The truth is (O Hedoni) I ſeke too haue knowledge of a thing, but as yet I cannot fynde yt whych maketh for my purpoſe.

What booke haue you there in your boſome?

Ciceros dialoge of the endes of goodnes.

It had bene farre more better for you, too haue ſought for the begynnynges of godly thynges, then the endes.

Yea, but Marcus Tullius nameth ye the ende of godlines which is an exquiſite, a far paſſing, and a very abſolute goodnes in euerye puincte, wherein there is contained all kynde of vertu: vnto the knowledge ther of whoſoeuer can attaine, ſhuld deſire none other thīg, but hold himſelfe hauyng onely that, as one moſt fully content and ſatiſfied.

That is a worke of very great learning and eloquence. But doo you thynke, yt you haue preuailed in any thīg there, whereby you haue the rather come too the knowledge of the truth?

I have had ſuch fruite and cōmoditie by it, that now verelye hereafter I ſhall doubt more of the effect and endes of good thinges, then I did before.

It is for huſbād menne too ſtande in doubt how farre the limittes and merebā kes extend.

And I cannot but muſe ſtyll, yea, and wonder very muche, why ther hath been ſo great controuerſie in iudgementes vpon ſo weightie a matter (as this is) emongiſt ſo well learned menne: eſpecially ſuche as bee moſt famous and auncient writers.

This was euen the cauſe, where the verite of a thyng is playne and manifeſt, cōtrarily, ye errour through ignoraunce againe in the ſame, is ſoone great & by diuers meanes encreaſeth, for yt thei knewe not the foundation and firſt beginnyng of the whole matter, they doo iudge at all auentures and are very fondly diſceaued, but whoſe ſentence thynke you too bee trueſt?

Whan I heare MARCVS Tullius reproue the thyng, I then fātaſie none of all their iudgementes, and whan I heare hym agayne defende the cauſe: it maketh me more doubtfull thē euer I was and am in ſuche a ſtudie, that I can ſay nothyng. But as I ſuppoſe ye Stoickes haue erred the leſt, and nexte vnto thē I commend the Peripatetickes.

Yet I lyke none of their opinions ſo well as I doo the Epicures.

And emōgiſt all the ſectes: the Epicures iudgement is moſt reproued and condemned with the whole conſent and arbitreinēt of all menne.

Let vs laye a ſide all diſdayne and ſpite of names, and admitte the Epicure too bee ſuche one, as euery man maketh of hym. Let vs ponder and weighe the thyng as it is in very deed. He ſetteth the high and principall felicitie of man in pleaſure, and thiketh that lyfe moſt pure and godly, whiche may haue greate delectatiō and pleaſure, and lytle penſiuenes.

It is euen ſo.

What more vertuouſer thyng, I praye you, is poſſible too bee ſpokē then this ſaiyng.

I knowe thei doo ſo, but the • erre in ye vocables of theiſe thinges, and are very ignoraunt of the true and natiue ſignifications of the woordes, for if wee ſpeake of perfecte thynges, no kinde of menne bee more righter Epicures, then Chriſten men liuing reuerētly towardes God and mā, and in the right ſeruice and worſhiping of Chriſt.

But I thinke the Epicures bee more nerer and agree rather with the Cynickes, then with the Chriſtien ſorte: forſoth ye Chriſtiens make them ſelues leane with faſtynge, bewayle and lament their offences, and eyther they bee nowe poore, or elles theyr charitie and liberalitie on the nedye maketh theim poore, thei ſuffer paciently too bee oppreſſed of mēne that haue great power and take many wronges at their handes, and many men alſo laughe theim too ſkorne. Nowe, if pleaſure brynge felicitie wyth it, or helpe in anye wyſe vnto the furderaunce of vertue: we ſee playnly that this kynde of lyfe is fardeſt from al pleaſures.

But doo you not admitte Plautus too bee of authoritie?

Yea, yf he ſpeake vprightely.

Heare nowe them, and beare awaye wyth you the ſaiynge of an vnthriftie ſeruaunt, whyche is more wyttier then all the paradoxes of the Stoickes.

I tarie to heare what ye wil ſay

Ther is nothyng more miſerable then a mynd vnquiet & agreued with it ſelfe.

I like this ſaiyng well, but what doo you gather of it?

If nothing bee more miſerable thē an vnquiet mynde, it foloweth alſo, that there is nothing happiar, then a mynde voyde of all feare, grudge, and vnquietnes

Surely you gather the thing together with good reaſō but that notwithſtandyng, in what countrie ſhall you fynde any ſuch mynde, that knoweth not it ſelfe gyltie and culpable in ſome kynde of euell▪

I call that euyll, whiche diſſolueth the pure loue and amitie betwixt God and manne.

And I ſuppoſe there bee verye fewe, but that thei bee offēders in this thynge.

And in good ſoth I take it, that al thoſe yt bee purdged, are clere: whych wiped out their fautes with lee of teares, and ſaltpeter of ſorowfull repentaunce, or els with the fire of charitie, their offēces nowe bee not only ſmalle grefe and vnquietnes too them, but alſo chaunce oftē for ſome more godlier purpoſe, as cauſing thē too lyue afterward more accordyngly vnto Gods commaūdemētes.

In deede I knowe ſaltpeter and lee, but yet I neuer hearde before, that faultes haue been purdged with fire.

Surely, if you go to the minte you ſhall ſee gould fyned wyth fyre, notwithſtādyng that ther is alſo, a certaine kynde of linē that brenneth not if it bee caſt in ye fyre, but loketh more whiter then any water coulde haue made it, & therefore it is called Linum aſbeſtinum, a kynde of lynen, whyche canne neither bee quenched with water nor brent with fyre.

Nowe in good faith you bring a paradox more wōderful then all the maruailous and profound thynges of the Stoickes: lyue thei pleaſaſauntly whom Chryſt calleth bleſſed for that they mourne & lament?

Thei ſeme too the worlde too mourne, but verely they lyue in greate pleaſure, and as the commune ſaiynge is, thei lyue all together in pleaſure, in ſomuche that SARDANAPALVS, Philoxenus, or Apitius compared vnto them: or anye other ſpoken of, for the greate deſyre and ſtudy of pleaſures, did leade but a ſorowefull and a myſerable lyfe.

Theſe thinges that youdeclare bee ſo ſtraunge and newe, that I can ſcarcelye yeoue any credite vnto them.

Proue and aſſaye them ones, and you ſhall fynde all my ſaiynges ſo true as the Goſpell, and immediatly I ſhal bryng the thynge too ſuche a concluſion (as I ſuppoſe) that it ſhall appeare too differ very lytle from the truth

It ſhalbe doone if you wyll graunt me certayne thynges or I begynne.

If in caſe you demaunde ſuche as bee reſonable.

I wyl take myne aduauntage, if you confeſſe the thyng that maketh for mine intent.

go too.

I thynke ye wyll fyrſte graunt me, that ther is great diuerſitie betwxt the ſolle and the bodye

Euen as much as there is betwene heauen and yearth, or a thyng earthly and brute, & yt whiche dieth neuer, but alwayes cōtaineth in it the godly nature.

And alſo, that falſe deceiueable & coūterfeited holy thynges, are not too bee taken for thoſe, which in very dede be godly.

No more then the ſhaddowes are too bee eſtemed for the bodies, or the illuſions and wonders of wytchcraftes or the fantaſies of dreames, are too bee taken as true thynges.

Hitherto you anſwer aptly too my purpoſe, and I thynke you wyl graunt me this thyng alſo, that true and godly pleaſure can reſte and take place no where but only on ſuch a mynd that is ſobree and honeſt.

What elles? for no man reioyſeth too beholde the Sunne, if his eyes bee bleared or elles delecteth in wyne, if the agew haue infected hys taſt.

And the Epicure hymſelfe, or elles I am diſceiued, would not clippe & enbrace that pleaſure, whiche would bring with it farre greater payne and ſuche as would bee of long continuaunce.

I thynke he woulde not, if he had any wytte at all.

Nor you wyll not denye this, that God is the chiefe and eſpeciall goodnes, then whō there is nothyng fayrer, there is nothyng ameabler, ther is nothing more delicious and ſwetter.

No man wyll deny thys except he bee very harde hearted and of an vngentlernature then the Ciclopes.

Nowe you haue graunted vnto me, that none lyue in more pleaſure, then thei whyche lyue vertuouſlye, and agayne, none in more ſorowe and calamytie then thoſe that lyue vngratiouſly.

Then I haue graūted more thē I thought I had.

But what thing you haue ones cōfeſſed too bee true (as Plato ſayth) you ſhould not deny it afterward.

Go furth with your matter.

The litle whelpe yt is ſet ſtore and greate price by, is fed moſt daintely, lieth ſoft, plaieth and maketh paſtime continually, doo you thinke that it lyueth pleſaūtly?

It dooeth truely.

Woulde you wyſhe to haue ſuche a lyfe?

God forbyd that, excepte I woulde rather bee a dogge then a man,

Then you confeſſe that all the chief pleaſures ariſe and ſpring frō the mynd, as though it were from a welſpryng.

That is euident ynough.

Forſoth the ſtrength and efficacy of the minde is ſo great, that often it taketh away the felyng of al externe and outward pain & maketh that pleaſaunt, which by it ſelfe is very peynful.

We ſe that dayly in louers, hauyng great delight to ſytte vp long & too daunce attendaunce at their louers doores all the colde wynter nyghtes.

Now weigh this alſo, if the naturall loue of man, haue ſuche great vehemency in it, which is a cōmune thyng vnto vs, both with bulles and dogges, howe much more ſhould all heauenly loue excell in vs, which cōmeth of ye ſpirit of Chriſt, whoſe ſtrē gthe is of ſuche power, that it would make death a thīg moſt terrible, too bee but a pleaſure vnto vs.

What other men thīke inwardly I knownot, but certes thei wāt many pleaſures which cleaue faſt vnto true and perfect vertue.

What pleaſures?

Thei waxe not rich, thei optein no promotiō, thei bā ket not, thei daūce not, thei ſing not, thei ſmell not of ſwete oynt mētes, thei laugh not, thei play not.

We ſhould haue made no mention in thys place of ryches and prefermente, for they bryng wyth them no pleaſaunt lyfe, but rather a ſadde and a pēſiue. Let vs intreate of other thynges, ſuche as they chiefely ſeeke for, whoſe deſyre is to liue deliciouſly, ſee ye not daily drō kerdes, fooles, and mad menne grinne and leape?

I ſee it

Do you thynke that thei liue moſt pleaſaūtly?

God ſend myne enemies ſuch myrth & pleaſure.

Why ſo?

For ther lacketh emongiſt thē ſobrietie of mind.

Then you had leuer ſit faſtyng at your booke, then too make paſtime after any ſuche ſorte.

Of thē both: truly I had rather choſe to delue.

For this is plaine that be twixt the mad mā & the drūkerd ther is no diuerſitie, but yt ſlepe wil helpe the one his madnes, & with much a doo ye cure of Phyſicions helpeth the other, but the foole natural differeth nothing frō a brute beaſt except by ſhape and portrature of body, yet thei be leſſe miſerable whom nature hathe made verye brutes, then thoſe that walowe theim ſelues in foule and beaſtly luſtes.

I confeſſe that.

But now tell me, whether you thynke thē ſobre and wyſe, which for playn vanities and ſhadowes of pleſure, booth diſpice the true and godlye pleaſures of the mynde and choſe for them ſelues ſuche thynges as bee but vexacion & ſorowe.

I take it, thei bee not.

In deedethei bee not drūke with wyne, but with loue with anger, with auarice, with ambicion, and other foule and filthie deſires, whiche kynde of drunkenes is farre worſe, thē that is gotten with drinking of wine. Yet Sirus yt leude cōſpaniō of whom mention is made in ye commedie, ſpake witty thynges after he had ſlepte hym ſelf ſoobre, and called too memorie his greate and mooſt beaſtlye drunkenes: but the minde that is infected with vicious & noughty deſire, hath muche a doo too call it ſelfe whom agein?

How many yeares doeth loue, anger, ſpite, ſenſualitie, exceſſe, and ambition, trouble and prouoke the mynde? How many doo wee ſee, whiche euen from their youth, too their latter dais neuer awake nor repēt them of the drunkennes, of ambitiō, nigardnes, wanton luſt, & riatte?

I haue knowen ouermany of yt ſorte.

You haue graū ted that falſe and fayned good thinges, are not too bee eſtemed for the pure and godly.

And I affirme that ſtill.

Nor that there is no true and perfect pleaſure, except it bee taken of honeſt and godly thynges.

I confeſſe that.

Then (I pray you) bee not thoſe good that the commune ſorte ſeeke for, they care not howe?

I thinke they be not.

Surely if thei were good, they would not chaunce but onely too good men: and would make all thoſe vertuous that they happen vntoo. What maner of pleaſure make you that, doo you thinke it too bee godly, which is not of true & honeſt thynges, but of de ceatfull: and coometh out of ye ſhadowes of good thynges?

Nay in noo wyſe.

For pleaſure maketh vs to liue merely.

Yea, nothyng ſo muche.

Therfore no man truely liueth pleaſauntly, but he that lyueth godly: that is, whiche vſeth and delecteth onli in good thynges: for vertue of it ſelfe, maketh a man to habound in all thynges that bee good, perfete, & prayſe worthy: yea, it onely prouoketh God the fountaine of all goodnes, too loue and fauour man.

I almoſt conſent with you.

But now marke howe far they bee from all pleaſure, whiche ſeeme openly emongiſt all men too folowe nothyng, but an inordinate delectation in in thynges carnall. Firſt their mynde is vile, and corrupted with the ſauour and taſte of noughtie deſires, in ſo muche yt if any pleaſaunt thing chaunce them, forthwith it waxeth bitter, and is nought ſet by, in like maner as where ye welle hed is corrupted and ſtynketh, there ye water muſt nedes be vn ſauery. Agein ther is no honeſt pleaſure, but that whiche wee receaue with a ſobre and a quiet mynde. For wee ſee, nothyng reioyſeth the angry man more, thē too bec reuenged on his offenders, but that pleaſure is turned into pain after his rage bee paſt, and anger ſubdued.

I ſay not the contrary.

Finally, ſuche leude pleaſures bee taken of fallible thinges, therefore it foloweth that they be but deluſiōs and ſhadowes. What woulde you ſay furthermore, if you ſaw a mā ſo deceaued with ſorcerie & alſo other deteſtable witchecraftes, eat, drynke, leap, laugh, yea, and clappe handes for ioye, when ther wer no ſuch thyng there in very dede, as he beleueth he ſeeth.

I wolde ſay he were both mad and miſerable.

I my ſelf haue been often in place, where the lyke thyng hath been doone. There was a prieſt whiche knewe perfectly by longe experience and practiſe, the arte to make thynges ſeme that they were not, otherwiſe called, deceptio viſus,

He did not lerne that arte of the holy ſcripture?

Yea, rather of moſt popeholy charmes and witchecraftes: that is too ſaye, of thinges, curſed, dampnable, and wourthy too bee abhorred. Certayne ladies & gentlewomen of the courte, ſpake vnto hym oftentimes: ſaiyng, they woulde coom̄ one day too his houſe and ſee what good chere he kept: reprouyng, greatly vile and homly fare, and moderate expenſes in all thynges. He graunted they ſhulde bee welcome, and very inſtauntly deſired them. And they came faſtyng becauſe they would haue better appetites. Whā they wer ſet to dyner (as it was thought) ther wāted noo kynde of delitious meat: they filled thē ſelues haboūdantly: after ye feaſt was doone, they gaue mooſt hearty thanckes, for their galaunte cheare, and departed, euery one of them vnto their owne lodgynges: but anone their ſtomackes beganne too waxe an hungred, they maruayled what this ſhuld meane, ſo ſoone to be an hungred and a thirſte, after ſo ſumptuous a feaſt: at the laſt the matter was openly knowen and laught at.

Not without a cauſe, it had been muche better for thē too haue ſatiſfied their ſtomackes at their owne chābers with a meſſe of potage, thē too be fed ſo delitiouſli with vain illuſiōs.

And as I thīk ye cōmune ſort of men ar muche more too bee laught at, whiche in ſteede of Godlye thynges, choſe vaine and tranſitory ſhadowes, and reioyce excedyngly in ſuche foliſhe phanſies that turne not afterwarde in too a a laughter, but into euerlaſting lamentation and ſorow.

The more nerelier I note your ſaiynges, the better I like thē.

Go too, let vs graunt for a tyme theſe thynges too bee called pleaſaunt, that in very dede ar not. Would you ſaye that meeth were ſwete: whiche had more Aloes myngled with it, then honye?

I woulde not ſo ſay and if there were but the third part of an ounce of Aloes mixt with it.

Orels, would you wiſhe to bee ſcabbed becauſe you haue ſome pleaſure too ſcratch?

Noo, if I wer in my right mynd.

Their weigh with your ſelf how great peyne is intermyngled wyth theſe falſe and wrongly named pleaſures, yt vnſhamefaſt loue filthie deſire, much eatyng and drinking bring vs vnto: I doo omitte now that, which is principall grudge of cōſcience, enemitie betwixt God and mā, and expectation of euerlaſtyng puniſhēment. What kynd of pleaſure, I pray you is ther in theſe thinges, that dooeth not bryng with it a greate heape of outeward euilles?

What bee thei?

We ought to let paſſe and forbeare in this place auarice, ambition, wrath, pryde enuy; whiche of their ſelues bee heuy and ſorowful euylles and let vs conferre and compare all thoſe thynges together, yt haue the name of ſome chief and ſpecial pleaſure: wher as the agew the hedache, the ſwelling of the belly, dulnes of witte, infamy, hurt of memory, vomyting, decaye of ſtomacke, tremblyng of the body ſuccede of ouer muche drynking: thynke you, that the Epicure would haue eſtemed any ſuche lyke pleaſure as thys, cōuenient and wourthy deſire?

He woulde ſaye it wer vtterly too bee refuſed.

Wheras young men alſo with hauntynge of whores (as it is dayly ſeene) catche the newe leproſie, nowe otherwyſe named Iobs agew, and ſome cal it the ſcabbes of Naples, throughe which deſeaſe they feele often ye moſt extreme and cruell paines of deathe euen in this lyfe, and cary about abodye reſemblyng very much ſome dead coarſe or carryn, do you thynke that ther apply them ſelues vnto godlye pleaſure.

Noo, for after thei haue been often familiar with their pretyones, then they muſt goo ſtreighte too the barbours, that chaunceth continuallye vnto all whoremongers.

Now fayne that ther wer alyke meaſure of pain and pleſure, would ye then require too haue the toothache ſo longe as the pleaſure of quaffing & whor dome endured?

Verely I had rather wāt them booth, for ther is no commoditie nor vantage to bye pleaſure with payn but only to chaūg one thing for another, but the heit choiſe is nowe not too affectionate anye ſuch leudnes, for MAR. Tullius calleth that an inward greife & ſorow.

But now ye prouocation & entiſemēt of vnleful pleſure, beſides that it is much leſſe then the pain which it bringeth with it, it is alſo a thing of a very ſhort time: but if the leproſye bee ones caught, it tourmēteth mē al their life daies very pitifully & oftentimes cōſtraineth them to wyſhe for death before thei cā dye.

Such diſciples as thoſe then, the Epicure would not knowe.

For the moſt part pouertie, a very miſerable and painfull burden, foloweth lechery, of immoderate luſt cō meth the palſie, tremblyng of ye ſenewes, blcardnes of eyes, and blyndnes, the leproſie and not theſe only, is it not a ꝓper pece of worke (I pray you) to chaūg this ſhort pleaſure neyther honeſt nor yet godly, for ſo manye euylles far more greuouſe and of muche longer continuance.

Although there ſhoulde no pain com of it, I eſteme hym to bee a very fond occupier, which would chaūge precious ſtones for glaſſe.

You meane that would loſe the godly pleaſures of the mynde, for the coloured pleaſures of ye body.

That is my meanyng.

But nowe let vs come to a more perfecter ſupputation, neither the agewe nor yet pouerty foloweth alwaies carnal pleaſure, nor the new leproſy or els the palſy waitnot on at altimes the great & exceſſiue vſe of lecherye, but grudge of cōſiēce euermore is a folower & ſure companiō of al vnleaful pleaſure, then the which as it is plainly agreed betwixt vs, nothyng is more miſerable.

Yea, rather it grudgeth their cō ſcience ſometyme before hande, & in the ſelf pleaſure it pricketh their mynde, yet ther bee ſome yt you woulde ſay, want this motion and feelyng.

Thei bee nowe therfore in worſe eſtate & cōditiō. Who would not rather feele payne, then too haue hys body lacke any perfecte ſence, truly from ſome ether intemperatnes of euel deſires, euen like as it were a certayne kynde of drunkenes, or els wont and cō mune haunt of vice which ar ſo hardened in them, yt they take a way ye felyng & cōſideration of euyl in their youth, ſo that whā agee commeth vpō them beſide other infinitie hurtes and perturbations agaynſt whoſe commyng thei ſhould haue layd vp the deedes of their former lyfe, as a ſpecial iuwel and treaſure: then thei ſtande greatly in fear of death, a thyng emongiſt all other moſt ineuitable, & that no man canne ſhonne: yea, and the more they haue heretofore been dyſmayed and lacked their ſences, the greater now is their vn quietnes and grudge of conſcience, then truely the mynde is ſodenly awaked whether it wol or noo, and verely wher as olde agee is alwayes ſad and heuy of it ſelfe for as muche as it is in ſubiection and bondage vnto many incommodities of nature, but then it is farre more wretchede and alſo fylthye, if the mynde vnquiet with it ſelfe ſhal trouble it alſo: feaſtes, ryotous banketyng, ſyngyng, and daunſynge, with manye ſuche other wanton toyes & paſtimes which he was communely yeouē vnto & thought very pleſaūt when he was young, bee nowe paynfull vnto hym beyng olde and crooked, ne agee hath nothyng too comforte and fortifi

it ſelfe withall, but onely too remembre that it hath paſſed ouer the courſe of yeares in vertue and godly liuyng and conceaue a ſpecial truſt too obtaine herafter a better kynde of life.

Theſe be the two ſtaues wherevpon age is ſtayed, & if in their ſteed you wyll lay on hym theſe two burdens: that is, memorie how ſynfully he hath ledde his life, and deſperation of the felicitie that is too coome, I praye you what liuyng thyng can bee feyned too ſuffre ſorer puniſhement and greater miſerie?.

Verely I can ſee nothyng although ſome man woulde ſaye an olde horſe.

Then to cō clude it is too late to waxe wiſe And that ſaiyng appereth now too bee very true. Carefull mornynges doo oftentymes folowe mery euentides, and all vayne and outragious mixth euer turneth into ſorowfull ſighes: yea, & they ſhulde haue conſidered both that there is noo pleaſure aboue ye ioyfulnes of the heart, and that chearefull mynde maketh agee too floriſhe, an heauy ſpirit conſumeth the boones, & alſo that all the dayes of the poore are euell: that is, ſorowfull and wretched. And agayne a quiet mynde is lyke a contynuall feaſte.

Therfore they bee wyſe, that thryue in tyme, and gather too gether neceſſaries for that agee coom̄.

The holy ſcripture intreateth not ſoo wordely as too meaſure the felicitie and highe conſolation of manne, by the goodes of fortune, onely he is very poore, that is deſtitute and voyde of al grace & vertue, and ſtandeth in boundage and debette, bothe of bodye & ſolle vnto that tyranne oure mooſt foo & mortall enemie the deuill.

Surely he is one that is veri rigorous and impatient in demaundynge of his dutie.

Moreouer that man is ryche, whiche fyndeth mercye and foryeouenes at the handes of god. What ſhuld he feare, that hath ſuche a protectour? Whether men? where as playnely theyr hole power may leſſe do agaēſt God, then the bytyng of a gnat, hurteth the Elephant. Whether death? truly that is a right paſſage for good men vnto all ſufficient ioy and perfection accordyng too the iuſt reward of true religion and vertue. Whether hell? For as in that the holy prophete ſpeaketh boldely vnto God. Although I ſhulde walke in the middeſt of the ſhadow of death, I wil not feare any euils becauſe yu art with me. Wherfore ſhulde he ſtande in feare of deuils, whiche beareth in his heart hym, that maketh the deuils too tremble and quake.

For in diuers places the holye ſcripture praiſeth and declareth opēly the mynde of a vertuous man, too bee the right temple of God. And this to bee ſo true yt that it is not too bee ſpoken agaynſt, ne in any wiſe ſhuld bee denied.

Forſoth I can not ſee, by what reaſon theſe ſaiynges of yours can be confuted althoughe they ſeme too varye muche from the vulgar and cō mune opinion of men.

Why doo they ſoo?

After your reaſonyng euery honeſt poore man, ſhulde liue a more pleaſaunt life, then any other, how much ſoeuer he did haboūd in riches, honour, and dignitie: and breuely though he had all kynde of pleaſures.

Adde this too it (if it pleaſe you) too bee a kyng, yea, or an emperour if you take away a quiet mynd with it ſelfe, I dare boldely ſay, that the poore man ſklenderlye and homely appareled, made weake with faſtyng, watchyng, great toile and labour, and that hath ſcarcely a groat in all the worlde, ſo that his mynde bee godly, he lyueth more deliciouſly then that man whiche hathe fyue hūdreth times greater pleaſures & delicates, then euer had Sardanapalus.

Why is it thē, that we ſee communely thoſe that bee poore looke farre more heuely then riche men.

Becauſe ſome of them bee twiſe poore, eyther ſome deſeaſe, nedines, watchyng, labour, nakedneſſe, doo ſoo weaken the ſtate of their bodyes, that by reaſon therof, the chearefulnes of their myndes neuer ſheweth it ſelfe, neyther in theſe thinges, nor yet in their deathe. The mynde, forſooth thoughe it bee incloſed within this mortal bodye, yet for that it is of a ſtronger nature, it ſōwhat trāſfourmeth and faſcioneth the bodie after it ſelfe, eſpecially if the ve hement inſtigation of the ſpirit approche the violent inclination of nature: this is the cauſe we ſee oftentymes ſuche men as bee vertuous die more cherefully, then thoſe that make paſtyme contynually, & bee yeouē vnto al kynd of pleaſures.

In very dede, I haue meruayled oftten at that thyng.

Forſoothe it is not a thyng too bee marueyled at, though that there ſhulde bee vnſpeakeable ioy and comforte where God is is preſent, whiche is the heed of all mirth and gladnes, nowe this is no ſtraunge thyng, althoughe the mynde of a godly mad doo reioyce contynually in this mortall bodye: where as if the ſame mynde or ſpirit diſcended into the loweſt place of hell ſhuld loſe no parte of felicitie, for wherſoeuer is a pure mynd, there is god, wher God is: there is paradiſe, ther is heauen, ther is felicitie, wher felicitie is: ther is the true ioy and ſynſere gladnes.

But yet they ſhuld liue more pleaſauntly, if certein incommodities were taken from them, and had ſuche paſtymes as eyther they diſpiſe orels can not get nor attaine vnto.

(I praye you) doo you meane, ſuche incommodities as by the commune courſe of nature folow the cōdition or ſtate of mā: as hunger, thirſt, deſeaſe, werynes, age, death, lyghtnyng yearthquake, fluddes & battail?

I meane other, and theſe alſo.

Then we intreate ſtyll of mortal thynges and not of immortal, & yet in theſe euils the ſtate of vertuous men, may bee better borne withal, then of ſuche as ſeeke for the pleaſures of the body they care not howe.

Why ſo?

Eſpecyally becauſe their myndes bee accuſtomed and hardened with moſt ſure and moderate gouernaunce of reaſon againſt al out ragious affections of the mind and they take more patiently thoſe thynges that cannot bee ſhonned then the other ſort doo Furthermore, for as muche as thei perceiue, all ſuch thynges ar ſent of god, either for the puniſhment of their faultes, or els too excitate and ſturre them vp vnto vertue, then thei as meeke and obediente chyldren receiue them from the hād of their mercifull father, not only deſireouſly, but alſo chearefully and geue thankes alſo, namely for ſo merciful punyſhment and ineſtimable gaines.

But many doo occatiō griefes vnto thē ſelues.

But • o ſeeke remedye at the Phiſicions, either to preſerue their bodies in helth or elles if they bee ſycke, too recouer health, but willyngly too cauſe their owne ſorowes, that is, pouertie, ſickenes, perſecution, ſlaunder, excepte the loue of God compel vs therto, it is novertue but foliſhnes: but as ofoften as thei bee punyſhed for Chriſt and iuſtice ſake, who dar bee ſo bold as too cal them beggers & wretches? whā the Lord himſelf very famyliarly calleth them bleſſed, and commaūdeth vs to reioyſe for their ſtate and condition.

Neuertheleſſe, theſe thynges haue a certayne payne and griefe.

Thei haue, but on the oneſyde, what for fear of hel, and the other for hoope of euerlaſtynge ioye, the payne is ſone paſt and forgottē Now tell me if you knewe that you myghte neuer bee ſycke, or elles that you ſhoulde feele no payne of your body in your life tyme, if you woulde but ones ſuffer your vtter ſkinne too bee prycked with a pynnes puinct, would you not gladly and with all your very heart ſuffer then ſo lytle a payne as that is?

Verye gladlye, yea, rather if I knewe perfectlye that my teeth would neuer ake, I would willynglye ſuffer too bee prycked depe with a nedle, and too haue both mine eares bored through with a bodkin.

Surely what payne ſoeuer happeneth in this lyfe, it is leſſe and ſhorter, compared with the eternall paines, then is the ſoden pricke of a needle, incompariſō of the lyfe of man though it bee neuer ſo long, for there is no conuenience or proportion of the thyng that hath ende, and that whych is infinite.

You ſpeake very truly.

Now if a man coulde fully perſwade you, that you ſhould neuer feele payne in al your life, if you did but ones deuide the flame of ye fyre, with your hande, whyche thyng vndoughtely Pithagoras forbade, woulde you not gladlye doo it?

Yea, on that condicion I had liefer doo it an hundred times, if I knew preciſely the promiſer would kepe touch.

It is playne God cannot deceaue. But now that feelyng of paine in the fyre is longer vnto the whole lyfe of man▪ then is the lyfe of mā, in reſpect of the heauenlye ioye, althoughe it were thriſe ſo long as ye yeares of Neſtor, for that caſting of the hand in the fyre thoughe it bee neuer ſo ſhorte, yet it is ſome parte of hys lyfe, but the whole lyfe of man is noo portion of tyme in reſpect of the eternal lyfe,

I haue nothyng too ſaye againſt you.

Doo you then thyncke that anye affliction or tourment can diſquiet thoſe that prepare them ſelues wyth a chearful hearte and a ſtedfaſt hoope vnto the kyngedome of God, wher as the courſe of this lyfe is nowe ſo ſhorte?

I thinke not, if thei haue a ſure perſwaſion and a conſtant hope too attayne. it.

I coome now vnto thoſe pleaſures, whiche you obiected agaynſt me, they do wythdrawe them ſelues from daunſynge, bankettynge, from pleaſaunte ſeeghtes, they diſpyce all theſe thynges, as thus: for to haue the vſe of thinges farre more ioyfulle, and haue as great pleaſure as theſe bee, but after another ſorte: the eye hath not ſeene, the eare hath not heard, nor the heart of man cannot thyncke what conſolations GOD hathe ordeined for them that loue hym. Sayncte Paule knewe what maner of thynges ſhoulde bee the ſonges, queeres, daunſynges, and bankettes of vertuous myndes, yea, in this lyfe.

but there bee ſome leafull pleaſures, whyche they vtterlye refuſe.

That maye bee, for the immoderate vſe of leafull and godly games or paſtymes, is vnleaful: and if you wyll excepte this one thing onlye, in al other thei excelle whiche ſeeme too leade a paynfull lyfe, and whom we take too bee ouerwhelmed with all kynd of miſeries. Now I prai you what more roialler ſight can ther be, then ye cōtēplatiō of this world? and ſuch men as ye be in fauour of god keping his holy cōmaū demētes & loue his moſt bleſſed teſtamēt, receiue far greater pleaſure in the ſyght therof, then thother ſorte doo, for while thei behold wyth ouercurious eyes, yt wōderful worke, their mynde is troubled becauſe they can not compaſſe for what purpoſe he doeth ſuch thinges, then thei improue the mooſt righte and wiſe gouernour of all and murmour at his doinges as though they were goddes of reprehenſion: and often finde faute with that lady nature, and ſaye that ſhe is vnnaturall, whiche taunt forſooth with as muche ſpite as can bee ſhewed with woordes, greueth nature: but truely it redoundeth on hym, that made nature, if there bee any at all. But the vertuous man with godly & ſimple eyes beholdeth with an excedyng reioyce of heart the workes of his Lorde and father highly prayſyng thē all, and neither reprehēdeth nor findeth faut with any of thē, but for euery thyng yeoueth moſte hearty thankes, when he conſidereth that al were made for the loue of man. And ſo in all thynges, he praieth vnto the infinite power, deuine wiſedome, & goodnes of the maker, wherof he perceiueth moſte euident tokens in thynges that bee here created. Now fain that there were ſuche a palace in verie deede as Apuleus faineth, or els one that were more royall and gorgeouſe, and that you ſhoulde take twoo thither with you too beholde it, the one a ſtraunger, whiche gooeth for this intent onely too ſee the thyng, and the other the ſeruaūt or ſoonne of hym that firſte cauſeth this buyldyng, whether will haue more delectie in it? the ſtraunger, too whom ſuche maner of houſe dooeth nothyng appartain, or the ſoonne whiche beholdeth with greate ioye and pleaſure, the witte, riches, and magnificence of his deerely beloued father, eſpecially when he dooeth conſider all this worke was made for his ſake.

Your queſtion is too plain: for they moſt cōmunely that bee of euill condicions, knowe that heauen and all thinges contained therin, wer • made for mannes ſake.

Almoſte al knowe that, but ſome dooe not remembre it, ſhewyng thēſelues vnthākeful for the great and exhuberāt benefittes of god, & al though thei remember it, yet that mā taketh greater delight in the ſight of it whiche hath more loue vnto the maker therof, in like maner as, he more chearfully wyll behold the element whiche aſpireth towarde the eternall life.

Your ſaiynges are muche like too bee true.

Nowe the pleaſures of feaſtes dooeth not conſiſt in the delicates of the mouth, nor in the good ſauces of cookes, but in health of body and appetite of ſtomacke. You may not thynke that any delicious perſon ſuppeth more pleaſauntly hauyng before hym par triches, turtelles, leuerettes, bekers, ſturgeon, and lamprayes: then a vertuous man hauyng nothīg too eat, but onely bread potage, or wortes: and nothyng too drynke, but water, ſingle bere, or wyne well alayde, becauſe he taketh theſe thinges as prepared of God vnto all lyuyng creatures, and that they bee now yeouē vnto him of his gentyll and mercifull father, praier maketh euery thyng too ſauour well. The petition in ye begynnyng of dyner ſanctifieth all thynges and in a while after there is recited ſome holy leſſon of the woorde of God: whiche more refreſheth the minde, then meate the body, and grace after all this. Finally he riſeth from the table, not ful: but recreated, not laden, but refreſhed: yea, refreſhed both in ſpirit and bodie, thynke you that any chief deuiſer of theſe muche vſed bākets, & deintye delicaces fareth nowe more deliciouſly?

But in Venus there is greate delectacions if we beleue Areſtotell.

And in this behalfe the vertuous manne far excelleth as well as in good fare, wiegh you now the matter as it is, the better a manne loueth his wife, the more he delecteth in the good felow ſhip and familiaritie that is betwene theim after the courſe of nature. Furthermore, no menne louē their wiues more vehemē tly then thei that loue theim euē ſoo, as Chriſt loued the churche. For thei that loue thē for the deſire of bodely pleaſure, loue thē not. More ouer, the ſeldomer any man dooeth accompany with his wife, the greater pleaſure, it is to hym afterwarde, and that thyng the wātō poete knew full well whiche writeth, rare and ſeldome vſe ſtereth vp pleaſures. Albeit, the leſt parte of pleaſure is in the familiare company betwene theim. There is forſothe far greater in the continuall leadyng of their liues too gether, whiche emongeſt none can be ſo pleſaunt as thoſe that loue ſyncerely and faithfully together in godly and chriſtian loue, and loue a like one the other. In the other ſort, oftē whē the pleaſure of ye body decaieth & waxeth old loue waxeth coold & is ſone forgottō, but emōgeſt right chriſtē mē, the more yt the luſt of ye fleſh decreaſeth & vaniſhethaway, ye more thē al godly loue encreſeth Are you not yet perſwaded that none lyue more pleaſauntly thē they whiche liue continually in vertue and true religiō of god?

Would god all men were as well perſwaded in that thyng.

And if they bee Epicures yt lyue pleaſauntli: none bee righter Epicures then they that liue vertuouſly, and if we wyll that euery thyng haue it right name none deſerueth more ye cogname of an Epicure, then that Prince of all godly wiſedome too whō moſt reuerētly we ought alwaies too praye: for in the greeke tonge an Epicure ſignifieth an helper. Nowe whan the lawe of nature was firſt corrupted with linne, whē the law of Moſes did rather prouoke euil deſires thē then remedy them. Whā the tyraunte Sathanas reygned in this worlde freely and wythout puniſhement, then thys prynce onely, dyd ſodenlye helpe mankynde redy to periſhe: wherfore thei erre ſhamefully which ſcoff and bable that CHRIST was one that was ſadd and of a malancolye nature, & that he hath prouoked vs vnto an vnpleaſaunt kynde of lyfe, for onely he did ſhewe a kind of liuing moſt godly and fulleſt of al true pleaſure, if we might haue the ſtone of Tantalus taken awaye from vs.

What darke ſaiyng is this?

It is a mery tale too laugh at, but this bourd in duceth verye graue and ſadde thynges.

I tary too heare this mery conceite, that you name too bee ſo ſage a matter.

Thei whiche gaue their ſtudye and diligence to colour and ſetfurth the preceptes of Philoſophie wyth ſubtil fables, declare yt there was one Tantalus broughte vnto the table of the goddes, whych was euer furniſhed wyth all good fare, and moſt nete and ſumptuous that myght bee, whan thys ſtraunger ſhoulde take hys leaue, Iupyter thought it was for his great liberalitie and highe renoume, that his gueſt ſhuld not depart wythout ſome rewarde, he wylled him therfore too aſke what he woulde, and he ſhoulde haue it: Tantalusꝰ (forſooth) lyke a verye leude and foolyſhe perſon, for that he ſette all the felicitie and pleaſure of man in the delectation of the bely, and glotonye, deſired but only too ſytte at ſuche a table all the dayes of hys life, Iupiter graunted him his deſire, and ſhortly his vow was there ſtabliſhed and ratifyed. Tantalus nowe ſytteth at the table furnyſhed wyth all kindes of delicates, ſuch drinke as the goddes druncke of was ſet on the table, and there wanted no rooſes nor odours that could yeoue any ſwete ſmel before the Goddes, Ganymedes the buttler or one lyke vnto hym, ſtandeth euer redye, the Muſes ſtande rounde aboute ſyngyng pleaſauntly, mery Silenus daunſeth, ne • ther wanted noo fooles too laugh at, and breuely, there there was euerye thynge that coulde delyght any ſence of mā but emongiſt all theſe, Tantalus ſytteth all ſadde, ſyghyng, and vnquiet with hym ſelfe, neither laughing nor yet touching ſuch thynges as were ſet before hym

What was the cauſe?

Ouer his head as he ſate there hāged by an hecre a great ſtone euer lyke too fall.

I woulde then haue conueied my ſelfe from ſuche a table.

But his vowe had bound hym too the contrarye, for Iupyter is not ſo eaſye too intreate as oure GOD, which dooeth vnlooſe the pernitious vowes of menne, that bee made contrary vnto his holy woord, if thei bee penitent and ſorye therfore, or elles it myght bee thus, the ſame ſtoone that woulde not ſuffer hym too eate, would neither ſuffer hym to ryſe, for if he had but ones moued he ſhuld haue been quaſhed al in peeſes with the fall thereof.

You haue ſhewed a very mery fable

But nowe heare that thing, which you wil not laugh at: the commune people ſeeke too haue a pleaſaunt life in out warde thynges, where as noothyng can yeoue that, but onely a conſtant and a quiet mind: for ſurely a far heuier ſtone hangeth ouer theſe yt grudge with them ſelues, then hanged ouer Tantalus: it only hangeth not ouer them, but greueth and oppreſſeth the mynde, ne the mind is not troubled wyth any vayn hoope, but looketh euery houre to bee caſte in too the paynes of hell, I praye you what can bee ſo pleaſaunt emongiſt all thinges that bee yeouen vnto man, that coulde reioyſe the mynde, whyche were oppreſſed wyth ſuche a ſtoone?

Truely there is nothyng but madnes, or elles incredulitie.

Yf younge menne woulde weygh theſe thynges, that bee quyckly prouoked and entiſed with pleaſure as it were wyth the cuppe of Circes, whiche in ſteade of theyr greateſt pleaſures receiue poyſone myxte wyth honye. Howe circumſpecte would they bee too doo anye thynge vnaduiſedly yt ſhoulde grudge their mindes afterward? What thinge is it that thei would not doo too haue ſuche a godly treaſure in ſtore againſt their latter daies? that is a minde knowyng it ſelfe cleane & honeſt and a name that hath not been defiled at any time. But what thyng now is more miſerable then is agee? Whan it beholdeth, and loketh backward on thinges yt be paſt ſeeth plainly with great grudg of conſcience howe fayre thynges he hathe deſpiced and ſette lyght by, (that is, howe farre he hath diſcented and gone aſtray from the promyſes made vnto God in baptime) & agayn, how foule & noughty thīges he hath clipped and enbraced, and whā hee looketh forwarde, hee ſeeth then the daye of iudgemente drawe neere, and ſhortely after the eternall punyſhemente of of hell.

I eſteme theim moſt happie whych haue neuer defyled theyr youthe, but euer haue increaſed in vertu, til thei haue coomne vnto the laſt puincte of age.

Next them thei ar too bee commended that haue wythdrawne theim ſelues from the folie of youth in tyme.

But what councel wil you yeoue agee that is in ſuche great myſerie.

No man ſhoulde diſpayre ſo long as life endureth, I wyl exhorte him to flee for helpe vnto the infinitie mercye & gentilnes of God.

But the longer yt he hath liued the heape of his ſynnes hath euer waxen greate and greater, ſo that nowe it paſſeth the nomber of the ſandes in the ſea,

But the mercies of our lord far excede thoſe ſādes, for although the ſande can not bee numbred of manne, yet hit hath an ende, but the mercie of God neither knoweth ende, ne meaſure.

Yea but he hath no ſpace that ſhall dye by and by,

The leſſe tyme he hath the more feruētly he ſhould cal vnto god for grace, that thyng is long inough before God, whiche is of ſuche power as too aſcende from the yearth vnto heauē, for a ſhort prayer forſoth ſtreght entreth heauē, if it bee made with a vehemēt ſpirit. It is written, ye 〈1 page missing〉 ye womā ſynner ſpoken of in the goſpell did penaunce al her life dayes: but with how fewe wordes again did the thief obtain Paradiſe in the houre of death? If he will crye with hearte and mynde, God haue mercie on me after thy great mercie: God wil take awaye from hym Tantalus ſtone and yeoue in his hearyng ioye and cōfort and his bones humiled throughe cōtrition, wil reioyſe that he hath his ſynnes for yeouen hym.