A DIALOGVE betwene LVCIAN and DI­OGENES of the life harde and sharpe, and of the lyfe tendre and delicate.

¶Lucian and Diogene [...]

LVCIAN.

VVhat meaneste thou by this? thou haste a berde & a long busshe, and nere a cote / but naked and bare leg­ged / chosynge a wan­drynge beastely lyfe / and besydes that agaynst al others custome, thou abusest thyn own bodye, thou wan­drest hyther and thyther / and slepest more ouer vpon the bare yerthe. In so moche that this fowle, torne / coourse, and thredebare clooke ofte tymes reporteth it.

DIOGENES.

I nede none other: for if there be any thyng that may lyghtly be got­ten and trouble leest the owner, that suffiseth me. But tell me for goddes sake / thynkeste thou that there is vice in waste?

LV.

ye very greatte.

DIO.

And in temperaunce vertue?

LV.

What elles?

DIO.

Sins thou [Page] [...] lyue more temperately than the common sorte of men / & them more wastfully: why than dooste thou blame me and not them?

LV.

By god by cause me thynketh thou lyueste not more temperately, but more nedely, ye and that moost ne­dy and wretched. For thou semeste no better thā a begger that beggeth his dayly meate.

DIO.

Wolte thou then (sins we ar gone so ferre) that we see what thyng skarsite is, and what plentie is?

LV.

ye if thou wolt.

DIO.

Than is not that inough for euery man / that satisfieth his nede? or wolt thou say any other thyng?

LV.

Be it so.

DIO.

And skarsite that that wanteth to four­nyshe nede?

LV.

That same.

DIO.

Therfore in my geare there wanteth nothyng. For there is nothynge in them that fornyssheth nat my nede.

LVCI.

Howe prouest thou that?

DIO.

Thou shalte knowe / if thou [Page] consydre to what purpose e [...] those thynges was ordeyned, wher­of we haue nede, as a house, is it not for to couer?

LV.

It is trewe.

DIO.

And a gowne for what pur­pose? is it not also for to couer?

LV.

Of a suertie.

DIO.

And by thy trouthe wherfore nedeth coueryng, is it not that it shuld be the better, that is couered?

LV.

Me thinketh so.

DIO.

Whither then seme vnto the these fete the worse for that they are bare?

LV.

I can not tell.

DIO.

Thou shalt knowe it by this waye / wherto serueth fete?

LV.

For to go.

DIO.

Dost thou thinke than my fete go worse than others feete.

LV.

I thynke not.

DIO.

But whyther they be better or worse / can they not do that that they were ordeyned for?

LV.

I thynke well.

DIO.

Semeth it than my feete be no worse than others?

LV.

It se­meth well.

DIO.

And wat my bo­dye / [Page] [...]y worse than others? if hit were any worse, it shuld be weker / for the vertue of the body is strēgth: is myne than weaker?

LV.

It se­meth not.

DIO.

Than semeth hit that nother my feete nor my bodye nedeth any couerynge. For if they neded / they shuld be the worse. For nede is euermore ylle, and maketh them the worse / with whome hit dwelleth. Nor it semeth that my body is the worse nourysshed, for that it is nourysshed with al maner of meates.

LV.

It is clere.

DIO.

For it shulde nother be nymble nor stronge, if it were ylle nourysshed, for yll nourysshementes weaken the body.

LV.

All this is of suertie.

DIO.

Syns it is so, wherfore doste thou rebuke me, and blamest my lyfe, and callest it wretched?

LV.

By god bycause that syns Nature (whom thou worshippest) and the goddis haue ordined the yerthe in [Page] cōmune, and out of it haue brought many and good thinges / that we shulde haue all thinges plenteously, not onely for nede, but also for de­lyght: yet thou of all these thinges, or at the lest of the moste part, lesist thy parte, and vsest none of them no more than bestes. For thou drinkest water, and so do bestes: thou eatest what so euer thou fyndeste, as do dogges: and thy bedde is no better than a dogges kenell, for strawe suf­fiseth the / as wel as them: and thou wearist a cloke no better than a beg­gers. And if it be so, that it be wi­sely done, to be content with these thinges, truely god hath not done well. Firste in makinge fatte shepe, than vinis to beare swete wyne / and all other stuffe of marueilous diuer­site / both oyle and honye, and other thinges, that we shuld haue all thinges, that we shulde haue all maner of meatis, that we shuld haue swete [Page] drinkes, money, and softe beddes, and also faire howses, and all other thinges ordined after a marueilous sorte. For the fruites of craftes be also the gyftes of the goddis. But to lyue wantynge all these goodes, truely were wretchednes, ye if thou sholdest want any of them. As they that are kepte in prison: and moche more wretched / if a man wolde by­reue hym selfe of all good thinges. For that is playne madnes.

DIO.

It is well sayde perauenture. But tell me this, whan a riche man ma­keth a gladsome and a gentyle longe feaste, and receyueth many guestes of all sortes / some weake, somme stronge, and setteth afore them ma­ny thinges, and of all sortes, if any man wolde snatche all thinge / and deuoure all thinge / not onely that that is nexte hym, but that also that is ferder from hym / ordined for sike men / and he hym selfe hole / sens he [Page 5] hath but one bealy / and nedith not many thinges to nourishe hym / and yet tarieth lenger than many other, what maner of man thynkest thou suche a one? is he good?

LV.

I thynke not.

DIO.

Is he tempe­rat?

LV.

Nother.

DI.

But what if another that sittith at the same ta­ble / and regardeth not those many diuerse dishes, chosinge some one of those that is nexte hym, whan it is inough for his nede, eatith that ho­nestly / and not loketh vpon the other thynges / wolt thou not thinke hym more temperate / and better than to­ther?

LV.

I wolde in dede.

DIO.

Doste thou vnderstande me than / or must I tell the?

LV.

What?

DI.

That god is lyke hym, that maketh the goodly feast / as he that hath prepared, many, diuerse, and all maner of thynges / that euerye man shulde haue that that were mete for hym / some thynges for hoole men, other [Page] thinges for sicke men / some thinges for stronge men, and other for weke men / not that euery man shulde vse euery thing / but that eche man shuld vse those thinges that are mete for his nature, and those / wherof he shall haue nede. But you resemble hym, that by gredines and vntem­perance snatcheth all thinge / as men that wolde vse all thynges / gotten euery where, not content with that onely, that is afore you / wenynge that your owne countreye and see can not suffyse you, but bryngynge delyghtes from the ferdest ende of the worlde, preferringe strange thin­ges afore thinges of your owne coū ­trey / wastefull thinges afore measu­rable thynges, and those thinges that are harde to be gotten / afore those that are easy. And at a worde ye chuse rather cares and troubles / than to lyue without trouble. But this diuerse, precious, and fortunate [Page 6] prouisyons, wherin ye tryumphe, bringe vnto you great wretchednes and mischieffe. Considre if thou lyst that same golde and siluer, considre these costly houses, consydre this goodly wrought apparell, and all kinde of suche thynges, with what busines they are bought, with howe many labours, peryls, ye and with blode and slaughter, and with how many dethis of man kinde / not onely that in saylinge many do perishe for these thinges, and in sekynge them suffre greuous thinges / but also that they brede fyghtynges / and that for them one lith in awaite to an other, frendes to frendes, children to their fathers, and wyues to theyr hus­bandes. So I thinke Eriphyles for golde did betray her husbonde. And al these thingꝭ is thus, though that dyuers apparell maketh one no whytte warmer, and those gylted buyldinges couers not the better, [Page] nor those cuppes of siluer. Nor yet those beddes of golde, and of yuery, gyueth not a sweter slepe / ye thou shalt se oft tymes, in an yuery bed & vnder a costly coueringe, those bles­sed folke can take no slepe at all. More ouer those diuerse dreslinges of meatis / nourysshe not the more / but weken the body rather, and en­gendreth sickenessis. What nedeth it to shew what troubles men both do and suffer / for their lust? and yet it is easy to remedy this desire, out­cept one wold gyue hym selfe to fa­uour delites. But yet this madnes and naughtines sufficeth not to mē / but now they misvse the vse of thinges / vsinge euery thinge to that purpose that it was leste ordined for / as though a man wolde vse a bed for a carte.

LVC.

Who dothe so?

DIO.

you I say / that vse men lyke beastes / for ye make them cary your litters like cartes in their neckes: [Page 7] and you sytte alofte delicate, and driue men lyke assis, commandinge them hider and thider / and ye that moste do these thinges, seme moste happy. And they also that vse fishes not onely for meatis / but also deuise certayne dyinges out of them / those I say that dye purple, do not they vse these thinges ayenst nature, that are ordined of god?

LV.

Why no for god, for the purpure fishe serueth also to dye / and not onely to eate.

DIO.

But yet it was not ordeined for that. For so a man may writh a gredierne to make it serue in stede of a potte / but it was not therfore or­deyned: but howe may any manne ouersee all theyr vnhappynes / that is so great? And yet thou accusest me for that I woll be no partiner of it. yet I lyue as doth that same so­bre man, that is to saye, eatinge on­ly that that is sette afore me, and v­synge moste necessary thinges: and [Page] not gapinge after those dyuers thin­ges of all sortes. And so where I nede lyttell and vse not many thynges, the semeth I ledde a bestly lyfe. And by this reason there is doute, that the goddis be not worse than beastes, as they that nede no­thynge. But to thende thar thou mayst better vnderstande / what maner of thinge, eche of these is, that is to say to nede few thinges / or many thinges / considre fyrst that children nede more than yongemen / and wo­men more than men, than sicke men more than hole, and alwayes in conclusyon lower thinges nede more thā their betters. Therfore the god­dis nede nothinge / and they that ar next vnto the goddis, nede leste. Hercules that was the chiefist of al men / a godly manne, and of righte, thought to be a god, thinkest thou / that he was than wretched, whan he went vp and downe naked, wea­rynge [Page 8] onely a skynne, nothing coue­tinge of our thinges? But truely he was not wretched / for he put wret­chednes from other: nor yet was he poore, for he ruled bothe vppon see and lande. For where so euer he did assault, he ouercame on euery syde, nor in his tyme he chaunced vppon none / that might other matche him, or ouercome hym, whyle he lyued. And thynkest thou that he wanted apparell or showes? and that ther­fore he wandredde abroode in the worlde? Truely it can not be sayd: but he was constaunt and stronge, and wolde lyue temperately, and not gyue hym to delytes.

¶What was Theseus his compa­nion? Was he not kynge of all the Atheniens? and as they saye, sonne of Neptunus, and noblist of his tyme? ye he also wolde go barefote and naked, and it pleased hym to norisshe his berde and his busshe / nor [Page] hym onely / but it plesed all thaunci­ent men, and they were better than you, and they wolde not haue suffe­red any suche thinge / no more than a lyon wolde suffer hym selfe to be clypped. For they thought tendre­nesse of flesshe and smothenes becam women / and they as they were mē, so they wolde seme / and thought a berd to be the aparell of a man, as a maane for a horse / and a berde for a lyon / god hath gyuen for a beaute of a certeine goodlynes of apparell, so vnto men he hath gyuen a berde. Therfore them I folowe, those an­cient men I say woll I folowe: and I enuye not the men of this age, in theyr name of meruailous blessed­nes, whiche they haue in meate and apparel, sins they polyshe and smo­then all the partes of theyr bodye / and suffer not so moche as that that shuld be secrete, to grow accordinge to nature. But I wolde wyshe my [Page 9] selfe to haue horse fete, as they saye Chiron had: and that nede no more apparell than lyons, nor more dely­cate meate than dogges. Lette me more ouer be in that case, that euery maner of bare erthe, suffyse me for my bedde / and that I may take the worlde for my house / and that I may chuse suche meates / that maye easely be gotten. But golde and syl­uer let me neuer desyre, nother I nor and of my frendes. For all mischif­fes cometh vnto menne oute of the desyres of them, both tresons, war­res / awaytes / and mourders. All these thinges springe out of the well of desyre of more. But god saue vs from these thinges / & that neuer I desyre more than inough: and whan I haue lesse, that I may suffer with euyn mynde. our thinges be of this sorte / of a suerte these thinges are fer from the comen opinion. And it is not to be meruiled, if we differ from [Page] them in apparell / from whome we differ so ferre in order of lyfe. But I wonder of the, that where thou a lowest vnto a minstrell / his certeyne facion and aparell, and vnto a tabre­tor his, and vnto a player his / vnto a good man thou alowest no proper facion and aparell. And if it be so, that there be any facion or custome of good men / what is more meter than this that I vse / that vnto wast full folke is most shameful? and vnto which they are most ageynst? My custome & fascion thā is, to be swe­tye / and rough / to were an old cloke / to let my here grow / and to go bare­fote. And yours is moste lyke vnto the facion of these bougerons / and a man can not know you from them, nother by your apparell / nor by ten­drenesse, nor in chaunge of shirtes, nor in clokes / nor in prety showes / nor in trymyng of your here, nor in sauour. For ye are perfumed lyke [Page 10] them, euyn you that are so blessed. But what whan a man smell lyke a bougeron? ye and in suffrans of la­labour ye are no better than they: and with delightes ye are ouercom­men as well as they, ye fede as they do / ye slepe and go on the same faci­on / ye you wol not go, but rather be caryed / as though ye were ferdels, some vpon men, some vpon beastes. And me my fete do cary whyther so euer I nede. And I can suffer colde and hete, and that that god sendeth withouten grudge, that is to saye bycause I am a wretche. And you, bycause of this blessednes, are con­tent with no fortune, but ye ar wery of all thinges / and can not suffer that that nowe is, and desyres that that is to come, in winter wishinge for summer, and in heate for colde / and agayne in colde for heate, waiward and plaininge as sicke men / whiche thinge is caused by sickenes in them, [Page] and by condycyons in you. And though it be thus, yet ye thinke it mete / to bringe vs vnto your lyfe / and to corrupt ours, where as oftetymes the thinges that ye do, ar yll counselid, and you your selfe in your owne businessis ar not all of the best prouiders / and do nothinge of them by iudgement and reason / but by cu­stome of desire. Wherfore of trouth ye differ nothinge from them that ar caryed with the streme. For they ar caried whither so euer the floud wolle / and you whither as lustis woll. And it is lyke with you as with hym, that had lepte vppon a wilde horsis backe, the horse ranne carienge the manne awaye: And he might not nowe a lyght / the horse runninge / one met with hym, and as­ked hym whider he wente? He an­swered, whither as he woll / and pointed the horse: so if any man aske you, whither are ye caried / if ye [Page 11] woll say trouthe, ye shall say in ge­nerall, thider as affections ledde me, and particularly some tyme thider as luste leadeth me, somtyme thider as desire of glory, & sometyme thider as desyre of gaingne: somtyme also anger, somtyme fere / somtyme such other like semeth to cary you away. For ye lepe not only vpon an horse, but vppon many / nowe vpon this, nowe vpon tother ye are caryed a­way, and all are wylde. And yet a­fore ye fall ye know not that ye shall falle, but this olde clooke / that ye mocke / and my here / and my facion, is of such power, that it gyueth me a quiete lyfe / that I may do what I woll, and company with whome I woll. For of foolysshe and vnlerned folke none woll come vnto me: for by cause of this fascion. And they that ye are of tēdre lyfe / withdraw them ferre from me. We mete to gyder men of knowlege and tempe­rate [Page] folke / and they that desire ver­tue, they chieffly company with me / and in these mens company I delite. I wayte not at theyr dores / that are but callid men: and crownes of gold and purpull, I take for pride, and mocke those men. But that thou mayst vnderstonde / that this fasci­on is not onely mete for good men, but also for the goddis, and thanne mocke it if thou lyste, considre the y­mages of the goddis / whither they be lyker you than me, and loke not onely, in the chirches of the Grekes / but in those also of other countreys, if the goddis be paynted and made busshed / and berded as I am / or els shauen as you ar. And thou shalte se many of them coteles as I am now. Howe darest thou from hens forthe disprayse this facion, whan it semeth to be mete also for the goddes.

The ende.

This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal. The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission.