THE FIRST CHAPTER. Declaring that vnto Catholikes demaūding euidēce of the Protestant succession and visible exi­stence at all tymes in the world since the Apo­stles, no satisfaction is giuen by recourse to the Waldenses and such as they were.

IT were good in the begining for the greater perspicuitie of my discourse, to define the thing Protestant, whereof I am to speake in this booke: but Martine Lu­ther and Iohn Caluin your Apostles, and au­thors of your sect or religion as you call it, so detested each others doctrine whē they were aliue, that they cannot yet endure one defini­tion being dead. In regard of this I was once about to leaue out the Lutheran partie which [Page 2] in England is of lesse note, and to sute our English with a definition for their turne: but this was lothsome to the Puritan who by noe meanes can abide to be shut vp with the Par­lamentarian within the same termes. It see­med therfore not amisse (neglecting all pri­uate differences) to content my selfe with that wherein they assented, and to make a generall notion of the Protestant in common. This I thought was easie and might serue well inough. But eieing the substance of Protestan­cie neerer to take measure of the thing, wherby my definition might be fit, I found noe con­stant being, but vncertaintie in the essence of it. This substance being as you saie pointes fundamentall: and these, more or lesse as euery Spirit will: which Spirit is diuers not in the multitude onlie, but in the same man many tymes.

The Moone was abroade in the could fro­sty nightes without cloethes, and her mother pittying her spake to Mercurie (as the tale is tould) for a coate: Mercurie taking measure when she was full, a fortnight after or there­abouts brought the garment but found her changed, and the coate a great deale to bigge. Home he went againe to cut it, and returning then it was to little, and with all his skill he could neuer make it fit: the Moone [Page 3] being some tymes thicke, some tymes slender in the wast: sometymes horned, sometymes round. Wheruppō he despaired of the worke and gaue it ouer. A hard taske it were for a painter to represent Proteus in a picture, but it is harder far to make a definition of your Church: her essence or substance doth euer varie, and is sometymes greater, sometymes lesse; neuer constantlie the same. Yet because I am to speake of it, and without some kind of notion this cannot well be, I take here a Protestant for a man of the religion (so you call it) now currant in England: and the Protestant Church, I take, for a companie of such men.

3. Now that you cannot prooue by good euidence, the CONTINVAL SVCCES­SION or existence of this companie, this reli­gion, this Church, at all tymes euer since the Apostles vntill this daie, it is by longe expe­rience verie manifest. Euer since Luther and Caluin did begin to spread their doctrine, it hath ben demaunded: and your men haue endeuoured to make answeare, hauing exami­ned to this end and purpose, all Bookes and monumentes that are extant: and yet, after infinite inquisition, noe such euidence can be found. Sometymes indeed you name some men of diuers Sectes and Religions, in which kind Illyricus hath laboured hard: but when [Page 4] he cometh to the thing expected, that is, to prooue they were of your religion, there he leaueth you; wheras it is this onlie which is expected from a Scholler, for euery prating fellow can affirme what he list. It were not hard for an vnknowne vpstart, to lay claime to a very noble Petegree, and greate Domi­nions, but without euidence he will not be admitted, and beleeued. It is EVIDENCE that wee looke for; show the Proofe of that you say.

4. Being vrged againe and againe with this, you name in fine the poore Beggars of Lions, of Waldo their author, called Waldenses: wherin you doe meerely spend tyme and cozen simple people. You know that your owne men reiected their cōmuniō, and it hath ben tould you oft,Protest. Apol. they agreed not with you: The matters of your differēce haue ben named and are noted in your owne au­thors, and the thing I demanded, was your proofe,See Prot. Apol. trac. 2. c. 2. sec. 3 & R. Chal­ced. de es­sent. prot. relig. lib. 2. cap. 5. your euidence: where is it? where is your proofe that the Waldenses, who liued before Luther, (for of them onelie I inquire) were of the Religion now currāt among you? and, where is the Catalogue of their Conti­nuall Successiō, euer since the Apostl'es time? and, Euidence of their Communion with Nations, and of the publike profession of that Religion, in all the world? These things I did [Page 5] expect: this Catalogue I must see; or, the de­maund of continuall Succession, will rest euer vnsatisfied, as it hath donne hetherto.

5. Those men dissented from you in the point of^a Iustification, Vide R. Chal. de essen. rel. prot. c. 6. which is the ground and foun­dation of Protestācie: ād, held the reall ^b presence, in our sense: wherefore they were not yours. Secondly, they held sundry damnable opi­nions, which you dare not approoue: as, that he which is in mortall sinne, Illyric. in Catal. test. de VVald. ex Syl. & Rain. Itē ­que Anto. & Guid. de Wal. dogm. Aeneas Sylu. Hist. Bohem. Luxemb. in Paup. de Ludg. 1. Tim. 4. 1. Cor. 7. falleth out of all digni­tie therby, whether it be Ecclesiasticall or Ciuile, and therfore is not to be obayed: that lay men and women may eonsecrate and preach: that euerie good layman is a Priest, that the Apostles were lay men: that clergy men should haue no possessions. They condemned Mariage, (a manifest Heresie:) Iudgmēt to blood, ād oathes. Thirdly your owne men refused their communion, as you know by^c Camerarius,^d Morgernstern,^e Caluin,^f Melancthon,^g Schlusselburg, and others; and [Page 6] charge them with maintayning obstinately grosse errours, and Heresie. Fourthly, they had no Hierarchie, hauing amongst them no Bishops,Fox acts. mō p. 628. Sim. Voyō Cata. p. 132 Osiand. Epitom. and their owne te­net, suprà. nor Priests, but al being lay people: and therefore could not be the Church of God. Fiftly, Waldo a Marchant of Lions, and an vnlerned lay man, who liued an. 1170. was the first and chiefe of that Sect: so that, they failed in the point of Antiquitie, and Conti­nuall Succession euer since the Apostles, which is the thing whereunto you were to answere: And, will neuer doe, till you putte downe some in euery age, and bring vnque­stionable Euidence for them, which will ne­uer be.

6. If (notwithstanding the cōtrarie iudgmēt of your men) you will ioyne to their Church, and maintaine the Succession of your Church by them,Heb. 5. v. 4. Rom. 10. v. 15. Confess. Bohem. a. 13. Caluinia­nos VVal­densiū Cō ­fessionem d [...]prauasse ostendit Conrad. Schlussel. Theol. Calu. li. 2. art. 6. who could not ordaine you Priests and Bishops, hauing themselues none; nor teach, being thēselues vnsent: you must prooue cleerele, first that they had lawfull vocation and ordination: Secondly that they held not the forsaid errours and Heresies, or you must admitte that you hold them also: Thirdly that they did agree with you in all other points; particularly descending to each. As in the man­ner of the reall presence; the Bohemian Confes­sion doth say they did not, but that they vnder­stood [Page 7] the words properly as wee doe.Luth. su­pra cit. R. Chalc. sup. cit. Haud scio an vsquam diu publicè suam fidem sint proses­si, &c. prae­terquam in Bohemia, & in qua­dam valle in radici­bus Alpiū. Illyr. de VValdens. suprà. Epiphan. haeres. 61. August. haeresi 40. that they held iustification by faith, as you: Luther saith they knew it not: yet this is the sowle, and foun­dation of Protestancie, in the iudgment, and by the confession of your owne men. And, so you must on to the rest, where you will find many of your owne who will cōtradict you to your face. Fourthly, you must bring proofe that those men were in the world be­fore Waldo: and that of them there was a continuall succession euer since the daies of the Apostles. I speake not of those Heretikes called Apostolici wherof S. Epiphanius and S. Augustine speake, though they cōdemned also mariage, and hauing of possessions, and therefore held in part the forenamed here­sies, that is two of them, but I speake of the VValdenses: I demaund good proofe and euidence that such men were existent in the world euer since Christ ascended. And I will not accompt it satisfaction if you tell me they saie so, for I beleeue neither them nor you, but demaund proofe. Bring foorth your mo­numentes, and read vs the names of their Bishops, or some of them at least: for there were such among them if theires were the Church,Act. 20.2 [...] Ephes. 4.11.13. Eph. 4.12. since Gods Church is gouerned by Bishopes, there were Pastors in it euer, if that were the mysticall body of Christ; for Christ [Page 8] appointed such till all meete. Edantori­gines Eccle­siarū suarū; euoluāt or­dinem Epi­scoporum suorum, ita per Succes­siones ab enitio de­curientem, vt primus ille Episco­pus a [...]q [...]e ex Apostolis vel Aposto­licis viris, qui tamē cū Apostolis per [...]euera­uerint, ha­buerit au­ctorem & antecessorē. Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae. Apostoli­cae sensus suos defe­runt. Tert. Praescript. c. 32. And you must not aske them, for they will shew you none but laie persons. Let vs know what Councel­les they haue kept, and where; what Nations they haue conuerted vnto Christ, and by whom, what Sainctes and Martyrs haue ben among them, what Churches they haue ere­cted, what Heretickes they haue condemned and where and how; and with what Nations and Princes they haue communicated: and bring good Euidence to prooue it. If this be the true Church, conceale her not, God is not ashamed of his Church; if these people be the companie of holie ones, let vs see their actions and good works. If there were a con­tinual succession of such men, let vs see their monuments, otherwise wee haue noe reason to beleeue that there were indeed any such, in the tyme betwixt Waldo and our Sauiours ascension, which are more then a thousand yeares. If you will haue vs beleeue there were such all that tyme, bring your proofe. Lett vs know I saie (and should repeate this que­stion oft, least you wittinglie doe forget it) where they were from tyme to tyme, what they did, who were of their communion, or tooke notice at least of thē as frindes or foes, what writers they had, what Bishops, what Councels, and this from age to age, till [Page 9] you come to the Apostles daies. The questiō is cleere, the matter is of fact, the thing of mo­ment: You haue bene searching these hūdred yeares, all papers, and libraries, and scrowles: where is your answeare, where is your eui­dence?

6. If this were all donne, which will be donne when tyme runnes backward, and when euery thing whatsoeuer any minister for a shift can desire or imagine, may be foūd euery where, there would remaine yet a further taske, and that were to shew, that this religion of the Waldenses,2. Book. 1. Ch. were vniuersall in regard of place or Nations. But I need not vrge further, for you are grauelled in the very first. If you should offer to name Hus or Wickleffe, I would proceed after the same manner with either of them, and de­maund proofe of their continuall succession, euer since our Sauiour Christ did ascend, and of their communion with Nations to verifie the Prophecies of the Old Testa­ment, and our Sauiours intention in the New: and of their agreement with you in all pointes. I would demaund euidence of all this, of VVickleffe, of Hus, or of you for thē: and desire to see the face of that Church, her Actes and Monumentes, her VVriters, her Pastors, &c. And this with great reason before [Page 10] I beleeue it, and embrace the communion of it, and venture my soule in it: because, that which I demaūd is hetherto vnknowne, not to me onlie, but to all the whole world.

THE SECOND CHAPTER. That no satisfaction is giuen by recourse to our Church.

7. THe nakednes of your cause appearing manifestlie thorough the beggarie of the VValdenses, you would hide your sel­ues faine in our Church, and therefore flin­ging of that poore shift as vnsufficient, you saie next that your succession hath ben con­tinued by vs. But you may not rest heere. The thing which wee demaund is a con­tinuall succession of Protestantes, that is, of men professing the religion now currant in England. Bring your euidence that in euery age there were some of these men. VVee are not of your religion, wee haue openlie con­demned it as hereticall in the Councell of Trent: and you doe persecute ours in En­gland, condemning many pointes, of faith which wee beleeue: so that if you take vs to continue you to the primitiue Church and [Page 11] to the Apostles, this continuation is not Pro­testant: wheras a Protestant continuation is the thing wee demaund. Goe not to fast; but consider well what heere wee haue in hand: I demaund a continuall succession of men of your Religion, not of ours: you are to giue accompt of your owne predecessors, not of mine: of Protestants, not of Papists. You must shewe your owne Cards, and not mine, if doe meane to winne the game. Wee doe frequent the Masse, beleeue vnbloodie Sacrifice, adore the sacred Hoste, pray to Saincts, worship Angells, beleeue a Purgatorie, pray for the deade, honoure Images. Wee lay open our consciences to our Priests, and acknowledge in them power to Absolue vs, and a diuine precept, obliging vs to Confesse. Wee be­leeue that our Sauiour doth impart vnto the reconciled, power to redeeme, by good and penall works, the temporall paine due to sinne, and that the Church hath power, by way of Indulgence, to release it: Wee be­leeue Traditions, Merit, Iustification by works, Obseruation of the commande­ments, and works of Supererogation, Vo­wes; and a fuller Canon of the Scripture then you doe. In our Hierarchie wee haue Bishops, Priests, Deacons, Subdeacons, and others: all which in substance you haue not; but an [Page 12] outward appearāce onely. Wee acknowledge in the Pope a superioritie ouer the other Bis­hops in the Church: in Generall approued Councells, an Infallibilitie: and in each Mem­ber of our Communitie, an Obligation of conformitie in iudgment to the iudgment and Decrees of these Councells. In these, and such other things, essentiall to our Reli­gion, wee are distinct from you, and therefore it is childish, to name vs for men of your Re­ligion.

It is true that you pretend to beleeue some things wich wee doe; as the Trinitie, and In­carnation, and some parts of Scripture: Ne­uerthelesse, in other things within the com­passe of diuine faith and religion, wee are di­stinct, as by the premises it doth appeare. All Heretiques that euer were, beleeued some­things with the Church, but that sufficed not to make them of the same Religion with it, or among themselues. Iewes beleeue some­things which Christians doe, so doe the Tur­kes, and the Naturalists who beleeue a God: notwithstanding, Catholiques, Iewes, He­retiques, Turkes and Naturalists, are not ALL of ONE RELIGION. Horses and Asses are liuing Creatures, but not of the same species with a man. Lutherans and Cal­uinistes, are not Catholiques. The Pope is [Page 13] no Protestant, the Bishops of our Church are not of your communion, our Priests are consecrated to say Masse, our People beleeue as their Pastors: All abhorre your Heresie, and detest your Schisme. Your Bookes are against our faith: your lawes against the exer­cise of our Religion. You accuse vs of Idola­trie, Superstition, Errour, Heresie. Name others, name YOVR OWNE: and a CONTINVALL SVCCESSION of them; name not vs.

Your Religion in that it is distinct from ours, is made vp, partly of newe deuised stuffe, partly of old ragges, left vnto you from the torne coates of Iouinian, Donatus, Aerius,Vide Coll. R. Chalc. c. 23. Nouatus, and such other, found in ould nastie monuments. If vppon her now, for pittie, you will pull the Waldesian habitte, spokē of in the former chapter, the beggars coate I mea­ne, represēting, with partie coloured patches, the peeces of her cōstitution; and lace it with the ragges you find in Illyricus, it will be very trimme. But, how soeuer you may finde some ragges in Antiquitie; it is still euident, that after a busie search, made by all your de­uines, into libraries and recordes; you are not able to prudence a continuall succession of that kinde of men wherof you are, or of that whereof VValdo was, from waldo vpwar­des [Page 14] to the Apostles. I doe not saie a Catho­lique or vniuersall succession of them, but a succession onlie, though neuer so small, you haue not in euery age, a Nation, nor one Diocese, which were verie litle, nor so much (such is your beggarie) as one man. Much more vnpossible is it for you to produce a suc­cession Catholique or vniuersall in that sort, that in euerie age and euerie yeere since the Apostles, it hath ben common to many Na­tions: which is the condition of the true Church of God.

9. You answeare againe and learnedlie as you thinke, that in Fundamentall pointes, the Romans were Protestant, and therfore are well alleaged,Are the ne­gatiue pro­positions, in the Bi­ble, Gods words, ād de fide? or w [...]ll you haue them all blotted out. to satisfie the demaund: though they were otherwise in not-Funda­mentall. Or as others cut out the distinction, in Affirmatiues they were yours, in Negatiues they were not. VVhich distinction is laid in the way to catch woodcockes, but hin­dereth not the course of our argument. For the Roman Catholique, holding those pointes which he doth, is noe Protestant, nor of the religion currant now a dayes among you: And the Protestant is no Roman Ca­tholique, his Religion is not that, which is currant in Italie, in Spaine, and other places vnited to the See of Rome: wherfore in assig­ning, [Page 15] Roman Catholiques you do not assigne a Protestant succession, wheras the thing de­maunded is a Protestant succession,If I had ben to dis­pute with the VVal­denses in Bohemia, I would haue exac­ted the li­ke proofe for the Religion currant a­mong them. that is (as I haue tould you many tymes) a companie of men of the religion currant now in England wherof some haue succeded others and this must haue bene euer since the Apostles daies if the successiō be continuall since that tyme. Wee doe not Demaund of you whether wee haue à succession in our Church, that wee demaund of you is a succession of your owne: of Protestantes not of Papistes, of men professing the religion which you doe. Shewe this succession: produce your euiden­ce to prooue that such men haue bene in all ages, and then wee will examine your funda­mentalles, giuing you time till then for to thinke how many and which they be: for as­sure your selues the common people doe per­ceaue your vnsufficiencie in answering to the demaund, which you cannot flie without crossing and contradicting your owne selues. For, I aske you, is a Papist a Protestant in reli­gion? you answeare, no. I demaund againe: giue me the Protestant succession, the Church Protestant of former ages? You answeare, the Papistes succession, was the Protestant succession and the Papisticall Church was the Church Protestant. By which answeare [Page 16] graunting and affirming the Papisticall succes­sion and Church to be the Protestant succes­sion and Church, you doe graunt and affirme a Papist to be a Protestant which before you had denied and still doe. They see also that a Pelagian a Luciferian, an Arian, or any other hereticke may defend himselfe as you doe, for each of them held the true religiō in part, each held some affirmatiues and was negatiue (as you speake) in other thinges: and each pretended that he did not mistake in funda­mentalles.

10. And wheras you say that you erre not in fūdamētalles, I answeare first, that you speake at rādome ād by cōiecture mearlie, for to this daie you know not which all the fundamen­talles are: and therfore cannot be certaine whether you beleeue euerie one of them, or doe not. I answeare secondlie, that the point of iustification is the ground and the soule of your religion and you mistake in that, and contradict the scripture directlie in it and the­refore erre fundamentallie. You teach also that the Catholique Church may erre in mat­ters of diuine faith, which is a grosse funda­mentall errour. You denie the reall presence and holie sacrifice in the Masse, which is like­wise a fundamentall errour. And by these and such like you are diuided from the Catholi­que, [Page 17] and so fundamentallie different and di­uided. Neither is it any matter whether these and the like erroures be expressed in propositions affirmatiue or negatiue,an Athyest by reason of one ne­gation is of No Re­ligion. (as they may be either way) for by negatiue errours, a man may be an Hereticke, Turke, Iew, or Athiest according to the verities which in his errours he doth contradict. To conclude: it is cleare that these are shiftes to delaie tyme and to deceaue fooles: for the thing wee de­maund, is a Catalogue of Protestant men such as in England you are: of men holding those affirmatiues together with those nega­tiues which you do hould: of men consenting with you in your religion and beleefe entirelie,The like argument I would make a­gainst the Waldenses, Hussites, or any other: for a man may beleeue the Trinity or the Creede with others and yet differ in Religiō as we and you do. whether the thinges be called fun­damentall or be not called so, for wee care not how you call thē: of men which without anie tricke, distinction, paring of, or adding to thē, may flatlie be said to be of the religion ow currāt there in England: of such finallie as being looked into thoroughlie and beheld round about, are absolutlie. Protestantes or men of your religion. Produce the Catalogue of these men: let your euidence come to light.

11. Your men in the begining wanting companie, and disliking the religion of the Waldenses, and Hussittes, would faine haue [Page 18] shaked handes with the Grecians, and made an offer: but they were instantlie refused and shaken of,,Censura Orientalis Ecclesiae. as the world doth well know by their Censure in print euerie where. You ha­ue tould mee since, and vnskillfullie, that the Ethiopians are of your religion: being de­maūded proofe, because it is against histories, and against their Liturgies which are extant, you are able to bring none; neither can I imagine to what purpose you should runne thither, vnles it were to get an out side which might keepe colour with the inside of your Church. I remember your doctrine is, that her soule is euer stained with actuall and O­riginall sinne, and that all her actions are fou­led in the same puddle, to which doctrine of your owne, I may adde by experiēce that she hath a foule mouth; if you will needes haue all this, walk in a black out side too, you may goe on with your conceipt, but wrong not other men. The Aethiopians as blacke as they are, doe loath and abhorre the communion of your Church, and are the more vnwilling to heare of it,Luther. Respons. ad Dialog. Syluest. Pri. Calu. in Antidot Conc. Tri. sess. 6. c. 12. because she is not ashamed to professe, that she cānot keepe the cōmaunde­mentes with all the helpe she hath frō God allmightie, and cōsequentlie that she cannot for beare blasphemie, nor errour, nor witch­craft, nor adulterie, nor murder, nor robberie; [Page 19] in fine, that she cānot possiblie obserue that,Minimum legis man­datū onus Aetna gra­uius. Calu. Ibid. which equitie doth require and God com­maund. And for this among other reasons, not Ethiopians onelie, but all the rest of the world loathe her, and wishe she were retired againe into her hole of inuisibilitie.

12. As touching your māner of answearing, I wish you to consider that you doe not satis­fie our demaund, nor euer will, by naming such as agree not with vs in some one point or more,White. Illyricus. vnles you prooue likewise that they doe agree with you, and be of the religiō which in England you professe. For example, if you name a mā which denied the Popes primacie,Ob. The Papists haue not a Succession of such as they are. Answ. l. 2. c. 6. and l. 3. c. 4. as you doe, if this man consent not with you in other thinges, it is childish to thinke you satisfie our demaund by naming him: he may be in other pointes of the same minde with vs, or with Arians, or with Nestoriās, or with Eutichians, or Mahometans, or Iewes, or Athiestes, and therfore not a Protestant, vnles you admit all kind of men into your commu­nion, and will haue the Protestant Church to be the congregation of them all. And this too, would not serue, for the thing wee de­maūd is a catalogue or successiō of mē whose religion is the same with yours and currant there in Englād. In like mānner if you should name a man which agreed with you in one [Page 20] halfe of your positions, and in the other halfe dissented, this man were not yours: yea lesse then halfe, or a quatter, or the tenth part, is Ynough to diuide a man from communion, and from vnitie in beleefe, as you may see in S. Epiphanius,S. Epiph. op. Panar. S. Aug. de Haeres. tom. 6. and S. Augustine. That you may the better conceaue me, suppose one of your fellowes is become an Arian, I aske you whether he be of your religion, and whe­ther his religion be currant there in England or not: if it be, then Arianisme is there currāt though the Roman profession be abhorred; if it be not? thē a fewe, yea one point is ynough to diuide you in religion from that man, and him from you. Now those men which you bring, were each of them contrarie in many pointes, as Waldo, Berengarius, Wickleffe: and therefore diuided, and distinct in religion frō you. Neither will your distinction of points fundamentall, and not fundamētall, help you here, both because those men did differ in your fundamentall ād most essentiall point of Protestancie, that is, in the matter of Iustifica­tion: as also because errours in other pointes besides those which you call fundamentall, are sufficient to make distinction in religion. which is euident and by your selues cānot be denied, for you saie that Papistes holde all fū ­damētalls, and yet their religion is not yours. [Page 21] But of this I haue spoked alreadie, and neede not repeate it. I onelie adde now, that a man by your principles may denie euery verse which is in the Bible, and obstinatelie too, ex­cepting that onelie which is expressed in the three Creedes, and Baptisme, and the Supper: and yet be of the same Church; and commu­nion with your selfe. And what thinke you of your fellow that saieth further that Arian Churches are allso to be accompted the Churches of God, because they hold the foundation of the Gospell. If this hold,Morton. of the Kingd. of Isr. and the Church. p. 94. what makes an hereti­que? what communion doe you refuse? what Church among Christians can be false, If all the Bible but twelue propositions, or there aboutes, if the Incarnation, if the Trinitie, if the Christians God may be denied, and the deniers be accompted the Church of God? It restes that you saie now that the Turkes are also of the same Church and religion with your selues.

13. A like obseruatiō to the former I would haue you to reflect on, whē our mē demaūd,White. what Church wee went out of and what precedent Church did oppose it selfe to our religion, and contradict it. Wee doe not aske whether any man euer did oppose any part of our beleefe, wee know there were such, there were some which did oppose the deitie [Page 22] of our Sauiour, some the Deitie of the holy Ghost, some the real Presence, some Images, &c. this wee know: but the demaūd requires proofe of a Protestāt Church (or any other, if you be wearie of defēding your owne) which being before ours, did examine, iudge, and cō ­demne our religion. If your men will giue sa­tisfaction to the questiō, they must answeare this: they must assigne a visible Church all­wayes extant, which did still condemne our religion, whensoeuer wee appeared; and being one in it selfe, was still against vs at all tymes when wee were.

Your last answere is that the Church of God was all infected with erroures for many hundred yeares, which errours were such notwithstanding (saie you) as destroied not her essence.white. And this conceipt you declare in the exāple of a leprouse mā. For your Church I admit easilie that it is infected with errours: The Church of God is not, as you shall heare in the third booke, where that matter shall be examined: in the meane tyme I repeate the former argument and put it thus. Either all Christians before Luther did erre in Matters of religiō, Arg. or some onelie, or none at all? If none at all did erre, Then why would you mend that which by your cōfession was not before amisse? why trouble you the world to bringe [Page 23] in a newe religion, without which you con­fesse it was well before? If all of them did erre in matters of religion, then your religion did not come downe to you from the Apostles by a succession continuall, as you pretend: your faith and religion was not alwayes in the world: the Gospell was not sincearlie and incorruplie professed at all tymes: I adde further, if al did erre, then you haue vnder­taken a taske vnpossible in your owne iud­gment, in offering to maintaine a perpetuall existence or being of your religion, and you quarrell with all that went before. And where then was the all teaching spiritte? did he mi­stake the true doctrine or did Christ breake his word? If some onelie did erre and not all, giue vs a Catalogue of some of thē who did not erre: let vs heare their names, the place of their aboade, the profession they were of, the tyme they liued in: produce a Catalogue, a Continuall Catalogue of such mē as agreed in doctrine with you, such as held the reli­gion now currant in England: who were they? whence were they? where were they? hould vp your head man! open your eies, and looke the question in the face.

THE THIRD CHAPTER. That no satisfaction is giuen to the demaund by recourse vnto Antiquitie.

15. HAd your religion bene such, that you could haue giuen accōpt and euidence of her continuall existence in the world, there would yet remaine a greater taske behinde, which were to prooue the generall commu­nion it had with Nations, and that it was and is Catholique in that respect: that it did, and doth consent, with Antiquitie: with the A­postles doctrine: and with the Scripture for this must be prooued, and exactly too before wee receaue it,See the Protest. Apol. and the Prud. Ballance. and leaue that which hath, bene generallie professed in England well neare a thousand yeares together, and was all that space the knowne religiō of the Christiā world. The true religion is such as I haue said, and therfore if you will haue vs praie with you, first showe that your Church is thus ample, thus Catholique, thus grounded, and ours not: for vntill you prooue this, which will neuer be, you may not hope that wee will come out of our Church into yours. To pro­ceed therfore. I demaund euidence that your religion, that I saie which in England is now [Page 25] currāt, hath, bene generallie in the cōmunion of the Christian world, and I demaund such euidence as may commaund a wise mā to be­leeue it. Your answeare to this in effect is, that in the first six hundred years it was so, though you will not be tied to giue accōpt of it after­wardes. By which euasion I doe gather, that you apprehend the former argumēt as a ghost haunting and affrighting you seeing that for feare of meeting it againe, you haue stepped ouer a thousand yeares together to take san­ctuarie among the Fathers in their Church. I was about to saie you were ill aduised to ad­uēture yourselfe thether, where Iouiniās, No­uatiās, Donatistes, and other your progenitors were cōdemned and accursed, but cōsidering your case better I see that feare would not let you aduise at all, but cast you, no matter whe­ther, so it were farre ynough out of my waie.

16. Now therfore I follow thether, but first obserue how you dare not auouch, and in effecte do deny, that the religion you main­taine was openlie professed, receaued publicklie, for nine hundred yeares be­fore Luther: which is but could encoura­gement for men to come to, or to staie with you: who pretending to giue accompt of a continuall succession and euer visible Catho­lique Church, doe come so short of the [Page 26] thinge expected that you can show none in all the world for nine hūdred yeares together and this, which you haue said, being wrested out of you vppon the racke, (ād much against your will, because infinitelie preiudiciall to your cause) I take for an effect of the former argument, which you haue not ben able to answeare yet, nor euer will be. The like issue it hath oft had before, for your writers ād best learned men, hauing the space of a hundred yeares together bene vrged and importuned with this question, haue laboriouslie sear­ched all recordes, turned ouer and ouer all au­thors, examined all writinges, with that in­dustrie, men are to suppose, which a cause required wheruppon eternitie doth de­pende, and yet, after infinite inquisition, can­not finde such a Church in former tyme as yours is: and herevpon haue confessed that the Christian world was of our Religion be­fore Luther, not of yours: imagining hereby, a generall Apostasie frō the faith to haue ouer­runne the whole world.Cal. praef. Instit. Hence Caluin in his Institutions saith, that in the ages past there was no face of a true Church: and that the true Religiō was drowned ād ouerthrowne for many ages. Whit­taker saith no religion but the papisticall had place in the Church: Whittak. cont. Dur. p. 274. and, wee knowe saith he as plainlie that the Church hath perisshed as thou knowest a man to be dead. The Popes tyranny saith Luther [Page 27] hath extinguisshed the faith many ages. Luth. Capt Babil. c. de Bapt. Perk. Ex­pos. Creed p. 400. Simon Voyon Ep ad lect. Hutter de sacrif. mis. p. 377. Before the dayes of Luther saith Perkins, for the space of ma­ny hūdred yeares an vniuersall Apostasie ouerspred the world. When Boniface was installed, saith an o­ther, the whole world was ouerwhelmed in the dreg­ges of Antichristiā filthines, with superstitiōs and traditiōs of the Pope. another, I graunt willinglie that the papist Idolatrie hath inuaded all most all the world, especiallie these last thousād yeares. ano­ther,Hospin. Hist Sa­cram l. 2. p. 157. in the tyme of Gregorie the great all kinde of superstitiō ād Idolatrie hath as a sea ouerflowed all the Christian world, no man resisting. Another the Papisticall ād Antichristian Raigne began about the yeere 316. after Christ, raigning vniuersallie, ād without any debateable cōtradiction 1260. yeares, Napp. on the Reuel. p. 68. the Pope and his clergie during all that tyme pos­sessing the outward visible Church of the Christiās. another. For certaine, through the worke of Anti­christ the externall Church, Seb. Franc. Ep de ab­rog. stat Eccl. together with the faith and sacramēts vanished a way presentlie after the Apostles departure: and for these 1400. yeares the Church hath bene no where externall and visible. another, the true Church decaied immediatelie after ther Apostles tyme. Fulk answer to Counterf Cath. p. 35. I haue a horrour to recite, what the bouldnes of your men doth auouch further towching the Christian Church in common; and her Apostasie from the faith, cōtrarie to the sēse of all Antiquity, and to the iudgment of the Christian world, [Page 28] yea contrarie to the promises of Iesus Christ, and to the couenant of allmightie God, as hereafter I will shewe. Meane while com­pare these textes vnto your doctrine of the Church: In the later dayes shall be prepared the mountaine, Isay 2. the house of our lord in the toppe of mountaines, and it shall be raised aboue the litle hilles, and all Nations shall flowe vnto it. Thou shalt not be called any more forsaken, and thy land shall not be any more called desolate, Id. c. 62. but thou shalt be called my will in her, and thy land inhabited, be­cause our lord hath taken complacence in thee, and thy land shall be inhabited. Id. c. 59. My spirit that is in thee and my words which I haue put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, and out of the mouth of thy seed, and out of the mouth of the seed of thy seede, saith our lord, from hence foorth and for euer.

17. The Church in the Scripture is so ample that All nations flowe vnto it: so established and so deare vnto Christ that she is no more forsaken, but her lād euer inhabited: so mind full of God, that she hath his words euer in her mouth: and by this, she is euer existent, euer visible. That Church or whore which you hunte after, perished longe agoe, for many ages she was not seene, her faith was extinguished, her religion drowned, she was no where visible, she had no face, she vanished presentlie, im­mediatelie [Page 29] after the Apostles dayes. Our Reli­gion in the meane tyme hathe bene vniuersall many hundred yeares, it hath ouer flowed the Christian world none resisting, and raigned vniuersallie without any debateable contradi­ction these thousand two hundred sixtie yeares. And thus much of them both you con­fesse.

18. I come now to speake of the religion of the Church primitiue, or first six hundred yeares as you measure it, and obiect that you doe not, nor euer will be able to conuince by cleare and sufficient euidence, that the Christian Church in those tymes was of the religion currant now in England: and therfore you doe not conuince our vn­derstandings, that wee should leaue that reli­gion which a thousand yeeres together was currant here in England, being then allso by your owne confession the religion of the Christian world, and communicate with your congregation. And, to shewe you here how hard a taske you haue in hand (being to giue euidenee of the consent of those tymes with you in religion) I will put three consi­derations in your way, which declare the dif­ficultie, and indeede, the impossibilitie of the taske. The first shall be the iudgmēt of those who liued since that tyme, ād before vs: the se­cond, [Page 30] the testimonies of the Fathers thē selues who liued in that primitiue age: the third, the confession of your owne prime deuines; and these I will runne ouer as brieflie as I can.

19 First therfore our Religion (or Papistrie, as you call it) had possession of the Christian Arg. 1 world before Luther nine hundred yeares together,You con­fesse the same as wee haue seene aboue nu. 16. as all histories doe prooue cleerlie: and these Christians all, on their Saluation haue deposed that theirs was the verie same religion with that which was commō in the first six hūdred yeares and receaued from the Apostles and from Christ himselfe. Among them were greate Schollers, graue Prelates and holie mē in great abundance, and greater meanes to knowe which was the religion of their forefathers then are now: wherfore the question being of fact onelie, it is not possible to resolue it better now, then those could resolue it then. The question, I say, is now ād then was, of fact: as, whether the knowne Church of God spred ouer the world in the sixt age for example, did frequēt masse, adore the blessed Sacrament, confesse their sinnes to Priests, fast lent, pray to Sainctes, and the like: what wee knowe of these things, wee haue by the relation or writings of others which were before vs: for wee cānot see so far immediately with our owne eies, nor [Page 31] immediatelie heare them speaking in that age which is past many hundred yeares agoe. Those before vs did learne of others that were elder: the fourteenth age learned of the thir­teenth: the thirteēth of the twelfth: the eight of the seuenth: the seuenth was immediate vnto the sixt, ād therefore had best meanes to resolue this point, because these mē had their Being, Instruction, Baptisme, Sacraments, Or­ders, Records, the Bible, and all others things, from them we speake of, that is from the sixt age: ād being close to them of that age,So com­pare the 6. age to the 5. the 5. to the 4. &c. and in part allso liuing with them, could see, heare, obserue, remember, and tell what they did. Since therfore all these did beleeue, and pro­fesse, and teach vnto their successors, and to their dearest frinds and children, ād generallie vnto the world, that theirs was the religiō of their forefathers, it is too late for you now to endeauour to prooue the contrarie: for you haue no kinde of historie, no monument, no relation, no fathers writing, no scrowle, no obseruation, in fine noe euidence touching the foresaid age, but from them.

To this I adde, that it is vnpossible for the whole Church in any age to erre; which is so cleere that to man leaues any way to himselfe to be assured in any point of faith from Anti­quitie, or from the scripture, or from the spirit, [Page 32] who denieth it. It is therefore vnpossible that for nine hundred yeeres together it should be mystaken in this great affaire of the religiō of the whole World before them. And, if the Spirit forsooke it for so lōge a tyme together, notwithstanding Gods promise, you labour in vaine to make men beleeue that he is at lēgth returned in your tyme, or another pro­mise more faithfully establisshed now. Better were it for you to beleeue, with vs, that all­mightie God hath not violated his couenant, wherof I spake before, my words which I haue put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed, Isay 59.21. and out of the mouth of the seed of thy seede, from this present and foreuer. And that his eternall ordinance stands in force, whereof S. Paul speaketh saying, that God gaue Pastors and Doctors to the consumma­tion of the saincts, Ephes. 4. v. 11.12. vnto the worke of the ministe­rie, to the edifieing of the bodie of Christ: vntill wee meete all into the vnity of faith.

21. The second meanes or demonstration Arg. 2 is deduced larglie through all ages, and out of all the Fathers writings, by diuers of our men:Thesaurus Catholi­cus Iod. Cocc. among the rest you may looke vppon Coccius and Gualterius, who haue expressed our consent with the primitiue Church so fullie, and brought such euident and so re­solute decrees of auncient Fathers, against [Page 33] your errours,Tabula Chrono­graphica stat. Eccl. Cath. [...]a [...] Gualt. that you haue dispaired longe agoe of euer winning the cause by this kinde of triall. The authorities which they alleage are allmost infinite: Coccius hath filled with them two great Tomes, and my intention is not to make a booke of this matter, but a peece of a Chapter onelie: Brieflie therefore for exāple I will giue ā instāce in two or three such as doe come first into my minde. You denie the primacie of the Roman See, the be­leefe of vnwritten Doctrine or Tradition, the reall presēce, trāsubstantiatiō or cōuersiō of the substāce of breade into the flesh of Christ, oblatiō or vnbloody Sacrifice in the Church prayer for the dead, inuocatiō of Sainctes, Crossing, &c. In the Fathers wee reade thus.S. Aug. Ep. 162. Iren. l. 3. aduers. Haer. c. 3. The princi­palitie of the Apostolicall chaire hath euer flo­rished in the Roman Church. It is necessarie that euery Church, that is, all faithfull rounde aboute resorte vnto the Roman Church because of her more powerfull Principalitie: in which Church the Tradition which is from the Apostles is allwayes kept by the faithfull which are round about. Leo Sem 3. de assūp. sua ad pō ­tif. Onelie Peeter is chosen out of all the world who is put both ouer the vocation of all Nations and ouer all the Apostles, and ouer all the Fathers of the Church: that allthough there be many Priests and many Pastors amōge the people of God, yet Peeter properlie rule or gouerne them All, whom Christ [Page 34] principallie doth allso gouerne. TRADI­TION. S. Chrys. in 2. Thess. hom. 4. It is manifest that the Apostles deliuered not all things by their Epistles, but many things without writing, and both the one and the other deserue the same beleefe, and therefore let vs esteeme the tra­ditions of the Church to be worthie of faith and credit. S. Epiphan Haeres. 61. Wee must vse Traditions: for the Scri­pture containeth not all things: and therefore the Apostles deliuered certaine things by writing, certaine by Tradition. REALLE PRESEN­CE. S. Cyrill. Hierosol. Catech. myst. 4. [...]. TRAN­SVB­STAN­TIA­TION. Serm. de coena Do­mini apud Cypr. S. Greg. Nyss. orat. Catech. c. 37. [...]. With all assurance let vs receaue the body and bloode of Christ; for in the forme of breade the body is giuen to thee, and in the forme of wine the bloode &c. knowing and beleeuing most assuredlie, that, that which appeareth breade is Not Breade though it seeme so to the tast, but it is the bodie of Christ, and that which appeareth wine is Not wine, as the tast doth iudge it to be, but the Bloode of Christ. The breade which our lord gaue vnto his disciples, being changed not in Shape, but in Nature, by the omnipotencie of the Word is made flesh. Christ thorough the dispensation of his grace entreth by his flesh into all the faithfull, and mingleth himselfe with their bodies which haue their substance from breade and wine, to the end that man being vnited vnto that which is immortall may attaine to be made partaker of incorruption and these things he bestoweth transelementing [Page 35] the Nature of the things that are seene into it. SACRI­FICE. S. Cyrill. Alexand. in declar. anathem. 11. Conc. Ephes. Iren. l. 4. c. 32. Wee celebrate in the Church the holie quickning and Vnbloodie Sacrifice, beleeuing not that, that which is shewed, is the bodie of some common man like vs, and his bloode, but wee receaue it rather as the life giuing words owne flesh and bloode; for common flesh cannot giue life. Christ tooke bread, and gaue thankes saying this is my bodie: and the chalice likwise &c he confessed to be his blood, and taught the new Oblation of the new testament, which the Church receauing from the Apostles doth offer to God in All the world. In the books of the Machabees wee reade that Sa­crifice was offered for the deade, PRAYER FOR THE DEADE. S. Aug. l. de cura pro mort. c. 1. but were it no where reade in old Scripture, the Authoritie of the whole Church which in this custome is well knowne, is not small, where in the prayers of the Priest which are powered out to our lord God at his Alter, the commendation allso of the deade hath a place. VVOR­SHIP OF SAIN­CTES. Iustin. Mart. Apol. 2. ad Ant. Wee doe worship and adore God the father and his Sonne, who came and taught vs these things: and the companie of his fol­lowers and the like good Angells, and the prophe­ticke Spirit: and wee doe worship them both by word and deedes and in truth: and wee teach or de­liuer this abundantlie to all those which will learne, according as wee haue bene taught and instructed. PRAYER TO SAINCTS S. Ambros. l. de Viduis The Angells are to be beseeched, which are giuen to vs for our guard: martyrs are to be beseeched [Page 36] whose patronage wee seeme to challenge by the pledge of their bodies. They can aske for our sinnes who with their bloode haue washed away their owne if they had any. They are Gods martyrs, our presidents, beholders of our liues and actions: let vs not be ashamed to make them intercessors of our infirmitie. CROS­SING. S. Aug. tract. 118 in Ioan. What is that signe of Christ which all know but the Crosse of Christ, which signe vnles it be applied either to the foreheads of the faithfull, or to the water whereby they are regenerated, or to the oyle wherewith they are confirmed, or to the Sacrifice wherwith they are nourisshed, nothing of this is well donne.

This will serue my turne, and now I argue thus: If our doctrine be found in the writings of Antiquitie and there approoued, it is vn­possible for any man to make it euident that Antiquitie is against vs, and for you: but our do­ctrine is there found and approued as the au­thors before named declare abundantlie, therefore &c. And in Confirmation hereof I take only that which they alleage out of those writings which are by your selues acknowledged for ancient and currant, be­cause I neede not here dispute of the autho­ritie of such as your men and some of ours do except against. Of this sense of An­tiquitie I haue here allso giuen you a tast, whereby a iudgmēt not distempered will per­ceaue [Page 37] immediatelie that you cannot make it euident that they were on your side. And in naming them for your predecessors you giue no satisfaction to the demaūd which inquires for vndeniable and cleere euidence of a successiō of such men as in Religion you are,The third book shall teach you whose in­terpretatiō must be stood to. or of Pro­testants. I knowe that you do offer to delude all the places which wee bringe: but men of iudgment may see by your answeares that you dare not stand to the proper sense of the Fathers words: an experience whereof they may see presentlie, if they will but obiect vnto you these fewe places here cited, ād obserue what poore answeares you make, and how farre they are from the plaine ād Grāmaticall sense of the words or sentences. Now further if your owne mē would open their mouthes and confesse plainlie, what they beleeue in their consciences touching the doctrine of Antiquitie, your assertiō or challenge would euidentlie yet appeare more vnreasonable and voyde of title, muche lesse would it de­serue to be supposed for certaine on your side that in those dayes all were yours. Wee will demaund of two or three of thē if you please, and the rather because their confession shall make roome for the next argument and bringe it in.

23. Speake Fulck and begin. I confesse that [Page 38] Ambrose, Ful. reio. to Brist. p. 36. Kem. exam Con. Trid. par. 3. p. 200. Hierome, Augustine, held inuocation of Saincts. Kemnitius. Most of the Fathers, as Na­zianzen, Nyssen, Basil, Theodoret, Ambrose, Hie­rome, Augustine, did not dispute but auouch the soules of martyrs and Saincts to heare the petitions of those who prayed vnto thē: they went often to the monuments of martyrs, and inuocated Martyrs by name. Whit. Def. p. 473. whitgift. All the Bysshops ād learned writers of the Greeke Church, ād Latines allso for the most part, were spotted with doctrines of freewill, merits, inuocation of Saincts &c.Cal. Inst. l. 3. c. 5. §. 10. Caluin. It was a cus­tome a thousand and three hundred yeares agoe to pray for the deade: veteres omnes. c. 4. §. 38. but all of that tyme I confesse were caried away into errour. Those things which occurre here and there about satisfaction in the writings of those of ould tymes moue me little. I see indeede some of them, I will speake plainlie, allmost all whose books are extant haue either slipt in this point, or spoken to rigourouslie, and to harshlie. Whitt. Cōt. 2. q. 5. c. 7. Whittaker wee confesse that some Pa­pisticall errours are auncient, and are held and defended by the Fathers; this wee do freelie and openlie professe. It is true which Cal­uine, Ibid. and the Centurists haue written, that the Auncient Church did erre in many things, as touching Limbus, freewill, merite of works &c. Ex Patrum erroribus vester ille Pontificiae Religionis cento con­sutus est. id. l. 6. con. Dur. s. 7. Mart. de Vot. col. 1559. Dud. ap. Bez. ep. 1. Collat. R. Chal. l. 2. c. 22. The Popish Religion is patched out of the Fathers errours. Peeter Martyr. As longe as wee stand to the Councells and [Page 39] Fathers, wee shall remaine allwayes in the same errours. Duditius. If that be the truth which the Fathers haue professed with mutuall consent, it is alltogether on the Papists side. Stay: here is enough for my purpose: if any man will haue more, let him goe to the Con­ference of my L. of Chalcedon and reade it there.

24. Before I make my argument I will note here an effect of this guiltie cōscience of Pro­testancie, which effect is to decline the way of tryall by the Fathers, to labour to persuade mē their iudgment is vnsecure,Iew. Ap. part. 4. p. 117. and in fine to cō ­temne them. Hence Iewell in his Apologie hath said, that the way of finding the truth by God speaking in the Church and Coun­cells, is very vncertaine, dangerous, and and in a manner franticke. Rainold in his con­ference would haue you beleeue that if the Fathers not onelie one, or two, but All,Rainold Conf. c. [...]. diu. 1. held a point now questioned, and not held it one­lie, but wrote it, nor onelie wrote it, but allso taught it, not darklie but plainlie, not seldome but commonlie, not for a short season but cōtinuallie This consent of theirs if any such be foūd, were vnsecure. Thus bouldly he prepares himselfe to encoūter thē all, this reckoning he makes of their Antiquitie, their Sāctitie, their Spirit, their consent. But will you see how [Page 40] Luther in his Cupps tramples on them.Lut. Coll. mēsal. c. de Pat Eccl. In the writings of Hierome there is not a word of true faith and sound Religion, Of Chrysostome I make no accompt, Basil is of no worth, he is whollie a Monke I way him not of a haire, Patrum authoritas susque de que faciē ­da est. de ser. arbit. c. 2. fol. 433. Cyprian is a weake Deuine &c. And in generall, The authoritie of the Fathers is not to be cared for. Let vs now to the last argument which I make thus.

25. If the Fathers of the first six hundred yeares haue deliuered our doctrine, and con­tradicted Arg. 3 yours, so cleerly that your best Schollers, and our greatest aduersaries in this quarrell of Religion, haue (though vnwillin­glie, yet by force of euidēce) directlie cōfessed it, then haue you not yet made it cleere that the Church in those tymes did beleeue as you doe, and was of the Religion now currant amongst you: But the Fathers of those tymes haue deliuered our doctrine, and contradicted yours so cleerelie that your best Schollers being allso our greatest aduersaries, haue dire­ctlie confest it, as is declared particularlie, and vnansweareablie in the Protestants Apologie in the points of the reall Presence, Transubstan­tiation, Sacrifice of the Masse, Inuocation of Saincts, Prot. Ap. tract. 1. Sec. 3. prayer for the deade, Sainct Peeters Pri­macie, Confession, Satisfaction, Absolution from sinnes by the Priest, Merit, Iustification by good [Page 41] works, Images, Vowes, Reliques, Ceremonies, vn­written Traditions &c. Therefore you haue not yet made it cleere that the auncient Church did beleeue as you doe ād was of the Religion now currant among you.Do not rūne away cowardly from this argument and busie your self heere in expoūding or obiectīg Fathers as your ap­pealants imperti­nētly haue donne: for this is but to daunce on a round as Mr. Brerely in his aduer­tisments tould Morton. But, consi­der atten­tiuely what is heere, ob­iected, and answere it directly thorough out point by point. The thing vr­ged is the confession of your owne De­uines. What do you say to this Confession; I do not aske in this place how you do Glosse the Fathers, or what is your opiniō: No. But I demand what you say to the Confessiō of your fellowes, ād how you do answere the argumēt heere drawne from the said Confession. I sawe Mortōs Booke once, and when I lookt next into the Prot. Apol. I found Mr. Bre­releys discourse to be so full, and so far to ouerreach Mortōs answere, that it was argument, and replie both in one, and still will be. So that indeed you are so farre frō hauing the better in that part of the question which your ans­weare doth suppose, that your side is infini­tely preiudiced, and vnpossible that you should euer come to equall termes, much more vnpossible is it that you should euer in the consistorie of Reason and Equitie gaine the cause. Why then do you perswade vs to followe you before you make it cleere or credible to learned men that you goe right? that you goe the same way which the primi­tiue Church did goe? their Posterity which did immediatly follow them, tell vs that they went our way, not yours: the same all Chri­stian Churches euer since for nine hundred years do witnesse: the same your owne doc­tors do confesse: and why then must not wee follow? there is no right way but one, no faith true but one, no Catholique Church but one. And, now I resume the reason often vrged heretofore, which the further it goes, the more strength it gettes, and thus I argue. That Religion which neuer had the com­munion of the Christian world, is not Catho­lique [Page 42] or vniuersall: but the Religion now cur­rant in England neuer had the communion of the Christian world, for since Luther it was neuer the Religiō of the Christian world nor in the tyme of the primitiue Church, nor in the later nine hundred yeers: therefore it is not Catholique.

THE FOVRTH CHAPTER. That no satisfaction is giuen by pretense of Scripture.

26. THe last shift wherevnto in fine you be­take your selfe, is to leaue Antiquitie, ād to be tryed by the word or Scripture onely And here too, you are so nice, that you will admit a part onely of Scripture, and scarce knowe what your owne selues. But of this hereafter. Here I replie that wee haue Scrip­ture too, and that you cannot bringe suffi­cient euidence that the Scripture is against vs, and with you. For tryall of this I am con­tented according to your desire to abstract [Page 43] from all other meanes what soeuer: from the testimonies of learned Fathers, from the de­finitions of generall Councells, from consent of Nations, and other argumēts of that kinde, and to see whether, the Scripture alone will approue or condēne our Religion. And because in deducing a consequence out of ob­scure premises a mans wit may be deceaued I wil abstract from this allso, that is from dra­wing consequences out of Scripture, looking onely to that which is, and necessarily must be true, and which is formallie auouched or denied in Gods word: and I argue thus. The Scripture doth no where formallie denie any point of our faith, nor formallie affirme any point which our Church doth denie, therefore the Scripture doth not formallie condemne vs. I say formallie, for your con­sequences are not Scripture, and therefore I abstract as I said, from them as impertinent to the termes and state of this Question wherein now wee are.

27. To this argumēt you and your fellowes make answeare by allegation of Scripture against vs, The chiefest I will brieflie runne ouer here; the rest shall be answered in other places as it comes. Wee honour Images,Ex. 20.4. Honoraria adoratio­ne, non ve­ra latria. Conc. gen. Nic. 2. act. 7. in de [...]i. & in ep. ad Impp. and this you say is opposite to that of Exodus thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen thing [Page 44] nor the likenes &c. Our doctrine is that Images are indeed to be honoured, yet not with the soueraigne honour due to God, but with ano­ther inferior This is declared by the Church in the second Nicene Councell. Now to the place of Scripture, I answeare that it makes not against vs: because, respectiue or relatiue honour giuen to pictures in regard of the re­ference they haue, [...] to the Samplers is not there spokē of: [...], non adora­bis ea, ne­que latria coles ea. but soueraigne honour onely: ād this wee do not giue to pictures. The truth of this answeare is cleere by the circumstāces of the text wherein allmightie God reserues his Soueraignetie and the honour due to God, vnto him selfe, as being the onely God, and none God but he. To helpe out your ar­gument here, you adde a word of your owne to the text, and reade, thou shalt make to thee no grauen image, whereas the Hebrew word [...] doth not signifie an image, but sculptile, a grauen thing. You might as well haue said sculpere were latine for to paint. The Greeke text hath [...],The 70. Interpre­ters. whence the Latine word Idolū, in English an Idol: ād the litterall sense is, thou shalt not make to thy selfe an idol, that is, a feined God, nor adore him. Now Catholiques neither make to them selues, nor adore Idols, nor yeeld Soueraigne honour or acknowledgment of Deitie to any but to [Page 45] God, wherefore this place is not against vs. And if you will needs haue the Scripture to contradict vs in this point, since contradiction must be affirmatiō and negation of the same, and since the words worship and honour haue diuers senses (for men do worship allso others that are not Gods, and do honour their prince, their Parents &c) let vs heare out of the Scripture the opposite of that which wee say: ours is this, it is lawfull to honour Images with a relatiue honour which is not the soueraigne honour due to God, but an other infinitely lesse: the contradictory wherevnto is this, it is not lawfull to giue such an honour vnto Images. Showe this proposition in the Scripture, and you condemne vs, otherwise it is impertinēt; and because I knowe it is not there at all, I goe to the next, wherein you labour to knocke our Church on the heade by proouing the Pope to be Antichrist.

28. The text cited is this.2. Thes [...]. 2 [...] v. 3.4. Vnlesse there come a reuolt first, and the man of sinne, the sonne of per­dition be reuealed, which is an aduersary, and is exalted aboue all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the tēple of God, VVitc [...] sewing him him selfe as if he were God. This text should not haue bene vrged together with the former, if you had looked to gaine any thinge with it: for by the former you [Page 46] would haue prooued that the Pope made himselfe (and taught the Church to be) infe­riour to many Gods: And Antichrist as you finde here, will pretend to be aboue all that is called God, or that is worshipped: how then can you imagine the Pope to be Antichrist? againe, the Pope doth worship and pray to Saincts, and Angells, he doth acknowledge himselfe to be minister and seruant to Iesus Christ, he doth acknowledge the blessed Tri­nitie to haue made and to conserue him, and to be infinitely greater then he, the Pope, is, in power and Maiestie, and this he doth teach vnto the Church,Dan. 7. & 11. whereas Antichrist will extoll himselfe aboue all that is worshipped, and will speake greate things against the God of Gods, and will laboure to be greater in the estimatiō of men then all that is called God, and thus to sit in Gods Temple. Moreouer S. Peeter did sit as Vicar and Pastor in the Church,Matth. 16.18. Io. 21.18. he being by our Sauiour created the foundation and the Pastor of it, and his residence was in Rome allso, yet none hath bene hetherto so impudēt as to say that he was Antichrist: and he were sensles that would auouch it, since Antichrist is not a minister of Christ and his seruant, but an aduersary, who doth magnifie himselfe aboue him and aboue all that is adored. Whe­refore it is a sensles thing to say that the suc­cessors [Page 47] of S. Peeter are Antichrist for that reason, that is, because they sit as Pastors in the Church, and reside in Rome. And thus much for the matter of this instance. As for the forme of it, you must obserue better that the text of Scripture doth not affirme that which wee denie, or denie that which wee affirme. Wee say the Pope is the Pastor of the Church and Vicare of Christ, and that he is not Antichrist. The Scripture, doth not say, the Pope is not Pastor of the Church, that he is not the Vicar of Christ, that he is Antichrist. And therefore our Church hetherto is not for­mallie contradicted by the Scripture.

29.1. Cor. 10 16. [...] That which is in the Cha­lice is it which did issue out of the side. &c. Chrysost. in hunc lo­cum. Thirdly to contradict the Church which doth beleeue the holy Eucharist to be the body and bloud of Christ, and not bakers breade, and bare wine; though it be in the outward formes of them You bringe the place of S. Paul, The chalice of benediction which wee do blesse is it not the communication of the bloud of Christ: and the bread which wee breake is it not the participation of the body, of our lord? I answeare that our doctrine is not here denied but affirmed; for the Apostle teacheth here (importing withall by his manner of speach, the doctrine to be so well, and so commonly knowne, that none can denie it, he teacheth I [Page 48] say) that the breade and the cuppe are the communication of the body and bloude of our lord. The reason whe­reof is cleere, because in those formes are exhibited reallie the body and the bloude of Christ. Whereas in your sense there were no reall receauing, giuing or participa­ting, of the body and bloud of Christ, but of bakers breade and meere wine. And there­fore to the Apostle, the Corinthians (if they had bene of your Religion) might haue answeared, no: it is not any communication, participation, or communion of bloude and flesh, but of naturall meate and drinke. If you stick at the word breade, you are dull, for the words annexed to it doe interprete fully what breade it is; and before, you haue the word applied, and the sense of it inculcated, in the Sixt of S. Iohn, where our Sauiour saith, the breade which I will giue is my flesh; Io. 6. v. 51.32.58.48. my father giues you true bread from heauen, I am the breade of life &c. where I thinke you are not so sēsles as to take the word breade for that which bakers make. More ouer this flesh or body of Iesus Christ, is in the forme of bread in the Church, as it was allso in his owne hād whē he gaue it ūto his disciples, ād therefore after the phrase of Scripture it is called breade;Mar. 16. Act. 1. as Angells appearing in mēs likenes are there called mē.

[Page 49]30. Fourthlie, whereas wee say that it is not necessary the publique seruice be said in the vulgar tongue You oppose those words of S. Paul. If I pray in a tongue (to wit,1. Cor. 14. v. 14. which I vnderstand not) my Spirit prayeth, but my minde is without fruite Answ. The meaning is, that I haue not in that case the benefit of profiting my soule or minde with contemplation of the thinge: yet neuer the lesse my Spirit is ele­uated, and ascendeth vnto God, which is the substance and essence of prayer, and this is nothing against vs. You vrge againe, if thou blesse in Spirit, how shall he say amen which doth supplie the place of the vulgar, v. 16. since he knoweth not what thou sayest: Answ. The meaning is, if thou speake some praise of God, the hearers not knowing whether it be good or bad, he that supplies the place of the vulgar cannot say amen to it. Neither is this against vs, for our cōmon prayers or liturgies are both knowne and approoued by the Church to whom this approbation doth belonge, and this all do know: and therefore the clarke or he that supplieth the place of vulgar may boudly s [...] Amen. Moreouer the Apostle doth not censure as ill that blessing in Spirit, which you do vrge, but sayeth expresly that he doth giue thankes well which doth so.v. 17. If you say the con­trary, thē you cōtradict the scripture, not wee.

[Page 50] De impu­ta iustitia nihil no­rūt VVal­denses Luth. col­ [...]oq. c. de Suermeris. Coce. l. 8. [...]. 4.31. The fift place is to shewe by Scripture that iustifyīg faith is that speciall faith where­by you beleeue that your sinnes are all for­giuen, and you iust by an extrinsecall impu­tation of the iustice inherent in Iesus Christ. This which is the ground and soule of your Religion wee denie. Your proofe is. Abraham beleeued God and it was imputed vnto him to iu­stice. Rom. 4.3. v. 16. And, therefore of faith, that according to grace the promise may be firme. Answ. This is nothing against vs, nor for you: for the que­stion is of the Obiect of this faith, whether it were the remission of sinnes to him that be­leeued they were remitted, as you interprete it,From the 16. v. to the end. or somthing els. Reade further and you shall finde in the same Chapter that the Obiect or thing he beleeued was that God would make him the father of many Nations; and that notwithstanding his owne age and the sterilitie of his wife, God was able to performe this promise. Of your Obiect there is not one word: neither is it to be foūd any where in all the Bible. The Obiect of Iu­stifying faith, if you beleeue Scripture is the Incarnation, the Passion, Resurrection, and other revealed Mysteries. Who is he that ouer­cometh the world? he that beleeueth that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God. [...]. Io. 5. v. 5. Rom. 10.9. If thou confesse with thy mouth our lord Iesus, and in thy hart beleeue that God [Page 51] hath raised him from the deade, thou shalt be saued. Without faith it is vnpossible to please God; for, Heb. 11.6. he that cōmeth to God, must beleeue that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seeke him. This is the Obiect of iustifying faith: and the second part, you do not beleeue, because it implieth a me­rite in the beleeuer.

32. The sixt place is about communion of lay people in both kinds. You, would haue it a diuine precept for the lay people: I ad­mit a diuine precept for the Priests who do consecrate: and denie that there is any such whereby the lay people are commanded to receaue the Sacrament in both kinds. Your place is, Drinke ye all of this. Mat. 26.27 But this place doth not import a precept or commaund for the lay people to receaue the blood: for the speach is not directed to the lay people, but to the Apostles: And the word all, is referd to them, and was verified by them. This is ma­nifest by the words of the Gospell. He gaue to his Disciples, and said, take and eate: ibid. v. 26.27.28. this is my bo­dy, And taking the chalice he gaue thankes and gaue to them (the same disciples) saying, drinke ye all of this, for this is my bloode &c. And S. Marke relating it saith, and taking the chalice, giuing thanks, he gaue to them, and they all dranke of it. If all dranke of it, thē by all, the Apostles are meant onely, for all men were not there: [Page 52] neither haue all Christians drunke of it. In this therefore you haue produced no diuine precept for all men in their owne persons to re­ceaue the blood.

33. The seauēth place is to prooue the Scrip­ture to be iudge of Cōtrouersies, ād sufficient of it selfe without helpe of Traditiō. Wee hold the necessity of Traditiō too. [...]. Tim. 3.16. The place is: All scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach, to argue, to correct, to instruct in iustice, that the mā of God may be perfect, instructed to euery good worke. Answ. This is not against vs, wee graunt tath it is profitable: Wee denie that it is, all suffi­ciēt. These two, you must distinguish; the first is here affirmed, the second is not. There must be meanes to knowe which is Scripture, which Booke, which Chapter, which verse: and to know the sense of it: And herein wee must be directed by the Spirit of the Church. Wee must take the Scripture from her hands, and the meaning of it from her mouth. Harke what the same Apostle saith in an other place.2. Thess. 2.15. Hold the Traditions you haue learned, whe­ther it be by word or by our Epistle. [...]. But of this you shall heare more here after. It is sufficient here that no place of Scripture doth contra­dict the doctrine of the Church; and your la­bour to prooue it, is all vaine, for that Spirit which directed the writers of Gods word, [Page 53] doth allso direct the Church to the sense of it, and therefore it is vnpossible for any man to finde Opposition betwixt the Church, and Gods word.

34. Stay now! let vs looke on the contradi­ctions all together in could blood before we goe. The first, God forbids to giue soueraigne ho­nour to any but to him selfe, Papists say: an inferior and relatiue honour may be giuen to the pictures of Christ and his Saincts. The secōd. Antichrist is opposite vnto and extolled aboue all that is called God, and sits in the Temple of God shewing him­selfe as if he were God. Papists. The Pope is Christs Vicar here vppon earth and Pastor of his Churth. The third. The Eucharisticall bread is the par­ticipation of the body of our lord. Papists: it is not the participation of bakers breade, but of the true body of Christ in forme of breade. The fourth. If I pray in a tōgue, my Spirit prayeth but my minde is without fruite. Papists. It is not necessarie that Priests say Masse in the vulgar tongue. The fift. Abraham beleeued God that he should be Father of many Nations and it was imputed to him to iu­stice. Papists. Iustifying faith is not that whereby N. N. beleeues his sinnes are forgiuen him. The sixt. The Apostles were commanded all to drinke the cuppe. Papists: The lay people are not comman­ded to drinke the cuppe. The seuenth. All Scrip­cure is profitable to teach &c that the man of [Page 54] God may be perfect, instructed to euery good worke. Papists: Traditions are to be receaued, the Scripture is not by itselfe all sufficient. This is the substance of that which hath bene here dis­cussed. Good logicians be modest, or go peri­patize with your Aristotle some where els. I sit, and you stand in the same schoole, are con­tradictories according to the rule by which our nimble Masons do builde their newe Church: but, A man is iustified by works and not by faith onely: A man is not iustified by works, but by faith onely: are not contradictorie, though you meane workes done by grace and in grace: a litle newe morter may dawbe them both together: for if ye marke, the one of them is true in the iudgment of S. Iames the A­postle▪ and the other is true in the iugdment of Mr. Iohn Caluin, and so they are not secun­dum idem.

THE FIFT CHAPTER. Other places of Scripture are answered.

35. BEing past the monstrouse Argument which thought to affright me wich the multitude of his heades, I was going on to cite Scripture against you, but an other [Page 55] Chimaera meets me in the Way. Iohn White in his preface to the way had made his bragge that Protestāts haue Scripture in manifest places, free from all ambiguitie on their side. And being to make this good in his Defence,I Whites Defense [...] 8. n. 4. hath pickt out such places, as he thought of most aduan­tage and most cleere. Parte of them are the same with some of those I haue allready spoken of in the former Chapter. The rest I will runne ouer briefly: beare with me if I be longer in this point then you desire.

The first. An Angell would not be adoared by S. Iohn but refused it, saying, see thou doe not, Apoc. 1 [...].10. 22 v. 9 [...] I ā thy fellowe seruāt, adore God. The Apostle againe another tyme fell downe to adore the An­gell, and it was againe answeared as before. Answ. It is cleere by this text, that the Angell refused to be adored by S. Iohn, and this wee beleeue: But it is not said here, that it is ill to adore an Angell, yea in the iudgment of S. Iohn, it was conuenient, and being told of it he still beleeued it to be conuenient, for he did offer, notwithstanding the first refusall, to doe it the second tyme. The place there­fore is against you. Neither is there any diffi­cultie in the matter: for S. Iohn might well offer it, and the Angell, considering how deare the Apostle was to the Sonne of God, and lord of Angells, and how greate his [Page 56] Apostolicall dignitie was, might well refuse it.So v. Bede, S. Ansel­me and others vp­pon this place. Luke 17.10.

36. The second. When you haue done all things that are commanded you, say wee are vnprofitable seruants, wee haue done that which wee ought to doe. This is brought to exclude all merite from our actions donne by and in grace. But it comes to short: first, because here is speach onely of things commanded: Matth. 19.21. [...]. Cor. 7. v. v. 25.38.40 now there are other actions not commanded: and by those at leaste wee may merite, notwithstanding this sentence. Secondly God by creation is Lord of all his creatures, and men thereby are naturallie bound to serue him.2. Pet. [...] Iohn 1.12. By grace men are made partakers of the diuine nature, and are sonnes of God, and he their Father: Wherefore if as seruants they could not merite (as by na­ture indeed they cannot) as children they might.Seruants are vnpro­fitable, if their masters profit come not from their seruice: howsoeuer they may be perad­uenture good hus­bands for thē selues. And this place hath nothing to the contrary. Thirdly our labour is vnprofitable to God our lord and Master, for he is neuer the better for that wee doe, being infini­telie happie in him selfe: but it may be pro­fitable to our selues: and this is not here denied.

37. The 3. Blessed are the dead which die in our lord, from hence forth now saith the Spirit, that they rest from their labours, for their works [Page 57] follow them. This place is brought against Purgatorie, or paines after this life,Apoc. 14.13. suffered by such as depart in the grace of God. But it is so farre from being cleere to this purpose,S. Aug. l. 20 Ciuit. c. 9. that it rather helpes our cause. Some with S. Augustine vnderstand the place of Mar­tyrs; and Martyrs instantlie goe to heauen, wherefore in that way there is no difficultie,S. Ansel. vppon this place. in the words. Others with S. Anselme interprete from hence, that is from the Re­surrection or generall Iudgment: and they are grounded in the discourse of the Chapter, This way hath no difficultie nei­ther, for all immediately after that tyme are in blisse.S. Th. Aq. in 4. d. 21. q. 1. a. 1. q. 1. ad 1. S. Thomas doth distinguish working in way of merite, from suffering in way of purgation: and graunts that such as are deade in our lord are in securitie of their salua­tion, and therefore happie: and do rest from the laboure of merit, that labour is past: they did many good works in their lyfe tyme, and those follow them, they neede no more.Ob. Phil. 3. 12. Aus. ibi. v. 15. But some of them neede purging: and there­fore they may suffer and be punished. The soule departing out of this world, and going to the Tribunal of Gods iustice is attended by her works, and according to them receaues her sentēce. Wee must all be ma­nifested before the iudgment seate of Christ, that [Page 58] euery one may receaue the proper things of the body, [...]. Cor. 5.10 [...] 1. Cor. 3 v. 13.14.15. The forme of the last iudgment you haue Mat 20. v. 31.32. &c. consider the respect it hath there to VVorks. Lut. 22.25 according as he hath donne either good or euil. The worke of euery one shall be manifest: for the day of our lord will declare, because it shall be reuealed in Fire and the worke of euery one what kind it is the Fire shall try. If any mās worke abide which he built there vppon, on the foundation Christ, he shall receaue [...] Reward. If any mans worke burne, he shall suffer Detriment: but himselfe shall be saued: yet so as by fire.

38. The fourth The kings of the gentiles ouer rule them, but you not so. cited against our doc­trine of the Primacie: I Answ. First: the Pri­macie was not then instituted,Io. 21.18. but afterwards, and therefore if our Sauiour had said that none was first at that tyme, it were not against vs. Secondly if you presse the words they will make for vs and against you: they wil prooue one greater then the rest,v 26. [...]; he that is the greater among you, let him become as the yonger; and he that is leader, as the waiter. Which precept doth suppose a greater, and a leader among them. Thirdlie the sense you make would take Bisshops allso from the Church, for of them the Scripture saith likewise that they must not ouer rule the Clergie,1. Pet. 5.3. [...], Act. 20.28. and the word in Greeke is the same with that whereby S. Matth. doth expresse the ruling which you do vrge, and yet you know that the holie Ghost [Page 59] hath placed Bysshops to rule the Church. Fourthlie our Sauiour doth not say that among the A­postles none shall be Superiour, but he saith onelie that it must not be so amonge them in matter of gouerment and subiection, as it is amonge the heathen Princes: and this wee graunt. Those Princes ordinarily, domineere imperiouslie, and regard not so much the good of their subiects, as their owne priuate ends. This doth not consist with Christian discipline, and is here forbidden. Lastlie the Greeke text of S. Mathew doth take away all apparence of doubt in this point:Mat. 20.25.26. the words are [...]. The Princes of the Gentiles domineere ouer them and ouerrule them: and they that are the greater, exercise power against thē: It shall not be so among you. You know the power of [...] which is here twise vsed: turne your lexicon and reade there [...] Dominium exerceo aduersus, [...] dominantur aduersus eos, do beare rule against them. put then all to­gether, ād you will be ashamed of your owne argument.

39. The fift;1. Tim. 3.2 [...] brought for mariage of Priests It behoueth a Bysshop to be the husband of one wife. Answ. Is the meaning thinke you, a Bys­shop of necessitie must haue a wife: or; he that hath, or hath had, more then one, is not fit to [Page 60] be made Bysshop. If you will haue the first to be the sense, you are contrarie not onely to the practise of our Church, and of the A­postles, but allso to your owne fellowes, and are a Religion by your selfe. If you thinke the second be the sense, it makes nothing against vs:S. Ierom. Chrysost. Oecumen. Theoph. wee make none Bisshops that are bigami, that haue had more wiues then one: such mē are not fit for so sacred an office. There is indeed a controuersie betwixt vs and you,Vide Cocc. t. 2. l. 8. art. 6. 7. Whether it be lawfull for a Priest or Bysshop to take a wife. You affirme, wee de­nie it. And the Apostle doth not contradict vs; he doth not say it is lawfull for a Bysshop to take a wife, wich was to be showne in Scri­pture.

1. Tim. 4.3.40. The sixt. Some in the laste tymes shall come commanding or persuading to abstaine from meates which God created to receaue with thanks giuing. Answ. There were men to come that would forbid to eate meats, estee­ming them vncleane, Epiphan. haeres. 66. Aug. hae­res, 46. and created or made by an ill cause: such were the Manichees, who did hold there were two prime causes, one good, the other bad: both eternall, both Gods. And flesh they said the bad God cre­ated.Aug. l. 30. con. Faust. c. 5. & 6. The Apostle speaketh of these men as S. Augustine and others well obserue, and it is manifest by the reason in the text [Page 61] whereby the Apostle doth impugne the fo­resaid men; for saith he euery creature of God is good. v. 4. Which proposition is euident in it selfe, and opposite directlie to the ground of the foresaid Heretiques. But this doth nothīg concerne vs who do abstaine some tymes by the example of our Sauiour, and by the com­mand of our Mother the Church,Vide Coc [...] tom. 2. lib. 3. a. 8. 9. 10. not for that reason of the Manichees, but for other good ends.

41. The seuenth▪ Rom. 1 [...]. [...]. let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers, for there is no power but from God. Answ. wee teach the same as you see by all our commentaries vppon this place. But what your Master Caluin thinks of the busines, the world knowes. I referre you to the Preface of the Protestants Apologie, to Monarchomachia, &c.

42.Apoc. 17.18. There is an other out of the Apoca­lyps to prooue the Pope Antichrist. The wordes are, the woman which thou sawest is the greate cittie, which hath king done ouer the kings of the earth. Answ. The mysterie heere spoken of is so profound and darke that you can finde no bottom to build vppon; But to en­deuour vppon those Hills whereon the wo­mā sittes (be they mysticall, v. 9. all one with the Heades and Kings, or materiall) to raise a Fort to batter the See of Sainct Peeter [Page 62] erected and established by Iesus Christ, is An­tichristian. The Cittie some interprete mysti­cally thinking it to be the confused multitude of the Wicked, which is the Cittie of the Deuil, opposed to the Cittie of God or So­cietie of the Good: Others think it to be Rome as it was in S. Iohns time when the Emperours there abiding did persecute the Church of Christ: and as it will be about the end of the world. Be it this, or that, or some other: nothing is heere auouched against vs. It is not heere said that the Pope is that Woman, or, that he is the Beast on which the Woman sate, or, that he is one of the Heades of the Beast, or, that he is Antichrist. No one of all these is heere affirmed: why then do you alleage it: what is this to the ar­gument wherein I said, the Scripture doth no where formallie contradict vs? or how doth it iustifie your bragge that you haue Scripture in manifest places free from all ambiguitie on your side.

43. And thus farre, concerning the texts alleaged by Iohn White, which he affirmed to be manifestlie and without ambiguitie for the Protestants: where as not any one, doth in termes contradict that which our Church doth teach, which was the thinge he made his reader to expect. But you will bid a man [Page 63] aske the Spirit for the sense of these places: And to meet with you at this turning too, so will I. You will direct him to the Spirit in your selfe, in Iohn white. I will direct him to the Spirit in the Church. My direction and resolution is well grounded, as I will declare here after: Yours is not. And if by this litle which hath bene said here in this Chapter a man would make a guesse at your Spirit, he should quicklie find his nature. First he con­tradicts the Spirit of the Fathers who held Purgatory, merit. &c. Secōdlie he cōtradicts the Spirit of the Catholike Church which he doth oppose in these things. Thirdly he con­tradicts the Spirit of S. Iohn the Apostle and imputes vnto him a deliberate act of supersti­tious Idolatrie (so you call adoring āgells) to­gether with grosse stupiditie, that being tould once, and that by an Angell too, he would not forbeare, but doe it againe. But of this, I shall speake againe in an other place▪ that which for the present I conclude here is, that the Scripture doth not condemne vs in plaine words. You haue done all you can to shew it, and cannot yet finde one place for this pur­pose. You see allso by the way what I thinke, of your consequences; though that was not my scope in this discourse as I declared in the be­gining of the former Chapter.

THE SIXT CHAPTER. That is vnpossible for Protestants to winne the cause by Scripture.

44. HEretiques all generallie affect obscu­ritie; they drawe their opponent as much as euer they can into the darke, that he may not see there what they doe, or their confusion be concealed from the people, and so their credit saued. I expected cleere places, I looked for a cōbate in the light, you should haue shewne in plaine words in the Scrip­ture, there is no Purgatory: Christ is not in the Sa­crament reallie: Priests and Bysshops may take wiues: to worship Angells is Idolatrie. These and the rest of your propositions you should haue showne there, if you would haue wōne that way, and haue done that which you preten­ded. But you haue not done it, you haue cited some places which haue it not in the words, and in regard they are obscure to you or to the ignorant, you suspect or guesse, and pretēd the sense which you would haue may lie se­cret in the words, though you cannot shewe it there, and wee knowe it is not there at all. Wee haue light enough to see that the Scrip­ture in those places doth not as much as ob­scurely [Page 65] speake against vs; wee haue prayer ād industry, wee haue the Fathers helpe, wee ha­ue innumerable eies regardīg the doctrine of the Church and the Scripture, and cōparing them together. In a word the assisting Spirit with all his guif [...]s is in our Church.

45. Now to shewe further how vnpossible a taske it is for you to declare and make it euident out of Scripture that yours is the true Religion and ours not, I will turne the argu­ment which I did vse in the begining of the former Chapter into an other forme ād make it thus. If the scripture doth formallie auouch our doctrine and denie yours, Arg. it is vnpossible for you to make it euident by the Scripture that your Religion is true, and ours false: But the Scripture doth formallie auouch our do­ctrine and denie yours; and this I will shewe running thorough the points wherein our maine difference doth consist, which are the Infallibility of the Church in deliuering Scrip­ture ād Gods word generallie, Traditions, reall Presence, Oblatiō of Christs body ād blood in the formes of bread ād wine for the remissiō of Sinnes, which is the vnbloodie Sacrifice, The Primacie of S, Peeter, and his Pastorall office, Absolution from sinnes by Priests, Indul­gences, Iustice before God, and intrinsecall in mē, or inherent, Iustification by works, and Reward [Page 66] of them, keeping the Commandements, Freewill in works of grace, Vowes and workes of Counsell not of command, Single life, prayer for the dead, Intercession of Sainctes and Angells, and finallie Worship of some things inanimate or sensles in regard of the refe­rence they haue to things truely capable of honour more then ciuile. In these gene­rall heads the rest are included, and these you name allwayes, and stand most vppon them. I am now by my promise, to bringe their grounds out of Sripture, wherein I will be as briefe as I can, and will begin with the neerest which is the last, ād so backwards till I meete the first againe. Before I begine the taske two thinges are to be noted: The first is, that I am not in this Chapter to cōtend about the sense and meaning, if you pretend it is not that which the words offer immediately: but that my taske is donne if I bringe places of scripture which affirme formally (if the words be taken in their proper sense) that which wee doe. A further Iudgment or determina­tion of the meaning and sense of the words I bringe, is to be taken from the testimo­nie of the Spirit: The Spirit (I say) is to be iudge of the sense and meaning: not the spirit of ex­ternes, or in them: but the spirit in Gods Church. And this Iudgment is euidently on [Page 67] our side as I will prooue in the third booke. Here I am not to meddle with it: but only to finde our doctrine in the same or equiualent words, and to put it here downe. This you must beare in minde likewise for the argumēt which in the third Chapter I made out of the Fathers. It suffised there against you to cite our doctrine out of their mouthes. Of their mea­ning, the Spirit must be Iudge. And, not the Spirit in externes: but the Spirit in the Church. The second is, that, since to descend vnto particulars and to inquire each ones opi­nion in matter of Religion among Protestāts is endles, and of infinite regard,3. Book 4▪ ch. because euery man holds what he lists, and doth as­sume to himselfe the iudgment of controuer­sie in Religion: I meane here to name only your two Masters, the late Euāgelists, ād refor­mers forsooth, of the Church, Luther and Caluin; and to cite them in this busines, in­cluding you as farre as you consent with them: for I intend in this Chapter to ex­tend my former scope a litle, and to shewe more generally the opposition of Protestātes to the Scripture. Of Protestantes, (for I speake now of the whole body such as it is) some be Lutherans, some be Caluinists: in some things the Lutherans oppose the Scripture more then Caluinists: in other things the Caluinists [Page 68] more then the Lutherans: in other both are opposite vnto Gods word. When you are on that side which doth consent with vs, thē my discourse doth not proceede against you: yet then allso, my argument holds, in as much as it is confessedly true that in those points the Scripture is not against vs. If (I say) at any tyme you dissent from your masters whom I will name, and admit that they and their Spirit of interpretation are contrarie to the Scripture, you may interprete your selfe not to be included amongst them I speake vnto: But my argument will runne on against you for all the rest of the points wherein you consent and agree with them, which are all­most all, in substance, howsoeuer there may be some litle Difference about the manner. If the Scripture affirme any thing absolutely, [...], and you graunt it only [...], or, with a limitation, I goe on in such cases against you as opposite vnto the Scripture. So in the points of single life, keeping the commande­ments, free-will as you expound your selues, tradition, diuine assistance and some other. Likewise if you admit the words but vnder­stand them improperly, as in the matter of the reall presence, priesthood, absolution: for in such cases your consent is but verball, and vnder the words you conceale a different [Page 69] sense, whereby the common^* people are de­ceaued. Of the Fathers authorities I meane the same. If you admitte our doctrine plaine­ly, subscribe; and along to the next; if you do not, then attend to the plaine sense of the Scripture which I produce.Vide Co [...] lat. doctr [...] Cath. & Protest. [...] express [...] Scriptur [...] ver [...]s. [...] The obscu [...]st of those things which I am to propose is inuo­cation of Saincts: yet you dare not abide [...]he triall of that point by confessed testimonies of Antiquitie.

46. Touching the honour giuen to some things in animate for the Sāctitie which they haue, as reliques, Crosse, pictures, &c. you re­member that it is relatiue proportionate vnto the Sanctitie, not absolute as I tould you be­fore. This kinde of honour done to such things, You do wholly condemne.Debitu [...] honorem & vener [...]tionem &c. Con [...] Trid. se [...] 25. in greeke [...]. which word yo [...] haue inte [...] preted b [...] the [...]. Ni [...] Co [...]. in e [...] a [...] [...]pp. Calu. l. 1. Instit. c. 11. & 4. c. 9. Wee do giue it. To contra­dict your generall deniall, one example ou [...] of the Scriptere will serue, because it is the same reason in the rest. You esteeme the deade bo­dy of a Sainct, more then common earth▪ if [Page 70] therefore I shewe you that honour is in Scri­pture commanded to be giuen to the very ground in regard of relatiue sanctity, you will admit that in this point it makes for vs against you. In the third of Exodus our lord seeing that Moyses went forward to see, he called him out of the bush, Exod. 3. v. 4·5. Honour to the ground. and said approach not hither: loose thy shoes frō thy feete: for, the place whereon thou stan­dest is holie ground. Heere is command and ex­ample of honour donne to the ground, in re­gard of relatiue sanctitie, which it had. And if the ground might haue a kinde of honour, why not the dust and bones of Martyrs? why not the Crosse whereon Christ suffered? why not the place where he stood? why not his picture wherein he is represented? when Io­sue was in the field of the cittie of Ierico, he lifted vp his eies, Ios. 5. v. 13.14.15.16. and sawe a man standing against him, hol­ding a drawne sword, and he went vnto him ād said art thou ours or our aduersaries? who answeared, No. But I am a prince of the hoast of our lord, and now I come. Iosue, fell flat on the ground, and ado­ring he said, what speaketh my lord to his seruant? loose, VVee haue neede of a Mediator to Christ our Me­diator. S. Bern. serm. sig. magn. saith he, thy shoe from thy feete, for the place wherein thou doest stand is holie. And Iosue did as it was commanded him.

47. Next concerning Saincts and Angells: Though wee do not acknowledge them our Principall Mediators (for the chiefe Mediator [Page 71] is Iesus Christ,appar. vide Cyrill. l. 12. Thesaur. c. 10. God and man) Yet wee be­leeue that their subordinate mediation to speak with S. Bernard, and Intercession, and prayers in particular for vs, relying on the merites of our Sauiour, are profitable to vs, agreable to their happie estate and presidencie, and con­formable to the Scripture. You say No. Calu. 1. instit. c. 14. & 3. c. 20. Christus solus populi vo­ta ad Deum defert. ibid. §. 20. The Scripture. The Angell of our lord said, Zach. 1.12. See allso. Dan. 10. Inter­cession. O lord of hoasts how long wilt thou not haue mercie on Hierusalem, and on the citties of Iuda, with which thou hast bene angrie. And in the Reuelation of S. Iohn. The fower and twentie Seniours or Elders fell be­fore the lambe, Apoc. 5. v. 8 hauing euery one harpes and golden vialles full of odours which are the prayers of saincts. This place doth prooue subordinate Intercession not to be iniurious to the media­tion of Iesus Christ, but to be included in the order which he hath serte.Apoc. 4. v. 2. Consider further the circumstances of the vision to find out what persōs these Elders were. Behold, quoth S. Iohn, there was a throne set in heauen, v. 4. and vp­pon the the throne one sitting &c. And roūd about the throne 24 thrones: and vppon the thrones 24 Elders sitting, cloathed about in white garments, and on their heades crownes of gold. If now you will haue me to beleeue that these Elders, cloathed in white, an attire ofApoc. 3. [...] 4. saincts, and [Page 72] crowned after the2. Ti. 4.8 victorie as it seemes, with goldenApoc. 14. v. 14. crownes, ād sitting being now atIbid. v. 13. rest, vppon thrones round about the throne of Christ in heauen, are not saincts there raig­ning with Christ [...] ^* ouer the earth; or, if wee must beleeue that the Saincts whose prayers they present, be not holie men on earth: you must bring not a guesse but a theologicall demōstration for it. I was here to bring the letter, and I stick to it, and cānot be remoued vnles you shew cleere Scripture (for Tradition you looke not after) against the sēse I take it in, ād that it be so iud­ged, not by you (for I esteeme not your iudg­mēt) but by the Catholique Church, which is impossible as you knowe by that which she beleeueth in this point. Obserue this for the next,Angels offer prayers. Apoc. 8. v. 9. [...], ād others after, that I neede not repeate it. Another Angel came and stood before the alter, hauing a golden censa [...], and there were giuen to him many incenses, that he should giue of the prayers of all saincts vppon the alter of gold which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incenses of the prayers of the saincts ascen­ded [Page 73] frō the hand of the Angell before God. Thus for Angells and Saincts offering the prayers of the Church vnto God. and in this is inclu­ded essentiallie, that they do take them after their intellectuall manner, that is, vnderstand them. Heerevppon the Church doth call vppon them; and so did the Aūcient Fathers, whose Testimony and Spirit might haue suf­fised for our example. Wee beleeue allso that it is good to pray for the Deade. You say no. Calu. 3. Inst. c. 5. The Scripture. It is a holy and behouefull cogitation to pray for the deade, 2. Mac. 12.46. Prayer for the dead, S. Aug. l. 8. de ciuit. c. 36. that they may be released from their sinnes. I said the scripture because, to vse here S. Augustines words not my owne, Tbe bookes of the Ma­chabees not the Iewes but the Church esteemeth Canonicall. And what Spirit is to iudge which is scripture which not, you shall haue exami­ned hereafter at large.

48. Concerning the distinction of works, into some that are commanded, others that are not; which distinction you reiect. Wee beleeue that there are some works not com­manded, yet proposed by way of Counsell, for attaining of greater perfection. You say no,Matth 9. v. 21. Euan­gelicall Luth. de Vot. monast. Caluin. 4. Inst. ca. 13. The scripture If thou wilt he perfect goe sell the tbings which thou hast, and giue to the poore, and thou shalt haue treasure in heauen, and come fol­lowe [Page 74] me. Coun­sells. 1. Cor. 7. v. 25. Ibid. v. 40. [...], And the Apostle. Concerning virgines, I haue not a commandement from our lord, but counsell I giue. And againe, She, the vnma­ried, shall be more blessed, if she remaine so accor­ding to my Counsell. Wee beleeue that single life consecrated vnto God, is better then wed­locke. You say No. Luth. Serm. de Matr. Cal­uin. in 1. Cor. 7. The scripture He which ioyneth his virgin in matrimonie doth well and he which ioyneth her not doth better. 1. Cor. 7. v. 38. Wee beleeue that Religious profession vnder vowe is according to the word of God.Single life, Isay 19.21. Vowes. You say No. Luth de Vot. Monast. Calu. 4. Inst. c. 13. The scripture. They shall vowe vowes to our lord, and shall paie them. And we beleeue they are in conscience bound to pay their vowes. You say no. Luth. Cal. cit. The scripture Vowe ye and render to our lord God. Psal. 75.12. Let me note here by the way that you discouer your Church not be Gods, since it contemnes these things which God fore­tould would be in his, and approoues as good; and if the thing were to be tried by the Spirit in any man, any man of iudgment would ra­ther acknowledge the Spirit of S. Bennet and S. Francis, which God by miracles (recorded by saincts allso) hath witnessed to be from him, then your spirit vnderstanding this scri­pture oppositelie to their spirit.

49. As for the commandements. Wee be­leeue [Page 75] that he which will attaine to euerlastīg life, must keepe them.Mat. 19.17 Psal 14.2. Com­maun­demēts kept. You say no. Luth. in 3. Gal. Calu. in 5. Act. The scripture. If thou wilt enter into life keepe the commandements. lord who shall dwell in thy tabernacle, or who shall rest in thy holie hill? he that walketh without Spot, and wor­keth iustice. You say they are intollerable. Lut. de Libert. Christ. Calu. Antidot. Conc. Trid. sess. 6. c. 12. wee say, no. The scripture. His com­mandements are not heauie. wee beleeue that they may be, and haue bene obserued.1. Io. 5.3. You say No. Luth. in 4. Gal. calu. in 3. Rom. The scrip­tute. Zacharie and Elizabeth were both iust be­fore God, Luk. 16. [...]. Psal· 18. v. 8.12. walking in all the commandements and iustifications of our lord without blame. The lawe of our lord is immaculate cōuerting soules &c. the iudgments of our lord be true, for thy seruāt keepeth them: in keeping them there is much Reward. And of King Iosias the scripture saith that he re­turned to our Lord in all his hart, Psal. 118.55. 4. Kings. 23. v. 5. and in all his sowle, and in all his power according to all the law of Moyses. Thow sawest a fewe names in Sardis which haue Not defiled their garmēts: ād they shall walke with me in whites for they are worthy. Apoc. 3.4. I must adde one more for your cōfort who bragge that you knowe God better, and are more fa­miliarlie admitted to his secret counsells, and dearer to the spirit then other men:1. Io. 2 v. 3.4 &c. In this wee knowe that wee haue knowne him if wee obserue his [Page 76] commandements He that sayeth he knoweth him, Protestāts liers. the Apo­stles kept it. Io. 17.6. and keepeth not his commandements is a lier and the truth is not in him: but he that keepeth his word, in him in Verie Deede the charitie of God is perfi­ted. in this wee knowe that wee be in him.

50, Wee beleeue that there is iustice inherēt in men,Dan. 6.22. Iustice inherēr 1. Io. 3.7. [...] which is such in the sight and iudg­ment of God. You say No. Luth. in 3. Gal. calu· in 8. Rom. Daniel in the scripture. Be­fore him, God, iustice hath bene found in me. He that doth iustice, is iust, euen as he, christ, is iust. Moreouer you cannot deny that the Apostles and many other haue had charitie or loue,Rom. 13 10 and loue is vitall and inherent and is the fulnes of the lawe [...].Ibid. v. 9. Rom. 5.5, and He that loueth his neighbour hath Fulfilled the lawe. The Charitie of God is powered foorth in our harts by the holie Ghost which is giuen vs. Wee beleeue that a man which hath charitie may by Gods grace a­uoid sinne: You say No; Lut. in 2. Gal. calu. de Lib. ar. l. 1. all his actions you say are sinnes. The scripture.1. Io 3.9. Sinne. eschued 1. Io. 5.18. [...] habit. [...] Euery one that is borne of God com­mitteth not sinne, because his seede abideth in him. and againe, euery one which is borne of God sin­neth not: but the generation of God preserueth him and the wicked one toucheth him not.

51. Libertie or power to make choise of [Page 77] good to Saluation by the assistance of Gods grace, ād to eschewe that which is bad: Allso, to make choise of the better in good things occurring, wee acknowledge, You denie. Lut. art. 36. Cal. Cōf. f [...]d. p. 108. 2. Inst. c. 3.Deut. 30. v. 15.19. Libertie The scrip­ture. I haue set before thee this day, life and good, ād cōtrariwise death and euill, that thou maist loue our lord thy God ād walke in his waies, ād keepe his cō ­mādements &c. I haue proposed vnto you life and death, blessing and cursing: Choose therefore life, that both thou maiest liue and thy seede. 1. Cor. 7. [...]7 And the Apostle, He that hath determined in his hart being setled, not hauing Necessitie, but hauing Power of his owne Will, and hath iudged this in his hart to keepe his virgin, doth well. Therefore he that ioyneth his virgin in Matrimonie doth well, and he that ioyneth her not doth better. Let me adde one more out of Genesis,Gen. 4 7. Vide S. Aug. l. 15. de ciuit. c▪ 7. Ps. 118. v. 112. S. Ie­rom. [...]. 8. Sept. ibid. 1. Cor. 9.2 [...] The lust thereof shall be vnder thee and thou shalt haue Dominion ouer it. wee beleeue that good works may be done in contēplation of a reward, or crowne: You say No. Luth. in Fest. OO. SS. Calu. in Antid. sess. 6. c. 16. Dauid. I haue inclined my hart to do thy iustifications foreuer, for Reward. ād the The Apostle. Euery one that striueth for maistrie refraineth himselfe from all things▪ and they certes that they may receaue a corruptible crowne: but wee an incorruptible. wee beleeue that mē haue reward for their works giuen them by Gods [Page 78] iustice: You say No. Luth in 2. Gal. Caluin in 4. Rom.Matt. 16.27. Reward and Merit, Apoc. 22.12. The Scripture. The sonne of man shall come in the glorie of his Father with his Angells, and then will he Render to euerie one according to his works. Behold I come quicklie and my Reward is with me, to Render to euery man according to his works. Thou sawest a fewe names in Sardis, which haue not defiled their garmente, and they shall walke with me in whites, Apoc. 3.4. because they are Worthie [...] because they merit and de­serue it.2. Tim. 4.8 And the Apostle. There is laid vs for me a Crowne of Iustice, which our lord will Render to me in that day a iuste Iudge; and not onelie to me but to them allso that loue his comming. Wee be­leeue that a man may increase in Iustice, ac­cording to that in the Reuelation he that is iust let him be iustified yet and let the holie be san­ctified yet, Apoc. 22.11. And wee beleeue that men are not iustified by faith onely,Ia, 2.24. workes iustifie. but allso by works done by the Assistance and helpe of Gods grace. You say, By faith only. Luth. in 2. Gal. Cal. in Antid. sess. 6. c. 9. The Scripture. A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie.

52. VVee beleeue that vppon S. Peeter, by grace made a Rocke, the Church was built: You say no. Luth. in 16. Matth. Caluin. ibid. The Scripture:Mat. 16.18 Prima­cie. Thou art Peeter, a rocke, and vppon this rocke will I build my Church: In the Syriacke in which lāguage our Sauiour spake [Page 79] the thinge is yet cleerer, for in both places for that wee reade Peeter, and Rocke, is the same word Cephas, thus: thou art Cephas, and vppon this Cephas will I build my Church. Moreouer the circumstances of the text, and the connexion of the speache doe conuince that the Church was built on Peeter; and the Fathers, vnpar­tiall Iudges, so vnderstood it: witnesse your owne men (for here I am not to alleage An­tiquity) D [...]naeus:Dan. Con [...] 3.16.277, pessimè Zanc. de Eccles. c. 9. c. 8. col. 94▪ The Fathers interpreted naughtilie those words of Christ, Matth. 16. Thou art Peeter &c. of the person of Peeter: Zanchius another greate Protestant, The Fathers expo­sition, vppon this Rocke that is, vppon Peeter, is not admitted, and Luther the great Apostle of Protestancie: Here all, Lut. in 2. Pet. c. 5. fol▪ 490. either Fathers or Doctors as many as hetherto haue interpreted Scriptures haue stambled, as when, that of Matth. 16. Thou art Peeter &c. They interprete of the Pope. Wee beleeue that one of the Apostles peculiarly was made Pastor of the Church. You say, No. Luth. in Assert. art. 25. Calu. 4. Inst. c. 6. The Scripture Peeter feede My Sheepe. Io. 21.18▪ Wee be­leeue that the Apostles, and their Successors had power to forgiue and to retaine sinnes: You say, No. Calu. 3. Inst. c. 3. & 4. c. 19. Luther here so ouerlasheth ōthe affirmatiue side that in his booke de Clauibus he auoucheth the keies to apertaine to all Christians equallie [Page 80] euery way.Omnibus modis Luthers Ghostly Father▪ And in another place (de abrog. mi. pr.) he houldes that if the Deuil should ab­solue, it were valid. Dum vitant stulti vitia &c. In the scripture power to forgiue sinnes (I do not say to declare them forgiuen, or hidden and not imputed as you mince it, but to forgiue and detaine Sinnes) is giuen to Men only, and to some,Io 20. v. 22 Absolu­tion. not to all. The scripture. Whose sinnes you shall forgiue they are forgiuen them, and whose you shall retaine they are retained. Wee beleeue that power was giuen to S. Peeter and to the Church to release men by way of indulgen­ce, from temporall punishmēt remaining due for sinne: You say No. Luth. Cap. Babil. Cal­uin. l. vnic. Inst. cap. 9. The scripture. VVhatsoeuer thou Peeter shalt binde on earth shall be bound allso in the heauens: Matt 16 19 Indul­gences. and VVhatsoeuer thou shalt loose in earth, it shall be loosed allso in the heauens.

53. In the matter of the Eucharist, the Pro­testāt schoole is diuided about the reall Pre­sence, and you follow Caluine: So do Iewell, Perkins, Rainolds, Wittaker, Bilsō, White, &c. And howsoeuer some of your fellowes in words admit a reall Presence, being forced there vnto by the arguments of our men, yet they allso when they are lookt into, are essen­tially Caluinists in this point, beleeuing no more that Christ is in the signes, or in the [Page 81] formes of breade and wine, then a mans lands are in the Chest where his writings be, or in his fathers will and testament whereby they were made his, which is VVhites example. VVee beleeue that in the Eucharist, vnder the accidents of breade and wine there is the bodie and blood of Iesus Christ; You say No. So Iohn Caluins schoole. Our sauiour in the scripture. This is my bodie; Mat 26. v. 27.28. Reall Presen­ce. This is my bloode. VVee beleeue that the breade which our Sauiour gaue, was in sub­stāce flesh, the verie same with that which was giuen on the crosse, for the redemption of the world: You say No: it was not in substan­ce flesh but plaine breade. Calu. schoole. Our Sauiour in the scripture.Io. 6 51. [...] &c Luk. 22.19▪ The breade which I will giue is my flesh, which I will giue for the life of the world. This is my bodie which is giuen, for you. VVe beleeue that the drinke in the Cuppe, in forme of wine, was shed for vs, and therefore was in substance bloode, and not wine: You say No, it was meere wine. Calu. Schoole. The Scriprure.Luk. 22.20. Io. 6.55. This is the chalice the newe Testament in my bloode [...] which Chalice is shed for you, My flesh is meate indeede, and my blood is drinke indeede. VVe beleeue that the Church is to eate the flesh of our Sauiour; and to drinke his bloode. You say No. Calu. schoole The Scripture. Vnles you eate the flesh of the [Page 82] sonne of man, and drinke his bloode you shall not haue life in you. Wee beleeue that the Christiā church doth Sacrifice and offer vnto God pu­bliklie an Oblation euery where. You say No, There is is no Sacrificing or offering of any publike Oblatiō since Christ offered him­selfe at Hierusalem on the crosse. Luth. de for. Mis. pro Eccl. wit. Calu. 4. Inst. c. 18. The Scripture From the rising of the Sonne euen to the going downe, Màlae 111 Oblatiō great is my name among the Gentiles and in [...]uery place there is sacrificing and there is offered to my name a Cleane Oblation, because my name is greate amonge the Gentiles saith the lord of hosts. Is is prettie to see how you offer to interprete this place of your works, as if they were the cleane Oblation here spoken of and opposed to the publick visible Sacrifices of the Iewes, when as notwithstanding you teach and maintaine that all your works are fowle and impure;Luth. de bo [...] oper. fol. 581. Gal. l. 1 de lib. arb. p. 141. All your iustice or righteousnes as the cloath of a mē ­strued woman; all your fairest and best actiōs mortall sinnes. These, forsooth, are that which God himselfe esteemes a cleane Obla­tion. These are the rare Sacrifice which could not be found amonge the Iewes. Further, wee beleeue that our Sauiour being a Priest according to the Order of Melchisedech, Psal. 109.4 Heb. 5.6. did offer his bodie and bloode after an vnbloody manner [Page 83] before his passion, for his Church, and for the remission of Sinnes: And that he did ordaine it should be continued and frequented in the Church, which is to offer and institute a Pro­pitiatorie Sacrifice. You say No. Luth. de Capt. Bab. Cal. 4. Inst. c. 18. & 1. Cor. 9. The Scripture This is my bodie which is giuen for you. [...] which is broken for you. Do This. Luk. 22.19 1. Cor. 11.24. Mat. 26.28 Luk. 22.20. Propi­tiatorie Sacrifi­ce. This is my bloode of the newe Testament [...] which is shed for many vnto remission of Sinnes. [...], which trāslated word by word is, This the chalice, the newe Testament in my bloode, which chalice is shed for you. In which sentence the word signifying effusion, [...], doth not accord with the word [...] which sig­nifieth blood, but with the word [...], [...]. Mat. 26.28 Mar. 14.24. Luk. 22 20. and of the Body, [...] Luk. 22.19 [...] 1. Cor. 11 24. which signifieth the Chalice, as euery Synta­xian knowes; whereby the sense is, This the Chalice which chalice is shed for you. And since you cannot exclude the tyme present because the word [...] imports it, and all the Greeke texts of the Euangelists agree in it, it is cleere that then, before the passion, at the last supper, the chalice was shed for the Church, and for remission of Sinnes, by Iesus Christ a Priest according to the Order of Melchise­dech; And this wee call an vnblody and pro­pitiatory [Page 84] Sacrifice. Wee beleeue; that vnder Iesus Christ our high Priest there are Priests in the newe Testament▪ You say No. Luth. Ab­rog. Mis. pri. Calu. 4. Inst. c. 18.Isay 66. v. 19.20.21. Priests Episcopi & Presby­teri pro­priè iam in Ecclesia vocantur Sacerdotes 8 Aug. li. 20 de Ciu. c. 10. The Scripture▪ I will send of them that shall be saued to the Gen­tiles into the sea, into Africke and Lydia: into Ita­lie and Greece; to the Ilands far of &c. And I will take of them to be Priests and Leuites saith our lord. wee beleeue the Apostles, and their suc­cessors were by Christs institution, for a per­petuall memorie and representation of his death and passion, to doe that which our Sa­uiour did at his last Supper, that is (as I haue declared by the Gospell) to offer vnbloody Sa­crifice. You say No. Luth. Calu. cit. The Scrip­ture.Luk. 22.19. Doe this for a commemoration of me. wee beleeue that there is allso in the Christian Church, an Alter: these three things Sacrifice, Priest, and Alter hauing a reference of coexi­stence. You say No. Luth. for. Mis. Eccl. Wit. Calu. 4. inst. cit. & 1. Cor. 9: The Scripture. In that daye there shall be an Alter of our Lord in the middest of the land of Egypt. Isay 19.19 Altars. Heb. 13, 10 And the Apo­stle. VVee haue an Alter whereof they haue not power to eate who serue the tabernacle.

54. Wee beleeue that Traditions are to be obserued, whether receaued from the Apo­stles in writing, or els by word of mouth: You say No. Luth. Post. in fest. sancti Steph. Calu. 4. [Page 85] inst. c. 8. &. Antid. sess. 4 Kemn. ibid. The Scri­pture Hold the traditions which you haue learned, 2. Thess. 2.15. [...], Tradi­tions. whether it be by word, or by our Epistle. Wee be­leeue that Gods word shall by diuine Assi­stance be continuallie deliuered by word of Mouth, and openlie be still professed. You acknowledge no infallible deliuerie of true doctrine by word of Mouth. Luth. Calu. cit, & Beza not. Eccl. whitt. cont. 2. q. 4. c. 3. & q. 5. c. 17. The Scripture▪ Isay 59.2 [...]. My words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy Mouth, and out of the mouth of thy seede, and out of the mouth of the seede of thy seede saith our lord from this pre­sent and for euer. The same place your brother Puritan, doth allso contradict, in denying a perpetuall visible Church. Wee beleeue that the Church is assisted by the holy Ghost to all truth. You say No And so do all Hereticks. Our Sauiour in the Scripture.Io. 14.16. & 16. v. 13 I will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for euer, the Spirit of Truth; he shall teach you all truth;

55. Thus I am come in fine, to the first againe which doth confirme all the rest, Remēber what I said in the be­gining of this Chapter. in so much that what I haue here shewed, in the last pla­ce out of Scripture, doth prooue, that the Church doctrine deliuered by word of Mouth is all true, whether it be written downe in the Bible, or be not: for these places of Tra­dition [Page 86] by word; the word of God euer in the mouth of the Church, and the Spirit suggesting, and teaching all truth, are not limitted in the Scrip­ture to writing, as in the text, you see. And therefore, now I repeate my argument made in the begining of this Chapter. If the Scrip­ture doth formallie auouch our doctrine, and denie yours in the maine points wherein wee differ, Arg. it is euidentlie vnpossible for you, or any man breathing to make it euident by the Scripture that the Apostles and primitiue Church were of your Religion not of ours, or, that yours is true, ours false: But the Scrip­ture doth auouch our doctrine, and denie yours in the maine pointes wherein we dif­fer [...] as I haue showne: Therefore it is euiden­tly vnpossible for you or any man breathing to make it euident by the Scripture that the Apostles and primitiue Church were of your religion, not of [...]urs, or, that yours is true, ours false.

56. Now since your doctrine is thus con­trary to Gods word, and consequentlie, your spirit being rubde vppō this tuchstone being found to be counterfait, it were not amisse to looke about from whence you had your do­ctrine, and whence your Spirit came. Which thing I could finde out without much adoe, and would set downe here, but that I haue allreadie bene to longe. I will therefore onely \ [Page 87] shewe you the way to finde it, and so con­clude. Looke out the place where Gods com­mandements are neuer kept but esteemed vn­possible: where all actions are sinnes: and sin­nes neuer remitted or wiped cleane away: where there is no Indulgence or remissiō of any paine due to sinne, no works of supererogatiō acknow­ledged, no state of perfectiō, no Merit of works, no Libertie to doe well, no prayer for the deade, no Communion with saincts in heauen, nor, prayers made vnto them, where Priestlie fun­ction is abhorred, holy Sacrifice blasphemed: and the very Images of Christ and his Saincts loathed and detested. Where there is no Iusti­ce inherent, no constant rectitude or infallibi­lity of iudgment, no cōtinual Visibilitie of sacred Profession, no Vnitie in Religion: but a confu­sed admittance of all that are against the Ca­tholique: of Wicklefists and Hussites,Luther doth con­fesse it in his Booke de missa pri. tom. 7. fol. 228. VVittemb a. 1558. See Luthers life by Mr Brereley c [...] 1. [...] 2. and Arians and Athiests ād all people that will ob­stinatly refuse confession of their Sinnes, works of pietie, and the common Creede, and make thē ­selues, their owne wittes the Iudge of all, looke out this place ād the rest you will finde there. I haue heard, and reade, and doe beleeue, that the spirit which instructed Luther your Ma­ster, came from thence.

THE FIRST CHAPTER. Shewing by authoritie of holy scripture that the true Christian Church is Catholike for tyme and place.

1. SINCE your Church cannot be prooued to be Catholicke or vniuersall in regard of a generall communion which the world and perpetuall visibilitie, you pretend there is no necessitie of any such latitude of place or tyme: and would perswade vs that it is Catholique for doctrine, because it holds the three Creeds, with Baptisme ād the Sup­per: and is not tied to one tyme or Nation, but such as may be in any: which you call ne­gatiue vniuersalitie for tyme and place, and for doctrine positiue. Thou seemest to speake acu­telie [Page 70] (said S. Augustine to Vincentius a man of the Rogation Heresie, and your Master in the way of defending your Religion as it see­mes) when thou doest interprete the name Catholi­que, S. Aug. ep. 48, by the obseruation of all diuine Precepts and all Sacraments, and not of the communion of the whole world &c. but indeed the thing which thou doest indeuour to persuade vs is that onelie Roga­tians haue remained who are rightlie to be called Catholiques by the obseruation of all the diuine lawes and all Sacraments, and that you onelie are the men in whom the sonne of man may finde faith when he comes. Pardon vs: wee beleeue it not. And afterwards in the same Epistle, you are with vs in baptisme, in the Creede, in the rest of our lords Sacraments: In the spirit of Vnitie, and in the band of peace, and finallie in the Catholique church you are not with vs. As that Rogatian, so you in your interpretation would seeme acute, but vnto such onelie as neither knowe Scri­pture, nor the state of the Question. It is true that the doctrine of the true Church is per­fect, and the Obiect of her faith entire in it selfe: but in your books and beleefe it is mangled and diuided so, that part one­lie is there allowed, as hereafter shall appeare. The Question is not here about that, but about the Church: that is, about [Page 75] a certaine congregation of men, and about the Vniuersalitie of such a Congregation, not negatiue, as you would haue it, but positiue, of tyme and place. And because you admit not a positiue vniuersalitie, that is, a being of the Church in all Nations, and in all tymes, I will demonstrate vnto you by Scripture the Vniuersalitie of the true Church which soeuer it be, whether the Roman or any other: of which further point I will not dis­pute in this Chapter. And allthough the scripture be full of testimonies for this vniuer­salitie, I will alleadge a fewe onelie, ād those in order out of Moyses, the Psalmes, Prophets and Gospell; which being well looked into, will suffice.

2. But first lest you rhinke you are to open your eies to looke on a Church, and it inui­sible, by reason that in the Creede wee be­leeue the Church, you must consider that the eie of faith, ād the corporall eie may both finde their obiects in one and the same thing. Wee reade the Scripture ād beleeue the sense: The Apostles saw our Sauiour, and beleeued he was the Sonne of God: The faithfull assē ­bled when the holie Ghost came amongst them, were visible, and yet they where the Church. First therefore in a word I will decla­re that the Church of God, which soeuer be, is [Page 90] visible: secondlie I will shewe you the great­nes of it, which is the thing I principallie doe intend in this Chapter: thirdlie the durance or perpetuitie, that you may frame in your vn­derstanding the true conceipt of the Church of God.

3. And first touching the visibilitie, or to speake yet more generallie touching the sen­sible perceptibility of the thing wee speake of, it is cleere that, that which makes a continuall noise, Visibili­tie. and is alwaies speaking, and in all mens eies, and cannot be hid, is a thing sensible vnto men that haue eies and eares; and if this thing be in all Nations and at all tymes, it is sensible to all the world; Now this is the condition of the Church of God,Psal. 18. v. 6. Isa. 52. v. 10 which soeuer it be, which I prooue thus by Scripture He hath put his ta­bernacle in the Sunne saith Dauid, and Isaie, Our lord hath prepared his holie arme in the eies of all the Gētiles, and all the endes of the earth shall see the saluation of our God. They of the west shall feare the name of our Lord, and they of the rising of the sunne his glorie, when he shall come as a vio­lent streame, 59. v. 19.20 21. which the spirit of our Lord driueth, and there shall come the Redeemer to Sion and to them that returne from iniquitie in Iacob saith our Lord. This is my couenant with them saith our Lord. My spirit that is in thee, and my words that I haue put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy [Page 91] mouth, and out of the mouth of thy seede, and out of the mouth, of the seede of thy seede saith our Lord, 62. v. 6. Mat. 5. v. 15 See S. Aug. enar. in ps. 47. from this present and for euer Vppon thy walls Ie­rusalem I haue appointed watchmen: All the day and all the night for euer they shall not hold their peace. You are the light of the world: a cittie cannot be hid. situated on a montaine.

4. I omitte the allegation of more authori­ties, because hereafter I shall speake more of this matter, and these fewe declare, and proo­ue manifestlie the truth of that which I said. I goe therefore on to the chiefe point inten­ded in this Chapter which is to shewe Gods eternall and inuiolable ordinance about the Churches vniuersalitie; Vniuer­salitie. Gal. 3. And to begin with Moyses; wee haue in him the promise of an ample Posteritie to old Abraham, Father of Beleeuers made by God himselfe, and expo­unded by S. Paul of the Church of Christ,Gen. 22. v. 17. I will blesse thee, and I will multiplie thy seede as the starres of heauen, and as the sand that is in the sea shore: thy seed shall possesse the gates of their eni­mies, and in thy seed shall be blessed all the Nations of the earth. This did God then confirme with an oath: and proceeding in the promise,28. v. 14. con­firmed it againe to Iacob afterward: thy seed shall he as the dust of the earth, thou shalt be dila­ted to the west and to the east, and to the north, and to the south, and in thee, and in thy seede, all the [Page 74] tribes of the earth shall be blessed. Next in the psalmes wee heare God the Father saying vnto his sonne our Sauiour,Psal. 2. v. 8 aske of me and I will giue the Gentiles for thine inheritance, and thy possession the ends of the earth: and the Prophet adds in an other psalme, all the ends of the earth shall remember and be conuerted vnto our Lord, 21. v. 28.29 and all the families of the Gen­tiles shall adore in his sight All Natiōs whatsoeuer thou hast made shall come and shall adore before thee o lord. 65. v. 6.

5. Among the Prophets, Isaie. In the lat­ter daies the mountaine of the house of our lord shall be prepared in the top of mountaines, and shall be raised aboue the little hilles, Isa. 2 v. 2.3 and all Na­tions shall flowe vnto it: and many people shall goe and shall saie, come and let vs goe vp to the mount of our lord, and to the house of the God of Iacob: and he will teach vs his waies, and wee shall walke in his paths. And againe: vppon thee o Ie­rusalem shall our lord arise, and his glorie shall beseene vppon thee: and the Gentiles shall walke in thy light and kings in the brightnes of the rising: 60. v. 2.3.4 5. lift vp thine eies round about and behold, all these are gathered together: they are come vnto thee: thy sonnes shall come from a farre, and thy dau­ghters shall arise from thy side: then shalt thou see and shalt abound, and thy hart shall wonder and be enlarged when the multitude of the sea shall be [Page 79] conuerted vnto thee, the strengh of Gentiles shall come to thee. After him Daniel: I beheld in the vision of the night, and loe with the clouds of hea­uen there came in as it were the sonne of man, Dan. 7. v. 13.14. and he came euen to the auncient of daies and in his sight they offered him; and he gaue him power, and honour and kingdome: and all people, tribes, and tongues shall serue him, his power is an eternall power that shall not be taken awaie, and his king­deme shall not be corrupted. The like is in the rest: I adde onelie Malachie which is the last, and neerest to our Sauiours tyme: from the ri­sing of the sunne euen to the going downe, Mal. 1. v. 11 great is my name among the Gentiles, and in euerie place there is sacrificing, and there is offered vnto my name a cleane Oblation, because my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the lord of hostes.

6. As the old Testament, so the newe doth establish the foresaid vniuersalitie of the Church, and our Sauiour doth giue com­mission vnto his disciples, and to their Suc­cessors to raise such a one. All power, saith he, is giuen me in heauen and in earth going therefore teach yee all Nations, Mat. 28. v. 19.20. baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the sonne ād of the holie Ghost, teaching them to obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue commaunded you: and behold I am with you all daies euen to the consummation of the world. Going into the world preach the Gospell to all crea­tures. [Page 94] And in another,Mar. 16. v. 15. he declares the issue of the foresaid propheticall speaches, against such as would haue imagined they were cōditionall speaches onelie. These are the words which I spake to you, Luk. 24. v. 44.45.46 when I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fullfilled which are written in the lawe of Moyses; and the prophets, and the psalmes of me: then he opened their vnderstanding that they might vnderstand the scriptures; and he said vnto them, that so it is written, and so it be­houed Christ to suffer, and to rise againe the third daie from the dead: and penance to be preached in his name, and remission of sinnes to all Nations begining at Ierusalem. I neede not adde any more: for by this, is aboundantlie showne that the Christian Church was by the inten­tiō of God the Father, and of his sonne Iesus Christ, to be in the communion of all Natiōs, and Catholique in this positiue sense: and that all this infalliblie was to be, and would be fullfilled. And thus much noe Iewe, nor Christian▪ turne about which waie he will can denie.

7· Now further, least one should foolishlie conceaue that in the primitiue tyme it had gotten to this amplitude fullie, and then de­caied, I proceede and shewe that the same Church is vniuerfall for tyme likewise; and in­deed, this tergiuersation might be refuted by [Page 95] experience, because the world knowes that many Nations came into the Church since that tyme (which is S. Augustines argument against the Donatists, who thought by that meanes to deceaue the Catholiques, and de­lude their arguments of vniuersalitie) but here I will prooue it by Scripture: And first I might vrge to this purpose the testimonies allreadie cited, both because the extent of the Church vnto all Nations doth consequentlie reach vnto all tymes:Perpe­tuitie. all Nations and people being not at one tyme conuerted, and Christian; as allso, because some doe expresse a perpetuitie; but the Scripture being full, I will adde more. God the Father in the Psalmes, speaking of his sonne, amongst other things, saith.Psal. 88. v. 28.29.37▪ 38, I will put him as the first begotten high aboue the kings of the earth, and I will keepe my mercie vnto him foreuer, and my testament faithfull vnto him: I will put his seede for euer and euer, and his throne as the daies of heauen &c. His seede shall continue for euer, and his throne as the sunne in my sight, and as the moone perfect foreuer. Isa. 62. v. 3▪ 4. And of the Church, thou shalt be a crowne of glorie in the hād of our Lord, and a diademe of a kingdome in the hand of thy God: thou shalt be no more called For­saken, and thy land shall be no more called Deso­late: but thou shalt be called my will in her: and thy land inhabited, because it hath well pleased our [Page 96] Lord in thee: and thy land shall be inhabited. I will make a league of peace to them, an euerlasting coue­nant shall be to them: Ezech. 37. v. 26.27.28. and I will forme them, and will giue my sanctification in the middest of them foreuer; and my tabernacle shall be in them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people; and the Gentiles shall knowe that I am the Lord the Sanctifier of Israel, when my sanctification shall be in the middest of them for euer. The God of hea­uen will raise vp a kingdome; Dan. 2. v. 44. that shall not be dis­sipated for euer, and this kingdome shall not be deliuered to an other people: and it shall breake in peeces and shall consume all those kingdomes, and it selfe shall stand for euer. To which the newe Testamēt doth consent.Luk. 1. v. 33 Mat. 16. v. 19. he, Christ, shall raigne in the house of Iacob for euer, and of his kingdome there shall be noe end. Vppon this rocke will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it. 28. v. 20. I am with you all daies euen to the consummation of the world. Ioh. 14. v. 15 I will aske my fa­ther and he will giue you another paraclete, that he may abide, S. Aug. de vnit. Eccl. c. 13. Mat. 13. v. 30. with you foreuer &c. The like is in many other places, amongst which S. Augu­stine doth vrge that of S. Matthew, let both growe till haruest; because our Sauiour doth expound himselfe by the field to haue vnder­stoode the world, by the good seed▪ the children of that kingdome, v. 37. &c. by the cockle the children of the wicked one, by the haruest the end of the world, [Page 97] so that both are to growe vntill then. Lastlie, that I leaue not the Apostle of the Gentiles out in this busines, He (Christ) gaue some A­postles, Ephes. 4. v▪ 11.12. and some Prophets and other some Euan­gelists, and other some Pastors, and Doctors, to the consummation of the Saincts, vnto the worke of the ministerie, vnto the edifying of the bodie of Christ: vntill wee meete all in the Vnitie of faith and knowledge of the sonne of God.

8. This congregation,Vnitie. Io. 10.16, or Church notwithstanding the foresaid greatnesse ad extension is but one, being one fold, and one bodie, vnder one Pastor and one head Iesus Christ:Ephes. 4▪ v. 16. of whome (saith the Apostle) the whole bodie compact and knit together by all iuncture of subministration, according to the operation into the measure of eue­rie member, maketh the increase of the bodie vnto the edifying of it selfe in Charitie. By which words wee are taught likewise that this bodie is heterogeneall, that is,See more of this in the 3. Book. 6 c▪ consisting of diuers kinds of parts, as mans bodie is, whereunto this mysticall bodie is compared: hauing in it, eies, mouth, feete, and the like in proportion:1. Cor. 12▪ which may be vnderstoode more fullie out of the Epistle of the same Apostle to the Co­rinthians.

9. And thus farre I haue proceeded in the Scripture: shewing you there the Church of God, built on a rocke, against which the gates [Page 98] of hell cannot preuaile, a perpetuall kingdome if you beleeue God, that shall not be dissipated, corrupted, deliuered to another people: that shall stand for euer, shall haue no end, a people that shall be no more forsaken, no more desolate. They shall haue the Spirit with them, abiding with them, not departing from them, and Iesus Christ with them all dayes to the consummation of the world, and the Sanctification of God in the mid­dest of them for euer. Into their communion shall come the streingth of Nations, the multi­tude of the sea, all kings, and people, and tongues: all the families of the Gentiles, all Nations what soeuer. They shall be dilated to the East, West, North, and South: and shall be multiplied as the dust of the earth, as the sand of the Sea, as the starres in heauen. They shall be as the sunne in the sight of God, and as the daies of heauen. They shall haue pastors and Doctors to the worlds end: the word of God shall neuer out of their mouthes, and thy shall not hold their peace daie nor night for euer.

10. Compare this now to your Church, to your companie: which wee haue searched and hunted after in the former booke, but could not get tidings of, in all the world be­fore Luther. I, in the meane tyme will on fur­ther to looke out this Church of God. But first I would haue you to note, that as in the [Page 91] naturall bodie there are many superfluous materiall parts of flesh, fatte, and some other eauen in the hands, eares, and eies (as you see in men that are grosse) which parts though they be coherent now, are not resumed all in the resurrection, because they would extēd and increase the bodie vnto more then the iust bignes of the man, and beyond the origi­nall proportion of the soule: So in this mysti­call bodie of Iesus Christ, are many parts, which will not rise with it vnto glorie: and therfore are multiplied aboue the number which is written in the booke of life: yet being called (as many are called, fewe chosen) for a tyme they doe beleeue; but they fall againe before they die. Another thing you may note if you please: that as the naturall bodie recea­uing the sowle when the principall parts are prepared, doth growe and flourish, and after­wards looseth againe the exteriour beautie in ould age: So the Church receaued the Spirit when, by the instruction of the sonne of God, the chiefe parts (the Apostles) were prepared, and then did extend it selfe in bignes, and flourished, but in her ould age, in the daies of Antichrist she will loose her exteriour beau­tie and maiestie, and be greeuouslie afflicted, and persecuted for a^*tyme as S. Iohn doth fo­retell. But now to finde this Church.

THE SECOND CHAPTER. The Catholique Church assigned.

11. HAuing seene the picture of the Catho­lique Church as in Scripture it hath beene drawne by God himselfe; it is not hard for him that will cast an eie vpon the world [Page 101] and compare this picture with the communi­ties he finds there, to discouer among all Churches and congregations which is the Catholique, or to learne it if he will but aske the question of any man. For all,S. Aug. de vera relig. c 7. and euen Heretiques ād Schismatiques as S. Augustine longe agoe did obserue, when they talke not with those of their owne sect; but with others, do, whether they will or no, call no other Catholique but the Catholicke: because they cannot otherwise be vnderstood vnles they designe her by that name, which the whole world calles her by. Men generally being demaunded which are Catholiques point at vs: and being asked which Church is the Catholique, do direct vnto that which is in cō ­munion with the Roman See. This was knowne to be the Catholique Church in the tyme of S. Paul: this was acknowledged to be the Catholique Church in the tyme of S. Augu­gustine, and S. Gregory, and euer since, and is now. Aske all Christians such only excepted as your selues condemne for heretiques, and they will tell you so. Aske Iewes and Pagans and they will tell you this is the Church of Iesus Christ: aske your fellowes White, Cowell, and such others, and they will send you to this.

12. If a man should haue come to Luther [Page 100] when he did looke round about for compa­nie, and found none of his opinion, and should haue said vnto him, Sir Luther, in the Bible there is an ample description of a per­peruall Catholique Church, I pray you which is it, that I may be Christian in communion of that Church; Your Doctor for his hart could haue directed to no other, then to that Congregation which then was in communion with the Bysshop of Rome. For to you, he could not haue directed him, because, poore men, you were not in the world as yet, with your Religion, nor euer deserued the name of Catholique, as in the former booke to your confusion hath beene seene. To haue said that he; a sole man, was the Catholique Church, which the Scri­pture speakes of, had bene to multiplie himselfe ouer the world into many Na­tions, and into millions of men at once. To the Iewes or Pagans he could with no face haue sent him, and had he done so, they would haue giuen him the lie. It rests therefore that Luther, and so Caluin, so Iewell, must haue dire­cted him to vs, and haue tould him, the Catholique Church is that, which hath and still had communion with the Roman See.

[Page 101]13. I knowe some of your fellowes would send a man to the Grecians, and some fur­ther to the Aethiopians: but these are not Protestants, as the Grecians declare them selues, and by the Aethiopians doctrine he may see, that is not blind. Neither hath the Grecian beleefe in those things wherein they differ from the Church of Rome, euer bene in the generall communion of the Christian world, and therefore Grecisme is not, nor euer was Catholique: and the same it is of Aethio­pians, and all others. Another shift you haue, and this is to say the Catholique Church is inuisible, among the Romans, the Grecians, Aethiopians, Germans, and others, but lies hid. This would trouble the man surely, for how should he be in­structed by her, and imbrace her commu­nion vnles he could find her? and how should he finde her, if she did not appeare but were inuisible? moreouer he would say, that the Church which the Scripture hath described is there also declared to be perpetually visible, with gates euer open, the Pastors alwayes exercising their holy fun­ction, and Gods word in their mouth euer: for this Church he doth inquire, shewe him this Church and he will trouble you no [Page 104] longer, for the rest he shall haue there. A third shift is to send him to the primitiue Church, and to tell him that indeede, then was this communion with all Nations, this ample Church which the Scripture doth commend, was then, but since it decaied; and now you are building it againe. This iourney were to longe for him; he is not able to reade bookes, otherwise he would not trouble you, nor your Congregation at all, for he should easilie find the thing himselfe: where­fore that he may be directed by the iudgment of other men better seene in that busines, he desires to know, which ād where is the presēt Catholique Church, and by that Church he will be directed about former tymes; he desi­res therefore D. Luther to tell him where the Catholique Church is now, for such a perpe­tuall one the Bible speakes of. This question must be answered; the man that doth aske it may be any that is in England, for example, and it might haue bene answered in Lurhers time who was your Master, for which reason I tie the question to that tyme for the more perspicuitie, and leaue the man with you to answer for your Master.

14. Your fellowes finding here no way to flie the question do confesse, that the knowne Church of the world in Luthers tyme, that [Page 105] which had communion with the Pope, was the Catholique Church, and labour to finde her in errour and Apostasie. So White, Field and other of your compa­nions, so Luther, so Caluin. Of errours I will speake hereafter, I looke now for the Church only, because this is to be found first before we dispute of further matters. And thus I vrge. That Church which all the world doth say is the catholique church, wee likewise Arg. 1 if wee will not be ridiculouslie sensles must beleeue to be the Catholique church, as wee must beleeue that is Rome which the world ¹¹ [Page 104] sayth is Rome, and, that London, which the world sayth is London: But the whole world sayth that the company of Christians in commu­nion with the See of Rome is the catholique church, for so your fellowes, so your Mas­ters, so wee, so Iewes, so Pagans: and no other can be found: wherefore since Gods word and promise of a perpetuall and vniuer­sall Church must needs be true, wee must be­leeue that it is this.

15. Moreouer the Religion which you call Papistrie, is now spred ouer the face of the earth, in allmost all Nations, and was confes­sedly the generall Religion of the christian world before Luther, for many hundred Arg. 2 yeares together, wherefore this Religion is catholique, ād this companie the catholique church of God. You answere, first, that the Greciās agreed not with vs. But this makes not for Protestancie: And moerouer in your sense it is false: for though they haue not beene cō ­tinuallie in our communion all this tyme, yet in this time they haue beene in our com­munion. And so haue the Armeniās, ād others too: which is all that I haue said, and sufficient for to demonstrate that our communiō hath beene catholique in the tyme I haue spokē of. And if you will pleade for thē that allso their Schisme hath bene somtymes thus catholique [Page 105] I answere as before, that Grecisme was neuer generally the faith of Christendome, nor any other faith whatsoeuer, but that only which wee professe: not the Grecian I say, not the Aethiopian, not the Armenian, not the Be­rengarian, the Waldesian, the Lutheran, the Caluinian, none at all: and herein the Histo­ries of all Countries, and the memories of all Nations beare me witnesse. Secondly, you say that Mahomet hath seduced a great part of the world, and so restrayned the latitu­de which wee pretend. Whereunto I ans­were, first, notwithstanding Mahomete and his cōpanie, that the communion of the chri­stian world hath beene with vs, and with no other, which is all I desire. I answere secon­dly, that our communitie hath gained more in the meane tyme, then euer the Pagā tooke away, by an infinite increase both in this old, and allso in the newe world. Witnesse all those Nations in Europe which haue beene conuerted since that Impostor came, besi­des the dailie and admirable increase in India, Iaponia, Brasile, China, and other places. You answere thirdlie, that all thos [...] worlds of people haue beene in errour. But this is impertinent, for here I looke only for the church, that wee may finde it, and when we haue found it, we will in­quire [Page 108] then whether it hath erred or no. And that this is the Catholique Church is euident because no other is, or hath beene in the ge­nerall communion of Nations, but only this: nor euer any for the latitude of communion equall to it.

16. I goe now futther, and prescribe against you for our church and Religion thus. That Arg. 3 Faith, which in the Christian world hath beene generally beleeued to be diuine,Quod vni­uersa tenet Ecclesia, nec Con­cilijs insti­tutum sed semper re­tentum est non nisi authorita­te Aposto­lica tradi­tum rectis­simè cre­ditur. S. Aug. l 4. de Bapt. c. 24. and looking vpwards towardes the Apostles tyme, no other origen of it can be found, is verilie to be beleeued to be such: But such is the faith of this cōmunitie, for it hath beene the generall beleefe of the Christian World, as I haue shewed: and, that no other origen of it can be found, I prooue cleerly because, whensoeuer you or any other begin later, we shewe easilie that it was before. And this because you persist without ground in your fond persuasion, any indifferent man who doth vnderstand Latine may do thus. In anie maine controuersie of faith which you question, and accuse this great companie (I now speake of) of innouation, do you name the tyme when their doctrine first began, and let him who would see the triall take Gualterius, Coccius, or some other of our Authors, who write of that matter, and he shall find another [Page 109] in the primitiue Church, who did teach it before the tyme or partie you assigned: where­by it will be euident vnto him, that you were deceaued about the begining of it. And if he follow the direction of the booke, he shall finde the same in the Fathers. I said, in any maine controuersie of faith, and not, in any thinge whatsoeuer, because the Church hath power to make lawes, and prescribe ceremo­nies, and therefore may introduce or alter such thinges according as the circumstances in her iudgment require. For this reason I speake of points of faith, or such things whose institution wee hold to be Diuine. For exam­ple, the substance of Baptisme is of diuine insti­tution, but Ceremonies haue beene added: and the substance of the Masse is by diuine institu­tion, but prayers and Ceremonies haue beene and may yet be added by the Church.

17. If you be discontented with this man­ner of proceeding, from which without a preiudice you cānot disclaime at all, I vrge an other, and take learned men to scanne the businesse. In the seauenth age when the Christian word was Papisticall and of our Religion as you confesse, the Schollers and wisest men had the Fathers writinges, and the Memories of the sixt age, which you must needes graunt, because the precedent [Page 108] age did leaue them to their posteritie, the Fa­thers to their Children, the Masters to their Schollers: Now those of the seauenth age, as I haue noted more fullie in the former booke, Bysshops, Pastors, learned mē, and generallie all the Church of that tyme, hauing these pregnant and infallible meanes of informatiō by writings, and otherwise, did iudge and be­leeue, and therevppon did engage their part in heauen and eternall estate, that they recea­ued their faith and Religion from the for­mer age being the sixt: Wherefore since a world of men in matter of Facte, as whether their Fathers wēt to Masse, praied to Saincts &c. could not be deceaued, the thing being subiect to the eie, and there being infinite eies obseruing religiously what was donne, it followes cleerlie, since the world generally did then beleeue this to be the Religion pro­fessed by their Fathers, that so it was.

18. My fourth argument shall be this. Papi­strie, as you terme it, was the generall Religiō of the Christiā world in the tyme of Boniface the third, as you may see in the Ecclesirsticall histories of that tyme, whereby appeares, that all generally did goe to Masse, pray to Saincts confesse their sinnes &c. and your men allso Arg. 4 do confesse it. Againe the true Religion was once in Rome, their communion once was [Page 111] withall the world, and this Religion did re­maine in the communion of Nations till the tyme of S. Leo and S. Gregory the Great, as you may obserue in their bookes, wherein their communion with the Christian world is manifest:so com­pare the sixt age, to the fift: the fift age, to the fourth &c. as I be­fore did the 7. to the 6. Now Sainct Gregory died in the yeare six hundred and fower, and Bonifacius the third, who in the tyme of S. Gregory had bene imployed at Constantinople, came to be Pope, and died also within the space of three yeares after; in which space the Religion of the Christian world was not generally chan­ged, as wee see manifestly by all histories of that tyme, therefore the Religion which was vniuersally in the world in Bonifacius his ty­me was the same religion with that which was vniuersally in the world in tyme of S. Gregorye which Religion you confesse to be the right. Moreouer, that in the foresaid space of three yeares it was not changed, besides the Testimony which is taken out of the hi­stories of that tyme, where no mention is made of such a change, by friend or foe, but all things currant as before in matters of faith I cōfirme first, by the practise of Sainct Augu­stine and his companie, who being sent by Pope Gregorie, brought Papistrie from him into England; as is largly obserued in the Pro­testants [Page 112] Apologie, and by your learned men there confessed.Prot. Apol tr. 1. Sect. [...] I prooue it secondly, by the writings of such as liued in the sixt Age, whe­rein are expresly contained all pointes of Pa­pistrie: which you may finde in Coccius and Gualterius, if you take the paines, and I will put downe if it be required. Thirdly, it is not only incredible to any man of iudgment, but also manifestly vnpossible by reason of the diuine ordinance and promise of Iesus Christ that all Christiā people, in the space of three yeares, without meeting in common Coun­cell, without resistance of any zealous men, without force of armes or other constraint, should generally change the religion of the whole world, and conspire all generally (for you cannot produce any one man who stood for your Religion in that tyme, which you would haue vs beleeue was the Religion of the first six hundred yeares, there is not in hi­stories mention of any one Protestant man then resisting, therefore I say againe, it is vn­possible that they should conspire all) all kingdomes, all states, all Prouinces, all Natiōs, all vniuersities, all Bysshops, and generally all men liuing, learned and vnlearned, good and bad, Pastors and people, against the Euidence of the former Religion, against the Religion [Page 113] of the Christian world, (which you foolishly suppose to haue bene the Protestant, how­soeuer) against the Religion of the world before them, maintayned to that tyme by Fathers Writings and Authority, by the force and power of cleere Successiō in the Chaires of Christs Apostles, by the word of God in­terpreted by the Spirit in knowne Saincts, by consent of Nations, and generally of the Christian world, and finally by the seale of infinite miracles recorded euery where, and fresh in memory; which Religion they had seene exercised in all the Christian world with their owne eies, and had practised their owne selues. Yet this you make a companie of sillie people to beleeue, on your word,Isa. 59.21. Io 14.16. Ephes. 4.14▪ against a world of eie witnesses, against all rhe men of that age, yea against Gods couenant with his Church, and against the expresse promise of Iesus Christ.

THIRD CHAPTER. Further confirmation that the Companie of Chri­stians in communion with the Bysshop of Rome is the Church.

19. THe former Argument, because I know you will striue what you can to cauil [Page 114] at it, I will second with another taken out of the confession of your Deuines: and, though I loathe to rehearce their fowle speaches, and errours against the Church and her doctrine, yet some of thē here I will set in your way, de­siring the Catholique reader to turne his eie aside a while till they be past. I will begin be­fore Luther when our Church generally was acknowledged for true by the Christiā world ād her doctrine beleeued: ād will goe vpward to see, Whether the Confession of your men for the generall acknowledgment of our Church and doctrine by the Christian world will reach to S. Gregories time or no: From thence, to pro­ceede afterwards to the Apostles with the vniuersality of the same Church and doctri­ne will be easie. First therefore, by your lear­ned men it is confessed that Papistrie (to vse Arg. 5 your word) was the generall Religion of the Chri­stian world before Luther came. In so much that^a Caluin affirmes all the Westerne Churches to haue defended it, and^b. that his separatiō was frō all the world. ^c. White saith it was a leprosie breeding in the Church so vniuersally that there was no vi­sible company of people appearing in the world free from it. ^d. Morgestern. The whole Christian world knowes that before Luther all Churches were ouer whelmed with more then Cymerian darknes. ^e. Bā ­croft. The Priests and all the people too, were [Page 115] drowned in the filth of Poperie, from top to toe. ^f. Iewell. The whole world, people, Priests and Princes, were ouer whelmed with ignorance: All Schooles, Priests, Bysshops, and Princes of the world were by oath obliged to the Pope. ^g. Camierꝰ. Errour possessed, not one litle part or other, but Apostasie auerted the whole Body from Christ. ^h. Brocard. When the preaching of the Gospell and the first assault made vppon the Papacie was appro­ued in Luther, the knowledge of Christ was wanting in all and euery one of his members. ⁱ Whittaker. In tymes past no Religion but the Papisticall had place in the Churches. And.^k. That Antichristian plague hath gone thorough all partes of the world and all visible Churches. Thus in generall. To [Page 116] runne thorough the particulars were infinite They say,^l. The whole world was filled with the abuse of images. That^m All to the very common people were imbued with this principle that mā hath free will. thatⁿ the principall point of Religion, iu­stification by faith only, was blotted out of memo­ry, that^o. the errour so they speake, of the reall presence, preuailed amonge all the Christians of the world, that^p. All the world erred, in that article of the reall presence. that^q. the Masse made drunke all the kinges and people of the earth from the first to the last. that^r. scarce any thing was more beleeued then that the Masse was a Sacrifice. that^ſ all endeuoured to merit, to satisfie &c. And to summe all vp in a word, they con­fesse our Religion to haue preuailed ouer their supposed Church and Religion so far­re^t. that the Protestant faith was abolished and extinguished. That^u. vnder the Papacie there [Page 117] was an extreme abolishing of the true Protestant Religion and the diuine word. that vnder the Pa­pacie the DOCTRINE without which Protestāt Christianitie doth not subsist, was ALL reiected ād buried. This was the state of our Church befo­re Luther; and not for a small tyme, but for nine hundred yeare, yeauen from the tyme of Boniface and Gregorie the Great: All the knowne Churches in the world; all that tyme frequenting and beleeuing Masse, con­fessing to Priests, praying to Saincts and for the deade, beleeuing iustification by workes dōne in grace, ād the merit of thē, satisfaction, traditions, religious vowes &c. and the com­munion of the Pope was with the Christian world generally all that tyme. This you might knowe particularly frō tyme to tyme out of Ecclesiasticall Histories if you would reade thē, but of histories I am not to speake now, let vs goe on with the confessiō of your men for the generall acknowledgment of our Religiō and the generall pouerty or not existencie of your supposed Church. Speake Perkins. Du­ring the space of nine hundred yeeres the Popish he­resie hath spred it selfe ouer the whole earth. Bale. From Phocas (who liued a. 602.) till the renuing of the Gospell, the doctrine of Christ was for that space amonge Idiotes, and in lurking holes. and, after Gregorie, the purity of Protestant doctrine [Page 118] perisshed, ^d. Powell. I graunt that from the yeere of Christ 605. the professant company of Poperie hath bene very visible and conspicuous. ^e. Fulke. The Re­ligion of the Papists came in, and preuailed in the yeare of our lord 607. ād so vniuersally that, the reuelation of Antichrist with the Churches flight into the wildernes was a. 607.^f. Hutter. I graunt willingly that the Papist Idolatrie hath inuaded all most all the world, especially these last thousand yeares. ^g. Simon Voyon, when Boniface was stalled in the Papall throne the whole world was ouer whelmed in the dregges of Antichristian filthines, with superstitions and Traditions of the Pope: Then was that vniuersall Apostasie from the faith foretould by Paul. ^h. Bibliander. It is of it selfe knowne, most cleere, and out of all question, that from the death of Gregorie the greate the Pope of Rome is Antichrist, who with his abominations, blasphemies, and idolatries, so made drunke all kings and people from the highest to the lowest, that they were more stupid then very beasts. ^i. Hospi­nian. In the age of Gregory the greate, all kinde of superstition and Idolatrie hath as a Sea ouer­flowed allmost all the Christian world, not only none resisting but rather all helping and adding thereunto what force they could. Thus I haue, by Protestants assigned to me, the space wherein Papistrie hath ben generall, and the supposed Protestancie supprest; I meane from Luther [Page 191] vpwards to Boniface, and to the death of Gregory the great.

20. Now that the Religion, generall in the world then, was the same with that which was generall in the world in the tyme of Gregorie the greate, who died but three yea­ret before Boniface, is manifest by the testi­monie of a world of eie witnesses, that is, by the testimonie of all kingdomes, Nations, Schol­lers, Pastors, People, by the testimonie I say of all Christiā Churches, which being in the time of Boniface and of our Religion as you heard your Deuines confesse, had most of them seene the exercise of the Religion in all the world in S. Gregories tyme, and could not be deceaued in the fact, subiect to the eie, euery where; as, going to Masse, praying to ^{a. b.} [Page 120] saints, cōfessiō to Priests, adoratiō of the Bles­sed sacrament &c. They had allso all meanes that mē could haue to be informed certainly of the Religion of the world in S. Gregories tyme, Books, Records, Relations; eies to see the practise immediatly, eares to heare what they said, Instruction, Baptisme, Bible, Orders, all, they had from them immediatly; and the matter touched thē all, and each in particular more then lands, life, or whatsoeuer else can be deare to man. I might confirme this fur­ther out of Gods assistāce to the Church, out of which it commeth ineuitablie that neither the former Religion could abruptly stop as you imagine, and the faith faile, the Church fall on the suddaine, the Church I say diffu­sed thorough the world; nor all knowne Christiā Churches in succeeding tyme, or the whole Christian world generally erre in a matter of the greatest moment, in the discer­ning the true Religion, and the true Church of former tymes. Leauing you therefore to deale with babes, whom you may peraduen­ture make beleeue, on your bare word, with­out euidēce, against histories, against the pro­mise of almighty God, ād against the testimo­ny of all the Church of that tyme, that (whilst all were a sleepe it seemes by your dreame) the Religion of the world was generally [Page 121] changed in Boniface his tyme after the death of Gregorie: I take vpon the testimonie of a world of people, vpon the Testimonie of all Nations then Christian, that it was not, but, that the Religion then currant, was the Reli­gion currant in the tyme of Gregorie the grea­te.

22. Now that S. Gregorie had communion with all the world euery one knowes by his Epistiles to the Bisshops of Corinth, Siracusa,Extant in­ter Op. D▪ Greg. Constantinople, Alexandria, Carthage, Nu­midia, Ierusalem, Arabia, Antioche, Arles, Vienna, &c. You graunt also that he did com­municate with the former ages, and was of the same Religion with them, which is allso cleere by the consent and iudgment of the Christian world in his tyme who beleeued that he and they were of the same Religion with the Church of the precedent age, and had best meanes to know it. The same Church and Religion in the tyme of Leo the greate, was also vniuersall, and this likewise out of his writings may be prooued, The vniuersalitie I say, of Leo his communion, is knowne cleerly by his Epistles to the Bisshops of Italie,Ie op. v. Ie▪ France, Thessalonica, Vienna, Sicilie, Campania, Tuscia, Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, Ierusalem &c. in a word, it [Page 122] is included, and to the world made knowne, by the Councell of Chalcedon. If you will ascend hiegher with this vniuersalitie, goe vp to Syluesters tyme, and his communion with all the Christian world you haue in the first Nicene Councell: and Further I thinke you will not presse me, though I could further name S. Paul, witnessing of the Roman faith that it was renowned in the whole world.

22. Hauing bene lōge in the former argumēt (and the longer because I would see whether you could make the like in all respects for the vniuersalitie of your Church and doctrine Arg. 6 there currāt amōge you) I will now be shorter in the next which I will frame out of the Cō ­fession of Protestants too, not so much for their authoritie, which I esteeme not, as to stop your mouth; and it shall be this. Bright-mā in his Apocalyps saith that the Church Pro­testant was hidden from the tyme of Constantine, to wit, 1260. yeeres; that, then the supposed Protestancie went into the desert, Bright. in cap. 11. & [...]2. Apoc. Id. p. 577. Broc on Reuel. fol. 110 12 [...]. Nap. Reuel p. 68. See also p. 191. and that euer since Antichrist (so he calls the Pope) hath rai­gned. Brocard saith also, the church, supposed Protestāt, was trodden downe and oppressed by the Papacie euen frō Syluesters tyme to those tymes viz. 1260. yeeres. ād Napper saith. Betwene the yeare of Christ 300. and 316. the Antichristian and Papisticall raigne began, raigning vniuersally and [Page 123] without any debateable cōtradiction 1260 yeeres, the Pope and his clergie possessing the outward vi­sible Church of Christians all that tyme. And for the supposed Protestant Church and doctrine he saith, Gods true Church, most certainely abode so longe latent. Ours therefore by the confes­sion of these Protestants was vniuersall longe before the tyme of Gregorie the greate. I knowe that you obiect, the Primacie to haue bene confirmed to Bonifacius by Phocas. But this will not hinder my argument, for it is one thinge to declare and second, an o­ther thing to institute: the institution of the Primacie you haue in the Gospell,Ma [...] [...] 18. Io. 21.18. S. Hierom. ep. ad Dam Theod. ep. ad Renat. Presb. Sand. Visib. Mon. l. 7. Touching the existē ­cie of our Religion in the tyme of Con­stantine, See more in the Pro­testant A­pol. tract. 2 c. [...]. Sect. 3. the acknow­ledgment you haue in Antiquitie, as I will de­clare hereafter; and the exercise before the tyme of Boniface, is well knowne. On this Rocke will I build my Church, said our Sauiour; who commended his flocke peculiarly to S. Peeter. I quoth S. Ierom to Damasus then Pope, Following none formost but Christ, doe communicate with thy Holines, that is, with the chaire of Peeter, Vppon that Rocke I knowe the Church was built. And Theodoret a Grecian speaking of that See: That holy Seate hath the gouerment of all the Churches in the world. You heard before what S. Leo said of it and you knowe how he did exercise this power. Only because your fellowes are wōt [Page 124] to obiect a speach of S. Cregorie, not content to take the interpretation of it from his owne mouth, I put you heare in mind that he did exercise this power ouer all the Christian Churches in his tyme: and this you haue no­ted by D. Sanders in his Monarchie,Sand. Visib Mon. l. 7. and not answered yet. He shewes there I say, out of S. Gregories owne writings how he did exercise the foresaid power ouer the Bys­shops and Churches of Italie, Sicilie, Corsica Sardinia, Africke, Spaine, Ireland, England, France, Dalmatia, Greece, Corcyra: and that the Patriarcks haue confessed Subiection to the Church of Rome. Lastly wee haue the confession of your men here cited in this an gument for the generall obedience to the Pope euer since Constantine, which is suffi­cient for this purpose, howsoeuer the Gre­cians might some tymes beare themselues in some occasions; of which I am to speake in an other place.

23. A seuenth Arg. It is manifest by the scri­ptures aboue cited, that the Catholique Church is perpetuall, and cannot faile; and Arg. 7 this by Scripture is meant of the visible Church, whereof I haue giuen ample demō ­stration in the begining of this second Booke which I desire the reader to peruse, and mar­ke; Now there is no Christian Church at all [Page 125] that hath bene petpetuall, but this which I speake of: Therefore this indiuiduall Church is the Catholique Church. To See the truth of that I haue assumed, let vs looke vpon the rest. The Pagans come not in question becau­se their Church is not Christian; nor the Iewes for the same reason, though they farre excee­de you in this point of perpetuitie: The Gre­cians, they were in our communion the first thousand yeares, and since haue bene, neither was Grecisme beleeued allwaies or euer the faith of Nations: and communion with you they haue refused. Your Church and Reli­gion hath not bene perpetuall, as in the for­mer booke wee haue seene to your griefe, Another that can callenge, there is not, not the Aethiopian, nor the Maronite, nor any whatsoeuer. The Roman hath euer beene, and, her communion euer bene vniuersall; therefore this greate and ample Societie is the true Church of God.

24. An eigth Argum. That is the Catholique Church whereūto come all Natiōs, ād out of which all Heretiques do goe: But into the communion of that companie which I haue Arg. 8 named that is into the communion of the See of Rome, and the companie of Christians communicating with it, all Nations hetherto haue come, and out of it all Heretiques haue [Page 126] gone. Therefore this is, and hath euer bene the Catholique Church. The proposition is cleere by the promises related in the beginīg, that all Nations should be conuerted to the Church and her gates be euer open day and night to receiue them:c. 1. Is. 60. S. Aug. de Sym. 6. l. 1. c. 5. and as for Heretiques it is well knowne that they are boughes lop­ped of the great vine; and that that heresie is a corruption of the true faith. The assumption you haue at large in Ecclesiasticall Histories, and you denie not, but in the Primitiue tyme this companie was the Church,Baronius Spondan. auctar. Iarricius Magde­burg. Osiander. Pappu [...]. See Prot. Apol. tr. 2. c. 1. s. 4. that Nations from Infidelitie were conuerted to it, and that Heretikes all went out of the same companie. Since vnto the same haue bene conuerted the Germanes, Vandalls, Polonians, Danes, Hun­garians, Noruegians, Brasilians, Indians, and diuers others: and to your companie or reli­gion, immediatelie from infidelitie no Nation at all. Out of the same great companie haue gone all Heretickes since that tyme, and a­mong them those who in part were your predecessors, Iconoclastes, Berengarians, Waldenses, Albigenses, Lollardes, Hussites.

25. Beare with me if I repeate the same a­gaine Arg. 9 for a nienth argument. The Romane See, and other congregations in that com­munion, were the Church or the Catholicke Congregation, in the tyme of Saint Paul; [Page 127] And the same congregation 300. yeares after was still the Catholicke Church, and had the communion of the Christian world, as you know by the Generall Councell of Nice; Into it, came Schythiās, Iberians, Armenians, Hun­nes, and others. Out went the Marcionites, No­uatians, Manichees, Arianes. Betwixt the fourth and fift age was the Coūcell of Calce­dō; and in that tyme likewise the foresaid cō ­muniō was the Church Catholique, ād their communion was with the christian world, as by that councell of calcedon, ād the Epistles of Leo the great, who was President of it, all men knowe. Into this communion came Scottes, French, and other Nations. Out went Pelagians, and Nestorians, after whose cōmu­nion in the Aethiopians you seeme to thirst. In the next ages followīg which were the sixt ād seauēth, were the Generall assemblies at Cō ­stātinople, One, in the tyme of Vigilius being the fifte Generall Councell. The other in the tyme of Agatho; which you haue in the Tōes of Councelles, with most ample subscriptiō of the Bysshops which were in thē: and by these Generall councelles (which did also receaue the former) it is euidēt that in those tymes also the cōpanie of Christians in cōmuniō with the See of Rome, was the Catholicke Church, ād that the communion of those Popes ād those Coūcelles was with the world of Christians. [Page 128] Into it came the Pictes, Gothes, Barba­rians, and our Countrie. Out were cast the Tritheites, Monothelites, and other such excrementes. After those Councelles Followed others; One at Nice, in the tyme of Adrian the first, Another at Constantinople Adrian the second being then Byshop of Rome. By which Councelles it is cleere that the communion of the Roman See, was then also generall, and this companie the Church of God. They did also receaue the former Councelles, and noe communion was Gene­rall in Christendome, or continued by Vniuersall Succession, but onelie this. Into this com­panie came the Frisians, Hassites, Russians. Out went Maronites, and your deere freindes the Iconoclastes, with diuers others. You see how this communion, continues euer Catho­licke, and, that the Romane See is found euer in the Church, and the Church in commu­nion with the See of Rome. To follow the streame further it is needlesse, because you confesse, that long before this, the commu­nion of the Christian world was with the Pope of Rome, and that Nations were con­uerted thereunto. He that will, may reflect on the generall Assemblies held at Rome, at Lions, at Florence: As Also, vppō the flowing of Nations vnto this Ocean in this and for­mer ages, together with the discarding of the [Page 129] Waldenses, Albigenses, and other Hereticks, and he will see it to be most true that in noe age any communion hath bene acknowled­ged Catholique but onelie this which wee speake of, and that the See of^* Rome was euer in the Generall communion of the Cat­holique Church. Your obstinacie and oppo­sition hath beene occasion that I haue consi­dered more particularlie of this matter, and considering it. I take much content to see the old Prophecies of the Greatnes and Perpetui­tie of the Christian Church, fulfilled before [Page 130] mine eies in the Church wherein I am.

26. The tenth argument. Were all Papistes silent in the matter of the Church, the thing Arg. 10 is so notable that Heretickes themselues, a­gainst their will, would lead vnto it, ād point it out. For, if you consider well, there is but one truth; ād many wayes there are to goe against it: one true Church, many false and hereticall. And all those Hereticall are against the Ca­tholike Church, as errours are all against the Truth. Now, by Ecclesiasticall Recorde it is cleere that all confessed Heresies from the first to the last, haue opposed themselues se­uerallie ⁴⁰ [Page 131] to the companie, with which the Bisshop of Rome did communicate in the tyme wherein those Heresies were; and this companie likewise hath opposed it selfe to them all; neither did they euer oppose them selues all to any other companie whatsoeuer. This companie therefore which I speake of and no other is, and euer hath been, the true Church.

27. The 11. Argument. That companie which hath euer borne and maintained the generall prouidence of common Church-affaires, Arg. 11 is the Catholique; But the companie in com­munion with the See of Rome hath donne this, and noe other; which (to omitte histo­ries wherein the thing is manifest, and by Card. Baronius, deduced at large) I proue by Generall Councelles; by which is seene euidently First the Generall communion of the Church in the tyme wherein each was held. Secondlie the communion of the See of Rome with each of these Councelles, and consequentlie with all those partes, from whence the Bisshops came. Thirdlie the com­munion of each of these Councelles with the former Councelles and precedent ages. Four­thlie which is the thing I haue spoken of in this argument, this Churches diligence in conseruing Church-discipline, and con­demning [Page 132] erroures.

28. Harke how the canones roare (if your nicer eares will beare the word) in Bithynia, in Thrace, in Ionia, in Italie, in France, euerie where. Against Arius and his faction at Nice, against Macedonians and Monothelites at Constantinople, against Nestorians at Ephe­sus, against Eutichians at Chalcedon, against Waldenses, Albigenses at Rome, against the Begardes at Viēna, against moderne Greekes at Lions, and Florence, and against Lutherās, Caluinistes, and all Protestantes at Trent: In Defence, Of the Sacramentes, Of the Prima­cie, Of the reall Presence, Of the Incarnation, Of the Deitie of the holy Ghost, Of the consubstantialitie of the Sonne of God; and other pointes of the Catholicke faith and Church. Againe, Sabellius from men of this communion receaues his doome in Alexan­dria, Paulus Samosetanus in Antioch, Pela­gius in Carthage, Berengarius in Vercells, Gilbertus Porretanus in Rhemes, Nouatus and Donatus in Rome. Finally all Heresies that haue ben hetherto, haue had their sen­tence of condemnation from men of this communion and company, from this Church of ours. This Church and no other hath maintained the faith hetherto at all tymes on all occasions. This hath maintained the word [Page 133] of God, and kept it to this day, and you know not which it is but by this. This Chutch and no other hath maintained the Fathers do­ctrine ād the authority of generall Councells hetherto. This Church hath triumphed ouer all confessed heresies: she hath allready sup­pressed more then two hundred: and hath bruised the heads allso of those which last peeped out of Hell to hisse against the Truth.

29, By the foresaid waie of Oecumenicall Councelles is demonstrated euidentlie the Vniuersalitie of the Romaine Church, and the Catholicke communion which in all tymes it hath had: because the Romaine See or Bisshop, as I haue shewed hath commu­nicated with all those Councelles; and the communion of each of those Councelles was vniuersall in the tyme wherein it was held, by reason of the Nations and kingdomes, from whence those Bysshops came, which is set downe at large in Baronius. And by this wee see cleerlie the greate amplitude of Go [...] Church, wherof the Prophettes did speake whom in the begining of this booke I haue cited. Neither is there any other Christian communion that can equall it all this tyme, or is any way answearable to the description there putte downe. I would goe Further yet and put your eie to it, as it hath bene in each tyme, but [Page 134] it is not necessarie to take the paines, a generall viewe was all I did intēd, ād this I haue exhi­bited, The Catholicke Church is seene and knowne by her Vniuersalitie in Tymes ād Na­tions, this Vniuersalitie is seene in the Generall communion of Christian Churches, this gene­rall communion is seene in Generall Councelles and these Councelles you may looke on when you will. Hereafter I will examine whether this indiuiduall Church whereof I haue spoken, hath diuine assistance, and how farre, but here I abstract from that question: and if you graunt this to be the Catholicke Church, as of necessitie you must, I haue all I intend in this booke. And for this purpose onelie, haue brought these fewe motiues, omitting infinite others, which euerie where you may finde.

30. For that which I haue alleaged out of Councells, I neede say no more; it is their communion onelie which here I vrge, and the Tomes of Councells I suppose you haue in your librarie; Of the truth of their doctrine I will speake afterwards. If you will goe Fur­ther yet, and see all the Bysshopricks of the Church, Notitia Episcopat. Aub. Miraei either in elder tymes or now, take Miraeus and reade them there; and marke allso in him those which are erected since the dis­couerie of the newe world. If you will See, [Page 135] the particular demōstratiō of each poīt of our faith, out of Antiquity, and cōsequentlie the consent of the world in our Religion and cause, from the Apo­stles tyme to this day, looke in Cocciꝰ who hath taken the paines to declare it in two large Tomes, and there are vndoubted Authors of euerie age, though here ād there may be some allso which are not vndoubted works, which the learned, ad such as do write cōtrouersie are to discerne; it being sufficient for his purpose to haue digested in that sort what he had reade.Collat. doctr. Cath ac Prot. cū expr. script verb. If you will See the consent of our Church and her doctrine to Gods word, and your opposition to it, reade the conference of my Lo. of Chal­cedon. If you desire to knowe the signes, and markes of the true Church, and in which and how in particular they are verified, reade Bosius, you haue it there. And finallie, if your desire be to see the Acts and Monuments of our Church in particular from yeare to yeare, you haue them in Baronius, who hath made in this kinde an ocular demonstration of it, and thereby of our Church. In the former Booke you had other proofes of our Church and in the next you shall haue more, for the points which I handle in these three Bookes are connected and vnited so, that one main­taines the other. And you will finde the Boo­kes, so to conspire against you that when you [Page 136] thinke you haue answeared any one of them, the other two will oppose them selues to your answeare, and saue me in the iudgment of an intelligent reader the labour of writing any more. When you are about your ans­weare, if you will needes be answearing, and are thinking with your selfe how I may op­pose it out of the grounds laid downe in these three Bookes, you will guesse whether I haue spoken within my compasse, and if you spend your iudgment more suddainlie, your conscience I beleeue will then retract it.

THE FOVRTH CHAPTER. The Iewes reiected.

29. I Care not if I leaue you now conside­rīg what I said in the last chapter, whilst I looke Further into more remote tymes on the begininges of our Church. Dispute I neede not because neither the times present nor the persons into whose hands this will come doe require it, and the cause doth con­tayne such an argument of truth that simply to relate ours is to refute others; and a relatiō serues my turne for the cōnection of my dis­course. In all Nations and at all yeauen the [Page 137] most obscure tymes it hath beene a generall notion, a faith transcendent, a common and most constant Principle that there is a Deitie: soe fathers taught their children, so Philoso­phers did prooue in schooles, soe the worlds variety, and order, and beautie, and maiestie did proclaime abroade. No man so simple but knowes he hath a cause: and (each being of the same nature) all the species, all mankinde hath a cause. Each subordinate cause hath a cause; and the collection of subordinate and depending causes doth argue the existencie of a higher power supereminent vnto the collection, on which power they all depend: which efficient being none of the dependant causes, is whollie without a cause, and there­fore hath of it self an infinite necessitie in Being and in all that appertaynes thereunto. Moreouer, because infinite in existencie and Being, all wisdome, all power, all perfection is in it: and this immateriall, intellectuall, im­moueable, omnipotent, all-commaundinge Creatour wee call God: who, as he doth vn­speakeablie exceede all, so is he in like man­ner incomprehensible of all, and liues eter­nallie in the height and fullnes of blisse, com­prehending ād enioying his owne substāce, which is the roote and fountaine of exi­stencie, the originall and vniuersall veritie in­finite [Page 138] wayes infinite, and a most pure and ho­ly Goodnes vnbounded euery way.

30. Heere the Atheist, a man that intricates himself in Circles and infinities to denie that which he cannot auoid, God, will interrupt my discourse and except, that all subordinate efficiēt causes depēd not vppon any determi­nate thing, because they may either rūne the rounde, or ascende euer without an end. This fellowe lookes in tyme to begette his father ād exchang relatiōs with him: and to be Adās great grandfather infinite tymes and as many times more Adams sonne. But his ignorance is verie childish. Each man hath a cause as I said, ād therefore the whole nature or species hath a cause; for, if any had not, he weare not of the same species or nature with the rest, he weare not a pure man. The whole collection or multitude therefore of men, the verie na­ture and the species doth depend on some cause efficiēt: which likewise dependeth on an other, or is independent and immoueable: if independent and immoueable, it hath Being by it self preciselie, without any cause, con­dition, or contingencie what soeuer, and therefore hath a pure, vnlimited, and so an in­finite necessitie in Being, and this is God. If the cause of mankind hath a cause, and that an other, still the collection of depending causes [Page 139] (whether finite, as it is indeede, or infinite as one might dreame) doth depende, and essen­tially too, this being an attribute common to them all, therefore vppon a cause; for it is chil­dish to say that an effect is dependent and not vppon a cause, or to make a circle in cau­ses subordinate: there is therefore a cause which is none of the dependent causes, and vppon this the collection of dependant cau­ses doth depend, and this (beare with me for repeating oft the same words) because it is none of the dependant causes is absolutlie in­dependent, and God. Brasse, you knowe, doth not bring it self to the forme of Mercurie or Caesar; nor doth matter bring it self to the for­me of a lion, tree, or man: and generally, no potentiality can put it self in acte, but hath it by the efficient: if therefore nothing had a pure, infinite, eternall, necessitie of Being, but that everie thinge were potentiall to this acte, nothing could bring it self into Being, and so no­thing could be at all. Whereas notwithstanding, you are, other things are, and therefore the contradictorie must be graunted, that is, some thing hath a pure necessitie in Being which giues Being to the rest, and this is God.

31, Now though there weare in all Nations as I said, this principle and ground of Religiō that there is a Deitie, year in the determina­tion [Page 140] of this generall ground in obscure tymes there were many errours among men: as man is apt to conceaue euery thing limited (his owne nature being so) and limitation giues way to varietie: Whereas indeede that thing which is remote from potentialitie is im­materiall, pure, infinite, and but one. Some, admitting a deitie or one thing best amongst all, and erroneouselie subsuming that the Sunne was the best thing, concluded in their errour, the Sunne was God. Others, the Moone, Starrs, Men, and such like. Among the Gentiles there were diuers greate scholers; who with the power of stronger witts bur­stings thorough those clouds of ignorance found out that he was one, immutable, eter­nall; as Aristotle, Plato, Trismegistus: but he by speciall fauour singularlie re­uealed himself vnto the Nation of the Iewes, and there was peculiarlie serued and adored.

32. These Iewes had among them many Prophets which foretolde certainely future and contingent things as the euent after did did manifest. Among their Prophecies the cheefest were of a Messias that should come a Sauiour and a Master to instruct and redee­me man, who had lost Originall integritie, and missed of the way to the end whereunto he [Page 141] was ordained. That a Messias is promised in the foresaid Prophecies it is cleere,Isay. 7.14. and the Iewes graunt it. Behold a virgin shall conceaue and beare a sonne and his name sball be called Em­manuel, God with vs: saith Isaie one of those Prophets, and then speaking of things future as if they were present, to signifie thereby the certainety of the euent. A little Child, Id. c. 9. v. 6▪ sayeth he, is borne to vs, and a sonne is giuen to vs: and principality is made vppon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Maruelous, Counsellour, God, Strong, Father of the world to come, or eternitie, Prince of peace. I cite no more of this, because the Iewes as I sayd before, admitte willingly that there is in Scripture manifest promise of a Messias, and I deale in this discourse with them only. But they denie that he is yet come and still expect him. Against them wee haue manifest places of ould Scripture wherby it is euident that he is allready come, there being now among the Iewes no Scepter, nor Pro­phet; and Daniels weeks being runne out more then fifteene hundred yeers agoe.Gen. 49.10▪ Law-giuer. The Prophecie; The Scepter shall not be taken away from Iudas, and a Duke out of his thigh, till he come that is to be sent, and the same shall be the expecta­tion of the Gentiles. This text with the circum­stances ensuing in the verses following agree not to any but to the Messias, as hee will find [Page 142] that will runne thorough each part atten­tiuelie, and the tyme therein appointed for the comming of this Messias, is expired 1600. yeers agoe: for all this tyme, there hath bene a­mong the Iewes no King, Duke, Law-giuer, Prophet: neither of the of the tribe of Iuda, nor of any other.

33. A second Prophecie for the tyme is in Daniel. Seuentie weekes are abridged vpon thy people, Dan. 9. v. 24.2; 26 27. and vpon thy holie cittie, that preuarication may be consummate, and sinne take and end, and iniquitie be abolished; and euerlasting iustice be brought, and visiō be accomplished, and prophecie: ād the holie one of holies be anointed. Know there­fore, and marke, from the going forth of the word, that Ierusalem be built againe, vnto Christ the Prince, there shall be seuen weekes, and sixtie two weekes, and the streete shall be built againe, and the walles in straitnes of the tymes. And after sixty two weekes Christ shall be slaine: and it shall not be his people, that shall denie him. And the citty, and the Sanctuary shall the people dissipate with the prince to come: and the end thereof waste, and after the end of the battel the appointed desolation. And he will confirme the couenant to manie one weeke: and in the half of the weeke shall the hoste of the sa­crifice fayle: and there shall be in the temple the abo­mination of desolation: and euen to the consumma­tion, and to the end shall the desolation endure. [Page 143] These words likewise agree to none but the Messias as you will find if you consider the begining well. The weekes heere mentioned are 7. and 62. and 1. in all 70. In scrip­ture wee finde weekes of daies, Leuit. 23.15. ib. 25.8. and weekes of yeeres. And taking these for weekes of yeers which are the longest weekes that are found in Scripture, they make 490. yeeres:v. 25. which tyme (being reconed from the going forth of the word that Ierusalem should be built againe after the Babilonians had ouerthrowne it, of which building of the cittie the Angell heere speaks,2. Esdr. 4. &c. 6. and was performed and suddai­nelie in the tyme of Artarxerxes Lōgimanus sixt Emperour of the Persians) is expired six­teene hundred yeres agoe; wherefore it fol­loweth ineuitablie against the Iewes that the Messias is allready come. Againe,v. 26. & 27. the desolatiō there spoken of, hath bene also these 1600 yeers wellnighe▪ for both cittie ād Tēple some 40. yeers afters our Sauiours Passion were vt­terly ouerthrowne: and since the Iewes haue bene scattered ore the World without Tēple,Iosephus de bello Iudaico li. 7. Sacrifice, Priest There is no way to escape this argument: because the cittie to be built when this was reuealed, is so long agoe ouerturned, the dissipation is seene vnto the world, euery where: and the weekes are expired manifestlie 1500. yeeres agoe [Page 144] howsoeuer the begining be taken for the recōning of them. To saie that he speakes of weekes of ages, were without example in the Scripture, and indeede ridiculous: for they make 49000. yeeres, and till then the Iewes were to expect their Messias. If weekes of Iubilees, they take vp halfe the tyme, that is 24500. yeers, whereas the Temple is allready burnt, and the cittie quite ouerturned more then 1500. yeers agoe. Olympiads, the Scriptu­re neuer compts;Iosephus de Bel. Iud. l. 9. c. 10. neither would the tyme agree with the citties ouerthrowe in any sort but reacheth more then a thousand yeeres be yōd it. In fine, these are sillie shifts without ground and may by the Prophecie be con­trowled easily. To looke into the thing fur­ther, and consider exactly what yeere these weekes began, what yeere precisely they en­ded; Also, why the whole sūme was deuided into three parts, is not necessarie: though there be in the text a light to find it out. It is sufficient and euident, that the tyme is past more then 1500. yeeres agoe.

Agge. 2. v. 8 9.34. A third Prophecie Thus saith the Lord of hosts: as yet there is one little while, and I will moue the heauen, and the earth, and the sea, and the drie land, And I will moue all Nations. And the desired of all Nations shall come: and I will fill this howse (the second Temple then standing) with glory [Page 145] saith the Lord of hosts. Great shall be the glory of this last howse, more then of the first. That temple which was to be so honoured in the cōming of the Messias, the hope of the Gentiles, and was indeed more glorious in regard of his presence, then the former built by Salomon▪ is now rased to the ground more then 1500. yeeres agoe: wherefore this Prophecie is full­filled long since.

35. The Iewes obiect against vs, that the Messias is to come in glorie ād Maiestie Iesus came in humilitie and pouerty, and therefore they will not beleeue he is indeede the Mes­sias. In this discourse these Iewes erre against the Scripture which they admit: and their errour is in this, that they distinguish not two commings or aduents; one to redeeme, the other to iudge the world: one, in humilitie, the other in Maiestie: one past, the other future in the end of the world: And here, because the Iewes denie the former cōming of the Mes­sias, that is in humilitie to suffer for the redē ­ption of mankind, I will recite it out of the Prophets, where it is so manifestly foretold that it cannot be denied or eluded. Reioyce greatly o daughter of Sion, Zach. 9. v. 9 behold thy king will come to thee, the iust and Sauiour, himself poore, &c. His looke among men shall be inglorious, and his forme amōg the sonnes of men. Isa. 52.14 He shall not crie [Page 146] nor accept person, neither shall his voice be heard abrode, Isa. 42. v. 2 3.4. the brused reede he shall not not breake: and smoking flaxe he shall not quench: he shall bring forth iudgment in truth: he shall not be sad, nor turbulēt till he set iudgmēt in the earth: ād the ILANDS shall expect his law. There is no beautie in him, nor comelinesse: and wee haue seene him ād there was no sigthlines, and wee were desirous of him. Despised and most abiect of men, A MAN OF SORROVVES, AND KNOVVING IN­FIRMITIE: and his looke as it were hid and despi­sed, whereuppon neither haue wee esteemed him: he surely hath borne our infirmities, and our sorrowes he hath caried: and wee haue thought him as it we­are a leper, and striken of God and humbled. But he was WOVNDED FOR OVR INIQVITIES, he was broken for our sinnes: [...]. &c. the discipline of our peace vppon him, ād with the waile of his stripe were healed. All we haue strayed as sheepe, euerie one hath declined into his owne way: and our lord hath put vpō him THE INIQVITIE OF ALL VS. He was offered because himself would, and opened not his mouth: as a sheepe to slaughter shall he be led, and as a lambe before his shearer he shall be dumbe, and shall not open his mouth. Therfore will I distribute vnto him verie manie, and he shall de­uide the spoiles of the strong, for that he hath deli­uered his soule vnto DEATH, and was reputed with the wicked: and he hath borne the sinne of ma­nie, [Page 147] and hath prayed for the transgressours. Before you heard out of an other Prophet. After six­tie two weekes CHRIST shall be SLAINE: Dan▪ 9.26. ād it shall be noe more his people that shall denie him. Zach. 12.10. I will powre out vppon the howse of Dauid and vppō the inhabitants of Ierusalem the spirit of grace and of prayers: and they shall looke vppon ME whō they haue PIERCED. They haue digged my hands, and my feete: Psal. 21. v. 18. vppon my vesture they haue cast lotte. All this, and more, the Prophets doe relate of the Humilitie and Passion of the Messias, expreslie against the Iewes, who are scandalized in that which was manifestlie there declared longe before.

36. They obiect secondly, that they are to be saued when the Messias comes.Iuda, is in­terpreted the cōfession of God. See Galat. l. 5. c 11. domus Iuda Congrega­tio confi­tentium Deum. Indeede the Church of the Messias, the Congregatiō of those that perseuerantly adhere to him: is to be saued. And when all Nations haue en­tered, the remnant of the Iewes will acknow­ledge our Sauiour too: which will be before his second comming. But at his first cōminge it is cleere by the Scripture that the Iewes would reiect him and put him to death, and that the Gentiles would receaue him, as they haue donne and doe, and will doe till all Na­tions haue entered into his Church. So that the Iewes obstinacie, though it be grosse, is not strange to vs, for wee are assured of it by the Scripture; and of their desolation, toge­ther [Page 148] with the cause of all. I will sett this downe brieflie too, First their fact, puttinge the Messias to death. Secondly their desolatiō there vppon. Thirdly God turning his fa­uoure to the Gentiles. Fourthly, the Iewes acknowledgment of our Sauiour or conuer­siō in the end. The fact.Dan. 9.26. After sixtie two weekes 1 Christ shall be slaine, and it shall not be his people that shall denie him, Zach. 12.10. &c. I will powre vppon the in­habitants of Ierusalem the spirit of grace &c. and they (the inhabitants of Ierusalem) shall looke vppon me (the author of grace, and God of Israel) whom they haue pierced. The desolation followeth in the words of Daniel: and is also in Osee.Dan. 9.27. Ose. 3 4. Many daies shall the childrē of Israel sitte without King, and without Prince, and without 2 Sacrifice, and without Alter, and without Ephod, ād without Theraphim. God Casting thē of and turned to the Gentiles. I haue no will in you (Iewes) saith the lord of hosts, Malach. 1. v. 10.11. and guifts (or obla­tion) I will not receaue from your hand, for from the rising of the sūne euē to the going downe, greate 3 is my name among the Gentiles: and in euery place there is sacrificing, and there is offered to my name a cleane Oblation, because my name is great among the Gentiles saith the lord of hosts. The Iewes acknowledgment in fine.Ose. 3 5. The childrē of Israel shall returne (saith Osee immediatly after the words aboue cited of their Desolation) and 4 shall seeke the lord their God, and Dauid their King and they shall dread at the Lord and at his [Page 149] goodnes in the last daies. And Isay. In that day the residue of the howse of Israel, and they that shall escape of the howse of Iacob shall not adde to leane vppon him that striketh them: Isa. 10. v. 20.21.22. but they shall leane vppon our Lord the holy one of Israel in truth: the remnant shall be conuerted, the remnant I say of Iacob, to the strong God. For if thy people, o Israel, shall be as the sand of the sea, the remnant there of shall be conuerted. Consummation abridged shall make iustice ouer flowe: Our blessed Sauiour fo­retold vs of it too, whose speach the Iewes haue seene verified allready in part, and the­refore they might beleeue him in the rest.Luk. 21. v. 20.24. When you shall see Ierusalem compassed about with an armie, then knowe that the desolation therof is at hand &c. There shall be greate afflictiō vppon the lande, and wrath on this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword: and shall be led into all Nations, and Ierusalem shall be trodē of the Gētiles, till the tymes of Natiōs be fullfilled.

37. In findinge out the Person of the Mes­sias there is no difficultie, for he was to come with miracles and by his workes to declare himselfe. He that will take directions out of ould Scripture for to finde him must attende vnto the circumstances there determined, as when, from what place, in what maner, he was to come. And he may find him thus without more adoe. Looke out, one, borne at Bethlem, [Page 150] before Ierusalē was ouerthrowne, whose ca­riage was humble, Mich. 5.6. Dan. 9. v. 26.27. Zach 9. v. 9. & 12. v. 10. Isa. 49.6. and actions wōderfull, who was refused by the Iewes, and put to death, and hath beene acknowledged, followed, ād adored by the Gentiles euer since, and this is he. And in him to whom these fewe circumstances do agree, are verified all the Prophecies and all other circūstances foretolde, as you will find if you runne them ouer. Moreouer, that all the circūstances heere named agree pūctuallie to Iesus the sonne of Mary, euery Iewe, euery Gentile knoweth. Neither is it possible now to make them agree to any other, since God cannot deceaue, nor time runne backe, nor that be vndone which is already donne.

38. The later Iewes except also against the Deitie of the Messias; beleeuinge that he was to be pure mā. Wee beleeue that in God there are three Persons, in proprietie all distinct: in substance and nature, one: And, that the second of these diuine Persons, the Sonne and Word coeternall with the Father, did for redemption of mankinde assume and vnite vnto himselfe the forme of man, or humane nature. So that, the same Person hauinge two natures, is reallie God by reason of his diuine nature, the God of hosts, the God of Israel, the onely God; and, By reason of his humane nature he is reallie [Page 151] also man. In Iesus therefore, the Messias,Coll. 2.9. Phill. 2.6.7. our Sauiour, doth dwell the fullnes of the God head corporally. And he, when he was in the forme of God, thought it no robberie himselfe to be equall to God, but he exinanited himselfe, takinge the forme of a seruant, made into the similitude of men, Heb. 1. v. 3.4. and in shape found as man. Who beinge the bright­nes of the glorie (of the eternall Father) and [...], the figure of his substance, and carryinge all things by the word of his powre, ma­kinge purgation of sinnes, sittteth on the right hand of the Maiestie in high places: beinge made soe much better the Angells, as he hath inherited an more excellent name aboue them. Coll. 1. v. 16.17. In whom were created all things in heauen and in earth, visible and inuisible, whether Thrones, or Dominations, or Principalities, or Potestates: all by him and in him were created, and he is before all, and all consist in him. Thus far the Apostle; now heare a peece of S. Iohns deuinitie:Io. 1. v. 1, 2.3. In the be­gininge was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word: This was in the beginninge with God: All things were made by him, and without him was made nothinge. 1 Io. 5. v. 7 There be three which giue testimony in heauen, the Father, the Word, and the Holie Ghost, and these three be one. This great mysterie, wee are taught in the schoole of Iesus Christ. And though it be very high, as concerninge the [Page 152] subsistence of the Deitie in it selfe, yet is it easi­lie defended against all the aduersaries of our fayth: No Iew, Pagan, or other that doth refuse our Creed, being able to prooue that he who hath made other things frutefull,Isa. 66. v. 9. hath not a supereminent fecūditie in himself: or that God, being intellectuall, doth not produce a Word infinite as his intellection, and equall to himself and consubstantiall. Or, that these two diuine Persons, Father and Sonne, by their comprehensiue mutuall loue doe not produce a third Person, immanent also and infinite as the loue, and therfore in substance all one with the Father and the Sonne, though distinct in proprietie as pro­ceeding from them both.

39. But wee are heere briefely out of the Prophets whom the Iewes receaue to de­clare the diuinitie of the Messias. And, this wee can easilie, for though the old Scripture hath not all mysteries so cleerlie, God reser­uing vnto himself the reuelation of some till he came in Person, yet there is enough for our purpose. I will here onely repeate a part of that I finde. The places are so forcible that they cannot be auoided, and therefore the Iewes haue ēdeuoured to corrupt the text, but too late, for the cause was wonne on our side longe before, and the auncient Rabbines are [Page 153] for vs.Ps. 2. v. 6.7 I (saith the Messias) am appointed Kinge ouer Sion &c. and the lord said to me (King of Siō) Thou art my Sonne, I this daie (of eternitie) haue begotten thee. And Dauid. The lord said to my his Word, Paraphr. Chald. the Messias Antiq. Heb. Ps. 109. v. 1.7. v. 3. Psal. 44. and cited allso by to this pur­pose by the Apo­stle Hebr. 1 lord sitte on my right hand, (an honour im­porting equalitie) with thee the begining in the daie of thy strength, in the brightnes of holy things from the wombe before the daie starre I begat thee. And, Thy throne o God for euer and euer: a rod of equitie the rod of thy kingdome: thou hast loued iustice and hated iniquitie, therefore thee, God, thy God hath annointed with oile of exultation a­boue thy fellowes. In Isaie.Isa. 45. v. 14.15. Thus saith our Lord, the labour of Aegypt and the merchandise of Ae­thiopia and of Sabaim the high men, shall passe to thee and shall be thine, they shall walke after thee, (the Messias) they shall goe boūd with manicles: ād they shall ADORE THEE ād shall beseech thee. ONLIE in THEE (he speakes still to the Mes­sias) is God, ād there is NO GOD beside thee. Veri­ly thou art God hidden, in the forme of man, the God of Israel, a Sauiour. God heere auouches that another distīct personallie frō himselfe is God, the only God, God hidden: which speach is verified in the Messias; and cānot possiblie be verified of any pure man. Goe further ād you shall finde in Ieremie the greate name tetra­grammaton, that incommunicable name of God giuen, and by God, to the Messias. Behold [Page 154] the daies shall come saith our Lord, Ierem. 33. v. 14.15.16 and I will raise vp the good word that I haue spoken to the howse of Israel, and to the howse of Iuda &c. I will make the SPRING OF IVSTICE to bud foorth vnto Da­uid: the same is also in the 25. c. v 5.6. and HE shall doe iudgment and iustice in the earth. In THOSE DAIES shall Iuda be saued ād Ierusalē shall dwell confidently, ād this is the name they shall call HIM, By Rab. Aaron & Rab. Iacob [...] THE LORD our iust one. Note heere by the waie, that the poīts in Hebrew were inuented more thē four hū ­dred yeeres after Christ,Elias Le­uita Iu­daeus Prae­fat. 3. ante Massoreth Hammas­soreth. Genebr. Chr. ad an. 76. Zach. 2. v. 8 9. and therefore in rea­ding you may take them of againe; for in the poīting many texts are corrupted. In an other of the Prophets. Thus saith THE LORD OF HOSTS, after glorie he sent ME to the Nations that haue spoiled you, for he that shall touch you, toucheth the apple of mine eie because loe I lift vp my hand vppon them, and they shall be a pray to those that serued them. Marke diligently in the begining who speakes, saying that he is sent, and you will find him to be the Lord of hosts; HE is sent: ād is sent by the Lord of hosts allso: one diuine Person sending the other. The same Person, the Lord of Hosts doth continue still his speach, and saith, and you shall knowe that the Lord of hosts SENT ME. Praise and reioyce o daughter of Sion, because loe I COME, and will dwell in the middest of thee, v. 9.10.11 SAITH OVR LORD. And many Natiōs shall be ioyned to our Lord in that day, ād they shall be my people, [Page 155] and I WILL DWELL in the middest of thee: and thou shalt knowe that the Lord of hosts hath sent ME to thee▪ The same God of Israel, in an other Chapter affirmes himself to be pierced by the inhabitants of Ierusalem, as indeede he was in his passiō. The words I put downe before,Zac. 12.10 To giue the spirit of Grace is an act proper to God. and they are these, I will powre out vppon the howse of Dauid and vppon the inhabitants of Ie­rusalem the spirit of grace and prayer, (the God of Israel speakes) ād they shall looke vppon ME, The God of Israel, VVHOM they HAVE PIERCED. It is cleere then, that the God of Israel hath flesh ād blood by Incarnatiō, how els could he be pierced? Before he foretold his comming in flesh and blood.Isa. 7.14. A virgin shall conceaue and beare a sonne, and his name shall be called Emmanu-el, God with vs.c. 35. v. 5. And in an other place, God himselfe VVILL COME, and will same you: then, shall the eies of the blind be opened and the eares of the deafe &c. A­gaine the God of Israel, in an other place, I my selfe THAT SPAKE, Isa. 52.6. loe I AM PRESENT. All which do manifest the ttuth of that which wee reade in Ba­ruch. This is our God, and there shall none other be esteemed against him. Baruch. 3 v. 36.37.38 He found out all the way of discipline and deleuered it to Iacob his seruant and to Israel his beloued. After these [Page 156] things he was seene VPPON THE EARTH, and was conuersant with men.

THE FIFT CHAPTER. Of the Introduction of Christianitie into the world.

40. IN the begining of the former Chapter I proposed vnto my self a briefe dis­course of the introductiō of Christianitie into the world, and the propagatiō of the Church in the tymes primitiue, but Atheists ād Iewes did interrupt me so, that all the Chapter was spent with them. Hauing there shaken them of, I will now resume the subiect, and will, as then I said, relate not dispute. He that hath raised this greate building whereof I haue spoken in this Booke, the Church I meane diffused in all Nations, is Iesus, borne at Beth­lem, Sonne of Marie. This all doe know and confesse, Pagans, Iewes, Atheists. And this greate worke well considered doth argue in him more then was euer in any other vpon earth: no one, of what qualitie so euer, no Scholler, No Monarch, none that euer liued, hath euer donne the like: to vnite, I say, so maay Nations, for so long a tyme, in so ob­scure a Creede, by such meanes, as he hath [Page 157] donne. These things wee see are donne, they are vndeniable; let vs looke on the begining to see how: and if wee keepe a setled eie on our Master and his proceedings wee shall dis­couer that he was indeede the God of nature conuersing here visiblie amongst men.

41. His doctrine was of Sanctitie, of Salua­tion: of the power, and the knowledge, and prouidence, and soueraigne will of God. Of the last end and chiefe Obiect of mans Being, Of the perfection of the next life in immor­talitie and the dispositions thereunto: Of the horrour and effects of sinne; and of the good­nes of all vertue whereof he did exhibite himself a diuine forme and example to the world by practising them all in the heroicke and most perfect manner. Reflect vppon his cariage in his passion, the bitterest in all res­pects that euer man suffered, and you will finde his behauiour in each particular to be diuine. In his rule there is no vertue wanting, so perfectly did he comprehend what morall Philosophers could neuer attaine vnto; and beyond all these he teacheth Faith relying on the prime Verity, Hope reposed in Gods infinite Mercie, and Charitie louing the di­uine Goodnes for it self. Whatsoeuer in specu­lation men knew cōcerning God the highest Obiect, he deliuered it more cleerelie all, dis­couering [Page 158] further his prouidence, mercie, and iustice about man; and which is furthest out of our sight, the Sacred Mysterie of the Tri­nitie, the Father, the Sonne, and the holy Ghost, subsisting in one infinite Nature and communitie of blisse. Moreouer he did looke into mens thoughts and discouer what he pleased,Matt. 9. & 26.1. in the presence and to the confusion of those who sought occasion to traduce him:Luk. 18 19.21. Matth. 10.100.12. and certainely foretould things to come to himself, to his aduersaries, to his disciples, to Ierusalem, to the Gentiles, to the Church.

42. His miracles were many, donne in the sight of his enemies, donne oft with a word. He cured the sicke, gaue sight vnto the blind and life to those were deade.Matt. 9. Luk 7. And was so powerfull heerein that he gaue his disciples power to doe the same, and so farre that their tutch, their word, their clothes yea ād shadow there followed miraculous effects.Act. 5. Neither was his life onely but this death likewise full of miracle, in so much that nature her self was troubled with the horrour of that daie where in he, on whō she depended, died. The earth trembled, the rocks burst in sunder, the vaile of the Tēple splitte, graues did surrēder their deade,Matt. 27. Luk. 23. the Sunne was ecclipsed strangely, ād a generall darknes ouerspred the whole earth. Being put to death in the sight of a world of [Page 179] people and his bodie buried, he riseth (such was his diuine power) from death, hauing thereby paid the ransome for mankind,Mat. 27. Luk. 24. 1. Cor. 15. and is the third daie againe aliue, and appeares, and conuerses, and giues instruction, power, and commission to his disciples, and lastlie in their sight doth ascend. Being ascended, he sends the holy Ghost in visible manner vnto them all assembled, whereby they receaue an inward testimony of the truth he had taught:Act. 1. & 2. and are so confirmed and encouraged by the power of this Spirit, that they begin confi­dently, notwithstanding the Iewes threates and opposition, to diuulge his doctrine.

43. And behold; Peeter,Supremū & anti­quissimū Theolo­gorum stigium. S. Dionys. diu. nom. c 3. of an ignorāt fisher­man, is now become the Prince and Heade of deuines: and maintaineth, with the victo­rie, by the knowne successe of many ages, vni­uersally now manifest, the cause of Iesus Christ, against all the world. He is also so good an Oratour, and on the suddaine, that with his first speach, and this made without studie,Act. 2. the winnes, in the sight of his Aduersaries, three thousand to the faith. For the better diuulging of the Gospell in all Nations, these Fishermen haue also bestowed on them by their Master the guifte of tongues, and in­stantlie, the doctrine of Iesus Christ is vttered in all languages: the Parthians, and Medians, [Page 180] and Elamites, and those which inhabite Me­sopotomia, Iudea and Capadocia, Pontus and Asia,Act. 2. Phrygia and Pamphilia, Aegypt and the parts of Lybia that is about Cyrene, and stran­gers of Rome, Iewes allso and Proselytes, and Cretensians and Arabians: all, with admiratiō and amazement heare their owne languages from the mouthes of vnlettered Galileans. O heauenly Master! o powerfull and diuine spi­rit! o wondrous Schoole! o happie Scholers! The holy Ghost, saith a greate Sainct, fills a boy giuen to the harpe and makes him a Psalmist: [...]. Gregor. sup. Ezech. he filles an abstinent childe and ma­kes him the Iudge of Elders: he filles a neat­heard and makes him a Prophet: he filles a fisherman and makes him Prince of Apostles: he filles a persecutor and makes him Doctor of the Gentiles: he filles a publican and makes him an Euangelist. Adde heere, that he filles a companie of vnlearned men and makes them linguists, Deuines, Preachers, and A­postles.

44. The Disciples, thus miraculously furnished with knowledge and tongues to the amazement and confusion of all opponents, did according to their Masters cōmission resolutely set on their greate taske, which was to carrie the good tydings of the Worlds Redemption by Iesus the Sonne of [Page 181] God, to all Natiōs: and dispersing themselues into diuers partes, did preach euery where,Mar. 19. our Lord cooperating and confirming their doctrine with signes and woonders. And now, the World began to turne; from Vice to Vertue, from Superstition to Religion, from Idolatrie to God againe.

45. The Enemie of vertue ād of all good pro­ceeding, (who affecting diuine honour fell frō heauen, and cōtinuing his desire thought to compasse it heere on earth) perceauing of the motion nowe begunne, and seeing his ministers contemned, his Idols ouer­throwne, vncleane Spirits commaunded out of men, and a generall reformatiō in the way; began to storme, and raised a most bitter per­secution against the Church: wherein by his instigation, Iewes, Gentiles, and Heretickes, with witte, power, and malice, were to op­pose her; and the world made a Theater of the combat.

46. The particulars are to long for this place, and therefore I remit you to Baronius to reade there what the Christians did suffer in the tymes of Nero, Domitiā, Traian, Mar­cus Aurelius and Sueuerus, commanders of the Roman World: when confessing the faith of Iesus Christ in all places, on all occasions, before all kind of people, their number did [Page 182] increase daily in the face of torment; and the sword of Persecution preuailed nothing but to lay open their constancie to the world. Prouinces, Ilands, Castles, Fortresses, Tents, Campes,Tertull. Apol. ad Gent. c. 37 Courtes, Pallaces, Senates, Market places, all were full: and the Kingdome of Christ discouering it self further thē the Ro­man Empire, was outstreched into all corners, beleeued in all places, reuerenced of all Na­tions, euery where raigning, adored euery where. After the forenamed, followed other most bitter persecutiōs by Decius, Dioclesian, Maximinian; Wherein the Priests were tor­mented, the Churches pulled downe, the Bookes burnt; ād the furie was such, being with extreame violence borne into all prouinces, Citties, Townes, in the Roman world, that it threatned an vniuersall extirpation yeauen to the last Christian man, and yet could not the nūber of beleeuers be diminished. Wee reade of seuēteene thousād martyred in one month and that in Aegypt, a part of Africke, there were 144000. put to death, ād 700000. bani­shed from the same place in Diocletiās tyme.Reade Euseb. Ba­ron. Spon­dan. by which if wee guesse at the multitude which did suffer in all the tyme of the ten persecutions in all the world, the number will appeare infinite, and our faith be con­firmed with a world of blood. So earnestly did the Deuil by these tyrannicall cruel [Page 183] meanes oppose the Church: which notwith­standing, when all was donne, was greater then before,Constant. in so much that Christianity got the Empire, and then securely spred it self, ād Rome, as Leo the greate truly said,S. Leo serm. 1. de Nat. A­post. being made the See of Peeter, came to rule more v­niuersallie by diuine Religion, then by tēpo­rall Soueraignetie; for though enlarged by many victories, she had extended the right of her Empire by sea and land, yet that which the toyle of Warre subdued, was lesse thē that which Christian peace did bring vnder.

46. Out of this admirable plantation of Christianitie, and so powerfull a proposition and persuasion of the truth vnto the World that it was esteemed aboue all things els deerest otherwise to men, the Fathers make excellent discourses to shew the diuine power of our Sauiour Iesus Christ, the author of this worke. One out of S. Chrysostome I will put downe, who saith thus. No man will denie that Christ hath founded all the Churches in the world, and hence wee demonstrate his power, S. Chrys. Quod Christus sit Deus to. 5. ād shewe him to be God. For it is not in the power of a meere man to lay hands on the whole world by sea and land in so short a tyme, and to set at libertie mankinde preuented which such absurd behauiour, and entangled in so greate euiles: and not Romans onelie, but Persians allso, and all kinde of Barba­rians. [Page 356] Moreouer that he did this, vsing no weapons making no expences, raising no armies, fighting no battails: but by eleuen at first of no reputation, base, rude, vnlearned, poore, naked men, he hath persuaded so many tribes of men, and not the pre­sente onelie, but those allso which are to come. what? that he hath ouerthrowne countrie lawes, a­bolished inueterate customes, pulled vp plants so long rooted, and for them planted other of his owne he hath withdrawne vs from those things wherūto wee were inclined, and induced vs vnto those which are hard and troublesome. And whilst he was doing these things, his, were molested by all, and him selfe did suffer a most ignominious kind of death, the crosse. No man will denie that he was crucified, and by the Iewes: that he suffered infi­nite things from them, that dailie the Gospell doth increase, and florish, not heere onelie but euen amōg the Persians too, eauen whilst by them it is opposed. For there are many swarmes of Martyrs from thence, and those who were there more sauage then woolues, hauing heard the Gospell are become mil­der then sheepe, and discourse now of immortalitie, and of the resurrection, and of vnexplicable good things. Neither haue these noble enterprises bene in citties onelie, but they haue gone into villages, and Cuntreies, ād Ilāds, ports ād bayes. And not priuate men and princes onelie, but kings them selues which weare the crownes, doe with a notable and great [Page 185] faith submitte them selues to him that was cruci­fied. Neither did these things vnwittinglie come to passe, but were foretold long before: and least there should be any suspicion at all in this, wee haue the bookes frō the Iewes which nailed him to the Crosse. Certainely these things, vndeniable, and sub­iect to mens eies, prooue a Deitie in the wor­ker: and the correspondence to the predictiōs erecte our mindes to the acknowledgment of a prouidence that preconceaued and ordai­ned the worke long before.

47. It is strāg to see the vanitie of some, who make triall to breake thorough this discourse as being industrious to finde a way to scape: but they are penned in on euery side ād cānot get away. Some tymes they thinke of attributīg the whole busines to the Deuil: but presently their thought is checkt whē they consider frō what ād whereūto this Motiō is. He that knowes what is meant by the world Deuil, doth con­ceaue a spirit bent to euil and opposite vnto good.In motu; terminus quo; ter­minus ad quem, mobile & eff [...] ciens. Now this Motion (to iudge of the whole by that part which is euident) is a Reformation and an amendement of the world, for it is a withdrawing of it from vices which are manifestlie against reason, ād a drawing of it vnto vertues manifestly consonant vnto reason. The Christian Rule discouers to vs more cleerely whatsoeuer nature knowes [Page 186] either in good or ill, proposing the good to be followed, the bad to be eschued. It is further euident that this is against the inclination of the Deuil; wherefore it is likewise euident that this Motion is not from him. Our Rule discouers the Deuil allso and doth inuite all to detest him, whereas he hath an infinite am­bition of honour, whereby it is likewise eui­dent that it is not from him. Next they care not if they attribute it to an Intelli­gence and good Spirit, seducing vs: Where a­gaine they find them selues deceaued when they consider that such a Spirit being good doth not lie or deceaue (as they imagine this hath donne) for if he lie or deceaue it is the­reby manifest he is not good. If he be good, a man were out of danger that were directed by him, by an Angel, a good Angel, telling truth. Thirdly they would attribute it to the Starrs: and straight are cōfounded when they consider that the consent is intellectuall, of worlds, in an obscure Creede, not demon­strable by all the power nature hath. For ex­ample; that in the Deitie are three Persons con­substantiall; this principle of our Religion is not impressed into mans vnderstanding by the Starrs: Neither can the Starrs make it eui­dent with all their light. They haue not yet made euident what kind of things themselues are, what their Orbes, what their influence, [Page 137] what their matter, forme, their subsistence,macula solares. Martis re­uolutio. whether they be corruptible or incorrupti­ble; whether the Planets be fixed in or­bes, or moued in a liquid substance. Of the truth, of these things, none euer haue beene so assured from the Starrs, that they would die for it: for the truth of our Creede many men of great learning haue giuen their liues. Nei­ther can the starrs raise a man that is deade, those who planted our Religion haue donne it: ād haue donne it with a word, whereas if a man expected such a thing from the Starrs,It contai­neth 49000. of our yeeres he must staie till the greate yeere be past, for the same dispositiō of the heauē, ād thē will be as weere it as he is now.Variasse debuerat error Ec­clesiarum. caeterum quod apud multos v­num in ve­nitur non est erratū sed tradi­tum. Tertull. praeser. c. 28. Fourthly they would giue the worke away to chance: But see their errour, when they consider how long before it was foretould and how oft. Againe chaūce is some times one, sometimes other; this is cō ­stantly the same in a world of men. Fiftly they question the miracles wee speake of. But in vaine, for they were donne in publique in the sight of many of all sortes: and being diuulged at that tyme by the Euangelists, the time, place, and other circumstances put downe; and examined by seuere aduersaries, both Iewes and Gentiles, not any one of them could euer be disprooued. So that he who will now question them hath against him the en­deuours [Page 188] of the learned Iewes and Gentiles them liuing, who doing all they could, were not able to discredit any of them, as appeareth still by their Bookes, and allso by the issue ād euent. He hath allso against him all the Chri­stians of those tymes, the rather to be credited because an infinite companie of them, toge­ther with the Apostles, gaue their liues for the doctrine confirmed vnto them by these meanes. The Gospells as I said, where diuul­ged, and therein were put downe the mira­cles donne publikely, the time, place, and o­ther circumstances were there assigned. On the one side the Iewes, studied in the Scrip­ture, and Gentiles learned in Philosophy, did labour to suppresse Christianitie and to dis­proue and discredit these miracles by which it was confirmed and proued to be diuine. On the other side were the Christians, persecu­ted and molested for this doctrine, and to be depriued of their goods, honours, libertie, countrey and liues. Both sides did examine earnestly the truth of things: the one because they would suppresse the Religion, begining to spred it self: the other because it did con­cerne their liues, and further their eternall estate. The memorie of things was fresh, and both sides were present vnto the tyme and place. A more eager inquisitiō, a greater cause [Page 189] there was neuer any. You knowe the issue. The poore fisher-mē did preuaile. There were innumerable, and among them as wise men, as greate Schollers, as the world had euer a­ny, gaue their liues in testimony of the truth. Our aduersaries were confounded. Miracles still encreased. The world became Christian, and still continueth so. He that notwithstan­ding all this will not beleeue those things were donne, and that indeede they were miracles, is constrained to see a miracle, strange without example, before his owne eies. He sees that now the world beleeues the obscure Chri­stian Creede, persuaded thereunto by a fewe, poore, cōtemned, and vnlettered fisher-men:Reade S. Aug. de ci­uit. l. 22. c. 5▪ this miracle effected by fishermen they must see whith their eies, and therefore vnles they will denie that which with their owne eies they see, they must graunt that those poore men, could and haue donne a miracle.

48. If at the tyme when the Apostles did receaue their commission to teach the world, a man should haue demāded whether those fishermen were euer like to bring to passe this greate worke which wee see with our eies now, that is, whether they were like to make the World Christian, it would haue bene thought incredible, vnpossible: Consi­dering the hardnes and obscuritie of the Do­ctrine [Page 190] they were to preach: the Learning of the Philosophers with whom they, not brought vp in Schooles, were to encounter: the diuersitie of iudgmēt in the world in things farre more intelligible, no Master hauing euer beene able to winne so many followers in things more cleere: considering allso the sun­dry conditions, lawes, customes, formes of gouer­ment in the World, which before was neuer brought vnder ONE COMMON RVLE or lawe by any man: and especially if the violent Oppositions of Princes, Emperours, and the World in commō had beene foreseene. Since therefore this greate worke, incredible and vnpossible in mans iudgment, is effected as wee see, and by those simple men, by the Disciples of Iesus: it is euident that a superna­turall and diuine power did worke by them. You know that Plato, one of the Witts of the World, was long about a Common wealth, and could neuer make it any where but in his minde. Philosophie hath beene labouring many thousand yeeres, to vnite all vnderstan­dings in the grounds of Nature, cleere in thē selues, and within the compasse of mans witte but with all her Schooles, she cannot effect her purpose: the lōger she teacheth, the more men disagree. The Arabian Impostor, to winne the people, laid open a wide path to­wards [Page 191] a sensuall Paradise, tempering his Re­ligion to the popular taste; and lest any thing should hinder his diffusiō, gotte the Turkish sword, to make his waie: No maruaile then, if there be many in that sinke, either willinglie descending to the sense, or tumbled downe by force. The Fisher-mē, hauing neuer heard Philosophy speake out of her pulpit, were to make the Schooles beleeue a darke obscure Creede; being vnarmed, they were to meete the Sword. They had no sooner begunne their taske, but mens hāds were full of bookes against their doctrine; and the world in hor­rour, affrighted with the tormēts prouided for their Schollers. Yet, vnlerned and vnarmed as they were; notwithstanding the violent op­positions of sensualitie, Power, ād Hell it self, they haue brought their Creede ād discipline (Posteritie being astonished at the euent) into Nations, into Courts, into the whole World: and so powerfully, that it hath bē vniuersallie diffused these sixteene hundred yeeres. And heereby haue raised a Church vnto their Ma­ster Iesus Christ, greater thē all the Societies, all States, all Kingdomes, all Monarchies that euer were before.

49. I haue now donne what I intented in this place, onelie because the thing I speake of is a Church, let me a little looke vppon it in [Page 192] that forme. The house of God, you knowe, is founded in faith, raised by hope, couered with charitie. Faith is the foundation, the walls Hope, and Charitie is the roofe. In faith, the Apostles were eminent, as being Masters of Christianitie, and are therefore Mountaines, whereon the rest of the Church doth stand, according to the Prophetie,Isa. 2. In the later daies the Mountaine, the house of our Lord shall be pre­pared in the toppe of moūtaines. They were emi­nent in sāctitie likewise, whereuppō another Prophetie,Psal. 86. The foundations thereof in the holie Mountaines. And, what the Apostles taught, the Prophets, as being eleuated aboue others with whom they liued, to see things farre of, did foretell, and after their manner, also teach: so as they come in, within the cōpasse of the Foundation too, wherefore the Apostle in his Epistle to the Ephesiās, You, saith he, are citizēs of the Saincts, Ephes. 2. and the domesticalles of God, built vppō the Foūdation of the Apostles and Prophets, Iesus Christ himselfe being the highest corner stone, in whom the building framed together, groweth vnto an holie Temple in our Lord: in whom you are also built together into an habitatiō of God in the holie Ghost. These Apostles and Prophets, doe relie vppon Iesus Christ, a MOVNTAINE, in regard of his knowledge, Power and Sanctitie; wherein, as mā, he doth [Page 193] excell men and Angells all together, and, as God, he is infinite in each of them. On him beīg the prime Veritie, ād the increated Word of God the Father, profound in all kinde of perfection, immoueable, and eternall, the Ca­tholique Church doth stand. On him, the A­postles; on the Apostles, Christian men are built, as liuing stones, held togeather by Cō ­munion, ād raised vp by strōge Hope, towards heauen, to the very sight of God. Be yee, quoth S. Peeter, superedified, as it were liuing stones, spiri­tuall houses. In the golden roofe,1. Pet 2. millions of Sainctes do shine, ād giue light to the edifica­tiō of others. The Pillars, are the Pastors, who strongly support the Building, and are wōder­fullie disposed in Order Hierarchicall, accor­ding to the forme of that which is in the An­gelicall Church in heauen. In these Pillars, all the Vertues are, aliue. The Dore of this Temple, knowne generallie by the name of Baptisme, is open to all parts of the world, ād infinite do enter, washed cleane as they come in. So the Prophet. In that day shall be a Foun­taine, lying open to the house of Dauid, Zach. 13. vnto the Inhabitants of Ierusalem, for the ablution of the Sinner. This water taketh away the spottes of sinne out of the soule, so that it cometh in to the Church, purer then the Sunne: and there findes the breade of life, breade of Angells, [Page 194] the medicine of immortalitie, the foūtaine of all good, and consummation of Sacraments, the holie Eucharist, to feede vppon. Euery where, there are Altars, wherevppon is Sacri­ficed vnbloodilie the Lambe of God that taketh away the sinne of the world, according as IESVS our high Priest, Priest for euer, according to the Order of Melchisedech, did institute and or­daine. In the way to these Altars, are Tribunalls, wherein those doe sitte who can open Heauen to the Penitēt, where the Priest doth forgiue trespasses comitted against God: Heauen approuing the Sentence of a man. I will giue to thee Peeter,Matt. 16. & 18. the keies of the kingdome of heauen; Whatsoeuer you shall loose in earth, shall be loosed also in heauen▪ whose sinnes you shall for­giue, they are forgiuen them, Ioan. 20. and whose you shall retaine, they are retained. Heere are the Doctors, Euangelists, Prophets, and Pastors, of whom wee reade in S. Paul. Heere are Isaies Kings and Queenes, Abrahams Starrs, the Temples of the Holie Ghost, and Gods Elect. All Tribes, and People, and tongues, all Nations, all the ends of the Earth, doe come hither and adore in this Mount of our Lord, in this House of God. Heere the Holie Ghost still abideth, illu­minating, directing, Sanctifying: and before him a hundred thousand harts burne euer in the flames of diuine loue. Here some are [Page 195] weeping for their sinnes, others meditating on the Passion, others teaching and instru­cting the people, others defining in generall Councell, others conuerting Nations, others adoring the souueraigne will of God, others suffering for his sake. In the Quire, innumerable tongues are imployed daie and night, in the praise of their Creator and Redeemer: And round about are Watchmen, that neuer hold their peace. Lift vp thine eyes, o IERVSALEM, round about, and see, all these are gathered together, they are come vnto thee. Thy somes are come from a farre, and thy daugthers are risen from thy side. See and abound, let thy hart maruaile and be dilated, for the multitude of the Sea is con­uerted, and the streingth of Gentiles comes vnto thee. Enlarge the place of thy tent, and stretch out the skinnes of thy Tabernacles, spare not, make long thy cords, and fasten thy nailes. behold, thou doest penetrate to the right hand, and to the left; thou art dilated to the East, and to the West, and to the North, and to the South. The Gentiles doe walke by thy light, and Kings in the brightnes of thy rising. Kings are thy nourcing Fathers, and Queenes thy Nources. The children of them that hum­bled thee come crouching now ād adore the stepps of thy feete. Thy God hath established thee [Page 196] his throne as the dayes of heauen, and hath made thee the pride of worlds a ioy vnto generation and generation; thou art a crowne of glorie in the hand of our Lord, and the Diademe of a kingdome in the hand of thy God.

50. This Church, the SPOWSE of Iesus Christ, holding in her hand the BOOKE OF GOD, doth contemplate and behold therin as in a glasse, her OWNE SELF: she beholds there her owne greatnes, her owne proportion, her owne face▪ And (such is the rare puritie and perfection of this glasse) shee beholds there also her doctrine, her inwarde composition, her life and sowle. The proposition of the Obiect is su­pernaturallie made vnto her in most cleere and euident circumstances: And by the in­fallible operation of the All-teaching Spirit she is directed in her act. By these two power­full certaine meanes, she is so constātly setled in her faith, that if the world shrink vnder feete, shee will not leaue the truth. Repeate now the first Chapter, and reade there in PROPHECIE that which worlds of people since haue beheld with their EIES, and still do: reade I saie, and consider it dili­gentlie, to the end you may see how one is verified in the other; that Prophecie in this Church, and this Church in that Prophecie: And [Page 197] hereby you will vnderstand at leingth by gods grace, both that Prophecie and this Church to be from one, and the same cause and prime author, whose prouidence and power are so vniuersallie eminent that none can frustrate his designe, or hinder an euent which he foretold: and therfore both diuine, and both from God.

51. From this Church and from no other I take my direction for eternitie. My owne witte might runne amisse; I might mistake in the estimation of the Spirit in mee, if I went alone: And I were mistaken manifestlie if I followed any that swarued from the Spirit of this communitie. And an other communitie like this, the world neuer sawe. The consent of so many worlds of people in an obscure Creede▪ is an euident argument of a superna­turall cause vniting their vnderstandings,It was ouer the world be­fore Con­stantine: and yet all Princes were a­gainst it▪ in this consent; and consequently of a diuine Spi­rit mouing them. For, all these Nations were neuer (much lesse all this tyme of sixteene hundred yeers) actualy subiect to any one Prince or State: and the light of nature doth vnite many in one principle or Conclusion, but by way of euidence which is not here in our Creede. Further, wee knowe that Schol­lers neuer yet agreed so generallie in things subiect vnto the naturall power of their vnder­standing: [Page 198] neither can any man aliue finde out or assigne and defend against a Scholler, any naturall cause of this vnitie in beleefe. The in­finite miracles illustrious and vndeniable in this Church are an euident argument that the Author of nature is in it, changing the com­mon course of things, to the astonishment of the world, thereby to drawe the eies of all vppon this Companie, where they may see, and learne the seruice of their Creator. The vniformity of this Companie of Gentiles to the descriptiō made before in Prophecie, and the Reprobation of the Iewish Nation, left now without Temple, without Sacrifice, without Prophet, without miracle, without any argument of Gods presence, and true ser­uice amonge them, are an euident argument that this Companie and the Messias Church described in the Scripture, are all one. VVhere­fore worthily did our predecessors and wee doe worthily rest in the communion of this companie. And since mortall man with his industrie cā goe no higher nor better resolue himself in diuine and heauenly [...]ires, being heere arriued, he meetes with Gods proui­dence to conduct him to securitie,

Is a man moued to beleeue by example ād consent? here are worlds in our communion, and this so ample as the like is no were to be [Page 199] foūd. Is he moued with Miracles? here are in­finite. The blinde see, the lame walke, the deade arise: and of this wee haue as greate eui­dence as man can desire. Is he moued with the common and vniforme resolution of the learned? heere are generall Decrees made in Councells Oecumenicall by the wisest of all the world: the prime Schollers and grauest men comming togeather from all places, to discusse and to determine. Is he moued with Antiquity? the Reuerence of elder times is all with vs: heere are Gregories, and Chrysostōs, and Augustines, and Basils, and Ephrems, and Cyrills, and Cyprians, and Iustines, and others innumerable. Is he moued by Gods word? it is flatly and vnansweareably on our side. A­theists, children can answere, they erre so grosly against the light of nature. The Iewes are forced to see with their owne eies the Prophecies of the Messias and his Kingdome, fullfilled in Iesus Christ and his Church. And this Church to be the Catholique, yeauen that which is now, and hath ben euer in the Com­munion of the Roman See, is so cleere, that de­nying of it all Histories, all Bookes, all Mo­numents, all Memorie must be denied: and nothing be confessed for true which euer yet hath beene on earth. Denying of it you may allso denie that there was euer Iewish Na­tion, [Page 200] or Roman Emperour, or Heathen Idol: you may as well deny that Rome, Constanti­nople, London, are or euer were.

THE SIXT CHAPTER. What meant by a Catholique.

52. BEfore I goe on to your Obiections, be­cause the place is verie fitte, and the thing necessarie to be obserued, and borne in minde, I will tell you what I meane by a Ca­tholicke, which question is here answeared, without difficultie. You haue seene the Ca­tholique Church, that is the congregation of Christians in communion at all tymes with the See of Rome, by a Catholique man, I meane one who beleeues the Creede of this Church, one of this comunion: ād euerie one which did here­tofore embrace this communion was a Ca­tholique, so long as he did embrace it, and died a Catholique if he died in it. In the commu­nion with this Church, is included a Vnion with it: which vnion is founded in a confor­mitie, or vniformitie of faith and iudgment in diuine matters. And this was in all those who did resolue their beleefe into the proposition or iudgment of this Church. For, he who submittes his iudgment whollie to the Church, and beleeues as she telles him readie [Page 201] to beleeue more, if she declare her selfe more fullie, and to condemne all doctrine which she cōdemnes, is vndiuided from the Church in iudgment, and therefore vniforme.

53. Hence it comes also that not onelie those who liued at one tyme, were of our com­munion, but such also as liued in diuers ages: because the following age did receaue the doctrine, and generall decrees of the precedēt, beleeuing all which was then by the Church beleeued, and condemning such o­pinions as they condemned. By this meanes wee doe also communicate with them all as perfectlie in the disposition of our soule, and redines of our vnderstanding, as if wee had liued with them. Hēce it is, that wee admitte all the Councelles that were generallie re­ceaued by the Church in their tyme; and are sufficientlie moued therunto by the iudgmēt of the Church, which then receaued them. For, wee resolue our iudgment into the iudgment of the Church, and that is our rule vnder God, who is the prime rule, and highest Ob­iect of our faith.

You will be readie to make an other vse of some part of this discourse, but you cannot▪ for you make your owne choise of that which you beleeue, and doe not submitte your iudgment to the iudgment of Gods [Page 202] Church. Wee acknowledge diuine assistance in Church-proposition as I haue said before, and this doth euery Catholique: which is the reason why wee are all of one religion, though wee liue at seuerall tymes. Out of this comes the Catholique Vnion, or vnitie which is most ample, reaching into all Na­tions, and through all tymes: which kind of vnitie depending on the Churches mouth as on a subordinate cause and rule, but princi­pallie on the all-teaching Spiritte directing to reuealed ve [...]ities as on an infinite and immoueable principle, (as hereafter I will shew) is peculiar to the Church of God. Aske any man of our religion, on whose iud­gment he relies in matters of faith, and he will answeare that he relies on the iudgment of the Church; and if you aske further, on whom the whole Church of this age hath dependence for exterior proposition of matters of faith, I answeare that this whole age resolues it selfe into the precedent age, and that into the pre­cedent, and so vpwardes to the first, which age did resolue it selfe into the Apostle pro­position, and they resolued their faith into the proposition of our Sauiour, who came into the world to this purpose, and he Cour, Sauiour) being the naturall sonne of God, did cleerlie behould all truth with an infinite [Page 203] vnderstanding. And there staies the resolu­tion, hauing made a full compasse, and retur­ned thether where this veritie first was. For, all truth is first in the diuine vnderstanding, and thence reuealed manie wayes, as it hath pleased that originall goodnes, the eternall Father: as by prophettes in ould tyme; and af­ter by his Sonne Iesus Christ; who did instruct his Church, and bequeathed an euerlasting assi­stance, to beare in minde, and to deliuer truelie this lesson to future ages. Hence it came, that this instruction or word, which he put into her mouth, hath not yet gotte out of it, nor will to the worldes end.

54, I had made a full point, and was going on to the next Chapter; but I remembred with whom I am now againe dealing, and that I am to repeate the same things ouer more then once, hauing for the same reason also contented my selfe with verie few things among infinite which might be said for our cause. My chiefe intention therefore in this second booke was, onelie to declare which companie of people in all the world, is the Church Catholique, or the Church answea­ring to Gods eternall decree declared by the Prophets. And I haue prooued it to be that companie which is and hath bene euer in the cōmunion of the See of Rome. This cōpanie [Page 204] of Beleeuers is the Church described in Gods word, and no other companie distinct from this whatsoeuer it be is the Church there des­cribed. In the proofe of this I haue taken such groūds as are vndeniable; as, the knowne cō ­munion of Nations, the like being no where found; the Testimonie of worlds of people; the Confession of the most learned Aduersa­ries that wee haue, or euer had since Luther came; The Euidence of generall Councelles, and the knowne Opposition of all confessed Heretiques in all tymes to this Church, and to no other. These grounds or arguments I take so farre only as they are manifestlie vn­deniable, and no further: and to prooue that which your owne fellowes and your Masters doe yeeld vnto, ād though most vnwillinglie, haue confessed in their books. That is, I take them to declare that the Church in commu­nion with the See of Rome is and hath bene euer the Church described by the Prophets, and that no other answearable to that des­cription is any where els to be found. VVhen you answeare this Booke, I will haue no other thing answeared in this place but this. Keepe the question all a part and distinct, that such as reade our papers may knowe when one matter is ended or agreed vppon; and doe not thrust other things in [Page 205] heere. If you graunt it, Saie so. If you doe not, speake directlie to this point, in this place, and of no other. I will not heare of erring, or not erring in funda­mentalls or not fundamentalls. I haue no­thing to doe with that, It shall haue a place a part: I looke onelie which is the Church answearing to the description, whether it be subiect to errour in any thing, or be not, whether it doth erre actuallie, or euer hath actuallie bene in errour. I meddle not here with that. The thing described in Prophecie, the substance of the thing, the Church I looke for, and haue found her by her proportion, by her face: it is not yours, it is ours.

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER. Wherin answeare is giuen to some exceptions made against the Vniuersalitie of the Church.

THe Arguments which you and your abotters make against the foresaid vniuersality of the Church,S. Aug. de Vnit. Eccl. c. 12. are answeared easily. And whereas, first as Donatists hereto­fore did allso, you plead for your pouertie ād paucitie of adherentes, that there are fewe chozen, and the world full of fooles: I confesse there are to many fooles indeede, and haue bene euer, if you consider the whole collection of all kinde of Heretickes, together with Paganes, and Atheistes: the number whereof being infinite, the world may be said to be full. But what is this to the purpose, since the Catholique Church not­withstanding spreds it selfe into all Natiōs, ād makes some of euery nation (and those verie many also) wise, many being called by the Pa­stors, by the Apostles, by God to Christianitie frō all natiōs, amōg which many though they receaue the word, and for a tyme doe well, doe flinch in tyme of temptation, and fall of be­fore the end, and so they be fooles too, and [Page 207] with the foolish virgines be shut out of hea­uē. But yet notwithstanding all this, there are in the Catholique Church some wise of all nations, tongues, and people, more then can be numbred, which infalliblie will gaine the crowne of glorie.

56. An other exception you make against our Church because it doth not cōmunicate with all Christians, as with your cōgregation for exāple. Whereunto I answeare that to the Churches vniuersalitie, communion with Heretickes, ād Schismatiques is not necessarie, but cōmunion with, or in all Natiōs, and this communion the Romā Church with the rest adherent hath. With Heretiques wee will not communicate, and doe herein follow the in­struction of our Sauiour, and Sainct Paule. And accordīglie the Church in former tymes would not communicate with Arians, Euno­mians, Nestorians: or with Armenians, Gre­ciās, Aethiopiās, or others at such tyme as they were in errour. Neither was this communion necessarie to the vniuersalitie of the Church, as I said before, because it is not necessarie that it communicate with all persones in the world, but with all Nations. Nor it is necessarie that the Churches communion, be at once in all nations, and so continue: but that in the compasse of her tyme it be in all. And thus is our Religion Catholique which [Page 208] hath bene in all Nations one tyme, or other, that hetherto haue bene Christian, which can be truelie said of noe other: and by her great power of conuerting Nations is going on to possesse the rest of the Nations that are on earth.

56. Thirdly you except against the generali­tie of some Councelles, wherūto the Greeke Church then deuided, would not come. But this is noe hindrance to the cause; for to the generalitie of a Councell, noe more can be required possiblie for persones, them the pre­sence and consent of the Bysshopes in com­munion with the Catholique Church, since Catholique Pastors, not heretiques, are to be heard, followed, and obaied in matters of faith and religion. These doe succeed in the promise made to the Apostles, and their suc­cessors to the worldes end, and in them is the whole teaching authoritie of the Church-present vnto the tyme wherin they are, whether they be more or not so many as were some age before. In particular to that of the Grecians I answeare that their cōsent was not necessarie to the generalitie of the Coū ­celles held in the tyme they liued in Schisme and Heresie, and therefore without them the Councell was Oecumenicall: for that Coun­cell is Oecumenicall which doth include the [Page 209] authoritie of the presēt Catholique Church. It is not requisite that all Bisshops which euer were, should be raised againe to life to sitt in Councell, nor that such as in after ages are to come, should be borne afore their tyme, to make a Councell generall: neither is it necessarie to call in Heretiques of all sortes. It is sufficiēt to call the Bysshopes of the Ca­tholique communion then liuinge, when the Councell is to be held.

The Grecians in the tyme of their Schis­me, were not of your religion, as you haue heard from their owne mouthes, when you offered vnion: and in your owne iudgment they held heresie, as that is of the procession of the holie Ghost from the Father onelie. They returned also to the communion of the Catholique Church, as you may see in the Councell of Lions, and Florence, where East and west agreed in doctrine against your he­resie: and before their Schisme they had bene in the communion of the Church a thou­sand yeares wel neere. Of Indians and Arme­nians you know by this what I will saie, and it is not necessarie to runne ouer the same a­gaine.

57. A fourth exception is, that all nations be not at one time in the Church because some are Pagā, some Hereticke. And hence would [Page 210] you make a mā haue a scruple in reciting that part of his Creed wherin he doth professe to beleeue the Catholique Church then existent when he saies his Creede. Notwithstanding this obiectiō, the Creed was said in the Apo­stles tyme, by such as were in their visible cō ­munion, and must, and will be said as long as the world endures: and he that saieth it, if he beleeues Gods word and promise, may se­curely ād must beleeue that still there is a Ca­tholique Church, which Church hath com­munion with all Natiōs: though this commu­nion in all the latitude be not existent at that tyme, but some was before, some is to follow after: as the Church it selfe taken whollie, is not existent all at one tyme, but successiuelie to the worldes end, it being the collectiō of all Catholiques which euer were, are, ād will be.

Orbis mi­ratus est se fact [...] esse Arianum Dial. con. Lucif.58. A fift is made out of an exagge­ration of Sainct Ieromes. To the gro­und and occasion of the speach, which was the act of the Bishops in the Councell ⁴¹ [Page 211] of Ariminium (neuer approued by the See Apostolike, nor euer acknowledged for law­full by the Church, and by your selues also reiected) I answeare that there was noe cause of feare that the Church should by that acte be all deceaued and erre in faith; for the Church hath alwayes the assistance of the holie Ghost, to preserue her from errour in faith, by couenant of God the Father, and promise of God the sonne, as in the next bo­oke you shall heare at large. Neither wanted there at any tyme learned men who knew that a Councell wanting the consent of the See Apostolique was not Oecumenical pro­perlie, nor an infallible rule of faith.

58. If you plead against the visibilitie of our Church with this obiectiō; it is weake, for the Arians euer found opponēts and those visible, such as at last wonne the field. If you plead with it against the vniuersalitie of the Church it is also weake: and impertinent. it is imperti­nent as it comes from you, because those A­rians were not Protestantes, and therfore their number makes nothing for the vniuer­salitie of your cause. And it is also weake; be­cause their communion was neuer with all Nations, nor did euer equall the vniuersalitie of the Church. Which is euident, because the Catholique communion was elder by [Page 212] three hunderd yeares and was in that tyme spred ouer all Christendome, and hath continued after Arianisme is gone these many hundred yeeres in the communion of the Christian world; and more Natiōs haue bene since conuerted to it, and are dailie, and so will be till she hath bene in the communion of them all. If therfore you will measure both, take each communion in her greatest latitude of tyme and place or Nations; and you will presentlie see Arianisme to be too narrowe and too short: as not hauing possessed so ma­ny Nations, nor dured so longe a tyme. Much lesse will you find, that, begining the same tyme, it ranne side by side in an equall or a fuller streame through all ages to this daie and were so to continue: if you intended this I should suspect your braine.

59. Touching the comparison of it to that part of the Church at least which was at that tyme; you thinke it so filled all places of the Christian world that Catholiques had noe roome. This errour is of ignorance, you may amend it if you inquire of some who did liue then. If I should bring many testimonies, you would saie I were tedious in matter of histo­rie, and therfore will content my selfe, and you also if you be reasonable, with one from many Authors. S. Athanasius a man beyond [Page 213] exception, together with diuers Bysshopes of Aegypt, Thebais and Libia, wrote to Iouiā the Emperour, of the Nicene faith thus: Know certainely, ap. Theo­doret. l. 4. c. 3. most holie Emperour that this same faith hath bene published from all memorie of ages: this the holie fathers assembled at Nice haue confirmed, to this haue assented all Churches euerie where, as of Spaine, of Britanie, of France, of all Italie, of Dalmatia, of Mysia, of Macedonia, and all Greece, and all the Churches of Africke, Sardinia, Cyprus, Creete, Pāphilia, Lycia, Isauria, and the Churches of Aegypt, Lybia, Pontus, Cappa­docia, and the Churches of the bordering countryes, and finallie the Churches of the east some fewe ex­cepted which doe fauour the Arian sect; for wee doe certainelie know the sentence of them all, and haue receaued letters from them, and doe know certainlie most holie Emperour, that although a fewe doe contradict this faith, the whole world can­not suffer preiudice therby.

60. Sixtly you oppose vnto vs want of vnitie. I answeare that all Catholiques doe submit their vnderstandings to the iugment of the Church and to the generall decrees of their Pastores, and masters, readie to beleeue whatsoeuer they generallie in Councells doe define, and to reiect whatsoeuer they con­demne; and by these meanes are vnited per­fectlie vnto those Councelles, and to the [Page 202] whole Church in faith and iudgment about religion: each man in the Church hauing his vnderstanding vndeuided in beleefe from the Church, and so being one with it: Vnitie con­sisting in Indiuision as you haue learned of the philosopher lōge agoe. Our Councelles like­wise are one in doctrine, as the partes of Scri­ptures are (though they be not Scripture, but declarations of Gods word) that is they are vndiuided: there being amōgst thē all noe op­position or dissent in decrees and definitiōs, ād the later receauing what hath bene formerlie defined, wherof hereafter I will discourse a part, because as Iulian, Porphyrie and others thought they sawe cōtradictions in the Scri­pture, so you haue imagined the like of Coū ­celles, though nothing so many, nor haueing that shew, as those had which by the foresaid infidelles were obiected; and if you know not so much, you are not of that reading your frindes haue taken you to be. To your argu­mente I saie therfore that this companie hath vnitie in beleefe: noe man at all in the compa­nie being diuided from the rest in beleefe, howsoeuer about thinges vndefinied and vn­determined by the Church in their tyme there might be diuersitie of opinions ād may be now in the like, as he knowes that [Page 215] hath bene a weeke in the Schooles of de­uinitie. The same companie hath original­lie likewise vnitie in religion, and faith, each vnderstanding in the whole mysticall bodie, being submitted to the same iudge of cōtrouersies, that is to Gods Spiritte in the Church Catholique; and acknowledging this one Spiritte and this one Church, and this one Spiritte in this one Church iudging, defi­ninge, determining, ruling all. VVhich common vnion and consent in one, makes their communion, so generall, so firme, and so conspicuous as you are faine to see with your eies against your will.

61. A seuenth argument is made against succession, and it is obiected that wee haue noe succession of Catholiques, or of such as wee are. I answeare, that the Ca­tholique religion and Church is that whose communion is with all Nations, as you haue heard: and a Catholicke is a man who doth resolue his faith into this Church, and into the Spiritte which doth assist and teach it; such were all who did receaue the Generall Councelles be­fore spoken of, and the doctrine of the Church present to the tymes wherein [Page 216] they liued, which were infinite, and such will be to the worldes end. If you will haue some assigned more particularly that you may dispute against them, I name whole assemblies of pastors in Generall Councell. I name the Generall Councells mentioned heretofore. In them was our Suc­cession, and the Catholique Church in them was conspicuous, and worlds of people did communicate with them. This is a succession because they were not all at one tyme; and a Catholique succession, because the commu­nion of Nations was with them: and with their faith and their Decrees.

61. Other obiections you haue against the truth of the doctrine which this Church doth maintaine: But the chiefest of them are allready answeared in another place: And hereafter I will proue at large that the Ca­tholique Church onelie hath the assistance of the all teaching Spiritte, and therfore cannot be condemned of errour by any meanes ex­tant in the world whatsoeuer: noe iudgment being of greater or of equall authoritie with hers, by reason of the Spiritte which doth teach her all truth.

THE FIRST CHAPTER. Proouing diuine Assistance in the Ca­tholike Church.

1. HAVING declared sufficient­lie which is the Church, it followes next that wee speake of the diuine assistance in be­leeuing and teaching; which assistance the sonne of God hath promised vnto it. Catholiques as I haue said before, doe resolue their iudgment into, the iudg­ment of the Church, and the iudgment of the Church doth relie vppon the assistance of the holie Ghost, by whose prouidence it is preserued from erring in the p [...]oposition of diuine faith. This assistance in Church-proposition wee beleeue, and that you must [Page 219] also grant, and beleeue it, I am now to prooue. You will not denie that men are to be instructed trulie, in faith an diuine mat­ters, for how shall they liue as Christians ought, vnles they beleeue rightlie, and how shall they beleeue rightlie, if they be not well taught and instructed? how shall they inuocate (saith the Apostle) in whome they haue not beleeued? Rom. 10.14. and how shall they beleeue in whō they haue not heard, or how shall they heare without a preacher? it cannot be. For no man of himselfe is able to finde out, or to discouer the mysteries of our faith; the Trinitie; the Incarnation of the Sonne of God; the Scriptures, and their meaning. It is therefore necessarie that men be instructed in matters of faith.

2. And since instruction is necessarie (as wee also by experience know) this instru­ction must be looked for in some Schoole and from some masters or instructors. The question therefore comes presentlie about this teaching Schoole, which and where it is, that a man there may be in­structed. To this question the answeare is easie: first it is not the companie of Athiests or Pagans, for their doctrine and in­struction is not holie and diuine. Secondlie it is [Page 20] not the companie of Iewes, for their doctrine is not Christian. Thirdlie it is not the companie of confessed Heretiques; therefore it is the Church, for the Church is the Schoole of Iesus Christ: and which this is, I haue declared in the former booke. This supposed I reason thus for diuine assistance.

3. It belongs to the prouidence of allmigh­tie God to assist that Schoole in which by his will and ordinance the whole world is to be instructed in diuine matters and Religion: Therefore it belongs to Gods prouidence to Arg. 1 assist the Church, for the Church is the said Schoole, as I declared before. The argument is cleere and needs no further confirmation. but least you seeke to escape it (if it be vrged by one that is no Scholler) with some fonde distinction, I note here that the Spirit doth assist to beleeue and to teach. The first of these acts is in the vnderstanding, and interior: the second is publique or exterior, and in the mouth. The Spirit doth assist the Church both wayes, that is to beleeue, and to teach: but the argument doth proceede here of assi­stance to the later, to teach: because faith accor­ding to S. Paul doth suppose instruction or teaching: ād euery one should haue faith, for without faith it is impossible to please God, and [Page 221] he that beleeueth not shall be condemned. Hebr. 11. Mar. 16. More­ouer you knowe that for resolution in diuine matters, it is necessarie that a man knowe where to seeke instruction, whom he may se­curelie followe, in whose iudgment he may rest, in whome and where the Spirit of God doth speake. This is the thinge wee looke for, and this thing is in noe other companie but the Schoole of Iesus Christe the Church.

4. It may be you will say that a man desi­rous of instruction should come to you. But this will not satisfie, for what should a man haue done before Luther, when Protestants were not, nor your Religion thought vppon as I haue seene allreadie in the first booke. He might haue gone ouer all the world to looke for your Church and lost his labour. But deale plainlie with vs and declare your minde, is there any congregation in the world whose instruction one may securelie fellowe, or no? if there be not, what course should vnlearned men take to learne the truth? shall they beleeue without preachers? If there be which is it, and whence hath it that it may be followed? of it selfe? or from the Spirit? you can answeare nothinge, but the Spirit: and this Spirit, not in Athiests, nor in Iewes, nor in confessed Heretiques, [Page 222] but in the Church. And thus much for those who seeke instruction.

5. I prooue secondlie this assistance by the necessitie of a Iudge to determine contro­uersies Arg. 2 in matter of Religion. Since the Scri­pture is obscure in many places, and since Heresies do and must arise in the world, it is necessarie that there be some Visible meanes able and sufficient to determine controuer­sies, which meanes can be no other, but the proposition and iudgmēt of the Church. For, being visible, and intelligent, able to heare, examine and define the controuersies, it must needs consist of men, not of meere Spirits, or of insensible creatures: and if it consist of men these men must not be Athiests, or enemies to the Christian doctrine, such as are Pagans, Iewes, and confessed Heretiques, and the­refore they must be the Church, or that part of it which is to teach. The iudge of contro­uersies therefore is the Church. Whence it followes that the holie Spirit doth assist her in this act of determining controuersies in matter of faith, directing her vnderstāding to cōceaue the meaning of Gods word, and pre­seruing her from errour in the proposition of it. This discourse you cannot denie with any shewe of probabilitie, for there is no meanes to make an end of controuersies among men, [Page 223] if the iudgment of the Church be neglected, or be not certaine ād infallible: if the Spirit of truth be not in the Church it is in none at all; if it doth not teach the Church, it doth teach none; if it doth not direct the Church to vn­derstand Gods word, it directeth none; if it doth not assist the Church when she for the generall good of the Christian world doth determine a controuersie of faith, it doth assist none at all: for all the promise made by our Sauiour Iesus Christ of assistāce, is made vnto the Church, and the onelie meanes which men haue vnder heauē to be informed of the truth is by recourse vnto it, vnto the Church, and to the Spiritte in her.

6. I will descend vnto particulars, and make it more manifest. A man beleeuing or knowing that there is a God, would gladlie heare what he hath imparted to men of the truth, and therfore inquires for Gods word, he would esteeme himselfe happie if he could be certainlie directed to it, and not cozened with other things in steed of it, with forged Gospells and Epistles: To this mā the Church doth giue satisfaction by reaching him the Bible and assuring him that she knowes it to be Gods word, by the assistance and testimo­nie of the diuine Spiritte, which protectes [Page 225] her from errour in beleefe: and this promise she had from Iesus Christ, who by miracles, by prophecies, and other sufficient meanes prooued himselfe to be the Sonne of God. You on the otherside, who denie this certain­tie and assistance, can giue him no satisfactiō in the world. Next opening this booke he finds it hard, as containing many obscure passages about the Trinitie, the Incarnation, the death of Christ, his resurrection, the sacrament of his bodie and blood &c. to this the Church answears him directlie, and tells him the sense of God, assuring him as before, that she by the assistance of the diuine Spiritte left vn­to her doth know is to be so. You leaue him without satisfaction, to the dishonour of Ie­sus Christ whose wisedome you call in que­stion withall, whilst you denie, that he proui­ded meanes for men to be informed of his doctrine, and of the waie to serue God.

7. You are more sensible, peraduenture in examples neerer home (though these which I haue put cōcearne euerie man very neerelie) I therefore put you in particular in the bu­sines, and on the other side put my selfe. The question betwixt you and me is, whether the visible Church be iudge of controuersies and infallible, or be not▪ what meanes to end [Page 226] it? your witte? why rather then mine? or why either, since the matter is diuine? The Spirit­te? why in you rather then in me? especiallie since I am in the communion of the Church and you not, as I haue allreadie prooued: or ra­ther whie the Spiritte in either rather then the Spiritte in the Church? I am a part, that is the whole. I am to learne and by Gods grace haue the Spirite to be taught and directed, in the Church are my Pastors and I must heare them by the commaund of my Sauiour, why then shall I not beleeue, that when the voice of them all is one, it is the voice of my Sauiour Iesus Christ. Other things allso you question, as whether it be in the hart onelie to beleeue, or in the mouth allso to teach and to professe? whether the promise be executed inuisiblie onelie and in the hart of the predestinate, and no where els, or visiblie also by publique pro­position and profession of the truth. These and infinite other controuersies wee haue with you, ād with your fellowes now adayes, and what meanes are there to finde the truth? if you say your witte, or the Spiritte, I replie as before, and am certaine that in fine no thing can be brought but the Spiritte, nor this pretended howsoeuer, but existent by Gods promise in the Church.^*

[Page 228]8. Thirdlie this assistance doth efficaciously follow out of Gods eternall ordinance and decree about the Church, which ordinance and decree he hath reuealed in holie writte. All powerfull and wise persones intending Arg. 3 resolutelie an End, do ordaine likewise effica­ciouse meanes to compasse and effect it. Since therfore allmightie God hath intended reso­lutelie to raise a Church out of all Nations, as I haue declared in the former booke, [...]. Book. 1. Chapt. ād since the meanes to doe this is infallible propositiō of the truth, it followeth that he hath ordai­ned infallible propositiō there of; which pro­position being not by externes, but by the Church, it remaines that the Church-proposi­tiō is infallible. Your āsweare is that the propo­sitiō made to the elect is infallible, but not the proposition made to the rest. I replie that the [Page 229] proposition which I speake of, that is the ex­teriour proposition is one and the same in it selfe and made to all: but the elect make good vse of it, others do not. To put this in example for vnderstanding of it▪ you knowe that our Sa­uiour did preach openlie, and his doctrine was instruction for the elect and was infallible, but reprobates did heare it allso. Good and bad heard the Apostles preach, and their doctrine was the same; all men cast their eies on the Scripture, and the decrees of Generall Coun­cells are proposed vnto all. These all are meanes ordained by allmightie God for the instruction of his elect, and therfore by his perpetuall watch are kept infallible, though reprobates heare and see the same, but make not of them such vse as they ought.

9. But to speake of the elect particularly, since you desire it, I demaund of you whether God doth prouide exteriour proposition of diuine faith and pure and solide truth for them, or no? if you graunt he doth I haue that which I intend, for noe man is so mad as to thinke he doth imploie infideles and not his Church in this busines, ād if he doth imploy the Church in it, he keepes her from erring in the proposi­tion; that so the true doctrine may be conuaied into the harts of his electe; if you denie that he doth prouide and dispose things so that the [Page 230] true doctrine be exteriorlie proposed vnto his elect, how then doe they beleeue? you must studie hard to resolue the question,Rom. 10.14. for the A­postle thought it could not be. And why do you trouble your selues to preach and write bookes? perhappes you haue some other end. but why did almightie God sēd prophettes into the world, ād afterwards his owne sōne? why did our Sauiour sende Apostles to teach Nations, if this were not necessarie for the in­struction of Gods elect? why did God ordaine pastors and teachers and promise that his words should neuer out of their mouthes?Ephes. 4. Isay. 59. why were the Gospells and the Epistles written, and the assistance of the holie Ghost why was it promised vnto the Apostles and their successors? why all this, if exterior pro­position be not necessarie for Gods people? and why rather doth not euerie man bid adue to pastors, Apostles, Bible, and all exterior meanes, and expect to be illuminated and in­structed inwardlie and priuatelie about hea­uen and diuine thinges? Thus euerie man might be master in religion, iudge in contro­uersies, and a Church vnto himselfe.

10. I will not repeate what you saie aboute the rule of scripture for that I haue said allrea­die, and hath bene obiected vnto you oft, is more then all your fellowes could euer ans­weare [Page 231] yet, as that without the iudgment of Gods Spiritte in the Church men cannot be certaine which is Gods word, and what is the sense: and therfore you must yeeld at last that the Church is assisted in proposing di­uine things by the Spiritte of Allmightie God.

11.c. 1. A fourth argument I make out of the promises of perpetuitie made vnto the Church, and related in the former booke. He­resie Arg. 4 destroies faith, if therfore the whole Church were fallen into Heresie, it were fallne allso frō the faith, it were no more the Church, as that is no more a man, which hath not a sowle. Since therfore it is cleere by the testimonie of God himselfe, that the Church cannot faile, it is certaine allso, that is cannot fall from faith, and therfore that Gods proui­dence doth perpetuallie assist it to the conser­uation of the faith. You answeare that the whole Church may fall from Charitie and from the loue of God, and therfore from faith allso. This would not follow in termes, be­cause loue doth suppose faith, and therfore (if God had not otherwise ordained) might be gone and leaue it behind, as it doth oft in par­ticular men. And peraduenture your selfe do not loue euerie one you knowe, or if you do, euerie bodie doth not so: wherfore loue and [Page 232] knowledge may be parted. But omitting this, I replie that your affirmation is against the authoritie of holie Scripture.Ierem. 31.33. This shall be the couenant which I will make with the howse of Israel saith our Lord (speaking of the Catholique Church) I will giue my lawe in their bowells, and in their hart I will write it, Ezech. 37.26. and I will be their God and they shall be my people. I will giue my sancti­fication in the middest of them for euer: and my ta­bernacle shall be in them &c. I will despouse thee to me for euer: and I will despouse thee to me in iustice and iudgment, Osee 2.19.20. and in mercie and commiserations: and I will despowse thee to me in faith, and thou shalt know that I am the lord. By this you haue that the Catholique Church can neuer be se­parated from the loue of Christ, howsoeuer some particular members of it may, as some partes of a mans bodie many be without sēse, though the whole can neuer be without it. And hence I confirme further the infallibili­tie before mētioned, for holines doth include freedome from errour and constancie in the faith: but the Church of God is holie allwaies as here you haue heard, and in the Creed you professe to beleeue it; therfore it is allwayes free from errour.

12. The fift way to prooue the said assistance is the continuall presence of our Sauiour, and thus the discourse is made. If the Apostles [Page 233] and their successors haue the assistance of our Arg. 5 Sauiour to the preaching of the Gospell and ministring of the Sacraments continuallie till the worlds end, then hath the Church diuine assistance, since the Apostles and their succes­sors be the Church, and our Sauiour God. But the Apostles and their successors haue this as­sistance of our Sauiour, as the words of the Gospell do prooue and manifest, where our Sauiour to his disciples said.Matth. 28 18.19.20. All power is giuen to me in heauen and in earth, going therfore teach yee all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne, ād of the holie Ghost, tea­ching them to obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue commaunded you, ād behold I am with you all daies euen to the consummation of the world. You know that a coexistence of two things to the end of the world, includes the existence of each of them all that tyme. I was not with you all the yeere, because I came awaie before it was halfe donne. Since therfore the Apostles had not existence here on earth all the dayes till the worlds ēd, which is not yet come though they be dead and gone many hundred yeares agoe, it followes that our Sauiour speakes allso in them to their successors, and consequently to the Church in all ages whilst the world doth endure. And by this meanes I haue what I desire in this place that I neede looke no fur­ther, [Page 234] first the assistance in these words I am with you, before which our blessed Sauiour not ignorant of the difficultie which you would make in this matter put an ecce, behold I am with you. I haue secondlie the parties whome he doth assist, to witt the Apostles, which were the Church and in them their successors whilst the world endures that is the Church in all ages, in these words, I am with you all the dayes euen to the consummation of the world. I haue thirdlie the obiect of the assi­stance, that is, to what kinde of acts, and how farre it doth extend, teach all nations baptizing thē &c. teaching thē to obserue all things whatsoe­uer I haue commaūded you. Fourthlie I haue here continuall assistance to visible acts, for such are preaching ād baptizing, ād these are visible to all natiōs since all natiōs are to heare these thīgs, ād to be baptized; ād since all nations doe not heare and receaue baptisme at one tyme as wee see by experience, but some one tyme, some another, since allso the assistance to these actes is perpetuall, and therfore the actes themselues perpetuallie found in the world, it is manifest euen by this promise without going further that there is in the world a per­petuall visible Church. Fiftlie that our Sa­uiour cā thus assist howsoeuer he doth bringe it about, I haue in these words al power is gi­uen [Page 235] to me in heauen and in earth. So that if wee beleeue Iesus Christ, no further doubt can be made of this assistance.

13. Out of the former comes another which is grounded in the obligation Christians haue to heare their pastors, and to beleeue their do­ctrine, and it shall be the sixt which I will make thus. If all the people in the world be Arg. 6 obliged vnder paine of eternall damnation to beleeue the doctrine which the Church, that is, the Apostles and their successors do teach, it belongs to the goodnes and prouidence of God thus obliging them to haue a care that it be right ād true, otherwise he would oblige them to erre and liue amisse, which is against the goodnes and therfore against the nature of allmightie God. But it is true that all the people in the world are thus obliged as I prooue by the words of our Sauiour in sainct Marke. Going into the world preach the Gospell to all creatures, Mar. 16. v. 15.16. he that beleeueth and is baptized shall be saued: but he that beleeueth not shall be condem­ned. Out of this argument followeth yet further, that the Church cannot erre in any thing of faith, whether it be fundamentall, or not fundamentall, incurable, or curable, great or little: for the people are to beleeue that which the Church doth teach, and thus God doth warrant in the place here alleaged, and ther­fore [Page 236] it appertaines vnto his prouidēce to assist and protect the Church so, that it neuer teach errour in steede of Gods word.

14. The seauenth argument I make out of the iudgment of all Christiās before Luther touching the foresaid obligation to beleeue the Church, and the diuine spirit in it. And here I except onelie such as your selfe shall confesse to haue bene Heretiques, and pro­ceede thus. Generall Councells did allwayes Arg. 7 beleeue that the Church was to be beleeued, and that it had diuine assistance, and therfore did accurse all those who beleeued the con­trarie to the Church. This you know by their acts, and canons. The people in com­munion with these Councells did beleeue the same which the Councells did, and recea­ued that which they defined. The fathers, Saint Augustine, Saint Hierome and the rest did the same. And the same did all the predestinate who liued in the communion of the Church, takinge their instruction from the mouth of the Church, and belee­uing as the Church did. which is fur­ther manifest because those are damned who beleeued not the Church, as hath bene proo­ued in the former argument out of Sauiours words: since therfore the predestinate are [Page 237] saued, it remaines vndeniable that they did beleeue the Church.

15. And here because you some tymes when you haue dronke to much of the cuppe of selfe loue, do thinke that you en­tertaine the holie Ghost better then any of our religion haue done, especiallie since you last were in heauen, and read your name there in the booke of life, I oppose spiritte vnto spiritte, I oppose vnto you the knowne Saints of our Religion both late and ancient, and obiect vnto you the Spiritte which was in them. You haue there Saint Thomas of Aquine, Sainct Bonauenture, Saint Fran­cis, Sainct Dominicke, Sainct Charles Bo­romeus, Sainct Xauerius, and others whose sanctitie God by miraculous workes and signes hath diuulged. Among the auncient you haue the holie fathers and Martyres; it were longe to repeate their names here, You haue the martyrologe of Baronius, there are thousands of them, and the places where they liued; consult his notes thereunto, if you doubt of any. And now I argue thus. All true Christians in all ages euen from the Apo­stles tyme did euer rest in the iudgmēt of the Church as infallible: beleeuīg what was in the Church before them vniuersallie beleeued, ād [Page 236] condemning for Heretiques all those which before were vniuersallie condemned for such. And this commō principle descēded through all ages so, that whatsoeuer was vniuersallie taught by the pastors as matter of faith, was receaued vniuersallie by the people, and was approued by the generall iudgment of the Church of God and of her spiritte. This I would haue you to consider well; and marke againe that the communion of Gods elect was in this multitude: which is further mani­fest, first because this onelie is the true Church of God, and they were all of the true Church; Secondlie by those infinite miracles, whereby God hath as it were with a seale confirmed their course of life and blessed end; ād thirdlie because the communion of all holie fathers whose sanctitie you acknowledge, and of in­finite Martyrs putte to death for profession of Christianitie hath bene openlie with and in this Church.

16. I prooue the same assistance eightlie by the testimonie of Sainct Paul, Apostle and Master of the Gētiles. a rule you knowe must Arg. 8 be right; and a rule of faith, free from errour. This you are readie to admitte and to inter­prete of the Scripture▪ the word of God I graunt is right, but there are difficulties which it is, which is all, what is the sense of diuers [Page 237] places, as all knowe by the controuersies now adaies. Wee looke therfore for a liuing rule or iudge and certaine proponent of Gods word and meaning. Such a rule the Apostle di­recteth vs vnto: ā exteriour, visible, perpetuall rule to be followed by Christian people▪ and this if it be proposed by God to be followed, is infallible by his protection and assistance; will you heare the Apostles words. He, Christ, gaue some Apostles, and some Prophets, and other some Euangelists, and other some pastors, Ephes. 4.11 12.13.14. and Do­ctors to the consummation of the Saincts, to the worck of ministerie vnto the edifying of the body of Christ: vntill wee meete all into the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God into a perfect mā into the measure of the age of the fullnes of Christ: that now wee be not children wauering and caried aboute with euerie winde of doctrine in the wickednes of men to the circumuention of er­rour. Marke in this chapter of S. Paule how many things are defined against you and your fellowes. First the perpetuitie of the Church, in that he saith God gaue some pastors and Doctors vntill wee all meete in the vnitie of faith. Secondlie the perpetuall visibilitie of it, in that these pastors are building all the tyme, and that they are Apostles, Pastors, Doctors, whose office is visible and doth manifest their persōs to the flocke: thirdlie the infallibilitie of the [Page 240] Church is explicated by the end of the fore­said perpetuall ministerie which is that wee be not wauering. Among those the Apostle spe­akes of you I hope include the predestinate, who therfore you see depend, vppon exte­riour, certain, cōmon, ād in a word Catholique propositiō of the faith, a litle before you haue the vnitie of this bodie, and of the Spiritte of it, and after followes the varietie of functions in this one visible bodie of Iesus Christ, inclu­ding the elect as I haue noted before. The words are. Doing the truth in Charitie let vs in all things grow in him which is the head Christ, [...]. 15.16. of whome the whole bodie being compact and knit togeather by all iuncture of subministration accor­ding to the operation in the measure of euery mem­ber maketh the increase of the bodie vnto the edi­fying of it selfe in Charitie. Reflect or all this, and tell me whether in this Bodie be Gods elect or no? whether it be visible or inuisible? whether it be many bodies or one bodie, and whether this body be the true Church of Christ wherof he is the head.

17. But now let vs to our argument againe. Sainct Paule teacheth in this Chapter that God hath prouided continuall visible meanes to keepe men from errour; therfore these me­anes are by his prouidence kept free from er­rour. You would faine answeare that to the ēd [Page 241] the Church-propositiō doe settle Christiās in faith and infalliblie guide them, it neede not be kept infallible and free from errour. But how then, am I infalliblie right (as Christians doe beleeue they are) if the rule which I doe followe be not so? if I be allwaies as that, and that be some tymes wrong, how am I euer right? suppose that doe erre; and that I followe it (as Christians here by Saint Paule are war­ranted to foilowe the Church) doe not I runne into the same errour? if you insist in this errour, carpentars and masons will hisse at your doctrine.

18. This is yet further confirmed because as S. Paule here makes the Church to be the rule to direct our faith, so doth our Sauiour him­selfe in the Gospell warrant men to beleeue as the Church teacheth, saying to his Apostle and to their Successors the Pastors of the Church, he that heareth you heareth me, ād he that despiseth you dispiseth me: and againe;Luk 10. [...] Matth. 1 [...] 17. if he will not heare the Church, let him be to thee as the hea­then and the publican. How could this be true if a man might contemne all the Church as you doe, and if all the Church might erre? if to heare the Church be to heare Christ, sure Christ speaketh when the Church doth, the words be his words in her mouth: ād if they be his words, they are not lies, they be true.

[Page 242]19. Touching the place of Sainct Paule, bid your brother puritan obserue here with you, that (as you haue now learned if you be not incapable of learning) the Church whereof Saint Paule speakes, is visible, and that assistan­ce in teaching is giuen according to the diui­nitie of Sainct Paule to the visible Church of God. And the contrarie is a meere shift and contrarie to Scripture, to experience, and to the necessitie of Gods people. They haue not each one immediate reuelations, but are in­structed by visible men: such our Sauiour did send to teach Nations, and such will be to the worlds end to this purpose as the Apostle hath here tould vs. Such are those, whome the Holie Ghost endowes with his guiftes, to the edifying of the Saints, or holie ones, of which guiftes the Apostle speakes in an other place.Rom. 12. v. [...] 5.6.7.8. As in one bodie wee haue many members, but all the members haue not one action: so wee being many are one bodie in Christ, and each one anothers members. And hauing guiftes according to the grace that is giuen vs different, either pro­phecie according to the rule of faith, or ministerie in ministring, or he that teacheth in doctrine, he that exhorteth in exhorting &c. Here is the Spiritte of God in a visible bodie, a bodie I saie mani­festlie visible, in manifold operations and fun­ctions here described; In this bodie, this vi­sible [Page 243] bodie the Spiritte is, and in the same are Gods elect, it beīg the mysticall bodie of Iesus Christ, ād this mysticall body beīg one, [...]. 5▪ as you haue read in the Apostles words. The like dis­course he hath in his Epistle to the Corīthiās, where the vnitie of this bodie (wherī S. Paule allso and the rest of the Apostles were) and the visibilitie of the same one bodie containing in it the predestinate (vnles you will exclude Saint Paule and the Apostles from the nūber of them) are commended. there are diuisions of graces, but one Spiritte: 1. Corinth. 12. v. 4.5.6 c &. And there are diuisions of ministrations, but one lord: And there are diuisions of operations, but one God which worketh all in all. And the manifestation of the Spiritte is giuen vnto euerie one to profit. To one certes by the Spi­ritte is giuen the word of wisdome: and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spi­ritte: to another the working of miracles; to another prophecie: to another discerning of Spiritts: to ano­ther kinds of tongues: to another interpretation of languages. And all these things worketh one and the same Spiritte diuiding to euery one according as he will. (this is the bodie which hath the Spiritte, and these are the functions,v. 12.13.14 and these are visible to them which haue eies) for as the bodie is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the bodie wheras they be many yet are one bodie, so allso Christ. For in one Spiritte were [Page 244] wee all baptized into one, whether Iewes or Gen­tiles, [...] v. 20.or bondmen or free, and in one Spiritte wee were all made to drinke. for the bodie allso is not one member, but many &c. now there are many mem­bers indeed but one Bodie. Thus farre Sainct Paule, wherin he hath confuted the Puritans errour of two Churches, and accuratelie de­clared the visibilitie of Gods Church, and assi­stance of Gods Spirit. And I would haue you marke particularlie how S. Paul, and conse­quentlie the rest of the predestinate are bapti­zed into the same one visible Bodie, and are partes of it, which the Greeke text doth yet expresse more distinctlie.

20. A ninth waie the diuine assistance is prooued out of the Epistles of the same gre­ate diuine ād Apostle vnto Timothie, and thus you may conceaue it. The Church or congre­gation Arg. 9 of Christian men cannot be the pillar and ground of truth, without diuine assistāce for men left to themselues may be mistaken in diuine matters: but the Church is the pillar and ground of truth therfore it hath diuine assistance. The proposition is cleere and con­fessed. [...]. Tim. 3. v. 14.15. The assumption I finde in Sainct Paul. These things I write vnto thee, Timothie, hoping that I shall come to thee quicklie. But if I tary lōge, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to con­uerse in the house of God, which is the Church of [Page 233] the liuing God, the pillar and ground of truth.

21. You trie many wayes to answeare this argument, but none will serue, the first is, that the Church cannot erre in teaching as long as it followeth the word of God, ād teacheth accordīg to it. This is a peece of deepe diuini­tie. Cā an heretique, cā a Turke. cā an Athiest, cā a diuell erre as lōg as he followes the word of God, and teacheth according to it? are these pillars of truth? The secōd is that those words are meant of the Church of Ephesus. take your spectacles and reade againe. The Church of the liuing God, what Church is that, but the Catholique, wherin Timothie, and all good Christians are? This Church is the ground of truth. The third is, that it is meant of the inui­sible Church. This is likewise agaīst the text, for the Apostle in all that Chapter doth dis­course of conuersation of Christian people verie visible, ād tells Timothie, that the things which he saies there are directions for him to knowe how he is to carie himselfe in the Church of God. reade the text for it is cleere.

22. The last argument I make out of the Arg. 1 words of our Sauiour Iesus Christ, who pro­mised faithfullie to send the holy spiritte vnto the Church to assist it,Ioh. 14. v. 15.16. 16. Ch. v 13 I will aske my father ād he will giue you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you foreuer, the Spiritte of truth he shall [Page 234] teach you all truth. Here the spiritte is promised to the Church foreuer to assist her to all truth; what could be said plainer? The like God be­fore promised vnto the Church and called it his couenant,Isa. 59.21. to wit, that the words which he putte into her mouth should neuer out of it. And herevppon the Apostles beleeued that they had diuine assistance: and affirmed their act and decree,Acts 15.28 to be the act and decree of the holie Ghost, as you reade in the Actes of the Apostles. Stay here and consider well what you will do in this case; if you deny the assi­stance you deny the word of God: if you graunt it the cause is ours.

23. That you may seeme to answeare you will say euer something, and the more intri­cate it be the better it serues your turne. For­sooth you graunt Assistance of the Spirit least you be seene directlie to contradict Scripture; but you denie that the Church hath it. The Church you saie may mistake the sense of Scripture and was mistaken many hundred yeeres together, but the spirit directs you to to it; your Apostle Luther and you haue hit it now at last. Sillie men, what are you? what ground haue you for diuine assistance? by what letters Patents from Gods priuate Coū ­cell can you make this good? Our Sauiour Ie­sus Christ hath promised the assistance of the [Page 235] Spiritte vnto the Church, and this promise is recorded in the Scripture: This holdes not (you saie) he hath bethought himselfe better and recalled it, and made a later and an irreuo­cable firme promise vnto you. If you be not impostors, let vs see it: if you showe it not, as you cannot, for God is God and it not chāged, you knowe what men are to thinke in such a case.

24. But whie would you rob the Church of God of her legacie? she doth inherite law­fullie this assistance, it was bequeathed her by Iesus Christ; she hath vndeniable wri­tings to shewe for it: she hath had possessiō of it longe agoe. Sixteene hundred yeares she hath enioyed it. It is to late for you now to commence your sute. Goe first, and prooue that you are the Catholique Church; that the communion of Nations, and of the auncient Fathers; ād of the Martyrs; and Saints of God, haue bene with you. Produce your Succes­sion of Pastors continued euer from S. Peter, bringe to light your Generall Councells, which yet neuer sawe the light, name the Nations you haue conuerted vnto the faith: let vs heare of your miracles, let vs see how the ould Pro­phecies all doe meete, and are verified in your Church? When these things are done; and so well done, that the world sees cleerlie your [Page 236] Church and not ours to be the Catholique Church, then begin your sute, and not now, for your beggarie, and want of title, and im­posture is yet beleeued, or rather seene and felt of all the Christian world.

25. If wee cōsider only those whō your selues do confesse to haue beene Heretickes here­tofore; you must confesse likewise that they were not Heires vnto the promises Iesus Christ made vnto his Church among which promises one was of perpetuall assistance. For this promise or legacie was made and beque­athed by our Sauiour vnto his Church: and confessed Heretiques were not the Church and flocke of Christ. It rests therfore that you graunt that Church to inherite this legacie, which is the true Church and not confessedly hereticall and false, whether this Church be yours, or ours. This is euident. Now further it is euident by the former bookes that the true Church, is not yours, but ours; therfore the diuine assistance is in ours, not in yours And this I would haue you to marke dili­gentlie,turne downe the l [...]f [...]. to the end I neede repeate it no more That is; whensoeuer the question is about the Spiritte, looke that you doe not challenge it vntill you haue prooued that yours is the Church; for there is in holie Scripture no pro­mise made of the Spiritte, but vnto the Church. And the like I doe saie to your fellowes, either [Page 337] a parte or all together, either moderne, or more auncient; if they will haue me be­leeue that they haue the Spiritte of Iesus Christ, let them prooue that they are the Church. Neither doe I care whether the controuersie they pretend to determine by the spiritte be fundamentall or not funda­mentall, for I harken to no spiritte but to that in the Church, therfore I say againe if they will haue me beleeue them, let them prooue that they are the Church, and bring such euidence as I haue demaunded hereto­fore; which will neuer be as longe as the Scri­ptures and Histories are extant.

THE SECOND CHAPTER. Wherin the last of the precedent arguments is vnfolded more at large.

26. IT greeues you much that in the former Chapter I saie the diuine assistance was bequeathed vnto the Church, and much you frette against me for it, but cannot mend your selfe. For that which I said is there prooued many waies. It is a tedious thing to preach to those who shutte their eares when the word of God is deliuered, who haue eies but will not see. I must speake lowder yet, and repeate the same ouer againe and againe, that this sa­cred and transcendent truth of diuine assistāce may by the operation of Gods grace enter [Page 238] into your sowle which errour possessing hath made deafe and dull to Gods word. To runne ouer all againe would take more tyme then I can spare, I will therfore inculcate the last ar­gument onelie, wherein are three texts of Scripture for assistance, combined and conne­cted all in one; which I will here propose, distinctlie. In the first the diuine assistance is promised by God the father, and I will pro­duce the couenant: In the second our Sauiour Iesus Christ doth bequeath it vnto the Church, and I will bringe the words of his will registred by an Apostle. In the third the confessed Church of Christ doth acknow­ledge the receipt of this assistance which is to be for euer hers. To beginne with the first, I argue thus.

27. If the words of God (which no doubt are the sacred truth, for God speakes no lies) be allwaies in the mouthes of the Pastors of Gods Church by vertue of Gods promise and prouidence, this Church hath in this, diuine Assistance: But the words of God are all­wayes in the mouthes of the pastors of Gods Church by vertue of Gods prouidence and promise, therfore the Church hath in this, di­uine Assistance. The proposition is cleere and includes proofe sufficient within it selfe, be­cause if Gods couenant and prouidence effect [Page 239] this thing wee speake of, God effects it, and is the cause of it. The Assumptiō, the prophet Esay, one of Gods Secretaries, a man beyond all exception, declares in these words,Isa. 59.21. My spi­ritte that is in thee, and my words that I haue put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, ād out of the mouth of thy seede &c. saith our Lord from this present and for euer. Thus he. And the title of it is, This is my couenant with them, He doth not say, my precept. the Church of the Redeemer, saith our Lord.

28. The first answeare is that the place con­cernes not the Church of Christ, but onelie the Prophets of the Iewish Church. But this is against the text it self, which doth speake very manifestly of the Church of the Messias, as you may see by the words that immediate­lie goe before. They of the West shall feare the name of our Lord, v. 19.20. and they of the Rising of the Sunne his glorie, when he shall come as a violent streame which the Spirit of our Lord driueth, and the Redeemer shall come to Sion and to them that returne from iniquitie in Iacob saith our Lord. As if he had said; when the Messias come into the world, a Redeemer to Sion, and to those that returne from iniquitie an Israel (for when all Nations haue entered into the Church, the Iewes will acknowledge our Sauiour too, as I haue declared in the former booke,Rom. 11. [...] and the Apostle doth also confirme out of this place) [Page 240] both East and west, that is, the world, will be­leeue: And this is my couenant with them, the Beleeuers, the Church, My Spirit that is thee, and my words &c. The text aboue cited is by S. Ierome translated out of the Hebrew, which in his time had noe points, into latine thus, Time bunt qui ab occidente nomen Domini, & qui ab Ortu solis gloriam eius, quum venerit quasi flu­uius violentus quem Spiritus Domini cogit, & VENERIT Sion Redemptor, & eis qui re­deunt ab iniquitate in Iacob, dicit Dominus. Hoc foedus meum cum eis, dicit Dominus, Spiritus meus qui est in te, & verba mea quae posui in ore tuo non recedent de ore &c.

29. The second answeare is, that the pro­mise is conditionall, and the sense this, that God will keepe the true doctrine of Saluatiō in their mouthes if they followe the Scriptu­re, and forsake not the truth in their hartes. This answeare doth change the sense of all­mightie God, for it addeth the condition of following the Scripture, wheras the promi­se and couenant of allmightie God is absolute and without condition as were the rest of the promises of sending a Messias, and calling the Gentiles, and the promise our Sauiour made of sending the holie Ghost after his as­cension. It taketh also the true sense awaie, for the couenant is of effecting the Churches [Page 241] perseuerance, in teaching and professing the sacred truth, and adhering to his word, and this you take awaie. And the rest which you leaue is not the sense of God, nor of the words as they are in the bible, nor any priuiledge at all but a thinge which to Athiests and diuells you doe graunt, for you confesse they doe teach true as longe as they teach the word of God.

30. I demaund of you here whether you thinke in your conscience that God can conti­nue the visible profession of the faith or no? You cannot denie that he can doe it if he will, for his wisdome and power are infinite, and nothing can be but so as he pleaseth to effect or to permitte, and if you denie this, you de­nie that which in your Creede you doe pro­fesse. Now graunting that he can doe it, why doe not you beleeue that he will and doth, seeing that he hath obliged himselfe therevn­to by promise and couenant, as the Scripture doth testifie. It is a verie hard case when a mā dares not stand to the plaine words of Scrip­ture, and to their immediate sense which they doe offer, especiallie a sense which is honou­rable to God, and beneficiall to the Church: but will add conditions of his owne, as if God could make no couenant, vnles he were his lawier to giue him counsell. But omitting [Page 242] your trickes as foolish, and vngrounded, and contrarie to Gods honour, and veracitie, and wisdome, I will putte you in mind of one thing which our Sauiour said touching the prophecies of himselfe, and his mysticall bo­die the Church.Luke 24. v 44.45.46.47. All things (saith he) must needs be fulfilled which are written in the lawe of Moyses and the prophets and psalmes of me. Thē he opened their vnderstanding that they might vnderstand the Scriptures, and he said to them. That so it is written, and so it behoued Christ to suffer and to rise againe from the deade the third day and pe­nance to be preached and remission of sinnes vnto all natiōs begining from Hierusalem. Heare you haue heard this preaching of the Gospell to all Nations particularlie by Christ inserted a­mong those things, which he said must needs be fulfilled, [...]. And the couenant which I haue cited is in the prophet, and toucheth this pre­aching particularlie, whie doe you then oppose your selfe to Iesus Christ, and saie it neede not be fulfilled, it must not needs be?

31. The third answeare is that God accor­ding to the couenāt doth keepe the true do­ctrine, and sauing faith in the harts of the pre­destinate, though they doe not alwaies pro­fesse it. This will not serue your turne; wee speake of profession, of preaching the word of [Page 243] God: of professing the true faith; this God hath promised to continue, and this makes men seene and heard of others, this makes a noise in the world that all Natiōs may heare, and come vnto the Church, where conti­nuallie one generation followes an other with the Gospell, the doctrine of Iesus Christ, the words of God in their mouth.Isay. 59.21. Harke Pu­ritan the Scripture thunders, this in my coue­nant with them saith our Lord; my Spiritte that is in thee, ād my VVORDS that I haue putte in thy MOVTH shall not depart out of thy MOVTH, and out of the MOVTH of thy seede, ād out of the MOVTH of the seede, of thy seede, saith our Lord, from this present and FOREVER. Reflect vpō these words. This is my couenant: with them, the Christian Church; saith our Lord; My Spi­ritte which is in thee, in thy hart, and my words; he saith not this or that poīt, but generallie my words, which I, God, haue put into thy mouth, shall not out; whēce? of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seede &c. till when? For euer. I was about to make an end heere of this part, but I cānot for beare adding one sentēce more out of the same prophet in an other Chapter next but one, where he declares the perpetuall vi­sibilitie of the Church by reason of the conti­nuall noise which her Pastors make, and shewes in part the vse of the foresaid assistāce. [Page 244] Vppon thie walles Hierusalem I haue appoin­ted watchmen, Isay 62.6. all the daie and all the night fore­uer they shall not hould their peace. It is not said they shall not hould their peace if they doe not sleepe, according to your drowsie glosse: or if they will not speake the word of God; but absolutelie it is said, they shall not hould their peace. And thus much of the first.

Iohn 14. v. 16.17.32. The second place doth containe our Sauiours will, as I said: the words are these. I will aske the Father and he will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for euer the Spirit of truth whome the world cannot receaue, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him, but you knowe him because he shall abide with you, and shall be in you. v. 26. The Paraclete the holie Ghost whom the father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, ād suggest vnto you all things, whatsoeuer I shall saie vnto you. [...]6. chap. v. 12.13. Yet many things I haue to saie vnto you, but you cannot beare them now: but when he, the Spiritt of truth, commeth, he shall teach you all truth. For he shall not speake of himselfe, [...] but what things soeuer he shall heare he shall speake. In these words obserue with me seauē things, the first is who sēdeth, Iesus Christ the sōne of God: secondlie, whom he sendeth, another comforter the holie Ghost the Spiritte of truth: thirdlie, to whome he sends this [Page 245] comforter and Spirit: to the Church he was to leaue behinde him here one earth, consi­sting of Apostles, ād Pastors, persons visible by their function and office. Fourthlie, how this Spirit is to be with them, to abide in this Church, and to remanie with it. Fiftlie, to what end all this; to teach them the truth. Sixtlie,Some pro: are so Wise as to ex­clude tea­ching, and say the spirit was left only to cōfort not to teach. what truth and how much; whatsoeuer I shall saie to you, what things soeuer he shall heare, All truth. Seauenthlie, for how long, For euer. All this is in the text; and therfore our posi­tion is most true that the Church hath diuine assistance in the proposition of the faith.

33 I must tell you moreouer, first that God with a fewe words can signifie many things, his comprehension being infinite and he knowing all the significations and vses of all words. And next, that I take these words of Iesus Christ in the whole fullnes of their sense and meaning, though some Interpreters haue contented themselues to put a part of it onelie downe, hauing not then occasion as wee haue now to searth further. In the Church are people and Pastors, the Spiritte assists all, some to teach ād to gouerne, others to obaie and to be directed. Some are prede­stinate, ād with these the spiritte continues to perseuerance, some are not but for a tyme be­leeue, and this by the assistance of the spiritte [Page 246] And some of them are teachers allso and go­uernours, ād in this kinde do participate allso the assistance of Gods Spirit, who disposeth all as he pleaseth, diuiding his guifts ād graces among men, to his glorie and the good of the predestinate. In fine all those whose names are written in the booke of life perseuere finallie. So that the Spirit leades them further to the state of glorie, and there shewes them all truth in it selfe, abiding so with them for all eternitie.

34. But now let vs heare what you saie to this place. First you saie it is promised to the Apostles, in their owne persons onelie. This is false, first because it is promised to remaine with them for euer, whereas the Apostles in their owne persons were not to liue euer heere: and perpetuall coexistence of two ex­treames includes a perpetuall existēce of each of them as I noted before vpon the like occa­sion; it is to them therfore and to their suc­cessors after them without ending at any tyme and so foreuer. Secondlie by the end of the graunt the same is euident: for the Church now a daies stands in neede of this Assistance as well as it did then and in some respects more; because it is greater: and the like it is of other ages, and will be still to the worlds end: since therefore the prouidence of our Sa­uiour [Page 247] for the establishment of his Church and saluation of his elect is perfect, the graunt holds according to the letter, and is so to be vnderstood as the word stands, foreuer.

35. Next you saye the sence is, the Spiritte teacheth the Church all the truth that is taught her. If I should tell you that my ma­ster in England did teach me all languages, ād cōfesse afterwards they were but two that he taught me, you would thinke sure that I did lie, for two be not all. Yet would you haue the Scripture to speake in this manner. But I answeare that the words of Scripture are plaine, he shall teach all whatsoeuer I shall say to you: whatsoeuer he shall heare: all truth. ch. 14. v. 26 Ch. 16. v. 13 And I thinke if I should giue you all my bookes, you would not be contented if my executors should giue you the tenth part, with this in­terpretation of the will, I giue you all, that is, all which are giuen you: and then define what that is, among themselues, as you doe in the matter of fundamentall points; but of this hereafter.

36. The third waie of eluding the place is to saie that in heauen the Spirit teacheth all truth but not here. That in heauē he teacheth all I knowe well; but you erre against the scri­pture in denying that he teacheth all truth heere. Reade the text and you shall see that [Page 248] our Sauiour sendeth the Spirit vnto the mili­tant Church from which he meant to with­drawe his visible presence: to the Apostles left in the world: and to their Successors, to com­fort them in his absence; to reduce vnto their minde what he had said, and to assist and teach them all truth. The Spiritte of truth (saith excellentlie S. Cyrill) will lead vnto all truth, Cyrill. A­lex. li. 10. in Ioan. cap. 41. for he knoweth exactlie the truth whose spirit he is, and hath reuealed it vnto vs, not in part onelie, but entirely, for though in this life wee know in part onelie as S. Paul saith, 1. Cor. 13. not an imperfect but the en­tire truth hath shined vnto vs in this litle know­ledge. ^*

37. The fourth waie is to saie that the place is to be limited to those truthes which are ne­cessarie for the commō people. But this holds not, for what shall become of the learned? who shall compound differences in religion? con­demne Heresies: and repaire the faults of Schisme, which teare the Church in peeces? if the Spirits assistance doth it not. In vaine doe you limit the words of God, you are a man, you are not God, you cannot rule him, ād pare of what you please from his promise: his words import all, not onelie whatsoeuer; is necessarie for common people, but all what­soeuer he hath reuealed: they are extended as farre as the necessities of the Church do re­quire. [Page 249] Againe it is one thing to determine how far this assistance is affoorded to this, or that Christian in particular which liues in a Catholique countrie and in peace, another thing it is to define how farre it is affoorded vnto the whole bodie of the Church.

38. The last waie is to saie that this promise was to be performed onelie in the inuisible Church, by teaching them priuatelie. This is false. For the Church whereūto this promise [Page 250] was made, was the visible Church, and God made it to no other. The Apostles were visi­ble; And how could it be otherwise whē their noise went ouer all the world? The compa­nie of Christians in communion with them were visible. Their Successors, the Pastors of the Church, were visible. Their office of prea­ching, of ministring the Sacramentes, and gouerning Gods people, did manifest their persons to the flocke. The guifte of tongues, of interpretation, of working miracles and the like, made the men, and so the Church, visible. The predestinate needed visible in­struction,Rom. 10.14. for how should they beleeue vnles they heare (saith the Apostle in this case) and how should they heare without a preacher? and a pre­acher you knowe is visible, you see him, you heare him, you can point at him. Now prea­chers deliuer not infalliblie such doctrine as the predestinate are to beleeue, without assi­stance, and therefore for the predestinate peoples sake it was all together necessarie to assist the Church in visible actes, in preaching, in deliuering true doctrine, which is to assist the visible Church. In fine the office of the Apostles and Pastors, whose actes are in tea­ching and directing others, and consequentlie visible actes, could not be rightlie performed without Assistance, which you confesse, and [Page 251] our Sauiour intending the perfomance of those actes (that so his Church, beīg called by his word, deliuered with the mouthes of mē, might be gathered out of all Nations) did leaue them, that is the Apostles and their Successors to this end, diuine Assistance: and said the Paraclete whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, Iohn 14. v [...] 16 [...] 13. and suggest vnto you all he shall teach you all truth.

39. The third place I am to inculcate for this Assistance containes the Testimonie of the vndeniable Christian Church acknow­ledging the receipt of it. For, if wee produce euidēce for the promise, and this by couenāt; and for the actuall sending: and finallie for the receipt of this Assistance by such as confes­sedlie might doe it in the name of the whole Church: the cause is wonne. To proceed ther­fore to this part, you will confesse that the Apostles were the true Church: and that, if they receaued this Assistance, the Church re­ceaued it: and, as they vnderstood the pro­mise, and beleeued it, so wee are to vnderstād and to beleeue it. Now it is most certaine that they receaued this Assistance, and did not onelie beleeue, that according to the promise of our Sauiour, they had it infalliblie when they were to determine matters of Religion, but they did further declare vnto Christians [Page 252] this Assistance, and direction which they had ēioyed, and did puhlishe it to be beleeued by the Church. For, the decree which after much dispute and inquisition they made in their ge­nerall meeting at Ierusalem, they begin thus: It hath seemed good to the holie Ghost and to vs. Acts 15. v. [...]. affirming by these words plainlie and propo­sing allso to Christians to beleeue, their pu­blique act and decree to be the act and decree of the holie Ghost. And if it were his allso, then he with them made it, assisting and di­recting them in the doing as our Sauiour had promised he should doe. And herein the A­postles gaue example to their Successors to vnderstand our Sauiours promise so, and to beleeue and doe so, as they haue vnderstood it, and beleeued, and done. The place is cleere The thing is vndeniable.

40. As these Masters of Christianitie had vnderstood, beleeued, done: assuring them­selues and others of diuine assistance in their common definition and decree by reason of our Sauiours promise, without any more adoe, he being God, and therfore meaning as he said, and as good as his promise: so did their successors vnderstand, beleeue and doe: in regard the promise was made foreuer. And therfore they allso beleeued, and assured o­thers of diuine assistance in their common [Page 253] definition and decree, by reason of the same promise. This the pastors assembled in gene­rall Councells haue done euer since, and the Christian people in communion with these Councells haue beleeued it. Those Christians which liued in the first age did beleeue that the Apostles had by vertue of our Sauiours promise diuine assistāce to propose and spred the Gospell, and to teach rightlie the word of God, and that they were therfore to be be­leeued in all which by generall consent they did propose; or wherein they did all agree: so that the Predestinate ād all others, might se­curelie beleeue as they taught, and goe on towards heauen that way, which they poin­ted out: The Church in the second age did be­leeue, that the Church in the first age had the Assistance of the diuine spirit by vertue of the promise of Iesus Christ and therevppon be­leeued allso that they might securelie be­leeue, what the first age by generall consent had taught. The Church in the third age did beleeue the same of the Church in the first and second ages; and thus euer, succeeding worlds of people did beleeue of the Church in all ages before their tyme. Thus it hath bene beleeued. Thus hath the possession of the diuine legacie (receaued at first by vnde­niable heires, the Apostles) bene kept by the [Page 254] Church these sixteene hundred yeares.

46. In this Church haue beene infinite peo­ple, pastors innumerable, great deuines, graue Fathers, the Reuerēce of Antiquitie, ād Flower of learning. In it haue bene all the true Mar­tyrs that euer suffered for Iesus Christ, all the contemplatiues, all the Saincts, and predesti­nate, all the Apostles, all holie people that haue bene since the sōne of God came downe into the world to redeeme and instruct man. And the spirit of all these condemnes you ād your Spirit, as being opposite to the Spirit of the pastors of Gods Church, to the Spirit of auncient fathers, to the Spirit of Gods elect, to the Spirit of Apostles and Euangelists; who beleeued all, that the Church whereof they were, had the Assistance of Gods holie Spirit.

42. Will you see your aduersaries all at once? men staie not longe in this world, some die, more are borne; so that mankind like a flood runnes on and euerie one is a part, a drop in this flood; The vnderstanding onelie can staie in it selfe, and make all at once stand before it. Assemble therfore in your vnderstanding the Catholique Church of all former ages, and looke then on the companie, and see them all against your selfe. Behold a Councell, for wee haue abstracted these men, the Church [Page 255] I meane from tyme and place diffusing it; in which consideration the vnion of the parts in beleefe and their communion doth re­maine: therefore I saie againe, behold a Coū ­cell Oecumenicall, the most ample, the most learned, the most reuerend that euer was. Wherein are, all the Bisshops of Asia, A­fricke, and Europe before Luther, I except only confessed Heretiques; All the auncient Fathers, all the great Deuines; all the Pa­stors that haue bene in the space of fifteene hundred yeares, confessed Heretiques exce­pted all the Martyrs of Iesus Christ, all the Saincts, and Predestinate: all the Apostles, all the Euangelists, and people infinite. In the middest of this great Councell is the holie Ghost, the Spirit of Truth, mouing all as he pleaseth, and by his operations keeping the truth manifest. And the Pre­sident of it is Iesus Christ, the naturall Sonne of God, God and man. All these con­demne your doctrine, your Spirit is a­gainst the Spirit of all these, and there­fore by Christian people to be condemned and abhorred.

43. I am no Rhetoritian, I doe not amplifie; I haue prooued all that I doe saie. And here end this Chapter, wishing [Page 256] you to consider well what I haue said he­therto, for diuine assistance. And if you vn­derstand it well (as God graunt you may) you will see that it cannot be denied with­out contempt of all the Christian world; without contradicting the Spirit of the predestinate; without opposition to knowne Saincts in the matter of diuine religion; without giuing the lie to the Apostles, Euangelists, and prophets; and finallie without open iniurie to the Father the Sonne and the holie Ghost, who haue each their peculiar interest in the matter: the Sōne in intreating: the Father in sending: and the holie Ghost in comming. Wherby this transcendent Principle of diuine assistāce doth relie peculiarlie vppon the whole Trinitie, which is the prime Veritie and origen of crea­ted vnderstanding.

THE THIRD CHAPTER. That the Argument is not answeared by the di­stinction of fundamentall and not fundamentall.

44. THat you may haue some thing to say and conceale your vnsufficiēcie from such as are not Schollers you put in here a di­stinction of fundamentall and not fundamē ­tall points, and thinke to stoppe our mouthes with one peece of the distinction. Some of your fellowes expresse themselues in other termes, but in sense you meete. Your answe­are is that the Church hath infallible assistāce to fundamentall points, not to others. Con­cerning the fundamentall points you are not yet agreed, most commonly you thinke that they are the chiefe poīts in the three Creeds, And agree all that they are very fewe. Some will haue fower, others six, others eight: sup­pose with the most that they be twelue. Ac­cording to your distinction the Spirit doth assist the Church infalliblie to these points and hath done so euer, It remaines now that I adde a word or two touching the rest.

45. I am therefore to proue a further assi­stance [Page 258] of the Spiritte then to sixe or twelue pointes which you call fundamentall; and first my Argumentes which I made in the former Chapters are not answeared by your distin­ction, but proue stronglie that Gods assistance is to all; and your answeare which makes a wide exception, whereas the Scripture hath none at all, is first without groūd in the Scri­pture: You should haue showne your distin­ction there if you had expected beleefe, for men may not presume to make exceptions at their pleasure in the generall rule of God. Secondlie it leaues the world without satisfa­ction in the matter of controuersies: for you leaue noe meanes at all to make an end of the For example; to end the controuersies betwixt vs and you, you leaue noe meanes at all. Not the assistance of Gods Spiritte, for you saie they are in matters not fundamentall; and that our Church in fundamentalls neuer erred. Nor the witte of man, for all men if not assisted, may erre in diuine matters. Nor the testimonie and iudgment of Antiquitie, for if they were cer­taine of these matters it was either by their owne Wittes, and these without Gods assi­stance might erre: or it was by the assistance of the Spiritte to these pointes; which is agaīst the doctrine of your distinction. Nor is there any other, way found either in the dispositiō [Page 259] of Gods Prouidence, (for this is the thing would ouerthrowe your distinction) or in the witte of man.

46. Thirdlie this doctrine of yours is a­gainst the perfection of our Sauiours proui­dence; for all powerfull and wise persons es­tablishing a perpetuall common wealth, take order for the peace and vnitie of it, since diui­sion is the ruine of the publique weale: And our Sauiour as you haue heard before, hath instituted a spirituall common wealth to last foreuer, wherefore if he hath not ordained meanes for the peace and vnitie of it his pro­uidence hath ben deficient, and this commō wealth of his with infinite diuisions arising about the most obscure rule or lawe which he hath left will be torne into peeces and so perish, and not be perpetuall as he intended it should be. Againe, diuisions and Schismes are not onelie in points, by you esteemed funda­mētall, as appeareth cleerelie by your schisme, And, Gods rule or written word containes not only things fundamentall in that sense; as you may see in the Scripture wherein are o­ther points of doctrine and manners all most infinite. And further yet; there is and hath ben controuersie about the rule it self; as which it is, how much is Scripture; which booke, which chapter, which verse is or is not holy Scripture; [Page 260] what is the meaning of this or that verse which controuersies must be decided, other­wise there will neuer be vnitie and consent about the diuine Word, rule and lawe. Now these things cannot be determined without Diuine Assistance as I argued before; and, for the Vnitie in Religion, and the Communiō and Perpetuitie, power to determine them is necessarie, wherefore, since our Sauiours Pro­uidence was not deficient, it followes that there is, and in the Church, such power and Assistance.

47. Fourthlie if the holie ministerie in the Church of God be established as a rule of mens faith to the end they be not in their faith wauering and borne about with euery winde of newe doctrine to the circumuention of errour, then is it by Gods assistance and perpetuall watch and direction infallible; but the sacred ministerie of the Church of God is thus esta­blished by Iesus Christ, which I proue by the testimonie of S. Paule before alleadged: he Christ,Ephes. 4. v. 11. &c. gaue some Apostles, ād other some Pastors, and Doctors, to the consummation of the Saints, vnto the worke of the ministerie, vnto the edifying of the bodie of Christ: vntill wee meete all into the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the sonne of God, into the measure of the age of the fullnes of Christ: that now wee be not children wauering and caried [Page 261] about with euerie wind of doctrine in the wicked­nes of men in craftines, to the circumuention of errour.

47. Fiftly, since you distinguish the do­ctrine of faith into fundamentall and not fun­damentall, it followes that the Apostles had put into their mouthes for instruction of Gods people, doctrine allso not fundamētall,Iohn. 15. v. 15. all thinges whatsoeuer I hard of my father I haue notified vnto you, said our Sauiour to the Apo­stles. Whence I inferre also that, that doctrine shall neuer out of their mouthes or the mou­thes of their successors while the world en­dures: and proue it by Gods couenant of assi­stance,Isay. 5 [...]. my spiritte that is in thee and my wordes that I haue put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, ād out of the mouth of thy seede, ād out of the mouth of the seede of thy seede saith our lord from this present and for euer. And by the pro­mise of our blessed Sauiour,Isay. 14. v. 26. [...]. the Paraclete the holy Ghost whome the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all thinges, and suggest vnto you all thinges whatsoeuer I shall say to you,

49. That you may the better vnderstand this peece of diuinitie which doth oft occurre, I will spend a litle more tyme in it to let you know: first that you and the rest of your fel­lowes in this matter doe crosse and contradict your owne selues. For touching other pointes [Page 262] pointes of religiō and gods word, which you saie are not fundamentall:Further Confir­mation of the former arguments either there is cer­taine knowledge to be had of them: or there is not: make choise of which you please. If you be not certaine, you must confesse you doubt of the truth of such pointes, and of the meaning of Gods word in all places by vs alleadged which are not fundamentall, and that you confidentlie auouch in the pul­pitte, and maintaine against vs in the matters of reall presence, iustificatiō, merit, workes of Supererogation, sacrifice, inuocation of Sainctes &c. that which you doubt whether it be as you saie or noe. If you be certaine: ei­ther you meane that the Spiritte doth assist and assure you in more then fundamen­talles, which indeed is your ordinarie pul­pite bragge where none dispute with you; and consequentlie you must graunt against your distinction that the assistance of the Spiritte is extended further then to your pretended fundamentalles: or you meane that you are not assured by the Spiritte but onelie by your witte which witt you oppose to the witte and iudgment of all the Church in diuine matters. And if it be thus, you con­tradict you selues because at home you say you resolue it not into your owne witte but into the Spirit.

[Page 263]50. You answeare that by illation you conclude against vs; but who knowes not that the difficultie is about the sense of the place from whence you offer to conclude against vs: and that first you must be certaine of this sense before you can ex­tract any thing out of it by good consequēce. I demaund therfore whether you be cer­taine of the sense or noe? if you be not, you are not certaine of the conclusion which you draw there hence as euery logitian can tell: if you be, then I demaund how? since mans witte in diuine matters may mistake, and this you confesse: assistance of the Spi­ritte you haue not, or if you pretend to haue it, then confesse that in your owne iudgment it is extended in Gods promise to more then fundamentalles.

51. Secondlie you contradict the whole Church ād her spiritte in this foolish affirma­tiō of the Churches errour in pointes not fū ­damentall as you call them.A second Confir­mation. And this I proue because all Christiās that euer were in the cō ­munion of the Church hetherto did submitte their iudgmēt to the generall iudgmēt of the Church in the age before them, beleeuing all whatsoeuer was thē generallie ād without ex­ception beleeued, whether the point were one of those which you call fundamen­tall, [Page 264] or were not one of them: in so­much that you are not able to name any one point held generallie without exception in any former age to be matter of faith, though it were not one of your fundamentalles, which point was reiected by the Church generallie in any ensuing age. And, to giue all the scope in this you can desire, take all the tyme from the comming of the assisting Spi­ritt, which was the whitsontide next after our Sauiours ascension, to this present yeare. But be sure you obserue diligentlie what I haue said in this argument; and doe not speake of thinges which are not to this purpose: either because they were not generallie and with­out exception esteemed matters of faith by the Church Catholique; or because the con­tradiction tradition was not the act of the Church but of some priuate man, either mistakē by ignorāce, the Church not approuing his assertion: or pertinaciously a uouching it, [...]n Hereti­cke. and so without, and none of vs.

3. Confir­mation.52. The truth of that which I haue said is further yet manifest in this, that all, whosoe­uer were generallie condemned for Hereti­ques in any former age by the Church, were esteemed so by the Church in following tymes, whether their Heresies were in mat­ters you call fundamentall or not: as he may [Page 265] see who will runne ouer the Heresies of for­mer tymes: whence it followes elderlie that the Church in later tymes did conforme her iudgment to the iudgment of the church in former tymes, and esteeme it infalliblie. This is true at all tymes; from the Apostles to this daie, therfore all the Church of all this tyme is against your affirmation: and your affirma­tion against the Spirit of all this Church, pa­stors and people, [...] and learned, auncient and moderne.

53. Fourthlie,4. Confir. If all Christians be warranted by Iesus Christ the Sonne of God and true God, to hea [...]e the Church and to [...] iudgment, then is it vnpossible that the gene­rall resolution of the Church in matter of faith though not fundamentall in your sense, be false, and cōtradict the eternall truth: because God being truth and goodnes, obligeth not men to erre, and to contradiction. But all Christians are so warranted.Luk. 10. v. 16. He which heareth you heareth me, he which contemneth you contem­neth me. It is therfore vnpossible that the ge­nerall resolution of the Church in matter of faith, though such as you call not fundamen­tall, be false: therfore it hath by Gods proui­dence the assistance of the Spiritt of truth in euerie such generall resolution.

54. Fiftlie, If the whole Church, thē all Bis­shopes, [Page 266] all Fathers though consenting all to­gether ād teaching vniformely, may haue er­red in matters of faith, which are not of your fundamentalles.5. Confir. Whence it followes, that whatsoeuer they haue said, or beleeued, or re­ceaued aboue those fewe fundamētalles, may be false; ād consequentlie nothing, nothing at all in matter of faith is certaine, but onelie those fewe fundamentalles. Why then may not the rest of deuinitie, yea all the rest of the scripture be false? and why may not old dam­ned heresies howsoeuer in the primitiue; tyme abhorred, be true? If you offer to answere that you [...]owe certainlie those things to be false and the rest of the scripture to be true; I replie that you doe either pretend to know this by the spiritte; and therby you admitte what be­fore in your distinctiō you denied: or you pre­tend to know it by your witte, and then you entangle your selfe more in in the bryers, for, how will you make it euident that your witte cannot erre in these matters, if all other wit­tes might haue erred?

55. Hauing lighted here on the considera­tion of the fonde esteeme you haue of your owne witte aboue the world, I begin to see that you affect a place farre aboue the qualitie of your person, though this disorder in affe­ction be in a manner secrette from your selfe. [Page 267] You iudge and determine controuersies in matters not fundamentall, as you speake: and this men see, ād your forwardnes herein, hath enforced me to this answeare. Now, you take this office of determining these controuersies frō the Church, as wee haue seene oft before, ād if you would acknowledge it to be there I neede write no more of this matter. This throne was high: but you affect a higher yet, which I shew: for either in this matter of de­termining these controuersies, you giue place to the Spiritt, as to the iudge, or you doe not? if you doe, the Spirittes holie assistance is ex­tēded further then to your fundamentalles; if you doe not, you sitte in the throne ād iudge, for you determine them against vs. Let Chri­stians tell me now whether you vsurpe the place or not.

57. Sixtlie your errour is fūdamētall,6. Confirm [...] therfore the opposite which the Churche beleeue this a fundamentall truth. And consequentlie in your pr [...]ciples you must cōfesse that she doth not erre in it, for you say she erreth not in fū ­damētalls. That your errour is fundamētall I prooue, because that errour is fundamentall, which is the ground of infinite errours; but yours is the groūd of infinite errours, because it takes away the certaītie frō all Gods word, and all deuinitie, those fewe pointes onelie [Page 268] excepted, which you call fundamentall.

58. Moreouer to touch your fundamen­talles also:7. Confirm It takes away all certaintie in them; first because you leaue noe meanes to knowe which they be: and secondlie because you leaue noe meanes to know they be diuinelie reuealed, if it were knowne which in parti­cular they al were, for the authoritie of the Church proposeth equallie the whole Scrip­ture, and therfore if it sufficeth for any chap­ter or point, it sufficeth for euery chapter and euerie point. And the Spiritte of God did e­quallie direct the writer in all: and it is Gods word all: and therfore, if the Spiritts direction or Gods authoritie serue to warrant some, it serues to warrant all: and if it be not able to warrant all, it is vnable to warrant any at all.

59. You thinke I haue done now; but harke further: Your assertion doth scandalize the Christian world, if it may be scandalized; for you take away all certaintie from the word of God, in all pointes, and partes, but some twelue propositions which you call funda­mentall,8. Confirm denying that there is at all any me­anes to know certainlie that the rest is Gods word. This I proue, and I take the Gospell of S. Iohn: or, to declare it more fullie, I take all the Bible, and argue thus, Either the Spiritte of God doth assist his Church to know cer­tainlie that all in the Bible ouer and aboue [Page 269] your fūdamētall pointes, is the word of God, or it doth not? Make your choise. If it doth not, there is no way to know certainely that it is the word of God; for men of themselues and without Gods assistance, all might erre, especiallie in obscure matters as those are: and in this especiallie, which is to know whether God spake those wordes or noe. If it doth, the field is ours, for euerie thing there is not one of the fundamentalles,

60. The same argumente may be made of the sense of any place: for, either the place is fundamentall, and such are fewe by your ac­compt: or the place is not fundamentall: and then (excluding the assistance of the Spiritte) you haue noe waie to be assured of the sense.

61. Let vs ō to the triall of this argumēt. Opē your Bible, turne to the first Chapter of Gene­sis, and reade the first verse. In the begining God created heauē and earth. Of this verse I demaūd eight things. First whether you be certaine that it is the word of God, and how? Secōdlie whether it be a fundamentall place or be not Thirdlie how you doe know certainlie that it is, or that it is not fundamentall. Fourthlie whe­ther there be meanes to knowe certainlie the sense if neede require. Fiftlie what are the me­anes which may assure men of the sense. Six­tlie whether there be any meanes to knowe [Page 270] certainlie whether in these words be more li­terall sēses thē one. Seuenthlie whether the as­sistance of the Spiritte be or be not necessarie to the certaine knowledge or assurance of these things. Eightlie whether this assistance be promised to the Church or to others out of it, as to Heretiques and pagans. These eight things I demaund about that verse, and when you haue answeared them, I goe to the second verse, and demaund all the same. And thē I goe to the third, ād demaūd all the same. And when this Chapter is done, I goe to the next, and so on forwards thorough the Bible, verse after verse, till I come to the last verse in the Apocalyps or Reuelation.

62. You will peraduenture meruaile that I doe include that booke too because it is full of obscure mysteries; notwithstanding I will alonge thorough that allso, with all these de­maunds: for there are meanes to knowe that it is the word of God; and the Assistance of the spirit is sufficient to open the sense of each verse, when the circumstances doe require it, and you dispute against vs out of it, and alleage vnder the title of manifest Scripture free from all ambiguitie, the deepest mysteries that are there. Moreouer the Prophecies there con­tained will be manifest in the end, as the pro­phecies in the ould Testament of the Messias [Page 271] ād his Church are now opē to the world. The spiritte allso doth open to learned men many thīgs in the scripture which are hiddē frō the vulgar, ād are not yet by generall decree defi­ned, because the cōmō exigēce of the Church requires not the open and publique notice of thē: yet these might be defined if need were, as many things by occasiō of your heresies infe­sting and endangering Gods people, haue bene of late.

63. You will allso wōder that I speake of ma­ny senses: but I haue reasō to saie as I doe, be­cause Gods word is full of sense as before I said, and some tyme so many sēses doe occurre in the same speach, that it is not easie to deter­mine which God intendeth, or whether he doth intēd more thē one. And that I goe not further to fetch examples, the words now ci­ted are very hard. In the begining God created heauen and earth. what is this begining? what kind of making doth he speake of? what doth he meane by heauen and earth? In the begining God created heauen and earth. It is not easie to finde the sense of these words, as you will conceaue if you attend and ponder each. the begining, What is it? is it the begining of time which he meanes? or the begining of the works of God before he made time? or is this begining Gods eternall word? or what other thing is signified by these

[Page 272]64. Sainct Augustine a greate Scholler, and a man of the Church primitiue, and one of Gods elect, did search with great diligence, and earnest prayer in his ould age for the sense of this place, as you may reade in the [Page 273] twelfth booke of his Confessions, where ha­uing acknowledged the scripture [...] [...]o be so profound, that it is horrour to looke into thē, he brings many senses of these words, and after a longe discussion,Aug. l. 12. Confess. c. 31. and serious Weighing of the difficultie concludes thus. when one saith the prophet vnderstood that which I doe: and ano­ther that which I. I thīke I speake more religiouslie, why not both if both be true, and if any bodie seeth in these words some third thing or fourth, or some other at all whatsoeuer, why may not he be beleeued to haue seene all those things, by whom one God hath tempered holie writ to many mens iudg­ments, which were to see diuers things. then he adds something in commendation of that full kinde of stile, and in fine resolues. In any wise when he wrote these words, he vnderstood and thought whatsoeuer truth wee could find, and what­soeuer wee could not or cannot yet, but may be foūd in them. Marke this deuinitie well, and re­member whose it is.

65. I forbeare to speake of the Assistance gi­uen to the prophets and Euangelists, ād Apo­stles in all they did write, and publish as Gods word: which doth affoord me an other argu­mēt, as hard for you to answere as the former. I will not here discouer the gap you laie open to infinite Heresies, about admitting, about vnderstanding the word of God. I loathe to [Page 274] let the world see how scandalous your do­ctrine i [...] [...]w you oppose Christianitie vnder the colour of reformatiō, ād doe what you can to shake the foūdatiō of the faith, that others may stagger in all, as you peraduenture doe: ād so the deuill get the day. But all your ende­uours, poore men, come to short, you shoot your arrowes against heauē which they hurt not, but woūd your selues in the returne. The Church of God is built on a rocke, and a fewe words defend it (such is the power of the words of Iesus Christ) against all that Hereti­ques, and Pagans, and Persecutors, and impo­stors, and deuills,Matt. 16.18. can attempt. Thou art Peeter, and vppon this rocke will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it. These words haue defended it these sixteene hun­dred years against all aduersaries whatsoeuer, and wee were fooles if now wee should be afraid. Wee are safe; wee are secure. The sonne of God is our foundation, the holie Ghost is our direction, and our Lord round about vs for euer. I conclude: and because you seeme to take the SCRIPTVRE, the SPIRIT, IE­SVS CHRIST, for iudges of controuersies when you talke at home before your parish, to stop this bragge of yours I heere present this controuersie of ours about the assistance, to the SCRIPTVRE, to the diuine SPIRIT, [Page 275] to IESVS CHRIST, in these termes: whether the Spirit be to teach some truthes onelie which you call fundamentall, or others allso, which you call not fundamentall. The answeare is, ALL.Io. 16.13. The Spirit of truth shall teach you all truth. These be Gods words. I beleeue them: and here I rest.

THE FOVRTH CHAPTER. Shewing how Catholikes all beleue the same, though some more distinctly then others: and the reason why Heretickes agree not.

66. THat I may impart vnto you now the manner of discourse which I forme vnto my selfe sometymes in this businesse, you must vnderstād that the all-teaching Spirit or Holie Ghost is the Spirit of Vnitie, ād that his Organ is the Church wherin he remaines ād teaches as I haue declared. This Spiritte by the foresaid organ, or mouth of the Church deliuers the true sense of the Scripture: and those which beleeue and submitte their vn­derstādïg to this iudgmēt ād visible tribunall are all one in faith; euerie one beleeuing ALL which the Church thus assisted doth hold ād beleeue: and therfore all the same. If I thought you cōceaued not my meanīg I would deliuer [Page 276] my selfe plainer thus: The doctrine of the Catholique Church all together or the col­lection of points which it holds, is but one summe of doctrine, or collection of points. And not onelie the bodie of the Church takē in grosse, but euerie Catholique doth beleeue it all. And therfore take any two Catholiques whom soeuer, where and whensoeuer they liued, and their beleefe is the same to the last point or title: because each beleeues all that the other beleeues as I haue said. But the thing which troubles you is your ignorance in the manner.

67. Knowe therefore secondlie that two waies a mā may beleeue all which the Church teacheth, to be true. One waie is by acknow­ledging each point of her doctrine in particu­lar, because the Spirit of God in and by her doth auouch it: and this faith is vnfoulded. An other is, by acknowledging in generall and as it were in grosse, all to be true which the Church doth teach: not descending into the particular consideration of each: and this is implicite or infolded faith; because in it are in­folded all the particulars which the Church doth teach.

68. By this distinction of vnfoulded and infoulded faith you now know my meaning, and it is this; That the faith of all Catholikes [Page 277] both learned ād vnlerned, late ād aūciēt, is not equallie vnfoulded; but yet is all one: because that is infolded in ones faith, which is vnfoulded with an other. And thus a man who reades the Scripture and still doth increase in diuine knowledge, learning dailie more and more, is of the same religion and the same faith all the while. Thus are the people ād their pa­stors of the same religion though the pastors knowe and beleeue more in particular then the clownes euer heard of. Thus was S. Augu­stine, and his mother Monica of one religion, though she knewe not all the deuinitie or poīts of faith or Scripture in particular which he knewe. Thus were the Corinthians and S. Paul, thus are wee and the old Fathers: the Fathers and the Apostles, of the same religiō: and thus is the later Church and the primi­tiue vnited in faith. Because nothing is gene­rallie beleeued now, which was not then ge­nerallie beleeued; though now something be more vnfolded in the generall beleefe of the communitie (I saie nothing of some eminent men of those tymes) then was by the multi­tude beleeued in particular or vnfolded then: and something might haue bene then vnfol­ded which is not so commonlie knowne at this tyme. And no doubt but the Apostles knewe more in particular then mē doe nowe.

[Page 278]69. By the same doctrine you may vnderstād howe the Catholiques in the whole body frō the Apostles to this daie, though infinite, haue bene all of one religion and the same with vs; notwithstāding that each clowne knewe not all in particular which the learned did, yea notwithstāding many learned knewe not all in particular. And the reason is because in this principle I beleeue as the Church, and followe her iudgment in matter of faith, each had ALL, whe­ther he were learned or vnlearned: and euerie Catholique did this; and he who did it not, was no Catholique.

70. You thinke peraduenture that no two are exactlie of the same religiō, vnles their faith be equallie distinct in obiect, and vnfol­ded equallie; which conceipt if it were true, none were of the same religion with the A­postles in their tyme, nor with the holie Fa­thers in theirs, who beleeued not distinctlie and in particular, as many points as they did: which is a grosse errour in Christianitie, and makes as many religions allmost as men. Are you in your parish all of one religion or not? if you are, then by your rule (who cannot a­bide implicite faith) each old wife and yonge girle knowes as much in particular in the Bible and Deuinitie as your selfe; or if [Page 279] they doe not, I praie you tell me how they be exactlie of the same religion with you? I knowe you will runne to fundamentalls, but the shift will not serue, because agreement in fundamentalls in your sense doth not suffize to the exact agreement in religion, for wee and you be not of one religiō as all the world knowes, and yet you saie that wee disagree not in fundamētalls; and indeede there are infinite waies to erre against Faith: otherwise he that did obstinatelie denie all the Bible, and euerie verse of it, excepting those onelie wherin is one of your fundamentalls (which fundamē ­talls as you recon them are verie fewe, and contained in the Creede with baptisme and the supper) he I saie who did obstinatelie this, were no Heretique but a man of your religion exactlie: howsoeuer he be detested by the Christian world.

71. Hauing declared the reason whie Ca­tholiques are all of one religion, by reason of their common vnion in one vniuersall principle containing their particular consent in the rest as occasion doth require; to which generall principle they are all mo­ued by the words and promise of Ie­sus Christ: it is not amisse now to looke about for the originall cause why He­retiques [Page 380] are not all of one religion, since they resolue all, or pretend to resolue their faith into the Scripture, or the Spirit. I neede not goe farre to finde it out; for it is knowne by the definition of an Heretique. He is a man who makes his owne election by his priuate iudgment in matter of religion. And thence it is that hauing cast of Church authoritie, ād putt his owne witt in place to iudge, each takes where and what he likes: and their iud­gments being diuers they take diuers things and expound diuerslie.

74. Neither doth the scripture serue the turne in this case; first because there is disagreement which is Scripture: which cause must, be first determined by some iudge, and this iudge to each Heretick is his owne witt. Secōdlie it is ob­scure, ād therefore there is infinite varietie in guessing at the meaning of it, as wee see by the experience of many hundred yeares, and in this case likewise each Heretique doth a­dore his owne iudgment. As for the spirit, that of God is not among Heretiques: but in the Church, as I haue prooued: since therfore they are not the Church, and their Spirit op­posite, it followes that it is another, and that erroneous. And by the mulplicitie of iudg­ments and contradictions among them selues [Page 281] it appeares euidentlie that they are many: and no meruaile, since each crowcheth vnto his owne; since each hath his Maozim within himselfe. This therfore is the reason whie A­rians, Nestorians, Lutherans &c. though they be all against the Catholique, be not of one religion among them selues.

73. Neither would the consequence be good if you should argue thus. Luther rece­aues the letter of Scripture, and Caluin re­ceaues the letter of Scripture, therefore Lu­ther and Caluin are of one Religion: it doth not hold I say, since they receaue not the same sense, nor are vnited, in any one common meane to receaue it. And were the argument good it would prooue Caluinists and Arians to be of the same Religion, since each receaue the letter.

74. Hence it comes allso that all Heretiques cannot haue one definition, but that euery one is to be defined according to the points he doth hold in particular; because of his dif­ference from others in the sense, though per­haps he admitte the letter with others. And in taking this sense he is not bounded by any authoritie common to him and to other He­retiques, but onelie by his owne will and con­ceit. Since therefore there is difference a­monge Heretiques, and that this difference is [Page 282] not by meanes of the letter,Reflect well on all this when you answe­are the first booke. nor of any com­mon good Spiritt (for that would not con­tradict it selfe, as they do each other) this dif­ference cannot be taken but from the sense, imaginatiō, ād will of each partie; and there­fore each partie must be defined by his owne wit, or by all his opinions in matter of faith.

75. And here I answeare to your common replie of the Schoolemens disagreement in Schoole-questiōs; for (notwithstāding the va­rietie of opiniōs in matters not defined by the Church before or in their tyme) all Schoole­men that were Catholiques did agree in faith; and all did beleeue the same, according as I haue said before of other men. Each of them tooke the iudgment of the Church for infallible: therein beleeuing all whatsoe­uer she either had or hereafter would deter­mine. This did euerie Schoole man; euerie Catholique Deuine, euerie Father.

76. This way S. Augustine doth excuse S. Cyprian in the matter of rebaptization, Before the consent of the whole Church, by the decree of a plenarie or generall Councell, S. Aug li. 1. de Bapt cont. Don. c. 18. had determined what was to be embraced of all in that controuersie (of rebaptizing the recōciled) S. Cypriā with allmost fowerscore of his fellow African Bysshops did thinke that euerie one who was baptized out of the Catholique cōmunion ought to be baptized againe, [Page 283] when he had reconciled himselfe to the Church. As yet there had bene no generall Coūcell assembled in that behalfe but the world was held in by the strength of custome, l. 2 c. 9. and this custome onelie was op­posed to those which endeuoured to bringe in that noueltie of rebaptization, because they could not apprehend the truth: yet afterwards whilst among many on both sides it is spoken of and sought, it is not onelie found out, but allso brought to the auto­ritie and strenght of a generall Councell, after Cy­prians passion indeede, but yet before I was borne. A precedēt plenarie, may be a­mēded by a subsequent plenarie in matters o [...] fact And in faith a generall not approued, by a generall approued Councell. In the same place by occasion of the Coun­cells by S. Cyprian and his predecessors made in Africke, he saith that particular Councells must yeld to generall, and that the whole is deser­uedlie preferd before the part, or particulars. More ouer in the same booke a little before he pro­oues out of S. Cyprians words that if S. Cy­prian had knowne of such a definition he would haue corrected his opinion, and then shewes how much he doth relie on it him­selfe, Neither durst wee affirme any such thinge if wee were not well grounded vppon the most vni­forme authoritie of the vniuersall Church, l. 2. c. 4. vnto which vndoubtedlie S. Cyprian allso would haue yeelded if in his tyme the truth of this question had bene cleered, and declared, S. Augu­stines Sp [...] rit. and by a generall Coūcell establisshed. And of the same againe he hath an excellent discourse in the fift booke where [Page 284] amonge other things, he saith that he pleaseth not the Saint if he seeke to preferre his wit and elo­quence, and store of learning before the holie Councell of all Nations, [...] 5. e. 17. to which doubtles he was present by vnitie of Spirit. and, if I with the whole world do iudge more truelie, [...]bid. I do not pre­ferre my hart before him, neither is he in that he iudged otherwise deuided from the whole world, [...]bid. I preferre not my opinion before his, but the iudgmēt of the holy Catholique Church: [...] Cuius vni­ [...]ersitas ip­ [...] non fuit [...]d in eius [...]niuersita­ [...] perman­ [...]t. all which he was not, but remained in it. This is inough for my purpose, and in the same principles of S. Au­gustine you see now that I can answeare any obiection that you can bringe out of the dis­sention, of ancient or moderne writers: or ra­ther if you reflect on it well, you will be able to answeare it all your selfe.

77. This passage hath made me call to minde other speaches of the Fathers not farre from this purpose, whereof I thinke it not amisse to put some downe for your better meditation, if you will be pleased peraduenture to thinke more seriouslie on their words then you haue done hetherto on mine. The truth of the scrip­ture is helde of vs in this matter when wee doe that which pleaseth the whole Church, Aug. l. 1. [...]nt. Cres. [...]3. the which the authoritie of the scriptures doth commend, that because the holy Scriptures cannot deceaue, who­soeuer feareth to be deceaued with the obscuritie of [Page 285] this question, let him require the iudgment of the Church which the holie scripture without any am­biguitie doth demonstrate. Vincent. lirin. con [...] Haeres. c. 2 [...] It is necessarie by reason of the windings of vnconstant errour, that the line of propheticall ād Apostolicall interpreta­tion be directed according to the rule of the Eccle­siastical and Catholique sense. And in the Catho­lique Church likewise wee must haue a greate care that wee hold that which hath bene beleeued euery where, euer, and by all: c. 3. for this is truelie ād properlie Catholique as the power and reason of the word or name doth import, which truelie doth cōprehend all vniuersallie. And this is so done in fine if wee fol­lowe vniuersalitie, antiquitie, consent: vniuersalitie wee followe if wee confesse that one faith to be true, which the whole Church thorough the world doth acknowledge: and Antiquitie if wee do not in any sort leaue those senses which it is manifest that our Fathers and holie elders haue celebrated and com­mended: and consent allso if wee followe the defini­tions ad decrees of all or neere all the Priests and Masters in Antiquitie.

78. A protestant would thinke me vnrea­sonable if I should demand and exact all these conditions in euery protestant proposition be­fore I beleeue it: yet I will beleeue none of their doctrine vnles it be thus prooued, nor all their Religion vnles it be thus prooued all, which is as much to say as that by Gods grace [Page 286] I will neuer beleeue it. Wee haue possessiō; the spirit is in our Church, ād this father was of it, ād doth acknowledge it of greater authori­tie, of more infallibilitie then himselfe, ād his rules were ruled by it, but I goe on. In the An­tiquitie of the Church two things are constantlie and with greate care to be obserued, Idem c. 41 to both which all they that will not become Heretiques must steed fastlie adhere. The first is, whatsoeuer is auncien­tlie decreed by all the Priests of the Catholique Church in a generall Councell; secondlie if any newe question doth arise concerning which there is no such decree to be founde, then must recourse be made to the iudgment of the holie Fathers: I say of those onelie, who euery one in their owne tyme were found to be approued masters continuing still in the vnitie of communion and faith. And whatsoeuer they are founde to hold with one and the same mea­ning and consent, that without all scruple ād doubt must be the true and Catholique doctrine of the Church. Whosoeuer beleeue that Christ came in our flesh, and that he arose from death to life in the same flesh in which he was borne and suffered, S. Aug. de Vnit. Eccl. c. 4. and that he is the sonne of God, God with God, and one with the Father, and the one vnchangeable word of the Father by which all things are made: but do so disagree with his body which is the Church, that they hold not communion with the whole as farre as euer it is spred about the world but are found se­parate in some part or corner, it is manifest that [Page 287] they are not in the Catholique Church. Prosp. de promiss. & praedic. Dei par. 4. c. 5. The Apostles Peeter and Paul, deliuering in the cittie of Rome, to posterity, the doctrine of our Lord, peaceable and one; haue consecrated the Church of the Gentiles with their blood and memories, according to the passiō of our Lord. A Christiā cōmunicating with this generall Church, is a Catholique. S. Cypri. de Vnit. Eccl. He that is se­parated frō it, is an Heretique. There is one heade, ād one origē, ād one mother, by the issue of her fecū ­ditie copious, by her increase wee are borne, wee are nourished with her milke, with her spirit wee are a­nimated. The Spouse of Christ cannot be defiled with adultery: shee is pure, and honest. She knoweth one house, and with chast bashfullnes, keepeth the sanctity of one bed. This Church preserueth vs in God; this aduanceth to the kingdome, the children she hath brought foorth. VVhosoeuer, deuided from this Church, cleaueth to the adultresse, he is separa­ted from the promises of the Church. He cannot haue God his Father, who hath not the Church to his mother. In the Church, S. Iren. l. 9 adu. Haere [...] c. 40. God hath constitu­ted Apostles, Prophets, Doctors; and all the rest of the operation of the Spirit: of which those are not partakers, who repaire not vnto the Church. VVhere the Church is, THERE IS THE SPI­RIT of God: and where the Spirit of God is, there is the Church, and all grace. Idem l. [...] c. 4 [...]. VVee must obay those Priests that are in the Church: those that haue Suc­cession from the Apostles: who tegeather with [Page 288] Episcopall power, haue according to the good plea­sure of the Father, receaued the certaine guift of truth. And, all the rest who depart from the origi­nall Succession (wheresoeuer they be assembled) to haue suspected, either as Heretiques, or Schismati­ques or Hypocrites: [...]actant. [...]. 4. [...] [...]nstitut. c. [...]lt. and all these doe fall from the truth. It is onely the Catholique Church that hath the true worship and seruice of God. This is the wellspring of truth, the dwelling place of faith, the temple of God, into which whosoeuer entreth not, and from which whosoeuer departeth, is without all hope of life, [...]. Aug. de [...]de ad [...]et. c. 39. and eternall Saluation. Hold for most certaine and vndoubted that no Heretique nor Schismatique, though baptized in the name of the father and of the sonne, and of the holy Ghost, though he giue almes neuer so largely, yea though he shed his blood for the name of Christ, can possi­blie be saued, vnles he be reconciled vnto the Ca­tholique Church.

70. I omit many other graue speaches of holie Fathers to this effect of consenting with the Church in faith, and submitting our iud­gment thereunto: And of S. Augustine par­ticularlie (whom I do alleage more willinglie because you pretēd to honour him) as where he saith for his part he would not beleeue the Gos­pell, [...]. Aug. cōt. Ep. fund. c. [...]. vnles the authoritie of the Church moued him. That he was held in the Church by the consent of people, [...]. c. 4. and Nations, by an authoritie begotten [Page 289] with miracles, nourished with hope, increased by an­tiquitie. And that it is a point of most insolent madnes to dispute whether that be to be obserued which is frequented by the whole Church through the world. Ep. 118. c. [...] Moreouer what S. Augustine said of S. Cyprian, he might haue said of any other father: to wit, that he would haue yelded to the au­thority of the Church: Neither would the Fa­thers hold communion with any who did oppose themselues to the definitions of ge­nerall Councells, or to the doctrine of the Church, but held them for Heretiques.

81. And thus much for this point: wherein I haue not alleaged the foresaid authorities to moue you: for I knowe that in yourVide I. Rain. Concl. 2. fine. conscien­ce you will not yeeld to the Fathers, neither a part, nor all together in Generall Councell: nor stoope to their Spirit: nor beleeue their Creede. But I haue done it to shewe you, that I haue learned of them the doctrine which I tould you: and that by their exāple I do submit my vnderstāding to the Church in all cōtrouersies, and securelie rest in her iudg­mēt, For she with infinite eies doth allwayes diligentlie looke on Gods word, ād with infi­nite care, ād industrie attends vnto the truth. Good wits though learned may mistake: each scholler is not a Saīt; the guifts of the Spirit are deuided amōg mē; But all the treasure of the [Page 290] spirit, all the Saints ād Predestinate, the highest Authoritie; ād all meanes possible for mortall men to learne the truth, are in the Church. There the Angells of the Gospell deliuer the will of the diuine Maiestie, there the Secre­taries of heauen do register Gods words, and there Iesus Christ our Master doth teach and bringe vp his Elect, and prepare them for his high Schoole of deuinitie, wherein the Che­rubins and Seraphins haue their order. From ^* [Page 291] this Church the Fathers had instruction; to the iudgment of this communitie, the grea­test iudgments did euer stoupe: Their practise doth so demonstrate, Their books for them confesse it still. And this is our practise allso, this is our resolution; wee confesse it, wee professe it. wee rest in the iudgment of Gods Spirit in the Catholique Church; and to this Tribunall (be you neuer so vnwilling) you must allso come as I haue declared in this booke: and here all * Cōtrouersie must be de­termined. Wee doe not flie the Scripture; wee haue it: wee haue the Reuerence of Antiqui­tie on our side: and reason pleads for vs: but here the cause is ended. When you do que­stion the reall presence, iustification by woorks, S. Peeters primacie, and alleage Scri­pture; wee do likewise alleage Scripture, and so pregnant that you cannot reallie ans­weare; and then alonge wee goe to be iud­ged by the diuine spirit in the Church, where wee are certaine he is, and teacheth all truth. When you say, this or that booke is not Scrip­ture: this was, or was not receaued in the primitiue Church; the sēse of the letter is this or that, Wee examine all, and then appeale to to the Spirit in the Church where wee are sure he is suggesting all whatsoeuer the Sonne of God hath reuealed, and taught to be rece­aued [Page 292] and beleeued of men. When you pretēd that our doctrine is against reason, against holy Fathers, against Antiquitie, wee produce testimonies of auncient Fathers, and reason for our side, and then submit the cause to the Spirit in the Church, which looking on all truth, can iudge best what is most confor­mable to reason, to the Fathers, to all Anti­quitie. And when you say that the Councells contradict one another; that there are con­tradictions in the Scripture: Wee are satisfied in these points allso by the Spirit in Church, as being the highest Iudge of all cōtrouersies, of infinite vnderstanding, and no lesse infi­nite veracitie. So that all particular Contro­uersies do runne into this generall Principle to be resolued: and this Principle wee haue in plaine termes from the mouth of God.

THE FIFT CHAPTER. Wherein some exceptions are answeared.

82. THe obiections which you and your fellowes make are partlie against the infallibilitie of the Catholique Church in it selfe, and partlie against the infallibilitie of generall Councells, where Bisshops are assembled out of all Countries to determine commonlie by diuine assistance what be­longs to faith, and what is cōtrarie therevnto. Of this second part, it being not the whole Church formallie in it selfe (whereof I haue intreated hetherto,) but the whole in re­presentation onelie, as deuines tearme it, I will speake a word or two hereafter, And will answeare that heere, which you bring against the first, which is the matter wee haue in hand. You are to shewe, not that some par­ticular man or some part of the Church might fall of, and leaue to be part of the Catholique not-erring Church, for that wee see cleerelie in your masters Luther, Caluin, and others which once were Catho­liques: ād in the Church of Englād which was [Page 294] in the communion of the Church for a thou­sand yeeres together, and by that communiō Catholique, as being then part of Gods Church. And is now fallen into schisme and Heresie: but you must proue that the Catholi­que Church may erre in faith, or to vse your owne termes, that all the Church of God may be in errour, affirming and beleeuing contrarie to that which is true in faith.

83. And first I obserue that if you did vn­derstand your owne principles, you would dispaire of the successe of your owne argu­ments, because by those principles of yours all that you can say, may iustlie be contem­ned. This I demonstrate: for you will either prooue this doctrine of the Churches infalli­bilitie in the sense wherein wee defend it, to be an errour fundamentall, or to be some other er­rour not fundamentall. The first you cannot pretend without contradicting your selfe presentlie, for you saie allso that the Church cannot erre in fundamentalls, and that ours in fundamētalls doth not erre, granting with­all when you are well vrged, that ours is the Church, and if you should start backe and de­nie it againe you will finde it vnder double proofe in another place. The Second you cannot as much as pretend to prooue and de­monstrate in your principles, because accor­ding [Page 295] to thē you can take no meanes where­of you are certaine: not reason, for all men may erre in obscure matters: nor Fathers, for in your principles all might erre: nor place of Scripture; for you haue no meanes to knowe certainlie that it is the word of God, the place not being one of your fundamentalles: nor the Spirit, because in not fundamentalls he assisteth not, as you say and maintaine in this question, or if he doth assist in this verie mat­ter whether you call it fundamentall or not fundamentall, he doth assist the Church; for to the Church is the promise made.

84. Thus you very wiselie haue ouer rea­ched your selfe, and left your selfe no me­anes to prooue any thing against vs, either in this controuersie or in any other, for funda­mentallie you confesse wee haue not erred, and in other things by your owne principles you are not certaine. Yet to gull the people, you bringe texts not fundamentall according to your distinction, and cry out Scripture Scripture, the Gospell, the word of God. And if you finde a place in S. Augustine which neither your parishioners nor your selfe doe vnderstand, you challenge vs to the Fathers, whereas in your conscience you beleeue for certaine neither Fathers nor scripture, but o­nelie some places which you call fundamen­tall: [Page 296] neither do you acknowledge anie meanes in the world either from God or man to be sure of things not fundamentall (as you tearme them) as I haue shewed before: and the same these your protestant arguments which followe, would faine prooue.

85. The first argument to this end is made against the Church in the state of the old lawe before the cōming of the Messias and therfore is nothing to the purpose, because wee speake of the Christian Church, as it is established by Iesus Christ and gouerned by his Spirit, which Church is not limited vnto one Nation onelie, but ouer all the world, and therefore Catholique; and of this I haue pro­ued and wee do beleeue that in faith it is in­fallible. Notwithstanding to maintaine the infallibilitie of the Iewish Church too before the Messias came (which is an other questiō) I resolue your doubt made against it. You say the people of Israel did adore the brazen calfe therefore the Church all did erre. You should haue prooued that all did adore the calfe, that Moyses, and the Leuites all did: which you will neuer prooue as long as the Bible is extant. If you reade Exodus in the two and thitieth chapter you shall finde that when Moyses had saide, if any man be our Lords let him ioyne to me, there gathered vnto [Page 297] him all the Sonnes of Leuie. Exod. 32.26. And these were no small company as you may gather out of the booke of Numbers.Num. 3. v. 39. Next you say Elias did complaine that he was left alone, This makes a shewe, and is repeted ouer and ouer in your books and your pulpittes. The truth is that there were at the same tyme diuers in Israel where this Prophet was,3. Kings. 19. v. 18. Rom. 11.4. which bowed not before Baal, of which number God said to E­lias, he would reserue seauen thousand. And at the same tyme allso in the kingdome of Iu­da there was publique profession of the true religion at Ierusalem. Wherefore you cannot prooue by this place that the Church failed and was not visible on the earth, if wee would graunt you (as you haue seene wee neede not) that it was not visible in the kingdome of Israel at that tyme. Neither was it neces­sarie to the visibilitie of it, that it should be still visible in both kingdomes, one of thē one­lie doth suffice for this purpose, in case all in the other had forsaken God. Let vs now come to the Catholique and Chri­stian Church.

86. In the second argument you taxe the Apostles,1. Rainold [...] and first accuse S. Peeter of false doctrine because he was reprehended by S. Paul. Then further you condemne the Apo­stles all of errour against faith, in not beleeuīg [Page 298] the resurrection. To that of S. Peeter which old Heretiques obiected, it was answeared fourteene hundred yeers agoe that it was a fault of conuersation which he was taxed for, not of doctrine. The fault is set downe by S. Paul in these words,Gal. 2.12. for before certaine came frō Iames, he, Peeter, did eate with the Gentiles, but when they were come he withdrewe and separated himselfe, fearing them that were of the circumci­sion. This cariage of S. Peeter, S. Paul did repre-to Iudaize his making others by his example hend; and was in this. But here is no false do­ctrine maintained ād published by him: much lesse by the Apostles all, taught and generallie by the Church beleeued; whereof wee speake now. In the conuersatiō of the Popes which you taxe by this occasion there may haue bene faults allso; for they were men; but from them in generall Councells there hath come no false doctrine, nor euer will.

87. The second parr of your obiection hath no difficultie, because wee knowe that the Apostles did learne the particulars of faith by degrees as you may obserue easilie in the Gospell: ād their slownes to beleeue the point mentioned, but not any errour maintained by them for Christian doctrine, was reprehen­ded. Neither was the all-teaching Spirit, as yet come; our Sauiour not being ascended: who therefore did instruct thē in the matter [Page 299] his owne selfe. Now the thinge that wee de­fend is, not that the Apostles beleeued all in particular from the first tyme they were cal­led, or that in conuersation nothing euer hapned amisse in any one of them, but that after the comming of the holie Ghost the Catholi­que Church did neuer beleeue or teach errour in matter of faith: which I would haue you to read ouer and ouer that you mistake not the matter, but argue to the purpose.

88. A third argument which I thought good to put in this place touches the resolu­tion of our faith into the Church, which re­solution seemes not firme because it is made into authoritie not diuine. To this I answeare that the authoritie of the Church alone if you consider it apart, not adding thereunto the authoritie of the Assisting Spirit, is greater then any other authoritie in the world that is distinct from the diuine authoritie. And this by reason of an infinite multitude of learned and holy men which are in it: of infinite mi­racles which doe giue testimonie of a greatnes which nature wonders at: of the strange v­nion of worlds of people in one obscure faith, with a constancie which neither flat­tery nor feare can shake, which vnion doth acknowledge no cause in nature, since nature inclines not so constantlie to communion ād [Page 300] vniforme iudgment in things not found in nature, as God incarnate, the sonne in sub­stance and power all one with his Father, ād yet distinct in person, and the like. The autho­ritie I say of the Church by reason of these and such other motiues is the greatest of all authorities among men: in so much that no other is any way equall to it: and therfore none able to drawe a wise man from it.

89. Yet this alone is not the thing where­vnto wee do make the last resolution of our faith: But wee make it into the testimonie of allmightie God in the Church: This testimonie doth originallie moue our faith. The sunne is allwayes visible in it selfe; but cannot be seene of vs vnles it be in the Orbe aboue our hemisphere: and when it is risen, the eleua­tion doth not principallie moue our eie, but the sunne in that eleuation doth moue it to see both sunne and heauen, and all other things which the light comes vppon. So Gods eternall word of it selfe is euer apt to moue, and to be seene, though wee cannot discouer it with the eie of faith, vnles it be ex­posed or proposed to vs in the firmament of the Church: or some other way equiualent. But if it be so applied our faith discerns the word and the Church proposing it and all other things that are reuealed. Wherein the [Page 301] Church-proposition doth concurre instru­mentallie, with subordination to the Word of God: and of them both in seuerall kinds our faith depends.

90. Wee resolue therefore into authori­tie truely diuine; into the diuine Spirit teach­ing in the Church. Or, if you will haue a lon­ger way, which in effect is all one, wee do re­solue into the present Church, assisted with the Spirit: This present Church doth resolue into the Church in the former age, assisted by the Spirit; that againe into a former age, ād so to the Apostles: they resolue into Christ. Where you finde the like as before. that is, the eternall, and increated word, mouing by way of humane speach: and the Apostles faith de­pending (though diuerslie) on both at once, that is, on the eternall word, as on the originall motiue: and, on the word of his mouth, as on the Application.

91. If you would haue yet another waie, take the motiues of faith all together, or the collection of them, as applications, and the prime veriry as formall obiect: and you haue all that you iustlie can desire. In the collectiō of motiues I doe include the whole Church these sixteene hundred yeares: and the Apostles and Iesus Christ, as he ap­peared and taught: and all the miracles [Page 302] done in cōfirmation of the Christian Catho­lique faith: the conuersion of the world from bad to good, which cā be from no bad cause: the prophecies of the old and newe Testa­ment: and whatsoeuer els learned men vse to bringe to this purpose. And taking in this collection all that which is distinct from the increated authoritie of allmightie God, I call it the condition, circumstance or application of the formall obiect: which formall obiect is the diuine veritie reuealing. Further I must not goe, because the diuine veritie is infinite, and therfore able to moue any vnderstanding: and the circumstances are beyond all exceptiō to warrant the prudēce of my choise. I haue vsed some Schoole termes in this answeare; but you must pardon me, for it is a Schoole point, as you knowe and fit for Schollers onelie.

92. A fourth exception is, that you seeke the will of God more sincerely, and therefore enioy the assistance, which wee doe not be­cause wee relie onely on men. This argument is allreadie answeared in effect: wee depend on men proposing and as instrumentall, or ministeriall causes vnder Iesus Christ the greate Pastor: And sure the Apostles on whome the primitiue Church depended were men allso. But principallie wee depend [Page 303] on Iesus Christ, and the holie Ghost assisting in ād by the Church. For your sincere seeking of the truth it is a friuolous pretense, since you do not take the meanes by God ordained to finde it. Iesus Christ hath left it in the Church, and if you would finde it, you should looke it there. Your pretence of prayer, and the guift of interpretation, and conference of places, are trickes onelie to delude fooles; for all wise mē knowe that Christ hath bestowed all helpes necessary vppon the Church: and that in the Church are the power of inter­pretation, and sanctitie, and generallie all the guifts of the holy Ghost. Wherefore you are first to prooue that you are the Church, be­fore you challenge the Spirit, and his guifts: till then wee number you amōge those who come in at the windowe to rob and steale the soules out of men; and indeuour allso as much as lies in you to rob the Church of God of her endowments.

93. For the sanctitie of our Church, where­with you would equall yours, I remitte you to Baronius Martyrologe, and desire to see the like catalogue from your holie number. But who knowes not that it is proper to the Catholique Church to breede Saints, and that thence are those which out of all Na­tions, tribes, and tongues, are chosen to raigne [Page 304] with Iesꝰ Christ. Yet are not all in this Church truelie Saincts: there are degrees of incorpo­tion and vnion to the heade and members. Some are vnited by faith and charitie, some by faith and exterior communion, but want Charitie, and they haue some kinde of motiō and influence from Christ the heade: for without him none can beleeue a right: and they are part of the great mysticall body the Church. Yet they want the princi­pall vnion; which vnion will be perfect and constant in heauen, where the Church shall see the deitie of the sonne of God; But here, good and bad are mixt: yet so, that the Church militant shall neuer be without many good and holie men, according to the Scripture This is the couenant which I will make with the house of Israel saith our Lord, Ierem. 30. v. 33. spea­king of the Christian Church, I will giue my lawe in their bowells, and in the hart of them will write it, and will be to them a God, and they shall be my people. Ezech. 37. v 27. And in Ezechiel. I will giue my sanctification in the middest of them for euer.

94. If you aske me whether the Church may be said to sinne, since there be sinners in the Church. I answeare, no. If any sinne, it is not by meanes of the Church; but con­trarie to her direction and Spirit. And, if any [Page 305] erre, it is not by her meanes, but contrarie to her Spirit and proposition. So that, nei­ther the sinne, nor the errour of particular men can iustlie be attributed vnto the Church, since they worke not in those cases by the common iudgment and direction of the Church, but by their owne priuate appre­hensions and affections contrary to the Churches will and rule. As when one in a well-instituted common-wealth doth se­cretlie steale, and murder; it is his priuate action: it is not the action of the common wealth, but flatlie against the will and lawes of it. This onely I will note in this matter, that euery mortall sinne doth not destroy all incorporatiō; and therefore a man may be in mortall sinne, and yet in the Church, for he which beleeueth, doth participate some kinde of life, though imperfect as I said before. Nei­ther is it necessarie that in each part all vitall powers be: for a mans foote doth participate life but cannot see, nor heare, nor imagine as doth the heade.

95. In the next place insteede of an argu­mēt I note your vanitie in heaping things to­gether to winne the vulgar. Your silken dis­courses vnles they be flowred with histories of Popes, Friars and Monkes, are not gaudie, and therefore this embrodery must not be [Page 306] wanting. I will not loose tyme to rehearse the particulars, but in generall answeare thus. First if amonge twelue Apostles pict out by our Sauiour Iesus Christ, one was naught and proued an Apostata, it can be no meruaile if amonge more then two hundred Popes elected by men, some fewe did amisse, Nei­ther can their faults preiudice Papall autho­ritie, ād the generall doctrine of the Church, or redound vnto it, more then did the Apo­stasie of Iudas preiudice Apostolicall power, and christianitie, or redound vnto the rest. You should haue considered rather, that ma­ny Bishops of the Roman See are knowne Saincts.

96. I answeare secondlie for Friars, that their rule is good, holie, and beyond all iust excep­tion, and therefore if any not conforming themselues to this rule, by weaknes faile and liue amisse, the profession is no more to be cōdemned for it, then is Christianitie for the wicked conuersation of many that professe it. And the stories of Friars which you haue are but fewe, some dozen peraduenture, were they a thousand the matter were not greate, whereas in all the Catholique world are Friars. And touching Monkes it is the same; their Rule is holie and their conuersation [Page 307] such as crownes and scepters haue ben left for to learne it;33. milliā Abbatiarū. & 14. mil­lia Prio­ratuum. Genebr an. 524. Or­dinis Prae­dicatorum feruntur fuisse 4143. coenobia. id an. 1216. Francisca­norum suo tempore 90. millia fuisse scri­bit Sabel­licus En­nead. dec. 9. l. 9. their institution hath bred many Saincts, and their Order hath ben so gene­nerally spred, that they haue had many thou­sand monasteries at a time. Among so many to haue happened a few disorders is no wonder; but to thinke that your stories, put case they were in parte true (which is not worth examination) can preiudice the rule and institution, is very childish.

97. Of Catholiques in generall I haue spokē all readie: they were not all saincts in the Pri­mitiue Church, neither be they all saincts at this day. Many are called fewe chosen: Good ād bad are mingled here: The spouse is blacke ād faire. In the Churches decrees there is no er­rour against faith; no rule against manners: Her rule is irreprehensible, being the rule of Christianitie; And when any thing is amisse in mens cariage or behauiour towards God or man, she doth admonish and punish as occasion requires. Hence haue come all those decrees of reformation made in Councells generall and particular, which you haue seene more then once. In an infinite number to haue some disorders is incident, and wee were foretould that scandalls should be.Mat. 18. But consider further, that this Church hath an in­finite cōpanie of holie men likewise, and that [Page 308] all which arriue to glorie shall haue liued in this Church,Apoc. 7. and those of all tribes, tongues, and Nations. For this very Church, though not according to all the materiall parts, shall triumphe, as I haue said in an other place, and in state of triumphe, shall be all faire, and all ouer without spot: she shall be without actuall or originall or veniall sinne, when she comes with open eies to looke the prime veritie in the face, and to embrace the diuine goodnes, with all the latitude of her soule.

THE SIXT CHAPTER. Of the Protestant multiplication of Churches by visible and inuisible.

68. IN this place before I conclude I haue a word more to say about your distin­ction of visible and inuisible. I thought once to make it a Chapter in the first booke; one of your greate leaps when you are pursued en­ding in it. From Luthers Schoole you skip into Waldoes, from thence you thrust your selues on vs, from vs to the Church primitiue and from the primitiue Church you get quite out of the eies of the whole world, and be­take your selues to Inuisibilitie. In regard I there pursued you, I thought (I say) to speake [Page 309] allso of the distinction there: But the thinge will be more easie now because in many places as occasions were offered I haue discoused of the^* Visibilitie of Gods Church. The Church of Gods is one and visible as the Scripture doth witnes: Yet you with two words visible and inuisible, haue made a distinction to rend it in­to two, and do maintaine stoutlie that God hath two Churches, one inuisible, consisting of predestinate persons onelie, The other vi­sible, which doth exteriorlie professe the faith.

99. The whole companie of the faith full may be deuided into two parts by God all­mightie, the one part is predestinate, the other part is the companie of those which are not predestinate. By this, the whole is suffi­cientlie deuided, for euerie man in the com­panie belongs to one part or member of the diuision, and no man belongs to both. For you cannot affirme two con­tradictories of the same, as to say, Peeter is predestinated, and Peeter is not predestina­ted. This being so I demaund now which of [Page 310] these companies is visible, and which inui­sible? And what makes the one to be so ra­ther, then the other? If predestination make men inuisible, whie doth not reprobation make men inuisible, since reprobation is a se­cret as hard to knowe? If profession of the faith make the reprobate visible, whie can not profession make the predestinate men vi­sible? And if these companies be together mingled, why are they not both visible, or both inuisible? or rather whie is not the whole companie visible, by reason of the profes­sion and communion, though Gods disposi­tion towards this and that man in particular be inuisible and secret?

100. Wee beleeue that the whole compa­nie of Catholiques is the Church, as I haue declared larglie heretofore: Wee beleeue that the predestinate are in this companie: that they die all of them in the communion of the Church: and that here they professe their faith. This I will declare brieflie, and then I will be so bould as to demand some questions touching your inuisible congrega­tiō, for looke on it I may not, because it is not to be seene.

101. First therefore if the thing be well considered it is manifest that the predestinate doe professe their faith, and thereby do mani­fest [Page 311] themselues to be the seruants of Iesus Christ: and this allso our Sauiour Christ re­quireth of his seruants,Matth. 10.32.33. euery one that shall con­fesse me before men, I allso will confesse him before my father: but he that shall denie me before men, I will denie him before my father which is in heauen Euerie one that confesseth me before men the sonne of man allso will confesse him before the Angells of God: Luke 12. v. 8.9. But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the Angells of God. Herevpon the Martyrs of Iesus Christ which haue bene at all tymes, and whereof all Christian Nations haue yeelded store; haue openlie in the face of persecution made profession of their faith, and thereby they were visible, and being Martyrs were allso members of the predesti­nated Church, they were predestinate. The predestinate therefore, and the visible profes­sors of the faith may be in one and the same Church, yea the same man may be predesti­nate and allso visiblie professe the faith.

102. Secondlie it is manifest that the Apo­stles were visible professors of the faith, and therefore members of the visible Church of God; and they were allso predestinate and therefore mēbers of the predestinate Church: The same men therefore may be visible and predestinate. The same Church may be visi­ble and predestinate: and consequentlie visibi­litie [Page 312] and predestinatiō deuide not the Church into two Churches. As I said of the Apostles and Martyrs, so I say of the holie Doctors of the Church: they did preach and teach visi­blie, they were knowne farre and neere, and were ptedestinate allso, whereby it is manifest that the predestinate did professe their faith the same faith with other Catholiques, with others in their communion, and were visible.

103. Thirdlie the Apostolique Church is visible, it includes essentiallie publique per­sons, As Apostles, and their Successors, Apo­stolicall men for conuersion of Nations; Bis­shops; Pastors; Doctors, as you knowe by Scripture: Now these publike persons are ma­nifestlie visible: Pastors, to their flocke: Bis­shops, to their Diocese, Apostles and Aposto­licall men to the Nations they conuert: The Apostolicall Chutch therefore is visible. And you knowe further that the holie Catholique and Apostolicall Church are one and the same, for so it is in the Creede. I beleeue one holie Catholique and Apostolicall Church: Symb. Cō ­stant. and this Creede you professe that you beleeue, ād you put it allso amonge the fundamentalls of your faith. The Catholik therefore and holy Church is visible.

104. Fourthlie, if the Church be the mysti­call [Page 313] bodie of Iesus Christ, and this bodie one, whereof visible men are members, and Pre­destinate allso members of the same; then are there not two Churches of Christ, one vi­sible, the other inuisible; Now, it is most cer­taine by the testimonie of holie Scripture that the Church is the mysticall bodie of Christ, ād that this mysticall bodie, is but one, wherein are visible and predestinated persons therefore there are not two Churches of Christ, one visible, the other inuisible; two bodies one visible, the other inuisible; but all appertaine to one bodie, and one Church. I confirme this out of S. Paul who in his Epi­stle the Ephesians saith, that God the Fa­ther hath made Christ, the heade ouer all the Church which is his bodie. Ephes. 1. v 22.23. Ch. 4. v. 13. In this Church the A­postle saith, Christ put Apostles, pastors &c. till wee all meete into the vnitie of faith, which is till the end of the world:Chap. 2.19. Ch. 1. v. 13. and in the same Church are the citizens of the Saincts: the do­mesticalls of God, Those which are signed with the holie Ghost of promise which is the pledge of our in­heritance: in fine the predestinate: and S. Paul himselfe, was in this Church. This one bodie therefore had these two attributs to wit, it was visible, for hauing in it intrinsecallie and for euer publike persons, Pastors, Doctors, it might thereby be seene and heard: and it had [Page 314] in it the predestinate, which you call inuisible men; whence it followes that visible and in­uisible in that sense leaue it still as it was, one bodie.

105. Fiftlie our greate Pastors fould is one, not two as your distinction makes it. He hath one fould: and that is visible. For the Church of God is visible as I haue manifestlie decla­red before, and to this fould his predestinate are all brought, out of what Nation, out of what part of the world soeuer. Other sheepe I haue that are not of this fold (a fould wherein the Apostles were,Iohn. 10.16. men visible to the whole world, and wherein their successors are, men allso visible) thē allso I must bringe, ād they shall heare my voice, and there shall be made one fould and one Pastor. Heere by the testimonie of Ie­sus Christ the fould, the Church is one: away then with your distinction; beleeue one, as wee doe, which is visible, in which the predesti­nate people are.

106. And indeede, where should one looke for our Sauiours Schollers, but in his Schoole? where should wee looke for Gods domesti­calls, but in his howse? where should wee looke for his members but in his body? where should wee looke for holie people, for prede­stinate, for Saincts but in the Church? And therefore hauing demonstrated before which [Page 315] is the Church, this labour might haue bene spared. For as I answeared of the Spirit; that you should not challenge him till you had prooued that yours was the Church (a taske vnpossible,) so now I may answeare of holie people, of predestinate, of Saints, that you do not callenge any till you haue proo­ued (which you will not doe as longe as God is God) that yours is the Church.

107. It is verily a ridiculous thing to see what Churches you frame in your imagi­nation: One, full of words, euer preaching, all mouth, but without Spirit, without hart, without sowle. The other, full of the Pro­testant Spirit, but silent, and ashamed of her owne doctrine, in so much that for a thou­sand yeeres together she was dombe: a church without a mouth. The mouth and hart you knowe, are both parts of one man: the hart is within, and is not seene but by the mouth; in the mouth it doth shewe it self in what forme it pleaseth to affect: The Church too hath hart and mouth, hart to beleeue, to loue God, and mouth to praise, inuoake and pro­fesse him. These make not two Churches, they are two parts of one. God hath promi­sed these two to one, and the same Church. his spirit is allwayes in her hart, and his words allwayes in her mouth. I will aske my Father [Page 316] and he will giue you an other Paraclete, Io 14 v. 15 16.17. that he may abide which you for euer, the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receaue, because it seeth him not nor knoweth him. But you knowe him, be­cause he shall abide with you, and shall be in you. Thus our Sauiour to his Apostles, publike ād visible persons, and in them to the visible Church.Isay. 59.21. Rom. 10. v. 9.10 My spirit that is in thee, and my words that I haue put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth &c for euer. If thou confesse with thy mouth our Lord Iesus, and in thy hart beleeue that God hath raised him vp from the deade thou shalt be saued, for with the hart wee beleeue vnto iustice, but with the mouth confession is made to Saluation. Gods Church therefore hath both hart and mouth, in her hart she hath Gods Spirit, in her mouth his word, and these are not two Churches, but one Church.

108. Neither doth predestination make it inuisible as childishly you imagine. The pre­destinatiō it selfe indeede is inuisible vnto vs, it is Gods purpose and decree, and therefore is in God, as mans purposes are in the mind of man: and those purposes euen in men are secret and hidden till the men reueale them: But the predestinated as I said before are as visible as other men. So was S. Peeter, S. Paul, and the rest of the Apostles, the Martyres of Iesus Christ were visible, otherwise, how [Page 317] could they haue bene tortured as they were? The Doctors were visible, S. Ierome and S. Augustine, were knowne farre and neere, ād to come neerer to our tyme S. Francis, S. Thomas of Aquin, S. Bonauenture, S. Charles Boromeus, were visible, yet predestinate: whereby it is most euident that predestina­tion doth not make men inuisible, they may be publike persons, and knowne to all the world, and predestinate allso; And so may the Church be both predestinate and visible too. And is so, though euery man in the Church be not predestinate, some are there more then number, as in a mans body there are some parts superfluous, which will not be resumed in the resurrection as I said in the former booke, and these parts are like the rest, they communicate with the rest, they beleeue as the rest, but they doe not perseuer as the rest. Now which those are that will perseuere fi­nallie, which will not, God hath reserued as a secret vnto himselfe. He hath not as yet made any secretarie coppie out of the booke of life. The sanctitie of some in all tymes he makes knowne for the example, and encouragmēt, and confirmation of others, by such signes as he pleaseth, such as you reade in the liues of Saincts, penned by saincts allso, by S. Atha­nasius, S. Ierome, S. Augustine, S. Gregorie of [Page 318] Nice, S. Gregorie the greate, S. Bede, S. Ber­nard, S. Bonauenture and others who in their workes haue related diuers wōderfull things of holie men, and this is a further argument of their visibilitie: But God (as I said) hath not yet permitted the booke of life to be coppied out, and diuulged.

Iohn. 4.23 1. Io. 2.27.109. You obiect first, that true worshippers adore in Spirit and truth, and vnction teacheth all. This is true. But those worshippers, those ānointed are in the Church, they are a part, ād the chiefest part of the visible communitie, whereof I haue spoken in the second booke, they are in the visible fold of Christ. Were the Apostles and the rest of their Religion the true Church or no? were they, was that Bo­die, that communitie, visible or inuisible? their sermons were not they heard? were not their writings seene? went not their sound ouer all the world? why, then they were vi­sible. As for the vnctiō it teacheth the Catho­lique Church, it teacheth men to giue assent to such things as the Apostles then did, and their Successors now doe propose. They may preach and be heard allso, but without vn­ction the people will not beleeue.1. Cor. 3. Paul plan­teth and Apollo watereth, but God giueth the in­crease. In the same Catholique Church are those adorers in Spirit, and in the middest of [Page 319] it the sanctification of God is foreuer. The Apostles did they adore in Spirit or no? if they did, whie may not a visible Church do so? if they did not, who will beleeue that you do?

110. Secondlie you obiect that there are none in the Church but predestinate. If you speake of the Church triumphant, you say true: if you speake of the militant Church, it is not so. for all those that for a tyme adhere vnto this bodie, and are parts of it, do not fi­nallie perseuere; some are multiplied aboue number, and beleeue a while, but reuolt and fall of before they die. The Church militant is the companie of beleeuers in communion with S. Peeter and his See. It is the companie of Catholiques. And Catholiques some are in charitie and in the grace of God, and are saued, some die in mortall sinne, some loose their faith at last.1. Tim 1. In the primitiue Church some made shipwracke of their faith as Hymeneus and Alexander, saith the Apostle. Some do be­leeue for a tyme said our B. Sauiour,Luk. 8.1 and in tyme of tēptation do reuolt. And the Spirit manifestlie saith that in the last tymes certaine shall depart from the faith, attending to the Spiritts of errour. 1. Tim. 4 Matth. 2 14. Many are called, but fewe chosen. There are some with wedding garments and some without: some wise virgins, some foolish: [Page 320] some corne, some chaffe: some vessells of ho­nour some of dishonour: some good some bad, some predestinate some reprobate in the Church. The predestinate will perseuer, the rest will not.

111. I come now to the second part of this Chapter, wherein I am to loosesome tyme in asking a question or two about your dombe-preaching Church, about the Saincts of your election, about those people which were in all tymes but neuer before Luther, and in all Nations before his tyme, but no wherein the world. And I demand first whether all the rest were like you or no? if they were, why then were they inuisible? You say you are predestinate, and yet you are visible (notwith­standing your predestination) and a member of that Church: whie then might not the other men be visible allso: euerie one of thē, and the whole visible?

112. I demaund secondlie whether you do knowe the rest of your Church, the rest of your predestinate breethren or whether you knowe none of that Church but your selfe onely: ād whether euery one in that Church knowe himselfe onelie, and no more? If you do not knowe any of them, what Societie cā you haue among you? what gouerment? what forme of a Church? If you do knowe any I [Page 361] desire to heare how? wee finde not your names in the Scripture, the booke of life is not printed with the Gospell:2. Tim. 2.19. Iohn. 10.14. wee reade there that our Lord knowes who be his, that our greate Pastor knowes his sheepe. That you can do it, that you can number all his sheepe, that you can point them out, wee reade not. I pray you, howe come you to knowe the secret? is it by exterior profession? that serues not, they may dissemble and (which is worse for you) none professed your religion for 900 yeeres togeather and therefore by profession you knowe none in all that tyme. Neither would an vnfained profession haue serued the turne, for euerie one that persuades himselfe that he beleeues is not constant in the faith, nor pre­destinate. What then be the certaine markes whereby you knowe your inuisible brethrē, that wee may knowe them too? or do you not indeed knowe them?Remember what hath ben said in the first booke. if you knowe them let vs heare the markes, the markes of a pre­destinated Protestant: and bringe vs one example any tyme for 900. yeeres before Lu­ther of such a man; an example out of que­stiō, a manifest example. If you do not knowe them, you cannot conferre with them in your difficulties, you cannot helpe them in their necessities, you cannot meete in Coun­cell as the Apostles and Pastors did in the [Page 322] primitiue Church; you cannot haue the face nor the gouerment of a Church.

133. I must examine further by your leaue. In your Catholique Church of predestinate, is there order, or confusion? are there Pastors, ād Doctors and Bysshops, or no Bysshops, no Pastors, no Doctors? is there a Hierarchie, or not? are the preachers and Superintendents seene and heard? or how are the things dōne? The reason of my demand or doubt is, be­cause this Catholique Church of yours is in­uisible and therefore it seemes that no man can see the Preacher, otherwise many in the companie might see him, if not all, and so he were visible. He allso might see them he prea­ched vnto, and so they were visible too, and consequentlie the whole companie and the whole Church were visible not inuisible.

114. It might seeme by your talke that this holie Congregation of yours hath greate eares and no eies: for if they had eies, they might then see the Ministers that instructe them, they might see their Superintendents, Or if they can heare and not see these Mini­sters, their eares reach a greate deale further then their eies. But this will not content me neither if yo graunt it: for that which may be heard makes a noise, and by the noise disco­uers it selfe, if therefore your predestinated [Page 323] Preachers haue made a noise in the world, the Christians or Papists liuing with them should haue heard it, though they could not see those inuisible men; and this at least would be found on record, as other wonders are; to wit, That in all Christian countries there was a Protestant noise, ād sermons euerie where, in euerie Nation, but no preacher seene. this would haue bene found in the Chronicles of all countries; and some would haue bene so curiouse as to haue noted the points of the Sermons and set downe the doctrine. But it hath beene so farre from this, that for a thou­sand yeares together there was a deepe silēce in the world, and no Protestant sermon he­ard; yea Luther did verie earnestlie listen after such a sermon,Luth. de Missa pr [...]uata ton 7. but his learned eares could heare none saue onelie from the diuell one, and that indeed he hath registred in his writings.

115. Hauing entred into the consideration of your inuisible Church, I will be bould to looke about me. where are your Superinten­dents? how do they exercise their office with­out being seene? Your Ministers of this Church who creates them and how? is euerie one a minister, or some sheepe and some pa­stors? how do you knowe the pastors from the sheepe? the ministers from other men? are [Page 324] all Apostles? 1. Cor. 12. v. 28.29. are all prophets? are all Doctors? are all miracles? haue all the grace of cures? do all speake with tōgues? do all interprete? who do? who doe not? how may one knowe? how do you knowe?v. 27. S. Paul saith, some verily God hath set in the Church, first Apostles, secondlie Prophets, thirdlie Doctors, next miracles, then the graces of doing cures, helpes, gouerments, kinds of tongues. Are these things in the inuisible Church? and if they be not there, how is it the Catholique Church? are there tongues in that deepe si­lence? is there gouerment in that confusion? are there helpes and cures, where no man seeth anothers wants and miseries? miracles and none wonder? Doctors and no Schollers? Prophets, and Apostles and no preaching of the word? Where are the pulpits? where are your communion tables? how are the colle­ctiōs made? do you meete onelie in the night, or in the daie, or not at all? what calles you together if you meete? a signe? that may be seene. a sound? that might be heard, and you might be found, which is against the nature of a Church inuisible. Your assemblies for a thousand yeares together how were they made, and where? or did none preach all that tyme? did no Bisshops gouerne? did all be­leeue, and so long, and so ordinarily without preachers? how could that be? how could your [Page 325] people inuocate in whom they beleeued not? how could they beleeue whom they heard not? and how could they heare without a preacher? Answere for your Church, and teach S. Paul something, which he knewe not. If you admit gouermēt ād instruction, and order in that Church, you grant it to be visible, for these things are visi­ble. If you denie them you cannot shewe how those your imagined predecessors had any faith, and were a Church militant. So that you puzzle your owne selfe in this bu­sines, and are ouer come without an ad­uersarie.

116. I note it therfore for a particular weake­nes in your braine that determining to feine a Church of predecessors, you had not so much wit as to inuent a thinge which did not infold a contradiction in it selfe, as this doth; for, being inuisible it hath no preachers (for preachers are visible things) now where there are no preachers there is no faith, where there is no faith, there is no Church, the Church being a Congregation or Societie of faithfull people, therefore in making a Church inuisible, you make the same thinge to be a Church and no Church. Againe, there are no Saincts where there is no sanctitie, there is no sanctitie, where there is no faith, no faith where there is no preaching, no preaching [Page 326] where the is no mission, Rom. 10.15 no mission where there is no gouerment; no gouerment where there are no gouerners. And in an inuisible cō ­panie there are no gouerners; therefore frō the first to the last there are in it no Saincts. Not­withstanding it hath nothing else you say but Saincts. So that it hath people in it; it is a So­cietie of Saincts (if wee beleeue you,) and yet hath not a Sainct in it: which is another con­tradiction.

117. Moreouer this Church of yours hath preached continuallie Protestantisme in all Nations: because in all Nations you haue had Saincts, if your imagination be admitted: and sanctitie is grounded in faith,He that [...]hall be as­hamed of [...]me and of my words, him the sonne of man shall be asha­med of, When he [...]hall come [...]n his Ma­ [...]esty. Luke 9. [...]6. faith gotten by hearing, as I said before: yet all this tyme she hath not spoken, but was ashamed of her owne faith: Now, how these two hange to­gether do you iudge. If you thinke I doe you wronge in accusing your Church of silence, take in hand againe the Argument of the first booke; produce euidence of anie one man, yours or ours, frind or foe, Christiā, Turke or Athiest that euer heard a Protestant speake in any place of all the world (a rome wide ynough) in any part of fifteene hundred yeeres before Luther (a tyme longe inough) or euer since the begining of the world if you would haue a longer space, and though [Page 327] this will not serue for a Church of all Natiōs, yet will it shewe that you know something more then all your fellowes: and that you haue profited a little since you wrotte last. As for the credibilitie of your deuice; they will beleeue yet another Gospell on your bare word, against all the euidence in the world, that beleeue this conceipt of yours: and euerie yonge Logician that hath heard his master talke of Chimeraes, can make as good, and ground them as solidlie as you doe. for euerie child knoweth that the Church militant is a Societie of men seruing God; which men are not meere Spirits but things visible, the So­cietie of thē allso is a thing visible▪ teaching, baptizing, ruling, conuerting Nations, con­futing Heresies are visible acts,In nullum nomē Re­ligionis seu verum seu falsum, co­agulari ho­mines pos­sunt, nisi a­liquo sig­naculorum vel Sacra­mentorum visibilium consortio colligētur. S. Aug. li. 19. cont. Faust. c. 11. and acts of the Church of God. Man oweth vnto God visible acts of worshippe and not inuisible only; praise, sacrifice, Sacraments, are visible things: the word of God is visible, yea God comming to raise this Church did exhibite himself heere visible, God himself was seene with mens eies, as I told you in the second booke, and if you be a Christian you beleeue it. The Church which you speake of, being inuisible, can be no Societie and therefore no Church. And as it is no Church but a Chi­mericall non ens, so the acts of it propor­tionablie [Page 328] be negatiue; it hath conuerted no Nations, it hath confuted no Heresies, it hath brought vp no Saincts. Before Luther it was in no place, it administred no Sacraments, it made no Sermons. It had no conscience, no mouth, no face.

118. Vnworthie therefore is this fiction of yours to be compared to the Church of God, these imaginarie Saints of yours to the Saints of Allmightie God: these dombe preachers to the Apostles of Iesus Christ, and their Suc­cessors: this vnsociable societie not daring to appeare or whisper a fore men for many hū ­dred yeeres, to that Church which hath had allwayes Gods Spirit in her hart, and Gods word in her mouth: which hath conuerted Nations; condemned Heresies, assembled Councelles; maintained order; administred Sacraments; and bred Saincts. To the Church described in the Scripture. To the visible, To the Catholique Church.

119. It may be that your selfe by this tyme are wearie of your owne inuention, to the end therefore I may giue you scope to interprete your selfe better then you haue done hetherto, I will aske a question or two more, and make and end. Either it is sufficient to saluation, to followe the instruction of the visible Church or no? if it be not sufficient [Page 329] then God hath not prouided sufficient me­anes for instruction, for without a preacher men cannot beleeue as I haue tould you oft from S. Paul. If it be sufficient, then leaue vs to followe this instruction, to be directed by this Church: wee haue that wee looke for. I haue prooued heretofore that the Church hath Gods words euer in her mouth and that she deliuereth true doctrine without er­rour fundamentall or other, I demaund now whether the predestinate do beleeue this doctrine, this religiō, thus perpetuallie taught, or not? if they doe not, they be not of the true Religion, they be not the sheepe of Christ, for his sheepe doe heare his voice: Io. 10. they may be your predecessors, they are not ours: they are Saincts of your making, but not Gods elect. If they doe, then this visible Church ād Gods predestinate are all of one Religiō, one faith, one body mysticall: they all make one Church. Speake plainlie man, the Religion which God maketh the Church to professe allwaies, is it true or false? if false, how is it Gods instruction? You haue profited sure ex­ceedinglie by your Spirit, if now you taxe God with false doctrine: if it be true, wee may followe it, wee must followe it. The predesti­nated people are they of this Religion thus professed, or are they of an other? if of an [Page 330] other,Gal. 1. [...]. Cor. 16. I haue nothing to doe with them, ana­thema, anathema: if they be of this Religion, all is well.

120. To conclud, that the Church of God is one and visible, and that the predestinate are in it, hath bene the sense and faith of all the Ca­tholique world who haue all hoped to be sa­ued in this Church, in the visible Church of God: it hath bene the faith of all the auncient Fathers and Doctors of the Church, who acknowledged themselues children of it, and were directed by it: it hath bene the faith of the Saincts and predestinate themselues, who did here beleeue as wee doe, and God hath by miracles, and other wayes manifested their sanctitie vnto the world. And finallie it is the sense of the Spirit of the Catholique Church which cannot erre in such a point, as I haue prooued larglie, and you in your grounds should confesse, because the thing is funda­mentall, and therefore it is a signe of extra­ordinarie stupiditie or malice, or both, to stag­ger in it.

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER. Two other arguments are answered.

121. IF any of your arguments should escape vntouched you would bragge of their streingth, and therefore I am glad I haue o­uertaken other two before they gette out of my memorie. The first is;Whittak. Rainolds. That which may happē to any one, may happē to all or to eue­rie one; But to erre may happē to any Church (adde, for ought you know) for thus it did happē to the Churches of Thiatira, Corinth, &c. therefore it may happē to euery one or to all, ād so all at ōce may erre. Thus you. I haue some cause to thinke you haue a wide mouth, suppose you cā thrust ā egge into it; A clowne there might dispute in your forme ād moode thus. That which may happē to any one of the egges in your parish may happen to all or to euerie one; but to be thrust into your mouth at once, may happen to any one of those egges therefore it may happen to them all, and then your mouth will be stopt. Now if one mouth­full be not inough for your dinner, you may fall next to the meate and eate it all euery bit, for that which may happen to any bit may happē to euery bit the clowne your Scholler [Page 332] would say; and ofterwards at the same meale you might drinke all the drinke, euery cup­full, euery drop.

122. Suppose all the men in England should cast the dice for a thousand pound, with these conditiōs that the first which threwe twelue with two dice should haue it, and if none threwe twelue the monie, should be yours. To see faire play ād to doe you all the fauour wee can; wee will suppose the dice to be iust ād no tricke vsed at all. The first may throwe ames ace: I suppose the least for your good: but it is fiue to one he will not. Yet admitt he doth. It is fiue to one the second doth not: yet admitt his cast be ames ace too: for what chāce might happen to the other might hap­pen to him. Thus I will run on till I come to twentie, and surelie it is much that twentie, one after another should haue the same cast and the dice exactlie iust. It is not probable that it would hould on so to a hundred: yet what might happen to any one, might happen say you to euery one: It is incredible it should goe on in the same chāce to a thou­sand: yet in your logicke this guggion must be swallowed after his fellowes. But that it should run thorough them all it is not possi­ble, for then fortune would be constant and cōtingencie would prooue to be a neeessity, which no man will say, who knowes what [Page 333] he saith: yet this must downe your throate too, for what may happen to any one may happen to euerie one, that so in the end you may get to your selfe the thousand pound. The like might happen if all the men that are in the world should cast the dice and should haue done so euer since dice were first inuented: because what might happen to any one might as you say happen to euery one. And when each had throwne he might die before you and cō ­sequentlie all might doe so in your principles so you should be the onelie man a liue ād haue all their money too. And thus much to let you see the weake forme of your argu­mēt which nothwithstādīg is one of the maine foundatiōs where on your mē do build their doctrine of the fallibility of Gods Church.

123. Now to the matter of the argument I answeare, that allmighiie God is infinite, and therfore none can hinder his designe or make frustrate his intention. Wherfore since he hath decreed to keepe allwayes to the worlds end a Church on earth infallible in doctrine as I haue declared by the testimony of holy Scripture, his prouidence will effect it, and make it perseuere in what persons and what places he please. Wee haue no reuelation thath the true faith shall perseuere allwayes in France, or in England for example, but in [Page 334] the world it shall allwayes bee, [...]. 2. c. 1. for so much is euident by the Scripture. Neither doth it followe: God permittes some tymes one man to fall into Apostasie, some tymes another, therfore he will at once permitte all: he per­mittes diuers to die before you, ād (for ought you knowe) he may permitte any one man whom soeuer you can name or thinke of, yea any one in all the world: yet hence it is not cō ­sequēte that it stands with his generall proui­dence to permitt euery one to die before you that so you may be last, the onelie man a liue. I answeare therfore that As by vertue of Gods generall prouidence in as much as he is au­thor of nature there be still in the world men, though some at all tymes dropp away: so by vertue of Gods prouidence as he is author of the supernaturall order among men, there be euer Catholiques in the world and so will be still as long as the world stands, though some men yea some Nations and some perti­cular Churches do fall of.

124 The next which is allso the last I am to speake of here, lookes bigge ō all ād thinkes to make an ēd of our cause with one blowe. The scope of it is to proue that all may erre, and therfore that wee are not to be heard though neuer so many Councells and auncient fa­thers and worlds of people doe stand for vs, [Page 333] and comes on in this manner.The whol [...] Church militant consisting of mē Wh [...] are lyers, may erre alltogethe [...] as euery part thero [...] Fulk ans [...] to Count Cat. p. 89. All Christians that are or euer were in the world are men, therfore it might happen that all haue erred though they were assēbled together neuer so orderlie, because euery man is a lier. If this ar­gumēt did prooue any thing, it would prooue that all Councells, all Apostles, all Euange­lists, all prophets hether to may (for any thing you know) haue bene in errour: for all these were men and euery man is a lier. This is the vp shott of your disputation, this is the hauen you haue all this while bene sailing vnto: this (though first but a shifte wherunto you were driuen by the strength of authoritie brought against you) is now your doctrine and a Con­clusion in your bookes. Our answeare is easie that man of himselfe might erre, but by di­uine assistance, might be so guided that he erred not: and no man can denie this, vnles he denie that God is omnipotent or omniscious which if he doe, the light of nature will con­demne him. Thus generall Councells are as­sisted, thus were the Euangelists allso, and thus the Prophetts, though nor after the same manner all. And the promise of the Assistance did more concerne the Pastors then the peo­ple: Oecumenicall Councells, then each Bis­shop single: the whole colledge of the A­postles more then one. Though each Apostle [Page 336] being to teach the whole Church in the na­ture of an Apostle had this assistance too: and our Sauiour praying for the sanctification of his elected in truth or for their perseuerance, included the meanes allso of this perseuerāce of his elect in the truth, which is the perpetui­tie of his assistance vnto those in whome is the tea­ching authoritie respectiuelie to the whole, in which those elected are though to pastors in particular vnknowne.

125. But to looke now a little vppon you who are so resolute in your ignorance, as to thinke that all may haue mystaken the truth which you haue foūd: and haue bene forsakē by the Spiritte who singularlie fauours you, I demaund of you the Spirittes darling and worlds fresh Oracle, First how one may knowe that you are exempted frō the world of men which may erre alltogether? or what other species or kind you and your witte be­longe vnto, that men should leaue the whole world though consenting, and take your au­thoritie against them all. the same Question would I aske of your fellowe Rainolds, ād of Whittaker were they liuing: but hauing vn­dertaken their cause, the resolution belongs to you in their absēce. Secondlie I desire a sight of your particular letters patents from Iesus Christ, wherein the teaching Spiritte is thus singularlie bequeathed and addicted vnto [Page 337] you, or to either of the forenamed in parti­cular, or Iohn white if you had rather: togea­ther with a clause, that though he breake his promise made vnto the Church, and hath not (as he said he would) sente the allteaching Spiritte to the Apostles, to their Successors, or to the Church Catholique; yet that, that other promise, no where extant for ought wee knowe, made particularlie vnto you his deerest, he will not breake: and how you are sure he will stand to this clause. Thirdlie I de­maūd why the Catholiques of Englād be there commaunded and vrged allso to conforme their conscience to the doctrine of your Church, and to rest in her iudgment and in the parlamentarie decrees for points of Reli­gion, though worlds of men as learned euery waie (I speake least) as your selues, doe and haue maintained the contrarie to their dying daie, as conformable to the Scripture, to reasō ād to the practise of their forefathers time out of mind. I demaund (I saie) why you proceede with thē in this manner, before you giue eui­dēce that you are not in errour: since you like­wise are mē, and all mē may erre as you tell vs. Euidence I say greater thē any these haue on their side. I demaund further of your wis­dome, how you doe know and are certaine that the Euāgelists, Apostles, ād Prophetts did [Page 336] write those bookes, which you take for di­uine Scripture, and how you doe know your selfe, ād cā prooue to me there is no errour or mistaking in the matter if all mē may haue er­red. And I demaund further how you doe knowe that he which did write the first Gos­pell (suppose he were S. Matthewe) did not erre, since he was a man, and all men you saie may erre. I demaund Fiftlie howe men shall come to be sure of the sense of a peece of Scripture, and to haue the controuersies in religion determined; Must he come to you? why rather then to the Church which was before you were borne, and had the pro­mise of the Spiritte. If to the Spiritte? why rather to that in you, them to that in the Church? If to others? why must wee goe to old Heretiques, to Iewes, to Pagans, to Athiests, rather then to the Church? why should any knowe better then she? or a­bounde more with the Spiritte, then she doth? I demaund next what an Heretique is and why he which opposeth himselfe in matters of faith to generall Councells, to the Spiritte of the Catholique Church, and to Gods word proposed by this Church, and expounded by this Spiritt is not one? And Seuenthlie I demaund whether this sinne be not against the holie Ghost? and whether he who dieth in it shall be saued, and admitted [Page 337] into the Church triumphant who thus op­posed the militant, and died a vowed ene­my to her, and to her doctrine, and her Spiritte?

126. Awake man for shame awake, and looke aboute; consider what you doe: here is a faire waie before you, and you like a bedlome runne out of it, ouer shoes, ouer bootes, ouer head and eares: imagining notwithstanding that you walke aboue heauen, and that eue­rie steppe is on a starre. The Church, the Councells, the Fathers, Apostles, Euangelists, all are in errour, all vnder your feete, whilst your chariot is rowld vniformelie aboue the Sunne, and heauen takes newe lawes from your allmightie witte. I will ascend into heauen, Isay. 14. v. 13.14. aboue the starres of God I will exalt my throne, I will sit in the mount of the Testament, in the sides of the North. I will ascend aboue the height of the clowdes. I will be like the highest. So he that wēt before you: if you prick on apace you will o­uertake him, for he is yet at his Inne; ād there to stay an eternall night. That past, you may iogge on together. I loue your person, I wish your saluatiō, but hate your heresie, and make no greate account of that which you most a­dore, your learnīg. In the Schoole of errour be manie good witts. There the Manichees, and Ariās, ād Caluinists haue their order, if there [Page 340] be any order where no man will be second. Aristotles Logicke, and Tullies Rhetori­cke, could not make of superstition true Re­ligion. I am not in loue with Hell, though in it be greate Schollers. the Foulest there was once the Fairest amōge creatures, for endow­ments or nature and strength of vnderstan­ding. I knowe that such as did applaud his cō ­ceipt were partners in his fall. I knowe too, that all the knowledge of all Pagans, of all Heretiques, of all aduersaries put together doth not equall the knowledge of the Church. It is the Schoole of Iesus Christ who taught (a thing worthie of eternall admira­tion) a poore fisherman and on the suddaine too, to speake all tongues, I speake it to the confusion of such aduersaries of our Sauiour as glory in their skill in others language: and do repeate againe to the Rhetoricians, he suddainlie made the same man so good an Oratour that he conuerted vnto his Masters doctrine in the face of his aduersaries,Act. 2: three thousand with one Sermon. he so instructed his disciples in deuinitie, that they conuinced Greece, the worlds Academie for wit and learning: persuaded Rome in the flourishing tyme of her power though she imploied all her force to frustrate their proceeding: and in fine (to relate many wonders in a word) con­uerted [Page 341] all the world, to beleeue a man God, to beleeue a most obscure and witt-transcen­ding Creede. In this Schoole wee doe learne, here wee are assured of the truth. The manife­station of the Spirit is giuen here. To one the word of wisdome. 1. Cor. 12. v. 8.9.10. To another the word of know­ledge according to the same Spirit. To another faith in the same Spirit. To another the grace of doing cures in one Spirit. To another the working of mi­racles. To another prophecie. To another discer­ning of Spiritts. To another kinds of tongues. To another interpretations of languages. Can you giue these things? can you teach this Schoole in this sort as the Spirit doth? or if you cannot, as without infinite blasphemie you may not presume you can, why do you endeuour to thrust out the holie Ghost, and intrude your selfe into the place? whie do you thus oppose the diuine ordinance, and openlie wronge the sonne of God? Auant Heretiques,Iude v. 2. clouds without water, borne about with winde, raging waues of the Sea, foming out your owne confusions, enemies to the Church, to the Scripture and to God, auant: Wee need not your instru­ction, wee haue better Masters. Without you the Church was planted, the world conuerted, the truth maintained; without you the Schooles are full of Schollers, the world of Martyrs, heauen of Saincts. without you [Page 340] the Church hath stoode, and doth stand, and so will do, still.

THE FIRST CHAPTER. Of the Primacie.

1. YOVR generall arguments being dispatched in the former booke, I shall finde little danger or diffi­cultie in the encounter of the rest of the disordered route, and may iustlie in your owne principles contemne them all as I said before in the like occasion and must re­peate it oft. For, whence is their strength? from witte or from authoritie? If from witt, you must not thinke amisse of me, if I preferre the witt and iudgment of many worlds of lear­ned mē, before yours which hath declared it selfe vnreasonable hetherto: especiallie since all men be lyars, to turne the point of your owne weapon vppon your selfe, and you no God nor Angell but a man. If your argumēts [Page 344] haue their streingth from authoritie; either this authoritie is of men, and this you haue refused as vncertaine because all mē are lyars. and you haue laboured not onelie to disgrace the Church of later tymes, and the Fathers in their age, but allso to take the Apostles tri­ping, and therefore their authoritie moues not you. Or this authoritie is of God in holie Scripture; where he deliuers, according to your distinction, two sorts of points, the one is of fundamentall points, and in these you con­fesse, that the Church neither doth nor can erre: and therfore the ensuing controuersie is not about them, as for example, the Incarna­tion, the passion, and the rest which you call fundamentall. The other sort of points or textes in the Bible are as you call them not-fundamentall; and these you do not hold for certaine; which, howsoeuer you dissemble the matter, is cleere, for in your principles there are no meanes from God or man to knowe certainlie that they are indeede parts of Gods word, or to knowe which is their true meaning. Not the witte of man alone, for that may erre especiallie in such an obscure point, as whether this text, this verse, be Gods word and not the word of a man: Not the Spirit, for that doth assist onelie to fundamentalls you [Page 343] saie, and these you say are not of them. you must answer this heere, before you goe further: and knowe that of the certainty of con­sequences it is the same. Moreouer, since diuine assistance to the vnderstanding of the Scrip­ture, depends vppon Gods promise; and since this promise is made vnto the Church, to the Apostles and their successors: you are first to prooue that you are the Church, before any man is to beleeue you haue the assistance ād interprete right: for, arguments out of Scrip­ture prooue nothing, if they misse the sense of God, and be grounded in a wronge sense. For these, and the like reasons I might haue forborne to make further answeare to your exceptions. Notwithstanding, to giue you content I will descende vnto the particular consideration of the chiefest.

2. First therefore, to make your waie into the Church, there to spoile and aulter what you list, you set vppon the Pastor. It is defi­ned in the Councell of Florence that the Bis­shop of Rome is successor to sainct Peeter, and that he hath receaued in him, sainct Peeter, from our Sauiour, power to feede and to gouerne the whole Church. This is one of the things which you cannot abide; a Superiour you thinke is a heauie burden, ād therefore you would shake him of. The A­postles, say you, were according to Cyprian [Page 344] equall in honour and dignitie. Cypr. de vnit. Eccl. Ieron adu. Iou. Leo ep. 84. The strength of the Church was equallie established on them all in the opinion of Hierom, and with Leo, they had a likenes in honour. This is the first onset, wherein you shewe neither skill nor iudgment. You had but latelie discharged all the Fathers for vnable men, and therefore it was an vnadui­sed part in you now to summō them to fight vnder your colours: for you may iustlie feare that in tyme of tryall they will declare them­selues to be ō our side who haue euer reuerē ­ced and defended thē, ād not on yours where they and the Church authoritie, and the Spi­rit of Gods Church, are dis-esteemed and contemned.

3. But I answeare, that before S. Peeter was made Pastor, the Apostles were all e­quall: after he was made Pastor, they were not equall. S. Peeter was then chiefe ād Superior. The rest of the Apostles had power giuen them to preach the Gospell, to forgiue sinnes, to binde ād loose, to doe miracles: but onelie S. Peeter had the prerogatiue of Pastor, as the Scripture doth euidentlie declare. And heere­by he was otherwise compared vnto the flocke then any of the rest, [...]. c. 6. n. 52 with whom he had all the forenamed, but excelled in this, that they being Legates or Apostles onely, in regard of their generall iurisdiction; he was [Page 345] Pastor of the Church. This is the doctrine of those Fathers which you haue cited, as you may see in their books; and to saue you the la­bour of looking further, I will shewe it in the very same places you alleage. The Church (saith S. Ierom) is founded on Peeter, S. Ieron. adu. Iouin. [...]. 1. though in another place it be donne vpon them all, and all receiue the keyes of heauen, and the strenght of the Church be equallie establisshed vppon all. These things were equallie donne before S. Peeter was made Pastor, they were all equallie made Apostles, and foundations, and had equallie the keyes: but afterwards, of these Apostles thus equall, one was created Pastor, the rest remaining as they were; who remained therefore vnequall to this one, which was Peeter,10. 21. as you know by the Gospell of S. Iohn. and in regard hereof S. Hierome doth adde immediately to the words but now cited, yet (saith he) for this, one of the twelue is chosen, that a HEADE being consti­tuted the occasion of schisme might be taken away. Capite cōstituto. So now, they are vnequall: because one is made heade. S. Cyprian doth teach the same in the place you cite, Although (saith he) after his resurrection, he (our Sauiour) giues equall power; saying, as my father sent me, so do send you, S. Cyp. de vnit. eccl. take the holy Ghost &c. (where the power of re­mitting sinnes is equallie bestowed on all) yet that he might declare vnitie, he by his authoritie [Page 346] disposed the ORIGEN of the same Vnitie, BE­GINING FROM ONE. ^* Heere S. Cyprian doth shew what course Our blessed Sauiour tooke, to keepe manifest, vnitie in his Church, and among the Apostles themselues. He, our Sauiour, disposed, being must wise, an Origen, Roote, or cause of Vnitie, which Vnitie he would haue in his Church and amongst all the Parts of it. This Origē or Roote, was not a multitude equally gouerning the Church, but it was ONE, that is Peeter, whom our Sauiour made Pastor, of his Church, and vppō whō he built it, as S. Cyp. noted a little before and therefore he saith he disposed the Origē of this Vnitie begining frō ONE. So that wee haue in this very place, the Primacie of S. Peeter, in that he is the Roote and Origen of Vnitie in the whole Body, wherein the Apostles were; and allso the reason of the Institution of this Primacie, or Origen in One. In another place he doth specifie it more particularly saying that, The Origen of Ecclesiasticall Vnitie is the [Page 347] CHAIRE, that is the Pastorall Authoritie,Nauigare audent & ad Petri Cathedrā atque ec­clesiam Principalē vnde vni­tas sacer­dotalis ex­orta est. li. 1. ep. 3. Vna Ec­clesia à Christo Domino nostro su­per petram origine v­nitates & ratione fundata l. 1. ep. 12. of Peeter. And now I hope you wil beleeue it is his mind, heering it out of his owne mouth. Againe he saith that the Church is founded on a rocke in the Origē of Vnitie. And that the Church is founded on Peeter. which place S. Augustine doth allso alleage in his booke against the Donatists and in the same place (which I must note heereby the way) he atributeth expreslie the Primacie to Peeter. Lastlie S. Cyprian saith the See of Rome is the Mother or Matrice and Roote of the Catholique Church. Now if S. Peeter be the foundation or Rocke of the Catholique Church, and the Origen of Ec­clesiasticall Vnitie wee may conclude that he is, as S. Ierom said, the Heade.

S. Leo doth teach very well, that their ele­ction was equall. they had many things, and among the rest Apostolicall dignitie equallie bestowed on them: but afterwards one was particularly made Pastor of the Church, the Roote of Priestlie Vnitie, and Superior to the ^* [Page 348] rest;Vni tamen datum est vt caeteris praeemine­ret. S. Leo. ep. 84. S. Leo serm. 3. de Anniuers. Ass die. qui prae­ponatur. which donne they were not in ALL re­spects, equall. His words are, Among the most blessed Apostles in similitude of honour was a cer­taine DISTINCTION OF POWER, and whereas the Election of all was equall, to one was granted that he should be EMINENT A­BOVE the rest. Againe. Out of all the world, saith he, Peeter alone is chosen, who is constituted ouer the vocation of all Nations, and ouer ALL THE APOSTLES, and ouer all the Fathers of the Church, that, al though among Gods people there be many Priests and many Pastors, yet Peeter PROPERLIE GOVERNE THEM ALL, whom principally Christ doth also gouerne. Ep. 89. Apostolorū summo. And he saith further of the Pastorall office that, Our lord would haue the Sacrament of this function so to appertaine to the office of all the Apostles, that he placed it principallie in blessed Peeter the chiefest of all the Apostles: that from him as from a cer­taine HEADE he might diffuse his guiftes into the whole Bodie.

4. You Obiect that Leo could not prooue by Scripture that he said. But I demaund then, why do you alleage his authoritie if you will not stand to it your self? I demand secondly which of all the Fathers after him did note this doctrine in him, an erroneous or not cur­rant? He was a greate Scholler, and a Sainct, and in the communion of all the Christian [Page 349] world in his tyme. Yet to giue you further content, I will put downe the Scripture whereon the doctrine of S. Leo, S. Hierō, and the rest, is grounded. There be two chiefe places, the first is in the 16. of S. Matth. And Ie­sus answearing said, blessed art thou Simon Bar Io­na &c. and I say to thee, thou art Peeter, and VP­PON THIS ROCKE will I build MY Church. or thus I, say to thee, Simon, thou art Cephas, and, vppon this Cephas, which thou art, I will build, My Church. Heere the demonstratiue, this, doth point at the thing whereuppon the Church is built, vppon this Cephas will I build my Church. and Simon is this thing, Thou, Si­mon art Cephas, and vppon this I build. This sense you cannot EXCLVDE without con­tradicting the words of Iesus Christ. Now therefore, If you aske the Scripture, who is ^* [Page 150] the thing, in this place, vppon which the Church is built, it doth answere, that it is PEETER, here called CEPHAS. Moreouer, if you aske the Fathers, S. Leo, S. Hierom, S. Aug. S. Cyprian, S. Epiphanius, S. Chrysostō, S. Gregorie; they answere, it is PEETER. If [Page 351] you thinke I interpret them amisse,See the 1. Book. c. 6. n. 52. As if you should say this, points at Christ, or any other thing Without inuoluing Peeter. aske your Fellowes, and they will tell you, the Fathers did thinke so. And, the exclusion of this sense, is open violence to the Text; and makes it vncoherent.

Hence I may deduce two things, heere: The first, The Church of Christ was built vppō Peeter: for our Sauiour was as good as his word, and he said he would doe it. The second: The rest of the Apostles were built vppon Peeter: For, if they were the Church of Iesus Christ, they were built vppon him, because our Sa­uiours Church, which was but one in all, was built on him; Or, if they were in the Church of Iesus Christ, as partes in the whole, If the Whole be built vppō a founda­tion, each part in that whole is built thereon. this Church this whole being built on Peeter, on this rocke will I build my Church, they, being contained therein, that is, being parts of the whole thing built on Peeter, were allso built on Peeter. And so Peeter, was their Foundation, and their Heade, subordinate vnto Christ, the chiefe Heade and maine Foundation of them all. You cannot auoide this discourse; because the A­postles were not Infidelles or Heretiques, ād therefore, either they were the Church, or, they were in the Church.

The second place is that in the Gospell of sainct Iohn. Peeter, Feede my sheepe, by which words, sainct Peeter peculiarlie, is made Pa­stor [Page 352] of the sheepe of Christ.Vide S. Bern. l. 2. de cons. ad Eug. pap. Hence I argue thus. The rest of the Apostles were our Sa­uiours sheepe, therefore sainct Peeter was their Pastor; for, our Sauiour made him Pastor of his sheepe. If you say, they were not our Sauiours sheepe, then they were not his Dis­ciples; he was not their Pastor; he redeemed them not; for he gaue his life for his sheepe. If they were our Sauiours sheepe, they were also commended to sainct Peeter,10. 10. for our Sa­uiour made him Pastor of HIS sheepe, without excepting any.By this you may vnderstād a place of S. Augusti­ne obie­cted some tymes. Si hoc Pe­tro tantū &c. tract. 50. in Ioā. Cuius Ec­cesiae Pe­trus Apo­stolus propter Apostola­tus sui pri­matum gerebat fi­gurata ge­neralitate personam Idem Aug. in Io. tr.

6. Your exception heere is that, what was spoken to Peeter, was spoken to all, and that Peeter did represēt the Church whē he tooke Authoritie from Iesus Christ. Answeare. If you meane, it was in proportion, and secondarilie spoken to all the rest, and not onelie to the Apostles, but allso to all other lawfull Pastors in the world, I graunt it: but this will not make thē all equall. If you meane that it was equallie and immediatelie said to all your glosse is false, and contrarie to the text. He said to him, Peeter, feede my sheepe. Peeter was nor all the Apostles. As for the represen­tation, I answeare that S. Peeter tooke the office at the hāds of Iesus Christ for himselfe to vse, and for his successors, ād for all the Pa­stors of the Church, as farre at it should be couenient to make them partakers of this [Page 353] power and sollicitude,vlt. prop­ter prima­tum quem in discipu­lis habuit. id. in psal. 108. for the common good of the whole Church: and he in this did re­present them all according as I haue declared because all his successors, and all inferior Pa­stors to the worlds end, could not in their owne persons be there to receaue this power: and the Church her selfe was no otherwise to take the power I speake of, but by the hāds of her Pastor: because the cōmunitie of Chri­stians could not exercise that office of gouer­ning or being Pastor, in regard this communi­tie was the flocke.

8. By that which I haue said here in this Chapter you finde excluded your fellowes tale of Phocas first instituting the office of a generall Pastor in the Church. For if the scrip­ture may be beleeued,Io. 21. cited in Coccius and Gual­terius. our Sauiour did insti­tute this office or Authoritie. And thus much was acknowledged by the Fathers of the primitiue Church, ād exercised by the Popes, Successors to saint Peeter, before Phocas euer appeared in this world. It is true that Empe­rours might second what our Sauiour had ordained before: to the end, the Imperiall de­cree thus waiting on the diuine institutiō, mē respecting the temporall power, might stand in feare to transgresse, who would otherwise preuaricate notwithstanding the divine insti­tution so, many forbeare stealing for feare of [Page 354] temporall lawes, whom Gods eternall lawe would not moue to forbeare. In this kinde Phocas decreed that the Pope should be ac­compted heade, though the title were due to him by vertue of a higher Institutiō: ād he sti­led heade of Bishops before this, as you may finde in the fourth generall^a Councell. Nei­ther doth the title of Oecumenicall or Vni­uersall Bisshop, in the sēse wee take it any way derogate vnto the rest their titles of Bisshops; as Philosophers giuing the title of vniuersall cause to a cause supereminent as to the sūne, or to God. hereby take not away the name of cause from particular in this lower world, as from horses, fire, men. But yet, if you take vni­uersall, in an other sense, not for that which is eminent ouer many particulars, but, for that which so hath all within it selfe, that none answearing to the name is without it, as^b saint Gregorie did vnderstand it, so neither is the [Page 355] Sunne an vniuersall cause, nor the Pope vni­uersall Bisshop, because there are more causes besides the sunne, and more Bisshops besides the Pope.

THE SECOND CHAPTER. The Pope aboue other Bishops.

I haue donne with the comparison of sainct Peeter to the rest of the Apostles, it fol­lowes now that I consider what comparison his successor, the Pope, hath vnto the Patriar­kes and other Bishops. Your labour is to e­quall others with him in authoritie. To this purpose, you first make vse of the Grecians proceedings in the Councell of Chalcedon, where the Byshops you say, did equall the Constantinopolitan See with the Roman. I answeare first, that this adequation preten­ded, was not in originall or prime authoritie, but in matter of priuiledge, as in the words it is expreslie set downe, to enioy equall priuiledges &c. aequis senio­ris regia Roma pri­uilegiis fr [...] &c. Conc. Chalc. ac [...] 16. Now priuiledge is a distinct thinge from originall authoritie, and accessorie thereunto. The priuiledges they did ayme at were that the Bisshop of Constantinople should in his proportion haue a maiestie in Ecclesiasticall affaires aboue other Sees (Rome excepted) in regard that Constantinople was then the Im­periall seate, as before Rome had bene, and [Page 356] therefore that he should take place of other Patriarckes ād be second or next after him of Rome. And with all, that he should ordaine Metropolitans in the Dioceses of Pontus, A­sia, and Thrace. These priuiledges they did aime at, and hereby would haue had a kinde of analogie with the Romane Bishop. this at­tempt of the Grecians, Leo then Pope, would by no meanes approue, and the decree which the Bishops had cōceaued he did anulle. Wee do vtterly, saith he, make void and by the autho­ritie of the blessed Apostle Peeter, S. Leo. Ep. 55. ad pul. Aug. do with a gene­ral definition wholy disanull the consents or de­crees of the Bishops which were repugnant to the rules of the Canons made at Nice. Hence I ans­weare secondlie, that the decree wanting the consent and approbation of the See Apostoli­que, was not Oecumenical, and therefore were it vnderstood of original authoritie (as it is euident it was not) and that the Byshops would therin, not by proportion onely but absolutly haue equalled an other Bishop with the Roman, it would not suffice, because a Councell when it is not Oecumenicall, doth not containe the full power of the Church to define or make decrees, but may mistake and erre.

10. Since you cannot speede there, you en­deuoure by the Nicene Councell to prooue [Page 357] the Bishop of Alexandria to be thus equall to the Roman, and that the Romā Bisshop was there limited by the Councell as well as o­thers. I haue looked on that canon, but see nothing for your purpose. The Bisshop of A­lexandria is not said there to be equall to the Roman Bishop, neither is there any speach of limiting the Roman to the west, as you pretend. The words are,Conc. Ni­cen. can 6. Let the auncient cu­stome be kept in Aegypt, Libia and Pentapolis, that the Bisshop of Alexandria haue power ouer all these, because the Roman Bisshop hath such a cu­stome. Here the Popes custome, is a reason whie the Bisshop of Alexandria is to haue power ouer Aegypt, Libia, and Pentapolis; whereby is insinuated that the Bisshop of A­lexandria therein depended on the Popes ac­customed manner of gouermēt: which argues a superioritie in the Pope, not an equalitie in the other. Your explicatiōs you must prooue to be text if you will haue me to beleeue thē. Meane while, neither in this Councell can you finde any thing for your cause, vnles wee childishlie will take a glosse, for the text, and giue you equall authoritie with a generall Coūcell in assertiōs and decrees. If the Romā Bisshop had there bene with his owne con­sent, limited to the west for exercise of Pa­triarchal authoritie, I would āsweare, that he [Page 358] sustaining diuers offices in one and the same person, might be more limited in regard of the one then of the other: his Patriarchall power might be contained with in the west, though his Pastorall Iurisdiction reached ouer the whole Church. as man hath the power of seeing restrained vnto coloured Obiects, but his power of vnderstanding reaches further to the whole latitude of being.

11. Failing againe this way, you stand still like a stocke, and refuse to acknowledge any successor to sainct Peeter in his generall care and Pastorall office, because you cannot see what necessitie there is of a Successor. It seemes you are growne dull with disputing, and would heare me rather speake. I am con­tented. A Successor in that office, was, ād is ne­cessarie, first because the Church at all tymes needs a generall Pastor, ād visible Foundatiō, as well as it did in the begining: since there­fore the Christiā Church is to endure till the worlds ēd,Visible Pastor such as sainct Peeter was the Pastor ād visible Foūdatiō must likewise endure, to confirme and to direct it. secondlie, Peeter in person, could not feede ād rule all the sheepe of Christ, from his tyme till the words end, our Sauiour therefore prouiding the Church of a Pastor that might feede ād rule thē, did in the persō of S. Peeter [Page 359] vnderstand his Successors, in that office, that so the sheepe might allwayes haue a Pastor to rule and feede them. Otherwise the grea­test part of the flocke, that is all after S, Peeters dayes, till the worlds end should haue no ge­nerall Pastor here on earth though they wan­ted him no lesse, yea more then did the Chri­stians in sainct Peeters time. Thirdlie the best forme of gouerment is Monarchicall, some­thing tempered with Aristocracie, and the more Nations are added to the Church the more neede of a Monarch. One, is vndeuided in himselfe, his iudgment and his principles are the same, but a multitude is diuided; ād the greater the multitude, the more varietie of iudgmēt the greater the varietie of inclinatiōs, dispositiōs, affectiōs, ād iudgment is the more neede there is of a cause of Vnitie to keepe them in One, which would neuer be if euery mā freelie might chose his way, and be a rule vnto himselfe. Wee see this in Heretiques, who hauing no visible cause of vnion in mat­ter of faith, doe runne sundry wayes, Arius one, Nestorius another, and so to the very last. Philosophers, ould and moderne haue gonne seuerall waies, and filld the Schooles with questions; which will neuer be deci­ded, their iudgments being directed by no One. Seuerall Nations haue diuers lawes [Page 360] according to the different opinions of their Rulers and Lawe-makers, the like would be in England, if each Shire were independent of another, and of a Monarch or common co­uerner. In religion allso each Minister would haue his way. Now the Church was to haue it it all Nations, and in them is infinite varietie of iudgment,10. 10. id. c. 21. wherefore our Sauiour to con­taine them all in one, did ordaine a Monarch, there shall be made one Fould and one Pastor. Peeter feede my sheepe. Act. 20. And tempering this Mo­narchie with Aristocracie, he putte Bysshops allso to rule the Church. Fourthlie, it was necessa­rie that in the Church there should be one to attend generallie to the whole; to call gene­rall Councells; to be President there, to con­taine the multitude of Bishops in Vnitie; and to haue a care principallie of the Churches generall affaires, which care our Sauiour gaue to sainct Peeter as an Ordinarie Office, in that he made him Pastor of his Fold, the Christian Church: and if it were necessarie then in the Apostles daies, much more it is now. Fiftly, Pastors are to continue in the Church till the end of the world by the doctrine of S. Paul; therefore the chiefe Pastor is likewise to con­tinue, which could not be in one person, the­refore in diuers. If you say that our Sauiour himselfe is chiefe Pastor,Ephes. 4. I replie that amonge visible Pastors one is chiefe, though subordi­nate [Page 361] vnto Christ, and he is to remaine as well as the rest of the clergie: and his existence is necessarie for the Gouerment of the Church. Our Sauiour doth continuallie teach and baptize, but by others, and so doth he cōtaine the Church in Vnity and gouerne by subor­dinate meanes ordained and instituted for this purpose, as God lights the world with the Sūne though if he had so pleased he could haue donne it otherwise.

12. What you pretend about Election of a Successor, is not hard, the Church designes the Person, and then he receaues power from our Sauiour in vertue of the first institution: as man disposeth matter in the generation of a man, and nature presents it so prepared vnto the Creator, who by vertue of the first insti­tution of mankinde inspires a sowle which the generant could not make. It is true that the Churches action is hindered sometymes by Schisme or other meanes, as mans genera­tion is likewise hindred otherwhile, but such hindrances are in tyme remoued, and the Successor designed. Neither is the Succession interrupted properlie in this tyme, because this Election is a continuation of it. So that, all you haue said about the tyme of Schisme might haue bene spared, because then the Church was busie in determining a successor, [Page 362] though she were hindred sometymes more, sometymes lesse, according to the difficulties which did occurre.

13. To conclude your opposition in this matter, you take vpon you not to knowe, who doth succede sainct Peeter. But if you had lookt aboute, you could not haue doubted. First, because noe Bishop in the Church euer yet was estemed, or did pretende to be aboue the Roman Bishop: since therefore S. Peeter was putte in charge of the flocke of Christ ād made Pastor of the Church, ād since this office of generall Pastor doth remaine, it followes that the Bishop of Rome is ād still was he, be­cause he is and euer was confessedlie the first Bishop in the Church. Secondlie, the Pope of Rome by your confession, hath exercised the Office of Generall Pastor of the Church these thousād yeares, ād by the Coūcells the same is cleere, neither was there any other all this tyme who did exercise or take on him that Office: not the Bisshop of Antioch, nor of Constantinople, for these Bisshops, and the most ancient Councells, as the Nicene, Con­stantinopolitan and others did acknowledge Rome before those Sees. Neither was the See without a Successor all this tyme, as I haue shewed before, because the Pastor and Foun­dation, is necessarie to the Flocke and Buil­ding, [Page 363] therefore the Roman was and is he.

14. Thirdly, the fathers of the aūciēt Church, as S. Augustine, sainct Ierom, sainct Cyprian, sainct Ireneus and others affirme cleerelie, that the Roman Bisshop is sainct Peeters Suc­cessor.S. Hieron. ad Damas. S. Aug. ep. 162. S Cypr. ep. 55. Optatus cont. Do­nat. l. 2. S. Iren. l. 3. c. 3. Tenet ista sancta sede gubernacu­la regenda­rum cunct orbis, Eccle­siarum. Theod. ep ad Ren p [...] Ro. S. Leo ep 84. Sainct Ierom calles that See S. Peeters Chaire, adding that the Church is built on that rocke. sainct Augustine putts a Catalogue of the Bisshops there, first Peeter, then Linus &c. and saith that the Principallitie of the Apostolicall Chaire hath euer flourished in the Church of Rome. sainct Cyprian calles it allso sainct Peeters Chaire and the principall Church, whence Priestlie vnitie hath come. The like hath Optatus. sainct Ireneus doth adde that for the more powerfull principalitie of that church, it is necessarie that all Churches haue recourse vnto it. That holie seate, saith Theodorette, holds the sterne of gouerning the Churches of all the world. sainct Leo knewe this in practise, but heare his words. It is by great order prouided, that all should not claime all things to themselues, but in euery Prouince should be some who should haue the prime sentēce amonge the bretheren, and againe others placed in greater Citties, should vndergoe greater care, by whom the care of the Vniuersall Church should come to the one seate of sainct Peeter. Fourthlie, this is the iudgment of the Church, acknowledging in the Roman Bisshop authoritie and power to [Page 364] call, to moderate, and to approoue generall Councells and it is declared▪ in the great La­teran Councell, that the Roman Church, hath by Gods disposition the principalitie of ordinarie power ouer all the Churches. Conc. Lat. sub Innoc. 3. c. 5. And finallie both East and West haue defined it in the Councell of Florence,Cōc. Flor. defin. Wee define say the Fathers there, that the holie Apostolique See, and Bisshop of Rome hath the Primacie ouer the whole world, and that the Roman Bisshop is the Successor of Blessed Peeter Prince of the Apostles, and the true Vicar of Christ, and heade of the whole Church, and Father and master of all Christians, and that vnto him in S. Peeter is giuen by our Lord Iesus Christ full power to feede, rule and gouerne the vni­uersall Church. The same both Armenian, Ae­thiopiā,Vide Cocc [...]. 1. l. 7. art. 4. 5. 6. 7 8. Russite and Assiriā Christiās haue ac­knowledged. So that, for this Primacie of the See Apostolique, wee haue the Fathers Te­stimonie, Theologicall Arguments, Defini­tions of Generall Councells, and the Testi­monie of the Spirit in them, the worlds con­sent, and Gods word.

THE THIRD CHAPTER. The Bishop of Rome President in Generall Councells.

15. YOur next pretense is that the Pope hath no title to be President in gene­rall Councells, or to call or approoue them, though he hath practised these things now of late. Before I answere to this argument, to shewe more cleerelie wherein the force of it doth lie, you are with me to obserue two things, the first is that there are two kinds of calling a Councell, One is Eclesiasticall in way and forme of ordination, the other is Tempo­rall in way of execution. The Question is of the former, which is prīcipall, ād wee are in it to see whether any man in the world hath such authoritie to call a Councell so as the Bishops are in regard of that calling bound to come. The second obseruation is, that one may haue the place of President in his owne name, or in the name and place of another, to whom principallie it belongeth: and this Presiden­cie may be either to some temporall end, as to keepe exterior order and peace in the Con­gregation, or to a spirituall end, which is to iudge and define matters of beleefe, and to [Page 366] establish Church discipline by decree. The question is of this second kinde of Presiden­cie not of the first, And, who is principall in this kinde as hauing power to doe it either by him­selfe or by his deputie: whereunto, notwith­standing your obiection, I answeare that it is the Pope, to whom belongs properlie to call, moderate, and approoue Generall Councells, because he is aboue another Bishops, and Successor to sainct Peeter in the gouerment of the whole Church. Being aboue other Bishops, and their Pastor, he hath power to call, and to commaund them to meete in Councell, when the Generall Church-affaires doe require it; which no Bysshop or Patriarke besides can doe, none of them all being Su­perior to all the rest. Neither cā the Emperour or any other secular Prince doe it: not princi­pallie, because he is not Gouernour of the Church, or Church busines; nor subordi­natelie if by some principall cause he chance to moued thereunto; because his power is not extended to the latitude of the Church, or ouer all Nations and all Bisshops what­soeuer, nor euer was. So that his commaund, vnto such men as were out of his Dominions, were of no power to bringe them together, more then the commaund of the kinge of Spaine, or of the Spanish Bisshops, would [Page 367] serue in France. When the Bisshops are assem­bled, the Pope still remaines as he was before, their Pastor, and their Foundation, and there-their director, their moderator, and Presidēt. And this the Generall Councell of Chalce­don did acknowledge in the Person of Leo, whom they stiled their Father and their Heade, and themselues his Sonnes and his Members.

10. The Catholique Church allso did euer acknowledge in the Pope this right of Presi­dencie, which I prooue by all the Generall Councells that euer yet haue bene. For the later held in the West you freelie graunt it, and if you did not, the proofe were easie frō Trent, Lions, Florence, and Rome it selfe. Of the former held in Greece I prooue the same: ^* [Page 368] because Donatus, Stephanus, and Marinus were Presidents in the^a eight Councell as Legates of Adriā the secōd. Two Peeters one an Archdeacon, the other an Abbot were Presidents in the^b seuenth, in the name of A­drian the first. Two Priests, Peeter and George together with Iohn a Deacon were Presi­dents in the^c Sixt for Agatho. Eutichius in the name of Vigilius was President in the ^d fift. Paschasius and Iulianus in the^e Fourth for Leo great. Cyrillus for Celestine in the^f third. The Bishops who were at the^g se­cōd Councell call Damasus their Heade: ādit became Oecumenicall in regard is was by the Pope approued: who before had called a gene­rall Councell, but the Bysshops could not all meete at Rome as he had appointed by reasō of the Arian Heresie. And therefore the Eas­terne Bisshops mette in one place vnder Ne­ctarius, the westerne in an other vnder Da­masus, who afterwards did approoue the De­crees of both parties, and so came the coun­cell [Page 369] to be one, and Oecumenicall. In the ^hfirst Hosius, Vitus, ad Vincentius were Presidents in place of Syluester▪ And by this induction it is cleere that in the Catholique Church the Popes right of Presidencie, was not onely acknowledged but practized euer. Neither can you alleage good Authoritie, or any one approued Author, who saith that euer yet, any Priest, Bishop or Patriarch was President in any Generall Councell in his owne name and not in the Popes: which you should doe, and prooue allso that the Church approued it as lawfull, before you depriue the Pope of pos­session which he hath had many hundred yeeres by your confession, and euer, as I haue prooued: and by Christs Institution too, who made him in S. Peeter the Foundatiō and Pa­stor of the Church.

17. As for the Emperours,Conc. Chalc. in Relat. ad Leon. I answeare out of the Councell of Chalcedon, that they were equiuocallie Presidents, not for Iudgment and Definition, but for peace and Orna­ment. And so much Constantine the greate whom you preferre before those, vnto whom he gaue place, will confesse for himselfe and his Successors. God, saith he to the Nicene Fathers, hath made you Priests, Ap. Ruffin l 1. c. 2. and giuen you power to iudge of vs, you may not be iudged by men, wherefore looke for Gods iudgment onely a­mongst [Page 370] your selues; and let your dissentions what­euer they be, be reserued to Gods examine. You are giuen vs as Gods, and it is not conuenient that mā, iudge Gods, but he alone of whom it is written, God stoode in the middest of Gods, and in the middest God doth iudge. For Approbation of Generall Councells my answeare and proofe is the same. First, the Roman Bisshoppe because Successor to sainct Peeter, is the Foundation ād Pastor of the Church, ād Coūcells: for him did our Sauiour pray that his faith should not faile: he was charged to confirme his Brethren, and this will be necessarie till the worlds end. Generall Councells haue euer desired his Approbation, his definition and sentence in the midst of the Bisshops, or pre­sented in his name to them, or theirs by him approoued, not els, hath bene constantlie stood vnto by the Catholique Church at all tymes. and no Decrees euer admitted which he reiected and refused to confirme. Which Vniuersall Iudgment, and Generall consent of the World, together with the authoritie of the Scripture, make his title so cleere that you shall neuer be able to dispossesse the pre­sent Pope of this honour, or to winne future tymes to your opinion.

THE FOVRTH CHAPTER. Of the Councells of Nice and Constance.

12. BEfore I leaue this matter of the Pope ād Councells I must answere two other obiections that you make. in the one you op­pose the councell of Franckford to the secōd of Nice; in the other the Laterane coūcell to that of Constance, hereby to prooue that the Church doth contradict her self and erre. Touching the former two, you pretend that the Councell of Franckford hath condem­ned the Nicene. Your Proofe is taken out of the ^a Caroline Bookes. The reason pretended is because the Nicene decred such honour to the pictures of Saincts as is due to God. Of these Bookes [...] what Be [...] lar. doth write, l. [...] de Imag. [...] 14. & 15 I ans­were First, that in the Councell of Franckford there is no such thing to be found. Secondlie, your Accusation is false, for the honour due to God is not giuen to pictures in the Nicene Councell, but another inferiour: wherefore if at Frāckford diuine honour had ben denied to pictures, yet the Councells would agree. Thirdlie, your proofe or witnes discredits his owne storie and ouer throwes himself; for he tells vs that the Councell condemned at [Page 372] Franckford was held at Constantinople in Bithynia. If at Constantinople, how then in Bithynia? Constantinople is in Thrace, Nice indeede is in Bithynia. See the ground quakes vnder the feete of your argument. Fourthlie, those Caroline bookes out of which you make this argument saie that the Councell condemned at Franckford was held without the Popes Authoritie;See Baron. an. 794. In that of Nice the Popes Legates subscribed to euerie Acte. ^{a b} [Page 373] Must a Generall and approued Councell be condemned with such beggarlie vn-coherēt proo [...]e as this?Magdeb. cent. 8. c. 9. col. 636. Quare con­tra Adriani Pontificis & Legato­rum eius sententiam decernunt, &c. The Church hath euer since the Apostles daies, and then too, beleeued that such a Councell cannot erre, and there­fore you must produce better euidēce, better thē that which plāted Christianitie if you will make her in her ould age change he Creede.

19. But suppose the Franckfort Councell had condemned all kind of honour donne to Images, which thing you doe further pretēd but cānot prooue, This were nothing against the infallibilitie of Oecumenicall Councells ād Decrees, For, that Decree of those Bishops assembled there out of the Westerne parts had wanted the consent of other Churches in communion with the See of Rome It had wanted allso the consent of the See Aposto­like without which no decree is or was euer by the Church esteemed Oecumenicall.Adrian thē Pope refu­ted the Canoline Bookes, ād maintai­ned hono­ring of I­mages as appeares cleerly by his Booke to the Em­perour, ye [...] extant in the Tome [...] of Coun­cells.

20. The Second Obiection in this kind is, that two Oecumenicall decrees one made in the ^a Laterane Councell, the other b at Constance are opposite in the matter of the Popes authoritie: one will haue the Councell vnder the Pope; the other ouer: whēce you in­ferre that the Church doth cōtradict her self in beleeuing both. Staie Sir, not so fast the Church hath not both parts of any oppositiō [Page 374] in her Creede. but let vs cōsider the streingth of your argument. If you should auouch that you sawe two lions fighting, it is not sufficiēt to the veritie of your relation, that the things which you saw did fight, or that they were Lions, for, if one were a Lion the other a Beare, or if both were Lions but did agree and not fight, your relatiō would be laughed at. To make good your argument, you must prooue here two things; one is that these are decrees and each Oecmenicall: the other, that one of them in sense is contradictorie to the other. Then further, if you will accuse the Church, you must prooue that she beleeues them both, in those contradictorie senses. Your labour would not be vnprofitable, if you ^{a b} [Page 375] could efficaciouslie prooue and make it eui­dent, that one of them is such a definition as you speake of: and that, which soeuer it be, wee all will admitte, and thanke you too. But I must aduise you of the difficulties you are to finde herein, being such, as greater Schol­lers then I take you for, haue not bene able to ouercome.

21. First therfore, you are to make it eui­dent that in the Lateran Councell the Supe­rioritie of the Pope is formallie defined, and that the words wherin it is attributed vnto him or acknowledged as belonging vnto him, haue the nature of a decree, for a Coun­cell defines not euerie thing, which it saith. Secondlie, you are to make it euident,reflect in whose time and where it was, how things stood in France &c that the Councell was Oecumenicall, and that it was open and free to all Bishops in the commu­nion of the Church. Thirdlie, you must make it euident that the decree of Cōstance, is not limitted in circumstances; and that it doth not speake onelie of such a Pope, as were doubt­full; or in case of Heresie, or Schisme, but ab­solutelie of any whatsoeuer. Fourthlie you must allso make it euident that the decree was Oecumenicall, or the Generall Decree of the Church, and not of one Obedience onelie; other two not consenting. These are some [Page 376] of the many, and obscure difficulties, which hetherto learned men haue not bene able to see thorough: and therfore the truth in this Controuersie lies hidden so as neither part is cleerelie knowne for ā Oecumenicall decree or definition: though you rashlie and most ignorantlie haue affirmed it of them both. Which you did to make shewe of good forme in your argumēt, euerie one knowing that a contradiction betwixt Oecumenicall decrees, doth suppose that both parts contra­dicting are Oecumenicall.

22. Another part of your argument is that ita is Contradiction: and this part must be prooued allso, and made euident before your argument recouer strength. But it is so farre out your power, that (suppose all the rest were dissembled) you could neuer be able to make it good: that is, to prooue and demon­strate that one is opposite or contradictorie to the other; and therfore you doe most vn­discreetelie reiect the Authoritie of Generall Councells, reuerenced euer by the Church, and directed by Gods Spiritte, out of feare or apprehension of a contradiction, which in the Laterane and that of Constance you thinke you see. The Scholler who reiects Aristotle, or Iustinian, or the Bible for [Page 377] euerie seeming contradiction, will neuer be good Philosopher, nor good Lawier, nor good Deuine.

23. It is manifest by the acts of the of the Councell of Constance that the de­cree whereon you insist was at first not made by the whole Church; because, of three Obediences which then were, One onelie, that is, Iohns Obedience or partie made it: the other Two not being vnited vnto them. So that if you take it as proceeding from those onelie who first made it, it was not Oecumenicall. The other Obediences of Gregorie and Bennet vnited them selues afterwards: One in the 14. Session,Act. Conc. the other in the 22. and the Church thus vni­ted, a Pope was chosen: so that the Coun­cell now, that is, after the Vnion of all Obediences, and Election of the Pope, was Oecumenicall; and therfore what was now decreed anew, or approued though pēned before, was therby made Oecumeni­call. If therefore you can make it euident that the Councell and Pope at this tyme did approoue the decree before made, I will ad­mitte that it is Oecumenicall, and beleeue it. Neither is there any reason I doe so before this appeares, because decrees take their force [Page 378] from the approbation of those which haue authoritie, and not allwayes from the writer or conceauer. In Parlament, a constitution may be conceaued in the lower howse, and agreed ō there; yet hath it not the true nature of a lawe till it passe the vpper howse, and allso be confirmed by the Kinge. So likewise this constitution conceaued and agreed on first by Iohns Obedience or adherents, hath not the nature and force of an Oecumenicall decree, till it passe the Generall Councell wherein the whole Church is vnited, and allso be confirmed by the Pope.

23. That wee may see further the weaknes of your argument, since you cannot make it euident that the Canon made at Constance in the fourth Session, was thus generallie re­ceaued and approued by the Councell when all Obediences were vnited; and there rati­fied by the Pope: Let vs freelie and out of curtesie suppose it had bene so, and that the Pope were bound to obay the decrees of such a Councell, in the things which the canon speakes of, and further that in power it were Superiour vnto the Pope: all this would cōsist with the words of the other Councell, and both might be true. These two propositions. A Councell perfectlie Oecumenicall and by the [Page 379] power of the See Apostolique approoued,I doe not attēd what the Coun­cell was when the Canon was conceaued but what it was when wee sup­pose that the Canon was con­firmed. ād thereby representing the Church perfectlie, and simpliciter, as Philosophers speake, is aboue the Pope. A Councell vnperfectlie Oecumenicall as not being approoued by the Pope, nor in­cluding his power, and consequentlie not re­presenting the Church perfectlie, is not aboue the Pope. These two propositions (I say) are not contradictorie nor Opposite, and ther­fore if they were defined, wee would beleeue them both.

24. If you should aske in that case, in whom, or in what formallie that power greater thē the Popes, were; It would be answeared, that it were not preciselie in the Pope, nor preciselie in the rest, but in the whole, consisting of them all: as the sowle is not preciselie in the heade, nor preciselie in the rest of the bodie, but in the whole and compleate bodie, con­sisting of heade, shoulders, armes, hart, and o­ther partes in regard whereof, as when the bodie is takē a sunder and deuided the heade from the shoulders, the sowle is in neither of the partes: euen so it would be said in that case, that if you consider the Pope, and the rest of the Councell a part, this power were in nei­ther; because it is the act, the forme, and the vertue of the whole, or of the Totalitie, to speake as the Philosophers doe. It would be [Page 380] further answered that such a full Councell had immediatelie the assistance of the All-teaching Spiritte, and power to binde and loose, and the like by vertue of our Sauiours promise: yet so, that the Pope alone had power too ouer each in the Church, he being in S. Peeter made Pastor of them all. In re­gard of which Institution of our Sauiour all Catholiques agree in this, that the Pope is su­perior to euerie Bisshoppe in the Church.

25. Hauing cōpared the Pope, being a parte of a full and perfect Oecumenicall Coūcell, to the whole bodie or Coūcell, wherein he was included as a part in the whole, as the heade in a perfect and entire bodie, it remaines now that wee deuide this Councell or perfect Bodie againe into two partes, by taking the heade from the rest, and compare these partes together. In this diuision these parts are but two, one is the Pope, the other are the rest of the Councell, which is vnperfect, and there­fore a parte being without the Pope, as a mans bodie without a heade is but an vnper­fect bodie, and indeed but a part. Of the coū ­cell in this sense, the Lateran speakes as the words themselues do conuince euidentlie and it is among all men out of question. So that if it were an Oecumenicall decree, the cleere sense would be that the Pope were [Page 381] aboue such a Councell; and this wee would beleeue. Neither were there any contradi­ction at all in this, to saie that one part is in power aboue the other: and that the whole is in power aboue either part. Reade ouer your Lo­gicke rules, examine well the nature of a con­tradiction, marke the termes, and you will see that it is true which I doe saie: [...] you [...] with any [...]culties out of A­fricke, it will be easie for you to drowne thē heere. And there­fore I conclude the solution of this argument here; hauing declared the two propositions which you apprehend as opposite decrees, and incite eagerlie one against the other thereby to extenuate the authoritie of Ge­nerall Councells, to be so farre from the ri­gour of contradiction that if they were both Decrees and both Oecumenicall, of their owne accord they would come together and shake hands.

THE FIFT CHAPTER. Of the Scripture.

26. FRom Constance you come to Trent, and accuse the Councell held there, of two things touching the Scripture, the one is addition to the Canon; the other, the autho­rization of the vulgar Latin. Before I answere I must put you in minde That as you accuse [Page 382] vs for beleeuing some bookes in your iudg­ment not Canonicall, to be the word of God, so do others which are in a manner your Masters in Religion, and had the first fruites of the protestant Spiritte accuse you for ad­ding to Gods word the Epistle of S. Iames, the Reuelation of S. Iohn, and other partes: whereunto you can giue no reasonable satis­faction, vnles you acknowledge an errour in reprehending vs,Negat [...] Luth. in praef. ad ep Iac. & in 1. Pec. 1. Illi [...]. praef. in Iac. Kem. Exa. sess. 4 Magd. c. l. 2. c. 4. and subscribe to that which wee knowe to be the truth. For, I demaund how you prooue against Luther, Kemnitius, the Centurists and other Lutherans, that the Epistle vnder the name of S. Iames, is the word of God. If you say that you knowe it by testimonie of Antiquitie, they will ans­were that no such thing was then generallie beleeued,Eusebius l [...]. Hist c. 25 [...] Hiero. de [...]e Viris il­ [...]st. in Ia­ [...]obe. and will call to witnesse Eusebius, S. Hierom and other auncient writers. To answere that you know it by the stile and phrase of speach, giues them no satisfaction at all, For they so disesteeme it in this respect pe­culiarlie that in regard of the stile and matter they professe themselues moued to beleeue the contrarie, and to put it out of the number of Canonicall bookes. If you answere that by the helpe of the Spiritte you discerne it, you moue them not, for they claime as great an interest, as full a participation of the Spirit [Page 383] as your selues, ād therefore you moue not thē to beleeue as you do. But suppose if you will that all Antiquitie stoode on your side, what could this preuaile to moue a Lutheran to be­leeue the matter or to cōfirme your disciples who stagger at your want of proofe? what could this auaile I say, seeing that it is agreed amōgst you that the Church, that all the Fa­thers, that all men since the Apostles might haue aggreed in an errour.

27. According to the grounds of our Re­ligion euerie Catholique can answere easilie that whatsoeuer by the Church of God is receaued for diuine Scripture is infalliblie such, because the Church is directed by Gods All-seeing Spirit which can discerne it well. And suppose the Catholique were vnlear­ned ād that all of you together both Lutherās and Caluinists should pretēd that in the Boo­kes there wanted the Spirit of truth, ād seeke to maintaine this with a shewe of oppositiō, either within it selfe, or to some other part of Scripture, or to reason, which thing you doe manie times pretend, as Iulian and Porphyrie and others haue done before; he would ans­were you all without difficultie by recourse to the diuine Assistance in the Church, which he takes for a principle of Christian Religion, beleeued heretofore by the whole Christian world, and warranted by God himselfe in [Page 384] cleere termes: and would say that the know­ledge of the Church thus assisted is more cer­taine then the contrarie pretense of any ad­uerse part whatsoeuer, and she more able to espie contradiction, errour or opposition, thē any other is, in regard of the holie Spirit, who directeth her, and with an infinite vnderstan­ding lookes earnestlie vppon All. In vertue of which assistance she hath maintained scri­pture against Heathens, and Apostataes, and misbeleeuing Iewes, ād Heretiques hetherto, and still doth and will doe. Further more, a Catholike doth not thinke it necessarie that the booke which he beleeueth to be Scrip­ture, hath beene euer vniuersallie by the Church esteemed so, He knowes it is suffi­cient if the Catholicke Church hath at any time beleeued it: For, one of the Principles of our Religiō is that the Catholike Church cannot erre at all in matter of faith, it cannot erre in any age, in any tyme. And this princi­ple hath euer bene beleeued by Catholiks. Moreouer, that which at any tyme she be­leeueth, hath bē infolded in her faith at other times, and so virtuallie beleeued euer and by all.

29. Now to your opposition. Whereas you say that of late onelie some Books haue beene taken into the canon. I answere first [Page 385] that such Bookes as your selues doe receaue for canonicall, were not all at once vniuer­sallie receaued in the Church but were ack­nowledged by degrees.S. Hieron. de viris il­lustribus in Paulo, Ia­cobo, Pe­tro & Ioā ­ne. & in Ep. ad Dardan itemque in Prolog. So much you knowe by those I haue allreadie named, and S. Hie­rom can tell you more. Yet are these allso by your owne confession the word of God, and were such in themselues before it was gene­rallie knowne vnto the world. As our Sauiour was the naturall Sonne of God and his incre­ated Word, before the world did knowe or beleeue him so to be. The reason is, because mans knowledge is later then the veritie; and the more obscure the thing is the longer he is ordinarilie before he can find it out. Secon­dlie it is not so late as you thinke since these Bookes were in the Church esteemed.Cit. Bel­larm. de Verbo Dei l. 1. Vide Ba­ron an. 415 August. Ep 235. & de doct. Chr. l. 2. c. 8. Innocent. Ep. 3. ad Exuper. c. 7. & Can. Sācta Rom d. 15. Ierem. 36. cano­nicall and diuine though not so generallie, as I noted before: for you finde them cited for such in the Fathers writings verie oft, and in the councell of carthage held in the tyme of Boniface twelue hundred yeares agoe, you haue a Catalogue of them all, the verie same which you finde now deliuered by the coū ­cell of Trent, sauing onlie that Baruch (which the auncient Fathers did acknow­ledge allso for diuine) is after the manner of those tymes comprized with Ieremie, whose Secretarie you know he was. I adde thirdlie [Page 386] that whereas S. Augustine who subscribed to the foresaid councell, doth prescribe a rule for yonge Deuines to finde which Scripture is of greatest authoritie, bidding them pre­ferre that which all Churches doe receaue before that which is receaued onlie by some Churches, or some part, wee now, seeing the foresaid canon receaued at length by the whole Church of God, and this declared in a Generall Councell, must and doe, yeauen by S. Augustines rule receaue it all as the word of God, and consequentlie of one and the same Authoritie all, there being no surer ground of mans faith in such a case then is the Spirit of God in the Church. The like I answere them allso who runne to the Iewes canon: for the Spirit of the christian Church is no lesse able to discerne a veritie then they were, and therefore if the christian Church at anie tyme declare a Booke to be diuine though the Iewes knewe it not, wee beleeue it, and must, For the holie Ghost cannot erre. The Iewes knewe not all that God hath taught his Church.

30. The second exception is vnreasonable if you consider well what is done, and the reason of it. All Schollers as you knowe doe noe not addict their studies to the tōgues: the Hebrewe is so obscure, that fewe doe [Page 387] attaine vnto anie reasonable knowledge of it, and none at all in these later times especiallie, to the comprehension of the tongue, but by helpe of Dictionaries compiled by such as come short of the thing it selfe,Of the [...]. or of mo­derne Iewes not equall to the learned of the tyme wherein the Bookes were first written, do endeuour what they can. This, experience hath taught vs,Elias [...] in Hab [...] Vide Ge­nebrard in Psal. 104. Serrar. Prol. Bibl. c. 19. q. 6. Aliquoties dixi pluri­ma voca­bula esse, quorum si­gnificatio ipsis etiam Hebraeis ig­nota est. Luth. in Gen. c. 34 it is euident also in the conti­nuation and transfusion of all languages to posteritie; and Rabbines themselues doe con­fesse it. In regard therefore that Schollers commonlie vnderstand not Hebrewe, it hath euer beene thought conueniēt the Scripture should be translated into such a language, as generallie they doe knowe, which is Latine. In the primitiue Church this was practised and among you it is allowed allso, in so much that your predecessors Luther, Caluin, Beza, Iunius, and others haue made euerie one his owne translation to binde his fellowes there vnto as the best, and you haue not yet done translating, and changing your translations: whereas none of you can denie, and all wise men doe see, that if one translation could be generallie aggreed vppon it were best. Now further, because elder tymes as being neerer to the writers, had better helpes and purer coppies, it is better in the iudgment of all mē, [Page 388] the translation be old and made in those tymes, rather then now in this scarcitie of coppies, this obscuritie of the language, this want of the meanes which then were.Cōc. Trid Sess. 4. This considered the Catholique Church hath de­creed in the Councell of Trent that among Latine translations the old and common, by the longe vse of many ages approoued in the Church stand authentique and be taken for ⁶⁴ [Page 389] such. I tould you before, wise men would haue but One, ād this one to haue bene made long agoe when it might better be perfor­med, and to be lookt on by diuers able to iudge of the goodnes, and better able and more impartiall then our selues. Whence it followes that the wisest, had not the decree at all bene made, would yet haue chosen this, it being the Old and cōmon translation. For, it was made in the tyme of the Primitiue Church, reuiewed in those daies by S. Hie­rome, compared since by learned men in all ages to such originalls as in each age they could finde, and vsed by the Church for ma­nie hundred yeares.

30. The Fountaines wee reuerence too, and more fullie then you doe, admitting and beleeuing whatsoeuer can be manifestlie prooued to belonge iustlie thereunto, to the verie last word and letter. And it is ignorance in you to say that in the Councell of Trent they be reiected. The decree speakes of La­tine editions onelie, ex omnibus latinis editioni­bus quae circumferuntur &c. and makes choise of one by generall vse lōg before approoued. True it is that the puritie of the fountaine it selfe in some places is called in question,Calu. in in zach. 11. & inst. l. 1. c 13. and Caluin your Master doth imagine that it runnes not allwaies cleerlie, as you may see [Page 390] in his Institutions.Luth. Enar in Esa. c 9. Luther cryeth out on the Iewes for crucifying the text; and what diffi­cultie the Rabbines thēselues haue, appeares cleerely by their great Massoreth. Wee haue more helpe then you all to knowe the truth in this question too. wee admitte the doctrine of Tradition; so must the Iewes, so must you: otherwise you know not which is text. Wee haue allso the assistance of the holie Spirit in the Church to declare the veritie ād power of originalls where the generall neces­sitie of the Church doth require it. and there is no Catholique in the world which is not readie to beleeue their puritie and integritie so farre as there is sufficient warrant for it.

31. But how came these corruptions into the Bible? this question you should haue putt vnto your Masters. for my part I thinke the resolution of it nothing at all necessarie for our purpose. Writers might easilie mistake, es­peciallie considering the little difference of many Hebrewe Characters and the nicenes of the points: and suppose the points be taken of, there will be found some fault in the let­ters. I knowe the Iewes are men, and there­fore if Gods assistance be not in the businesse their labour in counting letters giues me no securitie, for how shall I knowe that their [Page 391] coppies were exact, that the letters be dulie ordered &c. which is requisite, because the disposition and combination of the same let­ters may be diuers, not onelie in one period which may serue to change the sense, but in the same verie word: and of the integritie in this kinde which is necessarie to the know­ledge of the sense, as also of the exact integri­tie of the Coppies which they numbred you can giue no generall warrant. Againe, besides the difficultie or impossibilitie of this you will be sore troubled, yea it is vnpossible for you proceeding in your Protestant Principles, to giue satisfaction yeauen to your owne fel­lowes in any part of Scripture whatsoeuer, because you maintaine that all men notwith­standing the promise which God hath made vnto the Church, may haue erred, and conse­quentlie S. Ierom, and S. Augustine ād others being men, may likewise haue done so in de­termining or iudging which Scripture or writing is diuine, especiallie since each part, each verse is not a fundamētall, as you speake. I am not troubled at all in the busines but let the learned scanne the difficulties, and sift things out, remaining euer readie to beleeue what the Church hath, or hereafter shall re­solue touching the puritie, the interpretation and sense of the whole, or any part, place, or [Page 392] word of the text: you and your Protestant Congregation with your distinction of fun­damentall and not fundamentall, haue no meanes to determine the integritie of the Scripture, touching bookes, parts, verses, words, interpretation, as in an other place I haue declared more at large.

THE SIXT CHAPTER. Of the reall Presence.

33. VVHen wee dispute, you graunt the Reall Presence, not able other­wise to make answere to Scripture and An­tiquitie; but when you dispute, you declare manifestly that you beleeue it not. You will not beleeue you say, that the body of a man can be vnder the forme or shape of breade, that the same thing can be in heauen and on the alter too. If you beleeue not this, how do you beleeue the Reall Presence? how do you beleeue the words of Iesus Christ, saying of the Sacrament in his hād, this is my body, and of the Chalice,Mat. 26. v. 27.28. this is my bloode? if that thing were his body, thē was his body in the shape of breade and at once in diuers places. If you say that thing was not his body, you con­tradict him: you do not reallie beleeue the presence to the signes. I doe not say, to your [Page 393] imagination, but, to the signes; this reallie you beleeue not.

34. As for your oppositions, they are sent backe with this answere, that nature indeede cannot effect those things, they are out of the spheare of her actiuitie, but the power of God is infinite, and the things in them selues in­clude no contradiction: wherefore God can effect them. And being grounded in his word, wee beleeue them without more adoe. Man is not able with his wit to discouer all the wayes of God, or to comprehend the whole obiect of his power. Our knowledge wee gather from those fewe things wee see, or perceaue by some exteriour sēse, ād the perfe­ction of allmightie God is infinitelie aboue all this. He knoweth more then wee doe, and being truth by nature, cannot lie, wherefore if he tell vs any thing though wee vnderstand it not, wee must beleeue it. Faith is an argumēt of things not appearing. Heb. 11. that in the Deitie be three persons, each distinct reallie from the o­ther two yet all reallie the same God, is a greate mysterie, it is obscure, our vnderstan­ding cannot reach it, but faith giuing creditte vnto God who saith it is so, doth beleeue it. that our Sauiour is the secōd person in this holie Trinitie cōsubstātiall to God the Father, is a Mysterie which nature wonders at, yet [Page 394] faith beleeues this too, because God who cannot deceaue or be deceaued doth auouch it. Wee trust his knowledge, and take his word. Nature is Gods worke, she hath not the per­fection of her maker; and therefore must not compare and equall her selfe with him in vn­derstanding, or cast an imputation of Errour on all that is not within the circuite of her acquaintaince. God knowes more then she doth, and therefore she may learne. Schollers that are ingenuouse beleeue their Masters ād so come to knowledge, whereas those who beleeue nothing are euer rude and vnlearned A Scholler heareth his Master say the Sūne is bigger then the Earth, and beleeuing falls to learne the demonstration: The clowne takes measure of the obiect with his eies,Stellat pri­mae mag­nitudinis cēties sep­tuagies maiores terrâ asse­rūt Astro­nomi. and esteeming it no bigger then the Cheese he cutte yesterdaie when he came from plough, will not beleeue the philosophers, nor the Mathematicians, nor all the bookes in the world before his owne eies; not he, no that he won not. Wee are in the Schoole of Reli­gion: our Professors and Instructors are the Pastors vnder our great Master Iesus Christ, who cleerly doth see the truth of all he doth auouch. You rudely take measure of things as in your sillie imagination they appeare, mak­ing sensible things there, or the short know­ledge [Page 395] you haue of them, the rule and com­passe of all Being: so denying in effect that God is able to doe any thing further then you can direct him. as if in your heade were as much Art as God hath, and your knowledge the full compasse and direction of Gods om­nipotence.

35. But what is the thing you stumble at? Substance of it selfe is not determined to place, it hath this determinatiō by accidents? by Quantitie, Localitie, Vbication. If God bestowe on it supernaturallie two Sacramen­tall Vbications at once, it is at once in two places Sacramentallie; if a thousand, it is in a thousand places. Sacramētall Existencie, what­soeuer it be called, as Vbicatiō, Presence, or by what other name you will, is an Accident, and this Accident is the formall reason or cause of being present vnder the dimensiōs in the roome of Breade. It is supernaturall to the body, and God hath power to produce many of these at once.

36. You replie that the very same thing cannot without contradiction be at once present in many dimensions without being deuided. This is false, the thing may haue in­diuiduation or vnitie in it selfe, and by it selfe, and yet be in many dimensiōs too. The soule of man is one and indiuisible, and yet in the [Page 396] dimensions of all the members of the body. That which is in the heade is in the feete, not a peece, for the soule hath no peeces, it is in­diuisible, but it is all in each part. God is heere and in heauen too, and, yet not deuided though betwixt this place and heauen there be many other things.

37. Againe you replie that the same bodie cannot be at once in many mouthes. But, why not, if it be at once in many dimensions? The foule, an indiuisible thing, is naturallie at once in many members, it is at once in the heade, hands, feete, fingers, and toes, and in each member all. ād this without any contra­dictiō or diuision; why thē may not God whose power is infinite supernaturallie put one and the same Bodie at once in many mouthes? It is no contradiction, He may doe it. Measure not his power by your witte. The thing may be aboue your conceipt, no meruaile, it is super­naturall. The existence of the sowle in many members all, is naturall, Tell me first how this is done? It is in the heade and in the feete, yet hath no distance in it selfe. It is in manie fingers, yet one. It is in euerie part of an ex­tended bodie, and yet not extended▪ it is in the hart, and in the sides, in the tongue, and in the mouth that is round aboute it, it is in the heade, that doth compasse the braine and it is [Page 397] within the braine all, vnles in your braine peraduenture it be not. Shall I now argue out of this that it is within and without, and round aboute it selfe? if I meant to trouble an vnlear­ned reader, and turne his braine as you doe, I would. When you haue made him vnderstād these things touching the naturall existence of his sowle, he will be able to answere all that you can saie touching the supernaturall existence of the bodie of Iesus Christ in many mouthes; and if he doth not yet vnderstand that, being naturall, no maruaile if he doth not vnderstand this Mysterie, it being super­naturall.

38. The other peece of your difficultie is, that a bodie is naturallie extended, and a mās bodie fills a greate place, therefore it cannot be within that little roome. I answere, that substance of it selfe fills no place, but by an Accident called Situall extension or Locali­tie, as, by it selfe it is not visible, but by ā Acci­dēt, Colour. These Accidēts are distinct from the Substance: they are not Substance. If God take away the Colour, or will not let it mooue the eie, the substance is not seene: if God take away the Localitie, it filles no place; He is the Creator and may doe as he list. The Bodie of our Sauiour in the Sacrament hath not situall extension or Localitie, it succeeds into the [Page 398] roome of breade. Before, breade was vnder those dimensiōs which you see, and the body succeeds to bread, wherefore the body is now vnder the same. It is true that the nature of a bodie requires extensiō, but God is Author of nature, and needs nor paie but when he please▪ his Dominiō is absolute. Humane nature hath a proper subsistence due vnto it, yet in Christ it hath none but diuine.

39. To your question how this is donne, I answere that other Infidels had the like diffi­cultie in other matters, as how he who filles heauen and earth should be in a Mothers armes, a little child Almightie God. Do you vnderstand how this doth come to passe? how is the indiuisible Substance of God in each part of the world all? S Chrys. in Ep. ad Heb Hom. 2. S Cyrill. Alexand. l. 4. in Ioan. c. 13. Reade here an [...]xcellen discourse [...]o this [...]urpose. I said God is euery where saith a learned Father) but I doe not vn­derstand it: I say that he is without begining, but doe not vnderstand it: I say that he hath begott a Sonne &c. You should attend to the coun­sell of S. Cyrill, in such high things neuer to question how, when God works leaue the way and the knowledge of his worke vnto himselfe. As the heauens are exalted aboue the the earth, so are my wayes exalted aboue your wayes, Isa. 55. and my cogitations aboue your cogitations, saith allmightie God. This how, is the Iewes question in this matter, as the Father before [Page 399] named doth wel obserue. Our Sauiour had said that the bread which he would giue was his flesh, 10. 6. ād that he who did eate it should liue for euer. Wherevppon the Iewes moued this questiō, how can this man giue vs his flesh to eate? If they had beleeued he was God, they might then haue knowne that he was able to turne breade into his flesh and so giue it in the forme of breade to be eaten, but they did not beleeue him to be God, ād therefore moued the question how. Which question I leaue a while in your mouth, and betake my selfe to the text, where I finde that he gaue his bodie and blood to the disciples: and thus I argue.

39. If Iesus Christ, true God, and there­fore allmightie, did affirme in expresse termes that the Eucharist which he gaue his Disciples was his bodie and bloode, wee are to beleeue it was so, since God is Truth, and Truth can­not lie: but Iesus Christ whom you confesse and I haue declared to be true God,l. 2. c. 4 [...] and all­mightie, did affirme in expresse termes that the Eucharist which he gaue his disciples was his bodie and blood, therefore wee are to be­leeue it. The Proposition you will not que­stion, for you professe you are a Christian,l. 2. and if you were none there is inough said in ano­ther place, to make you graunt it. The Assū ­ption is cleere in the Gospell. THIS IS MIE [Page 400] BODIE, Mat. 26. THIS IS MIE BLOOD. And further yet, that men should not mistake our Sauiours meaning, he, our Sauiour did adde such attributes to this Bodie and Blood, as can­not agree to Breade and Wine,Luc. 22. 1. Cor. 11. or, is deli­uered. This is my Bodie which is giuen for you, this is my bodie which shall be deliuered for you. Was breade giuen for vs? were wee redeemed with breade? was bread crucified for the redemption of the world?Mat. 26. This is my blood of the new Testament, which shall be shedde for manie vnto remission of sinnes. Was wine the blood of the new Testament? was wine shed for remission of Sinnes? No, it was the true blood of Iesus Christ.Luc. 22. This is the Chalice the new Testament in my blood, which Chalice shall be shed for you. or, is shed. The Chalice, that is the thing in the Chalice is shed for vs. Is this thing wine, or blood? If wine, then you are redee­med with wine, wine was in the side of Iesus Christ. If the thing in the Chalice were blood, then blood, true blood, the blood wherewith wee were redeemed was there in the Cha­lice,10. 6. and the Disciples dranke it. In an other place he said allso, the bread which I will giue is my flesh, vnles you eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood, you shall not haue life in you, my flesh is meate indeede, and my blood is drinke indeede, he that eateth my flesh ād drinketh my blood, 1. Cor. 10. abideth in me and I in him. And the [Page 401] Apostle. The Chalice of benediction which wee do blesse is it not the communication of the blood of Christ? and the bread wee [...] doe sacrifice vnbloodilie as in the next. ch. v. 24. [...] And your Caluin doth ac­know­ledge this sense, fran­gi saith he vppon that place In­terpreter immolari. 1. Cor. 11. breake is it not the par­ticipation of the bodie of our Lord? whosoeuer shall eate this bread or drinke the Chalice of our Lord vnworthilie he shall be guiltie of the bodie, ād of the blood of our Lord. He that eateth and drin­keth vnworthilie eateth and drinketh iudgment to himselfe, not discerning the bodie of our Lord. And you too, discerne it not, you esteeme it bakers bread. You doe not beleeue that it is the bodie of our Lord. You doe not beleeue that it is heauenlie breade. That it is the flesh of Christ. that the Chalice is the communication of blood that the blood of Christ is drinke and his bodie meate. that Christ is is in him that hath eaten this breade. This you beleeue not, but are content with common bread and wine. Com­mon wine with you is the Testament of Ie­sus Christ, it issued out of his side, you were re­deemed with it, and bakers breade was cruci­fied for your sinnes.

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER. The Fathers vnderstood the Reall Presence as wee doe.

40. FOr the Reall Presence out of Anti­quitie are cited Iustinus the Martyr, Ireneus, Tertulliā, Hilarius, both the Cyrills, Ambrose, Epiphanius, Hesichius, Optatus, Augustine, Ierom, Leo, Gregorie and others by Zanchez, Coccius, Garetius and Gualte­rius. Your answere is that all are to be vnder­stode of a figuratiue, and not a reall Presence. You thinke the Bodie and Blood are in heauē onelie and no neerer: but wine and breade you say are equiuocallie called the blood and Bo­die though they be indeede nothing els but signes. This deuice doth not satisfie. For the Fathers haue directlie expressed all the con­ditions of a reall Presence to the verie last; and will not be contented with your figure. This I delare.

41. First because in conceauing the Insti­tution of a signe, there is no difficultie, it was easie to say, and for men to vnderstand that breade was a signe or figure of the bodie, if our Sauiour had meant onelie this, but the Fathers apprehende in the Eucharist a great [Page 403] and incomprehensible Mysterie. I will cite one or two least you denie it, and will ob­serue the same manner of proceeding to the end of this Chapter. S. Chrysostom speaketh thus. Good Lord what a wonderfull miracle is this? S. Chrys. d [...] Sacerd. l 3. how great is Gods loue towards mankinde? Behold he who sitteth aboue with his Father, in one and the same moment of tyme is touched by the hands of vs all, and he giueth himselfe to such as are desirous to receaue and embrace him. Idē Hom. 60. ad Pop. An­tioch. Thinke with thy selfe what honour is done vnto thee, and what a table thou art made partaker of. Wee are vnited vnto, and are fed with that verie thing at which the An­gells when they behold it do tremble, neither dare they boldlie gaze vppon it by reason of the bright shining splendour which issueth from it. Idē. hom. 14. in pri. Cor. Ibid. vocat cali [...] em benedi­ctionis salicem for­mi dolosum & horroris plenum S. Ephr. l. de nat. Do­minimè scrut. c. 5. Ibidem. In saying the Eucharist I open all the treasure of Gods bles­sing. S. Ephrem. Why dost thou search things that are vnsearchable? If thou diue curiouslie into these matters thou shalt not be called faithfull but cu­rious. Be thou faithfull and innocent, receaue the vnspotted bodie of this Lord with an entire faith, being assured that thou eatest the lambe himselfe entire. The Mysteries of Christ are immortall fire: search them not rashlie, least in their search thou be burned. This truely which the onelie begotten sonne Christ our Sauiour hath donne for vs, surpasseth all admiration, all thought, and all speach: for he hath giuen vs fire and Spirit to be eaten and drūke, [Page 404] that is, his body and his Blood. Hence I argue thus. If the Fathers did apprehend in the Eu­charist a greate and vnsearchable mysterie, they apprehended more then breade and wine with a relation vnto the bodie and blood, this being an easie thing and not in­comprehensible; but the Fathers did appre­hend in the Eucharist a great and vnsearcha­ble Mysterie, as you haue heard; therefore more then bread and wine with a relation to the bodie and blood of Christ.

42. Secondlie. The Fathers saie that bread and wine are changed into the bodie and blood of Christ. You striue indeed to put thē of with an accidentall change in office and vse: as a counter when it stands for a crowne, hath a morall change by reason of this depu­tation, though the substance be still the same it was: so here you admitte a change in acci­dentall reference, for of no signe it is made a signe, it hath a newe reference, yet the na­ture you say is the still the same; to wit, breade ād wine. But this will not serue, For the Fathers saie they are changed in nature and esteeme it a worke of Gods omnipotence; comparing it allso with other physicall changes, as of Moyses rodde into a Serpent, [...]. Ambros. de myst. [...] nit. c. 9. water into wine &c. How many examples do wee vse to prooue that the thing, is ^a not that which nature made, but [Page 405] that which the blessing hath consecrated, and that the power of consecration is greater then the power of nature, for by consecration the verie ^b nature it selfe is changed. Thou hast learned therefore that of breade is ^c made the bodie of Christ, Id. l. 4. de sacr. c. 4. and that wine and water is putt into the chalice, but by the consecration of the heauenly word it is made blood. He, our Sauiour, changed once water into wine, S. Cyrill. Hier. Ca­tech. Myst. 3. Id. Ca­tech. 1. and is he not worthie to be beleeued of vs that he hath ^d changed wine into blood? The breade and wine of the Eucharist before the sacred inuocation of the adored Trinitie were simple bread and wine: but the inuocatiō being once done, the bread indeed is ^e made the flesh of Christ, and the wine his blood. The bread which our Lord gaue vnto his disciples, Auth serm de coena. ap. Cypr. being changed not in shape, but ^f nature, by the omnipotence of the word is made flesh. I doe righlie and with good reason beleeue that the bread being sanctified by Gods word, S. Greg. Nissē. orat. Cathec. c. 37. is ^g changed into the bo­die of God the word. Christ thorough the dispensa­tion of his grace entereth by his flesh into all the faithfull, and mingleth himselfe with their bodies which haue their substance from bread and wine, to the end that man being vnited to that which is im­mortall may attaine to be made partaker of incor­ruption, Ibib. and these things he bestoweth h transele­menting by the vertue of his blessing the nature of the things that are seene, into it. God, S. Cyril. A­lex Ep. ad Calos. cōdescending to our infirmities doth flow into the things offered [Page 416] on the Altar the power of life conuerting them into the Veritie of his owne flesh, that the bodie of life as it were a certaine quickning seede might be foūd in vs. [...]. Gaudent in Exod. tr. [...]. The Lord ād Creator of Nature that of earth made breade, againe because he can doe it, and hath promised to doe it, ^k makes of breade his owne bodie, and he that of water made wine, now of wine hath made his blood. Now Sir, Cōuersion, change of Nature it selfe, transelementation of breade and wine into flesh and blood, doe put flesh ād blood reallie and substantiallie in the remai­ning signes or exteriour formes of breade and wine.

43. As that which wee beleeue in this matter may be and is explicated in seuerall propositions, and by the Fathers too, so your Opinion may be vnfolded into diuers propo­sitions by way of explication. I will brieflie put them downe, and leaue your conscience to iudge both of my explication and of their accord with the Fathers, to whom the letters shall direct you in order as I haue put them downe. And first your opinion, if it be strip­ped naked, is, that the Eucharist is nothing els reallie but plaine breade and wine. For, relations founded in exteriour deputation onelie, are not reall, and the substance of our Sauiours bodie you say is not at ōce in many places reallie. This supposed; your Opinion is that ^a the thing [Page 407] on the Altar is in Substance the same it was. The Pro­testant O­pinion of the Eucha­rist, by thē hiddē vn­der figura­tiue spea­ches, there by to cozē the vulgar Epist. Cy­rill. ad Ca­los extat gr [...]cè in Bibliothe­ca Impe­rat. that it is ^b not reallie changed by consecration, that the bodie of Christ is ^c not made of blead, nor his blood of wine. that wine it not ^d chan­ged into blood, that it is reallie ^e the same it was before Inuocation. that it is not changed ^f in nature, not changed ^g into the bodie. that no­thing is heere ^h transelemented into the bodie and blood of Christ. nothing ⁱ conuerted into the veritie of his flesh. that our Sauiour ma­keth not of breade his bodie, and of wine his blood. I referre the comparison and iudgment to your self, or to any other man, learned or vn­learned; and goe on.

44. Thirdlie out of that which is allreadie said, I may conclude with ease that the Fa­thers thought the substāce of breade ād wine remained not in the Eucharist. For that which is changed, conuerted, transelemented, into an other thing, is no more existent in it selfe: and you haue heard them say that the nature of breade and wine is changed, conuerted, transele­mented, into the body ād blood of Christ: whēce it followes that it is not existent in it selfe. But you shall heare them further affirme that in the formes or accidēts of breade and wine there is not breade ād wine,S. Iren. l. 4. c. 34. but flesh ād blood It is not common breade but Eucharist consisting of two things, the earthlie, the species, and the [Page 408] heauenlie, the Bodie. Let vs giue credit to God euerie where, let vs not oppose against him, though what he saith doth seeme to our sense and to our thinking to be absurd: let his saying master our sēse and our reason. S. Chrys. hom. 83 in Matth. Let vs doe this in all things and es­peciallie in the Mysteries, not regarding alone the things which lie before vs: but holding fast his words for by his words wee cannot be cozened, our sense ¹ may easilie be deceaued his words cannot be vntrue, our sense is often times beguiled. Seeing therefore that our Lord hath said, This is my Bodie, let no staggering or doubt lay hold on vs, but let vs beleeue it, and see it with the eies of our vnderstan­ding: for nothing that is sensible is giuen vnto vs here by Christ, [...]. but, in sensible things indeed, yet All that he giueth, is ² insensible. It is ³ not that which nature made, but that which the blessing hath con­secrated. S. Ambr. de Myst. in c. 9. by the blessing euen nature it selfe is changed. Conceaue it not as bare breade and bare wine, for it is the holie bodie and blood of Christ, for though sense doth suggest this (that it is breade and wine) vnto thee, yet let faith confirme thee, S. Cyrill. Hier. Ca­tech. c. 4. that thou iudge ⁴ not according to the tast, but rather take it as of faith most certaine without doubting the least degree that the bodie and blood is giuen thee. And a little before, VVith assurance let vs receaue the [Page 409] bodie and blood of Christ, for in the ⁵ forme of breade the bodie is giuen to thee, and in the forme of wine the blood &c. Ibid. Knowing and beleeuing most assuredlie that, that which appeareth breade is ⁶ not breade though it seeme so to the tast, but it is the bodie of Christ; and that which appeareth wine, it not wine as the taste doth iudge it to be, Theophil. in c 26. Mat. but the blood of Christ. Breade is transelemented by an ineffa­ble operation although to vs it seeme breade, because wee are weake and haue a horrour to eate rawe flesh, especiallie the flesh of man: for this reason breade appeareth: but in essence and ⁷ substance it is not breade. S. Ansel. in c. 11. pri. Cor. To the ⁸ ex­teriour senses it seemeth to be breade, but knowe by the sense of your vnderstanding that it is my bodie, not another but the same in sub­stance which shall be deliuered to death for your redemption.

45. The Protestant Opinion. our ¹ sense cannot erre. The substance giuen vs is ² sensible breade, it is ³ that which nature made. Of the substance contained vnder those acci­dents iudge ⁴ according to the tast. The Pro­testant ex­plication of this point. a mans bodie is not in the ⁵ forme of breade. it is breade and wine, ⁶ the sense is to be beleeued. in essence and ⁷ sub­stāce it is breade. it is not that bodie which was de­liuered, but that ⁸ which it seemeth to the exteriour [Page 410] sense, that is plaine breade. Compare this to the Fathers words, and iudge of the differēce in this point.

46. Fourthlie, out of the former places of the Fathers it is Further cleere that they be­leeued the bodie of Christ in the Eucharist to be the same bodie which is in heauen, and the same blood which issued out of his side to be in the Chalice. I will adde a place or two more of this.S. Aug. l. 12. cōt. Faust. c. 10. The blood of Christ hath a loude voice on earth when all Nations hauing re­ceaued it do answere Amen. This is the shrill voice of blood, which the blood it selfe doth make out of the ^a mouthes of the faithfull redeemed with the same blood. V. Beda in c. 10 pri. Cor. ex S. Aug. Serm ad Neoph. In the breade you shall receaue that ve­rie ^b thing which did hang vppon the Crosse, and in the Cuppe you shall receaue that which was powered out of the side of Christ. Our Lord doth pa­tientlie sustaine Iudas a diuel, S. Aug. ep. 162. a thiefe, his betrayer: he permitteth him to receaue among the innocent disciples that which the faithfull doe knowe ^c the price of our Redemption. S. Chrys. hom 24 pr. Cor. Ibid. That which is in the Chalice is that which did ^d issue from our Sauiour his side. This bodie the Sages did reuerence in the cribbe: thou seest it not in the cribbe but ^e on the Altar. This mysterie makes the earth to be a hea­uen vnto thee: Ibid. Open heauen gates and looke in, or rather open the gates of the heauen of heauens, and then thou wilt see that which is said to be true. For [Page 411] looke what is there most preciouse, I will shewe it vnto thee ^f heere on earth. For euen as in royall pal­laces the walles and the gilded roofes are not estee­med the most magnificent thing of all, but the roy­all Person seated in his princely throne: so is the kings bodie in heauen. Now this mayest thou see heere on earth. For here I shewe thee not Angells nor Archangells nor heauens, nor the heauen of heauens, but I shewe vnto thee him who is the ve­rie Lord of all those things. Thou perceauest now in what manner thou dost behold heere on earth that thing which is most precious, and most honou­rable of all other, and how thou doest not see it onely but allso doest touch it, and that thou doest not touch it onely but allso doest eate it, and eating of it returnest to thy howse. S. Chrys. de sacerd. l. 6. At the tyme of the Sa­crifice the Angells stand about the Priest, and the whole companie of the celestiall powers doe make a noise, and the place round about the ^g Alter is full of Angelicall quires in honour of him who ^h is there sacrificed. which thing those will beleeue easi­lie who do consider the great Sacrifice which is then donne.

47. The Protestāt opiniō. Blood is not in the ^a mouthes of the faithfull. that ^b thing is not in the forme of breade. Iudas did not ^c receaue the body but onely a peece of breade. That in the Cha­lice was neuer ^d in our Sauiours side. The body which the Sages worshipped is not ō the ^e Al­tar. [Page 412] The bodie of Christ is not ^f heere on earth, nor in the dimensions wee do see, touch, and re­ceaue. Christ is not ^g Sacrificed on the Altar by the Priest. The humanitie of Christ is not on the ^h Altar. Compare it.

48. Fiftly, it being the same bodie which is in heauen, Christ I say being in the Eucha­rist, ād the Fathers professing this: it followeth that he is there allso, in the Eucharist, to be a­dored, and this the Fathers allso did acknow­ledge. you remember what I repeated euen now out of S. Chrysostome: take more out of others. S. Gregorie saith of his sister Gor­gonia.S Greg. Naz. orat. 11. She prostrateth her selfe with faith before the Altar, and with a greate crie calleth on him who is ¹ worshippeed on it, the said Altar. You must obserue heere that S. Gregorie doth not one­ly declare the action of his Sister, but allso the Custome of the primitiue Church, in these words who is worshipped on it, and then you will see that Christians in those dayes did worshippe our Sauiour on the Altar. S. Augustine.S. Aug in [...]sal. 98. Our Sauiour tooke flesh of the vir­gin Marie, ād because he walked heere in that flesh, and hath giuen vs that flesh to be eaten to Salua­tion, and no man eateth that flesh vnles he first adore ² it: behold wee haue found our in what manner such a foote-stoole of our Lords feete (his flesh) may be adored, and how that wee doe [Page 413] not sinne by adoring it, Id. Ep. 120. c. 27. but wee sinne by not ado­ring it. The rich come indeed to the table, they eate and adore, but are not filled, Sainct Ambrose. By the foote stoole vnderstand the earth, S. Ambr. l. 3. de sp. s. c. 12 by the earth the flesh of Christ, which yeauen at this day wee ³ adore in the mysteries, and which the A­postles did adore in our Lord Iesus Christ. Theo­doret.Theodor. Dial 2. The mysticall signes are vnderstood to be that they are made, by consecration, vzt the bodie and blood of Christ: and they are belee­ued and ⁴ adored as being that they are beleeued to be. O most diuine, S. Dionys. Eccl. Hie­rarch. c. 3. De lib ist. autho vide Baron. a. 109. Mart. Delr. Vindic. A­reopagit. Gualt. Chron. c. 28 secu. 1. ver. 1 ād holie Sacrifice open those my­sticall and signifying veiles wherewith thou art couered: shewe thy selfe cleerely vnto vs, and ⁵ re­plenish our spirituall eies with thy singular and reueiled brightnes.

49. The Protestant Opinion ¹ No bodie is worshipped on the Alter the flesh of Christ in the ² Sacrament is not to be adored. It is not to be adored in the ³ Mysteries. the Sacrament is ⁴ not adored. there is no bodie in the Eucharist, or vnder those signes that can heare or ⁵ is to be prayed vnto. Compare.

50. Sixtlie the Fathers say the Bodie of Ie­sus Christ is heere immolated after ā vnbloo­die māner, that this vnbloodie Sacrifice offe­red by the Christiās is in substāce the bodie of Christ, that it is the host which was offered ō the Crosse, and the price of our redemption: [Page 414] which things agree no more to bakers breade then adoration and the rest whereof I haue spoken before, but onelie to the true bodie of Iesus Christ.S. Ignat. Ep ad Smyr. ap. Theod. dial. 3. S. Chrys. or 17. in Ep. Hebr. They, the Simonians and Satur­nians, old Hereticks, admit not Eucharists ^a and Oblations, because they do not confesse the Eucha­rist to be the flesh of our Sauiour which suffered for our sinnes. Wee do still offer the same, not another now, but euer the same, and for this reason the Sa­crifice is one, as being offered in ^b many places it is one bodie not many bodies, Ibid. so allso the sacrifice is one. It is our high Priest who hath offered the hoast which doth cleanse vs, and wee allso now do offerre the same which was then offerred, [...]d. hom. 51. [...] Mat. & [...]o. ad pop [...]ntioch. Cyr. A­ [...]. declar. [...]nat. 11. which cannot be consumed. Let vs heare and tremble, he, Christ, hath put himselfe ^c immolated before vs. wee cele­brate in the Church the holie, quickning and ^d vn­bloodie Sacrifice, beleeuing not that, that which is shewed is the bodie of some common man like vs and his blood, but wee receaue it rather as the life giuing Words owne flesh and blood. [...]onc. Nic [...]ct Vatic. [...]p. de di­ [...]na mens. [...]c testim. [...]oscunt [...]colamp [...]uin. [...]quin. [...]blit. [...]e Bell. l [...]e Sa. [...]. c. 10. In the diuine table let vs not abase our thoughts to consider the breade and cuppe which is set there vppon, but ra­ther erecting our minde and fixing it on high let vs by faith vnderstand that there is present vppon that holie ^e table the lambe of God that taketh away the sinnes of the world, who is offered in Sa­crifice by the Priest without slaughtering. and wee verilie receauing his bodie and blood let vs beleeue [Page 415] that these things are the pledges of our Saluation and resurrection. This hoste doth singularlie pre­serue the soule from eternall damnation. which ho­ste doth repaire vnto vs by mysterie that death of the onely begotten, S. Greg. l. 4 Dial. c. 58. Pro nobis ITERVM in hoc my­sterio sacra Oblationis immolatur. who rising from the deade now dieth not: yet liuing in himselfe immortallie and in­corruptiblie he is againe Sacrificed for vs in this mysterie of the holie Oblation. Hether apper­taines that which S. Augustine writeth of his mother a good Christian woman of the Re­ligion then common, that departing out of this world she desired memorie to be made of her at the Altar, S. Aug. 9. Confes. [...] 13. from ^g whence she knewe the holie Sacrifice to be dispenced wherewith the inditement against vs was blotted out. Then he commen­des her sowle to the praiers of such as reade his Booke. Obserue what and where this thing was. it was the victime or Sacrifice wherewith the ransome was paid for our sinnes; this is not bread I trow, and this was on the Altar and therehence dispenced as you heard from S. Augustines mouth. And there adored in the mysteries as you heard before.Optat. l. 6. Wherevppon wee find the Altar allso called the seate of the body and blood of our Lord. Hether also doth appertaine that which wee finde in Antiqui­tie about offering sacrifice for the deade, which you may reade ar your leisure in others, for I haue ben alreadie to long in this.

[Page 416]51. The Protestant opinion▪ no Euchari­sticall ^a Oblation is to be admitted, it is not the flesh of Christ that suffered for vs. The sacrifice of the bodie of Christ is not offered in ^b many places. Christ is noe more ^c immolated▪ there is no vnbloodie ^d Sacrifice which is the flesh of Christ▪ the lambe of God is not on the ^e Altar, he is not offered in sacrifice by the Priest▪ the Sonne of God is not ^f againe sacrificed for vs▪ the sacrifice is not ^g dispenced from the Alter. Compare.

52. Seauenthly, the Fathers did beleeue that the bodie of our Sauiour was present to our bodies and mouthes when wee receaue the Eu­charist, which is another euident argument that they thought it substātiallie present here on earth where our bodies are; for a thing which is in heauen only cannot be so present. Wee denie not that wee are Spirituallie ioyned vn­to Christ by true faith and sincere Charitie: S. Cyr. Alex l. 10. in Io. c. 13. but that wee haue ¹ no coniunction with him at all ac­cording to the flesh, that verilie wee denie: and af­firme it to be contrarie to the diuine Scriptures. ād, because you are readie to runne to the Incar­nation, it followes a little after. Doth he, Ne­storius, thinke perchance that wee knowe not the force of the mysticall benedictiō, cōsecratiō, which being done in vs doth it not make Iesus Christ to dwell in vs ² corporallie also with the communica­tion [Page 417] of the flesh of Christ? which thing he doth prooue there by Scripture; and after declare with an example.S. Aug. l 2. cont. Adu. Leg. c. 9. Wee receaue with faithfull hart and ³ mouth, the Mediatour of God and man, man Christ Iesus, giuing vs his bodie to be eaten and his blood to be drunke, though it seeme more horrible to eate mās flesh then to kill, and to drinke mans blood then to shed it. S. Leo. serm. 7. de Ieiun. mēs. 7. You ought so to commu­nicate of the holie table that you doubt nothing at all of the truth of the bodie and blood of Christ, for that is receaued with ⁴ the mouth which by faith is beleeued. S. Greg. Dial. l. 4. c. 58. S. Greg. Nyss. orat. Catec. c 37. His blood is powered into the mouthes of the faithfull. Our Sauiour by his flesh entereth into all the faithfull, and mingleth himselfe with their ⁵ bodies, to the end that man being vnited to that which is immortall, may attaine to be made partaker of Incorruption. Wee are made [...] hearers of Christ when wee haue receaued his bodie and blood into ⁶ our mem­bers. S. Cyr. Hi. Catec. 4. So the Fathers, vnderstanding the bodie of Christ indeed to be in those di­mensions, and so to be in our bodie reallie when the Sacrament is in it, and to be receaued with our mouthes. Whereas you denying that he can be reallie here and in heauen too, must gape as wide as heauen if you will receaue the [Page 418] signes and the bodie too with your mouth, for the signes are here, and the bodie and blood according to you are onelie there in that one place.

53. The Protestant Opinion. The flesh of Christ is ¹ not neere vnto our flesh. Christ is not ² in vs corporallie. Christ is not receaued with the ³ mouth, that which is beleeued is neuer ⁴ in the mouth, neuer neerer then heauen is to the earth. the blood of Christ is no where but in heauen▪ it is in no bodies mouth at any tyme. the flesh of Christ is not neere our ⁵ bodies. it is as farre of as heauen is from earth. the bodie of Christ is neuer ⁶ in vs. Compare.

54. That which troubleth you, did not moue the Fathers to discredit the word of God as you doe. His omnipotencie was in the begining of their Creed as it is in ours. Heare what they say of your doubtes. The first. S. Cyr. Hi. Catec. 4 S. Chrys. ho. [...]3. Mat. Sense telles vs it is bread. S. Cyrill. though it seeme breade it is not bread. S. Chrysost. let our Sauiours words master our sense and reason. His words cannot be vntrue, our sense is many tymes deceaued. The second. It is not possible for one to haue his owne bodie in his owne hāds. S. Augustine. In what manner this may be vnder­stood of Dauid (or another pure man) wee cannot finde, S. Aug. in in Psal. 33. conc. 1. but wee finde it fulfilled in Christ, for Christ was caried in his owne hands, when commending [Page 419] his owne verie bodie, he said this is my bodie, for then he caried and held that bodie in his owne hāds. If you did beleeue it were reallie in the Sa­crament as the Fathers did, you would neuer sticke at this nor at any other thing, for all are grounded in the Sacramentall being. The third. Christ could not eate himselfe, the Sa­crament he might and did eate. S. Ierom. He, S. Hieron. Ep. ad He­dib. q. 2. Christ, was the Banquetter and the Feast, the ea­ter and the thing eaten. Wee drinke his bloode, &c. The fourth Christ is ascended,S. Chrys. hom. 2. ad Pop. Ant. therefore his flesh is not here. S. Chrysostom. Christ, both left vs his flesh and ascended hauing it. The fift, the bodie should by this time be all consumed, for many thousands haue receaued it. S. Gre­rie.S. Greg. Nyss. orat. Cat. c. 37. Wee must enquire how it can possibile come to passe that the one onelye bodie of Christ which is allwaies thorough out the world imparted to so ma­ny thousands of the faithfull may be wholie in eue­rie one in particular, and allso, remaine whole and entire in it selfe. His answere. These things he, Christ, bestoweth by transelementing thorough the vertue of benedictiō the nature of those things which appeare of breade and wine into it, his bodie. The sixt. A mans bodie cannot be in that forme. S. Epiphanius. When he Christ, had giuen thankes he said this is my bodie, and blood,S Epipha [...] in Ancora. and yet wee see that it is not of equall bignes nor yet like: for it hath no similitude with the image [Page 420] of that flesh which he tooke vpon him, nor with the Diuinitie it selfe, which cannot be seene, nor with the lineaments and shape of members. For this is of a round figure, ād according to the power insensible, yet he vouchsafed by his grace to say this is my bo­die? and blood: neither may any man refuse to giue credit to his words, The reall Presence a fundamē ­tall point. For he that beleeueth it not to be true, falleth altogeather from grace and sal­uation.

55. Being here come to the end of this Chapter, I wish you now to consider how vnpossible a thing it is for you to make it eui­dent that Antiquitie was with you, against vs, and to make such as haue witte and learning to beleeue it. That which wee beleeue, wee finde in the Fathers, and the iudgment be­longes not to you or me but to the Church, which if the cause were obscure, by the di­uine Assistance promised and present to her could determine it; but this cause is cleere, the Fathers haue giuen as faire e­uidence as wee could wish: Wee cannot yet expresse our meaning better then they haue donne. It is not common bread, it is not breade, it is not that which nature made, The Fa­thers. breade is made the bodie of Christ, that in the Sacrament is flesh, it is the flesh of Christ, made of bread: the nature is changed, nature it selfe is changed, it is changed by Gods omnipotencie, it is transelemented. The senses [Page 421] may be deceaued, beleeue thē not, beleeue the words of Christ. It is not breade though the tast esteeme it so, it is changed not in shape but in nature: it is the flesh which suffered for vs, that which did hange vppon the crosse, the price of our redemption. It is the Lord of Angells, he is heere on earth, and thou receauest him. He is sacrificed on the Altar: the Sonne of God is againe sacrificed for vs: the Lābe that taketh away the sinnes of the world, is offered in sacrifice by Priests, without slaughtering. Wee of­fer an vnbloody sacrifice in the Church, it is offered euery where, it is the same which Christ offered. The victime is dispenced from the Altar, wee doe eate the lambe entire, Christ he is the feast, the Angells tremble when they behold that wherwith wee are fed. Christ, is worshipped on the Altar, wee adore the flesh of Christ in the mysteries, the mysticall si­gnes are adored, as beīg that they are beleeued to be. That in the Chalice is not wine, it is blood, it is that which did issue out of the side of our Sauiour. VVee drinke blood, wee drinke blood with our mouthes, it is powered into our mouthes, that which faith belee­ueth the same wee receaue with our mouth. wee re­ceaue the bodie and blood of Iesus Christ with our mouth into our bodies, into our members. So the Fathers. Our B. Sauiour. This is my body, this is my blood. I conclude with S. Hilarie.S. Hilar. l. 2 de Trinit. There is no place left of doubting of the truth of the flesh and blood for now both by our Sauiours profession, [Page 422] and our beleefe, it is trulie flesh and truelie blood. And these being receaued and drunke do bringe to passe that wee be in Christ, and CHRIST IN VS.

THE EIGTH CHAPTER. Of Transubstantiation.

56. IN the Councell of Trent is defined the conuersion of breade and wine into the bodie and blood of Christ, which conuersion is there and in the Lateran Councell termed by a proper name transubstantiation. To these Councells and to the Aunciēt Fathers aboue cited, you oppose a fewe obscure sentences, One out of an Epistle of one Iohn of Constā ­tinople, falslie attributed to S. Chrysostome. Another out of one Gelasius, whom to make your argument seeme the stronger you stile Pope, but falslie as Baronius and others haue demonstrated against your Caluin. The third out of Theodoret a knowne Aduersarie of your cause.

Ep. ad Caes. Mon.57. The first. Chrysostome saith the nature of the breade remaines. Answere. It is false, sainct Chrysostome saith expreslie it is changed, as you shall heare anon. The Epistle which you cite is a refutation of Eutichianisme, which [Page 423] beganne many yeares after S. Chrysostome was deade,Chrysosto­mus vide­tur trāsub­stantiationō confirmare, nam ita scrible, mō vidos panē num vinū: num sicut reliqui tibi in secessum vadunt: absit, nec sic cogites nam sicut cera &c. Mag­deb cent. 5. c. 4. col. 517. the Author of it is also against you, for he saith in the same place that there are not in the Sacrament of the Eucharist two bodies but one, and that one the bodie of the sōne of God. This man you see was not yours in this point; his doctrine take it all, is not currāt among you; for if there be in the Eucharist onlie One bodie, and this One, the bodie of the sonne of God, then breade in substance is not there, because the bodie of Christ, and natu­rall breade be not one and the same bodie. by the nature he meaneth the proprietie or na­turall qualitie of the breade, which is allso cal­led the nature, and this doth remaine.

58. The second. Gelasius saith,De Duab. naturis. the substance or nature of breade doth not leaue to be. Answere. The meaning of this man is, that it is not an­nihilated, but the substance is turned into ano­ther thing: and so, as it remaines not in it selfe (for it is turned) but in the proprietie or pro­per accidents, tast, colour &c. All this the same Author teacheth in the verie same place in these words, they (the substance of breade and wine) do passe into a Diuine substance the holie Ghost effecting it; yet remaining in the proprietie of their nature. wherefore this mā whosoeuer he be, is noe Protestāt in this, for he that holds the substance of breade and wine to be con­uerted [Page 424] by the power of God, into a Diuine substance the bodie and blood of Christ, is no meere Figurist nor of your Schoole: but this Author did old it, as you finde in his owne words, therefore he was not a Protestant as you are.

Theodor. Dial. 1. [...], manent enim in prioris substantiae & figura & forma. or, manent enim in riri es­entia &c. Idem Dial 2 Idem trans­substantia­tionem vi­detur [...]apere quod Theo­doretusscri­bit sicut er­go Symbola &c post in­nocationem59. The third. Theodoret saith our Sauiour deli­uering the Sacramēt called his bodie breade, ād that which is in the Cuppe he called his blood: he chāged the names, ād gaue his bodie the name which belonged to the signe, and to the signe the name which belonged to his bodie. Answere. Reade further and you meete the solution of your difficultie. The reason of the change of names was because he would haue such as partake the diuine sacraments not to heede the nature of those things which are seene (the signes) but for the change of names to beleeue allso the change that is made hy grace. You replie out of another place, the mysticall signes after consecration depart not from their nature, but abide still in their former substance and figure and forme and may be seene and touched as before. Answere. It is true that the signes are not changed; for those are Accidents, those re­maine: but the substance whithin the signes or Accidents is changed. The things are chā ­ged by reason of that which is interiour and within, they are not changed by reason of that which is exteriour and without exposed [Page 425] to the sense.mutantur & alia fiū. &c. Magd. cent. 5. co. 517. Ibidem. [...] And Theodoret proceeding saith, they are vnderstood to be that they are made, (that is, the bodie and blood of Christ) and are beleeued and adored as beīg the things they are beleeued to be. No man beleeues that breade is flesh. No man doth beleeue these proposi­tions to be true, breade is a mās bodie, breade is flesh; flesh is breade. No mā adoreth breade. Now the Mysteries, Theodoret saith, are ado­red as being indeed the things which they are be­leeued to be. he doth not say, they are belee­ued onelie to be, but they allso are that which they are beleeued to be: and so are, that they may be and are adored. So then Theodo­ret is no Figurist nor Protestant in this point.

60. The fourth Argument is taken out of Scripture. Our Sauiour tooke breade there­fore he gaue breade. Answere.Matt. 26. It doth not follow. because after he tooke it he changed it by consecration into his bodie, and then it was not breade but flesh in the shape and forme of breade. it was heauenlie breade, the breade of life, after consecration: but after cō ­secratiō it was not bakers breade. that he gaue, was the same with that he tooke, in outward shape: but the interiour substance was not the same.

61. I haue turned the rest of your forces [Page 426] against your felfe; I will now turne this allso, and make my first argument for the change of breade into the bodie and wine into blood, (which change or conuersion we call tran­substantiation) out of this place of Scripture, thus. Before consecration the thing in the di­mensions and shape of breade was breade, after consecration the thing in those dimen­sions was the bodie of Christ: This is my bodie. therefore it was changed.Matt. 26. Hoc quidem sapè dixi­mus, quod nunc quo­que repetā retineri re­ipsa nō posse [...] in his Chri­sti verbis, hoc est cor­pus meum, quin trans­substantia­tio Papisti­ca statua­tur. Beza de caena. cont. west­phal. vol. 1 tr. 6. Gene. 1582. The same argumēt I make of the cuppe; for, if blood hath succee­ded vnto wine, there is a change made, but after consecratiō blood hath succeeded vnto wine, for it is blood after consecration, This is my blood; and before it was not blood but wine.

62. A second argument I make out of the iudgment of the Fathers and the Church Primitiue. If the Fathers did beleeue that be­fore consecration the things proposed were breade ād wine, ād that after consecratiō there was not cōmon breade ād wine, but the bodie and blood of Christ, then did those Fathers beleeue an inward substantiall change in those formes; for this comes not to passe without a change, as he who beleeues the drinke in the cuppe to be water when it is brought to the table, and afterwards to be wine and nor water, doth acknowledge a change; for were [Page 427] there no mutation it would be still as it was at first, water and not wine. But the Fathers did beleeue that those things before conse­cration were breade and wine, as you also do confesse, and that after consecration there was not breade and wine in those formes, but the bodie and blood of Christ, as I haue declared in the former Chapter; therefore thy belee­ued an inward change.

63. Thirdlie the Fathers in expresse termes do teach this change or conuersion which wee speake. of I haue cited them before.S. Amb. d [...] Myst. init c. 9. Ibid. Id. l. 4. de Sacr. c. 4. S. Ambrose. It is not that which nature made, but that which the blessing hath consecrated. The power of consecration is greater then the power of nature, for by consecration the verie nature it selfe is chā ­ged. This breade is breade before the Sacramentall words, but when consecration comes, of breade it is made the flesh of Christ. S. Chrysostome.S. Chrys. hom. de Euch. in Encoen. As waxe ioyned with fire is likened vnto it so as no­thing of the substance of it remaineth, nothing a­boundeth, so here conceaue the mysteries to be con­sumed with the substance of the bodie of Christ. The things set before vs are not the workes of hu­mane power: wee hold but the place of Ministers, Idem hom 83 in Mat it he Christ. who doth sanctifie and change these things. S. Cyrill of Ierusalem.S. Cyr. Hier. Catech. 1. The breade and wine of the Eucharist before the sacred inuocation of the adored Trinitie were simple breade and wine, [Page 428] but the inuocation being once donne the breade in­deade is made the bodie of Christ, and the wine his blood. Id. Catech 3. He, Christ, once changed water into wine, ād is he not worthie to be beleeued of vs that he hath changed wine into blood? that which appeareth bread is not breade but the bodie of Christ. Id. Cat. 4. S. Gauden. in Ex. tr. 2 Sainct Gaudentius Bisshop of Brixia. The Lord and Creator of Natures that of earth made breade, a­gaine (because he can doe it and hath promised to doe it) of breade makes his owne bodie: and he that of water made wine, now of wine hath made his bloode. S. Cyr. A­lex. Ep. ad Calosyr. S. Cyrill of Alexandria. That wee should not feele horrour to see flesh and blood on the sacred Altars, God condescending to our frailtie doth flowe into the things offered the power of life: con­uerting them into the veritie of his owne flesh, to the end the bodie of life be foūd as a certaine quick­ning seed in vs. S. Greg. Nyss. orat. Catec. c. 37 S. Gregorie Nissen. I do rightlie and with good reasō beleeue that breade being san­ctified by Gods word, is changed into the bodie of God the word. The same Father saith that our Sauiour did transelement the nature of bread in­to his bodie, Ibid. and of wine into his blood. I haue ci­ted more to this purpose in the former Chap­ter. This doth abundantlie prooue Antiquitie to haue beleeued the change of breade and wine into the bodie and blood of Christ, which change in regard it is of one whole Substance into another Substance vnder the same Accidents, vnder which first the one is [Page 429] and then the other; wee call Transubstantia­tiō. These witnesses whose testimonie I haue here produced were eminent men in the Church, they were knowne Saincts in the communion of the Christian world, and by them wee knowe the minde of the rest in their communion.

64. Fourthlie wee haue this change decla­red by the Church in generall Councells, in the greate Laterane Councell in the tyme of Innocentius the third.Conc. Lat. c. 3. Con. Flor. in Decreto Eug. quod decretum factū esse in publica Synodali sessione patet ex fi­ne. confer cum fine Concilij, dum hac gerebantur &c. Conc. Trid sess. 13. ean. 2. Againe in the Coūcell of Florence, and last of all at Trent. If you should heere obiect that such a conuersion were not possible, I would send you backe a­gaine to S. Gregorie, to learne of him the pos­sibilitie. Nature can turne breade into flesh, wine into blood, why then cannot God? It is easier to make flesh of some thing then of no­thing. God made the world of nothing. It is easier to change then to create. Our Sauiour turned water into wine, Aaron his rod was turned into a serpent, and the same power could turne the serpent againe into a rod. Gods power is infinite, and therefore finds no difficultie. he cā turne wine into blood,Vt sint qua erant & in aliud com­mutencuae. S. Amb. 4. Sac c. 4. ād blood agaīe if he list into wine, or into anie o­ther substāce. The obiect of his power is all that includes not contradiction in it selfe, and these things wee speake of, include none.

THE NINETH CHAPTER. The sacrifice of the Masse.

65. THe change of bread into flesh and wine into blood being once admitted, there is no difficultie in admitting vnbloodie sacrifice, because, to induce by consecration the bodie of a victime into the forme or shape of breade and the blood of the same victime into the shape or species of wine in acknowledgment of Gods soueraignetie and dominion of life and death, is to Sacrifice this victime or hoste vnbloodilie. And in the Masse this is dōne: for by consecration the bodie of Iesus Christ, the lābe of God that taketh away the sinne of the world is induced into the forme or species of brea­de, [...]0. 1. and his blood into the species of wine, the substance of breade being turned into the bo­die, and the substance of wine into blood, and this in attestation and acknowledgment of the soueraignetie of allmightie God, and of our dependance on him for being, life and all things els that wee haue, naturall or superna­turall. And this by the ordination and institu­tiō of God also, [...]. 1. c. vlt. as I declared in the first booke Wherefore this Lambe of God is vnbloodie Sa­crificed in the Masle.

[Page 431]66. This sacrifice is a representation of that bloodie Sacrifice of the Crosse,Christi be­nedictione, panis fit corpus eius non signifi­catiuè tan­tū, sed etiā substantiuè neque enim ab hoc Sa­cramento figuram omnino ex­cludimus neque eam solam ad­mittimus. Veritas est quia Chri­sti corpus est, figura est quia immolatur quod incor­ruptibile habetur. S. Ansel. l. de di. offic. and yet includes the same victime too. It is a figure if you will, of that bloodie Sacrifice, and yet reallie hath in it the same flesh and blood that was there. It is a figure and representeth, by reason of the exteriour forme: the substance couered with this forme: is the same. The second person, the sonne of God is said by S. Paul to be the bright­nes of his Fathers glorie and figure of his substance and yet his substance or essence is the verie same which the Father hath, they being but one God, and therefore hauing but one Dei­tie, though they be personallie distinct.

67. Your argument against the Sacrifice of the Masse, is out of S. Paul affirming, all with one oblation to be consūmate, and that Christ was offered once. Answere. That is true which S. Paul doth say: but you must not exclude that which the Scripture deliuereth also in other places. I tould you in the first booke that in the Christiā Church a cleane oblation was to be offered to God in all places, That text, cannot be vnderstood of your workes, they are vn­pure, vglie; nor of the Sacrifice of the Crosse, that was not offered in all places but in one o­nelie. It is also cleere as there I noted, that our Sauiour did offerre at his last supper an vn­bloodie propitiatorie Sacrifice, and commāded [Page 432] the Church to frequent it. Wherefore of ne­cessitie you must admit the distinction of bloodie and vnbloodie Sacrifice, the one, offered on the Crosse at Hierusalem, onelie once for the redemption of mankinde▪ the other, of­fered first before the passion at the last supper: and since frequented in all. Nations, for the application of the bloodie Sacrifice of the Crosse S. Paul doth speake of the bloodie Sa­crifice:Heb. 7. v. 23.27.9.25.26.10. v. 10. and this you shall finde, not onely by the generall scope of that Epistle, but also by the circumstances of euerie text which you or your fellowes alleadge against vs out of it. the bloodie Sacrifice was offered onelie ōce, the vnbloodie is repeated oft. The one did consummate all by way of Redemption. The other was instituted for Application.

68. Next you say, a liuing thing if it be Sa­crificed must be killed, for so victimes were sacrificed heeretofore. Answere. If the liuing thing be sacrificed in the forme and species of a liuing thing, you say well; such things were killed. If it be not sacrificed in the forme of a liuing thing, but in the forme of another thing that doth not liue, as in the forme of breade and wine, thē killing is not necessarie; Consecration inducing the bodie vnder one forme: and the blood vnder another, is sufficient. This change is sufficient, both for the sub­stance [Page 433] of a Sacrifice, and for the representa­tion of the bloodie death of Christ.

69. The victime being thus immolated, it is then eaten by the Prieste and by the commu­nicantes, that verie flesh which did hange vppon the Crosse, the same now the Church doth eate. It doth eate this victime immola­ted after this vnbloodie manner by the Priest on the Altar, as I could you but now, and be­fore you heard the same from Antiquitie. they eate the lambe of God with their mou­thes,Ep. ad He­dib. Origen. in d. loca E­uāg. hom. 5 they receaue him entire, each receaues him all. Iesus Christ is the feast as S. Ierom saith our Lord and Master comes into our bodies, there more freelie to communicate himselfe vnto our sowles. Wee doe nor receaue breade from a mans hand, but rather fire from a Sera­phim as Saint Iohn Chrysostome doth speake sometime. Wee doe receiue vnder those veiles of breade the naturall sonne of God to whom all hartes are open, before whom the powers of heauen do tremble, and with whō the Father and the holie Ghost are euer inse­perablie, as subsisting in one and the same Deitie.

70. Of comunion in both kinds I haue spoken before. In each kinde is the bodie and the blood, though diuerslie.Concomi­tancie. The question is whether there be a diuine precept for the laitie [Page 434] to receaue in both kinds. The Church knowes of none.l. 1. c. 4. Your argument I haue ans­weared. If you dispute anie more do not mi­stake the state of the question. It is not of the custome of the Primitiue Church, nor of an Ecclesiasticall precept onelie; nor how the Priest must communicate when he doth say Masse. No, these are other questions which you finde allso disputed and declared in our deuines: but the question is whether there be a diuine precept obliging the laitie to receaue in both kindes. The Church hath resolued that there is none.

71. Touching the effect of the Sacrament, you are to regarde that you doe not cōfound it with the substance or essence. Spirituall con­iunction and vnion is an effect of it. The Sa­crament is before this vnion. Christ is there, on the Altar, and in the Priests hands as you haue heard from Antiquitie, and this before it ^* [Page 435] comes to the communicants mouth. Yea some tymes he is receaued vnworthilie as you may reade in S. Paul:1. Cor. 11. but those receauers haue not the spirituall effect and coniunction. they receaue the bodie into their bodies: they receaue not grace into their sowles from this bodie; because they receaue it vnworthilie, and not as the bodie of Christ (a thing most holie by reason of the vniō to the diuine per­son) ought to be receaued.

72. As for signes, some doe signifie things present; some things absent. The Eucharist is a Sacrament and therefore a signe. it is a signe of grace, and a signe of the bodie of Christ present. So the forme doth signifie, This is my [Page 436] bodie, and so the species vnder these words. doe signifie to good Christians, to all those that beleeue Iesus Christ.S. Aug. enarrat. ps. 3. & cont. Adimant. c. 12. This mysterie is allso a representation of the bloodie passion as I said before, it is a figure of that sacrifice, yet a Sa­crifice too. The word of God is the figure of the Fathers substance, and yet he is a diuine person too. The same thing may haue diuers attributes, one not excluding another. the Eucharist is a signe, a representation, an oblation, a Sacrifice, and in it are reallie the bodie and blood of Christ, yea Christ him­selfe is there. All these doe consist, one doth not exclude the other.

73. Lastlie to conclude this matter, I wish you to reflect, that opposing the Masse, as you doe, you oppose all the Chri­stian world that was before Luther. This I will declare brieflie.In Antio­che. Alexādria. Ierusalem. Aethiopia Chaldaea. East India. First, it is manifest that all knowne Christian Churches in the age before Luther did frequent the Masse. In all Europe, in all parts of Asia, and Africke where anie Christians were. The Christians in the partes latelie discouered, all were found to frequent the Masse; Allso the Nestorians, and Eutichians in Aegypt: the Russians, Muscouites, and Grecians, all frequent the Masse. Which is an euident argument they [Page 437] had it by tradition from the Apostles,Both those who knewe nothing of the Bishop of Rome: and those who knew him but o­baied him not all a­greed in the substā ­ce of the Masse or vnbloody Sacrifice. who taught the world. for such vniformitie and consent of so many Nations, so dispersed (and some to the rest wholie vnknowne) in so darke a Mysterie as this is, could not be from any naturall cause. Secōdlie, all these Churches that is, all the knowne Churches in the world, did beleeue they were thus to doe by the institution of Iesus Christ, and the Tradi­tion of the Apostles. And among these the true Church was one, because that is euer vi­sible by her profession as I haue prooued. Whence it followeth that the frequenting of Masse is approoued by the Spirit of the true Church,S. Aug. l. 4. de bapt. c. 6 and consequentlie it cannot be an ertour. Thirdlie, that custome which men euen then looking vpwards did not see instituted by those which were later then the Apostles, is well belee­ued to haue beene deliuered, by the Apostles, saith S. Augustine. But all these Churches, Infinite eies looking vpwards could not see the Insti­tution of vnbloodie Sacrifice or Masse, later then the Apostles, which is manifest, because they all receaued it as diuine and Apostolicall Therefore by S. Augustines rule it is well be­leeued so to be.

74. For the later ages you easilie admitte they wēt to Masse, and that they beleeued an Vnbloodie Sacrifice; for the Primitiue Church [Page 438] you are yet some what doubtfull it seemes what to doe.Missa abo­minatio in calice aureo propin [...]a omnes reges terra & po­pulos a sū ­mo vsque ad nouissi­mum sic inebriauit, vt proram & puppim sua salutis in hac vna voragine statuerint Cal. 4. Inst. c. 18. Let me helpe you forward to resolue vppon the truth. That vnbloody Sacri­fice in the formes of breade and wine, (which wee call the Masse) was frequented by the Primi­tiue Church I prooue, first by the consent of all Christian Churches euer since, ād by their liturgies which (as all these Churches doe testifie) were deliuered them from the Church Primitiue: Among these, haue beene infinite wise men, and greate Schollers as in another place I did argue. They had better meanes to know the practise of the Primitiue Church then wee haue, being neerer and some of them immediate. The matter, as frequenta­tion of the Masse, and their exteriour profes­sion of their faith touching these things was subiect to the sēse. And amōg these was the ca­tholique Church the spouse of Iesus Christ hauing the Assistance of the holie Ghost to discerne the true worshippe of allmightie God. The testimonie of all these, is sufficient to make vs beleeue that the Primitiue Church went to Masse, or no testimonie of men is suf­ficient in any cause.

75. I goe neerer. In the begining of the se­uenth age liued Isidorus,S. Isid. l. 1. Offic. c. 15. plura c. 18. Bisshoppe of Ciuil and a Sainct, and he saith the order of Masse or prayers, whereby SacrificeS offered vnto God are [Page 439] consecrated, was first instituted by S. Peeter, the celebration whereof (saith he) THE WHOLE VVORLD doth performe after one and the same manner. All this world sure had meanes to knowe what their Fathers in the age before had donne, better then wee: they had their books, they had conuersed with manie of thē. let vs ascende. In the sixt Age, wee haue the Testimony of seuerallConcil. Agath. cap 470 Gerū den. cap. 1 Aurelian. [...] 28. Turo­nens. 2 cap 3. & 4. Constātin act. 1. citat. Ga [...]ret. Co. Gualt. S. Greg. Magn. 4. Dial. c. 58 & Hom. 37. in Euā S. Aug. l. 1 [...] de Ciuit. c 22. Councells celebrated in many Nations, wherein there is such ex­presse mention of the Masse, as no tergiuersa­tion can suffice. But omitting that, as allso the testimony of Remigius, Cassiodorus, Fulgen­tius, and others of that time, I content my self with the place before cited, out of S. Gregorie because he was in communion with all the world. Christ, liuing himself immortallie is A­GAINE SACRIFICED FOR VS, in this Mysterie of the holie oblation. In the begining of the sift age liued S. Augustine. whē Melchise­dech did blesse Abraham, there first appeared the Sacrifice which is offered now to God by Christians in ALL THE WORLD. wee do not erect Al­tars wherein to sacrifice to Martyrs, Idem l. 22 c. 10. but wee doe offer sacrifice to their God and ours. The Sacrifice it self is the bodie of Christ. And to the Iewes. Open your eies at leingth, Ibid. and see frō the east to the west, not in one place as it was appointed you, but [Page 186] in EVERIE PLACE offered the Sacrifice of the Christians, Idem orat cont. Iud. c 9.10.6. vide eundem de Ciuit. l. 17. c. 17. & l. 18. c. 35. S. Ierom. adu. Vigi­lant. c. 3. vi­de S. Amb. ad Ps. 38. not to what God soeuer, but to the God of Israel who foretold it. In the fourth age liued S. Ierome. Ill therefore doth the Bysshop of Rome, who ouer the venerable bones (base dust according to thee Vigilantius) of deade men, Peeter and Paul, doth offer Sacrifice: and thinks their tombes to be Altars; and this, the Bisshops, not of one towne onelie, but of ALL THE WORLD doe, who contemning Vigilantius, enter into the Churches of the deade. And Eusebius Bisshop of Caesarea; speaking of those words of the Psalmist, thou hast prepared a table in my sight &c. He doth saith he,Euseb. Cae­sar. De­monstr. Euang. l. 1. c. 10. in this openlie signifie the mysticall vnction and horrour-bringing Sacrifices of the table of Christ, wherein operating, wee are taught to offer VNBLOODIE and reasonable, and sweete VICTIMES in our whole life to the most high God by his most eminent Priest of all. And a little after vppon a place of Esaie, they shall drinke wine &c. Ibid. He doth prophecie to the Gentiles, saith he, the ioy of wine, signifying therein, somewhat obscurelie, the mysterie of the newe Testament, BY CHRIST instituted, Idem orat. de L [...]d. Constant which at this daie verilie IS OPENLIE celebrated in ALL NATIONS. The same man in his Oration in the com­mendation of Constantine, tells of Churches, Altars, Vide Cyp. l. 2. Ep. 3. and sacrifices, in the whole world. In the begining of the third age Sainct Cyprian [Page 441] did liue, who saith,S. Cypr. lib 1. ep. 9. all that are honoured with diuine Priesthood, and placed in Clericall ministe­rie ought not to serue but the Altar, and Sacrifices, and to follow their prayers and deuotions. Our Lord ād God Iesus Christ is himself the most high Priest of God the Father, Idem lib. [...] ep. 3. and he first of all hath of­fered SACRIFICE to God the Father, and hath commaunded THE SAME to be donne, for a commemoration of him. Tertullian,Tertall. l. ad Scapul. c. 2. S. Iren. l. 4. adu. Haere. c. 32. wee doe offer Sacrifice, for the saftie of the Emperour to our God and his. In the second age liued Ireneus and Iustinus both Saincts, the one saith He, Christ, tooke that breade which is of the creature and gaue thankes saying, this is my bodie: and likewise he cō ­fessed the Chalice which is of the creature which is according vnto vs to be his blood: ād taught the new oblation of the new testament, which the Church RECEAVING FROM THE APOSTLES doth offer to god in ALL THE WORLD. S. Iustin. Dial. cum Tryphone The other, Euen then he, Malichias, foretold of our Sacrifices of Gentiles, which are offered IN E­VERIE PLACE, that is, of the breade of the Eucharist, and the cuppe likewise of the Eucharist &c. Ibid. God preuenting doth wittnes all those to be gratefull vnto him who offer thorough his name the sacrifices which Iesus Christ deliuered to be donne, that is in the Eucharist of breade and the Chalice, which are donne by Christians IN EVE­RIE PLACE.

[Page 442]76. And heere I name againe the Liturgies of the Churches of Rome, of Alexādria, of Ieru­salem, and of Aethiopia; wherein is euident ac­knowledgmēt of this Vnbloodie Sacrifice in forme of breade and wine whereof I speake: in so much that all these Liturgies, and general­lie the Liturgies of all knowne Christian Churches that euer yet were of anie note in the world, consent and agree heerein. If you denie these were auncient, I bringe against you all these Churches, who professe and be­leeue to haue receaued them from hand to hand euen from the Apostles. Thus other bookes haue beene deliuered vnto vs from Antiquitie. And this Tradition must haue e­quall force in the deliuering of these bookes. I adde further that all Churches cannot erre in tradition of Bookes, otherwise you could neither be certaine of anie worke of anie Fa­ther as of S. Augustine, S. Ierom &c. nor of anie part of the Bible, since therefore all knowne Churches agree in the receipt of the Liturgie from the Apostles, you must be­leeue it; or else with the same pretense you may refuse the Bible too.

77. Next I name the Apostles who taught a propitiatorie Vnbloodie Sacrifice in forme of breade and wine: and did also say Masse. Our B. Sauiour also at his last supper did offer this [Page 443] die Sacrifice, [...]. Sacrifican­tibus autem illis domino Act. 13. v. 2. vert Eras. remember what I ci­ted but now out of S. Ireneus. The Litur­gies of S. Peeter. S. Iames S. Matthew, and Sainct Mark are yet extant. as I haue declared by the Gospell in the first booke; and the thing is so cleere, that you cannot auoide it if you take the words of Scripture in their proper sense, as the Church hath euer donne. So well is the Masse grounded for which wee suffer now. In the Masse you are to distinguish the sub­stance of the sacrifice; oblation, consecration and the consumption of the sacred hoast, or eating of the victime in this vnbloodie forme by the Priest: from the Epistle, Gospell, pray­ers, ceremonies &c. the first was euer since, and euerie where the same: the second, not. names of Saincts, prayers, ceremonies, might be and yet may be changed by the Church.

78. To all this I adde further, the te­stimonie of the holie Ghost, the Spirit of Truth and Interpreter of Gods word: for, that sense wherein the Catholique Church spred ouer the world, doth and euer did from the begining vniuersallie consent, is the sense of the Spiritte of the Catholique Church and of the holie Ghost himselfe. And in this sense of vnbloodie exteriour Sacrifice in forme of breade and wine the catholique church diffused thorough the whole world doth and euer did vniuersallie consent, as I haue sufficientlie declared.

76. Lastlie taking the Christian Church [Page 444] thus beleeuing and practizing, and compa­ring it to the Prophecies, I confound the Iewes too and make an in euitable demōstra­tion that the Catholique Church in com­munion of all Nations, thus offering a cleane Oblation to God EVERIE WHERE, is the true Church of God: and shake those people of with that of Malachie. My will is not in you saith the Lord of hosts, and guifte I wil not receaue at your hand: Mal. 1. v. 10 11. for, from the rising of the Sunne euen to the going downe my name is greate among the GENTILES, and IN EVERIE PLACE there is Sacrificing, and there is offe­red to my name a CLEANE OBLATION because my name is greate AMONGE THE GENTILES, saith the Lord of Hosts.

THE TENTH CHAPTER. Tradition.

80. BEing not able with your sillie Argu­ments to driue vs from the Masse, you growe desperate, and runne foolishlie into the mouth of a Canon. It was declared at Nice, and since againe at Trent,Conc. Ni­cen 2. act. 7. Conc. Tr. sess. 4. that Tradition is to be admitted. without it, you can knowe no­thing in diuine matters; because it must reach you the Scriptures, wherein you pretend to groūd your selfe. Yet, because it doth withall [Page 445] offer more then you are willing to receaue, you speake against it. I haue spoken of it suffi­cientlie in the first and third bookes, but since you repeate your argument I will resume also part of my discourse.

8s. The doctrine of Tradition is grounded in the Scripture.2. Thess. 2. v. 15. Hold and obserue the Tradi­tions which you haue learned, either by word of mouth or by our letter. heere are distinguished as you see plainlie, two waies of deliuering the sacred truth and instruction, one is by writing, the other by word of mouth, and it is to be kept and obserued (if the Apostle may be iudge in the matter) whether it be deliue­red the one way or the other. The same in another place allso he doth teach writing vn­to Timothie thus,2 Tim. 2. v 2. The things which thou hast heard of me by manie wittnesses commend vnto faithfull men which shall be fitte to teach others allso. This is the care the Apostle did take that what he had said might be conuaied vnto Po­steritie from hād to hand, commend vnto them saith he which shall be fitte (he doth not say to write but) to teach these thīgs which thou hast heard of me, he doth not say which thou hast reade, but heard, and that openlie by manie witt­nesses: this doctrine taught by word of mouth, is to be conserued by teaching others. and this is the sacred depositum, where of he had spokē [Page 446] in the former chapter, referring the good keeping thereof to the assistance of the holy Ghost, 2. Tim. 1. v 14. keepe the good depositum by the holie Ghost which dwelleth in vs. Which is conformable to our Sauiours promise in S. Iohn, He (the holie Ghost) shall teach you all things and suggest vnto you all things whatsoeuer I shall saie vnto you. He saith not, whatsoeuer shall be written; but whatsoeuer I shall saie. and God the Father in his promise to the Church,Isa. 59. v. 21 My words that I haue putte in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth &c. which words are more generall, then if he had said thus: the Scripture shall neuer be out of thy eies, or thou shalt be euer reading that which I will cause to be writtē: or it shall neuer out of the booke whereinsoeuer I shall write it. he saith not so, but, my words shall not out of thy mouth, and out of the mouth of thy seed, and out of the mouth of the seede of thy seede, from hence forth for euer. a cleere testimonie of the perpetuitie of sa­cred doctrine euer deliuered by word of mouth, which is the thing wee call Tradition.

82. Heerevppon Sainct Ireneus a man neere vnto the Apostles tyme, [...] Iren. l. 3. [...]du. Haeres. [...]. 2.3.4. and well seene in their doctrine, doth say that the Tradition in the Church receaued from the Apostles hath [Page 447] beene kept by the Succession of Bisshops, that the Apostles laid vp in the Church as in a rich deposi­torie all truth: and that therefore for resolution of controuersies recourse is to be made vnto the most auncient Churches. So likewise Tertullian, one allso of those who were neere vnto the Apostles tyme, doth tell vs that in disputation with Heretiques wee are not to appeale vnto the Scripture, Tertull. Praesc. c. 19. because Heretiques will inter­prete as they list, but that wee must inquire where the faith, where the Church is, from whom, by whom, when, and to whom, the discipline hath beene deliuered whereby Christians are made: for where it shall appeale that the truth of disci­pline and Christian faith is, there will be the truth of the Scriptures, and of Expositions, and of all Christian Traditions. wee must vse Tradition, S. Epiphan Haeres 61. Vide eun­dem in haeresi 55. & 69. saith S. Epiphanius, because all things cannot be had out of diuine scripture: wherefore the holie A­postles haue deliuered some things by scriptures, and some things by Tradition. Many things, saith Sainct Augustine, are not found in the wri­tings of the Apostles, nor in the constitutions of later Councells, which notwithstanding are beleeued to haue bene deliuered and commended by them (the Apostles) because by the vni­uersall Church they are obserued. S. August. l. 2. Bapt c. Donat. c. 7. The doctrines which are obserued and taught in the Church wee haue partlie by the written word, and partlie [Page 448] wee haue had them brought vnto vs by Apostoli­call tradition, S. Basil. l. de sp. s. c. 27. Ib. c. 29. S. Chrys. in 2. Thess. [...]. saith S. Basil, and in another place I esteeme it Apostolicall to perseuer in vnwritten traditions. It is manifest saith S. Iohn Chryso­stome, that the Apostles deliuered not all by letters but many things without writing, and these, the vnwritten, are as worthie to be beleeued as those other deliuered by writing. Wherefore wee thinke the Churches tradition worthie of beleefe: it is a tra­dition, Vincent. Lirin. c. 1. & 2. looke no more. To conclude, Vincentius Lirinensis in his booke of the Prophane No­ueltie of Heresies, doth tell that he learned of wise and holie men this way to perseuer in the true faith, to fence it as he saith with the au­thoritie of the diuine lawe and with the tradition of the Catholique Church. And obiecting presen­tlie to him selfe, as if Ecclesiasticall authoritie were not necessarie because of the sufficiencie of the Scriptures he answeares, that it is ne­cessarie because, all men vnderstand not the Scrip­ture the same way because of the depth of it, which he declares largelie in old Heretiques, and the same wee see in the moderne by expe­rience, and then concludes, that it is therefore verie necessarie in regard of so many windings of errour, to direct the line of propheticall and Apo­stolicall interpretation according to the rule of the ecclesiasticall and Catholique sense.

83. This is heere sufficient for Traditions [Page 449] diuine and Apostolicall, which the Spiritte of the Church (being to leade vnto all truth) doth distinguish from such as are false, and su­perstitious, and doth easilie defend against all you can say. The Scripture hath not one word against them, as anie man will easilie see who doth but marke what he doth reade, and will not take speaking for writing, which the most ignorant with attention can distinguish in them selues, being able to doe the one and not the other. And the Fathers are cleere as you haue seene, requiring euer tradition (as in­deed it is required) for the Scripture and for the sense: though the written word be per­fect, within its owne boūds. You allso though you loath it neuer so much, must needs ad­mitte of it for the Scripture, for the number of Canonicall bookes, for the pars of them, for the sense, and for other things: you being not able anie other way in the world to answeare anie man who would denie them, or to per­suade him to beleeue that you haue the word of God, or anie part of it. Moreouer this do­ctrine is by generall consent of the Church defined in the Councells of Nice and Trent, and hath beene the meanes whereby the Ca­tholique Church hath conserued vntill now the word of God, and therefore the contra­rie open Heresie, being opposite vnto Gods [Page 450] expresse words which I haue put downe in the begining of this chapter, and to the be­leefe of the old Fathers, of generall Coun­cells, and of the Church.

84 The text, all scripture is profitable &c. is answeared in the first booke.c. 4. It is profitable, true, but it is not all sufficient. It is sufficient too in one kinde; for the written word; but nor in all kinds, not all-sufficient. Tradition and diuine Assistance, are necessarie too, each in their kinde doth concurre. Tradition is more generall then writing; it deliuers the scripture and the sense of it, and can teach also without writing, and did before the Scripture was ex­tant. This Tradition relieth vppon the diuine Assistance, whereof I haue discoursed largelie the third booke, and neede not repeate it heere. Particular causes in this lower world are sufficient in their kinde, a horse to gene­rate a horse, a man to generate a man, but the effect is not produced without the concur­rence of higher causes. The Sunne and a man saith the Philosopher produce a man. The in­feriour and superiour causes are sufficient in their kinds, and yet vnles the prime and most vniuersall cause doth concurre nothing is produced. You are to prooue that the Scri­ture is sufficient in all kinds if you will ex­clude tradition. To all your peaching, your [Page 451] mouth is profitable, and sufficient too in that kinde, you need not two mouthes; but wthout a tongue you cannot doe it. Mouth and ton­gue are profitable, and sufficient in their kin­des, but you cannot doe it without braines, braines and witte are profitable and sufficient in their kinds but all will not serue without learning. So that you see the argument is not good; it is profitable and to all, therefore all-sufficient.

85. And thus I am come at last to the end of this part also, hauing answeared the chie­fest things which you oppose in the decrees of the Church, and shewed how the Church representatiue is vniustlie accused of errour. The Decrees of generall Councells were be­leeued before Caluin had any Schoole, and will be when he hath neuer a Scholler. In them is the highest TEACHING AVTHORITIE in the world, and therefore the Schollers of Iesus Christ must beleeue what they define. The sheepe are not to choose their pasture: ould wiues and plow­men are not to decide Controuersies in Reli­gion: they are not to ascēd the Chaire and ex­pound Scripture to the world. No, the Pastors must doe this;Mat. 28. Act. 20.10.21. Ephes. 4. The Apostles ād their successors were sent to teach. God put Bisshops to rule the Church; he charged Peeter to feede his [Page 452] flocke. The pastors are to teach. The sheepe to learne.

86. In generall Councells the Pastors are are assembled, their Authoritie is vnited there, to moue the Whole, to teach the Church. The Church is to followe their common direction, and therefore it belonges to Gods prouidence to assist them defining; And the whole Church vniuersallie doth beleeue that such Councells are assisted, and cannot erre; learned, vnlearned, people, and Pastors, all beleeue it; and all the Church as I shewed you before cannot erre. The Apostles did beleeue it allso, and so vnderstood the pro­mise of Iesus Christ,Act. 15. Io. 16. when he said that the holie Ghost should teach them all truth. God rules and moues the lower world by the higher. The heauens vertue doth begette and conserue things heere on earth. To the hea­uens for the regularitie of their Motion he hath addicted an Intelligence. Our Sauiour hath so disposed his Church, that the Laitie are mooued and gouerned in matters of Re­ligion by the Clergie.Rom. 20. Rom. 10. The Pastors begette and conserue in the people faith by preaching the the word of God. And to the Pastors for the Regularitie of their Motion he hath left an Assisting Spirit,Io. 16. the Holie Ghost, the Spirit of Truth. The Christian truth is to be learned in the Schoole of Iesꝰ Christ: this Schoole is the [Page 453] the Catholique Church: The highest CHAI­ER in it, is a Perfect Oecumenicall COVN­CELL. No man hath, or can with any appa­rence pretend, (as will appeare in the exami­nation) a fuller participation of the TEA­CHING POWER, then such a Councell.

87. To make an end therefore, cōsider well what I do saie. That definitiō, which the Ca­tholique Church vniuersallie,Of Church proposition there is more in the third booke, where I haue allso told you how the diuine au­thoritie, ād the Church authoritie doe moue both in se­uerall kinds, to the same acte. doth take for a suffic [...]ē [...] direction of her faith by way of Pro­position, IS FREE frō errour. Otherwise the Catholique Church vniuersallie might erre, which is vnpossible, as I haue declared in the third booke. Now, the Catholique Church vniuersallie, doth take the definition of the Councell which SHEE ESTEEMETH Oe­cumenicall, to be a sufficient direction of her faith by waye of Proposition, as I haue de­clared there also. And hence it comes that the definition of a Councell ESTEEMED by the Catholique Church, Oecumenicall, is free frō errour. Will you haue another way with­out recourse to such a Councell? Take this. What the Bisshops diffused (those I meane who are in the Catholique communiō) do v­niformelie teach, is true. If you should oppo­se, that they are many, and that you cannot know the doctrine of them all being diffused: I would answere, that by their communion [Page 454] with the See Apostolique their doctrine is knowne sufficiently for this purpose, ād their communion is very manifest vnto all. Where you must note that it is the exteriour profes­siō which I attēd vnto,Propositiō this is easilie knowne, and this, as farre as it is vniforme in ALL Bi­shops in the Catholique communiō (be they many or few, so they be all) is WARRAN­TED by the Holie Ghost: and by this exte­riour proposition or commō doctrine, (what­soeuer els any of them thinke secretly in their mindes) I am to be directed.Ephes. 4. Mat. 28.10.16. He, Christ, gaue Pastors, that wee be not wauering. Teach all Na­tions, and behold, I am with you. The spirit of truth, shall teach you all truth.

If you dispute againe, meddle not with points, not yet agreed vppon among vs. Talke not of things controuerted in our Schooles at this daie. The proposition which you op­pose, if you will oppose me, must be a Catho­lique proposition agreed on generally by the Church. Other things I can dispute in our owne Schooles, and with such as know them better then you doe.