to our charge, may moste truely, iustly, and plentifully bee reuersed vpon your owne heades.

Nowell.

Concernyng this place of Deuteronomium alleged by M. Dorman, these circumstaunces are to bee noted: First, that the high priest must be in Deut. 17. b. 8. Ascende ad lo­cum, quem e­legerit Dn̄s. the place whiche God hath chosen, whiche thei can neuer proue to bee Rome, more then any other bishops see. Secondarilie this prieste must be of the b. 9. Veniesque ad sacerdotes. Leuitici gene­ris, & ad iudi­cem qui fuerit in illo tēpore. Leuiticall sorte, whiche the Pope dooeth deny hymself to be. Thirdlie the place is [Page 60] doubtful, whether the whole determinatiō doo perteine to one, or to c. 10. Et facies quod cūque dixerit qui prae­sunt loco, &c. many: for it is writen: thou shalt come to y^e priestes of the Leuiticall sort, and thou shalt doo what­soeuer thei saie, and thou shalte folowe their sentence. And againe: He that will not obeie the priest, let hym die by the decree of the c 12. Nolens o­bedire sacerdo tis imperio, exdecreto iudi­cis morietur. Iudge: so that the Iudge of the nation semeth in this case to haue to doo [...]oinctlie with the priestes. Fourthly it is requisite that the saied prie­stes or priest doo teache, or iudge according to the c. 10. Facies quod cunque dixerint & do­euerint, iux­ta legem eius. lawe of God, and not at his owne pleasure, as the old tran­slation hath in that place: againste the whiche though Pigh. Hiera. lib. 4. cap. 3. Fol. 149. b. Hosius lib 2. contra Bren­tium. fol. 59. [...]. Pighius, and Hosius dooe quarell, yet it is certaine if the high priest doo against the lawe of God, bothe dooth Act. 23. 2. 3. saincte Paule threaten vnto hym Gods vengeaunce: and Act. 4. d. 18. saincte Peter also and saincte Ihon the Apostles, called before the high prieste, and commaunded not to preache any more in the name of Iesus, for that this laste condition of commaundyng after Goddes lawe, was here lackyng, did saie: An iustum sit in conspectu dei vos potius audire quam deum, iudicate &c. That is to saie: Iudge you whether it bée right in the sight of God to heare you, rather then God: for wée can not but speake the thynges whiche wee haue seen and hearde. Thus answered the Apostles. And neither did y^e high [...] priest hymself, nor any of the Scribes or Phariseis pre­sent, for that disobedince, charge thē as guiltie of death. But M. Dorman, as it appereth, doeth thinke that nei­ther Aaron for that he was high Prieste, and therefore could not erre belike, did not amisse in commaundyng the people to deliuer their goldē earynges, and in ma­kyng Exod 32. the golden Calffe thereof, and in buildyng an al­tare for it, and wo [...]rshippyng it: and that if any of the people had disobeyed hym, commaundyng them to de­liuer their saied earynges to the makyng thereof, thei [Page] had offended for so disobeiyng the voice and commaū ­dement of the high priest: Neither that Vrias the high Prieste in committyng Idolatrie did offende, but was therein as high Priest to be folowed. And for the same respecte peraduenture M. Dorman will preferre Cai­phas, for that he was high Prieste, before Christe: and Ananias before saincte Paule: and with Hosius will Hosius lib. 2. contra Bren­ [...]ium. fol. 54. b holde that the veritie or truthe of iudgement was with Caiphas, and the other wicked iudges, against Christ: and that Ananias commaundyng Paule to be striken did well, and was not in his commaundemente to bee disobeied: and that the commaundemente of the highe Priest forbiddyng Peter and Ihon to preache Christe, was to be obeied: And generallie that all the accusati­ons, testimonies, Iudgementes, and doynges of the high Priestes againste Christe and his Apostles were true, and right. For thus muste M. Dorman iudge of these thynges: or els make his high Priest of necessitie subiecte to the obedience of Gods lawe, before he dooe make all men of necessitie subiecte to his commaunde­ment, as an inuiolable lawe. These thynges well con­sidered maie easely informe the reader, that the Popes tyrannie to saie and doe what he liste, can not be groū ­ded vpon this place of Deuteronomium: and that if the Pope or any creature dooe commaunde against Gods woorde, he maie and ought to be disobeied therein: And that therefore bothe Pighius and M. Dorman haue in vain alleged this place, for any suche supremacie as the Pope claimeth. And further whatsoeuer M. Dorman, either out of Deuteronomium, or any other place of scripture, dooeth vntruely applie to the proofe of the su­premacie of one head, to witte, the bishop of Rome: the same dooeth S. Cyprian, M. Dormans owne vsuall witnesse, euery where allege for the proofe of the supe­rioritie [Page 61] of euery bishop in his owne diocesse, and for the obedience due vnto hym there. He dooeth neuer applie it, as dooeth M. Dorman, to the supremacie of one bi­shop ouer all other, but rather against suche suprema­cie of one. And it agreeth verie well with the estate of the Iues, that as thei beyng one nation had one chiefe priest, so is it good likewise that euery christian nation haue their chief prieste or Bishop. It agreeth not, that because the Iues one nation had one high priest to go­uerne thē in doubtes, therefore all nations throughout the worlde should haue one high Priest ouer all other. For not onely the vnlikelihoode betweene these twoo, but the impossibilitie of the later is most euident. But now let vs heare S. Cyprian in his epistle to Rogatia­nus. Lib. 3. epist. 9. Habes [inquit Cyprianus] circa huiusmodi homi­nes praecepta diuina, cùm Dominus deus in Deutero­nomio dicat▪ Et homo quicunque &c. Thou hast (saith saincte Cyprian to Rogatianus his felowe bishoppe in Afrike) concernyng suche men (to witte disobediente, as was his Deacon) the commaundementes of God, whereas the Lorde God in Deuteronomie dooeth saie: Deuter. 17. And what man so euer shall bee so proude, that he will not heare the priest or iudge, who so euer he be in those daies, that man shall die, and all the people shall feare, and shall doo wickedlie no more. And we maie knowe that this voice of God proceaded with true and greate maiestie, to honour and to auenge his Priestes, by the horible destruction of Chore, Dathan, and Abyron, who rebelled against Aaron. Thus farre S. Cyprian. Where you maie sée that bothe this lawe of Deutero­nomium, the example of Aaron, the estate of the Iuishe Churche, and all other places of scripture falsely wre­sted by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman to the proofe of the supremacie of one, to witte, the bishoppe of Rome, [Page] are by S. Cyprian (who died an holie martyr, and is no doubt a sainct in heauen) applied to the maintenaunce of euery Bishops authoritie in his owne diocesse, and the obedience there due vnto hym. And note withall that S. Cyprian saieth, that this and like places of the scriptures, apperteine to the honour of Gods Prtestes: he saieth not, to the honour of one high prieste, head o­uer all other. Naie he confesseth in the beginnyng of this epistle, that Rogatianus did but of curtesie, & not of duetie referre this matter of his disobedient deacon by complainte to S. Cyprian (though he were the Me­tropolitane of Afrike, beyng bishoppe of Carthage the chiefe citie thereof) and graunteth that Rogatianus by the vigore of his bishoprike, & authoritie of his Chaire, had power to order the matter hymself: and for the vi­gore of this Rogatianus bishoprike, and authoritie of his chaire, and consequently of all other Bishoprikes, and bishops chaires, doeth S. Cyprian allege these and all other places of scripture, falslie detorted by the Pa­pistes to these of Rome, and sainct Peters chaire there, as thei call it. Sainct Cyprian allegeth the same place Lib. 4. epist. 9. of Deutero. cap. 17. and all suche like, for his owne au­thoritie, against Pupianus despisyng hym beyng Bi­shop of Carthage, whom saincte Cyprian chargeth to transgresse this law of God of obeiyng the high priest, for that he maketh hymself, Episcopum episcopi, & iu­dicem iudicis, ad tempus à Deo dati, a bishop ouer the Bishop, and a iudge ouer the iudge, appoincted of God for the tyme. Which is the verie propertie of that false vsurper of Rome, who maketh hymself head bishop o­uer al bishops, and head iudge ouer all iudges by God in euery their iurisdictions appoincted to bee obeied of all their owne flocke, and not to be vnder a foraigne v­surper. And as he dooeth by saincte Cyprian his iudge­mente [Page 62] transgresse this Gods lawe in makyng hymself iudge of the iudge by God appoincted, so doubte I not but the iudgemente of the saied lawe, He shall dye the death, will light vpon hym for his pride, arrogancie, and tyrannie ouer his brethren, and equalles by Gods lawe. And though suche horrible Luciferian pride an [...] other wickednesse vnspeakeable, as is in the Pope, seeme to bee reserued to Gods euerlastyng iudgemen­tes, for that no worldly penaltie can bee sufficiente for suche desertes, yet dooeth God in our daies, not longe before the commyng of his sonne to iudgemente, de­nounce the same moste manifestly, and as it were pe­remptorilie to hym, and his.

Nowell.

You maie note that M. Dorman hath a good me­morie, who can and dare without the booke rehearse to vs sentences out of doctours for his proofes, and pu­blishe the same to the worlde: and boldely in the steede of one God gouernyng all, (for of hym speaketh Nazi­anzene in that place) to dashe vs in the teethe with one Pope to gouerne all the churche. I would M. Dorman [Page] had enlarged his memorie somewhat to a fewe woor­des of Nazianzene goyng next before, and makyng all the matter moste plaine: whiche M. Dorman therefore of purpose to blinde the reader hath omitted, suche a shreude memorie hath the man. The woordes of Na­zianzene confutyng twoo false opinions that men had of God, are these: Prima opinio nullum Deum, nullum Dei imperium: alia Deos multos, & cuique suum impe­rium statuit &c. Sed vbi nullum est imperium, ibi nul­lus ordo &c. That is to saie: The firste false opinion of God is, that there is no God, no gouernaunce of God: the seconde, that there are many Goddes, and that eue­ry of them hath his gouernaūce by hymself. But where no rule is, there is no order: where many rule, there is sedition. These are Nazianzene his woordes againste those that thinke that either there is no God, or many goddes: whiche M. Dorman out of his memorie repor­teth as spoken against those, who would haue no pope, or many Popes. But you sée it is not good trustyng to M. Dormans memorie, who dooeth so readily without booke allege thynges neither against vs, nor with him­self, but altogether impertinent to the purpose. Now if M. Dorman list transferre the sentence from God, go­uernyng all the worlde, to men vnder hym rulyng in the worlde, and would thereof frame vs this argu­mente: Nazianzene saieth, there is one onely God who gouerneth all: Ergo there muste bee one onely Pope, or head bishop to gouerne all the Churche: I deny the ar­gumente: and affirme that it foloweth no more, then that there must be one onely Emperour to gouerne al the worlde. And to bragge somewhat of memorie too, as M. Dorman dooeth: I remember that M. Dorman Fol. 4. b. hymself hath alleged, that for auoidyng of confusion in the worlde, euery kyngdome, euery countrey, euery [Page 63] citie, euery companie of menne muste haue an head to rule them. Whereof I inferre, that for auoydyng of schismes, and explication of doubles, euery churche of euery countrey and diocesse ought to haue an head, and a iudge to resorte vnto. And as there is no confusion in the worlde, nor discorde, for that sundrie partes of the worlde haue sundrie ciuill gouernours, as is moste ne­cessarie that thei haue, and is in the scriptures declared to be so by God appoincted: so is there no disorder, that seuerall churches haue seuerall bishoppes to their hea­des, Eccl. 17. b. 14. but is moste necessarie for all good order so to bee. And so is that sentence of Nazianzene generally takē, nothyng against the gouernance of seuerall bishops in seuerall diocesses: no more then it is againste the ciuill regiment of seuerall gouernours, in seueral countreis. For as it is apperteinyng to God onely, & to our sauior Christ his sonne, by their almightie power & wisedome to gouerne all y^e world, & all the church: so is it enough, and to muche for any one man well to gouerne a little parcell therof. And so to returne to Nazianzene his sai­yng: VVhere is no rule, there is no order: Truthe it is: but where one Bishop as one head, is in euery dio­cesse, there is some rule: therefore there is some order. VVhere many rule, there is seditiō: It is true, if many magistrates haue equall rule in one cōmon wealth, or if many ecclesiasticall persones haue equall authoritie in one seuerall Churche, wee confesse it is like to their phantasie, who would haue many equall Goddes to rule the worlde. But one seuerall ruler in one seuerall dominion, one seuerall bishop in one seuerall diocesse, dooe resemble one God rulyng one whole worlde, and one Christ ruling one whole churche, so well as earth­ly creatures maie resemble the heauēlie creatour. But one earthlic man by gouernyng all the whole worlde, [Page] or the whole churche throughout the worlde to resem­ble God or Christe, is a presumption vnhearde of, but onelie in the Pope of Rome. Let therefore seuerall ru­lers and Bishoppes holde themselues contented with seuerall dominions and diocesses, accordyng to Gods Ecclesia. 17. ordinaunce. For it is false that suche seuerall rulers in seuerall places doo cause sedition, and it is prooued false by the ciuile gouernemente of diuers rulers in diuers coūtreis, for so it stādeth for the moste part throughout the worlde at this daie. Wherefore M. Dorman and D. Hardyng maie as well saie that the worlde is sedi­tiously gouerned by diuers princes, as the Churche by seuerall Bishoppes. But as Nazianzene euer dreamed of one Emperour ouer all the worlde to auoide seditiō, though he teacheth there is one God: no more did he, though he teache one Christe, yet euer dreame of one onely head bishoppe or Pope, ouer the whole Churche throughout the worlde to auoide schismes, as drea­myng M. Dorman phantasieth, and thinketh all men that bee awake, to dreame too, as he dooeth. He spea­keth further in his sleape, and sa [...]eth. Howe shall wee then saie, Our Lorde loueth Syon aboue all the taber­nacles of Iacob? What this dooeth meane, or to what purpose it is, I knowe not. And I beléeue M. Dorman, when he waketh (if euer he wake) can not tell hym­self. For Pighius out of whō he borowed it, is a sleape, Hierarch. lib. 2. cap. 3. and neuer will wake to tell his dreame.

Nowell.

M. Dorman is so mightie in reasonyng, and hath so many and so good groundes, that he is full of con­clusions as you sée. We graunt Christe hath prouided for his churche so dearely bought and beloued of hym, as well as he did for the Iues, & better too. For wheras thei had but one chief bishop for their whole nation, he hath by the ministerie of his Apostles, prouided euery greate citie, euery Diocesse of suche a one, that thei maie bee the better gouerned, and lesse pained to tra­ueill farre for the decision of their doubtes and contro­uersies. Wherefore in these poinctes wee make no ex­ception to your olde shadowe, nor require no new ma­ners. But as thei and we haue one God, one spirite, one Christe, one faithe, one doctrine, one inheritaunce, and so foorthe, that so in like maner there bee one like ecclesiasticall [...]eg [...]ment, that euery one diocesse, coun­trey or nation haue in like wise one bishop to bee their iudge and determiner of doubtes, as had the nation of the Iewes. But M. Dorman dealeth not truely with the Apologie. The Apologie declareth that the church of God was muche obscured, and broughte to a small number emongeste the Iewes: and it sh [...]weth tha [...] it [Page] hath in like wise also been obscured, and broughte to a small number emongest Christians. The aduersaries of the Gospell, who are the corrupters thereof, and would haue no corruption nor decaie of the Churche now noted or knowen, saie: although the Churche of God was obscured, and brought to a little number in the old lawe, and in the shadowe, and figure, when no­thing was perfite: yet can it not be so in the time of the Gospell, the tyme of grace and perfection, &c. The A­pologie replieth: That defence can not serue, for there was the same God, the same spirit, the same Christ &c. then, as is now: and therefore as the Churche decaied then, so maie it, and hath it decaied now. M. Dorman handleth the matter as though he could prooue by the Apologie, that because there was the same God, the same Christ, the same holy ghost &c. in y^e Iuishe church, as is now: therfore must there be one head bishop ouer all the christian churche dispersed throughout y^e world, as there was one head bishop ouer all y^t Iues. Whiche foloweth no more, then that we must haue circumcisi­on now, for that the Iues had it then. Vnlesse M. Dor­man thinke he may mingle In lente vnguentum, thin­ges moste impertinent together: and prooue quidlibet, ex quolibet: all thinges of euery thing, at his pleasure.

Nowell.

Here is at once a protestation, and also a confuta­tion of the Apologie. For other confutation or answere to it then this, and suche like, as you shall heare hereaf­ter, [Page 65] haue thei not hetherto made. Wherefore as iustlie might we chalēge all the whole companie of Papist [...]s, beeyng at so good leisure as thei are, that thei haue not hitherto answered the Apologie so lōg abroade in their handes, as we are blamed of many, for that your boo­kes lately set foorth are not foorthwith answered. It is a pleasure for M. Dorman to shoote at rouers, & to range as he liste in railyng here and there, and to call the A­pologie, a fardle of lies. But it is not so easy for maister Dorman, nor D. Hardyng to answere it piththilie, to the satisfiyng of the learned readers. Whiche neither thei bothe, nor their whole Romishe cleargie shal euer be able to answere to any purpose. But I maie iustlie replie to M. Dorman as the truth is, that this his booke is nothing els but a fardell of lies, & ragyng railinges packed together, as I truste I haue in deede notified to the discreate reader for that is passed ouer of it hether­to, & doubte not of like successe in the rest. And I thinke that all honest and learned men in déede, will so muche more like the saied Apologie, when thei shall vnder­stande that it so muche mistiketh M. Dorman, and o­ther of like honestie and learnyng as he is.

Nowell.

You take to muche pain M. Dorman, to prooue y^t you may lawfully with S. Paule allege out of th'old testa­ment, for the proofe of good causes, as he did. We blame you not for that you allege out of th'old testament, but for your guilefull, & vntrue application of places of the old testament & of the doctors, to suche purposes as thei apperteine nothyng vnto at all, naie are moste contra­ry to the same. I would you and all other aduersaries of the truth would, as you saie, with sainct Paule rea­son from the shadowes of the olde lawe, to the truthe therby figured: but you haue dooen otherwise. For you dooe not with sainct Paule, but with Pighius and Ho­sius Pighi. Hierar. lib. 2. cap. 3. vse this place, not bringing vs by shadowes to the [Page 66] truthe, as did S. Paule, but by your shadowes of Ce­remonies Folio. 65. c. Hosius lib. 2. contra Bren­tiū. fol. 58. b. you haue darkened the truthe, & brought vs quite awaie from it. You haue by this your reason, so was it in the shadowe, therfore it must be so in the bo­die, & in the truthe signified by that shadowe, not one­ly placed your Romishe head ouer the whóle Christian Churche, but also of Christians you haue made vs Ie­wes: and your selues of ministers of the Gospell, haue you made Iewishe & Aaronicall Leuites. You haue on Aarons robes, you vse his gestures, you haue brought in his incense, his censers, his altars, his candelles, his candlestickes, his belles and his banners, his gold and his siluer into the seruice and Temple of God. Of the whiche then beginning, S. Hierome in his time muche Hiero. ad De­metriadem, & ad Nepotianū. cōplained. And would to God you had doen no woorse, then thus made vs and your selues altogether Iuishe, by your shadowes imitatyng and counterfaityng the olde lawe: I would ye had not also, by bringyng in of Idols, by inuocations of dead menne, by your charmes and witchecraftes, contrary to all Gods lawe, both old and newe, made vs altogether moste wicked Ethnishe Idolaters, and withall made a marte, and set a sale all this your religion, thereby to robbe séelie Christians, both of their witte and money, yea and of their soules health too, whiche is moste of all: as it is euidente to all the worlde you haue dooen. But now to proceede with M. Dormans reason from the shadowe to the bodie, from the figure to the truthe, from the Iuishe churche, to ours: In the Iuishe churche all the people, Exo. 24. b. 7. Deu. 31. c. 12. 13. menne, wemen, and children had the Scripture in a language that thei did well vnderstande: the Leuites and priestes in the Iuishe churche Exod. Leui. Deu. per totū. had wiues and children: Exod. 20. & infinitis locis. in the Iuishe churche there were no Images: ergo it must be so now in our churche. For God like a cunnyng worke­man [Page] in that people, in their lawe and priesthoode, sha­dowed out vnto vs the whole forme, and proportion of his churche now: it was so in the shadowe, therefore it must be so in the bodie, and in the truthe. These bee your owne woordes M. Dorman. To proceede: Maie it be proued by reason onely, that thei, who are boun­den to obeie Goddes lawe, oughte to vnderstande and knowe Goddes lawe? Dooeth not the lawe saie so too? Deut. 31. c. 12. 13. Maie it bee proued by reason onely, that ministers of the Churche maie haue wiues? Maie not one reason with S. Paule, Vnusquisque propter vitandam fornieationem habeat vxorem suam. Et, qui se non continent, nubant: Nam melius 1. Cori. 7. a. [...]. b. 9. est nubere, quàmvri. That is to saie: Let euery man for the auoiding of fornication, haue his wife. And, suche as cānot conteine, let thē marie: for it is better to marie, then to burne. Dooeth not the lawe saie so too? Maie it bee proued by reason onely, that Images ought not to bee in the temples, and that men whiche haue life and rea­son, ought not to boow and scoupe to insensible blockes, or stones? Dooeth not the lawe forbidde it to? If you will denie my argumentes, and thinke these reasons Exod. 20. Non facies, non coles. vnreasonable, as I thinke you will, yet I trust you doo against your own woords, and forme of reasoning. And good M. Dorman as [...]oile me of this doubt, how this ar­gument of yours holdeth, As it was in the shadowe, so must it be in the body also: but al the Iues had one head priest, Ergo all christians must so haue also. Why this, I saie, should holde, and not the other, I would gladlie learne the reason of you, at your leisure: if there be any other reason then this, that you maie take of shadowes what you liste, and leaue and refuse what you list, and as pleaseth you, without al colour or shadow of reason or truthe, that ye maie be the children of your Romishe father the Pope, with whom (as by Daniel was before Danie. 11. f. 36. [Page 67] prophesied of hym, and as in his owne Canon lawe is Clementin. li. 3. tit. 13. cap. 1. & lib. 5. tit 10. cap. 4. glossa in verba (volu­mus & velle.) recorded) will standeth for reason: and so dooeth it with you all, in all thynges likewise. Now where M. Dor­man concludeth thus for his one heade, saiyng: Haue I proued onely by reason, and by examples of common wealthes that there must be one head ouer all Christes churche? Haue I affirmed this because sainct Cyprian, S. Hierome, blessed and holie Leo sainctes in heauen now, so saied? Saieth not the lawe so too? I answere, Noforsooth M. Dorman: you haue neither proued it by reason, nor by examples of cōmon wealthes: for bothe all reason and all examples bee againste you, and dooe proue and declare that euery particular kingdome, do­minion, citie, and companie haue their seuerall gouer­nours, and not all the worlde one earthlie gouernour. Sainct Cyprian, and S. Hierome say not so, but cleane contrarie to your saiyng: to witte, that euery diocesse, euery prouince ought to haue his peculiar bishop to go­uerne it. And as for blessed and holie Leo, though he bee by you adourned with a double epitheton (where S. Hierome, and S. Cyprian muste bee content with a single S.) though you put to the third title too, in woor­ship of the three circles in the Popes Imperiall mitre, yet haue I alleged sufficient cause why he cā not serue your tourne. And as for the lawe, it likewise saieth a­gainste you: and your owne witnesse S. Cyprian testi­fieth that it speaketh against you, for the equall autho­ritie of euery bishop in his owne diocesse, and therefore ouerthroweth your supremacie of one heade Bishoppe ouer all. And the leudenesse of your collection, that be­cause one nation had one head bishoppe, therefore must all nations haue one head bishop ouer them, is besides so manifest, that it needeth no confutation.

Nowell.

Although you question with the reader, as meruei­ling at the straungenesse of our head, yet are we bound to you that you finde no faulte with vs, that wee saie, Christe is our head, as in deede he is the onely head of the catholike or vniuersall churche of all places and a­ges: and none but he alone neither in heauē nor earth, what so euer you saie to the contrarie. That you dooe thinke it so straunge that wee call the Scriptures the iudge of all controuersies, we meruaile not, seyng you folowe your owne phantasie in matters of religion di­rectlie against the scriptures. But what soeuer you doo or saie, we saie and beleue that the woorde of God, and of our sauiour Christ ought to be iudge here betweene vs in our daies. For it shall iudge both you and vs too, in the laste greate daie, accordyng to the saiyng of our sauiour. Qui spernit me, & non accipit verba mea, ha­bet Ioan. 12. g. 48. qui iudicet eum. Sermo quem locutus sum, ille iu­dicabit eum in nouissimo die. That is to saie: He that despiseth me, and receiueth not my woordes, hath that shall iudge hym. The woorde whiche I haue spoken, [Page 68] that shall iudge hym in the last daie. M. Dormā, auoide the contempt, that you maie escape the iudgement.

Nowell.

Holde not the man for Goddes sake: he seemeth to [Page] phantasie that he is plaiyng his parte in the stage, and wil by priuilege of his office vnuisour and vncase some of his plaie felowes to make sport, and to mooue laugh­ter. But where he calleth Christ and the scriptures our cloutes: I would he wist, we reioyse of those cloutes as muche, as dooeth M. Dorman, either when he is in a glorious golden Cope, with a paire of glitteryng gilte Censers in his handes, perfumyng and withall woor­shippyng a golden God, no boliar, nor wiser then the golden calfe: or when he is in his robes on the scafolde, and plaiyng his part in a Christmas game: and I trust he shall sooner reueste himself againe in these his royall robes, then plucke vs from Christe our head, and from the scripture our iudge, whiche he calleth our cloutes. Good reader meruaile not that I answere this merie manne, thus rufflyng in his maskes, after this maner, but weighe, I praie thee, his writyng from this place forwardes, where he praieth that he be not holden, and marke what a shreude shakyng he maketh, speciallie for a whole leafe & more, next after folowyng. Where you say, M. Dormā, that we blind the people with glit­teryng shewes, you dooe obiecte to vs your owne cri­mes. It is you Papistes, who, by your glitteryng, glo­rious, maskyng garmentes, and other costlie and fine furniture, as copes, vestimentes, gilted crosses, candle­stickes, dead mennes, and often, dead beastes boones burnished ouer with burnyng gold, by your Ceremo­nies, your minstrelsie, your belles, banners, and other bables, haue bewitched, and striken not onely the sim­ple, but a greate many of the wiser sorte also, starke blind and deaffe too: that neither thei can sée any thing of Christ their sauiour, nor heare and vnderstand ought of his moste holie woorde. And you haue compelled thē in the steed of sincere and spirituall woorship of the true [Page 69] God, with you to put all religion in outward & dumbe Galat. 4. b. [...]. Infirma & e­gena clemēta. Daniel. 11. f. 36. ceremonies, the seelie weake and wretched elementes of this worlde: and not to regarde the God of their fa­thers, but in stéede of him to honour the God Maozim, and to woorshippe a God, whom their fathers did not knowe, with glitteryng golde, siluer, precious stone, and other precious thynges, in place of true vnfaigned faithe, and a pure harte. With what securitie we dooe vtter the truth forbidden vs by you, as it was to Chri­stes Apostles by the high Priestes and Phariseis your forefathers, all prisons in Englāde replenished of late with our captiue bodies, all markette places and other more viler sprinkeled with our bloud, shed by the crue­leste kinde of death that the Deuill the homicide your greate graundfather could diuise, dooeth plentifully te­stifie to the whole worlde. And the moste part of vs lo­syng our liues together with all worldelie hope, by death more dreadfull, then is vsuall either to Felons, murtherers, or to moste sauage & noisome wilde bea­stes, might geue you to vnderstande, if you would con­sider, that it is no newe fangled appetite, or luste of vt­teryng errours, or hope of worldlie gaine, that dooeth moue vs to preache against your heresies and supersti­tions: but euen the same méere necessitie of conscience, whiche in like case inforced the Apostles, likewise for­bidden Act. 14 d. 18. vpon paine of death, to preache: who made an­swere, that it was more reason to obeie God, then mā, Act. 4. d. 20. Nō possumus nō loqui quae vidimus & au­diuimus. and that thei could not choose but teache those thinges, whiche thei did knowe certainlie to be moste true. And the same answere dooe we make to you: for the whiche you will suffer vs to haue no securitie in this life.

Concernyng the scripture and the sense thereof, the reader maie in a like case cōsider. Whereas there was a controuersie betwene the Apostles and the high prie­stes, [Page] Scribes and Phariseis, aboute the interpretation of the Scriptures, touchyng the true Messias, by the whiche Scriptures the Apostles prooued that Christe our Sauiour, whom thei had crucified, was he: but the high Priestes and Phariseis by their interpretations attempted the contrarie, and would not haue suche a poore and abiect man, as to them and the worlde it sée­med that Christ was, to be their Messias. Now had the Apostles (as M. Dorman, me thinke, thinketh it rea­son) leauyng the Scriptures in this case moste plaine, referred the matter to the interpretation and determi­nation of the high priest & his consistorie: wée might at this daie with the Iewes haue looked yet for a Messias to come, and should with them haue lacked, to our vt­ter damnation, the sauiour of the worlde Iesus Christ the sonne of God, who is at this da [...]e to them, by reason of suche their interpretations, the stone of stumb [...]yng, Esai. 8. c. 14. Rom [...]. 8. g. 33. 1. Pet. 2. b. 6. 7. 8 1. Cori. 1. d. 30. and the rocke of ruine: but to vs, who doo beleue in him, he is become wisedome, and righteousnesse, and sancti­fication, and saluation. And as there was then a cōtro­nersie betweene the Apostles, and the high Priestes, whether thei had vniustlie or iustlie slaine that righte­ous one and innocent Lambe of God, and no reason it was that the murtherers themselues should be iudges, beyng not onelie accessaries, but the principall parties to the murther: so there being now risen a controuersie betwene vs and you, about the true religiō of the same our Saniour (whiche how shamefullie you haue with your traditiōs corrupted, euen as had your forefathers the Phariseis before corrupted the law of God, he that hath but halfe an eye maie well se [...]) you thinke it rea­son yet that you, who are the corrupters, and therefore parties, should bee iudges therein also, and speciallie your chief and moste high Prieste the Pope, the poodle [Page 70] and sinke of all these abominations, & therefore moste guiltie of all other, and consequently moste vnmeete to be the Iudge therein. And yet M. Dorman will néedes haue hym the Iudge, and the woorde of God so indiffe­rent to all men, and partiall to none, reiected. And why reiected, I pra [...]e you? Forsoothe for that we maie by the Scriptures defende (as you saie) what errour wée liste: as though that you maie not by the iudgemente of the Pope, and by your own iudgementes vnder the name of the churche, farre more easilie, as you haue brought in, so also mainteine and defende all errours and su­perstitions. Is not the Pope more partiall to hymself, and you his Papistes, then are the Scriptures to vs? Wherefore it were as good reason, that Annas and Caiphas should bee Iudges, whether thei themselues had dooen iustlie and righteouslie, or wickedlie and murderouslie, in sleayng Christe, as that your Pope, or you, the corrupters of true Religion, should be iud­ges, whether in so dooyng you haue dooen well or no. If it be no reason (as the prouerbe goeth) to aske whe­ther one bee a theefe or no, of his felowe: muche lesse reason is it to aske the same question of hymself, seyng it is certaine that he will not bewraie hymself. But the aduersaries of the Gospell deale thus with vs: the Pope and all his eleargie, beeyng guiltie of many he­resies, corruptions of religion, and false superstitions, and thereof accused, dooe assemble themselues toge­ther in a councell, in the whiche nothyng maie bée mo­ued, Pighi. Hierar. lib. 6. cap. 1. fol. 275. b. muche lesse determined, but suche as pleaseth the Pope hymself: there is enquirie made of vs (who dooe accuse them thereof, and offer to prooue it) and there vnhearde, and vnseene, wee are condemned of our ad­uersaries (who will needes bee our Iudges) as false accusers, schismatikes, and heretikes also, for that wee [Page] are againste them, who are (as thei saie) the Churche. You will saie, wee might bee heard if wee would, for thei call certain of all Christian realmes to their coun­celles. How we are called, and how we maie be heard, let Ihon Husse, called by the Emperour Sigismunde his saulfe conducte vnder his greate Imperiall seale to the Councell of Constance, with Hierome of Prague, (who bothe were, contrary to the faith geuen them by the greatest Christian prince in the world, condemned and burned to ashes) bee an eternall witnesse: Yea let Cō [...]i. Constantiensis sess. 19. their owne decree made in the saied Councell, whiche was: That no faithe nor promise is to bee kepte to any heretike, nor that any manne by any promise standeth bound to an heretike (for so thei call all those that dare speake against them) bee a perpetuall testimonie of the same. Thei saie, wee are heretikes: wee dooe deny it: if our naie maie not defende vs, why should their yea cō ­demne vs? Thei saie, because thei bee the churche: but wee deny the same: shall here their yea secue for thē, as it did before against vs: and our naie neither touch thē, nor helpe vs? In some countreis if the partie accused pleade not guiltie, and saie naie to the crime obiected, if he, by diuers tormentes enforced to confesse, doo still maintaine his naie, and passe through the appoincted tormentes, constanly mainteinyng his naie, he is dis­charged and let goe. But it cā not healp vs, accused as heretikes, to denie the false accusation, to mainteine our deniall in all tormentes, and moste cruell deathes, neither to bring good testimonie of our innocencie out of Gods woorde: all these can helpe vs nothyng against their onelie bare saiyng, that we bee heretikes, for that is all their proofe. In what case are we then? How easi­ly maie thei then bothe defende themselues, & cōdemne vs: and maintaine what thei list, be it right or wrong, [Page 71] truthe or falshoode: beyng accusers, witnesses, exami­ners, and iudges thēselues, in the causes wherein thei bée parties, and parties accused also? Wherefore what can we dooe els, but as did Christ our sauiour and his holie Apostles, against the high Priestes, against the Phariseis and Scribes, appeale to God, not absent, not dumbe, as M. Dorman deuiseth, and saiyng nothyng at all for vs, as he would haue it seme: but to God, yea and to our Sauiour Christe his soonne, speakyng his minde moste largelie and plainly in the scriptures, and beyng no partie, but moste indifferent iudge betwéene them and vs. For if the controuersie be about true Re­ligion, and scruice of God, what better triall can there be then Goddes woorde? God hymself commaundyng Deut. 5. d. 32▪ & 12. d. 32. vs, that in his seruice we shall dooe that whiche he cō ­maundeth vs, that wee shall neither adde thereto, nor take any thyng therefrom. What better Iudge can there be in this worlde betwene vs, then Gods woorde, whiche, as our sauiour Christ saieth, shall iudge vs in Ioan. 12. g. 48. the worlde to come? If the controuersie bee aboute the true churche, what better iudge can there bee then the Scripture, writen by the Prophetes and the Apostles, Ephes. a▪ d. 20. seyng it is testified to vs by the spirite of GOD moste plainelie, that the true churche is builded and staied v­pon the foundation of the Prophetes, & of the Apostles? And though this dooe not like M. Dorman, and suche as he is, yet you shall heare that it did not mis [...]ke the old, and holie fathers of the auncient and true churche, that suche controuersies should bee so quietted by the scriptures. Sainct Augustine cōtendyng against those, Augu de pe [...] ­catorum me­ritis li. 1. ca. 22 who doo attribute Gods grace and giftes to the woor­thinesse of mennes merites, cōcludeth thus. Cedamus & consentiamus autoritati scripturae sancte, quae nescit falli, nec fallere. That is to say: Let vs geue place and a­agrée [Page] to th'autoritie of the holy scripture, whiche cā not bee deceiued, nor deceiue others. The same S. Augu­stine contending with the Donatistes, hath these woor­des. Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam, cum eius quaslibet literas à canonica Diuinarum scripturarū au­toritate Idem ad Cres­conium. lib 2. cap. 31. &, 32. distinguimus: ne (que) sine causa tam salubri vigi­lantia Canon ecclesiasticus constitutus est, ad quē certi prophetarū, & Apostolorū libri pertinēt, quos omni­no iudicare nō audemus, & secundum quos de caeteris fideliū & infideliū, iudicamus. & mox ca. 32. Ego huius epistolę autoritate nō teneor, quia literas Cypriani nō vt canonicas habeo, sed eius ex canonicis considero: & quod ī eis diuinarū scripturatū autoritati cōgruit, cum laude eius accipio: quod autē nō congruit, cū pace eius respuo. Whiche is to saie: We doo Cyprian no wrong, when we make a difference betweene euery letter and writing of his, and the Canonicall autoritie of the holy scriptures: Neither without cause thecclesiasticall Ca­non with so holsome care hath béen appoincted, to the whiche the certain & assured bookes of the Prophetes & Apostles pertaine, the which in no wise we presume to iudge, and according to the which we iudge of all other bookes & writinges, both of the faithfull and of the infi­dels. And straight waies after in the 32. chapiter: I am not bound to the autoritie of this epistle, because I hold not Cyprians letters and writynges for Canonicall: but consider his writynges by the Canonicall: & what accordeth in them to the auctoritie of the diuine Scrip­tures, I allowe with his praise: and what disagreeth frō them, by his leaue I refuse. These are the woordes of S. Augustine. You maie sée here, how S. Augustine preferreth the scriptures before the doctours, yea before S. Cyprian so often by you M. Dorman alleged, who was in deede a blessed martyr, & is no doubt, a sainct in [Page 72] beauen: and who also is mosse against you, euen where he is alleged by you. You see, S. Augustine will haue sainct Cyprians writynges, and all other doctours, and mennes saiynges and writynges examined and Iud­ged by the scriptures (whiche you yet reiecte as no cō ­uenient iudges) and that the scriptures maie be iudged by no man. Yea S. Cyprian hymself agreyng hereto, sheweth the causes why heresies, schismes, corruption of the truthe, and breache of vnitie dooe come into the Churche, and why so many are deceiued by the deuill, transformyng hymself into an angell of light, by these woordes. Hoc eò fit fratres dilectissimi, dum ad verita­tis De simplicita­te p [...]aelato [...]ū ▪ originem non reditur, nec caput quaeritur, nec ma­gistri coelestis doctrina seruatur. Quae si quis consideret & examinet, tractatu longo at que argumentis opus nō est. That is to saie: This cōmeth to passe hereof, moste beloued brethren; for that wée dooe not retourne to the origene [...] beginnyng of the truthe, neither is the head sought nor the doctrine of the heauenlie maistor kepte. The whiche thynges if a man dooe consider and exa­mine, it shall not neede any long treati [...] orargumen­tes, Thus farre saincte Cyprian: Who calleth Christe originem veritatis, caput, vnum Ibidem Pa [...] ­lo infrà. caput, & originem v­nam, & magistrum coelestem &c. To saie: The begin­nyng of the truthe, the head, the onelie head, the onely beginnyng, the heauēlie schole maister, whose doctrine if we would obserue, we should not (saith S. Cyprian) neede any longe treatie or argumen [...]es, But for that this beginnyng of the truthe is not returned vnto, this heade is not soughte for, the doctrine of this h [...]auenlie schoolemaister is not kepte, he affirmeth it, to bee the cause of all heresies, schismes, endlesse contentions il­lusions of the deuill, & other mischieues in the church [...] in his tyme: as we likewise prooue it now to bee in our [Page] tyme. And therefore thei that seeke other beginnyn­ges, beside this onelie beginnyng, other heades, be­sides this onelie heade, other doctrines besides this doctrine of this onelie heauenlie schoole maister, are the verie authours of the saied schismes, heresies, endlesse contentions, and all other mischieues, whiche trouble the Churche of God. Now lette vs heare S. Augustine concernyng the scriptures and Councelles, who con­tendyng with the Artians, allegyng the Ariminense Contra Maxi­mi [...]um Arri­anorum epis­copum lib. 3. cap. 14. concilium for them, hath these woordes: Sed nunc nec ego Nicenum, nec tu debes Ariminense, tanquam prę­iudicaturus proferre concilium: nec ego huius autori­tate, nec tuillius detineris: scripturarum autoritatibus non quorum (que) proprijs, sed vtris (que) communibus testi­bus, res cum re, causa cu causa, ratio cum ratione cōfe­ratur &c. That is to say: But neither I ought to bring foorth the councell of Nice, nor thou the Councell of A­riminum, as one thereby to preiudice the oth [...]r: neither am I bounde to th'authoritie of the one, nor thou of the other. By the authoritie of the scriptures, not peculiar witnesses vnto either of vs, but common and indiffe­rent to bothe, let matter with matter, cause with cause, reason bee cōpared with reason. Thus farre S. Augu­stine. You sée that your Councelles (by S. Augustines iudgemēt) ought not to preiudice vs, beyng at contro­uersie with you: you se how your councelles are parti­all to you, as was the Ariminense councell to the Arri­ans, yea and muche more too: you see that S. Augustine would not in this case vse the authoritie of the Nicene councell, whiche yet of all other, had and hath the grea­test authoritie: and that therefore the authoritie of the Scriptures partiall to none, but common and indiffe­rent to all, is to bee vsed of all, and aboue all as iudge. Sainct Chrysostome cōcernyng the same writeth thus: [Page 73] Grauior est scripturarum ac prophetarū doctrina, quā Chrysost. de Lazaro con­cione. 4. siquid à mortuis resuscitati renūcient, quàm si angelus è coelo descendat: quae illi dicunt, serui sunt, qui loquun­tur: quae verò scripture loquuntur, loquutus est Domi­nus. Docet ergo nos Dn̄s, vt scripturis potiùs creden­dum existimemus, quàm caeteris omnibus. Whiche is to saie: More weightie is the doctrine of the Scripture and the Prophetes, then if suche as bee raised from the dead dooe reporte any thyng, or if an Angell dooe des­cende from heauen: as for the thinges that thei talke, thei bee but seruauntes that speake them: but whatso­euer the Scripture vttereth, the Lorde hath spoken it. The Lorde therefore dooeth teache vs, that wee should thinke, creadite should be rather geuen vnto the scrip­tures, then to all other thynges. These are the woordes of Chrysostome in that place. And in an other he saith. Nemo vult ad scripturas attendere: si enim aduertere­mus, Ch [...]ysost. in epist. ad Hebr. Homilia. 8. non solum nō incideremus in fallaciam, sed etiam alios deceptos inde liberaremus & periculo abstrahe­remus. That is to saie: No man will geue heede vnto the scriptures: for if wee did consider them, wee should not onelie not fall into errour our owne selues, but al­so therof deliuer other that are deceiued, and pull them from perill. So muche affirmeth Chrysostome. Sainct Hierome also agreeth to the same, who, speakyng of a Hieron. in Math. 23. matter conteined in the writynges called Apocrypha, saieth: Hoc, quia de scripturis non habet autoritatem, eadem facilitate contemnitur, qua probatur. That is Probatur, is proued or ap­proued. to saie: This, because it hath not the authoritie of scrip­ture for it, is as easely contēned, as proued. The same saincte Hierome, euen in an other place, alleged also in Causa. 24. Quaest. 1. cap. Nō adferam [...]. the Popes owne Canonnes, hath these woordes: Non adferamus stateras dolosas, vbi appendamus quod vo­lumus pro arbitrio nostro, dicentes, hoc graue est, hoc [Page] leue est: sed adferamus diuinam stateram de scripturis sacris, tanquam de thesauris dominicis: & in illa quid sit grauius appendamus. Whiche is to saie: Let vs not bryng deceiptfull balances, wherein wee maie weigh whatsoeuer wee luste at our owne discreation, saiyng this is heauie, this is light: but lette vs bryng the hea­uenlie balaunce of the holie Scriptures, as from the treasure of the Lorde: and therein lette vs weigh, what is of more weight. Thus muche concernyng the soue­raintie of the Scripture, I thought good to bryng out of the Doctours. Nowe touchyng the expoundyng and sense of the Scriptures, S. Augustine hath these woor­des: De doctrina Christiana lib. 3. cap. 26. Vbi apertius ponuntur [in scripturis sacris] ibi di­scendū est, quomodo ī locis intelligantur obscuris &c. Where thynges are more plainlie vttered in the scrip­tures, there must we learne how thei are to bee vnder­standed in darke places. These bee saincte Augustines woordes, who dooth often in sundrie places of his woor­kes inculcate and repeate the same. Saincte Chry­sostome Augu. lib. 83. quaest. Quaest. 53. &c. Chrysost. In 2. cap. Genes. Homilia. 13. agreeyng with saincte Augustine concernyng the same, hath these woordes. Ad ipsum diuinae scrip­turae scopum accedamus, quae seipsam interpretatur. & mox. Sacra scriptura seipsam exponit, & auditorem errare non sinit. Whiche is to saie: Let vs come to the leuell and marke of the holie scripture, whiche dooeth expounde it self. And by and by after. The sacred scrip­ture expoundeth it self, and suffereth not the hearer for to erre. Hitherto Chrysostome. Now concernyng the authoritie of the scriptures and the Churche, there is a moste notable and true declaration thereof in the aun­cient authour printed with Chrysostome, and of long tyme taken for hym, who vpon these woordes of our sauiour in the Gospell of sainct Mathewe, Qui sunt in Iudęa fugiant ad montes, That is to saie: Thei that be [Page 74] in Iewrie, let them flie to the mountaines, saith thus. In opere im­perfecto. Id est, qui sunt in Christianitate conferant se ad scrip­turas. Et quare in hoc tempore omnes Christiani con­ferre se ad scripturas debent? Quia in tempore hoc, ex quo obtinuit haeresis illas ecclesias, nulla probatio po­test esse verae Christianitatis, neque refugium potest esse Christianorum aliud, volentium cognoscere fidei veritatem, nisi scripturae diuinae. Antea enim multis modis ostendebatur, quae esset ecclesia Christi, & quae gentilitas: nunc autem nullo modo cognoscitur volen­tibus cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia Christi, nisi tan­tummodo per scripturas. Quare? Quia omnia hęc quae sunt propriè Christi in veritate, habet & heresis illa in schismate. Similiter ecclesias, similiter & ipsas scripturas diuinas, similiter episcopos, caeteros (que) ordines clerico­rum, similiter baptismum, similiter Eucharistiam, & cę­tera omnia, deni (que) ipsum Christū. Volens ergo cogno­scere, quę sit vera ecclesia Christi, vnde cognoscat ī tāta cōfusione similitudinis, nisi tantūmodo per scripturas? Itē ex moribus ipsis priùs ītelligebatur ecclesia Christi, quando cōuersatio Christianorū, aut omniū, aut mul­torum erat sancta, quę apud impios non erat. Nunc au­tē aut tales, aut peiores facti sunt Christiani, quales sūt hęretici, aut gentiles: adhuc autem & maior continētia apud illos inuenitur, quamuis in schismate sint, quàm a­pud Christianos. Qui ergo vult cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia Christi, vnde cognoscat, nisi tantummodo per scripturas? Sciens ergo Dominus tantam confusionem rerum in nouissimis diebus esse futuram: ideo mandat, vt Christiani, qui sunt ī Christianitate, volentes firmi­tatem accipere verae fidei, ad nullam rem fugiant, nisi ad scripturas. Alioqui si ad alia respexerint, scandalizabū ­tur, & peribunt, non intelligentes quae sit vera ecclesia. That is to saie: Let them that bee in Christianitie, flie [Page] to the scriptures. And wherfore ought al Christians at this time, to flie to the scriptures? Because in this time sith heresies possessed those Churches, there can bee no proofe of true christianitie, neither can there be any o­ther refuge of Christians, desiryng to knowe the true faithe, but the diuine scriptures. For before it was de­clared by many meanes, whiche was the true churche, and whiche was Gentilitie: but now, thei who would knowe whiche is the true churche, can knowe it by no meanes, but onelie by the scriptures. Why so? For all these thinges, whiche are properly Christes in y^e truth, the same hath heresie also in schisme. Heresie hath chur­ches likewise, and the diuine Scriptures likewise: Bi­shops likewise, and other orders of clearkes: Baptisme likewise, the sacramente of thankes geuyng likewise, and all other thinges: to conclude, euen Christ himself. He therefore that would knowe, whiche is the true churche of Christ, how can he knowe it in so greate cō ­fusion of likelihoode, but onely by the scriptures? Fur­ther, the churche of Christ might be knowen before by the maners of it, when the conuersation either of all, or of the moste parte of Christians was holie, whiche was not so emongest the wicked. But now Christians are become either suche, or woorse then be the heretikes or Gentiles: yea there is greater continencie emongeste them, though thei bee in schisme, then is emongest the Christians. He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe, how can he knowe it, but onelie by the scriptures? The Lorde therefore know­yng that in the last daies there would be so greate con­fusion of thinges, dooeth commaunde that Christians, whiche be in Christianitie, willyng to haue the suertie of true faithe, dooe flie to no other thing but to the scrip­tures. Els if thei haue respecte to other thynges, thei [Page 75] shall stumble, or faile of the truthe, and perishe, not vn­derstāding Scandaliza­buntur. whiche is the true churche. Thus farre that aunciente author: whose sentence and verie woordes, though for auoidyng of prolixitie alittle intermitted, I haue truely rehearsed. You maie see that this auncient writer will not allowe, that you beeyng the one partie should claime to your self the name of Christians, the name of the churche, the names of bishops, and the na­mes of the cleargie, and so to take vpon you as iudges to condemne the other partie: but that bothe you and wee must be iudged and tried whether we be in Chri­stianitie, and in the true church, by the scriptures. You see the names of the churche, of Bishops and cleargie, whiche are common to heretikes with Christians, can not prooue you to bee catholikes, for that heretikes vse the same names: but that bothe you and wee muste knowe by the Scriptures, whether wee bee in the true faithe, or no: for that (as he saieth) in this confusion of thinges bothe the true churche, and the true faith must bee knowen by the Scriptures onelie, and by no other thyng: and that whosoeuer goeth aboute otherwise to knowe them, shall stumble and perishe. Wherein this author dooeth agree with S. Augustine, S. Hierome, S. Chrysostome, and with all the olde Doctours of the auncient churche. Whereby al men maie well vnder­stande, that it is not our newe opinion (as M. Dorman would haue it seme) but the olde true perswasion of all the auncient doctors and godly fathers of the primitiue churche, that the Scriptures, as moste indifferent and certaine, ought to be iudges in controuersies in religi­on, rather then Doctours, then Councelles, then your Churche, then dead menne, then angelles, yea that the scriptures should bee iudge, and not thei. And that the true sense of scriptures, if doubte rise thereof, maie bee [Page] and must be gathered by the conference of the scriptu­res, who doo clearly expounde themselues. For the de­claration whereof the said doctors doo so often and lar­gely write, that the rehersall thereof would fil an huge volume: but I did thinke that this much would suffice. But you Papistes will neuer allowe the Scripture as iudge, nor the sense thereof to be certaine, vntill it come to the exposition of the Churche: and you will bee that churche, that must so expounde it, your self: that is, you will graūt no sense to be true, but your own sense. But wee deny that you are the true Churche, that hath this autoritie of determinyng of the sense of the scriptures. And if you will saie still, your are the churche, & neither will, nor can proue it, but onely by so saiyng, we be not so voide of all sense and vnderstāding, but that we per­ceiue you will haue no sense but your owne, and that you will be still, bothe parties and iudges in your own causes againste vs, as the Iuishe high Prieste, Phari­seis, and Scribes would needes be against Christ and his Apostles: who did (by your iudgemēt, as it semeth) allege the scriptures for themselues againste the saied high Prieste, Scribes and Phariseis in vaine, for that thei being the churche, as you now be, were the iudges of the sense of the saied scriptures by Christ and his A­postles alleged. And I am sure that the high Prieste, with his Iuishe churche, was able to saie as muche for the ordinarie succession of the high Priestes his prede­cessours, euen from Aaron vntil his time, for antiqui­tie, for consente, and for vniuersalitie, againste Christe and his Apostles (so fewe in comparison, and, as it see­med, latelie starte vp): as you are able to saie for your churche, or against vs. But yet we doo thinke that the woorde of God, as it was alleged by Christe and his A­postles against the saied high priest, and his churche, so [Page 76] maie it and ought also to be alleged by vs, against your high priest, and your churche: and that the same woords of God whiche shal iudge bothe you & vs in the worlde to come, as is saied, ought also to be iudge betwéen you and vs here in this transitorie worlde: for so dooeth our sauiour Christ teache, so doo S. Chrysostome, S. Au­gustine, Ioan. 12. g. 48. and S. Hierome, with all the auncient doctors of the Churche teache also, as hath been partely besore specified, crie you neuer so muche to the contrarie, and make you neuer so many exceptions to the scriptures, and claime vnto your selues, as beyng the churche, the interpretatiō thereof: yet suche are both your doctrine, and dooynges, and so contrarie to the woorde of God, (whervpon the true churche is builded) that we muste needes thinke that you are not the true church of God. And whether you so bee or no, seeyng it is in question, and a greater doubte and controuersie emongest men, I am sure, then can bee about the sense of any place of the scripture, you shall neuer bee able to make any ex­ception vnto the Scripture, as no competent iudge in controuersies, but we shall be able tenne tymes more to make exception to your Pope, and his churche, as no indifferent nor meete iudge. Wherefore cease once to bragge of that, as the vndoubted iudge of all doubtes, whiche is it self emongest men, of all other doubtes the greatest doubt: that is, whether you be the true church of God, or no. Whiche is with vs in deede no doubte, nor with any that hath any vnderstandyng in Goddes woorde, and iudgemente in true religion. For we cer­tainlie knowe by the woorde of God, vpon the whiche as the true churche is builded, so is it by the same to be knowen, that you bee not the churche of God, for that you so swarue from the woorde of God. As for vs, that wee are at your handes, though we bryng so euidente [Page] scriptures for vs, so reiected and condemned, wee take it the better, for that wée vnderstande that our sauiour Christe, and his holie Apostles, likewise allegyng the scriptures, yea and further by their woonderfull woor­kes, and moste godlie life, confirmyng the same, were by the high Priestes, Phariseis, and Scribes, reiected, condemned, and siaine: an eternall documente, that in this worlde no persone, nor doctrine can satisfie al men, or shall be taken for a iudge of controuersies aboue all exception and quarellyng: seyng that Christe hymself, so teachyng, so woorkyng, so liuyng, was excepted vn­to, as a Daemoniake, or one possessed with the Deuill, as a friende to sinners, as a wine drinker: and seeyng Math. 21. d. 42. 1. Pet. 2. b. 6. 7. 8 that heade corner stone was, as vnprofitable to the buildyng of Gods churche, and his holie woorde also, as false doctrine, reiected by the high priestes, Scribes, and Phariseis, who would needes be the iudges of all, themselues. And wee conceiue good hope, that as our sauiour himself, with his holie Apostles, teachyng the truthe, though reiected, and murdered by the said high Priestes, Scribes, and Phariseis, haue wonne vnto them the iudgementes of all godlie men and wemen, against suche vnrighteous iudges: so we likewise tea­chyng the same truthe of our Sauiour, reueiled in his holie Gospell, though of this high priest and Romishe Caiphas, with his adherentes, Popishe Scribes, and Phariseis, reiected, condemned, and murthered, shall against suche vniuste iudges, winne vnto vs the iudge­ment of all godlie menne and wemen: as, to the greate decaie of their false superstition, & successe of the truthe, is this daie, thankes bee to God, partlie come to passe, in a greate parte of the Christian worlde.

Nowell.

Now proceadeth he pleasantlie, and by a parable of a certaine felone, all to shaketh vs out of our cloutes, as he praied he might be suffered to dooe. In the hand­lyng [Page] whereof, it maie seeme he hath dealte as he was wonte, when some of his felowes had forgotten their partes in the plaie, to holde men occupied for the time, by suppliyng that defecte with some pretie conceites, or tellyng of some merie tale, thereby to make the au­ditours to laugh, and the lesse to marke the mased me­morie of his mates, and so to saue the matter from vt­ter marryng, as muche as in hym might lye. In like wise dooeth maister Dorman here: for where he hath to proue, that of necessitie there must be one onely chief heade here in earth, ouer the Churche (whiche is in deede, the firste and moste necessarie parte of the whole treatie of the Popes supremacie, and the verie founda­tion of all: whiche not proued, or els leudly proued, all the reste commeth doune vpon their heades: For the whiche so greate a matter, little beyng as yet saied by M. Dorman, and nothyng in deede, and lesse remai­nyng behinde to bee saied): the man beyng destitute of all carnest matter, piththie reason, and good authoritie, turneth himself to his accustomed arte, and by a pretie tale of a certaine felone, all to shaketh vs (as he before threatned he would dooe) out of our masking cloutes, as he termeth them: and this he dooeth to supplie other defectes thereby, and to make this first parte (moste ne­cessarie of all to be piththily proued) by suche patchyng of i [...] vp, at the leaste, a quarter as bigge as his seconde part of this treatie, to witte, that no prince, or lay man maie be the onely head of the whole Churche, for that priestes haue more to doo in ecclesiastical matters, thā thei haue. Whiche so long an impertinente parte, had M. Dorman put vp in his purse, and passed ouer with silence, he had spared a greate deale of paper, ynke, and labour, and of other mennes tyme also a greate deale more: and had hurte his cause no more thereby, then if [Page 78] he had lefte his dagger sheathe behynde hym, when he came out in haste to plaie his parte in the pagiaunte. But now to helpe the poore surmised felone somwhat: if he appealyng for the triall of his innocencie to God, can bryng for hym so many testimonies of Gods owne mouthe, as wee are able for our innocencie to brynge testimonies of woordes proceadyng from the mouthe of God, and of our sauiour Iesus Christ, and yet it will not serue the seelie felowe, nor healpe hym any thyng in his plea of not guiltie: then I thinke there can not bee a fitter lawe, whereby to proceade againste hym, then the Popes Canons: (whiche you knowe well M. Dorman, for you haue therein spente more tyme, then in the studie of the Scriptures) neither can he haue a meeter iudge to condemne hym, then the Pope hym­self: and an handsomer man, emongest all men to bee, I will not saie, his hangman, but the foreman of a Po­pishe quest, to passe against the seelie soule, shall not a­ny manne I beleue easilie finde, nor a fitter then is M. Dorman. And thus I lette this his parable passe. For that he by the waie saith, that there is in our case, beside the scriptures, an other heade to order vs, and kéepe vs vnder, meanyng the Pope: it is true, there is suche a one in deede, that hath too longe kepte vs, and all the worlde too vnder, by his false hypocrisie, and horrible tyrannie: and he maie also bee called an heade of the churche, by the same phrase, as Sardanapalus, Nero, Heliogabalus, and suche like monsters were named heades of the cōmon wealthe, whiche thei vtterly sub­uerted: and he is in deede the head, and husbande too of that cruell stepdame the Popishe Synagoge, beeyng a moste horrible murtherer of those, whose mother she would be accompted to be. That he saieth, Christe the thief heade of all, vseth in all necessarie knowledge to [Page] geue answere by this head, to witte the Pope: it is M. Dormans position, and a false fable. The filthie spiri­tes that are called Ventriloqui, are more méete to geue answere by suche a polluted mouth. Now that it plea­seth M. Dorman to ioigne vs with felons, and to con­clude, that wee as well as thei bee theeues: and that, as felons would without controlment robbe the bodie, so would we, & doo murther mennes soules: he fareth here­in with vs, as did an hastie scholde once with an honest woman, callyng her whoore at the first woorde, for feare leaste the other should haue happened firste vpon her name, whiche was the same. For it is well knowen to the worlde, that the Papistes themselues be rather the­ues, and murtherers: who, by their pardons and Mas­ses, and other suche their pedlar pilfrey, set a sale, haue picked all mennes purses, and of the temple of God, by suche buiyng and selling haue made a dēne of theeues: Math. 21. b. 13 Math. 23. b. 14. Mar. 12. d. 40. and vnder the colour of long praiers, of Diriges, soule Masses, and Trentalles, haue spoiled poore widowes houses, often tymes takyng awaie by the name of a Mortuarie the onely Cowe, whiche with her Milke should haue fedde the sorowfull poore widowe, and a seelie sorte of fatherlesse children. Whiche Papistes al­so, as thei haue with all crueltie murthered infinite numbers of Christian mennes bodies, so haue thei by their poysoned doctrine slaine infinitelie moe thousan­des of mennes soules, then thei haue murdered bodies: and so haue plaied all partes, and fulfilled all poinctes of perfecte theeues and murderers too. So that a Po­pishe prieste might moste iustlie bee termed by a Plau­tine periphrasis, trifur trifurcifer.

Nowell.

Now that M. Dorman hath refreshed his readers with his pleasaunte pastyme, folowyng the preceptes of his Rhetorike, he retourneth to earnest againe, and falleth to examination of this reason, Christe is head of the Churche: Ergo the Pope is not: Ergo it can haue none other heade. The antecedente he graunteth, con­fessyng Dorman. fo. 8. a Et antè, h [...]c libro. fol. 67. that none of their sorte euer denied it, though a little before he made a greate wonderyng at it, in­quiryng by a musing interrogatorie, what head thinke you good readers appoincte thei to gouerne Christes church? &c. And the argumēt also is good, the churche beyng taken as it is there in the Apologie, for the vni­uersall churche, which hath not, nor can possiblie haue any one earthly head ouer it, to gouerne it: as hath béen often at large heretofore declared. Maister Dormans examples of Christes ministers of his holie Sacramē ­tes here in earth, make rather against hym, then with hym: for one chief heade hath many vnderministers in diuers seruices and places vsuallie: but what pertei­neth that to proue that there muste bee one [...]eade ouer all places, and seruices ecclesiasticall throughout the whole worlde? Whiche is vnpossible to bee. Neither can your Scholasticall distinction of caput absolutum, and ministeriale, healpe the matter: nor yet Hosius de­claration Hosius contra Brēt. li. 1. fo. 38. tendyng to the same ende, how Bishops bee both seruauntes and lordes, can in this case any thyng further you. For there can not possiblie bee one onelie [Page 80] head minister in earth ouer all the churche throughout the whole worlde, more then there can bee one vniuer­sall ciuill heade in earth ouer all the worlde it self. But note the intollerable ambition of the Pope, who when he saw he could not defēde the name of the Head of the vniuersall church, rather then he would loose that onely sounde of this name, Head of the church, he quali [...]ieth it with ministeriale, to saie, a seruing head of the church: he might as good cheape haue been contente with the single title of a minister of y^e churche. And so he semeth sometyme colourablie in shewe to be contente, callyng hymself, seruum seruorum Dei, the seruaunt of the ser­uauntes of God. But he plaieth in deede, Rex Regum & dominus dominantium. I knowe M. Dorman dooth so qualifie this the Popes supremacie, terming him ca­put ministeriale, the ministeriall head, for that Christe is the absolute heade of all. But yet in respecte of the whole churche, as beyng vnder the Pope, he will haue hym called caput, the heade. But I would haue hym to make that relation of caput, and these woordes Seruus seruuorum to agree, and to bee bothe caput, and seruus or minister respectu eiusdem: the head, and the seruaūt in one respecte: specially claimyng suche a kinde of ca­pitalitie as dooeth the Pope, whiche can not agrée with the humble ecclesiasticall ministerie. And I thinke he shall finde some difficultie, and muche hypocrisie, and more crueltie of suche a headie seruaunte, and seruile head: who if he be head, he is a cruel and frantike head, mangling his owne members, as did Lyrurgus in his furious phrensie: if he be a seruaunt, he plaieth the false traitour, murdering his felowe seruantes, whose part, at the commyng of the Lorde, shalbee with hypocri­tes and homicides. You might therefore as good cheape graunt the Pope simplie to bee minister ecclesiae, a mi­nister [Page] of the churche, and therefore no head, but an in­ferior to the Churche vniuersall. But the truthe is in deede, that the Pope is neither heade, nor minister of Christes churche, but a sworne enemie to bothe: which he well declareth by his ragyng furie againste the true churche, and members of Christ our head. M. Dorman harpeth to muche vpon this one stryng, out of tune for his purpose: I meane the example of the Iewishe high prieste, whiche as it declareth that it were good, that e­uery seueral churche of euery seuerall nation had their seuerall head Bishop, so dooeth it prooue nothyng that all churches of all nations must haue one onely heade in earth, whiche is not possible to be. That he saith (as dooeth Hosius) God would by this one earthly head the Pope, shewe his exceadyng greate loue towardes mā ­kinde, is a manifest lie: for it is euidente by experience that the Deuill the homicide, the head of helle, hath, by this his principall minister the Pope, shewed his mur­deryng malice againste mankinde, more then euer he did by any Nerons, Domitians, Maximines, or suche like bloudie tyrauntes. And as the deuill hath vsed the Pope his ministers handes to al murders, so hath that prince of darkenesse and father of lies, by the Popes meanes moste darkened the light of Christes Gospell, and hath vsed his polluted mouthe and tongue, there­by to vtter all lies and blasphemies againste God, and the truthe of his woorde.

Nowell.

We dooe not sticke with you, nor with Hosius your author about this name, Head, but that it maie be at­tributed to men, as to the kynges and Iudges of Isra­el, Saule, Dauid, and suche like. But I praie you cō ­sider by the waie, when the scripture saieth that Saule was by God made head ouer the tribes of Israel (whi­che 1. Reg. 15. place Hosius, and you dooe allege) whether he wer appoincted heade ouer the tribe of Leui also, that is, o­uer the Cleargie, as well as ouer other tribes: for that is to be considered. We knowe that Christ is the onely heade ouer all, and that he vseth kynges to bee seuerall heades vnder him vpon earth in their seuerall domini­ons, as sigismunde in Polonia (for Hosius vseth that example) but we knowe aswell againe that God vseth no one kyng to be the onelie earthlie heade vnder hym ouer all the worlde, whiche yet bothe Hosius and you should conclude, M. Dorman, if you would bryng in these examples, to gather thereby that there oughte to bee one head in earth vnder Christe ouer all churches, throughout the whole worlde dispersed: for so should you haue prooued the saiyng of the Apologie vntrue, and our argumente faultie. But where the Apologie and we dooe thus reason: Christe is the onelie head o­uer [Page] the vniuersall churche, Ergo he needeth not any o­ther generall head in earth vnder hym, neither can any mortall man be any suche head: You, like a good Logi­cian stickyng to the matter, dooe prooue that there bee diuers seuerall heades in the Churche vnder Christe, whiche wée neuer denied, no more then wée denie that there bée seuerall kynges & rulers in earth vnder God: though we denie that there is one onelie kyng or Em­perour of all the worlde. But neither by your Logike shall you euer prooue, nor by your Rhetorike perswade to any reasonable men, by suche vnreasonable reaso­nyng, and examples impertinente, that there is, or can be any one head in earth vnder Christ, either of all the worlde, or of all the Churche dispersed thr [...]ughout the worlde. For to gouerne the whole world, or the whole Churche, is the peculiar and onelie office of God, and Christ, and a thyng vnpossible to any earthlie manne, who hath muche, and to muche a dooe well to gouerns one little parcell thereof, as I haue saied before. And where you mingle kynges & Bishops together, whose offices are distincte, and vse the examples of the Arche­bishop of Canterburie, and the bishop of Lōdon: what titles so euer your bishoppes, when thei were in those roumes, vsed, or abused, I am sure thei, who bee now in place, take it for their chief honour, to bee, and to bee called also Gods ministers in his churche. And as you shall neuer prooue any one head in earth temporall, or spirituall, [...]u [...]r all: so dooe I affirme, that I shall more easilie prooue the title of heades of particular churches to appertaine to kynges & princes, who haue by Gods lawe the offices of ruling by dominion appoincted thē, then you shalbe able to maintaine, that any suche pre­sumptuous title can appertaine to bishoppes, who are forbidden dominiō, and haue ministerie to their office: [Page 82] as I doubte nothyng but it shall hereafter clearlie fall out betwéene you and me, to the satisūyng of all godlie and discreate readers, and withall, as I truste, to the confusion of all Romishe vsurpers of that false supre­macie. Yet denie I not, but that Bishops maie be and haue been, though improperlie, named heades euen by good writers, as the Scholemaister of a prince, in that the prince is his scholer, is his heade, ruler, and gouer­nour, though otherwise in deede he be the princes sub­iecte, by hym and his lawes, where he offendeth, to be punished.

Nowell.

It is true, the Apologie and wee all likewise saie, that neither hath Christ neede of any suche one onelie 1 head Vicar ouer all his churche, whiche M. Dorman a little before dooeth confesse hymself: Neither is it Chri­stes Fol. 9. b. will to haue any suche head vicar. For though M. 2 Dorman affirme that he so would, yet shall he neuer by the holie Scripture, wherein Christes will is decla­red, be able to prooue it. Thirdlie it is impossible for a­ny 3 earthlie man to haue, and to execute any suche office of vicar generall vnder Christ. And I am sure that M. Dorman, with the aide of all Papistes in Christen­dome, is nt able to prooue these three poinctes, or one of them, vntrue. Whiche yet thei must doo, els lieth all Romishe supremacie in the duste.

Nowell.

A friendlie man at neede, and a trustie counsailer: and as good and piththie a reasoner for the Pope, as trustie friend to vs: Who hath little regard to his own poore honestie, and lesse to the cause whiche he main­taineth, when of blinde malice, harping vpon a wrong stryng, woorse then euer did yet any blinde harper be­fore hym, he would haue vs séeme like to Suenkfeldi­us, from whose vile heresies we be as farre, as the Pa­pistes be nere vnto them: whiche shall, I trust, appeare euidentlie, euen by M. Dorman his own harpyng vpō this string. Whiche string yet he confesseth here in his marginall note, y^t he learned of Harper Hosius to strike after this sorte: no doubt but vpon respecte of his poore honestie, he thought it meete once to confesse that he al­waies dooeth, boldlie borowyng of other, and brag­gyng thereof as of his owne: whiche thyng is moste v­suall, [Page] as well to his maister D. Hardyng, as to al other the aduersaries now writyng. But to the matter: first that wee are moste contrarie to Swenkefcilde and his heresies, by the bookes of our men written largely a­gainste them, is moste manifest: and the same shall bee made more euident and manifest by M. Dorman hym­self in this place. Suenkfeldius, saieth M. Dorman, hol­deth this abhominable heresie, that wee ought to ba­nishe vtterly from emongeste vs all scriptures. Wee saie, that wee ought aboue all thynges to reteine the holie Scriptures, and that besides them, there is no­thyng but errour and darkenesse. Thou muste not bee perfecte in Scriptures, saieth this stinckyng heretike Swenckfield. (These be M. Dormans woordes of hym). Wee saie: euery Christian ought to bee studious of the holie Scriptures, and to labour to attaine to as greate perfection therein, as mortall menne possiblie maie in Gods wisedome, conteined in the same. Suenckfeldius saieth, as M. Dorman reporteth, The scripture is not Gods woorde, but dead letters, and no more accompte to bee made thereof then of other creatures. We saie, the Scriptures are the verie woordes of GOD, the woorde of life: in the whiche, life euerlastyng is to bée soughte, and founde: and that the Scriptures are the moste diuine gifte of God, and aboue all other giftes, creatures and thynges, excepte onelie, his onely sonne incarnate, of whom thei testifie, and whose blessed woorde thei be. Swenkfeild saieth, wee must looke to bee taughte from heauen, not out of bookes, and that the holy ghost vseth to come from aboue, without the helpe of meanes, as hearyng, preachyng, and readyng the scriptures. We saie, we maie not looke for vaine re­uelations from heauen, but must marke what Christ [...] the heauenlie doctor and schoolemaister speaketh to vs [Page 84] in his holie woorde, in that diuine booke of his blessed testamente, as we haue receiued commaundement fró his father, ipsum audite: heare hym: wee saie what re­uelation so euer bee made contrarie, or not agreeyng with Christes blessed Gospell, bee it by an angell from heauen, it is not of the holie ghaste, but from that an­gell of darkenesse, trāsforming hymself into an angell of light: and that therefore we must come to knowlege of Gods will, and to our saluation, by hearyng, prea­thyng, or readyng of the Scriptures. Now concludeth M. Dorman, after the rehearsall of these Swenkfildes heresies, saiyng thus: these bee that wicked heretike his foolishe and vnsauerie persuasions. We saie, and these bee our true, and to vs moste sweete perswasions, not onelie of the profitablenesse, but also the necessitie of the Scriptures, that truthe, healthe, light, life, and sal­uation is to bee saught, and to bee had in them, and by them, and without them can not be had: and these per­swasions haue wee gathered not of vaine reuelations, but of the verie same holie Scriptures themselues, as of the fountaine of al infallible veritie. Wherefore, M. Dorman, you haue dooen nothyng els, but bewraied your moste malicious blindenesse, in saiyng that it is no other thing, that the Huguenotes & heretikes doo: and that vve doo leane & reste vpon the self same rea­sons and groundes, as did Suenkfeldius: and vvithall as in a credible matter, to praie the good readers to iudge indifferently herein, to beleue rather their ovvne iud­gementes then you, and to tell them that thei shall see and perceiue moste plainely that you lye not. Where­vnto we saie, we trust that not onelie indifferente rea­ders, but all other also moste partiall of your side, M. Dorman, shall sée, and will iudge that fire is not more contrarie in nature to water, nor lighte to darkenesse, [Page] then are we to Suenkfeldius: and our true perswasions of the Scriptures, grounded vpon the sure rocke of the same Scriptures, contrarie and repugnaunte to his abominable heresies, waueryng vpon the vncertaine sandes of false phantasticall reuelations. And therefore we doubt nothing, but al wise indifferent readers will plainly perceiue, that ye lie moste shamefully, and will abhorre and detest your malice, an deride and hisse out your blindenesse, who thought them so blinde that thei could iudge no colours: and your partiall readers will blushe, I doubte not, at your doultishe dooynges, and peraduenture beshrowe your harte, or rather your foo­lishe heade, that hath handled their parte in suche slen­der sorte. And I for our parte, where you deale with vs thus not vnfriendlie onelie, but moste falslie, malici­ouslie, and pestilenilie also, and dooe yet make a pre­face of a friendlie aduertiser of vs, dooe saie to you, as our sauiour saied to a like friend of his, Amice, ad quid venisti? For as you (like as did D. Hardyng your mai­ster) haue with Iudas forsaken Christ the truth (whose true doctrine you call Caluins religion) and ioigned a­gainst In the praeface in the begin­nyng. hym with the high Priestes, Scribes, and Pha­riseis, in hope of worldly gaine: so geue you vs as friē ­dlie aduertisemente, as Iudas offered Christ a friendly kisse. Well, now we haue truelie prooued, and clearly declared, that we are not onelie vnlike, but moste cō ­trarie to Suenkfeldius, and his vile heresies, by you re­hearsed, let vs yet sée how M. Dorman would make vs to seme like vnto hym. Svvenkfield (saith M. Dorman) dooeth saie, vve must haue no Scripture &c. The Hu­guenotes and heretikes saie, vve must haue no Pope of Rome to bee head of Christes vniuersall churche. Loe sir, you see a greate likenesse betweene them. Tarie, you shall heare more matter of likelihoode yet. Suenk­feldius [Page 85] saieth, the Scriptures are but deade letters: The heretikes saie, the Pope is but a sinfull man, as other be. Hath he not trowe you, shewed a verie greate simili­tude betwene Suenkfeldius and vs? But yet he conclu­deth at the laste bothe earnestly and effectuously as you shall heare. Finallie, saieth M. Dorman, the Swenkfel­dians barre God of all meanes to worke by, and there­fore thei dooe reiecte the Scriptures to teache by, for that God is the teacher himself: likewise dooe the pro­testantes, saith M. Dorman, whiles thei alowe him not one heade minister to gouerne his vniuersall Churche in externall gouernement, because that Christe gouer­neth it hymself. Whiche reason wée are contented that M. Dorman goe awaie withall, when he hath prooued as clearelie, that it is Gods will to gouerne the whole Churche by suche a Romishe head: as we can clearelie prooue, that it is his wil to teache vs by the scriptures. And further M. Dorman maie bee ashamed to saie, so doe the Huguenotes (for so it pleaseth him to terme vs) so dooe thei in likewise barre Christe of all meanes to woorke by, as dooeth Swenkfield. Dooe we so M. Dor­man? Dooe wee not allowe hym a minister to gouerne his Churche, who doo allowe hym, as he hymself hath ordeined, in euery Churche one at the leaste, to preache his holie will, and to minister his holie Sacramentes accordyng to his owne holie institution? But M. Dor­man is not content that we allowe Christ euery where one minister, except we also allowed him one al where ouer all. But good M. Dorman, it belongeth to one onelie Christe, to gouerne his Churche all where: and one onelie man, shall haue enough to dooe, and more then he can dooe, to performe the office of a good mini­ster of Christ, some where in one onelie Parishe, or dio­cesse. Wherefore as we muche mislike the vndiscreate [Page] ambition of some worldlie Princes, who when thei cā not well gouerne one kyngdome, doo yet desire many: so dooe wee vtterlie abhorre and condemne to the De­uill the authour hereof, the excessiue and vnsatiable ambition of the bishop of Rome, who neuer being able yet well to gouerne the Churche of the citie of Rome, as is well knowen to the worlde, nor to rule his Col­ledge of Cardinalles, yet desireth the gouernment and supremacie ouer all churches throughout the worlde: and is named in the booke of his owne Sext. Decre. lib 5. tit. 9. ca. 5. ī glossa. Ro­manus ponti­fex totiꝰ o [...]bis est episcopus. Canon lawe, the bishoppe of the whole worlde. Yea, and not content with that spirituall Monarchie, chalengeth Sext. Decre. lib. 3. tit. 16. ca. vnico. in glos­sa. Papa totius orbis obtinet principatum. the domi­nion of all the worlde it self also to apperteine to hym▪ whiche neuer yet did any besides hym, but the Deuill himself: of whom whether the Pope holde it by inheri­taunce, as his eldest soonne and heire: or by ferme, as his tenaunte geuerall: or as his deputie, and Bailiffe errande, I knowe not: but sure I am, that what right so euer he hath therto, and by what tenure so euer he holdeth it, he holdeth it of the Deuill, who chalengeth the same as chief Lorde, and hath made offer thereof to suche as would wholie serue hym. But GOD I Math. 4. am sure, or our Sauiour Christ neuer made any suche offer or promise to any mortall man: naie, our Sauiour Math. 20. d. 25. &. 26. Christe, as he hymself refused suche offer made to hym: so he specially forbiddeth the affectatiō of suche worldly dominion to all his Apostles: & consequentlie by them to all the Cleargie. Where as M. Dorman proceadeth saiyng, that wee tell Christe that he is of age, and able to dooe it hymself, and that therefore there is no re­medie but he muste needes come doune, and geue an­swere to all our wise demaundes in his owne persone: I truste all men doo knowe, that M. Dorman did know, that he lied leudelie whē he did write this. For he kno­weth [Page 86] right well, as shortly hereafter hymself cōfesseth Dorman fol. 11 b. &. 12. 2. the same, that wee thinke it enough that Christe hath once come doune to teache vs, and that wee looke for none other answere of Christe, then he hath alreadie geuen in his holie Gospell, whiche he preached once for all in his corporall presence, and confirmed the truthe of the same by visible and corporall miracles: and that therefore he speakyng, and answeryng vs in his holie woorde, to all demaundes necessarie for our saluation, needeth not any corporall presence, his woorde and Go­spell written satisfiyng vs, as well as though wee did se hym, and heare hym speake, with our corporall eyes, and eares. And maister Dorman, and all the aduersa­ries to the truthe maie bee ashamed to charge vs, as not allowyng Christe meanes to woorke his spiritual grace by, but vexyng hym, by callyng for his corporall presence: wheras thei themselues (as those that thinke he can dooe nothing, excepte he bee corporallie present) would turmoile hym euery howre, and minute also from place to place, yea and would imprison hym also in narrowe and streight roumes, passyng little ease in the towre of London manifolde. And so thei allowyng hym no meanes to woorke by, but that he muste nee­des come doune in his owne persone, dooe as iustlie ioigne in this poincte with Suenkfeldius, as thei falslie charge vs therewith: whereas wee dooe acknowledge that Christe, though corporallie absente, by his diuine power, is able, and dooeth dailie and howerly woorke his manifolde graces in vs, by sundrie ordinarie mea­nes, suche as hymself hath appoincted and instituted: and that by his moste holie woorde he dooeth teache vs as effectuallie, as though he were corporallie presente: And by his blessed Sacramentes of Baptisme, and of his supper he deriueth (as it were) his graces vnto vs: [Page] by the one regeneratyng and reuiuyng vs in hymself, who were before vnhappilie borne, and deade borne in Adam: by the other nourishyng & refreshyng our hun­grie and thristie soules, with the foode of his blessed bo­die and bloude, as effectuallie, as though he were with vs corporally present. This dooeth M. Dorman and the aduersaries knowe, & therfore when M. Dorman saith, that we barre Christe of all meanes to woorke by, M. Dorman and all the worlde muste also needes knowe, that M. Dormā lieth bothe shamefullie, and wittyngly too. Now that you vnderstande how M. Dorman hath moste vntruelie charged vs as allies to Suenkfeldius, who doo moste abhorre, and are moste farre from hym, & his vile heresies, let me sée whether, as I haue shewed a verie great likenesse & conformitie to be betwene Suēk­feldius & the Papistes, in this laste poincte of allowyng Christ no meane to woorke by, and therefore requiring his corporall presence: so I can prooue the like cōformi­tie betwéen them & him likewise in al other pointes by M. Dorman here specified. Suenkfeldius emōgst others holdeth this most abominable heresie, That we ought Dorman, Fol. 10. a. to banishe vtterlie from emongeste vs all Scriptures. Dooe not the Papistes themselues, forbiddyng the Novvell. scriptures to be readde of the Laitie, kéepyng the scrip­tures hid in an vnknowen tongue, burnyng the scrip­tures written in knowen language, go as nere to this abominable heresie of Suenkfeldius, as wee are moste farre from the same? Who dooe iudge and teache, that all men, of all sortes ought with diligence to reade, or heare the scriptures. Thou must not be perfecte in the Dorman. Fol. 10. b. Scriptures, saieth this stinkyng heretike Suenkfeldius: the scripture is not his worde, but dead letters, and no more accompte to be made of them, then of any other creatures, emongest the whiche thei are to be rekened. [Page 87] Thou must not bee perfecte in the scriptures, saie these Nowell. false Papistes to all laie men: it is ignoraunce that is the mother of deuotion: it sufficeth a laie man to haue fidem implicitam, an implicate faithe, yea so implicate, that the moste parte of seelie men vnder Poperie, cā no more explicate what thei beleue, then can a Popiniay: yea and Popiniaye like, bothe rehearsyng that their implicate faithe, and praiyng in a straunge language, thei can no more tell what thei saie, then dooth the Po­piniay, whiche biddeth her dame good night maistres, at midde daie. And the Papistes speake of the holy scri­ptures, not onelie as vnreuerentlie, and abominablie, as euer did Swenkfield, but dooe farre passe hym in al outrage, calling the Scriptures moste contumeliously, and blasphemous [...]ie a nose of waxe: and affirmyng it to be but an vncertaine thyng, and like a rule of Lead ap­pliable to euery wicked sentence, and to all purposes, excepte it haue the Popes direction as a moste certaine infallible rule. I will rehearse the verie wordes of that blasphemous beaste, and as Popishe a swine, as euer was Swenkfielde a stinkyng heretike: I meane Pi­ghius in his Hierarchie, or defence of the Popes supre­macie, written in our time, of whom Hosius hath béen as bold to borowe his reasons and authorities, as your maister doctor Hardyng hath been bolde to borowe of Hosius, and as you M. Dorman haue been bolde with D. Hardyng hymself your maister, to whom you owe a greate part of this your booke, suche as it is. Pighius woordes are these: Sunt scripturae [vt non minus verè Hierarch. li. [...] ▪ ca. 3. fol. 103. d. quàm festiuè dixit quidā] velut nasus cereus, qui se hor­sum, illorsum, & in quam volueris partem, trahi, retrahi, fingique facilè permittit, & tanquam plumbea quedam Lesbiae aedificationis regula, quam non sit difficile ac­cōmodare ad quiduis volueris. Et rursum. Suprà indi­cauimus, Liber. 3. cap. 3▪ Fol. 211. b. [Page] scripturas facilè trahi quocun (que), & velut plū ­beam quandam regulam, haud difficulter applicari im­piae cuiuis sententiae &c. These are his verie woordes, whiche in English are thus muche. The scriptures (as one man, no lesse truely then pleasantlie saied, are like a nose of Waxe, whiche will suffer it self easilie to bee drawen, countredrawen, and framed whiche waie ye liste: and as a certaine rule of leade of the Lesbian buil­ding, the which it is not harde to apply wherto ye will. And againe the same Pighius in an other place saith: We haue shewed before, that the scriptures maie easi­lie be drawen euery waie, and, like a certaine Leaden rule, maie without difficultie be applied to euery wic­ked sentence. Thus farre Pighius, speakyng it twise or thrise, as thei saie, as is meete for so woorthie a mat­ter. Now compare me the estimation and saiyng of the Scripture vsed by this Papiste, with Suenkfeldius his speakyng of it. The scripture [saith Suenkfeldius] is not Gods worde, but dead letters. Pighius saith: the scrip­ture is like a nose of Waxe, like a rule of Leade. Is Swenkfielde, callyng the scriptures dead letters, more wicked, then is Pighius blasphemous, in termyng it a nose of waxe, and withall saiyng, that it is so called, as truelie, as pleasauntlie? Suche a pleasure hath this piuishe Papist in deridyng of Gods woorde. Is it more to be abhorred that Swenkfielde saieth, the scripture is but deade letters, then that Pighius calleth it a rule of Leade? Is there any thyng more dull and deade then is Leade? Is there moreouer any thyng more vncertaine then a long latthe, or rule of Leade, readie to bend and boow euery waie? Swenkfielde saieth, the Scripture is but dead letters: Hosius your great estate for learnyng and vertue, beyng verie busie in the ende of his fourth booke againste Brentius, in comparyng the Gospell Lib. 4. contra [...]r [...]. fol. 178. a. [Page 88] written in paper and ynke, with the churche whiche he calleth the liuelie Gospell (as though the other should bee called the deade Gospell) goeth as nere to Swenk­field, as .iiij. pence doo to a grote. And where he would faine haue vttered his stomacke plainely againste the scripture, whiche hath so shreudlie vexed the Pope and Papistes, and durst not: yet he saieth thus muche. Scri­ptura Fol. eodem. [...] ▪ quomodo profertur à catholicis, est verbum dei: quomodo profertur ab haereticis, est verbum diaboli. The scripture as it is alleged or vttered by the Catho­likes (to witte Papistes) is the woorde of God: but as it is vttered of heretikes (meaning vs) it is the woorde of the Deuill. Thus would Hosius, by a leude imitation of saincte Hieromes woordes vsed in his vehemencie, perswade the people to thinke that the Scripture vtte­red by any, but Papistes onelie, is the woorde of the deuill. But the Scripture of it self is euer Gods woorde in deede, though the abuse thereof bee Deuilishe: and therefore Hosius by hatred of the Scripture, ouerrea­ching hymself, dooeth in deede speake thus of it vntru­lie. And as the Scripture is neither nose of waxe, nor Leaden rule, nor the woorde of the deuill, for that it pleaseth Pighius, or Hosius so to name it: no more are wee heretikes, for that it pleaseth them, and other ad­uersaries maliciouslie so to terme vs: neither bee thei themselues by and by Catholikes, because thei falselie so misname themselues. It is not their onelie saiyng, and proouyng of nothyng, that can make either vs to bee, that we bee not, or them not to bee that, whiche in deede thei are, the verie Synagoge of Satan: whiche is by the light of Goddes woorde made manifeste, and prooued in suche sorte now in our daies, that a good parte of the Christian worlde perswaded thereby, hath forsaken their Satanicall secte of Papistrie, and ioy­gned [Page] themselues to the sincere doctrine of the Gospell: whereof riseth all this their deadlie hatred, and blas­phemous misnamyng of the Scripture. To proceade, Suenkfeldius saith, No more accompt is to be made of the scripture then of any other creatures, emongst the whiche thei are to be rekened. What saith the hoggish Papiste Pighius? The scriptures maie be framed, dra­wen and redrawen, this waie, that waie, euery waie, and applied to euery wicked sense, or sentence: and there­fore, as it seemeth by his iudgemente, the Scriptures are not onely not profitable (as be all Gods creatures, to the whiche Suenkfeldius dooeth compare them) but are hurtfull and deceitfull also, appliable to euery wic­ked sense, like as is a longe lithie Latthe, or rule of Leade, to euery crooked wall: suche a rule as hetherto neuer did yet good Carpenter vse I trowe: and like a nose of ware, suche a creature as was neuer by God made. Wherefore the Papistes are not onely in blas­phemous woordes against the scriptures like to Suenkfeldius, who compareth it to other Goddes creatures: but in scoffing against the woorde of God in suche abo­minable sort, and comparyng it to suche leude instru­mentes and madde members, as are leaden rules, and warē noses, are more horriblie blasphemous, then euer was Suenkfeldius. And whereas Pighius had a natu­rall nose, and other mēbers of his bodie, by the vertue of Gods woorde, and yet in mockage dooeth compare Gods woorde so beneficiall to him, to a nose of waxe, by his swinishe tongue vttring suche blasphemous woor­des, it is greate pitie, that he had not had accordyng to his Pighishe name, an hoggishe groine in steede of his nose, & a swinish body accordingly: that he might alto­gether as he was hoggish in minde, so likewise in out­warde shape of bodie also, haue answered fullie to his [Page 89] swynish name. No lesse contemptuously and contume­liously also speaketh Hosius of the Scriptures, who answearyng Brentius, alleadgyng that kynges also Lib. 2. fol. 66. b. had to doo with gods woorde, and prouyng the same by the example of Dauid, and Salomon kynges of Israel, who by the motion of gods holy spirite, put in writing those godly psalmes, and heauenly instructions, whiche haue béen of all ages and times accompted in the body of the Canonicall scriptures, hath these woordes.

Scripsit Dauid psalmos aliquot, si quid Athanasio credimus, quin (que) tantùm. Qui ni scriberet? ne nunc quidem regi prohibetur aut prin­cipi, quo minus aut rythmos, aut Psalmos, aut carmina scribat, quibus Dei laudes celebret. Scribimus indocti, doctique poëmata Horatius. passim. Whiche in english is thus much to saye: Dauid did write a few Psalmes, if we geue any creadit to A­thanasius, but fiue onely. Why should he not so write? neither is a kyng or prince forbidden at this tyme, but he may write rimes, or Psalmes, or verses to prayse God therby: Learned and vnlearned write poetries e­uery where. Thus farre Hosius: who is not content, to the derogation of the authoritie of kynges and the Scriptures ioinctly, to compare Dauid his psalmes, be­yng of vndoubted authoritie, (as writen by the inspi­ration of the holy ghost, and of the body of the canoni­call scripture, and approued & alleged by our Sauiour Luc. 24. Christe) with rimes onely written by Princes in our daies: but also by a blasphemous derision, to matche them with fabulouse poesies, writen by learned, vn­learned, it maketh no matter with him. I am sure, had any writen or sayd so muche in goddes churche vnder the olde lawe, agaynst the Prophetes, Psalmes, or the lawe (for so Christe doth diuide the holy Scriptures of Luc. 24. f. 44. [Page] the olde Testament) as here hath Hosius written, he should, according to the iudgement of the lawe, haue, like a wicked blasphemar, be stoned to death. But blas­phemie Leuit. 24. against God and his holy scriptures, is with our aduersaries a sporte. Dayly and most horrible blasphe­mies against Christe are suffered in the Iues by the Pope, and they neuerthelesse remaine the Popes friends, specially in néede of money. Onely a woorde against that false vsurpar of Rome, and his leude tra­ditions is auenged with swoorde, fagot, and fire moste cruelly, vpon those that doo professe Christes name, and all the articles of the Christian faith. Whiche, emongst many others, is not the least proofe that y^e Pope is An­tichrist: for that he doeth therby declare, that he prefer­reth him selfe, and his owne traditions, before Christe & his gospell: auenging himself so extremely vpon the cō ­temners of his said traditiōs, and permitting blasphe­mers against God, our sauiour Christ, & the holy scrip­tures to remayne not onely vnpunyshed, but also his deare friendes. But lette vs procéede with M. Dor­mans rehearsall of Suenkfeldius heresies: The ho­ly ghost vseth to come from aboue, vvithout the help of Dorman fol. 10. b. meanes, as hearing, preaching, or reading the scriptures. VVe must looke to be taught from heauen, not out of bookes, saith Suenkfeldins. Doo not you Papistes say the same? haue not you geuē ouer preaching of gods woord your selues, & barred the people from reading, & hearing of it, by your crueltie, & close keping of it in a language vnknowen to the people, and burnyng the bookes of the scripture transiated for the peoples vnderstanding? Are not you the right heyres of those Phariseis, whom Luc. 11. g. 52 our sauiour speaketh of, that haue taken away this key [Page 90] of knowledge of goddes woorde, and neither will enter in your selfe, nor suffer other that would, to entre? And thus laying aside preaching your selues, and burnyng other that doo preache, and barryng the people of God from reading and hearyng of his woorde, you doe saye euen as did Suenkfeldius, that the holy ghoste vseth to come from aboue into your Popishe churche, without all helpe of meanes, as hearyng, preaching, or readyng of the Scriptures, whiche you will by no meanes suf­fer so to be vsed in the churche, as it may be vnderstan­ded. Are not you those, who, contrarie to goddes com­maundement, that the booke of the lawe should not de­parte Deut. 6. b. 6. &c. out of the handes, and from the eyes of his ser­uauntes, haue either suche bookes as fewe can vnder­stande, either burne such bookes of gods law as all may vnderstand: for that you will not haue them to learne of goddes booke, but onely of suche traditions, as are re­uealed to your churche from heauen, as you say? Thus you sée good readers, I truste, euidently, howe that M. Dorman hath moste vniustly charged vs, and that we are as farre from Suenfeldius vile heresies, as the Pa­pistes in all poinctes by M. Dorman rehearsed, agree and ioyne moste iustly with theim: as I haue declared by the very woordes of Pighius, D. Hardinges chiefe author, and by Hosius, M. Dorman his peereles pearle for learnyng and vertue, as he sayeth. Whiche Hosius gaue occasion to M. Dorman to make mention of Suenfeldius in this place: as partly before, and more plainely nowe hereafter doth appeare.

Novvell.

I trust that who so euer shall reade that conformitie betwene the papistes and Suenkfeldius, and both their heresies before declared, and specially by the woordes of Pighius, and Hosius him selfe, shall vnderstande that Hosius was not without cause charged with some affi­nitie to Suenkfeldius his heresie, and with contempt & blaspemie against God and his holy scripture, where­with Hosius writings doo abounde, and beare witnesse most plenteously thereof: and that therefore it is no shame at all to the author of the apologie, to beare wit­nesse of the truthe: the whiche apologie yet once again M. Dorman with one woorde, after his manner, con­futeth, calling it a fardel of lies. But euery woorde that M. Dorman speaketh, is not gospell. Although he haue here in this his booke packed vs vp suche store of lies, that he might more iustly haue intitled it a Lighter la­den with lyes, than a fardell of lies, yet shall he, and all his fellowes finde it more easie for them, to sende vs o­uer a Hulke or twayne full fraughted with suche lies, as this and other their bookes swarme withall, than to [Page 91] answere that litle apologie to any purpose, terme he it neuer so contemptuously. Concerning Hosius, so great an estate of Christendome, I wist not of it before. Sure I am that in Polonia his countrey he is of the meaner sort of bishoppes there: and what should make him so great an estate besides, I know nothing, but his Car­dinals hatte: which how much so euer M. Dormā este­meth, yet the truth is, that originally a Cardinall is but a person or vicar of one of the parishe churches in Rome, or there about in the countrey. For after that Histor. Flo­ren tinae lib. 1. fol. 40. b. & 45 b. the Popes had iniuriously, and violētly put the people of Rome from the election of the sayde Popes, beyng but byshoppes of Rome (which election of right apper­teined to them ioinctly with the cleargie) and had ge­uen full authoritie to the persons and vicars of the pa­rishes in Rome, that they alone should elect the Pope: Pope Paschall the first of that name, to adourne these Papall electours with some solemne title, named these single soled clerkes, Cardinalles: and Pope Nicolas the second of that name, confirmed the same: as is in y^e Florentine historie declared. But yet hitherto were these Papall electors footemen, for that they were not Lib. [...] ▪ as yet hable to paye for their horse meate in Rome, where prouander is deare: & because they had chaunged their name, and not mended their liuinges, they went appareiled as yet, like other commen curates, no better than our Cardinalles in Paules cathedrall church, yea many of them farre wourse. This vncomlinesse pope Innocentius the fourth of that name wysely conside­ryng, sayth Platina, Statuitvt Cardinales equo in publicum Platina in vita Inno­centij. [...]. vecti, galero rubrovterentur, honestandi ordinis causa. That is to saye: He made a statute or ordre, that the Cardinalles [Page] should ryde on horsebacke when thei came abroade, and should were a redde hatte, for the honestie of the ordre. Loo sir, a merueilous estate in the Christen world that Hosius hath attained too, to ride on horsebacke (whiche by like, he might not doo before, by vertue of his Varmi­ense bishoprike in Polonia) and to weare a redde hatte. I thinke the seruyng men of Englande of late yeres, vsyng scarlet cappes, as broade as hattes, and, when they went abroade any thyng farre, ryding also, haue well left that vsage, though not of riding, yet of wea­ryng redde vpon their heades: els might they haue per­haps runne in daunger of the Popes curse, by such pre­sumption, so to ride, and to weare redde, as doo his Car­dinalles. And lest ye thinke I doo but ieste, Pope Paule the seconde, about an. 100. yeres agoe, as saieth the same Platine, Publico decreto mandauit, proposita poena, ne quispiam bireta coccinea (ita appellant capitis tegmen) praeter Cardinales In vita Pau­li secundi. ferret: quibus etiam primo pontificatus sui anno pannum eiusdem coloris dono d [...]dit, quo equos, vel mulas sternerent, dum equitant. Voluit praeterea in decretum referre, vt galeri Cardinalium ex se­rico coccineo fierent, sed id quo minus &c. That is to saye: Pope Paule the seconde, by publique decrée commaun­ded, and that vpon a payne appoineted, that no man should weare a scarlet birret, cappe, or hatte (so they call the coueryng of the head) sauing onely the Cardi­nals: to whom also, the firste yere of his Papacie, he gaue clothe of the same colour, to couer their horses, or mules withall, whyles they ryde. Yea and further he woulde haue made a decrée, that the hattes of the Car­dinalles should be made of silke s [...]arlet. But that this was not decreed, those letted, which iudgeyng right­ly, sayde, that the pompe of the churche was to be dimi­nished, [Page] not to bee encreased with the hurt of Christian religion. Thus farre Platine. Nowe you sée the pa­rishe priestes of Rome, who from Peters time, vntill Paschalis the first (whiche was about eight hundreth yeres) were not able to paye for their horse bread, mounted nowe vpon Mules, and not only them selues, but their Mules also ouerspredde with scarlet: that they may be worthy chapleines of that purpled strum­pet, that S. Iohn in his reuelation speaketh of, beyng Apoc. 17. clothed in redde scarlet, and dronken with redde wyne, and more dronken with the redde bloude of the sainetes of God. This is that great estate, whiche M. Dorman braggeth that Hosius is come to, of a Bishop in his countrey, become a parysh prieste in Rome. For that is the office of a Cardinall in déede: as to this daye the very titles of their Cardinallike dignities doo testifie. Cardinalis tit. Sanctae Priscae, as was this Pope Pius the Platina in vitis Ponti­ficum, & Onuphri [...]. fourth that nowe is, before his Papacie. And Pope Paulus the thirde, and Pope Paulus the fourthe, were before Cardinales Ostienses, either of Ostia a towne not farre from Rome, or of Ostiensis porta, a gate in Rome, of the parish next to the which gate, they wer by like per­sons. Pope Marcellus. 2. Cardinalis tit. S. Crucis in Hierusalem, which is a parish church in Rome. Pope Iulius. 3. before Cardinalis Praenestînus, of Praeneste a town neare to Rome. Pope Clemens. 7. Cardinalis tit. S. Laurentij in Damaso, a parish church in Rome. Pope Hadrianus. 6. antè Cardi­nalis tit. Pāmachij, a parish churche in Rome. Pope Leo. 10. antè Cardinalis S. Mariae in Dominico, a parish churche in Rome. And our twoo countrey men, Cardinall Poole, & Cardinall Wolsey, the one Cardinalis tit. S. Mariae in Cos­medin, y^e other tit. S. Ceciliae, two parish churches in Rome. [Page] Pope Pius. 3. antè Cardinalis tit. S. Eustachij. Pope Inno­centius. 8. antè Cardinalis tit. S. Lucinae. Pope Xistus. 4. tit. S. Eudoxiae. Pope Paulus. 2. tit. S. Marci, foure parishe chur­ches in Rome, with many suche like, extant in Platinae and Onuphrius: but I thought it sufficient to note the Cardinalities, whiche these last popes possessed before their papacie. Finally, Hosius himselfe is Cardinalis tit. S. Laurentij: of a byshoppe in his countrey, by a notable promotion, become curate of S. Laurence parish. I meruell that M. Dorman doth not bragge of the ease, as well as of the honour that Hosius hath gotten by his Cardinals hatte: that he shall not be compelled in his owne proper person to méete great estates on the way, but by the priuilege, and after the manner and custome of the courte of Rome, may sende his moyle with a lackie to méete them, so that his Cardinals hatte hange vpon the pommell of his sadle for honours sake, by the figure Synecdoche, continens pro contento, a Cardinalles hatte for a Cardinalles head: suche is the guise of the courte of Rome, deridyng princes and great estates, yea and all the worlde too. This ease with this honourable hatte hath Hosius atteined: other greate gaine I thinke he hath none. For the greatest pension that the Popes holinesse geueth yearly to his Cardi­nals, is a 1000. crownes: & that pensiō he geueth to such poore chapleines, as haue not yet two or thrée byshop rikes, or abbacies to finde them Cardinallyke. Neither geueth he it frèely, but they pay swéetly for it to the holy father, who selleth sacra ac prophana omnia: iuxta re­gulam, Omnia venalia Romae: accordynge to the lore of his first predecessour, whose knowen sentence is, Quid vul­tis Iudas Is­charioth. mihi dare? Unlesse Hosius, for his paynes taken in [Page 93] writing for the defence of the Papacie, now in daunger of vtter ruine, be more lubberally dealth with, than o­thers hitherto vsually haue béen. Though I haue been longe about this great estate (good reader) yet I thinke it neither vnpleasant, nor vnprofitable to thee to vn­derstande the origine, progresse, and fine of this greate estate of Cardinalles: who, being originally poore pa­rish priestes, leauinge their cures, and vsurpinge all worldly dignitie, are become méete chapleines to that false vppermoste vsurper, who beinge in déede the bi­shoppe of one onely cite, a litle parcell of the vniuersall worlde, chalengeth the supremacie not onely ouer all the churche of Christe, dispersed throughout the world, Sext. De­cret. lib. 5. tit. 9. ca. 5. in glossa. & lib. 3. tit. 16. cap. vnico, in glossa. but also the dominion ouer all the worlde it selfe, and all the kingdomes therein: and therfore hath he made his pelting parish pries;tes, princes péeres, nay, their superiours, that he myght haue Chapleines méete for so great a Lorde as he is. Nowe concerninge Hosius his great learninge, it is not without cause that M. Dorman dooeth so excéedingly auance it. For as M. Dorman hath borowed this his booke of D. Harding, so hath D. Harding borowed all this his and your trea­tie of the Popes supremacie of Hosius: And Hosius hath borowed it of Pighius Hierarchie, and Pighius hath borowed it of dronken Eckius, the founder of all these mattiers in our dayes. And most true it is, that there is not one reason, nor authoritie almost in all that great volume of Hosius against Brentius, con­teining fiue seuerall bookes, but that he hath had out of Pighius Hierarchie, and Alphonsus de haeresibus, after whiche sorte any meane man may bee counted learned. This I am hable to prooue as true, as I [Page] haue hithertoo, I trust, prooued you M. Dorman a lier in all you haue hitherto written, and doubt nothing so to procéede with you to thende of your leude lies, laden in this your Lighter of false fables. Wherfore Hosius deserueth the name of the Compilator, rather than the author of that great booke, wrytten against Brentius litle booke, intitled Prolegomena, for that he hath stolen all his authorities, and reasons out of the sayde Pi­ghius his Hierachie, and Alphonsus de Haeresibus, as all learned reading the sayde bookes shall most easely and plainly perceiue. Yea and in compilyng them together, it is iudged vpon probable coniectures, by the style and poeticall phrases, and verses vnmeete for Hosius age and vocation, that as he hath borowed the mater of his bookes, so hath he had the helpe of other in pen­ning of the same: and yet may he well call the bookes his owne, as bought with his owne money, and large rewardes bestowed vpon his style wrightes.

Concerninge his great vertue, though I know not his life, yet I iudge it a woorthie mattier for M. Dorman his commendation, and him selfe woorthie of the court of Rome. But I can saye litle herein: onely this can I say, that his neighbours dwelling néerer him, than I Iacob' A [...] ­dreae cōtra Hosiū. fol. 155. & multis locis. dooe, a good sorte of hundreth miles, doo in printed boo­kes obiect to him, that his Cardinalles hatte, I would say, head, will be nowe and then ouerladen with Polo­nishe pottes: I knowe not trulie, or otherwise, but as his neighbours doo say.

Novvell.

I trust that all good Christian readers, for that loue that they beare to God, who is the truthe, will geue no eare to suche false fables, as M. Dorman and other aduersaries of the truthe doo publishe in suche leude liynge bookes as this is: and that vpon respect [...] of the health of their soules, they will flie farre from the blouddie Butcher of Rome: who, vsinge the cloke of Christes name onely, denieth him in déede: and pla­cing in his place his piuishe pardons, and other po­pishe pelfrie, destroyeth as well Christian mens sou­les by his poysoned doctrine, as he dooeth murder their bodies by the most cruell kinde of death, that the Diuell his father and he can deuise. And by the way note, that to speake truely of a foraigne false Polonish Pa­piste, is with M. Dorman accōpted sedition: as though, because he is a Cardinall, he were therefore our laufull magistrate: whiche, wist I, were true, I would geue more reuerence to our Cardinalles in Paules churche, then I hitherto haue done. And sure I am, they deserue for their Cardinalshippe, as muche honour, as dooeth Hosius, yea and more too, were false opiniō banished, & thinges truely, as they are in déede, weighed, and estée­med. For they yet according to their origine, minister the sacraments, & visite the sicke, as is the propre office of Curates to doo: wherunto Christian princes, once at the last I trust awaking, will bring these personate, & visered Romaine parishe priestes, from their vsurped worldly pompe and dominion: and that the said Prin­ces will reduce the Pope himselfe likewyse, from his [Page] phantasied supremacie ouer the vniuersall churche, to his peculiar cure of the churche of Rome. And thus I lette this Hosius, one of the greatest estates, both for learnyng and vertue, that this daye Christendome hath (for so M. Dorman saieth) for this time alone, with his Cardinals scarlet hatte, and his moile trapped according for his estate.

Novvell.

This historie is by many aduersaries alleaged a­gainst vs, as vnlawfully rebellyng against the Pope: specially by Cardinall Poole against kinge Henry the Cardinalis Polus lib. [...]. de eccle. Romanae pri­matu. fol. 19. &. 20. eight. Concernyng the matter it selfe, séeyng Chore, Dathan and Abiron, were so horribly punished for re­bellion against Moses and Aaron, and certein it is, that of these twoo, Aaron was the hyghe prieste, and that yet Moses was his superiour, it foloweth therefore, that Moises, to saye, the prince of the people, is aboue the bishop, or highe priest (whiche you can not abide) or els to auoyde that mattier, you must saye (as you some where dooe) that Moises was priest also: whiche, if it be true, inforceth that there were two highe priestes at once ouer the people of God, and so is your assertion of the supremacie of one onely high priest ouer the whole churche, quite ouerthrowen. For you say, M. Dorman, That you haue perceiued, that God in that people in Dorman, fol. 7. b [...]. their lavve, and priesthood, shadovved out vnto vs, like a cunning vvorkeman, the vvhole forme and proportion of his churche. Wherfore, M. Dorman, I praye you marre not gods proportion, and forme of his churche: but as you will néedes haue an Aaron, or high priest in the saide churche, so let vs also haue a Moises to be his superior in the same. For which way soeuer you turne Exod. 15. a. b. 1. Pe [...]ri [...]. you, sure I am, that by the scriptures, the title of priest­hoode may as well apperteine to a christian Prince, as it did to Moises: so that there is no let, nor lacke ther­in, [Page] but that a christian Prince may as wel be superiour to the highe priest, or bishop, as was Moises to Aaron. To procéede: Chore, Dathan, and Abyron, rebelled a­gainst Moises and Aaron, who were specially by God appointed to be their gouernours, and his ministers: but what apperteineth that to vs, who doo obey our na­tural Prince, appoincted by God to be our gouernour, & all as well ciuil magistrates, as ecclesiastical ministers of god vnder our Prince? And therfore dooe we, as we must néedes, renoūce the authoritie of y^t foraigne vsur­per of Rome, sworne enemy to our prince, and coūtrey: who is not our gouernour, nor the lawfull minister of almighty God, but a foraigne false vsurper, and the Di­uels bailie generall, chalenging suche a superioritie, as none can holde by any tenure, but from the Diuell him selfe. It is you Papistes that are the successours of the rebelles, Chore, Dathan, and Abyron: who leauing the obedience due to your own natural Princes, for the ser­uing of a foraigne false vsurper of Rome, doo rebeli not onely against Moises, that is to saie, your gouernour by God appointed, but against God himselfe also. You re­bell Rom. 13. against God, and his seruaunt Moises alwaies: you set vp and mainteine Idolles, and Idolatrie, contrary to the manifest woorde of God geuen by his minister Moi­ses. You doo charge the Apologie vniustly: For it saieth Exod. 10. truely, that Christe néedeth no suche one onely head o­uer all his churche, as the Pope would séeme to be: nei­ther can there be any suche, but Christe him selfe onely, as hath at large bene before declared. But when M. Dorman so speaketh, as though we would haue no go­uernours at all in Christes churche (for that we refuse that one vsurpar) he dooeth deale deceiptfully with the [Page 96] simple, and impudently with vs. For we acknowledge, that as Moyses and Aaron were gods ministers, by him appointed to gouerne his peculiar people Israel: so hath God likewyse appoincted to euery seuerall countrey Eccle. 17. their Moyses and Aaron, their owne Princes, and pa­stoures or bishops, whiche ought likewyse to be obeied, as Moises and Aarō were to be obeied of the Israelites. And that those who doo disobeye them, doo sinne by re­bellion, as did Chore, Dathan, and Abiron. This ap­peareth to be true by S. Cyprian, who dooeth alleage Lib. 4 epist. 9. & lib. 3. epist. 9. this example of the rebellion of Chore, Dathan, and Abiron, against suche as be stubborne and disobedient to their owne seuerall bishoppes, as was one Pupia­nus to himselfe: and as was the African Deacon a­gainst Rogatian his African byshop. In the whiche epistle also S. Cyprian alleageth manie other places of the scripture (falsely applied nowe adayes to the proufe of the Popes supremacie) for the authoritie of euery bishop in his owne diocesse. But this place of Dou­teronomium is neither by S. Cyprian, nor any other but onely Papistes, alleaged for proufe that the by­shop of Rome is to be obeied by any, sauynge onely Romaines, or Italians his inferiours. Concerninge the reason made by Chore, Dathan, & Abiron, that the people ought not to obey their gouernours, because thei be al holy, & that therfore the magistrates ought not to lifte them selues aboue the Lordes people, it is not our reason, as M. Dormā saith: it is the reason of the popish swarmes of their counterfeite hypocrites, falsely called religious: yea & of the whole popish clergie, who haue procured of their father of Rome, immunities from all obedience to their naturall Princes appointed by God [Page] ouer them, as was Moises ouer the Israelites. It is therfore, Chanon Chore, Dathan Dane Monke, and Abbot Abiron, with their complices of false Friers, and Multitudo fanctorum. other hypocrites, that were so holy shauelinges, that they might not for any crime, were it neuer so hai­nous, bee tried by the lawes of their countrey, nor aunswere before their naturall prince. They cried, as did Chore, Dathan, and Abiron, they were the holy people of the great lorde of Rome, and that no tempo­rall Populꝰ do­mini Papae. lorde might lifte vp him selfe aboue them. And thus they shewed themselues to be the very children of their forefathers Chore, Dathan, & Abirō, as truely, as M. Dorman dooth falsely obiect it to vs. Now whereas M. Dorman alleageth the apologie, as thus reasoning, that the churche hath no neede of any other ruler, be­cause Christ is vvith it: Truthe it is, if M. Dorman dooe meane one onely head of the vniuersall churche. For Christ néedeth no such generall gouernour, seyng he is both present himselfe continually by his spirite, as he promised, & also for that he hath in euery peculiar coun­trey & church, his Moises & Aaron, that is to faie, his se­uerall deputies in his stéede euery where here in earth: for that no one mortall man can possibly suffice to the gouernaunce of the whole worlde or churche, whiche woordes followyng in the Apologie, M. Dorman of Apolo. An­glican b. 1. pag. 2. Sapientiae. 8. a. 1. &c. his accustomed sinceritie omitteth vtterly. For it is the especiall woorke of Gods omnipotent wysedome, as first to haue created the whole worlde, and institu­ted the whole churche, so vniuersally to gouerne the fame, reachynge mightily from ende to ende ouer all, and swéetely disposing or gouerning all thinges: where as séely man ouercharged with the goueruaunce of a [Page 97] little percell, is euer founde guiltie, when it shalbe said vnto hym, Redde rationem villicationis tuae: Rēder an accompt of thy Stewardship. At the las [...]e he concludeth Luke. 16, a. 2. with a terrible denuntiation, as it were thunderyng in a kinderkinne, and lightnyng out of a brighte Basen moste terribly, that we must folowe Chore and his fel­lowes swallowed quicke by hell, as rebellious wretches againste the Popes Monarchie, vnlesse we repent. But wee feare no necessitie of suche horrible damnation, v­pon M. Dormans Muste. For as wee are moste farre from rebellyng againste our naturall soueraigne, and other Goddes ministers appoincted to gouerne vs, and therefore no partakers of Chore, and his fellowes re­bellion, so trust we in God to be moste farre from their moste horrible destruction. And wee geue warnyng to M. Dorman, with his maister doctour Harding, and all suche as thei bee, who for maintenaunce of a forraine Pharao, against their conscience (as is to be feared) doo disobeie their owne naturall prince, and that vpon the pretence of holinesse and spiritualitie, and are therein moste like to Chore, Dathan, and Abyron (rebellyng againste their owne speciall gouernours by God ap­poincted, as thei did) that thei make speede by vnfeined repentaunce to mollifie Gods moste iuste wrathe, that thei folowe not Chore, Dathan, and Abyron, in horri­ble damnation, as thei haue folowed them in damna­ble rebellion.

Nowell.

Concernyng the discussyng of doubtes and contro­uersies by the Scriptures, it hath been before suffici­entlie Fol. 69. &c. intreated of. But M. Dorman abuseth all men to muche: for as wee dooe saie that the Scripture bee­yng the woorde of GOD, is a lanterne to our feete, a Psal. 118. light to our steppes, a touche stone of triall, the loade­starre in the darke nights, the waie to walke in to life euerlasting &c. so dooe we acknowledge, that we muste haue bishoppes, and pastours well learned in the same Scripture, or woorde of God, to expounde the same vn­to vs, to rebuke our vices by the same, to exhorte vs to all vertues by the same, and finally, by the same, as a salue for all sores, to cure all our diseases, as becom­meth suche heauenlie Phisitions, & by the same woords of God, as the foode of our soules, like our Spirituall pastours, to feede vs vnto life euerlastyng. And soe wee refuse no lawfull healpes with the scriptures, for the determining of doubtes and controuersies, and the [Page 98] atteinyng of other benefites (though wee refuse one vnlawfull vsurpar) but dooe agree moste directly with Gods ordinaunce expressed in Deuter. 17. in resortyng to our owne bishoppes, and pastours, as did the Israe­lites to theirs, in all doubtes, or other necessarie cases.

Nowell.

It is true M. Dorman, we haue heard this your one­lie Deuteron. 17. Dorman. f. 4▪ touched folio 7. prosecuted at large, fol. 9. b. & foli. 12. [...]. place of Scripture (whiche yet is moste impertinent to your purpose) before: yea and that foure tymes, in fiue leaues space too: whiche argueth your miserable distres, who in this so necessarie a parte of your treatie of the Popes supremacie, and the foundation of all, ha­uyng but one onelie place of the Scripture, whiche in your opinion made a showe for you (though the same in deede is not onelie impertinente to your cause, but directlie against it also, as hath been before at large de­clared) Fol. 59. &c. are driuen to your arte, by oft repeatyng of that one, to make a showe to the simple readers as of many places. And here bilike M. Dorman remembryng the prouerbe, Crambe bis, (muche more ter, quater & am­pliùs) that to muche of one thyng is nought, speciallie, if it bee vnsauerie, mollifieth the matter by a pretie fi­gure, [Page] saiyng, that he will omitte it, and yet dooeth lar­gelie prosecute the same, and will néedes stil wrest this place to, the proofe of one onelie heade Prieste ouer all churches of all nations, and languages, whereto it ser­ueth no more, then dooeth Butter to stoppe an Ouen. For how can all natiōs resort to one onely man? How can all nations vnderstande one man, had he moe lan­guages then euer had Mithrydates? How can one mā, neuer yet able to suffice to the regiment of one chuche, bee able to sustaine the charge of all Churches? How can he that is not faithfull ouer a little, be founde woor­thie Luke. 19. c. 17. to haue the whole worlde committed vnto hym: seeyng the diligente and faithfull seruaunte was made ruler ouer tenne cities onelie? Salomon indued with 2. Para. 1. b. 10. all wisedome, saied of one nation beeyng vnder hym: Quis potest hunc populum tuum digne, qui tam gran­dis est, iudicare? That is to saie, Who can be able well to iudge & gouerne this thy people, whiche is so great? But who is so bolde as blinde Baiarde the Pope, who thinketh hymself of abilitie to iudge, & gouerne al peo­ple? Showyng hymself moste vnlike vnto vnto Salo­mon, who hauyng but one nation to gouerne, asked wisedome of God, as moste necessarie thereto, rather then riches: The Pope hauyng one Churche of Rome to gouerne, and lackyng wisedome thereto (as by the dissolute disorder, and detestable enormities of that Churche aboue all other, appeareth) would yet haue the regimente of all Churches: not well to gouerne all (whiche is impossible) but to scrape to hymself theri­ches of them all, as the experience of his practise hath well prooued. But as the Pope herein is moste vnlike to wise and humble Salomon, so is he moste like to subtill and proude Satan, ascendyng with him in pre­sumption, and desiryng to bee like in the gouernaunce E [...]ie. 14. c. 13. 14. &c. [Page 99] of the whole Churche, and worlde, with the higheste God, whose onelie and proper office this vniuersall re­gimente of all is, vnpossible to any manne, though the Pope neuer so muche, with his graundfather Sathan, Luke. 4. a. 6. Esa. 14. d. 15. &c dooe claime all to be his owne: and therefore with hym troubleth all countreis, kyngdomes, and nations: but accordyng to his presumption with Sathan, shall his ruine with hym bee. Saincte Cyprian, and after hym Cyprian. lib. 1. epist. 3. Africā. Concil. circa tempus Boni­facii. 1. ca. 251. sainct Augustine, with. 217. Bishoppes moe in the A­fricane councell, seeyng the inconuenience of foraigne farre Iudges, and gouernours, and the commoditie of seuerall iudges and gouernours in seuerall countries, and Cities, decreed, that no manne of their Countrey, should saile ouer the sea, to goe to Rome, or other pla­ces, there to be resolued of their doubtes, but that eue­ry seuerall bishoppe should haue the people of their se­uerall Bishoprikes, or Diocesses, obedient vnto them selues, and all controuersies emongest them arisyng, to be determined at home. And Sainct Cyprian and o­ther aunciente doctours allege this place of Deuteron. constantlie for the seuerall gouernemente of euery bi­shoppe in his owne diocesse: but none of the old doctors euer alleged it for the vniuersall regiment of one ouer all Bishops, and in all diocesses: as hath been at large Fol. 60. in pri­ore editione. before declared. Wherefore the appliyng of this place to that vse and purpose, beyng a newe deuise and inuē ­tion of the Popes proctours in these latter daies, as it lacketh all antiquitie, so is it voide of all authoritie. But seyng M. Dorman hath so oftē alleged this place, for that he had none other, and I in euery place haue saied somewhat to the same: For auoidyng of tedious­nesse, I will omitte to rehearse at large thynges before saied, and will remitte thee (good reader) to the. 59. leaf of this booke before: where this place is bothe al [...]eged [Page] by maister Dorman, and consequentlie answered at full, and as I truste, to the satisfiyng of all reasonable readers. Onelie this will I here againe rehearse (see­yng M. Dorman calleth vs from the Scriptures to the Pope, and would abuse this place thereto) that the Ie­wishe Deut. 17. b. 10. Facies quod cun (que) dixerint & do [...]uerint te iuxta legem eius. high Priest hymself, by the verie woordes of the same place, is bounde to teache, and Iudge accordyng to the woorde of God, and not at his will, and pleasure. Pighius Hie­ [...]arch li. 4. ca. 3. fol. 149. b. Hosius contra Brenti. fol. 59. Pighius I knowe, and Hosius also, dooe here finde faulte with the olde translation, for that it maketh a­gainste their purpose. But all other Papistes will al­lowe none, but the olde translation onelie: whiche M. Stapleton also earnestlie in his late Englished booke, dooeth constant [...]ie affirme anclie to be allowed: which might suffice Pighius & Hosius I trowe. But though nothing can suffice thē, yet to the satisfaction of the good reader, I doo trust, that it cā not be denied, but that the high Prieste (as well as all others) standeth bounde by other places of the Scriptures, to the obedtence and fo­lowyng of Gods lawes, in all his teachynges and iud­gementes: accordyng as is by God commaunded to all menne, without exception, by these woordes. Non de­clinabitis neque ad dexteram, neque ad sinistram, ab ijs Deuter. 4. 2. 2. Deute. 5. d. 32. Deut. 12. d. 32. quae praecepit Dominus Deus vobis. Et non addetis ad verbum quod vobis loquor, non auferetis ab eo. That is to saie, Ye shall not decline from the thyng, whiche the Lorde your God hath commaunded you, neither to the right hande, nor the left. Thou shalt adde nothyng thereto, nor take any thing therefro. I trust (I saie) that Pighius, and Hosius, with M. Dorman, and suche o­thers, will confesse that these sentences, and suche other like, dooe binde as well the high priest, as all other mē, that he maie not dooe what he liste, but accordyng as Gods woordes dooe leade: els if he sitte iudgeyng ac­cordyng [Page 100] to the lawe, & cōmaunde thinges to be dooen a­gainst the lawe (as is vsual to the Pope to doo) I beleue S. Paules curse wil light vpon him: Percutiet te deus Act. 23. a. 3. paries dealbate: God will smite thée thou ouerwhited Act. 4. d. 18. wall: & that we with S. Peter, & S. Ihon maie boldlie say to him, & his: whether it be right in the sight of God to heare you, rather then god, iudge ye. So y^t consequē ­tly, we be at libertie to disobete the cōmaundement of that high priest, that shall geue in cōmaundement any thing contrary to Gods woorde, & commaundement: to the obedience whereof, as well the high prieste, as any other, dooeth slande bounden. Now emongeste other profitable studies of the seriptures, what can bee more profitable, yea necessarie, then by conserryng the textes and places of the scriptures together, therby to gather the true sense of euery place? Which, though it sa mis­liketh M. Dorman, yet hath it beste liked all the olde writers, and doctours of the Churche hetherto. Sainct Augustine emongest others, whom I had rather like, and folowe, then. 500. Hardynges, and Dormans, shewyng his likyng of that cōserryng of places of scri­pture together, hath these wordes: Vbi autem apertius ponuntur, ibi discendum est quomodo in locis intelli­gantur De doctrina Christiana. li. 3. cap. 26. obscuris &c. That is to saie: Where thynges are more plainlie vttered in the scriptures, there muste wee learne how thei are to bee vnderstanded in darke places. For that can not be better vnderstanded, which is saied of God in one place: Take thine armour and shielde, and rise to healpe me: then of that other place, where it is read: Lorde thou hast crouned vs, as it wer with a shielde of thy good will, or fauour. Thus farre saincte Augustine: who in the .xxvij. and .xxviij. chapi­ter of the same booke, prosecuteth that moste prosita­ble way of collation of textes of scripture at large. And [Page] the same sainct Augustine in an other place, hath these Libr. 83. Que­stion. quaest. 53 woordes. Quibusdam scripturarum locis apertius ali­quid exponitur, quod diligens, & pius lector etiam in alijs locis in quibus minus aperitur, intelligat &c. that is to saie: In some places of the Scriptures a thyng is more plainelie expounded, the whiche a diligente and godlie reader maie also vnderstande in other places, in the whiche it is not so plainly opened. For our God, to the healthe of our soules, hath by the holie ghoste so or­deined the diuine bookes, that he would not onelie feede vs with plaine textes of scriputures, but also exer­cise vs with darke places of them. Thus muche in that place Sainct Augustine: who calleth suche as so com­pare the scriptures together, godlie, and diligente rea­ders, whatsoeuer maister Dorman saieth of them, and he saieth that suche dooynges are healthfull to our sou­les, though M. Dorman thinke, or saie otherwise: and therefore by Saincte Augustines iudgemente it folo­weth, that M. Dorman with others, perswaded as he is, are no godlie, nor diligente readers of the Scriptu­res, neither dooe regard the healthe of their soules: and therefore no marueile that thei applie the Scriptures, so frowardlie, and wreste them so violentlie, and false­lie, as thei dooe, whereof this booke is an euident exā ­ple. Saincte Chrysostome also (as before was noted) a­greeyng In. 2. ca. Gene. Homili. 13. Sa­cra scriptura seipsam expo­nit, & audito­rem errare nō sinit. with saincte Augustine, saieth: that the holie scripture expoundeth it self, and suffereth not the hea­rer to erre. Wherefore we can not but with sainct Au­gustine, and saincte Chrysostome, and other aunciente and godlie doctours, and fathers, muche like, and praise this moste profitable and holsome conference of diuers textes of the scriptures. And no doubt but the Iewishe priest, appoincted to resolue other men of their doubtes, Deuter. 17. did hymself vse the saied conferēce of scriptures, as did [Page 101] those moste godlie and learned priestes, saincte Augu­stine, and saincte Chrysostome bothe vse it themselues, and also counsaile other so to dooe: as beeyng the beste waie, to them knowen, whereby to attaine to the true vnderstādyng of the scriptures. But M. Dorman hath a greate desire to bryng vs from the Scriptures, to the iudgemente of his high prieste the Pope, and therefore this conference of the Scriptures together, is so farre out of conceipte with hym, that he vntruely chargeth vs, for that wee like it verie muche, as though wee did therefore mislike all instructids of gods ministers. But though we dooe not receiue the Popes instructions (for that he is neither Gods, nor our ecclesiasticall minister) yet it is well knowen to the worlde, that we seeke in­structions, and explications of doubtes, of Goddes mi­nisters and preachers of his woorde continually, wher­as the Papistes vse it more rarelie: and, vntill of late thei were by vs a little stirred vp, thei vsed it nothyng at all: so that it seemed by their leauyng of preachyng, and kepyng of Gods woorde vnknowen in a straunge language, thei would neither haue the doubtfull que­stions of Gods lawe explicate, by conferryng of textes of the scripture together, nor by the voice of the priest, nor minister neither: but would haue had Gods holie woorde wholie vnknowen to all the worlde, and all menne to liue, not onely without explication of doubt­full places of the scripture, but without knowledge of any place of the scripture at all: and in steede of Gods woorde, to haue pampered vp Gods people with their poisoned pappe of Poperie. But, saieth M. Dorman, God did not commaunde any suche conference of scri­ptures, but onelie to resorte to the high Prieste: yet I trust M. Dormā is not ignorant, what it meaneth that God, and our sauiour Christ dooe so earnestlie exhorte Deuter. 4. Per totum & [Page] all men to the diligent readyng and studie of the scrip­tures, multis locis. Psal. 1. a. 2. 3. & 118. a. 2. & multis locis. Ioan. 5. f. 39. Act. 17. c. 11. and dooe condemne the ignoraunce or wante of knowledge thereof. And where he saieth, God hath not commaunded suche conference of the scriptures (which yet in effecte he hath commaunded) it is happie that he can not shewe where God hath forbidden it, which if he could, he would not haue failed to haue dooen. But se­yng M. Dorman setteth so muche by Gods commaun­dementes, and would so faine haue vs leaue the confe­rence of scriptures, as not commaunded by God (as he thinketh) I would he should aduertise the Papistes his felowes, that thei would once leaue their Idolatrie to Images, with other their superstitions, so ofte, and ex­pressedlie by God forbidden, as to all godlie menne, is well knowen.

Nowell.

First to M. Dormans demaunde (whiche is the pith of all that he saieth in a leafe and more next folowyng) I answere, the Arrians, Anabaptistes, and all hereti­kes, without exception, were vanquished and ouer­throwen by the Scriptures: and that if thei were not vāquished by the scriptures, thei were not vanquished at all. For what though thei saied thei were not van­quished, were thei therefore not vanquished, because thei would not cōfesse it? Did the Iuishe high priestes, Scribes, and Phariseis confesse themselues vanqui­shed by Christe and his Apostles? Were thei therefore not vanquished, for that thei would not graunte it? I would aske againe of M. Dorman, what one heretike of so many can he recken ouerthrowen, but by the scri­ptures? But whereas M. Dorman hath been continu­ally harpyng vpon this stryng, against the scriptures, labouryng to bryng vs from them to the Pope, and his churche, as he still holdeth on so to dooe: leaste I should at euery occasion by him offered, with tediousnesse re­peate the same thynges againe, I remitte the reader to the. 68. leafe of this booke before, where, and in the pro­cesse Folio. 68. b. 69. &. 70. &c. folowyng, it is at large declared, that if we doubt whether we be Christians, or no, we must be resolued by the scriptures: if wee doubte whether we bee in the true faithe, or no, we muste resorte to the Scriptures: if wee doubte, whiche is the true Churche, and whether we bee in the same, or no, we muste bee certified by the scriptures: and that suche as seeke other meanes to bee resolued of these, and suche like doubtes, otherwise thā by the scriptures, shal be deceiued and perishe. Where also is declared that neither the Pope, nor Popishe [Page] Churche can be conuenient and competent iudges in controuersies now risen, for that thei are both parties, and parties accused therein: no more then the Iewishe high priest, with his churche of Scribes and Phariseis were conuenient and competent iudges in the contro­uersies betweene them and Christes Apostles, for that the saied high Prieste, Scribes, and Phariseis were parties, yea and parties accused, and guiltie too, of the death of Christ, about whom was all the controuersie betwene them, and therefore were thei moste vnméete to bee iudges thereof. Touchyng the conference of the scriptures together, I did so late before at large intreate thereof, that I néede not now to repete the same again. And thus muche to M. Dormans question. Now if M. Dorman haue brought in this example of the Arrians to bryng vs in suspition with the simple people as fa­uouryng the Arrians, all learned and godlie can cléer [...] vs, who dooe knowe how muche wee dooe abhorre the Arrians heresies, and how earnestlie in our sermons & writynges wee dooe oppugne them: yea, Hosius your Hosius contra Brentiū, lib. 1. foli. 24. & lib. 5. fol. 249. chief champion shall answere for vs, who dooeth muche praise our writynges and dooynges too, againste the Arrians.

Nowell.

This is M. Dormans vsage, when he can saie no­thyng of the presente case, to intermingle foraine mat­ters, thereby to auert the readers minde from his prin­cipall cause remainyng vnprooued still. But how soe­uer Caluin and Luther agree in the exposition of these fewe woordes, Hoc est corpus meum, This is my bo­die: thei agree bothe in this, that the Papistes expound them falsely. For, to vse the places by M. Dorman no­ted out of Hosius, he, nor all Papistes with hym, shall neuer be able to showe cause, why these woordes, Ego sum vitis vera, I am the true vine, dooe not prooue as well a transubstantiation, as, Hoc est corpus meum, This is my bodie. Is not this as plainlie spoken, and as piththilie, I am a true or a verie vine, as, This is my bodie? Naie, if Christe had saied likewise, this is my true and verie bodie, as he saied, I am a true or verie [Page] dine: what a rule had we then had? Christe saieth, Ego sum panis: I am breade: and yet no transubstantiation of his bodie into breade. Why should these woordes, Hoc est corpus meum, This is my bodie, more tran­substantiate bread into his bodie? This is fondlie alle­ged, saieth M. Dorman. If wee saie likewise, that all that he hath here said of the controuersie of the Sacra­mente, out of place, leauyng his purposed matter vn­proued, is verie fonde: what hath he then wonne? that I maie vse his owne phrase.

Nowell.

First to M. Dormans false sclaunder we answere, we bee no heretikes: no Arrians: no Anabaptistes: we teache of Christes diuinitie, and of Baptisme, and all other thynges, accordyng to Gods woorde. Where he saieth, the Catholikes doo represse and ouerthrowe the brutishe opinions of the Anabaptistes, we aunswere: that it is moste certaine, & well knowen to the worlde, that our menne haue saied, and written more againste them, then euer did the Papistes, Wherefore wee bee therein, as in all other thynges in deede, the Catholi­kes, and not thei.

Nowell.

What other necessitie, I praie you, put the man to this sorowe he speaketh of, or compelled hym to suche mention, but onelie the defecte of proofes, for his pur­posed matter of the necessitie of one heade ouer all the churche: whiche lacke he is driuen to supplie with such digressions of the Swenkfeldians, Arrians, and Ana­baptistes, altogether impertinente to his purpose, and with declaimyng against the scriptures and woorde of God. Whiche distresse also droue him destitute of mat­ter, so often to repeate that one séelie similitude and e­uell likelihood betwene the Iuishe high Priest, and the Pope. And yet M. Dorman thus digressyng and swar­uyng hymself, is not ashamed to speake to the Bishop of Sarum, after this sorte: I moste hartelie praie you, Dorman, Fol. 110. a. keepe you without straiyng from the matter, or alle­gyng of prooues impertinente, as close as you can &c. This is M. Dormans requeste, whereof hymself hath geuen an example, as you here maie see. Now if al he­retikes and heresies were, as M. Dorman wisheth, bu­ried in hell, then should the Pope with all his Papistes be buried together with them, and we might liue still, and with quietnesse praise Gods holie name, & preache his blessed woorde, whiche maister Dorman dooeth set so light by. To the reste we saie, that as for resoluyng of doubtes wee dooe with saincte Augustine, as is be­fore rehersed, thinke the conference of scriptures to bée moste necessarie: so dooe we not refuse any other helpe of learned bishops, as our guides and directours by the same Scriptures, to all truthe. But suche a one onelie supreme heade, or Iudge ouer all the Churche, as M. [Page 105] Dorman would haue to bee consulted of all men of all countries and languages, vpon all doubtes arisyng, neither dooe we acknowlege, neither is it possible any suche to be. And we saie, that suche as haue chalenged or pretended so to be, are moste presumptuous, & moste false vsurpers. Now where M. Dorman would proue the conference of Scriptures a vaine or euill thing, bi­cause the Arrians, and Anabaptistes vsed it: and vs to be heretikes, as thei be, because we vse the same groū ­des, to witte, cōferring of scriptures together: he might aswell reiecte all allegyng of scripture, because the de­uill Math. 4. vsed it: and conclude, that we bee of the deuill, be­cause we vse the same grounde that he dooeth, that is to saie, the allegyng of Scriptures. Yea, and he maie by the same reason finde faulte with Christe our sauiour, and his holie Apostles, who dooe so muche vse the saied allegyng of scriptures. And M. Dorman in so dooyng should bee as reasonable, as he is in callyng vs hereti­kes, and blamyng vs vsyng the conference of scriptu­res, for that heretikes haue vsed the like. And what if Arrians, Anabaptistes, or other heretikes will not bee satisfied with conference of places, and textes of scrip­ture? Is it not well that all true Christians be satisfied thereby? Dooe not thei allege Doctours, and Councel­les for them, aswell as scriptures? As though M. Dor­man could deuise vs a waie, that should satisfie all he­retikes, without all contradiction or exception on their parte: whiche shall neuer in this worlde be brought to passe. For our Sauiour Christe hymself, the soonne of God, neither by the authoritie of his diuine persone, nor by the truthe of his heauenlie doctrine, nor by the confirmation of the same by his wonderfull miracles, neither by his example of moste vertuous life, neither by al these together did satisfie al men: but that many, [Page] yea (those who of reason leaste should) the Math. 9. d. 34. & 11. c. 19. & 12 b. 24. & 27. d. 63. Ioan. 7. b. 12. & 9. f. 34. & 18. d. 29. Priestes, Scribes, and Phariseis made exception to his persone, and life, and were not satisfied by his doctrine. It M. Dorman therefore dooe mislike the Scriptures, or the conference of textes, for that all men will not be there­by satisfied, sure I am, that he shall neuer bee satisfied in this worlde, as one that might by that reason, mis­like also of our sauiour Christ hymself, as no-sufficient iudge. And thinketh he that Popes of Rome, menne of suche life, suche partialitie, suche ignorance, suche vn­truthe, suche falsehoode, suche briberie, Simoniakes, poisone [...], murtherers, shall satisfie all menne, in all their iudgementes, of all causes, and controuersies, yea in their own verie causes, wherein thei be parties, and that without all exception? The deuill thei shall, and that maie I saie truely. Wherefore I dooe cōclude, though our sauiour Christ were to the high Priestes, Scribes, Phariseis, and other wicked, a stone to stūble at, and a rocke of ruine, & his Gospell either an offence, Esa [...]. 8. c. 14. Rom. 9. g. 32. 1. Pet. 2. b. 7. 8. [...]. Cor. 1. d. 23. or a mockage (so farre of was it that he did satisfie thē): yet is he and his holie woord (whiche is the vertue & the wisedome of God) the true iudge in all controuersies & doubtes of religion, whatsoeuer the high prieste, or his adherentes the Scribes, and Phariseis dooe faie to the contrary: or be M. Dorman neuer so angrie therewith.

Nowell.

O pitifull harted manne, but yet farre better Ora­tour, then tender harted, who, when he drawyng to­wardes an ende of this his first parte, that is to witte, That the vvhole churche must needes haue one onelie heade: and thinkyng, that he ought to haue some mat­ter of weighte to mooue affections vpon, and findyng none in his purposed matter, bringeth in the rehearsall of the Arrians, and Anabaptistes heresies (whiche it is knowen to the worlde that we dooe moste abhorre) and vpon them, as it were vpon our heresies, dooeth this Rhetorician russhe into these vehemente affections, whiche he mooueth here, but as I thinke, stirreth no wise manne, excepte it be to laugh at his foolishenesse. Where he speaketh of desperate heretikes, sainct Cy­prian Cyprianus l [...]. [...] epist. 3. Pa [...]cis desperatis & perditis, mi­nor esse vide­tur authoritas episcoporum in Africa con­stit [...]torū. &c. so calleth all suche as thinke one Bishoppe infe­riour to an other (as dooeth maister Dorman, and suche other Papistes) as hath been before declared. Maister Dorman adourneth the Popes chaire, or see of Rome, with many glorious titles, but nameth it not as yet, [Page] neither a greate while after, partly for that a periphra­sis, or circumscription was here more meete, for am­plifications sake: and partelie, for that when he had re­iected the scriptures, he thought it not good by and by to saie, that all heretikes (whiche by no meanes can be vanquished by the scriptures) muste bee vanquished by the see of Rome, or Peters chaire, or Popes theron sit­tyng: but to auoide all shewe of absurditie he compas­seth the matter, and at the laste stealeth vnto the see of Rome, vnder S. Hieromes name. That he exhorteth you to sticke to those by whom all heretikes haue been and these shalbe, to their vtter confusion vanquished, (meaning the Popes of Rome, as is afterward euidēt) I aunswere, If force, fire, and fagoties faile them not, (for other meanes to vanquishe haue not the Popes, nor knowe thei any) thei will no doubte, vse their cru­ell furie againste vs, as thei haue dooen: (and yet haue thei, as I thinke, neither gotten any greate gaine, nor made any greate conqueste) but if Gods woorde maie bee heard, I doubte not but the Popes chaire of pesti­lence shalbe shortly ouerthrowen, and he with all Pa­pistes vanquished, to their vtter confusion. Where he calleth the Popes chaire (for it he meaneth, as after he dooeth declare) the foundation whereon our elders & forefathers sta [...]ed them selues many hundreth yeres, in the confession of one faithe and truthe &c. the con­trarie is moste true: that the Pope hath (as muche as in him hath lien) subuerted the faithe, and truth of Christ, and destroyed Christian menne, and Christendome moste horribly, sith his false forged supremacie in these our latter daies hath gotten creadite. Our faithe and doctrine haue as many yeres on their backes, as haue the scriptures whereon thei are grounded, as hath the Primitiue Churche, and olde aunciente Doctours, [Page 107] wherewith in all necessarie p [...]inctes of religion thei a­grée throughly. It is the Pope, and his supremacie, and other Poperie, that is builded vpon a late and sandie foundation, and therefore shortlie to bée subuerted, and [...]ooted vp. Concernyng diuersities of faithes, disagrée­ynges, and Schismes, whiche M. Dorman so often re­peateth, he dooeth nothyng els, but caste their owne dounge at our heades, laiyng the peculiar and proper faultes of the Papistes to our charges, accordyng as I haue at large before declared, and as I truste sullie sa­tisfied Fol. 55. &c. the discreate reader therein. That whiche mai­ster Dorman speaketh of franlike heades, hath allusion to his maisters case, when he forsooke the truthe, and re­uolted to Poperie▪ The worlde knoweth wee bee not subtile, but are sore encombred with the craftie gene­ratiō of Papistes. The woorde of God is the true light, wherein wee endeuoure our selues to our power to walke. Your vnwritten verities are more meeter for blinde Battes to flitter in. Wee haue our heade and Iudge in heauen, one Christe onelie, and in earth one prince, and other ministers, bothe ecclesiasticall and ci­uill, to gouerne and Iudge vs accordyng to his holie woorde. To iuggle, and to coniure too, bée your owne Popishe properties: we haue nothing to doo with thē. And thus I haue answered M. Dormans asseueratiōs in this place, by shorte poinctes, which maie suffice, se­yng he onely saith his pleasure, & proueth nothing at al.

Nowell.

The Pope and Papistes haue thriuen so well vpon their striuyng againste the truthe of Goddes woorde, that I trust all the worlde shortly will be at a poinct to leaue them. Saincte Hierome saieth no where that he would not compare the scriptures together for the dis­cussyng of doubtes (as M. Dorman would beare vs in hande) and S. Augustine saieth, he would dooe it, and exhorteth other to dooe the same. S. Hieromes woordes to Damasus Bishop of Rome make nothyng againste vs, nor with M. Dorman. For what meruaile is it, if Erasmus. Hieronymus in Italiae regi­one natus: Ro­mae baptizatꝰ: Romae educa­tus: presbyter Romanus. that sainct Hierome, borne in a coaste of Italie, Christe­ned at Rome, brought vp at Rome, and made priest at Rome, would in the faith of the blessed Trinitie, rather ioigne himself in communion with Damasus Bishop of Rome, a learned and godlie man, then with Vitalis, and Meletius (whom M. Dorman calleth Miletus) and Paulinus, who were Antiochian bishops, and therefore straungers to him, and also not cleare from the Arrian heresie? What argument can M. Dorman frame here­of? [Page 108] Hierome a Prieste of Rome &c. ioigned hymself in communion to his owne bishoppe Damasus, Ergo we Englishemen musie ioigne our selues likewise to the bishoppe of Rome that now is, beyng bothe a forainer and an enemie. Againe, Hierome ioigned in commu­nion with Damasus a godlie bishoppe of Rome, Ergo we must submit our selues to a false vsurper, and ene­mie of God, and all godlinesse. Naie, it foloweth rather thus: As saincte Hierome refused to ioigne hymself to Vitalis bishoppe of Antiochia, and an Arrian, bothe be­cause he was a straunger, and also an heretike, and ioi­gned hymself to Damasus his owne Bishoppe, and a godlie Bishop: so ought wée to refuse the Pope, beyng bothe a foraine vsurper, and a false heretike, & to ioigne againste hym, with our owne godlie bishops at home. But (will M. Dorman saie) saincte Hierome addeth a cause (whiche is the pith of the matter) saiyng thus: Super illam petram, &c. I knowe that vpon that rocke [Pe­ters chaire] the Churche is builded: whiche is the cause why S. Hierome ioigned with Damasus, will he saie. But he maie be ashamed, had he any shame at al, thus shamefully by a false parenthesis to intermingle these woordes [Peters chaire] in this sentence of S. Hierome, and so to falsifie it, as though S. Hierome had saied, or ment in this place, that the Popes chaire is the rocke, whereon the Churche is builded. And now maie ye see to what ende all M. Dormans long former drifte com­meth, to witte, to bryng vs from the scriptures to Pe­ters chaire, that is, the Popes consistorie, there to bee iudged, whiche now at the laste, after so long suspensiō and delaie, vnder S. Hieromes name, but moste falsly, he hath vttered. For the more plain declaration wher­of, I will report here sainct Hieromes woordes a little more largely, then M. Dorman hath dooen: whiche are [Page] these, Facessat inuidia, Romani culminis recedat ambi­tio, cū successore piscatoris & discipulo crucis loquor. Ego nullum primum, nisi Christum sequens, Beatitu­dinis tuae, id est, Cathedrae Petri communione conso­cior: super illam Petram aedificatam Ecclesiam scio. Quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit, pro­phanus est. Si quis in Arca Nohae non fuerit, peribit regnante diluuio. That is to saie, Let enuie auoide, let the ambition of the height of Rome departe, I speake to the successour of the fisher, and a disciple of the crosse. I folowyng no chief or head, but Christ, am ioigned in communion to your holines, to saie, Peters chaire: v­pon that rocke, I knowe the Churche to bee builded: whosoeuer eateth the Lambe without this house, he is prophane or vnholie. If one be not in the arke of Nohe, he shall perishe when the floud is aloft. Thus farre S. Hierome. Now if a manne would aske of M. Dorman why he left out those twoo lines, wherein S. Hierome admonisheth Damasus, as the successour of the poore fisher Peter, to laie aside all ambitiō, whiche the great­nesse of the citie of Rome might mooue hym too, and withall affirmeth that he will folowe no chief head but Christe (whiche woordes are ioigned, and by a partici­ple dependyng to that, whiche M. Dorman alleged) whatsoeuer he shall answere thereto, I knowe the true answere: M. Dorman did of falsehood, and corruption of the meanyng of sainct Hierome, thus detrunke and mangle his sentence: for he did sée that S. Hierome ad­monishing Damasus of humilitie, and withall profes­syng hymself to folowe no chief or head but Christ, not exceptyng Damasus case, but rather affirmyng hym not to be Primum, the chief, maketh clearely with vs, who in this controuersie of the Popes vsurped supre­macie saie the same: We folow no head but Christ: we [Page 109] ioigne in communion with none, but suche as folowe hym &c. Furthermore he did see that the woordes of S. Hierome folowyng (vpō this rocke I know the church to bee builded) might and ought to bee referred vnto Christe, mentioned by S. Hierome so nere before, and by Peter cōfessed to be that rocke, wheron the churche is builded: and therefore M. Dorman left out of saincte Hieromes sentence the mētion of Christ, that he might most falsly and blasphemously referre the rocke to Pe­ters chaire, as though Peters rotten chaire, or ruinous Rome were the rocke, whereon the churche of our sa­uior Christ is builded. And to make the purposed wic­kednesse of these aduersaries of the verie rocke Christe and his truthe (who care not what thei allege for the maintenaunce of their desperate cause of the Popes su­premacie, though thēselues dooe knowe it serueth no­thing for their purpose at all) more manifeste to all the worlde, I lette the reader vnderstande, that Erasmus in his scholies or annotations vpon this epistle (whiche M. Dorman were he not asleape muste needes see) did warne him that he should not after this sorte so falsifie S. Hierome in this place. For though he cōfesse that S. Hierome might seeme by this place to thinke, that all churches ought to be vnder the Romaine see, or at the leaste not straungers from it, yet when he noteth vpon these woordes: I knowe the churche is builded vpō that rocke, he saieth. Super illam Petrā &c. Non super Ro­mam, vt arbitror: nam fieri potest vt Roma quo (que) de­generet: sed super eam fidem quam Petrus professus est, & quam hactenus Romana seruauit ecclesia, qua non a­lia minus laborauit haeresibus. That is to saie, Vpon this rocke, not vpon Rome I trow: for it maie come to passe, that Rome also goe out of kinde: but vpon the faith, whiche Peter professed, and the whiche hither to [Page] the Romain churche hath kept, then the whiche church no other hath been lesse infected with heresies. Thus farre Erasmus, cleane contrary to M. Dorman and all Papistes, who would haue the Romaine see, to bee the rocke wheron Christes churche is builded, and that the said see can not possibly erre. Yea and further the same Erasmus in the beginnyng of his argument vpon his treatie againste the Luciferians, whiche is nexte to his Tom. 2. contra Luciferianos. twoo epistles to Damasus, hath these woordes. Nulla haeresis grauius afflixit totius orbis ecclesias, quàm Arrianorum: adeò vt Romanum quoque pontificem, & ipsos inuoluerit imperatores. That is to say: No he­resie hath more greuouslie afflicted the Churches of all the worlde, then the Arrians: in so muche that it hath wrapped in the Bishop of Rome, and the Emperours themselues. Thus farre Erasmus. It pleaseth M. Dor­man sometyme to allege Erasmus against vs, whose authoritie if it bee good, doune goeth the Pope, and all Poperie: for if the bishoppes of Rome haue been infec­ted with heresie, their Chaire is not that vnmoueable rocke, as M. Dorman would haue it. Now if M. Dor­man did not see these notes of Erasmus vpon the place by hym alleged out of S. Hierome, I praise his dili­gence, he maie of Dorman bee called Dormitantius, as sainct Hierome (whom he falsely allegeth) called Vigi­lantius, and more iustlie bothe by nature and sounde of name maie M. Dormā be so called, then euer was Vi­gilantius by sainct Hierome. But if M. Dorman did see Erasmus note, and dissembled it, as he did see these S. Hieromes woordes (I folowyng no heade but Christe) nexte and moste necessarilie ioigned to the sentence by hym alleged, and yet of purpose cutte them of by the necke, then is M. Dormans candor, and sinceritie, v­suall to hym throughout all his booke, moste woorthie [Page 110] of plentifull Popishe praise. But if Erasmus iudge­mente, and authoritie be nothyng woorthe, but onelie when he seemeth to speake againste vs, then I will yet in Christes quarell, that he is the Rocke, & not Peters rotten chaire, bring foorth one witnesse, not onely grea­ter then Erasmus, but also equall with S. Hierome, and aboue all Papistes in creadite and authoritie. S. Augustine in his. 13. Sermon vpon the Gospell of Ma­thewe, Tom. 10. col. 58. b. hath these woordes. Quia tu dixisti mihi [inquit Christus Petro] Tu es Christus filius Dei viui, & ego tibi, tu es Petrus (Simon quippe antè vocabatur) hoc autem nomen, vt Petrus appellaretur, ei à domino im­positum est, & hoc, vt ea figura significaret Ecclesiam. Quia enim Christus Petra: Petrus populus christianus. Petra enim principale nomen est, ideo Petrus à Petra, non Petra à Petro: quomodo non à christiano Christꝰ, sed à Christo christianus vocatur. Tu es ergoūquit Pe­trus, & super hanc Petram quam confessus es, super hāc Petram quā cognouisti dicens: tu es Chrstus filius dei viui, aedificabo ecclesiam meam, id est, super meipsum filium dei viui aedificabo ecclesiam meam. Super me ae­dificabo te, non me super te. Nā volentes homines ędi­ficari super homines, dicebant: ego quidem sum Pauli, ego autem Apollo, ego verò Cephae, ipse est Petrus: Et alij qui nolebant aedificari super Petrum, sed super Pe­tram, ego autem sum Christi. Apostolus autem Paulus vbi cognouit se eligi, & Christum cōtemni: diuisus est, inquit, Christus? Nunquid Paulus pro vobis crucifixus est: aut in nomine Pauli baptizati estis? Quomodo nō in Pauli, sic nec in Petri, sed ī nomine Christi: vt Petrus edificaretur super Petrā, & non Petra supra Petrū. &c. That is to saie, Because thou haste saied to me (saieth Christe to Peter) Thou art Christe the sonne of the li­uyng God: I dooe also saie to thee, thou art Peter: (for [Page] before he was called Simon) but this name, that he should be called Peter, was geuen him of the Lorde: to th'ende, that by that figure he might signifie y^e churche. For because Christe is Petra, the Rocke: Petrus is the Christian people. For, Petra is the principal name: and therefore Petrus cometh of Petra, and not Petra of Pe­trus: as Christus, Christe, is not named à Christiano, of a Christian, but Christianus, a Christian, is named of Christus, Christ. Therefore saith Christ, Thou art Pe­ter, and vpon this rocke which thou hast confessed, vpō this rocke whiche thou hast knowen, saiyng, Thou art Christe the sonne of the liuyng God, I will builde my churche: that is, vpon my self, beyng the sonne of the li­uyng God will I builde my churche. I will builde thée vpon me, not me vpon thee. For men y^e would be buil­ded vpō men, did saie: I am of Paule, I of Apollo, and I of Cephas, that is of Peter. And other who would not bee builded vpon Petrum, Peter, but vpon Petram, the rocke, did saie: I am of Christe. And the Apostle Paule whē he did knowe that he was chosen or preferred, and Christ despised by some men, saied: is Christe diuided? Was Paule crucified for you? Or were you Baptized in the name of Paule? And as not in Paules name, no more were ye baptized in the name of Peter, but in the name of Christ, that Peter might be builded vpon the rocke, not the rocke vpon Peter, and so foorthe. Thus farre S. Augustine. And the same interpretation, and Retract. lib. 1. cap. 21. defence, that Christ is the rocke, and not Peter, doeth sainct Augustine againe in his Retractations repete, and maintaine. Wherefore you see, maister Dorman, by saincte Augustine, that Christe is that rocke where­on the Churche is builded, and not Peter, nor Peters chaire, vnlesse you take Peters confession made before be came at Rome, to be his Chaire, and then ye make [Page 111] with S. Augustine and vs, against the Pope: for Rome was not his chaire, before he was bishop there. You see that Peter is here the figure of the whole Churche, in makyng his confessiō, not of the churche of Rome one­ly: you see that as Christe is the rocke, so representeth Peter the christian people, and not the people of Rome onely, muche lesse the Pope onely: you see that Petrus, to saie, the Churche, is builded vpon Petra, Christ: and not Petra, Christe, builded vpon Petrus, Peter: you see that suche as will haue Peter beyng a man, to be their rocke to builde vpon, bee sectaries and heretikes, diui­dyng them selues from Christe, despisyng hym, and choosyng men: and that thei onely be true Christians, whiche wil not builde vpon Peter, nor vpon any other man, but vpon the rocke onely, whiche is Christ hym­self: you see, thei that builde vpon Peter maie saie, I holde of Cephas, whiche is Peter: but thei that builde vpon the rocke maie saie, I holde, or I am of Christe. Wherefore I conclude, that all that builde vpon the Pope, or his chaire, as it were vpon the rocke, as thei bée called, so bee thei in deede Papistes, not Christians: as were all those false orders of hypocrites, who forsa­kyng to builde vpon the rocke Christ, and buildyng v­pon men woorse then Peter, Paule, or Apollo, a thou­sande tymes, forsooke to saie, Ego sum Christi, I am of Christ, I am a Christian: and saied, Ego Franciscanus, ego Dominicanus &c. I am of Francisce, I am of Do­minike, a Franciscane, a Dominicane, a Bernardine, yea an Augustinian, cōtrary to this doctrine of S. Au­gustine: whiche argueth, that those hypocrites were neuer of his institution, as thei falsely feigned thē sel­ues to be. And as S. Augustine witnesseth with Eras­mus, that Christe is Petra, and not Peter, nor Rome Athanafius &. Hiero. de Li­berio Papa. Peters chaire, or see, so hath Erasmus felowe witnes­ses [Page] enough of the auncient doctours of the churche, yea Cōcil. Sextum Const. & Basil. de Honorio, Iohanne. 23. Engenio. 4. Papis. and generall Councelles too, that Popes were he­retikes, and therefore their chaire was not the rocke, but waueryng and vncertaine sande, the buildyng whereon did runne to the ruine of heresie. Nowe you maie see, good readers, the cause why M. Dorman hath thus alleged vnto you sainct Hieromes sentence head­lesse, leauyng out the mention of Christ, whom onely S. Hierome acknowledgeth for the head, that the wor­des of the rocke nexte folowyng, might seme to be spo­ken of Peters rotten chaire, or of ruinous Rome, and not of our Sauiour Iesus Christe, who liueth and rei­gneth for euer. With like fraude did M. Dormā leaue also that, whiche nexte foloweth in S. Hierome, of the house, without the whiche, he that eateth the Pascall lambe, is a prophane, or vnholie man: and the arke of Noe, without the whiche all that bee, perishe by the floudde. For though that place might seeme to make for M. Dormans purpose, concernyng the supremacie of the bishop of Rome (as Erasmus hath noted) yet he knowyng, or some manne warnyng hym, that it is in deede nothyng to his purpose, for that the house, with­out the whiche the Pascall lambe maie not bee eaten, the Arke, without the whiche no man can bée saued frō the floude, by all olde doctours is interpreted to bee the one vniuersall churche of Christ, and by none to be the churche of Rome: and therefore like a wise man, orels a false Fore, hath he let that folowyng alone also, as he cutte of Hieron. Ego nullum primū nisi Christum sequens. Christe the head goyng and ioigned nexte before, and so he hath tolde you a tale bothe without head and taile, thereby to proue the Pope, who is An­tichriste, to be the head of Christes churche.

Nowell.

By your leaue sir you saie vntruelie, that saincte Hierome saieth he knoweth not Vitalis and Meletius, (whom you call Miletus) because thei were aduersa­ries to the seate of Rome, but because thei were aduer­saries to the true doctrine of the moste blessed Trinitie, which Damasus did defende. Saincte Hieromes woor­des are these. Non noui Vitalem, Meletium respuo, ignoro Paulinum. Quicun (que) tecum non colligit, spar­git: hoc est, qui Christi non est, est Antichristi. That is to saie, I knowe not Vitalis, I refuse Meletius, Pauli­nus I knowe not. Whosoeuer dooeth not gather with thee, he scattereth: that is, he that is not of Christe, is of Antichriste. Thus farre sainct Hierome. I praie you maister Dorman, what is in these woordes, but thei maie as well bee spoken to saincte Augustine bishoppe of Hippo in Afrike, or to saincte Ambrose Bishoppe of Milane, or to any other godlie Bishoppe, holdyng the truthe of the blessed Trinitie, againste Vitalis, Mele­tius, and Paulinuus, teachyng erronious doctrine, and vsyng vnfitte termes thereof. Here is neither mention made of this seate or that, or the aduersaries thereto, as causes why sainct Hierome should not knowe these menne: but because thei taught false doctrine, and Da­masus taught true, and therefore gathered not with hym, but scattered, and were not of Christe, but of An­tichriste, Hiero. Trium hypostaseon nouellū nomē à me homine Romano exi­gitur. therefore did saincte Hierome not knowe thē: he beeyng a Romaine, would not acknowledge their errours, cloked vnder a straunge and newe inuented Greeke ternie. But beeyng a Romaine prieste, he well [Page] knewe Damasus the Romaine Bishoppe, and so con­sequentlie his owne bishoppe (as euery man is bounde to knowe his owne godlie Bishop) he knewe his true doctrine, and plaine Latine termes, whereby he vtte­red the plaine truthe plainelie: and therefore so know­yng hym, and his doctrine, he ioigned with hym in communion, not for the seates sake, or for that he was Peters successour therein, but for the truthes sake, whiche he (beeyng Peters successour in truthe of do­ctrine, more then in seate, or Chaire) did professe. A­gaine, the cause why saincte Hierome did not knowe, but reiected, Vitalis, Meletius, and Paulinus, was not for that thei did not submitte them selues to Damasus as to the supreme head of the Churche, or for that cause tooke them to bee enemies, as maister Dorman would haue it seeme (for there was no suche matter then in question) but because thei did not agree with Dama­sus in the truthe, but taughte falselie of the greateste poinctes of our religion, and would haue wrapped the same in obscure and strange termes, therby to deceiue the more, therefore did sainct Hierome not knowe thē. This is the true sense of this place, good readers, as al learned, that wil reade it, shall easily perceiue. Wher­fore maister Dorman thus corruptyng and falsifiyng Saincte Hierome, by takyng awaie from hym, and ad­dyng to hym, what he liste, and drawyng the woordes of sainct Hierome concernyng the doctrine of the moste blessed Trinitie, to the Popes vsurped supremacie, minglyng vs in lente vnguentum, to witte, matters moste impertinente, together, might moste iustlie bee blamed in this place therefore, sauyng that he dooeth so in all places. Finallie I would haue thee (good reader) to note, that as S. Hierome would not knowe Vitalis and Meletius, for that thei were forainers, and not his [Page 113] owne bishops: for that they taught false doctrine, and therefore were not of Christ, but of Antichrist: and for that they were of a straunge language: so haue we the same causes altogether, not to knowe, but to refuse the bishop of Rome, and moe too: as this specially, that he, being a forainer, would vsurpe suche a supreame au­thoritie, or rather cruell tyranny ouer vs, with whom of right he hath nothing to doo.

Novvell.

Be bolde and blushe not, M. Dormā, as boldly to be­lie S. Augustine, as ye streight before haue dealt with S. Hierome. For neither be the woords you doo reherse, S. Augustines: neither are the greatest part of them to be found in the place by you noted: nor y^e woordes which be in that place whiche you haue noted (whose so euer they bee) make ought for your purpose, or against vs. You should haue done more simply, had you alleaged a proufe for your headles trunke, or liue monstre, out of Hierach. lib. 3. cap. 4. fol. 111. a. &. li. 5. cap. 14. fo. 261. c. Hosius lib. 2. fol. 77. Extrauag. commun. lib. 1. tit. de Maiorit. & obedientia ca. Vnam sanctam. Pighius, Hosius, & Pope Boniface his Extrauagants: there shall you in déede finde for your purpose: for much adoo is made there, to saue the Popishe churche, as ha­uing two heades, one in heauen, an other in earth (as they say) from being a liue monstre. Erasmus being no simple iudge of the true and counterfeite writinges of the olde doctours, in his preface before the booke De quae­stionibus veteris & noui testamēti, intitled vntruly to S. Au­gustine, doth by diuersitie of S. Augustines phrase, and [Page] the phrase of that book, probably, and by very barbarous and false Latine vsuall in that booke, vnaccustomed to S. Augustine, certainly, and by sundry doctrines in that booke, most contrary to S. Augustines doctrine in his bookes, vndoubtedly prooue, that it is not S. Augu­stines worke: so that it were to muche impudencie for any man, but onely Hosius and M. Dorman, to alleage it for S. Augustines. The woordes of that authour (who so euer he was) a little more largely rehearsed by Hosius, than by you, M. Dorman, leaste it myght appeare, you had followed him to neere, are these: Eorum qui extra ecclesiam, vel contra ecclesiam sedes suas instituerunt, Ca­thedram pestilentiae dicimus. Qui enim inconcessa praesumit &c. We saye that the chaire of them whiche haue made them sees without, or against the churche, is the chaire of Pestilence. He that presumeth vpon vnlawfull thinges, is guiltie: howe muche more if he also cor­rupte the tradition of him, whose seate he vsurpeth?

For they trouble the order begunne of Peter the Apo­stle, and kept to this tyme by the continuance of Bi­shoppes succeedyng, chalenginge to themselues ordre without origine, that is to saye, professinge a bodye without an head. Wherefore it is agreable, their seate also to appeere to be the chayre of Pestilence. Thus farre that incerteine author, alleged by Hosius, and Lib. 2. cōtra Brentium, fol. 77. nowe by M. Dorman, for S. Augustine. First if you woulde haue this place to make for you against vs, you must proue your selues to be the true churche of Christe, which you shall neuer be hable to dooe, being in deede the Synagoge of Antichriste. Further it ap­peareth by these woordes, vvhose seate he vsurpeth, mea­ninge Peters seate, that this was writen in later [Page 155] times against some Antipope, wrongfully chosen, and intruding himselfe into the Bishoprike of Rome. For it hath been no noueltie for these .iii. or .iiii. hundreth yeres, to haue .ii. or .iii. Popes at once: one chosen at Rome by some Cardinalles, an other at Auinion by o­ther some Cardinalles, the thirde in a thirde place, ap­pointed by the Emperour: and one to keepe his Papal see at Rome, an other at Auinion in Fraunce, the third at Rauenna in Italie, or some where els. And so some writer in fauour of him, by like, that was chosen, and kept residence at Rome, hath written this against some other, that vsurped Peters seate: and so they beynge many at one time, troubled the order of the succession of one, after an other, begunne at Peter, and so con­tinued, till such discorde came in by those, who settinge vp an other chaire, and so not sitting in Peters chaire, sate (as he saieth) in the chaire of pestilence. Howsoeuer it be, the mater can not be applied to vs, who doo not v­surpe Peters chaire. Further, what woord is there here to proue y^e chayre of Rome to be the head of y^e vniuersall church, but rather to be the head of that peculiar church of Rome onely, where Peters successours haue cōtinu­ed? Such kinde of head gouernour, as we doo not denie euery bishop to be in his own diocesse, & so yet subiect to his prince, as y^e bishop of Rome ought to be to y^e Empe­rour his lord. To proceede, we hauing Christ to be our head, our church is no dead trunke, as lacking an head: and hauing him our head onely, & other his ministers, our gouernours vnder him, our churche is no liue mon­ster as hauing many heades: no more than our cōmon wealth hauing God the only head in heauen, our prince his seruant, our head gouernour in earth, is therefore [Page] a liue monstre: or the whole worlde hauing God to his head, is therefore a dead truncke, because it hath no one onely earthly head, nor can haue any such: no more can the vniuersall churche, throughout the whole worlde haue any suche one earthly head. Wherefore, as M. Dormā would gather our church to be a dead truncke, for that we will not graunt one onely head in earth o­uer all the churche, though we graunt Christe to be the onely head therof, as in déede he is: so let him gather in like wise, that the whole world is a dead trūcke, for that it hath no one onely head in earth, though it haue God for his head in heauen: and so he may cōclude, that god, and Christ the authours of life, be no heades, or no such heades as can saue the bodies, whereof they be heades, from being dead trunckes, except the saide bodies haue a false vsurper from Rome, to be their head besides, and to geue them life. And had M. Dorman had so muche leasure from his diuinitie matters, as to haue looked better vpon his notes of the Canon lawe, his peculiar studie, he would haue bene better aduised, than to haue called vs Acephalos, headles, and therfore dead trunckes, Extrauag. Iohan. 22. tit. 7. de Re ligiosis do­mibus, cap. Sancta Ro­mana: Acephali sūt, qui nul li praelato subsunt. who doo obey our owne Prelates, seing Acephali (as is there noted) are those who be subiect to no Prelate. And vpon the other part againe, let M. Dorman conclude as wel against all kingdomes, & cōmon wealthes in Chri­stendome, that they be liue monsters, as hauing many heades (for that they haue God in heauen to their head, and their seuerall Princes in earth to their heades, and gouernours) as he for like cause concludeth, our parti­cular churches to be liue monsters. And I doubt not, but M. Dorman so reasoninge, shall playnely appéere, though not to all men that haue heades, yet to all that [Page 115] haue reason in their heades, to reason more like a trūke than a man: who, though he haue an head vpon his shoulders, yet dooth he by such monstrous, and vnreaso­nable reasoning, showe himselfe to haue but small wit, and lesse learning in his head. Al this adoo hath M. Dor­man made now by the space of more than thrée leaues, to deface the scripture, as no fitte iudge in cōtrouersies: & to perswade vs that the Pope, like an other Pytha­goras, by his onely bare woorde, may and ought to sa­tisfie all mē, heretikes, & others, & that it shalbe sufficiēt for him onely to say, without reason, or scripture why he so sayeth: sauing this reason onely, Papae est pro ratione Clemēt. li. 3. tit. 13. de Censibus & Exact. cap. Cum sit. & lib. 5. de ver borum sig. tit. 10. ca. 1. Si Summꝰ. voluntas: With the Pope will standeth for reason, as is mentioned in the booke of his owne Canon lawe. To this ende all his examples of the Suenkfeldians, Arri­ans, Anabaptistes, matters moste impertinent to his proposed mater, doo tende. This is the conclusion of all, that you shrinking frō the scripture, should not shrinke from the Romaine chaire, but stick to the Popes theron sitting, by vvhom all haeretikes haue been, and these shall be, to their vtter confusion vanquished. For vvhat one haeretike are they hable to recon ouerthrovven by the scripture? VVas Arrius, vvere the Anabaptistes ouer­throvven by the scriptures, nay, that vvere they not. These be M. Dormans owne woordes. But for that I am not so certaine of the certaintie of the Popes iud­gement, Fol. 13. as M. Dorman is, I will be so bolde after his example, to demaunde of him certaine shorte questions touching the Pope as iudge, as he hath made of the scripture as no iudge.

What if there be twoo or three Popes at once, as of­ten hath been: for Dnuphrius reckeneth. 26. schismes in [Page] in the church of Rome, of which some one hath dured a­bout. 40. yeres together (in euery of the whiche schismes were at the leaste twoo Popes at once) when there be I saye two or moe Popes at once, one cursing an o­ther, one breakyng and disanulling the decrees made by an other, one persecuting and killynge an other: is it not to be doubted whiche of them shall be this cer­taine iudge in controuersies? And whether in this case the popishe churche be not in daunger to be a liue mon­ster, as hauing many heades? And on the contrarie part, what if we haue neuer a Pope at all, (for so hath it happened many times, for one or twoo yeres together): as after Pope Gregorie the. 7. the sée of Rome was va­cant one yere: after Coelestine the. 4. one yere and. 8. monethes: After Clement the. 4. twoo yeres. 9. mo­nethes: after Nicolas the. 4. twoo yeres and thrée mo­nethes: After Clement the. 5. twoo yeres, thrée mone­thes: And after Iohn the. 23. it was vacant twoo yeres and fiue monethes) shal al our doubtes lie for that time vndiscussed for lacke of a iudge: and your popish church so long lie as a dead truncke, for lacke of an head? Or els whether shall Peters chayre (though emptie) bee both iudge & head too, good enough for y^e popishe church, and suche a bodie as it is. What if the Pope sitte not at Rome in Italie, which is Peters sée and chayre, but at Auinion in Fraunce, as Popes did for the space of. a Clemente 5. ad Gre­gorium 11. Platina in vitis ipsorū. 70. yeres together? may we not doubte of the cer­taintie of the iudge, not sittyng in the chayre, whereof he hath all his certaintie? or els dooeth he carie his chayre about into all countreis, for y^t the Sext. De­cretal. li. 5 tit. 9. de poenis. ca. Foe­licis fol. 144 col. 3. litera k. whole world is his diocesse, as in his Canon lawe is mentioned? What if the Pope doo erre, as all the Canonistes, Gra­tian, [Page 155] Gerson, Caietane, and many others thinke he may? What if he bee an heretike, (as De Papa Li­berio. Athanasius, S. Hierome, De Anasta­sio. Gratian, In pręfatio­ne in Hier. contra Lu­ciferianos. Erasmus, the generall Coū ­celles, the de Honorio Papa. sixt, the Councell of de Iohanne 23. Constance, and de Eugenio 4 & de multis alij [...] alij. Platina i [...] vita Iohan. 8. Basill testifie that diuers Popes haue been) must he yet néedes be iudge, and his iudgement certaine also? What if his election be vncertaine, or vnlaufull, he en­teryng in by force, ambition, symonie, periurie, (as Platina testifieth many of them haue entered, and in whiche case, not onely Gerson, Gratian, Caietane, and all the Canonistes, but also Pope Nicolas the seconde hymselfe doo affirme, that he is to be deposed, as no law­full Distinct. 69 cap. Si quis. Pope, and not Apostolicus, but Apostaticus, not Apo­stolike, but an Apostata) must he yet be the moste cer­taine and onely iudge? What if we haue a shée Pope, suche as was Pope Iohane, otherwise Iohn the eight, must the iudgementes and woorde of our woman Pope be certayne: and the iudgementes and woorde of God vncertaine? What if the Popes successours dooe disa­null their predecessours Popes decrees, and make de­crées most contrary to them: pull them out of their gra­ues whan they be dead, and disgrade them: is here no So did Pope Steph [...]nus the sixte serue Pope Formosus. Platina in vita For­mosi. incertaintie which Popes, and Papall decrees are to be folowed, whiche to be reiected? Nowe if the matter be the Popes owne case, as is this of his supremacie, he must be both partie and iudge too, whiche his own Ca­non lawe forbiddeth. These doubtes, with a great manie moe (whereof you shall also shortely heare more at large, god wylling) haue I (good M. Dorman) about the Pope, as the onely certaine iudge in all controuer­sies, and I desire to be resolued at your handes, who are so certaine of the certaintie of his Papall iudgements, [Page] that you are author to vs to flie from the scriptures as vncertaine, to them as moste certaine, and infallible. For séeynge the spirite of God doth so oft call the scrip­tures Deut. 4. a, 1. b. 8. & 6. a. 1. d. 20. & 7. b. 11. 12. & infinitis lo­cis. Iudicia, iudgementes, yea, [...] Iudicia iusticiae Dei, the iudgementes of the iustice of God, and viam veritatis, the way of truthe, for the certaintie of their iudgement (as I take it) vntill you haue resolued me of these doubtes, and many other, about the Pope your Romaine iudge, and his consistorie, you shall hardly perswade me, and Psal. 18. c. 19 &. 118. a. 7. 13. 30. & a. 75. &. c. 105. &. d. 150. & 159. & d. 163 &. 174. (as I thinke) many moe, to beleue that the scripture, that is to saye, the woorde of God, should be vncertain: and the Popes, that is to say, mans, and sometime wo­mans woorde, to be most certain. And besides this text Deus verax, omnis autem homo mendax, I thinke you shall not finde many moe for your purpose. Rom. 3. a. 4 god is true: but euery man is a lyar.

Nowell.

Now after his long digressions, and declamations against the Suenkfeldians, against the Arrians, and Anabaptistes, and against the conferēce of scriptures, the manne remembryng hymself, retourneth sodainlie to his matter by a question. And in deede he taketh on with his Herotemata, and other rollyng Rhetoricall figures exceadynglie, now that he draweth towarde a conclusion. Flie those, sticke to those, (saieth M. Dor­man) Shrinke not from those: Tell those you are at a poincte with them: Saie to them, as saincte Hierome saied: Tell them bouldlie, with sainct Augustine: Aske of them with what face, then demaunde of them a­gaine, with what reason: with many other Rhetoricall floures, wherewith he hath geuen a faire floorishe to his finall conclusion: Magno conatu magnas nugas a­gens, as thei saie, makyng greate adooe aboute greate trifles, as I doubte not but all wise menne will iudge. Aske of them (saieth maister Dorman) with what face thei could call Kyng Henrie the eight so many yeres supreame heade of the Churche of Englande? &c. As though the man had so proued the contrarie, that none durste shewe his face to gainesaie hym, whereas all he hath saied is not woorthe one rushe. Aske of them [ꝙ he] with what face. Naie aske of your forsworne fa­thers the old Papistes (for some of them are yet liuyng who gaue hym that title firste] with what face thei did geue it hym, did sweare it to hym, and so long tyme cō ­tinued so callyng hym: if thei did not so thinke, as thei saied, and had sworne, but dissembled deepelie, aske of them with what face thei plaied so false dissemblyng [Page] hypocrites (to saie but soberlie) with so noble a prince, their soueraigne Lorde? Aske of them what maner of subiectes thei were all that while, feignyng in face, in countenaunce, in woorde, and writyng also, yea and takyng a solemne othe to be with their prince therein, and beyng in harte, and déede, on the Pope, his sworne enemie, his side? Whiche passeth hauyng of twoo fa­ces vnder one hoode. But if thei thought in deede, as thei pretended in woordes, then aske of thē with what face thei did chaunge their copie, & forsweare the same, and themselues with all so easilie afterwarde: yea and compelled al other to be forsworne with them for com­panie? If it will please you to resorte to the recordes of the .xxij. and .xxiiij. yeres of king Henry the eight, there shall you finde who thei were, that first offered this ti­tle to the saied kyng: there shall you finde that all Ab­bottes, and other religious, all the Bishops, Deanes, Archedeacons, and Cleargie of bothe the houses of the Conuocation, then liuyng, gaue hym that title. Emō ­gest whom if you finde one protestante, I can for hym finde one score of papistes (to speake with the least) and peraduenture one hundreth too. And those protestan­tes, who gaue hym that title, dealed simplie and plain­ly with their Prince, as becomed true subiectes, as the sequele declared. But there shall you finde an huge number of Papistes, who by their writyng, not onelie saiyng: by their othe, not woorde onely, reiected all that false vsurped supremacie of the Pope (whiche you and thei, as many of them as yet bee liuyng, without all face, or with a shamelesse face, dooe now maintaine) there shall you finde who gaue to Kyng Henrie the su­premacie ouer the cleargie, as well as the laitie, with­in his owne dominions: there shall you finde who thei were that so falsely dissembled, and that so many yeres [Page 118] together with their soueraigne lorde. There shall you finde who thei were that chaunged their copie and tur­ned with the wind, as the wethercocke: there shall you finde, who thei were, that so falsely sware, resware, triesware, forsware themselues, and not content there­with, did so cruelly by all moste terrible tormentes and dreadfull deathes, compell others to periurie with thē. S [...]ing therefore thus standeth the case, with what face soeuer M. Dorman moueth suche demaundes, and ve­xeth vs with suche leude questions, to bee enquired o­therwhere, surelie he dooeth it without all forehead, or shamefastnesse. Now to the matter: by what right wée geue the Quéenes maiestie the title of the supreme go­uernour in Ecclesiasticall matters, as well as tempo­rall, and with what face we so call her, is to be answe­red in the second parte of M. Dormans diuision (where he affirmeth that priestes onely, and not princes ought to haue the gouernemēt of the churche) wherin I doubt nothyng to aduouche, and that shortly, the princes due authoritie in the churche of God within their own do­minions, with better face, authoritie, reason, and con­science, then you haue dooen, or shalbée able to dooe in the mainteinaunce of the Popes foraine false vsurped supremacie. Where M. Dorman requireth a reason, why a particuler church maie haue one head gouernor vnder Christ in earth, and the whole church maie not: why one member maie, and the whole bodie maie not haue any head: I truste the reason is not to seeke in the good readers memorie, seyng it hath been so ofte decla­red before. Yet will I answere M. Dormā his question by an other questiō. Why maie one kingdom haue one head in earth vnder God (as daily experiēce teacheth) & the whole worlde can not haue one onely head in earth vnder God: (that Monarchie being reserued to himself [Page] alone) and why in this case the member maie haue an earthly heade besides God, and the whole bodie maie not? If M. Dorman saie, the questions bee not like, I aske with what face he can so saie: seing that in the be­ginnyng of this his treatie, he brought the example of Folio. 4. b. ciuill gouernemente, in the whiche euery kyngdome hath his Kyng, euery countrey, citie, and companie, haue their seuerall gouernours &c. to prooue that the churche ought likewise to haue one head? But I wotte what maister Dorman and other Papistes would saie to my question, if the tymes serued them. Thei would quickelie aunswere, that the whole worlde hath, and ought to haue one onely head in earth vnder God, and therefore the Churche in like wise oughte to haue one onely head in earth vnder Christe. And if thei were de­maunded, who is, or should be that head? If the tyme, I saie, were for it, thei would plainelie saie, the Pope Sex. Decr. li. 3. tit. 16. cap. pe­riculoso. folio 115. col. 4. li­tera. k. Papa totiꝰ or­bis tenet prin­cipatū. & Sert. Decret. lib. 5. tit. 9. de poe­nis, cap. Foeli­cis. Romanus pō ­tifex totius ocbis est epis. is Lorde and Monarche of the whole worlde, and head of the whole Churche too: For so it is recorded in the booke of his Canon lawe, and that he hath as muche righte to all the Kyngdomes of the worlde, as onelie Monarche, as he hath to the whole Churche dispersed throughout all the worlde, as the onelie head: and in so saiyng, maister Dorman might saie more truely, then he is ware of: For he hath like righte to bothe, that is, none at all to any of bothe. But in all his behauiour, riches, pompe, power, Castelles, souldiours, armour, gunnes, and other artillarie of warre, he shewith hym self more like a worldlie prince, then in any one poincte like a godlie bishop, or a bishop at all, whereof he hath no token, nor signe at all. Wherefore he mighte with better reason, plead for his Monarchie of the worlde, as partlie in possession thereof, then for his bishoprike of the world, beyng cleane out of al possessiō of any bi­shoprike, [Page 117] and without all showe of any bishop. And as when the tyme serued hym, in Kyng Ihons daies, he made as greate title to the croune, as to the Churche of Math. Parifi­ensis in vita Iohān. Regis versus finem. Englande: and named the prince his vassall, aswell as the Priestes his subiectes: so hath this Foxe chaunged his heare, but not his maners. And I praie God that he, beeyng in deede but a false Romishe Foxe, neuer haue oportunitie nor power, so to plaie the Lyon, or Beare rather, againe in our countrey.

Nowell.

Who thei were that flattered kyng Henrie, and a­bused his good nature, I haue touched before: who as thei moste deceipfullie dissembled with hym, so did thei after moste cruelly by all exquisite and painfull tormē ­tes [Page] put to death such as did not slatter their prince, but dealed sincerely with him, and would not therfore geue his enemie, a foraign false vsurper, the title due to their said prince. And in bothe these poinctes, the false flatte­ring of their soueraigne, & abusyng of his good nature, and in murthering moste cruelly their felow subiectes, thei did shewe the naughtinesse of their owne nature. The Queenes maiestie vseth no title, but suche as of good right she maie vse, as shall in place conuenient be d [...]ely proued. The reason of th'Apologie, Christ is the onely head of the vniuersall churche, therefore there is, nor can bee no one earthly head ouer it, is not weake, but as good as is this reason: God is the onely head o­uer the whole worlde, therefore there is, nor can bee no one onely earthly head ouer it: which, as I thinke, is no weake, but a good, and strong reason, and well confir­med by perpetuall experience. And againe this reason, Though Christ be the onely head ouer y^e whole church, yet maie he haue, and hath his ministers vnder hym, head gouernours of seuerall churches: is as good, as is this: Though God be head ouer all the world, yet hath he seuerall kinges, & head gouernours vnder him in e­uery countrey: whiche I thinke, bothe reason & experi­ence will allowe, as bothe reasonable & true. But that one man should haue the gouernaunce of al, will trou­ble M. Dormans braine to make it seeme reasonable (but onely to suche as is himsef) as the Pope attēpting to put it in experience, hath by his ambition, crueltie & auarice, troubled, oppressed and robbed all the worlde: whiche M. Dorman, & suche as he is, doo maintaine, as reasonably and well doen: Non quia honestū, aut pro­babile, sed quia vtile, not for that it is honest, reasonable or probable, but bicause it is profitable to Popishe pre­lates, partakers of suche polling & spoile of the worlde.

Nowell.

Thus I truste (good readers) you see the insuffici­encie, or more truelie, the leudenesse of M. Dormans proufes, of the necessitie of one onelie heade ouer Chri­stes whole churche here in earth: you sée where he saith, that he hath sufficientlie proued it to be Christes plea­sure, that there should be such an one head, that he hath not, nor could not (for if he could, he would) allege out of the newe testamente (where Christes will and plea­sure is written, and declared moste largelie and ma­nifestlie) as muche as one woorde sounding to that pur­pose: so farre of is it, that it is, as he saieth, sufficientlie proued. You see that Schismes and controuersies by Supra. so. 33. b. &. 49. b. &c. saincte Cyprians iudgemente, and Suprà, folio 48. &. 50. saincte Augusti­nes also, with. 217. Bishoppes moe assembled in the African Councell with hym, and by good reason, and experience also, maie bee beste quieted and decided in the countries where thei arise, by the magistrates and Bishops of the same countreis. You see that it becom­meth man, vnable well to gouerne a verie little thing, Suprà, folio. 96. &. 97. to humble hymself, and to yelde vp the honour & glorie of gouernyng the whole worlde and Churche to God, and to our sauiour Iesus Christe, who alone are able to suffice to suche a charge. For experiēce teacheth, that those menne are the woorste of all gouernours, whiche [Page] desire to haue most. Also you sée, that in this treatie hi­therto, as M. Dorman hath not one woorde out of the newe Testamente, so hath he alleged but onelie twoo textes out of the olde Testamente, one out of Deute­ronomium, cap. 17. whiche is, as a speciall place often D. foli. 4. 7. 9. &. 12. D. fol. 11. alleged, and repeated: an other out of Numeri. 16. whiche bothe make directlie againste hym: the one pro­uyng that euery nation, countrey, diocesse, or churche ought to haue their seuerall head Bishoppe, as had the nation of the Iewes: and you haue seene that saincte Cyprian so taketh it: The other shewyng that Christi­an Suprà, fol. 60. &. 61. Suprà, fol. 95. &c. princes are superiours to Bishoppes or high Prie­stes (as was Moses to Aaron) or els if Moses were, as thei saie, a prieste also, that there were twoo high prie­stes in the Iewishe churche at once, and so consequent­ly ought to bée in our churches: whereby M. Dormans assertion of one head ouer the whole churche is quite o­uerthrowen. And withal you see how the Papistes thē selues, disobedient to their owne soueraigne appoinc­ted Suprà, folio. 95. &c. by God to bee their gouernour, are the successours of Chore, Dathan, and Abyron, rebellyng againste Moses and Aaron their gouernours by God appoinc­ted. Wherefore you maie well vnderstande, that were it either profitable or necessarie, were it Goddes, and Christes pleasure (as maister Dorman saieth it is) to haue suche an one head in earth ouer his churche, God would haue certified vs of a thyng so profitable and necessarie for vs, and so pleasaunt to hym, in his scrip­tures (where he hath declared his pleasure) more plain­lie and expresselie, then by twoo olde shadowes of the Iewishe Churche: whiche also bee suche, that thei dooe teache vs cleane contrarie to that, whiche M. Dorman saith is so necessarie for vs, and Christes pleasure also. You se how blindly he goeth about to proue that there [Page 121] ought to be one onely head ouer all the churche, brin­geth in for proufe therof the regiment of seuerall coun­treis, kingdomes, cities, &c. by seuerall princes, seueral magistrates and heades, whiche maketh moste directly with vs, that seueral churches should in like wise haue their seueral heades. And yet he thus dealing auanteth himselfe, askinge, who is so blinde that he can not sée, that he reasoneth effectuously? Like blinde bayard lai­yng D fol. 4. &. suprà, fo. 31 b. &c. himselfe in the mire, and there walowing, neieth yet for wantōnesse, as though he were galoping in the gréene, and flinging in the plaine. You see how often S. Cyprian is by him alleaged for the Pope of Rome his D. fo. 1. 3. & 5. & suprà. fol. 1. 2. 20. &. 35. &c. supremacie, in those places where he speaketh of Roga­tian, and of himselfe, beyng both bishops of other coun­treis and places, & of the equalitie of al bishops, whiche is directly against the supremacie of one ouer all. You sée in likewise how he alleageth S. Basil, bewailing the D. fo. 1. & 2. & suprà, fo. 3. &. 13. state of the bishops of the Gréeke and east churche, and the decay of their authoritie, and of their sées, as though he had spoken of the Pope of Rome, and his estimation nowe decayed, and his see so sore ruined: and howe he hath either very ignorantly, or moste malitiously by false translation corrupted S. Basil. You sée how vn­truly he would make Nouatus his othe exacted for the D. fo. 2. & suprà fo. 7. &c. maintenaunce of his heresie, to séeme the same that is our othe of obedience to our prince, and renouncing of the Popes foraine vsurped tyrannie: And howe he D. fol. 3 & suprà, fo. 25 would make Vrsitius and Valens, to séeme to acknowledge the Popes supremacie: onely for that, they, after long dissention reconciled them selues to Iulius bishop of Rome: as they did in likewise to Athanasius bishop of Alexandria in Egypt, who by the like reason, should be [Page] the head of the whole churche, as well as Iulius. Dor. fo. 5. b & fol. 14. a. & suprà fo. 41. 42. &c. &. 43. b. &c 107. &c. Hieron. cō ­tra Lucife­rianos. Suprà, fol. 41. &c. Hieron. ad Euagrium. Suprà, fol. 43. &. 51.

You sée howe he hath alleaged S. Hierome speaking of the authoritie that euery bishop hath ouer the prie­stes and clergie of his owne diocesse, as though he had spoken of the supremacie of the bishop of Rome ouer all byshops, and the whole thurche throughout the world. Yea and thus hath he not been ashamed to alleage out of suche treaties of S. Hierome, as either haue not as muche as one woorde spoken, nor meant of the bishop of Rome (though the saide treaties be very longe) ei­ther if any mention be made of him, other Bishoppes are expressely made equall in authoritie with hym, and therefore his supremacie ouer other Bishoppes cleane ouerthrowen.

You sée Pope Dor. fol. 5. b. &. 6. a. & Suprà, fol. 46. &. 47. Leo his witnesse in his owne cause can not helpe hym, specially the witnesse being corrupted, and the copies of his testimonie not onely diuers, but cleane contrarie one to an other: whiche taketh awaye all creadite from them all. And were they, as they are surmised, Pope Leo his woordes, yet they are, as you haue séene, Suprà, fol. 49. 50. 51. 52 by S. Cyprian, and S. Hicrome euen in the same places by M. Dorman alleaged, clearely and f [...]lly confuted.

You sée howe shamefully he alleageth Dor. fol. 7. a. & Suprà, fol. 62. Nazianzene his sayinges of one God, as though they had beene spoken of one Pope, of whome Nazianzene neuer dreamed. You see the woordes of an vncertaine and vnwoorthie authour boldely without blushyng alleaged for S. Au­gustines woordes, whiche woordes yet, were they S. Augustines, make nothing against vs.

And vniuersally, you sée his Suprà, fo. 3 a. &. 9. b. & 19. b, &. 62▪ &. 107. &. 111 & multis l [...]cis. falshoode in translating, or fraude in corruptinge, manglinge, or addynge to [Page 122] such authors, as he doth alleage. Neither is his deceite and guile comparable to his impudencie and vnshame­fastnesse, beinge not abashed to alleage those authours for him, who aboue all others moste make agaynste him. As namely S. Cyprian, and S. Hierome, beynge Suprà, fol. 49. 50. 51. &c. both most plaine and earnest for the equalitie of all by­shops, and so directly against the supremacie of one o­uer all. And thus you sée good Readers, that such an one head of the whole churche in earth to be, neither appeareth to be Gods, and our sauiour Christes will or pleasure, by any thinge hitherto by M. Dorman al­leaged out of the scriptures: neither to be the wil of any godly auncient doctour, by any thing hitherto brought by M. Dorman out of their writinges: neither appée­reth it by any good or probable reason by him made, to be profitable, muche lesse necessarie to Christes church, that any such head should be. Nay the cleane contrary, to witte, that it is not Gods, nor our sauiour Christes pleasure, that it was not the will of the godly auncient doctours, that it is neither necessarie nor profitable to Christes churche, to haue any suche one head in earth, appéereth euidently by the Scriptures, doctours, and reasons, yea and by the same scriptures, doctours & rea­sons which are by M. Dormā for his purpose alleaged. And these, good reader, be those most plaine and euident Thra [...]o: Mu nus nostrū ornato ver­bis, quod poteris. &c. reasons, these be those vrgent causes, whiche M. Dor­man Dor. fo. 4. [...] promysed in the beginninge of this treatie, he woulde alleage for the necessitie of one head ouer the whole churche. Neyther séemeth it that M. Dormā him selfe was ignorant of this infirmitie & weakenes of his sclender proufes: and therfore hath he (to call away the [Page] readers mynde from this consideration (intermingled many matters impertinent, as Dor. fol. 2. &. 3. suprà. fo. 7. 13. &c. complaintes, and la­mentations for the great persecutions that they, inno­cent lābes, God wot, doo suffer: as trifling tales of Dor. fol. 8. & 9. suprà fo. 77. &c. sur­mised felons: as the defence of Cardinal Dor. fol. 10. 11. Supra, fol. 82. 90. &c. Hosius, one of the greatest estates for learning and vertue (as saith M Dorman) that this day Christendome hath: as long treaties of the D. fol 10. Suprà. 82. 83. &c. Suenkfeldianss, Dor. fol. 12. Suprà. 101. 102. &c. Arrians, Dor. fol. 13. Suprà. 103. Anaba­ptistes: as Dor. fol. 8. 10. 12. 13. suprà fol. [...]. &c. declamations against the scripture, and conference of tertes of the scripture together, whiche he is very oft in hande with, declaringe a speciall offence and stomake against the same. Al which matters, most impertinent to his matter of one head (borowed of his Maister D. Harding, Pighius, Hosius, with others as is in their places noted) he hath amplified at large, and gaylie garnished with the ornamentes of his raylinge rethorike. Whiche stuffe were it altogether had to the dunge hyll, as it ought, al his booke almost were cleane swept out of the doores, & litle or nothing should be left therof, and yet nothing taken away from it, that did belong of right vnto it. Séeyng therefore this first, and most principall poinct, of one head of the churche, the very foundation of al is not proued by M. Dorman, or so leudly proued, that it faileth, and falleth of it selfe, all the Popes supremacie commeth downe vpon their heades. For if they can not proue (as they neuer shalbe hable) that there ought to be one chiefe head of Christes whole church here in earth, thei can not possibly proue, that the Pope should be that one head. Wherefore I doo aduise M. Dorman, and all the packe of Papistes to re­coyle from this their Thesis of one head of the churche, to the Hypothesis of the Pope head of the churche: and to [Page 123] proue first that the Pope of Rome ought of right to be the onely chiefe head, and then after to induce thereof, that there must of necessitie be one chiefe head. For if they take not this waye, I dooe geue them plaine war­ning, they shall neuer thriue.

And further séeing this part of M. Dormans booke, both for that it is the first, and the chiefe parte also, re­quireth good, and substanciall proufes, not onely for it selfe sake, but also that the readers vpon the good li­kynge hereof, might haue the better hope and expecta­tion of all the rest of his booke (according as M. Dor­man hath, no doubt, out of the preceptes of Rethorike obserued) and is yet not withstanding thus sclenderly, vntruely, falsely, fondlye, and dreamingly handled by M. Dorman, it geueth the Readers to vnderstande, what they shall fynde in the residue of his booke: in the whiche, as it were in the rerewarde, he hath placed bag and baggage, with suche pages, drudges, and slaues to attende vpon the same, as are more ready to runne a­waye, than to abide any brunte of battayle. The which I haue not as yet assayled, for that I dooe sée the By­shop of Sarisburie his bande bent vpon them, whose handes if any of that cowardly companie escape, as ey­ther not espied, or not regarded of him, I dooe promise thée (good reader) that I, God willinge, will shortely haue them in chase, vntill I haue lefte of all M. Dor­mans bragging, but most cowardly armie of leude Po­pishe reasons, and allegations, not as muche as one souldiour vntaken, or put to shamefull flight.

Novvell.

M. Dorman by like hath readde, or heard of Aristo­tle, that he geueth counsaile, that if one chaunce to fall Aristot. in Topicis. into a matter very barren to reason vppon, he shoulde by some sleight, scape out to some other more plentifull matter. And therefore finding his matter of the necessi­tie of one head of the churche (whiche yet is most neces­sarie, though it be impossible, for the Papistes to proue, or els to lose all) so bare & barren of all proufes, as well out of the scriptures, as doctours, and good reasons, he maketh a scape into a larger campe, and taketh in hande to proue that no lay lay man, vvoman, nor childe, can be It is M. Dormans [...]erme. capable of this office (that he speaketh of) to witte, to be the only supreme head ouer Christs vniuersal church: and that will he proue you both roundly, & plentifully, by makyng declaration that princes, be they men, vve­men, or children, may not minister the Sacramentes, as Dor. fol. 18. [...]. &c. priestes may: may not preach, as priestes may: may not excommunicate, and absolue, binde, and loose, as priests may: can not haue so great knovvledge in the scriptures, as priestes may. For in prouing of these thinges, which no man doth denie, & which being graunted dooe make nothing to his purpose, or against vs, he is as plentiful, as he was before spare & barren in prouing y^e necessitie of one head of y^e church in earth, which we doo all denie, and whiche not proued, the Papistes haue lost all. And as he had very much adoo to patche vp a fewe leaues by alleaging of two poore places out of the scriptures, and thrée or foure trifling testimonies of the olde doctoures [Page 124] (which I so terme, for that they make nothinge to his purpose, but cleane against him) & with impertinēt pel­frie to supply y^e rest: so in y^e second part, to witte, that no prince, mā, vvomā, nor child, can be supreme head of Christs church in earth, for that they cā not minister the Sacramēts, may not preache, can not binde, & loose, &c. he doothe laye on lode out of the scriptures, Doctors, reasons, and plaieth▪ Rex, reueling, and ruffling roially: so that he hath much enlarged his booke with this part. For this accessarie, and suborned treatie, and counter­feite controuersie, without any aduersarie for the most part of it (as it were a sixt finger vpon one hande, lon­ger and bigger then all his felowes) is alone larger, thā Digitus agnatus. are bothe his firste and thirde moste necessary partes (or rather the whole summe) of all Poperie, that is to saye: that Christes churche here in earth must of neces­sitie haue one chiefe head: And, that the bishop of Rome is that heade of Christes churche: In whiche twoo partes so necessarie, that without them all partes of Poperie must of necessitie playnely perishe, the man is contente to bee sobre, and of a competente length, more for lacke of store or stuffe, than for want of wil, you may be sure. But when he commeth to his Schio­machia, and skirmishing with his owne shadowe, Lord howe he playeth the man in that vnblouddy battayle, and triumpheth not before the victorie, as they saye, but of a conquest made, without duste raysinge, or bloude sheadinge, without enemie slayne, hurte, or put to flighte, yea no enemie at all séen, hearde of, or knowen. For M. Dorman can not be ignorant, that wée in all our Sermons and writinges of suche mat­tiers, dooe make a moste cleare and euident difference [Page] between the functions and offices of princes, ciuill ma­gistrates, and Priestes Ecclesiasticall ministers: And neither did we euer teache that Princes ought, neither did they euer desire, to execute the offices Ecclesiasti­call of ministring the Sacramentes, preachinge, ex­communicatinge, absoluinge, and suche like. Wherfore you doo lewdly, and impudently abuse your self M. Dor­man, and al others too, so largely to confute that which no man holdeth: and so busily to proue that, which no man denieth. For whan all this is graunted you, what haue you obteined: or what haue we lost? Is it not well and plainely declared by the examples of kyng Dauid, Salomon, Iosaphat, Ezechias, and Iesias, that princes haue authoritie in gouerning of the Cleargie, & churche matters, though they may not execute all ecclesiasticall functions and offices? What though our most gracious soueraigne Ladie, beynge a woman, haue not so great skill in feates of warre, as haue hir capitaines: haue not so good knowledge in the lawes of hir realme, as hir Iustices, and other learmed men in the lawes haue: (though she haue in all good learning, and in the scrip­tures too more knowledge, then had any of your Popes this seuen hundreth yeres I beleue, and therefore no lette in that poin [...]te, but she may be head of the whole churche as well, and rather then the Pope) what if shée sit not in publique iudgement, nor determine contro­uersies, as dooe hir Iustices: or be not general of an ar­mie, as are the nobles, hir subiectes? What, I saye, if shée can no [...] execute all ciuill offices in hir owne per­son? Would you therfore M. Dorman, take from hir, hir ciuill principalitie ouer hir subiectes, that she shall not be their Prince, and head vnder God? Surely you [Page 125] may with as good reason dooe it, as you woulde take a­way hir superioritie ouer hir clergie from hir, for that she can not, may not, nor will not execute ecclesiasticall functions. Though the quéenes maiestie haue not that vnderstanding of all the affaires of hir realme, that ex­perience in all thinges, that actiuitie in executing thē, that hath the whole body of hir most honorable Coun­cell, yet doothe the whole body of hir Councell, though most honorable, humblie acknowledge hir to be their head: onely proude Priestes, because some thinges are incident to their office, whiche the Prince may not, nor liste not to dooe, refuse their soueraigne to be their su­preame gouernour. Let the bishoppes be the Queenes Maiesties most godly Councell in matters of religion, (and I pray God they may so be) as is the other moste honorable Councell in ciuill matters: but let that god­ly Councel, as well as that most honorable Councel, be vnder the godly and moste highe honorable Prince, as superiour to them both. To commande thinges as well ecclesiasticall, as ciuill to be done, to sée them done, to commende, and rewarde all well dooers of them, to cor­rect and punishe all euill dooers of them, or negligent in their office, is the part of an head, or supreame gouer­nour: to doo thinges commaunded, is the office of infe­riour membres, and obedient subiectes.

But M. Dorman would proue, that the head is not the head, because it can not, nor liste not dooe all offices of all the principall membres of the bodie: and séeketh for an head emongest the membres, because they can dooe some thinges, that the head can not. For this is in déede the very effecte of that his seconde long treatie next fo­lowyng, a matter moste méete for M. Dormans drea­ming [Page] head: in the which treatie his chiefe paines is t [...] prooue that Priestes, and not Princes, ought by theyr office to preache, to minister the Sacramentes, to excō ­municate, to absolue, to resolue men [...]n doubtes, and scruples of conscience, and suche li [...]e. (whiche no man euer denied) yea and he thinket [...] that in so dooinge he hath spunne a fayre thréede. Thus muche hath M. Dorman, by his transition annexed to thend of this his treatie of one head, occasioned me to admonishe the rea­ders of that matter: whiche as it may suffice for an an­sweare to the whole treatie folowing, with all discreate readers: so shall I yet, for the satisfiyng of the meaner sort, particularly answeare, as muche as shalbe left vn­touched by the bishop of Sarisburie (for the same mat­ters, as being before handled by D. Harding, are incidēt to the bishops answeare of his booke) specially, if there he any thyng sounding against the Princes supreame gouernment ouer persons, and in causes, as well eccle­siasticall as ciuill, or temporall.