VVhy come you not to Church?

What ſhould I do there?

VVorſhip God.

I muſt worſhip God as he requireth, ād not as any mortal man requireth.

True, but the worſhip that wee require you to offer vp, is the vvorſhip, God requireth.

If it be ſo, I wil withal willingnes aſſēt vnto it, but my conſcience muſt be ſatiſfied there of by the word of truth, that I may have faith in it, other wiſe it is my grevious ſai. Rom. 14.23. For I may not beleeve it ſo to be becauſe you affirme it.

VVell you muſt go to Church, othervviſe you are diſobedient to the law, & vvil fall vnder puniſhment.

But ſtill remember that you would have me worſhip God as you pretend, therefore let vs agree what worſhip God requireth: Chriſt ſaith. Ioh 4.24. God is a ſpirit, & they that worſhip him, muſt worſhip him in ſpirit & truth. Here wee ſee what worſhip God requireth, viz: That wee worſhip him with our ſoules and Spirits, and alſo that we worſhip him according to the truth of his word: And therefore for your booke worſhip: If it were according to truth, (from the which it is as far as light is from darknes) yet if I cannot offer it vp with my Spirit it is not acceptable to God, but moſt abhominable.

I pray let aſke you a queſtion, do you ſeeke the glory of God, and the ſalvation of my ſoule herein, or your owne obedience?

I ſeeke the glory of God, and the ſalvation of your ſoule, & not my ovvne obedience.

Then manifeſt it, no by words onely, but by deeds and truth, which if you do, you will not threaten me puniſhmēt to cauſe me to come, but with meekenes and patience ſatiſfye my conſcience by the word of truth, (for this is the duety of the Miniſt. of Chriſt. 2. Tim. 2.24.) that I may come with a willing mynd, ſo ſhall I be accepted. 2. Cor. 8.12. Pſal. 110.3. For if by threatning me puniſhment as impriſonment, baniſhment, or death, you cauſe me to bring my bodie, and not my ſpirit or ſoule, ſo ſhall I come neere to the Lord with my lips, when my hart ſhall be far from him, which he accompteth vaine worſhip and hipocriſie. Mat. 15.

I perceive what you aime at, you would have none brought to Church, but ſuch as come willingly of themſelves, ſo should every man worſhip God as himſelf pleaſeth.

Your concluſion I aime not at, for I acknowledg that as there is but one God, ſo there is but one way of worſhipping him, out of the which way, whoſoever is ād repēteth not there of ſhal pay a deare price, and therefore it ſtādeth all Men vpon not to pleaſe themſelves in worſhipping him. But you perceive aright that I aime at this, that none ſhould bee compelled to worſhip God: but ſuch as come willingly for I will (by Gods aſſiſtance) prove moſt evidētly by the Scriptures, that none ought nor can bee compelled to worſhip God to acceptance, by any worldly meanes whatſoever.

Prove that.

Wel I prove that I have affirmed, thus: Firſt Heb. 11.6. Without faith it is vnpoſſible to pleaſe God, and Rom. 14.23. Whatſoever is not of faith is ſin. Theſe two Scriptures prove moſt evidētly that whatſoever I have not faith in inworſhiping God although it were vndoubtedly true, I may not offer it vp vnto God, for it is diſpleaſing to him, and it is ſin againſt him: as alſo it appeareth plainely by him, that came into the Kings ſupper and wāted his wedding garment. Mat. 22.

It is the Kings law that you muſt go to Church, & therefore you muſt bee obedient.

The intent of the Kings law is not ſo, as appeareth both by the ſtatute for the oath of allegiance, and alſo by his Maties. owne words, manifeſted in his Apologie for the oath of allegiance, as hereafter is more fullie declared. For if the intent of the law were to make me come to Church to worſhip God, and not of faith, the intent of the law were to cōpell me to ſin, which his Matie. requireth not.

I deny not but whatſoever is not off Faith is ſinne, but vvee vvould have you come to Church, to vvorſhip God of faith.

It is not ſo, you regard not whether I have faith or no, for if you did, you would not vrge the Kings law againſt me, which is but a carnal weapon, and cannot beger faith, ād there fore is no ſure ground of faith. For in my obedience to God I muſt not preſume above that that is written. 1. Cor. 4.6. For the VVord of God is the onely ground of faith Rom. 10.17. and therefore if you would have me come of faith, you would onely vrge the law of the King of Kings againſt mee.

Hath not all the Learned of the Land conſidered of theſe things, & ſet thē dovvne, are ſuch ſimple men as you likely to ſee more then all theſe?

I demaund of you whether they bee not all ſubject to err as all men are, and therefore I muſt try their ſpirits, whether they er or no. 1. joh. 4.1. For I may not hold, either that they cannot err, or that if I find them to err I muſt obey them notwithſtanding, do you not herein teach me that Popiſh and accurſed doctrine, that you invaigh ſo much againſt in the Papiſts, that I muſt beleeve as the learned of the land beleeves.

I do not hold that they cannot err

Yes you hold either that they cannot err, or if they do err, I muſt obey them, for if I do not obey them you threaten me puniſhment.

Nay, but I hold that they being learned do not err, & therefore you muſt obey them.

Then this is your argument: The learned do not err, and therefore muſt be obeyed. The 2 bs: and the reſt of that rāck are learned ād do not err, ād therefore they muſt be obeyed: another arg: as vaine as this may be collected from this ground. The learned do not err, and therefore muſt be obeyed. The Pope and the reſt of that rancke are learned, (yea as learned as yours) ād do not err, and therefore they muſt be obeyed. The one is as true as the other, but both abhominable. If you prove that they that want this learning, muſt not meddle with the waies of God, but as theſe learned men teach them, then indeed you ſaid ſome thinge, but if you cannot, as moſt certen it is, you cannot. For the word of God is againſt you herein, then for ſhame to God and Mē, leave of your cruell perſecuting, for why do you perſecute Men that cannot of faith ſubmit to your direction concerning the waies of God, vpon which conſiſteth their ſalvation if they walke in the true way of faith with love thereof, and their condemnation if they walke in by path.

Then I perceive if a mā can pleade that he hath not faith in any thing which the King commaunds he need not be obedient.

Would God all Men could ſee your dealing herein, this is your vſuall courſe, whē your mouth is ſtopped by the power of Gods word that you knowe not what to anſwere, then you runn to the Kings comaund, and ſo make your matters good, like vnto your predeceſſors the wicked Scribes and Phariſies, who when our Lord and Maiſter had ſtopped their monethes that they had no word of anſwere, then they ſought to make him a treſpaſſer againſt Ceſar, but I have learned in ſome weake meaſure, that as there is a Ceſar vnto whome of conſcience I muſt be obediēt, ſo there is another king, one Ieſus, that is King of Kings, vnto whome if you will not be obedient in giveing vnto God that which is Gods, he will te • r • you in peeces, when there shal bee none that can deliver you, & caſt you into the lake that burneth with Fire & brimſtone for ever more, where th • re shalbe no reſt day nor night, and therefore agree with this your adverſarie quickly, whilſt you are in the vvay vvith him.

The power ād authority of the King is earthly, and God hath comaunded me to ſubmit to all Ordinances off Man. 1. Pet. 2.13. • 4. And therefore I have faith to ſubmit to what ordinance of Man ſoever the King comaunds, if it bee an humane Ordinance, and not againſt the manifeſt word of God, let him require what he will, I muſt of cōſciēce obey him, with my bodie goods and all that I have: But my ſoule wherewith I am to worſhip God, that belōgeth to another King, vvhoſe kingdome is not off this VVorld Ioh 18.36. VVhoſe people muſt come vvillingly. Pſal. 110.3. VVhoſe vveapons are not carnall but Spirituall. 2. Cor. 10.4. etc.

Is this all the authority that you vvill give to the King?

What authoritie can any mortall Man require more, then of bodie, goods, life, and all that apperteyneth to the outward Man? The hart God requireth. Pro. 23.26. He comaunded to give vnto Ceſar things that are Ceſars, & to himſelf the things that are his. Lvk. 20.25. Now if al the outward man bee Ceſars, and the inward man too, ſo that he muſt be obeyed in his owne matters, and in Gods matters alſo, then tell vs what ſhall be given to God? If you or any mā will give him more power or authority then I give him, then you give him more then his Matie. requireth, as ſhalbee ſhewed.

Wee do not ſay that the King can compell the Soule, but onely the outward Man.

If he cannot compel my ſoule, he cannot compel me to worſhip God, for God cannot bee worſhipped without the ſoule. Ioh. 4 24. jf you ſay he may compel me to offer vp a worſhip onely with my bodie, (for the ſpirit you confeſſe he cannot compell) to whome is that worſhip? not to God. Then conſider you who they worſhip that are thus compelled, (ſay you by the King.) Let it well be here obſerved that you make the King a comaunder of ſuch worſhip, as is not to God, contrary to his Maties. owne mynd manifeſt in his writings. But this you do, not to advance Gods glory nor the kings honor, but your owne curſed kingdome of darknes, which you hold by flattery ād falſhood. For if this cōpelled worſhip (which is not to God) were takē away then your kingdome would fal to hel frō whēce it came, and therefore all Men map here ſee it is ſupported onely by wickednes.

I confeſſe the Kings authority is earthly, but he is head over the Church vnder Chriſt.

God forbid that any mortall Man ſhould ſo equallize himſelf with Chriſt, who allone is Head of his church, as the Huſband is of the VVife. Ephe. 5 23. And hath left no o • e-gecent in that his office, for he is never abſent frō his Church. Mat. 18.20. and 28.20. All that any mortal Mā can be, is to be a ſubject of his Kingdome, for their is but one Lord. 1. Cor. 12.5. & one law-giver Iam. 3.12. And that this is ſo, his Matie. confirmeth by his owne teſtimony, in his Apologie for the oath of allegeance Pag. 46.47. But as I wel allowe of the Hyrarchie of the church for diſtjuctiō of orders, (for ſo I vnderſtand it) ſo I vtterly deny that there is any earthly Monarch thereof, whoſe word muſt bee a law, and who cannot err in his ſentence by an infallibility of ſpirit • : becauſe earthly kingdomes muſt have earthly Monarchs, it doth not followe that the church muſt have a viſible Monarch too: For the VVorld hath not one earthly temporall Monarch, Chriſt is his Churches Monarch, & the Holy ghoſt his deputie. The Kings of the gentiles reigne over them, but ye shall not be ſo. Luk. 22.25. Chriſt did not promiſſe before his aſſention to leave Peter with them to direct & inſtruct them in all thinges, but he promiſſed to ſend the Holy ghoſt vnto them for that end. Theſe are his highnes owne words, whereby it evidently appeareth his Matie challengeth no ſupremacie over the Church, but laboreth to overthrowe that abhominable exaltacion of that Man of ſin, in the Romiſh profeſſiō, for Chriſt hath given no ſupremacie in or over his Church, to any mortall man, but expreſly commaunded the contrary as the place of Luk mencioned by his Matie. plainely declareth.

His highnes is ſupreame head and gouvernor over all his ſubjects bodies and goods, within his dominions, and therein I deteſt and abhorr all forraigne powers whatſoever.

But now for the thinge in controverſie betwixt you and me, of compelling Men by perſecutions to do ſervice to God (as is pretended) wherein they have not faith, it ſhalbe manifeſt not to be of God, in that Chriſt Ieſus himſelf, the onely Lord and law-giver to the ſoule, neither had any ſuch power and authority, neither taught any ſuch thinge to his Diſciples, but the contrary. Firſt Mat. 28.18.19. All power is given me in Heaven & in earth. Go therefore & teach all Nations and 2. Cor. 10.4. The VVeapons of our war fare are not carnall, but mighty through God to caſt downe Holds. &c. Here wee ſee Chriſt hath no Worldly power, nor Worldly Weapons. 2ly. He practiſed and taught the contrary. VVhen the Samaritanes would not receive him goeing to Ieruſalem. Luk. 9. his diſciples would have had fire come downe from heaven & devoured them, Chriſt rebuked them & ſaid, ye knowe not of what ſpirit ye are, the Son off man is not come to deſtroy mens lives, but to ſave them. And the Appoſtle by the Spirit of Chriſt: 2. Tim. 2.24. Comaundeth the ſervants off the lord not to ſtrive, but to bee gentle towards all men apt to teach, ſuffering the evil men patiently, inſtructing them vvith meeknes that are contrary mynded, proveing if God at any time vvil give them repentance that they may knowe the truth, & come to amendment out of the Devils ſnare. &c. Theſe Scriptures need no explanation for this moſt evident truth.

VVell yet notvvithſtanding all this it is manifeſt in the Scriptures by the example of Thappoſtle Peter ſmiting Ananias and Saphira to death. Act. 5. & of Th-appoſtle Paul ſtriking Flymas the ſocerer blind. Act. 13 11. And alſo by delivering Hemineus & Alexander vnto Sathan for the deſtruction of the Fleſh: that puniſhment vpon the body may bee vſed, & the fleſh deſtroyed: For if it were lawful for them to ſmite to death, & the like, though by extraordinary meanes, then it muſt be lawful for vs by ordinary meanes, ſince extraordinary meanes now failed, If you ſay it be not Lawfull for vs, then you muſt ſay it was not Lawfull for them, & that vvere to accuſe them of laying a falſe foundation, vvhich none fearing God wil affirme.

I dare not once admit of ſuch a thought as to diſallowe the truth off that foundation which th- • opoſties as ſkilfull maiſter builders have ſaid: But for your argument of Peters extraordinary ſmiting of Ananias and Saphira, he neither laid hand vpon them nor threatned them by word, onely declared what ſhould be ſan them from God, and therefore ſerveth no thing to your purpoſe, alſo that of Paul to Elimas, he laid no hands vpon him, but onely declared the Lords hand vpon him, and the judgment that ſhould followe. If you can ſo pronounce, and it ſo come to paſſe vpon any, do it, and then it may bee you may bee accounted maiſter builders, and layers of a new foundation or another goſpell. And for Th-appoſtle Paul his delivering Hymeneus and Alexander vnto Sathan. 1. Tim. 1.20. It was not by any temporall ſword or power, but even by the power of our Lord Ieſus Chriſt, in his name, by the ſword of the Spirit. 1. Cor. 5.4. And this was not extraordinary, but ordinarye to continue in all churches to the end, and not to deſtroy the outward Man, as you teach and practice, but to deſtroy thoſe iuſtfull affections, which dwell in the fleſh, that ſo the fleſh being mortified, the Spirit may bee quickned and the Soule ſaved in the day of the Lord Ieſus. And whereas you ſay that as they did it by extra-ordinary meanes ſo you may do it by ordinary meanes, if you would vſe onely thoſe Weapons which Chriſt commaunded his Diſciples to vſe in this buſines, which are not carnall, wee would agree with you herein. But if your ordinary meanes bee ſuch as Chriſt never had nor any of his Diſciples, then it is a meanes of your owne deviſinge, for Chriſt hath al meanes whatſoever for bringing Men to the obedience of the truth.

Doth not Chriſt in the parrable Teach that he compelled all to come in?

I demaund of you wherewith doth he compel them? he hath no carnall weapons, doth he not compel them by his word, VVhich is his tvvo edged ſvvord. Heb. 4 12. Revel. 2.12. Doth he ſmite the earth vvith any other vveapons then by the breath off his lips. Eſa. 11.4.

VVell then you ſee compulſion may bee vſed.

Yes, I confeſſe to you ſuch compulſion as much as you will, if whē you have done you wil walke in his ſteps, who when the Gaderens praied him to departe he left them, and taught his Diſciples: where they ſhould preach the word of God, iff they would not receive them, that they ſhould ſhake off the duſt of their feet for a witnes againſt them. Mat. 10.14. Which accordingly they practized Act. 13.51. and 18 6. etc. He never taught them to pull the contrary mynded out of their houſes ād put them in priſons, to the vndoeing of them, their Wives and Children: This was Sauls courſe when he was a blaſphemer and perſecutor. etc. Act. 9.1. etc. Chriſt taught his Diſciples To wait iff at any time God would give the contrary mynded repentance, and not to prevent their repentance by ſeeking their blood.

Indifferent man. I have heard you all this while, and by that I have heard, I ſee evidētly that none ought to be compelled by any worldly meanes to worſhip God, neither can any bee accepted in ſuch worſhip, in that it is ſpirituall worſhip that he accepteth.

Bleſſed be the Lord, that you ſee it, I would not you onely, but all Men did ſee that the ſword of the Magiſtrate and al afflictions proceeding there from are onely vpon the outward man and cannot convert a ſoule from goeing aſtray, nor begett faith it comes by hearing the word of God Rom. 10.17. And therefore is no inſtrument in this worke. Al that the Magiſtrate can do, is to compell me to bring my bodie for except their be a willing mynd which no mā can ſee, their is no acceptance with God, and therefore it is not Gods glory, nor my acceptāce with him they ſeeke by forceing me, but meerly their owne obedience to Gods great diſhonor; and the diſtruction of my ſoule, if I ſhould ſo do. But iff it would ſuffice them to bring my bodie, to that they call their Church, and require of me no worſhip: I will go when they will, onely not when their falſe worſhip is performed. For I adhor the accurſed doctrine off the Familiſts herein.

It is a lamentable thinge to conſider how many thouſands in this nation there be, that for feare of trouble ſubmit to thinges in Religion which they diſeprove off.

Oh, whoſe eies doth not guſh out with teares, in the conſideration thereoff ſeeing in all that, God is highly diſpleaſed, ād al thoſe vnder the judgments of God everlaſting iff they repēt not.

If it were as you would have it, that all Religions should be ſuffered, how dā gerous vvould it bee to the Kings Perſon & State, what trecheries & treaſons would bee plotted?

Indead that is a thing greatly to be ſuſpected: but if permiſſion of all religions ſhould be clered of that there is no queſtiō, but it might prevaile with the King and State.

If it be not cleared of that then let al mē abhor it. Firſt: it is the comaundement of him, who is the God not of confuſion but off peace & order, and therefore to be obeyed. Mat. • 3.30. Let the good & bad grovv together vnto the end off the vvorld. Suffering the contrary minded patiently proveing iff god at any time vvill give them repentance that they may acknovvledg the truth. &c. 2. Tim. 2.24. Secondly: if the juſt lawes in that behalf made be but duely executed, which is, that all his ſubjects ſhould proteſt their faithful alligeance to his Maties. perſon. Crowne and dignity, all that will not be obedient, let them be diſpoſed of at his Maties. pleaſure, and you ſhall ſee no ſuch trecheries and treaſons practiced as hath bene. Firſt for all thoſe that ſeeke and practice in themſelves reformation in Religion, ſathan himſelf cannot tar them with the leaſt jott of trecherie: and for the Papiſts may it not juſtly be ſuſpected that one cheife cauſe of al their treaſons hath bene becauſe of al the compulſions that hath bene vſed againſt their conſciences in compelling them to the worſhip practiced in publique according to the Law of this Land: Which being taken away, there is no doubt but they would be much more peaceable, as wee ſee it verified in divers other Nations, where no ſuch cōpulſiō is vſed, for if they might have freedome in their religion, vnto their faith full alligeāce to the King, the feare of the kings Lawes, and their owne proſperity and peace, would make thē live more inoffencively in that reſpect.

Onely the Papiſts are dangerous in that ſome of them hold, that Kings ād Princes that hee excomunicated by the Pope, may be depoſed & murthered, by their ſubjects or any other.

For that damnable and accurſed doctrine as wee abhor it with our ſoules, ſo wee deſire al other may. And therefore all the Lawes that can be made for the prevention of ſuch exceecrable practizes are moſt neceſſarie. But now I diſire all men to ſee, that the Biſhops and wee, juſtly cry out againſt this accurſed doctrine and practice in the Pope and his aſſociates: That Princes ſhould bee murthered by their ſubjects for contrary myndednes in Religion, yet they teach the king to murther his ſubjects for the ſelfe ſame thinge, viz: for being cōtrary mynded to them in their Religion. So likewiſe, as that accurſed doctrine, is to bee abhorred in the Papiſts, who teach, ſubjects not to bee obedient to their princes that are excomunicate by the pope: even ſo is that accurſed doctrine of the Bbs. to bee abhorred, who Teach, Princes not to protect their ſubjects that are excomunicate by them, in not affoarding thē either lawe or juſtice nor to beare teſtimony in any Court. Do not the Bbs: herein juſtifie this accurſed doctrine and practice in the Papiſts?.

There is great difference in the perſons, for thone are Princes, thother ſubjects, & ſubjects muſt be obedient.

Moſt true it is, but is it not alſo true that Princes muſt afforde all their ſubjects juſtice ād equitie, although they be as heathens and Publicans? For iff Princes be freed from doeing right and juſtice and protectinge their ſubjects, that be excomunicate, why are not ſubjects alſo freed from ſubjection and allegeance to their Princes being excomunicate, if, excomunication be Chriſts Lawe to all alike that wilbe ſaved, without reſpect off perſons. And alſo, is not that lawe off Chriſt herein to be obſerved. That whatſoever ye would men ſhould do to you, even ſo do you to them. Mat. 7.12. And therefore as Princes would that all their ſubjects ſhould bee faithfull and obedient vnto thē: ſo ought Princes to be juſt and equall to all their ſubjects, in mainteyning them in every juſt and equall cauſe betwene man and man: For, for his cauſe (not for Religion) ſaith Thappoſtle, the ſaints at Rome paied their tribute to Ceſar their heathē Prince, who was againſt them in Religion. Shall they not eſcape damnatiō for this accurſed doctrine and practice, ād thinke you you ſhall? thou that judgeſt another, judgeſt them not thy ſelf? By this it may appeare as alſo by exceeding many other doctrines ād practices how neere you are to that bloody ſpirituall power, what pretences to the contrary ſoever you make.

I acknowledg it a bloodie Religion, but God hath caſt down the power thereof in this kingdome, bleſſed be his name but I would you could ſee your owne cruell bloodie religion, but that God of his mercy hath reſtrained it by the kings Matie. who thirſteth not after blood. how many, onely for ſeeking reformation in religion, hath bene put to death by your power in the daies of Q. Eliz: ād how many, both then ād ſince, have bene cōſumed to death in priſons? y • a ſince that cruel ſpiritual power hath bene ſer • p that not hanging, burning, exile, impriſonments and al manner of contempt bene vſed and al for religion, although ſome for grevious errors, ād yet you ſee not this to be a bloodie religion: further you cry out of their bloodie cruelty, the reaſon is becauſe you wil not bee of their religion, and when you have done, are moſt blodie cruell (ſo far as is in your power) becauſe wee and al men will not bee of your religion.

If men hold errors & vvill not obey the truth, do they not ſin againſt God, & deſerve puniſhment?

Yes, ſuch deſerve puniſhment, but God hath apointed their puniſhment, and the time thereof. Their puniſhment Rom. 2.8.9. To them that are contentious & diſobey the truth, & obey vnrighteouſnes ſhalbe indignation & wrath, tribulatiō & anguish shalbe vpon the ſoule of every one that doth evil. Mark. 16.16. He that will not beleeve shal be damned. 2. Theſ. 1.8. In flaming fire rendring vē geance vnto them that knowe no God, & obey not the goſpell of our Lord Ieſus Chriſt, which shall bee punished with everlaſting perdition from the preſence of the Lord, & the glorie of his power. The time thereof, the laſt place recited. verſ. 7. When the Lord Ieſus shal shewe himſelf from heaven with his mightie Angels: and Rom. 2.5. The day of wrath. and verſ. 16, At that day when God shall judg the ſecrets of men by Ieſus Chriſt▪ and Mat. • 3 40.41, At the end of this VVorld the ſonne of man shall ſend furth his Angels & they shall gather out of his Kingdome al thinges that offend, & them that doe iniquitie, & shall caſt them into a furnace of Fire. &c. Here is ſhewed the puniſher the puniſhment, and the time thereoff. This puniſher hath comaunded you to wait for their repentance (by his owne example) which is in his hands to give them, and not to cut them of and ſend them to hell, as you teach and practice, which is contrary to God, who is patient towards mockers which walke after ther luſts. 2. Pet. 3. Becauſe he would have no mā to periſh, but would that all men whatſoever should come to repentance. but you (contrary to him) vſe all the meanes you can to cut Men of, that they might periſh, in that you ſeke to deſtroy their bodies whilſt they remaine in their errors.

I confeſſe that God commaundeth Mat. 13 That the good & bad muſt grovv together vnto the end of the VVorld, but that is in the Church.

Wel: if that be the true expoſition, I pray you why do you then excomunicate any out off your Churche, contrary to your owne acknowledg. And here let all Men take notice that by this expoſition you overthrowe your owne excomunication quite, and accuſe Chriſt for giveing a rule. Mat. 18. and Th-appoſtle Paul, and the church of Corinth for practizing that rule. • . Cor 5. In caſ • ing out of the Church. For you ſay all muſt growe together to the end in the Church. But the expoſition of the Law-giver himſelff is againſt you, that the • eild is the world. verſ. 38. Yet in that you confeſſe that the wicked ād the Godly muſt be l • t alone in the Church vnto the end much more in the world vnto the end: For if the wicked pollute not the Church, ſure it is they pollute not the world. This then you are comaunded vnto verſ. 29.30. Nay, gather them not let them growe together vnto the end of the world.

Let them come to Church, & they shall grovve together vnto the end.

Indeed I thinke ſo, hereby you manifeſt you regard not how wicked and vngodlie men be, ſo they come to your Church, you wil not deſtroy thē, though they remaine in their abhominable luſts: but if they will not come to your Chur: let thē be wheate or tares, you wil gather thē, and (as much as in you is) ſend them to bur •• n • . Herein al mē may ſee, as I ſaid before, that you ſeeke your owne glorie and obedience, & not gods, ād ſo exalt your ſelves above God. 2. theſ. 2

Wel, I bleſſe God, I ſee this as clearly as the ſunne ſhyning in his brightnes, that it is to feight againſt God to compel any contrarie to their conſciences to performe any ſervice vnto him, in that there are ſo many places of Scripture comaunding the contrary.

The whole new Teſtament throughout in all the doctrines and practices of Chriſt ād his diſciples teach no ſuch thinge as cōpelling men by perſecutions ād afflictions to obey the go:pel but the direct cōtrary: viz: to ſuffer at the hāds of the wicked, whē they were perſecuted for righteouſnes ſake to ſuffer it, when the vnbeleevers ād wicked curſe them to bleſſe & pray for their repentance, & that God would forgive them, & never lay theſe ſinnes to their charge, as our Saviour Luk. 23 34. Stephen Act. 7.60. and the reſt did. And for a concluſiō of this point, that your faith may bee full herein, conſider that wee are to wait for the Iewes converſion, and not to deſtroy thē.

It is true, that might give all men ſatiſfaction in theſe thinges.

Oh yes, if Men had any regard of God or his word, they would never deale more in this thinge: the lord (wee ſee) Rō. 11. hath promiſed, that whē the fulnes of the gentiles is come in, the jewes ſhal be cōverted: now if the jewes who are ſuch fearefull blaſphemers of Chriſt ād his goſpel, that contemne him and his Teſtamēt with al diſpyte, if their converſion muſt be waited for, ād that they may not be deſtroyed from the face of the Earth, then who may not ſee (iff they ſhut not their eies) that the converſion off all is to bee waited for: and that no man for blaſpheming Chriſt ād his goſpel map be deſtroyed or afflicted by impriſonments, death, or any calamitie whatſoever.

It is not to be gain-ſaied with any ſhewe of truth. I would God the Kings Matie would conſider of this point, ſeeing that the cruel Bbs by vſeing his power, commit ſuch ſin againſt God in this thinge both in perſecuting thē that cannot of faith yeild, and alſo in foreeing them that do yeild contrary to their conſciences, to ſin againſt God, and to periſh, if they repēt not.

I am perſwaded, that if his highnes did but once wel wey ād conſider it he would never ſuffer ſuch high iniquitie to be co •• i • ted againſt God contrary to his expreſſe comaundement, ād all to bee done by • he Kings power, for nothing have they els to beare them out. The Lord perſwade the harts of his Matie and his poſterity vnto it, ſeeing his throne is eſtabliſhed by him, that he and his poſterity may ſit & raigne over theſe Nations and Kingdoms, till Ieſus Chriſt the comaunder of theſe thinges come in his glorie to recompence every Man according to his workes, without reſpect of perſons.

If vvicked malefactors should bee let allone to the end of the vvorld, then vvhere is the Magiſtrats ſvvorde? it is of no force if evil men may not be cut of.

I acknowledg vnfainedly that God hath given to Magiſtrats a ſword to cut of wicked mē, and to reward the weldoers. Rom. 13 chap. But this Miniſtery is a worldly Miniſtery, their ſword is a worldly ſword, their puniſhments can extend no further then the outward man, they can but kil the bodie Luk. 12.4. And therefore this Miniſtery and ſword is apointed onely to puniſh the breach of worldly ordināces which is al that God hath given to any mortal man to puniſh. The King may make lawes for the ſafetie ād good of his perſon, ſtate and ſubjects, againſt the which whoſoever is diſloyall or diſobedient he may diſpoſe, of at his pleaſure, the Lord hath given him this ſword and authoritie, forſeeing in his eternal wiſedome, that if this his ordinance of Magiſtracie were nor, there would be no liveing for men in the world, and eſpecially for the Godly, ād therefore the Godly have particular cauſe to glorifie God for this his bleſſed ordinance of Magiſtracie, and to regard it with all reverence.

But now the breach of Chriſts lawes, of the which wee all this while ſpeake, which is the thinge onely I ſtand vpon, his Kingdome is ſpirituall, his lawes ſpirituall, the tranſgreſſions ſpirituall, the puniſhment ſpirituall, everlaſting death of ſoule, his ſword ſpirituall, no carnall or worldly weapon is given to the ſupportation of his kingdome, nor to puniſh the tranſgreſſors of the lawes of this kingdome: The law-giver himſelf hath comaunded that the tranſgreſſors of theſe lawes should be ſet alone vntil the harveſt becauſe he knowes, they that are now tares, may hereafter come to repētance, and b • come wheat: they that are now blaſphemers, perſecutors, & oppreſſors as Paul was, may, by the power of Gods word become faithfull and a faithful witnes as he was: They that are now fornicators etc. as ſome of the Corin: once were 1 Cor. 6.9. may here after become washed clenſed & ſanctified as they were: they that are now to people nor vnder mercie as the Saints ſometimes were. 1. Pet. 2.10. may hereafter become the people of god & obtaine mercie as they did: all come not at the Firſt houre, ſome come not till the eleaventh houre, if thoſe that come not till the laſt houre ſhould be deſtroyed: becauſe they come not at the firſt houre, then ſhould they never come but be prevented.

Were not blaſphemers put to death in time of he lavv? 1 evit. 24.11 &c.

Yes, an Iſralite blaſphemmy the Lord, or doeing any thinge preſumptiouſly, which was blaſphemy. Num. 15.30. no ſacrifice to bee offered for him: but would you from hence have the kings Matie to put al his ſubjects to death that conteinne the truth of Chriſt? If yea, ſee what will followe. All Papiſts ought to be put to death, who are direct blaſphemers. Revel. 16 10.11 VVhen the viall of Gods wrath was powred vpon the throne of the Beaſt: (which all England confeſſe is ment the Popiſh power) they blaſphemed the God of Heaven. &c. All the Iewes that ſpeake many thinges blaſphemouſly againſt Chriſt, ought to be put to death: Yea of what profeſſion ſoever he bee doeing any thinge preſumpteouſly againſt Chriſt, ought to bee put to death by your affirmation, no ſacrifice to bee offered, no repentance to be admitted, dye he muſt vnder two or three witneſſes, but that this is moſt falſe, Chriſt and his Appoſtles in his Teſtamēt doth manifeſtli declare as is before ſhewed: was no Paul a blaſphemer, yet received to mercie? But this the Holie Ghoſt teacheth from blaſphemy vnder the law. Heb. 10. He that diſpyſeth Moſes Lawe, dieth without mercie vnder two or three witneſſes, of how much ſorer punishment ſuppoſe ye shall he bee worthy that treadeth vnder foote the Sonne of God, & counteth the blood off the Teſtament as an vnholy thinge wherewith he was ſanctified, & doth diſpite the Spirit of grace. Speaking of ſuch as had received & acknowledged the truth. verſ. 26. This is now the due proportion, an Iſraelite according to the fleſh in the time of the law preſumpteouſly ſinninge againſt Gods comaundemēt, by his comaund muſt dye, by the worldly ſworde, no ſacrifice to be offered for him: ſo in the new Teſtament or time of the goſpel a ſpiritual Iſralite according to the faith contempteouſly or diſpitefully ſinning againſt Chriſts commaund he hath former acknowledged diſpi • eing and contemning them, by his comaund muſt dye by the ſpirituall ſword, no repentance to be admitted, ſeeing he crucifyeth againe to himſelf the ſonne of God, & makes a mock of him. Heb. 6.6. David and Peter came not within this compaſſe, though they ſinned off knowledg, yet they did it not comtemteouſly or diſpitefully, but through frailtie. If an Iſralite vnder the Law did ought through ignorance as Num. 15. or through frailtie as Levit. 6. There was ſacrifice for him: ſo vnder the goſpel an Iſralit doeing ought through ignorāce or through frailtie as Peter and Barnabas with the reſt of the Iewes mencioned Gal. 2. or the me • ſteous perſon. 1. Cor. 5. There is repentance for him. This is it that cōfounds al true religiō. That be cauſe it was ſo in the time of the law, therefore it may be ſo in the time of the goſpell, by which reaſon, men might ſet vp as truely the whole law as ſome parte, and vtterly aboliſh Chriſt. I pray you ſeriouſly conſider what is here ſaid.

Firſt I anſwere you: that the kings off Iſrael had never power from God to ſet vp any thinge in or for the ſervice of God, bur that onely which was comaunded by God Dewt. 4.2. No not ſo much as the manner of any law. Num. 15 16. and 9.14. and therefore this will not ſerve your purpoſe, that Kings may ſet vp within their dominions ſuch ſpirituall lords and lawes for the ſerveing of God, no nor the manner there of as may beſt pleaſe thēſelves vnder what pretence ſoever, thereby makeing God for his worſhip ſubject to their pleaſures. And his Matie. acknowledgeth that Chriſts Church after the eſtablishing of it by miracles in the primitive time, was ever after to be governed within the limits of his revealed will. Speach at Parl Anno 1609 Secondly the Kings of Iſraell might compell men to the ſacrifices and ordinances of the old Teſtament, all which were carnall and purged not the conſcience Heb. 9.9.10. as circumciſion the paſſover etc: But no mortall Man whatſoever he be, can compel any mā to offer the ſacrifices of the new Teſtament, which are ſpiritual, and purge the conſcience except he can beget faith in him, and convert his ſoule. The ordinances of the old Teſtament were to be performed by the poſteritie of Abra. according to the fleſh that thereby they might be taught Chriſt: but the ordināces of he new Teſtamēt are to be performed, onely by the poſterity of Abrahā according to the faith, that have learned Chriſt, and have put on Chriſt, and ſo haveing him, all thinges els apperteyneth to them. But one thinge I demaunde of you, who now is King of Iſrael?

I confeſſe Chriſt is King of Iſrael.

Yes, Chriſt alone is King of Iſraell, that ſits vpō Davids throne, and therefore mark the true proportion. In the time of the old Teſtamēt the Kings of Iſraell had power from God to compel all to the ordinances of God, or to cut them of by their ſword from the earthly Land of Canaan, and the promiſſes thereof: So in the new Teſtament the King of Iſrael Chriſt Ieſus hath power from the Father to compell all, to the ordinances of God, or to cut them of by his ſword, from the Heavenly Land of Canaan and the promiſſes thereof: The Kings of Iſrael onely had this power vnder the law, and the King of Iſraell onely hath this power vnder the goſpell: And therefore whoſoever will challenge this power vnder the goſpel, he muſt be the king of Iſrael in the time of the goſpell, which is particulier onely to Ieſus Chriſt, vnto whome all power in Heaven and in Earth is given.

And let it be here well obſerved, that by this opinion of yours you make the Kingdome and ordinances of Iſrael vnder the Law, and the Kingdome and ordinances of Iſraell vnder the goſpell allone, directly contrary to the whole Scripture, for the Kingdome and ordinances of Iſraell vnder the lawe were of this world, but the Kingdome and ordinances of Iſraell vnder the goſpell are not of this world, as Chriſt the King thereof himſelf teſtifieth Iohn. 28. And therefore you ſetting vp a worldly King over this Heavenly Kingdome and ordinances, you and all of your profeſſion declare your ſelves to be of that worldly kingdome, and ſo to looke for that Heavenly and ſpirituall King yet to come in the fleſh, being of the number of thoſe that deny him to be come in the fleſh, anb ſo are deceivers and Antichriſts, whatſoever you ſay to the contrarie.

Well, yet I cannot ſee, but that as the Kings of Iſrael hath power from God to compell all their ſubjects, to the vvorship then appointed, ſo the King being a a Chriſtiā King, hath povver to compel his ſubjects, to the vvorſhip novv appointed.

You may ſee, if you ſhur not your eies, that what power the Kings of Iſrael had vnder the law in matters of Religion, Chriſt Ieſus the King of Iſraell hath vnder the goſpell: but I pray you let me aſke you this queſtion. You ſay the Kings Matie hath this power as he is a Chriſtian King: My queſtion is, whether it apperteyne vnto him, as he is a King, or as he is a Chriſtian?

Neither ſimple as he is a Kinge, nor as he is a Chriſtian, but jointly as he is compleate in them both: for I grant that no heathen Kinge hath power to compell in matters of Religion, but a Chriſtian King hath.

Then you confeſſe that of a Chriſtiā king may be deprived of his Chriſtianitie, (for of his Kingdome or kingly power, or any part thereof I affirme he may not be deprived) he hath loſt this power you plead for, in compelling Men in matters of religion: what ſay you to this?

I confeſſe if he may be deprived of his Chriſtianitie, he hath not this povver I pleade for.

Then, I demaund this queſtion, whether every Chriſtiā without reſpect of perſons ought not to bee ſubject to Chriſts Lawes for his ſalvation?

Yes, it cannot be denyed.

Chriſt hath given his cenſure Excomunication, for the ſalvation of every Chriſtian, that he that will not heare the Church, is to bee as a heathen and a Publicane, that is, hath loſt all right and title in Chriſt, and in his Church, till he repent, now I knowe it cāno. be denyed, but every Chriſtian whatſoever, is ſubject to ſin, and ſo to excomunication to be as a Heathen: etc: If you ſay, that Kings either are not ſubject to ſin, and to impenitency therein, and ſo to this cēſure of Chriſt, of excomunication, for their impenitent ſin, then conſider what you make them, and God you make a lyer. If you graut (as you cannot deny) that Kings aſwell as others, are ſubject to impenitent ſin, and ſo to excomunication for the ſame, then they being deprived of their Chriſtianity, by your owne confeſſion, they are deprived of power to compel in matters of Religion, the which if it were any part of their Kingly power, they might be deprived of a part of their Kingly power, by being excomunicate, conſider what a wicked doctrine you teach herein.

Doth not the Prophet ſay: that Kings shalbe nurſing Fathers & Queenes nurſing Mothers to the Church? And alſo it is ſaid that kings shal hate the vvhore, make her deſolate, eate hir flesh, & burne hir vvith fire. VVhere vvee ſee, that kings that have power & authoritie, shal deſtroy Antichriſts kingdome, & nurrish & cherish Chriſts kingdome.

Moſt true it is, the lord hath ſpoken it, and therefore it ought to be great comfort to Gods people but what is this to the purpoſe in hand, namely that Kings may perſecute the contrary mynded, the words of the Prophet Eſa. proves that Kings ād Queenes that have formerly perſecuted ād deſtroyed the church, their harts ſhal be turned by the power of Gods word, to be lovers and preſervers of the Church: ād the other place Revel. 17.16. proves that Kings ſhal make that whore deſolate, etc. not by their tēporal authority or ſword (as ſome ſay that make more ſhewe of religiō then you do, although thēſelves be now perſecuted, yet if kings were of their mynds, would be as cruell as you, for they maintaine the ſame thinge) but by the ſpirit of the lords moueth, & the brightnes of his cominge. 2. Theſ. 2.8. For this kingdome of Antichriſt ſhalbe deſtroyed without hand. Dan. 8.25. onely by the everlaſting goſpell, the true armor indeed wherewith the witneſſes feight againſt the Antichriſt. As the Kings Matie. acknowledgeth. Apol. Pag. 93.

In this and many other actions of Chriſt our Saviour, wee are to conſider him as the fulfiller and ender of the law, as in the actiō of the Paſſover, & ſending him that was clenſed of his Leproſie to offer to the Preiſt, the gift that Moſes comaunded, in which thinges wee are not to ymitate him, for by him the Ceremonies are fulfilled and aboliſhed, and the everlaſting goſpel eſtabliſhed, in the which wee are to walke: and it were more then fooliſh to reaſon thus. Chriſt whipped wicked Men out of Gods Temple made with hands, with whips made of cord, therefore wee may whipe wicked Men, out of Gods Temple made without hands, with whips made of cord. There is a whole ſome doctrine to bee collected from the Tipe to the Truth as thus. Chriſt drive out wicked Men out of the Temple made with hands, by a carnall or worldly whipp, ſo Chriſt (by his people) muſt drive wicked Men out of the Temple made without hands, by a Spirituall whipp. evē his word, which is called a whip or rode. Revel. 2.27. and Pſal. 2.9. ſo is excomunication. 1. Cor. 4.21.

Iff fredome off Religion should bee granted, there vvould bee ſuch deviſions as vvould bread ſedition, & inovatiō in the State.

Thus when your ſhewes out of the ſcriptures are anſwered, then you runne to conceits and ymaginations, of ſedition, innovation and the like, thinkeing thereby to diſwade Princes, and ali t • , at are in authority there from, knoweing els your kingdome of iniquity would fal But that it may appeare to all that you deale deceitfully herein, let vs conſider firſt the ſcriptures, ſecondly behold the ſucceſſe, of ſuffering of of Religion free in other Counries. And firſt. Chriſt our Saviour, (who is that Prince of peace. Eſa. 9.6. not of ſedition) hath taught. Mat. 10. and Luk. 12. That he came not to ſend peace on the Earth, but debate, to devide Fyve in one houſe, two againſt three, & three againſt two, the Father againſt the Sonne, &c. And a mans enimies shallbee they of his owne houſholde. And his deſire is, that the Fire of ſuch ſedition, should bee kindled, where wee ſee, this Prince of peace putteth difference in Religion, by preaching his Goſpell, which ſome receive, as the ſavour of life vnto them: others refuſe it, and ſo become enemies vnto the truth and witneſſes thereoff, as they did to Chriſt Ieſus himſelfe, and his Diſciples, and as you do to me and others. Secondly behold the Nations where freedome off Religion is permitted, and you may ſee there are not more floriſhinge and proſperous Nations vnder the heavens then they are.

The convocation of Biſhops and the reſt have made a Canō, that whoſoever ſhal affirme that the Kings Matie hath not the ſame power in cauſes Eccleciaſticall, vnder the Goſpell, that the godly Kings of Iſraell had vnder the law, let him be excomunicate, Ipſo facto.

Yes they have ſo. In the beginning off his Maties raigne when they had got him ſure vnto them, of the which they ſo much doubted, as with my owne eares I heard ſome of their cheife followers ſay, whē his highnes was comming into England. Now muſt ſteples downe, & wee shall have no more high commiſſion. (with lamentation they ſpake it) then they made this Canon, becauſe their conſciences are convinced, that they ſtand onely by his power, and if his hand bee turned, their Spirituall power of darknes falleth to the pit of darknes, from whence it came, and whether it muſt go, there being never ſo much meanes vſed for the ſupporting off it, for the ſtronge Lord hath ſpoken it. Revel. 18. As for their ſending Men to Hell (as they ſuppoſe) with their ipſo facto excomunications, iff they had no ſtronger weapon for the ſupporting of their Kingdome, it would ſtand but a ſhort ſpace. If Iſraell now were of this world, as it was vnder the lawe, then they ſaid ſomethinge: but iff it bee not of this World, as it is not. Ioh. 17.14. Then the King is not off this world, for when this King came the worldly Iſraell knewe him not.

I ſee evidently, that al are but cavels, and that no mortall Man can make any Man offer Sacrifices vnder the new Teſtament, vntill he bee a beleever, and converted, for he muſt bee in Chriſt, before he may offer ſacrifices, for in Chri: onely the Father accepteth vs: but what ſay you, have they not power to compell Men to come to the place where the word is publiquely taught that they may be converted?

Wel: then you ſee that the example of the kings of Iſrael (who had power to compel thē to ſacrifice, or to cut them of) applyed to earthly Princes, is gone as a meere doctrine of man, ād not of God. And for compelling mē to heare that they be converted, wee can learne of no better then of him, who if wee heare not wee ſhal have a dreadful recompence. He had al power in heaven and in earth for converting ſoules givē vnhim, and ſent his Diſciples, as his Father ſent him. Ioh. 20.21. Charging thē that whē they ſhould come into a City. etc. if they would not receive them nor their word, to shake of the duſt of their feet for a witnes againſt them, ſaying it should bee eaſier for Sodom & Gomorah in the day of judgmēt then for that Citie or houſe: And ſo th-Apoſtles went from City to City accordingly. Here was no Temples made, nor worldly power to compel al to come vnto them to heare the word off the Lord, but they comaunded to goe from City to City and from houſe to houſe.

In thoſe daies the Magiſtrats were vnbeleevers but the queſtion is where Magiſtrats be beleevers.

Chriſt had al power needful for that worke if Magiſtracie were a power needfull for that worke▪ thē Chriſt had not al power, magiſtracy is Gods bleſſed ordinance in it right place, but let not vs be wiſer thē God to device him a meanes for the publiſhinge of his goſpell, which he that had all power had not, nor hath comaunded. Magiſtracie is a power of this world: the kingdome, power, ſubjects, and meanes of publiſhing the goſpell, are not of this world.

A Goodly thinge indeed that Men muſt go about the Countrie to preach.

In your eſtimation it is baſe and contemptible, your pompe and pride will not beare this, it is more eaſe for you to hunt after promotion, till you come to the higheſt in getting to be cheife Biſhop of Biſhops within theſe dominions, and then cometh your fall, full lowe, iff you repent not, but the wiſedome of God hath appointed the cheifeſt Officers of Chriſts Kingdome, even the Appoſtles, thus baſely to go vp and downe, to and fro to preach his Goſpel, yea that worthy Apoſtle Paul preached this goſpel night & day with many teares openly & throughout every houſe. Act. 20.

But if this bee thus / as for my owne parte I am fullie perſwaded it is / then I ſee the high commiſſion cannot ſtand for as I take it / it is onely for cauſes Eccleſiaſticall.

So far as it is over Church matters, it is moſt vnlawfull, for the comiſſion for judging and puniſhing of the tranſgreſſors of the lawes of Chriſts Church is given to Chriſt the Monarch thereof, a parte whereof he hath left to his Diſciples, which is no worldly comiſſion or power, but onely the power of the Lord Ieſus, the vttermoſt of which comiſſion is excomunication. 1. Cor. 5.

If I do take any authority from the kings Matie, let me be judged worthy my deſert, but if I defend the authoritie of Chriſt Ieſus, over mens ſoules, which apperteyneth to no mortall Man whatſoever, then knowe you, that whoſoever would rob him of that honor, which is not of this world, he wil tread thē vnder foote: Earthly authoritie belongeth to earthly Kings but ſpirituall authoritie belongeth to that one ſpirituall King who is King of Kings.

Well all your pleading vvill not ſerve your turne, either you muſt come to Church, or els go to priſon.

I have ſhewed you by the law of Chriſt that your courſe is moſt wicked, to compell any by perſecution to performe any ſervice to God, (as you pretend.) Now I deſire alſo to ſhewe you, that the Statute law of the land requireth onely civill obedience, and his Maties writings mainteyning the Oath of alligience Teſtifieth the ſame.

The law of the lād requireth that whoſoever cometh not to Church or receiveth not the Sacraments, the Oath of allegeance is to bee tendered to them, which that it may be manifeſt to 〈…〉 that not onely I, but al that profeſſe the faith with me are moſt willing to ſubſcribe vnto it in faithfulnes and truth, I have thought good to • preſſe it.

This Oath was intended for the Papiſts & not for you.

It is not ſo. For his Matie at the laſt Seſſion of Parli: Anno 1609. ſaith thus. Some doubts have bene conceived anent the vſeing off the oath off allegeance, & that parte off the Act that ordeynes the takeing thereoff is thought ſo obſcure, that no man can tell vvho ought to bee preſſed therevvith. &c. And therefore iff there bee any cruple touching the miniſtering thereof, I would wish it now to be cleared. &c. And therevpon this ſtatute was made Anno 7. Regni Regis Iacobi. &c. Chap. 6. rowards the latter end.

And if any perſon or perſons whatſoever of & above thage of 18 yeres do now ſtand or at any time hereafter shal ſtand, & be pretented, indighted, & convicted, for not coming to church, or receiving the lords ſupper, according to the lawes & ſtatutes of this realme, before the ordinary, or any other haveing power to take ſuch preſentments, or indightmēts: or iff the Miniſter, pettie Conſtable, or Churchwardēs, or any two of them, shall at any time hereafter complaine to any Iuſtice of peace reare adioyning to the place where any perſon complained of shall dwell, & the ſaid juſtice shal find cauſe of ſuſpition, that then any one Iuſtice of peace within whoſe comiſſiō or power any ſuch perſon, or perſons, ſhall at any time hereafter be, or to whome complaint ſhallbee made, shall vpon notice there off require ſuch perſon or perſons to take the ſaid oath. And that if any perſon or perſons being of thage of 18. yeres or above, shal refuſe to take the ſaid oath, duely tendered vnto him, or hit according to the true intēt & meaning of this ſtatute that thē the perſons authorized by this lawe to give the ſaid oath, shall & may commit the ſaid offender to the comon jayle &c. where wee ſee that if any take the ſaid oath at their firſt apprehenſion, they are not to be comitted, or if they being comitted, take the ſaid oath at the next open Court, they are to bee ſet at libertie, if they will not take the ſaid oath, to bee in premunire, as is at large in the ſtatute declared, & as is daylie practiced with Papiſts, & others.

I pray let me demaund this queſtiō, doth the K: require my coming to C: to worſhip and ſerve God, or to worſhip and ſerve the K: if to worſhip and ſerve the K: I am ready to obey: if to worſhip and ſerve God, which none can do, but of conſcience, the King himſelf ſaith he never intended to ſay any thinge to the charge if any for cauſe of conſcience, ād this coming to Church being a cauſe of conſcience, if not he, why do you lay any thinge to my charge, for the ſame. And therefore you wronge his Matie in thus affirming: For his highnes requireth onely my faithful allegeance to bee teſtified by the a fore ſaid oath, and therefore hath ordeyned it, as I ſhal ſhewe by his highnes own teſtimony. If I ſhould come to Church, and not of conſciēce, but for other reſpects, as many Papiſts and other Hipocrits do, to God it were moſt abhominable and what faithfulnes can be hoped for in ſuch, towards his Majeſties perſon and ſtate, can any Godly wiſeman thinke that he that playeth the diſſembling hipocrite with God, that he will do leſſe with men, and wil not worke any villany if it were i •••• power, ād therefore herein, you compelling 〈◊〉 by tyrannie to bring my bodie, wherevnto my ſpirit cannot be brought, you cō pel me to hipocriſie with God and man, for if my hart were not faithfull in ſincerity to his Majeſties Crowne and dignitie, as I take God to witnes (before whome I muſt be condemned or juſtified) it is, theſe courſes would rather harde my hart to worke villany then otherwiſe.

Now for his Majeſties many Teſtimonys in his wrytings, they are worthy to bee recorded with thākefulnes to the higheſt for guiding his hart and pen to write ſuch thinges.

In his Apology for the oath of alegeāce pag. 4. he ſaith. Speaking of ſuch Papiſts as tooke the oath of allegeance. And I gave a good proofe that I intēded no perſecution againſt them for conſcience cauſe, but onelie deſired to bee ſecured off them for evil obedience which for conſcience cauſe they were bound to performe. & pag 60. Speaking of Blackwel the Arch-Preiſt he ſaith. I never intēded to lay any thinge to the ſaid Arch Preiſts charge as I have never done to any, for cauſe of cōſciēce. & pag. 127. he ſaith. Firſt for the cauſe of their punishmēt, I do conſtātly maintaine, that which I ſaid in my Apologie: that no man, either in my time, or in the late Queens. ever died here for his conſcience: For let him be never ſo devout a Papiſt: nay though he profeſſe the ſame never ſo conſtantly, his life is in no dā ger by the lawe. if he breake not out into ſome outward act expreſlie againſt the words of the law: or plot not ſome dangerous or vnlawfull practice or attempt. &c. Where wee may 〈◊〉 ſhort what is the whole ſome that he req 〈…〉 .

And in his Majeſties ſpeach at the laſt Seſſion off Parliament Anno Domini 1609. where he ſaith he ſheweth his ſubjects his hart. he ſaith thus.

A moſt vndoubted truth, which iff it bee (as moſt manifeſt it is by the Teſtimony of the Holy Ghoſt, throughout Chriſts Teſtament as before is proved) then how curſed are al the ranke off you, that continewally breake this ſure rule off God, thus confidently acknowledged by his Majeſtie, planting your Church by violence and bloodſhed forceing many thouſāds againſt their conſciences to bee off our Church, and to receive your Sacraments, by all the perſecutions that would followe: if they did not yeild, and thoſe that feare God more then Men, and dare not yeild, caſting them into noyſome Priſons: amongſt moſt wicked Blaſphemers off God, to the wounding off their ſoules: Deviding them from their Wives. Children and Families, and from their callings ſome an hundreth myles and more, vtterly conſuming that ſubſtance they have, which ſuſtaineth the blood of them their wives and Children: ſeldome or never affording them releaſe, but either by yeilding to you againſt their Conſciences, or els by con • uming their bodies to death, in priſō baniſhment, or the like, leaveing them and their wives to horrible temptations of adultery, in parting them, & their wives, ād to al manner of evill in takeing them from their callings, ād ſo leaveing them in continuall Idlenes. Is Gods Church thus planted? or do Chriſts Diſciples thus plant?

Oh I • this ſpirituall power is little inferior in cruelty to the Romiſh ſpirituall power / I pray how or whi was this ſet vp.?

Henry the 8. caſting of Pope Clement the 7. and ſo the Popes power Anno 1534. ſet vp this Spirituall power vnder him: ſee Act. and Mo: pag: 1201. etc.

I pray you ſhewe the likenes betwene theſe two ſpirituall powers.

I wil doe my beſt endeavor which is but ſmale.

Firſt, the Romiſh ſpirituall power doth make lawes to the conſcience, and compel al therevnto by excomunication, impriſonment, baniſhment, death and the like.

This ſpiritual power doth the like, vpon the like pennalties as al knowe.

The Romiſh power doth give Titles to his Miniſters, which are the Titles off God and Chriſt, as ſpiritual lords, great Biſhope ād many more.

This Spirituall power doth the like as all knowe.

The Romiſh power doth ſet vp Lords over their brethren in ſpiritual thinges, vnto whome they comaund honor, and great liveings to bee given great Pompe and Pride.

This power doth the like, as all knowe.

I ſhall not need to ſpeake of this, in that all bookes are full and all conſciences (excepe thoſe that are ſcrared with hot irons) convinced here off. Let but Maiſter Fox, or any others who have deſcribed the ſpirituall power of Rome, let but their diſcription thereof bee compared with this ſpirituall power in all their lawes, Courts Titles, Pompe, Pride, and crueltie, and you ſhal ſee them very little differ, except in their cruelties, which (glory bee to God) the kings Matie. who thirſteth not after blood hath ſome thinge rear a ne • , although it is moſt grevious crueltie to lye divers yeres in moſt noyſome and filthy priſons, and continewall temtatione of want, their eſtates overthrowne and never coming out many of them till death, let it bee well weighed, ād it is little inferior to the cruel ſuddaine death in times of the Romiſh power in this Nation.

It is very apparant it is that ymage or ſimilitude off that Beaſt ſpoken of Revel 13.

Oh yes, for their is no ſuch image of the Popiſh power vnder the Heavens as this: wel our comfort is, the ſtronge Lord hath ſaid. The Kings of the Earth (by whoſe power both the beaſt and his image is ſupported) ſhal take their power from hir, then ſhall ſhe ſtand naked and deſolate, and to this purpoſe his Majeſtie hath a worthie exhortation to all Princes, etc. in his Apologie. Pag. 103. The words are theſe.

For as she did flie, but with your fethers, borrowing as well hir titles of greatnes, and formes of honoring hir, from you, as alſo enjoying all hir Temporall liveings by your liberalities, ſo iff every man do but take his ovvne againe, ſhe vvill ſtand vp naked, &c.

Oh that the VVords off GGD might bee accepted off his Majeſty, ſet downe by the Holy Ghoſt Rom. 2.

Thou that teacheſt another, teacheſt thou not they ſelff? For iff he would take but his owne, their titles of greatnes ād formes, off honoring them, and their temporal liveings, this ſpiritual power would ſtand very naked and deſolate.

Well the harts off Kings are in the hands of the Lord and he can turne them as the Rivers off water / but I deſire your advice for my owne eſtate: I knowe every one muſt be are their owne burden / I have a long time remained ſubiect to this ſpiritual power / partely through ignorance / and partely through feare.

I wil firſt declare vnto you the judgmēts of God againſt ſuch as ſubmit therevnto, that ſo from an vtter abhorring thereof you may come out never to returne thither againe. Secondly: I will do the beſt I can to ſhewe you the way the Lord requireth you to walke in, and that onely out of his word.

The judgments are ſo feareful as I tremble to thinke off them, greater then which, is not manifeſted in the whole booke off God, Revel. 14 9.10.11. And the third Anngell followed them, ſayinge with a lowde voyce, iff any man Worship the Beaſt and his ymage, and receive his marke in his forehead, or on his hand, the ſame shal drinck of the Wyne of the wrath of God, yea of the pure Wyne that is powred into the Cup of his wrath, he shalbe tormented in fire and brimſtone, before the Holie Anngels, and before the Lambe. And the ſmoake of their torment shal aſcend evermore, and they ſhal have no reſt day nor night, which worſhip the Beaſt and his jmage, and whoſoever receiveth the print of his name.

I confeſſe theſe iudgments are to be trembled at / but how do you apply them properly to ſuch as worſhip in theſe aſſemblies?

For the ſatiſfaction of al conſciences herein that it may appeare playnly, not to be gainſaid, let vs cōſider the words of wiſedome, ſet downe in order as they lye. And firſt: what is ment by worſhip. 2ly: what by the Beaſt. 3ly. what his jmage is. 4ly. what his marke is: ād laſtly what is ment by forehead or hand.

And firſt for worſhip, it is plentifully manifeſted in the ſcriptures, that it is ſervice, ſubjectiō or obedience, to ſuch thinges as are comaunded by God, or others: as Mat. 4.10. Exo 20.5. dewt 13.4. and therefore his ſervāts wee are whome wee obey. Rom. 6.16. and as the lord ſaith: Iff I be your maiſter, where is my feare? if a Father where is myne honor or worſhip Mal. 1.6 2ly: by Beaſt, the ſcripture ſpeaketh ſometimes of cruel men in power and authority, as Dan. 7.17. Luk. 13.31.32.2. Tim. 4.17. Sometimes of a blaſphemous ſpiritual power exerciſed by men, received off the Dragon exalting it ſelfe above God, makeing war with the Saints, and overcoming them, and that hath power over every kindred, and tongue, and Nation, ſo that al that dwell vpon the Earth worſhip him. etc. And this is the Beaſt here ſpoken of, even that ſpirituall power or juriſdiction of Rome: which firſt wrought in a miſtery, and by degrees was exalted, till at the laſt it was exalted to this cruell Beaſt diſcribed. Revel. 13.1. etc. Which Beaſt openeth his moueth to bla • phemy againſt • od, ſaying and practizing, that the comaundements that God hath given for his ſervice, are not to bee regarded, but in ſteed thereof ſetteth, vp comaunds of his owne, vnto the which whoſoever will not bee ſubject, excommunication and all crueltie even to death will enſue, yea even with Gunpowder err it faile, and for this his crueltie he is called a Beaſt.

Thirdly: by Image is ment any forme, ſhape ſimilitude, or reſemblance of the thinge ſpoken of, as Deut. 4.15.16. etc. Exo. 20 4 ſo that where ſoever ſuch a ſpirituall power is, as this aboue diſcribed, there is the Beaſts Image, as in England, the like power or Beaſt to the firſt, is not to bee found vnder the Heavens, in exaltation and cruelty.

Fourthly: by marke, is ment profeſſion or practice, whereby wee are knowne from others as Mat. 7.20. 1. Iohn. 2 2 Iohn. 13.35. As badges or markes do put difference, betwixt this Mans and that Mans, in Cattel or ſervants, as by ſuch a mans marke wee knowe theſe are his ſheepe, and by ſuch a Mās badg. wee knowe this man belongeth to ſuch a great man: ſo they are ſaid to have put on Chriſt, that have received his baptiſme. Gal. 3.27. even as a ſervant is knowne by putting on his libery.

Laſtly, forehead or hand, the holy Ghoſt vſeth that phraiſe from the Old Teſtament, where Gods people were commaunded, not onely to lay vp his Commaunds in their harts and in their ſoules, but to bind them for a ſigne vpon their hands. that they might bee as frontiers betweene their eyes. Dewt. 11.18. and 6.6.8. The wyſedome of God therein teaching, that the forehead and hād are the apparanteſt parts of the body, to the view of all Men: ſo that to receive the marke in the forehead or hand, is to make manifeſt profeſſion of him wee obey. The ſome of all which is, that whoſoever openly profeſſeth obedience, and ſubjection, to that Spirituall cruell power off Rome, The Beaſt, or to that Spirituall cruell power off England, his Image, (whereſoever they or eyther of them are exalted) ſuch a one, and ſuch perſons shall drinke off the wine off Gods wrath, and bee tormented in fire and brimſtone, and shall have no reſt day nor night for evermore.

Your diſcription of the Beaſt / the Papiſts will deny / ſo will the Engliſh Lord Bbs: and their followers deny your diſcription of his ymage / but thouſands will grant both: and ſome will deny both / as the Familiſts / who ſay / that Religiō ſtandeth not in outward thinges / ād therefore they wil ſubmit to any outward ſervice / and they that do not ſo / but ſuffex perſecution (ſay they) are iuſtly perſecuted.

Thoſe enimies to the Croſſe of Chriſt are moſt of them not worth enformation, becauſe for the moſt part they are ſuch as do with an high hand ſin, after enlightninge, haveing forſaken the way wherein they walked, becauſe they would not beare Chriſts Croſſe, but in that ſome ſimple ſoules may be ſeduced by them let vs a little in generall compare their opinion with the ſcriptures.

True it is, that religion ſtandeth not onely in outward thinges, for God requireth the hart: and truth in the inward parts, but that God requireth not our ſubjection (vpon feareful puniſhments) to thoſe outward ordinances which he requireth, is a doctrine of devils as I ſhall prove.

And firſt, for the outward ordinances off the old Teſtamēt, which were meerly ſhadowes, & now are beggerly rudiments Gal. 4.16. what indignation the lord had towards them that tranſgreſſed. Nadab and Abihu, offering ſtraing fire, which the Lord hath not comaunded, a fire went out from the Lord, & devoured them, Levit. 10.1.2. The men off Bethsh • mosh lokeing into the outward arke which God had forbidden. Num 4.20. The Lord ſlevve fifty thouſand, & threeſcore and ten of them. 1. Sam. 6.19. Ozza, of a good intent leaninge his ſhoulder to the ſame outward arke which God forbad, the Lord ſlewe him. 1. Chro. 13.7.-10. Ozziah the King offering vp outward incenſe, which God comaunded onely the Preiſt Num. 18.3.7. The Lord ſmit him with leproſye vntil his death. 2. Chro. 26. Corah and his company: what feareful judgments came vpon thē (though he a Levite) for preſuming to meddle with the Preiſts office, the earth openinge and ſwallowing them vp. Num. 16. King Saule, likewiſe offering vp incenſe (in time off need as he thought) the Lord rent his Kingdome from him. 1. Sā. 13. as alſo for his diſobedience afterwards touchinge the fat of Amelecks cattle. 1. Sā. 15. How often was the wrath of the Lord powred downe vpon the Iſralites: becauſe off their tranſgreſſion of his outward ordinances, in place, perſon, and thinges, for it was a Low. Levit. 17.3.4. That who ſo brought not his ſacrifice to the place. viz: to the doore of the tabernacle of the congregation, but offered it vp other where, blood ſhould be imputed to that man, & he should be cut off from among his people: yea ſuch ſacrifices were eſtemed off God, as offered to devils, verſ. 7. & the lord cauſed them to pronounce. Dewt. 27.26. curſed be he that confirmeth not al the words of thir law. to do them. & all the people muſt ſay ſo be it: was God thus jealous of Moſes ordinances, ād is the leſſe jelous of Chriſts? muſt he die that diſpiſeth Moſes law, and ſhal he eſcape that diſpiſeth Chriſts? vpon what pretence ſoever. And Chriſt ſaith. It becometh him & all his to fulfill all righteouſnes in outward ordināces as washinge with water. Mat. 3.15. & whoſoever ſaith, he knoweth God, & keepeth not his comaundments (which are outward, as wel as inward) he is a lyar. 1. Ioh. 2.4. & whoſoever breakes the leaſt comaundment, and teacheth men ſo, he shalbe called the leaſt in the kingdome of heaven. Mat. 5.19. & whoſoever will not heare that Prophet (Chr: Ieſus) in al thinges that he ſhal ſay vnto thē, ſhalbe deſtroyed out off his people. Act. 3.22.23. the affectiōs of the ſoule are to be manifeſted by the actions of the body, according to Gods word, and al other good intēts or affections are abhominable. Wee may not neither can wee, Worſhip God with our Spirits, and the Devill with our Bodies: For VVee are bought VVith a price, and therefore muſt not bee the Servants off Men, but muſt glorifie God with our bodies, & with out ſpirits, for they are his. 1. Cor. 6.20. and. 7.23. And this mai ſuffice to ſatiſfy any cōcerning the over throwe off this accurſed conceit, knowing alſo that Chriſt and his Apoſtles, and all his Diſciples to the end of the world, might, and may live peaceably enough from perſecution, if this doctrine might be obſerved viz: ſubmiſſiō with our bodies to any outward ſervice. The Lord diſcover ſuch Hipocrites.

I bleſſe God I have learned of thApoſtle 2. Cor. 13.8. To ſay nothing againſt the truth / but for the truth / and therefore when I ſee thinges are evidently manifeſted by the ſcriptures diſirous to ſubmit ād not to cavil. But you knowe it is pleaded they have the word and Sacraments in the Engliſh aſſemblies.

I confeſſe they have the ſcriptures, in the which Gods miſceries are conteyned, which is locked vp from thē, ād revealed to his Saincts. Col. 1.26. which they woefully pervert to their owne deſtruction: They have alſo imitations of Gods ordinances, as water, bread and wine, ād other thinges, which they uſe after their owne invētions, which thinges maketh them boaſt ſo much of their Chriſtianity and of their Church, and which maketh them reaſon thus.

Wee are Gods people, for wee have the word and Sacraments.

The Philiſtimes might better have reaſoned: 1. Sā. 5. who had the true arke of God amongſt them, theſe have but a ſhewe.

Wee are Gods people, for wee have Gods Arke and holy Oracles amongſt vs. But I thinke they had no great cauſe to rejoyce there of in the ēd: No more ſhal theſe have in the end, when God recompenceth al that with hold the truth in vnrighteouſnes. Gods dealing is not now as it was of old, he now reſerveth puniſhmēt to the laſt day, he is patiēt, and would have men repent: but they deſpiſe his bountifulnes and long ſuffering, preaching peace when there is no peace.

It cannot be denyed / but that the miniſters preach many excellent truths / and do bring people to much reformation in many thinges.

True it cannot be denyed. For if the devil ſhould come in his owne likenes, men would reſiſt him, but becauſe he trāſformeth himſelfe into an Angel of light, therefore he deceiveth. So his miniſters, if they ſhould teach al lyes, mē would not be deceived by them, nor plead for them, but becauſe they teach many truths people receive them. but firſt: for whatſoever they teach, they neither could nor ſhould teach publiquely, their moueths ſhould be ſtopped, if they received not that their power to teach ſuch truths frō thoſe the Dragon ſends, ād therefore none cā receive thoſe truths from thē, but they receive the devil by whoſe power they teach for as our Saviour ſaith Mat. 10.40. He that receiveth you, receiveth me, and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that ſent me. So he that receiveth thoſe the Beaſt ſends, receiveth the Beaſt and he that receiveth the Beaſt, receiveth him that ſent him, that is the devil. Further did not that Southſayer Balaam, teach excellent truths? Num. 23.24. Chap. Yea the Southſayers of th Philiſtines the like. 1. Sam. 6. Yea thoſe in the Goſpell preach in Chriſts name. Mat. 7.22, as many we teſtimonies might be manifeſted, and ſecondly. For their bringing off people to reformation, and therein doeing great workes, did not the Southſayers before recited. 1. Sam. 6. ſhewe the Princes their ſin, in deteyninge Gods Arke and the judgments againſt them for the ſame, exhorting them to ſend it away, and not to harden their harts, as Pharaoh and the Egiptians hardned their harts? and was not reformation wrought hereby? ād did not they that preached in Chriſts name caſt out Devils, and do many and great workes? of whome our Saviour teſtifieth, he never acknowledged them. But let vs a litle conſider wherein the reformation conſiſteth, procured by their preachinge, in drunckennes, whoredome, ſwearing. etc. Moral dueties, which thinges whoſoever is not reformed in, ſhal never ſee Gods Kingdome, yet which thinges many of the Philoſophers (that knewe not God) abounded in, as they that knowe the ſtories cannot deny.

But do they teach their hearers to hate vaine inventions and love Gods Law? in a generall manner of teathing they may, but iff it come to particular practice, you ſhal ſee what they will do: do they teach any to ſubmit to that one law giver Chriſt Ieſus, for the guydance of his Church, and not to Antichriſts abhominations, no they will tell you, you muſt ſigh and groane, till the Magiſtrate will reforme: for you are a private perſon, and muſt bee ſubject: and iff the powerfull working off Gods word and Spirit prevaile in you, to let you ſee, that the Magiſtrats not reforminge, wil not excuſe you at the day off account, but that, that ſoule that comitteth abhomination ſhall dye, and that rather then you will Worſhip the Beaſt or his Image, you will ſuffer with Chriſt peaceably ſeperating your ſelfe from ſuch opē prophanatiō as neither can, nor willbe reformed, endevouring to ſquare your ſelfe both in your entrance, and walking in Chriſts way, vnto that golden read, which he hath left for direction: then the beſt off all theſe preachers and reformers, willbe hot and bitter, laboring with al the turning of devices to turne you, and with hold you from reformation: And iff they cannot prevaile hereby, then publiſh you in their previleged pulpits, where none may anſwere them: You are a ſchiſmatique, Browniſt. Annabaptiſt and what not, to make the multytude abhor your doeings, ād not to followe you therein, and ſome of them (iff not all) vnder a cullor, procure your impriſonment, and trouble, by their Canonized lords, or ſome off their Heiliſh Purſevants. And ſuch preachers of Reformation are the beſt off them all.

Oh how have we bene beſottes in theſe thinges for wāt of true knowledg and vnderſtanding from the Scriptures / how have I and others ſatiſfyed our ſelves with theſe thinges / in that our eſtate was happy / perſwading our ſelves thereoff / when alas our feare towards God was taught by the inventions of men but the reaſon thereof was wee iudged our ſelves by our owne perſwations / and not by Gods word.

I pray you let not that ſeme ſtraing vnto you, that people ſhould perſwade themſelves of their good eſtate with God, when it is not ſo. The Iſralites Gods People thought their eſtate good, many tymes, when alas at it was otherwiſe, as the Prophets declared vnto them yea our Saviour Teſtifieth, that they boaſted of God being their Father, when they not ſo much as knewe him. Ioh. 8.19. Yea when they were of their Father the Devil. verſ. 44. The fyve fooliſh Virgines though their condition good enough, and that they ſhould have bene let in, but it was otherwiſe. Luk. 20, The wicked thought they did God ſervice that killed Chriſts Diſciples. Ioh. 16.2. Mans hart is deceytful. Ier. 17.9. who are more confidēt of their good eſtate with God then the Papiſts, notwithſtanding al their groſſe abhominations? even ſo have you and I (God pardon vs) thought beyond al, that wee were in a good eſtate, haveing ſuch zealous teachers, that teach ſo many excellent truths vnder the Title of Chriſts miniſters, til wee came to examine them, as the Church of Epheſus did Revel, 2. then wee found them to hāve no other miniſtery then that they received frō the Beaſt and his Image, which the Dragon gave. Revel. 13.

Are all without exception in this feareful eſtate to bee caſt into the laike that burneth with fire and brimſtone?

Al that ſubmit, obey, or worſhip the Beaſt without exception, for their is no reſpect of perſons with God. So ſaith the Lord: If any Man worſhip. &c. Theſe (worſhippers vnder the Beaſts Image) may bee devided into two ſorts. Firſt, thoſe that ignorantly perſwade themſelves that al that is practiced is good ād acceptable to God. Secondly: thoſe that ſee and aknowledg many thinges to be evill which they would gladly have removed, but becauſe they cannot without the Croſſe of Chriſt, partly for that, and partly by the perſwation of their Prophets (that the thinges are not fundamenttall and the like pretences) all ſubmit, and teach Men ſo.

Some affirme / there be thouſands in England / that never worſhipped the Beaſt etc. but be careful to kepe the comaundements of God, and faith of Ieſus.

Such are not vnder theſe judgmēts, but if there meaning be of any that ſubmit to theſe ordinances appointed for theſe aſſēblies, ſuch teachers preach peace whē there is none, ſtrengthē the wicked, that they cannot returne from their wicked way, by promiſſing them life, whoſe reward ſhalbe according to the reward of ſuch falſe Prophets. Ezek. 13.1. and Chap. 14.10. becauſe they followe their owne ſpirit, and have not received it from the Lord. For thus ſaith the lord, Such shal drinck of the wine of the wrath of God.

It is alſo affirmed by ſome / that in reſpect of perſonall • races / ſome of the profeſſors (as they are called) are the Children of God / and may be communicated with privately / th • ugh in reſpect of their Church actions they are members of Antichriſts body to whome the iudgments of God apperteyneth.

This opinion proceedeth not from Gods word, but from mans vaine hart, by the ſuggeſtion of the devil, which that it my evidently appeare, let vs a little conſider of it. In truth it is to ſay, that in one reſpect they have Gods promiſſes aperteyning to them: in another reſpect they have Gods moſt fearfull tormēts (pronounced againſt that Beaſt, and that falſe Prophet. Revell 19.20.) apperteyning to them: In one reſpect they are Gods people, ſerveing him their Maiſter: In another reſpect the Devils people ſerveing him their Maiſter: In one reſpect, they ſhalbe ſaved, in another reſpect they ſhalbe damned: but what falſe doctrine this is, Gods holy word doth diſcover. Our Saviour ſaith: No man can ſerve two maiſters, ye cannot ſerve God and Riches. Mat. 6.25. And can any ſerve Chriſt and the Beaſt, God and the Dragon? when Chriſt ſhal come at the laſt day to give to every Man according to his workes, wil he ſay to any one, In reſpect of thy perſonal graces, I will ſave thee, come thou bleſſed, (as he wil ſay to all his Children) But in reſpect of thy being a Member of Antichriſts body, I will damne thee, go thou curſed as he wil to al that worſhip or obey the Beaſt? wil not Chriſt Ieſus pronounce abſolutely either ſalvation or condemnation to every one? And that according to this word Ioh. 12 48. ſo as God in his righteouſnes will either juſtify or condemne, every Man: ſo hath he taught vs to knowe, that no Fountaine can make ſalt water and ſweet Iam. 3.12. And therefore that by mens fruits wee ſhould knowe and judg thē to be not both good and evill trees at one time. as this opinion teacheth, but either good or evill: alwayes takeing heed, wee juſtify not the wicked, nor condemne the innocent, both which are abhominable to the lord: ād for any comuniō whatſoever with them, what fellowſhip hath Chriſt with Antychriſt, the righteous with the wicked: the ſervant of the lambe, with the Servants of the beaſt? but I leave this for further anſwere to thoſe who although they are nearer to this man, that hath publiſhed this opiniō, thē I am yet hath (according to truth) confeſſed in writinge. That there is nothing to be expected frō Chriſt, by any member of the Church of England, but a pow • ing out of his eternal wrath, vpon them. Mr. De-Cluſe. Advertiſ. Pag. 9.

Wel / I praiſe God / I am much enformed in theſe thinges yet one thinge more I wil deſire your anſwere vnto. The caſe ſtandeth thus with me. In theſe thinges I am betwixt faith and doubting / though the rather / I beleeve theſe thinges you ſay are true / and that I may never go to theſe aſſemblies againe without ſin / but I am not ſo perſwaded thereoff / that I dare ſuffer for it / what if I ſhould (not haveing faith to ſuffer) for feare of perſecution / go to their worſhip againe.

It were your moſt feareful ſin, which I prove thus, and I pray you obſerve it wel you muſt do it, either as being verely perſwaded you do well, and then al this beginning of light in you ſhould bee extinguiſhed, ād ſo your eſtate is with the worſt, if not worſe: or els you muſt do it, doubting whether you do wel or no: For I hope you wil not ſay you do it knowing you do evil. If you do it doubting, the Lord ſaith: It is ſin. Rom. 14.23. Which I hope you will acknowledg, and not approve your ſelfe to do wel in ſyning, and then God is mercifull to forgive your ſinne, either this or any other. 1. Iohn. 1.9.

But iff you ſay you ſinne not therein doeing it doubtingly, you make God a lyar who ſaith: It is ſin, & your ſin remaineth.

If you vnfainedly repent, being through weaknes, there is mercy with God, though it ſhould be ſeaventy times ſeven times in a day. Mat 18.21.22. But wee had need to take heed of our repentance. Th-apoſtle ſaith, where there is Godly ſorrowe for ſin, what care it worketh in you yea what indignation. &c. 2. Cor. 7. and cuſtome in ſin, is dangerous, wee had need to take heed, wee be not hardned, through the deceitfulnes of ſin. heb 3.13.

Then you how / that if any Man approve himſelfe in ſyninge / his ſin remaineth.

If any man ſin, and ſay he hath not ſinned. there is no truth in him. 1. Ioh. 1.8. and God vvill enter into judgment with him. Ier. 2.35.

Then abſolutely I ſee that if any man worſhip the beaſt or his ymage / etc. as before you have ſhewed / he neither hath faith nor feare of God in him what ſhewe of Godlines ſoever he maketh. But what ſay you, man not a Man that ſeperateth from all vncleanenes / though he yet / ſee not the way off Chriſt / in his Ordinances may not ſuch a Man bee ſaved.

Yes, vpon this conditiō, that he beleeve in Ieſus Chriſt for his onely righteouſnes, and be willing and ready, to heare and obey his ordinances, example hereof wee have in Cornelius. Act. 10. But if anie wil not heare that Prophet (Chr: Ieſus) in al thinges whatſoever he shal ſay vnto thē shalbe deſtroied out of his people. Act. 3.22.23.

What do you meane by wil not heare?

Next / after forſaking the wayes of wickednes / and imbraceing Chriſt for our righteouſnes what muſt wee do?

Chriſts whole Teſtament teacheth this, and no other way, after repentance, from dead workes, and faith towards God, to be baptized with water. Mat. 16.16. Act. 2.41. and 8.12.38. and 9.18. and a clowde of witneſſes, calling theſe the beginnings of Chriſt, and foundation. Heb. 6.1. etc.

May none be admitted to the Church / to pertake in the ordinances, except they be baptized?

If any teach otherwiſe, he preſumeth above that which is write. 1. Cor. 4.6. ād therefore ought to be held accurſed. Gal. 1.8.9. For there was never true Church, ſince Chriſts manifeſting in the fleſh, joyned together of vnbaptized perſons though ſome have vainely publiſhed, the contrary.

True / I thinke that cannot be denyed / where the perſōs were never baptized / but now the members of the Church off Rome from whence the baptiſme of the Church of England cometh / are baptized / therefore why need they againe be baptized.

If they bee baptized with Chriſts baptiſme, I wil acknowledg they need not againe be baptized, but that the baptiſme of the Chur: of Rome. is Chriſts baptiſme: that can never bee proved, for Chriſt requireth that onely his Diſciple ſhould baptiſe his diſciple, and into his body. none of which is in Romes baptiſme: For Chriſts adverſaries waſh with water, thoſe that are not Chriſts Diſciples, into the body, not of Chriſt, but of Antichriſt.

I confeſſe that the Church of Rome and mēbers there of are the Church and members of Antichriſt / but they vſe the water and words in their baptiſme that Chriſt appointed.

What thē: is it therefore Chr: baptiſme? the conjurers vſed the ſame words that thApoſtles did Act. 19.13. etc. wee adjure you by the name off Ieſus. &c. yet abhominable was their action: alſo Pſal. 50. Vnto the wicked ſaid God, what haiſt thou to do with my ordināces? or to take my word in thy moueth, &c. alſo the Papiſts vſe the ſame words of their Church, that Chriſt hath appointed to vſed of his, as alſo of their miniſtery, is it therefore Chri: Church and miniſtery? They vſe alſo the ſame waſhing water, and words in baptizing their bells, that they uſe in their baptizing their Infants, is it therefore Chriſts baptiſme? If āſwere be made, bells are not to be baptiſed I anſwere no more are the ſeed of wicked perſecuters, by our oppoſites owne confeſſion. Iff this were any thinge you ſhould ſee what will followe: the baptiſme of Rome is Chriſts baptiſme, becauſe they uſe water and theſe words: So if any vſe water and theſe words, as the Iewes or any other of Chriſts adverſaries as the Papiſts are, there is Chriſts baptiſme, conſider this and ſee what truth there is in it.

I anſwere that the firſt beginning off the Church of Engl: was made of the mēbers of the Chur: of Rome, as is apparant in the dayes off King H. the 8. and afterwards in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne, after Q. Marys death and ſo contynueth vnto this day, and the long contynuance of it, maketh it not aproveable: ād the Papiſts thēſelves did the Proteſtāts prove if they have or hold any other baptiſme Church or miniſtery, then that they have from them, ād ſhewe it, and they wil recant. Beſides the baptiſme now practized in the Chur: of England, is no better no otherwyſe then that of Rome: For the Chur: of Rome baptizeth al the Infants of the moſt wicked that are in hir dominions: and ſo the Chu: of England baptizeth al the Infāts of the moſt wicked that are in the kings Maties dominions, and of this timber are both theſe Churches buylt, and therefore wee may truely ſay: as is the Mother, ſo is the doughter. And as they are in their firſt buylding, ſo are they in the moſt of their lawes, Lords Law-makers, Courts, ād thouſāds of their abhominations in ſo much as it is playne enough, the latter is the very Image of the firſt, vnto which, whoſoever ſubmitteth or obeyeth, or maintenieth their baptiſme, or any other of their humaine traſh, he ſhal be tormēted in fire ād brimſtone for evermore, ād ſhal never have reſt day nor night. Revel. 14. & therefore in Gods feare caſt away that curſed actiō of waſhing, where was neither Chr: diſciple adminiſtring, nor his Diſciple vpon whome it was adminiſtred nor Chriſts body or Church baptized into: and obey Chriſts voice, in becomeing his Diſciple, ād to his Church, that you may be baptized by his Diſciple, and be made a member of his body or Church. This onely is Chriſts baptiſme, and of him acknowledged and ought to be off al his Diſciples, and the contrary to be held accurſed, and in no ſort mainteyned or kept.

It is obiected / that we muſt caſt away that which is mans ordinance / and reteine that which is Gods ordinance / namely / waſhinge and water and words.

I deny that any thinge in that action was Gods ordinance or appointment, what truth is there in this: to ſay, that becauſe God apointeth water, and waſhing, and words in his baptiſme, therefore howſoever water, and waſhinge: and theſe words are vſed, that is Chriſts ordinance. I confeſſe water ād waſhinge, ād words are Gods ordinance, being vſed as he hath comaunded, the which I acknowledg muſt bee held: but this vſe of thē, or action foreſpoken off being not the vſe of thē, or action appointed off God (as the adverſaries confeſſe) is to bee caſt away as execrable.

Further it is obiected they repent of that which is evil and reteyne that which is good.

For the better diſcovering of this deceit, let vs conſider what is the evil then cōfeſſe, ād that they repent of, ſay they, an vnlawful perſō, performed an vnlawful action vpō an vnlawful perſon, this is the evil. Now this is the queſtiō whether this actiō thus vnlawfully performed may be kept, and yet repented of. The ſcripture teacheth, that not onely confeſſing, but foreſakeing ſin, is repentance. Pro. 28.13. Cā a theife that hath ſtolne goods, repent thereof to acceptance with God, and not make reſtitutiō to the party wronged? being in his power, or haveing ability to reſtore, I would knowe how this wil be maintayned for the one is a greater theft thē thother.

It is further obiected / that Ieroboams followers had no right to circumciſion in their ydolatrous eſtate / yet ſuch as were circumciſed in that eſtate / were not afterwards circumciſed when they came to repentance.

It is there foregery ſo to object, for either they had right to circūciſiō, being true Iſralits although in tranſgreſſion, or els none had right to circumciſion in the world, no not Iudah: For what cā be ſaid, but that becauſe the ten Tribes were in rebelliō againſt God therefore they had no right to circumciſiō: may not the ſame be ſaid in as high a meſure of Iudah? was Iſraels ſin halfe ſo great as Iudahs? If it bee ſaid that Iſrael forſooke the place of Gods worſhip the tē ple, ſo did Iudah to, worſhipping vnder every Grene tree, and Grove, and high place: whatſoever cā be ſaid of the one, as much may be ſaid of thother. This is a meere deceitfull forgery raiſed vp by Sathan, in the harts of his falſe prophets, to deceive thēſelves, and thē that ſhal periſh, if they repēt not, in that they receive not the love of the truth, but beleeve theſe lyes, and have pleaſure therein, concluding frō this falſe ground, that becauſe the Iſralites in tranſgreſſion were circumciſed, and after comeing to repentance were not circumciſed againe: ſo Egiptians, Sodomites and Babilonians, never haveing bene Iſralites, baptized in the Synagogues of ſathan, are not to be rebaptiſed, as they cal it, there being no compariſon betwixt the perſons: thone being true Iſralites acording to the fleſh, Gods people, to whome by Gods appointement circumciſion aperteyned, ād who ſhould have increaſed their tranſgreſſions if they had not performed it: and thother true Babiloniās Gods adverſarys, vnto whome God threatneth his judgments, for takeing his ordinances in their mouethes or hands.

I ſee indeed there is no true proportion betwixt the perſons in circumciſion and baptiſme / for the one were the perſons appointed of God to be circumciſed, which circumciſion taught them the forſakeing of their wicked waies / and bound them to the obſervation of the law. Gal. 5.3. And they had no cauſe to repent of that their action: thither are not the perſons appointed of God to be baptized but ſinned in that their action and muſt repent thereof by your oppoſites owne confeſſion. But if this be granted / this queſtion ariſeth who ſhal then baptize after Antichriſts exaltation?

For anſwere to this: there are three waies profeſſed in the world, one by the Papiſts, and their ſeveral ſucceſſors, profeſſing ſucceſſion frō the Pope and his miniſters: another by the Familiſts and ſcattered flock▪ that none may inter meddle there with lawfully▪ til their extraordinary men come: another, wee ād others affirme that any diſciple of Chriſt in what part off the World ſoever commeing to the Lords way, he by the Word and Spirit off GOD preaching that way vnto others, and converting / he may and ought alſo to baptize thē: the two former I ſhal through the helpe of God confute / and confirme the latter by the ſcriptures.

Firſt to the Papiſts and all their ſeverall ſucceſſors (ſome ſtanding for all by ſucceſſion from Rome / ſome for more / ſome for leſſe / ſome for nothing but Baptiſme / being of our judgment for the appointing of their miniſtery. To them all I anſwere with the words of the lord / Pſ. 50.16. what hath Antichriſts miniſters to do to take Gods word in their mouths, or to declare his ordinances, ſeeing they hate to be reformed, and have caſt Gods word behind their backs. If they have nothing to doe with his word and ordinances / then not with miniſtery and baptiſme. Beſides God hath foribidden that the adverſaries of him / his Temple / and them that dwel in heaven ſhould build according to that of Nehemia. 2.20. The God of heaven he wil proſper us, and wee his ſervants wil riſe vp and build, but as for you, yee have no portion nor right nor memoriall in Ieruſalem. 2. to that fantaſticall ſect I anſwer. It is their dreame and falſe viſion / to looke for extraordinary men / for God hath not ſpoken it. For if an Angel frō heaven ſhould come & preach otherwiſe, then thoſe extraordinary men the Appoſtles have preached which none els could preach / & which is written in Chriſts teſtament / wee are to hold them accurſed Gal. 1.8.9. which truth none need go into heaven to ſeeke, but every one that ſearcheth the ſcriptures may find by the direction of the holie Ghoſt, which God hath promiſſed to all that obey him. Act. 5, and aſke it. Mat. 6.1.

As it was in the ſecond building of the materiall Tēple, after the captivitie of Babylon in Caldea, ſo according to the true porportion, it is to be in the ſecond building of the ſpirituall Tē ple after the captivitie of ſpirituall Babylon. Now this is obſerved in the former that every Iſraelite, with whome the lord was, and whoſe ſpirit, the Lord ſtirred vp, was commaunded to go and build Ezra. 1.3.5. though ſome were more excellēt in the buſines then others. So now every ſpirituall Iſraelite with whome the Lord is, & whoſe ſpirit the Lord ſtirreth vp are comaunded, to go and build, and the Lord wil proſper them in riſeing vp and building, though ſome be more excellent in the buſines then others, the begining of which ſpirituall building, is firſt to beget men a new by the immortall ſeed of Gods word, ſo makeing them liveing ſtones, & therevpon to couple them together a ſpirituall houſe vnto God 1. Pet. 2. vpon the confeſſion of their faith / by baptiſme / as the ſcriptures of the new teſtament every where teach, as before is ſhewed.

It is confeſſed of many / that any that hath giftes may preach and convert but not baptize.

Such our Saviour accounteth hipocrites, and reproveth Mat. 23. that held it was lawfull to ſweare by the Temple but not by the gold on the Temple, by the altar, but not by the offering on the altar: to whom he ſaith, whether is greater the gold or the Temple that ſanctifies the gold? the offering, or the altar that ſanctifieth the offering? So may I ſay, whether is greater the water and waſhinge, or the word that ſanctifies the water?

What other example have you in the ſcriptures, that on vnbaptized perſon may baptiſe?

If there were no other then that aforementioned, it were ſufficent. An Iſraelite circumciſed in fleſh God ſtirring vp his hart was to build, the Temple made with hands, from the firſt ſtone to the laſt, So an Iſralite circumciſed in hart, God ſtirring him vp, is to build the Tēple made without hands from the firſt ſtone to the laſt, begining with, Go preach, and Baptiſe, teaching to obſerve all that God cōmaunds, as Chriſt teacheth his diſciples to the end of the world. But further wee have the particuler example of Iohn Baptiſt, who being vnbaptized, preached, converted, and baptized.

But Iohn Baptiſt was an extraordinary man it wilbe obiected / for God ſpake to him extraordinarily.

what then / Is not his practice written for our inſtruction? God hath ſpoken at ſeverall times after ſundry manners Heb. 1.1. etc. Yet all to one end, as for this of Iohn Baptiſt, the ſame God that ſpake to Iohn Baptiſt in the wildernes his word, the ſame God ſpeaketh to vs in his ſcriptures the ſame word he ſpake to Iohn, and there fore ſeeing the Lord hath ſpoken who ſhall not preach and practice according to his word, ſeeing now God ſpeaketh to no particuler perſons, For what ſoever is written afore time is written for every mans inſtruction. Rom. 15.4.

Many famous men as Mr. Perkins and others cōfeſſe, that if a Turck ſhoud come, to the knowledg of the truth in Turkie, he might preach the ſame to others, and ••• erting them baptize them / though vnbaptized.

Many of thoſe caled Browniſts doe confeſſe that they are reaſonable perſwaded that Antichriſtians cōming to the truth may be baptized / and they would not differ with you concerning that / but that you deny infants baptiſme / what ſay you / may not the infants of the faithful be baptized?

No except God have appointed it.

You know it is granted that there is neither plaine comaund nor example for it in Chriſts Teſtament, but from the conſequence of circumciſion, in that covenant that God made with Abraham and his ſeed Gen. 17. and other places agreeing therewith.

Let vs endeavor to put an end to this if it may be in ſhort. I demaund of you / what covenant the Lord meaneth here. It muſt be granted he meaneth, either the covenant of the land of Canaan withall the promiſſes thereof: or the covenant of Chriſts cōming of his loynes concerning the fleſh, or els the covenant of life and ſalvation by Chriſt, one of theſe three it muſt needs be, let me have your anſwere / or any mans hereto.

The firſt and ſecond cannot be pleaded, therefore it muſt be the third, namely life and ſalvation by Chriſt.

Wel, then I demand, hath the fleſhly childr 〈…〉 of the faithfull, more previlege to life and ſalvation then the faithful themſelves?

No I think it cannot be ſayd.

Wel, then I affirme that the faithfull have right to this covenant of life and ſalvation onely upon their repentance and faith, and not otherwiſe, & ſo have their children & not otherwiſe, except you wil ſay they have greater previlege thē the faithful: or els that they ſhal have life & ſalvatiō by their parents faith: or els that they have right and title to it, whether they repent and beleeve or no. If any ſay they have right and title to it by Gods promiſe. I anſwer God hath promiſed life and ſalvation by Chriſt to none that are vnder condemnation but onely by repentance and faith: let any ſhew the cōtrary if they be able. If any ſay as ſome fooliſhly have done, being vrged / that it is the covenāt of the viſible church: what covenant is that but the covenant of life and ſalvation made to the faithfull, Chriſts body and Church. And therefore ſeeing they are ſo confounded herein, ſome teaching one thing, ſome another: ſome that infants have neyther faith nor repentance, but by vertue of the covenant made to their Parents: Others teach that repentance and faith is to be performed of every one that is to be baptiſed, & that infants may repent and beleeve by their ſuerties till they come to age themſelves: ſeeing I ſay they are thus confounded herein, having nothing in Chriſts perfect teſtament, onely ſome ſhew of a forged conſequence, and alſo that they agree not among themſelves. Let vs take heed of prophaning the Lords holy ordinance, adminiſtring it where he hath not cōmaunded. Many other things might be ſayd, but this may ſuffice, ſeeing much is already written, & more may be ere long: knowing they have nothing to ſay but their ſeverall conceits.

But what doe you then hold of infants?

That they are innocents as Chriſt teacheth. Mat. 18.3. &c. & 19.14. &c. 1. Cor. 14.20. that they have no knowledge. Deut. 1.39. Ionah 4.11. that God ſpeaketh not to them, requiring any thing at their hands, Deut. 11.2. Mat. 13, 9. Rom. 7.9. 1. Cor. 10.15. and therefore they have not ſinned, ſeeing ſin is the breach of Gods law. 1. Ioh. 3.4. Rom. 4.15.

Then you hold they ſhalbe ſaved.

Wherefore ſhould they be condemned?

For that originall ſinne, they have received from Adam.

Well. It is not my purpoſe now, time wil not ſerve to anſwere all the objections that are made in this matter. In ſhort I truſt to cutt downe that conceit, that any infant ſhould be condemned as thus. I demaund of you, did any of Adams poſteritie fall deeper in that trāſgreſſion then he himſelf?

No I never heard it affirmed, but as deep as he.

Well, out of your own ground you ſhalbe convinced. Did God ever purpoſe or declare, that Adam for that tranſgreſſion ſhould goe to hell? conſider it well before you anſwer.

No, for from eternitie he purpoſed that Chriſt ſhould be betwixt that ſyn, and condemnation.

You ſay true: then for that ſin, God never purpoſed to condemne Adam to hell: if not him for that, why any of his poſteritie for that? Let this be conſidered, it is your owne ground. Further I ſay, and that without contradictiō, it was never Gods purpoſe that any ſhould go to hell, but for refuſing Chriſt. This is condē dation that light (or Chriſt) is come into the world / and men love darknes better. Ioh. 3.19. and Chriſt will condemne the world of ſin, becauſe they beleeve not in him. Ioh. 16.9.

I cannot contradict you in this, I will better cō ſider of it, but I pray you what hold you then of Predeſtination?

If you conceive the former, you may ſee what I hold, namely that before all beginings, it was Gods purpoſe or predeſtination that, ſaltiō ſhould conſiſt in the receiving, or beleeving in Chriſt, and cōdemnatiō in refuſing of Chriſt. He that will not beleeve ſhalbe damned. Mar. 16. 16. and not otherwiſe.

Then you hold that God hath predeſtinated ſome to be ſaved, and ſome to be damned.

Yes, as I told you, namely the receivers of Chriſt to be ſaved: and the refuſers of Chriſt to be damned, but that God hath predeſtinate or appointed ſome to the meanes & end, namely to be wicked and to be damned, is the moſt blaſphemous conceit, that ever Sathan foyſts into mans hart, or braine.

But are men left then to their owne free will?

What doe you meane by free will?

Abilitie of our ſelves to do good or evill.

You ſay well, that truely is freewill. To do evill, and to reſiſt Gods word and ſpirit, wee have freewill or power of our ſelves, Act. 13.46. & 7.51. But to do good, or to receive Gods word or ſpirit, wee have no power of our ſelves. God worketh the will and the deed herevnto. Phil. 2.13. wee are both begotten againe of God by his aboundant mercie in Chriſt, to that heavē ly inheritāce & kept by his power (through faith) unto ſalvation. 1. Pet. 1.3 4.5. ſo that nothing apperteyneth to us but ſhame, to him onely apperteyneth the glory for our life from death & for our preſervation therein.

How comes it then that ſome do beleeve / and ſome do not?

That any do beleeve I have ſhewed you the cauſe, without the which none could beleeve, namely Gods mercy in Chriſt, in quickning vs that were dead by his powerfull & lively word ſpirit: that ſome do not beleeve, the cauſe is, they having freewill to do evill / & to reſiſt Gods & word and ſpirit / vſe the ſame / and ſo do not beleeve. That any beleeve it is thus Gods mercy / that moſt beleeve not / the cauſe is not Gods / but their owne wicked reſiſting will.

It is ſayd / that the reaſon why ſome beleeve not / is becauſe God doth not effectually call them / as he doth the other: for if he did / they ſhould come.

This ſaying / is partly blaſphemous / partly ignorant / blaſphemous / in that it lyeth the cauſe of their not beleeving on God / in that he effectually calleth them not / & maketh God a diſſembler in his word / who ſaith / as he liveth he would have it otherwiſe: ignorāt it is / in that ſuch perſōs as ſo ſay / know not Gods work in creating man: for if God had made Adā otherwiſe then he made him / eyther vnchangeablie good or evill / he muſt have made him eyther a God or a Devill: for if he could not have reſiſted God / by his creation / then what was he / but as God / vnchangeable: and if he could not have reſiſted the Devill by his creation / what was he but a Devill vnchangeable? or if he could not have reſiſted God in eating the forbidden fruit / how could God have manifeſted his mercie to him in Chriſt? or if he could not have reſiſted the Devill therein / how could God juſtlie poure out his iudgmēts upon him / for his obediēce to Sathan / God creating him therevnto. Now for vs Adams poſteritie / it is graunted of all / that wee have the ſame will or power to evill that Adam had or rather worſe / though not the wil to good he had / and therefore men may and doe reſiſt God in his effectuall calling of them / as Adā did in Gods effectuall forbidding him that tree. God is no reſpecter of perſons / he calleth all effectually and in good earneſt / and whoſoever holdeth otherwiſe he hath an evill conceit of God.

I praiſe God you have given me great ſatiſfaction in theſe things / what muſt we do after our baptiſme?

As the Saints our predeceſſors did. They that gladly received the word were baptized, and they continued in the Apoſtles doctrine, fellowſhip, breaking of bread and prayers. Act. 2. walking in fear towards God / and in love in word and deed / one towards another / according to the bleſſed rules in Chriſts Teſtament; and alſo juſtly and unblameably towards all men / that they may cauſe their converſatiō aſwell as their doctrine to ſhine before men / that men may ſet their good works, & glorify their father, which is in heaven, without the which converſation all profeſſion is nothing.

It is a great ſtumbling block to many / that divers / who profeſſe Religion walk corruptly in their converſation / it is great cauſe that the wicked open their mouthes againſt Gods truth.

Alas, it is moſt lamentable, but Gods people muſt knowe, it hath bene and will be ſo vnto the end of the world. And therefore hath Chriſt Ieſus appointed meanes for the redreſſing thereof in his Church. Mat. 18. & 1. Cor. 5. &c. And we may not juſtify or condemne any Religion whatſoever by mens perſonall walkings. May we ſay / the Religion of the Philo •• phers was good becauſe of their morall ver • es? or that the Religion that Iudah and Da •• d profeſſed was evill, becauſe of Iudahs in • eſt, and Davids adulterie / and murther. Gen. •• .2. Sam. 11. or the Religion of Chriſt evill / becauſe that one that profeſſed it, fell into inceſt • . Cor. 5. Gods people had need to take heed aſſuming / whereby to cauſe the adverſaries to • laſpheme, for the which God may make them • xamples to all ſucceeding ages.

I give you hartie thankes for your paines with me in theſe things / and I truſt I ſhall not let them ſlip but remember them all my life / and put them in practiſe.

The glory and thanks thereof onely be 〈…〉 ngeth to God, for to him it is due, but this I deſire you to conſider / that the knowing of the 〈…〉 ll of God / without practiſing of it / doth vs 〈…〉 ther hurt then good / the ſcripture ſaith. Not 〈…〉 he knowers but the doers are juſtifyed Rō. 2.13. • am. 1.12. And he that knowes his maiſters wil & doth not ſhalbe beaten with many ſtripes. May there be in this nation (with greefe of ſoule I ſpeak it) that acknowledge and confeſſe the truth / but practiſe it not / for ſome reſpects or other; the Lord perſwade all your harts to the ſpeedy practiſe thereof / and that by many examples that are left vnto you. David that mā of God ſaith, I made haiſt, & delayed not to keep thy cōmaundements. Pſal. 119.60. The Diſciples Mat. 4. ymmediately without tarrying followed Chriſt. The three thowſand the ſame day • hey were enformed obeyed the Lord and were baptized. Act. 2. The Samaritanes Act. • .11 aſſoone as they beleeved were baptized both m •• and women. The Eunuch likewiſe ver 38. 〈…〉 Iaylor / Lydia, Paul, and a clowd of witneſſ 〈…〉 comming not with fleſh and blood, but obey the Lord aſſoone as they beleeved. Here w 〈…〉 no ſtaying to heare what this, and that learn 〈…〉 man could ſay againſt it, as now a daies, but they were confidently perſwaded thereof, th 〈…〉 obeyed. And ſo I am aſſured it ſhalbe by lit 〈…〉 and little as the kingdome of the Beaſt diminiſheth.

I hope I ſhall teſtify to all / my ſpedie walking 〈◊〉 the ſteps of theſe holie men / but one thing there is yet which hath much troubled me and others / and in my judgem ••• hath much hindred the growth of godlines in this kingdom and that is that many ſo ſoone as they ſee or feare 〈◊〉 will enſue / they flie into another Nation who cannot 〈◊〉 their converſation / and thereby deprive many poore ig •• rant ſoules in their own Nation / of their information / 〈◊〉 of their converſation amongſt them.

Oh / that hath bene the overthrowe 〈◊〉 Religion in this land / the beſt able and great 〈…〉 part being gone / and leaving behind them ſome fewe / who by the others departure have ha 〈…〉 their afflictions and contempt increaſed which hath bene the cauſe of many falling back / and o • the adverſaries exalting / but they wil tell vs we are not to iudge things / by the effects / therefore we muſt prove that their flight vnlawfull or we ſay nothing.

And firſt / whereas it is ſaid by ſome of theſe fliers / that many of the people of God fled into forraine countries / and that God gave approbation thereof / as Moſes / David / our Saviour Chriſt in his infancie / & others / thinking here • y to juſtify this their flight. I anſwere / God • eſerved Moſes and the reſt in their flight / till • etime was come that he imployed them in his •• rvice / then in no caſe he would ſuffer them to 〈…〉 e / as when Moſes manifeſted his exceeding ackwardnes to the Lords work in helping his • eople out of bondage vſing many excuſes / the Lord was very angry with him Exod. 4.10.—15. • nd whither did our Saviour flie / when the • ime came that he was to ſhewe himſelfe to Iſraell? Luk. 1.80. If any of theſe men can prove the Lord requireth no work at their hands to be 〈…〉 e for his glorie and the ſalvation of thouſāds of ignorant ſoules in their owne Nation / let thē • tay in forraine countries. But I truſt Gods people have learned / not to ſay the time is not yet come that Babell ſhould be deſtroyed / and the Lords houſe builded / but that the time is come to build the Lords houſe / and not to dwell in ſeiled houſes / Hag 1. or any way to ſeek our outward promotion; which if it be granted / that the time is come / not onely to come out of Babel but to deſtroy her / all theſe objections are nothing / except they prove that when God called any of his people to his work / they left it for feare of trouble. This doctrine was not approved of God when the time came that his adverſaries were to be rooted out / and that his people had gotten ſome victory. The Rubenites, and the Gadites could have been content to have remayned to their moſt peace & cōmoditie. Nū. 32. But Moſes ſayd vnto them, Shall your brethren goe to warre and ye tarie here? wherefore now diſcourage ye the harts of the children of Iſrael &c. ſharplie reproving them as an increaſe of ſinful men riſen up in their fathers ſteads ſtill to augment the feirce wrath of the Lord / and Moſes would not be ſatiſfied vntill they had promimiſed that they would goe with their brethren to the Lords worke / and would not returne to their houſes / till they had accōpliſhed the ſame. And the Angel of the Lord doth ſay. Curſe ye Meroz, curſe the inhabitants thereof, becauſe they came not to help the lord, to help the Lord againſt the Mightie. Iudg. 5.23. Alſo becauſe the men of Iabeſh Gilead / came not up to the Lord / to help their brethren againſt the wicked men of Gibeah, all the men were deſtroyed and all the women that had lien by men Iudg 21. No excuſe whatſoever could ſerve: Did God thus reſpect his worke and people then / as all muſt put to their helping hand / and none muſt withdrawe their ſhoulder leaſt others were diſcouraged / & is there no regard to be had thereof now? but any occaſion / as feare of a little impriſonment / or the like may excuſe any / both from the Lords work / & the help of their brethren that for want of their ſociety and comfort / are exceedingly weakened / if no overcome. If anſwer be made / they performe their duty in both / that they doe the Lords worke the Paſtor feeding hys flock / and the people walking one towards another. I demaund / doth the Lord require no more worke of them? doth he not requyre that they ſhould help to caſt downe Babell? If reply be made they doe it by their bookes. I anſwere / that may be done / and their lights ſhine by their mouthes and converſations alſo among the wicked / which is the greateſt meanes of converting them and deſtroying Antichriſtes kingdome / They overcame (not by flieing away) by the blood of the Lambe, and by the word of their teſtimonie and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev. 13.11. Gods people are the lights of the world / a Citie ſet on a hil / a Candle ſet on the candleſtick / giving light to all that come in. Mat. 5. and therefore muſt ſhine by their perſons / more then by their • ookes. And great help and encouragement would be to Gods people in affliction of impriſonment and the like / to have their brethrēs preſence / to adminiſter to their ſoules or bodies / and for which cauſe / Chriſt will ſay / I was in priſon / and ye viſited me / in diſtreſſe and ye comforted me / and vnto thoſe that doe not ſo / according to their abilitie / Goe ye curſed. Mat. 25. If men had greater love to Gods cōmaunds / or the ſalvation of thouſand of ignorant ſoules in our Nation / that for want of inſtruction periſh / then to a little temporal affliction they would neither publiſh nor practiſe as they do in this thing. Thus have I in ſhort ſhewed you my poore abilitie in theſe things. And for all other things we hold / as the lawfulnes of magiſtracie Gods bleſſed ordināce. Of Chriſt our Saviour taking his fleſh of the virgine Mary / vy the wonderfull work of the holy Ghoſt &c. You may ſee them in our confeſſion in print publiſhed 4. yeres ago.

Many that he called Annabaptiſts hold the contrarie / and many other ſtrange things.

Well / you will yet be called Annabaptiſts becauſe you deny baptiſme to infants.

So were Chriſtiās before vs called Sects. And ſo they may Iohn Baptiſt. Ieſus Chriſt / himſelf / and his Apoſtles Annabaptiſts / for we profeſſe and practiſe no otherwiſe herein / 〈◊〉 they / namely / the baptiſing of ſuch as confeſſe with the mouth the beleefe of the hart. And if they be Anabaptiſts that deny baptiſme / where God hath appointed it / they / and not we are Annabaptiſts. But the Lord give them repentance / that their ſinnes may be put away / and never layd to their charge / even for his Chriſtes ſake / Amen.

Thus have wee in this Dialogue according to our poore ability anſwered ſuch objections / as hetherto in our poore and unworthy teſtimony have bene objected againſt any of vs concerning perſecution for religion: as alſo with good conſciences pointed at the principal things of Mr Robinſons late book till further time.