A CHRISTIAN AND MODEST OFFER OF A MOST INDIFFERENT CONFE­RENCE, OR DISPVTATION, ABOVT the maine and principall Controversies betwixt the Prelats, and the late silenced and deprived Ministers in England: TENDERED BY SOME OF THE SAID MINISTERS TO THE Archbishops, and Bishops, and all their adherents.

1. Thess. 5.21.

Trie all things, and keepe that which is good.

Ioh. 7.24.

Iudge not according to the appearance; but iudge righte­ous iudgment.

Ioh. 18.23.

If I have evill spoken, beare witnes of the evill: but if I haue well spoken, why smitest thou me?

Imprinted. 1606.

TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTIE PRINCE, IAMES, BY THE GRACE OF GOD; KING of great Britaine, France, and Ireland, Defender of the faith &c.

MOst High and mightie Soveraigne, As it is the office of every Christian to endevour, by all good & lawfull meanes, to procure the peace and prosperitie of Sion; so is it principally required of the Ministers of the Gospell of Iesus Christ, not onely that they be Gods Remēbrancers, giving him no rest, untill he set up Ierusalem the prayse of the world, but al­so that they be humble suiters unto those that, under him, be in supreme & soveraigne Authority, that, according to their places, they will become nursing Fathers, & nursing Mothers to the Churches of God within their Dominions. And as this is a duety that lyeth both upon Minister & people at all times (for the neg­lect whereof they shalbe accountable to that great and mightie God, whose servants they are) so are they then especially to be carefull of it, when they see the truth of God, and the Ordinan­ces of Christ Iesus, the sole King and Prophet of his Church, to be opposed & oppugned, and the syncere Professors of the Gospell maligned and traduced, yea oppressed, and in a sort troden un­der foote, by men who seeke nothing but themselues, and who, for the maintayning of their owne Pompe, and for the feeding of their idle bellies, stick not to wrest the Scepter out of the handes of Christ, and to thrust him out of his chaire of Estate. The consideration hereof (most deare and dread Soveraigne) hath imboldened vs, Gods most unworthy servants, your Maie­sties loving and loyall Subiectes, at this time to cast downe our [Page]selues at your royall feete, and to craue your Princely favour.

Your Maiestie knoweth right well what Controversies there haue been amongst us in this lād, about the Prelacy, Ceremo­nies, & Subscriptiō, ever since the bright shinīg beames of the glorious Gospell of Christ first dispelled & chased away the fog­gie mistes, & black darknes of Popery from out of our coastes. You know likwise how hotely & egarly the Approbatiō of these things hath been vrged by the Prelates; who, being wise in their genera­tion, haue left no stone vnrolled for the upholding of their rui­nous & tottering kingdome; they having from time to time not onely reviled and disgraced, both in Pulpit and in Print, those whom they call their brethren, and fellow servants of Iesus Christ (who out of a fervent Zeale of the glorie of God, and a per­fect detestation of Poperie, haue witnessed against these Corrupti­ons) but having also suspended, deprived, degraded, and im­prisoned them, yea caused them to be turned out of house and home, denyed them all benefit of law, and used them with such contempt & contumely, as if they were not wor­thy to liue upon the face of the earth. Shall these Controversies be kept a-foote for ever? Shall they not once be finally decided & determined? Will it not be misery in the latter end, if the Pre­lates be not restrained in time? It is true that bookes haue been, and are daily written, on both sides: and yet the differences are as great, and greater now, then they were at the first; and so are like still to be, unles (by speciall order from your Maiestie) the matter may once come to some such direct, and iust Triall as is heere offered.

Wherein that your Maiestie may be the more willing and readie to harken unto us, we beseech you to consider, and that se­riously, that the Cause, which here we present unto you, is not our owne, but that it is the Cause of Christ Iesus, who is become a Suiter vnto you, and desireth that he may haue Audience: for [Page]whom whatsoever you shall doe, it shalbe remembred unto you, and abundātly recompensed at that great & last day of account, when you shall come to stand before his Tribunall, who is King of Kinges, and Lord of Lords; who is not unrighteous that he should forget any thing that is done for him, or for any cause of his. And howsoever the Prelates, and their followers, do beare your Maiestie in hand, that the Church-Government desired is an enemy to your Crowne and dignitie; beleeue them not, we hū ­bly beseech you, neither harken to their Syren songes: It is (as we are readie to proue) a holy Ordinance of God, which will stand when all such as oppose it, and blaspheme it in the eares of your Royall Maiestie, shall melt away as snow before the Sunne. And if by such an indifferent Conference as is heere tendered, we shall not make it as cleere unto your Maiestie as the Sunne at Noone-day, that the Governement of the Churches of Christ by Pastors, Teachers, and Elders is much more agreeable to the State of a Monarchy, then is the present Governement by Archbishops, Bishops, Archdeacons, Commissaries, and the rest of that Romish Hierarchy, let us then finde no favor in your Maiesties eyes.

Your Maiestie professed before you came to the Crowne, that you did equally loue & honor the learned & graue men of either of these opinions: Basil. dor. Epist. pag 11. and it is no small heartes-griefe unto us, that, since your comming into this land, your Affections are so alienated & estranged from us, who haue done you no hurt in the world, but haue wished you all the good that your owne soule desireth; nay, who, before we saw your face, laboured by all good meanes (not without some danger) to promote your Maiesties iust Title to this Crowne, and haue ever since caryed our selues duetifully towards your Maiestie, and peaceably in the service of God, and of his Churches. We are not ignorant what the Pre­lates doe pretend, and what they suggest continually in your [Page]Princely eares; they cry out against us with open mouth, that we are stubberne and refractarie persons, and enemies to your Sove­raigne Authoritie: wherein they doe both highly abuse your Ma­iestie, and wrong us exceedingly. For it is well knowne, and the Lord beareth us witnes, that we doe, in the singlenes and synce­ritie of our heartes, ascribe much more unto your Maiestie and the Civill authoritie under you, then any Prelate in the land ei­ther doth, or is willing to doe. And for the matters in question, we professe heere in the presence of that great God, before whom we shall one day appeare to answer it, if we speake not the truth, that we stand not against them out of any wilfulnes, or peevishnes, but out of the tendernes of our Cōsciences, as being perswa­ded in our very soules, that we cannot yeeld unto them, without sinning against Christ Iesus, whose Ministers and Messengers we are. And if, upon such a due Triall of our cause as is desired, the truth of the ensuing Propositions (which are the speciall groundes on which we stand) shalbe infringed by the Prelates; nay, if we shall not be able to make them so cleere and manifest by the infallible & undeniable evidence of the holy word of God, that who so doth not wilfully hoodwinke himselfe may plainely see and discerne the truth of them; we doe heere promise, and binde our selues in the word of Christians, that we will presently change our mindes, and become wholly Conformable to the pre­sent State.

Wherefore we, being herein privy to our owne uprightnes both to God & to our Soveraigne, cannot but conceiue some hope, notwithstanding all the contrary plottes and practises of the Pre­lates, that your Maiestie (who are even as an Angell of God to discerne betweene good and evill) wilbe pleased now at last both to take a more exact knowledge of our cause, and (out of the ten­der bowells of your compassion) to thinke upon and pity the di­stressed estate not onely of us the Lordes poore servants, who are [Page]without any iust cause cast out from serving at his Altar, but al­so of the Churches of Christ in this land, which doe mourne and grone under the burden of humane Traditions. Oh that this should be told at Gath, or published in the streetes of Ashkelon, amongst the daughters of the uncircumcised, that, under the Go­vernement of so worthily renowned and famous a Prince, the Churches of God haue been thus miserably wasted, and such a woful havock made in them by vsurping & time-serving Pre­lates, as the like hath never been heard of in this land, under the Gospell. Oh that this should be either said, or written in succee­ding ages, that in the raigne of Noble King Iames (whose name shall liue amongst men, when he, having finished his course, shall sleepe with his Fathers) so many painefull Preachers of the Go­spell (even three hundred, or there-aboutes) haue in one yeere and a litle more, been turned out of Christs service, onely for refusing such Ceremonies, as haue their life, breath, and being from Pope­rie, and such a Subscription, as the like, for ought we know, hath neuer been urged upon any Church of Christ, in any age, under a Christian Magistrate: there being in the meane time whole swarmes of idle, Idole, scandalous, Popish, and Non-resident Mi­nisters tolerated every where amongst us.

The Prelates haue left no meanes of rigour and extremitie vnassayed, for the suppressing of this cause, and for the discou­raging and daunting of all those that either speake or write for it; and yet the glorious evidence of the truth is such, that it wan­teth no witnesses; there being at this day many hundreds of the most painefull & profitable Preachers in this Kingdome (besides those alreadie turned out) which are readie to lose both their Mi­nistery & their Maintenance, and to expose themselues & theirs to all manner of misery, rather then they will renounce this Cause, and conforme themselues to the Corruptions of the times. If therefore there be in the Prelates any loue of the truth, or any [Page]sparke of desire of the peace and prosperitie of our Churches (which is the thing that they so much pretend unto your Maie­stie) it will now appeare and shew it self, and you shall easily dis­cerne it, by their indeavour to procure the admittance of this Offer, which is the likeliest & the readiest way, that hitherto hath been thought upon, both to finde out the truth, and to put a perpetuall end to all these long-continued Controversies. Some o­ther thinges there be, which we would willingly haue brought to this, or the like Triall, as namely, the Oth ex officio, which is a cruell a racking of the minde, as the most exquisite Torture can be of the body; and sundrie of the late Canons. But because they be of another nature, and we take them to be not onely contrary to the word of God, but also directly against the lawes of the land, we mention them not in our Propositions, in which we haue endevoured to set downe onely the groundes of all the maine differences betwixt us & the Prelats: which if they be once throughly debated, & soundly agreed upon, your Maiestie shall see such a blessed vnitie and vniformitie in all the Churches within your Dominions, as your owne heart desireth.

May it therfore please your most excellent Maiestie to reade, & examine this Offer, & to weigh in all the partes therof the equitie & iustice of it, & the most certaine advantage that the truth (on which side soever it is) shall receiue by the acceptance of it: may it please you likewise to urge the Prelates, whom it deepely concerneth, to admitt of it; and to secure by Royall protection those that shalbe Actors in it: who, howsoever they are forced to conceale their names (in regard of the rigor and severitie of the Prelates) will notwithstanding be most willing & readie to shew themselues, if your Maiestie shall vouchsafe, to signifie your gra­tious pleasure touching the admittance of this Conference. If therefore we haue found favour in your Maiesties eyes, and [Page]if this great cause of Christs be regarded; Our humble suite vn­to your Highnes is, that you would make it knowne by some pub­like Act, that the Offer shalbe accepted, and they protected by your Royall Authority, that haue, or shall haue to doe in it. So shall we haue occasion, every day more and more, to intreat the Lord, as we haue done and will doe for ever, that he will conti­nue vpon your Maiestie, with a happy increase, all his graces both bodily and spirituall, even untill, and in the day of Christ.

The Lord Iesus blesse your Maiestie, and your Royall poste­ritie, and graunt vnto you a long and a happie raigne over us: the Lord multiplie all his mercyes upon you both for this and a better life, and cover with shame the faces of all such as wish you the least evill. Amen.

Your Majesties obedient Subjects, most readie to doe your will in all thinges, wherein they shall not disobey the will of God: Some of the late silenced and depri­ved Ministers.

A CHRISTIAN AND MODEST OFFER OF A MOST INDIFFERENT CONFERENCE or disputation, about the maine and principall Contro­versies betwixt the Prelats, and the late s [...]nced and deprived Ministers in England: TENDERED BY SOME OF THE SAID MINISTERS TO THE Archbishops, and Bishops, and all their adherents.

Wherein are set downe,

  • 1. The Propositions which the Ministers offer to maintaine a­gainst the Prelats.
  • 2. The Conditions, forme, and maner of the Conference or Disputation.
  • 3. Iust Considerations moving the Ministers to make this Offer.
  • 4. An Answer to such opposisions, as may be made by the Prelats against yeeiding to the said Offer.

1. THE PROPOSITIONS VVHICH THE MINISTERS OF­fer to maintaine against the Prelats.

1.ALL matters meerely Ecclesiasticall, which are lawfully imposed vpon any Church, are such as may be cōcluded necessarily from the writ ten word of God.

2. All Humane Ordinances vsed only or specially in Gods worship, whervnto they are not necessary of them selues, are simply vnlawfull.

3. Euery true visible Church of Christ is such a spiritu­all Body politike, as is specially instituted by Christ or his [Page 2]Apostles in the New Testament.

4. There is no True Visible Church of Christ but a par­ticular ordinary Congregation onely.

5. Every true visible Church of Christ, or ordinary As­semblie of the faithfull, hath by Christs ordinance power in it selfe, immediatly under Christ, to elect and ordaine, deprive and depose their Ministers, and to execute all o­ther Ecclesiasticall Censures.

6. The Pastor of a particular Congregation is the high­est ordinarie ecclesiasticall Officer in any true constitu­ted visible Church of Christ.

7. It is the Office of every true Pastor to teach & to go­verne spiritually onely one Church or Congregation immediatly under Christ.

8. The Pastor alone ought not to exercise Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction over his Church, but others ought to be joy­ned in Commission with him by the assignement of the same Church; neither ought he and they to performe any maine and materiall Ecclesiasticall act, without the free consent of the Congregation.

9. The Presbyterie which is desired is not Lay, as they call it; And the Churchwardens and Sidemen heere in England, beyng joyned as Assistants to the Ministers in the oversight of the severall Parishes, are a resemblance of those governing Elders which are desired.

10. The Office and Calling of Provinciall & Diocesan Prelats is contrary to the word of God.

11. It is simply unlawfull for any Pastor under the New Testament to be also a Civill Magistrat.

12. The Civill Magistrats ought to be the Overseers of Provinces, & Dioceses, and of the severall Churches ther­in: And it is their Office & dutie injoyned them by God, to take knowledge of, to punish, and redresse all misgover­ning [Page 3]or ill teaching of any Church, or Church officer.

13. The Church government desired is more agreable to the state of a Monarchie, and to the Kings Supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall, and more easie, and sate both for Church & Common wealth, then is the present govern­ment by Prelats.

14. No man hath authoririe to bring into the service of God any Ceremony meerely Ecclesiasticall, of mysticall signification.

15. The Ceremonies in controversie are not indifferent, but contrary to the word of God.

16. The Ministers refusing the Conformitie and Sub­scription required, are therein neither Schismatiks, Sedi­tious persons, enemyes to the Kings Supremacie, nor any way undutifull to King, or State.

2. The Conditions, forme, and maner of the Confe­rence or disputation.

THat there may be a free choise made by the Mi­nisters from amongst themselues of some 6. or 8. persons, vnto whom the maintenance of these points may be committed; and as many chosen by the Prelats from among them selues, or their Conformed Clergie, to impugne the same.

2. That it my be lawfull for those on either side so cho­sen, in any particular occurrent difficulty, to take counsell and aduise of any other their Brethren; and that then the speciall acts of the said chosen parties may be reputed the Acts of all those that chose them.

3. That when one side hath opposed to the vttermost that they can, or shall see meet, then the other side shall [Page 4]oppose in like maner to the contrary: And that the Pre­lates may (if they will) make choise which side shall op­pose in the first place.

4. That the Opponents frame their Arguments in strict forme of Syllogisme only: And that the Answerers (without any excursions, or personall speeches whatsoe­uer) answer directly to the premisses, either by denying or distinguishing; and that all be done in writing.

5. That if at any time the Answerer denying a Proposition shall withall giue a reason of his deniall, he doe it in few wordes: and that then the Opponent shall briefly by way of discourse take away the reason, and after that pre­sently conclude the denied Proposition; that so the Argu­ment may come to the intended issue.

6. That if either in the Question, Argument, or Answer there be any termes which shall seeme doubtfull, there be no proceeding in the Conferēce untill the same be expla­ned, and the explanations deliuered in writing, if they which make doubt shall require it.

7. That neither side be urged to conclude those clauses, which in the maine Questions, or in the premisses of any Syllogisme are without controversie & granted: but that by consent they may be omitted, and that it may be only specified briefely that such or such a clause in such or such a Proposition is yeelded unto: And if there be many clau­ses in one and the same proposition which are doubtfull, that then it be lawfull and free to proue one of them after another.

8. That the Arguments, Answers, and Replyes be sub scribed by every person of that side frō which they com, and so delivered to the other side.

9. That there be no passing to the second proposition, [Page 5]vntill the first be fully debated, nor to the third vntill the second &c. As also, no passing to a second or third argu­ment, vntill the first be followed to the vttermost.

10. That reasonable time may be allowed for returning Replyes, & Answers: and when any argument is prosecu­ted to the vttermost, that all the Syllogismes, Answers, & Replyes be written together, and subscribed by all parties of each side in the conference, as their ioynt act: and that after they are so subscribed, there shall be no liberty to al­ter or change any thing therein; But that before such sub­scription it may be lawfull and free for each side vpon better considerations to alter, change, or revoke any particu­lar Reply, or Answer.

11. That when these controversies haue been debated to the vttermost, in maner and forme aforesaide, two of each side be chosen to digest the whole into a booke; and that it may be published in English and Latin.

12. That all by controversies and contentions whatso­euer, which shall fall out between the parties imployed in this conference, may be heard, iudged, determined, and sentenced by some civill Magistrat assigned by his Maje­stie for that purpose.

13. That the said Ministers vndertaking this conference may haue publike warrant and protection from his Maje­stie for the performance of the same, in such maner as is heere set downe.

14. That if it plainly appeare by this indifferent triall (or by the Prelats refusing to accept it) that the Ministers in these Propositions haue the truth on their side, and that the Prelats are in so great error; Then the said Ministers & as many els as shall see the truth which they stand for, may be exempted from the jurisdiction of the Prelats, the Mi­nisters [Page 6]restored agayne to their Ministerie from which they haue been unjustly deprived, freed from the Con­formitie and subscription requyred, and may (with their particular Elderships & Churches) be subject only to the authoritie and jurisdiction of the Civill Magistrate; to whom at all times they are willing and readie to yeeld an account of all their actions, and to humble themselues un­der their censures for any thing they shalbe found to of­fend in; Conforming themselues unto their willes in all things, alwayes, so farre as they may with a good consci­ence; and where they cannot so doe, submitting them­selues to all such punishment, as it shall please them to im­pose upon them.

15. That if it seeme not good to his Majestie & the state (for reasons best knowne unto themselues) to admit of so indifferent, honest, and reasonable a Conference, yet it would please them to requyre the Prelats, to publish a di­rect and full answer to such bookes as haue (upon occasiō of the late stormes) been published: viz. The Abridgement set forth by the Ministers of Lincolne Diocese; The Demands, & Considerations; Reasons proving a necessitie of reforming our Churches in England; The old Protestant and New formalist; The Treatise of Divine worship; The 12 Arguments; The Eng­lish Puritanisme; and the Protestation &c: And that it may be lawfull for the Ministers modestly and directly to reply vnto the said Answers, as also to any of the bookes which are lately, or haue been heertofore written against them & their cause; and to publish the same in print with leaue of authority, which they under take and binde themselues with all convenient speed faithfully and honestly to per­forme; they protesting heere before Almightie God, the searcher of all hearts, and the just revenger of all hypocri­sie, [Page 7]that (to their knowledge) there hath as yet no material thing been writtē against them in these foresaid Proposi­tions, or any other Controversie betwixt them and the Prelats, but they are able to giue a reasonable and just re­ply unto the same: and that by those bookes, which haue been published against them, they haue been rather con­firmed & strengthened in the sayd opinions which they hold against the Prelats, then any way satisfied or answe­red, as shall appeare to all the world (by Gods gracious as­sistance) if they may haue permitted unto them that liber tie, to publish their writings to the world, which the Pre lats take unto themselues.

16. That if this most reasonable and just course of com­posing these controversies be denyed them, yet at least they may haue free leaue to publish and to offer to the censure of the whole world nakedly and playnly, all those several Arguments, & Reasons, which they haue thought upon for the confirmation of the former Propositions; as also their direct Answers to all such Arguments on the contrary side, as they shall finde publ [...]shed in the writings of the Prelats and their adherents. In all which they pro­mise to keepe themselues closely & directly to the poynts in controversy, in so strict a forme, that it shalbe most easy for the Prelats to giue an answer unto them, if so be they be in error in holding the said Propositions.

3. Iust Considerations moving the Ministers to make this offer.

MAny of the Ministers having by reason of their Deposition from the publike Ministerie more cause, occasion, and leasure to studie these con­troversies [Page 8]then before, doe find that the more they wade into them, the more they are confirmed in that truth for which they suffer. So that howsoever the intendment of the Prelats hath been by their rigorous extremitie of af­fliction to make them to force their consciences, against conscience to yeeld, that so they might rejoyce in their flesh; and though the Lord hath surrered their rod (to the further hardening of their hearts) to ly so heavie upon some of his servants that they haue put forth their hand to injquitie, yet othersome by this meanes are so far from shrinking from the profession of that truth which by their sufferings they haue honored, that the more they haue sustayned for it, the more (by the mercy of God) they see the glorious evidence of it. And therefore in honor vnto that heavenly truth they can do no lesse, then in the feare of God make this offer vnto the greatest enemyes therof.

2. This cause, which the ministers professe and witnes vnto by their constant sufferings, being (as they are per­swaded in theire very soules and consciences) a divine & sacred truth; and being notoriously reviled and blasphemed as a hellish error by the mouthes of the prelats & their favourers (one saying that he damned the discipline to Hell frō whence it came; Vaghan his Con­ [...]orie in uses. Powel de diap. pref. others publishing in print that Christ is not the Lawgiver of his Churh; all generally calling our doctrine and opinion in this cause, Schisme and Haeresie, yea Treason and Rebellion; they having receaued this grace from God not only to see the truth heerein, but to seale and confirm it by their sufferings, thinke it a most bounden duty that they owe vnto their Lord and master Iesus Christ, whose Ministers and Servants they are, by all good meanes to iustifie the same; yea though they neither had suffered nor should suffer for it. Much more now, when as by the [Page 9]providence of God, they haue in themselues, their wiues, and children, sustained & indured so heavy things for it: And a more honest, moderat, Christian, and religious de­fence or Apology they cannot yeld vnto it, thē by making such an offer as this is, to the avowed enemyes thereof.

3. It is notorious vnto all the world, what indignities, sianders, false accusations, and calumniations, ouer and besides the other Legall proceedings (as they are preten­ded to be) the Prelats and their adherents in their privat speeches, publike sermons, and writinges, lay vpon those Ministers that hold & maintaine this cause, proclaiming thē to be Obstinat & Refractarie persons, Enemyes to the King & State, Notorious & manifest Schismatikes, Turbulent spirits, Chaplin wel in [...] Considetions. Contemptuous and disdayning the Authoritie of their lawfull Gouernors, presumptuous and wilfull Contenders with the Magi­strat, Impugning his authority in thinges indifferent, and Soue­raigntie in Ecclesiasticall cause, False Prophets, Members rent and cut of from the Church of God, Runawayes from their Mi­nistery, some standing vpon these points of difference not for con­science but for carnall respects, som because otherwise they knowe not how to be maintayned but by depending on that faction, som to gratify their benefactors & patrons and to please their friends, som for discontentment and want of preferment, som for giddi­nes of innovation, som for pride of hart and selfeloue, som for ha­tred of order, and restraint of their libertie, som for ignorance, yet willfull, because they will not knowe the state of the question, some to retaine the opinion of constancy, &c. Now it being the duty of every Christian even for Christs sake and the Gospells which he doth professe, to cleere his innocencie against such false and impious slanders; much more is it fit for the Ministers of the Gospell, being thus wickedly traduced, so to do. And therefore they think themselues bound in [Page 10]conscience to make this free and voluntarie offer vnto their Calumniators; the very propounding whereof is sufficient to all honest and iust mindes, that do not will­fully shut their eyes against the truth, to cleere and free them from all the aforesaid slanderous imputations.

4. The Christian and mercifull disposition and inclina­tion of the Lower house of Parliament, and of sundry of the Nobles of the Higher house (who in a holy Commi­seration of the Ministers distressed estates, and in a cer­taine knowledge both of their honest liues and conversa­tions, and of the good they haue done in their Ministe­ries, and of their peaceable and duetifull behaviour to all in authoritie, haue been earnest and zealous suppliants for them) hath been shamefully traduced by the Prelats; as though only through the incouragements & hopes repo­sed in them, and for this cause specially, that they might not be discredited and disgraced in their indeavours and intendments for Reformation, the Ministers did stand forth: Whereas by these presents all the world shall know and understand, that the cause for which the Ministers doe suffer is such, as (all due thankfullnes and service re­served to the Honorable and Christian indeavour of the Parliament) though God should (which we hope he will never permitt) so far forsake that High and Honorable Court, as in steed of being suppliants for the poore Mini­sters, they should joyne with the Prelats in making the most rigorous lawes against them that might be (even to bloud) yet the Ministers, by Gods good grace, stand re­solved to hold and maintaine their said profession. In wit­nes whereof they publish to the view of all men, this of­fer as a testimony of their confident resolution in the said cause for which they suffer.

5. There is such indifferencie in this offer, and it standeth upon so just & equall grounds, that it ought not to be re­fused of any Christians, no though made by Iewes, Turks, Arrians, Papists, or any other Heretiks whatsoever: Much lesse when it is made by Ministers constantly professing & shewing themselues willing and readie to submit them­selues in all things to the written word of God; and who in all matters (except in these Controversies of Religion, wherein yet they agree with most of the Churches that haue made a separation from Rome) are as obedient to the present State, and as unblameable in life and conver­sation as any other of his Majesties subjects.

6. Divers of the aforesaid Propositions are such, as that if the Ministers should not constantly holde & main­tayne the same against all men, they cannot see how possi­blie (by the rules of Divinitie) the seperatiō of our Chur­ches from the Church of Rome, and from the Pope, the supreme head thereof, can be justified. And therefore for asmuch as in these controversies the Papists and the Pre­lats goe hand in hand, the said Ministers doe in like forme and maner make the like Offer to the Priests and Iesuits, promising their reconcilement unto that Sea, if they can either by Arguments pull them from the foresaid Propo­sitions, or can answer such Arguments as they shall pro­pound in the defence of them, in maner and forme before specified in the Offer. And therefore it both standes the Ministers upon to make the aforesaid Offer, and the Pre­lats (except they will haue all the world to judge them to be frends in heart to Popery) to accept of the same.

7. The Doctors of Oxford in their answer to the Peti­tion of the 1000. Ministers, and G. Powell in his last booke undertake the answer of whatsoever can be objected in [Page 12]these causes: [...]ook. pref. [...]g 25.26. and M. Hooker in his Preface before his first booke of Politiks, propoundeth unto the Ministers that seeke Reformation the very like Offer and forme of dis­putation: Which bookes were published with the special approbation of the Prelats. Wherefore the Ministers ha­ving been in such a maner chalenged, they can doe no lesse then make this offer; which cannot be refused of the Prelats, but they will be judged of all the world to offer that which they will not performe.

8. The Bishop of Rochester with the consent, and by the direction (no doubt) of some of the chiefest Prelats, hath now lately published his Sermon preached in Sep­tember last before the King at Hampton Court; the maine drift wherof is to proue that the office & calling of Dioce san Bishops, in present cōtroversie, is a Divine & Apostoli call Ordināce: Besids, in his epistle to the Ministers of Scotland, prefixed before the sayd Sermon, he professeth that if there shall an answer be made therunto with modestie and learning, nothing shall be more welcome, And that to avouch & make it good that the said Episcopall calling is unlawfull, were a labor worthy the travell, and of the Prelats much desired. Wherfore seeing the Prelats themselues do offer to bring this cause to a publike triall (& it cōcerneth us in England also no less then our brethren in Scotland) & seeing by this course & order heere layd downe, this question amongst the rest will come to be far more exactly tryed, then by a­ny other way hitherto thought on, the Ministers haue just cause to tender this Conference; nothing doubting but that the Prelats will willingly accept it, especially see­ing they seeme so much to desire it, and in all reason it is like to put an end to all these controversies, which haue so long troubled the peace and quiet of our Churches.

9. Since the Ministers late troubles, there haue been many bookes published in Print against them, contay­ning many shamefull untruthes and abuses, wherin great violence & wrong hath been offered to Gods truth; ma­ny grosse and Popish errors haue been divulged, and ma­ny impostures used, onely to deceaue the simple, and to blind their eyes, that they may not see the truth of the Ministers cause; which the Ministers take themselues bound in conscience to answer. But being not able partly by reason of their povertie, partly by want of meanes of Printing, partly for other difficulties, to publish, so soone as is requisit, so many answers (except they might haue leaue from authoritie) unto so many great bookes as ma­ny of them are: They haue judged it meet (in the meane time) to make this Offer, wherein if they prevaile & gaine the cause, they make no question but they shall haue all other particularities yeelded, and shall saue that other labor.

10. They haue warrant thus far from his Majestie, both in his booke called Basilicon doron; where he willeth them to presse by patience and well grounded reasons to perswade other men to like of their iudgments; and by the Proclamation of Iuly 16. 1604: In which the Prelats are required to doe their uttermost indeavour by perswasions, Conference, Arguments, and all other wayes of gentlenes and loue to reclaime the Ministers; which being as yet not done by them, can not be performed by a more direct and indif­ferent course, then by accepting such an Offer as this is.

11. By direction from the chiefe of the Prelats,Consid. p [...] G. Powell hath published, That his excellent Majestie, as he loved these Ministers dearliest of all others, so he sought the more ear­nestly to reclayme them by some correction. So that either the [Page 14]Prelats heerein haue offered his Majestie open wrong in proclaiming his speciall favor to the said Ministers, or else they are not to doubt, but in the abundance thereof he will vouchsafe to those poore distressed and chastised favourits of his so much grace, as to command that this Offer may be accepted, and by his Royall assent to con­firme the same.

12. The Apologeticall books which the Ministers haue been constrayned from time to time to publish in defēce of their Persons and Cause, can not come to the hands & scanning of those powers, that next under God are most able to relieue them. And therefore for the cleering of their innocencie and the justifiyng of their cause (which is indeed the cause of God) they are cōstrayned to make this publike and solemne Offer, by meanes whereof it may come to passe that all men may take notice of the goodnes of the cause, and of the grosse wrongs they haue sustained and indured for maintayning the same.

13. His Majestie signified to the Committies of the Lower house (Supplicating on the behalfe of the Ministers) that before mercy there must goe a submission, and that if they looke for mercy at his hands, they must acknowledge a fault. This is that which they desire; If it can be proved that they haue offended his Majestie in the least thing, they desire no mercy till they acknowledge a fault, and submit them selues for the same. But it is (no doubt) far from the heart of so Royall a Prince to require either Confession, or Submission, wherther is no transgressiō. For their owne parts they are perswaded and resolved, that that truth for the professing wherof the Prelats proceed so severely against them, is most behoofull for his Majestie, his Crowne, and dignitie, and the whole State: And that in yeelding heer­in [Page 15]in unto the Prelats, they should make a breach in that du­tie, which by Gods law every true hearted and loyall subject in this kingdome oweth both to the King and State. And yet if they be in an errour, there can be no more di­rect and likely course used to bring them unto a submissi­on for the same, then to haue these poynts freely debated by the acceptance of this Offer.

14. When the Ministers consider the dayly increase of Papists, their treacheries and conspiracies, their insolent bouldnes, the continuall broaching of grosse and Popish errours, what litle molestation the Papists haue by the government of the Prelats, yea what favour they find se­cretly and under hand, what resistance was made to the Lawes intended to haue been made against them, especi­ally by some and those not the meanest of the Prelats, what light matters are made of their horrible Treasons and damnable opinions, what litle execution there is of the lawes against them; they haue reason to feare, that be­fore they are aware & as it were in a dreame, (if the raynes be in this maner left in the Prelats handes for matters of religion) the neck both of his Royall Maiestie and of the whole State shalbe brought under the yoke of the Pope that Antichrist of Rome, and his divelish jdolatrie. And therefore in a serious mediatation of the best meanes to prevent this great & imminent evill, which lyeth wor­king in a mysterie, they cannot thinke of a more direct course then this open and professed Opposition unto the Prelats in the foresaid Propositions; wherein if they shall prevaile, they shall not onely giue a deadly wound to the Prelacie it selfe, but to the accursed Religion of Rome, from which (at least, if it be held to be Iure divino) it re­ceaveth both breath and life. For who was so simple that [Page 61]saw not, that at his Majesties first cōming to the Crowne when the Prelats hangd downe their heads in suspense & feare, the Papists hearts were as dead as stones; and that the very first Proclamation against the Ministers in be­halfe of the Prelats, revived the Papists againe: And that ever since with the increase of the grace, favour, and au­thoritie of the Prelats, the hopes, bouldnes, and nombers of Papists haue increased. And therefore howsoever the Prelats may mocke children and fooles in imputing the Ministers; yet any that wisheth the confusion of that An­tichrist may with halfe an eye see, where the true cause is. And therefore they seeing this (except they should be wilfull traytors to God, their King, and Country) cannot but make opposition unto the Prelats in approving the Propositions aboue specified: wherein if they be in an er­ror, and the Prelats on the contrary haue the truth; they protest to all the world that the Pope and the Church of Rome (and in them God and Christ Iesus himselfe) haue had great wrong & indignitie offered unto them, in that they are rejected; and that all the Protestant Churches are Schismaticall in forsaking Unitie and Communion with them.

15. The former Propositions are such, that there will not be found (as we are verily perswaded in our consci­ences) any one Conformable Minister in this kingdome, except he be a masked Papist, that will refuse to Sub­scribe to any one of thē, if so be it would please the King and State by Law to urge them thereunto under such penalties as the Ministers are urged to subscribe unto the Articles devised by the Prelats. Yea, we are out of all doubt, that the Prelats themselues (if it were pressed up­on [Page 17]them by the King and state vnder paine of deprivatiō from their Bishopricks) would not stick to avouch vpon their othes, that the Ceremonies and Subscription, for which the Ministers stand suspended and deprived, are wicked and vngodly, & such as no good Christian ought to yeeld vnto. Nay, if the case stood but vpon the sauing of their Temporaltyes thereby (which else they should loose) we doubt not but they would with heart & hand subscribe to any one of the aforesaid Propositions. Sith therefore it is more then cleere, that they haue Offered plaine violence vnto the Consciences of all most all the conforming and subscribing Ministers; & that even con­trarie to their owne consciences they haue proceeded a­gainst their poore bretheren, because they will not by conformitie & subscr [...]ption renounce the truth contayn­ed in these propositiēs; can any blame the said Ministers, if hauing not only the said truth on their side, but in like­lyhood the Consciences of the Prelats also, they make such an Offer as this is?

15. It is agreeable to common sense and reason (and the Bishop of Chichester hath some such thing in his Lectures vpon the Commandements) that doubtfull acti­ons should all-wayes giue place vnto those that are out of all doubt & question. Seeing therefore no good Prote­stant ever doubted, but that it is lawfull enough in it selfe to administer the word and sacraments in common and ordinary civill attyre, to administer Baptisme without the signe of the Crosse or any such like mysticall rite, and to vndertake a Ministery (being called thervnto of the Church) without the authority of a Diocesan Prelate, and without any such subscription as is required: and see­ing the consormity and subscription required (against [Page 18]which the Ministers doe witnes) hath been ever called into question since the first appearance of the Gospell out of Popery, & concluded and determined against, both in the profession and practis of the greatest lights of this age, and of so many Reformed Churches; haue not the Ministers just cause (they desiring nothing which is of it selfe vnlawful, & suffering for nothing but for the refusall of those things which haue ever been in Controversy, whether they be lawfull or not) haue not the Ministers (we say) just cause to make this Offer, and to cleaue con­stantly vnto that which all men grant to be lawfull, vntill by some such indifferent meanes as this is, the contrary matters, bejng so doubtfull, shall be proved to be lawfull.

16. It is notorious vnto all the world what damnable and impious imputations the Prelats and their defendors haue laid vpon Calvin, BeZa, and all reformed Churches, raking vp calumniations against them out of the writ­ings of Allen, Parsons, and other traiterous Papists, not­withstanding Bishop Iewel and Bishop Bilson haue most cleerly in their writings against the Papists detected the falshood thereof. And seeing that the Papists haue gone about, since the discovery of that late detestable plot by gunpowder, to iustifie their abominable Treasons, Con­spiracies, Rebellions, Periuries, and Equivocations by the doctrine of the worthyest Protestants, taking iust ad­vantage thereof by the slanderous writings of the Prelats against those of our owne religion; And further seeing that the intent of the Prelats therin was to make all the Ministers, that consent in iudgment with those persons and Churches which they haue thus traduced, odious and vile in the eyes of all men, as persons in clined to pe­rilous conspiracies, Treasons, and Rebellions; there be­ing [Page 19]no other ground, nor any colour of all this, but be­cause together with other Churches they holde the fore­said propositions; howsoever in a late Reply vnto the Pa­pists the matter be pittifully shifted of: yet seeing these heavy proceedings against the said Ministers are a kinde of confirmation of the aforesaid imputations, it stands them vpon by this Offer to cleere themselues, and to de­tect the vnchristian and vngodly wrongs which the Pre­lats haue don to so many worthy persons & Churches.

17. Vpon a serious consideration how the hand of God hath been vpon many of those, who, hauing formerly im­braced this cause, haue shrunk from tre truth maintained in these propositions; how some of them haue evidently lost the grace and power of their gifts, some growen to be idle, neglecting both privat and publike dutyes, yea pro­fane and scandalous in their liues and conversations, som ashamed to shew their faces in the presence of any who truly fearing God haue knowne their former cariage, som languishing and pining away till they haue died, & that within few dayes after their yeelding, some possessed (as it were) with a continuall fury incessantly vexing & tormenting them,FR. MAR and thrusting them into continual storming & raging in the pulpit aginst those that doe not as they do, all of them falling to the maintenance of most grosse and Popish errors, and none of them respected allmost by any, but cōtemned & scorned even of the Prelats themselues, as those which were either hypocrits before, or hypo­crits now; The Ministers hauing receaved this grace from God, not only to see and acknowledge this truth, but to confirme it with their sufferings, haue thought it more then needfull to make this Christian Offer, for the stay­ing and strengthening of such of their brethren, as are o­therwise [Page 20]in danger to fall after the same maner.

18. In as much as all the professed and notorious A­theists, Papists, Blasphemers, Adulterers, Drunckards, & infamous persons in this Kingdome, are together with the prelats professed enemyes vnto the Ministers in this cause, and haue been from time to time the speciall in­struments of all the troubles which haue befallen them for the same; can any man lay any iust blame vpon the Ministers for making this Offer, now, when as the Pre­lats haue by their late proceedings giuen such cause to all the wicked and profane of the land to clappe their hands in Triumph over them?

19. It is well knowen in those Countries where the said Ministers haue liued, especially to the Townes where they haue exercised their Ministery, that, according to the proportion of their Livings and maintenance, they haue kept as good hospitalitie, given as liberall intertain­ment vnto others, and as much relieved (to their power) those in want, as any other Ministers whosoever; whereas now a great part of them, with their wiues and children, are forced to liue vpon the beneuolence and devotions of others. Which lamentable and miserable astate of theirs, the Prelats and their Adherents are so far from pitying, that they take occasion the more to scorne & deride thē, yea and to insult over them for the same: they being not ashamed both in the Pulpit & in Print falsely to affirme, that by this meanes not only the outward estate of the Ministers is bettered, but that they haue voluntarily and of set purpose left their Ministery, that they might liue in this maner vpon the sweat of other mens browes, and by Contributions inrich themselues. Though therfore the many & great meanes, which the Ministers haue vsed [Page 21]both to prevent these proceedings, and to be restored to their places againe, are sufficient to lay open the shame of these malicious & spitfull calumniations; Yet they have thought it meet by this Offer to make it knowne unto all the world, that they are so far from affecting such a course of life, that they ever haue been, and are still, most willing to doe any thing (but that, the doing whereof may pro­cure damnation unto their soules) for the keeping or re­covering of their former places, from which they haue been thrust; to the end that they might ease their Christi­an friends of those great burdens, wherewith since these late troubles they haue been pressed, in yeelding reliefe unto their extremities.

21. The Prelats are now come to this height of Po­pish injquitie,G. Powel Adiaph. c. 2. sect. 7.8.9.10: that they are not ashamed to hold & main­taine, that they being the Church, are in their Canons and Con­stitutions alwayes directed in externall thinges by the spirit of God; and that therefore whatsoever they decree is more then Hu­mane, yea even Divine; and that the true Church allwayes de­pends upon the word, so as it cannot possibly swarue from the same; and therefore all her Traditions are holy and divine. And this Church of Prelats (professing themselves to be as­sembled in a sacred Synod in the name of Christ, and directed by the spirit of God,Canon 13 and Excommunicating all them that shall say the contrary) haue in their said late Synod decre­ed, that all who shall affirme, that either the Ceremonyes in Controversie are superstitious and unlawfull, Can: 6, & or that the Government by Archbishops and Bishops is not Apostolicall and lawfull, are to be excommunicated ipso facto. Now seeing that not onely the Ministers suspended and de­prived, but many thowsand others in this Kingdome, do affirme and maintaine these things, they stand all by ver­tue [Page 22]of those Canons Excommunicat, and standing in that estate (if justly) are by consequence in the case of damna­tion, yea so as (dying resolutly in these poynts) they must needes be damned everlastingly. Either therefore the Prelats shall shew themselues to be Antichristiā, and that in a high degree, in sending without any mercy or compassi­on so many thowsand soules, with the dash of a pen, to Hell, it being in their power to keepe them out; or excee­dingly presumptuous, in denouncing such a sentence a­gainst those whō they cannot but know & oftentimes do confesse, to be the true servants of God; or at the least it standeth them upon diligently to use all good meanes for the recovery of so many soules out of Hell, especially then, when, by such an Offer as this is, they hold up their hands out of the pit, desiring to be pulled out.

22 Last of all, the Propositions being so plainly and di­stinctly layd downe, and so directly opposite to the pro­fession of the Prelats; they having also so often disgraced the Ministers for their paucitie, and povertie of gifts and learning, and so often vaunted of the multitudes of great learned men on their side, and by that meanes having far greater choyse of sufficient and able men then the Mini­sters haue; and being better able to furnish them with all needfull helps to such a worke, and the poynts in Con­troversie so neerely touching their Iurisdiction, state, and dignitie, which is so deare and pretious unto them; also the Offer that is made unto them being so equall, just, and Christian, if they shall refuse to yeeld unto the same, & in steed thereof afflict the persons which humbly make this Offer unto them, they shall therein proclaime to all the world, that in these their proceedings they haue sinned & doe sinne with a high hand and malicious heart, (contra­ry [Page 23]to knowledge and conscience) against God and his Di­vine truth: and therefore are to be judged to be at the next dore of committing that unpardonable sinne, which the Prelats, in the time of our Saviour Christs being up­on the earth, in the like cases committed. From which if it be the good will of God (notwithstanding all the evill which they haue done against these poore servants of Christ, and the Churches of God committed to their charge) they pray carnestly that they may quit thēselues, and that, upon their repentance in this life, they may at­taine unto such a crowne of glory, as they in their consci­ences are perswaded is layd up for some of those, whom they use now living in the world as Heathens & Infidels.

4. AN ANSWER TO SVCH OPPO­SITIONS, AS MAY BE MADE BY THE Prelats, against yeelding to the aforesaid Offer.

1. OPPOSITION.

The reverend Fathers of the Church, before they proceed­ed to suspension and deprivation of the Ministers, used godly ad­monitions, exhortations, & arguments to perswade them to con­formitie, answering whatsoever they could then obiect, why they should not conforme. Therefore what neede they now to enter into that trouble againe?

ANSWER.

This is not true.

  • I. They neuer vsed any one Argu­mēt 1 to the purpose, but such as hath been suffici­ently answered we know not how often.
  • 2. Their 2 [Page 24]Admonitions were meere formall; wherin also the Mini­sters were exceedingly wronged: divers of them (who were very poore men, and some of their livings not aboue 40. som 30. some 20. pounds by the yeare, & their charge of wife, children, and family very great) being forced to come in the depth of winter 9. or 10. times, yea some ofte­ner, unto their Pallaces, some of them 30. some 40. some 50. miles and more to receaue their Admonitions, and at length their deprivations for their labor.
  • 3. We desire 3 that the Prelats would publish to the view of all the world those Arguments which they used, and the Mini­sters did not, or could not answer.
  • 4. This is a most cer­taine truth, & wilbe justified to the faces of them all, that many of the Ministers demanded of them Reasons and Arguments, according to the forme of the Kings Procla­mation, and they refused to giue any: yea divers of them sundry times offered their Propositions, and Reasons to the Prelats, promising, upō their reasonable answer, with out any further question to Conforme; and to this day they never gaue them any.
  • 5. This may the more incite 5 them to accept of this Offer: for by this meanes they may make knowne to the world those great Arguments and Resolutions, which then they used, and may set them downe with mature and advised deliberation, to the ho­nor of their proceedings.
  • 6. The only Argument to pur­pose 6 that they used, was this, that it was his Majesties pleasure it should be so: thereby laying the imputation and envie of their unjust proceedings upon him.

2. OPPOSITION.

The Ministers can say noe more then they haue said & writ­ten [Page 25]already, and which we haue answered often. And why then should we try these things any further?

ANSWER.

  • 1. This is more then the Prelats know. Some of the Ministers 1 haue lately said more to some poynts, then hath been said before. And upon such occasions as may be of­fered by such a Conference, they may say more thē they haue said yet.
  • 2. The prelats, by their corrupt answers in 2 their late published writings, haue given them occasion to say more, then yet hath been said.
  • 3. This they are 3 able to make good, that that which they haue said alrea­die, hath not been answered as yet; and therfore this Cō ­ference is desired that these matters may be further tried.

3. OPPOSITION.

It is dangerous that matters established by Law should be thus called into question, and disputed of as matters doubtfull.

ANSWER.

  • 1. These matters are not now newly called into ques­tion,1 but they haue been from time to time opposed a­gainst, and so will be to the end of the world; at least wise so long as so many Churches of God in other Kingdoms professe and practise as they doe; and the rather because many great and famous Lights of the Church, both be­yond Seas and at home, in their Monuments that shall last to all posteritie, haue testifyed against them. This therefore is not to call a matter, which is out of question, [Page 26]into question, but to call a matter already in question, to a direct and finall determination.
  • 2. It cannot but be ra­ther 2 very profitable vnto any State (such rules and condi­tions, as are here propounded, being observed) to debate and dispute, in such a maner as this is, of any humane law whatsoever. For by this meanes, if a law be iust, it wilbe an honor vnto it to haue the iustice therof manifested; if vniust, it may be abrogated. And how cōmeth it to passe, that so many lawes of man are abrogated by man, if whē once a Law is enacted, it may not be called into questiō? Iust Lawes grounded vppon equitie, reason, & the word of God never dread examination, but vniust and Anti­christian Lawes do.
  • 3. These matters were never yet so 3 established by law, as is pretended, but only tolerated: it being the intent of the first retainers of these Reliques of popery, in time to abolish them. And since the 14. yere of hir late Maiesties Raigne, the High Court of Par­liament and the state of this Kingdome (who only, with the assent of the King, haue power to make and abrogate Lawes, whether Civill or Ecclesiasticall) haue euer shew­ed themselues readie to ease the Churches of these burd­ens, which vnder the name of things established by Law are impose vpon them by the Prelats. Only the Prelars, hauing many voyces of their owne in the vpper Howse, haue, by their grosse flatteryes & fayned promises to the in Chiefe place, ever crossed the holy endeavors of the Parliament for the removall of these burdens, grievous both to Church and Commonweale.
  • 4. It is ordinary 4 in our Universities to admit of argumentatiō against any poynt of Religion and Faith; and that in such a maner, as is more dangerous to the truth, and lesse indifferent, then this forme that is heere offered.

4. OPPOSITION.

If Schismaticks and factious persons may haue this favour, why then may not Brownists, Anabaptists, and Papists exspect the same?

ANSWER

  • 1. They Ministers deny themselues to be Schismatiks, & 1 shall at any time iustifie themselues to be as honest men, and as dutifull & loyall subjects as any Prelat in the King­dom.
  • 2. The thing they desire is no favor, but that which in justice is to be yeelded vnto thē: Neither shall they get 2 any good, but hurt by it, except the truth be on their side.
  • 3. It were a shame for a state professing the true Religion publikly, to deny to the free subiects thereof, desiring it, such an indifferent hearing of their opinions, as this is, be 3 they of the Separation, or Anabaptists, or what they may be. For if the Heathen had not, much lesse should true Christans haue any such law, to condemne any sect or faction whatsoever, before they heare them: and heare them they doe not, that will refuse to admit of such an in­different Offer as this is. And it is a shame of shames to the Doctors of Oxford, who provoking those whom they call Brownists, in their Answer to the Ministers Pe­tition, and being challenged of dishonestie and iniustice in an Answer therevnto, have not in all this time iustified themselues, & answered that which the other say in their owne defence; it being so grauely, moderatly, and dis­creetly set downe. How much greater shame & reproch would it be, to refuse such a direct kinde of triall as this is, tyed to so strict rules, so preiudiciall to error, & of so great [Page 28]advantage to the truth.

5. OPPOSITION.

This Offer argues only a willfull obstinacie of persons that will never be satisfied, and content with reason. For was not (ac­cording to their owne seeking) their cause handled & heard in the Conference at Hampton Court, his Maiestie him selfe moderat­ing the action, and answering whatsoever, in these points their owne Agents could obiect? what would they more?

ANSWER.

  • 1 1. In their objecting to the Ministers the Conference at Hampton Court, they object to them, as it were, that which is Non Ens: None of them knowing what it was, nor any other faue a few that were present, whose reports thereof are also so diuerse, that one spoyles the credit of another. And that which is set forth as the true report of it, being published onely by the Prelates (who are parti­all) without the knowledge, aduise, or consent of the o­ther side, deserues no credit; the rather considering that D. Morton hath bene allowed to call some part of it into question, even some speeches fathered vpon his Maiestie, which he was faine to confute as vnsound and contrary to divinitie. Wherin sith the Kings owne speeches be, as it seemeth, grossely abused by the author, it is much more likly that speeches of other men are abused. Besides, none but Prelats, and such as were partiall, being present at the first dayes Conference, there can be no credit at all given to the report thereof: for it is more then apparant, that they haue fraudulently cut of, and concealed all the [Page 29]speeches (which were many) that his Maiestie vttered a­gainst the corruptiōs of our Church, & practise of the Prelats: as appeareth by that testimony of the Deane of the Chappell, which he gaue therof, saying, That his Maiestie did that day wonderfully play the Puritan. But if he playd that part no otherwise then is specified in the Prelats re­port, he acted it very poorely, or rather never a whitt. If therefore they would haue had the Ministers to stand to the determination of that Conference, they should haue vsed more indifferencie and honestie in the Relation of it, then they haue don; they should at least haue made it appeare by mutuall testimonie of all sides, that it was a true act. For they haue no reasō to belieue such enemies, as the Prelats haue shewed themselues to be vnto them, any further then they see them.
  • 2. Such a conference as 2 that, was never desired by the Ministers; And it seemes by the whole managing of it, that it was vnderhand plot­ted and procured by the Prelats themselues; abusing ther­in his Maiestie, and vsing M. Galloway as an instrument in the matter, to the end that they might haue the more colour for their intended proceedings afterwards. And there is great probabilitie of this, for that the Archbishop professed to the Committies of both Howses, the last ses­sion, that he had the letters written from M. Cartwright to M. Galloway about that matter.
  • 3. Most of the persons, appoynted to speake for the Ministers, were not 3 of their chosing, nor nomination, nor of their iudgment in the matters then and now in question, but of a cleane contrary. For being intreated at that time by the Mini­sters to dispute against these things, as things simply evill and such as cannot be yeelded vnto without sinne; they professed to them, that they were not so perswaded, and [Page 30]therefore could not so doe. Being then requested, to let his Majesty understand that some of their brethren were further perswaded touching the unlawfulnes of these things, then themselues were; they refused that also. Last­ly being intreated either to giue them in writing their reasons to proue these thinges indifferent, or to giue them an answere in writing to such reasons as they would giue them in writing, to proue them simply euill; they would doe neither the one nor the other; so that there neither was, nor could be any hope of good by that conference.
  • 4 4. The matters in controversy were not in that Confe­rence throughly debated, but nakedly propoūded, & som not at all touched: neither was there any one Argument 5 to the purpose followed in the same.
  • 5. The Prelats took vnto them selues liberty to interrupt, at their pleasure, those of the other side; insomuch that they were checked 9 for it by his Maiestie.
  • 6. The Ministers (if his Maiestie will giue them leaue) will at any time, in one weeks space, deliuer to his Maiestie in writing a full answere to any Argument, or Assertion, propounded in that Conference against them by any Prelate: and they do here plainely professe that all and every one of them are most vaine and frivolous.

6. OPPOSITION.

These Ministers, by oppugning the Prelats, doe openly dis­grace the Government of his Maiestie, and the whole State: and therefore noe such favor is to be yeelded to them.

ANSWER.

  • 1 1. If the aforesaid Propositions be all of them true, & [Page 31]such as will be iustifyed by the written word of God, thē the Ministers (who heerein seeke nothing but the bare defence of that truth contayned in them, which is of so great importance) cannot be truly charged with any vn­dutifull behavior toward King or State: if they be not true, this tryall will make it manifest to all men, and that to the greater shame of these Ministers.
  • 2. They doubt 2 not (whatsoever the Prelats shall intimate to the contra­ry) but that this Conference will much redound to the Honor of his Maiesties person, and Governmēt. For by it that truth shall appeare, which (how soever it hath been generally receaved in other Churches abroad) hath been hitherto either vnknowen among vs, or much obscured by the Prelats & their friends; albeit it doth indeed con­cerne, and that deeply, the true ordinary meanes of saving our soules.
  • 3. The Ministers are heerein so far from seek­ing 3 to disgrace the King or his Gouernment, that they would esteeme it a singular blessing of God, if they might be so happy, as to obtaine that the aforesaid Propositions (containing in them the nature of Christs true Visible Church, Ministerie, and Worship) may, by his Maiesties speciall order and appointment, be examined and deter­mined, in such a most reasonable and vnpartiall Confe­rence, as before is tendered: wherevnto they make no question but they shall finde his Maiestie willing inough, if the Prelats do not vnder hand procure him to hinder it.

7. OPPOSITION.

It is not meet that the Governors of the Church should in this maner debase themselues vnto such meane and privat persōs.

ANSWER.

  • 1 1. They are no privat persons, being publike Minis­ters of the Gospell; and diuers of them of as good estima­tion in the Schooles for their knowledge in Divinitie and Humanitie, and as reverend for their yeares, as any of the 2 Prelats are.
  • 2. Some of the principall of the Prelats haue already more disgraced themselues in this kinde, thē they should by yeelding to such a Conference as this is. The Bishop of Winchester (as is well knowen) vndertooke the Answer of M. Iacobs last booke. The Bishop of London professed openly in his Cōsistory, that he would shake out of the raggs that booke, which the Ministers of Lincolne Dioces delivered to his Maiestie, the Abridgment whereof is published in print. Doctor Felton also at the request of the Archbishop vndertooke to answer the Treatise of Di­vine worship: which bookes maintaine and defend in sub­stance the aforesaid propositions. And though two years are now allmost past, yet noe Answer to any of them ap­peareth.
  • 3. The Prelats may chose whether themselues 3 will personally deale in the Conference or not; they may assigne heerevnto their ordinarie Champions, who haue for their preferment alreadie put forth themselues in the cause: And who (for greater hopes) wilbe ready to vn­dergoe this service.

8. OPPOSITION.

This very Offer is enough to iustifie the former proceeding; of the Reverend Fathers against the Ministers, and to manifest how intolerable they are in this state. They pretended, in their [Page 33]first Petition to his Maiesty no desire of innovation of the Go­vernment, but only the remouall of a few Ceremonies, and some other supposed corruptions. Now they haue manifested their hy­pocrisie to all the world; which the Bishops foreseeing thought it needfull to take this course against them. For nothing will satisfy these fellowes, but either the overthrowe of Bishops, or at least wise their freedome from them. And therefore can any blame the Bi­shops, if they giue them the same measure, that they, if they had the power in their hands, would mete vnto them?

ANSWER.

  • 1. If the Ministers doe now cut deeper at the roote of 1 the Prelacie, thē heretofore they haue done, it is because, since their late proceedings, they haue seene more into the mysterie of injquitie, that worketh in their spirituall Dominion, then ever they saw before: And therfore they must thanke themselues for it.
  • 2. It is now made mani­fest 2 to the whole world, that there is no hope of freedom from the spirituall bondage of Antichristian Traditions, so long as the Prelats sit in their Thrones, but a more dire­full expectation of greater slaverie and servitude, then e­ver before, as may appeare by the late Canons and their o­ther proceedings. And therefore howsoever some reve­rend Ministers nourish still many hopes, that the Prelats will at length shew mercy, and be content to let them in joy the libertie of their consciences, and suffer them to exercise a Ministerie under them; yet they that make this Offer seeing no likelyhood nor possibilitie of any such matter, but of the cleane contrarie (the Prelats having in so high a degree blasphemed and persecuted this truth of God) they thinke themselues now bound in conscience [Page 34]by all honest & good meanes to seeke to be freed frō that estate, which cannot (as it appeares now to all the world) uphold it selfe,
    G. Powel Adiaph. [...]ef.
    but by the ruine of the Gospell, and exalta­tion of Antichristianisme. For they that plead for their Go­vernment and Traditions are driven to hold these impi­ous and irreligious Absurdities;
    D. Covil, [...]ainst the [...]ea of the [...]n: pa. 19.
    *That Christ is not the Law­giver of his Church:! That it is a vertuous obedience, to rest as well in that which the Church commandeth unto us, as in that which God commandeth to his Church:
    Hutton, [...] the Cross, [...]g 3.4
    "That the Church is ruled by the spirit of Christ, who is the truth; and therefore her Traditions are true and holy:
    Hooker, [...]ef. pag 28.
    [...] That God alloweth men to doe that which in their private iudgment it seemeth; yea and per­haps truely seemeth,B. Roch. [...]ermon at [...]ampton [...]ourt, p. 31.that the Law doth disallow. § That vnwrit ten Ordinances, aswell as written, are Divine and Apo­stolike in the constitution of the chiefest Office, and Mi­nisterie of the Church.
  • 3. They doe no further desire 3 their freedom from the Prelats, & from that power which they haue, then they shall be able to proue, that it is lifted up against the Doctrine and Kingdome of Christ our Lord.
  • 4. They leaue their overthowe to God and the 4 King; and doe only by these premisses labor, that that truth, which hath been amongst vs long suppressed and af­flicted, may come to light, and may be so honored and freed at last, as God requireth that it should be.
  • 5. If the 5 Callings of the Prelats be warrantable, and of Divine or­dinance (as Bishop Barlow avoucheth in his late Ser­mon) then the yeelding vnto this Offer wilbe a notable meanes to establish the same, and can no wayes be dero­gatory vnto it: for no Divine ordinance will fly or feare any such Tryall. But if it be vnlawfull (as it will be suppo­sed of all men to be, even in the cōsciences of the Prelats, if they shall refuse this Offer) thē indeed this Tryall can [Page 35]be no meanes to iustify the Prelats, who ought in such a case either to giue ouer their places, or at least to suffer those, that haue their consciences perswaded of the vn­lawfulnes of their Callinges, to be free, even as Christ hath made them free both from them and their Govern­ment.

9. OPPOSITION.

This Offer proceeds from them who wilbe satisfyed with no­thing. If they should haue the Discipline granted them, and all that they desire, they would not stay there; that would not contēt them. At the first they stood vpon a few Ceremonies only; after this they cryed downe with Bishops; and when they haue their de sire in this, then let the King looke to himselfe.

ANSWER.

  • 1. This is but a malicious surmise of that whereof there 1 is noe ground; the Propositions before set downe make­ing it more then manifest, that as the Ministers haue not any the least intention to impeach the Royall dignity, so likewise they doe much more advance the same indeed, thē the Prelats do.
  • 2. The practise of all other Reformed 2 Churches, inioying the Discipline which is desired, con­futeth this slanderous obiection; in as much as they rest content under the same without seeking, or indeauoring, any vaine or rebellious innovation.
  • 3. Though some Mi­nisters 3 haue stoode upon the Ceremonies onely, yet ma­ny of them haue from time to time witnessed vehement­ly and in speciall maner against the Prelacie, according as God hath opened their understanding in this point, [Page 36]though som of them at the first did not sufficiently consi­der how unlawfull and unwarrantable it is: and this is no more preiudiciall either to them or to the cause, then it was to the Apostle Paul for teaching that doctrine after­ward, which at first he understood not: or to those now professing the Gospell, who in times past haue bene igno­rant 4 Papistes, & enemies to the trueth.
  • 4. The Ministers desire not that either the Discipline, or any thing els should be yeelded unto them, or that they should haue their willes satisfied in any thing, further then they are able to proue the thing (for want whereof they are unsatisfied) to be due unto them by the word of God. And so far forth they thinke it lawfull for them, or any els, to shew themselues unsatisfied: it being a grieuous Sinne for any, in matters of Religion and meanes of Saluation, to con­tent themselues with lesse, then God will haue them to be content withall. The Ordinances of God will con­tent them sufficiently; and nothing will discontent them but to be depriued of any of the same, they all being ordi­nary meanes of Saluation. And is it not an Antichristian spirit, that would binde men to any other Content? If in their discontent they desire any thing that God doth not require them to desire, there may be as many meanes 5 found then, as now, to bridle their desires.
  • 5. Their advis­ing the King to looke to himselfe, when Ceremonies & Diocesan Bishops are downe, is a Scarcrow, fitter to fright Dawes away, then to hinder so wise a Majesty from yeelding his furtherance to so Christian an Offer. The Ministers therefore doe heere againe professe to all the world, that they no further desire the overthrowe of the Prelats, then they shall proue that their standing is dero­gatory both to Christ & to the King; and that they take [Page 37]nothing from the Prelats, but what they giue to Christ, his Church, the King, & the Civill Magistrats vnder him: the Prelats unjustly keeping that from them, which by the word of God is their due, and which the said Mini­sters are readie to yeeld unto them, before they desire to see the overthrow of the Prelats: who (we doubt not) will appeare to be enemyes (though in a mysterie) to God, to the King, and to his people, even in their very Callings and Offices.

10. OPPOSITION.

Shall we hearken to the Offer of such as are not yet agreed amongst themselues what they would haue? There are not two of them of one minde: and therefore it is to no purpose to hearken unto them. Let them first agree amongst themselues, and tell us what they would haue, and then they shall be heard.

ANSWER.

  • 1 They are all agreed alreadie vpon these poynts: that 1 the Ceremonies are scandalous, and ought, by those that are in authoritie, to be removed; that the Ecclesiasticall Government of other reformed Churches is more agree­able to the word of God, then the Government by Dio­cesan Prelates; that Pluralists, Nonresidents, and dumbe Ministers ought not to be tolerated in any Christian Church; that it is fitter we should conforme our selues to other Reformed Churches in our Liturgie, Ceremonies, & Discipline, then to the accursed Synagogue of Rome. Their differences are onely about the maner of maintay­ning these pointes. Let them hearken to the Ministers [Page 38]in the things wherin they all are alreadie agreed, and they will not trouble them with any disagreements: Yea, they shall finde, that in their differences they will agree better 2 then they would haue them.
  • 2. If they disagree so a­mong themselues, as the Prelats would beare men in hād, they haue the lesse cause to feare them, & may with more hope of prevailing enter into this Tryall with them. But the truth is, that their differences are neither halfe so ma­ny, nor halfe so great, as those that be among the Prelats.

11. OPPOSITION.

Either their Propositions are false, and sufficiently confuted by their owne practise; or if they be true, then why doe they ioynt to our Church, which is gouerned by the Prelates? why doe they desire to execute a publike Ministery under them? why doe they not wholly with the Brownists separate, and get them to Amster­dam to their holy brethren there.

ANSWER.

  • 1 1. The practise of the Ministers herein is no way contrary to their Propositiōs: & this is a most desperate shift in the 2 Prelats, to press thē herewith.
  • 2. They protest (to the shāe of the Prelats, & to the testifying of their charitable loue to those of the Ministerie, which are otherwise minded thē themselues) that they are perswaded, that many of the Conforming Ministers are (notwithstanding the great de­fects, and corruptions in their calling and standing) true Ministers of Iesus Christ, and indued with gifts from hea­ven for that holy functiō; And that the Churches which they teach (howsoever in their Constitution very defec­tiue [Page 39]and unperfect) are true Churches; whose willing sub­jecting themselues unto their Ministerie maketh the very outward calling it selfe of the said Ministers to be such as it is. And therefore so long as (their consciences being in the meane time vnconvinced of these their errors where­in they stād) God taketh not away their Ministeriall gifts frō them, and so long as their Churches cleaue unto them (though in their entrance & continuance they were, and are guiltie of much sinne, in approving by Conformitie and Subscription the Iurisdiction of Prelats) they thinke it not just wholly to separate from them and their Mini­sterie, but are content, though with some griefe and sor­row, so far forth to joyne with them in the worship of God, as they can without their personall Communion with them in those corruptions, which in their weaknes they yeeld vnto.
  • 3. If the Prelats shall still hold the things 3 in question in such sort as of late they haue done, & shall vrge them so hotely as they begin; both the Ministers & many of the people wilbe forced to leaue their ordinary standing in these Churches. In which regard they hum­bly pray that they may be exempted from the Prelats, & may haue liberty granted vnto them by the King, to serue God according to his owne will revealed in his word, without any Humane Traditions. As for that publique Ministerie derived from the Prelats, besides that it cannot be entered into without yeelding to corruption & sinne, it is also very defectiue, &, to speake the truth, little more then a halfe Ministerie, if it be compared with the Pasto­rall Office commanded and commended vnto vs by the Holy Ghost. Which the Ministers discerning, and percea­ving plainly that there is litle or no cōfort to be had in the exercising of such a Ministerie, as hitherto they haue in­joyed [Page 40]they are bold to make their humble Suite to his Maiestie, that they may be freed from the Prelats vsurpa­tion over them, and may be vnder the guidance & Cen­sure of the Civill Magistrats; unles by such an indifferent Tryall as is heere Offered, the Prelats shall iustify their Callings and Courses to be of God.

12. OPPOSITION.

A vaine thing it is to yeeld to any such Offer. For who must iudge on which side the truth is. They name none; And when they haue been heard to oppose and Answer what they can, they will not stand to any mans definitiue sentence, but will continue obsti­nate still.

ANSWER.

  • 1 1. In desiring that the whole cariage of this intended Conference may be published, they make all the world to be Iudges thereof; even the Prelats and the Papists them selues, & all that shall read the same.
  • 2. They do not think 2 it lawfull in any matter of Religion, much lesse in matters of so great consequence, to settle their consciences vpon the definitiue sentence of any person absolutely: that is, so far as to renounce any thing which they haue believed, because such or such iudge it to be otherwise. For so they might both headily & wilfully betray the truth of Christ, and inthrall themselues to error, and also detract from Christ and his blessed word their proper right, and giue it unto men. It should therefore content any Christianly affected man, that the Ministers are content to offer their Defence of these poynts to the view of all, to skan and to [Page 41]weigh thē, and so far forth to judge therof, as (if their rea­sons do not satisfie them) to giue them leaue to condēne them of error: which wilbe a Iudgment heavie enough to them, if notwithstanding they shall still persist in their former opinions.
  • 3. It may please God, that by the evi­dence and force of those Arguments or Answers that shal 3 be propounded, both sides may thinke themselues satisfi­ed, and one side yeeld. If the Prelates haue this grace to yeeld, then his Majesty & the State know best what they haue to doe in such a Case. If the Ministers yeeld, then the greatest matter that can be expected of them, is Sub­mission and Conformity: which if they shall refuse, the Law is open; so that in this case there needes no Defini­tiue sentence of a Iudge. It both sides rest vnsatisfied, and continew perswaded still, that the truth is on their side, it were impious for either side in such a case to commit the absolute determination therof vnto the will and pleasure of any man or men whomsoeuer. And it were vniust for either side, to require Iudges either incompetent, or not indifferent. For as the Prelats might iustly (except they would wilfully betray their owne cause) refuse such to be Iudges, as haue in any degree inclined more to the Minis­ters then to them; so may the Ministers in like maner as iustly refuse to stand to the Iudgment and determination of such, as incline more to the Prelats then to them; much more of such, as haue shewed themselues maine patrons and vpholders of the Prelats, and adversaries to the Mi­nisters. Sith therfore the Prelats can not set forth any per­son, or persons, to whom it is meet to commit the abso­lute determination of so great a cause, it were very vniust, and vnequall, to binde the Ministers to stand to the judg­ment of those that are partiall.
  • 4. It is needles to name 4 [Page 42]Iudges: his Maiestie, the Civill Magistrats vnder him, and the High Court of Parliament (though the Ministers should appeale from them) would in this case judge thē, and their Cause, yea and are bound soe to doe. Whose Iudgment if it goe against the Ministers, and it appeare to be righteous; the more they shall neglect the same, and refuse to submit themselues vnto it, the more grosse & re­fractary they shall shew themselues to be: and with the more honor and credit may the State ioyne with the Prelats, in making and executing Lawes for the suppressing of them, and their Errors; which is as much advantage as any Christian can de­syre over any Enemies of the truth. And what would the Prelats haue more?
Prov. 19.21.

Many devises are in a mans heart; but the Counsell of the Lord shall stand.

Math: 22:21.

Giue unto Caesar the thinges which are Caesars; and giue unto God those things which are Gods.

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